Conference hydra::amiga_v1

>    < Note 2560.0 by GUCCI::HERB >
>                              -< Basic or c???? >-
>
>    I am thinking about starting to program in C but I have a few
>    questions......
>    
>    1.  Which is better Aztec C or Lattice C ???
>    
>    2.  What is the difference between C and Modula-2?
>    
>    3.  I still do not understand how to get graphics and sound from
>    C.  I believe it uses libraries but do the libraries come with the
>    disk or do you make your own or what??????
The amiga manual set (there is a new exec book for 1.3 BTW) contains
    the library sources which you could type in, and descriptions of
    their use.  They appear to be
    proprietary so you have to buy them or type them I think.  I get
    the impression that you can buy them with a commerical compiler
    or as an enhancement but I'm not sure.  
    >    
>    4.  Is there a public domain version of C??
Yes; it generates assembler source code, so you need an assembler which
    is also PD and I never got it to work but I didn't try very hard;
    you also need a linker.  In other words the pieces are spread all
    over creation.
    >    
>    matt
    
People here make it sound like running c wihtout a hard disk or lots
    of ram to hold the compiler files is annoying difficult, so I may
    buy lots of ram to do anim and also run a compiler faster.  I'm
    not sure about my budget.
    Tom
    

    Oh, incidentally, it might be worth pointing out that in my impressoin,
    most of the official include files in C are just pointers of
    where in the ROM resident libraries important often used routines
    are, with identifier assignments to make it easier to read the code.

    That's why it's possible to use these in Amiga BASIC.  However,
    there are other libraries that really are code that does work. 
    I think IEEE double precision math is like that, not in ROM.
    These can be used in BASIC too, if you make the files with the
    pointers.Tom

    > Modula-2
    
    I can't really compare Modula-2 against the C compilers, but I went
    for Modula-2 because I've programmed in PASCAL extensively the last
    few years, so wanted a language at home which was "comfortable"
    to use. Modula-2 is easy to use after having used PASCAL. It also
    enforces structured programming techniques etc, but has facilities
    above and beyond that of PASCAL. It also takes a similiar approach
    to C in that the standard i/o is supplied by library routines.
    
    I bought Benchmark Modula-2. I now run in a 1MB/2 floppy config.
    I suspect I could operate in a single drive environment quite easily
    as once your are in the editor (Emacs style) you can compile, link and
    run programs from within the editor simply by pressing F2,F3,F4.
    In fact the compiler is loaded into memory and only the linker is
    loaded from disk when invoked, so if you managed your memory correctly
    you could stick that in the RAM: as well. Compilation seems quite
    fast (it's a single pass compiler). Not sure if the program sizes
    are large or small compared say to a C equivalent. The standard
    compiler package comes with libraries for alll of the standard
    operating system calls.
    
    Rather than carry on too much about it, I'll leave it at that and
    should anyone want further comments on the package I'll be happy
    to oblige.
    
    Mike
    

>    1.  Which is better Aztec C or Lattice C ???
    
    The lead keeps going back and forth between the two, and there are
    partisans on either side.  (I chose Aztec.)  At the moment Lattice
    v5.0 produces better code than Aztec v3.6, but there will be a new
    revision within a couple of months.  One thing to keep in mind is
    that the two are not totally compatible in their functions, so a
    program which compiles with one may need tweaking to compile with
    the other.
    
    As of yet there is no Borland, Microsoft or other large company
    product on the horizon.
    
>    2.  What is the difference between C and Modula-2?
    
    Fundamentally different outlook on how a programming language should
    be written.  The two have very different strengths and weaknesses.
    The "native" language of the Amiga is C, just as the Macintosh leans
    heavily to Pascal.
    
>    3.  I still do not understand how to get graphics and sound from
>    C.  I believe it uses libraries but do the libraries come with the
>    disk or do you make your own or what??????

    Function libraries controlling graphics and sound are part of the
    operating system and are described in detail in the "ROM Kernel
    Manuals."  All commercial compilers come with include files or other
    mechanism (I'm not a Modula user) which let you tap into the libraries.
    The include files are licensed by Commodore and can also be obtained
    by sending to Commodore for the latest "Native Developer's Update,"
    although 99% of all users have no real need to do so.
    
    To learn how to program the Amiga's special features, I recommend
    reading _Inside the Amiga with C_, author forgotten, or _Programmer's
    Guide to the Amiga_ by Rob Peck.  The latter has many typoes in
    its first edition.  The guides by Mortimore didn't impress me.
>    4.  Is there a public domain version of C??
    
    Two, in fact.  Small C (a descendent of the CP/M version) and Sozobon
    C (ported from the Atari ST) are both available on Fred Fish disks
    and somewhere online here.  Both work with public domain assemblers
    and linkers.  However, both lack both Amiga library include files
    and the standard C function library.  Not recommended for beginners.
    
    Wes

    What makes C better than Basic besides it being more compatible?
    
    matt
    

    Re .5:
    
    > What makes C better than Basic besides it being more compatible?
    
    Structure, modularity, recursion.  These are things you can create for
    yourself in most languages, but C (and similar languages) provides more
    support for them than BASIC.  It's useful to be able to view a function
    as an atomic operation and not have to worry about whether it is using
    some of the same variables you are.  The use of pointers and structures
    is also a more elegant way to solve some problems.
    
    
    				-- edp