Conference 7.286::sports_91

    
    Does anybody know if tonight's Syracuse - St. John's game is on TV???
    
    - Ken -

 I think so isn't it part of ESPN's big wednesday doubleheader with the second
 game being an ACC clash?

 Got to love those BIG EAST emblems on the Miami uniforms yesterday. Another
 bad ass sassy team for the conference. Wait till the basketball program
 catches up with the football..

 mike

    
    Last night Syracuse started their Big East season with a victory in a
    very close game with the #9 St. John Redmen.  The game was tied at 81
    (I believe) at the end of regulation time, forcing it into OT.  In OT
    Syracuse pulled ahead to win it 92-86.  Billy Owens had 28 pts, 14rbs,
    and 5 assists for the Orange, while Malik Sealy had 32 points for St.
    Johns.
    
    
    Syracuse, UNLV, and Ohio St. are the only top 20 teams who are still
    undefeated.
    
    - Ken -

anyone know if we can pull the BE schedule I created in the old SPORTS
notesfile ?  That took a lot of work, and I sure as hell ain't going to
do it again.


re:  SU-St. John's game

I listened to most of it on the radio, and it had tournament intensity.
What a great game !

SU had them by 11 twice during the first half, but St. John's played
very well at the start of the 2nd half and actually had a 6-pt lead
with about 9 minutes to go.

There were 10 or 11 ties, and 11 lead changes throughout the game.

During one stretch of the 1st half, SU played a zone that shutdown
St. John's offense.  The Redmen during that stretch (I think it was
about 10 minutes) did not make a FG...with all points coming from
the line.  Early in the 2nd half St. John's had scored more pts
from the line (14) than SU had in total for the half.

Michael Edwards played very little, as he had a bad ankle during the
week.  SU was forced to go with Mike Hopkins, who played well, but
fouled out.  The SU offense struggled, and I've got to think Edwards'
not being in there hurt them.

Conrad McRae also fouled out, so at the end, Boehiem was pulling
offense-defense substitutions with Edwards and freshman Scott
McCorkle.

SU's tendency to choke at the end showed again in this one.  They
had the ball (after a steal by Autry) and a 1-pt lead with only
36 seconds left and Owens threw it away.  Luckily St. John's missed
1 of 2 FTs.  SU had a chance for the last shot with about 10 seconds
to go, and David Johnson had his shot blocked FROM BEHIND by Sealy.
Johnson was in close.

Owens took over in OT, with a # of big rebs, and 2 sensational
assits to Johnson (one for a dunk).


SU has Villanova at home on Saturday, and then go on the road
to Pitt Monday (ESPN).


Joe

Jason Buchanan had a career-night.  He had 18 1st-half pts, and hadn't
missed from the field or the line.  He single-handedly kept the Johnies
in it.  Sealy took over in the 2nd.  He finished with 34 (I think), and
that's after Johnson held him scoreless for about the first 8 minutes
of the game.  No one else on the Redmen made significant scoring contributions.

I think they said that SU has beaten St. John's 8 of the last 9 times
they've met.

As good as Billy Owens is, one part of his game that still bothers
me is his occasional poor shooting night.  In Wed's St. John's game
he was 2-10 at one point of the 1st half.  He's had a # of 3-14,
4-16 type games in his 1st 2 years, and I chalked that up to not
knowing his role within the team, and being hesitant with his shot.

But this year it's his team and he should know what he's going to do
with the ball.  Maybe he's still hesitant, but if that's the case,
he's going to have a weakness when he goes pro, where split-second
timing differentiates the haves from the have-nots.

I'd like to see some more offensive aggresiveness (ie: fire-power)
from this All-America.


Joe

Joe, he's also facing alot more double teaming against him this year.

Georgetown beat Seton Hall
Nova beat SU
UConn beat Pitt
SJU beat BC
and PC lost to KBD"S """"""""Holy Cross Crusaders...

mike

    re .7:
    
    What was the score in the Georgetown-Seton Hall game?
    
    
    py

    In the Syracuse-Villanova game, Owens only had 1 point in the first
    half!!!
    
    - Ken -
    

>    What was the score in the Georgetown-Seton Hall game?

Mourning still isn't playing.


re:  SU-Villanova game

SU almost always struggles against this team.  It's amazing!  And Villanova
will get blown-out by Seton Hall later this season...

Owens had 3 fouls with 9 minutes to go in the 1st half.  He shot horribly,
both from the field and the line.

Leron Ellis had a BIG game, with 16 pts and 19 rebs.  Dave Johnson had 26
(4 3-ptrs).  Everyone else stunk.  Autry wsa 2-13 from the field.  I don't
think Edwards or Hopkins had a FG.

SU had 17 offensive rebounds in the FIRST HALF, but only scored 24 pts.

Villanova had built 13-15 point leads a few times, but SU got it back
to within 2-3 each time (the last time at 66-64 with only 2 minutes to
go), but could never draw even (they had the ball at 66-64, but turned
it over).

Villanova beat SU's press easily, and Lance Miller was their star, scoring
22 pts (I think), and doing a great job of D on Owens when they matched-up.


Syracuse had better get some scoring from their guards, or they'll be in
trouble.

BTW, Boeheim did play Hopkins, McCorkle and McRae off the bench.


Joe

Despite SU's early-BE season struggling, tonight's game @ Pitt should
be a good one.  They've played well at Pitt over the years.  Pitt is
also without Bobby Martin, who's out for a month with an injury.

The game is on ESPN at 7:30pm.

    Yeah Joe, tonight's game should be a good one!!!  I remember the game
    last year where Stevie made that basket as time ran out.  These 2 teams
    always play well against each other.  
    
    As for the Villanova game, I kind of had a gut feeling they weren't
    going to win this one.  Last year they lost both games to Villanova.
    Let's hope the guards wake up!!!  Is Edwards still hurt???  Also, any
    idea how McCorkle played against villanova, or was he not in too long.
    
    - Ken -

SU always loose to Nova cause Rollie coaches circles around JB. If the 
alligations are true they better take that chance to can him...

Scores

Gougetown Run&DNC(tm)  73  Seton Hall 65
SJU 75  BC 68
UCONN 81  Pitt 76
Nova  76  SU 66
Holy Cross  85  PU  66

SU/Pitt the big east at it's best!!! Great athletes lousy coaches...

mike

>SU always loose to Nova cause Rollie coaches circles around JB. If the 
>alligations are true they better take that chance to can him...

Well, they don't always lose to Villanova, but it sure seems like it.
They did beat them in last yr's BET.

Mike,  you don't know how hard I'm hoping that Boehiem gets forced out
due to the accusations of recruiting violations.


re: MacPherson

SU lost it's terrific football coach to the NE Patriots.  This guy is
the exact opposite of Bumhiem.  He is full of fire and inspiration.
His players like and respect him, and his teams are always prepared
for the big game...usually over-achieving.

With the rumors that Crothamel may get the Miami AD job, maybe Boehiem
will get promoted to AD and step out of the b-ball position.



Joe

    
    Joe,
    
    Where did you hear the rumors about Crothamel going to Miami???
    
    

>    Where did you hear the rumors about Crothamel going to Miami???

Ken,

It was in USA Today or The Globe the week the Patriots signed Jankovich.
He was listed as a "possibility", that's all...not a leading candidate
or anything.


Joe

Well Brian Shorter obviously picked the right game to get healthy as Pitt
down SU 91-78 or something close to that. The gamw was actuallt much closer
than that but Pitt did lead most of the way. Basically they kept about a
6 point cushion most of the game. Su was down 10 when Owens went to work 
cutting a 10 point lead down to 3 at 75-7. Problem was Owens probably sat
1 minute on the pine if was lucky and ran out of gas. Davey Johnson has
to be SU's brightest star right now. Owens playing head d shoulders above
everyone else was expected Johnson's wasn't. Autry and Edwards playing 
together doesn't mix. SU looked better at the begining of the year when
MCrea started. MCrea also played well, but hey JB's going to put what he
feels is his best five athletes out there and expect them to win on talent.


Pitt's bench played extremely well. This manchild McNeal that they have looked
like he was trying to show Evans he should be Martin's replacment and not
Morningstar. If Shorter's healthy this team can make it to Indiana if they
can overcome their coach.

mike

Mike,

The biggest problem with SU's game last night was the soft defense they
played.  Sure, they came up with some steals off the press, and a couple
in the 1/2-court set, but most of the time Pitt got very good shots when
they were patient and moved the ball.

This defensive problem has showed its head consistently thru the early
season.  NC State, NC Charlotte, Townson St., St. John's, Villanova and
Pitt all scored fairly easily, and in some cases, often.  Syracuse dominates
on the glass, but if the other team shoots 45-50% it spells "struggle".
Now, most of the above have good outside shooting teams, but hell, they're
getting easy 2-ptrs so far.  I'd try a zone and make them hit the outside
shot consistently.  They're quick enough to be able to get out to the ball.

Offensively they're going to need more from their backcourt before the
end of the season if they're going to do anything in the BET or the NCAA
tourney.  From what I've seen, I'd make Autry my point guard.  He's just
too good with the ball in his hands.  But what does Boehiem do with
Edwards ?  I'd put him on the bench, and use him as a sub.  He could
play McRae in the middle, Ellis at power forward, and Johnson at 2-G.
This would make SU huge at all 5 positions, and with the way Johnson
has been shooting (inside and out), it would open his game even more.
It also gives McRae the center position while he has some help, and
avoids him having to take over cold next year when Owens and Ellis
are gone.  I also think Autry should be the starting pt guard next
year with the 2 incoming recruits being shooting guards.  Might as
well get him playing the position now.

Of course, this most likely will push Edwards out the transfer door.


Tough loss last night, but as we all know, the early season is not
kind to Syracuse.  I can't remember the last time they were above
.500 after the first 6-8 games.


Joe

Watched an exciting UConn-Villanova game last night.

UConn won 74-71, but it was a lot closer than that.  UConn was
up by 9 with 6 minutes left, and then 'Nova made a run.  It was
tied with less than two left, but some phenomenal d by Lyman Depriest
secured the win....

Scott Burrell made the play of the game, blocking a sure layup from
behind (absolutely no contact) on a 'nova fast break, getting the
rebound (he blocked it off the glass), making the pass out on 
UConn's own fast break, and then taking the pass back to score.
Some exciting hoops.

I'm not a big hoops fan, but I enjoyed watching this one last night!

'Saw

PS  UConn the only undefeated Big East team -- but for how long ;^)

    
    The Providence Friars beat the Georgetown Hoyas last night 72-69!!!!
    Eric Murdock has 32 points.  Dikembe Mutombo had 19 points, and Alonzo
    Mourning did not play.
    
    - Ken -

    Say what you will about what's wrong with the Big East but, gosh
    darn, its gotta be the toughest conferenece in the country!!!
    
    A SU guy in my building commented earlier yesterday, "The Big East
    eats it's young!"   I LOVED IT!!
    
    Hey Mikey - 
    
    
    PC over Georgetown????
    
    No further comment
    
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

 Well Kev, what can I say we've been splitting this series every year since
 Pitino turned the program around. Murdock was unconcious when it counted
 most. PC's early pressure forced some early TO's which they quickly built
 up to a 10 point lead and maintained until about the 12 minute mark of the
 second half at which time Hoyas made a run. They cut the lead to 1 with
 about 5 minutes left and then Murdock took over scoring PC's last 12 or so.
 He hit three pointers, drives, off screens, you name it he hit it. PC was
 up 6 with 9 ticks to go, Joey Brown for GT hits a three to cut it to three
 with 5 seconds left. PC inbounds to Murdock who turns it over. GT gets the
 ball under thier basket with 2 seconds left. They set up a play and got off
 a decent NBA 3 point shot that bagged the back of the rim. 

 Personally it was a_excellent loss(tm) as the freshman didn't cave in when
 they were down 14 at one point and Mourning isn't playing. I've got a feeling
 that the Stomper is sitting on Mourning letting his young guys get the time
 early so they're ready later. It's also helping to develop Mutumbo's offense.
 Which was good last night. If Shack doesn't go pro, Mutumbo will be the first
 big man taken.

 mike    

> PS  UConn the only undefeated Big East team -- but for how long ;^)

Well, they play St. John's at home this Saturday.  Until last year,
St. John's has had their #.  If they beat St. John's, their next
game is next Wednesday, AT Syracuse.  I'll be shocked if they're
still undefeated in the BE next Thursday.


re:  Georgetown losing to Providence

Some teams consistently beat other teams, and Providence always gives
Georgetown a tough game.  But in fairness to G'town, they're playing
without Mourning.  That means freshmen, and Mutombo are carrying the
offensive load, and if that's all they were going to have all season,
they'd be a middle-of-the-division team.

BTW, Vitale was saying the other night that he expects to hear that
Mourning's foot injury is worse than most believe, and it may sideline
him for up to another month (he'd miss the SU game at the Cap Center
Mike).


Joe

 The thing about PC is they're going to play you the entire 94 ft for
 the entire game. They'll back off the pressure when they get the comfortable
 lead and this has lead to them blow some big games in which they had the lead
 (ie Ohio St last yr. in the NCAA's). They're also going to play 10, 11 guys
 a night. While the 10 or 11 guys is good cause it keeps they fresh and allows
 them to press all night it also hurts them at crunchtime as last night no
 one but Murdock wanted to shoot the ball. 

 Has UConn been on the road yet in Big East play? It'll be a shame Joe, if
 Mourning misses the SU game especially for JB when the freshman kick the
 O-men's butts...  ;^)

 Right now I'd say that Murdock has a slight lead over Owens for BOY with
 Mutumbo and Smith of UConn not far behind. If Murdock doesn't slow down
 I think it will be his especially because he's a senior. Of course if PC's
 record sucks it might eliminate him but 28+ ppg and 4.8 steal per game
 are hard stats to argue with.

 mike

    
    
    for Syracuse losing their second game in a row.  Pitt did
    it to them last night
    
    
    Ah love revenge!!!!!
    
    GO LOUIEEEEEE  -> @Seton Hall tonight (ESPN 7:00)
    
    
    Kev
    

UConn was on the road last night at Villanova.  I think the 'nova
crowd definitely helped the Wildcats get back into the game.

Scott Burrell has been on a tear so far this year.  His steals
pace so far will have him breaking Henefeld's record before the
year is out, if he stays on it...

UConn's D still looks awesome.  *If* this team gets their shooting
consistent on the first attempt, they will be hard to handle....

'Saw

>    for Syracuse losing their second game in a row.  Pitt did
>    it to them last night

Kev,  how's it feel knowing Villanova and Pitt took SU out, but
St. John's couldn't ?  And that night Michael Edwards only played
9 minutes because of a bad ankle....


Joe

    Joe,
    To be frank with ya, (and not be FrankWa) my head told me SJU wouldn't
    win but my heart really wanted it so when I heard the game went
    into OT, I was really impressed.  I know SJU isn't, man-to-man,
    as good as SU but we are ALWAYS COMPETITIVE and play with a lot
    of heart.
    
    I see the Big East as a circular rock fight - sometimes ya get
    beaned and sometimes ya don't but in the end, everybody has
    their share of bruises.
    
    Nova and Pitt are good teams, as are all the teams in the conference,
    and I think SJU has a better chance to beat them than they did SU.
    Can't come up with an intellectual reason though (besides, THAT
    sort of stuff probably isn't allowed in here ;^).
    
    SJU plays Pitt on the 19th and Nova on the 26th.  In both cases
    I expect a hard fought, close game with (hopefully) SJU coming up
    on top both times but in THIS conference, nothing suprises me.
    
    I just wish I could pick up the radio broadcasts.  Anybody know
    what NYC station has the Redmen this year?
    
    Kev
    

Well the surprise team of the conference ripped off another one last night as
Seton Hall pounded SJU. I missed the final score as I watch what became a very
interesting Celtics' game. Seton Hall ws up 18 when I changed channels and if
they didn't have 20 turnovers would have been up by 25 or more. The Pirates
defense was super. Winchester and Walker held Siely to 11 or so. Werdamn played
the worst game I've seen him play in two years. Avent owned him. The Hall is
sitting at 3-1. Could have been 4-0 if they hadn't blown a 15 point lead 
against the Hoyas. Ollie Taylor missed that game which cost them the victory.
If this kid Kersonois(sp)from Lithuiana ever decides to take 10 to 15 shots
a game watch out. Off the games I've seen this year, I'd say they'll be the
best bet to make a long run in the NCAA's out of this conference. SU has
bigger stars but lacks direction both offensively and defensively. Avent
could be the most improved player in the conference. Him or Davey Johnson
take your pick....

mike    

> Off the games I've seen this year, I'd say they'll be the
>best bet to make a long run in the NCAA's out of this conference.

Good you qualified that Mike...'cause we haven't seen nearly
enough yet.  In recent years teams like Providence and Villanova
have started out fast and fizzled by mid-season.  There are 3
parts to the season...1) early season, with underdogs creaming
their pants at the chance to play the "big boys";  2) mid-season,
when most start playing at the level of their talent, and the
grind takes its toll on the pretenders;  3) end of season, when
the teams playing well do something in the tournaments, and the
rest go home early.


> SU has bigger stars but lacks direction both offensively and defensively.

Who are these "stars" you're talking about ?  Billy Owens is only
one player !!!!  Get real Mike.  I'll be surprised if LeRon Ellis
makes it in the NBA, and he's the only other (at this point of their
basketball lives) with a realistic HOPE.  Michael Edwards is an
adequate, but not above-average, NCAA Div 1 point guard.  Autry
is still a freshman, and is playing out of position.  Johnson is
playing well, but this is his 1st year as a starter.  Is he for
real ?  Or just riding a hot hand ?

The bench: Conrad McRae is a defensive and rebounding force, but
has no offense (other than off the rebound), and he's getting his
1st playing time this year.  Hopkins is a "nice" player, who doesn't
usually hurt you, but isn't going to score in double-figures
either.  McCorkle is a green freshman.

Syracuse got off to a good start, but only beat 2 big teams in
Indiana and NC State in the pre-BE season.  I'm convinced that
if they are going to go anywhere, they're going to have to take
a "Danny and The Miracles" look by getting all of the pieces to
fit, with everyone doing their job.  SU will have to be a "team"
more than they ever have been in the recent past.  They aren't
there right now.  But I think they can get there.



Hey SU fans, look at what's happened in recent years to all our
big recruiting classes:

	'86:	Coleman		finished 4 yrs
		Thompson	finished 4 yrs
		Duncan		Prop 48, transfered after SO season
		Hughes		transfered after SO season
		Rogers		finished 4 yrs (end of bench)

	'88:	Owens	w/ team...likely to leave after JR season
		Johnson	w/ team
		Manning	transfered
		Hopkins	w/ team, red-shirted his freshman year
		Scott	transfered due to academic problems
		Siock	w/ team, red-shirted his SO year


Joe

>Hey SU fans, look at what's happened in recent years to all our
>big recruiting classes:

>	'86:	Coleman		finished 4 yrs
>		Thompson	finished 4 yrs
>		Duncan		Prop 48, transfered after SO season
>		Hughes		transfered after SO season
>		Rogers		finished 4 yrs (end of bench)

>	'88:	Owens	w/ team...likely to leave after JR season
>		Johnson	w/ team
>		Manning	transfered
>		Hopkins	w/ team, red-shirted his freshman year
>		Scott	transfered due to academic problems
>		Siock	w/ team, red-shirted his SO year


In the '86 class I forgot to add Matt Roe, who transfered after his
JR season.

Both years they had 6 recruits, with the recruiting classes regarded
as one of the best in the country.  The '88 class will graduate next
year, and it's a real possibility that the only impact player that
will be left will be David Johnson.


Joe

    Hey Joe!  You getting ready for your big trip to the Dome??
    I'm going to go see them this weekend vs. Seton Hall at the
    Meadowlands.  I'll also be in Syracuse for the UConn and Seton Hall
    games, and then it's off to G-Town....  I can't wait!!!!!
    
    - Ken -

    
    The way this Big East season has started is nothing new for any
    Orangemen fan.  The ALWAYS end up losing 3 or so games out of the first
    5 of the season (always to some huge Underdog team!).  I'm not too
    worried about it, I think Syracuse will figure out what they are going
    to have to do to win, and they will do it.  It should be real close in
    the end to see who the regular season Big East Champion is ---Syracuse,
    Uconn, or Pitt.  
    
    - Ken -
    

    Speaking of Roe, he had 23 points for Maryland last night.  I still
    think SU really misses his outside shooting off the bench (or would he
    have graduated by now?); isn't he the one from Manlius?
    
    Joe

    
    Yes, Matt Roe is the one from Manlius, NY...If he had stayed at S.U.,
    last year would have been his last year of eligibility.  But he
    transferred to Maryland, had to sit out last year, thus this year is
    his final year of college ball. I think Matt Roe may have helped more
    last year, with Coleman always getting double teamed in the middle,
    Roe's outside shot would bring the defense out more.  But in general, I
    believe that he is just an AVERAGE player, NO MORE....
    
    - Ken -
    

>    Speaking of Roe, he had 23 points for Maryland last night.  I still
>    think SU really misses his outside shooting off the bench (or would he
>    have graduated by now?); isn't he the one from Manlius?

He IS the one from Manlius, and yes, he would have graduated last year,
with Coleman, Thompson and Rogers.  But since he transfered, he had to
skip a year of playing, but still had one more year of eligibility.


Joe

>    Hey Joe!  You getting ready for your big trip to the Dome??
>    I'm going to go see them this weekend vs. Seton Hall at the
>    Meadowlands.  I'll also be in Syracuse for the UConn and Seton Hall
>    games, and then it's off to G-Town....  I can't wait!!!!!

Are you the guy that dresses up in that Orange suit ?  You probably
didn't go on as many road trips when you were at SU.  You should have
a great time.  Hopefully you'll see some "W's".

Yes, we're ready for our trip to Seton Hall-SU on the 19th.  It'll be
the 4th consecutive year.  So far we're 2-1.


Joe

Hey Joe, I'm reaL. Owens is worth any three players at Seton Hall. Autry,
Leron the Stiff, Edwards and Johnson I'm sure we're rated higher coming in
than the people at SH other than probably Dehere. You yourself said the defense
stinks and the offense only has direction when the ball is in Owens' hand.
Edwards and Autry can't decide between themselves who's playing the point
and who's shooting. Plus the JB factor. Seton Hall isn't going to be a fast
starting/ sinking end kind of a team. If anything they're going to get better
as their foreign students and freshmen (particular caber(sP))get better. SU
on the other hand is in trouble cause the balance of strength in the conference
from top to bottom is stronger than ever and with that in mind paybacks are
due to SU...

mike

    
    Re:  .37
    
    O.K., you were close, I'm not the Orange, but I'm the Dome Ranger!!!:-)
    You're right about me going to more away games this year, considering
    now that any game at the Carrier Dome is an AWAY game for me.  I plan
    on going to 4 games @ the Dome, and 5 away games this year.  Let's hope
    they are all wins, otherwise it will be a Long depressing ride home....
    
    - Ken -

>Hey Joe, I'm reaL. Owens is worth any three players at Seton Hall. Autry,
>Leron the Stiff, Edwards and Johnson I'm sure we're rated higher coming in
>than the people at SH other than probably Dehere.

I'm sure there were no ratings for at least 4 of the Seton Hall players,
'cause they aren't Americans.  Seton Hall may not fade as the season
goes along (at least a third of their team is pseudo-pro European),
but it's much too early to say they are going to go far into the
tournament.  Remember, they lost to Fordham on their HOME floor.


Anyone know the time of tomorrow's SU-Seton Hall game ?  I know it's not
on TV.  Hopefully the underdog Orangemen can pull an upset of this BE power.


re:  St. John's radio

I think someone (Kevin?) asked if anyone knew what radio station was carrying
St. John's games this year.  I found the game the other night.  It was around
85AM.  It's possible that it's WCBS out of NYC.


Joe

If Winchester can be as successful defensively against Owens as he was 
against Malik the Hall will win going away. SU 1-3 has a nice ring to it..
;^)

mike

    The Syracuse - Seton Hall games starts at 8:00pm...
    
    - Ken -
    
    

>If Winchester can be as successful defensively against Owens as he was 
>against Malik the Hall will win going away. SU 1-3 has a nice ring to it..

No way...forget it Mike.  Malik Sealy is no Billy Owens.

"The Hall will win going away".  Now that will make headlines.  You're
talking about a school (SH) that has never beaten Syracuse in BE play.


Joe

    Well, a win is a win is a win but I gotta say that it wasn't pretty.
    
    SJU (2-2) beat UConn to hand them their first loss of the season
    AND the first UConn loss EVER in their new (1 year old) arena called
    the Cahil Arena (or something like that).
    
    It was a tough physical game, hard fought by both sides.  SJU put
    it together towards tha end of the first half and continued when
    play resumed.  UConn had been taken oput of their game but they
had cold shooting and Weirdann had some awesome 'bounds.
    
    Final Score 70-59
    
    Sorry 'Saw but I'd rather see UConn beat by SJU than those thugs
    in DC or mid-NY.
    
    ;^)
    
    Hey Mikey, How 'bout them Hoyas?
    8^)
    
    Kev
    

    >> Played like sh!t
    
    Both teams did and I think it had something to do with the way the
    game was called.  I thought the refs (definitely from Clemson IMO)
    took both teams out of their games with inconsistent, erratic
    calls/no calls.
    
    IMO no way is SJU 13 points better than UConn, if at all.  
    
    In the final analysis, I think the reason SJU won is soley due to
    LOUIEEE's new sweater ;^)
    
    LOUIEEE is one hellova character!!
    
    I disagree with the Big East shaping up as the most competitive.
    It already is.
    
    Kev
    

Joe, I wasn't implying that he was. 2 losses getting to you? :^) only
saw highlights of the game which consisted of Avent's bucket and Johnson's
big play. Obviously Winchester didn't have any success with Owens. How's
his back? I hope it's not too bad. Although I'm solidly anti-SU, I'd pay
to see Owens any night of the week. We're only 5 games into the season,
it's along way to go...

Hey Kev, what the Hell did Louie put in Werdam's cornflakes yesterday? Had
to be the best game I've seen him play. On the sweater thing, I don't think
that was a new one, I think it's an old one revisted. Semms to me it looks
familar to one he used way back when this whole sweater thong got started.
I think he dusted off one...

Hoya's are young just wait till the end of the year when these pups mature
and Mourning is back. Speaking of Mourning, with this time off he's had
and the atention given to Mutumbo, I think Alonzo will come back for his
senior year so it'$ his team...

mike

    Mike,
    	Weirdann's beginning to come around (finally)!  I think that
    now that he's a junior, he's reallizing that if he doesn't play
    more aggressive ball, he'll not make it to the pro's.  I first noticed
    his "fire" during the ACC - Big East challenge.  He's still erratic
    but if LOUIEEEEE cain keep him motivated, I'm confident that he'll
    develop into a real solid player.
    
    The guy who really impresses me is Malik.  WOW!  What moves!!!!!
    All I see is another Cedric Maxwell - the guy's like a rubber band
    except he looked like a real jerk blowing that stuff towards the
    end of the game.
    
    Too bad about Singleton.  That knee injury has made him very, very
    ineffective and appear to be lethargic - no emotion :^(
    
    Right about LOUIEEEE's sweater, it was a moldy oldie.
    
    BTW, did I tell ya my wife got me 2 tickets to the Celt's/Fakers
    game for my 40th BD? 
    
    Don't know how she did it - mebbe sold 'er bod?  ;^))
    
    Kev
     

   
    
    Jack Bicknell (late of BC football) has been named head coach of
    the Barcelona Dragons of the World League of American Football.
    
    

>    Jack Bicknell (late of BC football) has been named head coach of
>    the Barcelona Dragons of the World League of American Football.
    
First act as head coach will be to scour the countryside of Spain to 
find a little quarterback named Diego Flutisimo upon whose coattails
he can ride for ANOTHER ten years.

    
    Barcelona Dragons - lEe's favorite team!
    

Is the Big East competitive ?  Here are some early-season results
(most games have been very close!):

	Seton Hall almost beat G'town at the Cap Center; blew out
	St. John's; and almost beat SU

	St. John's lost in OT AT the Carrier Dome; got crunched by
	Seton Hall; and beat UConn soundly

	UConn beat Pitt at home; Villanova (by ONLY 3) on the road;
	and lost to St. John's AT home

	SU just beat St. John's at home; lost AT HOME to Villanova;
	lost to Pitt on the road; and beat Seton Hall (barely) on the
	road

	BC beat Providence; got crushed by UConn at HOME; almost beat
	G'town on the road

	Georgetown squeaked by Seton Hall and BC AT HOME; and lost
	at PC

	PC almost beat SH on the road; beat G'town at home; and got
	crunched at Pitt

	Pitt lost at UConn; beat SU, Vill and PC at home

	Vill lost to Seton Hall and UConn at HOME; beat SU on the road;
	and lost a close one to Pitt on the road


Very few easy wins in the Big East this year.  There are 7 teams that
should have high hopes for the NCAA, with just PC and BC not making
the grade.


Joe

    Joe,
    
    Please add that 'nova has just beaten G'Town by 9 points!!!!!
    
    
    I'll tell ya one thing, I'd hate to be a bookie!!!!     ;^)
    
    Sheesh!!!! Whattta brutal conference.  Reminds me of Rodney - 
    
    
    Ion't get NO respect!!!!!
    
    
    Dear Mikey,
    
    
    
    Ha ha ha ha
    
    Kev
    

    Guess what 'Nova is?  :*)
    
    lEe

>
>    Guess what 'Nova is?  :*)
>    
>    lEe


Your favorite team?

    
    Tomorrow night's game, Syracuse vs. UConn should be a good one.  It is
    being covered by ESPN (7:30pm).  It is not sure whether Billy Owens is
    going to be able to play or not.  He's on a day-by-day basis...
    With out Owens, this will be a big test for the Orangemen.  
    
    - Ken -
    

>    With out Owens, this will be a big test for the Orangemen.  

Ken,

Without Owens, I don't think SU can beat them...especially considering
UConn's defensive pressure.  SU needs Owens to handle the ball, and
make them pay by over-playing.  Let's hope Billy's ready.


Also, the game is on ESPN AT 7:00PM, not 7:30pm.


Joe

    Tonight the Redmen are at PC and apparently it's not
    being televised (according to my tv guide).
    
    Anybody know what providence radio station may be carrying the game
    if I can't get CBS (880AM) out of NY?
    
    deen to wonk
    
    Kev
    

 Kev, I think either NESN or Sportschannel is covering the PC/SJU game as
 they have a tuesday nite package with the Big East. 

 I missed a lot of the second half (dam half time always gets me) but in the
 first half the Hoyas started strong only to have Nova turn up the pressure
 and catch em and pass em. While the Rookies have shown some good shooting
 ability they haven't yet shown they're up to handling pressure defenses. PC
 gag em with a full court trap and last night it looked to me as if Nova was
 looking to trap at half court. While Mutumbo is an automatic on the inbound
 he absolutely no help after that as he can't dribble or pass as well as
 Mourning. When Alonzo comes back they should have a decent answer to the
 trapping defenses they'll be facing from now until the end. Joey Brown can
 handle the pressure but teams just overplay him and keep the ball out of his
 hands.

 It looks like the regular season winner is going to have 6 or 7 conference
 losses...

 mike    

    Anybody know when Mourning is to return??
    
    - Ken -

    I'm pretty sure they said something like this weekend Morning may
    be back.  JT better hope so - the hoya's are barely competitive
    without him.
    
    Mike,
    Glad to have ya aboard!  Wished I could have seen your face when
    ya read about it.  The mrs. don't know diddly 'bout bball and I
    couldn't see just "filling the seat" with her.  After all, I do
    live with her :^)
    I asked her if she didn't go if it would be a big deal (don't wanna
    get cut off like you will be soon [hehehe]) and to her it was no
    big deal.  Shows ya how much SHE knows!!!
    
    
    BTW, 1st balcony, sec. 68 rowJ #5-6.  Any good?
    
    Got school tonight till 10:00PM and don't have either SC or Nesn.
    Oh well (sigh) SJU is favored by 6 but like I said before, anything
    can happen.
    
    GO LOUIEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
    
    Kev
    
    
    

 They should be fine Kev. 68 is located along one of the baselines and
 the seats are unobstructed. I also have a spot close to the floor picked
 out if the vistors don't bring too many fans with them. That is if we get
 bored with the seats we got....

 Kev, my jaw hit the floor and I had goose pimples for atleast 30 seconds
 I was rushing so much...the feeling was like those amies we use to pop
 so many foolish years agos... ;^)

 mike    
    
    

re:  BE winner having 6-7 losses


Mike,

My guess is 4-5.  I can't see UConn and Pitt having 6 losses.
Syracuse may have 6-7 losses, depending on the extent of their
early-season problems...and Billy's back.


Joe

 Joe, UConn certainly will they're too helter skelter offensively and
 lack a dominate big man. If you can handle their pressure you can beat
 them. Pitt has the talent not to loose 6 or 7 but they do Evans so there
 is a good possibility that they will.

 mike

Gotta agree there Mike.

I see this as kind of a "mild rebuilding" year for UCONN.  I don't 
expect great things, but still enjoy watching them play...

'Saw

    After class I was lucky enough to catch the last 4 minutes of the
    post-game wrap up on WPRO and was pleased to hear that SJU defeated
    PC by 6 points.
    
    However, I was suprised to hear that the game went into OT.
    
    Malik scored something like 35 points.
    
    Kev
    

>I see this as kind of a "mild rebuilding" year for UCONN.  I don't 
>expect great things, but still enjoy watching them play...

Hey guys, let's not forget that UConn was the pre-season BE #1.
While I think Mike is exactly right re: their offensive problems
and lack of height, I do believe that their defensive pressure
and team determination (and their coach) will have them beating
the bottom-1/2 of the division consistently, while they split
with the upper-1/2.

We'll find out more tonight, 'cause if Owens is healthy, UConn
will have their hands full with a team bent on revenge for last
year's BET Championship loss.


Joe

    Anyone know the extent of Arturas Karnishovas' injury?
    
      
    py

>    Anyone know the extent of Arturas Karnishovas' injury?

Was he hurt in last night's BC game ?  He played Saturday.


Joe

    I expect a very tight year in the Big East, with no outstanding
    team.  I also expect no Big East team to get past the second round
    in the NCAA tournament, although they could get as many as seven bids.
    
    My predictions for the final Big East Standings:
    
    	1) Georgetown	10-6
    	   Pittsburgh	10-6
    	3) Syracuse	 9-7
    	   UConn         9-7
    	   St. John's    9-7
    	   Villanova     9-7
    	7) Seton Hall    7-9
           Providence    7-9
    	9) BC            2-14
    
    NAZZ

    re .72:
	
    >>    Anyone know the extent of Arturas Karnishovas' injury?

    >     Was he hurt in last night's BC game ?  He played Saturday.
    
    Not sure, I turned the game on about halfway through the second half
    and he wasn't in there....the early early early edition of the Globe
    that I get now that I live in NH didn't have a box score.
    
    
    py

>    I also expect no Big East team to get past the second round

The Big East will be a dog-fight not because there isn't one or
2 dominating teams, but because there are 3-4 very good ones,
and 3-4 pretty good ones...both within the conference and
nationally.  I'll be very surprised to see any of Syracuse,
Pitt, UConn and St. John's gone after 2 rounds of the NCAA.
I'd include G'town in this list too, but without Mourning,
all bets are off.

My personal opinion is that 7 teams from the Big East are
going to the NCAA tourney and at least 5 will make it past
the 2nd round.


Joe

 Karshinovas has a deep thigh bruise. He didn't suit at all for last night's
 game. He's had the problem for most of the year as I understand sort of a
 naggin injury. Given it was only BC they figured they could rest him. Almost
 a mistake as BC had a 5 point lead with 8 minutes to go before crumbling.
 Dehere was way off but Avent was super again and Oliie Taylor hit enough
 outside buckets to keep the BC defense honest. If BC could have controlled
 their defensive board they would have won it.

 SJU made a great comeback last night as they trailed Providence most of the
 game They were down 63-54 with 8 minutes or so left when they put a spurt
 together actually taking the lead at 67-65 with uncer 4 to go. Teams traded
 back and forth until they were tied in regulation at 74. As good as Sealy
 was so wasn't Murdock he hit some shots that left me amazed and finished the
 game with 31....

 mike

    Big win for SU last night, 81-79 over UConn in OT.  SU almost lost
    another one due to their free-throw shooting down the stretch, but
    they managed to hang on.  Ellis had a good game: 7-9 shooting, 12
    boards, and the slam at the end of regulation to send it into OT.  I
    thought McCorkle did a decent job off the bench.  Any particular reason
    McCorkle was saw more time than McRae?  I thought McRae was their
    primary 6th man.  On the down side, SU's guards didn't really show me
    much.  IMO SU's front line won this one.
    
    Joe        

 Because McCorkle was filling in for Edwards who stunk out the joint from
 what I saw. Chris Smith embaressed the SU's guards bads.....

 mike

>   I thought McCorkle did a decent job off the bench.  Any particular reason
>    McCorkle was saw more time than McRae?  I thought McRae was their
>    primary 6th man.

McCorkle did a TERRIFIC job, considering he's been the 3rd man off the bench,
and has seen very little playing time in big games.  He had 12 points (I
think), a number of boards, and some key penetration moves where he
dished off and got an assist.  For a freshman that was supposed to be
primarily an outside shooter (ie: one-dimensional) at this point of his
life, he impressed the hell out of me.  He got a little excited at the
end and was too strong on the 3's, but what great experience for this
kid.  For Boeheim to play a frosh under these conditions, he must be
talented, and we should see good things from him in the future.

McCorkle played more than McRae 'cause he's what they needed (outside
threat).  McRae is exactly the opposite.  Conrad got some good PT.
The guy that stayed on the pine was Hopkins.  He threw the ball away,
and just doesn't hit the outside shot well.

A good win.  Both teams played well, and UConn's performance convinced
me that they will NOT lose 6-7 games in the BE, and they're a national
top 15 team.


BTW, I agreed with Boeheim going into the zone.  Smith was penetrating
much too easily.  He'll be a good pro.


Joe

Weekend results:

	St. John's 73		Pitt 71
	Georgetown 56		BC 49
	Syracuse 78		Seton Hall 64
	Providence 108		UConn 102

	Arizona 72		Villanova 64


The PC-UConn score is unbelievable.  PC scores 108 pts against that
defense, on UConn's home floor.  I'd love to see a tape of that game.
UConn had them by 17 at one point during the game (15 at the 1/2).
UConn has lost 3 in a row, and 2 in a row at home.

St. John's beats Pitt (they've always played them tough) at St. John's
on-campus gym.  The Redmen certainly are the surprise of the BE.
I thought they would be good, but I didn't expect them to be a strong
top 10 team.  Despite the loss, Pitt should be better than #17.

Georgetown squeak's out another over BC.  Mourning DID play, but had
only 10 pts.  It'll be interesting to see how the team's flow of
play is affected by Mourning's return.  What a big test for them
tonight, at home vs. Syracuse.

SU was horrible in the 1st 1/2 (scored only 26 or 27 pts).  They
had no pattern to their offense, just constant one-on-one moves.
Seton Hall was ahead by 7 or 8 at the 1/2, but they should have
been up by more.  They played pretty well.  Owens probably had
only 4-6 pts and Johnson ZERO (he didn't take a shot) in the 1st
1/2.  SU opened the 2nd 1/2 with Owens and Johnson getting the
ball (usually down low) constantly.  They immediately took over
the game.  Seton Hall stayed on the perimeter most of the night,
and didn't shoot well in the 2nd 1/2.

A sign of the change in offensive strategy:  SU was 6-10 from
the line in the 1st 1/2, and 23-27 in the 2nd (with Johnson and
Owens making most of them).


Villanova played well against Arizona.  They had a 1 point lead
at the 1/2.  They're getting NO RESPECT from the pollsters.
They're not in USA Today's Top 25, and are getting less votes
than Seton Hall and Providence.


This week's games:

	Monday		Syracuse at G'town

	Tuesday		Villanova at BC
			UConn at St. John's
			St. Peter's at Seton Hall

	Wednesday	Pittsburg at Providence


Joe

 Joe, it was all Owens from where I sat everything Johnson got was a direct
 results of something Owens did. Autry had a good game hitting some tough
 shots down low and Edwards stunk again. Neither one of them could get SU
 into an offensive flow and SU finally had to result to Owens bring up the ball
 and starting the offense.

 I too would love to see a tape of the PC game...

 SJU was lead by Sealy again with 35. Good game again as the game was basically
 no more than a 5 point swing by either team the entire game. Shorter is
 healthy which means Pitt will only get strong in a few weeks when Martin
 returns. Werdamn and Buchanan's play are the reasons why SJU is surprising
 a lot of folks. Sealy was phenomal hitting I think SJU's last 16 points
 everyway possible....

 Hoyas looked sloppy offensively rushing a lot of shots. BC isn't quite
 there but they are competitive. Hurley is playing well for a freshman
 bigmen. Mourning looked good but is getting lost in the offense as he's
 playing the high post with Diekemba down low. I really think Joe that
 he'll come back next year so he can play center again and increase his
 value...should be interesting tonight, certainly no love loss between
 these two teams...

 mike

Joe --

I didn't watch the whole UCONN game, because I was watching something else,
and I have to be "up" to watch hoops anyway.

They blew their lead in the second half.  They weren't shooting well from
the free throw line, and Providence was.  They just didn't seem to be
into the game.

I'm not sure how much this thing with Katz is affecting the entire team.
I know that it is affecting Katz, he's admitted as much.

And I still see this as a rebuilding year.  It might be different if
Nadav were here, but he's not....  

I think UCONN will be around for a long time to come (as long as we
have Calhoun) but this season seems to be a bit "off".  

And, you all have to remember, that for us UCONN fans, this is all new.
I can't remember the last time UCONN remained consistently in the
Top 20 for two seasons in a row.  (Probably never did).  

They may not have it this season, but I'm sure it will be a learning
experience, and that experience will help them next year, much as the
Giants 1985 playoff loss to the Bears helped catapult them to the
Championship the next season....

'Saw

    All I'm gonna say is I'm very glad that Wednesday's game against
    UConn is at SJU's home court.  
    
    I'm sure UConn has a bit of revenge on their mind.
    
    Kev
    

    UCONN will be fine as the year wears on.  They are a top twenty team 
    and can probably stay with anyone in the country.  The games I have
    seen them lose so far this year (NC,St Johns and Providence) I thought
    they played nervous hoop.  They seemed to show spurts of explosiveness
    and then take 5 bad shots in a row.  There doesn't seem to be any
    consistency in their offense when their down except that when their
    down they stay down.  I was disappointed in the Providence game, it was
    a classic case of building a huge early lead and then relaxing to the
    point of losing.  On a bright note they are an exciting team to watch
    and for me that's all that matters.  Give me two hours of exciting
    Big East play and I'm happy.
    
    Jimbo

    The other night it was McCorkle off the bench, this time it's Hopkins.
    He was 3-3 on 3-pointers, and made that big one down the stretch.  I
    think last night's win shows that this is not just Owens' team.  He has
    a subpar night shooting, and they still win on the road against a
    top-25 team. 
    
    On the down side SU missed some crucial free-throws down the stretch
    (again), and the starting guards didn't have very good games (again).
    I only caught the 2nd half, so this observation regarding the play of
    the guards for the whole game may not be entirely true.
    
    Go Orange!
    
    Joe
    

	Joe C, don't kid yourself this team only goes as far as Owens
 carries it. I would venture a quess that 70% of their offense can
 be directly attributed to him either by scoring, passing, rebounding,
 bring the ball up against pressure whatever he has it in his hands. As for
 the rest of teams Johnson's playing very good and I thought last night
 once Edwards went to the bench and Autry went to the point that double-
 A had a good game. Hopkins may move into the starting lineup. It would
 be a good move in helping to develop Autry. Leron is still a stiff who
 does some nice things but not consistantly and takes way to many stupid
 fouls real dumbs ones....
    
    
	As for last night's game they were dam lucky to get out alive. 
 Georgetown's outside shooting was non-exsistent. It wasn't the Syracuse
 D, they were giving the Hoyas the outside shoot which noone but Joey Brown
 seemed able to hit so he of course doesn't shoot. SU just sagged all 
 night and with both of the big guys down on the blocks for the Hoyas
 SU was able to triple team both of them within a 10 by 3 ft bock or so    
 making life oh so simple....

	Can't fault the Hoyas defense as they held em under 60 and forced
 them to the perimeter where Johnson, Hopkins and Owens had the answers...

 mike

>    On the down side SU missed some crucial free-throws down the stretch

Joe, that should read, "Billy Owens missed some crucial free throws
down the stretch".  Owens is starting to make a habit out of this.
He missed 4 straight at the end of regulation against UConn, and at
least a couple more at the end of OT.  Last night was ridiculous.
His missed free throws and field goals (4 of each) at the end of
the game nearly killed them.

Mike, I don't agree that SU was lucky to win.  Georgetown was lucky
to make it that close.  How often will you see an NBA-caliber player
go 0-fer-everything in the last 4 minutes of the game ?  I was
thoroughly digusted with the guy.  SU had played a pretty good
game, leading throughout, answering every Georgetown thrust, only
to have him single-handedly give it away.  And what's frustrating,
is that SU set up the offense down the stretch just for Owens,
and he didn't come through.

I also did NOT see SU "packing it in"...in fact, Raftery noted
how SU's zone extended itself to the point that the baseline was
open quite a bit.  They really pressured the ball, and as Raftery
said, "played the scrappy, attacking 'D' that Georgetown is noted
for".  I was pleased with their defense.

I don't think G'town is a good outside shooting team...maybe it's
just the fact that most of the outside guys are freshmen, and there-
fore do not have the confidence yet.

G'town's force inside really negated SU's inside offense.  Syracuse
is mostly an inside team, but they shot horribly (3-15 in the 1st
1/2) inside last night.  Their outside shooting saved them last
night...and the guys that made the shots (Autry, Hopkins, Owens,
Johnson) all have decent outside shots, but never have they all
shot well in one game.


>    and the starting guards didn't have very good games (again).

Joe, Autry played pretty well, for a freshman.  This was a big game,
and he played the point most of the way.  Most of the season he's
been at the off-guard spot, so I think his scoring and penetration
were excellent last night.  My hope is that we'll see more of this,
to the point where he becomes the starter, and Hopkins and McCorkle
share the 2G spot.  Edwards really has to be looked at as a backup
point guard, for the long haul.  I sense that is what Boeheim is
doing, and if so, I give him credit.  With Autry at the point,
they have a big team in there, with guards who will be tough to
shoot over.


re: UConn's inconsistent offense

The answer is at the point.  In other words, they don't have one.
Smith is NOT a point guard, and the other kid (from Israel) does
not possess enough talent to run an offense, and create things
for the rest.


Joe

Cmon Joe, sure they trapped and doubled out on the side but the fact that
they played 3-2 instead man to man is built on the priciple of clogging
the lane...

 more later got to run..

>Cmon Joe, sure they trapped and doubled out on the side but the fact that
>they played 3-2 instead man to man is built on the priciple of clogging
>the lane...

I agree about the intent, but SU didn't give them an uncontested "3"
either.

I think you'll see the same when they meet again at The Dome.


Joe

 They had a few uncontested ones. Besides Joe this is SU/Georgetown and
 you guys won and now I supposed to give SU credit for a playing a good all
 around game too?  ;^)

 No WAY!!!!

 mike

I'm the last one that wants to help make a case for keeping Jim
Boeheim, but Sunday's Syracuse Herald American gave his record
vs. the Big East:

			131-66  (I may be off on the losses by a
				 couple, but I think this is it)

Just think what it would be if they had a guy that could win
THE BIG ONE !!!  Instead of 2 BE titles out of 8 BE title
games, they may have 5 or 6 !


He doesn't fare as well against Thompson and the Hoyas:

			11-21  including last night's win


Joe

    
    
    SJU beats UConn for the secong time this season!!!!
    
    Didn't (don't) remember the score but the margin was 3-4 points!!!!
    
    Tied for 1st in the BE!!!!
    
    Hey Saw.....
    
    
    nya nya nya.....
    
    many ;^)
    
    GO LOUIEEE!!!!!!!
    
    Kev
    

Final was 65-62.

UCONN's game has been way off.  In fact, I didn't even watch the game.
(As I've repeatedly said, I'm not that big a fan of hoops -- any hoops).
I watched Roseanne instead, which was infinitely more entertaining if
the final outcome of the game says anything...

All along I've felt this was a rebuilding year for the Huskies and
I'm being borne out.  After last year's performance, everyone will be
gunning for them, and they did have the KoD of being picked for 1st
in the Big East.

I'm not surprised at any of these results... Just an off year...

'Saw

PS  And will someone please make sure that Lou CarnageSickum(tm)
    doesn't sit in the bathtub so much.  The man is wrinkled like 
    a prune!

>>PS  "And will someone please make sure that Lou CarnageSickum(tm)...."
                                                        ^
                                                       /^\
						        |

	ARRGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!  


"Captain, his blood pressure is 230 and rising fast.....do someting
 or he'll explode......."


   Uh, let's see, umm, what was that.....gimme a minute.....uh...


   hmmmmm

   THAT'S IT!!!!!!!


   Hey 'saw,



   Take a suck pill!!!

   :^0

   (Thanks Karen for first creating the above.)


  ... and shame on you for lowering yourself to MrT's name-calling level.
   As a reasonable lunatic, you've crossed the line - calling my
   LOUIEEEE a "CA********" (I cain't even bear to repeat that most
   distasteful erroneous label), without JUST cause!!!!!!!


   Don't EVER do that again!!!!!  If you do, be prepared for the
   "Chainsaw Mountain" Man to be significantly modified into the
   "Scrollsaw molehill" gelding!!!!!!

   When you are 66 years old, you probably gonna look like a discarded
   pile o' Red Man!!!!  Not a very pretty sight!!!!!

   (another cute smile)


Kev_who's_still_being_chased_by_the_babe's!

      

Actually, I spelled it that way because I can't spell it the right
way....

But, no mas problemo, I'll just call him Pruneface Lou from now on...

Yeah, I like the sound of that....

Mondo 8^)s dude....
'Saw

    Hey Kev... suck pill is REKs wonderful contribution.   I omit the
    "suck" part.

    'Saw,
    
    'pologies accepted.  New monicker fer LOUIEEEEE is ok - no offense
    taken, nor defensive retribution attempted.  ;^)
    
    Karen,
    
    I allways knew you had class.  Thanks for correcting my error.
    Somehow, I honestly think you used the "s*ck" part though.
    
    ps - I won't mention how much/liitle class you DO have though  ;^)
    
    Kev
    

Mike, I have to agree with a statement you made a week or so ago.
If the voting were held today, Eric Murdock would be my BE Player of
the Year.  I saw the PC-Pitt game last night and he was incredible,
scoring a BE record 48.  He literally DID IT ALL.  He scored from
everywhere on the floor, stole the ball, rebounded, assisted, and
had a great block of one shot.

Pitt played man-to-man, but I can't see Syracuse doing the same,
especially knowing how they've been susceptible to penetrating
guards.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd pack it in and make them stay
outside.  Syracuse hardly ever has a problem with a club that
wants to go up-and-down the floor, and Pitt scored at will for
the most part.  But I may be tempted to slow things down against
this club.  Just to throw off their flow.  Barnes has them looking
very much like a Loyola Marymount.


Joe

USA Today listed the Big East as having the best record in non-
conference games of all of the NCAA Div 1 b-ball conferences.
They are 80-15 (.842).  The Big Ten is 83-25 (.769) and the
ACC is 3rd at 66-20 (.767).

The article went on to speculate about the possibility of 7 teams
from the BE making the NCAA tourney.

Last night the ESPN announcers were saying that a win would
help PC's chances of getting a bid.  At 11-7, and 2-5 in the BE,
I don't think they have a shot.


This weekend's games:

		Sat:	Syracuse at Providence
			St. John's at Villanova
			UConn at Seton Hall

		Sun:	Georgetown at Pittsburgh


Joe

    re: .99
    
    Murdock had an exceptional game against Pitt the other night, but I've
    got to give the "star of the game award" to...never thought I'd say
    this...Darren Morningstar.  This Baby Huey clone is finally coming
    around.
    
    No offense to EMT, however, who deserves a ton a recog even in loss.
    
    	--dan'l

 I would say Joe that 7 is a good possibilty. PC may have dropped 7 games
 already but considering that most of those losses are inter-conference
 it shouldn't hurt them. Weak early schedule will hinder them somewhat but
 with more teams doing it, it won't be as bad. Also there should be more
 spots available as the Big Ten will probably send only 5 maybe 6 teams
 to the NCAA's. ACC also isn't as strong as it has been as our fine 6-2
 record in the Challenge proved....

 mike

For those of you that are having a slow Saturday night, SU-Providence
will be televised live on CH.12 out of Providence at 8pm.  NESN is
showing a taped broadcast of UConn-Seton Hall at 8pm, and SU-PC at
10pm.


Joe

    Anyone know if Bobby Martin will be back for Pitt?  I don't give Pitt
    much of a chance without him...unless Morningstar happens to have
    another great game.  Pitt, IMHO, has the best bench in the BE...Omo,
    Ghandi, O'Neal, and usually Morningstar.  Four possible starters on
    some other teams.
    
    	--dan'l

>    Anyone know if Bobby Martin will be back for Pitt?

A doctor told Martin he had to sit out another 2 weeks 'cause
there's still one stitch left in his finger and it isn't completely
healed from the infection.  Evans may seek another opinion, as
he believes something can be put over the finger to protect it
while he plays.

Dan, I think Pitt's bench is pretty good, although they are
all 1st-year players (except for Morningstar), so inexperience
hurts them a little.  Pitt needs this young talent to get some
playing time this year, as 4 of the starters are graduating
this year (it would have been all 5 if Miller hadn't had the
injury last year that forced him to red-shirt).  This is a
great opportunity for them to capture a BET title.  Next year
will definitely be a rebuilding one for them.


Joe

    
    yahoo!!!!!!
    
    SJU beats 'nova and takes over SOLE posession of FIRST PLACE
    in the BE!!!!!!!!
    
    CONGRAT's LOUIEEE!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Funny, last year there was a lot of negative comments about the
    game passing LOUIEEE by.....
    
    What's say y'all now????
    
    grins,
    
    Kev
    

    I thought there was some big time overzealous officiating in the Pitt
    Georgetown game...and then at other times there was no officiating at
    all.  Very incosistent, with neither team benefitting from the way the
    game was called...except that Shorter's 6th foul was touch if a foul at
    all.
    
    There were 61 total fouls called in that game.  Ten players finished
    with four or more fouls.  When Shorter had to sit, Georgetown won it. 
    basically that was the long and "shorter" of it.
    
    	--dan'l

  Trying to get a fix on the standings

		SJU 6-2
		Seton Hall 5-3
	        SorryExcuse(tm) 5-3
		Hoyas  4-3
		Pitt   4-3
		Uconn  3-5
	        Nova   3-5
	        Prov   3-5
		BC     1-7

 ?????????

 mike

    Mike,
    
    Nova is in 6th place with one less loss, 3-4.  BC is 1-6.  
    
    Could it be that everyone in the Big East except BC might make the
    tourney?  Nah, there's too much basketball left in the season.  
    
    	--dan'l

>    What's say y'all now????

I say St. John's has been a fast starter the last few years, so
let's wait and see where they finish.  I'm impressed with road
wins at UConn and Villanova, but that 20-point crushing at
Seton Hall sticks out.

They don't have a lot of offensive firepower (Sealy is it),
and their bench is thin.  But without a dominating team in the
Big East, they could surprise with a BE regular-season title.



re: Sat's SU-PC game

Syracuse just got whipped by a red-hot Providence team.  Ironically,
they held Murdock in check (I don't think he scored 10 points in
the 2nd 1/2 - Dave Johnson did a great job, using his quickness
and height advantage), but got beat on the boards and allowed a lot
of inside points to guys like Bragg and others.  I don't remember
the last time SU was beaten on the boards so convincingly.

I had hoped for 2-1 on this roadtrip thru G'town, PC and UConn.
Now they'll be lucky to get it, facing UConn tonight.  Conn has
lost 5 straight, with the streak starting with a tough OT loss
at the Carrier Dome.  Maybe the team is losing heart and SU
is catching them at a good time,  but my guess is that they'll
be pumped tonight and won't be denied.  Knowing that Boehiem
doesn't seem to get his troops ready for these types of games,
I see a big UConn win.


BTW, SU fans and interested others, Autry continues to get
significant playing time at the point.  I've seen the following
combinations: Autry-Hopkins/McCorkle-Johnson-Owens-Ellis; and
Autry-Johnson-Owens-Ellis-McRae.  When Autry is at the point,
they have a big team on the floor, and he gives them terrific
penetration, which always breaks down a defense (resulting in
an easy assist or offensive rebound).

Also, the Big East TV guys Saturday night said that in talking
with Owens, he was saying that he would be returning for his
senior year.  He said that there were still things he wants
to do in the college game.


Joe

    A few weeks ago, I busted UConn's chops for ducking the Mighty
    Minutemen this year and someone said that was probably good for UMass.  
    
    What sayest thou now with UMass being 12-6 and UConn being in the midst
    of a large losing streak?
    
    UConn vs BC in the annual Big East "Toliet Bowl" game on the first
    night of the Big East Tournament?  Heh Heh Heh.
    
    John

    FWIW,
    
    Wednesday nite: SJU at Georgetown @7:00PM ESPN
    
    Tune in and root for LOUIEEEE as he coaches his way to his 500th(!)
    win.
    
    Followed by: Geo. Tech vs. Duke @9:00
    
    1st meeting of the season between the REDMEN!!!!! and the hoya's
    
    GO LOUIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!
    
    Kev
    

    re: "...Toliet Bowl..."
    
    
    NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!
    
    Ninja made a_excellent spelling error.
    
    Maybe he IS a human???
    
    - Ninj', correct spelling is T-O-I-L-E-T.  HTH,
    
    Kev
    
    ;^)
    

 Geez if UConn has to gag could they atleast do it against somebody like BC?
 SU caught a gift last night for sure. Davey was awesome though can't deny
 that but Chris Smith looked like me on that steal/brick of a layup at the
 buzz. 

 Hey Joe, what's the scoop  with Autry's nickname "Red"? 11 years of watching
 the Big East and I still can't understand JB's substitution patterns. Also
 Joe I figured out why Billy's a free throw clanger at the end. He's tired.
 JB makes him play the entire game. I don't think I've seen him log any pine
 time in the last 3 SU games I've watched...

 Kev, big test for Werdamn. He's been playing big against lesser centers
 now he faces the "MEN"...Seems to me that Avent also gave him fits so 
 physical centers are not his bag....of course Malik will probably score
 40 and the Hoyas will loose by 2...

 mike    

    weel, eye nevur one uh spellign be wen eye wuz uh kidd.
    
    ninge

    Hey, "loose by 2" has a very, very nice sound to it.  BTW,
    since I guess I'm the (acting) Spelling Police, gotcha on "loose".
    Drop a_O and you make it right. ;^)
    
    I wish UConn wouldn't fold at the end of close games.  I was really
    hoping they'd ko SU and give LOUIEEE & his guys a bit of breathing
    room.  Oh well.....
    
    I think Weirdann will be very much outplayed by Mutombo in the
    rebounding department but offensively, he'll hold his own.  It is
    going to be a nip and tuck battle and the Hoya 3pt. potential
    could make the difference (in your favor too) 8*(
    
    Without hoping for anything too serious, maybe BOTH Mourning and
    Mutombo could somehow find themselves out of commision for the game?
    
    only kidding, even with them in the game, WE'RE GONNA CRUSH THEM!!!!!!
    Remember, we got LOUIEEE and (hehehe) you got JT!!!!
    Good vs. Evil
    Smart vs. Dumb
    Competent vs. (get the idea????)
    
    (btw, lest you get confused, LOUIEEE's column is the one on the
    LEFT)
    
    nya,nya....
    
    Kev
    
    

    Oh yeah, one other thing.
    
    Mikey, what gives with the Weirda*MM* stuff???
    
    kev
    

 Hey Kev, maybe you'd prefer Weir-DAME cause a dame is what he'll be
 actin' lik' cum wednesday....

 ;^)

 mike

    Mush-tomb :==play(ed) like a deadman and got squished too!
    
    Mourning  :==crybaby 'cause he knows he can't measure up
    
    double ;^)
    
    kev
    

    RE: SU's loss at PC
    
    Joe G., you mentioned that SU got destroyed on the boards, but it
    appeared that one of the big differences in this one was 3-point
    shooting.  PC made more than half of their 3's, whil SU was only
    something like 20%.  Also, I noticed that SU got almost no production
    from their bench, assuming Edwards started.  
    
    SU-UCONN game:
    I missed this one, but it sounds like Autry had a bad game.  He fouled
    out and didn't even lead SU in assists.  Important thing is SU won,
    though.
    
    Joe

>    SU-UCONN game:
>    I missed this one, but it sounds like Autry had a bad game.  He fouled
>    out and didn't even lead SU in assists.

Joe, Autry didn't play that badly.  He didn't score much, and his fouls
were caused in part by Smith's great penetration.  He also had a couple
of iffy touch fouls.  He's the one that will get most of the minutes
at the point in the big games...I think Boehiem's letting that be known.


Joe

> SU caught a gift last night for sure.

Mike, to some extent I almost agree, but you know, this has been
a consistent comment (in here and on WFAN) after a number of their
wins.  I'm starting to see a pattern here that was mentioned by
one of the Big East announcers during Sat's SU-PC game:  they
are winning the close games, and that bodes well for them in the
future.

It's a funny team.  They aren't talented offensively (if I had a
nickel for every "point-blank" shot they've missed, I'd be rich),
and I've mentioned a number of times that they allow much too
much penetration from the opposition's guards.  But they don't
get rattled, seem to create turnovers, and play well enough to
be 18-3, with road wins at Georgetown and UConn.

Everyone can handle the ball, they have 5 kids that can hit the
"3", they shoot foul shots pretty well (ie: they're close to 70%),
and they move the ball around.

They aren't a great team, but they're a solid, good team.  I don't
see them going out in the 2nd round of the NCAAs, but I don't see
them getting past the round of 8 either.



> Hey Joe, what's the scoop  with Autry's nickname "Red"? 

I think I heard it explained at one time, but I can't remember.


>11 years of watching the Big East and I still can't understand JB's
>substitution patterns.

This has definitely been a fault in years past, but I actually
think I understand what he's doing this year.  McRae's minutes
have been pretty consistent...just enough to give LeRon a blow
in the big games (where Boehiem needs the experience down low),
and more against teams that don't challenge much inside.
McCorkle has only had significant minutes in the 2 UConn games
(in which he's played VERY WELL --> he's going to be a good
one...I like his cool approach to the game), otherwise Hopkins
is used at the guard spots.  McCorkle gives them a good outside
shot; Hopkins gives them some ball-handling and good "D".


> Kev, big test for Werdamn. He's been playing big against lesser centers
> now he faces the "MEN"...Seems to me that Avent also gave him fits so 
> physical centers are not his bag....

This may be true, 'cause he's never had a big game against SU, and
they've always been physical inside.


Joe

    In between A.M. signal fadeout, I managed to get part of the 
    PC-SH game on my way home from class.
    
    PC shot ~20% from the floor in the 1st half vs. SH ~36% (down by
    ~4).
    
    PC at one part in the 2nd was down by ~10 but managed, by going
    man to man, to go up by ~6-8 and hang in there for a 1-2(?) point
    victory!
    
    Looks like the Pirates Top-25 visit was short lived.
    
    Kev
    

re: -1

Providence is really mucking things up not only in the BE, but for
the NCAA committee.  I figured them to be a solid 8-9 team, but
they're inching toward the middle of the BE, and may end up with
16 or more wins.  Their biggest wins were against G'town and SU,
but both were at home.  I would have included the road win at
UConn, but I don't know where UConn is these days...

PC still has big home games vs. St. John's, UConn and Vill, and
big road games vs. G'town, SU and Vill.  They'll need 2 of the
3 at home, and one on the road to be serious NCAA contenders,
IMO.


Joe

    Joe,
    I don't remember much of the details but the PC announcers were
    babbling something about the # of PC wins against ranked teams
    and it was something like 6 for 7.  That kind of performance
    certainly has to be considered in the decision to invite to the
    big dance.
    
    I'm glad for the Friars, they helped SJU!
    
    Kev
    
    GO LOUIEEEE!!!!
    

    re: 27 - It was a tough loss (to SU), but we get the O-men back in NY
    at the end of February.  Then, we'll see.......
    
    re: 28 - SJU can be found on WCBS AM at 880 on the dial.
    
    Are the Redmen the Number 5 team in the US?  No way, this die-hard SJU
    fan says.  I go to all the games, and there's lots of shortcomings. 
    But, this team does find a way to win the close ones (excepting the SU
    game).  
    
    Sealy has played great, and Buchanan has provied steady point guard
    play.  The Singleton/Scott duo at BF is adequate, and Werdann at C has
    been playing great.  The one real poor spot continues to be at 2G, where
    Sproling has not been the answer.  I can't get anyone to agree with
    me, but the answer is 6'8" Fr. Sergio Lyuk....he's "court smart", and he 
    can shoot the hell out of the ball.
    
    Tonight's game vs. Gtown is a tough call.  The Redmen play well in
    Landover, but on the other hand, have lot's of trouble with Gtown's big
    guys, especially Werdann.  Hope we can pick up a close one to stay in
    1st in the BE.
    
    Redmen Phil   
    

    HEY PHIL,
    
    WELCOME BACK BUDDIE!!!!!
    
    I'm glad you listened to the message I gave Pete (?) fer U to get
    UR but back here ;^)
    
    Do you always get the same seat at Alumni Hall?  
    
    <set tongue-in-cheek>
    
    SJU #5??  Hey, get with the program... If that's what the polls
    say, then it MUST be true!  Have you ever known national rankings
    to be in error??????
    
    ;^)
    
    To me also Sprolling has been a big disapointment but Weirdann's
    tremendous improvement (including fewer fouls) has compensated.
    
    Stick around for the season, ok Phil?  
    
    WISH POSTING:
    	I wish somebody could post B-E Standings, W-L record with
    the names of the teams they lost to.  Could make for a very interesting
    and confusing matrix.
    	i.e.   SJU	14-2	Syracuse, Seton Hall
    	       UConn     X-5    SJU, Syracuse, PC, SJU, etc.
    
    
    Anybody?
    
    Kev
    

    
    I have really enjoyed PC's last couple of games.  Especially the SU
    win.  I watched with my folks (AVID PC fans) who kept screaming at the
    TV when SU was closing up PC's 19 point lead.
    
    I think they're going to make it to the NCAA's.  Got a big rest between 
    now and next Wednesday's G'town game, and I hope the Friars don't cool 
    down.  Boy, if we had Pitino back!
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS_SU_Grad_PC_fan

>    WISH POSTING:
>    	I wish somebody could post B-E Standings, W-L record with
>    the names of the teams they lost to.  Could make for a very interesting
>    and confusing matrix.

Here it is (including games completed thru 1/30):

					teams they lost to:
					------------------
	Syracuse	6-3		Vill, Pitt, PC
	St. John's	6-3		SU, SH, G
	Georgetown	5-3		PC, Vill, SU
	Seton Hall	5-4		G, SU(2), PC
	Pitt		4-4		UConn, SJ, Vill, G
	Villanova	4-4		SH, Pitt, UConn, SJ
	Providence	4-5		BC, SH, Pitt(2), SJ
	UConn		3-6		SJ(2), SU(2), PC, SH
	BC		1-6		UConn, SJ, G(2), SH, Vill


Mike, you may still be right about the BE champ having 6 losses.
You definitely were right about UConn.  I never thought they'd
have the problems they're having.  Just goes to show you that
there's more to the game than just talent...the intangibles like
team chemistry, playing on a roll...have a lot to do with it.
And UConn doesn't have a true point guard either.

I mentioned that I thought St. John's has been a "fast start"
team in recent years, so I checked into it and:

	'88-89		4-1
	'89-90		6-1
	'90-91		6-2



Joe

 The Big East Tournment should be a dandy this year the only team that
 couldn't put three games together and win it is BC...

 As for last night dam those Hoyas can't do anything easy. John has to 
 play Mourning more by himself. Start giving Mutumbo a bit more rest...

>    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS_SU_Grad_PC_fan

Sean,  how is this possible ?

 Big East Tournment Winner odds by me myself and I...


		SU  		 3:1
                Pitt		 4:1
		Hall		 6:1
		Gtown		 7-1
		SJU		 7-1
		PC		10:1
		Nova		15:1
		UConn		15:1
		BC	       100:1

 mike

 Hey Joe, it is easy. Sean obviously also got an education at SU... ;^)

 mike

    Anybody give BC much of a chance against ND tonight?  It sure would be
    nice to see the BE's last-place team to beat the Irish at South Bend.
    
    I was shocked (but very ecstatic) that ND blew that 7-point lead to UVA
    on Sat., but I can't believe they tried that pass the length of the
    court in the closing seconds.
    
    Joe
    

	They beat them last year if I'm not mistaken and BC is better this year
than last so I'd say chances are very good Digger's boys are gong down again.

mike    

    What would be interesting is to see who's left on each of the BE team's
    regular season schedules.
    
    For SJU, it breaks down as follows:
    
    Home:  SHU			Away:  PC
           Vill			       BC
           SU			       Pitt
           Gtown
    
    I'm hoping for the following to happen:  Win tomorrow vs. SHU, win vs.
    Vill, and split with SU/Gtown for a 3-1 record at home the rest of the
    year.  On the road, I'm hoping for a 2-1 record, with wins at PC and
    BC, and a loss at Pitt.
    
    That would leave SJU at 11-5 in the BE, which should leave them at #1
    or 2.  Even going 2-2 at home could net them spots 1-3 in the BE,
    especially the way things have been going.
    
    About SJU's fast start, I agree;  however, I really believe this year
    will be different.
    
    Louie goes for #500 tomorrow afternoon in the Garden vs. SHU, the only
    game all year SJU was embarrased.  I look for a 71-64 win for the
    Redmen.
    
    Redmen Phil
                            

    re .137:
    
    Is tomorrow's SJU-SHU game on TV?
    
    
    py

>    P.S. Oh, you mean how is it possible that I like LABATTS?  Whoops.

No, not surprised there.  Having grown-up in upstate NY, I started
early with Labatts.


Joe

    The BC-ND game last night was a pretty good one.  ND had a 10-point
    lead in the first half, but BC closed to within 1 at halftime.  Then BC
    built a 10-point lead early in the 2nd half, but ND came back and made
    it close the rest of the way.  BC made quite a few mistakes down the
    stretch, but they did score on their last 2 possesions and Bennett missed
    a trey at the buzzer.  The guy who hit the winning shot for BC was a
    freshman, and after the game the announcers were talking about how
    young BC's team is.  Sounds like they might have a pretty good team in
    a year or 2.  Anyway, I'm glad BC won.
                               
    Joe

    Gimme them Canadian brews,Labatt's and Molson(beer)
    
    As the Canadian's call 'em; Give me a Blue or Canadian!
    

    The Redmen go to 7-3 (16-3 overall) with its win Saturday over SHU, a
    team that embarrassed the Redmen in January. 
    
    The Redmen got a great effort from PG Jason Buchanan (26 pts, 13 of 13
    free throws), Rob Werdann and Malik Sealy (22 points, but most at the
    end).  BF Billy Singleton also had a fine game.  
    
    Next up is tomorrow evening at MSG vs. Villanova, who will be looking
    to avenge a Redmen win at 'Nova ten (10) days ago.  This is an
    important game for SJU, because following this game, they go on the
    road for games at PC, BC and Pitt, before completing their regular
    seson BE schedule vs. Syracuse and Georgetown at MSG.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    

    Phil,
    	You forgot to mention 1 very importantly datistik(tm).
    
    The win over the Pirates was also LOUIEEE!!!!!!'s  500th
    win as a coach.  All of them have been by a SJU team.
    
    Ironic, his 1st win ever was over Georgetown.  Had they won on
    Wednesday, the Hoya's would have been "enshrined" 2x!  
    
    Congrats LOUIEEEEE!!!!!
    
    Kev
    

(including games completed thru 2/2):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	7-3		Vill, Pitt, PC		PC, @BC, @SJ, Pitt,
							@Vill, G
St. John's	7-3		SU, SH, G		Vill, @PC, @BC, @Pitt,
							SU, G
Georgetown	5-3		PC, Vill, SU		PC, Vill, @UC, @SH,
							Pitt, UC, @SJ, @SU
Seton Hall	5-5		G, SU(2), PC, SJ	@Pitt, Pitt, G, Vill,
							@UC, BC
Pitt		4-4		UConn, SJ, Vill, G	SH, BC, @SH, SJ, @G,
							@SU, @BC, UC
Villanova	4-5		SH, Pitt, UConn, SJ,	@SJ, @G, PC, BC, @SH,
				UC			SU, @PC
Providence	4-5		BC, SH, Pitt(2), SJ	@G, SJ, @SU, @Vill,
							UC, BC, Vill
UConn		4-6		SJ(2), SU(2), PC, SH	BC, G, @PC, @G, SH,
							@Pitt
BC		1-7		UConn, SJ, G(2), SH,	@UC, @Pitt, SJ, SU,
				Vill, SU		Vill, PC, @Pitt, SH

 Well update that to Pitt 5-4 the Hall 5-6. In a close game throughout
 The Hall turned the ball over in to many crucial situations to steal
 one at Pitt's friendly field house. The only person to stop Shorter
 all night was Evans with some coaching beauties that he's becoming
 famous for. Clearly he's the problem with this Pitt team last night
 arguing with Bobby Martin on the court. He benched Jason Mattews last
 night and started a freshman? This guy will soon be joining the ranks
 of JB, Deano, Stomper, Hitsome etc for wasting talent. What he did with
 Smith, Lane, Gore, Brookins and gang a few years ago was disgusting..

 Dehere for the Hall has got to find more control. He does so many good
 things but he's making mistakes at crucial time especially crunch time.
 Avent was again unstoppable except for his teammates and his own shooting
 touch. Still think this deep enough and plays good enough defense to go
 far but they're turnover plagued and will end up doing themselves in...

 too bad the two in hand that the Hoyas have in hand weren't against BC...

 ;^)

 mike    

    Mike,
    
    gotta agree with you 120% on Evans.  When is Pitt gonna wake up and
    give him the walking papers?  Maybe if he doesn't make it to the Sweet
    16 with this dreamteam.  
    
    	--dan'l

> too bad the two in hand that the Hoyas have in hand weren't against BC...

Mike, they were lucky to win their 2 games with BC, why push the percentages...

They're redefining Hoya Paranoia.  They can't look in the mirror.


Joe

Pretty smug up there at the top Joe are we?  ;^) Just remember you're not alone
up there and we still got an ace in the hole for our visit to the Dome...



 Jimmy B.'s bound to panic and substitute his guards every 5 seconds as they
 screw up and we'll win....

 mike

    lest ye forget,
    
    the OTHER 1st place team plays tonight - 'Nova invades NY.
    
    GO LOUIEEE!!!!!!
    
    #501 is waiting for you
    
    Kev
    

    Didn't catch the score, but heard that 'Nova pulled the upset over St.
    J's last nite.
    
    =Bob=

 61-51 was the final. SJU's first loss at home. Who's SU play this week
 besides Notre Dame? If they shame the conference by loosing to ND again
 I'm going to worite the commissioner and get them kick out of the league..

 ;^)

 Big East Football Conference was announced yesterday: Miami, SU, BC, Pitt,
 Rutgers, Temple, West Virgina and Virgina Tech....Miami should remain un-
 defeated till the year 2000...Problem is we may never see the year 2000..
 thanks george...;^(

 Big one tonight for the Hoyas. A win would move them into a second place
 tie with SJU. They owe PC. It's simple stop Murdock they win. Only problem
 is the only way to stop him is to lock him in the locker before the game.

 mike

    The Redmen dropped a game last night to 'Nova they have similarly been
    losing the past 5-10 years; a home game to a team they beat on the road
    that they should beat.  However, I said it last week, when the Redmen
    were #5, and I'll say it again.  They are not one of the top teams in
    the U.S.!  Going 6+ scoreless minutes last night was a joke; their
    foul shooting was, well, foul (somewhere around 45%).
    
    With three straight road games (vs. PC, BC and Pitt) and home games
    against SU and Gtown, the Redmen seem prime for their normal end
    of the season folding.
    
    The only question is: who will knock them out of the first round of the
    BE tourney this year?
    
    Redmen Phil 
                                         

 Murdock has 23 against SU so they didn't stop him cold. I'm sure he had
 a few assists as well as a few steal and a few Rebounds as well against
 SU. He also set the stage for the rest to excel with excellent leadership.
 rarely does he try to force an issue or get bent out of shape over a play.

 Only an SU fan would consider holding Murdock to 23 as stopping him. Maybe
 this new PC fan stuff you've been talking about is a quise for a disgrunted
 SU fan, Sean? 

 many smiles...

 mike    

 OK Sean fair enough but clarification I meant on offense as far as
 the forcing the issue comment was concerned.

 Anyway Hoyas win again! From what they said on the radio sure sounded
 like they won it with the defense (surprise surprise) 14 blocks?

 Didn't get to see any of it and only heard the last three minutes or so
 in the car anyone got details?

 mike

> Who's SU play this week besides Notre Dame?

No one.


>If they shame the conference by loosing to ND again
> I'm going to worite the commissioner and get them kick out of the league..

Hey Mike, what do you call Georgetown's performance against DePaul ?  On
their home floor, no less !!!


re: SU's defense against Murdock

Mike, whether Sean is an SU fan or not, he told it like it was.  Murdock
had 16-18 at the 1/2 and scored only 5-7 in the 2nd 1/2.  He had at least
8-10 points from the line, so that translates into 6 or 7 FGs.  For a
guy that was averaging around 35 in the 5-6 previous games going into
the SU game, I'd say that he was definitely STOPPED.  He did not make
the difference in that one.  Providence's rebounding did.


Mike, your hatred for SU seems stronger than ever.  Give them their due.
Pre-season they were #4 in the BE and 15-20 in the country.  They're having
a fine season.


Joe

Gougetown started strong, then went in the toilet. 
P was only behind 23-17, then G went on another tear 35-17, then G
cooled down again. G does not impress me as a very disciplined club.
They'd look sharp for a bit, then all of a sudden you'd think you were
watching a playground game....  ultra sloppy.... I can see why they're
not doing that hot this year.

Mike JN

    
    Bummer!  :^(
    
    That game annoyed me for the whole night.  Georgetown just went too far
    ahead too early.  The Hoyas looked "strong" more than anything else.
    Forced bad plays by the Friars, physcially took their plays and their
    territory, and forced PC to foul way too often.  Good shooting (3
    pters., too) and nice up-tempo game (to the announcers surprise).
    
    PC was a disappointment.  Murdock didn't seem to warm up except for a
    couple of spurts.  Bragg is still playing strong, a bit too fiesty, but
    inspired.  Everybody was making mistakes and nobody could make a shot
    stick.  Bad passing.  It was frustrating.  4-6 in the Big East just seems 
    so much worse than 5-5.  
    
    I hated that game.  And one more thing (opinion alert) - sure Dikembe is 
    good, but to constantly gush and praise his blocking all night long, c'mon
    the guy towers over everyone, he's naturally gonna get more than the 
    average C.
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    
>    I hated that game.  And one more thing (opinion alert) - sure Dikembe is 
>    good, but to constantly gush and praise his blocking all night long, c'mon
>    the guy towers over everyone, he's naturally gonna get more than the 
>    average C.
    
 
 Sean the reason they gush over them is the fact that Dikembe doesn't swat
 them into the cheap seats. He generally blocks the ball to a teammate or
 himself. 

 Joe pre-season rankings are never indicative of what happens once they
 throw the ball up. UConn was #1 going in now they're #8 in the conference.
 Not only does SU have talent at all posistions they have OWENS. It'll be
 a cold day in hell before I give them credit. 

 Depaul has been hot recently winning 10 out of their last 12 previous games
 and are playing hard for a spot in the tourney. John is playing for the BET
 regualar season title at this point I assume because his frosh are bound to
 die an ugly death in the tourney. ND has been getting beat by the Sisters
 of Mercy....


 mike

    'nothewr reason why GU really took PC out of their game
    was the 15 blocked shots.
    
    I thought it wasn't allowed for the CLEMSON REF's to to back-to-back
    games for the same team????(i.e. SJU vs GU, PC vs GU).  If
    it weren't for the dollar bills in the zebra pockets a'bulgin,
    Ida never guess that they were paid to make "slightly preferential
    calls" for the Hoya's. :^) [many times]
    
    In the SJU game, while there were many Yecch!'s, the ones that gome
    to mind was the ~:06 second "freeze" at the half while GU went the
    length of the court, took a shot and went up by 1.
    
    Let's also not mention the differnec in fouls called.  Lemme see,
    what was it , something like 8(GU) vs 28(SJU).  Yeah Right!
    
    Lasted night, GU just cheated, plain & simple!!!!  Steps, 3-second
    no calls, hacks, flying elbows, you name it, they did it all
    with help of the 3 blind mice.  (many, many ;^)
    
    However, JT DOES have a group of good, respectful gentlemen.  I
    thought it was quite sportsmanlike of them to shake the Friar's
    hands without slugging them at the game's end!
    
    my $0.02
    
    Kev
    

Speaking of Hoyas

Didn't Sir John of Hendry tell us what that (Hoya) came from?
Something about a cheer in ?Greek/Latin? that said HOYA (mumble).

Somebody find The Ninja and ask him to please `splain that again.

Thanks
Mike JN

    Back in the days when Georgetown was a serious football power, there
    was a cheer used there called Hoya Saxa.  This is a combination of
    Latin and Greek and means, roughly translated, "what rocks", in
    reference to their linemen being as hard to get through as a wall of
    boulders.  The name Hoya has gradually been used to refer to
    Georgetown's teams, hence the name Georgetown Hoyas (not Georgetown
    Hoya's (sic), as someone consistently puts in here).  I have no idea
    why they use a bulldog as a mascot, I feel they should have someone
    dressed up as a rock instead.
    
    John

>One guy had super long stretch arms etc, but the biggest sturdiest
>guy was the Rock Man, who was made out of Rocks.  He'd be the
>perfect mascot.....
    
    His name was The Thing.  He was a member of Marvel's Fantastic Four but
    was replaced by the She-Hulk for a while during the mid-80s.  He was
    also the main character in each issue of Marvel Team Up in which he'd
    team up with another super hero each month and beat the caca out of
    some bad guys.  His motto was:
    
    	"It's clobberin' time!"
    
    My favorite issue was when he teamed up with Iron Man and they...well,
    we'll save this hysteria for Junk Notes.
    
    	--dan'l

Thanks John.

I have to say, it seems kind of goofy. Saxa is Latin for rock, alright;
so I could see them calling themselves the Saxas (or Saxa's... to keep
everyone happy), but if hoya is a Greek approximation of `what', they're
calling themselves the Georgetown Whats! If this is true, somebody...
somewhere... needs to have their saxa whacked until they peditum!

Mike JN

(including games completed thru 2/6):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	7-3		Vill, Pitt, PC		PC, @BC, @SJ, Pitt,
							@Vill, G
St. John's	7-4		SU, SH, G, Vill		@PC, @BC, @Pitt,
							SU, G
Georgetown	6-3		PC, Vill, SU		Vill, @UC, @SH,
							Pitt, UC, @SJ, @SU
Seton Hall	5-6		G, SU(2), PC, SJ	Pitt, G, Vill,
				Pitt			@UC, BC
Pitt		5-4		UConn, SJ, Vill, G	BC, @SH, SJ, @G,
							@SU, @BC, UC
Villanova	5-5		SH, Pitt, UConn, SJ,	@G, PC, BC, @SH,
				UC			SU, @PC
Providence	4-6		BC, SH, Pitt(2), SJ	SJ, @SU, @Vill,
				G			UC, BC, Vill
UConn		5-6		SJ(2), SU(2), PC, SH	G, @PC, @G, SH,
							@Pitt
BC		1-8		UConn(2), SJ, G(2),	@Pitt, SJ, SU,
				SH, Vill, SU		Vill, PC, @Pitt, SH

    Another ugly loss for the Redmen last night on the road at PC.  Malik
    Sealy once again could not get it going, and when that is the the case,
    the Redmen struggle.
    
    With games this week on the road at BC and Pitt, it could get real ugly
    for the Redmen.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Surprised not to see some SU bashing in here regarding the University's
suspending 7 players last Friday (re-instated that night by the NCAA),
and the team's narrow (very narrow) victory over Notre Dame.  Surely,
I thought Mike would have written one of those, "they're an embarrassment
to the Big East...they were lucky to win...shouldn't have won...", type
commentaries.

I agree, they shouldn't have won!  But as I said before, this team
has made a habit of winning games they shouldn't win, and have won
ALL of the close ones (they've been beaten by more than 10 pts in
each of their 3 losses).  Notre Dame probably played their best game
all season, and it was SWEET REVENGE when Billy "O" put in that
no-look, over-the-head banker to win it.  I wonder how that one
tasted in the mouths of Bennett, Sweet, Tower, etc. ?

As for the suspensions, it appears the University is going to go
out of their way to cooperate with the NCAA during this investigation.
I'm sure the message here is that SU did NOT WILLINGLY violate any
rules, and that they are as interested as the NCAA in correcting
any problems.  I commend them on this approach.  As Boehiem said
Saturday, "these kids are pretty shook up...they're only 19-, 20-
year old kids who don't know what they've done wrong".

Let's hope the kids and the school are as innocent as they're trying
to appear.


as for the others in the BE:

	Mike, you gotta be feeling good about the Hoyas.  They're
	making a nice turn-around, now that Mourning is back.

	Seton Hall's win at Oklahoma Sat should be a big plus for
	them come NCAA invite time.

	St. John's ?  Well, they rely so much on Sealy and Buchanan
	on the offensive end...

	BC played a good game at Pitt.  I'm concerned about SU's trip
	to BC this coming Saturday.  They almost always play SU tough
	here in Boston, and it seems they're ready to upset someone.
	With SU living on the edge in most games, one has to go the
	other way sooner or later.  Of course, I'll be at the game
	to see it happen...


Joe

    I kind of figured SU would play a bad game after hearing about the
    suspensions Friday night, but I also thought they'd win a little easier
    than they did.  Poor ND (heh heh), that's the 2nd time (UVA the other) 
    they lost to a top-20 team after having a big lead.
    
    RE Ownens' shot
    Not only was that a great shot while facing away from the basket, but
    it was a good play in scrapping for the rebound too.
    
    Joe
    

The local Sports guessers in the newspaper have been touting Arkansas
for the last week or so as THE team who could take it to UNLV.
Kinda funny, this morning there was an article saying either Syracuse or
Georgetown were the only two teams who could maybe beat UNLV.

Maybe they oughta face the facts.

Any team can be beat, given the right amount of luck, but UNLV is the
best college team in the nation, whether they stumble on the way to the
National Title or not. You could move that team en masse into the NBA
and they'd be real competetive (unlike a number of current NBA teams).

Mike JN

 Joe real big of SU to suspend them right before a Nationally telivised
 game huh? Like the really didn't expect the NCAA to reinstate them? Like
 the fat cats in TV land would have allow the lost revenue to happen. Give
 me a break it was grandstanding at it's best. I can't bash them over the
 ND game because I didn't see it.

 Mourning and Mutumbo is working out very nice defensively and on the boards
 but the offense is an abortion at best. Big game for the frosh tonight as
 UConn will turn up the pressure defensively. They must work hard on screening
 for Joey Brown on the inbounds as he's tough to take it away from.

  Oh yeah Joe, another little thing, you tried to point out to me that SU
  was successful in stopping Murdock because he only had 5 in the second
  half. Did PC not build it's insurmontable lead in the first half when he
  was unstoppable and also when crunch time came who hit the buckets? Bottom
  line is Murdock is the Big East player of the year! If anyone else gets it
  it's a shame...

 as always your smiling buddy


 mike

>Kinda funny, this morning there was an article saying either Syracuse or
>Georgetown were the only two teams who could maybe beat UNLV.

I don't think Syracuse could beat UNLV, unless they had a terrific
outside shooting game, coupled with a strong game from Ellis (which
would translate into SU playing UNLV even on the boards).  And
on top of that, UNLV would have to play below average for them.

UNLV has too much.  When you package great defense and high-explosion
on offense, they'll be hard to beat.  Offense takes a night off once
in a while, but defense is pretty constant...and they seem to enjoy
it.

I think an Arizona might give them some fits because they're so big
up front, and have decent ball-handlers in the backcourt.  SU's backcourt
allows too much penetration, and they don't score enough.  I can't see
them holding UNLV to 70 or less, and I don't think SU would be in the
80s against that defense.

IMO, on a good night, Syracuse can play with anyone else, but it
would take an extraordinary performance against UNLV.


Joe

> Joe real big of SU to suspend them right before a Nationally telivised
> game huh? Like the really didn't expect the NCAA to reinstate them?

This came up during a radio talkshow, and CBS' Mike Francesa shot it
down, saying that the NCAA would NOT feel pressured to reinstate the
kids just because the game was on CBS.  In fact, he thought that if
anything, there was a great opportunity to for the NCAA to do the
opposite, and send a clear message to all schools.

As it turned out, the NCAA said that no violations had occurred.
They also said that reinstating players under these circumstances
was common.


>  Oh yeah Joe, another little thing, you tried to point out to me that SU
>  was successful in stopping Murdock because he only had 5 in the second
>  half. Did PC not build it's insurmontable lead in the first half when he
>  was unstoppable and also when crunch time came who hit the buckets?

Mike, while Murdock did "help" build PC's big lead (he hit the 1st 2
buckets in the 2nd 1/2 to make it an 18-point lead), he certainly was
nowhere to be found while SU whittled that lead down to 2 or 3 with
3 minutes to go.  He hit some free throws at the end, but the fact is
David Johnson limited his ability to get a shot off.

We get another look at him against Mr. Johnson tomorrow night.


Joe

 Joe, Francesca also works for CBS last I knew. Of course he would say those
 things. Of course again it could be true what he said and what you believe
 but given the way it went down and $$$ involved I believe that it was grand-
 standing. Also given the NCAA's can still blast UNLV for something Tark did
 13 years ago, it's no surprise to me that they said go ahead and play now we'll
 talk later...

 I can see Davey being an effective defender against Murdock but I got to 
 believe that if he wasn't scoring Eric was doing something to help his team
 out. We'll see tomorrow. PC is hot!

 mike

    
    re. NCAA reinstatement
    
    What a bunch of baloney!  Everybody patting everybody else's back so
    that we all get the "appearance" of colleges playing by the rules.
    The NCAA would be real happy if they never had to discipline teams;
    SU took advantage of that fact.  Now SU is publicly chastising the
    president of their biggest booster club ("thanks for all the help,
    but you shouldn't have done that, you bad boy").  I sure hope that 
    someday, somehow, all this grandstanding ends up doing some actual
    good for college athletics.
    
    re. tonight
    
    Can PC finally win on the road?  Can they really tie up the BE
    standings?  One can only hope.  Go Bragg!!!!
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

 As long as PC shoots better than the Hoyas did last night they'll be ok.
 If they had packed the UConn zone any tighter last night the basketball 
 wouldn't have fit in the lane. Yet good ole Stomper kept trying to have
 the boys jam it in there. Yet as bad as they played it was still there
 for them to take but it wasn't to be. Mourning must start popping that
 shot from the top of the key. Only good thing about last night was they
 handled the pressure. Seems like Calhoun figured out what the rest of the
 world knew that Cerulick is a stiff. He must have played all of 2 minutes
 last night. Smith and Gynn were excellent last night and the difference in
 this one. 

 ah the joys of college basketball. How could these guys blow Duke away
 and then loose to these guys? Hoyas will have to find an outside shooter
 or two for the NCAA's cause I got a feeling they'll end up in the same
 bracket as UNLV. 

 is tonight's game on ESPN? 

 mike 

    Wife booted me away from the UConn game with ~7:00 to
    go.  Huskies were leading at that time.
    The AM edition of the Glob didn't have the final score
    so......
    
    Who won, final score?
    
    Kev
    

    UConn by around 5, score was in high 50s/low 60s.  I was watching a far
    more important sporting event last night, namely, the greatest
    in-season tournament in college winter sports, the Beanpot, so I have
    no details on what happened between the Rocks (or is it the Whats?) and
    the Dogs.  I guess the Dogs p*ssed all over them.  :-)
    
    John
    
    

Yeah, the Huskies upset the Saxas, but it was close.  At one point
it looked bleak for the Huskies, cause they stopped to mate, causing
the delay of the game.  The Saxas cooled off during that period, 
and the Huskies came back to win....

>    the greatest in-season tournament in college winter sports, the Beanpot,

BC Hockey = SU basketball

>    I sure hope that 
>    someday, somehow, all this grandstanding ends up doing some actual
>    good for college athletics.

Like, maybe they should give these kids expense money and throw out
some of these sh*t rules...like giving a kid a ride to the airport,
or lending him change for the pay phone, etc.

>                             -< Go Friars Go!!!!! >-

Mike, you should make your p-name:  "GO _anyone playing syracuse_, GO!!!!!"


> As long as PC shoots better than the Hoyas did last night they'll be ok.

Let's see if they bang (and get away with it cleanly) the way they did
at Providence.


> Hoyas will have to find an outside shooter
> or two for the NCAA's cause I got a feeling they'll end up in the same
> bracket as UNLV. 

Mike, this isn't the NBA, they can't sign someone off of waivers !  :^)


Re: UNLV's bracket

I sure hope the selection committee deliberately packs UNLV's bracket
with the best #2, #3, etc. and gives them a tough road to the Final Four.
I know that the #1 team in the tournament should get #8 (the 4th #2),
and so on, but after the NCAA swallowed and let them back in the tourney,
the ONLY justice left is make it as difficult as possible for them.

I'd like to see 3 of Duke, UCLA, Pitt, New Mexico St., LSU, G'town in
UNLV's path.


> is tonight's game on ESPN? 

No.  But I'm sure it'll be on the Providence station (WPRI ??).


Joe

 Haha good one Joe you're right they can't draft one off the waviers. I wonder
 what happen to Sabol the white dude they had last year. He could atleast fill
 it up from the outside. Kelley's nothing more than a banger. Harrison's ok
 but inconsistent. They should also run more baseline screens for Churchwell
 as this is his shot.

 Anyways my cable box is screwedup so I don't get nesn anymore so what happened
 last night?

 Soon as the NCAA's start Joe, I'll come around on SU...


 You can bet your last buck that they'll load UNLV's bracket do you really
 think the NCAA wants them to repeat?

 mike

> Anyways my cable box is screwedup so I don't get nesn anymore so what happened
> last night?

Syracuse won, 101-83.  Murdock had 16.  SU had both Autry and Johnson
playing him, and both did a fine job of making it difficult for him
to get his shot off.  It's the 1st time Murdock has been held to under
20 since the 2nd game of the year (ie: back in November).  Tough break
for the kid, as there were NBA scouts there just to see him play.  The
Providence radio station had Scotty Sterling (GM, Sacramento) on at 1/2-
time and he said that he likes Murdock, but once SU got a sizable lead,
it took Murdock out of the game.  He also credited SU's defense against
him, specifically noting that Johnson's size and quickness were tough
on Murdock.  This may hurt him, as most of the guards in the NBA will
have a size and quickness advantage on him.

The announcers (early in the game) were saying this game could
be key to who gets BE Player of the Year (Owens or Murdock).  If
that's the case Mike, Owens might have wrapped it up.  He had one
NBA low-post move that even McHale would have enjoyed.

SU's defense on the whole was good.  Everyone on Syracuse had a good
game.  They made 10 of 16 3-pointers (10 is their all-time high), and
4 different players hit 3's.  Edwards had (I believe a career high)
19 points, as did Johnson.  Billy had 25 (20 in the 1st 1/2).


Some interesting info for you SU fans:

	-  Boeheim has a career 65+ winning % on the road
	-  SU has 4 regular season BE titles (I thought it was
	   only 2 or maybe 3)...2 BE tournament titles
	-  Syracuse has averaged 28 wins the last 4 years
	-  only Syracuse and UNLV have averaged 26 wins in the
	   last 5 years


> You can bet your last buck that they'll load UNLV's bracket do you really
> think the NCAA wants them to repeat?

I hope like hell that this is the prevailing attitude throughout the
NCAA.  Hell, for television alone I'd think the more appealing matchups
would be the best they can throw at UNLV.


re: NESN

Can someone tell me how often BE games are on NESN and Sportschannel ?


Joe

Hey Kev and Phil, sorry, but I'll be rooting for BC tonight.
With SU coming in here Sat, I want BC to get their upset out
of the way before then.  They always give SU a tough time
here (I've seen 2 heart-breaking upsets), and I have this
uneasy feeling that they're due for a big win (too many
close games lately).


Joe

> You can bet your last buck that they'll load UNLV's bracket do you really
> think the NCAA wants them to repeat?

    Apparently the answer to this question is an unequivocable 'Yes'.
    Why else would they have done their shameless and unprecedented
    about-face on the probation charges?
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>   Why else would they [NCAA} have done their ... about-face .. ?
    
    Because the NCAA had no business putting a group of kids on probation
    for something that their coach MAY have done 15 years before.
    
    Every US Judge that this case came before blasted the NCAA for their
    total lack of due process, and for the bias and possible bigotry of
    their enforcement department. (Supreme Court Justice Whizzer White
    called the NCAA a "Star Chamber" - and he was being charitable.)
    
    The NCAA's original sentence against UNLV was motivated by spite and
    vengence - not justice.
    
    The only problem I had with the "about-face" is that it never should
    have been necessary in the first place.
    
    And if UNC is in the Vegas bracket, it is because they deserve to be.
    
    Anyhow Chris, what difference does it make ? Either Dean will outcoach
    The Shark (ha ha), or UNC doesn't have a real business whining, because
    they caint win anyway, right ?
    
    Doc
    

Does anybody have the Big East Standings/Won-Lost that they would post?

Thanks
Mike JN

>    Because the NCAA had no business putting a group of kids on probation
>    for something that their coach MAY have done 15 years before.

May have done.  Ho ho Doc, good one.  The NCAA's concluded he was guilty.
The fact that UNLV will escape virtually unpunished ('sept for those
two prize recruits, O'Bannon and Tarver, who flew the coup to UCLA - sniff,
sniff - as a result of the initial probation announcement).  

    
>    Every US Judge that this case came before blasted the NCAA for their
>    total lack of due process, and for the bias and possible bigotry of
>    their enforcement department.

So apparently you're in favor of the good ole US Government getting their
mits on college athletics.  You think things are bad *now*.  Just wait until
guys like Tom McMillen (who's primary motivations stem from the fact that
his alma mater, Maryland, was treated so rough by the NCAA's) and
Bill Bradley get there way.  Ugh.
    

>    The NCAA's original sentence against UNLV was motivated by spite and
>    vengence - not justice.

Sheer conjecture on your part.  I have no problem with the sentencing.
UNLV was never punished for their crimes of 15 years ago.  Tark tied
the whole thing up in the courts, which wasn't the NCAA's fault.  Now
it was time to pay the piper.

How do you think all the other schools that have ever been hit by probation
because of past transgressions feel?  The current players weren't to blame,
maybe not even the current coach.  And yet in each and every case they 
were not allowed to negotiate their punishment.
    

> The only problem I had with the "about-face" is that it never should
> have been necessary in the first place.

Sorry Doc, but the 'crimes should go unpunished' mentality doesn't wash
around me.
    

> Anyhow Chris, what difference does it make ? Either Dean will outcoach
> The Shark (ha ha), or UNC doesn't have a real business whining, because
> they caint win anyway, right ?

The real issue is that Vegas shouldn't be in this tournament in the
first place.  That the incredibly clean and above-board Tar Heels would
beat them would be an irony fit for Hollywood.


- ACC Chris    

    
    PC.  Ugh.
    
    I mean UGH.
    
    They did the same stinkin' thing they did against Georgetown on the
    road.  I'm not going to take away from SU, but PC beat themsleves
    yesterday because they couldn't handle the BASICS.  Passing, shooting,
    and ball control - the simple things that should be taken for granted
    were somehow beyond the grasp of PC.  Every time they stole the ball,
    they either gave the ball to SU (couldn't even call it a steal most of
    the time) or just missed the hoop.  Take away those types of blunders
    and you had two even (neither could be called awesome yesterday) teams.
    C'mon.  What is it with them on the road - are there clones in everybody's
    place?
    
    Aw well, keep your tie loosened all you want Beoheim, you're gonna 
    choke anyway :^)
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    Always interesteing how some folks wanna cry about letting the gov't
    get their mitts on another aspect of society, while supporting other
    causes that will result in the gov't taking over....  oh welll.
    
    In legal senses, wouldn't the statute of limitations have long expired
    in the UNLV case?  The NCAA is about as corrupt an institution as you
    can get in this country.
    
     JD

    > Always interesting how some folks wanna cry about letting the gov't
    > get their mitts on another aspect of society, while supporting other
    > causes that will result in the gov't taking over....
    
    Since I'm the one opposed to the gov't getting their hands on college
    athletics JD I presume you know the areas I want them to 'take over'?
    
    
    > The NCAA is about as corrupt an institution as you can get in this
    > country.
    
    Those are strong words.  I don't agree either, although I will agree
    that they're far from perfect. 
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    As I recall, UNLV *was* punished and was placed on two-year probation,
    which they served.  Another part of their punishmnent was a requirement
    that the university suspend Tarkanian, a very rare action in an NCAA
    disciplinary action, and one I don't believe they have tried to 
    repeat since.
    
    I think the evidence of wrongdoing by Tarkanian and UNLV was strong, 
    but in my opinion the university, which was willing to suspend 
    Tarkanian until he went to court and got a restraining order, met the
    requirements of their original punishment.  This case really does
    differ from other probations in that some innocent kids would have 
    suffered *twice*, while super-sleaze-ball Tarkanian walked away
    scot-free *again*.  If part of this little deal to put UNLV back in the
    tourney is Tark's ouster, then I have no problem with it.  It's justice
    served for both sides...
    
    glenn
     

>Does anybody have the Big East Standings/Won-Lost that they would post?

note 28.168 has the standings going into this past weekend.  Just add
the weekend, Mon and Tues results and you've got it.


Joe

    Chris,
    
    I base my NCAA generalization on watching the NCAA in action - as an
    athlete in college, and in their actions over the years.  Basically,
    its a spineless organization married to big bucks, overly influenced by
    a few folks (like the president of CBS sports...)
    
    ON the other point, I won't get into it, but search your memory.  
    
    JD

    There's no question the NCAA is married to big bucks, but try and name
    a sports organization that isn't.  Doesn't mean they're corrupt.
    
    FWIW I tend to agree with the spineless comment, and cite the
    latest round of "reform" that came out of the college presidents 
    convention last month.  There was alot of good politics and PR going
    on, but very little to help the student-athlete.
    
    :^(
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    (BTW I did search my memory banks and came away with a 
     "%SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched" message when
     trying to find a time I was encouraging government
     intrusion.  Call me ACC "Thoreau" Chris if ya want, although
     a strong military is kinda_a handy thing to have ...)

    Chris,
    
    I consider it corrupt.  You cain call it something else.  Oh, and was
    the military crack directed at me?  I've always supported the military.
    I don't support all the weapons systems they want (instead, I'd like
    them to be happy with what they NEED - but that's another story.)
    
    I know what the issue is, you may not 'remember' - but that's life.
    Back to basketball.  
    
    JD

 Joe, NESN has a tuesday nite game and a saturday nite doubleheader with
 the first game live and the second game a taped delayed broadcast of
 another saturday nite game.

 With that ESPN 2 nights a week and local coverage like channel 12 out of
 prov or wror out of NY for SJU games I was in seventh heaven. As soon as
 as I get done paying off my Big East Tourney tickets I'm getting the box
 fixed!

 mike

    

    Chris,  It wasn't sports related, so I won't get into that rathole
    again.
    
    JD

    ACChris,
    
    	I thin it had something to do with gummint investigators or a
    fed'ral prosecutor looking into crooked (alleged, I might add)
    contests.
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    re:JoeG rooting for BC against LOUIEEEEE
    
    Joe,
    	No offense taken.  I myself have been known to root for teams
    such as GU, SU, SH, 'Nova, UConn, BC and PC as long as they weren't
    playing AGAINST LOUIEEE and his guys that night!  ;^)
    
    	I also admire your manly fortitude and honorable god-fearing
    respect of the last_place_in_the_Big_East team (BC) against the
    (current) #1 team.  Just show how shaky, inconsistent, weak, 
    overrated and insecure the Orangemen really are!  (many smiles)
    
    	By the way, how ARE Owens classes coming along???  (many more ;^)!
    
    BTW - the BC SJU game is on ESPN tonight (9:00PM EST) If you watch,
    	  please make sure that you have a full box of Kleenex (tm),
    	  and a supply of those anti-depressent type pills.  SJU is coming
    	 off a 2 game losing streak and LOUIEEE still knows howto 
    	  motivate his guys.
    
    Kev
    

    re .194
    
    Yes JD, the SOL is probably why the NCAA is focusing on the Lloyd
    Daniels case.
    
    FWIW, let me say this : UNLV and Tarkanian are not saints. Okay ?
                            
    Now repeat after me Chris : UNLV and Tarkanian are not saints. 
    
    And I'm not for goverment takeover of the NCAA. But that in fact is a
    typical Chris red herring.
    
    The fack of the matter is that David Berst and the NCAA attempted to
    use coersion and intimidation to 'get' Tark. The National had a
    fantastic article on this mess a couple of months ago.
    
    Anyhow, no reasonable person can look at the case history of the NCAA
    vs. Tark, and not see the obvious abuses of power in the NCAA.
    
    Doc
                            

    > UNLV and Tarkanian are not saints
    
    Boy, talk about yer understatements ...  
    
    Tark is guilty of so many different things no one even bothers to
    mention his abysmal record on graduating his players.  Seems like a
    strange man to support, given his manipulative and self-serving
    track record.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    Whew, the Redmen got by BC last night up in Mass.
    
    Now, let's see if the Eagles can pull it together for a BIG upset vs.
    SU.
    
    SJU has Pitt away on Saturday, and then comes home to SU and Gtown.
    
    Piece of cake.  Ha ha ha........
    
    Redmem Phil 
                                    

>    	By the way, how ARE Owens classes coming along???  (many more ;^)!

I wouldn't know, but I'm sure classes don't mean a thing to someone
who's going to the NBA before his senior year.


>    BTW - the BC SJU game is on ESPN tonight (9:00PM EST) If you watch,
>    	  please make sure that you have a full box of Kleenex (tm),

Kev, I needed the Kleenex 'cause I was bored to tears.  I'm sure ESPN
wasn't too happy with that game.


Joe

(including games completed thru 2/13):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	8-3		Vill,Pitt,PC		@BC,@SJ,Pitt,@Vill,G
Georgetown	7-4		PC,Vill,SU,UC		@SH,Pitt,UC,@SJ,@SU
St. John's	8-5		SU,SH,G,Vill,PC		@Pitt,SU,G
Pitt		6-5		UConn,SJ,Vill,G,SH	SJ,@G,@SU,@BC,UC
Seton Hall	6-6		G,SU(2),PC,SJ,Pitt	G,Vill,@UC,BC
UConn		6-6		SJ(2),SU(2),PC,SH	@PC,@G,SH,@Pitt
Villanova	5-6		SH,Pitt,UConn,SJ,UC	PC,BC,@SH,SU,@PC
Providence	5-7		BC,SH,Pitt(2),SJ,G,SU	@Vill,UC,BC,Vill
BC		1-10		UConn(2),SJ(2),G(2),	SU,Vill,PC,@Pitt,SH
				SH,Vill,SU

    Ugly, ugly non-entertaining game too!
    
    Despite the fact that for almost the entire game there was never
    more than ~3point lead, the game was a chore to watch.  Neither
    team played well and the game reminded me of a JV type of game.
    Very sloppy, cold shooting (mostly from the outside w/ alot
    of in the paint "clangs" too!
    
    Werdann's playing like a man in a coma.  Didn't even have ANY
    wheaties, let alone something in them.
    
    Malik's right forearm collided with some BC player, knocking out
    2 teeth and Makil needed stitches to close the bite mark.  I hope
    the wound doesn't get infected (human saliva is one of the most 
    worst things).
    
    As messy as the game was, a win is a win is a win....
    
    Phil,  lasted night as I was watching the game I began to 
    feel what you had said sometime ago - depressing.....
    Is the February-fold happening?  The boys were playing like
    they had just met each other.
    
    ;^(
    
    But, I'm loyal to the better end!!!!!!!
    
    
    GO LOUIEEEEEE!
    
    Kev
    

As one of the few thousand privileged to go to that game last night, the first
half was very exciting.  The second half blew, as the refs took over and called
everything (one of the refs looked like Nick Crowley (?) who used to do all the
Big Five games - anyone know for sure).  The game got downright boring in a
hurry.  I was amazed that BC was able to stay in the game as long as they did. 
St. Johns has looked awful the last few games.

j.

    Joe,
    no arguement here, see previous commentary.
    
    Jeff,
    	Especially at the opening tap, I kept looking at the 1/2 filled
    seats and thought " If I had only tried to get to BC, I bet I could
    have gotten a ticket..."
    
    	Was attendence really that poor? ("..few thousand priviledged..")
    
    ESPN had their obligatory celeb shot of "St. Doug" but they didn't
    show Mrs. F. in case you didn't see him in the stands. ;^)
    
    I think BC may do something nexted(tm) year & it'll be more than this
    year.
    
    Kev
    

 Joe got a weekend schedule of games for us? Did ya catch Baywhine on
 ESPN? Says he's not worried about his job after all Noem Steward still
 got his Missouri. Also stated they ain't giving up on this season. Maybe
 he made a deal with the devil to go farther than usual.

 mike 

>>    	Was attendence really that poor? ("..few thousand priviledged..")

5800, I think.  And the place holds something like 8200.  I'm surprised at the
consistently low turnout for these great teams, bar Georgetown and Syracuse,
who always sell out (anyone got 2 extra tickets for the Syracuse game this
weekend :-0)?

j.

    I moved from Boston to California this past summer but don't want to
    miss the mad house in NYC.  Anybody got any thoughts on getting a pair
    of tickets for the Big East Tournament??  
    
    Thanks
    
    Tim

    Go down to NYC and bring lots of money.
    
    Generally, there are few if any tickets available to the general
    public.  Most tickets are sold through the schools.  If you're
    interested, the easiest game to go to is the "Toilet Bowl" between BC
    and the 8th place school on Thursday.
    
    If you can't get in on Friday, hang around outside as the games end. 
    Buy tickets from fans of the schools that have been eliminated.  You
    can probably get them at a fairly cheap price.  Try the same approach
    on Saturday.
    
    Good luck,
    
    John

(including games completed thru 2/18):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	9-3		V,Pitt,PC		@SJ,Pitt,@V,G
Georgetown	7-5		PC,V,SU,UC,SH		Pitt,UC,@SJ,@SU
Pitt		7-5		UC,SJ,V,G,SH		@G,@SU,@BC,UC
St. John's	8-6		SU,SH,G,V,PC		SU,G
Seton Hall	7-6		G,SU(2),PC,SJ,Pitt	V,@UC,BC
UConn		6-6		SJ(2),SU(2),PC,SH	@PC,@G,SH,@Pitt
Villanova	6-6		SH,Pitt,UC(2),SJ	BC,@SH,SU,@PC
Providence	5-8		BC,SH,Pitt(2),SJ,G,SU,V	UC,BC,V
BC		1-12		UC(2),SJ(2),G(2),	PC,@Pitt,SH
				SH,V(2),SU(2)

Seton Hall looks like a strong candidate for the NCAA tourney.  UConn and
Villanova each need 2 of their remaining 4 (most likely).  Providence has
had some big wins, but they appear to need 2-of-3, maybe all 3, to get in.

My guess is that the conference will NOT get 8 teams in the tourney, but
has a good shot at getting 7 in (although UConn is dangerously close to
not making it, especially considering their loss to NC State, and all
those home losses).


Joe

> Did ya catch Baywhine on
> ESPN? Says he's not worried about his job after all Noem Steward still
> got his Missouri.

I don't think I believe him.  A friend of mine in Syracuse knows that
Boehiem has been talking to a former NCAA committee person who has
recommended that Jimbo get his OWN lawyer...ie: the University will
protect itself, ONLY !!!


>Also stated they ain't giving up on this season.

I DO believe this !  What a shame that this investigation is clouding
the most surprising and enjoyable season in years.  I've seen this team
all season, and they've steadily improved, and have 8 people contributing.
Everyone plays his role well, and no one is selfish, or tries to do what
he can't (shouldn't) do.  The way they are playing now, a Big East tourna-
ment title is very possible, and they could make it to the Final Four.

And if Billy stays for his senior year, they'll be even better next year !!


Joe

Anyone catch the UConn-Providence game.  I only heard some of the game
and missed the final 1 1/2 minutes with the score tied.  This was a big game
for both teams in terms of the NCAA tournament.  UConn has three tough
games remaining (actually, every game is tough) included two on the road
and needed this one.  Providence needed the game just as badly and
probaby more due to there 5-8 record going in.  Providence has two home
and one away with one of the home games being BC.


                                                        Alan

>                          -< UConn-Providence score? >-

UConn won in OT, 68-64.  They missed 3 attempts in the last 4 seconds
of regulation to win it.  Smith did most of the scoring in OT, with
all of UConn's 10 pts coming from the foul line.

This game should eliminate PC from the NCAAs.  5-9 puts them in a huge
hole.  Too bad.  A team that can boast of wins against SU, G'town,
St. John's and PC should get in.  But they've lost to BC, and have
been smoked in the return match-ups with both G'town and SU.


Joe

The Big East will lose the following seniors:

BC		Able, Beasley, Moran
UConn		DePriest, Gwynn, Williams
G'town		Mutombo
Pitt		Martin, Matthews, Porter, Shorter
PC		Murdock, Watts
SJ		Muto, Singleton
SH		Avent, Taylor
SU		Ellis
Vill		Masotti, Muller, Bekkedam (he's in the book, but is he
			really still on the roster ?)

I believe SU will also lose Owens.  I'm not so sure about Mourning at
G'town.  Despite the publicity, I don't think he's shown what people
think he has.  He may be wise to follow Coleman's lead and stay his
senior year and develop/showcase his complete game.

Looking at the above list, everyone except Villanova loses someone
that is currently contributing...some more than others.

BC has a lot of young talent that will get their chance next year,
as there are no significant juniors (or sophomores for that matter).

UConn's heart is Smith-Burrell-Sellers, and with the big freshman
recruits they should elevate their game.

There will be only one tower at G'town, and what a lonely tower he
will be...Alonzo and the midgets (and no recruits signed to-date).

Pitt is going to be crushed.  Even if their young players are good,
they'll all be young, and it appears they'll return to the days of
no bench.

Providence will really have to adjust to life without The Great "E".
Watts is a minor player.

St. John's will have to find a workhorse on the boards.  But everyone
else is back.

Seton Hall will find out just how good Luther Wright really is, as
Avent's departure creates a big hole down low, where they don't have
anything else.  Taylor is another role player.

If Owens stays, Syracuse should be the best team in the Big East,
as Conrad McRae is Ellis' equal now (IMO).  McRae will have to keep
the fouls down, as we don't want to see too much of Dave Siock.
If Owens leaves, they better get one of the 2 forwards they're
hoping to sign this Spring...even that would leave them with a
new center and a frosh in Billy's spot.

Villanova returns ALL of their significant players.  So in experience,
they'll be at the top of the Big East, but they're still minus a big
man.

Did anybody catch the Villa Nuevo (tm) game Mon against (BC?)

I was at a Sports Bar... and the sound wasn't on.

about 8 minutes into the game, and the score was still 5-4!

I was cracking up! pretty soon other people started paying attention.
The whole bar was rolling! Every time up and down the floor there'd be
half a dozen offensive rebounds.... CLANK... CLUNK... THUD... BONK..
Then they'd race down to the other end... CLANK... CLUNK... THUD...
BONK..

The only time anyone would score was from the free throw line! And they
were tripping over each other, falling out of bounds.... They finally
managed to get it together and play some hoops, but for a good part of
the first half, it was strictly Keystone Kops time!

Mike JN

    
    Hey, PC can still win the Tournament!!  :^)
    
    As soon as Murdock fouled out in OT, the game was over.  Sadler is
    really frustrating.  Mental errors.  Gak.
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

 Beat me too it Shawn. They're capable. 

 Mourning has no choice but to comeback Joe and reestablish himself. Tough
 to believe that a guy who may have been the #1 choice in the nation had he
 come out his freshman year would have a tough time cracking the top 10 picks
 now. I'm sure he'd go in the top 10 but the lottery I'm not so sure about 
 especially if some of the other top notch underclassmen declare...

 With the investigation and the recent suspension I'd say it's like 98/02
 that Owens returns. Face it Joe he's gone and so is SU... ;^)

 If Obrien last this year next year will be it. If BC goes the way of say
 Pitt this year he's gone! Hopefully Evans is gone too. I can stand watching
 him stalk the sidelines and wasting all that talent.

 Luther's big enough to fill Avent's shoes. Walker should only get better
 as will Dehere who should have a better shot selection by then and Caver
 should easily make people forget about Taylor.

 As for Georgetown they weren't suppose to have any recruits this year Joe
 but Churchwell, Brown and Harrison look fine to me. JT always finds somebody.

 I think the Hall will be the favorites next year...

 mike

    A huge win for the REDMEN last night vs. SU at the Garden.  
    
    I was jumping out of my seat when we started off 15-0, but I told my
    wife that it wouldn't be long before SU got back in the game.
    
    Sealy (23 pts/16 rebs), Werdann (13 rebs), Singleton, Buchanan and 
    Sproling all scored in double figures for the Redmen, and Scott off 
    the bench contributed also.
    
    The Redmen are now 9-6 in the BE, and should be assured at least a middle
    of the pack finish with only Gtown at home remaining.
    
    Redmen Phil
                                                       

>    I was jumping out of my seat when we started off 15-0,

SU impressed me with their 20-2 run in the middle of the 1st 1/2.
I was shocked that they got back into it that quickly.  But their
turnover, and Sealy's 3 pointer to end the 1/2 killed their momentum,
and set the stage for the 2nd 1/2.

They were horrible in the 2nd 1/2...hell, most of the game was...every
time they'd get something going they'd throw the ball away (the turnovers
seemed endless), or commit a brainless foul.

Ellis and Autry were both horrible.  We've come to expect Ellis' stupid
mistakes, but Autry never got it together...most of the time trying to
do too much.  And while Owens ended it with 28, he started off 0-8 or 0-9.

Did St. John's really get 45-or-more foul shots ?...to SU's 20-something ?

St. John's earned this one.  They played well, as I expected them to.
This game was huge for them:  they needed to stop their recent slide;
needed a big home win over a ranked opponent; needed to keep from
falling out of the top 4 in the Big East.

They may meet again if they stay in their current #1-#4 positions.


re: SU being done if Owens leaves

Hey Mike, SU wasn't supposed to have anything this year either. :^)


Joe

(including games completed thru 2/20):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	9-4		V,Pitt,PC,SJ		Pitt,@V,G
Pitt		8-5		UC,SJ,V,G,SH		@SU,@BC,UC
St. John's	9-6		SU,SH,G,V,PC		G
Seton Hall	7-6		G,SU(2),PC,SJ,Pitt	V,@UC,BC
UConn		7-6		SJ(2),SU(2),PC,SH	@G,SH,@Pitt
Villanova	7-6		SH,Pitt,UC(2),SJ	@SH,SU,@PC
Georgetown	7-6		PC,V,SU,UC,SH,Pitt	UC,@SJ,@SU
Providence	5-9		BC,SH,Pitt(2),SJ,G,SU,	BC,V
				V,UC
BC		1-13		UC(2),SJ(2),G(2),	PC,@Pitt,SH
				SH,V(2),SU(2)

    Is it a safe bet to assume Georgetown won't be in the NCAA Tournament
    this year?  My paper reports they have an 11-9 record against NCAA
    Division 1 teams.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Is it a safe bet to assume Georgetown won't be in the NCAA Tournament
>    this year?

Boy, that's a tough call Chris.  Georgetown NOT in the NCAAs ????  I heard
someone on one of the networks asking the same question.  It just doesn't
sound right.  But with UConn, @SJ and @SU still facing them, they could
end up 8-8 in the conference, and that Div.1 record you posted would be
12-11.

Nah, I think they're in.


Joe

Saw most of the St. Johns - Syracuse game. Was switching back and forth
between that and the Cheerleader Cheeroffs. Awesome talent. (the
gymnastics weren't bad, either). They ought to make it an Olympic event.
Beats the hell out of synchronized swimming... or some of the dork floor
exercises I've seen...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Joe had it right re: the fouls. I'm not partial to either team, but I
thought the Refs took Syracuse out of their game. 

I've never seen so many incidentl contact fouls called!

Afterwards I switched over to the Duke game, and it was like going from
chess to hockey. LOTS of contact... few whistles.

Mike JN

>I've never seen so many incidentl contact fouls called!

Glad someone else noticed.  All you need to know is that 3 Syracuse
players fouled out !...and that includes the starting AND backup
center !  Couple this with the fact that Werdann had his best game
ever against SU, and you get the picture.

I'd welcome a rematch.


Joe

 Aw Cmon now Joe, it's not like you to look at the refs for blame. Besides
 the fact that every ball that went out of bounds was automatically SU's
 ball and Owens can push and shove on any offensive move he makes tends
 to balance out the calls I'd say. Plus during the run SJU got called for
 a few travels which were questionable.

 Chris if Duke can still be ranked 7th with those 5 excellent losses then
 Georgetown need not worry. Georgetown has beaten Duke, Seton Hall, SJU,
 Houston and another team that will be invited so one more win should be
 a lock for them. If they loose all 4 then it will depend upon what the 
 independents do during the last week. They could also win the automatic
 berth if they win the BET. Also to consider is the fact that Georgetown
 love or hate em is a HUGE draw no matter where they play. They suck
 offensively but still have got to be one of the best defensive teams in
 the country so that should get them a few votes. One thing for sure they
 will certainly draw their lowest ranking in ages going into the tournment.

 I'd love to see them shipped out West to take on UNLV. Atleast the necessary
 height to maybe slow the Rebs down...

 mike

(including games completed thru 2/24):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	10-4		V,Pitt,PC,SJ		@V,G
St. John's	9-6		SU,SH,G,V,PC		G
Pitt		8-6		UC,SJ,V,G,SH,SU		@BC,UC
Seton Hall	8-6		G,SU(2),PC,SJ,Pitt	@UC,BC
Georgetown	8-6		PC,V,SU,UC,SH,Pitt	@SJ,@SU
UConn		7-7		SJ(2),SU(2),PC,SH,G	SH,@Pitt
Villanova	7-7		SH(2),Pitt,UC(2),SJ	SU,@PC
Providence	6-9		BC,SH,Pitt(2),SJ,G,SU,	V
				V,UC
BC		1-14		UC(2),SJ(2),G(2),	@Pitt,SH
				SH,V(2),SU(2),PC

    We'll be rocking tonight, as the SJU Redmen take on Georgetown downstairs 
    at Madison Square Garden at 7:30 PM (ESPN).  I have a good feeling about
    this one.  I think the Redmen can pull out a 65-60 victory and solidify 
    their hopes of finishing #2 in the BE this year.
    
    Any other thoughts out there?
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    BTW, the rumor mill at the Garden Saturday evening (an SJU win over a
    game Notre Dame team) had the Redmen signing 2G Steve Frazier, a hot-
    shooting, long range bomber from NYC, during the spring signing period.  
    Frazier has not gotten the typical HS phenom publicity in NYC, partly 
    because he transferred at the beginnning of the school year from 
    Archbishop Molloy HS (remember Kenny Anderson and Rob Werdann) to another 
    fairly high profile (in terms of NYC HS hoops) HS (whose name escapes me).
    Anyone who has seen the Redmen knows this is a critical need for them
    for next year and in the future.
    
    On another front, the word is that Anthony Cade, 6'9" F out of NYC,
    who signed with Louisville over SJU last year (and then had to sit out
    for Prop 48 (he's at a JC now), will not return to Louisville next
    year, but will remain in JC and then transfer to SJU as a Jr., the
    following year.  This would be great, as it would provide an able
    replacement for Malik Sealy.
    
               
    

 My feeling is that SJU is going down right Kev? :^) Actually it's anybody's
 ballgame tonight. SJU's guards have the advantage and Malik of course but
 Singleton and Werdamn got there hands full. It will be interesting to see
 how Werdamn plays. He's never had a good one against the Hoyas but looked
 downright nasty against SU last week.

 As for saturday the M&M boys finally got their act together too bad it was
 only UConn they were playing against. Good thing Cyrulik tried to pull that
 crap with Mutumbo cause if he have tried the same crap with Mourning, Alonzo
 would have deposited him the cheap seats. Another amazing play was they 
 actually set a screen to free Churchwell for a baseline jumper that he
 canned will wonders never sease?

 Any chance the Navy can recall Evans to active duty? What a disgrace. SU
 ain't that good. I think Baywhine struck a deal with the devil... ;^)

 mike

> Any chance the Navy can recall Evans to active duty? What a disgrace. SU
> ain't that good. I think Baywhine struck a deal with the devil... ;^)

You had to know I wasn't going to let you get away with this comment Mike...
Syracuse could win the regular season and Big East Tournament titles and
you still wouldn't give them the credit they deserve.  They ARE among
the 4-6 BEST teams in the country.  I believe this, without a doubt.

They've had a high rating in the past, but never has the team had
the rating, and the good balance and "intangibles" that this team has.
As Packer said Sunday, they're big, fast, aggressive, and versatile.

Everyone has a role, and he plays it well.  There are no show-boats,
or selfish, moody, pouters on this team.  This team actually has a
bench that contributes.  Before this year, when was the last time
you saw the bench cheering the guys on the floor ???

And they're 7-0 in games decided by 3 points or less, or in OT.

They are as good as they're playing right now.  Sure, they may have
nights like last Wed at MSG, and they are NOT a real good outside
shooting team, but they play aggressive defense, share the ball on
offense, and work hard for 40 minutes.  You don't see the dead spots
during games that we've seen in previous seasons.

Without another dominant Big East team, this Syracuse team (more than
any previous one) is legitimately the favorite to win the BE regular
season and tournament titles.  And I think they should be the #1
seed in the East.  What do you think ACC Chris ?

Maybe this will be the year Boehiem shakes the "can't win the big one"
image.  Ironically, it may be his last year at the Carrier Dome.


Joe

    > And I think they should be the #1 seed in the East.  What do you think 
    > ACC Chris ?

    Ah, consulting with the expert Joe - good work!  But you may not like
    what you hear.  
    
    *If* the selections were done today I would think Carolina would get 
    the #1 East seed.  This is based on their higher ranking in the polls
    and their higher Power Rating.  (USA Today has UNC #2 in the USA.)
    
    HOWEVER, ... there's alot of season left.  Carolina has a murderous
    final 2 games (@Tech,Duke) and I would be extremely surprised if we
    came through unscathed.  I note that SU is @Villanova tonight though,
    and that'll be no picnic.
    
    Here's my ACC perspective on Duke or UNC getting the #1 seed:
    
    o Carolina if they win the ACC regular season outright and at least
      make it to the finals of the ACC Tournament.
    
    o Same formula for Duke
    
    o If Carolina and Duke tie for the regular season Title then I'd say
      one of 'em will have to win the tourney to get the #1 seed.
    
    Of course, the #1 seed is overrated.  The real key is to avoid the
    West.  Getting the #1 seed just makes certain that happens ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    What I don't like are the people writing Pitt off.  For instance,
    Packer and the other announcer (was it Nance?) called Pitt the
    underachievers of the season.  
    
    Sorry, you can call them that if they finish lower than third in the
    Big East Tourny and get knocked out of the NCAAs in the first two
    rounds.  Until then, they've played as well and as poorly as the other
    top seven Big East teams.  
    
    If there is a problem with this team, it is Paul Evans.  I wish they
    would have commented on that bit of underachieving than the group of
    seniors he can't pull together at times.  That's the reality.
    
    	--dan'l

    The Redmen outlasted Georgetown last night at the Garden, 68-58.  SJU
    is now finished at 10-6 in the BE; this may assure them the #2 seed in
    the BE tourney next weekend.  
    
    Last night, Malik Sealy had his usual fine game, and Billy Singleton
    did a job helping out on the two big men.  Mourning was in foul trouble
    the last 14 minutes of the first half, and Rob Werdann was in foul
    trouble for 10-12 minutes in the second half.  But Werdann made the
    most of his time with another solid contribution.  On the other hand,
    Mourning was out of it.  I'm amazed how he's fallen (yeah, I've heard
    the stories about his injuries and confusion over playing with Matumbo)
    this year.  Where he could have been a lottery pick, he best stay in 
    school (it hurts to say that, because I had been hoping that both he 
    and Owens would leave after this year) and work on his game and lottery 
    chances next year.
               
    The BE tourney should be a whale of a time.  Here's hoping the Redmen
    don't do their usual bomb out.
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    

 Phil, you didn't miss the score by much either. Good game by SJU. I really
 thought Mourning had turned the corner. Oh Well. Phil I think you'll get
 your wish though. Joe's right in his assesement of SU's players but that 
 doesn't mean I have to like it, but what it does mean that Owens can fill
 in enough of his goals that he can leave this year. Only reason I can see 
 him staying is if he wants to be one of three college players who gets
 two minutes a game in the olympics. I read Mourning's grades aren't cutting
 it so he may have no choice but to leave because he may face acedemic
 ineligibilty next year. Besides the way Stomper has wasted him he should go.
 Must be sicking to be a yo-yo.

 Only Stomper could substitute Kelley for Mourning on defense. The Kid led
 the nation two years ago in shot blocking. How short is his memory. Maybe
 though John will leave because of his health. Ershwich will take over and
 Alonzo will stay. 

 and just for you Kev, munch munch munch...

>    Packer and the other announcer (was it Nance?) called Pitt the
>    underachievers of the season.  

Nantz actually asked if this team was the biggest underachievers "of
all time".
    

>    If there is a problem with this team, it is Paul Evans.  I wish they
>    would have commented on that bit of underachieving than the group of
>    seniors he can't pull together at times.  That's the reality.

A good comment Dan.  I definitely see a link.  Although the school's
program wasn't doing too well under the guy before him either.



re:  UNC's power rating

Chris, I forgot that they use this thing.  I wonder how much "weight" it
carries.  I don't understand it.  All due respect, but I've seen both
teams and I don't see UNC as better than SU.



re:  SJU

Hey Phil, it's still too early to get a good read on this thing, but
SJU could be #2, and maybe they can be #4 or 5.  Going into last night's
game Raftery said that both St. John's and G'town could be the #2 or
the #7 seed.  It's wild.

St. John's is a strange team right now.  They definitely got it up
for SU and G'town on their home floor, but they were less than impressive
against Pitt, BC and ND.  Can they carry an emotional edge through
the BE tournament (being on the MSG floor) ?  It'll be tough, 'cause
seeing how they played in the other 3 games, I'm not convinced they
can do it for 3 straight nights...and in this tournament they could
be playing G'town in the 1st round, Pitt in the 2nd and SU in the
Final.  That's a tough road, and if they were to face SU or G'town,
they'd have to beat a team the same team twice in 2 weeks.

I give some credit to Robert Werdann.  As soon as I was saying that
he was soft, and not a factor against big boys, he comes up with
2 good games (SU, G'town).


Joe

> I read Mourning's grades aren't cutting
> it so he may have no choice but to leave because he may face acedemic
> ineligibilty next year.

Mike, rumors in NYC have Thompson as a candidate for the Knicks GM job.
I wonder if that will play a factor in Mourning's decision ?

I think he should stay.  I was listening to a WFAN interview with some
guy (I think he was a HS/College talent analyst, or something) and
he can't believe what's happened to Mourning.  He said that the kid
has gone from possibly a #1 pick in his freshman year to out of the
lottery this year.

Thompson definitely stifled this kid.  Maybe that's an edge for SU, as
everyone knows that "we let our kids play here at The Dome".


Speaking of recruiting, the latest Big East Briefs says that the SU
investigation is having an affect on the recruiting of prize forward
Donyell Marshall.  He is quoted as saying, "it kind of dampens it a
little bit because I don't want to go there if they're going on
probation."  He hasn't made his decision yet, and will be visiting
Syracuse (officially) this weekend, attending the Sunday G'town
game.  He said that no other school's are bad-mouthing Syracuse
in their recruiting of him (does anyone believe that ?), and that
Pitt and Villanova have gotten into the chase (UConn and Maryland
have made scholarship offers).

As for the other (Fall) signees, none have pulled out of SU (yet).
Anthony Harris says he could live thru a 1-yr probation, but if they
get hit with 2 yrs, he'd have to seriously consider his options.

Glenn Sekunda, Lazarus Sims, Lawrence Moten and Luke Jackson all say
that they are still planning to attend Syracuse.  Jackson was critical
of the Post Standard: "That's a school in Syracuse.  That's a paper
in Syracuse.  That's their community...Why would the Syracuse news-
paper want to dig down and see if they could bust their own school ?"

A question a lot of us are asking.


Joe

    The question about why an SU paper would want to trash the SU program
    is indeed a heckuva good question, 'specially when you consider the
    usual self-serving approach of the media.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

Congrats to SU who took the Big East regular season Champeenship lasted
night by spanking Villanova.....

(Mighty hard words to get out from a UCONN fan 8^))

'Saw

>    The question about why an SU paper would want to trash the SU program
>    is indeed a heckuva good question, 'specially when you consider the
>    usual self-serving approach of the media.  
    

 Didn't the Lexington (Whatever) get the Pulitzer for their expose on Kentucky?
 That certainly would explain why. It's too bad Kentucky's out I really like
 they're style.

 Joe, I agree Alonzo's pro career would be better served if he stayed another
 year but if he can't cut it with the books, he isn't going to be able to
 play next year anyways and improve his posistion. Bottom line is sure he drops
 and it'll cost a million or two early but he'll still go in the first half
 of the first round anyways. Smart agent signs a 1 or 2 year deal then he
 gets what he deserves. Also by coming out in the middle of the pack he stands
 a better chance of getting on a team that isn't years away from competing 
 for the championship, he isn't looked upon to be a savior so he has time to
 grow.
 
 mike

 Reality = SU 1-10 for regular season championships despite annually having
 the best talent in the league. It shouldn't be congrats Saw, it should be
 well It's about time....

 ;^)

 man the SU fans at the Tourney will really be unbearable this year...

 mike

    The newspaper did it because its job is not to support its home town
    institutions.  The newspaper's job is to be a profit making business.
    
    John

    Sorry for not getting in here sooner to offer high-fives and congrat's
    to Phil and share in the celebrations but was out of
    the office yesterday (went to Sun Expo to do some "espionage)....
    
    I'm suprised nobody mentioned Werdann's half-court, no time out,
    shot at the end of the game!  Who does he think he is anyway, McHale?
    Anyway, the shot was counted as the downward flight had begun when
    the buzzer went off.  Had he not made it, the winning margin would have 
    been only 7 points.
    
    Last two games Rob has had hi-octane Wheaties for breakfast.  When he
    comes to play (motivated), he's as effective as anyone in the League,
    if not the nation.  When he doesn't, Yecch!
    
    In the old ::LDUC, I posted a quote from a BBall magazine which
    (paraphrased) said something like " but in the end, SJU will have
    20 wins..."
    
    Guess what?  Saturday's game gave LOUIEEE!!! and the team the #20!
    Carnac....
    
    Mikey, payback's a b*tch!!!!!  [many ;^)]
    
    Interesting but (for many , worthless) fact regarding SJU this year.
     No Big East Team swept the Johnnies this year.
    
    I'm proud of them!
    
    WAY TO GO LOUIEEEEE!!!!!
    
    Kev
    
    ps - I loved the commentator's remarks about Malik's Fashion Designing
    major at SJU and how he might be designing LOUIEEE's sweaters in a few
    years!  ;*)
    
    

    Mikey,
    
    It takes a BIG MAN to saunter up to the cafe' without being
    prodded.
    
    Congrat's!!!
    
    Kev
    

    
    re. Syracuse Post Standard
    
    People can't understand why this paper would trash Syracuse.  Hmm,
    well, let's say "to sell papers" was right, like everybody said.
    
    Does it matter?
    
    One of the things I have an incredibly hard time with is the way
    the city of Syracuse has come down hard on the paper.  Ok, I get my info
    second hand, but The Syracuse New Times has done even more than their 
    usual bashing of the dailies, and they seem mimic the public consensus
    that it's all a big joke designed to sell papers.
    
    It's like, it doesn't matter if the accusations were true, it doesn't
    matter if maybe an investigation is warranted, it doesn't matter that
    even *maybe* some NCAA rules were broken.  The city doesn't want their
    school basketball team trashed.  It's their one joy, blah blah blah.  
    And the paper was wrong for bringing it up.  They would rather not know 
    about it than have it looked into.  Go Orangemen, rah rah.
    
    Really sad state of affairs when the success of a stupid basketball team 
    is more important then the integrity of a University.  Doesn't Syracuse 
    have enough of an image problem (city, not school)?
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

>    The newspaper's job is to be a profit making business.

John, I wonder if they're achieving that objective now that they
see 200 weekly subscriptions cancelled since the report came out,
and numerous businesses pulling advertising accounts out from
under them.  The Syracuse Herald American must be loving this !!!!


re:  Sean's comments

Sure, the school should be ashamed of allowing kids to stay rent
free at an alumnus' house during the summer, etc., etc.  But when
this report could damage a program that provides millions (did you
see the CBS report of the money that flows into Syracuse just from
the football and basketball programs?) of dollars to the community,
what social/moral purpose are they achieving ?  From everything
I've read, they had to dig deep to find the stuff they found.  They
didn't just find an envelope with some $ in it, and no player came
to them with a story.  No, this just doesn't make sense.


Joe

>    So "little" infractions are okay if they provide lots of money
>    for the school and community?

No, that trick won't work on me.  My point (very clearly stated, I
thought), is that there are no huge accusations being made here...
no recruit came forward with ugly stories about recruiting violations...
nothing came "spilling" out into the public's eye.  The paper, for
whatever reasons, went digging, launching it's own independent
investigation into the program, without any "apparent" reason
to do so.

My guess is that every major (top 100 ?) Div. 1 b-ball school has
committed a recruiting violation at some point in time, and you can
find it if you go looking for it.  But we don't have every newspaper
in the country investigating their local "pride and joy".



>    Yet, you think Beoheim could be done this year.  For such little things
>    that they had to dig deep for

Of course he "could" be done this year.  Jim Valvano was publicly crucified
and what was the final verdict from the NCAA ?  "NC State didn't support
it's athletes' academic studies..."  or something like that.

The Post Standard dug up enough to open the door of suspicion.  Already
the school has discovered something that they believed warranted suspending
7 players before a game and reporting it to the NCAA.  As I mentioned in
a previous note, the University will protect itself.  IMO, regardless of
the seriousness of the recruiting violations, they, COUPLED WITH Vitale's
reminders of the off-court problems of the past (Andre Hawkins' rape
investigation in Hartford, CT;  Derrick Coleman's fist-fights at campus
parties (ditto this year with Billy Owens);  the Kirkaldy rape accusation)
could force the school's hand to make a change.  So everything together
may cause the change.

Hell, hopefully they'll drag in his 2-6 record in BE tournament title
games...and those NCAA Round 2 embarrassments to Virginia Tech, Ohio State,
Navy and Rhode Island.  :^)



re: last night's game

What a shame that we aren't enjoying the SU BE regular season championship !
Doing it on Villanova's home floor to boot !

Some stats from last night's radio broadcast:

	-  SU has kept an opponent to under 50% from the field in
	   25 of 29 games (BTW, they're 25-4 in 29 games)

	-  they're 81-19 since BO (Billy Owens)

	-  yesterday was the 15th anniversary of the last game
	   in which Syracuse allowed 100 or more points (it was
	   in '76, vs. St. John's at Alumni Hall)...just for you
	   Kev and Phil

	-  Dave Johnson has scored in double-figures in every
	   game this season (this was in jeopardy as he had been
	   lifted with a few minutes to go - he didn't have a
	   good game - with only 9 pts, but Massimino's foul-
	   game forced Boehiem to put him back in for ball-handling
	   and foul shooting reasons)

	-  Billy Owens went into last night's game with an 11 pt
	   average against Villanova in his college career...he had
	   24 last night

	-  NO player has ever averaged 20+ pts/game since Boehiem has
	   been coach...both Owens and Johnson will this year

(including games completed thru 2/27):

				teams they lost to:	games remaining:
				------------------	---------------
Syracuse	11-4		V,Pitt,PC,SJ		G
St. John's	10-6		SU,SH,G,V,PC,Pitt
Pitt		9-6		UC,SJ,V,G,SH,SU		UC
Seton Hall	8-7		G,SU(2),PC,SJ,Pitt,UC	BC
Georgetown	8-7		PC,V,SU,UC,SH,Pitt,SJ	@SU
UConn		8-7		SJ(2),SU(2),PC,SH,G	@Pitt
Villanova	7-8		SH(2),Pitt,UC(2),SJ,
				G,SU			@PC
Providence	6-9		BC,SH,Pitt(2),SJ,G,SU,
				V,UC			V
BC		1-14		UC(2),SJ(2),G(2),	@SH
				SH,V(2),SU(2),PC,Pitt(2)


Big win for UConn last night.  ESPN reported that no Big East team
with 8 wins has ever been denied a trip to the NCAA tournament.

USA Today reported yesterday that in a mtg between CBS and NCAA
officials on Tuesday, there is serious concern that Georgetown
will not make the tournament.  They say the 4 wins vs. non-Div 1
schools hurts them.  One person said that he believed G'town
will have to make it to the semis of the BET to get in.  I think
that if they beat Syracuse on the road this Sunday (a real possibility
considering their life is on the line, and Syracuse has already
clinched the BE title) they'll be in.  But if they lose Sunday
and go out in the 1st round of the BET, maybe they won't make it.

U Conn pulled out a pretty good victory over Seton Hall lasted night.
They can chalk the win up to their `D'
Talk about a swarming Defense!  They stayed all over SH like white on
rice.

Mike JN

If G'town beats SU, Pitt beats UConn, Seton Hall beats BC
and Providence beats Villanova, I believe the seeding for
the BET will go like this:

	#1	Syracuse
	#2	St. John's
	#3	Pitt
	#4	Georgetown
	#5	Seton Hall
	#6	UConn
	#7	Villanova
	#8	Providence
	#9	BC

If SU beats G'town, make SH #4 and G'town #5, which changes
nothing in terms of matchups.


Syracuse's motivation Sunday is that #1, it's Georgetown, and
#2 it could get them a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

    IF Syracuse beats Georgetown on Sunday ....
    
    And IF Seton hall beats Georgetown in the first round of the
    Big East Tournament ...
    
    Then Georgetown is left as the 6th best team in the Big East,
    and has a 12-12 record against Division 1 opponents.
    
    The question is .... would they get an NCAA bid?
    
    The second question is .... would they deserve it?
    
    NAZZ

    Congratulations to SU for winning the BE regular season !!
    
    re: SJU/Pitt tie at 10-6 for second (if Pitt beats UConn): Does anyone
    know who would get the #2 spot and why?
    
    re: SJU chances in the BE Tourney: I agree Joe; I too find it hard to
    believe that the Redmen can put together three straight solid nights of 
    hoops (especially Billy Singleton and his gimpy knee). 
    
    But, you never know.....
    
    In any event, you can be sure I'll be there rooting them on.
    
    Redmen Phil 
                  

    No way does GT deserve an NCAA bid this year.  If they lose this
    weekend then I hope there will be no doubt of that.  I'm a GT fan and 
    wish 'em the best, but I don't think beating SU (who may let down a
    little for this one) is enough justification to get a tournament bid.
    If they get in, it will be "just 'cause it's Georgetown," not because
    of having a great team.
    
    Dave W.

>    re: SJU/Pitt tie at 10-6 for second (if Pitt beats UConn): Does anyone
>    know who would get the #2 spot and why?

Phil,  the possible seedings I gave in .259 are *actual*, at least as
far as I understand the tie-breaking system.  St. John's would get
the #2 because they swept UConn, and Pitt would split with UConn
(yes, they'd have to go that far down in the standings to break
the tie).


Hey SU fans, USA Today says that people in the TV business are
anxiously watching the NCAA's investigation of Syracuse, because
the 3 highest rated college hoops games last year ('89-90) ALL
involved Syracuse.

    Last night during the IU @ MSU game Dickie V mentioned his short list
    for the #1 seed in the East.  He had SU first, stating that if they run
    out their games they should get the #1 seed.  Other schools on the list
    were Carolina, IU, Duke, and Arizona.
    
    I'm surprised by this.  Carolina is ranked higher in the polls; has a
    better power rating; and has an equal number of losses as Syracuse with
    a more difficult schedule.
    
    Of course the ideal situation for UNC would be, as BobHunt mentioned,
    to get the #2 slot in the Southeast, but the overriding concern for
    every Top 10 team right now has got to be to avoid the West.  *IF*
    Carolina beats Duke Sunday I think they'll do no worse than #2 in the
    Southeast, even if they were to lose in the 2nd round of the ACC
    Tourney.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

>    Last night during the IU @ MSU game Dickie V mentioned his short list
>    for the #1 seed in the East.  He had SU first, stating that if they run
>    out their games they should get the #1 seed.  Other schools on the list
>    were Carolina, IU, Duke, and Arizona.

As a long-time Syracuse fan, the phrase "if they run out their games"
has a lot of hope in it, but hardly ever becomes reality.

I can't see Arizona or Indiana getting a #1 in the East over Eastern
schools Syracuse, Duke and North Carolina.


>    I'm surprised by this.  Carolina is ranked higher in the polls; has a
>    better power rating; and has an equal number of losses as Syracuse with
>    a more difficult schedule.

Chris, how do you figure they've had a more difficult schedule ?  I'm sure
this is reflected in the Power Rating, but I personally don't see the ACC
as being as strong as the Big East (remember, Georgetown smoked Duke), so
that would mean UNC's "more difficult" schedule would have to come from
their non-conference games.  Who did they play ?

FWIW, if both UNC and SU run their respective tables, it's going to be a
very difficult decision for the selection committee.  My guess (being the
battered SU fan) is that they'll go with the more-established ACC rep.


>    Of course the ideal situation for UNC would be, as BobHunt mentioned,
>    to get the #2 slot in the Southeast, but the overriding concern for
>    every Top 10 team right now has got to be to avoid the West.

Why is #2 in the Southeast the best ?  Is Arkansas over-rated ?

At first glance I can see the logic about avoiding UNLV, but if you
think harder, if you're going to get 'em, you may get them before
the Final Four.  I know they'll be in the West (ie: @home), but
once they get to the Final Four, they'll be on another level both
on the floor, and in their heads!  It's not likely that Syracuse
or UNC will sneak up on them (being the #2 seed, and playing them
in the Regional Final), but maybe you could catch them looking a
little past you.

    I'd love for the star hells to make the West Regional - since I'd be
    there, I'd love to see Dean-o take the gaspipe again.  One rumour
    flying around is that the NCAA will *LOAD* the West, in the hopes of
    knocking Tark and the boys out early.  THe NCAA is a vindictive bunch,
    so that won't surprise me.  
    
    JD

While Georgetown's early schedule was a cupcake the fact that they didn't
loose any of them should neither enhance or distract from them. The toughest
loss I see out there is Texas El-Paso. Depaul has been smoking the end of
the year winning 10 of their last 11 including SJU yesterday. THe Big East's
balance this year should help them. A win over SU today should be a lock no
matter what happens in the tournament. In fact it would probably take  blow\
today and in the tourney to take away their dance card. The fact that they are
a marquee name with marquee players will help.

SU I believe would get the number 1 seed because the first and second rounds
are being played I believe in New York this year instead of Providence or
Hartford so unless the rounds are at the Carrier dome SU can play there and
offer the NCAA's immediate sell out. 

oh well let's start this one and see where we go...

Big East all teams

First		Second		third		Rookie
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Mutumbo		Avent		Werdann		Curley
Owens		Johnson		Karnishovas	Scott
Sealy		Shorter		Burell		Walker
Murdock		Dehere		Brown		Brown
Smith		L.Miller	S.Miller	Avent

Player of the Year: Murdock
Most improved: Davey Johnson
Coach of the Year: Louie..................

the please retire award goes to both Evans and Thompson
 

mike

    
    
    	GO LOUIEEE!!!!!!!
    

    Carolina's loss makes the #1 East seed a moot point.  I'd say SU has
    all but locked up the top spot at this point, regardless of what they
    do in the BE Tourney.
    
    What they do with Duke/UNC will be *VERY*, *VERY* interesting.  Here's
    an optimistic guess though:
    
    o If Duke or UNC win the ACC Tourney they'll get the #2 slot in the
      Southeast
    
    o If Duke or UNC make it to the finals and lose they'll get the #2
      slot in the East
    
    o If Duke or UNC lose *prior* to the finals, they'll be vulnerable
      to the dreaded WEST, although Jim Nance reported that Arizona seems
      to have a lock on that unlucky position ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris
    
    

What's a matter SU fans can't handle somebody bumpping poor little BILLY
OWENS who can shove and jam with the best of them? Unmercifuly riding Brian
Kelley yesterday again showed their utter lack of class that SU fans have
for the game. All that matters is their precious little players. A tough game
to take as the Hoyas had em and let it slip away. My kingdom for a consistent
outside jump shooter....

 oh well on to the tournament and hopefully the 16th seed out west....

 as for the BET... ANYBODY BUT SU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 from memory   BC vs Nova  thursday

  Pitt vs Hall  12:00 friday
  SU vs 8,9 winer 2:30 friday
  SJU vs. Providence 7:00 friday
  UConn vs. GT        9:30


  friday afternoon winners play one another saturday and friday nite winners
  play one another.....

 predictions


	Nova wins,  Hall wins, Nova wins, Prov wins, Georgetown wins, Hall
        wins again and Prov wins again and the Hall beats Prov in the finals...

    RE: .269
    
    Chris, The Razorpigs lost to Texas yesterday.  That might cost them
    their lock on the Southeast top spot.
    
    	--dan'l

    re: .-1
    
    One can only hope!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 three losses of which 2 are to top 10 teams ( I have my doubts about the Cats)
 and the other to a bitter rival who's atleast within shouting distance of the
 top 25 I doubt it will cost them. If they go and blow the SWC tournament then
 maybe they'll loose their #1 seed but otherwise you're welcome to dream Chris...


 mike

    The BE Tourney seeds go something like this:
    
    #8 Vill  vs.  #9 BC     Thursday 8   pm
    
    #5 Pitt  vs.  #4 SHU    Fri.   12    noon
    #1 SU    vs.  Th winner Fri.    2:30 pm
    #2 SJU   vs.  #7 Prov   Fri.    7    pm
    #3 UConn vs.  #6 Gtown  Fri.    9:30 pm
    
    The Friday afternoon winners play the early game Saturday afternoon, 
    and the Friday evening winners play the late game Saturday afternoon.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Anyone have a description of the UConn victory over Pitt (@Pitt).  I didn't
know anything about the game but since UConn is seeded 3rd, they must have won.
I also noticed that Providence must have beaten Vill in order to take the 7th
seed.  Is Providence again a possibility for the NCAA's.  This year has
been very exciting with so many even teams.  Pitt @ SHU and UCONN @ Gtown
are two very good first round matchups.  I have to go with SHU and Gtown
although my heart is always with UConn.  Syracuse has to be the favorite
as they are clearly the best in the BIG EAST.

    Anbody in here NOT think the Big East teams will suffer in the NCAAs
    once they can only play with five fouls?
    
    This conference could set a record for placing the most teams in the
    tournament this year.  It could also set a record for most early exits
    by a conference.  
    
    	--dan'l

> Anyone have a description of the UConn victory over Pitt (@Pitt).

I don't have any specifics, but they won by 10, and were in control
most of the game (w/ leads in the double figures).


>Syracuse has to be the favorite
>as they are clearly the best in the BIG EAST.

I believe (w/out a doubt) that Syracuse IS the best team in the Big
East.  They could play the regular season over again and Syracuse
would end up at the top.  They have the most balance, good role
players, good defense, and 2 streaky, explosive scorers in Owens
and Johnson.

But, I do NOT believe that they are a lock to win the BET.  They
have a very tough 1st game against Villanova (assuming they beat
BC), the only team to beat them at The Carrier Dome this year.
And this is their reward for getting the top seed ?  They struggled
last year to win the 1-8 game vs. Pitt, and I see the same thing
this year.

And if they get by Villanova they'll play either Pitt (who beat
them once) or Seton Hall, who's due to beat them, since they've
never beaten them in Big East play.

Hell, a Final against St. John's or UConn could be the easiest
game of the three.  :^)


Hey Mike, G'town should have won that one.  But they had last year's
game too, until someone fouled Billy at 1/2-court with 1 second left.
This time is was Syracuse's defense that won the game, and Georgetown's
loss of control.  Kelly should be running laps all day for taking that
one to the hole and charging.  He should have pulled it out and used
the clock.  Maybe those fans got to him.  I don't like the way he
plays.  He's got little offensive talent.  He's a hustler, and that's
it.  I'm surprised he gets the playing time that Thompson gives him,
but of course, that's Thompson.



re: Mike's All-Big East team

Mike, try to objective, just once !!!  Billy Owens has out-played
Eric Murdock, plain and simple.  He's going to win the Big East
Player of the Year.  By some reports, he's a favorite to win the
NCAA PotY.  Eric Murdock is a nice player, but a Billy Owens comes
around once a decade.

	PotY		Billy Owens

	1st Team	Murdock
			Smith
			Owens
			Sealy
			Avent

	2nd Team	Buchanan (SJ)
			Dehere (SH)
			Woodard (Vill)
			Mutombo (G'town)
			Johnson (SU)

	3rd Team	Shorter (Pitt)
			Mourning (G'town)
			Burrell (UC)
			Lance Miller (Vill)
			Werdann (SJ)	

	Freshman of the Year	Bill Curley (BC)

	Freshmen Team	Autry (SU)
			Curley (BC)
			Brown (G'town)
			Scott (SJ)
			Harrison (G'town)


	Coach of the Year	Jim Boehiem  (like him or not, and I don't,
					you have to give him credit...he was
					pre-season #4 in the BE and they had
					a great year, from knocking off Ind
					in the Maui Classic, to winning the
					BE season title, to being the 1st to
					beat G'town 4 straight times)


Joe

>    Anbody in here NOT think the Big East teams will suffer in the NCAAs
>    once they can only play with five fouls?

It didn't seem to present a problem for them last year.  All of them
have played at least 12 non-conference games during the season (with
only 5 fouls), so I don't think it's a big deal.  The coaches have to
work harder at monitoring the situation, and using subs to avoid
tiring players from getting hit with the cheapies (ie: reaching, not
getting their feet planted, etc.).

LeRon Ellis is sure to have trouble, but SU has McRae behind him.

BC coach Jim O'Brien lost his wife last night.  The cause of death
was heart failure.  She had had heart problems last year.

re: the five fouls.

The Big East Refs seem to call the game much more closely, but they seem
to be relatively consistent. Most of the other conferences seem to call
a looser game, so I don't expect Big East teams to suffer.

ie. yesterday's Nebraska - Kansas game
	Several times I thought to myself that if this game were being
played in the Big East... there wouldn't be anybody left to play... they
would have ALL fouled out.

	That Nebraska kid - Miller - carries a load, doesn't he? Looked
pretty good.

	Kansas was horrible from the line in the second half. Overall
they shot about 50+% from the foul line, but for the second half, I
would have to guess them at about 25%. I think it cost them the game.

UNC and Duke.... The Clemson refs were definitely on UNC's side... I
couldn't believe it. For the second half, near the end of the game UNC
was ? for 15 and Duke was 1 for 1 from the line. What was funny, the one
foul they finally called on UNC wasn't even a foul. The replay showed
the guy hadn't touched him.

Something I hadn't really considered before, but come tournament time,
the refs can really make or break a team. I think it especially will
impact the more physical teams. They get used to a certain style of
play, then run into a ref that calls a foul if someone's even in the
vicinity, and that team is going down.

Mike JN

    re:  .270
    
    Brian Kelley deserved everything he got up at the dome, it's all part
    of the game, and if it happened at G-Town the same thing would have
    happened to SU.  It was indeed an intentional foul, and it should have been
    called!  The game was an Awesome game making SU's win streak over
    G-Town up to 4 in a row.  
    
    New Attendance record:     33,048  (beating last year's record by 36)
    
    
    

 Dan-l ditto what Joe and Mike JN said especially JN....

 Joe, why don't you try and be objective once in a while yourself. Billy
 Owens type ballplayers are indeed a rarity but Owens didn't do anymore
 than was expected of him or lift his team to greater heights yet. He may
 if he can lead them to the promised land. He is without a doubt the most
 talent ballplayer in the BE, but I base my POY on most valuable. Without
 Murdock, PC is below BC and in the consilation game. SU without Owens is
 in the middle of the pack. Heck I'd vote Sealy ahead of Owens for what he
 meant to his team. Also to consider the coaches rarely give this award to
 a junior so I look for Murdock or Mutumbo or Avent to get it. Of course I
 could be wrong....

 You SU fans are too much all that matters is SU....

 mike

>Also to consider the coaches rarely give this award to
> a junior so I look for Murdock or Mutumbo or Avent to get it.

Mutombo and Avent ????  If either of these guys gets PotY the
process should be considered a farce.

Everyone's infatuated with the big guys Mike, and that's in
Owens favor.  Also, it's "what have you done lately?", and
since Murdock's streak of 30-pt games, he's been consistently
in the 20's, while Owens has been living in the 30's.  The
man also blocks shots, rebounds, assists, steals and shoots
inside and out.  And don't forget that he brings the ball up
against the press and has the ball in delay game situations
(being the go-to guy).


> You SU fans are too much all that matters is SU....

Not so Mike.  I didn't have Autry winning the Freshman of the Year
award, and every Big East analyst I've listened to thinks he will.
I don't think he's played consistently well enough to win it.  I
think Curley has had a bigger impact, game-in-and-game-out.

I also didn't even consider Edwards or Ellis for 3rd Team Big East.

I'm just seeing things as they are.  This is the best season (to-date)
since Syracuse has been in the Big East.  They've had more talented
teams that have posted much more impressive wins, but never have they
had talent and desire, like this team has.  And they have an unstoppable
force in nearly every phase of the game!

 Murdock had 30 the other night against Nova. He still the all time NCAA
 leader in steals. Charles Smith won it two year ago so I don't think the
 infactuation with big men holds here. I agree that neither Mutumbo or
 Avent are as deserving as Billy or Sealy for that matter but I still say
 the team that would hurt the most by loosing their star player would be PC.

 The crack about SU fans refered more to Mr./Mrs. Cave who thought Kelley
 got exactly what he deserve and to the time we talked about the upcoming
 year over at Carmella Farley. I tried to talk to you about some of the
 other teams and all you kept doing was bring up guys like McCorkle, Hopkins,
 MaCrea etc...Also the SU fans I met last year at the tournament were the
 same way all they wanted to talk about was their team nobody else...

 It's not a knock per se but rather a comment that SU fans bleed orange only...

 ;^)

 mike

-re Mike


    The name is Cave, Alan Cave (sorry too much James Bond on TBS last night).
I think you have your noters mixed up.  I only saw the last few minutes of
the Syracuse-Gtown game and never saw or commented on Kelley.  

    I think some of you are falsely blaming Joe for having Orange glasses on
(at least in terms of the POTY award).  Billy Owens has as much right to that
award as Murdock and in some people's opinions more.  Providence would 
probaby be 8 or 9 without him instead of 7.  However, as someone else stated,
Syracuse without Owens would be a middle of the pact team instead of the
Number 1 Big East team and a potential #1 in the EAST regional.  



                                                            ALan

> It's not a knock per se but rather a comment that SU fans bleed orange only...

That's a fair statement Mike, at least as far as I'm concerned.  Syracuse
basketball is sports' lifeblood in upstate NY.

But I believe that I'm very knowledgeable re: the other BE teams and their
players (I watch many games, get the yearbook, the bi-weekly news letter)
and in this situation the Syracuse player is the best in the conference
(IMO).  It's call Player of the Year, not Most Valuable Player !

BTW, I thought I heard on FAN last night that the BE teams, etc. were
announced, anyone got the info ?


Joe

Below are the BET results to-date.  In 84 BET games, the lower seed has only
won 21 (a clean 25%).


'80 (@Hartford)
	3  G'town  60
	6  SH      47		G'town  76
						G'town  87
	2  SJ      48		SJ      66
	7  PC      44
							MVP Craig Shelton (G)
	4  UConn   79
	5  BC      68		UConn    61
						SU      81
	1  SU      bye		SU       92


'81 (@Syracuse)
	8  PC      67
	1  BC      65		PC	 49
						Vill	80
	4  Vill    65		Vill	 58 (OT)
	5  UConn   54
							MVP Leo Rautins (SU)
	2  G'town  58
	7  SH      52		G'town	 53
						SU	83 (3 OTs)
	6  SU      71		SU	 67
	3  SJ      66


'82 (@Hartford)
	1  Vill    88
	8  SH      73		Vill	 79
						Vill	54
	4  BC      94		BC       71
	5  SU      92
							MVP Eric Floyd (G)
	2  G'town  62
	7  PC      48		G'town	 57
						G'town	72
	3  SJ      54		SJ	 42
	6  UConn   52


'83 (@MSG)
9  SH	73
8  PC	64

	9  SH      56
	1  BC	   79		BC	 80
						BC	77
	5  SU	   79		SU	 74
	4  G'town  72
							MVP  Chris Mullin (SJ)
	3  SJ	   64
	6  Pitt    53		SJ	 91
						SJ	85
	2  Vill    69		Vill	 80
	7  UConn   68


'84 (@MSG)
9  SH   55
8  PC	59

	8  PC	   50
	1  G'town  70		G'town	 79
						G'town	82 (OT)
	5  SJ	   57		SJ	 68
	4  BC	   56
							MVP  Patrick Ewing (G)
	3  Vill	   75
	6  Pitt    65		Vill	 65
						SU	71
	2  SU      73		SU	 66
	7  UConn   58


'85 (@MSG)
9  SH	75
8  PC   77

	8  PC	   62
	1  SJ	   90		SJ	 89
						SJ	80
	4  Vill	   69		Vill	 74
	5  Pitt    61
							MVP Patrick Ewing (G)
	3  SU      70
	6  BC      69		SU	 65
						G'town	92
	2  G'town  93		G'town	 74
	7  UConn   62


'86 (@MSG)
9  SH	76
8  UConn66

	9  SH	   68
	1  SJ	   87		SJ	 75
						SJ	70
	4  Vill	   75		Vill	 64
	5  PC	   63
							MVP Dwayne Washington S
	3  G'town  57
	6  Pitt    56		G'town	 73
						SU	69
	2  SU      102		SU	 75 (OT)
	7  BC      79


'87 (@MSG)
9  UConn59
8  BC	61

	8  BC      51
	1  G'town  56		G'town	 84
						G'town	69
	4  PC	   80		PC	 66
	5  SJ	   51
							MVP Reggie Williams (G)
	3  SU      72
	6  Vill    66		SU	 99
						SU	59
	2  Pitt    96		Pitt	 85
	7  SH      88


'88 (@MSG)
9  UConn75
8  PC	62

	9  UConn   58
	1  Pitt    75		Pitt	 69
						Vill	68
	4  Vill    71		Vill	 72
	5  SJ	   68
							MVP Sherman Douglas (S)
	3  G'town  57
	6  SH      61		SH	 63
						SU	85
	2  SU	   67		SU	 68
	7  BC	   53


'89 (@MSG)
9  BC	81
8  SJ   74

	9  BC	   52
	1  G'town  82		G'town	 85
						G'town	88
	4  Pitt    71		Pitt	 62
	5  Vill    66
							MVP Charles Smith (G)
	3  SU      79
	6  PC      76		SU	 81
						SU	79
	2  SH      74		SH	 78
	7  UConn   66


'90 (@MSG)
9  BC   70
8  Pitt 88

	8  Pitt    55
	1  SU	   58		SU	 73
						SU	75
	4  SJ	   60		Vill	 61
	5  Vill    70
							MVP Chris Smith (UConn)
	3  G'town  78
	6  PC      77		G'town	 60
						UConn	78
	2  UConn   76		UConn	 65
	7  SH      58


'91 (@MSG)
9  BC
8  Vill

	8-9
	1  SU	   

	4  SH
	5  Pitt

	3  UConn
	6  G'town

	2  SJ
	7  Prov

    Player of the Year in theory is a lot simpler than Most Valuable
    Player.  Player of the Year should go to the best player, period. 
    A better case can be made for Owens than Murdock for that award.
    
    Most Valuable Player is where differing standards are more applicable. 
    If you believe that MVP should go to the person who is most important
    to his team (ie, without him, they'd be in the toilet) then Murdock
    should be MVP by that standard.  Then of course you get the arguments
    of "well, how good can Murdock really be for a team that finished 7-9
    in the league?" and so on.
    
    So, I go on.  I don't worry about it.
    
    John

Ok Alan perhaps I did confuse you with another noter I apologize....

Joe never said you weren't knowledgable about the other teams just that
it seems you could care less about anyone but SU...

John pretty much summed up what I've been saying all along and as I stated
at the begining I based my vote on most valuable not bestest player...;^)
Then Joe jumps at me cause I slight Owens and were off in a rathole...
Oh well it wasn't like I didn't expect..hahhaaa

Atleast it won't be like the ACC where a Rick Fox makes first team before
"Tommy Googs" and Kenny Anderson before Corch....

mike

>Joe never said you weren't knowledgable about the other teams just that
>it seems you could care less about anyone but SU...

Syracuse fan 1st;  Big East fan 2nd.  I love to talk about Syracuse, but
I have an appreciation for guys like Sealy, Dehere, Smith, Woodard, etc.
and would never take anything away from them (see my BE teams in a previous
note).  I don't talk just Syracuse, as my notes regarding updated standings,
BET history, weekly results and schedules, attest.  And I think I've made
some insightful comments about G'town this year too...especially when it
comes to Mourning and why he SHOULD stay next year (God knows I don't want
to see him back).


FWIW, I don't think Syracuse is going to win this tournament.  But after
the great regular season, it'll be easier to take.  I do believe that
they will be in the Final 8, and very possibly the Final 4 (especially
with Arizona losing over the weekend, and likely to get #2 in the West...
and BTW, I think they'll beat UNLV !!!!).


Joe

For all you Big East fans ....

I've done a little playing around with the Big East numbers and results over
the years.  One thing that jumps out at me is just how pointless the Big East
tournament is in terms of changing the results.  Only once has someone below
the top 4 seeds advanced to the finals - 6th seeded Syracuse in 1981, and SU
won the tournament.  Up until this year, of the 11 tournaments that have been
held, the title game has seen #1 vs #2 5 times and #1 vs #3 4 times.  When it's
been #3 vs #1 in the title game, #3 has had to beat #2 each time to get there.
When #1 has been in there, #1 has had to beat #4 6 of the 9 times.  This post-
season tournament has run very true to form, ie, the regular season very ac-
curately reflects the relative strengths of the teams.

1981 and 1988 were the most upset laden years.  1981 saw #8 Providence knock
off #1 BC in the first game and #6 Syracuse knock off #3 St Johns and #2
Georgetown to reach and win the title game against #4 Villanova.  1988 pitted
#2 SU vs #4 Villanova so even that year didn't have all that many upsets.  No
7th seed has ever won a game, the 8th seed has only won once, the 6th seed has
only advanced out of the 1st round twice while the 5th seed has only advanced
out of the first round 3 times.  In other words, if you want to play in the
semifinals, you damn well better finish in the top 4 during the regular season.

The following chart shows how teams have finished in the regular season with
average final standing:

Team	  1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9

GT  2.58  3	3	4	1	0	1	0	0	0
SU  2.83  3	3	3	0	2	1	0	0	0
SJ  3.50  2	2	3	1	3	0	0	1	0
VU  4.18  1	1	1	4	2	1	0	1	0
Pit 4.78  1	1	0	1	2	3	0	1	0
BC  5.83  2	0	0	2	1	1	2	1	3
UC  6.17  0	1	1	1	1	1	4	1	2
PC  6.83  0	0	0	1	1	2	3	5	0
SH  6.92  0	1	0	1	0	2	3	1	4

I don't have total wins and losses in the regular season to plug in here but I
do have wins and losses in the tournament:

	record		1st	2nd	3rd

GT	21-5		6	0	3	(Beat SU in final 4 times)
SU	18-9		2	7	2	(never lost in first round)
SJ	11-9		2	0	3
VU	11-10		0	3	5
Pit	 4-7		0	0	3	(never played for title)
BC	 5-11		0	1	1
UC	 5-10		1	0	1
PC	 4-11		0	0	2	(never played for title)
SH	 4-11		0	0	2	(never played for title)

If you read across, you'll see each team's tournament record against each other:

team	BC	UC	GT	PC	PIT	SH	SJ	SU	VU

BC	 X	1-1	0-2	0-1	0-1	1-0	1-2	2-3	0-1
UC	1-1	 X	1-1	1-0	0-1	1-2	0-1	1-2	0-2
GT	2-0	1-1	 X	4-0	2-0	2-1	4-0	5-3	1-0
PC	1-0	0-1	0-4	 X	0-0	2-1	1-2	0-1	0-2
PIT	1-0	1-0	0-2	0-0	 X	1-0	0-1	0-1	1-3
SH	0-1	2-1	1-2	1-2	0-1	 X	0-1	0-2	0-1
SJ	2-1	1-0	0-4	2-1	1-0	1-0	 X	1-1	3-2
SU	3-2	2-1	3-5	1-0	1-0	2-0	1-1	 X	5-0
VU	1-0	2-0	0-1	2-0	3-1	1-0	2-3	0-5	 X
    

> SU	18-9		2	7	2	(never lost in first round)
						***************************
								       *****
> team	BC	UC	GT	PC	PIT	SH	SJ	SU     *VU *
> SU	3-2	2-1	3-5	1-0	1-0	2-0	1-1	 X     *5-0*
								       *****

Thanks alot John, you just put the "kiss of death" on my team !


I believe that this year is a little different than the years past, in
that after Syracuse, there is no other "power" in the Big East.  And
while Syracuse has done extremely well in winning the close games (8-0
in games decided by 4 pts or less, or in OT...or something like that),
they haven't dominated anyone other than BC.

Take Syracuse and BC out of the picture (and Villanova can do this),
and all hell could break loose this year, as there isn't much that
separates #2 from #8 (3 games!).

Possibly one reason why there aren't many upsets in the BET, is that
it's played at MSG, where no one has a homecourt advantage.  In fact,
the only time a #6 won the title was when SU didn't AT THE CARRIER DOME.


Joe

    I never try to put the kiss of death on anyone, I just report the
    facts.  Interesting to note that the only pairing that has never
    happened in the history of the BET is Providence vs Pittsburgh and that
    won't happen this year either unless they make it to the finals.
    
    John

Yup great stuff John what was that record again SU 0-4 in finals against the
Hoyas. :^) mAn Boehiem must have nightmares about the Hoyas not only do they 
own them in the tournament they closed down Manley with a victory to snap SU's
55 game winning streak there...

best news is my aunt found two more tickets so I think I'm on way down on friday

How come they don't suspend Billy this week for bad grades?  ;^)

mike

>team	BC	UC	GT	PC	PIT	SH	SJ	SU	VU

>GT	2-0	1-1	 X	4-0	2-0	2-1	4-0	5-3	1-0


Hey Mike, check again, the only team to "own" the Hoyas in the BET appears
to Syracuse !  They've taken 'em out 3 times.  No one else has beaten
them more than once.

>How come they don't suspend Billy this week for bad grades?  ;^)

You know something the rest of us don't know ?

Mike, just think if Billy stays for his senior year --> guaranteed
grief for you next year too !

	"SU beats Hoyas for 6th straight time"...

	"Billy Owens, 1st back-to-back BE Player of the Year"...

	"Billy Owens Wins Wooden Award (AGAIN)!"...

	"Syracuse finishes undefeated in regular season!!"


My how the tables have turned.

Nope Joe just wishful think about Owens....while SU has beaten GT 3 times in
the tournament they have lost to them 5 times including a big goose egg in
the finals against the mighty Hoyas!

 it's official we're out here friday and on our way down to naturally help
 the crowd boo the hail out of SU!!!!!!!!

    Guys,
    
    	Lest you not forget, LOUIEEE and the boy's do lIKE to play
    spoiler!  I hope LOUIEEE has the boys foaming at the mouth to
    play.  If they do, lookout GT, SU et al!!!!!!!!
    
    	If not, I'll be found hiding in a coat closet so's I don't
    have to see them get squished :*(
    
    	Here's hoping that the Phil S - KOD comments earlier this season
    have been neutralized!
    
    Mikey,
    	I'll be with ya in spirit.  Have fun!!!  BTW, this year, if they
    have a "Big East" type hat, I'd like to place an order.  My collection
    doesn't do duplicates/repeats & lasted year's SJU hat took care of
    that void.  Didn't you p/u a BE tournament had lasted year?  I'm
    kind of fuzzy with remembering what ones you got.
    
    	Oh yeah, right now my collection numbers 68.  The nexted one will
    be soicent-neuf (OK so my French is lousy but you get the idea) - a
    place of honor!
    
    GO LOUIEEEEE!!!!!!
    
    	Kev
    ]

    South Mountain H.S., led by Brian Fair (signed letter of intent with
    UCONN), won the division 5A Arizona state championship last night.  It
    was on local TV and was the first time I've seen him play.  He's quite
    a player!
    
    Mike

Does anyone out there know the "nuts-and-bolts" of the Sagarin Computer
Ratings ?  Generally, I know that it's based on performance combined with
strength of schedule, but I want to know what's really happening.

How can Georgia, at 15-11, be rated #15 ?...and Syracuse, at 25-4, #14 ????

    I don't know the exact nuts and bolts, but I'll bet it goes something
    like this.
    
    1.  A team gets a certain amount of points for each win.
    2.  A team gets a certain amount of points for the quality of the
    opposition.
    3.  The quality of the opposition is determined by the quality of its
    opposition.
    4.  It continues on down the line until everyone is accounted for.
    
    I don't know what the SEC schedules are like, but I do know, for
    example, Georgetown plays a really weak schedule.  Syracuse's 2 wins
    over Georgetown are probably highly discounted because of all the
    Division 2 teams the Hoyas play.
    
    The details of the system aren't public information, I'm sure.
    
    John

>    2.  A team gets a certain amount of points for the quality of the
>    opposition.
>    3.  The quality of the opposition is determined by the quality of its
>    opposition.
>    4.  It continues on down the line until everyone is accounted for.

In other words, they're trying to encourage playing as tough a schedule
as you can.  I can respect the intent, but this system cannot be the sole
determinant of the relative strength of a team, (and I'm sure it isn't).

I wonder how "quality of opposition" is determined ?  Based on point
differentials ?  That's risky, especially if they don't consider
where the game is played.

I believe it's safe to say that UNLV is the best team in the country, but
if all of their non-conference games were against very weak Div. 1 and
Div. 2 schools, they probably wouldn't make Sagarin's Top 10.

Despite a North Carolina being #3 in Sagarin's ratings, I don't think
you'll see them get a #1 seed unless they win the ACC tourney and Syracuse
loses the BET.  Hopefully human judgement will prevail.


Ohio St. lost last night (to Purdue), and finishes on the road at Iowa.
This could change the seedings.  Before last night I had the #1s and #2s
like this:

	EAST		SOUTHEAST		MIDWEST		WEST

	Duke		Arkansas		Ohio St.	UNLV
	Arizona		Indiana			SU <----???---->NC

    Quality of opposition depends mostly (from what I understand) on its
    record.  While I don't know the specifics of the Sagarin system, I do
    know what happens in the Mass High Schools system for determining the
    competing teams in the football playoffs.  This awards teams points for
    the number of wins it has, and the number of wins amassed by its beaten
    opponents.
    
    A team gets 10 points for each win against a team in its own division
    regardless of that team's record.  It gets 8 points for a win against a
    team in one division lower, 6 points for a win against a team in two
    divisions lower, 4 points for a win against a team in three divisions
    lower, 2 points for a win against a team in four divisions lower; 12
    points for a win against a team in a division higher, 14 points for a
    a win against a team in two divisions higher, 16 points for a win
    against a team in three divisions higher and 18 points for a win
    against a team in four divisions higher.  This system therefore
    encourages a football team to play its games against theoretically
    equal or higher competition.  It hurts the schools from the bigger
    divisions (ie, the Catholic Conference) which can't fill its non-league
    schedule against teams from the same division but helps the schools
    from the lower divisions who may end of playing these schools from
    higher divisions.  A good Division 2 or 3 team can rack up a lot of
    points if it ends up having to play (and beat) a lot of Division 1
    schools.  All losses are created equal but all wins are not.  In other
    words, a school will be hurt equally by a loss regardless of whether
    that loss is to the biggest school in the state or the smallest school
    in the state.  I don't know if the Sagarin system does anything with
    this.
    
    For this part of the formula, the Sagarin system and the MIAA system
    are probably pretty close to equal.  Where they differ is in
    determining the quality of the competition.
    
    The MIAA awards teams 2 points for each win that its beaten opponents
    have.  Opponents of a team that it has lost to are not considered. 
    Again, all losses are created equal.  The quality of the schedule that
    its beaten opponents have isn't considered.  What does matter is the
    quality of a given team's non-league opponents and for its beaten
    opponents in the same league, the quality of the non-league schedule
    because the league games all tend to cancel themselves out.  So, if a
    given team in a given league plays strong non-league opponents and the
    other teams in a given league play strong non-league opponents as well
    and beat them, then if that given team has a good record, it has a good
    shot at going to the Super Bowl.  Where the Sagarin formula goes
    further is in the assessment of the beaten opponents wins - they are
    all considered equal in the MIAA system (2 points) but probably are not
    considered equal in the Sagarin system.  The Sagarin system is probably
    more complex and analyzes the quality of the beaten opponents and then
    the quality of their beaten opponents and so.  It's kind of like the
    thing that comes up every year "well, Amherst beat Springfield and
    Springfield beat Central Connecticut and Central Connecticut beat UConn
    and UConn beat Yale and Yale beat Army and Army beat Navy and Navy beat
    Notre Dame so therefore Amherst should be able to beat Notre Dame."
    
    I don't know enough about the Syracuse schedule off the top of my head
    and why they are so poorly ranked relative to the polls, but consider
    Georgetown for a minute.  If you consider the quality of their
    non-league schedule (poor, at best) and then look at how strong those
    non-league teams were and how strong the opponents of the non-league
    teams are and so on, you can get a pretty good idea of why Georgetown
    is where they are.
    
    2 last points to keep in mind:
    
    1.  A weaker team will tend to play a stronger schedule than a stronger
    team will, because neither of them can play each other.  For example,
    Syracuse played a weaker schedule than BC did because BC played a team
    that was 12-4 in the league while Syracuse played a team that was 1-15
    in the league.
    
    2.  This doesn't really matter in a system where there is a playoff
    because the playoff is designated to settle just who the best team is. 
    A rating system like this is far more applicable and useful in football
    (just like polls are more useful and necessary in football, though not
    great, and are completely useless in hoops) because there is no
    playoff.
    
    John 

>    1.  A weaker team will tend to play a stronger schedule than a stronger
>    team will, because neither of them can play each other.  For example,
>    Syracuse played a weaker schedule than BC did because BC played a team
>    that was 12-4 in the league while Syracuse played a team that was 1-15
>    in the league.

Good point John.  This is similar to the situation you gave with the
Catholic football schools.

Thanks for going through that.

    The Sagarin rating system attempts (I say attempts because any
    analytical sports rating system that goes too far starts yielding 
    diminishing returns, IMO) to be more scientific than a system like 
    the one John described which purely uses wins (and maybe losses) as 
    inputs.  The system is a neural network in which each game result is 
    entered back into the information base and cross-referenced against 
    all other game results.  As long as a Team A played a team who played
    another team who played yet another team who played Team B, Teams A &
    B can in some way be compared.  If you get enough information (which
    isn't always the case), the system should work pretty well.  
    
    An opponents' won-loss record is not the critical factor in 
    determining strength of schedule; rather, how that team fared 
    against *its* competition and so on down the line (with all the 
    results recursively looped back as reference points) is the key.
    
    Excellent losses *are* rewarded.  It is possible for a team to lose to
    a better team in the system and to rise in the rankings (I think this
    makes sense for the most part).  Margin of victory or defeat is
    considered, with a cap placed on credit for blow-outs.  What I don't
    like is the home-court factor: the visiting team is credited with an
    automatic point spread (it's 3 points in the football system) that can
    actually turn a winner into a loser and vice-versa.  To me, actually
    winning the game should always be the most important variable because 
    messing around with point spreads to determine a "winner" in the system
    can be misleading and distort the facts of who actually controlled the
    game.
    
    At least for football, I have found the Sagarin system to be pretty 
    good for judging the strength of disparate teams that don't get to play
    each other or many common opponents, but not as good for ranking teams 
    for the purposes of determining a champion, after the fact.  The reason 
    for this is the weight given to margin of victory, home field, etc., 
    when it should really come down to who wins the big games no matter how
    they did it, and all else be damned...
    
    glenn
        

    Thanks for filling me in on the details about the Sagarin system.  It
    certainly clears up how it works.
    
    In the Toilet Bowl last night, BC blew a double digit lead and lost to
    Villanova 74-73 on 2 free throws with 2.x seconds left.  Villanova
    plays Syracuse today.
    
    John

>    In the Toilet Bowl last night, BC blew a double digit lead and lost to
>    Villanova 74-73 on 2 free throws with 2.x seconds left.

According to USA Today, BC had a 69-59 lead with about 2 minutes left.


I know Villanova isn't playing well down the stretch this season, but
I'll still sweat this one out today.

    Are today's games being broadcast on any local radio stations?  I
    thought I saw a note in here some where that gave a station, but I
    can't seem to find it now.
    
    
    Thanks!!

I don't know about radio stations broadcasting the BET, but it is on
WWOR (TV - CH9 out of NJ), and WSBK (CH38) TV.  I'll be heading home
in about 15 minutes.

    Anyone got an update on this afternoon's action?
    
    
    py

	Seton Hall won the opener 70-69.

    Big East Tournament Update..............
    
    
    				Syracuse       40
    				Villanova      37
    
                                     with 17:00 left
    
    
    - Ken -

    
    Syracuse pulls the big choke!  And they usually wait for the NCAA's!
    
    Go P.C.!!
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    This can't be happening!  Arrrgh!!   What is it with Villanova? They
    must have some kind of voodoo curse on Syracuse! 

    Oh well, it looks as though they could be Westward bound by next week.

    Trying to look at the bright side, at least they will be well rested
    and very hungry to redeem themselves!

           Maybe even a UNLV / Syracuse match-up may come out of this. It
      could be a very interesting game!

    Review of the B.E.T.....
    
    I missed the 'nova/BC game, but went to all the rest of the games.
    
    SHU/Pitt was an excellent game. Two evenly matched teams going down to
    the last second before Taylor drove the lane and layed the ball in to
    win.
    
    Syracuse/Villanova - SU had as much as a 13 point lead with less than
    10 minutes to play, How they blew this game is still a mystery to me.
    After Ellis fouled out and Owens had got his fifth foul, everything
    started going right for 'nova. And the Orange choke once again.
    
    St. Johns/Providence - I slept through some of this game. Kinda dull.
    The Redmen looked like they might pull away a couple of times, but PC
    kept coming back and closing the gap to 1 or 2 points before taking the
    lead and the game.
    
    UConn/G'town - ugliest game of the tourny. I think both teams shot
    under 30% from the field. G'town won by virtue of defense and 27
    rebounds by their big center, Metumbo(sp?). UConn couldn't do anything
    the whole game. We were wondering if either team would score 50 points.
    LOTS of fouls...some called, some not called.
    
    SATURDAY:
    --------
    
    Seton Hall/Nova - great game. No big leads. Taylor was the hot man for
    the HALL once again. Rollie knows how to coach a game. He got alot out
    of a team that was really overmatched in both the Syracuse game and
    this one. Taylor with the bucket at 1.7 seconds to win it for the Hall
    
    Providence/G'town - Defense and rebounding again. Providence was really
    overmatched inside, but G'town didn't exploit it as much as they should
    have. The Hoyas can't shoot from the outside, but are very tough on the
    boards and get alot of chances.
    
    Sunday:
    -------
    
    SHU beats G'town after leading for the majority of the game. Close game
    at the half, but the hall pulled away late and won it. Mourning and
    Avent were going at each other all game. Lots of uncalled fouls.
    Typical Georgetown thuggery. Lots of elbows, shoves, etc...from the
    Horrors. But, the Hall was a better all around team and they proved it.
    
    SHU....B.E.T. CHAMPS

    The Redmen's March choke continued for a fourth successive year, with
    its "One game and out (in the BE Tourney)" plan.
    
    How embarrassing.  The frontcourt can stand by itself, but this team
    has no (none, nada, zero, etc......) shooting guards.  What a disgrace.
    
    I wonder whether some of those Elite Republican (Two) Guards could do
    a better job than Sproling, Mullin, et al.
     
    Enough said.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

This was by no means a form-laden tournament.  The 6th, 7th and 8th seeds all
won in the first round.  In addition, the tournament saw Syracuse's first-ever
first round loss (to Villanova, a team that had never beaten SU) and the first
title for Seton Hall.

I don't have total wins and losses in the regular season to plug in here but I
do have wins and losses in the tournament:

	record		1st	2nd	3rd

GT	23-6		6	1	3	(Beat SU in final 4 times)
SU	18-10		2	7	2	
SJ	11-10		2	0	3
VU	13-11		0	3	6
Pit	 4-8		0	0	3	(never played for title)
BC	 5-12		0	1	1
UC	 5-11		1	0	1
PC	 5-12		0	0	3	(never played for title)
SH	 6-12		1	0	2	

If you read across, you'll see each team's tournament record against each other:

team	BC	UC	GT	PC	PIT	SH	SJ	SU	VU

BC	 X	1-1	0-2	0-1	0-1	1-0	1-2	2-3	0-2
UC	1-1	 X	1-2	1-0	0-1	1-2	0-1	1-2	0-2
GT	2-0	2-1	 X	5-0	2-0	2-2	4-0	5-3	1-0
PC	1-0	0-1	0-5	 X	0-0	2-1	2-2	0-1	0-2
PIT	1-0	1-0	0-2	0-0	 X	1-1	0-1	0-1	1-3
SH	0-1	2-1	2-2	1-2	1-1	 X	0-1	0-2	1-1
SJ	2-1	1-0	0-4	2-2	1-0	1-0	 X	1-1	3-2
SU	3-2	2-1	3-5	1-0	1-0	2-0	1-1	 X	5-1
VU	2-0	2-0	0-1	2-0	3-1	1-1	2-3	1-5	 X
    
    

    
    How did the NCAA selection committee come to the decision to take
    Villanova over Providence?  I hope it wasn't based on what happened in
    the Big East tournament.  Both teams scored upsets, and what you'd have
    is essentially the lower-seeded team holding an advantage because they
    had the chance to pull the greater upset.
    
    What did Providence and Villanova do head-to-head this year?  Is this
    another example of de-emphasis of the regular season?
    
    I heard Dick Vitale's opinion on the Big East's representation and I
    couldn't disagree with him more.  Not only does ol' Dicky want to put a
    limit on conference representation, but he goes a step further and says
    *everyone* should have a post-season tournament so that with a small
    winning streak *anyone* can make it.  In other words, he's taking the
    seemingly contradictory positions of complaining about all the 20+ win 
    small teams that didn't make it and still wanting the Midwest Athletic
    Smalltime Conference to hold a tournament so that potentially *two* of 
    their teams can go.  There ain't enough slots for that, babeeee... 
    
    glenn
    

    
    Wardle, just out of curiosity, how did you get your BET tickets?
    I called MSG to find out about them, and they told me that the only
    way to get tickets was through the schools.
    
    - Ken -

    Congrat's to PC for wanting it more and beating LOUIEEE and the "boys"
    
    :*(
    
    Congrat's to PJ and the Pirates for winning the BE title!
    
    Congrat's to JoSH.
    
    "the good loser" - Kev :^(
    
    

>    Syracuse/Villanova - SU had as much as a 13 point lead with less than
>    10 minutes to play, How they blew this game is still a mystery to me.

Actually Jim, SU had a 16-pt lead (63-47) with ~ 10 minutes to go!  Just
when I think Jimmy's tortured us with his best heart-breaking losses, he
comes up with one better.

The way I saw it, Ellis' fouling out, and Owens having to sit a while
with 5 fouls hurt Syracuse big, but I still have to fault Boeheim for
not using the clock.  Hell, with 2 starters not out there, he should
have demanded that they use 40 seconds each trip, and set up Johnson
for a shot.  Instead, they were shooting after only 10 seconds or so...
and guys like Edwards and McRae were taking terrible shots.

When Owens returned (with ~ 5 minutes left) the momentum was fully
on Villanova's side, and yet Billy didn't touch the ball until Villanova
tied it up and SU was attempting to regain the lead in the last minute.

With Owens and Johnson both averaging 20+/game, how can they not touch
the ball at the most important time of the game ?  Only Bum-heim knows
for sure!



re: SU's 1st 1st-round loss

John,  Syracuse lost to BC in the 1st round in '82 (in Hartford, 94-92).
Ironincally, they had a 10-pt lead with less than 2 minutes to go and
BC came back to win it.

Again, THANKS JOHN !!!!



re: PC-Vill

I can't see Villanova getting in and NOT Providence.  After seeing this,
and watching Fordham get screwed, no one can tell me that *some* politics
aren't involved here.  Providence and Vill split during the season,
but Villanova had a better rating in the computer.


As for Syracuse's chances ?  The 3 of the last 4 years a Big 10 team has
knocked them out of the tourney (Ind in '87's Final; Ill in '89's Final 8; 
Minn in '90's Final 16).  And so we have Purdue as a potential 2nd-round
opponent this year!

If you believe in this stuff, the only 2 times SU's been to the Final
Four, they were in the East Region.  It appears to be the weakest
region this year, although Oklahoma St. (2 Srs, 3 Jrs) will be tough.
Maybe UCLA will take out NC.  But, for the most part, the committee
was kind to Syracuse.

Someone mentioned that they'll be ready after their loss in the BET.
I could see them going the other way too.  This team hasn't blown
people away during the regular season.  They've been winning all of
the close ones (until Friday).  Friday's loss could be a huge blow
to their confidence.  Not what you want in a "once-and-done" tournament.

    At first, I was REALLY upset with the NCAA for picking Villanova over
    P.C.  Then, after thinking about it, I realized there's one good reason
    for doing so - the coach.  

    Rollie is a whiz (in fact, I think they should give him Big East coach of 
    the year *every* year!), but Barnes can be held personally attributable
    for several P.C. lossses.  Rollie sees something on the court, wham, bam,
    he corrects, he changes, he works at it.  Rick is one of those stoic
    game plan coaches who just doesn't seem to understand what is going on
    in the game and how to learn from it.  I'm having reservations
    about him lately, but, he's winning just enough games to keep him
    there.

    Anyway...  7 Big East teams?  Love it, but don't think was this the
    year... previous years, for sure.

    So... I'm hoping for a great Big East showing.  I'll even root for 
    Syracuse!  Just as long as lots of Big East teams do well.  Keep the 
    conference on top!

    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

>    So... I'm hoping for a great Big East showing.  I'll even root for 
>    Syracuse!  Just as long as lots of Big East teams do well.  Keep the 
>    conference on top!

Sean, if you really are an SU alumnus, you should write Jake Crouthammel
(AD) and complain...especially if you contribute during the annual fund-
raisers, etc.  An alumnus with such dislike for his former school's
team should let it be known.



Big East awards:

	Player of the Year:		Billy Owens (SU) --> unanimous

	1st team:			Billy Owens (SU)
					Eric Murdock (PC)
					Terry Dehere (SH)
					Malik Sealy (SJ)
					Dikembe Mutombo (G)

	Freshman of the Year:		Bill Curley (BC)

	Freshman team:			Bill Curley (BC)
					Adrian Autry (SU)
					Jerry Walker (SH) --> Prop 48 soph
					Churchwell (G)
					Harrison (G)

	Coach of the Year:		Jim Boeheim (SU) --> he showed why,
							didn't he ?

	Defensive Player of the Year:	Dikembe Mutombo (G) --> how can they
						deny Murdock this honor ?


I didn't see the 2nd (or 3rd?) teams, but I did hear that Avent was on
the 2nd team (Boeheim was shocked that he wasn't on the 1st team).

Mike, do you have the 2nd and 3rd teams ?

Billy Who????? Billy Who?? Eric certainly made me look good this weekend!
Joe, Owens shouldn't have even been in the game with 5 minutes left cause
he should have fouled out in the first quarter but no the refs out there to
protect those NY teams but to no avail thank you very much PC and VU...

Great game great time....bestest bestest game of the weekend Seton Hall
and VU, nexted bestest was GT over UConn the Uconn fans were so bad they
had JoJ rooting for Georgetown!! Of course he might have switched over 
just after they opened upa 15 point lead I'm not sure. And the Bestest
game of the weekend SU/Villinova. Never thought SU would loose with
Edwards shooting that good.

Sat with some Georgetown fas and they were a riot. Totally convinced that
Georgetown should just shoot 100 shots a game. Who cares if you only shoot
27% thast alteast 54 points a few foul shots, and we should be able to play
enough D.

Novas made it over PC because of schedule strength. The beat LSU and lost to
Arizona but like Glenn explained it they got points for a_excellent loss to
Arizona because of Arizona's mucho higher ranking. PC as much as I love em
only played a Georgetown prototypical schedule. YOu know the same one Ohio
State used this year.

Can't see why Harrison and Churchwell made it ahead of Brown he's the more
complete player. Glad to see Dehere make it ahead of Smith.

Georgetown will beat UNLV next week and then loose later on that's if they don't
loose first to Vandy. But the dummy on WFAN said that Larry Johnson would beat
up Mutumbo and Mourning yeah right. Mourning played himself back into the 
lottery the last two weeks and no Larry Johnson is going to have his way with
him. Best part about listening to WFAN last night on the way home was that
everyone that called in to complain about who made it and who didn't bitched
about Georgetown. Not Villinova not Pitt, Not Iowa , Not Purdue, Not George
Tech...hahhahhahaaaaaa I love it!!!!

The other half of JoJ story from the Pirates note continued: " I wanted to buy
this really cool Georgetown swea<tshirt but they had no extra larges left on
Sunday. So I says to the lady what do you have in an extra large? We have this one
Seton Hall sweatshirt so I says ok I'll take it. She then noticed my digital
sweatshirt I have on she you work at DEC? I says yup. She says "You switch
teams like this?" I says yeah. She ys "Are you DOCTOR MIDNIGHT?"

many smiles more later
GO Pirates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mike

    > Georgetown will beat UNLV
    
    Ho ho haw!!!  Good un, Mike.  Now I read in my paper this morning how
    poor Tark is moanin' cause Gougetown (tm) was one of 2 teams he feared
    playing.  Course Arizona was the other one.  Boo hoo!!
    
    What a crock.  Vegas will roll over the Hoyas with no problem, just
    like they're gonna roll over anybody else unfortunate enough to get in
    the way.  
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Laugh all you like Chris but if and I agree it's a mighty big if, if someone
 is going to beat UNLV it's going to be a team like Georgetown. Georgetown
 with their inside defense can force UNLV to the perimeter and hopefully 
 they're cold out there. Georgetown still has the ability to take away a
 team's break as well. Their offense is atroucious but the tools are there 
 to run a decent enough stall to keep Vegas' posessions' down and hopefully
 the score. Johnson can be neturalize by Mutumbo's quickness and the guards
 can do a decent job on Hunt and Anthony I just don't know who's going to
 stop Augmon.

 If they loose it will be because they can't shoot straight not because
 they're intimated and didn't come to play. 

 mike 

    I'm with ya, Mike, except that Georgetown's backcourt is suspect and
    might get ripped.
    
    I don't like either team so it's going to be a pleasure watching them
    beat up on each other...unless Georgetown loses to Vandy...not all that
    out of the question.
    
    	--dan'l

yeah Dan-l but they're suspect offensively not defensively. They also can
rotate 4 guys there and go either big or small. 

they can win, they can also get beat by fifty. Also they're not good enough
to look ahead so hopefully they are concentrating on beating Vandy first...

mike

> and the guards can do a decent job on Hunt and Anthony

I'm not sure this is true.  Georgetown hasn't had that "pestering"
defensive play, causing turnovers and bad shots, from their back-
court this year.  I don't see any size there, and you're right,
they have no one to control Augmon.

IMO, their ONLY chance is to keep the game in the 50's.  G'town's
guards don't score enough, and you're not going to get 40 pts out
of Mourning and Mutombo combined.

I think Arizona has the best chance to knock off UNLV.  They have the
size inside to give UNLV fits on the boards, AND they can score from
both inside and out.  They also have a transition game that UNLV will
have to respect.

If they're on their game, I can see them beating UNLV.

>               -< Repeat of last years #8 UNC vs. #1 OU?  Nah. >-

What are you saying here Chris ?  Which match-up this year looks like
the one above ?

    > What are you saying here Chris ?  Which match-up this year looks
    > like the one above ?
    
    In MikeChilds wildest fantasies, this years potential match-up of #1
    West seed UNLV vs. #8 West seed Georgetown would compare favorably with 
    last years #1 Southeast seed Oklahoma vs. #8 Southeast seed North Carolina.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

 Joe while the guards haven't been pests they haven't allowed teams to
 pentrate or bomb away from the perimeter. They've been solid not spectacular
 like we're used to seeing at Georgetown but not bad. The size is when they
 switch Morgan and Churchwell into the backcourt. They are no freebie against
 them you work for what you get.

 Georgetown's biggest problem is that Mourning can't play zone defense out
 on the wing he get beats constantly so JT uses Kelley here. It hurts them
 on the boards. Mourning can play zone great when he's in the middle but
 other than that he doesn't either understand the principals of a zone.
 And you certainly can't take Mutumbo out of the middle...

 Chris, 5 or 6 guys from Vegas going to pros how many from OU made it last
 year? I didn't see UNC starting three freshman last year so comparable isn't
 even a word here. It's just you usual attemp to bolster any win that UNC
 has to greater height. Please don't get me start I haven't run down Snuffy
 in long time....

 ;^)

 mike

    re: tickets
    
    We got the BET tix from Mike Childs' aunt/uncle. UConn fans and
    supporters I'm sorry to say.
    
    Mike is right, I ended up rooting for G'town vs UConn because the UConn
    fans are a bunch of whiners. What babies. Every call that was made they
    were unhappy with.  They were saying all kinds of stuff about Mourning
    and Metumbo. I never thought anyone could cause me to root for G;town,
    but the UConn fans did it.
    
    Joj

    JOJ -
    
    If you want to see *REAL* whining and complaining, check out a UConn vs
    BC game in anything.  Now that will really turn your stomach!  It would
    probably turn you into a Mets and Giants fan ...  :-)
    
    John

Ah, go blow all of yas...

At least you got to see the game.  The one and only sports bar I could
find in Nassau showed the Czyz vs Someone-or-other fight...  It wasn't
even interesting....

;^)

'Saw

    UCONN fans just want to win.  I see nothing wrong with being biased
    at the moment and then being rational and objective after the game 8*)
    We never foul, the call always goes the wrong way, the refs pay is 
    being supplemented by some fatcat alumni from the other team etc...
    The fact that Madison Square Garden sells beer and hard booze during
    the game and UCONN students have a bus ride home afterwords doesn't
    hurt the anti-anyone playing UCONN theme in the stands.
    
    Jimbo

    >>We never foul, the call always goes the wrong way, the refs pay is 
    >>being supplemented by some fatcat alumni from the other team etc...
    
    Ahhh, I see you've sat in the UConn section before...8^)
    
    >>The fact that Madison Square Garden sells beer and hard booze during
    >>the game and UCONN students have a bus ride home afterwords doesn't
    >>hurt the anti-anyone playing UCONN theme in the stands.
    
    Well, I'm sure this added to it. The woman in front of me was as quiet
    as a mouse during the first three games on Friday, but when UConn took
    the court she was shouting every obscenity you've ever heard at the
    refs and the Georgetown players. What a riot. So then I had some recent
    UConn grad sitting next to me that decided he could antagonize this
    woman real easily...so he did. He had her pissing and moaning all game.
    
    ha ha....I had a great time.
    
    JoJ

Yeah, but JoJ, in all honesty, how many sports fans do you know that
are truly objective?

Don't you get hyped up over the Jets and SHU?  

Rabid fandom is what sport is all about.  If you think it's bad in
this area, go to Texas, or some place down South.  

I didn't get a chance to see the game, unfortunately, so I can't
address that...

'Saw

    Frank, you of all people should know that when it comes to sports I'm
    totally objective. 
    
    JoJ
    
    PS - The Jets do have three all pro wide receivers.

    ALL-LONG ISLAND 6'3" 2G Derek Brow, from Carey HS, made a verbal 
    commitment to play hoops at SJU for the next four years.  Brown is a 
    candidate for the 1991 McDonald's All-American Team. 
    
    Brown averaged 36.8 ppg this season - the best on Long Island.  He also
    averaged 11.7 rpg, 7.2 apg and shot 62% from the field and 48% from
    3-point range.  Brown was also recruited by Duquesne, St. Peter's, St.
    Joseph's, Manhattan, Fairleigh Dickinson, Miami and Providence, but his
    "lifelong dream was to go to St. John's", according to his coach,
    Michael Vertovez.
    
    Redmen Phil 

    Phil,
    
    	THAT'S GREAT NEWS!!!!!
    
    As a side note, H. Frank Carey H.S. is in Franklin Square, my home
    town!  small world.......
    
    As a lad, I had Boy Scout meetings and CYO basketball events there.
    
    Carey H.S. vs Sewanika H.S. (in neighboring Elmont) had one of the
    biggest T-Day football rivalries on L.I.
    Sewanika H.S. was a track powerhouse, coached by a guy Jim Fraley.
    I'm telling you this becaus ethey once had a top rated miler/distance
    guy named J. Devlin!! (no relation)
    
    GO LOUIEEE.......GO FRANKLIN SQUARE!!!!!!
    
    Kev
    

    Boeheim... The Dean Smith of the Big East.....
    
    REK

Wow --

UCONN blows LSU outta the water!

I was watching the Whalers beat Detroit before flipping over to catch
the big trial on LA Law and was switching to the UCONN game off and
on.  

I couldn't believe how UCONN outplayed LSU.  A smaller, peskier team
seemed to deny them a lot of opportunities....

Great win.

'Saw

    Syracuse ruined the Big East's perfect record yesterday...what a bunch
    of stiffs. Boheim should get the axe now....they oughta hire Rollie.
    
    JoJ

Where do I start.  There's so much to say about the Syracuse game and about
the team and coach in general.  

First off all, Congrats to Richmond, as they not only played a great game
but were simply the better team out there on the floor.  Forget the talent,
they were a better basketball team.

As for Syracuse, what an embarassment to themselves and the Big East fans.
There defense was terrible and they stood around on offense.  Some questions
I must ask.

1) Has Syracuse even heard of a pick
2) Why does Edwards pass up the open 3 and then shoot a long jumper with 
someone in his face.  
2A) Why does Edwards shoot at all
3) Why did Owens spent so much time on the perimeter
3A) When he was inside (with Richmond collapsed around him) why did the rest
of the team stand around watching while the guards forced the ball to him.

There are many more questions to be asked and answered.

Syracuse certainly didn't come to play (the announcer mentioned that 
Syracuse was fooling around at practice and was taking Richmond lightly).
How could they take a team known for upsets lightly especially after
a first round exit in the Big East tourney.  This is where the blame
to totally to Jimmy B.  Is he clueless (nothing new here).
The one bright side is that with a first round loss in both the Big East
tourney and the NCAA's, maybe they can remove him.

Foul trouble also hurt Syracuse as the refs were calling a lot of touch and 
incidental contact fouls.   The Big East's 6 foul rule definitely hurt
Syracuse since the Orangemen didn't seem to know how to handle foul
trouble (players and coaches).  Owens became very tenative defensively and
allowed Richmond post up players to shoot uncontested turn-around jumpers.


Joe, I curious to hear your thoughts.



                                                            ALan

Congratulations to all of yesterday's *BIG* East winners !!  Especially
UConn.  Take it from me, appreciate *big time* performance.  Even Pitt
has my admiration this morning...coming back from a 10-pt 2nd 1/2 deficit
to win in OT.



How prophetic was yesterday's The National ?  On the front page they had
pictures of Bob Knight and Jim Boeheim and the title is:

	THE BEST AND THE WORST (game coaches)

I don't have to tell you who was which ?  Of all of the coaches in the
country, this writer had Bum-heim as the #1 WORST game coach.  Here are
some of his comments:

	-  Syracuse may beat you, but Jim Boeheim won't.
	-  Boeheim is Coach Lassez-Faire, which is a big part
	   of his success.  Roll it out and see what happens.
	-  Keep it close - not an easy task - and if Billy Owens
	   doesn't beat you, it's a sure thing Jimmy B. won't, either.

Interestingly, Dick Tarrant (Richmond) was this writer's #2 BEST coach.

	-  Syracuse had better blow out Richmond...because if you
	   let Tarrant stay in a game, the odds are he will find a
	   way to beat you.
	-  Tarrant never has great talent but his teams are tough-
	   minded and believe he'll find a way to pull out a close
	   game.

His BEST:	Knight
		Tarrant
		Carril (Princeton)
		"K" (Duke)
		Smith (NC)
		Massimino (Vill)
		Penders (Tx)
		Richardson (Ark)
		Carlesimo (SH)		honorable mention
		Gillen (Xavier)		    "
		Roy Williams (Kan)	    "
		Eddie Fogler (Vandy)	    "
		Rick Majerus (Utah)	    "

His WORST:	Boeheim
		Bill Frieder (Ari St)
		Cremins (Geo Tech)
		Chaney (Temple)
		Harrick (UCLA)
		Turk (So Miss)
		Brown (LSU)
		Heathcote (Mich St)
		Keady (Purdue)		dishonorable mention
		JT (G'town)			"
		Evans (Pitt)			"

He says Tarkanian makes both lists:  "He will not make a single
adjustment during a game throughout the tournament.  Which, in
this case, may make him the best coach of all."


On the court, Syracuse didn't play with any fire.  They made numerous
careless turnovers, and some very brainless fouls (especially down
the stretch).  Their defense didn't show up.  Billy had a bad shooting
night, and they didn't set anything up for him either.  Johnson didn't
score.  Questionable shot selection...especially Edwards with those
running jumpshots in traffic.  It was amazing that they even had a
shot to take the lead with only one minute to play.


This program finds itself teetering on the edge now.  Boeheim's
obvious deficiencies have hit new lows, which should cause big-time
HS players to think twice about playing for him.  If you were a
kid's HS coach would you recommend that he play for this BUFFOON ?

If they have committed serious violations and do get put on probation,
the core of this team could disappear, and top new recruits could be
2 years away.  Owens certainly will leave.  Johnson should transfer
(will McRae go too ?), and they could lose the best of their current
recruits.  Probation will likely have some recruiting restrictions
(ie: coaches' visiting recruits; recruits coming to SU), and they
may get axed from TV, exposure they heavily rely on.

The one good thing that could come out of this is that they could
fire him.  As The National points out, it can't get any worse.


Joe

Adrian Autry was a mild disappointment this year.  Many times he committed
stupid (eg: reach-in) fouls and his passes were not always on time, to the
right person, and quite often in traffic.  Too many people have sung his
praises for me to believe he's not what they say he is.  I think Boeheim's
playing him at the #2 guard has hurt his development as a ballhandler at
this level.  The kid loves to have the ball.  He drives, he dishes with
the best of them.

Edwards does not make anything happen (for others) from the point.  He's
not a penetrator, and is only a streak shooter.  He's also a liability
on defense.  He's an adequate backup at this level.

Autry would be my starting point guard next year.

Great first half effort by UConn!  I say first half because those
of us in the Boston area were treated to CBS's bonehead decision
to leave the UConn game after about 2 minutes into the second half,
and they didn't return until the closing seconds.  Geez, thanks 
a lot CBS.  Hell, I don't care if it was a blowout.  I'm a New
Englander and I wanted to see UConn.  Instead, the braintrust at
CBS thought I would be more interested in the USC-Florida State
game and then the BYU-Virginia game.  Here's UConn upsetting the
Shack-led Tigers, and some twit at command control in NYC decides
that people in Boston would rather watch BYU blow out Virginia.

CBS's coverage yesterday was a joke.  They're light years behind
the job ESPN used to do with this tournament.  I thought I would
never have to listen to Dick Stockton again after CBS lost the
NBA contract to NBC.  Grrrrrrrrrr.

Laker_Ken

 JoSh, it was just like last weekend the chant started about 10:00 or so
 on Glezen st and was a loud roar by midnight:

	LET'S GO SU...SU GO HOME!!!!!!

 hahahaha Hey Jimmy try the half court trap again will ya...what a boob..
 I feel sorry for Owens and Johnson who played their hearts out this
 year and carried the team. The rest of them nanannana hey hey hey 
 good bye...

 I mean we qualified 7 teams we can't get all 7 to Indiana so you got 
 loose a few a long the way and if you got loose one in the first round
 it might as well be SU. Maybe just maybe they'll fire the boob. Actually
 he was just too quiet for his whinny ass self the end of the year. I think
 they're going to let him retire with his pockets stuffed and the BLAM(tm)
 for the bad grades etc...

 Joe, head up maybe Billy will return now that his team has accomplished
 so little.

 Nice game by UConn but rather expected it as LSU goes by ONeal and I knew
 UConn would throw 4 guys and all their fouls at him. Interesting note
 about Calhoun studing the tapes and finding no zone ever played against
 LSU. Dale Brown a definate Boehiem bro never adjusted.

 Go Pirates what a team!!!

 Pitt might have one more in than that's it. Evans is still the coach...

 GO NOVA, HOYAS and REDMEN!!!!!

 mike

    
    Congrats to UConn for a BIG win!  Didn't see much of the game - was
    Shaquille a major factor?  I thought his timing might be off a little
    with the layoff.
    
    Having seen the list of best and worst coaches, I'm surprised Jim
    Calhoun wasn't on the "best" list.  He's done a super job at both
    Northeastern and UConn.
    
    As for my alma mater, SorryExcuse(tm) was about the best way to
    describe them.  As mentioned in an earlier note, the silver lining
    to all of this is that it might provide the impetus to rid the 
    program of Boeheim.
    
    As much as I love Syracuse basketball, I would have been sorry to
    see them advance after last night's performance.  Richmond outhustled,
    outsmarted, and flat-out outplayed them.  I would have appreciated it
    even more if I didn't have to listen to Verne Lundquist - as a
    basketball announcer, he's a fine football announcer.
    
    (witness steam coming out of ears)
    Every time I watch CBS do basketball I'm disgusted.  I thought the
    ouster of Brent Musburger would alleviate this, but instead we're
    treated to an endless parade of losers and Brent-wannabes like
    Dick Stockton.  I read in this morning's USA Today how CBS officials
    were saying how pleased they were with their amazing technical
    achievement - ESPN did it better, with less obnoxious fanfare, and
    had a much better feel for when to switch games.  I wish anti-trust
    laws applied to having a monopoly on televising the NCAA tournament
    so we could go back to ESPN doing at least some of it.
    
    And the "four games at once" grids is perhaps the stupidest thing
    I've ever seen.  The boxes are too damn small to pay attention to
    any live action going on in them.  Grrrrrrrrrrr...
    (steam subsides)
    
    Time for me to throw my psychic energy behind all of the other Big
    East NCAA contenders except Georgetown.  I'd especially like to
    see Seton Hall do well.
    
    						Roland
    

    	Those "four games at once" caused gridlock on my TV.

 >>>   <<< Note 28.357 by AXIS::ROBICHAUD "DrivingTheSkinBusThroughTunaTown" >>>
    					   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAAHAAHAHHAHAHAAHA
    
    RE: Mike Childs
    
    You forgot...GO PIRATES
    
    JoJ

    Final score in the Midwest:
    
    SJU  75
    NIU  68
    
    SJU was up at the half by 16, 41-25.
    
    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  REDMEN.
    
    Redmen Phil
                                       

    
    Joe, of all the points in your worst case scenario, Beoheim staying is 
    the only thing SU couldn't recover from.
    
    Just out of curiosity, what are the media saying in Syracuse?  Has 
    Beoheim made any comments about the last couple of games?  Have the 
    players said anything?  I don't get in any insight out here, just the
    usual AP/UPI game summaries...
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    Awrright Redmen!!!!
    
    Perphaps losing to Richmond wasn't as big an upset as people think. 
    The only reason Richmond (and Xavier, for that matter) were seeded low
    was because the NCAA selection committee doesn't consider than big name
    enough to get a better seed.
    
    However, the Orangemen went out of the season down, losing in the first
    round of hte BET, and in the NCAA.
    
    Boeheim should go.
    
    JD

    Joe, don't take this too personally but....
    
    Didn't somebody mention that Jim Baywhine was named BE Coach-of- the
    Year?
    
    Shure showed lasted night.....
    
    Kev
    

    PJ should have won BE CotY. 
    
    Well, we still have SHU, SJU, 'nova, UConn, G'town, and Pitt. 
    
    How many big ten teams have taken their traditional early exit? (I wish
    Hoot was still around to reply to that question...)
    
    JoJ

    When I attended the Knicks Hawks game at the Garden while in New York a
    few weeks back, it looks like I had a brush with a "celeb" in addition
    to M.C. Hammer.
    
    There was this real tall kid, obviously a basketball player, sitting a
    few seats over from me.  I knew I had seen him before, but for the life
    of me couldn't remember who he was, where I had seen him, or whom he
    played for.  It's been bothering me since.
    
    I got my answer today while watching the 'Nova UNC game.  The kid was
    Greg Woodard, Villanova's starting guard.  
    
    Now why would he be at the Garden by himself?  When did the cats play
    St. John's at the Garden?  Was he there to scout the Syracuse St. John's 
    game the following day?
    
    	--dan'l

    Way to go Redmen.....(and congrats also to SHU and UConn; to Nova and
    Gtown also for game efforts vs. NC & UNLV).
    
    I really think the Redmen can beat OSU if they continue to get
    balanced scoring (what's going on with Singleton and Sproling??).
    
    Redmen Phil
    
    

 Unfortunately, as penance for my weekend at the BET, I had to take yesterday
 off and visit with friends who have no interest in sports. Had a great time
 except for that smile from the misses every so often that said "No I don't
 know how Georgetown, SJU or Nova are doing and neither do you"... ;^)

 Anyways I've got the tapes and I'll see them soon. Early it looked like
 Nova was going to make a game of it but Dean smartly sat down and let
 the kids play instead of coaching. Also Montross realized that everyone out
 there was smaller than him and played big for a change of pace in the action
 I saw.

 My Hoyas made a game of it anyways and showed the rest of the field that
 yes you can slow them. This one was like a knife in the heart cause I got
 home and turn on the tube and it was 50-56 and Harrison just missed a
 trey with a minute and half to go...

 SJU making Jimmy V and the conference look good with their impressive win
 over Texas. Can't wait to see this one. Phil they do match up well with
 OSU. Sealy should be quick enough to make JJ work hard as well Werdann
 being dare I say this one of the most physical players that Carter has had
 to deal with this year. Plus he'll have a height advantage.

 UConn keeps the Big East tradition of winning ugly alive. Burell maybe
 giving up baseball soon. He sure must have opened some eyes this weekend.
 Laettner is great but doesn't like the physical stuff that they can lay
 on him. I like the revenge factor too.

 Seton Hall the new beast of the Big East has the tools to take out Zona.
 Should be a great game. If Dehere stays hot, Zona's going home early again.

 and where oh where is Syracuse? what a disgrace...

 :^)

mike

    Mike, if the Hoyas had a real outside threat they would have beaten
    UNLV. Just goes to show ya that UNLV can be beaten.
    
    They are truly a media hype monster. Just watch the Hall knock off
    Arizona and UNLV. 
    
    JoSH

Although the BIG EAST has done very well to-date with 3 sweet-sixteen 
entries, I afraid the party will soon be over.  The BIG EAST is the
underdog in all three games.  Duke has been playing exteremely well
the last few weeks (with the exception of the ACC final) and should be
able to handle UConn without too much trouble.  Seton Hall has been very
impressive and its too bad they were put in the West.  I think the Hall
could have reached the final four in any other region.  Consecutive victories
over Arizona and UNLV is a bit much to hope for.  St. Johns probaby has
the best shot to advance to the final eight and maybe the final four.

North Carolina has it made in the east and hasn't/won't have a tough
opponent (sorry Villanova) until the regional finals and I'm not
convinced that Okla St. will give them much trouble either.


Good luck to the Big East teams.

>    Joe, don't take this too personally but....
    
>    Didn't somebody mention that Jim Baywhine was named BE Coach-of- the
>    Year?


I couldn't possibly take that personally, since I'm one of Boeheim's
biggest critics.

But, if you look at the regular season, who else would the coaches
pick for Big East Coach of the Year ?  Sorry Jim, but PJ's club
started playing well at the end of the season (yes, when it counts
most!).  Their 9-7 regular season doesn't warrant giving him the honor.

Syracuse (pre-season #4) played better than most people expected,
and while I don't give Boeheim much of the credit (let's talk about
Billy O and David Johnson), he's the coach (ie: the man in the right
place at the right time), so he gets the honor.

They could have picked the most deserving one Louie...

mike

    You don't win a conference championship without doing something right. 
    Remember that there are a lot of behind-the-scenes things that a coach
    must deal with...the most important being keeping a team unified.  
    
    Those of you who have competed in college athletics will know, one of
    the toughest items on the agenda is learning to cope with your
    teammates day in and day out (and Daaaay-ooooooh, come mistah tally
    mon, tally me banana...sorry, don't know what got into me there).
    
    Anyway, it's the coach's job to make that team a well-running machine
    at all times.  He can expect a little help from his assistants and the
    team captain, but essentially the job rests on his shoulders.  Not easy
    when your dealing with a bunch of 17-21 year olds who don't go home to
    mom and dad every night for disciplining.  Any mistep in team unity can
    cost you a title.
    
    Boeheim coached them to the title, bottom line.  A prime example of the
    opposite is Dean Smith who coached his team right out of one.
    
    Jim B deserved it, if for nothing else, taking a group of young men
    and assisting them in delivering when everyone else had them marked in
    the middle of the pack.  That will get you the vote every time.
    
    	--dan'l

    I wouldn't write UCONN off so fast.  Both coaches have 5 full days to
    concentrate on each other.   On paper UCONN is at a disadvantage
    but on paper mean squat in my book.  UCONN's 'D' can fluster any
    team and run away with the game.  Their problem has been they can't
    shoot.  If they can hit the jumper from the perimeter UCONN will 
    beat Duke, if they can't they will keep it close but lose.  Last
    year this was one of the best games in the whole tournament and
    I'm hoping for the same excitemenet.
    
    On another note Congrat's to UCONN, Arkansas, and Oklahoma St whose
    mens and womens teams advanced to the "sweet sixteen".
    
    Jimbo

Jimbo,
    Your probaby right and I should give UCONN more credit.  They certainly
gave DUKE all they could handle last year and were a fumbled steal and
Laettner's jumper away from the final four.  They just win ugly and their
poor outside shooting makes them very vulnerable.  I don't think UCONN's
D is as good as last year and therefore they can no longer beat a quality
opponent when their shooting is off.   With all this said, I will be
rooting, screaming for UCONN and BLAMing the refs for any call against UCONN
from the opening tap.

                                                        Alan


I can tell I've had BIG EAST glasses on from the beginning since I feel the
calls have gone against all BIG EAST teams.  I really thought Syracuse
got the short end of the stick in there game.  Then I thought St. Johns
received the same treatment against TEXAS and certainly Georgetown got
screwed against UNLV.  When I thought Seton Hall had some tough calls going
against them I realized it must be me.

    >UCONN's 'D' can fluster any
    >team and run away with the game.  Their problem has been they can't
    >shoot.  If they can hit the jumper from the perimeter UCONN will 
    >beat Duke...
    
    You can rewrite the above paragraph for virtually any Big East team. 
    WHen they don't have to play in conference, suddenly their D looks
    twice as good, and they have room to hit their jumpers.
    
    Dan

>I really thought Syracuse
>got the short end of the stick in there game.
    
    Syracuse, like most prohibitive favorite save Indiana, got abused.  But
    they should have won despite that.  Shot selection and expert
    opposition coaching did them in.
    
    Dan

>                          -< No D like the Big East >-

A strong case can be made for the above.  During the regular season you
see Big East scores in the 50s, 60s and 70s, but you almost always see
ACC scores in the 80s and 90s.  The Big 10 seems to go both ways, leaning
more toward the high-end.

It can't be that the Big East kids just can't score.



Joe

From today's NBA column (Peter Vecsey) in USA Today:

	"In anticipation of being declared apathetically ineligible,
	 Orangemen coach Jim Boeheim has let his pro friends know
	 he's interested in an assistant's job."

Vecsey is arrogant and sarcastic, and sometimes you don't know when
he's giving you information, opinion or bullshit.  But if the above
is information, there are brighter days ahead for the Syracuse
basketball program (enter sad face for Mike Childs).


Joe

Actually Joe enter a smiley face for me. To never have to see his whinny
face on the sideline again would be a pleasure not to be overlooked by
my avowed hatred of SU. Also if the talent level doesn't drop at SU and
the coaching level goes up we can look forward to all the dollars that
they'll win by advancing further than round 1 more than not. Also there
should be a SPILLOVER as kids go to other Big East schools in an attemp
to knock those dam orangemen down a peg or two...

no I think it's a good thing, I only hope JT follows suit...

mike

    Mike, rumor has it that Boeheim is going to be hired by the Celtics as
    assistant coach, and groomed to be Ford's successor.
    
    Dan

If that's the case then somebody better call my wife and tell her to hide
the razorblades and ropes....

>Also if the talent level doesn't drop at SU and
>the coaching level goes up we can look forward to all the dollars that
>they'll win by advancing further than round 1 more than not.

Until this year, even Jimmy has gotten by round 1 (last time was '78,
I think)...I mean, his talent has gotten by round 1.

I read that they instituted the new revenue sharing package this year,
which is based mostly on previous years performance.  So SU and the BE
don't get hurt by SU's early exit this year.  They will though in the
future, as this choke becomes part of the base for the following years.


>no I think it's a good thing, I only hope JT follows suit...

Well, there's still those NY Knicks rumors!


We can only hope, right ?  Can you imagine a Big East without JT and
Bum-heimer ?  It'll be too good to be true.


BTW, if Boeheim gets axed, look for them to name the assistant (Morgan)
as new head coach.  I'd like a high-profile guy (ala Pitino) to really
turn things around (especially if they go on probation), but Morgan is
the lead recruiter (ie: close to the players), knows the university,
and he's black.  With all of the heat on the NCAA to increase minority
positions at the upper levels, this would be a great opportunity for
Syracuse to lead the way (and make points with the NCAA).


Joe

    I fergot who said it but....
    
    "Baywine as a assistant coach of the C's as a replacement for Ford"..
    
    
    GAHSP!!!! CHOKE....PUKE.....OMYGOD.....NOOOOOOO
    
    <set both knees firmly on ground, point clasped fingers upward>
    
    
    please no, never ok?
    
    
    Kev_gotta_clean_up_upchuck_now_cause_of_the_mere_thought
    

    
    Joe,
    
    You don't think they would give the job to Bernie Fine?  If not, I
    can't see him sticking around forever...
    
    - Ken -

>    You don't think they would give the job to Bernie Fine?

I hope not.  I'm sure Bernie Fine is a nice guy, but before he came
to Syracuse he was a HS coach in Syracuse (Henniger, I think).
I don't believe he's the main recruiter.  I tend to see Fine as
a Boeheim "pal".

Maybe Morgan is the same thing...who knows.

If you want guys with experience, Vitale was mentioning some bright
young coaches on the rise and Mike Jarvis' name came up.

Let's just get rid of The Bummer first.

    For selfish reasons, I hope they hire Jarvis instead of John Calipari. 
    I know UMass is going to lose Calipari someday, I just hope it's not
    for a couple of years, until things really get established in Amherst.
    
    John

Hey John, congratulations on UMass' big win AT Fordham last night.
My father-in-law is surely bumming today.

 They ought to get Tony Bobonie from Creighton. Carlisimo, Carnesseca,
 Massimino you need and I-tralian coach in this league. That way you 
 can go for spaggetti and vino with the boys and steal their secrets...

 ;^)

 mike

 imagine if JT goes to Vegas? A few certain noters distaste for Vegas would
 be squared...hahaaa

    Please - it's Tony Barone.
    
    NAZZ

What ridicule? thanks for the correction NAZZ, if there's one thing you
ought know about me by know is besides being a lousy typist, I don't 
spell too good...

;^)

mike

    The common denominator for exceptional basketball judgement and
    coaching is NOT nationality!  Everyone knows it's whether you come from
    New Jersey/New York or not.
    
    Dan

    CONGRATS PIRATES!!!!!!
    
    BIG EAST ROOLES!!!!
    
    SETON HALL WINS Arizona looses!!!
    
    Kev
    

    
    	So how many did Dehere(sp) have?
    
    B.A.

Terry baby has 29 bigones to lead the way for the Pirates!!!!

mike

    Wasn't UNLV's last tournament loss to Seton Hall?
    
    I think so...that's it, I'm convinced, the PIRATES are a lock to go to
    the final four....
    
    JOSH/J/D/BE/*

    I'll tell the whole story over in the Seton Hall note - but this was 
    aGREAT game to be at!!!!  Not many Pirate fans, though I had the
    pleasure of sitting right next to their film crew, and a couple of Hall
    fans, surrounded by UNLV and Arizona fans.  Great fun.
    
    Dehere had 28 points, and generally wowed the crowds.
    
    Yehaaa
    
    JD

>    Wasn't UNLV's last tournament loss to Seton Hall?
  
    Yes, 2 years ago in Denver.  The Hall blew out UNLV in the West
    Regional final.
      
 

    The Hall was lucky ;-)

Hey Joe (BSS::JCOTANCH),

Aren't you the guy that lives in Rochester, NY ?  If so, what are you
hearing/reading re: the SU investigation ?  Is the school nearing the
end of its investigation ?  Any word on what the NCAA has found during
its informal inquiries (ie: are they moving toward a formal investiga-
tion ?) ?  Is it being reported that Boeheim is leaving ?

Also, I read that SU is intensely recruiting a Junior from the Rochester
area.  He's a 7-footer.  Any word on his leanings ?


Joe

Luke Jackson (TX):	- 20 ppg;  8 rbs;  4 assts;  2 blks;  2 steals
6'6" F/G		- 59% FGs;  40% 3-pt;  80% FTs
			- well-rounded, playing all 5 positions
			- "unselfish player" - his coach

Lazarus Sims (Syr,NY):	- 16 ppg;  9 rbs;  7 assts;  3 steals
6'4" P/2G		- excells in defense;  excellent leader on the floor
			- "doesn't get a charge out of scoring...sometimes
			   he's too unselfish" - his coach

Glenn Sekunda (NJ):	- 33 ppg;  12 rbs;  4 assts
6'8" F/G		- 45% 3-pt;  84% FTs
			- one of the nation's top shooters
			- "he faces a lot of special defenses and he's still
			   been able to do the job" - his coach

Anthony Harris (CT):	- 28 ppg;  8 rbs;  5 assts;  4 steals
6'2" P/2G		- 40% 3-pt;
			- "he's done very well offensively, but needs to
			   raise his concentration level on defense" - his coach

Lawrence Moten (NH-DC): - 26 ppg;  4 rbs;  4 steals
6'4" F/G		- starred on football team as WR/DB
			- "he's the heart and soul of our club...I've been
			   in the business for 20 yrs and he's the best
			   pure athlete I've come in contact with" - his AD

    Joe, I heard that the university's findings will be completed in May.

> Aren't you the guy that lives in Rochester, NY ?  
  
    No, Joe, that's not me.  I'm originally from Syracuse and still have
    family there, so that's why I follow SU.  Acutally, I appreciate the 
    news you and Burgess provide about the basketball team, because we don't
    get any coverage of Big East teams out here in Colorado Springs.
    
    Joe

>    Joe, I heard that the university's findings will be completed in May.

Well Ken, say bye-bye Billy.  If you were him, wouldn't you have to
choose the NBA draft, given the uncertainty of the findings ?  Unless
he really wants to get another shot at the Final Four, and will even
consider transfering if SU gets put on probation.

I'm sure we won't see Donyell Marshall (PA) at Syracuse either.


Joe

    
    Keep on Stompin', Big East!!  
    
    If UConn and St. John's win, we'll have a guaranteed Final Four player,
    but the best thing in the world will be to see Seton Hall crush UNLV
    (plus I made a bet at the beginning of the tourney that UNLV wouldn't reach
    Final 4 - I make lotsa dumb bets)!
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS - really bummed about P.C.'s performance in the NIT
    
    P.S. Joe G. - I thought you lived in Syracuse?

    GOOD LUCK LOUIEEEEE AND THE REDMEN!!!!!
    
    same to the Huskies too!
    
    Kev
    

>    P.S. Joe G. - I thought you lived in Syracuse?

I used to live in Syracuse when I attended LeMoyne College ('75-79).
Now I live in Marlboro, MA.


Joe

  SJU SJU SJU !!!!!! Way to go. Knew they matched well with OSU. Duke's
 deeper and has better tied with officials but it is only the wimp ACC
 so hopfully the Big East physical training SJU has faced will carry them
 to INDIANA!!!!!!!!!!!

 Go Pirates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PJ's real confident. Feels if he can keep his
 boys close till the last four minutes they can win it. Confident in their
 excution.

 great comment by PJ, he was asked by some dumb writer "Will it take a
 perfect game to win?"

 PJ: "For who Vegas?" 

 As Avent said "We're ready, UNLV would not go undfeated in the Big East"...

 mike

    The Redmen did it; they beat OSU handily last night, 91-74.  
    Now its on to Duke tomorrow.
    
    Good luck SJU (and SHU, too).
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    There's something to be said for the only BIG EAST team still playing
    hoops this year.
    
    Good luck Redmen, vs. the Duke Blue Devils.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

    Oh well.....
    
    JoJ

    Actually there still is one Big East team playing hoops; UConn's
    women's team has made it to the Final Four.
    
    
    py

For you SU fans (if there are any still out there):

	Jalen Rose (Detroit, MI), 6'9" (all-everything) F, verbally
	committed to Michigan over the weekend.  Last summer he was
	talking SU, but was leaning toward Mich and Mich St. over
	the winter.

Michigan had a big weekend, also grabbing Chris Webber (6'10"), who
may be the best HS big man in the country.

    Yeah, I think Michigan signed Webber's HS coach as an assistant.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

Syracuse has stepped up efforts to sign a 7'2" center out of Ohio
(I think the school is Lakota).  I have the name at home, but I know
that he was not a pre-season top 200.  He apparently has had a good
senior year.  His HS was in the USA Today top 25 this season.

He hasn't filled out yet, but reportedly has a good shooting touch.

Sounds like another project.  Let's hope he's not another Eric Rogers.

    Here's what the Redmen will look like next year:
    
    PG: 6'1" Sr. Jason Buchanan (had a fine year this year; can also play a 
    		 little 2G).
        6'3" So. Lee Green (prop 48'er this year who is a tenacious
    		 defensive player; can also play a little 2G; offense a
    		 question mark?).
        6"   Jr. David Cain (tends to play a little out of control, but
    		 had his moments this year). 
    
    2G: 6'6" Sr. Chuck Sproling (he too had his moments towards the end of
    		 this season; is his outside shot coming back? Let's hope
    		 so; a very good defensive player; can't wait to see him 
    		 and Green playing D in the backcourt together next year).
        6'1" Sr. Terrence Mullin (a fine practice player; will one day be
    		 a coach; can also play a little PG).
    	6'3" Fr. Derek Brown (too early to tell; great scorer from LI who
    		 always wanted to play for SJU; HS competition a question).
    	6'3" So. Ron DeQueiroz (a non-player; not sure if he's on
    		 scholarship).
    
    BF: 6'7" Jr. Lamont Middleton (transfer from Hartford who dominated his
    		 conference for two years; should step right in and replace
    		 Billy Singleton).
        6'10"So. Shawnelle Scott (will see lots of time at BF and backup
    		 C; this kids a comer!).
    
    C:  6'11"Sr. Rob Werdann (let's hope his end of season play is what we
    		 can expect next seson; still needs to bulk up, especially 
    		 his top and legs; a big season is expected).
    
    SF: 6'8" Sr. Malik Sealy (nothing to say here; if he has a better year
    		 than this year, it will be a great one; needs to refine the 
    		 skills he improved last summer; an All-American).
        6'8" So. Sergio Lyuk (I love this guy; he can shoot and needs to
    		 get more PT; excellent knowledge of the game; can play
    		 some 2G also).
        6'4" So. Carl Beckett (will probably always be a backup player, but
    		 he can shoot the 3 and play good D; can play some 2G
    		 also).
    
    On the recruiting front, the Redmen are sill going after the following,
    concentrating on big bodies and shooters:
    
    6'10"  C Wifred Kirkaldy (Phil., via NYC)
    7' 0"  C William Davis (NYC)
    7' 1"  C Ricky Lopes (Juco in Vt.)
    
    6' 8" BF Dan Buie (Pa.)
    6' 7" BF Floyd Miller (NYC)
    6' 8" BF Mitchell Foster (Juco in Az.)
    
    6' 5" 2G/SF Eric Coates (Juco in Ks./ex-LI star)
    6' 4" 2G James Scott (NJ)
    6' 2" 2G Steve Frazier (NYC-a prolific shooter and scorer)
     
    6' 1" PG Dean Marshman (NY)
    
    Redmen Phil
     

>    SF: 6'8" Sr. Malik Sealy

With all of the talk about the # of Jrs that will enter the NBA draft,
is there any chance Sealy will ?

Two interesting things came out of the NCAAs rulings on the Minnesota
investigation:

	1- They limited the penalties because the university took
	   corrective action on its own

	2- It took 2 yrs to complete

This should give SU fans some optimism.  The school is obviously
way ahead of the NCAA with its own internal investigation, and
has already acted on a couple of fronts (ousting the booster club
president, suspending the players before the ND game).  Having the
benefit of seeing what has happened to Minnesota (ie: the NCAA may
have established a precedent), I would expect Syracuse to be even
more aggressive in its internal corrective actions, which makes
Boeheim's firing/resignation even more likely.

If there is going to be a long NCAA investigation the impact on
this year's recruiting class should be minimal, if anything.
And Boeheim's leaving may help pull in the BF they need to complete
their roster (Donyell Marshall ?).

    Thanks Phil, it certainly looks like there's pretty good balance at all
    positions and the height seems to be there.  I like the age spreads
    too.  Do you think LOUIEEEE will have a hard time jelling the team?
    
    Kev
    

    Joe, all indications are that Sealy will be back.  He's an excellent
    student (he wants to get his degree in 4 years; note the recent SJU
    graduation figures, this is important to SJU).  The talk of leaving
    early came up once a month during the season, but each time, Sealy
    indicated not.  Let's hope so.  And, his game still has some
    shortcomings anyway, albeit, not too many.
    
    Kev, although I am not a big Louie fan, I look for a real good season
    next year.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

 Hopefully he'll be back I truly enjoy watching him play. Joe's praying
 he leaves cause SU needs all the help they can get. Billy leaves, Baywhine
 gets can, Davey transfers it's going to be a long year for SU next year..

 ;^)

Truthfully Phil, do you really think Terrence M. would make the team if
it weren't for his brother Chris?  I don't.....

mike

    
    Re:  -1
    
    Davey's not going anywhere!!!
    
    

 With the way Davey blossomed this year if the team gets put on serious
 probation with no post season play then I believe Davey can transfer
 without loosing a year. Do you think he'll stay around when slicksters
 like Olsen come banging on his door telling him he's the missing piece
 to their puzzle and if he come out west then we can win the championship.

 "think of the extra NBA bucks that will bring ya"-- lute

 don't be so sure Ken, isn't it?

 mike

> Hopefully he'll be back I truly enjoy watching him play. Joe's praying
> he leaves cause SU needs all the help they can get. Billy leaves, Baywhine
> gets can, Davey transfers it's going to be a long year for SU next year..

Mike, you make it sound like Bum-heimer getting canned is going to have
a negative impact on the program.  You don't really believe that.  It's
going to be a huge POSITIVE step toward total SU dominance in the Big
East.  They've won or shared more regular season titles, and been to
more tourney title games than any other BE school...and that was with
this jerk on the sidelines.  What's it going to be like with a GOOD
COACH ????


Also, if SU gets put on probation for next season I truly will not care
what Malik Sealy or the rest of the BE does.  Most likely Owens is gone
anyway (no decision, by SU or the NCAA will be made by the NBA draft
declaration deadline), and Johnson WOULD be eligible to transfer without
having to sit out a year (he'd be crazy not to).  That would mean that
SU's entire starting frontcourt from this year would be gone.  Add to
that the almost certain defections of this year's talented recruits
(most of which are guards and small forwards), and Syracuse will be at
the bottom of the BE standings...maybe looking up at BC.

The only thing that could change this would be the hiring of a dynamic
coach (like a Pitino) who could convince the kids to stay and play thru
the probation, with an eye toward good things in the future.  What Pitino
did should become a model for any big-time b-ball pgm that faces probation.

 Joe, when Jimmy leaves of course it will be bad for the program. Hell he
 gets all these superstud stars because:

	a.  his buddies suplies cars and and jobs..

	b.  because they don't have to worry about grades...

	c.  because he just rools the ball out there and let's
	    the inmates run the asylum...

	d.  because they're always on TV...


 I think once these perks disappear they'll have trouble for a bit...

 mike

> Joe, when Jimmy leaves of course it will be bad for the program. Hell he
> gets all these superstud stars because:
>	a.  his buddies suplies cars and and jobs..
>	b.  because they don't have to worry about grades...
>	c.  because he just rools the ball out there and let's
>	    the inmates run the asylum...
>	d.  because they're always on TV...


Mike,  the only one of the above that I'll grant you is "C"...he does
let them play, and that gives a kid a chance to showcase his talents,
as opposed to being straight-jacketed by some "system".

The rest of that is just hogwash, IMO.  I didn't see anything in the
newspaper rpt that said that players were being given cars and jobs,
or that they didn't have to worry about grades.  In fact, in a report
this week, SU does a good job in graduating athletes, when compared
to the non-athletes.  Now if you want to talk about grades, let's
speculate about how Alonzo Mourning is doing it at a school known
for very high academic stds.

As for the TV part, that will always be there, whether Boeheim is
there or not.  It comes with The Dome, and being in the Big East...
and let's not forget that SU is a big TV draw.

They'll still get good talent.

Joe, let's see Jimmy's bestest friend who gets to sit on the bench at games
just happens to own a car dealership, how convient. 

Didn't they suspend the boys before the ND game over bad grades???

I'm the one who introduced the stuff on Mourning's less than specatacular
grades...

What if they receive a suspension which includes no TV games and post season
games like Kentucky just went through?

Didn't they just loose out on OBannon and Taver last year? 

You only give me C cause it's the only one you can accept....

mike

>Joe, let's see Jimmy's bestest friend who gets to sit on the bench at games
>just happens to own a car dealership, how convient. 

I've never heard this one before.  Sits on the bench ???


>Didn't they suspend the boys before the ND game over bad grades???

I never heard what the kids were suspended for, but the Syracuse radio
team said that it was *supposedly* very insignificant...obviously the NCAA
thought so too.


>What if they receive a suspension which includes no TV games and post season
>games like Kentucky just went through?

This would be the biggest blow to the pgm.  But it has nothing to do with
whether Boeheim is there or not.  And again, if they get the above and
he stays, it's my opinion that it will take them longer to "reload" than
if he leaves and they bring in a new coach.  Hell, if what you allude to
is true, how will Boeheim ever be able to recruit the good players without
the "extra" stuff ?  No, bring in a new guy, with a good rep, and the
recruiting won't miss a beat.


Mike, it's obviously your opinion that the SU program has had success in
the past because of some *alleged* violations, and not because they have
produced on the court.  It appears that you believe that without cheating,
SU won't be the same.  It's my opinion that the Syracuse program is THE draw.
It's become one of the elite pgms in college basketball.  They may suffer
a one-yr set-back, but like Kansas and Kentucky, they'll clean up their
act and be near the top again.

Syracuse basketball is what it is because of the support it receives from
the university, fans and media.  Not because Jim Boeheim cheated.

>                        -< Thompson to Vegas PLEASE!!! >-

What will G'town's recruiting situation be like without "daddy John"
to pull in the Ewings and Mournings ?  Don't underestimate his powerful
appeal to these young black athletes.

Thompson is more valuable to G'town's pgm than Boeheim is to SU's.

    Joe, Bill Rapp, local car dealer and big SU hoops booster, is the one
    who used to sit on the bench at games and has been banned.  He's the
    one who was/is rumored to have been providing the basketball players
    with their cars.
    
    John

 Thanks John for the help. My source for the car dealer was The National.
 The stuff about the grades I heard on ESPN when the story first broke.

 Joe, while I agree that there is tremendous support for the team by the
 fans and the school, I think rebuilding might be tricky. SU has the DOme
 and the Big East affilation to fall back on so all isn't lost. They'll
 probably spend mucho buckos on a new "name" coach so they won't slip as
 much as I like. It's just that there are so many other programs now in
 better locations with equal coverage on TV that loosing the perks will 
 hurt.

 Sure JT is one excellent recruiter but as a coach he's right there with Jimmy
 and Dean for wasting talent. It's obvious that the program at Georgetown is
 stuck in a mode of always being very good but not able to acheive greatness.
 I think JT is the reason why so I'd like a change. I'd suffer through a few
 down years...

 mike

I never knew Bill Rapp sat on the bench.  And from what I've read,
it's ALLEGED that he has provided low interest (ie: 0%) car loans
to players FAMILIES.  I don't believe I've read that he's actually
given (ie: free, at no cost) cars to student athletes.  Ken, you
read the Post Standard article, am I out in left field here ?

Also, as for the grades, it has been alleged that ONE PLAYER had
ONE GRADE fixed, so that he could remain eligible (I consider this
the most serious accusation).  But you can't claim that the team
in general, "doesn't have to worry about grades"...or that this is
a perk.

Mike, I'm not convinced that the univ. will replace Bum-heimer
(if he's fired or resigns) with a "name" coach.  They didn't
do it in football.

 Joe, while grade fixing or special tutoring may not be a perk, it sure helps
 the marginal student athlete to make up his mind if he's only going to school
 to play ball and get NBA exposure. You think this type of players is going
 to go to a school where he might actually get suspended from playing because
 of his grades or SU?

 mike

    
    
    Here's some stuff that was in the Post Standard article on Syracuse....
    
    
    
    Boeheim said he has heard rumors about players receiving benefits not
    allowed by the NCAA, but he never found a violation.  Neither did the
    NCAA, he said.  "The NCAA has looked at everything we've done.  They
    have talked to guys who have left here.  And nothing was ever said,"
    Boeheim said.  "We try to do everything we can to see that nothing
    happens.  Because it is the right way to do things, No. 1, and because,
    No. 2, I want to coach here 30 or 40 years."
    
    
    Erich Santifer said his connection to Dave Bing was forged beyond the
    record books.  He said that Bing gave him a total of $400 his freshman
    year.  Santifer said he did not receive any money his sophomore year,
    when he thought about transferring from SU.  The next season, he said,
    he was introduced to a booster who sent him monthly $100 money orders
    over 4 or 5 months.  Bing said he bought meals for Santifer, but did
    not give him cash.  "I'm sure I never did that," Bing said.
    
    
    Derrick Coleman said he wired about $500 to former teammate Billy Owens
    in November.  Coleman said Owens called him and he sent the money so
    Owens would have it to spend in Hawaii.  "Whatever he wanted to do with
    it, he could do with it," Coleman said.  "That's my man.  All the guys
    are good.  I'm sure if they call me and asked me for something, if I
    got it, you know, I'll send it to them."  Owens said he never received
    any money from Coleman.
    
    
    Another of the program's supporters is Bill Rapp, who players said
    tucked cash in Christmas cards he gave to them.  Players from every
    season since 1983 said they received cash in cards from Rapp, an auto
    dealer Boeheim calls his best friend in town.  Typically, players said,
    they found $50 inside the cards.  jPlayers who said they received
    Christmas cards containing cash included Rodney Walker and Michael
    Brown.  Six other players, some of whom could jeopardize their NCAA
    eligibility by publicly admitting they accepted cash, also said they
    received Christmas money from Rapp.  Papadakos said the Christmas cards
    were slipped through a vent into the secure compartment of each locker
    where players store their valuables in the Carrier Dome.  Other
    Orangemen who played during the past 10 years said they received cards
    from Rapp, but said the cards did not contain cash.  Billy Owens, for
    example, said the entire team got cards from Rapp in the locker room
    last season, but none of them contained cash.  Rapp said he never gave
    players money.  Boeheim said he spoke to Rapp about it.  "This came up
    three or four months ago.  And I said, 'You don't do that.  That is not
    legal.  Whether it is $5 or whatever it is, it is not legal,'"  Boeheim
    said.  "He told me it didn't happen.  As far as I know -- I take his
    word for it -- it didn't happen."  SU Athletics Director Jake
    Crouthamel, who is Rapp's neighbor, said the car dealer is aware of
    NCAA rules because of his friendship with Boeheim and his close
    association with the program.  Rapp is the team's official
    representative at the scorer's table at away games.  "The last person
    who is going to go out and undermine the program is someone who is that
    close," Crouthamel said.
    
    
    During his freshman year, Stephen Thompson played a man for $100 in a
    one-on-one game before practice at Manley Field House, according to
    Coleman, Walker, Keith Hughes and another player who spoke on the
    condition he not be identified.  Coleman said players were warming up
    for practice when a man challenged any one of the Orangemen to a game
    for $100.  "This guy kept screaming he could play basketball real good. 
    At first I wanted -- Everybody wanted -- to play him," said Coleman,
    "It was like $100.  I was, 'Yeah, yeah, I'll play you.' Coach, you
    know, I guess because the guy was Stevie's size or whatever, Stevie
    played.  We were all just sitting there watching."  What did Boeheim
    say when Thompson took the money?  "What can you say?  He didn't say
    anything," Coleman said.  "You know, we all was laughing and went on
    with practice."  Hughes, who transferred to Rutgers said he recalled
    the challenger walking up to Boeheim and saying he wanted to go 1 on 1
    with any player on the team.  "They thought it was funny.  I can recall
    Boeheim was laughing," Hughes said. "I was there.  I was a witness. 
    I'm not going to lie.  I have nothing to hide."  Boeheim and Bernie
    Fine recalled the game, but not the cash.  "Iremember they bet and I
    said, 'You can't bet money.' I said, 'Go ahead with this.' I was a
    little concerned because the challenger looked like he was on drugs or
    something," Boeheim said.  "There was no police there and I didn't want
    to like throw him out because I didn't know what would happen.  And so
    he said, 'We'll play.  Let me go one game and I'll leave.' And I said,
    'Play one game.'"  Boeheim said he watched the game but was distracted
    at times talking to people.  "I don't remember money changing hands,"
    he said. Thompson said this never happened.
    
    
    
    Rodney Walker said he arrived at school with no money.  he said Boeheim
    gave him $20 to buy school supplies and told him not to tell anyone. 
    "I asked him, did he want the change back?  And he was like, 'No just
    go ahead and keep it,'" Walker said. 
    
    
    Boeheim also loaned Tony Scott $20 to buy gas for his car so he could
    go home to Rochester.  Boeheim says he never gave any money to any
    players.
    
    
    
    "One time I got a D in my class," Walker said.  "I talked to the
    teacher and told her, you know, I needed a C, at least, so I'd be
    eligible to play.  I talked to her, and she was like, 'Well, you have
    to take this test over."  "I explained to the coaches what had
    happened, that I probably wouldn't be eligible to play."  Walker said
    his grade for that course, which was given in the fall 1986 semester
    left him ineligible.  He did not intend to dress for the Seton Hall
    game in the Carrier Dome Jan. 10, 1987.  "But Boeheim ended up cussing
    out the athletic director," Walker said.  "'He's going to play tonight,
    goddamn it, I'll make sure of that.  He's going to play,'"  Walker
    recalled Boeheim telling Crouthamel.  Walker said he was present during
    the conversation between Boeheim and Crouthamel in the coach's office. 
    Afterward, he talked to the instructor about retaking the test.  "She
    was like, 'Don't worry about it,'"  Walker said.  He said he got a C
    for the course even though he never retook the test.  Crouthamel said
    he did not believe any grade was changed.  The athletic director said
    Walker was ineligible until a few hours before the game, which was
    played between semesters, because the instructor had not reported the
    grade.  "Until the grade was posted, he was ineligible," Crouthamel
    said.  By game time, however, the athletic department knew what grade
    the instructor intended to put on Walker's records and detemined that
    Walker was eligible, Crouthamel said.  Boeheim said, "He could have
    been ineligible. But there was something about the time frame or
    something.  He was eligible.  No grade was changed that I know of."
    
    
    
    Walker said he once settled a debt to a local foreign car dealer by
    giving up his tickets to the 1986 NCAA East Regional game between Navy. 
    Walker said he had rented a car from the dealer.  "I was going to try
    to get the money back to the guy, but it was a matter of time," Walker
    said.  "So one day we was at practice.  Boeheim came out on the court
    and said he took care of everything, but I couldn't get no tickets for
    the NCAA."  Boeheim said he never arranged such a deal.  Walker
    admitted that he had also sold tournament tickets for $1,000.
    Also,Papadakos said he gave the booster his tickets to a SU game in trade
    for a pair of boots and shoes.
    
    
    
    Players said Rapp also supplied them and their families with rental
    cars at discounted rates.  Walker said he rented cars from Rapp on 6 or
    7 occasions.  Usually he paid $15 to drive a Pontiac Grand Am for a
    weekend, he said. "Rapp would say, 'You know, just call the place where
    you rent them out at.  Give them your name; they know who you are,'".
    The rental manager at Rapp's dealership said the Pontiac Grand Am
    usually goes for $29.95 a day.  Richard Manning said he would also rent
    cars from Rapp for 1/2 price.  Other players, such as Eric Rogers said
    he rented cars from Rapp, but never received any type of discount.
    In addition to players renting cars, Manning said Rapp's mechanics
    performed work on his car at reduced rates.  Current Orangemen David
    Johnson, Billy Owens, LeRon Ellis, and Mike Hopkins said they have had
    work done on their cars at Rapp's dealership but have always paid full
    price.  
    "They are nice kids and I love them all, but you can't do anything for
    them that you wouldn't do for anybody else at the university or anybody
    else," Rapp said.  
    After a story appeared in the Post-Standard five years ago detailing
    Rapp's frequent business dealings with players, the university told him
    he could no longer sit on SU's bench according to Crouthamel.  That
    change was not made because SU questioned his conduct, the AD said, but
    because of the 'Perception' of his relatinship with the program.  Rapp
    continues to travel with the team to away games, where he sits at the
    scorer's table as SU's representative, Boeheim said.
    
    
    
    Players said they often received free meals and drinks on Marshal
    Street, the center of Syracuse University's night life.
    
    
    
    Players also said that local businesses also made sure the Orangemen
    were ready for Syracuse winters by supplying shoes, and snow tires.
    
    
    Players said some services, such as legal advice was free and arranged
    by Bernie FIne.  Rochester attorney Loren Kroll said Fine called him
    and asked him to advise Tony Scott on what to do about traffic
    violations in August 1989.  Kroll said he advised Scott as a favor to
    Fine.  "Tony was not billed.  I just did it.  It really wasn't a big
    deal, so I just took care of it."  Scott said he got the traffic
    tickets in downtown Rochester and forgot about the tickets until he
    tried to rent a car from Rapp.  Scott said his fines were reduced from
    $500 to $144.  Richard Manning said fine arranged legal hellp for him
    after he was stopped for speeding and received a ticket.
    
    
    
    Heidi Bassin, a former manager for Boeheim's team, said her Marine
    Midland bank access card was stolen from her purse in her dormitory
    room.  She said she suspected a basketball player.  The number Bassin
    used with her card to get cash from the machine was no secret to
    players because the 4-digit code was based on the jersey numbers of
    Howard Triche and John Karpis.  More than $100 was withdrawn from
    Bassin's account and the card was returned to her purse.  She tried to
    take out money and the machine ate her card.  She then went to the bank
    to find out why, and learned she had no money in the account.  She said
    a picture was taken of the person who last used the card, but she
    refused to say who that was.  She did not report the incident to the
    police, she said.  She talked to Boeheim and said she was only
    interested in getting back her money.  "Boeheim said, you know, he
    would speak to whomever was implicated in it and handle it, and I'd get
    my money back," Bassin said.  "And he appreciated the fact I wasn't
    going to go babbling to the press about it or pull the cops in or
    anything like that."  Boeheim said he never told Bassin to keep quiet
    about the incident.  he said he discussed the matter with one of his
    players and the matter was resolved.
    
    
    
    Players said a network of booster families also supported them in
    Syracuse by giving them meals, etc...
    
    
    
    
    This was the main stuff that appeared in the 1st part of 2 articles in
    the Post Standard.
    
    
    
    - Ken -

    
    Also, I believe that the 7 player suspension before the Notre Dame game
    was because of some "Minor" infractions which the university had found
    in their investigation.  Not because of Grades!!!!
    
    - Ken -

USA Today is rptg that another alleged violation has been added to
Syracuse's list:  the hiring of a graduate asst coach last year
(Marty Byrnes), who did not have an undergraduate degree, and was
not enrolled in a graduate pgm (both req's for being a grad asst).

Now we're getting into administrative practices, and Mr. Crouthamel
is going to start feeling the heat.  Hopefully the boss will take
it out on the employee, who in this case is The Bum-heimer.


Joe

    Joe, I read your note a few days ago about low interest car loans to
    the families of the players.  That's still an NCAA violation, albeit
    minor.
    
    John

>    Joe, I read your note a few days ago about low interest car loans to
>    the families of the players.  That's still an NCAA violation, albeit
>    minor.

I'm sure it is, but Mike was stating that cars were given to players.
That's a lot different than providing low % loans on purchases of cars.

 Well Joe, even if they didn't give them cars, how tough do you think it
 was to get a loaner?

 "Geez Billy you stained the backseat the last time I gave you the Towncar"...

 ESPN report that your so called minor infraction was bad grades Ken...

 mike

    I think throwing stones at the infractions Syracuse has been
    charged with is pointless.  I would bet that every major college
    team has these perks and I think they should have them.  Bar
    A gives players free drinks and food.  The players will frequent
    bar A and so will anybody who wants to meet, mingle, and stare
    at these players.  The players, owners, and general public 
    benefit.  It's nice to have the rule but it should be an unenforced
    rule.  
    
    Jimbo

Mike, your man Tony Barone is a hot commodity (USA Today says he's
already interviewed for the Texas A&M and Colorado St. jobs).
Each day that passes with Jim Boeheim still head coach at SU
is a sad one for Syracuse fans...unless his status is pending
the outcome of the school's own investigation (which I think
Ken said was going to be completed in May).

    Its my understanding that the Spring signing period starts tomorrow,
    April 10, 1991.  Does anyone have any rumors pertaining to Big East
    signings, including both HS and Jucos?
    
    Redmen Phil
    

>                       -< Any recruiting updates??????? >-

I haven't heard anything Phil.  SU's pgm needs Donyell Marshall (PA).
He apparently still lists SU, UConn and Maryland as his "finalists".
Big East Briefs rptd over a month ago that they expected him to make
his decision after his SU visit, but since he hasn't announced any-
thing, I take it that the SU investigation has affected his decision
process (which isn't good news for SU fans).


re: Owens

Anyone hear anything re: Billy's decision to stay or go pro ?  Last
night, during CNN's rpt about Kenny Anderson's decision to go pro,
they said that IF Owens and O'Neil STICK WITH THEIR CLAIMS THAT THEY'RE
STAYING IN SCHOOL, Anderson could be the #2 pick in the NBA draft.
This statement suggests that Owens may have said something recently.


Joe

    Joe, I read in Newsday last night that Marshall eliminated SU from
    consideration because he wanted to be sure to play four (4) years in 
    the NCAA's (supposedly, any impending sanctions against SU could limit
    their participation).  He lists UConn and Maryland as the two schools 
    still in contention.  
    
    This is intersting for a couple of reasons:
    
    What guarantee is there that Maryland will get to the NCAA's for four
    (4) consecutive years, given their recent history?  I'll grant it that
    he may get more playing time early on in that program.
    
    Will he get adequate playing time up front with UConn over his Fr. and
    So. years, with everyone they have coming back and have recruited?
    
    Redmen Phil
        

Our paper this morning said he's signing a letter of intent for UCONN
today.

I'm excited....8^)

'Saw

>Our paper this morning said he's signing a letter of intent for UCONN
>today.

I don't know where the minutes will come from at UConn.  They've signed
5 or 6 kids already, and their starting frontline is back.

With Owens likely to leave this year, Syracuse was the best place for
the kid...he had a starting position waiting for him.  But I can't
blame him.  Syracuse is loaded with uncertainty right now.

If Syracuse HAD landed Donyell Marshall, they would have Mr. Basketball
from Conn (Anthony Harris), NJ (Glenn Sekunda) and PA (Marshall).
Lazarus Sims is an honorable mention in NY.  Luke Jackson (TX) was
not listed in his state.

and let's not forget James Forrest (Mr. Basketball in Georgia)...he picked
Geo Tech over SU (another to add to the list of Dennis Scott and Kenny
Anderson).

Whether anything comes out of the Syracuse investigation or not, it's
already had an impact on them and the Big East.  Last Fall Donyell
Marshall wanted to sign a letter of intent with Syracuse but his HS
coach wanted him to wait until the Spring.  Yesterday he signed with
UConn.  Syracuse has been trying to land J.B. Reafsnyder (7'0" C,
West Chester (OH) Lakota), but he's also leaning other ways, again
because of the current investigation.

Syracuse traditionally doesn't go after JC players, but the only
other players on their recruiting list for '91-92 are JUCO kids:
Frazier Johnson (6'10" C, Garden City (KS));  Darrel Mims (6'8" C,
Fulton-Montgomery(NY)).  Johnson is considering SU, UNLV, Temple
and Ariz St.  It is believed that SU got into the hunt for Mims
too late.

    Miami U. signed 7' C William Davis out of NYC, who was on the recruiting
    lists of SJU, SU and Pitt. 
    
    Gtown signed two kids, one with the first name of "Issac" and the other
    with the last name of "Harrell"; one is a 6'1" G and the other is 6'6", 
    I think.
    
    Redmen Phil 
      

    Thanks Phil.
    

    Davis was (I think) also one of two kids still being pursued by
    UMass, the other being the still-unsigned Bevon Thomas (6-8 C)
    from Catholic Memorial HS in West Roxbury, MA.
    
    NAZZ

    
    From 4/18/1991 USA TODAY:
    
    
    Syracuse basketball All-American Billy Owens, who has met with a sports
    agent, said he's "kind of sure" but not ready to announce if he has
    decided to apply for the NBA draft.  The announcement could come as
    early as today.  Owens, a junior, has until May 12.
    
    
    - Ken -

 going going going gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 I read if Denver ends up with the first pick, a likely scenerio and Billy
 declares they'll take him numero uno instead of Larry Johnson. Has anyone
 heard anything about what Mourning's plans are???

 If I had the number 1 pick, I'd take Mutumbo.....

 mike

    
    I just talked to a friend of mine up at Syracuse University.  His
    roommate is a good friend of Billy Owens and he said that Billy is 
    gone!!!  They were down at the bar the other night toasting to his
    millions....
    
    - Ken -
    
    Also, Owen's father went up to Syracuse yesterday, and the Syracuse
    papers say he will most likely announce either today or tomorrow.

    RE: Denver getting first pick
    
    Denver's chances of getting the first overall pick are only 16.7%.  But
    if they're not drawn in the first three balls, aren't they assured of
    at least a top 3 or 4 pick or something like that?
    
    Joe

 Joe, is that 16.7 based on the new weighted balls system?? Also if they
 haven't changed the breakdown of the lottery the first three spots used
 to be up for grabs and then posistions 4-7 were seeded by worst remaining
 record to best....

 mike

    The way I understand the NBA draft lottery is the worst team gets 11
    balls in the hopper, the next worst gets 10, and so on, with the best
    non-playoff team getting 1 ball.  So Denver's chances are 11 in 66, or
    16.7%.  I don't know anything about positions 4-7 being seeded by worst
    remaining record, but that sounds about right.  Therefore, the Nuggets
    are guaranteed of no worse than the 4th pick.
    
    Joe

Right. The lottery is only for the first 3 picks and then the rest are in
the order of their record. For a tie, there is no tie breaker. They're
going to draw to determine the order in the case of ties.

TTom

    Mitchell Foster, a 6'9" BF at Arizona Western College, has signed a
    letter of intent to attend St. John's next season, Arizona Western
    coach Chick Hess said Thursday.
    
    Foster averaged 16 ppg, 15 rpg and 6 blocks pg for the junior college
    in Yuma, which finished second in the National Junior College Athletic
    Association Tournament last month.
    
    "I think he was impressed with the "big-timeness" of playing there,"
    Hess said.  "You know, Lou Carnesecca, the Big Apple, the Big East. 
    He's familiar with all that."
    
    Foster, a native of Newark, NJ, also considerd Kentucky, Washington
    State, San Diego State and Hawaii, Hess said.  Foster is regarded as an
    intimidating defensive player but Hess said his "offensive game is
    untapped".
    
    St. John's earlier signed Derek Brwon, a 6'3" 2G from Carey HS on Long
    Island.  Carnesecca said at the start of the recruiting season that the
    Redmen would sign no more than 2 or 3 players.  SJU lost only 2 players
    to eligibility and will add transfer F Lamont Middleton and Prop 48 G
    Lee Green next season.
    
    Redmen Phil   

    
    It's official, yesterday afternoon Billy Owens announced that he 
    would pass up his Senior year at Syracuse, and enter the NBA lottery.
    He said that his decision to turn pro was not influenced by the NCAA
    investigation.  He said that it's always been a dream of his to be in
    the NBA, and he thought he was now ready.  He also said that he wasn't
    leaving early because of the money, but because of the NBA uniform and
    the prestige.
    
    - Ken -
    

>                           -<  It's Official...... >-

The worst-case scenario is starting to develop for Syracuse:

	-  their recruiting is being hurt (lost Donyell Marshall
	   and, most likely, J. B. Reafsnyder)

	-  Boehiem is still there

	-  Owens has left


What's left to make '91-92 a total disaster ?:

	-  the NCAA puts them on probation

	-  other (if not all) recruits change their minds and go
	   elsewhere

	-  Dave Johnson transfers



re:  Mutombo

Mike, I believe Mutombo is a lottery pick, but I can't see him going
ahead of Owens in the draft.  Owens can do everything on the basketball
court.  Mutombo currently can block shots and score within 5 feet of the
hoop...nothing else.  Sure, he's going to develop other skills, but I
doubt he'll ever approach the abilities of Billy Owens.

    I tend to believe that it will be between Larry Johnson and Billy Owens
    being the number 1 pick, unless O'Neil changes his mind.  Mutombo will
    be about the 4th or 5th player taken depending on what teams fall where
    in the draft.
    
    I wouldn't mind seeing any of these boys in Teal and Purple next year.
    
    	--dan'l

    re .464
    
    That's what they said about Akeem too, and Ewing (as far as offense
    goes) ....
    
    Mutumbo is going to be one hell of a pro player ....

>    That's what they said about Akeem too, and Ewing (as far as offense
>    goes) ....

I've never heard Mutombo compared with Alajuwon and Ewing.  I don't think
he comes close to their abilities...or ever will.  And I don't think any-
one ever said that "Hakeem" could only blocks shots and score from within
5 feet.

    Hakeem was short-sold when he came out of college. As someone who was
    very aware of his abilities from Day 1 in Texas, it caused most UH
    followers great amusement to hear about the oncomming "Ewing Era",
    "Sampson Era", and "Bowie Era", as if Hakeem would be nothing more than
    a role player in it all .... :-)
    
    When Ewing came out of Georgetown, most people felt that his offensive
    game was very limited, and that he would be a 15-20ppg center at best.
    Thompson maintained all along that Ewing would suprise a lot of people
    in the pros with his low post game. And he did. While it may be
    expecting too much of Dikembe to score like Ewing, to suggest his range
    and capabilities (5 feet) are along the lines of a Mark Eaton - THAT is
    a real reach ...
    
    Doc

    	Doc, how could the guy be short sold when he was the first player
    taken in the draft?
    
    				/Don

    The book on Hakeem was that he hadn't been playing hoops very long, and
    was still unpolished.  Which was true.  He had foul problems early on -
    and he lacked polish in his game.  That was righted after a few
    seasons.  A gifted athlete, that's for sure.
    
    But it isn't like he was ignored in the draft or anything, sheesh.
    
    JD

>    While it may be
>    expecting too much of Dikembe to score like Ewing, to suggest his range
>    and capabilities (5 feet) are along the lines of a Mark Eaton - THAT is
>    a real reach ...

I said *currently* his game consists of 5' buckets and shot-blocking.
I also said that he most likely will develop more skill (10' buckets ??).
I never said he was another Mark Eaton, or Bol.  My statements were in
response to Mr. Childs saying that he'd take Mutombo 1st in the draft,
ahead of people like Billy Owens.

Owens can do EVERYTHING...he just needs to perfect some or all of it.
Mutombo has shown that he can be an inside intimidator (period).  Can
he dribble, shoot a jumper, bouce pass, play one-on-one defense in the
open court ?  I haven't seen him do any of this yet, and I've seen a lot
of him the last few years.  If you can show me some film of him shooting
a jumper......

He doesn't have a well-rounded game.  IMO, you can develop some of the
pieces, but not everything.  Billy O has it all, and therefore is much
more valuable to an NBA team.

Pat Ewing had zero (0) offensive moves coming out of georgetown. While Thompson
might have said that he'd surprise people in the NBA it wasn't through anything
Big John taught him. Everything Ewing currently has offensively he's been taught
in the Pros. 

Just look at his scoring average from his first year till now. 

I'd rate Motumbo lower than Ewing coming out of school simply because he didn't
get the attention that Ewing got. I doubt you could go wrong with him as the
#1 pick in the draft. He certainly has the physical skills to become another
Ewing or Hakeem IMO. 

No denying Owens has more skills Now....


Metz

 Joe, defense is the name of the game and Mutumbo has it all Owens and
 Johnson in that respect. He has a jump hook and he can jam what more does
 a 7'2" guy need? Kareem's the all time leading score in the league how many
 15 foot jumpshots did he hit?

 Yes Billy is gifted but he's been a man playing with boys same with Larry.
 What's going to happen to them at the next level, when people are just as
 big, just as physical, just as quick as them? Also there are some serious
 questions about both Billy and Larry's outside shots. I can envision both
 having nice James Worthy type careers but neither is a franchise, Mutumbo
 most certainly can be.

 If you don't think Mutumbo can play man to man than you obviously haven't
 been paying attention to anybody else on the court except those orangemen.

 Mutumbo has grown so fast on the court that he forced Mourning out of the
 hole and on to the perimeter. The only skill I see Mutumbo lacking to as
 far as playing the low post is the passing ability. The right coach and 
 the kid is a star!!!!!!

 Owens is flash, Larry is trash, and Dikembe is the REAL DEAL!!!!!!!!

 mike
 

Mike,  you've hit bottom.  Talk about trash, that's about all that's
in your analysis.

> Joe, defense is the name of the game and Mutumbo has it all Owens and
> Johnson in that respect.

What kind of defense are you talking about ?  My guess is shot intimidation,
not man-to-man, where you're exposed to the dribble-by moves.  I can't
remember seeing Dikembe more that 5' from the hoop in any of G'town's
defensive sets.  Have you ever seen him playing a man 15' from the hoop
in a clear-out situation ?  I've seen Owens in this situation, and I've
seen him take the ball away from his man OR block his shot.  I've also
seen him pick-off many passes from the weak side (ala Bird).


>He has a jump hook and he can jam what more does
> a 7'2" guy need? Kareem's the all time leading score in the league how many
> 15 foot jumpshots did he hit?

So now we're putting this guy in Kareem's category are we ?  BTW, Kareem
didn't need a 15' jumpshot when he could hit 20' hooks.  Let's see Mr.
Mutombo do that.


> Also there are some serious questions about both Billy and Larry's outside
  shots.

Only in your mind Mike.  Billy was dropping 3's pretty well this year.


>I can envision both having nice James Worthy type careers but neither is
> a franchise, Mutumbo most certainly can be.

At this point of his career, I think Billy O would be pretty happy if
he were guaranteed at least a James Worthy-type career.  And I believe that
the only thing that would stop him from being a franchise-type player is
what I perceive to be a lack of "take charge"...some real fire in his
approach to the game.  One of the Big East coaches said that he'd never
seen a player play the game so easily...so calmly (I guess).  Well, I'd
like to see him play with a little more emotion...some nastiness...like
Mr. Coleman (speaking of Derrick, weren't you one of the guys that said
that he wouldn't be that good in the NBA ????). :^) :^) :^)


> Mutumbo has grown so fast on the court that he forced Mourning out of the
> hole and on to the perimeter.

Hey, both were going to play, and of the 2 at least Mourning HAS a jumpshot.
And I believe it's because of Dikembe's lack of 1-1 skills that it was
best that he play next to the hoop (ie: "you stay here and block shots").


I think Dikembe will develop into a good center in the NBA, but I don't
think he offers a team what Owens does, and I certainly do not believe
that he is or ever will be a franchise player.

    Billy Owens 6-8 F:  nice shot, takes ball to the hole well, excellent
    passer for a forward, questionable conditioning and defense.  Will
    probably not get much better as a pro.
    
    Dikembe Mutombo 7-2 C:  Excellent defensive timing, great shot-blocker,
    still learning the game.  Weak offensively away from basket.  Runs
    floor well for big man.  Should continue to improve as a pro.
    
    As to which one I'd pick, it would depend on the team.  For example,
    Miami has the last two #1 picks, Glen Rice and Willie Burton, who are
    approximately the same size as Owens.  Not enough PT to go around, so
    the Heat should take Mutombo.  On the other hand, Minnesota has Felton
    Spencer and needs scoring to take burden off Tony Campbell. Take Owens.
    
    Here's who I would pick if I were a lottery team and had to choose:
    Sacramento - Owens; New Jersey - Owens; Orlando - Mutombo; Charlotte -
    Mutombo;  Cleveland - Owens; Dallas - Owens; Washington - Mutombo; LA
    Clippers - Mutombo.  I assume Denver will take Larry Johnson with the
    first pick, but why I assume that isn't really clear.  ;-)
    
    NAZZ

 Joe,

   Nazz got it about it right it depends upon your need. Owens may have
 hit some threes but you can't honestly sit here and tell me he's consistent
 from that distance can you? Granted Mutumbo mostly played in the paint but I
 have seen him effectively play folks 15 feet from the basket and the fact
 that he is quick should allow him to be very effective  in man to man 
 defense.  How many times has he looked beaten only to swat the shot from
 behind? I'm not putting him in Kareem's class just stating that his size
 will allow him to not require many moves to be offensively effective.

  is it a sin to critize Owens? I mean I've talked about him being the
 kind of player I'd pay money to go see but yet anytime I mention there
 are questions about him you can't handle it without striking back at me
 personally...

 very touchy about those o-men  ;^)

 I'll say it again right now he ain't a franchise player but Dike has the
 tools to be...

 mike

    On Saturday's tape delayed Dapper Dan game, I heard Dick Vitale (when 
    mentioning that Orlando Antigua will be attending Pitt next year) say 
    that a 6'10" C, Eric Mobley (I believe he's from Westchester County in 
    NY), will be playing for Pitt next year also.  I know he originally 
    signed out of HS with Pitt, and then had grade problems, which resulted 
    in him attending a JUCO.
    
    Can anyone confirm this?
    
    By the way, at the Dapper Dan game, it was clearly evident that the B10 
    has some huge bodies coming in next year.  I see it becoming THE CONFERENCE
    of the early 90's.
    
    Redmen Phil
      

>    that a 6'10" C, Eric Mobley (I believe he's from Westchester County in 
>    NY), will be playing for Pitt next year also.

Big East Briefs says Mobley IS transfering from Allegany (MD) CC to Pitt.
He sat out last yr and has 3 yrs of eligibility remaining.

    Phil,
    just a nit - 
    
    It ALREADY is the early 90's!
    
    B.E. ROOOLES!!!!!
    
    GO LOUIEEEEEE!
    
    Kev
    

    > It ALREADY is the early 90's!
    
    Based on what Kev?  By every meaningful metric the ACC has been 
    the dominant conference over the last several years.
    
    :^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    ACC_Chris,                      *
    				   / \
    				    |
    				    |
    			            
    See above...................
    
    'nuff said!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev

>                -< What about the BE-ACC Challenge Series???? >-

Exhibition games. Hell, Cliff Rozier even played against UConn.

TTom

    Dunnot trot out that made-for-TV event Kev.  It's significance pails in
    comparison with, say, conference power ratings and NCAA Tournament
    results.
    
    Seriously though, the Big East would seem to a hoops conference on the
    decline.  You've got the flagship programs of SorryExcuse (tm) and
    Gougetown (tm) clearly in recession (one of 'em might be on probation
    soon) and no heir apparents looming on the horizon.  It's been a long
    time since you could say they had the best recruiting class of any
    conference in the USA.  The addition of Miami will add zilch in terms
    of quality hoops, except *possibly* open up the state of Florida to the
    Big Beast.  (This advantage is greatly minimized though with FSU going
    to the ACC.)
    
    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, guys.  [:^)]
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    
    ACChris,
    
    You don't keep on Bball outside of the ACC now do you?  Flagship
    programs emerging from the BE are both Seton Hall and UConn, who
    have talented coaches and have had great recruiting years(the last two
    years).  Both are turning into dominant programs and will be a force
    in the 90's, especially Seton Hall.
    
    Cap

    If *my* conference had Seton Hall and UConn as its flagship programs,
    I'd be worried.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    BE National Champs (2)
    
    Georgetown and 'Nova ...
    
    Finalists (6) : G'Town (3), Nova, S. Hall, SorryExcuse.
    
    ACC Champs - NC, NC State
    Finalists  - ?????
    
    ACC the best  ?
    
    ha ...

    Last I checked Duke is still the reigning NCAA Champs.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I was speaking of the 80's ... and when did you start claiming Duke for
    your own ?

    > I was speaking of the 80's
    
    Check out my p-name Doctor.  The Big Least (tm) was already crowned
    champeens of the 80's.
    
    
    > when did you start claiming Duke for your own ?
    
    Carolina fans have no chip on their shoulder relative to the rest of
    the ACC teams.  Note that this CANNOT be said of supports of other
    schools, who wear their hatred/envy of UNC on their sleeves.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    ACC_Chris,
    	Power ratings et al is bunk!  The BE-ACC challenge is
    
    	MANO a MANO - you vs. us
    
    pure and simple.  You say ACC is the best, I counter with the
    results of the BE-ACC tournament.
    
    The results speak for themselves.
    
    btw - having the current NCAA champ doesn't make the overall depth
    or competitiveness of the ACC any better.  Top to bottom,
    
    
    THE BIG EAST *OWNS* THE ACC !!!!!!
    
    
    Keep Dreamin.....
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    

    
    > Carolina fans have no chip on their shoulder relative to the rest of
    > the ACC teams.  Note that this CANNOT be said of supports of other
    > schools, who wear their hatred/envy of UNC on their sleeves.
    
    Didn't you say you were rooting for Kansas in the final?
    
    glenn
    

    > Didn't you say you were rooting for Kansas in the final?
    
    Course I was glenn.  Blood *is* thicker than water ya know, and
    Roy Williams still bleeds Carolina Blue.
    
    HTH,
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    >Last I checked Duke is still the reigning NCAA Champs.
    
    CHris, remember, simply counting national championships when there is
    so much more information out there is pedestrian analysis.
    
    Dan

I don't really feel like backing any of this up, but here's a premise you
can all "chaw" on for a few days:

	I would put forth that a clean system that is excellent over time
	yet wins little or no champeenships (ie 1 for 31) is as bad
	as a dirty, dirty program (ie cars for players, $$ for players etc)
	that wins a whole bunch of champeenships!

There you go dudes....

'Saw

    Never said I did Dan.  Just wanted to correct Doctor for an apparent
    ommission.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    re: .496 (1Way)
    
    In a moralless society, where "bad" could be equally defined as
    "murder, theft, or rape" and "failure to win more than one NCAA
    Championship", you could be right.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I dunno 'Saw,
    
    I guess it all depends on where a person's priorities are.  If winning
    is the only thing, mebbe you are right but if they're not, .....
    
    Besides, we AINT talking about "systems", That little tidbit belongs
    back in the ACC note #?.  This discussion about the BE vs. the ACC is
    simply a ::MDUC between the righteousness of the Big East Clan and the
    evil doers of the demon-posessed ACC (due to redneck and terbaccy
    influences, no doubt).  Do your little ~/~ thingie in the right
    place!!!!
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    ps - I spelled that little jem correctly too.  It DOES look weird
    though - dont' it?
    

"Bad" can have more than one meaning.  If you want to play the semantics
game, I'd say that murder and that stuff is HEINOUS.  Bad is not that bad,
and as Huey Lewis says, "Sometimes bad is bad..."


As to the Big East, ACC debate, I don't think we have enough data yet
to make a wise judgement.  Although I will say that the traditional powerhouses
of the Big East, Georgetown and Syracuse, do seem to have slipped in the
last couple of years, compared to a few years prior to that.....

hth,
'Saw

Back to Saw's premise:

I think that there is definitely something immoral when the bestest
coach in the bestest program with the bestest talent can only win 1
bestest of the year title and had to have that one passed to them.

For the record, I don't rate a team solely on their NCAA championships or
their chokes therein. No Carolina, for instance, has scootched a pooch
often in the ACC tourney.

As far as Big East vs ACC goes, I like the rivalry. The early games are
fun and relatively meaningless, save transient bragging rights. Bringing
them up now is only another symptom that the Big East is currently a
sagging conference.

TTom

    The Big East and Big Ten both have better hockey teams than the
    Atlantic Coast Conference.  So there.
    
    John

    Hockey is for wusses ...

    Yeah, whot he said!!!!
    
    and TTom, it wasn't ME who brought up the BE-ACC   ::MRUC,
    ACC_Chris started it.
    
    Hey Bob,
    
    If ya average out the records between the BE and the ACC to include
    the NCAA's, we're STILL better. So there!
    
    Kev
    

    With the exception of Syracuse, the ACC has better lacrosse teams.  So
    there.
    
    John
    
    PS - Doc, I know you think hockey is for wusses but I'm just trying to
    start trouble and show how absurd this whole thing is

Well, now I know why Doc doesn't play hockey.......

The last 20+ replies really shows you just how far the Big East
has come, as a power basketball conference.  We've got the loyal
ACC following dancing a quick 2-step to justify their claim that
the ACC is *still* the best.  10 years ago this wouldn't have been
doubted.  But now, after a decade of BIG Big East results, we're
talking about the conference being in a bit of a down time.  This
is GREAT !!!  Thanks for the respect !!!

(BTW Chris, you know that these big recruiting classes at NC and
Duke are really going to put the pressure on these 2 ACC schools
to produce more than 2 NCAA titles in 10 years.)


As for claims that the Big East *IS* experiencing a down-turn,
let's wait and see what the '91-92 results look like.  I think
the Big East did itself proud in this year's NCAA tournament
(except for their regular season conference champion).  St. John's,
UConn and Seton Hall did VERY well.  And Georgetown put up a good
game against *then-monster* (I love saying that) UNLV.

The conference had only 9 seniors this year.  UConn has one of the
top 3 recruiting classes, and Syracuse's early signees gave them
a top 10 recruiting class.  And because I always have to say some-
thing good about my team, let's not bury Syracuse yet.  They aren't
on probation today.  Owen's leaving will hurt a lot, but I don't
think Ellis' absence will be a big deal (as long as McRae can avoid
foul trouble).  Everyone else is back.  Add that great recruiting
class, and they should still be a top 20, NCAA tournament team.

re: .508

I agree wholeheartedly about the progress that the Big East has made.
Northwestern should contact the Big East on how to create and maintain a
top level hoops program.

Let's see if the Big East can do it with football.

TTom

    Hey Joe, we handed ya the mythical "Conference of the 80's" Title 
    already.  Trouble is the traditional power has responded with some
    vicious body blows and youze guys are on 1 knee gasping for air!
    
    Heh heh!
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    In traditional red neck mannerisims, those so called body blows 
    were sucker punches to the filberts and the gasping for air is  'cause
    youz swallered some redman and farted!
    
    ;*)
    
    Kev
    

    re .506 ps
    
    JOhn, why do you think I threw that hockey crack in there ?
    
    heh heh heh ...

>    Trouble is the traditional power has responded with some
>    vicious body blows and youze guys are on 1 knee gasping for air!

Chris, I'll admit that Smith's recruiting steals out of NYC a year ago
impressed me...that had to be a big blow to the Big East egos.  You
won't catch me saying the ACC is in trouble.  It's just nice to have
the "old boys" scrambling.

    North Carolina in and of itself has better women's soccer and field
    hockey than the rest of the Big East and Big Ten combined.  So there.
    
    John

    John your anti-UCONN bias is showing. 8*)  UCONN womens soccer and field
    hockey are on North Carolina's level, assuming that is a national
    contender level.  Even UMASS is on this level.
    
    Jimbo

 BE ACC tourment versus like powers teams supposedly equal so it's a better
 comparision than the top of the ACC and country accounting for the dismisal
 of two of the BE entries in the Big Dance and NC barely surviving against
 the top rated but choking bandits from the Hills.....

 no shame for the Big East...

 mike

 and on a more historical note the Soup swore up and down that was no how no
 way that anyone would beat UNLV which Seton Hall lost too than the Dukies,
 (the Nerds by Soups' defination) beat those Rebs and win the Title. Now
 we have Soup taking credit for Duke's victory....

 this lead me to two summation:

 1: Soup can twirl with the best of them....

 2: That they can take happiness out of their archrival's truimph shows why
    the baby blue followers can easily digest the yearly choke. 

 mike

    UConn women's soccer isn't even close to North Carolina.  The Heels
    have won many, many consecutive titles (including one in 1987 that I
    prefer not to think about, thank you very much) and UConn hasn't even
    won one.  I'm sure Christopher can enlighten us on this.  The UConn
    field hockey team has won 1 national title and UNC has won more than
    that.  Anti-UConn bias has nothing to do with it.
    
    Again, you're missing my point in any event.  I'm putting things like
    that in here to show how absurd the arguments are.
    
    John

    UNC's women's soccer program is unparalleled amongst *any* NCAA 
    program.  They've won the national Title something like 5 years 
    in a row.  They'd won over 100 games in a row before Connecticut
    beat them this year.  (Their only loss of the year.)
    
    They haven't lost a home game since 1979.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

    I believe Hobart Lacrosse would have somehting to say about that...
    
    A division 3 program that routinely beat ranked division 1 teams and
    won 9 or 10 NCAA titles in a row....
    
    

    Hobart's not in the Big East, Cap.  Again, the comparison is among the
    alleged big 3 of college hoops - ACC, Big East and Big Ten.  I feel
    that the Atlantic 10 is better than all 3 combined, but what do I know? 
    Hobart is irrelevant to the discussion.
    
    I don't know who's best in tiddly-winks.
    
    John

    
    I know John..... ACChris was just saying that the UNC woman's soccer
    problem was unparalleled, I was giving an example that it was not...

    Agreed John.  Here we are talkin mano-a-mano Big Beast versus ACC (or
    in this case, womano-a-womano) and Cap starts talkin' Hobart lacrosse.
    
    Sheesh.
    
    
    - ACC Chris

For you SU fans, Big East Briefs (as of Monday's printing) says that
Syracuse is NOW leading in the race to land 7'0" center J.B. Reafsnyder
of West Chester Lakota (OH).  Maryland and NC State are also in the hunt.

They are also on the short list for JUCO center Frazier Johnson (6'10",
Garden City JC -KS).  He's also looking at Temple, Nebraska and UNLV.


Boeheim talks about next year, saying:  "We're going to be small...We'll
play a 4-perimeter-player team a lot next year.  Our big people will have
to rebound and play defense."


This newsletter picks SU as a middle-of-the-pack BE team next year.


Luke Jackson met the SAT requirement.  Lazarus Sims is waiting for his
results.

Lawrence Moten almost changed his mind about SU (he hasn't signed the
scholarship papers yet).  He was being pressured by Maryland during
a recent trip home (DC).  His coach says he straightened him out and
will be shocked if he turns away from SU.


Speaking of signing papers, once the kid signs, he can't transfer without
sitting out a year, isn't that correct ?  I think there was an exception
with the 2 kids at UNLV last year 'cause they didn't sign a scholarship
offer, but a Financial Aid sheet, or something like that.

UConn recruit Richie Ashmeade failed to make the SAT cut.  Ditto for
BC recruits Dan Buie and Jaime Peterson.  UConn's Kevin Ollie (who they
project as their starting point guard) is enrolled in a preparatory
course and will take the test 5/4.


They're calling Donyell Marshall UConn's most heralded recruit since
the BE era.  Thank you Syracuse Post Standard.


Nice article on "High Expectations at UConn - Recruiting Fuels Husky
Hysteria".  People have been asking Calhoun if they're in the Final Four
now.

With all these good young players (7 signees), and only 1 Sr. this
year, it'll be interesting to see where the PT is going to come from.
Syracuse couldn't keep everyone from their huge recruiting classes
in '86 and '88 happy.  Both those classes experienced massive defections
(3 of 5 in '86;  2 of 6 in '88, & Owens going to the NBA as a Jr.).



Hey Mike, they quote one NBA GM as saying, "Mourning would be drafted
in the top 7, so why should he stay around in school.  Why risk another
year in college?  I know he has insurance, but that doesn't make up for
a career lost if he hurts himself.  He should come out now."

As for projections about Mutombo:

	- "He's the top center available...he has a lot of potential...
	   He can certainly help a team immediately with his defense.
	   Offensively, it will take some time.  - Bullets GM John Nash

	- "He's a lottery pick.  Because of his size...defense...and
	   willingness to learn...he should be the first center taken.
	   He has unlimited potential."  - Knicks scout Dick McGuire

what do the Knicks and Bullets know ???  :^)  look where their talent
evaluations have gotten them !!!


I was surprised to read that some scouts say Brian Shorter needs a couple
years in Europe to develop his game (learn to face the basket).  Ditto
for Bobby Martin (not surprising).

There is some concern about Eric Murdock's ability to "distribute the
ball" in the NBA.  One NBA scout said, "what is he ?  a point guard or a
shooting guard ?"  They believe he'll go late in the first round.

 But Joe what did they have to say about your man Billy?

 I myself wonder why Mourning is staying. I guess he figures he'll be
 the number 1 pick next year provided Shack stays in school. That could
 amount to some serious bucks. Perhaps he looked at how Coleman did???

 anyway the bestest news out of all of your reports is that Boehiem is
 staying YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 mike

>There is some concern about Eric Murdock's ability to "distribute the
>ball" in the NBA.  One NBA scout said, "what is he ?  a point guard or a
>shooting guard ?"  They believe he'll go late in the first round.
    
    A lot of potential in the Joe Dumars direction.  No guarantees at all
    that his whole game comes up, but that's who he most reminded me of at
    the Big East tourney.
    
    Dan

Alonzo "Zo" Mourning is returning for his senior at G'town.  Smart
move on his part.  He should terrorize (in more than one way) the BE
next year.

>            -< thanks Joe. Just made my day, how about yours? ;^) >-

Mike, I'm almost indifferent when it comes to G'town these days.
I mean, they haven't beaten SU in 3 years, so they've become "just
another BE team" in my eyes.

Now if you want to talk about Rollie, and his girly-man slow-down
game...that puts fear in my heart !!!

 yeah right Joe hahahhahaaaaa indifferent my butt...great shot though the screw
 in my back is now about two twists to tight...

 ;^)

    Oooo, the ultimate cutdown.  Nice work Joe.  Nothing worse than
    indifference, I'll say ...
    
    I personally will know the Carolina Dynasty is over when the anti's
    start treating UNC like "just another team".  Won't happen 'til Dean
    hangs em up though, you can rest assured!
    
    :^)
    
    
    - ACC Chris

I'm glad to see that we can still generate some *discussion* in here
during the "off-season".

    
    
    Joe, here's your answer.....
    
    Syracuse     2
    Georgetown   0
    
    
    - Ken -

    Syracuse was the only Big East team to make the NCAA Lacrosse playoffs
    while the Atlantic 10 had 2, the Ivy League had 2, the ACC had 3 and
    even the Big Ten had 1.
    
    John

USA Today has the college b-ball signings in today's paper.  Analysts
say Michigan may have the best recruiting class of all time, signing
4 of the concensus Top 12 players in the country.

They list UConn and Syracuse among the Top 8 in recruiting.

SU's recruits:

	J.B. Reafsnyder 7'0" center  West Chester (Ohio) Lakota
	Lawrence Moten 6'4" 2G/SF  New Hampton (NH)...hometown is Wash DC
	Anthony Harris 6'2" 2G  Danbury, Conn.
	Lazarus Sims 6'4"  PtG  Syracuse (Henninger), NY
	Luke Jackson 6'6"  SF  Beaumont (TX) Westbrook
	Glenn Sekunda 6'7"  PF  Parsipanny, NJ

It's great to see that they got Reafsnyder.  They were desparate for a
center to backup McRae.  Hopefully he'll be ready to make the big jump
and contribute.

Sekunda was Mr. Basketball in NJ, so he may find himself starting in
Owens' old spot because they have no one else to play power forward,
unless Boeheim is serious about playing 4 perimeter players and one
center.


They had a nice recruiting season...appearing to get a player for
every position.

Gee, I wonder if any of the Orange "signings" can hit the backboard from
the free-throw line...

Oh, well, Boeheim will breed it out of them, anyway...

    
    Stevie Thompson was the CBA Rookie of the Year!!!!
    
    
    - Ken -

    
    Stevie Thompson was the CBA Rookie of the Year!!!!
                            ^^^    
                            ^^^

   why ain't he playing with the big boys? Could he be limited
   by his own ability and the tremendously horrible teachings
   he received at his alma matta????

  mike

    
    re: -1
    
    >>Why ain't he playing with the big boys?? 
    
    I don't know.  Why isn't Charles Smith playing with the big boys????
    
    Mike, I agree with 1/2 of what you said.  He didn't learn anything from
    Boeheim.  Thompson definetely has the talent!  I'm not really sure if
    he has improved his outside shot at all this past year, but I think he
    will be with the big boys sooner or later....
    
    
    - Ken -
     

    
    Mike,
    
    Who did G-Town pick up for recruits this year?  Anyone significant?
    
    - Ken -

Ken (or anyone),

How did SU's lacrosse team fare against John's Hopkins this past weekend ?

    It's in the ACC note.  SU beat Hopkins 11-8 and will play North
    Carolina in the first game of the doubleheader on Saturday.  NC had
    beaten Loyola 11-9.  Maryland, 16-13 winners over Brown and Towson
    State, triple OT winners over Princeton, play in the other game.
    
    John

 Ken, I don't know to tell you the truth about the Gtown recruits. I don't
 follow the recruiting wars. It's such a catch-22. Just look at UNC.

 Charles Smith was playing with the big boys until his personal problems
 got in the way.

 not only does Steve Thompson have to improve his outside shot he must
 learn how to hasndle and protect the ball. If his pocket was any easier
 to pick you'd swear his pants had holes in them...

 ;^().....

 Also what does Georgetown really need? Mourning will man the middle. Kelly
 will play the power forward spot take his lumps and draw his fouls. Brown
 Churchwell and Harrison will all be a year oldler and wiser. Lamont Morgan
 and Pel_something or other (the 7'2" kid) gives them some depth. All they 
 really need is for Stomper to turn the reins over to Ershkin and then battle
 the shit out out of Seton Hall for the Beast of the East title...

  SU on the other hand will porobably be playing in the thursday nite game
  of the BET this year....

  mike

    
    So Mike, who do you think will win that Thursday night BET game,
    Syracuse or Georgetown??? :-)  If you think Syracuse will be at the
    bottom of the pack, I think you will be in for a pleasant (or not so
    pleasant) surprise.  I think they are going to have a pretty good team
    this year!!  Yes, they lost Owens, but he's not the only good player on
    the team.  (But it would sure be nice to have him back!).  Losing Ellis
    won't matter at all to me.  I'd rather see Conrad McRae in there. 
    Johnson improved a lot last year, let's see if he's even better this
    year.  Adrian Autry, had an o.k. year, but from what everybody has been
    saying, he's a much better player than he showed last year.  McCorkle 
    started getting some PT towards the end of the year and can hit the
    outside shot.  Plus the addition of some pretty good freshman, I
    think Syracuse will be a pretty tough team!!!
    
    
    Now all we need is a coach!!!
    
    - Ken -
    

    
    John, 
    
    Do you happen to know if the UNC Lax team is undefeated??  Should be a 
    good match-up this Saturday.  I'll be there!!!!!
    
    - Ken -

    UNC's lacrosse team is the only unbeaten team left in the tournament
    with a 13-0 record I believe.  Brown was unbeaten prior to its loss to
    Maryland.
    
    John

 the thursday nite matchup is a lock Ken. It'll be SU vs. Pitt...the two
 worst coaches in the league it's only fitting. Let's not crown Davey
 Johnson a savior now. After all Owens drew double and triple teaming last
 year so Davey was open with enough floor space to shoot unguard or start
 his moves unmolested. I think he'll be good cause he hustles and will mix
 it up but he can't carry the team. I look at McKorkle I think Roe, Jimmy
 destroyed him. McRea's raw and takes too many dumb foul and Autrey is 
 blessed but it'll never be his team to run he'll have to run it Jimmy's
 way or sit and that will be what kills them.

 Think back to Mourning's first year...he step aside and got forced aside
 for Mutumbo this year it's his team again. His paint his time to prove
 himself again...Scared yet???? I'll bet 8 out 9 coaches in the league
 are...

 this is the way I see it

   1. Georgetowen
   2. Seton Hall
   3. UConn
   4. Villinova
   5. SJU
   6. Prov
   7. BC
   8. SU
   9. Pitt

with a lot of teams a game or two above below 500....

    
    
    Re: -1
    
    >> Scared yet???
    
    
       Nope!!!!
    
    
    Mourning is a good player, but I don't think he's anything special. 
    All this kid does is WHINE whenever he doesn't get his own way or if
    he gets a call against him.  
    
    Your right about McKorkle reminding people of Roe, but I think McKorkle
    is a better defensive player.  Roe couldn't play defense if his life
    depended on it.  McRae does make a lot of stupid fouls, but he's
    learning.  He's definitely a factor under the basket, and his shot-
    blocking is great.  He has to improve on his offensive game.  I think
    he'll be better for SU than Ellis was because he plays with more
    intensity.  
    
    
    I think you're right about a lot of teams being near the .500 mark, but
    I disagree with both predictions that you give G-Town and Syracuse.
    
    
    - Ken -
    

>                                -< Calling Joe >-


Do you say these things just to get us SU fans all worked up ?  You
can't honestly believe them.


> I look at McKorkle I think Roe,

You aren't really watching if you see Matt Roe in Scott McCorkle.  1st
of all, he plays small forward, Matt Roe played off-guard.  Secondly,
McCorkle can rebound and drive to the hoop.  Roe had no guts for getting
inside.  McCorkle has more facets to his game (as a freshman) than Matt
Roe could ever have.


>Autrey is  blessed but it'll never be his team to run he'll have to run
>it Jimmy's way or sit and that will be what kills them.

There are many things that Boeheim does wrong, but one thing I like is
that he "let's the point guard play" (his own words).  Over the years,
the only point guard I've seen him really come down on is Edwards, and
at times I think he's been justified.  Edwards is not a premier point
guard.  After Washington and Douglas, he just doesn't meet expectations.

The only way Autry WON'T be the leader on the floor is if Bum-heim doesn't
sit Edwards down and give him the job.


> this is the way I see it

>   1. Georgetowen
>   2. Seton Hall
>   3. UConn
>   4. Villinova
>   5. SJU
>   6. Prov
>   7. BC
>   8. SU
>   9. Pitt

The only way SU will be that low will be if they get axed by the NCAA
and lose some of their players via transfer....or all of these freshmen
(that make up one of the Top 8 recruiting classes in the country) are
not what everyone says they are.

I think SU will be a middle-of-the-pack team, but not a cellar-dwellar.


And re: Mourning, his character problems will never allow him to be
the dominant player everyone thought he was going to be, IMHO.

I think Seton Hall is better than Georgetown.

 the Mckorkle thing maybe a bit off but it sure seemed to me that
 everytime Edwards went to the bench and Autry ran the team, things
 went well till he screwed up and then he got his butt reamed by Jimmy.
 This isn't the same jimmy who just rolled it out there and let them 
 play.....

 mike

    Everyone is forgetting that Miami will join the BE this coming season.  
    I say they're a shoe in for last place.  Also, there will be two 
    Thursday evening games this year, #7 vs. #10, and #8 vs. #9.
    
    In any event, you can be sure the Redmen will be knocked out in the 
    1st round.
    
    Redmen Phil
        

    Early Big East prediction:
    
    	1) UConn
    	2) Seton Hall
    	3) St. John's
    	4) Sorryexcuse (tm)
    	5) Villanova
    	6) Georgetown
    	7) Pitt
    	8) Providence
    	9) Miami
    	10) BC
    
    NAZZ

 Thanks Phil. I thought Miami was coming in, in the 92-93 season....

 no matter SU will still be playing on thursday... ;^)

 mike

> everytime Edwards went to the bench and Autry ran the team, things
> went well till he screwed up and then he got his butt reamed by Jimmy.
> This isn't the same jimmy who just rolled it out there and let them 
> play.....

Another of his faults is that he doesn't give freshman any slack (except
for Owens).

I think I read that Richie Ashmeade passed his SAT requirements
and is eligible to play this coming year.  Is he the kid that
had to sit out this past year (Prop 48) ?

    Yes he didn't pass the SAt requiremnet last year but he didn't
    prop 48 he went to either a prep school or a local JC I think.
    After one whole year of studying he came in with a "750".  I hope
    he doesn't expect an easy time with his studies......
    
    Jimbo

    The SJU Redmen completed their tour of Spain with a 2-8 win/loss 
    record.  BF/C Shawnelle Scott was the leading scorer at 14.5ppg, 
    along with 9rpg.  SF Malik Sealy contributed 14ppg.  
    
    Although the record was poor, most of the games were close, and 
    this trip gave the Redmen an opportunity to begin to integrate 
    Lamont Middleton and Lee Green into the team.
    
    Redmen Phil
           

The latest Big East Briefs arrived yesterday and had an article on
Boeheim's situation at Syracuse.  Rumors have him being forced to
resign as a result of the school's internal investigation...with
one report saying that SU's administrators are going to offer the
job to Siena's Mike Deane.  Boeheim laughs it off, asking, "yeah,
and did you hear the one about Terry Holland and Denny Crum being
on campus ?".

Says Boeheim, "There have been reports that I was going to resign
on April 15, and then on May 1, and then later on May 15.  That
stuff is just total bullbleep.  There's not one grain of truth
to it.  I'll be here next year."

At a dinner, during which Boeheim was honored by the Nat'l Kidney
Foundation of Central NY, Mike Krzyzewski spoke, saying, "he's
a team guy...you should recognize what the hell has been done
here.  My hope is that Syracuse will stand firm behind Jim
Boeheim and make sure he can overcome any difficulties he may
face."

Boeheim later said, "this is the best coaching job in the country,
the only place I've ever wanted to be.  As long as I'm able to coach,
I will coach at Syracuse.  I believe we will continue to get great
basketball players and continue to have great basketball teams at
Syracuse."

The Bummer admits that the investigation will make it very difficult
to get blue-chip prospects.  "Quality players want to know what's
going on, and we won't know what's going to happen until next spring.
The internal investigation won't be over until the fall, at the earliest.
Depending on what happens between us and the NCAA, you're looking at next
spring before it gets resolved.  Fortunately, we only need one position
(power forward).  We'll have twelve guys coming back.  If we needed two,
3 or 4 players, it would be very hard for us to get quality players."

Jim Calhoun (playing golf with Boeheim at the Duke Children Hospital's
Celebrity golf tournament) believes that one day Boeheim will be
recognized for his achievements.  "Based on record, he's on his way
to the Hall of Fame.  It's pretty tough to complain about a guy who
has one of the top 3 records in all of college basketball.  If he
coaches 10 more years, assuming he has the same rate of success,
Jimmy will have one of the greatest records that anybody has ever
had.  He'd probably surpass Bobby Knight and Dean Smith.  That's
mind boggling.  WHETHER ANYBODY AGREES WITH HOW HE COACHES is
irrelevant.  The key issue is he's proven that he's a good basket-
ball coach."

Coach K and Calhoun obviously know that they'll continue to have
great success with the help of Jim Boeheim at Syracuse.



On the recruiting front:

UConn has JUCO point guard Ron Johnson (Cowley CC, Kansas) waiting
to commit, based on Kevin Ollie's SAT results.  He's 6'0".


Also, J.B. Reafsnyder chose SU over NC State and Maryland.  He said
he chose SU because, "they give me the best opportunity to play...
personally, I feel there won't be any big-time penalties, and even
if there are, I'll still be happy at Syracuse.  I'm going there for
the academics as much as for the basketball."

Reafsnyder is SU's 1st ever 7-footer, and Boeheim thinks he'll help:
"We're probably weakest at #4 and 5 than we've been in the last 7 yrs.
We think Reafsnyder is in the hunt for some playing time.  At one
time we thought about redshirting him, but he played well at the
end of the year.  He's a hard worker.  We're excited about him;
we think he could be pretty good.  Bernie Fine is a pretty good
judge of big-man talent.  He recruited Danny Schayes, Rony Seikaly
and some other guys who weren't that well known.  He thinks this
kid is good, and can eventually play with those guys."

Reafsnyder averaged 18 ppg and 14 rbs.  His team made it to the Ohio
state tournament finals.  In the championship game he was 12-for-12
from the field, had 31 pts, 17 rebounds and 4 blocks.  He's been
named to the Ohio all-star team that will play a Michigan all-star
team later this month.


Syracuse and 7 other BE schools (everyone except SJ and Miami) are
HEAVILY recruiting star high school junior forward John Wallace
(Rochester, NY, Greece Athena HS).  He's 6'8", and projected as
either a small or power forward.  Other schools interested:  Virginia,
Wake Forest, NC State, Maryland, Kentucky, ND, Kansas and Tulane.

One talent scout says, "he's one of the best big-man prospects in the
East.  He can play at the highest level."  For the year he averaged
27.5 pts, 15 rebs, 7 blocks, 3.5 assists and 3 steals.  His HS coach
says, "he play good defense, blocks shots, doesn't foul, can run
the floor with the best of them and has great moves around the basket.
He can draw fouls and post up."

He has a great work ethic and desire to succeed.  And he's already
scored 900 on the SAT, but is going to take it over because he wants
to get an 1100.

Some compare him to a young Derrick Coleman, and "it's no coincidence
that he chose Coleman's #44 for his uniform #."

Wallace goes to the Carrier Dome quite often to see Syracuse games.
He's also attended SU's summer camp.  Rumors had it that he'd already
verbally comitted to Syracuse, but he denies it.  "I want to listen
to everybody.  I want to go to a school with good academics, and one
that has a chance to win a national championship."

    
    Joe,
    
    Where do you get this Big East Briefs paper/magazine??  Is it worth the
    money spent on it?
    
    - Ken -

>    Where do you get this Big East Briefs paper/magazine??  Is it worth the
>    money spent on it?

I suppose it depends on how much you value BE b-ball info, and if you
have other sources for the information.  I love the newsletter.  It
has the latest info (eg: when Donyell Marshall committed to UConn on
a Monday, I read about it in BE Briefs that Wednesday), and seems to
do a good job of investigative reporting (eg: checking into the SU
situation, providing updates on recruiting news, etc.).


$36	one yr
$66	2 yrs
$94	3 yrs

Big East Briefs
P.O. Box 285
Dept. 9
Middle Village, NY  11379

    Joe,
    Thanks for the pointer but have you noticed that Middle Village
    is also where Christ the King is located????
    
    ;^)
    Kev
    

    What is UConn going to do with another gurd, even in Ollie is not
    eligible?  With Ashmeade now eligible, it seems like the Huskies are
    set.
    
    Redmen Phil
    

 Maybe Calhoun wants to go for the record and make 95 substitutions in a
 final four game??

 Thanks for the updates Joe...

>                              -< Huskie Hoggers? >-
>    What is UConn going to do with another gurd, 

Another question is:  what is Calhoun going to do with all these players ?
He loses only one kid, and has 7 recruits.  I know he uses a lot of players,
but somebody isn't going to be happy next year.

I see the same thing happening to them that has happened to SU and G'town
over the years:  transfers due to not enough PT.

    
    Somebody in the Celtics notesfile said that Owens was quoted as saying
    that if he didn't get taken in the first 3 picks, he was going back to
    school.  Is this Possible, and if so, how does this work???
    
    
    Also, Joe, how often does the BE Briefs get published?
    
    - Ken -

>                       -< Can Owens go back to School? >-

Ken,

There have been proposals in the NCAA that would allow a kid to test the
pro draft waters, and if not satisfied, return to college, but I don't
think anything has passed legislatively.


>    Also, Joe, how often does the BE Briefs get published?

16 times per year.  I believe it works out to twice a month during
the season (Dec - Mar), and once a month during the off-season (Apr
- Nov).

 As long as Owens hasn't talked to an agent I don't see a violation in 
 declaring and renaging. 

 This is still America we still have some rights that Ray-Guns and Bushie
 haven't taken away....

 mike 

I don't know the rule, but I think it is preposterous to allow a kid to go back
to school if he doesn't like where he is drafted.  The kid decides that he isn't 
going to make enough money, goes back to school, and some NBA team is left high
and dry without a first round draft choice.

Even in America a contract is a contract, and the paper he signed saying that he
was coming out should be binding.

=Bob=

    Bob,
    I agree with your opinion but there's one little nit to your statement
    about contracts.
    
    A contract is a contract everywhere but in professional sports!!!
    How many cases can you think of where a_athelete refuses to honor
    his side of the deal unless a new "deal", more better than the
    lasted(tm) one is?
    
    Kev
    

 but there is no contract. what is the difference between you or me 
 completing a degree in EE going out testing the job market finding out
 that I didn't like any of the companies that wanted me and going back to 
 school for my masters?

 The team that drafted him would retain his rights till the next draft so
 they could sign him before the next draft. It's always a gamble especially
 in the NBA where there are less jobs to be had. Of course should Owens
 indeed follow through the NBA will probably come up with a new rule that
 ties his rights to that team until infinity....

 mike    

           
    What "contract"?  There is no contract.  The athlete has decided that
    he would like to be considered in a completely artificial mechanism
    constructed by the pro league, the draft, that is set up to restrict
    his movement and is not necessarily structured in his best interests.  
    The athlete is not ensured employment or compensation for his 
    consideration, and likewise he has not even agreed to be employed.
    
    Personally, I think there is a need for the drafts in the pro leagues.  
    On the other hand, the athlete should have some rights in the process,
    including the choice to retain his amateur eligibility.  The baseball
    draft, for one, allows this.  The teams?  Well, what little leverage
    this gives the amateur player will force them to compete more fairly 
    in the marketplace for his services.
    
    glenn
    

    Heard on the radio that after this year's BE-ACC challenge, the
    tournament will be cancelled.
    
    I wonder why?
    
    

 Actually Kev, it's the Big East that wants out when the TV contract runs out
 with ESPN...Probably just a tatic for my bucks....after all we are a money
 grubbing conference first and foremost....

 ;^)