Conference 7.286::sports_91

    ASU opens up league play tonight against UCLA.  Should be a good test
    to see how the Devils stack up against the PAC-10.
    
    They're not quite ready to make the big jump yet though after Kentucky
    beat them by 25.
    
    Mike

>Betcha the admissions folks at Cal-Berkeley would be mega-rollward at a 
>would-be frosh candidate with these numbers.
>
>Cal-Berkeley is one helluva tough school.

    Bob, true but they are the exception.  I'd like to see how some of T's
    Big10 schools stack up, but you know he'll pull numbers out of his head
    instead of using documentation.
    
    The rest of the PAC-10 can't be much different.
    
    Mike

    Mike -
    
    Those numbers aren't too awesome.  What's the grad rate for athletes?
    
    Don't think its too tough to get into the Washington schools, or the
    Oregon schools.  Do know that UW has the lowest grad rate for football
    players in the Pac10.
    
    Big10 has some fine schools.  As does the Pac10.   
    
    Other than a chance to argue with MrT again, what's your point?
    
    JD

But, Mike, that's T's point.   

The admissions standards at Cal-Berkeley (and at Stanford) are so much 
higher than the other eight Pac-10 schools that you almost have to question 
Snyder's non-financial motives in making the switch from Cal to Arizona 
State.

He will have *much* better success attracting studly football types to 
Tempe than he had at Berkeley.

There is nothing at all wrong about Snyder's ambitions.  If he has his eye 
set on even bigger plums (NFL?) than the Sun Devils, then he has to make 
this move.   The only shame is the usual complaint about "student-athlete" 
and the oxymoronic giggles the term provokes but that ain't his fault.

Bob Hunt

    ...but he also unjustifiably called ASU a party school.  That's my main
    beef.  It's no more of a party school than Indiana or Michigan (and I
    know because I have Michigan alums in my family).

Arizona also has state of the art facilities (I think Cal just upgraded theirs
after years of having substandard ones), 'zona also has a bigger football 
following than Cal (more alums willing to spend big bucks on the program)....

No doubt he'll be able to recruit easier in Arizona than Cal based on facilities
and admission standards....

I'd like to see Cal continue with their winning ways however...I like seeing a
school with high academic standards doing well in sports....


Metz

>No doubt he'll be able to recruit easier in Arizona than Cal based on facilities
>and admission standards....
    
    Metz brings out a vital point here too.  Snyder is already well known in
    California's fertile high school hunting grounds.  He gives ASU a
    stronghold there, as well as preventing Arizona's blue chippers from
    exiting to southern California.  This is in addition to the 14 of 22 
    returning starters.
    
    BTW - His debut in Tempe this season is against the Huskies.
    
    Mike

    It has been requested several times to keep the religion and (most of)
    the politics out of the conference.  Please don't try to get it going
    again, T.

     T,  Looks like the facist moderator got to you note, buddy !
    censorship lives !!
    
    ;^)  Just kidding Mac
    
    BG

    Naw, Mac's not being a fascist.  Heiser, after weeks of begging me to
    get back into our particular religious debate (the scope and complexity
    of which he can't grasp) with these "you don't use sources" taunts,
    which were a way of thumbing his nose at my cooperation of Mac's request
    that the subject be dropped.  In other words, Heiser was claiming victory
    in a debate that he insisted be censored, and was taunting me to come
    out for more censorship.  I took the bait, came out, wrote totally 
    inoffensive material (as Mac agrees), and then the Moderators received
    a quick mail from Heiser insisting that it be deleted because he finds
    it offensive.  Mac didn't want to delete it cuz it isn't offensive in
    any way, but apparently some other Mod decided to delete it.
    
    Fine by me.  This little exercise initiated and run by Heiser only 
    proves how PC and censorious to right wing crowd actually is.   It goes
    without saying that religiosos love censorship and secretly hate the
    First Amendment (sports-relevance notwithstanding).
    
    MrT

    Anyone have the UCLA score from last night ??
    
    Thanks
    chris UCLA '82

    Ahhhh  I see MrT.  Well, I'm sure Mike will pay for that kind
    of behaviour when the time comes...  You know the old saying,
    Do On To Others...   ;^)
    
    BG

    ...before they do on to you!
                                          Denny

Article: 4320
From: kevin@daffy.ee.lbl.gov (Kevin Gong)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Cal notes 1/8/92
Date: 8 Jan 92 04:20:00 GMT
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley
 
 
Just some notes before Cal starts its Pac-10 season at Oregon on the
9th.
    Cal goes into the Pac-10 season with a 6-4 win, with wins over SJSU,
Manhattan, and Columbia.  Nothing really extraordinary about the games
themselves, but some notes:
    Freshman forward Alfred Grigsby sat out all 3 games, nursing a groin
injury.  Lou wanted to make sure he's ready to go on Thursday.  Hope so.
Lamond Murray and KJ Roberts were disciplined for being late or missing a
team meeting -- they didn't start the Manhattan game and only played about
a half each, I believe.
    Lamond Murray looks like he can slam from anywhere on the court.  He
had several in the game against Columbia, including a couple alley-oops.
It got to the point where he was standing just outside the 3-point line,
and one of the fans yelled, "Hey Murray, slam it from there."  At which
point Murray drove all the way to the hoop and layed it up.  No slam, but
watching him, you tend to believe he could take off from beyond the free-
throw line and slam.  He's no Tracy (his cousin).  Meaning he isn't content
to sit around and shoot from the outside.  He also shoots the 3,
but we really don't need him for that.  Elleby has been amazing from that
distance this year, shooting about 65 percent from the 3-point line.  Dreher
seems to be getting his shot back after an early slump and battle against
the flu.  Hendrick is definitely back to his old self -- both in FG and FT
shooting.  He's scored 20-30 points in each of the past 3 games.
    Still more questions than answers as to how the team will perform, but
this team will be fun to watch!
 
  - kevin

Article: 4166
From: rpandey@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Rajeev Pandey)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Oregon State News
Date: 31 Dec 91 09:14:05 GMT
Sender: usenet@CS.ORST.EDU
Organization: Computer Science Department, Oregon State Univ.
 
 
 The big news for Oregon State is that Earnest Killum has been cleared to play!
Killum has been suffering from the same blood clotting problems that hampered
the late great Hank Gathers. Apparently, medication has paved the way for him
to take to the court, and he did so looking very good. This will be a _big_
break for the Beavers down the stretch--trust me.
 
[ Killum was the California 5-A player of the year in 1990, named the San
Gabriel Conference MVP both as a junior and as a senior. Averaged 30.4 ppg as
a junior, 29.7 ppg, 9 rebounds/game and 5 assists/game as a senior. ]
 
 Oregon State won the Far West Classic Tournament (Dec. 27-29) held in
Portland. A brief run-down of the games:
 
 
 Oregon vs. Minnesota: 
 
   The Ducks lost by 25 points. Enough said.
 
 Oregon State vs. LaSalle:
 
   In the 1st half, it looked like the treys that Hurd and Woods were bombing
   in would bury OSU. Luckily, in the second half, OSU found its pressure man
   defense, and shut down the outside shot.
 
      Oregon State 92    LaSalle 80
 
 
 Oregon vs. LaSalle:
 
   The Ducks lost by 30 points (105-75). Enough said.
 
 Oregon State vs. Minnesota:
 
   OSU was ahead from the get-go, but had to survive some Minnesota elbows
   in the second half. Within 48 seconds of each other, Scott Haskins was 
   on the bench looking somewhat like Isiah Thomas (sorry for the pro 
   mention :-) after Mailman's elbow, followed quickly by Mario Jackson with
   a elbow to the nose. Do the Gophers play basketball? They certainly seem 
   adept at plays suited for football.
 
     Oregon State 92   Minnesota 80
 
 
 All Tourney team:
 
    Charles McKinney  OSU  (MVP)
    Chad Scott        OSU
    Randy Woods       LaSalle
    Jack Hurd         LaSalle
    Randy Carter      Minnesota
 
 Next Year:  Oregon, Oregon State, BYU and Ohio State
 
 Oregon State is now 7-4  (5-0 at home, 2-4 (ouch!) on the road):
 
  date     opponent               score         result         notes
 ------    --------               -----         ------         -----
 11/26     New Orleans            79-58          win
 11/29     Alaska-Anchorage       80-66          win          Great AK Shootout
 11/30     Massachusetts          65-74          loss         Great AK Shootout
 
 12/01     Eastern Michigan       87-72          win          Great AK Shootout
 12/05     Western Michigan       76-87          loss
 12/07     Ohio State		  56-84		 loss
 12/14     SW Missouri St.	  72-63		 win
 12/18     Oral Roberts		 117-82 	 win
 12/21     Fresno State		  72-83 	 loss
 12/27     LaSalle		  92-80 	 win	      Far West Classic
 12/28     Minnesota		  92-80		 win          Far West Classic
 
 01/02     Sacramento St.
 01/03     James Madison
 01/09     Stanford
 01/11     California
 
 
-- 
Department of Computer Science    | Rajeev Pandey 
Dearborn Hall 303                 |    Internet: rpandey@cs.orst.edu 
Oregon State University           |    UUCP: hp-pcd!orstcs!rpandey
Corvallis, OR  97331-3202  U.S.A. |    Phone:(503) 737-3273 Fax: (503) 737-3014

Article: 4224
From: crs@milton.u.washington.edu (Cliff Slaughterbeck)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Washington loses to UTEP
Date: 4 Jan 92 16:28:53 GMT
Organization: University of Washington, Seattle
 
The University of Washington lost to the UTEP Miners last night in a hard 
fought defensive battle 55-50.  The Dawgs were up 24-21 at the half thanks to
some absolutely horrid first half shooting by UTEP.  The Miners could only hit
25% of their shots in the first half, even though a number of them were from 
fairly close range, and somewhat uncontested.  They were able to stay in the
game by pounding the offensive glass.  Van Dyke had 8 points to lead UTEP
in the first half.  The Huskies were led by Jr. center Rich Manning who had 13 
points to lead the team. He also had a passle of boards.  Washington's match
up zone was riddled inside in the first half by some good penetration from
guards Prince Stewart and Eddie Rivera, who would penetrate and dump the ball 
off when help came for a good shot, but the shots were just not going in the
bucket for the Miners.  Husky coach Lynn Nance tightend the zone up for the
second half, but then the Miner guards started to drain three's.  They opened
up the second half 5-6 from treyland to take a 41-30 lead before the Huskies
made another run.  The second half run was started defensively when Nance
decided to use a 3/4 court trapping press against UTEP's smallish (both under
6 feet) guards.  The trap was effective and caused enough turnovers to allow
the Huskies to claw back to 51-49 with about 2 minutes to go.  Rivera hit
a running jumper and 2 free throws in the final 1:20 as Washington missed
its shots at the end to end up at 55-50.
 
Some thoughts on the Husky players:
 
C Rich Manning.  Another quality game.  His favorite shot is the right handed
jump hook, and if that is taken away, he can be neutralized (ie, force him to
go left).  Too many turnovers.
 
F Doug Meekins.  Good game off the bench.  Look for him to reclaim the starting
small forward spot against WSU.
 
F Mark Pope.  Prone to foul trouble when matched up against bigger power
forwards, but can out quick them with a very good up and under move.  Still
inconsistent jump shot and prone to hot and cold streaks, but he is a frosh.
 
F/G Quentin Youngblood.  Scrappy hard working player.  He twisted an ankle,
so we will see if is OK for WSU.  Needs to look harder for his shot.
 
G Bryant Boston.  Good defense, and supposedly a great scorer, but didn't show
much offense last night.  Also a frosh, he needs to look more for his shot.
 
G Andy Woods.  At 6'5", he should look for more of an inside game, especially 
against small guards playing man defense.
 
Coach Lynn Nance.  Needs to try and focus the team on rebounds and not turning
the ball over.  The defense looked OK in the second half, but the turnovers
(especially the unforced ones) hurt a lot.  Also needs to emphasize board work
while playing zone D.  Pretty good transition game both ways, and offense is
starting to shape up, although if teams double team Manning, someone is going
to have to step up and drain threes.  Biggest need is a point guard who can
penetrate without turning the ball over.
 
Next up: WSU.
 
****************************************************************************
Cliff Slaughterbeck           *    Tel.  (206) 543-5729
Dept. of Physics, FM-15       *    FAX   (206) 685-0635
University of Washington      *    Internet:  crs@phast.phys.washington.edu
Seattle, WA 98195             *    Bitnet:    crs@uwaphast
****************************************************************************

Article: 4247
From: matthew@pram.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: UCLA Injury Report (and O'Bannon du Jour)
Date: 6 Jan 92 18:00:53 GMT
Sender: usenet@cs.ucla.edu (Mr. Usenet)
Organization: UCLA, Computer Science Department
 
According to yesterday's (1/5/92) LA Times:
 
Gerald Madkins will make the trip to Arizona, although he is unlikely 
to play.  His wrist is in a soft cast.  However, Freshman Tyus Edney has
picked up the slack at guard - a nice surprise.
 
Freshman *sensation* Ed O'Bannon participated in before-game warmups for
the first time in his UCLA career, although he still hasn't returned to
regular practice.  No timetable on his "return".  The only real questions,
however are:
  
  1. When will O'Bannon return?
 
  2. How long will it take for him to break into the starting lineup?
 
  3. Will he go pro after *this* year or *next* year?
 
  4. How long before he dethrones Michael?
 
Your on-the-spot O'Bannon reporter...
--
 
Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys

Article: 4222
From: gln@cs.arizona.edu (GaRY NEweLl)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: Arizona news
Date: 4 Jan 92 05:31:48 GMT
Organization: U of Arizona CS Dept, Tucson
 
 Arizona beat New Orleans by about 18 points last night and there were some
good and bad aspects of the game. On the good side:
 
Stokes played very well - 14 points and 11 rebounds. It was his best game
so far this season but one game does not a season make.
 
Rooks had 24 points and 10 rebounds, his first double double of the season.
 
 Earvin Johnson was held to 2 points and a handfull of rebounds.
 
 Stoudamire played well and hit some outside jumpers.
 
 Rooks hit 2 of 3 open jumpers from outside. I expect that he will take that 
open shot more often now and if he continues to hit it, it should
open up his game more (he appears to be a pretty good shot from about 12
feet).
 
 The cats showed an effective press for the first time this season.
 
 On the down side :
 
 wayne Womack got stuffed 3 times on the same move he has used all season - 
the turn towards the lane hook shot - I hope someone points out to him that
he needs to add a few more options to his offensive game if he is going
to be effective.
 
 The cats had a number of stupid turnovers.
 
 The cats shot a horrible 38% in the first half and were saved on the foul line.
 
 
Upcoming games - The cats play Santa Clara on Sunday and should blow them out
of the building. Then come the Pac-10 season. USC and UCLA open it up for
the cats at McKale.
 
 USC is capable of beating Arizona if Miner is on and it is possible that
the Cats will be looking ahead to the UCLA game. However, the streak should
be at 70 for this game and the Cats should be tough.
 
 I think an honest evaluation of the UCLA game is that it is the Bruins
game to win or lose. The fact is that the cats barely pulled out a win
last season against UCLA at McKale and the Bruins return the same lineup
more or less with a year's more experience and confidence. Unless there
is some last minute injury, I can't see the Bruins coming in anything less
than fired up. Arizona tends to play well against the Bruins but the
question is whether or not they can match UCLA's talent even with the
emotion going. 
 
 The only possible scenario I can see where Arizona wins is if the guards
play an outstanding game and force UCLA to try and handle Rooks and Stokes
inside more or less one on one. Even then, the assumption is that Rooks
and Stokes will do the job and that is unclear (especially for Stokes). 
 
 It is possible that Mills might play a good game for once against the Bruins
but he was not able to do so last season. This game will be a good test
for the Arizona backcourt. It is an opportunity for them to send a msg.
to the PAc-10 that this year's Cats depend as much on outside play as they
do inside... we'll see.
 
 
 
			gln

Article 4373 of rec.sport.basketball.college:
From: matthew@pram.cs.ucla.edu (Matthew Merzbacher)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.basketball.college
Subject: PAC-10 High Scorers
Date: 8 Jan 92 20:48:05 GMT

From Today's (1/8) Daily Bruin:

PAC-10 Men's Basketball Scoring Leaders

Player		School	G	Pts.	Avg.	Note
Harold Miner	U$C	9	240	26.7	(roughly 5th in nation)
Adam Keefe	Satan.	9	231	25.7	(roughly 7th in nation)
Tracy Murray	UCLA	8	187	23.4 	Leads nation in FT% (41-44)
Don MacLean	UCLA	7	137	19.6	Second in nation in FT% (40-44)
Neil Derrick	Wazzou	12	220	18.3
Chad Scott	OSU	13	231	17.8
Terrence Lewis	Wazzou	13	229	17.6
Sean Rooks	Arid.	10	176	17.6
Ant. Stoudamire	Oregon	4	70	17.5	transfer from G'Town
Rich Manning	Wash.	9	141	15.7

Also, MacLean is now the #3 all-time UCLA scorer with 2084 points.  He needs
12 points to pass Reggie Miller, and 242 to pass Lew Alcindor.

MacLean is #7 in the PAC-10 all-time scorers, and the top current player, with 
Sean Elliot topping this list at 2555.  If Mac averages 20 points a game, he'll
break Elliot's record.  

Turn on Current Edition of UCLA/Arizona Editorial Filter:
  It'd would be delightful to see MacLean come one point short of Elliot, if 
  you ask me.  MacLean just isn't nearly the player that Elliot, or any 
  Wildcat past or present ever was, is, or will be.

Not that it matters, since the Cal fans have assured me that Jason Kidd will 
break all of the records by his sophomore year anyhow.
--

Matthew Merzbacher	ARPA:	matthew@CS.UCLA.EDU
Moo - Moo Moo  		UUCP:	...!{uunet|rutgers|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!matthew
               		This time, *with* the oys

University: UCLA
Coach:      Jim Harrick (4th year)
1991 record: 23-9, 11-7, 2nd in PAC
Strengths: Few teams will be able to match this squad that returns all 5
starters, including one of the nation's best forward tandems in Don MacLean and
Tracy Murray, who combined for an average of 44.2 points and 14 rebounds last
season.
Weaknesses: The Bruins have a penchant for showing up at tournament time, only
to make a quick exit.  There also are questions at center, where 6'9" Rodney
Zimmerman is a sophmore.
Prediction: 1st

University: Arizona
Coach:      Lute Olson (9th year)
1991 record: 28-7, 14-4, 1st in PAC
Strengths: The Wildcats have won 4 straight PAC-10 titles and possess enough
talent to claim No. 5 if the Bruins fall apart.  Despite the loss of center
Brian Williams to the NBA, Ed Stokes and Sean Rooks provide plenty of toughness
in the paint.
Weaknesses: Depth in the backcourt.  Matt Muehlebach has graduated, and sophmore
Khalid Reeves needs to mature at off-guard.  Senior Matt Othick runs the show
but was prone to shooting slumps last year.
Prediction: 2nd

University: USC
Coach:      George Raveling (6th year)
1991 record: 19-10, 10-8, tied 3rd in PAC
Strengths: USC went to the "Big Dance" for the first time since 1985 and should
again behind the leadership of Harold "Baby Jordan" Miner, the PAC-10's leading
scorer the past 2 years.  Duane Cooper also dished out 133 assists as another
starter in the Trojan's 3 guard attack.
Weaknesses: The center position, where Ronnie Coleman was the school's all-time
leading scorer.
Prediction: 3rd

University: Stanford
Coach:      Mike Montgomery (6th year)
1991 record: 20-13, 8-10, tied 5th in PAC
Strengths: The heart and soul of this team is Adam Keefe, who decided becoming
another millionaire in the NBA could wait until after his senior season.  The
rugged redhead averaged 21.2 points and 9.5 rebounds last year but should get
help from incumbent point guard Marcus Lollie.
Weaknesses: The loss of 4 starters from last year's NIT championship squad.
Prediction: 4th

University: ASU
Coach:      Bill Frieder (3rd year)
1991 record: 20-10, 10-8, tied 3rd in PAC
Strengths: This team has weapons, including Jamal Faulkner, who broke freshman
scoring and rebounding records by averaging 15.4 points and 6.2 rebounds.
Dwayne Fontana might be the conference's best 6th man, while freshman (Super)
Mario Bennett already has rejected 25 shots.
Weaknesses: Plenty.  A lack of leadership, depth at guard and intensity on
defense.  Want more?  No player has more than 1 year of Division 1 experience.
Prediction: 5th

University: WSU
Coach:      Kelvin Sampson (5th year)
1991 record: 16-12, 8-10, tied 5th in PAC
Strengths: Get a load of this: The Cougars made 220 3-pointers last season and
return their 8 leading scorers.  Terrence Lewis, an All-PAC-10 candidate,
accounted for 63 of those treys and averaged a team-high 14.8 points.
Weaknesses: A lack of muscle on the front line.  The PAC-10 Coach of the Year
signed 3 transfers, including Pavel Petrov, a forward from the Soviet Institute
of Physical Culture, but their development could take time.
Prediction: 6th

University: California
Coach:      Lou Campanelli (7th year)
1991 record: 13-15, 8-10, tied 5th in PAC
Strengths: One of the league's most dominant players in Brian Hendrick (17.6
points, 9.0 rebounds) and an experienced backcourt in Billy Dreher (13.2 points)
and Bill Elleby (10.2).
Weaknesses: Plenty of youth and inexperience.  Cal also must improve on its
last-place finish in turnover margin and steals.
Prediction: 7th

University: OSU
Coach:      Jim Anderson (3rd year)
1991 record: 14-14, 8-10, tied 5th in PAC
Strengths: Chad Scott, a Prop 48 casualty 2 years ago, was among the PAC-10's
best performers after averaging 12.8 points and 8.3 rebounds.  Center Scott
Haskins also is ready to play after sitting out last season due to back surgery.
He averaged 8.2 points in 1990 and has a deft hook.
Weaknesses: The loss of all-conference forward Teo Alibegovic (18.1) and guard
Will Brantley (13.3) to graduation.
Prediction: 8th

University: Oregon
Coach:      Don Monson (9th year)
1991 record: 13-15, 8-10, tied 5th in PAC
Strengths: A couple of returning veterans in junior center Bob Fife (7.0 points
and 6.7 rebounds) and swingman Jordy Lyden (7.4, 3.8), a member of the league's
all-freshman team.  Lyden could miss 4-6 weeks because of sprained ligaments in
his right foot.  He was averaging 12.8 points and 5.8 rebounds per game this
year.  Fife blocked 41 shots last year.
Weaknesses: The guard position, where Terrell Brandon was the PAC-10's Player of
the Year and the 11th selection in the NBA draft (now with the Cleveland Cavs).
Prediction: 9th

University: Washington
Coach:      Lynn Nance (3rd year)
1991 record: 14-14, 5-13, 10th in PAC
Strengths: Not many.  The best returning player is senior Doug Meekins, who
averaged 16.1 points and 6.5 rebounds.
Weaknesses: Looking for quality starters to replace 3 starters (among 5 seniors)
who graduated from a team that shocked Arizona and UCLA before sinking to the
bottom of the standings.
Prediction: 10th

    Do we really need to post all this stuff off of USENET?
    Anybody that wants to read it can access it. Isn't it sort of redundant
    to post it here as well?
    
    I'm trying to harp on you Mike I just think it's kind of silly to be
    cross posting stuff everywhere if you don't need to be.
    
    
    Metz
     

    Not all of it is from Usenet.  Especially -.2!

    Wow!  I see a new topic that might hold some interesting tidbits and in
    the first several replies I see some things that I just can't let slide
    without presenting some facts.
    
    To anyone with a serious interest in the comparative academic
    excellence and rigor of Arizona State University and the University of
    Michigan, the statements made by Mike Heiser are at best laughable.  I
    was almost ready to ignore them until I saw this ridiculous statement
    and decided to take ten minutes to duck into the library to see if I
    could find any research that might go deeper than knowing people
    who are Michigan alums:
    
    > ...but he also unjustifiably called ASU a party school.  That's my main
    > beef.  It's no more of a party school than Indiana or Michigan (and I
    > know because I have Michigan alums in my family).
    A few minutes turned up the following:
    
    ---------------
    
                                   ASU                     UM
    Test scores:
      Average SAT          455 verbal, 510 math        570 verbal, 630 math
      Average ACT          21 composite                27 composite
    
    Faculty:
      % holding PhD        80                          90
      stud/fac ratio       23 to 1                     13 to 1
    
    Selectivity rating:    Less competitive            Highly competitive
    
    Source:  _The Right College_, 1988, College Research Group of Concord,
    Massachusetts.
    
    ---------------
    
    From a different college guide, we have figures almost identical to the
    figures above (1989 versus 1988).  This guide offers textual
    descriptions of different aspects of the universities.  While there is
    too much to type it all in (I encourage you to look at this yourself to
    ensure that the excerpts here are not taken out of context and are
    representative of the descriptions as a whole), what follows are some
    pertinent excerpts: 
    
    ASU:  "Academic Environment:  . . . About 50% of students entering
    as freshmen graduate eventually; 30% of freshmen do not return for
    sophomore year."
    
    UM:  "Academic Environment:  Students are reported as equally concerned
    with occupational/professional goals and scholarly/intellectual
    pursuits.  Pressures for academic achievement appear moderately intense
    for university as a whole, intense for colleges of Literature, Science,
    and the Arts, and Engineering. . . .  About 77% of students entering
    as freshmen graduate eventually; 6% of freshman do not return for
    sophomore year."
    
    ASU:  "Campus Life:  Nature of campus life reflects the small percentage
    of students living on campus and large percentage of transfers. . . .
    [ data on percentages living in dorms, frats, etc. ]  More than
    86% of students leave campus on weekends."
    
    UM:  "Campus Life:  . . . those likely to feel most at home at Michigan
    are the 'extremely career oriented' . . . least at home: those who
    want a 'party' school. . . . Great variety of cultural and intellectual
    activities on campus.  Problem for student is one of selection."

    Source:  _Comparative Guide to American Colleges_, 14th Edition, 1989,
    James Cass and Max Birnbaum.
    
    ----------------
    
    Sid (Michigan alumnus, who invites you to seek other sources as well so
    as to be better informed)

    UCLA did not have much trouble with ASU last night
    
    Look out Arizona, I get a feeling that home record is in jeopardy
    Saturday!! (-:
    
    chris UCLA '82

>    86% of students leave campus on weekends."
>    
>    UM:  "Campus Life:  . . . those likely to feel most at home at Michigan
>    are the 'extremely career oriented' . . . least at home: those who
>    want a 'party' school. . . . Great variety of cultural and intellectual
>    activities on campus.  Problem for student is one of selection."
    
    Sid, you left out what percentage leave UM on weekends.  Regardless,
    there are "partiers" everywhere.  Some of the most intelligent people I
    know are the worst and most eccentric.
    
>    (Michigan alumnus, who invites you to seek other sources as well so
>    as to be better informed)
    
    ASU was rated as one of the top 10 campuses by the New York Times last
    year!
    
    Re: PAC-10 last night
    
    ASU stunk up the joint, but Arizona bombed USC (University of Spoiled
    Children(tm)) to raise their home streak to 71 in a row.
    
    Mike (currently enrolled at ASU)

    
> >    86% of students leave campus on weekends."
> >    
> >    UM:  "Campus Life:  . . . those likely to feel most at home at Michigan
> >    are the 'extremely career oriented' . . . least at home: those who
> >    want a 'party' school. . . . Great variety of cultural and intellectual
> >    activities on campus.  Problem for student is one of selection."
>     
>     Sid, you left out what percentage leave UM on weekends.  Regardless,
>     there are "partiers" everywhere.  Some of the most intelligent people I
>     know are the worst and most eccentric.
    
    Sorry for leaving that out.  I tried to include directly comparable
    information if available and I didn't see that stat for UM.  However,
    on further review, it is in there:  "About 10% of resident students
    leave campus on weekends."
    
    BTW, I got the two sources quoted from the DEC Library at CXO.
        
    Let me be clear on why I even entered my reply.  It was not in any way
    meant to denigrate ASU.  It was in response to an apparent attempt to
    equate the academic standards and rigors of ASU and UM, that was itself
    meant to rebut the allegation that Bruce Snyder would be better able to
    recruit at ASU because the academic demands at ASU are not as great as
    at UCB.  Right?
    
    Anyway, I do believe that, academically, there is a significant
    difference between ASU and UCB and that there is a significant
    difference between ASU and UM and that there is little difference
    between UM and UCB.  There are many studies that back that assertion.
    
    It was this point that I wanted to make, and that you implied was not
    so.  Michigan is most definitely *NOT* a party school.  Not being a
    party school does not imply that people don't party.  In fact, people
    at places like Michigan, and UCB, tend to party hard when partying. 
    But that is not what being a party school means.
    
    I honestly don't know that the difference in academic demands makes
    recruiting any easier or harder.  I could make arguments either way on
    that.
    
>     ASU was rated as one of the top 10 campuses by the New York Times last
>     year!
    
    Again, hoping that you don't misinterpret this, but top 10 for what?
    Academics?  Isn't that what you and the noters in the preceding replies
    were talking about?  If not, then forget everything I've said.
    
    Sid

    UCLA edged UofA on Saturday, 89-87, and ended the Wildcats 71 game home
    win streak (spanned 4 years!).  That Don MacLean is a great player!
    They completely frustrated the Wildcats inside game.
    
    ASU was leading USC by 10 with 12 minutes to go, but that's the last
    score I saw.
    
    Mike

    RE: -1
    
    I couldn't believe that the UCLA - Arizona games wasn't on National TV
    
    From some friends still around L.A. Tracy Murray was the *star*
    for the Bruins
    
    I'm glad that (home) Streak is over, now maybe the Wildcats can
    learn to win on the road also (-:
    
    chris UCLA '82

>    I couldn't believe that the UCLA - Arizona games wasn't on National TV
    
    Ditto, as least I got to see it locally.
    
>    From some friends still around L.A. Tracy Murray was the *star*
>    for the Bruins
    
    No way!  Murray only had a couple points at intermission!  MacLean was the
    man of the hour and cashed in almost 40 points!  He kept UCLA in the
    lead when UofA made their stretch runs.  MacLean will make a very good
    NBA player: can shoot the lights out with range, and has good size.
    
    Harold "Baby Jordan" Miner also came close to a 40 pt game in leading
    USC over ASU, 69-64.
    
    Mike

Top Ten Longest Home Winning Streaks in NCAA Basketball History:

   TEAM               YEARS     #OF GAMES
1) Kentucky          43-55          129
2) St. Bonaventure   48-61          99
3) UCLA              70-76          98
4) Cincinnati        57-64          86
5) Marquette         67-73          81
6) Arizona           45-51          81
7) Lamar             78-84          80
8) Long Beach St.    68-74          75
9) UNLV              74-78          72
10) Arizona          87-92          71

		PAC	RW-HL*	TOT
UCLA		2-0	2-0	10-0
Stanford	2-0	2-0	10-1
Washington	1-0	0-0	7-4
USC		1-1	1-0	9-3
Oregon State	1-1	1-1	9-6
Arizona		1-1	0-1	10-2
Oregon		1-1	0-1	5-6
Washington St.	0-1	0-0	12-2
Arizona State	0-2	0-2	9-5
California	0-2	0-0	6-6
    
    *Road Wins - Home Losses

    Four of Bruce Snyder's assistants at Cal have joined him at ASU.
    
    Rod Marinelli - asst. head coach & defensive line
    Don Cozetto   - offensive line coach
    Donnie Henderson - outside linebackers
    Phil Snow - secondary
    
    Don Bocchi was retained from Larry Marmie's staff by Snyder.  He's the
    wide receiver coach.
    
    Keith Gilbertson left the Huskies (offensive coordinator) to become the
    head coach at Cal.
    
    Mike

    Re: Gilbertson
    
    The Huskies are now paying the price for their success the past couple
    of seasons.  They have lost Gilbertson, and two other assistants, one
    of whom went to New Mexico as defensive coordinator, and another who
    went to Maryland to be offensive coordinator.  Losing Gilbertson will
    hurt.  He was not only a good offensive coach, but also an excellent
    recruiter.  
    
    It now looks like Jim Lambright, the Huskies' defensive coordinator and
    assistant head coach, is in line to succeed James when he retires in a
    few years.  Many thought Gilbertson had been brought in to be the 
    successor, but that obviously isn't true anymore, unless they bring
    him back from Cal.
    
    Pete

    just got this from a friend in the Bay
    
    There is a rumour in Palo Alto, that Bill Walsh
    is going to become the Stanford Cardinal Head Football Coach
    
    chris UCLA `82

    Bill Walsh is the new Stanford Coach!  Rumors around here said he
    wanted the Niner job back, but settled for going back to Stanford.  He
    only coached 2 seasons there, but has a strong tie to the school.  A
    reporter from the S.F. Examiner said that Walsh really missed coaching,
    but not the grunt work.  Supposedly, Stanford will give him the staff
    for the grunt work.  This might make Enberg & Parcells the NBC team.
    
    Now that Gilbertson is at Cal, their offensive coordinator, Steve
    Mariucci (was going for the head post) is expected to re-join Snyder at
    ASU.
    
    The PAC is going to get really tough with all these changes.
    
    Looking forward to a great season,
    Mike

    -1
    Walsh. If there's any coach ND should fear it's Walsh. Should be
    an interesting game at South Bend next October when Stanford visits
    the Irish. And Walsh has a full year of up-front scouting to boot.
    Tain't fair!! 8^).
    
    Let's hope 'SC keep its coach and remains in the doldrums. Shootin'
    for 10 straight.
    
    MikeL
    

    Now if Todd Christiansen would just go back to BYU, I'd be a happy man.
    
    	--dan'l

                 
    I agree, Snyder's decision had nothing to do with the quality of life,
    and if it did, "quality of life" is totally a personal judgement
    anyway.  Berkeley is no "better" than Tempe, at least as far as Bruce
    Snyder is concerned.
    
    But, in essence, Snyder did "sell out", as so many college coaches do
    in today's intercollegiate sports world.  The ASU job is "better" than
    Cal's only because they are more willing to spend more money on it in
    an all-out effort to *WIN*.  We all love our sports, but in that love
    we shouldn't be deluded enough to think otherwise (and as I wrote 
    before, I felt Cal was heading in that direction too, but apparently 
    and perhaps to their credit they are not).  Winning and the money 
    associated with winning are what it's all about, period.  At a 
    supposedly "amateur", non-professional level, that's very easy for me 
    to be cynical about.  But it's also refreshing to occasionally see 
    someone like Bill Walsh turn down piles of money to return to coach at 
    Stanford, too, but that's very much the exception.
    
    But, hey, it's not just the coaches who have turned college athletics 
    into what they are today, and I certainly can't blame then for wanting
    to make the best living they can, either...
    
    glenn
    

>        -< It boils down to money, both the job and quality of program >-
>    But, in essence, Snyder did "sell out", as so many college coaches do
    
    Again that just isn't true.  Sunday's paper broke down his contract and
    only $200K was his actual salary.  Not much more than what he received
    at Cal.  The rest of the $250K is made up of incentives and allowances
    (PAC-10 championship, Rose Bowl victory, house, car, season tickets, 
    etc.).  The $450K figure is a best case scenario.
    
    Mike

    
    > Again that just isn't true.  Sunday's paper broke down his contract and
    > only $200K was his actual salary.  Not much more than what he received
    > at Cal.  The rest of the $250K is made up of incentives and allowances
    > (PAC-10 championship, Rose Bowl victory, house, car, season tickets, 
    > etc.).  The $450K figure is a best case scenario.
    
    Did these incentives realistically exist at Cal?  I was led to believe
    in reading about this job change that, like with many bigtime coaching 
    jobs, the incentives and perks to the ASU job are most of the 
    compensation.
    
    Heck, Mike, the article itself starts off with an "influential ASU
    booster" telling Snyder from a panoramic viewpoint of the scenery that 
    "it's all yours".  It then goes on to state that the money really is 
    better at ASU.  That's not a very effective way to go about convincing 
    someone that Snyder didn't "sell out"...
    
    Still, I concede that Snyder's move in light of contemporary college
    athletics is completely understandable if somewhat distasteful, and that 
    the stuff from the Bay Area folks about the "quality of life" pure 
    snobbery...
    
    glenn
    

    1.  Quality of life may exist for a coach's family, but not the coach
    himself, since few coaches have time for any sort of life outside of
    work (and it takes a special breed of woman to be married to a football
    coach).  I don't know what Snyder's family situation is like but
    quality of life for himself doesn't really matter (I would rather live
    in Berkeley than Tempe any day).
    
    2.  I'm not surprised that ASU can offer more to Snyder than Cal could. 
    Berkeley has always been kind of ambivalent about athletics while ASU
    is probably gung-ho, full speed ahead.  Booster support is probably
    better at ASU.  Opportunities for outside income are probably better at
    ASU.  
    
    3.  Recruiting will probably be easier at ASU for two reasons -
    academics probably aren't as tough, and Berkeley still has the taint of
    the radical sixties about it.
    
    I think Snyder did the right thing but I'm sorry he left Cal.  I like
    it when schools with good academic reputations do well (with one major
    exception).
    
    John

    The Huskies upset #7 Arizona last night 62-60.  A baseline jumper was
    sank at the buzzer to beat the Wildcats.
    
    ASU beat the Cougars by 8 in Pullman.
    
    Mike

    Mike, what's the makeup of UCLA's team this season?  I know only that
    McLean is a senior.  
    
    Two other questions.  How's O'Bannon's recovery coming along, and what
    do next years recruits look like?
    
    WILDCAT

    O'Bannon is supposedly working out with the team and may be available
    this weekend.
    
    Not sure about the class state of their roster though.
    
    Mike

    RE: .50
    
    As an UCLA alumni, I try to stay in tune with the rosters, but being
    on the other coast makes it very difficult at times, anyways... these
    fellas are on the team
    
    Don MacLean      Sr   NCAA active scoring leader
    Tracy Murray     Sr 
    Ed O'Bannon      Fr
    Darrick Martin   Sr
    Gerald Madkins   Sr
    Mitchell Butler  Jr
    Shon Tarver      So
    Rodney Zimmerman So
    Tyus Edney       Fr
    
    apologies for those I missed   chris UCLA '82

    re last 2.  Thanks.  I'll try and look up UCLA's recruting information
    for next season.
    
    WILDCAT

    ASU completed the sweep of Washington by beating the Huskies yesterday.
    
    O'Bannon played in his first game against one of the Oregon (State I
    think).  He looked pretty good too in the highlights.  UCLA just edged
    them out in a tough game at Poly Pavilion.
    
    Arizona beat the Cougars to save face.
    
    Mike

			PAC	RW-HL	TOT
	UCLA		4-0	2-0	12-0
	Stanford	3-0	2-0	11-1
	USC		3-1	1-0	11-3
	Washington	2-1	0-1	8-5
	Arizona		2-2	1-1	11-3
	Arizona State	2-2	2-2	11-5
	Oregon State	1-3	0-1	9-8
	Oregon		1-3	0-1	5-8
	California	0-3	0-0	6-7
	Washington St.	0-3	0-2	12-4

    Melvin Robinson, a 7', 280 lb. junior from St. Louis University
    announced today that he is transferring to ASU.  Frieder now has the
    big man that he failed to recruit in the fall.
    
    USC's assistant sports information director, Gary Pine, said, "He's a
    very physical player.  He'll probably be the best center in the PAC-10
    when (Arizona's Sean) Rooks leaves."
    
    Robinson had 18 points, 16 rebounds, and 3 blocked shots in a Dec. 2
    loss to USC.
    
    Mike

    RE: -1
    
    If Melvin Robinson is as good as Smith&Street say, then
    ASU will be tough, good job Frieder
    
    chris UCLA '82

    
    He's also a headcase who quit the St Louis team.  Next year is his last
    year of eligibility. 
    
    I don't think he'll make an impact.

    Street & Smith's rated him as one of the best centers in the country. 
    Unfortunately, everyone else says he's the second coming of Joe Barely
    Cares.
    
    Mike

    Don MacLean broke Jabbar's all-time scoring record at UCLA last
    weekend.  Of course, it took MacLean 4 years to break what Jabbar did
    in 3, but it still took over 20 years for someone to break the record.
    
    MacLean is also second on the list for highest points per game average.
    Jabbar is first, and Bill Walton is third.
    
    Mike

ASU defeated Arizona in Tempe last night 77-74.  It was Coach Frieder's 
first victory (in Arizona) over his longtime friend Lute Olson.  The Sun
Devils led the whole game.  Mario Bennett had 35 points.  The Wildcats 
were 16-30 from the line.

Last night's paper (before the game) had an interesting quote from Lute
Olson.  He said that ASU's sophmore and freshman classes are just as 
talented or better than Arizona's and that Frieder is making serious in-roads
in the recruiting wars.

Mike

    Re: more on Snyder
    
    ABC-TV signed ASU for 4 televised games this season.  ABC stated that
    the Phoenix area is ranked nationally at #5 for the highest level of 
    college football TV viewers.  The Bay area is #12.
    
    Besides, we don't have spray painted graffiti on all our buildings
    either.
    
    Mike

    Arizona vs. Michigan should easily give us the best Round 2 matchup.

    Mike, 
    
    I haven't been impressed with Arizona when I've seen them.  Overrated
    IMO.  So is USC.  However, I won't be surprised to see Zona beat
    Michigan if they play.  
    
    JD

    I pretty much agree JD, especially since I'm a Sun Devil ;-)
    USC is basically a 1 man team (Miner).  UCLA is the best in the west.
    Stanford could cause some problems for some teams.  
    
    ASU might pick up an NIT berth.

       Stanford has one player that can carry the team, Adam Okeefe(sp).
    They will be lucky if they don't lose by 5 in the first round.

                                                    Night Flier    ~~v~~

    Yo Mikey H.,
    
    My beloved Notre Dame Fighting Irish baseball team is making the trek
    to the Land of the Golden Sun this weekend ah believes ( 3/20-22)
    to go to war with the ASU Sun Devils for a three game series. Irish
    traditionally schedule tough matchups early in the year to hone their
    competetive skills (they follow this with a short trip to Florida
    vs. Miami,South Florida and Florida ah believes). This year's Irish
    team is supposed to be purty good, pre-ranked in the Top 20.
    
    How is ASU supposed to be this year?
    And if you don't catch any of the games, cain ya let me know what
    the skinny is on the series?? Be interested to hear how the Phoenix
    area pundits think of the Irish.
    
    Danke,
    MikeL
    

>   vs. Miami,South Florida and Florida ah believes). This year's Irish
>   team is supposed to be purty good, pre-ranked in the Top 20.
>   
>   How is ASU supposed to be this year?
    
    ASU was pre-ranked in the Top 10 in more than one poll.  They might
    have slipped a bit after losing 2 of 3 in Texas, but I think they swept
    Miami here in Tempe.
    
>    And if you don't catch any of the games, cain ya let me know what
>    the skinny is on the series?? 
    
    Devils have their brooms out ;-)
    
    > Be interested to hear how the Phoenix area pundits think of the Irish.
    
    They think they're overrated in all things ;-)
    
    hope this helps,
    Mike

    I don't follow NCAA baseball too closely, but I don't see how ND has a
    shot.  I'm surprised ASU scheduled them ;-)  Maybe they're trying to
    work out a football or basketball deal or something.
    
    Mike

    Mike,
    ASU has been trying to get ND to schedule a football game for years.
    I've heard that ND wants a home and home but ASU jest wants a game 
    at Tempe. I really don't know though.
    As far as baseball, ND has fielded a strong team ( well by Northern
    standards) for a couple of years. Wouldn't write 'em off so quickly.
    And they did split with Florida teams lasted year on their trip south 
    I believe. We'll see.
    
    MikeL
    

    I think Arizona has a great shot.  The key to their team is Othick.
    When he can stick a few 3's they can beat anybody in the country.
    Is Stokes back playing?  If he is that gives them Rooks,Stokes,Mills,
    Reeves, and Othick.  As good a starting five as they come.  I don't
    know much about their bench though.....
    
    Jimbo

    I didn't see the Arizona game, but would like to know...
    
    Is Lute "Choke" Olson still the same or did the team blow it?
    
    Mike

    So Mikey,
    Wha' happened wif ASU-ND baseball lasted weekend?
    
    MikeL
    

    
    #15 ASU, proving that #11 ND gets its ranking based on its name, swept
    ND 3-0.

    Bruce -
    
    I don't think ND got the ranking on its name.  Losing three to ASU at
    ASU isn't the end of the world.  I expect ND will settle in aroudn 15
    for the year.   I doubt they've had a home game yet - I know they were
    in Seattle the week before.  I'd imagine all the travel and road games
    would start to take their toll.  UMaine used to have the same problem. 
    They'd have to play about 15-20 road games early in order to get geared
    up.  They'd make the College World Series, but they'd take some lumps -
    especially late in the trip - to teams in Florida...
    
    Jd

    
    Oh yeah - just to give soem backround.
    
    Notre Dame was 45-16 last year.  That record was not given to them
    because of their name.  They have been 91-28 over the last two years -
    but have been left out of the NCAA tourney (the name sure helped then,
    didn't it....)  In fact, they haven't been in the CWS in the last 10
    years.    ASU was 35-27 last year and unranked.  
    
    JD

    
    JD,  I was just trying to tease the NDers, you remember how that works.
    
    FWIW, ASU had what most people consider the toughest schedule in NCAA
    baseball history last year.  15 of their first 18 games were against
    teams in the Top 12 in the country.  Their pitching staff
    disintegrated, and they lost a couple key players.  This year they've
    been a surprise (now ranked #10 after beating ND), as most people had
    them out of the Top 20, considering the players they lost to
    graduation.
    
    Brews  

    Tis Ok Brews,
    
    Da comp is the goal ( of course comp and wins is cool)
    Off to sunny FLA fer more comp!
    
    MikeL
    
    

    Bruce 
    
    Maz's rated ASU #19.  Said they got some JUCO's to revamp the pitching,
    and have three impact frosh - Todd Cady, Antone Williamson and Jacob
    Cruz.
    
    JD

    
    Arizona State underachieved in a big way last year, tough schedule or 
    not.  I remember that they were ranked #1 in the country before the
    season started, they fell apart and didn't finish a whole lot better
    than .500.  When I was out there visiting last spring I remember there
    being talk in the papers about disappointment and dissension and the 
    like...
    
    glenn
    
    

    The injuries and the brawl in Texas didn't help either.  You people are
    just jealous! ;-)
    
    Mike

    speakin' of ND...
    
    I say we ship Lute "Choke" Olson back to the Midwest with the rest of
    the Big 10 chokers
    
    ;-)

    Don't know what Olson gots to do with ND, he's a Iowa guy, Big Ten yes,
    Midwest yes, ND no.
    
    Choker?? Not in BBall this year (Big Ten that is)
    
    

    Snyder surprised many by picking a freshman to be the new ASU QB. 
    Reasoning was his skills better fit Snyder's offensive plans.

    
    Mike, tell everyone about ASU's NEW freshman QB. 

>    Mike, tell everyone about ASU's NEW freshman QB. 
    
    Anything specific Brews?
    
    As for the hoops team, sounds like Frieder may not be able to field a
    team unless prison intramurals count.
    
    Mike

    
    I was talking about how they announced one freshman, the junior starter
    from last year whined and ran away to Ohio St and then the freshman
    started is kicked off the team fer stealin, and now they have another
    freshman, who they were about to turn into a LB, with a 5'6" 160 pound
    (no, it's not JAke) freshman walk on as the backup.  Oh, and they play
    Washington on Saturday.  YIKES!!
    
    I heard the game is sold out.  They need extra seats for all the parole
    officers.
    
     

    Garrick is a thief and Powers went to OSU?!  I didn't hear that
    (especially since I've been too busy for news)!

    
    McGee is the thief.  It's been all over the papers, you been in a hole?

    I don't buy the papers either.
    
    >you been in a hole?
    
    sort of.  Working full-time and going to ASU full-time can do that to a
    person.

Article 7 of clari.local.arizona:
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From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.local.arizona,clari.sports.top
Subject: ASU calls for investigation of student-athletes
Date: 4 Sep 92 01:15:47 GMT

	TEMPE, Ariz. (UPI) -- Saying he wants ``no further surprises,''
Arizona State President Lattie Coor on Thursday ordered a police
background check into all 550 student-athletes on the campus, which has
seen 12 athletes face criminal charges or complaints in the last 14
months.
	Coor did not lift the suspension of starting quarterback Garrick
McGee, who was suspended indefinitely on Tuesday, four days before ASU
opens its season against defending national champion Washington. McGee
was suspended after officials went to a classroom and served him with a
summons charging three counts of felony burglary. Suspended with him was
reserve linebacker Tim Smith, who was also charged with burglarizing
three campus-area stores between October and December 1991.
	Coor expressed confidence in Athletic Director Charles Harris, who
has come under fire for the scandal, and named him to head a four-man
team to get to the bottom of the problems.
	``This is a very dark day for ASU, not only for the intercollegiate
athletic program but the university as a whole,'' Coor said as he opened
a news conference.
	In recent days, he said, ``a pattern of illegal behavior that is
simply unacceptable on a university campus has emerged.''
	With the campus reeling from new reports Thursday that four athletes
-- two football players and two basketball players -- had appeared in
court in the past month on warrants for failing to pay previously-
ordered fines and restitution, Coor said he had ordered checks on every
one of the school's athletes. He said he wanted the checks completed
within 48 hours. Harris said the checks had begun, with the help of
campus police and outside police agencies.
	Coor said Paul Ward, general counsel to ASU and a member of the
investigative team, was charged with finding out ``each and every
contact'' that school officials might have had concerning criminal
activity by athletes.
	``I want to know who knew what, when, what was done, what was not
done,'' Coor said.
	In the long term, Coor said he wanted the task force to come up with
a framework for sanctions against student athletes found guilty of
misconduct and a model for evaluating recruits, not only for athletic
and academic abilities, but personal characteristics.
	Student-athletes must be held to a higher standard than other
students because ``the student-athlete represents the university in
clear and specific ways,'' Coor said.
	``Whatever it takes to do this right, we will do it,'' he said.
	Named to serve with Harris and Ward on the task force were Milton
Schroeder, a professor of law and chairman of the school's committee on
NCAA infractions, and Jerry Kingston, professor of economics and the
faculty athletic representative.
	Coor's action came at the end of a 48-hour period in which McGee and
Smith were suspended, basketball player Jamal Faulkner was released from
jail after serving six days for violating probation on a stolen credit
card charge, and it was reported that football players Shante Carver and
Israel Stanley and basketball players Mario Bentley and Tes Whitlock
recently had been in court.
	With McGee apparently sidelined for the Washington game, the
quarterbacking duties fall to redshirt freshman Troy Rauer, who had been
No. 4 in the depth chart and switched to safety only a week ago.
	McGee's backup, Grady Benton, is serving a one-game suspension for
attempted use of a credit card, and No. 3 quarterback Bret Powers quit
ASU and enrolled at Ohio State last Friday. Powers started eight games
last season and completed 127 of 234 pass attempts for 1,500 yards and
eight touchdowns.
	Bruce Snyder, who will make his debut as ASU coach Saturday, said he
still hopes that McGee's suspension might be lifted before the
Washington game.
	``But the issue is trying to get this team ready to play and the
focus of that is the players on the field, so I've got to wire in on
that,'' he said.
	Snyder came to ASU from California after Larry Marmie was fired as
the Sun Devils' coach last December.

    
    Except the Cal program is having similar problems.  

    McGee was removed from suspension yesterday, but I haven't heard yet if
    he'll play against Nebraska on Saturday.
    
    Meanwhile, Kilgore, Jim Brock's pitching coach for the last 6 years,
    was arrested yesterday.
    
    Mike

>Did you see it Mike? I'm sure you are pretty upset about it.

    Yeah I saw it and wasn't happy, but most of ASU's fans saw some hope
    and potential in it.  This team is very young and their inexperience
    showed.  Both QB's are freshmen and can only improve.  Benton is ahead
    of McGee right now, but McGee will be a great one.  He looked like a
    young Randall Cunningham out there on some moves.  On the other hand,
    McGee also looked like a rookie at times and his 2 INT's led to 2 NU
    TD's.  Benton was great in rallying ASU from a 38-10 halftime deficit
    to a 38-24 score and were knocking on the door for more.

    Nebraska proved they were the better team at this point and time, but 
    there is no way they are 3 TD's better than ASU.  Total yardage was 514 
    to 369 in ASU's favor.  They moved the ball at will, but made some crucial 
    mistakes (12 penalties, most of which killed them as well as the 5 
    turnovers) and the refs hurt them a couple times as well.  This was only 
    the *5th* time during Osborne's 20 year career at Nebraska that his team 
    has been outgained and still won.  And ASU did all this with their best 
    All-American receiver, Eric Guliford, watching the game at home on TV.  
    ASU was successful moving the ball (down by 14), Osborne was forced to go 
    for a 4th and 1 on their own 39 early in the 4th quarter rather than punt 
    it back to the visitors.

    Sophmore Mario Bates, the nation's second leading rusher, is gone for the
    season.  It was thought at first he had a sprained knee, but it has
    been determined that his leg is broken.  He rushed for 118 yards on 23 
    carries with 2 TD's against the Huskers.  It was his 4th 100 yard game in 
    a row dating back to last season.  The injury came on the next to last 
    play of the game, which is really dumb.  Snyder should've pulled him.

    The fumbled punt by Brass with 2:13 remaining in the 1st half hurt. 
    The score was only 17-10 at the time.  It ended up being another one of 
    the few ASU turnovers that led to an NU TD.  ASU's Guliford is probably 
    the leading PAC-10 punt return man (as well as receiving) and chances are 
    that wouldn't have happened.

    On ASU's next possession, a 32-yard run by Bates to the NU 20 was
    called back due to illegal motion.  Two plays later, Bates fumbled but
    McGee RECOVERED THE BALL!  The WHACKED Big-8 officials RULED IT NU's 
    BALL!!!  This took away at least a FG from ASU, but probably a TD the
    way they were moving the ball.  Players and coaches tried to put this
    game behind them, but were really irate about this series of calls.

    With 8 minutes left, ASU ruined a chance to come with 7 points twice
    (score was 38-24 at the time).  Davison ran 11 yards to the NU 21 for a 
    first down, but was negated by a 15-yard penalty for chop-blocking.  Four 
    plays later, Benton completed a pass to Bush on 4th and 2, at the NU 24, 
    but was negated by an illegal man downfield.  If what Marty said was
    true about the BIG-8 officials giving it back to the PAC-10, you really
    have to wonder about these calls too.

    Osborne's final word on ASU: "This is a pretty good football team we
    played today.  In some ways, I'm concerned because we didn't stop their
    running game at all.  We were hanging on in the last quarter and a half
    and I don't like that feeling.  I don't like to play football like
    that."

    Final stats:                  ASU                   NU

    First downs                    23                   22
    Rushes-yards               53-251               54-319
    Passing                       263                   50
    Returns                        20                   19
    Comp-att-int              19-27-3               6-14-1
    Punts                        3-42                 6-44
    Fumbles-lost                  3-2                  1-0
    Penalties-yards             12-87                 6-27
    Time of possession          31:27                28:33

    Rushing:              
    Bates                      23-118
    Davison                    19-72
    Benton                      7-53
    Jones                                            17-111
    Lewis                                             6-78
    Brown                                            17-64
    Grant                                            10-28

    Passing:
    McGee                     8-14-2-124
    Benton                   11-14-1-139
    Grant                                           6-14-1-50

    Receiving:
    Snyder                      5-79
    McCoy                       4-61
    Brasher                     3-47
    Montgomery                  3-41
    Bell                                              3-19

>OREGON 30, arizona st 20
    
    ASU once again showed why they are the most penalized team in the
    PAC-10.  As Snyder said, "We're an agressive team, but not a very smart
    team right now."  It was the Ducks first conference win in over a year.
    
>ARIZONA 23, ucla 3
    
    Well the Cats took out last week's Miami frustration out on the poor
    Cubbies.  First time in ions that the Bruins have been held without a
    TD and came dangerously close to being shut out.  Hate to admit it, but
    the Cats are definitely the best team in this state right now.
    
    Since the rest of the world can't compete with the PRO-10, at least
    they have each other.  ;-)
    
    Mike

>>ARIZONA 23, ucla 3

This about puts a_end to the pipe dream about UCLA finishing undefeated
in the PAC-10 and going to the Rose Bowl.

Right now, it looks like a Washington-Michigan rematch. Miami-Penn St
might settle the issue of who's #1 but only if the winner loses a game
later on. If Miami beats Penn St, look for the Canes to leap frog over
the Huskies and reassume the #1 ranking/voting.

>    Since the rest of the world can't compete with the PRO-10, at least
>    they have each other.  ;-)

You don't have to ask Temple how much fun they had at Washington State.

TTom

    But if Penn State beats Miami, Michigan will probably move to #2 and
    then the Rose Bowl could have #1 vs. #2, assuming Washington and
    Michigan remain unbeaten - certainly possible.
    
    When was the last time the Rose Bowl had a say in the National
    Championship?? Was it when USC beat Ohio St a number of years back??
    
    The Crazy Met
    

How 'bout Penn St beats Miami - a real stretch - and then loses at Notre
Dame.

Now we've got something with the Michigan-Washington Rose Bowl.

TTom

    Remember, Penn State is in the Blockbuster even if they end up
    undefeated.  Even if Penn State is undefeated and ranked 2nd or 3rd but 
    ends up playing a patsie in the Blockbuster that'll hurt their chances 
    for a national title.  
    
    I think Corso's a riot on those Saturday scoreboard shows.  Did you
    hear him the other day? - "Hey, what if Wisonsin goes undefeated in the
    Big 10?"
    
    But don't forget about the Buffs!
    
    
    Joe

          
    If Penn State beats Miami, and can beat a Notre Dame team that Michigan 
    only tied, I think they should be #2 for doing Michigan's dirty work.  I
    mean, hell, if you want to contrive a #1 versus #2 matchup just to say
    you have a national championship game, then just make Michigan #2 even
    if they lose three games...
    
    Which brings up another point: how come the boys in charge of the
    Alliance were diligently working to break their own rules to make an 
    exception to include Washington in the Fiesta Bowl (before UCLA lost 
    to Arizona), but it was absolutely no-can-do earlier this year for 
    Penn State?  Penn State saw that they had no postseason options in this
    final pre-Big Ten season, so they simply signed up for what promises to
    be a mediocre Blockbuster appearance.  Why did the rules change?  If
    Penn State can pull off a victory against Miami (I still think it won't
    happen), can rules be changed again, the contract broken and/or the 
    proper authorities paid off?
    
    glenn
    

I think that the deal with Penn St was both a vote against Penn St and
against the Big 10. And all the blame ain't on the side of the bowl
alliance. 

Penn St looked to be trying to play both sides of the line. Firsted they
announce they're joining the Big 10 and then they still wanted to be
treated like a true independent. They learned quickly that they don't
have the clout of Notre Dame to pull this off. 

The Big 10's contribution to all this goes back to the formation of the
CFA, which they didn't join (Penn St was a charter member, however) as
well as a reluctance to give up their ties with the Rose Bowl which is
about the money that that Bowl brings in. To further aggrevate the
situation, the Big 10 signs a deal with some lower bowl that locks in the
#2 Big 10er, leaving the Big 10 completely out of the Alliance.

So Joe signs with the Blockbuster.

TTom

    
    But TTom, isn't everything you've said about the Big 10 also true of
    the Pac-10, including Washington?  The Pac-10 is not in the CFA nor 
    are they officially associated with the Alliance.  The excuse that was 
    given was that "the public would demand such a game".  The public's 
    been demanding a decisive championship game for years, ferchrissakes!
    
> To further aggrevate the
> situation, the Big 10 signs a deal with some lower bowl that locks in the
> #2 Big 10er, leaving the Big 10 completely out of the Alliance.
  
    Is this true?  Either this year or next, doesn't the Big 10 runner-up
    take on the SEC runner-up in the Florida Citrus, and likewise the
    Pac-10 runner-up at another bowl with another conference?  I thought 
    there was some linkage through the conference runners-up.
    
    It's only a one year situation with Penn State, so no real big deal,
    but I disagree that they wanted to have their cake and to eat it to. 
    *Everyone* who's anyone has hooked up with a conference; the Big 10
    deal took a year longer than most (basically because they wanted all
    members playing real conference schedules before becoming members, 
    unlike the Big East format), and the Alliance evolved long *after* 
    any of these decisions were made (in fact, because of them).  Penn 
    State did not make any conscious decisions between Big 10/no bowl and 
    independent/bowl.  The decision was made for them, after the fact.  If
    it affects the bowl matchups, college football fans suffer...  
    
    glenn
    
                                            

 The Fiesta will end up with #1 Miami. I've seen Washington twice this year
 and they're not that good IMO. They'll trip up somewhere along the line this
 year. Their defense hasn't dropped too badly but their offense isn't even
 close to lasted year....

Glenn,

The Big 10 runnerup is signed to some bowl while the PAC 10 runnerup can
enter the fray. Washington coulda potentially ended up with the alliance.

But I think more than that it's the combination of Penn St with the Big
10. I'm not saying it's justified but I think the bowl powers liked Penn
St as a_independent who could always conveniently fill a Fiesta Bowl when
they needed. Of course the same rap could be put on Florida St but the
ACC was a leader in forming the alliance, along with Miami and the Big
East.

Personally, I think it really hurts the Big 10 to lock in both its #1 and
#2 teams. The #2 team ends up playing the WAC champ or SEC runnerup
instead of a chance at a national power. 

TTom

    Miami will probably win the Big East title, and more likely than not
    end up in the Orange Bowl now that Washington looks to be going to the
    Rose Bowl. Upsets could of course throw all of this out of whack.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
     Don't forget stanfud  (said with a new english accent) That team
    looks like it has heart.

    -1,
    Hey,bud. Gonna castrate any bulls thised weekend??
    
    Many 8^)'s
    
    MikeL
    
    Oh and thanks for reminding me of Stanfuhd. I gots the DT's agin
    
    

    
     Nope , not this weekend . be real nice or I WILL get my snips out!!!!!
    
     )
     Ron Sherrill , not jackie
    thank god no relation

    -1,
    Snips??
    You best git the Jaws of Life if'n you're afta me!!
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    
    P.S.
    Stanfuhd looked real good on D agin.  Mebbe they'll have the Huskies
    gaspin' down the road. 
    What's the poop on the 5-0 Coooogs??
    
    

    Glad to see Arizona finally get the recognition they deserve.
    
    Mike

    Well tell us about the Arizona-Stanford game!
    I got to see highlites of the Coug-UCLA and UCal-USC games, but
    nuttin' on the Stanford game.  What happened?
    
    MikeL
    

    Wildcats scorched them 21-6.  The Cardinal were held to 2 FG's keeping
    Arizona's streak alive (haven't allowed a TD in the first half this
    year, against some tough teams too).
    
    In the 2nd quarter, with the score 6-0 Stanford, the Cardinal had a 
    3rd and 8 on their own 13.  Arizona defensive lineman Tedy Bruschi stripped
    Stanford's QB of the ball and ran it to the 1.  Arizona QB George Malauulu
    went in for the sneak to make it 7-6.  The Wildcats never looked back
    from there.
    
    Bill Walsh said days before the game that Arizona could win 7-0 because
    of its defense, but he underestimated their offense.  The Cats rushed
    for 256 yards against a Stanford defense that began the day ranked 2nd
    in the nation against the run.  Arizona held Stanford to -33 yards
    rushing for the game and only 143 yards of total offense for the game.
    
    On the Cats next possession (after the score that made it 7-6), running
    back Chuck Levy ran 45 yards for a TD to make it 14-6.  Billy Johnson
    had a 29 yard run on the previous play.  The drive was 76 yards on 3
    plays.  In the 3rd quarter, fullback Billy Johnson ran 33 yards for a 
    TD to ice the win.  That was a 44 yard drive on 4 plays.
    
    I wish they could play the Huskies now!  Instead, they travel to Cal
    this weekend.

    Wow,
    
    200+ yards on the ground against a tough Cardinal D. And stifling
    Stanford's short passing game. At Palo Alto.  Impressive. 
    UDub better beware.
    

    Of course we won't have to worry about Nother Shame(tm) scheduling
    Arizona or any of the other better PAC-10 schools (beside Stanford and
    USC) ;-)

    
    Hey, Mike, you 'vaning to 'Zona from State these days?  I know you said
    that you've never been associated with a loser school and you never
    will, but this is ridiculous!  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    No I don't attend UA, but respect their current team.  ASU isn't a
    loser school by any means.

    ND has played Arizona in the past, early 80's I believe when they
    were half decent. Yep, ND will schedule Arizona and when it comes
    time to play 'em, U of A will sink back into their normal doormat
    status, and you guys will moan how ND schedules only patsies ( this
    year is an anomaly). Anyhoo, ND gits UDub in a home and home in '95
    and '96 I believes.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Hey Mikie, check what happened the last time ND played UA (and then
    you'll see why they don't play'em any more, it's called the Miami
    affect).
    
    Brews

    I don't remember ND ever coming here.  Going by Brews' info, I take it
    that UA either beat them or scared them so bad they wet their pants.
    
    Mike

    Was that the 3-0 game? Under the Faustian regime?
    
    I don't recall any results. Yea and I'm real sure UA is lobbying
    real hard to play ND. 8^). Hey, I wanted ND to continue to play Miami.
    They're jest in a cool down period (exceptin' possible bowls). Anyhoo
    lasted time I checked, ND beat Miami in the final matchup ( so far).
    
    Hail, asks USC if ND tried to back out of dat series when it was
    ND losing 7 outta 10 wif two ties in the 60's and 70's.  UA said
    thanks fer playin' us ND and giving us the national exposure.
    Now we'll jest go back to our normal pastures. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

>           -< Feelin' yo oats UA boys? where were y'all preaseason >-
    
    Preseason ain't squat.  Postseason is where it's at.

    Tain't talking about whefre UA was preseason. Referring to YOU guys.
    Where was all that UA backing back in September?  Kindas sneaked up
    on you eh?  Even if well-deserved now, y'all is bandwagon jumpers.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    I was referring to the UA game where one of the Zendejas brothers
    kicked the game winner.  
    
    Brews

    
    I ain't no 'cat wagon jumper.  Don't like them at all!  Just like da
    Irish less!
    
    Brews

    My ASU Sun Droods shutout UCLA 20-0, in the L.A. Coliseum, on Saturday 
    night to end that school's 21 year, 245 game consecutive scoring streak.
    UCLA only crossed midfield 3 times and had only 158 total yards against the
    great ASU defense.  UCLA rushed for 26 times for only 30 yards.  They
    never threatened to score until there was less than a minute left when
    they moved to the ASU 1 yard line.  On first down, DB Lenny McGill
    stripped UCLA back Daron Washington of the ball with 25 seconds left 
    to seal the shutout.  UCLA is now 0-4 in the PAC and off to their worst 
    conference start ever.  It was ASU's 3rd win in a row and only the 2nd 
    time they've beaten UCLA in 12 meetings.  It was the first time since 1986 
    (Rose Bowl year) that ASU has recorded 2 shutouts in a season and the 
    first time since 1982 that they did it on the road.  
    
    On the offensive side of the ball, 4th string (that's all they have
    healthy) tailback Kevin Galbreath rushed 44 times for 183 yards.  ASU
    also had a time of possession of 39:10 to UCLA's 20:50.  It was 14-0 at
    the half.
    
    Up the coast in Berkley, the Wildcats beat Cal 24-17 to move into the
    top 20 (#17).  The best defense in the land only allowed Cal 25 yards
    rushing on 31 carries, but yielded 365 yards passing.  Arizona ran for
    134 yards and passed for 112.  The defense scored a TD on a 40 yard INT
    return by Brandon Sanders.  They also blocked a Cal punt and returned
    the ball to the 1, setting up a QB sneak by Malauulu on the next play.
    The Cats also recovered an onside kick late in the game after Cal's
    last score to seal the win.  Arizona has still not yielded a first half 
    TD yet this year.
    
    The great play of both school's defenses lately are increasing this
    year's anticipation of this year's state rivalry.
    
    Current PAC-10 standings:
    
    Conference                       Overall
    Team           W  L  T  PTS  OP  W  L  T  PTS  OP
    Washington     4  0  0  107  46  7  0  0  194  67
    Washington St. 3  1  0  108  78  6  1  0  224  138
    USC            3  1  0  100  72  4  1  1  151  113
    Stanford       3  1  0   73  56  6  2  0  185  119
    ARIZONA        3  1  1  102  63  4  2  1  158   74
    ARIZONA ST.    2  2  0   87  74  4  3  0  169  124
    Cal            1  3  0   99  86  3  4  0  186  166
    Oregon         1  3  0   50  97  3  4  0  146  140
    Oregon St.     0  4  1   58 158  1  6  1  133  285
    UCLA           0  4  0   27  92  3  4  0  116  123

    So who beat UA in the Pac 10 earlier thised year?
    
    MikeL
    

    I think it was Washington St. in their opening game.

washington st 23, ARIZONA 20
arizona 14, OREGON ST 14
MIAMI-FL 8, arizona 7
ARIZONA 23, ucla 3
arizona 21, STANFORD 6
arizona 24, CALIFORNIA 17

The dawgs don't deserve to be #1 after playing Pacific that close...
If they manage to make it through the rest of the season undefeated
(arizona, stanford et al still left....) I'd have to rate them co #1
with Miami again but not right now...

If they make it to the rose bowl and wipe another over rated big 10 opponent
it will come down to who Miami plays in their bowl game again...

I can't believe Lee Corso and Craig James are gushing over Michigan again.
The Big 10 is the wimpiest conference around...The Pac 10 (despite what
JD rants about) is by far the toughest conference in the nation this year..
Just look at what's happened to UCLA after being picked co-favorites to
win the PAC 10 this year....

I'm looking forward to a decent Apple Cup again....


Metz

    Agreed.
    This year Pac 10 > Big Ten.  Michigan has rolled over the rest of the
    Big Ten and piled up impressive #'s. 
    This year it seems the two best teams in the Big Ten are Michigan
    and Michigan's #2 team.
    
    

    
     A little late , about the U of A game vs. Stanfud I was at that game
    and it's a wonder Stanfuds QB Stenstrom made it out alive. The cats
    were very impressive on D. They also have very fast running backs.
    The only thing they appear to be missing is a QB who can throw.

    
     Well it's another one of Stanfuds games that will be tough. They
    play the Huskies at Washington. If the Offensive line does not improve
    it will be a long painful day for Stenstrom The Cardinal QB. As was
    said in the paper Stanfud's radio announcer has gotten the line down
    that goes like this "Stenstrom back to pass,... BOY did he get drilled"
     I hope to see a good game but Stanfuds line has got to improve.
    

    Well it certainly was an interesting weekend for the desert entries of
    the PRO-10.  UA knocked off #1 Washington and their 22 game winning
    streak, 16-3.  ASU was nipped by WSU 20-18 up in Pullman.
    
    I've been telling you for weeks about the superior UA "Desert Swarm" 
    defense, and Saturday they showed the nation why.  This was no upset folks. 
    Everyone expected them to win, at least here they did.  It could of
    been worse too if the NCAA allowed them to advance muffed punts (dumb rule)!
    The Cats gained 251 yards, 197 rushing, against a team that plastered 
    them 54-0 last year.  The Dogs had 333 yards, but only 90 on the ground.  
    It was the Dogs lowest point output since a loss to BYU in '85.  The Dogs 
    entered the game averaging 30.  
    
    The Cats shut down all-purpose runner Kaufman (53 rushing, 1 receiving,
    -19 in returns), forced 4 turnovers and sacked Brunell 3 times. 
    Brunell completed 25 of 41 passes for a career-high 243 yards, but
    wasted the effort since he couldn't translate it into points.  The Cats
    kept them on their own side of the field most of the day, and turned
    them away inside the 10 twice.  AZ *STILL* hasn't allowed a first-half
    TD all season!  They've limited Miami and Washington to a COMBINED 11
    points.
    
    Cat Kicker, Steve McLauglin made up for missing the one in Miami that
    would've give AZ that victory by hitting 3 crucial FG's.  The Cats won
    time of possession too, 32:42 to 27:18.  I don't think their offense is
    that great though.  Like most wishbone teams, they're too run focused. 
    Maybe it's because they're QB can't throw. ;-)  I believe they meet USC
    next, where a win would move them into sole possession of 2nd in the PAC.
    
    As for ASU, they lost to WSU in Pullman, 20-18.  Their TE dropped the 2
    point conversion in the end zone that would've tied the game with 2:29
    left to play.  Down to their 4th string back, ASU only managed 91 yards
    on 42 carries.  
    
    ASU's defense, which isn't too bad either, accounted for 9 of the
    points and took 3 away from WSU.  ASU also had a FG that was obviously
    good and declared no good by the officials.  The replays didn't agree.
    
    WSU was worse on the ground, gaining 29 yards on 37 carries.  Bledsoe
    passed for 267 yards (22-31-1).  ASU's Benton, the 3rd most efficient
    passer in the country, blew his rating this weekend.  He threw for 181
    yards by completing 15 of 30, but had 3 INT's.  Time of possession was
    about even.
    
    Mike

    
    re -1
    
    ' police alert (there, their, they're special tactics squad)

Arizona is getting no respect outta Las Vegas. The early line has
Southern Cal, at home, favored by 2 over the Wildcats.

>                              -< Raising Arizona >-

To Cohn a phrase...

TTom

    Are they in the top 10 now?  I haven't seen the polls.

Arizona is #10 in both the UPI and the USA Today/CNN polls.

After their performance against Stanford, Southern Cal will be lucky to
score against the Wildcats.

TTom

>After their performance against Stanford, Southern Cal will be lucky to
>score against the Wildcats.
    
    ...not to mention the Washington, Miami, California, etc.

              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 231.145                      PAC-10 Sports                       145 of 146
HBAHBA::HAAS "Gandhi Cactus Juice"                    6 lines   9-NOV-1992 14:31
                                    -< 10 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arizona is #10 in both the UPI and the USA Today/CNN polls.

>>After their performance against Stanford, Southern Cal will be lucky to
>>score against the Wildcats.

>>TTom
    
    Geez, another Jimbo!! 8^). You're slipping with this and BC-ND!!
    
    OK Mikey Heiser, we all know you ain't a wildfire 'Cat feign,
    but you been totin' them UAers when they win. So come outta
    hidin' and give us the skinny on this "great" UA team.
    Overestimating the University of Scorbutic Curs??
    
    MikeL
    

    The Univeristy of Spoiled Children(tm) were lucky that the Cats were
    looking past them toward the big interstate Sun Devil game.  Couple
    that with the typical letdown after bring the Huskies back to reality.
    This game will be the key because the PRO-10's 2 best defenses go 
    head-to-head.
    
    The Cats held Conway in check all day (39 yards).  USC got on the board
    first in the 2nd quarter with a 2 yard run by Crayton, but the 2 point
    conversion failed.  USC 6-0.  UA took the lead early in the 4th on a 41 
    yard reception by Taylor.  UA 7-6.  Only 5 minutes later (6 minutes
    remaining in the game), Rob Johnson lucked out with a fingertip grab in
    the end zone to put USC up 12-7.  The 2 point conversion was good to
    make the final 14-7.  
    
    Back in the valley, the game of the week saw the Devils whip Bruce
    Snyder's former Cal team 28-12.  The vaunted Devil D held Russell White
    (PRO-10 leading rusher) to a pathetic 27 yards on 15 carries.  ASU took
    control in the first half and led 21-6 at intermission.  The Devils
    completely dominated them!
    
    UA has to be the fav for the big game.  They're nationally ranked and
    are playing at home.  I expect ASU to upset them though.  The defenses
    are both great and a scoreless tie is a big possibility.  The big
    difference is in the offenses.  UA's is a pathetic incompetent
    wishbone.  ASU has a vastly superior offense.
    
    Mike

MikeL:

What can I say? You win a few, lose a few, lose a few more, et al....

TTom

    Wail,
    You coulda been cruel and said Tie a few but ya didn't so Thankee.
    
    Notice ah don't put my prognostications in here. I'm woise than Jimbo!
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    

Actually both the BC terrible-guess and the Arizona bad-guess were
classical symptoms with my predictions. I stayed on the band wagon 1 too
many games.

TTom

    Hey hey be easy on me.  I was 5-0 last week.......I just forgot
    to put the picks in. 8*)
    
    Jimbo

    You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and then you
    have....
    

    The Droods will beat those Cats and the spread, 20-17.
    
    Mike

    Well I was off by a few points, but the Droods showed the Mildcats who
    has the best defense in the land on Saturday night, right in their own
    back yard.  ASU downed UA 7-6 and a defensive struggle.  I figured the
    defenses would score more, but offensive miscues were at a minimum.
    
    More later when I get the time...
    
    Mike

    Interesting weekend fot the best conference in America thised year.
    
    Stanford blows out Cal on the 1oth anniversary of the Band debacle
    UCLA dumps USC with a walk-on QB who looked OK ( Po' USC gets my
    Irish nexted Sat. You know they'll come out roarin. Larry Smith's
    gotta be on thhe tightrope with his loss to the UCLANS and riding
    an 0-9 losing streak vs. ND). 
    
    And the Wilcats suffer the post Huskie blues by losing two in a row.
    Saw the replay of the ASU touchdown, quite a run. How did Arizona
    score? Via the FG? If TD, did they blow the extra point?
    
    And How the Mighty Have Fallen. The Huskies get "stalingraded" in
    Pullman.  Ain't gonna vbe an interesting Rose Bowl against the
    Michigan Big Glue ( as in all tied up).
    
    MikeL
    

    The Mildcats scored 2 FG's.  They had a shot at a 57-yard game winner
    with 3 minutes left that fell inches short.  That same kick would've
    won the Miami game for them (which was only a 50-yard attempt).
    
    Mike

    Zona's gotta be kickin' (no pun intended!) themselves for the past 2
    weeks.  They got the help they needed from WSU and could be smellin'
    the roses right now...
    
    Joe

    ASU did exactly what was necessary to beat UA: stay close enough to
    give itself a chance to win with a big play.  That was Kevin
    Galbreath's (5th year senior, 4th string back) 51-yard TD run early in
    the 4th quarter.
    
    For the first time all season, the agressive ASU team had fewer
    penalites than its opponents.  ASU had 4 for 44 yards, UA had 6 for 55
    yards.  
    
    UA's Desert Swarm defense held ASU to 191 total offense, but ASU had
    112 yards rushing.  UA's rushing defense was previously only yielding 60
    yards per game.
    
    ASU Coach Bruce Snyder celebrated his first Mildcat defeat by taking
    his family to McDonalds in Tucson.  I guess those Mildcats are really
    worth anything more ;-)  He said he told the family, "We're really in
    the bigs now!"  He said, "I was anxious to see if it (the ASU-UA rivalry) 
    was as intense as everyone said it was...and it is.  It's hostile!"  He 
    only requested one thing be changed about: "It seems to me that making it 
    a day game would be something that we should think about.  I don't know 
    why it remains a night game.  It would certainly get more national 
    publicity as a day game.  I think it would behoove us to change it."
    
    Frosh QB, Grady Benton, had a 67% efficiency rating going into the
    game.  NCAA record was 70% and the Frosh record is 61% held by Bernie
    Kosar.  I'm not sure of his final stats, but I did hear he broke both
    records.  Way to go Grady!
    
    ASU still ended up at 6-5 after playing 80% of their season without
    their top 2 running backs, including the #1 rusher in the country. 
    Everyone is anticipating great things next season with Super Mario
    back.  With the toughness of their schedule and record, they really did
    deserve to go to some bowl.  Unfortunately, as Snyder said, "The
    chances of getting back to a bowl game after you've been in one are
    much greater than getting in one for the first time."  
    
    UA at 6-4-1 will most likely go to the Hancock Bowl in El Paso against
    a Southwestern Conf. opponent.  If Texas beats Texas A&M, they could
    go.  Other possibilities include Rice if they beat Sam Houston St. and
    Baylor is another possibility.  Meanwhile, ASU at 6-5, can look forward 
    to a great recruiting season now!
    
    Mike

Anywhere - USA - November 24, 1992

The United States Border Patrol, in conjunction with the FBI, CIA, AP, UPI,
UA and the Association of Bounty Hunters today issued a country wide All 
Points Bulletin to find the missing Pathetic 10 (tm) conference, which was 
last seem plummeting down the NCAA Div. 1 Football Rankings.   The Pathetic
10 (tm) was now where to be seen in the Top Ten, despite heavy media hype 
reporting them in great numbers there.   This unprecedented search has gotten
top priority from Presiden Bush, President-Elect Clinton, and a bi-partison
special committee on uncovering frauds.   If the Pathetic 10 is not found,
the President has ordered the conference to be included on milk cartons, 
junk mail folders, and posters for telephone poles.  A special hot line
has been set up at 1-800-NOT-GOOD.  All citizens with any information 
regarding this conference can call 24 hours a day in strick confidence.

    
    Yabbut where will the reward money come from?
    
    How much is it?
    
    I remain,
    not talking till I see the greenbacks!
    Kev
    

Brews -

With the plethora of  bowls, and the amount of teams with 6 or 7 wins making
them, sending teams to bowl games ain't nothing to crow about....

And IMO, Arizona with 4 losses and a tie shouldn't be ranked in the top 25, 
and if USC loses to ND this weekend, they will drop out like a lead weight -
unless the braind daid voters keep 'em in on name recognition...

JD

    Heck, the Big 11 can have teams like Iowa at 6-5 go to a bowl, but
    that's not a lot to brag about...
    Michigan, MSU, OSU, Penn State, Illinois(?), Iowa(?)
    

Mac -

Yeah, but do 6-5 teams deserve a bid, mainly because they play in a name
conference?

JD

Neither.  

JD

    JD's hatred of the PRO-10 blinds him.  As I said before, they beat each
    other up all season and still place 4 teams in the top 25.
    
    

Mike -

Is it tough, or is it overhyped so that the voters think its tough?  Stanford
beat ND, as we all know, but who has, say, Washington State beat out of
conference?  how bou Arizona?  Usc?   Washington beat Nebraska, right?

Overrated conference, that's all.  After all, if it was so tough, the voters
would know to vote them way high no matter what, right?  ;-)

JD

    
    I don't think the confeence is overhyped at all, JD. I think that it
    has several GOOD teams, just not a GREAT one. Everyone thought UDub
    was great but it's obvious they are not and possibly pollsters figured
    that the other teams ( like Arizona, Stanford), also were bordering on
    greatness, but, alas, they're not great). Lot of parity in as good,
    tough conference. The problem is no one team has been consistently
    good.
    
    Which is the real Stanford team, the one that decimated ND and USC
    or the one which went down in flames to Arizona and Washington?
    
    And UDub? Washington St? What about Arizona? A GOOD one dimensional
    football team whose offense couldn't score in a cathouse wif 50
    smackers? And ASU, whose defense is great also and finally rebounded
    from having their QB's making license plates?
    
    A tough conference with several good teams, no great ones.
    
    
     MikeL
    

The question is, MikeL - would those Pathetic 10 teams step into other
conferences and dominate?  I don't think so.  

JD

    
    Hard to say JD.  A few non-conf games are tough to judge. I'll assume
    ( and that's all were doing) that they vwould populate THIS YEAR the
    upper tier of most conferences.
    
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    

>    smackers? And ASU, whose defense is great also and finally rebounded
>    from having their QB's making license plates?
    
    That's McGee who ended up the 2nd stringer.  Grady Benton is the frosh
    that shattered the NCAA QB efficiency records.
    
    Which brings up another a_excellent point made by Bruce Snyder.  During
    preseason, ASU was criticized by all for being undisciplined and
    lacking character because of their off-field troubles.  As it turns
    out, great perseverance and discipline is what made this team so tough. 
    They could've tanked it after losing the #1 rusher in the country, then
    losing their #2 back, losing various starters on defense, not having
    All-American Eric Guliford for the first 3 games, plus the off-field
    woes.  Instead, they finished over .500, beat some excellent teams, and
    will only lose 6 seniors off this very young team.  
    
    Re: JD
    
    If the rest of the country had the filberts to play us, you would see
    more tough non-conference games.  Nother Shame(tm) has been too skeert to
    come to Arizona since 1983.  Miami and some of the other silver spoon
    schools are too skeert to risk blemishing their records.  They took in
    Arizona what they thought was the PAC's weak sister and almost had
    their heads handed to them in their backyard.
    
    Mike

Mike -

I can easily say the Pathetic 10 is too skeert to go outside the conference
to play quality opponents.  

ASU played Louisville and Pacific (wow, tough man) and Nebraska (got kilt).
(Louisville is 5-6, Pacific 3-8)

Arizona played Utah State and New Mexico State (wow, real tough) and of
course, Miami, who they shoulda, coulda, mighta, almost beat - but didn't.
Arizona of course beat the might UDUB, but somehow tied Oregon State, which
is one of the worst programs in Div 1 (1-9-1 this year).

So, out of 6 out-of-conference games, the Arizona teams played 4 cupcakes,
and went 4-0, and played two ranked teams, and went 0-2.

JD

>ASU played Louisville and Pacific (wow, tough man) and Nebraska (got kilt).
>(Louisville is 5-6, Pacific 3-8)
    
    Even Nebraska Marty said the Huskers didn't kill ASU.  Check the Big 8 
    note for proof.

    Just about the whole PAC played Pacific, including Washington, Cal, and
    the southern Cal schools.
    
    You still haven't proven the PAC isn't as great as it is.  It seems
    you're the lone voice (again) on this one.
    
    Mike

I'll reserve judgement on how great the PAC-10 is. I'll say this: for the
first half or so of the year, I would've voted for the PAC-10 as the best
conference. It seemed like the whole conference peaked the week after
Arizona's loss to Miami.

TTom

    
    > You still haven't proven the PAC isn't as great as it is.  It seems
    > you're the lone voice (again) on this one.
    
    I agree with TTom.  Until a few weeks ago the Pac-10 seemed to be
    superior based on its non-conference record and the number of generally
    strong teams.  However, since then, even though all the games have been
    in-conference, the number of strange results that have gone against the
    supposed cream of the conference have destroyed any semblance of a
    pecking order, and leave in question the strength at the top.  Sure,
    the conference is deep, but the collapse of Washington, Arizona, and
    even USC at the hands of Pac-10 opponents who *didn't* fare
    particularly well against non-con opponents has done nothing for the 
    conference's reputation.  The bowls will once again be the best test,
    but right now the Pac-10 armada has no flagship.
    
    glenn
    

Thanks Glenn.  That's my point.  The conference may be deep, but it has no
real powerhouse.  It's parity.

JD

    So does your last statement mean that you feel the Pac 10 has GOOD
    teams ( as I said good not great) JD?  I still think top to bottom
    it is the best conference this year in the country. Yup there is
    parity, but not among weak teams.
    Yo Mikey H. 
    First I heard that ND and Miami is skeered to play Pac 10 teams.
    (Arizona). Lessee, ND has an ongoing rivalry with USC, has and
    will play Stanford in the future ( home and home) and gits U Dub
    for a home and home in the mid-90's. Don't look skeered to moi.
    Where do you get your info?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    

More trouble in Washington.

Seems the athletes had a little cartel of the illegal ilk. 4 Huskies,
current and ex, have been charged with dealing cocaine from the athletic
dorm. One current linebacker who was one of 'em and has been suspended.

Other charges are surfacing including a rumor involving automatic
weapons.

TTom

Here's a team-by-team breakdown of the Pac-10.

Arizona:  6-4-1

Impressive winover Washington, and close loss to Miami.  A good win over
Stanford, Cal and UCLA.  On the flip side, they lose to USC and ASU back-to-back,
and have that inexcusable tie to a pathetic Oregon State team (I dare you or
anyone else to defend OSU)

Other wins are against Utah State, New Mexico State.

Arizona State:  6-5

Have a 24 point loss to Udub, a 21 loss to Nebraska, a 10 point loss to WSU and
a 2 point loss to WSU, coupled with a 10 point loss to the Oregon ducks.
  They have a good 20-0 whupping of UCLA and a 1 point
win over Arizona.   Their 'impressive big' wins are against Louisville, Pacific,
Oregan State and Cal.

California: 4-7

The Bears wins have been against San Jose State, Kansas, Oregon St.  and UCLA.
The have lost to Purdue and every PAC10 team but OSU.

Oregon:  6-5

The Ducks had two big wins - ASU and WSU (at UWSU).   The other 4 wins were
against Texas Tech, Nevada-Las Vegas, Cal and OSU.   They lost to Hawaii,
Stanford, USC, UDub and UCLA>

Oregon State:  1-9-1

One of the worst teams in Div. 1.  Lone win came against Fresno State.  Tied
Arizona.  Lost to Kansas and Utah out of conference (big), have been getting
whipped by everyone since, except Oregon, which beat 'em 7-0.

USC:  6-3-1

The Trojans tied San Diego State.  They beat Oklahoma (good out of conference
win, though Sooners are not the Sooners of old), Oregon, Cal, WSU, ASU,and
Arizona.  Lost to Udub, Stanford and UCLA.   Might play the toughest out-of-
conference slate in the whole conference (San Diego State, Oklahoma and Notre
Dame - my hats off to them)

Stanford: 9-3

Registered the conferences biggest out-of-conference win vs. Notre Dame.
Other wins were against WSU, Oregon, Northwesters, San Jose State, UCLA,
Oregon State, USC and Cal.  Lost to Texas A&M, UDub and Arizona.  Didn't play
ASU.

UCLA:  6-5

The Bruins beat Cal State-Fullerton, BYU and San Diego Stat, OSU, Oregon and
USC.   Lost to Arizona (by 20), WUS (by 13), Stanford (by 13), ASU (20-0) and
Cal (by 36).   

Washington: 9-2

Registered conference's 2nd big win, by beating Nebraska 29-14.  Other non
conference games were wins against Wisconsin and Pacific.  Losses to ASU by
13 and WSU by 19.  

Wash. State:  8-3

Big win vs. Washington.  Out of conference games were against Montana, Fresno 
State and Temple.  Not a very impressive threesome.  Losses to USC, Oregon
and Stanford.


There you have it.  The big conference wins were by Stanford over Notre
Dame and UDub vs. Nebraska, and if you stretch it, USC over Oklahoma (which
is 5-3-2).  No dominant team.  Given the press, one would expect one of
the conferences teams to be in the top 5, at least.   All the teams have
serious blemishes against them.  Parity has two sides:  the teams are so good
they knock each other off, or the teams aren't that good that they knock each
other off.  

That's all fact.  You can't dismiss it because I wrote it.  

JD

Mike, 

Yep, it has good teams.  I never bought into the greatest conference crap,
and felt the teams were overrated.  USC and Stanford are the only teams in
the conference with the balls to play a decent out-of-conference schedule.

TTOM -

Gee, first Billy Goat, now this.  No comment. After all, we know from Brews and
Matt and Mike H. and of course MAC that  its just me howling into the wind
alone on these things.

Funny how I end up being correct more often than not, much to the chagrin
to the the anti-JD cabal.

JD

Article: 458
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football.college,clari.sports.top
Subject: Huskies linebacker, former athletes face cocaine charges
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 92 12:58:00 PST
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- The University of Washington, shaken by a $50,000
loan that cost quarterback Billy Joe Hobert his eligibility, was rocked
further when a football player and three former athletes were arrested
Tuesday on drug-trafficking charges.
	Danianke Smith, 22, a senior linebacker from Long Beach, Calif.;
former basketball player Doug Meekins, 22, Los Angeles; former track
star Bernard Ellison and former football player James Goodwin were among
eight people arrested on charges of selling cocaine, King County
prosecutor Norm Maleng said.
	Police said officers seized nearly three-quarters of a pound of
cocaine valued at $40,000 during raids at three locations earlier in the
day.
	Maleng said some of the cocaine sales allegedly occurred in an
athletes' dormitory at the university.
	The prosecutor said the investigation began last April, when a
student at the school complained of drug sales at the athletes' dorm.
	``The student agreed to make controlled purchases of narcotics'' for
police, Maleng said. ``The student agreed to wear a recording device and
purchased 'rock' and powder cocaine.
	``The student also introduced an undercover officer to athletes. Some
transactions were videotaped. The average amount of a transaction was
$400 to $500 per sale.''
	Maleng charged Smith arranged drug deals from the athletes' dorm and
told purchasers to use his jersey number -- 55 -- as a code for buying
cocaine.
	Smith was part of the Huskies' 1991 national championship team.
Meekins was the second-leading scorer on the Washington basketball team
last season and Ellison competed in the 100 and 400 meters for the
Washington track team.
	Meekins, Ellison and Goodwin completed their college eligibility
earlier.
	Maleng said investigators determined no other current or former
athletes were involved.
	The arrests are the latest scandal to hit the Huskies football
program in recent weeks. Hobert, the Most Valuable Player of the 1992
Rose Bowl, was declared ineligible indefinitely three weeks ago after it
was disclosed he had accepted $50,000 in loans from businessman Charles
Rice of Idaho Falls, Idaho, in violation of NCAA rules.
	The Pacific-10 Conference decided not to penalize the football team
or athletic department for Hobert's actions, but left the investigation
open for further review.
	Athletic Director Barbara Hedges said Monday that in light of
Hobert's loans, the university might have to monitor activities of
athletes more closely.
	Washington cornerback Walter Bailey and reserve running back Eteka
Huckaby were suspended for a game against Oregon State Nov. 14 for
skipping classes. Safety Tommie Smith was suspended for Washington's
regular season-ending game against Washington State last week for
missing a class.
	No. 11 Washington, the Pac-10 champion, plays Big Ten Conference
champion and No. 6 Michigan Jan. 1 in the Rose Bowl. The Huskies are
attempting to become the first team to win three consecutive Rose Bowls.
	Washington finished the regular season 9-2. Michigan is 8-0-3.

    
   >> I never bought into...

      Yet another thing that the great all-knowing, all-seeing JD DID
      NOT buy into !!! When are you pathetic wretches going to forget 
      your own worthless opinions and accepts JD's word as gospel and 
      the one true way to sports SALVATION ?!?!?!? Or must you cont-
      inually be beaten about the face and neck with the WORD ?!?!? 
      Preach on, JD !!!!
  
    

>    First I heard that ND and Miami is skeered to play Pac 10 teams.
>    (Arizona). Lessee, ND has an ongoing rivalry with USC, has and
>    will play Stanford in the future ( home and home) and gits U Dub
>    for a home and home in the mid-90's. Don't look skeered to moi.

Plus don't forget that Miami and UW are playing a home-and-home in the next few
years.


Joe    
    
    

Tommy -

Maybe you were being sarcastic, maybe not, but perch and twirl.  I don't give
a rats ass whether you or anyone else agree with me.   However, when I get
shouted down, made fun of, and accused of making things up - and then they
become fact, I point it out.  You may not like it, tough crap.  I reported
about the "Dubs" athletic problems last year, only to have the all knowing
Mac and others claim I was "tilting at windmills" - now my 'made=up' stuff
is coming true.  Sorry if that upsets you or any of the others.  

I miss a commenta bout the Stanford and ND game, and hear about it for months.
I callthe Pac 10 folks on the 'strength' of the conference (and you can look
and see the smiley face in yesterday's note) and get howled out by them for
giving them a taste of their own medicine.

JD

    What's all this back patting about over the recent UW allegations, JD? 
    Some statement made years ago like "I'd be willing to bet that UW isn't
    as squeaky clean as they appear"?

Mac -

Last year the Seattle Times reported about improprieties at the Dub - esp.
with the football team - a 'what price glory' thang.  It was quashed and
silenced.  I heard other thangs, but all quiet.  When I reported it, folks
such as yourself (you did a tilting at windmills spiel) denigrated me.  Sweet
irony that my phoney stuff is coming out, no?   Or am I tilting again, your
highness?

JD

mac -
you've used 'tilting at windmills' more than once.

JD

    
    Uh-oh.  Somebody got into somebody else's corn flakes again this
    morning.
    

    >> Last year the Seattle Times reported about improprieties at the 
    >> Dub - esp. with the football team - a 'what price glory' thang.  It 
    >> was quashed and silenced.  I heard other thangs, but all quiet.  
    >> When I reported it, folks such as yourself (you did a tilting at 
    >> windmills spiel) denigrated me. 
    
       If'n the Seattle Times reported it and you heard other thangs then
       how where does the `quashing and silencing' come in ? Or do you have
       sources deep within UDub sports leaking info to you, a sort of "Deep 
       Husky Throat" if'n you will ? Or is it that it's not really such a
       big thang excepting it's ammo for you ? Seems like this is a heck of 
       alot like the Mikey not visiting the Prez deal. 
    
       BTW - The title of my last note stood for "I ASSUME SMILEY FACES ARE
             NOT NECESSARY". Guess I was wrong.

    Under the RICO laws does this mean that UW is going to be action off
    to the highest bidder?
    
    REK

    
    Tommy, please stop being so mean to jd or he'll be nice again.  8^)
    
    Brews

>    First I heard that ND and Miami is skeered to play Pac 10 teams.
>    (Arizona). 
    
    They're too skeert to come to the desert (I thought I specifically
    stated Arizona).  Didn't ND come here to play ASU in baseball in the 
    spring?  Does that mean there are football games too on the horizon?  I 
    sure hope so!
    
    Mike

    
       Brews, I ain't being mean or at least I don't think I am. I think
       I have a legitimate question. That is, if it's been in the papers
       and JD also heard it from other sources than how can he say that
       the story has been `quashed and silenced' ?
    

Tommy -

When the story hit the Times last year, the UDub administration did some
good spin control, Husky fans got mad at the paper for daring to 'ruin' teh
spirit of a great season, despite the fact that although, as I stated on
a few occassions that most of the infractions were minor, a University official
was involved, nothing came of it.   A coach/recruiter for another sport at
the Dub, who I happened to compete with while at NU, told me that their were
questionable practices going on in recruiting, at the dorms, etc., with the
football teams.   Now Tommy, I realize folks like Mac have better information
than someone who works in the university's athletic department, but I used
it anyway.  Silly me.   The infractions were dismissed with a 'boys will be
boys' type shrug.  My buddy said there would be more serious charges in the 
future, at least he felt there would be.  And there have been.

Color me crazy, color me whatever.  But I reported fact.

Mac -

The depth of your ability to not grasp joshing never ceases to amaze me.  If
you never caught on to the Bird/Jordan/stuff, then you must be made of lead.

But I'll strive to be perfect and oh so wonderful as you, your highness.

JD

    Did you see that last line in .201?  It's all your fault Tommy!
    
    Brews

    Ma buddy Heisah,
    
    Typical sun-baked desert howlin'. What's so skeery about playin' in
    the desert? Now lemmee tell ya what ma ol' college roomie from Tempe
    told me coupla eons ago; ND had been negotiating wif both ASU and UA
    for football contracts.  Now the true skinny is that me Irish would
    agree in principle to play at either school provided that they agree
    to make it a home and home. Now ASU balked straight away but I thought
    they was workin' on it with the 'Cats ( this post their solo meeting in
    the early 80's).
    Now I hope as you said that the baseball series between ND and ASU at
    Tempe might lead to a thawing in the football negotiations. But the
    real question also remains: Would the Sun Devils agree to play a
    baseball series in South Bend or would they take the Miami approach
    and cancel 'cuz they wouldn't freeze their coddled tushies off??
    
    MikeL
    

       you sure it was a home-home thing Mike? ND likes those
    home-home-away type set ups!
                                   Denny

    HAHAHA
    Good one Denny!
    Actually I think it's home-home-away-home-home
    When you gets 'em over a barrell, keep pushin'
    
    Rollward!
    MikeL
    
    

    
    It's amazing how many people in here have roommate's friend's third
    cuzin's who are in da know.   
    
    2 or 3 new ones just today
    Brews
    

Well, there is that parlor game where you can prove the "Chain Of Five".

Basically, I think the premise is that within five "I know someone who
knows someone" you can get to any famous person.....


'Saw    

    Give ya name and phone # Brewski.  Honest 8^)
    
    Tis a comptroller of a Phoenix bidness. Went to Brophy high and LOVES
    ASU. Jest tellin' it like it is, hombre.
    
    MikeL
    

Brews -

Not a roomate. Not a cousin.  But a coach at UDub.   (Not football.)

Sorry for muddling your day up with fact.

JD

>    baseball series in South Bend or would they take the Miami approach
>    and cancel 'cuz they wouldn't freeze their coddled tushies off??
    
    Which doesn't make since there are as many different states
    representated at ASU as there are in Nother Shame(tm).

>    Tis a comptroller of a Phoenix bidness. Went to Brophy high and LOVES
    
    Ah, the Brophy Prep Broncos.  St. Johns Prep of the Valley.  Non-coed,
    even have the Xaverian brothers teaching there.
    
    Our DEChoops team used to play our league games there.
    
    Mike

    >> When the story hit the Times last year, the UDub administration 
    >> did some good spin control, Husky fans got mad at the paper for 
    >> daring to 'ruin' teh spirit of a great season, despite the fact 
    >> that although, as I stated on a few occassions that most of the 
    >> infractions were minor, a University official was involved, nothing 
    >> came of it.       
       
       Still don't see where the quashing and silencing comes in. Are you
      saying that the Times squashed the story because of pressure from
      UDub ? I doubt it.  I don't know how reputable the Times is or how 
      powerful UDub is but I do know that if the Boston Globe found that 
      there was some hanky panky at say Harvard (probably the most powerful 
      academic institution in the known universe) they wouldn't be hushing it 
      up especially if it involved something so trivial as football. I think 
      a more plausible explanation is that there was no real news there.
    
    

    Jeez, try a little jab at humor.......
    
    

    
    boy, summa youse are kinda sensative.  
    
    Brews
    
    Did I ever tall ya that my insurance adjuster brother had to work a
    claim at MArk Bavaro's father's house and that Bavaro's father admitted
    that ND was afraid to go to AZ to play football?

       
   > I can grasp joshing.  Fortunately I can also identify dead horses.
    
    Been watching the Godfather too much?

    Again I repeat,
    Afraid of what??  
    
    I heard one thing, you another. You might see a few games in the future
    between ND and the Arizona schools, but not often. Why? 
    ND taint got much interest in recruiting bigtime there so you won't
    see them putting a big effort in solidifying a contract unless some
    tarantula-fearin; twit was to directly challenge dem!! 8^)'s. Unless
    of course the Irish figure an occasional appearance in the Fiesta
    Bowl might recruit a prospect or two.
    
    Now this pisses me off in another sense. ND looks to Florida for
    some recruits, so I hopem for practical purposes, that they 
    git Miami on the dotted line again. And we gots the Orange Bowl of
    course sometimes.....
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    

     >> ND looks to Florida for some recruits, so I hopem for 
     >> practical purposes, that they git Miami on the dotted line 
     >> again.
    
        ND don't want any part of Miami during the regular season and 
        not even in a bowl with anything less than a shot at the nat-
        ional championship on the line.    
    
    
    
    

    Not so sure Tommy,
    During the regular season for now, maybe, but any shot at Miami
    in a bowl would get more than passing notice. Remember, recruit-
    wise, it's a plus.
    
    MikeL
    

Article: 462
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (MARC McFARLAND)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football.college,clari.news.law.drugs
Subject: Washington coach, administrators shocked by drug arrests
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 6:52:40 PST
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- University of Washington athletic officials expressed
shock over the arrest of a football player and three former athletes on
drug-trafficking charges, but said no more arrests involving players
wereexpected.
	Danianke Smith, 22, a senior linebacker from Long Beach, Calif.;
former basketball player Doug Meekins, 22, from Los Angeles; former
sprinter and hurdler Bernard Ellison from Vallejo, Calif., and former
linebacker James Goodwin from Oakland, Calif., were among eight people
arrested Tuesday on charges of selling cocaine and marijuana,
authorities said.
	Police said officers seized nearly three-quarters of a pound of
cocaine valued at $40,000 during raids at three locations earlier in the
day.
	King County Prosecutor Maleng said some of the cocaine sales
allegedly occurred in an athletes' dormatory at the university.
Authorities also were investigating accusations that Smith arranged gun
sales.
	``We are shocked and dismayed by the events,'' athletic director
Barbara Hedges said.
	Hedges said athletic officials were told by the prosecutor's office
that no further arrests were expected.
	She said Maleng indicated ``he's satisfied they got to bottom of the
problem and no more arrests would be made.''
	Smith was charged with four counts of cocaine delivery and one count
of marijuana delivery. Coach Don James said Smith, a senior, had been
suspended from the team.
	``The use of drugs by athletes is frightening,'' James said. ``Even
more frightening is having a seller on your team.''
	No. 11 Washington completed the regular season 9-2 and will play No.
6 Michigan Jan. 1 in the Rose Bowl. Washington is attempting to become
the first team ever to win three-consecutive Rose Bowl games.
	Maleng said said the investigation began last April, when a student
at the school complained of drug sales at the athletes' dorm.
	Maleng said the student purchased drugs and turned them over to
police and also wore a tape recorder during some of the sales. The
prosecutor said the student introduced an undercover officer to
suspected drug sellers and some sales were videotaped.
	Maleng charged that Smith arranged drug deals from the athletes' dorm
and told purchasers to use his jersey number -- 55 -- as a code for buying
cocaine.
	Smith was part of the Huskies' 1991 national championship team.
	The arrests are the latest scandal to hit the Huskies football
program in recent weeks. Quarterback Billy Joe Hobert, the most valuable
player of the 1992 Rose Bowl, was declared ineligible indefinitely three
weeks ago after it was disclosed he had accepted $50,000 in loans from
businessman Charles Rice, of Idaho Falls, Idaho, in violation of NCAA
rules.
	The Pacific 10 Conference decided not to penalize the football or
athletic department for Hobert's actions, but left the investigation
open for further review.
	Washington starting cornerback Walter Bailey and reserve running back
Eteka Huckaby were suspended for a game against Oregon State Nov. 14 for
skipping classes. Starting safety Tommie Smith was suspended for
Washington's regular season-ending game against arch-rival Washington
State last week for missing a class.

    3 members named to the 2nd team offense:
    
    Eric Guliford - wide receiver (Sr)
    Bob Brasher   - tight end (Sr)
    Toby Mills    - off. line (Jr)
    
    3 members named to the 1st team defense:
    
    Shante Carver     - linebacker (Jr)
    Brett Wallerstedt - linebacker (Sr)
    Kevin Miniefield  - DB (Sr)
    
    Honorable mention:
    
    Grady Benton (QB), Adam Brass, Jerone Davison (RB), Bryan Hooks, and
    Israel Stanley (LB).
    
    UA's Dick Tomey won PAC-10 coach of the year.  Offensive Player of the
    year was Drew Bledsoe of WSU.  Bledsoe led the conference in total
    offense (247 ypg), pass completions (211), passing yards (2,770), and
    passing yards per game (251).
    
    Dave Hoffmann of the Huskies won defensive player of the year.  He led
    Washington in tackles for the 3rd straight year.  Hoffmann nailed 91
    stops and now has a career total of 292.
    
    Mike

Article: 615
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football.college
Subject: Pac-10 in booster jobs, cash probe of Washington football team
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 92 6:36:36 PST
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- A University of Washington official says the school
is taking ``very seriously'' allegations by former football players that
they received payments and other benefits from boosters during their
college playing days, in possible violation of NCAA rules.
	The Los Angeles Times reported that Washington Huskies boosters,
particularly alumni, provided money, jobs, and other benefits to
football players in the past.
	``We're taking it very, very seriously,'' James Collier, university
vice president, said Wednesday. ``It will be reviewed thoroughly.''
	The Pacific 10 Conference was investigating. David Price, Pac-10
associate commissioner, said the NCAA had not been called into the
investigation.
	The newspaper Wednesday identified two alumni, Los Angeles real
estate developer James W. Kenyon and Seattle businessman Herbert T.
Mead, as having dispensed cash and jobs to more than two-dozen former
players in the Washington football program. Both men denied the
allegations.
	Five former players told the Times they made as much as $10 an hour
doing little or no work in summer jobs as messengers, laborers and
security guards at Kenyon's Los Angeles real estate development company,
Cabot, Cabot and Forbes.
	No former player interviewed by the Times said they believed Coach
Don James was aware of such arrangements.
	The paper also reported that Washington players have sold
prescription drugs supplied by the university's trainers or medical
staff. Portions of a 1991 deposition by Husky team physician Steven T.
Bramwell indicated players would resell unused Tylenol with codeine and
other prescription drugs for profit.
	But Bramwell said Wednesday he did not know of any players who had
sold prescription drugs.
	In another highly publicized case, Huskies linebacker Danianke Smith
and three former Washington athletes were charged in recent weeks with
selling cocaine. Authorities charge they and others were involved in a
cocaine and gun-selling ring that sometimes operated about of a
university dormatory.
	Another player embroiled in controversy at Washington, quarterback
Billy Joe Hobert, has decided not to seek reinstatement with the team
and plans to pursue a pro football or baseball career. The deadline for
underclassmen to declare their eligibility for the NFL draft is Jan. 6.
	Hobert, a junior, was declared ineligible indefinitely last month
after it was determined he accepted $50,000 in loans in violation of
NCAA rules.

Article: 620
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (MARC McFARLAND)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football.college
Subject: Phone fraud probe of scandal-plagued Washington Huskies
Date: Fri, 11 Dec 92 6:13:35 PST
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- The Washington Huskies, rocked by a loan scandal that
cost quarterback Billy Joe Hobert his eligibility and charges that
former players received illegal payments and other benefits from
boosters, are being investigated for possible fraudulent telephone use.
	University athletic officials confirmed Friday the Secret Service is
investigating charges some football team members used cellular
telephones that had been altered so calls would not be charged.
	The Secret Service made ``an inquiry regarding cellular phone fraud,''
said Barbara Hedges, athletic director. She said the university was
cooperating with the investigation.
	The Secret Service said it was investigating fraudulent cellular
phone use in the Seattle area, but did not identify any suspects.
	Secret Service agents have interviewed Coach Don James and several
players about the matter, according to the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
	James reportedly confronted players and confiscated cellular phones
after being contacted by the Secret Service during the season, nearly a
year after the phones last were used.
	James was out of town and unavailable for comment.
	The Pacific-10 Conference is investigating charges by former players
that they received payments and other benefits from boosters in apparent
violation of NCAA rules.
	The Los Angeles Times reported earlier in the week that about two-
dozen former players had received cash and other benefits from boosters
and were paid for jobs in which they did not have to show up for work.
	Hobert, a junior, said this week he has decided to turn pro after he
was declared ineligible indefinitely for accepting a $50,000 loan from a
millionaire businessman in violation of NCAA rules. Underclassmen have
until Jan. 6 to make themselves available for the NFL draft.
	Hobert, the co-most valuable player of the 1992 Rose Bowl, guided the
Huskies to a 12-0 record last season and the only national football
championship in school history.
	The Huskies' 22-game winning streak dating back to 1990 was broken in
November by a loss to Arizona following disclosure that Hobert had
received the loan.
	The Pac-10 ruled the Huskies should not be penalized for Hobert's
actions, but left the matter open for a continuing investigation.
	Several Huskies players received single-game suspensions late this
season for skipping classes.
	No. 11 Washington, 9-2, meet No. 6 Michigan, 8-0-3, in the Rose Bowl
on New Year's Day. Washington is trying to become the first team ever to
win three-consecutive Rose Bowl games.

    >> You and your cabal were all over me, as usual, and were wrong, 
    >> as usual.

       Care to point out where this all took place ?
    

Tommy -

Actually, I was bad, and promised not to get involved with battles with Mac,
so I have to back off and provide no comment.

You aren't involved.

Regards,

John

    Actually, he has to back off because he can't back up his claims.

Adding insult to injury:


Billy Loan Hobert, ex-Udub QB, had his 1992 Chevy Camaro stolen early Sunday.
The car was vandalized and left the car spray-painted with the message:

"You can't afford this B.J."

     In today's Globe Mark Blaudschun, who covers college football,
    cites the PAC-10 has having the most depth in the country and the
    Big East as being the strongest at the top.
    

Article: 634
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football.college
Subject: Law firm to probe Washington Huskies allegations
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 6:06:45 PST
 
	SEATTLE (UPI) -- University of Washington athletic officials say the
school has hired a law firm to investigate allegations of NCAA rule
violations by football players.
	Michael Glazier was appointed special state assistant attorney
general to lead the investigation by the Overland Park, Kan., law firm
of Bond, Schoeneck & King, university officials said Tuesday.
	The attorneys are investigating alleged rule infractions in
connection with a $50,000 loan to quarterback Billy Joe Hobert, who was
declared ineligible after the loan was disclosed in November.
	They also are looking into allegations by some former players that
they received cash and other benefits from boosters, and that some
players used cellular telephones that had been altered to avoid
billings.
	School athletic officials said the attorneys will work in cooperation
with the Pacific 10 Conference, which also is investigating.

Article: 637
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.football.college
Subject: Husky Rose Bowl ticket sales off
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 92 14:03:11 PST
 
	SEATTLE, Wash. (UPI) -- Ticket sales at the University of Washington
for the Rose Bowl are lagging behind last year, and if the trend
continues, the university could face a hefty bill for having to make up
the difference.
	Washington was allotted 42,704 tickets for the annual New Year's Day
game in Pasadena, Calif., according to Pacific 10 Conference
Commissioner Tom Hansen. So far, about 32,000 have sold at $46 a seat.
	With only 16 shopping days left before the game, the UW has a
shortfall worth $492,000. According to the contract between the Pac 10,
the Big 10 and the Tournament of Roses, Washington would have to pick up
the tab for any unsold tickets.
	Last year and the year before, Washington sold out all its Rose Bowl
tickets. This year -- in which the defending national champion Huskies
seek an unprecedented third straight Rose Bowl victory but are
considered out of the running for repeat as national champs -- demand is
down.
	``Demand is not as great,'' said Athletic Director Barbara Hedges, in
her first season at the helm of the Husky sports program. ``Everybody
anticipated that the demand would not be as great.''
	Hedges did not comment on whether the dropoff had anything to do with
the Husky football program's tarnished image this season in the wake of
several scandals involving players.
	This week the school hired a law firm to investigate allegations of
NCAA rules violations by football players. University officials say
Michael Glazier was appointed special state assistant attorney general
to lead the investigation.

    This Husky business makes ASU's September troubles pale in comparison. 
    At least 2 infractions by a player resulted in being thrown out of ASU.
    Several Huskies have at least 3 and are still in school.
    
    Mike

I've heard rumors that Washington and Don James might possibly part
company. I think this was on Roy Firestone's talk show. He made the
rounds with several college coaches (Miami's Ericson, Lou Hotlz, etc.)
and someone mentioned it.

Any truth to it or will James weather the storm?

TTom

Maybe Billy Jo Hobart can raise the ticket money for them....

;^)

    I guess this fits here as well as anywhere.  A sister of one of the
    women on my volleyball team made Honorable Mention Academic
    All-American, as a freshman at ASU.   

    
    I guess this fits here too!
    
    My friend's ex-wife's 3rd cousin's nexted door neighbor's step-son's
    ex-paperboy's mothers former classmate's car repairman's customer
    was selected as 3rd team all-region honorable mention equipment
    manager!
    
    Ain't that somethang??????
    
    I remain,
    
    totally awed by those selections!  REALLY!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    Kev, then you'll be happy to hear that my daughter Kerrie ended up as
    the #8 scorer for Jr. College Div III in the country.  She averaged
    just over 20 pts. per game, but won't be playing in the second half as
    she is moving to Fla to establish residency.
    
    Hope you're remaining,
    
    Lee

So, given the results of the bowls, doesn't it seem evident that the Pathetic-10
was overrated this year?   2-4.   Favoured in all 4 losses.   Only Stanford covered
the spread.   Mediocre teams beating up on mediocre teams do not make a conference
'the best'.    

JD

    JD,
    
    You might wanna start making your lines in your notes shorter.  Almost
    every note you write overruns the screen in non-DECwindows notes.
    
    It might also be fair to axe you what happened to that team you earlier
    held up as one of the few standards by which you measure a truly
    successful program - Penn State.  Wow, whatta year by those boys, huh?
    Squeaked out a +.500 season.  Amazing.  
    
    As to what happpened to the Pac10 in the bowls.  Who knows?  Off games
    by a few teams is my explanation.  I couldn't believe how horrendously
    the UW defense played.  The UW's slide started when all of the ugly
    allegations about the program came to light.  Coincidence?  I doubt it.
    
    Since nobody ever held up Oregon as an example of the Pac10's strength,
    I don't think it's worth the keystrokes to discuss the Wake Forest
    game.  SoCal was only in a bowl because of name recognition, not
    because of their stellar season.  
    
    I also believe the only person who has consistently insisted that the
    Pac10 is the nation's best conference is Matt the Mariner, who
    occasionally gets a bit carried away with homerism.
    
    I said long ago that the UW was nowhere near as good as last year. 
    They won their early games because of good fortune, and a weak
    schedule.  The Arizona, WSU and Michigan games exposed their flaws,
    especially defensively.  The distractions of the off-the-field stuff
    ensured an end to their two-year reign as a top 5 team.  Next year is
    going to be even more difficult on defense.  They are losing most of
    the only decent players they have.  
    
    Pete  

    Larry Smith's a job-hunting. Childsey got his wish and John Robinson
    comes back to coach the Trojans of USC.  No.. not the John Robinson
    from Lost in Space or Zorro, but rather the guy who looks like
    Sgt. Garcia 8^).  
    I look at this as a stop-gap measure for USC to stop the bleeding and
    get some good recruiting classes. Robinson is/was a good college coach,
    even if he did follow in and benefit from McKay's footsteps, and
    should be able to lend some stability and some more wins to the 'SC
    program. He's not Bill Walsh calibre ( sorry 'SC, Robinson's pro
    coaching career was average) and won't catapult the program to the top,
    but should shore things up. Look for 'SC to "ease" Johnny out in a
    couple after he accomplishes the task. IMO, they need a more dynamic
    younger leader ( wahat's wrong with Mike Garrett?) to vault them into
    the top echelon again. JohnnyRob will turn the course in the right
    direction.
    
    MikeL
    

    
    Anybody catch that little tantrum that Don James threw at an ESPN
    interviewer last week?  That kind of thing isn't going to help your
    cause as one of the patriarchs of the college coaching ranks, Don, or
    with the current situation with the Huskies.  Basically the interviewer 
    asked James if he was concerned that UW's president acknowledged
    problems with the program and James took it as an attempt to pit him
    against the prez, responding with a profanity-laced lecture that
    would have made Bob Knight blush.  I think James is stressed and on the
    edge...
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn,
    
    I didn't see that, but I wish I had.  It's very uncharcteristic of
    James, who is normally very stoic and controlled (aka "dull") in 
    public.  
    
    I'm sure all of the allegations are getting to him.  I think he really
    feels that he's run a clean program, and now everything's crumbling
    around him through no fault of his own.
    
    If I remember correctly, of the approx. 4 ex-players who made
    allegations of wrongdoing by boosters, 3 were involved in litigation
    with the UW and the fourth said he was misquoted in the article in
    the LA Times.  If, in fact, the charges were made-up or exaggerated,
    I can sort of understand James snapping like that.  
    
    I don't think Don will walk.  I think he wants to get the program back
    on its feet.  Being a Husky fan, these last two years have been an
    incredible ride from the top to the bottom.
    
    Pete

    Using JD's logic [sic], the SEC must be the best conference since they had
    the best bowl record as a conference.
    
    With Robinson returning to the University of Spoiled Children, a tough
    PAC-10 just became tougher.
    
    Rumor has it that Bledsoe will skip his senior year and enter the NFL
    draft.
    
    Mike

    Bledsoe announced that he will forego his last season Washington St.
    and enter the NFL draft. Tomorrow the NFL and the players meet with
    Judge Doty.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    
    how cuz there seems to be more notes but it says no new notes when I
    puch nu key?  For example, the top bar sez 247 of 249, but does a "no
    more notes" thingy and if I type 248 or 249 it takes me to 247.
    
    Brews

>    how cuz there seems to be more notes but it says no new notes when I
>    puch nu key?  For example, the top bar sez 247 of 249, but does a "no
>    more notes" thingy and if I type 248 or 249 it takes me to 247.
    
See 1.last.


We have been experiencing some disk space problems here.  That's why
we're gonna archive.

In the meantime, it seems that Notes will update the reply count, then
try to add the reply.  If it cannot add the reply, it does not go
back and decrement the reply count......   


hth,
'Saw

Mike -

I'm quite certain if the Pathetic-10 had gone 4-1, you would have
strutted yer chest about it.   

Admit it, for all the hype and best conference in da land crap, they
fell on there face.   They were upset in all four losses (could be
a conference choke).

As I stated before the bowl games, the Pathetic 10 had 2 games to be
proud of - Stanford's beating of ND, and near upset of Miami.   I called
Stanford the best team - they at least aren't afraid of a quality schedule,
and that was borne out.

The rest were mediocre teams beating on each other.

JD

    Arizona and Oregon statistically dominated everything in their bowls
    but the final score.  The Rose Bowl was a great game, even if the refs
    gave the Huskies a TD (the one in the first half where the receiver
    dropped the ball before crossing the goal line).
    
    BTW - how many ranked teams did the SEC have in the top 25?

    	Hey Mike, if we could've used "statistical domination" in the
    late 70's in the NFL, the Patriots could have one or two NFL
    Championships.
    
    				/Don