Conference napalm::guitar

    
    	Well, gee, if it wasnt such a PIA to do so, I'd have the signal
    from the guitar go into the A/D, then the computer would take that
    and turn it into something else, then it would come out the D/A,
    through the amp and finially, to the speaker. <Whew!>
    
    	...with "something else" being any_thing_you_wanted
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    As I said in a previous note, I use the Shultz Rock-Modules for
    guitar effects (see #6).  Basically, these modules provide a variety
    of options of processing the signal, including compression, a "smart"
    noise gate, channel switching, a variety of clean and distorted
    sounds, stereo chorus, and up to 1/4 second digital delay.
    
    Before I had that setup, I used a Digitech digital delay (footswitch
    with up to a full second of delay) and a Boss flanger.  I was not
    very happy with the Digitech delay, but the Boss flanger sounded
    great!

    
    
    I have a pile of toys that I used to use alot.  Everything from
    flangers to octave dividers.  A little over a year ago I bought
    an Ibanez HD-1500 Harmonizer/delay and now all my other toys
    are sitting in a pile collecting dust.  The HD-1500 will do
    just about any delay based effect from flanging and chorus to
    doubleing and on up to 540 ms of delay.  Plus my favorite part
    of all, it harmonizes.
         One particular effect I use it alot for is doubleing.  But
    instead of the standard doubling you'd get from a dig-delay, I
    put it in the harmonizer mode and detune it just slightly.  With
    a little bit of modulation added in, you can get a much more
    realistic double.  For the money ($525 with foot controller) its
    a pretty versatile piece of equipment.  Still wish I could afford
    an Evantide though.
    
    Ralph
    

    I'm not real big into special effects.  I just like to use stuff
    that just sorta beefs up the sound a bit.
    
    At the moment I'm using exactly two things:
    
    1) A Morley Vol-Wah.   I use it mainly as a volume pedal (it cuts
       the highs out less than my volume control) but I also use the
       volume pedal to do swells when I don't feel like doing it with
       my pinky.   Occasionally I use the wah-wah effect but not to
       go "wah-wah", more just to add a little expression on a sustained
       note.   Once in a very great while I will turn on both the wah
       and fuzz just because it gives you this great expanding power
       effect on a power chord.
    
    2) A Deltalab ADM-1024.   I'm very big into DDL.  I use all the
       standard things like chorus and flange, but I also love copping
       and inventing DDL tricks.   I really love using this box.
    
    	db

    I use an Ibanez Tube screamer and an >Ibanez Dm-1000 digital delay.
    they're ok but getting to be old technology now....
    
    I remember a numer of years ago, taking a TTL schmitt triggered
    inverter IC (74??) and hooking it to the output of an op amp that
    I drove with my guitar, wow you talk about distortion!! It may have
    been one of the earliest attempts at a guitar synth :-) Nowq if
    you just drive that through a d flop to count it down you'd get
    an octave divider.......
    
    dave

    We can really show our age by the number of floor model, battery-
    operated effects boxes we have.
    
    I just sold an old mxr digital delay, a.c., floor model.
    and I sold an ibanez stereo chorus. battery operated, ac adapter,
    flor model.
    and I still own a relaly old wah wah that just goes hsssssssssssss
    and I had my girl friend (for my birthday!) buy me an ibanez phaser,
    floor model, battery/ac adapter, that has great little sounds but
    is very NOISY. I was working with a friend on an old tune I wrote
    a long time ago...(which is why it's an old tune) and when we were
    done, we had everything on the 4 track except any kind of leads.
    so....i plugged the mike into this box and started blowing and humming
    and hissing (in time and sequence to the tune, of course) and laid
    this down as a lead track. It sounded so .....weird...yet fit! that
    I added anotehr layer to it and....voila!....synthesized voice!
    I play it for my friends and they say...hey...you don't have a synth..
    what is that sound?..I haven't told anyone what it is. except right
    now, i've told you. so let's keep it secret.
    
    I have an ibanez tube screamer that really only sounds ok in
    conjunction with my marshall.
    
    and an ibanez analog delay that is...ok...
    
    just like yours, dave b., my toys are getting dated. and they are
    all noisy compared to the new stuff.
    
    after I get my compressor and drum machine and cz101 and a sequencer
    and a recording contract i'll start upgrading my effects with the
    newer technology.
    
    oh, i also have a rack mounted spring reverb that really makes my
    4 track sing. without it, i'd go into plumbing.
    
    rik
    

    The on-board reverb in my Fender Pro amp is always set at about
    7-8. Dry just doesn't sound right.
    
    As for toys...(he who dies with the most effects wins?)
    
    I used to wander into Daddy's frequently and buy any old used effect
    that sounded 'interesting' - just about everything made by EH. After
    a while I decided that they all sounded cheap and noisy and thus
    sold the lot back to Daddy's in exchange for the BOSS carry case/power
    supply and a Stereo Chorus. As time passed the case got full of
    other 'quality' BOSS pedals - compress/sustain, overdrive (a Strat
    needs one to sound dirty - kinda like Clapton), and the new(?) digital
    delay.
    
    The above satisfy my needs - I used to use effects for the sake
    of it (tsk tsk), but now use them mainly to replicate the sound
    I need for a certain tune (e.g. chorus/compress for Men At Work
    stuff). Really love the BOSS stuff - good quality.
    
    I also just got a BOSS volume pedal 'cos I'm lousy at pinky volume
    control management...

    My ex bought me a Boss Phaser a few years ago as a Birthday present
    and since that time I've been sold on the Boss stuff.  Recently I've
    picked up the compresor/sustain, flanger, power supply and carrying
    case.  I hardly use the phaser anymore (with the exception of the
    swirling sound the phaser and flanger sound nearly alike to my ear).
    Also, I tend to get a dramatic increase in volume with the phaser
    on line.  The flanger is the neatest toy I've bought in a long time.
    I play my acoustic through it as well as my electric.  It gives
    the acoustic a very full and warm sound that is other wise hard
    to get with dry amplification.  The Boss stuff is very quiet and
    the carrying case is very handy, don't have to worry about where
    I lost all my patch chords.  The power supply is handiest of all,
    it's saved me a lot of money on 9 volt batteries plus it's a very
    handy (footsie) way of adding or subtracting all the effects at
    one switch.  Next, a dig delay.
    
    =ken

    A side issue concerning effects...
    
    I've noticed that the 'total' effect of chaining a bunch of boxes
    together can vary a lot dependant upon the 'order' you chain them.
    For example, a dig delay into a chorus gives a different result
    as opposed to the chorus into the dig delay. Similarly for other
    combinations. My current daisy chain is as follows:-
    
    input -> overdrive -> delay -> chorus -> sustain/compress -> noise
    gate -> output
    
    The delay into chorus hookup sounded fuller than the other way around.
    Also I set the compress limit value such that the output level is
    the same regardless of whether other effects (particularly the
    overdrive) are 'in-circuit' or not. This is a good fix for the
    situation mentioned in .8 where an effect can increase the volume.
    
    I have found that wth the Strat volume set at about 7-8 that there
    is no noticeable 'clamping' of the volume level by the compressor.
    With the axe volume at 10, the volume level is the same (audible
    result) but there is a nice (?) clunk-kinda sound due to the compressor.
                  
    The noise gate is a good idea also - dependant upon how you set
    the 'sensitivity' and 'gate response speed' it will successfully
    lose any noise generated by (say) an overdrive box, and/or the increase
    in noise (hiss) that a number of chained boxes seem to generate.
    
    Jimi

    I agree with Jimi...I too noticed different sound when interchanging
    pedals.  Sometimes I couldn't figure out why it sounded so muffled
    at times.  Live and learn...
    
    					Phil                                

    re: .9
    
    Thanks for the advice.  I got home and immediatly shuffled my
    peddles around and it fixed the problem.  It even gave me a better
    sound when using the flanger with the phaser.  Gee, this solution
    was so simple I don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner.
    Thanks again.
    
    =ken

    I've used some toys out of the MXR line, as well as the MORLEY volume
    boost I still own (and would gladly sell!). I've even gone to the
    extent of using line drivers, but I still wasn't satisfied. I just
    could not get rid of the MESS (hiss, crack, fade, howl, squeal...).
    
    I've tried other brands in some shops, they don't do much for me,
    either. I've finally found the one thing I was missing, my GUITAR.
    Not always noticable under low volume, but compare the difference
    with and without TOYS at HIGH volume. I even had one guy from that
    school in Vermont? telling me I should put these things RIGHT IN
    MY GUITAR! No thanks...
    
    My experience says to leave the guitar alone, feed it through a decent
    amp, and let the PA handle the necessary effects. Your sound is
    guaranteed, and you can run free, not worrying about hitting that
    little button while your on your back or running accross the stage.
    
    This leads to the one TOY I will get (if it doesn't hinder natural
    sound), a transmitting device! This way I can still run and jump
    without tripping on the !$@$!%$E$ cord!
    
    Andy
    
    

33
    BOSS DISTORTION,ROLAND JC 120,MXR PHASER+SKILL MAKE MY DAY

    
    Hows about a vote for the Cry Baby Wah pedal.  I have one and I
    swear by it.  Sure it does produce some hiss but my amp is too quiet
    anyway :-).
    
    ZR

    re: -1
    
       I recently heard a crybaby wah, and fell in love with it.  Adds
    a real nice tone to the sound..not to mention what it does when
    you wah it a bit!  I've recently added a few more goodies to my
    toychest...
    
    	Arion Metal Master (pure filth)
        Arion Parametric EQ
        Ovation Flanger
    
    plus I had these already...
    
        Nady Disortion/Chorus (nice jet age sound)
        Aria Analog Delay
    
    Plug these into a line, and watch out...can't even hear the amp!
    
    					Phil
    

    	I have been using BOSS floor pedals for the last few years and
    they have performed nicely. I am currently running as follows:
    
    INPUT>--<SUS/COMP>--<PHASER>--<FLANGER>--<OCTAVE>--<OUTPUT>--
    
    I occasionally throw my MRX 7 band equalizer in for confusion. The
    only problem I have encountered is that my phaser has a tendency
    to eat batteries a bit quicker than my other pedals when exposed
    to equal playing time.
    
    Don

    ANY ONE KNOW THE BEST WAY TO SET UP THESE EFFECTS
    1 DELAY
    2 PHASER 
    3 VOLUME PEDAL
    4 DISTORTION
    5 CORUS
    I have tried in a few diff. combinations-now im open to suggestions
    Thanks    JT

    
    Well, its usually good practice to put `Gain' effects first in the
    chain, and `delay' effects last...that way the gain adding effects
    won't boost the noise generally generated by the delay-type effects.
    
    My chain would be:
    
    Dist - Chorus - Delay - Phaser - Volume Pedal
    
    or
    
    Dist - Volume - Chor - Delay - Phaser
    
    wjb

    Yeah, what Bill said...
    
    Distortion -->  Chorus --> Phase --> Delay --> Volume
    
    Fiddle with putting the Phaser either early in the path, for a subtle
    effect, or late in the path for a big swoosh effect.  I have more
    than 1 phaser for either effect.  (actually I have 3, but that's
    another story).

    
    If you are using a stereo chorus with two amps, you will probably want to
    put the chorus at the end of the chain. That way you will get the
    same signal sent to each amp.
    
    -bs
    

Having played acoustic guitars for some years, I'm just branching out into 
electrics and I'd like some help on effects pedals. A couple of questions:

1)	What should I start with - delay, chorus, distortion etc.? Ideally, 
	I'd like to have a bit of everything, but I don't want to pay the 
	earth.

2)	I'm based in Geneva, but I get over to the Boston area occasionally,
	so where are the best music stores in the Boston area (as I assume
	prices will be less in the US than in Switzerland)?

I'll be over at the end of this month for a meeting in Acton, so I'd be 
grateful of some replies before then. Thanks.

Cheers,
Dave

    The effects you need depend largely on what kind of music you want
    to play.   I would suggest that, if you're interested in any sort
    of rock, a good distortion pedal would be a primary choice.  After
    that, I'd want either a chorus or a delay.  Both can add nice effects
    to almost any musical style you choose.  
    
    I work in Acton at the Piper Rd. plant (ACO).   If you get a chance,
    stop in when you come to the States and we can talk.  
    
    	Ted Mariani

    Like Ted said, it depends a lot on what you will be playing.  My first
    choice for an effect would be a high quality delay.  This can perform a
    variety of functions, flanging, chorus, doubling, and echo.  Something
    like this (Digitech PDS-2002) can be had for just over $100 (US). It is
    also applicable to almost all styles of music. 
    
    A distortion unit would also be a good choice, plus, there are soooooo
    many on the market, the prices are relatively low.  I've seen MANY
    distortion boxes for under $50 (US). 
    
    If you do recording, a compression device can be invaluable for
    maintaining consistant levels.  Note that the effect is fairly subtle
    and will not significantly change your sound. 
                                                 
    gh
    

    Ditto .1 and .2 - it all depends on what style you prefer to play. One
    thing to perhaps bear in mind is that certain effects become trendy every
    now and then (e.g. chorus a while ago, distortion at the moment). This
    has two effects (no pun intended !) - firstly the amount of choice in the
    'trendy' effect range goes up (everyone starts making them) and the price
    comes down, and secondly the price on 'non-trendy' effect units tends to 
    come down.

    As an example of this, I recently picked up a phaser (remember them ?) for
    a real bargain price - the thing was so dusty it was obvious that no-one
    had even picked it up and looked at it for ages ! (A wah-wah's next on the
    list).

    I suppose the moral of the story is - try everything out in your local shops
    (even if you're not sure what the effect is), and then look for bargains in 
    the States. 


    Happy hunting !!

        Derek.

    
    In the $500-$600 range, and fairly funky, is the new Boss ME5.
    Tom Desrochers had one with him at the Sweatjam and I checked
    them out in Union Music. It sits on the floor, and has 6 stomp
    switches. It is a toned-down version of the GP8. It can hold
    64 programs. There are 64 factory settings, which can be changed,
    or recalled any time. Each program can have up to 5 effects turned on at
    a time. The effects available are compression, distortion/overdrive,
    chorus/flange, reverb/delay, and EQ (the eq is always on, so you
    can choose between the other four sounds). 
    
    The big differances between the ME5 and the GP8 are
    
    	1. The GP8 is rackmount. Foot controller is $200 option.
    	2. GP8 has an envelope follower/wah-wah
    	3. ME5 accomidates the expression pedal, but obviously controls
    	limited functions compared to GP8.
    	4. GP8 lists for $899 + $200 (foot control) versus the ME5 list
    price of $699 + $30 (for an FSL5 foot switch needed to switch groups.
    This is the only quirk the unit has, is that you need an optional
    foot switch to switch groups).
                                  
    
    There are advantages to having the whole unit on the floor. Less
    cabling and gear to carry around and set up. The unit appears to
    be built like a battleship, so it should hold up on stage. It seems
    to have very good sound quality comparable to the GP8. I'm considering 
    eventually getting one. It does all I would ever need. The 64 programs
    are arranged in 4 groups of 4 banks, with 4 programs in each bank.
    Lets say you wanted to use it with 4 differant instruments. You
    could program four sounds for your strat, four for your les paul,
    four for your accoustic, four for something else. The possibilites
    are endless. Very flexible and very easy to access differant sounds.
    
    It may be out of your pricerange, but check it out anyways.
    
    Mark Jacques
     
    
    
    
    

    
    	I presently use a series of effects pedals running into two
    amps. The setup looks like this:
    
       Amp1 <----
                !
                ---- Stereo <-- Delay <-- Phaser <-- Dist <-- Input
                ---- Chorus
                !
       Amp2 <----
    
    
    	This setup sends identical signals to both amps, and produces
    a stereo chorus effect with the chorus on.
    
    	I would like to replace the delay box with a stereo delay unit,
    but I am not sure how to set up my signal chain. Both the stereo
    chorus and the stereo delay have dual outputs. Both amps have only
    one input. Do I need a mixer for one amp, or is this setup impossible?
    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
    
    thanks in advance .... bruce
                    

    
    Well, first off its possible, however:
    
    It sounds like you're using floor pedals.  They're ok, but to 
    do BOTh stereo chor and delay you'd need a mixer, like a rane
    or a yamaha or something.  You's feed both stereo signals into the
    mixer, then pan each side to a final left and right output. The
    mixer out would go to the two amps.
    
    To do it cheaply, I'd do it this way --
    
    Get a stereo delay, and patch it:
    
    Amp1 <--
           |
           |----Stereo--chorus---phase--dist--guit 
    Amp2 <--    Delay  (in mono)
    
    This way the chorus isn't true stereo, however the delay is, so
    it would be like simulated stereo chorus when the delay and chorus
    were on together.  
    
    Buck
    
    

    Suggestions:
    
    	1) Trash the stereo chorus and use the new stereo delay to
    	   do chorus.  Of course, this means you can't do chorus
    	   and other delay effects simultaneously
    
    	2) Get a mixer with lots of mono send/stereo return effects
    	   loops - like the Roland M-160.
    
    	3) Being that the last three devices in your signal chain
    	   are all delay effects, why not just get a stereo
    	   multi-effects processor?  That is, an effects box that can
    	   do several types of delay effects simultaneously.
    
    	   These are easier to deal with cause they allow you to set up
    	   "programs" (sounds) which makes it easier to go from one
    	   sound to another.
    
    	   Or are you deeply committed to using noisey low-bandwidth
    	   stomp boxes?
    
    	db

    Can someone tell me which is the correct set up?  I have a Midiverb
    II and DoD distortion box.  I tried both ways; plug the guitar to
    the Midiverb out of Midiverb into Distortion box and the other way
    first into the box then into the Midiverb.  When I go to the box
    first, it seems the Midiverb cleans up some of the distortion (or
    is this my imagination).  What is the right way of doing this?
    Also are there any tricks I can use to get even greater sound
    combinations out of these two.  Last but not least, can you give
    me a general help on what effect to use when?  (i.e. there are over
    30 reverb set ups and I can't see how each and every one of them
    can be used and sound different).  Appreciate your comments.
    
    Hamid (the newly Fender Strat look-alike owner)

    Typically you would put something like a delay effect or reverb
    AFTER distortion.
    
    But really the answer to this question is another question:
    
    	Which do you PREFER?
    
    That is the "correct" one.
    
      db

    One more,
    
    I bought the DoD distortion box because it had a good reputation
    and the price was right.  But I get this hi buzzing sound when I
    activate the pedal, before I play anything - that is when the gain
    is set up 75% and above.  Is this normal?
    Also, Is DoD distortion box (Red) considered a good one? and what
    is the difference (that I can tell) between it and a let's say a
    more expensive one.  What are the some of more expensive one that
    you'd recommend?  Thanks,
    
    Hamid,

    .1
    Did I imagine the sound come out cleaner after Midiverb?  Does Midiverb
    clean the signal digitally?
    hh

    
    RE: .0
    
    FOr serveral audio reasons, most people put any `gain' effects before
    `dealy'-type effects (that includes flangers, chorus units, delays,
    reverbs).  I know what you are talking about where the midiverb `cleans
    up' your sound.  I have not firgured out why, but what I have been
    doing lately is getting a real gruncgy marshall tone and putting
    through a digital reverb/chorus unit to `clean it up'. Sounds nice to
    moi. 
    
    Buck

    The buzzing you get is just interference picked up because there's
    such a gain boost, I believe(That's my rationale for my distortion
    buzzing, the amp is silent when it's off.)
    
    DOD effects are decent.  My freind has that distortion and it's
    served him faithfully for a long time.  I have an Ibanez fat cat,
    which is a *real* screamer(up to 60db gain, same as pro-co RAT)...
                              
    Something tells me Ibenhad put that out as direct competition for
    the rat. (fat cat, rat? hmm.)
    
    BOSS is considered one of(if not *the*) best producers of stomp
    boxes. Primarily, because it's a Roland effect with 'boss' tacked
    on it.  But you also pay for the name, it's been a while since I've
    seen a boss effect under $100...
    
    Hope this clears some fog.
    
    /c
    

    
    Also, if your git has single coil pickups, the gain will be boosting
    all the undesirable qualities of the pickup (as in 60 cycle hum, etc).
    
    yet more input from
    Buck 

    I'll second the favorable endorsement of Boss pedals.  I use a Boss
    OD-2 Turbo Overdrive for distortion and it's great.  Price was 92.50,
    but that was awhile ago.  Boss makes several distortion pedals which
    range from very soft 'tube' distortion effects to ultra-hard metal.
    Another advantage of Boss pedals is that in addition to producing
    a good sounding effect, they also have built in noise reduction
    circuitry.  This enables them to boost gain more while generating
    less noise than many other makes I've tried in stores. 

    I think with a Digital delay, it converts the analog signal into
    a digital signal. It gets processed and then gets converted back
    into a Analog signal. When it gets converted back, it loses some
    frequencies.
    
    
                        /D.J.
                 

    I'm also told that the 'Rolls Royce' of distortion units is the
    Chandler Tube Distortion.  I've not tried one out, but friends
    who have give very favorable reviews. The down side is that they
    are prohibitively expensive (approx. $250.00). One friend felt
    that for that much money, he'd rather up the ante a bit and go
    for a low-end Mesa preamp which would provide greater flexibility
    over and above tube distortion.

    If your amp has an effects loop, I would try the following:
    
    	Connect your guitar into the distortion, then into the amp
    
    	connect the midiverbII into the efx loop.
    
    The reason I say this is because most efects loops run on line
    levels. The midiverbII can handle an instrument level, but it
    prefers to see a line level because the input preamp doesn't have
    to produce so much gain.  If you connect the distortion effect
    after the midiverbII, and you crank up the input and output gains
    on the midiverbII, you can overdrive the hell out of the distortion
    unit because it is designed to run on instrument levels. 
    
    Just to give you an idea what the diferance is between line and
    instrument levels, a stock Gibson humbucking pickup produces 
    ~80mv rms. Line level signals are ~1v rms.
                                             
    I hope you have the mix control on the MidiverbII set at the center
    around 5. This way you are hearing ~50% dry signal, and 50% wet signal.
    Using the unit this way should not wash-out the distortion effect
    as badly and it also makes the effects sound better.
    
    Mark Jacques
    
    

    I've tried a Chandler and it has a very good (IMO) sound.  The stomp
    box version is not so expensive, around $130 or so typically.  Real
    Tube makes a similar unit.
    
    Greg

    re: .2
    
    I would tend to doubt that the MIDIVERB has anything in it specifically
    designed to "clean up" the sound.  They wouldn't do anything to
    change the tone, (it's used for other things besides guitars you
    see).
    
    However processing section on it almost certain EQs the sound a little
    bit before feeding it to the reverb part but it ONLY does this
    for the "wet" part of the signal.
    
    You see, what the unit does is generate a signal that is ONLY
    reverb and then mixes that signal with the input signal.
    
    You can control that "mix" with the mix knob on the front panel.
    
    Chances are you will find that "cleanup" effect to be most dramatic
    as the mix becomes more "wet" (more reverb) and none existent as
    you turn the knob towards "dry".   That's because the pre-EQ being
    done for the reverb has more effect in the wet position.
    
    You could probably achieve the same effect without any reverb
    by using a regular EQ.  Shaping the tone of distortion devices
    is a very common use of EQ.
    
    	db

    	I agree with the noter who replied earlier. If you have an FX loop
    (post master) I would run the Midiverb through the loop and run
    the distortion direct from the guitar to the front of the amp. I'ne
    experimented with the REX50 and a tube screamer/EQ combo and discovered
    after painstaking experimentation you get the best sound all around
    runing it that way.
    
    
        						Brian

    I tried a Pro Co. Ratt rack unit the other day...It sounded pretty
    cool, and had two switchable channels...Does that make it more of
    a pre-amp ?  I dunno, but it sounded good.
    
    jc(who_owned_an_mxr_for_years!)

    Tony -
    
    I'd recommend you try them both out and listen for *noise*.
    I own a Boss DD-3 and would highly recommend it.  When I bought
    mine I tried several (not the yahama) and chose the Boss because
    it seemed to have a 'cleaner' delayed sound (could be my imagination).
    
    If the Yahama 'quality of sound' is not inferior, you might as well
    go for it and save the bucks you would otherwise be paying for the
    Boss name.
    
    Steve

    
    Yeah, I tried out the Yamaha yesterday and I quite liked it.  I'll
    try out the boss today and make a decision.
    
    I'll let you know what I choose.

    On deciding between delays:
    
    Delay is delay is delay.  It's not like a distortion pedal where there
    each unit has its own unique character.  The very best delays should
    sound exactly alike when set to the same settings.
    
    The principle things you look for in a delay are:
    
    	o Signal quality
    
    	o Longest delay time
    
    	o Features (presets, MIDI, control features, etc.)
    
    Now this applies ONLY to dedicated delays.  There are major
    differences between boxes dedicated to specific delay applications like
    chorus, phase-shifting, etc.
    
    That is generally speaking, in the absence of signal degradation all
    delays sound alike, but that is NOT true for things like chorus units.
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  I mentioned this, cause I know of a digit who once traded a high
          end delay for a cheaper delay because he thought the cheaper
    	  delay sounded better.   The truth was that he just didn't like
    	  the factory presets of the hi-end one as much and had no idea
    	  that he could have created settings that would have sounded
    	  the same as on the presets on the cheaper unit.

    I also think you should think about the freq. response too.
    
    A lot of the effected signals get chopped off above 16Khz.
    20-20Khz is the cats meow!

    jc

    
    The deal with frequency response is not that anyone can really
    appreciate the stuff above 16K (your dog maybe) so much as that
    a fact of life in audio reproduction is that where you start getting
    frequency rolloffs you also get phase shifting happening, that "smears"
    the high end (this is a large part of the problem most folks experience
    with cassettes).
    
    Take a graphic EQ sometiome and try boosting the stuff above 10K
    while cutting everything else out and you may be surprised what you
    actually hear up there!!!

    P.S. You may not know that FM stereo bandwidth is limited to 15KHz.
    I don't know too many folks who bitch about "limited" bandwidth
    of their stereo receiver....
    
    

    Good point, but I wonder why when I use my FX, (which cut out at
    16K) the highs seem to get muted.  I cut the effect off, and everything
    is bright and happy again.
    
    ?

    
    There's a lot that goes on in an effects unit that can degrade high
    end.  Among them:
    
    1.  When doing things like chorusing, flanging, etc. the frequency
    notches that give the effect its sound actually cancel out certain
    frequencies.  Even straight delay can cause phase cancellations
    resulting in weakened high end.

    2.  The input impedance of the unit...it may load down your guitar
    signal enough to cause loss of high end (a common problem with stomp
    boxes).
    
    3.  A non-flat preamp stage....to create a more "musical" effect,
    the box may be adding some EQ to the signal which causes less high
    end.
    
    4.  Psycho-acoustics....I own a cheap analog delay unit and if I
    set the mix to all "dry" (no delay) it sounds about the same as
    when the effect is off, when I mix in the delayed signal, because
    the delay has less highs (I'd guess nothing above about 6KHz) the
    "wetter" I make it, the duller the *overall* sound gets.  This *is*
    a legitimate beef about the frequency response of the unit.

    Jeff,
    
    I've never seen a Pro Co Ratt *RACK*. I can recomend the stomp box
    though ( and boy you gotta stomp ). The only thing I found was the
    need for something like a Boss GE-7 to give it a bit more Ballz
    at lower Volumes. The Filter is a nice touch.
    
    One point though - the recomended settings that come with the Stomp
    Box are to say the least B@#$SH^T.
    
    Bonzo

RE < Note 1134.7 by NEEPS::IRVINE "Night Time is my Best Time..." >

>    One point though - the recomended settings that come with the Stomp
>    Box are to say the least B@#$SH^T.

	Does that mean they are good or bad?

	Dan

    
    
    
    	OK, so I've got this teeny weeny little amp by Fender that
    absolutely "cranks" when it's set to clean (master-10, gain-0,
    volume-5-7)
    
                                     BUT
    
    	When I set Gain to 10 and volume to 10 (to get distortion),
    I can only get to about 1.5 before the amp starts to whine with
    feedback (hmmmm... my boss gives me whiny feedback sometimes too)
    I like the sound but I'm not satisfied with the volume....
    
    
    	If I buy one of these "stomp boxes" could I then set the amp
    to clean and loud and just "stomp" to get my guts to jiggle, or
    will I still get whiny feedback???
    
    
    
    Steve
    
    B&llS#@T = Not cool
    

    Steve back off the gains a bit and see what you can get out of it
    for volume, With my small fender I can't run the dist channel at
    wow without major feedback, I can still get a great distorted sound
    by backing off to avoid feedback...
    
    dbii

    As a side note, I use 2 distortion stomp boxes (one that I designed
    & an Ibanez). One is for rythem sounds, the other is for guitar solos
    & I occasionally use both together. They are wired in series with each
    other, at the tail end of 4 or more other stomp boxes (before the delay
    stomp box).

    RE .9 --- I usually set a fairly clean sound on my Twin Reverb, and
              use the distortion boxes to get the effect I want. I have a
	      sterio chorus unit right before the distortion pedals, with
	      one output going to the P.A. Th the other to my Twin Reverb.
	      

								Jens

    RE: .8
    
    It means that the recomended settings or not good!
    
    It took me about three weeks of experiment + a GE-7 to get anything
    like the distortion I was looking for.
    
    Bonzo

I have a question that maybe one the gurus here can answer:

As far as I understand it, a compressor helps to keep the volume levels 
constant, rather than having them go up and down (such as when a singer moves 
towards and/or away from a mike). 

I can see the value of this on a whole PA, where you want the output to be at 
a fairly constant volume level. But why would you want this on a guitar and/or 
any other individual instrument - doesn't this take away a lot of the dynamics 
that occur in a live band situation? Or am I misunderstanding the whole thing?

Alan S.

>> doesn't this take away a lot of the dynamics 

    Well, yes it can do if over-used *but* it has at least two useful
    applications ;
    	
    	increased sustain - you can use a compressor to give you massive
    	 		    sustain *without* requiring distortion 
                            ( almost infinite with lots of both ).
    
    	quality - if your playing is a little 'scruffy' or if you're
                  trying something fairly testing on stage ( a good
    		  e.g. would be a section of multi-fingered tapping)
    	          a compressor will help hide any "fluffs" and make
    	    	  all your notes the same volume.
    
    For the above reason they're a real no no for practising 'cos you'll
    miss everything you need to work on - but for live... if you just
    want to be sure...
    
    Dave.

    They are very useful for bassists as the natutal volume levela of
    a bass guitar is not uniform over it's entire frequency spectrum.
    The compressor works very nicely to flatten out these resonances.
    
    Jim
    

    I've been getting fed up with my RAT distortion, and was looking
    for some idea's...  
    
    I had thought about the Boss DF-2, but would not use a HM-2...
    
    Anyone got any ideas for a stomp box that gives a sorta gentler
    distortion as opposed to the RAT's ballz to the Wall type of
    distortion.
    
    Bob

RE < Note 22.21 by NEEPS::IRVINE "Never underestimate, the power of human stupidity" >

	Try one of the units that have a tube in it.  I have a REALTUBE Blue 
Tube that I like, and have tried several of the others (Tube Driver, Overlord,
etc.).  The Blue Tube was originally made for bass, but many guitarists like to
use it for a "kinder, gentler" distortion.  I like it because it will play clean
when I play soft and will add a subtle bite when I bear down.

	Dan

    RE:  .21
    
    I use the Ibanez tube screamer and am really pleased with it.  It's a
    model TS-10 and it emulates a tube amp type distortion.
    
    I got it used from Daddy's for $29; I bought it sound unheard/sight
    unseen thru the mail and have had months of trouble free use out of it.
    It has a very warm sound, good sustain, and just the right amount of
    distortion for the "classic" sound I want. (we play songs by Bad
    Company, Bachman Turner, Cream, etc)
    
    Steve

    I second the recommendation of Ibanez's Tube Screamer.  I'm a tube
    amp fanatic, and the TS is the only solid state distortion pedal I've
    ever been happy with.  Some folks claim that the old ones (silver
    stomp button) sound better than the newer ones (black textured stomper)
    but don't believe it.  There is a slight difference between the
    two, but I don't think either one is "better" (fwiw, Stevie Ray uses
    one of the newer versions).
    
    /rick

    Rick,
    
    My TS-10 is a weird lime green....is it "newer"?  Just curious, 'cause
    I love the nature of it!
    
    Steve

    "weird lime" sounds like the old style, although both are green.
    The surest way to tell is the stomp button; silver = old.

    My stomp button is black......must be a new one.
    
    Thanks

    Just a quick note...
    
    Thanks to all who responded for help on the delay unit.  A generous
    noter has come forward to offer his unit.
    
    Thanks again to all...
    B.

    
    
      New FX alert...Potential wallet drainer fer shure.....
    
    
        Alesis Quadraverb GT
    
       Quadraverb with a guitar pre-amp in it. Just saw the blurb in the
    new GP rag.
    
      
    
    
    
    RichC
    

    That's been out for a while (at least it was announced a while ago).

    I'm considering buying some effects, and I was wondering if anyone
    could recommend price ranges and manufacturers. I'm looking at getting
    a wah/volume pedal and some kind of digital delay. What do you suggest?
    
    BTW, I play mostly blues with a little rock thrown in occasionally.
    
    Thanks,
    Tom

	Tom,

	I guess some important questions are:

	1  Where are you going to use them?
	     i.e. in a home studio, jamming with friends, playing on the
	     street, frequent gigs, etc.  Depending on the type of use the
	     effects are going to get, you may want to go with individual
	     pedals, pedal boards, rack effects or studio quality rack jobs.

	2  What are the "must have" effects you're looking for?
	     I'd love to have every single effect under the sun, but I'd
	     probably *really want* a delay and a bit of distortion.  Depending
	     on your playing style, you might prefer chorus over distortion,
	     etc.

	3  What's your budget like?
	     Naturally, you don't have $$ to waste - my advice would be to
	     buy the best sound quality you can afford.  A *clean* digital
	     delay with limited capabilties will last you longer than a
	     6-in-1 box that has a poor S/N ratio.

	If you're limited to spending about $100 per effect, I'd go in
	for Boss or Digitech pedals.  You can get some *excellent* deals in
	the Want Ads and right here in this conference!

	If you have about $300 to spend, you could pick up a multi-pedal
	board (like the ones made by Korg, ADA, Boss, etc.).  Personally,
	I'd stay away from these; I think their construction (some are all
	plastic) and sound quality isn't all that hot.

	If you can spend between $300 and $500 (and you don't need to run
	on batteries), I'd go in for a decent rack effect made by Boss,
	Roland, Digitech, etc.  There are many to choose from - before you
	buy, be sure to read the reviews in magazines and this conference.

	Dealers:  I've been very happy with Caruso's in New London, CT.
	They've had the best prices.  If Daddy's can match or beat them,
	I'd go there.  Musician's Friend is good for their catalog and
	their 30day return policy, though their prices (even when you
	bargain) are pretty high.

	My experience, for what it's worth:

	- Started out with a basic fuzz box (volume and distortion controls)
	  and a wah-wah pedal (we're talking 1972, here!).  Both were battery
	  powered and pretty noisy.

	- Dumped the fuzz box for an MXR Distortion+, bought an Ibanez
	  compressor and a EH Small Stone phase shifter.  All battery
	  powered and not too noisy.  Sold the wah-wah.

	- Bought a EH MicroSynth (which died on me) and a Talking Pedal
	  which I didn't really use.  These were both impulse buys.

	- Bought a Radio Shack digital reverb for $39 - battery powered and
	  very noisy.  Still, I wanted *delay* !

	- Wanted a flanger - decided to go digital and bought a Digitech
	  PSD2020 (echo, flanger, chorus, infinite repeat).  I *love* this
	  pedal.  Eats up batteries, so switched to powering it via the
	  mains.

	- Sold the Radio Shack reverb and bought a used Boss RV2.  Also
	  runs on the mains and is pretty good for the price (paid $85).

	- Sold everything, except for the PSD2020, and bought the Boss SE50
	  Stereo Effects processor (distortion, compressor, enhancer,
	  pitch shifter, vocoder, reverb, delay, phase shifter, chorus
	  and flanger).

	Over the years, I've switched from playing Doors and Deep Purple
	covers in noisy places for very little money, to my own stuff
	(I try to imitate Knopfler's style) and using my effects sparingly
	while recording on my multi-track.

	Hope this helps - sorry if I ranted!

	/ravi

Article 10896 of alt.guitar:
Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!caen!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!cd.amdahl.com!drf40
From: drf40@cd.amdahl.com (Daryl Fortney)
Newsgroups: alt.guitar
Subject: GER - Guitar Effects Review
Date: 8 Dec 92 18:54:37 GMT

	I have found that many people out there are interested in different
guitar effects, but have no good means to compare them.  With this in mind,
a couple friends and I have come up with a standard template for you guys to
fill out if you have an effects unit (analog or digital, multi or single).
Once you have filled out the GER email it to me DRF40@CD.AMDAHL.COM and I will
compile a db for those who are looking to buy, or just plain interested.
Since it contains both subjective and objective fields, a good all around
comparison can be made.  Hopefully in a few weeks we will have multiple GERs
for each effect unit available.  Eventually this will be posted to an FTP
site.  This would be a very valuable resource to those netters who enjoy
the finer things in life, guitars.  Thanks alot, and keep jammin'!!!

-----Cut Here-----
        Guitar Effects Review #000

NAME: (Processor Name)
MANU: (Manufacturer)
RVSN: (Revision/Related To)

COST: (Cost/For What?)
AVAL: (Where can I buy it? Availability?)

Techncl: (Rating - **** Asterisk Rating)
        CONV: (AD/DA Converters)
        SAMP: (Sample Rate)
        RESL: (Resolution)
        I/O : (Inputs & Outputs & Levels)
        PACK: (Package Rack Spaces/Portable/Stomp Box)
        GNRL: (General Data)

Analog : (Rating)
        LIST: (Analog Effects)
        CHNL: (Channels)
        PAMP: (Pre-Amp?)
        TUBE: (Tubes Used?)
        POWR: (Power Amp?)

Digital: (Rating)
        LIST: (Digital Effects)
        PARM: (Parameters)
        CONN: (Connectivity)
        PRGM: (# ROM/# RAM)

Interfc: (Rating)
        DSPL: (Displays)
        CNTL: (Controls)
        FTSW: (Foot Switch)

General: (Rating)
        (How does it sound?)
        (Is it friendly or a pain in the ass?)
        (What are its good & bad points?)
        (Reliability? Construction?)
        (Recommendations / Set-up)

-----End Cut Here-----

	As you can see this template allows for pre-amp and power-amp reviews
also (not limited to just effects).  Any recommendations on changing the GER
should be send to me also.

-- 
Daryl Fortney 
drf40@cd.amdahl.com

	I'm still a beginner at guitar, but I've got a Boss-SE50 stereo effects
processor and it does about anything and everything.  It's got "true" stereo out-
put that sounds great!  I also use it for Vocals, trumpet, sax, or anything else.

	

	-Kyle

    
    
    	Hi,
    		I`ve read through this topic and tried a dir/tile,but
    can`t find any mention of Jim Dunlop FX.
    		I`m based in the UK and would be interested in comparing
    prices of the Dunlop Rotovibe - in the UK the last price I was quoted
    was just under 200 quid ~ $300.What is the current Stateside price for
    this device?
    		I just recently got details of the revamped Univibe -
    Supervibe (Leslie simulator for the uninitiated!)from Roger Mayer,
      -another person who made FX for Hendrix apparently- but this was
    priced at 250 pounds which is like way OTT for basically a `one sound`
    rackmount FX unit. 
    		
    
    				Cheers,
    					Tom
              
    
    

    	This represents a huge ~ 50% price difference between US and UK,if 
    you (Steve,or anyone else for that matter can recommend anywhere who
    does mail-order,I would be very keen to hear from them.Obviously it
    would have to be a VERY reliable company,so please bear that in mind!
    	A friend,coincidentally,was in that area last year,but said none
    of the stores he visited had it as a stock item,most could get it
    within a week but he only had a couple of days left of his visit.
    About the only Dunlop products readily available here are small items like
    picks,capos,bottlenecks and - of course - CryBabys!!
	Any further info would be appreciated...anyone ever use one?
    
    
    				Ta,
    
    					Tom.	
    

    >Any further info would be appreciated...anyone ever use one?
    
    I've worked with a guy who uses one.  Sounds kind of like a phase
    shifter or chorus.  Of course, you can vary the rate in real time with
    it (a small LED blinks to indicate the rate, too).  
    
    							Brian  

    	
    	AHA!.....I saw an ad for these in Guitarist magazine,and have
    written off to them requesting info on the EFX-1.This was before I read
    -.1 ie I didn`t consider it might have a Leslie simulation.If they send
    me any decent info then I`ll post it in this topic.    
    	I actually wanted info on this as I`m setting up a 4-track mini-studio
    at home,and will be looking for a budget FX unit in the near future.Would 
    you recommend the sounds from these units,are they fairly noise free etc?
    	Also,I do know that the Rotovibe gives real time accel/decel by 
    depressing the pedal Wah style beyond this I don`t know too much else
    about it.The only time I saw one was at the Scottish Music Fair two
    years ago,and let`s just say that the guys on the Dunlop stand were less
    than helpful when I asked to demo it....still their loss was Marshalls
    gain........no pun intended 8^) .
    
    					Tom
                                      
    helpful 
      
     
    

    East Coast Music, how far from Hartford? Can some one send me the
    direction plaese?
    
    KL

    Hi !
    
    I saw a new one from ZOOM a couple of days ago, called 2020.
    A nice little floor-unit with lots of effects. The ones I remember
    is : Comp, Dist, Wha, Pitch, Cho, Fla, Del, Rev, Trem. I tryed it 
    for half an hour and was quite happy with it. The Comp. hovewer was
    not that good.
    The memory for your own patches was built in five banks 
    with four patches each. There was also some factory presets.
    
    Anyone else have comments on this one ???

    	Re .86,I got a letter back from Soho Soundhouse about the EFX2
    unit,but unfortunately they don`t have any brochures.What they could
    tell me though was that the EFX2 does not have a rotary speaker
    simulator but could be programmed to give an approximation using
    chorus,delay etc.Fair enough,but I doubt it would be worth the
    bother.Still,at 139 pounds it may still be good value,and I am
    considering getting one for my 4-track setup at home.
    	Incidentally,I have since ordered a Dunlop Rotovibe box,so I will
    post a note when I`ve used it......more money than sense eh?...or is
    this a case of GTS?

    this is GTS...and there's no denying it.There is only one cure...
    
    
    
    
    ..give me your toys..I'll look after them! 8)
    
    
    					ian

    Hahaha! ;^)
    
    
    
    					ian

re:                      <<< Note 22.87 by KIRKTN::WATSONT >>>

re the Dunlop Rotovibe

Do you mind me asking how much you were quoted for this unit in the UK?
I might be interested in trying one myself.

*Dave

    Hi, 
    
    What is the best Distortion pedal? (I want to buy one)
    Someone knows the Sansamp? and his price?
    I play with the "pedale Wah-Wah" of Dunlop (Hendrix). 

    re .-1
    
    how much do you want to spend? Pedals cost anywhere from $40 to 
    $400 (US). What type of sound do you want? BOSS makes zillions of
    flavors of distortion pedals depending on what kind of sound you
    want. Hendrix used a (Dallas-Arbiter) Fuzz Face.
    
    - Dave

    The "best" distortion pedal is the one you like.  I've heard things
    that other people have raved about that I hated.  Go to a store and try
    a bunch of them out.  That should give you a general idea of what style
    of distortion complements your playing.
    
    Greg (who uses either a Marshall amp or a Boss Turbo Distortion for 
          his grit)

    
    
      I think you are looking for a Roger MAyer Octavia pedal. It was
    a staple in the Hendrix FX arsenal. Of course, playing through a 
    Marshall tube (valve) amp will help immensely when going for the 
    sound. Simple enough - Strat + Octavia + Marshall = Hendrix tone. 
    
    							-John R-

I once had a guitar instructor who thought that the biggest component of
the Hendrix sound was a turned-up Marshall.

Jim (who gets his distortion via the gain knob on a Marshall 4501)

>I once had a guitar instructor who thought that the biggest component of
>the Hendrix sound was a turned-up Marshall.
    
    And a Fuzz Face...
    

>>    And a Fuzz Face...

    Oh, and maybe just a little tiny bit had to do with the way he played.

    Sorry, I know this is blasphemy in the FX note, but I couldn't help
    myself.

    Get thee from the effects note.  Don't you know you can sound like
    *anyone* if you get the right effects???????

    I guess it's been a while since anyone has put anything in here. I hope 
    someone is still reading this notes file. I just came from Steve's
    music store here in Ottawa. You should see the things I've seen. There
    is a new type of effects rack out there now that is cleaning up on 
    everyone out there. It is called the chameleon. It has 256 factory 
    presets in it and you can mold the sound from each preset. It also has
    a new type of circuitry(sp) but I can't remember what it is called but
    basically it has a noise gate for every cord in the scale or something
    like that. Basically,if you are doing a lead solo and you are playing 
    an 'e' note and you say hit a f as well,it will cut out the f note 
    so you look totally perfect. It even has a Joe Satriani preset in it
    and man talk about sustain. They have a new version out now of this
    system and basically it is the same except that it has another button
    on it which will give all different types of tube amp sounds for the
    effects you are currently running. I tell you,if you haven't seen one
    yet. Get out there and find one. You'll be very impressed. 
     If you do find one in the States find out how much it is with and
    without the foot switch. Up here the rack is going for about $850 and 
    the foot switch is an extra $300. 
     Keep on rocking.
    
    
    
    

    Rocktron makes the Chameleon...
    
    jc (Who doesn't like Rocktron gear since he has one...)
    

re: -< EFFECTS FOR THE SOLE >-

   I prefer tartar sauce...  :-)

   -- Sam
   

      re : .103 jc - Still trying to program the intellifex? I know what you
    mean, but the quality of the effects is what I like (after the pain of
    programming). Hey, did you ever try programming an algorithm from
    scratch on a Digitech TSR-24? OUCH!
    
      I think the Replifex is much better for guitar.
    
      The Chameleon is kind of old hat. The newer one is the Voodu Valve
    that has a tube preamp built in. And there is a new programmable
    preamp w/o effects called the Piranah. 

    
    BoOm,
    
    TSR-24?  No thanks.
    
    And I like the quality of the 'verb and delays.  The flanger and chorus 
    leave me cold (as ice).
    
    jc

    thanks for the info.  I was going to check out a TSR-24 but I guess I
    won't bother now.  
    
    Rumor has it that Jeff is on his way to an all M-word rack! ;-)
    
    Mike

    Yes, I'm still having fantasies of the JFX-1 to match my other
    marshall components...
    
    ...I'm still incredibly happy with the (nearly) all-marshall
    solution...
    
    :-)

    What kind of reviews is the Quadraverb 2 getting?  someone must have a
    decent general purpose efx unit, with a decent interface, that doesn't
    leave you cold.
    
    Mike

I own a Qverb-2.  Check out the following notes in KDX200::COMMUSIC for my
comments and review:

    BLADE::ANDRE         6-JUL-1995   90.25  QV2 mini-review
    BLADE::ANDRE         7-AUG-1995   90.40  Quadraverb 2 V2.0 EPROM upgra
    BLADE::ANDRE        25-SEP-1995   90.44  Qverb-2 V2.0 Upgrade Review

    What a nice weekend. Decent weather, wins for Hill and Cadalora and I 
    get a new pedal!
    
    I mentioned in my sign in note that my amp (McGregor 150w mosfet 4 ch 
    PA, into 2 x un-branded spkr cabs) is a bit naff to say the least. I 
    bought it 4 yrs ago second hand because it was dirt cheap and I 
    needed 4 inputs for the synths/drums. Its not too bad a sound for the 
    keyboards, but lacks real soul for the guitars, esp the Tele. So...
    I decided to look at the tube/pre-amp pedals on the market (I've no 
    rack stuff). 
    
    I tried 5 in a couple of shops of saturday, taking care to try and 
    select as flat a sound as possible on the wonderful stuff in the shop 
    they insist you play through! One was a clear winner (for me)...so 
    I'm now the proud owner of a Jerry Donahue Session Master pedal and I 
    absolutely love it.
    
    Not only does my tele now sound like a tele, but I can get Les P type 
    sounds and some classic strat sounds as well as the usual Vox 
    AC30/driven stack/classic combo type fx - it is a quality piece of 
    kit and the 12" spkr emulation button is really the key to it all.
    A real clever piece of ciruit design.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Steve
    
    
    
    
     

    I hear that JD has given up on normal amplifiers and runs his Session
    Master direct both live and in the studio.  Sounds like a nice box.
    
    /rick
    

    This weekend, I tried the Marshall JFX-1 in a rack with the Marshall 
    JMP-1 preamp and 9200 power amp.  The same rack also had the Quadraverb 
    2.0 in it.  I was disappointed in the JFX-1.  The sounds were good
    enough but it's not nearly as robust as the Qverb 2.  I really liked
    the Qverb 2 and the front display is pretty cool.  Remember: you gotta
    have lots of lights.
    
    Mike

    btw - I hadn't bought my 2 new guitar yet when I tried out the gear in
    -1.  The store had a used Ibanez RG550 that I purposely selected to
    demo the gear out of familiarities sake.
    
    Mike