Conference napalm::guitar

    Well, this gets back to the disscussion in the old music.not about
    Blues scales and their applications, but personally I find your
    harmonic approach harsh on my ear as you have superimposed minor
    pentatonic scales over major chords. Yeah, there was a big argument
    over dissonance and 'feeling', but I like using pentatonic scales
    from the relative minor root over major chords, and then substitute
    dissonance from that point. It's less direct on your ears.
    
    -WJB

    SURE SOUNDS COMPLICATED.    
    

    DOES ANYBODY OUT THERE LISTEN TO DELTA BLUES MASTERS LIKE ROBERT
    JOHNSON, BLIND WILLIE JOHNSON, CHARLEY PATTON, ARTHUR BLAKE, ETC.?
    ANY RY COODER AFFICIONADOS? CAN ANY OF YOU GUYS PLAY SLIDE WORTH
    A DARN? WOULD ENJOY HEARING FROM YOU.

    Yeah, I like 'em.  Years ago, when I was teaching guitar, I used
    to play a little ragtime blues (Blind Blake, Rev.Gary Davis kinda
    stuff), but I can't really sing blues so I just let it go when I
    quit teaching.  Lately I've been thinking about digging out my
    Sears Roebuck three-quarter-inch deep socket and trying once again
    to learn slide.  
    
    I expect to get some inspiration this weekend, since I'll be at
    a party with Johnny Shines, who travelled with Robert Johnson
    in the thirties.  He's apparently the closest real-life equivalent of 
    the Willy Brown character in the movie, "Crossroads", though there's
    really not much resemblance.
    
    If anybody's interested, Johnny just graduated from a south Alabama
    trade school (auto body repair) and is about to get married for
    the Nth time.
    
    Bob
    

    I was reminded last night that there really was a Willy Brown who
    spent some time with Robert Johnson, but he was a guitar player
    and he's long dead.
    
    Bob
    

    I'm a self-taught guitarists, not terribly good, but with a widish
    range of chords (I play steel-string acoustic). I'm particularly
    interested in blues, r'n'b and old soul, from Bessie Smith to BB
    King to Otis Redding. Trouble is, having gone through the very basic
    12-bar blues structure (4-2-2-1-1-1-1), I'm a bit short on patterns
    for making my own tunes.
    
    Anyone's got some favourite patterns (with examples/reference) that
    I could adopt?
    
    OLIVO

    I'm a gut guitarist, and wouldn't be much help putting my ideas
    down in a readble format.  However, I can recommend a book for you
    to purchase which discusses this in detail - The Heavy Guitar Bible.
    
    Jon
    

    
    Thank you, Jon-
    
    I'm in England, not in the States - could you tell me author +
    publisher, please?
    
    Olivo

    	I also recommend the Heavy Guitar Bible. It is a Guitar Player
    Magazine Publication. It can be ordered thru them. 
    
    
    Tom

    I have a copy that I could be talked into lending to you. Why not
    lean over and have a chat?

    
    Re .0
    
    Well, Olivo, you seem to have exactly the same musical tastes as
    me! I'm mad about soul, r'n'b and blues, whether it be Aretha Franklin,
    Dr. Feelgood, Albert King or Chuck Berry.
    
    That said, I'll try to give you a few tips on blues chord formations,
    though I'm no maestro myself.
    
    1. Try the following turnaround (the last four bars of a 12 bar in
    the key of A):
    
    | /  /  /  / |  /  /  /  / |  /  /  /  / |  /  /  /  / |  
      E7            D7            A  A7 D  Dm   A  F7 E7

    2.Try using ninth chords in place of seventh chords. (You might
    already be doing this !) They'll give your songs a more jazzy sound
    (i.e. like B.B. King rather than John Lee Hooker).
    
    3.Leaving aside soul artists and concentrating on blues, you'll
    notice that not all songs are repetitive 12 bars or 8 bars. Take
    for example "Do The Do" by Howling Wolf; the song consists entirely
    of one major chord over and over again ! You could also try chords
    like E7+9 (look it up in your chord book). This is the chord that
    Jimi Hendrix made famous on songs like "Purple Haze" and "Foxy Lady".
    With a little imagination you can come up with some great R&B sounds
    using these sort of chords.
    
    4. Above all, LISTEN to the records. Copy the chord structures of
    songs by Wilson Pickett, Junior Walker, Bo Diddley, etc. and adapt
    them to suit your own pieces.
    
        Incidentally, I'd be most interested to hear yours or anyone
    else's ideas.
    
    Good luck, Dom
    

    
    Come to think of it, I can also recommend an excellent book. It's
    called "Jazz Chordings for the Blues/Rock Guitarist" by Paul Lucas
    (Columbia Pictures Publications), but it's actually a good guide
    to advanced chord structure in general.
    My copy appears to have been made cheaply to keep the price down
    (i.e., wire binder, no photos, etc.) and in fact, it cost me only
    12,000 lire here in Italy (probably considerably less than six quid
    in the UK). 
    If you want to learn the more complex blues chord sequences found
    in songs by B.B. King, Big Joe Turner, etc., then I can thoroughly
    recommend it.
    
    All the best, Dom
    

                Scales and Keys problem

Hello everybody.

I've been playing Guitar for about a year or so and I have become addicted
to it. I'm only sorry I didn't pick it up a long time ago.
Anyway,while I was building up welts on the tips of my fingers learning
beginners chords I was perplexed by the concept of "key" and playing in
or out of key, but with the help of a very good book (- The Guitar Dictionary
by Ralph Denyer -) and learning the scale of Cmaj I can transpose into 
different keys simple chord combinations.

eg   key of G  : G  C  D7   -----> key of E  : E  A  B7

THEN I learnt the blues scale (Pentatonic) only to find out that it is a
minor scale and playing pentatonic runs along with major chords they sound
slightly out of key, but played with a minor chord they sound much better.

Now, I want to learn blues guitar and lots of blues songs are in the key
of A , are blues musicians bending the rules or do you play pentatonic
runs in A for instance while the song is in C.
Also how do I transpose a song into a minor key from a major one

ie  key of E : E  A  B    ------> key of Em : Em  Am  Bm ??????????
                          
Have I missed something here, am I trying to run before I can walk.

Any help on Blues playing would be appreciated.

yours (perplexed again)

Paul Kirk - Dublin F.S.

    
    I wouldn't attemp to transpose music from some major scale to
    a minor scale. An Amin chord certainly sounds differant from
    a C chord. As far as playing certain types of scales to the
    blues, certainly there are scales that won't fit in too well
    with blues, however, I wouldn't limit myself to one or two
    scales, as this leads to redundancy. I find the best way to 
    play the blues is to listen to some of the blues greats and
    try to pick up on some of their licks. Many unorthadox scales
    and techniques have become accepted practice in blues, as appossed
    to standard major or minor scales. The guitar lends itself to
    playing certain types of things that makes it unique from other
    instruments.
    
    I don't usually transpose anything unless it can only be sung 
    in a certain key range, or if I was going to be playing with a Harp/
    Sax/horns, etc. These instruments all have fixed reeds, etc. and
    the pitch cannot be altered like a guitar, therefore is is often
    necessary to transpose to a key that the sax player can play, or
    play in a key that your harp player has the correct harp for, etc.
    
    Hang in there, and let your ears do the work, rather than trying
    to learn it from a book.
     
    Mark Jacques
    

    In general, if you take a I-IV-V progression from major key to minor
    key, the I and IV chords become minor but the V is major:
    
    key of E; E, A, B7  ---->  key of Em: Em, Am, B7
    
    However, some blues tunes would use the Bm anyway!!!! confused yet??
    
    
    This works out because E minor is simply the G major scale starting
    on E:
    
    E F# G A B C D E
    
    the I chord is thus E-G-B = Em
    
    the IV is A-C-E = Am
    
    the V is B-D-F# = B (if you add in the A, B7)
    
    Even though the pentatonic contains the lowered third, it still
    can be used over a major chord, the lowered third simply provides
    tension.  Plus in the case of the key of E:
    
    The true third is G# for E major
    
    Using G instead over the E chord: provides tension
    
    over the A: works as the seventh
    
    over the B: works as the sixth
    
    In E minor, the G is consonant with the I chord and functions the
    same with the IV and V as it does in the major key.
    
    
    
    

    
    Blues (7th chord) formula... technically Mixolydian mode but
    watered down here.
    
    Simply play either the major scale a fourth above the chord or
    (the same notes) the minor scale a fifth above.
    
    Take the I-IV-V in A using all 7th chords; A7 - D7 - E7.  For the
    A7, play a D major scale or an E minor scale (with the C# note).
    For the D7, play either in G major or A minor.  For the E7, play
    in A major or B minor.
    
    Tape yourself playing just the A7 chord over and over.  Play the
    D major scale and E minor scale and try to resolve on the A7 notes
    (G - A - C# - E).  
    
    Even though you are playing the same notes using the D major and
    E minor scales, you tend to play different licks.
    
    Another example of modes made easy... wanna play spanish like Al
    Dimeola??  Record yourself strumming an Am chord and riff out of
    F major or G minor.  Presto!!  Mr Phrygian!!!  
    

    How I agree with .1
    
    I learnt a hell of a lot from an album by Snooks Eaglin when I first
    started to play.
    
    One good trick is to listen for the lowest note which you can hear
    in a piece. This should point you to the open bass string, say it
    is E, but because the early country blues players would be unable
    to identify concert pitch it may not be the E which you would hear
    on a piano!
    
    However, tune your bass string to the lowest note and the other
    5 to that. If you feel its a bit high, tune down and put a capo
    on.
    
    Once you have established the pitch, play along.
    
    There is no doubting that theory is essential but there is little
    place for it when trying to interpret the blues, especially country
    blues. 
    
    Those guys broke every rule in the book anyway.
    
    Another useful tip, if you are new to blues is to buy one of the
    dozens of compilation albums which are available to let yourself
    hear the range which is available in this field.
    
    Once you begin to get the feel you will dig deeper. For example,
    I would not encourage anyone to start by listening to Blind Willie
    Johnson. However once you have aquired the taste for the blues,
    he is essential listening.
    
    For what it is worth, I started with Leadbelly, Brownie Mcghee,
    Big Bill Broonzy and went on to Blind Boy Fuller, Blind Willie Mctell,
    Robert Johnson, Bukka White, Blind Blake etc, easing myself in gently.
    
    This is where it all began.... enjoy it and let it wash over you.
    
    You really wont find it in books.
    
    Regards
    
    andy 
    Reading UK
    
    
     

    Side note: How come so many blues artists have names like
    "Blind" John Doe, "Blind" Billy, "Blind" Lemon Skinhead Fats?
    
    Were these folks really blind??
    
    Edd

    good question, Edd!
    
    Dave 'Blind with Ingrown Toenails and Poison Ivy' Clark

    
    Some of them may have been blind, but many simply wore thick 
    "coke bottle bottom" glasses, and earned them the named "Blind"
                 
    Also required reading for anyone into the blues is the Movie
    "Crossroads". I find when I start getting tired of the blues, this
    movie gets me phyched again. The movie may not be the best plot
    or acting in the world, but it does show you just how far the
    blues can be stretched. Rent it some time and watch it on a VCR.
    
    It is also interesting to note that while blues may have originated
    in the Black South, and was really defined in places like Chicago,
    there are many differant forms of Blues today including British
    blues and Blues-Rock. These styles seemed to have stretched the
    blues beyond the context of it's traditional origin. Also
    required listening for people into the blues are any albums by
    Robert Cray. The man is the modern-day incarnation of the blues.
    I would recommend his "Strong Persuader" or "Look who's talking"
    albums for starters. These are the only 2 I am familiar with by
    him.
                                                       
    Mark Jacques
    
    
    

    
    listen to this months soundpage in Guitar Player featuring
    Robben Ford.  Or the Larry Carlton live album with 2 slow
    blues tunes.  Or Red House by Hendrix. 
    
    "It's my own fault" or "Be Careful with a Fool" by Johnny
    Winter.
    
    

    Re: live LC blues recordings
    
    I find the original recording of "Blues for TJ" with B. B. King
    (from the "Friends" album) to be a sorta of interesting comparison
    of styles.
    
    Both King and Carlton take solos.
    
    King's is, as you'd expect, sorta simple and rough, but overflowing
    with soul.
    
    Carlton's is sorta different.  It's ultra-clean, polished, etc.
    
    I like them both, but oddly enough Carlton's solo just sorta
    seems "out of place" after Kings.  It's sorta like too polished.
    
    I'm sorta reminded of that disastrous re-release of "West Side
    Story" that Bernstein perpetrated a few years ago.  He used
    opera singers instead of singing actors and it... well...
    y'know, Placido Domingo just didn't make for a very convincing
    Tony with his operatic voice.
    
    	db
    
    

    
    hello. i notice a dirth of talk about classical guitar matters,
    (tarrega sor et al) and would like to know if i am the only 
    one left in the world who cares about such dusty things.
    Oh well, at least i play the stuff on a kramer 1/2 the time..
    

    re: .6
    
    Start a topic.  I'll chew.
    
    Bob

    I've been trying to work up some new blues patterns of late...had some
    recent success, so I thought I'd post it up here for y'all to fiddle
    with it.
    
    My concept was to take the common blues patterns, which normally
    consist of two notes/string (except where the b5 came into play), and
    develop 3 note/string fingerings.  There, you have more possibilities
    for triplet-style figures and even sixteenth note figures take on a new
    feel to them! 
    
    I strated out with the following analysis (in minor):
    
    1  b3  4  b5  5  b7  8
    
    but the fingerings were coming along a little awkward.  I included the
    major 7th degree as an additional passing tone, and the fingerings work
    much better now. 
    
    1  b3  4  b5  5  b7  7  8
    
    Tonally, you get all these cool possibilities...ie, you can get the
    harmonic minor sound, or dorian/aeolian, or mixo if you throw the major
    third in there...its kinda hip.
    
    Did anyone check out that Paul Gilbert article on blues playing
    recently (his Terrifying Guitar 101 column)???  He was talking about
    using the std blues patterns with a few altered notes thrown in for
    color.  Its a great example of how to play over an A7b9 chord, and the
    b9 and b6 passing notes really sound great in there....check it out. 

    In reference to -1
    
    So...this:            now becomes this:
    
    ===========                 ===========    
    * o o o o *                 o | | | | |
    | o | | | |                 * o o o o *
    | o * o | |                 | o o | | |
    o | | o o o                 | o * o | |
    | | | | | |                 o | | o o o
                                | | | | o |
                                          o
    
    
    
    

    
    
>>>>    I strated out with the following analysis (in minor):
    
    
    	"Strated out" I really like it Buck!!!  Nice slip, I strated out in
    the sixties it think...
    
    
    	Anyway... I like what you said about major seventh check out this
    sharp 7 (I think) over the 5 chord in an A blues line...
    
                B    B    B    B    B    B
    e     4 5  5(7) 5(7) 5(7) 5(7) 5(7) 5(7) 5 4
    b   5                                        5
    g
    d
    a
    e
    
    
    	Souds cool huh, I think my idol Eric does this somewhere but I
    can't remember where.
    
    Steve
    

    HI my name is ron lafield. im studying heavy metal lead and rythm. i've
    been out of it now but for about 2 months but now im picking it back
    up. anybody know troy stetina? he's got a great method of teaching
    heavy metal

    Blues scales rot!  They stink, and anyone who uses them is a lousy
    player (myself included).

gee, Buck, seven years for that reply.  Musta been eatin' at you ;-)

Jim

    Terribly!

    Hi 
    any pointers for Blues Scales for Bass..
    
    I play bass and love a bluesy jam with the lead going up-to-down on
    riffs that spill over the bar , them the bass fills in at double the
    speed to reach the end of next bar together.. 
    only when playing it's great to listen to the other guitarist and do a
    question-answer raporte... very hard to explain.. perhaps some one may
    understand what I'm trying to explain and do a better... bass I feel
    does not necessary have to be the anchor of the bar..
    ron