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Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Title:AMIGA NOTES
Notice:Join us in the *NEW* conference - HYDRA::AMIGA_V2
Moderator:HYDRA::MOORE
Created:Sat Apr 26 1986
Last Modified:Wed Feb 05 1992
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5378
Total number of notes:38326

1488.0. "Jay Miner Talks! Film @ 11:00" by LEDS::ACCIARDI (I Blit, therefore I am...) Tue Jun 21 1988 12:30

    
    Theres a very interesting interview with Jay Miner in the latest
    issue of INFO magazine.  If you don't know who Jay Miner is, go
    back to note 1.0.  Seriously, Jay Miner was the chief architect
    of the Amiga 1000 and VLSI designer extraordanaire.
    
    Miner recounts the early days of Amiga Inc. and the constant battle
    between Engineering (who wanted to make the Amiga all-powerful)
    and Marketing, who wanted to cripple it in the name of lower costs.
    
    He also told of the battle with Atari over the Amiga custom chip
    set, and how Commodore rescued the entire program.  Although Miner
    is bitter over the way things turned out, he did claim that CBM
    has treated him very fairly.
    
    In one of the most disturbing statements, Miner claims that the Amiga
    has no hope of ever becoming a real player like IBM or Apple. He feels
    that too much time was wasted from 1985 to 1987, where there was
    virtually no advertising or dealer support.  He claimed that the
    non-recognition of the Amiga compared to Apple and IBM "... is
    sickening."  He did feel that the Amiga has left a remarkable legacy,
    since the whole world is suddenly interested in superb graphics, sound,
    and multitasking. In fact, he claims that the Mac II was largely
    inspired by the Amiga, although the Amiga is of course a ..."much
    better design."  How's that for objectivity? 
    
    In many ways, I disagree with Miner.  He seems to speak of the Amiga
    in the past tense, as though it were dead already.  I feel that
    although the Amiga was born in September if 1985, it didn't leave
    the delivery room until June of 1987, in the form of the A500 and
    A2000.  I think Miner is bitter that CBM 'fixed' his brainchild.  
    By late 1989, there should be over a million Amigas out there, which
    is nothing to sneeze at.
    
    Anyway, the whole article is fascinating, since it affords a rare
    glimpse into the mind of Miner.  
    
      //
    \X/  Ed.
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1488.1sorry, I had toWJG::GUINEAUTue Jun 21 1988 13:448
> Anyway, the whole article is fascinating, since it affords a rare
> glimpse into the mind of Miner.  


Thats apparently no "miner mind" !

John
1488.2The pain, the pain...LOWLIF::DAVISThat's not a BUG, it's a FEATURE!Tue Jun 21 1988 17:273
OUCH!  That hurt!!  :-)

...richard
1488.3BAGELS::BRANNONDave BrannonWed Jun 22 1988 02:3210
    re: .0
    
    Interesting interview.  Miner mentioned a lot of little details
    of the early days, fills in the gaps in RJ Mical's descriptions
    of Amiga vs. Atari vs. Commodore.
    
    Now that the Amiga has matured, it's time for Jay to start designing
    the next generation computer.
    
    -dave
1488.4Miner and the Past&FutureTLE::RMEYERSRandy MeyersWed Jun 22 1988 21:3695
Re: .3

>    Now that the Amiga has matured, it's time for Jay to start designing
>    the next generation computer.

Nope.  Miner has retired (I believe he is in his sixties, but I am bad
at guessing people's ages).  Officially, he is a consultant to Commodore,
but I believe that the arrangement is that they pay him big bucks to
keep him from working for anyone else.  From talking to him, I got the
feeling that all he really wants to do now is enjoy his "golden years"
(and play with flight simulators!).

At AmiExpo in New York last Fall, I managed to have a long talk with
Miner.  (He had been wandering the exhibit floor, gotten tired, and
was resting in a empty booth.)  He is definitely bitter over how
Commodore has mismanaged the Amiga in the past, but he does think
that they lived up to every promise they made the engineering staff.
One of the things that made him angry was the delay before the Amiga
2000 came out.  Miner and his staff were busy designing the Amiga
2000 (code named "Ranger") at the same time the German branch of
Commodore was doing the initial Sidecar design.  The Germans completed
the design of the Sidecar, and Commodore began doing their usual, "So
should be start selling these things or what?" routine.

The problem was the German team then said that the Sidecar was a
inefficient solution to IBM compatibility, and that a follow on
Amiga needed to be designed in order that supported internal expansion
with both Amiga and IBM slots.  Unfortunately, the German machine
had the same major design goals as the Miner designed "Ranger."
Commodore could not afford to have to Engineering groups designing
the same machine, and so had to make a decision.  (At the time,
Commodore was at its poorest.  It had been losing money at a
tremendous rate for a long time.  It was about to layoff a huge
number of employees.)

What it boiled down to was that the Germans said they could have the
machine ready to ship by Summer 1986.  Miner's group claimed a similar
deadline, but the German group was considered to be a much more
reliable design group.  Miner's group got the ax.

No doubt some of you saw the Summer 1986 date and thought that I
made a typing mistake.  After all, the Amiga 2000 didn't ship until
Summer 1987 in Europe and until Fall 1987 in North America.  The
German team slipped a year.  According to Miner, this had major
impact on the Amiga program.

First, Commodore was expecting to have a new Amiga to sell all during
1986-87.  They started winding down the Amiga 1000.  Commodore stopped
advertising saving their money for the big push when the new machine
came out.  The Amiga 1000 lost momentum, and Commodore shut down the
production lines.  It was as if the Amiga ceased to exist.  (From
1985 to Summer 1987, Commodore only sold 140,000 Amigas.  Since
Summer 1987, Commodore has sold an additional 560,000 Amigas.)

Miner is very bitter about this.  He believes that the Amiga lost
a major opportunity to knock out the Mac, and to become a respected
alternative to IBM.  He despairs of every catching up.  Particularly
since some of what had been unique features of the Amiga have been
picked up by the competition.

I think that his analysis is wrong about the future of the Amiga.
I think that the numbers very clearly show that the Amiga will
become a major player in the future.  The Amiga is outselling
the Mac at a significant rate.  (Yep, Commodore sold more Amigas
last year than Apple sold Macs.)  Assuming that Apple and Commodore
sell machines at the current rate, the Amiga installed base will
be within spitting distance of the Mac installed base by the end of
1990.

Things aren't all rosy yet.  The Amiga hasn't been accepted as
a business computer yet.  Commodore has been most successful in
selling the Amiga into the home and hacker market.  So, there is
a danger that the Amiga might win in numbers, but lack having
high end software developed for it.  High end software  (I am
thinking of thinks like AutoCAD) is only developed for business
machines because only business customers are willing to pay the
high end price.

I don't think that the Amiga is out of the game in the Commercial
world.  It take time to crack that market.  The Mac was a toy computer
bought by high end hobbyists for almost three years of its life.
(I remember one article that stated the Mac was only bought by
nerds and freaks wearing propeller beanies.)  I remember reading
trade journals that would be discussing some Fortune 500 company's
Data Processing Department, and there would statements like, "Oh,
yeah, that toy company tried to sell us some computers.  We managed
to keep a straight face when the salesman took us to lunch.  We didn't
even laugh about their Mac until the guy left."  So, I believe it is
possible for Commodore to break into the business market.  Whether
they pull it off is an open question.

The Amiga has some distinct advantages over the Mac SE: color, faster
graphics though hardware, lower price, expandability, a multi-tasking
operating system.  These are strengths that Commodore can use to
make in roads with.