Conference 7.286::sports_91

    NBC did some stuff on the effect on the East Germans of the merger of
    the sports programs with the West Germans.  Basically, the East Germans
    will still be a factor in the coming Olympics, but the sports machine
    has already been dismantled, and for the youngsters who had been tapped
    previously, their development has hit the skids.  Same thing appears to
    have happened in the Soviet Union, although for more economic reasons
    than political.  Basically, no one can afford to foot the bill for
    sports development.  Until their economies have a little slack back
    (they're going to have trouble feeding everyone this winter, which is
    kind of basic) sports is going to take a back seat.
    
    I'd also expect to see more athletes trying to turn pro in the Western
    leagues.  Again, it's as much an economic as political thing. 
    Politically, eastern bloc athletes can finally leave their countries
    and retain their earnings.  Economically, the leagues, teams, and
    training they received in their home country aren't being funded any
    more.  To have access to top-notch coaches, trainers and competition, 
    they'll have to go outside the country - at least for a while.  What
    the current coaches and trainers are doing is anyone's guess.  Some of
    them may be able to follow in the footsteps of Bela Karolyi and set up
    shop somewhere in a less economically devastated part of the world.
    
    I'm not sure how I feel about the likely changes.  It'll be interesting
    to see what happens in both 1992 and 1994/6.  (Winter Games will be two
    years off from Summer Games after this Olympics.)
    
    A&W

    
    A&W,
    
    I agree that we'll see many athletes (eventually) turn pro.  I also
    
    envision an accelleration in "World League" formations since
    
    the barriers are (mostly) down BUT I wonder if there will be
    
    former EB athletes moving into western countries to try for berths
    
    on THOSE teams.  
    
    Whattya think?
    
    Kev
    

    Kev -
    
    I kinda think they'll be turning pro but not changing nationality.  
    We've seen the beginning of what I think the trend will be.  Come to 
    the US (or other free market country) for college or pro team.  Play 
    for them.  National teams get picked based on the athlete's performance 
    on their free market team.  (Soccer has been doing things this way for 
    quite a while, actually, for the World Cup squads.)  Those few sports 
    which still have truly amateur players and no leagues and such, like
    some of the shooting events, archery, sailing, and rowing are likely to
    see a sudden drop-off in formerly East-bloc participation.
    
    A&W

    The effect of the merging of the Germanies has already been felt in the
    Sports world.  The all-powerful East German Women have not been nearly
    as dominant - this was extremely evident in the Swimming World
    Champeenships.  They used to dominate - this year they were virtually
    non-existant.
    
    In the long run, Germany will field strong Olympic teams - the West
    Germans always made good showings.  In the T&F champeenships, the
    Germany's did all right - but in the past, the East Germans (again,
    riding the dominance of their women) were fighting with the USA and the
    USSR for the total medal lead.  Katrine Krabbe was the only real
    standout from the old East German team.
    
    What may suffer in the changes in the East Block are the dominance
    those teams had in the lesser sports.  One thing the East Bloc did was
    train legions of folks in sports that were popular in smaller countries
    (like Team Handball, for example) or go after sports that weren't
    popular in the US (and some other western nations).
    
    The Soviet breakup may have some repurcussions - the Soviet hockey team
    was 0-2 in the Canada Cup - and looked a far cry from the dominant team
    they were.
    
    As for the Olympic movement allowing folks to compete "without a
    country" - they never have in the past.  During the African Boycotts, a
    sprinter from Gabon, and another from Guinea (in South America) tried,
    and were rejected.  During the US Boycott, a few US Athletes tried that
    route, and were rejected.  The IOC is too politically motivated to
    uphold the traditions they were created with.  (I believe the official
    Olympic Charter allows for folks to compete under the Olympic Flag -
    but that hasn't happened.)
    
    JD

    As A&W said in .4, this has been going on for the past few years in
    European soccer. Lots of players play in top pro leagues outside of the
    country and also play for the national team. The leagues in Italy and
    Spain offer salaries in the "American Star" (not superstar - yet)
    range, and many top E Europeans and other foreigners play in those 
    leagues. 
    
    The national team of West Germany won the World Cup last year, and now 
    with the merger, they have picked up some Eastern players. East Germany's 
    team was a middle-of-the road team, better than many, but not good enough 
    to qualify for the last 2 WCs. Only a couple of players from EG have made 
    the united German national team. 
    
    When the Bundisliga (W. German 1st division) absorbed the Eastern
    clubs, they accepted only the top 2 (One of them, Hasna Rostock, has
    American Paul Caliguri), while the 3-6 place teams played off against
    the bottom 4 Bundisliga teams for 4 spots in the new united league,
    with the rest going to the 2nd division. At the club level too, the 
    west is much stronger than Eastern Germany.
    
    The real interesting thing I wonder about is what will happen to the
    USSR team, who are currently very good. (They eliminated perennial
    powerhouse Italy from the Euro92 championships). Most of the best players 
    are Ukranian, so if they go that route, it seems Ukraine could be one 
    of the better teams in Europe. Currently there are 35 countries in what
    FIFA and UEFA (soccer's governing bodies) call "Europe," but this
    includes seperate teams for N. Ireland, Scotland, Wales & England, as
    well as minnows like the Faroe Islands, Malta, San Marino. Israel will
    join next year at the club level and at the national level for the
    qualifying rounds for the '94WC. It seems imminent that the Baltics
    will have their own teams soon as well, and who knows what will happen
    in Yugoslavia. This could be intersting, and will provide lots of new 
    opposition, at least in the qualifying rounds of National Team play.    
    
    Tom

    I have retitled this note to open it up for general discussion of
    the Olympics.  There is some related discussion in the Olympic
    Basketball topic and the Track and Field Topic.

    Have any of you sports junkies broken down and called that 800 number
    to check into that 3 channel, continuous broadcast of the 1992 Games? 
    If so, what's the scoop?  How much are they charging for it and what do
    you need to get it?

    I'm kind of waiting to get a poop sheet in my mail from my cable
    company.  Basically, you will need your cable company to agree to carry
    the programming, and some sort of a decoder for the portions that you
    pay to see.  If your cable company already offers pay-per-view, *you*
    will not need anything extra in your home.
    
    Either Business Week or Fortune (probably Business Week) ran an article
    on this.  NBC is in serious financial trouble over the broadcasting of
    the summer games.  They are having difficulty getting cable operators
    to free up three channels for the two weeks, and the pricing appears to
    be too high.  I believe that they are charging $125 for the three
    channels -- don't know if that's for the full two weeks or on a daily
    basis.  They've asked several of the lower viewership channels if they
    would be willing to preempt their regular programming with the Olympics
    coverage, and have been refused by most of them.  I believe that they
    only have one channel currently freed to carry the coverage, and NBC
    owns that channel.  The other factor working against them is that this
    is a pure discretionary spending item, and most of us are holding on to
    our wallets pretty tightly right now.
    
    Personally, I want to know what the schedule for the Games is, what is
    expected to be carried on NBC as free coverage, and what they plan to
    put on each of the three cable channels before I decide whether to buy. 
    I don't particularly like boxing, and would cheerfully skip that
    coverage for something else.  On the other hand, I'm not sure I want to
    turn into a complete couch potato for the two weeks of the Games, and
    getting out during events I don't care for is a good way to pace
    myself.
    
    During the Seoul games, I got a VCR and taped all the coverage that I
    didn't actually watch.  Some of those tapes are still unseen - I
    reached a saturation point.  This will be another factor when I decide
    whether or not to do this.  The final factor will be the anticipated
    quality of the competition.  It already appears that because of the
    political situations in Yugoslavia, the ex-Soviet Union, and Germany
    that some sports and events won't have the teams and/or training that
    led to spectacular performances in the past.  Basketball is the most
    obvious, but I have to believe that other events will have similar
    problems.
    
    The whole thing should be very interesting.
    
    A&W

    
    I used to like the Olympic coverage of years ago when everything was
    shown in a nice neat package in a two or three hour block in the
    evening.  Everything was taped, so there was no need to switch during
    an event that you just got interested in.  Plus the live coverage can
    be agonizingly slow at times.  As long as you didn't watch the early
    sports report on the news where some of the highlights would be spilled
    in advance, it was just like watching it live.
    
    I'll never forget the Lake Flaccid[sic] games when we beat the Ruskies.
    I thought I was watching the game live and it's one of the highlights
    of my sports viewing life.  And I was watching with people who already
    knew the score and they didn't have the heart to spoil my fun.
    
    Dickstah
    

 Well, I found an events schedule.  This is what they have to choose from in 
 bringing us coverage.  I don't know which teams will be playing when for the 
 hockey, and you may have to interpret some of what I wrote so I could get it 
 to fit in the available space.  But if you want it, here it is  :-)
 
 A&W
 
 
 
 	   Sat	    Sun	     Mon      Tues     Wed	Thurs	 Fri
 	   2/8	    2/9	     2/10     2/11     2/12	2/13	 2/14
 
 Ice	   3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games
 Hockey
 
 Figure	   	    Pairs    	      Pairs    		Men	 Ice
 Skating   	    Orignl   	      Freestl  		Orignl	 Dance
 	   
 Speed	   	    Women    Women    	       Women	Men	 Women
 Skating   	    3000m    500m     	       1500m	5000m	 1000m
 
 Alpine	   	    Men	     Men      Men      Women	Women	 
 Skiing	   	    Dwnhil   Cmbnd    Cmbnd    Cmbnd	Cmbnd
 
 Freestyle 	    Ballet   Ballet   	       Mogul	Mogul
 Skiing	   	    Heats    Finals   	       Heats	Finals
 
 Nordic	   	    Women    Men's    Nordic   Nordic	Men
 Skiing	   	    15 km    30 km    Cmbnd    Cmbnd	10 km
 
 	   	    Jumping  	      	       		Women
 	   	    Nrml     	      	       		5 km	 
 
 Biathlon  	    	     	      Women    Men		 Women
 	   	    	     	      7.5 km   10 km		 Relay
 
 Bobsled   
 
 Luge	   	    Men	     Men      Women    Women		 Men
 	   	    Single   Single   Single   Single		 Double
 
 
 
 	   Sat	    Sun	     Mon      Tues     Wed	Thurs	 Fri
 	   2/15	    2/16     2/17     2/18     2/19	2/20	 2/21
 
 Ice	   3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games  3 games
 Hockey
 
 Figure	   Men	    Ice	     Ice      	       Women		 Women
 Skating   Free	    Dance    Dance    	       Orignl		 Free
 
 Speed	   Men	    Men	     Women    Men      		Men
 Skating   500m	    1500m    5000m    1000m    		1000m
 
 	   	    	     	      	       		Men Shrt 
 	   	    	     	      	       		Trck
 
 Alpine	   Women    Men	     Women    Men Gt   Women	Women
 Skiing	   Dwnhil   Super G  Super G  Slalom   Gt Slalm	Slalom
 
 Freestyle Aerial   Aerial
 Skiing	   Heats    Finals
 
 Nordic	   Men	    Jumping  Women    Men      			 Women
 Skiing	   15 km    Large    Relay    Relay    			 30 km
 
 	   Women    
 	   10 km    
 
 Biathlon  	    Men	     	      	       Women	Men
 	   	    Relay    	      	       15 km	20 km	 
 
 Bobsled   2-man    2-man    	      	       			 4-man	       
 
 Luge
 
 
 
 	   Sat	    Sun	     
 	   2/22	    2/23
 
 Ice	   3 games  Final
 Hockey
 
 Figure	   Exhib-
 Skating   tion
 
 Speed	   Women
 Skating   Shrt Trk
 
 Alpine	   Men
 Skiing	   Slalom
 
 Nordic	   Men
 Skiing	   50 km
 
 Bobsled   4-man    
 
 

    RE: -1
    
    
    Thanks, but I'm refering to the Summer Olympics...
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Ricardo

    Ricardo -
    
    I realize that, but I don't know them yet either!
    
    My entry was strictly for informational purposes.  I hope that someone
    around here has an idea more precise than "summer" for when the games
    will begin in Barcelona.  :-)
    
    A&W

>    around here has an idea more precise than "summer" for when the games
>    will begin in Barcelona.  :-)
    
Sometime after June, and sometime before October.....


hth,
'Saw

 Well, the first weekend in Albertville is in the books.   Highlights so
 far ...
 
 Austria has yet another downhill champion.  Patrick Ortleib, with a "1" on
 his bib, went down the vicious Val D'Isere course first and that was it. 
 Nobody else could touch him.   The other favorites ... Heinzer, Kitt,
 Giradelli, Stock, and so on either fell or came up slower.   France's
 Franck Piccard took the silver, just 0.05 seconds behind.
 
 What a wild course !!!  That 180 hairpin turn made you wince just watching
 it.   And some of the camera angles made it look like they were skiiing
 straight down into hell.  Wild stuff ... but why do they shake cow bells
 at the skiers as they flash by ???
 
 Pairs figure skating did their short program thing.   The Russians (or
 should we say "Unified Teamers" ???) will be tough to beat.  Have to give
 Scott Hamilton some credit.  He really can explain the technical details
 in simple pedestrian terms ... and somebody must have whispered in his ear
 not to yell so loud.  Or maybe he's saving it for later.
 
 USA hockey team took a 6-3 win over the Italian team.  Also, Canada
 squeaked a 3-2 win over host France.
 
 The opening ceremonies were tres bizarre !!!   Whew, those bungee cord
 dancers were wild.  I kept hoping the big thing they were all attached to
 would start spinning and whip them all around in a big circle.   Neat
 stuff.  Nice to see some different cultures on American tube.
 
 By the end of these two weeks, I will want to watch anything *BUT* another
 CBS show.  If "The Eye" spends as much time showing actual Olympic events
 as they do their own commercials showing their own stars telling us
 they'll all be back in two weeks, it will be a miracle.   And I hope Coke
 has some more Katarina commercials ... I'm getting a little tired of this
 one.
 
 Tim McCarver and Paula Zahn aren't breaking any new ground in Olympic
 hosting, either.   They're both resorting to cutesie little word play
 banter ... "Bonnie Blair puts the bubbles in Champaign, Illinois !!!" 
 Groan.
 
 Bob Hunt

How about the two skiers from Senegal?  One finished in the top
50 for the downhill, and the other walked away from a pretty ugly
looking fall.

Mike

    Lithuania and Latvia make their first Winter Games appearance as
    independent nations since 1936, and CBS decides to cut for a commercial
    during the part of the Opening Ceremonies where the "Ls" enter the
    stadium...I'm bummed!  
    
    
    py

    Other than the rather horrible commercial cut when Lithuania and Latvia
    came in, CBS is doing a better job than I expected.  (And they did come
    back and show their entry during the coverage on Sunday, although I'm
    not sure when.)  That isn't saying much  :-).  I feel like I'm watching 
    2/3's "fluff" in order to get to the 1/3 competition.  Admittedly, part 
    of this is that I've watched every minute of their coverage so far, and 
    there really haven't been that many events yet.  I won't continue that.  
    Skip the weekday morning stuff - it's all promo for what will be coming 
    later.  For my money, they could have done a much better job covering 
    the women's 1500 meters cross-country and the speed skating yesterday.  
    However, they have a difficult job of trying to make this games 
    interesting to a wide audience who doesn't usually follow *any* sports, 
    let alone the relatively esoteric ones of the Winter Games.
    
    I've read about the men's downhill course in various ski magazines, and
    it really *is* nearly vertical in several spots.  I'm glad that the
    Senegalese skier was able to finish -- and the spot describing what
    he's going through in order to compete at all was very helpful in
    engaging me in his run.  I wish they'd shown the whole thing, like they
    did for the more competitive skiers!  The ski magazines have pointed
    out that devising a course that challenges the top skiers, while being
    easy enough that guys like the Senegal skier can also participate, is a
    real trick.  The general consensus was that the Val d'Isere course
    didn't do it - it was too technically demanding.  And then the guy from
    Senegal finishes anyway and proves them wrong.
    
    Personally I enjoy the figure skating.  It was interesting to hear
    Scott admit that the judges have pre-slotted the competitors based on
    their practice.  Must make the practices somewhat nerve-wracking! 
    (Also makes me wish we saw some of the "judged" practices.)  I don't
    always agree with the judges on who should place where, but that's part
    of what makes watching the competition interesting.  And I refuse to
    take it too seriously.
    
    So far, so good.  I'm having a good time.
    
    A&W

 
> Tim McCarver and Paula Zahn aren't breaking any new ground in Olympic
> hosting, either.   They're both resorting to cutesie little word play
> banter ... "Bonnie Blair puts the bubbles in Champaign, Illinois !!!" 
> Groan.
 
    Geez, tell me about it.  Those two sure are corny.  I figured it would 
    be great to watch the winter Olympics without Jim McKay, but now I'm 
    not so sure.  Nantz & Andrea Joyce aren't bad - they should be hosting
    it.  Where are they - in New York?
    
    RE: the downhillers from Senegal.
    One of the few good sidestories that CBS has done that I found
    interesting.  Ranks right up there with Eddie the Eagle and the
    Jamaican bobsled team.
    
    How about that interview with U.S. figure skater Christopher Bowman
    before the opening ceremonies Saturday night?  After watching that, I
    hope he doesn't win a medal, even if he is on the U.S. team.
    
    CBS should've shown some more of the downhill runs.  They only showed
    about 6 or 8 skiers - they should've shown at least twice that many.
    
    
    Joe 

 CBS did at least do something smart by putting Charles Kuralt on the team. 
 I hope he does the wrapup segment each night.   Eloquence.
 
 Jim McKay was the master of Olympics hosts.   He was heavily criticized
 while he was the ABC host but NBC Bryant Gumbel in Seoul '88 and now CBS
 McCarver-Zahn are showing us all what we're missing.
 
 I thought Billy Kidd did a very good job at the downhill.  Great technical
 explanations showing how and why each skier either gained or lost speed. 
 Amazing to realize that they've actually got this death-defying event down
 to a near-faultess science.   Kidd did a nice job and definitely enhanced
 the viewing.
 
 During the segment with Swiss skier Franz Heinzer, I kept expecting Julie
 Andrews to burst into song at any moment.   Gorgeous Swiss Alps scenery.
 
 Bob Hunt
 
 P.S.   This is really the first Olympics that the MicroHUNTS can watch and
 semi-understand.   And it's neat to watch them see all these "new" events
 for the firsted time.   I sat them down in front of the tube when the ski
 jumpers were on and said ... 
 
   "Okay, now listen up.  These guys are going to ski down this steep snowy
   ramp and then *FLING* themselves up in the air and really *FLY* for a
   couple of seconds."
 
 And I get these looks that are like ... "C'mon, daddy, is this another one
 of your jokes ???"   You shoulda seen the looks in their eyes as the next
 jumper went soaring.  Followed up quickly by ... "I'm never gonna do
 *THAT* !!!"

    Nantz and Joyce are also in Albertville.  I figured out last night that
    the Zahn/McGarver duo is doing their thing from 2 until 5 in the
    morning.  I'd probably be more than a little brain-dead then, too. 
    (But they displayed that woodenness during the pre-Olympics coverage
    that CBS did too, so I knew what to expect.)  For my money, Zahn is a
    little better than McGarver.  At least she's asking interesting
    questions when she isn't struggling with incredibyly inept cutesy
    scripts.  The talent out at the individual venues is much better than
    that at command central, and if I had to choose I'm not sure I wouldn't
    do it the same way CBS has.
    
    Katerina Witt as a commentator is a real treat.  I loved her comment
    that if she heard once more about Calla and Rocky being the "waitress
    and the truck driver" she'd go bananas!  She feels it detracts from
    their skating ability, which is what the story should be.  Yeah,
    Katerina!!
    
    A&W

 Something else that struck me during the downhill lasted night ... After
 AJ Kitt's disappointing run, CBS got a mike in front of him and Kitt was
 fairly calm about his poor showing.   But then he said ... "I'll be back
 in _two_ years."
 
 And I thought ... "Hey, that's right !!!  They're going to start
 staggering the Winter Games two years from now in 1994 in Lillehammer,
 Norway."
 
 With most Olympics, you get some sorta *final* sense about some of the
 athletes.  A lot of them point toward one shot and that's it.   But these
 Games might be a little different.  We might expect to see many of these
 same names again in Norway in '94 and perhaps their disappointment this
 time might not be so keen.
 
 Bob Hunt

    The downhill was awesome.  The difficulty of the course, the visual
    shots of the runs, and the technical commentary all made to a great
    presentation.
    
    On a different note, I ended up watching nearly all of the pairs
    skating.  My wife wanted to be a skater in a former life - so I had
    little choise.  I intentually kept my emotional involvement to a
    minimum, and ended up being entertained by my wife's commentary.  She
    disagreed with nearly every score by the judges, and got a little hot
    under the collar on some of them. (Of course, she kept making comments
    that every pair deserved a medal. :-) )
    
    One thing I am curious about - From the commentary, skaters appear to
    devote their entire carreer to either single or doubles competion, with
    very little cross-over.  With today's multi-sport, multi-event
    athelets, why this exception for skaters?  Is there a different skill
    set required?  My personal opinion was the jumping ability required for
    singles, and the strength (men) / flexibility (women) required for
    doubles.  My wife couldn't give my a reasonble answer.
    
    One frustating thing about the coverage is the lack of scheduling.  The
    schedule gives which events are being covered each day, but when each
    individual event is being covered during a particular broadcast is not
    given.  Sitting through a 4 hr broadcast for 1 event might become a
    problem.
    
    Scott

thank goodness for CBC (canadian Broadcasting Corp).. much less hype and hardly
any silly "Up close and personel" stuff that CBS continually hurls toward the
viewer.

"hey, Did you hear that Calla is a waitress and Rocky is a truck driver? Betcha
didn't know that did ya?"

From 11Am to 2PM yesterday CBS showed...2 minutes of x-c skiing, 3 speedskating
runs(2 american) ,3 ski jumping jumps(1 american). and 7 luge runs (2 american)

AJ Kitt didn't have a disappointing downhill run. He did well to finish in 9th
place. It's not his kind of course and he knew it. 

I wish Marc Giardelli hadn't wiped. He was smoking....

CBS has good skiing commentators. Billy Kidd, Andy Mill and others. All 
knowledgeable and none of them grate on my nerves.

Can't wait to see Tomba...

US Hockey team survived a bit of a scare yesterday. Trailing Italy 3-2 in a first
round match should serve as a wake up call.

What is the attraction of the opening ceremonies? If I want to see a parade I'll
go into a city on the 4th of July. And it's free. My wife and I were rolling on 
the floor with some of those outfits put together for the opening game. I'm 
talking about the people involved in the ceremonies not the athletes. Starting
with the walking blizzards and ending with the stiltmen wearing huge balloons
on their heads...quite a chuckle....

I think I'll tape most of CBS and watch on CBC instead...I feel sorry for you
people with CBS as your only viewing channell. 

Katerina still needs some work on her English but she was right on with her
quote about Calla and Rocky...

Metz

    Kristi Yamaguchi was participating in both singles and pairs skating up
    until a couple of years ago.  I think the amount of practice time makes
    trying to do both almost impossible.
    
    John

    
 > I guess you're right.  The pre-race hype however led one to believe that
 > Kitt had a real shot at some hardware.   As I recall, he won a World Cup
 > event on this very course last December
    
    Same site (Val D'Isere), completely different course.  Kitt won at
    the old course, which is straighter, faster, and less technically
    demanding...
    
    glenn
    

Kitt didn't have a chance after he got the 15 starting slot. That's what made 
Frank's run so amazing. The course got slower all day due to it being in direct
sunlight.

Other misc rambling....

The guy that won the downhill reminded me of Donk in Crocodile Dundee. 
It's too bad sideburns are coming back in style. It's the ugliest way for men
to wear facial hair....

Why do they award style points for ski jumping? Has the guy that jumped the 
farthest total ever not won the gold medal? Or do you have to look pretty flying
280-290 feet through the air?

That wasn't a real downhill. Far too technical and too much speed being scrubbed
off around turns instead of just letting the guys do what they do best....fly
down the snow at huge speeds. Even Ortlieb (who won) said, "I hope they never 
have another downhill here again. It's not a true downhill."


"Hey, did you hear that Cala is a waitress and Rocky owns a trucking company?"


Metz

AJ kitt, like Curtis Duncan, was hyped by CBS to try to keep those Americans who
only watch the Olympics to wave the R,W, & B something to stay tuned for.  

I miss being in Seattle and watching CBC - I'm sure the broadcast is much better
than CBS.  Yesterday was the "CBS Commericials and Talk Show - with a side
order of Athletics".  I do love the Cross Country coverage.  10 seconds of 
the race.  30 seconds of consternation of the faces of finished competitors.
10 seconds of elation.  Then the 5 seconds of "THis is how the Americans
finished..."

Its funny - one of the ideals of the Olympics is competition between the
brotherhood of man in a peaceful setting.  Yet we don't get to watch events that
the US is strong in.  I could see if CBS had limited time.  But they waste
the time with this up close crap, re-runs of stuff, and all that inane babble
from the myriad of hosts.  I'd love to know the  ratio of BS to actual 
athletics.

JD

    re .30:          
    
    >  -< No real chance for Kitt even though CBS wanted you to think so >-
    
    Bingo.  And I think that the men's downhill isn't the only event where
    the US media (not only CBS) was/is overly hyping and setting
    unrealistic expectations for US medal chances.  
    
    Calla and Rocky is a nice story, but were they really bonafide medal
    contenders against Unified Team and Canadian pairs with tons more
    experience and credentials at the international level?  Last night
    clearly answered that question.
                   
    I'm sure there'll be the inevitable "what happened to the US hockey
    team?" talk if they fall short...but this is a team that was sub-.500
    in their pre-Olympic exhibitions, a longshot at best to get ANY medal.
    
    And provided Midori Ito is healthy and avoids a catastrophe, you can
    bag the "1-2-3 sweep in the women's figure skating" talk I've seen in
    more than one place.
    
    Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for the folks in red, white, and blue
    as much as anyone.  But at the same time, let's be realistic...
    
    
    py                                                             

Well, I for one loved the piece on Bill Koch.


His training methods are very interesting, and you
can say what you want about older athletes like
Foreman and Nolan Ryan, but it just goes to show
you that you are never too old to TRY.

And I think that no one should ever be bashed for
trying....  Look at Bjorn Salming, the Swedish hockey
player who played for 17 years in the NHL and is 
now 40 and playing in his first Olympics....


The coverage does leave something to be desired but
I do like their human interest pieces.  I loved the
one on Georg Hackel, the German luge champ, and his
home in Bavaria....


'Saw

    How 'bout the Irish bobsled team's green sled?  Was about to adjust my
    set until my wife reminded me who was on the course...
    
                                        
    py

    I caught just enough during last night's get-together to tell you that
    the Koch piece last night had been run on Sunday afternoon.  So we're
    getting reruns of the fluff instead of the competition.  :-(  Anyone
    have a number for CBS?  Maybe if we all call we can get them to show us
    more of the competition.
    
    A&W

    The hard-core sports fan wants to see the competition - period - and
    doesn't care about the personality pieces.
    
    The Olympics attracts a lot of casual fans.  In order to keep the
    casual fans watching, there has to be a lot of fluff.
    
    Lasted night when I got home I watched the Beanpot and I'm sure I
    enjoyed it more than I'd have enjoyed the Olympics.
    
    John

> Pairs finals tonight.   The Russians will sweep gold and silver.   The
> Canadian pair will probably take the bronze.   The top Russian pair will
> skate to Liszt's "Dream Of Love" which was the Protopopov's signature
> theme.   Will Dick Button gush profusely ???   No doubt.
 
  I think the pair from Canada will get the silver.  And while Dick Button
  may gush profusely, at least we aren't required to hear it.

>    The Olympics attracts a lot of casual fans.  In order to keep the
>    casual fans watching, there has to be a lot of fluff.
    
    Kind of like Monday Night Football.
    
    RE: Irish bobsled team
    I missed this part, but the bobsled competition hasn't started
    yet, has it?  Was this just a piece on the Irish bobsled team?  Also, I
    haven't seen Jamaica's bobsled yet, but it was green in '88.
    
    
    Joe
                                    

    Just tried to hook up a TV here during lunch for the Olympic update.
    It consisted of a feature on tonight's pair competition and a feature
    on the 28-15 year old pair.  No news on events that happened today 
    like the biathlon and combined alpine event.  Figured they might
    show some of the biathlon since no one cares to watch it tonight.
    Even a "Here's who won" today might have been nice...
    
    For those who want to know about the the USA hockey game, keep
    reading...
    
    USA 2-0 final over Germany
    

    re .40:
    
    > RE: Irish bobsled team
    > I missed this part, but the bobsled competition hasn't started
    > yet, has it?  Was this just a piece on the Irish bobsled team?
    
    Joe, they were showing a practice run (in which the men from the
    Emerald Isle took a pretty nasty spill!).
    
    
    py

I have a question:

	Why, if the colors on the Italien flag are Red, White and
	Green, do all of their international sports teams where
	blue and white?

	In the world cup their soccer team did.  I cannot remember
	what colors their squad wore in the rugby world cup....

Just curious...


'Saw

    
    I got so bored with the coverage I switched to the Westminster Dog
    Show.  Tonight's competition features sporting breeds.  At least 
    when yer sporting dog dives into the icy water to retrieve a duck,
    you can reward him handsomly with a milkbone and a pat on the head,
    instead of a bouquet of roses and a Wheaties endorsement.
    
    Dickstah
    

 'Saw,
 
 The Italian national sports teams are often called "The Azzurri" or
 something like that.   The word is similar to our "azure", a shade of
 blue.
 
 I have no idea why they wear blue but they do look good in it.
 
 Bob Hunt

Yeah, I've heard that name before.

Although, actually, their hockey team probably should have had a 
Maple Leaf on it, with a little American flag on the shoulder 8^)


'Saw

Yeah, I noticed that and had a big laugh.

Delfino.  Didn't he do a short stint in the NHL?  Or am
I on drugs again.


Slasher, are they gonna have those seats fixed before the
Buffalo game?????

'Saw

    To my knowledge Delfino has never spent any time in the NHL.  After
    graduation from Lowell, he's been playing in Italy.
    
    John

    Bob,
    
    you wouldn't happen to be biased about the color blue ??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Hey,
    That baby blue, isn't that stolen property from Columbia U, Crazy Met??
    
    MikeL
    

    re: .52
    
    You got it. When the Tar Heels order uniforms the color
    they order is Columbia Blue.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    no the Violent Femmes had it first

    Columbia, North Carolina, Rhode Island and parts of Maine's uniforms
    are Columbia blue.
    
    Ninj

    I apologize for not really watching much of the games so far but I
    gotta ask a question
    
    
    
    Did somebody say Rocky is a truck driver?
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    Rocky Marval owns his own trucking company in New Egypt, NJ.  Calla
    Urbanski is a waitress.  
    
    Kev, I cain't tell if you were serious in axing the question or not.
    
    Ninj

    Thanks Ninj,
    
    I thought that the statement about Rocky and his truck driving
    could be the 1992 Phrase o' da mont, sort of like
    
    "McMahon's been traded"
    "send Hawk mail"
    
    etc., etc.
    
    get my drift?
    
    sorry for neglecting the ;^) thingie!
    
    Kev
    

re .58:


Boys and girls, please note well what a life on SPORTshrooms will do
to your brain.

Kev is a fine example of a person whose life is totally defined and
dependent on 'shrooms.


Just say NO!


'Saw

I haven't been in here too much lately (gotta work sometime), but I figger'd I'd
throw in a couple of cents on the Olympics.

The "Fluff pieces" I don't find so bad. After all, unless you're a die-hard fan,
you probably don't know about the Swiss skier from Davos who lives on a farm and
prefers to drive a tractor instead of a BMW, etc. A little personality isn't too
bad for the non-Americans, escpecially since CBS seems to only care about flag
waving. What I find grating are these things like the celebration from Bonnie
Blair's hometown, etc. Whaddaya expect -- They KNEW she won the medal about noon
or so, and here it is 11:30 and the people at the bah are a little less coherent
than they might normally be... Paula Zahn and Tim McCarver are definitely on the
lame side ("Gee, Tim, if Bill Koch can make a comeback, why not you?") but at
least they are not Frank and Kathie-Lee

From a production point of view, this seems pretty bad. After all, the evening
show is all events that happened earlier in the day, so they should be able to
have the best highlights ready to go. The delay when they were working on the 
mens' ski slope reminded me of the inane chatter of a baseball rain delay. They 
could have edited it better.

Another pet peeve is that they ONLY are interested in American ahtletes. Granted,
the casual viewer cares about this most, but puh-leeeze, give a little credit
whre it's due. Instead of gushing over "the first time a_american won a medal
since 1972 in this event" try giving a little credit to the people who ARE the
best in their field, even if they are furriners. If Americans aren't winning it
is because someone else is better.

Re Italy = Azurri. The Italians wear blue in all International sports - soccer,
basketall, hockey, RUGBY, etc. This has to do with blue being the official color
of a certain nobility house, going way back. This is similar to the Dutch 
wearing orange for William of Oranje, even though their flag is red white & blue.
The Germans wear green (dunno exactly why) as their secondary color (they wear
white w/ black, red & gold primarily) and the East Germans' color was Blue.

Tom   

    From what I have seen this coverage is less jingoistic than coverage in
    the past. They did a credible job covering the Russian figure skaters
    and some of the other sports.
    
    CBS paid lots of money to televise the game. I would guess that the
    Olympics drwas a crowd that on the whole is more casual about sports
    then say even the WS does. What appeals to many of these viewers is
    seeing how the US atheletes did. Can't really blame any of the networks 
    for giving the audience what they want to see; it makes good business
    sense.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

True, I have to give Scott Hamilton more credit now than for past skating 
events.   Someone has *definitely* whispered something in his ear.  He's 
much more globally attuned to this event and his "gushing" has been 
well-aimed and nicely muted.   

The Russian pairs are the best in the world and Hamilton wasted no time 
saying so.   Remains to be seen if he'll do the same thing when the singles 
are up as the 'Mericans have strong hopefuls in both genders.

Is Dick Button not on the CBS crew ???   Haven't heard 'Boo!' from him so 
maybe he ain't in Alvertville ???

The top two Russian pairs were exquisite.   As much as I dislike the way 
the "sport" is conducted, those two pairs I could watch and admire.  
Classy, elegant, and at the highest apex of their "game".   

Interesting side note: The old Russian skating organization promised a new 
house to the top pair.   Helps to keep things in proper perspective when 
you realize these athletes don't have the best of conditions back home.  

Also, although I don't miss the "Soviet Union" as we grew up with it, I do 
miss their national anthem at the Games.   Pretty song.  I hope they won't 
be the "Unified Team" forever ... some sense of nationality is important.  
It's been way overdone in past Games but it does have some small place.

Bob Hunt

    Button is with ABC. He is a good commentator, but something about
    Button always grates on my nerves. Hamilton is much easier to listen
    to. The woman commentator (Tracy Wilson?) is far better than Peggy
    Fleming in ABC.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    So far I think the coverage and the general atmosphere around the games
    is somewhat lame. There seems to be no spontanaity (sp), even the
    skating finals seemed somewhat anticlimatic. The one thing I miss is
    the old Olympic theme song, that song always brought a rush to the
    viewer, by editing in the highlights. The music now has no power. I
    feel like I'm watching something that has been choreographed. Who are
    the announcers for the Luge/Bobsled, the analyst adds quite a bit of
    thrill and excitement to it.
    
    I hope it gets better.
    
    MM

    I finnally got to see some of the Olympics last night. I believe that
    CBS and the coverage as a whole rots. Period. Those two geeks at the
    anchor desk are so montone and boring it's pathetic. 
    
    In 1.5 hours I saw 1.5 Luge runs, A whole mess of figure skating, I
    thought Scott Hamilton did a pretty good job, even when a team did an
    excellent jump and he got so excited I thought He peed himself. At
    least he makes it interesting, better than ol dick buttons.
    
    
    Also some womens speed skating and a boatload of commercials. I was
    totally pissed. 
    
    I think Katrina Witt said it best about the Russian skaters if they
    were to win the gold (and they did) that it will be a strange feeling 
    not seeing your countries flag or anthem played. (I also like the old
    CCCP anthem, Along with the Canadian anthem). You could'nt help but
    feel for them.  As much as I don't really like figure skating, I do
    appreciate the moves and talent of these type of skaters.(I also skate
    quite abit).
    
    I hope to see not just American competitors, but Whoever is the best
    for that event. This is where I feel we are being robbed by CBS,
    because they feel that they know what Joe viewer wants, so they
    deliver sliced up selected coverage. Too bad really.
    
      
    The winter Olympics  coverage could really be the balls, but so far
    what I have seen I'm not impressed.
    
    -TH
     

>    Who are
>    the announcers for the Luge/Bobsled, the analyst adds quite a bit of
>    thrill and excitement to it.
    
    Don't know who the analyst is (probably a former bobsledder or luger)
    but the "play-by-play" guy is Sean McDonough, who does college football for
    ESPN.  Probably does other sports on ESPN also.
 
    Paula Zahn and Tim McCarver act like they're covering the Tournament of
    Roses Parade.
    
    
    Joe

    I wonder why the Russians don't just use the old (pre-1917) Russian
    flag and anthem.  

>    I wonder why the Russians don't just use the old (pre-1917) Russian
>    flag and anthem.  
    
    Because the team is not Russian.
    It's Russian, Ukranian, Armenian, Georgian...  They'd have to have
    a different anthem for different team members.  Doesn't make sense if
    they are a TEAM.
    
    I felt for the "Unified Team" members who had to listen to the Olympic
    Song instead of their anthem.  I would have a hollow feeling if I was
    standing on that platform.
    

    And another thing, were Wayne Greatski and Bonnie Blair seperated at
    birth ? Just curious.
    
    

re .69, .70
Pre-1917 Russia was the Russian Empire, which was like many empires of that time
period - lots of land, many diffeent peoples, ruthless, autocratic control from
a far flung capitol half a world away. Charade or not, it would hardly be in the
spirit of the "Unified Team" of the "Commonwealth of Independent States" to play 
an anthem of Czarist Russia. The equivalent would be to play "God Save the 
Queen" for India, Kenya, Nigeria or Canada. I agree, though, it IS a great song.

Tom 

    It is likely that by 1994, if not sooner, there will be teams from
    Russia, Ukraine, etc.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    And another thing, were Wayne Greatski and Bonnie Blair seperated at
>    birth ? Just curious.
    
    naw, Bonnie's legs are bigger!

    Final results from freestyle skiing (following the form feed so those
    who'd rather be "kept in suspense" until tonight can go to the next
    note now)...
    
                                                          
    
    Women	Gold - Donna Weinbrecht, US
    		Silver - Elizaveta Kojevnikova, Unified Team	
                Bronze - Steine Hattestad, Norway
    
    Men		Two French skiers finished 1-2
    		American Nelson Carmichael got the bronze
    
    
    Also, the Norwegian who won the men's 30K cross-country skiing earlier
    this week has added another gold in the 10K (didn't catch who got the
    silver and bronze).
    
    
    py

    Last night ch38 had Animal House at 8PM.
    Tuesday night Terminator
    
    Nice to have alternative programming. Oh yeah also, ESPN has had
    college basketball, and NBC has Cheers tonight.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       This is sweeps month. There's good movies all over the place.
                                     Denny

    Re Russia and pre-1917 anthem.  Bob Hunt hit the nail on the haid. 
    Russia pre-Lenin wasn't a real great place to live.  Overthrowing the
    Czar wasn't a mere coup - but a revolt by the people (gee, where have I
    heard that before...)   \
    
    
    I"d have thought there would be some sort of nationalistic tune they
    could play - something from Tchavosky (spelling bites, I know) or maybe
    that song they do that Cossack dance to ;-)
    
    
    Re:  Coverage.
    
    It bites.  I've never found myself so disinterested in coverage in my
    life.  I've been switching back and forth all over the place.  Tonight,
    now that I"m back in the Northwest, I'll try the CBUT coverage out of
    Canada.  It can't be worse.
    
    Paula Zahn is a waste of skin.  
    
    JD

>    Re Russia and pre-1917 anthem.  Bob Hunt hit the nail on the haid. 
>    Russia pre-Lenin wasn't a real great place to live.  Overthrowing the
>    Czar wasn't a mere coup - but a revolt by the people (gee, where have I
>    heard that before...)   \


I think the tune was a hymn of some sort, that became their anthem.

Unless I'm mistaken, Tchaikovsky (spelling doesn't bite 8^)) used it
in the 1812 Overture as it opened.

But, like others have said, it was/is a Russian hymn, and the Unified
Team is composed of other republics besides Russia...



One thing I love:  The German speed skating uniforms...


'Saw

    
    I'm telling ya one thang - Bonnie Blair has the biggest thighs I've
    ever seen.  Makes Earl Campbell look like he's walking on stilts.
    
    SImply Amazing.
    
    Is freestyle skiing still necessary.
    
    And I think that figure skating, swimming, gymnastics and the downhill
    would be more interesting if the athletes competed nude.
    
    JD

    > I'm telling ya one thang - Bonnie Blair has the biggest thighs I've
    > ever seen.
    
    Joe Martel, the morning host on 98.5 in Boston had a question this week
    on his show. According to a poll what physical feature do men dislike
    most aboput a woman. The answer - big thighs.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re: .79
    
    Just play something from the Nutcracker Suite.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    	RE: Scott Hamilton
    
    	He did a nice piece last night on jumps. He talked about the
    	entry and exit and edges. More to come, I believe.
    
    	He also showed Kurt Browning doing a quad jump.
    
    	Scott

US hockey results (after the 1st period)....




USA - 1	(Scott Young goal)
Finland - 0

    keep those hockey results coming.
    
    how does the medal round work, who gets in?
    
    who else is in the US's group.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

US hockey results (after the 2nd period)....




USA - 2	
Finland - 1

 I've seen Hamilton do that slo-mo piece on the different jumps before. 
 It's well done and it reinforces something I said before ... he can and
 does translate skate-speak into pedestrian terms for us mere dryfoots.
 
 And he's not *YELLING* for the American skaters so he gets good marks all
 around.   However, he does lose three-tenths of an "artistic impression"
 point for that sappy fireside chat thing he did with Kurt Browning a
 coupla nights ago.   "Are you nervous, Kurt ???   Yeah, I was too."
 
 And I go rollward everytime I hear Christopher Bowman called "The Bad Boy
 Of Skating".   Yeah, he be real bad.  Not!
 
 Bob Hunt

    
>    how does the medal round work, who gets in?
     
    8 teams get in the medal round (4 from each group).  All I've heard is
    that it is single-elimination, but don't know the details.
    
>    who else is in the US's group.
    
    Finland, Sweden, Italy, Germany, and Poland.
    USA, Finland, and Sweden are 2-0 and Italy, Germany, and Poland are 0-2
    going into today's games. 
    
    
    Joe

>>    who else is in the US's group.
    
>    Finland, Sweden, Italy, Germany, and Poland.
>    USA, Finland, and Sweden are 2-0 and Italy, Germany, and Poland are 0-2
>    going into today's games. 
    
And the groups intermingle once the medal round starts, FYI.

Scott

    I was home sick yesterday, and watched TNT's coverage.  If you are
    really interested in the games, program your VCR and watch what they
    have. Much, much better than CBS.  (I've been taping their stuff all
    along, and watched both Tuesday and Wednesday coverage yesterday.) 
    They showed *all* of the US/Germany hockey game Tuesday, and all of the
    Chezc/Unified Team hockey game yesterday.  Tuesday they showed early
    competitors in the figure skating, yesterday they showed the "big
    names" that CBS showed the day before.  Plus they included much more
    coverage of the speed skating (4 or 5 of the 1500m pairs) and luge. 
    Included the women's downhill segment of the Alpine combined, including
    a number of spectacular crashes of skiers expected to do well, the
    crash of the front-runner (a non-top 15 skier sent down to pack down
    the course).
    
    On the hockey tournament (again, thanks to TNT).  The top 4 teams in
    each group go to the "medal round".  The number 1 team in group A plays
    the number 4 team in group B, and vice versa.  2 and 3 play each other,
    again across groups.  The medal round is single elimination - winner of
    the 1-4 game plays the winner of the 2-3 game.  Losers of the second
    game play for the bronze, winners of the second game play for the gold
    and silver.
    
    I think CBS is improving slightly, but the absence of figure skating to
    cover last night may have been the difference.
    
    A&W

    Does anyone have a final on the Italy-Poland hockey game played earlier
    today?   (It was 3-0 Italy when I left for work.)
    
    
    py

US hockey update...



US - 3
Fins - 1

Aproaching the end of the 3rd...

    Finland 1 with 8 minutes left in the 3rd period..
    
    REK
    
    Oh yeah usa had 4 goals.....

    Didn't Bonnie Blair race in the 1500 yesterday?  I zonked out after the
    1st couple races...
    
    Funny how ::sports and it's noters pop into the mind at certain times. 
    Watching that piece on Bowman, when they spoke with one of his coaches,
    I thought of Bob Hunt and one his favorite SNL skits: "...and point,
    and point..."  I was u_know_what-ward! :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    re .95:
    
    Bonnie Blair was 21st in the 1500 yesterday.
    
    
    py

Anyone have the final of the hockey game???

Scott

 Hawk,
 
 Bonnie Blair came in around 20th in the 1500.  It ain't a sprint so it's
 not her race.   If she's too gassed for the 1000 on Friday then you almost
 have to question why she entered it.  Mary Doctor finished much higher
 than she did.
 
 {It also makes you appreciate Heiden's *5* golds in Lake Placid.   The man
 blew them all away in every race at every distance.   Sprints, middles,
 and long-distances, too.   Whew.}
 
 I didn't think about the SNL "Synchro" skit when I saw the Bowman piece
 lasted night but, you're 100% right, it's way too easy to laugh.   This
 "Bad Boy Of Skating" image cracks me up.   He wouldn't last a minute on a
 rugby pitch or a downhill slope.   Maybe they oughta strap him on a luge
 and see how "bad" he is.
 
 Bob Hunt

He's a Nancy.....8^)

    Blair didn't want to enter the 1500, he coach "made" her.  Once after
    some point in the race when it was clear she wasn't a medalist she
    coasted to the end to rest up for the 1000,.
    
    Any word on the 5000k Speedskating event?
    

To answer my own question, US hockey final....




USA - 4
Fins - 1

This should make the USA (3-0) a lock for the medal round since Canada (3-0) 
and the Czechs (3-0) have both clinched berths in the medal round from Group B 
according to the Globe.  A not-so-good Poland team (whose stated Olympic goal 
is to not let the opposition get into double figures in any one game) and a 
tough Sweden team remain for the USA before the medal round.  Sweden (2-0) 
plays Germany (0-2) today at 2:15pm EST.

Scott

    Bob -
    
    What was the name of the guy from Holland who was the speed skating
    stud before Heiden?  Ard Schenk?  Didn't he win all the events too?  He
    was huge, as I recall.
    
    jd
    

    re .102:
    
    Schenk is the guy you're thinking of JD, but I think his specialty was
    the longer distances...he might have taken the 1500/5000/10000 in one
    Olympiad, but I don't think he swept all five races.
    
    
    py

    
    I believe Scott Young's mom works for DEC here in Marlboro.
    
    Are you out there Mrs. Young?
    

    He's also from *MY* hometown!

He was always a favorite of mine when he played for the Whalers.

They treated the kid like shit, and that was the start of the floodgates
of Whalers talent passing out of Hartford.

His last season was tough with Hartford, but then who ever had a good
season playing for Ricky Rat...


'Saw

    
    >What was the name of the guy from Holland who was the speed skating
    >stud before Heiden?  Ard Schenk?  Didn't he win all the events too?  He
    >was huge, as I recall.
    >
    >jd
    
    His name was Hans Brinker  ;-)
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn
    

    Final results from men's luge doubles & women's biathlon relay, and an
    update on Unified Team vs. France hockey, follow the formfeed...
     
    
    Women's Biathlon Relay 	Gold	France
    				Silver	Germany
    				Bronze  Unified Team
    
    
    Men's Luge Doubles		German teams finished 1-2
    			        The Hubers from Italy won the bronze
    				(A US team was sixth)
    
    
    Unified Team is winning easily against France, last update I had was
    7-0 in the second period.
    
    
    py

    RE:  Scott Young's Mom.
    
         She works here in MR03.  Don't expect to see her entering any
    notes about the Olympics, she's over there enjoying the sights
    firsthand.
    
    Chuck

Good for her. 


It'd be great stuff if she could enter a trip report when she gets
back.  If you know her, could you pass on the suggestion?  I'd even
make sure the conference was all clean and spruced up if she was gonna....

8^)

'Saw

    getting back to heiden, what he did was like a track dude winning the
    100,200,400,800,and mile. Amazing when you think about it.

    FrankWay,
    
    *YOU* are gonna clean this place up in case Mrs. Young comes to
    visit?????
    
    Who ya kiddin dude?  Remember, I seen your Mountain Man residence,
    the place where you *LIVE*!!!!!!
    
    Obviously snow and cold don't affect 'schrooms!!!!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    	RE: Heiden's accomplishments
    
    	Some cable station has been showing some past summer Olympics.
    
    	In one, they showed a runner (from Africa, I believe) who ran/
    	the 5K, 10K, and then decided to run the marathon. Although
    	he had never run a marathon, he won.
    
    	Scott

    	RE: Chis Bowman
    
    	I think the bad boy title was stuck on him because most skaters
    	seem to be pleasant and fairly well adjusted. Bowman, althoug
    	pleasant, does not seem well adjusted. Toller Cranston confirmed
    	that (as if we needed confirmation) during a CBS spot the other
    	night.
    
    	Scott

    First, I watched the Canadien broadcast for most of last night (missed
    some cuz I had to go out and sing German Drinking Songs at a pub
    downtown) - and I enjoyed it a zillion times over the CBS coverage.
    
    What human interest stuff they showed was short and to the point.  They
    showed highlights of everything - and made no phoney attempt to act
    like it was 'live'.    They had pretty darn good coverage of the cross
    country race - and didn't focus on Canadien athletes - instead showing
    the main competitors and telling thier story.  They were happy - and
    told folks so - when a Canadien finished 25th.  They made no phoney
    illusions that they had a chance to win a medal (which CBS will do...)
    and instead focused on how it was a good finish for the athlete.  
    
    They did the same with speed skating.   They also showed highlights of
    the Mogul competition - and sorry folks - but that is a sheer crap
    event.   Totall ca-ca.  Bogus.   Give me a break.
    
    I'll concentrate on their coverage from now on.  Plus, I love the
    Canadien accent.  Nothing seems contrived - no one seems to be forcing
    themselves on you - which the CBS announcers will do.  And the home
    base has one guy - and he's simply an emcee - not a Zahn/McCarver talk
    show host/hostess duo.   He sets up what will be coming next - and
    that's it.   Love it.
    
    RE:: Olympic distance runner -
    
    The great Lasse Viren, who won the 5000/1000 meter double in 72, and
    repeated that feat in 76, ran the marathon in 76 - his first - and
    finished 5th.
    
    Not sure which African athlete you are alluding too - perhaps Mamo
    Walde of Ethiopia?   Abebe Bikila won back to back marathons - but I
    don't recall him running in the shorter races - though he might have.
    
    RE:: Heiden -  actually in Track and Field terms, it would be like
    winning the 400 m, 800 m, 1500, 5000 and 10000.   No small feat, fer
    sure - though at least speed skaters don't have to run qualifying
    rounds.
    
    
    JD

    Didn't catch anything last night other than the half-hour wrap-up at
    11:30.  What was great was the 3 minute wrap-up of the wrap-up at the
    end...
    
    Anyone else notice the background music during what people are labeling
    as "fluff" by CBS?  One tune that grabbed my attention, among others,
    was early '70s Jethro Tull.  If I remember correctly, it was during a
    downhill "fluff" piece, which to me, made it that much more interesting
    and enjoyable.  Another thing to be thankful for is that you don't hear
    any RAP at all.  Think about it.
    
    Did you see that Norwegian(?) party bus?  I wanna party with them
    people!
    
    Hawk
    

    Hawk -
    
    The CBC showed lots of Norwegians - main, they are having quite the
    time.  They were singing and rocking at both the x-c and speed skating
    venues.  Gotta love it!
    
    Skol brother!
    
    JD
    
    

    
    Re:  Abebe Bikila
    
    Affectionately known as "Attababy Bikini" at the time.
    

    That's it.  After that last one, I'm turning in my nomination for '92
    NOTY right now.  Dickstah, you're too much!
    
    Hawk
    

RE: songs

The 'other' Canadien figure skater did his short program to an orchastral 
Stairway to Heaven last night - gotta respect that!

And I happen to like the Mogal comp and to call it 'crap' indicates to me a 
certain ignorance to what it takes to ski like that.  It may not be for 
everybody, but it certainly isn't 'crap'.  Sorry, just MHO.

Scott

>        -< I guess I picked the wrong week to quit smoking dope... :-) >-

    speaking of the figure skating:
    
    1.	JD or anyone else who saw the Canadian network coverage -- what did
    they have to say about Kurt Browning's original program performance
    last night?  From what Kurt said in his interview with Scott Hamilton
    on CBS the other night, it seemed like there was a HUGE amount of
    pressure/expectations on him leading up to the Olympics.
    
    2.  Is it a written rule, or just tradition, that figure skaters skate
    solely to instrumental (not vocal) music?
    
    
    py

    Somehow, I've got to believe that it's a rule that you skate to
    instrumental music only.  That's 'cause in the exhibition skate that
    the winners put on the last day of the games, they will use vocals. 
    Don't know for sure though.
    
    I've been trying to learn to ski moguls for, quite literally, years
    now.  It's interesting to me that they have combined a speed element
    with the "judged" element in that competition.  I enjoyed seeing
    another flavor of downhill skiing, besides pure speed on a smooth
    course.  After all, normal alpine conditions aren't what most of us
    encounter when we head out for the slopes.  And I've skied runs that
    look like the mogul course :-) [poorly].  So it's fun to see what
    really, really good skiers can do with that stuff.
    
    A&W

    
    Keep practicing A&W, and maybe you'll land one of those rich moguls
    you meet on the slopes.
    
    Dickstah
    

> And I happen to like the Mogal comp and to call it 'crap' indicates to me a 
> certain ignorance to what it takes to ski like that.  It may not be for 
> everybody, but it certainly isn't 'crap'.  Sorry, just MHO.
    
    I have no idea what the degree of difficulty in this event is, but when
    a skier would seemingly interrupt a timed run to throw her arms and
    legs out in a "spread eagle" and receive 25% of her score based on such 
    a maneuver, it seemed a bit contrived to me ("wow, she really nailed 
    that!").  Not esthetically pleasing at all, in my opinion, and this is
    from someone who actually appreciates figure skating and the
    difficulties involved in many of the jumps....
    
    glenn
    

    My "hunka hunka burining love" (it is Valentines Day) called in with 
    a report...
    
    
    Bonnie Blair won the Gold in the 1000 meter.

It don't bother me none if ya don't like it for whatever reason, but calling it 
'crap' and such just seems to mock the hard work and skill required to compete 
at the Olympic level (although I'd bet that wasn't your intent).  And time is 
only 25% as well (in fact the gold medal winner was actually slower down the 
course then the American bronze medal winner I believe).

One of the slow-mo replays of the men showed one guy get his legs up actually 
beyond parallel to the ground a with several meters of air between him and the 
rather bumpy landing.  Wow.

I guess one of the reasons I like it is because it is an event that any good 
bump skier can try to emulate, sort of like hockey players emulating their 
favorite players.  Casual access to a challenging slalom/GS/super-G/downhill
race course is pretty rare so unless you are a racer, you don't get a chance to 
try it.

But like I said, it's not for everybody.

Scott

    Hey it was my opinion.  Having known someone who made the Olympics, I
    know what type of work it involved.  However, the mogul thing was to
    me, exactly what I said it was.   Compared to the real skiing events
    like the downhill and the slalom, it seems contrived and almost petty.
    
    Hey, it takes a lot of skill to do synchronized swimming too, but
    compared to the other swimming events, I consider that the 'c' word.
    
    I'm sure its tough, but as Glenn pointed out, the little spread eagles
    and hand waving sure don't add to the event at all.  What next, dogs
    catching frisbees?
    
    re Paul Y:
    
    I missed the skating to go and sing the German drinking songs.  "Ja
    
    Ja   JAAAAA   JA"
    
    JD

    Gotta agree that the Mogul skiing is not crap, take a trip to any mtn
    resort and you'll find the best skiers on the mogul trails. It's probably
    much more harsher on the body than the slalom courses. One thing here
    is that the moguls don't move, the slolom poles are actually break away
    poles where the skiers go thru them with there arms. Go back a few
    years and the slalom gates where stationary. The skiers actually had 
    to go around them not thru them. Plus the crowd really got into tis 
    event too. 
    
    
    To each their own.
    
    MM

I'm impressed always with the ability of bump skiers, I myself have skied bumps 
most of my life and raced NASTAR and Corporate Cup gate skiing. There is no 
comparision. You can take a great GS skier and put them on top of a bump run and 
they have to re-learn all the skills of skiing. The Moguls involve the fearless 
nature of downhill and the gate-crashing style of Slalom. 

The only thing most people could relate this to is running down a mountain 
through the trees with a large critter on your tail.

Jeff

    Hey JD... Gotta question for you...
    
    What's the difference between a 100 meter dash and a 100 meter hurdles?
    
    REK
    
    PS about the same between a downhill and a mogul race..

    Germany-Poland hockey update follows the form feed:
    
    
    
    Germany leading Poland 1-0 near the end of the first period.  A German
    win puts them into the medal round.
                           
    
    py

    I'd rather watch dogs catching frisbees over ice dancing anyday...
    

Sorry to be the proverbial wet blanket, but this just had me thinking. After the
USA hockey team got off to a 4-0 start, the usual euphoria seems to be setting 
in. Comparisons are being made to the '60 and '80 gold medal teams and the US 
team that won the silver at Innsbruck in '76. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to 
see them go as far as they can, but is it realistic to expect a gold? I get the 
sneaking suspicion that the buildup will be too much, and people will be 
dissapointed if they win "only" a bronze.

After the top teams (Canada, Cze. CIS, Sweden, US, Finland and maybe Germany), 
there is a huge dropoff in talent. The US beat a good Finnish team, and Germany
was the team that knocked thm out in '88, so this edition is clearly better than 
the US team at Clagary. Other than that, they've beaten the teams they SHOULD 
beat, so it's a little hard to say if they are for real or not. After all, 
Poland, whose main goal was to avoid losing by double figures, played a real 
tough game against the US and only lost 3-0, no doubt the highlight of their 
tournament.

Today the US plays Sweden, the best team they've played so far. If they win or 
tie, they win the group and play the 4th place finisher in the other group, 
France, where they shouldn't have a problem. In the final 4 they'l play a top 
team like Canada or the "Unified Team" 

If they lose (which IS a genuine possibility), it could just as easily be over.
They would play Czechoslovakia in the next game. The Czechs might not be quite 
the team they were when they won the World Championship a few years back, but 
they are certainly a formidable opponent.

We'll see today....

    There's no question that American TV is by far the biggest influence on
    scheduling in the Olympics which is why things have gone the way they
    have:
    
    1.  USA playing all its easiest foes first and the pool the USA's not
    in being tougher than the one it's in.
    
    2.  The two biggest ratings draws, men's and women's individual figure
    skating, being scheduled for showing on Saturday night during prime
    time.
    
    Doubtless there are others.  Doubtless it will be worse at Barcelona in
    the summer.
    
    While I'm not much of a figure skating fan, I have to be happy for Paul
    Wylie winning the silver medal.  Here's someone who didn't make the
    world championship team and who'd never done all that well in world
    competition.  He's quiet and doesn't act like an idiot like Christopher
    Bowman does, and he goes out and skates the performances of his life
    when it really counts.  It's a great way for him to cap his career.
    
    Ice dancing is not a sport.  At least in pairs, you have the element of
    D.T., ie, that controversy that sprung up last summer for those of you
    who remember what I mean (since it's not politically correct to call it
    what it is).
    
    John

    re .137:
    
    > While I'm not much of a figure skating fan, I have to be happy for Paul
    > Wylie winning the silver medal.  Here's someone who didn't make the
    > cworld championship team and who'd never done all that well in world
    > competition.  He's quiet and doesn't act like an idiot like Christopher
    > Bowman does, and he goes out and skates the performances of his life
    > when it really counts.  It's a great way for him to cap his career.
    
    My sentiments exactly!  
    
    
    Re the US hockey team's chances, let's see how the game with Sweden
    goes...I think how they perform today will be a good barometer of their
    medal chances.
                
    
    py

    A couple back.
    Actually I'd be delighted with a bronze  medal for the US team.
    From what I've seen and read the cream of the crop are Sweden,
    Canada, Unified team( what a game vs. Canada yesterday),with
    the Czechs,US and Finland a bit behind.
    We can always hope for a gold, and any medal, IMO would be French
    pastry.
    
    MikeL
    

    For all uf us that have to suffer through the day at work, could
    somebody please keep us upto date on the U.S.-Sweden hockey game when
    it starts at 2:15. 
    thanks
    ED who is stuck in this hell hole until 4:30
    

                                                          
    > 1.  USA playing all its easiest foes first and the pool the USA's not
    > in being tougher than the one it's in.
    
    Is this a fact?  Meaning there was no draw or other objective seeding
    procedure and the Olympic Committee rigged the divisions so that the
    US would face easier competition?
    
    > 2.  The two biggest ratings draws, men's and women's individual figure
    > skating, being scheduled for showing on Saturday night during prime
    > time.
    
    There's no question that in the US, figure skating is the largest TV
    ratings draw.  However, I don't see a problem with scheduling these
    events on a Saturday when the most people can see them (around the
    world as well as the US).  It's not like the events were scheduled for 
    2-5 AM in Albertville so that they could be seen live in the US in 
    prime time (they're taped).  How has US television in any way distorted 
    the figure skating competition?  Am I missing something here?   
    
    
    On another note, I've got to say that I never imagined that there could 
    be so many "headcases" (for lack of a better term) involved in amateur
    winter athletics as have been profiled by CBS in their personal
    segments from Albertville.  Maybe we really are unjustifiably biased 
    against American professional athletes from our major money sports, in 
    light of this parade of "amateurs" that have been presented in such an 
    unflattering light.  All last week I was wondering what had happened to 
    the greatest ski jumper of all time, Matti Nykaenen of Finland, in the 
    four short years since his domination of the games in Calgary.  Bang, a 
    CBS expose on Nykaenen's drunken exploits and rock-and-roll lifestyle.  
    The night before, the story of an Austrian skier who didn't like the way 
    the team was being run so she married a German (whom she has since 
    separated from), joined their team and is living and training as she 
    pleases.  Christopher Bowman, Tonya Harding, Alberto Tomba.... I'm sure 
    there are even more as I haven't even followed the coverage that closely.
    
    I understand that most of these profiles are the exception (and I've 
    never been under any illusions about the Olympian amateur ideal anyway), 
    but I did find it interesting that for all the crap that US athletes 
    take while operating under a microscope that apparently it's not a
    distinctly American phenomemenon.  In both cases, I kind of wish that,
    excepting extraordinary circumstances (like something like the Tyson
    trial), the media would stick to the events themselves...
    
    glenn
        

 Okay, who saw the opening Olympics skit on SNL ???   Absolutely totally
 bodaciously rollward.
 
 {Oh!} There's goes any {Oh!} any chance of {Oh!} finishing in the {Oh!}
 top ten {Oh!} ...  I laughed the hardest when the "skater" slowly slid on
 his stomach into the hockey boards.   Whatta riot.   Made my night.
 
 Dana Carvey might just be the best male impressionist around today.  He
 "nailed" his Scott Hamilton impression.   Hilarious.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Glenn, I'm probably being cynical about the influence of American TV on
    the Olympic scheduling, but I think it's there.
    
    I found athletes from individual sports (gymnastics, track) to be far
    flakier as a whole than the athletes from team sports, and the more
    team oriented the sport (football, hockey, lacrosse) the more normal
    still.  Don't know why and it's certainly an unscientific sample, but
    it leads to more of these individual soap operas.  The media plays it
    all up because it's good copy and it's designed to attract the casual
    fan who plays such a big part in making the Olympics ratings high.  If
    it was up to most of us, we would want to watch strict sports with no
    information pieces about these athletes.
    
    Don't forget US Speed Skater Mary Docter when it comes to the soap
    operas too.  After the 1984 Olympics, she began a long battle with
    alcohol and drug addiction, got straight long enough to compete in
    Calgary and kicked it all last year.
    
    John

 > Dana Carvey might just be the best male impressionist around today.  He
 > "nailed" his Scott Hamilton impression.   Hilarious.
    
    Carvey's an absolute pistol.  How long could he have been subjected to
    Scott Hamilton?  The guy can pick up on mannerisms and inflections
    in a matter of days and have the impression dowm flat...
    
    I read where Carvey will be leaving the show in November, right after
    the election.  That's too bad; I think it's a mistake.  The record of
    ex-SNLers in TV and movies is not good.  Lotta bad flicks, mostly.
    
    glenn
    

    Even better. Last night on the wrapup show Pat O'Brien had Scott
    Hamilton as a guest. They then showed the SNL skit with a picture of
    Hamilton in the corner watching and reacting. 
    
    Some questions on the hockey:
    
    1) Canada lost to the Unified team 5-4. They both ended up with 4-1
    records. However the Unified team had to win by 3 goals or more to get
    the #1 seed in Group B. Why??
    
    2) In the medal round what happens if there is a tie, OT? tie breaker?
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Had a chance to see Jim Nantz/Andrea Joyce anchoring the afternoon
    session on CBS. MUCH better job than the evening crew (Zahn and
    McCarver) do.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

Ties are decided by goal-difference.  That's why the Unified Team had
to win by 3.

In fact, it was almost possible that they might have pulled their goalie,
despite being ahead by a goal.


In the medal round, they have sudden death, then shootouts.


'Saw

    re: Dana Carvey
    
    Took the Mrs to "Wayne's World" Friday.  Surprisingly enough this film
    got very good reviews which, IMHO, were pretty accurate.
    
    Very funny stuff, although if ya cain't catch the matinee ($3.50) I'd
    waite for the video ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I agree, that Pat O'Brien & Scott Hamilton replaying the skit was the
    best!  Is this Pat O'Brien class, or what?  Imagine someone like
    Mussberger in his place...
    
    How about that 16 year old Swede ski-jumper.  Amazing.  That's what the
    Olympics is all about, IMO.  
    
    BTW, I wanna party with that Matts Nywhatever, if you haven't
    guessed... :-)
    

    
    Here's an article in a local paper regarding CBS's Olympic coverage.
    
    
Reprinted from The Denver Post, 2/15/92, without permission.


"Where's the beef, CBS?"  by Todd Phipers

Gosh, we've almost reached the half-way point of the 1992 CBS Memorex Winter
Olympics.

Time flies when you're having fun, and what can be more fun than the endless
happy-talk among anchors and other microphone-toters that has become the 
staple of the network's scheduled 100-plus hours of coverage from France.

A variety of adjectives come to mind in trying to describe CBS's efforts
through the openeing week of the Winter Games: Disjointed, confusing, 
convoluted, extraneous, and self-serving are a few that come immediately to
mind.  Oh, yes, and boring.

In all its lengthy preparations for this megabucks extravaganza, the network
seems to have forgotten a rather important aspect about the Olympics: That
they are first and foremost an athletic competition, and that to watch that
competition is the principal reason most of us tune in.

If I want to hear chit-chat, I can turn on Phil or Sally Jessy or Maury
or Regis and Kathy Lee or any of the other seemingly endless possibilities
that come blithering onto the screen almost every day of the week.

I don't need to get up at 7 a.m. to watch Harry Smith visiting with Greg
Gumbel for long stretches, or Tim McCarver and Paula Zahn doing the same
in prime-time between an occasional 30-second snippet of actual competition,
a few interviews of the athletes (usually not very well done), silly features 
and constant promotions of what's coming up in the next half-hour.

Never mind the next half-hour, dammit.  Give me some sports - now!  Or at
least occasionally.

Things should improve today and tomorrow, and again next weekend as the games
draw to a close, when CBS will be around most of the day and can pick up
live events as well as some action that is only delayed for a short period
of time with the results not common knowledge.

Unfortunately, the bulk of its presentation is based on the nightly prime-
time exposures, and it is there that the network seems to have lost its way.

"We can't do anything live," it seems to have told itself, "so we'll de-
emphasize the coverage of the competition itself in most instances and find all
kinds of other cute stuff to fill our air time."

With that attitude, CBS too often has drifted from a formula it researched and
found to be applicable long before the action began in Albertville - that 
unlike the case in most televised sports, viewers will watch delayed coverage
of the Olympics even when they know the results.  The feeling here is that the
network's miscalculations go beyond that.

As a prime-time host, McCarver is about as interesting as the infield fly
rule and Zahn seems like what you'd get if you crossed Jane Pauley with a 
Barbie Doll.

A tip: When McCarver starts a sentence with "You might say..." it's a good
time to leave your set for refreshments or other necessities.  Another of his
annoying puns or plays on words is coming up.

And you don't want to leave during commercials because you might miss the one
for Coke with Katarina Witt, which contains more skating than you're apt to
get in that inevitable "next half-hour."

Here's another question: Why did they ship McCarver, Zahn and that platoon of
other studio personalitites all the way to the French Alps, then park them in
a set that could as easily be in a living room in Arvada?

Some of the CBS gang has performed well when given the chance.  Verne 
Lundquist, Scott Hamilton, Andy Mill and John Davidson are a few that come to
mind.  That's because they're covering events and doing the jobs for which
they prepared.

Give them more air time, CBS, and give us more action in the coming week.  It's
time to cut the fluff.

Hawk,

Small nit: He's Finnish.

Takes his homework to the hill with him.


'Saw

I would think that the landing, after flying 400+ feet through the
air is hellacious on the knees...


Has anyone ever tried this? 


'Saw

>  Okay, who saw the opening Olympics skit on SNL ???   Absolutely totally
>  bodaciously rollward.
 
    That was pretty damm funny.  When the skit first started I thought I
    had to sit thru an Olympic wrap-up show first, but then remembered I
    wasn't on NBC and knew it was gonna be a riot.  I just wish they woulda
    done McCarver and Zahn - I'd probably still be rollin'.
    
    That skit with Hildo was pretty funny too.  I liked it when the
    copy-machine guy walked by: "Diiiillllllldo".  
    
    
    Joe

 More on the tube coverage ...  I'm going to go out on a limb here a bit
 with a controversial opinion ...
 
 Is anyone else just a little tired of the Dan Jansen Melodrama ???   If
 you didn't know any better, you'd look at this guy and think that maybe
 the worst possible country and western song lyrics might actually have
 happened to him ... you know, my dog died, the bank's calling, my
 ex-wife's lawyer is my best friend's son and all that ...
 
 It would seem as though an entire nation held its collective breath just
 to see if Jansen could stay up on his skates for 38 seconds.  And he
 finished fourth by half a second (a finger snap according to Charles
 Kuralt) and we're plunged back into Official Jansen Gloom 'cause he didn't
 scoop up some hardware.    He then sits thru post-race interviews like a
 sad puppy dog and his wife mumbles "We just don't know what happened ..."
 over and over again.
 
 Way way way too much artificial pressure on this guy.  He needs to either
 win a medal and break a smile or go on sabbatical somewhere and break a
 smile.   Yeah, I know he's had some tough breaks but let's put things in
 proper perspective.   Speed skating is supposed to be a fun sport ... not
 a cure for leukemia nor a spiritual cleansing agent.   I would like
 nothing more for Jansen than to do well in his next race and then get the
 hell outta the public eye.   He needs a break from "us" and we need a
 break from "him".
 
 My opinion, remember that ...
 
 Bob Hunt

    Scott hamilton is ok, but I think Tracy Wislon (covers the pairs stuff)
    does a better job. Was she a skater for the Canadian team in 1988 or
    maybe it was 1984??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Yes, Turn nine Loudon. Also very bad on the back, hips, and ankles.
    
    8<)
    
    
    HTH,
    
    -TH

    Come to think of it, Bob, I agree. I'm getting tired of the sob story
    angle. I know it's a severe disappointment to him, but worse things
    could happen. I get the feeling that CBS is gonna follow him around
    continiung with the hang-dawg look until Jansen's going to be the
    living Joe Bfltsk from L'il Abner fame.
    
    JMHO MikeL
    

    I liked the Monaco? Supre G racer who came in last...
    WHAT a riot!!! He did a couple of somersults right at the last gate!
    
    And the real funnt part was that he was waiting for his Ski-instruction
    license......
    
    REK

    I also agree with the Dan Jansen overcoverage. After watching all the
    post race interviews etc, with Dan, wife, etc, I found myself trying to
    talk to the TV, trying to tell this guy "wake up ,stop feeling sorry
    for yourself and go out and kick some but in the next race" . He's not
    the only competitor who was favored in an event then lost. The kid has
    to many distractions, wife and family included, telling him it's ok.
    Just go out and stay focused. By the way he bears a stong resemblance
    to former Bruin Craig Janney.
    
    
        Mike  

    Ok, so the kid's a Finn.  GET OFF MY BACK ALREADY! :-)  
    
    I agree, the Jansen thing is just a bit too much, especially when the
    tv camera parked itself on his wife & her twin sister sobbing away
    after he dropped out of medal contention.  BTW, I think he's a pretty
    lucky guy...double the fun! :-)
    
    BTW, Siskel & Ebert both recommend Wayne's World.  In their tv critique
    that I saw yesterday, they were both very impressed by the amount of
    imagination and originality in the movie.
    
    Hawk
    

    
    HErshel Walker is gonna have tabs on rhw Joe Bfltsk title.  The guy is
    turning into a 1st class, over-hyped loser in everything he does.
    
    Brews

    re 157:
    
    Tracy Wilson was a bronze medalist in ice dancing in the 1988 games.
    
    
    py

    I've reached the point where I'm taping everything, and then watching
    it later.  That way I can fast forward through the interminable ads,
    idiot babble from the studio, and most of the athlete "human interest"
    stuff.
    
    Business Week carried an article on CBS's coverage of the games this
    week.  Headline "Ah, Albertville: A Sweet Surprise of CBS".  CBS "paid
    roughly $243 million for the Albertville games."  Advertisers were
    *not* quick to pick up on these games, because other sports, especially
    on CBS, were siphoning off their ad dollars, and they weren't sure how
    many of us would be watching.  "Ratings for the first four nights have
    run higher than most people expected -- CBS scored an average 19.7 in
    ratings and 30 in audience share through Feb. 12, far above the 17
    rating it guaranteed advertisers."  "...viewers may be the least
    satisfied spectators."  Finishes up with detailing all the complaints
    we've been talking about in here.  :-)
    
    A&W

    
    Hawk, the guys a Finn, btw, did you hear, McMahon's been traded!
    
    HTH,
    
    Brews

You know the thing that gets me is this:

	All this is is the Human Drama of Athletic competition.


So Jansen lost.  Big deal.


There are people everywhere in the world that don't have enough to
eat, or that just lost their job and have three kids, or that are
struggling to find a cure for cancer.

Let's keep it in perspective.  


I daresay 20 years from now Jansen's life isn't going to be ruined because
he didn't get a gold medal.


Losing hurts.  Don't ever let anyone tell you any different.  I saw the
looks on the faces of the English team after the World Cup loss to
Australia -- losing hurts (and it sucks too).  But someone has to lose
and life goes on....


Sorry to get on my soap box...


'Saw

    
    I agree with something somebody said earlier in this note!
    
    I remain,
    firmly,
    Kev
    

>    HErshel Walker is gonna have tabs on rhw Joe Bfltsk title.  The guy is
>    turning into a 1st class, over-hyped loser in everything he does.
    
    I'm no Walker fan, but placing seventh against a collection of the
    world's best athletes does not constitute "loser" in my book.
    
    As far as Jansen goes, he would have had that puppy dog pout on his
    face if he had won the bronze or silver too.  To me, that is a loser.
    
    	--dan'l
    

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it seems to me that every time I saw the
driver of USA I (Shimer? from Morehead State) he was wearing his USA
jacket, but yet you'd see Herschel and he'd have on a grey coat.

Anyone know why Hersch didn't have on a USA uniform???


'Saw

Style points for Ski Jumping.....


		***STUPID****


Shit, if I could go 500 feet, what the hell does it matter if I do
it with a V, standing on my haid, or totally nuded up, blue flaming
as I go....


Stupid.


'Saw

    > Sh*t, if I could go 500 feet, ...
    
    Such language for a so-called winning Moderator ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I think the media is overdoing this whole Jansen thing.  I think he'd
    like to forget it but isn't being allowed to.  He certainly doesn't act
    like failure to win a medal is going to ruin his life - he's been
    through much tougher things.
    
    John

Kev, I dunno, that stance is way too controversal!!

Re Jansen, I didn't see waht happened in the actual race, but judging from
the way the interviewers were crying all over him you think it was a real 
tragedy. He certainly isn't the first to have this kind of disappointment. How
'bout that Swiss skiier who was on the run of her life, but was waved off the 
course halfway through because the racer before her wiped out and was still on 
the course?  She had to go to the bottom, ride the lift up again in nothing but 
her spandex ski outfit, and race again. She didn't do as well, and finished out
of the running. Now THAT's someone I felt bad for. Of course the TV people 
barely mentioned this, and really didn't go into too much explanation on why 
they waved her off. The previous racer wasn't hurt, and was off the actual 
course, but who knows, there are probably rules about this. Too bad CBS didn't 
think it was important enough to mention. 

Re Hockey: I don't know if they did any finageling of the schedule to acommodate
the US. They did at Calgary, so that the US games would be in the evening, but 
the Europeans didn't mind since day games in N. America is primetime evening in
Western Europe. As far as who plays who when, I'm sure every team would have 
preferences as to their ideal schedule, but in this case, I think the US lucked
out. (When they schedule international soccer matches for a 6-team group for 
World Cup qualifying matches, you wouldn't beleive the posturing of who wants to
play who when it would be to your own advantage. FIFA says play all the games 
between X date and Y date, figure out the specifics yerselves)  

Tom

    I disagree with everything that Kev said in his last reply...
    
    I'm enjoying this Winter Olympics a heckuva lot more than the last one. 
    Something about the Olympics being held in Europe, especially in the
    Alps (I'm assuming that Albertville is in/near the French Alps, no?). 
    There's a certain mystique here.  Can't put it in words, but anyone
    who's ever spent any time in Europe knows.  The little villages, the
    shops, the festive atmosphere that only the Europeans know how to host. 
    And, everyone ain't wearing those stupid cowboy hats that they all wore
    in Calgary... :-)
    

    
    re Walker:
    
    I've been hearing how he is going to bring us a medal for the 1st time
    in 30something years.  Then when he is in 9th after 2 runs, I hear how
    he still should get a medal, possibly the gold.  When he disappoints, I
    now hear him say wait until the 4 man.  I still think we'll be waiting.
    
    Brews

	I believe that most of these winter sports ('cept hokey of course) 
are the result of extreme side effects from cabin fever.

				/Don

    ON the ski jumping style points.
    
    Most of the points are for the landing.  That makes a certain amount of
    sense.  If two guys fly for the same distance, but one of them lands in
    a beautiful telemark stance and the other lands kinda tilted off to one
    side and barely standing up, the first guy really did have the better
    jump.  :-)
    
    A&W

    I need to know, Anything going on in the hockey game U.S.A. vs.
    Sweden!!!!!!!!!!!
    

    
    	Didn't they used to have barrel jumping as an Olympic sport?
    
    	Claybroon

Olympic Hockey


If you don't wanna see it, wait till the music stops:




USA    2   2nd period
Sweden 0


Sweden's Mats Naslund was ejected after charging Greg Brown.  Brown
went down, and was out cold.  He is out with a concussion and facial
cuts.  May be out for the rest of the games....


'Saw

    All right!
    
    It would be great having a US-Canada gold medal game.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    ps now watch the host French will upset the US in the first game of the
    medal round.
    
    

       Any 'ockey update, eh?
                                  Denny

	In the third period, 
	USA 3, Sweden 2

    
    Latest update follows the obligatory FF thingie
    
    
    
    
    
    
    USA - 3
    Sweden - 2
    
    Something like 8 minutes into the 3rd.  (2:10 to go - just heard)
    
    Kev
    

    
    Latest update .....
    
    
    
    
    
    21 seconds to go, the score is tied 3-3
    

In the event of a tie, I think the US is still the #1 seed.  I could be
wrong.

Mike

    US needs only a tie to be the #1 seed. they end up
    with a 4-0-1 record, Sweden with a 4-1 record.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    USA led 3-0 in the 3rd, gave up 3 for a 3-3 tie. US has the top seed in
    the group. Goalie was good. Apparently 2 goals came on defensive
    lapses.
    
    This may be good for the US team. They may have learned that when you
    play the better teams you have to concentrate for 60 minutes. Also
    gives them confidence that they can play with anybody.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Usually I set my VCR for a game, know the score and decide not to
    really watch the taped game. Tonight I made use of my tape of the
    USA-Sweden game and it was a truly wonderful game to watch. Incredible
    intensity all the way through. By finsishing second Sweden faces the
    Czech team and not the Unified Team. 
    
    In one bracket
    
    Canada-Germany
    Sweden-Czech
    
    In the other bracket
    
    USA-France
    Unified Team - Finland
    
    I am fairly sure that in the past the medal round was not a single
    elimination deal. If I recall correctly in 1980 the US could have ended
    up with a silver or even bronze if they did not beat Finland after the
    game in whcih they beat the Soviet Union. Anyone remember the details??
    
    The Crazy Met
    
    

     
    RE: 195    I agree completely with what you said about the hockey
               game. Everyone has to remember that Sweden is one of the
               favorites for this tournament and world champions last
               year. Plus they have 9 former NHLer's on the team. 
               I think it was a good game for the US to a team like 
               Sweden.
    
    Re: -1    I think if the US lost to Finland in the gold medal game
              the US would just won the bronze medal. But history
              turned out to be different. Thank god :).
    
                                           Craig
    
          
                                        

    Re. Naslund
    
    Mainly main Naslund made the comment that what he did wouldn't be
    considered an offense in the NHL where he would face disciplinary
    measures from Brian O'Neil. He's right. Unless someone is decapitated,
    O'Neil looks the other way. And this was close. Naslund jumps up into
    Brown's head, who was facing the boards. Major league boarding, IMO,
    definite intent to injure. But of course, Mats won't have to miss the
    rest of the games, because he is an international star. Now if the 
    roles were reversed, Mssr. Brown would be on the Concorde back to
    Southboro. Anyone know if O'Neil is on the hockey review board in
    Albertville??  Scary incident, just takes away from a great hockey
    game. Sweden is an ecxellent team, they don't need this goonery
    from Naslund. Musta learned it from Nilan when both were in Mt.Royale.
    
    Anyway, tough game today with France. Locals will have les francais
    hopped up. Good luck to the team and hope LeBlanc stays hot.
    
    MikeL
     

I was trying to figure this one out too. They used to carry points into the 
medal round in the past olympics. I don't remember exactly the formula, but it
seemed a little compicated. In 1980, after the US beat the USSR, it seemed like
the gold was a foregone conclusion. I don't think it was a US-Finland Final, but
it was their last game. I think the USSR won the Silver and Sweden won the
Bronze and Finland 4th that year.

Tom

    File this in the "Awsh*t File"!
    
    CBS has decided to stick with the afternoon soaps today and NOT show
    the hockey game.
    
    However, it will be shown on TNT for those of you with cable tee vee
    wired in your office!
    
    Unfortunately, my GE radio with tee vee band doesn't pick up cable
    signals  :*(
    
    I remain,
    isolated,
    Kev
    

    
    The US had darn well better come out and completely swamp France today
    to establish their level of play in the medal round.  I think France has 
    to be feeling good about even making the medal round.  They weren't 
    expected to.
    
    So if I understand this thing correctly, when the US gave up the tying
    goal to Sweden it changed their potential second-round opponent from
    Finland/Czechoslovakia to Finland/Unified, right?  Pretty big
    difference, but if they're thinking about what they should be thinking
    about (gold and not silver or bronze), does it really matter?
    
    I assume that a provision for overtime is now in effect in the
    single-elimination format?
    
    glenn
    

    Some skiing results from this morning follow the form feed...
    
    
    
    ...an excellent day for the Italians!
    
    
    Women's Super G	Gold 	Debra Compagnoni, Italy
    			Silver	Carol Merle, France
    			Bronze	K. Seizinger, Germany
    
    Men's 4 x 10K       Gold	Norway
    X-Country Relay     Silver	Italy
                        Bronze  Finland
    
    The Men's Giant Slalom hadn't finished when I left home, but Alberto
    Tomba had a comfortable lead after his second run and appears likely
    to win the gold.
    
    
    py

    From what I heard on the news this morning, this is the first time that
    the medal round for hockey is single elimination.
    
    I thought that fighting got you an automatic suspension in Olympic
    play.  I would have thought the Naslund incident would draw the same
    type of punishment.  Brown is going to miss at least 2 games (provided
    the US gets that far).  Naslund got what, 2 minutes?

    USA defenseman Greg Brown, the guy who suffered a concussion,
    possible broken nose and received 12 stitches won't play in today's
    game.
    
    What kind of a loss does that represent to the team's capabilities?
    
    deen to wonk,
    Kev
    

    	Good to see Naslund hasn't changed his style just because he
    left Les Canadiens.
    
    				/Don

OT is sudden death.  Not sure of duration.

If still tied following OT, then shootout.


I'm not following how the difference between US tying Sweden affected their
second round chances.

US and Sweden were in the same pool.  A win or tie put the US in first
place, and from that, the medal round was set.  Second round matchups
in the medal round should come from the results of the first round.

Or am I missing something?


At any rate, my Mom saw the game yesterday, and was telling me that the
Finnish ref called a biased game, and that the late game "surge" by Sweden
was the result of some power plays.   Of course, as usual, I was trying
to do three things at once when I was talking to her, so I might have
not gotten the entire story straight....

'Saw

    REK -
    
    First off, there is no such thing as the 100 meter hurdles.  
    
    Second - as I stated, it was my opinion.  I must admit I'd rather watch
    the moguls than the aerials.   I'm not into the proliferation of trendy
    sports.
    
    Like I said, a lot of folks don't like certain sports - and someone can
    always shoot back with the old tired refrain "No way.  You try.  The
    best athletes do that event.  Blah, blah, blah."
    
    No remember folks, it's my opinion.  You don't like it.  Tough crap.
    
    JD

>OT is sudden death.  Not sure of duration.

10 minutes, then a shootout if it is still tied.

>I'm not following how the difference between US tying Sweden affected their
>second round chances.

>US and Sweden were in the same pool.  A win or tie put the US in first
>place, and from that, the medal round was set.  Second round matchups
>in the medal round should come from the results of the first round.

Sweden beats the USA they come in first, tie USA they come in second, lose to 
USA come in third.

The tie changed Sweden's opponent.  If Sweden had lost they would have played 
the Unified team in the first round (quarterfinal) game.  That would have 
immediately elminated on of the two favorites (good for everyone else).
The US vs. France winner would have played the winner of Finland vs. Czech.

With the tie, Sweden plays Czech and US or France will play the winner of 
Finland vs. EUN (most likely EUN if you like the favorites).

So a tie changes the possible second round (semifinal) opponent for the winner 
of US vs. France.  Get it??  8^)


Scott

    On the 11:30 fluff lasted night, they showed curling (demo sport) in
    fast motion.  Hilarious.
    
    Then they interviewed Glenn Frye live from Aspen!  Wow, now that's
    topical!  Huh?
    
    	--dan'l
    

    Well, I watched the Canadien broadcast of the games all weekend (3 day 
    weekend out here - site location).
    
    Vastly superior to the CBS telecast.  They show event live.  That's
    right folks, live.  The don't worry about early start times (like 5 or
    6 in the morning) they just come on.  The don't worry about pre-empting 
    soap operas.  And they tell ya when something is live, and when it is
    taped.
    
    By 11 in the morning on Saturday, I had seen a slew of live events.  By
    far the best event I've seen was  the men's cross country pursuit race.
    I think CBS showed about 5 minutes of it.  CBC showed about 25 minutes
    of it - with camera feeds from Finnish and Swedish television.  What
    a race!   In my opinion (that my opinion, folks - understand REK?) it
    was the best event I've seen.   The race for the silver and bronze was
    fantastic!
    
    They also showed the Canada-Unified hockey live.  US-Sweden live. 
    Bobsled live.  Speedskating live.  I knew about Dan Jansen's finish
    early in the morningg.  THe announcers have been great.  Sometimes they
    aren't too animated - but they announce the events.  They are
    realistic.   They had good comments before speedskating - and mentioned
    that the Japanese were threats.   They said that it was very good for
    the Walker sled to finish in the top ten, given his inexperience.  
    
    Vastly superior coverage.   Caught some of the women's skiing this
    morning before coming to work.  Good stuff.
    
    And how about that Tony Neiman (SP?) of Finland.   Yowza!
    
    JD

    
    A real analogy between hurdles and the mogul competition would be there
    if the hurdlers were required to do a backflip or a pirouette at the
    midpoint and end of their dash and be judged for style points.  As I 
    understand it, in the moguls a skier's time down the course only 
    accounts for 25% of his/her score.  That's really the only thing I 
    objected to (if skiing the moguls is as difficult as everyone says,
    let's just see who's the fastest down the damn course).  That and the 
    rock-and-roll music blaring in the background as the competitors are 
    on the course really left an impression of hokiness for me...
    
    glenn
     
                                                                      

    Bak a bunch on Dan Jansen:
    
    The CBC commentator said that while Jansen did suffer through teh
    demise of his sister in 88, that perhaps there is more to his failures. 
    The guy ventured that perhaps Dan gets too uptight at the Olympics,
    lets the pressure get to him, and doesnt perform.  Said that during
    world championships, he races in relative obscurity, since U.S.
    television doesn't cover the event.
    
    JD

    re .211:
    
    > 				They said that it was very good for
    > the Walker sled to finish in the top ten, given his inexperience.  
                                
    I have to agree.  It takes both good athletic ability and good bobsled
    technique to medal at the Olympics.  Walker, in just his second major
    bobsled competition, couldn't realistically be expected to have the
    latter.  Hopefully, the experience Herschel has gained at Albertville
    will help him in the future.
    
    
    py                          

    For every one of us who complains about CBS carrying the soaps instead
    of the Olympics, there are probably about 1000 soap fans who would
    scream bloody murder if their show was preempted.
    
    Face it gang, Sports doesn't rule everyone's lives.  How many times
    have some of you questioned using sports figures as role models, and
    the second class treatment the best college students get in comparison
    with the college athletes?

       So if Walker's so inexperienced and finishing 10th was expected, why
    the hail didn't they use someone more experienced? This is, after all,
    the Olympics!
                                   Denny

    
    	I'll ask again.  Wasn't barrel jumping (on skates) an Olympic
    	sport?  
    
    	Claybroon

    Claybroon,
       I think you're confusing it with bus jumping (on motorcycles).
    				           HTH,		
                                             Denny

>    	I'll ask again.  Wasn't barrel jumping (on skates) an Olympic
>    	sport?  
    
And I'll ignore you again 8^)

I think so.


Re a few back about Sweden medal round -- thanks, I didn't understand that
a Sweden loss would put them back to 3rd place....


Quick question:  Have any of you satellite dish owners found any better
coverage?  Can you tap into the Canadian feed?


'Saw

    Kev,
    
    Try AM 660 on your radio. It is WFAN from NY which can be picked
    up in the Boston area. WFAN is acrrying the US-France hockey game
    live.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    US needs only a tie to be the #1 seed. they end up
>    with a 4-0-1 record, Sweden with a 4-1 record.
    
     Actually, Sweden ends 3-0-2.

     Canada 4-1-0 vs Germany 2-3-0
     Sweden 3-0-2 vs Czechoslovakia 4-1-0
     United States 4-0-1 vs France 2-3-0
     Unified Team 4-1-0 vs Finland 3-1-1
    
>    I am fairly sure that in the past the medal round was not a single
>    elimination deal. If I recall correctly in 1980 the US could have ended
>    up with a silver or even bronze if they did not beat Finland after the
>    game in whcih they beat the Soviet Union. Anyone remember the details??
    
     In the past the top two teams in each pool advanced to the medal round,
     where the results of the game in your own pool standing as a result in
     the medal round.  Then you played the two teams in the other pool, and
     the one with the most points in medal round play was the champion.

     In 1980, the USSR and Finland came from one pool, the USA and Sweden
     (I believe) came from the other.  In the first five games, the USSR
     had beaten Finland, while the US and Sweden had tied.  So, entering
     medal round play, USSR was 1-0-0, US and Sweden 0-0-1, and Finland
     was 0-1.  The US beat the USSR by one goal, and I believe Finland had
     beaten Sweden (not sure about that), so the standings would have been
     USA 1-0-1, USSR 1-1-0, Finland 1-1-0, Sweden 0-1-1.  If Finland had beaten
     the USA, Finland would have ended the medal round at 2-1-0, the USSR at
     2-1-0 (they beat Sweden), and the USA at 1-1-1, so the USA would have
     gotten the Bronze.
    
>                          -< Mats Naslund is a GOON >-

     Matt Naslund won the Lady Byng trophy at least once in the NHL, FWIW.


>                            But of course, Mats won't have to miss the
>    rest of the games, because he is an international star.

     My understanding is that he the play is being reviewed, and Naslund
     may have to miss at least one of the medal round games, in addition
     to being thrown out for the remainder of yesterday's game.

>    So if I understand this thing correctly, when the US gave up the tying
>    goal to Sweden it changed their potential second-round opponent from
>    Finland/Czechoslovakia to Finland/Unified, right?  Pretty big
>    difference, but if they're thinking about what they should be thinking
>    about (gold and not silver or bronze), does it really matter?
    
     No, it changed the US's second round team from Unified/Sweden to
     Unified/Finland.  If the US beat or tied Sweden, then beat the Pool A
     #4 seed, they would play either the Pool A #2 seed or the Pool B #3 seed.
     If Sweden had lost, that would have been a Sweden-Unified Team matchup.

> The tie changed Sweden's opponent.  If Sweden had lost they would have played 
> the Unified team in the first round (quarterfinal) game.  That would have 
> immediately elminated on of the two favorites (good for everyone else).
> The US vs. France winner would have played the winner of Finland vs. Czech.

     The first part is true, the last sentence is not.  See above.

    TcM,
    Thanks for the WFAN alert.  Unfortunately, AM reception in this
    building is a big fat zero.
    Maybe I'll scrounge up an extension chord (~50'!) and run it
    over to a window......
    Stay tooned!
    
    Kev
    

    What's the deal with coverage on the sport that combines xcountry
    skiing and marksmanship ? I havew not seen one piece on it.
    
    What gives ? 
    
    

CBS did about 5 minutes on the Biathalon on Sunday morning.

Probably not much coverage because the US came in 20th.  The piece centered
on the abilities of the new "combined" German team, and the Unified
Team (who has never lost or something like that)....


'Saw    
    

    	I think the biathalon would be much more exciting if the
    contestants shot at each other instead of targets.  FWIW,JMHO.
    
    				/Don

    Re .224
    
    Teh CBC had excellent coverage of the Biathlon team event.  ANd it was
    a history maker.  For the first time in history, the USSR/Unified team
    did not win the gold.   Great stuff!
    
    Re Walker:
    
    He did deserve to be there.  However, CBS did overinflate his being
    there, trying to play up the chance for a medal.  It would have been an
    amazing feat for the US to win a medal in the bobsled.  However, one
    has to be happy with the way the US Bobsled federation is finally
    opening up and getting the best athletes.  There's no reason why the US
    can't be competitive, dispite some great disadvanatages - for instance,
    I think Lake Placid has the ONLY bobsled run in the US.  COmpare that
    with the Euro powers.  Same for the luge.  
    
    Re Mac on Soaps.
    
    Actually, CBS could show stuff live - in the same time frame that the
    CBC does - and not hit ONE soap opera!  Not ONE!   
    
    I do like watching it on CBC, and then tuning in for a short time on
    CBS to listen to them play up things that happened 12 hours before -
    and they know the results...
    
    Re IN General:
    
    The best venue, IMO, has been the x-c venue.  Lots of song singing and
    huge crowds - especially the Scandanavians.   
    
    
    Using x-c as an example, I saw CBS give about 2 minutes to a race, and 
    tehn post the US finishers (who were way back) - and that was that.  IN
    contrast, in one x-c race, the lone Canadien finished 25th - well out
    of the money, but they explained how that was a good finish for him,
    and was a good time.  Why can't CBS at least let us know if the US
    competitors are doing good times - but that they just aren't in the
    upper echelon?   They are Olympians - the same as Dan Janssen and Rocky
    and Bullwinkle, er Natasha, er, that Waitress...
    
    JD

    Isn't WEEI carrying the game today?

    Yes, The Biathalon. Thanks. Most cool event, And I have been wnating to
    see any coverage on it, but true to form CBS has let me down. how I
    wish I had the Canadien  station.
    
    I think that Xcountry has to be one of the most grueling events of the
    competition. Never mind tring to plug a few targets.
    
    What is this ice dancing B.S. ? This event has to go, I can respect
    figure skaters for thier time and dedication to the sport (Very tough)
    but ice dancing is a total waste of ice rental, yet true to form again 
    CBS has it prime time once again.  Ugg. 
    
    
    WThe whole Jansen saga is undr my skin.  I wish this meathead would
    suck it up and win something. I would have some respect for him if he
    did, instead himself and the whole Jansen ontourage whines and pouts...
    Boo hoo hoo. Gag... Results speak, if you can't get them, at least
    have some class and an upbeat atitude.
    
    I wonder what would have happened if Brown boarded Naslund ? The North 
    American Hockey scene would be back to the days of the Broad Street
    Bullies, and the sound of American goonism would be heard around the
    world. Since it was a chicken Swede, (The chicken Swede coach also
    wussed out in going to the press conference, he sent the assis. coach)
    I would be surprised to see any further suspension. (I would like to
    see him out as long as it takes for Brown to come back, seeing as how
    it was intentional *and* boarding.) 
    
    
    
    Does anyone have the adress for CBS sports ? It's letter writing time,
    and I feel that I must write a letter to voice a few frustrations. 
    
    Anyone have a standard form/bit*h letter ?
    
    -TH

    
    Is ice dancing really a sport?  After watching last night the only
    thing it was good for was making my wife hor, er, excited.  I can put
    up with the figure skating, but the dancing seems to be the sport for
    people not good enough to make on the figure skating team.
    
    Brews

    Countless times, even in events outside of the Olympics, figure skating
    has shown itself to be the most marketable event of the Olympic sports. 
    Write all the letters to CBS that you want, but they'll be lost in the
    heap of those marketing surveys showing how popular figures skating (in
    whatever form) is.  They filled the arena during the compulsories where
    everyone does the same basic moves over and over again.

    ....it's kinda like why people keep showing up for Red Sox games year
    after year after year....
                                             Denny

    Re Mats Naslund.
    
    In his 8 NHL seasons, he never received more than *19* penalty minutes
    in a season.  Serious Goon action there.    Methinks I know the real
    reason for the sentiment, but don't want to open up that can of worms.
    
    JD

    I agree with Mac on the popularity of figure skating, but this ice
    dancing on prime time is crrrrap!  Certainly, even the uninitiated
    figure skating fan can see the vast difference between figures and
    dancing.
    
    Brews, care to share with us just what got your wife so excited?  I'm
    kinda in a downslide and could use a lift...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    
    The only way I'd watch ice skating if is they did it in the nude.  They
    I'd watch.  Judges could award extra points on cheek color.
    
    JD

    JD,
    
    a truly priceless reply
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    No JD,
    We're not talking about history of goonism from Naslund, since as
    you pointed out there is none (or minimal). we're talking about this
    one act and IS goonism. It was a total bush act and he deserves
    suspension. But he won't get one, and we won't go into that rathole
    either.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    > ....it's kinda like why people keep showing up for Red Sox games year
    > after year after year....
    
    Naw, the Sox ain't that graceful...
    
    Naslund apparently has never had a reputation as a goon, but that does
    not bely the fact that he was clearly headhunting.  Not only was he
    headhunting with his arms way up high rather than delivering the check 
    with the body, he was holding his stick nearly vertically high above 
    his head, again indicating that this wasn't accidental.  I don't care 
    what his reputation is.  Let the punishment fit the crime.
    
    glenn
    

RE: .222

Yup, I was mistaken.  Here's how things look (a USA win yesterday would have 
put Sweden in Finland's 3rd place slot):

QUARTERFINALS*		SEMI-	    FINALS***
			FINALS**
1 Canada (4-1-0)
--------------------    
4 Germany (2-3-0)   |	Winner
		     >----------
2 Sweden (3-0-2)    |   Winner  |
--------------------		|
3 Czech (4-1-0)			|   Winner
				 >-----------> WINNER GETS THE GOLD
1 USA (4-0-1)			|   Winner
-------------------- 		|
4 France (2-3-0)    |   Winner  |
                     >----------
2 EUN (4-1-0)       |   Winner
--------------------
3 Finland (3-1-1)

* losers play bracket for 5th-8th place
** losers play for Bronze Medal
*** loser receives Silver Medal

Well, I have enjoyed the hockey coverage despite having the epitome
of pencil-necked geeks doing the play-by-play.

Unfortunately, he hit me right in the middle of my pet-peeves again
on Sunday when he referred to some corner action as a "rugby scrum"...


sheesh!


Davidson does a superb job with color though...


'Saw

	Results of the first Olympic hockey game of the day:


	Norway 5, Italy 3
	Norway will meet the Switzerland-Poland winner for 9th place;
	Italy will meet the Switzerland-Poland loser for 11th place.

Result of the Canada-Germany Game:




Canada and Germany played to a tie (forgot to get the numbers) through
the 10 minute sudden death period.

A six man shootout situation followed, again tied.

The seventh man for Canada was Lindros, who scored against the German
goalie.

The seventh man for Germany scooted the puck between the Canadian goalie's
legs (Burke??) but the puck was slowed considerably.  It landed right
on the line.

Ref ruled NO Goal, Canada wins....



'SAw

    The comulsories (the real figures) were removed from figure skating a
    year or 2 ago. There is the original oprogram where some moves are
    required, but no longer figure eights and the like. That count for
    1/3. The free sakte is anything you want and counts for 2/3 of the
    score.
    
    Scoring is strange.
    
    Skaters are given marks, ona 6.0 scale by the judges. Based on these
    scores, skated are ranked 1..N after the original program and awarded
    points (fewer points better).
    
    1st ==   .5
    2nd ==  1.0
    3rd ==  1.5
    4th ==  2.0
    
    Same happens in round 2, but the numbers are doubled
    
    1st ==  1.0
    2nd ==  2.0
    3rd ==  3.0
    4th ==  4.0
    
    Obvioulsy if a skater wins both rounds they win the competition.
    Consider a skater that was 3rd in the original and 1st in the free
    skate. Their score would be
    
    1.5 + 1.0 == 2.5
    
    A skater that finished 1st in the original and second in the free skate
    would score:
    
    .5 + 2.0 == 2.5
    
    The skater that did better in the free skate would win the tie.
    In this way a skater that was 4th in the original program could still
    win
    the competition if they finished 1st in the free skate and the winner
    of the free skate finished no better than 3rd.
    
    2.0 + 1.0 == 3.0
    1.0 + 2.0 == 3.0 (for 2nd place finisher in original)
    .5 +  3.0 == 3.5 (for 1st place finisher in original)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Wow on Canada vs. Germany. I hope the US learns a lesson and really
    comes out flying against France. Home team advantage in the Olympics is
    not something to be ignored.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	ALBERTVILLE, France (UPI) -- Olaf Zinke of Germany won the men's 1,000
meters speedskating race by the narrowest possible margin Tuesday, while
Dan Jansen failed miserably in an attempt to salvage a happy Olympic
memory.
	After skating the fastest 200 and 600 meter split times, Jansen
appeared to cramp up going into the final turn. Jansen, following his
disappointing fourth in the 500 last Saturday, slipped to 26th place in
the 1,000.
	Jansen, the 500-meter world record-holder, had been among the
favorites in both events, eventually slipped to 26th place. Four years
ago, Jansen fell twice in the Winter Olympics in Calgary soon after
being notified of the death of his sister from leukemia.
	Zinke clocked 1 minute 14.85 seconds, just one-hundredth of a second
better than Kim Yoon-Man, who nevertheless collected the first-ever
Winter Olympics medal for South Korea.
	World record-holder Igor Zhelezovski from the Unified Team
representing the Commonwealth of Independent States was sixth in 1:15.
05. His world mark, set three years ago in Holland, stands at 1:12.69.
	Zinke, a 25-year-old auto mechanic from Berlin, used a quick second
lap in his fifth pairing with American Eric Flaim to secure victory.
	Yukinori Miyabe of Japan placed third in the 43-skater field in 1:14.
92.
	German's Uwe-Jens Mey, who captured his second straight 500 meter
Olympic title Saturday, withdrew Monday because of influenza. Hans
Markstrom of Sweden also withdrew.
	Nick Thometz of Seattle, Wash., was the leading American, placing
15th in 1:16.19. Flaim, of Pembroke, Mass., was 16th in 1:16.47,
followed by Dave Bestaman of Madison, Wis., who was 20th in 1:16.57.
Jansen's time was 1:17.34.

       What's this 'shootout' thing, and how does it work? Why cain't they
    do the manly thing and play til somebody scores?!
                                        Denny

>       What's this 'shootout' thing, and how does it work? Why cain't they
>    do the manly thing and play til somebody scores?!

My guess is that there is a single venue for ice hockey.  So they
put in the shoot out to keep the games of a somewhat predictable length
so that they can cram three games into a day....

I think the last thing they could afford would be a marathon like the
Caps-Islanders game five or six years ago...


'Saw

    Shootout is similar to what they do in soccer.  Penalty shots until
    one team has an advantage.  Minimum of 5 or 6 skaters...
    

	End of first period,


	France 1, United States 0

	Total shots on goal:  France 8, USA 5
	Only penalty in 1st period was against the US and was easily killed off.
	Only goal in 1st period, by Steffan Barain (spelling is off, I'm
	  listening to radio) at 11:01 of the period, unassisted.  Goal
	  came as Mo Mantha was trying to pass back to the other US defenseman,
	  and Mantha put the puck right on Barain's stick for the unassisted
	  goal.  The US team may be tired; they played yesterday while the
	  French had the day off.

    Gee, where are the guys that were bashing soccer because of a game
    decided by a shootout? Looks like olympic hockey is guilty as well.

    
    > Gee, where are the guys that were bashing soccer because of a game
    > decided by a shootout? Looks like olympic hockey is guilty as well.
    
    No difference in principle, but a major difference in practice with the
    record low number of goals scored and the record high number of games 
    decided by shootout in the last World Cup.  Several teams were purposely 
    playing for the 0-0 tie...
    
    glenn
    

    	Yeah, but the mainly NHL still uses the "Sudden Death" format.

    ...only in the playoffs. they still have the wimpy 5 minute OT in the
    meaningless regular season!
                                Denny

    	Yeah Denny, but the regular/exhibition season don't mean much
    anyhow.
    
    				/Don

    
    Who cares? Slasher and Denny your like a coupla old ladies
    fer cryin out loud! What's the score of the steenkin game?
    Updates! I need updates! 8^)))
    
    
    Steve

Latest update from Mom who's watching TNT



2nd period    USA 3  FRANCE 1

    Sigh of relief on that last update.
    
    If US wins when do they play again? Thursday? Friday? Also when
    is the gold medal game Saturday or Sunday? CBS could get an incredible
    rating if the US makes it that far. For some reason hockey in the
    olympics is something people watch if the US makes it to the medal
    round.
    
    case in point: Back in 1980 I woke up early (10:30 on a Sunday
    qualifies as early) in the hopes of watching the US-Finland. Problem
    was that Sunday morning TV was dad's doamin - all the news talk show.
    To top it off he doees not follow sports at all. So I get to the living
    room and guess what dad has on? yup the US-Finland hockey game. Only
    thing he understood was goals and maybe from the noise of the crowd if
    something else good happened for the US team. I am still amazed to this
    day.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Frank, kiss your Mom for me! 
    
    
    Steve

	'Saw, please ask you mom if these ugly american hockey type players 
are once again goading the French team into taking harmless boarding 
penalties, then getting all upset (unreasonably so), about it.

				/Don

>    Frank, kiss your Mom for me! 
    
Okay, will do.


My mom is pretty funny.  I mean, she likes those things that you expect
Mom's to like -- figure skating and gymnastics.  But she's also a demon
hockey fan....

It was funny, she called me up the other day (Saturday when USA was playing)
and she says "I'm flipping back and forth here between team USA and
those DAMN Whalers.  When the Olympics are over, they should take TEAM USA
and import them to Hartford -- they're tons better than what we have now"


And, as a kid, I can remember her watching Giants football games with
me, my Dad and my brother...


I just hope the news she keeps sending stays good!


'Saw

>	'Saw, please ask you mom if these ugly american hockey type players 
>are once again goading the French team into taking harmless boarding 
>penalties, then getting all upset (unreasonably so), about it.


My mom was on a rampage yesterday.  Everything about "that goon Naslund"
to "the game was fixed by the Finnish ref".   I said "No, Mom, CLEMSON
ref" but I didn't have the time to explain to her what I meant...


'Saw

    	You know this guy Naslund is such a great guy, that I personally
    think that Brown sliced his own face up (WWF style) to make the
    infraction look worse than it really was.  I mean Greg Brown *is*
    from Massachusetts for God's sake!
    
    				/Don

    
    Sawmain, kiss the Slasher for me willya?
    

I got to watch the first two periods of Canada-Germany today before work (CBC
covered it live starting at 7:00 or so) and I must say I am most impressed by
Eric Lindros. Everytime he was on the ice he created a scoring chance. He's not
just a stud , he's got great ice vision and great passing ability.

I'd like to see the Canadians move forward....

Sean Burke let in a couple of relatively easy shots to get the Germans going.

Looking forward to watching Tomba tonight...Ice dancing from 8 till 11 last
night.....ugh..watched Weekend at Bernies instead...what a riot.....


Metz

    >Frank, kiss your Mom for me! 
    
    But as long as it ain't like Elvis and his mom!!!
    

Final Results:



USA 4 France 1

US scored their fourth with between 8 and 10  minutes left in the 3rd, I think.
I listened to WFAN on the way home.

Got ugly at the end, some pugilistics, pushing and shoving etc.  At the
end France was skating 6 on 3....sheesh.  

Melee at the end but I didn't see it....


'Saw

You know, I cannot for the life of me understand what the deal
is with Alberto Tomba.

People go wild over this guy.  Why?


Last night in the medal ceremony, I'm surprised he could find a hat
large enough for his haid, and man did he need a shave.  I mean,
I never shave before a match, but if I'm going out later that night
I do.

They treat this guy like he is royalty, and yet all he does is put
a couple of boards on his feet and slide down a mountain.    What is
the big deal?  He doesn't even race the downhill....


Sorry folks, but for me Tomba is just another hyped up guy.....




On another note, the one part of the CBS coverage that I enjoyed last
night was the bit on the camera position that allows them to get
that "eagle eye" view of the slalom events.  It's on a ridge opposite
and they have to helicopter in.  Too cool......


'Saw

    There was a sport called barrel jumping but I don't think it was ever
    in the Olympics.
    
    John

    
    'Saw I guess it all comes down to your perspective. I'm sure 
    Tomba is revered(sp?) in Italia, just like Michael Jordan
    is here. He is a great skier and personality, even if his
    head is as big as a blimp. Hey come to think of it, why was
    he the only skier wearing a helmut(little ski humor)? Maybe
    to keep it from expanding, whilst he charged down the hill?
    
    
    Steve

    The U.S.A. will play the winner of the United Team - Finland game, on
    Friday at 11:00 a.m. followed by Canada  vs. the winner of
    Czechoslovakia - Sweden at 3:00 p.m. The 2 losers of that game will
    face off for the Bronze medal Saturday at 3:00 p.m.
    The 2 winners of Fridays games will play Sunday morning at 8:15 a.m.
    THAT IS NOT A MISTAKE- 8:15 in the A.M. for the Gold and Silver medals.
    
    Ed who already has taken a personal day Friday to see the U.S.A. kick
    some BUTT.

    Hey, say what you will, but Tomba is one of those rare few who walks it
    likes he talks it (or however that goes).  What's the big deal?  Well,
    for starters he may be the greatest slalom skier of all time.  If he's
    not, then he's certainly slalom's Mr. Clutch (no one other than Tomba, 
    not even the great Ingemar Stenmark, has ever won gold medals in an 
    alpine discipline in two different Olympics).  With a couple of great
    times in yesterday's giant slalom already on the board, Tomba still
    bettered them all in his final run in spite of falling off the pace on
    the top half of the course.  That's coming through under pressure.
    
    If Tomba can pull off another gold in the slalom, the coronation will
    be like nothing you've seen yet.  I'm hoping the guy does it...
    
    glenn
     

    >head is as big as a blimp. Hey come to think of it, why was
    >he the only skier wearing a helmut(little ski humor)? Maybe
    >to keep it from expanding, whilst he charged down the hill?
    
    
I know you're kidding, but actually the real reason is because of the style of 
skiing he uses.  He skies through the gates, rather than the traditional style 
of just a few years ago of skiing around them.  He pushes every gate out of his 
way with his arm/shoulder (it is the skies that need to go around them, not the 
body), and tends to take a few off the old noggin in the process.  Supposedly 
he is the one to make this style the "new wave" and isn't the only one wearing
a helmet.  

Supposedly Tomba want to go to Hollywood and be a big star.  He's got the ego, 
that's for sure.

But to be fair, he is the one and only person to ever win the gold medal in the 
same event (any event, not just skiing) in two different winter Olympic Games.  
That is impressive when you think of all the names that have preceeded him.

Scott 

Yeah, but keep it in perspective, I guess.

I mean, the guy is good, but from watching those stories last night,
I get the impression that if he dropped trou on the street in Albertville
and peenched a loaf, they'd pick it up and bronze it....



As to his helmut (cute, I liked that) I'll bet he was in a parasailing
accident and has tons of metal in his haid.... 8^)


'Saw

    Enter the pensive wet blanket......
    
    First congrats to the USA hockey team but their latest win started my
    1x a month thinking.....  ;^)
    
    Are these guys overachieving?  Didn't they have a overall losing
    record before the Games? Up to this point in the games, what did the 
    so called "experts" predict their record/chances to be?
    
    The comparison between these guys and the '80 team, with all the hype
    today is almost overwhelming!  If they *DON'T* win the gold, what will
    the reaction be?  Will people say they choked?  Will they be honored
    for their play so far?  
    
    I don't have an opinion, I'm just looking for others!
    
    I remain,
    curiously iced,
    Kev
    

    
> But to be fair, he is the one and only person to ever win the gold medal in the 
> same event (any event, not just skiing) in two different winter Olympic Games.  
    
    This is incorrect.  Off the top of my head, there's Dick Button, Sonja
    Henie, and Katarina Witt in figure skating, that famous Soviet couple in
    figure skating pairs, Bonnie Blair in speedskating, Matti Nykaenen in ski 
    jumping, and I'm sure many others...
    
    glenn
    
    

    
    > I don't have an opinion, I'm just looking for others!
    
    The only thing the US hockey team has accomplished so far is a tie
    against a tough Swedish team and to avoid a major upset loss to some
    vastly inferior opponents (which I realize happened nonetheless to the
    US in the last two Olympics).  People should keep that in mind in 
    setting realistic expectations.
    
    glenn
    

    He's the only one in skiing.
    
    Kev?  Not have an opinion?  Is this a first?
    
    I admire Tomba, but I didn't have to see 30 minutes of him last
    night AFTER the event, being interviewed by an interviewer speaking
    in broken English, going to parties, spraying champagne.  Why not show
    more athletes?  I missed the first couple of hours, but why not show
    more of the hockey games or other events?

    Walt,
    
    Actually, I do have an opinion but if I voice it here, I stand
    a real good chance to be banished, if ya get my drift!
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    on good behavior
    
    Kev
    

I think the Olympics, just like any other "tournament", is definitely a
case where you have to peak at just the right time.


What does it matter what the USA's record was prior to the Olympics. 

They are playing their hearts out, and playing some good hockey.

If they are starting to peak, then things will go well, if not, well....


I would not minimize their accomplishments so far.  One of the things I've
noticed in all of the games I've seen (not just the US games) is that the
refs seem to have a slight bias in calling the game.  This affects a lot
of things.

For example, three men down yesterday late in the game, (it would have been
a 5on3 except that France pulled their goalie) the ref called a cross-check
in the crease.  No NHL ref would have done that...  It didn't make any
difference, I guess.


All of that aside, the US is playing well, and winning.  That's what counts...

'Saw

       The way the Broons are playing, coach Bonehaid says he's going to
    move his 3 Olympians right on to the roster. Hopes they'll provide a
    'spark', kinda like Joyce and Janney in '88 I guess.
                                             Denny

    CBS could have limited the Tomba madness a bit last night. The guy is
    clutch. He delivered the goods last night. That was great skiing by the
    last group of competitors. Each one skiied into 1st on their last run.
    Only to be surpassed by the next racer. Giradelli had a great run, then 
    followed by Tomba. I wish they showed more than 60 sec's of the Canada
    Germany game. The puck just sat there on that last shot. I thought it was 
    quite fitting how the ref just kicked the puck aside at the end. Like
    it was nothing big. 
    
    
    Another question ? I'd like to know the secret to the Japanese Nordic
    team. I never even thought they had a team , then they capture the team
    gold. Why can't the US produce a team like that . They seemed fearless
    on the jumping.
    
    
    MM
    MM

re Japanese team:


They would tell you that it's because we're stupid, fat, lazy
Americans..... 8^)


'Saw

    > The guy (Tomba) is clutch.
    
    Bingo.  Say what you will about Tombamania, but when it comes time to
    put up or shut up he puts up...that to me is the big difference between
    Tomba and, say, a Christopher Bowman.
    
    re the US hockey team's chances, they were seeded fourth in the Olympic
    tournament.  Given that they've made it to the final four, they've at
    least met expectations...anything from here on in is gravy.
    
    
    py

	Come on Kev, stop playing martyr and give us your opinion.  8^)  
Gotta pull for the goolie 'cuz he's from right next door (Fitchburg).  
Hey Denny, I read today's Glob and Harry's already posturing for the 
contract negotiations by saying Juneau isn't that good, didn't look 
impressive against "good" talent, etc.  You will not see many Olympians 
in a Broons sweater unless they're willing to work for minimum wage.

				/Don

    Sorry /Don, not ready to do that right now  8*)
    
    Here's what the Glob said about Friday's game and the tee vee
    situation.
    
    CBS can select the following options and as of now, they are undecided
    what they'll do
    
    a)  Show the USA game live at 11:00AM
    b)	Keep regular programming and allow TNT to show the game with a 1
    	hour delay
    c)	Keep regular programming and allow TNT to do it live
    d) 	Shut off TNT and show highlights during the evening
    
    <set mode Cynic>
    
    Betcha they pick "d"
    
    Kev
    

    Basically, the US hockey team is riding on the shoulders of their
    goalie, who has been just *huge* for the whole tournament.  I can only
    hope that he has two more big games in him.  Yesterday's game wasn't
    helped by the fact that the US is three men down (I think) due to
    injuries, so all of the "role" players are now playing regular shifts. 
    Watched the US-Sweden game on tape, and the officiating was definitely 
    different.  The same ref worked the Canada-Germany game, and called 
    weird stuff in that one also.  He definitely seems to have a pro-Europe 
    bias.  :-)
    
    Alpine skiing in Europe has the level of fan interest and support that
    basketball does here in the US.  Think of Tomba as the Michael Jordan
    or Magic Johnson of alpine skiing, and you come close to the sense of
    what the fans see in him.  (Maybe a better analogy would be Jose
    Canseco in baseball.)  
    
    I like the CBS coverage less and less as the games go on.  I happen to
    enjoy the figure skating - but I like all the *other* stuff, too.  I
    want more of the events!!  Here's hoping NBC does better this summer.
    
    A&W

    Women's Super g results...
               
    
    
    Wiberg SWE - gold
    Roffe US and Wachter- AUT tied for the silver...

    
    > Roffe US and Wachter- AUT tied for the silver...
    
    Wow, that's pretty wild.  After two runs (correct?), tied down to
    1/100 of a second...
    
    glenn

Does that mean that NO bronze is awarded?

    Boy, as I watched teh skiing yesterday, especially Tomba, I thought 
    "Boy, wouldn't this be much more exciting if Alberto had to do little
    arm waves and tiny jumps for style points.  Yeah, Sure."
    
    JD

>    Boy, as I watched teh skiing yesterday, especially Tomba, I thought 
>    "Boy, wouldn't this be much more exciting if Alberto had to do little
>    arm waves and tiny jumps for style points.  Yeah, Sure."
    
Actually, I was thinking that it would have been more exciting had
Tomba wiped out in a big flail of arms and legs.  As he rolled down
the mountain he began to snowball, with arms, legs, skis and poles
sticking out.  Then, just before he went over the cliff, Rocky
(no, not the truck driver) swooped down and stopped him....

Yeah, that's the ticket!


'Saw

    I think bobsled and luge tracks should be much wider so all the
    competitors go at once.  I think ski races should be done with all
    competitors simultaneously.  I think speed skating should be done with
    all racers on the track at once.  And, I think figure skating should be
    full contact.
    
    John

    A gret 4 x 10K X-C relay race yesterday.  Great battle for the bronze.
    
    Norway was awesome.  
    
    The Japanese have had a very nice Winter games.  Talk about clutch. 
    All 3 Japanese had personal bests in the X-C portion.
    
    Frank - no bronze is awarded, I believe.  
    
    JD

    RE: Tomba
    I don't like the guy and was hoping he at least wouldn't win the gold. 
    That was on exciting giant slalom with the last 4 or so skiers moving
    into the top spot as they went.  When Tomba was only .3 seconds behind
    Girardelli at the first split I figured he would win it because the
    skiers tended to make up time at the bottom of the course.
    
    RE: US Hockey team
    At this point, I think most people would probably consider it somewhat
    of a disappointment if they take the bronze or don't medal.  I thought
    going into the Olympics it would be a tremendous feat if they could win
    a medal, so regardless of what happens from here on out I think they've
    done great.  BTW, they only way they *won't* now is if they lose their 
    last 2 games.  Assuming Unified Team beats Finland, I expect US to lose
    to the Unifieds.
    
    The Norwegians would have to be considered the surprise of these
    Olympics thus far, considering they only won 5 medals at Calgary and
    already have 16 with more probably to come.
    
    
    Joe
    
    

    Joe -
    
    Norway has been a surprise - but what they've done is recaptured the
    top X-C spot on the planet.  The Unified Team, Finland and Sweden, plus
    Norway, usually own those events.   Norway winning alpine medals has
    been a surprise to me.  
    
    Great stuff.  Love the way them Norwegians sing and party!
    
    Hawk wants to party in that country!
    
    JD

    Tomba = Clutch, how true. Sure beats listening to Dan Jansen, Tomba was
    favored and came thru, while Dan lost and  wept. Snif, Snif.
    
    I liked the short track speed skating, lots of action, to bad there
    is'nt more coverage.
    
    I too would like to see figure skating full contact, I had this notion
    of seeing Cris Nilan all suited up comming out of the Zamboni opening
    from the far end of the rink and nailing Cris Boweman while he is in
    the middle of a triple linde'. This proceded by driving him all the way
    into the judges bench.
    
    How would Scott Hamilton call it ?
    
    
    -TH  

    
    I don't think the comparison's of Tomba to Jordan or even Canseco are
    fair.  They don't seem to go to near the efforts that Alberto does to
    increase the level of hype that the media creates.  Don King would be a
    better fit.
    
    Brews

    Oh, no, back on this Mogul skiing thing again. It's just a different
    discipline of skiing. Just like downhill vs slalom. Each one has it's
    own merits, otherwise all the skiers would be in every event. 
    
    Now is the small track speed skating another form of roller derby. This
    stuff cracked me up, 3-5 skaters all at once, one falls they all fall.
    
    
    MM

    
    > I don't think the comparison's of Tomba to Jordan or even Canseco are
    > fair.  They don't seem to go to near the efforts that Alberto does to
    > increase the level of hype that the media creates.  Don King would be a
    > better fit.
    
    But I also don't think it's fair to make cultural comparisons between
    Americans and Europeans.  For some reason, the Europeans seem to love
    the athletic braggadocio while Americans generally loathe them.
    
    Hey, from all I've seen Tomba does indeed behave like a horse's butt 
    (like that stuff the other night about not feeling relaxed unless he's 
    got a woman with him at all times).  I was merely responding to the 
    question of "what's so great about Tomba?".  There's plenty great about 
    Tomba.  You can't be prejudiced by the personality in objectively
    measuring the athletic accomplishment.
    
    glenn
    
               

I asked the "What's so great" question, because I personally feel that
the heroes we should be getting all giddy over should be folks who 
REALLY do something -- like finding disease cures and stuff...


Sorry, i guess I'm in a mood today....8^)


'Saw

    
    Did those of you who want multiple skiers on the same course happen to
    see the Moroccan (I think) get passded on the GS?  I was pretty funny,
    the guys must have had a 3 minute headstart and gets lapped.
    
    Brews

    CBS did a feature on the short-track speedskating on the lat-night
    wrapup show, but they didn't explain it at all.  All they did was talk
    to some former and current skaters and got some comments, but no
    explanation on how the sport is actually conducted.  
    
    Another thing I forgot to mention about Tomba: I still laugh when I
    think of how he wanted to meet some figure skater at Calgary (wasn't it
    Katarina?), but after her routine he was there waiting (of course ABC
    covered the whole thing) to meet her, but she just said 'Hi' and left. 
    Burned him bad.
    
    
    Joe

    Walker has been pulled from the Bobsled team...
    
           He's been replaced with an alternate...
     
                   no reason given yet from the American team???

    Re Short track skating
    
    They showed a bunch of it on CBC yesterday.  What was interesting is
    that a Canadien woman, a 5 time world champeen, didn't advance.  Seems
    that the American skater in her heat whacked her left leg and skate
    right at the start, and did something to the skate.  Seems that this
    American has a rep as being a 'dirty' skater.  Pretty funny stuff.  
    They didn't dwell on it too long.  No replays or anything.  They sort
    of said "Well, that is too bad"  They interviewed the Canadien skater,
    who did a little whining, but then just said it was disapointing and
    that was that.
    
    Watching a little of the CBS feed last night, I sometimes get the idea
    that they overdub the announcing.  Just a feeling.
    
    Why can't they show all the American athletes competing?  Why spend a
    zillion minutes on Dan Janssen, and none on Bergstron, who beat Janseen
    in the race?  
    
    JD

    
    I think a comparison to short track speed skating and roller derby is
    truly unfair. Although I did'nt see much of it, it looked wildly
    exciting. 
    
    It appears that trying to get the inside line while fighting off
    opponents to make the finish line while doing 15-20 mph(?) looks like a
    hell of alot more skill than some of the other so called Sports. (I.E.
    ice dancing.)
    
    I would like to see more and some rules on this one. As usual CBS gave
    a 30 second blurb on it and a bunch of fluff pieces instead. I
    should've known better.
    
    What the problem with Tomba ? He performs under pressure and when it
    counts. So what if he likes to be seen with the ladies, he's not
    breaking the law, doing it with farm animals, or late nite rape and
    pillage escapades like some of the American Sports Figures. 
    
    He has the reputation in Europe as a playboy and it seems that he lives
    up to it. BFD. When AT is competing, you know he will give it his best
    and make it exciting, what more could you ask ? 
    
    I enjoy the AT show and he has done what no other alpine skiier has,
    win back to back gold medals. When someone can top it then they can
    take over the spotlight, but until then AT is king of the hill in my
    book. 
    
    Besides it's nice to see someone compete and qwin and not ask for a
    salary increase or to go to arbitration.
    
    
    

    
     I agree with .307. What's Tomba's crime ? That he has a personality ?
    Sure that 'I'm not comfortable unless I have a woman beside me' line 
    was a bit much but the man *is* talented and good looking and smart and
    if that's a crime well then lock me up. [isfh]

>     I agree with .307. What's Tomba's crime ? That he has a personality ?
>    Sure that 'I'm not comfortable unless I have a woman beside me' line 
>    was a bit much but the man *is* talented and good looking and smart and
>    if that's a crime well then lock me up. [isfh]


He's got a huge ego.  That's just something that I personally dislike.

I mean, for all the adoration he gets you figure he'd do something
important.....


(So, Tommy, you wanna turn yourself in, or do we need a warrant 8^))


'Saw

    After Girarldi's(sp) most excellent run, I just could not see Tomba
    bettering that.  But he did, and it it truly impressed me.  With a
    performance like that, I couldn't feel anything but happy for the guy. 
    As far as the nature of his personality, I think that that is just the
    European way.  European men seem to be more emotional, outgoing,
    exuberant, etc. than American men.  American men are typically reserved
    and inward.  So, for us American's, Tomba looks like an egotistical
    jerk.  But through European eyes, he's just a great hero...
    
    Hawk
    

    It would figure, the one glance I took at CBS last night and they have
    Witt sending a message to Tomba that she is in ALbertville, and a
    reporter asking Tomba when he will see Witt.
    
    gag!
    
    any updates on hockey scores. Would be nice if Finland knocked off the
    Unified team. But, I would not be that shocked if the US beat the
    Unified Team, though I wouldn't bet on it unless I was given decent
    odds.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    He didnt srike me as having a huge ego, only alot of Character in front
    of the camera. 
    
    I see what you mean about him doing something important, but in skiing
    circles and in Italia he is a GOD right now.
    
    P.S. anyone has a ski report for Killington? I'm going to do my version
    of Tombamania 92 tommorrow. (Do they have a 800#)
    
    Thanks,
    
    -TH

> I asked the "What's so great" question, because I personally feel that
> the heroes we should be getting all giddy over should be folks who 
> REALLY do something -- like finding disease cures and stuff...
    
    I wholeheartedly agree, Frank.  I'm not endorsing these guys who follow
    the guy around kissing his feet.  My response was informational: Tomba
    is the first skier ever to win gold medals in separate Olympics (and he
    is fun to watch on the course...)
    
    glenn
    

got up early today to watch the Women's GS while working out. Diana Roffe of the
US had a monster 2nd run to win (actually tie) for the Silver. I think the US
women came in 2nd , 5th and 6th overall. I pretty good showing. CBC showed all
15 racers in the first seed. CBS last night only showed 7 racers in the men's GS
and then 30 minutes of Tomba on the town.

Speaking of Tomba...The guy is huge, coordinated and clutch. He's the best
technical skier on the planet. He wasn't the first to go through the poles (when
the Mahres won their medals they had just started using the breakaway poles and
the new technique of J-turns instead of round turns)

Although the mogul skiers are good the best skiers are still the racers. It's a
matter of money. The best athletes go where the cash is and in europe the cash
is in racing, not moguls. (Sort of like the best skaters skate singles and not
ice dancing). 

I thought the mogul competition was great but that Nelson Carmichal got hosed.
His helicopter off the first jump and then great time should have insured him 
the gold.....I'd prefer it if they made the run 3x as long and made it a race 
instead of a judged competition....

I'm taping 6 hours of CBC coverage today including speed skiing. CBS will 
probably show 30 seconds of speed skiing coverage and spend 10 minutes up close
and personel with the guys that make the aerodynamic suits they wear.

Can't wait to see the short track speed skating finals. 6 people trying to fit
around a hockey rink smashing into each other. 

Katerina Witt has accused some skater of cheating. It seems Midori Ito was out
practicing today to her music and some other skater was out there practicing
also and she performed a back flip near Ito. The rules say that you can practice
while another skater is practicing but you can't do any moves not allowed in the
competition......Yet another reason to hate figure skating.....

Watched the mens 40k XC relay last night. Those guys impress me with their 
stamina and ability. 

Womens biathalon was on as I left. 1 Canadian had medal possibilities. CBC also
replayed the whole shootout of the canada-germany game yesterday. Pretty 
exciting stuff even if it isn't for purists. I wouldn't like to see it decide
a gold medal though.

The Canadian Curlers are sweeping through the ranks. What? you mean CBS hasn't 
shown any curling. Oh , well...

CBC payed $10 million for the rights to these Olympic games, CBS payed $240
million.....

I like the winter Olympics a ton better than the summer ones. The sports are
faster, more exciting, more dangerous and more unusual. Plus it takes a special
place to host a winter games (even LA can host a summer games). 

My brother in law was at the games last week and watched the downhill and a few
other events and skied 8 days as well. I'm envious but last weekend at Whistler
in BC helped me get over it....

Metz

Glenn --

I wasn't offended....



Re Tomba's ego:

My opinion is based on other interviews I've seen with the guy.  As usual
CBS spent more of their time on the dozens of people who have no lives
and look for the instantaneous gratification of a "god" walking by,
than on the athlete himself.


'Saw

    A few Winter Games musings:
    
    
    I hate the CBS coverage but by the time I get home, that's all I get to
    see.  You've all read it before, I'll say it again.  When ya gonna
    focus on the gawd*mmed SPORTS, CBS????!  
    
    
    I like figure skating (and even Ice Dancing), which is does indeed
    hover on the threshold betwixt art and Sport.  All the same, glad it's
    there.  Maybe dancing in the Summer games would make folks feel better
    (no, no, there's too much in the Summer games completely ignored
    already!)
    
    
    I've always wondered what curling was, thanks to the commericials and
    slobbering over what people do when they aren't doing their sport, I
    expect I shall never see.
    
    Alberto Tomba has an ego that can fit in a boot the size of Italy.  Tha
    said, yes, he is a grand skier.  Except his name on a marquee near you.
    (come on, why are we interviewing Sylvester Stallone on Alberto Tomba? 
    We could be watching...curling!  :)  Well, it is the Olympics, not
    Hollywood Celebs Salute night.)
    
    I have begun to think that all those people walking into the Opening
    Ceremonies (which I guess I only saw half of) really must be non
    competitors.  After all, I've only seen a total of maybe ten ice
    skaters and twelves skiers and the same three guys on ski jumping....
    
    (translation:  I'd like to see a wider selection of the participants,
    CBS, please.  They may not win, but one can appreciate the best efforts
    all the more with OTHER efforts to compare them against)
    
    
    Paul Wylie got shafted.  He should have got the gold.  Or Petr Barna
    should have.  Skating judges are snobs.  
    
    I like Christopher Bowman but only because nobody else does.  :)
    
    I think CBS is more to blame for Dan Jansen's 'failure' than Dan is. 
    When is 4th totally irrespectable?  How many skaters were there?  (I
    know, only three or four based on the coverage).  If I had Vulture-cam*
    stuck in MY face and getting asked billions of times, "So, Dan, you
    over your sister's DEATH yet??  Huh?  Huh?" I'd throw the damned race
    just to get the hell away from them.  And afterwards, why, oh why
    doesn't his wife or him say something like, "Look, would you get off my
    BACK already??  What happened? You want to know what happened? 
    Obvioulsy, I didn't win!  I was not the best today!  Go interview
    Alberto Tomba or something!"   :)
    
    
    Herchsel Walker isn't the driving force on the bobsled, it's the driver
    that can win or lose the race although the pusher (which HW is) helps
    on the start.  It wasn't like he pushed the sled all the way down the
    run.  How come focus is on his rather than the guy actually driving the
    bobsled?  Don't answer that, it was rhetorical.  HW is a star, the
    other guy just is a guy who drives a bobsled.
    
    
    I don't like Scott Hamilition.  Tracy Wilson shuts up during the
    performances and lets us watch without screaming THERE WILL BE A
    DEDUCTION every time someone falls.  I think even the
    skating-illiterate among us can readily assume the judges take off for
    falling on your butt without being screamed at.  It's really no wonder
    none of the men really had a clean program.  
    
    I liked when Scott Hamlition was busy telling us all the awful things
    that had happened during Kurt Browning's free program and why he
    wouldn't get a medal, blah blah blah.  During a replay of a fall, SH
    went on about something like, "ANd I think he was fatigued right
    here, so he fell," and off camera, Kurt said "Yes, that's right Scott."
    He must have been in earshot of all SH's running comments during
    replay.  SH sounded a little like he'd been caught with his hand in the
    cookie jar.  I hope that maybe SH will learn to keep his voice down. 
    Speak, Scott, do not scream.  
    
    
    Enuf for now.
    
    kim

re Dan Jansen:

	Hell, I'd LOVE to be 4th best in the world at something!

	CBS is making a way big deal out of this.  And I thought that
	Dan handled the interview last night pretty well.  He told them
	in a very subtle way that there are more important things than
	skating.

	When the CBS dweeb asked him if he was satisfied about this
	Olympics or if he wanted it back to do over he said

		"Life doesn't work that way.  It's over.  If I could
		 have anything back I'd go back four years and get
	 	 my sister back"


	Sheesh.  CBS dweebs is right...


Tomba needs a shave.  Doesn't he realize that the unshaven look went
out with early George Michael.   And Alberto, hey, lose a little of
that gut if you wanna be in movies...


Curling:

	Get a rock.  Attach a handle.

	Get two people with brooms.

	Pain a bullseye about 100 feet away on the ice.

	Slide the rock towards the bullseye, whilst the people
	with broom furiously sweep in front of it.


	Much better if done totally nuded up....


'Saw

    Oh yea I forgot about the word association bit with Jansen and the
    CBSDweeb. What a load of an interview, I almost wet myself while he was
    asking questions.
    
    Does the U.S. have anyone competing in the Biathelon ? CBS Does'nt have
    a reporter on the beat so I have to ask in here.
    
    I want to see more Short track speed skating, but I would like to see
    them do it with muzzles on and a stuffed rabbit on a leader going
    around and around. Would'nt that be something.
    
    
    -TH

      re- moguls,
    
      I don't think the best skiers are the ones who race.  I think they
    are all the best at whatever style they are doing.
    
      I for one can appreciate the mogul skiers.  I love doing them,  when
    my legs are in shape for it.  It takes a talent to ski moguls, just as
    it does for racing.
    
      I do like to ski the gates when races aren't being held.  Its fun, 
    especially when your racing a friend.
    
      Figure skating is booooooring.....speed skating is good... 
    Unfortunately CBS has shown more figure skating than anything else,  at
    least when I go to watch.
    
    	Tim

    
    Jansen's only crime is that he really does look as if his dog just 
    died, as someone has already said.  If he'd look a little more
    comfortable, we'd probably feel more comfortable listening to his
    interviews, too.  But the more forlorn he looks, it seems, the more 
    the interviewer seems to bore in, like an animal intuitively sensing 
    fear or something.
    
    I actually thought Jansen's wife's reactions were much more
    stomach-wrenching than his.  I think she might be the one who needs
    to lighten up, although I'd have preferred not to have seen her at all...
    
    glenn
    

    We are hard-core sports fans.  Most folks who watch the Olympics are
    not.  So, CBS cannot show 100% coverage or else they won't get any kind
    of decent ratings.  Also, putting the coverage together and just
    showing the sporting events wouldn't fill up the time available in the
    evening.  They have to put the coverage together in such a way that it
    fills the time, so, we get the human interest stories to fill the time
    and attract the casual fan.  Unfortunately, the more spectacular the
    human-interest story, the better able it is to grab and hold attention.
    
    The casual fan is interested in only a few things, generally just the
    Americans and only is interested in the sports superficially.
    
    They also have to show the things that will attract the audience and
    it's been proven, time-and-time again, the top rated events are figure
    skating in the Winter Games and gymnastics in the Summer Games.  As a
    Hockey Krishna, I would love to see nothing but hockey tripleheaders
    during the Winter Games but then, CBS would be killed in the ratings. 
    So I use the remote and jump in and out.  I wish I had a better option
    to watching but I don't.
    
    As far as the Jansen stuff goes - there is a real herd mentality in
    journalism - and it's more of a herd the more sensational, tug-at-the
    heartstrings or different it is.  Tomba?  Playboy.  Tonya Harding and
    Mary Docter?  Overcoming tough lives.  Dan Jansen?  Tug-at-the
    heartstrings in spades.  Everybody wants to talk to him.  Some people
    thrive on it.  He doesn't.  It doesn't make him a bad person or a choke
    artist or anything else - other than a guy who got a tough break in his
    life, has (I think) tried to put it behind him and can't because no one
    would let him.  I think he would have been better off being a jerk and
    talking to no one as opposed to talking to everyone and having it all
    dredged up again.  It had to affect his performance but I refuse to
    bash him for it.
    
    John
    
    PS - here's an example of the herd mentality in action - 1978, while
    working with the team, I met John Powers, who now covers the Olympics
    for the Globe but who was covering the Patriots that season.  OJ
    Simpson had just been traded from Buffalo to his home town of San
    Francisco.  He was going out to the Niners camp to interview Simpson
    and basically he was doing it because everyone was doing it.  That
    camp, Simpson was having a press conference one day a week to answer
    the questions about the trade, his feelings about going home and so
    forth.  I remember thinking what a waste it was to send John out there
    for a mob scene press conference where he wouldn't learn anything new
    or get any other information that no one else would get. 

    > Anyone have a final on Finland-Unified Team yet?
    
    I had it, but for some reason I cannot find it...
    
    Hawk
    

>    I had it, but for some reason I cannot find it...
>    
>    Hawk


I think what you MIGHT find, Mr Hawkmeister, is a bunch of VERY thirsty
people, oh, long about 10:30 that morning, at the Rat.....


'Saw


    

    bailiff,
    
    better hope you don't gotta pee pee in the near future!
    
    many more.....
    
    Kev
    

What's the hardship with Tonya Harding....


For my money, she can come and skate in my backyard ANYTIME.....

    'Saw
    
    that is really big of you :-), what a generous soul :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

After failing in the 1000m a reporter asked Dan Jansen if he was going to be back
for the 1994 games in Lilihamer.

Jansen replied that he probably would because it was only 2 years away, but that
he and his wife were going to start a family soon and he'd have to see.

The reporter asked How soon they were going to start a family and jansen's wife
answered "Tonight."



Now that's pressure :-)



Metz

    Tonya Harding is the product of relative poverty and her mother has
    been married 5-6 times.  Harding swore out sexual abuse charges against
    one of her stepbrothers because the guy tried to get fresh with her. 
    This move sort of alienated her from her mother.  Harding is married
    and a few months ago left her husband because he was supposedly hitting
    her.  That's patched up now.
    
    Harding plays pool, hunts, fishes, does her own car repairs and goes
    drag racing in her Jeep.
    
    She isn't your typical female figure skater.  Heck, she's probably more
    macho than most of the male figure skaters.
    
    John

Hell, he's probably only 4th best at that too.....8^)

    enough of this drivel :-) what is the score of those hockey games?
    
    The Crazy Met
    

>    Harding plays pool, hunts, fishes, does her own car repairs and goes
>    drag racing in her Jeep.
>    
>    She isn't your typical female figure skater.  Heck, she's probably more
>    macho than most of the male figure skaters.
    
I wanna party wif dat girl!


'Saw

RE Tomba:
Be careful about generalizations about 'Mercins vs Europeans -- There's a lot 
of difference between the various breeds of Europeans too. I doubt you'd find a
German with the outward exuberance or boastfulness (it isn't *LOGICAL* to boast
cause you *might* lose).  

Tomba's attitude is more due to being Italian than anything else. It's hard to 
'splain, but from having spent 3 weeks there in '90 and 2 other trips there in 
'82 and '84, I got a certain sense of the national character. The people there 
are sports-crazy, and after soccer, skiing is #1. Also, it isn't every day that 
a lot of European countries have gold medal shoo-ins in EVERY sport like the 
Americans :-) Sure, certain countries do better at certian events. [Norway = 
great in XC skiing, stink in hockey. Switz.= good in downhill, stink in hockey.
Sweden = good in hockey, but that's it.] Italy's hockey team is mediocre at best, and they may have a few 
other skiiers and a couple of middle of the pack skaters, but that's it. Just a 
guess, but I'd say Tomba is the only REAL hope they have of winning any kind of 
hardware, so naturally the whole country is behind him. The Savoie region is 
just across the border from Italy (and even used to be PART of Italy at one 
time), so you can bet there are a lot of Paesano to cheer Alberto on.

It isn't a shock that CBS is showing Tomba in all his glory. Since they've 
resigned themselves to these useless "profiles" can you BLAM ! them for focusing
on a guy with personality, instead of some boring Swiss who lives the simple 
life in his peaceful mountain village and milks the cows with his grandma every
morning, even if he IS a world-class skier?

Tom  

Unified Team beat Finland today, but I don't have the score....


My mom called to tell me that.  Also, she asked if I knew anything about
the 36 Red Sox tickets that mysteriously appeared in her mailbox today?


'Saw

>Be careful about generalizations about 'Mercins vs Europeans -- There's a lot 
>of difference between the various breeds of Europeans too. I doubt you'd find a
>German with the outward exuberance or boastfulness (it isn't *LOGICAL* to boast
>cause you *might* lose).  

YES!  Ain't that the truth.

For what it's worth, and without going down a rathole, I found the
Germans to be the most outgoing people that I met in Europe.

The French obviously don't like Americans, but I always tried to be
polite so as not to give them any more reason not to.

Never had much contact with the Italians, but I do have a question.
How is it that the Hubers, Italians, speak german, have German names,
yet live in Italy?  Does it have something to do with the sometimes
"shifting" european borders?????


'Saw

    Olympic Musings -
    
    Metz - great note about CBC coverage.  If you get sick of CBS, the CBC
    has a show on from 7-10 whichis highlights of the day's action - and
    they show almost all sports - and not a lot of personal stuff.  And the
    non sports stuff they had on was pretty interesting - one bit was on
    the different waxes the skiers use.  
    
    The biathlon - yes the USA has a team - but we aren't that good, so CBS
    won't show it.  ANd to me that's the crying shame.   We hear the lip
    service about the 'spirit of the Olympics' and CBS can show Morocan
    skiers taking 2 days to fall downhill - but they won't show Americans
    competing in sports we don't excel at - like the Biathlon.  Too bad.
    Personally I like the Biathlon.
    
    The bobsled is an event I've always liked.  ALways wanted to try the
    old flexible flier down the track.  I do realize I'd end up in traction
    (at best) but I can have a "Calvin and Hobbes" attack whenever I
    want...   CBC had a piece where they showed a bobsled from the ground
    up - took it apart - pretty interesting.
    
    Nobody passes the puck like the Unified Team.  Eric Lindros is a stud. 
    LeBlanc is playing great - lets hope he does't turn into Jim Craig, the
    Sequel.  
    
    Cross Country skiing is my favorite of this Olympics.  I'd love to be
    at that venue partying with the Scandanavians.  Heck, the Hawkster
    would be in heaven with those dudes.
    
    SKi Jumping Rules!  Them Austrian FLy BOys and the punk from Finland
    are something to behold.  
    
    Figure Skating.   They should have kept the compulsories.   Let em show
    cleavage and bunnage.  Let the men wear shorts. Who cares?  We're
    talking ice skating.  Heck, half of 'em will go on to wear Pluto
    costumes and perform in arenas with the Ice Capades.   I'm probably the
    only person who misses DIck BUtton.  He was a constant.
    
    Downhill is skiing, IMO.  Give me Klammer time everytime.   The slalom
    is purty darn good - and Alberto Tomba is the best.  No doubt about it.
    Moguls.  Yuch.  Freestyle.  Yuch.   They should have snow-fort building
    too....
    
    I like both the winter and summer games - but I like the winter games
    because the smaller countries are heard from more often.  Luxumborg won
    a medal.  Leichenstein won a gold once!  In the summer games, you get
    some smaller country folks (Nesty from Surinam, Virin and co. from
    Finland, various African runners...) but not the mix you get in the
    winter games.  The fans seem more lively - probably cuz they are
    standing around in the snow and cold all day - gotta sing and party to
    stay warm.
    
    Curling is cool.  Used to watch it in years gone by.  Always wanted to
    be a broom person.   Even technology has caught up with curling - they
    use high tech brooms, no more straw ones.  ;-(
    
    I hope I'm still in Seattle for Barcelona, so I can watch the summer
    games on Canadien TV.
    
    Speaking of TV, the CBC had a bit on about TV and the Olympics.  CBS
    pays more for the Olympics than just about everyone else combined. 
    They will lose about 30 million.  The CBC guys said PPV, cable, and
    free TV in combination will be the wave of the future in the states. 
    Other coutries will continue one channel feeds (such as the BBC to the
    UK...)
    
    JD  

    You're right, Tom, about the generalization.  Wasn't thinking- got
    about *36* different things on my mind today...
    
    I also didn't want to single any nationality out either, but since it's
    been said, yes, I think it's Italian nature to be outwardly emotional,
    passionate, whatever...
    
    Hawk
    

    Unified Team beat Finland 6-1.
    Sweden and Czechoslovakia (sp?) are tied 1-1 in the 2nd.
    
    In figure skating the top 4 after the original program are
    
    Yamaguchi
    Kerrigan
    Ito
    Harding
    
    Both Ito and Harding fell on a triple.
    
    CBS has decided to show the hockey game between the US and the Unified
    Team live starting at 11AM Eastern time tomorrow.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    This is intended totally to be a tongue-in-cheek reply
    
    CBS's decision not to show US athletes in events where we're not
    very good is based on their insistence that every US of A person
    is, by birthright, supposed to, and is entitled to an Olympic
    Gold medal.
    
    If'n they don't show it, obviously it doesn't exist.
    
    right?
    
    Kev
    

Re German-Italians

Saw

I dunno if they speak German, but this must be near the Swiss border. In a lot
of ways, it's just like anywhere where people move around. People in Napoli say
the Milanesee are not "real" Italians, but Germans (dunno the reasoning) The 
Milan folks call the Neopolitans something else - unprinable in this "family" 
conference. In '84 went to a Inter Milan vs Napoli soccer game and a banner was 
strung across the upper deck "Stop laboratory experiments with animals - use 
Neopolitans instead!"

The Luxumbourg skier, Ghiradelli (sp) has an Italian name, but in Luxumbourg the 
Offical language is French, but more peole seem to speak this blend of 
low-German that sounds a little like the Flemish (Dutch) dialects spoken in 
Belgium. Go figure.

Tom

    >CBS has decided to show the hockey game between the US and the Unified
    >Team live starting at 11AM Eastern time tomorrow.
    

That's Friday, just in case anyone is starting to develop a fever  ;^)    

Scott

>The Luxumbourg skier, Ghiradelli (sp) has an Italian name, but in Luxumbourg the 
>Offical language is French, but more peole seem to speak this blend of 
>low-German that sounds a little like the Flemish (Dutch) dialects spoken in 
>Belgium. Go figure.

Well, I could understand it in parts of central Europe.

My mom's parent came from Hungary, yet the spoke German, and their name
was a Norwegian name.   Ditto on the go figure...


'Saw 

    Kev -
    
    I know (I think I know) that part of that was tongue-in-cheek.  But it
    isn't far from the truth.  When an American finishes back in the pack,
    they usually get their finish quickly shown in a list on the TV screen,
    and the announcer does a quick "Joe Blow was 40th in the 10K biathlon"
    
    And that's it.  I may be beating the daid horse, but compare it to the
    CBC which actually would *show* Joe BLow performing, and explain his
    finish in terms you can understand.  For instance "That 40th place
    finish is Blow's highest finish ever in international competition!"
    
    Puts in in perspective.   By just posting finishes, it conveys the idea
    that either the athlete had a bad day - when in fact they may have had
    a GREAT day - or that the athlete is plain horrible. 
    
    Off my soapbox.
    
    JD

    solution to the go figure
    
    
    Da mailman was frequently transferred?  Or was it the milkman?
    
    HalTriedHard(tm)
    
    Kev
    

> My mom's parent came from Hungary, yet the spoke German, and their name
> was a Norwegian name.   Ditto on the go figure...

    Same here, 'Saw.  My mom's parents came from Hungary (one of my aunts 
    was born over there) but her maiden was Fabi, which is Italian as far as 
    I know.  My aunts and uncles on her side did speak Hungarian, though.
    
    
    Joe      

    JD, you actually liked the figure skating compulsories, or you're just
    so jaded towards figure skating in general that you're saying this?
    
    I can understand the figure skaters who say that the current skaters who 
    aren't required to do them are missing something (although if they're so
    important I don't understand why they can't just incorporate a
    technical requirement to skate larger figures, in a less rigid fashion, 
    as part of the opening program), but you've got to admit as far as all 
    but the most experienced spectator was concerned they were a total 
    non-event that knocked many of the best competitors out of the running
    before anyone got a chance to see them...
    
    glenn
     

    Glenn -
    
    No, I like them.  Because IMO, it made the skaters be all-around
    skaters - now the basics, plus the spins and axels, and the like.
    I'm into technique, and the compulories showed technique.  Seems that
    by canning them, they pushed the 'sport' to become the sole domain of
    little pixies that can spin around fast.   
    
    JD

    CBS in one segment mentioned that Brian Orser in 1988 and Linda
    Frantiane (sp?) in 1980 both won the original and free skate which
    counted for 70% of the score but lost because of the compulsories.
    Something is not quite right when you win 70% of the cometition, but
    don't win the event.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Glenn,
    
    Since many of the "best competitors" were knocked out early,
    wouldn't you agree that they weren't the "best competitors"?
    
    How about we substitite "big names" instead?
    
    Kev
    

    TCM -
    
    Nothing wrong with that.  Seems to me that they may have 'won' the
    other two parts - but only by a little, while the others were strong in
    all facets of skating - which, IMO, is how it should be.  Perhaps
    someone can do triples all day long - but can't skate a clean line. 
    Give me someone who can skate the compulsories and do the axels and
    stuff.  Multi dimensional.  No 'James Worthy' figure skaters.  ;-)
    
    JD

    Putting it another way - if the hockey team wins 70% of a game, but
    loses in the final score.  They still lose.

    > Since many of the "best competitors" were knocked out early,
    > wouldn't you agree that they weren't the "best competitors"?
    >
    > How about we substitite "big names" instead?
    
    Yeah, okay, "best competitors as far as anyone could tell by watching"
    was what I meant.  I understand that all of the events could be held in
    a vacuum for argument's sake and it'd still be "sport", but at some 
    point if there's no interest an event ceases to be important to all but 
    the competitor.  I'd venture a guess that 99% of all spectators knew who 
    the best compulsory figure skater was only because they took someone's 
    word for it...
    
    It really should be a separate event, if anything.  The disciplines are
    so far separated that I can't see deciding a "figure skating champion"
    on the basis of combining them.  Apparently the powers that be agreed. 
    
    glenn
    

You wanna talk all around...check out the nordic combined events (whoops did 
CBS bother to show them) I think they showed short clips of the jumping....You
have to ski jump and your jumping ability equates to seconds in your X-C 
starting time. They stagger the X-C time based on jumping ability and then the 
first guy across the line wins....

Now those dudes are all-around athletes.....Incredible technique required for
the jumping and incredible fitness for the X-C events. The US dudes were in 
4th place in the team combined after the jumping but got blown away in the X-C
(as was expected) One guy on the team is only 17 and most of the team comes 
from Norwich Vt. They looked like they were out there having a good time and
enjoying the competition. The true spirit of the Olympics.....

Psyched I get to see an hour of the US game friday before work. Good decision
on CBS part to show the whole game live. 

Ready for the night on the dancing pixies tonight (actually got 6 hours from
today taped via CBC) anybody know the address to CBC? I gotta write them a letter
thanking them for the coverage of the games....

JD..did you see that sprint to the finnish in the 40k relay last night for 3rd
place.....yee-haaaaa

Metz

    
    Metz -
    
    The finnish ( I like the typo, if you meant it!) of the relay was
    great!  In fact, that was a great race all around. 
    
    The Nordic combined - the Japanese were something.  
    
    Back to the relay - Torgny Mogren of Sweden is one of the hard-luck
    guys of these Olympics.  He's been close in almost every event - but
    keeps coming up short.  IN the pursuit race, he came from behind to
    finish a close 5th.   
    
    Second the motion on CBC - I'll see if I cain dig up the address
    somewhere.
    
    JD

    I'm seriously jealous of those of you with access to the CBC coverage. 
    It sounds wonderful, and like exactly what this Olympics junkie *wants*
    to be getting.  :-(
    
    I wonder what it would cost for a bunch of us to rent a place up near
    Montreal for the duration of the summer games, so we don't have to put
    up with NBC's price gouging cable coverage and/or repeat of the CBS
    experience?  :-)
    
    A&W

    re .338
    >In figure skating the top 4 after the original program are
    
    >Yamaguchi
    >Kerrigan
    >Ito
    >Harding
    
    I believe Bonaly is 3rd, Ito 4th, Harding 6th last I heard...

    re: .358
    
    That means that Ito has to win the free skate and Yamaguchi has to come
    in no better than 3rd for Ito to win the Gold. 
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       I think Hal has a dish, we cain all go to his house for the Summer
    games! or was it Groaner? We'd have to watch the Spots pre-season
    games as part of the package though!
                                          Denny  8^o

    With the proliferation of nations new to bobsledding, I'm sure many out
    there have "second favorites", be they the Jamaicans, Irish,
    Netherlands Anthillians, Puerto Ricans (glad to hear that their two man
    team wasn't seriously hurt in that horrendous accident), whoever. 
    Well, the team besides the Americans I'll be pulling for in the 4-man
    is Lithuania's Baltic neighbor Latvia...their two man teams finished a
    respectable 14th and 15th (ahead of the second American sled among
    others).   Is top 10 too much to hope for?
    
    
    py

What's the deal with Walker.  Any more on that story?????


'Saw

>What's the deal with Walker.  Any more on that story?????

Inexperience.  The driver wanted the alternate, who has more experience (and is 
the guy's buddy), and the coaches relented.  Walker was interviewed and seemed 
to indicate he was ok with the decision, but there was a small hint of 
bitterness in his voice IMO.

Scott

QUARTERFINALS*	      SEMI-	    FINALS***
		      FINALS**
1 Canada (4-1-0)
--------------------    
4 Germany (2-3-0)   | CANADA 3-3 (OT+, CANADA wins shootout 3-2 on 7 shots)
		     >---------- Friday, 3pm    
2 Sweden (3-0-2)    | CZECH 3-1 |
--------------------		|
3 Czech (4-1-0)			| 
				 >-------- Sunday, 8:15am-> WINNER GETS THE GOLD
1 USA (4-0-1)			| 
-------------------- 		|
4 France (2-3-0)    | USA 4-1   |
                     >---------- Friday, 11am
2 EUN (4-1-0)       | EUN 6-1
--------------------
3 Finland (3-1-1)

* losers play bracket for 5th-8th place
** losers play for Bronze Medal on Saturday, 3pm
*** loser receives Silver Medal

    Nit picking from a few back.  Ito fell on a relatively easy triple
    Lutz, forgoing the triple axel attempt.  
    
    the two French skaters, while performing clean program, weren't
    particularly dynamic, yet their scores across the board were
    impressive.  (thus lessening the obvious 'partisan judgment' elements)
    
    I leave it to those who saw Harding skate, but were they that much
    better than she to bump her back to 6th place?  Did she make a mistake
    other than on the triple axel?  It seemed to me that the two French
    skaters were't exceptionally artistic or spectacularly technical, but
    you'd have thought so from their scores.  Were the other skaters just
    less mundane?
    
    
    kim

       Sled driver had a good point though. He's got a pusher who busts his
    butt for months to get the sled qualified for the Olympics, only to have
    a Johnnie-come-lately 'star' athlete bump him off the team. I'd want
    the 'guy who got me there' on the team too.
                                          Denny

Walker may be good someday, but I think his performance in the
2man competition shows that all the power and speed in the world
are nothing without technique...

'Saw

    The other aspect about Walker, and what was apparently the final nail
    in the coffin, was that he made a major error on getting into the sled
    during the training run.  He's been making technique mistakes at the
    end of the push all along, but the one yesterday was apparently one too
    many for the driver.
    
    Does anyone know if TNT will be able to broadcast the hockey game
    tomorrow, since CBS is carrying it live?  I gotta figure out which
    channel to tape, and because of how my VCR & cable are set up, I can't
    tape both :-(.
    
    A&W

    TNT cannot broadcast the hockey game. They can broadcast stuff that CBS
    is not planning on showing. So don't expect to see the Women's Figure
    Skating on TNT in the afternnon either.
    
    The Crazy Met

    When CBS did that lead-in to the women's figure skating I thought I was
    gonna barf.  
    
    I thought that piece they did on WWII was pretty interesting.  Didn't
    have a damm thing to do with the Olympics, but it was interesting. 
    
    
    Joe

    Just called CBC here in Ottawa.  They say that the Olympic Coverage is
    handled by Sports Weekend in Toronto.  You can write to them at the
    following address:
    
    	Sports Weekend
    	P.O. Box 500
    	Station "A"
    	Toronto, Ontario
    	M5W 1E6
    
    Hearing all these compliments for our canadian coverage makes me want
    to write them a thank you letter.
    
    Mike B.

RE:  back there someplace

	JD, you're not the only one who misses Dick Button!  He
is [er, ah, WAS] a staple of the Winter Olympics, with his figure
skating commentary.  He has the ability to comment on the
action without detracting from it, explain the technical points the
judges look for, and clearly expressed his love for the sport and
admiration for a good, clean performance.  It's not the same without
him. :-(

	We now return you to your regular noting....

MAC2

PS  Go USA Hockey!!

    Button is very good, but there has always been something that rubbed me
    the wrong way with his presentation. Hamilton talks way too much. If
    Tracy Wilson gets some more experience I think she could be better than
    either Button or Hamilton.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Anybody know the overall standings for the women's figure skaters?
    Yamaguchi (sp?) and Kerrigan are 1st and 2nd for last night's short
    program, but where do they fall in total?
    
    
    
    Cath

    Cath, that is where they fall now since the short program was the first
    thing skated.  The French skater is 3rd, Ito 4th and Harding 6th.
    
    John

    Great!  Now I can write to friggin' CBC and tell 'em that they show way
    too much action and that they should emulate CBS's riveting fluff
    pieces.
    
    Hawk
    

      If the short program was 1st, when's the 3rd part if the long is
    tomorrow?
                                     Denny

    re .377:
    
    There aren't any compulsories anymore, just the short program (which
    counts for 1/3 of the mark) and the long program (which counts 2/3).
    
    
    py

You're a funny guy qwak :-)

thanks for the CBC address....


I dunno about last night....I think the judges were way to lenient with Ito. 
Personally I thought her program stunk. I thought a couple of the skaters from
other countries (not shown on CBS ..just for you squawk:-) had better routines. 
One canadian skater was flawless and ended up ranked 12th. Neither of the
french skaters really impressed me. 

I'm glad hoo-show isn't pushing the 4 man sled. I've got this old fashioned
notion about paying you dues I guess. If Hoo-show wants to push a bob sled
I want to see him out on the world cup circuit with the other guys.....

Eddie the eagle made $400,000 the year after the olympics. Almost all of it from
personel appearances money. I think I'll take up ski jumping....

There has to be something wrong with a sport when the person that falls gets
judged higher than someone that doesn't.

The only judege I agreed with all night was the british judge who had Ito 6th
and some other skater that fell 8th.

Speed skiing is one crazy sport. The one guy that wiped must have slid for 1/2
a mile down the course....

I really wanted to see who made the skates for al the Olympians...NOT!....
$400 a pair 

I did enjoy Charles Kuralt's piece on captain Ortiz and his paratroopers though.

Men's 40k Biathalon today. 

Watched an interview this morning with the canadian that won the bronze in the
womens biathalon. She is from Quebec and was asked if she would ski for Quebec
or Canada in the next Olympics if Quebec seceeds from Canada. She said she skis
for herself not any country......good answer I thought....

Why is DEC stock going up?


Metz

    What song was that Harding skated too?  I swear it sounded like
    "People are still having sex..." but I wasn't sure...
    

    USA-Unified Team hockey game is on WEEI radio, and CBS.
    
    Updates appreciated.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       I'm leaving at lunchtime. I'll do updates if I get home in time.
                                     Denny

Metz, 

Yeah, that speed skiing is a riot. I couldn't believe they were going 140 MPH, 
but then agin, they were going down a 45 degree mountain, without making any 
turns. How 'bout that skiier who lost a ski, but contunied down the course on
1 ski before eventually falling. And I thougt you had to be nuts to do the 
bobsled/luge..

I gotta agree with you on the scorig of the figure skating. Not tht I know much
about it, but it seems that they are being judged more on reputation than 
actual performance. Harding tried a more difficult jump and missed, Ito tried 
and missed an easier one, but got the higher score. Go figure. Scott Hamilton 
said that the judges saw all the practe sessions and thought that Ito had 
stronger practices, so that's why she was given a break. OK, maybe this is the 
equivalent of a "rookie foul" in the NBA, but maybe I'm crazy thinking that 
practice is for working out the kinks and doesn't count, and the main event is 
what matters.

Hmmm...Suppose other sports were run this way. I can see it now. "Carolina 
deserves to win the national title, even though the other team scored more 
points in the final, because they were hitting more shots at practice. They 
also recruited more "blue chip" HS All-Americas and Dean's "system" is also far 
superior to Whatsamatta U's run-and-gun playground style, so that also is taken 
into consideration..."

Tom

    There was one piece I saw on CBS that was an interview with a judge. 
    She said the international politics are going out of the judging but
    the skaters who have established reputations have the better shots. 
    Strictly speaking, in order to go up the judging ladder and get to
    judge at events like the Olympics, your judgments have to pretty much
    agree with everyone else's judgments.  In other words, if a complete
    unknown was to skate the performance of his/her life in a finals and it
    absolutely blew your socks off, you'd still have to mark that person
    below where you think the established people are going to be since the
    chances are the established people will skate better - or the other
    judges will mark those people better.  In other words, judges have to
    figure out what their colleagues are going to do and mark accordingly
    and not by what they actually feel.  There is a disadvantage in going
    first also since you will be marked lower so there can be room to mark
    someone who may be better higher.
    
    Skaters accept the system and understand they have to establish
    themselves and wait their turns, but it doesn't mean we have to like
    it.  I think the best thing to do is not do any judging until after all
    the competitors have skated, although they should watch the competitors
    live from soundproof booths) and then watch them on replay (no noise,
    either, so there won't be a crowd influence) afterward and then rank
    them.  There are 2 categories - artistic impression and technical merit
    - and give the best person in the category the 6.0, next best 5.9 and
    so forth.  They should do it the same way in gymnastics, synchronized
    swimming and any other sport where it's subjective.
    
    John

    
    	5:26 into the 1st period and the score is 0-0.  US is on a
    	power play
    
    	Claybroon

    
    	At about the 1/2 way point of the 1st, the score is 1-0 in favor
    	of the Unified Team.
    
    	Claybroon

    
    Regardless of the politics that may go on, by my untrained eye I 
    don't believe that Tonya Harding was unfairly judged.  Keep in mind 
    that Harding is a former US champion and World Championship runner-up.
    The French girl who is currently ranked fifth is just about a complete
    unknown.  To a lesser extent, so is the other French girl Bonaly, in 
    the third spot.
    
    I know that a lot of us have expressed dissatisfaction with any sport 
    which has a high degree of subjectiveness in its judging (in some cases
    to the point of refusing to even deem it worthy of the label "sport").  
    I disagree.  Figure skating requires plenty of athleticism, more than 
    say shooting or something like that which has a high degree of 
    objectivity in its scoring.  That shouldn't be the standard.  Hell,
    even in team sports like basketball and football, when we try to rate
    individual performers, qualities like grace and style and power 
    inevitably enter into our assessments.  With figure skating,
    individualism is all there is so that's just the way it is. 
    
    I wasn't impressed by Ito or Harding not even considering their falls, 
    to tell you the truth (so I suppose it's fair to debate their relative
    rankings based on the difficulty of the failed jumps, etc., but since
    their both effectively out of the running for the gold it's somewhat
    secondary).  Yamaguchi and Kerrigan were clearly both more graceful and 
    cleaner in the jumps that were successful, and the marks reflected it...
    
    glenn
                         

    
    	About 1 minute later......the US HAS SCOOOOOOOOOOOORED!  It's
    	tied 1-1!
    
    	Claybroon

    Commonwealth of Independent Beanpotters 1
    Commonwealth of Independent Soviets    1

    
    	Still in the 1st, the UT has scored and leads 2-1.
    
    	Claybroon

    To whom it may concern:
    
      I am tapping the hockey game to watch it when I get home.
    When you update the score could you put it in after a form
    feed.  Thank you.
    
    Jerry

    
    	Keep the updates comming!  We can't pick up the game here.....
    
    	Any fights yet?  How was the score made?  Who made the score?
    
    	How much time is left?
    
    

    
    Hal, two Russian, oops Unified guys scored and one American guy
    scored.  End of one.
    
    				/Don

    
    kinda figgers a cleveland fan's 1st question about a hockey game is
    "any fights yet?"
    
    Brews

    
    	Geez, try to do everybody a favor.........  
    
    	Hey Slash, can you update the rest of the game?  I'm swamped
    	here.
    
    	Claybroon

                                            
    Ballet is also more a "sport" than rifle shooting, in my opinion. 
    There are both artistic elements and athletic elements to it.  With 
    figure skating, ballet and even gymnastics, the debate should be 
    whether the athletic element is sufficient to be deemed sport (not 
    whether or not the judging is subjective).  You may be right that 
    ballet wouldn't meet that standard, but I think figure skating, with 
    its extremely difficult technical jumps, does...
    
    glenn
    

    psst,
    
    (set mode low whisper)
    
    Dickstah's got a tee vee over @ his office)
    
    Did somebody say he called a meeting there starting now?????
    
    
    hth,
    Kev
    
    

    which building does dickstah live in??
    
    Kev, if you can get WEEI it is being broadcast there.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    TcM,
    
    D'dickstah's at MRO2
    
    I got tee vee sound instead.  AM signal no good here @MROFo'
    Audio announcers are pretty good, or at least good enuf.
    
    Kev
    

    
    If you don't want no hcokey info, skip this note:
    
    
    
    
    Right now, it is still 2-1, but the USA is being outplayed.  From the
    radio, it also seems the US has been given some benefit from the refs -
    but the Soviets are skating rings around them.  LeBlanc is keeping the
    USA in it - if they don't wake up, they won't be seeing any gold...
    
    JD

       Updtae
    US  2
    Them 2

    If anyone in the 3M area is taping the game, I'd be interested in
    proposing a swap.
    
    I am taping the TNT coverage this afternoon.  I expect that they will
    have the Canada-Chezch game.  After I've had an opportunity to watch
    that tape, and you have had an opportunity to watch the US-Unified Team
    game, can I borrow your tape in exchange for mine?
    
    
    While at the Army-Holy Cross basketball game last weekend, some of
    those present lamented that the Army cheerleaders weren't there.  It
    was pointed out that they might not be interested in going on road
    trips with a team with Army's record (the men have won 2 games all 
    season).  Perhaps they were back on campus supporting wrestling, where
    the team is at least competitive........
    
    Or the rifle team, where they are among the NCAA leaders.  :-)  Cain't
    you jest picksher cheerleaders at a shooting match  :-)
    
    A&W

    
    Beware:  Update:
    
    
    
    
    the USA just scored to make it 2-2.  A power play.  They had just kilt
    a EUN power play and then started to swarm.
    
    The US, however, just took a penalty.  the shots in the 2nd period are
    19-3 in favor of the EUN.
    
    JD

    A&W,
    
    I am taping the US-Unified Team game. You can borrow my tape whenever.
    
    
    It would be great if it was US-Canada in the final. Hey we might even
    get a fight :-)
    
    Who scored for the US?? Was the 2nd goal lucky or did the US start
    playing hockey??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Update
    2 big saves by Leblanc
    US  gets penalty at end of 2nd
    Still 2-2
                                Denny

    re: .408
    
    Incredible in terms of shots on goal. Actually US has been outshot by
    plenty in lots of games. Just goes to show you what a hot goaltender
    can do for a team. Hope they keep swarming. Its out to my car fior the
    3rd period - well maybe.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
    	There has been 2 shots off LeBlanc's mask and 2 others that
    	have hit the crossbar.  Whew!
    
    Claybroon

    Fantastic game so far.....US has been really outplayed, but somehow
    it's still 2-2.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

    So you guys have a TV up there too, huh Glenn?
    
    Joe

    Well, ain't nobody gonna tell us how great the CBC feed was yesterday? 
    We're all just dyin' to hear it... :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    did any events take place yesterday?? :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Hawk -
    
    The CBC showed the biathlon, and did a great job at it.  
    
    They had an ad on CBC for 36 Sox tickets...
    
    JD

    A little surprised that shots on goal favor the Unified Team by such a
    high percentage.  I remember Soviet teams of past years passing around
    the puck forever, until they got a chance for a real high percentage
    shot...the idea being that one real *quality* shot was worth passing up
    3-4 lesser chances for.
    
    Big concern I have heading into the 3rd is that the Americans stay out
    of the penalty box...Unified Team had converted on 37% of their power
    play chances heading into today's game.
    
    
    py

    I happened to catch the 3000m relay speedskating final.  It was not at
    all what I expected it to be.  I thought it would work the same way as
    a 4 X 100 metre relay run.  Now I know why they say it looks like
    roller derby.  You'd think the skaters would get dizzy.  I did.
    
    Canada took Gold  and the US took the Silver.
    
    The Canadian women's relay team has only lost a race twice since 1983.
    
    Amazing.

    
    
    
           Wow went down to the local watering hole for the second period
    with crazy AL(hiccup). What a game US is being seriously outplayed but
    LeBlanc is keeping us in it. The 2 off the mask and head were hard slap
    shots, this guy is great, need updates......

    
    
    UPDATE coming:
    
    
    
    
    the EUN just scored a PPG, making it 3-2.
    
    The EUN has hit the post *3* times so far.  LeBlanc has been great.
    
    JD

    update 
    
    
    
    UT has had 6 power play chances so far in  the game.  I believe they
    have had 45 shots on goal to the US's 13-14?  US had 3 power plays.
    
    Kev
    

    
    
    ANother UPDATE:
    
    
    
    
    The EUN just  scored again - beautiful passing moves - 4-2.
    
    They EUN is still skating around like crazy.  5:52 left
    
    JD

    update
    
    
    
    UT - 4
    US - 2
    
    'bout 5:50 left
    

Watched the first two periods at home (on CBC, less commercials) :-)

the us was so totally outplayed it was amazing.....Man those Unified team
members can skate and pass. The US guys were dumping the puck a lot just to 
get out of trouble. US only had 1 3-2 break the whole 2nd period. Leblanc is so
hot right now it's incredible. He's taken a couple of shots off the head and
face mask.

The unifieders deserve to win this game but the US might squeak out a victory if
they get a few lucky breaks....

Lots of short track speed skating last night as well as the womens slalom.
Julie Parisien fell from 1st to 4th in the 2nd run for the US. The US womens
relay team took the silver in short track....

Not much else......


Metz

    
    ANother Update:
    
    
    
    
    US just took a slashing penalty.  EUN on the power play.  They have to
    kill this, or it is bleak..
    
    EUN is 1-6 on PP.
    
    JD

    
    
    ANother Update:
    
    
    
    
    EUN hit the post again.  And, with 3:43 left the US just took ANOTHER 
    penalty.  They seem to be wilting under the pressure...
    
    Total shots:  51-17 EUN.
    
    JD

    
    update
    
    
    
    US is playing with 2 men in the penalty box.
    
    It was a nice ride folks but the lady's getting ready to sing.
    
    Kev
    

    Another Update:
    
    
    
    
    EUN with another PPG  5-2 now.   2 man advantage.
    
    They are still on the PP.
    
    JD

    
    update
    
    
    
    
    UT - 5
    US-  2
    
    

    
    
          &^%^^%&%^%#$^#&*&^*^&*^*&*^&%^%$^##$%
     son of a *(^*(%%$^#@^&*U*Y^%^$#$%@$@%#%$&&*&
    
    God Da(&&^$$%$%$%#$%#$@$!@#@#$@#$@$!!$~!!!@@@
    
        Pisses me off......*(&*(^%^&*%^&*%^$&$%^#$%^##$@@#$#$@#$

    It's Over:
    
    
    
    
    5-2 EUN.   They outplayed the USA thoroughly.  They really peppered
    LeBlanc - and he kept the US in the game for 2 1/2 periods - but after
    that it was just too much.  Don't know what the final shots were, but
    the EUN had about 35 more shots on goal.
    
    Bronze medal game tomorrow night vs. Canadiens or Czechs.
    
    I'm hoping for a EUN-Canada final...
    
    JD

    Is CBS broadcasting the Canadian Czech game today?
    
    Glenn

    
    SKp this if you don't want any info:
    
    
    
    
    No one should be too p-ed about this loss.  The US played incredibly
    well this Olympics.  Before the games, no one gave them much of a
    chance.  I  assumed Sweden, EUN and Canada would be the medalists.  I
    though Finland might sneak in.   The US had a nice run, and it will be
    GRAVY if they can get the bronze.   The US and the Czechs were the 
    two surprise teams of the final four.  
    
    JD

    
    
    
            Yeah I'm not mad at the team just wanted to see the US wearing
    gold again. Great Tournament all around, these guys got alot of heart.
    
           Go Bronze......
    
                          Chappy.....

I may be wrong, but the EUN team (or whatever you wanna call them)
plays together a lot more than our team, no?

It looked like a college team trying to play last sesaon's Penguins....


'Saw

    You have to give these US kids credit. They played their hearts and
    souls out throughout this thing. Leblanc has been immense the Unified
    team must have had 50+ shots and another 20 + quality shots sail wide.
    The Unified team just swarmed. I hope the US can rebound to capture the
    bronze they are deserving of a medal. They came together in this
    olympics, with the pressure put on the squad they responded adamantly.
    Tough coming back, being down 1-2 players in the stretch.
    
    
    Mike
    
    

	My satellite dish picks up the Bulgarian Broadcasting System (B.B.S.)
and they are doing an excellent job with their Olympic broadcasts.  First 
they show the events when *I* want to watch them, live and at 4:15 in the 
morning.  Second they tend to cover the less glamorous events like the 
Minature Ice Fishing Derby (non-medal event) and the Super Heavyweight Two 
Man Bobsled races (300 lbs. and up).  Wednesday morning at 3:45 they showed 
the finals of the Minature Ice Fishing Derby (M.I.F.D.), and to watch these 
tiny competitors braving the elements to get their quota of minnows and 
sardines, crystallizes what to me the Olympic ideal should be.

	Also this morning they had the time trials for the Super 
Heavyweight Two Man Bobsled at 2:17, and the Japanese team of Sumo Wrestlers 
look to be the heavy favorites, but it must be awful cold going downhill in 
those diapers. Does anybody know the address of the B.B.S. so I can write 
them and congratulate their outstanding coverage of the Olympics?

			      	/Don

	/Don and Bob Dylan ---  Brothers in 'Shroomage

Will there be a EUN (Unified) team in future olympics?  With the
break up of the former Soviet Union, will the indepentant countries
be allowed to pool their talent and participate as a single team?
Will this be the up to the IOC?

Curious,

Jerry

    Heard the last 10 minutes of US-Unified game. US was totally outplayed,
    only LeBlanc kept it close for so long.
    
    Update on Czech-Canada game
    
    
    
    Canada 1 - Czech 0 in the first
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    update
    
    
    
    2-0 Canda still in the 1st
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    Is Juneau getting any of the goals?

    More on US-EUN game:
    
    
    
    
    I second what's been said about LeBlanc - if it wasn't for him EUN 
    probably would've scored 8-10 goals.
    
    EUN's 4th goal was a thing of beauty - great passing.  Their last goal
    was pretty nice also - the guy who scored it did kind of like a 
    give-and-go.
    
    Whether it's Canada or the Czech's, the US team will have a tough one
    just to win the bronze.  But for them to have a shot at a medal at this
    point in the Olympics is great.
    
    
    Joe

    More on US-EUN game:
    
    
    
    
I can't help but think that if this Olmypics was played the old way, 
with the US carrying their points into the medal round, they'd 
still be in the hunt....


LeBlanc surely will land a tenure in the NHL on the basis of his play
this Olympics....


'Saw

    > LeBlanc surely will land a tenure in the NHL on the basis of his play
    > this Olympics....
    
    'Saw, I thought I heard that the Chicago Black Hawks own LeBlanc's
    rights.
    
    
    py

    update
    
    
    
    2-2 Canada and Czech after 2. Czech had a goal disallowed, gut kicked
    the puck in. Beautiful goal, but illegal :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    >> LeBlanc surely will land a tenure in the NHL on the basis of his play
    >> this Olympics....
    
    > 'Saw, I thought I heard that the Chicago Black Hawks own LeBlanc's
    > rights.
    
    I read where they've already planned a night in his honor when he
    returns to Indianapolis of the AHL (IHL? WHL? USHL?).
    
    glenn
    

LeBlanc has already had a few stints in the NHL. Wanna know why all the EUN 
shots were hitting LeBlanc in the head today? Because everybody knows he goes
down into the butterfly too soon and the EUN team members were instructed to 
shoot high. The 2 goals I saw were both high shots stick side that went over
his shoulder. He's not a big guy and relies on quickness to stop shots. 

He'll undoubtedly get a 2nd shot as a result of his play here. Let's hope he
turns out better then Jim Craig (who btw CBs interviewed between the 1st and
2nd periods today...Jim looked hung over....)

I'd be psyched to see a Canada - EUN matchup....


Metz
  

RE: .446

He's been a career minor leaguer now in the Blackhawks system.  The Blackhawks 
GM has said they will call him up for at least one game this season.  This is 
so he can be counted as one of the players to be made avalable in the NHL 
Expansion draft this offseason - must have at least 60 minutes NHL playing 
time this season to count as a protectable player.  That way Chicago can leave 
him unprotected (each team must leave 1 - more?? - goalie unprotected) and 
keep their "big 3" goaltenders they now have.  It's their way of "giving him 
his shot" in the NHL.

Chances are you'll see him playing for Tampa or Ottawa next season, in which 
case I'm sure he'll see plenty of shots.

Scott

    updates on hockey and women figure skating
    
    
    
    Canada leads 3-2 in the 3rd
    
    Women's figure skating final standings are
    
    Yamaguchi, Ito, Kerrigan
    
    That would mean that the order in the free skate had to have been
    either
    
    Yamaguchi, Ito, Kerrigan or
    Ito, Yamaguchi, Kerrigan
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Probably the latter, TCM, ( Ito,Yamaguchi,Kerrigan)
    'Cuz Ito had a decent amount of points ta make up to pass
    Kerrigan. 
    And you now how the figure skaters' judging goes. You knew if she
    had a monster (read athletic) event, she'd probably be "graced"
    with enuf points to git a medal(i.e, pass Kerrigan)
    No sarcasm intended, because as the skaters know, dat's the name
    of dat tune in figure skating. Yamaguchi musta also nailed her
    performance. Congrats to all three. I believe Kerrigan must be
    ecstatic with the bronze. Ya think all three,plus Tonya, will be
    back in '94??
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

RE: Unified team in future Olympics

I *THINK* they wil just have a "CIS" team in the future, since that is the 
actual country. The reason they did it thai way was because the USSR's demise
happened all of a sudden, and it was too late. They don't even have a flag or
anthem, so they had to do something when they win the gold. 

The "USSR" soccer team will compete for thelast time in Sweden this summer, 
because that is the team that qualified by beating Italy, Norway, Hungary and 
Cyprus. The team is loaded with Ukranians. The USSR team used to be almost the
same team as Dynamo Kiev, so they could play together more than th other 
national teams could. The Ukranian sports bureacrats are encouraging all the 
Ukies to play for the USSR one last time. Hard to say what will happen in the
future. FIFA has several "countries" that aren't countries in the political 
sense, like Wales and Scotland. Ukraine and possibly Georgia want the same 
recognition. The only problem is that the qualifying draws have already been 
made for the 1994 WC, and the "USSR" (who will probably be just a CIS team) 
have already been drawn into a group. BTW, Latvia, Estonia & Lithuania are also
in groups, but Croatia and Slovenia are not. Also, Croat and Sloven players will
NOT pay for Yugoslavia, so....

Confused?

    re: .452
    
    Well it was Yamaguchi, Ito, Kerrigan.
    
    After the original 
    
    Yamaguchi ==  .5 points
    Kerrigan  == 1.0 points
    Ito       == 2.0 points
    
    In the free skate, Yamaguchi had 1 point, Ito, 2, Kerrigan 3.
    
    Yamaguchi ended with 1.5 points, Ito and Kerrgan both had 4 points,
    but the free skate is the tie breaker, hence the silver went to Ito.
    
    Got to see some of the exhibition skating last night, and the clown
    dance by the 2 Canadians, and Wylie&Kerrigan skating as a pair were
    lots of fun. Much more fun then the actual competition.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    re .440 & .453:
    
    According to both the Boston Globe and CBS yesterday, the "Unified
    Team" is only in effect for the 1992 games.  Starting with the 1994
    Winter Olympics, there will be separate teams of Russians, Ukranians,
    Armenians, and so on.
    
    
    py

Despite not really expecting to, and not even really wanting to, I watched
yesterday's hockey game.

I noticed something about the European officials (as opposed to the
North American officials) and as compared with NHL officials.


In watching the tournament, it seemed pretty obvious that the European
refs have a tendency to be much stricter in terms of calling a penalty
on a team that is already down a man, compared to, let's say an NHL ref.

In the NHL, if a team is down a man, it seems that they have to do something
pretty heinous to pick up another call and put them two men down.  However,
it doesn't seem to take much for a European ref to make another call.....


Just something interesting I noticed....


'Saw

    And a follow-up to my note Friday about the Latvian bobsled team --
    their two sleds finished 14th and 16th (ahead of both Unified Team
    sleds).  CBS showed Latvia II's third run on their Saturday night
    broadcast -- the Latvian sleds are made out of old Red Army tanks!
    One of the Latvia II bobsledders won a medal in 1984 while competing
    for the then-USSR.  Hopefully with some more experience and a bit better
    technology (the Latvian sled clearly wasn't as aerodynamic as those of
    the top contenders), Latvia can move up some at Lillehammer.
    
    Some other noteworthy back of the packers: Jamaica was 25th, Prince
    Albert & Co. were 27th, Mexico was 28th, and the Virgin Islands 29th.
    
    
    py                                                        

Paul, 

Where did the US finish?  I didn't have a chance to watch any of the
4 man bob competition....


'Saw

    'Saw,
    
    US was 8th and 11th.  The American start times (particularly for USA I)
    were as good as those of the medalists; now if we can just get our acts
    together on the other 52 seconds of the race...
    
    
    py

    'Saw, I think that's why the US hockey team was so upset.  In a tied
    game in the 3rd period in the NHL or college hockey, you practically
    have to commit murder to get called for a penalty.  In international
    hockey, the score is irrelevant.  You do the crime, you do the time.
    
    John

>    'Saw, I think that's why the US hockey team was so upset.  In a tied
>    game in the 3rd period in the NHL or college hockey, you practically
>    have to commit murder to get called for a penalty.  In international
>    hockey, the score is irrelevant.  You do the crime, you do the time.
    
Agreed.

I was not thrilled with that Swedish ref at all.  It's not sour grapes
because the US lost -- they were outplayed by a good CIS team.


I think that NHL refs give a team a little more latitude when they
are a man down, too.  Short of decapitating someone, or giving out
vicious two-handed slashes, it takes a lot to get called for
a second penalty when you are a man down....


'Saw

    Anybody happen to know the tune that they played during last night's
    credits?  It was instrumental, and very long.  It actually sounds like
    the intro to a song on the latest Tin Machine album that was editted to
    play over and over, but I hope that's not the case...
    
    I don't know where I read or heard this over the weekend, but look for
    corporate sponsorship in future Olympics (ie. the BF Goodrich 2-man
    Luge, Mary Kay Cosmetics Mens Figure Skating :-), etc.), just like the
    college bowl games.  Also, they finally realized that some events are
    outta control with way too many entrants, and are going to place
    limits on the numbers and also on the skill level.  Unless they're
    competitive in their respective events, people are no longer going to
    be allowed to just simply represent their countries for the fun of it
    (example given- the Jamaiican bobsledders).
    
    The complexion of the Olympics is rapidly changing, and for the worst
    IMO.  Even CBC cannot make it look any better... :-)
    
    Hawk
    

Re: .456, 460, 461

Mario Lemieux, Brett Hull and other stars would agree with you on that one. 
(Hull: "Imagine if they didn't call off. holding in the NFL becaues it was late
in the 4th quarter")
Judging by the general inconsistency of NHL refs, it's not surprising the US had
to get used to a different style. However, olympic hockey is different than NHL
hockey, which is different from NCAA and Canadian Junoir hockey. They knew there
would be adjustments to make, (larger ice surface, different style of pay, etc.)
so what's so hard to accept that the officials call 'em diferently.

Granted, they may have had a couple of questionable calls go agains them, and
sure, it was frustrating, but I thought it was a shame that Donato and the coach
were whining about the ref, and saying that since he's a Swede, he was biased 
against them. Catch the clue bus, guys! You lost because you wuz outplayed by a 
better team! The US did a LOT better than many people (including me) expected.
They had a great run, and should be proud in finishing 4th in the world. The 
Unified Team was clearly the best team this olympics, and if you gave it your 
very best, but it just wasn't enough to beat a superior team, there's nothing to 
be ashamed of.

It's too bad, because a 4th place is something they could have taken and built
uopn for the 1994 Olympics. Instead of positive memories, most people will 
remember Donato screaming ethnic insults at the ref. 

Once again, in the eyes of the rest of the world, the US comes out as whiners,
sore losers and Ugly Americans. 

Tom

    Thoughts on the games just past - of which I've watched far too much
    :-).
    
    
    My heart goes out to the athletes of the former USSR.  The looks in
    their eyes as they won, and didn't get to hear their anthem, said more
    to me about the humanness of all the competitors than anything else
    could have.  Contrast it with the eyes of the Americans and Canadians
    and French and ......
    
    The flip side, was that the jingoistic nationalism was way, way down. 
    And for that, I can only shout "Hallelujah".  I think the nationalistic
    spirit in this games was closer to what it was meant to be that it has
    been since sometime in the late 1930's.
    
    To lose the competitors who come simply to compete - the Moroccan
    cross-country skier, the Caribbean bob-sledders - would be to lose an
    important part of what the best of the games are all about.  I believe
    each sports federation chooses for it's sport what the level of skill
    must be.  I hope everyone realizes that the games can be a force for
    far more than expert competition, and we don't lose the human
    interaction in the rush to "improved" competition.
    
    Leave speed skiing out, please.  I can't put my finger on why - it
    isn't the fatal accident - but it doesn't feel like "sport" to me.
    
    After watching the exhibition skating following the competition, maybe
    we *should* include ballet as a summer sport.  :-)  Watching the joy of
    the exhibition, after the tension of the competition, was amazing.  I
    wish I had taped the presentation of the twist!
    
    I like the idea that so much of this games will be dismantled and sold
    to those who want it.  May the Japanese have better luck with the speed
    skating oval than the French did.
    
    And finally, to whoever planned the closing ceremonies, a loud cheer. 
    Finally, someone realized that the athletes would want to party after
    all the ceremonial aspects were done, and included it as part of the
    planned entertainment.
    
    A&W 

    
    Let's be brutally honest about it: a couple of individuals on the US
    hockey team managed to disgrace and tarnish whatever accomplishment
    might have been there (in particular the performance of Ray LeBlanc).
    That kind of behavior is something you very rarely see in the Olympics,
    even in the more subjective events where a deserving individual has
    clearly been wronged.  The way that game went Friday, with the Unified
    team dominating, the US team was not deserving and they should have let 
    it go at that.  
    
    If the officials in international hockey call the game the same way start 
    to finish, then I'd have to say that's the kind of hockey I'd prefer.
    No special treatment for the team that's down in order to contrive
    excitement... 
    
    glenn
    

Actually, I enjoyed watching the speed skiing more than watching
Alberto Tomba La Bomba with the pudgy belly slalom....

Probably has something to do with the fact that I like the downhill
better than the slalom too....


I thought that Charles Kuralt's "Thank You Note" last night was superb.
I wish I could write half as well as he does...


But on the other hand, I'm looking forward to watching Northern Exposure
for the first time tonight!



'Saw

    Though most of the American hockey players complained about the
    officiating, it was Clark Donatelli who yelled loudest and longest (and
    apologized on Saturday).  Ted Donato wouldn't do anything like that. 
    Not only did he go to Harvard but he's about to sign with the Bruins
    and everyone knows Boston professional athletes never, ever complain
    about the officials.
    
    I had a chance to watch parts of the game off a tape (not mine) this
    weekend and we had no cause for complaint.  The Unified Team was far
    better than we were, we had to take the penalties to slow them down and
    while they wouldn't have been called in a NHL game, they were still
    penalties.  It makes you realize what a magnificent game the 1980 team
    played.
    
    John

Regarding the officiating in the hockey....

A lot of it was seemingly one-sided, from what I saw.   That still doesn't
excuse blasting the ref, but emotions run high.  

And how do we know that the US was the only team to do that?  Our coverage
covers the US predominantly, and we don't really know what happened in
the Finland-Poland game, for example...


At any rate, the team did much better than they were expected, and as
I've said before, I'd settle for being the 4th best in the world
at ANYTHING.....


'Saw

    Speed Skiing......YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Awesome, absolutly Awesome. I really like the way theu train, atop of a
    car on the salt flats, cruising at over 100 mph. Talk about an
    adrenaline rush. 
    
    yea, I agree about the whining of the Hockey team. Instead of taking
    4th place and conceding defeat in the hands of a better team they piss
    and moan. They should have kissed Ray Leblanc's feet because without
    him they would have never progressed to where they were. But the blame
    it on the ref's, totally lame.
    
    
    -TH 

re .467

Yup, It WAS Donatelli who I was referrig to, not Donato. 

Tom

    I also agree about the US Hockey team whining.  Not only should they
    very happy with a 4th finish but also by only losing by a score of 5-2
    to the Russians Friday.  EUN very easily could've been in double
    figures in goals in that game.  I think their pouting was a big factor
    in carrying over into Saturday's loss which cost them a medal, not to
    take anything away from the Czechs.
    
    I was really pissed about Saturday night's coverage.  All the skating
    medals were handed out, and I figured I'd sit down and watch a night of
    the Olympics without any figure skating. (Yea, right)  But then they end 
    up devoting a hefty portion of the coverage to figure skating
    exhibitions.  Oh, by the way, we'll show you a handful of runs in the
    finals of the 4-man bobsled.
    
    
    Joe
    

    Re US HOckey team:
    
    Captain Clark Donatelli skated off the ice after the team's 5-2 loss to
    an obvious superior Unified Team and headed directly toward the game's
    officials.   He screamed that Sven Eric Sold was "the only damn Swede
    left in the tournament" and that he reamined around only to job the
    Americans of thier deserved gold medal.  U.S. Coach Dave Petersen
    hinted that there was a conspiracy to deprive the Americans of the
    gold.  He did not explain why a committee composed of Switzerland,
    Canada, Sweden and the Commonwealth of Independent States would play to
    cheat the Americans.
    
    
    (From Seattle Papers...)
    
    JD

    
    Deserved gold medal ? What a farce, and he is a complete ass*ole for
    disgracing the American Hockey program like that.
    
    The Soviets were basically skating rings around the Americans, at will,
    and this lugnut has the balls to say that ? Yikes.
    
    Eric Lindros does'nt strike me as the francise player he's been touted
    to be. He looks average, but he hits, BFD. This kid will get eaten
    alive in an 80 game scheduale with his 'skate when I want' atitude.
    Anyone else see him as the next 99 or 66 ? 

    
    TBefore I enter a note about all the things I liked about the Olympics,
    I have to comment about two articles I read over hte weekend.
    
    One was via wire services, and was be Macmulluen(SP?) of the Boston
    Globe.  The author questioned why the U.S.A. insists on sending whole
    teams over to the winter games, especially in events like x-c, biathlon
    and speedskating, where most of our athletes finish way in the back of
    the pack.  He also said we send too many 'older' athletes, instead of
    promising youth.  (s)he also used the biathlon as an example of us
    spending money and getting nothing in return.
    
    Well, I for one, think the author missed the whole point of what the
    Olympics are supposed to be about.  Not everyone can win medals, and
    though it is a shock to some Americans, we aren't going to win and
    dominate in everything.  Those are facks(tm).  However, unless we
    change the way we decide on teams, there isn't much we can do about the
    age problems.  The U.S., of course, has tryouts, and the top folks go,
    the others don't.  IN other countries, they have committees that
    decide.
    
    For the winter games (and for some summer events) - we just don't have
    the money, the sponsership, or the facilities to make our teams
    competitive - it will take a lot of effort and money to have the U.S.
    be really competitive in an event like the biathlon.
    
    And while the author was bemoaning how we've spent 2 million on the
    biathlon over an unnamed number of years, the author totally missed
    reality.   IN an article last week, it mentioned how the U.S. only
    funded *2* biathletes to compete in the world championships.  2 others
    paid thier own way by raising funds (bake sales???), and another has a
    sponser who paid for tickets.  Nothing else, just tickets.  ANother has
    a sponser that donates skis.   There are no real biathlon events staged
    in the U.S. - no world class, at least, and I think their is one in
    Canada.  The rest are in Europe.  Takes a lot of money and effort to
    stay world class (or in reality, become world class).
    
    In sports like that, the U.S. can either make a full-scale committment,
    or decide the heck with it and spend the money elsewhere.
    
    And after watching the games - and considering most US citizens watched
    CBS or read newspapers (like the author's Boston Globe) - how inspired
    would the youth of America be to try biathlon, x-c skiing, or one of
    the other sports that received virtually NO coverage.   
    
    The other article dealt the U.S. at the Olympics, and the U.S.'
    popularity.   It used the 1988 Seoul Olympics as an example  Prior to
    the games, about 57% of Koreans polled said that the 'most liked'
    nation competing at the Olympics was the U.S.A.  They far outdistanced
    the USSR.  By the end of the games, the percentage was down to 39% and
    falling.   The Soviets popularity soared.  Why?  One reason was
    sportmanship - or the whine factor.  The other was obnoxious fans. 
    Seems the Koreans were sick of having Americans raising their fingers
    in We're #1 signs no matter where they were.   Rudeness of American
    spectators was another reason given.  
    
    The author says that in many instances, US spectators acted like
    AMerica was supposed to win every event, and when the US didn't, they
    were sullen and angry losers.  
    
    Not a pretty picture.
    
    JD

>    Anyone else see him as the next 99 or 66 ? 


I don't see him as the next 99, but because he seems to play a different
style of game.   99 seems (to me) to be a real finesse player who doesn't
check much.  (Remember the comparisons to Gordie Howe, who was more of
an all-around playter).

I don't see 66 enough to know, really, if he and Lindros play the same
type of game...

Lindros can hit, which is a good skill....  I haven't seen him score,
because the only game I saw him in was yesterday.



btw, the Whalers made a BIG mistake in giving up Dave Tippett....



'Saw

    
    JD, that's Jackie MacMullan and he's a she.

    Now that the games are over, I have to say (sorry Hawk) but a million
    thank you's to the CVanadien Broadcasting Corporation.  The CBC
    coverage made for a very enjoyable Olympics.  Coverage the way I
    remember in younger years. the Kind of coverage the U.S. channels used
    to give (pre-L.A. 'pics).
    
    Saturday morning was great - live coverage of the slalom and the 50K 
    x-c race (Norge!!!), curling (no that was exciting ;-)  ), and the
    bobsled.    Oh, and short track speedskating.  
    
    These Olympics, I say thanks to the folks at the cross country venues -
    the singing Norwegians, Finns, Swedes and Italians, that made the races
    great.  To the athlets, especially Vegard Ulvang and Bjorn Dahlie. 
    Also Thomas Moberg of Sweden, who didn't win a medal, but was involved
    in some great races and just missed out a few times.    To Toni Nieman
    in SKi Jumping. 
    
    Thanks to Bonnie BLair for responding to the pressure, and to proving 
    yourself human.  To Kerrin Lee-Gartner of Canada and Hilary Lindh in
    the Downhill.  To Tomba.   Nuff said.  
    
    Great stuff on the hockey ice.  The U.S.A's gritty play.  The grace of
    the Soviets, and the great play of the Canadiens.  SOme great hockey.
    
    To the Japanese Nordic Combined team - one of the best performances in
    the games.   
    
    And to a host  of other great events, includning Germany beating the
    Soviets in the 4 x 7.5 Biathlon relay.
    
    ANd for rarely having to watch Paula and Tim and the rest of the CBS
    bozos.
    
    JD

 I know that by now the CBC coverage thing has become an inside joke
 but it really was superior.  I tuned it in on Saturday afternoon after the
 Hoos game and watched the curling coverage.
 
 I'll be the first one to admit that I don't understand squat about curling
 but the coverage was superb.  The Swiss team won it with an "extra inning"
 nailbiter that dripped *TENSION*.   The Swiss captain (Urs Dick) made an
 absolutely awesome shot with two rocks to go that clinched it.
 
 No Katarina Diet Coke commercials, no up-close-and-personals, no "USA!!!"
 chants ... just great camera angles and subdued expert commentary.  The
 way it should be.
 
 Bob Hunt

I didn't read the MacMullen piece, but it seems to me that it was a well
intentioned attempt at a How-can-we-win-more-medals analysis. First of all,
Jackie MacMullen (she) is a basketball writer. She covers the Celtics and writes
the NBA column in the Sunday Globe. She's pretty knowledgeable about hoops, but 
I don't think the newspaper is doing her or the readers any favors by having her
write about something she is not familiar/knowledgeable. There IS a skiing 
columnist, Tony Chamberlain on the Globe staff. Seems to me that he would have 
been the one who could best write the piece. 

Bob Ryan is the same way. He'll spout off about hockey, but he's a basketball 
guy through and through. Nothing wrong with that, but he shouldn't pretend he's 
a hockey writer when most genuine fans know more than he does.

In this case, BLAM ! the sports editor, Vince Doria. It's like a coach playing
his players out of position.

Tom

    	I find it hard to believe that Jackie MacMullen even did the
    piece.  I've never seen her do much outside of basketball (which
    she's very good at, even though she's from Boston and covers the
    Celtics, and writes for the Globe).  Is there another Mac on the
    staff?
    
    				/Don

    
    I read the Globe every day and I didn't see this Jackie MacMullen piece.
    Are you sure we're not talking about Michael Madden, who has absolutely
    no specialty but was covering the Olympics as a columnist?  Or one of
    the other beat writers?  I remember the column in question which did say
    that maybe we are sending too many athletes, but that wasn't the main
    point of the article (if it's the one I'm thinking of it merely repeated 
    that criticism which has been offered by many Olympic insiders who feel
    that winning is paramount).
    
    Speaking as an American, I really don't care if we can compete in 
    events like the biathlon or not.  I do think we should send our best
    biathletes regardless, but I don't feel that it's imperative to be the 
    best in everything.  The biathlon was undoubtedly conceived from 
    real-life activities of peoples living in the Arctic climes.  Regardless
    of what coverage it receives every four years in the Olympics, it's not
    likely to become popular with the average youngster.  For the US to
    seriously compete in the event, we'd have to handpick and groom
    biathletes from a fairly large pool of youngsters very early on in an 
    activity that's almost completely foreign to Americans.  I'm not sure 
    that kind of commitment just for the sake of winning is in the Olympic
    spirit...
    
    glenn
    
           

I could see us being more competitive in the biathalon if we started
programs in Minnesota, North Dakota etc.  Places where there is snow,
x-c skiing, and hunting.

WE COULD do it if we wanted to.  But I wonder if it's worth it....


'Saw

    Kev's grooming his son to do the biathalon, ain't he?
    

    I'll check the paper and see who it was.  I'm pretty sure it wasn't
    Madden - but maybe it was.  It was from the Globe though.  
    
    Anyway, I  don't advocate becoming a Biathlon power.  Given the amount
    of support it receives, I think the competitors do pretty darn good.  
    
    The spirit of the Olympics should be competition.  I got as much joy
    watching the Norwegian x-c'ers as I did Bonnie Blair skating to the
    win, or Thompson coming through in the short track - especially since
    she survived a fall (luckily, it was at the start and was called back).
    Despite a rep as being 'dirty', she was tough as nails and won the
    gold.
    
    One of the big problems we have are the governing bodies.  IN some of
    the lesser sports, there are almost as many USOC officials as
    athletes!~
    
    
    JD

    re .478:
    
    >	No Katarina Diet Coke commercials
    
    Ah ha, someone who's as tired of seeing that ad as I am (and I never
    thought I'd say that about any commercial with Katarina.  :-))
    
    
    py

    A USA gold medal in hockey would have been bad for the sport.  Their
    "style" of play is the problem with the NHL today.  The NHL will never
    attain the status of the NFL, NBA, or MLB until they learn to play
    hockey the way it was intended to be played.
    
    The finesse game of the Russians was a perfect picture of real hockey
    and was a thing of beauty.
    
    Mike

    Train Biathletes in NH, and put a picture of Bambi at the end of the
    scope...

>             <<< Note 191.487 by ROYALT::ASHE "Aww freak out!!!" >>>
>                     -< Dress the athletes in flannel... >-
>
>    Train Biathletes in NH, and put a picture of Bambi at the end of the
>    scope...


Walt, 

Can I forward this reply to Dan Schneider?  I'm sure he'd get a 
big kick out of it!



8^)


'Saw

    Ok with me....

    	Mike I prefer the skating style of the Russians to the clutch
    and grab of the NHL, but calling it finesse is not quite true. 
    Did you see the crosscheck to Joe Juneau's face.  The
    Russians/Unifieds/PC_Correct_Term can use the stick as a weapon
    with the best of them.
    
    				/Don

The only time the Us won a gold medal in the Olympics in the last 30 years was 
when they got a bunch of kids together that could skate and pass instead of just
check and grab. Coincidence? I think not....Herb Brooks should coach the team for
1994 and get a bunch of skaters together again. The US couldn't hit what it 
couldn't catch....

Did the IOC purposely put together an incredibly week pool and place the Us in 
that pool to appease the US TV gods? It sure looked that way to me. All the medal
winners played in the other pool.....

Eric Lindros is going to be the next great player. He was just held in check by
a great team yesterday....

Short track speed skating is a great event.....It even had my father in law on
the edge of his seat watching the men's 5000 relay even between Canada and Korea.

Speed skiing is not for wimps.....I can't imagine going 142 MPH on a pair of 
fiberglass and wood planks wearing nothing but some latex body rubber sprayed
all over my body.....

Was there a 4 man bobsled event? I must have missed it.

Despite the bad press before the games, France pulled this one off without a
major incident. The athletes would have been better served with a central village
however....

The 2nd run of Alberto Tomba is one of the best slalom runs I've ver seen...but
it still doesn't compare to Klammers down hill run at Innsbruk.

I still don't like figure skating as a sport although I enjoyed the 
"performances" that the skaters gave the other night. Is it just me or is figure
skating paralleling gymnastics too much. Didn't the skaters used to be graceful
women instead of young whippet like girls? Just how old was Dorothy Hammill when
she won her gold medal?

I like the closing ceremonies a lot better than the opening ones.....

The US should send the best athletes it has in each sport and continue 
determining them by trials instead of by committee.

I think we sh ould be able to see the best teams in the world compete against
each other instead of the best teams made up of citizens of an individual 
nation compete against each other. I'd like to have seen the penguins vs. the
Red leagues #1 team in the final game.....

I'm looking forward to the '94 games in Lilihamer...especially on CBC :-)

I'm not looking forward to getting blasted with election coverage for the nexted
8 months.....


Metz

    It's probably time for figure skating to adapt the proposal Alison made
    for women's gymnastics - a "little girls" division for jumping and
    twirling around and a women's division for those who can exhibit grace
    and elegance - like Nancy Kerrigan.  Although, Peggy Fleming could
    probably still win that division without even trying.
    
    John

> Did the IOC purposely put together an incredibly week pool and place the Us in 
> that pool to appease the US TV gods? It sure looked that way to me. All the medal
> winners played in the other pool.....

    Don't forget that Sweden was the gold-medal favorite going into the
    Olympics.
    
    The Lillehammer games in '94 will be the first Scandanavian Olympics
    since the '52 Summer games in Oslo.  And these games won't be very
    spread out - no venue will be more then 60km (about 37 miles) from the
    main press center.  I like the idea of them being not so spread out -
    that should make it much easier for the fans in attendance and the
    press.
    
    
    Joe

>    That's strange.  Do the skiers push with their legs and poles at the
>    top of the course?  That would be the only way that they could generate
>    the force to exceed terminal velocity, I would think...
    
I don't remember much physics, but I seem to remember that there is
a difference between speed and velocity.  Velocity is a vector -- that
is it has a directional component...

Now, how that affects a speed skier I don't know.


And terminal velocity of a body falling depends on air resistance, somewhat.
People who have put on "cone-head" helmets have free-fallen fater than
terminal velocity, I believe.    

I think I have all the pieces of the answer here, but I feel like
I've got a lot of bullets but no gun....


'Saw

    I had a_aunt that had terminal velocity, but she got better.  Wore some
    sup-hose and ate lots of beta blockers.
    
    JD

    re a few back on Olympic hockey:

    The top six seeds in the Olympic tourney were:

    1.	Sweden (seeded first because they won last year's
    		 world championship)
    
    2.  Unified Team\ these may have been reversed,
                     |    I can't remember
    3.  Canada      /
    
    4.  USA
    
    5.  Finland
    
    6.  Czechoslovakia

    
    py
                                   

 The aerodynamics are what make the speed skiers go faster than a falling
 human.   Tight tuck, waxed skis, sculpted helmet, and so on ...
 
 As for figure skating, my opinions are clearly stated and on the record.  
 It's in the same category as the floor exercise in gymnastics.   They're
 both physical arts of an extremely high form.   There are almost no
 *natural* competitive aspects to these disciplines.   Anytime a subjective
 "score" is applied to art form like these, you have this conflict.
 
 Ice dancing is perhaps the worst of these contrived "sports".   Very
 beautiful, very moving, very visually stimulating ... very false in terms
 of competition.
 
 Bob Hunt

> The aerodynamics are what make the speed skiers go faster than a falling
> human.   Tight tuck, waxed skis, sculpted helmet, and so on ...
    
    Gotcha.  They were talking about the terminal velocity of the average
    free-falling, non-aerodynamic human being, not a similarly aerodynamic
    hunk of mass (just making sure that these guys aren't breaking any
    physical laws or anything ;-).  It still boggles the mind that the
    speed skiers can be going that fast out in the open with no protection 
    like that, not to mention hold their balance.  It's basically a
    competition of who can get into and maintain the most aerodynamic tuck
    (weight is an advantage but the advantage is lessened as air resistance 
    and ski friction are reduced).
    
    glenn
    

    The person who wrote the article on the size and strength of the US
    Olympic team was John Powers, who has covered the Olympics and
    international sports for the Globe for years.  The person who was
    quoted as stating that the US is sending too many uncompetitive 
    athletes to the Winter Olympics was Peter Mueller, US speed skating 
    coach.
    
    One point that the article made that did raise my eyebrows is that the
    US sends more athletes to the winter games, by far, than any other 
    country, including the more successful European countries (I've got to
    admit, 18 US biathletes seems a bit much-- I guess there are no limits
    on team size in those events).  Apparently the Europeans don't just send 
    athletes for the sake of competing under the Olympic banner, but rather 
    only those athletes that they feel won't "embarrass" their teams.  Even 
    at that, the Olympic field has still swollen to record dimensions (some 
    2200 participants, 600 more than competed at Calgary).  The debate over 
    the current US philosophy will probably become academic, as the IOC is 
    talking about adopting qualifying standards to bring about more 
    manageable games starting in 1994...
    
    glenn
     

I saw a slow motion replay of one of the speed skiers falling, and
it reminded me of a low-side, high speed, motorcycle road-racing
accident.

As soon as the skier realized he was falling, he just went limp.
There was not much impact as his body hit the snow, and he just
slid.

At 140 mph I guess that's all you can hope for.......8^)


'Saw

    You would be amazed at how fast you can fall and walk away. As long as
    your allowed to slide and not hit anything you should be fine, and if
    you don't tumble to much, chances are slim of breaking anything.
    
    It's really not as bad as one might think, once you feel that you are
    past the point of no return, just let it go. It will be over in a few
    seconds and there is nothing you can do to stop the slide, just relax
    and count to 3 when you think you've stopped moving. 
    
    Ususally after a heavy crash, (don't like to do this to often) if I'm
    not laying in the middle of the racetrack I count to three when I think
    I've stopped moving and wiggle my fingers and toes. By this time the
    medics have arrived and they give you a good checkout, and you start to
    come back to planet Earth. 
    
    After a good fall and a whack on the cranium it takes a few minutes to
    get your bearings straight, and to shake the cobwebs off. I've helped
    guys from the track to the medical shed and they don't even remember a
    10 minute walk of any part of a conversation, but in 1 hour they are
    fine.
    
    I can see the definete parrallel between speed skiing and motorcycle
    roadracing, the speeds are similar (a Gran Prix 500cc bike will hit close
    to 200 mph on a long staight, I.E. Hockenhiem in germany) and the
    crashes are almost identical. 
    
    Most unforntunate that there was a fatality, that will be the only
    thing stopping the sport from becoming an really popular event. People
    don't like to see death in sporting events (Who does anyway) it leaves
    a most sour taste in peoples mouths/minds. Until they can get all the
    loose ends tied up, saftey, course structure, runoff, then it will only
    be an exhibition sport. At the speeds they are doing one mistake and
    its curtains. It's funny how at over 100 mph everything changes, depth
    reflexes, sight, sound, you really can't descibe it until you reach
    those speeds, and to cruise at 140 mph on skies is not for people who
    have weak stomachs. 
    
    I would love to see it as a medal sport. 
    
    -TH

            
    > Most unforntunate that there was a fatality, that will be the only
    > thing stopping the sport from becoming an really popular event. People
    > don't like to see death in sporting events (Who does anyway) it leaves
    > a most sour taste in peoples mouths/minds.
    
    As I understand it, the speed skier was not killed in activity that
    had anything to do with speed skiing.  He was killed doing some
    recreational skiing with friends on another part of the mountain.
    
    The same kind of things happened in Calgary.  Some dignitary, a prince
    or duke or something, was skiing on a course when they were putting up
    the finishing wire for one of the events.  He hit it and effectively
    decapitated himself.  There was at least one other incident with a snow
    cat that knocked a competitor out of an event with an injury while she
    was practicing (the girl from near here, skied at Nashoba, what's her 
    name... Pam Fletcher?).  I guess these freak accidents will happen from
    time to time...   
    
    glenn
    

    I did'nt see the accident, only heard 2nd hand that a speed skiier was
    killed during a run, hitting some type of snow grooming equipment.
    

    Pam Fletcher was injured in a collision with someone who was skiing
    where he shouldn't have been.  I think she had stopped on what was
    supposed to have been a competitors-only path and the guy ran into her.
    
    John

    Glenn -
    
    
    The reason the US has some many biathletes, and x-c folks at the
    Olympics is that we have folks who only compete in one event.  For
    instance, Koch only did the 30Km x-c race.  Jim Curran only did the
    50K.
    
    We also bring backups - 2 biathletes didn't compete at all.  Eric
    WIlbrecht only did the 10km biathlon.  Beth Coats only the 15km.  ANd
    so on.
    
    The other countries seem to use the same folks in all the events.  I
    know the Norwegians skiied ALL the x-c races (which makes their
    finishes really something...)
    
    Personally, I'm torn about standards.  I dont really get any jollies
    about seeing Morrocan skiers fall down mountains - just like I didn't
    catch the OLympic spirit watching Haitian 10km men (summer) running 42
    minute races.   However, I'd hate to close off the comp so that you end
    up with just a few countries being able to compete in events.  
    
    
    JD

Unfortunately, I think what will happen is the IOC will seek to
find a compromise between having a bazillion participants and
having to close it off to just the "elite" of the athletic world....


I enjoyed seeing the competitiveness of the Morrocan x-c skier.  He
was out there busting his butt, doing his best, in the tradition of
what the Olympics are about.   It makes someone like me, who is as
far from world class in anything as one can get, feel good to see
a normal guy participate.

And believe it or not, it truly heightens my appreciation of something
like what "The Terminator" did....



I think that what needs to be done is somehow weed out the people that
want to try and cash in on the Eddie the Eagle syndrome from the people
who truly want to compete.   Much easier said than done.....


'Saw

    The skiier died in practice on a recreational slope.

    Haven't qualifying standards been in place in Olympic track and field
    for a while now?
    
    Like JD, I have mixed feelings about qualifying standards.  Cutting
    things off so only the elite can participate goes against the "not the
    winning but taking part" philosophy behind the Olympics, but with the
    number of nations in the Winter Olympics increasing (and a dozen or so
    separate teams rather than one Unified Team participating next time
    around) logistics becomes a factor.  If seventy-five nations decide to
    enter four speed skaters in the men's 10,000 meters, it'll take forever
    to run all the necessary heats.  
                                                          
    Wish there was an easy answer to this issue...
    
    
    py

    POaul -
    
    I believe that countries can enter ONE athlete in an event in track and
    field - and then more if they meet the standard.  The most abusive use
    of this was in the 76 OLympics, when Papa Doc D. of Haiti decided he
    would have an Olympic team.  He went to an Army camp and picked guys to
    compete - "You are 100 meter man, you are marathon man, you are 400
    meter man..." and so on.   The Haitians, who were not even close to
    world class (in fact given their times at the games, my HIGH SCHOOL
    team would have absolutely destroyed them) competed, but it was a
    farce.   I believe the 100Meter man ran about 13 seconds, for example.
    
    That's why the US can enter 3 in most track and field events - however,
    many times we only have one entrant in the Hammer throw, because we
    don't have anyone who meets the standard. 
    
    JD

Al Oerter won the discus in 56, 60, 64, 68.  In 1968 his winning throw
was 32' farther than his winning throw in 1956.  (quite an accomplishment).


Are these four golds in four straight Olympics a record?




JD, how does standard vs qualifying affect the Marathon?  The US always
sends three people, I think.  Do other countries send three also?  Or
does that come under the standard.


Also, when will the Olympic qualifying marathon be run?  Soon enough before
Barcelona to give out athletes their best chance to recover, right?


'Saw

    Saw -
    
    Don't know if the 4 in 4 straight Olympics has been equaled.  It may be
    possible in one of the sports like Equestrian or yachting.  Don't know.
    
    Al Oerter made a comeback to try to make the 1980 Olympic team - he 
    threw further in 1979 then he did in any of his glory years.  Great
    athlete.
    
    Yes, there is a qualifying standard for the Olympic marathon. 
    Countries can enter one participant, and then up to two more if they
    meet the requirement.  The US usually has at least 3 meeting the
    standard.  Ethiopia, Kenya, Canada, the UK, the USSR, Australia and
    Germany and Italy usually field 3 folks apiece.  THere may be other
    countries - JAPAN, oh year, they always have 3 competitors.
    
    I would think the oLympc qualifying marathon would be soon, unless I
    missed it already.
    
    Looking in my fact book, the standard for the maraton is 2:14:00, and
    it has to have been run between January 1, 1990 and the date of the
    OLympic Marathon.
    
    The U.S Track and Field trials will be held June 19 through 28th in New
    Orleans.
    
    To get a glimpse of some good distance runners, you all in New England
    can go to Franklin Park on Saturday, March 21 to see the IAAF World
    Cross Country Champeenships.  Don't bet against the Kenyans.
    
    jd
    

    I believe the women's qualifying Marathon has already been run.  I also
    believe Oerter has the record for consecutive gold medals.
    
    As far as the participants go, I think the Olympics do have to go to
    some sort of qualifying standard.  When first conceived, the Olympics
    were for rich people who could afford to remain amateurs and who would
    never profit from their sport.  DeCoubertin wanted to keep the poor
    riffraff out.  Well, now the athletes who are really good are
    essentially pros and it's too hard to sort out the athletes who may be
    poor but are sincere about competing from the fast-buck artists who
    want to capitalize on their lack of ability.  This sort of thing was
    never, ever conceived of when the modern Olympic movement started.
    
    John

    The Women's Olympic Marathon Trials were held on Super Bowl Sunday.
    Note 123.229 says that the men's trials are sometime in April in
    Columbus, OH.
                    
    
    py

>
>    The Women's Olympic Marathon Trials were held on Super Bowl Sunday.
>    Note 123.229 says that the men's trials are sometime in April in
>    Columbus, OH.
                    
One would hope then, that the Olympic marathon be held closer to 
September.   

I'm no expert on marathons, but it'd be damn tough to run a world
class qualifying time in April, and then turn around and hope to win
gold in Barcelona in say, July.   That's awfully close together.


Also, if the trials are in April, look for the marathoners who want to
compete in the Olympic trials to NOT be in the Boston marathon...


'Saw

    Saw -
    
    
    They won't be in Boston.  No biggie.  The Rich (?) marathon in Columbus
    is the qualifier, I believe.  The SUmmer games start July 25.
    
    JD

    Re.-.1
    
    As far as standards go, here in Canada anyway, there is the Olympic
    standard and a Canadian standard.
    
    My brother, although ranked second in Canada for the 3000m steeplechase
    has yet to attain the Canadian standard time which is lower than the
    Olympic standard.
    
    He is withing the Olympic standard but it does not mean much as far as
    making the team.  Whether the same criteria applies for non running
    events here in Canada, I cannot say.

>    They won't be in Boston.  No biggie.  The Rich (?) marathon in Columbus
>    is the qualifier, I believe.  The SUmmer games start July 25.
    
Will you?  ARe you running Boston this year?


Is July enough time from April???


'Saw

    Saw -
    
    Nope, no Boston for me.  Don't really like Spring marathons, screw up
    the summer season.  Running Chicago in the fall.  Besides, of the
    marathons I've run in, Boston treats the runners (IMO) the worst of any
    of the marathons.  Horrible services - they act like you should be
    priviledged to even be allowed to run.    Again, MO.  But compared to
    what the other marathons I've run do for the 'normal' runner, Boston
    lags far, far, far behind.
    
    JD

>    Nope, no Boston for me.  Don't really like Spring marathons, screw up
>    the summer season.  Running Chicago in the fall.  Besides, of the
>    marathons I've run in, Boston treats the runners (IMO) the worst of any
>    of the marathons.  Horrible services - they act like you should be
>    priviledged to even be allowed to run.    Again, MO.  But compared to
>    what the other marathons I've run do for the 'normal' runner, Boston
>    lags far, far, far behind.
    
Oh, I didn't know that.

Well, if you're in Chicago, say hi to Bob Swerksy for me, don't have
too many Beersss, and watch out for the Polish sausages -- you don't
wanna have a heart attack...

Let us know how the prep and training is going....


Chris is running Boston this spring.  He just put in a 76 mile week...
(ouch, I'm sore thinking about it)....


'Saw

    
    I'm practicing for the biathalon by playing Nintendo's 'Duck Hunt'
    while working out on the E-Z Glider.
    
    See you at the '94 games....
    
    Dickstah
    

    There were quite a few of Olympic GIFs and JPEGs posted on Usenet
    today.
    
    Mike

    Jay Leno:
       "The US is so week in the cross-country events that our best
    finisher was the guy who lost 75 pounds with the E-Z Glider."
                                    Denny

    A few words on skating:
    
    I think the athelticism, as the announcers put it, makes the show much
    more interesting than say, pure grace and twirls.  That's art.  If you
    watch the Peggy Flemings and Dorothy Hamils, they did not jump much.
    
    Kristi Yamaguchi jumps, but she does not have a lot of triples.  She
    does not have the triple axel and I'm not sure she even has the triple
    Lutz.  I cannot say that I was that impressed with what I saw of her
    performance.  She  was the least flawed out of the competitors, which
    is to say that the singles skating was far less than dramatic this
    year.  It's was the best performance that won, it was the less-messed
    up that did.  
    
    I don't think there's anything wrong with better and better jumps
    happening.  It certainly makes the program more dynamic to watch.  
    
    
    On speed skiing:
    
    Terminal velocity for speed skier is different than the terminal
    velocity for a guy falling out of an airplane.  The speed skier is
    streamlined for maximum speed, whereas the schmuck falling out of the
    airplane is just falling.  Conceivably, the schmuck falling out of the
    airplane could attempt to streamline himself, too, but the likelihood
    is that the skier could still streamline himself better than the guy
    falling out of the plane.  So, being nitpicky, the speed skier is
    really not going faster than his terminal velocity, because, by
    definition, terminal velocity is the fastest you can go.   
    
    Got that?   :)
    
    
    kim

Some guy actually did go pretty fast jumping out of a plane.

He had this "conehead" type helment on, that actually covered his shoulders
so he looked like a missile.

Anyway, he went like a bat outta hell and then released the helmet, and
opened his parachute.

I forget how fast he went....


'Saw

    More importantly, how fast did he stop?
    
    lEe

>    More importantly, how fast did he stop?
    
Oh, he landed safely.  He had a quick release type of buckle on the
helmet, and when he separated from that, he popped his chute....


'Saw

    For those of you who thought the pay per view charges for the Olympic
    Triple Cast were outrageous, how about this:
    
    It is estimated that an average family of 4 (from the US?) will spend
    over $10,000 to attend the Olympic Games in Barcelona.

>   It is estimated that an average family of 4 (from the US?) will spend
>   over $10,000 to attend the Olympic Games in Barcelona.

 Seems like any family that could afford this is a bit above average or hasn't
 has a vacation in 5 years cause they were saving for this...

Well, you figure the airfare has got to be a HUGE chunk of that.

The cheapest I personally ever made the round trip from France was $900.
If you figure $1200 to get there and back (and I'm just pulling the figure
out of the air) then you've already got $4800.

Figure a hotel price of $50 per night (you know, like if they were traveling
for DEC) then you're talking $2800 for the two weeks of the games.  So now
you've got $7600 bucks.

Add in the admission (even if you DO put it on VISA) and meals, and
extras (call-girls for Dad, gigolos for Mom) and that side trip to the
bullfights, and you've got a cool 10 grand...



Better to stay home and buy a Harley-Davidson....


'Saw

    
    The Dream Team got a serious wake-up call lasted weekend, hanging on
    to win what should have been an easy game by a mere 79 points.  They
    could be in big trouble if they don't start playing some serious team
    defense.
    
    Well, I guess it's still early being only their first game and all, but
    it looks to me like they have a long way to go to reach perfection. 
    
    Dickstah
    

    ...and if Mike cain't start putting the ball in the hole they have NO
    chance!!
                                   Denny

    	136-57.
    
    	Gotta Be
    
    	DA SHOES!

    Figures that someone would have to spoil this topic with a note like
    .536
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       Truth hoits, eh Craze!!?
                                   Denny

    Your living in the past, Denny.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       You mean you admit he WAS god in the past??
                                           Denny

    Think that's bad, wait'll Doug Flutie sneezes in the Fall...  :-)
    
    On a semi-serious note, I was pleasantly surprised at the line up to
    shake opponent's hands after the game.  I really didn't expect to see
    that.  I figured our pros would simply do it the way they do "back
    home", ignore the other team and head right for the showers.  The 
    Olympic Spirit is alive! :-)
    
    Hawk
    

    Bird was God in the same way that Magic was and Jordan sometimes is. 
    I detest the Celtics but am not blinded by the distaste that I can't
    recognize a truly great player. Bird was a truly great player, and
    these days shows signs of that old brilliance (game 6 against the Cavs)
    once in a while. However, he is on the team more for lifetime
    achievement - which is fine - than his skill level today.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    
             I heard that Stockton broke his leg last night in the game vs
    Canada. Can anyone confirm this?

ESPN reported that Stockton broke his leg and will miss the rest of the
qualifying tourney but should be available for the real deal nexted month
(actually August).

Also, it must be reported that GOD did not play lasted night. He or Daly
chose to rest that divine back o his.

Meanwhile, the US won again 105-61 over Canada. Barkley again led scorers
with 19 points. When asked what they plan to do against Panama tonight,
Sir Charles replied: get the canal back.

TTom

I hope someone is keeping track of these replies of Barkley's because
they will make a wonderful anthology.

I agree, Bob, "classic" is the correct term.


'Saw

In an interview, someone asked Sir Charles if there was anything that he
regretted. He first said no and then he said that he did regret that he
only hit that guy in Milwaukee *ONCE*.

TTom

    Barkley and Perot in '92 !

    Stockton and Leary in '92 !
    
    

    
    
    
             Did someone say Tim leary had a broken leg?
    
     Musta tripped over some sandpaper.

    Can't wait to see Charles running the break with KJ and Thunder Dan.

    > Can't wait to see Charles running the break with KJ and Thunder Dan.
                                            ^^^^^
    Nah, I'll just leave it alone this time...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    

Hey, did I hear right?  Is it true that Nikolai Volkov and Jim McMahon were
traded to San Diego, but on the way they tripped with Timothy Leary and
broke John Stockton's leg ???
JD

       That's Vince McMahon JD not Jim!
                                  Denny

    > That's Vince McMahon JD not Jim!
    
    Yabbut, Denny, it twas Jim, not Vince, who got traded to the Chargers,
    in case you haven't heard yet...   
    
    BTW, any final score yet on Game 2 of the NBA Finals?
    
    Hawk
    

So, anybody else notice how much Dominique Wilkins sweats...;-)

JD

>So, anybody else notice how much Dominique Wilkins sweats...;-)

    Is it true that Stockton got his leg broken by a John Gotti protoge' ?
    

    The US Gymnastics team will be selected by the coach rather than purely
    by trials.  This is being done to prevent anything happening similar to
    Dan O'Brien failing to make the T&F team.  Said the gymnastics coach,
    "You don't see anyone telling Michael Jordan to go shoot 10 free throws
    and cut him from the team if he misses one."

     Does anyone know why some events have had the amateur status taken off
    them to allow professionals to compete.
    
    
 SCott

    I believe that each sports international governing body individually
    decided if they wanted to allow a change in status.  Some say "yea"
    others said "nay".
    
    Naturally it all stemmed from the reality of what the East Germans and
    Russians were doing by "disguising" their athletes as "military folk"
    while their full-time jobs were their respective sports.
    
    At least that's the way I understand it.
    
    Kev
    

    
     Thanks,I can't wait to see the dream team play,If they lose they
    should be taken out and shot.
    
     Yes this is the first time i've enterd a note in here.
    
    Thanks
          SCott

    Good eye Kev.
    
    I wish Vince McMahon would have allowed the pro wrestlers to go.
    

    I think part of it too was the Olympic committee is starting to realize
    the economic burden being put on athletes to compete in the
    international arena.

    Anyone besides me surprised to see so many empty seats at the Olympic
    boxing and gymnastics yesterday?
    
    
    py

>    Anyone besides me surprised to see so many empty seats at the Olympic
>    boxing and gymnastics yesterday?
    
No, but I was hoping that the PPV package was losing BIG money....

I think the TV people grossly miscalculated.  As someone had said,
if they charged $50 for the entire package, they might have sold bazillions
of them...


But PPV took this enormous jump in prices for special events.  It used
to be that you could get Wrasslemania for $14.95, now it's almost 40 bucks.

I think the PPV people figured they had us by the short hairs, but we
showed them!


And, btw, in my cable listings, there are only TWO PPV olympic channels.
PPV2 and SPICE channel have been reserved.  There are no other channels
listed.  Sounds like a rip-off to me....


'Saw

    Who won the cycling last night?  I fell asleep.
    
    The US had their volleyball victory taken away this morning after Japan
    protested some US altercation with the officials.  Japan was awarded
    the win.
    
    Pablo Morales is the #1 qualifier in the 100 fly tonight.  Melvin
    Stewart (from the Charlotte suburb of Ft. Mill, SC) also grabbed the
    last spot for tonight.
    
    	--dan'l

>    The US had their volleyball victory taken away this morning after Japan
>    protested some US altercation with the officials.  Japan was awarded
>    the win.


Does that mean they are out of contention for gold?

    
    
    Mens road race....
    
    Gold... Germany
    Silver..Italy
    Bronze.. France
    
    Womens Individual
    
    Gold...Kathryn Watt Australia
    Silver.. Jeannie Longo France
    Bronze.. Monique Knol Netherlands
    
    Chappy...

    
    The opening ceremony was really pretty good, IMO.  
    
    FYI, the DT basketball game against Croatia today is being broadcast
    on WEEI at 2:30PM so anybody with a cube near a window and a_AM radio
    can hear all the nail-biting action!  :^)
    
    I'm not usually a fan of pixie_gymnastics but the Rumanian 19 yr. old
    during the floor exercises wasn't hard on the eyes.  Is there some kind
    of food you can eat to replace the calcium in your bones with a rubbery
    fill?  It's impossible to bend over backwards like they do!
    
    I heard NBC had promised at least a 15.8 rating for the opening
    ceremony.  They got 13.x  Now they have to "rebate" the advertisers
    for the failure.  
    
    Kev
    

>    I heard NBC had promised at least a 15.8 rating for the opening
>    ceremony.  They got 13.x  Now they have to "rebate" the advertisers
>    for the failure.  
    
I'm wondering how much the PPV hype turned people off.

I mean, I heard the PPV advertising, and I thought, "well, screw that,
I'll watch on NBC", but the more I thought about it, the more I figured
that overall, stuff would be pretty boring.....


And so far, I've been right.


'Saw    

    JD, the gymnastics team decided a while ago not to select a team based
    solely on one performance at a trial (I mentioned it in here awhile
    back).
    
    One of the members of Canada's women's diving team had to go to court
    to attend the Olympics.  She had an outstanding trial, but was cut due
    to lack of international experience.  She sued and won and went to
    Barcelona where she was eliminated in the preliminaries.
    
    From what little I've seen so far of NBC's coverage, I don't think it's
    as bad as most people feared.  The up close and personal stuff has been
    kept at a minimum and they have been showing the competitions.  They
    even covered a cycling event where the US women didn't have a chance.

Mac -

Not sure if you were replying to me, or Saw's comment earlier about the
woman's gymnastic team.

A series of trials would be something I could live with, but I'd hate for
teams to simply be picked.

The Cycling coverage was a little bit of cycling interspersed with a zillion
minutes of up-close-and-personal.

Think about how much of certain sports they could cover if they cut out the
baloney (or at least kept it to a minimum...)   I mean, some of the swimming
races take less than a minute, but it takes NBC 20 minutes to show it.

I only half-watched the woman's gymnastics - I don't care for it, personally.
Rather watch the men's gymnastics.

Did they show any weightlifting last night?  They were supposed to...

JD