Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Can you also give a configuration breakdown and cost (even if it's
    estimated)?

Well, I can't say what the DECnet software might cost since I am a beta
tester (and I really have no idea).  I didn't sign a non-disclosure, but
I morally feel that I can't give too much away about the product, since 
things will change before it's released.  I'll ask Syndesis what I'm entitled
to say.  They may actually want to spread the word, who knows?

X-Windows is currently available in a monochrome version, so I can give out
some relevant information, not directly related to this beta version.  I 
really don't know what the cost is, but I believe I have seen it advertised
(with the optical mouse) close to $400.  Minus the mouse - $300.  That might
be on the high side.

X will run on any Amiga system with at least 1M of memory.  This is strictly
as an X-terminal, no local clients.  

It will run very comfortably on a 2M system, and at least this much RAM is
recommended.  You will need 6M of hard disk space to install the full
set of Server, Clients, Fonts, Bitmaps, and support programs.  This may be
local or on a remote harddisk, accessed via NFS (TCP/IP - not DECnet).
Floppies are ok, but you might have to do some swapping - like you normally
would expect.

A 1M Amiga 500, would actually make a decent X-terminal provided you could
get a high speed serial connection, or make use of an ethernet card through
an expansion box.

I was running X this afternoon, and it's fairly usable at 2400 baud.  It's
obviously not super responsive, but not terrible.  I would bet that 9600
would be nice, and 19.2 pretty darn good.  At 2400 I would have to call it
SLUGwindows. 

It's kind of neat to use notes/mail/Xemacs/... on your Amiga, while actually
running local clients.  Let's see a PC/Mac do that!  You can also run multiple
servers, each with it's own screen.  That's something else very unique.

A killer setup would have to consist of one of those 19" 1Kx1K resolution
monitors (or ECS), A2500, ethernet board, and proper software == A reasonably
priced X based workstation.

Steve

re:-1
	You forgot to add a thinwire connection to your home office!!!

	Anybody ever hear what became of the proposal to rent bandwidth
	from a local cable company so that E-net connections could be
	made from home in the Stow area?  Talked about heavily a few years
	ago then dropped like a rock.

	Dick

I have 'screensave'd a few X11 screens and placed them in an archive on
tape::user2:[upload]x11_pics.zoo.  There is a short .readme there also.

They just show a few DECwindows clients running from a VMS host, as well
as a few local clients.  The 'save' utility produces an .iff that 
Superview doesn't particularly like.  It ends up not being properly
centered.  Try the older 'ViewILBM' (or paint program) to show these
pics.  (I can set the screen colors, but have left them black/white. They 
may flicker slightly.)

The X11 is working out pretty well.  Since TSSnet is an announced product
from Syndesis, I have gotten the go ahead to talk about, demo it, etc.

I'm currently running an early beta version, but I am expecting an update that
will contain a complete FAL, extra NCP screens, and the ability to DL load the
node database (by area, etc).  Mail will be implemented, but file transfer is
the current top priority.  Lot's of good things planned.

If anyone would like a demo (I'm in LKG), send me some mail.  I'd prefer 
after hours (^5pm), but we can work things out.

Steve

Since it appears that DECnet and X may soon be a reality for Ami...

Has Digital established a policy yet about Easynet nodes running over
dialup links, especially from "non-DEC" hosts?  Since they have started
getting picky about security of normal nodes, I assume they would look
askance at Amigas running over dialup lines.

Clearly this is a problem that will need to be solved before long - now
that DECwindows is becoming a normal operating mode people will need to use
it from home, but I haven't heard any discussion of it.

	Paul

    
    
    	DECnet policy seems to be made both at a local level and company
    wide. At least in our DECnet area, DECnet node names and numbers are
    a very tight resource ( this should change with phase V ). We are 
    required to write a justification and pass a local review board.
    
    	For security reasons, dial-up DECnet connections are not allowed.
    
    	I have heard that X-windows will be support over a LAT type
    connection. This may get around a number of problems.
    
    
    		Steve Peters
    

Re: .5, .6

In the Mid-Atlantic Area (36.*), we too are out of node address space......
however, our local DIS folks do allow dial-up DECnet.
-Jeff

    I've added another small archive to tape::user2:[upload]x11_pics_2.zoo.

    This archive contains two more X11 snapshots.  They are similar, and
    show the Amiga making use of the DECwindows Window Manager, and 
    running the DECwindows Session Manager, along with other applications.

    Now, I'd like to get Motif. :^)

    Steve

    Re: .3 (Ethernet through cable TV)
    
    As I understand it, the project is still underway and has a couple
    of homes cabled. Jim Albryt is running it -- see the TELEWORK notefile.

I'm back running TSSnet/X-Windows on my Amiga, this time with a real-live
CBM A2065 (LAN Ethernet Card).  I am using TSSnet V1.02-ft1, which is
currently in field test.  My node name is "myAmi".

This release finally has the "long-awaited" file tranfer utilities.  
Hopefully Mail will make it into the V1.02 release, but no definite word
yet.  I expect a new ft version within a couple of weeks.

From the manual:

The TSSnet file utilities are a set of programs that allow the user to perform
various types of file transfer between the Amiga and any other DECnet node,
including another Amiga running TSSnet.  The utilities are very similar to
the AmigaDOS copy, list, rename, delete, and type commands and must be run
from an AmigaDOS Shell window, like those commands.  The commands available 
are:

	dcp	Copy files to or from remote nodes
	dls	List information about remote files
	dmv	Rename files on remote nodes
	dcat	Type files that reside on remote nodes
	dexec   Execute a command script on a remote node
	dpr	Print a file on a remote node's printer

More of my comments:  They work well.

It's pretty slick to transparently access your Amigas files from your VAX
(and vice-versa).  V1.02 will combine all these utilities into one NFT
type utility, similar to the DECnet-DOS scheme. Mail will look like VAX-mail,
but with some (needed) improvements such as store-and-forward.

Both NFT and Mail will also have a nice graphical interface, in the near
future.  Right now they are both strictly shell/window.  There are other
improvements to NCP, etc.

If anyone would like a demo, let me know and we can set up a time.

Steve

    I haven't seen any activity on this topic since October...  How is
    TSSnet doing?  Is it available, what hardware is recommended (CBM
    Ethernet card/ASDG LAN Rover/EnLAN/etc..).
    
    I have a 3000 at work and need some info to make a purchase of
    "the right stuff".
    
    John
    

    
    	I saw a demo of the TSSnet, X-windows, and CBM ethernet card at
    DECUS. The set-up worked well. They were running DECwrite and Notes
    on a VS3100 with the display on the AMIGA 3000.
    
    	I asked about ethernet cards and was told to buy CBM. GVP has
    had trouble with their card and are no longer selling it.
    
    	As for TSSnet, I don't think anyone else does DECnet. There are
    a couple of TCP/IP software packages.
    
    		Steve P.
    

No new news from Syndesis.  I haven't received anything from them lately,
so the last info in here about TSSnet is probably still valid.  I haven't
seen 'mail' yet, it's been RSN for about a year now - sound familiar?

I believe Ameristar is still selling an Ethernet board.  However, I just
received a note from Dale which states that Ameristar is dropping their
TCP/IP package, and recommending people to use CBM's software.  Interestingly,
the TCP/IP package lists at $275, while DECnet is $395.

I've been happy with the CBM board, but believe the Ameristar might perform
better.  Steve Sullivan may have more details.

Also in the note is the "announcement" of the X11R4 server as well as
various Programmer Toolkits.  This server sports improved performance,
as well as new extensions (SHAPE and MULTIBUFFERING), and other features.
The Motif WM, toolkit, and UIL is running under AmigaDOS, and will be out
later this year.

Steve

I'm still coming up to speed (slow speed) on Amiga, but if an Amiga has
PC slots, can you use a PC Ethernet controller in it?  For example, the
DEC EtherWORKS LC (DE100) with a list price in DECdirect of $272.

If you've got a Bridgeboard, I don't see any reason why you couldn't use
a PC Ethernet board.  However, the CBM A2065 can be had for (approx) $250
brand new, and doesn't require any additional hardware.  The software 
that implements DECnet and TCP/IP isn't cheap, though.

Is it possible to access the PC slots with the IBM emulator that people
are using?  If so, maybe someone could write a driver to utilize a DE100.
Those kind of hardware specifics are probably outside the scope of the 
emulator, however it's supposed to be real good.

Steve
 

Re: .13

>I've been happy with the CBM board, but believe the Ameristar might perform
>better.  Steve Sullivan may have more details.

I had heard that the CBM board was the Ameristar board: Commodore bought
the design.

Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Randy,

I can neither confirm, nor deny that - but I think you're right.
The board that performed better than the CBM board was the ASDG model.
At least that's what I recall.  Ultrix and NutraSweet have ruined my
short term memory :^)

Steve

Randy,

Commodore's Ethernet card is a re-layout of the Ameristar. Very minor changes,
with only one pal changed - presumably to get the autoconfig to provide 
Commodore as the manufacturer. I have used both, and in both pal configs.

The ASDG board does go very fast with little CPU overhead, but there is a
problem when using it with Syndesis DECnet. It will slow down and eventually
hang. This does not seem to happen with unaccelerated Amigas (68000 based).
There seems only a very very low priority for fixing this problem at 
Syndesis and/or ASDG. This makes the Commodore board the only viable
choice, though it seems to have worked with the GVP card (which was the
Hydra card, and the only viable option on an A500/A1000).

	-SES

Re: .15

>Is it possible to access the PC slots with the IBM emulator that people
>are using?

Nope, since there is no physical connection (other than DC lines) between the
Amiga and the PC slots. So you would need _at_ least a "dummy" bridgeboard.

<CB>