Conference 7.286::sports_91

    The most important question facing college basketball today is the
    epistemological/theological question of whether or not Shack is God.
    
    Personally, the way I figure it Shack is some kind a demi-God or
    something, put on this earth with two missions in mind: 1) teach
    Dale Brown how to coach, and 2) prove to the masses put to sleep by
    the likes of Kareem and Patrick that a dominating center doesn't
    have to be a stupefying bore.
    
    If Shack is God (and he is) then Kenny is his apostle.
    
    MrT

    Does anybody know if Arizona won last night?
    
    
    - Ken -

    I saw some of the BYU game last night.  Only reason I kept an eye on it
    was to see the big guy, Shawn Bradley.  Looked like a stiff, even
    though the announcers kept singing his praises.  Set the all-time BYU
    shot block record with 83 I think, in only his 14th game.  After that,
    they noted that he set the Freshman block record as well.
    
    He rebounded most of the balls that passed directly over his head, but
    two feet to either side wasn't his.  Post up skills were very weak,
    called for the ball strictly on height, but never commanded it.  Bodied
    into a number of bad shots.  Lagged up court, Kareem_at_40-style.
    
    He's got a lot of learning to do, but he's purported to be 7'6", so
    undoubtedly the NBA is in his future.  If he spends two years away from
    the court getting cultism pounded into his head, he won't be as good as
    Manute, even though his instincts are far superior.
    
    Dan

>    undoubtedly the NBA is in his future.  If he spends two years away from
>    the court getting cultism pounded into his head, he won't be as good as
>    Manute, even though his instincts are far superior.

Dan,

Let's try leaving the religious pot shots out of here, OK? 

Metz

    
    re: bradley
    
    	I think this kid is still growing!!  If my memory serves me right,
    he was "only" 7'4'' in high school.  He is now 7'6'' and that would
    mean he is still growing.  
    
    	As Dan said, he's got a long way to go, but given that he will
    serve two years in the mission field (starting next year), it could
    be a blessing to his body.  Those two years might help his body adjust
    to such rapid growth and could make it fill out too.  
    
    	The main thing here is that if he does gain some weight and mature,
    he could be a real force in college and pro ball.  It'll be interesting
    to see if the two years off helps or hurts his game.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Our sentimental favorite Slippery Rock is currently ranked 6th in the
    latest Division 2 basketball poll.
    
    
    py

    Didn't UNLV also bite the big one last night???
    
    IMWTK,
    Kev
    

    I don't think UNLV played last night.  Monday night they struggled
    early against some West coast team but eventually won by about 30.
    They play at Utah State tonight.
    
    Joe

UNLV won by 30+ over San Jose State... Something like 95-62.

Kenny Anderson's Georgia Tech team got hammered by Duke last night, 98-57
at Duke.   Anderson had a lousy first half and I didn't bother to watch 
more than 5 minutes of the second half.   ESPN and Dick Vitale revved up the
hype machine for Kenny, at one point calling him "one of the greatest players
of all time" and "the best point guard ever if you exclude Magic Johnson".
PLEASE!!!  The kid's played about 40 college games, he is not exactly a
pure shooter {question: if he shoots 45% in college, what will he shoot in
the pros???}, and the fact that he is lefthanded certainly helps him out when
playing against average defensive players.    If he ends up being a better
pro than Isaiah Thomas, I will be very surprised.

    A lot of lefties make it work for them in the NBA a well, so I wouldn't
    be so quick to discount it due to average defense.
    
    ALso, the disappointment registered in your note doesn't exactly mesh
    with your prediction that he probably won't be better than Isiah. 
    That's a pretty lofty accomplishment which would make Anderson a hell
    of a commodity and a living.
    
    Still, I agree he's got a ways to go, that he isn't head and shoulders
    above his competition, and I'd like to see him stay at Tech for at
    least another year.
    
    Dan

>                     -< Anderson's skill set is 1st class >-

Agreed.   For ballhandling and passing, there are none better in college
today.  Rate him a 10.   How about shooting?   On driving, he's probably
a 10 again.   but the jump shot looks like a 5 to me.   How about straight
up defense?   Last night, in the half+ that I saw he was guarding Hurley
{who has very little skill on the offensive end beyond passing} mostly
and McAffrey {who is probably my favorite Duke player} who scored a career
high 29.   Neither of them has much size.    Can he guard the BIG guards in
the half court?   Don't know.   


>    A lot of lefties make it work for them in the NBA a well, so I wouldn't
>    be so quick to discount it due to average defense.

Actually, it was just a little sidenote to myself... I've always been amazed at
how a lefthander in basketball can become so much harder to guard.   

    
>    ALso, the disappointment registered in your note doesn't exactly mesh
>    with your prediction that he probably won't be better than Isiah. 
>    That's a pretty lofty accomplishment which would make Anderson a hell
>    of a commodity and a living.
    
I don't intend to downgrade him... it's just I watch the boxscores and I 
see a lot of 10-24, 9-21, 12-25 shooting nights and then I hear Vitale and
the other moron start saying "best of all time" and "best point guard ever"
and I say to myself, "Shouldn't he shoot better to be given that kind of
hype?   Shouldn't he be able to carry the team night-in and night-out?"
He's good.   He's probably great.  But "best ever?"    It's way too early.

If he's better than Isaiah, let's at least wait until he's proven it before
handing it to him.


>    above his competition, and I'd like to see him stay at Tech for at
>    least another year.

Me too.   It would be good for the college game and good for him, too.  
But at times last night, he wore the expression of a guy who was thinking
about playing with Michael Jordan, et al and not carrying the weight of
the ACC and GA Tech on his back. 

Never mind Anderson and his hype job what about Hurley's? Poor Booby he
has to guard Kenny on one end then distribute the ball on the other end boo hoo
They pointed out that he was like 93 assists to 59 TO, less than 2-1. 
When will somebody finally admit this kid stinks and is way over-rated?

Thank God Vitale doesn't do big east games. What an ass. Think ESPN would
can him if we write enough letters?

mike

Bobby Hurley! Duke's Jeff Lebo!

TTom

    
    
    	What makes or made Isaiah the best point guard ever, or for that
    matter, made or makes him the yardstick to measure all point guards.
    True, he had a good career at IU, but he only was there 2 years!
    I'm not saying that he can't be used to compare, but I don't think he
    is the only measuring stick for point guards.
    
    
    	On another note, I read were another long time NCAA record fell
    last weekend involving an old favorite of mine, the "pistol".  Seems
    someone from college "x" set the record for highest scorer in a Div. I
    game.  Pete held the old record at 69 and this kid broke it with 71 or
    72 I believe.  Of course, the 3 pointer had a lot to do with the new
    record and one can only wonder how many points Pete would of scored had
    the 3 pointer been in effect when he was at LSU!  He probably would of
    AVERAGED over 50 a game!!  Now that is an awesome stat to think about!
    
    
    						bill..g.
    

>Bobby Hurley! Duke's Jeff Lebo!

Lebo could shoot and didn't look like a weasel.   

    
    	What is Los Lebos' doing now?
    
    B.A.

Heh, heh, heh....

Well UCONN made mincemeat out of my alma mater last night!

Final score was UCONN 115, Central Ct State 46.


Central has been having major problems with their basketball program,
which was never very good as I remember, but this was ludicrous.
I suppose they just wanted to play a nationally ranked team 8^)

Must've been a helluva game to watch....

'Saw

 Anybody got a final on last night's Arizona game? USC had em at one point
 last I saw though it was Cats 49 USC 46.

 How about them Razorbacks can't wait for their showdown with UNLV. Early
 Febuary I think. Should be a good one. Ollie Miller will have to stay out
 of foul trouble though if they're to have a chance. That's the problem
 with Nolan's system of recruiting mostly 'tweeners'. Can't run without 
 the ball, need that big man to clean the glass. He's their only real
 physicial presences...

 mike

    Arizona won 87-85.
    
    I caught the tail end of this game, and it was an exciting finish. 
    USC tied it with about 30 seconds left with an NBA 3-pointer, then
    Arizona called a timeout.  The Cats turned the ball over on the
    inbound, but for some reason USC tried a quick 3-pointer with 20
    seconds left.  They missed the shot and fouled Arizona quickly, and
    Arizona made 1 of 2.  USC missed the next time down and Arizona got
    another free-throw to win by 2.
    
    Joe

I'm so amazed I'm practically constipated!

Two days ago, Snuffy ` They named a building after me.. they like me..
they really like me' Smif got his 700th win (I think that was the
Maryland game).

The amazement comes from the fact that I can't believe Soup hasn't
leaped in here to bring that to our collective attention.

Oh Well... That puts the Snuf at number three or four on the all time
winners list.

So... I'd like to offer HUGE Congrats (and I'm sure JoJ does, too) to
Coach Dean Smith. 700 wins (and in 30 years... it took rupp 33) is quite
an accomplishment.

Mike JN

What's Smith got, about 300 excellent_losses to go along with those 700 wins?

    He's only got, what, 185 more wins to get Rupp?
    
    Chip_RP_Bach (Rick Pitino -- Sorry George...)
    
    

    I watched the Arizona-UCLA game on Saturday afternoon.  It's great to
    see the PAC-10 come back to hoops respectability.  That was a super
    clash, but Arizona pulled it out on a Rooks jumper with 5 seconds left.
    
    Arizona's home winning streak survives.
    
    Mike

The Shack is on ESPN tonight at 9:30 against Alabama.

    I watched the LSU at Bama game last night.  How long has Alabama had
    the center circle painted plaid, obviously attributed to Wimp's tired
    fashion?
    
    Other than this and UNLV kind of taking on a shark as their second
    mascot, are ther any other colleges out there that have incorporated a
    coaches "trademark" into their scheme?
    
    	--dan'l

    RE Bama's plaid center circle
    
    I read about that a few days ago, and it said they just started it this
    season.  Didn't really mix well that parque floor, did it?
    
    Joe

    > Other than this and UNLV kind of taking on a shark as their second
    > mascot, are there any other colleges out there that have incorporated
    > a coaches "trademark" into their scheme?
    
    Dunno, but I can think of a program that named their basketball arena
    after their present coach.  If you need details let me know!
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Who won the National NCAA make-believe tournament?

    REK

    >Who won the National NCAA make-believe tournament?
    
    Florida beat Washington, if I recall.
    
    Dan

    Can't believe no one has mentioned those amazing numbers posted by
    Shaquille against Florida on Saturday: 31 points, 21 rebounds, 10
    blocks.  
    
    Joe

    re-1,
    
    	What about his numbers when they lost last week?
    
    B.A.

Paul Westhead has filed a $1M defamation lawsuit against Hank Gathers' family
lawyer for remarks the lawyer made to the press including "But for the actions
of Paul Westhead in the week before Hank Gathers' death, Hank would be alive
today."

    Hank's lawyer must read SPORTS.  Seems to me I made almost the exact
    same comment in here awhile back.
    
    (Maybe I should sue?!)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Just wondering - doesn't the current sophomore class have the potential to be
one of the best {NBA potential-wise} in a long, long time?


                                                     1991 NBA Play-alike
	          Shaquille O'Neal                   Patrick Ewing
		  George Lynch                       Xavier McDaniel
		  Calbert Cheaney                    Bernard King
		  Kenny Anderson                     Isaiah Thomas
		  Jimmy Jackson                      Joe Dumars

	The ALL-NBA team of 1996?

Oh yeah, I left one off:

	
		Bobby Hurley			Danny Ainge

    I thought the WAC had it bad when they need to move their games to 10pm
    in the Mountain time zone in order to get some national exposure, but
    then I saw where UMASS is playing a game this Saturday starting at
    midnight local time!  The power of TV reigns on...
    
    Joe

    I'll be taping it because there's no way I'll be able to stay up that
    late.
    
    I heard the reason for the game being at that hour last night.  Part of
    the NCAA contract with TV requires every team that was in the previous
    year's NCAA tournament to be shown on National TV at least once. 
    That's BU.  I really cain't see ESPN wasting a prime-time slot on BU
    when they cain show yet another Big East, ACC, Big 10, Big 8, SEC, SWC, 
    Metro or Pac10 team for the millionth or so time.  So, they pair a
    relatively unknown BU (which half the country thinks is where Doug
    Flutie went to school, because half the time an announcer from another
    part of the country refers to either BC or BU as "Boston") which is
    6-12 or so as well, with an up and coming UMass team.
    
    What makes it worse for UMass is that we have a home game against Rhode
    Island tonight and then have to come back at midnight tomorrow to play
    BU.  It's nice to get the exposure, but I'm wondering if the midnight
    game will be worth it.  The gym and the campus will be rocking and the
    game is being promoted as "Saturday Night Live at UMass" or something
    like that (even though the game is Sunday).
    
    John

re: .38

Doug Ross moves from the wastelands of NE to the heartland of college
hoops, and now's he's got his own "Play-alike" team. Next, we'll be
hearing bad Dick Vitale impressions.

One thing Doug: when ya gonna start rootin for them 'Cocks?

TTom

>One thing Doug: when ya gonna start rootin for them 'Cocks?

I been rootin' but I ain't got nothing to show for it.

    
>>One thing Doug: when ya gonna start rootin for them 'Cocks?

>I been rootin' but I ain't got nothing to show for it.
    
    
    Nah....I ain't touchin' this.  It's too easy.
    

>    Nah....I ain't touchin' this.  It's too easy.
    
Geez, here I toss up a hanging curve ball right down the middle of the
plate, and you walk back to the dugout!

    re .39
    
    I don't care if you did put a smiley on - Ainge deserves an apology !
    
    :-)

    re .45
    
    I'm with you ! That's too damned easy ! :-)

    Does anyone know if the showdown is this weekend, or when it is?
    
    -Dave-

    
    Its this weekend, Sunday I think...

    Sunday.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 game should be a PICK EM. Hogs have the homecourt, Vegas the better
 starting 5. Chris says Vegas, I guess that leaves me the Hogs...

 ;^)

 mike

 Geez how could I forget the first game last night??? KSU blew out Okie
 at home by twenty. 95-75 I think ws the final. It was great watching
 Tubbsy's team get beat up. Billy is definately not a gracious looser.
 Mo Brittian must have had T drooling at the prospect of him in the middle
 instead of Novar/Lawson.

 mike

    LSU ended up mauling the Cats by 19.  The Shack had 33 big ones,
    plus 16 boards.  Completely uncontrollable.
    
    BTW, don't be fooled by Rick Pitino's masterful media manipulation. 
    Kentucky is *loaded* with players, and they're only gonna get better.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 While they maybe loaded the Cats are much like the Hooisers in that they
 don't have that widebody stud. Not that I think a widebody Stud would have
 any luck stopping Shack.

 I liked his dad's BS excuse that he's going pro cause he's getting fouled
 to much in college. Hahahaa like Cartwright or Akeem etc are going to step
 a side and say here's the lane Shack...

 too funny...

 mike 
    

The Shack is Back!

GREAT GAME.

Anybody got a start time [Eastern?] and the LINE for the UNLV - Ark game
Sunday?

Mike JN

 Game time is 12:00 sunday. Don't have a line but I'm sure TTom will have
 it for us soon...

    Did I hear correctly this morning - Bob Knight was elected into the
    Basketball Hall of Fame?

    Yup.  Dave Cowens, Tiny Archibald, Bob Knight, Larry O'Brien, Larry
    Fleisher and Harry Gallatin.
    
    John

    	What a shame to lump those great basketball names with the sullied
    one of Knight.
    
    				/Don

    In addition to UNLV's whipping of Arkansas this Sunday, there's a
    couple of other good games.  LSU is at Duke at 2:30 EST and Arizona
    plays at UCLA at 4:00 EST.
    
    And despite a 9-13 record, ND gets another national appearance this
    Saturday.  I wouldn't be surprised if they get an NCAA bid.  :^)
    
    Joe

    re .63:
    
    Who are Larry Fleisher and Harry Gallatin?
    
    
    py

Bob Knight:  A Step Closer to the Pantheon

>>    Who are Larry Fleisher and Harry Gallatin?

Harry Gallatin was a Knick's center.  Larry Fleischer founded the player's
association.

    
    
    	I have no problem with inducting Knight, but I'm curious as to why
    induct someone while they are still active?  Unless I missed something,
    Knight is to be inducted as a coach and not a player.  Why not wait 
    until he is done coaching instead of inducting him in mid-stream?
    
    	Does anyone have the reasoning behind this?  I know that Wooden was
    also inducted as a coach while he was still coaching, but why don't 
    coaches have to wait?
    
    							bill..g.
    

    I spent the weekend in Winston-Salem with a friend.  Besides good
    company, I got to see the Arkansas UNLV game which was pre-empted in
    the Charlotte area for some meaningless ACC game.  The Razorpigs had
    UNLV for a while, but the Rebels great defense finally broke them.  Can
    anyone beat this team?
    
    Maybe Duke could if they play the way they played against LSU later
    that day.  Dale Brown said it was the best prepared team he had EVER
    faced.  That's a mighty big compliment.
    
    And another great thing about Winston-Salem is that they carry hockey
    on TV!  I got to see some of the Caps/Flyers game.  Missed the big
    brawl though.
    
    	--dan'l

    > but to be taken to school by Christian Laettner?
    
    Christian Laettner ain't no slouch.  He'll be in the NBA for alot of
    years ...  Plus Duke plays terrific team defense - one of the best in
    the country.  Very, very difficult for one player to dominate them.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    	Yeah Hawk, plus the word "champeenship" wasn't associated with
    yesterday's game in any way, shape or form.  Otherwise Duke would've
    been takin' the gaspipe.
    
    				/Don

    I wonder if Arkansas and their fans enjoyed their class in top-ranked
    basketball.  :^)
    
    Actually, I thought UNLV played a subpar first half, doing a poor job
    on the defensive boards and not shooting well from 3-point land.  It
    looked like UNLV's defense was kind of soft in the 1st half, but maybe
    that's due in part to their wide-open style of play.  The Rebs did play
    some zone in the first half.  Arkansas also was hitting their 3's in the 
    1st half, another reason it was close for as long as it was.
    
    I don't know if UNLV has any tough non-conference games left, but as
    was mentioned yesterday they play what will probably be their toughest
    conference game at NMSU 2 weeks from tonight.  My guess is that game
    will be the 3rd part of ESPN's Big Monday.
    
    Joe
    
    

    I got a kick out of Gregg Bumble and the dude doing color.  They were
    commenting on how the Duke crowd had a lot to do with taking O'Neal out
    of his game (chanting things like "CBA. CBA. CBA." and "1-2-3-4 Shack
    can't play this game no more").  The color man said that O'Neal better
    learn to handle this kind of crowd now because it's like that all the
    time in the pros.
    
    Huh?  Maybe Boston, LA, Charlotte, Detroit, and Chicago might just
    APPROACH the kind of noise and intelligence of the Cameron Crazies.
    
    	--dan'l

 Great display by UNLV. They were as I feared just too big for 'Backs. I
 think we ought to petition the NCAA's and the NBA to have a pay ver view
 game for the HOMELESS (not the dam war) pitting UNLV against a pro-team
 in the lower echelon. I'd pay to see it....

 It'll be interesting to see who they put in the same bracket as UNLV. Got
 to figure they load their bracket with teams that have height or a deliberate
 style cause that's about the only way they'll loose...

 mike

 Not Boston dan-l. the folks there generally sit on their hands unless Bird
 breathes. Anyways I didn't get to see alot of the game but didn't Shack foul
 out? Duke's a good team but boy they sure do get more than their share of the
 calls.

 I also heard that Macafferty is going to sue Dicky Vitale for pushing Hurley
 so much when it's painfully obvious that Bill is head and shoulders above 
 Boobsy....
 
 ;^)

 mike 

    
    
    So does this mean OSU will move up to #2 and Arkansas drop?  I can't
    see them dropping more than 2 or 3 spots at the most.
    

    
    RE: polls
    I heard the new AP poll this morning on the way to work and OSU is #2
    and Arkansas only dropped to third.  Also, ETSU has moved up to the #10
    spot (or were they already ranked that high?).
    
>    The color man said that O'Neal better
>    learn to handle this kind of crowd now because it's like that all the
>    time in the pros.
    
    This is one of the reasons I enjoy watching college ball much more than
    the NBA.  Duke's crowd is undoubtedly one of the roudiest, and on those
    Big 10 games on Monday nights it seems like the crowds are noisy
    throughout the whole game.  And although the talent level isn't up
    there with the NBA's, the college players play with much more intensity
    on a night-in and night-out basis.  Similar argument to the one we had
    going in last year's notes file about college football vs. the NFL.
    
    Joe

    UNH ended its 32-game home losing streak last night with a 72-56 win
    over Holy Cross.
    
    John

    Arkansas/UNLV,
    
    We'll see these two play in the Title game I hope. It was a good
    barometer for the Hogs, and the guy who impressed me most was the UNLV
    center (Ackles ?). He went up from about 10 feet away a couple of
    times, and just slammed over Oliver Miller. Not to mention the
    defensive job he did on Miller. 
    
    If Ark. plays UNLV again, Miller is the key. He HAS to dominate enough
    inside so that the Rebs are forced to double-team, which might take
    some of the sting out of their incredible defense.
    
    Talent-wise, this is the best team I've seen since the 83-85 Houston
    Cougars.
    
    And they are MUCH better coached.
    
    Doc

    
    OSU won again last night v.s. Michigan.  OSU hasn't looked awesome over
    the past couple of games, but they get the job done.
    
    Final Four:  OSU, Arkansas, UNLV, ???? (Coppin State?)

    
    Paul, but of course it's gonna be OSU, Arkansas, UNLV and *Cincinnati*.
    
    Bring back the 60's
    
    /Jeff  

	Can anyone tell me which conference champions have automatic bids
	and which have to enter a playoff with another conference champion
	to make the NCAAs ?  How does the NCAA determine which conference
        champion plays which in these pre-NCAA tournament playoffs ?  Does
	the Patriot conference even qualify for one of the playoff spots ?
	Fordham has a pretty good record, but may not be considered for an
	at-large spot.

>	Can anyone tell me which conference champions have automatic bids
>	and which have to enter a playoff with another conference champion
>	to make the NCAAs ?  How does the NCAA determine which conference
>        champion plays which in these pre-NCAA tournament playoffs ?  
    
    This is a good question, and I was wondering the same thing.  I believe
    the bottom line is that some conferences whose champion automatically
    went to the tourney in years past will now have to play it out with 1
    or more other conferences to determine who goes.  Hope one of you guys
    out there can answer this one.
    
    Joe
    

    Interesting footage last Sunday on CBS Sunday Morning with Charles
    Kuralt.  They did a piece on Tark and the UNLV Runnin' Rebels that
    centered on the glitz and controversy surrounding the program, without
    really being too critical from a scandal commentary standpoint.
    
    They didn't have to be.  Not once, not twice, but three times they
    showed footage of the "players parking lot."  Larry in his Corvette.
    Stacey in his BMW M3.  Another Rebel in his Cadillac Allante.  Then 
    back to the reporter, smirking, but not drawing conclusions or making
    charges.  Similarly treated was the fact that one Rebel somehow has
    gotten into the sporting goods business.  
    
    All of a sudden I understood why the NCAA's alleged "witch hunt" 
    against Tark and UNLV.  Unless you can believe it's possible for barely
    educated 20 year olds from impoverished backgrounds with no jobs to 
    afford $50,000 sports cars or capitalize $1,000,000 sporting goods
    businesses, then it's necessary to figure that Tarkanian's running a
    "Mafia's Team" version of that old crook John Wooden's Sam Gilbert scam.
    
    I hope UNLV gets the death penalty.
    
    Big10 Tom

    Well gosh, golly, gee.  Imagine the same network that's covering the
    NCAA Tournament, the same network that just shelled out 1 *BILLION*
    bucks to seize monopoloy control over the event, ... the same network
    that probably had a good deal to do with UNLV getting off the hook ...
    
    imagine that network going easy on the Vegas program during a_in-depth
    analysis of the program.
    
    Sheesh, I'm shocked!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    In defense of Larry Johnson, he did make the Dean's list last
    semester.   
    
    Personally, I don't care how much money the guys get under the table...
    I don't care how much "illegal" recruiting goes on.   By having such
    strict and ludicrous rules, the NCAA has created the monster.   I say
    the only rules should be:
    
    	a) a coach can only have X players under scholarship
        b) a player must meet the school's academic requirements to remain
    	   eligible   
	c) any student not eligible academically cannot be replaced until 
    	   his four years are up
    
    

    Doug Ross, as is your habit you miss the point: Tark and his mafia
    money is WRONG cuz it's a huge competitive advantage.  I cain think
    a a certain coach in Indiana who bid $0.00 for Shawn Kemp's services
    and now here he his with a centerless squad.  Would that have a_affect
    against tip-top All-Pro collegiate competition?  
    
    ACCrisp, you hit the nail on the haid.  I gotta buddy who's in the
    television business and the scuttlebut there is that CBS purty much
    dictated to the NCAA that UNLV would play in the tournament.  Question
    is, how much of a retainer did Augmon and Larry get for staying on the
    extra year?  The rah-rah "win one for the Tark" story laid down by the
    media when they announced they weren't going hardship ranks among the
    geekiest of comedy ever in the sports.world (granted, Sugar Rim's (tm)
    hallway interview in the fedora and trnech coat with the shades and
    the bulbous bleeding lip tops the geek-o-meter list, but the "win one
    for the Tark" stories were close).
    
    How much?  $250,000 apiece, maybe?  To be truthful, I didn't even watch
    the UNLV vs. Duke Title game last year.  I couldn't.  Here you had the
    classic match up from the hell-in-a-handbasket standpoint.  A truly
    amatuer team comprised on honest-to-God scholar-athletes going up against
    a cast of...
    
    It's time for the feds to move in and shut the operation down.  But then,
    they cain't, cuz the (pseudo)conservatives running our gubmit rely on the
    networks to run *their* scam every bit as much as the NCAA.
    
    UNLV represents the lowest point in collegiate history.  I wish them the
    worst, and hope against hope that they eventually have their 1990 Title
    stripped (a possibility), lose this time around, and get the death penalty. 
    
    Tark is a creep.  Funny, but the more the moralizing about "stay in school"
    and "let's make our nation competitive" and "education presidents" the 
    more brazen the networks and crooked operations like Tark's have become.
    
    Big10 Tom

    Pay 'em over the table and get it over with.  It's like illegal drugs. 
    As long as their illegal, the blackmarket is alive and well, and all
    the scum who act as middlemen make the bucks.  If college athletes in
    revenue-generating sports were paid a livable wage or more, I think
    abuse would be about a tenth of what it is.  Probably less, once the
    pros kicked in discipline as an incentive.  
    
    But I can't see MrT's point about Johnson and Augmon on retainer.  If
    they're in it for the bucks, it'll come with a lot more zeroes on the
    check in the pros.  I give 'em more credit for why they stayed.  And
    while I yearn for a fancy car (as long as I don't have to pay the
    insurance), it is more than conceivable that a sure-fire multi-million
    dollar contract down the road could be ample persuasion to legal means
    for securing that kind of investment.  Now, if a scrub with no
    pro-potential shows up in a Lamborginni, and it isn't repo-ed in two
    months, then you've got reasonable cause.
    
    Dan

    
    Not that I don't agree with the preceding completely, but just as a
    point of fact Sports Illustrated did mention that they gave those 
    clothes to Johnson and Augmon for the photo shoot, and Rebel guard and
    very bright poli-sci major Greg Anthony (do I have the right guy?)
    gave up his scholarship per NCAA rules to start and run the business I 
    believe T was referring to.  Maybe you presume too much about poor
    inner-city kids, T? 
    
    Because sleazeball Tark's involved and it appears as if he might have 
    just sold his soul for one last year before skipping town, I have
    little doubt that UNLV's gonna get creamed and deservedly so, but I do
    find it amusing that T's looking after Mssrs. Johnson and Augmon's taste
    in automobiles after he went to such great lengths to point out that 
    improperly-processed car loans were really not such a big deal at all...
    
    glenn
                                              

    BTW, another brawl has taken place smack-dab in the heart of Big 10
    country.  I can only conclude that the brawl a few months ago was swept
    under the rug by lax standards observed in Big 10 country; thus the
    incident repeated itself with different principles.
    
    Joining the donny-brook this time were Illinois State and Chicago
    State, who duked it out just before the first half ended.  SOmething
    like 13 players were ejected and fortunately only one serious injury
    occured - one of the coaches suffered a broken nose.  The game had to
    be forfeited, as one of the teams only had two players left after
    ejections, so the final was 2-zip.
    
    Dan

 Yeah Greg it is Anthony who has renounced his scholarship to pursuit his
 business interests. If I'm not mistaken he got started in a real estate 
 firm amde a few deals and just has invested properly. Maybe he co-signed
 Larry's and Stacy's loans for the autos...

 I agree with Doug and lets face it UNLV isn't alone here. If you're going to
 run Tark out of the game then how about Hitsome, Baywhine, Stomper and every
 other coach who's program is suspect.........

  mike

    re: Riots
    
    Last time I looked the Little League coach in Illinois was being
    prosecuted to the fullest extent, unlike the basketball riot involving
    hundreds of people and dozens of injuries that resulted in nothing.
    
    >Anthony who has renounced his scholarship
    
    In other words, he went pro.  A booster set him up with a no-brainer
    real estate deal to capitalize him and then put him into a sweetheart
    deal on the sporting goods biz, no doubt with an experienced retail
    guy (retail is the most brutal biz in the world, it's nearly impossible
    to get credit from suppliers unless you have a proven track record by 
    way of working your way up) who really runs the operation.  
    
    Unless you believe that this ultimate Runnin' Rabble genius, who's 
    stunned the populace with his ability to carry a B average in that well
    known tough major called sociology, is *so* smart that he has the Midas
    touch on real estate deals and the ultra-risky retail biz.  Funny, 
    usually athletes go into businesses cuz of their capital and use biz
    types to run them.  With Anthony it's the reverse.  Coincidental that 
    he's also a star player on the sleaziest program in NCAA history?  Or
    that he's on a team who magically decided to not go hardship and also
    miraculously comes up with Allantes, M3s, and Corvettes?
    
    I dream that the IRS would move in and investigate these guys for tax
    evasion.  The way the IRS fellows work is they turn on the videotape
    machine and axe you to explain your income source.  If you lie you do
    hard time in the big house on felony counts (plus fines).  If they put
    these three sleazebag crook-players on tape Tark's coaching genius, and
    program, would disappear in fifteen minutes.
    
    Big10 Tom  

 Geez Tom, you are the ultimate cynic. While you scenario maybe indeed true
 isn't also entirely possible that Anthony just might be a bit more gifted
 at business than you give him credit for? While he has certainly siezed
 upon his opportunity in the spotlight to make a buck, he just maybe could
 have thought of it on his own as I believe all human beings are born with
 brains.

 mike

    How many 20 year olds end up brokering big real estate deals, or being
    offered partnerships and financing for ambitious retailing ventures?
    
    The NCAA is forced to proscribe such things cuz it affords competitive
    advantage in addition to besmirching academic ideals.  But Tark has two
    special advantages: 1) UNLV and academic ethos in the same sentence?
    2) Anthony was able to subvert the NCAA's principle point of control
    (the scholarship) cuz there's so much mafia money floating around the
    town.
    
    So UNLV's ability to flout the rules has opened Pandora's Box.  Here's
    a possibility: Indiana's top recruit next year is Alan Henderson, who
    did 1300+ on his SAT and is a Nat'l Honor Society scholar at Indiana's
    top prep school.  If a_overhyped sociology major is able to miraculously
    alight in the middle of happening deals in industries in which he has
    no background, then a Henderson should be able to form, say, a construction
    company and win a bid to construct a strip mall and make a few million
    dollars profit while at IU cuz his DNA flag for "contractor aptitutde"
    happens to be set to "on."
    
    Yeah, right.
    
    Big10 Tom
    
    

There are a couple of problems with this business deal.

The first is the loophole to NCAA control that would allow someone who is
finacially set - one way or the other - to refuse a scholarship so that
they're not constrained by scholarship rules. The bad part of this is
would come in how the person became financially set.

The second is a flip side. Any other student may enter into a legitimate
business while still an underclassman. Using the guideline that
student-athletes should be subjected to the same rules and privileges as
other students, then why shouldn't these athletes be allowed to have
their own business. Again, the danger is how they acquire the business.

I guess the NCAA could require that athletes in the big 2 sports -
football and basketball - to be on scholarship so that it could be
regulated.

TTom

    What about Bill Lambeer? He's probably the only NBA player whose daddy
    makes more money than HE does. When Lambeer was in college, daddy and 
    some of his rich pals could have given young Billy Boy a nice toy to 
    play with and see if he could make it work. Just suppose he DID make a
    few thousand out of a deal, and if he's being hassled by the NCAA, just
    say screw it, here's $15,000, I'll pay my OWN tuition.
    
    It IS theorhetically possible....
    
    Tom 

    I think if an athlete has the brains and ability to make a business
    work while he's in school then hey, why not?  That's one of the things
    college is supposed to be for.
    
    The problem with sports is that some corrupt booster will set one of
    these kids up in business.
    
    You can't require a kid to be on scholarship.  What about the kid who
    walks on without one?
    
    John

    I you can run a successful business, keep up your grades AND play
    varsity athletics with the big boys, I sure as heck won't criticize ya. 
    Think about running for Congress if the pro ball contracts don't
    come; there are a few elected officials who could use that kind of work
    ethic.
    
    You can regulate this thing six ways from Sunday and it's not going to
    make the game clean.  Trying to regulate the six kids in the NCAA who
    aren't on scholarship at division I schools for whatever reason isn't
    worth the effort.  Better to work on making scholarships mean getting a
    real education.
    
    Dave W.

Shaquille O'Neal scored 36 with 19 rebounds and 7 blocks against Alabama 
yesterday.   I saw a brief bit in SI a couple weeks ago that gave the first
impression that O'Neal might turn pro after this year, apparently due to 
amount of physical play that refs have been allowing this year... Shaq's
father was quoted in effect "If he's going to get beat on, he might as well
get paid for it."

    Tark is garnering a HUGE competitive advantage from the fack that his
    squad's stars are making more than most Fortune 500 executives right
    now.  Augmon and Johnson's announcement that they were returning had
    cold hard cash written all over it.  Anthony's putative business
    "success" stinks of UCLA/Sam Gilbert-style crookedness.  After having
    seen the $50,000 cars and the other riches enjoyed by this All-Pro
    team, the question isn't whether they deserve the dough, the question
    is whether they should be allowed to take ill-gotten competitive
    advantage from it.
    
    The NCAA should bust UNLV now.  Nothing to do with morals, only to do
    with maintaining the quality of their product.
    
    MrT 

    Any evidence, MrT, or are you just getting hyperactive because Tark
    is poised to enter hte pantheon for two in a row?
    
    Dan

    
    
    	When I lived in Columbus Ohio and frequented the Ohio St. campus,
    it was not unusual to see the stars tooling around in fancy cars...
    I was told they were "loaners" from local dealers.  So, I would
    suspect that UNLV is not the only school where the star athletes get
    "things".  If UNLV is busted, then every other school that deals with
    this stuff should be busted too.
    
    	It's just one of those things where most all of the schools are
    doing it in some form or another.  Either cut out all the extra stuff,
    or let it ride and let them get paid while at school.
    
    	What I don't like is fingerpointing or the old pot calling the
    kettle black.  UNLV is only the tip of the iceberg.
    
    
    							bill..g.
    

The way I heard about the Cars, Suits and things... UNLV has a Slot machine 
in Tarks Office, every fifth year senior get's ta use the slot machine. 
wif there own hard earned money. After all these guys are over 21.
This machine has produced a winner almost every time. The students are amazed 
by the payoff's that this machine produces. Perfectly leagal in the State of
Nevada. 


Jeff

USA Today has their opinion of who's in the NCAAs and who might also make 
it.

Locks (22)

	Arizona, Arkansas, Duke, East Tennessee St, Indiana, Kansas,
	LSU, Mississippi St, Nebraska, UNLV, New Mexico St, No Carolina,
	Oklahoma St, Pittsburgh, Princeton, Seton Hall, Southern Miss,
	St. John's, Syracuse, Utah, Virginia.

Almost there (11)

	Alabama, Cincinnati, Connecticut, DePaul, Georgetown, Michigan St,
	NC State, Northern Illinois, Texas, UCLA, Wake Forest.

On the Bubble (6,7 or 8)

	Ga Tech, Houston or TCU (maybe both), Iowa, Temple, Vanderbilt,
	Villanova or Providence (maybe both).

TTom

    
    re: .108
    
    OSU is Ohio State, not Oklahoma State!  Ranked #2 in the country and on
    the way to the big ten titles, puts them as a lock in my mind.
    

Actually, they had both Ohio St and Oklahoma St. I left Ohio St off that
list.

BTW, speaking of Oklahoma St, Eddie Sutton has to be given some
consideration for Coach of the Year (all of his Kentucky problems,
notwithstanding). If Oklahoma St makes it to the NCAAs, Sutton would be
the first coach to take 4 teams to the tourney.

TTom

    What about USC? Will they get to the final tournament?
    Can anyone put the different standings in ?
    
    Patrick

As of yesterday, the teams that may make it from the PAC were

	Stanford (14-10), Arizona St (14-8), Southern Cal (14-8),
	Oregon St (13-9), Oregon (12-10), and Washington St (15-8).

USA suggested that 1 for sure and maybe 2 would get in from these, with
the edge going to Stanford because of power rating and to Arizona St and
Southern Cal because of remainng schedule (four home games).

TTom

    > What about USC?
    
    You sure he's talking Southern Cal here and not South Carolina?  Last I
    checked the 'Cocks were on the bubble ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    No Chris,I was defenit talking about Southern California!
    Another clarification,what does NCAA division 1 teams mean?
    Thanks
    
    Patrick

South Carolina (19-8) is listed as on the buble with Florida St (13-10),
with a prediction that one will go to the NCAAs and the other to the NIT.
If that's the case, you'd have to give the nod to the 'Cocks if for no
other reason than they beat the Tar Heels.

TTom

    I am travelling up to Amherst tonight to see the Temple Owls visit
    UMass in the final home hoops game this season.
    
    2 memorable non-winning streaks ended this season - we'd never beaten
    Delaware in football and Virginia had never beaten Clemson in football. 
    Well, we've never beaten Temple in hoops.  I'm really hoping this will
    be the night to end another one.  It won't be easy, especially since
    Temple is coming off a tough, 1-point, last second loss at home to
    Rhode Island.
    
    I'm sure the students will be pumped up tonight both because of that
    and also because they absolutely hate John Chaney.  He's had a couple
    of run-ins with UMass coach John Calipari recently.  
    
    While I'm getting more and more tired of and bored with college
    basketball, I'm really looking forward to tonight.  I've never seen
    Mark Macon and am sure the Curry Hicks Cage (yes, that's the name of
    the arena on campus) will be really rocking.
    
    Curry Hicks is a former coach at UMass.  The Cage was built in 1931 and
    renovated in the early eighties.  Basketball arenas were once called
    cages in recognition of the fact that basketball courts were enclosed
    in cages (kind of like some wrestling matches).  Prior to the
    renovation, the Cage had a dirt floor, an old wooden track, a portable
    court that was laid down over the dirt and old wooden bleachers.  It
    was also dark and dingy.  Now, it has an artificial surface, new
    bleachers, new lighting, new locker rooms and a new court.  One thing
    hasn't changed - the seating is just like that at Duke's Cameron Indoor
    Stadium, where the students wait in line to get in and sit in the seats
    closest to the court.  The loudest and most ornery ones always sit
    behind the visting team bench and I hope they're especially loud and
    nasty tonight.  (in the distant past the Cage had a glass roof with
    netting hanging from it to prevent baseballs from indoor baseball
    practice from hitting it).
    
    Should be fun.
    
    John
    
    PS - Temple at West Virginia is on ESPN Saturday at 2PM

I've been to the cage ONCE.  It was a winter afternoon back in 84 or
85, to see UMASS play someone.  (John, I'm friends with the woman who
used to coach the womens team there....)

Anyway, the one word to describe the place is CHARACTER.  I almost
felt as if I was stepping into the world of Hoosiers.....

A guy I used to work with attended when Doctor J played, and the stories
he'd tell of the lines outside the Cage are legendary.....

'Saw

    Which coach was that?
    
    I unfortunately missed the Doctor J era but Nazz was there when the
    Doctor was and he attended games there regularly.  When Erving was a
    freshman, the place used to be packed for the freshman games and half
    the place would leave after the freshman games and skip the varsity
    games.
    
    It will truly be the end of an era when the Cage is replaced by the new
    arena.  Unlike the new arenas, the Cage is the sort of place where
    on-campus college games *SHOULD* be played.
    
    John

Do they still have plans for a new arena even with the state of the economy in 
Mass? Where is the money coming from? I hope it's not out of student fees.

The only thing I've heard about it is some plan from an engineer to make the 
whole thing solar powered.

The cage...I loved going to see hoop games there...what atmosphere...

Go Minutemen...break that Temple streak...


Metz

    
    
    Cincinnati made a major stride last night towards making the tourney
    with a win over 20-4 Southern Miss.  UofC is now 16-8.

    Metz, the money for the new arena was appropriated two years ago when
    the state was still flush.  It was put in a separate capital account,
    the money cannot be touched and cannot be used for any other purpose. 
    In other words, money to build it is not coming out of the current
    university operating budget.  In fact, money to build any buildings on
    campus doesn't come out of the university's budget but the students
    don't know that which is why construction sites are being picketed. 
    There is going to be an increase in student fees to pay for the new
    arena but it's negligible in comparison to what's going to happen to
    tuition.
    
    Ground has been broken for the new arena and it is under construction
    now.  Anticipated completion is in Fall of 1992, sooner than the new
    Boston Garden.  It's a building that is badly needed on our campus. 
    The building is being built on the site of the barns belonging to the
    agricultural school.  (slight digression - the manure pits for the ag
    school were behind the right field fence of the baseball field.  The
    odor would never waft over the field unless we had an east wind, which
    didn't happen very much.  A friend of mine went to Harvard in the early
    eighties and played baseball there and his junior year, Harvard played
    a game at UMass.  I asked him how he liked it and he said "except for
    the smell of the horsesh*t, everything was fine, the wind was blowing
    in from right field."  I told him "you folks who go to school in the
    city just don't appreciate good country odors and besides, a university
    cain't call itself a real university unless it has an ag school and I
    haven't seen very many barns at Harvard lately.")
    
    The Cage isn't being torn down as part of this but it will continue to
    be used as a field house.
    
    John
    
    PS - 'Saw, Mary Ann Ozdarski was the women's coach during my last
    couple of years there and I knew her fairly well.

    Sorry you won't be seeing Mark Macon play tonight John.  Sprained
    ankle, out 7-10 days at least!  Temple isn't deep, so his loss will 
    really hurt them.  I wish this game was on TV!!!
    
    Yeah, 'Saw, I'm an old dude.  I was a sophomore when Julius was a
    freshman.  And it's true, some people did leave after the freshmen
    game, but the varsity was decent (18-8 I think).  Julius was in
    hotel and restaurant administration (he left with a 2.6 cum), and
    so was my roommate.  They used to study together in my room!
    
    For the UMass-BC game his junior year, the line started forming at 
    2:30 for an 8:00 game!!!  I know, 'cuz I got there at 2:45 and was
    about 20th in line.  By 4:30 they had to let us in, the line was
    turning into a mob.  By 5:45 they closed the doors and wouldn't let
    anyone else in.  The Cage was a madhouse.  UMass pounded BC, and all
    was well with the world.
    
    NAZZ

    
    
Why I'm tired of college basketball:

1.  Part of it is a prejudice against basketball in general.  I loved hoops when
I was younger but now, I'd rather watch either football or hockey.

2.  There's too much of it on TV.  This past Saturday, all nine Big East teams
were on - NC State at UConn in the afternoon and then at 8PM, 4 other games were
on simultaneously:  Georgetown at Seton Hall on ESPN, Syracuse at BC on Channel
38, Villanova at St Johns on Channel 12 and St Johns at Pittsburgh on NESN.

3.  There's too much emphasis placed on the coaches and not enough emphasis on
the players.  The players and the teams win the games, not the coaches.  Coaches
have become cult heroes and get too much of the credit.

4.  There are more coaches than there are players and the coaches all look like
(and are as believable as) used car salesmen.

5.  The game is played too much under control and that hurts the game.  Basket-
ball should be almost a form of self-expression and creativity when played at
its highest level, as Michael Jordan does now.  Michael Jordan forced to play
in a controlled system is the equivalent of the stifling of a great artist.  Or
in another example, at the end of the UConn at Providence game the other night,
a UConn player had virtually an uncontested layup while it was clock-killing
time, and instead passed the ball out to kill more time.  Yawn.  Or, in the last
seconds, running the clock down and then calling time out to set up the last
shot?  Naah.  Let the offense take the defense by surprise.

6.  The 45 second clock is at least 15 seconds too long.

7.  Too many nit-picking little fouls are called.

8.  The endless parade of basket - timeout - foul - free throw at the end of the
game is one of the most boring things in sports.  They should either stop the
clock after each made basket in the last two minutes (like the pros do) or ban
a team from calling a timeout unless they are either in possession of the ball
or the clock is stopped anyway.  No more times out after made baskets.  I don't
know what to do about the parade to the foul line.

John
    

    re .124
    
    As far as the fouls go, personally I think the NCAA and NBA should go
    the route of some other leages and give the foul shot some teeth.
    
    1. The break away foul was a big improvement.
    
    2. Eliminate the 1-and-1.  All fouls are two-shoot fouls.
    
    3. Give type of foul an additional shot.  3 chances to make 2 points
    on normal fouls. 1-for-2 on free-throws after made basket.
    
    4. Allow three points for a foul on a 3-point shoot.
    
    Or if you want something with real bite, give em a free-throw and the
    ball back everytime.
    
    Maybe you'd want to tighten up the charge calls to keep the offense
    honest.
    
    Just some ideas...
    Scott

    Well, the streak didn't end last night but it was still an enjoyable
    evening.  Enjoyable watching Temple, that is.
    
    They play a style on offense that I just hate but I love the way they
    play defense.  They were in the face of anyone with the ball as soon as
    he got it.  They're intense and physical, but they're not very deep. 
    They've got good size, good balance and play tough, hard-nosed ball.
    
    Our kids fell behind early and came back to close it to within 2 at the
    half.  Temple was 5 for 6 on 3 pointers in the first half (ouch!).  It
    was close until about 5 minutes to go, Temple put on a small run and
    our kids couldn't have thrown the ball in the ocean if they were
    standing next to it.
    
    This is the first time I've seen us play against real quality
    competition and we've got a long way to go.  We didn't match up, we
    don't have any height and we don't have a real take-charge guy on the
    floor.  This team needs the kind of player Rick Pitino was.
    
    I spent some time with Ted Sarandis last night.  Ted is the radio voice
    of Harvard basketball and he dropped in to cover the game for some
    radio news stations he works with while on his way to New Haven for
    tonight's Harvard - Yale game.  He said Curry Hicks Cage is the finest
    atmosphere for college hoops anywhere in the East, except for Duke.
    
    John

    'Saw,
    
    Ted is a free-lance radio journalist and he covers the Patriots
    regularly.  Ted fills in on WBZ radio news during drive time, has done
    Public Address work at Boston Garden and was also PA announcer for the
    Worcester Counts in the summer of 1989.  One of the members of our
    stats crew is a lawyer and he represents Ted, so that's how I've gotten
    to know him.
    
    I haven't met Vanna White as part of my sports career but I've been
    working in sports in one form or another since I was a freshman in high
    school.  This will be my 22nd football season of actually working with
    a team.  In high school, I met some college coaches and a lot of
    officials, besides coaches and players from other teams.  In college, I
    got to know university administrators, people from the pros and perhaps
    most fun, our head trainer at UMass, Vic Keedy (who along with Coach
    Mac has been one of the two major influences in my life) was an Amherst
    native and he knew all the local places.  Some of my fondest memories
    of my college days were after spring football practice was over, going
    to different local places that most university students would have
    never seen.  If I'd stayed in the area, I'd have known where the best
    places to get kielbasa, lumber and farm equipment were (kind of like
    hanging around in this conference, actually) and it was a definite
    addition to my education that a lot of UMass students never got.
    
    The thing about sports is that it's like a fraternity and the people
    who work in it are generally friendly and outgoing.  It sometimes
    amazes me that I've been able to meet as many people as I have and
    maintain the friendships I have, given that in a lot of ways I tend to
    be a quiet and shy person.
    
    John

JOhn,

I still think you're gonna show up at Patriot's Day with Vanna White. ;^)


People are what make the world go round....

'Saw

The Ninja would put Vanna on like an Israeli gas mask!

Mike JN

    UNLV gets their last regular season test tonight against New Mexico
    State in Las Cruces.  UNLV won in Vegas on Feb 16th by 12 points, but
    it was never close as UNLV led by as many as 29 in that one.  NMSU has
    some good athletes and a lot of quickness, plus the home crowd will be
    fired up for this one.  The upset is possible, but I'll say Vegas by
    <10.  I just hope I can stay awake for the whole game.  UNLV is favored
    by 13.  
    
    Joe

Does anyone know who dealt Princeton their second loss (the first was to UNLV)?

j.

Does anyone know where I could get some College Hoops stats? The local
papers show win losses, and that's it. I'd be curious about teams'
records AWAY, and Team records AWAY against Top Forty teams. In the NBA,
a team'a AWAY record is usually an excellent indicator on how they're
going to do come tournament time (barring key injuries). I suspect this
would be even a better indicator in the College ranks.

Our papers also never have anything on College averages: avg. ppg, rb,
assts, etc.

Any ideas?
Mike JN

Mike --

try USA Today..... it'd be bette than what you have.....

fw

    >Pros who shoot 50% from the line play in the CBA.
    
    Don't tail that to Timberwolves point guard Pooh Richardson!
    
    MrT

    Who won last night's UNLV/NMSU game?

    UNLV won last night 86-74 in a very entertaining game.  UNLV led by as
    many as 18 and NMSU never got closer than 6 after the first couple of
    minutes.  The more I watch Vegas, the better they seem to get.  They
    must've had a dozen dunks in the first half.  NMSU is extremely quick,
    and played a whale of a game last night, but one thing that impresses
    me most about UNLV is that they never seem to get rattled.  Last night
    they go into a snakepit and calmly take control.  Every time NMSU
    seemed to be making a run, Vegas would get a steal or hit a trey and
    before you knew it their lead was double-figures again.  But NMSU also
    deserves quite a bit of credit, because every time UNLV threatened to
    blow it open the Aggies would make a small run.  If NMSU plays nearly
    as well as they did last night they will make it to the Sweet 16.
    
    
    Joe
       

    After watching the first half I sadly clicked off the tube and went to
    bed, accepting in resignation the fact that NOBODY, I repeat, *NOBODY*,
    will beat UNLV this year.  I could go on and on about how good Vegas is
    in absolutely every phase of the game, but the most depressing reality
    is when I compare the supposedly talented and fourth ranked Tar Heels
    with this Vegas squad.  In a head-to-head matchup we are so utterly
    out-manned, so completely overmatched, so physically disadvantaged, 
    that I honestly think we'd lose 10 outof 10 to these guys.
    
    Does anybody besides me think that this version of UNLV would have more
    NBA wins than the Denver Nuggets?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris,
    
    Nope, not a snowball's chance in Bagdad that UNLV could have more wins
    than the Nuggets.  They'd get their butts chewed up.   Beat most NBA
    teams could easily score 200 points vs. UNLV.
    
    JD
    
    

Funny that should come up. I was talking to a bunch of Hoops fans lasted
night about that very thing. The general consensus, after a lot of
discussion was that UNLV is an excellent team... that they have some
players who will go on to the NBA, and that a couple of them might even
be impact players ( Larry and Stacy have a chance ). But that as a team,
they really couldn't compete on an NBA level.

Mike JN

    Also Mike Dickie mentioned that Felton Spencer, who comes off the bench
    for them, will probably be a first round NBA draft pick.  You mentioned
    their forwards, which are the best in the country, but their backcourt
    is too.  Hunt hit a near-NBA 3-pointer last night with the greatest of
    ease.  No doubt he'll be a fine pro.  Anthony's no slouch either.
    
    You might be right about them not winning more than Denver, but you
    gotta admit these guys are closer to a pro team than an amateur one. 
    (I'm talking playing ability here, not the hefty bucks the Vegas
    players are no doubt pulling down ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Felton Spencer played for Louiville last year and is now with the
    Timberwolves.  You must be thinking of someone else.
    
    	--dan'l

    Kids last name is Spencer.  He transferred from Georgia.  He's over
    7'.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Las Vegas wins the opening tap last night, gets the ball low right 
    away to Johnson - slam!  NMSU scores, UNLV comes back and does the
    exact same thing - another Johnson slam.  Then UNLV hits consecutive
    three pointers on their next three possessions.  New Mexico State
    had four possessions, scored on three of them, and was down 13-6!!!
    
    State would have beaten any college team in the country last night
    except UNLV.  For their sake, I hope they get sent to another regional,
    because if they do, they have a legitimate chance to make the Final
    Four.
    
    NAZZ

    Spencer's first name is Elmore, I think.....
    
    Redmen Phil
    

	I finally have an answer for a question I posed earlier.
	The six conferences whose champions will have to "play-in" to
	the NCAA tournament are the Big South, MEAC, Northeast,
	Patriot, Southland, and SWAC.  The Northeast champion will meet
	the Patriot champion; the MEAC champion will meet the Southland
	champion; and the SWAC champion will meet the Big South champion.

	Each of these conferences start their tournaments this week,
	with the Northeast conference starting their tournament tonight.
	2nd-seeded Fairleigh Dickinson hosts 7th-seeded Wagner,
	3rd seeded Monmouth hosts 6th-seeded Marist, and 4th-seeded
	St.Francis of New York hosts 5th-seeded Long Island.  The top
	seed, St.Francis of Pennsylvania, has a first round bye.
	In the other 5 conferences listed above, the top seeds will be
	Fordham, Coastal Carolina, Coppin State, Northeast Louisiana,
	and Jackson State.

	Princeton is the only team so far to have clinched an NCAA tournament
	appearance.
	

This Week's Tournaments:

	American South	New Orleans, Friday-Sunday
	Big South	Anderson SC, Thursday-Saturday
	Colonial	Richmond, Saturday-Monday
	East Coast	Towson MD, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday
	Mid-Eastern	Norfolk, Wednesday-Saturday
	Missouri Valley	St. Louis, Firday-Sunday, Tuesday
	Northeast	(campus sites), Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday
	Ohio Valley	Murray KY, Saturday, Wednesday, Thursday
	Patriot		Worcester, Thursday-Saturday
	Southern	Ashville NC, Friday-Sunday
	Southland	Monroe LA, Thursday-Saturday
	Southwestern	Houston, Friday-Sunday
	Sunbelt		Mobile, Saturday-Monday
	West Coast	Santa Clara, Saturday-Monday

TTom

    What about the North Atlantic Conference? They used to get an automatic
    bid to the NCAAs, which was almost always Notheastern (I think BU won
    once and they made a big deal over it). The league has shrunk in the
    last few years, so maybe they don't merit a spot any more. Even still,
    I'd think that they might play off against the winner of a similar
    conference for the bid.
    
    Tom

    NAC still has an automatic bid.  Tournament starts nexted week,
    with the top two teams getting byes, and a 3 vs 6/4 vs 5 prelim
    round at home sites (first time out of the Hartford CC in four
    years).  Semis are nexted Thursday and the finals Saturday at
    the highest remaining seed at 11:00 AM (I think).
    
    NAZZ 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SPORTSTICKER COLLEGE BASKETBALL STATISTICS
  THROUGH GAMES OF MONDAY, FEBRUARY 25TH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


SCORING
=======
                                G    TFG   3FG    FTS   PTS  AVG
                                -    ---   ---    ---   ---  ---   
KEVIN BRADSHAW, US INTL        26    334    56    255   979  37.7
ALPHONSO FORD, MISS VALLEY ST  27    309    86    172   876  32.4
STEVE ROGERS, ALABAMA ST       27    255    50    234   794  29.4
TERRELL LOWERY, LOYOLA CA      29    281    99    173   834  28.8
VON MCDADE, WIS-MILWAUKEE      24    223    80    164   690  28.8
BOBBY PHILLS, SOUTHERN         27    252   120    147   771  28.6
SHAQUILLE ONEAL, LSU           26    293     0    142   728  28.0
RODNEY MONROE, N.C. STATE      25    242    90    119   693  27.7
JOHN TAFT, MARSHALL            28    256    82    170   764  27.3
ERIC MURDOCK, PROVIDENCE       26    228    54    193   703  27.0
TERRELL BRANDON, OREGON        24    232    35    141   640  26.7
KENNY ANDERSON, GEORGIA TECH   25    239    61    126   665  26.6
STEVE SMITH, MICHIGAN ST       25    223    52    141   639  25.6
CURTIS STUCKEY, BRADLEY        27    236    54    163   689  25.5
TOM DAVIS, DELAWARE ST         27    268     0    140   676  25.0 


ASSISTS
=======

                                G    NO    AVG
                                -    --    ---
DANNY TIRADO, JACKSONVILLE     27   252     9.3
CHRIS CORCHIANI, NC STATE      25   233     9.3
KEITH JENNINGS, E TENN ST      29   268     9.2
TERRELL LOWERY, LOYOLA CAL     29   268     9.2
GREG ANTHONY, UNLV             26   239     9.2


FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGE
=====================

                                G    FG    FGA    PCT
                                -    ---   ---    ---  
OLIVER MILLER, ARKANSAS        29    188   266    70.7
MARCUS KENNEDY, EASTERN MICH   25    181   258    70.2
PETE FREEMAN, AKRON            26    163   234    69.7
WARREN KIDD, MIDDLE TENN ST    27    153   221    69.2
LESTER JAMES, ST FRANCIS (NY)  27    139   202    68.8 


THREE-POINT FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGE
=================================

                                G    FG    FGA    PCT
                                -    --    ---    ---  
KEITH JENNINGS, E TENN. ST     29    70    115   60.9
TIM LOCUM, WISCONSIN           24    61    105   58.1
TODD LESLIE, NORTHWESTERN      24    58    104   55.8
DAVID MITCHELL, SAMFORD        23    40     74   54.1
ROSS RICHARDSON, LOYOLA CAL    24    60    112   53.6


REBOUNDING
==========

                                G    NO    AVG
                                -    --    ---
SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, LSU          26   376   14.5
POPEYE JONES, MURRAY ST        30   429   14.3
LARRY STEWART, COPPIN ST       27   367   13.6
TIM BURROUGHS, JACKSONVILLE    26   340   13.1
TOM DAVIS, DELAWARE ST         27   334   12.4


BLOCKED SHOTS
=============
 
                               G    NO    AVG
                               -    --    ---
SHAWN BRADLEY, BYU            28   151    5.4
CEDRIC LEWIS, MARYLAND        26   137    5.3
DIKEMBE MUTOMBO, GEORGETOWN   26   132    5.1
SHAQUILLE O'NEAL, LSU         26   132    5.1
KEVIN ROBERSON, VERMONT       25    92    3.7


STEALS 
======

                               G    NO    AVG
                               -    --    ---
SCOTT BURRELL, CONNECTICUT    25    95    3.8
VAN USHER, TENNESSEE TECH     27   100    3.7
ERIC MURDOCK, PROVIDENCE      26    90    3.5
LYNN SMITH, ST FRANCIS (NY)   27    93    3.4
KETIH JENNINGS, E TENN ST     29    99    3.4

             First team

	F    Larry Johnson      UNLV
	F    Billy Owens        Syracuse
	C    Shaquille O'Neal   LSU
	G    Jimmy Jackson      Ohio State
	G    Keith Jennings     ETSU

    The Minutemen avoided a 7th seed in the Atlantic 10 tournament (thus
    forcing a preliminary game against St Bonaventure and a first round
    game with either Rutgers or Temple) with an 82-70 win at Rhode Island
    last night.  According to something I read, this marks the first time
    in 55 years that UMass went unbeaten in hoops against New England
    opponents and clearly (at least in these biased eyes) makes us the
    *NUMBER ONE COLLEGE BASKETBALL PROGRAM IN NEW ENGLAND* this year.
    
    The Atlantic 10 ended up very balanced this year.  Rutgers won the
    regular season title at 14-4, Temple is currently 12-5, Duquesne is
    10-7 (Duquesne is at Temple tonight) and Penn State, West Virginia,
    George Washington and us are all tied at 10-8.  If the Dukes lose
    tonight, it'll be a 5-way tie for 3rd and we'll be seeded 5th.  If the
    Dukes win, they finish 3rd, we're seeded 6th and we'll play the Dukes
    in the first round game.
    
    John

Re one man's all america (sic) team:


>	F    Larry Johnson      UNLV
>	F    Billy Owens        Syracuse
>	C    Shaquille O'Neal   LSU

Pretty much consensus, here.

>	G    Jimmy Jackson      Ohio State

I thought he was a forward. Baker and Brown are the guards, right?

>	G    Keith Jennings     ETSU

Kieth is pushing Corchianni for the career assist record. Cochianni put
some serious distance last night with 20 assists. He's got a lead of
about 40. He also has 1 more regular season game left. He'll most
probably get to 1000 before Jennings who has a_advantage of playing more
games in the Southern Conference tourney and since they are higher rated
they might go further in the NCAAs (i.e., play more games) than NC State.

In any case, I'd put Anderson Hunt as one of the guards and the media
will probably put your buddy Kenny Anderson at guard.

TTom

	C  The Shack
 	F  Owens
	F  Jimmy Jackson
	G  Monroe
	G  Murdock

 mike

    F  Larry 
    F  Billy 
    C  (I'm having a shack "attack")
    G  Jim
    G  Corch
    
    Big10 Tom

         Anyone have the information on where the sites to be played are
    for the NCAA Tournament?
         Is this something that has already been announced or is it 
    announced the week before the tournament?

         If someone knows the information could you please post it.

                                              Thank you,
                                  
                                                    Richard

    It's been announced, it's probably floating around somewhere in here
    but I don't know where it is.  Besides, I follow the hockey tournament
    much more closely anyway.
    
    Back to hoops - Temple beat Duquesne lasted night.  This puts UMass
    seeded 5th in the Atlantic 10 Tournament.  I have no idea who we play
    in the first round, but if we get past that and if Rutgers survives,
    then we'd play Rutgers in the second round, which makes me feel a lot
    better than if we'd have to play Temple.  Not great, but better.  We
    match up much better with Rutgers and we don't have the 0-20 lifetime
    record hanging over our heads.
    
    John

Starters:

F    Larry Johnson 
F    Billy Owens 
C    Shaquille O'Neal 
G    Jimmy Jackson
G    Chris Corchiani

Off the bench:

Stacy Augmon
Alonzo Mourning
Christian Laettner
Kenny Anderson
Bobby Hurley

Coach:

Mike JN

Bobby Hurley? It's a joke, right? I mean, I appreciate all the ACCers you
have there but Bobby Hurley?

TTom

    The Minutemen sort of took the pipe in yesterday's quarterfinal vs
    George Washington.  I missed the game (which was telecast on Sports
    Channel) because I had to waste my afternoon at an engagement party for
    my youngest brother (who's marrying my sister-in-law's younger sister,
    so there ain't nothin' like keeping it in the family) but one of our
    guys apparently missed a free throw at the end of regulation.  Then in
    OT, GW turned the ball over to us with 45 seconds left and a 1 point
    lead.  In the last 10 seconds we missed a shot, had a shot blocked and
    lost the ball out of bounds.
    
    What really pisses me off is that St Joseph's beat Rutgers so we'd have
    had a reasonably clear path to the finals.  Here's what kills me about
    not reseeding.  Temple, which is the number 2 seed, plays number 3
    seed Penn State while #4 GW plays #8 St Joseph's.  It really should
    have been completely reseeded, in fairness to Temple and Penn State.
    
    I'm not the only one who had to miss an important game because of
    family stuff yesterday.  One of my other brothers had tickets to the
    Celtics - Portland game and had to give them up.
    
    John

    I had an opportunity to see Princeton at Harvard Friday night.  I've
    said before that one of the things I hate about college hoops is the
    fact that the game is over controlled and played at too slow a pace. 
    But, if you have a team with talent that isn't capable of playing at
    the top level on talent alone, a system that's well executed can
    certainly make up for it.  That's Princeton.
    
    Princeton has no speed and no leaping ability although they had 2
    people dunk on fast breaks during the game.  What they have is
    discipline.  If after a missed basket the fast break is there, they
    take it.  Otherwise, they run a weave looking for two things - an
    uncontested back-door layup (which they got lots of) or an open outside
    shot.  They were 7 for 11 on 3 pointers in the first half and at least
    4 of those came with less than 3 seconds left on the clock.  It's like
    Chinese Water Torture basketball but it works, because it takes
    exceptional discipline to play against them.  It doesn't work if they
    fall behind and they did have some trouble handling the press, but I
    now see why they give teams with better talent fits.
    
    The thing I like best about it is the lack of coaching during the game. 
    Carril and his staff only called one time out, were never yelling out
    offenses or defenses to the players during the game, barely even stood
    up (I never saw Carril get off the bench and I doubt any of the other
    coaches did) and let the kids play the game and take the responsibility
    for making the decisions on the court.  *AND THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE.*
    
    John

Neither Georgia Tech or Georgetown deserve to be in the NCAA tournament 
unless they reach the finals of their league tournaments...

The announcer on CBS said yesterday that Arizona would probably be the 
#2 seed in the West.   I don't buy it.   To be a #2 seed, a team should
be in the top 8.  Arizona hasn't proved to be that good.   I think the
NCAA will load up the West in order to "take down" UNLV.  I wouldn't be
surprised to see Arizona the #3 seed in the West, with one of: UNC, Duke,
Syracuse, Indiana being #2.... depending on which does worse over the 
next week.   

 When did JJ become a guard? I thought Brown and Baker were OSU's starting
 guards? I know JJ can play anywhere he wants but it seems to me you guys
 are playing him at guard so you can place Larry "limited" on your teams..

 ;^)

 mike

JJ will undoubtedly be a guard in the pros... just like Clyde
Drexler.   Calling him a forward just because there's two other
guards on the floor doesn't make him a forward.  He handles the
ball too much, both on the break and on the offensive end to really
call him a forward.

Larry "limited" will be Larry "lottery" in a couple months.  A Karl Malone/
James Worthy hybrid.

One basketball paper  named their All America team last week:

	Johnson, Augmon, O'Neal, Monroe, Anderson

Obviously, all those rags that had Kenny on the cover in the pre-season need
to save some face now by naming him to the first team.   All American point
guard - shooting 42% and handing out 6 assists.   Only in America! :-)

 I agree with you Doug about both JJ and Larry but I figured if you were
 going to name players by posistion than you ought to name them by where
 they start for their respective teams not by where they will eventually
 play. Folks are mesmarized by the way K_K-Kenny dribbles I guess. Also if 
 we were going to name the five best players in America I would drop one of
 the guards and add Mutumbo....

 mike

    The UMass loss to GW on Sunday is proving to be even more costly as
    Penn State knocked off Temple last night.  Penn State will host GW on
    Thursday.  We split with Penn State during the season and have played
    the Nittany Lions tough over the years.
    
    The UMass women's hoop team completed a perfect 0-26 season this past
    weekend too.
    
    John

	Richmond, St.Peter's, and South Alabama joined the ranks of NCAA
	tournament teams with conference tournament championship victories
	last night.  The Pepperdine-St.Mary's winner from the west coast also
	will be in the tournament.  In the next couple of days, we'll see
	the winners of the following games make the tournament:

	Creighton vs Southwest Missouri State
	Towson State vs Rider
	Fordham vs St.Francis (Pennsylvania)
	Florida A&M vs Northeast Louisiana
	Jackson State vs Coastal Carolina
	Penn State vs George Washington
	Northern Illinois vs Wisconsin-Green Bay

For all of you hoopsters that may have missed some of the top games
yesterday:

Slippery Rock 88    Edinboro 72
Francis Marion 77   Claflin  67
Orchard Lake St Marys 79   Grand Rapids Baptist 65
Siena Heights  80   Aquinas  79
S.C. Aiken 68       Benedict 56 OT
Richmond 81         George Mason  78
St. Peters 64       Iona  58
Viterbo  97         Wisconsin River Falls 82
Franklin  66        Hanover  57
Pembroke St 82      Lenoir-Rhyne  72
Pfeiffer  96        Catawba  84
Bloomsburg  72      Millerville  65

Some interesting upsets there, hey?

Mike JN

 Is Shawn Worthy of Iona, Jimmy Clang's younger bro? He clanged a few foul
 shots just like Jimmy would...

 ;^)

    Divine intervention? They better investigate it. I thought only ND was
    allowed that. No sharing the wealth
    

    
    Divine intervention - does that mean they have a big fat transvestite
    playing power forward?
    

	Ohio State Buckeyes		25   1   .962
	Princeton Tigers		23   2   .920
	East Tennessee State Buccaneers 28   4   .875
	Arizona Wildcats		24   6   .800
	St.Peter's Peacocks		24   6   .800
	Wisconsin-Green Bay Phoenix	24   6   .800
	Creighton Bluejays		23   7   .767
	South Alabama Jaguars		22   8   .733
	Pepperdine Waves		22   8   .733
	Louisiana Tech Bulldogs		21   9   .700
	Richmond Tigers			21   9   .700
	Towson State Tigers		19  10   .655

>	Richmond Tigers			21   9   .700
                 ^^^^^^
    
    That should be Spiders.
    
    	--dan'l

>	Richmond Tigers			21   9   .700
                 ^^^^^^
    
>    That should be Spiders.
    


     You're right.  I was up with a customer in the middle night, and am
     not yet awake enough to maintain all the important, sports-related
     knowledge in my head.

     Big games tonight:
     Northeast Louisiana vs Florida A&M
     Fordham at St.Francis (Pennsylvania)
     Coastal Carolina at Jackson State

     The winners of these games make the NCAA 64-team field.

 I picked up a copy of "The National" while I was in Phlegm Creek
 yesterday and it had a fascinating article on the Mississippi State
 Bulldogs basketball team.
 
 With a share of the SEC title, MSU is going to make the NCAAs this year
 for the first time since 1963.  Ordinarily, that's no big deal but the
 1963 MSU team was very special indeed.
 
 MSU had won SEC titles a couple of times in the late 1950s and maybe once
 or twice more in the early 1960s.  Each time they refused an invitation to
 the NCAA tournament.  Why ???   Because state law in Mississippi
 prohibited collegiate athletic teams from the University of Mississippi
 and Mississippi State University from playing against other teams with
 black players.   No shit, a state law.
 
 But MSU hired a new president in 1963, a man from North Carolina, who was
 disturbed with this situation.  So he announced that MSU *would* accept a
 1963 NCAA bid despite the state law.   Well, the whole state went nuts. 
 The editorial pages in the newspapers went wild.  The coach's ex-college
 roommate was a state senator and they had a bitter falling out over it.
 
 So, the state got an injunction to prevent the team's plane from leaving
 Starkville.   Except that they never got the chance to serve the papers
 since the coach had flown himself and all but one of the assistant coaches
 up to Memphis the night before.   The remaining coach dodged the police
 and the injunction papers long enough to get the players on the plane and
 out of the state.  Big headlines in the papers ... "THEY GOT AWAY" and
 stuff like that.
 
 The team arrived in Cincinnati to play Loyola who started five black
 players.   MSU lost to Loyola who eventually won the whole thing.   But
 the MSU players and the Loyola players exchanged warm greetings, tears,
 hugs, and handshakes before and after the game.  The MSU players all said
 it was the friendliest game they had ever played and they were rooting for
 Loyola to go on and win it all afterwards.
 
 A couple of years later, the first black enrolled at MSU and by 1971 MSU
 had recruited its first black basketball player.    The current team is
 mostly black and I think they start 3 or 4 black players now.
 
 The coach has since passed on I believe but the 1963 players are all
 settled down in nice family situations.   A truly nice story and one that
 shows *REAL* courage.  Mississippi has changed a lot since those days and
 I would like to think that that basketball team had something to do with
 it.
 
 I'm a new MSU Bulldog fan.
 
 Bob Hunt

Thanks for the report, Bob.

TTom

    I think that MSU story would make a terrific movie.  
    
    	--dan'l

    Wow! I'm constantly amazed at stories like that. You could say that
    1963 wasn't that long ago, but then again, it WAS a long time ago.
    
    Tom

	Three games tonight with the winners going to the NCAA tournament:

	Atlantic Ten Conference Championship:
	George Washington 19-10 at Penn State 19-10

	Ohio Valley Conference Championship:
	Middle Tennessee State 21-8 at Murray State 23-8

	Trans-America Athletic Conference Championship:
	Arkansas-Little Rock 10-19 vs Georgia State 15-14 at DeLand, Florida


	Georgia State has never beaten Arkansas-Little Rock.  The Trojans
	may make the NCAA's with an 11-19 record.  The winner of this game
	is likely to be the first round opponent of Nevada-Las Vegas.

    
    >	Atlantic Ten Conference Championship:
    >	George Washington 19-10 at Penn State 19-10
    
    Go State!  Anybody know the last time Penn State made the NCAA's?
    Had to be at least the sixties...
    
    Clearly, as Penn State is soon to start Big Ten play (1992-93?), they
    cannot be considered welfare moochers.  George Washington is a whole
    'nother story, though...
    
    glenn
     

    
    Geogia state is in!  The streak is broken.
        
                     Final score:  Georgia State  80    Ark. little Rock 60

    Penn State made it last night with a 6-point win over GW.  Penn State
    had a 15 point lead at the half and I guess GW made it close later on.
    
    John

	Who won the two NAC tournament games last night ?

    Looks like Frieder is going to take ASU to the NCAA's in only his 2nd
    season as coach.  They won their 18th last night.
    
    Mike

    I'm headed up to Laramie this afternoon to catch the WAC semifinals
    tonight.  First game is BYU-Hawaii, followed by Wyoming against
    8th-ranked Utah.  Should be fun!
    
    The WAC will probably get 3 teams.  Utah is a lock, and they will
    probably take 2 out of the following 3: New Mexico, BYU, and Wyoming.
    The Lobos killed themselves by losing in the opening round to Hawaii
    yesterday, but they do have 20 wins.  BYU should beat Hawaii tonight
    and reach the WAC title game, which should be enough to get them in. 
    So it's probably Wyoming or New Mexico getting the third spot (if there
    is a 3rd one).  Wyoming started out the season well, but lost 7 of
    their last 10 regular season games.  But if Wyoming can knock off Utah
    tonight, that will leave a good impression on the committee.  Utah's
    only loss in the conference was at New Mexico. 
    
    Joe
    

	Scores today so far:

	Atlantic Coast:
	North Carolina State 42, Georgia Tech 38, 2nd half

	Big East:
	Seton Hall 70, Pittsburgh 69, final
	   Pirates get lay-up with 1 second left to win.
	Villanova 28, Syracuse 18, 1st half

	Big Eight:
	Missouri 97, Iowa State 81, final

	Mid-American:
	Ball State 77, Central Michigan 69, final

	Southeastern:
	Auburn 92, Louisiana State 77, final
	  Shaquille O'Neal DNP.

	Southwest:
	Southern Methodist 65, Houston 62, final

    The University of Massachusetts will host its first-ever NIT game on
    Friday night, March 15 vs the La Salle Explorers.  While it would have
    been nice if we'd made the NCAAs, we aren't good enough yet and I'm
    happy to see us in the NIT.  I hope we can show La Salle what "The Rage
    in the Cage" is all about!
    
    John

    Here's one for all you Jerry Tarkanian fans.
    
    My Techhaid neighbor friend who got me to the ACC Tourney [the one 
    I'm making bi-weekly blackmail payments to now, thanks to dan'l and 
    BobHunt :^(] has a sister who works in the Tech athletic department. 
    (That's how he got the tix.)
    
    Anyways she keeps track of all the academic information that the NCAA
    is gathering nowadays.  Stuff like graduation percentages and the like.  
    Consequently she has access to alot of information that folks like Tark
    and Billy Tubbs are trying to keep hush-hush.
    
    So, anyone wanna take a guess as to how many black athletes Jerry
    Tarkanian has graduated during his stint at UNLV?  Think long and hard
    before hitting RETURN.
    
    
    ZERO.  NONE.  0.  NADA.  ZIP.  
    
    Now take a guess at how many white athletes Jerry has graduated.
    
    
    1.  And it's his son.
    
    Unreal,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Seriously, I know UNLV is bad, but I find those numbers hard to
    believe, Chris.  I thought I had even read at one point that Tark was
    only graduating around 20% or something like that, which is pathetic
    but a lot more than 1 divided by N.
    
    Or are these more of those funny stats that don't count transfers,
    extra semesters, etc., that showed Bob Knight to be such a poor
    education-minded coach?
    
    glenn
    

    	I didn't know the basketball coach was responsible for his players
    graduating.  I always thought his job was to coach the basketball
    team.
    
    				/Don

    > I didn't know the basketball coach was responsible for his players
    > graduating.  I always thought his job was to coach the basketball
    > team.
    
    So true, /Don, but by the same token it shouldn't be the coach's
    responsibility to decide who attends the university, but we all know
    that's not true, especially in Tark's (he of Lloyd Daniels' fame)
    case...
    
    glenn
    

    Did Armon Gilliam not graduate?  Did he leave school early?  He has
    proven to be very articulate and quite the writer, at least while he
    was in Charlotte.  Maybe he majored in math.
    
    	--dan'l

    	What Dan'l says is interesting.  We usually equate a college
    degree with intelligence.  I equate it with money.
    
    				/Don

    re: .-1
    
    If money were the issue /Don Vegas would be up there with the Ivies on
    graduation percentages.
    
    No surprise that folks are rushing to poor Tarks defense though.  I
    expected it.  Just wanted you to be knowledgeable supporters, that's
    all.
    
    In regards to Armon I *may* have some general insight here.  The sister
    of my Techhaid neighbor used to do some tutoring for the basketball
    players.  (She tutored Salley, Antoine Ford, and Duane Ferrell, among
    others.)  She claims that by far the biggest problem these kids have is
    that they can't read.  They might be reasonably smart and articulate,
    but if you can't read at a decent pace chances are slim you'll ever get
    a degree.  (Certainly not at Tech.)  
    
    Course you can stay eligible for 4 years by taking lots of cupcake
    courses, but to get a diploma you need to run into some tougher
    cirriculum classes, and that's where they just can't cut it.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    
    

    I wish I had saved the article that Armon Gilliam wrote in the
    Charlotte Observer several months back in defense of Tark.  I'm sure he
    had editors, but so do the best writers.  It was his writing and no one
    elses.  There's no way you can have trouble reading and be able to
    write like that.  He was more in touch with the English language than
    many noters in here.
    
    I find it very hard to believe he did not graduate.  He seems smart
    enough to have done so.
    
    	--dan'l

                         AP ALL-AMERICAN TEAMS

FIRST TEAM
----------
Shaquille O'Neal	LSU
Larry Johnson		UNLV
Billy Owens		Syracuse
Kenny Anderson		Geo Tech
Stacey Augmon		UNLV

Interesting, hey? They went with a Center, Three Forwards, and a Guard.

SECOND TEAM
-----------
Jimmy Jackson		Ohio State
Eric Murdock		Providence
Christian Laettner	Duke
Steve Smith		Mich. State
Todd Day		Arkansas

This time, they went one Center, one Forward (Day). and three guards...
Note: the article specifically refers to `Sophomore Guard Jimmy Jackson
of Ohio State'. Is there a consensus on what we're going to call him? Or
is he an either/or? I've seen him line up both as a guard and as a
forward. For that matter, Stacy Augmon lines up as a guard a lot also. I
think we should be loose enough to let people decide what they want to
pick them as, if they want to use them in the contest.

THIRD TEAM
----------
Calbert Cheaney		Indiana
Doug Smith		Missouri
Keith Jennings		East Tennessee
Rodney Monroe		NC State
D. Mutombo		Georgetown

They finally did a Center, two Forwards, and two Guards.

The desire has to be there to take advantage of the opportunity.  But I think
there's more to it than that.  The biggest desires most 18 year old boys
have I know don't have much to do with book learnin'.  You have to 
set up the expectation that the kid will graduate and take some steps to
make it stick.  If it doesn't happen and the kid turns out to be the next
Michael Jordan, he'll trade one opportunity for another.  But at least the
school tries to act like a school rather than a competitor with Saturday
afternoon TV golf and horror movies.

I see a scholarship to play a sport with big TV money associated with it
as a deal between the kid and the school:  you help us fund our school and
build our prestige by playing for us, and we give you a chance to build
the other parts of your life which don't get developed on a parquet floor.
And, (he said, fantasizing about a more reasonable world,) because we 
recognize that you can't be a top drawer athlete and a top drawer student in 
1991 while working nights at 7-11 for chump change (and because the school 
can afford to give back a little of the revenue the athletes generate), we'll 
pay you a stipend.

Dave W.

    Chris, does your neighbor's sister (or whoever it was) also keep track
    of how many kids that attended these schools would never have had the
    chance to do so, and most likely would have ended up on the streets if
    not for the opportunity to play ball?
                           

    re: .-1
    
    Ah yes, the ole 'College is for everybody, no matter how illiterate you
    may be.' argument.  True Tarkanian boosters would be lost wifout this
    one!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris,
    
    First, college students with the inability to read are not the fault of
    the college, but of the US educational system.  
    
    Second, in the last note, are you implying that college should just be
    for a chosen few?   Remember the good ol days when only white, male,
    upper middle class folks got to go to college?  Wouldn't that be great!
    
    I got a stipend for part of my college days from the sports department.
    I got a nice, no-brain, no-work job that paid okay money.  My education
    was never, EVER, NEVER the responsibility of my coaches.  NEVER.  And
    that's the way it should be.  I didn't rely on my math professors to
    tuck me in, to make sure I ate 3 squares a day, to get good nights
    sleep, to do my homework - and I sure as hell didn't expect my coaches
    to.  I had a committment to my coaches - show up for all practices, on
    time, and ready to apply myself.  That's it.  As long as I did that,
    they were happy.  If I screwed up, I got a lecture. 
    
    Why is it that some people insist that college coaches are responsible
    for the development of their players?  Are little league coaches
    responsible for the learning process of 4th graders?  NO.
    
    Of course Chris, I dont' know what college you went to.  Mine was an
    inner city college, with many of the inner city problems that you like
    to Haw Haw about.  
    
    It's the athlete's responsibility, as an ADULT, to take advantage of
    the advantages given him or her.  They have the chance to not only get
    free tuition to play a sport they love, but to get an education.  What
    they do with that is up to THEM.  
    
    JD

>    Second, in the last note, are you implying that college should just be
>    for a chosen few?   Remember the good ol days when only white, male,
>    upper middle class folks got to go to college?  Wouldn't that be great!
    
    That seems to be what Chris is indeed saying.  Jesse Helms has stated
    similar views.  Not that there are any conclusions to be drawn here.
    
>    Of course Chris, I dont' know what college you went to.  
    
    It wasn't UNC.  [Just had to state that one more time, Chris.]
    
    	--dan'l

 Laettner before Mutumbo that rich...hahahahaaa as usual the overhyped ACC/ 
 Dukies get another one they didn't deserve........

 mike

    ASU is back in the tourney for the first time in 7 years.  They open
    with Rutgers in Atlanta.
    
    Mike

>    Second, in the last note, are you implying that college should just be
>    for a chosen few?   Remember the good ol days when only white, male,
>    upper middle class folks got to go to college?  Wouldn't that be great!
    
    The implication you're referring to has nothing to do with race, sex,
    social status, or financial well-being, but whether or not a prospective 
    college student can read or write.  I would have thought that would
    have been fairly obvious.
    
    I won't make the same mistake and assume all you Tark-lovers believe
    kids who can't read or write deserve a chance at college.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re a few back from Chris:
    
    If colleges were solely for education, then we wouldn't have this hyped
    up show put on by the NCAA.

    	If colleges were solely for education Snuffy would be beating
    the bushes of Tobacco Roads selling insurance.

 This sounds like the old Prop 42 debate is about ready to boil up all over
 again.   Some of the folks in here have rock hard attitudes about some
 aspects of this issue ... including me.
 
 My firm stance is that this nation's institutions of higher learning
 should not no way, not no how, *ever* consider sacrificing even one
 steenking inch of a sincere commitment to their academic excellence in
 pursuit of their athletic achievements.
 
 The kid in the lab coat is *MORE* important than the kid in sneakers.  And
 John Thompson and John Chaney burned their bridges with me when they
 protested Prop 42 in favor of lowered academic standards.
 
 JD is 100% right that the economic slavery of the inner-city ghettoes is
 to blame for the depressingly low academic performance of those students. 
 But there *has* to be a better way out of that living hell than a 360,
 rock-the-baby, in-jo-face slam dunk ticket to a college.
 
 Please, there has to be ... for everyone's sake.
 
 Bob Hunt

For dose dat are interested:

                        ASSOCIATED PRESS POLLS

           Pre-Season Rankings         End-of-Season Rankings

    	 1) 	Nevada - Las Vegas	 1) UNLV
    	 2) 	Arkansas	    	 2) Arkansas
    	 3) 	Arizona	    	  	 3) Indiana
    	 4) 	Michigan State	    	 4) North Carolina
    	 5) 	North Carolina	    	 5) Ohio State
    	 6) 	Duke	    	 	 6) Duke
    	 7) 	Alabama	    	 	 7) Syracuse
    	 8) 	Indiana	    	 	 8) Arizona
    	 9) 	Georgetown	    	 9) Kentucky
    	10)	Ohio State	    	10) Utah
    	11)	UCLA	    		11) Nebraska
    	12)	Pittsburgh	    	12) Kansas
    	13)	Syracuse	    	13) Seton Hall
    	14)	LSU	    		14) Oklahoma St
    	15)	Oklahoma	    	15) New Mexico St
    	16)	Georgia Tech	    	16) UCLA
    	17)	Connecticut	    	17) East Tennessee St
    	18)	Virginia	    	18) Princeton
    	19)	Temple	    		19) Alabama
    	20)	Missouri	    	20) St John's
    	21)	Georgia	       		21) Mississippi St
    	22)	Texas	    		22) LSU
    	23)	Louisville	    	23) Texas
    	24)	Southern Mississippi	24) DePaul
    	25)	St. John's	    	25) Southern Mississippi

    Ron Harper could hardly read or write when he entered college.  No big
    schools wanted to take a chance on him.  Miami of Ohio did.  Within two
    weeks they found out he was dyslexic.  Within two years he was at a B
    average.  What if Miami had closed the doors like everyone else?
    
    On the other hand, we have the case of Manut Bol.  Enuf said.
    
    	--dan'l

    See, I agree 100% with Bob Hunt.  The guy in the lab coat is a hell of
    a lot more important than the guy who can slamma jamma, blitz the QB,
    pop the homer, humm the fastball, or skate like the wind.
    
    And I agree with Bruce May.  If colleges were solely for educational
    purposes, than its kinda hypocritical to push athletics like they do.
    
    And while some may want to hide and claim this isn't an issue about
    race, creed, etc., unfortunately it is.  A recent study showed that a
    whopping 43% of black high school athletes expected to make the
    professional sporting ranks and make buck, while only 14% of their
    white counterparts thought they'd make it in sports.  BOTH percentages
    are extremely high - and show unrealistic expectations of sports as the
    way to easy street, economic stability, and livlihood.  
    
    Until this country puts nobel peace prize winners on the same adulation
    level as the Micheal Jordan's - those numbers will continue to reflect
    false hopes and expectations.
    
    And the false expectations have to be drilled home.  Of all the
    athletes I teamed with, competed with, worked-out with, and went to
    school with - one, ONE, made the Olympics, and didn't win a medal.
    ONE.  That's reality.  
    
    Some responsibility has to rest with the athlete - if you're a bench
    warmer in college - you ain't gonna be drafted.  You ain't gonna make
    the pros.  You ain't gonna get rich. You better get moving on some
    schooling, or the fast food economy awaits you.  
    
    How many folks watch college hoops and wonder how the players did in
    class that week?  If they did all their reading?  Finished assigments?
    Were enriched?  Or do we only care when some team is better than ours -
    so we fall back on the "they're hired guns, they caint read, they caint
    write, they take basketweaving" arguement?
    
    JD

>    For America's sake!  Reading latest reports on how far behind we, as a
>    country, are getting- it's absolutely sickening.  Just look at how the
>    foreign students are blowing away academically our own students in our
>    own universities.  You think they care about NCAA hoops when they go
>    back to their countries with their doctorates, ready to add yet some
>    more distance between them and us?
 
    And why do you think all these foreigners are attending US
    universities?  Because the US university educational system is
    unquestionably the best in the world.  The very best foreign
    students attend our universities and should do well compared to our
    average students.  Our best students match up very well against the
    world's best.
       
>    The leadership is to blame here, past and present.  Unfortunately, our
>    present leadership, who so boldly campaigned for educational
>    excellence, has yet to deliver on said commitments.  And, I doubt he
>    will either.  He's gained so much public support on his latest project
>    that he can sit back and do nothing for 6 more years and still be the
>    man of the decade....
    
    
    Leadership doesn't have to do anything, and our university systerm will
    continue to excel, it has no choice.  With a declining college age
    population as a result of the baby boomers all being past college age,
    in order for these institutions to survive, they have to excel, as
    learning institutions, not athletic institutions.
    
    There are too many alarmists running around making broad statements
    that aren't backed up in reality.  How else do you explain the fact
    that a country with less than 5% of the world's population year in and
    year out wins more than half of the Nobel Prizes and is either first or
    second in the number of patent awards?
    
      

>>    Why did it take a college to find out Harper was dyslexic?  Why wasn't
>>    it noticed the 13 years prior?
    
    There was a Sports Illustrated article on Harper during his senior
    year.  He was from the inner-city somewhere where underachieving was
    the norm rather than the exception so no one ever bothered to diagnose
    his reading disorder.  
    
    When he got to Miami, a professor or his tutor caught it pretty quickly
    and got him in the appropriate correctional classes.  After he got
    himself straigtened out (he could hardly talk when he entered Miami,
    let alone read), he befriended this little boy he had met who was also
    suffering from dyslexia.  It was quite a touching story.
    
    Also remember that dyslexia still had kind of a myth syndrome attached
    to it in the early 80's.  
    
    I agree with Bob Hunt about the prop 48 stuff and all, but this
    particular instance is somewhat tainted with racism.  If Harper had
    been in a middle-class or above school, he might have been diagnosed
    early on.  However, some in here would have you believe that if a kid
    can't read coming out of high school, he's not worth the time.  That's
    a shame.
    
    	--dan'l

    >And why do you think all these foreigners are attending US
    >universities?  Because the US university educational system is
    >unquestionably the best in the world.  The very best foreign
    >students attend our universities and should do well compared to our
    >average students. 
    
    I've been led to believe that this is the opposite of the truth.  In
    the far east, the best students go to the local universities, which are
    extremely competitive.  It's the next cut, bright students who didn't
    make it into the small entrance classes and who can afford it who
    journey to America and acquit themselves quite well in the U.S.
    educational system.
    
    I don't know for a fact that this is the general case, but that's what
    was told to me from a few different sources.
    
    Dan

                                                             
    > There are too many alarmists running around making broad statements
    > that aren't backed up in reality.  How else do you explain the fact
    > that a country with less than 5% of the world's population year in and
    > year out wins more than half of the Nobel Prizes and is either first or
    > second in the number of patent awards?
    
    That's in a worldwide comparison where the huge majority come from
    underdeveloped, impoverished countries, which is not the kind of 
    comparison we should be making.  The only competition we face from 
    this population is that for cheap, unskilled labor and natural
    resources, markets we shouldn't even be in because they don't pay 
    and that we have no hope of dominating regardless.
    
    In comparison with Japan and most of Europe, our average students *are*
    lagging behind theirs.  That may have nothing to do with our university
    system, but it has plenty to do with our secondary system.  While Nobel 
    Prizes are nice, without application on a broad scale they mean
    nothing to large segments of our population.  To support a population
    of 225 million-plus, we've got to do a lot better job than we have been
    to bring *everyone* to an acceptable educational and therefore economic
    level.  And no one is going to convince me that at least through 
    secondary school we're all getting the same opportunity. 
    
    I honestly believe that with increased attention to minimal educational 
    standards we'd see a lot of the other problems we continue to throw
    outrageous dollars at (namely crime, drugs, welfare) recede.  If we can
    do it, it'd be a lot cheaper in the long run, too.
    
    I see no problem in mixing education with big-bucks athletics, though,
    as long as the proper standards are in place and cheaters are dealt
    with.  That's far from the case now, but there's no inherent hypocrisy
    in playing these games that many enjoy and the university making some
    money off of them, too.  If the return to the athlete is a legitimate
    educational opportunity, I think that the system is more than fair
    without resorting to professionalism in college athletics...
    
    glenn
     

 Excuse me but isn't the week the NCAA tournaments starts? Anyone going to
 any games? Will someone be able to report back live when the "choke" takes
 place?

true enough Hawk but this one has been beaten so bad all's that left is a
horseshoe....

 mike

    Sorry Mike but I gotta disagree.  When you've got a school that's a
    lock to win their 2nd NCAA Title in a row that hasn't graduated a 
    single athlete except for the coaches own son, well, I gotta put up 
    the red flag.
    
    To be honest I probably wouldn't be so upset except for the fact that
    they're so good and so utterly dominating.  They've put the rest of 
    the NCAA at a competitive disadvantage far worse than anything the 
    Japanese do!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Chris,
    
 You're conceding this thang to Vegas way too early.   They're going down.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    RE: .219
    
    See the Atlantic Monthly article "the case for more school days" Nov.
    1990.
    
    You are perpetuating a myth that is no longer true. 
    
    An international study in math and science has shown that the U.S. is
    far behind both the Far East and Europe in educational excellence. In
    fact our best students don't measure up to their average students. The
    study pointed out one basic reason for this. When comparing the test
    items to the curriculums of students taking the test it was found that 
    the countries that scored the highest covered more of the material.
    Japan, who averaged near the top, had covered 92% of the material.
    England/Wales covered 85% while averaging just below Japan. Hungary,
    which was below the median, covered 67%. Thailand, who finished just
    ahead of the U.S., covered 63%. The U.S., who finished dead last, 
    covered just 54% of the material. These test were given to 12th grade
    level students who had at least two years of algebra and one year of
    geometry and for science had a second year of chemistry,physics, or
    biology.
    
    In terms of qualifying students, Hungary qualified 50% of it's students
    for the test. The U.S. qualified only 13%.
    

    Mike, that article only addresses elementary and secondary education,
    not college level.

    
    The gentlemen in .219 referred to students entering college. The last
    time I looked that was the year after 12th grade. The problem needs to
    be addressed long before that. In fact we seem to do quite well with
    our counterparts at younger ages. It's the 8th to 12th grade level
    where we lose out in terms of covering a comprehensive curriculum.
    
    

    Yes, we revisit the topic of the correct relationship between academic
    achievement and athletics in our big-time college sports programs
    all the time.  Yes, we beat it to death.  But I feel pretty strongly
    that it's important to do, because it is symptomatic of some pretty
    big social problems in the US.
    
    For me, it comes down to a question of what I can do, personally,
    to redress the problems as I see them.  One of the ways I do that
    is by encouraging the high school athletes that I know who have
    the possibility/probability of getting athletic scholarships to
    view them in their proper light.  Athletics will be their part-time
    job while in school.  Athletics probably *won't* be their job after
    graduation, and they need to spend school time preparing for that
    reality.
    
    I also try to avoid contributing to what I see as the wrong-headed
    focus of big-time athletics.  This includes game scheduling which
    conflicts with normal college schedules and ticketing practices
    which shut out the student body in favor of "fat cat alums".  I
    simply don't watch games which hit my hot buttons on these points.
    
    Big-time college coaches have an academic responsibility to their
    players to the extent that games, travel schedules, and practices
    interfere with the student's ability to attend classes and complete
    homework assignments.  Practices need to be scheduled around classes,
    all too often kids are encouraged to schedule classes around practice.
    If *not* going to a tournament means your students attend their
    class, then don't go.  Tournaments scheduled during vacations are
    far more appropriate.  (Please consider that playing the NCAA's
    will mean a minimum of 2 days of classes missed for every team that
    plays, even with spring breaks occurring during this period of time.)
    
    Bottom line -- I feel very strongly that as a society, we need to
    provide minor leagues for the development of athletic talent, and
    return college sports to their original purpose of providing students
    an opportunity to play games.
    
    A&W

    Say what you will about the sleazy Tark, one thing he isn't is a bad
    basketball coach.  Tarkanian isn't the chokehorse that a Dean Smith, 
    Guy Lewis, John Thompson, or Billy Tubbs is when he has the talent.
    
    I don't think Tarkanian will let this team get into a position where
    they can lose.  I think they really want it, and with Tark's imminent
    ouster have placed themselves into a somewhat fraudulent, but very
    real, "us-against-the-world" mindset.  Not only will they win it, I
    think there's going to bodies strewn all along the highway to Indy.
    
    glenn
    

	It is interesting that the 2 teams that Tark has said were the only
	ones he feared are both out West -- Georgetown and Arizona.
	[He specifically has stated he does not fear the slow-down, deliberate
	teams, but those that have multiple shot blockers, such as the above
	two teams do have on the front line.]

    I also applaud your note A&W, but not much of the American public
    will.  In a time of tight money, in an era of the rich getting richer
    and the poor getting poorer, the middle class as usual gets the
    squeeze.  And when that happens, budgets get cut.  And when budgets
    get cut, non-revenue producing programs go.  In far too many schools
    across the country, special programs for the gifted, the wave of the
    future ten years ago, were sitting ducks for the ax-wielding taxpayers.
    But would they cut football?  Of course not.  Overcrowded, unaccredited
    high schools with fewer chances for educational growth are the rule not
    the exception in America today, and the bottom-line, myopic, me-first
    generation that Ronald Reagan spawned and nurtured just doesn't care.
    
    So when Bill Weld cuts the state education budget by $270 million, rest
    assured it's not just "fat" that is being trimmed - it's programs that
    make our youth better students and, later, more productive citizens.
    Athletics as an avenue of success is a legitimate refuge in a sea of
    mediocrity, and if a student-athlete must miss a week of class to go
    to a basketball tournament, it's no big deal - the education the
    American public supplies for him isn't that hot anyway.
    
    NAZZ

    Nazz,
    
    The problem you outline is exactly what I talked to my sister about
    last night.  She lives in one of the downstate NY counties, and I
    called to see how things are.  Well, she said they were preparing for a
    rally against school cuts.
    
    Well, guess what's being cut:  Interscholastic sports, bus
    transportation, library services (yep, close the library, fire the
    librarians - kids don't need books....), non-sports extra-curricular
    activities (Drama, band, debate club, etc....), and 'special' courses
    (accelerated programs...)
    
    JD
    
    PS.  As a side note, in both high school and college, non-revenue
    producing sports, such as track and field, gymnastics, field hockey,
    tennis, etc., are being phased out.   I think I read where the
    University of Houston is phasing out many of their programs, and that
    their hoop teams were going to drop down to NAIA level.  ANyone else
    hear that??

    I don't think it was the University of Houston but Houston Baptist but
    overall, I agree with JD and Nazz.
    
    The spectre of separating the Catholic schools from the Publics in the
    Mass high school hockey tournament has come up yet again and I think
    the Catholics are continuing to dominate in hockey for many of the same
    reasons Nazz listed.  If a parent has the money to prep a kid for
    hockey (which is damned expensive), then that parent has the money to
    send him to a Catholic or Private High School.  I know now if I had
    kids, I wouldn't send any of them to public schools because the support
    is eroding so much.  I wouldn't even send a kid to the State University
    system anymore, much as it pains me to say it, because of the budget
    cutbacks.  I can hardly justify recommending anyone *FOR MY OWN ALMA
    MATER* because the state university system has been so badly raped. 
    And I thought Dukakis was bad and Silber would have been bad ....
    
    John
    
    PS - discussion of high school hockey should really go over in the high
    school note, if it gets rolling

    Thanks for the applause.
    
    My note addressed college-level sports.  High school sports is a
    different, though related subject.  I'll take my comments/perspective
    on *that* rat's nest over to the High School Sports note.  :-)
    
    A&W

    FINAL PITT 76
    GEOGRGIA 68
    
    DUKE 103
    NE LOUSI. 73
    
    OSU 67
    NEW MEXICO  54
    

    re-1,
    
    	thanks! keep them coming!
    
    B.A.

    Seton Hall beat Pepperdine, 72-52.
    Iowa beat East Tennessee State, 76-73.
    NC State beat Southern Mississippi, something like 113-84.
    Kansas beat New Orleans, I think it was 65-59.
    

    Arizona, Indiana and RICHMOND are all winners...X
    
    

    
    Chokexcuse(tm) does it again!!! HA HA HA!! Will they be callin' for
    Baywhine's(tm) head? Me thinks so! What an upset!
    
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    	Who won the Nebraska/Xavier game?

    Syracuse is unbelievable.  I can understand taking a team too lightly
    or being flat, but I can't understand such a complete lack of 
    discipline down the stretch.  What, did Boeheim take one timeout in the
    last five minutes?  Seems that that National article was extremely
    well-timed.
    
    Gotta tip my hat to that Penny kid from Coastal Carolina.  He was
    phenomenal.  Had anyone in here heard of him or of his potential future
    prospects?
    
    glenn
    

    I don't have the scores but in the late games last night, Xavier,
    Indiana, Richmond and Arizona all won.
    
    John

RECAPS for Mar 14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



(2) DUKE 102, (17) NE LOUISIANA 73
---------------------------------- 

Christian Laettner scored eight of his 22 points during a 23-6
run in the second half that carried sixth seed Duke to a 102-73
rout of Northeast Louisiana in the N-C-A-A Midwest regional at
Minneapolis.  Duke led, 51-50, early in the second half and
blew the game open with its run.  Laettner hit three baskets
and two foul shots as the Blue Devils took a 60-52 lead.
Thomas Hill and Billy McCaffrey connected on three-point shots
and Duke roared out to a 74-56 lead.  Hill had 18 points for
Duke and McCaffrey added 17.  Anthony Jones, playing despite a
back injury, led Northeast Louisiana with 24 points.  Northeast
Louisiana had won 16 consecutive games before the loss to Duke. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(6) PITTSBURGH 76, (11) GEORGIA 68 (OT)
---------------------------------------

Brian Shorter scored a game-high 23 points, including four in
overtime, and Sean Miller hit four free throws in the final
minute as Pittsburgh rallied to beat Georgia, 76-68, in a first
round game at the N-C-A-A Southeast Regional at Louisville,
Kentucky.  Georgia led by 10 points with 14 minutes to play,
but the Panthers narrowed the gap as little used Tim Glover
came off the bench to can four three-pointers.  Pittsburgh
tied the game at 66-66 on a three-point jumper by Jason Matthews 
with 24 seconds left in regulation and Shorter, who had 17 
second-half points, scored the first points of overtime to
give the Panthers the lead for good.  Matthews extended the lead 
to four points with a pair of free throws and, after Georgia 
closed to 70-68, Miller sank four straight foul shots to ice the 
game.  Georgia missed all five of its free throws in overtime.
Glover finished with 12 points and Miller and Matthews had 10 
apiece as Pittsburgh, seeded sixth in the Southeast, improved 
to 21-11 and advanced to the second round.  Marshall Wilson led 
Georgia with 22 points and Jody Patton added 14.  Patton was
playing in place of Litterial Green, Georgia's leading scorer,
who sat out the game due to a broken left hand.  The Bulldogs
finished the season with a 17-13 record.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(3) OKLAHOMA ST 67, (14) NEW MEXICO 54
-------------------------------------- 

Byron Houston scored 21 points and pulled down 17 rebounds
to spark third-seed Oklahoma State to a 67-54 victory over
New Mexico in the N-C-A-A East Regional at College Park,
Maryland.  Houston's basket early in the second half gave
Oklahoma State a 30-28 lead and the Cowboys never trailed after
that.  They went on a 10-0 run to go up 45-34 and built their
lead to 49-35 with just over eight minutes left.  The victory
was Oklahoma State's first in N-C-A-A tournament play since
1965.  The Cowobys won despite hitting on only 21 of 62 shots.
Luc Longley, New Mexico's 7-2 center, led the Lobos with 16
points 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(3) SETON HALL 71, (14) PEPPERDINE 51
-------------------------------------

Terry Dehere scored a game-high 26 points and led a decisive
second-half spurt as 13th ranked Seton Hall crushed Pepperdine,
71-51, in a first round game at the N-C-A-A West Regional at
Salt Lake City, Utah.  Dehere scored the final seven points of
a 14-0 run which enabled the Pirates to open up a 21-point
lead.  Seton Hall led by as many as 17 points in the first
half, but saw Pepperdine, which had won its previous 16 games,
close within two points in the early minutes of the second
half.  Anthony Avent added 13 points as Seton Hall, the
third seed in the West Regional, improved to 23-8 on the season.
Pepperdine fell to 22-9.  The Waves were playing without Doug
Christie, their leading scorer, who was sidelined by torn
cartilage in his knee.  Geoff Lear led Pepperdine with 14
points.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(6) NO CAROLINA ST 114, (11) SO MISSISSIPPI 85
---------------------------------------------- 

Chris Corchiani and Rodney Monroe scored 25 points each to lead
sixth seed North Carolina State to a 114-85 rout of Southern
Mississippi in the Eastern Regional at College Park, Maryland.
Corchiani hit seven of eight shots and handed out 11 assists to
send the Wolfpack to the second round against Oklahoma State.
Corchiani hit his first six shots and was 3-for-3 from
three-point range.  Migjen Bakalli of the Wolfpack hit all six
of his three-point shots.  Corchiani and Monroe combined for 15
points during a 23-6 run in the second half that broke the game
open after Southern Mississippi moved to within four points at
56-52.  Darrin Chancellor had 24 points to lead Southern
Mississippi and Clarence Weatherspoon had 21 points and 12
rebounds.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(3) KANSAS 55, (14) NEW ORLEANS 49
----------------------------------

Mark Randall's layup early in the second half gave Kansas the
lead for good and the 12th ranked Jayhawks held on to beat New
Orleans, 55-49, in a first round game at the Southeast Regional
in Louisville, Kentucky.  Kansas, seeded third in the region,
will meet Pittsburgh in the second round on Saturday.  The game
was tied 26-26 at the half, but Randall scored to give the
Jayhawks a 32-30 lead.  Kansas then went on a 17-5 spurt to 
open up a 14-point lead.   The Privateers rallied late and
closed within three at 52-49 with 58 seconds left, but were
unable to score the rest of the way.  Mike Maddox led Kansas,
which improved to 23-7, with 12 points and Randall added 10.
Ervin Johnson had 13 points and 14 rebounds for New Orleans 
and Tank Collins also scored 13 points.  The Privateers finished
the season at 23-8.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(7) IOWA 76, (10) E TENNESSEE ST 73
-----------------------------------

James Moses hit a pair of free throws with less than three 
seconds left to seal the victory as Iowa beat 17th ranked East 
Tennessee State, 76-73, at the Midwest Regional at Minneapolis.
Iowa led by five late in the game, but three-pointers by East
Tennessee State's Keith Jennings and Jerry Pelphrey cut the
lead to 74-73.  Moses than hit two free throws and the Hawkeyes
fouled Major Geer, sending him to the line for a one-and-one 
with less than a second to go.  Geer missed the first free throw
and the clock ran out.  Rodney English, who scored a game-high
25 points, scored two baskets during a 12-1 run which gave
East Tennessee State a 61-56 lead with more than seven minutes
to play.  Iowa then countered with a 7-0 spurt to take the lead
for good.  Acie Earl had 18 points for the Hawkeyes, who will
meet Duke in the second round.  Iowa, which improved to 21-10
on the season, kept East Tennessee State scoreless for a 5 1/2
minute stretch of the second half and held Jennings, the
Buccaneers' leading scorer to just 11 points.  East Tennessee
State finished the season with a 28-5 mark.



WEST REGIONAL
(AT SALT LAKE CITY, UT)
=======================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(11) CREIGHTON 64, (6) NEW MEXICO ST 56
---------------------------------------

Chad Gallagher scored 18 points to lead Creighton to a 64-56 
victory over New Mexico State in the first round of the 
Western Regional at Salt Lake City.  Duan Cole scored four of
his 17 points in the final 76 seconds to preserve Creighton's
first victory in the tournament since 1974.  Bob Harstad added
13 points and 16 rebounds to help Creighton to its eighth 
straight win and 16th in its last 17 games.  Randy Brown was
the only New Mexico State player in double figures with 12
points -- all in the second half.  The 56 points were the 
fewest by the Aggies this season.  Creighton will play Seton
Hall in the second round on Saturday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(10) TEMPLE 80, (7) PURDUE 63
----------------------------- 

Mik Kilgore scored 25 points to lead Temple to an 80-63 victory
over Purdue in the opening round of the Eastern Regional at 
College Park, Maryland.  Mark Macon had 19 points and Vic 
Carstarphen added 18 for Temple, which shot a season-high 65.2
percent from the field.  Jimmy Oliver led Purdue with 21 
points.  Temple will play Richmond, a surprising 73-69 winner 
over Syracuse, in the second round.  Temple never trailed after
taking a 16-13 lead early in the first half and expanded the 
advantage to 13 points in the second half.  However, Purdue 
chipped away and pulled within five, 68-63, with 3:38 remaining 
on a three-point shot by Travis Trice.  But Temple closed the game 
with a 12-0 run to pull away.  The Owls were eight-for-eight from 
the line in the final two minutes.


SOUTHEAST REGIONAL
(AT LOUISVILLE, KY)
===================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(7) FLORIDA ST 75, (10) USC 72
------------------------------ 

Douglas Edwards had 24 points and 10 rebounds to lead Florida
State to a 75-72 triumph over Southern California in the opening
round of the Southeast Regional at Louisville, Kentucky.  Florida
State will play Indiana in the second round Saturday night.
U-S-C star Harold Miner, a two-time Pacific 10 Player of the Year,
hit only 7 of 27 shots from the field and finished with 16 points.
Miner entered the tournament averaging nearly 24 points a game.
Edwards opened the second half with a pair of three-point plays
to help the Seminoles take a 50-40 lead with 17 minutes left.
U-S-C went on an 8-0 run later in the half to pull within 55-52,
but were unable to move any closer.  Florida State rebuilt the
lead to 10 points, 69-59, with four minutes remaining.  Robert
Pack led U-S-C with 20 points and Ronnie Coleman added 15.


MIDWEST REGIONAL
(AT MINNEAPOLIS, MN)
====================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




SIENA 90, FAIRLEIGH DICKINSON 85
--------------------------------

Marc Brown scored 31 points to Siena to a 90-85 victory over
Fairleigh Dickinson in a first-round N-I-T game at Albany.
Doremus Bennerman made three free throws in the final 63 seconds
to seal the game.  The Saints built a lead of 14 points in the
second half, but F-D-U rallied to tie the score at 80-80 on a
jump shot by Desi Wilson with 3:39 to play.  Marc Brown and 
junior guard Mike Brown, who scored 20 points, rallied Siena
down the stretch for the win.  Wilson collected 28 points and
eight rebounds for F-D-U.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




FORDHAM 76, SOUTH FLORIDA 66
----------------------------

Fordham scored the last 15 points of the game to rally for a
76-66 win against South Florida in a first-round N-I-T game
at Tampa.  Dave Buckner started the run with his sixth 
three-pointer and finished with 25 points as the Rams shot
77.8 percent from the field in the second half.  Damon Lopez
scored 16 points and Jean Prioleau added 14 for Fordham, which
raised its record to 25-7 -- tops among any team not selected
for the N-C-A-A.  Radenko Dobras and Bobby Russell had 16 points
apiece to pace South Florida.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(10) BYU 61, (7) VIRGINIA 48
----------------------------

Shawn Bradley broke an N-C-A-A Tournament record with 10 
blocked shots and Brigham Young defeated Virginia, 61-48,
in the opening round of the West Regional at Salt Lake City,
Utah.  Bradley, a 7-foot-6 freshman, also altered numerous
shots as Virginia managed a season-low 28 percent shooting
from the field.  Bradley started a decisive 15-4 second half 
run with a basket and capped it with two free throws as the
Cougars built a 41-33 advantage with 7:30 remaining.  Bradley
finished the game with eight points.  Gary Trost scored all
13 of his points in the second half for Brigham Young, which
will play Arizona in the second round Saturday.  Virginia's
John Crotty led all scorers with 20 points.  Bryant Stith
added 13 for the Cavaliers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(11) CONNECTICUT 79, (6) LSU 62
-------------------------------

Chris Smith scored 25 points and Shaquille O'Neal was held
in check by a stingy defense as Connecticut defeated L-S-U
in the N-C-A-A Midwest Regional at Minneapolis.  O'Neal did
score 27 points and grab 16 rebounds, but looked rusty in
his first game since suffering a hairline fracture in his
left leg on February 27.  He missed eight of first 13 shots
and scored 14 of his points after the Huskies built a comfortable
22-point lead.  Rod Sellers collected 13 points and 10 rebounds
for U-Conn, which had been disputing its low seed in the region.
Connecticut trailed 21-20 with five minutes left in the first
half when Scott Burrell hit a three-pointer to start a spurt that 
resulted in a 36-25 halftime lead.  The Huskies then broke the game 
open with a 15-4 run at the start of the second half.  Connecticut
will play Xavier of Ohio in the second round Saturday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OKLAHOMA 111, TULSA 86
----------------------

Kermit Holmes poured in 28 points to lead Oklahoma past in-state
rival Tulsa, 111-86, in a first-round N-I-T game in Norman.  Brent
Price added 24 points and Jeff Webster 22 as the Sooners raced to
a 19-point halftime lead and cruised home in the second half. 
Marcell Gordon netted a game-high 32 points for Tulsa, which
hasn't won in the postseason since capturing the 1981 N-I-T
Championship.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




SW MISSOURI STATE 57, COPPIN STATE 47
-------------------------------------

Darryl Reid scored 14 points and Southwest Missouri State outscored
Coppin State 15-6 during the final 6:25 en route to a 57-47 victory
in a first-round N-I-T game at Springfield, Missouri.  Reid hit a
backet and four free throws as Southwest Missouri stretched a 
38-37 lead with 7:52 remaining into a 51-40 lead just just over 
three minutes to play.  Arnold Bernard added 11 points and six
assists for the Bears.  Larry Stewart scored a game-high 20 points
to lead Coppin State.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




MEMPHIS ST 82, ALA BIRMINGHAM 76
--------------------------------

Elliot Perry scored 24 points to lead Memphis State to an
82-76 victory over Alabama-Birmingham in a first round 
N-I-T game.  After Alabama-Birmingham took a 68-66 lead
with 5:40 remaining, Memphis State scored the next seven 
points to take a 73-68 lead.  Alabama-Birmingham moved 
within 75-74, but Perry converted a three-point play with
1:10 remaining and the Blazers were unable to move any 
closer.  Elbert Rogers led Alabama-Birmingham with 24 points.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




ARKANSAS ST 78, RICE 71
-----------------------

Bobby Gross scored 17 of his 22 points in the second half and
DeWayne McCray added 20 to lead Arkansas State to a 78-71 
victory over Rice in the first round of the N-I-T.  Brent
Scott topped Rice with 21 points and Dana Hardy added 19.
Gross was six-for-six from the field in the second half 
and hit four key free throws down the stretch.  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(15) RICHMOND 73, (2) SYRACUSE 69
---------------------------------

Curtis Blair scored 18 points to lead Richmond to a stunning
73-69 upset of Syracuse in the opening round of the East
Regional at College Park, Maryland.  Richmond, winner of the
Colonial Conference, will play Temple Saturday afternoon in
the second round.  It marked the first time ever that a 15 seed
has knocked off a second seed in the N-C-A-A Tournament.  No
top seed or second seed had lost in the opening round of the
tournament since the field was expanded to 64 teams in 1985.
Terry Connolly added 14 points off the bench for Richmond,
which led throughout the game.  Syracuse rallied from a 10-point
second half deficit to pull within one, 70-69, on a running 
one-handed jumper by Billy Owens.  Syracuse then fouled Eugene
Burroughs with 21 seconds left, but the freshman made both 
free throws to give the Spiders a 72-69 advantage.  Syracuse
missed a pair of three-pointers in the closing seconds and
Blair added a free throw for Richmond with seven-tenths of a
second remaining.  Billy Owens led Syracuse with 22 points.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(2) ARIZONA 93, (15) ST FRANCIS PA 80
-------------------------------------

Matt Othick scored a career-high 25 points and Chris Mills 
added 21 to lead Arizona to a 93-80 triumph over St. Francis
of Pennsylvania in the opening round of the West regional at
Salt Lake City.  Arizona will play Brigham Young Saturday
in the second round.  Othick scored 19 of his 25 points in
the first half when Arizona built a 43-29 lead.  St. Francis
made five three-pointers to start the second half and closed
to within 54-46 after Mike Fink hit a short jumper with 13:47
remaining.  But Arizona went on an 8-2 spurt, including 
consecutive three-point plays by Sean Rooks and Mills, to open
a 62-48 lead.  The Wildcats led by as many as 17 points, 72-55,
in the second half.  Joe Anderson led St. Francis with 29 
points and Mike Iuzzolino had 20.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




(14) XAVIER OH 89, (3) NEBRASKA 84
----------------------------------

Jamie Gladden scored 20 points and backcourt partner Jamal 
Walker added 18 as Xavier of Ohio upset Nebraska, 89-84,
in the opening round of the Midwest regional at Minneapolis.
Xavier will play Connecticut in Saturday's second round.
The Musketeers, who are making their sixth straight N-C-A-A
Tournament appearance under head coach Pete Gillen, sealed
the win by making five free throws in the final 47 seconds.
Michael Davenport had 17 points and Brian Grant contributed
15 for Xavier, which advanced to the Final 16 a year ago.
Seven-foot center Rich King led Nebraska with 25 points,
but was held to nine points in the second half.  Tony 
Farmer and Carl Hayes added 15 points apiece for the 
Cornhuskers.  With the game tied at 74-74, Grant converted
three free throws and Gladden hit a breakaway layup with
3:44 to go.  After Eric Piatkowski made a three-pointer for
Nebraska, Grant hit another free throw and Davenport connected
on a three-pointer to give Xavier an 84-79 advantage.

    
    Only caught bits 'n pieces
    
    At one point, SJU has a 23 point lead early in the 2nd half.
    
    Northern Ill. closed to within 6 with a minute or two to go.
    
    I think they may have gotten a bit closer but ran out of time.
    
    Congrat's LOUIEEE
    

    Penn State has an 8 pt lead with 1:57 to go
    
    They are playing UCLA
    
    Nittn'y lions have uncanny shooting 2nd half w/ great defensive
    play.
    

    
    Hang in there, Lions!  With Eastern Michigan upsetting Mississippi 
    St. (probably not that big of a deal, actually), Bruce Parkhill and 
    company might be able to swing a date with Smif's boys next week.
    Wouldn't that be fun...
    
    glenn (*future* Big 10 Bigot, I suppose...)
    

    The CBS coverage is unbelieveble terrible.  MFAH is what they are.
    
    They ignore close games, local interest games, or anything else of
    interest.  Whoever is deciding what games to cover, and when to switch
    games is clueless as to what's going on.  They cover blowouts, leave
    games when big leads start disappearing, ignore upsets.
    
    Some of the commitators don't know the 1st thing about basketball.
    During the UNLV game, one the annoucers made the comment to the effect
    that with all the hype about UNLV's bigtime offense that the defense
    has gone unnoticed by the players and media.  What rock did this guy
    crawl out from under?
    
    For all the talk about the great techincal feats by CBS, I could swear
    that on multiple occations, CBS has flashed wrong game score when duing
    tourny updates.  I mean, several times I'm possitive they had the
    scores switched and list the wrong team winning.  Anybody else notice
    that or am I going cross-eyed?
    
    How can we get rid of this F*** Up network and get ESPN back!!!
    
    Commander Sco

    I was able to get WFAN Thursday around 6 and Chris Russo was talking
    to Francessa during one of his breaks on CBS.  He was merciless about
    how bad it was.  Francessa sounded concerned and said he would relay
    the comments back, but had no idea what "the viewers" were seeing
    because he was in the studio.  Russo talked about the 4-at-1 screens,
    seeing limited amounts of some early round games and missing key
    possesions down the stretch.  From the way it sounded, they got better,
    but it's still bad...
    
    -Walt

    The worst thing I found about the four-games-at-once scenario was that
    they always switched to the last two or three minutes of other games
    once the "main" game was over.  So all you got to see of these other
    games was two or three minutes of one team fouling to put the other
    team on the line.  Very boring.
    
    	--dan'l

 and they's leave close games with exciting finishes to go back to main games.
 rediculous. yesterday leaving the end of the penn st/ e. michigan game to
 go back to the redmen texas game which still had over 10 minutes left and
 SJU up 10...

 bad

    I thought CBS did much better in round 2,partly because they had
    experience with that format. Round 1 was a disaster most notably
    missing Steve Smith's buzzer beating heroics.
    
    They should really bite the bullet and let ESPN do the first round. I
    don't think anybody would hold it against them if they did. The first
    round is a nonstop 12 hour event that cannot be interrupted by
    dinnertime news!!
    
    A few things I hated about the announcing: When someone would say
    A)"That's the best performance I've seen this year" --What does that
    mean? How much has he seen ? Do a lot of these guys even watch much
    college ball? 
    
    B) "They're not giving up" What team would throw in the towel?
    
    Re: WFAN - Ted Shaker of CBS was supposed to be a guest with Russo on
    Saturday,but backed out. He's supposed to join "Mad Dog" and Francesca
    today.
    
    One funny incident. Just as Francesca was commenting on how surprised
    he was that Utah was only 7 down against Southern Alabama and expected
    the UTes to be blown out,Russo gave him the word that Utah had run off
    the first 12 points of the second half.

    
    The incredible thing is that CBS loses its shirt on the first round
    action.  Their ratings were far below all other network prime-time 
    shows.  I guess they justify their exclusivity based on a delta 
    where they would have been competing against (ABC + ESPN), 
    subsidiaries of the same conglomerate.  Doesn't do much for the fans,
    though...
    
    I was irked when parts of the Penn State overtime were missed, and
    where CBS for some unknown reason insisted on showing the four screens
    in the final seconds when the other game of interest was in a timeout,
    the third game was in the first half, and the fourth was at halftime or
    something.  I can understand that CBS can't predict the future outcome
    of close games, but when the action is right in front of their faces
    what's the problem?  These guys manage a dozen camera angles during a
    football game; they should be to handle four sites where nothing's
    going on in two of them...
    
    glenn

 I gotta tell ya, boys, this past weekend confirmed the sheer brilliance
 (ha ha!) of my decision a year ago to buy the new home in upstate South
 Carolina with the 12' satellite dish already planted in the back yard.
 
 I had full range of all the games at any time.   I gave that remote
 control thingie a major league workout.   Hmmm, Carolina's beating
 Villanova, click, let's see Wake against Alabama, click, over to Ga Tech
 and Ohio State.
 
 Not too shabby ..
 
 Bob Hunt

    Cut it out, Bob, or I'm a-comin' down to S. Carolina and takin' your
    dish hostage!
    
    Dan

    	How about all the commercials.  Unlike baseball they know how
    many games will be played and are stuffing commercials at every
    opportunity to make up for the huge loss in televising baseball.
    If I see Packer selling Oldsmobiles one more time I'll smash the
    TV!
    
    				/Don

    I'm glad ASU didn't let Arkansas embarrass them.  At least they're on
    the right path back to respectability.
    
    Mike

    re: .259  (dish)
    
    I here ya Ketch.  That dish of yours is truly a thing of beauty.  
    
    Of course the Carolina-'Nova game was preempted here in Atlanta in
    favor of Tech-OSU but, thanks to technology, I was able to go down
    to a sports bar that shows *all* available UNC games.  The place
    was jam-packed with Carolina fans.  Needless to say a good time was
    had by all!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    CBS has been aweful.  The 4 screen split is nexted to useless.  And who
    is that chick, Mitzi Gaynor or whatever, down in the southeast.  She's
    *HORRIBLE* - if she said one more time "Arkansas doesn't have the fire
    in their eyes" I was going to go down to Georgia and rip her lungs out.
    
    Commercials!  ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.  The same ones, over and
    over and over and over.  Hey, the women's Final four is in 2 weeks!
    BFD!!!  
    
    The HORROR!
    
    JD

I second the nomination of Bill Walton and Mitzi (ditzy) as the worst announcers
of Hoop ever. If Bill says "the ref should swallow the whistle and let the boys 
play" after another brutal hacking foul again I'll personally fly to whereever he
is at and feed him a whistle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ugh.....


I was bummed when Princeton Lost....guess I'll have to root for Indiana now. I
love watching them play. 

If UNC doesn't make it to the final 4 this year then it will be the ultimate
choke job. 

Didn't get to watch any games yesterday...St patties day festivities take 
precedence over hoop....


O'Metz

But Walton did have that great comment during the Indiana-Florida
State game about the FSU player who was in the locker room with
some kind of stomach flu.  "This is the NCAA tournament.  You
can't be spending your time in the locker room.  They've got to
go in there and stick something down his throat to make him puke
it up, so he can get out there and play."

Laker_Ken

>But Walton did have that great comment during the Indiana-Florida
>State game about the FSU player who was in the locker room with
>some kind of stomach flu.  "This is the NCAA tournament.  You
>can't be spending your time in the locker room.  They've got to
>go in there and stick something down his throat to make him puke
>it up, so he can get out there and play."


Oh no!  You don't want the locker room to smell like Hurl Whiff do
you!?

    
    	Geez, I remember when ESPN was just starting out and people would
    say, "what's that?"  Now, ESPN is near the top in televising most
    sports, but when it comes/came to the NCAA, they are simply the best,
    hands down.
    
    	Count me as another that thought CBS did a real hack job on the
    available games.  Instead of just switching to the best game down the
    stretch, they always went to the "control center" which told us, "Now
    we're going to send you out to x."  
    
    	I would also agree that they stuck with the blow outs to long 
    especially when there were other games that were closer.  In my area,
    they stuck with Arkansas/Arizona St even though Arkansas had the game
    wrapped up with under a minute to play.
    
    	One thing ESPN did/does well was to shift close games when one game
    went to a TO.  They would switch rather than jump to a commercial.  CBS
    on the other hand, simply goes to a commercial.
    
    	For my money, I'd like to have ESPN back in the saddle...at least
    we wouldn't get reminded every minute about the upcoming features on
    60 minutes!
    
    								bill..g.
    

Not enough instant replays! 

Stupid moves: Watching BYU v Arizona.  They leave the game to go to Nova
v NC..... no problem, right? Except that the game hasn't started yet, so
we spend the next 20 minutes listening to a couple of Dork talking heads
instead of watching hoops.  The announcers are not so interesting that
they couldn't save up their comments for the game, when I can
concentrate on the action and tune them out.

I haven't been rooting for anyone in particular, so I don't think it's
bias, but I am getting the distinct impression that in the games I've
seen so far, when the whistle goes off, the Refs have a 50% chance of
being wrong. Everybody screws up a call now and then, but this is
ridiculous.

RE: Analysis

Even ESPN sucks. I'd like to see Vitale and the Vulva spend less time
acting cute and trying to give Italian-Americans a bad name, and more
time analyzing the plays and on-court moves of the various teams.

Mike JN

> Even ESPN sucks. I'd like to see Vitale and the Vulva spend less time
> acting cute and trying to give Italian-Americans a bad name, and more
> time analyzing the plays and on-court moves of the various teams.
    
    Right on here!  I've heard a lot of people complementing these two for
    their camera presence and whatnot, but they're downright embarassing
    when put together in the same studio.  Valvano's bringing back 
    memories of his role in that "Lighter Side of Sports" thing a couple 
    of years ago.  And that business with Bill Cosby last weekend on the
    tournament selection show was one of the biggest wastes of fifteen 
    minutes of sports air time I've ever seen.  The two buffoons begging
    the Coz for a spot on his show was pathetic...
    
    glenn
     

    
    re: .274/Mike
    
    	I'm curious as to why you feel 50% of the time the ref's could be
    wrong, and about the fact that "this is getting ridiculous."  Can you
    get specific?  Are you making a statement from what the announcers are
    making?  If so, you're in trouble right away.  
    
    	BTW, Mr. Bball himself, Billy Packer justified himself as being a
    know-nothing by incorrectly stating in the Princeton/Nova game that
    if the Nova player had hit the ball while the Princeton player was 
    attempting a throwin, it would of been a violation/T.  Wrongo, this 
    year the rule was changed.  When the Princeton player held the ball
    over the endline, the Nova player could of hit the ball out of his
    hands and it would of been a legal play.  Last year it would of been
    a T.  This year, if the ball is held "inbounds" by the inbounding 
    player, the ball is fair game.
    
    	When it gets down to it, it's really amazing how little these guys
    really know about the rules.  I still get a laugh at the goaltending
    calls.  Half of them are basket interference and not goaltending, but
    few realize that there is a difference between the two.  But, the
    block/charge call still takes all the cake.  This call is so incredibly
    mis-understood that it's beyond laughable....actually, it's sad.  And
    yet these people are supposed to be informed.  Makes me wonder just 
    how good an analyst they can be if they don't even know the rules.
    
    
    								bill..g.
    

    Beent Mooseburger doen't know that loose a rebound after a shot
    isn't a turnover!!!  You have to have possession Beent!  Go back
    to football!!!!
    
    Penn State guy is injured.  Let's watch him writhe in pain.  Keep 
    the camera on him while the medical people attend to him.  Show a
    replay or two.  Watch the guy struggle to get up.  See limp slowly
    limp all the way to the other end of the court.  BUT DON'T SHOW US
    THE LAST MINUTE OF THE UTAH-PENN STATE GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Florida State - USC, two minutes left, FSU up by three with the ball
    in the frontcourt.  LET'S GO TO SOME COMMERICALS!!!!!!!!!!!!  IN THE
    MIDDLE OF THE POSSESSION!!!!!!!!!  We come back two minutes later,
    the announcers don't know we've seen the insufferable Billy Packer
    plugging Olds for the sixty bizillionth time, so they don't give us
    a recap.  A USC guy is on the line.  Who is he?  What's the score?
    How much time is left?  We don't know, 'cuz CBS DOESN'T TELL US!!!!!
    
    Hmmmm Murray Stae down by 15 with 3 minutes left?  Everyone in New
    England cares deeply about Murray, so let's watch this game to the
    very end, and get an indepth analysis.  SO WHAT IF THREE OTHER GAMES
    ARE GOING ON!?!?!?!?!  LET'S SEE PEOPLE FILE OUT OF THE ARENA!!!!!!
    
    NAZZ

Mostly I was referring to a fact that I noticed when watching with somebody
else. Always more fun, and you usually discuss the calls and plays more,
so you remember them better.
Something that happened a LOT:
Guy drives to the hoop, goes up, whistle blows.... foul. I'd say `jeez,
that didn't look like a foul'. Replay. The guy was never touched. The
Refs ASSUMED the foul. My comment re: 50% was exaggeration (this is okay
for me to do... but not other people... okay?)
I also didn't think consistency of calls was the best. It seemed to be
pretty hit and miss as far as calling Traveling, and what kind of
contact away from the ball was acceptable. Most games I saw DID seem to
have pretty fair consistency as to how the Blocking Fouls vs Charging
were called.

Also.... Alonzo Mourning. He is a whiner, and when things don't go his
way, he really takes some vicious shots at people. When he fouled out,
Johnson waving bye-bye was great. Johnson shouldn't have got the T. In
fact, if he had flipped him the bird and said `So long, asshole' I still
wouldn't have given him the T.

Re: end line play:  Doesn't the defensive player have to give the person
doing the inbounding a certain amount of room? I know he can't reach
across the end line and slap at the ball, but I thought he had to give
some room as well.

Mike JN

    Brent Musberger doesn't work for CBS anymore, and hasn't since last
    April.
    
    John

    RE: the Princeton-Nova play at the end.  I understand why the block
    the Nova player ran through (no gain for either team).  But if the
    Princeton player is facing the endline as if to get the pass, would
    that be a no-call?  We have some part-time refs in here, right?

For any Dudes or Dudettes who are following the NIT:

 SAGARIN'S POWER RATINGS

1	Colorado	35
2	Oklahoma	38
3	West Virginia	46
4	Providence	47
5	Stanford	52
6	Cincinnati	55
7	Massachusetts	57
8	So. Illinois	61
9	Wisconsin	63
10	Siena		65

Others:
	Memphis State	81
	Arkansas St	87
	SW Missouri St	89
	South Carolina	92
	Fordham		96
	Wyoming 	101

I'm not sure how these things work. Is it the lower the better? The
reason I ask, Colorado - with a 35, just kicked Wyoming's butt - and
they had a 101.

???????
Mike JN

    
    Nova/Princeton
    
    	The no-call at the end of the Princeton game was correct.  In fact
    it was an excellent no-call.  On the replay from the other end of the 
    court, the Princeton player had excellent position but he flopped when
    the Nova guy touched him.  Also, the Nova player pulled up just before
    making contact which indicated that the Princeton player really didn't
    get hit hard enough to be knocked down.  Anyway, I thought the actual
    play was a great one in trying to draw the foul.
    
    re: endline 
    
    	The inbounding player only gets room if there is no room behind
    him.  As the inbounding player on designated throw-in spot, the player
    cannot move laterally or forward, but he may move backward.  Bet you
    weekend warriors didn't know that.  So, the inbounding player is only
    given room if he cannot move backwards.  Other than that, the defensive
    player can get right up on the endline.  It's the responsibility of the
    inbounding player to move backwards....of course the inbounding player
    must know that he is allowed to move backwards.  Gee, I wonder how
    many coaches know that you can move on a designated throw-in spot, and
    teach it?  
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Sorry about Beent.  I meant, of course, Dick Stockboy.
    
    NAZZ

    The CBS coverage is terrible.
    
    I had to sit through PSU/EMU, which I could care less about. 
    Fortunately, I was able to follow the Redmen/Texas on radio.
    
    I wonder how CBS is going to screw me on Friday evening.
    
    GO REDMEN.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Speaking of CBS' terrible coverage, there was something else I was
    wondering.  What if your local team was playing in one of the 1st-round
    games that started at about 5pm eastern time on either Thursday or
    Friday?  The 2 games I'm referring to were the Creighton-NMSU and the
    S.Alabama-Utah games.  Did you just get screwed and miss it, or would
    CBS stay on the air in your area?  I notice they scheduled low-profile
    teams in both those games.
    
    Joe

    OK, OK, so it's not the NCAA, but UMass has gotten past the second
    round of the NIT for the first time ever with a 78-74 win at Fordham
    last night.  The Minutemen play at Siena tomorrow night for a chance to
    go to the semifinals in Madison Square Garden next Monday night.  Other
    quarterfinal pairings are:
    
    Tonight:	Oklahoma at Providence
    Thurs:	Stanford at Southern Illinois
    		Arkansas State at Colorado
    
    John

    Ditto for the Redmen two years ago (in the NIT).
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Did anyone else see the article in SI a couple weeks ago regarding the
Hank Gathers situation?   The person who came out looking the best in the
whole matter was Paul Westhead... the rest of the bunch: the family, the
lawyers, Bo Kimble, and Hank himself all came across as money-grubbing
greedheads.

As for the big deal about Westhead reportedly telling a doctor to cut Hank's
prescription, that has yet to be proven.   But it was stated that Hank had
his own methods for dealing with the medicine - he'd jump rope and run sprints
for long periods of time before games in order to burn off the beta-blockers
that were controlling his heart rhythm.  That was Hank's decision - not Paul
Westhead's.

    My conclusions from the articles are much like Doug's.  I'd add one
    thing.  The separate pieces of those who stood to gain from Hank's pro
    career, his mother, the mother of his child, his brothers, etc. were
    only galvanized by one thing, the slick lawyer who's representing "the
    family" who himself can only be eyeing one thing: his 30% cut of any
    winnings (which will likely be settled out of court and a nice piece of
    change).
    
    Dan

Not to mention the flack that Bo Gimble has taken from the Gathers clan because
he had the nerve to live and sign an NBA contract.

I, too came away with the conclusion that Gathers knew exactly what he was going
on when the medicine dosage was reduced. He was also trying to burn it all off 
before hte games by doing sprints or jumping rope.

I'm sure the family will reap a hefty profit from their legal action against
the school.....


Metz

Did anyone watch the Providence Oklahoma game in lasted night's NIT
Tourney?

I did. And I'm c-c-c-curious if anyone saw what I did.

13+ minutes to go, and Oklahoma up by 14 points. Suddenly the Refs went
on a run! Yep... the Refs. I've never seen anything like it. Over a 4
minute period they called a couple of traveling calls on Oklahoma that
were super cheap. They called fouls that were unbelievable. They kept
putting Providence on the line, or giving them the ball out of bounds.
They called OU for a charge and the replay clearly showed the Providence
player LEAPING into the OU guy. At the end of the 4 minutes OU had only
a three point lead and were reeling. I thought it was an amazing display
of poise for them to get it back together and win the game. Now, we all
know Clemson Refs are purchased on a weekly basis (or by the season)...
but how prevalent is this practice in college hoops?

I was seriously ass-tounded. I had started out kinda hoping Providence
would win, just because I thought Colorado University would have a
better chance of beating Providence than Oklahoma. That four minutes
definitely changed my mind about who I wanted to win.

Mike JN

    I thought OU got the same kind of treatment (other way around) against
    Cincinnati.  The Bearcats got hosed big time...
    
    And sorry Minutemen fans, but I gotta root for Siena and hope the same
    thing happens for them.
    
    _Walt

I saw the same thing...I couldn't believe all the tickey - tack fouls that got
called in a 5 minute segment. Quite the ugly hoop game once the refs(tm) got
involved.

Two guys bumping into each other away from the ball and the OU guy got called
for the foul.


Metz

yeah but it went both ways. Providence had 7 personals against them and OU
had none in the first 10 minutes of the second half so they obviously felt
obligied to even it out ...

wasn't that Saliner for OU something ? Son of gun was automatic in the box
the second half..

mike.

    
    	Any scores from tonights games?
    
    B.A.

    Arkansas blew out Alabama... Seton Hall squeaks by Arizona...Kansas
    up 26-4....first half...

    Arkansas 93, Alabama 70
    Seton Hall 81, Arizona 77
    Kansas 49, Indiana 27(half)
    Utah vs. UNLV to begin in < 5 mins.
    
    						 glen j.

Considering it was 21-4 at one point and 26-9 at another I'd say Bobby
made some nice adjustments. I hate to think the comeback was the results
of some happy whistlers....

mike

Who the hecks right here Kev or GL?

mike

    
    	Actually Mike, Kansas was 10-17 during the first 5 minutes, with 
    most of those 3-pointers.  Combination of Kansas cooling off and
    Indiana playing better D.  Jayhawks are continually pounding the ball
    inside.  
    
    						 glen j.

well 55-32 isn't the comeback that 27-22 was...Indiana better dig deep...

    Kansas 83, Indiana 65
    UNLV 83, Utah 66
    
    
    						 glen j.

    UMass 82, Siena 80 in overtime. UMass scored the only two points
    of the OT. They play Stanford on Monday and I think the other semi
    is Oklahoma v. Colorado.

    The UMass game of course is the only one that really and truly matters. 
    :-)
    
    Tony Barbee hit a 3 pointer as time was expiring to tie it.  Our pal
    Nazz, who sat in his parked car outside his house to listen to the game
    on an Albany station, called me at 10 last night to give me all the
    details.  Lest I spoil his fun, I'll let him post the news.
    
    We messed up the NIT big-time because they really wanted Fordham to get
    in for the local draw.  Fine with me.
    
    Sorry Walt,
    
    John

Let's be honest, the Hoosiers had a good year, but underachieved by losing
so badly last night.   A top 5 team should at least reach the round of 8.

Bob Knight MUST go outside his normal recruiting range {IN,IL,OH} to get
a big man for the year after next.   One 7 footer makes everything fall
into place in 92-93.  Even a Dean Garrett or Uwe Blab would have made this
team a powerhouse.

I thought I heard the score as 85-83.

If that's so it was quite a comeback, because I saw an early score
of 21-4 Kansas!

'Saw

> I thought I heard the score as 85-83.

  No, it was 83-65.

  I wonder about BK's coaching this year.  IU came out flat against both
  FSU and Kansas.  It seemed to me that they really weren't into either
  game at the start.  While he was once a great coach, maybe he just doesn't
  have what it takes to motivate today's players.  He continues a trend
  since the national championship game against Syracuse with a bunch of
  underachieving teams.

    Indiana never looked like they would come back.  A few times they
    gained acouple of baskets but then Kansas just picked up the pace.
    A great effort outa KU that will give them momentum for Arkansas
    (who apparently didn't play that great against Alabama despite their
    93 points)
    
    Come on Kansas.  I want a OSU/KU rematch.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Dan'l,
    
    The way the Rebels played last night, Kansas would have whupped them.
    The Rebels can be had.
    
    JD

There was an article in the paper that said that Colorado was originally
scheduled (or intended, based on regions) to play UMass. But that it was
decided to pit Colo vs Okla. in the semis to avoid the possibility of
two Big 8 teams playing in New York for the Championship.

Seems like a pretty shoddy decision to me.

Mike JN

Re: Indy and Kansas game

I thought Knight made some pretty good adjustments, but Kansas was just 
unconscious when the game started; everything they fired up was falling
through the hoop. Indy started deep in the hole, and needed some luck
and some skill to get out. They didn't get either. 

I saw Knight yelling a couple times, and doing some drawing, and I think
he was trying to get his people to block-out. On the Offensive boards,
Indiana was out rebounded 2 to 1. Shooting percentages were pretty equal
for both teams. Kansas looked awesome from 3 point land, but I'll
maintain that Indiana losted it on the front line.

Mike JN

I'll also maintain that Arizona has a better ball club than Seton Hall,
but .... while Lute Olson isn't chopped liver... PJ Carlissimo is a hell
of a lot better coach.

Mike JN

 A quote from Knight after the loss to Kansas ...
 
 	"We got beat right where we ought to get beat [in the tournament]. 
 	 We're not a team capable of getting to the Final Four.  There have
 	 got to be four better teams than us in America.  One of them is
 	 Kansas."
 
 This is the biggest difference between Knight and Smith.  Snuffy would
 never say this and he cain't anyway because of his obscene talent
 overload.
 
 Bob Hunt

    I'll be pulling for Kansas tomorrow, but I doubt they'll have an answer
    for Miller.  He's probably lickin' his chops looking at KU's lineup.  I 
    would guess KU will put Randall on him.
    
    Joe
    

>There was an article in the paper that said that Colorado was originally
>scheduled (or intended, based on regions) to play UMass. But that it was
>decided to pit Colo vs Okla. in the semis to avoid the possibility of
>two Big 8 teams playing in New York for the Championship.

>Seems like a pretty shoddy decision to me.

>Mike JN
    
    The NIT committee obviously makes up the schedule as teams advance
    and as teams fall.  That's really convenient for the NIT but not
    too fair.  They must have SOME guidelines to go by.  Surely the
    NIT is more thought out than this.  Anyone know what determines
    the scheduling, etc?!?!
    
    Cowboy
    

>    The NIT committee obviously makes up the schedule as teams advance
>    and as teams fall.  That's really convenient for the NIT but not
>    too fair.  They must have SOME guidelines to go by.  Surely the
>    NIT is more thought out than this.  Anyone know what determines
>    the scheduling, etc?!?!
    
     Money.

    I think they try to make some matchups regional, such as Rice-Arkansas
    St., Tulsa-Oklahoma, and Wyoming-Colorado.  Other than that, I don't
    know what other means they use to determine matchups.  As for which
    teams play at home, they try to pick place where attendace will be
    good.  After CU beat Michigan and had a good turnout for that game,
    they gave them another home game and then another.  In recent years,
    New Mexico has hosted quite a few NIT games because they traditionally
    draw well.
    
    Joe

    re: 9.322
    
    The committee really DOESN'T care about being fair to the
    participants and money talks.  Colorado would be really
    lucky to still be winning if they were the visiting team.
    
    
    

    A silly as it may sound, I think a major turning point in the Arkansas
    Alabama game was something the Tide band did.  Arkansas was leading,
    but could not shake Bama in the second half.  Then there was a stoppage
    of play.  The Bama band chanted the following:
    
    	"Olliiiiiiiiie, Olliiiiiiiiie, Olliiiiiiiie...YOU'RE FAT!"
    
    Then they all giggled and highfived and did that "yeah we're gonna win
    this game for our team" band-type hooha.
    
    Miller caught fire right after that.  Totally unstoppable the rest of
    the game.  
    
    Funny how coaches will search for an edge before the game.  If they
    wait long enough, usually the opposing team's band will give them one.
    
    	--dan'l

          <<< AIADM::WORK$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOSTON_CELTICS.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Boston Celtics (volume V) >-
================================================================================
Note 105.34                   NCAA TOURNEY RESULTS                      34 of 34
WORDY::NAZZARO "So much for Princeton!"              36 lines  22-MAR-1991 11:25
         -< I listened to the 2nd half in my car (1540 AM in Albany!) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    UMASS TO THE FINAL FOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    It is only the NIT of course, but UMass will be entertaining Stanford
    at Madison Square Garden Monday night at 7.  Yours truly will be there,
    of course, and will file a detailed report of the Minuteman victory
    Tuesday morning.
    
    As for last night's thrilling 82-80 overtime victory against 14,084
    fans and a tough Siena team, let me just say that the win was nothing
    short of miraculous!  UMass was down 10 with 8 minutes left, down 4
    with 3 minutes left, but an alley oop slam by William Herndon and a
    Hrndon tip-in tied the game at 76 with 1:20 left.  Siena missed a
    shot with 40 seconds left, and UMass got the rebound.  They can work
    the clock for the last shot, BUT NNNOOOOOOOOO, Tony Barbee tries a
    layup with 20 seconds left!!!  Blocked shot!!!  Siena gets the rebound,
    and Anton Brown, apparently thinking that UMass is down rather than
    tied, fouls Siena's Marc Brown with 13 seconds left.  Brown makes
    two FT.  UMass is down two.  They push it upcourt, get the ball low
    to Harper Williams AND HE'S FOULED - 5 SECONDS LEFT.  He makes the
    first, Siena calls time out to ice him, and it works.  Williams misses
    the seconds, rebound to Siena's 7' center ????? Downey.  He gets fouled
    with 2.9 seconds left and makes both 80-77 Siena.  UMass tosses the
    ball in to halfcourt and called TO right away - only .6 seconds
    expired.  With 2.3 seconds left, Brown inbounds to Tony Barbee, who is
    0-5 in three pointers for the night, but he turns and takes an NBA
    3-pointer - IT'S GOOD, IT'S GOOD!!!!!!!  WE'RE GOING OVERTIME.
    
    Neither club can throw it in the ocean in OT.  Finally UMass fouls
    some guy for Siena with 1:25 left.  He misses both FT!!!  UMass with
    the ball, works the clock, McCoy pops out for an open 17 footer - GOOD!
    UMass leads 82-80.  Siena has 46 seconds left to do something, but the
    UMass defense is too tough, and Siena's last second desperation shot
    is a 3-point underhand scoop.  UMass rebounds and IS GOING TO NEW
    YORK!!!!!
    
    NAZZ                                                        
    

    The Redmen of St. John's whipped the Buckeyes of Ohio State last night
    91-74, to advance to the Midwest Regional finals vs. Duke on Sunday
    afternoon.  The way they're playing (shooting well, hitting the boards, 
    getting the loose balls, getting balanced scoring, playing D), a win
    over Duke is possible.
    
    Let's go Redmen.
    
    Redmen Phil  
              
    

    UConn has been one of my favorite teams in the past few years...until
    Friday night.  The roughing up of Christian Laittner (by Burrell?) has
    put them on my black list.  It's also a mark against the Big East. 
    
    Laittner, on the other hand, was so so so cool.  Now there's a man with
    a good grasp on his emotions.  Had he not kept calm when Burrell? was
    in his face, there never would have been a technical called.  If the
    officials would have seen what was being done to him on the scrammble
    for the loose ball, I dare say that player would have been thrown out
    of the game.
    
    Never thought I'd say this but:
    
    
    
    GO ACC!
    
    
    
    except Carolina, of course.
    
    	--dan'l
    

    
    > UConn has been one of my favorite teams in the past few years...until
    > Friday night.  The roughing up of Christian Laittner (by Burrell?) has
    > put them on my black list.  It's also a mark against the Big East. 
    
    I was thinking the exact same thing while watching this game, Dan'l. 
    First off, last weekend UConn put on a Miami Hurricane-style midcourt 
    boogie upon their advancement to the Final 16, which I didn't think was
    too classy.  Then the technical on the guy who was obviously trying to
    bait Laettner into a fight.  When that didn't work, it was time for the 
    good old-fashioned head stomping while Laettner was down on the floor
    after a loose ball.  Disturbing...
    
    UConn had a great reputation last year as a valiant, sportsmanlike team 
    when they fell to Duke in one of the best (and most heartbreaking) 
    games of the year.  This year they behaved very poorly in defeat.  Is
    UConn taking the mantle from Georgetown as the dirty team of the Big
    East?
    
    glenn
    

    I was really surprised by UCONN.  I expect Jim Calhoun to put a stop to
    that crap.  Calhoun took none of that crap at Northeastern - in fact he
    benched a top prospect (Endy Basquit - instant offense) for taunting
    while at NU.  Hopefully Coach Calhoun will set things straight.
    
    In defense, Laetner deserves whatever he gets.  The guy never gets
    called for anything.  
    
    JD

    Maybe Laettner doesn't get called for anything because he's a clean player. 
    After Friday night's exhibition of utmost temperance, you'd have a hard
    time convincing me otherwise.
    
    He doesn't have the massive body to gain much of an advantage in the
    lane.  And, let's say he doesn't get whistled, you are way out of line,
    JD, in saying that a player deserves to be elbowed and forearmed in the
    face while going for a lose ball.  There is no room for that kind of
    unsportmanlike conduct in any activity.
    
    Laettner got the best of UConn and the Big East by turning the other
    cheek.  I wish I could control my temper like he did.  He is a
    testament of good sportsmanship, in my opinion.
    
    	--dan'l

    Dan'l
    
    Not saying Laetner deserved getting elbowed and forearmed - I agree -
    it has no place.
    
    However, I think its frustrating when one player can get away with
    pushing and shoving  and not getting called, and another player does
    the same thing and does get called.  Laetner happens to fall in the
    first category (so does Larry Johnson, FWIW).  If refs could be more
    consistent, perhaps frustrations wouldn't build to a point where those
    players that have a low boiling point won't explode and do something
    stupid.
    
    I've always wondered why refs, who to a person claim to be objective
    and fair, insist on favortism in calling fouls (both in college and in
    the pros).  Why do freshman automatically get whistled?  Why do big
    subs get whistled?  Why do certain teams somehow manage to go through a
    complete game without getting any whistles?
    
    For instance Dan'l, why is Christian Laetnerr able to bump and shoot
    from inside and not get the call, but an opponent isn't?  
    
    I've been disappointed the whole tourney in the officiating.  I think
    officials are afraind to call stuff against 'stars' and against the
    favorites.   
    
    JD

Well, I know that there's been lots of talk lately about how stressed
Calhoun is.  One of the more uncharacteristic things that no one in
here has mentioned is how much he's berated his players lately.

I'm know from experience the coach's attitude has a great effect on 
the players.  I figured this was going to be a rebuilding year and
I'm surprised they went as far as they did.

We'll see what happens next year...perhaps they'll clean up their
act a bit, and Big Jim will be a tad more relaxed....

'Saw

    re .331
    
    Yeah, I agree with ya, JD. Greg Kite used to get a technical just for
    checking into a game.
    
    Rich
    

    re .331
    
    Laettner got any with some unbelieveable traveling a couple of times
    too ... once, they should have given him a damned passport.
    
    Anyhow the only real game was UNC and Temple. Macon was fantastic (was
    very happy for him), and Temple played their guts out, UNC did what
    they had to do to hang on.
    
    Did anyone see the look that came on Dean's face when time expired ? 
    
    The first emotion wasn't joy, it was relief ..... 
    
    It's a shame to live under that type of pressure ...

    Doc,
    
    Macon put on quit a show.  I was hoping that last 3 would go in. But
    them's the breaks. 
    
    Hawk:
    
    Hawhawhaw.
    
    Larry Johnson has changed.  For one thing, he's a man playing against
    boys.  And he doesn't need protection by the refs.  When UNLV fans
    laugh about the stuff he gets away with, you know it's pretty true.
    If Coach K can get the refs to call 3 seconds or over the back, DUKE
    can beat UNLV.  It's the only way. 
    
    However, the heart and soul of UNLV is Stacey Augman.  He's the guy
    who'll turn it up a notch on either end.  
    
    And as BIll Walton said yesterday, the real unsung hero has been Eckles
    (and to some degree, Spencer).  They've been playing big.  
    
    JD

 Comments from the North Carolina players after Macons's performance
 yesterday indicated that Macon would say "Good!" when he released the
 shots he thought would drop.    He shot 12 for 23 for 31 points and said
 "Good!" on all 12 shots that hit.
 
 Methinks he made up for his embarassing 6 for 29 performance three years
 ago against Duke in the Meadowlands.
 
 Bob Hunt

    I wish that people would kindly get off of that 6-29 game. The
    announcers made me want to throw up recalling it.
    
    the way I see it, the man had a bad game, induced by good defense. It
    happens to everyone, and for some reason, Macon has had to hear that
    B.S. ever since. 
    
    He finally got a good supporting cast and went to town on the Heels.
    That was one of the big reasons I was rooting for him. 
    
    Like JD, I was praying that last three would go down, but dems the
    breaks .... AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!

    	Ya gotta love ol' Bill Walton.  When asked to recount his favorite
    moment in the tournament he says it was UNLV's play in the beginning
    of the second half with Seton Hall.  He called it perfect basketball.
    Then he says UNLV is ripe for the upset because they look so tired.
    Huh?  Did the CBS brass call the studio and tell the redhaid calling
    the Rebels perfect is not a way to drum up business for next Saturday's
    and Monday's games?
    
    				/Don

    Well, they certainly picked a guy who knows about being undefeated and
    having high expectations. Walton certainly states his opnions up front.
    You may not agree (such as his criticsm of Chaney's last shot), but he
    doesn't hide from a different opinion ....
    
    UNLV will eat Duke alive .... my big question is whether or not Hurley
    will continually pcik up his dribble at midcourt when Hunt puts the
    screws on him like last year ?

    You are right, Bob Hunt.  I forgot about Christian Laettner's technical
    in the ACC championship game...I wasn't watching.  So he does have a
    temper.  Even more to his credit that he controlled it Friday after
    being mauled while defenseless on the floor and faced a few seconds
    later.
    
    Imagine if that had been somebody like Derrick Coleman, Patrick Ewing,
    Larry Johnson, or Alonzo "Mr. Attitude" Mourning.  There would have
    been a bench-clearer as sure as you can say Dean Smith's a choker. 
    Laettner, on the other hand, obviously has learned to shed his ego
    along with his sweats.  
    
    I just can't say enough about how much respect he's gained in my eyes. 
    It's hard to picture any other basketball player, present or past, that
    would have taken what Burrell dished out, gotten up, exchanged a few
    stares, and went on playing.
    
    And don't we all get angry with the Dean-sided officials?  And get
    this: there was a letter to the Charlotte Observer sports editor from a
    Carolina fan last week that called for Laettner's public appology or
    else suspension from basketball.  Wonder what this person thought of
    the King Rice incident?
    
    	--dan'l

    >In defense, Laetner deserves whatever he gets.  The guy never gets
    >called for anything.  
    
    I missed the incident, as the game didn't keep my attention.
    
    But I'll say one thing for Laettner, someone has sure taught him well. 
    He has the entire NBA bag of tricks going for him, the one that tells
    how to get away with whatever you can when the ref's not looking.  I've
    been seeing it all year in his play, and the play where Duke scored
    just before the half sticks out.
    
    Laettner's looking to be a cross between Bill Laimbeer and Kevin McHale
    in the NBA, in more ways than one.
    
    Dan
    

    
    >  Laettner's looking to be a cross between Bill Laimbeer and Kevin McHale
    >  in the NBA, in more ways than one.
    
    He has niether Laimbeer's outside short or McHale's inside moves.
    That's not saying he won't improve but I see him being drafted in the
    2nd round and not making it. Sort of in the Sampson/Joe Barry Carroll
    mold of loaded potential.....no heart.
    
    Funny thing about Laimbeer. I detest the guy. But, Dan is right. If he
    played for a team I rooted for I would admire his strategy and awe at
    the way he took his opponents out of their game.
    
    Does this mean that if McHale or Laimbeer played for the Nets that Dan
    would admire them for their talents?
    
    Rich

    >the way I see it, the man had a bad game, induced by good defense. It
    >happens to everyone, and for some reason, Macon has had to hear that
    >B.S. ever since. 
    
    Like it or not, that game started a tremendous slump that Macon only
    got out of this year.  If he works on his ball-handling, learns about
    shot selection, and makes the transition to NBA-style defense, he could
    be a very useful 3rd guard.  I'd love to see him in that role on the
    Lakers.
    
    Dan

    You guys see the negatives in Laettner that I don't.  I'll have to
    watch more closely.  
    
    Rich, what makes you say he doesn't have heart?  Just because he's not
    a fiery player?  I don't think he'll be a great pro either, but I say
    that because he doesn't have enough beef on his bones.
    
    	--dan'l

    Dan'l, I don't think he has what it takes to succeed at the NBA level.
    And it has nothing to do with lack of beef. He is a very talented
    player who is a premier player at the college level. In order to
    succeed a guy has to turn it up a notch in the pros and I don't think
    Laettner's got the heart to do it.
    
    Just a hunch.
    
    Rich
    

 Laettner has the heart.   
 
 He killed Connecticut at the buzzer in overtime in last year's East Region
 finals.  He was just a sophomore then.   The year before, 1989, as a
 freshman,  he was the best player on the court as Duke took out Georgetown
 again in the East Region finals.   That stuff takes heart and ice water in
 the veins.
 
 He may not be a star in the NBA but lack of heart will not be the cause.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Laettner will be the nexted Danny Ferry in the pros.
    
    Macon played his way into the lottery, IMO.  He plays excellent
    defense, handles the ball well enough for an off guard, and he
    has the stroke.
    
    SOme idiot announcer yesterday said Fox and Chilcutt are both first 
    round draft choice sure bets.  Not even ACC_Chris has spewed that
    garbage.  I see Fox as a tweener who may not have a pro position,
    and Chilcutt as a marginal pro at best (another Dave Popson?).
    
    NAZZ

    Did anyone see Laettner in the Goodwill Games last summer? When he was
    in with the big boys, he just didn't have it. Maybe it was me but he
    seemed to be in over his head.
    
    Rich
    

    
re.345
        
>    Like it or not, that game started a tremendous slump that Macon only
>    got out of this year.  
    
    Dan, I'm suprised at you for falling for the hype.
    
    Macon passed the 2,600 point mark yesterday. Between you and me, I
    would guess that most of those points came after the Duke game three
    years ago.
    
    People forget that Macon was the last, and possibly most talented
    edition to an already solid team in 88. Tim Perry (and another guy
    whose name I forget) went to the NBA, and Macon saw box and ones and
    triangle and two's ad infinum ... being the only threat on the court,
    defenses went after him with a vengance. It's amazing he's done what he
    has done.
    
>    If he works on his ball-handling, learns about shot selection, 
    
    How paternal of you. Scouts give him high marks for both already. Even
    in his off years, Macon is touted as one of the best players off the
    dribble in the country.
    
>    and makes the transition to NBA-style defense, 
    
    Heh heh heh. Dan-o, if there is one thing that has really impressed
    scouts about Macon, it is his defensive play in college. The
    transistion *should* be easiser for him than for many players.
    
    I think Macon can flourish with the right team and coaching. But if he
    winds up in the chaos of say, Sacramento, heaven help him ....
    
    Doc

    
    
    re .349
    
>    Laettner will be the nexted Danny Ferry in the pros.
 
    Damn. I thought I was the only person to think that ! Laettner had
    better learn how to dribble and play outside, because they will kill
    him in the NBA he if thinks he can live in the paint.
       
>    Macon played his way into the lottery, IMO.  He plays excellent
>    defense, handles the ball well enough for an off guard, and he
>    has the stroke.
 
    I like the way you think .... :-) Now save Dan from himself.
    
    And "has the stroke" is an understatement. When he is on, forget it.
                                  
>    SOme idiot announcer yesterday said Fox and Chilcutt are both first 
>    round draft choice sure bets. 
    
    Yeah, only if Shinn of the Hornets catches the JR fever again ....
    
    Doc

    When did Nate Blackwell graduate?  The huge center the Celts drafted
    that wound up playing for the Puerto Rican national team? (How can
    they be a national team?)  I always got him mixed up with Ramon Rivas,
    but anyway, he played on a high level too.  Now, it's just Macon.
    
    Chaney was real shaken up after yesterday's game, I guess an end of
    an era for him...

    >Dan, I'm suprised at you for falling for the hype.
    
    Not hype Doc.  Every time I saw him play, he showed horrible shot
    selection, and a horrible shooting percentage.  He also wasn't the same
    player without the ball in his hands.  Yeah, few players in college got
    off as many shots as he did, and therein lies the tale of 2600 points.
    
    >How paternal of you. Scouts give him high marks for both already. Even
    >in his off years, Macon is touted as one of the best players off the
    >dribble in the country.
    
    Scouts say this...experts say that.  How come no one who wants to
    register another opinion can ever quote the source any more?  
    
    Whether you want to admit it or not, there will be a transition between
    the Atlantic 10 and the NBA, and I am not convinced that all the
    talents that Macon displayed against 6'1" guards in college will make
    it through to the pros.  We'll see.
    
    Dan

    Sigh.  We really shot ourselves in the foot last night, losing 73-71. 
    After falling behind by 16 in the first half, we closed the gap to 4 at
    the half and fell behind by about 9 early in the second half.  We did
    it with our best player, Jim McCoy, in early foul trouble too.
    
    We shot ourselves in the foot by going about 50% from the line and you
    don't win very many basketball games when you do that.
    
    Our biggest problems are still depth and height.  We only play 7 guys
    and when we get someone in foul trouble, we're really in trouble. 
    Luckily, only one of the 7 is graduating.  Stanford killed us inside
    all night.
    
    While I'm happy to see us get this far, this is *NOT* an excellent
    loss.  Not only could we have won the game, but when you get this far
    you're good enough to win - period.  There is no substitute for winning
    at this level and a 2-point loss is *NOT* acceptable.  If you ever get
    happy with a good performance in a loss, then that's just what you are
    - a loser.  (North Carolina fans, take note).
    
    John

    But, John, that Andrew Vlahov or whatever is a career 50% foul shooter.
    He was perfect from the line last night (12-12?). That was the
    difference, in my opinion.
    
    Sure Keefe was murder inside but UMass was quicker and capitalized
    nicely on Stanford turnovers. That one guy making all his free throws
    was the difference.
    
    IMHO - UMass' uniforms are close to the ugliest in the tournament. 
    
    Rich
    

    Did I read a graphic they displayed during last night's game correctly -- 
    UMass came up short in their eight Atlantic 10 conference losses  by only 
    *a total of 12 points*?!?!?
    
    
    py

    Yup, that is correct, Paul.
    
    Rich
    

    I agree with you about the unis, Rich.  They are ugly, especially the
    long shorts.
    
    That graphic wasn't quite correct.  It was 8 of the losses overall and
    not 8 of the 12 Atlantic 10 losses since one of the losses to Temple
    was by 10 points.  
    
    I read in the Globe today that one of the sites for next years first
    and second round NCAA East Regionals will be the Worcester Centrum.
    
    John 

It certainly was a more exciting game than we been seeing in the NCAA's.
Boy could that Herdon(?)#34 explode or what? The announcer was killing
me going on and on about how Mcoy had to shot down the stretch and then
he miss two in a row and it's well I think they better get the ball to
someone else he can't do it all he's wild etc...

too bad...

mike

         As the half dozen UMASS fans in this conference will attest,
    this current version of the Minutemen is certainly hard on blood
    pressure.  The most telling graphic of the night was the 8 losses
    by a total of 12 points (after last night it is now 9 by a total of
    14).
    
         While I won't be as hard on them as John, it was clearly a 
    game that could have been won.  Particularly frustrating is watching
    a poor free throw shooter (Vlahov) go 12 for 12 on the one hand,
    and seeing Barbee, who last year shot UMASS' technical fouls, go
    1 for 6 from the line!!
    
         Clearly the team has some holes to fill.  Early in the year I
    lamented the lack of a center and the play at point guard.  Now I
    am inclined to agree with John that the lack of a big man for
    rebounding and inside defense is the number one deficiency.  With
    five starters back, and the beginnings of a good recruiting year,
    the depth problem should be remedied.  Reportedly, UMASS is bringing 
    in a stud power forward from New Jersey, and a good point guard from 
    prep school.  Now if they can only find a 6'10", backboard eater at 
    some JUCO, who will project, I will have a pleasant summer.
    
    Russ

    I'm being hard on them today because I don't want anyone to feel that
    losing a game that could have been won is something to be satisfied
    with.  This team cannot be satisfied and has to take itself to the next
    level.  If they go around thinking they're successful because of where
    they got to then they're sadly mistaken.  (I also don't want anyone to
    ever mistake me for a North Carolina fan either, satisfied with coming
    close and failing)
    
    The other thing I've thought this team is lacking is someone who will
    really take charge when the game is on the line, someone who really
    wants the ball in the crucial situations, someone, in short, with
    bal!s.  Our current players aren't like that.
    
    Mike, William Herndon is 6'3" and has a 42 inch vertical leap.
    
    John

         John, as we've discussed in the past, I too am disappointed
    by UMASS' lack of a big game player.  It was obvious last night that
    no one on the team played a "monster" game, although Rafer Giles was
    a clutch player in the first half.  Particularly troubling, is that
    McCoy rarely rises to the occasion in the big games.  McCoy shares
    the backcourt with Mark Macon on the Atlantic 10 All-Star team.  Yet
    while Macon can single handedly carry his team against a top 10 team
    like the Tarheels, McCoy will often disappear against top 40
    competition.  I've watched him shoot 35% against too many good teams.
    Harper Williams on the other hand is usually good for a quiet 15
    points against just about anybody.
    
    Russ

    Oh, and I'm not sure where the discussion of the overemphasis of the
    coaches was ongoing, but this is a good place to show an example of
    just the thing I mean:
    
    "John Calipari has the speed and quickness to beat Stanford"
    
    Now, since when does it matter how much speed and quickness Calipari
    has and how relevant was it to UMass' ability to beat Stanford last
    night?  Sheesh, even if he had any speed and quickness, he's used up
    all his eligibility.
    
    I agree with the players coming and going but the coach staying on, but
    I don't pay to watch a coach - I pay to watch a player.  Besides, the
    schools have been around longer than the coaches have and will be there
    long after the coach is gone.  My allegiance is to the University of
    Massachusetts, not to John Calipari, and when it comes time for him to
    move on, it will be "thanks, goodbye, it's been real and don't let the
    door hit you in the ass on the way out."
    
    John
    
    PS - I do freely admit that my allegiance to Syracuse football was only
    because of the people who were on the coaching staff and I plead guilty
    to the same thing that I'm accusing the announcers of, but on the other
    hand, the people at Syracuse were and are my friends

    
>    I read in the Globe today that one of the sites for next years first
>    and second round NCAA East Regionals will be the Worcester Centrum.
    
>    John 
    
    Hey John, could you post all the 1st and 2nd round sites for next year
    if you have 'em?  Thanx.
    
    Joe

    Sorry, it's the only one that was in the paper.
    
    John

 John, and everyone else the 1st and 2nd rounds next year at the centrum will
 be hosted by Holy Cross. If you have friends, relatives or know alumni there
 I would talk to them about getting tickets.

 On the coach thing John, I would like to think that the announcer was implying
 that Calapari had the players with the speed and quickness (which they did)
 to beat Stanford. He still has to use them correctly but again the announcer
 could have as easily said UMASS had the speed and quickness. I think the
 emphasis is placed on using the coach because it gives you a personality
 you can idenify a school with instead of a tradition from that school. Gives
 you someone tangible to BLAM(tm) or credit for the fortunes of the team.
 Can't really give the school grounds or halls credit except for at ND where
 I know TD Jesus and GP Moses have something to do with the outcome..
 :^)

 Rich, I agree with you on too much of the pro coaches in football being shown
 and given credit is too much. These guys have tons of assistants who make 
 gameday decisions and preperations. Colege bball coaches on the other hand
 generally make all the decisions. The assistants are there to scout and drill
 the kids.

 In conclusion they should show less of the coaches but in college basketball
 the coaches do deserve the lion share of credit or BLAM(tm)......

 mike

USA TODAY has Grad Rates for Universities in Football and Hoops.
They have a bunch of stats, but I'll just post percentage of 1984 
football recruits graduating by 1989, and the same for Hoops.
First column is percentage of football players, second column is hoops.
    I dont' have time to put the whole listing in.  However, it does
    include overall grad rates.  Third column is % of all male athletes
    graduating by 1989.  This study is for the 1984-1989 time period.
    
    
Selected Schools:

North Carolina:  71.4% football, 50% hoops, 70.7 males
Duke:  92.3%, 100%, 95.9
Virginia:  81.5%, 40%   , 86%
Georgia Tech:  55%, 25% , 56.1%

UCONN:  52.6%  25%, 54.1
Georgetown:  N/A  50%, 90.6
St. John's:  N/A  100%, 78.4
Seton Hall: n/A   60% , 50
Syracuse:  68.2, 33% , 67.8
Villanova: n/a  50%, 87.5

Colorado:  51.9%, 33%, 53.7
Kansas:    52.4%, 28.6%, 54.4


Illinois:  52.4%, 25% , 53.8
Indiana:  56%, 66.7% , 53.8
Michigan:  56.8%, 0% , 60.6
Ohio State:  21.7%, 25%, 52.9
Purdue:   40.7%, 60%, 62.8

UNLV:  17.4% 0% (note, 1 recruit), 21.1
Cal St. Fullerton:  8.3%  0% (6 recruits!), 23.9

Princeton:  96.6%  100% (10 recruits!), 97.4

Louisville:  18.8%, 0%, 40.4

Xavier:  N/A, 100%, 79.1

Arizona State:  27.3%, 33%, 30.5

Alabama:  20%, 0%, 32.7
Auburn, 14.8%, 0%, 42.2
Georgia:  32.1% 0% , 36.5

Texas:  28%, 0%, 42.3
Arkansas:  42.9%, 33.3% , 38

Loyola-Marymount:  n/a, 50%, 46.2

Notre Dame:  81.3%, 75%, 92.8

NOTES:  N/A means school doesn't compete in football.  Note that big 
time schools such as Arizona, Miami, DePaul, Pittsburgh, Providence 
either declined to respond, or in Arizona's case, didn't respond to some 
of the categories.

    
    Some general notes:  The SEC graduating rate for all athletes is 36.4%
    
    Private Schools have a grad rate for athletes of 78.8%, Public Schools
    are at 45.8%
    
    Grad rate for Basketball players in Division I was 39%.
    
    SEC Hoop grad rate was 14%, Big West was 18.9%
    
    For football, here's some eye catching grad rates:  Auburn 15%, Ohio
    State 22%, Oklahoma and USC 25%.
    
    In hoops, 60 Division I schools did not have any players graduate.
    
    
    The NCAA response to this latest survye for 84-89:  "It's that way
    every year,"  Ursula Walsh, NCAA research director.
    
    JD

    RE -1
    Very interesting study.  JD, would mind putting Stanford's results in
    there if you get a chance?  Thanx.
    
    Joe

    Wow NC at only 50% where's the 99.9% that ACChris is always talking 
    about????

    Joe,
    
    Stnaford:  71.4% football, 66.7% hoops, 84.1% male athletes.
    
    JD
    
    ANd BTW, I made a slight mistake, the 3rd column is for the % of 1984
    freshman athlets graduating by 1989.
    
    PS  Maryland's numbes are 11.1, 0, and 49.4.  UTEP is 16.7, 0 and 22.5;
    Florida is 29.6, 20 and 33.8; Rice (for DOC) was 69.6, 66.7, and 70.1;
    Houston was 20.2, 0 and 18.1 (!); LSU was 21.4, 16.7, and 24.1; UCLA
    was 50, 33.3 and 54.6; Washington was 31, 25 and 45.9.
    

    
    Here are the best rates per conference:
    
    ACC:
    
    Duke
    
    Atlantic 10:  Too tough to call, due to schools not have all the
    sports, but, St. Bonaventure was 100% in hoops w/o a football team,
    Rutgers was 84.2 for football, and had no hoops recruits in 84.
    
    Big East:  BC was probably best overall, with 85%, 100% and 89.4%
    
    
    Big Eight:  Toss between Kansas (52.4, 28.6 and 54.4) and Colorado
    (51.9, 33.3 and 53.7)
    
    Big Ten:  Northwestern 81.5, 100, 84.7
    
    Big West:  Pacific:  50, 40 and 64
    
    Metro:  Yikes!  
    
    Mid American:  Ball State:  58.6, 75 and 80.2
    
    Pac10:  Stanford
    
    SEC:  Vandebilt:  69, 0 (1 recruit), and 71.7
    
    SWC:  Rice, hands down.
    
    WAC:  Hawaii:  77.8, n/a (no recruits), 73.8  This was the 'no-show'
    conference, as Air Force, BYU and Utah all declined to answer.
    
    Independents:  Notre Dame, by a HUGE margin
    
    JD

    Interesting that the comparative stat they use is the number of
    male *athletes* graduating within the time period, rather than the
    total number of male *students*.  For me personally, the second
    figure would be enormously helpful.  Clearly, the astoundingly low
    percentage of basketball players graduating at some of these schools
    affects the percentage of atheletes graduating.
    
    I am astounded at the number of programs which graduated *none*
    of their players.  That indicates something really, pathalogically
    *wrong* with the concept of "student athelete" at those institutions,
    and probably with the college hoops program of the NCAA in general.
    I'm less clear about what the appropriate remedies would be.  Mandating
    a particular graduation rate doesn't seem appropriate.  The students
    do have some responsibility to use the opportunity to get an education
    that they're provided when they play on scholarship.  Do we possibly
    need to look at the scheduling of hoops games and have more weekend
    and less weeknight play?  Limit the number of hours per week spent
    on the sport v. classes?  Require the availability of study places
    while traveling?  Any other ideas?
    
    A&W
    

    I think some of those numbers are caused by players leaving school
    early to hit the pros.

    A&W,
    
    There were numbers for Female athletes and for overall percentage of
    1984 frosh graduating.
    
    Mac's right - it doesn't give special numbers for kids leaving early to
    go to other schools, turn pro, take 6-7 years to get degree, etc...
    
    Here's a good one, Maryland-Eastern Shore was 1-10 in graduating hooops
    recruits.
    
    JD

    Let's here it (once again) for another "attaboy" to
    the guy who runs the cleanest Div I program in the country
    and who has a * 100% * graduation rate.
    
    I'd say it's not too shabby for a guy who was being lambasted
    lasted(tm) year for allowing the "game to pass him by"!!!!
    
    Congrats LOUIEEEE!
    
    Kev
    8^)
    

    The University of Massachusetts lost the consolation game to Colorado
    last night, 98-91.  The game wasn't on TV but I don't have any details. 
    While I'm sort of happy with a 4th place finish in the NIT, knowing
    that we could have (and should have) beaten Stanford to end up in the
    title game makes it a little bit hard to swallow, but I'll get over it.
    
    While I don't think this will affect the athletic programs any, the
    University has merged with the University of Lowell and Southeastern
    Massachusetts University.  The former ULowell will now be known as
    "UMass-Lowell" and the former SMU will now be known as
    "UMass-Dartmouth".  This has been done to consolidate duplicate
    administrative functions and cut costs, given the lovely state of
    Massachusetts government.
    
    John

    re .377,
    
    John, does that merger take effect with the 1991-1992 school year?
    
    
    py (who entered ULowell right after the merger of Lowell State and
    Lowell Tech)

    
    I took a look at those graduation numbers, and one thing that should be
    pointed out is that school graduation rates for individual basketball
    programs cannot really be compared.  They're maybe useful for looking
    at conferences or the entire 1-A, but we're talking about *one*
    recruiting class, usually consisting of only 2-3 basketball players per
    school.  North Carolina's 50% was 1 out of 2, for example; the 100% for
    St. John's mentioned in the previous note was 3 out of 3.  To compare
    schools, we'd need to see these numbers over a period of years.
    
    One thing that surprised me a little bit is the low overall graduation
    rates at a lot of state schools.  Oklahoma's overall graduation rate,
    male and female, was only 35% over the five-year period allowed for the
    class entering in 1984.  Minnesota's was only 27% (what's going on up
    there, T?).  I think that when comparing graduation rates for athletes
    it should be considered that a lot of the schools with the good
    reputations also almost make it a policy to provide the financial and
    educational support to *ensure* that their students graduate.  The Ivy
    League schools are like this (around 90% total), as well as Duke 
    (92.3%), Virginia (89.3%), Georgetown (83.9%), Villanova (83.6%), 
    Notre Dame (92.7%), etc.  Yes, those schools also attract some of the
    best students, but I've also heard that once you're in, the university
    makes a point of providing all the attention necessary to get you out
    (and there's nothing wrong with that).  
    
    I mention this because I think a mistake is often made in comparing 
    graduation rates of athletic programs at various institutions when 
    the baseline in terms of resources are so much different at those 
    schools-- inevitably the well-endowed private schools are much the 
    better for the apples-and-oranges comparison, when in fact they may be
    doing no better in comparison to the overall student body than the
    underfunded, less-personalized public schools...
    
    glenn
        

    I don't know how widespread this policy is and I don't even know if it
    still exists, but Ohio State at one time had a policy of admitting any
    graduate of an Ohio High School who wanted to go to Ohio State.  The
    flunk out rate after the first quarter was just outrageous.
    
    John

    John, I listened to the last 12 minutes or so of the game on radio
    (WFAN in New York carried it) on my way home from playing basketball.
    
    When I got in the car, UMass was down five.  Soon it was 7, but Giles
    hit a three, McCoy scored and got fouled, and Herndon got a layup, and
    UMass had the lead with about 9 minutes left.  Colorado then scored the
    nexted 12 points (Vandiver was unstoppable inside), Giles hit another
    3, then Colorado scored twice more - a 16-2 run for a 13 pt Col. lead.
    We came back despite serious foul trouble (even Ben Grodski had 3!!!),
    and closed to 3 several times, but could never get over the hump.
    UMass fouled the same guy every time down the stretch, and he made
    his last 9 FT and 11 of 12.  Harper WIlliams had 20, McCoy 23, Giles
    18 (including 4 3-pointers), and Anton Brown 13.
    
    All in all, a very good season, and with all five starters back, UMass
    should be early co-favorite (with West Virginia) for the A-10 title
    nexted season.
    
    NAZZ

    Glenn,
    
    Agree with our synopsis.  I hope USA Today makes these numbers
    available every year.  Would be interesting.  I basically put them in
    as general information, and to show that some of the much bally-hooed
    programs don't have grad rates that great.  I think the overall numbers
    for students and athletes are better indications - and for the most
    part, the overall athletic rates supported the percentages for football
    and hoops at the big school.
    
    My alma mater, Northeastern, didn't respond to the inquiry.  My guess
    is the rate would be low.  First, NU has 'rolling admissions', and the
    first quarter drop-out rate has always been high.  Second, NU is mostly
    a Co-op school, which means 5 years of school to begin with.  Quite a
    few folks need an extra quarter.  
    
    THe disparity between private and state schools is large, but not
    totally unexpected.
    
    Some of the numbers, however, are horrible.  An overall grad rate of
    39% for recruited male hoop players is not good, no matter HOW you look
    at it!
    
    JD

    Glenn -
    
    Thanks for the additional info.  I really *want* to compare apples
    and apples, which for me is grad rates for the school overall v
    athletic grad rates.  One of my private definitions of "student
    athlete" is that the team makeup should not be radically different
    from the rest of the student body makeup, at least in terms of their
    ability to be *students*.  If a school has stated policies on
    admissions requirements, like a geographically dispersed student
    body, those should also be reflected in the team makeup.  Athletic
    ability is another way that schools get heterogeneous populations,
    and I wouldn't count that as one of the places where the sports
    team should reflect the student body over all.  I also recognize
    that that's the Utopian view, and not at all what is currently in
    practice.
    
    A&W 

    JD, were those numbers only for athletes on scholarship, or for team
    members as a whole?

    Mac,
    
    The numbers for football and hoops players were defined as number of
    athletic recruits.  I assume recruits means those getting scholarship.
    The overall number was for all athletes, I believe.
    
    JD

    RE:  9.381
    
         Nazz, I wouldn't write-off Temple, just because Mark Macon is
    moving on.  I believe that Hodge, Kilgore, Strickland and Karstaphan
    are all back, and that John Chaney had a couple of good recruits
    (Jonathan Hayes and Eddie Jones) sitting out this year as Prop 48's.
    And of course we can't forget Temple bound, Eric Brunson, arguably the 
    No. 1A recruit out of Massachusetts this year.  (if Travis Best is the
    concensus No. 1)  Temple will have to find some scoring horsepower,
    but even if Hayes, Jones and Brunson are a bunch of bricklayers, I can
    just see Temple winning a bunch of 52-48 games on defense alone!
    
         If I had to go out on a limb as of today, I'd pick Temple as the
    early favorite, with UMASS a close second and St. Joe's, GWU and WVU 
    all in the hunt.
    
    Russ
                                                                    

    JD do you have numbers for SWAC schools, including Texas Southern ?

    Doc,
    
    I have some overall numbers for the SWC, but not the SWAC. 
    Unfortunately our cleaning person was overzealous, and through my paper
    out (which was on my desk here in the office...) So with it went the
    school-by-school breakdown.
    
    FWIW, THE SWC grad rates (male) were:  Football:  32.5, Hoops: 23.5,
    All Athletes (male): 40.6
    
    The SEC was the worst conference overall.
    
    JD

    
    > JD do you have numbers for SWAC schools, including Texas Southern ?
    
    Texas Southern graduated 44.6% of all students, 9.4% of all athletes,
    8.2% of male athletes, 13.3% of female athletes, *0.0%* of football
    recruits, and 100% (1 for 1) of basketball recruits.  Considering that
    across the country graduation rates for all athletes is better than
    for the student body at large, this is one of the more dismal
    performance records listed.
    
    I'll give the whole conference for all-students/all-athletes/football/
    basketball (Alabama St., Grambling St., and Jackson St. declined to 
    respond):
    
    Alcorn St.		35.3/ 31.0/ 23.8/ 33.3 (1of3)
    Miss Valley St.	23.1/ 64.7/ 64.0/ 75.0 (3of4)
    Prairie View	65.0/ 63.4/ 25.0/100.0 (4of4)
    Southern		14.4/ 12.1/ 10.5/  0.0 (0of3)
    Texas So.		44.6/  9.4/  0.0/100.0 (1of1) 
    
    
    Looks like Texas So. especially has a real problem in the student/athlete 
    department...
    
    glenn
     

    Travis Best has renounced his letter of intent at Georgia Tech and has
    decided to stay at home to attend the University of Massachusetts. 
    Travis was quoted as saying "UMass had a great year in the NIT and I
    want to stay close to home so my parents and all my homeboys at Central
    can come watch me play."  Rumor has it that Bill Curley is once again
    thinking about transferring after BC's dismal season.
    
    John

    All right Travis!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I knew he'd find out sooner or later that he couldn't play
    for that white-haired phony, Cremmins.  
    
    NAZZ

    I figured I'd try to slip it by, since today is, after all, April Fools
    Day.  Guess I went to the well once too often.  Oh well, I took a shot.
    
    John

    
    
    	Hey Nazz, why you gettin so excited?  You never thought much of
    Travis anyway.  BTW, did you catch the McDonald's classic allstar game?
    I thought Travis handled himself very well considering he looked really
    small out there.  He played the point very well with few turnovers 
    while scoring 15.  Didn't catch his assists though.  
    
    	Did hear some good news for UMASS during the game and that was one
    of the players (can't remember who) had signed with UMASS.  So, it
    can't be all that bad.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    
    
    	Duke dominates tourney, wins final by 7 points over
    Kansas.  Way to go Duke.
    
    
    
    Jim

    
    Duke played some great D in the second half. Kansas' shot selection
    was horrid in the second half. Alot of rushed shots. Congrats to
    Duke and coach Kyzxzxyxyxyzyxzyxzyxzyxzyzxxyski.
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    I heard something about Herndon not being eligible to play for UMASS
    next year because he played a few games for Richmond.  Anybody know
    anything about this?
    
    - Ken -

    Herndon did start his career at Richmond and then transferred.  As far
    as I know, his redshirt year (mandatory due to the transfer) took care
    of any eligibility problems.  He was listed as a junior all through the
    year so as far as I know, he's still eligible.  The phone number for
    the sports information office is (413) 545-2439 if you want to check it
    out.
    
    John

    The new Metro Conference looks like this:
    
    Louisville
    South Florida
    Southern Mississippi
    Tulane
    Virginia Commonwealth
    Virginia Tech
    UNC-Charlotte
    

    Copied without permission from the Worcester Telegram and Gazette,
    Fri., April 5, 1991.
    
    "The Worcester Centrum is compiling a list of those interested in
    tickets for the NCAA men's basketball tournament's first- and
    second-round games March 20 and 22, 1992. Write to the Worcester
    Centrum, NCAA Tickets, 50 Foster St., Worcester 01608. When details
    of the sale are known, information will be sent to those on the
    list about prices and when and where to obtain tickets. They are
    expected to go on sale in the fall."
    
    Howie 

    I read somewhere that 2G Bill McCaffrey is leaving Duke, due to
    lessened playing time.
    
    Does anyone know if this is true and where he might be transferring to?
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Yeah Hawk, his mother is the Mascot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    REK

   Yeah... Stanford.

   Might be a good move for him. Couple years from now, if he stays at
   Duke, he'd probably be just `that other guard off the bench'. If he can
   do some good at Stanford, he'll have that, plus he can lay claim to
   being one of the top scorers for Duke the year they won the NCAA.
   Pretty good credentials.

   Mike JN

    New book about IU Hoops is out, written by Robert Paul Sulek, called:
    
    Hoosier Honor:  Bob Knight and Academic Success at Indiana University.
    
    Sulek, rector of the Honors College at Johnson C. Smith University in
    North Carolina studied the classroom habits of IU athletes.  He started
    without Coach Knight's cooperation but quickly gained it.  Sulek
    determined that the IU program is an academic, as well as an athletic
    success: 43 of 48 players who completed 4 seasons of eligibility at IU
    graduated with an average 2.73 GPA.
    
    Sulek calls Knight's attitude toward his players and the sport "hard
    love...His love is powerful, demanding and often difficult to accept. 
    He cared so much for them that he corrected their mistakes, told them
    no, scolded them and made basketball practice as hard as possible on
    them os that 'life after Knight' might be just a little easier."
    
    Taken from the USA TOday, without persmission.
    
    JD

    	Oh boy.  A certain noter will be strokin' the woody reading
    this book.  8^0

 Johnson C. Smith College is right here in bee-yew-tee-ful downtown
 Charlotte.   I don't think it calls itself a "University" but I could
 be wrong.
 
 Smith is a small southern black college that usually has a kickass
 lightning fast hoops team.   They had a decent postseason this year. 
 The Smith football team is pretty poor but I did see that they had a
 late-round draft pick.   A speedy wide receiver, I think.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Nah Hawk.
    
    A better name would be MrT's House of Wax ....

    >His love is powerful, demanding and often difficult...
    
    Exquisite wording from the good Mr. Sulek, whom I salute.  But His
    love is also... easy to twist into perverted money-grubbing yellow
    journalism bent on sensationalism and damage at direct expense to
    understanding, fairness, and objectivity.
    
    Leave it to a_academic to find this love and to explain it.  Leave
    it to a pock-faced overweight self-promoting floor-flushing jizzbag
    to sell that same love for ill-gotten profit.  A season on the brink
    of what, John?  Becoming the nation's most unexpected multimillionaire?
    
    Thank you Mr. Sulek.  My love is also powerful, but isn't quite so
    demanding and is very easy, and I love you.
    
    Big10 Tom
    
             

    I just came across these few items:
    
    C Wilfred Kirkaldy, recruited by SJU, Cincinnati, Temple and WVU,
    has signed with WVU.  Kirkaldy's rape trial (remember, during his 
    visit to SU) comes up this month.
    
    C Chris Lawson is transferring from Indiana to Vanderbilt.
    
    Cliff Rozuier is looking to leave NC, and showed up at Kentucky, where
    it seems that Pitino has broken a rule in the recruitment of this
    possible transfer.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    
    
    	"His love is strong, difficult, and sometimes demanding."
    
    						Prof. Sulek, 1991

    
    
    	Hey T, gotta tell you that my pop literally bumped into Sir Bobby
    here in Springfield Mass this past weekend.  Bobby didn't slap him
    around or cuss in his face.  In fact, he was quite nice to the old man.
    Needless to say, my pop was impressed.
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Wonder what he was doing in Springield?  Bob's too danged lazy to go
    that far to recruit a nuclear widebody stud, so he musta been there 
    for some function at the Hall.
    
    Big10 Tom

    
    re. -1
    
    On the insiders they mentioned 3 new inductees into the HoF.
    The only one I remember was Nate Archibald.  Both Vescey and Ferry
    had good things to say about Tiny.  Tiny is doing work in
    Harlem for the homeless and during his career he would always be
    available for the kids in his neighborhood.  Sounds like a class
    person to me.
    
    \pjb

Well, if the Truth be told, Bob was down visitin' me.

I met him, we had lunch, and we talked about how rugby might assist him
in developing a slightly tougher squad.  He said he admires ruggers for
their intensity and fitness.

Then, I brought him into the office, and let him read the Notes file.
Ol' Bob said he's gonna swing up and see you sometime, MrT, he said he
needs some tips on how best to prepare for the next season, and would
like your "objective" viewpoint.

He also was astounded at the blind faith of the Hare Smithnas(tm), but then
said that wasn't surprising when you thought about it.  He especially
liked Bob Hunt's analysis of that southern phenomenon of the Excellent Defeat...

Bob and I shot hoops for a while at the hoop out back, and then grabbed
a quick pizza before he headed back to Springfield to catch a charter
helicopter to NJ.  Seems he wanted to stop in and see Bill Parcells on
his way home...

There you have it.....
'Saw

    I remember years ago when Nate was getting elbowed by a big guy
    who was playing him nasty outta disrepspect for his diminutive 
    size.  Forget who it was, but I *do* remember ol' Nate delivering
    a_uppercut that sent the giant down like a bad oak tree, out like 
    a light.  The guy was tough.
    
    re: Bob
    
    Bob could use some tips on toughening up his squad, for this bunch
    is rather thin and nonphysical.  They allegedly hit the weights last
    year, but it was more a the same: only Eric Anderson was strong (with
    the possible exception of the musclebound 6-0 Jamaal Meeks).  True,
    Pat Graham was feisty, but he's still a willowly young main to be
    playing the front line.
    
    Next year's #2 recruit, Brian Evans, looks like he might fill the 
    narrow body gap handsomely. Here's hoping.
    
    I'd like to see the Hoosiers toughen up.  Nothing to the extent, mind
    you, of the Star Hls, who attacked the police in a_exhibit a poor
    sportsmainship after their inexplicable loss to Kansas, but a good 
    clean tough like you see with the good kids.
    
    MrT

    Dave Cowens, the founder of the players union, Larry O'Brien and Mr.
    Knight were other inductees...
     

    
    	re: Sir Knight
    
    	Actually, Sir Bobby was at the Springfield Civic center watching
    some possible future prospects.  The Elks organization held their 
    national Hoop Shoot finals this year in Springfield.  Bob has spoken
    and coached an all-star team at the annual event (before insurance
    costs made the Elk's cancel the game) before, and I guess he decided
    to pop in and take a peek at some of the best foulshooters around.
    
    
    							bill..g.
    

    Dave Cowens was a helluva player.  It seems like NBA centers haven't
    kept pace with the fowards and guards (especially the guards).  My
    money sez that ol' Dave could make the All-Star team rht now, with
    his quick footed physical style he'd fit in great with a running 
    team.
    
    re: Bob
    
    He's got a scholarship since Chris Lawson left for Vanderbilt. 
    Hopefully he'll use it to pick up a quick widebody off the east coast.
    This Fogler (sp?) guy at Northeastern has made a career outta using
    "tweeners" who're quick and tough but for some reason not good enough
    to be recruited by the big east coast programs.  I'd like to see him
    pick up a nice 6-6 banger to give him some inside D and muscle.
    
    MrT

    James Wheeler, a former Baylor hoop player, filed a 3 million dollar
    lawsuit accussing former Baylor coach Jim Haller of helping him
    purchase steroids and inducing him to take the drug.
    
    Former Marshall men's hoop star Skip Henderson, the Southern
    Conference's all-time scorer, has been jailed on armed robbery charges
    in Cartersville, GA, after he was identified in a police lineup by a
    store clerk as the man who robbed her at gunpoint.
    
    JD

    
    >    James Wheeler, a former Baylor hoop player, filed a 3 million dollar
    >lawsuit accussing former Baylor coach Jim Haller of helping him
    >purchase steroids and inducing him to take the drug.
    
    Unbelievable.  Doesn't anyone take responsibility for his/her own
    actions anymore?
    
    Dickstah
    

    >Doesn't anyone take responsibility for his/her own actions anymore?
    
    We'll find out when the jug eared Paul Westhaid and Payola Moneycount
    finally go to court for their gross negligience and wanton disregard
    for human life in the Gaithers case.
    
    I'd like to see Payola banned from all NCAA sports for 5 years and
    that slave driver Jughaid banned for life.  Maybe Magic knew what he
    was doing when he fired ol' big ears from his job with the Lakers.
    
    MrT

    The Minutemen are certainly showing some cojones this season.  After
    playing in the Great Alaska Shootout, we stop in Lexington, Kentucky on
    the way home to visit Rupp Arena and play the University of Kentucky
    Wildcats (the only one of the great college programs that wears a real
    shade of blue instead of that wimpy looking Baby Blue).  Later on the
    season, besides the home rematch against Xavier, we have an interesting
    guest visiting the Springfield Civic Center.  On Saturday night,
    January 4, the Sooner Schooner arrives.  Yes, folks, the coach everyone
    loves to hate, Billy Tubbs, brings the Sooners in for an evening of fun
    and games.
    
    John

John, that's great.

By playing teams of a higher caliber, you build character, and skill,
and it should improve the teams play against their regular league opponents.

'Saw

    John,
    
    Are the Minutemen picking up a check for the Kaintuck and Oklahoma
    games, or are these legit "contests"?
    
    Prediction:	UK over UMass by alot.  Oklahoma over UMass by alot.
    
    I'll also go out on a limb and predict they won't come home from Alaska
    with a Shootout Title, although I understand the field isn't up to
    snuff cause of the NCAA's changed policy regarding games outside the
    Continental USA not counting toward your total number of games played.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Of course, we're picking up a check.  We certainly wouldn't play these
    games for nothing.
    
    On a more serious note, if we were playing these games in the early-mid
    eighties, then they wouldn't be contests at all.  Now, they are.  This
    isn't a team that would ever go deep into the NCAA tournament but it's
    a solid team in its league and on its level.  This is a team that also
    went to the Final Four of the NIT last year and should have better
    players this year.  I don't have National Championship hopes for this
    team and I don't even have realistic hopes of winning the Atlantic 10
    except as a fluke.
    
    I don't expect us to win either game.  I especially don't expect us to
    win at Kentucky.  I expect us to give Oklahoma a decent game and
    perhaps win it if we catch them napping.  I don't expect us to win in
    Alaska either.
    
    Unlike being a fan of a powerhouse team, I've learned to be happy with
    whatever I can get.  I'm happy with exciting, competitive basketball. 
    A fan of a team that is a powerhouse should be satisfied with nothing
    less than excellence.
    
    John  

    > A fan of a team that is a powerhouse should be satisfied with nothing
    > less than excellence.
    
    Exactly why I'm so satisfied all the time!  ;^)
    
    BTW, I mentioned previously that UNC, IU, and UCLA were the top
    uniforms in college basketball.  This is true, based on a survey
    conducted by SPORT magazine.  Seems people like the tradition of these
    three (3) powerhouses.
    
    Also it was widely reported last year that Carolina hired some
    well-known fashion designer to redesign the UNC uniforms.  Michael
    Jordan was gonna do the modeling, etc.
    
    Well, the only thing being redesigned is the Carolina *warm up* sweats,
    not the tradition V-neck uniform.  Jordan might still model these, but
    rest assured folks, you'll still see the traditional UNC jerseys out
    there once the warm ups have been peeled.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    OK, who has the worst college BBall uneeform ?
    
    When me alma mater wears it's solid yellers at home ( they say it's
    gold, fer Blue and Gold, but it looks piss yella ta me ) they look 
    a mighty unsightly.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    I think UMass can give Oklahoma a run for their money.  We'll see what
    the teams look like early in the season, but OU's down, and in a game
    in unfamiliar surroundings I can see them struggling...
    
    glenn
    

 Yeah Glenn but Billy's reloaded with JC's again. He's getting better though
 he only brought in 6 this year. He's still got Sallier, Webster and Price so 
 let us not feel too bad for Mr. Tubbs. Still though UMASS is one tough little
 team emphasis on TEAM. OU has never been an outstanding road team. Much more
 devastating at home..

 some great quotes in Sports on their rankings. In talking to Coach K

  SPORT: "So how's the best coach in the country feeling?"

  Coach K: "I don't know but I'll call him in Bloomington ILL and find out
            for you."

  Dean Smith on Kansas "They're running our stuff, and darn it if they don't
             look better doing it."

    I certainly don't agree with John.  I expect a championship for UMass
    in the Great Alaska Shootout, and I think the Umies have a real chance
    to stuff it to Tubbs.  I'll be there, hurling insults at that pompous,
    self-promoting egomaniac.
    
    This is our year.  The Final Four is not out of the question!
    
    NAZZ

    John, the UMass UK game has some added significance for coach Pitino as
    I believe that's his alma mater.  He indicated last year that he felt
    UMass has a pretty decent program.
    
    Bravo Pitino!
    
     - Wildcat

         Deep within Rick P's money-grubbing, ship-jumping, overly
    egotistical personality, exists a soft spot for UMASS, and for the
    pleasant days he spent in Amherst as an undergrad.  Not wanting to 
    embarrass his alma mater (and still hopeful of having his number
    retired, along side the Doctor's one day), he will tone down the 
    exuberance of his youthful Wildcats.  UMASS will come in hungry,
    having been knocked out of the Great Alaskan Shootout in a semifinal game.
    Jim McCoy will finally rise to the occasion in a big game and torch
    Jamal Mashburn and company for 32 points.  Harper Williams will
    pitch in with an 18 point, 12 rebound, 3 block effort.  UMASS 81 -
    Kaintuck 74!!!  Somewhere in Blue Grass Country Adolph slowly rolls
    over in his grave.  Yesssssssssss!!!
    
         Quick Nazz, do something, I'm having these hallucinations again.
    Maybe taking in that Dead Show at the Garden last week wasn't a good
    idea.  
    
    Russ

>         Quick Nazz, do something, I'm having these hallucinations again.
>    Maybe taking in that Dead Show at the Garden last week wasn't a good
>    idea.  
    

Russ discovers SPORTshrooms(tm)!  News @ 11......

    >> Deep within Rick P's money-grubbing, ship-jumping, overly
    >> egotistical personality ...
    
    You're kidding right?  Surely your not comparing Mr. Pitino to one
    Larry Brown?  Each move Pitino has made has been a "career move". 
    After turning the Friars around, he moved to the NBA.  Good move. 
    After turning the lowly Knicks around, he moved to one of the top 5
    collegiate programs in the country.  Good move.  Fact is, if it weren't
    for Bianci, he may have still been with the Knicks.
    
    If being overly egotistical means believing in yourself, and expecting
    the most from yourself and everyone around you, than I'll buy that!	
    Pitino exudes confidence.  Witness the job done at UK the last two
    years.  Nothing short of MIRACULOUS!  IMHO, one of the brightest, more
    innovative young coaches in America.  BTW, I doubt you'll see Pitino
    embarrass UK as Knight and Tarkanian have done for their respective
    schools.
    
    :-)
    
     - Wildcat

    Re:  9.440
    
         Actually, when not under the influence of organic psychedelics
    (ie. SPORTSschrooms (tm)), I am a big fan of Rick Pitino's.  After
    all, he is a fellow alum, and next to Cosby and the creators of the
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles phenomenon, he is among the most 
    financially successful of the recent crop (last 20 years) of 
    UMASS grads. ;^)
    
         Seriously though, the only question remaining regarding Pitino's
    coaching ability, is whether he can keep a mature, seasoned team,
    motivated and successful.  His track record with taking "down and
    out" teams and making them winners can not be questioned.  He has
    yet to stick around long enough at any one place to exhibit any
    staying power however.  
    
    Russ

    Re: 9.441
    
    	UK fans are hoping that he'll honor his seven year contract.  I
    didn't know much about him until he came to UK.  He certainly has won
    the hearts of UK fans with his "We will overcome and beat the world"
    type attitude.
    
    I'm not sure yet how good of a recruiter he is.  This year is a big
    year recruiting wise for the 'Cats.  The incoming freshman class this
    year was just so-so according to most recruiting experts.  There are a
    couple of names to remember though.
    
    	 - Dale Brown - JC transfer.  Had reputation has JC's best 3-point
           shooter.
    
    	 - Travis Ford - Missouri transfer.  Will give Sean Woods run for
           money at point guard.
    
     - Wildcat

    re: .437
    
    I know Rick.  He was a senior when I was a freshman and beginning to
    work in the Athletic Department.  I like Rick.  He was very helpful to
    me when I first got started and was quite unlike anybody I'd met up
    until then - a fast-talking, street smart New Yorker who could sell ice
    to eskimos.
    
    John

    re: Russ
    
    Excellent critique of Pitino.  Without a doubt he's one of the top
    young coaches in the USA.  The *only* thing he hasn't proven is that he
    can maintain a program at the top for a period of years.  This is that
    extra step that coaches like CoachK and Roy Williams have accomplished
    that Rick hasn't.  
    
    
    re: JHendry
    
    John was kind enough to make a copy of a picture of Pitino from his
    UMass Yearbook that still hangs in my office.  It shows a very youthful
    Rick with his arm around some female playmate, both wearing
    somewhat_intoxicated faces whilst holding large schooners of brew in
    their hands.  Priceless!
    
    The thing I hate about Pitino is that I like him, and it therefore
    makes it difficult for me to maintain my usual top-shelf hatred of the
    Kaintucks.  I am a little peeved that he cancelled his 7-year contract
    with UNC, after amassing an 0-2 start.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Russ,  how could you forget the DOCTOR???

 ;^)

    Ex-USC testing coordinator Matthew Duncan says he was ordered by school
    officials, threatening dismissal, to end a study of the school's
    academically at-risk student-athletes.  He said the school didn't want
    disclosures of athletes with serious reading deficiencies.
    
    Please NOTE that this is for all sports, not just hoops...
    
    JD

    I called the Springfield Civic Center Box Office regarding tickets
    for the UMass-Oklahoma game January 4th.  I was told they won't go on
    sale until some time in November.
    
    NAZZ

    Anyone hear anything about the NCAA's at the Centrum or did I miss
    that?
    

	Two pre-season top 20s (hope the Hoosiers are really that good):

	Basketball Digest		Sport Magazine
	-----------------		--------------

	1.  Duke			1.  Duke
	2.  Indiana			2.  Kentucky
	3.  Arkansas			3.  Kansas
	4.  North Carolina		4.  Arizona
	5.  Kentucky			5.  Arkansas
	6.  Ohio State			6.  Indiana
	7.  Seton Hall			7.  UCLA
	8.  LSU				8.  Seton Hall
	9.  Arizona			9.  LSU
	10. St. John's			10. St. John's
	11. Wake Forest			11. Oklahoma St.
	12. Oklahoma St.		12. Connecticutt
	13. UCLA			13. Ohio State
	14. Oklahoma			14. North Carolina
	15. Utah			15. Oklahoma
	16. Connecticutt		16. Georgetown
	17. Iowa			17. Iowa
	18. Kansas			18. Georgia Tech
	19. New Orleans			19. Illinois
	20. Xavier			20. Arizona St.

    Well if I'm Kansas, I'm real confused - 3rd in one poll and 18th in the
    other.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

>    Well if I'm Kansas, I'm real confused - 3rd in one poll and 18th in the


Scientific studies prove most people in Kansas *are* confused....


[JUST KIDDING!]

'Saw

What confused people about Kansas is that they beat No Carolina in the
NCAAs so nobody can tell how good they are. As we all know, the Tar Heels
lost that game by playing within the System. By design.

TTom

    Carolina was fourth in one poll (WAY too high) and 14th in the other. 
    (Possibly too low.)  Kentucky 2nd??  I can't see it.  Also one of the 
    polls left Wake completely out of their top 20, while the other had 'em 
    11th.   No way is Wake Forest *not* a Top 20 team, even with Childress 
    out for the 1st half of the year ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris -
    
    I see no reason why UNC shouldn't be ranked at least 4th.  They have a
    good nucleus back, plus the 'greatest recruited class ever' is a year
    older.
    
    Sport Mag is a joke when it comes to polls anyway....
    
    JD

    Kansas people are confused all right.  Who cain forget their infamous
    Title run when, with 4 seconds to go and a point down, they inbound the
    ball, made several passes, dribbled around, and finally got a lay-in
    just before the buzzer because, as real-time replays proved, the local
    timekeeper failed to start the clock until they had Danny Manning set
    up, and that the whole play actually took 9-10 seconds.
    
    I don't know who put the curse on Jed Heatcoate, cuz only 2 years later
    he saw *another* Final Four appearance go down the drain when Kenny
    Anderson received a pass, bent his knees to launch into a jump shot,
    the buzzer sounded, Kenny jumped, and released the shot 1-2 seconds
    after the game had ended, the ref turned to Bobby Cremins, who made the
    basket signal whilst staring into the ref's eyes, and the ref (a_ACC
    ref) went along and awarded a basket scored well after the game had 
    clearly ended.
    
    Big10 Tom

    > I see no reason why UNC shouldn't be ranked at leat 4th.
    
    I'm not surprised, since it'll allow you to scream "UNDERACHIEVEMENT!"
    when we don't meet your accelerated expectations.
    
    This team has ONE (1) senior on it.  It's missing two (2) players who
    were selected in the first round of the NBA draft.  It has no backup
    PG, and its starter has a gimpy knee.  It also lost perhaps its most
    talented player to transfer.  
    
    Now, I'm not gonna say we're not gonna have a good team - I think it
    will be good.  But a team this young has no place in the Top 4. 
    Many ACC experts are picking UNC to finish 3rd in the ACC, given the
    strengh of this years Wake Forest team.  
    
    Realistically I'd hope for a Top 10 AP/UPI finish.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris,
    
    Hey, all I heard in papers after the tourney last year was how
    Carolina, as usual, was loaded, and poised for another run.
    
    I'm sure you are happy being #14, and already making excuses and 
    setting low expectation - so you can strut your chest about over
    achievement. 
    
    I don't think they will miss King Rice or Chilicutt that much.  And
    Brick Fox - in the regular season maybe, but come tourney time, they
    aren't going to miss his 'accuracy'.
    
    Who you kidding.  It will be UNC and Duke for the Acc-title, and the
    Tar Hells will get no lower than  3 seed in the tourney - but probably
    a 2 seed in either the East or southeast bracket, with the first rounds
    close to home.
    
    JD

    Arizona has 2 schools in the top 20!

 I could have written .453 with my eyes closed....

 "I'd settle for a top 10 AP/UPI finish"....this in a nutshell says it all
 about Tar Heel fans and why they worship Dean...

 If Georgetown with it's returning bricklayers and Mourning moving back into
 the paint doesn't win it all I'll be upset...

  Agreed JD that Sport just tries to be as outrageous as possible with their
  rankings hoping to get away with an I told you so. 

 mike

    >Now, I'm not gonna say we're not gonna have a good team - I think 
    >this team will be good.
    
    Go ahaid, ACCrisp, git it off your strutting chest.  Say it: 
    
    
    		They'll be good enough for a_Excellent Sweet16 Loss
    
    There.  Feel better now?
    
    Big10 Tom

    Sport Magazine had Massachusetts rated #35 in the country so they
    cain't be all bad.
    
    John

         I can see it now.  October 14th, 1991, 11:30 p.m.  4200 fanatical
    fans crammed into the antiquated Curry Hicks Cage on the campus of the
    University of Massachusetts at Amherst, for the annual "Midnight
    Madness" kickoff to the college basketball season.  As they await
    the midnight hour, and the opportunity to welcome this year's team,
    a rhythmic chant begins:
    
       We're number 35!!!  We're number 35!!!  We're number 35!!!
    
         As an alum, it gives me goose-bumps just thinking about it.
    
    Russ

And as I munch on some more SPORTshrooms, I can see this:


	It's March.  A vastly overachieving UMass team has made the
	NCAA tourney for the first time in a LONG time.  Unfortunately
	for them, they've drawn the Tar Heels for their opening match.

	The Minutemen [used ta be Redmen a long time ago, no?] stay	
	close all game, through grit, determination, and good old
	American know-how.

	Late in the game they start a surge.  On the Carolina bench
	Dean-o is grabbing his throat, his eye a-bulging outta his
	haid.  One of his seniors is in there and every possession
	the System demands he get the ball.  Every time he gets
	the ball, he doesn't just throw up a brick, oh no, he throws
	up a whole hod of bricks.  Clang, Clang, Clang...it sounds
	like a late 19th century fire brigade coming down the street.

	Finally with 35 seconds left, the Snuffmeister himself can
	take it no longer.  Screaming at the top of his nicotine-damaged
	lungs, he makes a remark about the ref's mother, then tries to
	tell the ref he was calling a "switch, I was saying 'on a switch'"

	The ref tosses Snuffy, and UMass hangs in to give the Tar
	Heels their greatest tourney upset ever, winning by three points.


'Saw

    We have made the NCAA tournament once in our history, in 1962 and lost
    to New York University in the first game.
    
    We were the Redmen until the early seventies when we changed to the
    Minutemen.
    
    And as far as the hypothetical result against the Heels goes, I'd love
    it.
    
    John

    Wildcat, YOU are the one who's embarrassed.  First you recruit Shawn
    Kemp with $50,000 or so, then have a_asst. coach so stupid that $10,000
    ends up on the floor of Emery Air Freight's processing floor.
    
    Yeah, U. Kaintuck is something to be proud of awright.  I cain see
    where you'd be jealous of Tark, with his Mafia lawyers and media spin
    control and competent crooks he's taken a page outta Kaintuck's crooked
    cook book and raised it to High Art.  
    
    Meanwhile, Bob has NEVER, EVER done anything wrong.  Done a lot right,
    though.  Like running a program so squeaky clean that he never has had
    a bench jammed with nuclear widebody studs yet has won 9 conference
    Titles and THREE big-time Titles in only 20 years.  
    
    He's up alongside your beloved Adolph in the Pantheon, Mildcat.  Isn't
    that what makes you so sick?  (And I *do* mean sick, very very sick.)
    
    Big10 Tom

    16.46 >> Rolly you're nothing but a cheep shot artist...
    
    Tsk, Tsk MrT.  If this isn't the pot calling the kettle black.  You
    have the nerve to call Rolly a cheep (sic) shot artist?  After I've
    labored through two miserable probation laden seasons, you have the
    gall to pour salt in the wound and bring up Shawn Kemp, etc.  For
    shame, for shame, for shame, MrT.  Can't say I'm surprised.  I mean we
    essentially are creatures of habit.  After worshiping Mr. Humble for so
    many years, his egotistical, holier-than-thou attitude, has obviously
    crept into your inner being.  Try to come to grip with things MrT. 
    Come forward and admit you've been tainted by the "win at all costs"
    attitude of Indiana University.  I'm sure your fellow noters in SPORTS
    will comfort you in your hour of need.  Haw, Haw, Haw!
    
    9.465 >> First you recruit Shawn Kemp with $50,000 or so, then have
          >> a_asst. coach so stupid that $10,000 ends up on the floor
          >> of Emery Air Freight's processing floor.
    
    In the first place, Shawn Kemp's name was never brought in the NCAA
    lynching (oops, investigation) of UK.  Where did you come up with this
    $50,000?  Secondly, it was $1,000 that ended up on Emery Air Freight's
    floor, not $10,000!  Reaching a bit aren't we MrT?  Objective Sports
    Anaylst, Haw, Haw, Haw.  BTW, earlier this year Emery reached an out of
    court settlement with Dwayne Casey regarding that messy $1,000.  Logic
    dictates that if they had a shred of evidence against Casey, they
    wouldn't have rolled over and handed him a lifetime's worth of
    earnings.  And isn't it curious that one little package from Lexington,
    KY just happened to pop open amongst millions that pass thru Emery's
    world hub?  Sheesh, give me a break!
    
    9.465 >> Meanwhile, Bob has NEVER, EVER done anything wrong.  
    
    Whoaaaa Nellie!  This statement alone proves that you're living in an
    egotistical fantasy world.  Wake up and smell the coffee!
    
    9.465 >> Isn't that what make you so sick? (And I *do* mean sick, very
    very sick.)
    
    Now I ask my fellow SPORTS noters.  Who is the sick one here?  Who has
    blatantly twisted logic for his own gain?  Who has used double speak to
    win arguments?  Who has intentionally sought sympathy from others by
    pretending to leave the company in order to feed a starving ego?
    
    Let the jury speak!
     
    :-) :-)
    
    Wildcat

    ...but then again, Kentucky will be the best team in college ball this
    year...
    
    No bout a doubt it. (really sic)
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach (THE Kentucky Basketball Fan)

    Point out something that Bjob's done wrong.  I cain't remember one.
    As for "win at all costs" in the IU program, again you cheat the
    facks.  Shawn Kemp told several of the IU players that he "would need
    many thousands of dollars" to play for Indiana, largely because he had
    cash offers from several schools.  Unlike U. Kaintuck, IU has a long,
    sad history of paying $0.00 per hour.  You cain see it just by looking
    down the Hoosiers' bench, which doesn't even remotely resemble that of
    the rock-solid crook programs like SyrExcuse, Gougetown, UNLV, NC Skate,
    Oklahoma, Illinois, Memphis State, and... U. Kaintuck.
    
    The same thing has happened over the years, usually with nuclear
    widebodies.  This is why Indiana dropped out a the competition for that
    big kid at Illinois now.  He put his number on the street, Bob demurred,
    and the bidding war ensued with "coach" Lou HitSome coming out on top.
    
    Cheating pays, and Bob don't cheat.  Yes, no doubt not paying dough (in
    addition to not putting up with poor behavior in and out a the classroom 
    like, say, for instance, Dean Smif') has lowered his overall winning % 
    and caused him to play 6-2 white people at strong forward leading to early
    round losses in the NCAA, but now excuses are necessary: He's won THREE 
    and we've won FIVE and we're now tied with your crooked program and are 
    poised to surpass it on the all-time list!
    
    Face it, MildCat: U. Kaintuck is a documented scumball program.
    
    Big10 JTom

    > Point out something that Bjob's done wrong.
    
    Boy, talk about yer hanging curve balls.  Here's my short list:
    
    o The Fan.  Bob punched out an LSU fan during the mid-70's, resulting
      in charges being brought against him by the poor slob who was on
      the receiving end of Bob's emotional outburst.
    
    o The Book.  Clear documentation of Knight verbally abusing
      players.  His practice and courtside tantrums are legendary,
      but here we get first-hand news that he demeans, insults, frightens,
      and utterly humiliates his players.
    
    o The Chair.  In perhaps a one-of-a-kind event, Bob hurls a chair
      across the playing floor in protest of alleged bad officiating.
    
    o The Russians.  Knight pulls his team off the floor in protest over
      alleged bad officiating, resulting in a black eye and complete
      embarassment for USA basketball.
    
    o The Cop.  Bob fights with a Puerto Rican peace officer.  He's still
      a wanted criminal in our 51st state.
    
    o Connie Chung.  Bob scores big points for himself by stating during
      and interview that females being raped should just 'lay back and 
      enjoy it'.  
    
    
    Hope this jogs your memory, MorT.  Haw haw!!11
    
    
    - ACC Chris

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Hawk,

I bit. I'm not sure what it means but I figured there was something way
down there at or about line 102.

TTom

>Hawk,
>
>I bit. I'm not sure what it means but I figured there was something way
>down there at or about line 102.

Nah, it was just in reaction to ACC Chris hauling out his file on Bob.
I'm sure it must just be a file he includes in his reply edit session,
because it always looks the same, right down to the Haw-Haws...

I was tempted to put a big [YAWN] down at 102, but then I figured people
would actually expect something like that and actually read the whole
thang....8^)

What I was really hoping for, Saw, was that it would break into some
kinda Rap Ditty.

TTom

    I'm sure everybody was YAWNing at my boring note.  But then again, what
    did ya expect when MorT said Bob had never done anything wrong?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Re 9.469
    
    It's no use Chris.  You can argue with IU fans 'till your blue in tha
    face about Bob.  Fact is, they will find a way to justify his boorish
    antics.  Take it from a man who grew up in Hoosier country.  Poor Ralph
    Floyd (may he rest in peace).  IU's former distinguished AD let Bob run
    roughshod over him for years.  Any other AD with a spine would have
    clamped down on Mr. Humble big time after n number of embarrassments.
    
    MrT since you seem to revel in mud-slinging and rumors, try this one on
    for size.  Dost thou remember the Mike Giomi, cheerleader incident in
    the early '80s.  Should we bring up this sordid affair with our fellow 
    noters?
    
    C'mon MrT, just be objective with us.  I'll admit that UK has had some
    problems in the past.  They have righted their ship though.  Bob is
    obviously an excellent student and teacher of the game.  He is not
    however *perfect* as you Hoosier fans would have us believe.  IMHO, he
    has brought just as much embarrassment to IU as accolades.
    
    Wildcat

 Cmon on Crisp, you trying to tell me you weren't sitting back with joy enjoying
 T and Cat battle it out? I'm sure you were perfectly content to just "lay back
 and enjoy it" until T took umbrage over the Deanster's lack of discipline on
 and off campus....

 Hey wasn't the defense coach of the Bills doing the "Dean Cheer" the other 
 night?

    Yeah, Mildcat, I remember Giomi's problems.  I also remember that even 
    though he was their best player at the time, 100% academically eligible,
    and beyond the rumor mill only documented as a chronic class cutter...
    and that he was thrown out a IU's hoops program by Bob (and was embraced 
    by Jim Vulvano) thereby lowering his overall winning % and other totems 
    closely-held by a certain unnamed faux alumnus in here.  Same goes for 
    Ricky Calloway and his lazy work habits and PT demands.  Gone.  Helped 
    Kansas though, and he now plays in the NBA.
    
    Ditto HS All-America Tommy Baker and other prize frosh recruits when
    they got caught smoking reefer in a hotel room at the Great Alaskan
    Shootout.
    
    That's the key, Mildcat: Bob runs the cleanest program in existence.
    No prop 48s, no money-grubbing U. Kaintuck-style Shawn Kemps (the best
    player to come outta Hoosierland since Larry Bird) ... no nothing.
    
    As for Bob's alleged misdeeds (ref. "same tired refrain") where's the
    beef?  Especially relatively speaking.  Norm Stewart starts a riot.
    "Coach" John Stompshim attacks Pitino.  Snuffy Smif's assistant accosts
    a ref and his players rumble with the police, not to mention wrist-slaps
    to women-beaters.  Jerry Tarkanian's guard miraculously does multimillion
    dollar business deals.  $80,000 and a Chevy Blazer in Champain-Urbana.
    
    No, MrT is being objective on this.  Bob has never perpetrated a_egregious
    act and you know it.  Self-defense is to be expected from a stud like Bob.
    Gingerly tossing a chair is nothing compared to the cash-toting, riot-
    inducing, transcript-altering crooks that haunt the game.  
    
    And it's not like Bob is the only coach to yell at his players.
    
    All the "same tired refrain" amounts to is a half-assed  diversion from
    the simple fack that even with his lousy recruitng Bob has taken his seat
    alongside Adolph and Hank and John in the Pantheon - while Dean Smif' has
    squandered more talent than a stuttering cross-eyed street pimp.
    
    Big10 Tom
    

    >> Yeah, Mildcat, I remember Giomi's problems...
    
    I'm a bit surprised MrT.  I wasn't sure how widespread this little
    rumor was.  Guess bad news travels fast when Hoosier Hysteria's
    concerned.
    
    I repeat, I think that Bob Knight is one of the best teachers the game
    as ever seen.  The only gripe I've ever had with the man is his
    behavior on and off the court.  You're quite correct in pointing out
    that Bob isn't the only coach to yell at his players.  But, he is one
    of the few that makes a fool out of himself on a regular basis during
    press conferences, etc.
    
    I've always thought that as long as a person worships Bob and stays on
    his good side, then he will support them.  As soon as any sort of
    constructive criticism is offered though, he goes berserk.  The man is
    an obsessive egomaniac.  Witness what happened between him and Bill
    Frieder a coupla years back.  During the Michigan - IU game, Knight was
    getting on the officials.  Frieder started yelling that Knight deserved
    a technical.  Afterwards, during the press conference, Knight lambasted
    Frieder for saying anything against his Highness. 
    Interesting to note that before this game the two were good friends!
    Face it, Bob's a "LEGEND IN HIS OWN MIND!".
    
    BTW, how can you keep a straight face when saying that Bob doesn't
    routinely have nuclear wide-body studs on his bench?  Each of his 3
    championship teams had more than their fair share of high-school All
    Americans.  Granted, he could've used a "true" center the last coupla
    years, but he still had some of the best recruiting classes in the
    nation.
    
    Bravo Pitino!
    
     - Wildcat

Has anyone seen Bob Knight and Buddy Ryan together?

TTom

    >Each of his 3 championship teams had more than their fair share of
    >High School All-Americans
    
    Now wait just a minute, Mildcat.  The '87 squad *maybe* had Steve
    Alford, who at best was well down the HS-AA list if he was on it at
    all.  He was (and is) a slow-footed no-jump WMD-afflicted 6-2 white
    person.  The balance a that team was primarily made up of castoffs 
    who were either not heavily recruited outta high school or not
    recruited at all.  "More than their fair share?"
    
    The '81 squad had Isiah, the most sought after player ever signed by
    Bob.  Beyond that they had Landon Turner who was a HS-AA also.  The
    balance a that team was largely non-blue chip material.
    
    I cain't think a a single Bob squad that had "more than its fair share
    of high school All-Americas."  I cain think a many squads who have that
    regularly, though: Michigan, Kaintuck, Blew Heels, Duke (of late), 
    SyrExcuse, and so on.  
    
    Bob's strengths have been in moulding role players, not reaping harvests
    of blue chippers.
    
    As for his behavior on and off the court you point to the Freider incident.
    Again, "coach" Bill Fritter had spent the previous two years baiting Bob
    in the press, bad mouthing him to recruits, and otherwise making himself
    look the fool that even most Wolverines fans admit that he is.  Then he
    jumps into a dispute between Bob and the ref.  Whaddya want, Bob to go
    along with that whiney little chimp?  His lambasting of Fritter was right
    on and perfectly appropriate.
    
    While I admit that Bob baits the press for fun, unlike you I don't see
    the sports press and people deserving of respect.  Remember, this is a 
    group that extolls that shrill little creep Mike Lupica.  'Nuff said.
    
    Beyond that, Bob yells much less frequently than most coaches.  He's 
    probably tied with Dr. Malpractice and Fisher in the Big10 as the quietest
    bench coach.  If you want near-insane behavior along the sidelines please
    refer to Gene Keady and Jud Heathcoate in the Big10, and any number of
    coaches outside the conference (Stompshim, BayWhine, Stewart, Richardson,
    Tubbs, Olson, Dean Smif' et al).  Among this group you've got guys who
    either never quit whining or bitching and, in the case of the likes of
    Stewart, Stompshim and others have been known to foment on-court violence,
    which may be far less useful for highlight films but is far more serious
    if you wanna criticize coaching behavior.
    
    I think your complaint with Bob is that when he *does* go off he is the
    most effective in the business.  Who cain forget his phone set intimidation
    job in that NCAA and what it meant to his team's chances at a Title?
    
    As to Giomi, you make my point.  A college coach shouldn't necessarily
    be held responsible for a player behavior problem, but he definitely should
    account for his disposition of it.  Bob's career is littered with transfers
    who Bob got rid of cuz their behavior was such that he didn't want them
    in his program or on the IU campus.  Most were key players, such as Giomi.
    The list is a long and proud one: Baker, Miday, ThunderBurp, Edwards, 
    Calloway, and so on.  Others tranferred out for the normal and to my
    mind perfectly good reason: Lack of PT.
    
    That's where Bob separates himself from most a his peers.  He sacrifices
    hoops interests where unacceptable behavior comes in.  Compare that to
    coach's who, say, recruit a Tito Horford, express cash-packed envelopes
    to prize recruits, alter transcripts, arrange surrogate test-takers, or,
    worse, tacitly endorse woman-beating.
    
    If you have a problem with Bob's stern handling of Giomi's behavior I
    don't.  I hope to see his approach continue and will be proud for it.
    
    Big10 Tom                                                            

    
    I hear that the pre-season college polls are out.  Anyone care to list 
    them here, please.  
    
    /Jeff

    
    Glad to oblige ya /Jeff,
    
    It's a long, comprehensive list so to make it easier to read, I've
    broken it up a bit...
    
    A ALMOST COMPLETE LIST OF THE PRE-SEASON COLLEGE HOOPS POLLS
    
    
    
    AP
    UPI
    Coaches
    Dick Vitale
    Petersons
    SI
    Street & Smiths
    TSN
    Individual Conference Coaches
    Aunt Millie
    
    and many others.
    
    HTH,
    ;^)
    Kev
    

                           Points
1. Duke (49)                1606
2. Indiana (11)             1533
3. Arkansas (3)             1390
4. Kentucky                 1278
5. Arizona                  1276
6. LSU (1)                  1171
7. Ohio State               1158
8. North Carolina           1135
9. Seton Hall (1)           1096
10. St. John's              1077
11. UCLA                    1048
12. Kansas                   889
13. Oklahoma State           864
14. Utah                     684
15. Connecticut              628
16. Georgetown               532
17. Alabama                  483
18. DePaul                   364
19. Oklahoma                 341
20. Michigan                 329
21. Iowa                     322
22. Wake Forest              319
23. Georgia Tech             258
24. Arizona State            247
25. Louisville               103

   Others receiving votes: Texas 88, Virginia 87, Syracuse 82, Memphis State 72,
Florida State 70, UNLV 64, Missouri 55, Villanova 40, Houston 39, Pepperdine 39,
Michigan State 34, Richmond 34, New Orleans 29, Xavier (OH) 21, Kent 17, 
Illinois 16, Southern Cal 14, Stanford 14, Georgia 12, Rice 12, Temple 12, 
North Carolina State 11, Massachusetts 10, Penn State 10, Brigham Young 9, 
Nebraska 9, Notre Dame 9, Princeton 8, South Carolina 8, Tulane 8, Wyoming 8, 
East Tennessee State 6, Southern Mississippi 6, Boston College 5, 
Fresno State 5, Louisiana Tech 5, Murray State 5, South Alabama 5, Wisconsin-
Green Bay 5, Tennessee 4, North Carolina-Charlotte 2, New Mexico State 2,
Cincinnati 1, Mississippi State 1, Washington State 1.

    >Kent 17
    
    This is very strange since they aren't even picked to win the MAC. 
    Most preseason mags I've read say it will come down to Ball State or
    Ohio U (both of which are not mentioned in the "others receiving
    votes").
    
    >North Carolina-Charlotte 2,
    
    Could be a big surprise this year.  They've got two studs, Henry
    Williams (Sr.) and Jarvis Lange ('90 Frosh of the year in the SunBelt). 
    It will be interesting to see how jumping to the Metro conference will
    affect them.
    
    	--dan'l

    	Indiana ranked #2?  Can we assume if FatBob doesn't git these
    fellas into the Final Two he underachieved?
    
    				/Don

    Polls are meaningless in sports where a tournament is held to determine
    the champion ....

    re: .488
    
    Correct assessment, /Don.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    John H, polls aside, if we use the same yardstick on Bob that we use on
    Dean, the Hoosiers will have underacheived bigtime if they don't make
    the Final Four ...

    So what?  Other than the fact that it gets on the nerves of lots of
    people and the fact that I personally prefer Bob Knight over Dean
    Smith, I really don't care if either the Hoosiers or Heels overachieve
    or underachieve by either making or not making the Final Four.  I'll
    admit to having participated in the discussions in the past and present
    but it's not an issue that greatly excites me.
    
    The only college basketball team I care about is at my alma mater and I
    don't expect us to ever make the Final Four in my lifetime.  I enjoy
    seeing how well we can do.  Win the Atlantic-10 and make the NCAAs? 
    Great!  Win a game or two in the NCAAs?  Wonderful!  Make the Final
    Four of the NIT like we did last year?  Tremendous then, not tremendous
    now.  It's not realistic to expect us to win a National Title in either
    basketball, baseball or football.  I enjoy going to games and following
    the teams for the sake of going 'cause I still have a lot of friends
    who travel with the teams and follow the teams who I can visit with,
    and I've learned not to get too wrapped up in the wins and losses - in
    other words, I try not to let the records detract from my enjoyment of
    the games I go to.  (The Patriots are a different matter but that's
    because I work for them).
    
    John

 Even if IU doesn't make the final four Bobby's greatness is secure. He's
 won 3 titles, with 3 different lineups, with three different styles and
 without the benefit of 3 to 4 to 5 NBA players on his bench. Can Smitty
 boast the same? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Simply stated Booby's greatness is the real thing, Smitty's the overblown
 imagination of a few misguided zealots and the backhanded compliments of
 the NBA personal who use Smitty as a farming system.....

 They know his game coaching is putrid but they talk him up cause he teaches
 the basics so it saves them time when they draft a player...

 mike 

    >Indiana ranked #2?  Can we assume if FatBob doesn't git these 
    >fellas into the Final Two he underachieved?
    
    No, you cain't:
    
    1) They're massively overranked right now (no center, no shooting
       guard).
    
    2) This overranking has everything to do with the rightful recognition
       that Bob is the best coach there is and nothing to do with his
       talented but flawed lineup (poor recruiting of big men, as usual, 
       refer to Eric Montross; high integrity as usual, refer to Lawrence
       Funderburke).
    
    3) Underachieved in *this* season or his *career*?  Career-wise Bob has
       answered all questions, with 3-for-20/10-for-20.  I'll conceded that
       it is theoretically possible that he could underachieve in a single
       season (he's human, after all), but after his '89 Big10 Title with
       a 6-2 WMD-afflicted-ex-backup-guard-at-SF I as a_alumnus aim hoping
       he cain take maybe his worst player ever, ex-backup-forward-at-C
       Matt Nover and fashion a couple more Titles!
    
    Slasher, you've mastered the requisite fatalistic negativity for your
    new role as a Hairy Smithna very nicely...
    
    Big10 MrT

    
    Before you guys get too all-fired up with MrT's talent assessments,
    just remember that this is the same Objective_Analyst who has 
    repeatedly referred to IU gridder Trent Green as "the worst quarterback
    in Division 1-A" when in fack he's in the top 10th-20th percentile.
    Now I personally don't follow all a this hoops recruiting b.s. with
    some of the fervor that you folks do, but this was the tip-off to
    MrT's little games for me...
    
    glenn
    

    Intellectual Dishonesty at its most egregious, Waugamain.  Yes, I made
    that statement about Trent Green, and yes, I recanted as he emerged
    during this his senior season as the consensus most improved player in
    the Big10.  
    
    Trent's a gamer, always was.  He also has the ability to throw eight
    straight passes five feet above the outstretched hands of wide open
    receivers, as was seen in the Notre Dame game.  Or, as in the Michigan
    game, he cain during a end-a-game two minute drill throw the ball into
    the dirt at the feet a open receivers three straight times.  Or, as in
    the Iowa game, open the game with three straight intereceptions before
    he even managed an incompletion.
    
    Green's got a great arm that has been half-tamed in his last year. 
    He's inaccurate and mistake prone, but cain put together some drives 
    against good teams (Michigan, Notre Dame, Iowa, Ohio State) and put up
    some great dastisticks (tm) against mediocre ones (Kaintuck, Missouri,
    etc.).
    
    As you sleazily failed to mention, I recanted and admitted that I was
    wrong about Trent being the worst Div. IA QB some time ago.  On the
    other hand, if he's top 10-20th percentile MrT is driving to Bloomington 
    to attempt walking on Bob's squad and replacing that bricklayer Damon!
    
    Poor MrT

                         
>    Intellectual Dishonesty at its most egregious, Waugamain.  Yes, I made
>    that statement about Trent Green, and yes, I recanted as he emerged
>    during this his senior season as the consensus most improved player in
>    the Big10.  
     
    Lest I be misinterpreted or my point wasn't clear: there is plenty
    of time left in the season for MrT to similarly "recant" his 
    ridiculous exaggerations on the hardcourt as with the gridiron.
                                                                   
    glenn
    

    So sorry, Waugamain, but this tacky tack just won't work when
    it comes to poor MrT.  Why?  Simple:  In each and every case of
    my so-called "pre-season sandbagging" events have indeed borne out
    MrT's analyses as having in fact been completely accurate.
    
    Also, lest anybody's perceptions of where I stand be twisted by your
    perverted and unsolicited repackaging of my fine high-browed and 
    ultimately proven-as-accurate statements:
    
    1) Hoosiers were preseason overrated.  "Look, Spot!, see Hoosiers get
       blown out by UCLA and tumble in polls, see Matt Nover stumble as MrT's 
       unflinching analysis is once again substantiated in physical reality!"
    
    2) Hoosiers have no center.  Matt Nover 6-8 stiff brought on squad with
       eye toward teaching him game and using him as non-complainer backup
       foward.  Matt Nover starting center for allegedly top4 squad.  Matt
       Nover doesn't score, block shots, dribble, complete passes, rebound, 
       or play successful D, all a which has been borne out in team statistics
       since his emergence as putative top big main in the nation.
    
    3) Hoosiers' great guards have no shooter.  Refer to team statistics and
       face Reality.
    
    4) Hoosiers will sink, then rise.  Have shot at Big10 Title, but Michigan
       or Iowa have better balanced rosters and should send them down to 3rd.
    
    5) Don't cry.  Hoosiers coach got proven ability to yield "meaningless
       end-a-season peaks," three time in de form a something called National
       Championships," which consitently excellent programs spurn but which
       makes MrT hard, vewy vewy hard.
    
    6) Poor MrT already said Hoosiers most talented since ten years. Ain't 
       saying much, true, but remember two National Championships and many
       Big10 Titles in that span.
    
    7) Also remember that both '81 and '87 Title squads barely made tourney,
       and '81 squad has most regular season losses a any Titleist.  '81
       squad also posted widest average winning margin a any Champ squad.
       That's one helluva meaningless end-a-season peak, no?
    
    8) Overrated-but-potential Hoosiers must follow this path.  Lindemann 
       must learn center or Bob must scrap Nover (as he did in tourney) and
       go with 3-guard lineup.
    
    9) If go with 3-guard lineup then perimeter shooting must come on big-time
       or Hoosiers going nowhere. 
    
    Big10 Tom

    Yo!  MrT.  Teams *CAN* win with an underacheiving center if they have a
    coach who is wiling to adapt his game plan!
    
    Point in fact, the last two seasons UK played with a 6-7 center by the
    name of Reggie Hanson.  6-7 center in division one basketball?  Yep,
    and they went 36-20 during those two years winning the SEC last year. 
    BTW, who'd a thought that during those two years, UK would be LSU and
    the 7-1 Man-Child twice whilst playing a *6-7* center!
    
    Perhaps Bob is getting a bit senile just as his idol Woody Hayes did
    many moons before.  Give Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino, and Denny
    Crum the talent IU has had the last two seasons, and guess what?  They
    would take that team to the final four.  Game over.
    
    Hasta la Vista Baby!
    
    WILDCAT

    Wake on up and smell the poses, Mildcat:
    
    Bob won the last two years too, in fack beating both Pitino and 
    Crum whom you extoll so.  Moreover, if Hanson were in Bloomington
    he'd be starting in the middle (he may be small, but he cain play).
    
    Beyond that, Roy Williams had a kid in the middle who ate IU alive
    and went on to become a first round draft choice.  
    
    Oh, and CoachK not only was taught how to coach the game by Bob but
    also how to play it.
    
    No, all obfuscation aside (and, it isn't really), what we were talking
    about before all the Waugamain/ACCrook/Mildcat/Slasher mass confusion
    set in was whether centerless/perimeterless IU was among the two best
    squads in the country, and, as Friday night proved, they certainly
    aren't.
    
    Nice try, though.
    
    Big10 MrT

    	Yikes MorT, last time I saw that much waffling (other than at
    IHOP) was watching Bush during the last election.
    
    				/Don

>    set in was whether centerless/perimeterless IU was among the two best
>    squads in the country, and, as Friday night proved, they certainly
>    aren't.
    
    The only thing that was proven Friday night is that Bob is a stubborn
    egomaniac who chose to let an All-American sit on the bench for almost
    the entire 2nd half.  Exactly what "lesson" Calbert supposedly learned
    by this exercise is open to question.  My guess is he learned what a
    slew of Bob transfers have learned.  Namely that on a whim Fight (tm)
    can humiliate the heck outa you and there's not a whole lot that you
    can do about it.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Since when is letting the players who play best play "humiliation?"
    
    Watch closely, ACCrisp, and learn.  Next time out Calbert will be
    a new main, filling the lanes, throwing his lithe body into the 
    rebounding zones, and inching up on D.  He also needs to learn that 
    if he doesn't have his shot going it's time to pass the pill on to
    someone who does.  Anderson and Henderson obviously did, but couldn't
    start lighting it up 'til ball-hog Calbert was set down to learn one
    very valuable lesson.
    
    Typical sensationalism: All coaches yell, with Bob it's a crime.  All
    coaches sit players, with Bob it's egomania.  All coaches complain to
    refs, with Bob it's an "explosion."
    
    On that last point, at least Bob doesn't wheedle constantly like a 
    certain ex-chain smoker down on Tobacco Road whom I won't mention.
    
    Big10 MrT

    I'd like to see Calbert's statistics for Friday night.  The player you
    describe as a "ball-hog" appeared to me to be shut down to the point 
    where he was rarely even touching the ball.  I didn't see him playing that
    poorly, but the greater point is that the ONLY chance Indiana had to
    win the game was if Cheaney started stroking them.  Apparently your
    defense of this is that it will cause Calbert to play better next time.  
    I would contend that these lessons should be learned in practice and
    once the game starts you let your best players play the game.  
    
    BTW, Dean sticking with Fox despite his horrid shooting was a
    no-brainer.  The kid made a career of shooting poorly for most of the
    game and heating it up at crunch time.  There was absolutely NO ONE on
    our bench who was gonna replace Fox and pull out a 'W' over Kansas.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Off the top of my head Cheaney had 8 points on less than ten shots.
    
    Jimbo

    re ACCrook's sad-sack .507
    
    It's already been said (by me, Vitale, et al) that Calbert took the
    pine cuz he wasn't playing D or rebounding or making the passes against
    UCLA's superquick defense.  Not cuz he was wasn't hitting.  Calbert has
    stayed in games since the beginning of his career when he wasn't
    hitting, although his shoooting frquency would drop accordingly (except
    for wide open Js and drives).
    
    Criticize Bob all you want.  Compare him to Snuffer all you want. 
    There is a diff between the two: One is doing what it takes to fashion
    this squad into position for a meaningless end-of-seasak; the other
    other into whatever it is that gets you 1-for-30 with busloads of tip-
    top blue chipper H.S. AA talnent (which Calbert wasn't, btw).
    
    If you're not pleased with Bob's coaching performance Friday night I
    cain only take comfort.
    
    Big10 MrT 

    <Insert Heavy Sarcasm>
    
    UNBELIEVABLE, I'M SHOCKED....
    
    Bob Knight actually sat a player who was not playing up to his
    potential nor was he playing well on both sides of the ball.  Knight
    has just gone too far this time, what a terrible human being he is...
    Imagine doing that to a 21 year man, how will Calbert ever survive?
    
    <Sarcasm off>
    
    It's amazing how one person can be so hypocritical.  On one hand he is
    all over Bob Knight for benching a player who was not playing well(it
    will most likely make him a better player) but he completely ignores
    the lack of honor and discipline on a team with his favorite coach(A
    man who does not punish players who break the law, choke and beat-up
    women, abuse alcohol, fight with cops, etc). 
    
    A hint on who this person is:  He is so insecure with his own opinion
    that he has to use the phrases "Well, Dean and I think... or Dean
    and I agree that..., etc"  Pretty weak when you can't offer an opinion
    that even slightly differs from your idol or you can't even slightly 
    criticize the man.                           
    
    Cap

    Funny how Cap and MorT (and all the weasels, really) are so defensive. 
    I've never ONCE brought Dean Smith into this discussion, yet they see
    the need on virtually every note.
    
    All I'm after is an objective discussion of Bob's coaching on Friday
    night.  IMO he did his team a disservice to bench Cheaney.  IMO he
    removed any possibility for his team to win the game when he did this. 
    IMO Calbert will not be helped by this.  IMO Calbert wasn't even
    playing that poorly in the first place.  (And even if he was there were
    still 15 minutes left to redeem himself.  I also never once heard
    Vitale say that Cheaney was playing poor 'D', not rebounding, not
    playing a good floor game, etc, etc.)  IMO Knight lets his ego get in
    the way at times and apparently feels the need to overshadow his
    players.  
    
    None of this has a thing to do with Dean Smith, although I'll grant you
    on almost every count it runs contrary to Smith's coaching philosophy.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

    >IMO Calbert will not be helped bythis.
    
    IMNSHO, then, you're incapable of why Bob has attained so many 
    meaningless end-of-season peaks.  Calbert will certainly be helped
    by his benching.  The shaky part of his game has always been 'bounding
    and D, and I don't know what game *you* were watching but repeatedly on
    the replays Nover (who cain't play a lick) and Cheaney were standing
    there watching as Madkins, even slow - footed McClean - were pitcuted
    splitting the middle (usually from a pass of the weak side) and going
    down the middle for an unconstested hoop (unless Anderson got over to
    pick up a foul).
    
    Bob's not the only coach to've benched a poor-playing star.  I've seen
    it done by hundreds of coaches thousands of times.  The way Calbert was
    playing their chance of overcoming a huge deficit was enhanced with
    somebody else in there.
    
    Unless you're saying that you know more about the game than a 3-for-20/
    10-for-20 guy.
    
    No, that's not it.  What you're saying is that you cain't understand 
    how a coach cain possibly exercise his prerogative to bench a poor
    performer for better play later in the season. 
    
    That you cain't understand how a main would sacrifice his precious
    overall winning percentage looking toward end-of-season meaninglessness. 
    
    Call me a_existentialist, by I say your complaints are much ado about 
    nothing.
    
    MrT

>    Bob's not the only coach to've benched a poor-playing star.  I've seen
>    it done by hundreds of coaches thousands of times.  
    
    Name a single coach in Division 1A basketball today who would throw in
    the towel and bench their All American for almost the entire 2nd half,
    thereby penalyzing not just the individual but whole team cause it
    removed any chance of achieving a_'W'.
    
    Just one.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    

    
    ACChris,
    
    Work on your reading comprehension skills, there in need of
    upgrading...:-)
    
    I did not offer up any criticisms about Dean Smith, I criticised your
    hypocritical views(when you constantly call them objective, they are
    far from it...).  I simply pointed out where obvious hypocracy existed.
    
    I have criticized Knight for his transgressions in the past, it's well
    documented.  However it really shows the deepness of your scorn for
    Knight when you criticize and attack a man for benching a player when you 
    know absolutely nothing about the circumstances surrounding the
    benching.  Do you attack people in real life without knowing the
    circumstances or understanding the situation?  If you do than you're
    probably a very lonely person.   
    
    You also attacked Knight for criticism of officials, although as
    objective as you think you are, you fail to criticize Dean Smith for
    his obvious bench antics which over the last 3 years are worse than
    Knight's(Dean is considered 'King of the Whiners' among refs and
    sportswriters).  You will never be thought of as objective until you are
    BIG enough and secure enough to offer public criticisms of Dean Smith.
    
    I criticize Dean Smith for his obvious ineptitude on the basketball
    court.  The only personal issue I have ever criticized Smith on is his 
    failure to publicly punish King Rice for an obvious and serious
    infraction.
    
    Get a grip Chris, this is real life, not some fantasy world where you
    and Dean are one in spirit and being. :-)
    
    Cap
    

> Name a single coach in Division 1A basketball today with 3 NCAA titles.
    
    As I've stated, Bob gets and receives much praise for this.  Three (3)
    Titles in Twenty (20) years is an outstanding accomplishment in todays
    era of parity.  His Gold Medal in '84 ain't chopped liver, either.
    
    But the man doesn't walk on water.  He makes mistakes.  He's fallen
    flat on his face come tourney time, ... alot.  Benching your star
    player for almost an entire half and thereby removing any possibility of
    achieving a 'W' REQUIRES (IMO) some sort of justification.  The Cheaney
    that I saw Friday night wasn't playing particularly great, but he
    wasn't stinking_it_up_awful either.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Moderators, please add keywords to 9.516.  They should be:

    	SPINCONTROL
    	HYPOCRISY

    Seldom do we see such terrific examples contained within one note.

    	--dan'l

    Cheaney was stinking up the joint standing there like a spectator
    on D and when shots were up.  He also wasn't moving without the ball
    on offense.  Maybe he was tired, injured, dazed by UCLA's onslaught,
    had a horrible series of practices... who knows.  His benching was a
    good thing and despite what you say proves no mental illness (egomania)
    or abusive behavior.  Calbert seemed to understand his benching, and
    didn't seem to have a problem with it at all.
    
    Benched stars?  Hmmm.  Randy Breuer of Minnesota.  Hmmm.  Trent Tucker
    of the same team after... ball hogging while spectating the floor game.
    Hmmm.  Willie Sims of Wisconsin.  Didn't Dr. Malpractice of Iowa bench
    both his center and his guard (his two best players)?  Hmmm.  Seem to
    remember Gene Keady inviting his best players to rest it from
    time-to-time.
    
    Lookit, ACCrock, some coaches recruit by guaranteeing PT and starting
    slots.  Others, like Bob, will play whoever has proved himself deserving
    that particular week.  And you make it sound like this is the first
    time Calbert has sat.  Little do you know what you're talking about...
    
    Big10 MrT
    

    >But the man doesn't walk on water.  He makes mistakes.  He's fallen
    >flat on his face come tourney time, ... alot.  Benching your star
    >player for almost an entire half and thereby removing any possibility of
    >achieving a 'W' REQUIRES (IMO) some sort of justification.  The Cheaney
    >that I saw Friday night wasn't playing particularly great, but he
    >wasn't stinking_it_up_awful either.  
    
    I have criticized Knight umpteen times, not only on his coaching but
    also on his personality and stubborness.  However the point you fail
    to see is that Knight obviously had a reason for benching Cheaney and
    since you don't know why this was done.  Knowing Cheaney's work ethic,
    I know that this will make Calbert a better player because he will now
    work on the weak points in his game.  Now if Dean Smith had done this
    with a lazy JR Reid than maybe Reid would have lived up to his
    reputation as the best prospect in the country and NC would have won
    a title during his time.
    
    Also UCLA went on it's tremendous run and opened up a huge lead with
    Cheaney in the game, so there is absolutely no way you can say that 
    the win was impossible with Cheaney on the bench.  Knight is trying to
    fashion a basketball team that plays as a team.  If one person in his
    defensive or offensive system is not handling their responsibilities
    than the entire system is destroyed and teams go on runs like UCLA did.
    I amazed that you don't understand this concept.
    
    Cap
    

    Don't get carried away with the Bob criticism thing, Cap.
    
    For I have PROVED that his only truly reprehensible act, allegedly
    pulling his team against the Commies, in fact never happened.
    
    As for pulling Cheaney, Bob had no choice.  The most fundamental
    concept to his coaching is that you must play the total team game
    at maximum effort.  To leave in a player who wasn't putting it out
    would create a fissure in the committment to total team effort among
    the other players, and rightfully so.  
    
    Bob has no star system.  Beneath a certain baseline you sit, and that's
    all any player cain axe a a coach.
    
    It's worked wonderfully for 20 years, even if it has exacted a certain
    maginal cost in overall winning percentage, but net net the investment
    is the best possible.
                         
    Big10 Tom

> I did not offer up any criticisms about Dean Smith, I criticised your
> hypocritical views(when you constantly call them objective, they are
> far from it...).  I simply pointed out where obvious hypocracy existed.

If it's hypocritical for someone to point out sin when in fact he's not
sinless, then I'm guilty.  Otherwise there's absolutely no hypocrisy
involved in my thorougly Objective Analysis of Knight's performance on
Friday night.  (Which is the ONLY issue at hand, as far as I'm concerned.)

    
> I have criticized Knight for his transgressions in the past, it's well
> documented.  

Big_a you, but when confronted with some of his past problems was there
really a choice?  What I wanna know was whether or not you were in front
of your TV Friday screaming for Bob to put Cheaney back in the game so
you could go on and have a chance to win the game.  


> However it really shows the deepness of your scorn for Knight when you 
> criticize and attack a man for benching a player when you 
> know absolutely nothing about the circumstances surrounding the
> benching.  

First, I have no scorn for Fight (tm), er, Knight.  My feelings toward
him are clear cut, which is symptomatic of the man himself.  He knows
and understands the game of basketball as well as anyone who ever walked the 
planet. Of this I have no doubt.  But there's another side to him - a much 
darker side.  It causes him to say dumb things, punch cops, throw chairs, 
punch fans, humiliate players, etc, etc.  Sometimes, IMO, this 'dark side'
gets in the way of his coaching genius.  I've offered a_hypothesis that
this happened Friday night, but rather than talk specifics you and MorT
choose the low ground and continually try and drag me into a Dean vs.
Bob debate.  For shame!


> Do you attack people in real life without knowing the
> circumstances or understanding the situation?  If you do than you're
> probably a very lonely person.   

Get real Cap.  The circumstances are as obvious as the nose on yer face.
Even MorT acknowledges this.  Gotta admit though I aim lonely.  [sniff,
sniff]  No friends to talk to.  [sniff, sniff]  Nobody to share the
intimate details of my solitary existence.  [booooooooooo, sniff, sniff,
sniff]  Just me and my remote control.  Fortunately though this does allow
me plenty of time to watch loads of college hoops!  

    
> You also attacked Knight for criticism of officials, although as
> objective as you think you are, you fail to criticize Dean Smith for
> his obvious bench antics which over the last 3 years are worse than
> Knight's(Dean is considered 'King of the Whiners' among refs and
> sportswriters).  

Show me one time when I've criticized Knight for criticizing officials.
You cain't, cause I haven't.  As to Dean and his "whining", we can all
thank the idiot John Feinstein (a Duke nerd) for this stupid assertion.
(BTW, Feinstein's latest journalistic masterpiece is about tennis, and
it's drawing scorn from just about everybody as being inaccurate in
zillions of different areas.  As far as I'm concerned Feinstein is the
true junk journalist of sports.  Kinda writes the equivalent of The
National Inquirer for sports.)


> You will never be thought of as objective until you are
> BIG enough and secure enough to offer public criticisms of Dean Smith.

I've publicly criticized Dean numerous times.  He shoulda called a TO
against Georgia Tech.  His nose is too big.  I don't approve of his
Unitarian religious philosophy.  Whadya want, blood?

    
> I criticize Dean Smith for his obvious ineptitude on the basketball
> court.  

Yup.  Obvious.  Dean Smith is obviously an inept coach.  I'd like to here
you take that message and deliver it to ANYBODY who's in the basketball
business.  I'd also like to see your face as they give you a condescending
look that screams of the fact that you don't know a danged thing about
basketball.  Haw!!


> The only personal issue I have ever criticized Smith on is his 
> failure to publicly punish King Rice for an obvious and serious
> infraction.

There's a reason Dean doesn't get criticized very often on personal issues,
while Knight does.  A very, very good reason.  (Hint: It  highlights one
of the main reasons Dean > Bob.)

    
- ACC Chris
    

Your claim is that benching Cheaney against UCLA is part of Knight's "dark 
side" because it humiliated him and cost the team the game in order to 
soothe Knight's dark egomania.   

The Knight supporters saw it as both an in-transit tactical move and a 
long-term strategic one as well.    Cheaney wasn't helping the team on 
defense and on the boards so he might as well sit ... with his 
lofty pre-season press clippings right next to him.   No one plays for 
Knight unless he plays both ends of the floor and is involved in all 
aspects of the game.

Strategically, it sets up Cheaney for even better play down the road.   If 
he didn't know it before (and how could he not???), he now knows he's not 
sacrosanct and that he's part of the team.   

Knight is coaching him to either play better or sit.   Guaranteed that, 
barring injury, Calbert Cheaney will be a much improved player at the end 
of the year.   If he isn't, he'll ride pine all winter long or he'll 
transfer to a program where the coach will just let him slide by on talent 
alone.

No reason to bring the Snuffer into this but the comparisons are obvious.  
And, actually, Snuffy is closer to Knight than you think in this regard.   
He's benched guys before for not playing well.   Hell, sometimes he benches 
the entire starting unit and puts the Blue Team in just to stir things up 
and to hammer the point home to the front five.

But you're open to attack when you knock Knight for benching Cheaney 
because the most glaring recent example of a college basketball player 
desperately needing some pine time is Rick Fox lasted spring in Indy.   And 
Snuffy didn't do it and the results are delicious history.

I think it's pretty clear that Knight didn't care squat about the UCLA loss 
if he felt sure his players could and will learn a humbling lesson from 
it.  Given Knight's record for messy end-of-season peakage, I suspect we'll 
see such a lesson applied come March.

Bob Hunt   

    Well, since you brought up Dean ...
    
    I'll guarantee you that he and Knight are 100% identical in one
    respect: you will not play if you don't play both ends of the floor. 
    In fact, they both stress defense first and foremost.  (See Clifford
    Rozier for more info about a kid with offensive talent who saw mega
    pine_time.)
    
    The difference is in HOW they handle this.  Dean will NEVER humiliate a
    player as Knight did Friday night.  It just doesn't happen.  Bob
    mentions that Dean will pull the entire unit and replace them with the
    Blue Team.  This is true, but when it happens, it happens as a group. 
    An individual just doesn't inexplicably sit down for an extended period
    of time, because Dean won't embarass him like that.
    
    What most definitely WILL happen is that the player will hear about in
    practice, while watching films, etc., and if the trend continues he'll
    see his PT drop.  If I were Calbert Cheaney (or his parents watching on
    television) I would've far preferred this method, especially in light
    of the fact that he didn't seem to be playing that poorly in the first
    place.  (Vitale was openly questioning why Calbert wasn't back in the
    game before finally shutting up when he realized Knight was doing what
    only he does - embarass the heck outof a kid ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Actually Chris, in today's game of inflated player's egos, the typical
    reaction to a coach's criticism (JR for example) would be "yeah, yeah,
    yeah, you'll never bench me".  IMHO, it might take several games to
    most of the season for a player to get the message with Dean's method.  
    
    On the other hand, there are few stronger incentives than
    embarrassment.  Besides, if a player really is loaffing in a game, how
    much is the scoring potential offset by the defensive libility?  And
    you really think Bob *hasn't* been riding Chaney for a while in
    practive already?
    
    I'll bet Chaney doesn't stay benched long.  Probubly about the same
    amount minute as a coach using some other reward system.
    
    Scott
    
    (This is too hard to resist) So we have Dean lossing because he
    refuses to bench a play not playing up to his ability.  And we have
    Knight lossing because he benches a play who isn't playing well.  Which
    loss hurts more?

    >finally shutting up when he realized Knight was doing what only he
    >does, humiliating a kid...
    
    Benching a player is not humiliating him.  Players routinely get 
    benched.  Calbert's benching has taking place tens of thousands of
    times in the annals of college hoops.  In-game benchings.  No gradual
    phase-outs of the type you extoll SNuffer for.  
    
    You're making this bullcrap up as you go along, aren't ya 'Crokmeister?
    
    MrT

    I realize full-well I'll never get an objective answer here, but I'll
    axe anyway.  
    
    MorT, when you were staring into the abyss Friday night, watching your
    beloved Hucksters get blown out by a team ranked far lower than your
    own while your best player was watching from the bench and Dickie Vitale 
    saying that unless he got back in there the game was in the books, ......
    
    weren't you just a tad upset at Bob's egomania?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    And *I* realize full-well [sic] that *I'll* never get a objective 
    QUESTION here, but I'll answer anyway.
    
    >watching... your beloved Hucksters get blown out by a team ranked far
    >lower than your own...
    
    Ranked far lower than the overrated Hoosiers, but as any objective eyes
    could see chock-full of widebodies and with a great little point guard
    to pull all that talent togeth...
    
    >weren't you just a tad upset (witCheaney on the bench)?
    
    Naw, I was happy, for two reasons:
    
    1) The Hoiers saw how mediocre they could be by opening the ason
       against perhaps the most physically talented sqad in the land.
    
    2) Cheaney's play was disgusting.  His benching affirmed to me that it
       would improve a whole lot and soon.  IU fans cherish watching total
       play from its players, don't give a rat's ass about overall winning
       percentages, and lust only for Titles of the conference and National
       kind.
    
    MrT

    re .520
    
    Cap and MrT at odds !
    
    Is Cap The Martin Luther of the Bob Fight Jihad ?
    
    Will MrT be the Pat Buchanan of the IU-BobFIght right wing ?
    
    Stay tuned !
    
    DrM

    re .522
    
    Darth Knight ?
    
    I'm roolin' Bob, in fact, you just came up with a new one for the guy.

    
    ACChris,
    
    Since you like to paint Knight as this terrible human being and don't
    give him any credit for improving both his on-court and off-court
    behavior, I challenge you to create a list of transgressions that
    Knight has committed over the LAST 3 SEASONS.  Be careful because I 
    know the dates of the most obvious things that you are going to list.
    
    When you are finished, I'll do the same for Dean Smith and we'll
    compare.
    
    Cap
    
    P.S.  Would you like to take a guess on who has more technical fouls
    	  called on them during the NCAA Tournament(Smith or Knight)?
    	  I'll give you the answer if you would like to know....

    Wildcat,
    
    I moved this over hear since it's not about the ACC.
    
    There is not one logical thing about your argument, except a blatent
    attack.  No one knows the circumstances behind Cheaney's benching nor
    what happened previously that lead up to the benching.  If Rick Pitino
    had done it, we wouldn't hear a peep out of you.
    
    And I would be willing to bet  that Pitino has sat players for not
    running his system.  Personally I do not find this embarrassing.  It
    happens all the time in Sports.  A loss in November won't mean
    jacksheet if Cheaney and the club learn the mistakes they were making
    and win the Big10 and the NCAA's.
    
    And Cheaney will not transfer because of this, as Knight is one
    of the most respected and loved coaches by his players(even the
    transfers who rarely say anything bad about Knight(Calloway,
    Funderburke, Delray Brooks have all spoken highly of Knight after 
    leaving).
    
    So tell me that you know and understand all of the circumstances behind
    what directly or indirectly led to Cheaney's benching.  Personally
    based on Knight's positive behavioral changes over the last 4 years, I'm 
    willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.  Why aren't 
    you?
                                            
    I do understand that you probably have a problem with anyone who coaches 
    the game without having to slip someone a few thousand dollars for 
    incentive. :-)
    
    Anyway I believe your jealousy stems from the fact that IU ran a clean
    program since Knight has arrived, won 3 titles and doesn't have to 
    change transcripts, pay players, illegally recruit, etc to win.  Sure
    Knetucky won some games in the series but how many star players would
    have come to Kentucky without these extra incentives. :-)
    
    Cap
    
    
    

    dis is gonna be good!

    CAP -
    
    I'll answer the lasted 3 season things for ACC CHris:
    
    1)  Bob Knight has caused the Big East to fall right off the map of
    college hoops.  The only recruits they get is by hanging around bus
    stations.   It is a league about to fold any second now.
    
    2)  He yelled - yes *YELLED* at his players on the sidelines!!  These
    are poor kids - and he yells at 'em!
    
    3)  Failed to mold his kids into NBA stars.  Instead he only turned
    them into better human beings with futures away from baketball!  What
    an idiot!
    
    4)  He Benched!! Calbert Cheaney on national TV!
    
    That, Cap should do it.   No worse man in college sports.
    
    John Thompson must have the most t-fols.  
    
    JD

    For those of you around the country who want to watch the new "Beast of
    the East" (Beast of New England?  Beast of Massachusetts?  Beast of
    Hampshire County?) in action, the University of Massachusetts will be
    on National TV tonight.  In a Midnight Madness game, Siena visits the
    hallowed halls of Curry Hicks Cage this evening (well, tomorrow morning
    for the anal-retentive among you) to challenge the Minutemen on ESPN.
    
    This will be the first of two appearances nationwide for my alma mater,
    the other being on Saturday night, January 4 from the Springfield Civic
    Center vs Oklahoma.
    
    John

    Cap, did you axe why Mildcat cain't bring himself to give credit where
    credit is due (i.e., to Bob)?  
    
    E-Z: He's ashamed that he's associated with a scumbag program that
    managed to embarrass even the extremely crooked SEC and hasn't been to
    the Big Show and won since, what, '78?
    
    He also knows that Pitino will be around for only another year or two
    and that U. Kaintuck's once great hoops program will fall back into
    that Sysiphian pattern of perpetual rebuilding.  
    
    Have a lotta talent though.  Cain't wait til the next time they get 
    busted for payola.  Wonder what the average wage on the Kaintuck team
    is, about $75,000 per year (i.e., about $75,000 per year higher than
    Indiana's)?
    
    Big10 Tom

    'T, your *INANE* comments deserve no mention.  BTW, get the facts
    straight.  It's 80,0000/year not 75,000.
    
    If you're naive enough to believe that a program can control a boosters
    activity, then we have no basis for discussion.  A school can only do
    so much and teach their kids what's right and wrong.  They *cannot*
    control the boosters of a program. 
    
    BTW, Pitino stated in a public news conference last week that he will
    honor the seven year contract.
    
    >> ... the extremely crooked SEC.
    
    Get a life.  I've heard more *SUBJECTIVE* noting from you then anyone
    in this conference. :-)
    
    HTH's
    
    WILDCAT

    re .535
    anal-retentive ?
    
    Woo... Hendry, talk about a pre-emptive strike ! :-)
    
    Seriously, is tip off actually at midnight local time, or is Siena on
    the west coast ?  I honestly don't know ...

    Siena is outside of Albany, NY.  It will be midnight Eastern Time.
    
    John

    
>    Have a lotta talent though.  Cain't wait til the next time they get 
>    busted for payola.  Wonder what the average wage on the Kaintuck team
>    is, about $75,000 per year (i.e., about $75,000 per year higher than
>    Indiana's)?
     
    Sounds a little high by major college (or even SEC) sleazoid
    standards, MrT.  I'm using a "How To" book by Pat Dye as a reference.
    As the AD currently presiding over criminal programs in football,
    basketball, and *tennis*, Mr. Pat "Fry" Dye oughta know!
    
    glenn
    

    >you're naive enough to believe that a program can control a boosters
    >activity, then we have no basis for discussion.  A school can only
    >blah blah blaaaah !!
    
    Not necessarily.  Not if you're OBJECTIVE enough to concede that asst.
    coach Casey was a employee following direct orders from Haid Coach
    and not a "booster."  I think we have a basis for discussion here,
    'cept you're too chicken to follow through with it.
    
    Face it: Cheating pays, just look at Switzer or Larry Brown.  This is
    why Bob don't have SIX Titles instead a merely THREE.
    
    MrT
    

    MrT.  I am objective enough to discuss this with you.  Casey was an
    employee of the University of Kentucky.  I will not however concede
    that he followed direct orders from the coach because I don't know. 
    Neither do you.  It's been hinted that a booster may have done it also. 
    I don't know.
    
    BTW, during this whole rotten mess, Eddie Sutton was struggling with
    alcoholism.  He admitted as such a little over a year ago.  He says he
    is now dealing with the problem and now has it under control.  Eddie
    could'nt have had proper control over the program while dealing with a
    personal problem such as this.  I have to wonder how different things
    may have been if he had been sober while at UK.
    
    WILDCAT

                             
    You Kaintuck boys are missing the point.  This aspect of Kentucky
    basketball goes way back to the Adolph Rupp days.  Like with Oklahoma 
    football (and I'm an Oklahoma football fan but objective enough to 
    acknowledge what went on), the cheating that occurred is now infamous.  
    While maybe no one can produce irrefutable evidence of direct payoffs 
    from the coaching staff in the form of tapes or letters (like they 
    apparently got on Dye at Auburn), with the wealth of past testimony 
    it's naive to believe that the coaches weren't turning their backs 
    and letting it go on with the full knowledge that selected boosters 
    were giving the kids the proverbial Golden Handshake on behalf of the
    university's program.  
    
    With that knowledge in hand, it *is* the university's responsibility 
    to do something about it.  In the Oklahoma analogy, I for one believe 
    that Bud Wilkinson was in every other way a respectable gentleman 
    (much more so than Rupp), but I can't deny the fact that the program 
    was once corrupt to the core, as was Kentucky's basketball program.
    To do so would be to deny the obvious...
    
    As for the future and MrT's "predictions" on the current mode
    of operation, that's another matter entirely...
    
    glenn
     

    Ho ho ho, Rope, gotta love the maudlin approach you now stoop to.
    
    Don't throw your back out, Mildcat, but (sniff) poor Eddie was 
    struggling with a "problem," a... "mistake" (yeah, *right*, like
    the "mistake" Dave Stewart made drilling the TV as if he hadn't
    done it 10,000 times before, ergo, this sniffly mistake is having
    gotten CAUGHT, cold-busted!!)...
    
    OOooOOooooOOOh Mildcat, I'm choking up here, almost to a Dean-like
    astringency level: Poor Kaintuck was victimized by a "diseased" coach
    struggling to right a "mistake" and poor bag-main Casey was in turn
    victimized by a rich but overzealous booster.
    
    My ass.
    
    MrT(all and proud with his multiple Titled squeaky-clean IU hoops
        program !!)

    RE .543
    
    Glenn, I readily admit that UK has had problems in the past.  What gets
    me is how MrT and others can make INANE comments such as "UK was only
    good in the past because they cheated, etc.".  Thats Bull!  It's hard
    for me to conduct an *intelligent* conversation when rationalizations
    such as these are used.
    
    UK has had problems in the past.  I accept that, and hope that they
    never happen again.  I am open minded enough to realize that the very
    same things (with boosters) could be happening all over the country. 
    There is very little a coaching staff/athletic department can do about
    it.  I'm not naive enough to think that it could never happen at the
    most *SACRED* of all institutions, Indiana University under the
    tutelage of Bob Knight.  For all we know someone greased the palm of
    Alan Henderson without Knight or any University official knowing about
    it.
    
    HTH's
    
    WILDAT

    RE .544
    
    I struggle to even reply to such non-sense, but I succomb.
    
    'T, I never once stated that UK was victimized by a "diseased" coach. 
    I stated that during the period of trouble, Eddie had a problem which
    greatly exaggerated the lack of insitutional control.
    
    WILDCAT

 Well number 8 in the Big east makes Dicky V. look good by stomp the
 Cats...85-67...they drilled on the baseline where the cats were
 suspect.

 Mildcat how come Phelphrey was riding Pine in the second half? Travis
 Ford better slow down or he'll be out of every game with 5.

 Mash is a bigtime player though....

 and the best news of the night Pitt extended Evans contract....
 yahoo...more mediocre..

 if UK didn't cheat then how in the heil did Joe B' Hall win a NC???

 mike

    UK was manhandled last night, and it wasn't pretty.  Congratulations to
    Pitt, and its fans.  They really played a very smart basketball game. 
    UK hasn't suffered as decisive defeat at home since January 18, 1987
    when LSU handed the 'Cats their worst loss ever at home 76-41.
    
    Coach Evans had an excellent game plan.  Pitt pounded the ball inside
    at every opportunity, and really took very few outside shots.  Don't
    guess you have to when you can score at will inside.  The biggest
    problem for UK last night was the outside shooting.  UK shot only 27.3%
    from the field compared to 51.7 for Pitt.  I can't recall in recent
    memory seeing them shoot that poorly for an entire game.  I vividly
    recall them shooting that poorly for one half.  1984 Final Four vs.
    Georgetown.  Still have nightmares over that one.  Pelphrey had more
    time on the pine last night than any of the other starters.  Let's not
    however compare John Pelphrey to Calbert Cheney.  Cheney has more
    athleticism in his big toe than Pelphrey has in his entire body! 
    Pitino was really shuffling the lineup trying to find any combination
    that could hit the broad side of a barn last night.  Unfortunately most
    of Uk's players are of the same talent level other than Mashburn. 
    Mashburn is a legitimate big-time player.
    
    Mike, assuming that's an honest question concerning the 1978 title and
    not just another jab, I'll answer it.  The 'Cats won the title that
    year with a truly great team.  It was a senior laden team.  The four
    who led the 'Cats that year were Rick Robey (6-10), Mike Phillips
    (6-10), Jack Givens (6-4), and James Lee (6-6).  This class did more
    than in four seasons than any class in the last 20 years.  Their
    freshman year they played in the NCAA final against UCLA.  The 'Cats
    other major cog that year was a guy by the name of Kyle Macy.  Macy was
    a sophomore in 1978 having set the previous year out after transferring
    from Purdue.  Givens was All-American in 1976, 1977 and 1978.  Robey
    was All-American in 1977 and 1978.  Macy was All-American in 1979 and
    1980 his last two seasons at UK.  UK was the consensus number one pick
    during the pre-season and went 30-2 enroute to their fifth title.
    
    That wraps up this weeks history lesson.  Stay tuned next week when we
    look at the Fabulous Five, the only team in NCAA history to win an NCAA
    title then represent the United States as a Unit and when the Olympics
    the same year. :-)
    
    HTH's
    
    WILDCAT

    re .547
    
    You make progress, Mildcat.  At the outset you were false-claiming
    that it was a booster.  Now at least you concede to the reality that
    it was asst. coach Casey, he of the unparalleled recruiting prowess.
    Whither that prowess?  From the brown bag, we now know for a fact.
    
    Nixon pleaded broken institutional control and almost got away with
    it until the tapes were unearthed.  Reagan did the same, and thanks 
    to Casey's death (the crooked DCI, not the crooked Kaintuck asst.
    coach) and 600 lbs of key documents shredded by Ollie and his buck
    toothed secretary, his cockamamie story has held up... in the PR sense
    at least.
    
    So, now you have a cold-busted program and a house-of-cards theory
    about how poor drunken Eddie-the-unwitting-beneficiary was victimized
    by a_asst. coach gone bad and a runaway booster... even though the
    asst. coach was under the direct supervisory control of the haid coach.
    
    We've seen the procession the past 20 years in our courts and our 
    legislatures and now our Athletic Depts.: Git cold-busted and then get
    the religion and declare yourself a bored-again Christian or a victim
    of the demon booze or maybe come outta the closet and reveal how your
    were battered by your dad years ago or maybe your wife only last week.
    
    Eddie's sudden alcoholism has cover story written all over it.  The
    kind of story that plays best below the Mason-Dixon line.  Poor Eddie.
    Poor drunken mixed-up victimized Eddie.  He was so deep into the bottle
    that somehow an asst. coach was able to go behind his back and pass the
    cash and deliver unto him blue chip after blue chip.
    
    Unbelievable.  But you're gettting closer.  Remember, Rope, the first
    step in coming to grips with a (Reality) problem is admitting that you
    indeed have a problem...
    
    Big10 Tom

    What?  No scathing pop psychology criticism of how longtime starter
    and contributor Pelphrey was given all the pine time?  And don't give
    me that "but he's only a white person" jive-bull either, Mildcat, for
    this Pelphrey kid has a fine floor game, he proved that time and again
    against some tough comp last year.
    
    Where's the differentiation between *this* starter being benched and
    IU's?  Has Pitino gone insane?  Is he a megalomaiac?  Is he "abusing"
    and "humiliating" his starters in some tawdry psychosexual drama? 
    Should U. Kaintuck's A.D. intercede and stop the mistreatment of fine
    young men by a coach who has apparently lost his ability to lead?
    
    Was this a plot hatched by a runaway booster?
    
    Big10 Tom

    Q:  Your recruiting efforts have been criticized by members of the
    media and the so-called recruiting "gurus".  How do you respond to
    those criticisms?
    
    A:  I'm interested in having College All-Americans, not high school
    All-Americans.....the name of the game is having college All-Americans
    and winning ball games, not having high school All-Americans come into
    your program and then not pan out.
    
    

>    Where's the differentiation between *this* starter being benched and
>    IU's?  Has Pitino gone insane?  Is he a megalomaiac?  Is he "abusing"
>    and "humiliating" his starters in some tawdry psychosexual drama? 

     Obviously, T, the answers are just as you are implying:
     (1) There is none; (2) Yes; (3) Yes; (4) Yes.  Just as with BK.

        
    Yeah, I think ACCrook and Ropes have got to come out of that Pitt
    debacle just a little bit red-faced.  How is Pelphrey's talent 
    versus Cheaney's relevant to the argument?  After all, we were 
    talking emotional scarring and such nonsense, weren't we?  Because 
    Pitino didn't teach his little lesson and *immediately* reinforce
    it by getting Pelphrey back into the game, can we expect to see
    Pelphrey committed to a mental institution this week?  Or are
    untalented kids immune to such abject humiliation?
    
    With any luck, we'll have all the key principals of college hoops
    in here poormouthing their teams by January.  Is there a top 20 team 
    anywhere in the land, or is Iona or somebody gonna walk off with
    all the hardware?
    
    glenn
    
    

    re .554:
    
    > With any luck, we'll have all the key principals of college hoops
    > in here poormouthing their teams by January.  Is there a top 20 team 
    > anywhere in the land
    
    See note 77.  :-)
    
    
    py

    >How is Pelphrey's talent versus Cheaney's relevant to the argument?
    
    Could wail be that young Pelphrey is, according to the recruting
    gurus, ostensibly more talented than Calbert.
    
    This is cuz Calbert is , without going back to the records but safely
    recalling, only the 5th or 6th highest ranked recruit on the squad
    (behind, in rough order: Bailey, Henderson, GGraham, PGraham, Chris
    Reynolds, and maybe Anderson).
    
    Calbert is more "talented" than Matt Nover, who barely succeeded in
    H.S., and the awful Todd Leary, who like Matt has no busines at all
    on a Big10 squad, but at least he ain't starting.  Oh, and Jamaal
    Meeks too, albeit Jamaal was recruited by Minnesota, which is more than
    cain be said for the awful Matt and Todd (Leary not Lindemann)...
    
    re .553
    
    Some help *you* are.
    
    Big10 Tom 

    
    From last night's sports reports- 
    
    Tarkanian's at it again. At least one station showed footage taken from
    an AC duct of platers and coaches practicing a week before they were
    allowed to. Even if he is retiring at the end of this season they ought
    to give UNLV the death penalty.
    

    They won't get the death penalty cuz Tark's taking the "Eddie Sutton"
    defense by saying it was a out a control asst. coach "who has some
    questions to answer."
    
    MrT

    The University of Massachusetts, 74-65 winners over Oregon State will
    play New Orleans in the final of the Great Alaska Shootout tomorrow
    morning.  Tipoff is slightly after midnight.  Televised nationally on
    ESPN.
    
    John

    re -1 
    
    John how did UMASS make out in the finals vs N.O. in the Shootout?
    I haven't heard or seen a score.Thanks in advance.
    
    Tom

    UMass beat New Orleans 68-56 in the Shootout and lost to Kentucky last
    night 90-69.
    
    John

    Anybody get a look at the FAB-5 out of that land of maize n blue.  A
    guess a good early test will be 12/14 against Duke.  I think that's
    going to be a nationally televised game.  From what I here Frieders
    going to have to lay down some serious discipline.  Somewhere between
    30-40 turnovers against Detroit.  Bill where's the control????
    
    Roy L.
    

    Sorry I lost control, I figured on Frieders team could be coached  well
    enough to make that many turnovers.  His name must've been retained as
    I read info about the PAC ten!
    
    

    
    I'm chris ... UCLA '82 alumni
    
    BEFORE the season started with the pounding of the Big-Eleven school
    Indiana, UCLA was the pre-season #5 team in Smith/Street's
    
    Don MacLean, will be a first round NBA pick
    Tracy Murray, Ed O'bannon and Darrick Martin SHOULD give
    coach Jim Harrick te PAC-10 title and a long awaited visit
    to the "FINAL FOUR"
    
    One school that looks REAL GOOD is the Univ of Michigan
    Chris Webber, Jalen Rose, Juwan Howard and Jimmy King
    were among the country's best in High School and now 
    together on the same college team...WOW
    I don't think that Fischer guy should be a coach, but he 
    has struck SOLID GOLD in recruiting
    
    SO WHO WILL BE THIS YEARS NCAA CHAMPION??? Duke, LSU, UCLA, Michigan
    ????? Its going to be a great year for the NCAA!
    
    chris
    

    I'm still a UCLA alumni and the Bruins will make some serious
    overtures in the NCAA this year
    
    Regarding the Univ of Michigan, they will be fine as the season
    progresses ... they also have a tough schedule
    The one thing that IS IN favor of those 5 outstanding young men
    settling down is that Fischer brought the Detroit Southwestern
    High School coach (perry Watson ??) in as an Assistant
    U-M will get to the Final Four before those guys graduate
    or opt for the NBA lottery...WHEN is the question not IF
    
    But enough of the Big-11, GO PAC-10 and GO UCLA
    

    "coach" Bill Fritter's working his magic in The Valley A The Sun and
    good riddance.  As for the FabFive, they're shaping up as a monster
    rebounding squad, something that'll keep them in a lotta games against
    more experienced competition.  They'll lose to Duke, but the question
    is by how much.  Fisher's much like Fritter in that he just lets 'em
    run.  He does, however, seem to have some input on shot selection and
    will actually bench a flick, something Fritter seldom did given that
    he was basically just a spectator with a bench seat and that towel 
    flung over his shoulder to prove what a gym rat he was even though he
    had all the tactical and strategic skeel a Saddam.
    
    Big10 Tom

    Great Diet Pepsi Tournament of Champions in Charlotte this year with
    two nationally ranked teams falling.  This is the fourth time in as
    many years that a nationally ranked team has been beaten in this
    tournament.

    Friday night, Alabama beat NC State and UNC-Charlotte beat DePaul.

    Saturday night, NC State beat DePaul in the consolation game.  Then
    came the upset of the weekend (IMHO) when UNCC, without star forward
    Jarvis Lange (broken wrist), beat Bama.  Henry Williams and a
    well-coached supporting cast were tough down the stretch...especially
    against some poor officiating.

    Sad thing is, neither NCSU or UNCC will be invited back to this
    tournament.  NCSU was considered the host team.  They have been
    alternating with the Tarheels.  UNCC has been lobbying to get into this
    tournament since it was begun four years ago.  They won it in their one
    and only shot.

    But now the Tournament of Champions will alternate between UNC and the
    University of South Carolina as home teams.  NCSU won't be invited back
    because they don't draw well (only 12,000 this weekend).  UNCC won't be
    invited back because Dean Smith refuses to play any instate school
    other than ACC teams.

    	--dan'l

    re: .-1
    
    > UNCC won't be invited back because Dean Smith won't schedule an
    > in-state non-ACC school
    
    Given that you just got thru telling us that UNC will be *alternating*
    with South Carolina as host for the event, this statement is obviously
    false.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Nope, it's true.  Read it in the paper yesterday.  Smith won't play an
    instate school.  Don't know what the reason is for not including UNCC
    when the Cocks are host team.  Might have something to do with UNCC and
    USC being too close (within an hour of each other) and the organizers
    wanting more nationwide diversity.
    
    	--dan'l

    That is really sad and pathetic....
    
    Dean Smith probably won't schedule in-state non-ACC teams because
    he fears that losing to one of these schools would damage his in-state
    recruiting.
    
    Of course he would also have to take Townson St, the Citidal or Cornell
    off his schedule and that would hurt his precious winning percentage.
    
    

    re: .-1
    
    Number one, I seriously doubt Dean stays up nights fearing losing to an
    in-state non-ACC squad.  UNCC on a typical year would probably lose by
    +20 at least.  +30 more realistically.  This year the 49ers vs. UNC
    would've been a death match though, given the fact that they beat an
    always_tough 'Bama.  (I'm suitably impressed!  The Tide is always
    *scary* on 'D'.)
    
    Number two, don't include Towson State on your list of cupcakes.  They
    made the NCAA's last year and took Carolina to the wire this year in
    Chapel Hill despite not even having their best scorer playing.  (He
    broke his elbow in a very close loss to Colorado in Colorado.)
    
    
    re: dan'l
    
    You make my point.  It's not Dean's fault that UNCC can't play in the
    tournament, since they clearly could play in years that USC was the
    host.
    
    I'm not aware of why Dean won't schedule an in-state school, but my
    guess is it revolves around recruiting.  In-state recruits are always
    the top priority for a state school like UNC, although with academics 
    being what they are in North Carolina (i.e. sub-par) it's often the case 
    that they don't measure up academically.  Chuck Kornegay is the most 
    recent example of this.  He's a widebody stud to be sure, but both UNC 
    and Duke backed off him and said unless he waited until Spring to sign 
    (i.e. after he passed his SAT's) they weren't interested.  State signed 
    him, although he still hasn't reached 700.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    One other comment on Towson State...before assigning them their usual
    #15 or 16 seeding in this year's NCAAs, I hope the selection committee
    takes note of the fact that they schedule schools like UNC.
    
    
    py

>In-state recruits are always
>    the top priority for a state school like UNC, 
    
    Last time I checked, UNCC was a state school too.  At least that's
    where my paychecks come from.
    
    If Dean is so great and these young men are foaming at the mouth to
    play for him, why would he be afraid to play in-state schools and fear
    losing recruits?  They'd still want to play for the man who serves as a
    springboard to the NBA, no?
    
    	--dan'l

    I've no idea, dan'l.  Did the paper have any reason for Dean's policy?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I'll reread the article tonight, Chris, and if there's anything telling
    in it other than what I've already written, I'll enter it.  Or if I'm
    wrong, I'll do my best T spin control and worm my way around it.  ;-}
    
    	--dan'l

    I was wrong about the alternating host teams, but right about Dean. 
    UNC and USC will co-host the Diet Pepsi Tournament of Champions for the
    next five years.  Dean refuses to play in-state schools not in the ACC.
    
    From Saturday's Charlotte Observer:
    
    UNCC, N.C. State to Return? Not Likely
    ======================================
    
    One -- NC State -- is the Diet Pepsi Tournament of Champions host team. 
    The other  -- UNCC -- could rightly becalled the home team.
    
    And yet, this weekend's tournament at the Charlotte Colliseum was
    somewaht frustrating for both.  Primarlily because neither school can
    expect to be invited back again in the near future.
    
    The Wolfpack spent the tournament's first four years alternating as
    co-hosts with the Tar Heels.  UNCC spent the tournament's first three
    seasons just trying to wangle an invitation to the four-team event.
    
    Finally, the 49ers got in.  But this may be their only visit.
    
    The tournament has signed a five-year pact with North Carolina and
    South Carolina to co-host the event, beginning next year.  Since North
    Carolina coach Dean Smith will not play any in-state schools that don't
    belong to the ACC, that means the 49ers won't be back.
    
    And since the tournament tries to get a national flaver, don't expect
    the Wolfpack to be invited back, either.
    
    

    Thanks dan'l.  The article still leaves unanswered two (2) questions:
    
    1. Why can't UNCC participate during the years that UNC is NOT the
       host team?  The article sez that Dean won't play non-ACC in-state
       schools and therefore UNCC won't be back, but Dean/UNC only host
       the event every *other* year.  
    
    2. What's Dean's reasoning for not playing in-state ACC schools?  I
       could come up with a guess (revolves strictly around recruiting)
       but a good journalist wouldn't have left this question hanging.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 
    
      
>    1. Why can't UNCC participate during the years that UNC is NOT the
>       host team?  The article sez that Dean won't play non-ACC in-state
>       schools and therefore UNCC won't be back, but Dean/UNC only host
>       the event every *other* year. 

	Obviously because before Dean put his team's name on the dotted 
        line he made this bogus rule. Stating if they didn't do it his
	way then UNC was out...
 
    
>    2. What's Dean's reasoning for not playing in-state ACC schools?  I
>       could come up with a guess (revolves strictly around recruiting)
>       but a good journalist wouldn't have left this question hanging.
 
	Scared with a yellow stripe down his back almost as big as Thompson's.
        Afraid to loose his sainthood in Carolina and afraid they'd wake up
        and change the name of the dome.....   
   
    
    
      
  
    
    

    Read the article again, Chris.  USC and UNC are co-hosting.  That means
    they'll both be in it every year for the next five years.  Since there
    would be a chance of UNCC advancing to a championship game against UNC,
    UNCC cannot be invited because of Dean.
    
    I think he's more of a scum than ever now...but this is strictly
    because of my personal allegiance to UNCC.  Glad the 49ers took the
    whole show this past weekend...their only chance...THANKS TO DEAN!!!
    
    	--dan'l

    
    UCLA  98   Pepperdine  58
    
    Herrick and the Bruins are now 3-0 on the year
    
    chris UCLA '82

    Gotcha, dan'l.  Didn't pick up on the co-hosting thingee.  Still wish
    they would've elaborated on why Dean doesn't play a non-ACC in-state
    school.  I'd guess he figures they play enough in-state schools during
    the ACC season and because of our nationwide recruiting focus wants to
    play teams from outside the local geography.
    
    Couple of interesting things about UNCC.  For one, they probably
    should've beaten Marquette in the 1977 Final 4, which would've made for
    a very interesting UNCC vs. UNC finals!  What are the odds on something
    like this happen?  Another thing is the "Maxwell Rule" that Dean
    implemented after Cedric, an in-state kid, went on to superstardom at
    UNC-Charlotte despite going virtually unrecruited by the ACC powers
    (including Dean & UNC).  The "Maxwell Rule" sez that recruiting efforts
    in-state MUST be given first priority.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Chris, it's common for a powerful school to not play other local
    schools.  Basically, if a team dominates a particular area, it has
    everything to lose and nothing to gain by playing that school.  I
    believe this is what Dean is doing with UNCC - why should UNC-CH help
    them out?  UNCC would get the lion's share of the publicity for doing
    so, if the Heels win it's a so what and if UNCC wins, the benefits are
    tremendous to UNCC.  It's a no win situation for Carolina because they
    look bad by not playing UNCC and they potentially risk a lot by playing
    them.  This is not meant to bash Dean, it makes sense because I'd do
    the same thing.
    
    Georgetown, by refusing to play good local teams such as George
    Washington, the University of Maryland (which is in a DC suburb) and
    George Mason (Fairfax, Va, another DC suburb) is a leading proponent of
    this.
    
    The University of Connecticut is doing this to the University of
    Massachusetts.  It's a long-time traditional rivalry that's ended. 
    UConn was perfectly happy to play us when we were lousy.  Now that
    we're on the way up, they won't.  If there is one team I'd like to see
    on the the UMass schedule for an annual war, it's UConn.
    
    John

    U of Mich traditionally plays all of the State schools it can get its
    hands on.  Kind of true for MSU as well.  Granted most of the teams
    turn out to be patsies but occasionally Easterm or Western Mich. and
    possibly Detriot will on UM down year or thier up year.  UM doesn't
    have the kind of tradition in BB that UNC does though.  However, just a
    many Championships(in the last 30 years).
    
    Roy L.

    Chris -
    
    John Hendry makes a good point.  BC used to play Northeastern every
    year - and always beat them.  Suddenly, NU got Reggie Lewis - and took
    BC down to the wire a couple of years (when Reg was FROSH and SOPH). 
    BC backed out of playing NU until Reggie - afraid they'd lose to a
    smaller (athletically, not student-wise) cross-town school.   
    
    JD

    
    Why is it that college basketball teams have that chiken%^&^ mentality
    but college football teams (especially in the ACC) tend to hang onto 
    those local and regional rivalries long after they've ceased to be 
    interesting?
    
    Let me answer my own question: for the exact same reason.  The football
    rivalries aren't competitive or threatening so they continue, the 
    basketball ones could be so they don't.  Pretty lame...
    
    glenn
     
    

    One interesting case of in-state football rivalries is with East
    Carolina.  NC State dropped them like a_hot potatoe, and for good
    reason.  The Pirates are *tough* - practically unbeatable at home.
    Matter of fact, they have a difficult time getting a game up with
    ANYBODY.  Lots of schools will play them on their home turf, but when
    it comes to a home-and-home, forget it.  Playing in E Carolina is no
    picnic for any team in America on a typical year.  On *this* particular
    year I think they could beat anybody.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    WELL!!!  I for one am glad that LOUIEEE and the boys aren't like
    (ahem) certain other schools who won't play locals.  Brooklyn College,
    Fordham, Wagner, Manhattan to name a few are those we've played in 
    the lasst(ed) 2 years.
    
    Of course this will lead to the "playing pansies" rathole to attain an
    inflated win-loss national ranking arguement so I guess there's just
    no pleasing people........
    
    ?what to do?
    Kev
    

    Good point Kev.  If Dean scheduled UNCC every year I'm sure there'd be
    those complaining about his soft schedule.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Duke plays instate schools.  Duke plays anybody.  Kzxyzxyzxyzxy(tm)
    believes that you learn your lessons early in the season, that carries
    you through the conference play, helps you in the NCAA tournament.  I'd
    say Dean Smith, John Thompson, et. al. could learn something here.
    
    	--dan'l