Conference hydra::amiga_v1

< Note 1170.0 by WAV14::HICKS >
                        -< AmigaDOS file questions... >-

>    Hi Folks;
    
>    New User Question: What files from the Workbench 1.2 diskette are
>    necessary to run A-DOS?

Beleive it or not, all you have to do is format a disk and `Install'
it, and AmigaDOS will boot from it.  What you include from there depends on
what you want to do from that working disk. (you'd probably want a C:
directory with some commands, and a devs: with your printer.device, 
serial.device, and system-configuration, and L: with the port-handler,
ram-handler, etc  as an absolute minimum)

> Secondly, what files are necessary to run Workbench?

Since the code for WorkBench exists entirely in Kickstart, (or Rom's) all
you'd need is LoadWb to load it.  Of course you'd need all them .INFO files
to do anything from it.

>    If you know of a good book that addresses this kind of information,
>    I'd appreciate a recommendation.  Something that really describes
>    how AmigaDOS works, without going to the bit-fiddling level.

I'd bet lots of people would buy such a book.

Robb

If you're not playing around with any fonts other than the one which is the
workbence default (topaz 80 or 60), and not playing with them in that notebook
thing, trash ALL of the FONTS: directory (files and subdirectories). This will
get you lots of space.

Go into DEVS: and get rid of all printer drivers except the one for your
printer.

I never use notebook, clock, calculator so I deleted them.


Look through C:. Anything you don't need *most* of the time - delete.

In general DON'T do anything to L: or DEVS: (except the printer stuff)

Make a backup of you original workbench disk and store it and the original.
Make a second backup and do the deleting/tailoring on it.

Also, you'll need to use CLI (or DISKMAN like util) to do all this.


John

    
    	If you have used "DiskMan like" programs, you'll love browser.
    This program was uploaded to mvcad3. I've been using it for some
    time and it's really great !! Try it. 
    
    Miguel A. Alvarez
    

    For any lazy slobs like myself who hate to use uudecode, I have
    both Browser and wIconify in standard ARC format.  
    
    If you ask real nice, I'll uoload them here.
    
    Ed.

    re .4  yes, please upload browser and wiconify

    RE: .4
    Please upload browser and wiconify with our gratitude.

    OK, I'll get to it this evening...
    
    Look in LEDS3::USER6:[ACCIARDI.AMIGA]*.ARC
    

    come on...it can't be that hard for all of you to unpack these things
    on your amigas...I just didn't feel like making an arc, and DL'ing
    after I got it up on my ami...are we all really that lazy ;-)
    
    scott_who_is_the_laziest_sob_around!

    p.s....I'll copy to the mvcad3 arc file after its loaded.

Tim,
  If you don't have it already, get a copy of the Steve Drew/Matt Dillon shell
program.  It's the only way to survive with one drive.  I know its on MVCAD3.
It contains most of the 'most-used' CLI commands in an excellent CLI-like
shell.  Saves TONS of disk swapping...

					...richard

    
    Those of you who have tried wIconify:
    
    Did you have any problems?  My system crashed a few minutes after
    I installed it.  Needless to say I didn't reload it when it rebooted.
    Shortly thereafter I found that one of the disks I was using had
    a media error so I'm not sure which crashed the machine.
    
    Just wondering.  I liked wIconify while it lasted...
    
    - steve

    I like wIconify, but since it does hack on structures that the program
    does not own... use it with caution.  I did manage to get it confused
    eventually, try running both wIconify and wKeys at the same time.
    
    I'd love to see CBM put that both programs in the Workbench
    environment.  Iconified CLI windows almosts makes the Workbench
    liveable, wKeys almost rids it of rodents.
    
    -dave
    p.s. Microsoft Windows on that "other" computer already has these
    features, but then their new thrill is overlapping windows instead
    of tiled.
    

    	Re. 10
    
    	wIconify works OK in my Amiga 1000 512K machine. I usually have
    shell, mach12 and browser at the same time with no problems.
    
    Miguel A.

    Re: .1
    
    Rob,
    
    I read the AmigaDOS manual, telling me that all I had to do was
    INSTALL and I'm on my way.  This can't be accurate.  It doesn't
    work for me anyway.  I haven't read note .1-.12 yet (now that's
    what I really call response-time!!) but it would seem that you'ld
    need the C directory and CLI in the root directory at a minimum
    (besides boot blocks) but when I tried this, I still got the hand-
    with-the-Workbench-1.2-diskette icon.
    
    Am I just fundamentally misunderstanding something?  This wouldn't
    be the first time, nor won't be the last...
    
    ...Tim 8^}
    

    Re: .2
    
    John:
    
    From what you're saying then, L & DEVS need to be there to really
    boot, right?  that makes sense based on the file names...
    
    Thanks for the recommendations.  I hadn't thought of making acopy
    of the original distribution diskette and storing that away, too.
    I think I should know better.
    
    ...Tim 8^}

    Re: .3 & .4
    
    I've got a Shareware program called Wizard that has a point and
    shoot way of doing things.  That helps a lot.  Thanks for the offer
    on the download, but I don't have access to the facilities to do
    that on this system.  Being a salesman, they figure if I could do
    things like that I'd be >dangerous<.  Maybe they're right.
    
    ... Tim 8^{

    Re: .1
    
    Rob,
    
    After reading all 12 replies, I reread you're note regarding absolute
    minimum file configurations.  Maybe I'm misdirecting my concern
    on all this.  What really *BUGS* me is the way the AmigaDOS manual
    talks about INSTALL.  I should know better than to get bugged by
    poorly written manuals, but when I read the word "bootable", I take
    that to mean "able to bring the machine to a state where you (poor
    dumb user) can do something usefull.  NOT just "bring the machine
    to a state where you can insert another diskette which will read
    in other files which in turn will make the machine useful.
    
    In the MS-DOS world you SYS the diskette and copy COMMAND.COM (and
    hopefully some command files) and you've got a really "bootable"
    diskette.  Why do I have to get on a user network and ask the technical
    geniuses (geneii?) of the worlds second largest computer company
    to get this same type of information?  OK, I'll get off my soapbox
    now.......
    
    ...Tim ;^)

    Re: .11 & WBIconify
    
    I think WBIconify is a clever hack, but for me at least, it is of
    limited usefulness.  I usually run several custom screens at once,
    rather than a lot of Workbench windows.  What I'd really like to see, 
    maybe in 1.4, is a universal way to iconify a custom screen. 
    
    You probably noticed that WBIconify does not free up any CHIP ram,
    wheras the Smokey iconify does.  The most precious commodity on
    all current Amigas is CHIP ram.  Iconifying a custom screen should
    also speed up the machine a bit, I believe...
    
    
                  

    FLAME - Medium
    
    No...it really is the same!  if you SYS the MSDOG disk, all you
    get is command.com...the sam is true on the amiga...if you look
    at some of the games, etc out there, all they have is their own
    executable, and a S/startup-sequence to invoke it!  the have the
    CLI, and enough to drive the keyboard, screen, etc...that is the
    point of having the ROM routine (kickstart!)
    
    so you can do "real" work, but you get to decide what kind!  the
    devs:ram-handler is only needed if you want to use the RAM: device,
    the serial-handler for the serial port, FONTS: only if you are ever
    going to change the font from the preferences selected one, etc.
    
    Flame - off
    
    scott.              
    

    Re: .18
    
    Scott,
    
    So what am I doing wrong? If I INSTALL the Diskette and put CLI
    in the root directory, I'm not getting the CLI when I boot, just
    the "big hand" icon.  Do I also have to put a s/start-up sequence
    file on the disk?  If so, don't I also have to put every command
    it uses in the c directory?
    
    Don't get me wrong. you're response is >extremely< valuable.  I'm
    learning more with every response.  Please bear with me a little
    longer...I think I'm getting closer to what I'm looking for!
    
    ...Tim :^0

    Tim, lets assume the following scenario...
    
    I take a fresh floppy out of a box and format it (Workbench INITIALIZE
    or CLI FORMAT).
    
    I now INSTALL the blank floppy.
    
    If I reboot using the blank floppy, I should get the 'Amidos v1.2'
    message, than a CLI prompt.
    
    If I try to type 'dir' 'list' or any other command, I'll get the
    'unknown command' error message.
    
    So, this disk is indeed bootable, but there are no command files
    that the original CLI can access.
                                     
    Since you INSTALLED the disk, but didn't get the initial CLI, I'd
    conclude that the disk is bad.
    
    Ed.
    

Tim,
  How (read "What commands did you use to") install the disk?  It sounds to me
like you just didn't get it properly installed.  Since you have a one drive
system, try:

		(Workbench in df0:)
		1> install df0: +       <--- the plus tells AmigaDOS not to
		(insert blank disk)          execute the command until you
		(press RETURN)               press RETURN.
		1>

  Now Ctrl/A-A should get reboot you into AmigaDOS like Ed said in .-1.

					...richard

    Alternately, you could type...
    
    >INSTALL EMPTY:  ;or whatever you had named the formatted disk,
                     ;WB defaults the name to EMPTY:
    
    EMPTY would be the name of the fresh volume.  You can refer to the
    disk name as well as the device in which it resides.  This is
    frequently helpful on single drive systems.
    
    Ed.
    

To clear up a point of confusion:  The CLI is start of Kickstart.  It
is therefore in the ROM of an Amiga 500/2000, and it is part of the
256K write controlled Kickstart memory of the 1000.

The programs CLI and NEWCLI on the Workbench disk do not contain the
CLI.  All they do is cause AmigaDOS to create a new task and run the
ROMed CLI in it.  Those programs can be deleted from your disk if you
choose.

You can take a blank diskette, install it, and then boot from it.  This
works even though there are no files at all on the disk.

    re :-?  it sounds from your description that the install isn't being
    done right (I agree with ed on the ;-)  if you still get the hand/disk
    screen, it doesn't think its a bootable disk.....the other thing
    to try in a single disk system is to use the the "?" as the parameter
    to install.
    	This loads the program, and interactively prompts for the
    parameters.  (Some times those of us with 2drives, not to mention
    lots of ram/hard disks, forget how we all started out....)
    
    if this still doesn't get it, give me a call!  237-2961
    
    scott

    My Fellow Amigans:
    
    Serve me up a big plate of Crow.  I reINSTALLED a freshly Formatted
    diskette and, lo and behold, IT WORKED!  Boy, do I feel dumb...
    Excuse me while I reach in my pocket for a couple of steel ball
    bearings (mumble...but I'm SURE I did it right the first
    time...mumble...mumble...It can't be an Operator Error...Its all
    a stinking conspiracy...just like the incident with the strawberies...)
    
    Note .23 (thanks Randy) really helped my confusion.  All the answers
    in this note have saved me WEEKS of trial-and-error frustration.
    Thanks for all your help!!!
    
    Ed Acciardi: Thanks for the Starter diskette.  I'll give it a try
    tonight.
    
    ...Tim 8^)