Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    What type of file format/attributes show up when you do a dir/full
    on the uploaded archive?  ( You did compress/archive it, right? )
    
    Both ARC and ZOO should produce Stream_LF with CR/Carriage Control
    format and attributes.  This is what X/Y/Zmodem all like to see.
    
    I have never had any trouble uploading files, but I have always 
    stuck with the ZOO + Handshake's X/Ymodem combination.
    I don't have a real answer for you, but you might want to try the
    newest versions of ZOO, and XMODEM (the one with DCL syntax:
    $ XMODEM/RECEIVE=BINARY )  These are available in the various archives.
    
    You could even try Kermit, but I wouldn't recommend it. :^)
    
    Good Luck,
    
    ~Steve
    

Re: .0

>    With xmodem I used 
>    
>    	$ xmodem -r filename

An IFF file (or and .ARC or .ZOO file) is binary.  Thus, you should have
used:

	$xmodem -ir filename

    Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try them.
    
    (no, I wasn't using -i. yes, that is obvious. oh well, it was after 
    midnight, does that count as an excuse?).
    
    The version of xmodem I got from WJG doesn't understand
    /RECEIVE=BINARY.  Where did you get yours from?
    
    Thanks
    Erg
    

    Randy's suggestion should get you uploading, no problem.
    I don't remember where I got the VMS'ified version of XMODEM,
    but it was in a saveset.
    
    You can copy the individual files from:
        smaug::user$940:[spodaryk.amiga.bin.xmodem]
    
$README.FIRST;5     COPY.COM;1          DESCRIP.MMS;16      README.;6          
UPDATE.DOC;4        XMODEM.CLD;19       XMODEM.COM;4        XMODEM.EXE;7       
XMODEM.HLB;5        XMODEM.HLP;15       XMODEM.LOG;1        

    The $README.FIRST describes how to configure it (it's easy).
    This Xmodem supports a DCL interface, as well as Ymodem and 
    1K packets for improved transfer times.  Of course Zmodem is
    better still, but I'm happy with Ymodem so far.  Someday I'll
    switch to VLT/Zmodem.
    
    ~Steve

    Thanks to you all!  Uploads work just fine!
    
    I thought you might like to know what I'm up to.
    
    I am drawing icons for a product we are building (a graphical programming
    tool) that needs 60-plus icons.  Once upon a time I was using
    DECW$PAINT (and not really enjoying it).  Now I own an Amiga with
    Deluxe Paint III and DECW$PAINT drives me NUTS.  (You think Amigas
    crash a lot?  I know of 11 nasty bugs in DECW$PAINT under VMS V5.1,
    every one of them will destroy your drawing (yes, I passed that info
    back to the developers)).  
    
    So, now I am creating screens of icons at home, ARCing them, uploading 
    them,  deARCing them, CSIXing them to sixel, UTOXing them to ddif, and 
    using DECW$PAINT to cut out the individual icons and write them to x11 
    files, which are then included into our product.  Nothin' to it!
    
    None of this would have been possible without the assistance and the s/w
    from the rest of the Amiga community on the net.  Without VMS XMODEM 
    and ARC and without CSIX (and without UTOX) and without the help with
    making them work I'd be stuck using DECW$PAINT to draw 60-plus icons 
    (in lots of variants of each so everyone on the project can add their
    (constructive) criticism)).  
    
    (I have dreams about DEC making a deal with EA to port DPIII to 
    DECwindows.  DPIII on a DECstation would be a knock-em-dead 
    graphics workstation.)
    
    Anyway, thanks again.  
    
    Yours
    Erg
                          

    	I don't know how likely it is that the people who would make
    such a deal - to port DPIII to DEC equipment - would read this
    conference.  If you feel that such a porting would be both possible
    and beneficial then you ought to take some official or semi-official
    action to bring this about.  Telling your boss and each of your
    60-odd critics should be the least you could do.  Our mutual interest
    in CBM computers is "nice" but we should also share an over-riding
    interest in helping make DEC computers the most desirable on the
    market.  Adding features that make YOUR work easier or more
    pleasant/less oppresive can only help.

    'tis about as likely that the right person (people?) would read
    this file as it is that I'd be able to coerce Central Eng. into
    arranging for my favorite spare-time software to be ported to
    my favorite work hardware.
    
    My experience is that getting something out of the ordinary done
    here (DEC) requires a crusade.  I can only handle one of those at
    a time (and I've got my shoulder behind one now - if you'll pardon
    the mixed metaphor (or even if you won't, it's too late, I already
    mixed it)).
    
    Anyway, "I've got mine, Jack" etc.  
    
    (There, a prime example of "what's wrong with this company" in one
    little note reply.)
    
    But seriously - the cutting edge, application wise, is on the personal
    computers now.  Anyone who ignores that is going to lose market share.
    Most people in DEC are sufficiently insulated from small machines that
    they can easily ignore that.  I am doing my small part to push DEC ahead 
    in one small area.  You are quite right that we've all gotta do the same 
    if we want the dear old security blanket to keep paying our salaries.
    
    Incidentally, I have a good idea what it is like to port software that
    was not designed to be ported.  The best way is to study the look'n
    feel, study the internal algorithms, and then write the code from
    scratch using what you've learned.  It's not a minor operation and
    it's not something DEC (or EA or ...) would be interested in unless
    there were big cash rewards on the other side.
    
    Do you really think that serious, big company, (DEC) marketing heavies
    would put that kind of effort (time, cash, people) into porting
    a non-business application (a paint program?  That's a toy by
    definition!).
    
    Until DEC starts selling graphics workstations, I don't think you'll
    see much call for real paint programs.  In other words, until a large
    part of the everyday use of the system involves drawing icons, drawing
    plans, drawing charts, drawing...  I don't think that there will be
    much official pull for real drawing tools.  Right now DEC is just
    starting to think about what can be done graphically (mostly 
    ball-and-string style applications - project planning, graphical
    programming, etc.).  Do you see Amiga style icons? (nope)  Do you
    see Amiga style graphics on pulldown menus (nope - to be fair, not
    that many business progs for the Amiga do either (games don't count)).
    What precisely does a DEC workstation user do with DECW$PAINT or with
    BITMAP?  Not much.  Pretty pics for their own sake.  DEC doesn't have
    graphics integrated into our "graphical" workstations yet.
    
    We will.
    
    I hope.
    
    Eventually.
    
    If enough pressure comes up from personal computer users.  (we are back
    to the crusade topic again).
    
    whoof, it's high up here on my soap box.  Guess I'll come down for a
    while.
    
    Yours
    Erg
    

    re: .7                                           
    
    You've presented some interesting ideas.  Large companies don't
    tend to be on the 'leading edge' for certain applications.  DP 
    and 'art' being some of them.  DEC will allow Apple, etc to test
    out the waters and, if it is adventageous to do so, will eventually
    enter the market.
    
    It almost seems as if workstations aren't being fully utilized.
    In some environments, people will use their workstation to do x%
    of their work, and a PC/Mac for the other y%.  Why not use the
    workstation for 100%?  Lack of specific software.  Certainly
    the hardware is capable.  It seems like (to me anyway) a 'complete'
    offering would be a real strong seller.                       
    
    If and when the NeXT machine becomes more prevelant, people may demand 
    a more integrated environment.  I'm hardly a marketing genius :^), so 
    maybe I'm full of hot air.  I do know that if my VAXstation had more
    'creativity' type applications my Amiga wouldn't be necessary. ( but
    it sure is fun :^)  I'd sure like to see DEC take some chances, and
    take a commanding lead in the workstation arena.
    
    Is anyone up for a 'midnight' art project for DEC/VAXstations?
    
    Should this discussion be continued elsewhere?
    
    Steve - don't you hate bad 1200 baud connections?

    	Much of what you say is true, so why does it all sound like
    an excuse not to write a one- or two-page memo (in some standard
    but "obvious" Postscript Font) to your boss and/or the managers
    who benefit from your art-work ?  You might simply explain why you
    need to work at home to complete this assignment - unless DEC will
    put a (insert hardware/software needs here) on your desk.  It really
    should include a brief description of the features DPIII has that
    you require for your work.  Just letting your clients know "THIS
    was done on my (insert . . . here), does that look great or what" 
    might generate some momentum.
    	I had to generate some floor plans not TOO long ago, not my
    normal sort of function, and had to take my work home to do it.
    My boss was not enthusiastic about that but there was no CAD equipment
    available to me here and I could fake it there.  The results were
    satisfactory.  We now have CAD equipment available - after hours.

    Well sometimes we get tools (from the toolshed) that make DEC equipment
    almost as usable as our favorite toy.  I have a program called SWING
    that enables me to move from one directory to the next, view files,
    move them... almost like DISKMASTER, but without the mouse or the
    color, even if my VT330 supports the mouse (hardware wise at least).
    
    Jean
    

WHERE can I get Swing?  I've been praying for something like this 
for years for the VAX.

Randy

    I leafed trough VTX (now there's another gripe, everytime I use VTX,
    they change things around, new menus, changed names...I have to
    re-learn all the paths everytime, yuck) and somewhere in there there is
    a software toolshed that gives a node name where the toolkit lives.
    There is also a description of all kinds of applications, some are dumb,
    but some are excellent (like swing)
    
    
    I have forgotten where it came from, but if I am pressed, I will find
    out.  Also there is a note file for the toolshed (I only looked at it
    when my old swing stopped working, it had to be re-linked under 5.x)
    
    Jean
    

Try the notes conference on METOO::TOOLSHED

John

    re .9, a very little crusade..
    
    The DECwindows look'n feel was designed on a Mac.  The Graphics Design
    group in the Mill uses Macs.  I'll check with some of those people
    and see if they have made any attempt to get a real graphics tool
    for DEC's machines (one of the designers from the Mill is working 
    with us on this project - he's using a Mac, I'm using an Amiga, 
    kind of amusing, in a sad sort of way).
    
    I am expecting to find out that the people who seriously do graphics
    on computers are using other machines (Macs) and are as bigoted about
    them as I am about mine (well, mine's just obviously better!...).
    It may well be that the people who can seriously justify needing such
    a tool on DEC machines have already solved their problem other ways.
    Still, I know I'd rather be able to do fancy artwork here than having
    to go home to do it.  Probably others feel the same way.  I'll poke 
    around and see what interest I can stir up.
    
    Yours
    Erg

    Has anyone successfully uploaded ASCII or binaries using VLT/ZMODEM?
    
    Whenever I try I get a skip command then the DONE signal.  My procedure
    is to to TYPE "rz filnam" on the VAX, then select SEND FILE in VLT.
    I get the SEND window with the file and its attributes loaded, then
    2 beeps, SKIP, then DONE.  XMODEM/YMODEM work ok.  Any ideas?
    
    mark