Conference 7.286::sports_91

    The Raiders waived Ricky Hunley LB, a former #1 draft pick of the
    Bengals, and signed Darin Jordan LB.
    
    Carlos

    The Raiders have improved during the season perhaps more than 
    any other squad.  Schroeder's progress is the most obvious, but
    that OL has become positively scary.  Not to mention the defense,
    which is hitting like the Raiders' D from the days of yore.
    
    As a_AFC fan I been thinking about who has the best shot against
    the 49ers (whom I've grown to loathe) in the Super Bowl and I've
    concluded that it's got to be the Raiders.  
    
    They have Marcus, Howie, Bo, that scary OL...  Gene Upshaw has 
    done a fine job of handling this team, and they get my vote for the
    AFC Title.
    
    MrT

    >The Raiders have improved during the season perhaps more than 
    >any other squad.  Schroeder's progress is the most obvious, but
    >that OL has become positively scary.
    
    I think Schroeder's regressing actually.  He was surprisingly decent,
    even {gulp} good going into the middle of the season, but since week 10
    or so it's back to the same old bonehead of a QB.  He's had a number of
    awful games lately.
    
    I think if the AFC has a hope in the Super Bowl, it's in Buffalo.
    
    Dan

    >Gene Upshaw has done a fine job of handling this team,...
    
    Upshaw??? Don't you mean Art Shell?
    
    Homeboy
    

    Hunley was drafted by Cinci but never signed. Denver picked him up
    in some deal which I forget the details. He played well but never became
    the big play maker everyone had hoped. During the last strike he 
    was very active and vocal on the players' issues. Management
    basically dumped him to the Cardinals then on to LA. 
    
    BoB 

    Throughout the month of December, with the exception of the Chargers
    game, Schroeder was awesome. He threw for 4 TD's against Minnesota and
    I believe it was 10 for the month. Not bad for a team that runs the
    ball as much as the Raiders. So I would have to disagree with your
    statement that he is regressing since midseason.
    
    
                                      Kenn

    Kennnn :-), I'm forced to agree with you, of all the QB's still in the
    hunt Schroeder is definitely one of the ones that is playing solidly
    right now. Also included in that list (IMHO) would be Cunningham,
    Rypien, and Marino. Those that are playing good, but questionable,
    from game to game are Young, Montana, DeBerg, and Boomer. Cody Carlson 
    had a great day for the Oilers last week, but it coulda been a fluke, 
    jury is still out on him. Hurting at QB, (IMHO) are the Bills, Chicago,
    the Saints, and the Giants. The Oilers, Bills, 49'ers, Bears, and
    Giants are all playing their second string QB's, and while these
    QB's are all very capable of winning big games, they are also all
    capable of choking in the big games. 
    
    Homeboy 

    The Raiders get Cinnci again for the 2nd time in a month. I think we'll
    see a steady diet of Bo and Marcus all day until Cinnci proves they can
    stop the run. I see an outcome just like the first game, especially if
    James Brooks is unable to go next week for Cinnci. 
    
                                     Kenn

    re:.7.
    
    Let's see.  Schroeder's playing solid in your ratings, and Montana's
    questionable.  Very interesting.
    
    Schroeder's a bum.  It'll show in these playoffs.
    
    Dan

    Dan, there is no reasonong with these Raider fans, their players always 
    are in the best in their eyes.  They sure got a lot of tough competition 
    in the AFC West this year. :):)
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

The Raider got real lucky with Miami beating the Kansas City Chiefs. Had the 
Chiefs won the Raiders season would end at the AFC championship game. 

>><<< Note 40.11 by FSOA::JRODOPOULOS "Hey Mon, How Many Jobs You Got Today ?" >>>
>>
>>    Dan, there is no reasonong with these Raider fans, their players always 
>>    are in the best in their eyes.  They sure got a lot of tough competition 
>>    in the AFC West this year. :):)
    
>>    John "D Cowboys" R.

    Sort of reminds me of a certain Brown(spot)s(tm) fan we had in here
    till the 'spots started losing!!!!
    
    JaKe
    
    

    re: -1
    
    My note was supposed to be sarcastic, I'm sorry if did not come across
    that way, and please don't ever acuse me of being a Cleveland Brown
    fan.  I have standards........
    
    BTW could you explain your note ?
    
    John " D Cowboys" R.

    re-.1
    
    I was speaking of the Raider fans, not you.   I wouldnt' accuse anyone
    of sound mind of being a 'Spots fan, or for that matter, of an unsound
    mind either.
    
    Sorry you misunderstood the note!!!
    
    JaKe
    

        

>><<< Note 40.11 by FSOA::JRODOPOULOS "Hey Mon, How Many Jobs You Got Today ?" >>>
>>
>>    Dan, there is no reasonong with these Raider fans, their players always 
>>    are in the best in their eyes. 
    
    It'd kinda dumb if in the Raider fans' eyes, the cowboys had the
    best players now wouldn't it?  
    
 >>    They sure got a lot of tough competition 
 >>    in the AFC West this year. :):) 
    >>    John "D Cowboys" R.

    When your on top of your division, like the Raiders or the Giants,
    then naturally other teams within your division are gonna look weak
    like the Donks or the Cowboys. But if your on the bottom, like the
    Donks or the Cowboys, then your teams schedule looks tougher, 'cause
    you gotta play teams like the Raiders or the Giants. It just all
    depends on your perspective. :-)
    
   > Sort of reminds me of a certain Brown(spot)s(tm) fan we had in here
   > till the 'spots started losing!!!!
    > JaKe
    
    Hey JaKe, in your intro note it says that you like the Raiders,
    so could this mean that you remind yourself of a certain Brown (spot)s
    (tm) fan?
    
    As far as Schroeder -vs- Montana goes, there is NO comparison. Montana
    is one of the all time greats. It's just that he's playing hurt
    right now, and Schroeder isn't. I do, however, think that if both
    these teams make it to the big game they will have comparable stats.
    Which would be more a reflection on the pass defenses than the QBs.
    
    Carlos

           <<< CAM::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 2.38                       Introduction Note                       38 of 78
CELTIK::JACOB "STEELERS=1990 AFC Central Champs"     13 lines   2-JAN-1991 22:22
                             -< JaKe hath Arrived >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Rich Jacob, aka JaKe
>>    Customer Service Engineer
>>    Pittsburgh, Pa.
    
>>    Likes:  Steelers, Pirates, Penguins, Pitt, Penn State, And Whoever is
                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>    playing the Mets, Raiders, Oilers, Brown(spot)s(tm), or Bengals.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Carlos:
    As seen above I definitely don't say I like the Raiders.  I also don't
    like the Bung(ho)les(tm), so I guess the only thing I can root for in
    the game this weekend is for the buttons to snap on one of the
    Raiderettes uniforms while on national TV.
    
    I remember the slugfests the Steelers and Raiders had in the '70's all
    too well and nothing short of an act of God Himself could sway my
    disdain for the Sliver and Blechhhh...
    
    JaKe
    
     

    
    Raider fans are making a serious mistake if they are counting out
    Buffalo. Oh ya, and I agree with Dan, Shroeder is a stiff.
    
    
    
    Steve

    Oooops!, Sorry JaKe, guess I mis-read it.
    
    Steve, the Raiders had Buffalo scared to death last time they played.
    It was just one of those fluke victories they lucked out on, where
    they was gettin their butts kicked throughout the game, and then
    all of a sudden (like two minutes) they luck out and score 21
    or so unanswered points. It won't happen again though, besides they'll
    be lucky to get by the Dolphins again. :-)
    
    Carlos

    In yesterdays USA Today, they had the results of their best and
    worst polls of the year, and the Raiders uniforms were selected 
    as the best liked, while the Browns had the worst liked uniforms.
    
    Also, Al Davis was among the worst liked owners. Imagine that....
    
    Jimmy Johnson of the Cowboys, was selected Coach of the Year by
    the The Associated Press. He edged Art Shell of the Raiders by 2.5
    votes. ......incredible how a coach with a losing record can be
    selected over coaches with winning records.
    
    Carlos

>    votes. ......incredible how a coach with a losing record can be
>    selected over coaches with winning records.

Not so incredible Carlos.

I mean, I'm no fan of Jimmy Johnson, or the 'boys, but I've got to
hand it to him, in one season he took the 'boys from 1-15 to 
7-9, missing the playoffs by a hair's breadth.

Shell is a great coach, but this year, I think the coaching "miracle"
was Johnson.

Similarly, if MacPherson can do the same with the Pats, look for him
to cop the honors next year.....

'Saw

    Yeah, but 'saw Johnson was the one who coached them to the 1-15 season. 
    What if the Broncos went 9-7 next year, should Reeves get coach of the
    year?
    
    Another thing, does Texas have some sort of affection for people who
    dress 20 years behind the times or something?  They had Landry with the
    stupid hat, Glanville who wore enough polyester clothes (with a white
    belt no less!) that he looks like he belongs out here in Sun City
    playing golf with all the dried up Meachamites, and now JJ with a
    haircut that would make Rueben Kincaid of the Partridge Family proud. 
    Is all of Texas really that void of class?  
    
    Bruce (who's scheduled to go to Dallas next week and is wondering
    whether he should pack a leisure suit or not)

    'Saw, I agree that JJ's doing a great job of turning that team around
    and had the 'boys made the playoffs it (CotY) could be justified.
    The thing is, that the 'boys still ain't there, and there are other
    coaches who have also turned their teams around but are there. I
    just don't think we should reward mediocrity.
    
    Bruce, thanks for the laughs on the Texas coaches, especially the
    Ruben Kincaid one.....haaaaha... :-)
    
    Carlos 

Bruce --

You'll have a REALLY fun time in Dallas.  When I used to work for
American Airlines I had ocassion to go there twice.  I forget what
hotel we stayed in but it was supremely elegant (even had phones
in the bathroom).  The waitresses in the lounge were extraordinary,
each one looking like she stepped straight out of a centerfold.

At 4am the city was still jumping.  I was there for three days one
time and had all of about two hours sleep.

Enjoy dude.  Bring your cowboy boots. 8^)


Carlos --
Good point.  


'Saw

 Well Cowboys did have an easier schedule. Had Aikman not been hurt Boys
 probably would have made the playoffs. Shell inherited a load of talent.
 JJ tore the team apart and rebuilt it. For that I give him the node over
 Shell. Just as long as that cheatin good for nothing Wchye doesn't win
 it I'm happy...

 mike

    
    Jimmy Johnson was an excellent choice as COTY. I have to admit I
    really don't care for the guy but he has turned around that team.
    It helps when your best friends with the owner!
    
    
    
    Steve

    The Raiders are my favorite team!  Go Raiders!
    
    lEe

    RAIDERS win on to BUFFALO!!!!!!!!!!!

    You take Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas and Neil Anderson. Give me
    Marcus Allen - the guy is simply the best back in football.
    
    Rich
    

    The Faiders will not win in Buffalo.  The Bills will no be denied.

    This is going to be the best game of the playoffs so far....Buffalo is
    a very strong team especially at home, unbeaten there this season and
    strong at all aspects of the game.......Hopeing for nice weather next
    week I think another snow/ice/freezing rain game would go to buffalo a
    warm weather game will keep it even.  Both teams have a strong running
    game but buffalo will gain the advantage in bad weather...Will be a
    close one with bo breaking lose for a big yardage td in the 4rth and
    the raiders squeak it out...Im hoping for a LA VS NY Superbowl.....
    								MAB

    Jay Schroeder had a solid game at QB yesterday and made two key passes
    in guiding the Raiders to a win. Everyone rips the guy when he has a
    bad day, however when he has a good day no one gives him credit. Greg
    Townesend was awesome. Riki Ellison was burnt repeatedly on the same
    running play over and over again. Where is Aarron Wallace???? Willie
    Gault was non-existent all day. Snow is not a good sign for the Raiders
    next week, however like Schroeder said "we have the talent to play with
    anybody". This should be the best game of the year!!!!
    
                                     Kenn
    

      Yeh Shroeder had a good game, but you better credit the o-line for
    that, 'cause everyone knows that Shroeder chokes under pressure.
    
      This should be a good match up, with the edge to the Bills.  The last
    turnover will decide the game IMO.
    
      Marcus is as good as his line blocking.
    
    	T-bone

I was just thinking on what HOOT and Monty would be saying right now. :-)

You Donc fans should be happy that they took the buyout. If they hadn't we
would never had heard the end of how the mighty RAIDERS (why are they always
capatalized?) are back.

I miss them......


  Metz

> I was just thinking on what HOOT and Monty would be saying right now. :-)

    I'd like to see what they'd be saying after the Bills put a good old
    fashioned whippin' on the Raiders this Sunday.
    
    Joe

      Hoot and Monty always said the faiders were mighty, even when they
    were 5-11 or something like that....
    
    		T-bone

    
    	Ellison led the team in tackles against Cincy with 
    ten so he more than made up for the ones he missed.
    The Raiders will activate Greg Bell for the Buffalo
    game.
    
    
    Vinny

    accourding to todays National BO will not play sunday against the Bills
    this is a big break for the Bills and will in no doubt change the out
    come of the game....The Raiders still have high hope because they were
    also quoted as saying We wish there were 2 weeks before the superbowl
    wed like bo to be ready to play then !!!!  Still anyones game but the
    odds just went in Buffalos favor...I wonder how much this will effect
    the Odds in vegas's eyes ...???
    								MaB

    For 2 teams that seem evenly matched, a 7 point line seems pretty
    unrealistic at this point I wouldn't think that it would increase.
    Schroeder is a stiff and he always chokes?????? Is that why he was
    named the AFC's offensive player of the month for December, which are
    the most important games of the year when you have a chance to win your
    division. The comment made earlier about Marcus Allen is REDICULOUS!!!!
    The 3rd down run he had at the end of the game proves that. All backs
    do better with a good offensive line. I think it's going to be a great
    game, and I'm looking forward to watching it.
    
    
    
    
                                      Kenn

    So much for it being a great game, they got SMOKED!!! The defense
    played as poorly as the Bills offense played well. Once again the LB's
    were nowhere to be found. Lionell Washington got burned all day by
    Lofton. Is there ever gonna be a time when the Raiders can stop the run
    out of a shotgun formation???????? Schroeder did not play well which
    I'm sur I'll catch alot of grief for considering I've backed him all
    year. However when the defense knows that you've got to pass your kind
    of in a hopeless situation. Terry McDaniel may have been the only
    bright spot for the Raiders.
    
             I was highly impressed with Buffalo and feel they will have no
    problem with the Giants. 
    
                                  Kenn

Well, well, well, he said, stroking his jutting jawline.

51-3, hey?

Far be it from me to laugh at any RAIDERETTES (tm), or retaliate for all
the comments made when the Broncos got blown out in the Superbowel.

I should probably mention, though, that on the list of ALL-TIME POST
SEASON PLAYOFF BLOWOUTS,  The Faiders (tm) have now moved into 3rd
place.

Washington is 1st... losing by 73 points in 1940
Houston is 2nd...... Losing by 49 points in 1969
Raiders are 3rd..... losing by 48 points in 1991

Broncos are in sixth place.

[ In spite of the razzing, if it had been Raiders and 49'ers in the
Superbowl, I'd have been screaming my guts out for the Raiders and the
AFC West. ]

Tough Luck guys
Mike JN

      Where are all the faider faithfuls today?  There has been only 1
    faider fan in here.  Carlos,  are ya on vacation??
    
      I got to watch most of this game, and boy did I enjoy it!!!  41-3 at
    halftime.
    
      I thought the Broncos choked in the big one, but the faiders got
    smart and choked early.
    
      Alot of people are saying that Bo would have made a difference.  Not
    this time.  Shroeder had a classic game, and the defense didn't know
    who to turn around and point to.  Maybe Howie won't be soooo cocky next
    time, but then again, he is a faider.
    
      I will say that I know how youze faider fans feel getting blown out,
    but Kay sir awe sir awe......
    
    
      Better be ready next year, 'cause the Broncos will be back!!!
    
    		T-bone

    I thought Howie Long had a *great* pre-game quote ...
    
    "We're going to win this thing and then represent the AFC in the Super
    Bowl like it should have been these last few years."
    
    Oooo, looks like that'll be taped to the Broncos' locker room walls
    next season.
    
    Bob Hunt

    You cant compare the raiders to the donks...Plesae.  THe broncos have
    lost how many superbowls and if thats not enough they still have the
    #1 record for worst, THATS WORST superblow ever.  Translation they
    were lucky to be there.  And if you dont think BO being out made a
    difference you blink and proberbly dont understand the Riaders OFFense
    at all.  Im not a die hard raider black and silver blood running
    american but they were the #2 team in the AFC and id put them at about
    #5 in the league right now.  BO accounted for about 25%-33% of the
    plays on a normal day (Not so much as carrying the ball but blocking
    and making the defense cover him double, triple whatever)  Take that
    away from a team and your in troble...Look at it this way if Shroader
    had thrown 1/2 the amount of passes then for the sake of argument well
    say he would have only thron 2-3 interceptions.  With the running game
    hurting fron the opening kickoff and then falling behind the game was
    over.  Bo is a big part of the raiders team and he made a huge
    difference, with a helthy bo the Bills may have still one but not by
    more than 10.......In comparising to the broncos they lost by 45 points
    in a superbowl and I dont remember one of the Best Offensive stars
    being out.  And please dont insult me bying saying that the broncos
    had a lineman with a hangnail and thats why SF scored 55pts.  The
    raiders are a much better team than anyone gives them credit for and
    the broncos are a overhyped team of the past.
    							GO BIlls (AFC)

    I read some reports that more than a few unnamed Raiders and Al Davis
    himself aren't too happy with Mr. Jackson right now.  They didn't like
    the way he lost interest in the Bengal game after he got hurt (instead
    staying in the background playing with his kids), and apparently, as
    has been the case in his baseball venture, they question his
    dedication to the team as opposed to his own career.
    
    I think the complaints are legitimate.  If the upshot of this two-sport
    experiment is going to be frequent injury and distracted attention 
    resulting in large chunks of missed playing time in *both* sports, then 
    Bo becomes a sometimes wonderful, sometimes spectacular curiosity, but 
    one I'd probably rather see on someone else's team.
    
    glenn
    

    You heard it here first.. Print this reply out and post it
    in your office... The Raiders will draft the USC QB (forgot his name)
    who just got caught with coke....
    
    

    WOA!  You mean clean Todd "never eat red meat" Marinovich?
    
    Yes, here it is right in the paper...arrested for investigation of
    possession of cocain Sunday...also was carrying grass.
    
    But if he's a coke user, doesn't the NFL have a right to keep him out
    of the draft?
    
    Also, his dad must be crushed.  Couldn't have happened to a better
    father.  This kid was fed football from the day he was
    born...literally...had a football in the nursery.  Todd was deprived of
    a normal childhood for the sake of his father's glory.  Two years away
    from home and look what happens.  This is sad, but for some reason I'm
    kind of glad it happened.  Strange how my mind works sometime.
    
    	--dan'l

Nope, from what I've seen of his (looney) Dad, he must be ripshit!

I really feel sorry for that kid.  Someone of lesser strength, (or more
depending on how you look at it) probably would have blown his old man
away......

'Saw

>    THe broncos have
>    lost how many superbowls and if thats not enough they still have the
>    #1 record for worst, THATS WORST superblow ever.  Translation they
>    were lucky to be there.  

    So if you think the Broncos were lucky to get that far, you're also
    saying the Faiders were lucky to get as far as they did.  
    
>    Bo is a big part of the raiders team and he made a huge
>    difference, with a helthy bo the Bills may have still one but not by
>    more than 10......

    HA HA!!!  That's a good one!
    
    
    Joe
    

    SO I guess thurman thomas is a not needed piece of buffalos picture.
    Bo may not have reached 1000yrds like thomas but he also plays less
    games and splits the time with another running back, thats marcus
    alled seeing that you are obviously not familiar with the raiders
    team or there offensive structure.  Bo averages 5+yrds per carry,
    what does thomas average ??? Im sure bo is a better back than thomas
    so if you dont agree that being boless made a difference you must not
    feel very highly about thomas, I guess hes a waste of money for the
    bills huh.....I can understand raider bashing and even bo bashing but
    please show me that you have some understanding of the game in at least
    some of your entries.....(last reply to pure bashing factless entries)
    									MaB

    Sad tale of Todd Marinovich. When I read that story about him and his
    Dad, I kinda thought he was a ticking time bomb. I hope the kid gets
    some help and straightens out. He's young and can rebound
    
    MikeL
    
    PS: In a sick comment on this story, some wiseguy said the when his
    Dad found out he was caught with coke, he exploded " I told him to
    drink apple juice."  Sorry.
    

    MAb...Are you saying the faiders are nothing without Bo?  It seems they
    won quite a few games without him.  He is a strong Rb, but he ani't
    gods gift.
    
      There is also no foundation to your statement that the Bills would
    have only won by 10 points if Bo was in the game.  He isn't a defensive
    player. Nor would he have taken 38 points away from the Bills.  Also,
    alot of hype last week was around how much Allen would have picked up
    the slack for Bo's absense.  There was Greg Bell in the game, who just
    happened to be a good Rb for the Rams.
    
      Bottom line is that the faider defense could'nt do squat, nor could
    Jay!
    
      The faiders had their best year in a longgggg time, so be happy with
    that.
    
      As to the donk-faider comparison, that was just to show a point
    differential of last years SB against this years AFC championship game. 
    That was done after all the bashing the Broncos took after their
    thrashing by the 9'rs.   Fair play ya know??
    
      If you want to talk faider dominance over the Broncos this year, well
    sure they beat them both times, but only by a total of 8 points in 2
    games.  No dominating factor there.
    
      Sooooo 'til next year......
    
    
    		T-bone

    
    	BO would have made a difference if he was healthy and could
    have run against the Bills defense, a teams running game is the
    key to open up alot of things like the passing game, it also
    would have keep the Bills offense off the field. Too many what
    ifs, the Bills won and thats it.
    
    	About the Raiders getting killed, they won some big games
    and lost some, the bottom line is they look like their on the
    upswing.
    
    
    Vinny

    Your right I cant say they would have only won by 10, but common sense
    would say if a QB throws less he apt to be intercepted less.  They LA
    tried to come out and pass, they had to because they couldnt count on
    the running game as much as they previously could with bo...........
    This is  really easy to understand....Its hard to make a good
    comparison because Buffalo has a very strong backup QB so there passing
    game is always intact but if thomas was injured it would severly hurt
    there running game.  LA relies more on the run, where buffalo relies
    on there pass, BO is a big part of there run game period...Oh well its
    quite obvious that you have bad feelings toward the raiders and
    proberbly some raider fans that use to be in this note, this is why
    your blinding with bashing.....Oh well, buffalo is a great team and
    Im pulling for them to win the SB but there not a 48pt favorite over
    the raiders, things go your way, things really go your way...

Hoot called me again and said 


What really happen was Uncle Al's plan was forced down in Denver and the 
Players were asked to get off the plane. Then Pat Blow'in got on board with 
his team and all the Donkey's. Pat told them they were going to the SHOW. 
Resulting in the 51-3 blowout. 
 

    No, one running back getting his 10 or so carries would have done
    nothing to avert this big time blowout.  
    
    Re: Marinovich.  Frank mentioned blowing his father away...  I think
    that's harsh, and certainly a morbid thought, but it made me make a
    connection.  SI had a piece on Marinovich this year, among other
    things, showing that he liked to paint (as in on canvas, not houses). 
    I'm suddenly reminded of Dead Poet's Society, in which the young man,
    driven to be a doctor wants to explore acting.  His father squashes the
    attempt, humiliating him and the ending is tragic.
    
    Not that I would think for a second that such could happen.  I hope
    for Marinovich's sake, and USC's that he stays in school.  He's
    suspended from spring practice this year (nothing to do with the recent
    bust, at least not directly).  He needs an attitude adjustment, and I'd
    guess an overdue period of "finding himself" before he's ready for
    football again.  If he takes school seriously (something I don't think
    he was doing) adjusts and find, he could come back next September and
    deserve all the Heisman hype as a junior.  
    
    I think applying for the NFL draft now would be the worst move he could
    make, both personally and professionally.
    
    Dan

    
    I thought Marinovich didn't even register for classes this spring.
    If he's not even in school, he's gone.  Maybe not to the pros, but at
    least to another school (he'd have to sit out a year, right?).
    
    glenn
    

    >If he's not even in school, he's gone.  Maybe not to the pros, but at
    >least to another school (he'd have to sit out a year, right?).
    
    Yeah, but he red-shirted his freshman year.  I don't think it would
    make much sense, in football terms or in personal terms, to sit out
    another year, play the '92 season at another school and then enter the
    draft, *unless* his relationship with Smith and USC football is really
    bad.
    
    Dan

    Any news on Jerry Abair (sp?). I had heard some rumors that he wanted
    to play for the Raiders... has anything come of that? Is Al Davis
    interested?... A sound quaterback can make all the difference in a
    team, because offence and defence learn to rely and have confidence in
    the "leader"; that makes everyone else want to play better.

    Bobby Hebert (pronounced A-bear) is the player to whom you're
    referring.  Jerry Adair is a late former Red Sox player.
    
    There is no news about Hebert wanting to play for the Raiders at this
    time.  He is, to the best of my knowledge, a complete free agent.
    
    I don't know how happy the Raiders are with Schroeder nor do I know if
    they're planning on keeping Steve Beuerlein.
    
    John

    Would the Pats look at him?

    Have'nt had a chance to get in here since before the Raiders/Bengals
    game 'til now. I just recently changed job responsibilities and
    inherited a heavy workload, so I proberly won't be gettin in here
    as often as I'd like.
    
    Raiders had a great win over Cinci, but really got their butts kicked
    in the AFC championship game. Don't think Bo would have made that
    much of a difference had he been healthy. The Raiders defense tore
    it up all season long and then got torn up in their last game, they
    didn't even have a clue. I personally think they screwed up during
    Buffalos first drive. Kelly and crew were gaining yardage on every
    play, but the Raiders defense was also gettin in there and they
    almost got Kelly on a couple of occasions, until the defensive coaches
    freaked out, called a time out, and changed their whole game plan.
    Oh well, I guess anything at this point is just meaningless
    speculation.
    
    Carlos (who hopes the Raiders won't lose to many good players to
            plan B, and who also thinks we might be seeing Major Harris
            instead of Marinovich, or Hebert in silver and black)
    

    SportsChannel reported this morning that the Raiders will likely make
    a contract offer to 49ers defensive back Ronnie Lott (who was left
    unprotected in Plan B).
    
    
    py

    Yea, the Raiders are willing to give Lott 2 years guaranteed. The
    Niners only want to promise 1991. The Vikes are also in the running for
    Lott's services as well.
    
    BBBBIIIIIIIGGGGGGGG mistake by the NIners if they let Lott slip away.

    The Raiders lost a good one when the Jets signed Bill Pickel the other
    day. I agree that the 49ers are making a big mistake if they let Lott
    get away.
    
                                 Kenn

    WHat did Raiders fans think of Pickel's play last year?  I've heard
    it's been downhill since the pro bowl season of 2 or 3 years ago. 
    Whatever the case, the Jets are desparate for good, experienced DLs,
    and it doesn't hurt that Pickel's a Rutgers grad.
    
    Dan

       Raiders got Lott. $1million per. The 9ers asked him to take $200,000
    less. He told 'em: "see ya"!
                                    Denny

    
    > Raiders got Lott. $1million per. The 9ers asked him to take $200,000
    > less. He told 'em: "see ya"!
    
    I dunno.  The 49ers seem to have the Branch Rickey knack of moving a 
    player a year too early rather than a year too late.  I suspect 
    they'll miss Lott's leadership, but injuries were slowing him down 
    late in the year.  The 49ers have the foresight not to let all their
    great players age on the field like the Steelers did, and so far it's
    worked.
    
    glenn
    

    Ronnie Lott, left unprotected by the 49'ers despite being an All-Pro
    last season, has signed a two-year contract wif da Raiders as a
    Plan B free agent. He'll move from free safety to strong safety
    with the Raiders, imagine that, Anderson and Lott in the same
    backfield !! Ouch! 
    
    Greg Bell, Napolean McCallum, and Vance Mueller are all up for grabs.
    This along with Bo's unknown future, could spell trouble for the
    Raiders, especially if Bell signs with another team. Marcus is still
    in MHO their best RB, but he's getting a little long in the tooth
    and will need Bells help back there, although Steve Smith could
    probably get the job done just as well.
    
    Carlos

    Just what the Raiders need, another old player on the decline.  Is
    Alzado gonna try another comeback this season?  :^):^)

    >>             -< Oh, BTW: Bills 51, Faids 3 (heh, heh) >-
    
    Joe, if you thought that was funny, you'll love this one: 
    
    Donks 5-11, worst team in the AFC West. (hee hee heee....)
    
    There, now that I got that outta my system, does anybody know how
    last years first round pick, Anthony Smith, is doing? He looked
    pretty good until that first game (?) when he got some kind of leg
    injury. Just wondering...
    
    Carlos
                                                         
    

    
>    Donks 5-11, worst team in the AFC West. (hee hee heee....)
   
    Well, don't laugh too long, Carlos, because this only means an easy
    schedule for '91. 
 

    Big Deal the Raiders got the buts wipped by buffalo, It did buffalo
    alot of good packing on the points and tiring down the team.  Great
    strategy score 51 pts to get to the superbowl just to come up short
    in the big one.  Raiders had a great season you cant take that away
    and yes the donks will now get a good draft pick and an easy schedule
    but the easy schedule still includes 2 games against each division foe
    so that could be 8 loses right there :-)
    								MaB

    >>Well, don't laugh too long, Carlos, because this only means an
    >>easy schedule for '91.
    
    Oooo, good point, that is unless the Donks choke against other last
    place teams, which in turn would only add to the laughter. All in
    all 'though, it should be one heck of a tough division this year,
    with the Chargers improving by leaps and bounds, the Chiefs, Raiders,
    and Donks making things fun, and the dreaded Seahawks (I ain't falling
    for anything, anybody says about this team no more). 
    
    Carlos

Word on the radio is that the Raiders are also going after Roger Craig,
also unprotected, to help shore up the possible loss of Bo.  Expect
a deal by the end of the week.

Nice name, "Raiders"

More news when I get it.

    
    	Art Shell said Anthony Smith could have played at the
    end of last year but the rules wouldn't let him, so he's
    ok.
    
    
    Vinny
    

    Thanks Vinny,
    
    	Good news about Anthony Smith, I'm sure he'll help out. In other
    Raiders news, Greg Bell was said to be seriously considering an offer
    by the Vikings. Imagine that, Walker and Bell in the same backfield!
        I hope that the Raiders can sign Craig, just in case Bell does
    split. Anybody else know anything about the Viking/Bell deal?
    
    Carlos

    
    	I can't understand why people keep getting rid of 
    Greg Bell, the guy is great. I'd keep him before Craig
    or Allen, he's a much better running back than either
    of them, they might be better receivers out of the back-
    field but with LAs receivers who cares?
    
    
    Vinny

      The Broncos could use Bell.  He would be a good back-up for Bobby
    Humphrey.  Isn't to late now to pick plan B folks?
    
    	T-bone

       I was just thinking that its to bad Bo is gone, 'cause I thought the
    guy was great.
    
       If the Faiders have a crappy year,  will the excuses be because Bo
    is gone?
    
      Just startin' early;^^
    
    		T-Bone

    >>If the faiders have a crappy year, will the excuses be because
    >>Bo is gone?
    
    I doubt it, especially considering that the Raiders just signed
    Roger Craig. Lets see, that puts Marcus Allen, Roger Craig, Greg
    Bell (if he doesn't sign with somebody else), Steve Smith, Napolean
    McCallum (if he doesn't sign either), and Vance Mueller (if he doesn't
    sign) all playing for the Raiders. Miss Bo? Maybe, but I don't think
    they will be needing him. :-(
    
    >>The Broncos could use Bell.
    
    So could the other 26 teams. 
    
    >>He would be a good back-up for Bobby Humphrey.
    
    Or vice versa, I agree 'though, the Donks would have a great running
    attack with both of them back there.
    
    >>Isn't it to late now to pick plan B folks?
    
    Don't know when the deadline is, but again, the Raiders just signed
    Roger Craig yesterday.
                                        
    Carlos

    Here's a list of who the Raiders signed and lost through Plan B.
    
      Signed                           Lost
    ------------------------------   -------------------------------
    Stefon Adams, wr, Dolphins       Bill Pickel, dt, to the Jets
    O'Brien Alston, lb, Colts        Alex Gordon, lb, to the Bengals
    Roger Craig, rb, 49'ers          Darrin Jordan, lb, to the 49'ers
    Vencie Glenn, s, Chargers
    Bruce Klostermann, lb, Rams
    Ronnie Lott, db, 49'ers
    Joel Patten, t, Chargers
    
    This is what Don Heinrich's Pro Preview//90 had to say about some
    of these guys.
    
    Bill Pickel is a former Pro Bowl nose tackle, but has chronic back
    problems and is starting to show his age (30). He's instinctive,
    uses his hands and plays with good technique. He makes more plays
    on effort than ability.
    
    Vencie Glenn has become a better than average free safety. He runs
    well, gets a nice jump on the ball, takes good angles and covers
    a lot of ground. Though he's fearless, Glenn doesn't always wrap
    up on tackles. He's also a sucker for play-action and gets caught
    shallow.
            
    O'Brien Alston underwent reconstructive knee surgery in '89 and
    questions linger about how well he will rebound from his injury.
                                                                    
    Joel Patten is smart and quick. He gives good effort, sustains and
    makes few mistakes. But his strength doesn't always match his size
    (6-7, 307). He's a catcher in run blocking and occasionally gets
    knocked back in pass protection by a good bull rush. Otherwise he's
    a solid pass protector who's tough to beat because of the real estate
    his size allows him to cover.
                                                                   
    
    Carlos

    Anybody out there who doesnt think that the Bo-less Raiders are as
    good a team without him then with him DONT KNOW BO.  The Raiders are
    still going to be a tough team, they assured that by picking up Lott
    and Craig but the Bo loss will be a factor...No Doubt.
    								MaB

    re.88
          I'm glad you said that Bo is a big loss, 'cause last year (if my
    sometimes volatile memory serves me right) some faider fans kept
    saying how much of a difference Bo would have made in the Bills game,
    or also, wait til Bo shows up in week ? after Baseball...You remember
    all that type of talk.
    
       Bruce Klosterman might help against the run, but for over the middle
    coverage, forget it.  He had potential until is knee went, IMO.
    
    
       This SHOULD be a good "tough" season within the division.  Are the
    schedules released yet?
    
    	T-bone

    NFL schedules should be out within the next couple of weeks.  They'll
    all be available in the National and USA Today on the day they're
    released and I'm sure many of them will be posted in this conference. 
    Be patient.
    
    John

    Greg Bell better than Allen???? I don't think so. Craig is aging so he
    has an advantage over him. Bell throughout the course of last year,
    when he played, repeatedly ran tentatively. I don't like the fact of
    losing him to another team for nothing though. The Raiders must go
    after LB's and OL in this draft. Buffalo destroyed them last year
    because of their lack of coverage from the LB and safety positions.
    Lott will sure up the safety position.
    
                                    Kenn

    
    	Greg Bell only played a few games last year so he
    can't be judged by that, the year before he had around
    1400 yds. I've been a big fan of Marcus Allen for his
    entire career but he can't run the ball anymore, he's
    too slow. 3rd down out of the backfield is the perfect
    role for him now.
    
    
    Vinny

    You obviously didn't see too much of Marcus last year then. He had an
    excellent season. Any back in the league could rush for over 1,000
    yards behind the Rams OL. Charles White did, Dickerson did, Bell did,
    and if I'm not mistaken, Cleveland Gary did last year.
    
    Getting back to Raider news, the Raiders got LB Winston Moss from Tampa
    Bay for future draft picks. Depending on what the draft picks will be,
    this looks like a good pick up for the silver and black.
    
    
    
                                Kenn

    
    	I did see him quite a alot, he hit the line and fell
    down or he would have a big hole closed because of his
    lack of speed. Since when is 500 yds and under 4 yds a
    carry excellent? He did look better this year than the
    last few, he had maybe 3 good games.
    
    
    Vinny

    Here's the Raiders schedule for the '91 season:
    
    Sept 1.........at Houston, 2:00 pm  (All times Mountain Standard)
    Sept 8.............DENVER, 2:00 pm
    Sept 15......INDIANAPOLIS, 2:00 pm
    Sept 22........at Atlanta, 11:00 am
    Sept 29.....SAN FRANCISCO, 2:00 pm
    Oct 6...........SAN DIEGO, 2:00 pm
    Oct 13.........at Seattle, 7:30 pm
    Oct 20..........L.A. RAMS, 2:00 pm
    Oct 28.....at Kansas City, MNF 7:00 pm
    Nov 3............OPEN DATE........
    Nov 10..........at Denver, 2:00 pm
    Nov 17............SEATTLE, 2:00 pm
    Nov 24......at Cincinnati, 11:00 am
    Dec 1........at San Diego, 6:00 pm
    Dec 8.............BUFFALO, 2:00 pm
    Dec 16.....at New Orleans, MNF 7:00 pm
    Dec 22........KANSAS CITY, 2:00 pm
    
    All games capitalized are home games.
    
    Carlos
    
                   
    

    In yesterdays draft, here are the Raiders selections;
    
    1-Todd Marinovich  QB USC
    2-Nick Bell     RB Iowa
    4-Raghib "The Rocket" Ismail  WR Notre Dame
    
    The Raiders didn't have a 3rd round pick, I believe it went to Tampa
    in the Winston Moss deal. I really like Marinovich and Bell. Bell is
    6-2 and wieghs 252. He runs a 4.45 40 and has good hands. His stock
    dropped as the draft got closer however many people feel it was a steal
    for the Raiders. They made a trade with Seattle to obtain the pick. I'm
    not sure of the details on the trade.
    
    With Ismail the Raiders retain his rights for 4 years, the length of
    his Canadien contract, and have the right of first refusal forever.
    
    Kenn

    
    I read in the paper last weekend that Lyle Alzado has a brain
    tumor.  He will be taking chemotheraphy for the tumor.  He
    also got into a scuffle with a policewoman at his home.  The
    policewoman alleges that Alzado pushed her against a balcony
    railing.  Lyle's doctors told the judge that with the tumor
    he would be incapable of doing what the policewoman said.
    
    I guess his speech is slurred and he has trouble walking.
    
    Did anyone else hear about this?
    
    \pjb

    Re .97
    
    Yeah, I read about that too. It's too bad about Alzado, according
    to his physicians the tumor is in-operable and the only treatment
    they can give him is radiation, chemo-therapy type stuff.
    
    Re .96
    
    I agree, so far the Raiders are doing a solid job in the draft.
    Marinovich could turn out to be the Raiders future QB if he can
    put the past behind him and clean it up a little. Nick Bell...
    another great pick-up by the Raiders, though they weren't really
    hurting at this position. Picking Ismail in the 4th might end up
    being a wasted pick, but then again he might end up hating Canada
    in which case the Raiders will make out like bandits.
    
    Carlos 

    Alzado has suffered a stroke, due to his brain cancer.
    
    I haven't seen any comment about recovery, either the stroke or the
    cancer.
    
    lEe

    Here's a list of players that the Raiders picked up in the draft.
    Players are listed by round, overall selection, name, position,
    and school.
    
    1   (24) Todd Marinovich, QB, Southern Cal.
    2   (43) Nick Bell, RB, Iowa
    4  (100) Raghib Ismail, WR, Notre Dame
    6  (146) Nolan Harrison, DT, Indiana
    8  (213) Brian Jones, LB, Texas
    8  (219) Todd Woulard, LB, Alabama A&M
    9  (247) Tahaun Lewis, DB, Nebraska
    10 (274) Andrews Glover, TE, Grambling
    12 (330) Dennis Johnson, WR, Winston-Salem
                                              
    
    Carlos
                                    

    
    	Anybody know why Nick Bell lasted so long, we was rated
    2nd best player in the draft! some people had him going in
    the top 10.
    
    
    Vinny

      Moranovich future QB?  Didn't faider fans say that about Buerlin and
    Shroeder as well?
    
      The good move for la was to take the rights of the Rocket man.
    
    	Tim

    
    	USA Today reported that Nick Bell has a knee problem
    that might require surgery.
    
    
    Vinny

      Read in the paper today that Alzado was being arrained for hitting a
    female officer somehere in California....I wonder if it has something
    to do with his brain illness or stupidity?
    
    	Tj

    
    Something funny is going on here.  Alzado's lawyer says he is
    practically unable to stand up, and couldn't have done it.  Is the cop
    an LA cop?  I wonder if they are trying to get out from under the
    backlash?
    
    BTW-  If any of you Raider fans would like a little graphic thingy that
    makes your prompt look like a offishul Raiders' helmet, I have somethin
    filed away.  Before one of you non-technoweenies get horrified at the
    thought that I may have lost my Nontechnoweenies Club Memberrship Card
    (and therefore the precidency), my customer created this command file,
    and he mailed it to me.  All of the thousands of Phoenix Cardinal fans
    are also in luck, as he made one of those too.  I think there is a
    dragon and a enterprise thingy (as well as his company's logo).  Let me
    know if you want me to mail it to you.
    
    
    Bruce 

    Hi Bruce,
    
    I'll take a copy of that Raider helmet thingy too if you don't mind.
    
    Any news on Raider #2 draft pick Nick Bells injury?
    
    Carlos

    Here's the Raider's pre-season schedule, all times MST:
    
    San Francisco at Raiders  Sat. July 27th, 2pm
    Raiders -vs- Miami Sat. Aug. 3rd, 8pm, American Bowl '91 at Tokyo
    Raiders at Dallas Mon. Aug. 12th, 6pm
    Chicago at Raiders Sat. Aug. 17th, 2pm
    Raiders at San Diego Fri. Aug. 23, 8pm
    
    Carlos

      Raiders vs San diego for last pre-season?   Thats a strange...

>      Raiders vs San diego for last pre-season?   Thats a strange...
    
    I don't know if it's a annual preseason thing between these teams,
    but they did play each other in the preseason last year also.
    
    Joe

    >>I don't know if it's a annual preseason thing between these teams,
    >>but they did play each other in the preseason last year also.
    
    Hi Joe, it's gotta be an annual thing, because they also played
    San Fran., Dallas, and Chicago last year too. The only difference
    is last year they played the Saints at Wembley, and this year they're
    playing the Dolphins in Tokyo.
    
    Carlos  (also-too huh? oh well!)
    

 No, it's a good ole boys thing. We schedule the teams that are close together
 geographically so that we can cut down on traveling expenses and increase our
 own booty. The coaches like it cause they get to work out at their own 
 facilities. The players cause it keeps them closer to their familes. Atleast
 some players...;^)

 mike

    >We schedule the teams that are close together geographically so
    >that we can cut down on traveling expenses and increase our own
    >booty.
    
    As thin as Uncle-Al is, he could stand to have his booty increased,
    coach Shell on the other hand would probably be better off with
    some lippo-suction! :-)
    
    Carlos

    >                -< Looks like LA will lose opener;^ >-
    
    Tim, do you mean the pre-season opener against San Fran, the regular
    season opener against Houston, or there first home game opener against
    the Donks??  
    
    > Moranovich future QB? Didn't faider fans say that about Buerlin
    > and Shroeder as well?
    
    Marinovich definetly has the potential to be the Raiders future
    QB, but I doubt it will be the immediate future. Keep in mind that
    the Raiders also have the Canadian bench warmer Major Harris on
    hold, though he may never amount to much ??? Steve Beurlein is an
    excellent back-up, and I'd be interested to see how Mr. Ed's stats
    compared to Schroeder's last year. Speaking of Mr. Ed, I don't think
    he'll be around much longer, who do the donk's have waiting to take
    the reins after Elway ????  Kubiak ??? HaaHa! That's a laugher.... 
    
    > The good move for LA was to take the rights of the Rocket man.
    
    Agreed, having the rocket in the pocket can't hurt. You gotta also
    love the Nick Bell steal in the second round. 
    
    Carlos

>    ...Steve Beurlein is an
>    excellent back-up, 
    
    Moderator, this comment needs to be moved to the Sports.Joke topic.
    Thanks.  :^) :^)
    
    Joe
    

    re-1
    
      Rollin' on that Joe!!
    
      Re-2    I don't love anything the faiders do...except lose of course.
    
      Also Kubiak is a good backup.  He would be better if he had more
    playing time, which of course won't happen if Elway stays healthy.  
    Kubiak could be a starter on many teams that are in need of a QB,
    someone like maybe the Faiders, colts, pats, bears, and Chargers.
    
    	Tim

    
    T-bone
    
    	There's no way Kubiak would start for anybody else in the
    	league.  His passes look like the ducks LuFay shoots at....
    	wounded and wobbly.  :*)
    
    Claybone

       Claybone,  Thats why I stated Kubiak would be better if he played
    more.  Bench warming for 7 years doesn't bring the best out of a
    person.
    
    
      Gary has his days and then he gives the other team their day.
    
      It don't matter since the faiders still need a QB!!!
    
    	Tim

    > You're just now replying?
    
    So call me slow.....it's just that I like to take my time and think
    things through....:-)
    
    Re. to Kubiak being a starter:
    
    I'm gonna have to agree with Claybone, Tim, ....you're reaching,
    Although you could probably make a good case for Kubiak starting
    for the pats.
    
    
    > The faiders still need a QB?
    
    And they're working on it, but the Donks are also gonna need a QB
    (especially after Mr. Ed turns in another sour year) but they don't
    have anyone in particular in mind. Or do they ???
    
    > faiders in 1991 = 8-8 season if they're lucky
    
    First you're reaching then you're dreaming....you probably fantasize
    that two of these losses are to the powerful Donks too huh?? :-)
    
    Seriously tho, it could happen. I think that all of the AFC West teams
    will be tough to beat this year.
    
    Carlos

>>    Agreed, having the rocket in the pocket can't hurt. You gotta also
>>    love the Nick Bell steal in the second round.

     Nick Bell slipped to the 2nd round because he has a bad knee. I think 
     I remember reading he had surgery on his knee a few days after the 
     draft. I maybe wrong, but I pretty sure.

  Chuck

    Well I think the Raiders did alot to improve themselves.  Marinovich is
    a reach, but the Raiders seem to do well with reaches, so maybe this
    one will pan out for them too.  Bell?  I dunno.  It's odd to see him
    rated sooo high and drop so far.  Somethin' was up, maybe bad knees.
    
    Chargers really strengthened the D up the middle.  Broncos are pinning
    alot on Croel, not sure he's up to the task.  Seahawks I didn't follow.
    And Chiefs I don't remember, but you get the feeling that the Raiders,
    Chargers and Chiefs are on the way up, while the Broncos and Seahawks
    are either holding steady or dropping.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

    
    A certain Buffalo running back also dropped to the second round due to
    supposedly bad knees. Have not had many complaints the last three years
    though.
    
    Nick R

    Everything that I've read questioned Bells toughness as a runner. He
    does have a knee problem but nothing that serious. I like the pick
    because the raiders are getting old at running back.
    
    Once again we will hear how Schroeder is a stiff and he doesn't belong
    in the league. Once again the Raiders will win the division and
    everyone will still be calling him a stiff. They could win the Super
    Bowl and everyone would find a reason to call him a stiff. All year
    people said the  defense was carrying the offense, well I didn't see
    Jay out there playing "D" when the Bills lit them up for 51 points.
    I know he threw 5 ints., but when everyone in the world knows your
    gonna pass what can you do. He's no super star, but neither is
    Hostetler and the Giants won the Bowl with him.
    
    Kenn

      Winning the division?   We will see,  but don't bet your house on it!

    One month from now the Raiders will play the gay-bay 9'ers in their
    first pre-season game......football season's almost here :-)
    
    Carlos

================================================================================
Note 40.127              The Raiders-'90 AFC West Champs              127 of 127
ELMAGO::CGRIEGO                                       4 lines  27-JUN-1991 15:56
                      -< Marinovich=Montana of the 90's >-
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    What's that mean, both out of football by 1993?

    The Raiders began their training camp on Sunday the 7th. You can
    bet they'll be practicing on ways to stop the no huddle type of
    offense that the Bills killed'em with in the AFC Championship game
    (more like blow-out). 
    
    Carlos

    Also forgot to mention that second string QB Steve Beuerlein signed 
    a two year contract, and rookie RB Nick Bell also signed.
    
    Carlos
    

    Carlos, how the hail are the ChaRaiders(tm) gonna use the no-huddle
    when Schroeder can barely remember the plays after a regular huddle?

    Junior (?), re-read it bro-ski, I didn't say that the Raiders are
    gonna practice the no-huddle offense, but, that they're gonna practice
    ways to stop it (defense). You can bet that after the way the Bills
    whacked the Raiders using the no-huddle, that other teams might
    try using it against the Raiders too. Que no ?
    
    Carlos

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
    
    I saw no huddle, I saw a raving Carlos, I saw Raiders getting thrashed.
    I guess I shoulda read on.

    Raiders first round draft pick, QB Todd Marinovich has missed three
    days of practice, and there are still several veterans that remain
    unsigned.......not to good. Coach Shell says that coaching is his
    business and not contracts.
    
    Carlos

    The paper this morning has Marcus Allen, Jeff Gossett, and Jeff Jaeger,
    all agreeing to terms. the Raiders also cut Ron Burton(lb), Brian Sap
    and Sean Moore(rb), Sean Smith (wr), and Rob Flory(ot). Also it says
    that tight end Mike Dyal was put on the
    physically-unable-to-perorm-list. Can anyone give us more information
    on this.

    Marinovich signed over the weekend, don't know the contract terms.
    
    
    py

    >Marinovich signed over the weekend, don't know the contract terms.
    
    The financial terms were not disclosed, but it is a three year deal.
    Marinovich was the 24th player selected in the draft, and was the
    7th first-rounder to sign a contract. He was on the field for
    a walk-through with the teams veterans Sunday morning, then
    participated in the afternoon practice. He ran the offense for a
    limited number of plays as the 4th string QB. No report on how well
    he did.
    
    
    Carlos
    

 >    Marinovich was the 24th player selected in the draft, and was the
 >  7th first-rounder to sign a contract. He was on the field for
 >   a walk-through with the teams veterans Sunday morning, then
 >   participated in the afternoon practice. He ran the offense for a
 >   limited number of plays as the 4th string QB. No report on how well
 >   he did.
    
    
 He's better than anyone else they have at that posistioN. If he gets his head
 on straight he'll be a star. Too bad he's on the wrong team. Too bad he has to
 throw to Gault....

 sidebar question: Did my good buddy Mr. X aka Stevie_boy make it through the
 recent cutbacks?

 mike

    I heard that Marinovich has a part of his salary held back by the
    Raiders, to be paid after 3 (?) years if he "behaves", whatever that
    means.
    
    Any details?
    
    lEe

thanks Jeff give him our best Elway is Gay cheer...

    I've been meaning to enter some brief profiles about some of the
    players that the Raiders drafted this spring, and now that I've
    finally remembered to bring in the May issue of Raider News I'll
    try to enter them in whenever possible. Since we've been discussing
    Marinovich, and since he was the Raiders first round pick, I'll
    start with him:
    
    Round 1, (24th player taken)
    
    Todd Marinovich, QB, 6'4", 220lbs, USC
    
    Possesses all the tools you look for in a top-level blue chip prospect;
    size, arm strength, maturity, field vision, and intelligence ...
    Left handed passer very calm under pressure with a smooth, quick
    release ... Father, Marv, was a three year letterman at USC and
    both played for and coached with the Raiders ... Entered draft
    following sophomore year ... Started 11 games last season, completing
    60% of passes (196 of 322) for 2,423 yds and 13 touchdowns ... Added
    a touchdown on a nine yard scoring reception ... Was named PAC 10
    Player of the Week following a 338 yrd performance ... In 1989 he
    became the first freshman to earn all-Pac-10 honors after ranking
    3rd in conference, and 19th nationally with a 133.2 passing efficiency
    rating ... Redshirted as a freshmen ... Has the third best season
    in Trojan history ... Was drafted by the Calif. Angels in 1988 as a 
    pitcher, despite never having played baseball in high school ...
    Then of course, there's the thing he is probably most recognized for, 
    the drug controversy. :-(  The magazine goes on to show all of Todd's
    high school accomplishments (which are also pretty impressive) but
    I think you guys get the picture, if not I'll sum it up to say the
    guy's a winner on the football field.
    
    Carlos
    
    P.S.
       If anybody's interested in getting a subscription to the 'Raider
       News' magazine, which comes out monthly during the off season
       and bi-monthly during the season, let me know.
      
    

As I've said before, I wish Marinovich the best.  He seems to have decent skills,
but I fear that being with the raiders, he will be too influenced by his father,
who, in my opinion ruined the kid's life.  The pressure his dad put on him (as 
portrayed by a couple of SI articles over the past few years) is what I suspect
led him to his drug 'problem'.

=Bob=

    Hi Bob, I've read other replies similar to yours about how Marinovich's
    father has really been a negative influence in his life (or something
    to that effect) . I haven't read any of the SI articles though,
    and was wondering in what ways has his father ruined his life?
    
    In a (sort of) related interview with coach Shell, the coach was asked
    if he had any problems with Marinovich's character, and his off
    field problems. He replied, "Players draw alot of publicity. As
    always we research the background of every player we select in the
    draft and we feel pretty good about Todd Marinovich. We know everything
    there is to be known about him. We've researched it and talked about
    it. We feel his future is ahead of him, we don't foresee any problems
    at all."
                  
    Carlos

    Carlos, I read the articles but can't remember the details.  I do
    recall that his father put a tremendous amount of pressure on him to
    succeed in football.  Seems that no matter what he did, his Dad would
    point out a weakness or failure in his performance.  
    
    Bob, you probably have more info.  Please detail some of it for us.
    
    lEe

It's been a while since I read this stuff, so bear with me if there are any 
inaccuracies:

From what I remember about the articles, Todd was basically bred to be a 
QUARTERBACK.  Not a football player, but a quarterback.  His dad decided 
before he was born that he wanted his son to be a football star, and specifically
a QB.  He focused him at an early age, and controlled every athetic breath the 
kid took.  Perhaps the most publicized thing was that Todd has (had?) NEVER 
eaten at McDonalds, because Marv (dad) wouldn't have his son eat junk food.  

Todd was perhaps the greatest high school QB ever, the comparisons were made
with Joe Namath (could never spell his name).  Through all this, dad was always
Todd's worst critic.  He would make the kid watch hours of films, etc., and
always offer his criticism.  Somewhere in the mix, his parents got divorced, and 
Todd got closer to his mother, whe nurtured his interest in art (his college 
major), and seems to want Todd to be happy, no matter what he does.

I don't recall how he ended up at USC, but I know that dad kept tabs on him 
while there.  The first article in SI was written before he started there, and 
the second was after last season.

Basically my point of view is that the kid has been dominated, and had enormous
pressure put on him.  At 22 (or however old he is), it got to him, and he 
couldn't get along with his teammates and coaches, and got involved in drugs 
as the ultimate rebellion.  I remeber reading that when he got arrested, his 
mother bailed him out, and he was crying, saying that he had just blown his 
entire future.

As I said before, I wish him the best, and hope he can be a happy and effective 
football player.

=Bob=

    Marv Marinovich is the ultimate pushy parent.  I wish Todd had been
    drafted by someone other than a local team.  Marv is very close with Al
    Davis, however, and this could turn into a difficult situation.
    
    John

    I've always wondered, with such intense focus on a single goal, what
    will happen when Todd reaches the inevitable end of his football
    career.  For Todd's sake, I hope it doesn't end by injury, 'cause I
    have a feeling that Dad would be a royal pain in the rear if that's the
    case.  Like John, I wish the guy good luck -- I have a feeling he's
    going to need it.
    
    A&W

    >Is it
    >wrong to get them to reach their potential, instead of letting them
    >flounder and get lazy (which is what they do)? 
    
    In the case of Marv Marinovich, who pushed son Todd to the extreme, it
    appears the answer is yes.  Instead of guiding, he forced.  He
    attempted to control every single aspect of Todd's life, and, in
    effect, chose Todd's career while he was still in the womb.  The
    general sense I got is that he robbed him of his childhood to further
    his own dreams of siring a QB.  Is that right?
    
    What you get in this day and age is rebellion.  Todd regressed in his
    time at USC and became a devisive factor on the team.  He made poor
    choices which he may have overcome.  He's 21 or 22 years old, and
    somehow, I doubt that his days of rebellion against authority are over.
    
    Dan

    Basically, my recallection of the articles I read pretty much follow
    what Dan said.
    
    It is one thing to push kids in the way of guidance (I'm certain that
    is what you do Hawk ;^)) and what Todd's dad did.  
    
    As best I recall, the first article I read was not judgemental towards
    Marv, and focused on Todd's future, and what he could become.  I just
    think that everyone who read it came to a similar conclusion, and it
    became a fact.
    
    I agree that nobody forced Todd to get into drugs, I just don't think
    it was the "big bucks, arrogant athlete" getting into it for fun, or
    whatever.  Once again, I wish Todd luck (that was me A&W), and hope
    that LA is not the wrong place for him.
    
    =Bob=

    Isn't Todd the one who never had McDonald's food or a coke (cola)?
    
    I remember reading something like that, in SI, a long while back...
    
    

    Yup, he's the one.  Programmed from birth to be a QB, never had junk
    food, mom was on a very special diet all through pregnancy, dad spared
    no effort or expense to make him great.
    
    I agree that some degree of parental push is important but I think dad
    took it a bit too far.
    
    John

Can you say "Daddy Dearest"?

Hawk 

In your case, it was probably BECAUSE of McD's that she hit those dingers... ;^)

Many people can probably relate to Marv's actions, and there may have been cases
in the past when parents' influence has pushed an athlete to stardom.  Somebody 
correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Mickey Mantle's dad have similar tendancies?

Also, there is a big difference between pushing and making sacrifices for kids
who are talented.  A friend of mine was a great bicycle racer when he was a kid,
and had his sites set on the Olympics (this was pre Greg Lamond, so cycling 
wasn't that big a sport).  Anyway, he had a crash on a training ride one day.  
His bike was banged up, his riding clothes and shoes were ripped, but he wasn't 
badly hurt.  He got up the next morning, and found his clothes and shoes sewn,
and his bike repaired.  His dad had stayed up all night working on it.  To me 
that is sacrifice.

=Bob=

>but didn't Mickey Mantle's dad have similar tendancies?
    
    From what I've read of Mutt Mantle's relationship with his son, no, he
    wasn't similar.  And recall that Mickey grew up in Oklahoma in the '30s
    and '40s which is a world of difference to kids growing up in the '70s
    and '80s.  Mutt Mantle (as described by Mickey) certainly "guided" his
    son, and certainly helped develop him as a player (switch hitter, moral
    lesson about quitting) and certainly sacrificed for his son (a miner
    who died of black lung disease).  But I've never heard a source claim
    anything negative about what he did.
    
    Marinovich is not the natural physical speciman that Mickey Mantle was
    to baseball.  He is/was referred to as RoboQB because so much of what
    he did was so perfectly textbook.  He probably owes his football career
    to his father, because if he hadn't have developed him physically and
    taught him and drilled him on the game, there's probably a lot better
    "born quarterbacks".
    
    Personally, I was pretty disappointed in Todd's development last year
    and I thought it was a reflection on his abilities having finally found
    their level.  Perhaps it was more emotional immaturity that help him
    back, and he will go on to have a good career.  It will go a long way
    to finding out if you can make an athlete or not, which I don't know if
    it's necessarily a good thing.
    
    Dan

      It don't matter,  the faiders still need a QB

  The biggest thing I remember about the Mick was that when his father pitched
  to him he batted right handed and when his grandfather pitched to him he bat-
  ted left handed or vice versa...

  Dan, you're disappointment in Todd's development is natural after all he
  set some pretty high standards for himself with his freshman year performance.
  I tend to think his lack of development last year had more to do with his
  off field activites. I think the Raiders made a steal. Heck the kid hasn't
  even played a game yet and he's already the best QB in the paltry AFC West...

  mike

  Dan, you're disappointment in Todd's development is natural after all he
  set some pretty high standards for himself with his freshman year performance.
  I tend to think his lack of development last year had more to do with his
  off field activites. I think the Raiders made a steal. Heck the kid hasn't
  even played a game yet and he's already the best QB in the paltry AFC West...

  mike
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


I'm dissapointed with you Mike.  Seattle has a QB that consistently is rated at 
the top of the heap very similar to a NY GIANTS QB that basically sucks wind 
but can lead the league with QB ratings. 

Jeff

    Todd must have been brain washed enough to start to think and believe
    that HE did indeed WANT to be a pro quarterback. 
    
    I am reminded of the young actor in Dead Poets Society, whose dad insisted
    he would be a doctor, over the young man's constant resistance.....that 
    kid rebelled, as many teenagers have! (I will not spoil it for any who 
    have not seen this very good movie by telling you how).  
    
    
    

    	My father never pushed me.  He preferred straight rights to
    the chin.
    
    				/Don

    Haven't had a chance to get in here 'til now, that's some pretty
    good stuff about Todd's relationship to his father. I'm curious
    to know if Todd ever had anything either bad or good to say about
    his pop in these articles, cause I guess anybody can say anything
    about somebody else's parents but only the child really knows if
    their parents are good or bad. 
    
    Re. .165 
    
    Don, Don't know if you were joking or if you were serious but your
    reply brings out a very good point with regards to all of this. There
    are a lot worse kinds of parents out there than Todd's. If Marv's 
    biggest sins as a parent were that he didn't let his son eat junk food,
    and he pushed him to success, well then he's better than lots of
    others out there.
    
    Carlos

    Here's a brief profile on the Raiders #2 pick.
    
    Round 2, (43rd player taken)
    Nick Bell, RB, 6'2", 250lbs, Iowa
    
    Bruising inside runner with tremendous quickness for a player his
    size ... Possesses massive thighs and powerful legs and is known
    to drive through his would-be tacklers ... Accelerates well through
    the holes ... Displays flashy cutback back ability and is an effective
    receiver coming out of the backfield ... Versatile athlete who can
    play both halfback, and fullback ... Performed on schools track
    team as a sprinter ... Named to numerous All-American teams and
    earned All-Big Ten honors following senior season in which he led
    team in rushing with 945 yards and 10 touchdowns on 155 carries
    (6.1 yard average) ... Also caught 18 passes for 223 yards and a
    pair of scores ... Averaged 106.2 all-purpose yards per game as
    a senior ... Named Offensive Most Valuable Player as a junior ...
    And like #1 Marinovich, Bell also has an impressive high school
    list of accomplishments. He sounds kind of like a Bo Jackson that
    can catch. 
    
    Carlos

RE .166

Carlos

I don't recall many quotes directly from Todd about his father in either article.
Once again, it has been a while, so maybe I'm wrong.  While I'm sure there are
worse parents out there, to me the two most damaging things a parent can do is
either to totally dominate their kid (like Slasher's dad 8^), and Marv), or not 
care and ignore their kids.  Either one of these things usually lead to problems
in the long run.

=Bob=

BTW - Where is Todd on the depth chart?  Isn't he #3 right now?  I didn't expect
       him to play much this year.

    =Bob=, I think you're right about him being #3, I don't see Vince
    Evans name on this years roster. He might even make it to #2 or
    even #1 by the end of pre-season ('specially if his old man gets
    on his case ........ uhemmm ... sorry couldn't resist :-).
                                    
    Next in line on the Raider draftee profiles is Raghib Ismail who
    was selected in the fourth round. But, I think that because he probably
    won't be playing in the NFL for some time (if ever), plus the fact
    that everybody already knows everything about him, I'll just skip him,
    and move on to the Raiders sixth round pick:
    
    Round 6 (146th player taken)
    Nolan Harrison, DT, 6-5, 290 Indiana
    
    Possesses all the physical tools, with fine size, speed, strength and
    long arms ...  Very athletic and has shown ability to neutralize
    blocker at point of attack and utilize the power rush ... Sat out
    senior season for disciplinary reasons ... Starter at defensive
    tackle in 1989, earning All-Big Ten Honorable Mention honors ...
    Recorded numerous tackles, sacks, and blocked passes during his
    college career ... Redshirted as a freshman ... Was a high school 
    letterman in football, track, and wrestling.   
    
    
    Carlos
                           
    (By the way, who's slasher?)

    OT, Bruce Wilkerson agreed to terms today leaving the Raiders with
    only three unsigned veterans left: Pro-Bowl C, Don Mosebar, and 
    defensive linemen Scott Davis, and Bob Golic. They really need to
    get these knuckle-heads signed, especially Mosebar, and Davis.
    
    Carlos
    

    Next in draftee profiles......
    
    Round 8 (213th player taken)
    
    Brian Jones LB, 6-1, 240 Texas
    
    Great run defender who gets into the backfield in a flash to make
    the big play ... Has great upper body strength with tremendous agility
    for a player his size, using foot speed to slide away from blocks
    ... Joined Longhorns prior to his junior year after transferring
    from UCLA ... All Southwest Conference selection while starting
    all year at middle linebacker as senior and leading team in tackles
    with 116 hits along with 3 sacks and 5 stops for losses ... Credited
    with 8 QB pressures and a pair of pass deflections while causing
    5 fumbles and recovering another one ... Also led team in tackles
    as a junior with 108 ... Redshirted as a freshman at UCLA, and missed
    his sophomore year due to a back injury ... Lettered in football,
    track, baseball, and basketball in high school
    
    
    Also forgot to mention that the Raiders traded future draft picks to 
    Tampa Bay for LB, Winston Moss. Don't know too much about him though.
    
    Carlos                                                    
                                                   

      Still need a q?

    Winston Moss is the man responsible for keeping such high draftees as
    Keith McCants and Broderick Thomas on the bench their rookie season!
    He will replace Jerry Robinson as the cover man on passing situations.
    He should be a fulltime player. 
    
    The raiders really need to get moesbar and Golic into camp. I'm a big
    Scott Davis fan, but the Raiders still have last years #1 pick, anthony
    Smith, waiting in the wings. Davis finally came into his own last year
    and he really needs this year to develope into a premiere DL.
    
    Kenn

    > Still need a q?
    
    Tim, not as bad as you guys need a 'd' !   :-)
    

    I saw Lyle Alzado on CNN two nights ago. Geez....he looks like hell. 
    
    What was really striking is that CNN in my town is Channel 63. On 62 is
    a comedy channel. Guess who was a guest host ?
    
    Yep - Alzado. This must have been taped a year ago when he was trying
    to make the Raiders. I flipped back and forth .... real sad to see.
    
    Doc

Yeah, 

He and his wife were on Larry King Live.  Tough to see him so fragile
looking...


'Saw

    Wierd...I saw alzado with the bandana on his head all skinny and sikly
    and decided to switch to the comedians at 11:00 on cha 3 and there he
    was hosting the show...I took a double take....Now a triple take. 
    Still feel for the guy....(Great comedians that night).
    							M_Air_B

    Re -1
    
    Read in yesterdays paper that the multiple tumors in Alzado's brain
    have shrunk considerably after his second chemo treatment, but the
    doctor warned that the success rate for treating this type of cancer
    was very low. It's hard to see such a powerful man being eaten up
    by an enemy he can't even see or fight back (physically) against,
    I just hope that the Lord would comfort him and his family and friends
    throughout this whole trajic ordeal.
    
    
    Carlos

    Next on the draftee profiles is the Raiders eighth round pick...
    
    (219th player taken)
    Todd Woulard, LB, 6-1 230 Alabama A&M
    
    Agile and active linebacker who knows how to utilize quickness and
    strength to get to ball carrier ... Has shown brilliance as pass
    rusher ... Very athletic with excellent speed and lateral movement
    ... Earned Little All-American honors as senior after recording
    team-high 23 1/2 sacks ... Also recorded 59 total tackles and recovered
    one fumble in 1990 to earn Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
    Defensive Player of the Year honors ... As a junior had a hand in
    62 stops to place third on team and registered team-high 10 1/2
    sacks, which placed him second in SIAC ... Also lettered in track
    and field as a javelin thrower ... Also lettered in basketball,
    baseball, and football in high school .
                                           
    
    Carlos

    Is Marinovich hurt or just not ready to play yet?  I didn't see any of
    his stats in the box.
    
    Joe

      So did the ex-49'rs "tear" up there old team?  Maybe Lott putting the
    hurt on Rice?   Just curious.......

    Lott made one jarring tackle.  Craig rushed for 34 yards on 6 carries -
    but he also coughed the ball up once, leading to a Raiders' score.
    
    JD

    >Craig rushed for 34 yards on 6 carries - but he also coughed the
    >ball up once, leading to a Raiders' score.
                                   ^
                                   |
                                   |
    Should read ----------------Niners' score. The final outcome was
    24-17 49'ers. I believe that Craig's 34 yards was the game high
    in rushing yardage for either team. Rookie Nick Bell rushed for
    14 yards on 4 carries (no biggie) and also, rookie TE Andrew Glover
    caught one pass for 8 yards. I haven't put Glover's profile in here
    yet, but I think that this guy's gonna turn out to be a starter
    within the next couple of years. The overall stats were pretty even
    except for the Raiders QB's got sacked ~5 times.....gotta sign
    Mosebar...and speaking of signing, Bob Golic signed this weekend
    just leaving Mosebar, and Scott Davis (I think?).
    
                                    
    Carlos   P.S. Funny personal_name JD.  I guess with a name like
                  Pee-Wee it's kinda hard to get a date.

    Oh yeah, forgot to mention, for all you Schroeder bashers out there
    that I was reading through one of the pre-season football annual
    type magazines (can't remember which one?) and it said that Schroeder 
    was second only to Montana in most games won to lost ratio-when
    starting amongst all presently active QB's. Can't remember the exact 
    stats either though.....
    
    Carlos

      re-1
    
      That could be true,  but remember that the faider defense won them
    alot of those games.  The QB win/loss stats can be deceptive.  I know
    you don't like Elway,  but look at how many games he and the offense
    scores 20+ points, and lose.  In other words,  Denvers "D" was lackin',
    when the offense was scoring.  Of course it goes both ways.
    
    
       Still bottom line, is most people feel that LA needs a "potent" QB. 
    I know that if they did,  they would be more consistent in the W
    column.  Beleive me,  I don't mind the inconsistency ;^^^
    
    		Tim

    >                      -< Did Evans retire yet? >-
    
    No why? Is Denver looking for a more youthful QB? :-) Seriously
    though, he isn't listed on the rosters that I've got but he played
    last weekend. He's a good athelete and exciting to watch but he's
    not that good of a QB (IMHO), plus he's getting older. I don't think
    that, should the need arise, he could lead the team to the big dance
    and win it. I think perhaps 2nd string QB, Beuerlein, could do this,
    and I also think that Schroeder will do this. (hopefully this year)
    As for rookie Marinovich, I'll go along with what somebody else
    said about him, 'He can be as good as he wants, or he can throw
    it all away.' . As for what you said about 'if L.A. had a more potent
    QB they would win more games' (very loose paraphrase by me) , I
    think that this could just as truthfully be said about Montana or
    any other QB in the league. While I agree that a better QB would
    mean more 'consitent' wins, I 'll say that Schroeder did alot to
    improve last year and (again MHO) can no longer be labeled
    inconsistent. Besides, since when is 12-4 inconsistent? I'll agree
    too though that the defense had alot to do with 12-4.
    
    Carlos 

    An article in the USA Today last week listed Marinovich as fourth
    string behind: Schroeder, Buerlien, and Evans. Unless they trade
    Buerlien, Ican't see Evans making the team. I agree with Carlos that is
    is just not that good of a QB. I would really like to see Moesbar sign
    before the next game.
    
    Lets hope that this year everyone doesn't get all worked up over the
    preseason like they did last year. It seemed like all the discussions
    in the notes file were about the importance of preseason games.

    Carlos, Schroeder got most of them wins as a 'skin

    Re. -1  I'd be interested to know how his stats compare between
            starting for the 'Skins and starting for the Raiders.
            Maybe John Hendry or somebody else can help out? I'd bet 
            that the majority of his starts for the Raiders have been 
    	    wins.
    
      Here's a brief profile on the Raiders 9th round draft pick:
    
    (247th player taken)
    Tahaun Lewis, CB, 5-10, 175, Nebraska
    
    Exceptionally quick pass defender with fine leaping ability ...
    Has a decisive burst of speed in the open and displays sure hands
    for the interception ... Effective bump-and-run artist who rarely
    gives a receiver a big cushion ... Started nine games at right CB,
    recording 24 tackles with two interceptions, a pair of passes defensed,
    a fumble recovery for the Cornhuskers in 1990 ... All-Big Ten Honarable
    Mention as a junior after becoming starter at right CB ... Tied
    team record with eight passes deflected ... As a sophomore served
    as a nickel back in ten games ... lettered in track as a sprinter
    ... Also lettered in football, baseball, and track in high school.
    
    Carlos

>    Tahaun Lewis, CB, 5-10, 175, Nebraska
>    ... All-Big Ten Honarable
>    Mention 
    
    I think you meant All-Big 8, Carlos.

    Re -1 Oooops sorry, I guess you can tell that I'm not to much for
          college ball. I copied the article from a Raider News magazine
          and they had it as -Big 10. Oh well, here's another profile
          from a guy that I think is gonna turn out to be a star, he
          played last weekend against S.F. and made one reception, hoping
          to see him play against the Dolphins this weekend....
    
    Round 10
    (274th player chosen)
    Andrew Glover, TE, 6-6, 225, Grambling
    
    Tall, rangy target with soft hands, excellent jumping ability and
    speed for his size ... Versatile athlete who excelled in three sports
    at Grambling ... Not only played football but was a three-year starter
    at center in basketball and Southwestern Athletic Conference triple
    jump champion in track in both 1989 and 1990 ... Played in ten games
    as a senior, catching 10 passes for 246 yards and five touchdowns
    while splitting time between wide receiver and tight end ... Began
    to draw major attention in football as junior when, in NCAA playoff
    game against Stephen F. Austin, caught six passes for 211 yards
    and three touchdowns ... Averaged 22.2 yards per catch as junior
    on 17 receptions for 378 yards and eight touchdowns with career
    long of 73 yards ... Also lettered in football as sophomore, seeing
    action as reserve WR, and TE ... Earned all SWC in basketball as
    senior ... Also lettered in football, basketball, and track in high
    school.
    
    Carlos

      i thought you already mentioned a previous draft pick TE that would
    be a starter/star.  Of course you will let me know if I'm wrong.
    What about Mike Dial?  I thought you "praised" him last year.  He
    seemed to have good hands and was a "crowd" favorite.
    
      Just thought I would ask....
    
    		Tim

    >What about Mike Dial?
    
    Mike Dyal was in the process of becoming one of the Leagues premier
    tight-ends (just ask any of the many FFL'ers who picked him), unfortunately
    he got injured and has not been much of a factor lately. I was
    expecting to see him challenge Horton for his starting job back
    again, but the Raiders recently put him on the physically unable
    to perform list (I think???) so it'll be a while if ever before
    we see him back again. In the mean time the Raiders got a good pickup
    (IMHO) in the 10th round in Glover.  I'm looking forward to seeing
    him, Nick Bell, and maybe even Marinovich play this weekend in Tokyo. 
    Wonder how Howie would do against some of them Sumo (?) wrestlers?
    Or even better, how some of them Sumo's would do on the line?
    
    Carlos

    Still no Marinovich ?? Wonder why..... Andrew Glover caught three
    passes for 10 yds and one TD, Nick Bell caught a dump off screen
    and turned it into 20 yds, he also rushed twice for 7 yds. Lott
    is definitely gonna make an impact this year, he was in on just
    about every defensive play that I saw (only watched the first half
    tho...). 
    
    Carlos

    Can't believe there was that much scoring late in the game.  I change
    over to SNL in the 3rd quarter with LA leading 7-6, then I turn back
    later just to catch the Faiders miss that long field goal at the end
    with the score 19-17.  
    
    I was impressed with old man Evans.  They should make him the starter
    :^).  I'll admit, Schroeder looked pretty good when he had the protection.  
    
    Sure seems odd that Todd "Coke" Marinovich hasn't seen any action.
    
    Joe
                                                                         

      Evans did look suprisingly good.  Buerlin was usually acurate.
    
      This had to have been the slopiest game I have seen in years.  What
    was the total penalties for both teams,  and also by team?  I would
    guess around 40 total flags thrown.  Maybe not all were counted after
    refusal,  but the game did seem to go on and on and on........
    
      The person that showed good potential was #58.  A linebacker.  He
    seemed to be all over the field and was pressuring the QB.  Whats this
    guys name Carlos?
    
         Tim

    Speaking of Schroeder, he came in third behind Marino, and DeBerg
    (I think??), this weekend in the NFL QB Challenge in Hawaii. 
    
    Also forgot to mention that in last weekends Fastest Man Competition,
    Ron Brown came in second in a photo finish to Daryl Green. Another
    Raider, Sam Graddy WR, was also a semi-finalist in this competition.
    
    Carlos

    >#58.....What's this guys name Carlos?
    
    Good question.....I didn't get to see most of the game so I really
    don't know who you're talking about. If he's a new guy tho' he's
    prabably gonna be Winston Moss, Todd Woulard, or Brian Jones. Do
    any of these guys ring a bell, if not I'll try to find out fer sure
    by tomorrow.
    
    Carlos

    >The person that showed good potential was #58. A linebacker. He
    >seemed to be all over the field and was pressuring the QB. What's
    >this guys name?
    
    #58 is A.J. Jimmerson. He was the Raiders eigth round draft choice
    last year. Glad to hear he's doing so well.
    
    Carlos

      #58 just seemed real aggressive.  Kinda like a Thomas or Taylor type. 
    Of course its pre-season.  I have noticed that some players for all teams
    will be this way just to make the team, but then when its time to
    perform during the season, they just seem to fade away...
    
    	Tim

    
    	Anybody know what kind of injury Nick Bell got? they
    carried him off but I didn't hear anything about if it's
    serious or what.
    
    	The Raiders look real deep at all positions.
    
    
    Vinny

    
    >>	The Raiders look real deep at all positions.
    
    Is this in reference to football or "Kama Sutra"?????  (8^0*  (8^)*
    
    
    JaKe
    

    
    	USA Today reports that Nick Bell has a badly pulled
    hamstring, out for probably a month.
    
    
    Vinny

    Ahhhh! that sucks...I was looking forward to him running over some
    people and now I gotta wait about a month. :-( Oh well, we still
    got Allen, Craig, G.Bell, Bo (?), Nappy, Smith, and Mueller. :-)
    
    The Raiders play the new and improved Cowgirls this coming Monday.
    I know it's only pre-season, but it still should be a good game
    to watch, especially after not seeing any football for the last
    few months.
    
    Carlos

      I was suprised at how big N. Bell is.  255lbs and stands tall to. 
    But he didn't seem to have speed,  at least on the few plays that i saw
    him carry.
    
      Carlos,  not all those rbs will make the team.  Mueller and Mccallum
    are probably gone.  Greg Bell might be gone to.  He just hasn't looked
    like the Greg bell of Rams days.
    
      Tj

    >Mueller and McCallum are probably gone.
    
    It would probably be better for them if they were gone anyhow, because
    they're good athletes, but with guys like Allen, Craig, Bo, and
    the old and new Bells, I don't think they'd ever get a chance to
    play except maybe on special teams and stuff like that.
    
    OK, last but not least on the Raider draft profiles is:
    
    Round 12
    (330th player taken)
    Dennis Johnson, WR/CB, 6-1 200lbs., Winston-Salem
    
    Big, strong athlete with excellent speed, quickness and ability
    to go to the ball, whether it's on offense or defense ... Versatile
    athlete who played WR, RB, CB, and free and strong safety at
    Winston-Salem while earning three letters ... Had a hand in 18 tackles
    and recorded 3 passes defensed as a senior ... Also had one tackle
    behind the line of scrimmage ... Lettered in track at Winston-Salem,
    competing in 100 and 200-meters and a member of 400-meter relay
    team ... Lettered in football and basketball in high  school.
    
    Carlos

I love those profiles.  According them every draft pick is a great athlete, 
great ability, etc.  Just once I'd like to read one that says "...No shot at 
making the team, chosen only to fill out draft round..."  8^)

Nothing personal Carlos,or the Raiders, all the profiles for all the teams are
the same.

=Bob=

>I love those profiles.  According them every draft pick is a great athlete, 


Hell, my profile said that I've got 4.9 speed, I can pass block like a maniac,
and I can run block like theres no tomorrow....

In reality, Rich Gedman would give me some stiff competition in a foot race,
and I can't block to save my life...

8^)

    =Bob=, pretty funny huh? I noticed that too, they all sound like
    they're ready for the Pro-Bowl. 
    
    In yesterdays paper there was a picture of Bo, and it said that
    he's been practicing with real pitchers and stuff, good news, hopefully
    we'll see Bo back by next season, maybe even this one????
    
    Carlos

>    In yesterdays paper there was a picture of Bo, and it said that
>    he's been practicing with real pitchers and stuff, good news, hopefully

I practice with real pitchers all the time.  

No good using those virtual pitchers cause the beer keeps falling out.....


hth,
'saw

I wonder if Bo is dumb enough to ever go back to playing football? He's a great
athlete and I'm glad to see him back on the road to recovery but he's got to
realize now that he's got a higher chance of getting a double career ending 
injury playing football.

Personally I think his football career is through....


Metz
 

      I agree with Metz.  Why jeapordize both careers and possibly your
    health, or hip in this case?  He could end up with permanant damage. 
    He is rich, so money shouldn't be an issue.  Don't let your "big ego"
    get in the way Bo.
    
      Tim

    >             -< Will Cowgirls beat the Faiders tonight? >-
    
    
    	Nope! The Raiders win their first pre-season game over the 
    Cowboys, 17-12. The Cowboys are looking pretty good, 'specially 
    that Emmitt guy. The Raiders looked like they did last year, except
    a little rustier. Schroeder did pretty good, I think he's gonna
    have another good year. Marinovich scored his first NFL touchdown,
    and did a whole lot of handing off. The defense just needs a little
    bit of fine tuning, and it wouldn't hurt any if Davis got his butt
    back into camp. They've got two more pre-season games to get the
    bugs out, but I think they'll be ready in time for Houston.
          
    Carlos

    Schroeder played well when given the time to throw the ball. The
    offensive line did not look good. Rory Graves, after making so much
    progress last year, played like sh@t! As a team, their run blocking was
    terrible! Come on Al lets sign Moesbar!!!! Anthony Smith, last years #1
    played well. Aarron Wallace was invisable. Nolan Harrison played well
    in limited action. Why is Ricky Ellison still allowed to guard
    somebody. Winston Moss or Ronnie Lott should have been assigned to
    Novacek and maybe he wouldn't have caught so many passes!
    
    Dallas looke real good on the defensive line. I've read so much about
    Alexander Wright running a 4.1  40 but they didn't attempt to get him
    the ball. Jack Del Rio played like a man possed at middle LB. Send him
    to the Raiders so we can stop watching Riki Ellison have runners cut
    back on him all game.

      We will see how good the man-man coverage is for the Faiders. 
    Houston uses that run n shoot, which means 4 wide outs.  If the man to
    man fails,  then moon & co will eat the defenses lunch.   I'm not sure
    of the soilers defense.  I remember them being inconsistant last year, 
    so who knows how they  will handle schreoder & co.
    
      I missed last nights game,  so I can back up/dispute what Carlos
    said.  To bad.....
    
       Tim

    >The offensive line did not look good.....Come on Al lets sign
    >Mosebar!!!
    
     
    I agree Kenn, the biggest problem for the Raiders so far is the
    offensive line, but like you mentioned Mosebar wasn't there, and
    neither was Wisnieski (sp?), these guys were pro-bowlers last year
    and they're gonna have to start playing if the Raiders are gonna
    improve the situation on the o-line. 
    
    >Aaron Wallace was invisible.
    
    I noticed that too, was he playing????
    
    Ronnie Lott is an excellent addition to the Raiders, he's already
    putting on the hits and it's only pre-season. 
    
    >Nolan Harrison played well in limited action.
    
    I seen him smother E. Smith close to the line of scrimmage after
    Emmitt tryed to cut and slipped a little. Nolan should get better
    with more experience.
    
    >                        -< Ellison S@#KS!!! >-
    
    In pass coverage anyhow, but he's good against the run. IMHO
    
    Carlos

    The Raiders finally signed Mosebar yesterday, which should solidify
    their OL situation. The Raiders also traded Vencie Glenn (signed during
    the plan B period) to Phoenix for a player to be named later.
    
    
    Kenn

    Has anyone heard whether the Raiders are going to go with Marcus
    or one of the other backs this Year?
                             Kevin

    
       OT Bruce Wilkerson was playing with the second team because
    he just signed, that means 3 of the Raiders best linemen did
    not start (2 were not even there). They still didn't look that
    bad against a very good defense line.
    
    
    Vinny

    >                 -< Who's running with the Raiders? >-
    
    
    Kevin, Marcus Allen will probably be considered the #1 guy but I'm
    sure that he will be sharing alot of the running duties with Craig.
    The Raiders 2nd round draft pick, Nick Bell, was looking real good
    too, until he pulled a ham string but I think that once he recovers
    we'll be seeing him get the ball quite a bit, along with possibly
    Greg Bell. So in answer to your question, there really isn't one
    go-to guy, but I think the majority of it will be done by both Allen
    and Craig.  HoH.
    
    Carlos
    
    

    From todays Glob:
    
       A bank robber in Sacramento, Ca., who netted about $25,000 during a
    10-week spree, said he pulled the 2 dozen heists in part to finance
    trips to Los Angeles Raiders football games.
       "The only time I could relax and enjoy myself was when I went to the
    games," Claude Jones, 32, wrote in a letter to Judge David F. Levi
    prior to sentencing. "The Raiders were winning, and I began to believe
    that I was helping them by attending the games. I believed that if I
    didn't go, they would lose."
       Jones was sentenced to nearly 10 years in federal prison and fined
    $5,593.
                                            Denny

    Re. -1     Talk about fan-atics, sheesh!
    
    
    The Raiders play the Bears tommorrow. Wonder if it'll be televised?
    
    Carlos

    The Raiders trimmed down to 60 players yesterday by cutting the
    following players: DB Marcus Wilson, DE Emanuel King, DE Malcom
    Showell, DT Tim Rother, LB Bruce Klostermann, LB Tim Cofield, OG
    Jeff Grimes, RB Charles Young, RB Doug Lloyd, WR Darrel Hopper, WR
    Keith Wright, and WR Stefon Adams.Placed RB Greg Bell OL Todd Peat on
    thewaivered-injured list. DT Mike Wise was placed on the reserve-left
    camp list. They traded TE Bob Tyler to the Colts for an undisclosed
    draft pick. With Wise leaving and Davis out of camp, it looks like
    Nolan Harrison has a good chance of making the team.
    
    
    Kenn

    The Raiders signed DE Scott Davis Yesterday. There is a good article on
    Tim Browns return from knee surgery in the USA Today.
    
    Kenn

    
    
      Raiders beat the Bears on Friday and i heard last Night that the 
    Raiders trade QB Steve Buerlin (sp) to the Cowboys.
    
    Mike

    The Raiders did indeed beat the Bears two Fridays ago, and they
    won the Chargers this Saturday 17-7. They traded Beuerlein to the
    Cowboys for an undisclosed draft pick in 1992, and they also traded
    Newt Harrell, guard, to the Browns for another undisclosed draft
    choice. Beuerlein should replace Stoudt as the 'boys #2 QB, they're
    doing a heck of a rebuilding job down in Dallas and the 'boys are
    gonna be tough to beat pretty soon...
    
    Carlos

    To trim thier roster to 47 , the Raiders cut the following players:
    QB Vince Evans, LB's Jerry Robinson & Brian Jones, KR Ron Brown,
    DB's Dennis Johnson & Derrick Cudrup, DL Mike Charles, OL's Josh
    Taotoai & Rich Stephens, TE Greg Harrell, and WR Mike Alexander.
    
    I'm sure Evans will be picked up as soon as they put someone on IR.
    
    
    
    Kenn

    >I'm sure Evans will be picked up as soon as they put someone on
    >IR.
    
    The Raiders placed RB's Vance Mueller and Nick Bell, and DL Roy
    Hart on IR and picked up Evans, Robinson, and Cudrup.
    
    The Raiders start the season off this weekend against Houston's
    high powered run-and-shoot offense. 
    
    

      re-1
    
      It is quite today;^   Will the faiders be flat again on sunday?  I
    hhope so,  but I'm sure Uncle al and Artie have told them a thing or 2
    by now,  and since it is a rival team they are playing,  well it should
    be interesting.
    
         Tim

    
    
     I think there just getting ready for the big GAG come next Sunday !
    The Donks are gonna show those happless faiders what footballs all
    about.  It sure was nice to see the real Jay Schrader (SP?) back.
    I can't beleive that guy's still starting.
    
    Big Game

    Re to the last couple, c'mon you guys, you're acting like the Donks
    have never been blown away. As far as the Oilers game goes.....
    ...sheesh....two blowouts in a row, I don't know if my heart can
    handle much more of this stuff. Marcus is out for about six weeks
    and Craig will be filling in for him this weekend against the Donks.
    Marcus blames his knee injury on the Astro-turf, and I agree with
    him, that junk should be made illegal! I'm looking forward to Sundays
    game and I don't think (???) it'll be another repeat performance.
    If the real Schroeder and the real Elway show up, it should be the
    Raiders game easily :-)
    
    Carlos

      How come it took you soooooo long to say anything about LAST weeks
    game Carlos?
    
      I will be here Monday regarless of the outcome.  It won't take me 5
    days to say something.
    
      I think it will be the typical donk faider game.
    
      Weakness'   
    
    		  Faiders = QB  & LB's
                  Broncos = Left side OL and Wymon Henderson and maybe
    		  Treadwell.  He slumped last year,  last week wasn't
    		  immpressive.
    
    
       Tim

    >I think it will be the typical donk faider game.
    
    It was. As per usual, a field goal was the difference although I
    think the game was not as close as the score indicates. The Raiders
    offense didn't show up in the first half, good thing the defense
    did, they held the Donks to 6 points. The second half was all Raiders,
    just like old times huh Tim.
    
    Carlos

      Yes Carlos,  and as I said in the donk file,  nov.10th won't be any
    different....I like these kind of games, with the exception of who won
    this one.....
    
    	Tj

The Raiders are not supporting Jay Schroeder at all. Art Shell is playing 
protective father and praying that he doesn't blow it. The team is full of guys 
that can run fly patterns. They need Mike Dial back, it was very evident that 
the Raiders do not have a receiver willing to catch a Schroeder thrown football 
over the middle. 

It's much too early to start screaming for Marinovich he hasn't taken the 
pacifier out of his mouth yet. 

Jeff

    The Faids got luckey and beat Donks by 3 $%^%^&^&*) points.  
    I got $$$$ that say the donks finish with a better overall 
    record than the happless Faiders unless the bench wrong way
    Jay. Good game Faids see ya in Nov.

    The Raiders face the AFC's #1 defense (so far) this weekend when
    they play the Colts. The Colts offense hasn't been doing too much
    yet, but with a QB like George and an RB like Dickerson they can't
    be taken to litely. I expect another close one this weekend with
    the Raiders winning by a TD or so.  
    
    Bo Jackson said that if his doctors clear him to play football,
    he'll be getting his guts knocked out or knocking somebody else's
    guts out after baseball season. After seeing him run 'though, I
    don't think it's a good idea just yet, I think he should wait until
    next season at least....
    
    
    Carlos
    

    The Raiders play the Atlanta (wanna-be-raider) Falcons this weekend,
    should be interesting to see what kind of tricks old Glanville (sp?)
    has up his sleeve. The Donks are keeping pace with the Raiders so
    far, but I think the Chargers will win there first game in an upset
    in Denver (probably more wishfull thinking than anything, but it
    could happen). Looks like the Raiders are returning to last years
    form, especially on defense, now if we could just get a few more
    TD's from Schroeder and co.
    
    Carlos
    

      Atlanta has a fairly good defense.  I watched them play KC in game 1, 
    and they were pressuring the QB every play.  Atlanta seems to be close
    in every game, no matter who they are playing.  I don't think this will
    be any different.
    
      Who ever wins the war in the trenches will win this game. 
    Unfortunately I think the faids will win,  but you never know......
    
    	Tim

    
     HA !!!  I love it....  The "Wanna-Be-Raiders" looked more like the
    Raiders than the Raiders Did.....  I'm telling you, and you can quote
    me on this....  The Raiders will go no where until they dump Wrong Way
    Jay and get themselves a REAL QB......  I think I saw an article in 
    S.I. that said Plunket want's to come out of retirement and Play for
    the Raiders....  If I were Uncle Al Davis I'd seriously consider giving
    him a try out, He's got to be better the Wrong Way Jay.  Hell, I'm 
    better than Wrong Way Jay, Ain't that right COMET::JACKSONTA

      Better than Jay, Jack?  I don't know,  you can throw thee short ones, 
    but he can throw the long ones.
    
      From what I heard, Jay threw an int at the end of the game on
    Atlanta's 20.  Any conformation?
    
    Tim

      Where is Carlos?   Every time the Faids lose,  he disappers,  kinda
    like Hal;^
    	Tim

    
    Tim,
    
    	I've noticed a trend in your notes that is probably of concern
    	to all ::SPORTS noters........... you haven't mastered the
    	smiley face thang!  You either tack on two noses or leave the
    	mouth totally off.  Cut down on the SportsShrooms(tm) OK?
    
    Claybroon 8*)

    
    
     Clay Wad.....  You're a Bone Haid....
    
    	Big Game

    The Raiders got smoked by the wanna-be's, ....but their still only
    a game behind the Donks. They play the Montana-less 49'ers this
    weekend, should be a good game to watch. I think the Raiders will
    take it (no bias here), they always seem to play tough against the
    good teams and choke against the one's the should smoke.
    
    Carlos

>       <<< Note 40.247 by ELMAGO::CGRIEGO "Even so, come, Lord Jesus." >>>
>
>    I think the Raiders will
>    take it (no bias here), they always seem to play tough against the
>    good teams and choke against the one's the should smoke.
    
    The 49ers and Falcons are currently tied.  So who's the good team and
    who's the one they should smoke? 
    
-Andy

    This Game will come down to Luck, the team that makes (recovers) the
    turnover early in the 4rth qtr will score and hold and win the game.
    
    Hope its the Raiders but the 49ers wont slip back under .500
    
    		49ers 24	Raiders 16
    								Mike

      Gee thanks Clay......8**********   I never knew what these stupid
    signs meant,  so I kinda wanged it;^?
    
    	T

    Raiders beat the 49'ers this weekend 12-6, it was kind of a boring
    game to watch tho' with a grand total of six field goals accounting
    for all the scoring. The Raiders 'D' is playing good, but the offense
    still ain't got much of a clue. One of the bright spots on offense
    was Nick Bell returning from a knee injury, he can run and catch
    very well and he's only gonna get better as the season goes on.
    Now if they could only get their rookie QB going.....
    
    
    Carlos

      Sure is quiet in here anymore.

    >               -< Thanks for choking Schroeder & co. >-
    
    I think you should omit Schroeder from this statement, the S.D.
    loss was not Schroeder's fault. He actually looked pretty sharp
    this weekend (although I only saw the last half of the game).
    I think Roger (cough it up) Craig, and Willy (all thumbs) Gault
    are more to Blam (tm) than anybody. Schroeder hasn't been playing
    up to last years par though,........but there's still alot more
    games coming up for him (and the rest of the team) to get it together.
    They could sure use a wake up call right about now, especially with
    Seattle coming up......the only way they'll win the division again
    is by beating other division rivals and right now they are 1-1 in
    that department. Oh well, at least they'll win one more with their
    annual sweep of the donks.....:-)
    
    Carlos

      I didn't see much of that game either,  but I remember watching a
    highlite on ESPN? and they showed Fernandez? wide open for the bomb, 
    and Jay overthrew him by 5+ yards. Normally the QB gets most of the
    blame when "not enough" points are scored.  Didn't Jay have 1-2 int's?
    
      WE will see about the sweep buzzzzz.  Barring injuries,  I think the
    Broncos will have a good season with winning all the home games;^^
    
      
    
        Tim

      Mike Wise DL was dumped by Faiders yesterday.

    Well, Seattle should no longer be the Seachickens -  they should be
    the SeaChokes!  Here's a team with quite possibly the best home-field
    advantage in the NFL and they not only make a close game out of a 17-0
    lead but lose the game!  Damm idiots!!  No wonder I hate 'em.  
    
    It would've been much worse at halftime but I see now how terrible of a
    QB Kemp is.  He makes Pat Ryan look like Joe Montana.  His int. right 
    before half really hurt Seattle.  This was a big win for the Faids
    though like they said after the game.  And when the f%#&ing hell are
    teams gonna learn to just blitz the hell out of Schroeder?!?  Put alot
    of heat on him, make him hurry his throws, hit him a few times and get
    him rattled!  At least Roger "I fumble" Craig is in midseason form. 
    
    What's the deal with the people of Seattle?  I thought this was Seahawk
    country all the way, some of the best fans in the NFL, and every time
    they scan the crowd I see a bunch of "I (think) I'm cool because I wear 
    black" Faider fans.  Come on Seattle, show some pride for your beloved
    team and not the damm enemy!!!!!  And keep those Faider fans out of your 
    Kingdome!
    
    
    Joe
    

Joe,

When I saw Kemp drop back on that last pass in OT, I picked up the
phone and made airline reservations.  If I on the East Coast knew who
he was throwing too, I'm sure every DB anywhere west of the Mississippi
did too.  If he'd have taken just a little longer to release the ball,
I might have made the inty and not Lott 8^)

(If he'd have waited to release a second more, Lott might have scored a TD...)

Boy, does he suck as a QB.


'Saw

    I don't get a chance to watch many Seahawks games, but what I have
    seen, they are everything I dislike about conservative coaching. 
    
    Everytime the Seahawks get a lead, the coaching staff sits on the ball. 
    Get real, this is the NFL where the offenses can score points.  Throw
    the ball (at least occationally, when the running game isn't working),
    or you deserve to lose.  The offensive play calling lost this game.
    
    Commander Scott

I was at the game last night and it was typical chuck knox and Jeff Kemp. He is 
one bad QB...Even roborookie McGwire would be better than Kemp. Every time he 
went back to pass in a critical situation you knew he was gong to throw an Int.

The game was bad for a few reasons. First the Chicken Hawks lost, second, there
was a ton of obnoxious Raider fans at the game (It seemed like every two bit
punk looking kid there was a raider fan), and lastly I didn't have any binoculars
to watch the SeaGals with (but I managed to borrow a pair for their end zone
dance :-)

Massively conservative play calling killed the Hawks. On the defensive side the
lack of any sort of a pass rush killed them. The 'hawks need to spend their first
round choice this year on a speed pas rusher.

17-0 (it should have been 24-0) at the half and 0 offense in the 2nd half. They
had one offensive play in the 2nd half that got them a field goal but that was
it.


I've never seena game with more replay reviews either....it really stretches
that game out with TV timeouts and replays and more timeouts and ugh....


Activate Krieg or play Roborookie....


Metz

      I saw this game,  and the reason Knox is conservative is because his
    QB stinks!  Its hard to want to pass if you know that out of every 10
    pass att that at least 1 of those will be picked.
    
      Give the game ball to Lott.  He made a critical 3rd down stop on
    Williams in the 4th? and then the int in OT.
    
      This was one of the sloppiest games every.  Faids = 5 turnovers in
    1st half,  and 'chickens choke in second.
    
      How many flags were thrown?  30+ is my guess.
    
    	Tim

So Metz....

By my calculations, you guys are done with football for the day at around
8pm.  Last nights game ended at 11pm my time.

What's up after that?  A late dinner in some of the fine eateries near
the kingdome?  Not much area for tailgating there, so I figure you have
to eat out.

Or just heading home....

What does a typical Seattle fan do?


'Saw

    Saw -
    
    A typical Seattle fan climbs into the Winnebago and drives back to
    wherever they came from, saying "Awww shucks, and stuff..."
    
    Other typical Seattle fans go out binging, eh.
    
    JD

Not being typical in any way,shape or form and having most excellent weather (43
consecutive days without precipitation) this "Hawks fan got up early and did a
benefit walk around Green Lake, went out to brunch, hung out around green lake
and read the paper and watched the badaciousness skate,walk,ride by and then
went to the game which started at 4:30 PST.

Watched the game and then headed home because of the long day. Because the 
Kingdome parking situation is absolutely outta control the Mrs. and I didn't
get home 'till 10:00. A quick screening of the previous nights Almost Live
and a part of Saturday Night Live and it's off to bed to rest up for the 
long work week....

Had it been an early game tailgating or dinner out would have been in the
works....

Quite the large contingent of winnebago people that must drive from all over
the state to see the ChickenHawks.....not quite the same crowd as M's games.

I predict Kemp goes on the waiver wire this week after Krieg gets activated.

Metz

    Another great come from behind victory for the Raiders.
    I don't think I've ever seen so many flags thrown in one game, it
    seems like they threw a flag after every single play. The officiating
    for this game really sucked, for example the 'too many men on the
    field' ruling after the Seahawk kickoff that 'Toast' returned for
    a TD after it went into the endzone without a Seahawk player touching
    it or a Raider player signaling for a fair catch. What a rip, or
    how about the Howie fumble recovery.
    
    Carlos
    

You knew that the refs weren't going to allow a td on that play. Even if it 
was a vlid one. They were caught with egg on face syndrome. The local paper 
here even aid that the Raider player warned the officials before the game
that he would try this if the 'Hawks were napping on a punt or kickoff....

Metz

PS - the raider player should have let his teammates know he was going to try
this then they would have stayed off the field. As it was it sort of was the
correct call because both teams had people on the field that weren't part of
the original play.....

    >    -< Why are Bronco fans so concerned about the Raiders? >-
    
    Why ask why? Drink Bud Dry......Seriously tho' If you'd be beat
    up by the same big'ol bully year after year, you'd be concerned
    about his well being too! Ain't that right Tim? Besides the Donks
    know that if they're gonna have any chance of winning the division
    they're gonna need some outside help wif da Raiders. :-)
    
    Carlitos

    Da Raiders are toast.  Whoever wins this week betwixt the Chiefs and
    the Donkeys will win the division.  Raiders will only be able to hope
    for a wild-card, at best.
    
    
    JaKe
    

     The Faiders have a lot of talent and have had for a few years now.
    They have one glaring problem that will keep them from winning like
    they did in the days of old, WRONG WAY JAY !!!  Until they give the 
    bum his walking papers they won't worry the Semi-Happless Donks or
    anyother team in the league.  Theres a saying about old JAY arong the 
    Rockies and is goes like this "As long as Jay's around He'll keep the
    Faiders down".  I gotta say that the trade with the Skins were the gave
    up Lachey (SP?) for Wrong Way Jay was the biggest mistake I've ever
    seen Uncle Al Davis make!  I gotta agree with JaKe.....  Who ever
    wins the game this Sunday wins the division
    
    Big Game 
    
    P.S.  I'm Picking The Cheifs !!

ESPN reported rumors that the Raiders were thinking about benching Jay after his
dismal 1st half. Lucky for him he pulled off the comeback and bought himself a
little more time before Marinovich becomes the QB.

Nick bell loooked good this week. He doesn't look especially fast, no punishing
but he reads his blocks well and finds the hole. He runs pretty straight up
for a big guy. 

Roger Craig is through. He might still step high but he's very slow in getting 
to the hole and extremely easy to knock down. he'll be gone after this year....

When's Marcus coming back ?


Metz

    > When's Marcus coming back?
    
    I think Marcus Allen will be seeing some action this weekend against
    the Rams. Just in time too, the Raiders sure miss him, Nick Bell
    is getting better each week but he can't do it by himself. Wonder
    where Greg Bell's at? Roger Craig isn't all washed up yet just ask
    the Donks, Craig had a good day against them and he's been pretty
    good in other games too except he has a very bad habit of coughing
    the ball up at the worst possible moments and it's been hurting
    the team, he needs to work on hanging on to the ball. The Raiders
    need to start utilizing Craig's receiving skills too, he's one of
    the most dangerous running back receivers coming out of the backfield.
    I expect the Raiders to have a good day against the Rams this weekend.
    
    Raiders by 10 or more!
    
    Carlitos

    In answer to my own question: "Wonder where Greg Bell's at?", I
    did a search on his name and Kenn entered a reply a few weeks ago
    saying that he had been placed on the waived-due to injury list.
    
    I was reading my latest copy of Raider News yesterday and I noticed
    that Marinovich cannot play for the Raiders unless Schroeder, and
    Evans both go down (with injuries), and if this does happen and
    Baby Snake (tm) stinks up the place neither Schroeder or Evans can
    come back into the game. It has something to do with him being the
    46th player on the roster. So I guess this means we probably won't
    be seeing him in action this year, but you can bet he'll be challenging
    the others for the #1 position next year. Go Schroeder!
    
    Carlitos

    Not that I'm really up on this sort of thing, so please excuse my
    ignorance if it's obvious, but... Wasn't Marinovich a first or early 
    round pick? He's been hyped quite a bit, going back to his pushy
    overbearing dad trying to "make" him into the "perfect QB".
    
    Anyway, the idear that he may not see any action this year seems kind
    of strange, unless he's injured. I usually thought that a 1st round
    pick is a guy who can come in and make an immediate impact. The other
    early round picks are guys who can contribute in their first year, but
    may nor start. I realize that they may be bringing him along slowly,
    like Testaverde was, but it seems like he should be getting some time
    in there. Also, didn't they pay him a ton of money? Might as well play
    the guy...
    
    Tom 

    re .273:
    
    > Wasn't Marinovich a first or early round pick?
    
    Marinovich was the Raiders first round pick, 24th overall in the draft.
    
    
    py

    
>    I usually thought that a 1st round
>    pick is a guy who can come in and make an immediate impact. 
 
    Usually not the case with QB's.
    
    
    Joe
    

    	...and certainly not the case with this year's crop.

    I didn't know redshirting existed in the NFL.

  >>Re. .273                  -< Is he injured? >-
    
    Hey Tom, 
    
    It's not that he's physically unable to perform, it's just another
    of those beautiful new rules/regulations things the NFL dreams up 
    when they get bored. I'm not to sure exactly how it works other
    than what I said in .272, but it has something to do with him being
    the 46th player on the roster or something like that. I guess last
    year and before that you could only have 45 players (is this right????)
    and this year teams are allowed 46, with conditions for that player.
                                                                       
    Maybe somebody whose up on the rules could shed some light?
    
    
    Carlitos
     
    

    
     I'm not up on the rules to that depth but I beleive you're right.
    I can only say that the should have Jay hit the pine and play the
    second stringer instead....  Any things got to be better for the
    faiders than wrong way Jay !!
    
    		Big Game

    A few times I can remember thinking the same things about Schroeder
    (e.g. Bench the Bum! and stuff) but he's really not that bad, the
    Raiders have won a lot more than they've lost with Jay at the wheel.
    It might be because of the rest of the team, but many of them were
    around when Marc Wilson was the QB and the Raiders were batting
    .500 or less, Jay's 100% better than Wilson and I'd rather have
    him in there and the Raiders winning (no matter how ugly it looks)
    than take a chance ending up with another Wilson clone.
         

      Jack,  I can't beleive you would want the faiders to bench Schreoder. 
    The division will be locked up by Denver or KC with Jay playing, I mean
    losing games for LA.
    
      I wouldn't exactly say Jay made a second half come back for LA.  Its
    more like the seachickens couldn't find they're offense if it was in
    front of they're face.   Now that Kemps gone,  the seagulls will
    probably be more competative.
    
    
    	Tim

Jay-bone is only as good as his offensive line. If you give him time to throw 
he does a pretty reasonable job at finding the open receiver.

Under pressure (any sort) is a completely different story


Metz

    
>>(any-QB) is only as good as his offensive line. If you give him time to throw 
>>he does a pretty reasonable job at finding the open receiver.

>>Under pressure (any sort) is a completely different story
    
    Metz, 
    these statements can be said about almost any QB, including Brister!!!
    
    JaKe
    

 I believe the rule states that you can carry 46 players only if the
 46 th player is your 3rd string QB and he can only be used in the game
 if you first 2 Qb's get injuried...

 mike    

re: .1

Now there's another brilliant NFL rule for you!

re: Marinovitch

The other thing to remember about the guy is that he left school early.  This 
season is really the equivilant of his senior (?) year of college.  While I'd
love to see him play and succeed for the reasons we discussed in August, I can
understand him spending this year on the bench.

=Bob=

     Hey Mikey !!!!  The Donks don't S__K near as bad as the Faiders !!
    I'm gonna take $20.00 from HOOT this year on a bet the the Donks 
    finish ahead of the Faiders in the AFC West...... Care to lose some
    of you hard earned money as well???
    
    Big Game

      Mikey shouldn't talk since his squeelers are sipping badly!    Notice
    both the squeelers and faiders are looking for a good QB?  The
    squeelers are actually in worse shape than LA.
    
    	Tim

    
> Jay-bone is only as good as his offensive line. If you give him time to throw 
> he does a pretty reasonable job at finding the open receiver.

> Under pressure (any sort) is a completely different story


    You hit the nail right on the head, Metz.
    
    
    Joe

    Yea Tim,  But not much worse off......  Wrong Way Jay is right up 
    there with the worst of `em.......  Boy he really SIPS.....
    
    Big Game

    What a beautiful backbreaking loss by the Faiders last night, losing
    one they probably should've won. :^) :^)  I couldn't believe KC came out 
    looking so awful, but gotta give the Faids credit for holding off a couple 
    KC comeback attempts until Wrong Way Jay's disastrous interception early 
    in the 4th with LA about to put the game away.  Even if the Faids settle 
    for a FG there they probably win because KC wasn't doing much offensively. 
    That long int return was just the boost the Chiefs needed.  KC
    converted 2 4th downs, one on each TD drive to complete the comeback. 
    A few plays before the winning TD the Chiefs were called for offensive
    interference on an absolutely horrendous call, but at least it didn't
    end up affecting the outcome of the game.
    
    What in the hell is the Faiders' f&*%ing problem?!?  Do the 
    a$#holes think they have to start a damm fight every time poor little 
    Wrong Way Jay gets sacked?  Just play football and quit acting like
    f#%$ing street-fighting idiots.
    
    The Faider d-line is definitely the strength of their team.  They
    didn't give KC much running room and were constantly in DeJerk's face.
    LA also had some good, unexpected calls, which certainly isn't
    uncharacteristic of them.  The TD pass on 3rd and 1 in the 2nd quarter
    was a gem - the receiver was *wide* open.  And the fake punt took what
    wind was left out of KC's sails but Wrong Way managed to choke.  (Heh
    Heh).  I just hope Denver's ready for these type of calls a week from
    Sunday.
    
    
    Joe
    

               Good job Jay Schroeder!!!!!
       The Equalizer comes through again!!! K.C should thank the EQ.
       (Jay) for giving them an early turkey dinner! The Equalizer
       will keep every team in the game,with a chance to win.
       I hope Raiders do something about getting rid of Schroeder!
       

    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!
    
    
     You gotta love it....  The Faids choke,  K.C. has 5 road games and
    the Donks hold 1st place by a Knats A**.....  HAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!
    
     Wrong way proves once again that Uncle Al Davis made the worst mistake
    of his life trading Lachey to the Foreskins for some clown that should
    have stayed in Baseball.  Jay is a bum and I know that Art ain't gonna
    put up with this kinda crap from him much longer.
    
     I couldn't beleive that call of offensive pass int. on the K.C.
    receiver.....  That is until I saw Uncle Al handing the Zebra a
    C-Note ($100.00) on the side line....  He's finally learning from 
    Revees and Bowlen...   ;^)
    
    Big Game
    
    
    P.s.  Donks To Pound Both K.C. And Faiders At Home to Clinch AFC WEST
    	  And Hoot Owes Me $10.00   HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

    Tough loss for the Raiders on MNF, they kicked KC's butt all night
    but ended up walking away the losers. Schroeder's getting most of 
    the blame as usual, but there were two passes to Raider receivers 
    in the endzone that should of been caught but were dropped. Schroeder
    can't get the blame for that, he also wasn't on  the defense when KC 
    did come back and score 2 TD's. He did give them the ball that lead to
    their first TD, and he also gave them the ball when they had a chance 
    to tie it up with a field goal. I don't know what all these Donk
    fans are snivelling about, the Donks are lucky to have come away 
    with a W to last years worst team, and they should have lost it. 
    Not to worry though, we'll see how many show up in here after the 
    Raiders put the hurt on the Donks AGAIN! :-)
    
    
    Carlos

    HAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!  I got ticket to the game against the Faids...
    I haven't been to a Donks game yet where they've lost......
    The Big Game KOD is on the Faids !!!
    
    

                Schroeder the Equalizer must go!!!!!!!
       Sorry, guys but the E.Q. sucks! I understand there were some drop
       passes,but that is common in all games. Every time the EQ gets 
       pressure,he always seems to find the oppossing team's hands!!!
       He makes quite a few bad passes,descions and keeps every team
       in the game. I've yet to see the Raiders put away a team, all
       the teams that have losing records still have a chance to
       upset the Raiders! The EQ said on ESPN that he shouldn't have
       thrown those passes,but should have made better descions or
       even kick some field goals! Toooooo late now!!!!!!!!!!!!!
       I don't know about you guys, but haven't you guys suffered 
       enough with the Marc Wilson era??? Maybe they have to also
       change up their offensive scheme! Commentators are saying
       that the Raiders are asking to much of Schroeder,well maybe
       they should draw plays were Jay drops back less yards and
       get rid of the ball much quicker or dump off passes to the
       backs!!! (ex. like the 49ers). I think then they will see 
       that the EQ has no touch ! so then what next?? The Raiders
       have had a pretty good team over the past years, but no QB
       to lead them since Plunkett left! 
    

    To some extent, the QB problems may be a result of the Raiders'
    insistance on the "vertical passing game" i.e. Al Davis.
    
    Consistently depending on the long pass requires a great QB, speed WR
    (got them), and a very good O-line.  A mearly good QB would look a lot
    worse than he than in some other scheme.
    
    Don't get me wrong, other passing scheme require skilled QB, but it
    would be difficult to excell in the Raiders' scheme.
    
    Commander Scott

      re-Carlos,  Put another hurt on the donks?   The Faids didn't put a
    hurt on them the 1st game.  yes they won,  but a 3-4 point win (can't
    remember the score) doesn't imply a hurt.  Now a 40-6 score would is
    different,  and we know that won't happen between these 2 teams no
    matter where they play.
    
      Lets not talk to much luck for Denver until you look at how the Faids
    got their last 2 wins, ie seattle and rams.....
    
      IMO, If the uncle wouldn't of picked up Lott, who was the guy who
    basically won those 2 games,  then the faids would be 3-6 instead of
    5-4.
    
      I believe the series will split this year.   Both Denvers and LAs
    offenses are lackin right now (not alot of points).  The second game
    advantage belongs to Denver 'cause of homefield and better QB.
    
    	Tim

     Tim,  I think your analysis is pretty much right on.  You know,
    The one thing I can't beleive is that Uncle Al has put up with
    Wrong Way Jay this long... Al is one of the better owners ans usually
    dosen't keep poor performers around very long (ie: Sammy Seal) I'll
    bet Jay is riding the pine nexted(tm) year if the Unk has anything
    to say about it !!!   BTW Schell is a good coach !
    
    Big Game

    >The second game advantage belongs to Denver 'cause of home field
    >advantage and a better QB.
    
    Yeah but you forget that Art Shell owns your QB, and your team, 
    homefield or no homefield Shell is 5-0 against the Donks! Besides
    Marcus is back in Town. Raiders by 7.
    
    Carlos

      faids by 7,   Carlos, even you know that theese games are usually
    decided by 1-4 points.
    
      A snow storm is coming sunday (supposedly) so I wonder how good the
    faids will play in that.   Denver rarely looses in snow games.
    
      I'm wondering how much playing time Marcus will get?  I would think
    Shell would "slowly" ween him back into the game, so maybe 10 carries
    max.....
    
    	Tim

    Hey Tim, I know it's late but you were right about Shell weening
    Marcus back in, he did'nt do too much against the Donks rushing wise, 
    although he did manage to throw a beautiful TD pass. Against the
    Seahawks this weekend he only rushed for 54 yds, but that was more
    yardage than any of the other Raider backs. Schroeder tore it up
    yesterday, didn't get to see the game but I saw some highlights and I
    wished I coulda seen the game. With this season's sweep of the Seahawks
    the Raiders tied up the series between them at 14-14, it seems that as
    long as I've followed the Raiders they've always had a tough time with
    the Seahawks so I'm glad to see things turning around. The Donks are in
    sole possession of first now, after sweeping the Chiefs (Reeves owns
    Shotenheimer (sp?) the way Shell owns Reeves), and they've got the
    easiest schedule of the three (Raiders, Donks, Chiefs), but I think the
    Donks gottza be a little nervous about the Raiders, especially after
    the way they played against the Seahawks yesterday plus the fact that
    the Seahawks are gonna blow the Donks away this weekend! :-)
    
    
    	Carlos

    
     Faiders are looking like they might make a race out of it !!  The
    Donks will be hurting if they let them tie it up and are in a must win
    position...  On the other hand...  The Faids have a pretty tough road
    to hoe till the end of December
    
    My moneys on the Donks,
    
    Big Game

>    I think the
>    Donks gottza be a little nervous about the Raiders, 
    
    I'm sure Denver's real nervous.....
    
    
    
       .......NOT!!!!!!!
    
    
    I would bet right now that the Faids will lose at least 2 more, and I
    don't think Denver will lose more than 2 the rest of the way. 
    Therefore ---------> Divison title to Denver.
    
    Thank you and good night.
    
    
    Joe

       Yeh,  I saw Jays stats,  and (I'm forcing this out) was impressed
    with it.  Mind you that Seattle doesn't have a great defense,  but only
    missing completions and no Int's is great,  for Jay anyway.  I'm not
    worried, 'cause like BG said,  the faids have a tougher schedule,  so
    chances are they will be more likely to lose.
    
      Should be good,  and I would love to see another donk/faid game come
    playoffs.  Denver has been a kick away from winning,  and they are do
    for a W against Shell.
    
    	Tim

    God! I hate that "Not!!" stuff, oh it was cute the first couple of
    times I heard it, but now that everybody (even Joe) is saying it, it
    kinda grates on my nerves.
    
    I agree that the Donks have an easier road ahead, (it's bad enough that
    they got the refs paid off, but now they've got the schedule makers on
    the payroll too?) but that's ok, cause the Raiders have been firing on
    all eight cylinders since the Monday night Chiefs game that they let
    slip away. And they're only gonna get better. They'll have some tough
    tests though, against the Saints, the Bills, and the Chiefs. Another
    rematch in Denver is a very likely possibility, but better there than
    KC.
    
    Carlos

    
     Correct,  The Faids have been playing well since the debachle in KC.
    I think it's really anyones title at this time (K.C.,  L.A.,  Donks)
    With one more win in the Division for the Donks (This Sunday) it will
    be all but through though.  LA has some real tough road games and
    still has to count on Wrong Way to keep them and not the other team in
    it.  Jay had a good game but we all know he's due to blow-up soon.
    as the presure mounts look for good 'ole Jay to fold.  The faids
    are sure to pull out a WC which could lend it self to a rematch in the
    `offs of these two teams (Donks/Faiders).  It surely will be a great
    one if it happens and it will be in Denver you can bet on that.
    
    Big Game
    
    P.s.  The Faids are my second most loved team......     NOT!!!!!!
    
    		;^)

    Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't unlikely that the Raiders and
    Broncos will meet in the playoffs?
    
    Given that KC is unlikely to win the division and neither LA or Denver
    will fall to the #3 wildcard spot - won't the two teams be in seperate
    *wildcard* games?  I thought that the #3 division winner plays the #3
    wildcard or the non-division wildcard. (Or something like that) 
    
    The odds on the Raiders and Bronos both winning their wildcard AND
    beating Buffalo/Houston to meet in the AFC championship game are a bit
    long.
    
    Scott
    

    
     You know,  I was thinking the same thing after my note.  I beleive
    you're correct, it is a long shot but a possibility....  Whats the 
    scoop Ninj??
    
    Big Game

    For Denver and the Faids could meet in the playoffs under 2 scenarios:
    
    1. Denver or LA wins the division and the other ends up with the 3rd
    wild-card slot.
    
    2. KC wins the division and Denver and LA get the 1st and 2nd wil-card
    slots.  This one's pretty unlikely considering KC's a game out now and
    they play 4 of their last 5 on the road.
    
    
    I've always disliked Luckalo, but I'm *really* starting to hate them
    now.  I don't know what the hell Thurman Thomas was trying to prove by
    winging the ball at the wall after he scored a TD late in the 2nd half. 
    I might even pull for the Faiders against Luckalo when they play in a
    few weeks.
    
    
    Joe

    Joe is right about the playoff scenarios.  After all, Washington and
    Philadelphia did both make the playoffs as wild-cards last year and
    played each other.  Patriots and Jets did so in 1985, too.
    
    Maybe I'm missing something (and probably am) but where does all this
    contradicting one's statement with NOT come from?  It's annoying to say
    the least.
    
    John

    John, I'm pretty sure the "not" thing was started in Wayne's World on
    SNL.  It has caught on with alot of people and Bud is even using it on
    one of their commercials.  It will probably wear itself out shortly,
    but in the meantime I kind of like it....
    
    
    
              
    HA! Bet you guys thought I was gonna throw a NOT in here.  :^)
    
    
    Joe 

    >> I don't know what Thurman Thomas was trying to prove by winging
    >> the ball at the wall after he scored....
    
    I know what you mean Joe, that was without class. Of course if it
    woulda been a Raider that did that, there would've been a million
    yellow flags flying. I think Thomas should've gotten a flag for
    unsportsman like conduct, or taunting, or something.....oh well!
    
    Carlos
    

    Looking through yesterdays USA Today I seen that the Raiders have
    been slowly moving up in the rankings on defense, they are presently 
    the #2 defensive team in the AFC, offense is another story though,
    they're only three or four away from dead last in the AFC, the lack of
    a running attack is a major contributor to this 'though. Another
    interesting thing I noted in Gordon Forbes' commentary about the Bills
    was that he was forcasting what he termed "a very likely AFC
    Championship game" between either the Bills/Oilers or the
    Bills/Raiders. Of course it's way to early to tell, but I hope he's
    right about another Bills/Raiders match up in the post season
    championship.
    
    
    	Carlos

    Why ???   So the Faids can get slapped again.... Luckaolo will
    kill them.
    
    
    Big Game

    
    	Bo is now a 1 sport (baseball) athlete on the advice of
    	his doctors.
    
    	Claybone

       I think he made the right decision.  Though he was a faider,  I would
    have hated to see him get hurt again, and end up paying the "penalty" for
    risking his bod.
    
    	Tim

The Raiders will be lucky to win 2 more games this season.


@Cincinnatti  W
@San Diego    W
Buffalo       L
@New Orleans  L
Kansas City   L

Just lucky they don't play the Bronco's...

    
    >> Just lucky they don't play the Broncos!
    
    Hey Mods, shouldn't this be moved to the jokes topic?
    
    As far as them being lucky to win two more, don't bet on it, I think 
    they'll lose two more, to , to the Chargers (Maybe???) and to the
    Chiefs. They've got revenge on their minds for Buffalo, Cinci is weak, 
    and the Saints game is on Monday night and everybody knows that the 
    Raiders are just about an automatic win in that category.

>    and the Saints game is on Monday night and everybody knows that the 
>    Raiders are just about an automatic win in that category.
    
    The Faiders' Monday night record is an overused and overrated stat!
    Besides, the game is in New Orleans and those fans will be rockin' and
    rollin'.
    
    
    Joe

    >The Faiders' Monday night record is an overused and overrated stat!
    
    Sure....if the Donks owned it, we'd never hear the end!
    

    The last time I saw the Raiders on monday night they lost.   
    It was wonderfull.
    
    BoB

    Speaking of wonderful, the Raiders are right back on top, where they
    belong, isn't that just wunderful? :-)   
    
    Carlos

       I don't know about wonderful,  but it wasn't totally unexpected
    considering who they played, the worst team in the NFL.
    
    	Tj

    Well when you consider that the Raiders only had 19 yards passing, then 
    you know what I mean when I say wonderful. It was a wonder that they
    even won much less blowing them out. Incidentally, the Bengals
    shouldn't have even had 14 pts., one of the Denver refs gave the
    Bengals a mercy TD at the end of the first half.  Speaking of Denver,
    how about them Seahawks Tim. :-)
    
    Carlos

    
     Well,
      Looks like this season is shaping up to be another battle for the
    title in the West.  Denver just couldn't get it going in Seattle
    yesterday.  If they don't turn it around the Faiders will be Champs
    this year.  Jackson shoulda cought the pas for the winning score...
    Not like him to drop one like that.  Oh well,  the Donks play well
    ubder pressure....  Congrats to the Faids for hanging in.
    
    Big Game

      what about the seagulls?   Both teams looked like #$%&!!   Denver
    went in dazed and left dazed.  Watch Seattle crawl back into the
    playoff hunt.  If KC isnt careful,  they could choke right out of the
    playoffs....
    
    	Tj

    Yesterdays win over the Chargers wasn't a pretty one, but it sure did
    mean alot. The Raiders are still on top in the west, plus it's another
    win within the division which could end up being the deciding factor
    especially if it comes down to the Raiders and Chiefs. The Donks and
    Chiefs both kept pace yesterday, and you know it's gonna go down to the
    wire, any one of these three could end up the division champs. 
    
    Carlos

    
     What a Joke....  The Faiders will be thrashed by the Bills nexted(tm)
    week.  Jay and the rest of the Faider offense showed their true colors
    yesterday.  What a sorry excuess for a footbal team.  Look for the
    Donks to go  3-0 and the Faiders to go 1-3 to close the season.  The
    donks all but have this years AFC west Title wrapped up.  After the
    Soilers have their clocks cleaned by the Eagles tonight the Donks will
    also be on their way to a possible homefield advantage in Mile High.
    You Gotta love it !!  Faider fans...  Enjoy being on top while you
    can cause you're not gonna be ther come the end of the season.
    
    Big Game

    >>What a sorry excuess for a football team.
    
    Yeah...but...this sorry excuse of a football team has swept your
    awesome Donks the last 2 years, and have won the last 5 times they've
    played, and they lead the series something like 46-19. Not to mention
    being the AFC West defending Champs (while the Donks were dead last).
    Of course I could probably go on to say that they are the winningest
    team in all sports, and that they have won the third most SuperBowls
    ever, and, and....well it just goes on and on! Not too bad for a sorry
    excuse, of course they're no Broncos, but they'll do.
    
    Carlos

    
    
    
        The Raiders defense is all cranked up.  I was hoping for
    a shut out.  Wrong Way Jay had a tough 1st half.  Scott Davis
    came threw again this season with another blocked Field goal.
    Ronnie Lott picked off the hail Mary pass at the end.  
    
    Buffalo
    at New Orleans
    Kansas City
    
    those are the teams left.  9-4 are the Raiders
    
    Mike

>    Of course I could probably go on to say that they are the winningest
>    team in all sports, and that they have won the third most SuperBowls
>    ever, and, and....well it just goes on and on! 
 
    Carlos, you should quit living in the past and worry about this season
    and the upcoming game against the Bills.  You're starting to sound like
    a Notre Dame fan.  
    
    
    Joe

    
    Raiders to finish 9-7, take it to the bank..   
    
    /Jeff

    Silver and Black Roooullle !!!!!!!

    Someday Joe C., dat comment will come back ta haunt ya.
    Premature burial is what yer givin us.
    
    Go Raiders 
    
    MikeL
    

    re: 332
    
     More like Hoot...  
    
      Carlos,
    
     10-6 will be the Faiders ending record...  While the Donks finish
    12-4.  The past is the past and know one can change it.  You Faider
    fans are all the same.  You live there...  In the days when you had
    a real team and a real QB and a real city to play in.  Bellie up to
    the bar and get ready for another season finished as second flute to
    the awsome Donks.  
    
    Big Game
    
    
     P.s.  The Sweep won't mean a thing when the Donks take the title !!
    
    
    
    

    I wouldn't mind if Denver finished 1st .... as long as they don't
    finish second.  The second place team hosts the Patriots in 1992 (since
    it's highly unlikely the Colts can catch us, we'll almost certainly
    finish 4th) and I'll be happy to see us go anywhere - except Denver.
    
    John

    
     I don't know what it is but the Pats seem to have a very tough time
    of it at Mile High.  The Clowns are close behind and surely surpass
    the Pats in the magnatude of games lost in Mile High.
    
    Big Game

    I, for one, hope the Donks get to the Super Bowl.  You see, I'm a Bears
    Fan...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    Chip,
    Does that mean yer goin to root fer the Skins?
    
    MikeL
    

    Da_Bearz
    
    Actually, if my Bears ain't there, and the Pat ain't there, and the
    Browns ain't there, I'm a Buffalo fan.
    
    I was pulling for the saints but their offesive mind set makes me sick.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
     What !!   A Bears fan talking about the lack of another teams 
    offense ???  Will wonders never stop....  
    
    Big Game

    Lack of ability and lack of cajones are two different thing Big_Dame...
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

     The bears have lost 2 straight...  Sound like a lack of both to me !!
    
    ;^)
    
    Big Game

      Wow,  this is the most action that this note has seen since
    pre-season.   The faids did get lucky against SD,  and Jay was trying
    to give the game away.  SD would have won if it weren't for that VERY
    weak holding call on the TD pass in the 4th.
    
      If Jay choked like this against SD,  imagine what he will do with
    d bills.   The bills have Bruce Smith back,  which means better pass
    rush.
    
      I don't know if the bills will stomp the faids,  but they should win
    as long as Kelly doesn't throw 4 ints again.
    
    	Tim
    
      

    Easy there, Big_Dame.  The Bears have lost the last two of the total
    4 loses this season.  But I caint claim they've played without cajones
    this year, I Cain say that about da_Aints.  dumb_a losses to be sure,
    but I didn't see 'em Ban_Rollon_over.
    
    Mora played for OT against the FalseCrums when he could have tried an
    inch of *real* offense.  What did Morona do?  Dived in the middle 
    three time and Punted.  Lost the toss for OT and lost the game.
    
    Reminded me of some-thing Raymond Berry/Barry would have done.
    
    Morona is scareded shiftless with the loss of Q.B. Heb_Serbert.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

     Agreed on the `Aints thing.....  Da Bears have played tough but 
    still don't strike me as a powerhouse offense !!
    
    Big Game

    Big_G,
    
    I think we're in violent agreement.  Da_Bearz haven't shown much
    Potential on the score board lately.
    
    Need Muster, Anderson, Bortz, and Thorton healthy before it happens...
    
    Now back to the Faiders, which is another tale of woeful offense...
    
    ;-)
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
     Agreed...  Speaking of the Faiders...  I bet Uncle Al, Uncle Hootsie
    and the Parrot all shudder every time the see Beruline (sp?) backing-
    up Troy at Dallas.....  He's twice the QB Jay could ever dream of 
    being.  What happened there anyhow...  Carlos,  You know why the Faids
    traded such a talent when they had to know they had a no-talent in 
    Wrong Way Jay?
    
    Big Game

       Cain someone 'splain to me why EL-Lay is favored over the Bills this
    week? Am I missing something here? Did Thomas and Kelly git in a car
    wreck? Did the Buff. Defense join the French Foreign Legion?
                                    Denny

    
     You've got to be kidding....  The Faiders are favored of the Luckaolo?
    It's time to take out a secong mortage and bet it all on the Bills...
    The Faids don't stand a chance in this game.  I Hope ;^)
    
    Big Game

    	You guys crack me up, you don't really expect a repeat of last
    years championship blow out do you? That was a fluke, the Raiders just
    had a terrible day, and Buffalo did everything right. A better
    indicator of how close this game will be is the first game that they
    played last year at Buffalo, where the Bills won it 38-24. Although the
    Bills won this one, they were dominated throughout most of the game by
    the Raiders, until early in the 4th quarter when the Bills exploded
    with 21 (?) unanswered points in a span of about 2 minutes (I think).
    Don't expect this to happen in L.A., especially after the blowout.
    You can bet the Raiders will be psyhced, and ready to play! (Even
    Schroeder).
    
    	About Beuerlein, the reason the Raiders got rid of him is none
    other than Uncle Al. He held out last year for more money, and this
    didn't sit to well with Mr. Davis, so he traded him to Dallas for a 4th
    round pick next year. I think they coulda done better than a 4th, but I
    don't think he was by any stretch, a major loss. He always put up good
    stats for himself, except one, the W's and L's stat. This plus the fact
    that they've got the rookie Robo-QB on the bench made him expendable.
    Bottom line, the Raiders win with Schroeder, even if it doesn't always
    look so pretty, so the loss of Beuerlein is no biggy!
    
    Raiders over Bills by +7 in the Revenge Bowl! 
    
    Carlos
    

     No Way the Faids even cover the spread in this one.  The bills are
    on a role and will do all they can to stop the Faids from having their
    revenge.
    
     I really think the the trade to dallas was a mistake.  The faids could
    use the young talent at QB...  
    
    Big Game
    

       I agree Carlos, the game might be a lot closer. But to make the
    Raiders favorites just doesn't make ANY sense to me.
                                                Denny

    re:  Beuerlein
    
    In a way it's amusing.  Al Davis cultivates a rebel image for the team,
    but gets annoyed  when one of his players gets rebelious.
    
    Scott

    
     Theres nothing left to take away from Al.  He's a has been !! 
    
    :^)
    
     I too was surprised when Al let Beuerlein go....  He seemed to
    fit all the Faider cut outs...  Interesting,  I think maybe it
    goes alittle deeper than the $$$.  Maybe he and Art didn't click ?
    
    Big Game

    Al needs to cut some EGO, his Beuerloins move was the worsted.

       Can you say choke?   There,  I thought you could!
    
    
    
    
    
       As usual in faider losses,  Jay throws the game.   Heck,  if it
    weren't for the choke kicker of luckalo,  this game would not have gone
    into OT.
    
    
    
      Boy did Shell pull a Reeves or what?  Only 4 passes in the 2nd half. 
    It seemed to work for the 3rd QTR, but with the bills,  you just can't
    sit on a lead.  Yeh the faids have a good defense,  but obviously Kelly
    and co can score so fast.
    
      The Bill tight end across the middle was never stopped,  and I think
    that hurt the faids.  It was only 5-8 yards a pop,  but it worked!!
    
       Thanks for the lead in the AFC west Jay!!
    
    	Tim

    
     HHHHHAAAAAAAAAA!!!  I love it !!  Jay proves his worth to all of
    Donk Land once again.  This guy is a Bum and I can't beleive Uncle
    Al is still putting up with it.  Look for the Coke Head Todd
    Marinovich (SP?) to be running this team Nexted(tm) year.  The
    Faiders defense totaly dominated the Bills (The Faids Will be
    tough in the playoffs if Jay can keep it together) until the
    4th quarter when they were on the field all the time because the
    offense went into a coma.  There is no question that the Faiders
    should have won this game...  Jay gave it away just like I knew he
    would.  The Bill's aren't that good.  Kelly has the winning edge
    just like Elway.  If it wasn't for him the game would have never went 
    as far as it did.  The guy can have a horrible day and then come back
    in the final moments to pull it out.  Elway, Marino and Kelly are the
    best in the business today and the sad thing is no one is coming out
    that looks even close to their talent !!  The donks own 1st place
    now,  don't expect them to let it go !!!
    
    Big Game

    I'm certainly no advocate of Schroeder, but those 2 interceptions
    really weren't bad passes by WWJ.  On the one at the end of
    regulation, he was hit as he threw the ball, and on the one in OT he
    just overthrew on a bomb and Kelso made a great diving catch.
    
    I was hoping the Luckalo DB would return that int. for a TD at the end
    of regulation so Norwood wouldn't have to kick.  I think that 5 yard
    procedure penalty made the difference on the kick missing to the right.
    
    If the Faiders don't win the division, their last game against KC will
    probably be for the first wild-card spot and who gets to play at home
    the first weekend.  The Faids might not even get a home game in the
    playoffs!!!!   HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! 
    
    
    Joe

    This game was almost like the Monday night game against the Chiefs.
    It was all Raiders until the end. For the first time I am starting to
    agree with you Shroeder haters, although the offensive game plan for
    the second half was also very much to blame, I don't know what Robiskie
    was thinking, you can't take the pressure off the Bills and hope to
    skate the second half to victory. Marcus got hurt, that really sucks!
    I think (and hope) you're right about Marinovich next year Big Game.
    Schroeder's gotta go! Also I gotta disagree about that Elway, Marino,
    and Kelly parallel, two out of three ain't bad though.  Replace Elway
    with Montana and your back in bidniz.
    
    Carlos

      Montana would never last with the questionable pass blocking line
    that Denver has.  Actually that line is what makes 1/2 of Elways
    mistakes, IMO.
    
      Carlos,  even if Todd plays next year,  it will take him 1-3 years
    just to get a winning hand, IMO.
    
      Marcus gets hurt on a kick return...What was Shell doing when he let
    him go in.  Marcus has proven time & time again that he is the faids
    best back.  Why risk his health?  Nick Bell is starting to show.  Good
    power back replacement for Bo.
    
    
      Speaking of Bo,  there was this sign on Monarch pass (here in
    Colorado) for the ski area that said "Bo don't know snow".  I chuckled
    on that one!
    
    	Tim

    
     Carlos,
    
     The Faiders would love to have Elway on their team.  With their "o" 
    line and the flock of receivers they have he would be un-stoppable in
    LA.  Seriously,  If you look at Johns winning percentage you'ld have 
    to boot Marino or Kelly first.  Elway is becomming better and better,
    he is one of the best and everyone but you and the Clown's fans will
    admit it.
    
     I really beleive that Todd will be the Faiders QB nexted(tm) year.
    Tim's point is valid...  It will take him time to become an experienced
    QB and a consistent winner but anything is better than Jay.  I really
    wish the Faids would hold on to him forever...  With Jay at the Helm
    the need not fear the Faids.
    
     Tim,  Look for the Saints to Slam Dunk the Faiders nexted(tm) week.
    The have lost 4 in a row and are in danger of missing the playoffs.
    if they beat the Faiders like I predict the Faids will be out of the
    race for the AFC west and very possiblely out of the playoffs all
    together.
    
     Big Game

    
    
    
       Go with the Raiders Monday Night.  The Real Man in Black will show 
    up.  Raiders have already clinched a play off spot already.  I was
    disappointed Sunday, just like the K.C. game.  The Raiders had the
    lead, but couldn't hold on.  Howie will be back in a few more weeks
    also.
    
    
    Mike

      Raiders clinch a playoff spot already?   Only if they win at least 1
    and the jets, chiefs or fins choke big time.  It could be different if
    LA loses their last 2 and the others do better.  I'm not sure of tie
    breakers yet.
    
      'Aints might just win this weekend.  They have good pass rushing LBs, 
    and we all know that means Jay will throw INTs!!  Plus N'orleans is due
    a win.  The only thing the faids have going into this game is its a
    Monday nighter.
    
    	Tim

    Faids, KC and Denver all have clinched playoff berths.
    
    
    Joe

    
     Alright,  I'm confused...  Watching football Sunday I was under the
    understanding that the Raiders had yet to clinch even a Wild Card.
    Whats the scoop, Ninj...?
    
    Big Game  (Who would love to see the Faiders out on their ears)

    re Big Game:
    
    I heard the same thing as Joe in .367 (Denver, Raiders, and KC have all
    qualified for the playoffs).  During last night's Dolphins-Bengals
    game, the announcers kept saying that "Miami is in the running for the
    only remaining AFC wild card spot".
    
    
    py

    I know...  I heard the same.  Thats why I'm confused.  Hopefully
    the Ninj can clear this up with one of his well informed and factual
    notes.  The guy has won several bets for me this year by providing
    stats.  I should have profit sharing I guess !!   ;^)
    
    
    Big Game

    Yup.  A Miami win coupled with a Jets loss puts them in.  If they win
    at San Diego on Sunday and if we can beat the Jets, Miami gets the last
    slot.  If both teams win on Sunday, then the winner of the Jets at
    Miami game the last week of the season will get the playoff slot (ditto
    for both teams losing and ditto for a Miami loss and a Jets win this
    weekend).
    
    The only other real battle is sorting out who finishes where in the AFC
    West and who will get home field advantage between Buffalo and Houston.
    
    Team	Overall	Div	Conf	Remaining
    
    Buffalo	12-2	6-1	9-2	at Indy, Detroit
    Houston	10-4	4-1	9-2	at Cleveland, at Giants
    Denver	10-4	4-3	9-4	Phoenix, at San Diego
    Raiders	 9-5	5-2	7-4	at New Orleans, Kansas City
    Kansas City	 9-5	5-2	7-4	at San Francisco, Raiders
    Miami	 8-6	4-3	5-5	at San Diego, Jets
    Jets	 7-7	3-3	5-5	New England, at Miami
    
    In the NFC, more teams are still alive and it's a bit too hard to sort
    out until after the weekend.  The Redskins have not only clinched the
    division but have clinched home field throughout the playoffs.
    
    Washington	13-1	5-1	9-1	Giants, at Philadelphia
    Chicago	10-4	6-1	8-2	Tampa Bay, at San Francisco
    Detroit	10-4	5-2	7-4	at Green Bay, at Buffalo
    Atlanta	 9-5	5-1	7-4	Seattle, at Dallas
    New Orleans	 9-5	4-2	7-4	Raiders, at Phoenix
    Dallas	 9-5	4-3	6-4	at Philadelphia, Atlanta
    Philadelphia 9-5	4-2	5-5	Dallas, Washington
    San Fran	 8-6	3-3	6-5	Kansas City, Chicago
    
    Chicago has the tie-break edge over Detroit, they split head to head. 
    Ditto for Atlanta over New Orleans.  The winner of this weekend's
    Dallas at Philly game is in good shape.
    
    John

    Hey Big Game, don't ya believe me?!?!  :^)  
    
    Just pick up a sports page and it will indicate that those 3 teams have
    all clinched a playoff spot.
    
    
    Joe

     Another good Note from the Ninj...  Thanks Buddy,  I may let you
    in on profit sharing afterall.
    
    Joe,  It's not that I didn't beleive you...  I just have gotten som
    many stories on the situation that I weant to ask the expert.  The
    Ninj always seem to have the right answer.  Sorry if I offended ya !
    Besides,  I never beleive anything printed in the local rag.  Hey !
    did anyone see Ralf Rottens article in Mondays paper.  What a crock
    of $%^&.  He makes the win over the `Spots sound like the second
    comming of Christ for Gawds sake...  
    
    
    Big Game

    Jack, I don't pretend to be an expert.  It was in the local paper today
    and I just paraphrased it.
    
    The secret isn't knowing a lot, the secret is knowing where to look to
    find the answer.
    
    Ninj

    
     What ever...  Nice of you to take time out of your busy day to 
    enlighten the Junk Noters of the file (Noteably Me...)
    
    
    Thanks 
    
    Big Game

    I believe it's kind of an understood not in writing type of thing.
    If your going to be the head coach of the Raiders you have to do
    as Al says. Therin lies what was one of Shanahan's biggest problems
    and what he was subsequently fired over. Shanahan insisted that
    Burlein was his starter. The brilliant Al wanted Jay to start.
    Shanahan and Burlein both go and Jay gets the start. Sometimes
    you get exactly what is deserved. 
    
    Since LA lost to KC once already, this means that the Raiders appear
    to be tied for 2nd but are in fact 3rd in the AFC West. 
    
    BoB   

     True BoB....  And only an elightened Bronco fan such as yourself
    would be able to see through the smoke to the heart of the matter.
    Uncle Al got what he asked for...  I sincerely hope that he is 
    enjoying it thourghly.  
    
     Sure is great to watch one man drag an entire team from first to
    third in one toss of the ball...  Unfortunatly,  Jay will ride
    pine nexted(tm) year.  I for one would love to see Al keep him as
    starter for 5 or 6 more years !!
    
    Big Game

    Well....that was a dreadful sight, the Raiders offense struggled
    miserably (if it was a horse I'd of shot it and put it out of it's
    misery) and the defense didn't do much better. What a time to peak :-)
    Bobby Hebert looked pretty good last night, kinda like a timex, he took
    a lickin and kept on tickin. Congrats to the Donks they clinched the
    division last night. Other than not having a chance to win the
    division, the loss last night was of no terrible consequences to the
    Raiders, they'll still be playing in the first round, and it's up to
    next weeks game to decide if they play at home or away. Schroeder
    looked terrible, Evans looked worse (passing wise), I was hoping to see
    Marinovich get some playing time but it never happened.
    
    Carlos

    How old is Vince Evans?  
    
    Seems like he's been around forever...
    
    
    py

>    How old is Vince Evans?  
>    
>    Seems like he's been around forever...
    
He's third from the left in DaVinci's "The Last Supper"


hth,
'Saw

    Vince was the last Bears QB to start an entire season.  And that was
    a loooong time ago (between Anvil-eni and Jimmy_Mac).
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    He's like 36 or 37. He can still book though, now only if he could pass
    half way decent.....:-(
    
    

    I think, Given the practice time, that Vince could be just what the
    doctor ordered for the Faiders.  Jay certinly can't take them anywhere
    but down the toilet.  He really looked bad.  And, when given the gift
    of the Hebert fumble on the N.O. side of the grid he pulls his patented
    choke and give the balkl directly back to N.O..  Look for K.C. to put
    it to the Faiders two weeks in a row.  With a Houston loss and a Donk
    win nexted(tm) week the donks stand a good shot at another Superbowl.
    Sure would like to see a Washington/Denver rematch.  The Donks will
    win this time if they make it there.  Remember my prediction....
    
    Denver and Dallas in the Superbowl !!!
    
    BG

      Hey Jack,  I don't know about the skins' losing to donks....
    
      I know of a guy that will take at least a $100 (unofficial) wager
    that says the Broncs and cowgirls don't get to the SB together this
    year.  I was next to the core 8 break room yesterday and said it will
    be denver & dallas in the bowl, and this guy stands up and says I bet
    $500 that they both don't go,  and of course I just laughed and said I
    was joking 'cause I don't think either will go......
    
    	Tj

    
    
       Last Night on ESPN they said Wrong Way Jay has two sprained
    ankles.  That our man of the Future Todd M. was gonna start.  HE
    was excited.  Raiders all the way.    
    
    Mike    

    
     New era...  HAAAAAAAAAAA !!!
    
     Todd M. Is a proven drug user...  Do you really think that
    he'll be any kind of leader.  Can't wait to see K.C. wipe
    the field with the Faiders and their coke head QB...
    
    Big Game

    That Marinovich was a drug user has been proven....but to suggest that
    that makes him incapable of being a quality QB and/or leader is way off
    base (IMO)!!  Possibly the only difference between him and any other
    quality QB is that we KNOW he did drugs.  Other successful players were
    fortunate to not get caught at their vices.  Also, IMHO, suggesting
    that anyone is forever dogsh*t due to prior indiscretions in their
    lives demonstrates major league ignorance!!!
    
    
    HTH,
    
    Nelly

       Besides, Todd's dad wouldn't let him eat Twinkies! How cain he miss?
                                               Denny

    Well,
    Two QB's come to mind who had the rep(Ah repeat rep) of alcohol/drug
    use and did ok, namely Stabler and Namath. 
    
    As far as Marinovich, he was brought up with the strictest of health
    diets; i.e., I'd be more afraid of he going into a junk food frenzy,
    steenkin' up the joint, and claimin' a pseudo-Twinkie defense. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

       Musta been the T-bird!

    
     I was Half Joking when I said that Todd would never be a leader
    because of his past drug use,  But only half.  It's proven that
    Cocaine in one of the most addictive drugs around.  It is also a 
    fact that better than 60% of drug users and Alcoholics begin using
    the stuff again in a very short time after "Cure".  If Todd. can keep
    his nose clean, especially now that he's got big $$ in his pocket
    than more power to him.  Also, think how much better Kenny and Joe
    might have been had they been clean.  
    
    BG

    It's about time they give the kid a chance, he couldn't do much worse
    than Schroeder and Evans did last week. He played in one pre-season
    game this year against the Cowpokes and did pretty good, he came into
    the game in the second half and scored at least one TD, I know it was
    only pre-season but still, he led the Raiders to victory. He looked
    very precise in that game, he didn't allow room for mistakes, I figure
    he'll be doing more handing-off than anything this weekend, but if need
    be the kid can throw. Also, the Raiders have eight players who were
    selected to the Pro_bowl :
    
    Ethan Horton, TE
    Steve Wisniewski, Gd
    Don Mosebar, C
    Greg Townsend, DE
    Ronnie Lott, S
    Jeff Gossett, P
    Jeff Jaeger, K
    Tim Brown, Return Spec.
    
    Carlos

    I was surprised to see that the New England Patriots are ranked higher
    offensively in the AFC than the Raiders.  The Pats offense has
    generated more yards than Schroeder and Co.

    re .394
    
    Not too suprising. The Raider's ground game has fallen off a cliff this
    year without Bo Jackson. Allen is still a good back, but not a
    300-carry a season back. Roger Craig is through, and Smith is a good
    complement, not a feature guy. On the passing side, Millen has 2 or 3
    300 yard games, and a few others where he's been over 250. Can't say
    the same for Schroeder.
    
    The difference is that Schroeder can generate big plays and points. The
    Pats are still learning.
    
    re Lott
    
    Score a BIG one for Al Davis. And you better believe that the Niners'
    braintrust is kicking themselves of this one. The Niners wanted to
    offer Lott a one year deal with an option, the Raiders were glad to get
    him with a two year deal. Great move. The Niners missed Lott's
    leadership in a huge way. 
    
    I've no doubt his loss probably cost the Niners a playoff berth.
    
    Doc

    
     Congrats to the Raiders for the 8 Pro Bowl picks...  As a 
    defense,  they played great baal in all but a few games this year.
    As an offense however,  they were offensive.  I still can't
    understand why Uncle Al let Wrong Way Jay hang on so long.  It
    became painfully obvious to me and 90% of this file that Jay
    was a loser early in 1990.  Somehow, he managed to hang on with
    the usually ruthless Al Davis for another season.  Anyone know
    what the scoop is here.  Could it be that Al just couldn't admit
    that he made a mistake when he traded for Wrong Way Jay.
    
    
    Big Game

      The faids got 2 offensive lineman in the PB,  but why?   There line
    was lackluster and didn't produce much in the way of a running attack.
    
      Lott has to be in the top running for defensive MVP, and Townsend
    deserved the selection as well.
    
    	Tim

 how often did Wrong Way get sacked? 

 might be the answer might not..

 mike

I was surprised to see Ethan Horton make the Pro-Bowl.  But, before
anyone gets on my case, I'll admit that I only watched LA play two or
three times this year.  But, I never did see Horton have a particularly
good game, either.  I did seem him drop quite a few catchable balls,
though.

Anyone want to show me where I'm wrong?  I mostly am just wondering
if he really had a Pro-Bowl year.

Jerry

He ate the seachickesn alive both times they played the raiders. I'm pretty 
sure he couldda made the pro-bowl based on what he did against us alone...
However as his owner in FFL_B I have to say that he did have an excellent
year and seems to have made a great transition from running back to TE.

He'll only improve....

Considering the extrame lack of pass catching talent at TE in the NFL I say he
deserves the nod. There are a lot of great blocking TE's but not too many 
catching ones. The usuals (holman,kay,Miami, green -pitts,Mckellar) didn;t
really have great years...

Metz

    Watch for a star to be born this weekend! If he chokes it won't mean
    much cause it's expected from rookie QB's (?) but if he tears it up,
    the rest of the AFC West could kiss any hopes for the future goodbye.
    
    By the way, how did such superstars like Staubach, Bradshaw, Montana,
    Marino, Fouts, Moon, Stabler, etc...etc.. do in their first couple of
    NFL games? Did any of them cause an immediate impact, or is that
    unheard of for QB's?
    
    Carlos 

    How about any others (ever) that were not mentioned?
    
    

    surely wasn't Wrong Way Jay,  or Stabler, or Plunkett...
    And we all know it wasn't Elway...  He stunk it up for a few years !
    
    BG

    A few years.....a few years...?....He's still stinking it up Big_Shame!
    
    

    I should have known better than to put that in here with 
    slimey raiders fans on the loose...  Al I can say Carlos
    is he's put another AFC west championship under his cap.
    Thats a hell of a sight more than Wrong Way can say this
    year.  When the Faiders have a QB to speak of, come see me
    and we'll compare Elway to him... until then  TTTHHHHHHPPPPTTTTTT!!!!!!
    
    BG   ;^)

The kid play's in 1 game and all ready he's the second coming 
of Stabler. Give me a break. Enberg and Walsh were making me 
sick talking about Marinovich. Let's see what the kid does over the
course of a FULL season. Then I'll be raving with the best of them.



Steve

    
    But do you think they showed his parents on tv enough?

>But do you think they showed his parents on tv enough?

Especially his dick haid father.  It's too bad teh guy continues to have any
influence on the kid's life. [No, I don't meant to open that rat hole again.]

     Hey Carlos... I'm guessing by your P_Name that you watched
    In Living Color last night.  Wasn't Homey just great as Santa
    or I mean Homey Clause...  
    
     From what I saw of Todd,  he looks like he could be a good QB
    for the Faikers.  I don't think he'll do anything for them this 
    late in the year though.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him lose
    hi first to starts but people shouldn't take that as a sign of things
    to come.  Todd looks like he may have the talent and poise to become
    the Faikers QB of the future, true...  But the second comming of the
    Snake he is not,  at least not yet !!
    
    BG
    
    

    I think you're right about Marinovich not being the second coming of
    "the Snake". Although he is a lefty, wears #12, and if he coulda got
    the ball one more time I think he coulda pulled a last second victory
    yesterday, ala Ken Stabler. I do think though, that I was right on the
    money when I said last week that a star would be born. I also think
    that this kid could be even better than the "Snake", ahh!...I know..I
    know...blasphemy! ...but still....Maybe we should nickname name him the
    "Coral Snake", I think coral snakes are highly venomous, and bright
    red! Yes that sounds good, I think he just went from Baby-Snake to
    Coral-Snake. Al Davis did it again, everybody thought that signing
    Marinovich in the first round was utterly foolish, but i think uncle Al
    in all his football genious is probably smilin from ear to ear right
    now! Even if the Raiders don't do much in the playoffs this year, their
    future looks very bright, imagine Todd launching it to the Rocket,
    scary huh?
    
    Carlos

      I saw some highlites, and don't get to excited, even though you faider
    fans need/have a reason to be excited at the QB position. Will you rant
    and rave after the chiefs sack todd 5-6 times next week?
    
    
     He threw what 3 tds,  and thats good,  but 1 game doesn't make him
    into an instant star.  Besides he didn't win...
    
       Please play Jay,  that would be a sure loss for faids.
    
    	Tim

        This was in todays Mercury News reprinted without permission.

                                Happy Holidays!        Night Flier   ~~v~~

                   SCHROEDER THE RAIDER QUARTERBACK
       (Sung to the tune of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer)


Schroeder the Raider Quarterback,
had a very shaky arm.

And when he missed his targets,
Davis cursed with much alarm.

All of the Raider fan clubs
Used to call him dirty names.

They never gave poor Schroeder
Any chance to share the blame.

Then one Sunday in LA,
Shell stepped up and said,

"Jay it's time for me to see
Marinovich instead."

Then the Raider fans were clapping
Till they learned it's all not Jay.

Even with Todd at Quarterback,
Their team can lose anyway.

                                                       

	Saturday's early game:
	  L.A.Raiders 9-7-0 at Kansas City 10-6-0
	Saturday's late game:
	  Atlanta 10-6-0 at New Orleans 11-5-0

	Sunday's early game:
	  Dallas 11-5-0 at Detroit 12-4-0 or Chicago 11-5-0
	Sunday's late game:
	  N.Y.Jets 8-8-0 at Houston 11-5-0

    >> Will you rant and rave after the Chiefs sack todd 5-6 times next
    >> week?
    
    They didn't sack him once yesterday, what makes you think they'll do it
    Saturday?
    
    >> Sounds like you're ready to compare him to Montana
    
    He's better than Montana...(:-) )...it took Montana a couple of seasons
    to make an impact. Besides like you said Tim, we Raiders fans finally
    have something to be exicited about at QB, don't burst my bubble yet!
    At least wait until the kid chokes. By the way, I'm not the only one
    who has praise for Todd, so does Shottenheimer, Cherry, Shell, T.
    Brown, Tom Weir, Walsh..etc..etc...the rookie's made a great first
    impression. Also, by comparison to Mr. Ed, a seasoned veteran playing
    against the worst team in the division, Marinovich, who played against
    the second best team in the division, does look like a star. 
    
    Carlos
    

      Well it will be tough not to burst your bubble,  but since its X-mas
    time,  then I guess I can wait til the 26th.
    
    	Have a good one!
    	Tim

>    Also, by comparison to Mr. Ed, a seasoned veteran playing
>    against the worst team in the division, Marinovich, who played against
>    the second best team in the division, does look like a star. 
    
    And Elway's team posted the W while Todd and the "Commitment to
    Excellence" boys posted their THIRD STRAIGHT loss.
    
    Joe
     

    >> When the Faiders have a QB to speak of, come see me and we'll
    >> compare Elway to him... until then  TTTHHHHHHPPPPTTTTTT!!!!!!
    
    Hey Big Game, is this a little earlier then you expected!
    
    Marinovich   3 TD's, 0 sacks, 243 yds, 0 int against the 2nd best in
    the division.
    
    Elway        0 TD's, 6 sacks, 196 yds, 1 int against the worst team in
    the division.
    
    Who's the veteran, and who's the rookie? HaaaHa..Heee...!
    
    Carlitos

    
     Boy...  You people just can't seem to get it through you thick
    haids, can you.  Elway WINS, Period...  He is the winningest 
    active QB in the NFL since 1984...  Thats what, 7 years running.
    Think about it !!  Who gives a sh*t about the QB Stats and ratings
    and all that other BS.  What is the Bottom Line.  In case you don't
    know I'll tell ya !!  It's wins baby.  Wins, Wins, Wins thats all
    that matters.  That coupled with the fact the Elway is the toughest
    QB in the league (Kelly's Right up there too) and rarely misses a 
    start and you have a consistent winner.  I get really sick of the
    Elway bashing that goes on in here.  The guy is one of, if not the 
    most feared QB by defenses around the league.  Put Elway on a team 
    like the 49ers of old, the 85 Bears, the Fish of the early `70s 
    and he's as good as anyone that played on those teams.  Put him
    on the Championship Steelers team and they go undefeated.  Calling
    Elway a loser, or a choke, or just an average QB is a joke.  The
    Man is the Proto type QB of the future.  90% of the teams in the NFL
    would kill to have the guy on their team.
    
     Todd Marinovich will be good.  You can see that he has the Talent
    and poise to become a starter for the Faiders, there is no question
    about that.  But, to compare him to the Snake, Stalbach(sp?) or 
    Montana is pure BS.  the guy has started on game, count it one.
    Yes, he looked good and threw for three TD's but he lost the game.
    The fact of the matter is,  the score make it look like the game was
    much closer than it really was.  Todd can thank the Faider defense
    for even being in a position to make it close.  The Chiefs should have
    won the game by 10-17 pts. but missed some opportunities that they
    had to score more.  The bottom line is that Marinovich has the talent
    to be a winner,  he has yet to prove he is one however. 
    
     The Faiders will lose to K.C. this weekend.  Not because Todd or Jay
    but because K.C. is the better team.  The Faiders have pulled their
    patented end of season slide into mediocrity and will be home for new
    years.  I personally would like to see Todd work out for the Faiders.
    having 3 great teams in the AFC West (Denver, K.C., and the Faiders)
    can't help but make them all better and in turn help the entire AFC
    to reach the calibar of play in the NFC today.  The NFC (as much as I 
    hate to say it) is and has been playing better football that the AFC
    for years.
    
    Big Game

      Its a good thing your in a good mood Jack;^)

    Well, I gotta get all my shots in today...  I'm outa here till
    the 6th of Jan..  See ya all and have a great holiday season
    
    BG

    Well, tommorrow's the big game and it looks like the rookie will be
    getting the start again. The Raiders are 40:1 odds against winning the
    superbowl. Defense has been the Raiders bread and butter all year long,
    but in the last three games (all losses) they have played poorly, if
    they can snap out of it and get back to form I think the rookie could
    lead the team on offense to make the big plays. Look for a lot of quick
    short passes to both Allen and Craig. Also watch for Tim Brown, and the
    other receivers and tight-ends to be a factor now that they have a
    decent QB. Hopefully Howie, and Golic will have recovered enough to
    help stop the run and put some pressure on grampa DeBerg.
    
    Raiders by 7 or more!
    
    Carlos

      By 7 or more?   Maybe if they play like they did in the Monday
    nighter against the Chiefs a couple of months ago,  but this time they
    have to stop choking.
    
      The boy at QB is good for faids (maybe),  but don't be suprised to
    see him benched if the pressures and chokes come into play.  Of course
    if Jay is playing,  then go bowling, 'cause there is no reason to watch
    your team choke.
    
      Wait a minute.  I said choke alot in this reply.  Maybe a new name
    for this team is in order;^)   Any takers?
    
    	Tim

    I can't believe the Chiefs are only favored by 4 points - they should
    be favored by 4 touchdowns.
    
    I'll be shocked if the Faids are in it after halftime.
    
    
    Joe

    >> Any takers?
    
    Hey Tim, the donks already have dubbs on that one, after their three
    chokes in the big game, although the vikes might flip you for it.
    
    Carlos

    Carlos, the Donks never choked, they flat got their  @$$#$ kicked.

    Marinovich, well he played like a uh....a rookie. The Chiefs were
    expecting him and they threw him into confusion with different looks.
    It was a good game though (matter of fact all of 'em were this
    weekend), and I really thought they were going to pull it off in the
    4th qtr....until they self destructed with all them penalties (wonder
    how much the refs charged Shottenheimer :-) Nick Bell was having a
    field day out there. Oh well, I guess this wraps up another good season
    for the Raiders and we'll just have to wait till nexted year as the
    saying goes. 
    
    Carlos

>    It was a good game though 

    Are you maybe talking about the Atlanta-NO game, Carlos???  I admit I
    didn't sit down and watch this and only caught bits and pieces of it,
    but everytime I glanced at the TV one team was either stumbling on
    offense, turning the ball over, or being penalized.
    
    Well, Marinovich proved he can be the successor to Schroeder.  Four
    interceptions - Schroeder would be proud of that one.  Plus he fumbled
    one away too.  Not too bad.
    
    Now it's time to pull for those Faider-killin' Chiefs to go into
    Luckalo and whip that cocky-assed Thurman Thomas and his Bills.
    
    
    Joe

      I say the same Joe.  It was a sloppy game,  with 4 defensive starters
    on Chiefs being out.  The Chiefs didn't take advantage of the rookies
    mistakes.   This score was much closer than it should have been.  Heck, 
    mr reliable Lowery didn't have that great of a day.
    
      I told you guys not to get to excited about Todd.  He came out and
    thru-up all over himself.  He was lucky that Thomas went out with the
    accelerated heart beat.  He may be good one day,  but pleeaassee wait
    until he proves himself.
    
      Jay will be riding the pine next year,  or maybe traded.
    
      Chiefs beat faiders 3x this year,  and the faids go out on a 4 game
    skid!!!!
    
      I don't think the faids had a good year.  Yeh they beat the Broncos
    2x,  but the only other winning team they beat was the 49'rs,  and I
    think the 9'rs had a loosing record at the time they played.
    
      Next year Carlos......
    
    	Tim

A sloppy game for sure. 

Don't know what got into Marinovitch - he telegraphed his passes all afternoon.
Every time he dropped back, however, I thought I was looking at Kenny Stabler 
making a comeback.

The obvious statement here is - don't judge Marinovitch by the KC game.  He is 
21 (22?) years old, and starting his second NFL game ever.  It was a lot to ask
of him, and hopefully his future is still bright.

=Bob=

    
    I don't care how lousy Schroeder was down the stretch, there was no way 
    Marinovitch should have got the start..  seeing as little offense was 
    required to win the game I think Jay would have won it for the Raiders.
    
    Oh, well.. who am I to second guess Art Shell?  
    
    /Jeff

      I'm not sure if I was judging the boy,  I just basically showed that
    after his 1st game 2 weeks ago,  and alot of people made him out to
    be the next Stabler or Montana,  that he isn't.  He needs to prove
    himself before he is the faiders savior.
    
       Tim

Marinovich couldn't carry the Snake's jock.  He is SO overrated....

'Saw

    The Raiders are probably at as low a point now as I've ever seen them.
    QB controversy still. Bo gone. Allen, as much as I even hate to say it,
    for all practical purposes is through. Howie couldn't finish. 
    They ended on a 4 game loosing streak including 2 at home. Defeated
    twice on monday night games. Next year they get a playoff team's 
    schedule again. It wasn't smart to expect snake II to pull their 
    butts out of a jam. Al would be wise to dummy up. 
    
    BoB 

    I think Shell (Davis?) did the right thing putting Marinovich in there.
    They had nothing to lose, Schroeder was choking miserably, at worst
    they lose in the playoffs (like Schroeder woulda probably done too) and
    the kid gets a little taste of the NFL since he will more than likely
    be replacing Jay as the starter next year, and at best he gets the
    offense going and they have a chance at winning it all. Just ask any of
    the donk fans and they'll tell you that there was no way Jay coulda
    took 'em to the big dance. :-) As far as Allen being through, the
    experts have been saying that for the last five years, except they
    forgot to tell Marcus. Besides, Nick Bell is the Raiders future @ RB,
    and he'll do just fine. I think you might be right about Howie being
    questionable though, sad to say. As far as Al dummying up, well, he's
    the football genius and we're just DEC employees. How are we gonna
    advise him, or how would it be if he came and advised you on your job?
    
    Carlos

    Todd Marinovich will be the next Kenny "The Snake" Stabler!

    Right...  And Al Davis isn't connected to the MOB either...
    
    Not !!
    
    Big Game Junta !
    
    

    >>QUASER::HUNTER "Steelers To The Super Bowl In `93" 
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Geeez Big-Shame, I know the doinks are an embarrasment and all, but if
    you was gonna change loyalties you coulda at least picked a real team
    like da Raiders.....:-)
    
    Carlitos

      A real team like the raiders?   Thanks for the joke of the day
    Carlos!

     Great come back Tim...  
    
     Carlos,  I'm a man of my word.  I lost a little wager to FaKe
    and the P-Name is the outcome.  I wish others (MorT for example)
    would live up to their word as well.  Where are ya, T...  Didn't
    think you'ld be one to slack on a bet big guy...
    
    Big Game Junta

    
    	I'm pretty sure MrT WON his bet.  The donks covered.  If'n
    	you don't believe me, check out Slashah's p-name.
    
    	Claybroon

     Oh Yea...  You're right, Clay...  I forgot the had an unmanly bet
    with a spread and all.  Sorry MorT...
    
    
    	Big Game (With foot in mouth, as usual)

    Hey Tim and BG, will see how well the Doinks fare nexted year with a
    real schedule....look for a repeat of the '90 season. Big Ba(l)d John
    is ready for the pasture, he's getting injured more often (or so he
    says :-) and he's taking longer to heal, he's also lost a couple of
    steps in his dance (scrambling) routine, and his gun ain't what it used
    to be. I firmly believe that this season was likely his lasted chance
    at getting a ring....and of course he (and the rest of the team) choked.
    Like I said before, next years schedule will not be kind to the Donks,
    and two years from now Elway will fer sure have seen better days.
    Meanwhile the pride-and-poise boys will be tearing it up as usual (or
    should I say better than the usual of the lasted few years, but equal
    to the usual of the franchise's history). They've got a good blend of
    veterans (Howie,Marcus,Golic,Townsend,Lott,etc..) and up and coming
    youth (Marinovich,N.Bell,S.Davis,A.Smith,Wiesnewski,Glover,N.Harrison)
    which give them a solid nucleus. They've also got the 'Rocket' waiting
    in the wings (which may or may not happen). The point is that the
    Raiders future is looking real sweet while the Donks, with the decline
    of Elway, have nothing to look forward to except memories...HtH...:-)
    
    Carlos

    
     Boy,  You sure have talked youself into beleiving that one haven't
    you, Carlos.  Can't wait for the Broncos to slam dance on the happless
    faiders next year.  Bet that'l wake you up a bit !!
    
    ;^)
    
    Big Game

    Kinda like they've slam danced on them the last 2.5 years BG......
    ...HaaaHaaa! Keep dreaming....

      The boys of pride and poise?  Are you talking about 49'rs or skins?
    
      And this history stuff I have been hearing for 6 years,  but nothing
    has resembled that except last year.
    
      Yes the Broncos will have a tough schedule,  something the faids
    haven't seen in some time.  This year was the worst they had, and they
    only beat 1 winning team this year.  They beat the 49'rs when they were
    at or under .500!
    
      What does the faids schedule look like next year?  Do they play indy,
    tampa, green bay, vikes, and rams?   That should be cake!
    
    	Have a nice day,
    
    	Tim

    Actually, I like Elway's chances in the 1990s if and when he slows down 
    a bit and has to use his head and arm to get the job done, not his legs.  
    I honestly believe that in Elway's case the mobility and superior
    athletic ability has been a double-edged sword, helping the Broncos in
    the overall picture but hurting them against the cream of the crop
    defenses.  In NFL history, many QBs have really bloomed after the age 
    of 30...
    
    glenn
    

>    Actually, I like Elway's chances in the 1990s if and when he slows down 
>    a bit and has to use his head and arm to get the job done, not his legs.  
>    I honestly believe that in Elway's case the mobility and superior
>    athletic ability has been a double-edged sword, helping the Broncos in
>    the overall picture but hurting them against the cream of the crop
>    defenses.  
    
    I feel one of John's major weaknesses is that he flushes out of the
    pocket too soon.  And when he's trying to avoid would-be tacklers that
    takes away from his ability to spot the open receiver.  But whether
    that will make him a better passer is a doubt in my mind.  I don't
    think he would be a great pocket passer - a good portion of his big
    plays come when he runs or improvises after he eludes the rush.
    
    
    Joe
   
     
     

    >What does the faids schedule look like next year? Do they play Indy,
    >Tampa, Green Bay, Vikes, Rams?
    
    I wish....I think they play Washington, Dallas, Philly, and either the
    Giants or Cards, plus from the AFC they play Houston, Miami, Cincy, and
    Cleaveland......I think....? Plus their divisional rivals...including
    the doinks...now that's cake :-)
    
    By the way, when both of our teams schedules for last year were made
    two years ago, the Raiders had one of the tougher schedules (based on 
    their opponents records from the '90 season) and the Donks were given a
    schedule that was more at their level....lasted place! Next years
    schedule is based upon this years performance, so both the faids and
    the doinks will be playing against playoff caliber teams (I think), the
    Raiders are used to it and should do well, the doinks, well they'll
    try.....
    
    Carlos

      I think this is our way of doing that Hawk.  You would be suprised at
    how many faider fans I get along with & party with ,etc...
    
      We usually harass each other about the teams and end up coming back
    to reality,  unlike in this electronic bar at times.
    
      I also think that these are the last "stabs" at each others teams
    before next season.  It will be quite in here compared to the last 4
    months.
    
    	Tim

    Besides, Elway still caint hold Randall's jock !

    Doc,
    Give us the low-down on this "Free T" business ( maybe in da junk note)
    
    MikeL
    

    I think Tim's right, we's just taking one last chance at the cheap
    shots before nexted season, it's all in good fun...
    
    As for the Raiders schedule next year, this is REALLY the way it is.
    They'll be at home against the Browns, Bills, Cowboys, and Giants and
    they'll be on the road against the Redskins, Dolphins, Eagles, and
    Bengals.....plus their regular home and away games against
    interdivisional rivals....not hardly cake by any stretch. How does the
    Donks schedule look???
    
    Carlos

    Carlos,
    
    My guess is that Denver will be playing the same teams you listed that
    the Raiders are playing, except Denver will be playing against the
    Almighty Great Raiders, whereas the Raider team will get to play two
    games against the lower than whale dung in the ocean Denver Broncos.
    
    So by your standards, Raiders have an easier schedule!?
    
    -- Jim

    Denver's schedule for next year is nearly the same as the Faids'.
    
    Home games: NY Giants, NY Jets, Houston, Dallas, AFC West
    Away games: Philadelphia, Washington, Luckalo, Clevescum, AFC West
    
    Luckalo hasn't played in Denver since the '77 season.  
    
    
    Joe
        

 Glen, I think you're assuming that John posses more mental capability. He
 doesn't. The nineties won't be any better...

 sad but true...

 mike

      Anyone see the Simpsons lasted night? Lisa was picking winners for
    Homer. I was on the floor after this one. The first 2 lines may not be
    exact, but the last one is.
    "I like the Dolphins, because they're pure of heart"...
    "I like the Seahawks because they strive for success"...
    "I like the Raiders because they cheat"!!
                                       Denny

 It was the 49ers who were pure of heart...yeah great episode. I was rolling
 my wife Bitching cause of Bart's cool present...

 mike

                                                  
    > Anyone see the Simpsons lasted night? Lisa was picking winners for
    > Homer. I was on the floor after this one. The first 2 lines may not be
    > exact, but the last one is.
    
    I read in SI last night that there'll be in an episode in February
    where Homer plays on an all-Star team with a collection of MLB stars
    (who do their own voices):  Roger, Wade, Straw, Jose, Mattingly, 
    Ozzie Smith, Steve Sax, Mike Scioscia, and Ken Griffey Jr.  They said
    something about how the players assume alternate personalities such
    that Darryl becomes a selfless, hustling team player and the like.
    Sounds like a can't-miss...
    
    glenn
    
    

    Uncle Al, enshrined in the Hall of Fame!! News at 11:00....

    Most undeserving Appointment tot he HOF, EVER !!!
    Uncle Al's a Bum...
    
    ;^)
    
    BG

    Ahh contraire mon fraire! Uncle Al shoulda been inducted his first year
    of eligibility. If it tweren't for Al baby, there probably wouldn't be
    an NFL (AFC & NFC) as we know it today, nor a Superbowl (although the
    Bills and the Doinks probably wouldn't mind that). Or the NFL's first
    black head coach .....etc ...etc.
    
    The only reason he wasn't already inducted is not because of his
    contributions to the sport, but because he's also a shrewd businessman.
    
    Carlos

    Al's deserving but he's still an asshole.
    
    Joe

    Well said, Joe... !! 
    
    

    Corner back, Garry Lewis was traded to the Cowboys for an undisclosed
    draft pick. 
    
    Carlos

    Carlos...  Thats a pretty heavy P-name you got there...  I think it
    could be considered a Political statement...   Mods,  What do you
    think??????
    
    JMHO,
    
    BG

    Does anyone have a list of who the Raiders made available for plan B.

    Hey Big-Game, I'm not much of a politician nor is my P-name politically
    motivated, it's just my own personal opinion of how warped our
    societies morals have become. My P-name is perhaps a little graphic and
    disturbing, but then again so is the actual act of taking an innocent
    life. If the mods feel that it's inappropriate for this conference I'll
    change it.......maybe even back to "Gomer,Gilligan,Jethro,Elway"....
    of course that might be considered libelous (sp?) though....hmmm?
    Can't win, can I.
    
    Carlos
    

    The Raiders left the following 15 players unprotected:
    
    Tom Benson lb, Roger Craig rb, Derrick Crudup s, Mike Dyal te,
    Vince Evans qb, James FitzPatrick g, Rory Graves t, Roy Hart dt,
    Jaimie Holland wr, Tahaun Lewis cb, Napolean McCallum rb, 
    Reggie McElroy t, Vance Mueller rb, Joel Patten t, and 
    Jerry Robinson lb.
    
    Carlos

    
    Hey Carlos, I agree with you.   If we start regulating p-names its time
    to close up shop.   If I looked long enough I could probably find
    something offensive about many p-names.   Unless they contain
    expletives or personal attacks most are ok and show some individuality. 
    As for Big Game, well what would the animal rights groups think about 
    hunting.   
                
    Lets not censor to the point of being ridiculous, or we'll all be
    nothing but proper names and node addresses.
    
    JMHO,
    
    Pat
    
   

I can't speak for the other moderators, but I personally have no problem
with p-names.  If anything, they are probably the highest form of
personal expression in notes.

As long as a p-name doesn't cast aspersions on a person or group, 
as long as it is not blatantly filthy in terms of language, it's okay.


And besides, I will remind everyone once again that we ARE all adults,
capable of knowing what is "rignt and wrong", and of knowing how
not to offend others.


JMHO,
'Saw

>And besides, I will remind everyone once again that we ARE all adults,
>capable of knowing what is "rignt and wrong", and of knowing how
>not to offend others.
    
    JD will just start a pro-choice p_n when he sees it.

    Thanks Pat and Frank.
    
    Carlos

    thump thump thump

    This one is for you Saw ! :-)

>    This one is for you Saw ! :-)


Do me one about Meg Ryan and then *I'LL* smile   ;^)


'Saw

    
     Wow !!  Didn't mean to stir the pot that deeply...  Maybe I'll start
    a pro choice p-Name...  
    
    BG

    Last week sometime there was this little article in the local
    Albuquerque rag about Uncle Al and company going after Steve Young,
    has anybody else heard anything (or anything more) about this. 
    
    Young would be a good addition to the Raiders (he wouldn't be my first
    choice, but...), he couldn't do much worse than Schredder did last year
    huh? And I don't think Marinovich is quite ready *yet*. I do however
    believe that if he (T.M.)were to get the call he could carry the team but
    there would no doubt be many beginner mistakes as witnessed in the
    playoff game against K.C.. The acquisition of Young would give the
    Raiders a solid QB, allow the Raiders to trade Schredder while it's
    still possible for them to get something for him (haa!), and allow
    Marinovich a little bit more time to develop. Then again, I kinda think
    that if Marinovich just gets thrown right into the middle of things he
    will develop even faster, he'll have no choice (the old sink or swim
    theory). In which case the Raids could spend their money on some OL's
    or Dl's instead of Young, and keep Schredder as the backup, which is
    right up his alley......
    
    Carlos

      Uncle Al must like the lefties....  Young would make the faids big
    contenders IMO ;-(
    
    	Tim

    Foget it Carlos, the Niners are looking for a RB, preferably a big
    power back. 
    
    What will LA do, trade Craig back to the Niners ? :-)
    
    Doc

    RE -1:

        Actually they are more interested in the DB position. They are also
    looking for more draft choices in the earlier rounds this year so a
    Steve Young trade for a couple of top Raider picks may not be out of
    the question. With those draft picks they would look to acquire talented
    DB's and talented running back in this years draft.

        As for Craig (I saw the smiley face).....He could be back with the
    49ers in a couple of years. But only as a coach. As far as using him as
    a running back if it was me I wouldn't do it. He just hasn't got that
    move or burst anymore like he used to (also seems to have picked up
    fumble_itis).  :^)

                                                   Night Flier      ~~v~~

      >  Foget it Carlos, the Niners are looking for a RB, preferably a big
      >  power back.
      >
      >  What will LA do, trade Craig back to the Niners ? :-) 
    
      Well Doc, the Raiders do have Nick Bell, and they don't come any 
      bigger or more powerful than him, but I hardly think that Uncle
      Al would even entertain the thought of trading him away....
      ...even for big Joe. This guy is the Raiders future as far as the
      running game goes, he's like 6'2", 254lbs, can run the 40 in 4.45,
      and to top it off he can catch. I'd like to see the Raiders get 
      another RB that's smaller and can fly around the outside as well as 
      cut and weave, just to compliment Bell ala Okoye and Williams. But
      again, don't count on the Raiders trading this kid away. They also
      have Napolean McCallum, who's a pretty big, power back, and this is 
      alot more feasable, although I don't know if the 49'ers would think
      so. As far as Craig goes, well he did lead the Raiders last year in 
      rushing yardage, but only because of injuries to Allen and Bell. And
      although Roger is only a shadow of his former self, he still can be
      very effective if he isn't used as the workhorse. If the Raiders can 
      keep Steve Smith, Nick Bell, Marcus Allen, and Roger Craig healthy
      next year, other teams (IMHO) will have a difficult time stopping the 
      run.
    
      Carlos

    The Raiders have reached agreement with Aundrey Bruce, the former #1
    overall pick in '88?, on a one year contract. Every year they go after
    LB's in plan B realing their need for them, however they never seem to
    draft them. Aarron Wallace being the exception. I would love to see
    them draft Eric Anderson from Michigan, he reminds me of Chris
    Spielman.
    
    Kenn

    Hey Kennn, who did Aundrey Bruce play for before??? 
    
    I agree with you, about the Raiders needing to go after a couple
    of solid 'young' LB's in the draft, although last year they did pick 
    up a solid linebacker in Winston Moss, on a trade with Tampa Bay.
    
    They could also use a little more youth in the DL. Golic and Long
    are some of the best in the business, but they're startng to feel
    the effects of age, especially towards the end of the season.
    
    Carlos

    Carlos,
             Bruce played for Auburn in College and was drafted #1 overall
    by the Falcons. He never really panned out for the Falcons for whatever
    reason at LB so they moved him to TE. Needless to say the Red Gun
    offense does not use a TE so they put him on plan B. There was talk in
    the b papers yesterday that the Raiders were interested in Carl Zander
    from the bengals and EJ Junior from the Dolphins. Neither of them does
    much for me. 
             I agree with thefact that they need some youth on the line
    however I feel they can address this next year. They have enough depth
    to last them for at least another year.
             I don't understand their decision of trading Gary Lewis. He
    was a solid nickle back. Are we going to have to Torn Dorn get burnt
    all year again??????
    
    Kenn
    
    BTW- I loved the trade for Winston Moss last year!

    Roger Craig signed with the Vikings either yesterday or today. 
    While he wasn't outstanding during his brief career with the Raiders,
    he did lead them in rushing yards last year, and did pretty good
    considering the way he was thrown in after Marcus Allen, and Nick Bell
    were injured. He pretty much was the Raiders rushing attack, despite 
    his unfamiliarity with the Raiders' offensive scheme, for the beginning
    of the season. I think he'll do well in Minnesota.
    
    Carlos
    
    

    Other Plan B deals that are Raider related:
     
    Mike Dyal, TE, signed with KC. You might recall Dyal was beginning to
    show signs of being a most excellent tight end before he was injured a
    couple of years back. If he recovers fully, he'll be a good pickup for
    the chiefs.
    Tahaun Lewis, CB, also signed with the chiefs.
    
    Roy Hart, DT, was a WLAF pickup of the Raiders last year. He spent most
    of the year on IR, and played sparingly in the last game or two. He
    signed with the Jets.
    
    On the other hand, these are Raider Plan B signings:
    
    Aundray Bruce, LB  (of course)
    Anthony Bell, LB, former #1 draft pick of the Cardinals, and played
    with the Lions last year. 
    (Anthony??) Dilwig, QB, another former #1 pick who played lasted year
    with the Packers.
    
    That's all I can remember right off the top, nobody really spectacular,
    like in previous years, but maybe some of these guys will be able to
    come in and contribute ala Winston Moss or something?
    
    Carlos 

    It has been reported that Todd Marinovich tested positive for drug use
    following the Raiders' last playoff game.

Marinovich, through his agent, has denied the report.

This is one of those cases wherein the media, in this case ESPN, cited
"unnamed league sources".

TTom

    A spokeswoman for the Raiders said that those who might comment were
    either out of town or unavailable. What I'm wondering is, if it's true
    why has it taken this long for anything to be said about it? It wasn't
    reported what drug was being abused either, but everybody knows about  
    Marinovich's past abuse of coke and marijuana. Also, you'd think that
    if the kid was all coked up the Raiders would've killed the Chiefs....
    ...or maybe that's just a myth.
    
    Carlos

Supposedly it was after the last game that he tested positive.

The news story said that he had an incentive clause - bonus, if you will
- if'n he stayed cleaned. Also, he's open for testing almost daily by
terms of his contract.

Meanwhile, the Raiders have Anthony Dilweg in camp and are actively
searching for more QBs.

TTom

       "we'll give you more dough if you don't do drugs!"
                                 Denny

>    What I'm wondering is, if it's true
>    why has it taken this long for anything to be said about it? 

    I was wondering the same thing.

       The leagues 'drug policy' is supposed to be confidentail.
                                 Denny

    re-1  Only for Joe Montana;^

Dilweg was GB #2 pick, 3 years ago.

daryll

    Re: Dilweg
    
    I thought I seen him playing yesterday for the Montreal WLAF team?
    If it was him, he wasn't very impressive...
    
    Carlos

      re- 1 Then Dilweg will fit right in with the faiders;^)))
    
    	Tim

    Delwig is playing for Montreal. Will McDonough reported in the Boston
    Globe that Marinovich is rumored to be suffering from an alcohol
    related problem. Which under league rules is handled the same as a
    "drug problem", to my knowledge. Supposedly he spent 4 weeks in a rehab
    center and is going to serve another 2 weeks in AA classes. 
    
    ESPN's, Mel Kiper reported that the Raiders are interested in taking
    Carl Pickens, WR Tenn., in the first round of the draft. I like
    Pickens, however I feel that the Raiders need help at LB, DB and OL.
    Any other rumors????
    
    Kenn

       ESPN or somebody also had a report over the weekend that the Raiders
    were interested in Klingler too. Marinovich may be a bust. Caint do
    them any good if he keeps getting suspended.
                                Denny

    The USA today had 2 mock drafts in it: Mel Kiper has the Raiders taking
    Carl Pickens WR Tenn. and Gordon Forbes has them taking DAle Carter DB
    Tenn. The Carter pick would seem to make more sense than Pickens, due
    to Ronnie Lotts age. 
    
    Kenn

    Well, my most recent edition of Raider news also had a mock draft,
    and they figure the Raiders will try to get some OL help. They've got
    the Raiders picking 6'6" 300lbs. OT, Ray Roberts....if he's still
    available.
    
    Carlos 

    Most of the draft notes I've been reading have stated that Roberts is 
    either going to be a star or a bust. They say he looks like a stiff in
    one game film and a star in another. One thing about the Raiders, they
    keep us guessing before the draft.
    
    Kenn

    The number one rule of the Draft is never tell anyone what you're
    really thinking.  It's a great big poker game.
    
    John

    Another thing about the Raiders and the draft...they usually try to get 
    the best player available instead of trying to fill their needs. 
    
    Carlos    (who'd kinda like to see the Raiders take a chance on Detmer)
    
    

    The Raiders picked Chester McGlockton, DL, Clemson, 6-4, 337lbs. with
    their first round choice. They also traded their 4th & 8th round picks
    to the Colts for Dickerson. Last year McGlockton had 7 sacks, and led
    the team with 17 QB pressures. I think this selection was a good one
    for the Raiders, especially since they play four games a year against
    two teams that have huge running backs that like to run right over the
    middle, (Chiefs & Chargers) also I'm kinda looking forward to watching
    this guy bounce on top of Mr. Ed a few times. :-) I also like the
    Dickerson trade, Eric's been saving himself for something....hopefully
    this is it. Anybody know who else the Raiders picked up from the second
    round on?
    
    Carlos
    
    

    The Raiders obtained Eric Dickerson from Indy. for a 4th and a 8th
    round pick. I'm not a big Dickerson fan, however I think it was a good
    move for the price they had to pay. They drafted three players in the
    first five rounds:
    1st rnd. (16th pick)- Chester Mcglockton DT Clemson. 6-3 7/8 337lbs.
    This kid is a monster! He was rated very high on most charts.
    
    2nd rnd. (32nd pick aquired in a trade with TB for their 2nd,3rd and
    7th round picks)- GReg Skrepenak OT Michigan. 6-6 1/4 317lbs. stock
    dropped drastically before the draft because of poor workouts. Worth a
    gamble I think. They need OL.
    
    5th rnd. (128 pick)- Derrick Hoskins DB S. Miss. 6-3 1/4 201lbs. Good
    on speacial teams. Has good speed. ( so the paper says!)
    
    ESPN was reporting that the 49ers were offering Steve young to the
    Raiders for their 1st & 2nd round picks along with Tim Brown. NOT!
    I would have liked to see them get Young but I don't want to see them
    get rid of Brown.
    
    Kenn

    Woah ! The Raiders got Dickerson for only a 4th and 8th rounder ? No
    conditional picks ?
    
    What a steal ....
    
    As for Young, he's good, but a #1, #2, and Brown ?
    
    Be for real ...

    Dickerson has always got a bad rap (rep) everywhere he was.  Maybe
    he deserved it but in this latest move he gave up about 50% or his
    income.  So the one thing people can no longer lable him with is
    being greedy.  Before the last 2 or 3 seasons he was average I
    believe around 1400yrds/per/season (I think it was this high but Im
    not positive).  The last 3 saesons have not been very productive but
    he did run behind the worst OL in football.  The Raiders might be what 
    dickerson has been looking for and hopefully viceversa as well.  Being
    a Dickerson Fan (Almost gave up on him but Ill give him one more year)
    Im looking forward to being a raider fan this year.....
    
    Of course they still have a QB problem it appears.... :-(
    
    							GO RAIDERS

Why trade for dickerson when you've got a young stud like Nick Bell ready to 
lead the league in rushing next year? The Raiders will cut Allen or use him 
sparingly next year to punish him for his contract holdouts. DIckerson and 
Allen will both be backing up Bell by the 2nd week of the season.

Granted they got him for cheap but why? 

Metz

> Why trade for dickerson when you've got a young stud like Nick Bell ready to 
> lead the league in rushing next year? 

    Because the Raiders like to collect old, washed-up players who used to
    be stars.
    
    :^)
    Joe     

    Bell will be a Pro Bowler, but he doesn't have any real speed to the
    outside, IMO. I can't see Bell being a breakaway threat - not in the
    Dickerson class. 

He may not have Dickerson's speed but he's definately got enough speed to 
turn the corner. The big question is why trade for Dickerson at all?

Is eric the great going to be happy playing 2nd string and carrying 10 times
a game and watching Bell carry 25 times a game (which he should be )

Metz

    >>Because the Raiders like to collect old, washed-up players who
    >>used to be stars.
    
    Yeah, like Ronnie Lott, Max Montoya, Bob Golic....just to name a few,
    these guy's are all washed up huh Joe?
    
    And to answer the 'why Dickerson at all' question. Lasted year, the way
    the Raiders liked to use Bell was during the second half after Roger
    Craig, Steve Smith and Co. tired the opposing teams defense, then
    they'd send in the heavy artillery which was pretty effective. At least
    when Bell was healthy.
    
    Carlos
    

 It may have only been a 4th and 8th but they also got to pay Eric 1.5 mill
 so he didn't come that cheap. If Eric gets motivate and plays again it's
 a good move. Bell's an FB so they should complement one another well. Marcus
 deserves more respect but unfortunately this is a business and he isn't getting
 any younger.

 Dickerson should be able to play for quite a few more years seeing ow he hasn't
 played the last two...;^)

    How much older is marcus allen compared to Dickerson ????
    
    							MaB

      Dickerson was probably brought in 'cause Marcus plays (doesn't play)
    hurt every year.  Didn't he sit out about 1/2 the season last year?
    
      Dickerson might help them,  but then again, his attitude will
    probably get in the way,  and thats if he shows up for camp;^
    
      Gee, to bad Craig didn't stick around,  that would have been uncle
    AL's dream backfield, a few years ago anyway!
    
      All this won't matter unless one of the QB's step up their play.
    
    	Tim

     I was going to jump on the "bash Eric" bandwagon, but I think that
    this might end up being a real good move for the Raiders. In Indy, Eric
    was always criticized for not playing the way the coaches wanted to see
    him used (over the middle passes, etc...). I think that Shell's
    IN-YOUR-FACE style of football will allow Eric to be used the way that
    he likes to play the game. Meaning, give him the ball and let him run.
    
    Condo

    Carlos hit it right on the nose. Bell comes in in the second half after
    teams are worn down. I would rather see Bell play the whole game, but
    that is not the way the Raiders use there backs. I think it was a good
    move, because last year, Marcus and Bell were both injured and the
    Raiders had to rely upon Craig. If this kid Skrepenak steps up and
    plays a decent left tackle, their line will be pretty solid. I think 
    Marinovich will do just fine (if he doesn't keep screwing up with the
    DRUGS). 
    
    Other Raider draft picks were:
    
    6th round 156th pick- Tony Rowell C Florida
    7th round 185th pick- Kevin Smith RB UCLA
    10th round 268th pick- Alberto White LB Texas So.
    12th round 324th pick- Tom Roth G Georgia So.
    
    Why Draft Kevin Smith (RB) over Eric Anderson LB from Michigan??? Every
    time I've seen Anderson play he looked great. He reminds me of the kid
    Spielman from Detroit. 

    Dickerson, who took a cut in pay to play for the Raiders, will turn in
    an excellent and productive year...perhaps one close to his Rams
    days...and hold out next year because he'll want to be paid his
    "worth."
    
    	--dan'l

    re .523
    
    Hmmm ... that's a thought.
    
    IMO,
    This is a good move for the Raiders because :
    
    1) Dickerson will be ready to play because he wants to get into a Super
    Bowl **badly**, and on a contending team like LA, he'll toe the line.
    
    2) Art Shell (unlike Meyer) will not tolerate any crap from Eric, and
    neither will the vets.
    
    3) He's healthy, has not taken many knocks over the last two years, and
    no matter what you say about him - he always comes to camp in shape.
    
    I feel bad for Marcus Allen, one of the most complete backs this game
    has ever seen. I think he'll probably come off the bench as a 3rd down
    back, play some FB, and spell Dickerson. But he is 35, and has taken a
    lot of hits. Less is more in the case of Allen. Bell's PT will also depend 
    on his willingness/ability to block.
    
    Doc
    his blocking. He and Dickersop

      Dickerson has had hamstring problems.  When he stayed out of camp a
    couple of years ago,  he pulled a hamstring and then never really
    recovered from it, IMMSMR.
    
    	Tim

    Yes but how much was due to the Hamstring and how much was due to
    the team he was on.  Here's a top notch running back, traded to a
    1/2 way decent team that does nothing but go down hill.  They have
    no Offensive line and they want him to run 30+ times a game for what
    2yrds a whack if hes lucky.  The O-line was collapsed before he got
    the ball...... Id get a little frustrated and sit down an extra long
    time with each injury under those circumstances.  We will have to
    wait and see... But if the Raiders QB's work out they will at least
    win there division....
    							MAB

Ah, remember the good old days, when athletes were payed peanuts, 
and played with heinous injuries because they loved the game....


I remember Bart Starr playing one time with torn abdominal muscles.
He couldn't straighten all the way up to throw, but went out, sucked it
up and got it done.   AFter the game, Lombardi wanted to know why he
couldn't straighten up, and Starr finally told him....


Today's stars are prima donnas.  Lots of running backs have had sieve-like
lines in front of them.  Some have toiled their entire careers behind
such travesties.

Dickerson is a big baby.....


'Saw

       I have no respect for guys like Dickerson. The guy refused to play,
    yet still expected to be paid. I'm not saying he wasn't good, but his
    'goodness' is totally past tense.
                                       Denny

 >> Ah, remember the good old days, when athletes were payed peanuts, 
 >> and played with heinous injuries because they loved the game....

    That's why guys like Jim Otto wake up in pain every morning of their
    lives. And they didn't just play wih injuries because they loved the 
    game they also did it because it was expected and players still play hurt 
    today. I have no problem with someone not playing due to an injury esp-
    ecially nowadays with the money that they make. The problem I have with 
    Dickerson is that he faked his injuries because he didn't want to play 
    behind an inferior o-line. Eric could have gone down as the best ever 
    instead he'll always be remembered as a head case and a primi dona. But 
    the Raiders have a tradition of turning other teams' problem players 
    into their stars so he may do well in LA.
    
    
    _Tommy

    Oh and no one in here as ever called in sick becasue they didnt
    feel like working that day... PPPPPAAAAA LLLLELEEEAAAASSSSEEE.
    
    You dont know what was going on with the coaching staff, the other
    players, the front office, his agent, his family, his financial
    endeavors.  People are so quick to jump on people when there down.
    Yes hes overpaid but they all are from the lowly specials teams to
    the Star QB none of them are worth what there paid.  And again how
    can you say anything about money when we was willing to take a 50%
    pay cut to get out of indy and play for a decent team ???  This is
    a job to him remember.  It takes guts to take a 50% cut in pay to
    work for someone/someplace where youll be happier, could you do it.
    
    							M.Air.Brooks

 >>   Oh and no one in here as ever called in sick becasue they didnt
 >>   feel like working that day... PPPPPAAAAA LLLLELEEEAAAASSSSEEE.
   
      So basically Brooksie, you're equating some guy who makes over a 
      million dollars a year to play a game and has six months of the year 
      off and then fakes an injury because he's not happy with some schmo who 
      works at DEC and wants to go fishing instead of work but doesn''t have 
      any vacation time left. PPPPPAAAAA LLLLELEEEAAAASSSSEEE. 

 >>   You dont know what was going on with the coaching staff, the other
 >>   players, the front office, his agent, his family, his financial
 >>   endeavors.  People are so quick to jump on people when there down.
 >>   Yes hes overpaid but they all are from the lowly specials teams to
 >>   the Star QB none of them are worth what there paid.  And again how
 >>   can you say anything about money when we was willing to take a 50%
 >>   pay cut to get out of indy and play for a decent team ???  This is
 >>   a job to him remember.  It takes guts to take a 50% cut in pay to
 >>   work for someone/someplace where youll be happier, could you do it.
   
      Eric has worn out his welcome everywhere he's gone and how do you
      figure he's down ? He's brought all of this on himself. He signs 
      contracts and then doesn't want to hold up his end. He demands trades 
      and then becomes a problem for the team he's traded to. He doesn't like 
      his offensive line so he fakes an injury. He had no choice but to take a 
      pay cut. He lives in LA he wanted to play there but LA wasn't going to
      pay him what Indy did and nobody else wanted a head case on their
      team.
    

    ...what Tommy said! Eric flat out didn't wanna play. It's fine and
    dandy to take a pay cut from Uncle Al. But I'll wait and see what
    happens in LA. I've got no use for guys like Dickerson. Comparing it to
    calling in sick at DEC is a BIG reach!
                                     Denny
    

 let see Eric fakes injury doesn't play. Joe Shmoo DEC superTechnowennie
 calls in sick and goes golfing.....

 sounds the same to me Denny?????

  ;^) many hhaaa

    I think Eric's attitude will change quickly when he gets to L.A. or
    he'll get his butt kicked. Howie Long, Ronnie Lott, Bob Golic, just 
    to name a few. If he still developes an attitude then his playing 
    days are done. I think this is his last chance.
    
                                                       Dan
    

       Lets see, Eric 'works' 6 months a year, 1 game per week and 3-4 days
    of practice (when he shows up). I'll have to axe my boss if I cain
    change my schedule. This 220+ day work year (plus MANY Saturdays) makes
    me feel like I'm not getting as good a deal as ol' Eric!
                                    Denny

      Dickerson is the first part of his last name.  Things may work out, 
    but probably not if he rides the pine more than Allen & Bell.
    
      Uncle Al put himself in the position that if Eric doesn't work out, 
    he will most likely have to waive him, because who in there right mind
    would want to trade for him?
    
      This is Bickerson's last year, if he lasts that long.  Of course this
    is JMO.
    
    	Tim

Dickerson is, plain and simple, a prima donna.

I'll give Tommy the guys like Otto, but I also have no use for someone
who makes that kind of money and is a baby becuause his offensive line
couldn't move my dead grandmother out of the way.


Calling in sick at DEC when you aren't and faking an injury when you're
a pro ball player are two completely different things.....


'Saw

    I don't know.....did Dickerson really whine that much when he was with
    the Rams?
    
    Knowing the talent he had, it must have eaten him up to play for such a
    bad football team as the Colts. The bad trades, bad drafts, Ron
    Meyer... so he decided to speak up. It sounds awful coming from a guy
    who makes so much but maybe there was a grain of truth in what he was
    trying to say.
    
    Admittedly, Dickerson lacks the class of an OJ Simpson who labored for
    years on a mostly cruddy football team while being quiet, but I think
    there is more to Dickerson than meets the eye.
    
    Rich
    

       Ron Meyer was Eric the Dead's college coach. They liked each
    other...until Meyer got tired of his act.
                                    Denny

    re .527
    
    Saw, your romantic view of the game is touching, but dated. It's no
    wonder that studies show that the lifespan of an NFL player maybe at
    least 5 years below the norm ...
    
    Doc

    re .538
    
    Well put. The Juice had class, and played in exactly ONE playoff game.
    One gets the feeling, he trade some of it for a chance to run on a
    consistent contender. Dickerson is no saint, but 1) you have to give
    him points for honesty - when the Colts traded Hinton and Rison for
    George, the Colts were assured of being a medicore team for at least 5
    more years, and 2) I can also understand wanting to win one before he
    has to hang 'em up.
    

Doc, you have a point, I won't deny that.   In the meantime however,
medicine and medical techniques have improved a lot more too.


I just don't like Dickerson's attitude.....


'Saw

    Well,  Going to the L.A. faiders ain't gonna get Dickerson the win
    He's looking for.  This is a has been team (The Raiders) and it's
    gonna take time to build them back into a winner...  Dickerson doesn't
    have that kinda time !!
    
    Big Game

    None of them play hurt anymore, unless they have gurenteed contracts.
    And Dickerson is one of 100% of the NFL Cry Babies that want gurenteed
    money and contracts and playing time, etc, etc, etc.  No big surprise
    here.  And if any of you out there really think that the NFL is a part
    time job your sadly mistaken.  The competition gets greater and greater
    every year and more talant is produced each year.  If you dont spend
    time in the gym and train year round you'll be out of a job.  Some
    people are lucky enough to have a metabolism that they can eat and do
    what ever they want and stay in shape but somehting tells me that to
    be a top notch Running Back in the NFL you have to do a little extra.
    
    You try running the 40 in 4.## seconds,  Most people in this notes file
    would more then likely have to jump off a 40 yrd cliff in order to
    cover that much distance in 4.## seconds :-)
    
    Does if have an Attitude problem, of course.  Do any of the big name
    players not... NOT. Some of them just let there agents do all there
    dirty work (talk).  Nice guys finish last.  And its all in prespective
    These guys do make too much money but remember they have a gift, and
    there using it.  As far as im concearned there's alot of people in dec
    that make more money then there worth, but Id take it if I could get it
    so OH WELL.  And you cant think of it as a game, its a business and a
    job........
    								MaB

    re .544
    
    Little Lame, the DOnks play a first place scheudle this year.
    
    They are toast.
    
    Hunter Tried Hard,
    
    Doc

    yea doc...  I can say 9-7...  That should be about where the Faiders 
    end up.  The Donks on the other hand should do well and will make the
    `offs with a first round bye...  
    
    Donks and Dallas in the SB
    
    Big Game

    This team of has beens seemed to fare pretty well against your Bronc's
    last year. The Raiders have added some solid young talent to an aging
    team. Anthony Smith and Nolan Harrison look to be good young players.
    Aarron Wallace will be given a chance to strut his stuff this year.
    I look forward all off-season to the Raider-Bronco match ups. I see KC
    andthe Raiders finishing ahead of Denver.
    
    Kenn

     Here's a look at the Raiders schedule for the year, as well as my 
    opinion on how they'll do:


TEAM:           Los Angeles Raiders
 
Date/Time       PST/PDT  TV     Opponent                Location
---------       -------  --     --------                --------
Sun  6 Sep 92    17:00  TNT     Denver Broncos          Denver, CO
Sun 13 Sep 92    10:00  NBC     Cincinnati Bengals      Cincinnati, OH
Sun 20 Sep 92    13:00  NBC     Cleveland Browns        Los Angeles, CA
Mon 28 Sep 92    18:00  ABC     Kansas City Chiefs      Kansas City, MO
Sun  4 Oct 92    13:00  CBS     New York Giants         Los Angeles, CA
Sun 11 Oct 92    13:00  NBC     Buffalo Bills           Los Angeles, CA
Sun 18 Oct 92    13:00  NBC     Seattle Seahawks        Seattle, WA
Sun 25 Oct 92    13:00  CBS     Dallas Cowboys          Los Angeles, CA
Sun  1 Nov 92                   BYE
Sun  8 Nov 92    10:00  NBC     Philadelphia Eagles     Philadelphia, PA
Sun 15 Nov 92    13:00  NBC     Seattle Seahawks        Los Angeles, CA
Sun 22 Nov 92    13:00  NBC     Denver Broncos          Los Angeles, CA
Sun 29 Nov 92    17:00  ESPN    San Diego Chargers      San Diego, CA
Sun  6 Dec 92    13:00  NBC     Kansas City Chiefs      Los Angeles, CA
Mon 14 Dec 92    18:00  ABC     Miami Dolphins          Miami, FL
Sun 20 Dec 92    13:00  NBC     San Diego Chargers      Los Angeles, CA
Sat 26 Dec 92    13:00  NBC     Washington Redskins     Washington, DC


       Looks like a pretty tough schedule, this plus the fact that they'll
    probably be starting Marinovich equals a 9-7 or 8-8 season, to me. I
    expect Marinovich will have some days where he looks like a rookie, and
    others where he'll be impressive. The running game should be in good to
    great condition with the addition of Dickerson. The defense will also
    be good to great, with just the right balance of vets (Howie, Golic,
    Townsend etc..) and youth (Davis, Smith, Harrison, and now McGlockton).
    The secondary is in great shape, and the LB's may get some needed help
    with the additions of Aundray Bruce, and Anthony Bell. (?) I'm looking
    forward to seeing Okoye meet his match when he runs into McGlockton. 
    
    Carlos
    
    

    Cake Schedule...  Except for the Donks that is.   ~/~
    
    BG

    Geez, Carlos, I was expectin' your prediction to be 16-0.
                                                       
    Joe

    Well they could go 16-0....Joe (hey that rhymes), I was talkin worst
    case in my previous scenario. Wait 'til I put in the best case, that
    oughtta make you guy's sik !
    
    Carlos
    

      Carlos talks a good game,  but he's not a certain Browns fan :-)
    
      The AFC west may end up more "equal" this year when it comes to
    W/L records.  The Chargers are on the verge.  Look for Seattle to be in
    the Cellar,  while the donks, chiefs and faids lead the pack with SD
    hangin' tough.   Of course this is based on talent, coaching and
    schedule!
    
    	Tj

    How many assisstant coaches does Denver have ?

    Not as many as Cleveland.

    Earlier this week, former Raider great LB Matt Millen announced his
    retirement from the Redskins. Millen spent most of his career with the
    silver and black, plus a year or two (?) with the niners, and then he
    finished off his career with the defending superbowl champs. Wherever
    he played, success followed him, and I'm sure he'll be in the HoF
    someday. I think Millen has two superbowl rings from his days with the
    Raiders, one with the Redskins, and I think maybe one with the Niners
    (?)....not too many can say that.
    
    Carlos
    
    

    Carlos,
    What criteria are you using to believe that Millen should be in the
    HoF?  He was over the hill basically with the Niners and Redskins, 
    and was utilized in specialty situations. He had some good years with
    the Raiders, maybe two great ones, but I don't consider him "great" or
    HoF material. He was good and productive, yes, but HoF? Not in my mind.
    
    MikeL
    

      Millen was one of those raiders you just love to hate (figuratively
    (sp?) speaking).
    
      Tim

    Mike,
    I could just as easily ask what criteria your using to exclude Millen
    from the HoF, but basically it's just our own humble opinions. You
    believe he's not HoF material, I believe he is.
    
    Carlos
    
    

      He's HoF if Uncle Al says so.

 I think the fact that Millen was able to make Joe Paterno pick up his whole
 team and move them to another field because Matt refused his order to get off
 the one they were playing on at the time, would qualify him as HOf material...

 ;^)

 

    
    The Raiders began training camp yesterday....it's almost football
    season again! :-)
    
    Carlos

    The Raiders signed Terence Flagler RB, and cut Michael Attardi K, last
    Friday(?). Seems to me I've heard of Flagler before, didn't he play for
    the 49'ers, and wasn't he half way decent for them??? Irregardless, I'm
    still wondering why they'd be interested in adding yet another running
    back. Isn't Marcus, Dickerson, Bell, Smith, McCallum, Mueller, etc...
    enough? I think they'd be better off going after some more LB's or
    OL's. 
    
    Carlos
    
    

    Maybe Al figures to turn him into a TE???
    
    
    HTH,
    
    Nelly

    
    Flagler was last with the Cards, and didn't get much action here, the
    last two years.  Can't figure why the Raiders would want him, unless
    they really like 49er reject rb's.
    
    Brews

    Nelly,
    
    I don't really think they'll be trying to make a TE out of him, cause
    they've already got two high quality TE's in Ethan Horton, and Andrew
    Glover. Horton of course, made the Pro-Bowl last year, and Glover, in
    his rookie season, showed a lot of promise should Horton go down.
    You're probably right though, in that they'll most likely be converting
    him to another position...maybe special teams I'm thinking.
    
    Speaking of special teams, lasted year the faids had one of the best if
    not THE best special teams unit in the league. Three of the Raiders
    eight pro-bowlers (T.Brown,J.Gossett, and J.Jaeger) made the trip to
    Hawaii, and another, (Elvis "Toast-no-mo" Patterson) should also have
    went. This unit should be even better this year, with the re-additions
    of R.Brown and S.Adams, two former Raiders that excelled in ST's.
    
    Also, caught a glimpse of the Raiders beating up on the 'pokes down in
    Tejas, this morning on ESPN's Sports Center. Steve Wisniewski was
    giving Russell Maryland some pointers on proper football etiquette, and
    Russ didn't take to kindly to it so the Wiz had to slap him  around      
    a little bit. You could also see Eric D. taking a snap in the short
    clip they showed, looks like he still has a good little burst in those
    engines, and he threw in a nice little cut move just for kicks.
    
    Carlos

    Is there any news on Terry McDaniel or Lionel Washington Signing?
    HOw about Marcus Allen??
    
    Kenn

    Tommorrow, during the Jets -vs- Eagles game, in Canton Ohio, Uncle Al
    will be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. 
    
    Carlos

      I hope he doesn't break down and cry!

    Only 12 fights between the Raiders and Cards in Flagstaff yesterday.
    
    Mike

    Re. -1  Ahhh, that's the kind of Raider reports I like to hear.
    
    Any reports on how McGlockton or Skrepenak are doing so far??
    
    Carlos
    

    Heard where Elvis Patterson and assistant coach Jack Stanton got into a
    real skirmish on Friday.  It started with a shouting match and ended
    with Patterson wrestling Stanton to the ground.
    
    Joe

    
    
                  Yes!!!! Raider Ball at it's finest. All I want for
    Christmas is Simms or Young....
    
    
    Chappy.

>              Yes!!!! Raider Ball at it's finest. All I want for
>    Christmas is Simms or Young....
    
      According to today's Glob, the raidahs are so thrilled with Patterson
    thet they've suspended him and are tring to trade him.
                                     Denny

    All he did was try to beat up on a coach, sheesh, that's no reason to
    get rid of the guy. Seriously though, trading him is not the answer,
    unless they feel that he's developed some kind of bad attitude or
    something, that might spread. 'Toast' had an all-pro year last year
    even if he wasn't selected to the Pro-bowl, and IMHO, they oughta try
    and work this out wif him. 
    
    Carlos

    Have
    
       the
    
       Raiders
    
       ever
    
       won
    
       an
    
       NFL
    
       championship?
    
    
       

    
    Why yes! How considerate of you to ask. As a MoF, in the last 11 years
    a grand total of 4 NFL teams have claimed the Lombardi, of which the
    Raiders claimed two, and were also the only AFC team to do so in that
    span.
    
    HtH...Carlos