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Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Title:AMIGA NOTES
Notice:Join us in the *NEW* conference - HYDRA::AMIGA_V2
Moderator:HYDRA::MOORE
Created:Sat Apr 26 1986
Last Modified:Wed Feb 05 1992
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5378
Total number of notes:38326

2842.0. "Draw 2000 vs XCAD Designer" by HPSCAD::GATULIS (Frank Gatulis) Fri Aug 18 1989 15:10

    Anybody out there who has used both DRAW 2000 and XCAD Designer
    (not full xcad) that could comment on the differences?
      - functionality (Draw 2000 meets my needs)
      - performance (Draw 2000 is terriblly slow, want more speed)
      - user interface (think Draw 2000 is poor)
      - output (draw 2000 gives hpgl but no postscript)
        etc
        
    I have DRAW 2000 but have never seen XCAD Designer and would 
    consider upgrading.   Folks at the Memory Location (Don)
    believes XCAD Designer is far superior.
    
    Thanks
    
    Frank
      
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2842.1quick 'n dirty...FRAMBO::BALZERChristian Balzer DTN:785-1029Fri Aug 18 1989 15:2913
    
    A quick reply, before heading into the weekend...
    I only saw XCad a couple of times, not Xcad designer.
    It's much more functional than Draw 2000, but lacked an undo function
    in the version I saw!
    It performs several times better than Draw 2000.
    It's user interface sucks even more than Draw 2000's (no menus)...
    Don't remember postscript output, but could do arbitrary rasters,
    so your safe when that 15000 dpi printer comes along. ;-)
    
    Regards,
    
    <CB>
2842.2LEDS::ACCIARDISat Aug 19 1989 03:1957
    
    I have both Aegis Draw Plus (which grew into Draw2000) and the original
    XCAD.  In a nutshell...
    
    XCAD is a real, genuine 2D drafting program, and is in fact a poorly
    disguised clone of an older Computervision package.  It is incredibly
    fast and powerful.  However...
    
    XCAD works on the 'VERB/NOUN/MODIFIER' principle.  When you open an
    XCAD screen, there is a 'soft' button menu displayed on the top of your
    screen.  This first menu is filled with verbs like OPEN, DRAW,
    TRIM, CREATE, etc.  When you select one of these verbs, the menu is
    replaced by a NOUN menu, filled with goodies like LINE, CIRCLE, ARC
    etc.  After selecting a noun, you are presented with a MODIFIER menu
    filled with PERPENDICULAR, HORIZONTAL, VERTICLE, etc.  You get the
    idea.
    
    XCAD is not easy to use.  To build a decent interface, you can create
    your own custom menus, whereby a single mouse click can set into motion
    hundreds of commands.  You might build a menu for geometry
    construction, and use a different custom menu for detailing and
    dimensioning.  Menus are created using Deluxe Paint or any painting
    program and then converting the resulting IFF brush into an XCAD menu
    using a supplied utility.
    
    I'd heard that someone had developed a complete user-friendly front end
    for XCAD; this bears watching.  As the package currently stands, it is
    not acceptable for the casual user.  It takes just too much effort and
    button pushing to master.  A shame, really, since the program has been
    benchmarked by an independant CAD rating agency as being 40 times
    faster than AutoCAD running on a 8 MHz IBM AT.
    
    I can testify that it's pan/zoom/redraw performance is breathtaking.  I
    use UniGRAPHICS on a megaTEK workstation and a Vax 8800, and the
    pathetic little Amiga can redraw much faster than $40K worth of custom
    display hardware.
    
    XCAD supports a multitude of plotters, including HPGL, but no
    PostScript output.  There are PD utilities to convert HPGL files to
    XCAD and XCAD to PostScript.
    
    Now, on to Draw2000.  Draw is a nice little freehand drafting program
    (OK, you can enter coordinates) but it can't touch XCAD (or AutoCAD or
    any other CAD) as a genuine CAD program that a real mechanical engineer
    would feel comfortable with.  At risk of getting singed, I'd guess (not
    much hands-on experience) that it's comparable to MacDraw.  It's fine
    for simple floor plans or layout work, but I couldn't imagine being
    able to design, say, a disk drive using it.
    
    Unfortunately, until AutoCAD appears for the Amiga (which WAS rumored
    some time back), the Amiga is NOT a contender for serious CAD work.  If
    that was my main goal in life, I'd buy a 386 machine and AutoCAD.
    
    Ed.
    
    
    
2842.3LEDS::ACCIARDISat Aug 19 1989 03:3844
    
    There's an important point I'd like to make concerning the relationship
    between the hardware and the user.
    
    As you may have gathered from my previous reply, I use CAD 8 hours a
    day at work.  We run McDonnell Douglas' UniGraphics package, which is
    one of the most powerful 3D packages in the industry.  The executable
    is something like 13 MB in size!
    
    Anyway, UniGraphics runs on a variety of platforms, including the
    VaxStations and DecStations.  My group is using older MegaTEK
    workstations; massive, noisy behemoths that radiate about 3 KW of heat
    and are as noisy as a car wash.  These MegaTek monsters actually have
    two monitors; one for displaying command menus, and a larger color
    display for the drawing area.
    
    Commands are executed in heirarchal fashion using a large 'Button Box'.
    The Button Box has about 64 lighted keys that represent all available
    commands.  A good user (like me :^)) can really go to town on that 'ol
    Button Box, banging in the commands faster that the eye can follow.
    
    The newer workstations do not have a Button Box; menus are displayed on
    the single large monitor and must be selected by pointing and clicking
    with the mouse.
    
    Anyway, our marketing folks would have you believe that UniGraphics
    runs much faster on a DecStation than on a VAX/MegaTek combination, and
    technically, they're correct.  The DecStation really screams, and can
    redraw much faster that the ancient MegaTek hardware.
    
    However, there ain't a mousketeer on earth who can click those silly
    soft menus as fast as I can hammer my Button Box.  In fact, I have a
    standing challenge to any DecStation user to drag race my poor old
    MegaTek in building a complex model.  I'd have banged out a few hundred
    commands before he could even read his screen menu.
    
    The point is that all the fancy hardware in the world ain't gonna help
    if you can't get the commands into the machine fast enough to keep up
    with the machine.  This is a major failing with all PC based CAD
    systems.  A digitizing tablet is some help, but they'll have to pry my
    Button Box from my cold dead fingers.
    
    Ed
    
2842.4I think Ed is slipping...;-}STAR::ROBINSONMon Aug 21 1989 15:057
     There is a front end / friendly interface for XCAD that got a good
     review in a recent Amiga mag. The reviewer said the same thing Ed
     said about XCAD without it. The summary of the review was that
     now you could use XCAD where before you couldn't. I'm surprised
     you don't have it, Ed. Imagine recommending a PC & Autocad!
     ;-)
     Dave                           
2842.5XCAD has a new publisherLEDS::ACCIARDIMon Aug 21 1989 23:2115
    
    Actually, XCAD product support is no longer provided by Haitex, but
    has been transferred to someone else.  I can get the information, but
    to my horror I'd heard that the new publisher WOULD NOT support users
    who had purchased it from Haitex.   Grrrr...
    
    I'm also pretty certain that the package that I paid $350 (retail=$595)
    is now the entry level package, with a $149 retail price.  There is an
    even more powerful XCAD Professional with a much higher price tag.
    
    I'll post the info here if I can find it.  However, due to an
    additional mouth in my home, there's not much money these days for
    software.
    
    Ed.
2842.6Are we confused?HPSCAD::GATULISFrank GatulisTue Aug 22 1989 03:0923
    
    I think your mistaken Ed.  If I inderstand it correctly, the pkg
    you bought is still the top of the line and is now simply called
    XCAD Professional.  There is a new (3 month old) stripped down
    version called XCAD Designer which is the thing that lists for 
    about $150.  That's exactly why I started this note in the first
    place (to see how the new XCAD product compared with Draw 2000
    in the same price range).  Update: Now being an owner of XCAD
    Designer I can say first hand that (IMO) XCAD is FAR superior to
    Draw 2000 in every respect.   It's  fairly simple to use and I
    find the manual pretty good.   It has less functionality than 
    XCAD,  has what I think is a much better user interface and
    does graphics updates at what I think is incredible speed.  I love
    it!  
    
    I think that all the commands that are common to both programs
    can be entered into XCAD Designer via the console window in exactly
    the same manner and format as the full blown XCAD.
    
    Have no fear Ed. The pkg you bought still cost big bucks!
    
    Frank
    
2842.7whew!LEDS::ACCIARDITue Aug 22 1989 11:459
    
    Thanks Frank.  My package is one of those MIL-spec 3" thick glossy
    boxes and says 'XCAD Designer' on the front. I guess they just changed
    the name.
    
    I'm still going to try to find out just what the story is with product
    support.
    
    Ed.
2842.8XCad Designer, filled polygon help.HPSRAD::BUSCHDave Busch, MRO1-2/S10Fri Mar 22 1991 13:238
Are there any active XCad Designer users out there? I need some help. One of my 
biggest complaints about XCad is the poor manual. There is one feature that I am
trying to use and can't get to work NOHOW! Please, can someone tell me how to 
draw a FILLED polygon? I want to draw a rectangle that is filled with solid 
black but none of the stuff in the manual works for me.

Dave