Conference 7.286::sports_91

    L.A. Raiders (9-7) @ K.C. Chiefs (10-6)
    
    N.Y. Jets (8-8) @ Houston Oilers (11-5)
    
    Denver (12-4) first-round bye
    
    Buffalo (13-3) first-round bye
    

      If Houston loses,  then Denver plays the KC/LA winner.  Denver plays
    Houston if the oilers win.
    
      I would like to see Denver play Houston,  'cause if Denver is worthy
    of going to the AFC finally,  then they should have to beat a team that
    destroyed them earlier this year.
    
    	Tim

    Soilers over da Jesters
    
    Faids over da Chiefs
    

    I was kinda sad to see Dan Marino, maybe the game's best player, taken
    out a the AFC playoffs by a bunch a lucky nobodies like the Jests. 
    
    Nobody said life would be fair, but I feel cheated having to watch dumb
    bunny O'Brien instead a Dan-the-Human Rocket Launcher.
    
    Big question to axe is: Cain Big John overcome all odds (as he has so
    many times before) and win in Buffalo and take his squad to yet ANOTHER
    Supe?  [I think so]
    
    MrT

    	MorT, you feel bad for the 8-8 Dolphins but not bad for the
    10-6 49ers and Eagles?
                                                         
    				/Don

The 8-8 Dolphins that had TWO (count em 2) chances to advance into the playoffs.
Only to let San Diego score mucho 4th quarter points and then let the Jests
beat them head to head....

The fish blew it...

THe Donks are so used to blowing it they might as well mail the super bowl to 
the NFS if they manage to make it to the big game....

It would be fitting to have the donks lose a record 5th time in Minnesota, home
of the choking Vikings.....


Metz

    
    Chiefs over the Raiders  10 - 6  looked like a pre-season game very
    sloppy.
    
    Oilers over the Jets 17 - 10.
    
    Saturday  4 pm EST start  Denver vs Houston
    Sunday    1 pm EST start  Buffalo vs Kansas City
    
    \pjb

    BTW: A TV station in Houston bought up 2,000+ unsold Atrodome seats so
    that they could televise yesterday's game (i.e., not have to go
    blackout under NFL policy).
    
    	--dan'l

    Las Vegas say's Bronco's over Oilers by 3, add 4 more if it snows.
         Pray for snow!!!!!!!!
    
    And please, no responses about Cleveland and their slush.
    Moon has to face the outdoors, on the real McCoy, and worry about
    Okoye's nightmare Atwater.
    Houston get's homesick easily.

       Elway is ready,  and if continues to call the plays,  then look for
    a Denver 7-10 point victory margin!
    
      Buffalo will chew the chiefs and spit them home.
    
    	Tim

    Mr. Moderators, don't we already have an NFL topic?????
    
    Shouldn't this be shut down?????
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    
    Yeah, but the AFC still don't belong in the NFL, Pitts. being the
    exception
    
    

    
    Buffalo hanky Chiefs.  Revenge!
    
    Donks shoot Moon and Soilers
    
    
    MikeL
    

      What MikeL,  don't you thin the Broncos can give the spills a decent
    game?   I do.  Buffalos defense is ??????able, and Denver has a good
    defense this year.  Buffalo has a hi powered offense,  and denvers is
    ????able.  Could make an interesting,  especially if it comes to a FG.
    
    	Tim

    My yawn was not intended to imply a lopsided game, as I think the Donks
    have a good chance to win in Buffalo. I dunno, I hate Denver's offense
    (all we hear is Elway this, Elway that, kinda like Big Game 8^)), and
    we'll hear about Kelly and Thomas Blab, blab blab. Doens't seem to
    have the excitement of the NFC potential matchups, thus my yawn.
    But if the Donks can beat Houston, they have a decent shot of making
    it to da Big Time ( oh no, not again!! 8^))
    
    MikeL
    

      If the donks do go to the SB (which I don't think they will),  then
    they will win this time.  To many bad times for Elway during his other
    3 losses,  and he will redeem himself one day.
    
    	Tim

    
    Go DONKS... wut a team.  I've been a fan four as long as I cain
    bemeber.  I sure hope dey dump all over da Huston Oilers dis weekend!
    
    DONKS DONKS DONKS!

    
    	I hope so too Ice.  Hey, is that you who left the brown stain
    	on this here Donk bandwagon?  Get off now! ;^)
    
    	Claybroon

    Groaner's pulling for the bad guys...!? ....Sheesh, what would Bernie
    say?
    
    Carlos

>    Groaner's pulling for the bad guys...!? 
    
    How can he be pulling for the Faids? - they're on the golf course.
    
    
    Joe
                                        

    
    Just a couple of picks: (everyone listen up now!)

           Houston over Denver.............Buffalo over Kansas City

                                                   Night Flier   ~~v~~

           

    
    Announcers:        That Moon!  What a man, what a citizen, what a
                       millionaire, what friend to animals, what a qb, 
                       what an idol, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah...
         
    Elway, 2:07 left:  Remember me?

    re: .24
    
    I was watching the game at my mother-in-law's house with my 9 year old
    daughter, and my little girl asked me why the announcer (Todd
    Christensen) hated the Broncos. I'm not a Broncos fan (and neither is
    my daughter).
    
    Christensen was so obvious and blatant in his one sided coverage that I
    wished I was at my house, so I could turn on the radio (although that
    was Jack Buck  :*(. One of the nice things about listening to the game
    on TV was listening to Todd at the end of the game talking about how
    Houston really showed everyone. I guess NBC diodn't tell him the score
    of the game.
    
    Dennis
    

    
    Bidness as usual.  Oilers take a 21-6 lead in the first quarter
    and then Moon and Co go to sleep.  CHOKING away a lead late in
    the game.  Of course, Moon had a chance to win the game at the
    end, but as usual, showed his inability to move his team late in
    the game.  Their use of the clock on their second to last drive
    was pathetic (and enjoyable to me!)  Moon on the last drive CHOKED - 
    can't drive his team down the field under pressure.
    
    This year - Browns 0  Oilers 0!

I'm not a Denver fan, as many in here can tell you, but I sure do
have to take my hat off to John Elway.

Elway proved to the world on Saturday that Warren Moon ain't got what
it takes.

I don't like Denver, but I like Houston less.


Congrats Bronco fans - enjoy yourselves today, because your team earned it!


'Saw

    That sure was a great win by Denver...I mean Elway. The guy has a great
    feel for the game when it's on the line.

    The only thing is that Denver fans must be starting to get that sickly
    feeling in the pit of their stomach as the Broncos draw closer and
    closer to another possible Superbowl.

    Take heart though Denver fans I don't think they will get by Buffalo
    this upcoming weekend!

                                                   Night Flier   ~~v~~

    What a finish. OK OK Big Game, ELWAY IS GOD!  The main is the main!
    And despite other replies in here, I give Moon credit. He played
    very well, on the road and in hostile environment. If not for that
    penalty, he might have led Houston to a field goal ,forcing Denver
    to go for the TD. And Elway probably would have led the Donks to a TD
    anyway. 
    So let's give credit, both QB's played well, and the more clutch of the
    two took it in the end. Congrats, Bronco fans, you deserved it
    
    MikeL
    

                                
    Great, great game.  Another classic in Mile High.  Both teams and QBs 
    played very well.  If anyone "choked", it was the Oilers' defense in 
    giving up the huge 45-yard back-breaking play when Elway was only 
    looking for a first down on 4th-and-ten on that last drive.  Also, 
    Jack Pardee wins similar honors for inexplicably calling a timeout 
    right before that play.  Hey, Jack, it's the offense that holds the 
    complexities that might demand some time to set up a play in that 
    situation.  If your defense can't handle that situation in the waning 
    minutes of a ball game, you're lost, bud.  And while all the attention 
    was focused on Treadwell for missing that extra point early, it was
    actually Al Del Greco's miss of a field goal from extra-point range
    that proved most damaging to the Oilers.
    
    Elway did it when he had too.  I honestly didn't think he'd pull this 
    one out because he really did have a rotten third quarter, squandering 
    those first two long drives that he needed to get his team back in it, 
    with an interception and a near-interception, coming away with only
    three points.  But the fourth quarter was all Mr. Elway's again...
    
    > Of course, Moon had a chance to win the game at the
    > end, but as usual, showed his inability to move his team late in
    > the game.  Their use of the clock on their second to last drive
    > was pathetic (and enjoyable to me!)  Moon on the last drive CHOKED - 
    > can't drive his team down the field under pressure.
      
    Typical ridiculous, blind, missed-a-good-game "objectivity" that only
    SPORTS can deliver.  Houston actually did a fine job on their 
    next-to-last drive, running nearly four minutes off the clock and
    burning Denver's remaining timeouts in driving some fifty yards before 
    pinning the Broncos at the two with a great punt.  Except for one long 
    incompletion on second down from the Bronco thirty, the Oilers weren't 
    conservative yet kept the ball in play and the clock running.  They 
    were killed by two penalties at the end of the drive, which did stop 
    the clock twice but which did not increment the down, a fact apparently 
    lost on the incoherent Todd Christenson in his analysis of the Oilers' 
    clock management on the drive.
    
    The last drive?  Twenty seconds left?  Let's be real...
    
    This will probably be the finest game of this playoff season, a game
    marred (for me) only by the grotesque display of Denver's Stepford fans
    chanting "Bulls***!  Bulls***!" and booing the replay of one of the
    cheapest, dirtiest plays you'll ever want to see while the injured
    player was still lying motionless on the sideline with god-knows-what
    kind of a neck injury at the time...
    
    glenn
     
             

    Glenn,
    I agree that Denver's DB delivered a cheapshot on the Houston WR,
    Givens. I must confess though, that I was waitin' for someone to pop
    him 'cuz he had been sh*ttin on Elway along with another Houston WR
    after an Elway incompletion. In contrast, the same camera shot showed a
    stoic Moon looking at Elway as his two two teammates lambasted Elway.
    Moon was/is the epitome of class ,IMO. Cheapshot on Givens,yup, and
    I'm glad he's ok, but Elway got the last laugh on him.
    
    MikeL
    

    Saved by the fake injury.  Denver lost ten seconds, but at 4th and 10,
    no time outs and under 2:00 to play it won them the game.
    
    The injury looked like a career ender, and (I think) then (Jackson?)
    came back into the game.
    
    Elway is captain_comeback.  To say Moon choked is too much for even
    this conference, any team in the NFL would take the day he had.
    period.
    
    Chip_GSH_Bach

    
    No doubt, Givens is a loudmouth and I'm glad Elway ended up shutting 
    him up (with Atlanta, Houston, and then Dallas, that was pretty much 
    the theme of the weekend, wasn't it?  Gotta like that).  I hadn't 
    even thought about the fact that he was also the one with the lip; it 
    just turned my stomach a bit to see fans behaving like that when 
    *anyone* is potentially hurt that badly.  And it's something you'll 
    see anywhere in the league, too, unfortunately... 
    
    I'll admit to some frustration in reading the typical "Moon choked",
    "Moon doesn't have what it takes" stuff after his effort in such a
    great game.  I thought that just for once that junk might be avoided 
    because I assumed that anyone who actually saw the game could not 
    possibly come to that conclusion.  Hey, sometimes a fine individual 
    game performance is not rewarded with a win because the guys on the
    other side are just a little bit better... that's what makes sports
    great from time to time.  The other three games this weekend certainly
    weren't.
    
    glenn
     

    
    glenn,
    
    	The fans were chanting "bull$hit" because they didn't agree
    	with the call.  How do you take their chant with equalling
    	being happy loudmouth, I mean Givens, being hurt?  They were
    	wrong BTW.  It was a cheapshot and the flag was warranted.
    	However, maybe if Givens hadn't been taunting Elway, Dimry
    	would have never planted him.  Who knows......  I'm glad he
    	wasn't seriously hurt.  I was glad he was shut up though.
    
    	It was Michael Young who was hurt with 1:3? to play.  He
    	didn't return to the game.
    
    	The announcers were saying it was a bad snap on the missed
    	extra point.  There was nothing wrong with the snap.  Kubiak
    	muffed it.  He redeemed himself on the game winning field goal
    	though.  THAT was a bad snap and he got it down.
    
    	Denver has played Buffalo tough at Buffalo the last few years.
    	However, that was in the regular season.  The Bills have really
    	turned it up a notch and I really don't think Denver has much
    	of a chance.  I'll root like hell for 'em though.
    
    	Claybroon

      I guess I will be the first Bronco Fan to say,  "Its hell being one,
    at times".  Elway proved why he is a winner!  I must admit that it
    wasn't looking good with 2 4th & 10's in the last drive.  Vance came
    into his old form this and the last 5 weekends!
    
      The 1st half was dismal for the Bronco defense.  In a way it didn't
    suprise me,  and the 2nd half was no different.  Wade Phillips has a
    way of making adjustments,  and he did what he could.  I knew they
    couldn't stop the oilers offense,  but I thought they could contain
    them better.  The only person that was rushing the Moon hard on every
    play was Kragen.  At times it looked like the others were just kinda
    dancing or standing talking with the oiler OL.  NO SACKS....
    
      The game stats were fairly close.  Both offenses played very well.
    
      Dishman is a bad loser!  He said the better team didn't win.  I must
    say that is wrong, 'cause if his team was better,  they would have won. 
    Moon looked P.O'd.  Oiler defense let him down.  Makes me feel bad
    about it;^!
    
      The cheap shot by Dimry was just that.  When he picked up Givens,
    Givens' feet were just on the line,  but he didn't have to pick him up
    & drop him on his head.  I didn't feel to bad about it.  Maybe Dimry
    saw Givens mouthing at the wrong time!   There was a cheap shot on
    Elway when he slid on a run,  but it wasn't called.  Christianson said
    that Elway normally doesn't slide and thats why he got hit after he
    already was on the ground.  Todd,  your true black & silver bias
    showed badly!  NBC should can him,  and Walsh!
    
      Nightflier (i think) said that we donk fans must be getting that
    feeling in our stomachs,  and you are right in my case.  I don't think
    that the Broncos will get past the Bills...  Just as long as they play
    them better than KC did yesterday and LA did last year.
    
      If the Broncos do win next week,  then somebody better tell Reeves
    how to sike his team up for the big dance!
    
           Tim

    Glenn -
    
    I agree with one thing you alluded to - Jack Pardee totally choked as a
    coach down the stretch.  His  calling a timeout was assnine.  I
    couldn't believe it.  Could almost feel Elway breath a sign of relief.
    
    I do disagree with you about hte last drive.  Yes, they ate up time -
    but they also went to the pass (incomplete stops clock - STUPID), and
    they also ran out of bounds.   They ate up the clock until they had
    2:54 left - and a first down.  And then totally blew it.
    
    One of the worst down-the-stretch coaching jobs I've ever witnessed. 
    Jack looked totally befuddled.  
    
    It was, IMO, a typical run-and-shoot blow the lead game.  Why didn't
    they keep it on the ground?  They averaged 5.1 a carry - and White was
    rushing well in taht drive.  He got stuffed by Meck, and it seemed like
    the Oilers got nervous.  
    
    One thing about the game, all the scoring drives were long ones.  
    
    The defensive back for the Oilers really blew it on the 4th down.  Even
    if Elway does get the 10 yards, it eats up more time.  Instead, he
    leaves the receiver wide open.  
    
    Didn't Pardee call TWO timeouts during Denver's drive?  I thought he
    did.  But that timeout was a monumental mistake.  Why not try a blitz
    and chuck the receivers?  They needed 10 yards!
    
    Del Greco's miss was huge.
    
    But I have the feeling it wouldn't have made a difference.  Denver
    wouldn't have scored a TD.
    
    JD

>    Didn't Pardee call TWO timeouts during Denver's drive?  
    
    They called one right before the field goal.
    
    	--dan'l

    
      >	The fans were chanting "bull$hit" because they didn't agree
      >	with the call.  How do you take their chant with equalling
      >	being happy loudmouth, I mean Givens, being hurt?
    
    I don't.  I equate it with them being utterly and completely blinded by
    their own devotion to the team, to the point where they'd boo the call
    on a play clearly designed to injure that did indeed leave the man 
    down and out.
    
    Someone step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but on Houston's last
    real drive I'm pretty sure that the only incompletion was the long pass 
    on second down (which was pretty dumb considering the coverage and the
    fact that the game plan was working to perfection) and no one ran out 
    of bounds on any play.  Maybe there was one other stop-clocking play 
    (the penalties don't count, they don't hurt your ability to run clock
    as the down is retained), but all-in-all the drive was much more
    efficient than falling on the ball three times like a lot of teams do
    or even making maybe one or two first downs.  They drove 50 yards and
    picked up a handful of clock-running first downs before the drive
    stalled.  Or at least that's what I remember...
    
    glenn
    

    Glenn,
    
    Id on't recall the whole last drive - but I do remember that Houston
    was running the ball effectively for a few first downs.  Then, with
    2:54 left, Meck stuffed White.  then the long pass (Stupid call), then
    on third down, an incomplete pass, right?  Then the punt.   Perhaps I
    got confused with the penalty.   
    
    I still think they did okay, and then blew it.  
    
    But it was a great game.
    
    Houston could sure use a big receiver (size-wise).
    
    JD

      Remember on Houstons last drive,  Denver used 2 timeouts?
    
      Isn't Jeffries 6'2"??  He is oilers biggest.
    
      Great game,  and the missed FG wasn't that major,  or anymore major
    than the missed extra point.
    
      Did I miss something JD?  Skins lose to donks?  I would luv to see
    it,  but its unlikely.
    
    	Tim

       Pardee called timeout before the Donks last 4th down too. This was a
    huge mistake. I think Denver had a great comeback, but the soilers
    helped them out with some bonehaid moves.
                                       Denny

>      Did I miss something JD?  Skins lose to donks?  I would luv to see
    
       JD's just covering himself. He was the first one to tell us that
    the winner of the SB wouldn't be Wash. or Buff.
                                     Denny 

    
>    I do disagree with you about hte last drive.  Yes, they ate up time -
>    but they also went to the pass (incomplete stops clock - STUPID), and
>    they also ran out of bounds.   They ate up the clock until they had
>    2:54 left - and a first down.  And then totally blew it.
   
    Like Glenn said, I also don't recall anyone going out of bounds.  The
    last series by Houston was something like:
    
    1st and 10 - stuff by Meck, Denver call TO
    2nd and 11 or 12 - incompletion to end zone.
    3rd and 11 or 12 - Didn't Houston have a procedure penalty here?
    3rd and long - Houston completed a pass to about the 33 on 3rd down but
    there was a holding penalty on Houston, this part I'm sure of.  On the
    radio they were saying Denver should just decline the penalty but
    Houston probably would've tried a 50-yard FG.  Denver took the penalty
    and set up something like 4th and 26 and Houston just ran the ball and
    Denver used their last TO.
    
    I think Houston did a great job on that last drive moving the ball and
    using up clock.  They got the ball with around 7 minutes left and the
    next thing you know it's down around 3 minutes.  But after the stuff by
    Meck I would've gone with 2 more line smashes - even if Houston doesn't
    pick up the first or get into FG range, they probably at least run the
    clock to the 2-minute warning.  
    
    Only 1 game went the way I wanted it to this weekend, but at least it
    was the most important one.
    
    
    Joe 

    The pressure was on, the drama almost too much to bear, the clock
    running out, and the clutch was down...
    
    and Big John delivered.  Have a nice vacation Toilers!  Big John
    delivered.  Big Bad John.
    
    MrT

    First, let me go on record as saying Elway is one of the best at
    come-from-behind victories.
    
    Anyone who thinks Moon choked obviously wasn't watching the game
    (Groaner, ya listening?).  Moon wasn't on the field when Houston had
    Denver pinned on the 2 with 2+ remaining on the clock.
    
    Mark.

    Hey, maybe Worn didn't choke, but after a huge first half he only
    passed for, what?, 103 yards in the 2nd half.  Now, say what you
    will about how you'd take 103 yards in a half, but keep in mind that
    total completions/passing yards etc. are dastistickal (tm) in nature
    when it comes to the run n' shoot offense.
    
    Wade made his adjustments at halftime and they worked.  It suddenly
    took much more accurate passing to move the team in the 2nd half 
    cuz the Bronco defenders had somehow put it together to where they 
    were hounding the receivers.  No more easy pickings for Worn.  It was
    now time for Worn to prove his stuff and do a Joe Montana virtuoso
    performance with the audibles and check-offs and needle-threading and
    scrambles.  
    
    Instead, he got dog-walked and bitch-slapped in the 2nd half.  Half.
    That's it.  Let's call him Worn Half Moon!
    
    Haa.
    
    MrT

    Re: -1
    
    I believe what you said was true. I thought Houston did a good job
    keeping the clock running while passing. I was wondering whether they
    would run or pass to control the clock. The penalties are what killed
    their drive.
    
    Regarding the fans and Dimry dumping Givens. When Dimry tackled him he
    was in bounds. Dumping him on his head out of bounds was dumb and
    deserved the flag. I don't believe the fans booing had anything to do
    with hoping Givens was hurt, but they were reacting more to the
    "non-call" when Elway got drilled on the ground. To them the two plays
    should have been called the same. Overall, I thought both teams played
    a good game. Houston has nothing to be ashamed of.
    
    My $.02
    
    BUDMAN
    

    Didn't Jeffries drop a td?

    Yes DD.  Ain't it great?!

    >Didn't Jeffries drop a td?
    
    Well, if you were buying what the "incoherent Todd Christensen"
    was saying, yes.  But the replay showed that the pass was behind
    him just enough to allow the DB to go around Jeffries back and
    grab his elbow, thus causing the non-catch.
    
    In other words, if Worn Half Moon had led Jeffries further to the
    right he woulda caught the game-winning TD unmolested by the DB.
    
    MrT

Yawn, Ho hum...  


2:07 left in the game I left the party for a Bike ride home through the 
Garden of the Gods. About 10 minutes into the ride the bright orange clouds 
seemed to get just a little bit brighter.

Way to go John I said to myself. 

    Has the NFL banned all physcial contact between defenders and
    receivers?!  News to me.  Last time I heard once the ball arrives
    the defender cain do anything he wants short a a personal foul,
    and the referees, receiver, other Toilers, and commentators all
    agreed that the elbow got grabbed right on time.
    
    Whatever the case, Worn Half Moon failed to lead Jeffries adequately
    on what woulda been the game winner.  He just wasn't that sharp in
    that Half, when the clutch was down...
    
    MrT 

    Joe -
    
    Thanks - I think I got one of the penalties mixed up with a timeout.
    
    Still, I thought they should have just ran the ball on 2nd down to eat
    time.  The bomb was stupid - Pardee must have thought it was a Houston
    Couger vs. Little Sisters of the Poor game.
    
    Houston has had 5 years of playoff failures.  How much longer til they
    either advance to the enchilada - or do a fade?
    
    JD

    Mac,
    That pass to Jeffries was just in his hands( yea behind him, not
    an accurate throw by Moon), when the DB made a good play, yanked his
    arm and the ball dropped. 
    
    MikeL
    

    
    If Moon wasn't that sharp in the half, MrT, what was Elway?  Until the
    clutch drive, I thought he was having a very average game.  The first two
    drives of the second half, when it looked like the wheels were going to 
    come off on Houston, Elway managed to snatch away the momentum with a 
    couple of poor decisions.
    
    It all comes down once again to discipline in defending Elway.  Houston
    wasn't disciplined, and matter of fact was downright stupid on defense, 
    and Elway burned them for it.  Forty-five yards on a dump pass?
    
    I still haven't seen anything yet that shows me in spite of the 
    (sometimes unnecessary) heroics that Elway's going to perform well 
    against a top-level defense that contains him and makes him throw the 
    ball.  After all the fourth-quarter comebacks and fourth-down
    conversions don't you guys get just a little bit suspicious about what
    happened the rest of the game?  Efficiency in the first three quarters
    might make things just a little bit easier, with increased consistency
    the key to championship-caliber play. 
    
    I guess we'll see once again...
    
    glenn
    
      
                      

    If you wanna look at whole-game results, please note that John's
    Broncos (who are classy winners) outscored the Toilers.  Each team
    blew easy FGs.  The Toiler QB looked maybe a little Worn out to
    me, cuz he more inaccurate down the stretch.
    
    Also look at two other facks with your "efficiency" thing: 1) John
    was being chased and Worn Half Moon wasn't, and, 2) the Broncos seemed
    more committed to the running game until comeback time, until the 
    clutch was down, until it was time to summon the not inconsiderable
    talents a... Big John.  
    
    Big Bad John.
    
    MrT

    
    	If you think about it, that huge 4th and 10 play was set up by
    	the 4th and 6 play earlier (not on purpose though).  Elway 
    	scrambled for the 1st down on 4th and 6.  The DB (on the same
    	side BTW) decided to come up and greet him on the 4th and 10.
    	Poor judgement?  In hindsight yes.  But, if he would have stopped
    	him short.........
    
    	Claybroon

>    	If you think about it, that huge 4th and 10 play was set up by
>    	the 4th and 6 play earlier (not on purpose though).  Elway 
>    	scrambled for the 1st down on 4th and 6.  The DB (on the same
>    	side BTW) decided to come up and greet him on the 4th and 10.
>    	Poor judgement?  In hindsight yes.  But, if he would have stopped
>    	him short.........
    
On the replay, both plays had the same "look".  I'm sure the DB
was CONVINCED that Elway was gonna run....


Saw

      That was a great sunset Jeff.   Orange and blue skies,  with the (at
    the time) purple mountains sittin' preatty.  I glanced out the window
    during the last timeout by houston, before the game winner.  The only
    part that I can't see from my house is Garden of the Gods.
    
      Just to think I went to the Liquor store at 1/2 time to get more
    brewskies, 'cause with the way the 1st half went,  I figured I would
    have  to drown my sorrows.  Man did I get buzzed.
    
    	Mugs away,
    
    		Tim

	Yeah MorT, Warren should've came in and kicked that field goal, 
instead of letting the kicker blow it, and he should've thrown the perfect 
pass to Jeffries instead of just a very good pass, and he should've played 
in the defensive line (maybe he would've got a holding call), and put more 
pressure on Elway.  No doubt about it Warren blew the game big time!  I 
figure next Monday around this time you'll be conspicuous by your absence, 
and the Broncos (classy winners they) will have another excellent loss to 
add to the collection.

				/Don

>               -< Denver is 4-0 in conference championship games >-

    Probably the most meaningless stat we'll read about this week.
    
> 2:07 left in the game I left the party for a Bike ride home through the 
> Garden of the Gods. 

    Riggen, shame on you!  Leaving early??  You're probably one of those
    guys who only watches the last 5 minutes of a basketball game.
    
>    After all the fourth-quarter comebacks and fourth-down
>    conversions don't you guys get just a little bit suspicious about what
>    happened the rest of the game?  Efficiency in the first three quarters
>    might make things just a little bit easier, with increased consistency
>    the key to championship-caliber play. 
    
    Glenn, the Denver offense actually looked as good as it has since the
    opener against Cincinnati.  And like I mentioned before, this is only
    the 3rd time since that Cincy game that the offense has put up 3 TD's.
    Granted, up until that final drive Elway was only having a 
    slighter-better-than-average game and threw a key pick early in the 3rd
    quarter that was totally his fault.  But if the Denver offense played
    like they've typically been playing this season then Denver joins the
    Raiders on the golf course this morning.
    
    
    Joe

    >Yeah MorT [sic], Warren should've came in [sic] and kicked that 
    >field goal instead of letting the kicker blow my mind I have 
    >lost all capacity to reason help me I aim calling out for help
    >rattling cups in airports my poor parents would be so ashamed if
    >they could see me sad-sack cultist-irrationalist Hairy-Smithna
    >do you find me as disgusting as I find myself.
    
    Yes.  And so would Big John if he could only see you the way you
    are.  Big Bad John.
    
    >blaa-aaah blaah and the Broncos (classy winners they)
    
    Hey buddy, wasn't it Dishman who was dishing out the bull-dung about
    how even though they got beat it didn't prove anything and that the
    Toilers were steal better?  You wouldn't hear any crap like THAT from
    the Broncos (these are classy winners!).
    
    >blaaa-aaaah blah blab blab blab blub will have another excellent loss
    >to add to the collection.
    
    Given that you are a self-proclaimed Dean Smif' fan, Rasher, I take it
    this last comment was meant as a compliment.
    
    MrT

Where's that staunch and staid Erlers supporter, Dr M-M-M-Midnight today?

Hello Doc?  Doc?


Il n'est pas ici, n'est-ce pas?  C'est dommage!


'Saw

>              -< Il est malheureuse et pathetique.  C'est drole! >-

Oui, tres tres drole!


heh, heh, heh...


Yep, the Erlers bite the bag and step out the door again...


'Saw
    

    Funniest part about Midnight's "malhueurese, pathetique, et tres
    tres drole" disappearing act is that he's quite prone to flapping
    his jaw and wagging his forked tongue about *other* folk being
    WardleVanes.  HAa.
    
    MrT

    
     Well,
    
     I gotta take a break from a very busy day (I hate vacations) to add
    a few notes to this conference about the Donks and their uncanny
    ability to pull of the impossible.  The Donks defense played a piss
    poor game but the team managed to hold on and give themselves and
    opportunity to pull it out in the end.  I know there are many who
    say this win was pure luck and that the better team did not win.
    To this I say NO!!!  There comes a time when incredible wins like the
    one the donks gave us last weekend are not luck.  Elway has proven
    again and again that he is the master of come from behind wins.  The
    fact that his team mates truly believe that he can and will win the
    game for/with them is a factor that seems to be one of the keys to
    this kind of victory.  Yes,  the Donks didn't play as well as they
    can and yes,  it took a mile high miricle to win this game but the
    fact is that they won and thats all that matters,  just ask Waren Moon
    about that.   Elway is one of the Greatest to ever play the game
    and he will be in the HOF, SB victory or not.  
    
    
    What an incredible and exciting game...  This is what football is all
    about !!!
    
    
    BIG GAME !!!
    

    Doc's out on vacation today, although the message he left me sounded
    psuedo-suicidal...
    

    
    	opStay all of isThay oreignFay anguageLay ouYa eenieWays!
    
    	ayBroonClay  :*)ay

    
    >>	ayBroonClay  :*)ay
                     ^^^^^
    
    Hey you out there in DonkLand,  shouldn't that smiley be *):ay, to keep
    with proper pig latin( or is it Clevescum speak????)
    
    JaKe
    

 T, you point to Moon's only having 103 yards in the second half as if he
 failed yet the circumstances of the game led to more running by the Oilers
 in the second half and also the Donks did a much better job of controlling
 the clock in the second half.

 Actually the bomb to Jeffries on second down would have been a great call
 had the DB not intenional ran into Jeffries. This used to be pass interference
 but these days alls you have to do is look back for the ball to get away with
 it. What goes around comes around. Last week Dishman undressed Toon on a 4th
 down play with no call. Just kills me that the NFL refs now are no better 
 than the NBA refs with the hometown favortism.
 
 They used to be above it before instant replay but now that TV has made them
 part of the show they always decide to take control at the end of the game.

 Ditto what Glenn said about Elway's performance....

 mike

    Sqwak...
    
    How can you say the Moon was the Better QB.  He and Elways stats
    (total yrds  etc...) were close to the same and guess who will
    be sitting at home this weekend,  It won't be Elway !!  I wonder,
    Will John ever get his due...  Probably not !
    
    BG

    
    	Me too Squawk.
    
    	Here's a tidbit that'll show youze how useless some stats are:
    
    		Elway was 3 for 9 on that drive.........  :^)
    
    	Claybroon

      OLs also help make a QB,  and we all know that Denvers isn't the
    greatest.  Elway was not sacked,  but he scrambled 6x.  At least Denver
    has good RBs!
    
    	Tim

    You could make some exceptionally bad wine with all the sour grapes
    rolling around in here.  Face it: Worn Half Moon had the better team
    but faded in the 2nd half and lost.  He blew that pass to Jeffries
    and after an amazing 1st half was much less accurate when the clutch
    went down.  Elway's superior athletic ability proved him the better
    when it counted.  There's been a lotta talk about the Toiler D being
    among the best in the league.  Certainly they were better than the
    Broncos' (who are classy winners, no Chris Dishman crybabies).
    
    Worn Half Moon was dealing from a better deck and lost on the last 
    call.  John (Big Bad John) reached over and pulled in that heap o'
    chips and flashed that pretty smile to poor Worn Half and walked away
    from the table the gunslinger he is.  Stud.
    
    MrT  
    

    > You could make some exceptionally bad wine with all the sour grapes
    > rolling around in here.
    
    No sour grapes.  I acknowledge that with that final drive created by
    the respect for Elway's unparalleled mobility that he was the better 
    man on Sunday.  I objected to the "Moon choked" stuff and your equally 
    ridiculous assertion that Moon played only half a game.  And you call 
    yourself a objective_analyst!
    
    I notice you didn't rebut my entirely accurate summation of Elway's
    play in past Super Bowl games.  Question for MrT: does Big Bad John get
    the nod to don the G-string?  Think carefully...
    
    glenn
    

    Sqwak,
    
     I got the same mail from Jo*...  The guy is obviously out of touch
    with reality.  I mean, afterall he's still thinks Joe Namth can come
    out of retirement and win a Superbowl for the Jests.  Anyone who puts
    any stock in what the Wardlevain says has an IQ about the same as their 
    show size.
    
     I want to make it clear that I did predict a Bronco win.  No
    outlandish statements that they'll blow the Bills out or that they
    are even the better team.  Only that they have a shot and that I
    am going out on a limb to predict a win for my team.  If some
    of us Bronco fans weren't of the Fairweather type we would be doing 
    the same Tj...  Can't wait to see the upcoming 1992 Donks/Lions
    Superbowl,  It should be great !!
    
    BG

    >your equally ridiculous assertin that Moon played only half a game.
    
    More sour grapes, this time mixed in with water in the form a misquotes?
    
    Ain't never made that statement.  Said Worn Half Moon faded in the 2nd
    half and that he did.  The media noted the same thing.  He numbers show
    it.  103 yards in a run n' shoot is Fade City.  He was inaccurate on
    keys passes.  He carried his team to a big lead and then stumbled and
    fell and a pile of whiney moany woany big trash-talk mouths like Dish
    Chripmain and Givens landed on him.
    
    He faded.  Worn Half Moon to the Raiders for Todd?
    
    MrT

    
    The only way you can say that Moon faded is if you compare his
    second-half stats to the first half, which was simply sublime.  That's 
    a fraudulent, dishonest comparison.  You've given us the second-half 
    yardage totals, now how 'bout the rest of them to back up this 
    inefficacy claim?
    
    It's Bronco playoff time again and we've got MrT propped back up on the 
    bandwagon spewing trash and embarrassing the true faithful yet one more
    time.  It's been two long years but I must say that this is going to be
    well worth the wait!
    
    glenn
    

    Why don't you grow up, Waugamain.  The 2nd half fade was cited not
    by me but by Jones & Christensen (whom I mention not for their 
    analytical expertise but for the statistics handed them by their
    statistician) and by any number of writers and commentators on radio
    and TV.  
    
    If you don't like the fact-based hafl-by-half comparisons of Warren
    Half Moon's balky performanace, well, complain to these men, not to
    MrT, who has been a Broncos fan for 16 years now and not willing to
    apologize for that FACT, especially to a bunch a front-runners like
    the naysayers in here, most especially *you*.
    
    MrT 

    
    > Why don't you grow up, Waugamain.  The 2nd half fade was cited not
    > by me but by Jones & Christensen (whom I mention not for their 
    > analytical expertise but for the statistics handed them by their
    > statistician) and by any number of writers and commentators on radio
    > and TV.  
    
    Gee, I seemed to have missed that commentary, MrT.  Funny how the
    Broncos' fans who were squealing about all the coverage being biased 
    in favor of the Oilers from those two gentlemen could have felt that 
    way what with them citing a Moon "fade" (and subsequently Elway
    superiority).  "Any number" of other writers and commentators might 
    have claimed a Moon fade, too, but most probably very few if any did
    (that sure as hell wasn't what I heard from Bill Parcells and Bob
    Costas the next day).  Suffice it to say we'll never know 'cause we'll 
    never see any attribution.
    
    Let's face it, I and everyone else in here have given Elway credit for
    pulling the game out and most have credited Moon's performance too,
    except you with your Half Moon chokejob version.  You call that
    objective analysis?
    
    glenn
     

    >You call that objective analysis?
    
    Why yes I do.  I think Worn Half Moon is among the top QBs in the
    game, and that he had a great, if overrated, year.  Nowhere did
    I say he "choked."  The first half counts as much as the second.
    
    But let's look at the facts.  I looked for half-by-half breakdowns
    in the USA Today and they weren't there.  But Charlie Jones did say
    "only 103 yards this half" near the end.  And the local NFL beat
    writer here noted that Half Moon just couldn't, in a manner a 
    speaking, "keep it up."  
    
    Meanwhile John was a humping.  Big Bad John.
    
    MrT

    Moon had more at stake than just the game.  He could have doubled his
    salary by winning 2 more games (because of the clause about being paid 
    the average of the top 3 QB's if they make it to the Super Bowl).
    
    Mike

    T, I'm surprised at you.  How can such an objective analyst take one
    statistic out of context and twist it around like that?  Even if you
    didn't do it personally you appear to be condoning the analysis by even
    repeating it.

    
    glenn,
    
    	I don't know how many Bronco games are televised nationally
    	per year, but I saw every game they played (I might've missed
    	one).  Todd C. covered 4 or so that I can remember.  He toes
    	the party line when gushing about Elway but his bias definitely
    	shows through in other areas.  It's real.  I've heard it more
    	than just the Oiler game.  Sorry I can't recite the passages.
    	I usually just guffaw and blow it off.
    
    	And really now, "squealing bias"?  Ned Beatty I aint!!!! :*)
    
    Claybroon

    ref -.1 
    
    That's the way I look at it too. Tod C is a jerk in my estimation.
    He don't like the Donks and the Donks don't like him. Apart from
    that he's a below average announcer. When he does the games, I do
    with him what I pretty much do with all announcers. I tune them out 
    and concentrate on the game. It's hard to do but if you practice 
    hard like every MNF game you find it can be done. By Tod C's standards
    this game didn't strike me as too outrageous. He seems to be loosing
    his edge. It was too much when he started gushing over Reeves. 
    
    BoB    

      I don't know who is worse,  Toad (I mean Todd) or Walsh.

     MrT.  Well Said, Dude... These Anti-Donk Clowns really make
    me want to puke.  Just because their teams are sitting at home 
    watching the off's on T.V. or playing Golf they have to find
    some B.S. to try to stir up those of us who are fans of REAL
    footbal teams with REAL Quarter Backs who are playing in REAL
    football games in the REAL playoffs.  To bad 24 of the 28 teams 
    aren't near as good as the Donks,Bills,Foreskins and Loins.
    
     Todd "Poetry in Motion" Christensen is a BUTT HEAD...  The guy is 
    totaly one sided in announcing Donk games.  It's almost as bad as
    listening to Walsh gush over Joe Montana and the 9er's.  Both of
    these bum should be removed from the booth.
    
    BG

    
    For what it's worth, because MrT is as usual either incapable or
    unwilling to produce the information, Warren Moon was 11-17-0-109 in 
    the second half of last weekend's playoff game, 10-14-0 (71.4%
    completion percentage) for about 100 yards before the final three 
    desperation plays, mostly high-percentage stuff mixed with the running
    game that was effective at keeping the clock running (the Oilers only 
    had three full possessions in the second half and only punted once, on
    the last drive, all game).
    
    I know, I know, we'll surely see this performance twisted and distorted
    to fit the definition of a "fade" anyway, but for the sake of accuracy 
    I felt compelled to report it...
    
    glenn
     
                               

    What's your point, Waugamain.  Worn's 2nd half just wasn't enough
    to overcome John (Big Bad John) and his minions.  The game cranked
    up the 2nd half and ol' Half & Half sagged.  109 x 2 = 218 yards
    which is the rate a a loss in girlymon run n' shoot land.  His
    accuracy was noticably off down the stretch.  The 109 yards he did
    get were on short stuff.  The first half it seemed Worn Half could
    go deep, short, out, or over the middle at will.  But then Wade made
    his adjustments.  And John (Big Bad John) was summoned to force a
    win after so much piddling about with a fairly good running game.
    
    The heat was up, the clutch was down, and Worn Half Moon suddenly
    turned into a 218 yard per game run n' shoot QB.
    
    If that's not fading I dunno what is.
    
    You've demonstrated nothing, Waugamain, except your willingness to
    twist facks and bald-facedly stare down Reality.
    
    MrT

    I'm impressed T,
    You ought to add PH.D to your resume, for Doctor of Spinology.
    Main, wif all them spins you coulda been one of the Four Tops!
    
    MikeL
    

    T,
    
     You couldn't be more right !   Good job keeping the demented fellows
    straight on the facts.  This conference could use more noters of your
    caliber.  Keep up the good work !!
    
    BG

          <<< Note 228.102 by QUASER::HUNTER "Bad_Boy of ::SPORTS" >>>
    >                    -< T = One of the Top Noters ! >-
    
    Will you two get a room already?!?
    
    Mark.

    MrT, you deserve a gold medal for that triple-gainer, double backflip,
    with a triple-axle with a half-twist you made to get off of the Atlanta 
    bandwagon onto Denver's.

    Caint wait to see how you'll jump onto the Washington or Buffalo
    bandwagon ...
    
    Haa.
    
    doc

>          <<< Note 228.102 by QUASER::HUNTER "Bad_Boy of ::SPORTS" >>>
>                        -< T = One of the Top Noters ! >-
                                           ^^^ 
      See, even Gameboy agrees T's a 'spinner'!          
                                            Denny

    
    	Ha!  That's funny coming from a man who has 42 favorite teams
    	Doc! :*)
    
    	Claybroon

    Doc, send MrT that velcro hat that Wardlevane gave ya.
    
    Mark.

    Markie...
    
     I resent the infrence you make in note 228.103.  Just because MrT. 
    and I think alike on some topics (Namely the Donks) it should not be
    twisted into sordid crap the surely is ment to infer that our
    preferences are not in the main stream...  I, and I'm sure MrT. is as
    well, am the perfect representation of true manlyness in every way.
    Keep you perverted sexual inuendo to you self !!
    
    ;^)  ;^)  ;^)
    
    BG

    re: [we] am (are) the perfect representation of true manlyness....
    
    I dunno BG, how many plates can YOU stack???????
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    Last I tried it was 157.275
    
    ;^)
    
    BG

    re .108
    
    B 4 reel .... the way MrT ejacu- I mean gushes over Elway(remember
    "*BIG* Bad Jawn" in every sentence ?), it makes the sober-minded
    wonder....

    There's a flag on the play.
    
    15 yards to the past 3 or 4 replies for breaking conference policy on
    sexual inneundo.

    Hmmmm...  I'm never one to back down from Principle when under 
    wanton and unfair assualt, but being accused of Wardlevainism by
    Midnight of all people really hurts.  For the record: I was never
    on the Falcons' bandwagon as my top team.  I aim a Jerry Jenius
    Glanville fan, and rooted for them all the way.  I thinks it's 
    normal for non-vanes to have ONE fave squad and then some other
    preferences.  Weak tit, Midnight.  But I understand, lookit you,
    on the ropes, knees buckled, eyes glazed, shimmering from nauseous
    sweat, mouth piece hanging out, begging for that last pop to put
    you, the Toilers fan, to sleep to have bad dreams about Worn Half
    Moon's 2nd half gag.
    
    Everybody was talking about the Toilers' D being among the best.
    Then during the game it was the rush being put on John (Big Bad
    John).  Then what great receivers the Toilers have.  Then how
    unstoppable Worn looked (and indeed was) in the first half.  Then,
    after Wade put in his adjustments and wide open receivers were
    under more normal range of coverage, Worn turned into a 216 yards
    per game run n' shoot QB for the most important half of his life.
    
    Call it what you will but call John the better main (Big Bad John).
    
    MrT

    Good Call Mac...  ;^)
    
    BG

    What's the story on Norwood?  He blew the last SB and all the 
    Bills fans were kind and understanding. I only saw the Bills 
    twice this season when KC and they traded blowouts. I recall
    2 FG's last week by him. He was acting like they were game winners
    when in fact neither was.  How's he been doing for accuracy and
    consistency?  What happens, besides me throwing myself to my knees,
    if he misses another big one sunday?
    
    BoB 
    

 He's been very inconsistent this year...in the game against the Raiders he 
 missed either 3 or 4 fg's...definately 2 in the last 2 minutes that could
 have won the ballgame in regulation.

    	Norwood is strictly a phonyturf kicker.  His accuracy is very
    good on the rug but he stinks on the lawn.  The reason the Bills
    kept him after the Raiders fiasco was because they knew they were
    going to play their home playoff games on the turf and the Super
    Bowl is in the Hubert Horatio Hornblower Dome.
    
    				/Don

    
    ...it's still a joke that Norwood gets blammed for losing the Super
    Bowl by missing a 47-yarder by a couple feet, though.  What's the NFL
    percentage for such a kick, on grass (no jokes, Kwak)?  Tough position
    to be put in, and it's not like he choked and squibbed the ball.
    
    glenn
    

    Bet he choke again Sunday...  Donks win 24-21  
    
    
    BGH

    
    Bills denver boot Broncos  27-20
    
    MikeL
    

    Expect to see:
    
    Jim Kelley gets sick early, falls off bench, throws up on self, come
    back in 2nd half and says... " it's just that flu that's going around."
    
    Dan Reeves will get mad and fumes on sidelines saying "I was assured
    it would be lime Gatoraide not that orange crap." Green matches his
    shirt and tie better. 
    
    Bruce Smith plays entire game hopping on 1 leg saying after the game..
    "I'm still not 100% but I couldn't let the fans of Buffalo down." 
    but his 3.5 sacks on Mr. Ed serve as inspiration to his team mates.
    
    BoB

    Buffalo dominated their AFC semifinal opponent last week.  Denver
    needed last-minute heroics to get by a Houston team that's very
    beatable outside the House of Pain.  Appears to me that the Bills are
    the hotter team right now.
    
    Buffalo to win and cover, I'll guess 31-13.
    
    
    py

    
    Come monday the whole state of Colorado will be in the dumps. Mr Ed
    will choke on his own teeth from Corny Bennet(sp)/Bruce Smith sacks. 
    Gary (heard any good Aggie jokes) Kubiak, will throw 3 int, and
    drop an FG attempt from 10 yds. Vance Johnson will get his clock cleaned 
    trying to go over the middle for once. The defense will spend the 2/3
    of the game inside their own 20 or trying to block extra points. But it
    will be an excellent loss for the Donks. 
    
    Cadzilla
    

    John (Big Bad John) will stand tall in front a the entire nation
    in heroic posture.  Women will tremble at his gleaming smile and
    the broad shoulders atop which the entire Bronco franchise rests.
    
    The "G" string will no longer be dangling, but will instead stand
    at rest in front a John's (Big Bad John's) mainly loins, at the
    ready to finally be donned.
    
    Crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden heaping plates a crow, will be 
    served up to the intellectually impoverished in here welfare kitchen-
    style.
    
    MrT

    End of first half, Tie Game: Denver 0 - Buffalo 0
    
    Both Defenses superb
    Buffalo Offense stinks
    Denver Offense great, but cannot score
    Treadwell misses three makeable, but difficult fieldgoal attempts, two
        hit the right upright
    Elway looking good, Kelly ineffective
    Thurman Thomas ineffective
    Buffalo uses two opportunities in last minute of half to run out the
        clock!!
    
    Can Buffalo cover?  Can they win?
    
    -- Jim

    Regarding the Denver/Buffalo game, as they say in Houston, the better
    team lost!  Denver deserved to win: what if Buffalo's defense hadn't
    scored their only touchdown; what if Treadwell would've made some of his
    first half attempts; what if Elway hadn't come up injured; what if Sewell
    hadn't fumbled his last completion with 1:30 to go in the game; what if
    Denver had had the easier schedule that Buffalo had and the game would've
    been played at Mile High?
    
    But those things happened as they did, and the team that deserves to go 
    on to the Superbowl, will.  And will probably do a better job.
    
    As a Bronco fan, I gotta be proud of their showing, but victory
    would've tasted better.  Good Luck Buffalo, you'll need it.  And
    congrats Mr.T.  Of course you were right all along.
    
    -- Jim

              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 36.770                       Bronco notes                        770 of 796
WLDWST::RCARRUTHERS "Night Flier: ~~v~~"              7 lines  10-JAN-1992 04:59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Broncos had better hope they lose or Washington will embarrass them.

    The Bills will win but the Bronc's will cover the spread. It should be
    an entertaining game to watch.

                                                   Night Flier  ~~v~~
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

       Well no pain for the Bronco fans hoping that they will finally win a
    Superbowl game. They have nothing to be ashamed of with Elway pulling
    up lame for most of the game and Kubiak almost pulling it out of the 
    fire to either tie or win this game. The Bills were tied up in knots for 
    90% of the game due to great defensive play by Denver. 
     
       Offensively the Bills could do hardly anything. I would have to most 
    definitely give the game to the Bills defense. If it wasn't for that 
    interception by Buffalo we could be looking at another Denver Superbowl 
    try.

       Just to sum up my feelings....it was a great Defensive game. It was
    one of the most entertaining matchups I've seen in awhile. I'm just
    glad that it turned out to be a fun game to watch.

       Buffalo is going to have to do allot better on Offense than they did
    this week if they expect to beat Washington. It's not often you get the 
    2 top teams during the year to face one another in the Superbowl so this
    should be a great game. Buffalo will play well but fall short by 3 or 4
    points. It should go right down to the last minutes of the 4th Quarter.

                                                   Night Flier   ~~v~~ 

       
      

I had the opportunity to watch both games in a totally objective manner
(because Ray Handley fouled up the Giants so bad this year 8^))


The major thing I noticed in BOTH games was that, for supposedly the
ALMOST-BEST officials (assuming BEST will be officiating in two weeks)
really stunk up the joint.

If they are going to have replay, they ought to use it correctly.
During the replays, I thought the remarkable INT by the Denver DL
was trapped, but they didn't show it enough to be sure.  I thought, surely,
there is a replayable call.


In the Washington game, the big pileup fumble was correctly ruled no TD,
but it was clearly Washington's ball.



The refs stink.


Buffalo-Denver game was very exciting.


'Saw

    I never heard much about Buffalo's defense
    
    Jeff Wright and Cornelius Bennett were incredible yesterday
    
    

    	'Saw,
    
    	I totally agree about the refs. On one play, the Lions
    	defensive player got called for a blatant face mask, although
    	the replay showed that his hand just slid across the face
    	mask. If he had actually grabbed the face mask, why didn't
    	the Washington player's head or helmet even turn toward him.
    
    	Some really poor officiating on more than a couple of occasions.
    
    	Scott

    > Crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden heaping plates a crow, will be 
    > served up to the intellectually impoverished in here welfare kitchen-
    > style.
    
    No argument here.  Excellent job of self-assessment, MrT!
    
    glenn
    

    Anyone watch the postgame on NBC?  They showed this group of Bills fans
    celebrating their victory.  They all had shirts on that said in big,
    readable, unfit for a national audience letters: "F*** {something}".
    
    Two questions:
    
    	1. Does anyone know what that {something} was since the shirt also
    	   had a Bills helmet on it?
    	2. Anyone know where a sports TV director can get a new job?  I'm
    	   sure the guy in the truck just may have a pink slip in his
    	   mailbox today.
    
    --dan'l

      Whatta game!!!
    
      Treadwell pulls a Norwood at the wrong time!
      Elway went to the well 1 to many times!
    
      Sewell had a great game.  He didn't cost the Broncos the game.  The
    1st above mentioned did IMO.  3 missed FG's = loss!
    
      Defense had the best game of the year!  They shut Thomas and co down, 
    and put a major hurt on Thomas.  Both he and Dennis Smith's ears were a
    ringin'.
    
      Congrats to the Bills and their fans!
    
      I eat no crow today since my prediction happened.
    
      The Broncos outplayed the Bills in all aspects of the game except
    pass rush.  They should have won,  but couldn't get it done.
    
      Bennet had a great game.  Atewater and Smith played their hearts out!
    
      Some of the Buffalo players are a little airogant(sp?)!!  They barely
    pull a win out of their a$$,  and they act like they killed the
    Broncos.
    
      Buffalo better play better offense than they did yesterday,  or the
    'skins will put them in their place!
    
      Excellent game!!!!!
    
    	Tim

    BIg Bad John .....
    
    
    
    NOT !!!!!!!!!
    
    HAA !!!!!!!1

>    Both Defenses superb
     yup no argument

>    Buffalo Offense stinks
     yup no argument

>    Denver Offense great, but cannot score
     they started at around the 50 all of the first half and alls they could
     do was move 15 yards and try a FG, This is great offense????
 
>   Treadwell misses three makeable, but difficult fieldgoal attempts, two
>        hit the right upright
    44 and 37 yards should be made. 47 tough but the others aren't.

>    Elway looking good, Kelly ineffective
     he over threw guys, under threw them and took a 16 yard sack after holding
     the ball for 8 seconds. Won't even commnet on his second half..

>    Thurman Thomas ineffective
     agreed. why didn't they throw him any swing passes?

>    Buffalo uses two opportunities in last minute of half to run out the
>        clock!!

     dumb...
       
   
 mike

    Ho-lee Shee-yit, What a game! Denver's D played so far above their
    haids that they're probably still bleeding. Bennett is fast! Elway has
    horns. 

    One thing that was funny was listening to the Bills fans chant 
    "BRRRUUUCCCEEEE" when Smith didn't do anything.  Wright or Bennet or
    Conlin or Seals would knock the guy down, SMith would fall on him, get
    up and the fans cheer him...kinda funny to me...
    
    JD

>    One thing that was funny was listening to the Bills fans chant 
>    "BRRRUUUCCCEEEE" when Smith didn't do anything.  Wright or Bennet or
>    Conlin or Seals would knock the guy down, SMith would fall on him, get
>    up and the fans cheer him...kinda funny to me...

JD, 

I interpreted Bruce Smith playing and receiving those cheers kind of
in the way Willis Reed did in the NBA Finals, albeit on a much smaller
scale.

I think they were applauding his guts to be out there....


'Saw

    Saw -
    
    Maybe in the beginning, but a few times it was cuz they thought Smith
    made the play - when in really was Wright.  IN fact, Wright played the
    best game I've ever seen him play.  He controlled the line of
    scrimmage.
    
    Even Enberg a few times called SMiths name, only to have Walsh tell him
    that it was someone else that made the play.
    
    JD

>    Maybe in the beginning, but a few times it was cuz they thought Smith
>    made the play - when in really was Wright.  IN fact, Wright played the
>    best game I've ever seen him play.  He controlled the line of
>    scrimmage.

Oh....


btw, Walsh drove me up the wall.  He kept insisting that the teams
were going to have to stop blitzing.  I'm sitting there saying
"This is the best D I've seen in a long time -- why stop doing what
works?  Until the offense adapts, kept it up"


'Saw

    
    	Great D on both sides yesterday.
    
    	Somebody paid Treadwell off!
    
    	Neither Elway or Kelly played worth a damn.
    
    	Great hitting!  I only wish somebody would have turned Leonard
    	"I wanna be in pictures" Smith's lights out.  I was hoping
    	the cart's driver would come to a sudden halt and launch his
    	hot dog butt.  
    
    	Claybroon

    re: Saw
    
    Yeh, Walsh was getting on my nerves too.  He has a classic
    Not-Invented-Here attitude.  At least yuesterday wasn't as bad as one
    of his usual performances.  Walsh obviously has a lot of insight into
    the game.  If only he could improve his presentation style.
    
    It was very satisfying to see Denver lose the way it did.  After the
    sour grapes talk directed at the Houston fans, it will be interesting
    to see the shoe on the other foot.
    
    The Buffalo offense seems to be a hot/cold team.  It seems to be that
    way for any finess (?) team.  If the D can find a way to disrupt the
    flow, the O bogs down quickly.  Here's hoping that the Buffalo O has a
    good day against Washington.
    
    Scott

    
    I think Walh's problem is that he tries to intellectualize everything
    and is humorless. 
    
    Brews, fan of Walsh as a coach, not an announcer

                           
> btw, Walsh drove me up the wall.  He kept insisting that the teams
> were going to have to stop blitzing.  I'm sitting there saying
> "This is the best D I've seen in a long time -- why stop doing what
> works?  Until the offense adapts, kept it up"
    
    As the previous replies suggest, what Walsh was saying in his own
    subtle way was that his 49er teams with Joe Montana at the helm would
    have carved those blitzing defenses up.  And he's right about that, 
    they would have.  No one is better at reading a defense and quickly 
    finding the open man than Montana.  Problem is that neither Kelly nor
    Elway are in Montana's class.  This roll-out and pray something happens
    strategy doesn't work against disciplined defenses when that's all you 
    do.  Note the contrast between Elway's and Kubiak's performances. 
    Sometimes you've got to say the hell with it and throw the damn ball to
    your most high-percentage option on the field, even if the guy isn't
    wide open.  Elway wants the play to break down completely before he
    throws, trying to do too much himself in spite of the proven success
    that strategy has yielded against lesser defenses...
    
    glenn
     

    
     GREAT GAME...  I'm disappointed, Yea.  But I have to say that one
    of the best playoff games I've seen in a while.  
    
     The Donks could have easily turned this one into a laugher but just
    couldn't capitalize on the chances that the Bills handed to them in 
    the first half.  What a shame.  The defense played a great game and
    made it enjoyable to the end.  I really hope they can carry that type
    of play into next season.  The offense on the other hand needs a kick
    start .  I don't know how this will happen with the type of consertive
    offense the Dan revees like to run but they will need to do better
    in the red zone next year to have any hopes of returning to the
    Championship game.  Serve me my crow...  I'll say I deserve it but I'm
    not ashamed of the way the Broncos played.  They played hard and they
    stayed in it till the end.  
    
    
    8^(
    
    Big Game Hunta
    
    
     P.s.  Look for Treadwell to have some stiff comp. in training camp
           next year...  

    I wound up listening to this game once (on the TV) and then watching it
    once.  (Don't ask -- it was worth it.)
    
    If there had been *any* way to turn off Walsh the second time around, I
    would have.  The guy absolutely drove me up a bleeping wall.  I will be
    sooo glad when he isn't NBC's #1 analyst next year.
    
    Does anyone really understand what Denver's D did to shut down
    Buffalo's O?  Is it something that the Redskin's will be able to
    repeat?  The person I watched the game with felt that Kelly wasn't
    throwing well - that in baseball terms he was aiming the ball rather
    than really letting it fly.  Was Kelly having some kind of trouble, and
    the aggressive D only magnified it, or was the D the problem?
    
    A&W

>    Does anyone really understand what Denver's D did to shut down
>    Buffalo's O?  Is it something that the Redskin's will be able to
>    repeat?  The person I watched the game with felt that Kelly wasn't
>    throwing well - that in baseball terms he was aiming the ball rather
>    than really letting it fly.  Was Kelly having some kind of trouble, and
>    the aggressive D only magnified it, or was the D the problem?
    
They were blitzing a lot.  Beyond that I didn't pay that much attention
to Walsh's expert ANAL-y-sis.


I know this.  Denver and Buffalo's defensive coaches prepared each defense
extremely well.  Washington is another team that has tremendous quality
of preparation.  

Look for the Bowl to be a damn good game!


'Saw

    We watched the game and had the radio tuned to 1300 AM so we wouldnt
    have to listen to Walsh. A very exciting game if you like defensive
    struggles. I really felt sorry for Sewell though, he played his heart
    out and then was stripped of the ball on the final drive. A lot of
    people believe that  Washington will roll. I think " Baffalo " will get
    it's offense on track for the "Big Show". The Super Bowl should really
    be a Super Bowl again this year.
    
    
    Drew
     

Buffalo didn't do anything to stop the safeties from coming up to the line of
scrimmage and crushing the run and the short passes over the middle. The best
way to make a safety stop and think before rushing to the line of scrimmage is
to throw the ball long once in a while. Buffalo refused to do this yesterday.
Another great way to freeze the safeties is to throw a halfback pass down
field. Even if these aren't completed they put something into the mind of the
safety and make them think.

Pretty poor coaching on both offenses part not to figure out a way to stimy the
blitzing defense. Denver was more effective with the short screen passes.
Buffalo should have tried a few to Thermal.

Rypien & Washington would have thrown long against either of these teams...
It's what they do best....

Good game as far as power hitting.....It's about time Bennett got some praise
instead of Bruce (big mounth) Smith.....It seems like the announcers are told
to hype one or two players on each team before the game and they forget that 
other players can also play good games...even better games than the superstars..

Should be a good super bowl....I'll take the Bills and the points but the
Skins to win outright by 3...


Metz

 Maybe Metz, they were so over-confident that get by Denver, they didn't wish
 to show the Skins the ability to do just that. Now the Skins try the same 
 tatic and whamoo they go up top for 6. 

 mike

    
     Boy,  Childs, you're really out there.  I'm gonna send you a few
    bucks,  maybe then you can afford a clue !!
    
    Big game Junta

    The experts were almost correct. They predicted a blowout and it
    almost was. In reverse, that is. Pardon me if I decline from 
    indulging in some black bird buffet. The neighborhood bookie 
    provided me with some healing salve and it seems to work ok.
    What happened?  In a nutshell, Buffalo's much hearalded offensive
    power was in fact there it just doesn't do well against solid D.
    Buffalo looked confused a lot because they had read that this game
    was suppose to be over by half time. They expected a much easier day.
    
    I'm not one to bitch about officiating but if the NFL claims only 'the
    best' get to call playoff games, then I think we're all in trouble.
    
    BoB

    Now I've seen it all, Big Game Hunter is criticizing another noter for
    talking trash and making "baseless" statements.  The same BGH who got
    raked over the coals by John "Ninja" Hendry after BGH made some
    baseless comments about the Patriots.

    Ahhhh Shadup....
    
    Big Game Junta

    re.158
    
      What else could you expect from man(?) that has a 9 in. pony tail.
    
    Cadzilla

    If you weren't in it, you probably at least saw it on the news about
    the arctic blast.  Of particular note was the 65-80 mph winds along
    Lake Erie.  Imagine if that would have hit Sunday!  What a game that
    would have been.  Too bad.
    
    	--dan'l

    >AXIS::ROBICHAUD "HOMER,PLATO,VOLTAIRE,bobknight"
    
    A breach a contract by the /Robitussin main.  You said you'd run my
    p_name and you didn't.  It had to be verbatim and it wasn't.  For this
    I command you to a additional week a punishment.
    
    MrT

    	wHat CAIN I saY.  I'M shift LOCk keY CHALLEngeD...

Poor MrT!

Were you at the Ring of Fire exhibit as I suspected?  Or were you
checking out your luxury box at the HHH Dome?


Well, MrT is back, now all we need to know is where ACC Chris is...


'Saw

    Slasher,
    
     I beleive T has a valid point.  Least you could do is change it 
    for the rest of the day..   ;^)
    
    BG

    Obviously the Broncos loss and Elway's performance has hurt T deeply. 
    His replies are a mere shadow of his former work.  It is sad to see him
    relying on excuses, what ifs, and spin control.  Using tactis that he
    decries in others.  Then again, I guess he is back to normal ~/~

Actually, NOTES software is not case sensitive like the C compiler.

I'd bet that to NOTES, /Don's p-name looks the same no matter how he
types it....


heh, heh, heh....

'Saw

    Kev, I know you're joshing, but Saw was right on in his Moderator note.
    
    Mark.

     Agreed...  And I'm one of the biggest offenders... I'll be gone soon,
    don't worry !
    
    BG

    
  >> <<< Note 228.174 by QUASER::HUNTER "Steelers To The Super Bowl In `93" >>>

  >>   Agreed...  And I'm one of the biggest offenders... I'll be gone soon,
  >>  don't worry !
    
    Li"T""T"le'n'Lame Hun"T"er, eh???  
    
    After "T"'s "hoax", sure we really believe you!!!!
    
    (8^)*
    JaKe
    
    

     Fake...  As any of my many fans in this conference can tell ya,
    I always fade to black after FB season.  I'll be back come the 
    preseason though.
    
    Big Game
    
    P.s.  I did hear a roumor that I was quitting DEC to go work for Apple.
    	  I asked myself if this was true and I said no.  

    Oh, one of those foul weathered noters, Eh??
    
    Hey, football season is over for you wo why don't you get the &^*#
    outta here right now????
    
    JaKe
    (8^\/*
    
    

    Fake...
    
     Why don't you %^&* off, right now !!   ;^)
    
     I'll leave when I'm damn good and ready, or I'm 
    thrown out by the Mod's... Which ever comes first.
    
    Big Pain (In your neck, I hope)

    
    >>Big Pain (In your neck, I hope)
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Nah, about 3 feet lower than my neck is where you're a pain.
    
    (8^)*
    
    Just make sure you stay in here for  week after the Super Bowk to show
    off your edited P-Name
    
    
    JaKe
    

    Mebbee Big Bad John suddenly had 55-10 flash through his mind just
    before he released that ball for the key interception.  Mebbee
    something similar happened when he got banged in the thigh.
    
    ~/~

    
    
    re: ~/~....  
    
     And doing a good job of it, Mac !!!
    
    BG

From:	AXIS::ROBICHAUD    "Donald J. Robichaud ML 5-5/E72 Ext 3-7111" 20-JAN-1992 13:36:07.04
To:	ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY
CC:	
Subj:	RE: *Well?!*

	Hey, you're the one who has a problem with my payment of the bet.  YOU
can bring it up in ::SPORTS.  I just didn't want to give any consent to your
stacking of "a_august" commission of hoosier bigots whose sole purpose would be
to hang me by the short hairs.  As far as I'm concerned the bet is paid and the
subject should be closed.  

				/Don
    ****************************************************************************
    
    A CALL TO ACTION:
    
    /Robitussin welshed his bet and refuses to make good on his debt to me.
    He agreed to run my p_name (Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight) and failed
    to do so after failing to cover the bet by 10 points (ha ha ha).  Instead
    he ran a different p_name (PLATO,HOMER,VOLTAIRE,bobknight), which carries
    an opposite meaning of my p_name by clearly suggesting that Bob is NOT
    a peer of the other Pantheon-dwellers by using the upper-lower case trick.
    
    I'd like to assemble a panel of non-Hoosier bigots (see /Robitussin's 
    request above) to expeditiously settle this easily settled dispute by
    answering this open and shut question:
    
    		Was the bet's debt made good on, did he run my
    		p_name as specified in the terms a the bet?
    
    Please help me.  You too could come home from Florida to find *you've*
    been robbed.  Think about it.
    
    MrT

    Here are my suggested panel members:
    
    Cap
    JD
    TTom
    BobHunt
    mike childs
    
    MrT

    
    	You welched Slashah!
    
    	Claybroon

    I'm not on the suggested panel, but I'm far from a Hoosier bigot.  It
    was while I was a student at Purdue that I lost any interest in college
    hoops, on accounta it was blown way, way outta proportion even back in
    the dark ages when I was in college.
    
    In my opinion, the bet has been paid off, and it's time to get on to
    something else. 
    
    A&W

    A&W, how cain the bet be "paid off" if he didn't do what he said he'd
    do if he lost?
    
    He didn't run my p_name.  He cheated.  He welshed.  The p_name he ran
    was: 1) not my p_name, 2) meant the opposite of my p_name, and 3)
    didn't fulfill his obligation per the bet.
    
    You said you want to get on to something else, which means you're not
    willing to carefully and objectively weigh this matter.  
    
    For that reason you must be disqualified as a juror.  
    
    MrT

	Figures MorT would want a "commission" to decide this instead of 
letting the public decide.  It's much harder to bribe the entire ::SPORTS 
community, isn't it?  My small "shift lock" error actually went undetected, 
even by myself, until Phineas MrT Bluster decided to make a federal case out 
of it.  The bet's paid off as far as I'm concerned.  MorT's whining kind of 
sounds like: "The crowd noise affected our offense" -Dan Reeves, and "The 
wind was blowing to hard" -Treadwell.  Birds of a feather...

				/Don

    >My small "shift lock" error
    
    So, you're pleading incompetence?  A compelling legal tactic in your
    particular case, but a dud.  If a main bets $10 and "mistakenly" 
    pays on $5, he still owes.
    
    In your case you've paid nothing and the enitire debt is still due.
    
    MrT

    Mr t., nowhere in the bet did it say whether upper/lower case was
    to be used! The Slasher has paid his debt off....
    
    REK

       I'll have to go along with Slasher. If it WASN'T a simple slip of
    the shift lock key, it was obviously a mere college type prank.
                                         Denny

    >Mr t., nowhere in the bet did it say whether upper/lower case was
    >to be used!
    
    This is why I wanted a august panels a intellectuals to rule on this
    tort: juror incompetence.
    
    Again, the bet was that we'd run the other's personal_name.  /Robey
    ran a p_name that I've never run, one that has never been mine, and
    one with an opposite meaning.
    
    /Robitussin FAILED to make good on THE TERMS OF THE WAGER.
    
    Period.
    
    Let's keep a little more clear-haided and less mixed-up before we pull
    that vote lever, ok?
    
    MrT
    

    
    >3-2 for "Not Guilty"
    
    Cain't you even count, CoughSyrupBrainForBrains?
    
    Denny said "it was obviously just a college prank" with "it" being
    your non-payment.  3-2 "Guilty" and that's in writing!
    
    MrT

    Hey, I was on the commission list.  Slasher is guilty.  This wasn't an
    innocent 'mistake'.  The Slash knows the difference between upper and
    lower.  It was craven welching at its best...
    
    JD

       What I 'really' said was IF it wasn't a slip o' the key. That hasn't
    been determined. You must show /ers 'intent' if you think he keyslipped
    on purpose. In other words prove his intentions weren't honorable.
                                      Denny

 While I know he's as quilty as sin ( I laughed my butt off at his ingenuity)
 and I'd love to hang his butt out to dry for his errorless needling of the
 GENERAL I'd have to vote not quilty. No where during the betting was it 
 stated that the looser must run the p_name per vadium. 

 I just hope his idolizing at the false prophet's temple in NC catches up
 with him...

 mike

    

    	I didn't agree to a commission.  Let the people decide!  

    >If it WASN:T a simple slip of the shift lock key
    
    No matter how it happened, one cain't claim payment a a unpaid debt
    due to payer's error.  Abusurd.
    
    >... it was obviously a mere college type prank.
    
    "It" being non-payment.  Denny thus agrees the debt stands unpaid.
    
    A wager is a wager.  One must pay when one loses.  The bet was to
    run my p_name and he didn't.  He still owes me one week running
    "Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight."
    
    Pay up welsh.
    
    MrT 

    
    I've got to vote with the Slasher.  Ordinarily I'd accede to MrT's 
    wisdom on the subject at hand (BobKnight's greatness), but after
    reading MrT's deluded version of what happened in the AFC Championship 
    Game that the bet itself was riding on, I can only conclude that the
    man has slipped into a (hopefully) temporary state of insanity and as
    such his objectivity is seriously in question...
    
    glenn
    
    

       How's that Slash?
                                     Denny

    
    From a non-nominated panel member, but someone who followed this
    challenge closely..
    
    I'll have to go along with MrT.   It's hard to believe that someone
    could type three names in caps, then switch to lower case accidentally.
    And more importantly, the lower case does contradict the meaning and 
    intent of T's P-name.  Intentional or not, MrT has been harmed and
    should be given what he truly deserves.
    
    Pat
    
    

    >In other words prove his intentions weren't honorable.
    
    Irrelevant!
    
    This isn't criminal court, Denny.  This is a tort.  He cain't claim
    payment was made when it clearly wasn't simply cuz he was "mixed-up"
    or otherwise incompetent.  His intentions don't matter.  He made a 
    bet with clear terms and failed to fulfill them so the debt is still
    due: 1 week running my p_name.  
    
    Maybe it should be criminal court so old /Robey could get himself
    declared insane and thus not culpable for his own actions.  That would
    be nice.  But no cain do.  This is a tort.  So maybe the best thing to
    do is for him to admit guilt, put on my p_name, and simply disappear
    for a week.  That would be nice too.
    
    MrT

       Did you hear that Slasher? MorT called you a tart!
                                        Denny

    We're gonna have to throw out Waugamain's verdict too.  In REK's case
    it was cuz he was incompetent.  In Denny's cuz he stated that the
    debt wasn't paid.  In Waugamain's case cuz, as has become his habit,
    cuz he openly admits that his opinion is based on the personalities
    involved and not the facts of the matter.
    
    4-1 Guilty.
    
    MrT

    	5-4 "Not Guilty" MorT's Stalin like tactics ignored...

    >While I know he's as guilty as sin
    
    Oh, strike childs' vote too.  He knows you're guilty.  That means
    he votes for a Guilty verdict.
    
    MrT
    
    ps-to-childs: I said run my p_name.  What he ran was never my p_name.
    Case closed.
    
    

    Steel 5-4.  Mr Scopes Monkey Trial.

    The evidence stands MR t. THER WAS NO MENTION of upper and lower case.
    The bet was for the names.....
    
    You you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?
    
    REK

    >You you naturally this stupid or did you have to work at it?
    
    It it [sic] didn't NEED to be explicitly stated, wREK.  This is so
    cuz I specified that he run *my* p_name, which capitalized only the
    first letter in each name.
    
    Fini.
    
    MrT

    >Credibility of the claimant *is* relevant, MrT...
    
    That would be true if we were deciding on the circumstances surrounding
    how the bet was made.  But we aren't.  We are simply deciding whether
    the bet was indeed paid, so credibility is not related, any more than
    a court would sit down and rule on whether the dollar bills in a unpaid
    debt were credible or incredible.
    
    To refresh: The wager was that we'd run the other's p_name.  He didn't
    run my p_name.  He ran a p_name *I* never ran or even saw.  This means
    the debt hasn't been paid.
    
    MrT

I can't find the text of the wager but here's the germaine fack, as I
sees it:

Did /er run T's p-name?
	No. 	
	He used a p-name that had the same words but in no way was it 
	T's p-name.

However, I'm willing to extend to him the Guilty but not really 'cause
he's obviously lost his grip and started rootin for Dean. 

Speaking of Dean, we know that this honorable man pays his dues. You
didn't hear about Dean trying to play with the State Cop who busted him
for speeding in Virginia. Not Dean. He coughed up the money and probably
a fair amount of phlegm but he paid his dues.

Slasher, Dean would want you to pay off this wager.

TTom

    T as in sTupid, you didn't make that point in you bet.
    The letter of the law still stands, Slasher did run the names...
    
    REK
    
    PS read a law book some time, capital letters do not change the basic
    agreement.

    I agree that Slasher is not guilty for the same reasons as REK.
    
    Hey "T", Waaaaaah, Waaaaaaah, Waaaaaaaah!!!!!
    
    JaKe
    

Here's the wager, I has found it:
>>>
================================================================================
Note 36.677                       Bronco notes                        677 of 858
AXIS::ROBICHAUD "Aristotle,Socrates,Euclid,D.Smith"   7 lines   7-JAN-1992 15:30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    	Okay MorT, here's the deal.  You get the Donkeys and 11 points
    for a P-Name bet.  If the Broncos win or cover I have to carry that
    disgusting "Homer,Plato,Voltaire,BobKnight" personal name for a
    week.  BUT, if the Bills win and cover you take my P-Name for a week.
    Whaddaya say? 
    
    				/Don
================================================================================
>>>

In his own write, the Slasherino has not lived up to the wager.

TTom

    >T as in STupid, you didn't make that point in you [sic] bet.
    
    Didn't have to.  The only point that needed to be made was made:
    that /Robitussin run my p_name (which he didn't do).
    
    >PS read a law book some time, capital letters do not change the
    >basic agreement.
    
    Duhhh, listen up genius, the agreement and the p_name are two different
    things.  The agreement was clear: run the p_name.  The p_name was just
    as clear: "Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight."  
    
    You've watched too much L.A. Law, name-caller.  He welshed, and you're
    pro-cheat.  Maybe you should concentrate on deciding the credibility
    of dollar bills.
    
    MrT

    >If the Broncos win or cover I have to carry that disgusting "Plato,
    >Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight" for a week.
    
    Thank you thank you thank you TTom.  In HIS OWN WORDS he specified that
    he would by requirement run my p_name verbatim.  So, according to
    /Robey's own specifications he welshed the bet!
    
    Any a you pro-cheats care to re-cast your verdicts at this time?  (I 
    assume REK's will stand, *he* likes holding up bad meat, and /Robey 
    is certainly that.)
    
    MrT

      Looking at the evidence in .225,  your Guilty slasher!!!!
    
    	Tim

sorry /Don if you had removed the quotes from the text in your bet I'd have 
voted not-guilty but as any good technoweenie knows when you put in things into
quotes it means a literal translation....

Guilty as charged and you should run the correct p-name for 1 week after the 
super bowl...


Mez

	Much as I hate to side with T, the evidence is quite clear:
	Slasher's guilty.

	Interesting to also note is 228.128's confession by Mr.T that
	he has a long way to go in the intellectual department:

        <<< Note 228.128 by ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "John (Big Bad John)" >>>
                               -< my prediction >-

>    John (Big Bad John) will stand tall in front a the entire nation
>    in heroic posture.  Women will tremble at his gleaming smile and
>    the broad shoulders atop which the entire Bronco franchise rests.
    
>    The "G" string will no longer be dangling, but will instead stand
>    at rest in front a John's (Big Bad John's) mainly loins, at the
>    ready to finally be donned.
    
>    Crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden heaping plates a crow, will be 
>    served up to the intellectually impoverished in here welfare kitchen-
>    style.
    
>    MrT

    
    Considering the discusssion in here last week about the correct
    spelling of ALL-IN-1, not All-in-one etc ..... and knowing that T's
    P-name is as important to him as a trademark here in the sporting
    community its clear that the bet was not paid.   
    
    
    
     

    I was going back and fourth with my vote but after reading note
    .225 it is clear that the bet was NOT paid off. 
    
                                                     Dan
    

    
    GUILTY!  Hang him.  Force him to become an Oilers fan!

    
    KNOWING /ER oooppps, cap lock stuck, better unstick it, i think it was
    all just a misunderstanding and a simple college prank.  i vote not
    guilty.  if he really wanted to cheat he could have run the p_name
    during a week he is on vacation, but /don is too honest to do that.
    
    BREWS 

       
    I kinda thought that placing BobKnight's name in lower case was for 
    emphasis, the dumb video screen equivalent of italics, in order to 
    distinguish the great one as the modern but otherwise worthy 
    equivalent of the old masters.  I commend the Slasher for his genius 
    in honoring Bob so exquisitely, completely in the spirit of the bet!
    
    The fact that MrT would complain about such an honor goes toward the
    credibility/mental stability issue I raised earlier.  Not only was
    Slasher's currency good, the payoff on the bet was rendered in crisp, 
    uncirculated bills!
    
    glenn
    

    The evidence is clear and damning as brought out in .225.
    Slasher you did not run the P-name as you claimed.
    Vote for MrT and guilty.
    
    However, let us look at the evidence again.
    /Don utilizes the lower case in "Plato,Homer,Voltaire,bobknight"
    Unfortunately T, you did not recognize the sheer intellectual
    brilliance of the Slasher's usage of lower case in this interpetation
    of your p-name. This usage is the ultimate crowning compliment to
    Bob Knight's coaching genius.
    To wit: Slasher,a dedicated believer in the utlimate excellence
    and achievements of his employer, Digital Equipment Corporation,
    thusly foisted his undying estimability of Digital and translated
    it into your trademarked p-name.
    
    digital @tm= bobknight=greatness.
    Can you not see this ,my main? He hath elevated Bob Knight past
    Plato, Homer, abd Voltaire.
    Yes, Slasher is guilty as charged, and you sir,MrT, must be
    magnanimous in victory. Cast down your demands for welshing
    on /Don. He has not only paid his debt in his own way, but has
    for everyone to see, exalted Bob Knight to immortal greatness.
    
    Be the wise victor,T, and claim eternal superiority in this battle
    of coaches. He hath bowed before ye.
    
    
    Yours in Gandalf,
    MikeL
    

    Glenn, I'm amazed that you've sunk so low.  The SLash himself - who
    instigated the bet - but the p-name he'd run in the note.  The evidence
    is there.  No matter what you think of T - the Slash welched.
    
    Remember, the Slash instigated the bet.  The Slash set the wager.  The
    Slash entered, in quotes, the p_name he'd display if he lost the wager.
    
    And then he welched by changing the case of the letters, and therefore,
    changing the message.
    
    I can see Doc Midnight siding with /Don, and BREWS, and JaKe - but
    Glenn, I expected more from you...
    
    JD

    Hey Glenn,
    Takes a coupla "geniuses" like us to unravel this, eh. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    BTW, musta been kismet
    

    
    > Glenn, I'm amazed that you've sunk so low.  The SLash himself - who
    > instigated the bet - but the p-name he'd run in the note.  The evidence
    > is there.  No matter what you think of T - the Slash welched.
    
    In praising the exultation of Bob's greatness I've sunk so low?  Should 
    I take it all back, then?
    
    If Slash was welshing all last week and everyone is so offended by it,
    why didn't anyone but T pick up on it and say something?  Nay, the
    spirit of the bet was fulfilled.  Post-facto intellectual dishonesty,
    spurred by a deranged man unable even to recognize the highest of
    compliments, is most certainly at work in here today...
    
    glenn
    

    I say all bets in here are null and void as per the Saw's request
    to clean up this notesfile.  Can asking for payments on bets be
    grounds for dismissal for acknowledged gambling?  I don't know
    MorT, I hope this notesfile doesn't go away because of you...

    
    >>I can see Doc Midnight siding with /Don, and BREWS, and JaKe - but
    
    Just got back from a service call and read the replies since my reply
    taking Slasher's side and after seeing the note of the original wager
    I must change my vote.  Slasher put the quote of what he'd run in here
    and then changed it.  (gulp) "T" is right.
    
    JaKe
    

    
     Agreed...  the Slasher is GUILTY...  Fry da Bum...
    Pay up /er...  any self respecting man would do so.
    
    
    Big Game (Who did run a specified P-Name for the required period)

    Way to go Slasher!
    
    cAsE iS iRrEleVaNt In VMS!

    What I'm about to say really hurts.  However, justice MUST be served. 
    For this moment in time WILDCAT, lover of UK basketball, must side with
    MrT, lover of IU basketball.
    
    This may be the first time in history that a UK fan and IU fan have
    agreed on something.  Truth, justice and the American Way are what we
    are after here folks.  It's painfully obvious that /DON didn't meet the
    demands of the wager.  Whether it was a typo or not is irrelevant. 
    BTW, evidence points to it being done intentionally since /DON didn't
    make the same mistake in stating the wager.
    
    This P-Name was obviously demeaning.  Therefore I come to the
    reasonable and objective conclusion that /DON is GUILTY!
    
    WILDCAT

    
    >>For this moment in time WILDCAT, lover of UK basketball, must side with
                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Sheez, ya learn somethin new every day, don't ya.  I never knew that
    there was organized backsketball over in the United Kingdom!!
    
    Oh well, richer for the knowledge.
    
    JaKe
    

Just a FRIENDLY REMINDER:

I know you'll all "do the right thing".



              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 1.28                     Welcome to SPORTS '91                     28 of 32
CAMONE::WAY "I believe I'll dust my broom"           18 lines  18-DEC-1991 13:46
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:


I would like to bring to everyone's attention in this conference, that
betting or wagering is against Digital's P&P.

The LINE is displayed in this conference for amusement purposes only.


If individuals who participate in this conference wish to wager with
each other (at their OWN risk) they should handle it in mail and
NOT via sports.

Please keep this in mind in the future....


thank you,
frank and the other mods

    	I must defer to Frank and ask all those who have sent me mail
    saying they were voting "Not GUILTY" to cease and desist.  Subject
    closed for the good of the notesfile.
    
    				/Don

    Nyah shaddap, welsh.
    
    Hey Frank, no money was wagered.  Just a punitive personal_name.
    That's perfectly legal, even, as I interpret them, by the rules
    and regulations a the Company and EZnet.
    
    It was all in harmless fun.  That is, until /Robitussin showed 
    what he's really made of...
    
    Poor MrT

    
     Slasher,  I though you a better man that this.  Of all
    the people I thought might welch on a harmless wager you
    never came to mind.  JaKe, Childs, or even the Groaner,
    But not you, Slasher.  I am very very disappointed in
    you as both and old timer in ::SPORTS and as a human
    being...  This is a sad sad day in the history of ::SPORTS
    
    :^(
    
    BG

    Oh no you don't, /Robey.  You're not going to escape the grip of
    Justice based on some legal technicality.  The verditct is in:
    
    GUILTY by a vote of 14-8.
    
    Just in case you try to get cheaty again, /Robitussin, here's the
    detail list.  Please note how tainted your votes are.
    
    		GUILTY					NOT GUILTY
    
    1.  Claybroon .184				1.  A&W .185
    2.  Hawk .187				2.  REK .195  - he sez you're
    3.  JD .201						incompetent
    4.  Pat .210				3.  Denny .197 - "it" (non-
    5.  TTom .222					payment) was a college
    6.  Tim .229					prank or incompetence,
    7.  Metz .231                                       if latter, then intent
    8.  Rolly .232					must be shown [sic]
    9.  Dan .234				4.  mike childs .204 - who
    10. Gronowski .235          	                "knows (you) are guilty
    11. MikeL .238				        as hell"
    12. JaKe .243 (reverses .224)		5.  Waugamain .207 - who admits
    13. Big Game .244				    to ignoring evidence
    14. Roper .246				6.  Midnight .230 - Nuff said
    						7.  Bruce .236 - "I think it
    							(nonpayment) was all
    							just a ... simple 
    							college prank"
    						8.  Heiser - revenge vote
    
    
    

    Looks like we need to get out chair and chrank up the generator,
    the Slasher gonna fry !!   ;^)
    
    BG

YAWN........

    
    Much as I hate to say it, sounds Guilty as charged beyond any
    reasonable doubt.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       'The chair' won't bother the slasher none. He'll think it's an
    amusement park ride and put another quarter in!
                                     Denny

    36.677>If the Bronocs win or cover I have to carry that disgusting 
    36.677>"Homer,Plato,Voltaire,BobKnight" personal name for a week.
    
    Well, /Robey, you demanded a jury vote, got it, and were found 
    Guilty by a 2-1 margin.  Now what?  If you're honorable, if, then
    you'll wear the p_name for a week.  If.  I'm not gonna make any 
    more demands.
    
    I'm gonna assume that you're a welsh and that you were only "kidding"
    about putting it to a vote too.  From here on out you're a double-
    dealing mealy-mouth WELSH.
    
    MrT
    

    Except that I have eveidence that MrT is gulity of jury packing,
    unethical juror influence, and bribery ....
    
    Doc Midnight

    Perhaps a look at this situation from a different angle is in order...
    
    MoRT says he was done wrong because printing the Pname as Slasher did
    didn't fulfill his obligation.  Mr. T says that a good analogy is
    making a ten dollar wager then only paying $5!!!  His point being that
    the payment wasn't made in full!!!  I suggest that a better analogy was
    that a ten dollar wager was PAID IN FULL.....but that Slasher chose to
    pay with LOOSE CHANGE!!!!!!!  Thus...using T's logic re: full/partial
    payment, a case can be made for Slasher....that, although it may be
    ungentleman-like to pay off a loss with pennies, it is still,
    nonetheless, full payment!!!   Currency is currency, no matter what
    form it takes....and letters/words are letters/words, regardless of
    their form!!!
    
    I vote NOT GUILTY!!
    
    
    Nelly

    My apologies to 'Saw for my previous note....I 'replied' previous to
    getting to the notes re: P&P's and wagering discussions and such.....
    
    Did not mean to perpetuate an undesired topic!!!
    
    
    Nelly

In true National Football League fashion, there is "indisputable visual
evidence"

He's GUILTY !

Chap

    We ain't looking for any more jive-bull commentary from /Robitussin.
    We're looking for him to begin payment on his debt.  We don't expect
    him, however, to pay his debt.  He's a welsh.
    
    MrT

    
    I think MrT is not valuing the differences of a certain group of people
    who are inhabitants of western Great Britain, by inferring that /er is
    acting like them.  I mean we don't say Hawk drinks like an Irishman, do
    we?
    
    Brews

    Nice try, pro-cheater Bruce.  But I believe you speak a the Welsh,
    where I only talk about the welsh (he being /Daidbeat /Don)...
    
    MrT

       Very good point Nelly, I agree 100%. Payment was made. MorT just
    doesn't like the method.
                                      Denny

    
    I think you should just call him a daidbeat, to be truly P.C.
    
    Brews, a kinder, gentler noter

There's a real easy way to solve this dilemma ...

First one, Slasher or T, who correctly points out New Orleans on a map wins.

Bob Hunt

    Re: Welch
    
    You're offending the folks in Concawd too!

    Nelly, that was most highly execellent reasoning ! Therefor I must vote
    for justice and say that The SlasherMain is INNOCENT !

    And I gotta negate your vote and state that the payment was made with
    bogus three dollar bills and yet needs to be paid in full according to
    the terms as stated by / and accepted.  / is guilty.
    
    Actually any use of the money analogy fails, we're talking literal text
    as the currency of the bet.

     Let it alone, MrT...  You know  that /Daidbeat Don ain't gonna
    pay up.  You know,  he had the nerve to send me a note requesting
    we but p-names on the line for the SB...  I said no way !!
    
    BG
    

    I know, he keeps axeing me to roll out a p_name wager on the Bowl.
    Who'd do business with him now?  He's unreliable, he's dishonest,
    he's... /Daidbeat Don.
    
    MrT

>    He's unreliable, he's dishonest,
>    he's... /Daidbeat Don.
    
Just to clarify that this characterization is only in regards to
amusement purposes only wagers on personal names strings.

We wouldn't want to be casting unconditional apsersions in here, 
in case /Don's boss or Mom might be reading....


hth,
'Saw

    Why would /Daidbeat Don's mommy or boss be in here?  Trying to
    run down some Account Receivables maybe?
    
    MrT

>    You've obviously been noting in the post-Jim Dinsmore era.
    
With dINz, any key on the keyboard was fair game.

You never   knew how maaNY spaces you d get or linfeEds in his
tyPing.

AnD I don ' T see  

why T is makIng suCh a BIg fuss HA HA



over ths beT becuAsuE dInZ himsefl    Welched the Owrst In HEre.


hav e a    goo won!

    >everything he said about the Oilers, their fans, and Worn Moon
    
    I emphasize the po-si-tive and e-lim-i-nate the neg-a-tive buddy.
    
    Never said squat about the Toilers or their (sad-sack) fans.  I
    did posit some commentary about poor Worn, and indeed my analyses
    of him (worn, fade, threadbare) was borne out.
    
    Better to keep pushing your cockamammie theory that John (Big Bad
    John) self-inflicted that deep thigh bruise, Mac.  Unlike Worn, if
    John (Big Bad John) had been on the field for that 4th quarter his
    squad would be in Mpls. right now.
    
    MrT

>    I emphasize the po-si-tive and e-lim-i-nate the neg-a-tive buddy.
    
Then we won't be talking about /Don any more right?

We'll just forget the little negatives and we'll concentrate on the
positive --- Saving /Don from the Clutches of Chokedom -- Snuff Worship!


Sounds good to me!

'Saw

    Damned good thing that the Broncos won't be involved in another SB
    humilation, with Small John taking the Big Gaspipe ....
    
    Now THAT'S emphasizing the positive !
    
    Doc

    >Then we won't be talking about /Don any more right?
    
    I aim afraid the answer to this is no, 'Saw.  
    
    The upbeat tone I like to project does not extend to forgoing bad
    debts.
    
    MrT

Well, I think I've held back long enough.   Time to cast the ol' vote, I 
suppose.  Let's see now, what is it we're voting on ???   Oh, yeah, did the 
Slasher pay off his bet fairly and squarely ???

I think for the answer to this one we have to go to the official Notes 
etiquette guidelines which states that typing in ALL CAPITALS is the 
electronic equivalent of SHOUTING.   Thus, we can look at something like 
the following ...

	PLATO, HOMER, VOLTAIRE, bobknight 

... as the stringing together of three SHOUTS and 1 whisper.  Now, if you 
were standing nexted to the Slasher and he actually voiced these words in 
the manner of speaking, you would indeed be going ... Ow, Ow, Ow, Huh ???

So, in that light, I would have to say that I lean towards the GUILTY side 
of the ledger and cast my vote as such.   The spirit of the bet was not 
upheld.   

And, no, in all honesty, it has nothing to do with the Slasher's born-again 
Baby Blue Heel-ism.   I can overlook that and extend my sympathies towards 
anyone who feels so inclined toward sublime chokery.    No, I cast my 
GUILTY vote for another all too nudge nudge, wink wink reason.   And I 
ain't tellin ...

Is this a great country or what ???

Bob Hunt

      Give it up T.  This is old already.   Why don't you take it offline
    for a face to face confrontation?
    
    	Tim

    re: .289
    
    let Mr. T enjoy the once in a blue moon when it appears that a majority
    agree with him.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Oh, excuse me.  I thought you were talking about statements made
    about the Toilers that were later reflected poorly upon by the
    Bronco's injury-caused loss to the Bills (i.e., they took it like
    men, not like Toilers).
    
    MrT

Okay,

I have an idea.  In fact, it's almost worthy of its own topic.


Here's the deal:

		
	Since MrT is proud of having a zero PlateStacker, and
	since he implies that he is of above average strength,
	then I propose a face to face confrontation between
	the two "litigants".

	The confrontation will take place in a Sumo Wrestling
	ring.

	The contest will be even, because in Sumo Wrestling, the
	lighter weight categories go against higher classes as
	they win, so this would be an even bout in Sumo Terms.

	I offer my services as an Impartial Referee, or if that
	is not agreeable to both parties, then perhaps our own
	so-often impartial John Hendry could oblige...


Gentlemen, THERE is the challenge....


'Saw

    We've already had our confrontation, and I won.  It was concluded by
    a objective jury that /Don is /Daidbeat Don.  
    
    ALL THAT'S LEFT TO BE DONE NOW IS FOR OL' /DAIDBEAT TO PAY HIS DEBT.
    
    MrT

>    We've already had our confrontation, and I won.  It was concluded by
>    a objective jury that /Don is /Daidbeat Don.  
    
You're not afeared a meetin' Slasher in the ancient ring of Athletic
competition are you?

I mean, it would be like Clash of the Titans I bet....

    Hey Mac...  Good one 
    
     You Gotta love PJDN(tm)  Post Jim Dinsmore Noter
    
     I was rolling !!
    
    BG

    Lookit, I want him to pay what he owes me is all.  Either that or
    I want his credit yanked by, say, having dozens a concerned noters
    run my new p_name.  That would be fair punishment.  He stole from
    me and he's thumbing his nose at me and if you let him get away with
    this the quality a life in here goes down for each and every one a
    us.
    
    MrT

    re .296
    
    Whaddya talking.  I made myself eminently accessible since my return
    from that hell-hole they call Florida.
    
    MrT

>    this the quality a life in here goes down for each and every one a
>    us.
    
I dunno about you MrT, but the quality in here is certainly fine for
me.

I'm enjoying this, truly am.


Personally, I don't see what /Don did as being any more misdirecting
than a certain, minor "college prank"....  Course, I'm trying to
be impartial here....

8^)

'saw

    I understand the mods position - but I think its funny how all these
    folks are complaining about this getting boring, and for T to give it
    up, etc..
    
    We've had what, 3 or 4 seasons of a cabal of noters who have nothing
    better to do than make homophobic remarks about Bernie Kosar.  We've
    had zillions of notes with nothing more than woofs in it.  We've had a
    zillion notes about Lawwy Biwd, Wilt Chamberpump, - and I've been to
    blame more than once.  
    
    I've found it funny - first upon seeing  /Don's p-name and his obvious
    ploy - and then the reaction by T.   In time honored tradition, the
    Slash has been caught by the SPORTS public of not living up to his
    woid.
    
    JD

    And I hate Bobby Knight,  But a Wager Is a Wager and /Daidbeat ain't
    lived up to his end of the bargin...  Pay-up /Daidbeat  Don or forever
    hang your haid low in the knowledge that you welched on a wager there
    by compromising your values as a member of the human race...
    
    BG  ;^)

    
    /Daidbeat is guilty and Big Bad John is right behind Treadwell when it
    comes to reasons for losing the game.   Both facks need to be 
    acknowledged by the parties involved.
                        
    Pat (PJDN)
    

    
    >>     <<< Note 228.252 by QUASER::HUNTER "The Slasher Is A Welch" >>>
    >>                        -< Note The P-Name !!! >-

    
    >> Slasher,  I though you a better man that this.  Of all
    >>the people I thought might welch on a harmless wager you
    >>never came to mind.  JaKe, Childs, or even the Groaner,
                           ^^^^^
    >>But not you, Slasher.  I am very very disappointed in
    
      Pretty M'er F'in weak, Little'n'Lame, pretty weak.
    To insinuate that I would welch on any kind of wager hurts, really
    deep, it just hurts.  <sniff> <sniff>
    
    We'll just watch the p-names come nexted Monday and see who is or isn't
    a welcher.
    
    JaKe
    
    

>                   -< What the hail is "welching", anyway? >-

Well, I looked it up and the dictionary says it's a variant of Welsh.

One can only assume in this usage the the first Welcher was a Welsh guy
some years ago..,.

Not to cast aspersions on any Welsh dudes, though...


'saw    

    
    	Incorrect 'Saw.  "Welching" is the act of getting da frozen
    	juice outa the can.  I prefer sweetened grape.......
    
    	HTH,
    
    	Claybroon

Claybroon!



How goes it?  Are you working on your "faux" lats yet?


Welching could also refer to getting that very last little bit of
Welch's Grape Jelly outta da bottom o' da glass....


Hard Tried Hal(tm),
'Saw

    It is try VMS is is not case sensitive... hMmmmmM...
    

After further review...



The play stands as called:

		He's GUILTY !

Poor MrT,

Chap

To all those so sure that VMS does not recognize case, consider the
following:

	f$locate("Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight",slasher$p-name)

where 

	slasher$p-name = "PLATO,HOMER,VOLTAIRE,bobknight"

returns 

	f$length(slasher$p-name)

cuz it ain't located.

TTom

================================================================================
Note 228.294                    AFC Playoffs 1992                     294 of 314
ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "Don Robichaud = /Daidbeat Don"   6 lines  21-JAN-1992 17:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    We've already had our confrontation, and I won.  It was concluded by
>    a objective jury that /Don is /Daidbeat Don.  
    
>    ALL THAT'S LEFT TO BE DONE NOW IS FOR OL' /DAIDBEAT TO PAY HIS DEBT.
    
>    MrT
    
    
    Point 1:  MrT Agrees in the above note that the jury was objective, and
    terefore it seems to me he believes it ot be a fair jury.
    
    Point 2:  As in all cases of such importance, the jury must make a
    unanimous decision in order for the suspect to be judged guilty.
    
    Given these two facts, we have a hung jury (18-8, I think,  according
    to MrT's latest tally) and /Don is acquitted of all charges.  Now
    unless new evidence can be brought to light, /Don can not be recharged
    for the same crime.  None of that double jeopardy stuff.
    
    Bruce  

    
    	Not yet 'Saw.
    
    	I am shocked.  When's the last time Needle put in a note of over
    	2-3 lines? :*)
    
    	Good point Bruce.....if this were a jury.  Be a "main's main" T.
    	Everybody knows you're right.  Let it go and prove you're a 
    	bigger main than WelcherDon.
    
    	Claybroon

	Despite Brews' logical reply I was in fact going to change the 
P-name until I received a phone call from George Brooks, a.k.a. Doctor 
Midnight.  It seems this so called vote was rigged by MorT, and Doc's got 
the evidence to prove it.  Once again MorT you've soiled this notesfile 
just like Exxon soiled the beautiful Alaskan coast.  8^(

				/Don

    
    Sorry, Slash, but the part about the P-name being in quotes says to
    me that you did not comply in either the exactitude or spirit of the
    wager and the "payoff" therefrom.  I recommend the P-name be run on
    /Don's account for a week (seven consecutive days), plus an additional
    day for punititive and emotional damages.
    
    Dickstah
    

    More info please...
    

Gee, this whole thing is really, really dumb.

Like Brews said, it was a well-hung jury, and that means no conviction.
However, unlike Brews said, a well-hung jury is a mistrial, and the
person CAN be tried again in case of a mistrial.


All this for a silly little 32 character name appendage....  Like anyone
really cares about Plato (except she robbed a store), or that Homer Jones
used to smoke cigarettes, or that Ed Voltaire damn near electrocuted himself
in Auto Shop class with the arc welder....

I mean really!


I say on to more important things, like whether or not Poor MrT got
Box Seats for the Big Dance....


'Saw    

    Ah, but if MrT is gulity of a most henious abuse of the SPORTS judical
    system with Conspiracy to Commit Craven Pandering thrown in, he
    deserves the book throw at him, no ?

>    Ah, but if MrT is gulity of a most henious abuse of the SPORTS judical
>    system with Conspiracy to Commit Craven Pandering thrown in, he
>    deserves the book throw at him, no ?

Yeah, but you cain't throw the book at a guy in a wheelchair with a bottle
of Jack Daniels under his blanket...  Besides, I'm sure it was just a
leetle innocent college prank....

Too bad Dan's not around...he'd be loving this!


'Saw

>     <<< Note 228.323 by VLAB::RIEU "Playdoe,Homey,Voltchair,BobKnight" >>>

    
Voltchair...  I'm ROLLING!!!!!


'Saw    

    >T, of all people, should know about making sure all the dietails are
    >ironed out.  /Don [sic] may have violated the spirit blah blah blaah...
    
    Spirit schmearit.  The "details" were ironed oute with exact precision
    by /Daidbeat Don himself in his offer to bet.  What he promised and 
    what he delivered was violated not only in spirit but in actual content
    as specified by he himself.  This is not open to question, just read
    his own words.
    
    re .315
    
    Oh no you don't, Bruce.  /Daidbeat Don and I agreed to put it up to
    majority vote.  Our only argument was whether to open it up to all or
    empanel a august review board.  We did the latter and he lost (by my
    count 20-9 now) with all of the pro-cheaty votes either 1) ignorant
    of the facts, 2) openly admitting that he did it but..., and 3) or
    pleading incompetence (which is irrelevant in a tort).
    
    Why I made a second agreement with this greased pig I dunno.  First he
    jobs me on a debt and then he slithers into my mail box promising to 
    arbitrate the decision via a open vote.  I win the vote and, surprise!,
    /Daidbeat renegs yet a 2nd time.
    
    Sigh.
    
    Poor MrT

    >  Poor MrT
    
    yeah right! :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Well /Don, your apparent plan to show up T on the personal name thing
    may have backfired.  All you've done is to give him a means for
    avoiding fessing up to his predictions about BBJ and the Gstring.  He
    took Doc to the carpet for the title of his Houston Oiler note, yet is
    throwing up a smokescreen to cover his own failed predictions.

       Donks win SB in '93

    Mac, whatever predictions I may have allegedly made (have I been
    misintrepreted?) are irrelevant to this legal matter.  All that 
    matters is that /Daidbeat Don welshed a bet and then turned right
    around and reneged on an arbitration agreement.  He's been hanging
    around with ACCrook too long.
    
    As for this ring match, no way would I get into a ring with a guy
    as oily as /Daidbeat Don.  After stomping him I'd have to take the
    same type a shower I took the night I was deflowered, scrubbing and
    scrubbing and scrubbing until beet red trying to wash the sin away...
    
    Poor MrT

    
    >>as oily as /Daidbeat Don.  After stomping him I'd have to take the
    >>same type a shower I took the night I was deflowered, scrubbing and
    >>scrubbing and scrubbing until beet red trying to wash the sin away...
    
    
    C'mon "T", admit it,  it weren't the sin you was washing away, it was
    the CRABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    I feel so... violated.  So used.  My dignity as a human being has
    been stained as a result of my ill-advised exchanges with this
    unscrupulous hustler.  I feel raped.  And helpless too.  Not only 
    is this place missing a basic criminal justice system, there's no
    counseling resource I cain turn to.  What happened to me was wrong,
    so very wrong.  And now I must carry on with my life feeling cheapened, 
    degraded... debased.  
    
    Will the emotional scars ever heal?
    
    MrT
    

>    I feel so... violated.  So used.  My dignity as a human being has
>    been stained as a result of my ill-advised exchanges with this
>    unscrupulous hustler.  I feel raped.  And helpless too.  Not only 
>    is this place missing a basic criminal justice system, there's no
>    counseling resource I cain turn to.  What happened to me was wrong,
>    so very wrong.  And now I must carry on with my life feeling cheapened, 
>    degraded... debased.  
>    
>    Will the emotional scars ever heal?


Just keep repeating to yourself, over and over, much as the Good Witch
of the North Glinda told Dorothy to do:

	
	"It was a_innocent college prank. It was a_innocent college prank"





Take a couple of aspirin, and call us in da morning,
Dr. 'Saw    

    Ha ha ha, Frank.  I'll remind you that when I pulled my innocent
    college prank nobody lost anything and I voluntarily served my
    time, slowly easing back into the file via personal_name communiques,
    which is a unfortunate coincidence if you think about it.
    
    I'll also remind you that when a number of ACC (money-grubbing
    spectacle) Tourney contestants got robbed the the other Snuffy fan
    in here it was MrT who stepped forward and fixed the problem.
    
    But now I've been screwed and there's nobody for me to turn to.
    
    MrT

    
    GEE, I'm getting rather misty-eyed over the plight of this poor man.
    Somebody please pass me a kleenex.
    
    Dickstah
    

>    Ha ha ha, Frank.  I'll remind you that when I pulled my innocent

But MrT, you have to admit my reply was a good one 8^)

    
>    I'll also remind you that when a number of ACC (money-grubbing
>    spectacle) Tourney contestants got robbed the the other Snuffy fan
>    in here it was MrT who stepped forward and fixed the problem.

For which we are eternally grateful....
    

>    But now I've been screwed and there's nobody for me to turn to.
    
Oh, I wouldn't necessarily say that.  Your supporters still support
you.

And don't forget Lombardi's gem:

	The Glory is not in never falling, but in rising every
	time you fall...


'Saw

    Frank, you imply that I've fallen and cain't get up.  This isn't
    so.  I've been robbed by a oily operator of the most odious odor
    and even despite my record for civic service in here my neighbors,
    no doubt intimidated by this cheat, are averting their eyes.
    
    MrT

>    Frank, you imply that I've fallen and cain't get up.  This isn't
>    so.  I've been robbed by a oily operator of the most odious odor
>    and even despite my record for civic service in here my neighbors,
>    no doubt intimidated by this cheat, are averting their eyes.
    
Heinous, dude.


Whatever can we do?  Perhaps go double-or-nothing on the Bowl?
Perhaps that might be the wisest course, to restore to SPORTS
that era of good feeling which previously existed.


Perhaps a bet, the stipulations of which are laid out in a topic
in here, in great and minute detail, agreed upon by both parties and
a third impartial party, and perhaps a fourth beer party...

Then, when the big day arises, and the results are in, payment can
be made in the full light of day, under the eyes for all to see.


Would that make things all better????


'Saw

    re 1
    
    No, setting aside mistaken observations made by REK, Needle, and
    others, the bet was exactly defined in the cheat's own words, as
    documented in here by TTom.  Cain't be any more exactly than that.
    I'll not throw good money after bad and end up getting jobbed by
    this malefactor again.  
    
    The debt is owed and has been welshed, and he's getting away with it.
    
    Poor MrT

    MrT, you got off waaaaaay too easy over the Choke job that Little Boy
    Jawn did against the Bills, floating a SB bearth right into their
    hands.
    
    So stop whining, we have no sympathy for you until you take your
    medicine like a main !

       Great p-name Slasher! You do know he's on trial though?
                                    Denny

    	Not to worry Denny, the man's a genius.  Kudos Doc, for trying
    to bring the focus of this note back to where it belongs.
    
    				/Don

MrT

Nothing personal, but your remark about not wanting to throw good money
after bad sounds a little like you're skeert.

Where I come from, we'd have it out with /Don.  But since we cain't
use guns anymore, or set up booby traps on their houses and neat stuff
like that, we usually do it on the field of athletic competition.

You could do it with another bet.....


Just a thought....
'Saw

    	'Saw, I wouldn't bet with that vote fixer if my life depended
    on it!
    
    			   	/Don	

    I've evaded no medicine on the loss to the Bills resulting from 
    the 2nd half injury to John (Big Bad John).  I've been here, and,
    no surprisingly, no medicine has been proferred.
    
    But that's beside the point.  If I was wrong about a prediction
    (*if*) then fine.  But what we're looking at here with /Roachy is
    a bald-faced double welsh-job cheat.  He made a bet that exactly
    defined the pay-off and he welshed.  Then he agreed to abide by 
    a majority opinion (which he approached me with, I've got the mail 
    to prove it) and then welshed on that too.
    
    Crow cafe is one thing and debtor's prison is another.
    
    MrT

    Oh, I'd be happy to do another bet if /Roachy'd only make good on
    his debt and his promise to abide by the jury verdict.  You must
    concede that it's futile to bet with a /Roachy-poachy main.  Why
    bother.  If I won he'd only /Roach-out again, we know that to be
    a certainty.  So how could anything possibly be made even by entering
    into a bet with such a welsh.
    
    MrT

MrT,

I do admire your ability to make up names.

/Roachy-poachy has me splitting my sides.....  FWIW, I think it's b
better than /Daidbeat-Don....


hth,
'Saw

    Ol' /Daidbeat is developing another credibility gap of late, this one
    looking like one a them /Roach-sized oblong herpes scabs some guys 
    end up with after, er, entering into a "deal" with the wrong type
    person.  
    
    He's blabbing about vote-fixing payoffs, in so doing impugning the
    honesty of some very credible noters, and boasting about how he has
    evidence and he has none.
    
    Oh, he has a mail awright.  A mail from me to a group of people axeing
    to them to participate in the verdict vote and to look at the evidence
    and to vote Guilty based on that look cuz one need only compare the
    /Daidbeat's own bet-description and the supposed pay-off and understand
    that they didn't match.
    
    Soliciting participation in the jury verdict vote is not offering any
    form a payment or untoward influence.  He won't print the mail cuz
    there's no offer contained in it.  Unless the cheat doctored the mail,
    which with a main a his ilk is certainly possible.  But all this is 
    irrelevant, the evidence patently screams for a Guilty verdict.
    
    Congrat's, /Roachy.  You finally donned the dangling "G" string.  Only
    it was the wrong one.
    
    MrT                  

    >He did it again and in only 1 sentence!
    
    So then, Mac, you deny that John (Big Bad John) got injured and
    was forced to leave the game?
    
    MrT

    Watch it T or /Slasher could report you...

    >a true objective_analyst (kindred spirit to me and your former self, 
    >MrT)
    
    Typing error, Waugamain.  I believe you meant to say "to you and my
    former self, MrT" cuz it was YOU who looked the evidence entered by
    TTom that cold-busted nailed /Roachy-poachy-main red-tentacled and 
    went ahaid to cast a factless feckless pro-cheat "innocent" ballot.
    
    MrT

    Report me for what?  For being unsuspecting, honest, trusting?
    
    You're right, he might, cuz in his /Roachy mode a thinking he 
    no doubt views these things (from his view clinging, vertically,
    top the baseboard) as wrong.
    
    MrT

       Looks like MorT is becoming obsessed with this whole thing. Where's
    Dr. Tommy?
                                  Denny

    Well Mac, he did throw the pass for the winning TD, give him some
    credit...

    
    >>a true objective_analyst (kindred spirit to me and your former self, 
    >>MrT)
    
    >Typing error, Waugamain.  I believe you meant to say "to you and my
    >former self, MrT" cuz it was YOU who looked the evidence entered by
    >TTom that cold-busted nailed /Roachy-poachy-main red-tentacled and 
    >went ahaid to cast a factless feckless pro-cheat "innocent" ballot.
    
    That had absolutely nothing to do with sports analysis, MrT.  As I 
    clearly explained, I took /Don's p-string as the highest of 
    compliments to BobKnight, a commendation that I heartily endorsed.
    Was I wrong to proffer such an endorsement?
    
    You, however, have totally surrendered any credibility or any claim 
    as a_objective_analyst with your assessment ("Elway played extremely
    well") of the AFC championship game.
    
    glenn
     
       

    Hey you guys, take it to the junk note.  This is the Bad Debt/Welsher
    note!
    
    MrT

    We didn't axe what inner deep meaning English 101 bull you could
    dream up by looking at /Roachy-poachy's non-payment.  The question
    was whether his promised string was the same as the one he ran.
    [it wasn't]
    
    MrT

I'm no legal whiz, but don't BOTH parties help "solicit" the jury?


'Saw

Saw,

Better be careful about having them parties and soliciting and all.

TTom

    > We didn't axe what inner deep meaning English 101 bull you could
    > dream up by looking at /Roachy-poachy's non-payment.  The question
    > was whether his promised string was the same as the one he ran.
    > [it wasn't]
    
    We as jurors were given no explicit definition or interpretation of
    the law.  We were not instructed to make a literal comparison of
    character strings (as you know, the law is not interpreted literally
    anyway, or there would be no need for a jury in the first place).
    We were told that someone named /WelsherDon had reneged on a bet by
    running a p-string with an opposite *meaning* (not form or structure) 
    to the one you had requested and were asked to determine this
    /WelsherDon's guilt or innocence based on that premise.  Considering
    that over the week that the p-string ran no one even mentioned
    /WelsherDon's supposed transgression and the lack of any other 
    evidence that he had not fulfilled the spirit of his bargain (the
    spirit of the bargain being at the crux of your request), I had to 
    fulfill my duty by voting "innocent".  This /WelsherDon fellow had 
    done no wrong!
    
    glenn
     

    re: .361
    
    I thought soliciting was illegal everywhere in the US except some
    counties in Nevada.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

	Glenn, you cain be my mouf'piece anyday!

    
    Hey /Roachy, if you're happy to have a big slab of cow-chip bull
    stuck to your sole like the mumbo-jumbo in .369 I say good cuz 
    that's joe style (to the extent you have any).
    
    Welsher.  Cheat.  Daidbeat.  Reneger.  
    
    MrT

    Taking Glenn's point a little further, I think that Mr.T should be
    CONVICTED of Impersonating a_objective sports noter!!!!!  His failures
    to 'see it like it is' in regards to Elway's Championship performance
    provides greater proof of his guilt than his pathetic attempts to bring
    down an institution.../Daidbeat Don!!!
    
    I am no legal whiz myself, but it sure seems that, incentive provided
    or not, what T did was pure unaduterated jury tampering!!!  When has a
    prosecutor and/or witness ever been able to privately state his case to
    a jury or prospective juror(s)???  That most certainly would be cause
    for a mistrial in the real world!!!  And aren't taverns in the real
    world?  Thus, wouldn't an Electronic Tavern be in the real world? 
    Thus, is T not guilty of a heinous offense of his own?  Thus, shouldthe
    bailiff not whack his......Oh, never mind.....
    
    
    What was it I came in here to address anyway???????????????
    
    
    Nelly

    	MorT, your crooked cabal is cracking.

          
    Yeah, well I'm getting pretty tired of this petty trial junk, too, but
    a certain someone did state back in .128 that John Elway was going to
    gird his loins and that "crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden plates a
    crow" would be served up, but that same person reneged and refused to
    partake of the infested bird.  No sham trial is necessary or desired, 
    but a main's main would belly up...
    
    glenn
    

      Both T and / are "welchers" in a way.  No p_name and no crow= 100+
    senseless notes.  Why don't you guys do what 'Saw said,  and bet again
    so we can hear all this drivle next week.  It would be funny to have
    the shoe on the other foot!
    
    	Just my 2 cents worth,
    
    	Tim

    There was no trial.  Juries exist in a variety a forms outside the
    legal system (debates, contests, etc.), so the use of a jury form
    here, as requested by /Roachy-poachy and not me btw, in no way meant
    following a trial format with witnesses, judges, and so forth.  
    
    /Roachy reneged on two things, his debt and his promise to abide by
    the jury's decision.
    
    I have reneged on nothing.  I made a prediction and cuz a a injury
    fell short.  I have made myself available for any and all analyses a
    what happened in Buffalo.
    
    I will NOT enter into yet a third agreement with this oily operator
    cuz based on his demonstrated track "record" there is no prospect of
    him actually making good on any form of agreement.
    
    The solution to this inexusable situation is clear and immediately
    available no muss no fuss: let the welsher pay his debt.
    
    MrT

    Before John Amway's injury, he was 9-21-1 95 yards. 
    
    He sucked bilge water T .....
    
    In the first half, Denven was in Bill territory 4 times, came away with
    nothing.
    
    Mr Ed stunk T ....
    
    A thigh injury had little to do with that weenie screen pass that hit
    Carlton Bailey in the numbers with the game-winning TD pass.
    
    Little Miss John choked on his G-string, and his 'manly loins' were
    proved a sham.
    
    Now take your medicine before I make you watch replays of Super Bowls
    23 and 24.
    
    Doc

    I gots a better idea;
    
    
    
    
    
    "Bailiff!  Whack his pee pee"
    
    hop schlep schlop
    
    Kev
    

    	MrT(apeworm) the bet's been paid!

    > <<<NOTE 228.381 BY NAC::G_WAUGAMAN >>>
    > -< I want crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden plates a crow! >-
    
    You may be fackless feckless mix-up, Glenn, but by God at least you
    are main enough to admit to what you deserve!
    
    MrT
    

    Actually, Jeff Wright tipped the pass to Bailey, but both of them
    and Bruce Smith all read the pass...  the injury probably did affect
    his ability to make the tackle on Bailey though...

    
    >> <<<NOTE 228.381 BY NAC::G_WAUGAMAN >>>
    >> -< I want crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden plates a crow! >-
    
    > You may be fackless feckless mix-up, Glenn, but by God at least you
    > are main enough to admit to what you deserve!
    
    Jes' wanted to see if you were still on your toes, my good friend 
    (gawd you're predictable)!
    
    Hey, MrT, why don't we all bury the hatchet over this thing and get
    back to the good fight a honest, objective analysis.  Hell, we've got
    better things to get onto.  ACChris has been kidnapped or something
    (exscaped for long enough to fire off one faint warning shot), and 
    it's hardly received a notice...
    
    glenn
      
         

    Speaking of ACChris, T's use of the injury excuse sounds very familiar. 
    Buffalo was a hot team at the time too, weren't they?

>    Speaking of ACChris, T's use of the injury excuse sounds very familiar. 
>    Buffalo was a hot team at the time too, weren't they?


Yeah, and didn't the Broncos have finals the day before????



'SAw

Actually, I'm with Glen.


I think the big Bet controversy has gone on long enough.  We've wasted
enough disk space, had some good laughs (I especially liked "Teflon /Don"
and "/Roachie-Poachie"), but enough is enough.  It's been a week.

The AFC playoffs are over, the football season is almost over, and I'm 
predicting a big Virginia upset over a reeling UNC team.

So let's get our sorry hides over to the ACC note, and beat up ACC Chris
in absentia.....


Let's go.  AFC Playoff bar is closing gents, but I hear they haven't
had last call at the ACC Hoops bar yet....


'SAw

    You're right, Frank.  Let's go.  Let's shut this note down.  We've
    all grown bored with witnessing what a thief /Daidbeat Don is.  We
    have neither the patience or the time to help poor MrT recoup his
    losses.  Nothing more boring and tiring than a distraught robbery
    victim.  Let's all move along now, fun's over...
    
    Poor MrT 

>    You're right, Frank.  Let's go.  Let's shut this note down.  We've
>    all grown bored with witnessing what a thief /Daidbeat Don is.  We
>    have neither the patience or the time to help poor MrT recoup his
>    losses.  Nothing more boring and tiring than a distraught robbery
>    victim.  Let's all move along now, fun's over...
>    
>    Poor MrT 


Oh, I forgot to tell you MrT.  The Ornithologist said he wanted you to
stop by on the way to the ACC Bar.  He left a message here.  It said
something about "crow", but unfortunately, the bartender spilled some
beer and the rest of the ink ran.

Oh well, I'm sure you know what it's all about.  The Ornithologist is the
second door down on the left, just past the 7-11.....


hth,
'Saw

	Okay fellow ::SPORTSters rather than have Mr. SensiTive leave the 
notesfile and blame it on me (kind of like, "I'm leaving and taking my ball 
with me"), and having the rest of you harbor a grudge against me for it, 
I'll change the P-Name.  I still maintain my innocence.

				/Don
===========================================================================
From:	ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY  27-JAN-1992 14:32:19.93
To:	AXIS::ROBICHAUD
CC:	
Subj:	Official Notification (cc: To Personnel)

Don,

This is to notify you that I have entered recovery therapy for crime
victims.  My therapist, Ms. Inge Odegaard, has advised me that the only
way I can recover my dignity is to leave the file permanently until 
the debt is paid in full with no more tricks that may be upsetting to me.

I'm reaching out to you as a human being.  Please, pay the debt.  Otherwise
I will be forced to leave the file forever.

Hopefully,
Tom Shaughnessy

cc: DEC Personnel

    Wait a minute buddy.  According to our written agreement the p_name
    should read "Plato,Homer,Voltaire,BobKnight".
    
    MrT

       Very Manly and sensitive a you /Donald. Alan Alda would be proud!
                                          Denny

    Since when is not cheating effeminate?  I think /Don has acquitted
    himself admirably in this matter.  And yes, /Don, the p_name's fine
    now (imagine me tipping my golf cap to you).
    
    MrT

    	HEY, I'm only doing this to keep MorT from leaving and having
    his nattering nabobs of negativism hound me forever.
    
    				/Don

    What gives with /Don's obscene p-name anyhow?  I'm more than a tid
    miffed, to say the least.  :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Wait a minute, how come BobKnight's name comes last?
    
    I commend you Slasher, for being a main's main in taking this
    initiative.  No Swedish shrink-therapist for you, no sir...
    
    glenn
    

    Everybody's a smart-ass ain't they.  Well, if you wipe away all
    the cheaty lies ol' /Roach-o'-holic'd luv to roll out the simple
    fack a the matter is that he's DOING IT CUZ HE OWES ME FAIR AND
    SQUARE.
    
    MrT

>   <<< Note 228.404 by ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "BoringDistraughtRobberyVictim" >>>


Mr T,

If you're getting therapy from Dr. Inga, then perhaps you should change
Distraught in your p-name.  Perhaps "distended" might suit you more,
if it's the same Dr. Inga I've seen photos of in the medical journals
my brother reads.  Or perhaps "engorged".....


>    Everybody's a smart-ass ain't they.  Well, if you wipe away all
>    the cheaty lies ol' /Roach-o'-holic'd luv to roll out the simple
>    fack a the matter is that he's DOING IT CUZ HE OWES ME FAIR AND
>    SQUARE.
    

I like /Roachy-Poachy better.  It has a nicer lilt to it....



'Saw

    /Don, it would have been nice not having t around here clutering
    up the Sports_notefile....
    
    REK

>	NOT!  I'm doing it to stop your incessant whining and to get the 
>focus of ::SPORTS back to where it should be.  As Freud said, or maybe it 
>was Jung "let the baby have his bottle...".


I always thought it was Fred Flintstone....

hth,
'Saw

    Keep pumping in that beautiful p_name, /Roachy.  It musta really
    hurt to lose that bet, and by such a wide margin.   Know why you
    lost?  Cuz you started believing your own jive-bull and meanwhile
    MrT was sitting calmly back behind his control panel fine-tuning
    his objective analysis.
    
    MrT

    >Jung who said "let the baby have his bottle".
    
    And it was the lion who ruled the jungle who said, "let the winners
    feast and the losers watch the feast and wail like hyenas, and let
    the accountants balance the books while the lions sleep tonight.
    
    MrT

    
    Contrary to their reputaion as cowardly scavangers that feed off the
    remains of carcasses left by lions, hyenas are active and brave hunters
    whose main prey is more often healthy, adult wildebeest and zebras than
    sick or helpless animals.  They even will take on a half-ton African
    Buffalo.
    
    -Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts
    
    Accountants, however, are exactly what people say they are.
    
    -Dickstah
    

    Ain't cried, only demanded what was mine.  If that's whining then
    arrest me, I'm guilty.  As for you, you wanna talk about trash look
    in the mirror and start flapping those overused lips and wagging
    that armor-plated tongue and you've GOT your trash.
    
    MrT

    
    > CC: To Personnel
    
    Rollward!
    
    glenn
    

>                   -< just say no to wusses!  let him leave >-
                                      ^^^^^^^


Heard the greatest expression last friday on the radio:

	Wuss-bunny


hth,
'Saw
    

    >the accountants balance the books while the lions sleep tonight.
    
    Sorry, if you want to talk about the Lions in the championship game
    and their performance, please see the NFC playoff note...
    

    BTW - What's an objective sports ANALyst doing wearing a Donks hat to
    a Jets game and betting on the Donks?

    Forget the honesty, check out the moves...

    re: Hones Abe
    
    This has to be the most grating ad around at the moment. Minute it
    comes on is the time to hit the mute button or switch channels.
    
    The Crazy Met
    

    Bout time you paid up, Slasher...  I was begining to this you
    might have really lost all your morals...  Good Job !!
    
    BG

    
    To show my continues support for /er, I've changed my p_name to show
    wat /er really means.
    
    Brews

    
    I too am a /Don supporter.
    
    
    Steve

    May Bear I like that p_name a lot for it's respectful dramatic pause.
    Woulda done it myself but with my long ethnic surname my creative
    space is limited. Thanky.
    
    It's cute the way you pro-cheats h ave come out a the woodwork.  Just
    let the stinging fate that has befallen poor /er be a lesson to you all
    that it don't pay to mess with a mucho-macho-main like MrT!
    
    MrT

>    that it don't pay to mess with a mucho-macho-main like MrT!
    
MrT,

Why only yesterday you were a distraught shell of a main, Poor MrT.

That therapy must've helped quite a bit!!!!


'Saw

    Dr. Inga is wonderful, 'Saw.  She's 6-1 barefoot and might be a  
    feminist in riless glasses but a loving feminist and when she
    looks down on me laying on that couch with that blue eyes and blonde
    hair I admit it I just squirm.
    
    But she didn't make me better.  Good old fashione JUSTICE did.
    
    MrT

>    Dr. Inga is wonderful, 'Saw.  She's 6-1 barefoot and might be a  
>    feminist in riless glasses but a loving feminist and when she
>    looks down on me laying on that couch with that blue eyes and blonde
>    hair I admit it I just squirm.
    
Yes.  That's the one from the medical journal.

At least the periodical my brother was readying had a medical journal
cover.  Some of the photos showed some amazing anatomy however...

HMMMM.  Might be time for some Hard Copy investigation!


8^)

'Saw

    And the more I work with Dr. Inga the more similarity I see between
    her and Bob, for she too is a strict disciplinarian who stresses the
    fundamentals!
    
    MrT

	Now for more justice, Mr.T will drop the facade and excuses
	about the Donks not_so_excellent loss to Buffalo and step up
	to a plate of crow, just as he himself said he would.  He will
	prove, just as /Don has, that he is not a welcher and that he
	is a man of his word.

	Or will he ?

    	MrT(ranslucent), you do in fact remind me of a lion.  The one
    that Dorothy and Toto came across in the Wizard of Oz.
    
    				/Don

    What crow, Rolly?
    
    I've made myself abundantly accessible right here in the 228 note
    and all you guys have mustered up the courage to do is come sidling
    up to me haids flinching and then bleating out contralto whines about
    how I ain't munching.  Crow must be FED babee, it's PT babeeee (i.e.,
    plate time).  Never backed down from a plate appearance and nobody
    works the count like MrT.
    
    You guys are complaining cuz I ain't doing your job for you?  Hey,
    could it be that you don't wanna git too close, that just maybe you
    are skeert a lions?
    
    MrT 

	Hey MorT, Hulk Hogan is all talk and no action.  He's the living 
embodiment of hype over substance.  He can't 'rassle a lick and the only 
thing he's good at is making faces when he gets beat up.  He's...  HEY, 
maybe you are a Hulkamaniac.

				/Don

    T, everytime the plate has been profferred you threw up another /Don
    smokescreen.

One night he actually used the small package!

And what of my main man, The UUUUUULllllltttttimate Warrior?


'Saw

      Hulk is a slug,  and so is Flair.  LOD would kick their #$^$% all
    over the ring.
    
    	Tim

    Wrasslin is to be discussed in the Wrasslin conference.  With input
    from noters it was decided that Wrasslin was even too much junk for the
    Junk Note.

    
    I think Wrasslin is OK in this note.  Its only the AFC note, anyway. 
    It's not like we're ruining something important like the Junk Note or
    the LA Law note.

    Careful T with that lion-hyena comp a while back.
    
    From your zoological studies, you should recall that the hyena-lion
    relationship is highly antagonistic, a high-class struggle between
    two socially-hierarchical,competing species, with no clear dominance.
    The lion might be king(more like queen) in legend and myth, but the
    hyena scoffs at such assumption. The jury is steel out.
    
    MikeL
    

    Yeah, the hyena maintains parity by ganging up 5-1 on the noble
    beasts, sorta like with poor MrT in *this* jungle.  Also, the lion 
    (in the village the quiet village the li-onnnn sleee-eeps to-niiiight 
    in the village the jungle village the li-onnn sleee-eeps to-niiiIIght !!) 
    gets to eat first.
    
    re: Big Mac
    
    Oh no you don't.  I had been robbed and righting that wrong was my
    priority.  If you were impatient for my objective analysis a the
    Broncs vs. Bills game you shoulda busted the malefactor up front
    instead a forcing me to bring him into line.
    
    MrT

    But when nature deprives you of physical stature, you use
    whatever means it takes. Laws of the jungle. SOME lions git to eat
    first, others are chased away by the resourceful hyena. Simple
    maintaining parity. Yip,Yip,Yip!   8^)
    
    MikeL
     

    T, now that the alleged wrong has been righted are you going to get
    down to business?

I don't know about Griese or Knight, but I know that Butkus was GREAT!

The middle linebacker has really gone the way of the dinosaur lately, 
with few teams running a 4-3.  But man, in the days of Butkus, and
Nitschke -- man oh man.

Gave the words "lay some hurtin' on ya" a whole new meaning...


'Saw

    Yeah, yuk it up Midnight but you're conveniently "overlooking" two
    points about the Wayans bros, er, presentation:
    
    1) Gay boy #2 was wearing an Oilers shirt (without the markings for
       legal reasons but clearly the Oilers' effeminate colors),
    
    2) They considered the ultimate football matchup the Packers at the
       Oilers.
    
    Haw haw haw...
    
    MrT

    Well how 'bout that.  There was no crow after all.
    
    MrT

    You're not going to worm out of it that easily, T.  Folks have been
    servin' it up for you all along while you pulled that /Don is a welcher
    smoke screen.

    	Careful Mac, we don't want MrT(empestuous) to storm out of the
    notesfile and into the arms of Ms. Odegaard, do we?
    
    				/Don

    Oh quit it with the turn-the-table jive-bull /Roach-poach.  You 
    are paying the debt cuz you owed it.  The fact that I sought help
    as a robbery victim was my own option.  You'd lay down for Dr.
    Inga too.
    
    As for YOU Mac, I ain't seen no properly prepared crow, only seed
    some loose huffing and puffing about how John (Big Bad John) "failed"
    to serve up a 300 yard 4 touchdown game in a game totally dominated
    by defense is all.
    
    MrT

    
   MrT,

   I think what we are looking for is something like an earlier note of yours.

   Pat 

   8^)

  



              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 228.44                     AFC Playoffs 1992                      44 of 462
ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "John"                            7 lines   6-JAN-1992 12:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The pressure was on, the drama almost too much to bear, the clock
    running out, and the clutch was down...
    
    and Big John delivered.  Have a nice vacation Toilers!  Big John
    delivered.  Big Bad John.
    
    MrT


Something like...

One week later...

    The pressure was on, the drama almost too much to bear, No TD's had been 
    scored and the clutch was down....

   

    and Big John delivered a big fat interception. Have a nice vacation
    Bronco's  Big John delivered.  Big Bad John. 

MrT...

I have Chef Armand working on it right now.  Would you like that crow
prepare au jus, or nouvelle cuisine, or with potatoes and carrots just
like Grandma used to make.

Armand is ready willing and able to prepare the finest selections in 
crow.


And my I introduce our wine steward Pierre.  He will assist you in choosing
the finest vintage to suit your meal and your palate.


Would you care for an appetizer?

    Don't bother, 'Saw.  Contrary to T's belief the crow was served up a
    couple of weeks ago.  Let him eat it cold and in the manner in which he
    was going to serve it up.  Rotten, stinking and festering were the
    preparation techniques he was going to use, I believe.

>    Don't bother, 'Saw.  Contrary to T's belief the crow was served up a
>    couple of weeks ago.  Let him eat it cold and in the manner in which he
>    was going to serve it up.  Rotten, stinking and festering were the
>    preparation techniques he was going to use, I believe.


Culinary question:

	Were the maggots on the side?  Or spread throughout?



'Saw

    
    Forget about serving up the crow.  Let MrT go; it's not worth it.
    Credibility need not be sacrificed so openly, so publicly; it can 
    be surrendered with nary a word spoken from those who were defrauded
    and deceived...
    
    glenn
    

    Saw, give T some crow quiche ! It seems rather appropos ...

    All I seed in here were foregone conclusions that John (Big Bad 
    John) blew the game.  Perhaps you were watching a different game
    than the one on MrT's TV?  Dunno, but I tell you this: 
    
    * Never came back after that game and claimed that John (Big Bad
      John) had donned the dangling "G" string.  No I did not.
    
    * John (Big Bad John) only played half a game cuz a a injury.  So
      all a you who foist whole game responsibility on him, shame on
      you.
    
    * John (Big Bad John) cain't be held responsible for Treadpoor's 
      gag-job.
    
    * I'm sure that if John (Big Bad John) had played the whole game it
      woulda been two-minute drill time. 
    
    Too bad he got hurt, cuz then we coulda apportioned the crow to the
    deserving ones.  But we'll never know what He coulda done; and you'll
    never get to do the service.
    
    Face it: No crow has been properly prepared or served here.  All this
    chest-thumping assumes that no tip-top QB has ever thrown a INT (in a
    game of constant pressure) or participated in a low-scoring struggle or
    been injured.
    
    MrT

                    
    Let the record speak for itself:
    
    
              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 232.56             The Official 1992 Superbowl Note               56 of 281
ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "John (Big Bad John)"            22 lines  17-JAN-1992 11:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    .
    .
    .
    As it was John (Big Bad John) piloted his team extremely well against a 
    great defense... 
    .
    .
    .
    

    >Which it it, T????
    
    Both.  John (Big Bad John) gets credit for getting his team in scoring
    position against both the Oilies and the Bills.  Treadwell did well
    against the Oilies and gets credit for that; Treadpoor came off like
    a Dean Smif' imitation against the Bills and gets debit for that.
    
    MrT

    
    
    The fact remains that John (Big Bad John) was mediocre BEFORE his
    injury against the Bills.   Furthermore HIS mistake, THE INTERCEPTION
    was second only to Treadwell's incompetency as the reason the Broncos
    losted the game.
    
    Was John great all year and vs the Toilers ?  - Yes
    
    Was John mediocre and did his mistake contribute to the loss - YES 
    
    Even John, like a main admitted he didn't play well.  He cain admit
    it, and it was probably good for his soul.  Perhaps you should bring 
    this up with Dr Inga.  Its ok T to admit your hero failed, its ok, 
    don't worry about it, everything will be allright....... poor MrT.
    
    Pat

    
    
    Ok  - most of the year
    

    What was the score when Elway left the game?
    

    So I made a bold prediction that didn't turn out.  Is this a crime?
    
    Given that we're talking John (Big Bad John), a QB famous for his
    4th quarter comebacks, the game was inconclusive cuz he MISSED the
    final stanza.
    
    The game was on the road; his O-line was letting him get chased; he
    moved his team but not into the zone, but neither did Jim Kelly; yes
    Kubiak was there when the team started moving but that was more due to
    adjustments made by the team and the O-lines ability to start putting
    some blocks on people; the INT wouldn't have happened had he not been
    under such constant pressure, the screen pass was being used in response
    to blockers' failure to control the blitzes, yes it was a bad pass but
    nobody's perfect not even Joe Montana/Dan Marino; if John (Big Bad John)
    had been there in the 4th he woulda done much better than Kubiak (who
    cain't leave the pocket) and woulda hurt them bad so bad bad just like
    he did against the Oilers...
    
    MrT

    In-da-jungle-da-mighty-jungle-da-lion-BLEETS-tonight
    

    So finally we cain agree, Big Mac:
    
    1) John (Big Bad John) wasn't so lucky.  He was hurt instead.
    
    2) Marino & Elway in their primes won games instead... of being
       injured.  But not always, Joe got dinged by the Giants last
       year in the NFC Title game and... lost the game instead.
    
    A parallel?
    
    MrT

    re .480
    
    Sounds like we need to call Shaughnessy ...
    
    
    
    ACC-T !
    
    HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA !!!!!!!

    I was only applying your very own points by logical extension to
    John (Big Bad John).  If you disagree with yourself, fine by me.
    
    MrT

      MrT,  Kubiak did role outta the pocket 2-3 times outta his 12
    attempts.  He also scrabbled for something like 16 yards total.
    
      Give it a rest man,  the Broncos will be back.
    
    	Tim

    >Give it a rest man,
    
    You talking to me?  You talking to *me*?!  
    
    Talk to Big Mac and /Roacher and Midnight and Frank and all these
    troublemakers who've chasing me around for two weeks now.
    
    I stand ready to lay this "issue" to rest.  They were so very anxious
    to serve up some crow but came forth only with a empty plate (which
    they're now trying to crack me over the haid with).
    
    MrT

    
     Boy,  This is really getting old...  Very very very OLD !!
    
    BG (one of the worst offenders of JN'ing)
    
    P.s.  Glad I'm dropping outta here soon...  Hope you are too !!   ;^)

      Yeh I'm talking to T.  If you quit,  they will.
    
      I'm with you Jack,  I usually get out of this until football season.
    
      Baseball = Boring
    
      Basketball = Boring to talk about.  Just watch the last 2 minutes.
    
      Hockey = ok
    
      Anything college = yawn city.
    
      I like to play baseball & hoops,  but man its sucks watching it at
    times!!!
    
    	Tim

    Ok ok, Mac.  Whaddya want.  I may not like the preparation of the
    dish, but fer chrissakes serve it up and I'll eat.
    
    Let's get it over with.
    
    MrT

     
    > Ok ok, Mac.  Whaddya want.  I may not like the preparation of the
    > dish, but fer chrissakes serve it up and I'll eat.
    
    I nominate this suggestion:
    
              <<< CAM::$1$DUA5:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 228.128                    AFC Playoffs 1992                     128 of 492
ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSY "John (Big Bad John)"            13 lines  10-JAN-1992 16:58
                               -< my prediction >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    .
    .
    .
    Crow, rotten stinking vermin-ridden heaping plates a crow, will be 
    served up to the intellectually impoverished in here welfare kitchen-
    style.
    
    MrT

    Substituting John Elway's name for Warren Moon's in that review of Moon
    following the Houston Denver game would be a good start (and would be
    more factual as well).
    
    Stop hiding behind the injury excuse and just admit that John didn't
    get it done.
    
    Stop the Bills didn't win it, John got hurt stuff.

    Well, serve it up, then.  Do you expect *me* to do YOUR job for
    you?   Heaping plates of stinking rotten vermin-ridden crow it
    is then.  I sit here napkin on knife and fork at the ready.
    
    Where do we start?
    
    MrT

       I think somebody should serve T a glass of fine Muscatel first of
    all.
                                        Denny

       Okay, Thunderbird will do then. That's definitely an 'anytime' wine!
                                       Denny

    Serve him the sweetest Malaga you can find, make sure it is thick as
    well. That wine goes with nothing which conversely means that it goes
    with anything. You guys are being WAY to easy on MrT
    
    The Crazy Met
    

       Old Crow would be excellent as a before dinner cocktail.
                                 Denny

    If you guys are gonna feed me bad wine Mouton Cadet red is as low
    as I will go.  Otherwise the service is off.
    
    MrT

Hey, how 'bout some Ernest and Julio Gallo.

BUY American!


8^)

'Saw

    Where's my crow.  Are you people gonna make me BEG for it?!  Has
    gotten to the point where a guy's gotta serve himself!?
    
    MrT

       Crow Cafe has always been self serve. You expect to be wrong and
    waited on too!?
                                     Denny

    The crow has been on the table for a couple of weeks now.  What're you
    waiting for?

    Make MorT eat this crow:
    
    Dean > Bob.
    
    That oughta humble him a notch or two!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

       Might if it were true Chris, but it's not.
                                         Denny

                          
    > Where's my crow.  Are you people gonna make me BEG for it?!  Has
    > gotten to the point where a guy's gotta serve himself!?
    
    Here you go, little T, open wide... no, no, don't spit it out... that's 
    a good boy... what's that little crawly thing?... why that's just Mr.
    Glowworm come to visit... make you grow up big and strong... good boy...
    
    glenn
    

    John Elway has once again let the Orange & Blue faithful down at
    the altar.  True, the Bronks always seem to feature a major weakness
    in the years they make it a run, and true Elway has been amazing in
    some of the AFC Title games, but enough is enough.
    
    This year he didn't even pull his magic in the AFC Title game.  He
    failed to come through when the clutch was down and that's how one
    defines himself as Great (Dean Smif' being the only exception to this
    revered rule).                           
    
    Elway was inaccurate and inconsistent and cost his squad and oh gawd
    who cares what does it matter if they had made it to Minneapolis he
    only woulda pulled his usual boner and woulda gagged like a Dean Smif'
    with his jaws unhooked like he did against Washington and the 9ers and
    we all know the story...

    
    T, that was the biggest heapin' helpin' of crow I've ever seen 
    consumed at one sitting.  A mainly hungry-main portion if I ever
    saw one.  I am in awe of your courage.  You have my highest respect
    on this one.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Very impressive 'T.  I'm sure that emotional healing will be fast
    coming after you've finished digesting the crow.
    
    :-)
    
    WILDCAT

    That really wasn't so hard now, was it?  I don't know why it had to
    take as long as it did.

That was great, T.  I especially enjoyed the double Snuff whack.

Bob Hunt

    T, let me buy the Louis XIII, I insist!
    
    Hawk
    
    P.S.  Dickster, re: your p_name, wasn't that commercial a riot?!
    

    Give mrt (lower case mandatory) some Ripple in a Dixie cup ... and his
    crow doesn't have to be served on a plate. Make 'em eat it off da
    floor!
    
    And I'll plant my size 9 in his backside so that his nose doesn't leave
    the plate ... whadda think guys ?

    OH WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET OUT A HERE!  I FEEL SO CHEAP SO USED 
    IT'S LIKE I BEEN GANG-BANGED AND YOU ALL ARE STANDING IN THE DOORWAY
    SMIRKING LIKE FRATERNITY BROS WITH BEERS IN YOUR HANDS MAKING SNIDE
    REMARKS AND COMMENTATING AND I'M LAYING HERE WITH MY PANTS AROUND
    MY ANKLES ALL SORE AND HURTY JUST LEAVE ME ALONE GO AWAY.

    
    I think that helping of crow cain only be justified if followed by
    chugging a bottle of MAD DOG 20-20!!!!!1
    
    
    >>only woulda pulled his usual boner and woulda gagged like a Dean Smif'
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    "T", you talking about Elway or Bernice Kosar here?????
    
    (8^)*      (8^0*
    
    JaKe
    

    Doc -
    
    Size 9?  Size 9?  BAAAHHAAAAAHAAAA?  You are small, ain't ya!  :-)
    
    JD

       You shoulda just "laid back and enjoyed it" MorT.
                                            Denny