Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    I used DMCS with my A500/A590 for about a month (I was recruited into
    the choir for Christmas Eve and managed to borrow a copy so I could
    learn my part -- I've since removed it from my hard disk) because the
    music program that came in the Appetizer package consistently GURUed.
    
    DMCS worked for me without difficulty.  The GURU I experienced with the
    Appetizer music program went away when I changed the FFS version number
    as suggested elsewhere in this conference to cure incompatibility with
    VirusX 4.0.  It's quite likely that other pieces of software are also
    sensitive to this.

    DMCS certainly does crash, but in my experience only when I mouse-ahead
    too much (remember type-ahead?).  It runs OK 99% of the time, but I
    save data every 15 minutes.
    I now run it from RAM: so that overlays can load quickly.  maybe I
    should use rad:, but I don't use it much these days; the last time was
    6 months ago to enter a movement from beethoven's 9th.
    My musical activity has been restricted to writing a program that
    improvises in real time.
    Tom

If it crashes more now that you have a hard disk, it's probably running
out of memory - and not very gracefully!

A hard disk, like floppies, requires memory for it's driver's and file system
processes. So with the hard disk, you most likely have less free memory than
with only floppies (assuming all other things are equal)

john

I played very recently with it from Hard disk - I noticed that on after I had
exited the program I had less memory available (workbench menu bar).

Each time I entered and exited There was less memory....


I havn't noticed this from floppy, however I normally reboot after loading from
floppy..


Stan.

    maybe dmcs doesn't release libraries or memory.
    Tom

    Re .3:
    
>   If it crashes more now that you have a hard disk, it's probably running
>   out of memory - and not very gracefully!
    
    I think John's on to something here, probably starvation of chip RAM. 
    As I remember it, .0 mentioned an extra 1MB RAM in the A590.  The
    natural temptation is to take advantage of that extra memory and do
    real multi-tasking.  Each task needs some amount of chip RAM (something
    DMCS may well need LOTS of), so the effect would be that there would be
    LESS chip RAM available than otherwise.  (The above assumes assignment
    of Fast RAM first, so hard drive buffers and the like aren't further
    depleting chip RAM.)
    
    An experiment:
    1.	Boot the A500 from a floppy, load DMCS and a fair-sized piece, and
    	go to CLI to issue AVAIL.
    2.	Boot the A500 from the hard disk and do likewise.
    3.	Compare the amounts of available chip and fast RAM.  Any significant
    	difference that you can't explain due to differences in the disk
    	configuration and startup-sequence could be a clue to the problem.

    
    I don't know about EA not supporting or upgrading DMCS...
    
    GENIE had a survey by Electronic Arts asking Amiga users for feedback
    on how to improve the product.
    
    I didn't take the survey, nor have I seen the results...
    
    Ed.

Re: .4

Do you mean each time you run DMCS in between reboots the amount of free
memory goes down?  Or that every time you run it for the first time after
a reboot the amount of free memory goes down?

The first case is an indication of a poorly written program.  The second
case might be an example of a correctly written program.  AmigaDOS keeps
in memory libraries, fonts, and device drivers after all users of them
close them.  AmigaDOS only really frees that memory if it needs to allocate
memory and there isn't enough available.  This strategy cuts way down
on disk access.

Re -.1 I will investigate further...

(after I fix my hard disk!)

Stan.

    How many files do you have in your Music or Instrument drawers?  There
    is a small bug in the protected and unprotected version that will cause 
    a GURU if a drawer that DMCS accesses contains more than 63 files.  I
    wrote to EA about this and basically they said "Don't put more than 63
    files in a drawer and it won't GURU".  Sounds like a solid fix don't you
    think!
    
    Alan
                                                                   

    
    Re: .-1
    
    I don't believe that's a DMCS problem.  According to a number of
    vendors, it's a well known Intuition problem.  I've experienced 
    the same problem problem with:
    
    DMCS - too many songs in a single drawer
    DMCS - too many instruments in a single drawer
    DPRINT II - too many pictures in a single drawer
    Excellence! - too many Fonts in my fonts directory
    
    Frank
    

The problem the EA products (DMCS, DPRINT II) have with two many files
(instruments, music, pictures ...) Is caused by EA not allowing enough
memory to build the file lists.

The problems that several progranms have with FONTs is that they do font
selection with a single column menu.  This is an intuition problem.  Intuition
can not handle menu's that are longer than a screen.  The best FONT requestor
that I have seen was done like a file requestor and even allowed you to preview
a font before having to select it for use.  (I don't remember which program
it is.)

-----Robert

PS: EA also told me they weren't going to FIX DMCS ever.  They also told me
    that it is not supported against WB 1.3.  I was told this in January, it
    may have changed by now.

    I guess the rule for developers is: use mallocs to allow building
    directly lists or any other array of unpredicatable length.
    I am disappointed that DMCS may not be upgraded.  It was incredibly
    effective for price/performance at the time it came out, if you like
    score-oriented editing.  I guess this means I had better convert all my
    dmcs files to SMUS or midi standard in the next 12 months (not expect 
    them to
    work in 5 years).  It's just that the dr t programs that do that cost
    so much.  I wonder if I could write a good converter.  SMUS and MIDI
    are documented (dmcs can save smus).
    Tom

    Thanks for all the well-informed replies and suggestions...regarding
    more than 63 files in a drawer, I don't have near that many in a
    drawer. It was January, I believe that I called EA and they gave me a
    few do's and don'ts, but also said no upgrade was planned. Too bad,
    'cause I  like DMCS ! Wish there was something comparable out there....

    re .12
    
    Deluxe Paint III uses a font requestor that looks like a file requestor
    and allows the font to be previewed (not the whole font, it uses a
    list of characters that lets you get the flavor for the font -
    naturally the one time I was looking to match a small text sample,
    none of the letters I had were the ones they display..)
    
    Yours
    Erg

re .13
    >I guess this means I had better convert all my dmcs files to SMUS or 
    >midi standard in the next 12 months (not expect them to work in 5
    >years).  It's just that the dr t programs that do that cost
    >so much.  I wonder if I could write a good converter.  SMUS and MIDI
    >are documented (dmcs can save smus).

    Music-X has already written a SMUS to MIDI converter.  It comes
    as part of the package and it is not as expensive as Dr. T's.
    Also, there is an upgrade in the works to add more functions to
    the program.  Possibly score-oriented editing.......
    
    John

    re .16
    
    I just read in one of the latest Amiga magazines a review of Music-X.
    At the end was an editor's note that Microillusions has gone out
    of business putting the whole concept of upgrade to Music-X in jeopardy.

re .-1    

  If Microillusions is out of business I hope someone else picks up
Music-X. ( Photon Paint too!) This really is to bad. I am extremely happy
with Music-X and was looking forward to updates.

 The author of Music-X is Dave Joiner. He is on BIX  (user Talin).
If anyone has an account on BIX, maybe they could ask him about the
current status.?

Brien

    I recall reading somewhere on the USENET that the Microillusions out of
    business news was untrue.  I'll see if I can dig up the information.  I
    think they said that microillusions was trying hard to get into the
    Nintendo cartridge market and was cutting back on "PC" entertainment
    software marketing.  This is all hearsay!
    
    md

    Does anyone know how I can delete the DMCS image from my hard drive
    ? I've tried using the DOS protection to no avail. It still won't
    allow me to delete the executable.

    Re .20:
    
>   Does anyone know how I can delete the DMCS image from my hard drive?
>   I've tried using the DOS protection to no avail. It still won't
>   allow me to delete the executable.
    
    Very interesting.  From CLI/Shell, LIST DMCS#? (that'll get DMCS.info,
    too) and look at the various protection bits for each.  You might also
    check to see if the containing directory is modifiable.

    
    Don't know if this is your problem but!  If you have anything in your
    startup sequence that references DMCS, AmigaDos may prevent you from
    deleting it. 
    
    If this is the case, you ususlly get a flashing screen and a message
    that say something like "error - object in use".
    
    	Frank
    

    
    Also,
    
    you might try renaming the file and then deleting it.  This could
    potentially get rid of any unprintable characters that may be in
    the file name and you not realizing it.  Or, try deleting with 
    wild card notation.
    
    Frank
    

    Looks like I created a 'hot' topic...I still can't keep DMCS up long
    enough to get any work done with it from my A590, guess I'll just pull
    it off the bus. Another curious thing I discovered, If I try to edit
    the startup-sequence file on a DMCS floppy, it comes back to CLI with a
    message - "file contains binary". Anyone else see this ? 
    
    Any further news on Microillusions in/out of business ? I was thinking
    of getting Music-X . . . . 

    Microillusions is still alive and well.  Amazing Computing was a
    bit hasty on their demise.  The only reason no one could get a hold
    of them is because they changed their phone number.
    
    John

    Partial fix on the way.  That is if I can find it.  In the October
    issue of Computer Shopper page 621 there was mention of a program
    called FIXDMC.LZH.  This was supposed to patch DMCS to use the ARP
    requester and thus get around the >64 file guru problem.  It was
    supossed to be on Compuserve but I cannot find it there.  Has anyone
    heard of this?.  
    
    I got rid of the random crashing by booting up a WB 1.2 floppy to 
    access DMCS from the hard disk.  WB 1.3 made it too unstable.  I could
    not exit the program under 1.3 with out a GURU.  Enabling MIDI would guru 
    it almost every time.
    
    
    Alan
    

    I saw the same article but have never seen the archive.  I don't know
    if FIXDMC.LZH is anything but a partial solution.  I've been running it
    under 1.3 for ages simply by spreading the scores across subdirectories
    to avoid the >64 problem (but I've not used MIDI).  
    
    I think there are other DMCS problems.  Even when that program exits
    correctly (which it now does most of the time) I make a habit of
    re-booting before doing anything I really care about.  I'd say that my
    system is generally rock solid until after using DMCS when I start to
    randomly experience "frozen screens" and "software task held"
    occurances.  I'm convinced they're DMCS left overs.  It's really to
    bad E.A. won't do a cleanup and update of that program, I actually
    think it's pretty nice, and very inexpensive for what it does.
    
    Frank
    
    My system appears to be rock solid
    "except" for those times 

    A short while back I talked to a CA rep at one of the local dealers.  I
    pointed out to him that the Amiga 3000 add was misleading.  It shows a
    DMCS screen.  I doubt if DMCS will work with Dos 2.0.  I was thinking
    of ARP 1.2 the FIXDMCS and Dos 1.2.  I still have not seen any other
    one package that does all that DMCS does.
    
    

    
    
    Hi Guys,
    
    	I just FTP'd it across ad uploaded it to tape
    
    		TAPE::user2:[upload]FixDMCS10.lzh
    
    			Ok 
    
    		
    		.-Pete-.
    

    
    Thanks Pete,
    
    I just tried it and it works as advertised.  Should also fix the
    limitations with the number of instruments  (described in note 1602).   
    
    Frank
    
    
    

		I have been experiencing problems with DMCS as well.
	When I try to use the scroll bar to move around the score,
	the score screen blanks and it becomes necessary to click on
	the score screen selection from the menu to bring it back.
	As you can well imagine, this is a tremendous pain in the
	keister and I havn't been using DMCS at all lately because
	of it.  I like DMCS otherwise and would like to get it back
	on track.  Does anyone have any idea as to what could be
	causing this behavior?

						Jim

    Do use any mouse accelerators or non standard workbench size.
    This sort of thing occasionally happens to my screen (Not DCMS because
    mine is kept on a particular floppy at present ).
    
    
    			Pete

    Re .31
    
    Jim,
    
    I've never experienced the scroll problem.  In fact after I read your
    note I went into DMCS and tried to screw it up with the scroll bars
    and could not.
    
    I wonder how many versions of DMCS are out there?  I have no idea how
    to get version number out of it but the version I have is 301904 bytes.
    I know folks have complained about older versions being copy protected,
    is yours that old by any chance?
    
    To help you eliminate sources of the problem I can tell you how I run:
    1. It's on DH1 and I always start it from the DeluxeMusic icon
    2. 512k or 1meg Agnus makes no difference (i've upgraded successfully)
    3. I run 1.3.2  ver 34.28 with all the latest patches (I think)
    4. In the background I run VirusX, NoClick, Pyro, Qmouse, Commodore clock
    5. I have 5 meg with fastmem first and mergemem
    
    The vast majority of problems I run into are quitting DMCS or somtime
    thereafter.  
    
    Last night I installed the FixDMCS patch and it indeed does fix the
    directory problem but now something else funny happens (occasionally)
    when I get out. -  I normally run a commodore digital clock in my
    WB title bar and now I notice that after running DMCS the time
    no longer gets displayed in the little clock window.  It remains empty
    and can't get it to come back.   Strange, but not surprising!
    
    Frank
    
    

    
    I surrender......  The FixDMCS patch appears to have side effects 
    which I can live without.  I've been sitting here for an hour 
    going in and out of DMCS (often having to re-boot) and I observed:
    
    DMCS without the patch .....
       I can ALMOST ALWAYS exit without a problem.  Ocasionally I get a 
       frozen screen (about normal for DMCS).
    
    DMCS with the patch ....
       I can ALMOST NEVER exit without a screwed up system. Either a hung
       background process or frozen screen, even an occasional GURU.
     
    So! I've abandoned the patch.  It would have been neat but I had
    already worked around the problem by spreading my songs across 
    sub-directories.  Splitting instruments between directories is 
    a pain because those not found in the instruments directory will have
    to be manually loaded.  I guess I've been lucky in keeping instruments
    under 60.
    
    Oh Well!
    Frank
     
    

    Thanks Pete for the Upload.
    
    I am using it under WB 1.3 with the FRQLIB.LZH ARP requester
    replacement.  The 64 file limit is fixed up to 93 so far so good.  DMCS
    still GURU's on exit if the MIDI input is enabled.  Guru's
    00000004.002BEC0 and 00000004.002C1BD0 are two that I wrote down.
    
    Under WB 1.2 it works great I am using ARP 1.3 library on the 1.2 work 
    bench, so far no problems.  If I develop any problems I will try the 
    ARP 1.2 it should still be on the Net somewhere.
    
    I have the 301904 size DeluxeMusic program.  Why couldnt EA use a
    version number like everyone else in the industry?
    
    Thanks again Pete for the upload.
    
    Alan
    

< Note 3627.33 by HPSCAD::GATULIS "Frank Gatulis 297-6770" >

    Frank,

	I do have an older version with copy protection, I'll have to check
	the byte size.  It runs correctly if I use a virgin 1.3 floppy to
	boot with but, if I boot off the hard drive, I experience the scroll
	symtoms.  I'm running DMouse and FACII in background but this set-up
	used to work just fine.  The problem showed up when I moved my
	system disk off the 2090 controller and onto the HardFrame so maybe
	it's a function of disk speed.  I guess I'll have to spend some more
	time trying to eliminate variables in the operating context, or else
	I'll have to dig into that Tiger Cub manual and bring myself up to
	speed with that.  Grumble..grumble..I did like DMCS alot!
    
							Jim

    My impression (and it's only a SWAG) is that DMCS is not real good at
    handling mouse movement interrupts while it's doing major league stuff
    like updating a screen after scrolls or removing windows during exit. 
    Try making sure the mouse stays still until all the window management
    has ceased.  I've run DMCS for a while and haven't had any real
    problems if I leave the mouse alone until it stabilizes.  I just
    started using MIDI also and haven't had problems.  I run it off an
    Escort HD with 1.3

I agree.  DMCS is intolerant of mouse-ahead (as opposed to type ahead).
I havn't used it in some time, but I did use to record 18 years of my
compositions (about 7.5 hours of  modern classical music) onto cassettes for
friends.

Save you work every 10 minutes.  Don't mouse-ahead (wait for screen to
settle, which isn't always easy to tell with DMCS, it alwyas seems to have
one more refresh to do).  Reboot after exiting.

Tom