Conference hydra::amiga_v1

    On the same line ... Has anyone tried to hook up a VR241 to an AMIGA.
    There VR241 is *analog* RGB.  How do you set this up on a AMIGA?
    
       ... Rich

    Doesn't the Amiga normally use an analog monitor?  You can't get
    more than 16 colors using digital RGB.
        John Sauter

    Having used both a 1080 and the Amiga and VR241 on a VT240, the
    VR241's the handsdown winner.  Of course, the 241's got a 20MHz
    bandwidth to the 1080's 10MHz, and it costs a bit more.  If anybody
    can figure out how to hook it up, I'd seriously consider getting
    one via the DEPP.  Anybody got a price list handy?
    
    len.
    

    Here's something you might try:  I saw a note on Compuserve about
    using an Atari color monitor (the kind used with the ST series,
    now available for about $330. at Toys-R-Us as a separate item) with
    the Amiga.  They noted that the colors are more saturated than with
    the 1080 monitor, and it costs less.  (I'm sure that the Atari fans
    will cringe at the idea--Amiga users seem a little more open minded.)
    
    Might be worth a try.
    

Current (May 86) Employee Purchase price list has the VR241-AA for $517.00.

    I have used the VR241 with a VCR and it puts even the best color
    TV's to shame. It does weigh a ton and a half though. Are there
    specs on the Amiga system box that show maximum load?
    
    Paul

    Hmm... then there's the cable problem.  From what I understand the
    Atari monitors use a bizarre DIN-style connector that's hard to
    find.  The VR241 expects three BNC connectors.  Anybody into custom
    cables.
    
    The 241's a little on the pricey side, but it sure would be nice.
    I've also heard that the Atari monitor looks better than the 1080.
    I guess I'll have to start thinking of my 1080 as a freebie rather
    than as part of a $1300 system price.

    len.
    

    re: .6 
    Off hand do you know if the VR241 exeeds the Amiga weight spec?
      ... Rich

    Please pardon this blasphemous interupt, but while we're on the
    subject of monitors....  Has anyone seen how the Amiga performs
    with a composite monitor?  I have a Commodore 1702 monitor at present,
    and I have a much better chance of convincing my wife that we need
    an Amiga if we don't have to buy a new (read $500+) monitor.  I
    realize that perfection can't be expected, but is it a workable
    alternative?
    
    On a budget,
    Gary

   When we bought our AMIGA, we had a rather difficult time finding a DB-23
connector for the RGB monitor, and as a result, we used the composit video
out on our Zenith monitor for about the first month (before we got around
to sawing a couple of pins off a DB-25).  While this is the same Zenith
monitor that we're using as an RGB monitor now, I still think it's a fair
comparison to a normal composit monitor, as the composit video is clearly
the limiting factor (and I'd say that either the monitor or the composit
out jack was limiting the resolution to about 4.2 MHz, just like NTSC says).

   Anyway, on the Zenith in composit mode, the 80 column font was readable,
if somewhat irritating, but the 60 column font (the default when you first
install the machine) was perfectly acceptable.  We used the 80 column font
and put up with the irritation.

   For that matter, on the few occasions that we fed the composit video signal
to our RCA TV/Monitor, we got about the same results as with the Zenith
computer monitor.

   Overall, I'd say that it's fairly reasonable to use a composit monitor
on the Amiga, although RGB is definitely the way to go if you can afford it.

    I used a TV monitor with my Amiga for a few weeks before I got my
    RGB one.  I found 80 columm type almost impossible to read.  Hi-Res
    is a joke.  You can barely make out the gadgets or fonts.  You could
    'get by', but what a relief when you eventually go to RGB.
    
    I guess it depends upon how good your monitor is.  Even using the
    composite mode on my Sony monitor is dissapointing to me.
    
    ALSO:  I just noticed a note on the usenet that said that wearing
    polarized sunglasses eliminates much of the interlace flicker in
    hi-res mode.  Sounds like an April fools joke in May, but might
    be true.
    

re .9

     There's currently a Commodore authorized arrangement whereby you can
get a Commodore 1080 RGB monitor free when you buy a system box.  I don't
know when it expires or if any of the local dealers are subscribing, but
it's worth looking into.
									RP

    re .9/.12
    
    My understanding is that the free monitor promotion runs at least
    until the end of May.
    
    len.

    re .12,.13 
    
    The free monitor offer does run until the end of May.  Check your
    local dealer.  This offer is made directly from Commodore, so all
    of the dealers should offer it (I would think do unless they are
    holding out).  Also, you might want to check around a little extra
    to see if any particular dealer will give a little extra incentive.
    
    re.11?  There was a mention from someone on the Usenet who tried
    Polarized sunglasses. While he thought that it was the polarization
    that did the trick, a guy from C-A said that he would probably get
    the same result by dimming the room lights a little.  It basicly
    sounds to me that the amount of glare in a room contributes
    significantly to the flicker of the monitor. Definitely worth a
    try.                                               
    
    				Mark
    

    re .12 and others.
    
    My intent in asking about the composite monitor was more or less
    to plan for the future.  I am not likely to be buying an Amiga in the
    next 2 weeks (or months, for that matter).  On top of all this,
    the 1080 is not really "free".  I was working on the (possibly flawed)
    assumption that I could find a discounter or dealer somewhere who
    would be willing to part with a system unit sans monitor for something
    close to the ~$800 that Comm/Amiga is hyping in it's ads.  It's
    possible I could have connived a deal out of the local dealer. 
    In any case, I sincerely doubt that it will revert to its $1300
    price tag after the current promotion ends.  I suspect that It'll
    end up under $1000 without the 1080.  If that's the case, then I
    want to have the option of getting one without its monitor to keep
    the cost down. 
    
    Thanks for the input,
    Gary

Re .11 and others, a Polaroid glare filter also materially reduces
flicker in the hi-res, interlaced mode. It also improves contrast
and apparent color saturation. Whether this is due to Polaroid film
or just simple glare reduction isn't clear -- I don't have a big
enough neutral density filter to test it. You don't need sun-glasses
to do the job.

Lowell

    re .4
    I just read in the current issue of INFO magazine that the Atari
    color monitor is NOT recommended for the Amiga.  They tested several
    different monitors--the Sonys came out on top.  The Atari produced
    an image with a distorted aspect ratio that most people would find
    unacceptable...in fact, the picture even bleeds off the screen at
    the sides.  In addition, there is the problem of the non-standard
    connector to deal with.     
    
    Oh well.....
    
    Randy
    

    I don't think anyone has replied to this... Yes the specs on weight
    are there.  50 lbs if I recall.
    				\dan
    

     
    I'm finally getting around to buying an Amiga (in the next few weeks),
    so I'm looking for more up-to-date info on monitor-tvs. Specifically,
    which ones have people used and found to work? I know that some
    have only 300 lines of resolution and some have 500. There are so
    many different brands now (Sony, JVC, Fischer, RCA, Zenith) that
    I have no idea which to buy. 
     
    Also, any help on where to get a monitor-tv that works with the
    Amiga (at a good price) would be appreciated.
     
    Roy 

    Just make sure that the monitor you get is an ANALOG RGB monitor.
    A digital RGB monitor will do you little good.  I am still very
    happy with my Sony KV1311CR Trinitron Monitor/TV.  So far, I haven't
    seen any other monitor that looks as good, or is as versatile. 
    It has several different input and output connections.  These are
    really helpful if you are doing any kind of video graphics work,
    because you can use it as a RGB monitor for image creation, and a 
    Composite monitor for videotape playback.
    
    My only problem with it is that my cable is not fully shielded,
    creating havoc with my neighbor's TV (and mine).  My first cable
    was one of those ribbon ones--a disaster!  I now have one from Redmond
    Cable, which is better.  It still causes some RF problems though.

    I bought mine through Crimson Camera Technical Sales in Boston (My
    brother was a salesman there at the time).  This monitor is discounted
    at ComputerTown in Nashua from time to time.  It is usually around
    $475.00.
    
    Randy
        

     
    As I was looking through my AmigaWorlds yesterday I noticed something
    interesting in the AW subscription ad. (That is the ad with the picture
    of a monitor displaying a CAD-Type drawing of a person in a car.)
    The interesting part of the ad was the monitor itself - it was NOT
    an Amiga 1080, but rather an "Amiga HR" monitor. I don't think that
    it was a case of a different name for the same monitor, because
    the screen looked a little squarer and the control panel on the
    bottom looked different. There was also a jack of some sort of the
    front.
     
    Does anyone know anything about an "Amiga HR" monitor? Is this perhaps
    something that never was produced?
    
    Roy

    I believe that it is the old Amiga monitor.  I read somewhere that
    they switched suppliers, hence the different 'look'.  The performance
    is supposed to be unchanged.
    

    Is true... I have a very early Amiga. (I have not checked it, but
    I do not think the Amiga has 'HALFBRITE'...) But the monitor seems
    to be very similar to the 1080. It is not the best in the world,
    but then with the deal I got, I sure cann't complain...
    
    	-- John B. Fisher

    A quick question: does the Sony Trinitron KV-1965S monitor/TV work
    with the Amiga? I saw it on sale today for $333.00
    
    Roy

I just spent last night playing with a VR241 on my Amiga (yes it was
spooky :-), here are the results:

	1)	The Amiga has a DB-23 connector on the video output so I
		had to do some creative hacksawing on a DB-25 until I had
		a usable connector.

	2)	I wired up 4 coax lines (R,G,B and sync) with appropriate
		BNC connectors on the ends and wired them to my (erzotz)
		DB-23.

	3)	Hooked up the world. By the way, weight wise the VR241
		is not	a heck of a lot heavier than the 1080.

	4)	Worked fine. The cables were good and shielded so virtually
		no leakage. The problem was that the picure was TINY due to
		the way DEC uses the display surface.

	5)	Ripped open the VR241 and changed the Horizontal and Vertical
		sizes so that the Workbench filled the screen. Adjusted focus
		appropriately.

	6)	I found the VR241 had better focus/general clarity... however
		in interlace mode it was almost UNUSABLE. The thing responds
		too damn fast (maybe they use a lower persistance
		phosper than I'm used to).

	7)	Bottom line is that I packed it up and am back to using my
		good old 1080 (until I can get a high-p phospher at a
		resonable  price :-)

For what a VR241 costs.. I DEFINITLY would not but one for use on an Amiga.

Well I finally broke down and bought a Sony KV1311-CR....

Excuse me while I get emotional... I'M IN LOVE!!!! (my wife is even
jealous). I am now running in nothing but interlace mode and after picking
appropriate colors have virtually NO discernible flicker. This is how I would
up getting it: I was helping some neighbors buy an IBM clone (do NOT flame,
this is what they needed :-), when I had a flash of inspiration:

Me:	Mr. salesman, would an Amiga 1080 work on this clone?
Mr. S:	Yes.
Me:	Do you have the cables?
Mr. S:	Yes.
Me:	Is the 1080 better than the monitor that comes with the clone?
Mr. S:	Yes.
Me:	Do you sell Sony KV1311-CR's with cables for an Amiga?
Mr. S:	Yes.
Me:	What would it cost to "upgrade" the clone to a Sony monitor?
Mr. S:	About $250.00
Me:	Mr. Neighbor, would you like my 1080 monitor (please, please)?
Mr. N:	Sure, why not
Me:	Mr. Salesman... (the biggie...) is EVERYTHING in stock?
Mr. S:	Yep.

So my neighbor bought his system with the Sony, I gave him $250.00 and we
swapped monitors. YAHOOOOOOO!

    Lucky Duck!
    
    Chris

    Re: .26
                                                            
    I have installed a Jitter-Rid directly underneath the Sony plastic
    bezel.  This requires partial disassembly of the Sony.  I am not
    suicidal, I just have a strong sense of aesthetics.
    
    Anyway, with a Jitter-Rid permanently installed, I can crank up
    the sharpness, run in interlaced mode, and get fantastic text quality
    without seeing any little black horizontal lines.  For colors, I
    use light blue text on a black background.
    
    I have no problems at all with flicker on a 400 line screen, with
    the exception of black letters on a paper-white background.  This
    is the color scheme used on ProWrite, with no means to change colors.
    
    By the way Dave, you probably know this, but try dithering the vertical
    hold on the Sony for the best shaped characters.

    Does the Sony have a composite video out? If so does it produce
    a better recording image than the vid out of the Amiga when using a VCR?
    
    ...  .     .       Rich

    The sony has a composite out, but it is fed from the composite in,
    not by the RGB in.  It does not have a composite encoder to translate
    the RGB to composite.  So in other words, the composite output is
    the same as the composite output from the Amiga...or possibly worse.
    
    Randy
    

    <also posted in IBMPC 1565.5>

         I am very interested in a Multi-synch monitor for an Amiga.  
    I have seen the NEC and Sony (1302) and thought they looked very 
    good.  However,  I would also like to see the Mitsubishi, Magnavox, 
    and Princeton models before buying anything. 
           
         The local computermarts (Lowell, Nashua) only carry the NEC.
    Where could I possibly see several side by side?  The Mitsubishi
    has been evaluated in IBMPC, but what about the other manufactuers?
    Recommendations please, people must be using some of the others also.
    
    Thanks,
    
    --Steve

	 Yes, I have read *all* the title=monitor/multi/synch here,
    in IBMPC and in MAC, and haven't found what I've needed.

    I just bought a NEC multisyncII, for when the new chip sets are
    released.  I almost bought a Sony 1302 but from the reviews in
    different magazines, the Sony didn't seem to deliver as good a picture.
    The distributor I bought the monitor from sold both NEC and Sony
    and the service record was not as good on the Sony.
    
    Jean
    

        
        I would suggest you look at May14::ATARIST, Note 137, replies
        .7, .9, .11 and .13.  Reply .13 is Ed Acciardi's review of his
        Princeton Ultrasync.
        
        (No Ed is not an Amiga defector.  I asked him to write-up a
        review as he has lived with his monitor for some time now and a
        monitor like a printer should be transferable to the next system
        you own.)
        
        Bob