Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Robin Yount won the Phoenix Open's Longest Drive contest 
    (amateur division) here on Wednesday.  I hear it was the third year in
    a row that he's done this.
    
    Mike

    
    Inquiring minds and all that....
    
    1)	Why is there golf?
    
    2)	What is the porpose of golf?
    
    3)	Can golf swim?
    
    4)	Can you program in golf?
    
    5)	Does golf have sexual fantasies?
    
    6)	When you cook golf, should it be broiled or boiled?
    
    7)	Can golf be the victim of unfriendly take-overs?
    
    8)	Can golf be trained to retrieve?
    
    9)	Does golf have tenure?
    
    10)	and finally, how much does an immature golf weigh?
    
    
    :-)
    
    Kev
    

    
    Doug Flutie won the Phoenix Open Miniature Golf tournament.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Dickstah,
    
    	Wasn't that the one with the "Hail Mary" putt??
    

    I might regret this BUT,
    
    What GRIP do youse guys use?
    
    I use the prehensile meself
    
    Ahem,
    MikeL
    

    What's all this about a Golf War that Frank Gifford keeps talking
    about?
    
    Dan

    
    
    
    I usually use a loose grip.
    
    Golf is what I do cause I'm getting too old to do anything else!
    
    Although I have been known to come out of retirement!
    
    Like 1 for 5 or something like that.....right Dan?
    

I usually grip the end of the lcub wif both hands. 


Baseball for the Drive 

Overlap for the Irons....


Don't ask me why but it works bested for me.

    Seriously tho,
    I use the interlocking for woods and irons, und baseball for putts
    
    MikeL
    

    interlocking woods irons. (With JUMBOS on the clubs, might keep me out
    of tourny play, but I have very big hands) 
    
    Baseball for the putts I can't make.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach
    
    P.S.  Jack (The_Golden_Bear) is a GOD, 285,000 on one putt!)
    
    

    I use the Hussein interlock.  I must also say my approach shots are
    about as accurate as a Scud missile.  When my ball doesnt  go
    straight I interagate it and after throwing it in the drink, list it
    as a POW.  
    
    Greg
                                                     

    On Sunday, February 24, 1991, my father had a hole in one on a
    Melbourne, Florida golf course.
    
    	--dan'l

    So, what do the Sports Noters think about the recent trend in golf?
    
    I'm talking about the practice of TV viewers calling up the PGA to
    rat on golfers for their alleged rule violations.   
    
    I have to axe a few questions:
    
    1. How do these viewers get the phone number to call?
    
    2. What kind of weenie loser without a life does such a thing?
    
    3. Why does the PGA give the time of day to these crackpots?  No other
       sport will hold up a game based on somebody calling up with
       something they noticed.
    
    These people remind me of the type of golfer I hate to golf with.  They
    are so fixated on all of the obscure rules that they don't have any fun
    and won't allow anyone else to, either.  The type of rules violations
    they report seem to be of the "who cares, it didn't affect the outcome"
    type.
    
    Anybody else have an opinion on this?
    
    Pete

re .-1

First off, great p-name.


Second off, I agree totally.  I don't understand why the PGA would
take that anymore than MLB would allow a viewer who though someone was
safe to call in and voice their opinion.

I agree, those viewers need to get a life....

    Hey, I rank golf right up there with world peace, nuclear disarmament,
    save the whales, don't pollute, and apple pie.  I think it's a
    abobmination that cheaters get away with violations.  They should be 
    fined and dismembered!  WAY TO GO PGA Police!!!!!!  yay!!!!
    
    Me????  Why I wouldn't dream of ever not watching the fast action, 
    spellbinding strategies, nailbiting edge-of-my-seat mysteries and awesome 
    talent of a PGA (or WPGA either) contest!
    
    For anybody who hits the leetle ball;
    
    Just remember, in these tough economic times, when you plunk down the
    big bucks for green fees, the cost per stroke for "good" golfers is 
    maybe $.35 each.
    On the other hand, if you want to stretch your money, play golf like 
    *I do* and get more for your money.  Why it was just this lasted(tm)
    weekend I was able to get my cost/stroke to UNDER $.20/swing!!!!!
    
    (aka "lowest unit cost or BULK RATE)
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    
    >>2. What kind of weenie loser without a life does such a thing?
    
    
    Well, Now we know how a certain "Objective Sports Analyst" spends his
    weekends, don't we.
    
    Hey Sr. Mary Elephan"T", how's the phone bill?????
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    
    Pete, could you elaborate on what the violation/supposed violation 
    was during Saturdays round.  I heard mention of a controversy, but 
    never got the full details.  
    
    The incident I remember is the one where, I think it was, Ray Floyd, 
    "improved" his stance (kneel) by placing a towel on the wet ground.  
    In actuallity all he wanted to do was save his $150 pants from grass
    stains.  Couldn't believe someone even picked up on the violation, let
    alone reported it to the PGA.   
    
    Guess some people just don't like to see these guys walking away with
    hundreds of thousands of dollars for playing golf.   Might be jealousy? 
    
    /Jeff

    Jeff, 
    
    The violation was that the caddy supposedly marked the line for
    Daly.  I didn't see it, but I guess he pulled the pin and just held
    on to it, placing the end on the ground behind the hole.  The
    anal-retentive viewers cited a rule where nobody can mark the line.
    In the judgement of the officials, the "mark" was to the side, not
    in line with the ball and the hole.
    
    A few months back, someone actually was disqualified for signing
    an incorrect score card.  He was busted for some other non-event,
    didn't give himself the penalty strokes and signed the card.  I seem
    to recall that it involved moving some twigs or grass or something.
    
    These viewers remind me of the Rev. Wildmon's minions, who sit for
    hours in front of the tube and write down all the naughty words and
    flashed of thigh they see, then complain to advertisers.  Sort of
    getting pleasure from denying themselves pleasure, I guess.  If
    heaven is filled with this type of people, I'd rather go to hell!
    
    Pete

    
    >>The incident I remember is the one where, I think it was, Ray Floyd, 
    >>"improved" his stance (kneel) by placing a towel on the wet ground.  
    
    Twas Craig Stadler who got nailed for that infraction.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    John Daly (the tournament winner) was called on the carpet because his
    caddie let the flagstick touch the green.  That is a violation of the
    rules because the flagstick touching the green can be considered as
    marking the line of the putt.  In other words, the caddie was giving
    Daly a target to shoot at.  Daly and his caddie were able to convince
    the rules committee that the flagstick was touching the green on the
    other side of the hole from where the putt was going to go and was not
    an attempt to mark the line of the putt.
    
    I think the people who run the golf tournaments should ignore the calls
    from viewers, well-intentioned though they may be.
    
    John

    The 'rules violation that wasn't' this weekend involved John Daly.  He
    was standing behind his ball (on which green, I don't remember)
    checking out his line.  His caddy was holding the pin, behind the hole.
    At one point, the caddy allowed the bottom of the pin to rest on the
    green....about 6" to a foot to Daly's right of the hole.  Daly was
    asking his caddy to confirm his belief that the putt would break
    left-to-right....which the caddy did.  The issue was: did the caddy use
    the pin as an indicator in showing Daly where to aim his putt?
    
    After reviewing videotape of the incident, it was ruled that the caddy
    did NOT use the pin inappropriately....that given the fact that both
    Daly and the caddy indicated a left-to-right break, the placing of the
    flag to Daly's right of the hole could not possibly have given him an
    advantage.
    
    What I don't understand is why the PGA couldn't see that for
    themselves, without calling Daly and Bruce Lietzke into the tent to
    review the video!!!
    
    Nelly

In addition, what helped was Litzke, the fellow golfing with Daly, marched
into the tent and said that in no way was it a rules violation.

Read an article recently about how gentlemanly and sportsmanlike golf
is.  One of the reasons is because it's really all of them against the
course, not each other.

There's been lots of times in the past where golfers have penalized themselves
after a round for discovering a rules violation.


Finally, if I ran the PGA, I'd get each callers name, address, and phone
number, then send someone to there house to kill them....

'Saw

    
>>Finally, if I ran the PGA, I'd get each callers name, address, and phone
>>number, then send someone to there house to kill them....
    
    Which would make PGA=Professional Geek Assassins, yes????
    
    JaKe
    

>    Which would make PGA=Professional Geek Assassins, yes????

Yep.


I can just see it now.


Some little guy, a little greasy guy with horned rimmed glasses, and
zits, lotsa zits, sitting in his living room on a gorgeous Saturday 
afternoon, watching the golf match, fondling his private parts while
religiously stroking the laws of golf.

Suddenly, he sees a perceived rules violation.  Jumping up, and almost
falling over because his pants are down around his ankles, he shuffles
to the phone, which he almost drops because of his hairy palms.

Dialing CBS, he tells them what he's seen.


Two hours later there's a knock at his door.  Hitching up his pants, 
pulling on a pair of work gloves he answers the door.  Standing there
is a man in a suit bearing the emblem of the PGA.

He checks the greasy little man's identity, pulls out a silenced 
Beretta 9mm and blows the guy to the great fairway bunker in the sky....


What a satisfying thought......    

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    I thought the recent trend in golf was for spectators to be hit by
    lightening.  I guess I haven't been paying attention.

>>    I thought the recent trend in golf was for spectators to be hit by
>>    lightening.  I guess I haven't been paying attention.

Ya, Ya, Mac, you've been paying attention but didn't put it all together:

Instead of the Free Home Delivery Assassination mentioned by 'Saw, it is in
fact none other than the Great One (no, not Wayne ;^)) who sees the squealing
Turd and zaps him with lightning when he gets a chance.

HTH, rick

:*))))))))

    (I thought the PGA rules committee ruled out having persons call in
    to indicate a rules infringement)
    
    Didn't an official from the tourny blow the whistle on "I_kin_hit_that_
    mutha_a_mile_Daly"?
    
    Anyway, I look at the $25 for a round of golf as $5.00 an hour to
    walk through some quiet landscape (and tear it up) with some other
    hackers (good friends), drink some beer, and get away from the 
    Signifigant other for a few hours.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

 Nope three phone calls from people at home watching cause the PGA officials
 to go back and look at the tape...

 Supposedly his playing partner that day Bruce Litske who told officials
 he saw no violation and that there's was no way he was on the line had a
 lot to do with them not invoking the penality....

 People can still call in anytime they want. What the PGA removed was an
 official who was sitting in the TV truck reviewing the monitors for possible
 infractions...

 mike 

    
    It's really not fair to use TV to spot rules infractions, since all 
    golfers are not treated the same.  This is not like football where 
    every play is filmed from 2-10 different angles.  Those golfers not
    getting any air time simply aren't being scrutinized by the viewing
    audience.   The disqualification of Stadler a few years back really 
    blew my mind...  this one is almost as bad.  
    
    Wistle blowers get a life..   instead of sitting home watching, get out 
    and play a round.  
    
    /Jeff

    Speaking of whistle blowers...
    
    Playing with a buddy of mine, has really made me a stroke counter,
    but the gold god got even, here's a story of a cheater caught dead... 
    
    Grady: uses mulligans on tees and fairways,will throw/kick/nudge/fondle 
    his ball on to a much better lie, forget strokes, plays NO penalty 
    strokes, and *THEN* brag about shooting an 87 and rub beating me in
    my face...
    
    One day ole Grady is teeing off.  The fairway has the O.B. to the right
    of the fairway.  There is a road beyound the trees to the right of the
    O.B. trees.
    
    Grady strides up to the 16th tee, slices the bejesues outta his tee shot.
     
    The ball screams out of bounds, through the trees.  A few seconds later I
    heard a sould like the ball hit sheet metal.
    
    Grady swears he saw the ball bounce off a tree back on the fairway.
    
    No one else (in the foursome) heard the sound so we went on.
    
    Grady finds his ball in the fairway, about 50 yards down from where
    the ball went screaming into the trees.  Looks me dead in the eye and
    says "See d*ckhead, I told you the ball came back in!".
    
    As we finish up on the 18th, the pro comes out to the putting green and
    asks who's playing a "Wilson 3"?  Grady pipes right in and says that is
    the ball he is playing.  The pro asked him if he knocked a tee shot 
    out of bounds on 16.  
    
    Grady (turning red) said he did happen to slice one in that direction.
    
    The pro handed Grady his ball (with a noticable "smile" in the cover)
    and proceeded to explain that his ball went through a girls sun roof
    and landed in her lap.  The girl walked up (Still shaking glass from
    her hair) and had Grady give her his insurance info.
    
    Not only did Grady get caught "shaking a ball out of his pocket" but
    it also cost him $165.00!!!
    
    The golf god smiled...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    I love playing golf, but can't stand watching it.  I took a video
    lesson a while back.  The pro showed shots of pros hitting and asked
    me if I knew who they were.  I said no, I don't watch golf on TV.
    He seemed dumbfounded by this.  
    
    Of course, not watching the sport doesn't apply to baseball,
    basketball, football, tennis or women's pro beach volleyball!
    
    Pete

    Re.18
    
    There's a guy nin our office who never learned the art of penalty
    strokes either.  I golfed with him a couple of times and he always
    "beat" me, at least in his mind.  Then they started up a golf league
    from our office and this guy is now legend for shaving strokes.
    
    JaKe
    

I've golfed with folks like that.  

The sad part is that they're only cheating themselves.

I'm such a lousy golfer that many, many times, I'll say, forget countings
strokes, let's see how many good shots I can put together in a row.
That takes the pressure off and I have fun on the golk course.

Or if I golf with my dad, we'll sometimes just play for beers on who's
better on any given hole.


Golf, unless you're a pro shooting for mega$$$ should be a relaxing time
out in the fresh air....


jMHO,
'Saw

    Re.21
    I remember a tip I saw a couple of years ago where the pro said that
    one of the biggest problems with hackers (not his term) is that they
    take the game too seriously.  He went on to say that golf should be
    *ENJOYED* by the occasional golfer because it is a form of recreation
    and relaxation.  He said that the only one's who should worry about
    their golf game are the pros who need to take the game seriously
    because it is their job.
    
    Since then, I don't get too upset when having a bad day on the
    course,ie no throwing clubs, gouging tees or greens, although my
    language still hasn't cleaned up after hitting a lousy shot.
    
    JaKe
    

    My buddies and I get pretty competitive in all sports...
    
    Thats how we enjoy the game.
    
    But, IMHO, the REAL game of golf isn't hitting a ball until you like
    the shot you hit.  The real challenge is to play the course as it
    comes, and playing the ball where it lands.  Most of the real challenge
    is to play out of trouble, with minimal damage to your score.
    
    My man Grady's arguement is "what's the big deal about one shot", and
    plays another.  
    
    The real truth is, because he is avoiding playing the ball out of 
    trouble, he's probably saving himself maybe three or four stokes.
    Do this a few times over 18 holes, and it makes a difference. 
    
    I do agree, some times I leave the score card behind and just work
    on putting good holes together.  Those are, in actuality, my most
    enjoyable days on the ole' links.         
             
    But cheatin' when you are keepin' score, and especially when you're
    competing (with teams!) that's when I'm bent.
     
    It would be like not counting incomplete pass downs in football.
    
    It's like a weight lifter painting "500lbs" on 100 pound weights and
    telling people he can squat 2,000 lbs...  It's simply not true and it
    irritates me to death.
    
    But, hell, we'll probably be teein' 'em up this weekend, I just keep my
    own score card...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

 another thing Chip about playing the bogus lies is that if you make just
 one great shot from an unhittable lie then your round is made even if you
 take another 100 shots besides that one shinning stroke....

 mike

Even when I'm not playing for strokes, I always play the ball as it lies.

That's half the fun of golf.  The only time I play another ball is if
the first one appears to be lost off the tee.

Oh, and sometimes when I sneak on the course late in the evening I'll
play two or three balls per hole.

But if I hit it in the woods, I play it out of the woods, and yes Mike,
when you power one through two trees and over one between you and
the green, it's Woodie time 8^)


'Saw

    re .20
    
    Jake,
    
    	I hope you are not talking about the "Respected, Esteemed, Held in
    Awe & Notary Public" "Donnie Dynamite"
    
    Paul

    Paul
    
    Nah, Don plays a decent game and doesn't have to forget strokes.  This
    is someone else.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Heard that John Daly has established a trust fund, I believe, for the
    two children of the man who was struck and killed by lightning during
    the tournament.  A classy thing to do.
    
    Lee

>    Heard that John Daly has established a trust fund, I believe, for the
>    two children of the man who was struck and killed by lightning during
>    the tournament.  A classy thing to do.
    
 
 Wouldn't surprise me LeE if he did. They mentioned how a few weeks ago
 he won a tournment for 25K and quickly wrote a check for 5K for the hospital
 that was a part of that tournment...

 He's got no sponsors so he can do what he wants with his money and it's
 refreshing to see him do these things...

 mike

Daly wasn't aware that winning the PGA entitles him to be in the Masters
field for the next five years.

Some of the other pros were lamenting this, as they said that while most
of them will be sweating out 5-iron shots onto Augusta's treacherous
greens, Daly will be able to be lofting 7-irons onto them and have them
softly settle in....

I like this kid.  He's very refreshing....


Also keep an eye on Rocco Mediate.  This guy is *immensely* popular
with the fans, and has some good ability....

'Saw

    You're right about Daly at the Masters.  With his distance and
    the complete absence of any rough at Augusta National, ....
    
    OH MY!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    You win the Masters with your putter, not your driver.
    
    Chris

Right, but it's a helluva lot easier to put a 7 iron on those greens
that trying to hit the green with a 5.

And Daly was putting pretty hot in the PGA anyway...

'Saw

    Since the "Recent Trend in Golf" (#181) topic was starting to wander to
    general golf discussions, I have moved it to the Official Golf Topic.

    RE: .45
    
    Perhaps, but it's generally true that you gotta be long off the tee to
    win at Augusta.
    
    
    - PGA Chris

    S(p)I had a great string on the Letters to the Editor section
    discussing the (mostly) abrasiveness of Dick Vitale and his
    implied (tm)'s.  Only one letter (obviously from Creedmore) thought
    that Dick was great BAYBEEEE!
    
    Oh yeah, Dick Vitale is a lot like a golf course!
    
    I remain,
    nausiatingly yours,
    Kev
    

    	I hafta comment on the finish of the Honda Classic yesterday.
    
    	Corey Pavin comes to his third shot on the 18th. He's two or
    	three strokes behind the leader(s), but ahead of them on the
    	course. He takes out an 8-iron and hits the ball 135 yards into
    	the cup. I mean on the fly. No bounce. No nothing. So, he's the
    	leader in the clubhouse. Fred Couples comes up behind Pavin and
    	makes birdie to go to a playoff, which was won by Pavin on the
    	second hole of the playoff.
    
    	Scott

    
    I hope they show that highlight on the evening sports tonight since 
    I didn't see it.  Sounds impossible to have it go straight in and
    not bounce out.
    
    Dickstah
    

    I think the reason it didn't bounce out because it nicked the edge of
    the hole, enough to slow it down so it doesn't bounce back out.  A bit
    of repair was needed to the hole afterwards where it was nicked. An
    amazing shot!
    
    Hawk
    

    	When I first saw it, I thought it had fallen short, into the
    	bunker. They immediately switched back to the camera that was
    	on Pavin, and you could tell that Pavin and his caddie were
    	celebrating a wonderful shot.
    
    	Scott

    What I can't picture is, how the heck did he see it go in being that
    far away?  Granted, I've never set foot on a golf course (except at
    night once to steal champagne from a wedding reception :-)), so I don't
    understand the distances involved, but this was what, at least 100
    yards?
    
    Hawk
    

     He was 135 yards away....
    
    REK

    Hawk -
    
    Ain't too hard to see the hole from 135 yards away.  Bet you could.  I
    mean, I bet there are some things you could see from 300 yards away ;-)
    
    JD

Yeah, it caught the lip and then hit the stick and dropped in.

It's easy to see that happen when you've hit the ball and you have a
a caddie watching your shot.

The rest of the tournament from that point was spectacular.  Couples
(who's probably the hottest golfer on tour now) made a sweet shot
on 18 to get into the playoff.

Nice to see Pavin win, as he'd only picked up 39K so far this year....


'Saw

    
    >>mean, I bet there are some things you could see from 300 yards away ;-)
    
    I agree, but I'm waiting to find out in the upcoming "--dan'l Tackles
    Night Golfing" or "Kneemarks on #7 green".
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Too bad I missed it - sounded bodacious!
    
    Speaking of golf, anybody like the idea of a golf get together sometime
    after it warms up?  Could be a bunch o fun and even if people don't
    play or are (like me) terrible, we could do a "best ball" type of game.
    
    Who we got who's been known to "tear" up a golf course and do your 
    part to keep greenskeepers employed? (like me?)
    
    jest wonderin...
    Kev
    

    I absolutely LOVE playing golf.
    
    Only problem is, My game is more like "Army Golf"
    
    
    left, right, left, right, left right
    
    JaKe
    

    
    >>play or are (like me) terrible, we could do a "best ball" type of game.
                                                     ^^^^^^^^^
    
    Dunno, from the sound of things, --dan'l has the title wrapped up
    already.
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Not so sure 'bout that JaKe, see in THIS game, each player has gotta
    hold their OWN club!!!!!  No proxies!!!!!
    
    I remain,
    looking forward to a (or several) walks in da woods!
    Kev
    

Jake,


We could be in the same platoon then.  My game is similar to


	a) Hit the Worst DUFFER's shot in the world
	b) Follow it with a professional caliber shot
	c) five putt on the green
	d) Repeat starting at a



'Saw

Mike H. - I'm there (you're gonna handle all expenses, right?).

    I can't but Bruce will ;-)

    They way I hear it from the field, Bruce plays so much he often gets
    confused with the club pro!
    (except once they see him play, it's a no brainer!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    Sheez, I went out and played 18 holes today.  Shot the best I have in 2
    years, and I hadn't picked up a club in 5 months.  Spent the weekend
    breaking up and hauling 5 inch thick concrete, the building treated tie
    walls at the house, so I was EXTREMELY stiff this am.
    
    Now I normally shoot in the low 100's, and this morning, in the high 40
    degree weather, I shot a 97.
    
    Needless to say, I was happier than the proverbial pig in dung.
    
    JaKe
    

Played in a 4 man scramble. Benfits the local H.S. golfers $1000.00 each.

Our team shot a 64 

1 eagle
7 birdies
9 pars 
1 bogey

Played about as well as I have in years past. Looks like the weight training has 
helped control on the approach shot. 

    Golf - a waste of a perfectly good walk.
    
    Mark.

    Only your opinion, Mark.   And we all know what is said about opinions.
    
    JaKe
    

    Golf, Golf is an interesting game...  I call it a game because I 
    don't feel it is a real "Sport" in the true meaning of the word.
    Golf is more like a chess game in which your opponent is the course.
    Golf requires that you stratigize your every move.  You must think 
    clearly and perform well under presure to become a good golfer.
    You must be able to control your emotions and not allow your self
    to become flustered, nervous or upset.  Golf is very much a precision
    game.  One wrong snap of the wrist, turn of the hips or movement of
    the head can have a devistating effect on your shot.  Golf, (if played 
    correctly) is a very relaxing game.  Golf is a game that you can play
    your entire life unlike many of the other "Sports" we weekend jocks
    enjoy in the prime of our lives.  Yes,  Golf is a GREAT game and 
    makes for some very exciting moments.  Theres nothing like standing 
    on the tee of a 200 yrd par three,  pulling out you 3 iron, hitting 
    great shot and whatching the ball as it hits the flag.  If only it
    would go in, just once.
    
    Big Game who can't play enough golf   (addiction is a terrible thing)

    I use to think golf was for ____ (Fill that in with just about
    anything) but 2 yrs ago I started going out with a couple friends.
    After 4 trips I bought a set of clubs and I love it.  I havent hit
    the icy course's up here in Mass yet (Too cold in the morning's still)
    but have traveled to the Driving Range about 3 times.  I seem to be
    hitting them great cant wait to get out there on the first tee for
    the first time and drill my first shot into the WOODS or the WRONG
    FAIRWAY :-(....
    							M.Air.Brooks

I'm a lousy golfer.  Probably the lousiest golfer in the entire world.

Of course, growing up left handed, you don't exactly get a lot in the 
way of golf instruction....


However, I love the game.  What keeps me coming back is that after a 
bunch of terribly awful shots, I'll hit a shot that looks like it came
out of the hightlight films from the PGA tour.   That little "fix" is
enough to keep me coming back....


'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    As a lefty, you have better potential to smash your drives if you
    assume the "rightie" stance and let your left arm pull the club
    through the stroke.
    
    jest takes practice....
    
    I remain,
    partial to orange balls,
    Kev
    

    
    
    Sorry Kev but you have that backwards..  the back arm provides the power
    the front arm provides the control.. the advantage of a lefty going 
    right or a righty going left (cross-golfing ?) is added control, not 
    power..  and if you're letting your front arm "pull the club through" 
    as you stated, I can understand why you can't golf any better than 
    Saw ;-)..   
    
    Not that I'm one to talk.. but I have my moments.   
    
    /Jeff

re the Left-Handed thing:

	I hear you.  In fact some of the best golfer have been
	lefties playing from the righ hand side.  I've only
	ever seen two golfers play truly left-handed:  Bob Charles
	on the Seniors Tour, and Ernie Gonzales on the PGA Tour.

	My problem is that I am THOROUGHLY and completely left-handed.
	I've found in my time that many lefties are closer to being
	ambedextrious, and thus can do things like switch hit in baseball
	and golf right-handed.

	I cannot.  The ONLY things I do right handed are deal cards,
	and throw a frisbee.   Other than that, I am completely and
	hopelessly a southpaw.


	My parents will tell you that it was a bitch teaching me to
	tie my shoes, and I had to teach myself to tie a necktie.

	
	But, I DO enjoy being a lefty, I really do.....


'Saw

    > But, I DO enjoy being a lefty, I really do.....
    
    That 'splains the forest in your left haind, 'Saw...  :-)
    
    
    I never golfed, but it's a goal of mine to someday try the game.  Maybe
    when I stop working part-time and going to night school, I'll have the
    time.  And, don't it cost alot of money too?
    
    Hawk
    

>    I never golfed, but it's a goal of mine to someday try the game.  Maybe
>    when I stop working part-time and going to night school, I'll have the
>    time.  And, don't it cost alot of money too?
    
Not really, compared to other things.

I'm not sure what greens fees are, because the last few times I played
I got to play for free.  (Had done a little watchdog work for the course
next door to me, and they repayed the favor by some free rounds).

But assuming it'll cost you $10 for 9 holes, you could play once
per week for an entire rugby seaosn, and it'd be cheaper than playing
rugby.


'Saw    

    
    Hawk, you seem to be a main who really looks for value so I have
    some advice for you (works for me too!) ;^)
    
    Lets say that the green fee is $10.00.  Now these "serious" golfers
    try to shoot as low a score as possible, 30's or 40's talk gives them
    woodies!  Just to be fair, lets say these "hustlers" shoot a 35.
    
    If'n the green fee is $10.00, the COST PER STROKE is $0.28!  Imagine
    that!  Twenty-eight cents everytime they swing the club.  IMO,
    not very economical at all.
    
    On the other hand, *I* strive for maximum value from my green fees!
    Last year, my average cost-per-stroke was about $0.12!  Twelve cents!
    
    THAT's TRUE VALUE!
    
    I remain,
    still influenced by my purchasing_agent background!
    Kev
    

    
    The power in a right handed golf swing is provided by the left side, so
    'saw would benefit from switching.  I'm naturally lefthanded also, but
    golf righthanded.  Another benefit is that almost all courses are built
    for righties.
    
    Phil Mickelson, of ASU, is another lefty golfer who has/will do well on
    the tour.
    
    I just found out that John Adams, a touring pro, lives three houses
    away from me, I'll have to stop by for a few hints.
    
    And 'saw, you are not the worst golfer.  I caddied for 8 years, and I
    caddied for the world's worst golfer, and it wasn't you.
    
    Brews

    My favorite hole is the one with the windmill.
    
    Mark.

    
    
>    The power in a right handed golf swing is provided by the left side, so
    
    
    Care to explain this one..  it's always been my understanding that the 
    power comes from your back arm push, not your front arm pull.   Besides 
    I'd gladly give up some distance for more control...  it's the shots in 
    the woods that cost you.. not the fact that you can't hit it 250 yrds.  
    
    /Jeff

I'm no expert (even if I'm not the WORST 8^)) but I thought the power
was generated by your HIPS, as you swung.  Bringing the hips through
transfers the power.

That is why, I think, Daly blasts it so far -- he's built like a football
player.....


Just a guess....


'Saw

 explain Ian Woodsam or Davis Love III then Saw...Hips sure help but they
 aren't the only answer....

 Couples isn't that big either....

 

>
> explain Ian Woodsam or Davis Love III then Saw...Hips sure help but they
> aren't the only answer....
>
> Couples isn't that big either....


Yeah, but you don't HAVE to be big to generate awesome hip speed.
Nolan Ryan ain't a huge guy (not as big a your favorite pitcher Roger
Clemens 8^)) but he generates a lot of hip speed and power.

Couples has a swing that is awesomely in synch, so there's not much
waste of power.....

A big guy that SHOULD mash the ball forever, but doesn't seem to that
I've heard of is Phil Blackmar....   Payne Stewart can mash a ball though...


'saw
 

 ok I'll buy that. The way you left it out there the first time though you
 refer to Daly's size for the power....

 FWIW I just happen to have some stats in front of me and Blackmar is 5 th
 in driving distance at 274.5...10 yards behind the leader Daly,,

>
> FWIW I just happen to have some stats in front of me and Blackmar is 5 th
> in driving distance at 274.5...10 yards behind the leader Daly,,


Okay.  

Then my excuse will be that for the most part on tour, Blackmar is the
invisible man, and you never hear about him....   8^)

[Ya got me mikey!]


'Saw

 I don't know what's more incredible, me getting you Saw, or me actually having
 stats handy....

 

Your left hand is the one you wear a glove on. because it is hanging on to a 
left arm extension of your body that can move up to 120MPH. your right hand 
is hanging on for the ride adding a stability and direction. 

Another lefty playing right. 

I had to learn how to play that way cause my brothers both righthanded would 
have killed me in the golf chicken games we used to play. 
3 people in a 25-30 yrd triangle and only 1 golf ball. The object is the next 
person is the flag. if you hit the ball like a girl the guy/flag you were aiming 
for could choose to return the shot right at you. If you cleared that person 
you had a pretty good reaction time for the return shot to avoid a rather large
bruise.  

    'Saw,
    
    Hip movement transfers the weight from back to front, but it's club
    head speed that makes it possible for John Daly to crank them drives
    into the next area code.
    
    I cain generate enuf headspeed with a driver to hit a ball just about
    240 yds, but for msome reason, I cain't hit a damned 4 iron more than
    150 yards.  I golfed with a guy lasted year that hit a 4 iron off of
    the tee on a 215 yd par 3 and hit it over the green.  Awesome, and when
    he hit the ball, if there had been a space shuttle up, it would have
    passed by theie windows, that's how high it went.
    
    I'm a lousy golfer, self-admittedly, and virtually NEVER break 100. 
    Lasted year, I did it only once, shooting a 98, and only did that cause
    I lucked out some pars on the lasted 5 holes.
    
    MOnday, after a weekend of swinging a 20 lb sledge, and hauling away
    what seemed like tons of concrete, then building a wall with treated
    ties, I was damned sore, and extremely stiff.  I hadn't picked up a
    club in almost 6 months, got on the first tee, and cranked one about 10
    yards past the 150 yd markers, on a 405 yd par 4.  Ended up shooting a
    97 that day.  Donj't know if it has anything to do with the weight loss
    or not, but I was able to keep the ball in play all day.  Only hit one
    ball out of bounds, and then recovered to just bogey the hole.
    
    Real test nexted week when ?I play a couple of courses in Myrtle Beach
    S.C.
    
    JaKe
    

I'm one of those ambidextrous lefty types 'Saw.


The left arm (on a right handed swing) generates the power. 

re: Daly...

 One of the reasons Daly hits the ball so far is because he's got everything
 in motion..hips moving, club moving, arms moving, legs moving....he tries to
bring them all together when he makes contact with the ball. When he does...

BBBBAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMM.......

When he doesn't.....it's bbbaaammmm or more often BBBAAAMMMMM into the rough..

Anybody know his ranking in percentage of fairways hit? I bet it's pretty low.
He saves his butt by being able to use a club 2-3x shoter than anybody else for
his approach shot bt more often then not he's hitting from a less than optimal
spot.....Notice you haven't seen him win much since his big victory. His swing is
also pretty much garenteed to result in some sort of back injury sooner or 
later....

I could watch fred couples swing all day though....maybe I'll bump into him
on the links today :-) (he's from Seattle)

BTW - I never liked the game much until I got out here. Too much hassle to get
on a course in New England and too much $$$. We've got a couple of great county
courses out here that only charge $11-14 for 18 holes. Plus you can reserve
Tee times a week in advance....I'm playing a lot more now...but not getting
any better...As 'saw said there is always that 1 shot per round that brings
you back out again...

,metz
Metz. 

>    Hip movement transfers the weight from back to front, but it's club
>    head speed that makes it possible for John Daly to crank them drives
>    into the next area code.
    
Right.

And I would think that physics-wise, you cain't do that by arms alone.
It must be a combo of arms/hips.

When you bring your hips/lowerback/legs into play, you're using the most
powerful muscles in your body.  Add to that the necessary arms to
ADD to that, and you're going DOWNTOWN....


But, then again, I've seen some 70+ year old guys on the course, and they
take the most relaxed swings in the world.   Ball goes out there, and they
play their second shot the same way.  Chip up within 3-5 feet, and hole
out for par.


Guess it's true what they say:  "Drive for show, putt for dough!"


All this talk might get me out on the course sometime this year with
my dad (a 75 year old golfer who can golf me into the ground -- he also always
wants to buy the beers after!)


'Saw

the only thing about playing that old style of golf is that you're never shooting
for birdie. 

2 shots to get you close to the green, chip close to the pin and then putt....

You never see any of the old dudes crank a drive, hit the 2nd shot to within
10 feet of the pin and then putt for bird...

Of course you rarely see me do it either.....

Metz trying to break 90 for the first time this year....

    
    I like Nintendo golf.  It's one of the few video games I understand,
    and the only one I can beat my kids at.  See, they don't understand the
    physics of having wider butt cheeks planted firmly on the floor and how
    it helps to steady your button pushing.  Plus, being older and wiser, I
    know the advantage of taking the "safe" shot in some instances, where
    they always try to go over the water directly toward the pin.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Just got off the phone with a friend who teaches golf here in
    Pittsburgh(scratch handicap), asked him what is the BIGGEST factor in 
    hitting the ball a long way.
    
    His answer:
    
    Wrist angle and motion.
    
    Said that maintaining the correct angle on the wrists, then rotating
    them thru the ball at PRECISELY the correct time produces maximum club
    head speed, and therefore, maximum distance.
    
    He also said this explains why short sh_ts like Ian Woosnam cain drive
    the ball as long as they do.  Nothing to do, particularly with size and
    strength(though he said it helps, see "John Daly"), but timing is
    everything.
    
    Schnort Schit Schleps
    
    JaKe
    
    
    

    
    But Jake, you can get yourself into a lot of trouble relying on 
    wrist action for power.  Note your emphasis on PRECISELY..  if you aren't 
    precise, you're gonna end up slicing or hooking the ball in a MAJOR way.  
    
    I'll stick with the Jack Nicholas swing... and try to stay on the 
    fairways...  full extension, slow back swing, steady head.. bingo.  
    
    /Jeff

    Well,
    
     we have all of the information required for a great golf swing right
    here in the last 10 or so replies.  Jeff Riggen is correct when he
    tells you that the left arm (for a righty) is the arm that generates
    the power.  Saw is correct in stating that you must bring your hip
    through the ball. And Jake (as much as I hate to admit it) is correct
    when he says the the correct angle of your wrist (which BTW should
    product about a 45 degree angle on the club face when the club is 
    parallel to your sholders in your back swing) and snapping them through
    the ball at the precise moment generates the head spped you cannot 
    get with arms alone.  if you want to see a perfect swing watch Freddie
    Couples.   His body is still,  his head never moves, his power arm
    is straight, his swing smooth with perfect tempo, and he bring his 
    wrists and hips through the ball at the precise moment to generate
    tremendous, controled clube head speed.   
    
    Big Game

    
    Jeff H--  there is an easy way to test where you develop your power. 
    Go to a driving range with a 5 iron.  1st swing with just your right
    arm (one handed), then swing with just your left.  Watch which one goes
    farther.
    
    RE Daly-- the guy is pretty accurate, especially for such a long
    hitter.  You don't have a feel for how hard he swings, however, until
    you see it in person.  TV doesn't give you the same feel.
    
    Brews

    re: Daly
    
     John also uses a 3" or 4" over length super stiff flex shaft on his
    driver.  That coupled with the fact that he brings the club head around
    far enough to hit himself in the ankle on his back swing allows him to 
    really put some heat on the ball.  The man unwinds a club like no one
    else I've seen.  Brews is correct...  when you see this guy in person 
    it really awesome.  They had him out at one of the denver airports
    lasted(tm) year during the International.  He teed up on the run way
    and cranked one.  They had this camera man about 700 or 800 yrds down
    the runway photographing it.  You see the ball come in, bounce and
    bounce and bounce.  It's approching the camera man quickly and all of a 
    sudden you see him duck as the ball goes by.  It went a total of 1000
    yds or so if I remember correctly.  As far as accuracy...  As Brews
    said,  the guy hits a lot of fairways for being such a long hitter. 
    Daly's problem lies in his short game. 
    
    
    	Big Game

    Being an avid golfer, my wife is slowly getting used to me coming home
    late.
    
    Monday, I went out to the course alone, and the starter teamed me up
    with a 21 year old young lady who, should we say, was absolutely
    beautiful.
    
    We played 18 holes and talked and talked, got to know each other, and I
    must admit, even though I'm married, I was QUITE attracted to her. 
    After the round was over, I said goodbye to her, but she asked me if
    I'd like to come over to her house, which was about a mile from the
    course, and have lunch.  I said I shouldn't, but said what the hell and
    went over.
    
    After eating lunch, we were sitting there having a beer and she leaned
    over and planted the wildest kiss of my life on my lips.  One thing
    lead to another and before I knew it, I was in bed with her.
    
    We lost track of time, and eventually fell into an exhausted sleep.
    When I woke up, I looked at the clock, which said 6:58 pm.  As I had
    left for the course at 6:30 am, I figured the wife would be VERY, VERY
    angry.  I also felt as guilty as I've ever felt in my life.  My wife
    and I have this relationship where we tell each other EVERYTHING, and I
    felt, since I'd done her wrong by sleeping with this vixen, I had to
    tell her the truth, and take the consequences.
    
    Well, I got home, and my wife was very peaved, waiting at the door.  I
    broke down in tears, told her that I had met this young lady, got to
    know her over a round of golf, went to her house, innocently, to have
    lunch afterwards, ended up in bed, and fell asleep, waking up near 7
    o'clock, then come home.  I then asked her if she could ever forgive me
    to which she replied:
    
    
    You lying Son of a b_tch, you played 54 holes today, didn't you??????
    
    
    
    
    
    JaKe
    

Reminds me of the time I went to Scotland for a nice golfing holiday and was 
playing the famed St Andrews Old Course.

Me and me mate Ralph were paired with a couple of local geezers, MacGregor and 
McShane. Ralph and me were getting tuned up pretty bad in the windy conditions
when we came to the infamous 17th.....the Road Hole.  All of us reach the green
in regulation and as we were approaching the green noticed a long funeral
procession along the road.

Well 'ol MacGregor stops, drops to one knee, bows his head and waits till the
procession end.

I was truly touched and didn't quite know what to say.

So I waits til we're all finished putting and I mention to MacGregor what a nice
gesture he made back there, and he says,

"Twas the least I cud du....that women gave me the finest 30 years of er life"  

    After years of just thinking about it, I'm finally going to do it- buy
    a set of clubs, used that is, and cheap. :-)  Anyway, I got a question. 
    I have the option to buy a cart for $10.  The strap's broke, but
    otherwise in good condition, and a bungie cord can be used in place of
    the strap.  What I'm wondering about is, is a cart necessary?  In other
    words, am I going to be saying to myself the 1st time I'm out on the
    course, "Wish I had bought that damn cart!"?  How much does a cheap new
    one go for anyway?
    
    Thanks,
    Hawk
    

Hawk,

I've used a cart, and I've carried my clubs.

A cart is nice if you have it.  You can wheel along, park your cart,
pull your clubs, and take your shot.......

The only hard part about a cart that I found was it make taking the
clubs out of the trunk a little harder.

For $10 you can't go wrong.....


'Saw

       You cain always strap a quarter keg on the cart Kwak!
                                     Denny

    > You cain always strap a quarter keg on the cart Kwak!
    
    I just knew there was a practical use for a cart.  Thanks, Denny!
    
    Hawk
    

    Golf is a waste of a perfectly good walk.
    
    Mark.

    Hockey is a waste of a perfectly good fight.
    
    Hawk.
    

    Rasslin participants are a waste of skin.

    Watch it Hawk!!
    Let's not talk about breaking thangs willya, especially in this note!
    Ah was lookin' forward to playin' a few rounds down the Cape nexted
    week. Now all I cain look forward to is 8 weeks of "Ah, honey, fetch
    me another beer, willya puleeze??"  Wonder how long it'll be before
    ah catch that fryin' pan over the haid??
    
    MikeL
    
    

    
    
    .109 is a waste of perfectly good disk space.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    Kwah, buy the cart, it's well worth it on one of those hot and muggy
    days.
    
    How's Julie's hand doing?  Glad you stopped by the other day.
    
    Funny, ain't it, how it seems I'm always outside why you drive by, but
    you don't always drive by when I'm outside.  Hows come?
    
    lEe

Real men carry their bag.


HTH

Steve

    > Funny, ain't it, how it seems I'm always outside why you drive by,
    > but you don't always drive by when I'm outside.  Hows come?
    
    lEe, I'm not Santa Claus...  :-)
    
    Julie's still got some soreness in her thumb, but her trainer (me!) has
    been working on it every night.  She had one of her NECCO league hoops
    games last night, and hit a trey and a two.  The two-pointer was a
    beauty too- a nice, high-arcing swish!
    
    Back to the golf topic.  I got the clubs yesterday.  What a deal ($35)!
    I passed on the cart though.  I'll get one if I feel I need it.  I hear
    they're cheap to rent too.
    
    Remembering the classic blooper by Mrs. Arnold Palmer on Johnny Carson,
    before I play my inaugural round, should I have my wife kiss my balls?
    
    :-)
    
    Hawk
    

Point taken =Bob=

Heck Farley, I bet if I screwed a hunk a wood to your haid and bound
up your legs with some leather, you'd make a hell of a driver! And
you could probably fit in a golf bag to boot!


8^))

    
    Gotsta be on some of the dINsMorE/chAInsAW 'shrooms with that idea!
    
    Foist - there's either gotta be some mass between Farley's ears to
    anchor the screws.  Medically speaking, that's still a mystery!  If
    there is some sore of dense matter, it's probably granite and to put a
    anchoring device in granite requires either dynomyte of a jack hammer.
    Either case would probably disfigure the face causing the golfball to
    hook/slice or dribble.  Do you REALLY want to risk your score using a
    club like that?????
    
    Leather straps shrink when wet (cause by drool or beer drops).  That
    would cause the shaft (legs) to warp resulting in a whacko spin on the
    ball.  Again, do you really wanna risk your score?  Perhaps RACH or
    Hawk would agree to instruct you in the fine art of rugby taping......
    
    snort schlep schlops.....
    
    [:-)
    
    I prefer,
    being a woodie!
    Kev
    

    > Heck Farley, I bet if I screwed a hunk a wood to your haid and bound
    > up your legs with some leather, you'd make a hell of a driver!
    
    Now THIS is the closest thing to being alot like rugby that I've ever
    seen!  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    Do they allow wooden battering rams in a scrum?
    
    deen to wonk!
    
    I remain,
    a flat top!
    Kev
    

>    Do they allow wooden battering rams in a scrum?
    
No.

But if you're the tight head prop, and you've been beating up on the
hooker all day, watch out for his knee.  If you don't, you might get
a bloody nose.


hth,
'Saw


PS  In another week or so, my Dad and I are gonna go play golf.  I'll
    put in a report.

    The way *I* play golf, it'll read like a Lowell Thomas Travelog!    

    I've yet to set foot on any golf course, but I cain picture the length
    of time it takes to get through 9 and 18 holes (a complete round,
    right?), but what amazes me is hearing at the start of last night's
    USA-Argentina game that Michael Jordan spent the day playing 36 holes!
    
    I've heard that golf is real addicting.  While I have no desire to
    become addicted, especially at $25 a round, I am dying to see what this
    is all about...
    
    By the way, is it my technique or what?  I axed my wife if she'd kiss
    my balls for good luck before my inaugural round, and even implied that
    it could turn into a routine ritual before every round, and she decked
    me!  I mean, WTF?!  Arnold Palmer's wife's been doing this for years,
    and they're rich and he seems pretty happy too!  What should I do now? 
    Should I axe my neighbor's wife?  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    RE: Golf being addicting...Just ask Lawrence Taylor, since that's how
    he cured his cocaine habit a few years ago. They always say that people
    who kick one addiction usually find another addiction to take it's
    place....
    
    Tom 

    How did LT fit the balls up his nose?
    
    Perspiring mimes and all that..
    
    Mark.

>
>    How did LT fit the balls up his nose?
>    
>    Perspiring mimes and all that..
>    
>    Mark.


Mark,

This is definitely the funniest note today, and I for one am rolling all
over myself laughing.

You made my day, man, and it's taken A LOT to do that lately!


8^)

'Saw

    Markie,
    
    Rollward big time!!!!!
    
    Think he had Mr. Walton help remove them later?????
    
    sweating.....
    
    Helen
    

Kev yer a riot! 8^)

Awhk, golf is addicting, but it's also expensive, unless you become 
good at sneaking on to the course! Also it is a very fustrating game
at times, but it's that one nice shot that keeps you going back for
more. The more you play the better you get, or is it the more you drink?



Steve

    
    > kick one addiction usually find another addiction
    
    That's how Wade Boggs gave up his chicken habit.
    

       Interesting tidbit in 'Ask The Glob' today:
    Q. Where is the longest golf course in the world?
    A. The 8,325yd course (par 77) at The International Golf Club in
    Bolton. The course boasts the largest green in the world, the fifth,
    which measures 32,400 sq ft, according to golf director Bob Sanderson.
                                    Denny

       Wang owned the Groton CC for a while. Think they sold it though. ITT
    owns the International, the article says it used to be called Runaway
    Brook. It's right offa rte 117.
                                  Denny

    That's 5th hole is also the longest fairway (par 5).
    
    Mike (ex-IGC caddy)

    re somwhere a few back on golf being $25/round
    
    Hail, at the club where I belong, I pay $11 to play 18 holes on a
    QUALITY golf course, not some cow-pasture with flags.
    
    Belonged at this place on my dad's membership starting in 1971, then
    joined on my own in 1978 when I got out of the Air Farce.
    
    One of the nicer golf courses, not real long(6200 yards, par 71) but
    challenging and they got great greens and fairways.
    
    Total cost per year to be a member, 
    
    $22.50(for husband and wife membership, if for whole family, $25)
    
    
    JaKe
    

       Yeah but what's your best score on the windmill hole JAke?
                                   Denny

    Funny, Denny, very Freakin' funny!!!
    
    
    (8^0*
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    How old is the Bob Sanderson?  I used to work at Crestview CC in
    Agawam, and their was a Bob Sanderson who was one of the assistants,
    there.  I'd heard he was head pro somewhere east, wonder if it's the
    same guy.  As an ex-caddie, glad you didn't do the cart thang, Hawk. 
    Besides, those things ain't as mobile as you are gonna need for some of
    the places your balls will end up (and we'll keep your neighbor out of
    this).
    
    Brews

    Oh yes the internation, what an Awsome course to walk on.... You just
    cant beat there long rolling green fairways... I can remeber just
    recently hopping the fence from Twin Sprint to pick up my ball on the
    Internation Fairways :-).....
    
    For $9 weekdays and $13.50 Weekends Twin Springs has nice greens, nice
    fairways and good tee off's... (almost broke 100 last week had a 93
    after the 17th hole... Then put 2 in the woods and finished with a
    101 :-(.....
    
    							M.Air.B

       Hey Brooksie, How bout dem Bullz!!?
                                         Denny

    Didn't I see Michael J. shooting something like +20 in that Celebrity
    Golf Tournament lasted weekend?
    

    You guys are old.  I broke 100 my 2nd time on the course and never
    looked back.  Working on the 80's now...

    Sheet.. I hit the hi 60's low 70's everytime I go out...
    
    REK
    
    Of course the hole with the windmill KILLS me everytime... :-}

    
    So it seems that Hawk's been doing some golfing in his newly found free
    time. :*(
    
    He told me that on one hole, he hit his ball into a field filled with
    buttercups.  He went into the field, hit his ball out and left the
    buttercup patch without stepping on a single buttercup when suddenly a
    leprachaun appeared.  POOF!
    
    The leprachaun told Hawk that since he didn't step on a single
    buttercup, he would be rewarded.  The leprachaun told Hawk that for the
    rest of his life, he'd be supplied with butter - never would he go
    without butter.
    
    "Shucks", Hawk replied, "why couldn't you have waited until I hit it
    into the pussy willows?"
    
    ta boom!
    
    Kev
    

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+TM                                                   ----------- 
|d|i|g|i|t|a|l|                     U.S. News                         LIVE WIRE
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+                                                     ----------- 

     Digital withdrawing as title sponsor of annual Seniors golf tournament 

  Digital plans to withdraw as the title sponsor of the annual Digital Seniors
  Golf Classic beginning with the 1993 tournament.  The company has sponsored 
  the PGA Senior Tour event, which is held at Nashawtuc Country Club in 
  Concord, Mass., since 1981.

  The company decided to withdraw as title sponsor after closely examining 
  its business priorities.  However, Digital has indicated that it will 
  continue to be associated with the tournament in other capacities.  The 
  company also indicated that it will assist Nashawtuc Charities, Inc., 
  organizer of the event, in acquiring a new title sponsor.

  The 1993 tournament dates of Aug. 2-8 have already been established by the 
  Senior PGA Tour, and it is again scheduled to be nationally televised on ESPN.

The tournament just got the national airplay ESPN this year, Whatever company
picks this up is gonna kill us. I wouldn't be suprised to see the "HP Senior 
Classic"  I've always been irked by the SCORING by IBM shown before every 
commercial. 

Jeff

Boy, so much for the "MARKETING COMPANY" stuff.

Some folks just don't understand how friggin valuable it is to get THE NAME
out in front of the public!   That's why everyone knows IBM.

Absolutely stupid move, yet again, by this company.

Why don't we simply roll up in a ball and die.  This company had no
advertising for years - "The PRoducts sell themselves..." is the line, I
believe.

Sheesh.

JD

    My dad was a marshall at this year's tourney.  Even got on ESPN's
    camera a couple times.

    
    Palmer's biggest concern right now is to keep as much cash as possible
    inside DEC.  That's why Canobie, service award dinners (2 of my group's
    biggest projects every year) and Golf were nixed.
    
    All other concerns just aren't that important right now...
    
    FWIW...
    
    Cath

    
    To keep it on track,
    
    John Daly won his first PGA tournament since he won the Masters in 1991
    in Endicott, NY. over the weekend.  
    
    just thought you's like to know.....
    
    Kev
    

  Daly won the PGA Championship not the Masters....

  I remain still in awe of Kev

  mike  ;^0

Cath -

I hear ya - but unlike service recognitions and Canobie Lake, the Digital
Seniors
classic is a marketing event.  It is (was) one of the few (if only) times that
Digital actually puts it name in front of the public.  Sometimes you have
to look beyond the simple dollars to measure worth.

And not just to you, but once a company starts making all decisions by
looking at the dollar, you can get ready for the worst.  Once the accountants
start running the boat, the liferafts are gone and the waters coming in.

Digital has horrible name recognition when compared to our competitors.  They
of course advertise and market, and sponser events that get publicity.

JD

The other evening I did watch "I Witness Video", expressly for the
segment on the Titanic.  They were some awesome pictures of the
boat lying on the bottom.

At one point, as they panned across the bow, I could have sworn
that I saw, right up there in the front



the name DIGITAL on the bow........


'Saw

    How many of those outside of DEC and/or New England ever heard of this
    Digital Seniors Classic anyway?  If I didn't work for DEC I never would
    have known it existed.
    
    Anybody out there run a cost/benefit analysis on this event before they
    started the DEC marketing bashing?

       ESPN carried it this year. So I'm sure plenty of people heard about
    it for a change.
                              Denny

>    Anybody out there run a cost/benefit analysis on this event before they
>    started the DEC marketing bashing?
    
    DEC hasn't done that for some of the plants they have closed, why would
    they do it on this tournament?

Mac -

I assume I'm a DEC marketing basher.  If you think this company's done a 
good job marketing itself - well I beg to differ.  And I've worked for
IBM so I've been in a company that does market itself very well.  Perhaps
the products arent' as great at Big Blue, but they know that marketing sells -
especially as the customer becomes less sophisticated.

I know that when I was out west, Digital was not a well known name.  I've
also been to many trade shows where our prescence was either non-existant, 
while our competitors were very visible, or we had a second-rate booth/demo/
expo area - one that made us look like a minor player.  

I know all about the arguments K.O. used about advertising, but name recognition
is one of the most important factors in marketing.  

And given the economic demographics of those who watch golf, sponsering a 
golf tournament is a great name recognition event.  

As I said, you can't do simple bean counting with everything.

JD

    
     I'm with, Mac. If'n you're an MIS person or someone invovled in the
    decision making process as far as buying a computer goes, is whether
    DEC sponsors a golf tournament or not going to factor into you're
    final decision ? Could our marketing dollars be better spent ? Is
    this whole string only faintly related to sports ? Did Pee Wee Herman
    act alone ? Was that a stupid question ? 
    
    

    To dispute JD's assault on DEC's decision to drop it's sponsorship of
    the Senior's Classic.......
    
    I am a golf fan......and I could not tell you right now a SINGLE
    sponsor of a Senior PGA Tour Event!!!  I've seen parts of many Senior's
    Tourneys over the course of the summer....but NO sponsors come to mind.
    
    
    Digital may not be very good at marketing itself, but one of their
    mistakes may very well have been sponsoring the Seniors Tourney in the
    first place!!!
    
    
    Nelly

Tommy -

I guess its because we simply don't sell computers anymore.  And to tell you
the truth, many times (and it will grow in the future) you aren't dealing
with MIS folks.

On one project I'm working on now, which could mean multi-millions, the 
potential customer doesn't care about hardware (they have it already) or
network (they have it) - they want software, but more importantly they
want services.  They want their users to be happy.  Their users are not
MIS folks - they are clerks, etc.  Folks who will have a say in the decision
of who wins.  

We don't and can't simply keep going on the assumptions that fellow
engineers will buy our stuff and that our products will sell themselves.

I did read a few things where sales execs and account managers said the
Srs. Classic was a great promotional tool for them.  

JD

Nelly -

Perhaps my 'assault' as you call it has to do more with what I see as 
inffectual marketing by this company.  I'm not alone in this - as its been
one of the weaknesses exposed in many articles.  

In a recent survey, Digital's name recognition was well below that of
our major competitors.

Canceling sponsership of this one event may not be the biggest thing or
blow to this company - of that I'm certain, but it is simply an example
of focusing on the wrong things.

Having also worked for a company that went belly up - I mean every employee -
all 1600 of us, out of work - I can see signs of the same attitude that
company had as Digital does now.  

For those in the Greater Maynard area, it may be hard to envision a region
where everyone doesn't know Digital - but they are out there.

IMO, these moves also convey a sense of panic to the buying public.

JD

       Well JD, I've got 5 projects in the lab downstairs that ALL involve
    selling hardware.
                                     Denny

Denny -

No doubt we still sell hardware.  But we'll never get out of our problems by
selling hardware.  Those days are long over.  

Software and services are where its at.   And I'm not alone in that either.

JD

    
    But the software and services we sell have much of their costs covered
    by the hardware, but the books don't show it that way.
    
    Brews, with a $4 million HARDWARE order 2 weeks away

    C'mon Brews, who ya trying to fool?  Internally, it's a fairly well
    known fact that we're almost "giving" away the h/w at or below cost
    to leverage the s/w & service revenue.
    
    I'm not passing judgement on right/wrong, just passing on an
    observation of someone who speaks to 100's of reps all the time.
    
    To keep this sports related, I wish we had some hardware so good we
    could always score a hole-in-1 on all our sales!
    
    Btw, how does *Ixxyx* feel about Alpha? Will Px be a winnah?
    
    I remain,
    keeping my fingers crossed that Brews books that $4M order!!!!!
    Kev
    

 maybe we should backfill with jellybeans?

 mike

Brews -

That's great.   I'm not 'bashing' hardware.  I started at DEC in low-end
workstations (i.e. Hardware).

But just about everyone in the industry knows that selling iron is not going
to work.  

JD

       So if noone sells H/W, exactly what does all this S/W run on? Seems
    to me it's all a matter of selling the RIGHT hardware!
                                        Denny

    Without getting into the debate about HW vs SW, I am saddened that the
    company is discontinuing sponsorship of the tournament.  It's not that
    I have any great love for the tournament, but I feel the sponsorship
    was an important marketing tool:
    
    1.  Name recognition, advertising and so forth
    2.  A chance for key executives of this company to schmooze with people
    making buying decisions for current and potential future customers.
    
    The amount of business that can get done in this kind of atmosphere is
    incredible, and it's one reason why women fight so hard to get into
    all-male clubs.  It perpetuates the old-boy network.
    
    The New Boston Garden is being advertised in business pages as a great
    opportunity to entertain clients.  While it's not the real purpose of
    sporting events, it's become a purpose of sporting events.  Look at the
    corporate tents and so on at the Super Bowl.
    
    It's kind of like my feeling about promotions at sporting events.  I
    don't like them because they take away from the purity of the event,
    but they are necessary.
    
    John
    

    
    Yabbut
    
    Anybody remember the name of the lady golfer quoted in thisted week's
    SI?
    
    From the tee, she hit de ball.  It hit a tree branch and bounced back
    and (quoted from SI) "hit her in the bra".  She said, "I'll take the
    two stroke penalty but I refuse to hit it where it lies."
    
    
    ;^)
    
    
    It was also rumored that --dan'l was at the tournament, saw what
    happend, and rushed from the galley to rub where the ball struck!
    
    
    I remain,
    disappointed he's not here.
    
    Kev_for_JaKe
    
    

    
    	Two golfers who always played together turned up at their club
    for their weekly match.
    Both were less than happy with their normal performance on the course
    and would have given anything for a decent score for a change, normally
    their rivalry overcame their concern at breaking a 100.
    However, this one day they decided that there was one sure way that
    they could play and get a good score.
    It was agreed... they would play with an imaginary ball each.

    So Fred steps up to the first tee, shapes up (no ball) swings his
    driver........ and says "There it goes right down the middle !!".
    Jim follows him, in the same manner, swings .... and says "What
    a beauty, down the left fading back to miss that bunker !!".
    
    Well, you can guess what the rest of the round was like, they came
    to the last hole , all square at 10 under par, feeling very pleased
    with themselves.
    
    Jim teed off, swung his driver, and shouted "My word ( or similar)
    What a drive ! Best I've hit all day... Greg Norman would be proud
    of that". Fred follows " Holy Cow ! Mine has ended up just alongside
    yours !". So Jim swings for his second shot and says " Great, on
    the green, 10 foot from the hole". Fred follows " Straight at the
    flag, I'm 10 foot away too !".
    They get to the green , Jim takes his putter motions a stroke and
    says " Straight in, what a round, I guess we share the match", at
    which Fred says " Sorry, old boy.... you just played my ball! "

    
Golf Terms:

Golfing - A pastime that gives people cooped up in the office all week
	  a chance to lie and cheat outdoors.

Sand Trap - A deep depression filled with sand, filled with golfers in a
	    deep depression.

Local Rules - A set of regulations that are ignored only by players on
	      one specific course rather that by golfers as a whole.

Fairway - A narrow strip of mown grass that separates two or more golfers
	  looking for lost balls in the rough.

Driving Range - A place where golfers go to get all the good shots out
	        of their system.

Play It As It Lies - One of the two fundamental rules of golf. The other 
	             one is "Wear It If It Clashes."

Ball - A dimpled sphere with a weight of 1.62 ounces and a diameter of 1.68 
       that will enter a cup 4.25 inches in diameter and 4.0 inches deep 
       after an average of 3.87 putts.

Hole-In-One - An occurrence in which a ball is hit directly from the tee
	      into the hole on a single shot by a golfer playing alone.

Tap-in - A putt short enough to miss one-handed.

Rough - Area bordering the fairway where, depending on local conditions,
	the ball may be obstructed, lost, eaten or stolen and used as
	an object of worship by primitive peoples.

Hook & Slice - To hit a shot sharply left or right. Golfers who do one
	       or the other should change their stances, grips or swings.
	       Golfers who do both should change the way they spend their
	       weekends.

Practice - The process through which a golfer converts a nasty hook into a
	   wicked slice.

    
    
    I remain,
    a cross-poster & army golfer!
    Kev
    

>    a cross-poster & army golfer!

Just as long as yer not a cross dresser.....    

    
    Yabbut actually, I do get angry when I have ta put my clothes back on!
    
    I remain,
    au naturally yours!
    Kev
    

    ...especially if her husband comes home early.
    
    Brews
    

VNS TECHNOLOGY WATCH:                           +Mike Taylor, VNS Correspondent+
---------------------                           +Littleton, MA, USA            +

                              Electronic Golf Pro

    A golf pro can help you prefect that power swing or kill off a nasty
    slice. But "a gold lesson has the lasting value of a couple of drinks,"
    says PGA pro Michael McTeigue. McTeigue, who is also president of
    SportSense Inc., thinks he can make the training stick with a four part
    electronic system that corrects a golfer's stance and swing. The Golf
    Swing Tuner (GST) uses a sensor worn inside the shoe to measure the
    weight transfer from one foot to the the other as you swing. Another,
    attached to your club, tallies the tightness of your grip. Sensors
    strapped to your back measure how quickly your body twists and
    calculates the angle of your shoulders and waist during the swing.
    Finally, sensors in your cap warn if you bounce up and down or lean
    too much. The modules, about $100 each, send signals to a $250 Walkman-
    sized computer that tallies the signals and beeps you through headphones
    whether you in or out of proper form. The first two units are on the
    market. The Mountain View company will release the last two in 1993.

    {Business Week Oct 26, 1992}

    re-.1
    
    I think it'd be more effective, and help ya learn faster if everytime
    ya did something wrong, it sent 5000volts thru your filberts.  Tell me
    you wouldn't learn the swing, and weight transfer, and stance in about
    23 seconds, then ya wear it on the course, and fer sure you'd shoot a
    66.
    
    
    JaKe
    

Just to drive home how much fun this sport is but last Friday I played 25 holes 
of Golf at the Broadmoor. 

The place has 3 golf courses West, East "site of the 1960 U.S.Amatuer 
Championship" and the South. My dad and I tee'd off on the West. This course 
plays what I'd call real golf. 

1. 372 yrd par 4 dog leg right. 
2. 477 yrd par 5 straight elevated green. 
3. 438 yrd par 4 long hole
4. 380 yrd par 4 
5. 176 yrd par 3 big lake in the last 20 yrds. 
6. 455 yrd par 4 dog leg left 
7. 392 yrd par 4 dogleg left you have to drive the ball 260 to see the green. 
8. 475 yrd par 5 
9. 194 yrd par 3 

I finished out at a 47 

10. 522 yrd par 5 long M.F.
11. 214 yrd par 3 
12. 460 yrd par 4
13. 353 yrd par 4 I almost drove the green the second time. 
14. 427 yrd par 4 
15. 454 yrd par 4 
16. 197 yrd par 3 
17. 447 yrd par 4 
18. 504 yrd par 5 


out at 42   89 for the round and to be met by someone that cleans the clubs and 
hands you your shoes is really a pleasurable treat. 

The things that made this round fun. The sand traps are like hitting out of 
powered sugar. The greens are smooth and the breaks are unreal always away 
from the mountain. 

Jeff

    
>>10. 522 yrd par 5 long M.F.
    
    Short par 5 by my standards.  The place where I normally play has a 583
    and 556 yard par 5's.  Those are long m.f'ers.
    
    JaKe
    

1.427 4
2 354 4 
3 404 4 
4 420 4
5 165 3
6 544 5
7 471 4
8 482 5 
9 239 3
      

Jeff out at 46

10. 488 4 
11. 432 4 
12  417 4 
13  182 3
14  619 5 280 drive 220 3 wood and I'm still 220 from the green.
15  421 4 
16  165 3 
17  415 4 
18  573 5 last 180 yrds is all water...

in at 50  not complaining about a 96 but this was fun. 

Jeff

    Thanks for the invite Jeff...  I'll be thinking about you when I'm
    playing Castle Pines...   ;^)
    
    BG

    
    re: Jeff
    
14  619 5 280 drive 220 3 wood and I'm still 220 from the green.
    
    I think your math needs a little work.  (280 + 220 = 500, which would 
    leave you 120, not 220 from the green).   I tend to doubt you're hitting 
    the ball 280..  unless of course the altitude puts that much extra 
    distance on your shot.  Most golfers tend to over estimate the distance
    of their drives, a 250 yarder is a real rarity for most folks.  
    
    How much of a difference does the altitude make, anyhow.  Can't say as
    I've ever golfed a mile high..  (although I know I've been a mile 
    high when golfing).   
    
    /Jeff

    
    >>distance on your shot.  Most golfers tend to over estimate the distance
    >>of their drives, a 250 yarder is a real rarity for most folks.  
      
    BS, utter BS.  I, personally, during my rounds of Army Golf, almost
    always hit my drives about 300 yards.  That's 175 out, and 125 to the
    right, or to the left.  Oops, better watch out when mentioning right
    and left, political discussions are no no's and I could get my pee-pee
    whacked fer it.
    
    
    JaKe

    
      Jeff is a good golfer...  I have no doubt that he can hit the ball
    250 consistently off of the box and 280+ when he really gets into it.
    I personally can reach 250 and have seen others in my golf league hit
    the ball 300+ on occasion.  I pace off all of my drives from the
    nearest distance marker to eliminate errors of judgement in distance.
    
     Distance gained from altitude in minimal...   I'd say here in the
    Springs (about 6500 ft) that it might add 15 to 20 yrds...  no more 
    than that. 
    
    BG  (who just got a new shaft on his driver since he broke the last one
         over his knee in a fit of anger,  60$ worth of graphite into
         splinters...  Not very smart)

Seems like when I play in Atlanta or Phoenix a 420 yrd hole seems real long.

The part that is real mucky is the approach shot of 190 to 200 yrds. In Altitude 
you cain hit a 3-4 iron 200 without really trying to kill the ball.

Vail is even better for the ego... a 320 yrd par 4 is reachable off the tee. 

Jeff

    I think most golf courses need to work on there markers and recalculate
    the REAL distances.  When I go the the driving range im lucky to hit 5
    balls out fo a bucket 250+ yrds but have played serveral course that
    claim I drove 280-300yrds off the TEE.... DOUBT IT.  ALthough Ive seen
    many people that hit 250-300yrds dont go by the course markers....
    		

    	I was watching the mumble Shoot-Out over the weekend from
    	Core-du-lane (I know I spelled it wrong) Idaho.
    
    	Players come to a 313-yard hole. LOTS of water. Everyone hits
    	an iron except John Daly. He takes out a driver and puts
    	the ball on the green in flight. Even the other pros were
    	hooting and hollering about the shot (and attitude) of Daly.
    	Fuzzy Zoeller walks up and asks Daly, "What are you thinking
    	when you take a driver and hit a shot like that?"
    	What Fuzzy meant: "You're a strange golfer for shooting a shot
    	like that."
    
    	Scott

    
     One reason for hitting the ball shorter at the range is because
    they use shit balls with super hard covers to get some life outta
    them.  Distance and ball go hand in hand, so to speak !!
    
    BG

not a bad drive BBJ Daly he also made 3-5 50yrd fg's. 

Jeff

    
     The Donks outght to sign him durring the off season...  However, 
    golf doesn't seem to have an off season.  ;^)
    
    BG