Conference 7.286::sports_91

    Segie Bubka of the CCCP broke his own indoor Pole Vault record on
    Saturday, vaulting 20'1".  Bubka is had cleard 20' for the record
    earlier in the week.
    
    JD

    Kenya won both the men's and women't world cross championships Sunday
    at Antwerpp, Belgium.
    
    Khalid Skah of Morocco defended his championship, winning the men's
    race (11,764 meters) in 33:53, one second aahead of Kenyan teammates
    Moses Tanuie and Simon Karori.
    
    Men's Individual Results:
    
    1.   Skah, Morocco 33:53
    2.   Tanuie, Kenya 33:54
    3.   Karori, Kenya 33:54
    4.   Chelimo, Kenya 33:57
    5.   Ondoro, Kenya  33:57
    
    
    Men's team scores:  Kenya 38 points, Ethiopia 104, Spain 198
    
    In the women's race, Lynn Jennings (USA) defended her champioship,
    winning in a time of 20:24 over the 6,425 meter course.  
    
    Women's Indidual Results:
    
    1.  Jennings, USA  20:24
    2.  Deratu, Ethiopia 20:27
    3.  McColgan, UK   20:28
    4.  Luchia, Kenya  20:29
    5.  Ngotho, Kenya  20:30
    
    
    Women's Team Results:
    
    1.  Kenya 36, 2. Ethiopia, 36, 3. CCCP 48, 4. SA 77
    
    
    JD

RE: X-country championships

Local favorite Lynn Jennings' accomplishments have been considerable over the 
past year+.  She hopes next year to become the first (I think) person to win the 
championship three years in a row.

To those of you in the east, the U.S. x-c championships will be in Boston's 
Franklin Park in November, and the 1992 world championships will be at the same site
in March.  Should be a rare opportunity to see the best runners in the world 
gathered in one spot.

=Bob=

BTW - JD thanks for reopening this topic for this version of ::SPORTS.
      The "crew" (or what's left of it) will miss you at the Boston Marathon 
      this year.

    Bob,
    
    How's training?  I wouldn't be able to run even if I planned to -
    injured again ;-(
    
    Jennings has been hot - I hope she can keep the streak up.
    
    JD

JD 

Sorry to hear you are injured - not another stress fracture is it?

Training has gone ok, haven't done the mileage I've done in the past.  I'll 
be happy with my ususal sub-3 hours. 

Others:

Anybody else planning on running/watching this year's Boston Marathon?

=Bob=

    Bob,
    
    'Broke' the sesamoids on my left foot (little bones that stick out of
    the big toe metatarsal near the ball of the foot) - one of those
    injuries that really bum you out.  Can't push off when running or
    walking, basically idling you.  Nothing can be done for it but rest and
    wearing a wooden flat-bottom shoe, and hoping.  In recurring cases,
    they can operate.  
    
    Hopefully I'll be back in training in May.  Portland is the end of
    September - have to be ready for then.
    
    JD

  >>Nothing can be done for it but rest and
  >>wearing a wooden flat-bottom shoe, and hoping. 


Sound like one of those Yuppy problems JD. 

A real man would have those suckers cut off and then he'd learn to run with 
some of those gang related shoes. :*)  

>Sound like one of those Yuppy problems JD. 
>
>A real man would have those suckers cut off and then he'd learn to run with 
>some of those gang related shoes. :*)  


Rugby players would tape it up, grin and bear it, and take it out
on their opposite number 8^) 8^)

'Saw

    At the University of Florida this past weekend, athletes from 10
    universities -- in town for the 48th annual Florida Relays -- held the
    second annual Nude Relays.
    
    Paticipants reported that about 45 men and women ran in the contest at
    the unlit track.  Though no official times were kept, Villanova
    reportedly took the match.
    
    UofF President John Lombardi had the following to say when confronted
    with the issue:
    
    "In the range of crises that confront us, I can't say that I put that
    at the top of my priority list."
    
    "I'm sure there's something wrong with it, but I haven't found out what
    it is yet."
    
    Then Lombardi went on to say that the university president should have
    at least been invited.  "If I had known, I would have watched.  Nobody
    informed me about this."
    
    "Next year I'll be more vigilant.  Maybe they'll issue me an
    invitation.  I don't know what I'd run, but I'd come and watch."
    
    	--dan'l

Nothin' like nudin' up for a run.....

Other fine and sanctioned Nude Sports are Nude Co-Ed Rugby (I've got
a t-shirt to prove it) and Nude Lacrosse.

For those less into Nude Contact sports, there's always Nude Twister,
and Nude Pinochle...


And all you other guys:

		Nude Up, and AIR OUT!


'Saw

    Nude relays are a part of the lore of college track and field.  The
    Penn Relays, the Drake Relays and others also have had 'nude' relays.
    
    Let me tell ya - its kinda scary standing there in the dark, with
    someone coming towards ya, getting ready to hand off a baton - gotsa
    make sure you grab the right thing, and on the other end of your relay
    leg, that the next team member grabs the right thing.  Actually, many
    times they are not totally nude relays - most folks wear their track
    shoes.....
    
    JD

    Here's another swimming story.  (At least my swimming stories are more
    interesting and infrequent than the rugby stories.  8-))
    
    Instead of AM practices at Ohio U, we used to have midnight workouts. 
    (Believe it or not, we got more sleep that way.)  Anyway, these
    practices were open to the public and anytime girls would walk in and
    sit in the stands to watch, we all used to do the nudie.  The girls
    used to stick around and giggle...until, on que, we all turned over and
    swam backstroke.  Never failed to either drive them away or get a
    standing ovation.  We had many brave co-eds visiting our midnight
    workouts once word got out.
    
    We also had a pool with no 10 meter tower.  We considered teams that
    had towers as too high class for us so it was tradition to
    do a nudie follow the leader off their tower during pre-meet
    warmups when we were the visiting team.  Talk about protecting your
    filberts in a most precarious situation!  For some reason, we always
    ended up with the other team's women after the meet...can't imagine
    why.
    
    	--dan'l

>    Here's another swimming story.  (At least my swimming stories are more
>    interesting and infrequent than the rugby stories.  8-))
    
Et tu, dan'l?

Hey, if they had full contact swimming, where you could try to drown
the other guy, and make him bleed, then maybe I'd watch it [many ;^)]

'Saw

    ONe thing - you *never* did hurdling during nudie relays!!!
    
    At one Penn Relays, the nudies were on Friday night - and since we
    didnt' want to go in to the Penn track, we all went to a 'practice'
    facility for the relays - a local high school if I remember correctly
    (King of Prussia, PA rings a bell....)
    
    Anyway, there were a few different teams there, and we were doing the
    nudie relay thing, when we started to get an audience.  Seems the
    locals were having a prom, word got out, and they came to watch.  Ended
    up running away from the local police and trying to find our ways back
    to the hotels we were staying in.  Very interesting night...
    
    JD

'Saw -

Think "water polo"

A&W

    Well, here's a list of the 1991 world records for indoor track and
    field.
    
    Men:
    
    60 meter - 6.48 Leroy Burrell (USA)
    1500 M   - 3:34.16 Noureddine Morceli (Algeria)
    5000 M Walk - 18:23.55 Mikhail Shchennikov (USSR)
    4x200M Relay - 1:22.11 Great Britian
    4x400M Relay - 3:03.05 Germany
    Pole Vault   - 20'1/2" (6.11M) Sergey Bubka (USSR)
    Weight Throw - 79' 3 3/4" (24.17 M) Lance Deal (USA)
    
    
    Women:
    
    200M 22.24 Merlene Ottey (Jamaica)
    3000m walk - 11:50.90  Beate Anders (Germany)
    4x100m Relay - 3:27.22 Germany
    5000M - 15:13.72 Uta Pippig (Germany)
    Triple Jump - 47' 4 1/2" (14.44 M) Inessa Kravets (USSR)
    
    JD

Are the nude records significantly higher or lower than these
clothed records?

    Last month the NCAA Championships were held in Indianapolis.
    
    Men's 
    
    Arkansas won its 8th straight indoor title, scoring 24 points to runner
    us Georgetown's 27.  Washington State (24), Iowa State (23), George
    Mason & Indiana (20 each), Baylor (17), BYU (16), and Eastern Michigan
    and Mississippi (14 each) rounded out the top ten teams (60 teams
    scored in all)
    
    Individual Champs:
    
    55M - Augustine Olobia* (Wash. State) 6.17  (Rockey Ishmail 2nd)
    200M - Frank Fredericks* (BYU) 20.68
    400M - Gabriel Luke (RIce) 46.52
    800M - George Kersh - (George Mason) 1:46.19 (American College Record)
    Mile - Bob Kennedy (Indiana) 3:58.11
    3000M - Ruben Reina (Arkansas) 7:50.99
    5000M - Jonah Koech* (Iowa State) 13:36.64
    55M Hurdles - Tony Li* (Wash State) 7.08
    4x400m relay - Baylor (Fredericks,Williams,Green,MIller) 3:07.74
    4x800m Relay - Georgetown (Holman,Jasper,Kenah,Frey) 7:19.86 (Amer.record)
    
    High Jump - Tony Barton (George Mason) 7'6 1/2"
    Pole Vault - Istvan Bagyula* (George Mason) 19' 3/4"
    Long Jump - Alan Turner (Indiana) 26' 5 /12"
    Triple Jump - Eugene Green* (Boise State) 53' 5 /12 "
    Shot Put - Eric Bergreen - UCLA 62' 10 1/2"
    Weight Throw - Christophe Epalle* 74' 7" (SMU)
    
    JD
    

    
    I've heard of the shotput, the hammer, and the discus, but what is this
    generic "weight throw" that is listed?
    
    Dickstah
    

>    I've heard of the shotput, the hammer, and the discus, but what is this
>    generic "weight throw" that is listed?
    
It's a euphemism for dwarf tossing......8^)    

    Rats 'Saw, ya beat me to it!
    
    ;*(
    
    JD, methinks a_error has been made with your listing of world records.
    Now I'm not about to question an expert, scholarship, huge-lat, 
    hairy faced manly man like yourself but somehow the wimmins
    "4x100mm" record of 3:27.xx appears to be a tad on the slow
    side; in fact, it appears to qualify for the [-]MPH scale.
    
    Was the team made up of Roseannes?????
    
    many ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    The weight throw is a 35 pound weight with a handle attached to it. 
    The hammer is a lighter weight ball and has a chain attached to it and
    then the handle.
    
    John

What is really interesting is to see some of the competitors
who compete in Scottish games.  The events are very similar to
the field events, with stone throwing similar to shot put (they use
8 pound and 16 pond stones), and the hammer throw is the same.

One even is a weight attached to a flexible stick, which is thrown
like the hammer I believe.

My favorite, which has no parallel in T&F is the caber toss...


Nothing like the Games.  Have some beers, eat a bridie or a pork pie,
listen to the pipes and watch some very manly men take part in the
weight events....

'Saw

    Dickstah,
    
    Mr. Hendry is correct.  The weight throw is an indoor event - can't
    throw the discus or hammer cuz they go too far.
    
    Kev:  oops - musta meant 4x400m....
    
    JD

    JD,
    I knew that but I figgered the non t&F folks wuudn't!
    
    ;-)
    
    Kev
    

    Francie Larrieu SMith, 38, set the US 10,000 meter record with a
    31:28.92 at the Texas Relays in Austin, bettering the old mark, held by
    Mary Decker Slaney, by 6 seconds.  Smith set her first US mark at the
    age of 16.
    
    In other news, Are Nakkim edged John Halvorsen to win the 10th annual
    Boston Milk Run.  Nakkim covered the 10km in 29:13.
    
    
    JD

    From unconfirmed reports, Ibraham Hussein has won the boston Marathon
    in Course Record time.
    
    
    More tomorroe....
    
    JD

    re .29:
    
    The Red Sox conference has since reported that the time wasn't a course
    record.
    
    
    py

    It was 2:11 and change.
    
    Wanda Patlik or something like that won the women's in 2:24 and
    change...

    That would be Wanda Panfil - who i thought would win it.   All the pre
    race focus was on INgrid and Joan, plus a smattering of Kim Jones.  But
    Panfil has been running very well the last year or so.
    
    JD

>    race focus was on INgrid and Joan, plus a smattering of Kim Jones.  But
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If Kim Jones is that hot blonde, I'd sure like a smattering of her!

   Yeah, one of the `mini-headlines' (previews of what's inside the
   paper), said HUSSEIN TAKES BOSTON!

   	EH? NOW what?!?!

   Mike JN

Well, there was a pretty dang exciting NCAA Track and Field 
Championships held last Thursday through Saturday in Eugene, Oregon.

Tennessee won wiht 51 points, with Washington State second with 42 
points, Oregon 3rd, BYU 4th, and Texas 5th.   Washington State could 
have won the championship with 52 points, but hurdler supreme Tony Li 
hit the 8th hurdle, stumbled, and went out of his lane.  He was 
disqualified, so his win (and 10 points) were taken off the board - 
giving the Vols the victory.  

As expected, LSU won the women's meet, with 78 points to Texas' 67.  
Nebraska, UCLA and Tenessee rounded out hte top 5.

Individual Champions:

Men's
-----

100M  Frank Fredericks, BYU (Nambia) 10.03 wind-aided
200M Frank Fredericks,  BYU (Nambia) 19.90 wind-aided
400M  Gabriel Luke, Rice  45.32
800M  George Kersh, Mississippi  145.82
1500M Samuel Kibiri, Wash. State (Kenya) 3:59.53
3,000M Steeplechase  Mark Croghan, Ohio State 8:22.26
5000M Shannon Butler, Montana St. 13:41.61
10000M Terry Thornton, LSU (Unit.Kingdom) 28:25.92
11OHurdles Gerg Williams, Texas A&M (Jamaica) 13.55 wind-aided
400Hurdles Samuel Matete, Auburn (Zambia) 49.12
Shot Put Simon Williams, LSU (United Kingdom)  61' 4"
Discus Kamy Keshmiri, Nevada 218'5"  Collegiate Record
Javelin Patrik Boden, Texas (Sweden) 260' 4"
Hammer Christophe Epalle, SMU (France) 238'6"
High Jump - Darrin Plab, Southern Illinois 7'6 1/2"
Long Jump - George Ogbeide, Wash, St., (Nigeria) 26' 8 1/4"
Triple Jump - Bian Wellman, Arkansas (Bermuda) 56' 10 1/2" Wind Aided
Pole Vault - Istvan Bagyula, George Mason (Hungary) 19' 1/4"
Decathlon - Aric Long, Tennessee, 7,916 points
4x100 Relay - Texas Christion - 38.88
4x400 Relay - Baylor 3:02.52



JD

    Finaland's Seppo Raty improved his world javelin record by almost 17
    feet Sunday with a toss of 318 feet, 1 inch, at a meet in Punkalaidun,
    Finland.  
    
    Raty is Finland's first javelin world record holder since 1969. The
    javelin is an event that the Finns long domintated, only to fall back
    some in the last few decades.
    
    JD

    
    	Is Carl running track also this year?  I hope so!  BTW, I'm going
    down to see the Bowels and Crooks this year!  Should be good!
    
    B.A.
    

    The US Champeenships are ongoig now at Downing Stadium in New York City
    (Nice facility...)
    
    Anyway, Leroy Burrell set a world record in the 100M yesterday -
    running a 9.90 just under the legal wind condition (Wind was 1.9 MPH,
    legal is under 2.0)  Carl Lewis was second in 9.93 (matching his old
    WR)   Burrell and Lewis are teammates and both coached by Tom Telitz.
    Burrell got a great start and Lewis had a mediocre start.  Lewis did
    his famous acceleration and came from way back to finish second.  No
    one accelerates DURING a 100M like Carl Lewis (and I mean in the
    history of the sport).   That was Lewis' best time since the last
    Olympics.
    
    Burrell easily qualified for the 200M final.
    
    I'll post more information on these champeenships when I get them. The
    first 3 in each event become memebers of the US Squad competing in the
    World Champeenships later this summer.
    
    Skeets Nehemiah finished 3rd in the 110M hurdles (Greg Foster with  the
    win) - running his best time since 1983 (and before his decision to try
    to play foot-a-ball).  
    
    JD

    Nice comeback by Lewis in the long-jump, JD.  A *CLUTCH* performance.
    
    His arrogance still bugs me at times, but the man can move!
    
    lEe

I was lucky enough to get home from MY track meet in time Saturday to catch 
much of the meet.  In my mind, here were some of the hightlights:

* Women's 1500 where Suzy Favor blew by the favored (npi) Patti Sue Plummer, 
  taking the inside on her to win in 4:06:13.  Suzy, cover person for this
  month's Runner's World, showed a lot of toughness, since Patti Sue is generally
  unbeatable at 1500.

* Lilli Leatherworth winning an exciting 400 (49.66) that included Diane Dixon 
  in the field.

* Kim Batten winning the 400 hurdles in 54:19 over Sandra Farmer-Patrick in 
  her outrageous/hideous chiffon running outfit.

* Terrance Herrington winning the mens 1500 in 3:40:72 against an extremely 
  strong field that included Joe Falcon, Jim Spivey and Steve Scott.  Herrington
  had a great kick at the end to come from behind.

* Leroy Burrel's brilliant charge from the starting blocks to set a world record,
  and beat Carl Lewis in the 100 meters (didn't get a time on this one).  The 
  guy is HOT.  Lewis got a bad start, but really came on strong in the last 50.

* And, of course, Lewis' clutch, final jump victory in the long jump.

I'll let JD post any further results, suffice it to say that this was a great 
meet.  Very competitive and exciting.  Perhaps the reports of the demise of T&F
as a spectator sport are exagerated.

=Bob=

 

    Here are the Men's results from last week's US Track and Field
    Champeenships.  The top 3 go on to compete for the U.S. at the World
    Champeenships held in August in Tokyo, Japan.





          USA Track and Field Champeenships


          ________________________________________________________________
          Event_________First_______________Second______________Third_____

                                    MEN'S RESULTS

          100 Meter     Leroy Burrell       Carl Lewis          Dennis
                        9.90 (WR)                               Mitchell

          200 Meter     Michael Johnson     Leroy Burrell       Floyd
                        20.31                                   Heard

          400 Meter     Antonio Petti-      Andrew Valmon       Quincy
                        grew 44.36                              Watts

          800 Meter     Mark Everett        George Kersh        Johnny
                        1:44.28                                 Gray

          1500 Meter    Terrance Har-       Steve Scott         Joe Fal-
                        rington 3:40.72                         coln

          3000          Mark Grogan         Dan Nelson          Brian
          Steeple       8:21.64                                 Demer

          5000 Meter    John Trautman       Reuben Reina        Bob
                        13:56.26                                Kennedy

          1000 Meter    Shannon Butler      Steve Plasencia     Aaron
                        28:09.40                                Ramirez

          100 Hurdle    Greg Foster         Jack Pierce         Renaldo
                        13.29                                   Nehemiah





                                                                         1

 





          ________________________________________________________________
          Event_________First_______________Second______________Third_____


          400 Hurdle    Danny Harris        Kevin Young         Derrick
                        47.62                                   Adkins

          20K Walk      Tim Lewis**1:29:55  Gary Morgan         Dave
                                                                McGovern

          Long Jump     Carl Lewis 28'4     Mike Powell         Larry
                        1/4"                                    Myricks

          Triple        Kenny Harrison      Mike Conley         Don Parish
          Jump          56' 10 1/2"

          High Jump     Hollis Conway 7'    Rick Noji           Charles
                        7 1/2"                                  Austin

          Pole Vault    Time Bright 18'     Joe Dial            Kevin
                        8 1/2"                                  Riley

          Shot Put      Ron Backes 64'      C.J. Hunter         Dave
                        11 1/2"                                 Wilson

          Discus        Tony Washington     Mike Buncic         Michael
                        211' 11"                                Gravelle

          Hammer        Jud Logan 244'      Lance Deal          Ken Flax
                        10"

          Javelin       Mike Barnett        Dave Stephens       Tom Puk-
                        262' 0"                                 stys

          Decathlon     Dan O'Brien         Dave Johnson        Rob Muzzo
                        8,444 points




          2

 





          ________________________________________________________________
          Event_________First_______________Second______________Third_____

	  ** Tim Lewis is an employee of Digital Equipment Corporation
          ________________________________________________________________



































                                                                         3

Women's results - US Champeenships.
    
    Note:  US CR = US Collegiate Record
           US R  = US Record 
     
        
          USA Track and Field Champeenships


          ________________________________________________________________
          Event_________First_______________Second______________Third_____

                                   WOMEN'S RESULTS

          100 Meter     Carlette Guidry     Gwen Torrance       Evelyn
                        10.94                                   Ashford

          200 Meter     Gwen Torrance       Dannette Young      Esther
                        22.38                                   Jones

          400 Meter     Lilli Leather-      Jearl Miles         Diane
                        wood 49.66                              Dixon

          800 Meter     Delisa Floyd        Meredith Rainey     Joetta
                        1:59.82                                 Clark

          1500 Meter    Suzy Favor          PattiSue Plummer    Darcy
                        Hamilton 4:06.13                        Arreola

          3000 Meter    Shelly Steely       Annette Peters      Judi St.
                        8:49.00                                 Hilaire

          10000         Lynn Jennings       Francie Larrieu     Anne-Marie
          Meter         32:45.88            Smith               Letko

          100 Hur-      Gail Devers-        Dawn Bowles         Annita
          dles          Roberts 12.83                           Epps-
                                                                Myricks

          400 Hur-      Kim Batten 54.18    Sandra Farmer-      Janeene
          dles          (US CR)             Patrick             Vickers




                                                                         1

 





          ________________________________________________________________
          Event_________First_______________Second______________Third_____


          10K Walk      Debbi Lawrence      Lynn Weik           Victorio
                        46:06.36 (US R)                         Herazo

          Long Jump     Jackie Joyner-      Shila Echols        Cindy
                        Kersee 22' 8"                           Greiner

          High Jump     Yolanda Henry 6'    Sue Rembao          Tisha
                        4 3/4"                                  Walker

          Shot Put      Ramona Pagel 60'    Connie Price-       Pam Dukes
                        1 1/2"              Smith

          Discus        Lacy Barnes         Pam Dukes           Penny Neer
                        199'10"

          Javelin       Karin Smith         Paula Berry         Donna
                        197'6"                                  Mayhew

          Heptathlon    Jackie Joyner-      Cindy Grenier       Kym Carter
                        Kersie 6,878
                        points

          ________________________________________________________________













          2

    
    Sarge,
    
    	What?  No relay teams?  
    
    Claybone

    Claybone -
    
    Nope, no relay teams.  The US Champeenships have no team scoring.
    
    However - at the World's there will be 4 x 100 and 4 x 200.
    
    Usually, the top 3 in the 100m and one more make up the 4 x100 - and
    they pick two alternatives (4th place finisher, 100M and one other)
    
    I'd guess the 4x100 would be Burrell (start), Heard (turn), Mitchell
    (straight) and Lewis (Anchor off curve).  This team should win unless
    there is an injury or lane violation or dropped baton.  
    
    The 4 x400 I'd guess to be the top 3 in the 400 M plus one more -
    Pettigrew, Valmon, Watts - plus one (Steve Lewis???)
    
    JD

    Carlette Guidry - alumni of Ross Sterling High School, home of Clyde
    Drexler, Zina Garrison, Lori McNeil, and me (in 1978-79).
    
    Go head lady !
    
    JD I've a question for you ;
    
    What are the peak years for a sprinter, age-wise ? Have they increased
    with better training ? Is there such a thing as a late bloomer (I swear
    I'm probably faster as an in shape 26 year old, than I was at 23) ?
    
    what about for distance runners ?
    
    Thanks ...

Can't answer for sprinters, or even middle distance, but distance runners tend 
to peak late in comparison to other athletes.

Several great marathoners had their best years in their mid thirties - Bill 
Rogers, Rob DeCastella, Toshiko Seiko, etc.  Many even hit their peak in their 
fourties, most notably Priscilla Welch and John Campbell, who set a masters 
(over 40) record at the Boston Marathon last year, and who is generally a threat
to win outright in any race he enters.  One exception to this is the 
African runners, who often are competitive, or even dominant while in their 
twenties.

=Bob=

Speed is something you're born with.  Either you have it or you don't.
Endurance is pretty much the same way.

Within certain limits you can increase either, but I can do wind sprints
from now till I'm 50, everyday, until I puke, and I won't have blazing
speed.

Fortunately in most cases, Nature has balanced out what you get.  I'll never
know what it's like to have blazing speed, but then again, no wing will 
ever know what it's like to hit someone as hard as you can, feel them 
buckle, and hear the air whoosh outta them once you've cleaned their clock...

It's all a trade off....


With that outta the way, Hawkster, I'd have finished mine and started
yours by the time YOU crossed the line 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^)


'Saw

    Geneerally, the peak for distance runners is 28-35 or so.  Though
    nowadays folks are sticking with running longer and older guys like
    Campbell excel. 
    
    Sprinting used to be a young mans game.  But with the ability to make a
    living out of sprinting, we've seen guys last til there 30's and be
    competitive.  
    
    Speed is basically a natural gift.  You can train and get in shape and
    improve your speed, but you'll only get so far as a sprinter.  I was
    able to one glorious time break 52 seconds in the quarter mile - I
    could run 55 seconds with no problem, but getting faster was tough.  
    After a season of really instense speed and endurance workouts in
    college, I was able to do it as a relay leg.  But I couldnt' have gone
    any faster no matter how much I trained - unless I tried th change my
    whole body chemistry and workout focus.   And after nearly puking
    afterwards, I gladly decided to stick to teh 10000 meters...
    
    JD

From what I understand, it has to do with the combination of slow-twitch and
fast-twitch muscle fibers you have.

More of the fast, and you have speed, more of the slow and you have endurance.

Nothing you can do will change that fact....


So, I guess I could say "Once a prop, always a prop"  8^)

'Saw

As JD said, you can train yourself to run faster, but only to a limited extent.

I personally credit speed workouts (sprints) with having a dramatic difference
in my speed (JD, you should have seen me BEFORE I ever did speed work 8^)).  I'm 
certainly now speed burner now, but I have improved.

I'm also intrigued by the middle distance runners (mile, 1500, etc).  These folks
combine speed and strength.  The interesting thing is that they can often step
up to longer distances, but can seldom drop down to sprints.  Guess it is proof
to the theory.

=Bob=

    
>    What are the peak years for a sprinter, age-wise ? Have they increased
>    with better training ? Is there such a thing as a late bloomer (I swear
>    I'm probably faster as an in shape 26 year old, than I was at 23) ?
    
  that's cause you got more people chase your butt these days....

 ;^)

    Let's hear it for fast-twitch fibers !!!! :-0
    
    The way I understand it, it's like chicken meat. Dark meat has more
    sucrose in it and seems to correspond to fast-twitch (the higher sugar
    levels contribute to explosive power), slow twitch corresponds to white
    meat. 
    
    No I am not making this up, and I was wondering if someone could
    confirm this ?
    
    Back to the subject, I'd love to make time to train and see just how
    fast I could be....I'm pretty fast by everyday standards, but I want to
    see if I can do a sub 4.8 (4.65 ?) 40 ....

    
    	Is that 4.8 days Doc?
    
    	Claybone :*)

    
    > The way I understand it, it's like chicken meat. Dark meat has more
    > sucrose in it and seems to correspond to fast-twitch (the higher sugar
    > levels contribute to explosive power), slow twitch corresponds to white
    > meat. 
    
    I'm no physiologist (and as the 'Saw would say I don't play one on TV),
    but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that slow-twitch and
    fast-twitch muscle fibers are a little more complex than the division
    of chicken meat.  As far as I know, no matter how fast the chicken is, 
    the dark meat is in the legs and the white meat is in the breast.  
    This would apply to turkeys too, and probably any other of your common 
    game fowl.... ;-)
    
    HTH,
    glenn
    

    
    Glenn,
    
    	The *game fowl* that I hunt have dark meat on the breasts
    	as well as the legs.  It's due to the amount of flying
    	they do I believe.  We're talking ducks and geese here.
    
    hope THIS helps!
    
    Claybone

    Dark meat is a function of both where on the body the muscle was, and
    how much exercise it got while the animal was alive.  Domesticated birds
    have been bred to have a higher percentage of white meat and raised to
    have a minimum of exercise, to result in a more tender meat.
    
    A&W

    
    Toppsy knows slow twitch.
    

    I know there's a really funny joke in there somewhere about
    running on your breasts, bbut I'll be damned if I'm gonna try
    to find it.
    
    NAZZ

    Ha ha ha, Dan and Nazz have got me rooooollllinnnnn big-time, and it's
    only 7 AM!   :*)
    
    lEe

    Some Resluts from the 25th World Games, Helsinki, Finland
    
    MEN:
    
    200M  Devion Dunn, US 20.52, 
    400M  Mark Everett, US 44.59  2. Roberto Hernandez, Cuba 44.68
    800M  Tom McKean, UK 1:46.05
    1500M Noredine Morceli, Algeria, 3:31.00
    5000M Khalid Skah, Morocco, 13:17.72
    110H  Tony Dees, US 13.51
    3000ST William Mutwol, Kenya 8:20.94
    Javelin Seppo Raty, Finland 294' 0"
    LJ    Mike Powell, US 27' 6 3/4"
    PV    Scott Huffman US 18' 4 1/2 "
    
    
    WOMEN
    
    100M  Irina Sergejeva USSR 11.01
    800M  Ana Quirot, CUBA 1:57.91
    400H  Gowry Retchakan, UK, 55.77
    3000M PattiSue Plummer,US 8:51.10
    HJ    Jana Brenkusova, Czeckoslavakia 6' 1 1/4"
    LJ    Inessa Kravats, USSR 22' 3 1/2"
    Jav   Karen Forkel, Germany 230' 3"

    Gee.... I think I used to go out with some resluts.   ;*)
    
    Dennis
    

    WELL, in the long-awaited (yawn) match race between Carl Lewis and Ben
    Johnson, Lewis beat Johnson handidly, and Dennis Mitchell beat everyone
    in the 100M.  
    
    Mitchell won in 10.09, Lewis was 2nd in 10.20, Johnson was 7th in
    10.46.   Johnson doesn't seem to have the power he used to - he ran
    okay for  50 meters, then got put away.  He gave up over the last 20
    Meters.
    
    The race, in Villeneuve d'Ascq, France, was part of the BNP Grand Prix
    meet.  The weather was cold and damp.  Not sprinting weather.
    
    WR holder Leroy Burrel was there and won the 200M in 20.31 - passing up
    the 100M.
    
    JD

I heard that in his comeback bid, Johnson has won one out of seven of his races.

Hmmmmm, I wonder why he isn't as strong.

=Bob=

Ya, as you said JD, Johnson lost in the second 50 - he used to get FASTER, not
slower as the race went along.  I wonder what impact a stoppage in steroid
usage has after different periods - say 3 months, 6 months, one year after
stopping... 

Had to laugh at Mitchell, who said "Since it was billed as Lewis vs. Johnson
I knew I would win!"  He was, after all, fourth in Seoul.

Not only does Lewis look more and more like LaToya Jackson, he's acting like a
sissy, too, the little dipsh!t.  Purposely shook everyone's hand except Johnson
before the race, and ignored Johnson's hand when it was offered.

Yuk.

You can bet that the last word has by no means been said on that duel...

rick

    
> Not only does Lewis look more and more like LaToya Jackson, he's acting like a
> sissy, too, the little dipsh!t.  Purposely shook everyone's hand except Johnson
> before the race, and ignored Johnson's hand when it was offered.
    
    You're kidding... Lewis really has confirmed everyone's worst criticisms,
    and has become intolerable.
    
    I guess for JD's consumption I could say that track and field has
    become nothing more than a WWF-like circus dominated by egomaniacal
    phonies... but I won't.  ;-)
    
    glenn
    

I heard it the other way around.  Lewis actually offered to shake Johnson's 
hand, but Johnson refused it saying that he would'nt shake hands while they
were competing against each other.  This was reported in the NYT.

Sameer

    I believe it was as Sameer put it.  But either way it's childish.
    
    I know that before the Steroid scandal, Ben refused to shake Lewis'
    hand.
    
    Glenn - I've written in here, and in past SPORTS, about my feelings
    toward track and field.  Lewis and his cohorts have turned part of
    track and field into a WWF type atmosphere.  It's too bad.  The sport
    is dieing in the US - despite very good talent, and its popularity rise
    elsewhere in the world.   The summer European circuit is well attended
    and well reported - in the US, we can barely get 7000 folks to attend
    the National Championships.   
    
    Appearance money runs the sport now - and many top competitors won't
    compete against each other - because if one is dominant, the other
    losses appearance money.   A few years ago Steve Cram and Said Aoutita
    were the two  best 1500 men in the world - but they never raced against
    each other....sad, very sad.
    
    People in the US only want to watch track in the OLympics or if there's
    a record (for the most part).  Of course, if we don't do good in the
    Olympics, they complain - even though they don't follow the sport at
    all.
    
    And it will get worse.  Last year Track fell to 4th on the list of high
    school participation sports.   It's been falling steadily since the mid
    80's. 
    
    You would thing with the rise of road racing popularity, that track's
    popularity would rise - but many, many road racers don't care about
    anything but their own racing and other road racing, and of course,
    marathoning.
    
    The worst TV decision for T&F was the broadcasting of marathons. 
    Pretty boring stuff, and not likely to draw folks into wanting to watch
    T&F.    Sprints, relays, and the mile draw fans.   Field events could
    if TV knew how to broadcast them.
    
    Like Soccer, Track and Field isn't made for TV - the big American
    sports are.
    
    Back to Lewis - he's hated by a lot of folks, but the man may be the
    most talented - heck who am I kidding, Carl Lewis IS the greatest
    sprinter of all time - especially when combining his sprinting with his
    long jumping.   He's a very special athlete.  Speed, grace, fantastic
    form - the man has an acceleration in the 100M that I've never seen -
    if only he could get a good start, he'd be unbeatable.   I think his
    best race might have been the 200M, cuz the start isn't as important,
    and he's strong, has a great stride, and again, great acceleration.
    
    On relays, he's the best anchor leg I've ever witnessed.  And in the
    long jump - he's dominant.  He hasn't lost in over a decade.
    
    As a person, I don't like his attitude.  As an athlete, I tip my hat to
    him.
    
    JD

>>    I believe it was as Sameer put it.  But either way it's childish.
  
Sorry to nit but it is important:  I saw it live on TV (they stopped the News
and whatever else was going on on most stations) and as big as life:  Johnson
was standing back a bit from the line by his block and when Lewis had finished
shaking hands with the guys on his left he went straight to the guy in the
lane *after* Johnson, leaving Johnson standing there with his hand extended.
Johnson ended up sort of touching Lewis' hand or wrist.

And JD, fer crying out loud, of course you've seen someone with better
acceleration than Lewis:  Johnson!!  And how many times??  Geesh, the man
gets leprosy and everyone completely forgets him in a couple of years...

The questions in my mind are:  How much of Johnson's 9:79 was dope and
can he do it again without?

As far as Lewis vs. Johnson on the track is concerned, it may never happen.  If
Johnson ever gets back on form, Lewis by then may well be in the shadow of 
Mitchell, Burrel, and others....  But I have a feeling the last word's not
yet been said on their competition.

rick

    Rick -
    
    Thanks for the clarification.  I know Johnson did the same to Lewis -
    doesn't make it any better, however.
    
    JD
    
    PS - Interesting article in the Vancouver, B.C. paper about steroid
    use.
    They said what lots of T&F fans expected - that the reason Johnosn is
    an average runner now is because no more steroids.  
    
    Too bad - we'll never kjnow about how ;good Johnson was  - ant that's
    the real shame.

    Here are the World LEaders in Track and Field for this year:
    
    100M:  Leroy Burrell, USA 9.90, Carl Lewis, USA 9.93
    200M:  Michael Johnson, USA 20.02, Frank Fredericks, Nambia 20.13
    400M:  Michael Johnson, USA 44.17, Antonio Pettigrew, USA 44.36
    800M:  Jose Luis Barbosa, Brazil 1:43.87, Johnny Gray, USA 1:44.01
    1500M: Noureddine Morcelli, ALgeria, 3:31.00, Simon Doyle, Australia 3:31.97
    Mile:  Morcelli, Algeria, 3:49.12, Peter Elliot, UK, 3:49.46
    5000M: Ibrahim Kinuthia, Kenya 3:09.76, Salvatore Antibo, Italy 13:10.10
   10000M: Richard Chelimo, Kenya 27:11.98, Khalid Skah, Morocco 27:23.26
  Marathon: Koichi Morishita, Japan 2:08:53, Takyuki Nakayama, Japan 
            2:09.12
    3000M SteepleChase:  Moses Kiptanui, Kenya 8:07.89, Phillip Barkutwo
                         Kenya, 8:08.39
    110Hurdles: Tony Dees, USA 13.05, Greg Foster, USA 13.06
    400Hurdles: Danny Harris, USA 47.38, Kevin Young USA 47.84
    
    High Jump:  Hollis Conway, USA 7'10.5", Ralf Sonn, Germany 7'10"
    Pole Vault: Sergei Bubka, USSR 20'1", Istvan Bagyula, Hungary 19'5"
    Long Jump:  Carl Lewis, USA 28'4.25", Mike Powell, USA 28'3.75"
    Triple Jump: Ralf Jaros, Germany 57'11.25", Leonold Voloshin, USSR 57'8.5"
    Shot Put:  Werner Guntheor, Switzerland 72'3.5", Jim Doehring, USA 68'1"
    Discus:  Mike Buncic, USA 227'7", Erik de Bruin, Holland 223'6"
    Hammer:  Igor Astapkovich, USSR 276'5", Yuri Sedykh, USSR 271'1"
    Javelin:  Seppo Raty, Finland 314'11.75", Jan Zelezny, Czech 297'8"
    Decathlon: Dan O'Brien, USA 8,884 points (wind), Christian Plaziat, 
               France 8,518 points
    
    

    Women's Leaders:
    
    100M: Marlene Ottey, Jamaica 10.79, Carlette Guidey, USA 10.94
    200M: Ottey, 22.06, Katrin Krabbe, Germany 22.51
    400M: Marie-Jose Perec, France, 49.32, Lillie leatherwood, USA 49.66
    800M: Ana Quirot, Cuba 1:57.34, Ella Kovacs, Romania 1:57.91
    1500M: Natalya Artoyomova, USSR 4:00.76, Doina Melinte, Romania 4:00.83
    3000M: Elana Meyer, Sth. Africa 8:32.00, Liz McColgan, UK 8:38.23
    10000M: McColgan, UK 30:57.07, Kathrin Ulrich, Germany 31:03.62
    Marathon: Wanda Panfil, Poland 2:24.18, Rosa Mota Portugal 2:26.14
    100Hurdles: Lyudmila Narozhilenko, USSR 12.28, Natalya Grigoryeva, USSR
                12.38
    400Hurdles: Sandra Farmer-Patrick, USA 53.54, Kim Batten, USA 54.18
    
    High Jump: Heilke Henkel, Germany 6'7.5", Inga Babakova, USSR 6'7"
    Long Jump: Larissa Berezhnaya, USSR 23'9", Heike Brechsler, Germany 23'9"
    Shot Put: Natalya Lisovskaya, USSR 69'3.5", Huang Zhihong, China 67'6.25"
    Discus: Larisa Mikhalchenko, USSR 227'0", Ilke Wyludda,Germany 225'9"
    JaVELIN: Karin Forkel, Germany 230'4", Trina Solbery-Hattestad,Norway
             226'4"
    Heptathlon: Jackie Joyner-Kersee 6,876 points, Sabine Braun, Germany
                6,584 points
    
    

Geez, JD,

Looking at that it almost falls exactly into the split that Kev mentioned
at my house that day, about speed/distance and who was in each.

Only in this case, it's like the USA in the speed stuff, and we've fallen
way off in the distance hunt....

Sad....


'Saw

    Does anybody know the record in the 100 yard dash, and what book I can
    verify it.
    
                                   Thanks in advance

    It's been a very long time since the sprint records
    were recorded in English lengths.  Now it is metric.
    
    I'd bet that the latest World Almanac, available anywhere
    would have it IF JD doesn't reply.
    
    Another choice would be to call the publishers of Track and Field news,
    or SI, or any other publication, maybe your local paper's sports
    department.
    
    My *guess* is 9.1 seconds
    
    Kev
    

I don't know what the record is, but I know Kevin set it leaving the
Employee's Only area at Uncle Al's.

JD and I saw it, and since there was not much tail wind that evening,
I believe the record will stand....

What?  What's that?


Oh, I'm sorry, I though you said the 100 FOOT dash, not the 100 YARD dash....



'Saw

    The 100 yard dash - I believe Houston McTear and/or Calvin Smith (and
    possibly someone else) ran the 100 yard dash in 9.0 seconds.  
    
    I'll see if I can verify.
    
    JD

Well, since it'd probably take me about 15.00 to run the 100 yard
dash, I know it ain't me...

But, if I hit you at the end of that 100 yard dash, you'd be a hurtin'
unit...  8^)


later,
'Saw

    Thanks for the responces on the 100 yard dash question. I thought
    some whear I read it was less than 9 seconds. Any who, I have a bet
    whith a coworker that someone did it in less than 9.
    
                                Thanks again.

    Obviously, the problems with ::Sports is MY fault ;^)
    
    The reply I tried to create before the network ate it went something
    like this:
    
    The 100 yd. has been run as fast as 8.9 seconds but it was wind aided
    and therefore cannot count as a world record (needs a_asterick).
    
    I believe that during the Rome Olympics Bob Hayes was clocked during
    his 110 yard run in the 440 yd. relay at 8.7 seconds!  This is believed
    to be the fastest ANY human has ever run, being calculated at more than
    28 MPH!
    
    In comparison, the world record is a relatively SLOF speed of 23 MPH.
    
    HTH
    
    Kev
    

    Kev -
    
    Actually, Carl Lewis in the 84 Olympics was clocked faster than Hayes
    on his anchor leg.
    
    JD

>    on his anchor leg.


Is that the one in between the other two????


8^)

    JD,
    
    Let's not get too picky here OK?
    
    Lewis got the stick near the end of the passing zone (shorter to run)
    and had a Clemson ref time him!  ;^)
    
    BTW, smarty pants, care to back up your statement with facks?  Where's
    Cap and the Ninj when ya really need 'em?
    
    Bob Hayes is/was a manly-man, not a girly-mon like Lewis!
    
    many ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    Kev -
    
    Remember, Bullet Bob Hayes' was hand timed - not electronically like
    Carl.  And no matter how much of an ass Carl may be - the man is
    without a doubt one of the greatest athletes of all time. He hasn't
    lost a long jump in over a decade.  He held the world record in the
    100. Numerous Olympic wins.   ANd I believer his time on the anchor was
    somewhere down near 8.5.
    
    JD

    At hte World University Games in Sheffield, England, Hollis COnway
    jumped 7'9.25" to win the HJ, and European Javelin Champ Steve Backly
    threw 286'9.75" to win golds.  
    
    
    Soviet High Jumper Yelena Rodina tested positive for steroids in last
    month's Europa Cup at Frankfurt, Germany and was stripped of her
    victory.  THe loss of her victory dropped the Soviet's womens team 
    to second n the overall standards, behind Germany.
    
    JD

    
    NEWS FLASH!!!!!
    
    
    
    	from the Sports Information Bureau:
    
    It has been reported that Car(o)l Lewis, girly-mon sprinter and current
    world record holder has been the beneficial recipient of what is being
    called "The Park Effect" in regards to his claim as the fastest human
    ever, displacing Bob Hayes from the position he has held for over 35
    years.
    
    Scientific evidenceary(tm) comparisons between the 2 have revealed
    and proven the fackt(tm) that ANY claim by Car(o)l should be noted
    with an asterick (*) since Car(o)l's times were recorded in dissimiliar
    conditions than Bob's.
    
    Here is a partial explaination:
    
    
    			Bob Hayes		Car(o)l Lewis
    			---------		-------------
    
    Running Surface     Authentic Cinder	Spongy,rubberized
    						artyfishal surface
    
    Shoes		Leatherized Bricks	Modern, lightweight
    			w/6d nails for spikes	w/ scores of needle spikes
    
    'roids		Not invented yet	<insert slanderous remark>
    
    clothes		Cotton & Canvas		Aerodynamic form-fitted
    						girly-mon colored dance
    						tights
    
    Timing Device	mechanical, human	electronic, solid state
    			interface required	automatically started
    			subject to accuracy	modern stopwatch
    			flucturation stop-
    			watch
    
    Timer		Authentic trained	Clemson ref
    			track official
    
    Motivation		God, Country, Mother-	$$$$$$$$$
    			hood and apple pie
    
    
    
    	Therefore, it is concluded that in the interest of pure sports
    accomplishments, Bob Hayes shall forevermore be recognized as the one,
    only, valid and truthfull owner of the title, "The World's Fastest
    Human"!
    
    As it is written, so it shall be.
    
    

    
    HAHAHAHAH!  Good one, Kev!
    

Well, I tend to feel like JD.  I mean, Carl Lewis is a girly-mon (almost more
than Michael Jackson is a girly-mon) but the dude can run.

What I think tends to make Hayes superior is that he then made the transition
to football, and played quite well.  Few track stars of today have been
able to do that.  Gault comes to mind, but on the other hand Nehamiah(sp)
couldn't do it....

Like IBM says, You make the call.....


'Saw

    Sawmeisterhosterauthormountainester,
    
    Whether Car(o)l cain or cain't run is immiterial(tm) and not the issue.
    
    Like the Snuffmeister (~/~), Car(o)l's accomplishments are a matter
    of factual record.  However, dastistically(tm) speaking, the numbers
    associated with the actual events, i.e. his "time", are truely worthy
    of "Da Park Effect" classification.
    
    The Sports Information Bureau recently finished callibration tests on
    the ACTUAL stopwatch used to time Bob Hayes.  I've extracted this
    juicy portion for you AND Sarge's benefit.
    
    "... and it was determined by the NBS Testing Labs that due to
    insufficient lubrication of the coil and spring mechanism, coupled with
    the wear and tear of the spur gears, it has been proven that the stop
    watch used to time Robert Hayes at the Rome Olympics was, in fact, more
    that 2/10th's of a second slower than originally reported..."
    
    Now *I'M* not saying that Bob REALLY ran 8.5 seconds.  Sarge, without
    factual evidence to back up his assertion that Car(o)l ran 8.6 seconds,
    still loses when the information taken from the SIB report is evident!
    
    Sooo, dis and dat (see prior notes) mearly(tm) offers irrefutable
    proof that Car(o)l is a_inferior runner, incapable of winnin the
    big enchilada (sound familiar?)
    
    many ;^)
    

    Kev -
    
    Too funny - of course, you are clinging to a distant memory- it would
    be like me trying to prove that Jim Ryan was actually faster than 
    Steve Cram.
    
    Sorry Kev - but Bob Hayes (of prison fame, I might add) was one of the
    fastest, must powerful runners ever - but Carl Lewis would whup him.
    
    JD

    "...but Carl Lewis would whup him."
    			      ^
    			      | 		
    			Change that word to "Lick" and I'll concurr
    
    ;^)

    
    This weeks SI had one of the best articles I've ever read.  I didn't
    finish their cover story about the black athlete but I read the
    Tommy Smith article (2x).  A few comments:
    
    First, TS was one hellova runner and I really experienced fond
    memories as I read about his races.  Anybody who understands times
    must concurr!  (?)
    
    Second, the racial unrest in our country during '67-'69 coupled with 
    the media's less-than-the-whole-truth effectively "brainwashed" me
    into believing that Tommy Smith and John Carlos were "militant
    supporters of the gun carrying Black Panthers" and were a "threat"
    to whitey.  Their raised fist at the Olympic podium was a Black Panther
    salute.  This I believed from 1968 until this weekend.
    
    This article really opened my eyes and I strongly recommend it be read.
    There is some fantastic insight into what kind of crisis exists in the
    mind of an [famous] athlete who needs to balance his athletic endeavors
    with social issues.
    
    Kev
    

    Well, we all knew he had to do it sooner or later.  Sergei Bubka became
    the first to clear 20 feel outdoors, vaulting 20'.25" in the Dag Galan
    Meet in Malmo, Sweden.   Bubka holds the indoor mark of 20'1" set last
    winter.
    
    JD

Quite a night in Zurich yesterday with the Annual Track & Field doodaa.

The Santa Monica boys cleaned up in the relay as you all probably know.  Even
though Lewis looks like the ass he is with that stupid smoking/training thingy
he was wearing, boy did he run!

Personally, I was just as impressed with Nehemiah's victory exactly 10 years
after first breaking the 100m hurdles mark in the same stadium!! Brilliant!
Who would've bet 5 cents on him before the race?

Also, Samuel Matete of Zambia did a job in the 400m hurdles and I thought 
Charles Austin was super with his 2'40 in the high jump.

They had 34 cameras and a cast of thousands to put the show together since
NBC must have paid them a zillion for the rights.  You can see 90 minutes of
it on Sunday - btw, saw Dwight Stoned there with some big football-player-
turned-broadcaster type, but I don't know who it was - he was built like a
lineman and has dark brown hair with a fairly thick moustache.  I only caught
a glimpse of him - does someone know who it is?

rick ellis

    Rick -
    
    Sounds like it was probably Dan Dierdorf.  In which case, either he's
    changed networks, or ABC was covering it.
    
    A&W

When Dan puts on that ABC broadcasting jacket, he quickly becomes
expert in boxing, track and field, and other non-football sports....


Hey, I've got a bridge I'm selling too.  Anyone interested?

    Rick,
    
    It might be Todd Christensen (sp) an Ex-NFLer.  He played his best
    years with the LA Raiders as a tight end.
    
    John "D Cowboys" R.

    What a race yesterday.  Simply awsome performance.
    
    IN case you haven't heard, Carl Lewis set a new WR in the 100m at
    the Track and Field World Champeenships in Tokyo by running 9.86.
    Leroy Burrell, the old record holder was second in 9.88, while Dennis
    Mitchell made it a US Sweep by blasting a 9.91 for third.  Linford
    Christie, who was fourth said it all "Fancy running a 9.92 and
    finishing fourth..."  Overall, 6 men broke the 10 second barrier, in
    what was easily the greatest 100M of all time.
    
    Lewis got off slow, but started accelerating at 50M, and blastedby
    Burrell in the last 5 meters.   
    
    Simply awesome.
    
    Jackie Joyner Kersee won the women's  long jump with a 24' 1/4" leap. 
    She sprained her ankle, but did start competing in the heptathlon...
    
    JD

It indeed was possibly teh greatest 100m ever.  I meant to post a not in here, 
work got in the way...

Christie not only broke 10 seconds, set a personal record, and finished fourth,
but he also set the Eurpopean record for the 100m.  

The TV guys were saying that Lewis was working on his starts.  In each of his 
heats he was getting off to good ones, and ironically, in the finals he 
had possibly his worst start of the meet!  

Not bad for a 30 year old...

=Bob=

    
    	And what's wrong with being 30!  ;^)
    
    	Claybone

Actually, a 30 year old is still a kid 8^).

=Bob= who-is-in-the-middle-of-the-thirtysomethings

    Soem super racing yesterday.  Luckily, I get the CBUT feed from
    Vancouver, so every night they have an hour long show on the T&F
    Champeenships.
    
    Major upset last night, as Katrina Krabbe (talk about woodie material -
    my wood-o-meter (tm) was hitting the heights!) upset Marlene Ottey of
    Jamaica in the 100M.  Krabbe got a good start and was never headed.
    Ottey got a poor start, looked tight the whole race and finished 3rd.
    Gwen Torrance of the US was 2nd.  
    
    In the 400 Final, France's Marie-Josee Perec easily won in 49.13 - the
    years's fastest time.  Grit Breuer of Germany was second, and Spain's
    Sandra Myers ran a fantastic last 100 meters to inch out defending
    World Champeen Olga Bryzgina of the USSR for third.  Perec looked simly
    awesome - very long legs and a fantastic stride.
    
    Sabine Braun won the heptathlon, easily, especially with Jackeie
    Joyner-Kersee forced to drop out with a hamstring pull.  Nastase of
    Romania was second, and Byelova of the USSR pulled in a bronze by
    running a fantastic 800 meters to vault into 3rd.  Azziz of Algeria
    slipped from 3rd to 5th during the 800 - what a dog of a race she ran.
    
    IN the men's 200, to no one's surprise, Michael Johnson cruised to
    victory in 20.01 secons - a good time considering the head wind.  Frank
    Fredericks of Nambia (and BYU) was second, while Canada's Atlee Mahorn
    was third.
    
    In the 800M, Kenya perhaps gave a glimpse of another distance
    dominance, as Billy Knochellah defended his title - despite missing hte
    last 2 years due to a bout of turburculocous.  Konchellah unleashed a
    great kick to beat out Spain's Jose Luiz Barbosa, while Mark Everett of
    the US unleased a powerful kick to move from 5th to 3rd in the last 100
    meters, edging out 88 Olympic champ Paul Ereng of Kenya.  Konchellah's
    winning time was 1:43.99.
    
    
    In the 400 Hurdles final, Samuel Matete of Zambia broke the US's
    mastery of this event (read:  Edwin Moses) by winnning in 47.64 - he
    becomes Africa's first 400 hurdle champion since Uganda's great John
    Aki-Bua won the 72 Olympics.  Winthrop Graham of Jamaica was second and
    Kriss Akabusi of Britain third, as the US had too real disappointments
    - a choke by Danny Harris who finished a dismal 5th and Kevin Young in
    4th.  
    
    In the Discus, Lars Ridel of Germany won with a toss of 217' 2", wiht
    Erik de Bruin of the Netherlands second and Attila Horath of Hungary
    third.
    
    
    Today is an off day, with action resuming tomorrow.
    
    JD

    JD, any Lynn Jennings results?
    
    Mark.

    
    Johnson's feat deserves more than a mention. He set a World
    Championship record of 20.05 in the heats then broke it again
    with his 20.01 in the finals. He had the widest margin of victory 
    (.33 seconds or 3 meters) at either the Olympics or World Championships
    since 1936 (Jesse Owens beat Mack Robinson by .40 seconds). This guy
    is a lock to win gold in Barcelona and there's a strong shot at 2.
    
    Lynn Jennings finished seventh in her heat last night but ran her
    fastest 10,000 time (31:56.52) with splits of 16:06 and 16:50. She'll
    run in the finals tommorrow.
    

    
     One of the most amazing things of the Championships so far, to me,
    is the 18 year old kid who took the silver in the men's 10,000. He's
    got an incredible amount of God-given ability.

    
    >>                <<< Note 123.111 by TALLIS::OPERATOR >>>
                                                  ^^^^^^^^
    Operator, could you help me place this call, you see the number on the
    matchbook is old and faded..
    
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

Aside from the record, Johnson is the hands down winner of the kinkiest running
style Award.  

Looks like he is fleeing someone with a red hot poker that is a half inch 
from his bum.    

Also, check out Anita Protti in the hurdles.  Cute as a button.  A pretty
fair example of the kind of girls we have in Lausanne.

rick

    Track and field's longest record was broken earlier today
    by some american (Not Carl Lewis) in the long jump. I didn't catch
    hs name but he jumped 29 feet 4 inches breaking Bob Beamon's 1968
    record jump.....
    
    REK 

    Mike Powell has done the undoable. He jumped 29 feet 4 and 1/2 inches
    at the World Track and Field Championships and broke Bob Beamon's re-
    cord that had stood for twenty-three years and was once thought
    unbreakable. 

       Wow! What'll happen next? Will the Commies get booted in the USSR?
    Will the Pats beat the Gints?Will ACCcrook answer the 'Big 4'?
                                             Denny

    REK reported in another note that the WR in the Long Jump was broken -
    and not by Carl Lewis.  The other AMericans in the competition were
    Larry Myricks and Mike Powell.  Powell has been jumping well this year,
    and Myricks has always had the talent.  If true, this is perhaps the
    greatest performance we've seen in decades!  Also, it would seem to
    have broken Lewis' decade-long consecutive long jump victory streak!
    
    
    JD

    In action yesterday, Greg Foster leaned out Jack Pierce of the US in
    13.06 to successfully defend his World Champeenship title - this is
    Foster's 3rd straight champeenships win.  He also broke his own
    champeenships record of 13.20 that  he set in 1987 in ROme.  Tony
    Jarrett of the UK was 3rd.
    
    
    In the 400, ANtonio Pettigrew of the US won in 44.57, surging past the
    UK's Roger Black in the last 10 meters.  Danny Everett of  the US was
    3rd while Roberto Hernandez, a favorite, was 4th.  Andre Valmon, the
    US' 3rd competitor finished 5th.  
    
    
    Sergey Bubka, despite favoring a bad heel, came through again by
    winning the Pole Vault with a 19' 6 1/4" leap - breaking his own
    championship record set in 1987.  Instavan Bagyula of Hungary was
    second, and Maksim Tarasov of the USSR 3rd.
    
    In te Women's 400 Hurdles final, Tatyan Ledovskaya of the USSR won in
    Champeenship Meet Record time, running a 53.11.  Sally Gunnell of the
    UK was 2nd and Janeene Vicker sof the US was 3rd.
    
    JD

    It's official:
    
    Mike Powell of the USA jumped 29' 4 1/2" today to break Beamon's
    record.
    ON a day when the wind was sometimes over the legal limit, Powell got
    in a legal jump.
    
    Carl Lewis, earlier in the competition, had produced the longest jump
    ever, leaping 29' 2 3/4" - but it was aided by the wind.
    
    Amazing performances by both men!
    
    The last of the amazing 1968 records (at altitude) has been broken -
    last year the 400 M record, this year the long jump!
    
    JD

    The old record for long jump was broken by 2 inches!

    Holt on there Denny.  I can't answer 'The Big 4', cause they've never
    been posted.  
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
     Not to take anything away from the record breakers how much of a part
    do you noters think the track surface played ? Also look for Lewis,
    Burrell and company to absolutely smash the 4x100 record.

I don't think the surface was that important - weren't the records coming
anyway the way things had been building up recently.

So, Powell does it - WOW!  Lewis, even if he does look like a Barbie doll, is
amazing.  I couldn't believe how fast he ran his leg of the relay!  And, Lewis
was a pretty damned good second considering what he's had to do lately!

I also liked the American high jumper Austin - he looks as though he will
be dominating for quite a while.

Keptanui, UNKNOWN a year ago, takes the 300m Steeple at 20 years of age!
Who else is down in Africa that nobody knows about?  Unreal.

Also got a kick out of the Japanese gent who got the Marathon.

:*)  rick

    At the time, Beamon's record seemed unbeatable, that it would last
    forever.  This was because of the distance he surpassed the previous
    record, and also the altitude at which it occurred.
    
    What I'd like to see is the progression of jumps, ignoring Beamon's, from
    the previous record.  It's been 23 years, and lot's of records have
    fallen over that time.  I'm curious to see if there was some sort of
    slow progression from the previous mark to Powell's distance.  I guess
    it might be darn difficult, if not impossible, to check this, as none
    of the jumps would have been a world mark when measured against the
    Beamon result.  
    
    JD, got any ideas on this?
    
    lEe

Lee,

I ain't positive, but i thought one of the factors with Beamon's
jump was the fact that others had NOT come that close to it....

just a guess tho.....

    That's why I'd like to see some detail, say the best jump of the year
    from Beamon to now.  Could be interesting, or useless.
    
    lEe

    Lee -
    
    From memory, the long jump record was being broken by 1/4", or 1/2" at
    best prior to Beamon.  It had been in the 26-27' range for a while. 
    Jumpers like the great Ralph Boston were dominant, and a Russian whose
    name escapes me.
    
    What made Beamon's record so unreal was that he broke the existing
    record by ~2 feet.  That was why it had been thought to be
    'unreachable'.  It was years and years until anyone even broke the 28'
    barrier, let along 29'.  I read that Beamon jumping over 2 feet than
    anyone else in history would be like a guy breaking the 100M dash by a
    second or more.  It was as close to superhuman as we've seen.
    
    As for Powell and Lewis - prior to this meet, only 2 men had ever
    jumped 29' - Beamon and >RoberT Emmiayan of the USSR.  29' was broached
    4 times - 1 by Powell, and amazingly, 3 times by Lewis.  Lewis had the
    greatest jump sequence in history - his worst jump was 28' 5 1/2" I
    believe.
    
    This may have been the greatest performance Lewis ever gave the world -
    the 100M WR, the great long jumps, and the fantastic anchor leg on the
    world record.   
    
    Overall, a fantastic meet.  I'm still digesting it.  The relays saw
    some real faux pas - the US  Women's 4 x 100 dropped the baton - the US
    drops the baton more than any other country!  In the W omen's 4 x 100
    final, Germany's coaches made a stupid mistake in running Grabbe second
    and trying to let Dreschler anchor - Drescher WAS a great sprinter -
    Grabbe was the double-gold winner.  I knew Marlene Ottey of Jamaica
    would cook Dreschler on the anchor leg - and she did.
    
    Likewise, the US really blew the 4 x400 men's final.  Danny Everett did
    not run well in the 3rd leg, and that cost them big time.  Only Quincy
    Watts on the 2nd leg ran a super leg.  The rest were ordinary.  Still
    the Brits should be commended, a fine, fine performance.
    
    Morcelli absolutely *CRUSHED* the 1500 final field in the last lap. 
    I've never seen anything like it.   The High Jump = nice performance by
    Austin, but the HJ will be hotly contested at Barcelona nexted year -
    especially if Patrik Sojnberg recovers completely from injury.
    
    More later on what may have been the best track meet since th 68
    Olympics.
    
    JD

    
    Lewis has always done pretty well at the Worlds. His Olympic
    performances have only been fair when compared to his Worlds. 
    
    He and Powell are alot alike and I expect this loss to have him
    putting a lot of pressure on himself to shine in Barcelona.
    
    All in all he's still an amazing athlete.
    
    

    Here are the Final Results - the 1991 World Champeens in track and
    field:
    
    Men:
    
    100M  Carl Lewis, USA 9.86 World Record
    200M  Michael Johnson, USA 20.01
    400M  Antonio Pettigrew USA 44.57
    800M  Billy Knochellah, Kenya 1:43.99
    
    1500M  Noureddine Morceli, Algeria 3:32.84 , Meet Record
    5000M  Yobes Ondieki, Kenya  13:14.45  Meet Record
    
    10000M  Moses Tanui, Kenya 27:38.74
    
    Marathon  Hiromi Taniguchi, Japan, 2:14:57
    
    110M Hurdles:  Greg Foster, USA 13.06
    400M Hurdles:  Samual Matete, Zambia 46.64
    
    HJ:  Charles Austin, US 7' 9.75"
    PV:  Sergei Bubka, USSR  19' 6.25"
    LJ:  Mike Powell, US  29' 4.25"  World Record
    TJ:  Kenny Harrison, USA 58' 4" 
    SP:  Werner Gunthor, Switzerland, 71' 11.25"
    
    DT:  Lars Riedel, Germany 217' 2"
    HT:  Yuriy Sedikh, USSR 268' 0"
    JT:  Kimmo Kinnunen, Finland 297' 11"
    
    Decathlon:  Dan O'Brien USA 8,812 points
    
    20K Walk:  Maruizio Damilano, Italy 1:19:37, Meet Record
    
    4 x100 relay:  USA (Cason, Burrell, Mitchell, Lewis) 37.50 World Record
    
    4 x 400 Relay:  Great Britian 2:57.53
    
    
    WOMEN:
    
    100M  Katrin Krabbe, Germany 10.99
    200M  Katrin Krabbe, Germany 22.09
    400M  Marie-Josee Perec, France 49.13
    800M  Lilia Nurutdinkova, USSR 1:57.50
    
    1500M  Hassiba Boulmerka, ALgeria 4:02.58
    3000M  Tatyana Dorovskikh, USSR 8:35.82
    
    10000M  Liz McColgan, Great Britain 31:14.31
    Marathon  Wanda Panfil, Poland 2:29:53
    
    100Hurdles  Lyudmila Narozhilenko, USSR 12.59
    400hurdles  Tatyana Ledovskaya, USSR 53.11 Meet REcord
    
    HJ  Heike Henkel, Germany, 6' 8.25"
    LJ  Jackie Joyner-Kersee, USA 24' .25"
    SP  Zhiong Huang, China 68' 4.25"
    DT  Tsvetanka Khristova, Bulgaria 233' 0"
    JT Demei Xu, China  225' 8"
    
    Heptathlon  Sabine Braun, Germany 6,493 points
    
    10K Walk  Alina Ivanova, USSR 42:57 Meet Record
    
    4x100 Relay:  Jamaica  41.94
    4x400 Relay:  USSR 3:18.43 

    Thanks for the long-jump info, JD.  Yeah, Beamon really flew that day. 
    I remember how shocking it was that he had surpassed the previous
    record by such a margin.  That's why I was curious about the latest
    record.  Amazing, ain't it?  These guys can jump further than I can
    run!  :*)
    
    lEe

    JD is the expert, and I'm going from memory here, but it was 5 years
    before anyone else broke 28'. Then it was advanced by bits and pieces
    until Lewis started challenging Beamon's mark.
    
    Speaking of a record shattering jump - how about Lewis' performance in
    Indiana back in 1982 ? He nailed what was said to be a 30-foot jump,
    but was called foul on the flimsiest of pretexts (no mark in the
    Plasticine) ....
    
    Anyhow, I enjoyed it throughly. I wonder how Carl feels, having been
    the Uncrowned Heir To Beamon, and then seeing this interloper blow him
    away .....

    Doc -
    
    YOu may be right - my field event memory is not as good as my track
    memory.
    
    On Lewis - my guess is that he was initially shocked - I think that
    showed in his face after the competition.  The thing about Carl that
    has always amazed me is his competitive nature - I won't be shocked if
    he goes and breaks Powell's record.
    
    JD

    
    A recent interview with Powell provided some insight into both men. The
    challenge of the record isn't nearly as much to either of these guys as
    it is to beat the other person. Their strength comes in challenging the
    best at the moment. If you look back at the tapes of the long jump you
    can see how they kept challenging each other. As soon as Lewis had the
    fouled jump over 29' you could almost see Powell turn it up a notch. 
    
    Both these guys will push the record again in Barcelona. 
    
    

    
    
    A drug appeals board of The Athletics Congress upheld a 2-year
    suspensions of shot putter Jim Doehring, whose random test in December,
    1980 showed a higher-than-allowed level of the male hormone
    testosterone.
    
    JD

Well, I have question about the limit.

Is the limit high enough above what might be considered normal for
an extraordinarily virile guy, so that it actually proves steriods?

I'm asking because when I read that, I though, gee, suppose this guy
is just naturally chocked full of testosterone?  I mean it's not likely,
but even so, it could be possible.

Can you shed more light on this JD???

'Saw

    Oops - that should be 1990, not 1980...
    
    JD

    Saw -
    
    I don't know much about the acceptable limits - he must have really 
    shown a high dose to warrant a suspension.  
    
    JD

    Here re the World >Track and Field leaders, by event (number in parens
    after current leader is the world record, except where current leader's
    time/effort is the world record):
    
    MEN:
    
    100M  Carl Lewis, USA 9.86 (WR)
    200M  Michael Johnson, USA 19.89  (19.72, Pietro Meana)
    400M  Michael Johnson, USA 44.17  (43.29, Butch Reynolds)
    800M  Jose Luis Barbosa, Spain 1:43.08  (1:41.73, Seb Coe)
    1500M  Noureddine Morcelli, Algeria 3:31.00 (3:29.46  Cram or Aouita??)
    5000M Yobes Ondieki, Kenya 13:01.82  (12:58.39 ??)
    10000M Richard Chelimo, Kenya 27:11.18  (27:08.23)
    Marathon:  Korichii Morishita, Japan 2:08:53  (2:06:51 Guy fromDjibouti)
    
    110 Hurdles: Tony Dees, USA 13.05  (12.52  Roger Kingdom?)
    400 Hurdles: Samuel Matete, Zambia 47.10   (47.02 Edwin Moses)
    20K Walk:  Aleksey Pershin, USSR 1:18:58  (1:18:40  ???)
    50K Walk:  Carlos Mercenario, Mexico 3:42:03  (3:41:39)
    
    4x100:  USA 37.50  (WR)
    4x400:  Great Britain  2:57.53  (2:56.16 USA Olympic team, 1968 & 1988)
    
    High Jump:  Charles Austin, USA 7'10"  (8'0" Javier Sotomayer)
    Pole Vault: Sergey Bubka, USSR 20'1"  (WR)
    Long Jump: Mike Powell, USA 29' 4.5"  (WR)
    Triple Jump: Kenny Harison, USA 58'4"  (58'11.5"  Willie Banks)
    Shot Put:  Werner Gunthor, Switzerland 72'3.5"  (75'10.25" Randy Barnes)
    Discus:  Mike Buncic, USA 227'7"  (243'0" ??)
    Hammer:  Igor Astapkovich, USSR 276'5"    (284'7"  some russian...)
    Javelin:  Seppo Raty, Finland 318'1"  (WR)
    Decathlon:  Dan O'Brien, USA 8844 points  (8847 Daley Thompson)
    
    
    JD
    

    In other T & F news:
    
    Hammer thrower John Billingsley, 25 of Tuscon, was suspended from
    competition for 2 years after testing positive for high levels of
    testosterone during the US Track and Field Champeenships, where he
    finished 8th.
    
    Butch Reynolds, appealing a 2-year ban for a postive steroids test,
    might have to wait until October for the result of last Friday's
    hearing by TAC.
    
    During the recent 13-hour hearing, John Gall, Reynolds' lawyer, asked
    anti-Reynolds witness and drug-testing expert Manfred Donike of Germany
    if the Paris lab that determined Reynolds' urine contained nandrolone
    had been the subject of investigation because of analysis problems.
    "He confirmed the lab has had problems identifying testerone...which
    was used to determine the supposed existance of nandrolone.  If there;s
    a God, we deserve a win," said Gall.
    
    JD

JD (and other track fans)

Do you beleive that Reynolds is "clean"?   I have no idea myself, but it seems
that his lawyer has at least doubt.  I hope he proves clean, because Reynolds
is a great athlete.

If indeed he didn't cheat, it is another blow to the integrety off the testing 
organizations, along with the Henry Marsh fiasco, etc

=Bob=

    Bob -
    
    I was shocked when Reynolds was suspended.  Nothing ever *seemed* to
    indicate steriod/hormone use.  No quick, obvious changes in body mass
    (ala Ben Johnson), no amazing gains in personal times (ala Ben again)-
    but you never know.
    
    All along, he's claimed innocence (normal), and all along there have
    been questions about the testing (no claims of mysterious bottles
    of liquid).
    
    JD

In road racing news:

The Digital Running Club posted a fourth place finnish in the Corporate Marathon
Champeenships at the Portland (OR) Marathon on Sunday.  Leading the effort,
finnishing second on the team and second in his age group in a time of 2 hours
59 minutes and 20 seconds was none other than John 'JD' Devlin.

Way to go JD!

=Bob=

    Congrats JD!!!!
    
    BTW, for the deen to wonk crowd, JD's average per/mile pace
    
    was somewhere between 7 minutes/mile and 7 minutes 3 seconds for
    
    each of the 26 miles.
    
    ~/~  <-  and Gail's average pace was WHAT?????
    
    C'mon JD, challenge her to a 50 miler!  I's pay to see the DEC
    
    version of Bobby Riggs and Billy Jean!!!!!
    
    Whatya say?
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
    
    

    JD,
    Quite a feat(s)!! (pardon the pun)  Great job!
    Now when are you and McCullough gonna have a marathon run-off?
    
    MikeL
     

Congrats JD....

But if I remember right, that's not even close to a PR for you, is it?

What is your PR, and WHY WERE YOU SO GOSH-DARNED SLOW?????


(Hey, someone has to keep him from gettin' a big haid!)

8^)

'Saw

    First, thanks. Second, Kev, actually that's 6:50.6 per mile ;-)
    
    Third,  I have no desire to run anything further than a marathon.
    I don't understand why anybody would want to do any type of
    ultrarunning.
    
    Fourth:  Frank - I only trained for about 10 1/2 weeks for this -
    starting at 0 miles due to injuries.  I missed basically the whole 
    year due to two injuries.  I usually have a 26 week training cycle.
    My haid ain't big.  I'm happy with the time - I ran exactly as I wanted
    to during the race - a faster last 13.1 miles than first 13.1, my
    fastest mile coming at Mile 20, and a faster last mile than first.
    And I placed as well as I could for the team (the guy in my age gropu
    that beat me ran a really good time in the 2:30's)
    
    JD

>    Fourth:  Frank - I only trained for about 10 1/2 weeks for this -
>    starting at 0 miles due to injuries.  I missed basically the whole 
>    year due to two injuries.  I usually have a 26 week training cycle.
>    My haid ain't big.  I'm happy with the time - I ran exactly as I wanted
>    to during the race - a faster last 13.1 miles than first 13.1, my
>    fastest mile coming at Mile 20, and a faster last mile than first.
>    And I placed as well as I could for the team (the guy in my age gropu
>    that beat me ran a really good time in the 2:30's)

Yeah, I figured that it must be injuries, because at one point not
long ago you mentioned that to me in mail or maybe even at the Sawmill.

And you and I both know that I couldn't do a sub 4:00 in my dreams, so
a sub 3:00 is still good.

But what is your PR?  I'm almost positive I've read that you ran a 2:45
at some point.....

What's next?  New York?  (probably not), but Bahston?  (Could be, if
so then we need to include a JD cheer-a-thon after our Pats day game)....


'Saw

    JD,
    
    
    Congrats again!!!  but....  I ain't no math major and I am past
    
    my 10th  anniversary of doing the 26+ thang (1x was enuff) but I'm
    
    almost certain that 7:03 was the average needed to break 3 hours.
    
    Where'd the 6:50 come from?  You barely broke 3:00.00.
    
    'snot an issue on your pace but what's the correct [average] pace
    
    to break 3:00?
    
    deen et al,
    
    Kev
    

    Congrats, JD.  Any time you run a race the way you planned it, you've
    got to be pleased.
    
    Kev, you need a 6:52 pace to break 3 hours in a marathon (180 minutes
    divided by 26.2 miles equals 6.87 minutes).
    
    Marathons and ultras are very different beasts.  JD would demolish Gail
    in a marathon.  If he ran smart, he'd probably beat her in a flat, sea
    level 50 miler without changing his training.  In a 50 mile mountain
    trail run, I'd bet the farm on Gail.  Unless, of course, JD decided to
    train for such a race first.
    
    Sid

Will you guys STOP.

I have to run 4 tomorrow at lunch and I'm tired already just hearing
you talk of all this nonsense about 26's and 50's....



Of course, many 8^) things.......

'Saw

    Way to go, JD.  Congrats.  
    
    Heck, I get tired DRIVING 26 miles!  :*)
    
    lEe

    
    I did a 50+ just the other day.
    
    I would have run the entire 75 feet to the car, but it wasn't raining
    all that hard.
    
    
    Dickstah
    

 Dickstah you're definately my co-noty of the year with Kwah...,hahahaha

 thanks JD and congrats....

 I was feeling pretty good about running a 5 miler sunday in about 45
 minutes and then I read you run and my head just spins. Them splits
 were great I mean I don't think I could break 7 minutes if I just
 went out and ran one stinkin little mile at full bore....

 hey atleast I finished. The only problem is I can't BLAM(tm) it on
 my age cause my SIL's boyfriend who's three years my senior ran the
 dam thing in 34 minutes....

 and of course my SIL add insult to injury by breaking 39....

 mike

    On a very old Bill Cosby album, he asks why somebody would want to run
    cross country running, cause all they get to do at the end is THROW
    UP!!!
    
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

    On a (recently rare) serious note, Saturday afternoon at 4:00PM
    
    on channel 4 (I think) there is going to be shown "The Million Dollar
    
    Mile", an actual race with something like the 10 best milers in the 
    
    world competing.  If the winner breaks the world record, they get a
    
    million bucks!  Seems that this might be a real mano-a-mano race
    
    without the traditional rabbit!  
    
    Might be an interesting break between footaball games however, the
    
    show is from 4-5pm and the race shouldn't take more than 3:50 seconds
    
    so be prepared for 56 minutes of endless dribble and commercials.
    
    HTH,
    Kev
    

    Kev -
    
    I could ruin it for you and give you the results.  The race was already
    held.  I won't list the results here, though, in case others watch it.
    
    JD

    The Butch Reynolds saga continues:
    
    Last week, a hearing panel of The Athletics Congress (TAC) recommended
    that his two-year steroids suspension be terminated.  The big loser may
    be the IAAF and drug-testing credibility.  The IOC-accredited Paris lab
    came off as lax and incompetent in the hearing.
    
    The next step towards reinstatement for Reynolds comes on November 16,
    when the IAAF has a meeting.  At that meeting, the IAAF is expected to
    either reinstate Reynolds, or order him to IAAF arbitration.
    
    For background:  Reynolds, the 400 meter record holder, was declared
    positive for nandrolone at an Aug. 12, 1990 meet in Monte Carlo, and
    suspended for 2 years.  
    
    Last Friday, TAC panelists criticized the Paris labs security and
    analysis.  While they said none of the issues raised by Reynolds' camp
    was sufficient to call him not guilty of the infraction, taken
    together, there is a strong case that can be made - enough that it
    leaves reasonable doubts.   
    
    Some examples:
    
    One of Reynolds' lawyers twice opened envopaks, the packages containing
    urine specimens, without breaking the supposedly tamper-proof seal.
    
    The Paris lab did not provide chain-of-custody forms.
    
    The lab chromatograph used to confirm the original tests malfunctioned,
    but the results were  accepted anyway.
    
    The lab did not introduce mandatory internal standards, know positive
    and negative samples.
    
    Drug-testing guru Manfred Donike of Germany, who testified to the
    reliability of the positive finding, nevertheless noted in
    correspondence to the IAAF that the Paris lab, currently under scrutiny
    for identification problems, could have confused nandrolone with
    another substance.
    
    Drug-testing expert Charles Yesalis of Penn State said that this ruling
    could hurt the IAAF drug-testing procedures.  "That was a big loss for
    them.  This case indicateds that the drug-testing process is
    problem-laden.  My reading is that the lawyers involved thought the IOC
    group was closing ranks, stonewalling, to protect the Paris Lab."
    
    
    JD

    What is that drug that Reynolds was tested for, and what does it do ?
    It doesn't *sound* like a steroid (but what do I know ? :-) ...
    
    Doc

    Doc -
    
    I'm not sure if the test showed it was steroids or growth hormones.
    
    Either way, there are now some serious doubts about the validity of the
    testing.  The IAAF is in a bind.  If they overturn Reynolds'
    suspension, they defacto admit that the lab screwed up - and open the
    door to other lawsuits.  If they uphold the suspension, they face a
    lawsuit by Reynolds, which could air some dirty laundry.  Of course,
    they *could* order him to arbitration, and keep dragging it out til
    after the US Trials next year - and then drop the case.  That way, they
    'lose' the story in the press (due to the trials) and punish Reynolds
    by making sure he doesn't compete in the Olympics.
    
    Of course, there is a reasonable case for the fact that Reynolds just
    *may* have been using illegal substances.
    
    JD

 
    Once again Lynn Jennings of Newmarket,NH by way of Harvard, Mass
   won the Tufts 10k, besting Wanda Panfil by 26 seconds. The win was
   Jennings' third straight Tufts win. 
    There was also a small and I mean real small 'men's rights' group
   protesting the exclusion of men from the race. I guess it just goes
   to show you that there's a thin line between fighting injustice and
   just plain having *way* too much free time on your hands.
    

>    There was also a small and I mean real small 'men's rights' group
>   protesting the exclusion of men from the race. I guess it just goes
>   to show you that there's a thin line between fighting injustice and
>   just plain having *way* too much free time on your hands.


Agreed.  I'd lump these fellas in with the three arm-chair "golfers"
who called CBS to complain about that ruling in PGA championship or
US Open or whatever....

To those individuals, i say:


		GET A LIFE!    

    
    I dunno, the thought of being surrounded by thousands of
    
    wimmin ath-a-letes trying to beat me to da finish DOES
    
    conjour up some rather pleasant thoughts.
    
    BTW, re: "way too much time"
    
    Didja forget that (for non-Deccies) yesterday was a holiday?  As I
    
    recall, someting to do with some chap named Christopher and a lotta
    
    people had the day off (i.e. "free time") so perhaps your comment
    
    was a bit too harse?
    
    Kev
    

Kev

I didn't make the comment, but I agree that those men protesting about the all
women nature of the race are off base.

No single race has done as much for women's running in New England as the Bonny 
Bell/Tufts 10K.  In fact it had impact on women's running in the world.  If 
having the field be al women is what was needed to do that, so be it.  Only in 
a handful of races does the winning woman get the spotlight all to herself, and 
I think it is great for the sport.

I think the "too much time on their hands" comment refered to the fact that 
these folks too the time to plan their protest, not that they spent their day
there yesterday.

Incidentally, the Digital team won first place honors in the Corporate Team 
catagory.

=Bob=

    Bob -
    
    I'm totally on the oppostie side of the fence - and I'll tell you why.
    
    Are there any "All-Male" races anymore?  None that I know of.  Why? 
    Cuz of women complaining about exclusion and all that.  If I tried to
    organize an all-male 10K in Boston, it would never happen.  Not one the
    size of Tufts.  
    
    Women want everything - to be able to compete in all races - and to
    have their own little special races.  I don't support the Tufts 10K. 
    Don't read the results, and frankly, don't give a damn that DEC won the
    corporate part of it.  
    
    I don't think the men are way off base.  For those of us who have
    competed for a long time, we've seen 'all-male' races - like the Bonnie
    Bell, go by the wayside due to pressures from women's groups.  Unfair,
    discriminatory, etc. was the cry.  Yet, women have no problems with
    supporting a double-standard like the Bonnie Bell.
    
    JD

    I wrote the note in question but Bob McCullough pretty much summed
   up my feelings.The reason why I said they had "way too much free time
   on their hands" is because you could tell just by looking at them that
   they weren't runners and there were only about three of them (not exactly
   a groundswell of support). If being allowed to race with a bunch of
   women is at the top of your priority list than I think some serious self-
   examination is in order. I'm not talking about you JD, I'm talking about
   the guys who spent an absolutely gorgeous day tilting at windmills.
   Furthermore race officials when asked about the protest said that they
   have never denied a man a chance to race and in fact some men have raced.
   If the men wanted to they were more than welcome to race. Women on the
   other hand had to struggle to be allowed to race in the Boston Marathon
   and other places as well. Seems to me there are far more worthy causes
   to fight for.
    

    Tommy -
    
    I hear you.   The guys may have been total losers for all I know.
    
    Basically, my feelings are that Men arent' allowed to do anything
    all-male anymore - all-male clubs, events, etc., are routinely attacked
    by feminists and outlawed - yet all-female clubs and events are allowed
    to happen with nary a whisper.  
    
    The race directors have given that stock answer about 'allowing males
    to compete' for a few years, after they were semi-challenged by a bunch
    of fairly decent male runners.  But in the races' early years, men were
    banned from the competition completely.
    
    Actually - I find it okay to have all-female AND all-male races.  It is
    too bad that women can't accept that.  They want to have their events
    AND be included in the other events.
    
    JD

    
>    Basically, my feelings are that Men arent' allowed to do anything
>    all-male anymore - all-male clubs, events, etc., are routinely attacked
>    by feminists and outlawed - yet all-female clubs and events are allowed
>    to happen with nary a whisper.  
    
 
     I mean they even let them drink right at the bar now how disgusting.
 Unless of course you are a bartender. ;^)

     As far all-women clubs etc, would you as a male really want to belong?
     The coversation must be real stimulating.  ;^)

     On the other the FBI aka United Women's league has the need to be involved
     in everything men do so that they can keep tabs on all men around the 
     world and then report back. Something to do with Misery loves company...

   Please many many smiles....

 ;^)

    Mike -
    
    Naw, I wouldn't want to belong to any women's clubs - so why do women
    want to belong to men's club.  THey aren't men - in case they didn't
    know that - and belong to a club isn't going to make them one ;-)
    
    JD

    Women-only road races are just one of the many categories of
    special races that are held to try to level the playing field
    a bit for certain groups on certain occasions.  Some others
    that come to mind are Masters-only races, the Special Olympics,
    and the TAC Nationals age-group races.  The only point I'm trying 
    to make here is that it isn't only women who sometimes get
    special treatment as a group.  And yes, it is special treatment,
    and it really is a treat, to be able to run in a women's only
    race once in a while.  But I wouldn't want to have to do all my
    racing at women-only races.
    
    I think there are good reasons for having women-only, or masters-only,
    or whatever-only races occasionally.  I know that for many women, in
    particular those who are new to running and/or competing, it is very
    intimidating to participate in a regular open road race.  There is
    a tremendous feeling of comraderie and support at women-only races
    such as the Bonne Bell/Tufts and the Great Legs races.  My first
    race was the Great Legs, in fact. The fact that it was only women
    made a big difference to me.  So these 'special' races do serve a
    positive purpose, and if there are men who could benefit from a men-only
    race, then perhaps there should be a few, special, men-only races.
    
    I think the problem that a lot of people have with the men-only format
    is that it seems like regression to an earlier time and place when
    men-only was not a special, once-in-a-while event and was instead the
    order of the day. Maybe someday when we all feel secure enough about
    our civil rights, men-only events won't make people (women especially,
    I suppose) feel so uncomfortable.  Jock Semple's memorable act in
    support of women's running wasn't all that long ago, ya' know!  
    
    

    I absolutely agree with what JD said.
    
    John

I guess this probably isn't the place to put my soapbox down, but here 
goes.

People in this country have turned into a bunch of wussy, whiney, 
thin-skinned people.

While I believe in equality and all that stuff, I don't necessary believe
that every single thing has to be mixed and mingled.

There is nothing in the world wrong with having men and women race 
together.   But there is also nothing wrong with having women-only
races, nor men-only races.

So many traditional things in this country have been stopped because
some people feel that ALL things must be mixed and mingled.


I don't know, I'm probably not doing a very good job of what I want
to say, but let me put forth this example....

I used to be a firefighter.  I never, ever had a problem about women
firefighters.  I measured a woman firefighter the same way I did
a guy firefighter:  a) do I feel safe when I'm in a burninb building
with them and b) could they get me out if I got hurt.
If a woman can fight a fire, and be there for a fellow firefighter who's
gone down, Amen.

That's cool and as it should be, and attempts to prevent her from doing
that are wrong.

On the other hand, let's say you have an all-male race that's been held
for 50 years and has a tradition behind it.  What is the point of 
having some rule and/or law make it open to women?  What is the point
of making an all-women race open to men?  None that I can see, except
to prove a point, and that's a bad reason, imo.....


'Saw

     re .171

       Very well said. You can add clydesdale races to the list of 
      special category races. 
         
      re. the rest 

       If Kathrine Switzer hadn't snuck into the field of the Boston
      Marathon (an 'all-male' race for 70 years) back in 1967 and if
      Jock Semple hadn't tried to physically remove her, where would 
      women's marathoning be today? Does anyone contend that women
      don't belong in the Boston Marathon because it was "tradition-
      ally" a male race? Of course not but they did back in 1967. At
      the risk of sounding sexist I love having women in the races and
      have never even for a second wished that the races were all-male
      nor until now did I even know any else did. The only honest reason to
      have 'men only' races would be to be exclusionary.
    

re .174:

	So then, the way I understand it is, that it's okay to have
	all-female races, all "butt-challenged" races (ie Clydesdales)
	etc etc etc.

	But an all-male race has only one function, and that is to be
	exclusionary...  Hmmm, makes perfect sense to me.

	With that in mind, perhaps we should just make the entire
	Olympics all-gender-mixed.  Rosa Mota could be running side-by-side
	in the Marathon with Bikila...

	Sounds good to me....


'Saw

        re .175
    
        So why exactly would you want an all-male road race ?

>        re .175
>    
>        So why exactly would you want an all-male road race ?


Well, there might be one that was one filled with great tradition.
I can't think of one off hand, but let's for the sake of argument
say that there was a road race some place that commemorated some
great feat the men of some town performed in colonial times.
For the sake of argument, let's say all the men of this one town
ran three miles to another town to form a bucket brigage to help
put out some major conflagration.

Over the years, a tradition sprang up surrounding the event.  There
were serious runners, and there might even be a few groups of guys,
say "waistline-challenged" like myself who might have run the race
in firehats pulling a hosecart.

The nature of the race isn't exclusionary, but it does commemorate
something men did a long time ago.

Opening the race to women, solely on the basis of the fact that it's
an all male race and that all-male races exists just to exclude women
is wrong.

Traditions in this country come in many forms, and not all are
gender mixed.   If that is the case, then why should everyone commemoration
of the tradition be gender mixed.

that's the only point I'm making.  Gender-mixing something just for the
reason that it's all-one-or-the-other is wrong.....IMO, of course.


'Saw

    well, first off, let me clarify some things.
    
    YEs, there should be co-ed races - in fact, MOST races should be.
    
    For many reasons:
    
    1.  Cost.  Way too expensive to stage different races.
    
    2.  Fun - hey, it's fun to have all types of folks in races.
    
    3.  Normal - men and women do everything together these days - so there
    is no reason not to have combined races.
    
    4.  Lots of other reasons - including fairness, non-discrimination,
    etc..
    
    Now that's cleared up:
    
    1.  Women's marathoning would still be in great shape, with or without
    the Jock Semple incident.  Why?  Because once again, we Americans think
    we are the only folks in the world.  Wrong.  It's a big world out
    there, and most of the great female marathoners are not Americans - in
    fact, most of the great female distance runners are not Americans.  
    
    What Semple did was assnine.  And no matter what, the race would have
    become co-ed anyway.  If that photographer isn't there to take the
    picture, the 'incident' would never have been as 'big'.
    
    2.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with having all-female races like
    the Bonnie Bell, and therew should be absolutely nothing wrong with
    having all-male races.   Would any Boston-based women's groups protest
    that if on a holiday, a male-sponsered road race was run through the
    streets of Boston?  I'd be willing to bet there would.
    
    3.  I have one personal experience relating to this - which is why I
    feel so strongly.
    
    Back in New York, a friend of mine started having an informal alumni
    race for guys who ran cross-country together in that part of New York.
    It was run at a state park - no entry fee - no prizes, with a get
    together afterwards for brews and pizza.  Nothing fancy.  (NOTE:  when
    these guys attended high school, there were NO girls' cross country
    teams in this part of New York - in fact, there weren't any til after I
    graduated from High School).
    
    Anyway, we had this for a few year's - nothing big - but a lot of fun. 
    Guys would come back from colleges around the country, and it wasn't
    really a competitive run - it was really an excuse to get together to
    B.S. with each other.
    
    Anyway, after one year's race, a women came over and asked about the
    race.  She was a 'jogger' who lived near the park.  My friend told her
    that it was just for us guys who had run against each other in high
    school - and all the rest.  ANd that we held it every year.
    
    Well, this race was 'announced' with a tiny ad in the local rag - and 
    about a week before it, my friend gets hit with a letter from an
    attorney in the state eeo office or something.  The race discriminates
    against women (filed by this woman) and since it is run at a park, has
    to be opened to females.  Really ticked us off - and the reason it did
    was because it wasn't a public race, and more importantly, eventually
    women would be in the race - because there would be alumni from the
    teams available (since all the schools did get girls teams eventually).
    
    My friend was really put through the ringer, we were denied access to
    the park, and it got publicity.
    
    So, we went to a local high school and ran the race, and partied
    afterwards.  But the mood and spirit wasn't there.  
    
    Why did that woman have to raise such a stink?  She ended up not
    wanting to run the race (she did it for the principle) - and she wasn't
    an alum....
    
    Oh well.
    
    That's why I have such feelings about these things.  Personal - yep -
    no bones about that.
    
    JD

    Also, one more thing - my friend who organized th race I talked about,
    was/is a track/cross-country coach. Currently, he's one of the most
    successful high school girls coaches in the country, with his teams
    having one state titles numerous times.  The kids he coaches absolutely
    adore him, and for the most part, they've become great adults.  The
    incident I talked about could have ruined his career.  Hard to get a
    coaching job as it is, without having allegations of discrimination
    sullying your resume...
    
    JD

     
      re. 'Saw
      
      That's an awful lot of 'what ifs' and 'for the sake of arguments'
      but the event you described sounds like the "Running of the Bulls" on
      tv's "Northern Exposure" where the men run through the center of town
      buck nekkid every spring.

      re.  JD
      
       Given the set of circumstances you described, that woman was way out
      of line but I still don't see the need for all-male *road* races.
      Somewhere in the vast expanse of this universe we call home, there is
      an issue we both agree on. An issue where we are of kindred spirit.
      For the life of me I can't imagine what it is. [mucho smiley faces]
      
    

>      re. 'Saw
>      
>      That's an awful lot of 'what ifs' and 'for the sake of arguments'
>      but the event you described sounds like the "Running of the Bulls" on
>      tv's "Northern Exposure" where the men run through the center of town
>      buck nekkid every spring.


heh heh heh.  Where do I sign up for that nekkid runnin?



What I was attempting to do was what JD did, in giving a reason for
a race to be all-male.  The difference was, I had to try to make
an argument on a hypothetical case, whereas he was able to pull one
from personal experience.


Actually, the funny part is that women want to run with men, I mean,
you have to have a co-ed road race, but ain't it funny how they also
have to have a women's division?  Now, somethin' ain't quite right
there.  You wanna mix it, why separate it wif divisions?

      
    

    Tommy -
    
    I'm sure we agree on something.   What is the need for all-female
    *road* races?  So that the women don't feel intimidated?  So that they
    get to feel the kindred spirit of running with members of their own
    sex?  Why caint men have the same?
    
    Of course, I have strong opinions regarding road races in general, and
    in race divisions, etc... but that's another can of worms.
    
    JD

    Good luck to Bob McCullough on Sunday in the Washington D.C. marathon!
    C'mon Bob, we want to see ya post a 2:50!!
    
    Go git 'em
    MikeL
    

    
    Good luck, Bob. 
    
    Hope you finish before your P-name reads "Lindsey is ovulating!"
    
    Dickstah
    

    Best of luck, Bob.  
    
    Give it your best, be satisfied with the time.
    
    lEe

    echo on the good luck & don't go out too fast for the first few
    miles.
    
    Dickstah, Rollling bigtime, good one!
    
    FWIW, Sunday is ALSO the Noo Yawk Marathon, probably be on NBC
    starting @11:30?
    
    Anybody here entered?
    
    Kev
    

>    Anybody here entered?
>    
>    Kev


Well, he's not a sports noter, but Chris, the dude you met at the 
Sawmill, is running on Sunday.  He's been training HARD for quite a 
while.

Yesterday, I was finishing my 3 miler, and he ran the last mile with
me.  I must've been turning about a 8:45 or a 9 pace.  He usually
gets between 6 and 6:20!  He must've felt like he was crawling!


I'll be watching the broadcast....

later,
'Saw    

I dunno....

I know I'll be waiting to find out his time on Monday...

Kev, Kev, Kev...


The lucky number is 2621....


He says come on down, and watch from 1st ave!


'Saw
    

Thanks everyone!

I'll be number 3489 if anyone catches the race.

I'll be vacationing in DC nexted week.  I'll post something when I get back...

=Bob=

Well, Chris did it!

His goal was to break 3:00:00 and he did it.


He finished 736th in a time of 2:55:22.  I believe he was also one of the
top ten finishers from the state of Connecticut.

Pat Peterson was the first US runner to finish, in a time of 2:20 something.
I think he finished like 21st.  

I guess the US has a long climb back to the top of the distance running
hill.


I adored the Scottish girl who won the women's division.  I could have
listened to her talk ALL day long....8^)


'Saw

    Congrats Chris!!!

re .193
    
    > I adored the Scottish girl who won the women's division.  I could have
    > listened to her talk ALL day long....8^)


    > 'Saw
    
    So Saw, it looks like you got a good dosage of ScotishSpeak over the
    weekend, eh? I gotta say, it IS one of the best accents around... not
    only the pronounciation, but the choice of words and expressions too.
    
    A couple a summers ago I played on a "fitba" team with 5 or 6 Scootsmin
    onna team, an' ye kin nae barley unnestan'em whin we were arra poob.
    --> Translation: 5 or 6 Scottish guys on the soccer team, and they were 
    difficult to understand, especially after having a few at the pub. In
    between ramblings on the "Auld Firm" (Glasgow Rangers vs Celtic), they
    would occasionally throw such gems as "Toom, yera fookin' disgrrrace,
    stoofin' yer face wi' a samwich whin ye gu' a whole pitcher a beer in
    fra'a'ya" --> I had the audacity of wanting soemthing to eat as well as
    a frosty mug of beer... "The best thing aboot spendin' alla yer mooney
    on drinkin is than ya haavent gu'it tae lend" was another fave. One guy 
    even named his kid after a bottle of scotch...No lie!
    
    Tom

Tom, 

My dad's side of the family is Scottish.  I go to the Highland Games
quite a bit in the summer, and I really do love it.

I could listen to Scottish folks talk all day long, and not miss too much
of what they're sayin'.

When the Scotland national side was here in my I was in my glory.

I'm going to Scotland someday, definitely.


The part about not lendin' any money had me rollward, because it's so
true. 


"What's worn under the kilt?"   "*Nothin's* **WORN** under the kilt"


If you get a chance, check out the Billy Connelly HBO Comedy Special
"Pale Blue Scottish Person"....  It's great.  Every time he says
"Havin' a bi' of a wank fer maself" I'd crack up....


'Saw

Well, I'm back.

The Marine Corps Marathon went ok, nothing great.  I ran 2:59, well off the 2:55
I was hoping for.  The first half of the race went fine, but I ran out of steam
at about at around mile 19.  I suffered in from there.

Vacation on the other hand, went great.  If any of you are in the D.C. area and 
like jazz, there's a little place called Blues Alley in Georgetown, that gets 
some super bands in.  I saw Nathan Paige, and Kenny Rankin was in the next 
night.  Dizzy Gilespie plays there about four times a year also.

RE: Liz McClogan (the Scottish lady who won NY)

She is really cute.  Her 'do' is just for running.  The amazing thing aobut her
win is that it was her first marathon.  She has done well on the roads, and 
particularly in cross country, but there is no way to really be prepared for how
your body will react to the marathon distance until you run it.

Oh yea, congrats to 'Saw's friend Chris.

=Bob=

    Bob -
    
    The funny thing about Liz M's hairdo is that in the last week, I've
    seen at least 3 women running down by the beach with that style. 
    Cracks me up - like they think if they wear their hair that way folks
    will THINK they are fast or something!
    
    jd

    JD what ever happened to Kirk Baptise ? He was probably the second
    fastest 200m man in the world in the early and mid-80's. I heard that
    he died of AIDS. Is that so ?
    
    Doc

    
    Doc -
    
    Don't know about Baptise.   Hadn't heard - but I'll check track and
    field news.
    
    Sprinting is funny - a guy can be on top of the world, get an injury,
    lose a step, and never be heard from again.
    
    JD

    Thanks JD. I know what you mean about here again and gone ... how about
    Franklin Jacobs, probably the most amazing  high-jumper that I ever
    saw.... held the world record after Dwight Stones, and he only stood
    about 5'9" or so. But he disappeared FAST. What happened to him ?

    
    Doc -
    
    From what I remember, a couple of things happened to Franklin Jacobs
    (Went to Fairly Rediculous University in Joisey - amazing to watch him
    jump.)   First, he hit his outer limits - he just couldn't improve. 
    Second - he jumped much, much better indoors than out.  Not sure why -
    but he did.  He had some sort of injury that forced him to miss some
    time.  And lastly - the guy went for a graduate degree, I believe, and
    spent more time hitting the books than working on the high jump.  
    
    He held (and might still hold) the record for jump differential
    (height jumped minus personal height = jump differential...)   He
    jumped about ~2 foot over his head!
    
    JD

    Yeah, he was utterly incredible, a jumping fireplug .... :-)
    
    Here's another question for ya : How does high-jumping and vertical
    leap relate to each other ? In other words, I'm certain that Stones or
    Jacobs can dunk a basketball (probably with flair), but I wonder how
    would Micheal Jordan, Chapman, 'Nique, or Spud do in the high jump ?
    
    Granted, technique means a lot, but if a couple of NBA leapers got
    involved, what would it mean to world records ?
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. Whatever happened to Willie Davenport ? Is he still running ? He
    must be 150 years old by now ... :-)

    Doc -
    Those hoopsters would have natural jumping ability - but of course -
    jumping over a stationary bar doing the Fosbury Flop is much, much
    different than doing a vertical leap - or 'gliding' in the air.  I'd
    think that they might be able to be decent high jumpers - but the
    discipline needed to get to world class status would be more than they
    ever put out playing and learning hoops.   Be interesting.  However, I
    knew a guy who high jumped 6'8" in high school - but could barely dunk
    a basketball (and he was about 6'3" tall...)
    
    Willie Davenport - ah - what a guy.  He's coaching, I believe,
    somewhere (I think college level).  The prettiest darn hurdling
    technique there was.  His performance in 76 was simply awesome.  To
    come back and win the bronze (he was gold medalist in 68...) was a
    great, great story...
    
    JD

I think a great Olympic story was that discus guy who was in a bunch
of Olympic games going back to when Jesus was wheeling and dealing
wif da Droods...

Al Oerter?  I'm thinkin' yeah.....

    
>>I think a great Olympic story was that discus guy who was in a bunch
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Wasn't that the character that Howie Mandel played on the now defunct
    "St. Elsewhere"?????????????????????????????
    
    JaKe
    

    Frank
    
    Al Oerter is the guy.  *4* time Olympic champ.  He won when he was on
    top of the world, and in 1968, I believe, he won by chucking a personal
    best (and I think WOrld Record) in the championship round.
    
    He tried a comeback (snuffed by the boycott of 1980) where at the age
    of 40-something (or older), he actually bettered his Olympic winning
    tosses and was starting to move up in the U.S.A rankings.  A true
    champion.  AL Oerter also won when hurting (pulled rib cage or some
    such - extremely painful for a discus hurler)...
    
    ONe of the best athletes this country ever produced...
    
    JD

    Arkansas won the Men's NCAA Cross Country Champeenships at Tucson,
    ARizona.  Iowas State was second, Wisconsin 3rd, Weber State 4th and
    Arizona 5th.  Sean Dollman of Western Kentucky took the individual
    honors, covering the 10,000 Meter course in 30:17.1  Niall Bruton and
    Brain Baker of Arkansas were 2 -3.
    
    On the women's side, Villanova won, with Arkasas 2nd (good day for the
    Razorbacks), Northern Arizona 3rd, Cornell 4th and Oregon 5th.  Sonia
    O'Sullivan of Villanova was first over the 5,000 Meter course in
    16:30.2.  Her Wildcat teammate, Carole Zajac was 2nd.
    
    JD

    re .209:
    
    Didn't Arkansas win both the men's and women's titles a couple years
    ago?
    
    
    py

 
 
      PITTSBURGH (UPI) -- Should a transsexual be allowed to compete as a
      woman in an amateur road race?
       That question comes before the Three Rivers Athletic Congress Sunday.
      The matter stems from a complaint filed against a transsexual who ran 
      in the women's field at the Great Race in Pittsburgh in September.
      ``This is a very complicated matter,'' TRAC President Bill Phelps
      said. ``From a purely legal standpoint, the transsexual is a woman. But
      we're also dealing with what's fair in amateur competition.''
       April Capwill, 40, of Erie, finished fifth in the women's master's
      division at the Great Race Sept. 29. The master's division is for
      runners at least 40 years old. Capwill said she was a man before
      undergoing a sex-change operation in 1976.
       The Great Race and TRAC, which santions the race, received a letter
      of complaint from Robin Pancerev of Erie two days after the race was
      run, saying Capwill was a transsexual.
       ``In the letter I told them I didn't think it was fair that we were
      competing against a transsexual who was allowed to enter the race as a
      female,'' Pancerev said. ``I thought she had unfair advantages and
      wanted them to check into it and rule on how she should compete.''
      Pancerev said she asked TRAC to rule whether Capwill should run in
      the men's division or in a separate division.
       TRAC is conducting a hearing to decide how transsexual runners should
      be declared for future races, Phelps said. There are no rules or
      guidelines regarding such issues, he said.
       If the issue can't be resolved locally, TRAC will refer it to The
      Athletics Congress, the national governing body of track and field, 
      for a ruling, Phelps said.
       ``What we may choose to do is prepare a written statement to pass
      along to the national body,'' he said.
    

    
    In a similar vein, wasn't there some discussion a few years back where
    it was suspected that some of the Russian women in the olympics were
    perhaps not real women?  Seems I remember some talk about "genetic
    testing" of the participants after the events were held.  I don't think
    they found any real wrongdoing.  Perhaps the routine drug testing that
    was later instituted to check steroid use made the physical examination
    of the participants a moot point.
    
    Dickstah
    

    
    >>In a similar vein,
    
    Or, in the case of he-to-she conversion, lack of a vein.
    many (8^)*'s
    
    
    JaKe
    

    here are the all-time winning streak leaders, by event.  Current
    streaks and their leaders in parens:
    
    MEN
    
    100M   Bob Hayes  49 straight wins (1962-64)  (Burrell and Cason - 2)
    200M  Manfred Gemar (Ger)  41 (56-60)  (Michael Johnson- 27)
    400M  Ardalion Ignatyev (USSR) 29 (52-56)  (M. Johnson - 15)
    800M  Mal Whitfield  40 (51- 54)  (Mark Everett - 2)
    1500M Josy Barthel (LUX) 17 - 1952  (Noureddine Morceli - 8)
    MILE  Herb Elliott (AUS) 35 (57 - 60) (Morceli - 5)
    Steeple  Gaston Roelants (BEL) 45  (61 - 66)  (many with 1)
    5000M Emil Zatopek (Cze) 48 (49 - 52)  (Yobes Ondieki - 4)
    10000M Zatopek  38 (48 - 54 )   ( two tied with 1)
    Marathon  Frank Shorter 6  (71 - 73 )  (Simon Roberts - 2)
    110H  Jack Davis  44  (52 - 55)  (Tony Dees - 5)
    400H  Edwin Moses 107 (77 - 87)  (Samuel Matete (23)
    
    
    More to come
    
    JD

    Track and Field News has released its yearly Male Athletes of the Year
    issue.
    
    This year's Male track and field AOY is Sergey Bubka, pole vaulter from
    Lithuania.  Bubka became the  first vaulter over 20'.
    
    The TOP 10:
    
    1.  Sergey Bubka
    2.  Carl Lewis (8th time in last 11 year's in top 10)
    3.  Michael Johnson (1990 AOY, had another great season)
    4.  Mike Powell (One leap into destiny.)
    5.  Dan O'Brien (First Decathlete since Daley Thompson in 82 in top 10)
    6.  Noureddine Morceli (Undefeated this year at 1500M and Mile)
    7.  Samuel Matete (The New Edwin Moses!)
    8.  Werner Gunthor (Swiss was only shot putter over 69'. Undefeated)
    9.  Leroy Burrel (Great sprint year.  9.88 and 9.90 100M)
    10. Moses Kiptanui (Kenyan steepler first to break 8:10)
    
    JD

    Here are the rankings by event:
    
    100 Meters:
    
    1.  Leroy Burrell   2.  Carl Lewis   3.  Dennis Mitchell
    
    200 Meters:
    
    1.  Michael Johnson  2. Frank Fredericks (Nambia) 3. Robson da Silva
    (brazil)
    
    400 Meters:
    
    1.  Michael Johnson  2. Antonio Pettigrew  3.  Roger Black  (UK)
    
    800 Meters:
    
    1.  Jose Luiz Barbosa (Brazil) 2.  Billy Konchellah (Kenya) 3.  Mark
    Everett
    
    1500 Meters:
    
    Nored Morceli (Algeria)  2.  Peter Elliott (UK) 3.  Wilfred Kirochi
    (kenya)
    
    Steeplechase:
    
    1. Moses Kiptanui (kenya)  2. Patrick Sang (Kenya) 3. Julius Kariuki
    (kenya)
    
    5000 Meters
    
    1.  Yobes Ondieki (kenya)  2. Fita Blyissa (ethiopia) 3. Salvatore
    Antibo (Italy)
    
    10000 Meters:
    
    1.  Moses Tanui (Kenya)  2. RIchard Chelimo (Kenya)  3.  Khalid Skah
    (Morroco)
    
    Marathon:
    
    1.  Hiromi Taniguchi (Japan) 2. Abebe Mekonnen (Ethiopia) 3. Jan Huruk
    (poland)
    
    110 Hurdles:
    
    1. Greg Foster  2.  Tony Dees  3.  Tony Jarrett (UK)
    
    400 Hurdles
    
    1. Samuel Matete (Zambia) 2.  Danny Harris  3.  Kris Akabusi (UK)
    
    20K Walk:
    
    1.  Mik Shchennikov (USSR) 2. Maurizio Damilano (Italy) 3. Yevgeniy
    Misyula (USSR)
    
    50K Walk:
    
    1.  Carlos Mercenario (Mexico) 2.  Andrey Perlov (USSR) 3.  Aleksandr
    Potashov (USSR)
    
    High Jump:
    
    1. Hollis Conway  2.  Javier Sotomayor (Cuba) 3.  Charles Austin
    
    Pole Vault:
    
    1.  Sergey Bubka  (USSR) 2.  Istvan Bagyula (Bulgaria) 3.  Rodion
    Gataullin (UUSR)
    
    Long Jump:
    
    1.  Mike Powell  2.  Carl Lewis  3.  Larry Myricks
    
    Triple Jump:
    
    1.  Kenny Harrison  2.  Leonid Voloshin  (USSR)  3.  Mike Conley
    
    Shot Put:
    
    1.  Werner Gunthor (Swiss)  2.  Georg Andersen (Norway)  3.  Lars Arvid
    Nilsen (Norway)
    
    
    DISCUS:
    
    1.  Roma Ubartas (Lituanian)  2.  Lars Riedel (Germany) 3. Attila
    Harvath (Hungary)
    
    Hammer:
    
    1.  Yuriy Syedikh (USSR)  2.  Igor Astapkovich (USSR) 3.  Tibor Gecsek
    (Hungary)
    
    Javelin
    
    1.  Seppo Raty (Finland)  2. Jan Zelezny (Czech) 3.  Steve Backley (UK)
    
    Decathlon
    
    1.  Dan O'Brien  2.  Mike Smith (Canada)  3. Christian Schenk (Germany)
    
    
    JD

    Here are the Top Ten US Track and Field Athletes:
    
    1.  Carl Lewis  
    2.  Michael Johnson
    3.  Mike Powell
    4.  Dan O'Brien
    5.  Leroy Burrell
    6.  Kenny Harrison
    7.  Greg Foster
    8.  Charles Austin
    9.  Antonio Pettigrew
    10. Hollis Conway
    
    JD

    Thought this was great (and kind of sad):
    
    Kenny Harrison, World Champeen in the Triple Jump, and top ranked
    triple jumper for the last two years, talking about fame.
    
    Seems that in Tokyo (Site of the WOrld Champeenships in AUgust), Kenny
    was mobbed by so many autograph seekers that he took to wearing a
    disguise when walking about the town.
    
    He doesn't have those problems here in the States, where he makes his
    home in Emeryville, CA (Next to Oakland).   When told that Harrison
    when the World Champeenship, mayor Greg Harper said, "You're kidding! 
    The world champion triple jumper lives here?"
    
    JD

    >	DISCUS:
    
    >	1.  Roma Ubartas (Lituanian)
    
    Couldn't let this pass without a hip hip hooray! :-)
    
    
    py

     From what I understand all of the winners of medals from the new 
    "Common Wealth" will be accepting them under the Olympic flag and
    not those of their respective countries...
    
    FWIW
    
    Big Game

    >  From what I understand all of the winners of medals from the new 
    >  "Common Wealth" will be accepting them under the Olympic flag and
    >  not those of their respective countries...
    
    Big Game, I'm almost positive that this will apply for all former Soviet
    republics *except* for the three Baltic nations (Estonia, Latvia, and
    Lithuania).   
    
    Anyone know for sure?
    
    
    py

    You could be right, like I said...  I heard it on TV so who the heck
    knows what the truth is.  Whe I heard it reported in was all members
    of the common wealth...  Oh well,  not trying to rain on the party.
    Just thought I'd share what I'd heard.  IMHO, I think they should
    collect them for their home country...  After all thats what the rest
    of the free world does !!
    
    BG

    Paul -
    also apoligies for first listing bubka as Luthiuanian - he's from the
    Ukraine.
    
    I thought teh Baltics were not part of the new USSR, therefore they'd
    get medals.  In the World Championships, the three Baltic states were
    treated as independent nations.
    
    JD

    That could be...  I wasn't sure if they were a part of the "new"
    union or not...  I'll check into it !
    
    BG

    Question about a note JD posted in the Super Bowl topic about
    decathletes.  What determines whether a decathlon score is
    "wind-aided"? If the wind is above the legal limit for just one of the
    ten events, is the entire score ineligible for record consideration?
    
    
    py

    Paul,
    
    I believe if the wind is above legal limits for any one of the events -
    the total score is considered wind-aided.
    
    JD

The US Women's Olympic Qualifying Marathon took place yesterday in Houston.  By 
all accounts it was an exciting, dramatic race, featuring NO live TV coverage.
Janis Klecker won in 2 hours, 30 minutes and 12 seconds.  She passed Cathy 
O'Brien with about a mile to go.  O'Brien's time was 2:30:26.  Francie Larrieu
Smith finished third in 2:30:39.

At about the 15 mile mark of the race, Klecker took a tumble at a water stop.
O'Brien, in an act of sportspersonship, stopped to help Klecker to her feet,
only to be passed by her shortly after the 25 mile mark.

=Bob=

    re .227:
    
    >             -< I wonder if anyone knew this happened... >-
    
    Not until I read the paper Monday morning.
                                
    When are the men's marathon trials?
    
    
    py

re .1

The men's trials are in Columbus, Oh, in April.  I get the feeling that there 
will be national TV coverage for them, even though the field appears weaker.

BTW - Digital's Peg Donovan from Auburn, NH finished (as I recall) 45 in the 
      race in about 2:47.

    Well despite being a big track and field fan, I didn't miss not having
    TV coverage.  To tell the truth, I rarely watch a marathon because I
    think its rather boring, and because the commentators don't know what
    to say for the whole dang thing.  I also think it detracts from other
    events that get no coverage.  Coverage of one marathon can take 3
    hours.  They could do a decent job covering a complete track and field
    meet in 3 hours - not a great job - but a good job.  I also find it
    hard to stomach that they won't show a complete 10K or a 5K race on the
    track due to time constraints - yet a typical marathon is over 4 times
    longer (time-wise) then a 10K race. 
    
    Of course, NBC used 35 minutes of air time to cover the men's 100Meter
    final at the World Championships.  The race took under 9.90 seconds to
    complete....
    
    JMHO
    
    JD

I agree that three hours of coverage for a marathon is excessive to those who 
are not really big fans of the sport.  Generally speaking the announcers are 
boobs, who know nothing about it - Marty Liquori comes to mind.  I personnally
enjoy every minute of watching the race.  There are tactics used early, and you 
can see if they pay off later.  There is the chance to follow your favorites, 
etc.  The middle distances, up to the 10,000 probably have more sheer thrills,
but the marathon is more dramatic.


More than lamenting the overall lack of coverage, I was pointing out that,
in the past, and I assume this year, the men's race has received ample coverage
(live, network television), while the womens race, which had the potential to be
more competitive, got nothing.

=Bob=

BTW - After a nice warm bath and a big meal, I always end my Patriots day 
      watching the tape of the Boston Marathon, looking for people I know 
      or myself running.

>I agree that three hours of coverage for a marathon is excessive to those who 
>are not really big fans of the sport.  Generally speaking the announcers are 

I like the coverage ABC does for the New York Marathon.

While the announcers may not be experts, ABC fills the time with a lot
of human interest stories (blind runners), a doctor wearing a heart
monitoring device, etc etc etc.

My only gripe is that with all of today's technology, they seem to have
an awful lot of glitches where signals (especially from the doctor last
year) fade out.


One of the most breath-taking shots in all of Sport is the shot from the
top of the tower on the Verrazano Bridge when the race starts.  Amazing...


'Saw

>I've never run New York, but in other big marathons I try to take a quick 
>look forward and back at the pack after the start.  To see all the runners, 
>bobbing along is really inspiring.

You ought to pop down to Manchester CT on Thanksgiving Day to run
in the Road Race there.  It's 4.75, and lasted year they had over 8K
people.  What a sea of humanity climbing the hill on Highland St.

Had a chance to say hello to Bill Rogers lasted Thanksgiving, on a
gorgeous day where I stood around and had a couple of beers (da beers)
afterwards!

If you decide to do it thised year, let me know, we'll do a
mini-get-together...


'Saw

    Saw -
    
    Not only does speeds sell - but Carl Lewis sells.  And the US dominates
    the 100M.
    
    Bob -
    
    I can watch a marathon - but admit that it takes a lot to keep my
    attention.   I'll check in and watch parts - and if it looks like a
    good race, I'll watch.  If a runner has a huge lead, I'll click it off.
    
    I do admit having a very rough time watching women's maratons,
    especially the US trials.  The times are just aren't that spectacular.
    
    I still got high blood pressure when I remember NBC leaving a highly
    competive 10,000 at the World Champeenships in ROme, to give us a live
    update of the women's marathon.  Rosa Mota was blowing the field away,
    and they wasted about 5-6 minutes showing her running all alone. 
    Meanwhile, when they got back to the 10,000, the race had been blown
    wide open by one of hte Kenyans in a great move.  The race was ruined.
    
    The Olympic coverage is worse because since the heyday of Shorter and
    Kenny Moore, the US hasn't faired to well in the men's division, and
    they'll keep showing hte US runners in the pack, trying to B.S. the
    uninformed viewers that they 'still have a chance'.  
    
    I guess because I'm a track and field person first, and a road runner
    person second, I don't grove on coverage of marathons and road races -
    but that's just good old personal choice.
    
    At one time I thought increased coverage of marathons would be good for
    track and field, because it would give more viewers an idea of what 
    running was all about.  Instead it either turned folks completely off,
    or made then marathon/road-racing fans - and didn't help track and
    field at all.  In fact, since the advent of increased road-race
    coverage, live track and field has just about disappeared from the TV
    screen (except on some cable channels) and its popularity has waned
    while road racing has increased.  And while I understand the appeal of
    the road-racing circuit - it's for everyone - track and field is the
    backbone of the sport.
    
    Anyway, didn't Jones or Wiedenbach finish 4th AGAIN - for the 3rd
    Olympics.
    
    Francie Larreau-Smith - can't believe she's still around!
    
    JD

JD

Lisa Wiedenbach did indeed finnish fourth for the third straight time.  Kim 
Jones had an injury, and dropped out at the 5K mark.  Gotta feel for Lisa, but 
at least thised time she was a solid minute behind Francie.

I basically agree that track and field's exposure has diminished in recent years.
I also agree that most T&F events are more exciting than road races.  I guess 
just like you are a T&F person, I'm more of a road racing person.  My T&F exper-
ience is limited to getting almost lapped in the 440 in high school, and doing 
only slightly better in the corporate meets we've run in together!

'Saw

Manchester is generally recognized as one of the top road races in the east.  
They always seem to get a top name field.  Thisted year, hmmm... see what I can 
do.

I've run races in Middletown, CT a couple of times.  They were great fun.  I'll 
never forget lining up next to an older guy (looked to be about lEe's age), who
was wearing nothing but a pair of running shorts.  

=Bob=

>'Saw
>
>Manchester is generally recognized as one of the top road races in the east.  
>They always seem to get a top name field.  Thisted year, hmmm... see what I can 
>do.

Look for me.

I'll be wearing my Wanderers jersey (green w/ black hoops) and probably
#5 on the back.

My red/black pickup truck will be parked in the lot one block up from 
the Army/Navy club.  I'll have beer.


hth,
'Saw

    I take it this means you won't be running in the race, 'Saw?

    Not 'Saw
    Ye see Mac, wif his (-)MPH, he'd never make it home for Thanksgiving
    dinner on Thanksgiving.
    
    Mucho 8^)'s
    MikeL
    

    Well 'Saw,
    You just lost that (-) MPH. That's decent time,dude. And I bets
    you have fun doing it. Now to improve my MPH, I always envision
    chasin' Heather Thomas.8^). Never catch her, but who cares,whatever
    gets ya through the race.
    
    MikeL
    

Well, the 40:04 was like an 8:30 pace, and I was probably 40 pounds
lighter than I am now.

Right now I'm probably cranking a 9:30 pace which would give me 45:07
or so.


I run the race for fun, and for tradition.  There is so much going on
along the route -- bands, bagpipers, even a keg at one spot...


My weight has gone up slightly, since I haven't been running, but HAVE
been working out in the weight room.  (The 'Saw is starting to develop
and upper body -- something that was MIA for about 33 years...)


8^)
'Saw

    A little late, but Heike Henkel was named the 1991 Women's Athlete of
    the Year by Track and Field News.
    
    The Top 10:
    
    1.  Heike Henkel, Germany  
    2.  Katrin Krabbe, Germany
    3.  Liz McColgan, Scotland
    4.  Lydmila Narozhilenko, the former USSR
    5.  Merlene Ottey, Jamaica
    6.  Marie-Jose Perec,  France
    7.  Jackie-Joyner-Kersee   US
    8.  Wanda Panfil, Poland
    9.  Tatyana Dorvskikh, the former USSR
    10. Heike Drechsler, Germany
    
    
    One interesting note is that Krabbe has been suspended for tampering
    with a urine speciman (yes, it was her urine speciman, Hawk), and is
    fighting the suspension.  Krabbe is a very pretty woman who has been
    touted as the Katrina Witt of Track and Field.  A suspension would mean
    no Olympics, and of course, no contracts...
    
    JD

    Individual Events LEaders:
    
    100M:  Merlene Ottey, Jamaica
    200M:  Kartin Krabbe, Germany
    400M:  Marie-Jose Perec, France
    800M:  Ana Quirot, Cuba
    1500M: Natalya Artyomova, USSR
    3000M: Tatyana Dorovskikh, USSR
    5000M: Elan Meyar, South Afica
    10000M: Liz McColgan, Great Britain
    Marathon:  Wanda Panfil, Poland
    100Hurdles: Lyudmila Narozhilenko, USSR
    400Hurdles: Sandra Patrick-Farmer, USA
    10Km Walk:  Alina Ivanova, USSR
    High Jump: Heike Henkel,  Germany
    Long Jump: Heike Drechsler, Germany
    Triple Jump: Inessa Kravets, USSR
    Shot Put:  Huang Zhihong, China
    Discus:  Ilke Wyludda, Germany
    Javelin:  Petra Meier-Felke, Germany
    Heptathlon:  Savine Braun, Germany
    
    JD

    
    More on the Katrin Krabbe suspension. She was suspended with two other
    German athletes (all three are from the former DDR), and the tampering
    with Urine speciman involves the allegation that the urine tests of all
    three (taken in South Africa) are all from the same person...
    
    There will be appeals.  
    
    JD

They're probably just mad at her because she dribbled down the side
of the cup....


Personally, I'd like to see a far more certain type of testing if they
have to test athletes.  I've heard of too many urine tests which get
screwed up....


Have they ever developed a test for blood-doping?


'Saw

    serves them right for playing with that stuff!

    >	Have they ever developed a test for blood-doping?
    
    I think so...didn't one of the medalists in the 1984 Olympic Men's
    10,000 meters (forget his name) get his medal taken away because he was
    caught blood-doping?
    
    
    py

To the best of my knowledge, there is no test for blood doping.  When you think 
about it, how would they test for it?  There is no foreign substance 
introduced to the athlete's system, so nothing to test for.

For years the great Mexican distance runners have been accused of blood doping.
The combination of altitude training and (if they do it) blood doping makes them
very tough.

=Bob=

Well, I would think they could tell by doing blood work and
doing cell counts, but I don't know if they do it.


I don't know if I read it in here, or if I heard it from another
friend, but one Olympic competitor had a note from his doctor.
Seems that the competitor (forget which event) has a testosterone
level five times that of a "normal" male.  But, that level is
normal for him....  Imagine what THAT would do to a drug test...


'Saw

    Blood doping is also called blood packing.   The first real allegations
    that I remember were directed at the great Finnish distance runner,
    Lasse Viren.  Viren, of course, won the 5K and 10K events at BOTH the
    Munich and MOntreal Olympics.   The accusations cames because
    betweenthe Olympics, Viren wasn't dominant - but sure did know how to
    peak.  Viren's non-Olympics teams, however, were very good - and in
    reality, he won with different race strategies at the Olympics, with
    the best being the 76 5000, when he played into the hands of the field
    and went for a slow pace, quick finish.  Viren didn't have the mile
    speed of those he was up against - but he outkicked them all.  
    
    JD

    Saw -
    
    I was wrong, in 1980, Oerter throw the discus 227' 11" - his P.R., and
    making him 6th all time on the USA P.R. list.  Mighty impressive.
    
    The more I think of the boycott of 1980, the more I think of the fact
    that the US had an extrememly strong T&F squad that was squandered...
    
    Virgin, Salazar, Rodgers, WIlkins, etc...
    
    JD

>    I was wrong, in 1980, Oerter throw the discus 227' 11" - his P.R., and
>    making him 6th all time on the USA P.R. list.  Mighty impressive.
    

That is truly amazing, because when you think about it, the man had
been in the sport almost (or possible over) 25 years.  How many athletes,
with the exception of the rare Gordie Howe, or baseball pitchers, do you
know who can be setting personal records 25 years after they started....


>    The more I think of the boycott of 1980, the more I think of the fact
>    that the US had an extrememly strong T&F squad that was squandered...
>    Virgin, Salazar, Rodgers, WIlkins, etc...
    

I agree.  In my mind, Salazar was the last great American hope in the
marathon.  Pat Peterson is impressive, because he works a 40 hour
week like the Common Man, but because of that, he's not competitive in 
the rarefied air of the world class elite...


Saw

    Saw -
    
    Oerter retired and worked for Grumman on Long Island, I believe.  In
    about 1977, he decided to stage a comeback.  He had kept himself in
    shape, but hadn't competed in years.   I think he finished 4th or 5th
    in the 1980 trials, but I may be wrong.  
    
    
    JD

>    Oerter retired and worked for Grumman on Long Island, I believe.  In
>    about 1977, he decided to stage a comeback.  He had kept himself in
>    shape, but hadn't competed in years.   I think he finished 4th or 5th
>    in the 1980 trials, but I may be wrong.  
    
I'm amazed.  That's really something.....

Well, last year, the magazine "Nature" published a study that said that 
woman would catch men on the athletic field first in track and field, 
and especially in the longer distances like the marathon.  Lots of 
people endorsed the study, though it was flawed, and many others, myself 
included, just laughed at it.   

The study concluded that by as early as 1998, the men's and women's 
marathon world record would stand at about 2:02.   All that would mean 
is that the woman's record would have to improve by an average of 3.5 
minutes EVERY year.  Any one even remotely knowledgeable with the sport 
would see the folly in that thinking.  


    There's more, of course.  There hasn't been a world record set in ANY
    woman's 
track and field event since the 1988 Olympics.  IN fact, malaise goes 
much beyond record setting - of the 16 Olympic events, *5* (the 800, 
1500, shot, discus and Heptathlon) have not had a change in the top *20* 
performers of all time.  IN the 100 and 3,000, there were ne changes in 
the top *10* of all time.  Only in the 200, 10,000, marathon, 100H, 400H 
and HJ has there been activity in the top 5.

In the history of woman's world records in Olympic events, starting in 
1916, you'll find only ONE previous year in which there wasn't a women's 
world record - that was in 1966.  1966, of course, was the year in 
which sex testing was instituted, and many big names suddenly retired 
from the sport.  

The main reason for the current 3-year drought?   Drug-testing.  (On 
both sides of coin, men and woman, the last 3 years have seen a dramatic 
rise in suspensions, including those of world record holders like Randy 
Barnes, Katrin Krabbe, Butch Reynolds, and the retirement of many that 
were suspected of drug use -such as FloJo and some eastern European 
competitors, and Sui Xinmei in the shot.)  Hopefully, the drug problem 
is being licked - and with increased drug testing and detection - along 
with the collapse of the Eastern European powers - the drought may 
continue for a few years - but then pick up again.   

Back to the "Nature" article:  Not only has the use of drugs helped in 
getting performances improved (and male hormones had a bigger effect on 
woman's athlete's than men...) - there is also the very simple fact that 
opportunities for participation have increased dramatically.  Woman 
didn't even compete in the Olympics until 1928, and as late as 1956 
there were only *9* events for woman at the Olympics.   So, naturally, 
the rate of improvement was better for men than woman - they were 
basically starting from scratch in many events (look at woman's 
marathons - wasn't that long ago that you couldn't find a woman 
marathoner!)

Take a look at the woman's records - most don't even match the U.S.A's 
boys high school records.  And in terms of development, the woman's 400
record is roughly equal to the men's mark of 1916; the 10,000 to that of 
1924, the high jump to 1937, and the 800 and mile don't even make it 
into this century.  

To put things in perspective, my P.R. for the 10000 meter would make me 
the 5th on the all-time woman's list.   The U.S. High School 10K record is 
about 1 minute, 45 seconds faster than the world record.   The world 
record holder in the mile, running her best time, would have finished 
4th in my High School's County Championships in 1977.  

It's unfortunate that obviously flawed studies like the one in 'Nature' 
can be published, and believed by so many people.   

JD

[Thanks to Track and Field news, especially HillTopics, for most of this 
background information.]
                                                                          

John Treacy won the LA Marathon yesterday, in a time of around 2:10(?),
perhaps 2:12....

A Brazilian was second, and he was trying to qualify for the Brazilian
Olympic team....


'Saw

    Saw, I think, was axing about the Men's Marathon Trials - here's the
    skinny:
    
    
    April 11, 1992 at COlumbus, Ohio.
    
    Here are Track and Field News' top 7 - in order.  The top 3, of course,
    will make the 'pics...
    
    1.)  Steve  Spence  - overwhelming favorite.  Finished 3rd in the World
    Champeenships in August.
    
    2.)  Ken Martin - coming off a good x-c trials
    
    3.)  Bill Reisfsnyder - in great condition.  Won on this course last
    November.  Altitude trained.
    
    the others with a good shot to break into the top 3:
    
    Ed Eyestone -  made the team in 1988 - fastest 10K of the top
    competitors.
    
    Bob Kempainen - unknown potential.  Ran 2:12 at Twin Cities.  Been
    reported to have some sort of injury.
    
    Don Johns - another unknown - up and comer.
    
    Tony Sandoval - sentimental pick (member of the 1980 team that didn't
    go due to boycott...)
    
    Other sentimental mentions wre Bill Donakowski and Alberto Salazar.
    
    Some of those listed as unknown quantities - all with 2:14/2:15
    credentials:
    
    Keith Brantly, Mattr Clayton, Bud Coates, Chris Fox, Ivan Huff, Dan
    Martinez, Dave Mora, Jon Sinclair, Steve Taylor...
    
    JD

Wow, has Pat Peterson slipped that far down?

He finished 10th in New York, but I've always followed him because he
puts in a full work week AND trains for marathons...


JD, do you think the US has a chance in Barcelona at winning a gold in the
'thon?


'Saw

    
    Saw -
    
    I'd be mega-surprised.  In fact, I'll be surprised if the USA wins a
    medal in any event over 800Meters.
    
    To put it in perspective, the USA did not have a performer in the top
    50 performances last year - although Spence, riding his 3rd in Tokyo,
    was ranked 5th in the world by Track and Field news.  
    
    But the marathon is volitile - the top 10 completely changed in the
    world form 1990 to 1991, and Spence was the only US repeater in the
    U.S. top ten.
    
    Right now, you'd have to bet on the Africans (Abebe Mekonnen, Ibrahim
    Hussein, Tesfaye Dadl), the Japanese (Hiromi Taniguchi, Shichi Morita,
    Koichi Morishita, Toru Mimura, Toru Kozasu).
    
    But some old veterans, like ROb De Castella have been making noise.
    
    The weather will play a big part.  1990 veterans who may be lurking in
    the shadows inlcude Gelino Bordin, Douglas Wakihuri, Steve Moneghetti,
    Juma Ikangaa.   
    
    South Africa could make some noise, led by Josia Skosana (2:10:29),
    David Tsebe (2:10:32) and Michael Scout (2:10:47).  
    
    I'd really be shocked to see a U.S. medal.  In fact, I'd think a top
    ten finish would be a wonderful achievement.  Other than Spence, we
    haven't fared well  in big marathons.  Ken Martin, who has a good
    chance to make our team, was 23rd in Tokyo, for example.  
    
    The Japanese, for example, have at least 11 competitors with better
    1991 results then our best (which was Martin's 2:12:06).
    
    JD 

I dunno, then JD, sounds like you're primed and ready.  We NEED you 8^)


That's really too bad, because I can remember the years when we were a 
dominant force in the marathon....Rogers, Shorter, Salazar....

What do you think hurt us so badly?  Could it be what the Japanese say,
that we want instant gratification -- relate that to track events and
you come up with "who wants to run the marathon?"


We need a new young marathon stud to come along....


'Saw

    While not an American, John Treacy could be a force - he just won at
    Los Angeles.
    
    John

    
    
    Saw -
    
    Many theories.  I've espoused many in here before.  being an old track
    and field man, I think the road racing boom has hurt American distance
    running, not helped it.   Folks stay competitive longer than they used
    to, and its harder for the young kids to break in - plus there are too
    many racing opportunities.  Personally, I don't think folks should do
    road races until they are out of college - and don't see much of a need
    to do them if they are competing in college.  
    
    With the advent of prizes at most road races - and monetary ones to
    boot - it is easier for an athlete to stay the 'big fish in the little
    pond' instead of risking the 'little fish in the big pond' route.
    
    SOme of the old steadfasts, like Marty Liquori and others, have also
    said that folks just don't do the track and speed work necessary to do
    the mile and shorter distance races.
    
    It's strange, more folks run marathons then ever before, but frankly
    its embarrassing when the U.S. can't even have ONE male run a sub 2:12
    marathon!
    
    If you notice, the road racing boom has not hurt us in the sprints or
    in the field events - cuz those folks don't do road races.  
    
    I think that their should be an elite road racing circuit, and prizes
    be only avaiable to the open division, male and female - no age
    divisions.   Leave that for the rest of the road races.  I'm talking
    events like Bolder Boulder, Cascade Runoff, Peachtree, Falmouth, etc.
    
    Make those races really special for competitors.  For the marathon -
    who knows.  The cycle may right itself, and the U.S. could return to
    the Shorter/Rogers/Salazar years.
    
    I'm also torn onthe issue of foreign distance runners on college teams. 
    I think its okay, but part of me feels we should be developing our own
    runners, instead of Ireland's or Kenya's.
    
    JD

    Ninj -
    
    Yeah, Tracy's win was something.  He may be gearing up for another
    medal performance in the marathon.  Can't count him out.  Like I said,
    the marathon is hard to predict.  The weather can play havoc with the
    field.  The makeup of the course - hilly, curvey, windy - can provide
    good handicaps.  
    
    JD

    I also think (and please don't bash me for this, JD) that 1.  The
    middle distance races, from the quarter up through the mile, are harder
    to train for than the longer races (cross-country on up) because you
    not only mix distance work, you have speed work.  If you're running a
    longer distance, you tend not to do as much speed work.  There's a
    built-in disincentive to not train for them because of the speed work
    needed.  2.  The money available in road racing and marathoning has
    gotten more people to run the longer distances at a younger age than
    they "should" when they really should be running middle distances. 
    Used to be middle distances were the glory races in high school and
    college and then as runners got older, they'd start running the longer
    distances to compensate for slowing down.  3.  With the money available
    in the States as opposed to overseas, there is more incentive to run
    more often instead of running 2-3 quality races a year.  I know how
    hard it is to recover from a marathon (I think over-running really hurt
    Bill Rodgers, for example) and I think it means more money for the
    runners, but slower times.
    
    John

I know that the composition of your muscle fibers pretty much determine
what you are good at.

if you have a lot of fast twitch fibers, you're a sprinter, if you
have a lot of slow twitch fibers you have more endurance.

I wonder if because of this, middle distance runners don't translate
well to the marathon.

Could a world class 10K really be a superb marathoner?


Just curious as to how those in the know view this....


Ninj, I agree with you on the recovery angle.  I would think that 3 marathons
per year max is about it...


'Saw


PS  I wonder how many Ultras those crazy friends of Sid run each year 8^)

    
    Will eating bran muffins help me get more fast-twitch fiber in my diet?
    
    Dickstah
    

    Ninj -
    
    No worry about a bash.  Excellent note.   Heck, I started out as a
    400 meter man, then moved up in high school to the mile/2 mile.  Cross
    country got me hooked on distance.   10K was my event by the time
    college was over.
    
    Saw -
    
    A good 10k man can be a good marathoner - it really comes down to
    mental toughness for the distance.  
    
    Shorter, Rogers, Salazar were all good 10K men.  Shorter was a decent
    miler - faster than Rogers.  Salazar was just a TALENT.  
    
    JD

Actually, you can develop your fast-twich muslce through training.  That is why,
as JD mentioned, it is important for distance runners to do speed work.

The lack of dominant American distance runners is somewhat paradoxical in nature.
There are those who argue that the Americans just aren't hungry enough, because
they have big shoe contracts, appearance money, and can live a "wealthy" 
American life style.  On the other hand, runners compare the money available to 
them, as compared to other athletes, and lament that they need to make more 
money, and that they have a difficult time making ends meet, forcing them to, 
for instance, seek races with apperance money, rather than ones which would 
leave them best prepared for the marathon.

Dickstah, try about a dozen barn muffins, then see how fast your twitches will 
run...

=Bob=

    
    >Dickstah, try about a dozen barn muffins
    
    Just how big are those suckahs, anyway?  Or do you mean "barn muffins"
    as opposed to "meadow muffins"?
    
    Dickstah
    

    Maybe he meant some barn muttons.
    Tastes good salted
    

    The NCAA INdoor Track and Field Champeenships were held over the
    weekend in Indianapolis.
    
    On the Men's side, Arkansas won the team Champeenship with 53 points,
    outdistancing Clemson (46), Florida (38), LSU (24), georgetown and Utep
    (23), North Carolina (21), Baylor (20), Iowa State (19), and Indiana,
    Ohio State and SMU (16).
    
    Individual Winners (if foreign athlete, marked with *)
    
    55M:   Michael Green * Clemson 6.06
           Obina Eregbu * (Iowa State)
    
    200M:  James Trapp  Clemson  20.66
           Chris Nelloms, Ohio State
    
    400M:  Deon Minor, Baylor  46.15
           Reggie Harris, North Carolina
    
    800M:  Rich Kenah, Georgetown  1:47.40
           Scott Peters, Florida
           Eric Nedeau, NORTHEASTERN ;-)
    
    Mile:  Andrew Keith * Providence, 4:02.39
           Graham Hood * Arkansas    4:03.88
    
    3000M: Josephat Kapkory * Washington State  7:59.04
           Bob Kennedy Indiana 
    
    5000M: Jon Brown *  Iowa State  13:42.92
           Marc Davis, Arizona  
    
    55H:   Allen Johnson, North Carolina  7.05 (NCAA Meet Record)
          Glenn Terry, Indiana                
    
    HJ:    Tom Lange, LSU 7' 6.5"
           Darrin Plab, Southern Illinois
    
    PV:    Istvan Bagyula * George Mason, 18' 4.5"
           Milke Halloway, Florida
    
    LJ:    Erick Walder, Arkansas  26' 3.5"
           Chris Sanders, Ohios State
    
    TJ:    Erick Walder, Arkansas  55' 4.75"
           Tyrone Scott, Texas
    
    35lb:  Christopher Epalle * SMU  72' 3.5"
           Mike Laaksonen *  UTEP
    
    SP:    Kevin Coleman Nebraska  65' 9.75"
           Shane Colins, Arizona State
    
    4x400: Baylor  3:04.89 (NCAA Meet Record)
           LSU
    
    4x800: Florida 7:18,23 (American Record)
           Georgetown
    
    
    
    JD

    
    Here are the women's results.  
    
    FLorida won the team champeenship with 40 points, followed by Stanford
    (26), Villanova (24), LSU, Providence and Wisconson (24), Georgia Tech,
    Nebraska (18), Texas (15) and UCLA (14)
    
    Individual Winners:
    
    55M;  Chryste Gaines, Stanford  6.68
          
    200M: Michele Collins, Houston  23.22
    
    400M: Maicel Malone, Arizona State  52.16
    
    800M: Mireille Sankatsing * Eastern Michigan  2:03.47
    
    Mile:  Karen Glerum * Iowa State  4:36.43
    
    3000M: Geraldine Hendricken * Providence 9:14.57
    
    5000M: Tracy Dahl, Iowa  15:26.27
    
    55H:   Gillian Russel * Miami  7.59
    
    HJ:    Natasha Alleyne * Georgia Tech 6' 2.5"
    
    LJ:    Jackie Edwards * Stanford  21' 8.75"
    
    TJ:   Leah Kirklin, Florida  43' 11.75"
    
    SP:   Dawn Dumble  UCLA  56' 11.25"
    
    4x400: Florida  3:33.10
    
    4x800:  Wisconsin  8:28.41
    
    
    JD

    As expected, Knya ran away (again) with the Men's and WOmen's titles at
    the World Cross Country Champeenships on Saturday at Franklin Park in
    Boston.  I sure hope some noters got the chance to go to this event. 
    I'd have been there if on the least coast.
    
    SENIOR MEN (12k):
    
    1.  John Ngugi, Kenya  37:05
    2.  William Mutwol, Kenya  37:17
    3.  Fita Bayesa, Ethiopia  37:18
    4.  Khalid Skah, Morocco   37:20
    5.  Richard Chelimo, Kenya 37:21
    6.  Steve Moneghetti, Australia  37:23
    7.  Donminic Kirui, Kenya   37:26
    8.  William Segei, Kenya    37:27
    9.  Thierrey Pantel, France 37:30
    10. Bruno Le Sturn,  France 37:33
    
    TEAM SCORES:
    
    1.  Kenya 46  2. France 145  3.  Great Britain  147  (USA 8th 263)
    
    
    SENIOR WOMEN (6K):
    
    1.  Lynn Jennings, USA 21:16   2. Catherina McKiernan, Ireland 21:18
    3.  ALbertina Dias, Portugal 21:19   4.  Vicki Huber, USA 21:34
    5.  Nadia Dandolo, Italy  21:35
    
    TEAM SCORES:
    
    Kenya  47   2. USA 77  3.  Ethiopia   96
    
    
    JUNIOR MEN (8K):
    
    1.   Ismael Kirul, Kenya  23:27   2.   Haile Silasie, Ethiopia  23:35
    3.  Josephat Machuka, Kenay  23:37  4.  Josephat Ndeti, Kenya  23:45
    5.  Tegnu Abebe, Ethiopia  23:50
    
    TEAM SCORES:
    
    1.  Kenya  18   2. Ethiopia 28  3.  Japan  90 (USA 9th 190)
    
    JUNIOR WOMEN (4k)
    
    1. Paula Radcliffe, Great Britain 13:30  2. Junxia Wang, China 13:35
    3. Lydia Cheromei, Kenya 13:43    4.  Jennifer Claque, Great Brit 13:44
    5.   ANja Smolders, Belgium  13:58
    
    TEAM SCORES:
    
    1.  Ethipia  55  2.  ROmania  59  3.  Kenya  59 (USA 9th 170)
    
     

Woops - I wrote this reply before I saw JD's round up, I cut out the straight
results, and will enter my sysnopsis. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a Track and Field related sport...

The World Cross Country Chameenships were held this past Friday and Saturday at
the sparkling new course in Boston's Franklin Park.  Not wanting to miss a
possible once in a lifetime opportunity, I hooked up with my buddy John on
Saturday morning and headed in to meet our other pal Phil.  We found a spot to
watch where we could see the runners on the course, and then slip into the
back of the stadium and catch them again.

The talk of the meet early on was the weather.  The snow of Thursday was four
inches deep at certain parts of the course, adding a whole new dimension to the
race.  Most of the runners were wearing t-shirts under their racing shirts, and
shorts.  It amazed many when, in both the men's and women's junior (under 20
years old) races there were several African runners (mostly Kenyans) in bare
feet!  

Without further ado, here are the results of the Senior races:

  o In the Senior women's race the story was local favorite Lynn Jennings, from
    Newmarket, New Hapshire, via Harvard, MA.  I swear that half the spectators
    there had some kind of connection to Lynn - a neighbor from Harvard, a
    school friend, etc., and the crowd was totally in her corner.

    As it turned out, she needed all the support she could get, as it was a
    three person race between Jennings, Catherina McKeirnen of Ireland, and
    Albertina Diaz of Portugal.  The three exchanged the lead from very early
    on.  The at the bottom of Bear Cage Hill (yes there are bear cages, left
    over from when there was a zoo there), Jennings would pull ahead, but on the
    flat, wet, mushy sections, McKeirnen would take over.  It turned out to be
    one of the most exciting finished I have ever seen, with Jennings leading
    with 200 yards to go, but then being past by McKeirnen.  Jennings mustered 
    an incredible kick, to pull ahead and win, as the crowd went wild.  Seldom
    have I seen a professional athlete so genuinely exuberant about a victory
    as Lynn Jennings.  At the awards ceremony she leaped for joy on the stand, 
    and waved to the crowd.

  o The men's race was not quite as close.  John Ngugi of Kenya was on a
    different page as everyone else, dominating from start to Finnish.  There
    were times that we clocked him as having a 30 second lead on the pack, made
    up largely of his countrymen, who were using a "wall" type tactic to keep
    other runners in the pack.   Ngugi was a past multiple winner in the 80's,
    so this victory was something of a comeback for him.  The move by his
    teammates paid off also, as Kenyans won 5 of the top ten places, incuding
    William Mutwal's second place, 13 seconds behind Ngugi.  Top 'merican was
    Todd Williams, who finished a very respectable 19th, making an excellent
    surge towards the end of the race.

I considered not attending this event, due to all the time I've spent away from
my family because of my own training.  I'm certainly glad I didn't.  I may
never get to a Super Bowl, or a World Series game in person, but now I can say I
saw the Worlds the year they were in Boston.

=Bob=

    Didn't see the races, but if Jennings was passed with 120 yards to go
    and won by two seconds she must've put on one hell of a finishing kick.
    
    Was the second place finish by the US senior women expected, or was it
    considered a bit of an upset?
    
    
    py

re: the US women

I don't think it was a particular upset for them to get second.  It was 
somehthing of a surprise for Vicki Huber to finish fourth, and that largely 
propelled the team to second.  Some of the folks I ran with yesterday felt that
is Gwynn Coogan had run (she was sick during the trials for the team, and thus
didn't make it), the US team would have won.

Lynn Jennings, IMHO, is the most dominant runner in her catagory in the world 
today, so any team with her on it is a threat.

=Bob=

    Actually, it isn't that surprising to have Huber, ex-Villanova stud
    (and a heart throb of mine) to finish 4th.  She's always been a great
    cross country runner.  
    
    Cross Country is what Jennings excels at (along with road races) - much
    like Pat Porter.  Unfortunately, Lynn gets her butt handed to her when
    she ventures onto the track against the elite.   But for some reason,
    some folks are better cross country and road racers than they are on
    the track.   However, what a fine race by Jennings.  
    
    Kenya is simply awesome.  I'm surprised by France's finish.  They must
    have some good x-c runners, cuz I haven't seen many French men near the
    top of the track circuit.   
    
    
    Bob - did Aoutia run for Morocco?  
    
    JD

    Bob -
    
    HAHA - I think Vicki got married.  Last time I saw her was at a track
    meet at Harvard (indoors) - she had just won her race (she was still at
    Villanova) and was walking up into the stands, putting her sweat suit
    on and looking a little lost - obvious looking for someone - so I said
    "Vicki, I think you are looking for me"  She turned and smiled - and
    said 'No, she was looking for the rest of her stuff.'  Later on I
    talked briefly with her - nice person - but I don't think her fiance
    liked it ;-)
    
    JD

JD --


It's obvious your lats scared her off....


hth,
'Saw

    Jim Doehring, the 1990 U.S shot put champeen who was suspendedafter
    testing positive for excessive amounts of the hormone testosterone, was
    reinstaned because of "procedures improprieties" at a testing
    laboratory, The Athletics Congress said Yesterday.
    
    JD

    Tim Lewis, Digital employee, won the 20K National Initational
    racewalking event Sunday in Washington, D.C.   Lewis' time was 1:28:57.
    Janice  McCafferty of Calgary, Canada, won the women's 10K racewalk in
    45:02 - which tied the Canadien woman's record held by Ann Peel.
    
    JD

    
    I read that the German Sports Federation (or whatever they're called)
    has lifted the suspension on Katrin Krabbe and she's now eligible
    (by their rules) to compete.
    
    I don't recall if a reason was given but apparently she's ineligible to 
    compete in the Olympic games, until the International Olympic Committee
    lifts THEIR suspension on her.
    
    On another note, Barcelona has gotten (to date) over 18,000
    applications for atheletes for the Summer games.  They have some kind
    of a limit of 15,000 so it looks like there will be some kind of
    ceiling with the number of atheletes each country can send.
    
    USA has something like 650-700 athletes and 225+ officials, trainers,
    etc. scheduled.  Hnadling this "ceiling" could be very interesting.
    Trails are held, folks are named to the team but then they can't go.
    
    Interesting......
    
    Kev
    
    

          <<< NAC::DISK$WORK295:[NOTESLIBRARY_1]RUNNING_CLUB.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< Running Notes >-
================================================================================
Note 992.0                  Butch Reynolds Vindicated                    1 reply
SLOAN::HOM                                          127 lines   8-MAY-1992 08:47
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nothing is immune to politics.

This article appeared in the Wall Street Journal May 8, 1992 was scanned
and converted to ASCII text using a pattern word recognition algorithm.
As such there are errors in the document but you get the gist of it.

Gim

Olympic Runner Fights Drug Rap
             
By FREDERICK C.  KLEIN

              
There's debate in track and field about whether the 400-meter event
should be called a "dash" or a "run," but there's no doubt that the
ordeal being undergone by Harry "Butch" Reynolds, who holds the world's
record at the distance, qualifies as a marathon.
               
On Aug.  12, 1990, after finishing third in a race in Monte Carlo,
Reynolds gave the urine sample that has come to be required in these
vigilant times.  Two months later, the International Amateur Athletic
Federation (IAAF), which regulates the sport world-wide, announced that
the sample had tested positive for nandrolone, an anabolic steroid, and
ordered him suspended forthwith.
               
Reynolds declares he has never used steroids or any other substance
forbidden to athletes.  He has spent almost two years in one or another
legal arena, trying to have the finding reversed and his competitor's
status restored.
               
Last October, The Athletics Congress (TAC), track and field's U.S.
governing body, exonerated him after a hearing and recommended that the
IAAF do the same.  After numerous delays, a panel of that organization
is scheduled to hear testimony in the matter in London on Sunday and
Monday.  If it agrees with TAC, the way will be open for Reynolds to run
in this summer's Olympics in Barcelona.  At the 1988 Games in Seoul, he
won a silver medal for placing second in his individual specially, and a
gold for anchoring the U.S.'s winning 4 x 400-meter relay team.
               
Has the lanky 28-year-old regained his confidence? "That's hard to say
after all that's gone on.  When I was first told of my suspension, I was
confident it was some sort of mistake that could be ironed out in a week
or two.  Now, all this time has passed and I'm still fighting.  It's
been a nightmare-the worst part of my life."
               
He goes on: "It hasn't been entirely bad.  I've learned things about
myself and other people that I never knew.  The trouble is, I've learned
a lot of stuff I wish I didn't know.  "
               
But Butch Reynolds's education, however painful, could have value to
others if it brings changes in the way track and field and, by extension,
other Olympic sports carry out the drug testing that has become as much a
part of their scene as stopwatches and tape measures.  The record in his
case, already voluminous, reveals evidence of sloppiness in the handling
and testing of urine samples that borders on the scandalous.
                    
Moreover, the IAAF has thumbed its nose at some "due-process"
procedures, and there have been allegations that, as a prime Olympic
component, it cared more about saving institutional face than seeing
justice done.  Reynolds's representatives note that the French
laboratory involved was the primary drug-testing facility for the 1992
Winter Games in Albertville.  They charge that, at the very least,
Olympic honchos delayed this weekend's hearing so that the lab's
credibility wouldn't be impugned before that event.
                    
Although the matter also has come before a U.S.  District Court and an
arbitrator picked through the U.S.  Olympic Committee, the key hearing
so far was before a TAC panel last September.  Testimony at that session
revealed the following:
                    
o The laboratory failed to produce required documents detailing the
  chain of custody of the urine samples from the time they were taken in
  Monte Carlo until they were analyzed in Paris, meaning that nobody
  really knew who handled them, or when.
                    
o A demonstration showed that the packages in which the samples were
  transported could be entered without their seals being broken.
                    
o Analysis of the "A" sample (each specimen is divided in two for
  confirmatory testing of "positive" results) showed a chemical
  relationship inconsistent with a finding of nandrolone.
                    
o Analysis of the "B" sample differed from that of the "A" sample in
  ways suggesting the two may have come from different people.
                    
o Requests that surviving parts of the Reynolds samples be turned over
  to him for independent testing were summarily rejected by IAAF.
                    
o A week after he ran at Monte Carlo, but before his urine given there
  was analyzed, Reynolds was tested after a race in Cologne, Germany.
  That sample came up "negative" in an analysis many times more
  sensitive than the one to which the Monte Carlo sample was subjected.
                    
TAC found for Reynolds and reinstated him for competition within the
U.S.  The

6-foot-3, 175-pound athlete, a graduate of Ohio State, has moved to Palo
Alto, Calif., from his home in Columbus, Ohio, to train with Brooks
Johnson, the coach at Stanford.
                  
He's run twice in recent weeks - at Stanford and at the Drake Relays on
April 25.  His 400-meter time at both meets was 45.92 seconds.  That's
more than two seconds above his world-record clocking of 43.29, set in
1988 at Zurich, but enough to make him smile.  "I didn't get under 46
seconds in 1988 until late May, so I'm ahead of schedule," he says.  No
matter how the IAAF rules, he plans to campaign in the U.S.  this
spring, through the late June Olympic Trials in New Orleans.
                  
He isn't smiling over the cost of his steroid trials, however.  In
dollars, that bill has come to more than $100,000 in legal and other
fees, and the disappearance of an income from his sport that, he says,
totaled more than $250,000 in both 1988 and 1989.  Also down the drain
were lucrative product-endorsement or personal-appearance contracts with
Nike, Firestone Tire and the U.S.  Postal Service, tied to the Barcelona
Olympics.  He doesn't expect those deals to be renewed even if he's
allowed to compete in the Games.
                  
And there have been other costs, no less real for being intangible.
"People I thought were friends suddenly stopped calling me.  My good
name was soiled, and I doubt I'll ever get it back entirely.  And I know
now that the people who run my sport put their own interests ahead of
those of the athletes," he says quietly.
                  
He concludes: "I used to be like most people; when I heard that somebody
was charged with doing something bad, I'd assume he'd done it.  I'll
never think that way again."

Article: 8312
From: clarinews@clarinet.com
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.sports.top
Subject: Reynolds to miss Olympics after drug suspension upheld
Date: 11 May 92 17:31:09 GMT
 
 
	LONDON (UPI) -- Butch Reynolds, the 400-meter record-holder, was ruled
ineligible for the Barcelona Olympics Monday when his two-year drug
suspension was upheld by track and field's governing body.
	The International Amateur Athletic Federation's arbitration panel
overruled a controversial decision last year by the U.S. track and field
body. The Athletics Congress had lifted the suspension of the 27-year-
old American.
	Reynolds is now unable to compete at the Barcelona Olympics, which
take place July 25-Aug. 9. His lawyer, John Gall, said his client was 
``extremely unhappy and upset.''
	The star runner's only option now is to take his case to court, but
Gall said: ``We have to discuss the situation before we make any
decisions. But Butch is a determined young man and he will fight to
clear his name.''
	Reynolds was suspended for two years by the IAAF after he tested
positive for the banned anabolic steroid nandrolone at a meet in Monaco
in August 1990.
	But last October a TAC panel said it found fault with the testing
procedure and the U.S. authorities voted unanimously to allow him to
compete until the matter was taken to arbitration.
	But after the two-day arbitration hearing at IAAF headquarters in
London at which Reynolds himself testified, IAAF Vice President Arne
Ljungqvist said: ``We do feel we have a doping case with one of our top
world athletes. Unfortunately, it is a fact.''
	Lauri Tarasti, the panel's chairman, said his group could not find 
``any doubt about the reliability of the findings and the testing
procedures.''
	``We decided to uphold the IAAF rule that he is ineligible for a
period of two years until Aug. 12 of this year,'' he said.
	TAC drug-testing experts, speaking on Reynolds' behalf, claimed the
difference between the runner's A and B samples from Monaco suggested
the urine came from more than one person.
	Said Tarasti: ``We could see they came from the same person, and no
real evidence had been presented to us to show they had not.''
	Reynolds set the 400 record (43.29 seconds) at a Grand Prix meet in
Zurich, Switzerland, on Aug. 17, 1988. He finished a surprising second
to compatriot Steve Lewis at the 1988 Seoul Olympics .

    What a load of crap ... :-(

Sad but true.

The powers that be in T&F haven't a clue about how to promote the sport while
keeping it clean.  Sad thing for a great sport.

=Bob=

    The IOC, the TAC, and the IAAF don't have a clue. They are afraid to
    admit a mistake - because it will open them up to all types of suits
    and charges.
    
    It's already been uncovered that the 
    'official' testing facilities have no adequate safeguards or security
    against tampering with samples.
    
    JD

    JD, do you think that other sprinters will boycott or protest in
    support of Butch ?
    
    And have you heard anything on Kirk Baptiste ?

    Doc -
    
    I doubt there would be a boycott.   I haven't been able  to dig up
    anything on Baptiste -  I'll keep my eye on the lookout.
    
    JD

The US Olympic Track and Field Trials are taking place (or perhaps finnished by
now) in New Orleans.  Some highlights that I recall off the top of my haid are:

o Carl Lewis, the superstar of the sport, will not be representing 'Merica in 
  the 100 Meters, after finnishing sixth (I won't say a distant sixth, because 
  the margin of victory is so slight in these events).  I recall the order of
  finnish being: 1. Dennis Mitchell
		 2. ???
		 3. Leroy Burrell

o Jackie Joyner-Kersee (Flo-Jo's SIL, the member of the family not on the juice)
  won the heptathalon, and will compete in it for the third (?) time in the 
  games.

o In the biggest story off the track, the Butch Reynolds situation ended up in
  the US Supreme Court.  Justice Stevens, who thought he would be getting out of
  weekend work when he was appointed, ruled that it was illegal for the 
  governing bodies of T&F to say that anyone who competed in the same event as
  Reynolds would face suspension.  I read that it appears that Reynold will be
  allowed to run, but I didn't hear if they went ahead with the event.
 
  If you didn't follow the story, Reynold was suspended for testing positive for
  'roids, but claimed the test procedure was flawed (he claimed his pee was 
  confused with a German's).  The US governiong body (TAC) supported him, but
  the IAAF (the international body) did not.

=Bob=

    Mary Decker Slaney did not qualify for the 3000 meter event for the
    Olympics...
    

    	Well, I guess this will give her something to whine about.
    
    	Scott

    Well, today's the big day... the one /Don's been saving up for...
    
    Decathlon trials today.... Dan, Dave, Dave, Dan... get pumped!
    

    	Hey Walt, I rate decathlons right up there/down there with soccer.

    Is Daley Thompson still a medal threat in the Decathalon? I always got
    a kick outa him. When he napped his pole in the pole-vault event in 88,
    the announcer went to interview him with the usual babble of inane
    questions like "Gee, that must have been a tough break for you, now
    that you can't win a medal in the decathalon..." Daley: "Not really,
    now I can go on holiday to Disneyland." 
    
    Always going agaisnt the grain of the "typical" athlete
    
    Tom 

    Dinz sPeaKs...
    
    I think Daley's injured or retired... not sure...
    
    

    Wouldn't surprise me if he retired. He would be pretty old to be
    competing, but you never know.
    
    Tom

Well, the Reebok "Dan and Dave" series came to a grinding halt this
weekend, as Dan O'Brien failed to clear any height in the pole vault,
which dropped him back to 11th place and out of competition for the
Top Three Qualifying spots....


There were several articles on this in yesterday's Courant, but probably
the best was Alan Greenberg's column (he who mercilessly bashes the Whalers),
and in it Greenberg talked not of O'Brien's failure, but of his class
as an individual, especially in his demeanor following the events and
at the press conference.


It's unfortunate that this happened, as I was looking forward to more of
the Dan and Dave stuff.  They said on the radio this morning that 
O'Brien was out probably $5 million per year following the Olympics, which
is what they figure he would have earned had he participated.


So, now Dave Johnson is carrying the hopes of the Decathalon team.


I wonder if Reebok is just gonna let this "die" or if they had contingency
plans for this type of circumstance.....


'Saw

       Someone on TeeVee yesterday said that Reebok (mercifully) pulled the
    ads immediately. Glad to see an end to the hype, not to 'Dan' though.
                                       Denny

Was thinking about this Decathalon thing over the weekend.

What blows my mind is how seemingly competitive these guys are, regarding
times and such.

What I'm getting at are that the times and distances these guys are 
achieving are darn good -- perhaps not world class, but darn good all the
same.  Dave Johnson cleared 17-something in the pole vault, and I know it's
not Bubka material, but it's still a good vault, I think.


I guess you can't use the phrase "Jack of All Trades, Master of None"
with these guys.....


'Saw

    Today's Globe (business section) says that Reebok is still planning
    on running the ads with Dave and maybe even Dan.
    
    I think it would be funny to have Dan walking away from the pole vault
    and the camera zooms in on his feet... and he's wearing Nikes.
    

    
    > "Jack of All Trades
    
    I guess a decathalon man would be a "Jock of All trades."
    

>    
>    I think it would be funny to have Dan walking away from the pole vault
>    and the camera zooms in on his feet... and he's wearing Nikes.


I would have hoped that Reebok would have done something about what 
a competitor Dan is and stuff like that.

America loves a winner (and so does Reebok) but I think the message that
Dan put across on Saturday, that of total class even in defeat, is a far
greater message than winning.

But I guess total class even in defeat doesn't make money.....

'Saw
    

Dan O'Brien followed others in doing what I, as a track fan, fail to comprehend.

Even though he's cleared higher heights, it is imperative to get on the board
in all events in a decathlon.  A gamble that cost him a shot at something
he's trained his whole life for - an Olympic medal.

Dave Johnson is no slouch.  Injuries bothered him all last year - which
saw the real rise of O'Brien.  johnson is the favorite for the Gold now.

But, this past week showed why trials are great - 5 world champeens from
Tokyo last summer did not make the USA Track and Field team.  It's refreshing
to see these folks have to earn a spot, and not have it selected by commercial
interest.  It's too bad Reebok didn't pick the decathlon team, so O'Brien would
be on it, or Nike so Greg FOster, Carl Lewis and ANtonio Pettigrew and
Kenny Harrison would be on it.

Big dissapointment will be if Patti Sue Plummer decides to forego the 1500 and
only run the 3000 - means that Mary Decker Yuch Slaney makes the team.  

New England swept the women's 10K.  I was glad to see Lynn Jennings make it -
she has a very spotty track record - while she's been untouchable on the roads.

If the USA doesn't use Michael Johnson to anchor the 4x400, they are insane.  
Which means they won't.

US should be heavy favorites to win the 100,200,400,4x100,4x400,decathlon, long
jump, 110 hurdles, and have a good chance in triple jump and shot put.  

Men's team,  on paper, is damn strong.  The USA Olympic Trials is probably the
best track and field meet in the world.  

Felt sorry for ROger Kingdom in the 110 hurdles.

Coverage, as usual, was cruddy (unless you know nothing about the sport).  It
was ludicrous for them to try to say Lewis made the team in the 200.  Anyone
with eyes saw he was outleaned.   Gave me a good chuckle.

If ever an athlete looked like she may have juiced a bit, it's Gwen Torrance.

ON to the 'pics.

Oh yeah, in the 800, Mr Jeckly/Hyde - Johnny Gray, ran another fantastic
time.  If he ever puts his mind to it in teh Pics, and runs a smart race (hear
that Johnny??), he could beat the Kenyans for the gold.  I just don't have
a lot of confidence in him, though.

JD

Yes, I was surprised that Dan passed at the lower heights.

His coach however said that passing was a no brainer -- they do it all the
time.

I tend to feel like you JD.  Put the points on the board every opportunity
you get.

Dan had a bad day on the worst day to have a bad day.....




'Saw

Saw -

I heard the coach.  However, if he knows the sport in general, he'd have
known of other big meets where it was a no-brainer to pass - and ended
up getting bit in the butt.

Both Dan and his coaches first goal should have been:  Finish in the top
3 and make the team.  Anything above that is 'gravy'.   Look at Jackie
Joyner K.  She did the good jump on jump 1 in the LJ comp - knew from the
distance she'd make the team, and passed the rest up.  Smart move.

If Dan had many any height, he'd be on the team.

Oh well.  Unless something happens, Dave Johnson will wear the gold, and
reap the rewards.

JD

>I heard the coach.  However, if he knows the sport in general, he'd have
>known of other big meets where it was a no-brainer to pass - and ended
>up getting bit in the butt.

I agree JD.  I mean, it isn't like rugby, but it's a very rare situation
on the pitch where you elect NOT to put points on the board.


>Oh well.  Unless something happens, Dave Johnson will wear the gold, and
>reap the rewards.

Yes, and Dan has stated that he is looking towards 1996.

I wonder what Reebok is going to do now.....


'Saw

I wonder how old Dan is?  4 years can be a long time to wait.  especially in
light of in 4 years, you may see the real emergence of the unified 
Germany in the games.  And the various ex-Soviet nations.

jd

>I wonder how old Dan is?  4 years can be a long time to wait.  especially in
>light of in 4 years, you may see the real emergence of the unified 
>Germany in the games.  And the various ex-Soviet nations.

I'm not sure how old he is.  If he's 28, it'll be pretty hard to come
out in four years.


'Saw

    > Dave Johnson is no slouch.  Injuries bothered him all last year - which
    > saw the real rise of O'Brien.  johnson is the favorite for the Gold now.
      
    Weren't you telling us earlier that the Reebok series was a farce
    because one of the competitors, Dan, was the current world champion
    and the other, Dave, was ranked only eighth or ninth in world? 
    A major turn of fortunes in this one.  I really feel bad for the
    guy, especially considering the class he showed afterwards.
    
    This is a perfect demonstration of the risks inherent in the way
    the US trials are held.  In general, I agree with the way they do
    it, because competition is what it's all about and in an event like
    the decathlon where it's head-to-head that's possible, but on the 
    other hand a combination of maybe a bad day and a major miscalculation 
    is keeping probably the best decathlete in the world out of the
    Games (I know he'd yet to prove that, but most of what I was hearing
    about the guy was whether or not he'd break the world record, not
    whether or not he'd make it).
    
    glenn
    
       

>    Weren't you telling us earlier that the Reebok series was a farce
>    because one of the competitors, Dan, was the current world champion
>    and the other, Dave, was ranked only eighth or ninth in world? 
>    A major turn of fortunes in this one.  I really feel bad for the
>    guy, especially considering the class he showed afterwards.
    

From what I remember, Dan won at the World Championships, and DAve
won at the Goodwill Games.

I think that Dave was ranked 6th.



>    This is a perfect demonstration of the risks inherent in the way
>    the US trials are held.  In general, I agree with the way they do
>    it, because competition is what it's all about and in an event like
>    the decathlon where it's head-to-head that's possible, but on the 
>    other hand a combination of maybe a bad day and a major miscalculation 
>    is keeping probably the best decathlete in the world out of the
>    Games (I know he'd yet to prove that, but most of what I was hearing
>    about the guy was whether or not he'd break the world record, not
>    whether or not he'd make it).
    

A bad day on the worst of days to have a bad day......


'Saw
    
       

Glenn -

IMO, at the time of the Reebok ads, the gold medal was virtually assured to
go to Dan.  Dave Johnson had been at the top, but injuries had really bothered
him - to the point where last year he was a shell of himself.  From his
performance, it looks like he's back.  

The commercials implied that the two were very close - and they weren.t

JD

>The commercials implied that the two were very close - and they weren.t

Could it have been said that they were the two closest Americans?


btw, the alternate (can't remember his name) is from Manchester CT.



'Saw

 Dan O'Brien did *NOT* have a bad day.   He simply miscalculated on a
 *HUGE* gamble and paid the price for it.   As JD said, the Olympic Trials
 are no time to be fooling with a no-points event in the decathlon.
 
 His coaches ought to do the honorable thing now and slit their wrists in a
 warm bathtub.
 
 FWIW, Bruce Jenner said afterwards that this was a "tragic" day for Dan
 O'Brien.   Please, Bruce, a little context here if you don't mind.   Sorry
 but I don't see much of a "tragedy" here.   He chose to pass at earlier
 pole vault heights and paid for it mogambo big time.   Ain't no one to
 blame but hisself.
 
 Bob Hunt

                                                          
> Dan O'Brien did *NOT* have a bad day.   He simply miscalculated on a
> *HUGE* gamble and paid the price for it.   As JD said, the Olympic Trials
> are no time to be fooling with a no-points event in the decathlon.

    No doubt.  By a bad day I meant he slipped up somewhere, *anywhere*, not
    that he was out there falling apart in all the events.  As I understood
    it, he was on a pace to break the world record no less...
    
    glenn
    

Well, I guess it's his norm to pass up on the lower heights.  I can't
see doing it on the biggest day of your life, though.

At any rate, he's out now.


But again, while it doesn't make much difference to the "America Love a Winner"
people, I personally am impressed at his poise, and character after he 
blew it.

I can think of a hundred athletes who would have thrown a tantrum, or 
refused to answer the questions at the press conference afterwards.


It's too bad.


And yes, I agree "tragic" is not the way to describe it.  I mean, it isn't
as if anyone lost their life, or was horribley maimed....


'Saw

    
> I can think of a hundred athletes who would have thrown a tantrum, or 
> refused to answer the questions at the press conference afterwards.
    
    You mean like Carl Lewis just did?
    
    glenn
    

    re...the last few replies saying Johnson is the gold medal favourite
    now.
    
    I suppose it all depends on what country you're from and which media you
    listen/read.  In Canada, they're saying that Mike Smith is the
    favourite now.  He finished second at the world's last year.
    
    
    A note on Daley Thompson......he failed in his last-ditch effort
    yesterday to qualify for the Olympics.
    
    pete

>> I can think of a hundred athletes who would have thrown a tantrum, or 
>> refused to answer the questions at the press conference afterwards.
    
 >   You mean like Carl Lewis just did?
    
    I missed this Glenn -- what happened?
    
    
    py

    
>>> I can think of a hundred athletes who would have thrown a tantrum, or 
>>> refused to answer the questions at the press conference afterwards.
    
 >>   You mean like Carl Lewis just did?
    
  >  I missed this Glenn -- what happened?
    
    From today's Globe:
    
    "Carl Lewis left Tad Gormley Stadium with a police escort after
    finishing fourth in the 200 final at the US Olympic Trials, refusing to
    enter the press tent and perhaps finding himself left only to compete
    in the long jump in the Games in Barcelona."
    
    Not a tantrum, maybe no big deal at all; just sounded as if the writer
    felt snubbed...
    
    glenn
    

    Not being a big Track and Field fan, I did find the trials very
    exciting. These athletes like any other athletes are in a big money
    market ie. endorcemnts. If the top athletes that failed to qualified
    put as much time on the track as they did in the front of the camera
    things may have been different for many. The margin of error is so small
    the folks have be 100% focused. It unfortunate for these folks. But
    I'll bet they would trade the millions back for a gold medal.
    
    On a more facetious note, are Dan Obrien and DAn Jansen one in the
    same.
    
    MM

Article 8933 of clari.sports.top:
Xref: nntpd.lkg.dec.com clari.sports.olympic:468 clari.sports.top:8933
Path: nntpd.lkg.dec.com!news.crl.dec.com!deccrl!decwrl!looking!clarinews
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.olympic,clari.sports.top
Subject: Daley gets second chance for Barcelona
Keywords: olympics
Message-ID: <oly-thompsonU2uT355pe@clarinet.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 13:03:04 PDT
ACategory: sports
Slugword: oly-thompson
Priority: major
Format: regular
ANPA: Wc: 415; Id: z5073; Sel: xxsm.; Adate: 6-29-355ped; V: sked
Approved: clarinews@clarinet.com
Codes: ysm.rxx., tnrb...., txia....

	LONDON (UPI) -- Decathlon star Daley Thompson, deemed a ``special man''
by Britain's track and field authorities, Monday received a rare second
chance to qualify for the Barcelona Olympics.
	Thompson, the Olympic gold medalist in 1980 and 1984, was a startling
selection on Britain's 99-member squad. But if the 33-year-old
decathlete is to appear in his fifth Summer Games he must meet the
Olympic decathlon qualifying standard before July 10.
	The nine-member selection panel had promised that no one would be
given extra time to win a spot on the team after the weekend's trials in
Birmingham.
	However, spokesman Tony Ward said Monday: ``I can understand that it
might be seen as controversial, but we've made a special exception for a
special man -- Daley Thompson. We think we owe it to him.''
	Thompson's international career appeared finished Sunday after David
Bigham became the only Briton this year to reach the qualifying mark of
7,850 points and earn his team berth.
	But, at a meeting in Birmingham after the trials, selectors
sympathized with a written plea from Thompson, who insists he could have
recovered from a shoulder injury in time for Barcelona. And, though he
has not completed a decathlon for four years, they decided to give him
12 days to achieve the standard.
	Ward admitted there had been much debate about the extraordinary
decision to change the selection rules at the last minute.
	``It's because Daley is a legend,'' he said. ``If a man of his
caliber writes to us to ask for extra time, we felt he had to be given
it.''
	Thompson's chances of going to Barcelona still hang in the balance.
He is still recovering from shoulder problems and may have to go to
Norway this weekend in a last-ditch attempt to qualify.
	Selectors also bent the rules to give an unexpected chance to six
other athletes who finished as top Britons in the trials but didn't meet
the qualifying standards.
	Peter Elliott (injured) and Matthew Yates (ill), Britain's two big
hopes at 1,500 meters, were told they must prove they are fit in the
next 19 days to be allowed to compete.
	Britain's squad includes all its eight individual European champions,
world champion Liz McColgan and sprint star Linford Christie. Javelin
thrower Tessa Sanderson will be going to a fifth Olympics.
	``It's probably the strongest team we've ever sent,'' Ward said. ``A
great blend of experience and young talent.''


    

    I hope Daley makes it. He was always a class act.
    
    Tom

With the easy qualifying criteria to be on the Irish or Italian national
teams,  what are the chances that Dan O'Brien could compete for either
of them.

Then Reebok would REALLY have an ad campaign......


'Saw

    No lEl, Death before DiNsMoRe is alot like RuGbY...
    
    REK

    Two big Olympic flops fared extremely well in their next competitions. 
    Sergei Bubka (sp?) set another world record in the pole vault, and Dan
    "Dan&Dave" O'Brien set a world record in the decathalon.

 But Dean Smith will *still* choke nexted March.
 
 Bob Hunt

    
    
    
Noureddine Morceli of Algeria broke Said Aouita's seven year old world record 
in the 1,500 meters sometime last week.  Morceli, 22, had been favored in the
distance in Barcelona but finished seventh.  At a meet in Rieta, Italy, he led
at 400 meters in 53.73, an astonishingly swift first lap, and ran the final 
lap in 54.96 to finish in 3:28.86, .60 of a second faster than the old mark.

(copied from last week's SI, naturally, without permission)

I remain,
a reading type o' reporter!
Kev

    
    I think this is the closest note to put this in.
    
    I forget the school involved but get a load of the NCAA's latest.
    
    A collegiate track team was found to have violated some NCAA rule
    (doesn't everybody?) so the NCAA did the following:
    
    1) Took back a 1988 NCAA Championship from something like the
    volleyball team
    2) Put the basketball team on 3 year suspension of sorts
    3) Put some other (non-track) team on suspension
    
    Didn't touch the track team!!!!!!
    
    It's screwie!  I'll look again tonight in the Woostah sports section
    and put in the names and actual facts if nobody beats me to it.
    
    I remain,
    shaking my haid once again at the NCAA!
    Kev
    

Article: 9414
From: clarinews@clarinet.com (UPI)
Newsgroups: clari.sports.misc,clari.local.texas
Subject: Tulsa hit with NCAA probation
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 15:03:01 PST
 
	OVERLAND PARK, Kan. (UPI) -- The NCAA Tuesday placed Tulsa's entire
athletic program on three years' probation and barred all teams from
1992-93 postseason competition because of major violations by its men's
and women's track and field teams.
	The NCAA Committee on Infractions said Tulsa encouraged athletes to
compete in track and field using fake names, allowed ineligible athletes
to compete and falsified participation lists.
	The committee found that the falsified forms by the former head track
and field coaches resulted in the university competing in Division I
track and field when it should have been placed at another level.
	``The lack of oversight and the lack of institutional resources for
track and field provided a climate for disregard for rules education,
and eligibility certification and a climate for unethical conduct among
the coaching staff,'' the NCAA said.
	However, the NCAA said it did not impose more stringent penalties
because of the university's cooperation in the investigation.

    
    The Woostah paper's report differed *significantly* from your posting
    so for everyone's reading pleasure, I'll post what THEY had to say.
    It's amazing how differenty the stories are.
    
    Stay tuned - you'll really like it!
    
    I remain,
    waiting to git outa here today!
    Kev
    

Mac -
They woulda put 'em on double-secret probation...;-)

JD

Arkansas won the Men's NCAA Cross Country Champeenship, and Villanova the
Woman's, yesterday at Bloomington, IND.

Bob Kennedy of Indiana won the 10K race in 39:15.3, and Carole Zajac of 
Villanova won the woman's 5K race in 17:01.9.

It was the Razorback's third consecutive title, and the 17th NCAA champeenship
for Coach John McDonnel, tying him with UTEP Ted Banks for the most ever by
a coach.

Men's TEAM:

1.  Arkansas  46   2. Wisonsin  87  3.  Providence 108  4. Villanova 153
5.  Michigan  214   6.  Notre Dame 246  7.  Navy 254  8.  Oregon  276
9.  Wake Forest 303  10. North Carolina State  305

Men's Individual:

Bob Kennedy, Indiana 30:15.3  
Gary Stolz, Stanford  30:56
Mark Carroll, Providence  31:00.3
Louie Quintana  Villanova  31:02.6
David Welsh, Arkansas  31:09.8
Jason Casiano, Wisconsin  31:11.5
Conor Holt, Oklahoma  31:13.1
Greg Keller, Navy  31:16.0
Edward O'Carroll, Western Kentucky  31:16.4
Matthew Smith, Michigan  31:17.9

Woman's Team:

1.  Villanova 123   2.  Arkansas  130  3.  Georgetown  131  4.  Cornell  167
5.  Providence  172  6. Wisconsin 179  7.  Penn State 179  8.  Michigan  186
9.  Northern Arizona 267  10.  Brigham Young  285

Women's Individual:

Carole Zajac, Villanova 17:01.9
Deena Drossin, Arkansas 17:13.7
Nnenna Lynch, Villanova 17:18.5
Janic Brown, William & Mary 17:20.5
Tracy Dahl, Morris, Iowa  17:26.5
Sinean Delahunty, Providence 17:33.0
Cheri Goddard , Villanova  17:33.4
Dorota Buczkowska, Brigham Young  17:34.09\
Fran ten Bensel, Nebraska 17:34.6
Amy Rudolph, Providence  17:37.5

    
    Great Showing by the Big East!
    
    'Nova, PC and Georgetown - all in the top 5 (includes wimmin and men)
    
    "Power East"
    
    I remain,
    liking it - the new name
    Kev
    

    
    read a little more about the Tulsa thign.  Apparently to be a Div. 1A
    school, you must have 14 teams competing at the collegiate level. 
    Apparently, the track team was the 14th, and was hanging on by a nail. 
    The coach would go to fraternities to dig up people just to compete in
    the meets, so that the other teams could continue at the 1A level.  
    
    Makes a little more sense to penalize the other teams.
    
    Brews

    
    Newly crowned NCAA Champion Bob Kennedy of Indiana sprinted past
    defending champion Todd Williams in the final 30 meters to win the
    10,000 meter TAC national cross-country title in Kenosha, Wisconsin. 
    Kennedy is the first man in 32 years to win both the NCAA and the U.S.
    cross country titles in the same season.  Kennedy edged Wiliams by a 
    meter and both finished in 29 minutes, 41 seconds over a muddy course. 
    Pat Porter, who led with 600 meters left before he was passed by
    Williams, finished 3rd in 29:45.
    
    NH locals should be happy to find out that Lynn Jennings, world x-c
    champ, happened to win her * SIXTH *  straight women's crown, in 20:26
    over a 6,000 meters course.  Second place was garnered by fellow
    Olympic team member Gwynn Coogan in 20:43.
    
    I remain,
    
    Kev_for_JD_(only in this note)!
    
    

Thanks for the results Kev.

I'll say it again, few people realize what a great and dominant athlete 
Lynn Jennings is.  She has won virtually everything in cross country over the 
past several years,  sety a lot of course records in road races, and been
versatile enough to be the top 10,000 meter woman in 'merica, and get a bronze
at the olympics.

IMO, she is one of the great athletes of our time.

=Bob=