Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Re .0:
    
    I'm starting to get serious about configuring an Amiga, so this is VERY
    interesting to me.  I infer (and will verify when next I visit my
    favorite Amiga shop) that the A590 provides all of the following:
    1. a built-in 20MB drive (a reasonable size for a smallish system)
    2. accomodation for at least one additional SCSI drive
    3. sockets for 2MB of expansion RAM (please confirm)
    4. its own separate power supply (oh boy, another brick 8^)
    
    Whereas the minimum viable A500 configuration needs the A501 (or
    equivalent) internal memory/clock board and a second diskette drive, my
    impression is that a good general purpose configuration wants at least
    a 20MB hard disk and a total of 3MB of memory.  Unless I'm guilty of
    wishful thinking in #3 above, the A590 is EXACTLY what I'd need to do
    what I want.
    
    Of course, for a "few Dollars more" ($1000 or so), one could start with
    the A2000HD (with an A2090 controller and 40MB drive built in) and add
    an 8MB memory expansion (2MB populated).  Then as the system grows to
    include a BridgeBoard and/or 680x0 CPU expansion, additional memory can
    be added.  If money were no object, this would be my system of choice. 
    (I'd LOVE to have a BridgeBoard and fire up MS DOS in a window to show
    off for my friends and neighbors.  That's putting it in its place! 8^)
    The A2000 also provides a number of OTHER nice features, not the least
    of which is the ability to add a FlickerFixer and multi-sync monitor.
    
    Returning to the "real world" though, I'm pleased to think that I can
    configure an A500+A501+A590 system that will do all that I really need
    to do -- home productivity, desk-top publishing, a fair amount of what
    we've come to call "creativity" stuff, and games (of course 8^).

    Re: .1
    
    Yup, the A590 does all the things you want. And will support up
    to seven SCSI units...
    
    Wow, this must be one of my shortest replies...
    
    Regards,
            
    <CB>                                    

    Hi,
    
    I picked up local magazine which reviewed the A590. It's not the best
    but had more information than I had previously including some
    benchmarks etc.
    
    I also got the latest A500 brochure which included the A590 !
    
    The thing I first noticed when reading this new info was that there is
    an XT style disk interface. The magazine article indicated that the
    20MB drive actually runs off this.
    
    I'm interested to know whether or not this is true. I've got an old
    ST506 10MB drive I would like to use, and am anticipating pruchasing a
    A590 eventually. If the interface was available it would save buying
    one of those Adaptec things.
    
    Regards
    	Mike

    Re: .3
    
    Sorry, no go. There's only one XT-interface, and that's used for
    the internal HD. I don't know how compatible XT and ST506 are, too.
    You'll need an Adaptec thingie, but I doubt that it's worth that
    for just 10MB...
    
    Regards,
    
    <CB>

Hello again !
I'm back with a situation after two months of using the A590.
It works all very fine and it makes the A500 a true workstation and development
machine.
Yes for all the 4 points in answer 1. The memory chips are not the cheapest
as they have to be low heating. The power unit looks like that of the A500
but you don't switch it as it's automatic when you start the A500 power unit
(you just let it ON). The SCSI devices may be connected via a 21 pin connector
and they may be up to 6 or 7 (I don't remember exactely).
My actual configuration consists in A500+A501+A590+A1010 and I'll upgrade
in time to a total of 3MB via the A590. I can say that because of the hard disc,
the 1MB I have is already not bad at all (no more RAM: or resident intensive
usage).
The software they give with the A590 is also very easy to use and effective
(you use it with your future SCSI drives too).
The XT interface (ref. 3) can only be used if you replace the internal Epson
drive in the A590 with another XT compatible (better keep the Epson and add
a SCSI in time).
The noise of the unit (the ventilation not the drive) is lower than that of an
usual PC (but it's very audible).
For the price you pay the A590 the improvement is really impressive.
I think the others A500 hard drive manufacturers will have to cut prices
seriously which is not bad for us the users.
Regards, Sorin

    Hello,
    In the November issue form Amiga User International (UK) there is
    mention about the possibility of a future A590 from Commodore
    containing 30MB or 50MB drives (same specs. as A590).
    Sorin

    Sorry not "issue form" but "issue from".
    Sorin

 I talked to the people at The Memory Location today about
 getting an A590 at the $519 Ed. discount price. The response was
 "Don't bother -slow as hell etc.", and they said they recommend
 Supra or GVP for expansion HD and mem.  Well, I respect these guys'
 opinions, but I also respect the opinions of people in this conference,
 so I thought I go down the ol' hard drive which-is-best hole again.

 If price was not a consideration, which of the three controllers is better,
 A590, Supra (for A500) or GVP (for A500)?  My impression was the A590
 was better, especially if you consider the install/config software and
 company support. Am I wrong?

 What about the memory add on? Are there pluses or minus that don't 
 meet the eye?  The A590 comes with an empty 2 meg board, the supra and 
 GVP require extra boards. Again, without getting into price is there 
 any extra flexibility benefit, or chip-type benefit?

 Finally, (gulp) I know that the drive that comes with the A590
 is a non-scsi dog. However, is it possible that the $519 for a box, auto boot 
 controller, empty 2 meg board, power supply and nice software is worth it
 even if I "throw away" the drive? 

 I tried to figure out the equivilent configuration for supra and GVP
 using the Abel price list but couldn't be positive about what I need?
 It is probably cheaper to go SCSI with an Abel supra/GVP package than to
 just throw away the A590 drive and buy a SCSI, but the mail order
 inconvenience is also worth something. I'd want to go about 40 megs, 
 maybe the Quantum.

 Did I miss anything?

 Thanks for your insights?
 Dave

    I have the Supra controller and memory.  I am using RD53s for drives. 
    The controller and 2MB memory cost approx. $420.00.  I have had no
    major problems with either.  Quarterback hangs from time to time but I
    called Supra today and they are going to send me a new PAL chip.
    Using Diskperf I am getting about 180K/sec reads with 32K buffers.  I
    had an RD54(maxtor xt-2190) connected and got 200k+/sec reads.  I do
    not think the speed is too bad coming from an A500->supra scsi->adaptec
    4000a->ST-506 hard drive.  But then again I have nothing to compare
    against.  If you buy the Supra memory, you will have to get the power
    for it from the drive power supply.  The scsi interface runs ok using
    the C= power brick.
    
    
    mark

Hello,

As I used only the A590 on my Ami, I cannot tell how another one is but for me
the A590 is sufficiently fast (in comparison with the damned slow floppy drives
everything is fast). Do you intend to use a database ?
Actually you can also buy at interesting prices the A590 with 2MB. If you find
it too slow, in time you can allways add a SCSI drive and use the XT drive as a
secondary drive. The provided software is also very easy to use and complete.
My only problem is the noise which is very audible as the fan is oriented
upward and the A590 stays at your Ami's left side. I don't know how noisy are
the other solutions (I generally hate this kind of noise). The drive itself
is silent in exchange.
It's also true that the A590 fits well aesthetically with the A500 but this is
a minor criteria of selection. I intend to upgrade my A590 with 2MB obtaining a
total of 3MB (I have the A501 extention). In this case I'll use much more the
resident programs and the RAD: (virtual disk). This will be real fast. I'll use
the hard disk only for booting, data and other programs which I don't use
frequently.
I wonder if something like FaccII or else can do a disk cache using 1MB of the
3 MB, as this could really improve performance even if the XT in the A590 is
not so fast.
For developing, 3MB divided in 1MB user space, 1MB system (residents..) and
1MB disk cache should not be bad. But all this applies also to another compound
device than A590.
The A590 proved reliable until now, extremely useful and well integrated, and in
conclusion I recommend it (I cannot compare it with the other possibilities).
Maybe the price is also the best, if it still is.

Regards,
Sorin

    Re: .8, .10
    
    Well...
    
    Controller & software wise the A590 is currently the best solution,
    DMA (CHIPmem DMA contention free) and a nice user interface with
    complete hardblock and scsidirect support.
    GVP and Supra are (to the best of my knowledge) non-DMA controllers,
    which becomes _very_ noticable in "real" multitasking environments.
    The A590 can be upgraded with 512KB, 1MB, or 2MB.
    The drive _is_ a dog, but you can get ~180KB max reads from it,
    too. 
    The idea of using it as a secondary (backup) drive for a nice SCSI
    drive is exactly what I would do (not regarding the price ;-).
    
    As far as (intelligently) chaching hard disks is concerned, the
    only solution I'm aware of is Blitzdisk from Microsmiths. It came
    along with my TxED+ (which I still use, despite the fact that it
    sucks exessivly). I have no idea if it can purchased seperatly.
                                                     

    Re .8:

>   I talked to the people at The Memory Location today about getting an
>   A590 at the $519 Ed. discount price. The response was "Don't bother
>   -slow as hell etc.", and they said they recommend Supra or GVP for
>   expansion HD and mem.  Well, I respect these guys' opinions, but I also
>   respect the opinions of people in this conference, so I thought I go
>   down the ol' hard drive which-is-best hole again.
    
    I have the A590 and I LOVE it.  The "slow as hell" attribution seems to
    come from a combination of misinformation (there's one guy at the
    Memory Location who is a veritable fount of such -- I try to steer
    clear of him, but he's also the most likely to glom onto anyone he
    thinks he can impress with his "great knowledge") based on a flawed
    test published in Amiga World and the basic comparison of apples and
    pomegranites that comes when you match a decent SCSI drive against an
    uninspired ST506 drive such as the one that comes in the A590.
    
    Compared to using floppies, even the A590's built-in drive flies like
    the wind.  Its DMA implementation fixes the problems that dogged (like
    that choice of word? 8^) the A2090/a controllers.  Frankly, an A500
    with 1MB and the base 68000 CPU isn't likely to be able to stress the
    controller in the A590 in any meaningful way.  You just can't run
    enough different things in that size configuration to load it down. 
    Once you add 2MB to the A590 and increase the chip ram to 1MB you COULD
    stress it a bit, but the DMA implementation of the A590 SHOULD perform
    better than either the Supra or GVP, which both use the 680x0 to move
    data between the controller and user memory spaces.
    
    Bottom line:  Buy the A590 at $519 (an EXCELLENT price).  20MB isn't
    all the disk in the world, but it's a real good start.  If/when you
    need more, buy a SCSI drive to supplement or replace the built-in ST506
    drive.
    

    re: .8
    Maybe you knew this already, but...

    I believe one of the stipulations in the educational price deal is that
    you must purchase a 'complete' system, i.e. A500 or A2000 + monitor +...
    You can't buy add-on products alone.

    And all this time I thought the "Ed. discount" had something to do with
    the infamous Acciardi...

re: .13 the fine print.  

Actually, the latest news I have says we have until
March 31 to buy non bundled products. I think I read it on usenet and the
plan was confirmed at The Memory Location as being availbale now.

So those sittling on the fence...

Hi,

I'm getting close to buying an A590 (at last). I'm also thinking about fitting
some extra memory, however due to budgets etc I'd prefer to keep the memory 
expansion down to 1MB for the moment.

However I've heard that the 2091 has a problem when it is not fully populated
with expansion memory, and as the A590 is pretty much the same controller it
might have this supposed problem.

Anyone heard anything along these lines ?

Regards
	Mike

    Re .16:
    
    I have an A590 that I've used for three months with no expansion memory
    and for six months more with 1MB installed.  Someday I'll spring for
    another MB to finish the job.
    
    I have had NO MEMORY PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER!  When expanding, you MUST
    move the appropriate jumper within the A590 to indicate how much memory
    is present.  That's called out in the instructions that come with it.
    
    Enjoy!                  

Thanks Bill,

a 2mb A500 will be nice...

Mike

    re -2
    
    I ran with a 1mb config for 3 month with no problem either.
    
    Ken