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Conference ayjen1::jensen

Title:Jensen Support Information
Notice:FOR OFFICIAL SUPPORT SEE 4.11
Moderator:caly70.ayo.dec.com::Gordon
Created:Tue Feb 08 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:616
Total number of notes:2534

599.0. "BA356/BA364 on DEC 2000/300.." by QCAV02::KPREM () Fri Feb 14 1997 15:39

    Hello,
    
    We are offering BA356-KC or BA364-AB expansion box on a DEC 2000
    model 300 system. As per the SOC it has an inbuilt EISA based SCSI
    Controller, whereas SOC indicates that these two expansion boxes
    requires Fast & Wide SCSI controller for connectivity.
    
    Can we connect either of the above mentioned expansion boxes to the
    DEC 2000 model 300 system?? If Yes, what cable is required to connect
    the two.
    
    Tks in advance
    
    Prem
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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599.1maybe, BN31V-01 or BN21H-02 or BN21N-02CERN::HOBBSCongrats to the Ignoble Peace Prize winner! (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/ig_nobel)Sat Feb 15 1997 11:17179
First of all, scan this conference for topics on SCSI, the Adaptec controller
used in the Jensen is a *very* skittish device.  It is known to fail on
what should be valid configurations - leading to data corruption.  There are
very strong warnings in here about having both internal and external disks
connected to the SCSI.

The simple answer (and the answer for customers) should be *NO, Don't connect
an external box if there are internal disks*.

Therefore, you could:

	- remove all internal SCSI devices - including CDROM

	- verify correct resistor pack installation on the Adaptec

	- then
		o use BN31V-01 to connect to BA364

		o install CDROM into top CDROM slot of BA364
		(Note that the BA364 comes with screws and cable for doing
		this - but the cable is rather short and stiff.  If the SCSI
		connector on the Jensen's original CDROM is offset
		horizontally too much from the connector on the BA364 you
		might have to get a longer cable with more flex.  Or, you
		can include a newer, faster CDROM that is guaranteed to
		fit. (I've put RZ25, TLZ09, etc into that top slot...))

		o install up to 4 more disks in the BA364

	or
		o use BN21H-02 (50-50 HD) to connect to BA356 w/ 8-bit
		personality module (BA35X-MG), or BN21N-02 (68RA-50 HD)
		to connect to BA356 w/ 16-bit personality

		o install RRD45-VA 4X CDROM in BA356 (note that this takes
		three slots in the BA356)

		o install up to 4 more disks in the BA356

So, you're not going to be able to more than 4 disks + CDROM on the beast,
which means that the much cheaper BA364 is probably the way to go...

-cw

ps: One would have to verify that the Jensen firmware can handle the 4X
CDROM - it's possible that it cannot use the newer CD

pps: Having said all the dire warnings, I'm running a Jensen here with

	BA364:		[ RZ25  ]	(in CDROM slot)
			< RZ26L-VA >
			< RZ29B-VW >
			< RZ28D-VW >
			< RZ29B-VW >
        -> BN31V-01
	Internal:	< CDROM >
			< RZ26  >
	
It's working fine - at least I haven't yet noticed any undetected
data corruptions!  If it does fail, I'll only have myself to blame
for deliberately ignoring the fact that it is dangerous to put
internal and external disks on the same SCSI.

ppps: Notes in this conference on the scsi:

******************************
CRANS$:<NOTES_LISTINGS>JENSEN.NOTES;128

        caly70.ayo.dec.com:: 27-NOV-1996  586.1  Adaptec == SCSI
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG     3-MAY-1996  553.1  Bad SCSI
   553   COL01::VSEMUSCHIN   30-APR-1996     1  DEC 2000 AXP, Adaptec 1740 SCSI
and weir .CFG ...
   550   FORAT::JLS          12-APR-1996     0  ADAPTEC AHA1742A & RZ28M-VA
(BA353) HELP !!
        caly70.ayo.dec.com:: 14-FEB-1996  533.2  No extra SCSI information
provided
          CERN::HOBBS        14-FEB-1996  533.1  please look - list of Adaptec
1742/1740 SCSI questions
   533  TALLIS::SCHULER      13-FEB-1996     2  Dual Adaptec 1742s - SCSI config
question
   532  RTP4ME::FLACK         9-FEB-1996     2  How to upgrade Adaptec - FCO is
NLA
   528    QBUS::E_BURKHALTER 30-JAN-1996     1  Adaptec termination?
        caly70.ayo.dec.com:: 30-JAN-1996  527.3  SCSI config again...
        caly70.ayo.dec.com:: 19-JAN-1996  524.3  SCSI sen~or?
   524   CSC32::R_ROBERTSON  12-JAN-1996     3  Slow SCSI? How to set to.
        PTOSS1::BROWN_M      19-JAN-1996  522.7  The sordid SCSI solution....
        PTOSS1::BROWN_M       5-JAN-1996  522.2  SCSI Configuration Information
        caly70.ayo.dec.com::  5-JAN-1996  522.1  SCSI or INSTALLATION?
        caly70.ayo.dec.com:: 15-DEC-1995  515.1  Check the SCSI
        caly70.ayo.dec.com:: 22-NOV-1995  508.1  Looks like SCSI errors
   507  manaxp::tr           20-NOV-1995     2  problem with second adaptec 1742
        DECWET::JSCHNEID     10-OCT-1995  491.10  SCSI cables
        LJSRV1::STRAUB       21-SEP-1995  491.7  no SCSI conflicts
        DECWET::JSCHNEID     19-SEP-1995  491.6  SCSI ID conflicts?
        CALY70::Gordon        3-AUG-1995  468.1  Scsi wise it's the same as a
TLZ07
   450  UTOPIE::OETTL         9-JUN-1995     1  jensen/Adaptec/TZ877 problems
        CALY70::Gordon       25-MAY-1995  440.6  Long live the adaptec 1742
   440  NUTS2U::LITTLE       18-MAY-1995     6  What SCSI controller supported
by NT and OSF?
        CALY70::Gordon       16-MAY-1995  439.1  SCSI bus Rules... OK!
   432   HOBBE::DAHLBERG     26-APR-1995     5  URGENT   How to config two
ADAPtec in an JENZEN
        CALY70::Gordon       18-APR-1995  429.1  Fast SCSI bus...
   429  ROMVLC::SALVATI      18-APR-1995     2  SCSI i/o throughput
   373   56953::DORIAN       25-JAN-1995     1  scsi firmware updates for OSF
3.0b?
   363  QCAV01::JAMBU        16-JAN-1995     1  Fast SCSI II enabling how ??
        MKOTS1::WALKER       23-MAR-1995  351.6  You can no longer get the G.2
PROMs from Adaptec
   351  SMD72J::WOOD          3-JAN-1995     6  Adaptec aha1742 MCODE I
   315  PENSKE::SDATZMAN     23-NOV-1994    10  Can't see SCSI devices with SHO
DEV
         BASEX::SHEPPARD     30-NOV-1994  311.6  What is the current Adaptec
EPROM version
        AYJEN4::ARMSTRONG    27-OCT-1994  297.1  SCSI Termination issue
   289   TPSYS::HAUDEL       19-OCT-1994     3  rev h for scsi?
          AOSG::FTW          10-OCT-1994  281.6  One of the Great Myths of SCSI
         CSC32::B_HIBBERT    26-SEP-1994  262.5  Looks like a hung SCSI bus
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG    14-SEP-1994  257.4  SCSI bus lengths....
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG    13-SEP-1994  257.2  SCSI adaptor
        COPCLU::PETERC        1-SEP-1994  251.2  set scsi_c 7
   245   JRSVM::BAKER        26-AUG-1994     1  SCSI Firmware Version "H"?
   230    CERN::HOBBS         9-AUG-1994     2  SZ12 expansion box must be
powered on for SCSI termination?
   221  SMD72J::WOOD         27-JUL-1994     2  G.3 ROM upgrade for adaptec?
        FIEVEL::FILGATE       1-AUG-1994  210.5  SCSI busses must be very
carefully configured
   210  FAILTE::BURNETTD     14-JUL-1994     8  RZ28B and Adaptec 1742 probs
         UFHIS::JPFISTER      2-MAR-1995  190.6  Adaptec 1742 -> 2742
         19748::FTW           1-JUL-1994  190.2  ...and OSF supports only the
Adaptec 174X as well
   190  VAXRIO::CUPOLILLO     1-JUL-1994     7  SCSI controller support 
          SIOG::R_TAYLOR      7-JUL-1994  189.4  SCSI is OK
   185    RT95::TEDESCO      27-JUN-1994     3  SECOND SCSI CONTROLLER AGAIN?
        caly80::Gordon       28-JUN-1994  184.2  Adaptec IRQ advice...
   184  KERNEL::SMITHS       27-JUN-1994     5  2nd scsi card problems.
   169  KERNEL::SMITHS       13-JUN-1994     1  Adaptec aha1742 and ecu
questions.
        caly80::Gordon       13-JUN-1994  168.1  Adaptec ROM not System ROM!
   167  PELKEY::pelkey       13-JUN-1994    14  Help with Adaptech ROM update
   164    DRAC::JLSOLE       10-JUN-1994     2  2ND SCSI controller feedabck
          STAR::APGAR         8-JUN-1994  161.1  scsi cable length issue
          EVMS::JSAUNDERS    31-MAY-1994  145.1  Probable SCSI Termination
Problem
         19748::FTW           3-AUG-1994  138.12  zap the two scsi boards
   132  COPCLU::JORN         17-MAY-1994    10  Configuration problem - SCSI
adapters...
   130   MYTHS::Zgraggen     16-MAY-1994     2  4 SCSI adapters in a jensen
   120   KAOFS::S_GAGNON      9-MAY-1994     3  VMS 1.5 1h1: TIPS WHEN ADDING
SECOND SCSI CTRL IN JENSEN
   113    MIMS::FINKELSTEIN  28-APR-1994     2  How to get G.2 ROM upgrade for
Adaptec
   101  BACHUS::ROETS        15-APR-1994     1  osf T3.0-1 and scsi firmware
    94    EVMS::JSAUNDERS     9-APR-1994     3  Documentation on SCSI
Configuration?
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG     7-APR-1994   88.3  Adaptec 2740 config file
    79    RT95::TEDESCO      25-MAR-1994     3  Adaptec 1542 supported?
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG    21-MAR-1994   73.1  SCSI IRQ conflict
    73  myths.geo.dec.com::Z 21-MAR-1994     3  SCSI self-test failed, error
codes?
    63     GEM::BROWNLIE     10-MAR-1994     3  Loosing 2nd SCSI adapter on boot
        SMOGGY::EMERY         6-MAY-1995   46.14  Adaptec 2740 and DEC 2000
model 300 concerns
        VIVIAN::GOODWIN      15-APR-1994   46.11  Adaptec 1740/2740
        GIDDAY::HIRSHMAN     15-FEB-1994   45.3  SCSI adapter support?
           SQM::HARQUAIL     14-FEB-1994   45.1  SCSI terminators
        GIDDAY::HIRSHMAN     22-FEB-1994   42.3  SCSI adapter installation wrong
        MICKIE::kimpton      17-MAR-1994   40.13  Problem with external SCSI port
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG    13-APR-1994   36.1  3 SCSI card configuration
problems
        AYJEN1::GORDON       25-FEB-1994   22.4  SCSI Adapters Listed in
Microsoft's HCL.
        AYJEN1::GORDON       25-FEB-1994   22.3  Qualified SCSI Adapter Cards
for Windows NT 25/2/94
        AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG    22-JUL-1994   13.5  SCSI Bus recommendations
           SQM::CLOUTER      16-FEB-1994   13.2  SCSI/EISA firmware revision G.2?
    13  AYJEN1::ARMSTRONG    10-FEB-1994     5  SCSI Tips
599.2EISA based config..QCAV02::KPREMMon Feb 17 1997 14:467
    Tks for your valuable suggestions.
    
    The system config is a Jensen 2000/300 and is an EISA base
    m/c which does not support fast/wide SCSI. How do we configure
    this system with these external boxes ?? (cables ??)
    
    Regards,
599.3all info is in .1CERN::HOBBSCongrats to the Ignoble Peace Prize winner! (http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/ig_nobel)Tue Feb 18 1997 10:4055
>    this system with these external boxes ?? (cables ??)

All the information was given in .1.

Perhaps you don't realize that fast or fast/wide devices will work fine
with slow or fast/narrow controllers. The devices default to slow/narrow
mode unless the controller and device negotiate fast or fast/wide transfer.
All you have to do is make sure that the "wide" signal wires are properly
handled.  (N.B. many older -VA disks do *not* do the right thing with
the extra wires - plugging those drives into a wide shelf will make the
wide drives disappear, or maybe hang the bus.)

The Jensen SCSI is a fast controller with a 50 pin HD connector (50HD).  It
will ask each individual device if the device supports fast mode.  It will
never ask about wide mode, since the controller does not do wide.

The BA364 is fast wide with a 68 pin HD connector (68HD).

The one end of the BN31V-01 is 50HD, plug that into the back of the Jensen.
The other end of the BN31V-01 is 68HD, plug that end into the BA364.  The
cable does the right things with the 18 extra wires.

The BA356 has an I/O adaptor module between the backplane and the cable.
Two varieties exist - 8-bit and 16-bit (which have 50HD or 
68RA (68HD right-angle) connectors, respecively).

If you get the 8-bit, the BN21H-02 (50HD-50HD) cable is the right one.
If you get the 16-bit, use the BN21N-02 (68RA-50HD) cable (which also does
the right things with the 18 extra wires).

-cw
                      BA356-KD  7Dev Ped pwr no I/O Module

         Deskside Expansion Unit              o BN27S-03 power cord
         o High availability                  o Must order either an 8-bit
         o Holds up to seven devices            or a 16-bit personality
         o 16-bit SCSI-2                        module for specific
         o BA356-SC shelf                       configuration needs
         o BA35X-HF 150-W power supply          (BA35X-MG/MH)
         o BA35X-VA pedestal kit

                     BA356-KC  Exp Unit, 7 dev, 16-bit SCSI

         Deskside Expansion Unit                - BA356-SB shelf
         o High availability                    - BA35X-HF 150-W power
         o Seven-device                           supply
         o 16-bit                               - BA35X-VA pedestal kit
         o SCSI-2                               - BN27S-03 power cord
         o Includes:                            - BA35X-MH 16-bit I/O module


    1      BA35X-MG  8-BIT I/O MODULE FOR BA356                 N/A
    2      BA35X-MH  I/O Module, 16-bits for BA356              N/A