Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    Honestly, the best thing that I have found to deal with those stupid
    things is to ditch xmodem/kermit completely, and download using
    zmodem.
    
    zmodem doesn't care what format the arc/zoo file is in.  There are
    several notes in here that have info about zmodem and term programs
    that support it.
    
    The nicest thing about zmodem is that if a transfer is interrupted
    in the middle, you don't have to restart from the beginning, as
    it will restart from the middle of a download.  If you can't find
    the info, let someone know here and I'm sure that you can get help

    
    I've found that Xmodem requires files to be in STREAM_LF format on the
    VMS end and Kermit likes 510 byte format.  
    
    Which terminal program are you using on the Amiga?  Also, tell us the
    size (in VMS blocks) of the Xmodem and Kermit programs that you are
    using on your Vax.  There were several versions of Xmodem that were
    going around, but not all of them worked for everyone.
    
    If you like, you can copy the versions of Xmodem and CVTARC that are in
    LEDS3::USER6:[ACCIARDI.AMIGA] to your own account.  These work
    perfectly with tyhe HandShake terminal program.
    
    Ed.

    Hi,
    	Give me a call on MONDAY Morning 234-5933 
    
    I have TWO ZMODEM programs which I could let you have!!
    The only problem with them BOTH is that they are not VT compatable
    So I use HANDSHAKE 2.12a for using editing looking at this note file
    
    The only problem I'm finding at the moment is that I'm getting bad down
    loads what ever I do..(Poss B.T. of the dial back microvax??? any Ideas
    
    The AMI GURU's using ARC 0.22 and ZOO 2.00 whereas on the VAX I'm using
    Zoo 2.01  and Arc ?
    			
    			Regards
    			Steve G...
    

    As previous replies have said, and as many other notes in this
    notesfile recount to great length, you are being bitten by the infamous
    VMS filetype problem.  The _whole_ problem is in VMS.  The reason
    that there is no CVTARC program on the Amiga is that Amy has only
    one type of file structure.
    
    To solve your problem, you might get hold of ZMODEM for VMS and
    a compatible terminal emulator program for the Amiga.  Another
    possibility is this:  get ARC or ZOO for VMS.  Take, say, a .ARC
    file and try to read it with VMS ARC.  If you can't, run the file
    through CVTARC and play with the options until you can.  Do a DIR/FULL
    and take careful note of the file type.  It will be either STREAM-LF
    or some record-oriented organization.
    
    Now, go back and read the CVTARC documentation.  Take the file you
    can read with VMS ARC, and run it through CVTARC to get a version
    with the other filetype.  Call the converted file something else.
    Download _both_ .ARC files to your Amiga, then see which one works
    OK with Amiga ARC.  Keep notes about which commands you used to
    make the file transfer.
    
    At the end of all this, you will have a way to check archives on
    the VAX before downloading, and a way to get them downloaded
    successfully.  This kind of trial and error approach was the only
    way I could get my own downloading debugged about two years ago.
    
    BTW, any particular file in one of the online archives could be
    in either file format, so it's always worth checking before attempting
    to download.
    
    Wes

    	Will the real Mr. Wilson please stand up????(please identify your
    self so I can Phone you!!!
    
    		Steve G

    RE: .-1
    
    Sorry, Steve...I realize I haven't introduced me.  Tony Wilson at
    Birmingham, Alabama.  DTN 369-5500 or (205) 969-5500.
    
    

    re .4
    
    FWIW (I like that abbreviation), I've KERMITed an ARC file, had it
    fail, CVTARCed it, KERMITed it again and still had it fail.
    
    Will look at ZMODEM and attempt JRcomm xfer.  Thanks for the help.
    
    Tony

    re: .-1
    
    Well, if you've followed all the steps I laid out and it still doesn't
    work, then you've hit a tough problem.  Time to fall back on Plouff's
    Downloading Rule #4:
    
    	When all else fails, invite someone over who has successfully
    	downloaded stuff from a VMS system, and work through the steps
    	with him.
    
    The successful person in this case doesn't necessarily have to be an
    Amiga owner. Because of the myriad complications of dealing with VMS,
    VAXen and terminal servers, your frustration is well justified.
    
    As a confidence-builder, try snagging something off a local bulletin
    board system.  Amazing how much easier micro-based BBSes are to
    deal with!
    
    Good luck,
    
    Wes 

    I seem to have worked it out to a degree where the only failures to
    transfer are due to either my own stupidity or the odd rare glitch on
    the telephone line. I have devised a simple set of rules which might be
    of help...
    
    1.	always attempt to "list" the contents of the archive on the Vax.
    (this includes both "ZOO" and "ARC" archives)
    2. If I get a clean listing then the archive needs to be converted prior
    to downloading to Amy.
    3.	Converting is simple. "CVTARC V FRED.ARC/ZOO FRED1.ARC/ZOO". CVTARC
    works in both Zoo and ARC formats.
    4. If I get some sort of error messsage during the list attempt...."an
    entry in qmouse16.zoo has a bad header......"etc, then I can be
    reasonably confident that the download will work.
    
    For info, I'm using VT200 at home and Kermit on the VAX.
    
    BTW, One of the techs here has been raving about CKermit, saying that
    it uses packet sizes upto 1900 bytes and that he is achieving transfer
    times 6-8 times faster than using good old vanilla kermit. Note that he
    is achieving this on an AT clone. I tried but got the same result as
    always....about 70 bytes per packet. Does anyone out there know of an
    Amy kermit that can handle a larger packet size?

    Re: .9
    
    VLT's Kermit protocol allows for large blocklenghts.
    The latest version of CKermit for the Amiga might, too. I'll have
    to check on that one, though.
    
    <CB>

I do the same thing - list on VMS before downloading. However, I use ZMODEM
(or XMODEM) and need it to list cleanly on VMS before downloading,
if I get the "bad header" junk:

		$ CVTARC U arcfile/zoofile


BTW - CVTARC is just a file format converter. It will work on *any* file
(it doesn't know about arc/zoo, but the phase of the moon can trouble it now
and then :-)

John

    Thanks, I didn't know about the /ZOO switch (sorry, that's an old
    PDP-11 term)...qualifier in VMSZOO.  I'll give it another try.
    
    Tony

	This isn't a zoo disaster, I guess it's more of a tip.  Do you ever
wait for 20 min. to de-zoo a file?  I tried something new.  I have Diskmaster,
by the way, and that's where I got the idea from.  Delete everything in your 
RAM: disk and move the .zoo file into it.  Then de-zoo within the RAM: disk.
It zaps right out in seconds.  Then you can sort through the stuff, get rid
of anything you don't want, or simply copy it all over to the disk you want.
That way it ties up less CPU time with the disk when you're, say, downloading 
another bunch of stuff.  
	Seems like a roundabout way to do things (and probably useless for 
people with 2000's or 2500's and $memory$) but on stock 500's it does help out.

--mikie--