Conference 7.286::sports_91

    >             -< My guess: he'll get $5mil per year...... >-
    
    From a west coast team after the 1991 season.

Not west coast team but probably the Astros who are dropping all their high
priced talent now to help beef up the treasure chest his "highness" walks 
away with. Soxs are in big trouble here. With their luck they give him 5
million per for 5 years quaranteed and his arm is blown out. They don't sign
him this year he has a great year and packs....

personally I'd do the later he's a head case anyways...

mike

    
    I say "Take a chance.  Sign him."
    
    It ain't my money, and yes, he could have a blown arm in a year.  But
    gee....maybe, just *maybe*, he'll continue to be the best pitcher in
    the game for another five years. 
    
    Dickstah
    

Astros aren't likely to be signing anyone for that kind of money. 
Their dumping all their high-priced talent because they want to 
lower the payroll so a buyer can be found. Unless the teams is 
sold, doubt that present management will spend the bucks.

daryll

    	Roger would sell a lot of tickets.  Plus in that canyon he would
    be real tough to hit.
    
    				/Don

    
    Talks continue between the Sox and Clemens as well as the Sox and
    Mike Greenwell. 
    
    Clemens agents, the Hendrick's brothers, have stated they are looking
    for a "highest paid player" contract ($4M+) and that the Sox need
    to get it done within the next two weeks or so. The Hendricks
    apparently have a number of clients who will keep them very busy
    during arbitration hearings (the Sox appear to be equally tied here
    too) and they refuse to negotiate after spring training starts.
    
    
    Greenwell has placed a 4 year $12 million plus deal on the table. The
    Sox have offered four years at around $11 million. Greenwell will
    probably file for arbitration shortly. I still expect the Sox to
    trade him. After all, would you nearly double your original offer
    to a guy whose position is fillable?
    
    

 and because the Bank of Kuawait is located in the same building everyone
 entering has to be stopped and searched. Boy I would have like to seen
 his "highness" reaction to that....

 mike

    
    Clemens signs!  The price?  Half the oil in Kuwait, but who cares?
    YAHOO!!!  THE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER!  THE
    FRUSTRATION ENDS!  COMMITMENT TO WINNING IS REALIZED!  MANY LONG TIME
    SOX FANS CAN DIE HAPPY!!  YIPPEE!
    
    Dickstah
    

    If this team doesn't come smoking out of the starting gate, the "ya bum
    ya" types are going to be on them like flies on you-know-what...
    
    
    py

    
    >    If this team doesn't come smoking out of the starting gate, the "ya bum
    >    ya" types are going to be on them like flies on you-know-what...
    
    
    And deservedly so.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Whoa,
    	Let's not castigate dem Sox already if they don't come out smokin'
    After Clemens and Darwin,can the Sox rely on a good 3rd or 4th starter
    (Young,Dopson,Harris, somebody please step forward). And what about
    team speed? Burks and that's it. And 3 mil for a Dh( greenwell cain't
    field,he's the dick stuart of the outfield). Plenty of questions
    
    MikeL
    

 Yahoo they signed Clemens, I don't have to worry about material for the next
 5 years. It a shame though to see them throw money at Greeny, Bruno and Clark
 whilst Ellis sits around waits....

 mike

  hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahaa

  believe what you want Mac, but I know it's not a senority thingy....

  mike

    Sox sign Burkes to a 1 year contract reportedly worth $1.825 million.
    
    Sox are going into Winter Haven with no contract grumblings (no
    holdouts, no ugly arbitration hearings) for the first time in a while.

Since the Sox have so much money to spend on their players, they'd
better make it good for the fans this year.  I'd expect to see
some high class promotions.  Some suggestions are:

	- Rolex Watch Day

	- Gucci Handbag Day

	- Dom Perignon Day

With Promotions like this, they'll set attendance records and allow
maximum exposure of their gold plated, billion dollar all club....

'Saw

    'Saw, they are already setting attendance records. 
    
    Besides, I'd rather have a champeenship than a Gucci handbag.

Heck, the fans have waited SO LONG for a champeenship, if they win
one, they should give the FANS World Series rings and not the players!

hahahahha,
'Saw

    
    While they won't have any contract squabbles to worry about don't
    count on this team to be quiet and reserved. Mike Marshall is already
    bellyaching about how great he is and that he should be handed a
    job or traded. He's pissin' and moanin' about Vaughn and Quintana.
    The guy hasn't completed a season in 5 years and spent the winter
    exploring possibilities in a foreign country. Get real. 
    
    Then there'll be the Clemens_tribute_to_the_departed nonsense. 
    
    And there's bound to be a Lou Gorman statement about Britt Burns
    or one of these other aging arms being another "Jack Billingham".
    
    Oh yah, By the Way, we also have all these millionaire outfielders
    who'll now start griping about all kinds of other things.
    
    Nay, nay. Things are never dull for very long in Sox land. 
    
    What didya say? The truck ain't shown up yet? The doors to the park
    are locked? 
    
    Typical. 

    
    Look for the Sox to win a champeenship in the next five years.  I'm
    serious.
    
    glenn
    

    
    Dom's over-rated, unless it's a Rose of course! 
    
    
    
    
    Steve

    'Saw, you can defer in all cases. I'll drinking all the cases :^>
    
    Bull~
    
       

    
    Believe me 'Saw if I had my choice bixtween an expensive bottle
    of chapagne or a case of Oktoberfest, I'd take the brew anyday!
    Unless of course the bottle of champagne happens to be a Magnum!
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    The Woostah papah has an editorial cartoon today of the Red Sox bus
    heading down to spring training, and there's singing coming out of the
    bus:
    
    "A hundred bottles of Dom Perignon on the wall, a hundred bottles of
    Dom...."
    
    Looks like they've been scooped by the SportsNotes.
    
    Dickstah
    

    One refreshing change this year is that the Sox have to be considered
    favorites in the east (along wif Toronto) - so in here and in the Sox
    notes I won't have to wade through the usual "overachieving" B.S. that
    most Sox fans throw out every year.  There are NO excuses if the high
    rolling Sox don't do it this year.
    
    JD

    A couple of years ago it was 24 players- 24 cabs...
    Now its 24 players and 24 limos.....
    
    REK

    	The best cartoon was the one run in the Herald Sunday.  It showed
    Roger stepping out of a Rolls Royce that had steer horns on the
    hood.  Over on the side were another 10-20 Rolls Royces with different
    players names on them.  Underneath the caption read...  "The Boston
    Red Sox, 24 players, 24 Rolls Royces."  8^)
    
    	Also that Philly writer Conlan was debating with Bob Ryan whether
    or not Roger should've gotten the money.  Conlan had a classic line...
    "why would you guarantee over 20 million to a guy who *could* spend
    the rest of the season with Nurse Ratched saying 'put the ball in
    the hole Chief'"  I was rolling.  Was almost as good as his "one
    foot on a banana peel and the other in the Betty Ford Clinic" when
    talking about the Yankees guaranteeing Pascual Perez's contract
    last year.  The guy's a piece of work.
                                    
    				/Don

    JD, I disagree.  I don't see Boston taking the East as I feel that
    numbers 2-5 in the rotation are still question marks.  Also, unless Rob
    Murphy returns to his 1989 form, I don't see anyone stepping forward to
    fill Larry Anderson's role.  Reardon's back still has to be tested over
    the long haul.  No closer, no parade in October.
    
    Toronto has a better everyday lineup and a healthy Baltimore will
    compete to the end. 
    
    Boston may have the fattest payroll, but they still need to fill some
    key holes.
    
    Mark.

    Hey thanks Mark.  Now, come Sept. when the Sox are still in it, I can
    hear the familiar litany "Who ever expected them to be where they are. 
    What a gutsy bunch of guys.  Overachieving to the max.  Blah, blah,
    blah"
    
    I don't know, in the past, teams spending a lot of cash were put down
    if they didn't win it all.  Sox have NO excuses this year.   If they
    don't win this year, they will be chokers, plain and simple.
    
    By popular opinion (Boston-area), the Sox have the best pitcher in
    baseball, the best 3rd baseman, the best catcher, 2nd baseman and
    center fielder in the American league, a solid left and right fielder,
    plus a solid first base/designated hitter combo.  After the franchise,
    they have a very passable starting rotation, plus a stopper.
    
    This team is talented. This is not an overachieving team.  This is an
    underachieving team.  
    
    No excuses.  No excuses.  No excuses.  It's finally put up or shut up
    time for this team.  No more loveable 2nd place finishes, no more
    valient sweeps in the playoffs.  Either win it all or drop to the
    cellar.
    
    JD

    It'll come down to whether or not Darwin and Young succeed in picking
    up the slack left by Boddicker's departure.  If they do, the Sox should
    win it.  Toronto is different, but I'm not convinced they're better;
    much as I'd like to see the O's win it, I still think they're a year
    and a Rhodes and a Mussina away.
    
    If Darwin and Young fall flat on their faces, this team could very
    easily finish fifth....
    
    
    py

    Exactly what expectations did *you* have for the Red Sox the past five
    years, JD?  Anything close to the three division titles and one
    pennant that they did win?
    
    To be sure, the Red Sox have been imperfect and have come up short, but
    I've probably gotten more enjoyment out of watching them play over the 
    last five years than have the baseball fans in all but a few cities 
    (and I'm first and foremost a displaced Baltimore Orioles fan!)  
    
    glenn
    

Pena is a good solid catching, perhaps approaching greatness.  But the best?
I love to watch him play however.


I tend to agree with Hawk.

The Sox have marginally increase their talent over last year, for a much
more expensive outlay of dinero.  Personally, while some of you may
disagree, I think that Gorman could General Manage his way out of a
paper bag.  And while they owner may not be a blatantly inept as
George was, they have been quietly mucking up the works for years.

Pitching wins ball games.  Team speed wins ball games.  The Red Sox
have one great pitcher, and a passable remainder as JD has said.
They have know team speed.  Even I, who have all the speed of
Yogi Berra carrying a Franklin Stove, would be fast on the REd Sox....

Alas, I think we've just spent a ton of dough to keep the status quo...

No parade in October....what else could you expect?

'saw

    Wasn't that supposed to have been a WET paper bag, 'Saw?  When I first
    read it, and thought that not only could Gorman manage his way out of a
    paper bag, but a *dry* one, I said to myself, "Damn, that's impressive.  
    I'm glad the Sox are in such good hands..."
    
    Quite a feat for Lou, if'n ya think about it...
    
    glenn
     

That's what I love so much about baseball. You can't tell anything about a team
judging it from pre-season. You can't even predict one game from another
never mind trying to predict a whole season..

Who would have figured the White Sox to play so well last year and the Royals
so poorly? Joe superstar can just as easily have a horrible season as a good one
during any given year. There's just too many variables to say if X team doesn't
win it all than they've underachieved (except if it's the Mets)

Granted the A's should be in the playoff hunt with the talent on the team but to
predict in the pre-season when there's 162 games plus playoffs to go that they
should win it all without a doubt is really quite funny.

Especially with a team like the Sox with some huge holes in their lineup 
(Starting pitching after Clemens, Closer, SS) you can't predict much of anything.

The Royals, Angels and Padres have proven many a time that having the highest 
paid players doesn't mean that you have the best.

If the Sox had signed Boddicker then I'd say they would be the favorites to win
the AL East..but with Young (19 losses) and Darwin trying to fill his shoes I
have to say the East is a toss up this year between the Sox, O's and Jays.

Metz

Glenn, 

I gotta have the field circus guy come out and look at this
keyboard.  It throwing a words is very you know.

I mean, It KEEPS throwing a LOT OF words AND is very EXASPERATING you know!

Right.  

	Lou Gorman manage bags!

I mean


	Lou Gorman could not General Manage his way out of a wet paper bag!


Phew!

'Saw

    Glenn,
    
    First, where do you get off with the sad dishonest bullsh*t?  I've
    expected a LOT from the Sox over the last 5 years.  They've had a very
    talented team, except that Sox fans, for the most part, seem to feel
    securer if they label them as average - thereby the scenario of"
    
    *  If they win, it's amazing that they did it, what with the lack of
       talented players that play for them.
    
    *  If they don't win, it's - "Hey who expected them to do anything,
       anyway"
    
    The negative response I get from the so-proclaimed Red_Sox Super Fan
    Jihad, both here and in the Sox notes, only leaves me to believe that
    most Sox fans are afraid to say the Sox are good.  Afraid that the
    razzing they've given other teams will come back to haunt them.
    
    So Glenn, I know it's hard for you to believe, but you're way off base
    on this point.  I've been a Sox fan my whole life, and I feel that
    they've had a good product over the last few years - and that they've
    underachieved, not overachieved.  
    
    And my feelings are being borne out again - everyone is already
    starting the"  "well, we ain't really that good, oh sob" - but come
    August it will be "WOW, what a bunch of overachievers!!!  What a bunch
    of scrappy, blue collar players... "
    
    JD

    
    > First, where do you get off with the sad dishonest bullsh*t?  I've
    
    Probably the same place you do with the usual "sanctimonious" Red Sox
    fan routine.  You don't take it too seriously, and neither will I,
    okay?
    
    > And my feelings are being borne out again - everyone is already
    > starting the"  "well, we ain't really that good, oh sob" - but come
    > August it will be "WOW, what a bunch of overachievers!!!  What a bunch
    > of scrappy, blue collar players... "
    
    Not from me.  If you noticed, yesterday I said that this team has
    enough going for it, with their current players and what I see coming
    up, that I have reasonable expectations that they'll win it all 
    sometime in the next five years.  I don't think you could have made 
    that statement five years ago, and if you did, I think you were being 
    unrealistic.
    
    By the way, what're you gonna do if they ever do win it, JD?  Enjoy it
    or implode from all that pent-up frustration? ;-)
    
    glenn
    

    JD, what a crock. (lats notwithstanding)
    
    Mark.

    Glenn,
    
    Sanctimonious can be easily proven.  Just read the Sox notesfile for a
    year or so.  More back-patting in there then at the dog show.  
    
    Boston teams are generally characterized as gutsy underachievers.  Many
    fans characterize other teams as ovverated, media hyped, etc....
    
    JD

    JD, just about everyone in baseball, not just in Beantown, didn't
    expect the Sox to win the AL East when they did.  If you really think
    Kieker, Bolton, Gray, et.al. didn't overacheive last season, I guess
    you didn't get that many games in Seattle.
    
    I think there will be big things expected of the Sox this year, though. 
    There won't be as many distractions in spring training.  Burkes,
    Greenwell, Brunansky, and Reardon are healthy.  They've added a slugger
    in Jack Clark.
    
    There are some serious questions on this club, though.  Can Darwin and
    Young replace Boddicker?  Can Murphy come back to form and give them
    back a Larry Anderson type stretch performance.  Will Lamp's luck
    finally run out?  How is Reardon's back really holding up?  Will we see
    sophmore slumps from the likes of Bolton, Kieker, Gray, and Quintana?
    
    I'm just going to sit back and enjoy being close to baseball again.

    Mac,
    
    How can a team win 3 of 5, yet everyone not expect nothing less than a
    title year?  That unreal.  With the lineup they have, they should
    always be in it.  The pitching isn't as bad as everyone is making it
    out to be.  I strongly feel that Darwin will win at least 16 games. 
    Clemens should win about 27 with that lineup.  
    
    Overall, the Sox strenghtened the team in the offseason.  They should
    take the next logical step up.  A World Series berth is expected by me.
    
    JD

    As a somewhat objective bysitter, I think JD's got a pretty solid
    point.  I was in Boston doing Sandbox demos at DECWorld last August
    when the Sox started to struggle and the papers, TV and  radio
    reporting was nothing but "Oh, well, this was inevitable.  The boys was
    playin' over dere heads, an' it's come home to roost."  Remember the
    Globe printing the countdown as the Sox lost their lead in the AL East? 
    I kept that one for a souvenir.
    
    My wife made a nifty comment when she came back to New England with me
    for a foliage vacation and business trip.  She was looking at the Globe
    one morning during breakfast, either right after the ChiSox series or
    after the first game of the LCS.  Somebody was paying the Sox a left
    handed complement for staying alive long enough to have the opportunity
    get vaporized in the LCS.  She commented, "This town doesn't deserve
    this team."
    
    To be fair (as George reminded me in the baseball notesfile last year),
    the media isn't the same as the fans.  But I do think that a lot of
    people read this crud and it affects the way a whole bunch of people
    think about the Red Sox.
    
    Dave W.

    	So if we are using payroll as the measuring stick of a team's
    talent one would have to surmise that the team with the largest
    payroll is the league's best, and if that team does not win the
    World Series they choked.  Want to guess who has the largest payroll
    in baseball?
    
    				/Don

    
    
	Pitchers 
		1990		1991
	ROTATION:
	1.	Clemens		Clemens
	2.	Boddicker.......Darwin
	3.	Harris..........Young
	4.	Bolton		Bolton
	5.	Kiecker		Kiecker/Dopson
	BULLPEN:
	6.	Reardon		Reardon
	7.	Andersen........Harris
	8.	Gray		Gray
	9.	Murphy		Murphy
	10.	Lamp		Lamp/Kiecker/Hetzel
		Hesketh		Hesketh
		Gardner.........

	Departed: Boddicker, Andersen, Gardner 
	Added:    Darwin, Young, (healthy Dopson?)

	Everyday players and bench

		   1990		1991
	STARTERS:
	11.	C  Pena		Pena
	12.	1B Quintana.....Vaughn	
	13.	2B Reed		Reed
	14.	3B Boggs	Boggs
	15.	SS Rivera.......Naehring
	16.	LF Greenwell	Greenwell
	17.	CF Burks	Burks
	18.	RF Brunansky	Brunansky
	19.	DH Evans........Clark
	BENCH:
	20.	   Marshall.....Quintana (Marshall?)
	21.	   Barrett......Rivera
	22.	   Heep.........Moses
	23.	   Marzano	Marzano		
	24.	   Romine	Romine (Plantier?)
	25.	   Kutcher	Kutcher	
	
	Departed: Evans, Barrett, Heep, (Marshall?)
	Added:    Vaughn, Naehring, Clark, Moses, (Plantier?)

    
    Net minus on the pitching side, and if Reardon's back isn't healed you
    can throw away a third of Clemens' wins.
    
    Net plus with the everyday lineup, but a lot of question marks
    regarding the long term health of Clark and Naehring.
    
    Overall, I see little improvement over last year's team.
    
    Mark.

    
    > My wife made a nifty comment when she came back to New England with me
    > for a foliage vacation and business trip.  She was looking at the Globe
    > one morning during breakfast, either right after the ChiSox series or
    > after the first game of the LCS.  Somebody was paying the Sox a left
    > handed complement for staying alive long enough to have the opportunity
    > get vaporized in the LCS.  She commented, "This town doesn't deserve
    > this team."
    
    I think there's some confusion here.  The Boston media's attitude
    towards the Red Sox is a lot closer to JD's than those of the fans who 
    can appreciate what they've done in the recent past.  That is, come 
    last September the papers starting filling up with the "choke" stories, 
    immediately followed by the ALCS "choke" stories, and inevitably there 
    would have been World Series "choke" stories had they made it that far.  
    Sure, occasionally a Bob Ryan pops in for an apologetic reality check, 
    but generally the Shaughnessys of the papers dominate and are quick, 
    swift and relentless with the hammer, regardless of the circumstances.  
    
    I even heard Nick Cafardo, a competent baseball writer, come right out 
    and say on a radio show last week that as a beat man he gets much more 
    enjoyment out of his work with a losing Boston club than a winning one.  
    I'd say that's typical in Boston.  In some other cities no one would 
    even bother picking up the paper if the team wasn't doing well, but in
    Boston it's relished by the media and a very vocal contingent of
    malcontented fans. 
    
    I don't think your wife was referring to the fans who appreciated
    the effort and came away nothing more than a little disappointed with
    their ALCS performance (which was not up to snuff, win or lose, I
    freely admit).  Anyone who was sincerely counting on an ALCS win over
    the A's, followed up by a World Series victory, was not residing in 
    this world.  Hoping, yes, but not expecting...
    
    glenn
     

One thing that you can say about the Boston Red Sox is that their fans
are loyal.  Regardless of what attitudes may be attributed to us, 
or regardless of what excuses are attributed to us, we are LOYAL.

My dad has been a Red Sox fan for years and years and years.  I've
been a Sox fan since I started following baseball in 1966.

No matter what they have done, no matter what Liebestod we've gone
through in 1967, 1975 (bad), 1986 (THE WORST), we've stood by them.

In fact, if/when the Sox ever win the Big One, I won't know how to
react.


JD, I can understand what you are saying, but if you take a step 
back there are many, many teams whose fans are the same way.
It's not just a Boston phenomenon in this case....

'Saw

    I'd bet Plantier and Vaughn start the year in the minors so they don't
    accumulate seniority for future arbitration later....
    
    -Walt

    I agree about the crowd which shows up for the games, Glenn.  I love
    going to games at Fenway.  Of course, I like going to the Twinkie
    Metrodome too, which tells you that I have no standards ;-).
    
    It seems to me that Boston has embraced Red Sox chokes as some kind of
    cultural heritage.  Some towns think winning is a birthright, and other
    towns have baseball but almost conciously ignore it until the team gets
    into the pennant race with a shot at the big prize.  But Boston seems
    unique in this pessimism.
    
    As far as paying players is concerned:  you may not be able to buy a
    pennant, but I think there is a flip side to that principle -- you can
    fritter a good team away by not rewarding them or by rewarding them
    inequally. Take a look at Houston and the post-Thrift Pirates.
    
    Dave W.

    re .63:
    
    Moe Vaughn, whom the Boston media has already handed the AL Rookie of 
    the Year award to on a silver platter, start the year in the minors?
    Heaven forbid...  :-)
    
    
    py

    
    I,too,.have been a loyal,diehard Sox fan for years. I agree that the 
    media creates an atmosphere of expected doom for the Sox which the fans
    always point to when the Sox end up on the losing end. However, it
    doesn't deter me from rooting my a** off for them every year. I think
    one of these years, they're going to win it all. Glenn, I agree with
    you that a champeenship will come within 5 yrs(look at the influx of
    young talent, Reed,Naehring,Vaughn,etc. just keep developing some
    young pitching and keep the pursestrings relatively open). But, then
    again I've been an optimist all these years.
    	I'm still not over '86 tho, and every btime the Sox come close,I
    always expect the worst. I'll never forget being at a Halloween party
    watching game 6,with all the partgoers seemingly throwin them pitches
    with Schiraldi and Stanley. As soon as they lost, party was over. The
    house was cleared out in 10 minutes.
    
    Hey 'Saw, how close are you to the Connecticut Yankee-Red Sox mythical
    d-mark line?  closer to Pew haven than Hereford?
    
    MikeL
    
    

	Walt, old bonehaid Morgan is already sowing those seeds in the 
media with his "it's Quintana job" quotes.  My guess is Mo will get the 
call after a good start in the minors and they will *try* to trade Carlos 
to anyone who wants a 25 year old firstbaseman with the body of a 40 year 
old.

				/Don

>    Hey 'Saw, how close are you to the Connecticut Yankee-Red Sox mythical
>    d-mark line?  closer to Pew haven than Hereford?

Nope.  I grew up in Glastonbury, which is just slightly south east of
Hartford, across the Connecticut River.

It's smack dab in the middle of that area that is the MIX of Yankmee and
Red Sox fans.  One of my dad's best friends was a Yankee fan.  You should
have heard the two of them go at it.  The "best" was when the Yanks
and Sox would play head to head.  One time I remember Yaz fanned to end
the game.  The stuff from the Yank's fan was unbearable, until later
in the series, Yaz had an excellent game to help the Sox come from behind
to win -- then it went the other way....

Nothin' like it....

'Saw
    
    

 No, I beg to disagree ...
 
 Right now, Red Sox fans are a breed unto themselves.  Just about all of
 that special something is wrapped up in the l-o-n-g titleless streak
 dating back to 1918.  And each seven-game nightmare Series loss (1946,
 1967, 1975, 1986) just enhances the dark legend that much more.
 
 Other teams have long losing histories.  The Cubs and the Phillies come to
 mind.  The Cubs' fans, who have waited even longer than Boston, seem to
 inspire a lovable "what-the-hell-let's-party" attitude about their
 misfortunes.  Many, many times I have resolved to adopt that exact
 attitude about my own favorites if only to save my own sanity.  
 
 Red Sox fans will do no such thing.  Each loss is another chapter in the
 I-Told-You-This-Is-Agony Book.   
 
 I sympathize with Red Sox fans and I wish they could have a title.  I grew
 up a Phillies fan and the 1970s were a gut-wrenching roller coaster ride. 
 They had a simply awesome team with a young Mike Schmidt and a prime time
 Steve Carlton.  They had great defense, plenty of sock, solid fundamentals
 and a deep bullpen.  They were my dream team.
 
 However they had the albatross of 97 years of franchise history and not a
 single title to show for it.  And their long history of failures was just
 as heart-rending as the Red Sox.  Whisper "1964" in any Phillies' fan's
 ear and you'll see him shudder in dread horror of that debacle.
 
 So, they won three straight *dominating* division titles in 1976, 1977,
 and 1978 yet lost in the playoffs each year.
 
 And the doom gloomed lower each year.   Finally, Danny Ozark was canned
 and Pete Rose arrived and all the ghosts went away forever in 1980. 
 
                             *** FOREVER ***
 
 I sincerely hope the Boston Red Sox can have their own "1980" someday. 
 But you will have to give up a certain part of your "heritage" as Sox
 fans.  1980 was the Promised Land for the Phillies but once you drink from
 the Holy Grail, the whole world changes.  The drink is sweet, no doubt,
 but it marks a significant change and you'll never drink the old drink
 again.  Part of the special unique feeling you have now as Red Sox fans
 will be gone forever.   A lot of people will gladly say so long but still
 others will look back and say it was so simple back then when they blew it
 every year.
 
 How Red Sox fans survived 1986 is beyond me.  I have never seen sports
 fate so cruel and rotten than in the 10th inning of Game Six in Shea
 Stadium.
 
 Bob Hunt

>>	Walt, old bonehaid Morgan is already sowing those seeds in the 
>>media with his "it's Quintana job" quotes.

I read the same quotes, /Don, but I read them differently.  I think Morgan was
just stating the obvious for the papers.  People have already awarded Mo Vaughn
the rookie of the year/MVP trophies.  Morgan was just reminding people that it
was Quintana's job to lose in spring training (same for Rivera/Naehring at SS). 
He points out that the lineup that won them the pennant last year was a good
starting place for the spring and the rookies would have to win their jobs from
the vets.  That's a healthy attitude.

j.

    Hawk and Saw - I've been saying for years that 'fans are fans" - but
    there's still that "boston fans are the best in the world" mentality.
    
    Yep, Mark, you iced it.  The division winning team is improved over
    last year.  The Jays aren't as good, IMO. Sox should repeat.  I expect
    it.   I'm with the Sox where I was with the Giants in 1985.  After
    decades of nothing, the Giants finally made the NFL playoffs in 81. 
    The team had a bad year, but generally improved.  I started to not
    revel in merely making the playoffs, or making it beyond the first
    round.  I wanted a division title, I wanted a Championship.  And they
    delivered.  IMO, you have to go beyond, at times, being happy with a
    excellent loss.   The Sox need positive kharma from the fans.  After
    they win it all, then revert back tothe old ways.  I did it with the
    Giants, which is why this year's championship was completely sweet..
    
    It's been fun seeing ya squirm, though.
    
    JD

    
    Mo Vaughn will come north with the club unless he absolutely stinks
    Winter Haven up, whether he's the starter or not.  There's been too
    much written about him, and too many glowing reports from within the
    organization for anything else to happen.  Don't expect to see any
    fuel for the racist/arbitration fire from this one, even if it's 
    because the issue has been pointed out and everyone's watching...
    
    glenn
      

    JD, I challenge you to dig up even *one* example of a anyone in here
    saying Boston fans are number 1.
    
    REK don't count.
    
    Mark.

I've always kind of liked the Sox



                       The Chicago WHITE Sox!!!!


                           HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

                 Cubs and White Sox... ALL THE WAY!!!!

                        WHATTA SERIES!!!!!!!!!!


ALL TOGETHER NOW!!!:::

TAKE! ME out to the BALLLL gaaame
TAKE! me out with the Crowwwwwd
BUY me some peanuts and CRACKerjacks
I don't care if I EVer get back 
So let's ROOT ROOT ROOT for the Cuuuuubbies 
if they don't win it's a shaaaaaaame!!!
`Cause it's ONE... TWO... THREEE strikes you're out
at the OLLLLLLLLLD... BALLLLLLLLL GAAAAAME!!!


YEEEAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Mike JN

    Mark,
    
    Firsted off, the archived copies of SPORTS aren't available - and
    frankly I don't have time.  Heck - "M.L." Carr's p_name for a long long
    time was "Boston - best overall Sports town".  I've read the Boston
    fans are #1 in the Globe, Herald, the Sports note, and the Red Sox
    note.   Hey Mark, I lived there fore 13 years - right in the heart of
    town.  My arguement was always that they were no different than fans of
    other cities - Big Mac should be able to back that up - we sent mail
    about it when he first went to Texas.   It stemmed from the great NY
    bashes that used to go on all the time.  
    
    JD
    

    	He's got no proof Mark.  I bet you beat him in the "Fenway Great
    Lat Posedown" this year too.

    
    Re .70 Bob Hunt
    
    That was a truly beautiful note.  Certainly worthy of the Red Sox notes
    file, where all the best writers are.
    
    Dickstah
    

    I dont see the big difference in this years team compared to last year
    just that there paying big money up front rather than waiting untill
    after people hold out before giving them the big money...Most cities
    would kill to have sports teams like boston (other than a few).  We
    have the celtics (Best Basketball team of all time, most championships
    great fans, the garden).  We have the Broons, who in case you didnt
    know have the longest winning streak of any professional sport (thats
    an above .500 season)..Then we got the soxs, who cosistently almost
    get there, but they give the fans something to be excited about.  Then
    lastly the patiots, who never win but sure get alot of press, and hey
    ya got ta love em....So sit back relax and watch the redsox almost get
    there once again, and if you think there going to win it all you better
    put some money on it becasue im sure it will pay great odds....
    								MaB

Having lived in Seattle for 6 months now I think that their is a difference
between Boston fans and Seattle fans.

The Boston fans are more knowledgeable about their teams but tend to use it
in a negative way. (ie xxx sucks, xxx should be traded) Around here you get
more positive statements. The fans are a lot more rabid about football but
could care less about Basketball and baseball.

You also seem to get a lot more people that could care less about professional
sports in any way.

Boston fans tend to pat themselves on the back a lot and look snobbily down 
on other cities....


JMHO,

  Metz
 

    Cute Laflub, real cute....
    
    REK
    
    

	Hey Metz what do you know anyway, you thought Spike Owen was
    an All Star!

Well, I'm one of those unusual fans who support some Boston teams
and some New York teams.  I'm fiercely loyal to all of them.

I think there is a certain mystique to being a Boston fan.  Whether or
not that's different than being a fan of another team from another
large metropolitan area, I can't say.

I think it takes a certain kind of something to be a Boston Red Sox
fan, just as it took a certain kind of something to be a New York
Giants fan in the late 60's and all of the 70s.

I try to avoid (on a personal level) handing out superlatives such
as BEST.  I mean, you can't compare apples and oranges....

'Saw

>No matter what they have done, no matter what Liebestod we've gone
>through in 1967, 1975 (bad), 1986 (THE WORST), we've stood by them.
    
    Frank, please don't leave out 1978.  I've heard opinions that it was
    even worse than '86 from some circles.
    
    Mark, do you remember what happened?
    
    Dan

    
>    Frank, please don't leave out 1978.  I've heard opinions that it was
>    even worse than '86 from some circles.
    
    Sumthin' about the day "Bucky @#$%ing Dent" entered all our
    vocabularies, as I recall.
    
    You can be cruel, Dan.  ;-)
    
    Dave W.

    Ha ha ha ....
    
    I can just picture The Slasher in his white John Travolta suit with the
    bell bottoms and big lapels, getting busy to the beat of the Bee Gees
    .... :-)
    
    That's even better than Bob Hunt as M.C. Hammer
    
    Ah Ah Ah .. Stayin' Alive, Stayin' Alive ... Ah Ah Ah .. Stayin' Alive 
    Stayin' Aliiiiiiiive  ....
    
    Them was the days !
    
    Doc

    
    I think most long-time hemorredsox sufferers will agree that '86 was
    the worst emotionally.
    
    I remember the Halloween dance at the town hall where most of the
    attendees left the dance floor and huddled around the few tiny black 
    and white portables to watch the end of the game.  When the game ended,
    so then did the party for all intents and purposes.  If Poe were to
    re-write "The Masque of the Red Death" today, the tragedy and the
    horror and disgust of that night would make the plague seem like a
    diaper rash.
    
    Even in the seventh game where the Sox took a three run lead, I
    couldn't get excited, but just stared at the screen, resigned to the
    inevitable.  At that point the spirit was just too broken.  I had
    learned to accept fate in all its ugliness the Saturday night before.
    
    Dickstah
    

    
    Slasher, about them 'shrooms you got that wipe away all traces of bad
    memories:  If you're sellin', I'm buyin'.
    
    Dickstah
    

	Dickstah, you know how they got hypnotists to help you lose weight, 
hypnotists to help you quit smoking.  Well there now is a hypnotist who 
helps you forget memorable Red Sox collapses.  Every time you hear Dick 
Stockton's voice say "there's a high fly ball headed to right", your mind 
goes blank and you start hearing birds chirping, bees buzzing and you get 
the feeling of oneness with nature.  Same thing happens everytime Bill 
Buckner starts to bend down to pick up that slow roller.  It's great.

				/Don

    
    I'll have to give that a try.  Nothing like the birds and the bees to
    take your mind of the unpleasant.
    
    Dickstah
    

    
    	RE: .92
    
    	"High fly ball to right?"  Wasn't Bucky's shot to left or
    	left-center?
    
    	And that was just the icing on the cake for that year.
    	The Red Sox were ahead of NY by something like 13 or 14
    	games before they started their "decline".
    
    							GTI
    

    '86 takes the cake for this Sox fan. The sheer,savage,shocking slap
    in the face during the bottom of the 12th killed me. In '78, you
    had a month of gradual agony before the playoff game so you were
    kind of expecting the results. I could just kill Schiraldi,Stanley,
    Gedman, Buckner, and Johnny Mac.
    
    The visions still remain.
    MikeL
      

    
    
    Does anyone have how many quality starts Roger Clemens had last year?
    
    
    I need it to win a bet...Thanks..
    
    
    
    Jim

    
> And Stanley and Gedman....  To me, Stanley will forever carry the same
> kind of stigma that Chicago Black Sox carried.  He blew it.  But
> Buckner.....  Bill Buckner is still a dirty word in my folks house...
    
    And Buckner stills resides in some kind of fantasy world where he
    expects the fans to be completely displaced and objective and to 
    forget it ever happened (the game was already tied, blah, blah, blah).
    Kind of sad, really.
    
    That reminds me of something I read a couple of weeks ago in the Globe
    that tells you something about Boston fans and really had me rolling.
    Some guy wrote a letter really giving it to Bill Buckner about getting
    a life and accepting responsibility and owning up to the fact that he,
    not the fans, blew it in that game.  It was scathing and pretty long,
    and at the bottom, in the spirit of forgiveness, the letter was signed:
    
    Reverend Something Somebody
    Boston, MA
    
    Brought tears to my eyes (don't ask me of sadness or joy)!
    
    glenn
     
    

    
    Actually, the Boston fans were quite forgiving of Billybuck.  After he
    had returned to the Sox (last year?) he was given one of the longest
    ovations in the opening day introductions.
    
    Dickstah
    

    	Stanley gets the blame for the "wild pitch", but Gedman really
    should've had the "passed ball".
    
    				/Don

    
    /Don, take some more of those 'shrooms.  You're starting to remember!
    

Slasher, 

I don't care how you spread the BLAM.  Stanely couldn't throw, and
Gedman couldn't see out of those slits for eyes he has...

Buckner is so old he couldn't bend over, and Johnny Mac...well....

Oh well.....

'Saw

    Gedman, that big fat pig, missed the ball. Plain and simple. He was
    probably planning his next at bat and figuring how to keep his feet on
    the ground when he allowed a pitch that was slightly outside and high
    to go to the backstop.
    
    Then he and his fat butt waddled back there as Stanley chugged in to
    cover home.
    
    People seem to place alot of blame on Stanley due to his lack of
    effectiveness in his latyer years. But Stanley was one of the best
    relievers in the American League for awhile and actually contributed to
    any success the Sox had during his career. He agreed to start, be a
    middle reliever and a closer. He did it all and never gave any hokie
    excuses. A class act from beginning to end.
    
    But Gedman, that fat pig, has one decent year and holds out for some
    huge amount of money. Then he starts swinging a bat like Cloris
    Leachman, for heavans' sake. In the event a pitcher hits his fat butt
    with a pitch and he gets on base he runs about as fast as George
    Kevarian to a closed hot dog stand.
    
    Big Foot was one og my all-time favorites. It really irks me when he
    gets blamed for that play when it was really that fat pig, Gedman's
    fault.
    
    Rich
    

    But Rich, how do you really feel.
    
    Stanley did pretty well in his later years, too.  He did some great
    pitching down the stretch and in the playoffs in '86.

    
    > Gedman, that big fat pig, missed the ball. Plain and simple. He was
    > probably planning his next at bat and figuring how to keep his feet on
    > the ground when he allowed a pitch that was slightly outside and high
    > to go to the backstop.
    
    Actually, I think it was inside and kind of low, but I still concur
    with the opinion.
    
    > But Gedman, that fat pig, has one decent year and holds out for some
    > huge amount of money. Then he starts swinging a bat like Cloris
    > Leachman, for heavans' sake. In the event a pitcher hits his fat butt
    > with a pitch and he gets on base he runs about as fast as George
    > Kevarian to a closed hot dog stand.
    
    And there you have it, folks.  The opinion of another one of those
    glassy-eyed, adoring, rationalizing Red Sox fans.  Gotta lov' it!
    
    glenn
    

    Ring....Ring....Ring
    
    "Hello......Mr. Brake, it's for you.  It's Rich Gedman.

    	Hey Rich, are you implying that George Kevarian is slow?

    Glenn,
    
    I got the sarcasm, but Sox fans, especially over in the Sox note,
    basically stage a love-fest for the team.  God forbid anyone with a
    differing opinion, as I found out last year after the Clemens/Cooney
    fiasco, when so many of those objective, bitter Sox fans saw fit to
    send me mail and basically try to run me out of the conference because
    I didn't side with Roger (i.e. God).
    
    Glenn, yep, certain players can be criticized - Stanley, Rice, Buckner,
    Gedman, sometimes Barrett, Rivera - but not any of the demigods,
    especially Roger.  
    
    The Sox are alway the underdog, just like the Tarhells are.  Makes
    rationalizing loses in big games a lot easier.
    
    JD

    Wait a minute, JD. I'm older than you, son, and, hence, have been a Sox
    fan longer than you've been alive. 
    
    And, if I'm pissed at Roger or Wade or Ellis or anybody that I think is
    a bonehead, I'll come out and say it.
    
    I used to despise Dwight Evans. The guy pissed me off because he would
    hit 20 HR's a year but they would usually come when the Sox were up or
    down by 10 runs. And he always seemed to get picked off first. It was
    not fashionable to criticize Dewey, "The greatest right fielder in
    baseball". Well, I felt then that Winfield was better and still feel I
    was correct.
    
    But, to Evans' credit, he ended up with quite a career and I found
    myself changing my tune.
    
    As for you, Glenn, I am not starry eyed. You got a problem with my
    analysis of that big fat pig, Gedman? Huh? 
    
    And while we're at it, how can I forget to castigate John "My nose gets
    in the way of the game" MacNamara. Why he didn't put Stapleton in to
    play 1B in Game 6 in '86 still puzzles me. He did it all year long yet
    he kept the guy who taught Mike Dukakis how to grow one eyebrow glued
    to 1B. 
    
    And, yes, /Don, I think Kevarian and Gedman in a 100 yard waddle would
    be a tough call.
    
    Rich
    

    
    George Kevarian once beat Carl Lewis to an *open* hot dog stand.
    
    JD, and when have the Sox ever been the favorite going into the World
    Series?  In our lifetime, that is.
    
    Rich,  I can't really tell if you're serious or not, but that note had
    me rolling on the floor.
    
    Dickstah
    

    JD, give it up.  It's not funny anymore.
    
    Rich, speaking of Keverian, whatever happened to Jabba the Hut?
    
    Mark.

    	Rich, it's obvious you've been out of the state for a while.
    George Keverian went on a slimfast diet and has trimmed down to
    around 450 lbs.  Hey JD how's the beard coming along?
    
    				/Don

Who is George Kevarian?

    
    George Kevarian is the speaker of the house in the Mass. senate.
    The man never met a donut he didn't eat, or a hot dog, or a sausage,
    or a pizza, a twinkie, a ding dong, an entire turkey, any buffet,
    or a baby's arm holding an apple.
    
    The man is an obese pig.
    
    
    Steve

Thanks Steve.

Bill Cibes, the Connecticut State Treasurer is no stranger to the 
training table either.  

Perhaps we could have a real down home, old fashioned PORK OFF....

Set 'em up like Mr Creasote in Monty Python and see which one
explodes first!

Yeee-haha, it's Friday!

'Saw

    I don't think he's the speaker any longer.  Didn't he run for 
    treasurer or something?

    Yeah Karen, he ran for treasurer and was soundly defeated.  He's been
    seen doing the McDonald's, Burger King, Wendy's, KFC circuit.
    
    Mark.

    George was Speaker of the House since 1984.  He ran for Treasurer this
    past year, coming in second to Bill "The Prince of Darkness" Galvin in
    the Democratic Primary.  Galvin lost to Joe Malone in the finals.
    
    Keverian had been a long-time legislator from Everett and worked his
    way up the leadership ranks.
    
    John

    
    I'm dyin! HA HA HA HAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
    
    Mr Creosote, that's him!! Just one more cracker....
    
    
    
    Steve

Howie Carr of the Herald, when referencing the big guy uses:

	"George Keverian (DEM: Papa Ginos)"

    No, no... it's one more after dinner mint... wafer thin...

    
    A democrat in papa ginos is a true oxymoron. The guy who owns papa
    ginos makes Jesse Helms look like a liberal.
    

"Chubby George" took over for Tom McGee, beating him in a commitee election 
to be Speaker.  McGee was a power hungry ignoramus (similar to Bulger [Senate 
President]).  At the time everyone, including myself, felt it was a good thing.

As time went on, Keverian became a lacky for Dukakis, and they even know in 
Conn. how popular the Duke was at the end.

=Bob=

BTW - JD is growing a beard?  This I gota see.

    I forget who said it but I broke ribs laughing after hearing it.



    - How do you balance the Mass. state budget?

    - Take George Keverians lunch money for a month.

    RE: .121
    
    Hey John, taking shots at my Uncle Billy......Not nice  :-)  
    
    Only kidding, I am a devoted republican, and no relation to the Prince
    of darkness.
    
    RTG

    
    Thanks Walt! I couldn't quite remeber if it was a cracker or a 
    mint! too funny..
    
    
    
    Steve

    Mark,
    
    Whattsa matter, a little truth hurt?
    
    Sox fans caint take any criticism at all.
    
    Boo Hoo
    
    JD

    Please take the Python and Kevarian stuff to the Junk Note.  Better
    yet, take the Kevarian stuff to NOTED::MASSACHUSETTS.  There's plenty
    of bitching in there about the state of the state.

       <<< Note 29.130 by RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JO "Un Rosalind der schplat" >>>
    
    JD, you claim that fans are gushing in the Sox notesfile.  If you took
    the time to check, you'd have found that the Sox file has been
    uncharacteristically quiet over the last several weeks.
    
    Please try to keep up.
    
    Mark.

    
re .117
    
>    George Kevarian is the speaker of the house in the Mass. senate.
 
    As I heard a comic say at a club two weeks ago :
    
    "Speaker of the House !? ... He *IS* THE F--KING HOUSE !" :-)

    Hey JD.....you been drinking too much of your node lately? I don't know
    why you still are on the Sox fans' case but it's getting a little
    stale. 
    
    Loving the Sox is a religeous experience. But, when you look at them
    objectively, how can you favor them to win anything? They seldom have
    more than 1 or 2 frontline pitchers, have the team speed of the
    National Snail Sprint Club, are in the middle of the pack fielding-wise
    and have some thick-armed guys who can crank the ball over "Da Wall"
    once in awhile. The last time they were favored to win anything big, I
    believe, was in 1946 versus the Cardinals. Yet, even then, they had
    little for pitching as witnessed by the starting of Denny Galehouse in
    the crucial 7th game. Same ole Sox.
    
    Mac, chill out. How can one divorce the Red Sox from Massachusetts
    politics? Ole Honey Fitz leading the Royal Rooters, Mayor Curley
    offering to buy Landsdowne St and "give" it to Yawkey to extend left
    field. It's tradition. And, with the crew of lackies on Beacon Hill in
    Mass, it's no wonder that they are targets once in awhile.
    
    Now, with that said, Let's Go Sox!!!!!
    
    Rich
     

    Rich, don't get me wrong.  I didn't say *all* Red Sox.  Just the vast
    majority of them.  Remember, I'm a life long Red Sox fan and I'd like
    nothing better than to see them win the whole enchilada.
    
    But the constant rah rah, "my team can do no wrong" of the Red Sox
    noters is .......
    
    JD

    That's good, Mark........it almost worked. 
    
    I was all set to lay into JD again, then I saw when you were born and
    remembered his Pecs and, I thought better of it.
    
    BTW - Anyone see Luis River's muscles this spring?
    
    Rich
    

    Rich,
    
    First, my comments in the ACCnote were explained pretty well by Glenn
    today.  I may not have put them forth too well.
    
    I believe that there's a "We is underdogs" mentality instilled in some
    Boston area fans (especially Sox and Broons fans...)   Everytime they
    win a division its because of overachieving - other teams (especially
    teams from LA and New York underachieve, using this logic...)
    
    I think many Sox fans contradict themselves.  They'll argue for eons
    about how talented their players are, but will then say "Oh woe, our
    team doesn't have the talent to win it."
    
    I've seen it *too* many times.  I've heard demin-god praise for
    Clemens, Burks, Boggs, Reed, Pena, Greenwell - yet the team doesn't
    have the talent.
    
    The acquisitions were pooh-poohed.  The Sox, in case you haven't
    noticed, picked up some good ballplayers.  Darwin was slated to be
    Houston's #1 man.  Jack Clark is a good power man and an RBI man.  
    
    What I said this year, which was deemed horrible by so-called Sox fans,
    was suggest that IMO, the SOX have at the *LEAST* stayed at the same
    talent level as last year, but IMO, have gone up in talent.  And given
    the fact that these poor, underdog, underachieving, striving for
    greatness, boys-town choir boys have *WON* the Eastern Division 3 of
    the last 5 years, I had the audacity to say I *EXPECT* them to win the
    division, and the pennant, and fell that anything less is a failure and
    an underachievement.
    
    You can remain the a perfect Sox fan - always excusing or bitching
    about failure, and attributing success to overachievement, but I'll
    take a little more objective view and say that the Sox are one of the
    best teams in baseball.  
    
    JD

>    noticed, picked up some good ballplayers.  Darwin was slated to be
>    Houston's #1 man.  Jack Clark is a good power man and an RBI man.  

Yes.  I've heard that Darwin has evolved quite nicely, and could be
the missing link in the Sox rotation.  That is if he doesn't wind
up the Beagle in the Dog House.

'Saw

    re the last few:
    
    If this year's Red Sox finish first or second in the AL East, they'll
    have performed about to expectations.   Lower than that has to be
    considered disappointing.   It would take at least an ALCS win for talk
    of "overachieving" to have any merit.
    
    
    py

    JD,
    
    I've been down your road too many times before. I've waited for Opening
    Day with baited breath expecting the likes of Dick Gernet, Eddie
    Bressoud, Ike Delock, Jim Pagliaroni, Billy Consolo and a cast of
    thousands to bring home the banner last cast in 1918. I believed in
    those teams. Right up until that fat pig Gedman blew a catch and that
    Dukakis-eyebrow Buckner failed to bend over low enough to catch a dinky
    grounder.
    
    That's when I figured it out, JD. I had come into so many seasons
    trying to make the Sox the best team in baseball in my mind. I made
    excuses for 35 years. Now I don't make any excuses. I look at the Sox
    with a cynical eye.
    
    Sure, they picked up Clark but who's gonna play shortstop?
    
    Sure, they got Darwin and Young but will they fill Boddicker's shoes?
    
    Who will steal more than 10 bases for them?
    
    Will Mike Greenwell still play left field like Horace Clarke played 2nd
    base?
    
    Who will set up Reardon, Murphy?
    
    Will Murphy be a 1990 or 1989 model?
    
    Can we really expect Harris and Kiecker to do what they did last year?
    
    Why is it that Pawtucket has the potential to have a starting infield
    with everyone over 30 years old?
    
    Can Mo Vaughan hit a major league curve or is he another Sam Horn?
    
    What happened to Carlos Quintanna's neck?
    
    Be serious here. The Sox are not a lock on anything. They have zero
    depth on the bench at 3rd or 2nd base. Naehring is still a rookie and
    untested. Romine still your premier outfield bench man? Matt Young and
    Danny darwin are question marks. Jack Clark is a distraction and will
    piss of Morgan very quickly.
    
    Sorry, JD - too many questions for cynical ole me.
    
    Rich
    

I'd say the Sox stayed even talent wise this off season....

gains were Clark, Darwin and Young (19 losess is a gain)
Losses were Boddicker and Anderson


Some of the players might have had career years last year (Harris,Bolton,Keicker
Gray and QUintana) while others (Greenwell,Brunansky, Boggs) under achieved
compared to previous years.

I'd say that since they won the division last year and no other team has 
noticably improved to any extent that they would be the favorites to win the 
division this year. I wouldn't consider it overachivement if they do so. 

I would consider it underachievement if they don't. Talent wise compared to the
whole of MLB I would consider it a slight overachievement if they win the 
whole she-bang but nothing like a '69 Mets team.

I expect great things out of the Sox this year....I anticipate a total 
collapse and a 3rd place finish :-(


Metz
 

    It was sportwriters and "experts" around the country that picked the
    Sox to finish 5th in '86.  It's not the Boston fans crowning the Sox as
    overachievers.  It's all of baseball.  Afterall, the Toronto Blue Jays
    were supposed to be the dominant team in the A.L. East over the last 5
    years.  The Sox were supposed to be middle of the pack to contenders
    (but not winners) depending on whose column you read.

    As far as the Bruins go, there is a "perception" that because of the
    seemingly large number of injuries they have to overcome every year
    that they are lucky to go as far as they do.  I do count myself among
    that crew but also don't claim to know how their injury rate compares
    to the rest of the NHL.
    
    John

    Rich,
    
    Be as cynical as you want.  So can other Sox fans. I'll show some
    optimism. If you or other fantastic SOx fans don't like it, tough
    cookies.
    
    Losses:  Boddicker - I feel Darwin will be an adequate replacement.
             Anderson - C'mon, the guy isn't Cy Young, or even Bob Stanley.
                        IMO this wasn't a super loss.
    
             Barrett - no loss here.
    
    Gains:   Jack Clark - Power, RBI's, can play first.  Big Gain.
             Darwin - will replace BOddicker (who will, IMO, end up with a 
              worse record than Darwin.
             Young - this is a no lose proposition.
    
    Outfield:  Greenwell, Burks, and Brunasky.  Not bad at all.  SO what
    about Greenwell's defense - lots of clubs field worse then him - look
    at the Dodgers outfield - YIKES.
    
    3B:  Boggs - great hitter, and his fielding has been defended to near
    death by Sox faithful
    
    SS:  Naehring/Rivera - Sox offense can spare having a no hit SS like
    Rivera.  So what if Naehring is just a rookie - every player was once a
    rookie.  THat's how they start out.  
    
    2B:  Jody Reed - again, listening to many Sox fans, this is a premier
    ball player.
    
    1b/dh - Clark, Quintana, etc. - Again, good offense, thought there may
    be a sligt defensive defeciency.
    
    C:  Tony Pena - handles the staff well.  Leadership.  Good offense.
    
    Pitching:  The Sox Fan proclaimed greatest pitcher of all time taking
    the mound every 5th day.  Darwin a good #2 man.  Kiecker and the boys
    have a  year under their belt.  Is Dopson healthy?  
    
    Some question marks, but a better staff then they've had in a few
    years.
    
    A very good baseball team.
    
    My prediction:  SOx win the east.  Sox fans say "What a great
    overachieving, blue-collar bunch of guys.  Beat the overachieving,
    media-hyped teams from Toronto.  Who would have ever predicted they'd
    win the division (insert many pats on back...)"

    Fact is, for every slightly objective Sox fan who's disappointed but
    thinks they've done okay *lately*, there're a hundred vindictive 
    sportswriters, loutish radio talkshow hosts, knee-jerk slobs on the 
    street and displaced Dan Schneiders who bellow "choke!" the minute 
    the Sox slip a half-game out of first.  The reason I asked JD how 
    long he lived here was not to question his fanhood now that he's 
    gone as he presumed, but because I couldn't believe that he had not 
    observed this phenomenon while he was here.
    
    glenn
      

    Glenn,
    
    I did observe the phenon of teh vindictive sportswrites, etc.  But I
    didn't find it much different from the hype in NY.  The papers there
    can be mighty cruel on teams and players, as can the fans.
    
    In fact, when I first went to Boston I was amazed how the papers seemed
    tame, and that they were always picking the Boston teams to win their
    divisions - didn't seem objective at all.
    
    Now, the 78 team choked.  No question about it.  
    
    I feel that the real phenom in Boston is the double standard used in
    talent appraisal - individually, players are praised as the best at
    their position, but collectively, they are identified as a band of
    average players, banding together to fight large odds, reaching down
    and overachieving to win another division title.
    
    Not directed at you, but the real problem is that Many Sox (and Boston
    fans) really believe the "Best Sports Fans in the World" propoganda
    line they've been spoon-fed, and they also cannot take criticism.
    They can dish it out, but they caint take it.
    
    JD

    OK, let's look at a lineup as follows:
    
    1B - Cecil Cooper
    2B - Denny Doyle/Jerry Remy
    3B - Butch Hobson
    SS - Rick Burleson
    LF - Jim Rice (vintage)
    CF - Fred Lynn
    RF - Dwight Evans
    C - Carlton Fisk
    
    You have here a lineup that could blow the SOX off the 1991 edition.
    Add Yaz as a DH and you have one of the most potent lineups the Sox
    ever had. Yet, they couldn't win the WS. Heck, they only won one
    pennant. 
    
    I'll root for them till I die but nobody is gonna look at that team and
    tell me they are the best in the AL East. Hey, if they win it all, I'll
    be happy. If they lose, .....I'm conditioned.
    
    Rich
    

    re: .143
    
    John,
    
    FYI-The Bruins are leading the NHL in most man hours lost to injuries.

    Small blip in the Richmond paper this morning about Wade Boggs escaping
    serious injury when he fell out of a moving van. Any details?
    
    Rich
    

    Not really.  He and Debbie were driving back from dinner going about 25
    MPH, he leaned against the door and it popped open.  Got some cuts and
    bruises, missed a couple of games.  
    
    John

And she said "Sh*t, I missed again!"

    
    "Wade, look!  Is that Margo I see over there on the sidewalk?"
    
    "Wher.....AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

    re .152
    
    HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!

    If Wade gets off to a slow start, you know we'll hear about this
    again...
    
    Dan

    
    Was this Debbie's way of telling him to "hit the road?"
    

    Wade is hitting .170 in the grapefruit league.  I'd say this was a slow
    start and it occured before he fell out of the truck.  I haven't heard
    any excuses yet.

    Boggs is a real piece of work, though.  You or I or the next guy falls
    out of the car in a drunken stupor and the next day at work we're 
    making up a story about walking into a door, out of embarrassment.  
    But no, Boggs proceeds to go on about his life flashing before his 
    eyes and how the incident puts his .170 average into perspective and
    the thing turns into a damn melodrama.  The press kinda blushes and 
    grins at all this, nonetheless taking it all in for the next day's 
    papers while Boggs makes a fool of himself.
    
    Last year it was the night he was held at knifepoint after showing off
    his revolver to some strangers outside a bar.  Before that, Margo.  But
    the worst part is that Boggs seems to think that we're all interested
    in his exploits, so he wears this stuff like a badge of honor.
    
    This is a strange man, Wade Boggs...
    
    glenn
      

    Youse guys got me thinking about Gedman again. Rich, your mention way
    back in .104 or so about his fat butt lumbering after the "passed ball/
    wild pitch" and his tremendous acceleration down the line makes it
    clear to me that we can utilize his speed or lack of as a benchmark.
    Lets' make the fat turd famous.
    
    Just as we use a VUP as a measure of performance, we can use Gedman's
    time down the line as a base measure of performance( must be close to
    1/2 hour)
    
    Let's call it a MPH (Mister Potato Head)
    Therefore Rich Gedman has a MPH of one; Ellis Burks must be measured
    at least at 15 Mister Potato Heads ( the greater the MPH, the greater 
    the speed)
    Anyone who has a (-) MPH is either designated as dead or living in an
    iron lung. (Mike Marshall might be close)
    
    Think of the Gedman MPH as akin to the famous Mendoza line (he of that
    famous .188 batting average)
    
    
    

    :^)
    
    Mark.

    That's it....I just spewed half-eaten peanut M&M's all over my
    keyboard!
    
    What a great idea - MPH's.
    
    Let's see, we'll take a look at the starting lineup:
    
    Boggs      - 1.5 MPH
    Reed       - 2.25 MPH
    Naehring   - 2.5 MPH
    Greenwell  - 2.0 MPH
    Burks      - 4.0 MPH
    Brunansky  - 1.5 MPH
    Quintanna  - 1.25 MPH
    Pena       - 1.75 MPH
    Clark      - 1.5 MPH
    
    Boy, what a bunch of burners. Team MPH must be around 2.0 MPH with some
    blazin speed coming off the bench, to boot.
    
    I love it...a lasting tribute to that big fat pig.
    
    Rich
    

My mph?

Probably around .4 MPH.  I'm the slowest thing since Heinz ketchup.

I mean, if you want me to run a 100yd sprint, pull the trigger on the
gun, go have a coffee, think about taking a leak, go find the mens'
room, take a leak, go get a coffee refill, and you'll still have time
to hold the tape for me at the finish!

And NO, I'm NOT in an Iron LUng......

It may be half baked, but I think if it were voted on the eyes would
have it.....
    

    Say it ain't so 'Saw!
    
    You cain't be slower than Geddie! Nobody physically can be. Tell me
    you ain't below the MPH line! Hath thou been running in quicksand
    
    MikeL
    

    
    'Saw,
    
    	Does this mean we should time you with a calendar or a sun dial?
    
    Claybroon 8^]

I've always been slow.  From what I've read about running, the muscle
fibers that make you fast or slow are a mix of two types.  All the
studies show it's hereditary.

Now my dad was a superb quarter miler in his time, but I don't guess
I got any speed from him.  I take more after my uncle on my mom's
side -- big kind of a guy, excellent lineman material.

I'm not the slowest guy on the rugby team, but fortunately, rugby
is one sport where you don't need to be a speed burner to play
the game.  (thank god!)  And like Mac has said, knowing the game
allows you to conserve energy and play heads up...

I might be faster than Gedman.  I mean, I can see the finish line
better because I don't have slits for eyes...

Maybe this summer we can get Gedman to that track in Northboro.
We can hogtie the WelcherDinz(tm) and get him there too.  AFter
Dinz runs around in his jock, then I can race Gedman and we
can determine my MPH.


'Saw

    'Saw, Nell Carter can run faster than Gedman. Roseanne Barr can run
    faster than Gedman. And, I know you can catch Roseanne Barr....8^)
    
    Rich
    

>    'Saw, Nell Carter can run faster than Gedman. Roseanne Barr can run
>    faster than Gedman. And, I know you can catch Roseanne Barr....8^)

Yeah, now that you put it in those terms.  Although I'd much rather
catch the lass who plays CJ on LA Law.....;^)    

    Dana Keicker sure has been pitching well in the Grapefruit League.  I
    think the Sox pitching staff will be fine this year.  No doom and gloom
    from me.
    
    JD

    
    THIS IS DEFINITELY THE YEAR THE RED SOX WILL GO ALL THE WAY.  THE WHOLE
    NINE YARDS.  THE BIG ONE.  THE ENTIRE ENCHILADA.  THE KINGDOM AND THE
    POWER AND THE GLORY.  JOT DOWN THIS NOTE TOPIC AND NUMBER, SO YOU'LL
    KNOW WHERE YOU READ IT FIRST.  NEVER MIND, I'LL MAKE A NOTE OF IT MYSELF
    SO I CAN RE-POST IT IN OCTOBER.  SO IT IS WRITTEN.  SO LET IT BE DONE.
    AMEN.
    
    Dickstah
    
    

    
    
    DICKSTA IS TO BLAM!
    

    
    4/11 is the home opener, 12th off, 13th vs. Cleveland
    

    Yeah.  The Sox are home on the 11th and the 13th, against Cleveland.
    Both games start at 1:05.

 and home all of October...

 ;^)

 mike

    
    Anybody out there like to have Mike "I'm the best and deserve to play
    every game" Marshall?  Seems he walked out of spring training,
    urinating and lamenting about taking his ball and going home about
    not playing every day.
    
    To his credit, though, I believe he *is* leading the Sox in hitting
    this spring.  Gorman says he's tried to shop him, but nobody seems
    interested.
    
    Dickstah
    

    He's back in camp today.  Says he took a "personal day".
    
    Mark.

    His wife was arrested after she decided to rearrange the cones in the
    parking lot to voice her displeasure over Mike's situation.

    Here's a spot of trivia.
    
    In April of 1967, we all know that Elston Howard of the Yanks broke
    up Billy Rohr's no-hitter.  Who was the Yankee that hit the long drive
    to left that Yaz went back,dove and made a great catch in order to
    preserve the no-hitter at that time?
    

    
    Ooooo Karen your little miss quick trivia for $1000 today aren't you!
    8^)
    
    
    
    Steve

    She's got a book handy.
    
    "Cheat, cheat, ne'er beat."
    
    mark.

    I did have to look up the question.  That took some effort.
    
    What do I win?  Free tix to the next Tigermania?  They'd have to be
    free if I gotta sit next to REK again.  

    If we had gone and did the M-thang like we were supposed to last year
    Karen, you wouldn't have been stuck next to REK ..... :-)

    Congrats, karen
    
    You win an infinite number of tickets to Hawk's and 'Saw's male strip
    show. Bring your barf bag.
    
    MikeL
    

    Damn - I knew the answer to that off the top of my haid.
    
    I even would have given the prize to Karen.
    
    =Bob=

    =Bob= - Quick.  That's the name of the game.  
    
    Okay, here's an easy one.  October 2, 1978.  What was the count to
    Bucky before he hit the homer?
    
    Doc, you never showed at the last one.  I woulda been stood up if I'd
    have went.

     C'mon Karen.. I had your brothers rolling in their seats the whole
    night.. You are still mad about telling me that JD was a scrawny
    little wimp.. :-}
    
    REK

    Ellis Burks walked out of camp.  No reasons given in the report.
    
    lEe

    
    
    April Fool to you too.....
    
    
    Lou

    I wuz there on Pats Day ! Ask John, Hawk or /Don !!!!!!

Doc WAS there on PATS day.  He had his camera, and was gonna ask
me to hold it until he realized the high state of inebriation that
I was in at the time.  I think I remember him asking my brother
to hold it.

I was faced, and had the time of my life, but I remember that
Doc WAS there on Pats day.....


'Saw

    I'm thinking about organizing the next Tigermania and I'll let 
    you know Friday if my plastic can swing it.
    
    Yeah, that's all fine and good but it wasn't the Pats day game that
    were were supposed to do it at.  I could swear it was to have been
    at the last Tigermania.  (The one where Frank was sweating buckets.)
    
    Might be wrong... it's happened before.

>    at the last Tigermania.  (The one where Frank was sweating buckets.)
    
I was not sweating buckets.  

I was sweating like a man on Drugs....8^)


'Saw

    Sooo, Speaking of Pats Day, who will be there this year? I have tickets
    in the grandstand, but if there's a group going to the game, I'd definitely
    be up for meeting youze for a few hunderd bee-uhs. The Rat?
    
    Tom

Tom, 

Look for the guy in the rugby t-shirt, with a PropButt(tm).

If Mac doesn't wear a rugby t-shirt, then it's 100% chance it's
the Chainsaw.

Otherwise, you're looking at 50-50 that it's me....


'Saw

    I'm going and I may have an extra ticket.  Send me mail if interested
    (Lufay?).
    
    John

    Take me out to the bleachers
    Meet me early in the Rat
    Buy me some beers and sportsrooms(tm)
    I don't care if Hawks got no hair
    Cuz its BLAM BLAM BLAM
    On the Sportsters
    I they don't get faced, they wear dockers
    Cuz its Saw, Ninja, and /DOn 
    at the nexted ballgame...
    
    
    

    John, I'm interested in that ticket.
    
    Walt, I need a best man ... are you interested ?
    
    Hawk, would you serve as chaplain ?
    
    John_H, will you bring a BIll James Abstract to serve in place of a
    Bible ?
    
    Saw, will you be the bridesmaid ?
    
    :-)
    
    Doc

    I'll know for sure by mid-week.  After that, I've sort of offered it to
    Lufay first if he's interested, then if neither person takes it Doc,
    it's yours.
    
    The Bill James Abstract hasn't been printed in a couple of years. 
    Since I sort of work with them, I'll bring a 1991 Elias Analyst.  Might
    as well help keep my friends in business.
    
    John

    Sorry, John.  I mentioned to Hawk that I'm goin' a fishin', so I cain't
    make the game.  I just assumed he told you.
    
    Thanks for the offer.
    
    Mark.

    You're a real pal Ninja ! :-)

    Lufay, Hawk didn't tell me.  Sorry you cain't be there.  Doc, you move
    to the top of the waiting list and I'll let you know midweek.
    
    Ninj

    I'd take a ticket...
    
    Mo Vaughn got sent down... SHOCK!!! I bet he's up after the amount of
    time needed to extend a year of arbitration.
    
    Rob Murphy got traded to Seattle...
    
    To quote a commercial Doc,  "No my brother, you have to buy your
    own..."   I'll come on the white horse (watch it Dickster) and
    sweep Karen away at the last minute....
    
    -Walt

    Walt, you always did have a hankerin' for horses.
    
    Anyway, I'm not disappointed at Vaughn being sent down.  He's too
    valuable a commodity to have sitting on the pine for the first 6 weeks
    of the season.  He admitted himself that he got off on a slow start and
    felt he deserved to be sent down.  He also said he'd be back soon
    <insert Arnold's voice-over here).  He'll tear up the International
    League for a month or two and should be up by early June.
    
    Now, if Vaughn got off to a monster spring training, then I'd say yeah
    to the arbitration tactic, but not this time.
    
    Mark.

    Sox up 5-1.  Jack Clark hit a grand slam.
    
    You guys should be ashamed of yourselves... I had to get the score
    from the Grateful Dead file.
    
    Gotta love baseball.

>>    You guys should be ashamed of yourselves... I had to get the score
>>    from the Grateful Dead file.

Everyone's in the RED_SOX conference, where they've received instructions on
how to get onto the distribution list for updates.

BTW, end of 5:

Toronto		1-4-0
Boston		5-4-0

Clemens has 5 strikeouts.

    
    >    You guys should be ashamed of yourselves... I had to get the score
    >    from the Grateful Dead file.
    
    Imagine!  People trying to discuss a serious subject like the Dead 
    and other people jumping in with Red Sox clutter!  It's a good thing
    people don't do that in *this* file. 8*)
    
    Dickstah
    

    It's OVER!  SOx up 5-1 - the champeenship is RIGHT around the CORNER!
    
    JD

    Lessee, Clemens will go, say, 21-6 this year, that coupled with a few
    other wins will make the Soxx 26-136 this year, and they'll take second
    in the ALeast.
    
    JaKe
    

    No way, JaKe, no way with Jack Clark now on a 648 RBI pace!  :*)
    
    lEe

       Been listening to Eddie Anvilhead, eh lEe?
                                     Denny

    	Jack Clark is Gawd!  The Sox are going all the way.  Is it to
    early to order ALCS and World Series tickets?
    
    				/Don

COuld someone tell me the name of  the REDSOX conference.  I somehow lost
it in the shuffle.


                                                    thanks, Alan

    Was that the "World Series Shuffle", kinda like the Superbowl Shuffle?
    
    lEe  :*)

    Roger Clemens goes 31-2.
    Matt Young goes 19-10.
    Danny Darwin goes 22-6.
    Tom Bolton undefeated at 17-0.
    Greg Harris is 12-3, but gets injured.  Dana Kiecker replaces
    him in the rotation and goes 10-4.
    
    Bullpen = 19-7.
    
    Red Sox overall record = 130-32.
    
    PENNANT FEVER SWEEP HUB!
    
    NAZZ

    > Was that the "World Series Shuffle", kinda like the Superbowl Shuffle?
    
    Nah, more like the Curly Shuffle.  :-)
    
    
    py

    
    A fair projection, Nazz, but how do you see the Red Sox losing 32 games
    this year?  Are the umps that much against them?  Anything less than
    undefeated is a choke job. 8^))).
    
    Dickstah
    

   >	How `bout 103 - 61 ????
    
    Why the 2 game playoff?
    
    Mark.
    

    Are the Sox in town July 13,14,15,15,17???????
    
    JD

    
    Yes, if your town happens to be in Minneapolis (or thereabouts) or
    Chicago.
    

    Negative, Sarge.  In Minny on the 13th and 14th.  In Chi-town the 15th
    through the 17th.
    
    Mark.

    All-Star break is July 8-10.  Nearest home game before the 13th is the
    7th against Detroit.  Nearest home game after the 17th is on the 18th
    against the Twins.
    
    Ninj

    When is the Fayster supposed to rule on Clemens?
    
    Mark.

    Thought I should be conservative in my prediction.
    
    Please note that I even figured in an injury factor (although
    not to Roger of course, since he's superhuman).
    
    HTH,
    
    NAZZ

    	Doc, if that's the result of Clark breaking wind then I'm sure
    we could get up a collection amongst Red Sox fans to give Jack a
    seasonal pass to Taco Bell.
    
    				/Don

    Hey, go for it. It jut cracks me up how Sox fans seize on a savior
    every year .... Pena last year for his leadership. This year it's
    Clark, who is supposed to be a clubhouse leader, and long-ball threat.
    I can see half of that ... but this guy has also been a pain in the ass
    in SF, StL, and San Diego last year. If Jim Rice showed 10% of the
    'leadership' Clark did in SD last year, he'd been shot.
    
    Sox fans had better hope Clark hits 30 HR's (likely), and doesn't P.O.
    too many people (a crapshoot) ....
    
    Doc

    > Sox fans had better hope Clark hits 30 HR's (likely), and doesn't P.O.
    > too many people (a crapshoot) ....
    
    ...and that AL pitchers take a while to realize that Clark is to the
    Red Sox what Pedro Cerrano was to the Indians in the movie "Major
    League".
    
    
    py

    "I say f--- you Jo-Boo, I'll do it myself !"
    
    He was too funny !!!!

    Doc, where is this stuff about Clark being the new leader?  In the Sox
    file?  I really haven't seen it in here, but I admit I've done an awful
    lot of skipping due to being out a few days, and the slow response time
    I've experienced with CAM.
    
    Lee
    
    

>    lot of skipping due to being out a few days, and the slow response time
>    I've experienced with CAM.
    

Slow response time is due to network problems north of us.  Unfortunately
we've been on our backup line a lot, and all of our outside access
is slow.

Plus, from what I've heard, there's some political stuff surrounding these
problems, so it's anyone's guess when it will all work out.....

'Saw    
    

    
    THE RED SOX PICK UP ALL THESE GREAT PLAYERS AND SIGN THEM FOR TWICE THE
    NATIONAL DEBT AND WHAT ARE THEY DOING?  THEY ARE PLAYING .500 BALL,
    THAT'S WHAT!
    
    T'ROW DA BUMS OUT!!!
    
    Dickstah
    

    	The Red Sox STINK!  Trade everybody on the team!  Fire the manager!
    What's the number for the Skydome ticket office?
    
    				/Don

      <<< Note 29.245 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "Edsels,Ishtar,DrM,'91RedSox" >>>
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't forget the Rainbow, Pro300 etc etc etc....

    They made howmany?  ~128 units
    
    ...and sold ~78!!!!
    
    
    2+ years in development????
    
    

    Re: Lynx
    We had one of those, tested most of it once the product was shipped.
    Great deal, can we have our test unit back?

    Well, the Sox are now 1 for 3 on the road, but *UNDEFEATED* at home!
    
    Projecting this out results in 27 wins away, 81 at home for a .666
    winning percentage!  :*)
    
    lEe

       And clark's down to a mere 54 HRs already!
                                      Denny

As usual Morgan left in pitcher in just a tad too long last night....DUH!

   Isn't it also true that they are one for three on the road.... and
   haven't won a game at home?
                           (just trying to help)

   Wasn't that Stottlemyer, who pitched for the Jays the son of the guy
   that pitched for the Yanks? And back in 70? 71? he traded his wife,
   house, kids, cars, for another pitcher's wife, house, kids, cars? Guy
   named Kechik, or Kechim, or somethink like that?

   Mike JN

Well, 


So far this season, I'd say Gray is holding the Caterer's Award....
If I could serve up meatballs like that, I'd be a chef in the city,
not a software engineer.....

And Morgan...was he asleep again?  Yeah, I know, I know, I saw him walking
around in the dugout, but that doesn't mean he wasn't asleep.....

'Saw

    re Mike JN:
    
    Yes, Todd Stottlemyre is Mel's son.  
    
    The two Yankees who were involved in the wife-swapping incident were
    Fritz Peterson and Mike Kekich(sp?).
    
    
    py

    How bout some details ....

    You mean Todd traded his mother?  For who?  :*)
    
    lEe

    A MTBNL.
    
    Mark.

    Clemens shuts down KC, 1-0.  Saberhagen gives up an unearned run. 
    Reardon with the save.  
    
    Mark.

    
    Clemens' ERA now stands at 0.36 after three starts and three wins.
    No one's going to convince me that he's not the best pitcher in
    baseball.  Clemens is GOD!
    
    glenn
    

    Actually Clemens had an off day today.  He walked a batter.
    
    
    py

    Yep, and he got himself indicted or charged or arraigned or whatever,
    too, for the bar brawl incident from a few months back.
    
    Quite a fun-filled couple of days for the Rocket Man.
    
    Bob Hunt

       'Psycho' Lyons is back wif the Sox!
                                       Denny

    Glenn, you bet your bottom dollar that when Clemens has an inevitable
    slump, the naysayers will be here in force.
    
    Bob, actually Clemens was indicted on a lesser charge - hindering arrest
    (misdemeaner) rather than assaulting a police officer (felony).  
    
    Mark.

 "what you talkin' about Willis...I mean Mark"....  ;^)

 mike

 Another thing about his "highness"' fast start. The umps are giving him
 a strike zone slight smaller than the Atlantic Ocean so as not to give
 his "highness" more ammo in his upcoming appeal with Fay...

 mike

Yeah, those those opposing hitters are intentionally swinging and 
missing too....

daryll

 What choice do they have Daryll? They know the ump isn't going to give them
 a fair shake...

 mike

    
    I see Mike is wielding the BIG spoon again. Stir that pot!
    
    Bull~
    

    	Hey you whineykisseyfaces ROGER CLEMENS is 3-0 against Bret
    Saberhagen.

    Yeah, the guys a bum.  The Umps are scared of him.  The Sox ought to
    trade him.  That's the ticket, send him to ah, um, er, Detroit.  Yeah,
    Detroit.
    
    lEe

       Brett evun wun too Sigh Jungs!!!

    Yeah Slasher, but what's Roger's record against Mr. Stewart?
    
    Mark.

      No, I think he means Jimmy Stewart. As far as I know, Roger never
    faced Monty Stratton :^>
    
    Bull~
    

How's the song? "Stretch the truth till it snapped?"

You guys are gettin' there. 

Yessir, Roger's got the whole umpires association in his right 
pocket. Owns 'em...

And all it took was a few choice words last fall.

Pretty soon, guys like Leary and Davis will be swearing up a 
storm and callin' all those umps real nastly names so they can 
git this preferential treatment too...

Listen to yourselves for pete's sake.

Get a grip.

daryll

    
    Daryll, I may be wrong, but I'm just assuming that these guys are 
    being facetious to stir things up.  Doesn't really matter either way.  
    I do know that in the 6-8 starts I see Clemens pitch a year from my
    seat in dead centerfield, there's no evidence of preferential 
    treatment, just great control.  It's tougher to get a true measure of 
    balls and strikes on TV because the outfield camera angles are almost 
    always to the right of the pitcher ('cept that beautiful SkyDome
    overhead shot), but being there is to see what it's all about.
    
    It's also funny how all those opposing players, being the fierce
    competitors that they are, just trudge back to the dugout with their 
    eyes lowered after Roger punches them out, and then proceed to 
    deliver all those somber but respectful praises to him in the 
    lockerroom aftermath.  I suppose it's all just part of the game, paying
    the mandatory respects to the pampered star for the good of the game.  
    They wouldn't want to be critical of Clemens or the umpires after one 
    of his masterpieces, or the commissioner wouldn't like it, and
    somebody's pay might get cut or something.
    
    glenn
      

    
    
    re:  .264
    
    Mark, you're just sticking up for Roger because you both drive
    Volvo's!

    Groaner, my car was made in the same country as your yuppie Prelude.
    
    Hope this hurts.
    
    BTW, I hope my new nephew keeps you up at night when warmer weather
    requires an open window at night.
    
    Mark.

    I drive a big burley Suburban.  A Man's Truck!

Re the Suburban:

	Alright.  I find the Suburban a tad long to handle easily around
	town, which is why I chose my mid-size pickup, but GMC makes great
	trucks......

	Manly, yes!

'Saw

>>    I drive a big burley Suburban.  A Man's Truck!

They let you buy it anyway, Mike?

>They let you buy it anyway, Mike?
    
    That says a lot since I own one and you don't.

   I find it difficult to believe that any real SPORTS Noters would be
   DRIVING Yuppie type, Quiche biting, foreign vehicles; let alone
   actually OWN one.

   I have to assume it's a mistake, and they'll be getting a Manly car as
   soon as possible.

   Mike JN

Agreed Mike JN....

If it don't say Ford, Chevy, Dodge or GMC, it ain' worth bein' in.
If it ain' got 4 Wheel Drive, you'd better have a good reason why too....

Hope this helps,
'Saw

    
    Is a company-owned Ford Taurus with the paint peeling off from the
    Arizona sun manly?  It's DARK blue, and I figure that's gotta be manly
    in Phoenix.
    
    Bruce

Manly, Bruce, very manly.

However, there are some rules to be followed when driving a company car.

First, keep a crash helmet on the front seat.  When you get into those
"situations" with other cars where you're vying for space, put it on.
It lets people know you're serious.

Second, never miss an opportunity to try to ram that car into the smallest
possible space.  Yell out the window "Outta my way, this is a COMPANY car!"
and you'll be surprised at the success you have....

Finally, install automatic door openers on all four doors.  When you're
in a position to block other cars from sneaking up beside you, flip all
the doors open.  Your car can double it's "area" that way, and take up
more space.

Finally, go everywhere as fast as possible, in as low a gear as possible.


Hope this helps,
'Saw

    Don't *ever* mention 'zero defects' and Ford, Chevy or GMC in the
    same note *ever* again.

    Mark.    

    	Hiya Bruce.  I thought I saw you on Donohue the other day when
    he was discussing the World Cup.  Was that you?  8^o
    
    	Sox are rolling.  Ellis Burks is GAWD!  For this week anyway!
    Read my lips - "ROGER didn't lie, Cooney did!"  When do the World
    Series tickets go on sale?
    
    				/Don

    
    Sorry guys, I've been working hard.  You see, the company has this
    *GREAT* incentive trip for us sales guys.  If we work REAL hard and
    make about 200% of our quota, we get to go to Palm Springs.  WOW!! 
    Imagine getting a chance to rub elbows with the only Boknows who isn't
    on crutches.  As you can imagine, after moving to Phoenix I'm really
    motiviated to work hard so I can spend a week in a desert with a bunch
    of geriatics in golf carts.  And no, if you don't make your quota, you
    don't get two weeks in P.S.
    
    Now about this Clemens thing, I think Mike Childs is onto something,
    only it's much bigger than we all thought.  I believe it has to do with
    the NEw World Order and the Trilateral Commission.  I believe Roger
    Clemens is a central character in the biggest conspiracy ever (and
    don't forget, I'm the guy who uncovered that Doc is a Celtic fan).  See
    if this makes sense:
    
    Roger and the umps, as we all know, are in cahoots.  The umps have
    given Roger a strike zone half the size of 'saw's butt (were talking
    BIG).   When the batters realize that they have this "cheeky" strike
    zone, they naturally become despondent and lethagic, and just give up. 
    Soon everyone on television will be watching our heroes, playing our
    NATIONAL pastime being despondent and lethargic.  This is just what
    Roger, George Bush, and Gorby want.  We will have no choice but to
    subconsciously emulate our heroes, so that we too, become despondent
    and lethargic.  Once this happens the New World Order can EASILY be put
    into place as none of us will care anymore.  Kinda scary, huh?
    
    Bruce  

         I know it's only 2 weeks into the season, but I might as well
    try and stir things up.
         
         How long do you bat a .250 hitter lead-off and a .100 hitter
    second? Shouldn't some thought be given to a little lineup change?
    Sure, Wade went 2 fer 3 last night and sure the Sox have won 5 in
    a row, but they're wasting Greenwell's .290+ average by having no
    one on base in front of him. The win streak are due to suprisingly 
    good pitching and timely hitting from the middle of the line-up.
    
    Bull~
    

>    only it's much bigger than we all thought.  I believe it has to do with
>    the NEw World Order and the Trilateral Commission.  I believe Roger
    
    ...and don't forget the Illuminati.

    Don't believe a word of it. It's all Neo-Fascist Dogma, designed to
    undermine the very value system, nay, the very essence of what it means
    to be a 'mercan. If you do fall for this, you might as well buy a pair
    of season tickets for the Exit 16W Nets....

    Waitaminute ... I thought there was a Vatican-Mafia connection, at least
    with the AL. The National League has a simular set up with the
    Trilateral Commission, the Yakuza (I hear Bruce is well-connected there
    - helps to have those Bay Area roots huh ?), and a possible, but
    tenuous link with the Medialian Drug Cartel ....
    
    

Actually, it's all those people who decided to read Dianetics, or Diuretics,
or whatever it's called....

 But Bull, if there were guys in front of him on base Greenwall would be
 hitting 150 not 290 so the choice is obvious. Let Greeenwall hit 290
 cause they're overpaying him....

 when does my idol pitch nexted?

 mike    

    	Tonight Mike.  You got your official ROGER CLEMENS Bosco glass
    all set?
    
    				/Don

    It pleases me to no end to realize that one of Dean's biggest bashers
    also thinks Roger Clemens is a stiff!
    
    Haw haw!!!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    Actually, the Mafia-Vatican connection comes in from another direction.  
    Consider this:  Clemens is from Texas, JFK was shot in Texas.  Everyone
    knows the CIA and the Mafia are the ones who shot JFK.  Coincidence?  I
    think not!  Clemens was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.

 Never said he was a stiff Chris, just overrated, over pampered, and above
 criticism just like Deano...

 oh I forgot both are poor misunderstood souls who are unfair attacked by
 mere mortals like myself....

 mike

    Mikey, I knew it was only a matter of time before you came around...
    
    Rog - 4-0.  30 scoreless innings...  7 k's, 0.28 ERA.  He wasn't even
    "on" lasted night.

    4-0 (2 against the Blue Jays), 1 earned run in four starts, 0.28 ERA,  
    30 consecutive scoreless innings.  As I've said before Mike, you're
    watching a HOFer and you can't even bring yourself to appreciate his
    greatness.
    
    					Steve

    Whatever, Roger won again last night.  Sox in sole posession of 1st
    place right now.
    
    lEe

    Lee,
    
    Are you a sox  fan now?  Just curious, anyways, wave the pennent
    
    flags folks the sox are in first, and its already april!
    
    
    dinz
    

    
    BTW, before I become as misunderstood as "God" & Deano, I'm a Sox
    fan and I'm not trying to bash any players. Just asking a fairly
    obvious question.
      Sure it was just a matter of time before Wade started hitting, but
    how long should Turnpike Joe have waited before doing something?
    
    Bull~
    
    
    

Dinzee you still rooting for that sorry excuse of a ball club, the Skanks?

Tsk..tsk..tsk.. those who live in glass houses and all that other malarkey.

GO RANGERS! HA HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!



Steve

Well, I for one am very pleased at the way Roger is performing this year.

The man wanted more money, got it, and now is filling the bill.  Regardless
of what anyone else thinks about him, I think he's a great pitcher.

And what's with Wade Boggs and the home runs.  Do you think Wade transfered
his sex addiction to a steroid addiction?  8^)

'saw

    hi digger,
    
    just having some fun,  you know  my style by now..  ha..
    

    > As I've said before Mike, you're watching a HOFer and you can't 
    > even bring yourself to appreciate his greatness.
    
    Heck Steve, Mike watches a *current* HOFer all the time (Dean Smith)
    and bashes on him ceaselessly.  You don't expect Clemens to get
    different treatment just cause he's destined for Cooperstown, do ya?
    
    Ha!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    RE: .303
    
    Bruce must believe in reincarnation. If memory serves me correctly
    Roger wasn't even born when JFK was shot. He might have been a twinkle
    in his mother's eye though.
    
    But it's a nice theory Bruce :-) :-)
    
    

    Just because some player is going to be a HOFer doesn't mean one has to
    like that player, or fall down over them, or j**k off to posters of
    them.
    
    Geez.  Roger is a great pitcher.  I don't think he's the greatest ever.
    I sure hope Morgan doesn't burn him out, or Roger doesn't burn out and
    slide down the stretch.  With Darwin out, the Sox really need him to
    *never* lose.
    
    re:   Chris - how the hell does Dean Smif get into the Red Sox note? 
    The only connection I can see is that the Sox haven't won since 1918,
    and Dean's only one once in 31 years.... ;-)
    
    JD

    JD, 
    
    Never said you had to like, fall down, or lacquer up over posters to
    APPRECIATE a great ball player.
    
    					Steve

    Steve, 
    
    I know.  Some folks seem to think that you have to love a guy cuz he's
    a HOFer.   That's what always got me into trouble with Bird. 
    Appreciate he's playing, just never felt he was the greatest thing
    since sliced bread.  And for that I'd get nailed.
    
    Anyway, its too early in the season for me to start proclaiming anyone
    as super.  It's a great start, but one sore shoulder or other ailment
    wipes it all out.
    
    Hey, Roger is on my DECfantasy team, so I'm happy!
    
    JD

    Roger was born in 1962, if memory serves me correctly, and his name is
    William Roger Clemens.
    
    John

    So, he shouldn't really be ROcket Roger, but something like Ballistic
    Bill, or Whiffling William...
    
    
    DJ

        
       I must have contracted something along the lines of the
    Dinsmore Kiss of Death. The minute I start pluckin' on the Holy
    Chicken Man, he wakes up.
       He's still a bum!
    
    Bull~
     

	I was listening to Eddie Anvilhaid on the way home last night and 
he decides to call up Western Union and send a telegram to Wade Boggs 
urging him to continue swinging for the fences and wanting to win, instead 
of caring about personal goals.  It was pretty funny.

				/Don

RE: Boggs and personal goals


Intersting note related....last night Boggs got his 1,800th career hit, 
it was a double to left.  When they flashed this on the diamond vision, the 
crowd gave Boggs a standing O.  The camera zoomed right in on Boggs and for 
about 15-20 seconds it seemd like he had no idea why everyone was cheering (he 
was standing on 2nd with his back to the diamond vision).  When he started 
looking around to figure out what was going on, he looked behind and you could 
see that he realized what all the noise was for.  He then gave a nice 
tip-o-the-cap to the crowd.

Didn't seem to concerned with his own hit count last night.

FWIW,
Scott

    How come we have never seen the SLasher and eddie at te same
    dinner table... Hmmmmmmm.....
    
    REK
    
    many :-}

    re .323
    
    Boggs is a good actor that's all ...

 RE:                          -< It has to be said ... >-


Yup, I would have been quite dissapointed if no one had said it.

8^)

Kind of gives you that familiar "homey" feeling, ya know.

Like coming home on a Friday night, knowing how comfortable your furniture
is, sitting down, putting your feet up on the coffee table, knowing that
first beer is going to go down so well.


If it hadn't been said, it would feel so uncomfortable in here.....

'Saw

    
    I wish Boggs would bunt more, cuz he can lay one down with the best of
    'em.
    
    Dickstah
    

 Tough to get excited about 1800 hits when 1300 of them are girly mon little
 dribblers just out of the shortstop's reach....

 Steve, it's hard to appreciate a guy who has an unfair advantage....

 mike

    
    >               -< the widest strikezone in the game... >-
    
    Who, Boggs or Clemens?  You're coming so fast with these conspiracy
    theories, mike, I can't keep up with ya...
    
    glenn
    

    Before the Red Sox conference became unreachable, I saw a note that
    reported that Vincent has upheld Clemen's suspension.  He will get a 5
    game suspension and will miss his next start.

 Cmon Glem widest strikezone is Clemens, smallest strikezone is Boggs...

 ;^)

 mike

How come we never see /Don and Eddie at the same table?

Because there both in the kitchen licking the pot!

Sorry /'er it had to be said. 8^)


Steve

>>    Before the Red Sox conference became unreachable

Yeah, sorry.  Someone pulled a cable, leaving us in a network by ourselves.

    	You mean to tell me that Roger didn't pitch a shutout again
    last night?  What a bum!
    
    				/Don

    Yeah Slasher, the bum's ERA soared to 0.73.  And he's on the cover of
    SI to boot.
    
    Mark.

    	Agreed Mark.  The guy's ERA has more than doubled in his last
    two starts.  I think the Red Sox should trade him now while they
    still can get something for him.
    
    				/Don

    I hope Mr. Clemens realizes he's keeping the juggernaut of the Detriot
    (tm?) Tigers from first place.  Sure, if Gullickson was 6-0 instead
    of 4-0, who would be winning the AL East?  
    
    I think they should ban that 'do he's got.  He's probably got some
    styling mousse in it that he's using like Gaylord Perry.  Does he
    put it on before or after his Dockers?  Slasher, whaddya think?
    
    -Walt

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but the jeans advertised in those
commercials where the guys are removing the stump and playing that
manly game of full contact volleyball are Levi's jeans.

In fact, one of them is for Levi's 540s, the jeans designed for props.  ;^)

Great photo of Roger on this week's SI cover!!!

'Saw

    Boston scored 5 in the 7th for a come-from-behind 8-4 victory.  Bolton
    finally got hit hard.  Franco's tater into the CF bleachers was a shot.
    
    Detroit and Toronto win to keep pace.
    
    Mark.

Hate those jeans with the button fly!  It's brutal when you have to go 
REALLY bad.

=Bob=

Those are the 501 button fly.  Levi's also make a 505 regular fly,
a 519 I think, and the 540s.  If you're built like a prop, the 540s
feel REALLY comfortable.....

When I was in the FD, we used to have parade uniforms with wool pants,
button fly.  I used to carry the American flag a lot, so it was really
a bitch when you had your little parchesi cup on, and then had to
dump the beers you drank on the way to the parade, just before marching.

Undo seven buttons, move that parchesi cup, take care of business,
do up seven buttson, rearrange that parchesi cup, and then run back
to the head of the unit because the Chief was having a coronary about
"where's the American flag, where's the American flag????"

After two years, we finallyg got some new pants!

'Saw

    What's this have to do with the Red Sox?
    
    Mark.

DUH!,  are you guys stupid.

The point was that our pants were SO old they were new the last
time the Sox won the series.

I mean, REALLY, you guys are slipping!

8^)

'Saw

    	Hey to me all these yuppified jeans are all the same anyhow.
     I look for the cheapest...
    
    				/Don

Shame on you Slasher!

Levi's jeans yuppiefied?  Bull hooey...

For a long time Levi's were all there were.  It's still pretty much all
I wear in jeans.  It's nice that they've come out with different styles
however, for those of us with ample gluteus maximus areas....8^)

'Saw

Kev --

I wouldn't call it a plate stacker, more like a prop butt.  8^)

It's bigger now than I'd like, but by the end of the summer it should
be better. 

Alas, I'll never have the uplifted, cut up buttocks that Franz was drooling
over in SNL this season 8^)


And if I could wish for ONE thing, for ONE day before I die, I'd like
to have, just for ONE day, **BLAZING** speed.  I'd love to know what it's
like to go one-on-one with some guy down the sideline, turn on the jets,
and watch him eat my dust.  THAT'S what I'd like 8^)


'Saw

/Don wears "Big Yank" jeans. 2 for 9.99 at Woolworths.




Steve

 Saw, at one time maybe not but now with the 5 or 6 different styles and the
 extra 10 bucks for the name Levi's classify as yuppiester leg warmers...

 and long before there was Levi's there were Wranglers....Lee's rule!!!

 mike

Oh, see I never pay extra money for my Levis.  I get them a Bob's stores,
and they're usually pretty cheap.  I mean, I could pick them up at a place
like The Gap, but there I'd pay the yuppie price...  8^)

'Saw

    Down on the farm, the PawSox swept a 3 game series with Richmond over
    the weekend. Pawtucket's pitching gave up 3 runs in 3 games. Quintall,
    just up from New Britain, pitched a no hitter Saturday. Morton looked
    good yesterday.
    
    Only homer was by Jeff Stone, the Sox' latest Chico Walker
    impersonator. Lancelotti continues to get a hit a game. Good looking
    shortstop named Valentin. Scott Cooper continues to UNIMPRESS. Marty
    Barret's younger brother, Tom, plays second for Pawtucket. Plantier
    looking polished and Vaughan looking more and more deadly. Eric Wedge,
    the catcher out of Wichita St very good defensively. Has yet to impress
    at the plate. 
    
    PawSox in first place now in IL.
    
    Rich
     

    re - last
    
    My mistake....Qunitall did not pitch a no-hitter. He gave up no runs
    and 5 hits.
    
    Rich
    

    Frank,
           Who are you kidding Bob's Stores is the yuppied Bob's Surplus
    and you know it 8*)  About the only difference in the gap and bob's
    stores is one's generally in a mall.........
    
    Jimbo
    

    Do they sell power generators?
    

    Well, Reardon was due.
    
    Mark.

No way, Jimbo.

At least not the one in Manchester.  The prices are GREAT.  (And that
my friend, helps me decide where to shop).

Jeans, as I said, are cheaper, but not only that, I can usually save
about 25% on running shoes, which really helps out.  

Besides, I didn't see any rollerblades sold in the store, so it can't
be YUPPIE.....


Re the Sox:

	So it was reardon catering lasted night???

    Not exactly catering, Saw.  Sox lead 3-2 with two outs and two strikes.
    The rest is history.
    
    Mark.

Sox?  Which ones.  I didn't see the game -- although during the power outage
they did show some of the Canada-Japan rugby international.

So, lemme get this straight.  The Sox were ahead 3-2 and Reardon served up
a homer meatball to tie the game?

Reardon doesn't usually cater, that's usually Jeff Gray's responsibility...

'Saw

> Reardon doesn't usually cater, that's usually Jeff Gray's responsibility...
    
    Gray catered in the tenth.  Not with the one big entree like Reardon, 
    but with a nice a little buffet spread nonetheless...
    
    glenn
    

I was at the game.

Wicked bizzare when the lights went out.  The guy I went to the game with told
me he was in the middle of checking out a young lady, when ZAP!  He thought he
was being taught a lesson.  

Sherm Feller, who has been the PA announcer for as long as I can remember, led
the crowd in singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game", and Ninj would have totally
lost it over all the beach balls that were bouncing around once the emergency
lights came on.

Between the blackout and extra innings, it made for quite a late night.  Lindsey 
doesn't seem to understand this, and was still up at 5:30.  Glad I
could come in to work to get some rest. ;*)

=Bob=

Hell, I could pitch better than Gray, and on a good day, I'm lucky
if I have enough control to hit the Mike Childs Definition of the
ClemensZone(tm)....

'Saw

    If I'd been there last night I could have been the "Stealth Ninja"
    
    John

    What Mac said.
    
    Gray has been *very* effective this year and if you asked Reardon, he'd
    tell you that Gray effective setup role has been the primary reason
    Reardon's been so effective.
    
    Saw, do you guys get newpapers or TV in Hebron?
    
    Mark.

    Agree that Gray has been effective, but the Sox need to take care not
    to overuse him (he had 17 appearances already going into this weekend's
    action).
    
    
    py

Mark --

Yeah, we get all kinds of TV...lots of Meningitis and Pneumonia too...


Seriously, yes, I do get TV.  I don't watch all that much TV, and I
skim the papers.  I don't read the box scores, but check the standings
most of the time.

The Red Sox games I have seen, Gray has screwed the pooch and stepped out
the door.  Admittedly, I don't watch many games -- I have to be in the
mood.  Plus, with rugby season in full swing, and things to do out and
around, I'm not home all much.

So, I haven't seen every opportunity that Gray has had.  The ones I have
seen....gee, maybe I'M the jinx....


On a related note, I did watch Sunday's game.  I thought the pitcher
that they brought in after Lamp (#50-something) pitched pretty well.
That game was funny for the comedy of errors in right field....


'Saw

    C'mon now Frank Bob's surplus was a great store when it had one
    store in Middletown now it has three and they are all certainly 
    a bunch more upscale than the original.  Bob's Surplus was the
    spags of jeans at one time and it certainly isn't that now....
    
    I can also vouch for tv in Hebron and just about everything Frank
    says about the area 8*)
    
    Jimbo

You might be right Jimbo.

But see, I've been trained not to see yuppie stuff.  When I go to Bobs
I go to one of three sections:  Running Shoes, Work Boots, or Levis Unwashed
(virgin - no acid shit or stone stuff) 540 Jeans.  Occasionally, if 
heavy sweats (like Russell or Champions) are on sale I'll stop there.
And in the winter I pick up a couple of Five Brother chamois shirt or
flannels on sale.

Then I go drool over the cashiers (attractive HS girls ) while I pay
for my purchases...

After that I'm outta there.  

'Saw

PS  On the rare occasion I've seen a quiche eater in there, I snarl and
    bump into their skrawny little rollerblading bodies 8^)

    re 'Saw, best place for low-price jeans is the Vanity Fair Outlet
    Complex (there's one in North Dartmouth, MA and one in Reading, PA). 
    Lee jeans 1/2 off *everyday*...
    
    
    py

PY --

GREAT, GREAT p-name, there dude....

And if I'm up in that neck of the woods, I'll have to try to find those
places....

'Saw

    >> I snarl and.....
    
    ;^)
    

    	Did Gorman really want Tom Gordon for Mike Marshall?  It's no
    wonder he can't trade the guy.
    
    				/Don

    Can anyone explain the dark spots on the outfield grass at Fenway? It
    looks like crap on the TV.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich, try washing your TV.  :*)
    
    lEe

    Yeah, I know, LeE. Now that I'm down south, lordy knows what kind of
    critters get on the cable wires or what varmints make nests on my screen.
    
    Seriously, looked like lots of the Fenway OF was spray painted.
    
    

    
    > Can anyone explain the dark spots on the outfield grass at Fenway? It
    > looks like crap on the TV.
    
    New sod in some spots where the grass was supposedly killed by some
    fungus.  I agree, it looks like sh!&.  Worsted I've ever seen it.  But
    it still probably plays better than last year when there was no grass
    in those same spots...
    
    glenn
    

    
    > Can anyone explain the dark spots on the outfield grass at Fenway? It
    > looks like crap on the TV.
    

	That's the Clemens' spot. Roger's doctor told him that a black spot
        in that particlar area of the field would effect the home plate ump's
        vision thus increasing Roger's strikezone....

 ;^)

    I must say I am impressed with the self-restraint of Mike C.  I figured
    he'd be in here today going on and on about Clemens' first loss of the
    season.  At the very least, I expected a mail message or two.
    
    Then again, Mike may still be recovering from the elimination of the
    Celtics...

 1 loss not enough ammo, just wait....

 ;^)

	Last week when Eddie Anvilhead had abandoned the Red Sox cause he 
said that the money spent of the free agents over the winter was the worst 
waste of money since the french built the Maginot Line.  I thought it was 
funny.

				/Don

    This, the same Addie Anvilhead, who proclaimed that this was the year
    of the Red Sox based upon these very same signings?
    
    Mark.

    Andleman isn't happy unless he has something to bitch about.  In the
    weeks that followed Mike Boddicker's defection to KC, he groused
    endlessly that the Red Sox were "futzing around", and kept saying
    "Sign Jackie Clahk no matter what the cost."  The Sox did just that
    (along with signing Egg Foo Young and Darwin), so then he changes his
    tune and says "the Sox were bidding against themselves, bla bla bla."
    Yawn...
    
    
    py

    
    Sheesh guys, it's talk radio.  Like pro wrestling, you know what's
    going on, and you get what you pay for...
    
    glenn
    

I can't believe the money anvilhead makes for being a total stiff!!
America! What a concept!



Steve

 Hey Don how'd my good buddy Clemens do the other night when he pitched I didn't
 catch the results????

    <<< Note 29.391 by AGNT99::CHILDS "I'll meet you by the 3rd Pyramid" >>>
         -< "Mike appreciate the support your Hero"-Roger Clemens ;^) >-


> Hey Don how'd my good buddy Clemens do the other night when he pitched I didn't
> catch the results????
    
    He gave up 0 earned runs and lost because his team couldn't make 2
    routine plays. 
    
    Thanks for asking.
    
    Mark.

    The 6 walks mean nothing if he had a defense.  Not a vintage Clemens
    performance, but he did pitch out a couple of jams.  He definitely
    pitched well enough to win.
    
    Mark.

Mike, Mike, Mike --

Everybody has a slightly off day from time to time...

I mean, you do, I do, Dr Midnight does, Lufay does, Schneider does, MrT does,
Bob Hunt does, Dickstah does, JD does, ACC Chris does, Dean Smith does
a lot in the NCAA Tourney, Dinz does, Slasher does.....

So, Roger had an off day...

I mean, when you come right down to it, we're all a little off.....

(Except for Hawk -- he's just a plain freakin' lunatic!)


'Saw

 but Markie if he doesn't put those guys on base they don't score right?

 Saw I realize this, also realize this is friday chopsbusting day supreme
 and when he was godly like at the beginging of the year how many barbs got
 hurled at moi? I took them in stride bid my time now it's my turn aren't
 you boys man enough to take it?

 ;^)

  

    >> if he doesn't put those guys on base they don't score right?
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall the inning they scored all the
    runs, the runners got on on errors, then got driven home by Griffette (tm)
    {I'm sick of this "Griffey-Junior" cr*p} with his GR double...
    
    Don't recall that Rocket walks occurred in that inning; he managed to
    keep those runners from scoring...
    
    _ SteveT
    

    Actually, Mike, I don't think the walks hurt him.  He pitched himself
    out of a couple of bases loaded jams.  The damage came in the 5th when
    the Sox committed 2 errors which accounted for 3 unearned runs.

 whatever......

 here you go grease your woodies   ROGER IS GAWD!!!!!

    Hey, Mike, if the best you can do is sling barbs at a guy who is
    obviously in a slump but whose ERA still hovers around 2.00 for all his
    bad work, then bring it on!
    
    glenn
    

 yeah Glenn it has been a tough hoe this year. He's been good to kids, the press
 and murder on the opposition. Not much ammo for me to use. Hopefully in time
 that will change. 

 mike

    Actually, Mike, I was expecting to hear from you after Roger was forced
    to turn in his gun permit.  After all, what the Hell does anyone need
    to own a gun for?
    
    Mark.

    >>  He's been good to kids, the press and murder on the opposition. 
    >>  Not much ammo for me to use.
    
    Not much for Roger, either, now the Framingham cops took his
    gun-permit.  (Still got his guns, though -- under his wife's name.)
    
    - SteveT, glad_to_see_Rocket_succeeding_as_a_member_of_the_human_race
    

 For some silly reason that's beyond me Mark some people actually find enjoyment
 from them Mark. I don't begrudge them that as long as they do it safely and
 store them properly. I went shooting a couple of times when I was younger
 never really enjoyed.

 Also I never heard the story until now....

    No self respectin' Texan would be caught dead without a coupla guns.

    
"My worst asset may be being around the plate too much...The harder I throw
 the harder it comes back at me"...

 my idol his highness the grand poopaa's comments after last night's loss...

 maybe he isn't even going to wait till august to swoon...

mike     

    Yo, Mike.  Hope you don't end up with Shaun Cassidy and/or Saturday
    Night Fever, on that tape...

    "Yanks Spank, Sox Stank", film @ 11.
    
    Mark.

    What's the story with Clemens?  I heard on NESN this morning that he
    may not make his scheduled start on Sunday because of a stomach ailment?
    
    
    py

    Actually, Clemens ate a triple helping of refried beans on "A Taste
    of Mexico" day i n the clubhouse Wednesday, and the beans have yet 
    to leave his system.
    
    HTH,
    
    NAZZ

	The Hit Dog was barking last night, and the rest of the Red Sox 
regulars are grumbling about playing time.  While Brunansky and Clark 
struggle to stay above the Mendoza line, it seems like Bonehaid will make 
the .305 hitting Quintana ride the pine.  The two best candidates for the 
odd man out in the rotating lineup are Bruno and the Whiffer, at least 
until one of them can prove he can hit consistently.  The Globe reported 
that Bonehaid wanted to make sure everyone knew that Carlos was responsible 
for losing the game Sunday in Baltimore despite never telling Carlos of his 
intentions of playing him in right field until game time (Quintana didn't 
even have his outfield glove with him).  The sad truth is that the only 
change that Bonehaid is capable of handling is that of the quarter, nickle 
and dime variety.  8^(

				/Don

    GONGGONGGONGGONGGONGGONGGONGGONGGONG...  You gotta laugh.

    yer right.
    For whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee, Lou and Joe.
    Boggs thinks that this is just another way the Lord is testing them.
    Don't ya luv them reborn sexahexaholics.
    
    

    
    Do we start building the coffin yet?
    
    Is this the end of Tollway Joe?
    
    While thier at it why don't they can Gorman too.
    
    Wait...if they did can Gorman, they'd lose alot of hotdog & pizza 
    revenue. He probably doesn't pay for it anyway. 
    
    
    
    Steve

       If they can Lou, does that put a Sully back in charge?
                                                 Denny

    
    Maybe we hope that Mrs. Yawkey finally croaks??
    
    
    
    
    Steve

 Is Clemens injuried? 

    
    Oil Can Boyd goes for Texas tonight as the Sox seek to extend their
    losing streak.  This could be humiliating.
    
    Dickstah
    

    
    Oh boy. Sox win 2-1 over Trash Can and the Rangers. I think the
    Rangers must have felt bad for Boston and let em have the last 
    game.
    
    
    
    Steve

    
    Are you a Red Sox fan who feels "There's nothing good on TV" (all 80
    channels) when there is no game?
    
    Are you tired of watching them lose day in and day out?
    
    Well, being a supporter of the arts, I want to pass along some
    alternative viewing that can be had FREE on one of many of your local
    public-supported stations.  PBS is good and good for you.
    
    [from the monthly PBS broadcast magazine]
    
    "The Civil War:  Part XII, The Humour"
     
    -This documentary chronicles the jokes made about Abe Lincoln from both
    sides of the Mason-Dixon line.  Highlights include Ulysses S. Grant's
    collection of whoopie cushions, hand buzzers, and fake horse doo; the
    diary of Fred Putznoop, who delivered the stand-up monologue at Ford's
    Theater the night Lincoln was shot; short-sheeting while tenting on the
    old camp ground.
    
    "Cooking with George Washington Carver"
    
    -This month covers such items as peanut pancake surprise, peanut
    5-alarm chile, peanut napoleons, and peanut sausage.  Sponsored by
    Planters(tm).
    
    "Sickening Kingdom"
    
    -This charming nature show features the eating habits of the vulture as
    we see these beautiful creatures dining on an armalillo road kill. 
    Next is a lion family as they stalk the fleet gazelle, rip it to
    shreds, and drag the flyblown remains back to the rest of the nuclear
    family.  Finally, see how mother yellow-bellied crawbills lovingly
    regurgitate half-digested insects into the mouths of their young
    waiting hungrily in their nest.  This show is made possible through a
    grant from Little Debbie Snack Cakes.
    
    "I, Pee Wee"
    
    This is a fictional account of a former shortstop turned children's
    television show host, who manages to tumble from heroism to ignominy,
    in the classic tradition of the great Greek tragedies.  Includes
    interviews with Dr. Ruth Westheimer.  Narrated by Fred Rogers.
    
    Check your local listing for times/dates.
    
    Dickstah
    

Actually, I have a woodie over the way the Red Sox are playing.

I mean, if you wanna stink up the joint, why not cheese off a really good
sulfur one.  That's what the Sux are doing.

They bought all that talent, and they put all their eggs in the basket
marked Roger Clemens.  Clark is a stiff, Morgan, well, I still haven't
figured out if this guy has a brain or where he hides it if he does...

Gorman?  Should be running a used car lot for all his savvy.  

The owners?  Hope they die, because that's what it will take to put
a winner in Fenway Park....


Like Pee Wee, who as *almost* there, the Red Sox never quite climax....



'Saw

>    Are you a Red Sox fan who feels "There's nothing good on TV" (all 80
>    channels) when there is no game?
    
       I think you meant to say: "there's nothing good on TV even when
    there IS a game on." Right?
                                     Denny

Any time the Sux play lately it's NO GAME.....


8^)

    Hey there - Lighten up willya???
    
    The Sox are playing the way they are
    
    
    
    
    	To prepare us for the Patriots!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    ta boom!!!!
    Kev
    

    I PeeWee?!?  Dickstah, you're a nut!
    
    Dan

    Just when you thought this team had made every bonehead play in the
    book, they come up with another one -- Kevin Morton The Phenom has
    *balked* in a run in this afternoon's game!
    
    2-1 Texas in the third inning.  For anyone who gives a rat's butt,
    they're giving updates in VAXWRK::RED_SOX (check the last few replies
    to topic 76).
    
    
    py

 is Roger's era over 5 yet?

 hahahahaaa 6-0 and he won't even win 20.....he who laughs last laughs
 best...

 jack clark on a 684 rbi pace hahahahahhaaa

 mike

    
    Mike,
    
    
    Its not even half of 5 and won't be all year.
    
    Tom

    Is it true that, every time the "Q" comes to the plate two times in the
    same inning against the Can in Fenway, he gets 6 RBI's?
    
    Amazing how he "always" does this.  Never failed.
    
    lEe  :*)

    
    And The Can urinating and lamenting after the game was, well, classic
    Oil Can.
    
    "I din Wan pitch here, Ah tol' 'em I din wan pitch here, Ah don' wan
    pitch here ev'agin.  They's too many bad thins here and too much for me
    to think 'bout and not cons'trate on mah pitchin."
    
    HAHAHAH.  Yeah right, Can.  Get paid a million bucks a year, then tell
    your owner/manager you don't like to pitch in certain places and may
    you please be excused from your turn in the rotation.  Get a job, fer
    cripes sake.
    
    Dickstah
    

    re a couple back, Quintana's second hit in the 3rd inning (the 2-run
    double) was off Wayne Rosenthal, who came in to relieve Boyd halfway
    through the onslaught.
    
    As for the Can, since the trade to the Rangers just last week he has:
    
    	Publicly said he'd rather be back in the National League
    
    	Demanded that the Rangers sign him for $2 million next year
    
    	Bitched about having to start in Fenway against his former team
    
    Gotta wonder how much longer it'll be before he wears out his welcome
    in Texas...
    
    
    py
                  

    The Red Sox are to Baseball, what the Whalers are to Hockey!
    
    Conan
    

No, they're not.

The Red Sox, since 1918, have come close a lot.  They were in four World
World Series, the last three out of five years(?) they played in the 
ACLS.  Of course, every remembers 1978 8^)

In the late 40's they were consistently in the hunt, often losing the
pennant in the late days of the race.


The Whalers on the other hand, have never, ever, even come anywhere near
close by the time the fat lady sings.  They've never moved out of their
division, even.

The Whalers are the ULTIMATE in mediocrity.  They have never had a superstar,
whereas cases can be made for many players who've worn the Red Sox uniform.


Nope, yer comparision falls down miserably when the light of cold
hard facks(tm) is shone upon it.  Like PeeWee when the lights came up
and the cops came by, your analogy was just a tired, spent, little deviant  8^)


'Saw

    But 'Saw,
    
    Methinks I recall you lusting for das MegaSuperstar RON FRANCIS!!
    
    
    MikeL
    
    PS. BTW, Have you read Koontz' new book "Cold Fire "?  Wifey's reading
    it now and says it's OK. Don't know the plot though.
    

    Me_thinks you defend the Red Sox with the same voracity as ACCrisp does
    UNC.  Lets see; 1 in thirty 31 versus 1 in 73,  I'd call that
    mediocrity!
    
    Conan
    

    	How many games do the Red Sox have to lose before Gorman gives
    Bonehaid Morgan a job application for the Mass Turnpike Authority?
    
    				/Don

       I don't think he needs an application /Don. They're holding his old
    job for him.
                                Denny

Nah, the Sox are different from UNC is one very special way.

YOu'll never hear a Baby Blue alum get on Dean-O.  You'll never hear 
them say He choked.

Red Sox fans (and believe me, I've been around a ton of them all my life)
feel the angst in every loss.  Then we unmercifully get on the team,
the coach (has ANYONE forgiven Mac for leaving Billy Buck in there?)
and the GM and owners.

re Ron Francis:

	Ronnie is a darn good hockey players, and a very classy act
	off the ice.  He was treated like SHIT by the Whalers.

	He is not, however, a Gretzky or Lemieux. 

	Hence, the Whalers have never had a Superstar...


My logic still holds, impeccably.


'Saw

    I'm mot talking about fan (or lemming) support just the record in the
    big dance! 8^)
    
    
    Logic is flawed in that regard
    
    Conan
    

    What's up with Jeff Gray?
    
    re Red Sox and Whalers
    
    I think if one would look at won loss stats for the 80's, the Red Sox
    would have one of the best in the American League - not THE best, but
    one of the best.
    
    'Saw is correct...the Sox have come a heck of alot closer more often
    than the Whalers ever have - even in their short history.
    
    The Red Sox won the first World Series ever played. Hall of Famers such
    as Babe Ruth, Tris Speaker, Cy Young, Bobby Doerr, Jimmie Foxx
    and Ted Williams played for the Sox. The Red Sox lost the AL pennant on
    the last day of the season in 1948 and in 1949. Only the Athletics and
    Yankees have appeared in more World Series, from the American League,
    than the Red Sox.
    
    Clearly, there is no logical comparison between the Whalers and Red
    Sox.
    
    Rich
     

    'Saw,
    I know all that stuff about Francis. Implied smileys, only busting
    your cojones. 
    Speakin of the Sox n stuff, ain't them rascally Yankee nitwits in your
    DMZ zone in Ct. actin' up a bit with the Sox being lobotomized for the
    rest of the season!!
    
    Speakin of DMZ zones. Can any of you Yank fans tell me the name of the
    jail just south of Yankee Stadium ? I took the wife to a Sox-Yankee
    game in the fall of '86 and parked near this hellhole of a prison
    There were windows high up near the top of the jail, and the prisoners
    were looking through the bars and screamin' bloody murder at the 
    people walkin' by going to the stadium. It was a riot! The fans (!??!)
    going to the stadium were more abusive to the guys in jail than
    vice/versa. The best part of that weekend was the next day when a 
    few of us ventured to Times Sq. area. On the way back to our hotel, we
    went by Madison Sq and the infamous Hotel Penta. There we saw a sight 
    that only was possible in NYC. About 20' from the entrance of the 
    Penta (in broad daylight ) we passed a a buck naked filthy dude,
    stretched out laying on the sidewalk, head crooked in palm ala Joe
    Namath, wearing sunglasses, smokin' a cigar, drinkin' a Bud, with
    a sign TAPED on his chest " HELP ME ". Priceless.
    
    
    MikeL
    

    Since when has logic appied to ::Sports?  8^)
    
    Conan
    

Seen on the tube lasted night...

As the Yanks were losing to the Athletics, fans at Yankee Stadium lit a Red Sox
hat on fire and held it up on a pole.  

The amazing thing was when that a** hole Scooter got a woodie over it.

=Bob=

re CT DMZ:

	Nope, nobody's really going bonkers over much of anything down
	here except the possibility of a_incomeTax and our lack of a
	budget.

	It's a mess, really, and I figure that no matter what happens
	the Old Chainsaw will be bendin' over as far as he can, grabbing
	his ankules, and hopin' the State at least uses Vaseline....

	Us young single folk who work hard for that paltry salaries we
	get will bear the brunt of paying for the years and years of
	fiscal mismanagement, and the year of old Rummy O'Neill's 
	administration getting fat.

	
	Other than that, not much is happening.

	The hottest SPORTS topics down here of late are the GHO, which
	was a rousing success with all the Pros getting HUGE woodies over
	the redesigned course (even I had a modest woodie), and
	the Nutmeg Games.

	The Nutmeg Games pit athletes from the four regions of the State
	East West North South, against in other, in a plethora of
	Sports.  They'll run from today through the end of the weekend...


Just in case anyone was interested....

'Saw

    	Rich, Jeff Gray had a case of JoeMorganis (i.e. a brain spasm)
    he should be all right.
    
    				/Don

    Thanks for the update, Slasher.
    
    His condition wouldn't have anything to do with overwork, would it?
    Seems every day when I check the box scores, Gray and Fossas are
    pitching. Doesn't Gray lead the league in appearances or something?
    
    Rich
    

    re .453:
    
    Through Monday's games, Gray was the AL leader in appearances with 50.
    
    Heard somewhere that Gray had a similar blackout in college, so I don't
    know if recent overwork had anything to do with it.
                                                   
    
    py

    One of the Globe writers quoted a Miami sportswriter who compiled
    winning percentages for teams in the 4 major sports (hoops, baseball,
    hockey, football) over the last 25 years (of course, the Dolphins came
    out on top).  The BoSox were in the top 10 and were in the top 3 among
    baseball teams.  The only "Boston" sports franchise that did not appear
    in the top 25 was the New England Patriots.  The article basically
    asked why Boston area fans (other than Pats' fans) were whining so much
    about the Cs, Bs, and BoSox.

    Mac, The red SOx were 25th on the list and the fifth baseball team
    listed. The Lakers were second and the Celtics were third...
    
    REK

>>    Penta (in broad daylight ) we passed a a buck naked filthy dude,
>>    stretched out laying on the sidewalk, head crooked in palm ala Joe
>>    Namath, wearing sunglasses, smokin' a cigar, drinkin' a Bud, with
>>    a sign TAPED on his chest " HELP ME ". Priceless.

That was me.  That's Digital's new travel plan.  Oh, and you also have to
deduct any money you make on your expense report.

j.

>That was me.  That's Digital's new travel plan.  Oh, and you also have to
>deduct any money you make on your expense report.


Jeff, I'm ROLLWARD!

Please don't say that too loud however.  Jack Smith with hear you,
get a woodie, and next thing you know, we'll be selling BASEstar
from the  gutter in the Back Bay area.....

    Mac,
    
    Was the author, by any chance Dave Barry??
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    re. .448
    
    
    	The jail near Yankee Stadium is the Bronx County Courthouse & Jail.
    Comes in hand when the Yankee's run a Handgun Night promotion(2.50 off
    of reserved grandstand seats when you show your handgun at the
    turnstile)

>    	The jail near Yankee Stadium is the Bronx County Courthouse & Jail.
>    Comes in hand when the Yankee's run a Handgun Night promotion(2.50 off
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    of reserved grandstand seats when you show your handgun at the
>    turnstile)



If it was in Sarasota, they'd all get arrested.....

    Thanks, REK.  I read the article while on vacation with a cooler of
    malt beverages close by.  I think I read something sometime about brain
    cells and alcohol, but I can't remember now.

    
    Just saw this article a few days late in the Boston Hearall(tm):
    
    A fan had made arrangements with the Red Sox public relations
    dapartment to present to Mike Greenwell a painting he had done of Mike
    in action.  Said it took him almost 200 hours to complete, so he was
    allowed to visit the dugout before the game and give Mike the painting
    for his 28th birthday.  Greenwell, thinking the guy just wanted it
    autographed, seemed genuinely pleased when the guy told him it was his
    to keep.  Greenwell, in turn, thanked the guy and gave him an
    autographed bat.
    
    Sometime later in the game, Mike had a bad trip to the plate (struck
    out, popped up or something), and his temper got the best of him.  So
    what does Mike do?  You guessed it.  He put his bat through the
    painting.
    
    Dickstah
    

    Can anybody tell me what Cy Youn...ER...Roger Clemens record and era
    are for this season so far?????
    
    JaKe
    

    
    From today's Boston Globe:
    
    Clemens has 12 wins, 7 losses, 2.49 ERA, 170 IP, 40 BB, 151 SO
    
    Bill K.
    
    (Damn I just blew my Read Only NOTY ;-)

    The 'BCN Red Sox funeral procession began about a half hour ago... I
    thought I heard that Peter Gammons was to deliver the eulogy???  
    sniff sniff.., hand me a hanky.
    
    Just think, they could leave Toronto 15.5 or so games back.  

I heard teh ulogy on my way to Six Smegma training in MR0. It sucked, just
like the team it was said for. Personally I think this team should be 
cremated(sp?), and thier ashes should be put on a rocket with a direct heading
for the sun.



Steve

    Ha ha ha  :*)
    
    lEe

Still a third of the season to go, eh!

What happened yesterday with the Sox, Tigers, and Jays?

tks. a lot

rick

    Sox beat the Jays, for the third straight day...
    
    Tigers lost 2 to the Yanks.

    Red Sox conference reports that the Sox have just picked up Dan Petry
    off the waiver wires.
    
    
    py

    Another GODDAM&**^%^%&$^%&*$#%^*(()_*^$^%$&%&**(*(_)^%
    Pitcher  with 20 plus years in the majors!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    
    REK

>    Another GODDAM&**^%^%&$^%&*$#%^*(()_*^$^%$&%&**(*(_)^%
>    Pitcher  with 20 plus years in the majors!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    
    REK, could you repeat that please i don't quite thing I got it all...

 ;^)

    Sheesh, all this time I thought Petry was the baby
    teradactyl who couldn't fly in "The Land Before Time"
    
    :^)
    
    Kev
    

    just don't smoke those star leaves!

  
>>>  just don't smoke those star leaves!

	Yeah save em for the Soxs they need em...

>           -< KBD's wagon foot on the pedal, hand on the emercency >-

    (-:
    
    Let's hope that the Jays lose a few more before they get back on
    track.

    
>>    Let's hope that the Jays lose a few more before they get back on
>>    track.

Oh Oh,

Karen, could you let us know what happened to Toronto, Detroit, and Boston
over the weekend?

Thanks a million

rick

    The recent success of the Sox indicates a terrible AL East rather than
    a good Boston club. When one considers that Joe Hesketh is the ace of
    the Boston staff, something is wrong.
    
    In addition, I've got to wonder how Detroit is doing so well. Neither
    the Sox or Tigers are particularly good - yet they are on the heels of
    the reeling Jays.
    
    The Indians and Orioles sip. The Yankees are rebuilding and the Brewers
    are capable of the same things the Red Sox and Tigers are. With the
    Jays finishing up their season out West, I look for Milwaukee and
    Detroit to fight it out for the AL East crown. The Red Sox will make it
    interesting but they have the weakest pitching staff in the division. 
    
    Rich
    

    The Sox still have time to take over first place...
    
    
    ...and end up 8 games out.
    
    Mark.

  The pressure of a pennant race is again upon the Red Soxs and one Roger
  Clemens can't win a ball game....

  Strange coincidence???

  I think not....

  mike

    Mike, you forgot to mention Clemen's previous performance on 3 days
    rest.
    
    I must admit I am bothered about Clemens recent propensity toward
    digging himself and his teammates a hole.  Once he gets through the
    first 2 innings he looks like vintage Roger Clemens.  During the first
    2 innings he can look like Wes Gardner.

>    first 2 innings he looks like vintage Roger Clemens.  During the first
>    2 innings he can look like Wes Gardner.
    
    Not true.  Wes was/is a smidge better looking than Roger.
    
    HTH.

       Good point about the funeral Mac. Ever see 'Night of the living
    dead'? Those zombies walked the way the Sox run the bases.
                                    Denny

    
    -1
    
    HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA(tm)
    

    don't worry though, they're just teasin' us again

    	A local station here, channel 56 obtained a home video tape from
    a Phoenix resident who happened to be recording when the
    Greenteeth/Vaugn battle erupted and it looks like old Greenteeth
    was the instigator.  Now why the club is taking Greenteeth's side
    is open to discussion, but as they say one picture is worth a thousand
    words.  The truth is the fight was better than the "Match Made In
    Hell" they had on SummerSlam.
    
    				/Don

       Yeah, this is as good a note as any for a rasslin' update. I'm sure
    REK is waiting on the edge of his seat!
                                  Denny

    Check out the Red SOx notesfile.... Greenwell should have had that
    bat he was swinging shoved up his ass!
    
    REK

I finally had a chance to see the video of the Vaughn - Greenwell match.

Mike Greenwell should be very thankful that Jack Clark was there to save his 
bacon, because if he wasn't, Mo woulda put a serious hurt on him.

Chap

       Actually, Dreamwell coulda been charged with assault for going after
    him wif that bat.
                                       Denny

    Surprised that there is no action in this note today. The Sox swept
    Seattle to remain 5 1/2 games out. They are now alone in 2nd place as
    the Tigers begin to fade and Toronto heads West.
    
    Seems Toronto will have the toughest schedule for the rest of the year.
    They get to play the AL west where it will be much tougher on them. The
    Sox and Tigers, though, get Baltimore, Cleveland and New York to play
    with.
    
    Sad really. The Tigers and Red Sox are really not very good yet they
    may very well be the teams that battle in the final days for the AL
    East title.
    
    Rich
    

    I disagree that the AL West is tougher at this time of year.
    
    Teams like Kansas City, Texas, Seattle, and California will most likely
    be looking at their rookies the last month of the season, since they're
    just playing out the string.  Only Chicago, Oakland, and Minnesota
    might play the BLue Jays tough.
    
    Also, the Sox must play five games with Detroit, who is battling them
    for second place.  ;-)
    
    In order for the Sox to win the pennant, if Toronto only goes 12-11,
    the Sox would have to win 20 of 26 games.  A very long shot.
    
    NAZZ

    Don't care, Nazz. Kansas City is ALWAYs tough as is Texas, at home.
    Perhaps California is throwing in the towell but Seattle is still young
    and hungry and will play their hearts out. And, with their pitching
    staff, they are still capable of going on a 8-10 game streak.
    
    Toronto has shown in the past a propensity to play tight and blow it.
    They don't know how to kick a guy when he's down. After a long year,
    they will finish out on long plane rides to the West coast and the
    soutwest. It will take it's toll.
    
    Yet, I still believe Toronto is the best in the East and deserves the
    title. I just can't look at the Tiger and Red Sox lineups and swallow
    the fact that they are still in it this late. Give the Tigers a couple
    more pitchers and, yeah, I'd like their chances but Frank Tanana? Gimme
    a break. The Red Sox sputter along with medicre pitching after Clemens
    and Reardon. Joe Hesketh? Nah..
    
    Rich
    

    The Sox are 9-4 against Toronto in head to head competition.  Who is
    the better team?
    
    The Seattle players are trying to be the first Mariner team to post a
    winning record in the franchise history.  Don't look for them to roll
    over.  They have also been a streaky team this season.  They just
    finished a cold streak...

    it's not worth the stress

    The Yankees are 6 and 1 against the Red Sox...
    
    Who is the better team?
    
    REK

    How 'bout that crowd in Cleveland lasted night? Over 1,600! Wow!!!!
    Thos Celeveland fans really know how to support a team, huh?
    
    Rich
    

    Rich, the Jays are over .500 vs. their remaining opponents, while the
    Sox are something like 12-17 vs. their remaining opponents.
    
    Sox are toast.
    
    Mark.

Mark, you have it in -1

The Jays are .600 against the teams that they will play their remaining games:

            W L
Minnesota   4-2
Oakland     3-3
Seattle     6-1
California  2-4

Totals     15-10

The RedSlobs are done like dinner!

Rendevouz in the Dome in October!

rick

    
    >    How 'bout that crowd in Cleveland lasted night? Over 1,600! Wow!!!!
    
    And the real funny part is that they had a special promotion where all
    seats were $3.00.
    
    Can you imagine going to a baseball game and having the guy at the
    ticket window ask "Where would you like to sit?"
       "Oh, how 'bout the first row between home plate and the dugout?"
       "Visitors or home dugout, sir?  O.K., here's your four tickets, that
    will be $12.00, sir."
       "Thank you.  Oh, while I'm here would you mind validating my parking
    ticket?"
       "Certainly, sir."  "Now," he says as he closes the ticket window and
    places the 'back in 5 minutes' sign in front of it, "I'll show you to
    your seats.  Would you care for a hot dog or beer or anything?  I'll
    go get them for you if you like.  A blanket perhaps?  It gets very
    drafty in this place.  If you need anything, I'll be back in my ticket
    booth."
    
    Dickstah
    

    Yeah, Dickstah, I can picture that scene. 
    
    But can you imagine what it feels like to PLAY in a stadium that size
    in front of such a small crowd? Geez, it must be humiliating.
    
    This is my opinion but I feel that a major league team should draw at
    least 15,000 for home games no matter where they are in the standings.
    The Indians played a competitive game lasted night yet hardly nobody
    noticed. If there is a franchise primed for a move, it is Cleveland.
    And I would have no sympatyhy with anyone who cried about them leaving.
    
    We never had less than 5,000 people for a Richmond Brave game this year
    and we had the worsted team in the IL. We'd kill for a major league
    team as would scores of other cities.
    
    I'm all for tradition and everything but keeping baseball in Cleveland
    is apparantly only important to the commish's office.
    
    Rich
    

    Blaming the fans for management failures is bogus at best.  Cleveland
    has been dismal for years and years.  Is this the fans fault?
    Ticket prices have been escalating for years, ballplayers have become
    more arrogant, distant, and disloyal, yet the fans are still supposed
    to trot-on-out to the ballpark to root on the home team.
    
    Bah.  It's *good* that Cleveland isn't drawing this year.  If this
    happened more places maybe we'd actually see a tappering off of
    salaries.  As it stands today, I can *barely* afford to take my family
    of 4 to a Braves game a couple_times a year, and we've got some of the 
    most reasonable ticket prices in either league.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 well if you'd stop wasting your money on the poop sheet, carolina blew,
 tarheels forever. etc. you'd be able to afford take your family more
 often...

 oh I forgot when you can't win championships you have to get your jollies
 over the recruiting war stories...

 ;^)

    Chris -
    
    I CAN'T BELIEVE YOUR WHINING ABOUT BRAVES TICKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Since most contributors to this file are from New England and Colorado,
    you can appreciate this.
    
    2 weeks ago I took my wife and 2 kids to Atlanta-Fulton County. Paved
    parking lots adjacent to the ball park (which is a couple 100 feet from
    the Interstate with it's own ramp) with a cost of $3.00. 
    
    On Tuesday nights there is a promo by Kroger supermarkets that gets you
    one free upper deck ticket for each one you buy. Upper deck tickets are
    $6.00. Bought 2, got 2 free. Total cost (excluding snacks) was a
    whopping $15.00!!!!! And, if we wanted to sit in CF, the cost is $4.00
    per adult and $1.00 for a child!!!!!
    
    Wow, Chris, now THAT's some serious cash there!!!!
    
    
    Back to Cleveland......Teams left Boston, St. Louis and Philadelphia
    and they averaged more people than showed up at Cleveland last night.
    
    Point is, I grew up in a major league market and I miss the excitement
    of having major league teams in my city. You tend to take it for
    granted when it's in your back yard. Well, there are many other cities
    that can support a team and, if Cleveland's support was eveidenced
    lasted night, then I hope the owners take 'em outta there.
    
    You are correct, Chris, about over-inflated egos, salaries, etc. But
    don't blame the fans for that. Gate receipts don't come close to paying
    the mega salaries.
    
    Rich
    

Let's not draw too many conclusions about Cleveland from lasted night's game. 
It was a makeup scheduled 2 weeks ago.  This is a park that has a hard time
drawing 15,000 anyway.  A short-notice, Monday game long after the home team is
out of it is bound to have a poor turnout.

j.

    
    RE: Rendevous at the Dome in October
    
    
    Which Dome? Skydome or MetroDome? 
    
    

    Has there been a play-off series that both teams play indoors?
    
    
              REK

    Wasn't there the threat of rain in Cleveland last night also?

    There was a threat of rain last night in Cleveland, no baseball playoff
    series has been completely indoors, a late scheduled makeup game will
    have trouble drawing (a mid-week, afternoon makeup game between the Sox
    and Tribe 2 weeks ago drew 14K in Fenway Park) and I believe that once
    Cleveland gets its new stadium, support for the Indians will go up. 
    Between a newer ballpark that's smaller (the sheer size works against
    drawing a good crowd) and situated away from the ocean *, it will have
    to be a more pleasant atmosphere for baseball than exists now.
    
    John
    
    * - refers to the famous Oil Can Boyd quote from 1986, when he said in
    reference to a fogged-out game in Cleveland, "That's what you get when
    you build a ballpark by the ocean."

    Rich -
    
    About Cleveland.  With the talk of Seattle moving, despite drawing
    ~2,000,000 a year - it seems wierd that Cleveland isn't in trouble.
    
    Do you know why?  Corporate support, that's why.  Cleveland is going to
    get a new stadium (or its in the works) - they aleady have sold out all
    luxury boxes, etc, to local corporations.  Sure, no one from the
    corporations may go to a meaningless game in September - but that's the
    bottom line.
    
    Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.
    
    JD
    
    PS - on another, general topic - I'm sick of Florida and some other
    places constantly whining about wanting a pro team - so they build a
    stadium and try to steal established teams - ah yes, America at its
    best.  Covet the neighbors goods.  Grease the palms.  As far as I'm
    concerned, I hope all those cities NEVER get a pro team - let 'em cry
    in their milk of magnesia...
    
    

JD -- Voice your displeasure.  Send them a picture of Burgess Merideth!!!!!!

    JD,
    
    re your displeasure with Florida...
    
    From the way you describe it, you would also have had a problem with
    Milwaukee in 1952. They had a stadium and "whined for a team". The
    Braves drew less than 200,000 in Boston that year and went to Milwaukee
    which supported the heck out of them till they left.
    
    I have no problem with the Braves leaving Boston. I DO have a problem
    with the Braves leaving Milwaukee or the Colts leaving Baltimore or the
    Raiders leaving Oakland or the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn. In all the
    latter instances, those teams had broad support. Yet greed by the
    owners caused them to jump ship and slap the very people who had helped
    make those franchises great.
    
    re Cleveland
    
    For a blue collar town, just how much money can be generated for luxury
    boxes? Cleveland, like most midwest/northeast cities, is in serious
    financial problems and industry is hurting, too. I also don't buy the
    makeup game excuse. Cleveland has radio stations and TV stations and a
    newspaper. If the city had real baseball fans, they would have made it
    a point to KNOW there was a game lasted night and support their team.
    
    I am sick and tired of places that have franchises that do not support
    them. Soryy John H. but the Patriots are in this category. New England,
    based on it's past support, condition of stadium access, etc, doesn't
    deserve a pro franchise. They have had years to clean up their act and
    still haven't. I can support a loser that tries. A trip to a game in
    Tampa or Green Bay or Atlanta is an enjoyable experience. Not so in
    Foxboro. Lousy parking, the drunkest fans in the NFL.....take the green
    glasses off and the place is a sty.
    
    Well, how 'bout dem Sox? Playing the Tigers tonight. Rocket vs the
    Banana Man.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich -
    
    I guess being in Seattl now, I'm sick of hearing about St. Pete's and
    other money grubbing Florida teams whining and crying about not having
    a team.  Tough.  They have spring training (and are stealing away the
    Cactus League) - hey the folks in Billings, MT would probably love a
    team - but not everyone can have one.
    
    And Seattle falls into the category of a team getting fan support.
    
    About Cleveland - I report what I read.  It was in the paper out here
    in one of the zillion "Will the M's leave town for Florida" stories.
    Remember, though depressed area, the Browns sell out every game, and
    that's a lot of folks.  The article mentioned that Cleveland not only
    receives lots of corporate sponsership, but just as important, the
    Indians receive Civil support from the local governments.   If the
    Indians didn't, don't you think the wolves from Florida would have
    already been gnawing at the Indians extremities??
    
    JD

    Rich Brake - 
    
    While this more appropriately belongs in the Patriots topic, I will
    reply here.
    
    I've never said that the Patriots must stay here regardless of the
    level of support.  I feel the team must be a winner to be supported,
    unlike the Bruins and to a certain extent, the Celtics and Red Sox.  I
    think it's wrong for the team to be moved if it's not winning because a
    losing team will not be supported here.  If the team is winning and
    isn't being supported, then ownership is 100% justified in moving the
    team.  It would be wrong for Kiam and company to have not put an effort
    in at all to turn the team around.  He could very easily have said
    "f**k it, I want this team somewhere else, I'll let it stink until the
    lease is up and then I'm out of there."  To his credit, he's not doing
    that.  Things are getting better and I think anyone who has been to a
    game this year will say that - both on the field and in the stands. 
    Sam Jankovich spends most of his time during games walking through the
    stands and around the stadium instead of sitting in the press box
    because he wants to find out what's right but more importantly what's
    wrong and how to fix it.  I give him genuine credit for that.  If the
    team was going to move when the lease is up, he wouldn't be doing that.
    
    Bottom line for me is this:  If the team cannot be turned around and
    moves I will be very, very upset because I'll then believe that not all
    possible will have been done to keep it here.  If the team is a winner
    and isn't being supported, I will be very disappointed but I will agree
    with the decision.  The team isn't being run for my benefit, it's a
    business.
    
    John
    
    

    Perhaps we should rename this: The Boston Red Sox Junk Note ^8)
    
    JD - Speaking of Seattle - I read this morning that the Seattle City
    something or other voted 7-3 in favor of buying 200,000 seats for
    remaining Mariners' home games. Something about an attendance clause in
    the lease. Now THAT is a city that wants a team, although I'm not so
    wild about tax $$ going for that purpose.
    
    re John - Whoa, Ninja, Whoa......I agree with everything you said in
    .525. My position is that, over the 30 years the Patriots have been in
    Boston (New England), it is my opinion that they have treated their
    fans like dogs. The facility, parking, etc. I, like you, appreciate NFL
    football and will support it as long as the experience is an enjoyable
    event - win or lose.
    
    re RED SOX - How 'bout dat Roger Clemens. Two hits the Tiggers and ole
    Ellis cums out of a hole and clears the bases with a 3 run double. Heck
    of a pitching exhibition last night by the Rocket. 
    
    Now da Sox is justed 4 games behind the Jays (3 out in the loss
    column). Da Sox is also 13 1/2 games ahead of da Yanks. Da Sox will be
    in the Bronx this weekend for a big series. 
    
    Rich
    

    Rich, I'm in a lousy mood this morning and what you said got to me.  It
    made me feel like I felt the New England area had a civic duty to
    support the New England Patriots.  It doesn't - it has to be earned.
    
    Truce?  And now back to the Sox?
    
    John

    Just a quick note to add to this Pats thang...
    
    It's funny you said that, John (.527).  I work in Corporate Employee
    Services and the Pats organization called me and wanted me
    to carry tickets within DEC.  To make a long story short, the deal they
    were offering stunk and I told them, 'Sorry, no can do.'  I was then
    told by this person that Digital and other business in the area had an
    obligation to (financially) support pro sports teams because that would
    make your company more attractive to potential employees from
    out-of-state.  I didn't buy it.
    
    Let's just say that my response to him was polite but to the point. 
    8-)
    
    Cath 
    
    

    I don't know who talked to you but guess who told the team how to reach
    Employee Services ....

Hal Litelocks???

    Dr. Midnight???

    DENNY and ?DON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    REK

    So anyways guys and gals, why for no Sox chatter here? Why didn't
    sumone tell me to shaddup 'bout the Patriots?
    
    This iz September and da Boys uv Summer in Fenway are making it
    interesting............again!!!!!
    
    JD - Where you Bee? Cum on there, fella,. and get on this here wagon.
    Markie, Saw-Man, Hawkster, /Donbo.../..come on boys, where's da spirit,
    huh?
    
    Will the Rog-man win 20? Is he in line for the Sie Yung? Will Margo Man
    win the batting title? How do da Boston fans feel about benching Bruno
    for the man from Plantier's Peanuts? Should Clark bar hang 'em up and
    should Joe Bore-gan play Mo evry day?
    
    Where's da chatter? 4 games out, gang.....
    
    
    Now dat I have single-handedly authored the kiss of death to them, on
    with the festivities.
    
    Rich
    

    Rich -
    
    Perhaps you don't remember - but I was very optomistic this spring - to
    the point that folks wanted me to start peeing in the little cup.  I've
    felt this was the Sox to lose.  So this doesn't surprise me. However, I
    feel that the Tigers will win tonight - just a gut feeling.
    
    JD

They are four games out.

But I don't think they can do it.  I think they had one too many slumps
early on after the All-Star Break.

Like a marathon runner who slows his pace due to cramping at mile
15, and the hell-bent-for-leather kick he puts on to try and win comes
up short, so to will the Red Sox come tantalizingly close, only to 
be a few seconds behind at the tape.


For the Sox to take the division, the Jays would have to stage one of 
the biggest choke jobs MLB has ever seen (or the Sox would have to 
be invincible...)


'Saw

	Rich the last time I was on a Red Sox bandwagon it got four flats 
and a Boston metermaid cited it.  The Sox management has to be drooling 
over what Plantier is doing because they can bench Bruno and not have to 
guarantee the third year of his contract.  Remember the Who song "Won't get 
fooled again"?                  

				/Don

    
> The Sox management has to be drooling 
> over what Plantier is doing because they can bench Bruno and not have to 
> guarantee the third year of his contract.  Remember the Who song "Won't get 
> fooled again"?                  
  
    Unfortunately, even though Bruno has deserved to be benched for
    non-performance (a fact that even he has graciously admitted to), it 
    appears that with late-inning defensive appearances Sox management is 
    going to do the exact opposite and allow him to reach his incentive 
    guarantee.  For all their stupidity, being tight-fisted has never
    really been one of the Sox' faults...
    
    glenn                                        
    
                                    

    JD - I know,,,I remember what you said in the spring and I wuz one of
    the sceptics. But don't this make you just a little bit excited? I'll
    tell ya, the woodie that crept up lasted nite whilst I wuz watchin'
    Rojah was incredible. 
    
    /Don - Shame on ya, my lad. Ya follow the Brunze and da Celts yet ya
    let the Olde Yowne Team fend fer itself in September. I've been burned
    as many times, son, but sumthin' keeps calling back. "Rich, Oh Rich,
    bend over Rich...."
    
    'Saw - Come on Man. The Mets and Yanks are out of it. The Phillies and
    Orioles sip. Da Only team in the northeast dat has a chance is the
    beloved Sox. Stand up on your box and beat yur manly chest and cheer on
    dem Sox. Get your Matt Young poster out from behind the wall and hang
    it up for all to see and adore. Matt Young ROOLZE.
    
    Everyone now, get ready nexted time Luis Rivera comes to da plate....
    "Looo-IE, Looo-IE,  Looo-IE". 
    
    How 'bout dat Tony Pena fella. What a many type guy!
    
    Are we all THAT gun shy? ........... I know..............my name is Dan
    Schneider. The Yanks could eat the Sox for breakfast lunch and dinner.
    That silly bandbox the Sox play in would not even pass as a dugout for
    the great Yankees. Wade Boggs has no woodie. Never has.Never will. He
    does, however, survive thanks to the park effect. Wade could not play
    for any other team. If Wade played in the national league he would not
    have had one hit, ever.
    
    Now!!!! Juices running now? 
    
    Rich
    

Rich, you slay me... 8^)

I'd *love* to see the Sox do it.

But you know I was thinking last night, what would I *ever* do if the
Sox were to win all the marbles.  I mean, I have NO idea?

I'd be like speechless (a condition which the Chainsaw is *rarely* in)
and I'd be like the high school kid who suddenly realizes his fantasy
and has a live, naked [enter Supermodel name of choice] in front of him
begging him for sex.

No, I'd rather be safe and secure in my own little niche right here, knowing
the Sox are going to do an el-foldo just like always ;^)

'Saw

    Jd, I have to belly up to the bar and order a heaping plate of crow. 
    I predicted in pre-season that the middle and short relief were
    questionable and that the Sox would fail as a result.  
    
    Gray, Lamp, Fossas and Reardon have proved me wrong.
    
    Mark.

    A plane is flying over our Richmond office right now. It's writing
    words in the sky. Lemme see, it says:
    
    "Yanks still #1. Love, Jim Wardle"
    
    Plus, I just got a strange voice mail message:
    
    "Rich, pacKIt iN, (no kidding, voice mail can differentiate between
    upper and lower case) BuB. Sox Blow bIG tIme. YAnks ArE GrEaT. JiM
    DINSmoRe."
    
    Now Red Sox Fans. R We Going to stand for this? Huh? Of course not.
    Slasher, you are in charge of counter Wardle actions, see? 'Saw, you
    have a court order to tap my phone and tape any more incoming messages
    from JiM DInsMore. Mr. Boston has come out of retirement and will be
    releasing his "Get In Shape Red Sox Fans" video nexted week. JD - You
    are head of our West Coast bureau. That makes you the West Coast Bureau
    Chief. You get a secretary and a FAX machine. Your task is to ensure
    that Twin Peaks remains calm.
    
    Markie - Where are ya, lad? Still pissed at me for saying Bob Seger is
    GAWD!!!??? Well, let's put silly things behind us. You are assigned to
    watch Bob Gamere. make sure he doesn't jog around the Fenway after dark
    Bad publicity, ya know.
    
    Hey Hawkman....what gives? Get in touch with your bested friend, Jeff,
    and start writing letters to the editor of every major paper in America
    proclaiming Red Sox Resurrection day.
    
    How's about our Southwest Bureau Chief Mike Heiser? Come on, young man,
    stand up and be counted. You need to ensure no insurgents cross the
    border and bolster the Blue Jays roster. And where is Bruce May? Still
    in the Bay? We need you to root on Oakland and sabotage Toronto's water
    supply when they play in Oakland. You are also encouraged to praise
    Jose's pecs loudly in front of the Jays' dugout.
    
    Come on Guys, Schneid, JimWa and Dinz have initiated an insult to our
    manliness. We need to respond and stand up tall behind our Fenway
    heros.
    
    Rich
    

    Mark -
    
    THe relief has been a pretty good.  I thought that Darwin and Young
    would make a difference - but its really been guys like Fossas and
    Hesketh who have done it.
    
    Rich -
    
    Y'know, I have a feeling that the Sox can do it - but I admit my
    pre-season optimism is dampered byu one thing.  I call it the "Red
    Sox/Boston so close, so far" syndrome.  The way I see, the Sox end up a
    game, maybe 3 behind the Jays.  The ol' false sense of security creeps
    in.  All trades are quashed, cuz the Sox won't give up on anyone cuz
    they got so close.  The No Riskers will win out.  The team will be the
    same as this year.  The same questions.  ANd management and the fans
    will hope they can crank the ride up again for a decent season.
    
    I really felt before the season that this was THE season for the Sox to
    do it.  I also felt that if they didn't do it, that they should
    dismantle and try to build another team.  As I've said, I'd like them
    to get radical - go for speed and defense and pitching.  Become the
    AL's answer to the Cards of the 80's.  That won't happen, however.
    
    I do fear, Rich, another season where the Sox provide excitement, some
    entertainment, but aren't on the tube come the end of October...
    
    JD

    
    > The team will be the
    > same as this year.  The same questions.  ANd management and the fans
    > will hope they can crank the ride up again for a decent season.
      
    Not with Phil Plantier and Mo Vaughn around for the whole season.  My
    feelings are that these two are the real thing, and if management had
    gotten them up a little bit earlier when the offense was positively
    sucking wind behind the likes of the underachieving Bruno, Burks,
    Clark (for large chunks of the season), et al, things might be a 
    little bit different right now.
    
    But other than that, I agree with you, JD, the Sox need to make some
    moves.  I'd be shocked if they didn't, though-- Gorman has already
    acknowledged the overload at the outfield/1B/DH positions with the 
    arrival of the two kids and has publicly stated that the issue will 
    be taken care of this winter.  My only concern is that they make the 
    *right* decisions.  The Sox have been active with trades in the past 
    and badly burned by stupidity in the pre-Gorman years (Sparky Lyle, 
    Cecil Cooper, Ben Oglivie, Carlton Fisk) just as much as they can be 
    criticized for inactivity in the Gorman era.  I can just envision them
    pulling a real boner like deciding that Wade Boggs is the problem with
    the team or something like that, too.  I can definitely live with a 
    trade of Greenwell, Quintana, or even Burks (would have to get a CF in 
    return) for fair value, though... 
    
    I can't see where you can say that the Sox have been complacent over at
    least the past few off-seasons.  There have been some important players 
    shuttling in and out of here recently, mostly for the worst, in my 
    opinion (Hurst, Boddicker, Lee Smith).  The wisdom of some of the 
    decisions is certainly open to question.  The Matt Young decision
    probably fills out the top five slots on that list.
    
    Bottom line is that I give them 4-5 years where they can still put a
    solid team around a still-dominating Roger Clemens and make a run at 
    it.  If it doesn't happen in that time period, there's going to be 
    rebuilding whether people want it or not... 
    
    glenn
    

>    How's about our Southwest Bureau Chief Mike Heiser? Come on, young man,
>    stand up and be counted. You need to ensure no insurgents cross the
>    border and bolster the Blue Jays roster. And where is Bruce May? Still
>    in the Bay? We need you to root on Oakland and sabotage Toronto's water
>    supply when they play in Oakland. You are also encouraged to praise
>    Jose's pecs loudly in front of the Jays' dugout.
    
    Bruce is in the desert down the highway from me.  I've called Ft.
    Huachuca and alerted the border patrol, but all I heard on the other
    end was cynical laughter.  I love the BoSox, but have been jilted one
    time too many.  If they win the division, fine.  Then they will just
    lose to the Twins (who seemed to manhandle them a few times this
    summer.  I remember scores like 19-2.)
    
    Mike

    Sox are toast.
    
    Mark.

    	Forget it Rich!  I don't care if the sad Yankees sweep the Sox.
    The Red Sox are a team for New England's yuppies, kind of like the
    Celtics.  The Broons and Pats are the only teams left for us New
    England fans who still wash our hands with Lava soap (i.e. a main's
    main type of team).
    
    				/Don

    4/30	Boston 7	at Minnesota 5
    5/1		Boston 0	at Minnesota 1
    5/7		at Boston 3	Minnesota 9
    5/8		at Boston 8	Minnesota 3
    7/11	Boston 3	at Minnesota 7
    7/12	Boston 4	at Minnesota 5
    7/13	Boston 1	at Minnesota 3
    7/14	Boston 5	at Minnesota 3
    7/18	at Boston 3	Minnesota 11
    7/19	at Boston 2	Minnesota 3
    7/20	at Boston 0	Minnesota 8
    7/21	at Boston 1	Minnesota 14
    
    Record:  Boston wins 3, Minnesota wins 9, with Boston winning 2 on the
    road and 1 at home.
    
    Runs:  Boston 37 (17 home, 20 road), Minnesota 74 (24 home, 50 road).
    
    Stick a fork in 'em.  They're done.
    
    John

    Well, now, such sceptecism. The Sox losted last night after a supreme
    effort by Matt Young got wasted. Evryone's talking defeatism. Hell,
    team, they shoot you for that in Soviet Georgia. Markie, you don't even
    get a blindfold and a slice of pizza.
    
    Now Joe Bore-gan's band moves into the Bronx asylum. That Noriega
    lackey, Pascal Perez goes for the Yanks against that wholesome lad Mr.
    Morton whose sister is a nun and whose father is is sister's father.
    Yankee Stadium in September, me boys. Let's get behind 'em.
    
    I'm not askin' for a Denver Bronco type crowd or a brie-eatin', BMW
    drivin', Muffy-datin' gang of Docker-wearin' YUPS. Bring back the
    Narragansett drinkin', Yaz bashin' gang of old and cheer this group on.
    
    Rich
    

    JD and Glenn,
    
    My serious hat is on. In all candor, the Sox don't look to be making
    the kinds of changes, from within, that will transform them into the
    kind of team we all know is needed for the fuiture. Pawtucket led the
    IL in HR's and was last in stolen bases. I saw them a couple of times
    and they played old style Red Sox baseball....station to station.
    
    There are no phenom pitching prospects on the farm so any help for
    Clemens will have to come via trade.
    
    Pawtucket had the oldest team - age wise - in the IL. Lancelotti and
    Pankovits are over 30. So is Jeff Stone, I believe. Mickey Pena has yet
    to prove himself and Zupcic is a big guy who reminds me of Bob Allison.
    Lot's of power potential with less than average speed. And he started
    in CF for them.
    
    I would love to see some creative trading this winter. I would keep
    Burks but have Quintana, Greenwell and Brunansky on the table.
    Greenwell and Carlos are both .300 hitters so there has to be some
    value there. I would like to see them get 1 quality starting pitcher
    and a quality OFer with speed out of that deal.
    
    One thing to remember when discussing the Sox, though. Joe Carter and
    Ozzie Smith both said that Boston is one place where they wouyld NOT
    allow themselves to be traded to because of the racial climate in the
    city. This is significant becuase there are likely many other quality
    players who feel the same way.
    
    The Sox don't teach speed in the minors. There is no great pitching on
    the farm. Sox management seems to be committed to the same style of
    play that has characterized the team for the past umpteen years. It
    fills the stands and has produced competitive teams for decades.
    Perhaps WE are wrong, who knows?
    
    But, in any event, they are my Sox and I'll be behind them 100%. 
    
    Rich
     

 Soxs are out of it. How else can one explain Clemens actually winning games
 in September?

 

    re .551:
    
    > I would love to see some creative trading this winter. I would keep
    > Burks but have Quintana, Greenwell and Brunansky on the table.
    
    Sox could've had Pete Harnisch for the Q last winter.
    
    Quintana and Greenwell could bring a decent return, but the Sox wouldn't
    get a box of Cracker Jacks for Bruno with his salary.
    
    
    py

    re <<< Note 29.547 by SASE::SZABO >>>
    >>                  -< The man was definitely racin'! >-

    >>Rich, send me up a handful of whatever it was that got you going
    >>yesterday afternoon...  :-)
    
    >>Hawk
    
    Hawk - it's called keg shine. Friend of mine in Lilburn, Georgia gave
    me some. Said, "Son, Ya cain't say ya been to Dixie iffin yan haven't
    slugged Keg Shine."
    
    It is brewed like moonshine but they put the nectar in a barrel in the
    ground for a few days to "add color". Stuff would put hair on Heather
    Locklear's chest.
    
    Rich
    

    One reason the Sox don't have much pitching on the farm this past
    season was they were put right into Fenway with injuries to Darwin and
    Young.  The Sox had at least 3 teams in their farm system compete in
    the post season.  They can't be doing too bad down there.
    
    I think the collar is tightening around the collective neck of the Blue
    Jays.  They dropped their second straight at home against Seattle.  If
    the Sox had been able to figure out that "mediocre" Tiger pitching
    lasted night, we could be looking at the Jays from only 3 games out.

    Glenn -
    
    I hope Plantier is the real thing - I haven't had a chance to see that
    much - since the SOX aren't on much out here.  I'd like to see
    Greenwell and Q traded for some pitching - or for a standout all around
    infielder - but there aren't too many of them on the block.  
    
    And yes, the Sox have made moves the last few seasons - but I guess
    what I meant is the moves seem to be same old Sox type moves - even
    though I thought Jack Clark was going to be a good pickup - someone to
    supply a real power threat and get 100+ ribbys.  
    
    JD

   > Forget it Rich!  I don't care if the sad Yankees sweep the Sox.
   > The Red Sox are a team for New England's yuppies, kind of like the
   > Celtics.  The Broons and Pats are the only teams left for us New
   > England fans who still wash our hands with Lava soap (i.e. a main's
   > main type of team).
    
    Sorry, Slasher, but all the yuppies jumped off the bandwagon after the 
    horrendous July.  The bleachers have been seriously de-populated the
    past few weekend series.  I've noticed a sudden absence of many so-called
    "regulars", with a lot of new faces out there all of a sudden.  Rest
    assured, if the Sox magically back into the playoffs or something, I'll
    see all those old faces out there again...
    
    I for one have not given up.  I don't predict that they're going to
    pull it off, but I'm not so serious about it that if they flop again
    I'll be too proud to watch the train wreck, either.  I'm just going
    to sit back and enjoy.  With *13* straight games against New York and
    Baltimore alone, you can't say it's over yet...
    
    glenn
     

    	Dandy Don Merideth said it best... "Turn out the lights, the
    party's over"
    
    				/Don

    Peanuts, Popcorn, Cold Beah Heah............................
    
    Grab a seat and enjoy as the Red Sox continue their assault on the
    Toronto Blue Jays. 
    
    Lasted nite the Sox jumped on Pasqual "Little Manny" Perez. Gator
    Greenteeth came through as did the Peanut Man. Mr Morton looked sharp
    thru 6. Greenteeth also stole his 14th base of the season. Donbo Hair
    hit a meaningless home run as Joe Boregan used plenty of his bench in
    the 7-2 victory of the Yanks.
    
    Now Mr. Gardiner (not a relation to Wes "Jaws" Gardner) goes to the
    hill. 
    
    Could this be a Braves/Red Sox October? Ah, the words just trickle from
    the mouth like foam from a Krueger Cream Ale. Baseball in it's purest
    sense, on natural grass, the Braves and Red Sox.
    
    Go Sox
    
    Rich
    

    Did Toronto win last night or were they idle?

    They had the nite off....
    
    REK

    Mike is taking the bait. FINALLY, a lad with the guts to ask a
    pennant-race-related question.
    
    My hat's off to ya, Mike ma lad. Welcome aboard. Have some peanuts and
    a cold beah. Sox in NY tonight while the Jays are entertaining the
    Atletics. Dave Stewart going for LaRussa's squad of manly men against
    that gaggle of domers.
    
    Rich
    

                            
    > My hat's off to ya, Mike ma lad. Welcome aboard. Have some peanuts and
    > a cold beah. Sox in NY tonight while the Jays are entertaining the
    > Atletics. Dave Stewart going for LaRussa's squad of manly men against
    > that gaggle of domers.
    
    Like they say in that ripped-off Old Milwaukee commercial featuring 
    the Swedish bikini team and other ridiculous accoutrements, it most
    certainly does get better than this!  This is a real, honest-to-
    goodness pennant race, folks, and it's only gonna get closer.  I don't
    know who's going to win, but this is why all those players play all
    those ultimately meaningless games.  It's for these oh-so-few 
    important ones, that's what.
    
    The response to date in Boston has been decidedly underwhelming, I must
    say.  People in Atlanta are whacking each other with foam tomahawks
    like a bunch of lobotomized idiots, and they've got a lot more to 
    complain about in the history department than we do.  I know people 
    don't want to get burned again, but they were excited in April, so 
    why not now when the real thing is here?  So there were a few bumps in 
    the road.  A hard-fought race is always more enjoyable than an easily 
    gained one.  Besides, one of these days it's really gonna happen, and 
    why not in a flukish, come-from-behind way?  (That's *not* a
    prediction, by the way.)
    
    I know, I know; Sox are toast... ;-)
    
    glenn
    
     

    Sox take 3 out of 4 in Yankee Stadium and now return home to Fenway to
    entertain the Orioles while Toronto heads west starting in Seattle
    tonight. The gut tells me we will be in 1st by the weekend.
    
    Roger has taken pages from Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale. Someone burns
    him, he makes 'em pay. 
    
    Go Sox
    
    Rich
    

    
    	I thought I was gonna die laughing last night when Matt
    	Nokes fired that ball back at Clemens.  :^)
    
    	Claybone

    > Roger has taken pages from Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale. Someone burns
    > him, he makes 'em pay. 
    
    Not only did Roger send out an obvious message, he may have sucked the
    Yanks into the retaliation trap and cost them the game.  A couple
    innings later, it looked like Guetterman was trying to give Greenwell
    the old kneecap job (either that or he temporarily lost his control
    very badly).  It was a real weak effort, with Greenwell backing into
    the pitch as it brushed the back of his calf muscle, and he later ended
    up scoring the winning run...
    
    glenn
    

    Gleen, Gutterman tossed a soft inside curve to Greenwell, and Greenwell
    took the pitch to get to first.. 
    
    REK
    
    PS Greenwell did not try to get out of the way of that pitch....

    A ghame like lasted night's is a classic reason WHY this conference
    misses the likes of Jim Wardle and Dan Schneider. You just know that
    these two would be in here today whining about Clemens. They would
    bring up that game versus the Tigers where Clemens gave up two homers
    and then hit Shelby. 
    
    In Nokes' case, the Mat Man hit an RBI single off Roger his previous
    time up. So Roger sent a message.
    
    To be honest, I hate to see a guy intentionally thrown at. But, again,
    after seeing "When it Was a Game" on HBO, I started to feel that
    today's batters are pansies. If you have a guy the caliber of Clemens,
    Gibson, Drysdale and Ryan (all flame throwers) enhancing their
    performances by keeping the batter off guard, then I'm for it. 
    
    On the other hand, I remember when Sox 2nd baseman Doug Griffen was
    beaned by a Ryan fastball some years back and I recall the hush that
    came over the room as we all wondered whether the guy would get up
    again.
    
    Rich
    

    So how did the Jays do?  How far back are the Sox now?
    
>    On the other hand, I remember when Sox 2nd baseman Doug Griffen was
>    beaned by a Ryan fastball some years back and I recall the hush that
>    came over the room as we all wondered whether the guy would get up
>    again.
    
    I remember that.  Nolan was pretty wild in his younger days.
    
    Mike

    Jays lost to the As, so the Sox are 3-1/2 back.

    re .571:
    
    Blue Jays lost to Oakland yesterday; their lead over the Red Sox is now
    3-1/2 games.
      
    Toronto is idle tonight while the Sox start a 3-game set at home
    against the Orioles.  For those Sox fans who've already penciled in Ws
    for tonight, tomorrow, and Wednesday, a gentle reminder that Baltimore
    is 5-2 against the Sox so far this year (and has a healthy Glenn Davis
    this time around).
    
    
    py

    REK, the pitch at Greenwell was behind him.  I think a batter's first
    instinct is to step back when a pitch is coming at him.  Even the ESPN
    announcers said Greenwell had nowhere to go.  It was good to see a
    batter trot to first for a change rather than charge the mound
    (especially considering this could have been retaliation).  Nokes
    throwing the ball back at Clemens was bush.  Clemens jawing at him when
    he reached first was also uncalled for -- he should have just drilled
    him with a pickoff throw ;^).
    
    Rich, there is a big difference between pitching inside and
    headhunting.  Unfortunately fans, batters, and umps these days don't
    understand that.
    
    Sox and Jays both lost last night.
    
    Paul, next time you see that oriole in your backyard, do all Sox fans a
    favor and chase it away for the next few days.

    I went to the Sox game last night, and while it was an excellent game,
    I'm pretty positive that I had the Deliverance Dude's dad (DDD?) next
    to me (or maybe his uncle, or both).  From the earlier descriptions, I 
    don't think it was the 'Dude himself, because he seemed a little older, 
    but not too much older, maybe only ten or twelve years or whatever's
    biologically feasible...
    
    Well anyway, this guy was whooping up a storm on some pretty tame 
    stuff, like a called strike for Kevin Morton (he called him Morty; maybe 
    they're related too?) with the count at 2-0.  He kept leaning over and
    repeating stuff to me, too, like "Cleveland's beating Detroit, 3-1",
    even though I could see the score too and had already told him the
    first time that I was more concerned about Toronto right now.  Then,
    late in the game, he asked me who was warming in the bullpen. 
    "Reardon", I replied.  A half-inning later, it was "guess who's coming 
    in next inning?"  Still later, in the top of the ninth, it was "guess
    who's coming in *now*?"  Uh, gee, lemme guess now, could it be...
    Reardon?
    
    Didn't hear any "Eeeeeee, eeeeee, eeeeees", though, except appended to
    the end of Luis Rivera's name.  He had the "Loueeeeeeee, Loueeeee" down 
    pretty well.
    
    Late in the game the guy tells me he doesn't even have a ticket to the
    game.  Apparently some cop he knows lets him in and he sits anywhere.  
    Go figure...
    
    glenn
    

    It was nice to see a Sox player get the benefit of Pesky's Pole for a
    change.  It seems like the opposition always gets the benefit of the
    short porch in RF.

    Sox are still 2.5 out as they hung on to win 7-5 over the O's last
    night.  Toronto blew a 1-0 lead the M's in the 8th last night, but came
    back to win the game in 12 innings.

       Ch 4 reported lasted night that the Sox are trying to pry Dewey away
    from the O's for the stretch drive. Seeing as how the OFers are
    dropping like flies this might not be a bad idea.
                               Denny

    IF someone Out there has the schedule and the time could they enter
    who the Redsox have Left (h-a) and who toronto has left as well.
    Thanks. On the Dewey note, I wouldnt come back to the Sox's if I
    were him.  The Deal would have to include next season !!!
    								MaB

    Too bad Dewey wouldn't be eligible for post season play should the Sox
    get him and pass Toronto in the standings.  It sure would be nice to
    give Evans one more chance at a WS ring after a long and productive
    career.

    Sox:  9/20-9/22 New York, 9/23-9/25 at Baltimore, 9/27-9/30 at
    Milwaukee, 10/1-10/3 Detroit, 10/4-10/6 Milwaukee.
    
    Jays:  9/20-9/22 at Oakland, 9/23-9/25 at California, 9/27-9/29
    Minnesota, 9/30-10/2 California, 10/4-10/6 at Minnesota
    
    Tigers:  9/20-9/22 Milwaukee, 9/23-9/26 Cleveland, 10/1-10/3 at Boston,
    10/4-10/6 at Baltimore
    
    John

    Heard this AM that Greenwell may be back next week.  A strained
    ligament, I believe.
    
    Lee

    According to Doc Pappas, Greenwell's knee injury is not the cartilege
    tear they suspected, but rather a ligament strain as Lee said. 
    Ironically it is not the knee injury which will keep Gator out, but
    rather a severe groin pull he suffered on the same play.

    The Sox win the first half of the twinbill in Baltimore 2-1.  Clemens
    pitches a complete game for his 18th win of the season.  Pretty soon
    even Mike Childs will be rooting for Roger to get his 3rd Cy Young ;^)

    	Sox better win that second game or they're toast.  Is it just
    coincidence that when the Boggs and Greenwell came back the Sox
    started losing?  Is it possible that when the team has guys that
    were managed by Butch Hobson in the lineup they're a better team?
    Hmm...
    
    				/Don

    re: -1,
    
    /Don,   Your shot at Boggs in the previous reply is bogus!!!  Boggs
    missed what, 2 games??  He was there for their 30 wins in 40 games
    run...and hit about .380+ during it.  Seems to me that when Boggs is
    doing well, the Sox do well.
    
    
    Hope this hurts,
    
    Nelly

    I'm afraid it really *is* all ovah but the cryin' now.  Unbelievable.
    In a can't-lose game the Sox blow a 5-1 lead and finally lose in the 
    bottom of the ninth, 6-5.  Reardon is apparently incapable of going in
    a *real* emergency save situation, and with a spent Greg Harris on the
    mound Joe Morgan has *nobody* in the pen warming until it's completely 
    obvious that Harris is done.  Even then, he's allowed to go ahead and
    walk the last two batters, forcing in the winning run.
    
    My dad called me from DC five minutes after this game was over and 
    asked if Morgan had been fired yet.  The guys on the HTS network 
    couldn't believe what they were seeing, I guess.
    
    glenn
     

    Now that the Rex Sox snatched defeat from the jaws of victory lets 
    get down to basic math....
    
    If Toronto goes 5-4 in its remaining 9 games that will mean the 
    Red Sox will have to go 8-2 just to tie......
    
    REK
    Rosanne Arnold has been spotted going down the Mass Pike towards Fenway
    park with a wide-load sign on her butt... And she has a 10 piece band
    on board with her warming up....

    Typical.  We were taken for a ride AGAIN!
    
    And next year, this team will be the same.  Changes won't happen.  WHy?
    Well Lou and the boys will say "Look, we came *so* close last year, and
    we had injuries, and the kids are really ready, and blah blah..."
    
    And we will eat it up, once again.  And the park will be filled.  And
    the SOx will take us for another ride.
    
    Rooting for the Red SOx is like getting a free ride on the Eternal
    Ferris Wheel of life.  However, you never get off, you either keep
    going around in circles, or get stuck right *NEAR* the top - always
    longfully looking at the guy stuck at the *TOP* with the good looking
    babe, while you are with your sister, a warm coke, and a dry box of
    popcorn.
    
    JD

    	Think the Sox will try to get Mariano Duncan as a free agent?
    They need a shortstop and this guy can play the position and hit.
    Wrong skin tone for a Sox free agent acquisition though.  They prefer
    to prusue guys that are "a whiter shade of pale".  8^(
    
    				/Don

>    Wrong skin tone for a Sox free agent acquisition though.  They prefer
>    to prusue guys that are "a whiter shade of pale".  8^(

As Billy Connelly says in his comedy special:  "A pale blue Scottish person"...


re JD:

	What an analogy.  You should be writing novels my man...


'Saw

    Whilst watching SportsCenter this AM on ESPN, after the bit on the Sox
    blosing the 5-1 lead in the bottom of the ninth, and the pitcher(can't
    remember his name) walking in the winning run, they interviewed the
    pitcher and he said the problem was the umpires, not his.  He said the
    Umpire was giving up on the guy's breaking ball early and calling it a
    ball, no matter where it went.
    
    Joe Morgan also backed up his pitcher.
    
    IMHO, the guy should've thrown REAL strikes and not ones in his haid,
    and Morgan should've yanked the guy a batter or two earlier.
    
    Blame the Ump, did the guy go to Clemsuck or somethin???????
    
    JaKe