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Conference hydra::amiga_v1

Title:AMIGA NOTES
Notice:Join us in the *NEW* conference - HYDRA::AMIGA_V2
Moderator:HYDRA::MOORE
Created:Sat Apr 26 1986
Last Modified:Wed Feb 05 1992
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5378
Total number of notes:38326

1150.0. "Starboard2 Problems" by GLORY::SHIVES () Tue Feb 09 1988 12:53

    
    HELP !!
    
    I just purchased a Starboard2 2Meg. board from Go Amigo. Yesterday
    It arrived and I am having all kinds of trouble with it.  
    
    When it arrived, I read all the papers telling me what to watch
    for and how to install. I noticed that the instructions said that
    there should be two screws that are to be screwed into the brackets
    in the expansion port. The screws were there but don't extend far
    enough.  I called Go Amigo. They said the board was redesigned and
    it is not necessary for them to be screwed in that is why it was
    assembled with shorter screws.
    
    Ok, I thought. Next step.   I put the board on the expansion port and
    turned on the Amiga.  I booted AmigaDOS 1.1 (the SETUP disk) because
    that was where the memory check was and that is the version that the
    memory check needed.  The memory flew through the memory test program
    with flying colors. Great!, I thought.
    
    The next step was to boot ADos 1.2.  Insert Kickstart 1.2; insert
    Workbench 1.2.  (these are backup copies of the originals, not my
    working copy that may have something different on them.)  Workbench
    Screen appears!! Available memory at the top says 24..... (2.4 million
    approx.) bytes.  Great! 
    
    Click on Workbench 1.2 icon.  The window opened, showed one or two
    drawer icons and .... GURU !!!!!!!!!!!!
    (For those so inclined... 00000004.0020ADB8;  when I clicked the
    left mouse button, it started to re-boot but stopped with
    84000006.00207158. )
    
    Needless to say, I am quite confused. Everything I read says
    "Starboard2 auto-configures under ADos 1.2". Fine. It configured,
    but I can't use it.
    
    Things I have checked:
    	Jumper blocks for the extra memory
    
    	Reseated the board three times being careful to press only on
    the bus edge card.

        I can only see the upper deck when I remove the cover, but the
    chips look fine to me.  I noticed That I didnot have any parity
    DRAMs though.
    
    	I noticed that the added DRAMs are NEC brand, which is not on
    the Microbotics "approved list" of chips. (I don't know if this
    means anything.) Has anyone used chips other than HITACHI,TI,
    MITSUBISHI, FUJITSU, or SAMSUNG on their Starboard2?
    
    

    Basically, I don't know what is wrong and I am looking for suggestions.
    As soon as everyone involved wakes up, I will be calling MIcrobotics
    and GO Amigo, but I thought experienced owners might have a suggestion
    or two also.
    
		Thanks for all help,
    		   Mark
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1150.1are you trying a big RRD???MVCAD3::BAEDERD. Scott DTN 237-2961 SHR1-3/E19Tue Feb 09 1988 19:599
    I think that if it comes up at all, the card is good...are you trying
    to do anything with the RRD??...just a shot in the dark, but on
    my system, i startup a big rrd...IF I have to take of my starboard
    2M card...I get a similar type of behavior due to the rrd.. 
    
    as for the chips...I used something NOT on their list, and so far...no
    problems there....but...see the lates on the wedge for another story...
    
    scott.
1150.2BAGELS::BRANNONDave BrannonTue Feb 09 1988 21:4613
    it is possible you don't have a good connection between the
    RF shield on the Starboard and the A1000 RF shield.  The resulting
    noise caused GURUs on my system.  The problem went away when I
    finally got a good connection (used a nearby TV set to determine
    how bad the RF was).  Make sure the A1000 & Starboard are on a level
    surface, the side of the A1000 isn't level so the Starboard could
    be leaning in or out too much.
    
    That seems to match your symptoms - mine passed the diags, booted
    fine, but GURUed when I actually tried to do something with it.
    
    -dave
    
1150.3The aluminum foil trickTLE::RMEYERSRandy MeyersTue Feb 09 1988 22:3225
Re: .0, .2

The Starboard diagnostics are not very good.  I have come across several
cases of passing the Starboard diagnostics but the memory causing the
system to crash.

I sold Dave the Starboard in reply .2.  It worked fine at my house on
my system, but crashed his system at his house.  The problem turned out
to be that the grounding problem: My system was on a desk that adequately
supported the Starboard case.  Dave's system was on a slotted coffee
table that allowed the Starboard lean at a funny angle.

The symptoms on Dave's system was that it would boot normally, then guru
slightly later.  However, if you didn't feed the machine a Kickstart
disk within two minutes of the prompt, it would not even read Kickstart.

Dave noticed the memory problems (and the RF noise) went away if he
touched a bit of aluminum foil to both the starboard metal case and
the metal edge of the joystick port.  This grounded the system and
fixed the problems.  In the original, unredesigned Starboard, there
were two large jack screws that connected the Starboard to the Amiga
that also grounded the system and memory box (an obscure line in
the Starboard installation sheet mentioned this fact).  Dave's
problem was that on his table, the starboard case pivoted and didn't
contact the screws.
1150.4THAT'S IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GLORY::SHIVESWed Feb 10 1988 13:1730
>The symptoms on Dave's system was that it would boot normally, then guru
>slightly later.  However, if you didn't feed the machine a Kickstart
>disk within two minutes of the prompt, it would not even read Kickstart.

THAT'S IT!!
    
>    Dave noticed the memory problems (and the RF noise) went away if he
>touched a bit of aluminum foil to both the starboard metal case and
>the metal edge of the joystick port.  This grounded the system and
>fixed the problems.  

    Is this on the outside of the case?  How about if I find two small
    screws and put them through like the original design had done? Would
    that help as well?  (Something about relying on a piece of foil
    that may fall off bothers me.)
    
    
>    In the original, unredesigned Starboard, there
>were two large jack screws that connected the Starboard to the Amiga
>that also grounded the system and memory box (an obscure line in
>the Starboard installation sheet mentioned this fact). 

    When I called GO AMIGO, they said that since the jackscrews would
    strip out of the brackets that held them, Microbotics replaced
    them with smaller screws that only go flush with the case.
    

Mark
    
1150.5Try the foil first, then find a good solutionTLE::INSTALLRandy MeyersWed Feb 10 1988 14:3730
Re: .4

>>    Dave noticed the memory problems (and the RF noise) went away if he
>>touched a bit of aluminum foil to both the starboard metal case and
>>the metal edge of the joystick port.  This grounded the system and
>>fixed the problems.  
>
>    Is this on the outside of the case?  How about if I find two small
>    screws and put them through like the original design had done? Would
>    that help as well?  (Something about relying on a piece of foil
>    that may fall off bothers me.)

The metal edge of the joystick port is accessible from the outside of the
Amiga's case.  I would recommend you first try the foil trick to the if
the grounding is the problem.  If it is, you can then try to find a more
permanent solution.  I would try either larger screws or just taking a
piece of wire, wrapping it around one of the brackets and then attaching
it to the starboard case somewhere.


>    When I called GO AMIGO, they said that since the jackscrews would
>    strip out of the brackets that held them, Microbiotics replaced
>    them with smaller screws that only go flush with the case.

The brackets are pretty flimsy: each bracket is simply two L shaped
pieces of very soft metal folded over one another.  The hole in the
bracket does not even have a thread in it.  The first time you screw
something into the bracket, the screw cuts a thread.  Given how weak
the bracket is, I recommend that you hold the bracket steady with a
pair of needle nose pliers when inserting a screw the first time.
1150.6PAL chips?WINERY::COLLUMWed Feb 10 1988 17:049
    I have an early Amiga 1000 and experienced somewhat similar symptoms.
    Even after grounding the Starboard to the Amiga, they persisted.
    It took grounding the PAL chips on the daughterboard in the Amiga
    to finally solve the problem.  Since then, no problems at all!
    I think that the method of grounding the PALs is somewhere in this
    file. If not, i'd be happy to post the procedure.
    
    				Jim
    
1150.7GLASS::SHIVESWed Feb 10 1988 19:459
    
    I tried a "DIR/TITLE=PAL" and did not find how to ground the PALs.
    Please post the procedure.  I will try any resonable solution right
    now. Thanks.
    
    	Mark
    
    P.S. Has anybody thought about using keywords? It really does help
    and can be more complete for searching. 
1150.8BAGELS::BRANNONDave BrannonThu Feb 11 1988 21:0915
    well... my Starboard 2 works great now that I have a board under
    it and the A1000.  Before I did that, simply inserting or ejecting
    a disk was enough to disturb the connection.  The grounding with
    foil the joystick port shield was just a way to determine if the
    RF problem was caused by a poor shield ground.  It was.  Now if
    I bump the A1000, the board moves, not the connection.  I also bent
    the RF shield on the Starboard to make better contact with the A1000
    shield.  
    
    As you may has guessed by now, I'm not a big fan of slap-on-the-side
    expansion.  But it works ok, and I've heard worse stories about
    internal memory upgrades.  Once you start using 2.5 Megs, you won't want
    to part with the critter.
    
    -dave
1150.9GLORY::SHIVESFri Feb 12 1988 12:5324
    
    My amiga sits on a flat (not necessarily level) surface. Do I did
    it to be level? I tried all kinds of angles for the board, but it
    didn't help.
    
    I tried the aluminum foil trick. Either I didn't do it right or
    it wasn't a strong enough connection. It didn't work.  I did try
    touching a piece of wire to the bracket and wedging it between the
    Starboard and the Amiga as I put the Starboard on.  This worked
    for a little (maybe a minute) longer.  I actually was able to start
    the clock demo and watch it run.
    
    I am a little unclear as to what the 'RF shield' is. Not being a
    hardware person leaves me at a disadvantage sometimes. This is one.
    I gather it is a piece of metal, but I am not sure where.  Could
    I bend the one on the Amiga instead?  If this doesn't work, I am
    going to send it back to GO AMIGO and let them send me a new one.
    I wouldn't want them to say "Ah-hah!  YOU bend the RF shield! WE
    won't replace it. Too Bad."  I want to keep the Starboard just like
    they sent it to me so I can have some recourse if need be.
    
    Thanks for all the help,
    
    	Mark
1150.10MVCAD3::BAEDERD. Scott DTN 237-2961 SHR1-3/E19Sat Feb 13 1988 20:5713
    I think what the basic problem is is the connections of the grounds!
    the RF shield on the amiga is the metal tabs with hols in them...easily
    seen if the SB isn't attached..its where the screws (if supplied
    would connect...)
    
    the other thing those scres did was touch some metal on the SB pcb.
    this also needs grounding...the "RF shield" is just the metal case,
    thet is properly grounded....thats why ground seems to help...
    
    hope this helps.
    
    scott.
    
1150.11help!MVCAD3::BAEDERD. Scott DTN 237-2961 SHR1-3/E19Tue Apr 26 1988 22:537
    well now, I think I've got a problem...with the SBII connected...green
    screen...ie memory faults!...without...a-ok...will try the grounding
    tricks memtioned here, but anyone got any other ideas??  going back
    to 512 is not a pleasant thought!
    
    scott.
    
1150.12512 K? Barbarian!LEDS::ACCIARDIWed Apr 27 1988 02:019
    Make sure you have run the Starboard memory diagnostics before
    panicking.  I had a chip go south in my Starboard, and the diagnostics
    caught it in a flash.
    
    If you don't have the latest diagnostic software (there was an upgrade
    or two) e-mail me and I'll get it out to you in a flash.
    
    Ed.
    
1150.13thanks...but can't even get it to bootMVCAD3::BAEDERD. Scott DTN 237-2961 SHR1-3/E19Wed Apr 27 1988 12:335
    thanks for the offer, but I can't even get it to accept the KS disk
    yet...I think it may be too much noise, or something...If I can
    get it to boot with the damn thing attached, the diags ...for sure..
    
    scott
1150.14MVCAD3::BAEDERD. Scott DTN 237-2961 SHR1-3/E19Sun May 01 1988 18:5810
    well, this is really bizzare, since last time I tried it, no-go...no
    chances, even to the positioning, et...I thought i'd give it one
    more try before fiddeling around with it...Boots ok!  ran the diags
    (thanks for the offer ed, but when the returned it last summer,
    they included new diags, mine are rev E), and works fine...no errors!
    
    so, chalk it up to ???  BUT, I have "propped it up better to avoid
    any tilting/strain/etc.  
    
    scott
1150.15The end of My storyGLORY::SHIVESMon May 02 1988 16:0429
    
    In reading back over this, I realized that I said what the final
    result was.
    
    It went something like this:
    
    After talking to their techs for a couple of days, I sent the SB2 back
    to GO AMIGO. 
    Three weeks later, I hadn't heard from them.  I called and
    the person said that the replacement was not sent out because my
    address 
    

    Two weeks later, nothing had arrived.  I called and the RA said
    that I had returned a 512K Amiga 500 (!!!!!!!!!!!) memory expansion
    and not the 2MB A1000 expansion.  I decided that three strikes were
    enough.  I asked that the order be cancelled and a refund given.
    
    Fortunately, they were able to do this correctly.  Even though I
    was not able to get the memory board (Maybe since it is an early
    model or something), I will say that the company did not give me
    any difficulty in getting a refund.
    
    Mark
    
    (P.S. re: .-1  I am glad that it "went away". But I would watch
    it with a suspecting eye, if I were you.)
    
    
1150.16"The more things change..."TEACH::ARTArt Baker, DC Training Center (EKO)Mon May 02 1988 17:476
	Well, it's nice to see that some things don't change.  I 
	dealt with Go Amigo about a year and a half ago (when they 
	were still calling themselves Go AmigA), and it took almost
	three months (and threats of legal action) before they got
	my order straightened out.