Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    	I think the Broncos should concentrate on getting some
    	defensive help come draft day.  They need two DL, one or
    	two LBs, and two legitimate cornerbacks with speed (does
    	the Rocket wanna play corner in the pros?).
    
    	Claybroon

    re-1  Ditto except on the LBs.  I think they are only week there in the
    way they are used.  Wymon Henderson should be benched/waived as well as
    Holmes on the line.  If denver could get a big agressive DLinemen, then
    you could look for the defense to be very good.
    
      I feel 1 reason there passing defense lacks is do to the pressure
    that doesn't exsist.  This is why teams have had such great succsess
    throwing the ball against denver, 'cause when you have all day to throw
    the ball, eventually someone will be open.
    
      Denver still has a good ruch defense IMO.
    
       The offense is there if better plays are inserted.  REeves should do
    some "benchmarking" from other teams playbooks.
    
      Denver also better start looking for a QB in the next few drafts,
    'cause Elway won't last forever.  He just finished year #8.
    
    		T-bone  (thanks Claybroon)

    A major attitude adjustment is in order for this team. If Holmes
    tries anything cute like holding out again......he should be gone.
    If Kay or any other 2nd, 3rd or 4th time offender picks up so much
    as a jay walking ticket.....they're outta there. Henderson is just
    plain outta there. QB selection should be considered in later rounds.
    Winder leaving opens a slot for another rb. But I agree with earlier
    notes. Emphasis will be on defensive players both line and secondary.
    
    BoB 

    Denver will flip with the Rams tomorrow to decide who gets the 4th pick
    in the draft.  I wouldn't say Holmes is necessarily gone.  That holdout
    set him way back, and with a full camp he could return to his form of
    1989.  Cornerback is definitely a need, but I agree that the biggest
    problems are on the line.  The defensive problems aren't quite as bad
    as they've been made out to be, because Carreker and Braxton went down
    early in the season with injuries, and the move of Mecklenberg to the
    outside turned out to be a disaster.  But there's still more needs on
    the defensive side of the ball.
    
    The offensive line is a big problem area, especially when it comes to
    depth.  Backups at running back are the only other real need on
    offense.  I don't think it's necessary to look for a replacement to
    Elway yet. 
    
    I'd love to see the Broncos get Russell Maryland, but I don't even know
    if he'll last until the 4th pick.  Mel Kiper recently said the top 2
    players in the draft will be Rocket and Maryland.
    
    Top 3 areas of need for Denver IMO:
    1. Defensive Line
    2. Offensive Line
    3. Cornerback
    
    
    Joe

      Excuse my ignorance, but who is Russell Maryland?
    
    		Tim

    re .5:
    
    Russell Maryland is a defensive tackle from the University of Miami who
    is projected as one of the first few overall picks in the draft.
    
    
    py

      How big is he?  And how fast, plus any college stats would be nice?..
    
    		T-bone

    Anybody hear who won the coin flip between Rams and Broncos?
    
    BoB
    P.S. Only 5 more shopping days before WW III. 

    Maryland is 6-2, 272, and has ordinary speed, but is a very intense and
    aggressive player.
    
    Joe

I vote for Lyght or Williams

dancing Dorks need not  apply.

Mike JN (SIDJNOTY)

    Although it's very early, it seems like Toddy Lyght would be an
    excellent pick, assuming he's available at 4th and Maryland is already
    gone.  I was thumbing through a report by Joel Bishbaum the other day,
    and he said that Lyght is the 7th best cornerback prospect coming out
    since 1969.  That's pretty damm impressive!  Of course, that's only one
    man's view.  It'll be very interesting to see what the other 'experts'
    have to say about him as the draft nears.  I've heard his weaknesses
    are his speed (although it's considered to be above average), and his
    tackling.
    
    Joe

!?!?!?!??!!?!??!?

If speed and tackling are weaknesses
What the hail is he supposed to be doing at Cornerback for the Donks!?!?

Selling souvenier Officer Perry badges!?!?!

!?!?!?!?!?
Mike JN

    His speed is good, they're just saying it's not world-class.  It's one
    of the few 'weaknesses' they could point out in this guy, if you want
    to call it that.  As far as his tackling, it's something he can work on.
    If Lyght's cover skills are as good as reported, he's definitely worth
    a high pick.  Good cover guys come few and far between.
    
    Joe                      

From my draft report:

Todd Lyght:   6-1 181 speed: 4.3

May be the finest athlete in the'91 draft; has 
blazing speed, lightning quickness, very happy feet and great 
instincts. Will shut down an opponents best receiver 1-1, gives 
almost no cushion, is technically sound, plays smart. He hit 
hard, is a very sure, crisp tackler in the openfield, plays run 
well. May be 1st pick.

    
    Draft Lyte!
    
    Some say he's less thrilling.  I say he plays great!
    
    Dickstah
    

No flies on Dickstah

Mike JN

    RE .16
    
    Whose scouting report was this?  Certainly is an impressive one.

Todd Lyght is the pick in the Draft. 


Advantage is he can walk on the field and play from day 1. 
Alfred Williams is about 15lbs under weight. 
The Miami Hurricanes "danc'n fool" isn't a Bronco type player. 

Jeff

    I'm not really that excited about Alfred Williams, at least not as a
    top 10 pick.  Most scouts are projecting him at defensive end, but I
    think he's best suited as an outside 'backer.  One of his strengths is
    being able to drop back into coverage, and you'd be taking that away if
    you moved him to the line.  If someone did want to move him to the
    line, I think he would need to put on about 30 pounds, and he's had
    a hard time trying to put on weight.  
    
    IMO, not worth the 4th pick in the draft.
    
    Joe
        

     re-1   Alfred on the d-line?  He only weighs 235 lbs.  Another 10lbs
    and he would be great for LB.
    
      The donks need someone who can get to the QB.  Maybe they should hire
    Peters who the Vikes let go.  He luvs the pass rush defense, and thats
    exactly what denver needs.  Obviously Denver isn't going to get enough
    lineman to make a big impact, so if they have a guy that can teach them
    the method of getting to the QB, then they can make best of what they
    have.  SEem logical??
    
    
    		T-bone

    
    T-bone,
    
    	I thought exactly the same thing when I read that Peters had
    	been fired.  Cut loose Phillips and snatch up Peters!
    
    Claybroon

New England picked up Joe Collier as Defensive Co-ordinator.

They could have done worse... Collier was always considered one of the
best.

With him as D- Co-ordinator, the Donks never lost  to the 49ers. In
fact, the Broncos are the only team `the genius' bill Walsh failed to
beat... EVER... either in preseason or regular season.

Mike JN

    Yo Mike, your argument is kinda like an Iraqi bragging that the bomb
    that blew up his installation was dropped by a British Tornado and not
    an F-15E. 

    Dallas and at least 6 other teams are supposedly interested in
    acquiring Gerald Perry from the Broncos.
    
    The Broncos have stated that they will protect Ron Holmes and Dennis
    Smith under plan-B.  
    
    Joe

 I would think more teams that that would be interested in learning the
 "Denver Death Grip"(tm)....After all Gerald is the master of the hold...

 ;^)

 mike

    This is a bit late, but here is the players the Broncos left
    unprotected in plan B:
    
    Scott Beavers        G
    Kevin Clark          DB/KR
    Kip Corrington       S
    Scott Curtis         LB
    Rick Dennison        LB
    Blake Ezor           RB
    David Galloway       DE
    Paul Green           TE
    Mike Horan           P
    Tim Lucas            LB
    Marc Munford         LB
    Kerry Porter         RB
    Elliott Smith        CB
    Monte Smith          G
    Tim Stallworth       WR
    Anthony Thompson     LB
    Andre Townsend       DE
    David Treadwell      K
    Chris Verhulst       TE
    Sammy Winder         RB
    
    The losses that would hurt most, if they are indeed signed by another
    team, are Clark, Horan, Munford, and Paul Green.  Clark made a definite
    improvement in the return game late in the season.  Horan continues to
    be one of the league's punters, but I'm not too worried about Denver 
    losing him in plan B.  Munford has been a solid backup ILB, and has
    started on a number of occasions, and I think Green showed some
    potential to be a good pass-catching tight end.  Now that Mobley is
    history, Green has a very good shot to make the team next season. 
    Verhulst was highly sought after in last year's plan B, but the Broncos
    didn't use him much this past season.  The Broncos are reported to be
    mildly interested in Mark Bavaro.
    
    Joe

BEAVERS UNPROTECTED!?!?!

Where's my sword and trusty steed?!

Mike JN

    
    	ESPN reported lasted night that the Broncos hired Ernie Stautner
    	(former Cowboys asst. coach) to be their defensive coordinator.
    
    	What happened to Wade Phillips?
    
    	Claybroon

    Stautner is the new defensive line coach.  I think Bum Jr. is still the
    defensive boss.  For now.
    
    Dave W.

       ...and the Donks continue to be the 'home for retired Cowboys'.
                                        Denny

      Just catchin' up here,  but I think the Broncos ought to get the
    Cowboy  cheerleaders if they want to make this a Dallas org.  Actually, 
    they should bring back the Pony Express from years ago.
    
      I don't even think that they have high school chearleaders at donk
    games anymore.....
    
    		T-bone

    Yeh but who cheers for the Pumpkins(tm)?

    
    	Well folks, it seems that Gerald Perry (aka The Master of the
    	Denver Death Grip(tm)) has decided he would like to still play
    	in Denver.  He apologized to his teammates and to the fans and
    	wants to start anew.  
    
    	Claybroon

       gee,  this makes my day.....
    
      I wonder if he will even stay outta trouble long enough to get to
    training camp....thats if he doesn't hold out;^
    
    
      Linus???   Thats a good one!!!!!

    Everyone deserves a 2nd chance, but Perry's had 3 or 4.  With all the
    off-the-field problems Denver's had with its players the last few
    years, the last thing they should do now is bring back Perry.

    
    	I agree but who knows what Reeves is thinking.  He never said
    	"Good riddance!" when Perry announced his retirement.  Danny
    	made a point of not giving up on him.  Of course, it's hard to
    	make the team from a jail cell.  He's still got two (at least
    	one) court cases pending against him.
    
    	Claybroon

    The Broncos are expected to make their first plan B signing today,
    left cornerback Charles Dimry of the Atlanta Falcons.  He is 6', 180
    pounds and ran a 4.4 40 in a private workout for the Broncos.  He has
    been a starter for the Falcons for the past 2 seasons.  I guess the
    Broncos aren't sure how well Braxton will come back, even though he was
    expected to be fully recovered for next season.
    
    Joe

	Charles Dimry joined the Falcons' very weak secondary last year.
	He did start most of the time, which accounts for the fact that he
	was burned so many times.  The guy was awful last year.  This from
	an Atlanta resident who has been waiting for a resurgance from the
	Falcons.

	This is not a steal.  The Broncos can have him.

 Didn't Joe Montana and Jerry Rice have a monster day against Dimry ???   
 I know Randall Cunningham and the Eagles' wideouts carved him up.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Most of Rice's 5 TD's came against him .... but don't be too hard on
    Dimry yet. Rememeber, we're talking about Jerry Glanville here. He
    demands a lot of one on one coverage, and that's a formula for disaster
    for almost any CB. 
    
    Example : Why the hell wasn't Sanders covering Rice last year ? The
    best against the best, right ? Instead, the poor kid gets man to man,
    with no help, against the guy who may well be the best WR in NFL
    history. Ha.
    
    Example 2 : Glanville BURIED Richard Johnson on the Oilers last year
    in favor of his favorites Steve Brown, Patrick Allen and Jeff Donaldson.
    The Oilers got killed in 2-minute situations. If it wasn't fo the front
    office, Johnson would have been waived. Supposedly, Johnson didn't play
    Glanville's style of man to man.
    
    Pardee comes in, gives Rich a fair chance. He wins a starting job, and
    ties for the AFC lead in interceptions (first timean Oiler did that in
    10 years, and the 1st Oiler corner ever).
    
    So give Dimry a chance - leaving Atlanta may be the best thing that
    ever happened to him.
    
    Doc

    The Broncos have now officially signed 2 plan B free agents, CB Charles
    Dimry from Atlanta as expected, and guard Crawford Ker from Dallas. 
    Ker is expected to compete for a spot at left guard, and Juriga will
    move to left if Perry doesn't come back.  (And hopefully, he won't!)
    The Broncos, like most other teams, took a much different approach to
    plan B this year and only signed guys who they felt would seriously
    challenge for a roster spot, instead of signing a bunch of free agents,
    only to have half of 'em get cut before the end of training camp.
    
    Horan turned down offers from Washington and SF and will stay with the 
    Broncos.  He supposedly had a chance to become the highest paid punter 
    in NFL history.
    
    On the draft front, the Broncos are reportedly leaning toward Nebraska
    LB Mike Croel.
    
    Joe

    >>The Broncos, like most other teams, took a much different approach
    >>to plan B this year and only signed guys who thet felt would
    >>seriously challenge for a roster spot, instead of signing a bunch
    >>of free agents, only to have half of 'em get cut before the end
    >>of training camp.
    
    Gee, and to think it only took the Donks two years to figure out
    what Uncle Al's known all along. Who ever said donkeys were dumb
    animals anyhow?  :-)
    
    Carlos

      I see Carlos is back;^  
    
    	T-bone

    
    	Yeah T-Bone, and it only took him 3 months to recover from
    	the drubbing the Bills put on his Faiders(tm).  8-)
    
    	Claybroon

    
    	Clarence Kay was arrested for DUI.  I think this will be
    	strike 3 for him.......
    
    	Claybroon

    Re. .48 & .49
    
    And to think all this time I thought you guys didn't care, why, ol
    Claybroon was even counting the months .... how touching.
    
    Re. .50
    
    I think Kay averted the lifetime suspension because his b.a.l. was
    only .093, just below the intoxication limit of .1 percent.
    
    Carlos

      Kay is a good back up anymore.  He cost the Broncs 2 games last year
    with dropped passes in the endzone.  I don't think he will be as big of
    a loss as Reeves leads onto, same goes for Perry......
    
    	Tim

 Ah Danny just stockpiling excuse for another 5-11 season...next we'll be 
 hearing about Johnny's hangnails...

 mike

      re-1  Time will tell on the record.  The Broncos will either flop or
    go to the big one just like always.
    
      You just better hope your Stellers stay out of the cellers.....
    
    		Tim

    The latest news out of Denver is the Broncos won't draft Nick Bell or
    Todd Lyght.  The coaching staff doesn't consider Lyght much better than
    a handful of other corners available, and they probably won't pick a
    corner until at least until the 3rd round.
    
    Most likely scenario remains that they will take Croel with the 4th
    pick.  If Croel is gone, the word is they may take Alfred Williams.
    Another likely scenario is they would trade down with Dallas and get 2
    of their 1st-round picks, and probably take Eric Swann and a wide
    receiver.  The Broncos would probably give up their 4th pick and a
    later-round pick or their 4th pick and Perry for Dallas' 2 1st round
    picks.
    
    Joe

      Give up on Perry.  Dallas is another team with controversy, and ole
    Gerald (I never touched her) would fit right in.
    
      I hope the Broncos go defense all the way this year.  Only need 1
    offensive player for sure, and thats a good backup to Humphrey.
    
      The o-line should be ok for this year as long as they stay healthy.
    
    	T-bone

    Can't believe you're saying this stuff Tim.  The o-line and d-line seem
    to be the real needs for the Broncos IMHO.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

   I'd definitely like to see the Donks peddle Officer Perry. I keep
   hearing talk about Perry and the #4 to Dallas for the 12 and 13 pick.
   This would be a super deal.

   I'd also like to see Denver bring back Kelly at Tight End and dump
   Clarence Kay. Also, see them alternate starts between Shannon Sharpe
   and Mike (mumble), and get rid of one or more of the three dwarf amigos
   and pick up a good corner instead.

   I also had a picture sent to me of a shrine to John Elway located in
   MikeC's bedroom, right next to the Larry Bird shrine. I think that
   shows a lotta class on Child's part.

   Mike JN

Denver will deal the #4 pick to anybody for a combination pair of later 
1st rounders. They will pick Herman Moore, or Mike Pritchard for WR help. 
late 3rd will pick George Hemmingway. The draft is deep in wr and denver 
could easily deal Vance "can't dance" Johnson or Mark Jackson and the #4 
for Eric Swann and a wr. 

    Gary Kubiak will undergo surgery Friday morning to repair a ruptured
    disc in his lower back.  He suffered the injury a couple of weeks ago in
    weight training.  His future in football dependson the extent of the
    damage and the success of his recovery.  Denver may have to start the
    season without Kubiak, because they are talking at least 3 months but
    by the time he gets his strength back it could be into the season.
    
    This could definitely change Denver's early-round draft plans.
    
    Joe  

      Thats to bad about Kubiak, so now it looks as though they need a QB
    as well.
    
    		Tim

      Re-Glenn,   I think the O-line will be ok if they are healthy.  I
    also said they need defense allllll they way.  Safety is there only
    real strong points on defense right now IMO, with the exception of Meck
    at the inside.
    
      I think Pritchard would be a steal if he is still around when Denver
    has there opprotunities in later rounds.
    
    	Tim

    You're right Tim, Pritchart is really underated IMHO.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

    I'll be very surprised if Pritchard doesn't get picked in the first 
    round.
    
    Joe

 Tim,  actually 2 QBs'....

 JN, good one the other day I still owe on that one...

 ;^)

    Sept. 1       CINCINNATI        2pm
    Sept. 8       at LA Faiders     2pm
    Sept. 15      SEATTLE           2pm
    Sept. 22      SAN DIEGO         2pm
    Sept. 29      at Minnesota      6pm
    Oct. 6        at Houston        11am
    Oct. 13       Bye               
    Oct. 20       KANSAS CITY       2pm
    Oct. 27       at New Engand     11am
    Nov. 3        PITTSBURGH        6pm
    Nov. 10       LA FAIDERS        2pm
    Nov. 17       at Kansas City    11am
    Nov. 24       at Seattle        2pm
    Dec. 1        NEW ENGLAND       2pm
    Dec. 8        at Cleveland      11am
    Dec. 15       PHOENIX           2pm
    Dec. 22       at San Diego      2pm
    
    
    All times are Mountain
                          

    Their first win won't come until Oct. 27th and they'll be lucky
    to win that one, hee hee heeeee.....:-)  God, I love Donk bashing!
    
    Carlos

    Carlos........
    
	
    	Do Mark Lefebvre!  ;^)
    
    Faiders sip!
    
    Claybroon

   The word is that the Donks are negotiating with the Brownstains (tm)
   for the #2 slot, and they want Todd Lyght.

   I still wish they could make a deal with Dallas for the 12 and 13
   picks.

   Mike JN

    1st round-Mike Croel, OLB, Nebraska, 6-2, 232 lbs.
    I was upset that they didn't pick Lyght when he was available, but it's
    one of those things where we'll just have to wait a year or 2 and see
    how it turns out.  I sure hope I'm wrong.  Croel is extremely quick for
    a linebacker, and they say he can even cover a wide receiver he's so
    fast.  He's also a very good pass-rusher.  I watched my tape of the
    CU-Nebraska game the other night, and wasn't particularly impressed by
    Croel.  He seemed to be blocked out of the play fairly easily, but his
    speed was definitely evident.  In defense of him though, Nebraska sent
    him back in coverage quite a bit, CU didn't pass all that much, and
    they ran away from him alot.  Plus, that's only one game.  
    
    2nd round-Reggie Johnson, TE, Florida State, 6-1, 256 lbs.
    Great blocking tight end, but certainly not a great receiver, although
    they didn't throw the ball to him that much at FSU.  I think he's an
    excellent player for Reeves' offense, but he probably could've been had
    in the 3rd or even 4th round.  Plus, Adrian Cooper of Oklahoma was also
    a great blocker and a little more proven as a receiver.  Cooper was
    taken in the 4th by Pittsburgh.
    
    3rd round-Keith Traylor, ILB, Central State, Oklahoma, 6-2, 260 lbs.
    May have been the best ILB in this draft, and I saw him projected by
    some experts as a first-rounder.  Denver certainly wasn't going for
    need here, but they probably took the best player available with this
    pick.  The 4 starters at LB are very solid (assuming Croel to be a
    starter) but they do need the depth, and this guy hopefully will
    provide it.
    
    4th round-Derek Russell, WR, Arkansas, 6-0, 179 lbs.
    Great move by Denver here.  They didn't have a 4th round pick, but
    traded Gerald Perry and a 12th round pick to the Rams for this pick and
    Gaston Green.  Green was a 1st round pick 3 years ago.  He was 4th in
    the league in kickoff returns and will probably end up being that
    backup to Humphrey.  If Perry gets suspended by the league, Denver will
    send a future draft pick to the Rams.  As for Russell, he's not afraid
    to go over the middle and averaged over 20 yards a reception last year. 
    If Denver goes with 5 WR's, Russell, Sharpe, or Nattiel will probably
    be the odd man out.
    
    Since Denver didn't take a QB, they probably either think Kubiak will
    be ready for the regular season or have their sights set on a trade. 
    They are supposedly interested in Scott Erney, who is the starter for
    Barcelona of the WLAF.  Reeves said he would've taken Dan McGuire if he
    was still on the board when Denver picked in the 2nd round.
    
    Joe

   Did Craig Erickson (QB Miami) get picked yet?
   He wouldn't be a bad Elway backup, and he would have a couple years to
   learn the system, either as the heir designate, if he were to blossom,
   or as a continued backup when Elway's replacement comes along.

   Mike JN

    Today's Bronco picks:
    
    5th round-Greg Lewis, RB, Washington
    6th round-Nick Subis, OL, San Diego State
    7th round-no pick
    8th round-Kenny Walker, DE, Nebraska
    9th round-Don Gibson, OL, USC
    10th round-Curtis Mayfield, WR, Oklahoma State
    
    Personally, I don't understand Denver picking Lewis.  I don't know when
    or where Erickson went, but they said he was available.  Plus, Lewis
    projects as nothing more than a backup to Humphrey, and they just got
    that in Gaston Green.  Kenny Walker pick is certainly interesting. 
    He's one of the fastest defensive linemen in the draft, but they said
    he dropped this far because he is considering going to grad school and
    giving up football.  Nick Subis is listed as a center, but can play
    anywhere along the OL.  I was impressed with Mayfield against CU this
    past season.
    
    Also, I heard Mike Stonebreaker of ND went to the Bears in the 9th
    round.
    
    Joe

    re: Erickson
    
    He went to the Eagles in the fifth round.
    
    Dennis
    

   Year in and year out the Bears have one of the most solid drafts in the
   league. I wish Dan would ask his buddy Mike for the secret, because,
   except for some occasional flurries of competence, the Donks have
   really got some lemons over the years.... and I don't just mean hte
   usual gambles that don't pay off. I mean some first, and second, round
   picks thtat knowledgeable fans said: What!?!?? They can't be serious!

   And then, of course, they're right.

   Wasting that pick on Lewis doesn't seem especially bright to me. They
   can roll in some plan B's or free agents if they just  need some RB's
   for practice.

   Mike JN

    re .74:
    
    Does that mean with Buddy gone, so is Jimmy Mac?
    
    

    So what do you guys think about the Shawn Moore pick in the 11th round?
    In case you've been in a cave since last night, the Broncos stole Shawn
    Moore in the 11th round.  I just can't believe this guy fell all the
    way to the 11th round.  Teams may have been scared away by his
    late-season thumb injury and the fact that he may jump to the CFL. 
    Similar situation to Major Harris, maybe?  The Broncos need to get him
    signed.  They'll undoubtedly need to pay more than your typical 11th
    round pick, but the fact of the matter is that it looks like they'll
    need a new backup going into next season, other than someone like a
    Tony Eason.  
    
    Mr. Hunt, you hear anything about why he may have slipped this far, and
    is his thumb completely healed?
    
    The one area Denver didn't address in the draft was cornerback.  I
    guess they're confident they can get 2 decent starters out of
    Henderson, Lang, Dimry, and Braxton.
    
    Joe 

    Moore is a far better QB than Major Harris ... and I can't see how the
    thumb injury was responsible for a drop to the 11th round, unless it
    was amputated ...

Shawn Moore never demonstrated that he can throw the ball accurately. Most of 
his college completions were lofted balls to Herman Moore who simply out lept
the covering cornerback or safety.

He never demonstrated the ability to throw the quick out with any accuracy. I
bet that he rated low in the scouting combines for arm strength also. Most of
the scouts thought he was a clone of Rice from ND 2 years ago. 

I'm sure Erickson rated low due to size and arm strength also.

Unless you're a big stud and play in a pro set offense in college you can be 
pretty sure that your not going to be a top draft pick in the NFL. 


Metz

>  <<< Note 36.78 by EARRTH::BROOKS "I'm having an old friend for dinner..." >>>
    
    nice p_n Doc ;-)  A funny line from a real disgusting movie.

> He never demonstrated the ability to throw the quick out with any accuracy. I
> bet that he rated low in the scouting combines for arm strength also. Most of
> the scouts thought he was a clone of Rice from ND 2 years ago. 

    A clone of Tony 'Bounce Pass' Rice?!?!  They've gotta be kidding!  Rice
    was strictly an option QB with very little accuracy or arm strength.
    Moore looked like more of a drop-back passer with a great ability to
    scramble, run and improvise.  The guy I would compare him to is
    Cunningham.  I agree that Moore isn't one of the more accurate passers, 
    but I certainly thought he had a strong arm.
    
    Joe
    

    Joe, Doc,
    
    The one scouting report I read about Shawn Moore said "Destined to
    follow Major Harris and Tony Rice - not a pro quarterback.  Canada an
    option."
    
    
    JD

Strong Arm does not simply mean the ability to throw the ball 60+ yards in
the air. Having a strong arm relates more to throwing the quick out with enough
steam that it doesn't rainbow and gets to the receiver before the DB does.

Marino,Elway and Cunningham have excellent arms. Montana has a good arm. Steve
Walsh has an adequate arm. 


Moore doesn't have it. 


Metz

    
    There's also that ACC competition thing, where everytime you looked up
    Herman Moore seemed to be about ten yards in the clear.  It probably
    didn't help that Shawn Moore was operating with a wounded limb during 
    the time all the post-season fun versus better defenses was going on, 
    either.
    
    Comparisons to Cunningham?  No way...
    
    glenn
     

    Sorry Metz, but I saw Moore a few times, and his arm strength is
    certainly better than advertised. Granted, he is far from polished, but
    to compare him to Tony Rice ? Ridiculous !
    
    Moore was a lot more adaptable as a QB, playing option, pro-set, a
    little wishbone, whatever ... 
    
    Moore certainly has the arm and the raw talent to play in the NFL.
    
    re Erickson,
    
    And when are the scouts going to learn that arm strength isn't
    everything ? 
    
    You guys act as if arm strength is The Gospel. Hell, the sainted Joe
    Montana did not have sufficient arm strength either, if you listened to
    the 'experts' .... now of course Metz and others see him as having a
    'good arm' ... heh heh heh ...
    
    The more I watch a draft, the more I agree with John H. - players are
    not judged enough on *how they play the game* ....
    
    Here's rootin' for Moore and Erickson ...

>   Moore was a lot more adaptable as a QB, playing option, pro-set, a
>    little wishbone, whatever ... 

	None of which makes him a bonafide NFL talent. Doc, You gotta realize
that for every Shawn Moore out there that gets mega publicity and tv exposure
there are 3 Kolvaks or Mcgwire's that play in relative college obscurity but
are constantly watched by the scouts. 
    
>    Moore certainly has the arm and the raw talent to play in the NFL.
    

	Obviously the NFL scouts,GM's and coaches disagree with you. With your
track record at picking qb stars (Ware, Harris) I'll stick with the scouts
opinions. However he might be a good project to turn into a defensive back 
(just kidding :-)

You have to remember that the NFL is big business. The combines are geared to
try and draft players that won't fail. For every late round Johnny Johnson that
makes a big impact there are 10 examples of players that did exactly what was
expected of them when drafted. It's not a perfect system but it's success speaks
for itself. The team wastes more on a first round draft choice failure than it
makes up with a late round success story.

>   You guys act as if arm strength is The Gospel. Hell, the sainted Joe
>    Montana did not have sufficient arm strength either, if you listened to
>    the 'experts' .... now of course Metz and others see him as having a
>    'good arm' ... heh heh heh ...


Never did I state the Arm strength is the gospel of QB's. Nor did I 
professionally rate Joe Montana's arm coming out of college and give my input
to the 49ers. There are plenty of strong armed qb's in an NFL uniform that I
think are stiffs (BJ Tolliver, Jay Schroeder, Bubby Brister ). Face the facts
though. You aren't going to be an NFL qb in this day and age without the tools
for the job. Arm strength, height and mobility are the physical tools needed. 
Intelligence, adaptability and coolness are some of the mental traits needed.

The NFL seems to place a priority on the physical over the mental by assuming
that with the physical tools any player can be taught to be a QB. I disagree but
that doesn't make Doug Flutie any taller and you can't teach height.



Metz
  

    Hey, there is no racial rathole ... of course people will see what they
    want to ...

    	I have to agree with the Doc (despite his shamless attempt to
    steal my only TM).  Most of these "expert" pro scouts don't know
    their arse from their elbow.  Was Montana highly touted?  Or
    Cunningham?  How about Moon or Theisman?  Weren't the Dolphins said
    to be wasting their first draft pick when they took a "suspect"
    Marino.  Remember the guy who was going to be better than Hannah,
    Brown or Shell?  In case you don't here's a few hints.  He plays
    for Green Bay, likes Guns & Roses, and sucks as a football player.
    Tony MandaRICH.  Usually when the scouts unanimously agree you're
    looking a one sorry specimen of a football player.  Remember I said
    "usually".
    
    				/Don

       ...but /Don, they were certainly right about Ken Simms! Remeber what
    'they'said back then: "there should be 2 drafts, one for Simms and
    another for everybody else!"
                                        Denny

    /Don (adn DOC)  Yeah, and for every Runningham and Montana and
    Theismann they are wrong about, there are a zillion players they are
    right on the money about.  
    
    They are exceptions, not the rules.  
    
    JD

    	No JD.  The NFL did a study of first round draft picks for the
    80's and the exact number may be different, but I believe less than
    50% of the first round draft picks started for their respective
    teams and less than 50% of those made the Pro Bowl.  Clearly something
    is wrong here.  Anybody remember this?  It was one of the reasons
    the owners wanted to initiate a minimum wage for rookies.
    
    				/Don

BTW - The scouts opinions on Tony the MandaRICH were changing up until draft 
	day. A few of the better scouts were saying that he had slow feet. This
	it turns out is true, which is why he's such a piss poor pass blocker. 
	However the scouting combines were still in awe of his brute strength.

He is a perfect reason why the Raiders and a few other teams employ independent 
scouts instead of listiening to the combines 100%

Doc,

 No slur meant on the racial thing. I just mentioned it because you have used it
in the past as a reason why a player didn't get drafted....


Metz

    The draft is nothing more than a crap shoot and all the scouting and
    evaluation is only meant to improve the odds a little bit.
    
    John

slasher,

Did they continue the study and see how many 2nd round draft choices started and
made the pro bowl? how about 3rd,4th and 5th....

It's a very misleading study (financed by the NFL owners I'm sure) if they just 
used the 2 metrics you stated. 


Metz

    	Well Metz if I were the players I would trade a rookie wage
    scale for a less restricted free agency setup.  That way the owners
    would be paying those that produce not just those who went to a
    major university and have "potential".  One of the other benefits
    would be the elimination of agents for college players because they
    really wouldn't need the services of an agent until their first
    or second year as a pro.  The current setup really hurts the middle
    to late rounder who becomes a good but not a great player.
    
    				/Don

    >	Well Metz if I were the players I would trade a rookie wage
    >scale for a less restricted free agency setup. 
    
    I think the NFL will move in the opposite direction.  Tagliabue said
    during draft day that Plan B won't continue (didn't say exactly when). 
    Given the weakness of the player's union, there will be even less free
    agency if any at all.
    
    Dan

>   >	Well Metz if I were the players I would trade a rookie wage
>    >scale for a less restricted free agency setup. 


It all depends on where I was drafted :-)....If I'm a first round choice I don't
want a rookie wage scale because I can sign for big $$$ and the sit on my butt 
for the rest of my short career (call it the Boz stategy)

If I'm a middle to late round choice I want more free agency because I can show
my stuff and then sign with another team for big $$$. If I'm a proven pro player
I want free agency also. 

If I'm NFL management I want a salary scale based on years of service with no
incentives and no free agency.......


Metz
    
 

    re .92
    
    Metz I have mentioned it (the racial angle) in the past because I
    beleived it to have been true in some cases. If you disagree fine, it
    is your right. If confronting the issue makes you uncomfortable (it
    must have for you to bring it out of the blue), that's too bad (and I
    don't mean that as a slam) - I call it as I see it (and I can prove a
    few cases, but that - for now - is beside the point). 
    
    And please note that I also voiced simular feelings about Craig
    Erickson as well ....
    
    As for McGwire, he was not a hidden player - mostly because of his
    height and his lineage ... it will be interesting to watch him in
    action.
    
    re Scouting,
    
    I have seen scouts 'blow' more than a few cases. Perhaps the player
    hasn't/didn't reach(ed) the All-Pro level, but he was a pretty
    productive player.
    
    Sometimes there is too much emphasis on the numbers (the Cowboys and
    Paul Brown can be thanked for that), and not enough on intangibles and
    sheer ability to play the game.
    
    Doc

        Isn't there an NFL draft note for all this "opinionated" debate?
    
      I heard that the 3rd round choice for Denver was arrested before the
    draft.  Looks like he will fit right in;^^
    
    	Tim

Remember you guy's DON'T start intellectual Discussions in the Donk note !


Geez you'd think that  Denver picked up a QB that could throw on the 
run because John boy tend to do the same. 

Jeff

      The Broncs signed an ex-Pueblo Crusader yesterday.  His name slips
    the mind, but he is 6'2" and 233 lbs.  The radio station dj said he was
    a DE, but at that size?
    
      This guy held the record for sacks in the minor leaque.  His total
    was 33 sacks for 1 year.  It was probably the year they beat the
    Colorado Springs Spirit for the minor title. 
    
      He is going to be tried out at outside LB.
    
    
    	Tim

       training camps have started...big deal right?
    
      Well in the case of good junk noting,  Elway will win MVP this year
    as well as finally winning his 1st ring by beating, who else..The
    Vikings!!
    
    	Tim

>       training camps have started...big deal right?
    
    Actually, it is a big deal when you consider we've had to live without
    any football since January.  The camp the Broncos are having right now
    is just a voluntary minicamp - mostly rookies and quarterbacks.  The 
    Broncos open training camp on July 12th. 
    
    Joe
            

    > Elway will win MVP this year as well as finally winning his first
    > ring....
    
    Winning his first ring?     We will see, but don't bet the house 
    on it!    (Hmmm, now where have I heard that before...:-)
    
    Seriously though, I think Elway will start out having a good season,
    then his age; injuries, slower legs, etc... will cath up to him,
    and he'll have to give way to Kojak or whatever his name is....
                                                               
    Carlos

       WOW!!!  A Faider fan saying Elway will start good?   Just that
    little bit is a shock to the eyes;^^^
    
       Hopefully this year the Broncs will only have a few "incidents"
    compared to the past few years, espeacially since Perry is histo.
    
       Minus injuries,  look for the defense to have a good year.  Watch
    for Lelo (sp?) Lang to challenge strongly for the starting CB spot over
    Henderson.  I know, it shouldn't be to difficult considering Hernderson
    is slow a Hienz ketchup....
    
    		Tim

    Is Mile High Stadium sold out for all of the Donks games????
    
    I'm going to be in Colorado Springs from Sept 15th thru October 18th
    and would like to take in a game if'n I can get tickets.
    
    Which brings up my next point, are the Donks at home between these
    dates at all?????
    
    Thanks,
    
    JaKe
    

    Sept 15	Seattle
    Sept 22	San Diego
    Sept 29	at Minnesota
    Oct 6	at Houston
    Oct 13	Open Date
    Oct 20	Kansas City
    
    John

 the team is so pathetic Jake it should be easy to get tickets. Especially if
 you wait till the oct 20th game because by then they'll be out of the race.

 ;^)

    Jake,
    
    I think there's a Steelers club in Colorado Springs.  Let me know if
    you want info on whom to contact and where to see the games.
    
    	--dan'l

            Just thought I'd throw this in, in the hopes that other 
    anti-Donks might appreciate it. In the Spanish language (might
    be slang ??) there is a term for a little donkey, or ass, that is
    pronounced 'way', although the spelling might be a little different. 
    Usually when it's used to describe a person it's not done with the
    kindest of intentions, your basically calling them an ass, or imbecile.
    Also in Spanish, the word 'El' (like El Cid) means 'the', so then 
    when you put them both together 'El way' or Elway, I think you guys
    can see the ironic humor of it especially considering he plays for
    the Donks.......many :-)
    
    
    
    Carlos
            

    Jake,
    
    Yes, all the games are sold out, so you can't get tickets through the
    ticket office.  However, if you go up to one of the games an hour or 2
    early, I can guarantee you will find tickets at or below face value
    being sold around the stadium.  The best place to go is the west side
    of the stadium (right near the ticket office), or go to a bar near the
    stadium and ask the people working there if there's any tickets for
    sale.  One exception might be a Faider game, but they're not playing in
    Denver when you are here anyway so you shouldn't have any problem.
    
    P.S.- You're leaving CS a day early.  Boo Hoo Lou's boys are playing at
    the Academy on the 19th.  Oh well.
    
    Joe              

    
    re .110  
    
    Boy CArlos that note is really going to embarass Francis Ass, er Frank
    Way.
    
    Bruce

      Another good spot for tickets is on the off ramp as you get off I-25,
    19th ave I believe is the exit.
    
      re-  Carlos,  It took you this long to come up with that one? 
    
        Tim

    Thanks for the info.
    
    The only game the Donks play at home while I'll be there is the San
    Diego game.  Maybe I'll take the advice and head up to Denver.
    
    Dan'l,. send me the info on the Steelers Club in the Springs.  I'd hate
    to miss a month of the Steelers AFC Central championship season.
    
    JaKe
    

    > Carlos, It took you this long to come up with that one?
    
    Hey Tim, 
    Actually I can't take credit for coming up with it, I overheard
    it some time during the last few years while watching a Donk game
    with some friends. It has taken me this long to enter it in here
    though. I guess it's just one of those things you save for just
    the right time, and this note has been pretty lame lately so I thought
    I'd throw it in just to stir things up a little. 
    
    Carlos

    
    	Oh no!  Jake is invading C Springs?  What're we gonna do
    	about this guys?
    
    	Claybone

    
><<< Note 36.116 by GENRAL::WADE "IBeenDrivinAllNight...MyHandsWetOnTheWheel" >>>
>                        -< hide the women and children >-
    
    
    Better hide the sheep and dogs, too!!!!!
    
    (8^0*  (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    
    Any bars out there where you can toss mid.....Nah, Fergit it!!!!
    (8^)*
    
    
    

    Jake,
    
    couldn't send mail to your node so here's the info on the CS Steelers
    Club:
    
    Pittsburgh Colorado Springs Club
    contact Jack Dowds
    Home: 719\574-7568
    Work: 719\579-3489 or 719\579-5250
    
    Never talked to Jack but you can still tell him how you got his name.
    
    	--dan'l

The mini-camp provided insight that only a one sport city i.e. Denver could
produce Elways muscles. 
Kubiak's back is fixed. 
Braxton's Knee is stronger than ever. 
Nattiel is going to be a ALL-PRO. 


The wr's are running with parachutes because they are sooo fast. 

The O-line is meditating via Kung-Fu on visualizing winning. 

    
    	Oh well, since Hoot isn't around anymore...........
    
    	It seems ole Bobby Humphrey and Mel Bratton were riding
    	around in Bobby's new Jeep Cherokee the other night.
    	They crashed into another vehicle.  The occupants of
    	the other vehicle (the hittees  ;^)  ) say that Bobby
    	and Mel switched places so that it would apear that
    	Mel was the driver.  Bobby had alcohol on his breath.
    	He is currently on probation for a DUI he received
    	about a year(?) ago.  
    
    	The Donks organization is *helping* out by providing the
    	hittees with a loaner car while this mess gets cleared
    	up.  Bobby didn't have insurance.  Mel has been charged
    	with the traffic violations.  Stay tuned........
    
    	Claybone

      No not Bobby.....  I remember when Micheal Brooks rolled his Cherokee
    last year.
    
      I'm glad I don't live in Denver,  heck I probably would get hit by
    one of these guys.  Of course, all of us that have been to Denver knows
    what bad drivers there are on the road,  and the worst part, is most,
    whether they live there or not, are originaly from outta town.
    
        Well, does this mean its Bobbies 2nd offense?  I don't remember him
    getting "dinged" forr it last year..
    
    	Tim

    Ahh...the travesty continues....:-)
    
    Reeves proberly loant them a mercedes and offered them season tickets
    to drop all the charges....that scum bag....
    
    >                 -< Carlos = closet Bronco fan ;^^ >-
    
    Ooofff, God that was way below the belt Tim, that's OK though 'cause
    come Sept. 8th I'll be the one smilin, while you'll seriously be
    considering switching loyalties to a real football team :-)
    
    Carlos

      re- real football team,  you mean the giants or bears, at least
    according to some of their faithfuls;^^

    >                -< Your not speakin' saprono are ya? >-
    
    Tim, it wouldn't matter even if I was speakin' in my best Mickey
    Mouse imitation, the record between our two teams speaks all for
    itself, (I'm not 100% on this but...) I think in the last seven meetings
    between the Raiders and the Donks the Raiders have won six. 6-1
    is an excellent record against your powerful Donks don't you think?
    Heck, even giving the Donks the benefit of the doubt would put the
    Raiders at 5-2, which is still very good, especially considering
    that the Raiders didn't return to their normal form 'til last year.
                          
    Carlos

>    (I'm not 100% on this but...) I think in the last seven meetings
>    between the Raiders and the Donks the Raiders have won six. 6-1
    
    Well, you're close Carlos.  
    
    90: Raiders, 2-0
    89: 1-1
    88: Raiders, 2-0
    87: Broncos, 2-0
    86: Broncos, 2-0
    85: Raiders, 2-0
    84: Broncos, 2-0
    
    The Raiders don't have 6 of the last 7, but do have 5 of the last 6.
    However, the series is tied 7-7 over the last 7 years, and Denver won 6
    out of 8 from '84 to '87.  The Raiders still have a big lead in this
    overall series, but Denver didn't have a winning record until '75 or
    '76.  From 1977 on, with the exception of '89, one team has swept the
    season series.  And although LA does have the overall lead, since '77
    it's probably very close and Denver might even have a slight lead.  I'd
    have to check.
    
    Joe
    
    P.S.- I haven't included 1991, which will be Denver 2, LA 0    :)
    
    

    Thanks Joe, that's some pretty interesting stuff, amazing how (with
    the '89 exception) they've had a sweep for thirteen of the last
    fourteen years. It also seems to me that the majority of the time,
    whenever these two teams play, the final score is within a touchdown.
    
    Carlos
    

    The all time series stands 41-19-2 in favor of the Raiders and has gone
    like this:
    
    1960	Split  		1-1
    1961	Split		2-2
    1962	Den 2-0         2-4
    1963	Raid 2-0	4-4 (this year started 9 years of no Denver 
    					wins)
    1964	Raid 1-0-1	5-4-1
    1965	Raid 2-0	7-4-1 (begins string of 14 Raider wins)
    1966	Raid 2-0	9-4-1
    1967	Raid 2-0	11-4-1
    1968	Raid 2-0	13-4-1
    1969	Raid 2-0	15-4-1
    1970	Raid 2-0	17-4-1
    1971	Raid 2-0	19-4-1
    1972	split 		20-5-1
    1973	Raid 1-0-1	21-5-2
    1974	split		22-6-2
    1975	Raid 2-0	24-6-2
    1976	Raid 2-0	26-6-2
    1977	Den 2-1		27-8-2 (Denver wins in playoffs)
    1978	Den 2-0		27-10-2
    1979	Raid 2-0	29-10-2
    1980	Raid 2-0	31-10-2
    1981	Den 2-0		31-12-2
    1982	Raid 1-0	32-12-2 (only 1 game that year - strike)
    1983	Raid 2-0	34-12-2
    1984	Den 2-0		34-14-2
    1985	Raid 2-0	36-14-2
    1986	Den 2-0		36-16-2
    1987	Den 2-0		36-18-2
    1988	Raid 2-0	38-18-2
    1989	split		39-19-2
    1990	Raid 2-0	41-19-2
    
    It's not recent history that's responsible for the wide edge the
    Raiders have in the series, it's really the 1963-1976 time period. 
    Since 1977, the series has been virtually even at 15-13 in favor of the
    Raiders.
    
    John

    Broncos open training camp Friday.
    
    Elway's back is doing fine, but everyone's keeping their fingers
    crossed that it stays that way.  
    
    There's rumors around that Vance may be traded.  He's certainly
    expendable considering that Sharpe should continue to get better
    (although he is projected to be used mostly at H-back this year), and
    they drafted Curtis Mayfield and that other receiver from Arkansas.  
    However, if Nattiel doesn't show signs of coming back from a couple of
    injury-plagued seasons, he could be the odd man out.
    
    Kenny Walker looked real good in the mini-camp.  The question now isn't
    if he'll make the team, but how much he'll play.
    
    Alphonso Carreker is expected to miss all of training camp because of
    his back problem.
    
    Coaches are so confident in Braxton's ability to come back after his
    knee injury, they will be putting plan B signee Charles Dimry on the 
    right side to compete against Wymon Henderson.
    
    Joe
       

    Joe,,
    
    What's the status of Shawn Moore?
    
    Rich
    

the Enver Bronco's finish 7-9 this year cause there is no "D" in Enver. 

      Back from vacaction, and not much happening here.   Good info John.
    
      Steve Sewell and Braxton signed contracts yesterday.
    
      Brooks might play holdout.  Why?, he says its 'cause he was the
    leading tackler last year.  I just don't see him deserving the $$ that
    he wants.  He still needs to prove himself, and don't be suprised to
    see a big challenge for his job by both of the rookies.
    
       Tim

      Does anyone have an update on who hasn't signed yet?
    
      Are Humphrey and Atewater still holding out?

    Atwater and Humphrey are still holding out.  Outside of those two, only
    unsigned players remaining are Nattiel, 1st-round pick Croel and
    2nd-round pick Johnson.  Clevescum signed their top pick this past
    weekend, so that should help get Croel signed sometime soon.
    
    Joe

Humphrey and Atwater both have 2 years left on the contracts. What is it these 
kids go home for the summer and get STUPID or somethin Denver won 5 games last 
year I don't care if Humphrey and Atwater carried the team 5 wins doesn't mean
more money. 

I tell DEC cause we had a bad year I want MORE MONEY. We got too many greedy  
people in Pro-Sports today. 

Gastom Green looks good but Reeves will have him play H-back or Fullback and 
rely on him to block. That what made himn a plan B singer anyway. 

Jeff 

    
>      Brooks might play holdout.  Why?, he says its 'cause he was the
>    leading tackler last year.  I just don't see him deserving the $$ that
>    he wants.  He still needs to prove himself, and don't be suprised to
>    see a big challenge for his job by both of the rookies.
  
    Brooks is back in camp, but won't get any challenge from Croel, because
    Croel will be used strictly as an outside 'backer.  Meanwhile, Traylor
    is an insider.  Croel will battle Tim Lucas for the LOLB position, but
    free agent Jeff Mills enters camp as the starter for that position. 
    
    RE: Riggen
    I also heard Green looked good after a couple workouts, but I have a
    hard time believing that he would be tried at fullback because he's
    only listed at 192 pounds.  I would think they may also use Green as a
    kick returner, because he did quite a bit of that for the Rams, and
    with good success.  
    
    Kenny Walker, who weighed about 240 coming out of Nebraska, is up to
    264.
    
    As for Shawn Moore, he should get quite a bit of playing time in the
    preseason because Denver has 5 games and Kubiak probably won't play in
    the first 2 or 3, at least.  Kubiak is supposed to be back in pads
    August 1st.  Moore will battle Pat Hegarty for the 3rd QB position.
    
    Joe  
 

       Isn't Gaston Green a fumbler?   If my memory serves me,  he seemed
    to run well for the Rams,  but he couldn't hold onto the ball.  Please
    tell me I'm wrong.
    
       Croel should get is butt into camp since the 1st pre-game is only 2
    weeks away.  I'm not worried about Nattiel.  I do agree with Jeff's way
    of thinkin'.
    
       Those 2 guys held out in thier rookie year, and they did get some
    decent contracts,  besides, isn't a contract supposed to be the legal
    way of making someone play?  I see fine thier butts 10k a day!!  That
    would teach 'em.....  How sadistic....
    
    	Tim

 Yes Tim Gaston Green he of fine moves and speed is indeed a fumbler better
 yet he's all-world practice player!!! When the real games start he plays
 like RCASO spells...

 wish Denver had more of his type...wait a minute actually they do...

 glad I could help out...

 your pal

 the anti....

       Speaking of HOOT, anyone seen him or the Parrot lately? How they
    doing in the 'real world'?
                                              Denny

    
    MikeC,
    
    	Who is this stud-muffin of a QB you refer to?  ;^)
    
    Claybone

Hoot must eat his words cause last I heard Hoot was at a family reunion in 
Ohio. 

Jeff

      Last I heard,  Monty was still a council member in Green Mtn. Falls. 
    I don't know what he really does for a living.  
    
      Gee thanks for the Green info Mike.  RE-1,  I would like to know who
    this stud muffin is too.  If your refering to Biffy,  then that means
    you really do care about him;^  Why don't you admit that you like to
    wear your orange when the donks are playing;^^^^^
    
      Tim 

       I thought the parrot was going to be a fireman when he checked out
    of DEC. Maybe he decided on brain surgery instead. :^)
       Sheesh, we even bust these guys when they're gone. What a crew!
                                          Denny

    >         -< but atleast you got a stud muffin for a QB... >-
    
    You probably think Ali-Sheeba is cute too! huh?  :-)

    Ha ha ha, this is toooooo much.  Monty and Hoot being remembered in the
    Donk note!  Ha ha ha.  :*)
    
    I know, this is where they spent a lot of their noting time, but it
    seems strange that they are remembered here, more than in the Raider
    note.  :*)
    
    lEe
    
    

Yes, but Lee, look at it this way.

I'm sure General Sherman is much more remembered in Atlanta than in his
home town.....;^)


'Saw

    Juriga has been bothered by back problems lately and will undergo some
    tests today to see if the problems are serious or just something minor. 
    Juriga had been moved to left tackle, so right now that leaves Darrel
    Hamilton as the starting left tackle.
    
    Offensive lineman Nick Subis, this year's 6th round draft pick, hurt
    his knee yesterday and is expected to miss 3 or 4 weeks.  
    
    Kenny Walker has been bothered by a strained hamstring, but returned to
    practice yesterday.  
    
    No new news on holdouts Atwater and Humphrey, or unsigned players
    Croel, Johnson, and Nattiel.
    
    Joe

 In other ACC news, Duke junior Christian Laettner was named as the
 ACC's Male Athlete Of The Year for his role in leading Duke to the
 NCAA Division 1 basketball championship.    
 
 Laettner had finished 2nd to NC State's Rodney Monroe for the ACC's
 Men's Basketball Player Of The Year award.
 
 Virginia's Dawn Staley was selected as the ACC's Female Athlete Of
 The Year for her role in leading the Lady Cavaliers to a 2nd-place
 finish in the NCAA Women's Basketball Championship.
 
 Florida State officially joined the ACC on 1-Jul-1991 as the ninth
 member of the conference.   They will play a full conference
 basketball schedule in 1991-92 and will join the football race during
 the 1992-93 season.
 
 The ACC also was instrumental in bringing to life a new agreement
 among the Orange, Sugar, Cotton, and Fiesta Bowls.   As of the 1992
 season, the ACC champion will be guaranteed a slot in any one of
 these four top-notch bowl games.
 
 Bob Hunt

    Yo Robert,
    
    	I'm sure Joe didn't mind the ACC news..............except
    	the part about those weenie Virginia Cavaliers!  :^)
    
    Claybone

    Hey Bob, thanks for the ACC news...keep it comin'!  I'll tell ya, it
    sure beats that ongoing Dean rathole.  :^)
    
    The Broncos held their first scrimmage last night, and the players who
    impressed were Gaston Green, Shawn Moore, Randy Robbins, Simon
    Fletcher, and Kenny Walker.
    
    Juriga's exams on his back turned out good, so he should be back in
    pads soon.
    
    2nd round pick Reggie Johnson might be signed as early as Friday.
    
    Joe
    

    Joe, I haven't heard anything about Curtis Mayfield for a while.  Is
    he still around?
    
    Cowboy
    

    Curtis Mayfield is still around, but I haven't heard anything about
    he's doing.  If nobody gets traded, he will probably have a tough time
    making the roster unless he can beat out 4th round pick Derek Russell
    from Arkansas.
    
    Joe

      I guess DAnny is impressed with Russell, so watch out Nattiel.

4 Denver Bronco's were arrested Friday night outside a Greely Talc 
establishment the "Armory". 
I think it was something about the 1st annual "Gerald Perry lets get into 
trouble night". 

The only player I remember is Melvin Bratton RB. 

Jeff

    
    	Sorry Jeff, but the Armory doesn't quite qualify as a
    	TALC establishment.  It's a part of the same chain of
    	bars as Meadow Muffins/O'Furry's.
    
    	Wasn't there a time when Pat Blowin'(tm) was looking for
    	meaner players (ie always in trouble?).  I guess the
    	old saying about being careful what you wish for applies.
    
    	Claybone

 It's a part of the same chain of
    	bars as Meadow Muffins/O'Furry's.
    

Clay; 
Places with names like this aren't TALC joints ????

      Alton Montgomery was the only player to get hurt from my
    understanding.  From what Bratton said,  some guy starting talking
    %&$* to Alton, and finally they decided to take it outside.
    
      This guy appearently threw a beer bottle as hard as he could at
    Alton, so then Alton raise is arm to block it, and thus the bottle
    breaking on his wrist area and then cutting him fairly deep.
    
      Then I guess some pushing and shoving and "what not" happened until
    the cops got there.  I don't know who the other 2 players were.
    
      Alton will be sidelined for ~ a week.
    
    
      Alright guys,  what does TALC stand for?
    
    		Tim

    
    	Jake holds the trademark on T.A.L.C.  I don't think
    	those bars qualify for the T and A portion of TALC.
    	I guess we need a definition from the source.  How
    	'bout it Jake?
    
    	Claybone

The real truth. 

Some Clevescum fan was moaning and groaning about the Bronco's beating them 
repeatedly to get to the Stupid Bowl. Alton Montgomery quietly reminded 
him that he was SWEATING profusly. The guy then obviosly in a steroid induced 
fit of violent behavior threw a bottle at Montgomery causing Alton to SWEAT and 
behave like a guy on the JUICE. Melvin Bratton happened to be cruisin by and 
witnessed his teamate bleeding so he got out of his car and proceeded to 
beat-up a man in blue. 2 other players were also sweating and cursing. 

Jeff

    Montgomery received 13 stitches on his arm from being hit by the
    bottle, but he practiced yesterday.  The other 2 players involved
    besides Montgomery and Bratton were Michael Brooks and Ronnie
    Haliburton.
    
    The Broncos had another scrimmage on Saturday and Gaston Green did very
    well again.  That was their last major scrimmage before the Lion game.
    
    Shawn Moore may not play in Saturday's game because of the knee he
    injured in practice last week.
    
    Bronco preseason schedule: (All times are Mountain)
    July 27  Detroit (at Canton)  10:30 am
    Aug. 2   INDY                  7:00 pm
    Aug. 7   @ San Fran            7:00 pm
    Aug. 19  MIAMI                 6:00 pm
    Aug. 23  @ Phoenix             8:30 pm
    
    Joe

While Jake may hold the tm on TALC, the final two letters originated with
me.

T.A.L.C stands for Titles, Acquisitions, Liens and Contracts.

Titles and Acquisitions are self-explanatory.

Liens are LEGally binding,

Contracts, are, well, figure it out.....


hth,
'Saw

    Forgot to put in the holdout/signing info.  2nd round pick Reggie
    Johnson and Ricky Nattiel signed contracts and were in camp last
    Friday.  Only unsigned player remaining is Croel; no news on Atwater or
    Humphrey.
    
    Joe

      I think they are dis-respectful.  They are both going to make $600k
    plus this year (if my memory serves me).  They were all-pro last year,
    but give it a rest.  Heck even Elway has class not to hold out.
    
       Well any predictions for this weekend?
    
      Does Detroit still use the run-shoot?  If so, then I think it will 
    be an offensive battle.
    
      Of course it don't matter who wins,  but I think the Donks will
    prevail.
    
    	Tim

    >Well any predictions for this weekend?
    
    Miami over the Bears - Miami is gonna be hard to stop this year!
    
    Broncs over the Lions- I know, it's a shocker, me picking the broncs,
                           but I figure it's only pre-season, and Sanders
                           is probably not gonna play, so what the heck!
    
    Raiders over Niners -  Another shocker huh? The niner's will see
                           what a mistake they made not protecting Lott,
                           and Craig.
    
    Eagle over the Bills - No comments.
    
    
    Carlos                       

    As a public service to the Bronco fans, here's a run-down from various
    NFL sources on Mike Croel, LB, Nebraska, #1 pick of the Broncos:
    
    
    "He's a great player.  When he decides to get it, he can be getting it
    in about the second step.  He can haul ass."  -Reed Johnson, Denver
    Broncos director of player personnel
    
    "I don't have any problem with his instincts.  He's not Broderick
    Thomas coming out, but he's not far behind him."  -Tom Braatz, Packers
    
    "Athletically, he's outstanding.  But they walk him off in coverage
    alot there.  He can go a whole game and you don't even know he's on the
    field."  -Dick Corrick, Oilers
    
    "In terms of making plays that make the nightly news, no.  Not that
    type.  And not a real big guy.  But he can run, he can blitz, he can be
    used in coverage, he plays the run well."  -Ron Hughes, Detroit Lions
    directory of player personnel
    
    "He's not as big as Pat Swilling.  He's like Cornelius Bennett.  If you
    have to line up and throw the ball, he's going to be in your face.  If
    you have to line up and run the ball, your back is going to have a
    little room to run.  Great kid."  -Tom Boisture, Giants
    
    "He's not Derrick Thomas, but could he give you some of the same
    things?  I don't see why he couldn't.  He is a good an athlete as I've
    ever seen at linebacker."  -Charley Casserly, Redskins
    
    
    "I think he's going to do nothing in the NFL.  I think he's the most
    non-instinctive football player I've ever seen."  -Anonymous (NFL
    personnel director)
    
    "Not great instints.  But he's got the speed to make up for a little
    bit of late reaction."  -Dick Steinberg, Jets.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

    Tim,
    I'm not positive about this, but I believe Atwater is only making
    around $300K and is something like the 5th or 6th highest paid player
    on the defense.  If that's the case he does deserve more, but I agree
    that he should honor his current contract.  He will be rewarded
    accordingly when this one runs out.
    
    As for preseason, I think the average fan takes too much stock in his
    team winning or losing.  I watch a preseason with a totally different
    mindset than I watch a regular season game.  In preseason I like to see
    how the first units look, how rookies and newcomers perform, and how
    different combinations of players work, with winning just an afterthought. 
    And what a lot of people might not realize is the teams are playing 
    preseason games (especially the 1st couple) with a primary goal not of 
    winning but of evaluating young players instead.  It's not really until 
    the last preseason game that coaches are fine-tuning their teams for the
    regular season, which is why by that last game the first units usually
    play at least 3 quarters.  If Denver wins, fine; if they lose, big
    deal.  Now come regular season, turn up the intensity about 10 levels,
    and it's not *how* they play the game, but whether they win or lose.
    
    Joe

      I agree with you Joe.  It is to evaluate the players.
    
      I hope to see good things from Kenny Walker.  Denver still needs alot
    of help at pass rushing.  Hopefully a corner back will show up, other
    than Braxton, thats if he is healthy.
    
    	Tim

    Reeves said Shawn Moore will play extensively in tomorrow's game. 
    Elway will see action for about 15-20 plays.
    
    Gaston Green will start at tailback, and Robert Perryman will split
    time with Bratton at fullback; Perryman will start.
    
    These guys won't play because of injuries: Vance Johnson, Derek
    Russell, Alphonso Carreker, Gary Kubiak, Jim Juriga, Nick Subis, and
    Keith Traylor.
    
    Here's some of the players I'll be most interested in watching: Moore,
    Gaston Green, Greg Lewis, Jeff Mills (who will be playing where Croel
    would be, LOLB), Reggie Johnson, Braxton, and Kenny Walker.
    
    Joe

    What's the deal with Crawford Ker, is he anticipated as a starter?
    I think he was a solid pick up for the Donks, I also think that
    Perryman's gonna help out alot blocking for Humph....
    
    Carlos

      I don't know anything about Ker.  I have not heard his name mentioned
    yet, until now.   What position does he play?
    
      Perryman is a "wait and see" kinda guy IMO.   Wasn't he a slug for
    the Patriots?
    
         Tim

re: Perryman

Pats dumped him last year because they thought he was "going thru the motions", 
and not giving his all.  When you're 1-15 I would imagine it is tough to stay in
the game at practice, but jeeze, you only play once a week.

=Bob=

    Pretty bland game, especially the 2nd half.  Shawn Moore looked very good
    for his first outing.  He showed good poise staying in the pocket. 
    Green ran the ball well, but I wasn't too impressed with Greg Lewis,
    although he did show good 2nd efforts.   Kenny Walker was
    disappointing, not even getting close to the Lions' QB's.  OLB Jeff
    Mills was in on a lot of plays and had 2 sacks.  Offensive line,
    especially left tackle, needs some work.  Michael Young remains
    Denver's best posession receiver.  Dimry may have been the one beaten
    on Detroit's 2nd TD, but he didn't get any help from the safeties, and
    he simply underestimated Campbell's speed.  Speaking of Campbell, it
    was nice to see the ex-Buff have a great game.  The Broncos miss
    Atwater much more than Humphrey at this point.
    
    Joe

       If Perryman's with the Donks now he's also a Dallas castoff. He was
    with them lasted year.
                                           Denny
    
    

      Didn't really catch much of this game.  Didn't even know it was on
    until I finished mowing the jungle called my lawn.  I saw enough of Pat
    Hagerty, and I wasn't impressed.  I agree with Shawn Moore looking
    good.  I believe Dimry was slow, from the couple plays I saw him in.
    
      I didn't notice much of a pass rush.  If there isn't pressure on the
    QB, then any CB or Safety will be burned given the time.
    
      I will probably watch this Friday's game, but then again?  Reeves
    should have time to help them with their small inefficiencies (sp?).
    
    
         Go Broncos....watta team!!!

All I need to see was the offense taking the opening kickoff to the Detroit 4
then use three plays up the middle and off tackle for a 18yd FG. I gots' the 
shakes from the 86 Superbowl next I see Dan Reeves pull the first team and 
put in a guy Hagerty I thought doug Flutie would be better. By this time I'm 
looking to my wife to take the kids this is gonna be a loooooonnnnnggggggg year.

Denver has been using parachutes on the players to make them run faster...

Seems to work great for the defense. 

Jeff

      re-1
    
      Jeff,  Tell me the offense didn't do that..  If different plays
    aren't ran,  then we will see the same ole stuff,  and your right,  it
    will be a long season.
    
      Did you see the one stat that showed NO tight end caught a TD last
    year?   I remember 2 that Kay dropped in the endzone,  and in both
    cases it was a go ahead score.  Paul Green was cut last week.  He was
    better than the other back-up slug they had.
    
      Hopefully this Johnson guy will work out, 'cause we know that old
    Clarence will be arrested before seasons end.  
    
    		Ti
    

    Read in the paper that some FB named Reggie Rivers (?) or something
    like that has been moving his way up the Donk depth chart to #2
    behind Perryman, surpassing Bratton and Sewell. 
    
    Carlos

Seems that Denver is shopping around Mel Bratton he is 4th on the FB depth chart

Vance Johnson and Ricky Natteil are also being shopped around.

RThe only player Denver is getting calls on is Bobby Humphrey. 

    
    Hope they're looking for some defensive help, cause it shore would
    be a shame to let the Chiefs and the Raiders go at it all alone...

    If Juriga's back doesn't get better soon, the position they'll need
    help at most is left tackle.  Giants' scouts were at the HOF game
    checking out some Bronco talent in case Denver is interested in acquiring 
    a tackle from them.
    
    RE Rivers
    He is one of the biggest surprises of camp, if not the biggest.  He's a
    first-year free agent from SW Texas State.  I don't think there's room
    for him on the roster though, with all the backs Denver has.
    
    Joe

      This is the 1st I have heard of Rivers.  Of course I haven't been
    into the Broncos scene as much as others.   If this Rivers guy is
    proving to be a great talet,  then get rid of Bratton.  Bratton did
    slow down towards the end of last season, regardless of the W/L record.
    
      Bratton seems to be going down the same road as Jeff Alexander did 2
    years ago.  Alexander started out great, then ended up having drinking
    problems as well as gaining weight.
    
      I guess Reeves is saying that if Humphrie doesn't get to camp, that
    they might consider a trade.  I think Denver would be losing a great RB
    if this happened. It's been since Floyd Little and Armstrong days that
    Denver hasn't had a "real" RB.  Sure Winder ran for alot of yards,  but
    he was slow and didn't have the moves.
    
      I don't think they should trade Bobby to get an OT.  The OT might not
    work out, unless its a Chris Hinton or Jumbo Elliot type.
    
      It sounds like the LB Mills might win a starting job.  He seems to be
    immpressing the staff.
    
      Carlos,  do you really think the Faiders are going to have as good a
    year as they did last year?  Don't kid yourself;^^
    
    
    	Tim

>> RThe only player Denver is getting calls on is Bobby Humphrey. 

 not true Jeff, why I called just the other day to ask them if they
 were still pay Mr. Ed 2 million...

 I needed a laugh.....

 you better take him early cause if you don't I will he ought to rack 
 up BIG BIG numbers against all them 5th place teams...

 course his defesne will give up more...

 mike

Denver takes on Indianapolis tonight Expect Dickerson to get about 50 yds in 
the first quarter then the stiffs will fill in for the rest of the game. 

I expect to see Johnson, Nattiel and Bratton to get some time. Shawn Moore
will play most of the second half. 

BORING !!!

    
    	Actually Jeff, I'm very interested to see how McCloughan
    	and VanderPoel (sp?) do for the Colts.  They are ex CU
    	Buffs BTW.  But you knew that.  Hail, even Kwak knew
    	that.  Just ask 'Saw.
    
    	Claybone

       Where's Jill 'the excited'? She should be getting wound up for
    another Donk season.
                                    Denny

    
    	Wait'll they win a couple in a row Denny.  I'm
    	a great straight man eh?
    
    	Claybone ;^)

The Donks could win 8 games this year if they go 4-4 in the division I would 
be very impressed. 

I expect Elway to get hurt on a blind side sack. Humphrey will show then blow 
out a knee 4 games into the season. Atwater will hold out for the gold plating 
off the Denver Capital dome... "He does deserve it". 

Jeff

      I'm not sure if I will be in town to watch this one.  Hopefully
    Reeves will play rookies since we already know what the vets can do.   
    Let the rookies play the whole game, that way by game 3 or 4 of
    preseason, they should be more "primed" to show their real talents.
    
      I beleive its hard for these 1st year (on the squad) guys to show
    all.
    
      Where is Jack and Jill?
    
    		Tim
    
      P.S.  Smile Cacti.....

      Well I did indeed watch most of the game Friday.   1st string O
    looked "normal".  I thought that the defense looked fairly good.  Its
    hard to look bad when the other teams ball carrier can't hold onto the
    ball.
    
      I think Lang will work out as long as he doesn't get to greedy to
    pick off passes.
    
      I still like Shawn Moore.....
    
    	Tim

    Defense did look pretty good Friday night, especially Fletcher and
    Brooks.  Whether it's Croel, Mills, or Lucas as the LOLB, this should
    be one of the league's best set of 'backers....Kenny Walker was getting
    a little heat on the QB....Gaston Green showed his speed on that TD run,
    and he might have had a couple more long runs but lost his footing. 
    Shawn Moore looked real good - Hegarty's as good as gone....If Sharpe is 
    going to stay at H-Back, he's going to have to improve his
    blocking....Reggie Johnson had a bad groin pull in the game, and is
    expected to miss the rest of preseason. :(
    
    Atwater was back in camp yesterday and will start against the Niners. 
    Of the 3 holdouts, he was missed the most.  I also heard that Croel may 
    be signed before the end of the week.
    
    Kubiak may see some action on Wednesday night.
    
    Right now, it's looking like Bratton won't make the team.
    
    
    Joe

    Atwater signed this weekend, the Donks just have Humphrey and Croel
    left to sign. 
    
    Carlos

      Atwater will have $34,500 in fines to pay.  Now was it worth it? 
    Unless not practicing for 2+weeks is worth that kinda cash.
    
      We will see about Humphrey.  If he comes back, and Green as backup, 
    well they would compliment each other well.
    
      I think the FB is still up in they air.  Rivers didn't seem to do
    much, that I saw anyway.
    
      I agree that the linebacking should be better this year than in the
    past ???  years......
    
    	Tim

>      Atwater will have $34,500 in fines to pay.  Now was it worth it? 
>    Unless not practicing for 2+weeks is worth that kinda cash.
    
    FWIW Tim, do ya really think Steve will end up paying that fine?  I would
    bet it will either be waived or tacked onto his salary as part of the
    deal in him returning to camp.  34K is nothing to NFL franchises who
    are used to paying $1 mil for something like a signing bonus.
    
    Back on the field, Nattiel was returning punts the other night.  What
    Reeves is trying to do here is get someone to return punts who will
    also contribute to the team in other areas.  Bottom line: could spell
    the end for Kevin Clark.  BTW, I thought Nattiel did a pretty good
    returning punts, except for that one he fumbled while trying to make a
    sliding catch - he never should have touched that one.
    
    Joe 
    
    
 

      Atwaters 34k problem will be put towards his insurance policy.  So
    yeh, he doesn't pay it.  Bowlen gave into that request, but didn't on
    the salary bump.
    
      Reeves is probably trying Nattiel at returns 'cause he doesn't want
    to cut all the talent that he has at recieving, IMO.  I thought Kevin
    Clark did a great job of returning kicks last year, once he was brought
    in.  If I remember correctly, he led the AFC in yards/return at one
    point, then ended up getting hurt.  He was/is fun to watch.  He isn't
    that great of a nickel back though...
    
      Some no name was cut yesterday.  He was from Puerto Rico (?) and
    never played college ball.  REeves says he had alot of talent and hopes
    this guy finds a job in Canada or WLAF.
    
       I hope these other 2 guys get to camp so the coaches won't have any
    doubts has to starters.
    
    	Tim

    It doesn't seem like anybody wants to talk about it, but there was a
    game last night.  The 1st-team offense looked terrible, a combination
    of poor run-blocking, lack of production from Green (6 carries for 10
    yards), Elway not being sharp, and probably most of all numerous drops
    by receivers.  The bad news that means something though is all the
    injuries: Vance sprained a knee, Fletcher spained an ankle, Sharpe
    got a concussion, Scott Curtis sprained an ankle, and Kip Corrington
    sprained an ankle.  The good news is that only Vance's injury is
    serious - he may miss a few weeks.
    
    1st-team defense looked pretty good, although the Niners hurt
    themselves quite a bit with holding penalties.  Brooks played a great
    game and Warren Powers also looked pretty good.  Rookie Kenny Walker
    secured himself a spot on the roster with 2 sacks and a forced fumble.
    
    Both Elway and Kubiak were calling their own plays, something Reeves
    said may last into the regular season.  
    
    4th-round pick Derek Russell also looked pretty good.
    
    Denver doesn't play again until a week from Monday against Miami.
    
     
    Joe

    You have to be kidding me Joe.  I though Russell (WR - #5) looked
    terrible.  Did he have a catch?  I saw him drop a thousand balls. 
    
    Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.
    
    Live from Charger Central.......Glenn

    Glenn,
    Russell had 3 catches and looked good returning kickoffs.  Yea he had 
    some drops, but who didn't last night.
    
    Joe
    

Getting beat 24-6 didn't bother me as mush as Denver Played 1st team offense
and Defense in the first half and the 9'ers played the first team for a single 
series and the starting QB didn't even play.
 At the half the score was 10-3shoulda been 13-3 S.F was relaxed and played
 with the belief that this is a preseason scrimage game. Denver was playing 
for "revenge of 55-10" they lookedbad they couldn't execute they played soft 
by trying not to give up the big play. 
As a Bronco fan I wasn't disappointed but real early this year I know that the 
class of the NFL is still in the NFC. 

Jeff

       It was a very bad game for the offense as a whole.   Denver needs to
    learn how to minimize that 5 yard pass.   9'rs Beat them consistently
    with this.
    
      You have to admire the man-man coverage on the 9'rs defense.  Even
    when a donk reciever would catch the ball,  there was always a def back
    there to put a hit on them.  Maybe Wymon should take lessons.
    
      The Miami game should be interesting. Marino will eat there lunch if
    things don't get better.
    
      Miami's D isn't that great,  so look for Denver to find the endzone, 
    which is something they seem to have problems with.
    
    	Tim

    >...the class of the NFL is still in the NFC.
    
    I disagree, I think there is both classy and sad-dog teams in both 
    conferences. Certainly you can not say that the Falcons or the Bucs
    are classy teams 'tho they're in the NFC, and likewise I don't think
    you'd consider teams like KC, Buffalo, Houston, and such to be without
    class.  Maybe you mean that the best in the NFC is better than the
    best in the AFC, but even that don't wash when you consider how
    teams like the Raiders, Dolphins and Steelers did -vs- the NFC in
    the last twenty years, or even better, just during the last ten
    years when the NFC was supposed to be superior. Maybe I'm being
    to critical here, but I for one, don't think that the class of the
    NFL is in the NFC ....only.
    
    Carlos  

    I think that the statement means that the only really outstanding
    teams today are in the NFC.  If so, I believe it.  The only really
    outstanding teams in the last 5 years have been in the NFC.  Despite
    the fact that LA and Miami had some excellent teams in the first
    half of the 80's, there have been no really oustanding teams in the
    AFC in the last 5 years.

    Denver is gonna have to spend some $$$ on their better players if
    they expect them stay around--Humphrey in particular.  He's making
    $300,000/year while Barry Sanders is getting ready to sign for 
    $2M/year.  Humphrey's stats last year were close to Sanders, too.
    Of course if Humphrey was pulling in $2M/year then Elway's feelings
    would be hurt, so they'd have to throw another Million/year to him.
    
    Look for countless RBs holding out before next season, BTW.
    
    Cowboy

    Some of the trade rumors involving Humphrey:
    
    -Humphrey to SF for a package including some offensive lineman who can
    play any position on the line but is best suited at guard.  Not what
    Denver needs.
    
    -Humphrey to SF for NT Michael Carter and a #1 draft pick.  
    
    -Humphrey to Tampa for rookie tackle Charles McRae.  They said on the
    news last night that Tampa turned this offer down.
    
    If the Broncos are seriously interested in trading Humphrey, they want to 
    get a starter and a 1st-round pick.
    
    Croel was signed Friday.
    
    Joe
    

      Denver would be dumb to try and get Mcrae anyway.  He is unsigned, so
    what is the difference between him and Humphrey?
    
      Humphrey will show.  He can't afford the fines for all season, and he
    also knows that he is the starter when he returns.   Green is ok, but
    he is to inconsistant to have a 1,000 yard season.  Plus if he was
    starter and got hurt,  who would back him up?  I think Green would
    be/is a good backup for Bobby.
    
      The other guys in camp aren't at the "pro" level yet, IMO.
    
          Tim

    
    	I can't believe those idjits are considering trading BH.
    	The Donks finally get a premier RB and two years later
    	they wanna get rid of him cuz he wants a pay raise (that
    	he deserves IMHO).  Sheesh.........
    
    	Claybone

      I had a Faider fan come and tell me that he had heard Vance has been
    traded.  Does anyone have knowledge of this?
    
      I think that would be a good move as long as they get OL or DL help. 
    Other than that,  forget it!
    
    	Tim

 I thought that Vancine was going to jail????

 oh poor Johnny poor Johnny but atleast he's got his first excuse...

 ;^)

mike

     Excuse for what?   With Vance out until after the Sep.1st opener, 
    then this should give Russel a chance to show something.
    
      Elway doesn't make excuses, if he plays bad, he will say so. 
    Besides,  he doesn't have to have Mommy there to comfort him when he
    loses,  unlike Boobsy....A pure momma's BOY! ;^^

    >Elway doesn't make excuses,
    
    He doesn't need to, what with all the excuses you Donk fans make for 
    him....:-)       
    
    >...if he plays bad, he will say so.
    
    You make him sound like a combination of John Wayne, Abe Lincoln,
    and George Washington all in one. Truth is tho, if Elway isn't the
    biggest whining, sniveling, crybaby, 'momma's boy' QB in the league,
    I don't know who is. Now if you wanna talk about manly QB's, take
    Jay Schroeder........why he's even got Geo. Washington's receding
    hairline ......:-)                                          
    
    Carlos

      Shroeder also has washington's teeth...Biffs are real...real big.
    
      Carlos,  you know Elway is god compared to your Qb.  Speaking of
    crying,  didn't shroeder scream until the Redskins finally dumped him?
    
      WE will see how they fair this year.
    
    	Tim

    The Donks play against the Dolphins this Monday night. Should be
    a pretty good game even if it's only pre-season. I think these last
    two pre-season games will be good indicators of what we can expect
    from most teams come the first game of the regular season. I also
    think the Dolphins are gonna have a good year this year (although
    I wasn't expecting Smith to get hurt), and if the Raiders don't
    make it to the big dance then the Dolphins will. JMHO
    
    Carlos

    
    Carlos,
    
    	I doubt this game will be a good indicator.  Miami has
    	something like 9 holdouts (7 of whom are starters).  They
    	also have ~3 starters out due to injury.  Now, if Denver
    	were to lose this game big time, you just might have an
    	indicator......
    
    Claybone

      Denver finally found the endzone last night.  The 1st qtr was
    terrible on the offensive side,  but then it was turned around.
    
      I would have liked to see Shawn Moore play instead of Kubiak.
    
      I think the Denver linebackers are looking great.  The DL still needs
    a impact player.  Bench Wymon Henderson.  He is a slug!  I think Li lo
    Lang can do better than this toast of a player.
    
      Elway looked normal.  Humphrey is needed.  Hamilton had 4 penalties,
    and Dave Widell had 2.  4 of the six were for early starts.
    
          Tim

    Anyone count the number of sacks in that game?  I've never seen
    Marino hit the turf that much!
    
    Cowboy

    RE: Cowboy
    I think Denver only got 1 sack on Marino, but they were pressuring him
    all night.  That's the thing about Marino: he holds onto the ball and
    isn't afraid to be hit after he releases the ball, which is much of the
    reason for his incredibly low number of sacks over the years.  Not to
    take anything away from Miami's offensive line, mind you.
    
    RE: Tim
    Yes, I also feel the 'backers are looking great, especially Brooks. 
    Croel didn't have alot of tackles but seemed to always be around the
    action or pressuring Marino.
    
    Elsewhere, a good performance as a whole, although Miami is without
    some key players due to holdouts and injuries.  I also agree with you
    Tim that they need Humphrey.  The running game was okay last night, and
    Lewis undoubtedly locked up his spot on the final roster.  I'm still
    worried about the offensive line - Hamilton either needs to come around
    or they need to acquire a left tackle pronto.  Defense continues to
    play very well and with alot of intensity.
    
    Other notes:
    
    Russell dropped a couple key passes, one of which may have gone the
    distance.  He should still make the team though.
    
    I'm not convinced Reggie Rivers will make this team, but he will
    probably survive today's cuts.
    
    The defense appears to be back to their aggressive style of 2 years
    ago.
    
    Veterans who may be in trouble IMO are Andre Townsend, Melvin Bratton,
    Chris Verhulst, Blake Ezor, Rick Dennison, and maybe even Steve Sewell.
    
    Kevin Clark remains a big question.  Does Denver keep a guy who
    contributes very little in the defensive backfield but may be the best
    return man they have?
    
    Joe

    
    Have the Donks ever won an NFL Championship...?

    
    	No, but our record in AFC champeenship games is perfect
    	wouldn't YOU say?  :-)
    
    	Oh, and btw, our resident fascist(sp?) moderator has set
    	up a note where we can carry on so to speak.  Thanks Mac! ;^)
    
    	Claybone

    
    re-2
      Icepork!!
    
    	Have the Brownspots ever beaten the Donkey's in a AFC champeenship?
    
    Cadzilla
    

    Humphrey seems to be up on the block. USA Today said that the Falcons 
    had spoke with Reeves and Reeves was qouted on this. The only catch was
    that Dan said they didn't offer enough. How is the rumor mill on the
    49ers picking him up? 
    			The Rookie

  Here's a guy who comes in gains 2300+ yards, catches and blocks and the
  Donks don't have a place for him? I guess Smellway can't stand to share
  the spotlight and went crying to Blowland (tm). They finally get a running
  game and now they're going to give it away....

  For the rest of the league's sake I hope if they do trade him they atleast
  don't send him to the Niners...

  mike

    Waived:
    
    Scott Beavers, G
    Matt McCall, T
    Melvin Bratton, FB
    Blake Ezor, TB
    Tony Alford, TB
    Tim Stallworth, WR
    Curtis Mayfield, WR
    Ernest Priester, WR
    Norris Hanes, WR
    Chris Verhulst, TE
    Pat Hegarty, QB
    Rick Dennison, LB
    Rollin Putzier, NT
    Doug Jacobs, DE
    Fred Foggie, CB
    Tracy Bennett, K
    
    Jim Juriga was placed on IR and is out for the season.  Alphonso
    Carreker was placed on the physically unable to perform list and can be
    activated after six games.
    
    
    Joe

    
    	I agree Mikey (except for the part about Godway crying to
    	Blowin(tm)).  However, there is a little more to the story.
    	The Donks have a policy about not renegotiating a contract 
    	that has more than a year left (Humphrey's has two).  They
    	have never bent on this rule and I kinda doubt they will
    	for him.  Look for BH to either come to camp with a lil'
    	promise whispered in his ear for a new contract before
    	next season (ala Steve Atwater) or to sit the whole year.
    
    	We'll see how things go when he starts missing paychecks......
    
    	Claybone

 In this day and age of a contract ain't worth the ink it's printed on it's
 a stupid rule. But hey Pat famous for being stupid.....

 and you're wrong about Smellway...look at his track record he's been a cryer
 since day 1.........

 mike

    
    Mikey,
    
    	I think you're confused by BBJ's facial expressions.  You see,
    	if you combine his big teefus with the squint (due to him
    	looking at the Donk sideline and thus into the sun), it appears
    	he's crying.  :^)  Glad to be able to help........
    
    Claybone

       Glad to see Hagerty gone.  It seems that the drafties are being held
    onto, until next week anyway.
    
       Mike,  quit squealling will ya?  At least the broncos have a QB. 
    Pitt is still searching for one.  Maybe they should get Shroeder;^  Of
    course the squealer games wouldn't be the same without boobsie's mom
    plastered on the screen.
    
      Maybe her and uncle Al have rights to showing there faces 20 times
    during a game.  I would hate to watch a faider vs squealer game;^
    
    		Tim

 Here's the write up and rankings in my official fantasy football special 
 magazine:

 #9 Bubby Brister: The Steelers finally started to get their offense to click
    last year and Bubby was the main beneficiary. The fifth year pro had his
    finest NFL season, throwing for 2,725 yards and 20 touchdowns. In the two
    previous years, Brister had thrown just 20 TD's while rushing for six. Last
    year he stayed in the pocket more and didn't rush for any td's. Brister is
    maturing as a quarterback, which is good news for the Steelers and good news
    for fantasy owners. Brister should again approach his 20 td season again 
    this year.

  #18 John Elway: Elway's number keep getting worse and worse. His 15 td's last
      year were his lowest since 1983 and the fourth time in the last 5 years
      they have dropped. Even though he rushed for 3 td's last year, Elway is 
      still a mediocre QB for fantasy owners. Elway has never thrown more than
      22 td's in a season, and now with the sore are he reportly has now it's
      highly unlikey that he will reach even that modest total in 1991....

  so you tell me who has a QB and who doesn't please????

  mike

    The qualities that make a player in any sport attractive to a fantasy
    owner are not necessarily the ones that make that player attractive to
    the real teams in the sport he plays, and vice-versa.  I wouldn't
    necessarily consider Brister a better QB than Elway just because his
    fantasy ratings are higher.
    
    John

 Sorry John but this is the Donk's note objectivety is not an admirable trait 
 in this note. While I concur that what makes a player attractive to a fantasy
 owner and a real team are two different things the fact of the matter is that
 Smellway is just plain bad and getting worst by the day while Brister is up
 and coming....

 Who would you rather have on the Pats if you were able to have either of these
 two???

 mike

    I don't know which one I'd take since I don't really know enough about
    either player.  I can't measure players the way a coach does because I
    don't have enough knowledge to do so.  I've also often said that in
    football individual stats are really a crock since the stats an
    individual player racks up are mostly a function of how the team is
    doing and not necessarily based on his own talents, hence, individual
    stats in football in and of themselves are not an accurate gauge of a
    player's value.
    
    John

 Brister likes women, beer, staying up late, chewing tabachey, fighting and
 cussing.

 Elway likes horses, crying, brie, being pampered and nestle crunchbars..

 now who do you choose???

 mike

    Easy, Elway.
    
    At least he doesn't need his mommy in the stands.
    
    Mark.

 no he has his doggie wife there instead...

 the only reason Bubby's mother is there cause he can't he chose which one
 of his gazillion girlfriends to bring to the game...

    
    	Janet (to us adoring Godway fans) is the best looking
    	QB's wife in the NFL.  How dare you call her a dog!
    
    	Yeah, I heard ole Bubble wanted to bring all his girlfriends
    	to a Steeler game.......but the local dog pound is closed
    	on Sundays.
    
    	Claybone 
    

    
    	Bring them to the Dawg Pound....plenty of bones to go around.
    
    	Dirty Dawg

    I seem to remember Joe Montana's wife looking pretty sharp, I say
    she may rate up there at NFL QB's #1 Good Looking Wife, of course
    I havent seen them all but JM definatly rates higher than Elway's.
    
    							MAB

    I heard Booby's mother is in the stands because he is still being
    breast fed! She is hoping to have him on solid food in the next 10-15
    years and then she will tackle poddy training!
    
    RC
    

    re-1   Good one.  Enough of that rathole, since Mike will always have
    something laime to sling back.
    
      The Broncs play Phoenix in Tempe tommorrow night.  Phoenix is
    undefeated in pre-season which I know doesn't count,  but look at their
    increasing talent, and I say it will be a typical Denver game.  They
    will make it close no matter who they play, not counting SBs.
    
      This game should resemble a regular season game since teams are
    trying to "fine tune" they're 1st stringers.  They will probably play
    through qtr.3. 
    
         Tim

    I know it was against a Patriots team that has a ton of holes to fill,
    but the Cardinals looked very impressive Saturday night...should be a
    good test for the Broncos.  
    
    
    py

       I heard the Cards qb could be out for the year. That means the Pats
    have a 'chance' when they go back there later this season. Rosenbach
    had a helluva game vs the Pats, but who doesn't!
                                   Denny

      Appearently Rosenbach messed up a ligament in his knee during
    practice yesterday,  so the Broncs have to play against they're #2 QB,
    who ever he is.
    
      What time does the game start?  I know its on ch 21.
    
    		Tim

    Game doesn't start 'til 8:30 and Tom Tupa will be Phoenix's QB.
    
    Joe

      I guess I'll be 1st to say ouch.  The Broncos got spanked in the
    second half Friday night.  Turnovers killed them.
    
      The offense just didn't seem to get much going.  Denvers rushing game
    could be in trouble if the pre-season is a sign of how its going to be.
    
      I didn't think the Defense sucked as bad as the score indicated. 
    When you turn the ball over inside your own 25 2x,  then your in deep
    stuff.  Actually all 3 turnovers were in denvers end.  Also,  the
    offense did alot of nothing,  which means the defense was on the field
    quite a bit,  especially in the 1st half.  It did actually get close to
    even in the second half.
    
      Get back in Bobby!!
    
    	Tim

FFL 12 round. 


Robichaud - Marv Cook, TE, Patriots
Wardle - Reggie Rembert, WR, Bengals
Pfau - Roger Craig, RB, Raiders
Hernandez - Steve Young, QB, 49ers
Dore - Ickey Woods, RB, Bengals
Childs - John Elway, QB, Broncos <<<<<<<<< Mike CHILDS worships  the DUKE>>>>>
Santos - 
Riggen - 
Maselli -
Polakowski - 

    Bronco cuts:
    
    Kevin Clark CB
    Kip Corrington S x
    Scott Curtis LB  x
    David Galloway DE
    Don Gibson NT
    Marcus Hopkins S  x
    Keith Jennings TE
    Barry Johnson WR
    Shawn Moore QB
    Mark Murray LB
    Brent Parkinson OT
    Jim Szymanski DE
    Andre Townsen NT x

    
    	The "x" in .248 indicates the player received an injury settlement.
    
    	Claybone

    Denver is expected to put Vance and Crawford Ker in IR and reclaim
    Clark and Gibson.  Moore, Murray, Jennings, Barry Johnson and Hopkins
    are all expected to be re-signed for the rookie developmental squad.
    
    Joe
                           

      I hope these guys make it thru waivers, especially Moore and Clark. 
    I don't know enough about the others.
    
      Maybe Denver could get a decent tackle off waivers...Doug Smith was
    cut by the rams.  Denver could use a pro-bowl Center.
    
      	Tim

    
    	Ida know Tim.  I think Kartz has been doing a good job
    	pro bowl or not.......
    
    	Claybone

      I kinda agree/disagree with ya Claybone.  The reason is Denver has a
    heck of a time running up the middle, which I know alot of teams do. 
    On the other hand, you are right, that he has usually done a good job
    on the pass rush,  and very rarely does he and Biff have a snapping
    problem.
    
      This guy from the RAms would be a good back-up or starter.  We know
    that Keith seems to get injured every year,  and ends up sitting out
    some games.  I guess thats my real point.
    
      Has anyone heard of the waivers and reclaims yet?
    
    		Tim

      Denver did put Vance and Ker on IR.
    
      Kevin Clark and Jim Szymanski were added to roster.
    
      Shawn Moore, Barry Johnson, Mark Murray, and Don Gibson are on the
    dev squad.
    
    
    		Tim

    LG Sean Farrell is doubtful for the Cincy game and will be replaced by
    Dave Widell.  Kartz will start despite a badly sprained ankle.
    
    I'm tired of hearing about the Humphrey situation.
    
    I hope Alfred Williams does good in the NFL, but I just hope that
    because he's playing 30 miles from his college campus he doesn't get
    too fired up and put Elway out for the year.
    
    Of course, I think Denver'll win on Sunday.
    
    My prediction for the season: 11-5
    
    
    Joe
       

       Sean Farrell has been 'doubtful' for about 3 years now. You guyz'll
    be lucky to get half a dozen games outta him.
                                          Denny

      I will wake up Sunday and get motivated,  thats if I'm not camping or
    something. 
    
      The Broncos should pull it out by 3-4 points.
    
      I think a 9-7 season is more like it.  They are to inconsistent to do
    much better.  Of course 9-7 should be good enough to get them into the
    playoffs,  but who knows.
    
    	Tim

       Whatta game!!!
    
      Elway mixed the play calling very well,  and the whole Bronco team
    looked like they could do no wrong.
    
      We will see if it is carried into LA this weekend.  We know that the
    FAiders defense is better than Cinncy's,  even though you wouldn't have
    thought that after the way they played against the oilers.
    
    	Tim

>                     -< Is this a sign of things to come? >-
    
    Let's hope so!
    
    Offense was near-perfect in the 1st half, only stalling on one drive
    where Treadwell missed a short FG.  That 3rd quarter had me worrying
    back to last year, but when Cincy was about to get back within 7
    Mecklenberg made the key play of the game sacking Boomer and causing
    a fumble.  And what a great way for Braxton to return, making the pick
    and returning it for a TD that just about sealed the win.  Croel and
    Mecklenberg made that play though, getting in Boomer's face and causing
    the bad throw.
    
    Denver had a field goal blocked and nearly had some extra points
    blocked.  The O-line looked real good, but keep in mind Cincy's defensive
    line isn't among the league's best.  
    
    I don't really expect a win this week in LA, but if they can pull it
    off we're looking at a possible 4-0 start.  If Denver can get out to a
    4-2 start that should be considered great with the  three tough road 
    games in there.  The Cincy game was a must-win IMO. 
    
    That penalty after Elway's 1st TD was total crap.
    
    
    Joe

    They had me worried there in the 3rd qtr. Cinci was in position to 	
    make it a 28-21 game untill the fumble down deep. There were a couple
    of blatant drops of Boomer's passes earlier that also hurt the Bengals
    badly. Denver's secondary still looks like swiss cheese. Anybody that can
    pick it apart will delight in some Bronco fondu. Before sunday, I
    was saying 8-8 but I can safely fudge now with a 9-7. 
    
    How about them Raiders? Outscored something like 100 to 20 in their
    past 2 games. What's going on with those guys? Everybody is saying
    how mad they're going to be. Are they still claiming to be just a
    good qb away from the bowl? Where's the defense?  As always we can
    throw out the stats on this one. Another FG will probably be the
    difference and maybe in OT. An 0-2 start will have them talking
    to themselves. 
    
    BoB
    

    AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
    
    
     What a game !!!!!   I knew that all Denver had to do was get away from
    the Collie Boy calling a game plan that even a Clowns fan could
    predict.  The Donks will have a good season.....  They should,  they
    do have a pretty weak schedule.  (Boy,  if Wardle could hear me say
    that he'd never beleive it)
    
    Big Game

    Donk tidbits from today's local rag:
    
    	Alphonso Carrecker will be back wk 7
    
    	Danny boy gives a big thumbs up for Al Davis being in the HoF.
    
    	BBJ needs 17 more yards passing to hit 25K.
    
    	Reeves is 9-10 against the Raiders as coach of the Broncos.
    	In those 19 games, only 15 points separate the scoring of
    	the two teams (LA 375 Donks 360).
    
    	Claybone

	Every time Denver wins big or pulls a upset over a team that is favored 
the week afterwards is spent gloating and floating over what a good team Denver
is and not concentrating on the weaknesses. Denver's O-line had lasted Sunday 
off, Expect a overconfident Offensive line that gets blown off the ball for the 
first half. I expect Denver's D to turn in a second strong performance. The 
key is to get to Schroeder early and often. 

Jeff

      I agree with the o-line bit Jeff.  It should be a classic
    Donk/faider game regardless.
    
    	Tim

    Well, Denver had a chance to go to LA and start the Faids off to nice
    0-2 start and further disturb their confidence.  And with KC's loss,
    take an early lead in a division that promises to be a dogfight.  But
    no.  They choke instead.
    
    This game was as ugly as last year's opener in LA.  The offensive line
    played terrible.  33 yards net rushing and 5 sacks, 'nuf said.  The
    defense played pretty good, although the key point in the game was
    where they let LA take the 2nd half kickoff and march downfield while
    consuming over 9 minutes off the clock.  The worst part of that drive
    was that they had LA and long yardage situations and let them off the
    hook.  2nd and 20 from LA's own 10.  3rd and 8 or 9 up around the 35. 
    A 1st and 15 a little later.  You gotta stop teams in 3rd and long,
    folks.  They were putting a lot of pressure on Schrader early, but
    decided to back off or stop blitzing or something in the 2nd half.  I 
    think they should be blitzing Schrader nearly every play.  He's the type 
    of QB that fumbles and gets rattled if you put enough pressure on him.  
    Schrader's not a great QB,.but if you give him the time, he will pick you 
    apart (as will most any NFL QB if he's given the time to sit in the pocket 
    and eat his lunch).
    
    Other tidbits:
    Denver had some missed opportunities on offense in the 1st half where
    they had to settle for 3.  They also didn't recover fummbles by Craig
    and Schrader that may have turned it around.  This game showed how
    important Clark is returning kickoffs and punts. 
    
    I find it mandatory that Denver win their next 2 games, both of which
    are at home and against teams they should beat.  
    
     
    Joe

    
    	You can chalk the Raider win up to their defensive line.  They
    	completely dominated Denver's O-line.  Elway was lucky to be
    	sacked *only* 5 times.  He was running for his life on practically
    	every other passing play.
    
    	Claybone

       I thought denvers def line played bad in the second half.  Like Joe
    said,  keep the pressure on the QB,  and he will choke.
    
       All in all,  it was a typical Bronco/faider game.  It won't be any
    different come nov. 10th.   These kind of games I like,  because they
    are always close and it seems to come down to the final seconds before
    its decided.  Almost got the onsides kick.  That would have been
    interesting.....
    
       Next week is Seattle,  and expect another classic rival game.
    
    	Tim

    
     Well,  The Damn Donks stepped on it once again...  I surely can't live
    through another Jeckel and Hyde season.  I say fire Reeves, Bench Elway
    and pay Bobby H. what ever he wants to come play ball.  The Donks 
    could be in for a long long long season if they lose next week to the
    Seachickens......   ;^)
    
    Big Game
    
    P.S.  The Donks are still 3,000,000,000 time better than the Clevescum
          Clowns have ever been !!!!!  

    Let's face it.  Until the Broncos invest heavily (no pun intended) in a
    good left tackle, they will continue to play inconsistent through the
    year.  In fact, I look for John Elway to get seriously hurt this year
    for the first time, due to a missed block by the left tackle.  The left
    tackle has got to protect the (right-hand) quarterback's blind side,
    and I don't see anyone that has done that yet.

    Dale

    
    	Hey Big Lame,
    		
    		Man you are really trying to get into it, arn't you?
    
    	Your Donkies are so much better arn't they.....thats why they are
    undefeated...right?  Lets see some stats here.  Lets see why they are
    just so much better.
    	Your screw ball team will be in the Dawg Pound this year again and
    the outcome will remain the same.  Bernie is better than that donky
    face guy with the teeth that grow out of his nose.  Come on man, lets
    see the stats that support your stinking attitude.  
    	Donky face's days are numbered.  I agree with Dale.
    
    	Go eat a bone.  Here I have one for you right here.  A nice big
    one.
    
    	Grrrrrrrrr!
    

Yup.

There's ol Hal, "strutting his chest" to quote ACC.  His team lost
to Dallas (an unproven commodity at best) and beat the worst team
in the NFL.  And he's all beatin' up on everyone else.

Wait and see what happens.  In a few weeks, Hal Houdini will disappear
until next preseason....

Hey Hal, how're the Indians doing????

'Saw

>    	Your screw ball team will be in the Dawg Pound this year again and
>    the outcome will remain the same.  

    Yea, the it'll be the same outcome as all those AFC Championship games.
    
    You will be long gone from notes by then (Dec. 8th) when your dawgs
    are about 4-9.
    
    
    Joe          
 

      Way to go Cacti,  Hal is riled up, and he will yap until they lose to
    a team with a winning record.  Actually,  who knows,  the stains might
    even lose to the kitty cats this weekend....
    
      As to benching Elway,  c'mon, that won't happen.  I think the lines
    lost this last game.  Reeves and Elway didn't do it.  Sure Elway 
    overthru Nattiel on the 1 yard line,  but he was being chased.
    
      If it was Reeves, then blame him for only having 3 d-linemen in the
    game.  The announcers kept saying the Broncs only had 4 healthy
    linemen,  so maybe he should get another on the squad, and maybe put a
    RB on practice team.
    
      I'm wondering how good the Defense would do in a 4-3 instead of 3-4?
    
    
    	Tim

    
    You want some stats???
    
    	Here is one:
    
    		#1 QB after week 2 = Kelly
    
    			don't ask me how he gets rated 1st with 3 INT'S
    
    		#2 QB after week 2 = BERNIE KOSAR OF THE CLEVELAND BROWNS
    			with a rating of 113.5
    
    			and where is horse face???????
    
    		No, I won't be gone either......I'll be sure to be here
    just to give you crap and make you eat crow after the Browns/Dongs
    game.
    
    		Dirty Dawg

    QB rating is a function of 4 things - completion percentage, average
    gain per completion, TD percentage and Int percentage.  Kelly has
    thrown a lot of long passes and a lot of TD passes, so those figures
    could very easily balance out the 3 interceptions.
    
    John

    >	#1 QB after week 2 = Kelly
    >	don't ask me how he gets rated 1st with 3 INT'S
    
    Eight TD passes for starters, which gives Kelly an 8 to 3 TD pass to INT 
    ratio.  I'll take that from my QB any day.
    
    
    py

    Oh, and QB rating is like batting average.  It takes a lot of games for
    the true rating to be known.  With such a small number of games early
    in the season, just like with batting averages, QB ratings tend to be
    either abnormally high or abnormally low.
    
    John

    >    Oh, and QB rating is like batting average.  It takes a lot of games for
    > the true rating to be known.  With such a small number of games early
    > in the season, just like with batting averages, QB ratings tend to be
    > either abnormally high or abnormally low.
    
    > John
    
    
    
    
    > 		#2 QB after week 2 = BERNIE KOSAR OF THE CLEVELAND BROWNS
    > 			with a rating of 113.5
    
    This is obviously an abmormally high rating.
    
    But then, its still not that bad for a QB that scrambles in highheels.
    
    Cowboy
    

    Cowboy...
    
     You beat me to it.  I'm quite sure that Bernie will finish in the to 5
    to 8 in QB ratings this season, he always does.  The only problem for 
    the Clowns will be that they'll finish last in their Division, last in
    the AFC and darn close to the bottom in the league.....  Hal,  You
    outta know by now that I'm not a stats man....  football is purely 
    emotional for me.  BTW John Hendry,  Where is John-Boy on the QB rating
    list ???
    
    	Big Game

    
    	Big Game,
    		He is rated below Bernie.  3rd and about 8th in the NFL.
    
    	Dirty Dawg

    There will be 3 changes in Denver's lineup this Sunday, 2 due to injury
    and 1 due to performance.  Jeff Davidson will replace Darrell Hamilton
    at LT because Hamilton hasn't been cuttin' it.  Nattiel will return
    punts because Clarks isn't ready to go yet.  Michael Brooks will miss a 
    game or two and be replaced by rookie Keith Traylor.
    
    If Denver is going to contend for the AFC West this Sunday's game
    against Seattle is a must win.
    
    Joe

      Clark isn't ready yet?  Nattiel has proved that he is scared when
    people are running at him on returns,  so maybe Le Lo lang?
    
      Denver should get 4-5 sacks this game,  and maybe 2-3 ints....
    
    	Tim

    Going into this week, Kelly has a completion pct in the seventies, had
    8 TDs and an average per attempt of over 9 yards.  That more than
    balanced out the 3 interceptions.
    
    John

      Well this game was a typical "Broncos try to find way to lose" game. 
    For the most part, the game was boring.  The Broncos about lost this
    game. For some reason,  the Broncos went to the prevent defense on
    Seachickens last drive.  Yes there were finally 4 linemen on this
    series,  but no blitzing when it was needed?
    
      The offense studdured (sp?) again.  Why can't they get that piece of
    leather in the endzone?  The field goals are better than nothing, but
    TDs are a must if they are going to compete against the better teams.
    
      Don't ever say Denver gets they're way all the time.  Look at the 1st
    fumble of John L.  He lost it,  but the play wasn't reveiwed.  At least
    the refs reviewed the Atwater recovery and overturned that one.
    
      The ball was greased yesterday.....
    
    
      Next week,  the winless Chargers,  who need a kicker;^
    
    	Tim

    Seems that Dan Reeves and John Elway completely forgot the running
    game in the second half. Greg lewis didn't get a single carry in the
    game. Perryman proved why he is only a plan B player. He can't
    catch the ball. 
    Denver's secondary laid some hits on the Seahawks Sunday. The entire
    pass defense looked strong, and Croel put a hit on Kemp that made his
    dad winch in pain. 
    
    Jeff 

>    For some reason,  the Broncos went to the prevent defense on
>    Seachickens last drive.  Yes there were finally 4 linemen on this
>    series,  but no blitzing when it was needed?
    
    That was my biggest gripe, not just on the last drive but in the whole
    4th quarter.  They had Kemp running scared in the 3rd quarter, and when
    a team's behind 16-0 or 16-3 in the 4th quarter they have to pass the
    ball.  Didn't we talk about this last week?
    
    The offense also didn't help in the 4th, not even getting a first down
    in that quarter.  I don't really think it was play-calling, mostly poor
    execution and Seattle's gambling defense paying off.  Green entered the
    4th with something 21 carries for 96 yards and ended the game with 25
    carries for 92 yards.  5 of Denver's last 6 offensive plays were
    passes.
    
    For the first 3 quarters Denver looked good but not great.  Offense
    moved the ball fairly well but had to settle for FG's 3 times,
    including being stopped inside the Seattle 1-yard line.  Seattle moved
    the ball well on their first 2 drives, but didn't do much after that
    until the 4th quarter.
    
    Dennis has been laying some hits this season....Mike Horan is quietly
    off to a poor start punting the ball.
    
>       Next week,  the winless Chargers,     
    
    They better win this one.  They *should* be able to keep Friesz (sp?)
    and co. out of the end zone.  Kind of an interesting note that 2 teams
    from San Diego will be in Colo. this weekend; San Diego State will be in 
    CS Saturday to take on Air Force and the Chargers will be in Denver on 
    Sunday.
    
    
    Joe
    

    It sounds like Bobby Humphrey may be traded this week, probably to
    the 49ers.  This whole thing was stupid--on both sides, IMO.  Denver
    shouldn't have been so hard-nosed since they need his running ability
    and BH shouldn't have thought he was so valuable.  True, he's probably
    worth more than Denvers paying him but he should have waited until
    he was in camp and talked.
    
    Cowboy
    

      Bobby hasn't been traded yet.  Reeves wants alot for him,  and no
    team is willing to pay the price.
    
      Appearently Bobby came back to Denver and packed all his stuff up and
    is gone,  so the media says.
    
      I still Denver needs him! Green has done ok,  but he seems to side
    step to much,  and Bobby always heads towards the endzone.
    
    
      Tim Lucas is out forr at least 8 weeks....Broken leg.  This gives
    Croel the Start I guess.
    
      Elway and Kosar are the only 2 AFC starting QBs without an int...
    
    	Tim

    I was at the game four rows up and I will tell you that the defense was
    laying some serious hits on Seattle. I agree with a few back that
    Denver's offensive problems were more execution in nature, than play
    calling. One difference I've seen between Green and Humphrey is Green
    seems more likely to run into a closed hole where Bobby would go on his
    own and try to make something happen. As much as I would love to see
    Bobby in the backfield, I am glad Denver did not give in to him. My
    $.02.
    
    BUDMAN
    
    

    
    	I agree the play calling was good...........until the
    	last two series.  Elway (I'm assuming) called 5 passes
    	out of the 6 plays.  He only completed one.  Thus, he
    	stopped the clock 4 times for the Seahawks.  I estimate
    	he gave them a minimum of 2 extra minutes of clock.
    
    	Claybroon

    
     Well,  The_Donks (TM) did it again.....  I swear if you give them a 
    lead they sit on it no matter if 20 points or 1 point.  I really have
    started to hate watching second halfs.....  I wish they'd play an
    entire game for a change,  that would be nice wouldn't it?  I still
    say fire the Collie Molester (sp?), Bench horse teeth and get the 
    greedy little SOB Humphries back in uniform before it's to late to 
    keep the Faiders from holding to first place all year.
    
    
    Big Game

    
    	There's a big sale on clues down at the mall.......:^)
    
    	Claybone

    HEY CLAY WAD.... POUND SAND UP YOUR A**......  
    
     If the Donks would have fired the Collie Master a few years back
    they would have won those three Stupidbowls instead of banishing
    us Donk fans to a life of living hell having to put up with all 
    the shit about their *GREAT* efforts in  the "Big Game".....  I 
    still say fire The Collie, Bench John "Boy" Walton, and get that
    greedy little SOB Booby HumpsTrees back on the grid where he 
    belongs.  You may not agree now but you'll be calling for head(s)
    later in the season,  mark my words !
    
     Don't get me wrong,  I like the Donks(tm)  but they'll never be 
    anything but an average team with Tom Landry Jr. running the team.
    I think with the right coach Elway would be a much better QB than
    he is today.  I say give the team a chance Pat Bowlen..... Clean
    your house and start at the top !!!

    
    	Nah Jack, trying to cut down (on the sand pounding that is).
    
    	Those three Super Bowls were decided in the NFC champeenship
    	games.  The only one I even remotely thought they had a
    	chance in was the game against the Giants.  The bottom line
    	in all three games is that the defense was a sieve.  Small
    	and quick yeah, but not able to stop the bullies from the
    	NFC East and their smash-mouth football.  If you remember,
    	Joe Collier had the reigns of the defense all to himself.
    	He's gone.  And until they get a few stud muffins on the
    	D-line, they'll never win a Super Bowl IMHO.
    
    	Claybone

      re-1  I think you it it on the nose Clay.  1-2 great pass rushers
    would make denvers defense like the NFC bad boys.  To bad they didn't
    get Smith last year or whenever they offered him $$$.
    
      Maybe, but not likely, Carreker can help out when he gets back in
    action oct 6th.
    
      Jack,  relax anad breath deeply,  your to young for this.  You have
    been a Denver fan since I've known you,  and Denver has played this
    "lets see how we can lose this game" type of ball for the past 8-10
    years.  Yeh, they do have some great come from behind wins,  but not to
    often.  
    
     I'm a Bronco fan for 2 reasons. 1)  I have lived in Colorado all my
    life (with the exception of some years away at school) so I have been a
    fan for 20 years.  2)  They're games are always nail biters, SBs not
    included.
    
    	Tim

    
    
    
    Atlanta, we love you!!!!!!!!
    
    First half was pretty lackluster and it was tied 6-6 at intermission. 
    Elway missed 2 open receivers in the first half and they had to settle 
    for field goals both times.  First he missed Kay heading for the corner
    of the end zone and then he missed Kay again when he was *wide* open at
    the back of the endzone.  
    
    Offense finally produced in the 4th when I thought they would end up
    letting the defense take it down to the wire again.  Green didn't do
    anything until the 4th, when he ran that 63-yarder and then the 20-yard
    run to ice it.  The offense did have a chance to end the game with
    about 10 minutes left leading by 8, but they went 3 downs and out. 
    I thought SD's defense played well - they at least looked a little more
    like the one that has the talent to be one of the league's best instead
    of the last-ranked defense in the NFL.
    
    I can see why you Charger guys dislike Henning.  I can't believe he
    went for that 4th and 6 in the 3rd quarter trailing by 4.  Talk about a
    terrible call.  You don't go for it on 4th and that many yards when
    it's still in the 3rd quarter and it's close.  Granted, the FG attempt
    would've been about 45 yards, but their kicker had alread hit three
    from beyond 40 on the day.
    
    The defense had some poor tackling and they should still be
    playing more aggressive IMO.  I said it last week and I'll say it
    again this week - Horan is still kicking poorly.
    
    
    Joe

     Well,  our beloved Donks did it again.....  Not near as bad as usual,
    but damn close!  I'm talking about letting a far worse team bring a
    game very close to the wire.  These Donks need to learn to ICE a game
    when they have the chance,  thats the true mark of a champion. 
    
     I think things went a little better this week with the offense.  I
    guess we can let horse face continue to call plays if he does as 
    well as he did yesterday.  I still say the the collie boy should take 
    a walk though.  
    
     3 - 1....  not to bad at this point in the season....  We're at the
    top of the AFC West thanks to Jerry's Kids down in Atlanta Ga.  Boy
    was I suprised to see that final....  The Faiders just aren't they
    team the used to be.
    
     Well,  If the Donkeys can stick 3 or four more wins under their belts
    this year won't be a total disaster ala the 89-90 season where they
    were an embrassment to the state of Co.  I really hope they can make
    it to the first round of the playoffs....  It will be good experience
    for the young guys on the team who haven't been there.
    
    
    Big Game
    

       Do you Donk fans notice what ex-whipping boy and once again genius
    Joe Collier is doing up here in NE? He's turned the Pats D into a
    juggernaut (67 points allowed). Didn't Reeves say the game had "passed
    him by"?
                                      Denny

    
    	Yeah, that's great.  Glad to see ole Joe doing well.  I
    	always kinda felt he was let go due to pressure from Blowin(tm)
    	to purge everybody left over from the Red Miller daze.
    
    	Has he put any new wrinkles in his defensive schemes?
    
    	Claybone

    
     I'm glad that Collier  is in New England Helping the Patsies......
    Now they can retake some of the records the Donks took in their
    Stupidbowl thrashings.....  That is if they ever make the Playoffs
    again...   ;^)
    
    
    Big Game

       Defense did not get enough pressure on Friesz yesterday.  Yes Meck
    did FINALLY get to him at the  end of the game,  but I don't recall any
    other sacks.
    
      I thought up the middle looked like Reeves of old.  It seems Elway
    had the RBs go up the middle 20+ times yesterday.   Green didn't do
    that much other than the 2 runs as Joe stated.  Why keep running up the
    middle if its not working?  This wasn't Cinncy again.
    
      The faiders sip...or should I say Schreoder......
    
    
         Any key injuries?
    
    	Tim

 Cmon now Big Game get with the program will ya...3 or 4 more wins will make
 the season? 2 games against the Patriots, a 5th place schedule, I'd say any-
 thing less than 11 wins is a wasted season...

 I agree with you though they should bench Elway but not until after this
 week. CLAYBROON nailed the resons why earlier. 

 Green is not Humphrey, anyone who think the Donks were smart not to sign
 him.... 

 ;^)

      I see Mikey is back.   Hey Mike,  I don't want any bridges, its
    funner to just drive through the river;^
    
      Maybe the Stellers could by a QB?
    
    	Tim

    Well,..... Leaving for vacation tomorrow,  Just didn't want anyone
    to think I disappeared after the donks lose to the V-Kings this 
    weekend....  I'll be back on the 8th or 9th
    
    Big Game

    Wasn't last year's Viking game a sunday night game at Minnie also?
    Yeah and the Broncos were winning at the half and came out
    half asleep in th 3rd quarter and handed Minnie a much needed win.
    By that part of the season the pattern was deeply set and I just 
    couldn't watch the rest of the game. Last year just about all opponents
    stood in line to get a come-from-behind-much-needed-win. 
    
    Denver has back-to-back games in domes. It's the Homer Dome this week
    then on to the House of Pain the following sunday. The 'rap' on the
    Broncos is that they can't win on plasto grass and cant win in domes. 
    Splitting the next 2 sounds reasonable ending up 4-2 and then a week
    on the beach. 
    
    BoB
    
    GO 9'ERS! (this week anyway)

      I think the Broncos stand a better chance at beating the Vikes more
    than they do with Houston. Moon will have a field day unless the D puts
    major pressure on him.
    
      The Broncos might have a tough time scoring against the Vikes.  It
    should be interesting.  Splitting wouldn't be half bad,  but 2 L's are
    most likely if Denver continues this "road" trend they have going...
    
       Tim

    *Huge* win...Hell, that's an understatement.  I think I lost about 5
    years off my life in the last 7 minutes though.  But we send absolutely
    no thanks out to SD and SF :(, making this win all the more important.
    
    Where do we start?...Okay, Lewis' fumble.  You know, as soon as Green
    left the game, that's the first thing that entered my mind.  Here comes
    a guy who is cold and has been sitting the whole game.  The only thing
    that could've been worse here would've been a turnover returned for a
    TD.  I'll admit, as soon as Minney recovered the fumble I thought
    Denver would lose.  This game had Buffalo of last year written all over
    it.  Except this year, it wouldn't be 77 seconds, it would've been ONE
    play - the fumble.  If Denver would have lost this game they wouldn't
    have recovered all season IMO.  All I can say is I'll take all those drops 
    by Minn's receivers.  Denver needed this one bad, especially after nearly
    having it locked up halfway thru the 4th.
    
    Green was just incredible, ending up with 158 yards.  Who would've
    thought he'd be leading the AFC in rushing after 5 weeks??? Looked like a
    couple of times he would break it.  Elway had a subpar night
    statistically, but he had terrible protection and many drops by
    receivers.  Green dropped a probable TD pass in the 2nd quarter.
    Offense didn't do too much in the 1st half -  I got the
    feeling there was some kind of invisible wall around midfield.
    
    Elway's TD run was just great.  The way he just bulled over that
    fullback got the whole team fired up.  As bad as the OL was protecting
    Elway, they were obviously opening up some holes for Gaston.
    
    I don't care what Denver does next week at the House of Pain.  They
    got what they needed here, a split on the road and at least a 4-2
    start.  If they would've gone on the road and lost road it would've
    dropped them to .500 and taken away their momentum and confidence.
    I'll put it this way: A win next week would be pure gravy, and I'll be
    very surprised if they can go down there and win.  (Actually, I'm
    surprised when anybody wins down in Houston).  Now if we can just get
    some help from the Chargers and Luckalo(tm) next week...  Damm, I hate
    rooting for the Bills.
    
    
    Joe
       

I didn't watch much of the game.

How did the deaf player on the d-line do?  I saw a news report
on him, and have been trying to follow the story up.

Any info, greatly appreciated....

'Saw

    
    'Saw,
    
    	Last week, he got a clutch sack at the end of the game
    	to help ice it.  His name is Kenny Walker BTW.
    
    	Last night, Anthony Carter got the ball on a reverse
    	which looked like it caught the whole defense, including
    	Walker, overpursuing.  Walker hit the brakes and reversed
    	himself.  He took off like a shot and caught Carter on
    	the sidelines (held him to a 4-6 yard gain).  Walker has
    	great speed.
    
    Claybroon

      That was a good play by Walker.  Fletcher was suckered REAL bad on
    that.  He saw CArter coming around,  but kept going for the other back
    instead of just side stepping 4-5 steps and catching CArter for a 10
    yrd loss.  O'well......
    
    
      I thought it was a good game called by Elway.  He did overthrow a
    couple,  especially down on the 3-5 yard line.  I beleive the fullback
    or Green was open,  but Biff had to "loft" it 3 yards over a Vike
    defender,  thus missing a wide open reciever.   There were alot of
    dropped balls by both teams,  which will decide momentum every time.
    
      I thought the O-line did ok protecting Elway.  I'm not sure how many
    times he was sacked, 2 maybe?
    
      The Lewis fumble did p me off,  but Denver had to find a way to let
    Minny back in.
    
      Horan was 27th in punting a beginning of last night.  He had 2 good
    kicks inside 20,  but looked so-so the rest of the time.
    
    
      Denver still needs more pressure on QB!!!!  If they don't stunt/blitz
    this weekend against Houston,  then look for blowout by Houston,  or
    high scoring affair as long as Denver moves the ball well.
    
      Green did have a good night running,  but that 1 stat was shown,
    which 47% of Green's yards came on 6 carries.  Good or bad???  I say
    questionable,  but last night he was consistant on yards/carry.  Did
    anyone notice that he seemed to line up farther away from scrimmage
    than normal?  He looked like Dickerson does way back there.....
    
    
         Tim  

       Mr Ed premiered on Network TV 30 years ago today.
                                    Denny

>       Mr Ed premiered on Network TV 30 years ago today.

And I was 3 years and two days old....8^)

      Hate to tell ya Denny, but a donkey is not the same as a horse;^
    
      Tim

	A horse is a horse, of course, of course
	and no one can talk to a horse, of course,
	Unless, of coure, the horse, of course,
	Is the famous Mr Ed.

    However boys,
    A horse + donkey= Mule (Elway's teef)
    

    >                         -< Mule High stadium >-
    
       What Burrow is it in?
                                   Denny

    Hal-Lay-Yew-Ya,   MY  Life Is Now Complete!!!!
    
    
    Went to a "Pizza Hut" lasted night here in Colorado Springs for the
    $3.99 "All-U-Can-Eat" special, (they lost money on me).  Was there
    about 10 minutes when one of the "waiters", and I use the term loosely,
    comes walking thru with his hands full of rolled up paper.  As he did
    at other tables, he stops at my table and says, "Would you like a free
    John Elway poster???"   
    
    The tone of voice he was using was something like what you'd expect to
    hear if someone was asking you if you wanted guaranteed entry to
    heaven.  
    
    BTW, I took one.  Just gotta figure out a use for it.  The dog's
    already paper trained and I don't have a bird.
    
    
    (8^)*   (8^0*   (8^)*
    
    
    JaKe

       gee Jake, now you have something to cover up your Bernie poster!
                                 Denny  ;^o

    
    	Hey!  You'd better hang onto that poster.  Someday, it's
    	gonna be worth..........well............something. ;^)
    
    	Claybroon

    
    >>   gee Jake, now you have something to cover up your Bernie poster!
    >>                             Denny  ;^o
    
    Nah, I got a Bernie poster in the mail from an ANONYMOUS source.
    As soon as I opened it up, my dog ran over and took it right out of my
    hands and ran behind the couch with it, and proceeded to soil the thing
    right in the middle of Bernice's face.
    
    And they call 'em "dumb animals"!!
    
    JaKe
    

    It's looks like the Broncos might be able to unload Humphrey.  The
    Broncos want a 1st and a 3rd round choice.  The 49ers offered their
    1992 1st round pick about a week and were turned down, but now have
    supposedly offered a 1st and a 5th round choice.  
    
    Denver certainly won't get his full worth and probably won't get what
    they're asking, but they should unload him for what they can get before
    the Oct. 8th trading deadline.  If they don't trade him before the
    deadline he will end up sitting out the entire season and then his
    stock will really plummet.  Look at the Vikes and Dozier - he's on his
    2nd year of a holdout.  They'll probably never get anything for him. 
    Trade Humphrey now Denver and get what you can while the gettin's good!
    
    Joe

      I think Reeves should go for a Defensive or off linemen who is a
    pro-bowler and a lower draft pick.
    
      Just 'cause Denver gets a 1st round pick,  doesn't mean they will get
    someone worth while.  Plus,  if they did get a good 1st rounder, how
    long would it take to make this person a starter?  All those questions
    can be answered better with someone who is already established.
    
        Just my thoughts.....
    
    
      So Jake,  how do ya like this place so far?
    
    	Tim

    
    
    
    Denver loses 42-14 but many, many thanks go out to SD as the Faiders
    also lose.
     
    Denver was never in this one, but the defense actually played pretty
    well.  Houston's first TD was a recovered blocked punt in the end zone,
    2nd TD was a 1-yard drive after an int, 3rd TD was a 13-yard drive
    after a fumble, and the 4th TD was a fumble returned for a TD. 
    Only Houston's last 2 TD's were good drives of 80 and 74 yards. 
    Needless to say, Denver's turnovers were *very* costly.  Total yardage
    was only 376 to 363 in favor of Houston.
    
    But Denver's offense was pathetic in the first half.  After that first
    drive, before the punt was blocked, I had a feeling it was going to be
    a long day.  I expected an onslaught of Houston points right after
    that, but Denver kept it at 7-0 until the 2nd quarter when the roof
    caved in.  Once again, Elway was running for his life and was sacked 6
    times.  I'll tell you, if a team gets ahead of Denver by a couple of
    TD's all they need to do is start blitzing Elway.  It's kind like
    getting ahead of a wishbone team and forcing them to pass.  Denver did
    do a little in the 2nd half but the game was over for all intense
    purposes.  The running game was bad yesterday but I felt like it never
    got a chance to get in sync - Denver only ran the ball on less than
    one-third of their offensive plays.
    
    
    Joe
    

    Hey, I found out something out here in Colorado that nobody told me
    about.
    
    When did Bif go into the restaurant business??
    
    I was down at the Royal Gorge yesterday, and what place did I see????
    
    "Mr. Ed's Family Restaurant".  Now this place is for real.  I wonder if
    everybody that works there has to wear a jersey with #7 on it, plus a
    fake set of Teef!!
    
    Yesterday's special was probably "Burnt Donkey, fried in OIL"!!!
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    

Well I witnessed Dan Reeves version of the Run n' shoot yourself in the foot. 

The mistakes were pitiful Denver wanted a split in the Domes and that's what 
they got. The only bright spot was I didn't see any bodies get carried off the 
field other than Sean Farrel "shoulder". Denver did injure the Oilers though. 
The Houston team is tough,but unless Lee Williams comes back real soon they 
are hurting on the Defensive line. They should be able to hold off the rest of
the AFC Central this year. 

      Well,  I guess I'm glad that I missed this game.  I turned on the
    tube at half time, and NBC was showing the score,  and I thought I was
    seeing a SB score.
    
      Yes,  thanks faiders for choking.  KC is next after a 1 week off.
    
      I think KC will win tonight, 'cause the bills defense isn't as good
    as they are made up to be.
    
    	Tim

      I think all the AFC West will lose (or tie)next week. The only team that
    stands a chance at winning is the Broncos.  the "BYE" are playing good
    ball,  and if they don't choke in the 4th,  they might win it.
    
      A 8-8 season will win this division,  whomever it might be.
    
    JaKe
    

    Broncos acquired 8-year veteran offensive tackle Harvey Salem from Detroit 
    for a 2nd or 3rd round pick in next year's draft, depending on how much he 
    plays this year.  He has played mostly right tackle in his career but
    calls left tackle his natural position.  He's 6-6, 290.
    
    Joe

	General Norman Schwartskopf was viewing the battlefield in the
	aftermath of Desert Storm when he kicked something in the sand.
	Upon closer inspection he noticed it was a lamp and began to
	rub it.  Out popped a genie who offered the general one wish.
	General Schwartskopf pulled out a map o the middle east and said

	"I would Like to have Eternal Piece for this entire region on
	this map".

	"Sorry" the genie replied "That would be Impossible"
	
	General Schwartskopf folded the map and began to walk away when
	"Hey Wait a minute" the genie called "You still have a wish"

	The General thought for a moment then said
	"I would like to see the Denver Broncos Actually win a SUPERBOWL"

	HHmmmmm the Genie Pondered...






		"Let me see that Map Again"

      re-1   I bet it took you all day to think that one up huh?

    Actually there's proberbly 10 People in here that have already
    read that note, unless they never look on the back of that page
    that folds out :-)
    							M_Air

    What's the story on Humphries? Did he get traded or will he be picking
    splinters out of his butt for the rest of the year? He was a high draft
    pick of mine in a homegrown version of fantasy football.

    Humphrey did not get traded and there's no indications that he'll be
    reporting any time soon.
    
    Jeff Mills hurt his knee in practice and will miss 4-6 weeks.  That
    means Croel will get most or all of the work at LOLB since Tim Lucas is
    already out with a broken leg.
    
    The Broncos signed former Pro-Bowl nose tackle Brian Sochia yesterday
    and waived DE Jim Szymanski.  Sochia was waived by Miami last week.
    
    
    Joe

      Now with Sochia in,  does that mean Kragen might get less playin'
    time?  Kragen had a pro-bowl year in 89? ,but I don't think he does
    much for pass rushing.  of course most of the DL is something to be
    desired in pass situations.
    
      Symanszki is no loss.  Mills was having a good year so far.  To bad. 
    Did they bench Wymon yet?  I'm sure he got burned by the oilers many
    times (I didn't see the game)......
    
    
    	Tim

    Looks like Bobby will have to sell some of his gold chains to
    make it throught the winter.
    
    BoB

    
    	Denver also traded a conditional 2cd or 3rd round draft
    	pick ('92) to Detroit for an OT named Salem.  He's a
    	veteran lineman and will supposedly shore up the LT
    	position for Biff.
    
    	Claybroon

    
     Well,Well, Well......
    
      I can only say that I am glad that I was in NYC and was fortunate
    enough to miss the debachle of a game for the DONKS.  I guess my fears
    from the Minny game came to pass a week late (I predicted a huge DONK
    Lose).  The only exposure I had to this game was from BACK BACK BERMAN
    on ESPN after the fact.  It sure looks like everything was even except
    the scoreboard and turnovers at the end of the game.  I know the DONKS
    are a better team than they showed when they played the Houscum Soilers
    weekend before last.
    
     At any rate,  I went out to NYC to visit family for a couple of weeks
    and when things got really boring I went over to the toxic waste dump
    on the other side of the river (Jersey) to visit our favorite Jesters
    Fan.  Thats right,  Jim "The PEE PEE SMOOCHER" Wardle is alive and
    well.  We went to the Jesters Vs Fish game and had a pretty good time.
    I do however have several complaints about the game.  
    
    		o you can't get more that 2 beers per person per run
    
    		o its low alcohol beers so you can't get buzzed
    
    		o the beer is $4.00 per 12 oz class
    
    		o the beer is warm
    
    		o they stop serving beer after the first half
    
     Now you teel me,  how the heck is a guy supposed to enjoy a football
    game in the "Big East Rutherford" when he can't even have 10 ice cold,
    big, alcohol saturated beers.  other than that I enjoyed the game.
    
     The only other complaint I have about the experience is that JoJ made 
    My girl friend, Dan Schnieder and Myself take the train back from
    Jersey late at night through the worst parts of both states.  The guy
    is so selfish.  I mean can you beleive it....  He risked our lives
    so he could get home in time to get to Jerry before he was out of the 
    mood.....   JoJ,  You're Scum !!
    
    Big game

    	Big Game, Jo* told me over the phone that you were rooting
    passionately for the Jets that day and told him that you were always
    a closet Jets fan.  Is this true?
    
    				/Don

    Why that scum sucking swine !!!  I was rooting for the Jesters but
    only becaue you won't make it out of the stadium alive if you don't.
    I told JoJ that I would be pretending to root for the happless Jesters
    for that reason and that reason only.  You guys wouldn't beleive the
    way JoJ get dresses up for the games.... It's really a scream !!!
    He wears this silly painters hat the has the Jesters logo on it. It's
    in such tough shape the Bums in central park have better.  Then he has 
    this jesters sweater that pretty nice until you see the liner his wife 
    put in it......  It's a picture of K-K-K-Kenny and The Jet(TM) right
    next to his heart.  To top it off he wears this Jesters Tu-Tu with
    Jests boxer shorts under it.  It really is a sight to see.  The sad
    part is that he's one of the more subdued when it come to dress.  
    
    Big Game

           <<< CAM::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 204.0                   Denver Broncos Question                   5 replies
CRBOSS::ODELL                                        10 lines  16-OCT-1991 13:02
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
                         Denver Bronco Question
    
     Can anyone give me a list of Tight Ends that are on the Broncos ?
    I'm in one of those franchise leagues and the only guy i can find
    for a tight end is Clarence Kay. 
    
    Any help would be greatly appreciated
    
    Steve O'Dell
================================================================================
Note 204.1                   Denver Broncos Question                      1 of 5
BSS::JCOTANCH "Go Air Force - Stun the Irish!"        6 lines  16-OCT-1991 15:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In addition to Kay the Broncos have Sterling Sharpe and Reggie Johnson. 
    Sharpe is actually used more as an H-back, which is the 2nd tight end
    in Denver's offense.  It should also be pointed out that Denver uses
    their tight ends predominantly for blocking and rarely as receivers.
    
    Joe
================================================================================
Note 204.2                   Denver Broncos Question                      2 of 5
ANGLIN::KIRKMAN "What a WONDERFUL honeymoon"          4 lines  16-OCT-1991 18:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sterling Sharp plays for the Packers.  His brother plays for the
    Broncos.  (Don't know first name.)
    
    Commander Scott
================================================================================
Note 204.3                   Denver Broncos Question                      3 of 5
CELTIK::JACOB "Loaded for Bare-Cat"                   8 lines  16-OCT-1991 19:18
                                     -< \ >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    >>Sterling Sharp plays for the Packers.  His brother plays for the
    >>Broncos.  (Don't know first name.)
    
    "Nice N."
    
    JaKe
    
================================================================================
Note 204.4                   Denver Broncos Question                      4 of 5
GRANPA::DFAUST "Go for 1000% more"                    4 lines  16-OCT-1991 19:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    re+ a few back
    
    Sterling's brother is Shannon.
    
================================================================================
Note 204.5                   Denver Broncos Question                      5 of 5
FSOA::JHENDRY "John Hendry, DTN 297-2623"             4 lines  17-OCT-1991 08:19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This should be moved to either the Question and Answer note, or the
    Broncos note.
    
    John

      It's reported that Bobby Humphrey has reported to the Broncos Centre.
    Reeves & co have asked for a 2 week unable to play roster spot for him.
    Something like that anyway.
    
      I think this is great!  He won't be Denver's answer,  but he will
    help,  especailly in games against a good run defense.  He can run
    someone over where Green can't.  Hopefully he is in good shape,  and
    the year isn't blown.
    
    	Tim

    Humphrey has indeed reported and isn't in too bad of shape according to
    Reeves.  Says he got tired of watching football on TV (Probably also
    got tired of not getting those big paychecks).
    
    Another must win for Denver this Sunday against the Chiefs.  If Denver
    loses, they're gonna be playin' catchup in the division the rest of the
    year and will probably be relegated to competing for a wildcard. 
    They've got to win at least their home games against LA and KC to win
    the division.  Plus, KC has yet to lose a game in the division.
    
    Joe 

    Heard on the radio here in Colo Springs this am that Humphreys holdout
    will end up, when all is totalled up, costing him $300,000.
    
    Breaks my freakin heart.
    
    Money grubbing fools!!
    
    JaKe
    

I see Bobby had the Audra Barkley look for his press conference 
yesterday....

      That was a very "tacky" looking outfit.  His haircut was funny,  and
    I don't feel sorry for him if Bowlen still makes him pay the fines.
    Still glad to have him back.  Will he be available to play this
    weekend even though it may be light duty?
    
      Now all Denver needs is a premier pass rusher,  and a good O left
    tackle.
    
      Now for KC,  Denver MUST stop the rush,  and then force Deberg to
    pass, which means a major pass rush.  I think Denver better play
    man-man and have 7-8 men up on the line almost every play.
    
      Look for Atwater and Smith making most of the plays.  If Meck plays
    well,  then Denver will stop the run.
    
      The OL better get the run blocking going or it will be a long day for
    Biff and a good day for Thomas....
    
      KC will not stomp Denvers butt like they did Miami and Buffalo. 
    Denver has a better defense than those teams,  plus its a home game, 
    thankfully!!
    
    	Tim
    
      Out on a limb with a prediction of:
    
       Broncos  24   KC  20

    
    Have the donks ever won an NFL championship?
    Have the donks beaten the DAWGS THIS year?
    

    
     Well,  Booby H. Really looked nice at his press conference lasted(TM)
    night didn't he......  I don't know about these guys,  are the football
    players or fashion models !  Oh well,  it is nice to see him back.  I 
    just hope his return doesn't disrupt the rest of the team.  Also,  I
    think he should have to earn back his starting job,  Gaston has done 
    well for the Donks and should have to be knocked off the top by B.H.
    to lose his starting role.
    
     Now on the the dismal facts about Sundays game against the Chiefs.
    Look for the Donks to get thourghly dominated on the lines.  Mr. Ed
    will be running for his life all day and Atwater and Smith better eat
    their wheaties because the Nigerian Nightmare will be in Denvers
    secondary all day long.  Does this add up to a Donk lose you ask???
    Well,  not necessarily.  The Donks have a long histor of playing tough
    at home......  And K.C. and the Donks always seem to split or the Donks 
    win both....  Look for a low scoring roough and tumble game in the 
    Pile-it-High City this Sunday......  My Prediction
    
    
    			Donks 17
    
    			K.C.  13
    
    		Big Game

    re.349
    
    I guess now it must be "officially" football season.  The Groaner has
    arrived spewing the same toxic sewage he spews EVERY year.
    
    JaKe
    

       Has the groaner seen ANY CLeveland team win an important game in his
    lifetime?
                                        Denny

    
     I don't think so.......  The Donks always seem to bring them back
    to reality when their head get a little swollen....  The Clowns are
    a bunch of good for nothin bums..
    
    Big Game

    I don't think Bobby is home free just yet. He has created a lot
    of animosity out there. If he drops one pass, if he fumbles 1 ball,
    if he doesn't get a 100+ he will feel the wrath of Donkdom and that
    can be awfull painfull.
    
    BoB

    BoB,
    
     I beleive you're right.....  DonkDom will come down hard on
    the Humpster if'n he screws up one little bit.  Let him cost 
    the Donks a game and they'll run him outa town !!
    
    Big Game

    
    Must be a state holiday in Colorado today..   

I just talked to Hoot Gibson to get his personal in-depth analysis...


The Denver death grip is alive and well. The Donks Cause a 4th and inches fumble 
KC recovers about 6 yrds down field. "FIRST DOWN". No from the sidelines Pat 
Blowind is phoning the replay booth. Scanning the archives they find the "Ken 
Stabler Forward" rule This gives the ball and the game to Denver. 
Typical game for the Stripes. 

Jeff 

       Its not a holiday,  just sooooo busy,  that I shouldn't even be in
    here now.  
    
      Well Big game's and my predictions were close.  I think the Denver
    defensive line and linebackers did the best job I have seen from them.
    
      They put a hurt on Deberg all day long.  Even when he didn't get sacked,
    he was getting hit right after the ball left his hand.
    
      The officiating stunk.  The one killer was when a KC reviever trapped
    the ball, and it wasn't reviewed.  Then Shannon Sharpe did the same
    thing and of course it was ruled incomplete....o'well,  the Broncos
    won.
    
    

     <<< Note 36.358 by COMET::JACKSONTA "You forgot the Violin again!!" >>>
    >          -< DEnver has better defense than Buffalo & Miami! >-

    I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone to disagree with you
    on that one.  Both teams are hurtin' for defense this year.  
    
    Marty, the frustration continues! 
    

    re: officiating vs. Cheifs
    
    I was amazed that on the two big plays the officials in the replay
    booth got them right. It happens so little that I was simply amazed.
    The first replay showed that DeBerg was clearly down on one knee before
    he threw the TD pass, so the marked the ball where his knee touched
    rather that awarding KC a TD, with is what the on the field officials
    did.
    
    Later on the Okoye (sp) fumble, they field officials spotted the ball
    real poorly, the replay folks did a better job (but not perfect) and KC
    did not get the fist down (which was the correct call, IMO). The
    funniest part of that play was the measurement after they had the
    "precision" spot using the replay folks. 
    
    I agree that the trap catches were called poorly but as it turned out
    they didn't have an effect on the outcome. Both of the other call would
    have changed the number of points on the board. 
    
    Dennis
    

    
     The Donks played a great defensive game yesterday until the 
    middle of the 4th quarter when Williams started running all 
    over them.  I'll tell ya, it's a good thing for the donk faithful
    that Dennis "The Hammer" Smith knocked him out cold or I think
    there would have been a different outcome.  The Donks "D" but it
    to Deberg..... I'll bet he's still laying in bed today saying 
    "I'm to old for this sh*t
    
    Big Game
    

	Any predictions on the Denver-New England game this week ?
	Anyone else think the Pats will beat the Donks in Foxboro ?

    Actually, the 27-17 Denver prediction in another note sounds about right
    to me....Broncos should take it but they'll have to earn it.
    
    FFL-related question -- is Bobby Humphrey expected to start on Sunday?
    
    
    py

    Re: -1,
    
    I too am interested in finding out if Humphery will be *activated* for
    the Pats game.  As yet, he has not been added to their 'active roster'
    (the Broncos got a two week roster exemption).  It's likely too much to
    ask that he *start*, but I'd be psyched just to see him in the lineup!!
    
    My *starter* is Thurman Thomas, but he's off this week....and I'd
    like to be able to keep Humphrey...but I can't afford zeroes from my RB
    this week!!
    
    Any update as to Humphrey's status would be appreciated.
    
    
    Nelly

    
>    Later on the Okoye (sp) fumble, they field officials spotted the ball
>    real poorly, the replay folks did a better job (but not perfect) and KC
>    did not get the fist down (which was the correct call, IMO). The
>    funniest part of that play was the measurement after they had the
>    "precision" spot using the replay folks. 
 
    That's what killed me.  How can they spot the ball from replay on
    something like a measurement that often comes down to inches?  But even
    so, it was quite obvious that Okoye fumbled before he had the first
    down.
    
    What a pass by Elway.  3rd and 17, KC has the momentum, and it looks
    like Denver will punt and give the Chiefs good field position with
    about 5 minutes left to play.  Remind anyone of last year's 4th and 10
    pass against KC on Monday night?
    
    I was impressed with that Harvey Williams.  He's quick and has nice
    moves.  
    
    Croel is really starting to play well.  He had 2 crucial sacks on
    DeBerg.  If KC would've drove and tied the game and won, Denver
    would've looked back at 2 fumbles by KC that drive.  Both were
    recovered by the Chiefs.
    
    This week's game at NE this week is one many people think the Broncos
    should win, but NE is far from a sure win, especially at home.  Just
    ask Houston, who is possibly the AFC's best team.  This game was
    originally scheduled for 11 am when the schedules came out but has been
    changed to 2pm.
    
    
    Joe

    I forgot to mention Humphrey.  He will probably be activated against
    the Pats but won't start and it's doubtful he will get in the game. 
    Gaston Green should be ready to start after missing the KC game. 
    
    Also, just read that Croel is 3rd in the AFC with 6 sacks.
    
    
    Joe

    I already made my prediction for the Pats/Donks game.....
    
    Donks 27
    
    Pats  17
    
    Big Game

      KC fumbled 4x in this game,  and recovered all of them.  I think that
    is lucky!
    
      Denver should win this game.  The Patsies don't seem to be a cake
    walk,  especially beating the Oilers and Vikes.  Did they beat Indy for
    the 3rd win?
    
      Denver has the better all around team,  but like Hunter sayd, the
    Donks like to always take it to the wire no matter the opponent.
    
        My prediction:
    
    
      Denver 24  Pats  13
    
    
        Tim

>                     -< 2pm mtn time,  are you sure Joe? >-
    
     Positive.

    Gaston Green's thigh is still bothering him and Lewis will likely start
    in his place.  Humphrey should see considerable playing time.
    
    DE Ron Holmes is bothered by a knee and Kenny Walker will start in his
    place.
    
    If Denver's going to win the division they need to do 2 things: win
    7 or 8 games at home and win 3 or 4 on the road.  They're 1-2 on the
    road now with games left at KC and at Seattle among others.  I'll be
    very happy if they can go 4-4 on the road.  If Denver can get this one
    at NE they're in great shape at the midway point of the season at 6-2.
    
    
    Joe 

    Has Humphrey been officialy (sp?) activated yet?
    
    
    Nelly

He will be activated and WILL play Sunday. 


Just not officially.

    Should be an interesting game....  donks by ten !!
    
    
    

 Should be an interesting game....  donks by ten !!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dream on Cacti !!!


It'll be over by halftime. John Henry's highlight will be counting the Pats 1st 
downs on 1 hand. 


Skiing at Keystone's 1000' snow puddle will be more exciting.

Jeff    
    
    

    Lucky SOB's.  What a whiny miserable bunch the Donks are. Bitched and
    moaned to da refs all day. WAAAAAH WAAAAAH. Reeves is a foot-stampin'
    crybaby( as are half the team) GO KC, Raiders, anybody but the "I want
    my Maypo" Donks. 
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Yo, Jeff Riggen - at least get the name right - it's Hendry, not Henry. 
    I'm not a steel driving man, nor a horse nor a fashion designer.
    
    It was an exciting game, too.  I'm glad my physical is Wednesday
    instead of today otherwise I'd be off the blood pressure meter.
    
    John

    
    I watched the game a couple of things stood out to me. The OL for the
    Pats really opened some big holes and the RB realy took advantage. The
    Broncos almost blew it by going into a prevent defense and not putting
    any pressure on the QB during the last drive. Foxboro Stadium is a
    mess. Turf was flying up on every step from the git go. Did they have a
    college or HS game there earlier this weekend, or is the field just a
    piece of crap?
    
    Who was brain dead, McPherson or the QB? I can't believe that Dick
    didn't tell him about a million time during the last timeout to throw
    the ball away during the last play if there wasn't a receiver open. I
    heard someone on the radio (in Philadelphia) say that the Patriots
    should have started a fight or something to draw a flag (and get the
    clock stopped). The worst coaching and stupid play I've seen in a
    while, and I see the Eagles every week.  :*)
    
    Dennis

    
    To:  The Denver Broncos Football Club
         Denver, Colorado
    
    Sirs:
    
         I am pleased to announce that one (1) NFL win has been donated
    in your name on behalf of the New England Patriots Football Club.
    
         We hope you will appreciate the generosity of this gift
    in your quest for a successful season.
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Hugh Millen, PHD (Patriots for High Draft)
    

    Calling this a gift is being too generous.... First the Blocked FG
    from 25 yrds....Did we forget what play they were suppose to be
    blocking for ??? Then Hugh...Please, who do you think you are
    FLUTIE...????  Throw the ball into the back of the end zone....
    DONT THROWN an INTERCEPTINO, DONT GET SACKED and do not attempt
    to run from 20 yrds out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The should be 4-4
    pats, plus the disgracefull loss to the browns...we could be
    looking at a 5-3 instead of a 3-5 very, very, very disapointed...
    
    							M-A-Brooks

      Well FWIW,  The donks played awefull offense.  I don't want to take
    the credit away from the pats DL,  but the offense looked slow and
    looking for a clue.
    
      Elway should have torn the defensive backs up, since NE has(d) the
    worst pass defense in the NFL.
    
      That offsides on Elway was bogus IMO.
    
      I agree that the prevent defense means prevent yourself from winning
    instead of the other team.  When Denver had the Pats in 3 and 14 on the
    last drive,  why in the heck would they only rush 4 guys?  Put pressure
    on a rookie(?) QB,  and he will do the Jay Shroeder act of choking.
    
    
        It was very ugly from a Bronco stand point,  and look for the donks
    to do better in mile hi Dec 1st.
    
       Tim

    
    Do they get any uglier than this?  This one probably rivaled the 6-6
    tie between Oklahoma State and Iowa State.  Rather than a defensive
    battle I prefer to call it a battle of inept offenses.  How about
    Denver's 1st and goal right before half.  Was that maybe their all-time
    worst goal-line blunder?  Had to be.
    
>    Broncos almost blew it by going into a prevent defense and not putting
>    any pressure on the QB during the last drive. 

    Yes.  And doesn't this seem to be a regular statement every Monday
    morning?
    
>    Foxboro Stadium is a mess. Turf was flying up on every step from the 
>    git go. 
    
    The Denver radio announcers said that many of the Patriots have
    complained about the field.  I'm sure visiting teams aren't too happy
    with it either.
    
    I guess there were a couple good plays by Denver.  Elway & Jackson made
    a great on that 3rd and long on the game-winning FG drive.  Denver had
    one real nice drive in the first quarter, but that ended in a FG. 
    Lewis ran real well on that drive.  Russell is turning into a good
    receiver.
    
    Vance returning punts is a joke.  A guy who's afraid to get hit sure as
    hell shouldn't be returning punts.  About the only good thing about him
    is he's pretty dependable at catching and holding onto the ball.  I
    can't believe Reeves cut Clark.  He may be one-dimensional, but he's
    the only player resembling a punt/kick returner they had.
    
    
    Joe

    RE: .380
    Just like the Faiders have been handed 2 bullshit wins by Kemp and
    Everett the past 2 weeks.
    
    Joe

The advantage of having Vance Johnson is he does have good hands. Late in the 
game he made a diving catch for 5 yrds. This play hasn't worked with Russell
yet. 

    This is the first yaer with natural turf in Foxboro.  They had to rush
    to get it in for the international soccer matches.  It will be better
    next year.  Another growing season should help.
    
    The Pats did a good job of covering the Bronco receivers, but a poor
    job of containing the scrambling Elway.  Then again, they couldn't have
    done too badly since they didn't allow a TD to one of the top 10
    offenses in the AFC.
    
    This is the second week in a row that the Pats have had a FG blocked. 
    The special teams have to produce better than that.

    
     Well,  Looked like the donks were just going to march on the
    patsies alll day until they pulled their standard gag inside the five 
    and had to settle for an FG.....  You can tell Revees is callin the 
    friggen plays again...  Go Donks !!!!  First place and holding tight !!
    
    Big Game

    Half season wrap up.
    
    Donks just cant seem to put anyone away. Cinci in the home opener  
    was a blow out and it caught me off gaurd. Since then the Bengals
    have proven that that was not a fluke. Every game there after has
    been a nail biter except for the Oilers game. I'm still confused
    as to just how good or bad these guys are but at 6-2 they have 
    exceeded everybody's expectations. This is a very big IF, but
    IF Denver can beat Pitts, and IF Denver can win the following 2
    games, the AFC West is settled for the season with 5 games remaining.
    Let the rest fight for wild card spots and Denver can fight for 
    homefield advantage throughout. It's unbelievable.
    
    BoB   

    
>    Donks just cant seem to put anyone away. 

    But we know this isn't anything new, unfortunately.
    
>    IF Denver can beat Pitts, and IF Denver can win the following 2
>    games, the AFC West is settled for the season with 5 games remaining.
 
    True, but that would mean winning at KC, which I consider doubtful at
    best.  They should beat Pittburgh; a loss to the Steelers could turn
    this season into a disaster in a hurry.  After that a key home game
    against the Faiders.  A win against LA would do 2 things: put the Faids
    virtually out of the division race at 3 games out, and Denver could
    afford to lose the next 2 on the road (at KC, at Sea), which wouldn't
    surprise me at all.  That 2-game road will be very crucial not only for
    Denver's divison title chances but also if they don't beat both
    Pittsburgh and LA.  But right now a split in the upcoming 2-game road
    stretch will be considered a good accomplishment IMO.
    
>   Let the rest fight for wild card spots and Denver can fight for 
>   homefield advantage throughout. 

    This is looking way ahead, but right now I would say the best Denver
    could hope for is a bye in the first week of the playoffs.  To get
    homefield throughout the playoffs they would need a lot of help.  Houston
    only has 1 loss and has beaten Denver, so in essence they're 2 games
    ahead of Denver.  Denver could possibly tie Buffalo and win a
    tiebreaker but the Bills probably won't lose a heck of a lot more
    playing in the AFC East.  And I expect Denver will at least 2 or 3 more
    games.
    
    Back to the present and this week's game against Pittsburgh.  The
    Steelers are only averaging 25:25 in time of possession and their
    opponenets have converted 47% of 3rd down plays.  They also haven't
    forced a turnover in their last 3 games.
    
    Green is still bothered by a pulled thigh muscle and is doubtful for
    the Steeler game.
    
    
    Joe

I still shiver when I think of Merrill Hoge running for 140+ yrds lasted year
in a total blowout against Denver. 

Pittsburgh is not a bad team and Denver could wimp out in the cold night air 
this week. 

>Pittsburgh is not a bad team and Denver could wimp out in the cold night air 
>this week. 
    
    The hell they aren't a bad team.  Pittsburgh has beaten no one of any
    substantial talent this season.  They aren't impressive, they make too
    many mistakes, and they don't exploit the big talents of the best tight
    end in the league.
    
    Elway should have a big day against a suspect secondary and lack of
    pass rush.
    
    	--dan'l
    

      Quit hexing the Broncos Dan'l;^  You know Denver almost always plays
    to the level of their opponent.
    
    	Tim

    All I'm saying in .388 is at the half way point Denver is in 1st.
    A 3-0 start in the second half locks the AFC West cahmpionship.
    I'm not blowing smoke here. We all know that won't be easy but it 
    is within the relm of possibility. I like their position. I also 
    like the fact that most everybody is still focusing on KC and LA with
    Denver sitting on top quiet like mice. Now is the time for the Broncos
    to wake up. 
    
    BoB

    
    	Don't wake 'em up Bob!  They're doing just fine sleeping.  :*)
    
    	Claybroon

    God, i hate to say this, but Elway looked better than ever, on the run
    
    and throwing the ball... Green drops a pass that would have probaly put
    
    game into OT.. DONKS WIN.. 20-13..
    
    
    DINZ
    

    You know, just once I'd like to relax in the 4th quarter and enjoy an
    easy Bronco victory.  But instead, after having numerous opportunites
    to be ahead by 2 or 3 scores, Denver makes it a close one again and
    continues to give me premature gray hairs.  Not to take anything away 
    from Pittsburgh and O'Donnell mind you.  
    
    I was very pleased with how well Denver came back quickly after being
    down 10-zip.  But after getting 2 TD's on scoring drives, they had to
    settle for FG attempts on their next 3 scoring opportunities, missing
    the last one.  
    
    Lewis ran great, sure making things look good in the backfield now. 
    Elway missed some open open receivers but made a couple good runs and a
    typical Elway play late in the game where he almost got sacked at his
    own 5 and completed a first-down up to around mid-field.  I also liked
    seeing all the pressure on O'Donnell.
    
    On Denver's last drive Jackson was definitely interefered with on a
    long pass from Elway.  That would've put Denver down around the 20 and
    probably would've sewed things up.  
    
    These last 3 games have been nailbiters and could've gone either way,
    but these are the type of games they were losing last year.
    
    
    Joe

    After last nights performance there can be nodoubt that the Donks 
    will be atop the AFC west at seasons end.  They really seem to be
    coming around but still lack the ability to put a team away.  The 
    squeelers played a good game and made it more interesting than I
    like it to be.  Elway seems to be playing well and baring injury
    will carry the donks to the AFC championship game.  The Donks need
    to continue to improve to be on a plane that will allow them to 
    make another Superbowl appearance.  I have to say,  I am suprised to 
    see them at 7-2 after last years debachle of a season.  The donks
    are a great team with a great QB......   A little more maturity in
    both backfields and they will be a dynasty !!!  ;^)
    
    Big Game
    
    P.S.  O'Donnel is going to be a good QB for the Squeelers !!!  The guy
    has poise and plays the leadership role well especially for his age.
    Look for the Squeelers to dominate the central nexted(tm) year !!
    

       I didn't like seeing the donks let the squeelers back in!  Elway did
    miss some key passes.
    
       I also think the offense is sputtering because Reeves is calling
    the majority of plays.  Elway & co better have it together for the
    faids next week,  or it will be a long game.
    
      Joe,  expect another 4th qtr "prevent" and let the other team in the
    game, but hang on enough to win type of game against the faids.  I was
    hoping to go,  but its the 1st of the month "no money" blues.
    
    
    	Tim 

    It's been close to 2 years since Denver has been invoveled in 
    anything resembeling a big game. This week's Raiders at Broncos
    will tell the tale. 
    
    BoB

    
     It's already in the bag!!!  I'm going to the game and
    the Donks always win when I'm there.  Can't recall ever
    attending a game in which they lost !!
    
    Big Game (Whos Going to The Big Game)
    
    Donks 31
    Faids 24

    
    	No way they'll score that many points Cacti.  As usual,
    	it'll be 16-13 or so for whoever wins.
    
    	Claybroon

    Hey ClayWade....
    
     The Donks are going to break it open soon.....  This game
    is as good as any for that to happen !! I stick by my prediction
    
    Big Game

      Jack,   did you forget about the time 6 of us went to that Monday
    nite game against the faids????
    
      Does a 24-0 half time lead for the Broncos strike any bad memmories? 
    Some guy in the faids o-backfield named smith decided he would learn
    how to run.
    
      Remember the 35 min trip between the springs and denver and how we
    went about getting tickets......As buzzed as I got that nite,  I don't
    know how I remmebered;^
    
    
    
       Don't hex the donks;^*()*^$@~!
    
    
    	Tim...who might be going,  but will have to get tix the same
    way....scallpers(sp?).....
    
    

    
     OH CRAP !!!    Thats right...  I had forgot all about that
    one.....  Must be selective Memory !!   Oh well,  looks like
    I may not be able to make the game this weekend anyhow.....
    Something came up and I'm still trying to get out of it.
    
    Big Game

    It had been years since I witnessed a loss at home too untill last 
    year's Raiders game. It wasn't that cold but it was really windy
    and that drove 1/2 the fans out with about 5 min left. Donks down
    by 10 but wait, they drive to close within 3. Donks hold the Faids
    and drive for the winning or tieing score. Faids' deathgrip stops
    Donks so Treadwell scoots out for a medium range FG. The snap, the
    kick, it's on the way, it's NO GOOD!  Seemed to be the pattern they
    were in last season but right now their on a 3 game win streak and 
    a 6 game win streak at home. 
    
    BoB 

    There you have it, the men have been separated from the boys.
    Art Shell still owns Elway and Co., and Reeves still doesn't 
    have a clue.....:-) God I love Monday morning noting after the
    Raiders beat the Donks (even in New England). The only bad part
    about it is that now I gotta listen to the Donk fans snivel about
    how Uncle Al paid off the refs, and all the other lame excuses.
    With a Raider win next week, and some help from the Chiefs, the
    Raiders should be tied for first.
    
    Carlos
    

Art Shell has taught the Denver Death grip to his offensive line. Denver let 
this one get away. The running game was great on both sides of the ball Craig, 
Lewis, Allen and Green forced both defenses to team tackle. 

Jeff 

    
    Typical Bronco-Faid game that could've gone either way in the end. 
    Amazing that these games are almost always so close and low-scoring. 
    The most glaring stats for Denver yesterday: terrible special teams and
    3 turnovers (to no turnovers for LA).  Those turnovers and woeful
    special teams play wiped out a good rushing performance by Denver. 
    It's not too often you will see a team rush for 200 yards and lose. 
    The defense did a good job of keeping Denver in the game in the 3rd
    quarter.  Denver turned the ball over on 2 straight posessions, once
    inside their own 5-yard line, but the Faids only ended up with 3 points
    off the 2 turnovers.  The Faiders defense is obviously keeping them in
    playoff contention this year.  What is the Faid offense averaing,
    around 15 points per game?
    
    Although the offense may have missed a scoring opportunity or two in
    the first half, their special teams was undoubtedly the biggest factor
    in this devastating loss.  Witness these mistakes:
    
    - A punt that was nearly blocked in the 2nd quarter.  The LA player ended 
    up running into Horan and gave Denver a first down but it should've
    been blocked.
    
    - A holding on a punt on the 3rd quarter that, after the penalty, ended
    up giving the Faiders 20 more yards of field position.  LA scored the
    go-ahead TD on that drive.
    
    - The blocked extra point.
    
    - The blocked field goal at the end, which wouldn't have counted anyway
    because Kay was flagged for holding and the game would've ended right
    then and there.
    
    Plus the fact that Gossett had a marvelous day punting for LA.
    
    If Denver is to win the division, I say they need a split in these next
    2 road games, something I don't think they will do.  They will almost
    definitely lose at KC next week.  At this point I hope they can at
    least get the first wild-card slot and play 1 game at home.  Obtaining
    the best or second-best record in the AFC and a first-round bye in the
    playoffs is just about out of reach right now.  This loss killed 'em. 
    
>    With a Raider win next week, and some help from the Chiefs, the
>    Raiders should be tied for first.
    
    First of all, the Faiders will still be a game behind KC after they
    beat Denver next week.  And that's if they beat America's team, the
    Seahawks.  Secondly, if you were smart you would be pulling for Denver
    because the Faids already have the upper hand over them with the sweep
    and the Broncos have to play 4 of their last 6 on the road.
    
    
    Joe 

    
     AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    
     Did you see all those 50 dollar bills Uncle Al was handing out. !!
    This was another good Bronco/Faider Game...  The Donks let it get away
    from `em....  Hard to beleive that Dan is 0-5 against Art.  Oh well,
    The donks could have wrapped it up with this win and a win against
    K.C nexted(tm) week but as is their usual fashion they will have
    to drag it out till the end.  Both teams played well and in all 
    honesty I thik the bad calls evened out in the end with the exception
    of that damn so called fumble at the goal line....  Good Job Donks...
    The faids are once again a BIG problem of the DONKS....
    
    Give me my crow Raw.....  I like that way !!
    
    Big Game

      I was there and give the game ball to the faider special teams.  I
    wouldn't go so far to say the boys and men are seperated.  The game
    was obviously even with the exception of all the blocked kicks.
    
      Biff did not have a good day throwing.  He had open recievers that he
    missed.   Turnovers were critical,  especially that fumble in Denvers
    own end of the field.
    
      All in all,  it was nothing less than was expected between these 2
    teams.
    
      Denver needs to win next week @KC if they want to win the division. 
    If they lose (which is likely), then wild card looks more like reality.
    
    	Tim

    Tim, I don't think Denver necessarily has to win at KC next week but
    they need a win at Seattle and then at San Diego because those 2 are
    division games.  11-5 might take the divison and is probably the best
    Denver can hope for at this point.  And they can go 11-5 by winning
    their remaining 2 home games and splitting their 4 road games.  The
    Faiders will definitely lose at least 2 more games.  I also believe KC
    has a tough road ahead but the Chiefs would probably win a tiebreaker
    over Denver because they would probably end up with a better division
    record than Denver (assuming KC beats Denver next week).  The best
    (realistically) Denver will do in the division is 5-3, while the Chiefs
    have only lost 1 division game so far.  But KC still has to play at LA
    and at Seattle (I think).  
    
    Hey Big Game, what happened to your perfect record of Denver never
    losing when you're there?  Did you make it up to the game.  We were
    counting on you and you let us down.
    
    
    Joe

    DAMN !!!   I didn't make it up.....  Had some other stuff come
    up and just couldn't justify the game in light of the situation.
    At any rate....  Tim pointed out that he and I attended a game 
    at Mile High which the Donks lost.....  Some how my selective
    memory let me over look that sad event.  Oh well,  So the donks get 
    swept by art and the Faids....  I still think that the Donks will
    win the division and surely finish the season with a better record
    than the Faids.....  That all I need to take som $$$ for Uncle Hootsie.
    Can't wait to collect on that one....  Hootsie really hate to pay
    off on Donk Bets   
    
    
    Go Donks !!
    
    
    Big Game
    

    Denver as a possible wild card?
    
    I thought someone in this here conf. guaranteed Cleveland a wildcard
    What gives? 8^)
    
    MikeL
    

     How dare you mention the name of the lowly Browns Spots in this 
    topic....  To even have the `Spots name in here is a slam to the
    mighty Broncos....   ;^)   The Spots are going no where but home
    for X-Mas this year.  The Donks on the other hand are going to win 
    AFC west or at worst take home a wildcard spot for the `offs.....
    Don't really matter...  I honestly don't think they have the team
    to win beyond the first round anyhow unless they pick up the offense
    and get more presure on the QB's on defense....  The donks will
    have a good year....  unlike the `Spots !
    
    Big Game

    It's good to see that the Raiders, unlike some of their fans, showed
    some class after the game.  Art Shell said, "This just brings Denver
    back to us.  Instead of being two games behind, we're just one."  Howie
    Long said, "We're lucky."  Bob Golic said, "There's no domination
    involved.  We beat them...but it's a battle every time we play them."
    
    
    Joe

      There was no domination!  The faids did just enough to get by which
    the Broncos have done in some games.  This time it caught up to them
    (denver).
    
      If you look at the stats,  you would wonder how the faids were in the
    game,  but as typical of the faids, "just win baby" no matter what it
    looks like.   Turnovers decided this game,  and Perryman should get a
    splinter;^
    
    
      Joe,  you are right about next weeks game,  but if the Broncos beat
    KC and end up the year tied with KC,  then I believe Denver has the
    advantage of beating them 2x.
    
      I think 11-5 is possible,  but with the offense studdaring (sp?)
    10-6 is most likely.
    
    	TTim

 Well I'm a day late but not a dollar short on laughs..

 hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa

 last week they're winning the division, this week it's just a wildcard...
 perch and twirl perch and twirl my my...

 Did the mighty Donks really loose to WRONG_WAY Schroeder again?

 ;^)

 and where was that phatom hold on the Raiders' TD? did ya get a number
 on that guy ref? As usual in Pile it High when the situation is critical
 the donks get the flags...

 gotta make ya wonder...

 thanks BG for all the copliments about the Steelers if I was you I'd hop
 of this sinking ship now and join a real team....

 mike

       re-1  If you want BG to jump ship to a real team,  I would think
    he'd choose the 'skins, which he can't stand.  What other team is
    dominating most everyone in the league?
    
      What is a real schedule?  Dont tell me the squeelers have one....They
    play one good team 2x a year and 2 bad teams 2x a year.  Besides,  the
    broncos had the squeelers and the rest of the AFC central on their
    schedule,  so this must mean the afc central aren't "real" teams!!
    
     
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Actually nevermind all this,  'cause I forgot the source,  and this
    source knows how to start the spew and get the denver fans riled.....
    
    
     Go pay for a playoff birth hosehead;^
    
    	Tim

 Tim how can you say that I so deeply hurt...



NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've always bellied up to the CC when it's been my turn...

this year I just haven't had the time to note like previous years as I've
been trying to save DEC all by myself...

many smiles

    Well Mike C., it looks like you were way off on your wishful thinking
    that Denver would go 1-15.  7 wins already with 6 games to go, looks
    like they will surpass your expecatations by a mile.  Here's your
    prediction in case you forgot:
    
    
           <<< CAM::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SPORTS_91.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid >-
================================================================================
Note 175.10               NFL '91 Magazine Predictions                  10 of 33
MAXWEL::CHILDS "sign said, Stay Away Fool.."         27 lines  18-JUL-1991 13:54
              -< I got as much chance of being right as they do, >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 1991 Insider Noter Sports Rag

 NFC East		NFC Central 		NFC West
----------		-----------		---------
Giants  13-3		Vikings 10-6		San Fran 12-4
Philly  10-6		Bears   10-6		Saints	  9-7
Cowboys  9-7		Packers  9-7		Falcons   6-10
Redskins  8-8		Tampa    8-8            Rams      5-11
Cards    4-12           Lions    7-9

AFC East		AFC Central		AFC West
--------		-----------		--------
Bills 13-3		Steelers 10-6		Chiefs 11-5
Colts 11-5		Oilers   10-6		Raiders 10-6
Dolphins 9-7	        Bengals   8-8           Chargers 8-8
Pats   5-11             Browns    3-13          Seahawks 6-10
Jets   2-14					Denver   1-15


 wildcards Philly over the Bears, Colts over the Oilers.

 NFC Championship Giants over Frisco

 AFC Championship Steelers over the Bills

 Giants over the Steelers in the Bowl.....
    

    So, the Donks are now 0 for the last 6 meetings with the Raiders.  Is
    that right?
    
    lEe

>    So, the Donks are now 0 for the last 6 meetings with the Raiders.  Is
>    that right?
   
    No.  The Faiders have won the last 5 meetings.
    
    
    Joe 
 

 yeah Joe. it's like freakin incredible isn't it.  I mean I'm hardly ever
 wrong about this things. Especially cause I use my head and not my heart
 on these things. 

 ;^)

 

    Childs.....  You're a Butthead !!!   ;^)
    
     I can't beleive you didn't see that big time hold by the right 
    guard on the Faider TD....  It was huge !!  I got a few more more
    for ya too.  The so called fumble on the three yard line was a 
    bunch of crap....  The man was down way before the ball came out.
    Funny thing is I saw Uncle Al handing out 50's to the zebras just
    before this happened.  Then ther were the 2 big pass int calls, or 
    should I say non-calls that would have helped the Donks convert 
    important 3rd downs. IMO,  the Zebras seemed like they came from
    LA LA land insetead of Denver !  Why don't you wake up Mikey? 
    
    Big Game

      From the looks of your predictions Mike,   you might be on track for
    1-2 teams.  The rest look like you are off.   The sqeelers going 10-6?
    Its still possible,  but unlikely.  Maybe 6-10 would be more like
    it;^^)

    5-0, huh?  Thanks, Joe.  I musta heard it after the game, instead of
    before.
    
    Hey, what's a few days matter, anyway?  It's Wed, and that's almost
    Friday, ain't it?  :*)
    
    lEe
    

    re-1   I kinda miss them too (ugh).   There were some faider faithfuls
    in here last year and at the start of this season,  but now that the
    faids are 3rd in the west,  the faithfuls vanish,  kinda like Hal and
    Gronowski.   Carlos is an occasional exception;^)
    
       Tim

    GRACK! UGH! Groan! That was some kind of weird hard hitting 
    game. 'Bonehaid' awards were well deserved and deserving 
    candidates were plentifull but when it comes down to a 1 point
    game it's easy to point the finger. I give an honorary Bonhaid
    to uncle Al for his lip synch rendition of the 'F' word on
    national TV. It was classic. TV showed a lot of pushing and 
    shoving. Spectators stated there was a lot of extraneous 
    activity also. One Raider was spoted with his helmet twisted 
    over his haid like his nose was poking out of the ear hole.
    He riped that brainbucket off and they said he was some kind
    of PO'd. Oh well, boys will be boys.
    
    BoB 

      No doubt Bob.  There was pushing after almost every play.  This guy I
    was sitting next to hadn't been to a donk faids game before,  and I
    told him this was normal for these 2 teams when head to head.
    
      I was waiting for either Kay or Widell to get tossed,  'cause they
    seemed to be in about half of the shoving matches,  and I think it was
    Kay that actually pushed a ref out of the way so he could inflict
    damage to his hand by hitting a faider in the helmet.  I thought for
    sure that ref was going to point him in the direction of the showers, 
    but the ref just jumped right back into the action.  I think some of
    the refs like getting involved.
    
    	Tim

 the one that should have got tossed was Atwater. The kid is a great hitter
 but he's also cheap. More than once he speared somebody late. I know on one
 particular instance Craig wanted to rip into...

 as for where was when and where BG, I was splittin time between this game
 and the Giants game. Even as a Jints' fan I'd have to rate this game as 
 the better affair sunday...

 mike

    
     Mike...  I can't beleive you are calling Atwater a Cheep shot.  The
    guy is a great hitter, as you said...  But to call him a cheep shot
    cause he came in late on one play is beyond me.  I have been watching
    him play since he joind the Donks and have never seen him pull
    a really bad cheep shot....  Everyone goes a bit overboard at time 
    but only a few a cronic about it and Atwater ain't one of `em
    
    Big Game

      Mikie just wishes the sqeelers had all pro safeties like denver does. 
    Denver has 2 of the best safeties in the league, IMO!
    
    	Tim

    Agreed !!   YOu know them damn Squeelers don't have no talent !!
    
    Big Game

    The best defensive backfield performer in the Steelers/Broncos game
    will wear a Steelers uniform - Cornerback Rod Woodson.  And you cain
    take that to the bank (if you cain find one that's solvent...)
    
    JD

    There is probably a fine line between chippy vs cheap vs intimidation.
    The Raiders have always prided themselves on the intimidation factor
    that they believe they hold over other teams. Denver has never 
    bought into their line of thinking. The intensity of this rivalry
    had appeared to have been on the decline, that is, untill
    last sunday. Maybe we get to see these two again this season.
    That could be a good one. 
    
    BoB 

    
    >>The best defensive backfield performer in the Steelers/Broncos game
    >>will wear a Steelers uniform - Cornerback Rod Woodson.  And you cain
      ^^^^^^^^^
    
    Uh, Er, HEY JD!!!!!
    
    Wore, that should be "wore".
    
    Da game was played a week and a half ago.
    
    JaKe
    

      I was just refering to safeties.   Yes Woodson is very good,  but he
    ain't no saftey.
    
      From what I have seen/heard,  Philly has the most players that hit
    late or are refered to as cheap shots.
    
      I watched that Vike/Bear game the other night,  and both Browner and
    Felix Wright were constantly in late.  Browner got caught 1 time,  but
    I don't remember Wright getting flagged,  and he should have.
    
    
    	Tim

 I didn't mean to say Atwater was the only cheapshot artist in the league
 just one of them that's all. Atwater is a vary good safety agains the run
 but I've seen him get burnt a few times in pass defense. Most do from time
 to time. Woodson is indeed a safety and better than either of the Donko pair.
 
 BG your aggressivness is my cheapshot obviously...

 mike

    
     Childs:   What ???  Are you on the same planet.....  
    what is "BG your aggressivness is my cheepshot obviously" supposed
    to mean...  I've gotten out of the habit of reading Giberish since
    DiNzMoRe laid off noting....
    
     Atwater and Woodson are both good safeties.....  Woodson has been 
    in and out of trouble all year.  It remains to be seen weather or not
    he can keep it together and remain on top.  On the other hand.... 
    Atwater is an all american boy who keeps his nose clean and plays
    hardnosed football....  He is not cheepshot or even one of the 
    cheepshots in the league.....
    
    Big Game

 Well I see the Denver Refs have now become a road crew. Elway was over the
 line and the sham with the clock was a disgrace but hey hey atleast you guys
 were kind enough to ship your refs to us in the meadowlands where they bailed
 out the Jints....

 and I still say Atwater is cheap...

 FWIW though I did bet denver $$$$$$  ;^) and turned my local saloon owner
 onto that as a better pick than the Jets. who shouldn't have escape NE alive.

 ;^)

 mike

    Yeah Elway received a gift.  He was at least 2 yards past the marker.
    
    Mike

    
    	No doubt about it.  Elway was past the line.  Are the refs
    	trying to make a statement?  I saw similar things in the
    	Giants-Cowboys and Browns-Oilers games (plays that should
    	have been reversed but weren't).
    
    	Claybone

       Denver has a great defense,  but lack in coaching when it comes to
    pressure.  Why in the ____ did they go to prevent at the end of the 1st
    half and the end of the game?   They let KC march down the field almost
    3x (3rd time game ended) and gets 10 points????????    They should have
    stuck with blitzing and better zone!!!  GET A CLUE REEVES AND
    PHILLIPS!!!
    
      I couldn't believe Wymon.   He was actually in the middle of 2 ints. 
    He got the 1st and then defended a play which in turn had Brooks catch
    the bounce of Wymons hands.  Wymon also kinda saved the game when he
    tackled the reciever in bounds on what ended up being the last play of
    the game!   I'm in shock!!!
    
      The offensive line is still a problem on pass blocking.  Yes KC has
    one of the best pass pressure D's,  but Elway was sacked 6x.   That was
    almost critcal since 1 sack took them out of FG range and then the
    center ended up muffing the snap for the punt and thus giving KC position
    in Denver territory on KC's last TD.
    
    Elway is Gawd!  Most every team would love to have him!
    
    
      And I never saw Atwater on any cheap or late hits!   Actually I think
    Atwater hasn't been as present as in the 1st 5 games.  Yes he had an
    INT yesterday,  but DeBerg overthru his reciever by 5yrds.  The only
    thing that could be causing this is maybe the DL is doing better and
    Atwater and Smith for that matter do not have to come up and be the
    ones stopping the running plays like they used to.
    
       Denver just needs to win in Seattle and its cruise mode from there.
    It will be tough.  I thought they would lose to KC and proved me wrong, 
    and maybe they can win in the girly-mon dome,  but unlikely.....
    
       The KC fans at the stadium throwing bear and all sorts of stuff on
    the Broncos as they left with the win suprised me and also showed no
    class on thier behalf!!!!!!!!
    
    
    	Tim

> Well I see the Denver Refs have now become a road crew. Elway was over the
> line and the sham with the clock was a disgrace but hey hey atleast you guys
> were kind enough to ship your refs to us in the meadowlands where they bailed
> out the Jints....

    Yes, Elway was over the line, but only if that marker we were looking
    was the official line of scrimmage and not just a visual aid.  That may
    have been a factor in the review.  From what I've heard, if any part of
    a player's body is over the line, he is considered over the line of
    scrimmage (i.e., not where the ball leaves his hand or where his feet
    are).  But like I said, if that was officially the line of scrimmage,
    he was over.  But bottom line is:  Broncos win!  (HAHAHAHA)
    
>       The offensive line is still a problem on pass blocking.  Yes KC has
>    one of the best pass pressure D's,  but Elway was sacked 6x.   That was
>    almost critcal since 1 sack took them out of FG range and then the
>    center ended up muffing the snap for the punt and thus giving KC position
>    in Denver territory on KC's last TD.
    
    And on a couple of Elway's sacks he was still beckpeddaling when he was
    sacked.  That's bad.  But on the other hand, their run-blocking is very
    good this year.  That sack that took them out of field goal range
    really ticked me off.  The only worse that could've happened in that
    situation is a turnover.  They should've just run the ball there or
    have Elway roll out and have a run/throw option.  And when Horan fell
    on the bad snap I though that was the beginning of the end.
    
>        Denver just needs to win in Seattle and its cruise mode from there.
>    It will be tough.  I thought they would lose to KC and proved me wrong, 
>    and maybe they can win in the girly-mon dome,  but unlikely.....
    
    I also thought Denver would lose at KC but I'm glad I was wrong!  A win
    at Seattle next would just about wrap up the divison, but a loss
    won't be all that devastating.  I expect Seattle to win next week.
    As for defense, I agree again.  More blitzing, especially from Croel. 
    I can't believe they made Vlasic look like Montana on his first drive
    in the game by giving him all that time to throw.  You get a new QB in
    the game, you harass him - I thought that was common sense.
    
>       The KC fans at the stadium throwing bear and all sorts of stuff on
>    the Broncos as they left with the win suprised me and also showed no
>    class on thier behalf!!!!!!!!
    
    Yea, they were pretty bad, but the Broncos were just lovin' it.  I
    thought that was funny.  Many of them were giving the fans the chop.  
    But I though the only classless fans in the country were in Boulder???
    :^) :^)
 
    
    Joe
    

/Don,

Perhaps they were blowup bears....

    
     No question Elway was over the line....  I don't care if it was a
    visual aid on the sideline...  I saw where they snapped the ball 
    from and it was outside the 29....  Johnny was well beyond that before
    he started his wind up.  I like the way he answered the question posed
    after the game...  He says something like Well,  I thought I was behind
    the line or I wouldn't have thrown the ball...  You could see him just
    wanting to bust out laughing...  He knows he got away with one. all
    and all I think the Donks played a good game.....  Running the ball
    well, coming up with big plays when they need to and not putting the
    ball on the carpet.  The thing the Donks need to carry them into the
    playoffs with a chance at winning anything is get the offense in gear.
    The D is playing well....  The O on the other hand is only scoring
    when they have to.  We need to learn to ice a game ala the Bills and 
    Skins..
    
    
    Go Donks....
    
    Donks 	21
    
    Seachickens 17
    
    
    Big Game

       I thought youze guys knew I cain't spel.....Actually,  I have this
    shirt that is Bear Beer.  It has this bear standing towards a snow
    drift showing that he just rents the suds.  Bought it over in Manitou
    Springs.  I would wear it to work,  but it might offend prospective
    customers that are always touring thru the plant;^
    
      Yes Elway was over the line!   On KC's last possesion,  the KC guy
    was tackled in bounds on one of the last plays,  but yet the ref signals
    out-o-bounds and stops the clock.  I think thats why the refs had the
    10 second run off on the play after,  since I didn't see a KC player hurt
    like in the spots/soilers game.
    
      When KC got thier last touchdown,  it was obvious and right in front
    of the ref that the KC reciever pushed off the denver DB in order to
    get open and catch the TD.
    
    I must say,  the officiating sucked in all 3 games I watched yesterday!!
    
    I couldn't watch all of the night game,  9 hours of football is a bit
    much,  plus the wife was tired of it......Can't always win;^)
    
    		
                Tim

    Alot of bad calls yesterday.  Despite what Childs says, that 10 seconds
    wasn't bogus.  Not to mention the one Tim just talked about (I think it
    was the previous play) where the receiver was clearly down in bounds
    right in front of the Denver bench.  Didn't catch that pushoff by the
    KC receiver on the TD though.  
    
    That Dallas game was really bad in the first half.  The Giants' drive
    where they scored a TD and eventually went up 13-3 was a joke.  First
    there was that mystery pass interference call, then the holding call
    down at the goal line which would've been 4th down.  Madden couldn't
    get over that one either.
    
    And how about that interception by Cleveland with only a couple minutes
    left in last night's game.  Took them a long time to make a call, and
    then they called him out of bounds.  Did they end up reversing that one
    and giving him an interception?  I flipped back to a movie before they
    decided.
    
    
    Joe

     I say lynch them "Damn Zebras".....   Hasn't been a good game
    called in weeks.....  Seriously,  I don't remember a recent season
    with so many bad calls/non-calls by the friggen Zebras.......
    These guys should be on the pay for performance plan like we're
    supposed to be here at DEC....  A bad call costs you some $$$
    when nexted(tm) years salary planning goes on....  Oh yea,  I
    forgot they're in ther Damn union !!!  No wonder their calls
    stink,  they don't have to worry about losing their jobs !
    
    Big Game
    
    DONKS RULE !!!
    
    

These guys are part time employees with "better" full time jobs. I know John
Hendry has waxed poetic on why the NFL doesn't have full time referees but
if the recent trend continues I see no alternative then to get full time 
employees....If the WFL continues these guys could do WFL games in the spring
and summer and then do NFL games in the fall/ winter. Mebbe that would be
enough work for a full time officiating crew....

Right now they stink and are getting worse...I've always been an instant replay
advocate but it's losing me this year with the inept way they're using it. Too 
many times I've seen calls reviewed on meaningless plays (and wait, wait, wait 
for the guy) and other times seen crucial calls not get a glance.....

I still think that they could make better use of it if it was an appeal by the
coach instead of a guy in a booth. If the coach looses the reversal they lose
a timeout, if they have no more timeouts they lose 15 yards or so....

Make it strategy instead of insipidness....

Although I watched very little football yesterday...

Metz

    Just remember one thing - with the "better" full-time jobs a lot of
    these guys have, the NFL would either have to pay them a hell of a lot
    more to keep many of them, or risk losing them and have worse
    officials.  Bad as many of you may think they are, they are the best
    football officials there are and if the NFL has to bring in a crop of
    new guys, things will be worse for a while.  That's a more scary
    thought for me than what we have now.
    
    Even with working WLAF games in the spring, at the current pay scale,
    they'd lose a lot of guys.  There are half as many WLAF games every
    week so they'd only need half as many officials to work the WLAF games
    anyway.  Some NFL officials did work the WLAF games - it was mostly the
    newer guys although Stan Kemp, Bernie Kukar and Larry Nemmers - veteran
    officials who got promoted to referee this year - were referees in the
    WLAF.  I'll also still maintain that with the amount of work these guys
    put in during the off-season and between games, there really isn't that
    much more work they can do during the season than what they are doing
    now.  I also believe they will get stale with doing absolutely nothing
    but film work and rules study without games to work more than once a
    week.  None of this is a "paid political announcement" by the NFL
    either. 
    
    Part of the problem is the changeover from Art McNally to Jerry Seeman
    as Director of Officiating.  With any new boss, there are going to be
    changes in doing things and some of the guys who've been around for a
    long time probably aren't feeling quite as secure as they used to.  I
    think that's being reflected in the officiating.
    
    I also agree with dumping Replay.
    
    John

    
     I like replay....  I think it adds to the game when used correctly.
    I think Metz hit it on the head.....  Make it a strategy thing.  I
    see no reason to let a bad call go by the way side when we have the
    means to reverse it when need be.  Dumping replay does exactly that.
    Keep replay...  but make some needed adjustments.  Metz's ideas seem
    like a good place to start as far as I'm concerned !
    
    Big Game
    

    
    	I don't know Metz.  I saw at least 3 calls that should have
    	been overturned by replay.  They weren't.  And you want to
    	assess them a timeout or something?  No way.
    
    	I don't think giving them "X" number of replay reviews per
    	half would work.  You can't say the refs will blow ONLY
    	that many (especially when the Clemson refs are working
    	the Donk games right Mike Childs!).
    
    	Claybone

    OK. The cover is blown. Denver is in 1st and everybody sees them now.
    If I was a Bronco, I'd of gotten up yesterday morning and kicked
    myself once again for loosing 2 weeks ago in a coulda-shoulda-woulda.
    
    I knew the pass play would be the center of argument but that's not
    what blew the game for KC. Pulling DeBerg and having Mark Vlassic 
    attempt to lead you in a winning drive iced it for Denver.
    
    So now it's Seattle and that doesn't look too bad but who knows?
    Does anyone know why Clarence Kay remains on this team?
    24 points sunday was the most scored on KC this season.
    
    BoB 

         I like replay if its used correctly,  but now that there seems to
    be so many problems,  then maybe they should throw it out!  I thought
    the replay guys have 2 minutes to review it or the play stands.  If
    this is true,  when will it be enforced?
    
      I'm not sure of the playoff scenarios yet since there are 5 games
    left.  I do think that at least 2 AFC west teams will meet in the
    playoffs,  but who?  If Denver is in it,  then I hope its in Denver.  I
    wouldn't mind going to another game this year.
    
    	Tim

Another thing you gotta do is get rid of the replay  official who's an ex-nfl
official. Hire some dude who's got two eyes and an attitude that he doesn't
care if he pisses off the old farts on the field by overruling their calls.

:-)

only 1/2 kidding,

Metz

    
    	Elway's shoulder is hurting.  He's questionable for Sunday.
    	He took a cortisone shot Monday and didn't throw yesterday.
    	What slim hopes of a Super Bowl Denver has will vanish if
    	he isn't 100%.
    
    	Bobby Humphrey decided to skip practice/meetings yesterday.
    	He's got a *personal* problem which added with his severe
    	lack of PT has him unhappy.  Reeves is giving him some time
    	off to mull over his future.
    
    	Clayboone

      Humphrey is back at practice.  He will sit out this weekend.  This
    boy better figure out what he is doing, or his future could be in
    question.
    
      Elway will start sunday.  Look for Shawn Moore to be activated just
    in case.  I wouldn't mind seeing him play instead of Kubiak, if Elway
    goes out for whatever reason.
    
      The denver defensive line will have to control this game in order for
    the Broncos to win IMO.  If Krieg isn't pressured,  then he will pick
    apart the def backs.  He has always had a good success against Denver.
    
    
        Denver by 2.......Point spread is 3, I thin Bobbalou
    
    	Tim

    
    NEWFLASH!!!!!!!
    
    Donks CRUSH Seachickens.....  WIN 2nd game in Dome this year...
    
    BIG GAME

    Elway and Humphrey are both a couple of crybaby-mama's boys, send 
    Humphrey over to the Raiders so that they can make a man outta him! 
    And send Elway out to pasture.....he's washed up.
    
    Look for Krieg to set new records this weekend, and give Elway a
    quarterbacking lesson.....
    
    Carlitos  :-)

    Carlitos....
    
     What are you on dude ????  ELway a cry baby...  The man hasn't
    missed a start since 88 or 89.  He's one tough hombre...  I mean
    who else (QB's) runs the ball into the endzone like a RB, sholder 
    down and everything.  As far as being washed up goes You had better
    open you eyes and look a bit closer to home.  Anyone who has Wrong
    Way Jay for a QB should be real careful about critizing other team
    QB's.  The day Dave "It's been years since we've had a winning record"
    Kreig gives Elway a QB lesson will be the day Wrong Way Jay gets the
    Faiders past the first round of the playoffs.  Look for the Donk 
    Defense to dominate this game and Elway & Co. to have their finest
    offensive outing this year aganist the mighty Seachickens
    
    
    Big Game

    Yeah...but...Wrong Way did get them past the first round just last year 
    against the mighty Bengals. And another thing, wasn't biff originally
    called Wrong Way Elway..(amongst other fine nicknames like Mr. Ed.)
    .....how did Schroeder inherit this?
    
    Curly-Toes!

    
     I knew that would be misunderstood....  I mean
    they've never had a win past the first round with 
    wrong way.
    
    Big Game
    
    p.s.  If the Shoe fits  (ie: wrong way)

      I don't recall Elway having the "wrong way" nickname.  He has been
    called Mr. Ed,  Biff, canon arm and of course Gawd......
    
      I see that its getting close to the end of the season,  and the faids
    might get into the playoffs,  so now Carlos wants to rile everyone up, 
    and it just might work.
    
      Maybe it has something to do with the "what others think of sports
    topic" where someone said that the faids/donks bashing just hasn't been
    the same since hootsie and parrot left.  Carlos tries,  but he seems to
    be the only faider faithful left.
    
    	Tim

    
     Carlos has put forth a valiant effort but falls far short of
    filling the shoes of the Great Uncle Hootsie...  That guy and his
    parrot were so one sided and caught up in the faider BS that they
    couldn't see the forest for the trees...  With a little practice
    Carlos may reach the afore mentioned status but it will take 
    great effort and commitment.  Good luck on your journey to becoming
    a legend in your own mind, Carlos....
    
    Big Game

    
    	I'll never forget Hoot asking: "Is Officer Perry going to
    	play?"  I was giggling all day.  The Parrot was overrated
    	IMO.  He just rode on Hoot's coattails hence the nickname.
    
    	Claybone
    
    	ps  Carlos does a fine job representing the Raider scum! :^)

    Thanks guys....I think....
    
    I missed most of the Hoot & Parrot show. I was just coming in when they 
    were going out, too bad, I coulda learned alot from those guys (on how 
    to rile you Donks I mean) and it sure would be nice to have an ally or
    two, ....in all fairness 'though Mr. Childs knows how to get under your
    skins, and he cracks me up every once in a while, thanks Mikey, and
    keep up the good work.
    
    Carlitos

>    but he seems to
>    be the only faider faithful left.
   
    See, they are getting this conference cleaned up.  
    
    :^) :^)
    
    
    Joe 
 

    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH    Raider SCUM !!!!

    The Parrott was way overrated. I remember one night at the Dub where he
    was acting like such a jerk that even Hoot was annoyed.

The defense is getting better and the offense is getting worse.  Elway had 
hardly any time to throw yesterday and was sacked 5 times as the offense
scored a whopping 3 points.  They had a first and goal at the 6 but had to 
settle for a field goal.  They had 2 late drives into Seattle territory but
couldn't convert on 4th down.  And now Mark Jackson, the 2nd best receiver on 
the team, could be out for the rest of the season.  Last week in KC the
offense got 3 turnovers to work with but only managed 17 points.  

Despite a pitiful first half, Denver had numerous chances to win a game I 
expected them to lose.  Now they probably can't lose more than 1 game the
rest of the season if they are to win the division.  


Joe 

      I thought both defenses played ok,  but the teams seemed to be
    "disoriented".  Elway should have been yanked.  He had 2 ints and 2
    fumbles in the 1st half!!   He was obviously in pain and had a hard
    time throwing the ball.   Kubiak couldn't of hurt the team anymore than
    Biff.
    
      Mark Jackson had the game winner go through his hands and off his
    gut.  I'm not sure if he would of held onto the ball after that monster
    hit!
    
      Denver had a prime chance yesterday to be tied with Houston for 2nd
    best record in AFC,  but they choked.  Actually all the division
    leaders choked yesterday,  and now the FAids have the AFC west lead
    since they owned Denver in tie breakers.  Denver has lost 3 divison
    games.
    
      I don't see Denver getting past the 1st or 2nd round of playoffs with
    the offense lacking as they are!!!!
    
    
    		Tim

    
>      Mark Jackson had the game winner go through his hands and off his
>    gut.  I'm not sure if he would of held onto the ball after that monster
>    hit!
    
 my favorite highlight from the game....

 ;^)

    
     The donks just couldn't pull of the magic yesterday.  I have never
    seen the blow so many chances to win a game late in the 4th like they
    did.  Elways was hurting but that is not what cost them the game.  
    Their running game has been what made them successful all season and 
    it was not there yesterday.  The Donks needed that win and couldn't
    pull it out.  Look for a real battle for the title in the west this
    year.  with 3 left the donks need some help from the Faids to be
    assured another title.  All around another tipical AFC West battle
    in the King Dome...
    
    
    Go Donks
    
    Big Game
    
    
    P.S.  Thanks a bunch to the Clowns for beating K.C.  Although the way
    K.C. played they could have beaten themselves W/O much help.

    Re: Robinson's hit on Jackson
    
    We felt the tremors down here!

      If Jackson is out,  then what for?  Cracked ribs or sumthin like
    that?
    
      Mike,  do you like seeing people get hurt?  I didn't even think you
    were that bad.
    
    	Tj

    Great hit n the endzone on Mark Jackson !

    Jackson suffered a dislocated right wrist.
    
    
    Joe

    So he's basically gonna be walking around with a limp wrist like the
    rest of the team huh? 
    
    

    
     Here we go !!!
    
     Jackson was not injured from the hit.  The heat the Elway put on the
    ball is what caused his injury.  The ball was slightly deflected by
    the defender and hit Jackson in the wrist causing it to bend backwards
    and become slightly dislocated.  He will play nexted(tm) week, count on
    it.  I've always liked Jacksom because he is the toughest receiver the
    Donks have.  Still,  I beleive the ball should have been caught.  It
    was only slightly knocked off track by the deflection. 
    
     The issue I have is that this game should have never come down to 
    Jackson making this catch.  The offense was totaly worthless yesterday.
    with the field position that the Donks had through out most of the
    first half they should have routed the Seachickens.  
    
     I beleive that another reason the Donks lost is because they didn't
    make the correct adjustments at half time to counter act the pass
    rush from Seattle.  They should have begun to set up the run with more
    1st down passes...  Just some real short (3 to 5 yrds) shots to the 
    backs and T.E.'s would have done the trick.  This would have opened
    up the running game by spreading the defense.  Reeves it very bad at
    making adjustments to his game plan when required in the middle of a
    game.  He also has the motivational talent of a hangman.
    
     In short,  we can blame this Donk loss on the total lack of offense
    which was caused by an injured Elway and some poor play calling.  Like
    I said earlier,  with the field position the Donks had in the 1st half,
    this should'nt have even been close.
    
     The Donks better pull their respective you no whats out of the dirt
    nexted(tm) week against the Pats or the same thing will happen in 
    Mile High that happend in the Kingdome this week.
    
    Big Game

 Of course I don't like to see people hurt Tim but I do love to see Donk
 receivers drop GAME WINNING TOUCHDOWNS....he dropped the ball before he
 was hit in case you missed it.....

 mike

>    I've always liked Jacksom because he is the toughest receiver the
>    Donks have.  Still,  I beleive the ball should have been caught.  It
>    was only slightly knocked off track by the deflection. 
    
    Jackson is definitely tougher than Vance or Nattiel, but I would say
    Young is their toughest receiver and also their most dependable go-to
    guy.  As for the ball being caught, it may have hit him right in the
    stomach but when someone waves a hand in your face at the last minute
    that makes it a very difficult catch, even if he didn't tip it.
    
>     The issue I have is that this game should have never come down to 
>    Jackson making this catch.  The offense was totaly worthless yesterday.
>    with the field position that the Donks had through out most of the
>    first half they should have routed the Seachickens.  
    
    Yea, that's the tough part.  The defense is not only playing well enough to
    win, but they're playing well enough to where Denver would be beating
    people by 3 TD's every week with any type of decent offensive
    production.  Hell, outside of the Houston disaster (which was credited
    mostly to field position, turnovers, and special teams blunders) the
    most poinst Denver is 20 against KC last week.
    
>     I beleive that another reason the Donks lost is because they didn't
>    make the correct adjustments at half time to counter act the pass
>    rush from Seattle.  

    As much as Denver has been blitzed in recent weeks, you would think
    they could either come up with (1)some way to slow down the pass rush 
    or (2) some way to burn the blitz.  Hint: the screen pass.  Oops, I
    forgot.  A successful screen pass doesn't exist in Denver's playbook.
    
>    They should have begun to set up the run with more
>    1st down passes...  Just some real short (3 to 5 yrds) shots to the 
>    backs and T.E.'s would have done the trick.  
    
    This is the way I've felt for the past couple of seasons.  That is so
    much of what the Niners use - a 2 or 3-step drop by the QB, and he
    knows exactly where he's going to throw the ball before the snap. 
    Those passes are almost impossible to defend.
    
    
    Joe

    
     Joe,
    
     You're right about Young....  I guess I was caught up in the 
    old Three Amigo crap.  Young is tougher than Jackson and makes
    the big play when needed.  Young reminds me alot of Steve Watson.
    Tough, Slow and wide open.
    
     I watched the replay 3 or 4 times and swear that the ball caused 
    the injury to Jackson.  It looked as though the ball bounced off of
    his hand bending it backwards and then hit him in the gut. The "HIT"
    seemed to put Jackson down on his back/side not on the wrist,  I won't
    swear to this in court though.  I am sure that the local rag will have
    all the details today...
    
     I don't understand the lack of the S.F. style short passing game in
    Denver especially with the blitz being a big factor in their offensive
    woes.  The Niners useed that style very successfully and I think the 
    Donks could do the same.
    
    Big Game

    
>     I don't understand the lack of the S.F. style short passing game in
>    Denver especially with the blitz being a big factor in their offensive
>    woes.  The Niners useed that style very successfully and I think the 
>    Donks could do the same.
    
 It's simple Big Game just look at the respective personel and coaches...
 Rice and Taylor are big receivers who can catch the ball on the quick
 slants in traffic because they are big enough to muscle out of the pops
 off the line etc...it also helps that Joe has a bit more touch than Biff...

 mike

    Ya hoid it hear first:
    Pats  17
    Donks 14
    
    Fryar too tough to handle. Revenge will be sweet
    
    MikeL
    

    
    	Well, this'll be a first, but I agree with ya Mikey C.  BBJ
    	would drill holes in his receivers in a short passing game.
    
    	Elway's shoulder isn't getting any better.  The only
    	prescription for the tendonitis is rest.  Look for him to
    	take a day off soon (ie a game).  He also has a bone spur.
    
    	Claybone

    
      Things are looking tough for the Donks down the road.  Elway
    is beat up and like Clay said he ain't getting any better.  The have
    to play the Pats who are coming off of a big win and always play the
    Donks tough.  Mark Jackson could be out for nexted(tm) weeks game
    and if he does play he'll surely not be 100%.  The offense is struggling 
    badly and shows no sign of recovery (kinda like the economy).  This is 
    the time for a real gut check for Mr.Ed and the Donks.  Look for a 
    close one in Mile High this weekend.
    
    Donks 21
    
    Pats  17
    
     The short passing game is a must for Denver if they are to get the 
    offense rolling again.  Elway has shown in the past (Yea thats right
    Mikey...) that he can play this kind of football.  After all,  that
    was their bread and butter when their running game was non-existent.
    I don't beleive they have to entirely depend on the S.F. style offense,
    only use it to break open the running game.  Mr.Ed is at his best when 
    the Donks can run the ball.  He gains complete control of the field,
    the defnese can not possibly cover all of the options he presents 
    when the running game is on.
    
    
    Big Game

       Young is toughest reciever.  With Jackson going down,  this means
    the vance will get more playing time,  and thats good.  Like his
    attitude or not,  vance can catch the ball,  and isn't affraid to go
    over the middle,  he's just chicken on punt returns!
    
    
      The play calling is REeves' fault.  He is calling most of the plays
    again,  and when its 1st down,  and you run up the middle,  well
    eventually that gets REAL predictable!!!!   I agree with the 3-5 yard
    dump offs,  and with Reeves being a DAllas boy,  you think he would use
    alot of that,  like maybe to Perryman or Greene.
    
    
       Look for the Pats to be fired up this week,  after all they did bump
    off the AFC leader last week,  and would love to do it again to a
    division leader.  Heck Dick probably has his guys thinking they still
    have playoff possibilities;^)
    
    
       Denvers defense will have to get the turnovers for the offense so
    the offense can score the usual 16 points.
    
       Denver   16
    
       Pats     10
    
    
    	Tim

    Well,  This is my last day till Monday....  Just wanted to 
    have a great thanksgiving everyone...  I know I will,  I'll be skiing
    all weekend in Crested Butte....
    
    Big Game

    Hey Big game is goin' BUTTE SKIING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    REK
    
    In the rockies, where men are men and women are men.. And it's kinda
    hard to tell them apart with all that ski stuff on.. :-}

    I thought the Rockies were where men are men and sheep are scared.
    
    John

    
     Not true REK...  Lots of fine "Ski Bunnies"  out on them there
    ski slopes.....
    
    Ninj,  You got the Rockies confused with Wyoming...
    the line goes "Wyoming,  where men are men and sheep azre scared"
    
    Big Game

Have a good time in Crested Butte, Big Game. We just had our major areas out here
open up in time for the thanksgiving ski holiday. Unfortunately I'll be going
back east for Bird-day but I'll get my skiing in over the rest of the year.

Anybody ever been to Tahoe? Bruce on Sissy Sports? My little brother just 
moved there to become a ski bum for the season and I'd like to visit him this
spring for some turns. When would be a good time to go?


Metz
 

    >>Look for the Pats to be fired up this week, after all they did bump
    >>off the AFC leader last week, and would love to do it again to a
    divisi>>on leader.
    
    Yeah.....but...everybody knows that the Raiders are the division leader
    Tim, where you been? :-)
    
    Carlos   PS You didn't really think I was gonna let you get away with
                that did you?
     

      re-1  I was hoping you didn't catch that.
    
    
      Jack,  Is it still free at Crusted Butt?  They had a deal down there
    where tickets are free so all you pay for is lodging.  I wanted to go, 
    but I'm still lacking the lodging & partying funds...booo
    
      Its suppose to snow on T-day.....Have fun!!  And.......
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
       Break a leg;^)     Couldn't resist.....
    
    	Tim

    
    I think the free lift tickets are till the 14th/15th.  But don't quote me
    on it.  
    
    Pat

    Tim, -1
    Watch out fer them Texan wimmin is right. Last year I took a trip
    to Breck,Copper, etc. and at the airport(Denver) saw a bevy of Western
    bedecked goddesses wif deep drawls. Come to find out they was a
    goin' to Vail to meet their husbands who all were in the oil bidness.
    A thief coulda retired with their jewelry (dadgum Texan rich felines).
    And of course they had great fun wif ma Boston accent ( don't y'all
    ski little hills in Bahston). Felt like doin the Texas Two-Step raght
    in der faces!
    
    MikeL
    Whose gonna try ta ski at Sunday River or Killington this weekend
    

    
     Carlos...  You pretty quick big guy...  Can't slip nothin past 
    you can we ??    ;^)
    
     Tim,  The Skiing is free until the 15 of December.  Crusty Butt 
    has about a 34 inch base last I heard with more on the way come
    Thursday.  Just for future reference,  We got a condo for 3 for
    $80.00 a night,  not a bad deal...  The place has the standards,
    fire place, nice kitchen, hot tub, heated pool and a Rec area
    with pool tables and a bar.  I you're looking to go let me know and 
    I'll  give you the name and number to get in touch with those 
    Yah Hoos in Crested Butte.  
    
     Big Game  (Who Can't wait to bust out his new K2 KVC Kevlar Skis
                but not on this trip... not enough snow)
    

      re-2    Instead of the 2 step,  maybe you should of told them to show
    you the Texas couch dance;^)  I haven't seen it,  but I was told its
    rather um interesting.......
    
    	Tim

    Texas couch dance?  I woulda gotten slapped upside the haid by these
    wahoos as well as my wife who was a standin' right next to me.
    
    MikeL
    

      Oh,  I didn't know you had the little lady with ya.....But ya never
    know about the other gals,  they may have said somethin like,  sure
    where is there a couch and closed door;^)....
    
      Tim

    Isn't an ex-donk assistant coach now coaching for the Pats? I seem to
    remember the announcers mentioning something about that during their
    first game earlier this season. He said something about this coach
    knowing Elways (and the rest of the teams) strenghths and weaknesses,
    and how best to attack them. Anyhow the first game was a close one that
    the Donks lucked out on, because of an in-experienced QB making a fatal
    mistake. I had a chance to go see it in person, but I'm glad I didn't.
    Look for more of the same this weekend. Will Biff be playing?
    

    Joe Collier, Stan Jones, Myrel Moore and Charlie West, who made up the
    bulk of the Denver Defensive coaching staff through the 1988 season,
    make up the bulk of the New England Defensive coaching staff this
    season.
    
    John

      I'm sure Elway will play.  Ole' Danny wouldn't want it any other way.
    
    	Tj

    
     Well the donks offense seems to be begining to round the bend
    and get back on track.  The defense is playing the best I've seen 
    in some time.  I realize that the Pats are far from the best team
    in the league but they did just hammer on Luckaolo lasted(tm)
    week.  Denver didi it part to stay in the hunt for the AFC west
    title.  It's just to bad the the Faiders lucked out and slipped by
    the Chargers.  Can't wait til nexted week.  The Donks are gonna crush
    the Clowns and the Faiders will be soundly trounced by the Bills.
    What more could a Donk fan ask for besides an SB win...  ;^)
    
    
    
    Big Game
    
    Donks    27
    
    `Spots   10
    
    

    Somebody please wake Big Shame up, he's dreaming again! Hey Big Game,
    Bernie's gonna be your new hero after this weekend. Him or Schroeder.
    :-)
    
    

    
     In your dreams....  The Donks will stomp the Clowns into the dirt 
    and if Luckaolo does'nt beat the Happless Faiders by at least 10
    pts I'll take a trip to the Crow Cafe on their behalf.  Like I said in
    the Donks topic...  Look for the Donks to finish out the season 3-0
    and the Faiders to go 1-3.  Donks have the West all but in hand.
    And with an Eagle win tonight have a shot at first round home field
    advantage.
    
    Go Donks
    
    
    Big Game

    
    Elway didn't know if he was gonna play until Sunday morning but he sure
    looked sharp.  Russell's getting better every week.  Defense also looked
    good although Croel and Powers were out.  Denver had some opportunities
    for some more points but hurt themselves with turnovers or penalties. 
    Anyway, they looked pretty good and actually won easily and I got to
    relax in the 4th quarter for once.  Heck, I even turned over to the
    NO-SF game at the end - what a wild finish that was.  
    
>    Can't wait til nexted week.  The Donks are gonna crush
>    the Clowns and the Faiders will be soundly trounced by the Bills.
     
    I'm definitely excited to see Luckalo whip the Faids and put them in
    their place.  I don't care for the Bills but I'll certainly root for 
    'em against Iraq.  I don't know about the Denver-Cleveland game though.  
    I still think Denver will lose one of their 2 remaining road games and 
    this could be it.  Cleveland still has an outside shot at a wildcard too, 
    so that should give them more incentive.
    
    
    Joe

    That should read Faiders topic....

       Denvers offense looked better 'cause Elway called most of the plays
    this game.  He called ALL of the plays in the 1st 2 series.  I liked
    seeing something other than run up the middle on 1st down.
    
      I don't think Denver will stomp the spots,  but they have a very good
    chance at winning.  I agree with Joe,  cleveland has some incentive and
    might be prepared.
    
      Denver will win as long as Kosar is presured.   Elway (if he plays)
    always finds a way to get the points that are needed,  against the
    spots anyway.
    
      Denvers defense is the best that I've seen in awhile! 
    I loved that CB blitz by Tyrone Braxton.   That is something that
    I haven't seen Denver do much of.  They usually send LBs. 
    Thats probably why the Pats offense didn't even look for him.  Keep it
    up Wade.
    
    
         Tim

    
    
    
     D O N K S    # 1    SLAM CLOWNS ON MY B-DAY  !!!  
    
    
    What a great present that will be !!
    
    
    Big Game (Who's 29th will be complete with a Donk POUNDING of the
             `Spots)

    So the Mighty Donks Swept the Patriots... Big Deal, remeber that first
    win came on a very dump QB error.  I wont call it good luck by the
    donks, more like bad luck for the NE pats.  The Pats suc(# last year
    due to not have the right personal, whats the donks excuse.  The pats
    will be in the Playoff hunt next year and may even make it.  See you
    nexted time...
    								mab

    
  >  Denver will win as long as Kosar is presured.   Elway (if he plays)
  >  always finds a way to get the points that are needed,  against the
  >  spots anyway.
    
    Elway always put up enough points against Marty..   But he hasn't managed 
    in the last 2 meetings, now, has he?  
    
    /Jeff
    

    
     The first game the Donks lost this decade to the firggin Clowns
    was the Battery game where the entir face of the game was turned 
    by the totaly out of control fans in cleveland.  When a team is driving
    for a score and the fans are allowed to cause such disruption in 
    the game that the Zebras have to switch ends of the field you can
    hardly say the 11 men on the field stoped the drive...  Maybe the 
    12th man in the stands being a complete drunken jerk.
    
     The second game the Donks lost was last year, in mile high.  They
    just plain lost this game with a bit-o help from the zebras as well
    with a BS pass int call and some well timed holding calls as well.
    I would hardly say that domination and to say that the fact that 
    Marty left is the reason the Donks have lost the last 2 in just plain
    wishful thinking.  The have dominated the Clowns over their entire
    history of playing,  not just in the Marty era...  The DOMINATION
    WILL CONTINUE !!!
    
    
    Go Donks
    
    
    Big Game

    FWIW, the "switch end-zones" game was in '89, which only makes the
    Browns 1-0 against Denver this decade.  Actually, the '89 AFC
    Championship game was played in January of 1990 so the series is
    actually even at 1-1 for the 90's.  Oh, wait a minute, Brown fans don't
    consider the AFC Championship game to be a big game, so I guess that
    one doesn't count.  
    
    
    Joe   

 Hey Jack, with all this talk about refs it occurs to me you'd make a great
 TarHeel fan....

 and all thisd huff and puff about Biff is just that. The bum has beaten
 one winning team this year and hasn't thrown for over 200 yards in his
 last 6 outings...and this supposed to be GAWD in a football uniform?
 hashahahaaaa

 mike 

       Biff threw for over 200 yards against the pats last Sunday. 
    Also, I don't remember Marty losing to the Broncos in the 89-90 AFC
    champeenship game.  He was in KC already,  if my "great" memory serves
    me right.   Elway was not calling many plays the last 6 weeks,  thus
    the always predictable reeves was stopped.
    
    
      Mikey,  you darn well know you would love to have elway on the
    squeelers squad.   He is better than booby and o'ducko......
    
    
       Tim
    
    
       

 no Tim, I seriously wouldn't. His Td to Inty ratio stinks bigtime. Sure
 he can run and sure he can throw the thing 80 yards in the air but he
 cannot read defense and has no touch whatsoever. I'd rahter have Hugh
 Millen.....

 He's a headcase, he's overpaid and he's a whinner...No thanks you keep
 him....

    
     Childs...  If I thought you had a clue about what the Zebras 
    are supposed to do I might get offended by your tarheel remark.
    The Donks got ripped by the Zebras and the drunken `Spots fans
    last time in Clevescum.  It won't happen again !!
    
    Big Game

    
    Gawd bless, big game is still bitchin' about a meaningless game played
    2 1/2 years ago..  
    
    What is Marty's lifetime record vs. the Donks as a head coach?  Does he
    even have a win against them?  
    
    I rest my case.  
    
    /Jeff

    Marty's only win against Denver came last year in KC.
    
    Joe

     What,  I can't talk about one of the most outragous things to 
    happen durring a game of football...  You clowns fan are still
    raving about the victory !!  Give it a rest !!  
    
    Big Game
    
    The Donks will even Belichick's record come Sunday and end the Lowly
    Clowns season at the same time !
    
    

    
    Small_Brain, noone's raving about that victory, we're only using it to 
    offset your insistance that the Donks own the Browns..   When if fact
    the Browns have won 2 of the last 3.  Make it 3 of 4 after sunday.  
    
    Can't wait for you to eat some serious crow come Monday Morning.
    
    /Jeff

    
     And what about you...  It will make my week to see you Bellie up to
    the Crow bar for a nice cold serving of the Black Bird.  The Clowns
    can't win this game...  they just don't have the talent to pullit off.
    
    ;^)
    
    Big Game

    
    
    Fine, fine.. but you will be hard pressed to find any outrageous
    predictions I've made regarding the game, Unlike your assertions that
    the Browns don't even belong in the same league as the "mighty" donks.  
    
    If I'm forced to visit the CC I'll be sampling, I won't be gorging.  
    
    /Jeff

    This game worries me. I'm fairly certain the Broncos will win
    it. My concern is having Denver go out onto the field in front
    of thousands of fans who I believe genuinely hate them. This
    game has a very real potential for fan violence. Bronco fans 
    know that they have not hesitated to show that hand before. 
    It's a shame. It really is just a damn game.
    
    BoB

    
     /Jeff,
    
     I know... You're right.  If the donks lose I willhave much more 
    of the Black Bird to eat that you.  This is the one time of the year 
    that I can't help myself and things just fly off  the ends of my
    fingers before I can stop them.  Ask Groaner and Hal about that.
    Both have made at leats as outragous comments about this game as I
    have. At any rate,  This is big fun for me and if I have to swallow
    some crow as the price then so be it.  I really don't think that 
    the Donks will lose this, no matter what happens.  I do hope how
    even that if the fans in Clevescum get out of hand that the management
    and zebras have the balls to do something about it for once.  It really
    sucks what they are allowed to get away with.  If the `Spots management
    had any cajones at al the would make sure that those in violation of 
    good fansmanship be ejected never to return.  the sad thing is that
    they encourge this kind of crap instead of taking a stand like Da
    Bears !!
    
    
    Big GAme
    

      Since I won't be here tommorrow, (Gunnison business tommorrow and
    Crested Butte on Saturday) I will get my 2 pennies in now!
    
      The Browns are goin down,  Bernie to have int,  Atwater and Smith
    to put a hurt on Hoard and Mack,  and Elway to throw 2 TDs plus run for
    1.
    
      And if that don't happen,  who cares, 'cause the Broncos win by 3 or
    more.
    
      I hope that the fans won't be "involved"!!  If so,  fine the Clevland
    org for not taking proper security measures.
                                       
       Party at Big games house,  he's buyin' the brew ;^)))))))
    
    	Tim

    
    I kinda remember watching a game in Denver where the opposition got 
    pelted by 20K snowballs while attempting a fieldgoal and at other
    points in the game..   or at least I think I remember...  
    
    /Jeff

    Yep ... Ray Wersching of the NIners missed a FG because he nearly got
    plunked by a well-timed snowball in the first half.
    
    The Niners lost by 2, if memory serves me right.

    I hear mama's-boy is getting estrogen shots in his shoulder. What a
    wimp, the Donks should put him out to pasture. :-) This is probably his
    last mediocre year, than Moore will replace him in the spring. Maybe
    he'll take notes this weekend from a QB who knows how to play the game.
    

      That is correct.  The niners lost,  and all these niner fans started
    crying about "if he would of made it the 9rs would have won".  In the
    same breath,  the broncos (reeves) had the usual 1st and goal on the 2
    and tried 4x to punch it in,  and of course couldn't.  The donks were
    ahead at that time, thus the reason of 4 tries at a TD.  If the niners
    would have made that FG,  then reeves would not have gone for the TD, 
    when he was "almost" assured of a FG.   So the outcome would have been
    no different IMO.
    
       Tim

    Yes it was 1 (as in one) snowball, not thousands. In fact since 
    that event stringent security measures have been in place. In 
    fact I was at last sunday's game and a fan was immediatelly dismissed
    for throwing a snowball. He obviously didn't understand the 
    the rules that the fans must live by there. Cleveland's stadium
    seems to operate by a different standard.
    
    BoB 

     No Tim...  That fan lost his season tickets....  you won't
    see a bs org like Clevescum do that though....  they thinks 
    it goodness..
    
    Big Game
    
    Elway has a much better record than Bernice will ever have that Cajones
    to dream about...  Screw the stats...  Who's been to the Bowl.!!!
    

    	Gee, I wish every football team had fans as polite and mannerly
    as those Bronco fans.
    
    				/Don

    /Don nobody said they are polite and mannerly. In fact it can get
    real testy at times. The thing is, there has to be an understood 
    level of what's acceptable behavior and what's not. A large crowd 
    emotionally charged and an element of that crowd intoxicated 
    is a dangerous mix. Denver has figured a way to control quickly
    and effectively. You screw up and you pay the price. Nobody is 
    a faceless member of the masses that can act without being held
    accountable for that act. I was hoping one of the Browns group
    would take me to task or assure us that my opinion of Cleveland
    stadium antics is one of needless paranoia. That hasn't happened.
    Hopefully the Broncos will have them heading for the exits early.
    That will make all of this a moot point. 
    
    BoB  

       All in all this was a good win (not to ugly) for the Broncos.  They
    clinch a wild card and also 1st place in the west since the faiders
    CHOKED!!!!
    
      Elway had a decent day.  He "basically" gave Clevland their only
    points.  He overthrew some recievers,  and alot of recivers dropped
    balls.  Biff came right back after the INT and drove the Broncos to a
    TD.
    
      The offensive stat that sticks in my mind is only 2 TDs and 6 FGs in
    the 1st QTR.   This says what  most of us has seen,  which is the
    Bronco offense doesn't get "motivated" until the 2nd QTR.
    
      The offense is showing up for the 2nd half this year!   That is a +.
    
      The defense is GREAT!!
    
      Tim

>       All in all this was a good win (not to ugly) for the Broncos.  They
>    clinch a wild card and also 1st place in the west since the faiders
>    CHOKED!!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Denver was 10-4 and LA 9-5.
It's possible they could still end up tied, in which case LA has the
tie breakers, or LA could still win it.

At least that's the impression I had....


'Saw

    They have clinched a wild card but have not clinched the division
    title.  
    
    John

 Saw you missed Tim's pause in there. He meant that it put them in first
 for this week not the season. Although effectively they should be a lock
 for first with their wimpy schedule while the Raiders play tough opponents.

 If anyone choked yesterday it was Norwood not the Raiders. Raiders' mistake
 was going into prevent offense too early...

 mike

    
     YES !!  YES !!  YES !!
    
     Just what the doctor ordered for my B-day...  The Donks look like a 
    team inspired in the 2nd half. (I missed the first due to a birthday
    brunch planned W/O my knowledge)  All in all a good game for the Donks.
    the defense in taking control of ball games early.  The offense in not
    what it could be but they are getting the Job done.  A 10 pt victory
    over the `Spots is no small feat considering the level to which this
    rivalry has risen over the past few years.  The special teams need to
    work on coverage though...  things looked a bit thin at times and the 
    Clowns did have some good returns on them.  Treadwell's confidence
    should have been boosted after yesterdays outing.  He no trouble and
    nailed the coffin shut with the 4th quarter field goal.  The Donks
    are heading into the playoffs playing better than they have all year.
    I am looking forward to a good showing in post season.  Maybe not a
    Superbowl but a good showing none the less.
    
     I hope the Faiders never get rid of Wrong Way Jay...  I was sitting at 
    the folks house watching the game with my Dad (He hates the Donks, 
    calls `em the luckiest team he's ever seen.  (he's from Ohio)) and I 
    tell him the Jay will throw an INT and cost the Faiders the game.
    Sure enough,  right after Luckaolo ties it up old Wrong Way Jay comes
    out a throws a big time INT.  Yes old sure foot from the Bills missed
    the kick but it could have cost them.  It goes into OT and I say,
    whatch,  He'll do it again and he does.  `Bout this time the old boy is
    coming out of his chair,  it was too funny.  At any rate,  as long
    as Jay is playing for the Faiders they will never win a championship.
    The guy reminds me of Danny White in the 2 minutes.  And as for
    Luckaolo...  I wouldn't be surprised to see Norwood gone before the
    S.B.....  If not,  he could cost them big !!
    
    
    Donks ROOOOLLLLEEEEE !!!!
    
    `Spots Sip In Public
    
    Al Davis is kicking himself for ever letting Beureline go to Dallas
    
    Big  Game
    
    
    P.s.  I'll be pulling for the `Spots this week.  They'll probably drop
          the game against the Soilers on purpose just to get back at the
          Donks.

> If anyone choked yesterday it was Norwood not the Raiders. 
    
    Childs, don't kid yourself.  When you have a 2-touchdown lead with 5
    minutes to play at home and lose, that's a choke job, plain and simple.
    
    You gotta love the way the Denver D is playing now.  They've only given
    up more than 20 points all season and that was the disaster at Houston.     
    They're getting great pressure on the QB, and Croel and Powers are out
    right now.  It's a good thing that they were constantly pressuring
    Bernie yesterday or else he would've gotten the Browns into the end
    zone a little more.  The Browns should've kept using Mack yesterday -
    he was running right over the Bronco defense.  The one TD the Browns
    did score came after an interception at the Denver 37.
    
    The offense was decent yesterday, but they came through when they
    needed to in the 4th quarter.  The most impressive thing about
    yesterday is that Denver didn't run the ball well but still had a
    couple nice drives and managed over 35 minutes of possession time.
    
    Now if Denver can win their last 2 and get some help from Cleveland or
    the Giants (Houston's last 2 opponents) they will have a bye the first
    weekend of the playoffs.  That would mean alot.  Denver should wrap up
    the division next week by beating Phonyix at home while the Faids go to
    Nawlins and get whupped.
    
    GO SAINTS!!!!!
    GO BROWNS!!!!!
    
    
    Joe

      Yes I did say denver is in 1st place in the west.  Is that not where
    they stand today?   Sure they could choke and lose the division,  but
    not likely,  and they are in the playoffs,  this is all I stated.  I
    never said that they won the division.
    
      Denver does have a light schedule,  but thats what happens when you
    finish towards the bottom of the conference.  Don't worry Mike,  the
    sqeelers will get the cream puff schedule next year,  and the jints for
    that matter.
    
      Elway calling plays =  better play mix!!
    
      Denvers running game has been lacking the last 2 weeks!  The spots
    defense did a good job of shutting the run down.   I feel Humphrey may
    have helped,  but who knows.....
    
      Denver better not take this next game lightly,  'cause look at what
    the cards did to the 'skins yesterday.  They had a 14-0 lead just to
    lose it 20-14,  but they did scare the 'skins none the less.
    
    
    	Tim

    
     Tim,  
    
     I agree on both points.
    
     When Elway is calling plays the team seems to have a completely
    different look.  Notice the short passes, The use of Sewell as 
    a wide out.  Sweeps when the middle has been closed up.  John 
    is begining to show what he's really made of. 
    
     The Donks running game has been vurtually non-existent the past 3
    weeks.  If they plan to take another shot at the Superbowl they had
    better get that fixed.  Maybe Bobby would help.  He should be getting
    close to being able to play and should be given a chance if Greene 
    can't make things happen.
    
    Donks Will Win West !!
    
    Big Game
    
     

    jack,
    
    do you work in the clean room there?
    
    dinz
    

    
     Used to long ago...  Work as a systems guy in Materials Acq. 
    now.  Got a real office and everything... (about 5 years now)
    Whats the point !!
    
    BG

    I tried to call ya..
    

    
    Hock,
    
    	I know Dave.  However, I work out here in da woods at the
    	FCC site so I don't see too many folks.....jest squirrels
    	and deer and such.  
    
    Claybone

    Claywad..
    
     Is that what happened to you ???  I was wondering why I hadn't seen
    your UGLY face around here in a while..  Well, it's a good place for
    ya.  We can't have customers seeing you after that nasty accident you
    had with Big Bertha, her twin sister and the Blender...
    
     Kawk...  I know neiter of these so called friends of yours.  Maybe I'll
    look `em up to see if the exsist or are only a figment of a sick mind
    in need of a labotomy(sp?)
    
    Big Game
    
    

    Big Game, I was out there almost 7 years ago and did a tour of the
    Clean Room on 1st shift.  You musta been there.  I was the guy who was
    going crazy, cause I couldn't breath and I had an itch I couldn't
    scratch because of them darned suits.  :*)
    
    Worked a project with a guy named John Pritchard, he was a tech on the
    repair line.  Nice guy.  Wonder if he's still around there?  Also, I
    used to work with Russ Hamel, he's in Quality.
    
    Lee

Hey, be nice to Claybone.

He's one of the Brotherhood, so if ya mess wif him, ya mess wif me.....



But I'd love to hear more about that blender deal.....8^)


'Saw

      Russ is still around.  He's a manager now doin' sumthin on the RA9x
    or small form factors....
    
     I have heard of the other guy,  but don't know him by name and face.
    
     All of the clean rooms are busier (sp?) than ever,  at least until the
    RA9x moves to Germany.  To my knowledge,  the RA8x, R31, R35, and 2.5"
    disk drives will be the only ones left.  I have heard about a 1.8" disk
    drive coming in June.  I guess its the size of a pack of ciggs.
    
      I haven't met Claybone yet,  but I would like to hear about this
    blender incident.....Sounds "interesting"
    
    	Tim

    
     LeE,
    
     Russ is still around...  I don't beleive that John work at Dec
    any longer.  At any rate,  you must have toured the manufacturing
    cleanroom to be hanging out with those guys.  At the time (7 years ago)
    I was working in the engineering cleanroom doing media qualifications
    for new products.  In that type of environment you don't get many
    visitors if you know what I mean,  Pretty hush hush.
    
     As for Big Bertha, her twin and the blender,  I'll leave clay to tell
    ya about that one.  ;^)
    
    Big Game

    
    lEe,
    
    	John Pritchard isn't at CXO anymore.  I don't know if he's
    	still with DEC.  
    
    Tim,
    
    	IF YOU WOULDA WENT TO JAKE'S FRIGGIN' GET TOGETHER YOU
    	WOULDA MET ME YOU GAVONA! :*)  
    
    	You're almost as bad as JoJ!
    
    	I don't have to worry about poachers.  The joggers and 
    	mountain bikers keep 'em away.  I did see some mountain
    	lion tracks on the trail that runs through the valley.
    	After finding the nearest big stick, I hightailed it back
    	here.
    
    Jack,
    
    	Ugly?  You oughta know.  You're so ugly that when you were
    	born, the Doc slapped your mother! :*)
    
    'Saw,
    
    	Thanks for the help, but I really don't need it with the
    	likes of these girlymons like Jack.
    
    Claybone

    
    	Oh, and about Big Bertha, her twin, and the blender.......
    
    	Nobody saw me do it.  Nobody heard me do it.  Nobody took
    	pictures of me doing it.  I didn't do it!  ;^)
    
    	Claybone

    Broncos hit a nice trifecta sunday. They beat the dogs on their own
    turf, locked down a playoff spot, and with compliments to the Bills 
    took over first place alone. This all comes as a big surprise to me.
    Anti-Donks around the area are probably begining to feel some heat
    already. Yes the bowl performances have been dissapointing, but they
    sure have squashed a lot of other's plans along the way. A Broncos
    Bills game for AFC Championship does have a nice kind of ring to
    it. Let's see what happens. 
    
    BoB 

      I'm like JoJ?  Gee thanks,  'cause I have met him ;^)  I would have
    made it to Jakes get together,  but my excuse as to why has since left.
    
      The reason why I said poachers is because they caught some guy
    between DEC and Pinon Valley with 6-7 deers in the back of his truck. 
    The dumbsh$% told someone over at the Rock about poaching in that area,
    and some engineer from here overheard him,  and told security who then
    informed the game commision and then sure enough,  he came back to do it
    again, and the game people surrounded him and had airial shots to prove
    his guilt.  Thats when they caught him with the 6-7 deer.
    
     I guess he is spending time in Canon city.
    
    	Tim

    
    	Well, out here, all you'd need to get a deer is a cookie
    	and a hammer ;^)
    
    re. Elway, HoF, from the Giants note
    
    	It won't break my heart if he doesn't make it.  He has
    	entertained this Bronco fan to no end and won more games
    	than he's lost.  That's all that matters to me.  Well, OK.
    	Maybe he could win a Super Bowl for me too. :^)
    
    	His highlight reel would be long.  Everything from "The Drive"
    	at Cleveland to his many "escape the rush and complete a 60
    	yard bomb" plays.
    
    	I'd vote him in but I'm biased.
    
    	Claybone

    The Denver Post headline says it all: "A Cardinal Sin...Almost"
    
    Ain't that the truth.  If Denver would've lost that would've clinced
    the bye for Houston and given the Faids a better shot at winning the
    division.  Denver can still get a bye for the first weekend of the
    playoffs if the Giants beat Houston Saturday and Denver beats San
    Diego.  Denver will win the AFC West tonight if the Saints beat LA
    tonight.  
    
    The AFC West title will be nice, but it won't mean a hell of a lot
    unless Denver can beat out Houston for the bye.  Denver is assured of
    playing their first playoff game at home, they just don't know if it
    will be the first or second weekend of the playoffs.
    
    Back to the Phoenix game.  Denver had some chances to put more points
    on the board in the first half.  When they had that 3rd and goal in the
    2nd quarter I don't know why they just didn't run a QB sneak.  And I
    think they should've gone for the TD on 4th down.  
    
    Denver got pretty banged up yesterday.  Perryman is out for the season
    and many other players got minor injuries.
    
    
    Go Saints!!!
    Go Giants!!!
    
    Joe
    

      John finds a way to win despite 3 ints.   He was responsible for 9
    card points.  The fumble that Atwater caused was bogus,  Denver should
    have gotten the ball,  thus taking the last 3 points away from cards
    and denver never losing the lead.
    
      Denvers offense looked good at the start,  but then didn't take
    advantage of opprotunities.
    
     Defense played well as usual.
    
     Injuries are key here:
    
      Perryman out, Sewell, Meck,Russell,Dimry, Lang, & Traylor.
    
      I thought I saw Montgomery limping as well,  but he wasn't reported
    aas hurt in todays loco rag......
    
    
      After faids lose tonight,  the division is a lock!
    
    	Tim

    Keep dreaming Tim, the Raiders are gonna come marching in tonight!
    I think the Raiders showed everybody last week that they could outplay
    the best in the league (even if they lost), just like I think the
    clueless Donks showed everybody yesterday just how pathetic they really 
    are! Can't believe this team is even in the playoffs. Forget winning the
    Division, the Donks are gonna hit bottom next week against the
    Chargers, and then they'll go on to choke against their first playoff
    opponents guaranteed!
    
    Carlos

    I watched yesterday's game.  The Cards looked almost competent.

    RE .567
    
    SSDD
    
    
    Joe

    
    
     What A Game... !!!
    
     I was at Pile It High yesterday to watch the Donks come through with
    another in a long line of BIG wins.  The Donks played a great game and
    had to endure many bad calls by the Zebras.  The Cards were fired up 
    and were playing with the mind set that they had nothing to lose. When
    the fumble by the Cards was ruled down I thought the Zebras were in 
    deep do do so to speak.  The Stadium went nuts.  It was so loud you had
    to scream to the person next to you.  This was really a bad call and
    showing it on diamond vision and the park may not have been the best 
    idea.  The Donks are a lock for the Divison now,  There is no way the
    happless Faiders can win this game with wrong way jay at the helm. 
    Look for the saints to blow the faids out in N.O.
    
    
    Big Game

    RE.568
    Carlos I'm new to this conference and maybe I'm newer to football than
    I thought, but with a final score of 27-0, yes the big goose egg zero.
    It looks like those Faiders of yours just showed up for their own
    funneral...Yes No...  I mean a team that can put only 102 yards of
    offense on the board and no points, well I wouldn't be bragging all
    that much.  Tell me what do you think!!!!!!!!
    
    Jim
    

    The Broncos win the Western Division.  The Broncos will have a first
    round bye with a win over San Diego on Sunday coupled with a Houston
    loss to the Giants on Saturday.  The Raiders and Chiefs will play each
    other back-to-back, with the winner on Sunday hosting the wild-card
    game and the winner of the Jets at Miami game playing at either Houston
    or Denver.
    
    John

Interestingly enough, I think it was Frank and Al who were talking
about the difference between being the 3rd Division winner and the
1st WC.  

I gather there isn't much, because you both play on "wild card weekend"
and you both play at home....


'Saw