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Conference 7.286::sports_91

Title:CAM::SPORTS -- Digital's Daily Sports Tabloid
Notice:This file has been archived. New notes to CAM3::SPORTS.
Moderator:CAM3::WAY
Created:Fri Dec 21 1990
Last Modified:Mon Nov 01 1993
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:290
Total number of notes:84103

8.0. "Rugby Football" by CAM::WAY (Futue te ipsum et caballum tuum) Fri Dec 21 1990 15:33

This topic is for discussion of Rugby issues.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
8.1It's not just a sport, it's a way of lifeCNTROL::MACNEALHappy Holidays, Y'all!Fri Dec 21 1990 18:5814
    As I said in the intro topic, my name is Keith MacNeal and I've been
    playing rugby for about 10 years.  My preference is Union.  I started
    playing in college with Worcester Polytechnic Institute.  After
    graduation I played for the Worcester Rugby Football Club.  While in
    Texas for a couple of years I played with the oldest club in the state
    - the Austin Rugby Football Club.  Now that I'm back in Mass. I'm back
    with Worcester.  I'm hoping to rejuvanate the Worcester Polytechnic
    Institute Old Boys (a group of WPIRFC alumni) for next summer's
    7-a-side season.
    
    On the field I'm a prop forward or a lock, although I've had an
    occasional stint at flanker, #8 and hooker.  Off the field I've been
    active at the club level as match secretary, treasurer, and president. 
    I was recently elected to the post of Newsletter editor for the WRFC.
8.2Five Nations TournamentCAM::WAYLet's Dance to the Masochism TangoFri Jan 04 1991 15:1812
Well, the Five Nations tournament starts on January 19, 1991
with  

	Wales vs England  at Cardiff
	France vs Scotland at Paris

For my money, I'm rooting for the Scots. 8^)

Does anyone know if ESPN will be carrying any  broadcasts, either
live or delayed????

'Saw
8.3ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Jan 04 1991 16:118
    'Saw -
    
    I remember looking at my TV Guide and seeing that either Sports
    Channel or NESN was carrying a game over the weekend.  I'll be watching
    it, whichever it is.  Might want to check up with some of the Wanderers
    and see which bar will be carrying it :-)
    
    A&W
8.4CAM::WAYLet's Dance to the Masochism TangoFri Jan 04 1991 17:376
Yeah.  I'll be seeing the guys next Thursday night.  We're having
the annual general meeting.

Can't wait!

'Saw
8.5CHIEFF::MACNEALPapa MacMon Jan 07 1991 15:402
    A&W, the games I've seen listed so far in the television guides have
    been Rugby LEAGUE - a whole different animal.
8.6ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Jan 07 1991 18:507
    Mac -
    
    I've been wrong before, and I was wrong this weekend too.
    
    'Twasn't there at all, at all.  :-(
    
    A&W
8.7Scotland v USA TEST MATCH, 5/18/91 in Hartford!!!!!CAM::WAYMoe knows pies in the faceFri Jan 11 1991 11:4450
Well, we had our Annual General Meeting last night, and do I have an
annoucement to make this morning!

On May 18, Hartford will host a test match between the Scotland International
Team, and the USA Eagles.  In addition, it looks to be a very good possibility
that the NERFU (New England Rugby Football Union) will be holding their
tournament in Hartford that weekend as well.  Finally, the Wanderers
are trying to make the whole thing coincide with their 25th Anniversary
celebration.

At first, NERFU did not want the tournament in Hartford, but the Wanderers
said, Okay, we'll come to your tournament and pass on the Test Match.
Suddenly, NERFU was very interested in talking about having the tournament
in Hartford.

The Test Match will be BIG.  First, it will be televised (although we're
not sure of which local cable company will pick it up) because CSI, the
company who does the Five Nations has the rights for it.   It will be
held at Dillon Stadium, there will be concessions (read that BEER) etc
etc etc....

If anyone has ever taken I91 South through Hartford and seen the big
blue onion dome of the Colt Firearm factory, Dillon Stadium is right
next door.

This is a great opportunity for the Wanderers to host this thing.  I
think it would also be a great weekend for a Sports Noters Get Together.
(From what I hear the post game party (usually held in the evening) will
be bodacious!)......

Our 25th Anniversary celebration will probably be a huge black tie
dinner dance at a local hotel, and more than likely the Hartford Old
Boys will make the arrangements for that since we'll be busy getting
the Test Match and NERFU stuff set up.


In other news, it looks like Mac and I will finally get to meet.
HWFRC plays Worcester TWICE this year.  This spring, they come to
Hartford.  In the fall we go to Worcester.....



As time gets closer to the Test Match I'll make more announcements.
Obviously, I'd love to count on all your support to try and come to
the game.  As I am on the committee for this event I probably can't
organize the Noters Test Match Get Together, however, if someone
does, I'd be available to procure tickets (no problem)....

Excited as ever (and practice starts in *2* weeks!)
'Saw
8.8Scotland Tour of U.S.CNTROL::MACNEALPapa MacFri Jan 11 1991 13:129
    Here is the information I have been able to find on the upcoming
    Scotland tour of the U.S.
    
    This is per "Rugby"'s calendar issue:
    
    May 11  U.S. Eagles 			location to be announced
    May 14  Rugby East (Territorial side) 	New York, NY
    May 18  U.S. Eagles				Hartford, CT
    
8.9CAM::WAYMoe knows pies in the faceFri Jan 11 1991 13:145
Japan is also touring this year, another World Cup prep.

However, they are touring the western half of the US....

'Saw
8.10ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Jan 11 1991 13:459
    I'll come, I'll come!!!
    
    This sounds terrific.
    
    I might even let my arm be twisted into organizing a Noters conflab
    around this thing :-).  (I may not play anything, but I do great
    fan support.)
    
    A&W
8.12QUASER::JOHNSTONLegitimateSportingPurpose?E.S.A.D.!Fri Jan 11 1991 18:1312
8.13MCIS1::DHAMELClothes are a form of censorshipFri Jan 11 1991 18:293
    
    Does the ear tape have to match the cumberbund?
    
8.15CAM::WAYMoe knows pies in the faceFri Jan 11 1991 18:3510
Oh no.  No tape allowed at the dance.  Only black eyes or stitches...8^)

And since I'm making the switch to prop this season, my consumption
of tape will go way down.  All I need it for now (unless I happen to
play some games at 2nd row) is taping up my ring and little fingers
together.  That's important because you can really mess up your little
fingers if you happen to catch them in a jersey and get them all 
wrenched up...

'Saw
8.16Pass the sour KrautNEMAIL::LEARYMFri Jan 11 1991 19:285
    Hmm.
    Dickstah, Cumberbund?  Does that also resemble a German cuke?
    
    MikeL
     
8.17QUASER::JOHNSTONLegitimateSportingPurpose?E.S.A.D.!Fri Jan 11 1991 19:487
THAT'S EVEN BETTER, HAWK!!

WITH THEIR CUMBERBUNDS WRAPPED AROUND THEIR HAIDS!!


HAHAHAHA
Mike JN (SIDJNOTY)
8.185 Nations Championship starts 1/19CHIEFF::MACNEALPapa MacMon Jan 14 1991 18:578
    The Five Nations tournament starts this weekend with games in Paris,
    France and Cardiff, Wales.  The Welsh will be hosting the English while
    the French host the Scots.  Wales have never lost to England at home. 
    Looking at the play of both teams over the last few months, this may be
    the year that England breaks the Cardiff curse.
    
    On a more somber note, France and Wales have announced that should war
    break out in the Persian Gulf, the two matches will be postponed.
8.19CAM::WAYBo don't know which one's VanilliTue Jan 15 1991 11:3213
Ah, the Scarlet of Wales against the White (with 15 Petalled Rose)
of England.  Should be a GREAT game.

Scotland (they of the navy blue with Thistle) are favored to win it
all, or so I've heard.

France has come on strong recently, and that leaves only Ireland.
Ireland will be playing without their Captain (who plays lock) who
is out for neck surgery....

My Pick: Scotland....

'Saw
8.20Rugby stuff for JanuaryCAM::WAYBo don't know which one's VanilliWed Jan 16 1991 12:4623
8.21CHIEFF::MACNEALPapa MacWed Jan 16 1991 14:154
    According to replies in the Rugby conference (which are based on
    reports published in European papers), the games in Paris and and
    Cardiff will take place as scheduled on the 18th regardless of the Gulf
    situation.
8.23since I'm in the area ;-)PNO::HEISERArmageddon AppetiteWed Jan 16 1991 16:146
>	26    All-Arizona Tournament		tba
    
    post the details on this when you get them.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike
8.24CAM::WAYBo don't know which one's VanilliWed Jan 16 1991 17:5621
8.25CAM::WAYBo don't know which one's VanilliWed Jan 16 1991 17:5918
re Hawk:

	Nope, the women, (only one month -- November) are wearing
	regulard rugby outfits.  Several have their ears taped.

	Unfortunately (and please pardon my chauvinistic comment)
	these are not the most lovely lady ruggers I've ever seen,
	even though they are the Lady Eagles.

	Probably the cutest lady ruggers I've seen in a while are
	to be found in the October issue of the Lands End catalog.
	Unfortunately, they were not captione with names as had been
	the two US Eagles who appeared in the same issue.  The only
	reason I knew they were ruggers was because my brother's friend
	called me up and told me she'd played against several of them...

hth,
'Saw
8.27This reply is TOTALLY tongue-in-cheek...CAM::WAYBo don't know which one's VanilliWed Jan 16 1991 18:2512
Not so fast Hawk...

I'd better take you to a women's game sometime...[many, many smilies!]

Long before I got involved with rugby, I did meet a girl who played
in college, and we went out a couple of times.  Very lovely, very
pretty girl.  You could tell she'd seen the light, and knew in her
heart of hearts that rugby is truly a way of life....

She must've been a back ;^)

'Saw
8.28CAM::WAYBo don't know which one's VanilliMon Jan 21 1991 15:4713
First results from the Five Nations Tournament.


France  15	Scotland 9
England 25	Wales    6


France beating Scotland was a BIG upset....  Ireland has not played
yet.

Any word on when we might (I hope) see these matches on TV?

'Saw
8.29YUPPY::STRAGEDNostalgia..Its not what it used to beTue Jan 22 1991 09:229
    'saw,
    
    If France beating Scotland was a BIG upset, what would you call England
    beating Wales in Cardiff????  England had not won in Wales since 1963!!
    
    PJ
    
    
    PS  See Soccer Note for news about Neville Southall!!
8.30CAM::WAYGo get yourself some cheap sunglassesTue Jan 22 1991 12:0111
8.31CAM::WAYWho more than self, their country lovedTue Jan 22 1991 12:3414
Well, I was going over our spring schedule last night, and it seems
that we have a chance to avenge our loss in the NE tournament.

We'll be playing Old Blue RFC.  I wonder if we can beat the boys
from the Steroid Farm this time?  

'Saw

PS  I say they come from the steroid farm because I've never seen a
    bigger bunch of guys.

    And oh yeah, fwiw, they won the Northeast tournament.  Then
    they lost in Orlando.  If my information is correct, Washington
    is yet again representing the EAST in the final four....
8.32CHIEFF::MACNEALPapa MacTue Jan 22 1991 18:049
8.33This weekend's 5 Nations gamesCNTROL::MACNEALPapa MacTue Jan 29 1991 12:314
    Five Nations Tournament match-ups for 2/2/91
    
    Scotland vs. Wales		Edinburgh, Scotland
    Ireland vs. France		Dublin, Ireland
8.34CAM::WAYWho more than self, their country lovedTue Jan 29 1991 17:2711
8.35Annihilate their scrum - A forward's dream!CAM::WAYWho more than self, their country lovedTue Jan 29 1991 18:3821
8.36Hope this Helps :-)ISLNDS::WASKOMTue Jan 29 1991 19:0117
    As part of my continuing effort to make rugby semi-clear to the
    totally clueless :-)..... (and I don't guarantee these match the
    real rules - just what it looks like to the casual observer)
    
    A ruck happens when an offensive player gets tackled, or the ball
    hits the deck, and neither team has clear possession.  The forwards
    from both teams run over, get in a big bunch (good guys on one side,
    bad guys on the other), and have to walk over
    the ball before a guy from their side can pick it up.  The offensive
    player gets walked over, as well.  If no progress is made, the ref
    can whistle up a scrum, which is a more organized way of accomplishing
    the same thing.  The term "ruck over" comes from the need to move
    over the ball, causing it to come out the "back" of the pack of
    big, burly types shoving at each other.  "Back" is relative to which
    side is winning the shoving match.
    
    A&W
8.37CAM::WAYWho more than self, their country lovedTue Jan 29 1991 19:5161
>    A ruck happens when an offensive player gets tackled, or the ball
>    hits the deck, and neither team has clear possession.  The forwards
>    from both teams run over, get in a big bunch (good guys on one side,
>    bad guys on the other), and have to walk over
>    the ball before a guy from their side can pick it up.  The offensive
>    player gets walked over, as well.  


When things are working well (i.e. the forwards are following up the
play very closely) a good ruck is almost always won by the offensive
team, and is a good momentum carrying weapon.

The ball carrier is tackled.  Because he is NOT allowed to play the
ball on the ground, he must release it.  Every player, when tackled,
tries his damndest to turn back towards his team, keeping his body
between the ball and the defenders.

If a ruck forms (two guys, bound, over the ball) the defenders CANNOT
reach over and pick up the ball.  As the rest of the forwards come
in to join (again must be bound) they meet the forwards from the defenders,
who are trying to push the whole shooting match back, until the ball
comes out their side.

Again, assuming the offensive team is overpowering, the guy who gets the
worst of it is the defender who originally tackled the ball carrier.
I mean, let's say I'm tackled.  The rest of my team will step OVER me,
usually right onto the defender.....


>If no progress is made, the ref
>    can whistle up a scrum, which is a more organized way of accomplishing
>    the same thing.  

Forwards love to scrum.  Watch two packs must before they come together.
Look at the eyes of the guys in the front row.  I guarantee you that
no lineman in the NFL has more fire in his eyes than a tighthead prop
about to eat up the opposing hooker...


>The term "ruck over" comes from the need to move
>    over the ball, causing it to come out the "back" of the pack of
>    big, burly types shoving at each other.  

Listen for the scrum half, who's kind of the quarterback, yelling
"Ruck over" or "Ruck, ruck, ruck"....  He won't always call it, 
but a lot of times the scrum half will try to direct the forwards and
backs on what to do....

My favorite though, is when the scrum half gets tackled and is under
the ruck.  You'll hear the fly half yelling "Scrum half, scrum half",
because someone has to watch for the ball to come out of the ruck and
pass it to the fly half.  Most times, it'll be a forward late to the
ruck, and he'll function as a scrum half until the ruck is won and the
ball passed out....

Tomorrow, we talk about mauling 8^)

'Saw

PS  Mac'll probably most this whole thing to the rugby topic 8^)

8.38COMET::WADEBring us a shrubbery........Wed Jan 30 1991 17:2713
    
    	Whew!  That's what I get for asking!
    
    	Totally clueless eh?  That's me ayup!  I know nothing and
    	can prove it :^)
    
    	Thanks for explaining *ruck*.  All these rugby terms (hooker,
    	tight five guy, scrum, etc...) and so little time for word
    	association games ;^)
    
    	Claybroon
    
    	ps  Can't wait to hear what a *mauling* is!
8.39ITASCA::SHAUGHNESSYJust what did N. Fouquet know?Wed Jan 30 1991 17:543
    Hmmm... Sounds to mie like one very rucked up, scrummy sport.
    
    MrT
8.40CAM::WAYWho more than self, their country lovedFri Feb 01 1991 11:3586
First, some Rugby-East Results: (from the Northeast Tournament on...)


	Old Blue   21
	Hartford   17
                          Old Blue 13    -------> to Eastern Finals
			  Mystic   12
	Mystic     48
	Albany      0


Eastern Finals


	Atlanta     9
	Washington 17
                          Washington 25
                          Life       22 (2 OT)

	Old Blue   10
        Life	   23



That's the third time in four years Washington has captured the Eastern
Region title.....



Now to Brag:


Rugby's National Rankings:



	Local Top Five

	Rugby-East New England
        ----------------------
	1. Mystic River
	2. Providence
	3. Boston
	4. HARTFORD WANDERERS
	5. Beacon Hill

I thought we'd be third, since we did beat Boston....


	Territorial Top 10
        East
        --------------------
	1. Washington
	2. Life Chiropractic
	3. Atlanta Renegades
	4. Philly/Whitemarsh
	5. Old Blue
	6. Potomac AC
	7. Mystic River
	8. Bethlehem
	9. Boca Raton
	9. Boston
	9. HARTFORD


Not a bad season, all in all....



For Mac

	Western RFU
	Texas
        ------------
	1. Dallas Harlequins
	2. Houston
	3. Our Gang
	4. AUSTIN
	4. Dallas
	4. Houston
	4. Shreveport



'Saw

8.41Div II & Women's Rugby East ChampsCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 01 1991 11:4816
    In other news, Amoskeag RFC (from Manchester, NH) was the Rugby East
    Division II champ.  Beantown captured the Women's Rugby East title.
    
    I wish someone would put a little consistency in the National Rankings. 
    It's worse than the AP poll ;^).
    
    Case in point:  Providence finishes ahead of Boston and Hartford in the
    New England rankings and isn't listed in the Rugby East rankings
    although Boston and Hartford are.  A similar case happened last year
    when Dallas didn't even make the Texas top 5, yet made the Western top
    10.
    
    I'm surprised at the New England rankings given that Hartford finished
    ahead of both Boston and Providence in the regular season.
    In other news, Amoskeag RFC (from Manchester, NH) was the Rugby East
    Division II champ.  Beantown captured the Women's Rugby East title.
8.42CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfFri Feb 01 1991 12:1213
We have to play Amoskeag this fall, as they were promoted to Division
I and Old Gold was demoted.  (Too bad, I had my best hits against Old
Gold!)

When I told my brother about Amoskeag, he informed me that the town's
claim to fame was that they made fire trucks, back in the days of
horse drawn pumpers....

I was suprised at Hartford's ranking too, especially since we did
play Old Blue fairly strongly in the NE tourney, and the best Mystic River
could do against us was a 3-3 tie.....

'Saw
8.43WRFC Informational MeetingCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 01 1991 16:5726
    
                       Are you tired of sitting at home?
    
                        Getting those mid-winter blahs?
    
                    Looking for Action, Adventure, and Travel?
    
            Come meet the Worcester Rugby Football Club at Pippen's.  
    
                             Your life may change!
    
    
                Worcester Rugby Football Club informational meeting.
    
                          Thursday, February 7, 1991
    
                   Pippen's - 455 Park Ave. Worcester, MA
    
                                  7-9 pm
    
    The WRFC fields 3 sides plus an over-35 side.  Worcester has hosted
    teams from the UK and Ireland.  The WRFC has visited England, Ireland,
    Wales, and Scotland.  Plans are under way for a tour in 1992.
    
    Contact Keith MacNeal at CNTROL::MACNEAL for more info.
    
8.44CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfFri Feb 01 1991 17:3210
Mac....

You forgot to mention the biggest drawing card.  WRFC plays the Wanderers
twice in 1991.  That means anyone who joins would have two more than
ample opportunities to knock the Chainsaw on his butt!


(Hope you get some new members.  Good luck)

'Saw
8.45ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Feb 01 1991 18:525
    Mac -
    
    Have you guys got any openings for loyal fans and supporters?
    
    A&W
8.46Will post WRFC schedule at a later dateCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 01 1991 20:055
    You betcha, A&W.  I'll post a schedule a couple of weeks before the
    season starts.  All of the WRFC home games are played at Quinsigamond
    State Park on Lake Ave. in Worcester, MA.  We will be playing in
    Hartford, in Boston, and at Charles River (consecutively at that - I'd
    like to wring our schedule maker's neck ;^) ).
8.47Hmmmmm, Iza wondering - REALLY Mebbe???CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Sat Feb 02 1991 01:3415
    Mac,
    	What about the pain factor?
    
    	After all, I'm ~5'5", 125 (ha!)lbs, fulla fight, 39+ years on
    this planet.
    
    Am I dead meat on the field or should I just look for nudging against
    A&W if I wanna see my next BD?
    
    (no offense intended A&W)
    
    Kev_who's_got_some_free_time_since_school's_ended
    (provided my SO + little kid say's "no Prob"!)?
    
    
8.48YUPPY::STRAGEDToto...this sure ain't Kansas!!Sun Feb 03 1991 23:4435
    News from across the Pond for all Rugby Enthusiasts....
    
    	This weekend's scores:
    
    		SCOTLAND  32	WALES  12
    
    		IRELAND  13	FRANCE  21
    
    
    	5 Nations Championships Table
    
    			P	W	L	F	A	Pts
    	FRANCE		2	2	0	36	22	4
    	ENGLAND		1	1	0	25	6	2
    	SCOTALND	2	1	1	41	27	2
    	IRELAND		1	0	1	13	21	0
    	WALES		2	0	2	18	57	0
    
    
    	Next fixtures
    
    	Feb 16th	England v Scotland
    			Wales v Ireland
    
    	Mar 2nd		France v Wales
    			Ireland v England
    
    	Mar 16th	England v France
    			Scotalnd v Ireland
    
    Enjoy,
    PJ
    
    PS  'saw...check out the soccer scores...Arsenal loses their unbeaten
    record BUT remain top of Division One!!!!  The Reds are slipping!!
8.49CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfMon Feb 04 1991 11:3316
>    
>    	After all, I'm ~5'5", 125 (ha!)lbs, fulla fight, 39+ years on
>    this planet.

Kev...

If you've got anything remotely resembling speed, you sound like a scrum
half (or even a wing).

We've got a wing who's 5'8", 150, and I'd rather tackle any one of the
huge guys on the field than him, because when I tackle him, it's like
tackling this bag full of pointy things!  

'Saw    
    

8.50CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfMon Feb 04 1991 11:3410
Mac --

Don't despair.  Our first three games are all away, all in the
New York City area.  

Hartford won't let us use our field until April....

Be good to see ya!

'Saw
8.51Hmmmm, if I'm not catched, no pain?CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Mon Feb 04 1991 11:4011
    'Saw
    
    A looong time ago, in a land far away....
    
    10.2 - 100yd
    5.5  -  50yd
    
    As a bloke w/ SWMD, perhaps not too shabby??? ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.52CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfMon Feb 04 1991 11:5118
Go for it Kev.

And Mac could tell you if Worcester has an Old Boys team.  Hartford
has the HoBos (Hartford Old Boys) composed mainly of ex-Wanderers, all
over 35.  

Of course, we still have a few stalwarts on HWRFC who are over 35.
Doc Lyons is our oldest at 45, he's a prop.  But, there's Tony "Boneman"
Foran, who's 41, and one of our B side scrum-halfs is 40....

Go for it.


Me, I don't have speed to save my life.  That's why I'm a tight five 
forward 8^)

'Saw    

8.53Rugby - There is something for everyoneCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Feb 04 1991 12:0817
    Kev,
    
    I'm sure there would be a place for you on the field.  There is quite
    an assortment of physiques on a rugby team.  If you have speed and/or
    moves, you can be a wing like 'Saw said.  If you aren't that fast, but
    are tough then you could be a natural hooker.
    
    Worcester does have an over 35 team - the Faded Blacks (WRFC team color
    is black).  They play about 6 games a year on Sunday afternoons.  Some
    of them come out for regular training (at least a couple before that
    first Sunday).
    
    As for the family, bring them along.  We could always use more fans. 
    Quite a few families show up for the home games.  Quinsigamond State
    Park is a nice place to spend an afternoon.  When I was in Austin I was
    fortunate enough to play for a club that owned their own land.  This
    really encouraged players to bring their families out for the day.
8.54Go for it Kev, you'll never regret it...CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfMon Feb 04 1991 12:2837
>    If you aren't that fast, but
>    are tough then you could be a natural hooker.
    
Gee, forgot all about that....

And Kev, it doesn't really hurt all that much.  My experience has been
that I get SO caught up in the game, I never feel that much.  About the
only thing I ever feel is me sucking wind.

The next day however, you do feel it sometimes.  Early on in the season,
Sundays would be hell.  My legs would be sore, my shoulders would be
sore.  I'd force myself to go out for a short run, just so my legs would
be able to move for Tuesday night's practice.

But, later in the season, as I started to get into better shape, Sunday's
became a great day.  Granted, it was a RELAXED day, but I wasn't as sore.

As to hits in the game, again, you really don't feel it unless you get
REALLY creamed.  

My advice would be give it a try.  If Worcester is ANYTHING like the
Wanderers (and I'd bet my paycheck they are) you'll be made to feel welcome,
and one or two of the players will tend to take you under their wing and
help you out.

My very first game, Pete Velkojski (our new vice captain) played 8man
in the first half.  He'd already played A side second row, but he helped
round out our side, and he literally was my shepherd.   I knew what to
do in the scrum and lineouts, but the rest of the game still was hazy.
He just said "follow me, and do what I do, and above all, HAVE FUN".

I've NEVER felt anything as fun as that first game.  I felt like I'd
conquored so many things, and found out so much about myself.

Really, give it a try (no pun intended).  You won't regret it....

'Saw
8.55deen to wonk - would I need a will too??CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Mon Feb 04 1991 13:3114
    <set mode=mulling over getting mauled>
    
    'Saw,
    	In the lasted(tm) edition of ::Sports, when you were first getting
    into ruck'n, you posted a-explaination of the rules and explained
    the game.  I read it with passing interest but have promptly forgotten
    everything but electrician's tape being a "gotta have" if one desires
    to maintain possession to one's auditory peripherals  ;^)
    
    	Any chance you still have a copy of that note?  Xaveria
    notwithstanding, what is a "natural hooker"? (Dickster, have a BLAST!)
    
    Kev
    
8.56RUGBYRIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOLearn to throw a BoomerangMon Feb 04 1991 13:3812
    R  is for Rugged, of that we are sure
    
    U  is for undulating, we do it with ease
    
    G  is for Gals, they flock by the dozens
    
    B  is for buns, tight in the scrum
    
    Y  is for youthful, our mindset is that
    
    
    
8.57ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Feb 04 1991 13:5722
    Kev -
    
    1st - I ain't offended.  Hopefully we'll meet someday at the side
    of a pitch (rugby-speak for the field).
    
    2nd - My immediate reaction was "sounds like a hooker in the making
    to me".

    3rd - In the interests of bringing this wonderful sport to the SPORTS
    masses, I have every intention of continuing the "Rugby Rules for
    the Completely Clueless".  These are guaranteed to be how it appears
    from the sidelines, not necessarily what the laws (rugby-speak for
    the rules) say.  See the note on "rucks" in this string for an example.
    Hopefully 'Saw still has his note, too, as it was excellent.
    
    4th - If you seriously take up this game as one of the old-timers
    in the file (I'm an old-timer too) I strongly recommend that you
    have a waterbed.  We got one when my ex, at age 25, couldn't get
    out of our regular bed the day after a game, and it made all the
    difference in the world.  Like, he could walk the next day. :-)
    
    A&W
8.58CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfMon Feb 04 1991 14:0338
To kind of go along with that JD, there's that famous T-shirt, showing
an old time rugby team posing as if for a team photo.  The caption
is "Chicks dig us cause we play rugby!"


Kev,

I've got the rule info that Mac sent me.  I'll mail it to you.


The hooker is the man in the middle of the front row of the scrum.
His responsibility is to "hook" the ball back through the scrum,
to the scrum half.  He does this by healing the ball.

Because he is sandwiched between the two props, he is by nature a 
small man (typically the smallest on the field).  While he cannot
by rule be totally supported by the props (he must have weight on one
foot), that's where the props get their name from -- they prop the
hooker.

The hooker also throws the ball in on line outs, so a little of Joe
Montana's arm wouldn't hurt either.

Re electrical tape:

You only need this is you're a forward.  If you end up playing wing,
you won't need it.  Backs are the pretty boys of rugby.  While the
15 members of the team are tighter than a street gang, there is a natural
rivalry between forwards and backs.  Forwards think backs are the pretty
boys who stand around waiting for us to get them the ball.  Backs think
forwards are kind of all brawn, no brains....   But, just let one
opponent mess with one of my backs and see what happens 8^)

Forwards tend to mess up their ears in scrums and rucks, backs tend to
do a lot of open field work....

I'll get that stuff in the mail soon,
'Saw
8.59MCIS1::DHAMELAll stressed up &amp; no one to chokeMon Feb 04 1991 14:405
    
    >  He does this by healing the ball.
                  
    I thought you couldn't lay your hands on the ball in a scrum.
    
8.60CAM::WAYDEC needs a man like SchwarzkopfMon Feb 04 1991 15:1812
8.61Ireland/France Match ReportAGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Feb 05 1991 18:54281
8.62More RRCC..ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Feb 11 1991 13:0842
         Rugby Rules for the Completely Clueless (con'td)
         
         
         *REAL* basic.  Like "Let's start at the very beginning....."
         
         Rugby fields in the US look a lot like football fields.  (That's 
         'cause most of the time that's what they are.)  Sometimes they 
         look like soccer fields, but not often.  The ground where the game 
         is played is called the "pitch".  The out-of-bounds lines is 
         called the "touch line".  Everything inside the line is "in 
         touch".  Everything outside the line is "out of touch".
         
         Two opposing groups of guys meet on the pitch.  Each group is 
         called a "side".  This is not the same as a team.  A team is 
         everyone who wears the colors of their team, and plays or 
         practices as a group.  Thus, the Hartford Wanderers are a team, 
         which fields (generally) three sides -- of varying levels of 
         skill.  In some regions (not New England) a team may sponsor youth 
         sides, developmental sides, their main side and an "old boys" or 
         over-30's side.
         
         The game is played with a ball which looks like a football on 
         steroids.  It's bigger and rounder than a football.  The ball is 
         called "the ball".
         
         The object of the game is for your side to score more points than 
         the other side.  You score points 3 ways.  You can touch the ball 
         down in the end-zone, which gives you 4 points.  As Mac said, this 
         is a "try".  After a try, you can attempt a "conversion", worth 
         two points, gotten by kicking the ball through the goal posts from 
         a point perpendicular to where the try was scored.  (Thus, the 
         closer to the middle of the field when scoring a try, the better.  
         With luck, this can mean a guy running around in the end zone 
         getting the ball into better position before touching it down.)  
         The third way to get a score is by a free kick through the 
         uprights from anywhere on the field, which gains you 3 points.
         
         Scoring at the after party doesn't count :-)
         
         A&W
         

8.632/16 Five Nations GamesCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Feb 11 1991 19:524
    Five Nations matches on tap for this weekend:
    
    England vs. Scotland	Twickenham, England
    Wales vs. Ireland		Cardiff, Wales
8.64CAM::WAYG Troop 2/3 ACR, #1 Fan...Wed Feb 13 1991 11:4515
A word to the wise:

	If you're a slightly out of shape forward, and your
	new captain is a very in shape wing, DON'T get paired
	with him for practice!

Other than that practice went well last night.  It was damn cold,
so actually my lungs hurt worse today than any other body parts.

Hellacious hour long workout, but after getting out of shape over
the offseason, I deserved it.....

Should be an interesting season....

'Saw
8.65how many ways to clear an airway? (snicker)CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Wed Feb 13 1991 23:2314
    Frank,
    	Although it has been a long time since my NY certification
    was valid, I just wanted you to know that as a former M.E.T.
    I offer my services for splinting, bandaging, and CRT (BUT, 
    you gotta find someone else to do the mouth-to-mouth unless
    your real name is spelled F-R-A-N-C-E-S) until you get in shape!
    					^
    					|- (and are geneticaly proper too)
    
    
    GTOHAA,
    
    Kev
    
8.66CAM::WAYG Troop 2/3 ACR, #1 Fan...Thu Feb 14 1991 11:1920
8.67MCIS1::DHAMELI have a heart on todayThu Feb 14 1991 14:197
    
    'Saw, we all know you sweat while ice fishing, fer cripes sake.
    
    Why's that?
    
    Dickstah
    
8.68;-)PNO::HEISERwhere roses growThu Feb 14 1991 14:271
    nice p_n dickstah!
8.69CAM::WAYThe Axe-masterThu Feb 14 1991 14:5221
>    'Saw, we all know you sweat while ice fishing, fer cripes sake.
>    
>    Why's that?
    
It's all that nose candy I bring along wif me....

Seriously, I've always sweat a lot when it's hot out, or when under
exertion.  I don't know why.  I do know that I've never had heat stroke,
so my body certainly is cooling itself off okay.

I've just never been a quick acclimitizer between hot and cold in
terms of exertion.  I can deal with going from a hot environment to
a cool one fairly quickly.  Play in the fall was no problem if it
suddenly got cold.

It's the opposite.  My performance level is affected by a sudden increase
in the air temperature.  Normally, as the seasons warm up, I transition
easily.  Doing something like the Bahamas will take a lot of willpower....

'Saw    

8.71'Saw takes a squeegee wif' him on his dates...AXIS::ROBICHAUDThe Wit And Wisdom Of Joe Bob BriggsThu Feb 14 1991 15:111
    
8.72CAM::WAYThe Axe-masterThu Feb 14 1991 17:0213
I don't sweat on dates.  Even when they're hot.  The Chainsaw is always
cool in those situations.  

I just put on my tuxedo, pull out some Colt .45 Malt Liquor, and 
it's smoooooth sailing from there on....


I do tend to sweat though when someone's butt cheeks are pressed up
to mine in a scrum.....(in case Bob was wondering ;^))

'Saw
    

8.73MCIS1::DHAMELI have a heart on todayThu Feb 14 1991 19:239
    
    >I just put on my tuxedo, pull out some Colt .45 Malt Liquor, and 
    
    You'll find Brut, or English Leather, or a conventional after shave or
    cologne much more effective, and masks the sweat smell much better,
    too. ;^)
    
    Dickstah
    
8.74ISLNDS::WASKOMThu Feb 14 1991 19:265
    Dicksta --
    
    You obviously don't understand what turns on us rugby groupies :-)
    
    A&W    
8.76It's raining ruggers....CAM::WAYThe Axe-masterFri Feb 15 1991 12:3039
8.777221::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Feb 15 1991 12:514
    Unfortunately, there ain't never been much interest in statisticians
    and trainers.  I guess I'll go back to being a dweeb.  :-(
    
    John
8.78CAM::WAYThe Axe-masterFri Feb 15 1991 13:1236
>    Unfortunately, there ain't never been much interest in statisticians
>    and trainers.  I guess I'll go back to being a dweeb.  :-(
    
Au Contraire, mon frere....

You just have to become a statistician for a rugby team (and yeah, they
do have stats....)

See, that puts you on the sidelines, right?  Now, there's a lot of wimmins
on the sideline, and they aren't ALL watching us rugger types.  So,
see, you've got proximity in your corner, first off.

Then, if you were the trainer, when a rugger goes down, and someone
calls "a minute please, sir" then you might have to go out and see
if the guy is okay or bring some water out...  While you're doing
that all them wimmins on the sidelines are watching you...  Guaranteed
one of them is getting breathless over that... really!

Then, finally, at the drinkup after the game, everyone is all up and
happy, and there's lots of happy wimmins, and you just buy one of the
free beers and offer it to one of the wimmins, and nexted thing you
know, you're explaining just how difficult being the statistician is,
especially if you're the trainer at the same time.

While you're doing that one of two things will happen.  Either one
of the ruggers will come over and bust on you in from of the wimmins
(they bust on you because they like you) or one of the ruggers comes
over and says how the team would really cease to function without
you....

Before you know it, the wimmins is believing you're a god(tm) or close
to it, and you're on easy street....

No problem.....

'Saw
8.80ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Feb 15 1991 14:1014
    John -
    
    When you're feeling down about the odds of statistician-types, just
    remember.....
    
    You're the guy who came with one lovely and left with another at
    last year's Patriots Day game.
    
    You were one of 2 guys in a group of 6 Sportsters at the Hockey
    Night in Hartford
    
       :-)
    
    A&W
8.81CAM::WAYThe Axe-masterFri Feb 15 1991 14:1814
8.827221::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Feb 15 1991 15:122
    Just wait until y'all see what I have in mind for Patriots Day this
    year ...
8.83Is there no other manly sport?NEMAIL::LEARYMFri Feb 15 1991 15:3912
    Hey guys n gals,
    	I heard that the most common injury sustained by ruggers was 
    a separated shoulder. Caused no doubt by constant attempts to 
    pat oneselves on the back at every opportunity. Sheesh.
    
    Many smileys,
    
    MikeL who wouldn't want to mess wif a rugger unless he had a
    hockey stick in hand
    
    
    
8.84SHIRE::ELLISMon Feb 18 1991 07:5016
'Saw

'Saw a rip-snorter of a match on Saturday - 21-21 between the Welsh and the
Irish.

My favourite play was the blocked kick (do we call it a kick when the player
just does a quick kick from anywhere?) followed by a runback by the Irish.

Real see'Saw of a battle - the lead must have changed hands four times near 
the end.

BTW, either it was the 'shrooms or my holidays or something, but could we have
(again?) a brief summary of how it works - scrums, throw-ins, when play is
stopped when a player is tackled, how many points for what, etc..

thanks, rick
8.85CAM::WAYToo much forking, too many child processes!Mon Feb 18 1991 11:0822
8.86The Official Mac Explanation...CAM::WAYToo much forking, too many child processes!Mon Feb 18 1991 11:09194
8.87wrong team won, sorrySHIRE::ELLISMon Feb 18 1991 12:159
>>Who won the England-Scotland match?

My official Scots Sporting Reporter says England, something like 21-12.

Thanks for .86.  Am I then to understand that a tackle only slows down play
instead of stopping it and the play would only be actually stopped in the
event of a foul (or if the ball went out of bounds?).

thanks, rick
8.88CAM::WAYToo much forking, too many child processes!Mon Feb 18 1991 13:2530
8.89CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Feb 18 1991 15:007
8.90CAM::WAYToo much forking, too many child processes!Mon Feb 18 1991 15:2912
>    I don't know, 'Saw.  Both England and France are undefeated.  They will
>    face each other in Twickenham on March 16.  This game will probably be
>    for all the marbles.  Being at home, I think England has the inside
>    track, but England has dissapointed in the past.

Yeah, I forgot about the English being undefeated...

If Scotland doesn't do well in the Five Nations, it'll mean that they'll
be looking to beat up on the Eagles in May to take out their frustrations 8^)

'Saw

8.91World Cup Drug testingCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Feb 18 1991 17:297
    'Saw mentioned something about drug testing in rugby.  Here is some
    more info as I remember it.
    
    Random drug testing was done during the 1987 World Cup.  No incidences
    of drug usage were detected.  Random testing will be in place for the
    1991 World Cup.  If drug usage is found, said player will be suspended
    and further tests will be performed on other players from that team.
8.92There's A Scrum Near YouCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Feb 20 1991 15:27270
8.93CAM::WAYThe time you won your town the raceWed Feb 20 1991 19:287
Mac,

That was superb.  

Playing rugby is like belonging to the world's biggest fraternity....8^)

'Saw
8.94Give blood WITH rugbyCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Feb 25 1991 15:127
    The Worcester Rugby Football Club is sponsoring a blood donor night
    this Wednesday (2/27) at the Red Cross office on Park Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Donor hours are 6:30-8:30 pm.
    
    With the ground war underway, an increased demand for blood supplies is
    expected.  If you can, please come by on Wednesday night.  Tell them
    the WRFC sent you.
8.95WORCESTER RFC SPRING 1991 SCHEDULECHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Feb 26 1991 17:2421
March	16	Washington Irish Tournament	Washington, D.C.
	23	New Haven Old Black RFC		Home
	30	Mad River (VT) & Berkshire	Home
April	 4	Stratford-upon-Avon (England)	Home - 5:00 pm
	 6	Old Gold RFC			Home
	13	Schenectady RFC			Schenectady, NY
	20	Charles River RFC		Away
	27	Hartford RFC			Hartford, CT
May	 4	Boston RFC			Boston, MA
	11	Malvern RFC (England)		Home
	18	New England Tournament		TBA
June     1	Homecoming (Alumni Game)	Home
	 6	Burlington RFC (VT)		Home

All home games are played at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave. in 
Worcester, MA.  Games begin at 1 pm unless otherwise noted.

The WRFC fields 3 sides plus an over-35 side.  Contact Keith MacNeal at 
CNTROL::MACNEAL for more info.
    
8.96CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesWed Feb 27 1991 18:4826
Well, the first rugby game for me will be at 3pm, Saturday, March 9,
in the Bahamas.  You're all welcome to attend....

Getting in better shape.  Practice is much less like a medieval torture
session now, and a lot more like a regular "interrogation" by a
back country southern sheriff.

Of course, we're still practicing in a parking lot, beseeching our
new captain to get a gym.  But then, the guys are saying that we're
still waiting for the gym they promised to get LAST spring....8^)

Actually, last night wasn't bad.  We're stretching out on the cold
pavement, snow falling down around us, and our Vice Captain,
Pete the Dick, yells out "I'm gonna tell my kid when he gets older
that when I was his age, I was practicing rugby out in a parking
lot in the snow".  Someone from the back yelled out "Yeah, barefoot",
and another voice chimed in "Yeah, without gloves".....

The best was when someone yelled "Bet Boston isn't doing this", referring
to our arch rivals.

At any rate, the misery was better for the company.

First field practice this Saturday....

'Saw
8.97MCIS1::DHAMELSurrender Dorothy and SaddamWed Feb 27 1991 18:577
    
    Need an equipment manager 'Saw.  Somebody's got to take care of the
    'lectric tape and the gatorade.  I'll do it in exchange for passage to
    them Bahamian Islands.
    
    Dickstah
    
8.99CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesWed Feb 27 1991 19:4513
8.100I remember those parking lot practicesCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Feb 27 1991 20:1010
    Worcester got off to a late start finding a gym.  The only available
    time is Friday nights.  Needless to say, my wife doesn't appreciate
    rugby practice cutting into weekend time this early in the season.
    
    So far we've been able to supplement the indoor session by having
    practices on the astroturf at a local college.  It's working out real
    well so far - it's not quite as hard as a parking lot and noone has
    evicted us yet.  We had some fun in the snow last night.  Not as much
    fun as a couple of weeks ago in the snow - too many people showed up
    last night for us to goof off and play "touch" rugby.
8.101CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesThu Feb 28 1991 11:1711
Yeah, we finally had enough the other evening for me to have enough
time between ball handling sprints to recover.

With the weight I put on over the winter (yuk) and the hardness of
the lot, my ankles are taking a beating.  Thank God the knees haven't
started acting up too.

But I can hear that warm air and Bahamian salt water calling me to
it's healing powers....(and man, don't I need a vacation!)....

'Saw
8.102JURAN::MCKAYFri Mar 01 1991 03:184
    Frank is Johnny D still going on the trip?  I haven't seen him in
    a while?
    
    jimbo
8.103CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesFri Mar 01 1991 11:4719
8.104RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOWest Regional, I be there!Fri Mar 01 1991 14:178
    Saw,
    
    Yer only bringin one hooker - boy you guys better get some local talent
    or he's going to real sore and tired.
    
    ;-)
    
    JD
8.105CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesFri Mar 01 1991 15:331
yeah, but we got TWO props to keep him up.....8^)
8.106ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Mar 01 1991 16:046
    So 'Saw - you goin' as one a those 2 props, or the extra 2nd row?
    
    And when you got some time, any chance of getting the Wanderers
    schedule posted??
    
    A&W
8.107CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesFri Mar 01 1991 17:2736
8.109Anybody have a short wave?CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Mar 01 1991 18:157
    Five Nations games to be played tomorrow:
    
    England vs. Ireland		Dublin, Ireland
    France vs. Wales		Paris, France
    
    If England and France win tomorrow they will share the Triple Crown and
    set up the Grand Slam match for March 16 in Twickenham, England.
8.110ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Mar 01 1991 19:458
    Hawk -
    
    Just consider that the other is the Tighthead :-)
    
    [Guess which one *I'd* prefer -- no, one 2nd thought, don't.  'tis
    too easy.]
    
    A&W
8.111CAM::WAYWhen Nick returns: Mother of all PartiesMon Mar 04 1991 11:393
Hawk,

You're right, You Can't Touch This... 8^)
8.112Good match coming up on the 16thCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 04 1991 15:4816
Weekend results, courtesy of VNS:
    
RUGBY UNION                
* Five Nations Championship
  France 36, Wales 3
  Ireland 7, England 16
    
    This sets up the match between France and England for all the marbles. 
    The game will be played on March 16 at Twickenham, England.  Home field
    seems to always be a big advantage in these games.  The game will
    feature a battle between 2 contrasting styles; the English 10 man game,
    and the French wide open running attack.  Will the French be able to
    stop the English forwards?  Will the English be able to contain the
    likes of Blanco and the other speedsters?  England has had the Grand
    Slam slip away from them the last couple of years.  Can they finally
    win it?
8.113CAM::WAYGonna tell Aunt Mary 'bout Uncle JohnMon Mar 04 1991 16:581
Go England!!
8.114This scrum smells of garlicEUSEBE::STURTWed Mar 06 1991 06:2416

	Keith and Co.,

	First, thanks for pointing out that this rugby conference exists.
	You now have Paris-based correspondent.

	The first item of news is that the French Federation has just
	announced a two-week mini-tour of the USA for the first half of
	July. No details of dates or venues yet, but watch this space.

	Salut,

	Ed.

	
8.115CAM::WAYGonna tell Aunt Mary 'bout Uncle JohnWed Mar 06 1991 11:3012
Bonjour Ed,

Nice to have you aboard.


Our big event this year (at least in Hartford Connecticut) is that
Scotland will be playing the Eagles in Dillon Stadium on May 18.
We're hosting the event, and plan on having it coincide with our
club's 25th Anniversary.


'Saw
8.116Pre-Bahamas "Trip" Report....CAM::WAYGonna tell Aunt Mary 'bout Uncle JohnWed Mar 06 1991 11:3840
Well, last evening we had the first of our "Bahamas practices".

It'll be an interesting trip, mainly because our scrum half for the
trip will be our Captain, Tom Faust.  Faustie is normally a winger,
so he never has to worry about putting the ball into the scrum, or
about getting the ball from the lineout.

So, in the failing light we have a couple of scrum downs so he could
practice putting in.  It was kind of funny at first, because he was
either a tad late, or a tad early.  But near the end he was getting
it right on Johnny's heel every time.  

Then we did some lineouts.  We had to explain the calls to him.
I'm jumping second in the lineout.  Of course with Brian Shell (all 6'5"
of him) jumping first, I probably will only get the odd throw hear and
there.  No problem, because I cain't jump that well anyway, and usually
get by barging the guy opposite me with my hip on the way up.  (This
is a main reason why I'm switching to prop this season).

So, after all that, and after we all had sufficient "Bahama Woodies",
we joined the rest of the crew for practice.


Tomorrow morning, at 0530, we'll gather in Bradley Airport.  Official
attire will be "beach attire".  Gee, I wonder if my french thong will
go with my Hawaiin shirt?

I also have to prepare for the rookie show, to be held sometime this
weekend.  Whatever I do for it (be it comedy or a skit or whatever) I
know will be "wrong"...  That's the idea, I guess, of a rookie show.
(Geez, I haven't been hazed since my fraternity days, almost 15 years
ago.....)


Tomorrow by early afternoon, we'll be sunning ourselves on the warm,
wonderful sands of a Bahamian beach.....

"Waiter, another beer please..."

'Saw
8.117ISLNDS::WASKOMWed Mar 06 1991 12:5319
    'Saw -
    
    Have a wonderful time.  Play well, party strong :-)
    
    re the Eagles game on the 18th.  I'll volunteer to coordinate a
    get-together for this thing - provided someone (either Saw or Mac,
    I suspect) will tell me who to contact for tix and give directions
    to the pitch.  Please send mail to ISLNDS::WASKOM.  Details as they
    become available to those with interest.
    
    Ed -
    
    Welcome to the file, as well as the note.  Remember, you'll save
    yourself lots of grief if you take almost nothing in this file
    seriously -- we've raised rat-holing and chain-pulling to art forms,
    known at their purest and finest as Junk Noting Extrodinaire.  Some
    of the best humor around is found right here.
    
    A&W
8.118CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 06 1991 12:5928
    No disrespect intended, but I can't picture a winger being a captain or
    making the conversion to scrum half.  Scrum halfs are honorary
    forwards.  They like to mix it up with the best of them.  Wings just
    hang out near the touchline combing their hair, looking for photo
    opportunities, checking out the spectators, and sleazing in at the last
    pass to take away a try that should have been scored by a prop ;^}.
    
    'Saw, they should make you the first jumper in the lineout and leave
    the 2nd jumper spot to the guy with the height.  Winning the lineout at
    first jumper can be accomplished primarily by technique.  We had a guy
    in Austin who was only 6'1" and had a vertical leap sufficient to slip
    2 credit cards under his boots ;^).  He won more ball over guys that
    had 4 or 5" on him than anyone I've ever seen.  With him in the lineout
    we could afford to put our taller and more athletic player into a jump
    ball situation in the middle of the lineout with great success.
    
    I've never seen a rookie show, but I wouldn't worry about hazing too
    much.  It can't be any worse than some of the stunts we pulled on the
    new guys in college at the post game parties - they usually involved
    alot of drinking and laughing and some wet clothes.  Worcester is
    planning a rookie show for our trip to D.C.  Even though I haven't been
    through this rite of passage, I'm exempt since I've probably been on
    more tours than anyone else on this trip (and I'm bigger than most of
    'em too ;^) ).
    
    re a couple back:  It will be great to get a French perspective on the
    game.  Any info on French tours of the U.S. would be most appreciated. 
    If your club is interested in visiting America, I can help set you up.
8.119On a wing and a prayerEUSEBE::STURTWed Mar 06 1991 13:2312

	Remember that Rory Underwood (a winger) was England captain
	for some time, and that Serge Blanco currently captains
	the French XV from the full-back position.

	I agree that scrum- or fly-half are the ideal positions to
	captain a team, but don't you think that the choice of captain
	is more a matter of personality, experience, and qualities
	of leadership than anyhting else?

	Ed
8.120Mac on CaptainsCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 06 1991 13:3825
8.121CAM::WAYToonces, the SCRUMming CatWed Mar 06 1991 14:4637
Usually, our elected captain is the captain of our A side.  B side
and C side captains are always the scrum-half.

Last year our elected captain was Kevin Sarr, A-side Loosehead.  He
always seemed to be in the thick of it, and his role as "enforcer"
kind of emanated both from his position and captaincy.

Faustie was our vice captain last year, and got elected captain in
January.  Pete the Dick is a second row who's vice captain now.  He's
excellent as he's coached some college teams and teaches well.

My only gripe with Faustie is that our running workouts, even the
"jogs" are more like sprints.  The four props who are regularly
at practice (me, Norton, Doc, Greg) are always bringing up the 
very rear.  I'm probably the 3rd heaviest of the bunch (at 228),
Norton is a BIG guy, and we're sucking wind big time.  Course, it
is early in the season....

I've got to get in better shape, but the up side of this whole thing
is that team fitness should be REALLY good this season.

Oh yeah, the only pictures that I've even been able to get of a wing
are ones where they're standing around ;^)

Everyone knows that if it weren't for the forwards, no rugby would
EVER get played, becuase the backs would just stand around and preen
for 80 minutes [many 8^)]


Well, folks, I'm outta here.  First order of Bahamian business is a
run, because I suck at going from cold, lung-cleaning practices, to
warm climate workouts....

Mac, I'll make sure I survive the rookie show ;^)

later folks,
'Saw
8.123CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 06 1991 15:075
    re .122:
    
    #1 rule of Rugby Touring:  What goes on tour, stays on tour!
    
    ;^)
8.124Women ruggersGRAMPS::BERMANGive Blood, Play Rugby!Mon Mar 11 1991 17:5651
   Hi,
    	My name's Rachael and I've played rugby for over 6 years, for MIT
    Women, MIT men (B-side in a slow women's season), Boston Women's, and
    Beantown.
    	I made the first-ever New England collegiate women's select side as
    a number 8, and the club New England Select side as a flanker twice. 
    I've played from Santa Clara,CA to Atlanta, GA (out of Boston) and France,
    England and Wales.
                      
    
   | Well, no disrespect intended to anyone, but it's pretty much
   | established
   | that of the 15 starters on Wild Rose (the local ladies team) only
   | two might be interested in you, Kwak, if you get my drift.
    
   | However, those two are quite, um, shall we say lovely.....
    
    
    No disrespect taken.  It's not an insult, just a fact.
    
    Well, I haven't really been keeping up on the rugby notes for a while,
    so I must say you guys have a lot of interesting comments on women
    ruggers.  If you want to see one, I was in the Land's End Catalog for
    Christmas, in a not too flattering picture wearing a jade prop stripe.
    It makes me look like a prop, my neck's not actually that big.
    
    But for all you drooling buddies, there's a disproportionate amount of
    straight women to look at as well in that as well as most Land's End
    layouts.  They have their fantasies about the makeup of the rugby
    playing population.
    
    As for women ruggers looking like men, well, I'm 5'4", 125 lbs and
    haven't often been mistaken for a man.  I've also played against and
    beaten the Welsh national side with blood all over my face.  So take
    any view of that you want.
    
    And 'Saw, you're almost right.  Two is about the number for a club side
    (I've played against Hartford for years) but the straight women aren't
    the only nummy looking ones.  Actually, they're usually least nummy in
    my book.
    
    MAC, are you back in Worcester?
    
    
    
    I like the new bumper stickers from Matt Godeck's
    	"Chicks dig me 'cause I play rugby"
    
    I want to put one on my car, next to "Give blood, play rugby"
    
    Rachael
8.125CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 11 1991 18:2710
    Welcome back, Rachael.  I've been reading some of these notes and
    wondering where the heck you've been.  Congrats on the select side
    play!  What did you think about rugby in France?  A friend of a friend
    is interested in playing women's rugby, but from what I understand, she
    doesn't want to have to travel too far from Central MA, so she's outta
    luck.
    
    As for me, I'm back in Worcester.  I had alot of fun and learned some
    more rugby while playing for a division I club in Austin.  Hopefully
    I'll be able to help Worcester move up some day.
8.126GRAMPS::BERMANGive Blood, Play Rugby!Mon Mar 11 1991 18:4029
    Mac,
    	
    Let's make sure to meet in Hartford, for regionals.  I'm going to
    miss Newport but it sounds like it'll be worth it.
    	
    I took the Fall most of the way off.  ie, I went back and played
    scrumhalf for MIT.  I went to my first Beantown practice again last
    Thursday.  Eighty flights of stairs before we even started.  Beantown
    starts this weekend in San Diego and we'll go until Nationals.  We won
    Territorials in the Fall. (Actually they, since I wasn't there.)
    	
    As for women's rugby in Central Mass... The closest team asides from
    the ones in Boston would be Hartford or Albany, depending on where she
    is.  She could also go play for a college team, but there's a world of
    difference in the level of play.  Or she could play for Beantown,
    Boston, or Merrimack and only practice once a week.  Beantown currently
    has someone who commutes from Williams college once a week, as well as
    3-4 players from Portland, ME. And I go an hour to get there.  Let me
    know if you want more information.  I should be able to dig up phone
    numbers for most of the teams.
    
    	Or she could do what I might do if I end up going to school in
    Pittsburgh next year, and just play for one of the men's sides.  It
    depends on the team, though.  The MIT guys were great teammates when I
    played with them, but you still end up without a locker room, and kind
    of peripheral.
    
    Rachael 
                                  
8.127GRAMPS::BERMANGive Blood, Play Rugby!Mon Mar 11 1991 18:4919
    I forgot, what about rugby in France.  When I played there, it was with
    the men's team my senior year at MIT.  
    
    The biggest difference I noticed was in the way the scrums went
    together.  Instead of doing a dip with an upward hit, then just caved
    in together.  It seemed like they were leaning more down then up.  It
    was very difficult for our pack to keep the scrum up.  And they threw
    the lineouts different, with a more flowing motion.  Kind of circling
    the arm and releasing, while ours tended to me more of a linear motion
    before the release.  
    
    And of course, they were much better then we were.  It's the opposite
    with the foreign women.  We practiced with the "women's team" of Ecole
    Central Polytechnique (don't ask me how to spell it, Central
    Polytechnic School) and they were pitiful in comparison to the women we
    had from our team.  (I think five women  went, three to play and two as
    girlfriends.)  And, I will proudly say, MIT women played some of the
    worst college rugby around, especially then.  But they made up look
    like pro's.
8.128CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 11 1991 18:5522
8.129LEDS::BERMANTue Mar 12 1991 12:1420
    Keith,
    	I heard it's definite that we're going to Hartford instead of
    Newport, not just a rumour.  I wonder if we'll be guaranteed tickets to
    the Eagle's match.

    	There used to be a team in Amhearst called Valley, but it's been
    about 5 years since they disbanded.  They were mostly made up of
    women from Smith college, many of whom are now either playing with or
    retired from Boston Women's.  MIT mixed a side with them many moons ago
    when we were at a tourney and neither team had a full side.  I think
    that was their last season.  However, I think as of about two years
    ago, Smith college has a team of their own.  

    	Some of the women's college teams tend to come and go. (Not mine
    of course, it's been around for 13 years).  I can think of at least
    three offhand that have resurged in the last few years.  I'm not as up
    on who's got a team since it's been a while since I was in school, but
    I can find out if anyone needs to know.

    Rachael
8.130CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monWed Mar 13 1991 12:5610
Hi Rachael,

You might know a friend of my brothers, who used to play for Wild Rose.
Her names Pat and she played prop (big girl, but fast).  Can't for the life
of me remember her last name though....

I'll keep you all informed the more I find about about that Hartford
weekend with the Eagles....

'Saw
8.131I'll have another Kalik please, mon...CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monWed Mar 13 1991 13:23108
Hawk,

Mac is right....What goes on tour, stays on tour.  The only way you
can find out what happens in a rookie show is to join up, go on tour,
and participate in one yerself.


However, I can report on the games.....


The first game was against a team called Becks Buccaneers.  About
five minutes into the game, Faustie, our captain, broke his leg.
There were two reserves (one back, one forward(me)) so Steve Carr,
the back, went in.

At half time we were down 3-0.  The ref was kind of a homer, but
not awful bad.  Mainly, we weren't playing "our" game.  Our forwards
were not consolidating by rucking and mauling, but were throwing up
a bunch of bad passes.

The pitch by the way was awful.  It mainly consisted of grass in
very sandy soil, with shells and pieces of coral (ouch!).

The second half, Hartford settled down, and started playing our
strengths.  We outscrummed them, and out rucked and mauled them.
About halfway into the second half, Hartford was awarded a five
meter scrum.   We scored a walkover try, to lead 4-3.

The rest of the game was superb defense on Hartford's part.

On Sunday, I played second row against the Waterloo Hurricanes.
Since our loosehead prop had to go home, we only had 14 guys.
We borrowed a scrum half from Waterloo, and Tom Vinnick, our former
Eagle, played 8man.  Ralph Holda, who'd played second row the day
before moved up to loosehead.

Overnight, the wind had really come up, and we were experiencing somewhat
cooler temps with 35-40 knot winds.  Needless to say, when Waterloo
won the toss, they took the wind.  The coin toss was about the only
fair thing the ref (a different one from Saturday) did all day.

Normally I don't complain about refs, but in this case, I feel I must.
This man was more than a Clemson REF(tm), in fact, he should have just
worn the red and black of Waterloo.

We played the first half pretty much even up, except that we
outscrummed them and beat the consistently in the lineouts.  I'm proud
of that, because as a forward (and an out of shape one at that) my
main responsibility is the set pieces.  Considering that I'm a C side
player, playing in a A side game, all I concentrated on was getting
my left shoulder into the right spot behind Ralph's leg, and pushing
the right way.  The rest would come as it might...

The ref made his presence felt early.  As Tom Vinick (our captain for
the game) questioned an offside call, he was slapped with a penalty.
Result: 3-0, Waterloo.

Later in the half they were awarded another penalty, close to our
goal line.  As they ran the ball in to us, their biggest player
had it (a former lineman for Eastern Kentucky I was told later) 
and he was coming through a cap by me.  I rushed to fill it, but
didn't cover it completely, and only made partial contact.  Support
was late, and he was in the zone for 4 points.

After 44 minutes of Waterloo having the wind, the half ended, 7-0.

In the second half, we came out smoking.  Vin had told us at 
half time "Play like studs, but consolidate the ball...."
However, we were down a man, because one of our backs started
non-stop vomiting and couldn't come back in.  We had to play
14 men against 15.

Soon, the score was 7-4.  But the ref soon came into play again.
Despite Waterloo being offsides most of the afternoon (especially
by their coming around and trying to fly hack the ball out of 
a ruck situation, usually fly hacking our heads instead) an inopportune
offsides call against Hartford gave Waterloo a big chance.  While still
in their own half they went weak side on us, broke a wing down the
sideline and it was converted to make the score 13-7.  Being down a
man, they had an automatic overload.....


We had our best opportunity when we were awarded a five meter scrum.
We had pushed Waterloo back three meters and were well on our way
to a walkover try, when the whistle blew.  The ref called the
Waterloo scrum half offsides.  Vin said "Sir, what about playing
the advantage?", meaning that he shouldn't have stopped play until
the scrum had stopped.   The ref immediately reversed the call,
awarded Waterloo a penalty for Vin's question....

A late try pulled Hartford to 13-8, and shortly after that the ref
blew full time.  Our people keeping track on the sidelines informed
us that we'd only had the wind for 32 minutes.

All told, with a fair ref, we might have won.  But we had a good
game (despite some chippiness near the end).

Our hosts told us that the ref was the worst one on the island, and
that he's only allowed to ref B and C side games usually...  Oh well...

The drinkup was especially good, with many songs, and shirt trading....


So, mon, that's the Hartford Wanderers tour...

Can't wait to do it again nexted year,
'Saw

8.132ISLNDS::WASKOMWed Mar 13 1991 18:2014
    'Saw -
    
    Sounds like you guys had a reasonably good tour, all things considered.
     It's not uncommon to have the refs be homers, unfortunately.  At
    least it doesn't sound like they loaded the teams with ringers,
    which has been known to happen :-(  Sounds like you, personally,
    acquitted yourself fairly well.
    
    How bad is the break for Faustie?  How long will he be out?
    
    What did you guys do with your days off?  or is that also in the
    "stays on tour" category?
    
    A&W
8.133CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monWed Mar 13 1991 19:0441
re Faust's break:

	It was low down on the fibula, near the ankle, broken in two
	places.  He'll have to see his doc at home here.  He's got
	a plate in one ankle, so it's possible he could end up with
	a plate in the other now.....

re the other two days:

	Well, some of the stuff I can tell.  On Thursday, after
	check in I just hit the beach.  Something about that light
	(almost tar heel) blue water and the warm sun beckoned me 
	down there.

	Within five minutes thought of a New England winter was 
	completely gone.  Sucking down some Goombay Smashes helped
	too.

	Friday I spent the best $20 of the whole trip and went
	snorkeling.  It was a BLAST!  I couldn't believe how clear
	the water is, and how vibrant the colors of the fish are.
	Some of those fish look like an ad for today's leisure clothing,
	all neon and stuff.

	After seeing some of the scuba divers, I've decided next time
	I go, I'll spend an extra 20 bucks and take the scuba lesson
	and do that instead!


I hope the tour becomes an annual thing.  Our rugby team was pretty
good, considering that we hadn't played as a unit before -- i.e some
A side players, a lot of B side, and two C side....  We owned them
in the scrums and the lineouts.  They tend to fly hack more when the
ball is down, instead of rucking over like we do, but given the choice
of fly hacking or going down on that particular pitch, I'd fly hack
too 8^)

Their good pitch was reserved for the Nassau Johnny Walkers 7s this
weekend!

'saw
8.134CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monWed Mar 13 1991 19:1539
>     It's not uncommon to have the refs be homers, unfortunately.  At
>    least it doesn't sound like they loaded the teams with ringers,
>    which has been known to happen :-(  Sounds like you, personally,
>    acquitted yourself fairly well.


Yeah, I've heard this about the refs too.  

Actually, it seems the Buccaneers had just barely beaten a college team
the week before, and it's almost like their refs wanted them to win.

But it was fun.....


As to me:

I would have liked to have been in better shape to make more of the
rucks and mauls.  It was really like an A side game, for all intents
and purposes, and I've been told the only difference between A, B and
C sides are the quickness of the game.  The pace was VERY quick.

I personally felt at first like I'd let the team down, but keeping in
mind what Brian had said about primarily being there to scrum helped.
When I talked with him afterwards about it, he told me that while I 
may have felt out of it during the game, that the experience would help
my rugby at the lower level I'm accustomed to playing at.

And of course being on the same pitch with Vinnick is always a privilege.
The man plays so well, and can play any position with intensity.  On
the first day he played fly half.  On Sunday he played 8man until
Ralph (loosehead) threw his back out.  Vin moved to prop, the blindside
flanker moved to 8man, and Ralph played blindside.....  Amazing...


So, our first game is in two weeks.  The Bahamas was a nice tune up, 
in beautiful weather.  It was the first time all winter that the
creaks and groans, aches and pains were fully gone....

'Saw
8.135CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 13 1991 19:2316
8.136CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monWed Mar 13 1991 19:2827
>    I think I'd like playing for Brian.  Here in Worcester we don't have
>    much size on the team to speak of, and they seem to want all 8 forwards
>    to be flankers.  It really makes it tough on us few big guys.  The
>    attitude in Austin was pretty much what Brian said - if a prop could
>    really get around in the loose play, that was a bonus.

Brian is what I call a monster second row.  He's 6'5" and around 250.

I tried to tackle him once.  Grab his torso, slid down to his waist,
slid down to his thighs, missed a cleat in the face, and missed an
ankle.  All of that occured over about 5 meters.....8^)

It's great that he will impart information like that, I think.

I've got a lot of respect for the flankers.  These guys are just 
unreal.

No doubt once I learn the ropes I'll be a prop.  I mean, the way
I'm built it's where I was born to play.....  I've got to shed at
least ten pounds to be comfortable out there.  I'd like to get
down around 200-205, but that's still a ways off.....  I'll just
have to keep running.....

later,
'Saw


8.137CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 13 1991 19:2918
    And another thing.  As you get more accustomed to the game, you'll
    find that you don't have to be running like crazy all over the field
    all of the time.  You'll pick up a sense of the flow of the game, and a
    field sense and be where you need to be with minimal effort so that you
    can concentrate that effort on winning the ball.

    It's kind of like being an outfielder on a baseball team - knowledge of
    the hitter, pitcher, wind conditions, etc. will allow you to position
    yourself so that you don't expend alot of energy trying to run down a
    ball.

    We had an 8 man who had a reputation as a very good rugby player.  He
    played in college and made a major impact when he joined the WRFC.  He
    was lazy, though, and didn't keep himself in that good of shape.  If
    you watched the game as a whole you'd probably come away with the
    impression that he played a great game.  If you focused on him during
    the game you'd notice that he didn't ruck or maul much, just seemed to
    be in the right place at the right time and made it count.
8.138CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monThu Mar 14 1991 11:1217
>
>    And another thing.  As you get more accustomed to the game, you'll
>    find that you don't have to be running like crazy all over the field
>    all of the time.  You'll pick up a sense of the flow of the game, and a
>    field sense and be where you need to be with minimal effort so that you
>    can concentrate that effort on winning the ball.


Yeah, I hear ya.  If I could prowl endlessly from sideline to sideline
making every ruck and maul, I guess I'd be playing flanker....;^)

And of course coming to the game "late" doesn't help much either.  Between
having to concentrate on scrumming and trying NOT to break the rules,
there's only so much concentration to go around...

'Saw

8.139LEDS::BERMANThu Mar 14 1991 11:1626
   |     And another thing.  As you get more accustomed to the game, you'll
   | find that you don't have to be running like crazy all over the field
   | all of the time.  You'll pick up a sense of the flow of the game, and a
   | field sense and be where you need to be with minimal effort so that you
   | can concentrate that effort on winning the ball.

    Reminds me of the time last year when I found myself, as flanker,
    arriving at the breakdown after our number eight consistantly in
    semi-opposed in practice.  She used to be the National #8 alternate,
    and is currently a National side second row, and is a great player, but
    there's not a chance in **** that she's faster then me.  I learned a
    lot that day, once I started thinking about it.
    
    I don't know the mentioned Hartford prop, at least not by name.  I may
    have played against her, depending on how long ago she played.
    
    The prop-flanker thing is interesting.  I played prop my first two
    years at school.  Then I played #8 for two years.  When I went out for
    club, I was put at flanker immediately.  I felt like the incredible
    shrinking (but growing ever faster) rugby player.
                                                    
    Our first match is this weekend in San Diego, but I won't be there. 
    Next weekend, we have two sides against Chicago at home, and Chicago
    will also (don't ask me how) put out a side against Boston.
    
    Rachael
8.140March 16 5 Nations MatchesCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 14 1991 15:0010
    On the international front, this Saturday the final 2 1991 Five Nations
    matches will be played:
    
    England vs. France		Twickenham, England
    	Both teams are undefeated.  The winner of this match will get the
    Grand Slam.
    
    Scotland vs. Ireland	Murrayfield, Scotland
    	With the Triple Crown and Wooden Spoon already decided, and the
    Grand Slam out of reach, this one is just for fun and pride.
8.141CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monThu Mar 14 1991 16:3614
8.142T'was a shock to see dat statement......CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Thu Mar 14 1991 21:519
    <paraphrased>
    
    "..wanna get DOWN to 200-210..."
    
    Chainsaw, eggzactly how big are you (both ways)?????
    
    IMWTN,
    Kev
    
8.143WFOV12::MORRISONWhen the still sea conspires...Fri Mar 15 1991 10:395
    
       He was talkin' about his S.A.T. scores :^>
    
       Bull~
    
8.144I have a Prop Butt....CAM::WAYHappiness is a warm scrum, monFri Mar 15 1991 11:2026
Kev --

I'm 6' and this morning I weighed 228.

Obviously that's NOT my ideal playing weight.  All last season
I played at about 215, and felt okay.  I've got to get down to
at least 220 to feel comfortable on the pitch.

Personally, after doing some thinking, I figure that 210 is 
achievable by late spring, and that should be a good area to
shoot for.

Remember, ruggers come in ALL shapes and sizes.  If you saw me,
you'd know I was built like a prop.  I've got the prop butt, 
the stocky legs, ample girth......

Even if I was fast, I could never be a back, because with this
body, I just wouldn't look good standing out there on wing preening
myself for eighty minutes ;^)


Practice last night was fun -- in the snow, but we did a lot of
mauling drills so finally, finally, finally, I feel like I'm 
playing rugby again.  It's all starting to come a tad easier too....

'Saw
8.146CAM::WAYSha-WING!Fri Mar 15 1991 12:2715
Ah, all you lightweights....

You don't know what it's like having poundage swings during the off-season,
then having to drag yer butt back and forth, back and forth across
the pitch....

I found it to be very difficult, because during the season, to maintain
weight and more importantly my energy level, I was consuming a lot of
food.  As soon as the season ends, you've got to cut back (which with the
holidays and all was NOT easy....)

From what I've heard, it actually takes about two full seasons to get
into rugby shape...(and I'm not talking about elbows either....)

'Saw
8.147Congrats to England!CAM::WAYSha-WING!Mon Mar 18 1991 11:4416
YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!!!!!!!!!!


England beats France 21-19 to go undefeated in the Five Nations, and
pick up the Championship.

Scotland also beat Ireland.....


If England keeps playing this well, the Eagles are gonna have a helluva
time come October in the World Cup.  We've got England (shudder)
AND the All Blacks (double shudder) in our group.....

Oh well....

'Saw
8.148Your man in the grandstandEUSEBE::STURTMon Mar 18 1991 13:2432
8.149CAM::WAYSha-WING!Mon Mar 18 1991 14:1310
I wish they'd show it over here.  

Chances are that ESPN *might* show it, but I doubt it.  

Someone is supposed to be telecasting the Scotland vs Eagles game in
Hartford in May, but I'm not sure who. 

Rugby doesn't get much airplay in the States I'm afraid....8^(

'Saw
8.150CAM::WAYDaylight come and me wan' go homeMon Mar 18 1991 15:2416
I spoke with ESPN Viewer Information this morning, and was told
that they have no plans to broadcast the Five Nations final.

Also I was told they have no plans to broadcast the rugby
world cup later this year.

If any of you would like to write letters protesting/questioning
this the address is:

		Viewer Information
		ESPN Plaza
		Bristol, CT 06010


hth,
'Saw
8.152Ticket prices for May 18 U.S./Scotland match in HartofordCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 19 1991 11:3211
    I saw an order form for tickets to the Scotland/U.S. game in May. 
    Price for a ticket is $15 each, or $10 each if you order in quantity
    (either 20 or 30 minimum).
    
    'Saw, any word on how they are going to work the New England
    tourmanment around the match?  I'd hate to buy tickets for the WRFC and
    find out we have a match at the same time.  I don't think that would
    happen.  If the Eagles match were held while other tournament games
    were scheduled, either they'd lose the crowd at the Eagles match or
    everyone would forfeit their games.  But sometimes you never know with
    rugby administrators...
8.153CAM::WAYDaylight come and me wan' go homeTue Mar 19 1991 11:4720
Mac,

I don't know, to be truthful.

Here is my speculation.  Now, I'm not sure how the NE Tournament works,
but it's probably a two day affair, right?  Well, I would assume that
on Saturday morning, games will be played, up until a later afternoon
game time.  Then the tournament would commence the next morning.

I honestly have heard NOTHING.  I don't know game time, or any of
that stuff.

I'll try to find something out tonight.  From what I understand, the
Wanderers have done this sort of thing before, and are quite good
at it.  Not having been with the team long, I can't personally
vouch for that.  But I'm sure it'll all work out.

Hang with me a bit longer dude....

'Saw
8.154LEDS::BERMANTue Mar 19 1991 14:3319
    If I remember correctly, games go pretty late on Saturday for the
    men, at least until about 6?  less for the women since there are
    only a few teams in New England.  And Sunday is pretty full for the
    guys also, with the finals in the afternoon.
    
    I bet they won't have the games coincide, but it'll be interesting
    to see how they do it.  Maybe a fourth field.
    
    I just talked to a teammate.  Beantown lost to two teams they shouldn't
    have lost to in San Diego (Surfers and Berkley, I think) and romped
    two others (Coast and UCLA (but club, not college)).  She said one game
    lacked forwards, one lacked backs, and the two they won went normal.  
    Also, tourney halves (20 minutes in the first game) probably
    contributed, as it takes Beantown a while to get going sometimes.
    
    I just gave blood and tonight I have to go to a practice which will
    probably be emphasizing fired-upness.  Interesting.
    
    Rachael
8.155CAM::WAYDaylight come and me wan' go homeTue Mar 19 1991 19:394
Well, as soon as I find anything at all out, I'll let you
all know....

'Saw
8.156CAM::WAYDaylight come and me wan' go homeWed Mar 20 1991 12:497
I couldn't find anything out last night.

I'm going to try again on Thursday....


Thanks for hanging in there...
'Saw
8.158ISLNDS::WASKOMWed Mar 20 1991 13:584
    Intriguing, interesting, thought provoking article Mac.  Many thanks
    for posting it.
    
    A&W
8.157Rugby/Business AnalogyCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 20 1991 14:07290
    I was forwarded an interesting article that compares playing rugby with
    concurrent engineering.  I have received permission from the author to
    post it here.
    


In a society  overwhelmed with sportsmania and that idolizes
its sports heroes it is not uncommon to find sports analogies sprinkled 
throughout everyday business talk: "run with the ball" (individual
initiative),  "run interference"  (eliminate obstacles), "strike out"
(fail) or "punt" (give up when failing), "handoff" (turn work over to
someone else), "batting .300" (getting good results)...

While participating in a University of Southern California seminar
on  concurrent engineering(1) I was struck by the fact that speaker
after speaker used a the same sport - rugby - analogy to describe
the kind of team play dynamics necessary in a concurrent engineering 
environment.

In rugby,  players continually pass the ball back forth among themselves 
(teamwork), improvising as the game evolves (flexibility), and filling in
for each other whenever a player is temporarily down (cross disciplinary
training).

The game is continuous with the same fifteen players participating
from start to finish.  This is contrasted with a relay race (an 
analogy for our prevalent style of designing products sequentially) where 
individuals take turns running and where a runner enters the
race only when receiving the baton from the previous runner.

The rugby analogy struck me particularly for I have played on rugby teams
most of my life and coached and participated in rugby organizations 
for many years.   I not only love  the sport itself and the exhilariation of 
being on the playing field, but also its values of teamwork, team
spirit, loyalty, endurance, sacrifice and off-the-field 
camaraderie.

But who started the rugby - concurrent engineering connection?  It seems
to be the Japanese.  Who else is better at  uncovering Western
ideas, values and technologies and making the best of them?  Kenachi
Imai, Ikugiro Nonaka and Hirotaka Takeuchi compared the team play
values of rugby to successful business practices in a 1984
presentation "Managing the Product Development Process - How
Japanese Companies Learn and Unlearn"(2) .  They have  developed
the rugby/concurrent engineering  theme further in subsequent articles.

Takeuchi and Nonaka list the following "corporate rugby scores"(3):
the Xerox 9900 copier developed in three years, a portable Brother
printer developed in less than two years, and Apple Corporation cutting
product development times down to one year from 3.5 years.

I think that the rugby (concurrent teamwork) analogy compared
with a relay race (sequential handoff) is most apt.  But while many of
our organizations seem to behave in the relay race style - I would rather
use rugby and American football analogies - because I think "football"
mentality is much deeper in our "psyche" than relay races.  How many people
spend much of their Saturday or Sunday afternoons watching relay races?  


Rugby has similarities to American Football: oval ball, tall goal posts,
touchdowns (tries), tackles, and field goals (penalty kicks), and
extra points (conversions).  


Football emphasizes the role of the "specialist" assigned to offensive,
defensive and special teams  and focusses
on planning and perfection. Because it allows no substitutions
during the course of a game (except for injury),  rugby
forces players to adapt and improvise and fill each other roles.
It is usually based on tactics transmitted from the coach to the
team via the quarterback.

In Rugby all fifteen rugby players can
carry the ball - so there is  much improvisation, lateral passing,
and overlapped roles, and a tremendous need for players to
"back each other up" both on offense and defense.

In a rugby game,  there are no downs, play continues all the
time as the teams attempt to keep possession of the ball or 
wrest it away from the opponents.  This continuity of play requires
that players continually create new tactics to
confront constantly changing situations.

In football, when something goes wrong, a timeout is called
and players wait for directions from their coaching staff. 
The new World Football League will use
a special quarterback helmet equipped with earphones to
pickup signals radioed directly from the coach. In
rugby - there are no timeouts (only a five-minute interlude
between two halves) so the players must deal with 
changing situations themselves.  

The "time out" concept is true most of the time in our business
environments where for the most part employees aren't empowered
to make key decisions.  (Companies that are approaching 
concurrent engineering seriously appreciate the importance of
employee empowerment.)

Rugby is compulsory for  students in some British schools.
where it is viewed as part of a well-rounded  curriculum
that emphasis character-building as well as academic proficiency.
It was once  said that Britain learned to win its battles on its rugby
fields.  

The late E.H.D. Sewell, an English rugby player and writer,
once recommended that rugby be included in the
training of all members of the military because of its character
building values.  Once he even advocated that it be made
compulsory in British schools on a broad  basis!

The character of  rugby can be guessed from the shouts of the players
in the heat of the game:  "help him out", "back him up", "I'm with
you"...Beyond teamwork, the game instills values of loyalty,
endurance, sportsmanship and leadership. 

Warren Bennis, one of America's leading thinkers on subject of leadership
and former President of the University of Cincinnati reminds us that we
"enshrine the myth of the lone hero" such as the John Wayne or the
Gary Cooper in High Noon. "The celebration of the self is embedded
in our culture." he points out (5)

More and more business leaders and management consultants are 
picking up on the same theme.  For instance, xxxx Adizes (6), a
noted management consultant and Professor at UCLA states:
"in the American work culture we tend to look for individuals.
When things go bad, we ask, "Who did it? Who should be fired?
Who is going to save us?" "I say there is no savior. You have to learn
how to work together if you want your company to operate at its peak."




In the U.S., - football fosters individual heroes: in high school, on 
college campuses, on television - with the ultimate being the
enshrinement of the hero in the Hall of Fame.  Its values are
those of reward for the individual, individual specialization and
success (proven by the individual's statistics: total tackles, sacks,
completed passes, etc.). When players do badly on the field and they are
removed.   Lost games are frequently attributed to the loss of a key player
or a bad call by the coach.

And maybe the football values are ones that many of take with us into the
business world.  We'll build an organization by paying for the
very best specialists we can find.  We'll look for the best coaches
and quarterbacks (i.e. managers).  We'll talk about team play and
cooperation.  But we usually think of a team that is centrally
controlled (by a coach) and made up of the most specialized of
specialists. And them we'll base  our organizations on a system that
rewards the  individual. 

A research study (4) commissioned by the Society of Manufacturing
Engineers identified
the non-team oriented dilemma of the American Engineer: "...working in
teams rather than as individuals contradicts one of the major reasons
many entered engineering in the first place: they prefer to deal with things in
isolation rather than with people," the study reported. Engineers "are
considered introverts, not extroverts" said the study.

"Stop running the relay and take up rugby" headlines the Harvard
Business Review article titled "The new new product development game." (2)
"In today's fast past-paced, fiercely competitive world of 
commercial new product development, speed and flexibility are
essential.  Companies are increasingly realizing that the old, sequential
approach to developing new products simply won't get the job done.
Instead, companies in Japan and United States are using a holistic
method -- as in rugby, the ball gets passed within the team as it
moves as unit up the field."

"...New emphasis on speed and agility calls for a different approach for
managing product development, "say Takeuchi and Nonaka, "The traditional
sequential "relay race" approach to product development...may conflict
with the goals of maximum  speed and flexibility.  Instead, a holistic 
or "rugby" approach--where a team tries to go the distance as a unit,
passing the ball back and forth-- may be better for today's competitive
requirements."

In rugby football there are no substitutions - the same 15 players are
on the field together from start to finish.  If a key player ends up
at the bottom of pileup, someone fills in for him (or her since women's
rugby is becoming increasingly popular).  

"Under the rugby approach," say mssrs Takeuchi and Nonaka, "the product
development process emerges from the constant interaction of a hand-picked
multidisciplinary team whose members work together from start to finish."
One company that is now implementing concurrent engineering is abolishing
specialized job titles for different types of engineer (like design
engineer, manufacturing engineering, service engineering).  All engineers
are now known as "product engineers" and they all share equally
in the design of the product. (8)

Rugby coaches will tell you that they emphasize cross-training.  In some
training sessions - the forwards will play in the positions of the
backs and vice versa just so they can get the feel and understanding of
other positions. Contrast this with football's emphasis on specialization -
or how we organize our operations around functional specialities (now
often referred to as stovepipes) - "its not my job" is a popular expression
among many workers."

The ebb and flow of a rugby game is not predictable.  So players have to
be flexible and prepared to improvise and deal with the unforseen.
One successful coach of a national rugby team told me that a key
approach of his was devoting a part of training
sessions to conversations among  players about aspects of the game
and to work out and agree on various strategies
and tactics.  Contrast this with football - where the team must
memorize set patterns and then only acts on signals from the sideline.
Similarly in many of our businesses, directions
are handed down from management  and managers sees  themselves
as quaterbacks calling the signals for their specialists.

Footnote on Rugby

Rugby has become a fairly popular sport in Japan.  Many companies
sponsor company-teams.

The sport has been growing steadily in the U.S.A.  I have found that
former U.S. football players readily take to rugby, enjoy it and often
say that they prefer it to American football.  Actually rugby "fits"
well with Americans - it embodies many similar skills to football
but eliminating some of the more negative aspects of football -
over-emphasis on specialization, organization, and precision.

When the professional organizational infrastructure (provided by
the high school or college athletic department) is no longer there,
we simply stop playing football.  The greatest number of rugby teams
exist as "clubs" outside of schools - and players continuing playing
in their 30's, 40's and beyond!

There is a U.S.A. national rugby team consisting of the best players selected
from hundreds of colleges and clubs across the U.S. 
The players are big, and fit and fast.  This team competes
internationally on about the same level as Japan.  But guess who has
been habitually winning in the U.S.-Japan rugby series?  Japan!  I believe
this is because the U.S. rugby players (unwittingly) still cling 
to their cultural habits (expecting more direction from the coaching staff,
stellar individual contributions on the field, etc) while the Japanese
teams are more skilled at on-the field improvisation and adaptability
combined with very solid - you guessed it - team performance.

As organizations  are finding it more and more difficult to
produce competitive products - they are reconsidering their
processes, their organizational structures, and even their
values. "Values guide, motivate, and give meaning to people
who spend much of their lives at work," points out Dr. Sheila
Steinberg, ??? " Values are very, very
important in the process.  They allow us to recognize ourselves
as we work our way through chaos."


So as we ponder how to build better products, faster so as to be
more competitive - we need to shed our football values  and sequential
relay race organization mentalities. We have to stop letting
concepts like "handoff" and "timeout" and "quarterback" influence
our work styles. And we have to behave more according to the teamwork
styles embodied in rugby.  

Thanks Japan for reminding us Americans to take more business success
cues from a sport developed by the British!

And by the way - how much more enjoyment we could have, if work was as much
fun and as challenging as good game of rugby!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Managing Concurrent Engineering: A Full Spectrum Approach, Jan. 13-14, 1991,
Center for Operations Management, University of Southern California

2) Managing the New Product Development Process - How Japanese Companies
Learn and Unlearn, Colloquium on Productivity & Technology, Harvard
Business Review, March,  1984

3) The New New Product Development Game - Stop Running the Relay Race
and Take Up Rugby, Harvard Business Review, January 1986

4) Countdown to the Future: Manufacturing Engineers in the 21st
Century, A.T. Kearney, Inc, 1988

5) The Chasm Between Management & Leadership, by Joe Flower based on
a conversation with Warren Bennis, Healthcare Forum Journal, ??


6)xxx Adizes, quoted in INC, January 1991 

7) Rugger: The Man's Game, E.H.D. Sewell, Hollis & Carter, Ltd., 1944

-------------------------------------------------------------------

   Dimitri Dimancesco
   Digital, NAS-Concurrent Engineering Group, MR01
   Member Charles River "Rats" Rugby Club (Concord, Mass.)
8.159LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Mar 20 1991 16:1521
    	When I interviewed for jobs during the Spring of my senior year,
    rugby was a big topic for the reasons stated in that article.  Rugby is
    such a great combinations of individual and group skills.  I used to
    tell the interviewers about how almost everything in life can be compared 
    to rugby, especially work stuff.
    
    	Last season I played for MIT after playing club for two years, one
    year with one of the best clubs in the US.  They all thought we were
    going to win every game since I was there, but I knew better.  It was
    very flattering, to be sure, but that's just not how the game goes.
    
    	Also reminded me of my college days; I was the captain and I did
    selections.  The big issue was always where to put the weaker players,
    since we barely made a full side every game and would play everyone who
    came to practice.  Those of you who play, think about it.  There's not
    really anywhere to put the weaker player without significant loss
    either offensively, defensively, or both.
    
    	I liked that article a lot, Mac.
                                   
    Rachael
8.160CAM::WAYDaylight come and me wan' go homeWed Mar 20 1991 18:4235
>    	Also reminded me of my college days; I was the captain and I did
>    selections.  The big issue was always where to put the weaker players,
>    since we barely made a full side every game and would play everyone who
>    came to practice.  Those of you who play, think about it.  There's not
>    really anywhere to put the weaker player without significant loss
>    either offensively, defensively, or both.
    
An interesting point.

My guess would be that if you're gonna have someone who is "weaker"
it depends on the terms.  I'm a tight five player.  I know that I
do scrum well (at least at second row -- I'll know about prop sometime
soon) but don't always make the loose rucks/mauls.   If that's a
weakness, put 'em in the tight five, because if they can scrum, then
that's a good place.  

I have to admit I don't know much about backs.

I think it helps if the team knows who's newer/weaker too.  I remember
one game where our C side was playing New Haven's C side but they were
actually about half A's.  Our strong side wing was playing in his
first game, and didn't have the concept of kicking for touch when you're
in trouble down to well.

I know that every tight five forward in that game did their darndest to
suck it up and get back there to help the kid out.  A rugby player was
born that day, believe me.  (It was interesting, because he's a high school
kid who wanted to play, and most of us on the Wanderers are at least 23,24...)


Oh well....

Rugby's great!

'Saw
8.161*no, I mean really hard to place*LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 10:5517
    	Let me clarify that.  We're not talking about someone who's pretty
    strong but turtle-slow.  Remember this is MIT we're talking about,
    which fields some pretty impressive women's teams but is not known for
    its jocks.
    	We would have <=5 jocks, <=6 mediums (right attitude, not too in
    shape) and then alway at least one or two who you just can't imagine
    what to do with them.  Good kids, good attitude, usually very good
    teammates, but often about 100+ lbs of pure, unbridled passivity.  You
    can only have one hooker, and even there, it's a world of difference
    between a good one and a bad one.
    	Having just weighed myself yesterday, I am not one to discount
    light-weights.  But the combinations of weight+attitude must equal at
    least 150lbs and preferably 180lbs.  I usually tell people I weigh
    165lbs since that's a little over my girlfriend's weight and she is a
    great player.
    
    Rachael
8.162CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 11:0326
I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that 90% of it is 
attitude.

I wish I could remember what my Wanderers "mentor" told me early in 
my first season.  It was something like "You can be slow, weak,
uncoordinated, and (something).  Even if you're three of those things
you can still play rugby.  Not all four though".

I've seen people who look like total lightweights be the best hitters
on the team, simply because of attitude.

I'm having a lot of motivational problems this season, simply because
I can't seem to shed any of this weight.  Hopefully once the games
really start (and it stops raining/snowing for EVERY PRACTICE we have)
it'll be a little easier.  This spring has really been tough.  Given
a choice, I'd much prefer sweating my ___ off during August, than
in freezing my joints in February....;^)

You definitely gotta love the game to play it though...


	To win the game is great
	To play the game is greater
	To love the game is greatest.....

'Saw
8.163MCIS1::DHAMELChoc. bunnies yes;M'mallow chicks noThu Mar 21 1991 12:1915
    
    >my first season.  It was something like "You can be slow, weak,
uncoordinated, and (something).  Even if you're three of those things
    
                    ^^^^^^^^^
    
    Uh.......Stupid?
    
    8^)))
    
    Dickstah
    
    
    
    
8.164LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 12:2910
    re -.1
    
    There's a new rugby slogan I've been trying to promote, for those of us
    die-hard, what's a little blood or broken-bone types:
    
    "No brain, no pain"
    
    Rachael
    
    (Credit goes to a male rugby-player friend of mine.)
8.165CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 12:4663
8.166Why let the backs have all the fun?CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 21 1991 12:558
8.167No wooden spoon this yearCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 21 1991 13:008
    Here are the final standings from the 1991 Five Nations Tournament. 
    
                                  P  W   D   L   Pts 
                  1. England      4  4   0   0    8
                  2. France       4  3   0   1    6
                  3. Scotland     4  2   0   2    4
                  4. Ireland      4  0   1   3    1
                  5. Wales        4  0   1   3    1
8.168CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 13:2712
>    Next time, try just picking it up and running it straight up the field. 
>    You can set up another ruck/maul from there allowing the scrumhalf to
>    get back into position.  This is especially effective if you find
>    yourself running into one of the opponents wimpy backs - and it's a
>    whole lot more fun ;^).

I'll have to try that.  Gee, I never thought of that ;^)

I like running into wimpy backs....  



8.169There I was...LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 13:286
    And while you're at it, after you've broken through their wimpy backs,
    (who will no doubt be more worried about keeping their shorts clean then
    tackling a forward) and their huffing, panting, forwards are
    approaching you, why don't you place a grubber through their line, (away
    from the fullback), run up, scoop it up and run in the last 5 meters for
    a try?
8.170CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 13:327
We have a very strict rule on the Wanderers...  Forward don't kick ;^)

I could try that, but one of two things would happen.  I'd do it, score
the try and get yelled at ;^)  Or I'd blow it, and get really yelled
at....8^)

Gawd, all this talk is gettin me ready to play!
8.171QUASER::JOHNSTONLegitimateSportingPurpose?E.S.A.D.!Thu Mar 21 1991 13:3531
8.172LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 13:3810
                         ^^^^^^^^^
|We better try to nail this down.

|Ugly?
|Gay?
    
    Stop right there.  But that's women's rugby, and it's not an absolute
    requirement.  Some straight women make very good rugby players.  
    
    Rachael
8.173Watch it.LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 13:4016
    Hey, just wondering, how would everyone feel if we substituted
    <yourname> for gay in the following list?
    
    Rachael
Ugly?
Gay?
Bald?
Fat?
Dyspeptic?
Presbyterian?
Loco?
knock-kneed?
hard of hearing?
poor?
hoarse?
covered in shit? (must not be the king, hey?)           
8.174LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 13:4610
    I'll reply first to my own question.  At first I was pissed, at the
    implication that he was naming a bunch of defective personality types
    and that was one of them.  Then I thought, well, maybe he knows rugby
    well enough (or has read this note) to know that's the norm in women's
    rugby. (club only, please, not college)  But, then, he didn't name any
    of the other norms so I think that was not the case, I think it was the
    former.
    
    
    Rachael
8.175A serious question....CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 13:5329
>    and that was one of them.  Then I thought, well, maybe he knows rugby
>    well enough (or has read this note) to know that's the norm in women's
>    rugby. (club only, please, not college)  But, then, he didn't name any
>    of the other norms so I think that was not the case, I think it was the
>    former.


Gee, I'm gonna feel like Larry King here, saying "Caller, please stay on
the line", but I've got a serious question....


Now in men's rugby, the norm tends to be that you usually pick up the
game in college, and then after college you find a rugby club to
continue playing.  (I'm not normal.  It's rare for someone just to
come out and play never having done it before....)

Well, and I'm not being facetious, if the norm in women's college
rugby is that women are straight, and they tend to be gay at club
level, how does that work.  Is it a different set of folks?  Is
there not the influx into women's club from college?

I know at one time Wild Rose was predominantly straight, but now their
nickname (and I'm just being factual, not intending any disresepct) is
dikes on spikes.  They're predominantly gay except for one or two
straight women.

again, I'm just curious, and maybe it would enlighten a lot of us...

'Saw
8.176CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 21 1991 14:0012
    When I played in Austin the forwards took a lot of ball off the rucks
    and mauls whether or not the scrumhalf was tied up.  If a forward was
    late getting to the ruck/maul, he hung out behind the scrumhalf and let
    the scrumhalf know he was there.  He'd then get up a good head of steam
    and take a pop pass from the scrumhalf and set up the ruck/maul again
    (we preferred the ruck).  This helped create the overloads.  You've got
    their forwards still picking themselves up out of the first ruck/maul,
    and now you have the opportunity to tie up the rest of their forwards
    and a couple of backs as well.  Your backs now have even more time to
    get themselves set up.  On occasion, the forward would be able to cover
    alot of ground since there can be a nice gap around the base of the
    ruck/maul.
8.177QUASER::JOHNSTONLegitimateSportingPurpose?E.S.A.D.!Thu Mar 21 1991 14:048
You can probably make anything you want out of it... but they are just
descriptive nouns... by way of razzing the Chainsaw (which he knows) and
he'd probably pick loco, knock kneed, and covered in shit (except on
bath night). [ at least I don't think he's Presbyterian or Gay ]

;'p

Mike JN
8.179LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 14:0735
    I've got no problem answering just about any sincere questions.  I
    think ignorance is the root of much evil.
    
    FYI, one of my roommates in college (Bi-sexual male, actually, it was a
    fairly non-conservative dorm) used to call my teams dykes-in-stripes
    (rugby) and dykes-on-ice (hockey).  
    
    The way it looks to me is that the makeup of the college teams varies
    quite a bit.  A few are mostly lesbians, but most are over 50%
    straight.  Some are very straight and tend to be going out with the
    men's team.   One of the best sides MIT fielded in the last 6-7 years
    was because there were at least 5 women going out with players on the
    men's team.  (Myself included, I hadn't quite figured it out yet.  But
    I sure thought about it)  (I was the only one where I got him to play,
    though, instead of vice versa)  Since the guys were more serious, they
    took that message and were more serious.
    
    Anyways, the way it seems to work is that the one's who continue to
    play after college tend to be lesbians (mostly, not all) or perhaps
    come out eventually (ahem).  I think this is very lifestyle related.  
    We don't have the same norm, as lesbians, so why not play rugby if we
    love it.  A lot of straight women I have known who have quit just
    regard sports, rugby, as something they did in college, kind of like
    going to frat parties, that they just wouldn't take seriously
    afterwards.
    
    Rachael
    
    PS  It's a lot easier to recruit gay women, they tend to have a more
    open mind about rugby.  Most of the straight women I've ever tried to
    recruit respond with some variation of "I couldn't possible do that, I
    don't have the physique".  Most lesbians have no doubt as to whether or
    not they could do it, it's just a question of whether or not they would
    want to.
            
8.180LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 14:1216
    That first note was supposed to be funny.  The second one I brought up
    just to remind him about casually associately "gay" with negative
    values.  People have been very well educated and don't call blacks
    niggers anymore, but they sure use gay as an insult or otherwise
    derogatory reference often enough.
    
    Anyways, I figure it's his issue.  I just wanted to point it out.  I
    know that this is a fairly open arena and that's the way it should be. 
    I just reserve the right to include my two cents here and there.  
    This note is great, I think the idea behind the note in question was
    pretty funny, I just thought it was "an unfortunate choice"
    
    Rachael
    
    Who's got better things to be pissed about for more then 2 minutes but
    appreciates the advice to ignore it and will do so.
8.181CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 14:1517
re the last few:

	Mac, thanks for the advice.  At all costs, we're told to stay
	out of the way of the scrum half (and for good reason...)

re Hawk:

	good point.  Actually, I got a kick out of Mike JN's response,	
	and if I'm not actually covered in shit, I'm usually full of
	it 8^)

re Rachael:

	Thanks a lot for the answer.


'Saw
8.182CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 21 1991 14:237
8.184CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Thu Mar 21 1991 16:3010
Hey Rachael,

I think we ruggers have to get Hawk to a women's rugby game soon...

Btw, what weekend did you say you'd be in Hartford?  HWRFC is home
after April 13 until the end of the season.  If you're playing in
Colt Park, be sure to come over and say Hi.

later,
'Saw
8.185LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Mar 21 1991 16:5116
    	Hey, we're playing Chicago in Norton (I think that's it) this
    weekend, two games.  Everyone's welcome to come, those embedded in
    fantasy and reality alike.  I'll be interested to see what we (and
    myself in particular) do, not having been outside yet this season.
    At least most of the rest of the team went to San Diego last weekend.

    	Hawk, you were right just up to the electrical tape.  If I bound
    him up, he wouldn't be able to leave...  (Disclaimer, I've got nothing
    against the man in question, I've got no impression that he's homophobic 
    or whatever, I just didn't agree with his wording)

    	Now I have to get serious and decide whether to make a
    count-up-and-compare, or count-down-to-zero timer.

    Rachael

8.186QUASER::JOHNSTONLegitimateSportingPurpose?E.S.A.D.!Thu Mar 21 1991 17:1615
As soon as I had `splained to Big Suze the unusual uses to which Franwa
puts electical tape; eg taping up his ears, his nads, his womens, his
heifers, a cactus, an art mobile consisting mostly of forks and
jellybeans, and his wolf... she immediately thought of taping me up (and
probably going to Fiji). However I foiled this nefarious plot with a
most wizardly escape sequence (see Unix Notes).

Also, I am not homophobic. I have had a full set of rabies shots.

And some of my best friends are Raider fans.

So...
now you know.

Leftenant Colonel Michael JN RAF (deceased)
8.188May 18th, 3pm, Dillon Stadium.CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Fri Mar 22 1991 11:2553
OKAY FOLKS, HERE IT IS:

	Last night I got some information on the USA-Scotland test.

	First off, the game starts at 3pm.  All of the day's New England
	tournament games will have been played by that point.
	Game Day is of course, May 18.

	Like football, the game is played rain or shine.  In fact,
	rugby in the rain is quite fun.


	Tickets are $15, but blocks of 20 or more are $10.

	I still am not sure how to get them, but I'll volunteer to
	do that for the get-together.  A&W and I can coordinate.
	I'd suggest trying to get at least twenty people.

	The last time Hartford hosted an event, in 1982, it was the
	USA-England test and there were 10,000 people at the game.
	This is big time stuff.

	I have directions to Dillon Stadium from I91 North or South,
	which is easily reached from I84.  I'll post them as the
	time gets closer.  For those of you who have been through
	Hartford, and are familiar with the blue onion dome of the
	Colt Firearms Factory, Dillon Stadium is sort of beside
	is on the south side.


	Also, if any of you would like to personally take out a patron
	ad in the program, the price is $50.  That money will help
	offset the cost of putting on the test.  Send me mail if 
	you are interested.  (Perhaps the Freakin' Lunatics would
	all like to chip in 8^))



Personally, I feel that this will be a prime SPORTS gettogether.  It's
ideal for a pre-game tailgate party, and the Dillon Stadium complex
abutts Colt Park, where I'm sure the NE Tournament games will be played.
You could arrive earlier in the day and watch some of New England's
best rugby teams, then go to a tailgate party, and finally watch the
test match.

Rugby is growing in popularity in the US, and there will be a big
turnout for this test.  All of the Scottish clans have been notified,
and we feel we'll get a good turnout from those folks too.

Anybody gonna print up RugbyMania shirts?  8^)


'Saw
8.189Prop -- what a pain in the neck 8^)CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Fri Mar 22 1991 11:3331
Phew.

Well, lasted night I played prop at practice.  Unbelievable.

You see I never realized that the human spine could be bent
into a pretzel shape and still have the human being survive.
I never realized that my neck would do new and unusual things,
in fact I'm thinking of trying out for Exorcist IV.....

Seriously, it was quite an experience.  I literally got eaten
alive by the other props on the team.  Playing prop, I've learned,
is almost total technique.  The only way you learn that technique
seems to be jumping into the deep end of the pool.

I played both sides.  Tighthead, for some reason, seemed a little
easier, but of course when I was playing loosehead, I was going
up against Joe Norton, who weighs like 270 and just annihilated
me.  And believe me, he wasn't even trying.

From what I understand, the tighthead prop tries to mess up the
opponent's hooker, by getting under him and lifting him up.
The loosehead's responsibility is to keep the tighthead off
the hooker.  That's why me going up against Joe Norton seems
even more comical.


So, the first item on the agenda is to learn some technique.

It might be a LONG season.....

'Saw
8.190CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Mar 22 1991 12:2312
    'Saw, I saw ticket order forms for the U.S./Scotland game at the
    Washington Irish Tournament last weekend.  One of the guys on our team
    picked up a couple but I'm not sure from where - the Rugby Imports
    booth maybe?
    
    Will the teams playing in the tournament get a break on ticket prices
    for the International match?  Actually, I doubt it.  That would really
    cut down on the size of the paying audience.
    
    Anyone out there know if Scotland will award caps on this tour? 
    Ireland didn't the last time they were over here.  It was a real snub
    to the American and Canadian national teams.
8.191CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Fri Mar 22 1991 12:419
I'll try to find out about tix on Saturday.

Last night we were inundated with the adverstising packages.

I have to sell at least ONE ad, so I'm going to by a patron ad
with my family.  Hopefully I can sell some more....

later,
'Saw
8.192ISLNDS::WASKOMFri Mar 22 1991 14:209
    So far, we've got three noters signed up to go -- me, Hawk, and John
    Hendry.  I'm assuming that 'Saw, Mac, and Rachel will be there, and
    might be interested in connecting up with any Sportsters going.
    
    This should be a good time.  I encourage any of the rest of you
    freakin' lunatics who wonder just what the h*** all the excitement
    in this string is about to JOIN US AT THE GAME!!
    
    A&W
8.193CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Mar 22 1991 14:253
    I'm sure my club will be buying a block of tix to the game.  I would be
    glad to hoist a few with the Sportsters if the occasion presents
    itself.
8.194CAM::WAYSame old, same old, Jimmy Rain...Fri Mar 22 1991 14:467
Well, I'm commited to work the game, but I've heard that I should
be able to see all or part of it....

I'm always up for raisin' a cup....


'Saw
8.195LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Mar 25 1991 11:3140
    It's Monday and I played this weekend.  So time for the glorious
    stories...
    	
    About propping.  I prop against our loosehead when the A-side (not me)
    warms up.  She is the National side loosehead and is a real treat to go
    against.  I usually ask her afterwards if I hurt her, then she laughs. 
    I'm not sure why she's laughing...

    As for pretzeling, for even more excitement, try propping on a team with
    an inexperienced scrum, with the front row squished in and the second
    rows pushing straight up.  There were times when I propped ( a long
    time ago) when I couldn't breath until the scrum was over, since my
    ribs were being compressed from both ends at once.  However, I think
    hooking is even worse.  I think hooking is the most painful position
    to play.
    	
    Chicago came this weekend, with just barely enough.  The A-side played
    them in a fairly uninspirational game, made even more pleasant for
    those waiting by ever-increasing-in-size wet hail.  Chicago played hard
    and steady the whole game.  Beantown started out slow and picked up
    towards the end (only 30 minute halves) to win, 7-0.

    Some of the Chicago players didn't want to play again, (it was really
    nasty out) but they borrowed a Hartford flanker (Penny, 'Saw) and came
    against the B-side for another 30 minutes.  They beat us, 3-0.  My
    favorite play of mine was right near the sidelines.  I found myself in
    a maul, (how did I get there?  I'm not sure...), and I realized I
    wasn't really doing anything, since it was very muddy and there was no
    grip on the ground.  So, I started sliding my feet back and forth in
    the mud, to give the illusion of movement, if nothing else.  As I ran
    off, I heard one of our selectors yelling "good job" at me.

    Then we went to the Norton (small town near Foxborough) House of Pizza,
    and scared the locals for hours.

    About tickets, if you guys let me know how to buy tickets, and our team
    doesn't already have something set up, I'll buy our tickets from you. 
    We'd probably be good for at least 30.  Is Hartford selling them?

    Rachael
8.196CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 11:5474
8.197LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Mar 25 1991 12:1141
| In fact, I actually got pushed sideways, if you can figure that.
                                                           
    Having propped for two years, I have no problem figuring that.  If
    you're having a problem getting pushed out sideways, ask your flanker
    for some help holding you in.  The loosedhead in our match is a rookie,
    and was getting pushed out, so our second row asked me to hold her in. 
    It worked well, and there was no problem after I started to pay more
    attention to it.                      
                                                           
|I've never hooked.  First off, I'm too big 8^)  Second off, I'd probably
|just bring down the front row, since I don't know what the hell I'm
|doing! 8^)

    I have hooked, I hate hooking and second row in case anyone can't tell. 
    Luckily, I'm not a good hooker and I'm too small for second row.  There
    was a time, (I don't think I'm this bad now), when I could bring down a
    whole scrum with my hooking.
                                                           
|I think I've figured out that what I'm supposed to try to do is
|squat like I'm taking a dump (or as one other fellow said Sit back on the
|second row), keep my back straight (easier said than done) and go in
|upwards, then try to push up.

    That's the classic description of propping.  One of the things I think
    makes propping an interesting position to play is that every team you
    go against will hit a little differently, and you have to adapt to be
    most effective.  You figure out what angle they go at, and when they
    push, and you hit them right before from underneath.  Not that I'm any
    prop expert, that's just what I used to do.  I know some of the male
    props will make a point of growing a scratchy beard so they can annoy
    the opposing prop and/or hooker with it.
                                                           
|Is she the really foxy redhead?  I don't know many of the women on the
|team, but the one all the guys point out to me is this really pretty
|girl with red hair [many 8^)]

    No.  I know who you're talking about, but I can't remember her name. 
    She also plays select side for New England.  The one you're talking
    about is a back, and has somewhat dark skin, correct?  
    
    Rachael                         
8.198WRFC 3 NHRFC 41CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 25 1991 12:1326
    New Haven pasted Worcester on Saturday 41-3.  The were 3 redeeming
    moments - even the New Haven guys didn't think the score could have
    been that high, the B side won 6-0, and the coach was sick and missed
    the game.
    
    Worcester was doing fairly well getting around a very sloppy field. 
    Most of the time we hit the rucks and mauls before New Haven did, but
    when New Haven got there they did more damage.  They won a lot of ball
    that we took into the ruck/maul and utilized the overload well.
    
    Worcester seems to have all tighthead props and no loosehead props.  As
    a result, I compromised with my fellow prop and we switched positions
    at the half.  I played the first half at loosehead and did OK, but I
    really made my 2nd row and flanker work in the scrums to make sure I
    didn't split out from the hooker.  New Haven did score 1 pushover try
    while I was at tighthead.  I'm not sure how it happened (either I got
    lazy or my second row started pushing up, or a little of both), but my
    butt started to go up and I started envisioning myself in a pretzel
    position.  Our whole scrum started back pedalling at that point;
    nothing was hurt except my pride.
    
    In a discussion after the match with the captain and a prop from
    Ireland who is currently on the IR, I did better at loosehead than the
    other prop - so it looks like I'll have plenty of opportunity to brush
    up on my technique.  The scrum machine comes out tomorrow for us all to
    get the kinks worked out after the winter layoff.
8.199CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 12:4739
>    Having propped for two years, I have no problem figuring that.  If
>    you're having a problem getting pushed out sideways, ask your flanker
>    for some help holding you in.  The loosedhead in our match is a rookie,
>    and was getting pushed out, so our second row asked me to hold her in. 
>    It worked well, and there was no problem after I started to pay more
>    attention to it.                      

Yeah, that makes sense.  Couple that with the fact that I wasn't
keeping my butt down, and not getting a real good push, and it
starts to make sense....


>    That's the classic description of propping.  One of the things I think
>    makes propping an interesting position to play is that every team you
>    go against will hit a little differently, and you have to adapt to be
>    most effective.  You figure out what angle they go at, and when they
>    push, and you hit them right before from underneath.  Not that I'm any
>    prop expert, that's just what I used to do.  I know some of the male
>    props will make a point of growing a scratchy beard so they can annoy
>    the opposing prop and/or hooker with it.


Yeah, that's another thing.  Norton had about two days growth, so it
was like having a piece of sandpaper between our heads.  I can do that
too, though 8^)  (In fact, that's probably the easiest part of propping
and the one I'll master quickest....
                                                           

>    No.  I know who you're talking about, but I can't remember her name. 
>    She also plays select side for New England.  The one you're talking
>    about is a back, and has somewhat dark skin, correct?  

I'm not sure.  I've never seen her really close, and it was last fall.
She seemed to have really red hair though.....


8^)

'Saw
8.200CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 12:5029
>    New Haven pasted Worcester on Saturday 41-3.  The were 3 redeeming
>    moments - even the New Haven guys didn't think the score could have
>    been that high, the B side won 6-0, and the coach was sick and missed
>    the game.

Ouch!

    
>    In a discussion after the match with the captain and a prop from
>    Ireland who is currently on the IR, I did better at loosehead than the
>    other prop - so it looks like I'll have plenty of opportunity to brush
>    up on my technique.  The scrum machine comes out tomorrow for us all to
>    get the kinks worked out after the winter layoff.


Have fun.  If loosehead is as hard for you after tighthead as it was
for me, good luck!  8^)

As for New Haven, I know we beat them last season, but the toughest
match was the C side match.  There were about 8 A side guys on
our team, and we were down 10-0 at the half.  We did come back and
kick butt though...

We've got some New York team this weekend.  I don't know if I'll be
selected as a prop or second row, but it'll probably be prop since
we're short...  (oh my aching neck 8^))

later,
'Saw
8.201CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 25 1991 13:0013
    'Saw, to help your neck aches, do alot of isometrics on your neck to
    build up the muscles.  Someone makes a rubber ball that you can inflate
    to different pressures to vary the resistance.  You put the ball up
    against the wall and lean your head into it and push.  They're kind of
    expensive, but you might be able to get a few guys to chip in on one. 
    Or you can go the low tech route and just work with someone else or
    put a sponge or foam pad against the wall in place of the ball.
    
    One year in college I was invited to be in a friend's wedding.  I was
    measured for the tux before the rugby season started.  I had a 17"
    neck.  When I picked up the tux for the wedding after the season had
    ended I had to have the tailor move the button on the collar over and
    give me a collar extension - I had added over an inch to my neck size.
8.202CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 13:2516
>    'Saw, to help your neck aches, do alot of isometrics on your neck to
>    build up the muscles.  Someone makes a rubber ball that you can inflate
>    to different pressures to vary the resistance.  You put the ball up
>    against the wall and lean your head into it and push.  They're kind of
>    expensive, but you might be able to get a few guys to chip in on one. 
>    Or you can go the low tech route and just work with someone else or
>    put a sponge or foam pad against the wall in place of the ball.

Sounds like a good idea.  I hadn't thought of isometrics.  I was 
gonna do it with free weights and a harness.....

It's gonna be a long season....8^)

'Saw (who's gonna become a prop if it kills him!)
    

8.203Another suggestion for neck musclesLEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Mar 25 1991 13:3824
    We used to do those when I lifted with our high school football team
    over the summer.  (I guess I should have seen the future earlier...)
    They're easy to do with a partner.
    
    There's two kinds, isometrics and isotonics (or something, I'm not sure
    of the second one)  One is when what you're pushing against slowly
    gives, and the other is where it doesn't give.  I don't remember
    exactly what the difference was, but it was suggested to do both as
    they had different effects.
    
    We would do the side to side movement by getting on our hands and
    knees, and pushing against someone's leg.  They would either hold or
    slowly give, depending on which one it is.  (Don't push their knee in,
    push the other way)
    
    The up and down motion would be gotten, also on hands and knees, by
    pushing down into or up into their cupped hands.
    
    Nautilus also has a neck machine, which I like a lot.  You can use it
    to stretch and build strength, and it give opposition over a good range
    of motion.  However, I think it might not go up high enough for some
    props.  I only ever used 0 or 1 plates.
    
    Rachael
8.204ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Mar 25 1991 13:469
    Hmmm.  Glad to hear the season is underway.  Equally glad I wasn't
    at any of the games :-)  The weather was a mess.  Mac, where did
    you guys end up playing?
    
    'Saw - Good luck with the neck strength (and pretzelation).  I'm
    beginning to understand the techniques necessary to prop better
    than I did when I was married to one!!
    
    A&W
8.205Ahh, this must be the front rooowwww!CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 25 1991 13:4726
    I had the occasion to play hooker in a match once (and I did it under
    protest at that).  Just my luck that it was against a visiting English
    side.  Our first side hooker was injured earlier in the week while
    playing for Texas.  Our second side hooker was out of town.  I was the
    new kid on the block so they figured what the heck.  Needless to say,
    everyone realized the error of their ways after 4 or 5 scrums and I was
    back at prop.
    
    Anyone who doesn't play in the front row thinks that anyone who would
    do so is more than a little loco.  While I played in Austin all of the
    hookers and props kicked in $2 each week into the "Front Row Union"
    kitty.  It was a good team building excercise and even though the
    competition among ourselves was pretty tight, we had a real close
    bunch.  We used the money at the end of the year to buy short sleeve
    jerseys in the team colors with the words "Austin RFC Front Row Union"
    emblazoned on the front, and the numerals 1, 2 or 3 printed on the
    back.  We loaned them to the club to use in 7-a-side tournaments that
    year.
    
    The front row is definately not a glamor position.  It is probably the
    only spot on the field where you really get up close and personal with
    your opposite number during the game.  The front row can really help
    set the tone with the first scrummage of the game.  The hooker puts a
    lot of trust into his two props and the props take a lot of pride in
    seeing the hooker winning a lot of ball.  I play second row (aka lock)
    when I have to, but I'll always be a prop.
8.206CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 25 1991 14:0223
    We ended up playing the match on Holy Cross' rugby field.  I guess it's
    also used for football practices.  Actually, the field was in very good
    shape considering the weather.  There were only a couple of puddles. 
    It was tough to see the white lines with all of that snow/freezing
    rain/sleet, though.
    
    I don't know what's going to happen next weekend.  If the area doesn't
    dry out, the state parks department will continue to play hardball with
    us and tell us to move the match (even though a nuclear blast is about
    the only thing that would make that field worse - we do more
    maintenance on that field than the state does.  The City of Worcester
    won't issue a park permit until after April 1.  If Holy Cross has a
    home game we could be in trouble.  Making the match an away game could
    only be inviting more hardships for finding a field - the visiting
    teams are from Pittsfield, MA and Stowe, VT.
    
    Our match secretary obviously wasn't thinking when he scheduled home
    matches this early in the spring.  Although he says he did run the
    schedule by the state first.
    
    'Saw, even with the neck excercises and alot of scrummaging at
    practice, after a tough game at prop, all I can see is my feet when I
    walk off the field ;^).
8.207CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 14:3632
>              <<< Note 8.205 by CHIEFF::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>                   -< Ahh, this must be the front rooowwww! >-

That's got to be the slogan....

    
>    Anyone who doesn't play in the front row thinks that anyone who would
>    do so is more than a little loco.  While I played in Austin all of the

Yup, everyone thinks you're crazy if you want to play there.  Personally,
I think that prop is the gutsiest position on the team, except for 
maybe hooker.  (I know I wouldn't have wanted to hang between those two
slabs of beef like our A-side hooker did last fall!)

>    The front row is definately not a glamor position.  It is probably the
>    only spot on the field where you really get up close and personal with
>    your opposite number during the game.  The front row can really help
>    set the tone with the first scrummage of the game.  The hooker puts a
>    lot of trust into his two props and the props take a lot of pride in
>    seeing the hooker winning a lot of ball.  I play second row (aka lock)
>    when I have to, but I'll always be a prop.

I've got a t-shirt with a great piece of artwork on the front called
The Front Row.  When I get this prop business down it'll be a lot more
enjoyable, and then I'll be able to feel some pride...

As for seeing only your feet, I can understand that, believe me 8^)

'Saw



8.2081991 Hong Kong 7s Results - The Plate for the U.S.!CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 25 1991 15:1838
    Here is some info on the 1991 Hong Kong 7s courtesy of a noter in the
    Rugby conference:
    
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 92.0                      1991 Hong Kong 7's                      3 replies
SUBURB::GROOMN "Swimmers like a length in the pool"  16 lines  25-MAR-1991 14:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    This year's tournament was won by Fiji, beating NZ 18-14 in the finals.
    
    The BaBaa's were beaten 22-14 by Fiji in the Semi's, whils NZ beat
    Canada 26-0.
    
    In the Quarter's, Scotland lost 24-4 to Canada, France lost 30-0 to NZ,
    Fiji beat W. Samoa 21-6 and the BaBaa's beat Oz 16-6.
    
    
    Apparently, the Semi between the BaBaa's and Fiji was the match of the
    tournament.
    
    
    
    Nev.
================================================================================
Note 92.2                      1991 Hong Kong 7's                         2 of 3
SUBURB::GROOMN "Swimmers like a length in the pool"   8 lines  25-MAR-1991 15:38
                              -< Eagles Progress >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    USA Beat Papua New Guinea 22-6 and lost 22-0 to Oz.
    
    By virtue of coming 2nd in their pool they qualified for the Plate
    tournament which they won beating the USSR in the final.
    
    
    Nev.
8.209LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Mar 25 1991 16:0515
    Now, wait a minute, here.  I'll go along with the forwards do all the
    work kind of talk, the backs just worry about their hair and get all
    the credit, but I don't know about this front row elitism. You guys are
    very important for first phase, but come on now, there'd be no second
    phase without an animalistic set of flankers, tearing down the field
    with nothing in mind but fire.
                     
    I keep thinking of other positions to play, because flanker is a glory
    spot and very competetive, but, unfortunately, my skills and interests
    leave me little choice.  
    
    Speaking of skills, Mac, what days do you practice and where do you
    work?  I could use some help sometime in catching for lineouts.
    
    Rachael  
8.210Prop by day, #8 in my dreams ;^)CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 25 1991 16:1324
8.211CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 16:5024
8.212LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Mar 25 1991 17:266
    I just noticed in "New England Runner" (magazine) that there is a class
    for road races called Clydesdale.  And that's what they mean by it.  I
    wish they had a class for no-excuses but fairly slow anyways so I could
    place in my class someday.
    
    Rachael
8.213LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Mar 25 1991 17:3815
    'Saw
    
    Good news and bad news on props and women.
    
    First the good news:
    
    My last boyfriend was a prop.
    
    Now the bad news:
    
    He was my *last* boyfriend.
    
    :^0
    
    Rachael
8.214RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOKenya Roools againMon Mar 25 1991 17:407
    The Clydesdale division is gaining some popularity in road race
    circuits.  It's designed for the 'above average-sized' runner.  It's a
    ploy to let some of the hefty runners win a bauble or two.  
    
    Another step by road racing to award mediocrity.
    
    JD
8.215CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 17:5428
8.216ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Mar 25 1991 18:156
    'Saw -
    
    Why the h e double hockey sticks do you think I like the tight 5
    guys in the *first* place???
    
    A&W
8.217I'm just a Tight Five kinda guy....CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Mar 25 1991 18:3923
>    
>    Why the h e double hockey sticks do you think I like the tight 5
>    guys in the *first* place???
>    


heh, heh, heh.....


Well, someone once told me that a rugby team could have superb backs
(gee, is there any such thing as a superb back?  Aren't they all kind
of conceited, and pretty and all?), an excellent 8man, and two
hell bent for leather flankers, but if they didn't have a good
tight five, they'd never be any good.

I like to believe that, because your tight five is involved in nearly
every set piece that I can think of.

So we tight five guys kind of stick together.  And if our faces look
funny from scrum burn, or our ears are bleeding from scrum ear, 
or if we've got cauliflower ears, you've still gotta love us....

'Saw
8.218CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onTue Mar 26 1991 10:5826
YIPPEEE!!!!!


Finally some media coverage for the Eagles-Scotland game.

There was a decent article in the Hartford Courant this morning.

Here's the ticket info:

		Send a check payable to "USA/Scotland Rugby",
		and a SASE to:

			Hartford Wanderers RFC Inc.
			PO Box 3342
			Hartford, CT 06103

		Prices are $15 per person, $5 for children

		$10 for ADVANCED group sales of 20 or more people.


In addition, NESN will carry the game on tape delay, so watch your
NESN listings as the time approaches.


'Saw
8.219CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onWed Mar 27 1991 11:4323
After Easter, the posters are due out.

I'll have to go around to area stores etc, and put them up.  Sounds
like fun.


Survived practice last night.  Of course not eating a thing all day
and going to practice makes for some very stupid behavior.

Did a lot of lineout work last night.  Mac, I now truly know the
meaning of "Behind every lock is a bloody good prop".  I played
the tighthead's spot in the lineout (3rd man), so I got a lot
of work supporting the first and second jumpers, and I didn't
have to worry about stripping at all.  (Loosehead does the
stripping in our system).   I like playing prop in the lineout 
better than jumping.


No scrums, so I'm able to function normally today 8^)


'Saw

8.221CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onWed Mar 27 1991 12:2716
No, supposedly they are advertising posters for the game.  I imagine
it'd have a photo of the Eagles in a ruck or maul situation.

Depends on the photographer, I guess.

As a forward, when I photograph a match, I tend to concentrate on
forward stuff.  One of the neatest photos I have is of two front
rows coming together -- the intensity in the eys is GREAT.....

Backs tend to like those neat long runs the wings make, to dive
over the try line....

I'll see what I can get.....


'Saw
8.222LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Mar 27 1991 17:4216
    You probably photograph mostly forwards because forwards are the heart
    and soul of the game.  We just let the backs have the ball so they
    don't get pouty.
    
    "We are the forwards as big as Mack trucks,
    We jump high in line-outs and win all the rucks.
    As forwards, we never have time to relax,
    'Cause all our best plays are screwed up by the backs"
    
    Last night I realized we'll be missing 5 of our best players for the
    two weekends following this one, as they'll be in Cardiff for World
    Cup.   I wonder how they can play this weekend, knowing how important
    it is to remain whole.  And we're playing Boston, which has always been
    a physical game.
           
    Rachael
8.223CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onWed Mar 27 1991 18:3922
8.224CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onFri Mar 29 1991 11:5238
Well, had the first enjoyable practice of the season last night.
About f___ing time!

It was warm and breezy, and was finally able to shed the sweats, and
just wear shorts and a rugby shirt.  Ran, stretched and then heard
selections.  Got my first selection as a prop, 3rd side, no surprises
there.

Broke down into components next, with tight fives working on lineouts.
Since Norton was late I filled in with the A side, and really got a 
good idea of what the tighthead does in lineouts.  Fortunately, 
I only have to worry about the first and second jumpers, and don't
have to worry about hauling my ass down the line stripping.

After the lineouts, it was SCRUM time.  Oh boy I thought.  I just
made sure I got on the tighthead side.  I couldn't deal with going
up against Norton again (who'd arrived a few minutes before).

So there we are.  Time to go in, so the Chainsaw remembers all those
times camping in the woods....  Gets his PropButt(tm) really low,
back straight, and goes in on the way UP.  So far so good.
I was playing opposite Doc Lyons, and he's giving me advice before the
ball comes in...  okay cool.  First one, no problem.

Second one, Doc tells me, "Sit back on the second row and flanker".
I try that.  Hey this stuff is getting easier.....

By the time that part of practice was done I was feeling really
good.  I guess technique makes all the difference.  Not that I'm
proficient yet, but I don't think I'll get KILLED tomorrow....


After that, practice went by fairly quickly....First FUN practice
of the season......

'Saw

PS Mac, Hogsbreath says hi.....
8.225Oh, I must be down in the FRONT ROW....CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 12:0483
Okay, first game of the season was on Saturday.

What a strange day Saturday was.  The dog woke me up to let him out
around 5:50 am, and it was raining like hell.  Shit, I said.  Went
back to bed, got up at 8:30 and didn't hear any rain.  Great, I said.
Looked out the window, and it was snowing.  Darn.

Got ready, got in the car and headed to New York.  We were playing
New York RFC, which is the oldest rugby club in the US.  Anyway, 
we were playing at a place called Randall's Island.  You go the
the Triboro bridge, stay in the right lane, and bingo, you're on
the island.  It's in the river between Queens and Manhattan.

By the time I got there, it was sunny, but windy and cold.  The
pitch was not too bad, and it was narrow -- definitely a forward's
field.

I managed to get there in time to see the Hartford Old Boys win
10-0.  I love watching the HoBos play because they're such an inspiration.
You have to be 35 or older to play with them, and they're REALLY intense.

A side kicked off at 1pm, and the first half was close, with Hartford
trailing 4-3.  The second half however, was not good.  We were in it
pretty much all of the time, except there were a lot of little mistakes.
Knock ons, not setting a good platform, fly hacking...  the two BIG
mistakes led to two converted tries by New York, and the final was
16-3.  Quite a few pugilistic endeavours in this one too, and unfortunately
one of the New York backs badly broke his leg.  It was the first time
I ever saw anyone *carried* off a pitch.

B side had an excellent game.  I got the scare of my life in the first
half however, when Greg Orler went down and needed a minute.  I wanna
play B side, no doubt, but I wasn't relishing the thought of playing
my first game at prop as a fill in for the B side.  The Oilman got up, 
everything was cool, and we won 7-0.  This game would have made 
ESPN's Wednesday Night Fights.  Hartford not only won the game, but
they won the fights as well.

C side had some personnel problems.  I realized when I got there that
the other fellow selected to play prop wasn't available.  Hartford
only has 6 props this spring, and the 6th one (not selected) is a 
brand new guy named Thomas.  Thomas is definitely loosehead material.  
He's about 5'6" tall.  So, I'm figuring, okay, Thomas at loosehead, 
me at tighthead, all we need is a hooker.

Well, as game time approaches, it becomes more evident that we really need
a hooker.  So, Thomas switches in to hooker, I move to loosehead, and
Joe Norton says he'll fill in for a half.  Now, I was pretty worried
about playing loosehead, but this was one of those situations where
I had to sink or swim.

Doc Lyons, our veteran prop gave me some good advice before the game.
He told me "You've got a thick upper body.  Let him hold you up.  Eat
him up, get under him and push him up.  Have him dreading each scrum
by game's end"   I thought yeah, if I can.....8^)

We started out, and it was quite a while before we had a scrum.  Well,
that first scrum was interesting, because their tighthead (my opposite)
was only about 5'6" himself, and he had a short lower half, so his butt
was pretty low to begin with.  The first scrum was tough.  The second
wasn't so bad, but I still didn't feel like I was under him.  Thomas
gave me some loosehead advice, and I started working on grabbing the
guy's shoulder and holding him up just a tad as I went in.  My lock
was telling me that my butt was so low he almost couldn't get under
me, so I knew I was starting to get the technique.  Third time was
the charm.  I knew as soon as I pushed he was going up.  He did.

Our pack owned theirs the rest of the day.  Late in the first half,
we walked a scrum 20 yards to give our scrum half a rest....

We won 30-0, and it was a down right fun afternoon.  There were no
fisticuffs because the ref had warned us at the start of the game, 
any swinging and you're gone. 

The best part was Sunday morning....back and neck felt GREAT.

I really think that Saturday was the most enjoyable day I've ever had
on the pitch.  Didn't handle the ball much, stole it in mauls 
a couple of times, but I scrummed well, rucked my a__ off, and
kept their locks off ours in the lineouts....


'Saw
8.226ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Apr 01 1991 12:189
    Randall's Island is a neat place.  The pitch used to be a mess,
    sounds like they've cleaned it up some.  Glad to hear the C side game
    went so well.  Not entirely surprised to hear about the fights -
    I've seen 'em against that club before :-(
    
    Snow on Saturday definitely put a damper on my willingness to go
    outside for *any* reason.  Maybe this week.......
    
    A&W
8.227Weather sucked until we played....CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 12:4023
>    Randall's Island is a neat place.  The pitch used to be a mess,
>    sounds like they've cleaned it up some.  Glad to hear the C side game
>    went so well.  Not entirely surprised to hear about the fights -
>    I've seen 'em against that club before :-(
    
They've moved the pitch this year.  (Course, I never knew where it
was before).  Anyway, we parked under the railroad bridge, and the pitch
was to the south of that, nearer to the water.   

They were a very chippy club, but they were good games nonetheless.

Up until game time I didn't want to play.  Teddy Brennan and I 
were hoping for 25 minute halves!  But, as soon as we got rid of
our sweats, the wind died down, and it was really comfortable playing....

I find the spring a lot harder than the fall.  As it gets colder, all
of my joints really complain a lot.  I personally would rather
sweat my 'nads off in August, than get that chill in my joints that
feels like it's gonna be there until June.  8^)  Winning helps.

later,
'Saw

8.228LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 01 1991 12:4552
    Great play by play, Saw.  Too bad about the A-side game, but it sounds
    like your game went great.  I've always found that watching the A-side
    loose is a great way to get fired up for the next game, although you
    don't want it to happen.

    I'm curious about what you said about grabbing the other prop and
    pushing him up.  If someone did that to me, (and it's been tried), I'd
    do my best to knock their arm clean off.  Other then the
    touch-pause-engage stuff, I won't let the opponent touch me at prop
    with their hand.
    
    I generally don't react well to being held in the game; I will remove
    the person's arm or hand in a way such that they will remember it.
    
    Randall's Island does sound like it's been improved since the last time
    I was there, also.  It's kind of fun plopping down onto it from the
    bridge.  Especially if you're not quite sure where to go and get to
    cross 6 lanes of traffic to do it.  It's kind of funny to hear it
    described as a nice pitch.
    
    We had two matches against Boston.  In the A-game, Beantown went out
    completely flat.  We were mostly in our defensive end, and gave up a
    bunch of penalties to give Boston a 6-0 lead.  (Two kicks)  We got one
    try by half, but were not lit up at all.  It was anxious times on the
    sidelines for us, and the Boston players and fans were quite excited.
    However, about 5 minutes into the second half, the A-side woke up and
    started to execute, and we ended up winning 2?-6.
    
    The B-game was more consistent.  We beat them a few tries to nothing. 
    I was sick and very frustrated with myself.  I could not keep up the
    second half, and missed a tackle I otherwise would have made because I
    was too weak.  Being sick on a weekend is a no win situation for me. 
    If I sit it out, I can't stand not playing.  Basically, if I can walk I
    can't stand not playing.  But if I play and am weak, I get very
    frustrated.  I was crying (frustration) and cussing in the car the
    first part of the way to where we showered.  But, by the time I was
    showered and wearing nice clean clothes I was able to look back and
    feel I'd done well considering.  Getting extremely worked up to play is
    generally an asset to my playing, but it has it's effect when I don't
    do what I feel I can.
    
    Someday soon it will be my weekend to sit in any case, as we have too
    many flankers for even two sides.  One of my buddies had to sit this
    weekend.  One of our second rows sat also, and some of the rookie
    backs.  It's very unusual in recent years to have over two sides on a
    women's club team.  It's very nice, but I'm not looking forward to
    taking my turn out.  Our selectors are trying to be fair about it, and
    make sure the same people don't play or not play every weekend.
    
    Mac, I guess I'll see you tonight.
    
    Rachael
8.229CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 12:5562
>    Great play by play, Saw.  Too bad about the A-side game, but it sounds
>    like your game went great.  I've always found that watching the A-side
>    loose is a great way to get fired up for the next game, although you
>    don't want it to happen.

Had problems getting fired up.  The weather was too much.  Teddy Brennan,
one of our flankers, and I sat in his truck "warming up" before our
game.  We were bitching about the weather, the spring, and everything
else.  But then, once half time in the B game came, we felt that
rugby jones kick in.  Just can't keep the needle out of the arm
I guess....

>    I'm curious about what you said about grabbing the other prop and
>    pushing him up.  If someone did that to me, (and it's been tried), I'd
>    do my best to knock their arm clean off.  Other then the
>    touch-pause-engage stuff, I won't let the opponent touch me at prop
>    with their hand.

Well, it mostly was the touch-pause-engage type stuff, but just before
I'd get under, I'd push just a tad to get a little room.  I tried in the
first time, didn't get head-butted or anything, and kept it up.  Then,
after I was in, I'd slide my hand just back of his shoulder and grab
there -- not all the way down on his ribs.

I haven't played long enough to get the "extra curricular" stuff down,
if you know what I mean.  I'm sure I learn quick enough....

    
>    I generally don't react well to being held in the game; I will remove
>    the person's arm or hand in a way such that they will remember it.
    
I'll have to watch this in the future, just in case ;^)


>    Randall's Island does sound like it's been improved since the last time
>    I was there, also.  It's kind of fun plopping down onto it from the
>    bridge.  Especially if you're not quite sure where to go and get to
>    cross 6 lanes of traffic to do it.  It's kind of funny to hear it
>    described as a nice pitch.


What a zoo getting there!  They've moved the pitch, and it wasn't too
bad.  It was much better than the pitch where played Old Gold last season.
    
>    We had two matches against Boston.  In the A-game, Beantown went out
>    started to execute, and we ended up winning 2?-6.

Congrats!

    
>    The B-game was more consistent.  We beat them a few tries to nothing. 
>    I was sick and very frustrated with myself.  I could not keep up the

I know what you mean.
    
>    Someday soon it will be my weekend to sit in any case, as we have too

With only 6 props, I don't think I'll be sitting out too much.....


'Saw

8.230LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 01 1991 13:1831
>Had problems getting fired up.  The weather was too much.  Teddy Brennan,
>one of our flankers, and I sat in his truck "warming up" before our
>game.  We were bitching about the weather, the spring, and everything

    My college graduation present to myself was a rainsuit that I can run
    in.  I've got low-tech pants and a high-tech jacket, but both are
    waterproof and windproof.  Last weekend and
    the one before my feet were numb in the front half, but the rest of me
    was ok.  It's especially important for us, because we are expected to
    warm up with the A-side (involves sitting on wet ground), and be ready
    on the sidelines throughout.  Not to mention being physically able to
    play next.  I had to spend a game in someone's car once before I got
    the suit, and spent many very unpleasant weekends at tourneys.
    

>I haven't played long enough to get the "extra curricular" stuff down,
>if you know what I mean.  I'm sure I learn quick enough....

    Mac, what do you think?  I think that I have an unusually low tolerance
    for this kind of stuff.  Maybe because I'm relatively small, if someone
    holds me it really bothers me.
    
    This week we start practicing outdoors.  Hopefully, that will enable us
    to come out ready to play, instead of farting around the first half
    hour or so.  The big plus for me is I can start bringing my dog to
    practice; she was bummed at being left home while we were in the gym.
    
    Rachael
    
    
8.231CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 14:0056
>    My college graduation present to myself was a rainsuit that I can run
>    in.  I've got low-tech pants and a high-tech jacket, but both are
>    waterproof and windproof.  Last weekend and


I just have some heavy Champion sweats.  Obviously no good in the
rain, but I can usually tough it out for a practice.

It was funny last fall.  We practiced in one large downpour, and the temps
were around 50.  (Now that figure seems balmly, then it was a bit
cool).  It was raining so hard that to get a drink all I had to
do was open my mouth -- water would run into my moutch from my
mouthpiece.  AFter practice, it was dark, but in the parking lot
there were 40 guys stripping off wet clothes, buck naked.  Then we
got in our cars and managed to get dry clothes on our wet bodies...
(Can anyone say Gladiator movies?)

This spring has been cold for me, though.

As a C side prop, I dress for the B game.  Just in case, but I don't
have to warm up with them.  

A lot of the guys have green and black warmups from the New Zealand
tour, but I only have the jacket.  No big deal.

Saturday was just tough because it was SO windy.  Once the wind died
down, we had a fine, fun day....
    

>    Mac, what do you think?  I think that I have an unusually low tolerance
>    for this kind of stuff.  Maybe because I'm relatively small, if someone
>    holds me it really bothers me.
    
I've heard bits and pieces of extra curricular advice.  One prop told
me to head butt the hooker every chance I get.  Another told me to do 
anything I can get away with.

I have problems with stuff like that, because I always like to play
fair straight up, until someone messes with me.  There was a lot
of stomping going on Saturday, but I didn't do any (maybe I should have
I don't know).

The other problem I have is that, being so new, I'm not always totally
sure what's allowed.  Example:  Our player is carrying the ball, gets
stood up by an opponent who turns him.  We go in to try and seal off
and by this time, we've held off the other opponents, and their guy
is stuck in the middle of us.  Is he offsides?  Can I wail on him,
or pull him out of there?

I can usually tell when a guy is fringing, and I'll clean him, but
some of the more complicated stuff makes me hesitate a split second, 
and the last thing i want is to give up 3 points on a kick to goal for
one of my actions.....8^)

'SAw

8.232LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 01 1991 14:1222
    I agree that playing clean is the best way.  The game has plenty of
    opporrtunity for hitting, romping, snorting, grunting, etc., I don't
    see any need to play dirty.  But if someone does it to me, then I will
    retaliate.
    
    I've had problems before with figuring what's legal and what's not.  In
    answer to your specific example, if the opponent went in on-sides,
    which he did, and then gets turned around within a ruck or maul, he may
    continue to drive in his own direction without being called offsides as
    long as he is bound in.   I think you generally don't see that too
    much, as he is probably not in a very effective place and should be
    attempting to exit the play and reenter on-sides, low, and driving.
    
    Another play which people often think is dirty but isn't is fending. 
    You are allowed to push your opponent away from you with you hand.  I
    think what's illegal is to straight-arm, to run at them with you arm
    straight out, but who would want to do that anyways, if they value
    their elbows?  Fending someone off can be a very effective way to avoid
    a mediocre tackle.
    
    Rachael
    
8.233ISLNDS::WASKOMMon Apr 01 1991 14:2212
    'Saw -
    
    Give it the full season before you decide whether you prefer spring
    or fall.  Something about having the weather get continually *better*
    as the season progresses is wonderful.  (As spectator, I never wanted
    the spring season to end.  Fall season always lasted at least 2
    weeks too long.)
    
    Also, NESN was advertising that they're going to have rugby on.
    No dates or times yet.......
    
    A&W
8.234CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 15:1940
>    I agree that playing clean is the best way.  The game has plenty of
>    opporrtunity for hitting, romping, snorting, grunting, etc., I don't
>    see any need to play dirty.  But if someone does it to me, then I will
>    retaliate.

Yeah, that's kind of my philosophy....

    
>    I've had problems before with figuring what's legal and what's not.  In
>    answer to your specific example, if the opponent went in on-sides,
>    which he did, and then gets turned around within a ruck or maul, he may
>    continue to drive in his own direction without being called offsides as
>    long as he is bound in.   I think you generally don't see that too
>    much, as he is probably not in a very effective place and should be
>    attempting to exit the play and reenter on-sides, low, and driving.

Yeah.  Mainly what I've seen happen is the opponent stands up our
ballcarrier, and turns him towards his team to have them strip the
ball. His back is to me as I come in.  If we seal off, then he ends
up in the midst of our part of the maul.....


    
>    Another play which people often think is dirty but isn't is fending. 
>    You are allowed to push your opponent away from you with you hand.  I
>    think what's illegal is to straight-arm, to run at them with you arm
>    straight out, but who would want to do that anyways, if they value
>    their elbows?  Fending someone off can be a very effective way to avoid
>    a mediocre tackle.
    
A friend of mine told me that British schoolboys are taught to get that
hand right to the face.  Then my friend showed me...hurt like hell 8^)
I try to get a forearm up, but most times as a tight forward, the few times
I'm a ball carrier, I'm looking to turn and set, or pass.  But, the more
I progress in the game, the more I'll expect to carry the ball ;^)


thanks,
'Saw    

8.235CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 15:2327
>    Give it the full season before you decide whether you prefer spring
>    or fall.  Something about having the weather get continually *better*
>    as the season progresses is wonderful.  (As spectator, I never wanted
>    the spring season to end.  Fall season always lasted at least 2
>    weeks too long.)


My only problem is the practice angle.  February is not a month
I want to be out pounding the pavement in a parking lot in the
dark.  

In the summer, like August, I'm gonna sweat like hell and bitch about the
heat, but about 5 or 10 minutes into the opening jog, my muscles are
loose, and my joints feel good.

In February, it seems that I never really got warm during practice.  Our
new captains rush the stretches, and so consequently I'm doing neat
things like straining hamstrings etc.

I didn't have a problem in the fall because it was already at the end
of the season when it got cold, and my body was beat up already. 8^)

I'm sure playing in May or late April will make up for all that though.

'Saw

PS  Everyone I know hates spring season 8^)
8.236CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onMon Apr 01 1991 17:2623
A few April events that Noters might like to take in:


JD and the Seattle Crew:

	April 12-14	Pacific Coast Club Championship

	If I'm not mistaken the champ from this tournament is in
	the Final Four.


Atlanta folks (ACC Chris?)

	April 13-14	Peachtree Invitational



That's all I found that might apply.  The Western Club Championship
is on April 27-28 in Dallas (another Final Four entrant) but no one
in here is in Texas any more, that I know of....


'Saw
8.237CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 02 1991 15:1537
8.238CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 02 1991 15:4616
8.239Brush up your Shakespeare!CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 02 1991 16:2211
    This Thursday, April 4, Stratford-Upon-Avon RFC (from England) will be
    playing the Worcester RFC at 4:30 pm at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake
    Ave. in Worcester, MA.
    
    Admission is Free.
    
    For more information, send me mail.
    
    We have been having problems with field availability due to the
    weather.  Location of the match is subject to change with little to no
    notice.
8.240CAM::WAYProps have great shoulders to lean onWed Apr 03 1991 12:0629
>    I will on occasion clean out an
>    opposing lock in the lineout rather than doing a bind.  I will step on
>    someone who is covering up the ball in a ruck - well, more of a push
>    them out of the way with my cleats then a step.

In the lineout, that's what I kind of do, especially if the ref is
at the back end.  Since I'm the 3rd man, or have been lately, what
I try to do is this:  if the ball is up the line to #2, then I hook
him kind of.  In other word, I take my far arm, bind him, doing a
180 to face towards our goal, keeping my other arm free in case I
need to bat the ball down on an overthrow.

If the throw is down the line, then I barge their lock, and at the
same time try to bind on my lock.

That's the theory, anyway 8^)


>    If you try to pull him out of there, 9 times out of 10 you will be
>    penalized.  The best thing to do is to lower your shoulder and plow
>    into him to drive the ruck/maul forward.  I don't advocate a kidney
>    shot, but hit him where he'll get the message.

That's what I do now.  I also will try to get in and pry his arms
off my guy.....


'Saw

8.241International RugbyEDUOZ::THURGARThu Apr 04 1991 20:577
    If you want to know how it is really done get some videos of the All
    Blacks. They really know about hard (but clean) forward play - and this
    from an Aussie. Just to make you jealous I have just got tickets to
    Aust V New Zealand and Aust V England. Will keep you informed on the
    international scene.
    
    Madge
8.242CAM::WAYHWRFC ClydesdaleFri Apr 05 1991 11:5921
>    If you want to know how it is really done get some videos of the All
>    Blacks. They really know about hard (but clean) forward play - and this
>    from an Aussie. Just to make you jealous I have just got tickets to
>    Aust V New Zealand and Aust V England. Will keep you informed on the
>    international scene.
    
Best All Blacks video I saw was the unsanctioned South Africa tour.

I remember where the guy from South Africa wailed on the All Blacks
hooker, broke his jaw and knocked him unconscious.

One thing about the All Blacks and rugby at that level is the way
the forwards consistently consolidate second and third phase ball,
and provide an excellent platform for the backs.  Seeing props moving
around like flankers blows my mind....

My favorite thing about the All Blacks is the War Chant they do before
the game.  That's one thing I'd LOVE to learn.....8^)


'Saw
8.243Match Report: Stratford RFC vs WRFCAGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 05 1991 14:2842
Stratford-Upon-Avon (England) RFC has been touring New England for the past
week or so.  They won their first game by beating Newport RFC and dropped
their second game to Springfield RFC.  Last night (4/4) they played Worcester 
RFC.  The game kicked off at 4:30 PM under beautiful weather conditions.  The 
field was in fantastic shape.  Stratford was looking to make up for their loss 
to Springfield and Worcester was trying to pull out of the funk they've been 
in since last fall.  I was added to the starting roster when one of our props 
decided the flu was getting the best of him.

This game was hard-hitting, smash-mouth rugby at its finest.  The tone was set 
early as Worcester went into the rucks low and hard with the cleats flying.  
Noone from either team left the field without the marks of someone's boots on
them.  The first scrum emphasized this style of play as the referee didn't
enforce the crouch-touch-pause-engage rule and the front rows came at each
other like a pair of mountain goats.   Worcester tended to stay with the 
rucking game, while Stratford employed the rolling maul.  As a result, the 
wings didn't see much ball.

Worcester drew first blood by scoring a pretty try about 5 minutes into the 
match.  We pretty much controlled the game for the rest of the half.  We 
committed some stupid penalties, but fortunately their kicker was having a bad 
day.  We could have gone into half-time trailing, but we managed to maintain a 
6-3 lead.  The intensity really picked up in the second half.  A few tempers 
flared, but the ref kept good control of the game.  It was a back and forth 
struggle from there with both sides threatening.  Worcester again gave up a 
couple of stupid penalties, but their kicker held true to form.  Stratford 
launched one last ditch effort in the last 10 minutes.  They kept hammering 
away at the Worcester defense, to no avail.  At one point a scrum was awarded 
to Stratford 5-10 meters out from our try line.  They won the ball and put in 
two extra players to try to push the scrum in.  Worcester held and Stratford 
had to take the ball out and try to spin it out to their backs.  We forced 
them into touch and won the ensuing lineout and were able to clear it with a 
kick to touch.  After a couple more skirmishes, the final whistle blew after
what seemed to be an eternity, and Worcester found themselves with a 6-3 win.  
This was the first time in a long time that Worcester had defeated a touring 
side.  We finally found the intensity and commitment that we've been lacking.  
Here's hoping that we can keep it.

Next game for Worcester is tomorrow at Quinsigamond State Park in Worcester at 
1 PM against Old Gold.  Stratford left for Boston today and will finish their
New England tour with a match against Old Gold on Sunday.
    
8.244Match Report - WRFC vs Old Gold RFCCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 08 1991 15:3148
    After an exhilarating win over Stratford-Upon-Avon, Worcester crashed
    and burned against Old Gold.  Old Gold pulled off a clean sweep by
    winning the A game 12-3, the B game 6-3, and the C game 4-0. 
    
    Worcester's A side in particular lacked the intensity shown in Thursday
    night's win.  The team that took the field was almost identical to that
    which beat the visiting Englishmen.  Only 3 changes were made - the
    standoff was at a wedding, and I and the other last minute replacement
    from Thursday were dropped in favor of those players originally named
    to the squad.  Worcester appeared to have the territorial and
    possession advantage in the first half, but only had 3 points to show
    for it.  I think the score might have been 3-0 at halftime.  The game
    was in danger of getting out of hand a few times as fisticuffs broke
    out.  The intensity shown against the English on Thursday begat good
    rugby.  On Saturday against Old Gold, however, it just deteriorated
    into one-on-one confrontations.  I didn't see much of the second half
    as I was busy getting ready for the B game.  I did come on as a
    replacement at loosehead prop late in the game.  The energy that could
    be felt throughout the game on Thursday just wasn't there.  Old Gold
    scored a try late off of 3rd phase possession to seal the game.
    
    The energy/intensity level of the B side was better, but still wasn't
    enough.  The game was very helter skelter.  Neither side was doing a
    good job of consolidating the ball.  The Worcester pack showed
    dominance in the scrums as we won a few against the head and did a good
    job of getting them backpedalling on the balls they did win. 
    Unfortunately, that didn't carry over into 2nd phase.  Old Gold did a
    better job of getting to the ball, and our backs were having trouble
    making the gain line which didn't help our situation at all.  Worcester
    clung to a 3-0 lead for most of the game, but Old Gold scored a try
    late to earn them the victory.
    
    It was a typical C side match.  Both teams had a mixture of fresh
    players and some who had played in the previous matches.  It was a lot
    of back and forth, helter/skelter type play.  Old Gold notched the only
    score late in the game with a try.
    
    I'd like to thank A&W and John Hendry for coming down to the match. 
    I'm just sorry we couldn't put on a better show.
    
    Worcester will be on the road for the next few weeks with games in
    Schenectady, NY, Boston (Charles River and then Boston), and Hartford,
    CT.  Next home match is against another touring side on May 11.  This
    will be my last match report for a couple of weeks.  After the
    Schenectady game, I'll be heading west for some vacation and the Austin
    Rugby Tournament.  Then you'll be able to compare the reports posted by
    Frank and I from opposite sides of the pitch with the
    Hartford/Worcester match.
8.245LVIRA::WASKOMMon Apr 08 1991 16:1813
    'Twas a beautiful day to spectate.  A little too warm to be comfortable
    to play, I suspect, especially so early in the season.  Old Gold was
    their usual obnoxious selves on the side lines, screaming at the ref
    about missed calls, when he was actually blowing an equal number on
    both sides of the ball.  Biggest problem I saw was that every time a
    run got going, on either side, there was some sort of infraction. 
    Resulted in very choppy play.  Worcester couldn't *buy* a scrum or maul
    after the first quarter of the A side game, which made things that much
    worse.
    
    'Twas a pleasure to meet Mac and his family.
    
    A&W
8.246CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 08 1991 16:453
    Good point on the flow, A&W.  The ref on Thursday tended to overlook
    minor infractions and played the advantage well.  This resulted in a
    very free flowing game.  The ref on Saturday blew up everything.
8.247LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 08 1991 17:0131
    It wasn't too hot for me, down in the deep South (Monmouth, NJ).
    (Monmoth?)  It's hard to make it too hot for me to play.  I slow down,
    but not as much as other people so it works out well for me.  I love
    playing in August.
    
    Mac, I played against Old Gold once, but it was many years ago.  I
    wouldn't imagine that Worcester loses to them often.
    
    The A-side played the Monmouth Renegades.  We ran in a beautiful try
    early in the game, starting at an unusually quick pace for us.  Then we
    spent a lot of the rest of the first half in our own end, coming back
    stronger in the second half to win twenty-something to zero.
    
    As for the real fun, the B-side played University of Long Island, mixed
    with a few Monmoth players and one of our own. Now for the reason we
    don't generally play college sides.  With steady but realtively
    minimal effort and a great deal of team play, we beat them 50-4.  At
    least 3 tackles were pathetically missed for their try, but it didn't
    really matter.  We earned 10 tries and 5 conversions.  Best of all, our
    player who played for them said they weren't down at all and had
    enjoyed the game.  It was one of the most enjoyable games I've had in
    ages, not because of how much we won by, but by how great it felt to be
    out there with my teammates.  We were in great harmony with each other. 
    Most of the tries, if not all, were the result of 5-8 people making a
    good connection, one after another.
    
    And this with 6 A-side players in Europe for World Cup.  From the rugby
    notesfile, the US won their first game, but not very convincingly at
    7-0 against the Netherlands.
    
    Rachael
8.248CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Mon Apr 08 1991 18:03105
Sorry I'm late wtih this match report, but it took me all day to get this
workstation up.....

Saturday was a *beautiful* day for rugby.  We got down to Stamford, CT,
for a mixed day of matches.  Some of us would play Danbury, some Stamford.

We arrived while the Stamford A side was playing Pulburough RFC, another
English touring side.  I think it was a college side, because the 
Division II Stamford Club (now called the Connecticut Yankees actually)
was handling them easily.  They did have the typical English spirit however,
and I for one warmed to their supporters constant cheering of
"C'mon Pul'bra, c'mon lads!"

Our A side stepped off against Danbury A side at 1pm.  We had a double
Eagle backfield, comprised of Tom Vinick at fly half and Glen Judge at
fullback.  It was a great game.  Danbury actually scrummed pretty well,
and at one point in time I saw their loosehead lift our tighthead Joe
Norton (who goes about 270).  We dominated however, and after giving
up the first try to Danbury, we just annihilated them with great rucking,
superb play from the backs, and just better all round skills.
The score had to be 40's to 7.

Our B side played Stamford B's and again, dominated play.  Most of the
play for most of the game was in the Stamford end, and the final score
I believe was 48-0.

C side.  My opportunity to shine.  We broke a good sweat during warmups,
and our captain for our side, Barney Kelly gave a great speech, telling
us that not only were we going to give them a rugby clinic, but we were
going to outclass them by being first to the lineouts, and first to the
scrums.

We received, and while waiting I looked over the opponents trying to find
their loosehead.  As I was playing tighthead, I wanted a look at the
guy I'd be scrumming against....  Turns out the guy was a Jerry Garcia
clone, who looked like Jesus on a bad trip.

Anyway, we get to the first lineout, and I shook the guys hand.  He was
a hot shit, kept up a running commentary throughout the game.....

Our play was characterized by OUTSTANDING rucking.  The only time they
came close to beating us was if our tacklers didn't get their ballcarrier
down.  So, if the first Wanderer in stood the guy up, the rest of us
made sure we rucked over everything in our way.  Once the ball was on
the ground, we owned it.

Scrumming.  The first scrum was hairy.  I had a new lock behind me, who
hasn't been weaned from me giving him the waistband of my shorts.  As a
result, when Danbury came in like Mac's Mountain Goats, I wasn't quite
ready, and barely got in.  The most unpleasant part of that scrum was
the fact that as I was sucking wind, I got a mouthful of Jerry Garcia's
hair.

Anyway, I soon told Chuck (the lock) that I needed my arm to fend off
their loosehead as he was coming in, and that he'd have to grab whatever
he could, as long as it wasn't my you-know-what.  He did a superb job
in NOT grabbing that, and gave a good push all afternoon.

About halfway through the first half, their hooker started bitchin' at
me something fierce.  Being new to the game, I couldn't imagine WHAT
I could be doing to him.  I asked my hooker what his problem was, and
John said ignore him.  Well, as time went on, things got hotter, and
I really thought he and I were gonna end up goin' at it, but at half
time, as we switched ends, he ran buy and gave me five with a big smile.

After the fact, (ie Sunday morning at wake up time) I found that I'd
scrummed HARD, but it wasn't like going up against the studs from Hartford
A side in practice....

We only let them get one try in the second half, and a late penalty gave
them 7 points.  We had well over 40.  I made a lot of the rucks and stuff,
even though I need to lose more weight to get around.  I could have had
my first try if I'd been about 10 pounds lighter, I'm *sure*....

After the game, I sought out their hooker to find out what the problem
was.  Over beers, he laughed as I told him I was a new prop, and wanted
to know what the problem was.  He smiled and said "You were knocking
the sh_t outta me all day.  I told my loosehead to stick his shoulder
in your ear or something to get you off me, but he couldn't do it."

He then went on to tell me that I had a lot of power in the scrum, and
to keep on working hard.  That made me feel good, because I'm NEVER going
to challenge anyone for the Wanderers scoring title.   He also told
me that I shoud play hooker, because most props are going 280-300, and
I'm 6' 235.  I smiled.  (Hey, maybe at international level I'd be a hooker,
but I haven't seen too many props that big around here 8^))

Anyway, that made my day.  I'd wondered about switching from the loosehead
"protect your own hooker" mindset, to the agressive "eat the opposing hooker"
mindset needed for tighthead.  I found that by ignoring Jerry Garcia,
and just concentrating on getting my head right into the hooker and then
doing what props do, I did ok.....

The greatest pleasure was the fact the the Hartford Old Boys played
Pulborough AFTER our game.  I changed up, grabbed a beer, and watched
some excellent rugby as the HoBos defeated the English, 7-4....



Mac, can't believe you guys had a hard time with Old Gold.  Musta been
the Thursday night game, and an off day....


Washington DC this weekend,
'Saw
8.249CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 08 1991 18:2139
8.250CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Mon Apr 08 1991 18:3343
8.251CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 10:2018
Fitness question/survey....

Mac and Rachael (and any other rugby fanatics)....

What do you guys do for workouts and fitness.  I'm not talking practice,
but I'm talking off nights during the season and off-season.

I've been thinking about joining a gym.  Ideally, from what I've heard,
I'd like access to Nautilus and Free Weights.  Cycles would be nice too,
because I've gotten so tired of running on the road in cold weather.

I'm not looking to get cut up like a body builder, just transfer some of
the mass I already have into some upper body muscle mass.  A lot of the folks
on HWRFC use a combo of Nautilus and Free weights....

Any opinions, suggestions?

'Saw
8.252LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 11:2742
    Well, since entering the happily-married-and-more-incentive-to-stay-at-
    home-and-turn-into-spoo state, I've done very little.  But I'm ramping
    up again.  Right now I mostly run, 2-3 times a week in addition to
    practice.  Sometimes I run hills or quarters with some guys here, but
    mostly I go out and do a hilly 3.5 mile loop that's right near here. 
    When I come back to the Shape room, I will do some pull-ups and dips.
    I run 10K's occaisionally, I ran the Milk Run on Sunday with my dog.
    
    When I was in my prime, (which I still intend to surpass,) before I
    settled down with someone that will think I'm beautiful if I weigh
    250lbs, I used to run about 3 times a week and during the summer lift
    free weights 3 times a week.
    
    I also played college hockey with practice 4 times a week plus games  
    during the winter for four years, which really built up my legs a lot 
    and gave me a lot more speed then I used to have.
    
    I think the best thing for me during the season is to make it out to
    run at least 3 times, and do the pullups (I've made it up to 6, best, I'm
    down a bit now) and sets of dips.  Given that I have limited time with
    practice, night school, another evening meeting, not to mention doing
    the laundry and shopping with many weekends spent away, that's a good
    amount of time to aim for.  As a flanker, what I need to do is to run
    around the field like mad the entire game and tackle, and that will
    give me the endurance and strength to do so.  This summer, we'll be
    lifting weights more.  I tend not to lift much during the season
    because my body needs to heal.
    
    I vote strongly for free weights.  The only Nautilus machine that you
    can't really do with free weights is the neck machine, which I used to
    do and really recommend for all rugby players and props especially. A
    lot of the Nautilus machines are good, but they'll let you cheat more
    then free weights.  (ie, you can push in a variety of directions but
    the weights will still travel the same path.  With free weights,
    they'll only go where you push them)
    
    Don't underestimate the importance of running for a prop.  I've
    followed our A-side prop around the field before, that's why she's the
    National side prop.  You need to be strong to push, but if you're so
    tired by the time you get there that all you can do is lean in...
    
    Rachael
8.253oops, my goofLEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 11:443
    re .247 
    
    I lied.  The US played Holland, not the Netherlands.
8.254CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 09 1991 12:0519
    This season, with the move and all, I'm kind of playing my way into
    shape.  So far it's working, but I am going to step it up a bit.  A guy
    in my group is working on me to run with him at lunchtime.  I did get
    some running and stationary bike work in before regular practices
    started which helped.
    
    In the past I've filled my off season with basketball, running the WPI
    gym stairs with some friends, weight work on Nautilus and Universal
    machines, running at lunchtime (2-3 miles), and cycling in a gym and at
    home (~30 min.).  In the summer time I usually work out with the guys
    on the 7s team.  It's fun and a good workout.  The last few seasons in
    Austin I'd do some aerobic walking with some co-workers during the
    season.  This gave me a decent aerobic workout and didn't add too much
    additional wear and tear on the knees and ankles.  I've found that to
    be effective, my workouts must be done with others or I tend to lose my
    motivation.  Playing games like basketball and touch 7s help with the
    motivation factor as well since I like the competition.  I've never
    developed the ability to run/lift just for the sake of it.  I do it to
    get in shape for rugby.
8.255Women's World Cup UpdateCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 09 1991 12:1112
    Women's World Cup results to date (courtesy of VNS)
    
RUGBY UNION
   Women's World Cup (Cardiff) - Results from weekend and yesterday:
   Pool 1: New Zealand 24 Canada 8
           Wales 9 Canada 9
   Pool 2: France 62 Japan 0
           France 37 Sweden 0
   Pool 3: United States 7 Netherlands 0
           Netherlands 28 USSR 0
   Pool 4: England 12 Spain 0
           England 25 Italy 9
8.257CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 12:2021
Okay...

I'm running now.  Did 3 miles last night, have practice tonight, and will
do 3 again tomorrow night.

I'm not real familiar with Nautilus....what's the neck machine?

Was doing some lifting last fall, and it helped.  I too hate to lift
just for the sake of lifting.  It has to be the most boring thing to
do on God's Green Earth.  I also noticed as the season progressed that
just playing rugby developed my neck and shoulders somewhat.  What I'm 
hoping to do is add to that....

I hear ya about following the props.  We have two types of props on
HWRFC...  We've got a couple of mobile guys who love carrying the ball,
and then we've got a couple who don't get around quite as quickly.  I'm 
in the latter set right now, but hope, with lots of work this spring,
and a good hard summer, to be in the former set by the fall season...

thanks for the advice,
'Saw
8.258CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 12:2717
I've never seen the Japanese lady ruggers, but I've seen the men on
a couple of hightlight tapes.

Now, they don't have any really BIG guys.  I mean the props I saw didn't
look that big.  I think they do what they do mostly on technique.

One nice thing about Japan is that the Eagles can kick their ass when
they play them.  That's really cool, because there aren't many teams
that the Eagles can kick ass with.  

But, don't underestimate them.  They're always in the hunt, while not
a member of the Big Seven....


Swedish lady ruggers...hmmmmm ;^)

'Saw
8.259LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 12:536
    FYI, you don't need to go to Sweden to get a blond rugby-playing
    girlfriend.
    
    :^)
    
    Rachael
8.261CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 13:2315
Hawk, 

I could just see you with a Swedish lady rugger.  

She'd have you all taped up, with a pair of Adidas Flankers on, a mouth
guard in, and you'd be standing there not know what to do, when next
thing you know, she yells "Grips, Sync, In" and she's coming at you
like you're the opposite front row....  Hey, whatta way to go though, eh?


Geez, maybe you'd better stick with a back...like a nice, sedate,
weak side wing....


'Saw
8.262RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOThen Came BronsonTue Apr 09 1991 13:313
    FWIW:  Holland==Netherlands==Dutch
    
    
8.263LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 13:3720
    Speaking of adidas flankers, any ideas on boots?  Mine are getting very
    marginal.  I've always worn replacable cleats, but I think I want to
    try a pair of molded.  Low tops, like soccer cleats, decent leather.
    Any suggestions on brands or stores to go to?  I've always gone to
    Brine's in Harvard square (ask the owner about me sometime, the Dad of
    all those kids that work in the store...) and I really like the store
    and the staff, but they're, uh, not an outlet store.  I don't really
    need a wide selection, I just need a good boot that doesn't cost too
    much.  
    
    My first pair of cleats was Puma.  They're still good, they're my
    backup pair and are currenty in better shape then the Lotto's I have
    now.  I've bought Mitre cleats and would not do so again, not being
    interested in disposable shoes.  Maybe I should go to the Puma outlet
    in Marlboro...
    
    The store needs to carry kids sizes, else they probably won't have them
    small enough for me.
    
    Rachael
8.264CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 13:5316
I'm hardly an expert, but I've had great luck with my flankers.

I prefer the high tops...the support really helps.


I got mine from Godeks.  I called up, not knowing anything other than
I wanted some rugby boots and that I was a forward.  The lady was
very knowledgable, very helpful, and I found that I paid a decent price
for them.  

Their number is 1-800-336-3446....

Other than that I don't know.....

later,
'Saw
8.265LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 14:1712
    The ole blond rugby player wears flankers when she's being a second
    row, but they're not really suitable for flanking.  Don't ask me why
    they're named flanker.  There's a trade-off between speed and {ankle 
    support and toe protection}, and I don't need either of the latter out
    loose.
    
    Thanks for reminding me about Matt Godek's though.  We'll be in
    Arlington this weekend, maybe we can go in person.  I'd also imagine
    they'll have a truck at the tourney.  I went there once when I was in
    high school, but I wasn't playing yet.  I just wanted a jersey.
    
    Rachael
8.267MCIS1::DHAMELI need some sensible shortsTue Apr 09 1991 15:3310
    
    FWIW, Hawksternugen, charcoal grey pumas are extremely rare, and I
    don't think you'll find any of the brown ones either in this part of
    the country.  Maybe the Colorado noters can assist if you want to
    seriously hunt for them.
    
    Hey, glad to help.
    
    Dickstah
    
8.268CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 15:5220
>    The ole blond rugby player wears flankers when she's being a second
>    row, but they're not really suitable for flanking.  Don't ask me why
>    they're named flanker.  There's a trade-off between speed and {ankle 
>    support and toe protection}, and I don't need either of the latter out
>    loose.

Unfortunately for me, my flankers toe protection is about gone.
My right foot, from the instep to the ends of my toes has hurt constantly
all season long.  Believe it or not I get stepped on mainly in lineouts!

Flankers are good, except that I've heard that the upper can separate
back around the heel area, so I try never to use that tab to pull them
on.

Also, they have a weird length shoelace.  The lady at Godek's told me
54" so that's what I ordered, but I think the length of the original laces
is somewhere between 54" and 72"......
    

'Saw
8.270CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 17:3213
Okay, Hawk,  yer catchin' on.....

Now, I think the next lesson will be to get you to a drink up and have
you learn some of the "neat" songs and poems and things....


"why are we waiting, why are we waiting....."


'saw
    
    

8.271LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 17:455
    'Saw
    	Hawk needs to learn to shoot the boot as his first rugby skill. 
    Preferably on a hot, yet muddy day.
    
    Rachael
8.272CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 09 1991 17:5212
>    'Saw
>    	Hawk needs to learn to shoot the boot as his first rugby skill. 
>    Preferably on a hot, yet muddy day.

Ouch!

Perhaps this could be arranged, if El Hawko has the machismo to show
up in Harfaa on May 4....  You could give him a clinic ;^)

What say you, Hawkstah?

'Saw
8.273LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 09 1991 19:432
    The Adidas flanker is a popular model for the activity...
    
8.274CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Wed Apr 10 1991 11:4821
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Tough, tough practice last night.

Started with a two-mile timed run.  The unfortunate part was that
I had not put my running shoes back into my kit, so that I was 
forced to wear my everyday sneakers on the run.  The other unfortunate
part was that practice started that way.....

Then, in scrumming drills later on I royally f___ed up my back.
I was scrumming against Joe Norton again (when am I gonna learn not
to loosehead against this guy?) and all of a sudden the muscle just
went "pop" and into immediate spasm.  Spent the rest of practice (only
about 15 more minutes) jogging and trying to stretch it out...

The good part of all this was that I lost five pounds yesterday -- no
doubt mostly water 8^)

'Saw    

8.276Mac on BootsCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 10 1991 14:2031
    For rugby boots over the years I've worn Cotton Oxfords, Cotton Oxford
    Grand Slams, Adidas Flankers, and Mitre Venoms.  Playing in the tight
    five I prefer a high top boot (too bad the Adidas Lions aren't
    available over here) with a hard toe and 8 studs on the bottom.  From
    what I've seen of what other guys wear, there isn't too much difference
    in boot lifetime.  For that reason I usually stuck with whatever I
    could get for the least amount of money.  
    
    The Cotton Oxfords used to be a really good boot.  Very comfortable
    fit, reasonable lifetime, and the cheapest boot on the market.  I think
    they've gone downhill in the last few years (and the price has gone
    up).  I switched to Adidas Flankers and was pretty happy with them.  I
    purchased a second pair when I was able to get a good deal on one of my
    U.K. tours.  
    
    I'm now wearing Mitre Venoms.  They are the bargain basement version of
    the Mitre Barbarians.  So far they are holding up very well and are
    very comfortable.  They have a padded ankle support and semi-hard toes. 
    They are pretty lightweight for a pack boot as well.  The one thing I
    didn't like about them was the cleat type they came with.  They are
    long and narrow and definitely designed for the lush manicured fields
    of the U.K.  One of the guys I played with in Austin snapped one clean
    off while playing on the hard grounds of Texas.
    
    One of the flankers I played with in Austin swore by Lasers.  They were
    a low-cut 6-stud boot made in New Zealand.  They are supposedly made
    from kangaroo leather and are very lightweight and flexible.  They are
    also quite expensive; about $120/pair (he didn't mind too much since he
    was able to get a discount through the Western select side).  The first
    pair he had tore on the side and Laser replaced them with a new pair no
    questions asked.  The second pair has held up pretty well.
8.278CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Wed Apr 10 1991 15:2515
>>                       -< What, no Reebok Rugby Pumps? >-

    
That's the biggest joke on our team right now.

It's like, before scrum practice, someone will reach down, and pretend
to pump their boot.  They always says, "Gotta pump up to scrum"...

Personally, I don't think a pump shoe would hold up all that well.
If you're a tight five player, you get stepped on *a lot*.  The bladders
in those shoes would take a beating....

Now, maybe a pretty_boy back could use a pump.....

'Saw
8.279MCIS1::DHAMELI need some sensible shortsWed Apr 10 1991 16:008
    
    >If you're a tight five player, you get stepped on *a lot*.  The bladders
    >in those shoes would take a beating....
    
    The bladders take enough beating at the drink up.
    
    Dickstah
    
8.280Every worn rugby shorts?LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Apr 10 1991 16:546
    re -.1
    
    Even worse when you can't get you're shorts undone because you're a
    little drunk and they're perverse anyways.
    
    Rachael
8.282CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Wed Apr 10 1991 17:5021
Ah, Rachael, Rachael, Rachael...

Now I know you wear English style....


Hawk, there are two styles of rugby shorts -- English and New Zealand.
English are like a pair of pants, with a button fly (usually one button)
a button at the top of the fly, and one button to the right, to hold the
little belt like waistband portion.  They have a draw string too.

New Zealand style are like a pair of gym shorts w/ drawstring.  They're
cut a little fuller for props and hookers who need a little more leg
room (hooker because he's hooking', props because of their stance)....

I never have a problem at a drinkup, because I wear New Zealand style
shorts.  Also, a lot of times I'll change into a pair of baggy workout
pants, just for comfort after a game.....


hth,
'saw
8.283longest sentence todayLEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Apr 10 1991 19:0819
    Saw,
    	
    You're quite right, I wear English style.  Your description is quite
    good, one button in the fly and one on the little belt-like thing,  but
    you forgot to mention that, in an effort not to poke people's eyes out
    with buttons, the button holes only go through the inside layer of
    fabric on each area, so you have to push it into the button hole or get
    it our without being able to oppose it.  That's what makes them so
    difficult to handle in drink-up type situations.     Figure it's about
    the same as the placket on your jersey, if the placket were sewn shut
    along the edge.
    
    When buying rugby shorts, especially a certain US brand, keep in mind
    that every pair you buy will be a different size, regardless if it has
    the same number on the tag.  My shorts vary from just barely big enough
    to play in to balloon-like, and they're all the same waist.
    
    
    Rachael
8.284Mac on ShortsCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 10 1991 19:0811
8.285LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Apr 10 1991 19:091
    And don't forget, all rugby shorts have pockets.
8.286PS Back is starting to feel better...CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Wed Apr 10 1991 19:5221
Mac,

You're right, I cannot tell a lie.  Props have PropButt, which necessitates
a fuller cut.  (Or at least *this* prop does)

I get Gymphlex, and I find that they're always smaller than advertised.
Right now I'm wearing a size 42, even though I'd absolutely swim in
size 42 jeans....

I've got some English, some NZ....


Rachael, you're right about the buttons.  Pain in the ass, unless you're
at a drinkup, in which case it's a pain in the bladder....  And anyway,
those buttons last about two gams, and then you're either taping your
pants, or trying to tuck that flap in under the drawstring!


8^)

'Saw
8.287LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Apr 11 1991 10:546
    Being a wily old veteran of the sport, I sew my buttons on securely
    first thing when I get my shorts.  I don't like wearing the New Zealand
    style short.  They feel too constrictive to me.  I've always thought
    they had less leg-room, too, but maybe I've just worn smaller pairs.
    
    Rachael
8.288CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Thu Apr 11 1991 11:5924
>    Being a wily old veteran of the sport, I sew my buttons on securely
>    first thing when I get my shorts.  I don't like wearing the New Zealand
>    style short.  They feel too constrictive to me.  I've always thought
>    they had less leg-room, too, but maybe I've just worn smaller pairs.


Gee, never thought of that.  

I've used a pair of Land's End english style (bought them back when they
sold REAL rugby shorts) for practice for two season, and finally the
other night lost the button for the little flap.  (It was a new lock
behind me, so that explains his inexperienced binding 8^))


Bought a great little book from Godek's!  It's called Why the Whistle Blew,
and is a bunch of common language, EASY to understand explanations of the
rules, based on game situations.  It states the scrum rules in an easy
to understand manner, and deals with touch and lineout well too.
That's as far as I've gotten.

It's ONLY $3.00, and can be ordered direct from Godek.  It'd be great for
rugby neophytes who even only wanna watch the game....(ie Kwak)....

'Saw
8.289LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 12 1991 11:1219
    Well, we had some college women out to fill out our practice, give them
    some coaching, and to recruit.  They were from Harvard.  As they were
    short on props, and I am about 4th flanker out of a trillion, I was
    asked to stand in at prop, for Harvard.  Nothing quite like going
    against a full club side scrum with a college side scrum, with a second
    row behind me that had only done it twice before.  My opposing prop
    had at least 30-40 lbs on me, which is about a quarter of what I weigh. 
    And they had real second rows and flankers.  We had no flankers.  It
    was a treat the likes of which I hope never to experience again.  I
    think the seconds behind me were shifting their feet, because nearly
    every scrum I ended up pushed out sideways in a little pretzal shape. 
    Although I'm a little small to prop, (just a little), I've never had
    that problem before so I don't really think it was all my fault.  I was
    very frustrated with the whole thing.  Also, my arm was getting very
    tired from binding over and over again, as I am not used to it.  Sigh.
    But, fortunately, I am not sore from it.  Just exasperated. I hope I
    get many brownie points in that great pitch in the sky for this.
    
    Rachael
8.290US win first WWCEUSEBE::STURTMon Apr 15 1991 07:5518

	Cheering news from Cardiff. The US womens rugby team won the
	first ever World Cup, beating England in the final 19-6.

	Semi-finals:

	England 13    France 0
	US       7    NZ     0



	Final:

	England  6    US    19


	Ed.
8.291CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 16 1991 11:578
>	Final:
>
>	England  6    US    19


Yee-HAH!

May our men do as well against Scotland in May!!!!!
8.292CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 16 1991 12:0135
>    My opposing prop
>    had at least 30-40 lbs on me, which is about a quarter of what I weigh. 


Oh, how I know this feeling.  His name is Joe Norton, and as the song
goes, "he was a giant of a man...."


>    And they had real second rows and flankers.  We had no flankers.  It
>    was a treat the likes of which I hope never to experience again.  I
>    think the seconds behind me were shifting their feet, because nearly
>    every scrum I ended up pushed out sideways in a little pretzal shape. 


Yup.  I know that feeling too.  Rachael, don't you love it when just
an instant before your back starts popping into a new shape, you can
feel the lock's head up high near your kidneys?

One night i had a new lock behind me...he's a better flanker than lock
actually, and it was his first practice with us.  So he's behind me
WEARING SNEAKERS, and he wasn't binding properly.....YUK!


>    Also, my arm was getting very
>    tired from binding over and over again, as I am not used to it.  

Yeah, sometimes my arm is as sore as my back after practice.  You don't
realize (especially at tighthead) what an effort it can be to get that
arm up and over every scrum.....

When you're feeling like that, don't you HATE it when the lineout throw
isn't straight, and the ref gives them the choice and you hear them
say "Scrum, sir".....

'Saw
8.293USA!LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 16 1991 14:1663
        	It was a really emotional weekend, rugby-wise.  First, we hear the
    US has defeated NZ to go to the finals.  So, those of us left at home
    fly or drive to DC to play in a Tourney.

    	In the middle of our first game, Washington (having noticed a bunch
    of signatures on our waiver form) tells us we must drop our roster to
    21 players.  The first we had heard of the limit was that morning at
    the captains' meeting.  So, we played almost everyone else in the
    second match, to bring our total to 24 played.  Washington not only
    disqualified us, but they gave the teams we beat a loss instead of a
    6-0 score which is what's usually done for forfeit.

    	I put someone in the hospital, inadvertently.  Someone hit me from
    behind and threw my head into someone else's, who had to get a bunch of
    stitches in her forehead.  I made some noise for a bit when I was hit
    (I couldn't breath) but only had the breath knocked out of me and a
    bump on my forehead, so I was able to continue playing.  Right now the
    swelling is seeping down my face and I look like a sleepy raccoon, but
    only from close up.

    	That night we all went to dinner in bits and pieces, but the whole
    team ended up in one hotel room later.  The party was in a town which
    was not too far from the pitch, but about 40-45 minutes from our hotel,
    so we didn't go.  Our hotel was near the Mall, which is where we were
    supposed to play but the fields reserved for the women's tourney were
    bumped when the Cherry Blossom tourney needed a few more. (We used to
    play in the Cherry Blossom, but a few years ago they decided to
    eliminate the women's bracket.)  We ended up playing on a mountainside
    in northeast DC.  (A lovely neighborhood, Anacostia)

    	Anyways, we were dispirited at being disqualified?  No, we sang in
    our hotel room until security came to throw us out.  The team was so
    incredibly tight, the power was almost tangible.

    	The next day, we were graciously allowed to play a consolation
    final match against SouthEast, which is a good team from Georgia.  As
    with all our games, it was on the slopiest / field.  They scored early
    as an offsides player intercepted one of our passes and ran in a try. 
    It was quite spectacular, but she was way offsides.  The ref was
    pathetic.  We scored a try in the second half on a quick penalty taken
    from about 4 meters out, our scrumhalf dove in.  And then the clock ran
    down, further and further.  At about 1.5 minutes into two minutes of
    injury time, we executed beautiful, forwards got clean ball to the
    backs, who passed it out to wing with the fullback in for a try.  We
    attempted the extra point (missed) and the final whistle blew.

	We made up a song:

    Beantown rugby came to town, just to win a tourney
    They changed the rule and that was cruel and ruined our journey
    Beantown rugby 25, 25 together
    Beantown rugby 25, 25 forever!

    The synergy we had that weekend was the best I've ever felt.  And after
    the game, someone called the hotel in Wales so we found out the US had
    won the world cup, with three Beantown players on the field and another
    three there.

    Last night the World Cup players came home.  We have a lot of skills to
    work on before Nationals, but the spirit is there and I think we will
    present a stronger side then we have in a few years.

    Rachael
8.294CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 16 1991 15:2222
Wow, what a weekend!

Unfortunately, I missed the trip to Washington, being sick.  The Wanderers
were in the Cherry Blossom, although I'm sure they didn't win it.

Our rugby play lately has been somewhat schizophrenic, and we never know
which team will be on the field. ;^)


Here's our rugby song, which is a classic that you probably know.
It's the way we sang it at the Waterloo drinkup.....


	We don't play for admiration, we don't play for victory.
	We just play for recreation, fifteen Hartford ruggers we.
	Balls to Waterloo, balls to Waterloo, we won't play you anymore.
	Balls to Waterloo, balls to Waterloo, we won't play you anymore.


Best of luck in the Nationals.  Super Congrats on the World Cup win!!!!

'Saw
8.295CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 16 1991 17:5312
Hey Rachael.....

From what Mac said, you ain't prop material.....  ;^)


heh, heh, heh.....

'Saw


PS  Was gonna take some black tape to the game yesterday and tape up
    Hawk's ears, but I figured I'd save that honor for you 8^)
8.296hah hah hah hahCAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Tue Apr 16 1991 18:0611
Well, based on something that Mac told me about a Dallas based Sevens 
tournaments for guys all over 200 pounds, and based on another rugger
friend telling me of a Sevens team composed solely of props (more as a
joke, since they NEVER touched the ball in 15 minutes of play), 
I'm forming a new team....

It'll be called the Hebron All-Props, and we'll wear black shirts, with
a gold ragin bull crest.  If you know of any props that are interested,
let me know ;^)

'Saw
8.297LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue Apr 16 1991 19:3220
    That rugby song is one of my favorites, it's called Bread of Heaven ( I
    think the first two verses are a psalm and the last is made up).
           
    We sing:
    We don't play for admiration, we don't play for victory
    We just play for recreation, 15 * senoritas are we...
    + to (opposing team), + to (opposing team)
    We will play you evermore
    We will play you evermore.
    
    * gay or fit, depending on who's singing.
    + I forget, but it's not balls... something like "Here's" or "Cheers"
    
    No, I'm not hardly a prop but I was told I look very butch today with
    two black eyes.  They're not too bad, though, mostly just a nice
    war-paint streak under each eye.  I think they're peaking today but
    my buddy thinks tomorrow will be the top day.  Just as well I'm not
    coaching WPI this week, eh Mac?  
    
    Rachael
8.298Summer seven'sLEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Apr 17 1991 11:5615
    Boston Women's holds a seven's tourney every year down on the Cape in
    July.  There are a number of interesting teams.  There is an all prop
    team, their T-shirts all have a one or a three on them and say "if we
    catch you we'll kill you".  I think last year there was an all second
    row team. Two years ago there was a pink dress team, they all played in
    long flowing pink dresses.  It was a riot when they were tackled, their
    skirts puffed up over them.  And there's the Mary team, which won the
    last time I was there, they're all named Mary (mostly Beantown, we
    have a lot of Mary's on the team).
    
    There was also (two years ago, I didn't go last year) a match set up
    between the a team of under 5'2"'s and the prop team.  The under 5'2"'s
    ran circles around the props.
    
    Rachael
8.299CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Wed Apr 17 1991 12:0417
re the song:

	Well, I know we sang "balls to Waterloo"...maybe because we lost 8^)


re 7s:

	Gotta love that all-prop team...if we catch you we'll kill you.
        too funny.....


actually, I've never played 7s.  Like I've been saying, I'm so slow that
you could time me with a sundial.  I mean, I probably could give Rich
Gedman a race though.....8^)


'Saw
8.300LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Apr 17 1991 12:227
    The guys always sing "balls to so-and-so".  Not having balls (they're
    not talking about rugby balls) we will generally find another word. 
    Sometimes the college teams will sing it and other songs as is, being
    younger, more naive, more closely tied in general with their men's
    teams, and just so happy to drink.
    
    Rachael
8.301CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Wed Apr 17 1991 12:3213

	"Balls," said the Queen, "if I had two I'd be king"   


Oh, I see.  We've had a couple of cool drinkups this season, from the
one in Nassau where Waterloo pulled out the homemade conga drum (manned
by a tall lock) and sang some islands songs, to the recent one in
Stamford, where Pulborough ("Pul-bra") RFC gave us a taste of a true
English drinkup, complete with "It's a Long Way To Tipperary".....


'Saw
8.302COMET::JOHNSTONStand Back! I'll handle this!Wed Apr 17 1991 13:099
   QUICK!

   Somebody grab Kwak before he reads this stuff and tape his ears, or
   we'll be knee deep in laquer.

   Mike JN

   PS the part about tackling the ones in the pink dresses sounds like the
   Pig Roast I went to last 4th of July. Most riotously excellent, dewd!
8.303LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 19 1991 11:1023
    	I found out last night, there's no B-side game this weekend.  Kind
    of a bummer but kind of OK, I still have a bruise on my head from last
    weekend and it wasn't that comfortable in practice last night.
    	I'm going to try practicing with the backs next week.  We have so
    many flankers that it's hard to get practice time, given that much of
    forward's practice is spent on general forward skills or tight five
    stuff.  Most times I spend more time being an opposition prop then I do
    playing flanker.  If I go work with the backs, I'll learn things about how
    the backs play, which will make me a better flanker then propping will. 
    Plus it will make me more of a utility player, which I think is a good
    thing for someone not guaranteed an A-side spot anytime in the
    immediate future.
    	I talked to two of our coaches last night, and they thought it was
    a good idea.  My girlfriend thinks I'm just sidelining myself, and if I
    want to be a flanker I should just be more assertive and insist on more
    practice time, etc.  I think that's true sometimes, but I think this
    season the team already has their minds made up about who's ranked where,
    and I'm pretty clearly fourth of six.  Besides, if I play back I'll
    have more time to fix my hair and adjust my uniform on the field during
    games.


    Rachael                           
8.304CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Fri Apr 19 1991 12:1826
I don't know, Rachael, working with the backs????? ;^)

I've got an interesting game tomorrow.  I did manage to get selected after
missing the tournament last week due to illness.  Thought I wouldn't, but
I did.

Anyway, because New York Irish are bringing only two sides, the third side
is gonna play the Hartford Old Boys.  Should be interesting, as they have
a big pack, and while most are over 35, they are the best Old Boys team
around here.  Should be a tough, fun game....

You oughta come work out with us.  Our forwards do interminable rucking
drills.  Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck!  Last nigth we set up a rucking
drill with a man (ie opponent) on the wrong side of the ball.  The idea
was to pick him up over to his own side on the way in.  Actually, it
kind of fun.  Then, we included "roto-tilling" as an option, so when
we were skittles, we were taking turns being the opponent on the wrong
side.  

It was kind of like The Deer Hunter, because you never knew if you were
gonna get picked (easy) or roto-tilled (ouch!)....


All in all not a bad practice....

'Saw
8.305That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger...CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Mon Apr 22 1991 12:2295
Saturday's Game Report.....

Saturday was a very interesting day for the Wanderers.  Our A and B side
opponent was the New York Irish Rugby Club, and C Side was scheduled to 
play the Hartford Old Boys (HoBos).

At 1pm, the Irish had exactly 4 players ready to play, no other in sight.
By 1:20 pm, they had 14 players so the ref started the game, and within
30 seconds, their 15th man showed up.  Needless to say our coach was livid.

Personally, I don't see how it can be so hard to get from New York to Ct
with 15 guys for a 1pm game on a Saturday.  Neither did any of the rest of
our team.

The game was well played by the Wanderers, who scored early on a penalty.
By half time, we were up 15-0, and just waiting for the pugilistic action
to start.  The Irish have a reputation for fisticuffs, and have been booted
from the Met Union several times for their behavior on the pitch.  Several
factors prevented an all out riot on Saturday.  First, the excellent handling
of the game by the referee.  He was in total control and let nothing
get out of hand.  Second, the tight discipline on the Wanderers prevented a lot
of stuff.

Probably the funniest thing to happen was late in the second half, when
Ed Brewer, one of our props broke up a fight about to start.  The Irish prop,
utterly frustrated (and losing big at this point) blurted out in a thick
brogue "You got a big nose and flat ears".   I think he was trying to tell
Ed that he wanted to flatten his nose like his ears, but it didn't come out
that way.

When the ref whistled no-side, Hartford had 28 points, New York Irish 0.

Because the Irish didn't bring a full B side, most of their A side played
again, and lost big to our B's.


Then, the C side took the field against the HoBos.

All I can say about this game is that old rugby adage:

	That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.....

The game was owned by the Old Boys.  Composed of former Hartford Wanderers,
the HoBos have over 300 years of rugby experience.  As C side learned
Saturday, experience counts a GREAT deal in rugby.

Their pack is huge and fast.  We played three 20 minute periods instead of
two 30 minute halves, and during the first period I played tighthead prop.
My feet didn't stay on the ground much at all during our scrums.  Their
loosehead at me alive, taking time to season to taste and wash me down with
a beer.  It was UGLY.

In addition, they were consistently getting five or six guys to rucks and mauls
to our three.  Did I mention that they were fast?  8^)

In the second period, I moved to lock, and Ralph, the lock I replaced (who's
had more experience at prop than I) moved to prop.  I felt more comfortable
at lock (having more experience there) but I didn't feel so bad about being
moved, because in spite of the replacement, our front row was still being
lifted by the excellent play of the HoBos front row.  We won very few scrums
all day.....

Our play did pick up in the second period, and in talking with the HoBos
after the game (we're all good friends) they told us that we had them worried
at that point.  Rugby is a game where the tide can turn very quickly, so 
they had to try and put down our comeback.  They did.

The final score was 20-something to nothing.  If we'd have played a full
eighty minutes I'm sure we could have put some points on the board.

I have never played such a tough rugby game.  I was utterly exhausted as I
came off the field, and body parts are still sore today.  There is some comfort
in knowing that the HoBos are hurting too.

You learn a lot about yourself and your team in a loss like this, especially
against an far superior opponent.  I learned a lot about Wanderers pride,
and Wanderers discipline, and I learned that no matter what, we don't quit.
THAT was what we took off the field with us on Saturday.

In addition, we closed a loop.  The C side is the entry into the world
of Wanderers rugby, the HoBos the logical culmination.  This game, which will
be an annual event, is superb for teaching things like what I learned, and
in passing on experience.

I know one thing.  I won't play another game this year against a front row
as tough as the one on Saturday.  I didn't find out until after the game, but
their front row (only several years retired from the Wanderers) is one of the
best the Wanderers ever had....

All in all it was a tough, hard nosed day.  I have a LONG way to go to be
a complete rugby player, but days like Saturday will get me there much
quicker than easy wins over teams like Danbury and New York RFC.....

'Saw
8.306OZARDZ::WASKOMMon Apr 22 1991 16:1625
    Much to 'Saw's surprise, I was there Saturday to witness the carnage.
    
    Wanderers play simply beautiful rugby.  New York Irish didn't.  The
    A-side ref was truly excellent, which is an artform.  He allowed play
    to flow nicely, only whistled up those calls which were real advantage
    situations, yet kept the whole thing clean.  I knew the Irish were in
    for a long afternoon when the Wanderer's pack pushed the whole scrum
    back 30 feet before the ball was put in, apparently without effort. 
    The fact that they had to play two games, back-to-back, probably was
    what kept the fight count down.  The Irish were clearly frustrated, and
    it was undoubtedly a long drive home.
    
    C-side v. Hobos was interesting.  Very frustrating to watch, as I
    wanted "my side" to do well, and they were simply massively outplayed. 
    I wasn't surprised to learn that the Hobos regularly win their
    division.  The fact that they've played together for long and long, and
    at a very high level, is very apparent.
    
    All in all, a very enjoyable day -- in spite of a flat tire which
    caused me to leave the drink-up a little earlier than I would have
    liked :-(.
    
    Looking forward to next week.
    
    A&W
8.307LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 22 1991 16:4532
	Just curious, how did the pack manage to push the Irish 30 feet before
the ball was put in without getting whistled for barging?

	Sounds like a bad start but good ending.  The team we were supposed to 
play this weekend is so bad at getting a traveling side together that our match
was cancelled.  Since the B-side match had already been cancelled, we just
practiced and had our own casual drinkup.  
	I think the idea of closing the loop with the C-side versus the old boys
is really neat.  The game has to be controlled and not just a massacre, and it
sounds like it was.  
	I went and ran with the backs on Saturday, and scrimmaged a bit as an
outside center.  The difference was even more immense then I had predicted.  I
think this exposure will be very important in my career as a flanker.  The 
timing for the back line is very different.  Much of the time, the ball is
so far away and tiny looking.  I dropped a lot of balls during drills that I
could have caught, mostly nervousness.  But I did some things well.  It's hard 
to pick up with a back line that has four players (out of ten present) that are
on the depth chart for the National side.  
	During the scrimmage, the hardest part was holding my place in the 
line, especially on defense.  I am so used to running over to sloppy play
as fast as I can, it was hard to just let it play out.
	The part I liked the best about it was the movement during practice.
Usually, once the forwards and the backs split up, the forwards don't run
much until we come back together.  With the backs, we weren't streaking up
and down the field, but we were moving most of the time.
	I learned this weekend that we have a limited roster for Nationals,
only 28.  We have over 30 active players.  I may be taking myself out of the
running by dropping into the back line, but if I'm #4 flanker I don't stand
much of a chance at playing even if I was on the roster.
	

Rachael
8.308CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Mon Apr 22 1991 16:5529
>	I think the idea of closing the loop with the C-side versus the old boys
>is really neat.  The game has to be controlled and not just a massacre, and it
>sounds like it was.  

Yeah, it was.

It felt weird to play them, because they're like "us", ya know.  But once the
game started it was rugby all the way.

I could not get over the speed and power of their pack.  Without a doubt they
proved to me that technique is the key to playing prop.  Our pack won maybe
three scrums all day.  It was that bad.

When I was playing second row, it was possible to lock out, but even with
that our front row got lifted bad.

And in the loose, about the only way I can describe it would be for me to
tell you to go out on Main St and try to ruck over a moving car....

But, as I've said, it was a schooling.  I'm very proud that, despite their
utter dominance of the game, we kept reaching down deep and trying to find
more and more effort.  It may sound like a weak excuse, but the Hobos themselves
agreed, that it we'd played even 10 minutes more we'd have at least put
some points on the board....

The HoBos have not lost a game since a year ago.  It shows.....


'Saw
8.309OZARDZ::WASKOMMon Apr 22 1991 19:3211
    Rachel -
    
    The answer to your question is part of what made the ref so good.  He
    stood up the packs, spoke to all present about the law (quietly but
    firmly), backed it all up to the appropriate point, and ran the play
    again.  I have *no doubt* that if there had been *any* movement prior
    to the ball coming in after that point that he would have awarded the
    barge.  It simply didn't happen, because he had been so clear about
    what he would and would not accept.
    
    A&W
8.310CAM::WAYOnly thing better 'n rucking is...Mon Apr 22 1991 19:5014
I think the ref's name is Peter something-or-other.  He's an excellent
ref.

A lot of rugby is sometimes seeing what you can get away with.  I learned
early on, for example, to look for where the ref stands while watching the
lineout.  If he's in front, I can't do certain things.  Or I can until he
tells me to stop.  If he's in the rear, I have a wide latitude...

Anyway, he called a really good game....

Our pack ate theirs anyway (yahoo!)


'Saw
8.311CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Wed Apr 24 1991 11:5637
Tough practice last night.

Started with a timed two-miler.  I hate those things, but I did manage to
shave 2 minutes off my time from the last one.

After that did some fancy ball handling drills.  I got smart, as I finally
managed to get in a line that was mostly forwards.  When you're the only
forward in a line with all backs, you need a lot more wheels...


Heavy duty scrumming last night.  We tore up a lot of ground.  BUT I did
see exactly where we went wrong on Saturday.  From a pack point of view,
we were VERY ragged in getting to the mark.  I remember drills last fall
on the scrum sled, where we'd have to scrum, the ball would come out,  we'd
set a maul, and then have to hustle back to the sled for the next mark.
On Saturday we were not doing that....

On a personal point, I just plain wasn't leaning back onto my lock and
flanker, and as a result couldn't go in low.  Plus, the HoBos were coming
in so quick, I had no chance to get my legs back and be somewhat extended.

Last night was good.  We started a scrum from the ground up, or I should say
from the hooker out.  Every part of the scrum was scrutinized, from the 
loosehead's first bind on the hooker, to the 8man getting his head into
position between the locks hips.  This really helped, and improved our
quality I think....

Probably the neatest part was doing some pushover try practice.  We'd
set up five meters from the line, and practice pushing over (offense) and
locking out (defense)....

Ended up with some fitness -- about fifteen minutes of wind sprints.


We're getting ready for WRFC, so Mac, you'd best be ready, dude 8^)

'Saw
8.312LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed Apr 24 1991 12:5029
When is the Worcester-Hartford game?  This Saturday, isn't it?  Good luck to
both of you.  How many sides does Worcester put out?

I can run with the backs for middle distance, like a mile or two, but have a 
hard time keeping up with their burst.  I was in a line on Saturday with 3 
wings, that was interesting.  Especially when I was the wing, running 
desperately up the sideline yelling "with you in about a minute".

I got new cleats, a pair of Nike molded ones, with a kind of rubbery bottom.
They feel really weird, I wore them when I coached WPI on Monday.  It feels
like running around in slippers.  I'll see what they're like tomorrow night, 
when I'm really running.  The Puma outlet in Marlboro is actually not in 
Marlboro, I just wasn't thinking of where it really is.  It's now called the
Soccer Center and is in Framingham, off Rt. 30 just South or West of Southboro.
You have to turn off Rt. 30 by the Gun shop, go all the way down, go left,
and go right then look for a sign.  It's behind a Poland Springs warehouse.
The selection was pretty decent, and the prices were good.  Then again, all
the molded cleats seem cheap to me, as I've always bought (more expensive)
replacable ones.  They have bins of cleats for $20, some of which were pretty
nice.  And they have clothes, too.  Lots of brands on the cleats, but soccer
only, no high tops.

Two minutes sure is a lot of time to take off a two miler.  If I could take
that much off, maybe I could race the two mile!  Then again, maybe not, I just
remembered how long it takes me to run two miles.

I'm already psyched for practice tomorrow.

Rachael
8.313CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Wed Apr 24 1991 13:2137
8.314CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 24 1991 18:4311
8.315CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Wed Apr 24 1991 19:0924
Oh boy, that's tough!

No matter how much I might NOT WANNA scrum against the opponents (and I
came very close to that feeling last Saturday) I'll always get in there
and give it my best.


Had a very interesting conversation with one of the HoBos about The Front
Row last Saturday.  It's his contention that the kernel of the entire
team is the front row.  He was telling me that front rows on the great
teams will tell you that they never lost a game in such and such a
season, despite their record being, say, 14-3.  

I know one thing.  To be a good front row player you have to WANT to play
there.  You have to relish that head to head contact, and you have to
want to be in the thick of it.  (For the record, I think the CRAZIEST guy
on the team is the hooker -- what little man likes to hang himself in
amidst all that burly beef....)

With all of that in mind, the days where you end up like a human pretzel
really test that desire to stay in there....


'Saw
8.316OZARDZ::WASKOMWed Apr 24 1991 20:035
    Hey Mac -
    
    How about a trip report, pretty please?
    
    A&W
8.317LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Apr 25 1991 11:0627
    Well, I'm pretty bummed.  This weekend could conceivably be just about
    the end of the season for me.   The two weekends after that we have
    single games scheduled (Hartford, then Concord), then it's Regionals
    then Nationals.  We could conceivably put out a B-side against either
    Hartford or Concord, but I doubt we will since Nationals is in 5 weeks
    and the upper crust has to keep their edge.  I guess we're considering
    entering a B-side in Regionals.  That would be awesome.  I think we'd
    be allowed 5 player overlap on the roster.  
    
    The only good part of all the is the reaffirmation I have in my
    decision to practice with the backs for a while, since even if I had
    stayed at flanker, I probably wouldn't have gotten many games.  And in
    the Fall, I'll have my choice as to whether I should go back to
    flanker, or stay in the back line.  I'd have to (gasp) run seriously if
    I really want to try to be a back.  I ran quarters with a guy from this
    site yesterday, at a blistering pace (78. 84. 89. 89. 89. 79).  I'd
    have to do that sort of sh*t regularly...
    
    It's hard to get psyched for tonight's practice and this weekend's game
    (most likely only one for me) when I know it all amounts to squat in
    the grand scheme of things.  There are definitely good and bad points
    to playing on a good team.  I will admit,though, having played some of
    the best and some of the worst rugby in the US, that I'd rather gut it
    out on a good team, it's more fulfilling in a net sense, even if there
    are days like today.
    
    Rachael            
8.318CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Thu Apr 25 1991 11:2322
Rachael, Rachael, say it ain't so!

You can't possibly be thinking of being a back.  I mean, *everyone*, even
that Perrier sipping, Docker wearing, quiche eating JoJ knows that backs
are inferior to forwards....

I mean, I will admit, that when I see and inside center booking up the
field, making cuts and then putting a monster hit on someone to start a
ruck, I will grudgingly respect that 8^), but even still....

Seriously, though, we have a couple of guys on the squad who are flankers
who regulary make the switch between center and flanker.  I suppose that'd
be the place to put a flanker, since they aren't  afraid of a little 
contact......


As to the Hartford game, I'm pretty sure it won't be in Colt Park, since
the city would not give us a permit that weekend for a game, since there is
a carnival in town in the Park.  Let me know where your game is gonna be
at......

'Saw
8.319CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Thu Apr 25 1991 12:1125
Couple of news items......

As I mentioned previously, Glenn Judge, our flyhalf/fullback is a new
entry into the Eagle selection pool.  He has not been selected for either
of the tests against Japan, but he is still in the running for the Scotland
game.

He will however be playing against Scotland with the ERU Select side, of
which he's been a member for several years.

Also, our monster second row, Brian Shell, was asked last weekend to play
with the ERU Select side against Scotland.  Needless to say he is one
psyched up dude...


And with Tom Vinnick practicing and playing A Side again, I have to wonder,
despite his age (34), just how long it will be before they again place him
in the selection pool.  He still has all the moves and the vicious sticks,
he has just lost a step or two.....


Part of the fun of playing is in the rubbing of elbows with these "select"
players......

'Saw
8.320To be a little tiny back, or not to be a little tiny back?LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Apr 25 1991 13:0313
'Saw
	I don't think I'll ever become a back.  I am way too big, inside if 
not outside, to do that.  I am just slumming to pick up some skills and have 
more data to put on my rugby resume.  I will admit, though, after doing rucking,
mauling, and scrum drills for over six years, it's fun to go run back drills.
And I agree with you, center is the best place for me.  It's the best skill
match to a flanker.  Longterm, however, I intend to remain a flanker.  I'm not
even sure how much of this season I'll work with the backs, whether it'll be
a few times or the rest of the season. 
	Thanks for the warning on Colt Park.  I'll check with our team tonight
to see if they know.  

Rachael
8.3211991 Austin Rugby TournamentCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Apr 25 1991 13:58106
    Here's the trip report on the 22nd Annual Austin Rugby Tournament.
    
    When I showed up at the Thursday night training session before the
    tournament, it was like old home week.  I wasn't the only ex-Austin
    player to return for the tournament.
    
    The weather was a bit unusual for the tournament weekend.  It had been
    raining all week and the fields were soft and green (more or less).  It
    cleared up nicely for the weekend and temperatures barely broke 80. 
    Usually the temps are in the mid to high 90s and the fields are like
    parking lots.  There were 40 teams entered among 4 divisions (Div. I,
    Div. II, Collegiate, and Old Boys).  Austin's first side, the Blacks,
    were entered in Div. I, while the second side, the Golds, were in Div.
    II.  Each team played 2 games on Saturday.  Each game was played with
    20 minute halves.  I played in both of the Golds' matches at tighthead
    prop.
    
    The Golds first match was against Texas Div. II champs, Bay Area RFC
    (from Houston).  The game plan was to keep it in the forwards and wear
    Bay Area out.  It was working as Austin definitely had territorial
    advantage throughout the half, unfortunately we only had 3 points to
    show for it.  Bay Area tied it up at the end of the half on a
    questionable penalty kick (it was a questionable penalty to begin with,
    and everyone on the field except the Bay Area touch judge and the
    referee saw the kick go wide).  In the second half we decided to give
    our backs the ball and see if they could score.  They couldn't and Bay
    Area was able to mount a little more of an attack.  They capitalized
    twice on some mishandling deep in our own end with a penalty and an
    unconverted try.  Final was Bay Area 10, Austin Golds 3.
    
    The second Golds game matched us up against Houston Old Boys B side,
    the Div. I Texas B-side champs.  We absolutely dominated in the first
    half, and this time the scoreboard reflected it as we took a 12-0 at
    the half.  I had a field day against the opposing prop.  The only bad
    thing about it was that he was fairly new to the game and dumb as a
    post.  It took more than some not-so-subtle hints from me to get him to
    bind the way he was supposed to, stop trying to head butt me, and quit
    taking a nose dive as he tried to get into the scrums.  After drawing a
    penalty near the half, someone on his team apparently straightened him
    out some at halftime.  On to the second half.  Houston got on the board
    early when we fell asleep at the switch.  Their try shifted the
    momentum to them, and we found ourselves back on our heels on several
    occasions.  They came back and took the lead 16-12.  Austin mounted a
    furious attack for the last few minutes of the game, but Houston was
    able to keep us out of the try zone to preserve their victory, and
    eliminate the Golds from the tournament.
    
    The Austin Blacks started their play off with a match against Mystic
    River RFC (from Boston), the New England Div. I champs.  This game was
    ugly.  The referee had absolutely no control over the proceedings and
    both sides knew it.  Austin held a 4-0 lead until about halfway through
    the second half.  Mystic managed to go ahead 6-4 on two penalty kicks
    and then sealed the game with a late try to win 10-4.  The biggest
    fight of the game broke out right after the final whistle blew. 
    Fortunately it was broken up rather quickly without too much damage.
    
    The Blacks played Fort Worth RFC in their second match.  Austin looked
    sluggish in the first half and Fort Worth took advantage of it.  Austin
    finally took control in the second half and won by a convincing margin
    (I don't remember the score, I was getting ready for my game).  This
    put Austin in the semi-finals of the Div. I Plate competition on Sunday
    morning against Our Gang of Dallas.  
    
    I was invited to play at tighthead for the Blacks on Sunday.  The
    Blacks regular tighthead was a standoff in college and plays prop
    because the Blacks need props desparately, he's about the right size,
    and he won't play for the Blacks otherwise.  He was quite happy to take
    a break from the front row - in fact he volunteered to let me play on
    Saturday, but the captain told him that wouldn't be right since he had
    been playing there since I left last fall.  The match kicked off at
    9:30 am and we were missing some key players (either from injury the
    day before, or stupidity the night before).  I got my wakeup call in
    the first scrum as I didn't get set properly and wound up getting
    lifted.  The guy across from me was the best I'd played against since I
    left Austin.  I realized that I had better get my head in the game or
    he was going to eat me alive.  From there on in, the scrummages were
    pretty much a draw, with us winning all of our putins and Our Gang
    winning all of theirs.  I don't remember too many of the scoring
    details of the game (I rarely do when I'm playing in it), but Austin
    scored first and I'm pretty sure we held onto the lead into the half. 
    Our Gang went ahead in the second half.  It started looking bleak for
    Austin, but we hit a penalty kick late in the second half to bring us
    within a score, but Our Gang was able to hold on.  Austin played fairly
    well with a few guys out of position.  If we had hit a couple more of
    our penalty kicks we probably would have won the game -- although I
    wasn't that disappointed that I didn't have to play again that day.
    
    The Div. I final pitted two East Coast teams against each other --
    Mystic River RFC and Life Chiropractic College RFC (Marietta, GA). 
    Life was knocked off in the semi-finals by the Dallas Harlequins the
    year before, and in the finals by the same team the year before that. 
    They were very disappointed to hear that the Harlequins had taken the
    week off to prepare for the Western RFU Championships.  Mystic
    apparently played much better in their matches following the Austin
    game as they utterly destroyed Old Penarthians RFC (from England), and
    New Orleans RFC to get to the final.  
    
    Both teams agreed on a 40 minute halves for the final - despite already
    playing 20 minute halves in the semifinal earlier in the day.  The
    first half was hard fought and closely matched.  The referee exerted
    his control early by awarding penalties for barging in the lineouts and
    the scrum.  Mystic took a 6-3 lead into half time on 2 penalty kicks. 
    Kickers from both teams missed a few.  The second half was all Life,
    however.  After being denied 2 years in a row, Life camped out in
    Mystics end of the field and scored frequently.  I don't recall the
    final score, but Life won convincingly.
8.322Worcester @ Hartford 4/27CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Apr 25 1991 14:1112
    Yeah, Worcester is fielding 3 sides this season.  I hope we travel to
    Hartford better than we travelled to Schenectady, though.  Luckily we
    had only committed to 2 games in Schenectady.  One of the guys I played
    with in college lives in Albany and is pretty much retired from the
    game.  He ended up being pressed into service as a lock on our 2nd
    side.
    
    Thanks for the advance warning on Hartford, Saw.  I'll make sure I have
    my game face on for this one.  I'll find out tonight what position/side
    I'm playing.  I missed our game against Charles River last weekend
    because I was in Austin.  Now I'm real glad I got a chance to face some
    Div. I competition last week to help prepare me for Hartford.
8.323CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Thu Apr 25 1991 14:4813
I'm not surprised Life beat Mystic.  Life is a perennial in the ERU final
four, and lost to Washington this year.  That still makes them one of the
16 best rugby teams in the USA however....

As to this weekend, I'm not sure what we're fielding.  There a New England
or ERU game in Philly which some of our guys are playing in, so I'm not
sure what our A side will look like.


Great trip report Mac.  Glad you had fun down there and the weather wasn't
too awful....

'Saw
8.324OZARDZ::WASKOMThu Apr 25 1991 15:093
    Thanks for the report, Mac.  Sounds like it was a good weekend.
    
    A&W
8.325LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu Apr 25 1991 15:507
	Isn't Life Chiropractic college the only one in the US to offer rugby
scholarships?  (for men, only, I think)  Or was someone teasing me?
	I played on their fields once in Territorials, a year when I was on
Boston Women's and we got to go to fill a wildcard slot.  It was beautiful
down there, and I love hot weather.

Rachael
8.326CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Apr 25 1991 16:2028
8.327CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Thu Apr 25 1991 16:5925
Gary Lambert....wasn't he the one who created the stir because he was in the
ad for Moussy, and something about amateur standing?

Speaking of working with the backs, I got kind of an eye opener the other
night at practice.  We have a new prop, whose nickname is Tubsey.  Now,
why they call this guy Tubsey is beyond me, because I must outweigh him
by 30 pounds!  

Anyway, this guy is right out of college, and we start a drive and slip
drill, just doing some ball handling in tight, the way the forwards would
in traffic....

We finished, and he says to me "I just handled the ball more in this drill
than I did in four years of college practice".....

All I could say was Wow....


On the Wanderers, they don't encourage the forwards to try to run like
OJ Simpson (in fact they want us to go STRAIGHT up the field!) but they
do encourage us to handle the ball....

Mac, I like those beer prices 8^)

'Saw
8.328CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 12:0030
Well, we had selections last night, and wonder of wonders, I got selected
at lock.

I was pretty surprised, in view of the good practice I had on Tuesday night,
and spent most of practice wondering about it.  But, I didn't let it get
to me, and I played lock like I always did -- engine room in the scrum,
barging like hell in the lineouts...

After practice, I talked with Pete, our Vice Captain, more out of curiousity
than to gripe or anything.  He told me that they wanted to get that new
prop, Tubbsy, a game, and they knew he couldn't play lock, and I could.
Also, we've got another new lock (who's played before a few years ago), so
they wanted some stability there.

I'm not thrilled, but what the hell.....At least it wasn't due to my
poor performance on Saturday....8^)


Also saw the schedule for the New England tournament.  I'm not sure if
it's official yet, but the Wanderers take on New Haven at 0830 on Saturday
morning!  Phew.

Mac, I think Worcester steps off at 9:30, and I wanna say Harvard, but
I might be getting that mixed up with the Women's division, as i was trying
to look to see who Rachael would be playing also....


Looking forward to a good day on Saturday.....

'Saw
8.329Directions to Colt Park and/or Dillon StadiumCAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 12:1141
Before I forget to put them in, here are directions to Colt Park and/or
Dillon Stadium, for any who are interested in either the New England tournament
or the Scotland game....



	1. From I84 West, get onto I91 South.  (This is a left hand
	   exit, but well marked.

	2. Take Exit 27 (Airport Rd) off I91.

	3. At the light at the end of the exit ramp (fairly long ramp)
	   take a right.

	4. At the next light (about 100 yds), take a right onto 
           LOCUST ST.

	5. Stay on LOCUST ST, past the United Parcel Service warehouse,
	   until you come to a stop sign (about 3/4 mile I think).

	6. The stop sign is the intersection of LOCUST ST and WAWARME AVE.


	To go to Colt Park:

	7. Take a left onto WAWARME AVE, and your first right will be into
	   a parking lot, right by one of the rugby fields.

	To go to Dillon Stadium:

	7. At the intersection of LOCUST and WAWARME, go straight across.
	   The street becomes CURCOMB ST.  At the first stop sign, go
	   straight.

	8. At the second stop sign (about 50 yards) take a left. Dillon
	   Stadium is on your right, and the parking area is on your left.


If you have any questions, let me know.....

'Saw
8.330Okay, I admit it - I'm lost.RHETT::KNORRCarolina BlueFri Apr 26 1991 12:135
    Has anyone every posted a note in here that explains just what in the
    he** 1Way (tm) is talking about each and every day?
    
    
    - ACC Chris
8.331CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 12:2825
Chris, it's very simple.  You just have to know the game.

Take for instance basketball.  You love basketball, and you know what 
a post is, what a pick and roll is, the difference between a point guard
and a shooting guard.   

I don't know basketball, and I don't know the difference between a high post,
and a low post, or even parcel post.  A point guard is a short guy who dribbles
well, and a shooting guard, I guess, has a bad horse jones.

I know and love rugby, and have picked up the language of the game.  Like
basketball, each position has it's own name, and it's own role on the field.
We have three times as many guys as on the hoops court, but that's no problem.

Just like in basketball you have the tip-off, and the inbounds play, we do
too.  We just call it a kickoff and a line out.


The commonality between the two is that the people who play each love their
game, love to talk about their game, and would rather play their game than
do almost anything else in the world.....

*THAT'S* what I'm talking about 8^)

'Saw
8.332CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 12:3720
Translation for Chris:

>Well, we had selections last night, and wonder of wonders, I got selected
>at lock.

Rugby team lineups are chosen (according to the laws of the sanctioning body
or Union) by a group of selectors, in the week prior to the game.  HWRFC has
five selectors, and the Captain and Vice Captain.  After Tuesday's practice,
they meet and chose the lineups for Saturday's game.  These selections
are announced on Thursday during practice.

I was selected at lock, which is a forward position in the second row
of the scrum...

I was a little disappointed because I prefer to play prop, which is a
position in the front row....


hth,
'Saw
8.333LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 26 1991 14:0542
	Now, after all this fuss and bother...
	We had three coaches at practice last night, usually two of them do
Tuesdays and the other does Thursdays.  They are all superb.  Kevin coaches the
National side, Carrie was the National side flanker and is a teacher/admin by
profession, and Susie used to coach Florida State, one of our prime rivals and
a great team.
	So, I'm moseying off with the backs last night but Carrie was working
with just the loose forwards so she called me over.  We worked together 
intensely on close loose play.  Offensive fending, and different defensive 
tackling  strategies.  Such as, sometimes it's better to stand the opposition up within
your own 22, to slow the play down and allow your support to get there, rather
then putting them on the ground and making the ball available for their support.
	Then we ran a bunch of semi-opposed waves, and I got to run one with
Carrie, which was really sharp.  I love running out the back line with a flanker
I really feel partnership with, it makes me feel like a pair of wolves cutting 
sheep.
	We also talked about where to focus our run offensively in support
of the backs, and informed the backs where we'd be. 
	For you props out there, the ole' blond rugby player said the tight
five practice was really good.  Kevin was showing the second rows  how to lock 
out quicker and better then before, and the hookers were working their strike  
stategies  for timing and proper channeling.  Her right ear was really sore 
from the aggresive striking (motion) of the hookers, but apparently it was 
worth it.  
	I'll be in charge of gathering ticket money for our team.  If I get over
20, when do I have to get you the money 'Saw, in order to get $10 tickets?  I
know it's May 9th if  I'm getting less then  that.
	Who's going to do the announcing for that match?  If they mentioned the
women's world cup success and the fact that several of the players will be in
the audience (possibly a bit late, I don't trust their tight timing), perhaps
it would add to psyche and help mend the rift between the teams caused by
Ed what's his face (is it Ed, the captain?)'s remarks at the Can-Am tourney
several years ago.  
	I wore my new cleats last night and they were really nice.  It makes
a world of difference how you're feet feel at the end of a night of heavy
sprinting when you wear molded cleats.  
	'Saw, it could be worse about second row.  This is Cyndy's second season
with Beantown, she's been asked to play second row almost the entire time, and
she was a Midwest select-side flanker before she moved here.  At least you're 
supposed to be in the tight five.

Rachael
8.334Contact "Miller Lite", 'Saw, you're a natural ...SHALOT::HUNTIf Do Then Damned Else DamnedFri Apr 26 1991 14:1514
8.335CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 14:2534
Re the money and over 20:

	If you've got over 20, then send the order directly to the Wanderers.
	I think the date would also be May 9, but let me check on it....

re second row:

	Yeah, I'm not really bummed, because I get to jump in the lineout
	which is a nice change of pace.  And the other second row I'm playing
	with is really into it, and we've already decided that we're gonna
	get to the mark and be ready to go in before the hooker even calls
	for us.   This guy is pretty tall (maybe 6'3" or 6'4"), so it should
	be really good....

	And hey, we're the engine room.  If the props give us a good platform,
	we're gonna push 'em into Windsor (next town over 8^))


Kevin Sarr was back last night from New Mexico.  He was our A side loosehead
last season, and it was good to see him.  I had a chance to talk with him
about the fiasco against the HoBos, and I told him how we were really ragged
getting to the mark, and how I'd be just getting my arm out to "touch, pause,
engage" and my lock would be calling "give me your shorts, give my your shorts".
Kev laughed, and told me that the next time a second row does that, that I'm
just supposed to squeeze his head like a pimple, and he'll learn really quick
to reach up there and grab waistband, shirt, anything except my cojones....8^)


btw, was reading the laws of the game and it says that for youth or schoolboy
rugby, the between the legs bind on the prop is not allowed, and you must
bind around his hips instead.  Any thoughts on why this is so?


'Saw
8.336LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 26 1991 14:2610
	The wording all makes perfect sense to me.  I don't know what
you guys are going on about.

	So, now that you've been reading this note for a while, I guess you've
realized that rugby really is a bunch of burly idiots in striped shirts
who got totally shit-faced after they finished beating the crap outta
each other.  Except not all the teams were striped jerseys, and you forgot to
emphasize how much we enjoy beating the crap outta each other.

Rachael
8.337LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 26 1991 14:317
	I think the stuff on the binds is to keep the scrum higher and therefore
(supposedly) safer.   Less collapsing or something like that.
	It was adapted for a year into the club laws, then  scrapped, along with 
a bunch of other really silly, annoying laws we tried that year. Mac, am I 
remembering correctly on the rational?  

Rachael
8.338CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 14:3447
8.339MCIS1::DHAMELI need some sensible shortsFri Apr 26 1991 14:5211
    
    "So I sez to my mate at the drink-up after the HFFC-ASPCA match on the
    pitch, 'Ya know, if we scrummed the ruck on the prop at the side-out,
    we coulda kicked off the flank forward, the tight one, not the loose
    one mind you, and mauled the front that binds and had ourselves a
    touch by the back."
    
    How my doin' so far?
    
    Dickstah
    
8.340Sounds good to me. RHETT::KNORRCarolina BlueFri Apr 26 1991 14:564
    Makes as much sense as anything else I read in here, Dickstah!
    
    
    - ACC Chris
8.341There is rugby in CharlotteCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 26 1991 14:5817
8.342AXIS::ROBICHAUDFri Apr 26 1991 15:032
    	I thought rugby was invented so Frank Way could have something
    to do while waiting for Miss Applegate to discover him...
8.343CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 26 1991 15:0319
8.344Not bad, Dickstah, now finish the jobSHALOT::HUNTIf Do Then Damned Else DamnedFri Apr 26 1991 15:1020
 Keep goin', Dickstah, you're on a roll.  Now, you have to start
 adding the flowery "Life Is Rugby" stuff like this ...
 
    "... and after the drinkup as I was driving home, I thought to
    myself just how much the Mass Pike and, oh hell, this great cosmos
    of life we call Planet Earth, is exactly like rugby.  Rugby
    Football, of course, *not* Rugby Union.   But you know, those
    green exit signs with the Pilgrim hats remind me of the practice
    we had just last week where Timmy, our 275 pound prophead, said to
    me:
    
    'You know, 'Saw, life is like your left rugby cleat.  First you
    break it in and then it's your friend forever.'
    
    Ain't it the truth ?   Although Mad Dog might have said it better
    when he said ... "Burp!" after his tenth rugby cleat full of ale.
    
    Ah, life.  Ah, rugby."
    
 Bob Hunt
8.345Rugby on NESNCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 26 1991 15:126
    NESN has been advertising that they will be televising some rugby this
    season.  From their ads it looks to me like it will be Rugby League. 
    This is a professional version of the game Frank, Rachael, and I play. 
    The rules are slightly different, but the basics are pretty much the
    same.  From what Frank has said, NESN will also be televising some
    Union matches, namely  few Eagles games.
8.346Still got a ways to go, I seeSHALOT::HUNTIf Do Then Damned Else DamnedFri Apr 26 1991 15:1821
8.347CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 16:3631
Yes, Orange and blue are a bitchin' set of colors.....

The Denver Barbarians.  I'm not positive but I'd guess they are named
after *THE* Barbarians.

The Barbarians are a world class rugby club.  Their spiritual home
is Cardiff Arms Park, in Wales, but they really don't have a place
of origin.  The players who play for the Barbarians are the best in the
world, and play for them by invitation only.  

At any given times they will always be one of the best teams in the world,
and by tradition, one of their players is always a player who has yet to
play for a national side in an international match...


Many times the names will be reused in "honor" of another club.  The
Hartford Wanderers are named after the famous Dublin Wanderers (our colors
are different though).


As to not understanding anything Chris, it just takes a few moments to
read some simple explanations to understand the terminology.  Surely you
know that if you're a nuclear physicist, you will use terms that the
average layman wouldn't.  Same thing with rugby.

I'll post the excellent texts that Mac had in an earlier incarnation of the
file....

'Saw

PS  The Denver Barbarians are the national champs for 1990....
8.348This should make it fairly easy to understand....CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 16:38190
8.349LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 26 1991 16:5519
	OK Mac, in the interests of the reputation of the game and risking my
superbutch image...

	Rugby in the US has changed quite a bit in the US in the last (I don't
know how many for men, but about 8 for women) years.  It used to be just a
bizzare thing that only people who do drink a lot would do, but it's now
catching on to some very good atheletes.  I believe the US women's team that
won World Cup had 3 former Olympic atheletes on it.

	And, gasp, I think the total amount of beer I've drank in the last
year would total something between a six-pack and a half-case.  But don't
tell anyone, as I have an image to protect.

	The amount of beer some of my teammates drink absolutely amazes me,
but they are very good athelets and hold serious jobs, so I think it is in
control even though it seems like a lot to me.  

Rachael

8.350BDWISR::WASKOMFri Apr 26 1991 16:5820
    Dickster -
    
    You got it :-) :-)!!  With that line, you'll be right at home at the
    drink-up.  (Forget the sidelines during the game, however.  The players
    are still sober, watching the play, and it all makes sense.  Ask
    questions there.)
    
    And you had me rolling, big-time.
    
    In general -
    
    I've been impressed, reading in here, at the differences in the
    practice strategies from 12+ years ago.  Far more disciplined and well
    thought out.  Mac's comments about changing the image of the game are
    right on the money, and it starts there.  I've also been impressed that
    the drink-ups post-game have been, ummmmm, calmer than the ones I knew
    previously.  Certainly fewer folks getting totally blitzed.  (I do,
    however, miss the singing, which seems to have disappeared as well.)
    
    A&W
8.352CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 17:4048
Being a relative newcomer to the game, I don't remember days when it
was a bunch of folks trying to kick some major ass and then lose mega
brain cells afterwards.

What I know now is this:  

	- Yes, we all like our beer.  But, on our team we have one recovering
	  alcoholic who drinks nothing but Coca-Cola at the post game, and
	  a lot of guys like me who will put down a few brews, but don't
	  get snookered any more because it's just too damn hard hurting
	  from rugby AND a hangover the next day.

	- The game demands a high degree of fitness.  Believe me, I know what
	  it's like to play this game out of shape and without lifting.  I
	  have had the most helacious spring of my life, and have sworn 
	  to NEVER AGAIN report to camp so out of shape.  

	- Fitness is lifting and running.  A typical rugby game uses several
	  kinds of strength, for a forward anyway.  You go from a static
          kind of brute strength in a scrum, into a sprint, then use a more
	  fluid kind of strength in a ruck or maul.  Very seldom is there
	  a Sunday morning where less than my entire body is sore.

	- Weight lifting also provides your protection from hits.  The only
	  padding you have is your muscles, really. 

	- The game demands an amazing amount of dedication and commitment.
	  You can't play rugby occasionally, like I sometimes used to with
	  softball.   You lose it much more quickly in this sport than in
	  any other I've ever seen.

	- Finally, I think the reason that rugby teams are so tight, is 
	  because of the high degree of teamwork that is required.  It's
	  very easy to get back at a guy on your team who has let you all
	  down.  You just don't get there soon enough to support him when
	  he's got the ball....  It takes 15 guys to win at rugby, playing
	  like one guy....really.

There are still clubs who have a reputation as being wild, or more interested
in fighting.  We played the New York Irish last week, and they really just
wanted to fight.

The Wanderers are very conscious of our image in the community also.  We
want people to be proud of us, not assume we're a bunch of hard drinking
hooligans....

Just some humble opinions,
'Saw
8.353LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri Apr 26 1991 18:028
Hawk,
	I would not want you to have a bad weekend.  Let me assure you that
I am equally as likely to wrap you up in electrical tape and run my 
(replacable, not the new molded) cleats across your face with no beers in 
me as I would with 6.  

Rachael

8.354CAM::WAYI believe I'll dust my broom...Fri Apr 26 1991 18:0813
Wow, Rachael, now you've got ME going !!!!!!!  8^) 8^) 8^)

Hawk, I think I'd take her up on that if I were you....sounds like
GREAT fun.

BTW, when do you folks replace your cleats.  I've had my Flankers for
a season and a half, and the cleats look plenty good to me, but I 
know guys who'll replace them every season....

I have a feeling the uppers will wear out before the cleats do, but
I'd like to know what the concensus is.....

'Saw
8.356CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 26 1991 18:256
    I don't recall how often I replace my studs.  I just do it when they
    look worn.  I keep a set of rubber studs and a set of aluminum and swap
    them in depending on field/weather conditions.  For hard, dry ground I
    use the rubber studs.  The aluminum go in wet, muddy conditions, or
    when I'm in a bad mood ;^).  I hardly ever used the aluminum studs when
    I played in Texas.
8.357CAM::WAYDoin' the DownSize shuffle...Fri Apr 26 1991 18:354
Oh, I just have the aluminum ones that came on my flankers.  I just use
those all the time.  Don't know any better I guess 8^)

'Saw
8.358Lots of games...LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 29 1991 11:4477
    	Well, I'll do first report today.  We has a great weekend.  We
    went, as Beantown, to the ERU select side tournament.  We played the
    Potomac RFU, Cornell (as a B-side), Florida State University (not
    really a school team, our east coast arch-rivals) and the ERU minus
    Beantown, which is basically Florida State with any minor weaknesses
    filled in with other East Coast players.  Instead of picking the ERU
    select side at the tourney, which is what has been done in the past,
    the selectors are having a camp in the Fall, and will invite people to
    the camp based on what they saw this weekend.  To that end, they put
    together a team X versus team Y game on Sunday, to view some players
    they noticed on Saturday, but didn't know that well.  
    	We beat the PRU in a rather sluggish first match.  We actually
    played harder in the first half then we did in the second, which is
    unusual for us.  Usually, we come out too slow, if anything.  The game
    ended up being a 20 minute first half and 30 minute second half, with
    the second half on the other field, due to an injury that they didn't
    want to move right at 20 minutes.  I don't remember much about  that
    game, although I was in it.  It wasn't too awesome.
    	The Cornell game I will remember for a while, as I scored 1.5
    tries.  The first was a pushover, I was playing #8 because we started
    short.  (Some of our players were filling in for NERFU, and we just
    went ahead and started without them).  We went over the line and our
    scrumhalf and I (I don't really know who did it first) touched it down.
    The second was a beautiful run about 50 meters down the sideline with
    our #8 (she was back then) and a wing, and about 2 or 3 opposition. 
    My two teammates passed once or twice between them, first the wing was
    brought down and she passed to the eight, then the eight was brought
    down and she made a just barely pass to me, I ran in with someone right
    on my heels and made a yard or two towards the center then touched it
    down as Cornell caught up to me.  I was so happy, I haven't scored much
    since I got out of school and I wanted to do it again so I would have
    the feeling there and could better visualize myself doing it.  Being in
    support and creating an overlap is a perfect way for a flanker to
    score.  Sigh.  And Cornell is a pretty good college team too, they were
    by no means a walkover game.
    	Then Beantown played FSU, for the real blood lust game of the
    tourney.  They are very nice and the teams are very friendly off the
    pitch, but the games between them and us are for blood.  The match was
    very high quality, hard hitting and fast.  Lots of really beautiful
    execution on both sides.  We won, I don't remember by how much,
    probably by about 6 or 8 points.
    	Then, (yes, there were a lot of games) a few of our players were in
    the (ERU minus FSU) versus FSU game Sunday morning.  That game was kind
    of a disaster for us.  The goalposts were knocked down by a maul, with
    our prop taking much of the impact.  The ref really didn't whistle soon
    enough once they started to sway.  And these were solid metal posts,
    permanent ones.  We ended up having one of our centers with a big bump
    on her forhead, our prop getting hit again and having stitches in her
    forehead, and our fullback going out with bruised (?) ribs.  
    	Next was the X versus Y game.  I played in that for the Y team, I
    think we were not evenly matched and we lost by about 12 or 16 to 4.
    I didn't feel like I played that well in the game, but I sure was tired
    afterwards.  And I was very happy to be asked to play.  I plan on
    making my serious run for the ERU select side in another year or two,
    and it's very important to be looked at now even if I don't make it
    yet.
    	Then Beantown played (the ERU minus Beantown).  Basically, we didn't
    play that well, and lost by about 8 or 12 points.  We were missing the
    3 players who went out in the ERU game, but I don't think that's why we
    lost.  It was a very fast game and Beantown was matching for speed in
    terms of being there, but our execution suffered.  In the first half,
    the forwards were not winning good ball.  In the second half, we got
    better ball but the backs dropped a lot of balls and did some
    ill-placed kicking.  A few times we let Patty Gervais (sp?) of FSU get
    up a full head of steam, and she is one of the quickest people I've
    ever seen.  I think she scored either all, or all but one of their
    tries.   I think we were tired, but more then that, it was a game won
    by the team that wanted it more and they were it this team.  As our
    captain pointed out, it was made up of the best of all the teams that
    we've beat for the last two or more years, so they really wanted it.
    	All in all a good weekend, except my girlfriend's car croaked on
    the way home and we had to get it towed to Lee, MA.  Luckily, some of
    our teammates saw us on the side of the road, so we got home OK, but we
    have to go back there and get the beast sometime soon.  She thinks it's
    probably her radiator, so it won't cost too much.
    
    Rachael
8.359CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Mon Apr 29 1991 12:0768
Well, we had the big matchup against Worcester on Saturday, at The Rock
in Colt Park.

I'm sure Mac will get his impressions in here, but it was a BIG day for 
Hartford, in that last season, WRFC beat us for the first time in Hartford
history.

It was a hot day, but other than that a good day for rugby.

I don't know all the scores, but I can tell you that A side held them
to 3 points, B side shut them out, and C side held them to 4 points.  All
in all a good day.

On the A side, there was a lot of sloppy play from Hartord.  There were a lot
of bad passes in the back line, and quite often the ball stayed in the
scrummage far too long.  From my vantage point it looked as if a lot
of the balls came back out of the tunnel, and I was wondering why the
ref didn't call it, but I'm probably mistaken.

We did score one really nice try on a play we call the Count Special.  Count
is our coach, and we actually have about four Count Specials -- one from the
line out, one from a five meter scrum ....(you get the picture)....  Anyway,
Tommy Vinick set it up, and it was just really something to see.  I swear, 
even at 35 I think Vin could make the Eagles again if he really wanted to.
He has such a great mind for playing fly half.  He knows just when to mix
it up, when to put the toe on it, and what not....

I really didn't see too much of the B side game, but I did get to see
Mac play.  I'll let him  describe his day going up against Doc....


On C side, we had an enjoyable day.  The heat was definitely killer heat,
but we tried to water up early, and stay cool.  Still it was REAL hot.

The game started out on an ominous note.  Kevin Sarr was back from
New Mexico for a visit, and since we didn't have a hooker, he filled in.
We kicked to them, and told Kev that the first hit was his, as kind of
a welcome back present.  Well, Kev laid this MONSTER hit on the guy
who caught the ball, and the guy had to take a minute.  That set the entire
tone of the game.

We scrummaged well, in fact, the props kept saying that the second
row was giving a great push.  Rick and I worked our asses off, and it
paid off, in that we won some of WRFC's put ins....  I did find out afterward
that Tubbsie, the guy who got the prop selection over me, was getting
lifted all afternoon.  I kind of figured that would happen since I was
doing it to him in practice last week.  Oh well, we'll see what happens
THIS week.

By midway through the second half, all of the forwards were hurtin' from the
heat.  I had managed to get to a lot more of the loose play this week than
I did last week, and did handle the ball a couple of times.  I did commit
the CARDINAL SIN of a Wanderers forward however, in that in the first half,
I got the ball behind a maul on a pass from the scrum half (who was stuck
in it).  I heard the fly half screaming his head off for the ball, so
I made a long pass to him.  Well, all I heard about the rest of the afternoon
was that forwards don't do that.  Hell, I figured if Steve was calling
that badly, he must've seen an overlap or something.  Oh well, next time
I'll just keep it and go.....8^)

Anyway, we won.  I must say that the ref called far too many knock ons
though.  We did a LOT of scrummaging that day, and when no-side was blown,
I think EVERYONE was happy....

Next week, we've got Union, somewhere in Connecticut, but not at Colt Park
since they're having some stupid carnival there.....

'Saw
8.360BDWISR::WASKOMMon Apr 29 1991 12:4216
    Actually, all three games were Wanderers 25+ to under 10 for Worcester
    (actual Worcester scores accurately reported -- I stop keeping track of
    scores around 22 points unless both teams are scoring lots).  However,
    I believe that Worcester eventually won the drink-up :-)
    
    'Saw - most of what you saw as coming out the tunnel was actually
    coming out from the second row.  I'm not sure that's legal, either, but
    it's a little better.
    
    All three games were well played.  'Twas a great day to be a fan.
    
    Final note -- tonight, either NESN or SC will be broadcasting the US
    Eagles/Japan match.  It doesn't start until 11 pm, so I'll be taping
    it.  
    
    A&W
8.361LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 29 1991 12:514
    OUt the second row is not only legal, but it's a field day for the
    opposing flanker.
    
    Rachael
8.362CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Mon Apr 29 1991 13:2329
Okay, since I was on the hill doing my best impression of an ESPN camera man,
I didn't catch that.  I do tape a great game though!

And our scrum half (a kid named Billy Starkey) WAS having a field day.
Starkey is a little crazy, but plays like a demon!  He's gonna give
Derek (our usual A side scrum half) a helluva run for his money....

As to scores, it's the toughest thing in the world to keep track of the
score when you're playing.  You know vaguely whether you're ahead or not,
and vaguely if they're close.   It's a lot easier when it's a blow out
since you know they haven't scored much and you have....


I know that if we played as well as Count wanted, we'd be in the final
four.  I thought our A side played a good game, but to hear Count you'd
have thought Worcester blew US out.  He was standing next to me most of
the time I was taping, and he was going NUTS.  He'd be yelling, then
he'd be talking to me:

	"Did you SEE that?  (I'm taping it right?)  Did you SEE that.
	 so-and-so made ANOTHER bad pass!"

	"Dammit, that ball is in the scrum too long!"

	"JESUS, he had an overload on the wing and he takes it straight up"

It was pretty funny.  He's a good coach though....

'Saw
8.363Really ???SHALOT::HUNTIf Do Then Damned Else DamnedMon Apr 29 1991 14:0115
8.364CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Mon Apr 29 1991 14:1516
Well, Bob, it does have an element of humor to it....IF you're not the
prop against the goal post.

But if you stop and think about it, it's not that unusual.  Figure that
there were 10 folks in the maul.  Now, the women weight a little less than
the guys, I'm sure, but figuring men's weight, you'd have let's say four
props at 200 a piece (probably more), and a couple of flankers (easily
180), and with a couple more people that could get to be a ton of force...

Rolling mauls are scary places to be sometimes, because the only way you
can stop one is to start pulling people (preferabley the ball carrier)
down.  To do that is somewhat akin to jumping under a roto-tiller....

Not for the feint of heart....8^)

'Saw
8.365LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 29 1991 14:3811
	When I was writing about that, I knew it would sound funny to the 
non-players, as you think we are all just a bunch of barbarians beating
on each other anyways.  And I think you're right, if you're not a player,
it sounds funny.  But, as a player, it was pretty scary, someone could have
been paralyzed or killed by that post, and it was really questionable on how
the ref played it.  I've been in several games where the posts were knocked 
down, usually city fields with poorly maintained facilities or temporary posts.
This was a nice park, so I'm surprised it happened.


Rachael
8.366ClarificationsBDWISR::WASKOMMon Apr 29 1991 15:0812
    Worcester Telegram had scores of the WRFC/HWRFC matches.
    	38 - 3 A side
    	24 - 0 B side
    	36 - 4 C side
    They seemed closer than that, and the play was better than the
    scores would indicate.
    
    Also, the US/Japan match is at 10:30 pm on NESN....
    
    A&W
    
    
8.367CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Mon Apr 29 1991 15:1929
It's really nice that the newspaper had the scores.

I wish the Hartford Courant would do that.  I mean, when you come right down
to it, we are Hartford's ONLY championship caliber sports team, which is
something we are quite proud of.

Also, I'm bummed about the lack of coverage/knowledge of rugby in general.
First, I would think that after the Women Eagles won the rugby world cup,
it would have merited at least a small blurb in SI.  I mean, after all,
how many World Cups do we win in ANYTHING?

Second, my pet peeve is the constant misuse of the word scrum by sportscasters.
I can see the average layman misunderstanding the term, and thinking it's
just a free-for-all melee, but it's hardly that at all.  Law 20 covers
the binding and do's and don't of a scrum in quite some detail.  I dare
say we have more to worry about in there as individuals than an offensive
tackle does in football.  (To the best of my recollection, he has to worry
about being offside and moving before the snap)....  You'd think that 
sportscasters might know at least a little bit about it....

My final pet peeve (while we're on the subject) is that Land's End, who
make the BEST rugby shirts I've ever used, won't do work for any teams.
I'd love to get our green and black hoops from Land's End.  Maxmore is ok,
but it doesn't seem to hold up as well as the shirts from Land's End....
Land's End handles the Eagles and that's all.....8^(

Guess it must be Monday!

'Saw
8.368It wasn't pretty from my front row seatCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 29 1991 15:2729
    I think 'Saw and A&W are being kind.  Worcester got their butts kicked. 
    The first half of the A-side game was pretty close, but Hartford took
    over from there.  It didn't help losing our first side scrum half to a
    broken ankle early in the second half either (found out later he broke
    a bone in his foot and separated a tendon or two from the bone - he had
    to stay in Hartford overnight).
    
    As 'Saw said, I propped against Doc in the B game.  It was one of the
    friendlier front rows I've been in in a while.  In fact, I've been
    chiding myself for not being a little more agressive in there to try to
    gain some type of advantage.  Hartford scrums very well together.  We
    won most of our own put-ins, but we were usually driven back during the
    process (and most of the time at least my lock and I were locked out
    and digging up turf rather than backpedalling).  Hartford used the
    rolling maul to perfection.  Our rucking game wasn't going too badly,
    but we weren't getting to the loose ball fast enough.  A few of us were
    shocked at half time when our coach came out and told us we were
    playing very well.  I wanted to ask him what game he was watching.
    
    I was going to take the field again for the second half of the C-side
    match so I could get a shot at 'Saw and a fellow WPI alum, but I was
    exhausted from the B match and my legs were cramping up.  I don't know
    how the handful of A-side players managed to get through it.  My hat is
    off to our B-side scrum half who filled in for the injured player in
    the first game, and then gave us a complete B-side match as well.
    
    Next up, Boston.  Lucky us.  Well, if nothing else, these games should
    be good character builders to get us ready for the New England
    tournament.
8.369Rugby & the local mediaCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 29 1991 15:3411
8.370LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon Apr 29 1991 16:1312
As far as the women's game goes, forget about non-rugby recognition, how about
something from the Union?  Our World Cup players got $0 from the USRFU to go
to Wales for 2 weeks.  I think they got $100 each from the ERU, which is 
pretty decent considering most of the ERU budget goes to USRFU dues.  These
are the best players in the world!
	The select side tourney we attended this last weekend, hosted by
Albany rugby, was great.  They also were given $0 by the Union to host, and
I'm not sure they have any (and I'm sure it's few) players on the ERU select
side.

	
Rachael
8.371CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 29 1991 16:3410
    I agree with you Rachael.  There needs to be better accountablity and
    allocation of funds on the National, Territorial, and Local Union
    level.  USARFU has been paying alot of lip service to the development
    of rugby at the college and high school levels, but most of the money
    goes to the Eagles (the men as you've pointed out).
    
    I must admit that it has gotten better at the college level over the
    last few years.  When I played at WPI in the early 80s, we paid NERFU
    dues, but there was no college league structure, very few referees, and
    a nebulous attempt at deciding local, territorial, and national champs.
8.372CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Mon Apr 29 1991 17:3721
Mac --

You woulda kicked my butt good out there...  It was HOT.  I tried to water up
before the game, and we did have orange sections at half time, but I just 
couldn't seem to get enough water.  I was so thirsty after the game that
the beer didn't even taste good.  Plus, late in the second half I was
getting really nauseous....

Doc is a really clean player up front.  I mean, he will get into it if
he has to (I saw him have a great little bout with a guy from Boston --
he beat the guy like a redheaded stepchild) but for the most part, he's
just good and clean.

I hate it when a captain comes out and says you're playing well when you're
not.  Fortunately, Count doesn't do that to us.  He'll tell us how to go
about winning and stuff, but he won't sugar coat anything.  But neither does
he tear us apart during a game -- practice, well......8^)

New England Tournament should be a GREAT day.....

'Saw
8.373US Eagles 20 Japan 9CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Tue Apr 30 1991 11:3699
Well, I had planned to tape it, but I ended up staying up late to watch
the Eagles.

The telecast was not too bad.  The announcer was not all that familiar with
rugby, but the color commentator was a coach at some college out west, so
that helped.

They started by explaining the rule, with a series of clips from games.  I felt
they did an adequate job with that.  I was somewhat annoyed that they
kept referring to things as a 25-yard dropout, or a 5 yard scrum, because
the Laws are all metric, and we're so used to using 22 meter drop, or a 
five meter scrum.  At any rate, I'm sure that was done to not alienate
would be American fans.   They also played up the similarities to football.

The WORST part of the whole thing was the national anthem.  Some witch
name Medusa was attempting to sing it accompanied by a trumpet player.
I would complain about the intonation, but there was NO intonation to speak
of, in that she couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.  Plus the damn thing took
almost ten minutes.  The Eagles were getting really antsy.

The game:


Due to a 25-30 mph wind, it was like two different games.  In the first
half, the Japanese had the wind, and managed ONLY nine points.  These were
on two penalty kicks and a drop goal.  

The ref I thought was calling a very tight game, and he was from Wales.  At
one point he called Brian Vizard (the Eagles 8man and captain) over and told
him that maybe in America they talked back to the ref but that he was not
going to put up with it.  There were several EXTRA penalties tacked on for
talking.

The US was having a hard time gaining any ground on their kicks to touch, 
mainly because of the wind.   However, the US forwards OWNED the Japanese
pack lock stock and barrel.  The half was characterized by the Eagles
rucking, mauling, and rolling mauling up the field with ease, then they
would lose possession, and the Japanese would kick the ball with the
aid of the wind, 60 or 70 yards to touch.

The US owned the lineouts too.  Kevin Swords, Eagle lock, who plays
for Beacon Hill, was superb, and he pulled down almost every lineout.
At one point, he pulled down the lineout, and instead of consolidating the
ball and getting it back to the scrum half, he barged through the line, 
running over and around the Japanese as if he were Godzilla!

The US came very close to scoring a try, but lost possession almost on the
on the line.

Half time score:  Japan 9  USA 0


In the second half, the Eagles had the wind, and their play really began
to shine.  They put three points on the board on a penalty kick, and then
began what amounted to a siege in the Japanese half of the field.  The 
Eagles outscrummed them (their prop were giving up at least 40 pounds to
the Eagle props) and stilled owned the lineouts.  In rugby, if you can
own most of all of the set pieces, you'll win.....

The Eagles tries were characterized by a lot of tough forward play down
deep in the Japanese end (within 5 meters almost all the time).  After
several attempts to score within the pack, they'd get the ball to the
scrum half who would spin it out the back line, and a back would touch
it down for the try.

There were three tries, a drop goal, and a couple of penalties.  All told,
the final was

		Japan 9  USA 20

The US is undefeated against the Japanese, but the Japanese have a chance
for revenge this Saturday.


Late in the game, Eagle Loosehead prop Chris Lippert was sent off.  I couldn't
figure out why until they showed the replay.  When a Japanese forward
had Chris firmly about the ankle, preventing him from joining a ruck,
Chris stomped him on his haid.   An offense worth the send off, but
nothing that doesn't happen in most games....

Also, the Japanese were very ragged on their passing.  Supposedly, they
have VERY fast wings, and four or five times, they'd be passing the ball
down the back line, and the center would make a bad pass behind the wing,
the ball would go into touch, and next thing you know the Eagles were winning
lineout ball again.

The Japanese also made several questionable choices, in that often, when they
had a clear overlap on the wing, they would head the ball back in behind
the forwards.  Most times, the dominance of the Eagle forwards would prevail
and we'd end up with the ball.

Next Saturday's game (again tape delayed on NESN on Monday night) should
be interesting.....


'Saw

PS  Yesterday's USA today also had a rugby article, about the college final
    four that is soon to take place.....  I'll try to enter it tomorrow.
8.374COBRA::DINSMOREWhat ever happened to Bill Duggleby?Tue Apr 30 1991 11:504
    better to soar with eagles, then fly with turkeys eh saw?
    
    dinz :)
    
8.375CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Tue Apr 30 1991 12:028
Well, Dinz, the Eagles are pretty darn good.  I wish I had the skills and
fitness to play at that level.

I don't expect a lot of problems with the Japanese, but I'd be surprised
if the Eagles were to upset Scotland.

8^)
'Saw
8.376OZARDZ::WASKOMTue Apr 30 1991 14:5813
    For any of those interested, I have a tape of the game.
    
    Unfortunately, I also stayed up and watched most of it.  Made getting
    up this am verrrryyy difficult.  Have to agree with 'Saw, the anthem
    was painful -- and I'm being charitable.  Neither the singer nor the
    trumpets could stay anywhere close to the tune, let alone in key. 
    Reminded me of going to grade school concerts.
    
    The game itself was pretty good, although I wasn't sure about how
    helpful the commentary would be to those who had never seen a game
    before.
    
    A&W
8.377Looked like fun but didn't really have a clueSHALOT::HUNTIf Do Then Damned Else DamnedTue Apr 30 1991 16:0625
8.378CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 30 1991 16:424
    Actually, 'Saw, our coach isn't one to sugar coat things.  If we're
    playing like pond scum, he'll be the first to tell us.  I haven't lost
    that badly in a long time and I don't like losing that badly.  Maybe I
    was a bit too sensitive.
8.379CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Tue Apr 30 1991 17:0146
Bob --

	The meaning of life comes when you actually PLAY 8^).  Seriously,
	the game is extremely physical, and I've found it really helps me
	to measure who I am, what I am capable of, how far down inside me
	I can reach when I'm calling for that last little bit of effort,
	and how much I can improve myself.

	Chris Lippert, the prop who stomped the guy, is a mean-looking dude.
	He goes around 250, and most of that is REAL solid looking.  I'd
	not want to scrum against him!!!

	Kevin Swords, the lock, is a big boy who plays for Beacon Hill.
	What I'm waiting for is to see Brian Shell, our A side lock, who's
	roughly the same size, get the call for the Eagles.  Brian handles
	Swords pretty well when we take on Beacon Hill, so it will be 
	interesting to see if he ever gets the call.  Last weekend he
	played for the ERU Select Side, which is sort of the step below...

	Scrumming is an art, in that there's a technique to it.  Get LOW
	is probably the first part, and getting your butt down is probably
	the second part.  And you gotta LOVE to do it, to do it well.
	On the other hand, when you OWN a pack, and you can walk them at
	will, there's no better feeling in the world.

	
On the game/announcers:

	I believe it was the color guy, when he was talking about the props,	
	said "It's probably the most difficult position in any sport on earth."
	A bit of hyperbole, perhaps, but I had to smile.

	Also found myself very disgusted when after a deliberately wheeled
	scrum by the Eagles, the announcer goes "Did you see the Japanese
	pack push the Americans?"   DUH!


Mac:

	I hear ya.  I hate to lose period, whether it's close or not, but
	the blowout definitely hurts.  You guys DID play us tough, and
	you scrummed well too.....  That's MY opinion.....


later,
'Saw
8.380MCIS1::DHAMELI need some sensible shortsTue Apr 30 1991 19:5112
    
    >	The meaning of life comes when you actually PLAY 8^).  Seriously,
    >	the game is extremely physical, and I've found it really helps me
    >	to measure who I am, what I am capable of, how far down inside me
    >	I can reach when I'm calling for that last little bit of effort,
    >	and how much I can improve myself.
    
    Oh, fer cryin' out loud, you can do this in bed, and you don't need
    cleats.
    
    Dickstah
    
8.382CAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Wed May 01 1991 11:5332
Tough practice last night.  

I think Count has it in for us, because EVERY Tuesday has started with
a timed two-miler.  Last night was no exception, and it took a long time
to get my calves stretched out afterwards.

The best part was the scrum sled.  I'd been waiting all season for us to
do that.  In the summer, we do it all the time.  Anyway, the sled was fun.
We started with just a front row, went to tight five and then added on
the loose forwards.  AND for the FIRST time, I really FELT what a prop
is supposed to feel.  I could literally feel the push from the locks going
right through my back  The more I got my butt down, the more I could feel
it. 

Did some live scrummaging after that, simulating five meter stuff.  That was
tough.  Immediately the feeling was gone.  I've got to work on getting long,
and letting the other prop support my weight, that way I'm using my weight
to my advantage.

Also, the difference in locks is amazing.  When Brian Shell is behind me,
it's the greatest push, and I've got a good platform for my butt.  With
some of the newer locks, it ain't anywhere near as good.....

Fitness was unopposed shadow drill, with pack and back line.  Somehow I got
in with the A Side the first four or five times.  It was all I could do to
keep close to their pack on the rucks and mauls.  When my tongue was finally
hanging down around my knees they switched me back to second side.  The funny
part there was that I was really burning out of the scrums and rucks there.

Dead tired last night, still am today....

'Saw
8.383Wanderers Game in different part of Colt ParkCAM::WAYShe said she sure could take it if I rolled her...Wed May 01 1991 11:5618
For anyone interested, our home game is in a different part of Colt Park this
weekend.....

Using the directions giving earlier the variation is as follows:

		- at the interesetion of Wawarme Ave and Locust St,
		  go straight across onto Curcomb.  

		- At the first stop sign take a left.   the field is
		  on the left, parking on the right.

	
A side steps off at 12:30......


Rachael, do you know where YOUR game is this weekend?????

'Saw
8.385CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Wed May 01 1991 13:2839
>    Damn, 'Saw!  I know you ruggers use no padding whatsoever, but do you
>    guys at least wear a cup, or is that considered taking away some of the
>    meaning of life?  :-)  Sheet, if you retire with your scrotum intact
>    and unscrummed, you deserve to call your first-born son "Testicles"
>    (the Greek myth pronunciation)...  :-)

Hawk,  I personally don't wear a cup, but I do usually wear a support.
No one I know wears a cup, but usually just a support.

It's been my experience (and maybe Mac can elaborate since he's played lots
longer) that you really don't take too many shots to that area, if you're
playing right.  Mostly, a cup would just get in the way.

In fact, I took a pretty good shot to the 'nads (filberts?) down in the
Bahamas.  We were running a penalty play we call Denver, which is where the
pack clusters up and the first three guys just charge hard, the middle guys
takes the ball from the scrum half and passes back to the guy who's really
gonna crash the line.

Well, this one MONSTER on the Hurricanes decided to cut through the first
three of us, going after the ball carrier.  He missed the ball carrier, and
I'd pulled up a little, so I could get back behind and support, and he plowed
into me hard, right in the filberts.  It took me a few steps to feel somewhat
normal again, but it wasn't that bad.  

I don't know what backs do however.....8^)

'Saw


PS  You are allowed to wear a shoulder pad if you're recovering from an
    injury, but it must be sewn into the jersey.  (There's another way
    it can be, but I don't have my Laws here)  It CAN'T be a harness type
    of pad thought.

    And for your trivia Law for the day, the referee is NOT allowed to give
    time to retie a shoelace.....

hth,
8.386CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Wed May 01 1991 13:318
Actually, Hawk, you know what hurts far worse than that is if your lock binds
just a tad low with his hand that's looking for your belt.  Every once in 
a while, he'll get a handful of hair, and as he pulls to bind tight during 
the scrum, it hurts like HELL....  (Ever have that happen Mac???)

8^)
'Saw

8.387CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 01 1991 19:037
    I have only run across one rugger who used a cup.  My wife always says
    that she knows when a player got hit in that area - it's the only time
    he doesn't grab/hold what's injured.
    
    re: the lock bind -- Austin advocates locks binding on the props
    shorts.  In Worcester it was always on the props shirt.  After a couple
    of weeks in Austin I was considering getting a bikini shave ;^).
8.388CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Thu May 02 1991 11:2317
Mac,

Your wife is right!  8^)


As to the binding, anything goes in Hartford.  Strangely enough, most of the
props prefer the shorts.  I do also.  I'll take my chances on the odd
handful of hair grab.

It is tough to get shorts though, it you have a person with an espeically
large stomach.  Richie 0, the fellow who came in for us at half time
on C side at loosehead is such an individual.  Sometimes, in the heat of
battle I'll grab shirt, because it's simpely too hard to find his waistband.

Fortunately, I'm not THAT bad 8^)

'Saw
8.389LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu May 02 1991 11:369
	Prop quote -- "Hey, there's hair there!"  in an unusually high pitched
voice.
	'Saw, I think we're playing in Colt Park, apparently our pitch is in
a different part of the Park.  I also found out that Hartford has agreed to
field two sides against us, so it looks like I'll get a game after all.
I'll try to enter the details tomorrow, after practice, but I might not
get to a terminal as I'll be in an all day meeting.

Rachael
8.390CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Thu May 02 1991 11:4619
re the prop quote:

	NOW I know why that color commentator said that prop is the hardest
	position to play in all of sport 8^) 8^)

re Colt Park.

	We'll be way up in the corner of the park near Dillon Stadium.
	The streets next to our field are Curcomb and Henrixson.

	And besides, if we're there, we're probably the only men's rugby
	game going on. 

	So, if you're there, be sure and stop by.  Just ask for frank, or
	No Way ('Saw ain't my nickname on the rugby squad....)


later,
'Saw
8.392CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Thu May 02 1991 14:1929
It's a reality of the game Hawkster, just like face rakes and cauliflower ears.

It only happens to props, because the 8man usually binds on the locks hips,
so that they don't have to worry about the same thing.

Saw a thing of beauty last Tuesday, as we were working with the scrum sled.
While serving as ballast on the sled, we were working on getting out of
a scrum to a ruck close by.  As soon as the scrum half  yelled "ball's out"
you could see the loose forwards peal off, then, you could see the tight
five unencumber themselves.  It looked really cool, almost like something
you'd see at an airshow.....


Okay.  Rugby question.

On the Eagles game the other evening, when Lippert got tossed, the color
guy remarked that IF a front row player is ejected, while the team must
play one man down, they may replace the front row player with another
player from the sidelines, and remove another guy.  The reason given
was that the front row players are really specialists, and that someone
who didn't know how to play there could easily get injured.

I looked all through the Laws and didn't find any notes/interpretations
on this.  Have any of you heard of this before?????

Mac, ever gotten sent off?


'Saw
8.393AGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 02 1991 16:4415
8.394WRFC at BRFCAGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 02 1991 16:452
    Worcester is playing Boston this Saturday at Franklin Park in Boston. 
    First game kicks off at 1 pm.
8.395CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Thu May 02 1991 17:2721
Good luck.

Hey, we've got their Monster Lock (Waz) so you should be able to beat
them.  8^)

Seriously, I think they've got an Eagle on their squad, but that shouldn't
make much difference cause the Eagles are playing Japan again....


I've never gotten sent off, but when you do for Hartford, you have to 
apologize to the team afterwards.  I don't know which is worse 8^)

'Saw








8.396Love means never having to say you're sorry!CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Thu May 02 1991 17:371
    
8.397CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Thu May 02 1991 18:2926
re .396:

	I think it's more of a formality, than anything.  However, if you
	think about it, if you get sent off, you really have let the team
	down (because it does take ALL fifteen of you out there to play).

	Imagine my dilemma, then, when asking Doc for advice (Doc's been
	on the team the longest and is by far the most experienced rugby
	player I know) on when to walk away from it, and when to brawl.

	Doc says "Well, remember, you should always take one in the face
	for the team.  If you can get the other guy tossed, you should
	do that, no matter how much it might hurt.  Then again, on the
	other hand, you should probably beat him like a redheaded stepchild.
	Of course, if you do that and get tossed, then you have to apologize
	to the team,  On the other hand......

	I guess you just make the decision when the time comes.  I've broken
	up more fights (3) than I've been involved in (0), but the rule of 
	thumb I've heard is that about every three years or so you haul
	off and slug someone, so I have a way to go.....

	I know I won't get sent off for talking back, because I NEVER
	talk to the ref.....

'Saw
8.398LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu May 02 1991 18:5117
	I've never gotten tossed, but I got a penalty in DC for punching 
someone.  I was trying to dissuade her from holding me, the team we were
playing was holding to excess.  Generally, when I find someone holding me,
I will hit their arm in a manner such as to discourage them.  However, I was
a trifle overzealous.  I think I was just pissed because we were getting screwed
over in the tournament.  (That's the one we were disqualified from for bringing
too many players, but weren't warned not to.)  I was quite embarassed and 
apologized to the opposing captain after the match.

	On ears, don't forget the detached earlobe problem.  Our hookers 
changed their hook in practice last weekend.  My girlfriend, who usually
doesn't need an earwig with these guys, had the bottom of her inside ear
torn. (At second row)  It was a little cut but really gross.  She ended up 
playing four games last weekend with the injury still quite fresh, and it was 
very painful as well as there being the worry of making it worse.  

Rachael
8.399A hockey game can break out in rugby ;^)CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 02 1991 19:096
    I was told one way to prevent having someone sent off from a match is
    to have the rest of the team jump into the altercation.  This way the
    ref won't know who to send off and will just issue a warning.
    
    Then again, I have seen a couple of games stopped by a referree when
    this type of thing does happen.
8.400OZARDZ::WASKOMThu May 02 1991 19:3812
    Grrrr.  I have just found out how much I was looking forward to coming
    down to Hartford Saturday.  'Cause it now looks like I won't be able to
    make it and I am mega-pissed.  (I have been harping at the genetic
    derivative for *two months* about his term project for physics.  This
    morning he told me he needs the car to be at the library tonight [I
    have another engagement which will have to be cancelled] and Saturday
    for said project.  Since I don't want him to flunk the class, I'm
    between a rock and a hard place.)
    
    Whine.  Pout.  Phooey.  Stomp, stomp, stomp.  Pout.  :-(
    
    A&W 
8.401:-)7221::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu May 02 1991 19:506
    If he ate nails for breakfast and pissed barbed wire the way he did in
    the play, then he'd walk to the library, stomping on little animals
    along the way and get the project done even if he had to travel through
    pouring rain.  And, you can quote me.
    
    John
8.402Avis/Hertz/'Saw's taxi-lomo service???CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Thu May 02 1991 19:501
    
8.403CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Fri May 03 1991 11:3867
re Scrum Ear:

	It's a pretty cool injury in that it looks a lot worse than it
	feels.  Although my case last year didn't rip the lob, but cut the
	outside of that bottom part of your ear, when it continually abraded
	against my earwig.

	It was cool during the game cause I was bleeding pretty good.  But
	then during the week, it'd get really itchy, so I'd sit here and
	scratch it and the next thing you know I'd be bleedin' again.  Kind
	of embarrassing to have happen in a meeting.....8^)

	Also, those little injuries just don't go away until the off season.

	Last season it was ears.  This season it's ankles and feet.  I swear
	if this season doesn't end soon, I'm gonna chop my feet off and buy
	a new pair.  And my ankles, forget it, they're gone.  The first 
	few sprints of every practice (no matter how warmed up I am) are
	like running with ground glass in there 8^(.  That's from being
	overweight and trying to sprint.....

re Alison/The Car:
	
	I'm not a parent, but if it were *me*, I'd say "You let the project	
	go, you find your own transportation.  Call a cab, take a bus,
	walk".....  

re selections:

	I'm halfway between being pissed off and trying to be really positive
	about tomorrow's match.  I got another goddam lock selection again.
	What has me wicked pissed is that Tubbs, the prop, wasn't even at
	practice this week.   The kid is mobile, but he spent more time
	in the air last week in the scrum, than Delta Airlines.

	On the other hand, I feel like kicking some ass.  The field will
	be a forward's field this week, since we've had to move to another
	location in Colt park and don't have enough room to widen the field
	to a full width.  (Wings are pissed, forwards eyes lit up!)

	I guess I'm just pissed because I've been going to practice faithfully,
	and this kid's new and not all that great.  I'm not that mobile (as
	Alison or Mac could attest to) at least this season, but I've been
	scrumming really well.....

Practice:

	I think Count watched the Josef Mengele Rugby Fitness Clinic tape
	this past week.  

	At this point in the season, people tend to be really beat up.
	He's been running our asses off with 2 milers on Tuesdays, 
	brutal 15-20 minute wind sprint sessions on Thursdays, and then
	last night, when we broke down into forwards and backs, we did
	this particularly masochistic rucking drill.

	The main points were ball carrier going in low, next bunch of
	guys right up his afterburner to ruck, and the last guys in
	cleaning up the fringes.  I've never seen a fight break out
	in practice, but we all were within an inch of swinging last night.

Sh*t, after this week, I want to LEVEL someone in the game this weekend
and make him bleed.....


Arghhh,
'Saw_one_frustrated_rugger
8.404CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Fri May 03 1991 11:3912
On the BRIGHT side, though, it's looking like the Wanderers will get to
attend and participate in one of the Scottish practice sessions.  

What a RUSH that will be!

With that in mind, I've been working really hard on being the best
skittle I can be.  In fact, I'm hoping to get the Skittle of the Month
award from Rugby magazine.....

If not that, then Best Ballast on the Scrum Sled would be nice 8^)

'Saw
8.405OZARDZ::WASKOMFri May 03 1991 13:1011
    Believe me, I am sorely tempted to tell the kid to get his own
    transport.  However, this paper/project is 50% of his grade, and the
    paper portion of it is due Monday (project portion must be complete by
    the 15th), and while much of this is his own f****ng fault, I just
    don't have it in me to make the situation any worse.  I really would
    like him to pass the course.  (And he has to work on Sunday, so
    Saturday really is the only day available.)
    
    Question -  What's a skittle?
    
    A&W
8.406CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Fri May 03 1991 13:4626
Skittle :== ruck fodder for the A side....

Well, seriously, as skittle is just a defender.  When we run ruck drills,
we'll have a pack (say five guys) go out against a couple (maybe two)
"skittles".

The skittles attempt to give a little resistance, while attempting to
avoid the following:

		1. getting stepped on
		2. getting your knees f***ed up
		3. getting caught in the throat
		4. looking disheveled.

Being a skittle requires nothing to be good, but greatness as a skittle
is hard achieved....



Mac, you ever hear of a Flanker for the Dallas Harlequins A side name
Coho Grenville?  *IF* he exists, he's supposedly moving to Hartford
this week.  Personnally, I think someone was scamming our second best
A side flanker 8^)


'Saw
8.407If I get a chance, I'll ask Austin about that flankerCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 03 1991 14:0320
8.408CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Fri May 03 1991 15:0235
Well, regarding Coho, we were bustin' on Bobby pretty bad, to the point of
where we had Tom Vinick telling him that Tom remembered Coho from Eagles
camp....  It was pretty funny.

Anyway, the guy is supposed to be around 6'3 (tall for a flanker?) and
fast.....  *IF* he exists.


Yeah, selections have to be hard to do.  I know that they wanna get everyone
a game, and I know that I'm capable of scrumming at any tight five spot
except hooker, but it still pisses me off that I work my ass of all week
and then have to fill a utility roll.

To top it off I'm not even jumping in the lineout.  I'm playing the 5 spot
and stripping off 2.  

But, my attitude is getting better.  Stripping off 2 will help me a lot
if I ever play loosehead spot (1) in the lineout, because our loosehead
strips 4 and 6.

And I like the guy I'm playing lock with (same guy as last week) and we
just decide we're gonna be the engine room and go for it.  If we lift a prop
or two along the way, so be it 8^)


Good luck against Boston, another team (like NY Irish) where there's probably
more green cards than not....  All this division I action should really
prepare you for the NE Tournament.  Perhaps we can have the mother of all
drinkups when Hartford and Worcester win the championship of their respective
divisions......

8^)

'Saw

8.409CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 03 1991 15:237
8.410CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Fri May 03 1991 17:0419
Well, Count is giving us this fitness lecture, telling us we have to peak
on May 18th.  We finished second last year, and he doesn't want that to happen
again.

Meantime, he's treating us like we're a bunch of raw Marine Corps recruits.

Last night we ran, then did this sprint drill, where we'd run 20 and back
20 and back, rest, then 40 and back 40 and back until he'd blow the whistle,
then short rest...  Near the end we were doing push ups when we'd hit the
line, but the one that took the cake was the last bunch of them we were 
supposed to be diving over the line to score.  All of the props were saying,
'Oh yeah, this'll really come in handy'....those props that could still
muster their breath to talk.

Looking forward to some long runs in the off season, and then to the fall!


Good luck tomorrow,
'Saw
8.411CAM::WAYThat mean mannish boy....Fri May 03 1991 18:386
NEWSFLASH:

		Today, in Twickenham, England, the
		Honest Touch Judges Convention was held.

		Unfortunately, they both failed to show up.....
8.412LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 06 1991 11:0834
	So, 'Saw, by the time our match was over, it looked like you guys 
were gone.  It was about 5 or 5:30 by the time we finished our post-game
talk.  (We all get together after the game and say what we thought, while 
it's still fresh)
	That park is pretty sleazey.  I never really realized it before, when
we played over by the carnival area.  But we were in the track Saturday.  I
drove over by where you guys were playing looking for a parking spot, but 
decided to leave my car up on the road at the top of the hill.
	Plus some guy in sweats with a real obvious erection was drooling on
the sidelines the whole time.  And little gangs of kids rocking the johns when
people went alone.  Really festive.
	Cyndy and I brought our dogs and my dog whined almost the entire time
she was staked out, even though I was only about 30-40  feet away.	
	We beat Hartford in both games.  They played us in fourty's and then
thirty's with about 2 or 3 substitutions.  Hats off to them, it was a great
second game and we had a lot less people playing twice.
	One of our coaches gave a comment at half-time of the first match that
those players had better move their butts because there were plenty of us on
the sidelines that were ready and able to step in should they be walking on 
the pitch.  I couldn't agree with that more.
	'Saw, selections will almost always be a problem at one time or another.
They are one of the reasons I took this Fall off after two years of club and
played for my college again.  A big step down in rugby, but no politics.  I'm
back playing club again, and having a great time, but I don't expect to agree
with selections.  There's always the experience versus flash issue, along
with many others.
	I mailed a check for 20 tickets to the address you gave.  It was a bit
of a debate as to whether we should go, given Fred Paoli's comments two years
(or so) ago, and the lack of funding for the women's Eagles.  But, as Fred
apparently isn't playing now and we want to show support and hopefully get
some respect/support in return, we'll be there.  It should be a good match.
	

Rachael
8.413CAM::WAYMy mother hit me harder than that!!!Mon May 06 1991 12:0866
Sorry to have missed you Rachael....

Our matches started early, because a large portion of the A side had to
go to a wedding (of one of the other guys on the team)....

As to the condition of the park, I'd much prefer to play on the field
we played on because it's softer.  However, it's a narrow field ( a forward's
field!) and so they keep us on the Rock (the field by the stupid carnival).

We played Union, and our A side did a superb job.  They won 28-15 after
being down 15-9 at one point.  In an unusual turn of events we got two drop
goals.  Hartford doesn't usually take too many of those attempts, but with
Tom Vinick at flyhalf, and Glen Judge at fullback, we did OK.

B side won big, but as usual I only saw the first half.  They held Union
to 3 points.

Before we warmed up, our C side captain asked me "Gee, can you prop today?".
I said, "But Jerry, I was selected at second row".  Well, ol' Tubbs didn't
show, so I was the tighthead.

I was pissed before the game, because Union didn't bring a 3rd side, and
they would only give us ONE stinking 30 minute half.  

I had a GREAT game, because I had a lot of learning experiences.  Early
in the game, after a maul collapsed, I inadvertantly stepped on some guy's
hand.  I knew he was pissed when he yelled "You bastard" and hit me in the
back.  I just yelled back "f*** off" and kept on going.

Well, it turns out it was their loosehead, so I learned how props retaliate,
because on the very next scrum, after the ball was won, he took his outside
arm, came up underneath and clocked me in the eye.  I was pissed (he didn't
hit me hard enough to give me a good shiner even, just a little purple
under the eye 8^( ).  By the time I'd realized what he'd done, he was away,
and I couldn't take a swing at him or risk a penalty.  

I had his number, but had no opportunity in the remaining time to retaliate,
because he was never in a good position in a ruck or maul to really get a
couple of shots in where the ref couldn't see.

After the game I was talking with Doc about it, just to get some advice.
He told me two very important things.  First, whatever you do by accident,
make like you  intended to do it.  Second, whenever ANYONE hits you, no matter
how hard, just say "My mother hit me hard than that" or "Is that all you got?"

So, I learned a lot from that.  We did win, something like 18 - 6, but I 
think those weeenies could have given us two 25 minute halves at least.
I definitely wanted another shot at that loosehead.  (btw, he scrummed well.
He owned me half the time, but the other half I did ok...)


I've found that the teams from the Met Union tend to be pretty chippy....


And finally, Coho Grennon does exist.  A tall flanker, who's moved here from
Dallas.  He plays with them next weekend in the final four.  The teams
are Washington, Dallas, OMBAC and Chicago....  Should be good.


'Saw

PS  Rachael, the girl who played 8man for Hartford is dating/married to
    one of our new wings.  Too bad you guys didn't make it over to Dagny's
    for our drinkup...  Maybe next time.

    Glad you decided to go to the match......
8.414WRFC vs BRFC - match reportCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 06 1991 14:5576
    Although Worcester was swept by Boston, we did record a moral victory
    with very good play from all three sides.
    
    It was a great day for rugby.  The pitch was in very good shape,
    although a bit on the wide side for a forward's taste.  A brisk wind
    blew from one tryzone to the other and played a significant factor all
    day.  Worcester had the wind at their backs for the first half of all
    three games, and used it fairly well.  We made some good defensive
    stands when we were looking into the wind.
    
    The first half of the A side match saw Worcester with a large
    territorial advantage thanks in part to the wind.  Set pieces were
    pretty even throughout the whole game with each team winning almost all
    of their own put-ins.  Boston played the mauling style and rolled a few
    times.  Worcester stayed with their rucking style, especially when we
    realized that Boston didn't like playing that type of game.  The score
    was very close at the half (we might have even had the edge).  Boston
    was able to use the wind to their advantage in the second half, though. 
    Despite some nice defensive stands and some pressure in the Boston
    zone, Boston put the game away in the last 5-10 minutes with a try and
    a couple of penalty kicks.  Final score was Boston 29, Worcester 16. 
    When the final whistle blew, we all thought the score was much closer
    than that.  At the post match party, the captain of Boston awarded man
    of the match to our captain on behalf of our whole squad.  He said we
    were a much improved team over the one that Boston pasted last fall.  I
    had a chance to talk to my opposing prop and we were able to comment on
    life's little ironies.  As it turns out, we both have been bounced
    around from the first to second side and we were both playing somewhat
    out of position.  He is normally a loosehead prop who was playing
    tighthead that day, and I was a tighthead playing loose.  I also found
    out that he had been in Austin a few weeks ago and played against my
    old club as a member of the Irish Wolfhounds, a bunch of Bostonians of
    Irish ancestry (more than a few are immigrants themselves) who take a
    little trip now and then.
    
    The B-game started out as a Boston rout.  It wasn't pretty at all. 
    Boston played the overload well and their strong side wing scored a
    bucket of tries.  Worcester regrouped in the second half, but the
    damage had already been done.  Boston's second side captain even
    commented after the match that the second half showed a completely
    different Worcester team and complemented us on never giving up.  Final
    score was something like Boston 36, Worcester 0.
    
    Then came the C-side match.  This really put the finishing touches on
    the respect we had earned from Boston that day.  We brought 31 players
    on Saturday and played 2 40-minute half matches, and 1 30-minute half
    match.  Apparently Boston's third side have been stiffed on more than
    one occasion this season.  When we trotted out 14 out of 15 players who
    had already played a full match and agreed to 30 minute halves, they
    were impressed.  The Boston side was a mix of their old boys and some
    new talent.  I ended up "volunteering" for the C-side and played the
    whole game against a living legend.  Stingray used to be one of the
    best loosehead props playing on the East Coast.  He is semi-retired
    from the game and said he doesn't practice as much as he should/would
    like to.  He is normally a loosehead, but was playing tighthead on
    Saturday.  I definitely had my hands full.  Boston dominated in the
    lineouts, but the scrums were about even.  The game was a bit slower
    paced than the previous two (not surprising given who was on the
    field).  Boston again came out on top, this time by a score of 18-0.
    
    I haven't been this sore after a match in a loooong time.
    
    The play was alot less chippier than I expected based on past
    encounters with Boston.  Their forwards weren't as dominant as I
    expected either.  They were alot more sociable than I remember as well. 
    Talking with a few of them after the match, they did say they were in a
    bit of a transition.  Alot of their star players are getting long in
    the tooth.  It has been a frustrating spring season for them as well as
    they feel they haven't been getting quality competition, and like I
    said earlier they have been getting stiffed by teams who wouldn't
    supply a third match.  As a result, some of their players are getting
    discouraged and not showing up.
    
    All in all, a very good day for the WRFC.  If we can build on this and
    a solid performance against Malvern next weekend, we should do well in
    the New England Tournament.
8.415CAM::WAYMy mother hit me harder than that!!!Mon May 06 1991 15:3518
Sounds like you guys had quite a day against Bahston.

It's good to hear that they are in transition.  Spring season is so funny
in New England, but they are one of the three teams I'd see us having to
work REAL hard against to win the New England tournament.  The other two
are Beacon Hill (at least Swords won't be there) and Mystic River.

I have a feeling Mac, that all of this Division I play is going to put
you into a nice position going into the Tournament.  I'm sure that the focus
of your season has been the same as ours -- Winning the New England tournament.

Who do you see as your toughest obstacle in Division II???


'Saw


PS  Any word on who won the College final four?  Did Air Force repeat?
8.416CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 06 1991 15:5822
8.417CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 06 1991 16:004
    Speaking of tournaments, is Hartford going to the Connecticut Cup
    Tournament in Stanford, CT on June 1?  Worcester has entered a team. 
    That will be our last real match of the season.  Our annual game
    against the WRFC alumni will be held the following week.
8.418CAM::WAYMy mother hit me harder than that!!!Mon May 06 1991 18:0218
Yep, the Wanderers will be there.

For some reason, that "match" is always referred to with many snickers when
it comes up.  

I know last spring the team actually lost it, so they're not taking it
"unseriously", but I know that the NE tourney is much more important.


We have that, then a hiatus until July 6,7 for the Mad River tournament.
Things pick up against August 24 for Monmouth, NJ.


My last match is probably this weekend, barring any massive injuries to
three or more props 8^)


'Saw
8.419Best of the US Under-23s to play in Boston in JuneCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 06 1991 18:3916
    There's some good rugby coming to the Boston area in June.
    
    The Collegiate/Under 23 Territorial Championships will be held at Daly
    Field in Brighton, MA on June 15-16.  This pits the Collegiate/U-23 All
    Star teams from the Pacific Coast, West, Mid West, and East against
    each other.
    
    The following weekend, June 22, the US Collegiate/U-23 side will face
    the Canadien Under-23s again at Daly Park.
    
    I believe admission is free for both events, but don't quote me on
    that.
    
    I'm personally looking forward to the matches since one of my teammates
    from Austin will be playing for the West and is in the pool of players
    to be selected to play Canada.
8.420Think about the wordingLEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 06 1991 19:3313
    'Saw,
    	In my constant striving to address accidental sexism...
    
    what is the implication of "My mother hit me harder than that!!!"
    
    Perhaps something about women being weak?         
    
    Maybe substituting someone who is clearly weak, rather then the whole
    gender, might do the trick.  Our team has at least three mothers, (it's
    hard to keep track), and I don't think many people would want to be hit
    by any of them.
    
    Rachael
8.421Is rugby about cold-blooded murder?ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSYMandingoMon May 06 1991 19:346
    Saw on TV where a rugby player, in a fit of anger, killed a_opposing
    player on the field.  Pretty classy sport, this rugby.  Was this
    game held in the midlantic states, or will he be prosecuted for 
    murder?
    
    MrT
8.422CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 06 1991 19:4016
8.423CAM::WAYMy mother hit me harder than that!!!Mon May 06 1991 19:4327
Rachael --

No disrepect intended.  It's just the way I heard the quote.  You probaly
have to admit that if you're a guy on the pitch who's just been slugged, 
that using that statement on the other player will probably get the point
across in a men's game.

If you wanna get really technical, the BEST comeback I heard yesterday was not
one I printed the first time, but it IS a Wanderer classic.

After the rugger hits you, you say "Geez, I've sh*t things out harder than
that...."


As to MrT, I haven't seen anything about that in Rugby magazine.  Was this
recent?  There was a case a while back (in the Met Union - correct me if I'm
wrong, Mac) where one guy kick another guy in the face, and there's a
big suit going on over it.


Personally, I feel its like anything else.  People can lose their cool
and get in fights and stuff.  But, from what I've seen, and from stories
I've heard, those incident are few and far between.  Rugby is pretty much
cleaning up its act, and for that I'm really glad.....


'Saw
8.424CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 06 1991 19:4510
8.425LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 06 1991 20:5212
    No disrespect taken.  I just wanted to point out that if you mentioned 
    something like that in a forum of women (especially players)  who
    didn't know that you respected women as athletes etc etc it might be
    taken wrong.
    
    As far as the violence  goes, rugby is like any other part of society;
    there are some as**les.  Some worse then others.  But whenever anyone
    asks me about fighting, my response if "why bother? We get to hit each
    other as hard as we want anyways."  I've found it to be significantly
    cleaner then the "no-hitting" hockey I played in college.
    
    Rachael
8.426NAC::G_WAUGAMANMon May 06 1991 21:2116
    
    > In my constant striving to address accidental sexism...
    > what is the implication of "My mother hit me harder than that!!!"
    > Perhaps something about women being weak?         
    
    Actually, I think it might have something to do with most people's
    image of their mother as a kind, gentle person rather than a brutish 
    230-pound rugby player like the 'Saw, even if in fact Mom did hit 
    rather hard (as I recall, she did).  Now somebody else's mom, that 
    might be different, but never *my* mom, especially so close to 
    Mother's Day, ya know?  
    
    ;-)
    
    glenn
      
8.427BDWISR::WASKOMTue May 07 1991 11:3420
    MrT -
    
    Like the others, I would ask for more facts.
    
    Shall we brand basketball as being about "cold blooded murder" after 
    the Hank Gathers incident?  (I think even with all the discussion about
    it in here, none of us believe a murder prosecution is appropriate.) 
    Shall we brand hockey as being about "cold blooded murder" after a high
    school player dies after being hit with a puck?  I doubt if there is a
    contact sport which has not had at least one death on the playing
    field, for whatever fluke of cause.
    
    Rugby really isn't about fighting, in spite of its reputation.  I'd be
    interested in a study, but I'd be willing to bet that there are *fewer*
    injuries than in football, which is the closest analog sport that I
    know.  That's because the rules and tradition are about being able to
    play a full hour-and-a-half, with the rule emphasis being on reducing
    injury-inducing situations.
    
    A&W
8.428CAM::WAYMy mother hit me harder than that!!!Tue May 07 1991 11:3748
re the broad brush:

	I agree Mac.  You can't make a generalization about anything from
	one incident.

	Rugby has gotten a bad rap in light of a lot of antics over the years.
	Yes, it is a rough sport, but you never see the kind of brawls that
	occur so frequently in hockey.  In fact I'd bet all of baseball
	last year had more bench-clearing moments than rugby did.

	Like Mac said, there have been incidents.  But more prevalent
	than people being severly injured from those incidents, are cases
	where people are legitimately hurt from the game itself.  Rules
	have been added to the Laws in those cases to make it safer.

	(ie the law about willfully collapsing a scrum was added because
	 you can do severe damage to a prop or hooker's neck in that situation)


	For the most part, it can be a very clean game.  I watched the Eagles
	Japan last night from Chicago, on NESN.  The game was really clean,
	I thought.  Eagles won, btw, 27-15.

re fighting:

	Rachael, you have a point.  I've always been a very clean player
	in any sport, and couple that with my father's Scottish temper
	(LONG, LONG fuse, but a big bomb) and I can't usually get mad
	enough during a game to get really worked up.

	However, if someone cheap shots me, I will figure out a way to
	return the favor without getting caught 8^)


re Mom:

	Mom always had this "stinging slap", Dad always had the "heavy hand".
	I don't know which was worse.  In the case on Saturday, I know my
	Mom DID  hit me harder than that 8^).....

	When I told my Mom about it, she laughed, and thought it was pretty
	funny.

	And hey, believe me, I had some friends who had Mom's that could have
	hit like Mike Tyson -- geez, their voices were lower too -- and
	I'd have rather gotten hit by anybody else than their Moms.....8^)

'Saw
8.429ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSYStars: Miracle on 24th Ave.Tue May 07 1991 13:4326
    So who made a broad brush generalization?  Not me.  If you'll go back
    and look you'll see that I only axed a question.
    
    I didn't clip the thing outta the paper, but another guy here in the
    office also saw it and sez that it happened in England (figures).  The
    two had a fight, it stopped, and the guy went back over to the other
    and, as my bud remembers, snapped his neck.
    
    I have nothing against rugby.  Although, quite a_impression was made
    at a_off campus party in college where the Ohio State rugby team showed
    up (they were visiting IU's club) and this one guy stands up in the
    middle of the living room in front of 50 people and peed.  His ass was
    kicked before he finished.  The Buckeyes lost the ensuing fight, but won
    the match the following day...
    
    Actually, having lived in Denver I got to know a lotta rugby players,
    for some reason there seems to be a lotta rugby in that town.
    
    re: Gaithers
    
    No, nobody should have been tried for murder.  However, JugHaid shoulda
    been suspended by the NCAA for life, Payola MoneyCount U. for a few 
    years, and Gaithers' family deserves millions in damage for the utter
    irresponsiblity and negligience exhibited by that squalid operation.
    
    MrT                                                                 
8.430on neck injuriesLEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue May 07 1991 16:0810
    	I can't quote a study, but I'm under the impression that rugby has
    significantly less catastropic (paralysis) neck injuries then football,
    probably because you're not wearing a helmet and pads and suffering
    under the delusion that you're impervious to harm.  It only took one
    head-tackle to convince me that I didn't want to hit people with my
    head; it hurt me too much and was very ineffective.
    	I think a lot of the safety in rugby comes from the fact that
    unsafe play is generally very ineffective.
    
    Rachael
8.431CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 16:357
8.432CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 16:529
    I believe a report on rugby injuries has been prepared.  The
    information gathered is small and fairly recent when compared to
    football because rugby never really had the infrastructure in place to
    gather that kind of data.  From what I remember they did find the
    highest incidences of major injuries in rugby were shoulder and knee
    injuries, but on a per player basis, they were lower than that in
    football (although the shoulder injuries were close).  Rachael did a
    good job explaining about the lower incidences of catastrophic
    injuries.
8.433CAM::WAYNow I'm a man, way past 21Tue May 07 1991 16:5924
As to the college rugby behavior, I believe a lot of that is on a downward
trend these days.  True, there are incidents, and occasionally you'll read
a notice in Rugby about not scheduling matches with such and such a club
or such and such a school.

When I think back to the Wanderers tour to the Bahamas, while we had a ton
of fun, we didn't do anything really radically bad (ie even close to bad
enough to get arrested for let's say....)


MrT, Denver is a big rugby town.  The reigning National Champs (reigning
until this weekend however) are the Denver Barbarians, and invariably
one or two of the Eagles is from the Colorado area...

This weekend, a new National Champ will be crowned, because the final four
is   Dallas, Washington, OMBAC, and Chicago Blaze.  Denver can't repeat.
One of our new players Coho Grennon was a flanker for Dallas until he
moved this past week.  With him returning to play for his former club this
week, I suppose I should be rooting for Dallas.

Does anyone know who took the College final four this past weekend???


'Saw
8.434NERFU Div. II InfoCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 17:0317
    I saw the pairings for the New England Tournament.  I didn't pay much
    attention to Division I since I'll be playing in Division II.
    
    Worcester is the 3rd seed (out of 8).  Amoskeag and Springfield were 1
    and 2 respectively.  This reflects the order of finish from the fall
    season.  What surprised me was that Amoskeag will be competing in Div.
    II, and Old Gold will be competing in Div. I, even though they swapped
    divisions after the fall season.
    
    I also noticed that Burlington (VT) RFC is in the tournament this year
    and they are included in the league schedule for next fall.  This is
    the first time Burlington has been in the NERFU league since I can
    remember.
    
    Seacoast is in the league schedule for the fall but isn't entered in
    the tournament.  Newport is in the tournament, but isn't on the fall
    league schedule.  I wonder what's going on.
8.435Big upset in the WestCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 17:075
8.436CAM::WAYNow I'm a man, way past 21Tue May 07 1991 17:1228
You're not the only one who got screwed by the Old Gold/Amoskeag swap.

It seems that our fall schedule should have been four home, and two away,
with Old Gold coming to Hartford.  However, when Amoskeag came in, they
didn't absorb Old Gold's schedule for Home/Away games, so Hartford got
screwed and for the second year in a row we've got three home, four away.

They are:

	 9/14	Charles River  H
	 9/21   New Haven      A
	 9/28   Amoskeag       A
	10/5	Beacon Hill    H
	10/12	Boston	       H
	10/19   Providence     A
	10/26   Mystic River   A

With two more games after Mystic River (Albany and Worcester)  we're away
the last four weeks of the season.

That sucks 8^)

Gonna be a tough fall, but we're looking to knock off Mystic River, and
be New England League Champs, and win the Northeast Tournament.  Some goal,
eh?


'Saw
8.437CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 17:4413
8.438CAM::WAYNow I'm a man, way past 21Tue May 07 1991 18:157
All the schedules I've seen have Worcester vs Hartford IN Worcester
on November 9 (me loving Mother's birthday)....

We have White Plains and Manhattan at home early in the season....


'Saw
8.439CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 18:4112
    I just spoke with an ex-WRFCer who is now living in Stow, VT.  He gave
    me the lowdown on why Burlington decided to finally join NERFU.  It
    seems in the past year they defeated Amoskeag twice and Albany once. 
    Albany is the perrenial Upstate NY RFU Div. I champ and Amoskeag won
    the whole shootin' match for USA Rugby East Div. II, so they figure
    they have a very good shot at kicking some butt in the regular league. 
    He said they've got a couple of monsters in the 2nd row -- one is 6'5",
    the other 6'8".
    
    Thanks for the info on the next HRFC/WRFC match, 'Saw.  I'll pass it
    on.  He may not have written it down on the particular piece of paper
    that I saw.
8.440From a former football lineman...LEAF::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is walking!!Tue May 07 1991 19:1813
re .430, neck injuries from football

Way back when I was a kid playing football, the feeling of infalability came from
the coaching staff.  They would teach players (especially linemen) to "put your 
head in the numbers" when you hit, and insist that if yo did it right, you would
never get injured.  I don't know enough about the neck injuries from football 
to tell you if they were all from this.

I assume that rugby players are taught to make initial contact with their 
shoulders, and to use their arms to tackle.  I would think this would be why 
shoulder injuries are most prevalant.

=Bob=
8.4417221::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Tue May 07 1991 19:3437
    Football helmets do to football players what face shields do to hockey
    players - make them feel invincible.
    
    The tackling technique used before football helmets was to hit with the
    shoulder and wrap your arms around the player being tackled.  The
    technique being taught now is to hit with your head face up (not with
    the top of the helmet) and slide contact to your shoulder.  You can see
    why that technique would be impossible without a face mask.
    
    Where players get in trouble is to lead with the top of the head rather
    than with the face.  Sooner or later, if you have your head down,
    you'll break your neck.  Most injuries come that way, rather than
    through whiplash.  Diving head first into a player who's on the ground
    constitutes spearing.  Young players have the same problem with this
    technique as they do with throwing a curve ball.  They can do it but
    they don't have the discipline to do it right.  It can be argued that a
    young player can throw a curveball provided he throws it straight
    overhand because that's the same motion as throwing a football.  Young
    baseball players don't have the discipline to keep doing that, they
    come to a 3/4 overhand motion, start throwing sliders and blow out
    their elbows.  Proper tackling technique for young football players
    should be to lead with the shoulder and not with the head because they
    don't have the discipline to tackle with their heads up, and their
    necks aren't strong enough to handle the stress of tackling with their
    heads down.
    
    In case you're wondering why players are taught to tackle with their
    heads, it's because the helmet delivers a hell of a blow, more
    punishing than a blow with a shoulder pad.
    
    In case you're wondering why a face shield makes hockey players feel
    invincible, it's because they don't have to worry about being cut with
    a stick.  This in turn leads to players carrying their sticks higher
    which leads to more dirty stick work, since players don't appreciate
    the damage a stick can do.
    
    John
8.442CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 07 1991 19:4125
8.443Learn a lot walking the sidelines :-)OZARDZ::WASKOMTue May 07 1991 20:5029
    I was discussing the teaching of tackling techniques with a delightful
    gentleman from Ireland at the last Hartford game I attended.  (John,
    'Saw.  He even demonstrated, with me as the tackling dummy.)  He was
    explaining that kids as young as 6 play rugby in the UK (surprised me). 
    At that age, they don't have scrums - too much chance of injury - but
    they do tackle.
    
    All tackling is taught to come in *at the waist or below*.  If it is
    above the waist in those age groups, it will be whistled up as
    dangerous play.  Also, all tackling is taught as wrapping your arms
    around the guy primarily, with body contact a natural follow-on of
    "hugging" someone as tightly as possible.  Tends to bring you in to the
    tacklee's side, with an effort to turn and pull down the tacklee,
    rather than crunch him backwards, as gridiron footballers do when
    blocking on the line.  
    
    John is amazed at how high we tackle in the US (aiming for mid-chest,
    usually), how straight-on we tackle, and how much we seem to want to
    use the body, rather than the arms.  I'm convinced it is a result of
    having to unlearn habits learned from a lifetime of watching gridiron 
    football.
    
    Oh yeah.  Instead of scrums at the junior levels, they use the two
    props and a hooker, with standard binding rules.  So prop is a *very*
    specialized position that you start learning very young, without having
    the "motor power" of the pack behind you, which is what leads to the
    most serious rugby injuries, apparently.
    
    A&W
8.444LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed May 08 1991 10:3413
	Lots of interesting stuff on tackling.  Just for reference, I've never
heard a rugby player told to aim for the middle of the chest.  That doesn't
mean we don't hit there, but most experienced players I know are aiming for the
bottom shorts line.
	I never learned how to tackle properly in college, I only got it once
I started playing club.  Once I learned how to do it properly, it was much
more comfortable.  I absolutely love to tackle, especially open field.
	We will occaisionally opt for more of a smother tackle if the 
opponent has an overload close to our end.  That way, we can keep the ball
tied up until help arrives.

Rachael

8.445CAM::WAYNow I'm a man, way past 21Wed May 08 1991 11:4626
I've been told that one of the advantages I have learning rugby (albeit
somewhat late) is that I don't have any bad football habits to unlearn.

By Law (26 I think) a tackle in rugby MUST include the arm wrap.  You cannot
"stick" a guy with your shoulder.

Also, I think that one of the reasons why we tend to tackle so high is the
emphasis that's placed on turning the ball carrier.  I know on HWRFC, we're
told more often that if we get a guy alone, stand him, turn him, and let
the support strip him.  Once in a while, we get told, tackle low.

Americans do tackle very hard.  We have two guys on our team that whenever
they tackle, it sounds like a football hit, pads and all.  Tom Vinick and
Danny O'Brien hit SO damn hard.  Vin has had that reputation even as an
Eagle. Kevin Sarr was no slouch either, as the first Worcester guy to
handle the ball in our C side match can attest to....

Deferring to Mac's experience and expertise, (ie if I'm wrong he can correct
me) by the danger in the front row comes from the neck position.  Your head
tends to naturally want to go down "hyperextending" the neck forward.  As
a prop, you're taught to get your butt DOWN, arch your back and push your
head BACK.  A collapsed scrum will tend to pull your head forward, screwing
your neck up....


'Saw
8.446LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed May 08 1991 12:117
	I think most injuries occur in the front row when there's a wheel,
and the prop tries to oppose the wheel with his or her head.

	'Saw, I'm surprised you guys would try to hold the player up and turn
them as a general rule of play, unless they had support and you didn't.  

Rachael
8.447CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Wed May 08 1991 14:1317
re holding and turning:

	We do it with regularity and success.  We have some players who
	have good upper body strength and who can do it almost all the
	time.

	Personally, I've done it a few times, mostly with backs, never
	with a prop.  I just lean back and turn 'em. 8^)

	I guess the hallmarks of the Wanderers are our fitness and our
	pack.  Don't get me wrong, we've got some superb backs, but
	on the whole we scrum really well, and support like there's no
	tomorrow.....

	Our PACK test is this weekend against Old Blue, however!

'Saw
8.448CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Thu May 09 1991 14:2712
Is everyone set on tickets?

I have to turn in my unused tickets this evening along with a check.
From here on out the only way you can get tickets is at the door.

btw, the gate opens that day at 1pm....

Hawk, A&W, John.... my folks are planning on coming to the NE tournament
and probably doing the picnic thang.  If you're interested I could probably
get you all together.... lemme know....

'Saw
8.449OZARDZ::WASKOMThu May 09 1991 20:289
    I'm planning on coming down and doing the whole tournament :-)  [I'm
    going to *try* and make Hartford's first game.  We'll see if I can
    actually manage to get out of bed while it's still dark....]
    
    To the best of my knowledge, JHendry will be coming down relatively
    close to game time.  I'll be scouting out a meeting location on
    Saturday :-)  but a pic-a-nic thing sounds like a great idea to me.
    
    A&W
8.450CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Fri May 10 1991 11:4652
HA!  Wait till you hear MY schedule that day!

Last night, after practice, we had some good news and some bad news.
The good news was that (check this out!) we get to practice next 
Thursday, against/with the Eagles!  I've got a woodie that won't go down!
I am SO PSYCHED.

Our goal, stated last night, is to push their scrum BACK.  And I'll bet we
can do it, too!  8^)


The bad news (and it ain't really bad) was the assignments for that weekend.

On Friday night, most of us will be able to go to the Wanderers 25th
Anniversary bash.  But I'll have to leave on the early side of midnight,
because at 0630 on Saturday morning, yours truly, along with 11 other
stalwarts, will be lining/preparing fields for the NERFU tournament.

At about the same time as the Wanderers match starts (0830), we 12 will
be reporting to Dillon Stadium to line/prepare that field.

After that I might have some free time to get lunch.

The gates open for the Scotland game at 1300.  From that point, until
the end of the game, I'll be doing fixed security.  (I'm not on the
roving security team, I'll have a fixed post).  It must be more than
coincidence that the 15 guys on fixed security just happen to be
forwards 8^)

Hawk, you perverted lush, if you sit in my section, don't give me
ANY problems, or I'll bounce ya!  8^) 8^) 8^)

At the end of the match, I'm one of the 25 guys who are on  stadium
clean up detail.

After that, I'm done for the weekend, but the Wanderers weekend really
won't end until our party (with the Scotland team) on Sunday evening. 

On Saturday evening there will be TWO parties...one at Boppers, and
one at Dagny's.  Don't know which I'll attend, but we've been told
not to drink to much, and to be "responsible" at those parties....


Mac, Rachael, you'll be happy to know (if you don't already) that there
are I believe, locker room facilities available.


Our overall goal, and it's a mighty one, is to pull off this Scotland
deal AND win the NE championship.  It would certainly be the perfect
cap to our spring season.....

'Saw
8.451LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Fri May 10 1991 13:3613
	Well, 'Saw, we're about as excited as you are about Saturday morning.
Seeing as we ususally aim to arrive at the field 2 hours prior to game time,
and OUR FIRST GAME IS AT 8:30!!!! we should be meeting you there at 6:30.
	Can you get me one more ticket?  Send me mail as to how we can arrange
it.  Thanks.
	I have to be on the pitch tomorrow at 8:30 (I live an hour away) to
line the field.  Turns out we have a B game after all, and I might get to 
play a third position in as many weeks.  (From flanker to #8 to back line)
And if you want to be picky, 4 positions, as I had to switch which flanker
I was two weekends ago.  A slight but noticable difference.
	Good luck this weekend to everyone.

Rachael
8.452LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 13 1991 10:4523
	I found out what we're doing for Regionals.  We're in a bracket with
Concord and Merrimack, and Boston is with Hartford.  (That's it for women's
clubs in NE)  We have games at 8:30 and either 10:30 or 11:30 (I forget)
and the finals against the winner of the other bracket are at 12:30 or 1:30
(I also forget).  Apparently it was part of the bid to host Regionals that
the women's finals be between the old boy finals and the men's finals, but
Hartford didn't implement that.  NERFU offered to enforce that aspect of their
contract for us, but by that time we had already made our hotel reservations
and other plans, and it was too late. 
	'Saw, any word on why this happened?  I think  having three games, the
third being the finals, before 2pm at Regionals is pretty ridiculous.  What 
was the guy who did this thinking?
	Interestingly enough, we played Concord and Merrimack this weekend,
and Boston played Hartford.  Our first game was a little sloppy, but was used
to try out some new plays and techniques that we intend to use in Nationals.
I have no idea what the score was, something like 32-0.  The second game was
a little less sloppy, and little more conservative.  I don't remember the
score there either, it was something like 12-0.
	We try to play each game like our opponent is the SheHawks, our first
opponent in Nationals.  They will be very tough, they placed second last 
year and first the year before.

Rachael
8.453CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 11:1352
Sorry Rachael, I don't have any answers for you.

I barely saw the pairings once, so I didn't even know who the women's 
teams were.  It'd be my guess that it was someone from NERFU and NOT
from the Wanderers.


This weekend kind of sucked.  Old Blue only brought two sides, and at such
short notice, Hartford couldn't come up with a 3rd game for us, so C side
got stiffed.

We've never beaten Old Blue and the tradition continued.  Their A side
beat ours 16-3.  In the first half, we were outrucking them big time.
True to form for a Met Union team, their play was characterized by a lot
of chippiness.  Early on, one of their locks decided it would be a good
idea to apply the boot to all the Hartford guys who made tackles.  

We were able to get the word in as to who was doing it, and late in the 
first half he got payed back.  He made the mistake of fringing, and he
paid for it with a vicious (like homicidal) tackle from Brian Shell.  

In the second half, they got us way off our game, and put it to us with
two tries, and that was that.

However, in probably the best display of defensive rugby I've ever seen,
Hartford held them off in a LONG goal line stand.  There were probably
6 straight 5 meter scrums awarded to Old Blue, and they tried numerous
back row plays to get it over.  Our 8man and flankers were superb, and
Tom Vinick at fly half was hitting people just like he was still on the
Eagles.  When Old Blue couldn't put it over that way, they tried spinning
it out to their backs.  That didn't work either.


Our B side, however, completed an undefeated season, thoroughly trashing
Old Blue, with brutal rucking, and blinding speed from the backs.
I don't know the score, but it was a thrashing.


At this point, my season is pretty much over.  I'm not on the selection
panel for the NE Tournament, but I might be for the Connecticut Cup
on June 1.  The plan for that is to send the B side, so logically speaking,
one would assume the reserves would be from C side.

There's still practice for this weekend, and the Eagles practice on 
Thursday.  Week after next, we have a 7s tournament in place of practice,
where the team is broken down into squads of 7s teams, and we do up the
whole nine yards.

At this point, the personal fitness plan goes into effect.  Hopefully,
I'll be a lot lighter, and a lot fitter, come fall.....

'Saw
8.454LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 13 1991 11:3320
	'Saw, too bad about the A-game.  At least your rucking went well,
and you made their player remember you.
	The tournament scheduling was Hartford, not NERFU.  When Hartford
placed their bid, one of their obligations was to schedule the women's 
finals as I said, on Sunday.  NERFU is involved only in that they accepted
Hartford's bid, and offered to force Hartford to keep to their contract.
But, like I said, it was too late for us.  So, any information that you 
might hear on the rational behind that decision would be appreciated.
	My season might be over, too.  I'm not sure what the team will do
for Regionals.  With 25 minute halves, we could play the same side three
times if we really wanted to.  I hope to get a game, but it depends on what
the team is trying to do in preparation for Nationals.  They might want to
give all the time to the A-side players, to get them ready for the test.
	Summer rugby is a lot of fun, though, and I already know two road
races I want to run.
	'Saw, any luck on a ticket for Kevin?

Thanks,

Rachael
8.455CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 11:4323
Oh, OK, I didn't know that Hartford did the scheduling.  

Well, I'll keep my ears open.  One speculation (and it's totally that at
this point) would be that we might have had a problem with fields.

I believe, again not positive, that the City of Hartford has given us
four fields on Saturday.  That's a pretty major accomplishment, because
softball season is upon us, and 90% of the park is taken up with that.
So, for Hartford to conceed four fields to us is going a long way.

However, I'd heard that on Sunday, ONLY one field was available to us,
The Rock, the field we usually play on.  

It could very well be that because of the field situation, and with the
women's bracket being small, that the scheduling decisions were made on
that basis.

If I hear anything though, I'll let you know.

Still trying to work on that ticket, but I can't promise anything....


'Saw
8.456Worcester defeats MalvernCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 13 1991 13:4310
    Worcester played Malvern on Saturday.  Malvern is an English team
    finishing up a 2 week tour of New England.  I'm sure the tour and the
    heat took their toll on the visiting club, but Worcester did play very
    well and earned a 22-3 (or something like that) victory.
    
    We weren't able to find a B match for the weekend, but Malvern scraped
    up some guys from their reserves, a couple from the first game, some
    extra Worcester players, and a couple of guys from WPI to take on our
    Bs in an abbreviated match (20 minute halves).  Worcester made it a
    clean sweep with an 8-4 win.
8.457CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 13:5313
Congrats, Mac --

Seems like you guys are well on your way for the NE Tournament.

Saturday was a hot day.  I spent a lot of time after each try for the B side
dispensing water on the sideline.

This week is gonna be busy.  I've got a ton of things to do, and between
work, home, rugby (Wanderers) and rugby (Scotland game) I'm gonna be ragged
by the end of the week.  I KNOW I'm gonna enjoy that little Sunday night
party with the Scots....

'Saw
8.458LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 13 1991 14:1312
Mac, that sounds like a great game.  I think the MIT guys went to watch, but
I'm not sure.  It was good you got a second match, too.  I know from loads of
experience that anything at all, even a half, is better than no game.

'Saw, not to nitpick but because I'm genuinely curious, were you guys giving
your players water after each try?  Isn't that illegal?

It sounds like field availability was the reason for the scheduling snafu, but
I still think they should have squeezed some match other then the women's 
finals.  As it is, I wonder if we'll even make the Eagle's match on time.

Rachael
8.459CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 13 1991 14:247
8.460CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 14:3417
It probably is illegal, I don't know (am not totally up on all the laws) 8^)

But, I do know that they can't come OFF the pitch.

And it was viciously hot on Saturday, well close to 80 if not over anyway.

And finally, the ref has to be watching the conversion kick, so he may
not have seen it (but then again....)


As to the schedule, like I said, I don't know who was responsible for that.
I'll see what I can find out.....

'Saw



8.461LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 13 1991 14:5111
	Mac, I thought it was like you said, water to be given only upon
the ref's discretion.  I never like it when people drink otherwise in the
match, it seems unfair to me the same way steroids would be.  I guess if
both teams do it that doesn't really matter, but it seems "unprofessional"
to me.  I feel like playing 40's (or whatever halves) without the sideline
services of football, etc., is one of the things that makes the game tough
and I'm proud of it.  I think drinking for safety is important, and the 
ref should see to that.  But I don't like drinking for comfort.  It seems to
make up for a lack of fitness.

Rachael
8.462CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 15:0321
Well, since it only really happens when it's wicked hot like Saturday,
I think it'd come under the heading of water for safety.

If it's not hot, the only time I can remember anyone asking for water
was to rinse out a mouthpiece.

Oh yeah, one time in a mud bowl game (last fall's Mystic River match
I think) we kept getting water to rinse our eyes out.  Must've been hell
on the guys who wear contacts....

As to water making up for fitness, I disagree with you there, because
I can drink all the water on the sidelines, and it still isn't gonna
help me get around any better.  And I don't feel the need for water
in the game unless it's REALLY hot (ie around 80 or over)...

And, if I'm not mistaken, their team was giving out water at lineouts
when the ball was away.  We just waited for after tries, if anyone
asked for it...

anyway,
'Saw
8.463OZARDZ::WASKOMMon May 13 1991 15:1916
    Both sides were getting water at all stoppages in play, on request. 
    Given that the temps were in the 85 degree range, it seemed reasonable
    to me.  The ref didn't have great control of the game anyway, but I'm
    sure he was aware of it and issued no warnings or anything.  I've seen
    it a lot on hot/humid days, and seems like a sensible safety precaution
    to me.  I deliberately dehydrate on the sidelines, as there aren't any
    facilities 'til one gets to the drink-up.  This week, I'm still working
    on re-hydrating today -- usually the drink-up takes care of it.
    
    As a spectator, the biggest problem was the Old Blue's idiot coach. 
    One of those folks who believes he can ref from the sidelines better
    than the ref can on the field, and lets the whole world know about it
    constantly and loudly.  I wound up over on the far side of the field,
    just so I wouldn't clobber the guy.
    
    A&W
8.464and we had to walk to the pitch, uphill, both ways ;^)CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 13 1991 15:523
8.465CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 16:0623
And lemme guess:

	Your boots were old shoe boxes taped to your feet with nails thru
		the bottom

	The ball was somebody's dead woodchuck wrapped with adhesive tape

	Supper was milk and bread soup

	The ref had a glass eye

	
Am I getting the picture????  8^)

Honestly, I don't see how you did it down in Texas, unless maybe you just
acclimatized or something.  (If you tell me it was a dry heat, I'll bop ya
one ;^) ;^) )

By August, I won't have a problem with this heat, provided I get water
occasionally.  As many folks are aware of, I sweat like a pig, and I
have to replace that liquid as much as possible during the hot times....

'Saw
8.466CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 16:0812
Here's a new feature of the rugby note.

It's called Frank's Fitness Forum.  Actually, that's a fancy name for a way
of keeping me honest this summer.  Since I've *got* to work out, I figure
if I report it in here, then it'll keep me honest.

Today went out to run 3.5 miles.  Did 3.0 ok, then started cramping in the
calves.  Walked/ran the last half.

Start lifting in a week or two....

'Saw
8.467LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Mon May 13 1991 16:3315
	I'm just a harda*s about water, I guess.  I'm sure most people would
disagree with me. 
	Alison, no facilities is the situation for so many of the fields I've
played and practiced on since I started playing club, I've learned to be much
more flexible.  But it took a long time, and if I had a choice, I'd do like
you did and just wait.  This weekend was the worst, we were on the Esplanade
and there's nowhere that's not in pretty plain sight.  You just had to choose
somewhere that's in plain sight of people who aren't looking. Not that they 
can really see anything anyways, it's just obvious what you're doing.  
	'Saw, I'll be checking the fitness forum and trying to match.  I
really need to work out this summer, I've lost a lot of upper body strength
the last year.  Something about being a newlywed.  I also ran 3.5 today, 
but I won't be lifting until after Nationals.

Rachael
8.468CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 17:0014
Well, I understand about water, because I sweat a lot.  Always have, ever
since I was little.  

One mistake I'm not gonna make this fall is not having a banana or two
with breakfast on game day.  Those suckers are great for preventing cramping.

Hopefully, there will be some port-o-cans at the field this weekend.

And worst case, there are some places with bushes that offer some degree
of privacy.....

8^)

'Saw
8.469CARROL::LEFEBVREIs DOCillogic treatable?Mon May 13 1991 17:075
    I'll vouch for Saw being a sweat factory.  You shoulda seen him at
    Tigermania lasted year.  Hail, Slasher was offended sitting next to
    him.
    
    Mark.
8.470CAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Mon May 13 1991 17:102
Yeah, but you guys woulda loved it if I'd been sweating like that
in a gladiator movie 8^) 8^) 8^)
8.471Drink WATER, and lots of it...LEAF::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is walking!!Mon May 13 1991 17:338
Seriously folks...

It is vitally important NOT to deprive yourselves of water when exercising.  
Even if you do not feel "hot" or "dry", your body uses so much water that you 
can easily dehidrate.  It is important to drink before, during and after any
workout, game, etc., especially during warm weather

=Bob=
8.472LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Tue May 14 1991 10:5725
	I did a sanity check last night at home about the water.  The old
other half agreed with me, which surprised me, because she gets a lot more
thirsty then I do while exercising, always needs water at practice, etc.
	We both feel that if you're fit, you should be able to make do with
the water breaks given by the ref.  And if someone is really feeling sick,
they should take a minute and they can be given water at that time.  Most
times I've played when it's really hot (and I didn't think it was that hot
Saturday), the ref has allowed water to all players when somebody's taking
a minute.  The frequency of the water breaks should be discussed in the
captain's meeting prior to the game.
	If we're going to a tourney that we know will be hot, we drink a lot
the day(s) before, before the game, and after.  But it's not a 10K, where
you're running by the water station, and it's not football where you get a 
break every 45 seconds and there's gatoraide and oxygen on the sidelines.
	I think one of the most exciting things about rugby is it shows you
that your body can do and take a lot more then you're led to believe.  Humans
are so much tougher then most people think.  Especially women, as many women
I've met think they wouldn't live through a match.  We do not need to be as
pampered as modern society has made us.  (Granted, we live longer these days,
but what you do for eighty minutes every Saturday is not going to have a big
hit on that)  A big part of why this is so is that you go out, for however long
halves you're playing, and you run and hit hard with very few breaks the entire
time, no substitutions and no time-outs.  And no water breaks.

Rachael
8.473An article from Sunday's Hartford CourantCAM::WAYThe National Inbreeding Finals -- Sign up NOW!Tue May 14 1991 11:4082
FURNISS' LOVE FOR RUGBY FOUNDED THE HARTFORD WANDERERS
------------------------------------------------------

BY Jerry Trecker

(reprinted from The Hartford Courant w/o permission)


In 1966, Tom Furniss graduated Amherst College.  He had started playing
rugby as an Amherst sophomore and did not want to stop.

The result of Furniss' interest in the game became the Hartford
Wanderers, one of New England's top clubs, which grew from a
quixotic launch to the organization that this spring celebrates
its 25th anniversary.  As part of that gala, the Wanderers will
host the Dillon Stadium international match between the United States
and Scotland May 18.

"In the '60s and '70s there were very few clubs so I guess you can say
we learned along the way," Furniss, a Hartford lawyer, recalls.  "When
we played London Scottish in 1968 it was only because they didn't have
that many matches to complete their tour.  Sometimes we even had trouble
finding 15 competent players for the side."

From those modest beginnings has sprung a club with an international
place in the world of rugby.  One Wanderer, Tom Vinick, has gone from the
practice fields of Colt Park to the United States Eagles, the national
team.  The club has toured Bermuda, England, Scotland and New Zealand
as well as hosting numerous visiting teams from around the world.

The Wanderers have even experienced presenting international games.  They
staged the 1982 match at Dillon that attracted 10,000 to see England
overpower the fledgling US Eagles 59-0.  The USA-Scotland match
figures to be closer because the game has grown so much since.

"I remember watching that England game and thinking that all of their
players handled the ball like the Harlem Globetrotters.  It was the
difference between guys who had grown up playing and those who had started
out at age 20.  I think the American players still have to think what
to do, while the English players do things instinctively, but the gap
has closed in the past 10 years," Furniss says.

There will probably always be some nostalgia connected with the Wanderers'
early days.  Furniss, Garr Murtha, Bill Seely, and Steve Crampton -- the
four founding fathers of the formal club -- could have been pardoned for
not seeing the glorious future during those days when the game was being
played and learned simultaneously.

There was that 53-0 loss to London Scottish, for instance, in 1968 that 
demonstrated how much the Wanderers had to learn.  But their enthusiasm
carried them and by 1975, the Wanderers could host, and beat, the
more experienced Bermuda Police RFC.  The first major regional title
came in 1977 when the Wanderers won the New England Seven-a-Side
tournament at Harvard, while 1981 saw the club post an unbeaten league
season and win the New England title.

"Teams have always like coming to Hartford," Furniss says, "because we put
the visitors up in our houses and showed them a little bit of the life
of the city.  They like New York, of course, but Hartford offered
something more than the hustle and bustle.  That helped us to get 
established."

The club is indebted to the early lessons from men such as Gordon Margetts,
an exchange teacher at then-Kingswood School, who just happened to have
played county level rugby in England, and Welshman Marty Williams, who 
combined his theater arts studies at Trinity College with playing
just about every backfield position for the Hartford club.  Furniss
credits 10-year president John D'Amico for "transforming us from adolescences
to a mature club."  D'Amico is the main organizer behind the Scotland
game, just as he was a decade ago when England came to play.

Because rugby remains amateur at the highest level worldwide it retains
a unique place among the globe's sports.  There will be a 16-nation
World Cup played this fall in Britain and France, a money-spinning
affair with big television contracts and huge attendances, but the 
athletes don't get a dime for their appearances.  It is a tradition that
rugby administrators are fighting hard to retain despite the game's
growing popularity.

Here in New England there's no danger rugby will replace the NFL.  But there's
no longer the vacuum Tom Furniss founded when he graduated from Amherst
25 years ago.
8.474LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed May 15 1991 11:4620
	Well, after Hartford went to a fair amount of effort to get us three
games this weekend, we hear Concord is dropping out.  Funny thing is, some
of their people still think they're playing.  But someone called the tourney
person and cancelled.  So we're back to the original schedule, we play Merrimack
at 8:30, Boston plays Hartford at 9:30, consolation finals at 11:30 and finals
at 12:30.  25 minute halves for all matches.  That's dangerous for us, sometimes
it takes us fourty minutes before we start to dominate Boston.  It's pretty 
pathetic getting one B-side and one A-side match at 25 minutes the week before
Nationals, but there's just not that much competition here in New England.
I'm not sure if we'll play the A-side for  both matches, to best simulate
40's, or play different people to work our depth.  The former would be a tough
decision as far as selections, we have a lot of "A-side" level people.
	I got all my tickets by yesterday, thanks to all.  I'm really looking
forward to the match.  
	We practice for a bit over 2.5 hours last night.  I think that'll be
the norm until Nationals.  We only have Thursday, then we're going to practice
Monday and Tuesday since we're leaving Thursday night.  One more practice a
week Friday, and the big game against BASH.  

Rachael
8.475CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Wed May 15 1991 12:1720
Well, good luck to you Rachael....

If I can find out which field you'll be playing on, I'll try to line
it a bit in your favor 8^)

And hey, at least you'll know that if you take the Championship, you can
go to the Eagles game, and then to the bodacious parties at Boppers and/or
Dagny's as the Champs.  

Hartford won't be able to know that until our party on Sunday evening!  8^)


I want the whole enchilada.  I want the Scotland game to go off without
a hitch (and NO crowd problems!) and I want Hartford to take the Champeenship
of Division I.  I want Worcester to take it for Division II.  I want
to be able to sit back on Sunday evening in Dagny's, have a glass of
whisky with the Scottish guys, and kick back and relax!!!!!

later,
'Saw
8.476Great rugby weekend coming up!CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 15 1991 12:5426
    Good luck at the tourney, Rachael and 'Saw.  So far the WRFC contingent
    for the US/Scotland match numbers 39.  I'm kind of surprised we were
    able to account for all of those tickets.  A 40 ticket order seemed
    pretty ambitious at first.
    
    Will tailgating be allowed outside of Dillon Stadium?  Where are the
    showers/lockerrooms?
    
    'Saw, I don't think you'll have any security problems.  Afterall, this
    isn't a soccer match ;^).  Hartford does have a tough act to follow in
    hosting the tournament.  Newport always does a very good job.  It helps
    to have some of the best pitches in New England available (there's been
    some grumbling among our guys about having to play at Colt Park rather
    than at Ft. Adams St. Park due to the quality of the fields).
    
    We're really looking forward to playing in the tournament.  Confidence
    and enthusiasm are real high right now.  Our coach has been working us
    hard in rucking drills to try to get some of the techniques to become
    second nature.  He's also working with us to open up our style of play
    and become less predictable.  Our depth is pretty good this year.  Last
    night we were able to work alot of different combinations of players
    during game situation drills to make sure everyone is on the same page
    whether they've been playing As or Bs.  From what I heard we have a 22
    player squad selected for Saturday and everyone in that squad will get
    a game.  Our match secretary has also arranged a match against Boston
    Bs for everyone else who is coming down.
8.477LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Wed May 15 1991 13:2118
OK, 'Saw, line it big, I think we win on atheletes.

Beantown this season feels the strongest it has since I joined.  At practice,
games, in elevators and hotels, everywhere, we are pulling so hard for each
other and everyone is really pushing themselves.  There is some serious
contention for some of the positions, but the struggle is a positive one.
There used to be some people on the team who I got along with and some who I
didn't especially, but this season it feels like we are all sisters.   I know
all the non-players (or at least some of them) will think I'm just being sappy,
but the power in the team this season is tremendous.  I'm really excited about
it, and we're all looking forward to Memorial Day.

Keith and Frank, I hope you have the same power with you this weekend, and
that you take your divisions.  I hope we take ours, I'm still nervous about
these short halves.  Boston was leading us at halftime last time we played 
them.

Rachael
8.478CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Wed May 15 1991 13:3663
Okay, I'll try to answer some questions:


	- Will tailgating be allowed.

		I'm not sure.  At Dillon, the parking will cost $2.  I'm 
		honestly not sure if you can tailgate there.  Overflow 
		parking will be catch as catch can in the area.  If you're
		on a city street, tailgating will be tough.

		One note:  Coolers will NOT be allowed inside the stadium.

		Beer sales at the stadium will be Newcastle Brown Ale
		or McEwans Export Ale, in pints, for $3.

	- Lockerrooms.

		Locker room facilities will be at Buckley H.S.  Mac, if
		you remember where you played us (on The Rock), the 
		school is back across the street (Wawarme Ave).  It's
		a short walk (perhaps two, three minutes MAX).  I'm
		not sure if there will be tournament parking behind
		Buckley, but my guess would be yes.

		There will be no locker room attendants, but two guys will
		be checking it at least every hour.


Colt Park vs Newport.

	Yes, this is a tough situation.  NERFU and USARFU thought that the
	international was so important that they agreed to move the tourney
	to Hartford.  I think it's unfortunate that they had to be on the
	same weekend, but such is life.  (My life would be a lot easier if
	we didn't have to line the NE tourney fields at 0630 8^))

	We are doing our best however, to be the best hosts possible.

	There are two post tourney parties in Hartford.  One is at Dagny's
	(where the post WRFC game drinkup was) and the other is at Boppers
	which is an oldies club over near the train station.  These are
	on Saturday evening.  As was the case in Newport (or so I've heard)
	there is a small cover charge, and you buy your own beer.

	The Wanderers have been told (from our own leadership) that if we
	attend these parties we are not to drink too much and should, at 
	all costs, prevent any far-out rugby type stuff from happening.
	(ie Nudin' up and peein' on the bar....)


Mac, I'll look for you and the other dudes from your team I'd recognize.
Best of luck.  You and I know that the luck is in the ruck, so those 
drills will probably pay off...

Rachael, I'll line it huge so all you lady ruggers can run your collective
derrieres off 8^)

I think that after a somewhat shaky start this spring, the season and
the Old Blue defeat has pulled us really tight together.  We all want it.


Best of luck,
'Saw
8.479CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 15 1991 14:2220
    We gots to pay for parking too??!!??  And a cover charge to get into a
    rugby party??!!??
    
    I realize the expenses incurred in hosting an international (I helped
    look into bidding on a game for the cancelled Soviet tour), but we have
    to stop hitting up the players.  At least there was a price break on
    the tickets if you ordered as a club.  The costs for the weekend are
    adding up.  There is an entry fee for the tournament (what the heck are
    we paying Union dues for anyway), $10 ea to see the International, $2
    to park, $3/beer (no BYOB), a cover for the party and no free beer
    (didn't we pay an entry fee?).
    
    Are there picnic areas in Colt park ifn we can't tailgate?  It would be
    nice to be able to bring our own food along and not get raped by the
    street vendors or go in search of a McDonald's.
    
    With Newport offering a bottomless tournament mug for $10 the last few
    years, there's going to be some grumbling over $3/beer.
    
    'Saw, You guys still can't use your own clubhouse I see.
8.480Hope Sportsters win this weekendOZARDZ::WASKOMWed May 15 1991 15:5819
    When I was scouting out Colt last weekend, I didn't see any picnic
    tables.  That doesn't mean you can't do a picnic, just that it will
    probably have to be the blanket-by-the-side-of-the-pitch kind of thing.
    
    I suspect that you'll be able to find free parking - only the fenced
    lot right next to Dillon will cost, and I'd rather have my vehicle on
    the other side of the park *anyway*.
    
    Things have definitely changed in the last 12 years.  I remember having
    our camper used as locker/shower room at *all* tournaments (sometimes I
    thought the camper was the only reason my ex got tournament selections)
    for our team, 'cause facilities weren't available.  Paying for drinks
    at the drink-up was standard practice, too.
    
    And I had to walk to school 10 miles, in the snow, up-hill both ways.
    
    :-)  :-)  :-)
    
    A&W
8.481CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Wed May 15 1991 16:2757
>  I realize the expenses incurred in hosting an international (I helped
>    look into bidding on a game for the cancelled Soviet tour),but we have
>    to stop hitting up the players.  At least there was a price break on
>    the tickets if you ordered as a club.  The costs for the weekend are
>    adding up.  There is an entry fee for the tournament (what the heck are
>    we paying Union dues for anyway), $10 ea to see the International, $2
>    to park, $3/beer (no BYOB), a cover for the party and no free beer
>    (didn't we pay an entry fee?).
    

Okay, the cost's are mostly incurred for the international.

The $10 ticket price, like you said, was a discount.  Because of our
sponsors for the event, we cannot allow byob to the international, and
also, it might be a Hartford/Connecticut law.

Our sponsers are Newcastle and McEwans, (with the assistance of their local
distributor).  In addition, Heublein, who in the past has helped sponsor
HWRFC for international tours, is the local handler of Famous Grouse
Scotch.  When Heublein found out that Famous Grouse is a sponsor of the
Scots for the World Cup, they are jointly sponsoring.  Because of that
we can't have byob.

A similar type event in this area is the Canon GHO golf tournament.
Because of their sponsorship, you can't bring coolers or cameras onto
the course.  They soak you $3.50 for a 12 oz beer, as opposed to the
$3 for a pint at the game.

Parking is $2.  For a Whalers game or other Hartford event, you'd pay
$3 way out, up to $6 for the Civic Center.



I'll try to find out about port-o-lets and stuff.  There aren't any picnic
tables that I know of (Public Works hasn't put them out yet, because there
are tables during the summer), but there are plenty of shady spots under
trees where you could put a blanket out....


As to the party after the games, I believe (don't hold me to this because
I don't know for sure) that the cover charge is a reduced charge from what
they normally charge to get into the club.  I don't know about the beer 
prices or what arrangements have been made, I just know that there aren't
free kegs like after our games.

I don't know what all the entry fees cover, really.  I was not on the
executive board (thank God, because their weekly meeting routinely broke
up around 1am -- and it was ALL business if I know John D'Amico) so
I really can't give a financial breakdown...

I'll see what I can find out....


Do you know (I don't) if places like Godek's or Rugby Imports bring
a trailer or something for these big tournaments????

'Saw
8.482FRAGLE::MACNEALBig MacWed May 15 1991 18:3721
8.483CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Wed May 15 1991 20:0336
I hear ya, Big Guy....

I sat down and figured out what my outlay has been since joining.
(Figure I had NOTHING but one pair of rugby shorts when I started).


	Dues (first sesason - new guy rate)	$38
	Dues (spring season)			$75
	Rugby Shorts (3 pairs)			$48
	Jersey (2 - one to cut sleeves off)	$90
	Boots (Adidas Flankers)			$75
	Socks (long, black - four pair)		$28 
	
	Mouthpieces	(2)			$ 4
	Earwig					$ 8 (?)
	Tape					  ?
                                               -----
						366

That doesn't include a couple of rugby shirts picked up here and there
for practice, nor any of the (somewhat manadatory 8^)) t-shirts, 
sweat shirts etc etc etc

This fall, it'll be another $75.....


But hey, I'm not complaining.  I may ache, I may have some pains here and
there, but when I come off the field after a win, or after we've eaten 
some othe pack up, I feel invincible.....

'Saw





8.484CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 15 1991 20:088
8.485CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Wed May 15 1991 20:166
I hear ya....

I was kind of astounded dues were that high, but what the heck.  I can't
do anything about it....

8^)
8.486OZARDZ::WASKOMWed May 15 1991 20:188
    Suddenly the light dawns on how you guys managed to accumulate the
    funds for a clubhouse.  :-)
    
    Wish I remembered what dues were back in the dark ages of my
    preliminary involvement with the game.  Uniform prices don't appear to
    be up that much, but dues feel like they're up substantially.
    
    A&W
8.487LEDS::BERMANGive blood, Play rugby!Thu May 16 1991 10:526
'Saw, on the costs, how about travel.  This season, our team has gone to
San Diego, DC, Monmoth NJ, Albany (overnight), and we'll go to DC again in
two weeks.  Plus hotels in San Diego, Monmoth, DC, Albany, Hartford, etc.
You have to really love this game to play.

Rachael
8.488CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Thu May 16 1991 11:4247
Hmm...

Let's see, travel costs....

Well, personally, it wasn't that much because I'm not at the level you
are Rachael.  Also, I think that because there are fewer womens teams
around you have to travel more (yes/no?).

But, last fall we had four away games in the Boston area.  At DEC mileage
rates, and assuming I'm about 80 miles from Boston (a little low perhaps)
that's $18 each way.  Toss in anywhere from $10 to $20 depending on 
what/where I ate on the way home (if the drinkup didn't provide food).

The A side did have to cough up $200 for a round trip to Buffalo for the
Wild Card game.


This spring we had two aways in the NY area, and we've been home since.
Because I was sick, I missed the Washington tournament, but I did have
$150 set aside for travel/lodging.  That doesn't take into account
food and beers.


The Bahamas tour, totally unsponsored, cost $580 right off, but that covered
lodging, flight, and transport to/from the airport.  The rest of the money
I spent on that was for food, booze and presents, and doing stuff like
snorkeling.


So yeah, traveling does get expensive.

I forgot also that at home their is a $3 game fee.  This helps to 
defray the cost of the drinkup.

There are other incidentals too.  Fitness is important.  Most guys
belong to a health club.  The cheapest I've found around here is
$215 per year, but the price goes up for a smaller, less crowded club.



The clubhouse is another matter.  I don't know all the financials, but
this I know:  We own the entire building, rent the bar to Paulie O's.
Six members of the Wanderers have heavy personal investments in the
property also.  But that's all I know....


'Saw
8.489CAM::WAYJose, did you diddle Madonna?Thu May 16 1991 11:4288
U.S. RUGBY TEAM NO MATCH FOR SCOTS
------------------------------------

by Jerry Trecker


(reprinted from the Hartford Courant w/o permission)


Only a  wild-eyed optimist will think the United States has any 
chance against Scotland Saturday in an international rugby match at
3 p.m. at Dillon Stadium in Hartford.  Though the American Eagles
have won four of their past five matches, including two recent
victories over Japan, the United States never has defeated a major power.

Still, Saturday's game will offer information about the Americans' 
progress in a sport played by relatively few in this country.

The basic question for the United States is straight forward:  Can we
compete on a realistic level against the best teams in the world?
Scotland is among the top six teams in the world.  History suggests
the United States can't, even allowing for the growth of the sport
over the last decade.  Although the Eagles have proven their
ability to defeat Canada, Japan, even Romania on one occasion, they 
simply have not been able to test the likes of Australia, England,
or New Zealand.  Back in 1980, the New Zealand All Blacks laid a 53-6
hammering on the Americans.  Last year, Australia's powerful side
won 67-9 in a match in Australia.  Progress, obviously, comes slowly
for the United States.

Scotland, on the other hand, is a well-established international power,
but a country that has usually fallen short of ranking among the
world's elite.  This side, though it is not at full strength, grows
from the best Scotland team of recent years, one which has
ambitions to take giant steps next fall during the Rugby World Cup.

Two years ago the Scots won the Five Nations Championship, the annual
tournament contested among England, France, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
Last winter they were beaten by both the English and French on the 
road, and finished third behind England.  When next fall's World Cup
kicks off, they'll be rated fifth in the field, trailing not only
those two Five Nations rivals, but the Australians and New Zealanders, 
as well.  If South Africa, close to a return to the international
arena, were able to play, the Scots would probably drop to No. 6, but
the gap between sixth and first is narrowing constantly.

For one thing, there is a great deal more money in the international
game these days.  Although the players remain amateurs, they can 
profit from off-the-field ventures that take advantage of their
international rugby status.  And, though they are not full-timers,
the amount of training and coaching that has come into the game at the
top level means these Saturday visitors to Dillon Stadium are accomplished
players.  In fact, all of them play regular league rugby all winter,
take part in international training, and know the potential rewards that 
come with winning a Five Nations titles or a World Cup.

That change in the top-level game is one reason the Americans have found
it so hard to close the gap.  Our players are amateurs, the United
States Rugby Football Union and clubs like the host Hartford Wanderers,
composed of people who play and promote the sport for pleasure.  The
men and women who have worked to bring about this international
match in Hartford are all full-time workers at something else; there is
no lucrative bonus at the end of the rugby tunnel in the USA.

Our players have gotten better.  That's undeniable, but the measured
growth of a fringe American game is nothing like the accelerated development
in countries where the game is taken seriously.  Those Five Nations'
matches, for instance, are routinely televised around the world.  The
World Cup will be aired globally also.

The Scots in Hartford include some of the world's best players.  Flyhalf
Craig Chalmers, who plays his club rugby with Melrose, is established
internationally.  So is the Gala fullback Peter Dods, hooker Kenneth
Milne from the Edinburgh club, Heriot's FB, and the Hawick winger
Tony Stanger.  But the traveling squad also includes 15 players who never
have played for their country, a sure sign the Scots are using this
short North American venture to evaluate up-and-coming players who might
become part of that World Cup pool.

The Americans will, paradoxically, be the more experienced team in terms
in internationals, but that is clearly misleading.  Though club rugby
is improving in the United States, Scotland's First Division is a 
considerably tougher weekly regimen for the players.

On balance, American rugby fans will probably settle for a competitive
game at Dillon.  History suggests that may be possible, but only if the
U.S team can raise the level of its game and catches the visitors a bit
unprepared.
8.490Court caseEUSEBE::STURTFri May 17 1991 06:2518

	International All Black forward Allan Whetton has copped
	a three-match ban following a stamping incident in a game against
	Western Samoa. So what's new?

	What's new is that the lawsuit was brought against Whetton by
	a spectator at the match, and not the victim of the aggression.

	On the strength of video evidence, the NZRU judged that the
	incident was accidental but avoidable (?).

	Any examples of legal action against players in the States? Do
	the US rugby authorities deal with such matters, or have any
	players been taken to civil courts following violence on the
	pitch?

	Ed.
8.491DUFFY::BERMANMon May 20 1991 11:0148
    Well, this has to be short since I start a new job today, but...
    
    Yes, 'Saw, as you can probably tell from the score in the finals, we
    do have to travel for competition and there aren't nearly as many
    women's clubs as men's.  There are a lot of women's colleges, though.
    
    Regionals was a blast.  (And I didn't even go to any of the parties)
    Congratulations to Hartford for a job well done.
    
    I played #8 in our first match against Merrimack.  I had a great time.
    I have no idea what the score was, but I didn't drink any water at half
    time because it didn't even occur to me.  Not too strenuous.
    
    Then I played #8 for a half and fullback for a half (hahahaha) in a
    pickup game of Concord vs Merrimack. (plus some Beantown fillins on
    either side)  That was really scary and I'm not sure I'd do it again.
    I was terrified to go into the loose play, I really thought it was 
    dangerous.  It was so bizarre not to know where your teammates were 
    going to be or what they are going to do.  I kept asking "what's your
    call for this, what's your signal" and they thought it was really funny
    that I asked.  They're just happy to get a full side on the field.
    
    We played Hartford in the finals (Yeah Hartford for beating Boston for
    the first time in years!  With one of their best players on crutches)
    (She didn't play, Hawk)  I have no idea what the score was, but it was
    a lot of points to nothing, I think.
    
    Then we went to see the Eagles match.  Really well hosted, I thought.
    I was a little disappointed in the flow of the game, as it leaned
    strongly towards kicking and had minimal running, but other then that,
    it was great.  'Saw, I kept looking for a great big prop but I don't
    think I saw you.  I kept seeing men that looked like centers or wings.
    The women's eagles were introduced at halftime, (the ones there, which
    were from our team) and I thought that was a really nice touch.  We put
    up a banner, it occured to me later that it might seem obnoxious but
    it wasn't meant to so I hope it was OK.  I helped the women who made it
    put it up and she had it upside down at first.  I should have known 
    better then to trust an artist, I should have checked it...
    
    Frank, I am really disappointed I didn't meet you.  With an 8:30 game,
    9:30 game, then immediately going to help warm up the team for the
    finals, I was late to the Eagles match and didn't get a chance.  I
    think the one big thing I missed from this tourney vs Newport is that I
    didn't get a chance to see other teams play.  I enjoy seeing
    some of the men's teams play, especially at the higher level, and
    Newport is just about the only place I ever do that.  
    
    Rachael
8.492PSDUFFY::BERMANMon May 20 1991 11:035
    PS  Keith, it was nice to see you and Roger.  Thanks for coming over. 
    Sorry I was distracted, I was trying to simultaneously babysit one of
    our player's baby and watch the finals.  Sorry to hear about your game.
    
    Rachael
8.493FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 20 1991 11:235
    I went to the tournament and the USA - Scotland game and had a great
    time.  The entire Hartford Wanderers club deserves a lot of credit for
    a job well done.
    
    John
8.494CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament Champs 1991Mon May 20 1991 12:17118
Wow, what a weekend!  Phew, I'm glad it's over, in a way!

First off, I bummed I didn't get to meet you too Rachael.  I got rolling
at 0630 Saturday morning, and literally didn't stop until 9:45 pm that night!

Thanks to all who came to support us also.

Regarding Hartford Roses beating Boston to get to the Women's final, that
was a GREAT thing.  One of the Hartford players is married to one of our 
wingers, and I talked with her after the game.   Despite losing to Beantown
BIG in the final, she was positively GLOWING about beating Boston.


My weekend started off on Friday evening, with our 25th Anniversary banquet.
We had an excellent cocktail hour, with free Newcastle Brown Ale and 
munchies.

The meal was great.  Following the meal, we had some speeches.  Tom Furniss,
founder of the Wanderers, was the emcee, and he gave an entertaining speech
about the early days.   The President of the Scottish Rugby Union spoke,
and was quite pleasant to listen to (LOVE the accent and what he had to say).
What moved me was when he talked of being at a banquet for the Barbarians
100th Anniversary.  Boy, do we have a long way to go.

Mike Fox, long time Wanderers Captain/President in the 70s, gave a VERY
inspirational speech.  At one point, he held up a Hartford jersey (green
w/ black hoops) and talked about what it meant to be a Wanderer.  He mentioned
one of the goals set for the club 20+ years ago was a National Championship.
At the end of his speech, he said that he knew that one day, 15 men
would stand on a rugby pitch, and that to win the national championship,
they'd have to face this (and he held up our jersey).  He got a standing-0 for
that!

Saturday dawned wet and rainy.  I felt like I was duck hunting as I trudged
(slogged?) all over the fields putting up goal posts, cones etc. etc.
We all know that God loves the infantry and rugby players, and Saturday
was a prime example.

The weather started to clear up by Hartford's first game at 0830.  Due to
a lot of hard work early in the week, all the Wanderers were able to stop
and watch the team play.

Our first match was New Haven.  They played tough in the forwards, and
were rucking well.  The two teams played to a standoff at halftime 3-3.
In the second half, we traded penalty kicks, so with about two minutes
left in the game, it was 6-6.  We were all worried about the tie breakers,
because anything can happen then.  (Tie breakers were a 7 minute sudden
death, followed by a "kick-off" started dead center at 25 yards and
moving back at the refs discretion, first miss loses).

With about 2 minutes left, New Haven was called offsides.  Glen Judge
split the uprights from about 35 yards, and Hartford held on to win 9-6.

Back over to Dillon stadium to set up a tent, and back for the second
game at 10:30.  Hartford had to play Providence, who had beaten Hartford
in the finals last year.   The referee in this match was atrocious.
He was continually calling against Hartford, and it looked bleak.  The
Wanderers on the sideline were livid, and Count was trying to keep us
spectators from blowing the game from the sidelines.

Providence scored the game's only try and took a 6-0 lead.  However,
were were awarded a penalty late in the first half, and at half time
Providence led 6-3.  That was the score most of the second half, both
teams going at each other like two heavyweights trading punches.
I began to get worried, because the ref was still preventing us from
playing our game succesfully.

However, with about two minutes left, some deft kicking opened up something
deep in Providence territory on the left side.  The forwards were relentless
in their pursuit and were able to ruck just enough to maintain possession.
Derek Annesser, our scrum half, made a phenomenal pass (as he was getting
creamed) to Glen Judge, who was dead center on the posts, about 20 yards
out.  His drop goal split 'em.  On the sidelines we went nuts.  It was
tied!!!!

Play continued back and forth for another minute and a half, when Hartford
got possession in Providence's zone once again.  Backs and forwards combined
to move it up field, and when our 8man Bob Hess pushed it farther, took
a hit and we started to ruck, Providence was called for an over the
top penalty.  It was only about the 3rd call all game that went our
way.  

With 30 seconds or so left, Glen again drilled the kick.  When the ref
whistle no-side, we went beserk.  We were going to the finals!!!!


The highlight of the day was the Eagles match.  It went well, I thought, 
and by 7:30 I was able to go to the drinkup at Dagny's.  I was so tired
I was out by nine.

Yesterday was the final game.  We were up against our ArchRivals Boston.
The game started ominously with Boston getting a quick overload and
scoring a try about two minutes into the game.  I was worried.  But
when we scored on the next rush up field, I figured that we'd give it to
them good.  It was 6-4.  Boston went up 9-4 on a penalty, but by the
end of the half, two Glen Judge penalty kicks gave us a 10-9 margin.

The second half started and we played really hard.  There were some stitches
needed in the front row, and at one point Al Deken got wanged in the head
hard enough to need a trip to the ER after the game.  (But his play at that
point saved the game, reversing the field when confronted with about 7 Boston
players converging on him, and getting completely to the other side of the
field, then kicking a sweet kick to touch).

We went up 13-9 on a penalty, and Boston again pulled to within one on 
their own penalty kicking.  At that point, we got really serious, and 
scored a converted try to lead 19-12 about halfway into the second half.

Late in the game, the insurance try gave us our 25-12 victory, and the
New England Tournament championship.  We all converged on the team at the
sidelines for champagne, the trophy presentation, and just to savor the 
moment.

The beers at Dagny's afterwards tasted soooo good.

All in all not a bad weekend......

'Saw
8.495DUFFY::BERMANMon May 20 1991 12:5112
    'Saw,
    	Congratulations on winning the finals!  It sounds like a bunch of
    good games.  Even though it's not that competative (sp?), it still felt
    great when we won, and it must have been even better for you guys.
    
    Somebody (John from NERFU's wife?  Who's John, Mac?) took our picture
    after the final.  Maybe we'll be in one of the rags.  If so, can
    somebody save me the photo?  
    
    Rachael
    
    PS  'Saw, do you know what the score in the finals for the women was?
8.496Congrats to Wanderers for *great* weekendOZARDZ::WASKOMMon May 20 1991 13:0541
    I'm still flying from the weekend.  John came down with me (or me with
    him, whatever......) and we had a *great* time.  We were there in time
    for the first Hartford match, then only had to stay put at that field
    to watch Worcester and Keith MacNeil.  I'm sorry we never got a chance
    to say hi to you, Mac.  Then on to the second Hartford match.  That one
    was a real nail-biter, but the right team won.  I then split to watch
    Mystic River v. Boston, hoping that Mystic would win.  Unfortunately,
    the "good guys" got clobbered (Mystic River was the team I learned 90%
    of my rugby with) 27 - 4 or something like that.
    
    The Eagles game was a treat.  The Wanderers (I assume) had found a
    bagpipe band who were playing as we walked into the stadium.  We found
    'Saw and sat with his family, which was a delight.  His mom may not
    know the game real well, but she sure knew when to cheer!  Now I know
    where his enthusiasm comes from. :-)  The game felt closer than the
    final score indicated, but I'll be interested to see the game on the
    tube.  There were a lot of penalties in the first half that I couldn't
    tell what was being called.  The Hartford Courant had a very nice
    write-up of the game on Sunday morning.
    
    Went to Dagny's for the drink-up, but managed to leave before 'Saw got
    there, and missed Mac completely.  :-(
    
    Saw most of the games on Sunday.  Charles River (another set of 'knew
    the team in a previous lifetime') played Beacon Hill in the Div I 
    consolation match, and lost.  Div II final was Amoskeag v Springfield. 
    Amoskeag won, but the game was very well played and Springfield kept it
    close until the last 10 minutes or so.  Since Amoskeag is now playing
    Div I, it wasn't surprising that they won.
    
    Then came the Hartford/Boston final.  Very, very intense game, with
    magnificent play on both sides of the ball.  I'd love to have a tape of
    that game, as it was a real classic (hint, hint -- I'll supply a blank
    tape :-) ).  In a way, it was an even better game than the Eagles, hard
    as that is to believe.  The right team won, and everyone involved
    deserves a lot of credit.
    
    
    I can't believe that I have to wait until next fall for my next "fix".
    
    A&W
8.497CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsMon May 20 1991 13:0841
Sorry Rachael, all I know was it was a lot to very-little-if-anything....

John from NERFU.  Heavy, black guy, with really curly hair?  If that's who
you mean, he's a great guy.  I think he plays/played for Mystic River.
He presented us with the Tournament Plate.

I'd be we're written up in Rugby magazine!


How'd it feel?  Hmmm...

Well, even though I did not play, I was ecstatic.  Of course, the ultimate
would have been to have played, but it was the TEAM that got us there.
We all practiced, and when the A side needed skittles to ruck over it
was us 8^)....

That one victory, and that quintescential moment when the ref whistle
no-side, was what every single hellish moment in the rain and drizzle
of February in the parking lot was about.  It was the instant in time
that made all of Count's yelling and screaming in practice tolerable.
It was what gave me more motivation to work out like a madman this summer.

To have worked hard for four months, and then, to have had this tournament
in addition to all the other things going on (ie the International) and
to have had a lot of former Wanderers there, it was suddenly all worthwhile.

And for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon, after the game, it was
like time stood still and the warm sun just kind of hung there.  Someone
produced a boom-box, and some laid back tunes were played.  We all sat
around and dranks some beers, and everywhere you looked there were smiles....

Slowly, people started to move off to Dagny's to party, but to be there,
in that moment in time, is something I will never, ever forget.  AS
Count said Thursday at the end of practice, and as John D'Amico said
Friday night, and as Tom Vinick said in his captain's speech before the
game "It's an opportunity that will never come again...it's commitment,
it's determination, it's hard work"....  Yesterday, it all paid off.

We pulled the lever, and the slot machine came up all cherries.....

'Saw
8.498CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsMon May 20 1991 13:3711
Re the early penalties in the Scotland game:

I didn't see every one, but if memory serves me correctly, a couple
of them were for "over the top" on the ruck.

In one case, the ref CLEARLY missed the Scottish player handling the
ball on the ground, calling the Eagle for over-the-top instead....

Least that's what I think....

'Saw
8.499FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 20 1991 13:5644
    Some more thoughts after the weekend ....
    
    I very much regret not getting interested in rugby sooner.  I had the
    football contemptuous attitude toward it for a long time "Any sport
    where you have a keg of beer on the sideline isn't a sport."  Boy, was
    I wrong.  It takes some getting used to but it's easy to learn to
    watch, exciting and interesting.  The game itself is intense but there
    are a lot of things that make it enjoyable - the intensity, the purity
    and the camaraderie.
    
    From my earlier notes about demonstrations I bemoaned a lack of
    sportsmanship and this sport has it - in spades.  There's no stylin',
    no individual expression, no showing anybody up but a true level of
    teamwork and a true feeling of respect towards the opponents.  In fact,
    I heard after the Amoskeag - Springfield game yesterday (where
    Springfield hung tough against a superior team for a very long time),
    the Amoskeag captain saying "I don't want to hear any gloating, they
    gave us all we could handle and they're a bunch of good guys."  I can't
    imagine hearing that on very many other sidelines.  It seems like every
    rugby player is every other rugby player's friend, or soon will be.
    
    It's very much an informal family atmosphere on the sidelines.  Lots of
    kids.  Lots of wives.  Lots of large, manly dogs (Alison tells me that
    rugby and wimp dogs like poodles don't mix) observing the action.
    
    The post-game parties, though rowdy, are lots of fun.  The players are
    uniformly friendly.  I've never heard so many British, Irish and Scots
    accents in my life as I did this weekend.  Some of these guys were also
    interested in the cricket games going on in another part of the park,
    in fact, the one gentleman from Ireland who I met at the party Saturday
    night was having an intense conversation with a couple of guys from one
    of the islands over the merits of a particular cricket bat.
    
    'Saw, I was glad to be there for your special weekend.  To have it come
    off as well as it did is a great credit to the entire club.  I could
    see how hard the club in general and you in particular worked to make
    it happen.  I had the chance to meet a couple of your guys and they
    were very friendly and welcoming.  It was a really great experience to
    be there.
    
    My big regret now is that I'm tied up with football so much in the Fall
    that I may not be able to watch as much rugby as I'd like.
    
    John
8.500CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsMon May 20 1991 14:2032
Thanks John....

It was a pleasure having you and Alison there (and folks, I wouldn't have
made it to the sidelines for the celebration if John hadn't graciously
watched the cameras for me!).

We're trying very hard to put forth the idea that rugby is not a bunch of
hooligan's kick the s__t out of each other, and weekends like this past
weekend, make it easier to do.

One of the nicest things about the sport that I like is that way all players
trade jersies after an international.  And speaking of jersies, if anyone
thought that the Eagles jersies came short-sleeved, they should have seen
the pile of cutoff sleeves on the floor of the locker room!


In New England rugby, there is probably no harder fought, more intense
rivalry than the Hartford-Boston one.  It's not a friendly rivalry, like
the one between Hartford and Beacon-Hill, and it sometimes gets VERY rough,
but when all is said and done, there's still the handshake line, and the
Three Cheers for Boston.  That's another thing I like about rugby.


You can have the Bruins and the Whalers.  The TRUE CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM in
HARTFORD wears GREEN AND BLACK and we gave a rugby clinic yesterday.

In fact, Boston was so impressed with our loose forwards' play yesterday
that they came over to our sideline to tell us just how great they
thought our flankers and 8man were...


'Saw
8.501CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 15:314
8.502Well done, HRFC!CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 16:2381
    Congratulations HWRFC on a job well done!  The hosting of the
    tournament and the Test match seemed to go off without a hitch.  I'm
    glad to hear that Hartford was able to cap it off with a well deserved
    victory!
    
    While driving to Hartford on Saturday morning, my wife was a bit
    anxious about the weather.  She wasn't looking forward to spending the
    day in the car with the dog and baby.  Fortunately, the weather
    cleared, and the temperature stayed down to make for good playing and
    spectating weather.  While the late rains must have made it tough on
    Frank and the rest of the groundscrew, it made for an excellent playing
    surface (other than one big puddle).
    
    Worcester drew Harvard Business School RFC in the first round of the
    Division II bracket.  I was selected at lock.  Not having played HBS
    for a couple of years I was quite surprised at their size (and later
    their playing ability).  I didn't stand a chance against my opposite in
    the lineout, yet I was able to steal a couple throws and played
    disruptor quite a bit.  Despite their size, we did well in the scrums
    and even took a couple against the head.  We played into the wind for
    the first half and for the most part played in their half, but had only
    2 penalty kicks to show for it.  Harvard worked into Worcester
    territory toward the end of the half.  Harvard had a few opportunities
    to score as Worcester was called for 3 or 4 penalties, but they were
    only able to convert one.  Score at half time was 6-3 Worcester.  With
    the wind at our backs in the second half, we really started to control
    the game.  Our wing scored a beauty of a try with a little chip ahead
    and then outran the opposition to the ball in the try zone.  A second
    try was added after some good handling in the forwards.  HBS, down 18-3
    then threw all caution to the winds and came on with some intense
    pressure.  The game deteriorated into helter-skelter play, but
    Worcester was able to hold off the attack and won 18-3.
    
    We were then able to rest and watch a very exciting match between
    Hartford and Providence.  At half time with Providence up 6-3, I
    thought for sure Hartford would be eliminated.  Hartford showed a lot
    of poise and desire in the second half though and staged a remarkable
    comeback.
    
    In Worcester's second match of the day, we were faced with USA Rugby
    East Division II champs, Amoskeag, for the Div. II semifinal.  WRFC has
    been able to add to the depth chart this season and as a result, we
    were able to put in a few fresh players for this match (unfortunately
    for me, I was relegated to a substitute role for this match and I
    wanted to play against Amoskeag real bad).  We were again over matched
    in the size department, but unlike HBS, Amoskeag was able to use this
    advantage as they are a well coached and disciplined team.  Worcester
    and Amoskeag use a similar game plan by using the rucks to set up
    possession for the backs.  Amoskeag was able to do it better as they
    continously outnumbered Worcester at the loose ball.  Amoskeag has an
    outstanding player at the flyhalf.  His tactical kicking gave us fits
    all day.  Worcester came out very flat at half time and Amoskeag just
    kept pouring it on.  The final score was 30-0 in Amoskeag's favor.
    
    Worcester has alot of work to do.  I'd like to think we'll do well in
    the fall, but I know Springfield and Old Gold are going to give us
    fits.  We still have the same problems we had when I left.  We don't
    have any legitimate lineout threats in the locks and our tactical
    kicking is poor.  We were able to overcome that in 1989, though.  The
    fire that won us the New England championship that year just doesn't
    seem to be there.  There have been glimpses of it; especially when we
    played the touring sides.  A change in leadership (and hopefully a
    change in mindset) may help, but I don't know where it's going to come
    from.
    
    It was great sitting in the bleachers at Dillon Stadium watching my
    first live test match.  I thought there were too many whistles in the
    first half.  I also thought the US was clearly outmatched in the second
    half.  Hartford did make up for the price gouging by at least serving
    beer in the stands ;^).  I had a chance to talk to 'Saw, JohnH, and
    Rachael a little.  I was able to wave to Allyson a couple of times.  I
    was also able to attend a mini-reunion of guys I played with at WPI
    (one of them is a Wanderer).  After the match my daughter needed to be
    fed and there wasn't much I could do about it, so my manly dog ;^) and
    I went back inside and had a few brews and just kicked back and watched
    the Scotland and US players mingling around the beer tent.
    
    I would have liked to attend the party at Dagny's, but I have a 5 month
    old that is doing a darn good job at running my life now.  Since
    Worcester was eliminated on Saturday, I just stayed home on Sunday and
    watched the Sox get massacred :^(.
8.503CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsMon May 20 1991 17:2530
Well, Mac, about the only advice I can give about Worcester's predicament
is this:

	If the club gets out and recruits, and recruits and recruits,  it
	might help....8^)

I know that sounds facetious, but we tend to have players coming out because
a friend of a friend said something about it etc etc etc.  If you guys
got a little height going for you, you'd be damn threatening, because
you guys ruck REAL well...


In the Providence game, the ref was trying to control our style of play.
Wanderers play is characterized by relentless pressure on the ball, HARD
rucking, and maximization of possession.  The ref was taking away our
ability to ruck hard.  In the post game speech Count told us "Never,
ever let an outside party dictate your game.  I'd rather you loses playing
our game the way we play it, than to let an outside party take it away from
us.  Today it was close -- awful close -- but we still prevailed"....

No one on the sidelines quit.  We kept up an intense cheering section, and
our guys on the field gave 150%.....


That Amoskeag fly half is GOOD.  We were joking about him, because he is
so fair skinned that should only play on hazy days 8^).  Should be a good
addition to the Division I schedule.....


'Saw
8.504CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 17:4734
8.505CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsMon May 20 1991 18:038
The Hartford - Boston match has always been a hard fought game.  Historically,
Boston has been the better club.  But, we've beaten them the last three
times we've played them!

It was great to beat them Sunday!


'Saw
8.506FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 20 1991 18:2412
    Mac, is part of the problem the overabundance of local clubs?  From
    watching this weekend, I noticed 5 teams from Boston (Beacon Hill,
    Boston, Charles River, Mystic River and Old Gold), plus Worcester,
    Providence and Amoskeag.  I'm not sure how Harvard Business School fits
    in here.  In any event, that's an awful lot of teams competing for
    talent within an hour of Boston.  I'm not sure how that compares with
    areas around some of our other major cities.
    
    Then of course you in Worcester would also have to compete for players
    with Springfield and Hartford.  I'm sure it's not easy.
    
    John
8.507CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 18:5638
8.508CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsMon May 20 1991 19:1424
I know that HS rugby flourishes in the Philly area.

If New England could get the high schools in the area interested in rugby, 
and develop some potential there, then there's always the possibility of
a New England club winning the National championship.

I'd love to try to get something started in this area at that level, even
if it's a regional team.  Kids who pick the game up in college LOVE it,
(and don't I wish I'D started then!) and who knows what the enthusiasm
could do in HS....

Mac, you're in a tough area gegraphically.

What happened in Hartford is just the opposite of what happened in Boston.
The West Hartford Yahoos, and the Berlin Strollers disbanded, with most
of the players coming to Hartford, strengthening the club.

To illustrate, after Boston came over and mentioned how great our flankers
were yesterday, after Boston left, the first remark that was made was
"I didn't have the heart to tell them we have 8 more like those two that
were on the field...."


'Saw
8.509High School/Prep School rugby in New EnglandCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 19:2818
    According to the 1990 National Directory, there are 7 High School clubs
    in New England.  St. Peter Marion would make 8.  I don't know if any
    others have started up.  The list of schools is as follows:
    
    Barrington HS (Barrington, RI)
    Brewster Academy (Wolfeboro, NH)
    Brookline HS (Brookline, MA)
    Cushing Academy (Ashburnham, MA)
    Kimball Union Academy (Meriden, NH)
    Mansfield, HS (Mansfield, MA)
    Philips Exeter Academy (Exeter, NH)
    
    I could have sworn there was one in CT.  I guess I was wrong.
    
    My hat's off to the folks in San Antonio.  They put together the only
    HS team in Texas.  Talk about having trouble finding games.  They
    hosted last year's National High School Championship and were
    eliminated in the semifinals.
8.510OZARDZ::WASKOMMon May 20 1991 20:0311
    Interesting that (to the best of my knowledge) all the high school
    teams are private schools.  Makes me wonder what the relative insurance
    costs between rugby, gridiron, and hockey are.  Seems to me that all 3
    would attract similar personalities - kids who like physical contact in
    their play.  Certainly equipment costs for rugby are a lot lower, which
    might be a real plus in selling rugby at the high school level.
    
    Any thought of someone starting a college club up at Fitchburg State as
    a way of getting Fitchburg/Leomenster area players in to Worcester?
    
    A&W 
8.511CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 20:1520
    When I was listing the colleges in the area I started typing "Fitchburg
    State" and then realized that I was thinking of Framingham State and
    that Fitchburg doesn't have a team.  That would be a good idea A&W if
    we could get someone up there to do it.  As it is, we're lucky to have
    some of the guys help out at Holy Cross (although I'm not sure if he's
    there anymore), Worcester State, WPI, Clark, and St. Peter Marion.
    
    The kids at St. Peter Marion love the game - enough to come out a
    couple of times a week even though they don't have any games yet.  The
    first practice I saw they had maybe 10 guys.  The last time I saw them
    I think they were approaching 20.  I think they've had controlled
    scrimmages against a couple of the colleges.  I know we had one with
    them a couple of weeks ago.  It's not the kids' desire that is the
    problem.  We're still fighting with the rugby reputation.  The party
    aspect probably isn't that much of a concern at that age since the
    adult supervision is required, but there is that notion that any
    contact sport played without protective gear has to be dangerous.  Any
    athletic director pretty much immediately shuts the door when he/she
    hears rugby.  Judging from some of the responses on the college level,
    I'm sure the football coaches don't like it either.
8.512OZARDZ::WASKOMMon May 20 1991 20:2413
    I'd dearly love to see comparative injury stats for rugby, football,
    ice hockey, soccer, basketball, track and baseball.  I know my son has
    had worse injuries from track than soccer, which was a real surprise to
    me.  I'd like to see them by age-group as well, since I suspect that
    the games as played in high school are very different from the way they
    are played in the adult leagues.
    
    I consider both football and hockey dangerous enough that I was very
    glad my son didn't want to play either one.  But now, I'm trying to
    convince him to at least *consider* rugby as a follow-on, post-high
    school sport.  And not being tremendously successful :-(
    
    A&W
8.513CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 20 1991 20:393
    Well, A&W, I'd suggest using the same tactics that lured me to the
    game, but we are trying to change rugby's image and the drinking age
    has been raised to 21 since I was recruited.
8.514DUFFY::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue May 21 1991 10:589
    	Something that's worked well for us in terms of recruiting is to
    have single women on the team.  :^)  My girlfriend moved from
    Minnesota.
    
    Alison, my high school had a rugby team, although I was not interested
    in the sport at the time.  It's a public high school, but not local to
    here.
    
    Rachael
8.515GENRAL::WADEHey batter batter SUWING batter!Tue May 21 1991 13:576
    
    'Saw
    
    	Shame on you for making light of that guy's fair skin!
    
    Claybone (who uses sunscreen 1E09) ;^)
8.516DUFFY::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue May 21 1991 13:595
    I think he's more then fair-skinned, he might be an albino.  I remember
    him, he's got a great foot and pale, pale hair and skin.   He can kick
    22 to 22 across the field, from what I remember.
    
    Rachael
8.517CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsTue May 21 1991 14:0821
I only saw him from a distance.  I was standing deep on one end of the field,
and he was away.  One of the fellows on the team (one of our constant
jokers) said "They really only let him play on hazy days..."

The next time I had the opportunity to get a good look at him, I was on the
way up in the highlift before our game....

I got mega sun this weekend, and my nose and ears are peeling.  I don't
mind that, cause I could use the tan....


I'm a little more relieved about our 7s tournament tonight...  The team
I'm on has some good speed, so it won't be so apparent that I don't
know what the hail I'll be doing!!!!!  (Never played 7s before...)

Mac, any scrummaging tips for 7s?  Is it more of an exaggerated lean, or
is it still trying to get your butt really low?  AFter that what?  Just
follow, follow, follow????


'Saw
8.518and above all, have fun!CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 21 1991 18:1416
8.519CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsTue May 21 1991 19:0016
Thanks Mac, for the tips.

We've played some "touch" 7s before practice before, but it's more like,
three touches, possession changes, and it's not really intense.  

I'm looking forward to it.  We're wearing cheap t-shirts for uniform shirts,
and I expect they'll be ripped to shreds by the time we're done.  (I guess
that we don't each have enough real rugby shirts to get the teams properly
outfitted. Plus t-shirts will be cooler....)

I will have fun.  I'll just run, run, run as long as I can, and see what
develops 8^)

I'll report tomorrow...

'Saw
8.520DUFFY::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed May 22 1991 10:5621
    Saw,	
    	Although I mostly have played as a back in sevens, my main
    impression of the scrum is it'll be over before you know it.  You just
    hit, and the ball is out.
    	I think it's really important in sevens to play a more dynamic 
    game then 15's.  You have to create opportunities in the way that you
    follow the ball.  Also, it's very important to tackle effectively, to
    take the opponent out of the play.
    	Last night was our last practice in Mass before Nationals.  We'll
    have a final practice Friday in DC.  I would about die of shock if I
    was selected to play this weekend, but I'll be ready as a substitute. 
    Last year I got a big 90 seconds at Nationals, one of our flankers came
    out at the very end of the game.  It was great, I hit one person and
    she had to take a minute.  (It was a clean hit)  Just as an indication
    of the momentum behind this team, we are bringing an entourage of about
    50 people.
    	The women's college Nationals will be at the same tourney.  I'll
    get to see a buddy of mine who plays for the Air Force Academy.  I see
    her once a year, last year she played for Colorado at Nationals.
    
    Rachael
8.521CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsWed May 22 1991 11:5541
8.522OZARDZ::WASKOMWed May 22 1991 16:177
    'Saw -
    
    If you were hooking, who the H E double hockey sticks were the props??? 
    I'm having a little trouble picturing this (if one of them was Joe
    Norton, it gets more reasonable, but still!!)
    
    A&W
8.523CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 22 1991 16:496
    Well, 'Saw, there's only one thing for you to do now.  Put a team
    together and enter the Worcester 7s Tournament to be held on the 2nd
    weekend in August.
    
    See, A&W, you don't have to wait until next fall to get your rugby fix. 
    There's plenty of 7s and other events throughout the summer.
8.524CAM::WAYHWRFC - New England Tournament ChampsWed May 22 1991 17:0033
Our scrums were kind of set up to match height.  The left/right guys were
are normally an 8man and a flanker.  It worked out really well...

Yeah, Mac, we could do that... I'll give it some thought.

I'm still slower than molasses in January on the bottom of Rich Gedman's
shoes though....

Joe Norton (although he hates 7s) is brutal to try and bring down.
I almost had to stop and pee my pants last night when the following occured:


	One of our guys did a little kick through into an open space
	behind most of their guys on the opposite side of the field.

	The only guy near it was Joe Norton.  Joe picks up the ball,
	and our only guy near him, and bearing down on him, is
	Tim Connelly (all 155 pounds of winger going against 270 pound
	Norton).

	Well, Tim lets out this yell "C'mon Joe, bring it to me!"

	I was following up as fast as I can get there, but was almost
	laughing so hard I couldn't run.


Norton's forearm to my face stopped my laughing quick enough, and I held
him till a flanker caught us and we stripped the ball...


Great, great fun.....

'Saw
8.525CAM::WAYSir, it must be CLEARLY so!Fri May 24 1991 13:1437
Well, we finished our 7s tournament last night.  What a fun time.

We came in 3rd place out of four, but we went out with a win.

Our first game was against the Old Boys.  They are tough.  Of course, 
when you consider that they are putting together a 7s team from their
best players while ours are split apart to form the other teams, 
it's no wonder...

Old Boys beat us a couple of tries to one.


Then we played the Gray team.  It was like all of a sudden a light bulb
went on for me, and I knew what I was gonna do finally.  It started off
well.  I was playing the middle of the front line on the kick
and they tried a ten yard squibber to my left.  I took it on a bounce,
headed up field, and saw a wing in front of me.

My mistake was in acting like a forward.  I hit him as hard as I could,
we both went down and a ruck ensued.  In retrospect, I probably should
have tried to juke (ever see Rich Gedman juke???) and made a pass.

Nevertheless we retained possession.

The rest of the game, we all played really, really well.  We were supporting
each other, and we won by like 8 or 10 points.

The final game was the Old Boys against the Blue team, and the Blue team
won, but it was tied at half time.


The best part is that I think we'll be playing 7s all summer on Wednesday
nights!


'Saw (who Can't wait for 15s in the fall!!!!!)

8.526Women's National's SummaryMAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue May 28 1991 14:0931
    	Well, this will have to be really brief for the moment, but here's
    what happened.
    
    	Our slogan for the weekend was "There is no B-side, there's just
    more of us".
    
    Women's nationals are single elimination, with 8 teams participating, 2
    from each territory.
    
    We played the Bay Area SheHawks, (BASH) in the first game.  Beat them
    16-3.
    
    We (I played in this one) played New Orleans in the semifinals, beat
    them 38-6.
    
    We played Florida State University (not really a college team, just
    gets some money from there) in the finals, beat them 19-0 to become the
    1991 National Champs.  That's our fifth time to win, giving Beantown
    the record there with 5 National Championships. (FSU has 4, and
    Madison, Belmont, BASH, and Minnesota each have 1)
    
    Something we are proud of is that in the semifinals, we played 11
    players who hadn't played in the first match.  To be able to do that
    demonstrates the depth of the team.
    
    The games were all extremely tough, which made us even happier  with
    the resulting scores.  Any one of those teams could have beaten us if
    we had not played our guts out.  FSU placed second,(obviously), New
    Orleans placed third, and BASH was fifth (I think)
    
    Rachael
8.527DASXPS::TIMMONSI'm a Pepere!Tue May 28 1991 15:034
    Hey, Rachael, congrats on winning the national title!  That's some
    accomplishment.
    
    Lee
8.528CAM::WAYSir, it must be CLEARLY so!Tue May 28 1991 16:1718
Congrats, Racheal, sincerely!!!!

Only another rugger could appreciate the commitment and determination
from ALL the players on your side that's necessary to bring home the 
Championship.

All the rucking, mauling, running, sprints, lifting, $$$, time, the
agony of those bruises and muscles on Sunday mornings...  It must
SURELY make it all worth while now.

(Someday, hopefully, I'll know the feeling, cause the Wanderers will do
it all....)


Enjoy, and I hope you had some good champagne!


'Saw
8.529CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 28 1991 18:261
    That's fantastic, Rachael!  Congratulations!
8.530MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed May 29 1991 10:5915
    Thanks all for congratulations.
    
    Actually, I had a beer and a shot of tequila, and lots of water.  I had
    a glass of champagne in front of me at some point, but I forgot about
    it and someone else drank it.
    
    We focused all season on our first game.  We knew it would be against
    one of the California teams, and about 4 weeks before we knew it would
    be BASH.  The game was incredibly hard fought, one of our players went
    out of the game, and five of theirs!  
    
    Mac, I got at least 4 lineouts in my game, three of theirs and one
    thrown to me.  What a great time to get better at those!
    
    Rachael
8.531CAM::WAYThe last full measure of devotion...Wed May 29 1991 11:5618
Gawd, Rachael, I've got this woodie just thinkin' about what it must be
like to be National Champs.

I know how nuts we went when we won the tournament.  If we could do it, 
go all the way, I think it would eclipse just about anything I've known....

Super on the lineouts.

btw, I've got a picture someone took of me getting toasted in a lineout
by a guy from Worcester.  (Damn prop should have taken him outta the 
play 8^)).  The coolest thing though was that all this time I thought I
was the Bill Laimbeer of lineouts -- you know, feet an inch off the ground.
Well, I got some good air on that jump... just didn't get the damn ball....


Congrats again!

'Saw
8.533MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed May 29 1991 16:2217
    'Saw, it's been six and a half years that I've been playing rugby,
    about five and a half of which I've been living to play rugby.  In a
    way, that's not much, but when you consider that I'm only 24, that's
    much of my adult life.  
    	
    When the final whistle blew on Sunday, a lot of our players were kind
    of crying, but not in a sad way.  It was just so tremendous.  Ten of
    the players on the field had never played with Beantown when they won
    the previous four times...
    
    I have to go, work calls...
    
    Hawk, you might want to rethink that offer unless you're into being
    wrapped up in electrical tape and being erotically barfed on.  But I
    appreciate your generosity and sincerity as always.
    
    Rachael
8.535Who???CUBIC7::DIGGINSThirst N'Howl Roolz!Wed May 29 1991 16:424
Hawk, ifn your all wrapped up in electrical tape, who will apply the 
laquer?????????????

Enquiring minds etc..
8.536CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Wed May 29 1991 17:2810
The secret of taping is the skill in which it's applied.  Remember, taping
in rugby is not to prevent, but to protect.

Therefore, one would assume, that if the Hawkster is properly rugby-taped,
he'd still have enough mobility to lacquer on his own....

'Saw

PS  (because on a serious note, while you might tape your ears to protect
     them, you don't want the tape to be so tight you get a wicked headache...)
8.538CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu May 30 1991 11:1443
Is the Spring rugby season officially over?

That's a good question.  I'm finding that the spring season doesn't really
"end" like our fall season does.  At least not in this area.

The Wanderers have one more commitment, which is the Ct Cup this weekend.
Worcester is involved with it also.  It'll be somewhat anticlimactic, after
achieving our season-long goal of winning the NE Tournament, even if we
win the whole thing.  It's been a great spring.

But, spring just kinda slides into summer with rugby in these parts.

All summer long you've got 7s tournaments.  Worcester has theirs in August,
I believe Hartford does its long running Yahoo 7s sometime in July.

For 15s there's the Mad River tournament in Vermont on July 6,7.

For ME the season is officially over.  I've got a TON of work to do over the
summer.  Already started it in fact, with three mile runs, as many situps
as I can stand, hyperextensions of the back, and soon I'll be trying to
do power sets after my runs (pushups, situps, star-jumps, squat thrusts).
Friday night, I'm going to check out the gym and plunk down some $$$ to join.

I'll go to practice tonight, and if the team plays 7s on a regular basis
during the week, I'll do that too....


Looking back on the spring, from February 12 when we started on a sleeting
night in the parking lot behind Bulkely School, until today, it's been a
satisfying spring on a team note.  On a personal note, I SUCKED.  But hey, 
getting is shape is something I can do something about.  The team 
accomplished all their goals.

Last spring was disastrous.  The team refers to it as the Bridesmaid spring,
because every tournament we lost in the finals (it even carried as far
as Monmouth last August).  But they hired on Count as the coach, and he
has worked wonders, and it all started to pay off this spring.  

We've yet to win against Old Blue though 8^(


later,
'Saw
8.539I might may more if'n it's in focusCST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Thu May 30 1991 13:228
    'Saw,
    	You coming up this weekend to Mikey's house?  I'd pay 
    a dollar to see the picture of the guy doin' you in!!!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.540CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu May 30 1991 14:2616
I'll try to make it.

I remember the play well, since it was my only selected game at 2nd row,
and with the other jumper being 6'4", it was the only time all day my
number was called.

The tightheadprop behind me should have been driving Worcester's jumper
away.  He didn't, and while we both have good height, he's got the ball
and I don't.  (He took a page out of MY notebook and barged ME 8^))

I'll try to remember to bring it along.....


'Saw

PS  It's in excellent focus....
8.541OK then, mebbe I'll up it to a buck 'seven ;^>CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Thu May 30 1991 16:261
    
8.542it's just keeps going and going and going...CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 30 1991 16:3915
    Rugby has become a 3 season sport.  The number of 7s tournaments that
    take place across the US is amazing.  Off the top of my head, here is a
    sampling of the New England/New York Summer Calendar:
    
    June 1	Connecticut Cup		Fairfield, CT
    		Old Man in the Mountain	Franconia, NH
    	 8	WRFC Alumni Game	Worcester, MA
         15	Beacon Hill 7s*		Boston, MA
    		Rockaway 7s		Rockaway, NY
    July 21	Ten Good Men		Acton, MA
         27(?)	Hartford 7s		Hartford, CT
    Aug  3&4	Can-Am Tourny		Saranac Lake, NY
         10	Worcester 7s		Worcester, MA
    
    * Qualifier for National Championship
8.543CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu May 30 1991 18:1719
I take it Ten Good Men is a tens tourney?

Sounds like it might be fun...  I'll have to keep my ears open.


I have got the neatest poster in my cube advertising this years
Beacon Hill 7s.  It's got a bunch of guys piled up, with one on his
haid (you can see him upside down looking back at the camera -- GREAT shot)
and the caption is "More PileUps than the Southeast Expressway".....

Hartford 7s is what we call the Yahoo 7s, because originally, the
West Hartford Yahoos (they of the pink  jersies) were involved and/or
ran it.

The Yahoos merged with the Wanderers, and now the only trace of pink left
is pink strip on the Hobos jersey, remembering that their roots came from
the Yahoos also....

'Saw
8.544CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 30 1991 18:2414
    Yup, the 10 Good Men Tournament is 10-aside rugby.  10 players/team (7
    backs, 3 forwards) and 10 minute halves.  It is always held on the
    hottest Sunday of the year.  There is more rucking and mauling than in
    7s with the addition of 3 players.  More true forwards come out for
    this tournament.  Now that I'm back in Mass., I've been asked to again
    organize a team of WPI alumni to compete in the 10 Good Men and
    Worcester 7s.  The 10 Good Men is a fun tournament (especially since it
    brings together guys I only see occasionally).  That weekend is
    promising to be alot of fun.  Saturday is the 5th Annual Worcester
    Rugby Golf Tournament.
    
    I knew the Hartford 7s tournament used to be run by the now-defunct
    West Hartford Yahoos.  I didn't realize that Hartford retained the
    original tournament monicker.
8.545Another Wanderer to be capped.... CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Fri May 31 1991 12:0026
Yup, the t-shirt I got from last year's tourney says 1990 Yahoo 7s....


Now, I've got some GREAT GREAT news!

I found out last night that our flyhalf Glen Judge has been selected to play
fly-half for the Eagles-Canada game one week from Saturday in Calgary.

That's our second Eagle, which is pretty good for an East Coast team.
Glen had a very good showing in the InterTerritorial Tournament, where the
ERU (Eastern Rugby Union) won, beating the other three territorial unions.

What bodes well for Glen is that he was selected OVER Mike De Jong, the
fellow who played fly-half in Hartford against Scotland.  Also, this close
to the World Cup, it could very well be that he'll get selected for that
as well....

Canada will be tough.  They beat Scotland 24-19, so they are up and psyched
for this match.


It sure will be nice seeing a player listed on the Eagles side with the 
club listing Hartford Wanderers....


'Saw
8.546CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 31 1991 19:258
8.547MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jun 03 1991 10:5224
    Mac
    	Let me know how to get Rugby magazine, please...  I'd like to 
    get the women's world cup issue if possible, and also hope that
    Nationals will be covered in the next issue.
    	I used to subscribe many moons ago, but it's been ages.

    'Saw, congratulation on your player being selected for the eagles.  I
    know what you mean, we're very proud of our eagles.

    	I just found out that our coach, after winning world cup and
    decisively winning nationals, was not asked to coach the eagles next
    year.  Interesting politics there, but it'll probably be better for him
    as he has a brand new baby.  I think there's some tension between the
    ERU and the Pacific RU.  The majority of the eagles come from either
    coast.
    	I also found out that a decision has been made to move Nationals
    up two weeks to accommodate the colleges, as the normal time is after
    they are through.  But that's really stupid, as they'll be just before
    or in finals two weeks earlier.  Besides which, why should they align
    the club Nationals and cut two weeks off our shorter season for that,
    when it makes more sense to align the men's and women's colleges?
    Dumb, dumb, dumb.

    Rachael
8.548CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 12:0296
Well, Glen leaves Wednesday for Calgary, where the test will be held.
He's excited, as we all are.


Someone was telling me that a lot of the Eagles who play for OMBAC are 
"rugby whores" who move around a lot.  In other words, if OMBAC looks like
they are gonna be good this year, Viz and Higgins and others will move to
that club.  Then if it looks like Old Blue (CA) will be good, they go
there.  Don't know how true it is....


Rugby Magazine.  Rachael, if I get time, I'll try to copy the article and
interoffice mail it to you.

Mac, check out the article on the Men's Final Four.  From what I hear,
our new flanker Cahal Grennon got some good press.  He was playing with
the Dallas Harlequins.  He played against you in the second game on Saturday.


The Connecticut Cup was interesting.  Hartford started early against
Rockaway.  Interestingly enough, one of our players was injured during
warmups.  Doc was propping in lineout practice, when Chuck "The Texas Elbow"
Curtis, caught him in the eye with a very boney elbow.  Doc got cut and
played the rest of the day like that.

We manhandled Rockaway, with a BEAUTIFUL try by Paul McCloskey opening
the scoring.  Paul took the ball at our 22 meter line with one man to
beat.  Dennis Harrington, the outside center had faked the guy inside, 
pitched to Paul, who turned on the afterburners.  One Rockaway player
had the angle on him at about the 50, but Paul stuttered stepped him, 
and burned him down the sidelines.

Our second game was against Worcester.  Worcester played well, with 
good rucking, but I felt Hartford had the edge in overall play.  
I must say that Worcester prevented our backs from making the gain line
a lot, so we had to use up and unders and kicks to open space a lot.

Our third game was against New Haven.  They were in the other bracket
and were well rested, since the third team in their bracket, New  York
Irish, didn't show.  They hadn't played since 10am.

New Haven got ahead of us on a try off a mental error.   We tied it,
and early in the second half, they went back ahead, 12-6.  Midway
through the second half, we put up a penalty kick to cut their lead
12-9.   As time was running down (with about 2 minutes left) it seemed
that New Haven would beat us for the first time, and end our drive
to the finals.

Suddenly, we were awarded a penalty.  Matt Miller put the kick wide
left, and the New Haven player lazily went after the ball (still in the
try zone, still live).  The ball bounced, but instead of bouncing out
the end of the zone, it bounced over the player's head back toward the
field of play.  He quickly turned, but knocked on as he tryed to grab
it to down it.  

The ball lay on the ground for what seemed an enternity.  The New
Haven player dove for it, and just at the same time, Dennis Harrington,
who'd smartly been following up the play, dove for it two.

According to Dennis, the New Haven player, and he, touched the ball
at the same time, the New Haven guy with hands on either side, Dennis
with his hand on top.  

In the most controversial call of the entire Cup, the ref awarded the try.
Matt Miller converted, and it was 15-12.  We won two minutes later.


Things got a bit ugly after the game, with one of the New Haven guys pushing
the ref, but I don't know what came of it...

We were in the finals against White Plains, who we'd beaten last fall.
They were rested, also getting a bye against White Plains.  In addition
they brought about 35 guys to the match, and had fresh meat on the pitch.

Quite simply they annihilated us, a lot to nothing.  The fact that they
had Gary Lambert, a former Eagle, on the pitch, was only part of it.
Our guys were just too tired.  (Mac, the prop you played against almost
passed out at halftime...)


In retrospect, a lot of our players thought that we should  have brought
more players, since it seems we blow our load getting to the finals and
half nothing left.  I wasn't selected, but I could have handled the 
Rockaway game, thus having one prop be fresher for the final....  

At any rate, it was a good day of rugby for Hartford.  We played excellent
rugby, out-rucking everyone but White Plains.  Cahal has been a nice
addition to our club.  We had only one injury, albeit a bad one.
Bob Bates broke his wrist in the first half of the Rockaway game....tough
luck for him....


No more rugby until Mad River, unless I play 7s on Wed nites.....


'Saw
8.549"Rugby"CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 03 1991 12:508
    Here is the address to subscribe to "Rugby."  You can also order back
    issue from them.  I don't remember what the yearly subscription fee is.
    
    Rugby Press Ltd.
    2350 Broadway
    New York, NY 10024
    (212) 787-1160
    FAX - (212) 595-0934
8.550Connecticut Cup ReportCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 03 1991 13:0844
    As 'Saw said, Worcester made the trip to Statford, CT to play in the
    annual Connecticut Cup Tournament hosted by the Fairfield County
    Yankees.  The Yanks were very accomodating as they scheduled our first
    match for a 12:00 kickoff since we had to travel 3 hours.  We ended up
    in the bracket with Hartford and Rockaway (NY).  Sixteen WRFC players
    made the trip representing all 3 of Worcester's sides and included a
    player who played his first match ever.  The games in the preliminary
    rounds were composed of 20 minute halves.  The semi-finals were
    lengthened to 25 minute halves.
    
    Our first match pitted us against Rockaway who had already lost to
    Hartford.  Rockaway played in their typical scrappy style.  The match
    was very close throughout the first half with Worcester having a slight
    advantage.  We were able to open it up in the second half though and
    really took control of the game.  The final score was something like
    21-7.
    
    About a half hour later, Worcester faced off against Hartford minus 2
    players from the first match (putting us down to 14 players for the
    rest of the day).  Our captain left the game with a torn ear, and one
    of the props had to return to Worcester to attend his sister's
    graduation.  We picked up a player from Rockaway to round out the side. 
    As 'Saw said, the match was pretty close.  Worcester played pretty good
    defense, but Hartford was able to capitalize on overload situations and
    some good tactical kicking.  Hartford kept Worcester from ever mounting
    a sustained attack.  The final score was 15-0, I think.  The Wanderers
    closed out the scoring with a drop goal from 35+ yards out ('Saw, why
    is it that Howie always seems to have his best games against WRFC?).
    
    Because of the number of points scored by Worcester against Rockaway,
    we earned the wild card slot in the semi-finals.  This pitted us
    against White Plains, a first division club from the Met-NY Union.  I
    didn't realize until after the match that ex-Eagle Gary Lambert was
    playing for them.  White Plains went up early with 2 tries in the first
    5 minutes.  That woke us up a bit, and we played them pretty tough from
    there on out, but the heat and 2 previous matches really took their
    toll.  White Plains took us very seriously as they put out pretty much
    the same side they played in the finals in the first half.  After they
    racked up a comfortable lead, they made wholesale substitutions in the
    second half.  I think the final was something like 28-0.
    
    Despite going 1-2, it was a good day.  Everyone who made the trip
    enjoyed themselves and felt proud of their efforts.  We proved the old
    adage "In rugby there are no winners, only survivors".
8.551CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 14:2028
I believe a year's subscription to Rugby Magazine is $26 for 11 issues.

They have an excellent 7s issue, and the yearly calendar....


Mac, about Howie, who can tell?  With the exception of the try conversions,
he scored all the points against  you guys.  He is an excellent player, as he
represented the USA in the Maccabiah games several years ago.

The biggest thing, as I said before, that WRFC did to the Wanderers was that
you prevented our backs from making the gain line a lot.  Our loose forwards
had to make up for a lot of that (but we have some really good ones in
Bob Hess, Cahal Grennon and Jerry Rowan).  It wasn't until our backs
started kicking that we started to open things up.


I believe the difference between White Plains on Saturday and White Plains
last fall was that their back line suddenly got good 8^)


'Saw

PS  All in all it was a really nice day, although it was spoiled by the 
    NY Irish stiffing the tournament.  Hartford and Worcester would have
    done better against White Plains if they'd had to play the full compliment
    of games.

    I think next year, everyone should stiff the NY Irish.....
8.552CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 15:3216
Had a chance to watch Rugby World the other evening on NESN.

I caught a 7s game from the Hong Kong 7s (the most prestigious 7s tourney
in the world.  I believe the US won the plate this year).

Anyway, the match was between Scotland and Sri Lanka, with Scotland prevailing
22-6.  Tony Stanger, the wing who did so much damage to the Eagles in Hartford,
scored a try and set up another.  Mark Chalmers was also playing.

After that they showed Rugby League.  I'm sorry, but I think that really
despoils what rugby is all about.  I watched it for a while, thought it to
be horrendously boring and cheap, and then turned it off....

My apologies to people who like League, but once was enough for me.....

'Saw
8.553CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 03 1991 15:4518
8.554CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 15:5612
Boy, I really messed up there.  Guess I have to stop drinking beer WHILE
I watch rugby....

I guess I was thinking that we made the Plate final instead of winning it..
You know what I meant 8^)


Yeah, League was weird.  It's too commercial, the uniforms suck, and there's
no rucking...  I didn't like it...


'Saw
8.555A chance for you guys to "inform"LEAF::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is walking!!Mon Jun 03 1991 16:346
OK, I'll be the one to ask...

What is the difference between League and Union Rugby?  Is league basically a
lower version, or a rival or what?  

=Bob=
8.556Union vs LeagueCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 03 1991 16:4213
8.557CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 17:1932
From what I gathered the other evening:

	AS Mac said, League is professional.  The uniforms are emblazoned with
	all sorts of advertising.

	There are 13 players, and they are allowed to wear shoulders pads, but
	they aren't pads like our football players, more like some soft stuff	
	on a harness.

	Outside of your attacking 22 meter line (ie THEIR 22 meter line)
	you are allowed four "downs".  That is, when the man is tackled
	you must allow him up, and he will then heel the ball back to
	the scrum half.  Play continues.

	If you get inside the 22 meter line of your opponent, you will
	get four more downs.

	There are no lineouts.  Play is restarted with a scrummage opposite
	where the ball went out.

	Scoring is slightly different.  A penalty kick is only worth 2 points,
	instead of 3.  All other scores are the same.


To me, it seems like a prostitution of a great game.  For instance, when
Wayne Shelford, the famous All-Black, (Mac, I *think* it was Shelford, may
be wrong) went League, there was an uproar.  It was as big a scandal in 
New Zealand as Watergate was here....well *almost* as big...

Most people I know either like Union or League, but not both.....

'Saw
8.558BDWISR::WASKOMMon Jun 03 1991 17:2117
    I was going to ask the same question.  Thanks for the answer.  If
    anyone can supply more info on differences, I'd appreciate it.  One
    thing on the Rugby World show, it looked like the League players had
    some sort of shoulder padding under the uni shirts.  (And I agree with
    'Saw, the unis are pretty poor.)
    
    ON the Conn. Cup tournament comments.  Somehow, it doesn't seem quite
    "cricket" that a team can win while playing fewer matches because of
    teams failing to show.  I'm not surprised that NY Irish was the one to
    do that -- aren't they the team that stiffed the Wanderers this spring,
    and only brought one side?  As I recall, the games that day were pretty
    ugly, too.  (I wonder how many of them were up at Foxboro that night,
    instead of playing rugby as they'd committed to do?)  I don't have an
    answer as to what you do when it happens, you understand, just that it
    isn't fair.  (I know, I know, so who said life was fair?)
    
    A&W
8.559CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 17:2614
Yup, the Irish were the team that stiffed us.

In a way it didn't matter though.  White Plains was rolling over everything
that day.  If we had our A side playing, and they were fresh, it would have
been a GOOD contest.  But they had their A's (fresh) against our Bs (tired)
so it was a route.

We're still damned proud of our season....

As for me, I'm deep into summer fitness.  It's gonna be a long, hot one,
but hopefully by the time "boot camp" opens in August, things will be
better for me....

'Saw
8.560CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 03 1991 19:2615
In my mind, the difference between Union and League is the difference between
having a girlfriend who likes you and really wants you and takes care of
you (ie Union) and having to go out and buy the same "affection"  (League).

When you buy it, it's cheap and tawdry, and really only a shell of the real
thing.  It looks like it might be what you want, but when it's done you
feel cheapened for it.  

I had this tremendous urge to take a shower and break out a Do-It-Yourself
AIDS test after watching league.....


(of course, many 8^))

'Saw
8.561Rugby NewsCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jun 04 1991 12:4324
    Here is some info I picked up while reading through the latest issue of
    "Rugby".
    
    The reason the Rugby TV show on NESN is showing rugby league was
    explained.  Apparently the producer of the show was down in Australia
    talking to the rugby powers that be about getting footage for the show. 
    The Aussie officials agreed to provide him footage for $20/second! 
    Later on in his trip he saw a commercial for rugby leage featuring Tina
    Turner on the telly.  He went to the RL folks and they just gave him
    all the footage he wanted.
    
    Rumors are flying that South Africa will be allowed to tour Australia
    and the UK in 1992 and Australia again in 1993.  There is also a push
    going on to allow SA to host the 1995 World Cup.  In fact, Australia is
    lobbying New Zealand to drop their bid for the event and throw their
    support to SA.  This is all in response to SA's moves to abolish
    apartheid and is contingent on the two SA rugby organizations, SA Rugby
    Board (primarily white) and SA Rugby Union (primarily black) merging by
    October of this year.  In fact, the decision on where the next World
    Cup will take place is being held off until after this year's WC, which
    coincidentally (?) will also be after the deadline for the merger of
    SA's two governing rugby bodies.  There is also a possiblity of an
    annual Southern Hemisphere 5 Nations Chamionship tournament featuring
    New Zealand, South Africa, Australia, Argentina and Fiji.
8.562MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jun 05 1991 10:5721
8.563CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Wed Jun 05 1991 11:5435
On the joke, Rachael, I felt like I'd been with a prostitute after watching
League.  I felt dirty, unclean, and like I hadn't upheld the pristine 
virtues of our game ;^)

On a serious note, I think it's a sin to take money for something that's
so much fun to begin with...

On the interoffice, I'd heard that the old "mail room inspection" thing
was a scam.  First off, it'd be much less cost effective than just letting
the mail go through.  (But the way THIS company works...what else is new 8^))
If you get a bunch of C code from me dealing with device servers or
communications, look inside it.....8^)

On vacation:

	Well, I've been pounding the pavement this week, and am in
	full swing with the hi-carb, lo-fat, let-protein-take-care-of-itself
	diet.

	Been putting in 3 a day, and am starting to feel good.

	I can feel the rugby withdrawal, however, and can't wait for fall
	workouts to start (assuming i'm in MUCH better shape).  Around
	here there's an excitement about the fall season, and I hope I 
	can last until it's time to put the needle back in my arm.

	This summer is gonna be hot, but what better to melt the pounds
	away.  Plus, after playing 7s a few weeks ago, which vastly improved
	my ball handling and idea of what's going on, I can't wait for the 
	first time I'm last to the ruck, because I wanna take the ball out
	the weak side, and see if I can't find some "wing" meat to annihilate...


More later,
'Saw
8.564CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Wed Jun 05 1991 11:5813
Some important rugby dates for any of you who'd like to see some:


JUNE:

	8	Stroh's 7s		Bethlehem PA
	8	Dead Ant's Tourney	Batavia NY
	8	Eastern Counties 7s	Wrightsvill Beach, NC
	14-16	USARFU College 
		  All-Star Championship Boston MA
	15	Beacon Hill 7s		Columus Park, South Boston, MA
	15 	Rockaway 7s		Rockaway Beach, NY
	22	Seattle 7s		Seattle WA
8.565Rugby on NESNCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jun 05 1991 12:035
    The rugby video magazine is being shown on NESN on Friday nights at
    9:00 or 9:30.  Friday night's show is repeated on Sunday afternoon at
    5.  There are 7 shows (each repeated once) in all.  The shows are being
    broadcast on all of the Prime Sports affiliates like MSG and HSE. 
    Check your local listings for details.
8.566CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Wed Jun 05 1991 12:306
Mac, 

Have you heard anything about coveage of the US-Canada game?  I've got
to mak a tape of that one.....

'Saw
8.567MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jun 05 1991 12:4729
    	Thanks for the explanation.  That was close, but with completely
    different impact, to the only things I could figure.  
    	
    	'Saw, you are going to embarass me into working out if you're not
    careful.  I'm having a hard time running because I have a new job and
    these people tend to get on a roll at about 10am, which means no
    lunch-run.  Or things happen like yesterday, where we went to someone's
    house to work.  I'm trying to get psyched to run today, but it's  cold
    and rainy and I dont have any warm clothes.  Sometimes I'm such a
    wimp...  Last night I had to go to sleep more then anything else, but
    tonight I'm going to lift a bit.  I want to mostly work bench,
    military, curls, standing rows, good-morning's, squats, and lunges this
    summer.  Not necesarily for scientific reasons, I just happen to like
    those best.  Along with pullups and dips. 
    
    struct team
    {
    	char player1[] = "loosehead"
    	char player2[] = "hooker"
    	.
    	.
    	.
    
    };
    
    	It could be a lot of lines of C to describe World Cup.  
    
    	
    Rachael                           
8.568CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Wed Jun 05 1991 13:2950
>    	'Saw, you are going to embarass me into working out if you're not
>    careful.  I'm having a hard time running because I have a new job and
>    these people tend to get on a roll at about 10am, which means no
>    lunch-run.  Or things happen like yesterday, where we went to someone's
>    house to work.  I'm trying to get psyched to run today, but it's  cold
>    and rainy and I dont have any warm clothes.  Sometimes I'm such a
>    wimp...  Last night I had to go to sleep more then anything else, but
>    tonight I'm going to lift a bit.  I want to mostly work bench,
>    military, curls, standing rows, good-morning's, squats, and lunges this
>    summer.  Not necesarily for scientific reasons, I just happen to like
>    those best.  Along with pullups and dips. 


Where are you at?  Today it's cloudy and cool here....

What are "good-morning's"?  

Pullups.  That is one thing I can't do.  Never have been able to.  Perhaps
a consequence of having a prop butt....8^)

A guy on the team told me that dead lifts are GREAT for props, but he cautioned
me big time to start with a light weight.  I've got to get to the gym to sign
up one night this week....


The dedication is starting to come.  I started last night, and the first
half mile SUCKED.  So, I figured I'd wimp and just do 2.  Well, the last
half I was feeling pretty good, so I added the third mile by running half
a mile past the house and coming back.  Afterwards, I felt much better.
I think I really dislike the first half mile in any run I do......


As to the C code, just dig a few pages down in the listings and there you'll
find the xerox copies I'm sending.  (No mail clerk is gonna dig into
a stack of C code, I'm sure.)

If that doesn't work, I'll just do a bunch of fprintf's, and you can compile
it, run it, and have it in a file 8^)


Oh yeah, I've lost some weight this week too.....8^) 8^) 8^)

'Saw

PS  I figure if I get down to 215, I'm where I was last fall, so I should
    be able to get around really well.
    If I can get down to 205, I should REALLY be able to fly, but that's
    starting to get light for a prop, so I should probably move to loosehead...

    Decisions, decisions!!!!!!!
8.569CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jun 05 1991 18:057
8.570MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jun 06 1991 10:5329
    Well, 'Saw, due in no small part to your inspirational writings, I was
    a big stud yesterday.  I ran 4.5 miles at pace during lunch, then went
    home and lifted.  Bench, military, squats, good mornings, and some
    crunches.  For Good Mornings you put the  bar with whatever weight you
    want on your shoulders, about where you have it for a squat.  Then you
    stick your butt out, bend your knees a little and bend over at the
    waist till your back is about parallel to the ground.  Keep looking up.
    It's a back exercise.  I usually do it with relatively light weight
    (just under a third of my weight, but those proportions can vary a lot
    between men and women) and higher rep's, as I am shy about hurting my back.
    
    	I vote with Keith on squatting vs dead lifts.  I think you could
    do both, but I think squats would do a whole lot more for you. 
    (Remember, I propped for a year and a half in a past life) I think dead
    lifts give a limited range of motion, working less muscles for the
    amount of time they take.  Be careful if you do them, though, make sure
    you do them right or you can really strain your back.  (By the way,
    squats could do a fair amount for your speed, that's why I'm going to
    do them.)
    
    	I can do about 5 or 6 pullups, I've been working them on and off
    for a long time.  I can only do them if I do them first, though.  The
    best time is after running, as my arms are warmed up but not tired.
    		
    	As for weight, I finally got my team to pretend to believe I weigh
    165lbs.  If they knew what I really weigh, they'd probably make me
    hook, so I lie about it. 
    
    Rachael, the huge 165lb flanker.
8.571CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 06 1991 12:0623
Way to go Rachael!

I got home last night, said, no way am I running.  But, as soon as I 
got in the door, I said, I'd better run.

So, I got into gear, and out the door.  I did a fast (for me) 2.0, but because
I felt guilty about not doing 3.0, I sprinted up all the hills except the
first one.  Guess you could say I did some fartlek instead of a real run...

Tomorrow night, I go to sign up at the gym.  First week or so I'm going
to take it easy.  But I'll work squats this summer, bench press, curls,
military and behind the neck press.  Then I'll do some nautilus machines
too, I guess.....

Hopefully I can play some 7s this summer.  The club will send out a letter
on when (I think Wednesday nights) and where we'll meet....


If you really want some extra weight, I'll trade you 8^)  I've got
a good 15 pounds I could give ya!!!!!


'Saw
8.572BDWISR::WASKOMThu Jun 06 1991 13:1211
    Glad to see Frank's Fitness Forum is in full swing.  I'm expecting
    regular reports in here, you know, so it doesn't start off well and
    come to a crashing halt in the heat and humidity of August :-) :-)
    
    This end of the Fitness Forum, believe it or not, needs help with the
    eating end of things.  As in, I don't, and I need to.  :-)  (I know,
    you should all have my problems.)  There's a lot of single folks in
    this file, I know.  I hate eating by myself, fixing food for just me,
    etc., etc.  Any great, quick, nutritious things *you* like to eat?
    
    A&W 
8.573CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 06 1991 13:4833
No problem with the heat and humidity of August, for a couple of reasons.

First, I can deal with the heat and humidity.  I might bitch, but I'd
much rather be sweating my 'nads off on a run, than freezing them off.

Second, practice starts again in mid-August.  Coach Mengele, uh, er, Count,
gave us a fitness thing for over the summer.  He got it out of an
international rugby book.  (Geez, they expect props to run 3 miles in 
under 24:30 on the first day!).  Anyway, I'm just gonna do what I need to
do to get in shape:  run, lose weight, lift weights.....

As to eating, I follow (or try to) a hi-carb, lo-fat, protein takes care of
itself diet.   What I usually do when I'm in serious weight loss mode is
I eat really light for a couple of days, running each day.  Lunch is light -
a salad, supper is light (either salad, cottage cheese, whatever).  
After three or four days of that, I can feel my body is right on the line
when I run.  That fourth day my legs will hurt, I'm really sluggish in my
run.  At that point I'm right where I want to be.  That night, I eat 
really well, either pasta, or maybe chicken done on the grill.  

Now, if I combine that with lifting, I'll probably be eating a little more
than usual...

The stuff you have to watch out for is fast food, because that's notoriously
bad for you.  And also, no beer.  Excluding the weekend (when I'll have a beer
or so but it's cut way back), I have one beer on Friday nights, IF I've lost
weight during the week....


Tonight's activity is going to Bob's to pick up a new pair of New Balance.
After a season of 230+ pounds landing on them, my old ones are shot....

'Saw
8.575CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 06 1991 16:4414
Hawk, that was tooooooo funny!

Actually, I'm rewriting Hitler's Mien Kampf, because mein kampf will be
this summer fitness plan 8^)

I haven't been to the gym yet to check out the chicks, but I figure as
long as I have to lift weights, sweat and ache, I ought to at least do
it someplace where the scenery is good....

Right?

RIGHT!

'Saw
8.578CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Fri Jun 07 1991 13:4315
And Hawk, I'm not picking up chicks at the health club.

I'm being VERY dedicated.  I have some definite goals for this rugby
season, and the only way I'm going to achieve those levels is by fitness,
commitment and dedication.

The chicks will be trying to pick me up after the rugby season I'm planning
on having.

The saying is true:  "Chicks dig us 'cause we play rugby!"


8^)

'Saw
8.579I thot it was 'cuz a the "leather balls"...! 8^}SOFBAS::TRINWARDMaker of fine scrap-paper since 1949Fri Jun 07 1991 13:470
8.580MAY24::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jun 07 1991 14:075
    re -.1 
    
    Absolutely not.  It's cause we play rugby.
    
    Rachael
8.581CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jun 07 1991 16:556
    A&W, pick up a copy of "Athlete's Kitchen".  The majority of the
    recipes are geared for the athlete on the go.  The author (Nancy
    Clark?) is well versed in sports nutrition and realizes that today's
    amateur athletes are in a real time bind trying to fit training
    schedules into work and family schedules and often get into the "too
    busy to cook" mindset.
8.582Now back to clowing around in the conference...TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is walking!!Fri Jun 07 1991 18:0915
RE: Saw's fitness plans

Couple of things from a guy who lost 30 lbs a few years ago (and who is only 
5'7", so 30 lbs was a lot).

Make sure you get enough of the _right_ kind of food.  If you are exercising 
heavily, pump up the carbs.  A salad for lunch or dinner might not cut it, where
as a baked potato and a salad might.

Water, water, water.  Even if it is not warm out, it is really important.

Also, I was at a Bob's last time I was in Conn., and the runnng shoes are a 
little less expensive from the mail order places in the back of running mags.

=Bob=
8.583FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Jun 07 1991 18:116
    The Hartford at Mystic River game was mentioned elsewhere in this
    conference.  Where does Mystic River play its home games?  Looks like
    the game at Mystic is the only Hartford game I can go to conveniently
    in the Fall.
    
    John
8.584CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Fri Jun 07 1991 18:4832
Re Bob:

	I hear ya dude.  I've been eating right all week.  The official
	weight loss was only two pounds, but part of that could have to
	do with the big lunch I had yesterday.

	I do need to drink more water, which I have done in the past.  
	If I can get up to a gallon, or a gallon and a half a day, I'll
	be doing alright.

	I've cut out beer (except my reward this evening).

	What I usually do in terms of energy is I let my body deplete for
	a couple of days.  I don't undereat, but I let my body tell me
	when it's ready to be fueled.  Of course, that used to work really
	well when I was just running.  With lifting, I'll have to be more
	conscious of that.

	Also take my vitamins every day.

	And I've been eating bananas like there's no tomorrow....


Re John:

	Sorry, I don't know where Mystic plays their homes games.  We had
	them at home last fall.  Perhaps Mac knows where.

	At any rate, the Thursday before the game, I'll put directions
	in here like usual....

'Saw
8.585CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jun 07 1991 18:502
    Sorry, can't help you with Mystic River.  I've never played them.  A&W
    might know.
8.586BUDDUA::WASKOMSat Jun 08 1991 15:4313
    John -
    
    Mystic River plays there home games at the field we all met at last
    fall for the tournament.  Up there in Malden.  I remember how to get
    there, by following my nose, but no longer have the directions.  Maybe
    'Saw does.
    
    Mac -
    
    Thanks for the tip on the cookbook.  I'll go looking for it, and
    special order if necessary.
    
    A&W
8.587TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is walking!!Mon Jun 10 1991 12:037
A&W

If you can't find the cookbook send me some mail.  They have advertisements for 
it regularly in a local running magazine (Nancy Clark's husband is the editor of
the mag.)

=Bob=
8.588CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 10 1991 12:2216
Actually, I don't remember Malden. 8^)

That weekend is officially known in the Wanderers History as 
"The Weekend Frank Got Cocked".....

Actually, I rode up with another guy from the team, and when we got into
some nearby, we just followed a jeep with rugby bumper stickers all over
it...

(that was a shitty pitch too, so thanks for the warning!  8^))


I'll have directions before the game (unless I come across the Malden
directions somewhere soon).....

'Saw
8.589RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOShould I stay or should I go....Mon Jun 10 1991 13:416
    Heard a funny on the radio this morning - a takeofff on that commercial
    that has women playing hoops in high heels.  Well this commercial has
    them playing rugby!  Too funny.  They also have a take-offf with them
    mountain climbing (yes, they all fall off the mountain...)
    
    JD
8.590Multi sport star !TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Mon Jun 17 1991 13:0410
Youse rugby guys should have seen Rachael tearing up the track at the New England
Corp track meet this weekend!  Couple of times she got thrown in relay legs 
against some real speedsters, and she held her own!  (That was you in the blue
racign shirt, right?)

Rachael, I tried to catch up to you to introduce myself, but first I had my 
event, then you were running, and then a friend asked me to watch his kids while
he ran.  Oh well, we'll have to say hi at Manny Hanny.

=Bob=
8.591QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jun 17 1991 16:5116
	I had a great time running this weekend, all 105 seconds of it.  (I did 
a 200 and a 400).  The people in the running club were really friendly and 
supportive.  It's hard to sprint against real sprinters when you're not one,
but I did well compared to myself.  I would have liked to stay and watch the
rest of the races and hang out with the DEC runners, but I promised my 
girlfriend that if she went with I'd show her Maine and we'd get lobsters.
We ended up in Kittery, which was great.  I needed shorts, since all my shorts
are either rugby shorts or running shorts.  (I've got a new job where I
could wear shorts to work, but those would be too short.)
	I'm really looking forward to the Manny Hanny, I get a real kick out
of running crowded road races.  The power of all those people running together
is tremendous.  Bob, definitely come find me, I'd like to meet you.  
	I should look for some more races this summer...

Rachael
8.592RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOShould I stay or should I go....Mon Jun 17 1991 16:544
    I'll be back east for the Manny Hanny - I know Bob, and will try to run 
    into you Racheal.
    
    JD
8.593I've been looking for a race to put Dinz in his placeCNTROL::CHILDSProud to be a card carring ABTL memberMon Jun 17 1991 18:112
 Where and how long of a race is this MAnny Hanny's....
8.594CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Mon Jun 17 1991 19:1711
Yeah, if it ain't too far away, maybe even I'D come out for it....

Rugby shorts are about all I've been wearing around this summer.  Those
New Zealand cuts are really comfortable compared to most of the shorts I have.

Agreed on wearing them to work.

I think I could wear shorts in here as long as they weren't rugby, running
or cutoffs.....

'Saw
8.595The more the merrier...TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Mon Jun 17 1991 19:3921
Manny Hanny is 3.5 miles.  It begins and ends on Charles Street in downtown 
Boston, in front of the Common and Public Garden and is on July 11 at (I think)
6:30 PM.

There are a couple of non-insurmountable problems, however:

* You must be a member of a corporate running team to compete.  That means that
  you must be in the Digital Running Club.  On the positive side, the DRC
  paritally subsidizes your entry fee.

* The entries are due this week (Thursday).  If you want to run, contact the DRC
  team captain Ron Kay (CALS::KAY, or dtn 297-4217)  ASAP.

Putting Dins in his place may be tough, because there are 10,000 runners, and 
it is tough to get off to a good start.

The race is a great time, and we always go to a resturant/bar and party 
afterward.  If any of you decide to run, let me know, so I can keep an eye 
open for you.

=Bob=
8.596Mac on rugby fashionCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 17 1991 19:504
    Matt Godek offers the "original" rugby short.  They are about knee
    length and have the traditional button fly and drawstring.  They also
    have a back pocket.  These are allegedly copied from the shorts worn
    when the sport was invented at the Rugby school.
8.597QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jun 18 1991 12:0815
Hey Keith, I needed long shorts for work, not expensive ones!  That was the
whole point of getting them in Kittery. (Outlet heaven)

Frank -- Did you send rugby.c to my old mailstop?  I've never gotten
it.  My new one is MLO5-5/E71.  I guess it'll get here someday, in any case.

Who won the men's collegiate championships in Boston this weekend?

Our AGM is on Thursday, then I'll know what we're doing for the summer.
I'm still enjoying my vacation, though.  Cyndy and I just did our post-
rugby-season house cleaning, where we did all the things we didn't have
time for during the season.  Our house looks really nice now, just in time
for us to start playing again and have the house be a mess.

Rachael
8.598FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Tue Jun 18 1991 12:343
    Pacific won the title over Atlantic on a late penalty kick.
    
    John
8.599AARRGGHHH!CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jun 18 1991 13:488
    If I get my hands on my friend Leland from Austin I'm going to kill
    him.  I got a message from him that he was coming up 6/17 (yesterday). 
    I figured, OK, he's just coming up for the Canada game.  It turns out
    he got his dates mixed up and came up LAST Monday and then never called
    me when he got into town!  Here I was on Saturday.  My first Saturday
    in a long time without rugby.  I needed a fix.  I blew off going to the
    Collegiate ITTs since I wouldn't know anyone there and it would be a
    nice gesture to my wife.
8.600CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Tue Jun 18 1991 14:1012
Rachael --

Many apologies...

I've not yet brought in the mag to copy.  I'll write it down so I won't forget,
and do it tomorrow....


Congrats on the house cleaning.  Mine still isn't done (it's livable, but
not like I like it....)

'Saw
8.601CARROL::LEFEBVREAspiring Fender BenderTue Jun 18 1991 19:087
    I ran Manny Hanny 6 years ago while still at Apollo.  We finished 147th
    overall out of about 1500 teams (no thanks to my 27 minutes).
    
    It was brutal as the entire pack never opened up until we circled the
    Common.
    
    Mark.
8.602TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Tue Jun 18 1991 19:2215
Markie

Look at this year as a chance to redeem yourself - Digital has a great shot at 
146th!

The crowd is the thing about Manny Hanny.  You either love it or hate it.  I 
generally get as far to the front as I can, but even then you have some folks
who look like out of shape props who dash out in front of the pack and then  
after about .5 mile look like somebody dropped a refridgerator on their backs.

I spoke with one of the team captains last night, and she assured me that there
were still plenty of spots open on the team.  If any of you act today (tomorrow
at the latest) this could be an improptdu ::SPORTS get together.

=Bob=
8.603RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOShould I stay or should I go....Tue Jun 18 1991 19:525
    I ran it 2 years ago wearing a fake pigs' nose and had a ball rapping
    with chicks from other companies.  Slowest race I ever ran, and loved
    it.  This year I'll slowly run it again...
    
    JD
8.604QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jun 19 1991 11:3438
    	I had a humbling experience yesterday.  I went to our practice and
    brought a friend of mine, a back from MIT.  Hardly anyone showed up, as
    we're not doing anything right now and we all need some vacation, so
    Catherine and I took the ball and went to do some kicking.  I can't
    place-kick at all, so she was showing me how.  Then, we were helping a
    guy who was interested in playing, and she showed him how to pass and
    her passes were a lot steadier then mine.  Then we did some regular
    kicking, and she was helping me learn to catch better, as I'm not so
    good a catching some kinds of kicks.  All in all, a very humiliating
    experience, as my friend from a terrible college team showed me quite a
    few things.  She was really surprised that I wasn't perfect at
    everything, as I have a reputation  on MIT as a rugby goddess.  I did
    show her one thing, we were running some lines just with each other and
    she was way too flat, even for that.
    	It made me really think, my god, if I can't kick, pass or catch,
    what the hell do I do?  I had to really think about it.  I can usually
    pass ok, but I don't do well passing in a triangle.  Since the angle is
    bad, I guess my passing isn't so solid that I can make up for it.  As
    for kicking, I don't think I've kicked more then 5 times in a game
    since I was in college.  We have a simple rule:  Forwards don't kick.
    	Catherine hadn't realized I was a forward, she was around last Fall
    when I took a season off and played for MIT, but I played scrumhalf
    then.  
    	So what do I do?  I think I know the game fairly well, although not
    nearly as well as some of our players.  I tackle well, and I have a good 
    ability to be with the play.  I can ruck and maul, although we seldom 
    maul.  I can support the backs, and really learned a lot about that last
    season in terms of my angle of run and so forth.  I am really good on
    defense in a lot of ways.  I'm not dependable in lineouts, sometimes I 
    get ball and sometimes I don't, and I sure was sad last night...
	I've been playing rugby for 6.5 years now, and it seems like once a
    season, usually just as I'm getting confident of my game, I am reminded
    of how all of what I know and have mastered is a drop in the bucket. 
    Very frustrating, but I also think it's why those of us who play are
    such maniacs about it, the sport is so intense and you can never stop
    growing.
    
    Rachael the forward...
8.605CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Wed Jun 19 1991 11:5437
Rachael the Forward....

Say that with PRIDE, girl.  Everyone KNOWS that it's the forwards that make
the game.  (I could get even snobbier and tell you that without a good front
row you'll never win, but I won't.....)

I'm far from being an expert, but first off here's what I think:

	The loose forwards (flankers, 8man) are really the players who
	make the play.  In the Hartford system, you want the flankers to
	be within a yard of the ball at all times (the IDEAL goal). Also
	our forwards never kick - well, HARDLY ever.

	Our flankers that can play loose forward and back line, tend to
	play center in the back line.  They don't kick a lot from there,
	save for the occasional up and under.  They do hit and tackle well.

	Our best kickers are our wings, fullbacks and scrum half.  Oh yeah,	
	our fly halves have good feet as well...

So, I wouldn't worry about doing all those things that a fullback does a lot.
If you're a monster hitter, play center.

(Then again, I know very little about back line play and players except that
they all carry combs....)


Re mauling:

	Hartford mauls in defensive positions.  In attacks we ruck, and we
	ruck well.  We occasionally use the rolling maul....


Hope this helps.  I have such a long way to go EVERY practice is a humbling
experience 8^)

'Saw
8.606Found in HUMOR; HAD to forwardSOFBAS::TRINWARDZAPPA: `read my lips - no }&amp;@#$% taxes'Wed Jun 19 1991 15:0398
[With slight editing, to retain its "limerickal" quality...]

  			FROM THE HUMOR CONFERENCE:

	Note 149.119                   Delightful Ditties 
	REPAIR::RICKETTS "Have you tried kicking it?"
                                 -< Doggerel >-

    Ted Grimshaw was a big centre-half
    Who once played for Queen of the South.
    Ted once went too far
    In a match at Stranraer:
    Hit the left-winger's boot, with his mouth!

    Ted couldn't eat till Monday
    Then, more hungry than annoyed,
    Employed him a dentist,
    The rankest apprentice,
    To put dentures into the void.

    On Tuesday they played Sheffield Wednesday
    In the cup-winners cup-winners cup
    And again Edward led, 
    This time with his 'ead
    Finished flat on his back, looking up.

    The big stopper's choppers had vanished;
    His gnashers were nowhere around
    It naturally followed,
    They must have been swallowed,
    Unless they'd gone out of the ground.

    But this time he managed his meals,
    Sucked steak, with peas and potater
    Washed down with tea, 
    And a sandwich or three
    Which Ted's teeth could chew, sometime later.

    Some things stay the same for a lifetime;
    But time, tide and teeth never will
    And Ted's dentures found, 
    When they'd had a look 'round
    It were time to be moving downhill

    For a while he'd a smile in his stomach
    But found that all things must pass;
    And when Edward's dentures
    Had ended their adventures
    He found he could now eat long grass.

    There are some things most men cannot do
    Though time after time they have tried,
    Men have died in the bid, 
    Tryn'ta do what Ted did:
    He bit his own bum, from behind.

    He became very popular at parties
    With tricks something people would go for,
    But they didn't want to know, 
    When he stood up to go
    'Cos his bum had just eaten the sofa.

    Seating was something to savour,
    Give him a chair and he'd chew it;
    It was nothing to some 
    That he talked through his bum --
    Politicians could already do it.

    Ted Grimshaw was now a celebrity
    His bum had become his great pride,
    He called the damned thing
    His "confidence-ring", 
    Butt `twas due to his dentures he died.

    Ted, who had been six-foot-two,
    Now suddenly became five-foot-four;
    He knew he was beat
    When his bum ate his feet
    And sat there, replete, on the floor.

    "Ted Grimshaw, poor bloke", the man's bum spoke,
    As it sat, sort of licking its lips,
    "I've eaten your feet, Ted;
    I fancy some sweetbread!"
    An' it proceeded to eat 'em, with chips!

    Liver and kidneys soon followed;
    Grimshaw was gulped from beneath.
    The man who bit his own bum 
    Found that vengeance was come,
    Until all that was left was his teeth.


    by Les Barker, not sure which book of DOGgerel verse. 8*}

Hope ya likes it...!

- Steve
8.607US falls to CanadaCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jun 20 1991 13:0517
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 101.12                   World Cup Group Four                      12 of 12
58429::FELDBRUEGGE                                    9 lines  18-JUN-1991 21:14
                               -< Canada VS USA >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On June 8th, Canada defeated the US Eagles quite handily. I heard the score
    was 34 -6 but I'm not positive.
    
    Canada's next WC warm up matches will be against Romania.
    
    Cheers
    
    John
    
    
8.608GLADYS::HUISHLife is a Cabernet ...Thu Jun 20 1991 13:0822
	Rachael,

	re 8.604 - your humbling experience

>        It made me really think, my god, if I can't kick, pass or catch,
>    what the hell do I do? 


	Sounds just like a guy who occasionally plays fullback for Oz.

	The opposition puts up a garyowen and the crowd hides their face and
	moans.

	He gets the ball behind his tryline and attempts to run it back, gets
	caught by the opposition and chucks a 'hail mary' pass.

	You just need enthusiasm to play rugby (and good knees).



	pete

8.609CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 20 1991 13:107
Damn!

I hope that Glenn didn't have a poor day kicking.  I'm hoping that it was
just a lack of potential kicking chances that kept our score so low...8^(


'saw
8.610QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jun 20 1991 16:395
	A garyowen is not a commonly used term in the US, but I happen to know
what it means because I once met a man in a bar who was named Mark, and his 
brothers were named Gary and Owen.  It seems Dad liked rugby.

Rachael
8.611CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 20 1991 17:2211
I give....what's a Gary Owen?

And, while we're at it, there's a thing some of the guys on the Wanderers
say everytime an opponent tries to kick for touch in a tight situation in
a close game.  They go "Noonan, Noonan".  Almost like magic the guy 
messes up and shanks the kick.  Then the Wanderer says "works every time".

Anyone ever hear of this?  It might be some local thing, but with something
called a GaryOwen, it makes me wonder....

'Saw
8.612CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 20 1991 17:239
And while we're at it, can anyone who knows give me the British translations
of the positions  "Stand Off" and "Three Quarters"  and any other weird 
position names?

In listening to the Welsh and Scottish commentators recently, one used these
terms a lot, but not while the play was going on, so I couldn't make a
translation....

thanks
8.613FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Jun 20 1991 17:335
    The only context in which I know of Garry Owen is that it is a British
    or Irish military song that is used by at least one military unit here
    in the States.
    
    John
8.614CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jun 20 1991 17:3612
    Garyowen - This is a kick which is so high up, it's likely to bring
    rain.  It's the type of kick you like to loft up to the opposing full
    back so that you have enough time to reach him as he catches the ball. 
    Kind of like American football punters maximizing their hangtime.  I
    think the term has its origins either from a player's name or a club
    name.  
    
    Stand Off - Also known as a flyhalf.
    
    Three Quarters - The centers (I think).  It's what's in between the
    half backs (scrum half and flyhalf) and the full back.  I could be
    mistaken on this.
8.615CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Thu Jun 20 1991 19:0512
Okay, I get garyowen now...  It's the kind of kick forwards like, because it
gives them plenty of time to get onsides, and plenty of time to get down field
and plenty of time to cream somebody....


and I just figured out why they call the fly half the standoff...  because
he's standing OFF of the scrum, not like the scrum half...

Ok.....

later,
'Saw
8.616BOSOX::TIMMONSI'm a Pepere!Fri Jun 21 1991 10:434
    And I thought a Gary Owen was the guy who played the announcer on the
    old Laugh In show.  
    
    Lee
8.617QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jun 21 1991 10:5412
	Gary Owen was a really famous player, maybe a flyhalf but I'm not sure.
As you might guess, he had a good up and under.
	Further, a common way of defending a Gary  Owen, within your own 22,
would be to call a mark.  (So the guy named his sons Gary, Owen, and Mark)

	There's also the outside and inside half's, but I'm not sure who
those are.  Scrum-half and fly-half, Keith?  
	We decided last night to go to 10 Good Men, and we start practice
Tuesday.  So much for vacation.  That's the tourney in Acton, sports fans, so
I expect everyone from DEC to be there.  But dress for heat...

Rachael
8.618CAM::WAYRuck till you puke...Fri Jun 21 1991 11:3914
Rachael --

Give me the date of Ten Good Men and I'll try to get up there to meet ya!

I like the sound of that tournament.....



Regarding Mark...

I love it when a back calls a mark, gets creamed and then the ref decides to
award it..... hahahahahahaha.....

'Saw
8.620CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Fri Jun 21 1991 12:2910
Hawk --

	The tournament is in August.  Why anyone would want to play rugby
	in that heat is beyond me, except maybe for the fact that after
	all that running, rucking, mauling, scrumming, tackling, garyowen-ing,
	and related activities while you sweat your [insert correct anatomical
	part here] off, the beer tastes better...

Hope this schleps,
'Saw
8.62110 Good Men - Guaranteed to be the hottest day of hte yearCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jun 21 1991 12:4213
    The 10 Good Men Tournament will be held on Sunday, July 21, at the
    Acton-Boxborough High School soccer fields in Acton, MA.  The
    tournament starts at 11 am and runs until about 7 pm.  The awards
    ceremony and post-tournament part will be held at the Sit'n'Bull in
    Manynard and will start around 8 pm.
    
    I'm entering a team of WPI alumni.  We'll be quite noticable in our
    maroon and gray Hawiian rugby shirts.  It sounds like Worcester RFC
    will be entering at least one team as well.
    
    Definitely dress for warm weather.  I'm convinced that even if they
    decided to hold this tournament in January, the temperatures would be
    in the high 90's.
8.622France tour of US back onCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 24 1991 15:394
    Word from Ed Sturt in the Rugby notesfile has it that France will be
    coming to the US for 4 matches in mid-July.  Two of the matches will be
    tests against the Eagles.  All matches will take place in Colorado. 
    Perhaps our CXO noters can keep us posted.
8.623RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOBobHunt and the Henchmen, LIVE!Mon Jun 24 1991 15:4810
    Re Gary Owen -
    
    The US Calvery used it as a theme song - the most famous Calvery unit
    to use Gary Owen as its 'official' song was the 7th Calvery, led by
    George Armstrong Custer.  Of course, after a while, the 'official' song
    was changed to "Theme From Kojak"
    
    HTH
    
    JD Henchman
8.624My guessJURAN::MCKAYMon Jun 24 1991 20:269
    Frank re: back about .20
    
    Noonan, Noonan  might just be related to Caddyshack.  Danny Noonan
    is about to sink a putt to win the caddy tourney and people are
    screaming at him NOOOONAN, NOONAN, MISS IT, ARRRGGGHHHHH.  Of course
    he makes the putt mows Smales's lawn,  almost gets Lacy in the sack
    etc......
    
    Jimbo
8.625Frogs hop over the pondEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanTue Jun 25 1991 06:5012
    Y'all,
    
    I've already posted this in SHAWB1::RUGBY, but just in case any of you
    don't read that conference - you should - here are the dates and venues
    for the upcoming French mini-tour of the USA:
    
    - July 10, France v Western Selection at Aspen
    - July 13, France v USA at Denver
    - July 17, France v USA B at Colorado Springs
    - July 20, France v USA at Colorado Springs
    
    Ed.
8.626More info on France tour of USCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jun 25 1991 12:0912
    Thanks, Ed.  Here's some more info (I just received the latest issue of
    "Rugby").
    
    The Colorado Springs games will be played at Sky Sox Stadium.  The
    games will be televised by Prime Sports Network (NESN is the New
    England affiliate) sometime during the week following the game.  It is
    also expected that one of the local Springs TV stations will be
    carrying the game.
    
    So, I expect match reports from you CXO noters ;^).  Actually, this is
    a rare opportunity so I urge you SPORTS FANatics out there to take
    advantage of it.
8.627CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Tue Jun 25 1991 12:399
Hopefully, despite the poor performance of the Eagles against a pumped up
Canadian team, Glen Judge will again gain a selection as starting fly-half
for the Eagles.

I won't know, so if any of you CXO folk DO attend, please pay special attention
to see if/how he plays.

thanks,
'Saw
8.628I'll attend but I refuse to talkRUGBY in a SPORTS note :*)OURGNG::RIGGENJeff Riggen Remote Selling ServicesTue Jun 25 1991 14:000
8.629GENRAL::WADEIBeenDrivinAllNight...MyHandsWetOnTheWheelTue Jun 25 1991 14:1915
    
    	Ha!  Youse guys want a match report from a rugby ignorant
    	group like us?  I can see it now:
    
    	"About 20 guys with their arms around each other collided
    	at midfield.  Then, this oversize football came squirting
    	out and the little guys (who were too wussy to jump into
    	the initial collision) started buzzing around the end
    	pitching the ball around to each other.  Finally, they
    	score!  Then they kick the extra point without a holder!
    	Damndest thang you ever seen!"
    
    	"Jeff and I neve did see any hookers though........"
    
    	Claybone :^)
8.630QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jun 25 1991 14:229
Hey 'Saw,
	For some reason, Toonces had a big presence on our team during Nationals.
There were jokes about us driving around, looking for the pitch, looking
for the hotels, etc.  Not to mention how the other teams were going to be
feeling like they were driven off the cliff by Toonces...  Just lots of
yelling about Toonces.
	

Rachael
8.631CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Tue Jun 25 1991 15:3223
hahahahha!

Well, Rachael, I went to see New Haven play Malone of Belfast last week,
with my brother and his friend (who used to play for Wild Rose).  Anyway,
Pat (my brother's friend) and I are big SNL fans, and I never miss an
opportunity to make her laugh.

Well, near the end of the game, as I was walking the sidelines, a ruck
happened in front of me, and as the ruck broke up, there was this one
guy left laying there.  Suddenly, the thought popped into my head of
Toonces, black tape around his ears, crushed flat at the bottom of a ruck.

Well, I said something to Pat and she laughed so hard...  The joke got
bigger and bigger on the ride home.  My brother had never seen Toonces,
so we had to explain to him what the deal was.


That was how "Toonces, the rugby playing Cat" came to be.....8^)


Gee, did you get that build log file yet?

'Saw
8.632You did say "her", right?NAC::G_WAUGAMANTue Jun 25 1991 15:598
> Pat (my brother's friend) and I are big SNL fans, and I never miss an
> opportunity to make her laugh.
    
    'Saw, that's not *the* Pat, is it?
    
    glenn
    
8.633CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Tue Jun 25 1991 18:148
hhahahahahaha....

Nope, not THE Pat.  This Pat doesn't have a significant other named Chris
either 8^)

(Caught me 8^))

'Saw
8.634An American in ParisEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanWed Jun 26 1991 06:2720
8.635See the French if you canGLADYS::HUISHLife is a Cabernet ...Wed Jun 26 1991 10:3238
>                                                     Actually, this is
>    a rare opportunity so I urge you SPORTS FANatics out there to take
>    advantage of it.

	Couldn't agree more. The french play the running game in a spectacular
	fashion and on their 'on' days really are a sight to behold.

	We had them in Oz last year for three tests and each one was great. In
	the second test almost 80 point were scored in what has to have been one
	of the all-time great rugby matches.

	Unfortunately Clive "why aren't the crowd watching only me" Norling,
	who had done a magnificent job refereeing the 2nd test, refereed as only
	he can in the third test. He managed to produce several decisions (which
	went against both sides) which affected the coruse of the game and which
	must have been based on 'Madonna's Book of Attention Seeking'. It left
	a sour taste in most mouths.

	The game was probably the last time we will see Serge Blanco down here.
	He is a truely amazing fullback. He has scored more tries from behind
	his own goal line than any other person ever.

	The French consume more video tape at my place than any other team.

	So, if you have a chance to see them, do so (and hopefully they will be
	on their game). Unfortunately, if they are on their game the Eagles will
	spend their day clutching at air (no disrespect to the Eagles intended).


	BTW, Gary Owen was an Irish rugby player, a fly-half (five-eighth,
	stand-off) I believe.



	pete


8.636QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jun 26 1991 10:5723
'Saw, I haven't got it yet, but they don't call it snail mail for nothing.

Last night we had our first semi-serious summer practice.  Usually, we play 
touch for about a month, then we start practicing 15's for Saranac (Aug 3-4,
Saranac and Lake Placid, NY)  So we played touch for about an hour and a 
half, running like all heck.  I was wishing it would end for about the last
half hour, although I had some nice runs.  I also turned my ankle, which I
seem to be doing a lot lately.  (Turning out)  Any suggestions to improve the
strength?  I don't want to develop a tape dependency.
	I told some of my team-mates about my experience last week with the
big ego crush, so one of them, everytime my MIT friend was near, made really
loud comments about what a great rugby player I am.  A true friend.  And I
practiced place kicking again, and got a bunch of them off the groud, possibly
as high as the goal post.  (I was kicking against posts, so I couldn't really
tell)
	It is very difficult to work in serious weight lifting with this
kind of practice twice a week.  Running that hard I don't want my arms or
legs to be tired.  I think it's (theoretically) going to be:  light legs and 
back on Monday, light arms, etc on Tuesday, heavy arms, etc on Thursday, and 
heavy legs and back on Friday.  I can't do Wednesday, and I'll probably miss
at least one of those other days a week.

Rachael
8.637CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Wed Jun 26 1991 11:1546
8.638Champagne RugbyEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanWed Jun 26 1991 12:2335
    Y'all,
    
    "Champagne Rugby" is what they call it over here. Yessir, throughout
    the 60s and 70s, the French played a game that has rarely been equalled
    since, except perhaps by the Fidjians on a good day. The emphasis was
    very much on running, open play, with plenty of attacking out of
    defense.
    
    Then along came Jacques Fouroux, who remained team coach from 1981 to
    earlier this year. He was obsessed with beating the All Blacks at their
    own game, and French rugby suffered as a result. This gradually more
    and more physical, with backs built like forwards, and forwards built
    like brick **** houses. All the flair and panache that rugby fans the
    world over loved to see went out of the window, and Fouroux's
    popularity went down the drain. His highly succesful reign - one world
    cup final, two grand slams, and a stack of victories in the 5 nations -
    ended under rarther messy circumstances earlier this year, when he was
    kicked out and replaced by Daniel Dubroca and Jean Trillo.
    
    In the short time they have been at the controls, these two have
    brought back some of the sparkle of yore, but it will take time to get
    the team fully back on the rails, and if results do not follow, then I
    fear for their heads too.
    
    The French have scored tries that no British team - except the Scots -
    could ever hope to match. One brilliant example was in the 5 nations
    game this year against England, when Serge Blanco - him again - started
    a move behind his own try line that ended up with a magnificent score
    at the other end - 100 yards away. His try in Australia last year was
    pretty spectacular too.
                             
    If you catch them on a good day, there is no-one better. If you catch
    them on a bad day, they are ill tempered and dull.
    
    Monsieur Ed.
8.639CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Wed Jun 26 1991 12:5719
Monsieur Ed --

That sounds pretty impressive.  I have to say I'm a bit prejudiced however,
because as a forward (and one confined to the tight five at that) I have to
believe that it's your pack that wins you games.

Backs and fabulous tries are great for the fans, but it's the forwards
who get ball...

All of this with many 8^) and tongue planted firmly in cheek...


I'm really looking forward to seeing the French play the Eagles.  If the
run like the fellows from Fiji, then it will be exciting even if they
score is totally one-sided...

8^)

'Saw
8.640QUAG::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jun 26 1991 20:2911
	I'd need a check on this, but my impression of the laws is that you must
play territorial select side to be picked for the National team.  This was
just put through for the women, I was under the impression it was required for
the men all along.  But, that's just a guess.
	OK, so where do I buy tape that won't cost a fortune?  I work in
Maynard.   I guess I'd rather tape it than sprain it.  Sigh.

	'Saw, are you really going to see the France-US game?  I thought it
was in CXO.  I mean Colorado.  Will it be on TV?

Rachael
8.641Any one up for travelin'???BDWISR::WASKOMWed Jun 26 1991 23:295
    OK, so are we gonna try to organize a noter's get-together here?  A
    hell-bus trip of renown.  (It's a hard 3 days of driving from Boston to
    Colorado Springs.)  After all, 'tis summer vacation time.......
    
    A&W
8.642French pack and Welsh historyGLADYS::HUISHLife is a Cabernet ...Thu Jun 27 1991 03:3848
	re 8.637

>
>        What I've heard on the french is that they have marvelous backs.
>        Does anyone know what their pack is like?  
>

	The French pack is best described as 'enigmatic'. Depending on what
	they feel is at stake, they can be really good or pretty average.

	Last year (and prior to that in France) Australia took them apart in
	the first two tests and then they came back (French pride was at stake
	as they had lost the first two tests) and more than held their own in
	the final test (all too late).

	One feature of France is that they are dangerous until the ball has
	gone dead after full-time. An really unpredictable.

	They have the ability to win matches even though their pack spends the
	day going backwards.

	Which brings me to another story ...

	In 1978 Wales toured Oz and for the first time ever we won a series
	against them. Anyway the are here again for 1 test this winter and
	the local Sunday Rugby show had highlights of the '78 tour.

	The tour was close to the end of the reign of terror of the famous
	'Pontypool Frontrow' (Pontypool being a welsh club side of world
	renown). These guys were awesome in some of the scrums. In one scrum
	the Australian tight head had his FEET several feet off the ground
	and his butt much higher than that. Apparently Charlie Faulkner was
	heard to say to our guy "You'll get snow on yer bum up there boyo".

	That's the worst shoving around I've ever seen our national team's
	pack get. The half back had to keep his hands in his pockets or they
	would get broken by the feet of our guys.


	Somehow, we won the tests. Largely due to a lack of discipline by the
	welsh.



	pete


8.643CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Thu Jun 27 1991 13:2118
Pete:

Oh, how I know that embarassin' feeling, feet off the ground, butt in the 
air, and the opposing prop slightly chucklin' all the while.....Nothing worse
than being lifted as a prop....YUK....


Rachael:

I'll watch France-US on TV.  I'm assuming NESN will carry it here a couple
of days or so after the match....


Can't help ya with tape.  I'd try a medical supply place, (which won't help
you with prewrap, though) or an athletic supply place.  I'd stay away from
trying to buy it at Hermans etc etc....

'Saw
8.644GENRAL::WADEIBeenDrivinAllNight...MyHandsWetOnTheWheelThu Jun 27 1991 14:3010
    
    A&W,
    
    	Bring it on!  Bring all your friends and all the noters and
    	their friends too!  You're all welcome to stay for free at
    
    
    	Jeff Riggen's house.  He won't mind will ya Jeff?
    
    	Claybone :^)
8.645You cain swim also I've got a pool about a block away.OURGNG::RIGGENJeff Riggen Remote Selling ServicesThu Jun 27 1991 15:043
Heck no Clay bring you'r little one over too. Nothing like getting up several
times a night to re-join the party. 

8.646So, anyone want to join me???BDWISR::WASKOMThu Jun 27 1991 15:4813
    I'm just nutso enuf that iff'n I can get even 2 other Noters to come
    with me, I'd do it.  Drive straight through, crash in someone's back
    yard to recuperate (I've got a tent), spend three or four days in my
    favorite US city, watch a couple rugby games, then drive back.
    
    I can do about 12 - 14 hours of driving at a stretch myself.  After 
    that, I need another driver.
    
    I'd want to spend at least one evening at the Golden Bee.  A couple of
    hours up at Garden of the Gods.  The way I figure it, the trip should
    take about a week.
    
    A&W
8.647'The future Mrs. Blackie'CARROL::LEFEBVREAspiring Fender BenderThu Jun 27 1991 16:069
    A&W, if'n I wasn't already married, I'd go, so long as we could swing
    through Vegas and get hitched.  :^)
    
    I've been to the Golden Bee and it's a blast.  Yards of Guiness,
    sing-along saloon piano player, bevies of babes...
    
    Besides, Claybroon owes me a few cold ones.
    
    Mark.
8.648CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Thu Jun 27 1991 17:236
 I'll pass on this one, even though I've got the vc time....

Now, if someone wants to charter a boat to sail the ocean and hit the
World Cup in England in October......

'Saw
8.649CAM::WAYToonces, the Rugby Playing Cat....Fri Jun 28 1991 11:0242
Awright!!!!

Here's a few miscellaneous items:


	First, the final of the Canada game was 34-15.  We did scored a try
	late, which was converted.  Glenn Judge left the game in the 70th
	minute with an ankle injury.  (He's okay now).

	Part of our game plan went out the window though, because in the 5th
	minute, Kevin Higgins, the team's fastest man went down with a
	concussion, so there wasn't that speedy threat to get under Glen's
	high kicks.   Glen did put through the three penalties we got.

	Canada's pack at us alive....  The Eagles are 0-fer against Canada
	*in* Canada.....

Rankings:

	The National Rankings came out in Rugby Magazine yesterday.
	
	In New England, Hartford was ranked (fanfare please) #1.....!!!!!

	In the East, Hartford was ranked #6.  That's an improvement over
	the fall rankings....


Workouts:

	Started last night.  Learned about Nautilus, had a good time, got
	a good burn going.  I figure a combination of Nautilus and free
	weights should do the trick.  Also found out that Cahal Grennon,
	our new flanker from Dallas, works out there too...  That's a 
	good influence...

	And talk about dedication.  The Saw-meister was on the road
	at 5:15 this morning, doing his 3 miler.  Since he's going to the
	races tonight, he needed the time this morning....  I  hope all
	this work pays off this fall......


'Saw
8.650BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jul 11 1991 10:5113
>	The Hey Keith,10 Good Men Tournament will be held on Sunday, July 21, 
> at the Acton-Boxborough High School soccer fields in Acton, MA


Hey Keith, 
	I've been to 10 Good Men when it's been on the grounds of the 
high school, within sight of the buildings, and also when it was on
some soccer fields off Rt. 2.  I didn't know if those were also the school's
soccer fields, so can you tell me which place the tourney is?

Thanks,

Rachael
8.651CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchThu Jul 11 1991 11:2912
Well, looks like I cain't make 10 good men...

My brother's got tickets for the Winston-Cup race in Pocono.  It's the
Something-or-Other 500.....


BTW, been working out really regularly and am really getting into it.
I've been doing mostly Nautilus, and it's helping.  (When you've done
NOTHING for so long, even Nautilus helps).  Over the next couple of
weeks gonna add in some free weights too.....

'Saw
8.652MAXWEL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jul 11 1991 16:5718
    Eagles selections:  Within the last few years, the Eagle selectors have
    instituted a policy that players must play in certain venues and attend
    Eagle mini-camps.  Americans living overseas are eligible for selection
    (at least they've been selected before) and this requirement may be
    waived for them, but I'm not sure on this.  I do remember some recent
    controversy over a selection of an American playing in France to the
    Eagle squad.
    
    Yes, the France vs. US games will be televised within a couple of days
    of the matches.  It is being carried by Prime Sports Network.  The
    Prime affiliate in New England is NESN.
    
    Rachael, I'm not that familiar with the area.  All I know is what was
    written in the mailings - Acton/Boxborough HS soccer fields.
    
    I've been working on getting my house in shape.  I hope I can catch up
    on getting the bod in shape before the upcoming season.  This house
    stuff may make me a no-show at the 10 Good Men :^(.
8.653BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jul 11 1991 17:419
Hmm. Pretty suspect...  The tight five players suddenly can't make the
world's hottest tourney...  Is it really housework, or is the fear, after
all this butch tight five talk, of having to run around and work hard like
a FLANKER on the guarenteed hottest day of the summer?


:^)

Rachael
8.654CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchThu Jul 11 1991 18:1118
You know it's bad when a forward starts badmouthing another forward! 

Flanker, hmph...  Try getting in tight and REALLY binding instead of this
namby-pamby one arm around the lock stuff.  See where rugby is REALLY 
played 

[of course, many 8^)]


Well, the Wanderers are off for the summer, so I know that we don't have
a group going up or anything, and I can't pass up the tickets to the
race.

Rachael, the Yahoo 7s are in Hartford (at Trinity College I believe)
on July 27.  You should look into coming down for that....  I'll be
working there....

'Saw
8.655BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jul 12 1991 11:2545
OK OK Now for an overly serious response to something we're kidding about:
(I thought it was a good response, I just feel like blabbing about being
a flanker since you reminded me)

>Try getting in tight and REALLY binding instead of this
>namby-pamby one arm around the lock stuff.  See where rugby is REALLY 
>played 

You forget I played prop for a year and a half.  Tighthead at that.  Then #8
for two years, which is not tight five but you do get scabs on your ears
for what it's worth.  Actually, to be honest, it took me a long time to get
used to playing flanker.  It's the postion where if you have someone good,
it's a glory spot, but it's also where they put people who are too small to
be a forward and too slow to be a back.  I really love playing #8 the best,
but was put at flanker when I went out for club ball.  My reaction was
basically "flanker-planker, who wants to be a flanker?".  But, two+ more years
gone by, I really love it and I think I'm well suited.  I love to run and
tackle and don't care too much about carrying the ball but like to do it.
So, I still love it when I get thrown in at #8, which happens about two or
three times a season, but am also a happy flanker.  I do lie about my weight,
though (165lbs, don't forget) and I'm thinking of lying about either my age
(turning "28" this summer, I'm a little young now) or my height (I think I'll
try 5'8").

So, speaking of being a flanker, I did  the perfect exercise for  it yesterday
and ran the Manufacturer's Hanover in Boston.  For those of you who don't
know, it's a 3.5 mile race with ~10,000 runners.  I spent the entire race
in a dense crowd, sprinting through little gaps here and there and trying 
not to get trapped.  I passed the clock on the way out (about 150 meters past
the start) at 4:58, and the first runners were at the mile mark.  I was still
in a big enough crowd so we had to walk around the corners.  Cyndy told me the
start wasn't complete until the first runners were at two miles.   Seeing as I'm
a rugby player and we have a reputation to uphold, I will compare it to rugby
as everything in life compares to rugby.  It was like when you get up from
the bottom of a ruck and are trying to sprint out to support the play, but
the, uh, hookers (certainly not those speedy props or second rows) are in
the way.  Except that in rugby, you only have to escape about 8 people, and
in the Manny Hanny, there were 10,000.  I was glad I am a rugby player, because
it helped me make moves.  Even so, I didn't get back until 31:20, and I never
reached my stride in the entire race.  But it was all worth it because I got
to meet fellow Sports_noter Bob McCullough.  Plus some of the people I had
met at the track relays in Maine, and my running  buddies here at MLO.  Hi
everyone, it was nice to see you.  Next year I'm going to the dinner afterwards.

Rachael
8.656BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jul 12 1991 11:264
Oh, PS  'Saw, it sounds like fun but I think we're at a tourney that day
on the Cape.  I'll have to check.

Rachael
8.657CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 11:3220
Flankers.... Surely the "Pretty Boy Backs" of the forwards 8^)


Quite seriously, I think good flankers (and 8man) are the key to winning
rugby.  If they're there where the ball is EVERY time, you're gonna win.
They'll provide a good platform.  (You do need excellent scrummaging to
win also, but everyone KNOWS that).  In Hartford, we're blessed with
a bunch of great flankers....

Speaking of speedy props, I was talking with Cahal, our flanker who 
recently came to us from the Dallas Harlequins (who made the Final
Four this year).  At any rate, he was telling me that all of the props
on Dallas could run a sub 7-minute mile.  *I* was impressed.

Some of us were born to play a couple of different positions on a rugby
field.  Some of us were born to play tight five.  And the luckiest of
us were born to prop.  You really gotta love the game to be a prop....


'Saw
8.658 mebbe someday I'll coach ya & show ya how ...CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Fri Jul 12 1991 12:518
    Hey SLOF 'Saw!
    
    Hell, my 90 yr. old grandma cain do a sub-7:00 mile!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.659CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 13:1920
kev, Kev, Kev.....

We've got one prop on our team who could do that.  The rest of us, I doubt
it.  Although with a guy like Big Joe Norton (6'1" 270), it doesn't matter.
What matters there is that he's a crushing scrummager...

The fastest mile I've run lately was a 7:15 in the Manchester Road
Race in November 1988.   Over the 4.75 mile course my two best miles
(back to back) were 7:35 and 7:15...


I'm not even sure what my times are now, since I haven't timed myself.
I do know that my times are quicker now than the last time I weighed this
much.  

I'm not sure I'm losing any weight, but I do know that with working out
and running, things are redistributing a bit....


'Saw
8.660CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jul 12 1991 13:2119
    'Saw, I played against the 'Quins and Cahal is pulling your leg.  They
    do have a few props that do a good job of getting around the field,
    though.  One of them used to play for Austin when he was finishing up
    his degree at UT.  He moved to Dallas when he got a job.  He lost a
    bunch of weight and even played a little at flanker for the second and
    third side.
    
    Send me info on the Yahoo 7s.  I just got off the phone with a buddy of
    mine in Albany that I used to play rugby with in college.  He mentioned
    that some of the other WPI alums might be interested in playing in
    Hartford.  Is it just a one day tourney or is it the whole weekend?  A
    few of the guys have tickets to the GHO on Sunday.
    
    After making a few phone calls it doesn't look like the WPI Old Boys
    will be playing in Acton.  I sent the word out too late what with all
    of this house stuff going on.  I might go anyway as Worcester is
    planning on entering 2 teams.  Rachael, if you've seen my new house
    you'd see why I might have to beg off.  Besides, I'm taking that
    Saturday off to play in the annual Worcester Rugby Golf Tournament.
8.661CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 14:0521
re Cahal:

	Well, I could only tell ya what he told me 8^)

re Yahoos:

	All I can tell you at this point is that the tournament is on
	July 27, and I believe they hold it at Trinity College, which
	is more or less up the hill from Colt Park (roughly speaking).

	I suppose I'll be getting a letter or something from the team.
	If I get a chance next week I'll try to make a couple of phone
	calls for you though.....

re your House:

	Call Norm and Steve from This Old House.  It'll save you a lot
	of indigestion, and we'll get to see you, the wife, and the
	kid on TV.....8^)

'Saw
8.662CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jul 12 1991 14:375
8.663WMOIS::COOK_TFri Jul 12 1991 14:449
    re .658
    
    Kev, the only reason you could do a sub 7:00 is because you have less
    wind resistence on your haid and your so close to the ground! 8^)
    
    Tom
    
    BTW...who let you out today?
    
8.665w/time off for good behavior too????CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Fri Jul 12 1991 15:0516
    Whayl slap my haid and kick my butt - Mr Cook How the hell R ya?
    
    Guess ya made bail huh?
    
    What's it been ? Something like 12 months since you lasted appeared
    here?
    
    Since there are fewer Sales folks ;*( , fewer calls are coming to the 
    competitive hotline so I've got time on my hands.
    
    You planning on becoming a "regular" or are you gonna be another RAS?
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.666There's nothing "regular" about the conferenceWMOIS::COOK_TFri Jul 12 1991 15:2411
    re .665
    
    Nah, I'm knee deep into a new software electronic publishing project. 
    I can't break these chains just yet.
    
    But just to keep this note to the topic, I think rugby rates right up
    there with rollerblades sans neon and lemmings!  8^)
    
    
    Tom
    
8.667CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 15:3912
A few thoughts before I ruck over Tom ;^)


Competitive Hotline:  At today's Digital, that's an oxymoron.  We're neither
	competitive, hot, or on line with anything that's gonna get us where
	we belong.....


I need a beer.  I just have had a craving for a beer all morning.  I wanted
to share that with you all.....

'Saw
8.668He's easy to set offWMOIS::COOK_TSmithwick's @ McSwiggins=HeavenFri Jul 12 1991 15:4811
    re .667
    
    I knew that would rile you up!
    
    Hey 'Saw (to quote someone in here)
    
    Do me!   8^)
    
    
    Tom
    
8.669LAGUNA::MAY_BRNeed one of those endolphin rushesFri Jul 12 1991 15:5013
    
    re -2
    
    Tom, do you work on the cometitve team back east?  If so, we may have a
    common acquaintance.
    
    re Saw
    
    What do you want regular or lite?  I keep a cooler here next to my
    desk.  Out of Sammy's right now, but I got some Anchor Steams that are
    nice and cold.  Do you want that out of the bottle or in a chilled mug?
    
    Bruce
8.670Easy 'Saw I'm just having funWMOIS::COOK_TSmithwick's @ McSwiggins=HeavenFri Jul 12 1991 15:5711
    re. 669
    
    I work on an internal project that takes the binaries and doc out of
    engineering and puts them into the vendors hands using the net
    
    BTW who were you thinking of?
    
    Tom
    
    PS...To make the note legit, rucking and mauling sound like square
    dance moves.  8^)
8.671Manny Hanny ~= Rugby???TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Fri Jul 12 1991 17:2213
Hey Kev, if Grandma cain really do a 7 minute mile, lets get her a job at 
Digital so she cain run for the Running Club!!

Manny Hanny is a trip.  I was in the second row at the start, and still had to 
do the bump and dodge stuff to get any space.  So that's what Rugby is like, 
huh?  And I always thought I was too small for the game 8^).

It was good to meet you, Rachael.  I did go to the party, and stayed much too 
late.  I was sitting in a meeting this morning trying to keep my eyes open, 
leaning on my water bottle.  Of course when I left the party, JD was still
going strong!

=Bob=
8.672are too!CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Fri Jul 12 1991 17:5532
    Bruce,
    
    I'M the guy on the hotline and yup, I'm sure we have a common
    acquaintance (who is presently enjoying the sun ((can I say that
    here?)) in Hawaii.  Glad you dodged the bullet.
    (did the dropped hint mean anything?)
    
    'Saw,
    
    Sorry pal but I beg to differ wif your statement about non-competitive
    and hotline.  To prove it, call dtn 297-3333 (1-800-DEC-ISIT) and just
    see how different THIS group is in reality as compared to the
    perceptions of the other corp. groups.  Today, there are 3 of us here
    so there's a 66% probability you'll not get me.
    
    We have, at the least, products which are competitive if not clearly
    better (generalization, there are always exceptions) IF we position
    our product properly AND provide (ahem) information about the
    competitive offering which might be somewhat damaging.
    
    Since I'm coming to the 'sawfest tomorrow (cain't wait, already got a
    woodie), how about a bit o' verbal sparring then?  We could ruck it up
    a bit!
    
    Mc,
    
    Gramma likes to play the free-agent field.  I tried to get her to
    become a DECcie for the very reason you suggested but she mumbled
    something about having more fun as a prison guard/nightclub bouncer
    and joining the running club could have an effect on her late night
    activities and the like.  Ya know, having to get to bed early - she
    said that wasn't acceptable.  Sorry!!!
8.673CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 18:3228
well then Kevmeister, more power to ya.

I guess I'm just bothered by seeing us have so much engineering talent
(and other types that I'm not a familiar with) and seeing us wallow around
so much.

Like the letter that came out proclaiming how the company has to reshape
and all this other bullshit.  Don't treat us like we're in kindergarten,
treat us like we're the folks who are in the trenches who will save this
company.  I've seen so much good engineering messed up by management and
lousy marketing.....


It's like being on a rugby team with two all-world props, the best hooker
going, two monstrous locks, flankers who never stop and the ultimate 8man.
That pack could eat anyone alive.  So with all that the team is coached
to use the backs all the time, and after a botched lineout, the choice
is always for a second lineout instead of the scrum.

I'd rather be on a rugby team short on talent, long on GREAT coaching, 
who reaches deep within themselves to excel all the time.

We're playing to our weaknesses instead of our strengths, having to deal
with the waste of stupid letters that say nothing, and other useless
management trivialities....


'Saw
8.674BDWISR::WASKOMFri Jul 12 1991 19:0314
    'Saw -
    
    Think of tomorrow's party as a drink-up without the game preceding :-)
    
    
    To whoever -
    
    Rucking & mauling as square dance calls????  I'll get to work on that,
    since I love both rugby and square dancing and should be able to come
    up with something really creative :-) :-)  Something along the lines of
    a wheelbarrow race maybe, straight across the square, followed by a
    quick chorus of Twister....
    
    A&W
8.675:40 minutes till 1 week of playtime!!!!!CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Fri Jul 12 1991 19:2330
    'Saw,
    
    Agreed.
    
    It's been said over and over again - we have terrible management
    without a clear vision or corporate goal (other than advanced anal
    protection).
    
    As seen by MrT's comments, the problem IS NOT at the low levels.  If
    you've seen the KO comments regarding the NMS, it's clear that the
    majority of the problem appears not to be at the very top although BLAM
    must ultimately lie there.
    
    IMO, if they got rid of layers 3 - 7 in toto, DEC would be a mean,
    screaming, hi-spirited entity.
    
    never happen....
    
    If you haven't seen the KO memo, send me mail & I'll oblige.  He starts
    out by saying something like "you guys really blew it".  I liked his
    tone.
    
    Ironic that right after that memo was issued, McLure wrote his
    "hostage" report.
    
    BTW - my map (old) is of the I-86 variety.  Would you say that exit 66
    (backroad thingie) is VERNON, south of the Vernor Center exit?
    
    Kev
    
8.676CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 19:3246
A ruck, properly executed is the true essence of life.

Before you stands an obstacle:  a teammate tackled, with the ball on the
ground.  Around you swirls the adversity of bearing the mortal coil, ready
to pounce on the unwary, and snatch from your very hands that which you 
most urgently desire.

Suddenly, support comes together, your teammates are all around you as
you bear down on your fallen comrade.  Your pulse quickens, for it is not
a natural thing to rush headlong into the growing maelstrom of opposing
bodies, head down, arms outstretched.  But as your apprehension asserts
itself for a fleeting second, so it is dashed by the growing knowledge
that with your teammates you can meet the adversity and emerge victorious.

Bodies come together with that low thud so common to all rugby collisions.
Your breath is labored and you struggle to lift your feet over your 
own man.  Leaden legs raise, sparing your teammate the rototilling of
your cleats.  Your opponents man is not so lucky, as, their job done, 
feet descend just over your own man, the gaping maw of aluminum cleats
chewing the opponent before spitting him out bloody.

The opposition grows though, and you push harder still.  Driving, driving,
driving....

While you are driving and heaving, sweaty body obeying the urging of the
taskmaster of your brain, your other teammates are not standing idle.

The backs have formed their line, the flyhalf waiting with the anticipation
of a bridegroom on the evening of his nuptuals, for the ball, that great
white leather ball, to emerge from the ruck.  The other backs watch the
flyhalf, for he is their leader, and to his will they will soon bend theirs
once he starts their dance.

Meantime, the scrumhalf, like an industrious ant (for indeed, he is smaller
in stature than the behemoths in the heart of the ruck) is prowling the
back of the ruck, looking for the ball.

He beseeches the ruck, like a supplicant before a god, hoping that his
call of "Ball, ball, I want ball, gimme ball" will hasten the exit of
the ball, and spur the large men in the ruck to even greater work.

Suddenly, the ball emerges, like some insectile egg spit forth from the
belly of its mother, and lays on the ground.  Quicker still it is snatched
from the open ground by the scrumhalf, and passed out to the flyhalf.

The dance has begun.....
8.677CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 12 1991 19:3512
Kev --

Exit 66 in REAL LIFE is TUNNEL ROAD, Vernon.  You can't miss it.  (Vernon Circle
Vernon center area is like 63 I think)....

I-84 is what 86 used to be...  Just take 66 and you'll be golden if you
want the backroads.  59 will give you I-384 east.....


Good luck 8^)

'Saw
8.678most impressiveGENRAL::WADEBetterJudgedBy12ThanCarriedBy6!Sat Jul 13 1991 12:456
    re. 'Saw in .676
    
    	.....then swing yo padnah DOE-SEE-DOE!  You oughta send that
    	piece to that Rugby magazine you subscribe to.
    
    	Claybone
8.679Tour NewsEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanMon Jul 15 1991 07:2539
8.680BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jul 15 1991 10:5923
Ed,
	As I was told upon entering this note, you have to take sportsnote
with a few grains of salt.  We're just giving each other sh*t about position.
I think that 'Saw, Mac and I all have a great deal of appreciation for each
other's positions.  It's only the backs we don't respect, given the amount
of time they spent adjusting their shorts and combing their hair!
	Seriously, now, I don't think there's any one of us that doesn't 
understand very thoroughly that it takes all 15 to make it.  That's why we
love the game, that's what makes it infinitely superior to many other sports,
etc etc.	
	Thanks for the updates on the international matches.  I like to 
know what's going on at large, and I don't subscribe to rugby.

	'Saw, I think you've reached a new high expressing the idolatry with
which we regard the game in general and rucks in particular.  My only comment
is I've never seen a white leather ball, only brown ones, but I'm not a back
so I could easily just not noticed.  I'd just check that before you send it
off to Rugby.

Rachael

PS  I saw our team for Acton, it looks pretty sharp.
	
8.681CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 15 1991 11:3116
Ed, Dude, chill.....


Rachael is right.  We all bust on each other in a very good natured fashion.
As a prop, I'll tell you that I have the utmost respect for flankers.  
When you come out of a scrum (and as a prop you're more than likely the
last guys) it's heartwarming to look up and see a flanker supporting the
back who's just made the gain line.  A prop feels like "Okay, just hold
till I get there...."  8^)


Rachael, I've only seen one brown ball ever.  We always play with either
Mitre or Gilbert balls, and they're always white....


'Saw
8.682A load of ballsEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanMon Jul 15 1991 13:0235
    
    
    Y'all,
    
    Way back in the early 1970s, when I started playing the game at the
    tender age of 11, only the traditional brown leather balls were
    available. These clumsy objects had a number of disadvantages:
    
    - once they are covered in mud, you can hardly see the things in the
      fading light of typical rain-drenched Saturday afternoon in England
    
    - when it rains, which it usually does, catching a brown leather ball
      is about as easy as catching a bar of soap
    
    - when it rains, which it usually does, these balls tend to absorb
      water and by the end of the game weigh about ten times their original
      poundage
    
    All these problems have since been solved by the, usually, white balls
    which have a plastic coating to stop them from absorbing water and
    offering better grip. We occasioanlly train with a good old brown leather
    job, but we're no longer allowed to use them for games in France.
    
    The official World Cup ball, made by Adidas, is a multicolored object,
    which top French teams have been using for over a year in an effort to
    become accustomed to it.
    
    You may not have noticed, but the shape and size of rugby balls varies
    from one country to another, the French variation being longer and
    thinner than its British counterpart.
    
    This makes for entertaining post-match tabletalk. What shape are your
    balls?
           
    Ed.
8.683BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jul 15 1991 16:4717
Oops, I never realized what was underneath that plastic coating.

I agree with Ed, those older brown balls are slippery and weigh a ton, even
when dry.  Plus they tend to go flat.

'Saw, occaisionally I stand in at prop.  It's ok for a few scrums, but
after a while my binding arm starts to go numb, if we don't run in 
between.  Plus it sure is a lot harder to sprint to the next play from
a tight five position then from the back row.  There's that second where
you just stand up, then you lumber off, picking up speed along the way.

I'm so psyched to play in Acton.  There's going to be some tough competition
this year.  I'm not sure what I'll do the next weekend though, many of 
Beantown's players are involved in other "fun" teams, and there's only 5 of
us left over.

Rachael
8.684Gotta do more work on The Guns though...CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 15 1991 17:2235
I find that my right arm (binding arm) has a tendency to get numb when
we do scrum after scrum after scrum, if I'm playing loosehead.  I find the
problem much less intense if I play tighthead.

Prop is one of those positions where you have to a) WANNA do it, and b) be
PROUD to do it.

I fully agree about getting out of the scrum.  When I played second row,
I found I could break out as soon as I heard "Ball's out".  But at prop
you have to disengage, and that's a bit harder.


Despite abusing my body with the Amber Nectar over the weekend, I was
in the gym at 0830 on Saturday morning.  I was learning a new Nautilus
circuit, and it was harder than the first one I learned.  What made it
all worthwhile was the  Aerobics class going on in the glassed-in
aerobics room.

Here's the Chainsaw doing his Lat exercise:

	"One (breathe out)...bodacious!"
	"Two (breathe out)...WOW check it out"
	"Three (breathe out)... Gotta love it"

I did 3.4 at lunch today.  I have never felt better in my life.  There's
an energy that I feel that I haven't felt before.  What I'm hoping to do
is capture some of it and store it away for about three-quarters of the
way into the season....

I'm finding I love working out (even if it is ONLY Nautilus right now)
Another week or so I'll start adding on free weights.  

Maybe one day I'll even approach JD-dom with *my* lats!

'Saw
8.685rugby as a 15 a side gameGLADYS::HUISHLife is a Cabernet ...Mon Jul 15 1991 23:1038


>I think that 'Saw, Mac and I all have a great deal of appreciation for each
>other's positions.  It's only the backs we don't respect, given the amount
>of time they spent adjusting their shorts and combing their hair!
>        Seriously, now, I don't think there's any one of us that doesn't 
>understand very thoroughly that it takes all 15 to make it.  That's why we
>love the game, that's what makes it infinitely superior to many other sports,
>etc etc.        

	Sounds like a northern hemisphere opinion here. In OZ we learnt to
	use our backs because, until recently, we didn't have forwards who
	could hack it (at an international level).

	Most of them could comb their hair because their hands were busted up
	by forwards going backwards in scrums/rucks/mauls.

	:-)

	Rugby is a 15-a-side game which when played properly no-one gets a 
	chance to comb their hair or adjust their shorts.


	WRT NSW 71 Wales 6 - their were 13 tries scored by NSW including 5
	by the guy that I mentioned way back who couldn't catch the ball.
	He had an 'on' day.

	The press has certainly had a lot to say about the display, claiming it
	as the most complete performance by any team world-wide at this level.
	Unfortunately we only saw 15 minutes of it. Hopefully there will be some
	more later this week.



	pete


8.686CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchTue Jul 16 1991 10:5628
I don't care if a team has the 7 BEST backs in the world, the forwards will
still bust on them ;^)


Can't believe it won't be long before the season starts again.  Fall season
up here in the East is something special, since our entire league season
is played in the fall.  

Our spring season's goals were to accomplish certain things on the pitch
and to go to the Bahamas and have a good time, and to win the New England
Tournament.  We accomplished that, but there didn't seem to be the 
intensity from last fall.

Now, however, we get back to going up against the likes of Boston, Beacon Hill,
Mystic River, and New Haven.  We have some scores to settle (like with
Mystic River, against whom we tied last year, and that tie cost us the
championship).  Some teams have some scores to settle with us (like
New Haven, who we barely beat in the New England Tournament AND the 
Connecticut Cup, and Boston, who we knocked off in New England).

Finally, we've got a new team in Division 1, and they looked tough
in their Division II bracket in the New England tourney....


Got to keep on lifting and running......


'Saw
8.687Rugby this SundayBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jul 18 1991 11:036
	Interesting 'Saw, how our seasons are reversed.  For us, it's
the spring that we get all hyped up for.
	Don't forget sports fans, rugby in Acton this weekend.  Sunday,
at the high school near 27 and 111, about 11 to about 6.  This is the only
time all year we play in Massachusetts but outside 128, and one of about
4-6 times a year that we play in Mass.  at all.
8.688CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchThu Jul 18 1991 11:5214
Rachael, best of luck!

I'll be thinkin' about you rucking and mauling and scrumming while I'm
watching Dale Earnhardt, Geoff Bodine, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliot et al
racing in the 500.

Oh, and the weather man assured me last night that you'll have your hot
and humid day!  

Are you playing flanker or back line?


have fun,
'Saw
8.689Taking Saturday *and* Sunday off is out of the questionCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jul 18 1991 13:2910
8.690CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchThu Jul 18 1991 13:5212
Oh, I thought they used more forwards down deep in the offensive zone....

Anyway, I would go, but I can't pass up the opportunity to see a real
NASCAR race (especially at the price I'm getting the ticket at:  $0)

So, go have fun and play rugby.

Mac, you might have to attitude adjust the wife a little bit.  I'm not quite
sure how to go about that, but there's LOTS of married guys on the Wanderers
and if I hear of any great tips, I'll let ya know [many 8^)]

'Saw
8.691CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jul 18 1991 14:0613
8.692OZARDZ::WASKOMThu Jul 18 1991 14:347
    I won't be there, either.  Sorry about that.
    
    I'm gonna be at a Bluegrass  concert and auction, held by a chamber
    music group I support.  (Yes, the bluegrass musicians are the same
    folks that do the chamber music -- plus a few.)
    
    A&W
8.693CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchThu Jul 18 1991 16:599
Oh, okay, Mac.

Now that you mention it, I do remember you saying something one time about
how cool your wife was relative to The Game....


Yeee-hah!

'Saw
8.694BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jul 18 1991 18:0220
Best way I know to handle the wife is to have her play.  This Spring, I wanted
to go back and play club again, and Cyndy wanted to make it a whole year we
took off.  Boy if that didn't cause some friction.  I felt she could do whatever
she wanted but I was going to play, and she was going to be d*ed if she was
going to be a rugby widow.  But she ended up playing also and really enjoying
the season, so it worked out ok.
	Back in those early days when everything is so starry eyed and you can't
imagine ever disagreeing, rugby was the only thing I made a disclaimer for. I
warned her that I was a rugby player all the way through, that it took a lot
of time and energy, and that I was likely to continue as such.
	Sorry to miss 'Saw, Mac, and Alison at the tourney.  I'm working on
my group to show up for a cheering section, also.  I hope it's absolutely
blazingly hot.

Rachael

PS  Mac's right, you play with either a front row or a tight five and the
rest backs.  We'll probably do the former, I don't see much point to the
latter.  I have absolutely no idea what I'll play, given who else is on
the roster it could be anywhere.
8.696BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jul 19 1991 11:219
Hawk,
	Laverne, probably not.  Sigourney is a definite maybe.

	I just found out (horror of horrors) that I might be hooking on
Sunday.  I don't mind doing it, but I am so bad at it.  Oh well, it'll be
fun.  I'm really looking forward to it, it's supposed to be nice and steamy
through Sunday.

Rachael
8.697CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 19 1991 11:2815
Hooking, ain't that a bitch.

When we played 7s that's what I had to do.  And I *immediately* got a 
healthy dose of respect for those folks who have to whip that leg out there
and grab the ball.  That's tough stuff....


Found out last night from Cahal that HWRFC won Mad River.  Great stuff
Wanderers!


Actually lost some weight this week....weighed in this am at 227.


'Saw
8.699NERFU Div. II RestructuringCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jul 19 1991 12:3910
    I saw a copy of the WRFC fall schedule last night.  I don't have it
    with me or I'd type it in.  We do play the Wanderers in Worcester the
    second (?) week of November.
    
    The second division of NERFU has been restructured with some new teams
    coming on board.  I don't have all the details, but it sounds like due
    to the number of teams, not everyone will play against each other. 
    There will be 2 brackets and then a playoff game.  New teams in the
    league are Boston Irish and Burlington that I know of (they are on our
    schedule).
8.700France Vs USAOURGNG::RIGGENJeff Riggen &quot;RSS&quot;Fri Jul 19 1991 17:117
The Frence team beat the USA team 61-6 the other night out here...

If I want to see a Masacare I'll pop in my Denver Bronco's Vs. NYG, WASH, SF
Super Bowl tape.


Jeff
8.701Rucking in the rainEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanMon Jul 22 1991 06:2819
    
    
    The second test between France and the US, and the last game of the
    tour, came to a premature end after just 42 minutes of play due to the
    appalling weather. Apparently a violent electric storm and hurricane-like
    winds made play difficult, if not impossible. The referree, concerned
    about the players safety, brought things to a close with the score at
    France 10 USA 3.
    
    In 1976, a French player - J.F. Philiponneau - was killed by lightning
    during a league game in the town of Clermont-Ferrand, so the Frogs are
    a bit touchy about his sort of thing...
    
    Other results. England finally managed to actually win a game, when
    they beat Fidji 28-12 in Suva, again in a tropical downpour. Wales were
    obliterated 63-6 by Australia in Brisbane, and Ireland lost the first
    test against Namibia in Windhoek 15-6.
    
    Ed.                             
8.702Ten Good Men reportBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jul 22 1991 11:2148
Quick results:

Boston didn't show, so it was Beantown versus the colleges.  Our first game
was pathetic, we beat Brown 8-0 in a tremendous show of disarray.  One try
run in, and one pushover.  After the game we all discussed what happened and
how we should adapt to playing 10's versus 15's.  Many of our players had not
played 10's, and those that had, it has been years.  (Two, for me)  We had
not practice together at all, we've just been playing touch in practice with
about 2 of us per side and a lot of local college kids.  And believe me, it
showed  in that first match.  Low communication, lots of bobbled ball, etc.

We redeemed ourselves with a 40-0 victory over U. Conn.  We scored almost
every time we had possesion, including several kickoffs.  A somewhat cheap
game at a  few points, one of our players was called for punching one of
them.  She did it because the player had both legs wrapped around her knee
and was trying to destroy it, so our player was punched her legs to try and 
persuade her to disengage.  I didn't see this as I was on the other side of
the ruck, but in the same play, one of their players was lying on the ground
kicking with both feet.  They also elbowed me and one of our other players.
Further, their coach was heckling the referee, who is married to one of our
players.  Ed told him to be quiet and he said he wasn't a player, so he didn't
have to.  Ed happens to be one of the best referees on the East Coast.  He
usually doesn't ref women's games, as he's been accused of throwing them 
towards Beantown.   He and his wife have so much integrity and class, it's
stupid to even think of that.  He is a terrific ref, very instructive to
watch and play under, and would never do such a thing.  He ended up telling
the coach to leave the playing area, and when he didn't, gave us a penalty
which we ran in for another try.  Not too impressive, I wasn't too dismayed 
to teach them a lesson in the game.

Next we played U. Vermont and beat them 24-0.  The played well and it was a
good game.

So, not counting our heinous first game, we scored 64 points in 40 minutes,
which is the very least we should do against a college side.  We got a nice
cup and little ribbons for each of us.  Ten Good Men has always been a very
well run tournament.

As for me, I did better then I expected hooking, we won a lot of ball and
my throws were mostly good.  I didn't score, which was a little upsetting
given the opportunities, but I guess these things happen when you play
tight.

Rachael

PS  I didn't have time to follow the men's games, so I don't know what 
happened.  Brookline Old Boys were there wearing our jerseys!  All I 
know is MIT was eliminated early.
8.703OZARDZ::WASKOMMon Jul 22 1991 14:438
    Rachel -
    
    I was thinking of you playing in the heat as I drove south on Sunday. 
    Glad to hear that the games were kept short and that everyone survived.
    :-)   Not entirely surprising to hear that you guys won, but congrats
    on the hooking success.  It's not a position that I'd want.
    
    A&W
8.704Didn't think Rugby was for wimps !OURGNG::RIGGENJeff Riggen &quot;RSS&quot;Mon Jul 22 1991 15:289
I couldn't beleive that they called the game Saturday between France and USA. 
I was out playing golf swinging a metal stick wearing steel spiked shoes. I 
didn't discontinue play because of 40MPH wind, lightning and rain coming down 
in buckets. 

These Rugby players musta been afraid that there Whine and Brie might get 
spoiled if they didn't stop playing and get under the cover of the nearest BMW. 

Jeff
8.705CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchTue Jul 23 1991 11:4111
8.706or was it the total lobotomy? ;^)CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Tue Jul 23 1991 12:429
    Jeff,
    
    Obviously, you HAD to be swinging a Driver 'cause we all know
    even God cain't hit a driver!
    
    Nonetheless, I gotsta congradulate ya on your elephant-sized
    filberts!
    
    Kev
8.707CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchThu Jul 25 1991 11:1532
Saturday, in Colt Park in Hartford, at 9am, the Yahoo 7s will kick off.


The Yahoo 7s has a long and historic tradition.  Originally, there were
three rugby clubs in the Hartford area.  There was, of course, the
Wanderers, formed in 1966.  But along the way, the West Hartford Yahoos
sprang up, as did the Berlin Strollers.

Also along the way, the Yahoos and Strollers went out of business and
merged with the Wanderers.  The Yahoos used to wear pink jersies with
black socks, and these colors can still be seen in the jersies of the
Hartford Old Boys, as one stripe in the shirt, and the  black with pink
trim socks.

One of the legacies left behind by the Yahoos, and taken over by the
Wanderers after the merger, was the Yahoo 7s tournament, the last weekend
in July.

Well, Yahoo 7s time is here again.  One change this year is that the
tourney will be in Colt Park, instead of at Trinity College.


I'm not planning on playing, but I will be going to help out and work.
If any of you are interested, come on down.  7s rugby is a great way
to learn about the game, because each game is quit (two 7 minute halves
with a 1 minute intermission) and with only 14 guys on the field
it's easy to watch....


If anyone is interested and needs directions, lemme know....

'Saw
8.708BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jul 26 1991 10:488
And for those of you on the Cape, Boston Women's hosts the Summer Seven's at
the Barnstable high school, 9-6.  Sight of the infamous pink dress team (yes,
they all play in pink dresses), the turbo props, the all-Mary's (all named
Mary, they won last time I went), and many more.  I'll be there, I think I'm
picking up with the props, seeing as I was a prop in a former life and they
need players.

Rachael
8.709CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 26 1991 10:548
An all prop team "If we catch you, we'll kill ya...."

Gotta love it.

Tough, tough workout last night.  When I left the gym I was drained...totally
drained.  This shit better pay off once the season starts 8^)

'Saw
8.710are you a fast catNEMAIL::LEARYMFri Jul 26 1991 11:155
    'Saw,
    	Wif all yer training how's yer MPH?
    
    MikeL
    
8.711CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 26 1991 11:3332
Well, actually, running has been getting a little easier.  I haven't
done any speedwork yet, but I have been warming down on the lifecycle,
putting on a fair amount of resistence.  My legs get that same rubbery feeling
as I get during windsprints, so it must be doing some good 8^)

I don't know that I've knocked any time off my sprint times, but things
feel better.  I've been doing leg extensions and presses.

And besides, I'm still a prop.  We're not gonna win any races, but when
we hit ya,  you're gonna know you been hit.   

I think I said it in the 100 yard dash note.  I might take me 15 second
to run the hundred, but if I hit you at the other end, I'll kill ya 8^)


Another thing I've noticed is that while my weight has not gone down
(still hovering in between 225 and 230), my clothes are fitting differently.
Large t-shirts that used to be too tight in the stomach area are now too
tight in the chest and shoulders, while the stomach area is comfortable
again.  So, I must be redistributing some of this massive bulk.

I still want big guns.  I want to cut the sleeves off my jersies, and
have a decent set of guns hanging out there.  Pythons, not milk snakes. 8^)
So, that means plenty more work to do in the gym.  I'm getting there though.
I can see improvement after only a month...


I guess that's what keeps me going....
'Saw


PS  anyone have Rich Gedman's number?  I wanna challenge him to a race 8^)
8.713CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchFri Jul 26 1991 15:5214
Hawk --

7s tournaments are very often the "tongue-in-cheek" element of rugby.
Oh, to be sure there are some very serious 7s tournaments (Honk Kong 7s,
and locally the Harvard 7s), but there are also a lot of comical
7s tournaments.

The Womens tourney would be just your style and I suggest you go and
check it out.  The one team really does wear pink dresses (and it's a
yearly tradition from what I've heard.....)

Hope this schelps...

'Saw
8.714OZARDZ::WASKOMFri Jul 26 1991 17:388
    If it pours rain tomorrow, I may go see the 7's tourney.  If it don't,
    I'll be at a mowing contest in Sturbridge.....
    
    For those interested, the France v US game will be televised in the
    Boston area at 5:30 AM Sunday morning.  I'm gonna set up my VCR, and
    watch the debacle later.
    
    A&W
8.715Limeys get juicedEUSEBE::STURTPsycho milkmanMon Jul 29 1991 06:3331
8.716CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 29 1991 10:5428
Yahoo 7s.

I went for a while.  When I left, the Wanderers entry called the Banshees
was doing well in the Cup division, and our two other teams, the Nads
and the Yahoos had just battled it out in the Plate division, with the
Nads beating the Yahoos.

After that, terribly hung over from the night before, hot, and kicking
myself for having forgotten a lawn chair, I went home.  Ok, I wimped
out...


However, I did find out that practice starts on 8/13.  I also found
out that my workouts are at least noticeable, since Timmy, one of the
guys who rode me without mercy last spring, noticed right away that
I've done a little reshaping.

Also found out that Glen Judge didn't get any of the France games.
He was a bummed out dude when I talked with him, since he felt that
really hurt his chances for the World Cup.  I just told him to hang
in there...

Other than that, I've got a lot of work still to do in the remaining two
weeks left before practice starts.  I hope my workouts pay off.....



'Saw
8.718CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 29 1991 11:1526
>    So much for that only one friday night beer in your `hi-carb, lo-fat, 
>    protein takes care of itself' diet, eh, Sawman?  :-)
>    
>    Hawk


Nope.  I had planned for Friday night for a while.  I was our
Get V3.1 to Field Test Party. It was however, a NON-Digital Function 8^) 

I knew a body builder one time who told me that Hot Fudge Sundaes are
okay to eat....IF you plan for them, and work extra all week to offset
the "badness".

Well, I knew that Friday afternoon I'd be eating junk (chips, salsa etc etc)
and imbibing huge quantities of amber nectar.


There's nothing in the world like working extra hard and then rewarding
yourself.

BTW, the funniest thing you'd ever wanna see if the Chainsaw trying
to play croquet when he has a load on ......  (They had to stop me from
trying to crown everyone with the mallet, and they kept saying stuff
like "Damn ruggers....")   8^)

'Saw
8.719BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jul 29 1991 11:2523
	Boston Women's sevens on the Cape was a tremendous success, drawing
18 teams from the US and Canada, including ones from as far away as Quebec 
and Chicago.  It is the largest women's only seven's tourney in the US, and
therefore most likely in the world.
	I played for the Turbo Props, in memory of my earlier days.  I
played at scrum-half and had a great time.  We won two out of three games,
which was a big deal for the props, they usually lose every game.  (Sorry,
'Saw and Mac, but you know sevens and props)  I did pretty well, scored
one try in each of the first two games, but was squished often by the
opposing scrumhalf in the last game.  She was offsides often and was called
once or twice, but there were other things I could have done to defend against
her which I didn't think of until after the game.  My price to pay for playing
out of position.  This team had the best team play out of any pickup that I've
participated in, it was really nice to play with them.
	The finals came down to the All Mary's versus the Pink Dresses.
The dresses noticibly hampered the players, being long gowns for the most
part.  The game was, with one or two exceptions, a Beantown versus Beantown
event, with the All Mary's taking the title for the third year in a row.
	The party was great, the skits were really funny, a good time was
had by all.
	My arms are really tired still from all the tackling.

Rachael
8.720CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 29 1991 11:3917
Well, I have to pass on a story about a Prop.

There was this guy on the Hogs (Hofstra Old Boys entry) called "Heavy D".
He was a Refrigerator-like speciman that easily went 290.

Well, just to prove that even the biggest and slowest of us can score,
he broke one against the Nads.  He was in the right place at the right time,
and lumbered down the field.  The fastest Nad finally caught him at about
the 5 meter line, but because he was so small he went for the ball.  Heavy
D swatted him away like a fly and scored the try.

He tried the same thing against the Banshees in the next match, but
Cahal brought him down from behind in one of the best open field tackles
I've ever seen....


'Saw
8.721same thing happened to me w/Ashley!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Mon Jul 29 1991 11:451
    
8.722WMOIS::COOK_TSmithwick's @ McSwiggins=HeavenMon Jul 29 1991 12:5012
    re .718
    
    I'm starting to wonder, first it's square-dancing, now it's croquet!
    
    I think I'll pass on rugby!
    
    8^)
    
    Tom
    
    BTW..Saw, do you folks have anything to do with PAMS?
    
8.723CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 29 1991 13:0538
>    
>    I'm starting to wonder, first it's square-dancing, now it's croquet!
>    

No.  The party was a WORK related party.  I don't usually play "lawn-games"
unless I've got a good buzz going.  

This however, was like the ultimate.  If you're familiar with golf, and
you've ever seen any of Pete Dye's course, well, this was like the
Pete Dye Ultimate Croquet course.

The hardest part was the far peg was in a rattlesnake den.  I could handle
the poison-ivy near the center wicket no problem.  

The rest of the course was like an undulating greeen on a tough golf
course...

And hey, regardless of what anyone says, any game where you can legally
carry a club around throughout ALL of play, is a manly game.


>    I think I'll pass on rugby!

But you haven't even seen it yet.....;^)
    

    
>    BTW..Saw, do you folks have anything to do with PAMS?

Not really.  We have integreated DECMessageQ (ie PAMS) into BASEstar.
PAMS came out of the Ct District.  While our group started in the
CT District (as the BASEway/DNC group) we've since moved into Central
Engineering.  The PAMS folks might have done the same but I'm not sure.....


'Saw
    

8.724Worcester 7's - Aug. 10CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jul 29 1991 16:059
    small nit:  The Strollers just kind of disbanded.  Some went to the
    Wanderers, others went to New Haven.  If there was a merger of two
    clubs, it was more of a New Haven/Berlin merger than a Hartford/Berlin
    one.
    
    Worcester RFC will be hosting a 7s tournament on August 10 at Burncoat
    Jr. (?) High School.  I'll be there with the WPI Old Boys (or if all
    else fails with the Dead Smilies).  If you're interested in attending
    the tourney, send me mail and I'll send you more details.
8.725CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 29 1991 16:1419
>    small nit:  The Strollers just kind of disbanded.  Some went to the
>    Wanderers, others went to New Haven.  If there was a merger of two
>    clubs, it was more of a New Haven/Berlin merger than a Hartford/Berlin
>    one.


Right.  I was just taking journalistic license with the facts 8^)
    
>    Worcester RFC will be hosting a 7s tournament on August 10 at Burncoat
>    Jr. (?) High School.  I'll be there with the WPI Old Boys (or if all
>    else fails with the Dead Smilies).  If you're interested in attending
>    the tourney, send me mail and I'll send you more details.

Are there 6 other guys out there who'd like to enter as the PeeWee
Hermans with me?

I figure we could play with condoms on our haids, and fake beards...
Might be fun 8^)

8.726CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jul 29 1991 17:3610
    Glenn Judge was ripped apart in a recent "Rugby" article.  The author
    couldn't imagine why such an inexperienced player was in there.  He
    felt this was compounded by the choice of a rookie scrumhalf.
    
    IMO I think the selectors did the right thing.  These matches preceding
    the World Cup are a perfect opportunity to see how the backups will
    perform under test match conditions.  There was plenty of opportunity
    to get everyone a game with the Scotland, France, and Japan tours and
    the annual Canadian matches.  The author of the article was probably
    from California...
8.727CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jul 29 1991 17:4114
    Speaking of California...
    
    The California blockade was dealt a serious blow when Ian Nixon became
    the head of the USA Rugby Football Union.  There is alot of gnashing of
    teeth going on over this election/appointment, but Ian has always been
    good for US rugby from what I could tell.
    
    BTW, my references to CA are due to the fact that the majority of
    administrators and players on the national level are all from CA.  I
    think it's kind of fishy when one Union (actually, 1 Club - OMBAC) can
    place this many people.  On the playing level this has been apparent
    during the Interterritorial championships where the Pacific Coast has
    been outplayed on the field yet still had the lion's share of
    placements on the Eagles.
8.728CAM::WAYHigh Toned Son of a BitchMon Jul 29 1991 17:5828
Mac, I read that article about Glen.

What most people won't know in reading it, is what Glen was told when
he was selected.

The Eagles coach told him "You're there for your kicking, anything else
is gravy".   Obviously, with Higgins out early, part of Glen's kicking game
went out the window.  With no "flyboy" to cover the long hangers that Glen
kicks, you're partially screwed.

We used to use Faustie under those before he busted his leg.  While he was
out we used Al Deken.


The choice of rookie scrumhalf was the other fellow from the Eastern
Select Side who plays with Glen.

You're right, the author had to be from California ....8^)


One thing I've heard about a lot of the Eagles from the west is that
they are Rugby "Whores" in that they go around to whatever club looks
like it might have the best chances at the National championship.  Lately
that's been OMBAC.....


fwiw,
'Saw
8.729Somewhat irrelevant...BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jul 29 1991 18:0931
    In contrast to what Mac reports about the men's union, we are accused
    of the same thing but I don't think it's true.
    
    In the women's union, the East has been accused of stacking the Eagles.
    
    After coaching the US team to a world cup victory, and Beantown to
    our fifth National title under him, our coach was not even asked
    to coach the Eagles this next year, due to complaints about selections.
    The assistant coach, from Minnesota (originally from South Africa, and
    our coach is from Wales) resigned in protest.
    
    Beantown has often been accused of over-representation on select sides.
    However, because the other teams in the East, with the exception of
    FSU and Maryland, don't give us consistant competition, players from
    all over move to join us.  So, there's less top players scattered among
    the East clubs then their might otherwise be.  In addition, there  are
    some talented players out there that are not getting the coaching
    we are, which makes it harder for them to compete.
    
    I used to play for Boston, but eventually came to the conclusion that,
    given how much I love the game, it was better to play for Beantown and
    perhaps never make A-side then to stick with Boston.  I have many good
    friends on Boston and they have quite a few good players, but they
    don't have the coaching we do.
    
    So, while I'm sure there's bogus politics going on everywhere in the
    Union (although I really think the East is pretty clean), don't
    always think a stacking of players is a sign of cheating.  Sometimes
    the teams are just stacked.
    
    Rachael
8.730BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jul 31 1991 10:438
We go to Saranac this weekend, reportedly the largest 15's tourney in the
US.  We're a little low on some of the forward positions for this tourney,
but of course, we have 17 flankers going.

If anyone's going to be in upstate New York, just check the local papers.
The games are held in Saranac and Lake Placid.

Rachael
8.731WRFC going...notCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jul 31 1991 18:497
    The WRFC was supposed to go to Saranac, but there has been a mixup over
    the entry fee.  The way I heard it, we sent in a check to enter the
    1990 tournament, but the tournament was already full.  We asked them to
    put the check towards the 1991 tournament and they said OK.  When the
    pairings came out and we weren't in them we wondered what had happened
    but haven't been able to get ahold of anyone from the Saranac Lake RFC
    to find out what happened.
8.732CAM::WAYHigh-Toned Son of a BitchThu Aug 01 1991 11:0820
>              <<< Note 8.731 by CHIEFF::MACNEAL "ruck `n' roll" >>>
>                             -< WRFC going...not >-
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


	Ruck on Garth!

	Scrum down, Wayne.



In other related news, it seems the guy who plays the Rocketeer in that
movie this summer is a former Chicago Lions Flanker.  (See Rachael, the
flankers get all the great stuff.  He got the movie role, he got the girl
in the movie in real life.  Wouldya ever see a prop gettin' that lucky?
NOT)


'Saw

8.733BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Aug 01 1991 12:238
>> Wouldya ever see a prop gettin' that lucky?

	One did once, I went out with one for three years...

	Now I go out with a flanker, and when we fight, it's like the clash
of the incredible egos.

Rachael
8.734CAM::WAYHigh-Toned Son of a BitchThu Aug 01 1991 12:3216
>>> Wouldya ever see a prop gettin' that lucky?
>
>	One did once, I went out with one for three years...

Good answer.  

>	Now I go out with a flanker, and when we fight, it's like the clash
>of the incredible egos.

Too funny.


Party on Rachael....


'Saw
8.735OZARDZ::WASKOMThu Aug 01 1991 12:486
    Rachel -
    
    Have a wonderful time.  We managed to get to Saranac once for the
    tournament, and it was beautiful.  Ruggers really take over both towns.
    
    A&W
8.737CAM::WAYHigh-Toned Son of a BitchThu Aug 01 1991 14:2813
Hawk/Sig --

(Hawk/Sig?  No, actually I have vision of tumultuous masses of frenzied
people, right arm raised forward, yelling "Sig Hawk! Sig Hawk").....


This is too cool.  A really split personality case here in Sports.   
We could probably get a lot of mileage out of it.  BTW, whatever happened
to Laverne?


'Saw

8.739BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Aug 01 1991 15:4220
Sig,
	OK, just get me a photo of you in that excellent uniform she had
on, with a terrfied child in one arm, fireblasting alien eggs.  If you 
can recapture her words at the time, that would help... 



Alison, thanks for the good luck wishes.  I missed Saranac last year, but
was there the previous two.  I am really looking forward to it.  Maybe I'll
see you there another year or something.  I have to leave early today to
go to the dentist (yeah!), so just one more hour and then I'll be out
of here not to return until post-tourney.  I'm even looking forward to
driving there, it should be really pretty.

And 'Saw, you just set me up with the best lines, I can't resist.  You're
a good straight man (har har har har har har.....)

I'd better enter this before things get any sillier.

Rachael
8.740Meet the WRFC Tonight!AGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 01 1991 20:177
    I know this is late, but putting the house together and all (my
    priorities have been really screwed up lateley ;^) )...
    
    The WRFC is holding an Open House tonight at Stoney O'Brien's on
    Millbury Street in Worcester.  Anyone interested in learning more about
    rugby, especially those who would like to play rugby is invited to
    attend.  Festivities will start at 7:30 pm.
8.741CAM::WAYHigh-Toned Son of a BitchFri Aug 02 1991 10:5814
Got a letter in the mail from the Wanderers yesterday.

Seems we're gonna be hosting some English club (forget which), and 
a match will be played in Colt Park on Tuesday Aug 20.  I'll let you
know more details later.

Pete the Dick (our Vice Captain) sent the letter out and he said that
we are going to "host them well, and show them what America is like,
show them hospitality, then kick the shit out of them on the pitch"

I'm all for that....


'Saw
8.7435th Annual Worcester 7sCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 02 1991 12:3119
    		5th Annual Worcester Seven-A-Side Tournament
    
    			Saturday, August 10, 1991
    			9:00 am - 5:00 pm (approx.)
    			Burncoat Sr. High School
    			Burncoat Street
    			Worcester, MA
    
    A portion of the proceeds from the tournament will be donated to the
    following charities:
    
    		Mike Minty Memorial Scholarship Fund
    			Cystic Fibrosis
    		Sports Alive - Worcester Public Schools
    
    Awards ceremonies and tournament party will be held at Stoney O'Brien's
    on Millbury St. in Worcester following the final match.
    
    If you need more information, please contact me at CNTROL::MACNEAL
8.744BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Aug 05 1991 16:4139
	Saranac was awesome.  Unfortunately, I don't have much time to write,
as usual lately.

	One of the best parts of this tourney is the location, nestled in
the something mountains in New York.  It is absolutely beautiful around there,
and is one six hour drive I don't mind too much.  Just driving to the pitches
was nice.  And we go by the Olympic ski jump area in Lake Placid, which
is utterly wild.  I can't believe people do that, it looks dangerous to me!

	We played four matches.  The first two were against Canadien teams,
the Toronto (I think) Saracens and a team from Brampton. We played the
first team with very little effort, bringing the ball in to work it some 
more rather then bringing it out for easy tries.  We only went with intensity
at all in the last few minutes of the game after we lost on of our best
flankers to an elbow in the collar bone (broken).  I think the halves were
22.5 minutes each, and the final score was 50-0.   I played in that game,
it was fun but not too challenging.
	We played Brampton in an extremely dirty match, also short halves,
to a score of 40-0.  Everybody was pretty disgusted afterwards, as it wasn't
fun to play such a dirty game, but our coach reminded us that we had outscored
our opposition for the day 90-0, and we shouldn't be so down.
	We played Hartford in the semi-finals, for the first real challenge
of the weekend.  It was a nice game, good rugby with sporting opposition.
I think these halves were 25 minutes, and the final score was 28-0. 
	Finally, we met Blue Sisters, the West territorial selects, in the
finals.  I played in this match, my first finals with Beantown.  It was an
exciting game, a decent but not mindblowing pace and lots of hard work.  I
didn't get to breakdowns out the back line as fast as I would have liked,
but did have some good play as well.  We beat them 2?-4.  (I think 28 also,
but I'm not sure).  I'm still pissed at the try they made, they got second
phase from a ruck and ran it down the weak side.  The weak side wing and I were
stuck in the ruck, and I don't know who else missed her.  It was really stupid,
but was late enough in the game so we didn't have to worry.  

	I think two NY teams met  for the men's club finals, and Mystics
versus Old Blue for the men's A finals.  I don't know the results yet of
either.

Rachael
8.745CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineMon Aug 05 1991 17:3033
>I'm still pissed at the try they made, they got second
>phase from a ruck and ran it down the weak side.  The weak side wing and I were
>stuck in the ruck, and I don't know who else missed her.  It was really stupid,
>but was late enough in the game so we didn't have to worry.  

Hey, shit happens 8^)

BLAM the weak side wing.  What was she doing in a ruck anyway?  I mean, 
backs do everything in the world to avoid rucking at all costs... it might
mess up their hair 8^)

Where was the fullback?  Or was it deep in your own end with not much
room to run her down?

Weak side stuff can be tough to shut down.  It took us a whole half against
New Haven last fall.  They came out, and it seemed that on 75% of the
rucks and/or scrums they'd go weak side.  Quite often it took some fleet-footed
running from our fullback, or really heads up play from the flankers to
cut it off.  They scored 10 points on us in the first half. (2 tries,
converted one).

It took us that first half to adjust.  Then we shut 'em down in the 2nd
and scored 38 ourselves...



AT ANY RATE CONGRATS!

Sounds like you ladies out to spread the wealth with some of the other
teams.  Don't seem to have much competition in New England.....


'Saw
8.746Do ski jumpers think rugby is dangerous ???SHALOT::HUNTRIP, Chris ShortMon Aug 05 1991 17:5711
8.747Get the electrical tape...TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Mon Aug 05 1991 18:368
Speaking of Sigourney...

Did anyone see Sigourney Weaver (not Szabo) in yesterday's Parade magazine with 
a shaved haid?

HuminaHuminaHumina

=Bob=
8.748GagCARROL::LEFEBVREA who a say dere ain't no Jah?Mon Aug 05 1991 19:303
    Sigourney Weaver makes me power hurl.
    
    Mark.
8.749OZARDZ::WASKOMMon Aug 05 1991 21:1411
    It's the Adirondack mountains.  I both ski and watch rugby, and I think
    ski jumping is more crazed than rugby..... 
    
    Beantown definitely seems to have a lock on East Coast Women's rugby. 
    Do you guys have any real competition *anywhere*???
    
    'Saw, at one point you posted the Wanderer's schedule from 9/14 through
    10/26.  Have you gotten the rest of it yet, or is it coming in bits
    and pieces?  Mac, what about the Worcester schedule?
    
    A&W 
8.750Early morning rugby babbleBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Aug 06 1991 10:5438
	I forgot to mention this beautiful try our scrumhalf scored in the
finals.  It was 0-0 in the first half, we had something, either a ruck or
a scrum (I think it must have been a ruck, since we didn't walk over) near
the try line.  She took it and lept through the air Bobby Orr style to score.
It was incredible.  I was just getting to her as she was completely horizontal
about 2 or 3 feet in the air.  One of the prettiest tries I've seen.
	Our competition on the East Coast is Florida State University, or
FSU.  Not really a school team, they just get some funding from them.  They've
won Nationals four times (to our five), and have beat Beantown many times,
although not in the last year or two.  Other major competetors include the
Bay Area SheHawks (Silicon Valley) and Belmont Shore (also CA).
	Chicago has a good club, and there are a few others in the MidWest
that come up and down with a good side.  Maryland beat us last year, but
I honestly think that was a fluke.  We played abysmally, which we do every
now and then.  There are a few more California teams that beat us last Spring.
	I think there's two levels of competition, those that can beat us
in a good game, and those that can beat us if we're off.  Right now, I think
we proved ourselves at Nationals with the scores we had that nobody can beat
us if we're on.  But there are a bunch of teams that can take advantage of
any slip-ups we have.
	It's a weird spot to be in.  The better you do, the better you want
to do.  I was so excited about playing in the finals at Saranac, but now that
I did it, there are a million things about how I played that I want to do
better next time.  It's also extremely competetive.  When I joined Beantown,
I knew I might be kissing goodby my chances to ever own an A-side spot, but
I decided (and I still believe) that I'm playing the best ball as is, without
that.
	
On a related topic, 

	The USRFU had better get its act together if they want the US women
to remain on top.  Our experience is only going to last us so long, with women
from other countries being fully funded with coaching, clubhouses (w/video
in the lockerroom, etc) and travel money, while the US Eagles paid for 
EVERYTHING on their own.  The ERU gave the East players $100 each, which
was pretty generous considering most (80%) of their money goes to the USRFU.

Rachael
8.751CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 06 1991 11:1156
Well, I've got a schedule card, but it was printed up early in the year
and I don't know if everything is intact.  Sometimes things change.

The 9/14 thru 10/26 was the league season.  I'm still kind of pissed
that when Amoskeag came in and took Old Gold's spot, they didn't pick up
Old Gold's home and aways, because that means I've got one more long drive
than I should have.


I'm looking forward to the fall season, and dreading it at the same time.
I know the drill now, so all the "newness" has worn off.  Rucking drills
have ceased to be exciting long ago, but I'm wondering just how much of
that attitude was from being out of shape in the spring.

I'm apprehensive about how the workouts will affect my play this fall.
I mean, I worked very hard over the summer, but I don't want the attitude
that by having worked out, I'll magically be a better player.   I guess
the way to describe it is that this "nervousness" is like the jitters
I get before kickoff.  Until that first hit, maul or ruck, I'm always
jittery.  After that I settle in.

I know one thing.  The only way I'll be watching SNL this fall will be
on tape, because on Saturday nights, I'm asleep by  10:30 during the season.
The bod just shuts down....


From the schedule card:

	 8/24	Monmouth Tournament	Away
	 8/31   White Plains		Home
	 9/7    Manhattan		Home
         9/14   Charles River           Home
	 9/21   New Haven		Away
	 9/28   Amoskeag 		Away
	10/5    Beacon Hill		home
	10/12	Boston			Home
	10/19   Providence		Away
	10/26	Mystic River		Away
	11/2	Albany			Away
	11/9	Worcester		Away


White Plains is a grudge match.  After they beat us to win the Ct Cup, 
we turned around and beat them to win Mad River.  They have a former
Eagle, whose name just slipped my mind, but the guy's a bastard.

New Haven is a grudge match.  We beat them in the Ct Cup on the disputed
try late in the game.  New Haven has been playing better and better
and will be tricky.

The last four Aways suck too....


Guess I'm just in a pissy mood this morning........8^)

'Saw
8.752BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Aug 06 1991 11:4520
	Asleep by 10:30?  Do you sleep in the bar?  I can't imagine being
home that early and I don't even drink much.
	'Saw, I think you'll really notice the work you've been doing this
summer.  Even if you're doing a drill which doesn't require great strength,
being fit will make it easier to concentrate on your coordination, and will
make practice infintitely more enjoyable.
	I got bored of rucking drills a long time ago, but I have yet to feel
like I've mastered rucking.  I don't think you can ever quit those kinds
of drills, especially running lines.  You just have to keep identifying new
goal with them.  Make sure you practice both sides, think about your ball
placement, where you carry it on the way in, what you do with your arm after
you post (if you guys post, we're in the posting is evil stage but that's
another story) etc etc.  Your timing as you hit, your angle, your drive...
	'Saw, it sounds like you have a pretty exciting Fall schedule, with
a bunch of matches with something riding on them.  Get psyched!

Rachael

PS  Hawk, I got a birthday present from two of my teammates this weekend,
wrapped in newspaper and, you guessed it, electrical tape.
8.753CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 06 1991 11:5552
>	Asleep by 10:30?  Do you sleep in the bar?  I can't imagine being
>home that early and I don't even drink much.

There were a few LATE parties last fall.  One of the best was the drinkup
that kind of moved to Greg Orler's house.  Too cool.

My major problems is that I don't like to drink that much when I drive
home.  If I stay late at the drinkup I tend to drink ( a lot) and then
I have to do the "watch the middle of the three road signs" to find my
way home.  NOT cool.  So I leave early-ish (say 9 or so).  Once home,
the let down is quick...

>	'Saw, I think you'll really notice the work you've been doing this
>summer.  Even if you're doing a drill which doesn't require great strength,
>being fit will make it easier to concentrate on your coordination, and will
>make practice infintitely more enjoyable.

I hope so.  I've been working hard for just over a month, and if that will
make it just a tad easier this fall, I'll be satisfied, and have some
good inspiration to work REALLY hard this winter...


>	I got bored of rucking drills a long time ago, but I have yet to feel
>like I've mastered rucking.  I don't think you can ever quit those kinds
>of drills, especially running lines.  You just have to keep identifying new
>goal with them.  Make sure you practice both sides, think about your ball
>placement, where you carry it on the way in, what you do with your arm after
>you post (if you guys post, we're in the posting is evil stage but that's
>another story) etc etc.  Your timing as you hit, your angle, your drive...

Rucking drills are like going to the dentist.  Very necessary, but not
fun 8^)

My biggest goal this fall is two fold:  learn to use my weight more
efficiently.  Hey, I'm never gonna win any races, but I do know that the
weight on this frame can be a lethal weapon if used properly.

The second goal is to carry the ball more, and just "Be the Clydesdale" when
I do....


>	'Saw, it sounds like you have a pretty exciting Fall schedule, with
>a bunch of matches with something riding on them.  Get psyched!


Yep, that's what makes tha fall great!

>PS  Hawk, I got a birthday present from two of my teammates this weekend,
>wrapped in newspaper and, you guessed it, electrical tape.

Jeez, Rachael, now Hawk will have an all-day woodie 8^)

8.754More morning rugby ramblingsMAXWEL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 06 1991 12:4927
    The WRFC was approached by 2 women last night at our monthly executive
    committee meeting who are looking to form a women's rugby club in
    Worcester.  I forgot to bring their names in, but when I do, I'll post
    them here.  Their first year goal is to get enough women interested to
    play a few matches against some of the area college women's teams. 
    Clark University has a team as does WPI.  Worcester State has a few
    interested players who have linked up with WPI until they can form
    their own club at State.
    
    Worcester starts practicing next week.  I'm kind of dreading it since I
    haven't been making the time to work out, opting to get our new house
    livable instead.  'Saw, Rachael's right.  You will notice the
    difference.  And even if you don't, others will.  I hear you on the
    early crash and burn on Saturday nights.  I'm OK until I get home and
    sit down (or get in the car when my wife drives us home from road
    games).
    
    A&W (and other interested parties), I finally have the WRFC fall
    schedule.  I'll put it in tomorrow (I forgot to drop a copy into my
    briefcase this morning).  It took awhile because of all the revisions
    going on in the Maxwell (NERFU Div. II) League.
    
    I also have directions to the Worcester 7s for this Saturday for anyone
    who would like to stop by.  It looks like we'll have a full field of 24
    teams for the tournament!  We have 18-20 paid already.  There are a few
    "checks in the mail" (one is mine for the WPI Old Boys), so things are
    looking good.
8.755MAXWEL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 06 1991 13:095
    'Saw, the player for White Plains that you were trying to think of is
    Gary Lambert.  He is arguably the best player to ever play for the US
    in both 15s and 7s.  He was even named to the World XV in a match
    played against Australia to celebrate the Australian Bicentennial, and
    was the only Eagle on the team.
8.757CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 06 1991 13:4515
>    'Saw, the player for White Plains that you were trying to think of is
>    Gary Lambert.  He is arguably the best player to ever play for the US
>    in both 15s and 7s.  He was even named to the World XV in a match
>    played against Australia to celebrate the Australian Bicentennial, and
>    was the only Eagle on the team.

Oh, I don't doubt that.  He *is* something to watch.  But he's a 
"dirty bastard" to quote an Irish guy I know.  He's the guy in the Moussy
ad too, in Rugby all the time.

So, I'll get to see him again this fall.  I doubt I'll play against him 
though...8^)

'Saw

8.758OZARDZ::WASKOMTue Aug 06 1991 16:217
    'Saw -
    
    Many thanks.  It was the early season stuff I was most interested in,
    and since much of it is home, I'll try to be there.  :-)  They sound
    like fun games.
    
    A&W
8.759CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 06 1991 16:257
Well, as I said, White Plains is no doubt a grudge match.  

Manhattan is unknown, but they're in the Met Union and I tend not to like
teams from the Met Union....

'Course, all of that supposes that I survive next week, when practice starts
yet again 8^)
8.761CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 06 1991 17:595
>    Sawpropbuttman, remind us of the Amoskeag game when the time comes,
>    including directions.  That one's close enough for me to stop by...
    
Right.  No problems mate...    

8.762BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Aug 07 1991 11:224
	The old other half there was invited to Eagles development camp in
Colorado this September.  

Rachael
8.763CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineWed Aug 07 1991 12:023
Hey, Congrats!

That's really something.
8.764Directions to Worcester 7sSMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 07 1991 12:3916
    Here are the directions to this Saturday's Worcester 7s tournament at
    Burncoat High School.
    
    From I-290 E:  Get off 290 at Exit 20 (Rt. 70-Burncoat St.-Lincoln St.) 
    Stay to the right or you'll end up on 190.  Turn left at the lights
    onto Burncoat St.  Proceed through 2 sets of lights and at the top of
    the hill on the right will be Burncoat HS.  Pitches and parking are
    behind the school.
    
    From I-290 W:  Get off 290 at Exit 20 (Rt. 70-Burncoat St.-Lincoln St.) 
    Go straight through the first set of lights.  At 2nd set of lights turn
    right onto Burncoat St.  Proceed through 1st set of lights and up a
    hill.  School is on the right at top of hill.
    
    The first games will kick off at 9 am.  The tournament will run until
    about 5 pm.
8.765WRFC Fall ScheduleSMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 07 1991 12:4719
                    WORCESTER RFC FALL SCHEDULE
    
    Aug. 24	New Haven 			New Haven, CT
    Aug. 31	Holiday Weekend			No Game
    Sep.  7	Newport				Newport, RI
    Sep. 14	Open Weekend			No Game
    Sep. 21	Burlington			Home
    Sep. 28	Springfield			Home
    Oct.  5	Boston Irish			Boston, MA
    Oct. 12	Harvard Business School		Boston, MA
    Oct. 19	Old Gold			Home
    Oct. 26	Portland			Portland, ME
    Nov.  2	Boston				Home (Tentative)
    Nov.  9	Hartford			Home
    
    Home games are played at 1 pm at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave.
    in Worcester, MA.  Nov. 2 is an Eastern Region playoff weekend.  The
    Boston match is subject to Worcester and Boston not making the
    playoffs.
8.766Worcester Women's RugbyAGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 09 1991 12:275
    As promised, here are the names and phone numbers of the folks trying
    to organize a women's rugby club in Worcester, MA.
    
    Miriam Rogers  (508) 882-3357
    Angela Cornacchioli  (508) 799-4073
8.767They had Van Halen on the stereo too!!! 8^)CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineFri Aug 09 1991 14:0029
Another hard workout last night.

Went a little easier on the legs than I have been, because they'd been
a tad tight, but I just blasted my lower back.  Had 170 on the lower back
machine and went nuts.   Hopefully that will help against those tough
props across the line.

Sat on the bike for a while afterwards to work the kinks out while I 
read the People article on Jeff Dahmer.  Every time I'd get tired I'd just
pedal faster imaging old Jeff wanted to eat a piece of the Chainsaw.

Arms are gettin' there too.  Nowhere near like I want them, but better.

I've been watching what I eat, and doing my normal amount of exercise,
but I've put weight on.  I'm back to 235 and I haven't noticed any
more fat getting on the body.  Could it be that this is (gasp) muscle?

At this point I've done about all I can do for the upcoming season.
I can't be blasting myself anymore, until I know how the body is gonna deal
with rugby workouts, runs and lifting.  Once I know that, I'll know better
what I can handle.

I do know that once the offseason is here, the Chainsaw is gonna be
a freakin' gym lunatic...

And hey folks, this is steroid free....


'Saw
8.768BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Aug 12 1991 12:504
'Saw, you're just 15 lbs short of two flankers!  You must be awfully quick...

Rachael
(Completely out of shape, but it's been a nice summer)
8.769CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineMon Aug 12 1991 13:0024
>'Saw, you're just 15 lbs short of two flankers!  You must be awfully quick...

Ahem....  Make that two flankers of the female persuasion, and you're right.
Wanderers flankers are usually in the 180lb range 8^)

But, now you're talking.

I've never been FAST, but I've always been quick.  There's a difference
between the two things, believe me 8^)

I notice it a lot playing hoops out here.  I mean, I suck at hoops, and
our hoops games always involve a lot of contact, but it takes a lot to
get around me, because I can always match that first move, and then
they have this prop-butted guy to try to get around.  Plus I'm not averse
to clearing out pesky little 150pounders with an arm sweep...

I still have some fat too lost (oh yeah)...

Ideally, I guess, I'd like to be in the proper shape to weigh about 
220 and play loosehead.  That's still a way away I think, but with the
weight workouts and all I think I'm headed in the right direction....

'Saw

8.770Worcester 7sCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Aug 12 1991 19:2529
    Had a great time on Saturday playing in the Worcester 7s.  I was a
    little worried about having only 8 players for the WPI Old Boys, but
    since we only had to play 3 games, it worked out OK.  24 teams competed
    on the day.  The first round matches were a roundrobin format with 8
    brackets of 3 teams each.  The first place team from each bracket went
    into the cup competition, the second place team to the plate
    competition, and the 3rd place team to the bowl competition.  The later
    rounds were all single elimination.
    
    OMEX (NY) won the Cup over the Flying Disciples (WRFC).  South Jersey
    defeated the Homeboys (WRFC) to win the Plate.  Amoskeag (NH) defeated
    Dartmouth (I think) to win the Bowl.
    
    The WPI Old Boys went 1-2 on the day.  We lost our first match 12-0 to
    Spare Parts (Stamford, CT).  We won our second match by a score of 3-0
    over Old Gold B (Boston).  The ref said he had never seen such a low
    scoring 7-a-side game in his life.  It definitely wasn't pretty. 
    Winning that game was our first mistake of the day.  That put us in the
    Plate division where we made our second mistake of the day.  We played
    South Jersey and scored first.  That just seemed to make S.Jersey mad
    as they proceeded to rack up 32 unanswered points.
    
    Worcester was represented in 5 of the participating teams.  3 teams
    were entirely WRFC products - the Homeboys, the Flying Disciples, and
    the Dead Smileys (most of this team could enter a 200+ lbs.
    tournament).  MESO was a combination of WRFC and Beacon Hill players. 
    I headed up the WPI Old Boys which featured players from WRFC, WPI,
    Hartford, Schenectady, and some club in Philly.
    
8.771CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineMon Aug 12 1991 19:4730
>    OMEX (NY) won the Cup over the Flying Disciples (WRFC).  South Jersey
>    defeated the Homeboys (WRFC) to win the Plate.  Amoskeag (NH) defeated
>    Dartmouth (I think) to win the Bowl.

I'm suprised about Dartmouth.  They won the Yahoo 7s Cup.  But, it is
7s and who knows who's gonna show on any given week....

    
>    The WPI Old Boys went 1-2 on the day.  We lost our first match 12-0 to
>    Spare Parts (Stamford, CT).  

Tough team.  They beat our best 7s side, The Banshees in the Yahoos...


>    Worcester was represented in 5 of the participating teams.  3 teams
>    were entirely WRFC products - the Homeboys, the Flying Disciples, and
>    the Dead Smileys (most of this team could enter a 200+ lbs.
>    tournament).  MESO was a combination of WRFC and Beacon Hill players. 
>    I headed up the WPI Old Boys which featured players from WRFC, WPI,
>    Hartford, Schenectady, and some club in Philly.

Dead Smileys, eh?  Too cool.  I'll bet I can guess which dudes were on
that team.

Who played from Hartford?  Doug?


'Saw
    

8.772World CupEDUOZ::THURGARMon Aug 12 1991 22:1017
    Just for your interest.
    
    I watched Australia play the All Blacks on Saturday in Sydney.
    Australia won 21-12 in front of 45,000 people. The atmosphere was
    great. Australia has now beaten Wales (convincingly), England (the five
    nations champions) and now the almost invincible all blacks. Must be o
    good chance for the World Cup coming up soon. The real test comes in
    two weeks with the return game in New Zealand.
    
    The Aussie scrum was dominant. First time I have seen an All Black
    scrum go backwards consistently. The rucking and mauling from both
    sides was very professional. The line outs left a lot to be desired
    (jumping across). Backline moves were almost non existent with the game
    being possession and field position based. Lots of accurate kicking
    from bothe sides.
    
    Madge
8.773OZ TRIUMPHSEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredTue Aug 13 1991 06:5933
8.774BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Aug 13 1991 11:1118
 mymymymymy....I didn't know the All Blacks ever lost.  Not the male ones,
anyways.  It sounds like an exciting game to watch, I'd like to see it on
tape someday.

	Mac, what about the party  for the tournament?  Don't forget the
reason we all play...  And what's up for WPI this Fall?  Beantown is hosting
a coaching clinic for women in Cambridge September 15, if they could go to
that they'd learn a lot.  The club's been offering it for a long time, it
was the first rugby-related activity I ever went to, seven years ago.  I 
learned a lot then, and I still learn a lot every time we give it.

	We have practice tonight but I think I'm going to stay home
and sleep.  Our season now goes until the first weekend of December,
thanks to territorials being moved to the Fall (to match the men's 
schedule, supposedly), so I'll get enough practices which I can't skip
later.

Rachael
8.775CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 13 1991 11:1114
Well, it certainly sounds like the All-Blacks might have a few chinks
in their armor afterall.

Unfortunately, the Eagles are in that pool for the World Cup, with England,
the All-Blacks and Italy.

If I'm not mistaken, it was the Aussies who handed the All-Blacks their
first international loss in over 50 tests last summer....


fwiw, I like Scotland as the dark horse in the WC....


'Saw
8.776CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 13 1991 11:1317
Well, 

Tonight's the night.  We see if all the hard work of the past 6 or 7
weeks is up to another season of rugby.

I'm motivated, no doubt, but I'm also nervous after last spring.  I guess
I'll just have to take it as it comes, but I can't help second guessing
myself....  

Should I have done a few more reps of this, should I have done that instead.
Should I have worked with free weights instead of Nautilus....

Who knows.  I do know that I've got a couple of weeks of hard work coming
up before the first game.  We'll see how it all goes...


'Saw
8.777AGNT99::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 13 1991 14:4623
    Yes, 'Saw, Doug was the HWRFC representative on the WPI Old Boys.  I
    also met your new flanker from the Harlequins.  I forgot to ask who he
    was playing for that day.  I was wearing a Texas RU Championship
    T-shirt (Austin hosted it last year), and he saw it and came up to me. 
    I asked him if he knew you or Doug, but he said he hasn't been in
    Hartford long enough to know any names yet.
    
    Everybody seemed to be having a very good time at the post tournament
    party.  As seems to be the case with rugby parties lately, there was
    very little singing and everyone was pretty much in control.
    
    Worcester is looking to sponsor a collegiate coaching clinic on Sept.
    15 also.  I'm probably going to be coaching at WPI again this fall,
    hopefully with the help of a teammate or two.  As far as I know WPI
    will again have a women's team (with a little help from Worcester
    State).
    
    Tonight is our first training as well, 'Saw.  It looks like I'll be
    playing myself into shape again this season.  With one of our props
    moving back to Ireland, the position is pretty much mine to lose, but
    I'll have to bust my butt to keep it.  After playing in 3 7s matches
    last weekend and going to a couple of 7s practices last week, I'm not
    as worried about that 2 month layoff that I had this summer.
8.778CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineTue Aug 13 1991 15:4129
>
>    Yes, 'Saw, Doug was the HWRFC representative on the WPI Old Boys.  I
>    also met your new flanker from the Harlequins.  I forgot to ask who he
>    was playing for that day.  I was wearing a Texas RU Championship
>    T-shirt (Austin hosted it last year), and he saw it and came up to me. 
>    I asked him if he knew you or Doug, but he said he hasn't been in
>    Hartford long enough to know any names yet.

Cahal.  We call him Al sometimes (as in Al-cohol)...

He'd know me if he saw me...  He seems nice enough....
    
    
>    Tonight is our first training as well, 'Saw.  It looks like I'll be
>    playing myself into shape again this season.  With one of our props
>    moving back to Ireland, the position is pretty much mine to lose, but
>    I'll have to bust my butt to keep it.  After playing in 3 7s matches
>    last weekend and going to a couple of 7s practices last week, I'm not
>    as worried about that 2 month layoff that I had this summer.

Well, I'm still apprehensive.  Haven't done much speed work.  Last week
slacked off on the running, but have been doing some bike work in the
gym.  

I'll report tomorrow....


'Saw

8.779 World Cup prediction ??EDUOZ::THURGARWed Aug 14 1991 03:0835
    World Cup information
    
    The All Blacks, although beaten by Australia are still the team to
    beat. At the moment they are tired from a hard international and
    domestic season. They have injuries from the hard grounds in the
    Argentine. Dont write them off. They are far too good and proud a team
    to let one loss upset them. There maybe some team disharmony with Alex
    Wylie still at coach. Still #1 in the world
    
    England are very dangerous and were beaten by Australia out of there
    season. Therefore they had limited preparation. There centres are the
    best in the world (good quuick hands, great pace and agility) and good
    finishers. There forwards can hold there own against most sides. As 5
    nations champions they deserve respect. #2 in the world.
    
    Australia - on a roll at the moment and on a mission. Lack of
    penetration and defense a worry in the centres. How do we play when
    under pressure is still to be seen. David Campese scares me every time
    he touches the ball. Rank them #4.
    
    France - unknown quantity. Probably too unpredictable to win the cup,
    but on there day they can beat anybody. A real danger side . #5.
    
    Forget - Wales,Scotland, Ireland, Argentina,Fiji,USA etc. One may cause
    an upset but dont count on it.
    
    So who is #3 in the world. The Springboks. I would love to see them
    play. I have heard that they are still very competitve and want to show
    there supremacy. If they play in Australia or New Zealand I will be
    there. Good hard rugby guaranteed.
    
    Now if I can only get some tickets to the return test in NZ.
    
    
    Madge 
8.780CobblersEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredWed Aug 14 1991 05:4023
8.781BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Aug 14 1991 11:2023
	Just curious, are the Springboks South Africa?  And is South Africa
admitted to World Cup?  I thought some nations wouldn't play them.  How much
has that changed with the recent law changes in South Africa?
	I was watching instructive video's taped from a Welsh TV show last
night.  They has some All Blacks front row players, and a long segment on
a French flanker.  I don't remember his name, but he had long blond hair
and was the captain at the time of the taping.  The tapes were really good,
I'm going to watch them again.  They make me want to run really fast on the
pitch.  There idea of what a flanker should do was very much in line with
what I want to do, and the clips from games are inspirational.
	Mac, who are those women who are the contacts for the Worcester team?
Specifically, did I coach them at WPI last Spring?  I'm going to call them
and I want to know if they know me.  Also, if you mail me something about
your coaching clinic, I'll mail it to MIT's women's team and ask them to
forward it to the men.
	I can't wait to hear how practice was last night.  I'll definitely
start next week, I might go Thursday but I'd give that a 30% chance.
	I talked to someone who used to be on our team.  She was a flanker
and she was great, Eagles, etc.  She is also a terrific coach.  She told
me she heard I played great at Saranac and that the "people" were really 
pleased.  I was so happy to hear that, especially coming from her.

Rachael
8.782CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineWed Aug 14 1991 11:2249
Awright!

The season started last night with a bang.

We started off with a 2.5 mile run, which was hot.  As usual I'm near the
back of the pack (all the gazelle like backs were pushing the pace) but
not a problem.

Stretched and then ran lines.  It was cool, because they wanted all the
props in the same line (finally!).  Every other line was knocking on,
but we tortoises just kept pace, hung on to the ball (not without needing
some good hands though as we're all a bit rusty).

We had our first drop when they put a back in our line (damn backs -- always
wanna be flying off someplace fast!), but it was fun.


Then surprise, surprise, surprise, they pulled out the scrum sled on us.
I guess because of the match on Tuesday that they figured we needed it.

I figure 7 props this season, so I've got some competition.  We are short
on hookers though, as Johnny D needs an operation in September.  Only had
one real hooker last night.

Scrum sled was fun.  All the working out paid off.  We had to move the sled
about 150 yards to tie it to a new set of bleachers, so that was our scrumming
practice.

I found out last night just how important the right second row can be.
The first time through I had a new second row behind me, and he was just
grabbing my leg and what little push there was was up high, and it was 
riding my ass up.  I had to fight the natural tendency for your ass to
get high AND him at the same time.

Second cycle on the sled I had an A side second row behind me and a good
flanker, and it was like all of a sudden everything was in rhythm!


Finished with a 12 minute fartlek that felt like four hours.


So, the weight work and distance work helped, but need speed work.  Faustie,
our captain, did mention to me afterwards that I looked a lot fitter than
last spring....


Get to do it all over again on Thursday!

'Saw
8.783CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineWed Aug 14 1991 11:2723
>	Just curious, are the Springboks South Africa?  And is South Africa
>admitted to World Cup?  I thought some nations wouldn't play them.  How much
>has that changed with the recent law changes in South Africa?

Yes, they are the South African national team.  They are not in this World
Cup, as the qualifying and pairings were done prior to bans being lifted
on South Africa.


>	I was watching instructive video's taped from a Welsh TV show last
>night.  They has some All Blacks front row players, and a long segment on
>a French flanker.  I don't remember his name, but he had long blond hair
>and was the captain at the time of the taping.  The tapes were really good,
>I'm going to watch them again.  They make me want to run really fast on the
>pitch.  There idea of what a flanker should do was very much in line with
>what I want to do, and the clips from games are inspirational.

You don't want to run fast on the pitch.  People get hurt that way 8^)

Go to practice, you'll feel better about yourself 8^) 8^) 8^)......


'Saw
8.784CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 14 1991 12:2121
8.785OZARDZ::WASKOMWed Aug 14 1991 12:339
    Oh boy, practice reports.  Means the season must be getting close. 
    Goodie, goodie, goodie (picture little kid getting all excited).
    
    'Saw - glad to hear that the work outs helped.  KEEP IT UP!!!
    
    Anyone know if there is any planned coverage of the World Cup here in
    the States?  Or will we be relying on Notes for our coverage?
    
    A&W
8.786CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineWed Aug 14 1991 12:3314
>    
>    Madge, I don't think anyone can or will forget Scotland.  The matches
>    they lost in this year's 5 Nations were all away matches.  They were
>    the 1990 Grand Slam winners.
>

One of the Scottish players said on rugby world that almost all of their
WC matches were at Murrayfield.  That's one helluva a home field advantage.

The South African pitches are widely acknowledged to be the best in the
world....

    
Good luck there Mac.....
8.787BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Aug 14 1991 14:0520
This stuff about World Cup bugs me just enough to comment, but I know I'm
fighting the English language.  I am guilty of this myself, but I still 
wish it wasn't so.

The upcoming event is the Men's World Cup.  There was, just recently, in
Cardiff, the Women's World Cup.  To just speak of the Men's World Cup as
THE World Cup implies that either the Women's World Cup doesn't exist, or
it's not a real World Cup.

Luckily, I know we are all just referring to the Men's World Cup as World
Cup, since it is the only one about to happen and that's easier.

This is the same as referring to a college team as The Terriers, and the
Women's Terrier, implying real and other.

I certainly don't blame anyone (myself included) who speaks this way, as
it is the common usage of the day, but let's keep this point in mind as 
we shape the future. and teach the next generation.

Rachael 
8.789CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineWed Aug 14 1991 15:2316
re WC:

I've always assumed that the term "The World Cup" came from soccer.  
Soccer had a World Cup, rugby wanted one, so that's what they called it.

When it started, they didn't have a Women's World Cup, so there was no need
to call it a Men's World Cup.


Course, here's another thing for ya:

	Rugby's rugby.  They don't call it Men's and they don't call
	it Women's cause we all bleed the same way....


8^)
8.790BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Aug 14 1991 19:4130
Sig, 
	I hope that suit from JC Penny has a flattering cut, the movie
Sig is pretty trim for a guy.  I'm just waiting for the photo...

Back to rugby...

	I am forever grateful that the women play the same laws as the
men.  Lacrosse is really sc*wed up that way, as  are some other sports.
We do run into refs occaisionally that will basically penalize us for 
playing too hard, or tell the scrum "gently ladies".  I am not exagerating,
these are things I've witnessed...  But most refs just let us play.
At least you don't get called for cussing, like you can in women's 
collegiate soccer.  (Unless you cuss at the ref or in such a way as to
disturb the game, but that's different from just going sh*t when you  miss
a pass).

>When it started, they didn't have a Women's World Cup, so there was no need
>to call it a Men's World Cup.

That's very true.  That's why I don't see harm in the way the language has
evolved.  I just want it to continue to evolve to reflect the present and
the future.  

By the way, what way do you bleed?  I tend to bleed most out the nose,
about once a year, but it's never been broken (knock knock knock).
Other then that the worst was a deep cut on my  hand (ask to see my scar
someday) from a college girl (and these were girls) who thought short nails
meant less then 1 inch.

Rachael
8.791EDUOZ::THURGARWed Aug 14 1991 23:5928
    Re: 8.780
    
    I had a beer with Nick Farr Jones last night (sorry about the name
    dropping) - The Australian rugby captain (we are old school friends -
    he was my halfback at school). He thought that England were not playing
    at there best out here and would be a lot harder on there own home
    grounds.
    
    OK I may have underestimated Scotland and the home ground advantage
    that they (and England) will have. But at times they have struggled.
    Not enough forward firepower to match the big three.
    
    Re 8.781 I remember the French breakaway and captain. He played an
    inspirational test against Aust some years ago, playing the whole game
    with dislocated shoulder (he looked like the hunch back). Take a look
    at Michael Jones and Willie Ofenhague as top line breakaways. These
    guys should be committed.
    
    Can we just call the Men's World Cup the Upcoming World Cup of just the
    World Cup as the Women's World Cup has passed.
    
    I hope you guys in the states get coverage of the WC. We are getting
    full coverage. There goes my sleep. Pity you dont work on the same
    video system. Otherwise I will get you match descriptions regularly.
    
    After 5 nose breaks - I always bleed from the nose.
    
    Madge
8.792CAM::WAYCall her up on the spank lineThu Aug 15 1991 11:4022
Re Women's scrumming:

	Don't feel bad Rachael, last fall when I was playing second
	row we had a ref that constantly was telling us that.  Being
	a part of the "engine room", my partner and I felt we had
	to make sure we were doing our jobs, and we were giving a tad
	of a push as the fronts came together...

	Oh, the ref wasn't calling us ladies though 8^)


The only place I've done any bleeding that showed was on my ear.  I had
a wicked case of scrum ear late last fall, and there wasn't a game that
would go by where it wouldn't start to bleed after the first scrum,
and down my neck until no-side was whistled.

Other than that though, I've been pretty fortunate.  Did have one wicked
neat looking purple-green bruise inside my knee though....



'Saw
8.793JPREDUOZ::THURGARThu Aug 15 1991 21:5110
    The French breakaway previously mentioned was Jean Pierre Reeves. An
    inspirational player.
    
    Speaking of flankers/breakaways it is rumoured that Aust flanker Willie
    Ofenhague will play professional Rugby league for St.George next season
    after the World Cup. Another great loss to Aust rugby. Over the years
    from memory we have lost - Ray Price, Michael O'Connor, Brett Papworth,
    Scott Gourlay. Money wins out in the end.
    
    Madge
8.794CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttFri Aug 16 1991 12:4738
>    after the World Cup. Another great loss to Aust rugby. Over the years
>    from memory we have lost - Ray Price, Michael O'Connor, Brett Papworth,
>    Scott Gourlay. Money wins out in the end.
    

Whores, all of 'em.....


Had a GREAT practice last night.  Since we're gonna be playing the Brits
on Tuesday, practice was a game practice.

Running (which was cut short after we got caught in a thunderstorm), ball
handling (again a line of props made it so easy), break down into fowards
and backs to work on lineouts and scrums, then some almost-live opposed
work.

I worked at loosehead in the lineouts which was the first time for that.
The way we do lineouts, I strip off the second jumper and the third
jumper, and on our tap play I follow the first jumper (who takes the tap)
to support him to the inside.

But it was in the opposed work that it all started to come together.
For the first time since I started playing, things are starting to click.
I carried the ball a couple of times last night -- Clydesdale type
carries, straight up the field.  All the weight work is paying off because
once I got hit I just kept driving the legs and it took some work to get
me down. I even managed to present fairly well for the ensueing ruck.

Rucking was just coming too.  I mean, it was just happening...

Scrumming was hard.  I was loosehead opposite big Joe Norton.  Joe is
270 if he's an ounce, and is a pretty massive guy.  Neck is tight this morning.

But all in all it was a good, fun practice....  Can't wait for the season
to start....


'Saw
8.795CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttFri Aug 16 1991 13:1924
I had a chance to talk to Glen Judge last night before practice.

We talked a bit about his getting panned in the article in Rugby, and
he says that many people have told him it was more a case of the author
being a bit prejudiced than anything else.

Glen also told me that the Canadian side was really pumped that day after
having beaten Scotland.  He said the Eagles packed looked like they
were on roller skates and going backwards all day.  

Glen made every kick he attempted.


The Bad news is that Glen was not picked for the World Cup side.  He's
disappointed naturally, but he told me that he's been invited back to
Eagles Camp next year, and that following the World Cup he expects to 
get more caps, since the will probably be De Jongs last year.

The Good news is that means Glen is playing with us this fall (and
not hobnobbing around Great Britain with international ruggers) so we
again will have the uses of his foot....


'Saw
8.796More on new Worcester Rugby ClubBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Aug 19 1991 11:1013
	I called one of the women Mac listed for the Worcester Rugby club.
They are serious about starting a club, and are in need of players.  Most
of their players would be beginners, or have limited experience, so it's
a good place to start playing.  And remember, some folks start as late as
32 years old!
	So, all you Sports noters out there, dont' forget tonight at dinner
as your TV blinks on and off to Bob, to ask your sisters, mothers, daughters,
girlfriends and/or wives (Hawk lives here, after all) if they want to play.  

	Saw, it sounds like Glen did pretty well after all, and it'll be
good for you guys to have him home for a while, especially for the Fall.

Rachael
8.797CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttMon Aug 19 1991 11:2027
>And remember, some folks start as late as
>32 years old!

I did (well 31, but who's counting).....

And it isn't as tough as some people think.  If you're halfway fit, and
willing to work at it, you'll be able to play well.  Learn the basics,
learn your position and after a while things start to click.

And hey, lemme tell you what it does for your confidence level.  When you
can get out there and go for eighty minutes, absorb whatever the other team
can throw at you, dole out some punishment of your own, and walk off the
field tired as sin but happy that you won, you feel like you can take on 
the world.....

>	Saw, it sounds like Glen did pretty well after all, and it'll be
>good for you guys to have him home for a while, especially for the Fall.

Yeah.  We have another kicker who's good and there's always Howie (Mac will
tell you about Howie and the LONG drop kick in the Ct Cup).  But with Glen,
it adds another dimension to our game.  Long penalty kicks that go through
are plus factors, but even if they're wide good things can happen with good
pursuit.  And when you're bottled up in your own end, knowing he's back
there is a comfort, because they lineout could very well be back deep down
in *their* end...

'Saw
8.798CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttTue Aug 20 1991 18:0112
Well, we're supposed to be playing that English club tonight (sheeyit
I never did find out their name).

It's raining here (God loves the infantry and ruggers) but that shouldn't
be a problem.

As I'm spectating tonight (only could get a one side match) the only
"with you with you" I'll be calling is for the beer pitch later...

Game report tomorrow....

'Saw
8.799Game Report: Hartford RFC vs Lowestoft&Yarmouth RUFCCAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttWed Aug 21 1991 11:3586
Last evening, the Hartford Wanderers RFC defeated Lowestoft & Yarmouth RUFC
in a match at Colt Park in Hartford.  The final score was 20-0, or as
the boys from Lowestoft said, "Twenty to nil"

The game was a lot closer than the score would indicate.  Lowestoft had
been scheduled to arrive at 2pm on Monday afternoon, but due to Hurricane
Bob they were re-routed and didn't get into Hartford until 2am on Tuesday.
Nevertheless they cam prepared to play.

Wearing Blue and White small hooped jersies and blue shorts, Lowestoft
prepared to kickoff their tour and the game.  This rugby club is 100 years
old, which is a sobering thought for an American rugger.

The first half was very evenly matched.  Hartford outplayed Lowestoft
in the scrums, dominated in the lineout, but we evenly matched with the
Brits in the loose.  Lowestoft rucked well, and benefited from some early
penalties to gain field position.  Hartford played excellent defense
and kept driving them back.

Midway through the first half, Hartford finally put it together.  Deep
in Lowestoft territory, a scrum won by Hartford, lead to the first try.
Hartford Scrumhalf Billy Starkey started the ball down the back line.
The backs had a crash on, and Tommy Vinick headed the ball back inside.
Starkey got the ball back, and was hit about two meters out.  Ed Wasniak,
a Hartford lock, picked up the ball instead of rucking over, and bulled
in for the try, a bit right of the posts.  Glen Judge, kicking into the
wind, just missed the conversion.  The score stood at 4-0 Hartford.


Late in the first half, Hartford was again knocking on Lowestoft's door.
From a lineout 40 meters out, the play went wide right out the back line.
Support from the loose forwards brought the play back into the center,
where Hartford rucked well.  Finally, in a bit of classic rugby back row
play, the ball spun out left, the fullback filled in the line creating the
overload, and wing Howie Rosenberg slid by the last Lowestoft rugger into
the corner.  Glen again missed the conversion as the ball failed to hook
inside the post, and Hartford was ahead 8-0 at the half.


In the second half, Lowestoft again came out strong.  This was a very
well played, very clean game between two evenly matched teams.  Lowestoft
made their effort to get back in it early in the second half, driving
into Wanderers territory, but Hartford again held strong.  Lowestoft was
using kicks to gain position, but Hartford's fullback Al Dekin displayed
sure hands, and some deft trickery in running when Lowestoft assumed he'd
loft one back at them.

With the lead, Hartford got a little fancy at times, which resulted in 
a bit more possession for Lowestoft than Hartford would have liked.  Since
Hartford's game is simple, well executed rugby, the fancy stuff didn't
really fit in.

Midway into the second half, the play started from a spoiled lineout at
about the 40 meter line.  Hartford had a back row play on (I'm not sure
which it was, but there were several scissors) when outside center
Frank Kraemer made a pass to Howie Rosenberg.  Howie stutter-stepped, and then
turned on the jets.  (Howie has very deceptive speed).  Fifteen meters out
he was past the last Lowestoft defender, so he was able to touch down the ball
dead center between the posts.  The score stood at 14-0.

Also midway into the second half you could see Lowestoft visibly tire.
Their travel was telling on them, and the 12 hour delay in arriving had
really affected them.

A series of penalties, some warranted, some questionable calls, moved
Lowestoft deep into Hartford territory.  Hartford again held, and pushed
downfield.

The final try came on a very pretty play.  From the Hartford 22 meter
line, a series of carries by Hartford's loose forwards and some crushing
rucks, led to Inside Center Tom Vinick carrying the ball dead center
at midfield.  He spun it out to Frank Kraemer.  As Frankie cut toward the
sidelines, wing Sean Brennan cut inside of him, taking a handoff that
only the folks on the sideline saw.  (I was two feet away and it was
hard to see).  Lowestoft took Frank out of the play, but Sean had the ball.

With one support pass to Al Dekin, who quickly passed it back, Sean was
away to the races for Hartford's last try.  Glen booted the conversion
square through and when no-side was blown the final score was 20-0.


Lowestoft was a game club, playing as dead tired as they were.  The atmosphere
at the drink up was extremely friendly, full of British humor.  All in all
it was a great game for the Wanderers, and a great (albeit losing) start
to Lowestoft's US tour....

8.800OZARDZ::WASKOMWed Aug 21 1991 15:269
    Great game report.  I can really picture what happened.  (Actually,
    sorry I had to miss it, I had hoped to get down there, but a week night
    from here is a long shot at best, and Bob wiped out all chances of
    making it.)
    
    Hopefully, the rest of their trip will go better.  Any idea where else
    they're headed?  Did they have many backers with them?
    
    A&W
8.801CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttWed Aug 21 1991 16:324
I forget where they're going.  They've got either two or three more...

Not many backers, but they did have an honest to goodness Brit trainer,
complete with bucket of ice watcher and sponge...
8.802The magic sponge cures what ails ye'BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Aug 22 1991 11:2710
	Oh my god the magic sponge!  There you are, playing in some kind of
god awful clammy weather as it is wont to be in the British Isles, you go down
for a minutes and before you know it they're out there soaking your jersey
with ice cold water dripped from the magic sponge.
	Cyndy and I were watching a recording of the Barbarians versus the
Australians last night (some old tour,  right around Xmas), and we shivered
in horror every time they brought out the magic sponge.  It was like reliving
a nightmare.

Rachael
8.803CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttThu Aug 22 1991 11:5917
I've never partaken of the magic sponge, but it's really funny.

There were a lot of guys down on Tuesday (both theirs and ours) and their
trainer was down to half a bucket of ice water.  He looked up at a couple
of the reserve and said "Well boys, I'm almost out o' magic...."

I can just hear some old Scottish rugger now:

	Well, there I wooz, and I wooz layin on th' groond, and
	me kidney was a wee bi' exploded inside me.  Ooot comes
	th' trainer an' he pooots the magic spoonge on me bac'
	an' next thang yoo know, I've no' a pain a'tall....


too funny.....

'Saw
8.804It's magic alrightCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 22 1991 13:092
    You'd get up pretty quick too if someone doused you wth an ice cold
    sponge.
8.806CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttThu Aug 22 1991 16:5926
Hawk, you woulda loved these British dudes.

The one guy who came out the week before and practiced with us (he was doing
advanced prep for the tour) was cool.  He came out of the game about
midway in the second half, after wrenching his shoulder (guess there was
not enough magic in the sponge).

Anway, I asked if it was really painful, and he said it hurt some.
I told him that a couple of beers at the drinkup would fix that.
He says "I come all the way from England, you beat us up 20 to nil, and
now you're only offering me *two* beers!?"

Well, thinking quickly I replied "No, that's not what I meant.  See
when we start at the drinkups here, we have to have a beer in each hand!"

(phew).


btw, that night after practice, I saw two very unusual drinks.  Prior to
having his first beer, he had the bartender draw him half a pint of beer
and fill the rest with 7-Up.  Then he chugged it down!
Another fellow with him did the same with beer and lemonade...  I'm thinking
of trying the 7-Up deal......


'Saw
8.807CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 22 1991 17:3610
8.808CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttThu Aug 22 1991 18:0118
>    That is called a Shandy.  I think the chap who ordered a beer and
>    lemonade was in for a bit of a surprise.  Lemonade in the UK is not the
>    same as lemonade in the US.  The lemonade they serve in the UK is
>    basically 7-Up.


Ah, that explains it then.

Well, I think I'm gonna try one after practice tonight.  What the heck,
that magic sponge thing seems to work, maybe their 'Shandy' will as
well 8^)


HWRC should be up for an international tour soon.  The last one was in
89, so I'd expect one at least by 92.  Maybe it'll be England....


'Saw
8.809CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 22 1991 18:036
8.810CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttThu Aug 22 1991 18:4419
>    WRFC is in the process of deciding between tours to Argentina,
>    California/Colorado, British Columbia, and the Bahamas.  We're looking
>    to go on tour sometime next year.


Bahamas isn't a bad tour mon.  On New Providence Island, where we were,
there's only three club, though, mon.  There's Beck's Buccaneers,
Waterloo Hurricanes, and some other one.

If you get a good ref, both are good competition, although the Hurricanes
are tough.  If you get a homer ref, forget about it, and just wait for the
post game party....8^)

Biggest problem there, is that you wanna lay out and sun-up.  And we've
talked about sunburns and scrumming before....

Keep me posted dude...

'Saw
8.811CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 22 1991 18:524
    The Bahamas trip will be to Freeport.  There is a big tournament held
    there every year around Easter time.  I forget who hosts it.  New Haven
    is going this spring.  It would be kind of ironic to go all that way
    and play a team from up here.
8.812OK, now I'm really psyched for the seasonBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Aug 23 1991 11:2321
	Ditto on the Shandy.  I think they're really good, but then, I only
like beer sometimes.  And it has to be cold.
	I told Cyndy last night about the magic sponge discussion.  I never
got the treatment, but she did.  I think it might have been a night game
where you could see your breath.  She said just what Mac said, it makes you
get up pretty d*mn quick.
	I actually broke down and went to practice last night.  We don't
officially start until September 2, so there were about 10-12 people there
playing touch.  The first half was pretty mediocre, we had too many people
for the field space.  But later we moved to a bigger field, and it was a lot
more interesting.  I felt really good last night,  I set up a lot of nice
situations and was very mobile.  I might even be starting to, gasp, enjoy
playing touch.
	I was getting very frustrated though at one of the players (she's
MIT, just Beantown for the summer) because she wouldn't draw her opponent
before passing to me.  Basically a hail mary but not as obvious.
	I saw the MIT guys last night.  They said they had gone to the 
Worcester tourney and played in the finals or the semifinals.  Was that
your tourney, Mac?

Rachael
8.813CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttFri Aug 23 1991 11:5241
>	I was getting very frustrated though at one of the players (she's
>MIT, just Beantown for the summer) because she wouldn't draw her opponent
>before passing to me.  Basically a hail mary but not as obvious.

Actually, I prefer them to do it in pastels, charcoal or oils as opposed
to line drawings.  And how do you get your opponent to holds still long enough?

[8^) 8^) 8^)]



I just went wild in practice last night.  I just decided that I wanted
to see how much I could do all out, and to see if I could survive it.
We did more semi-opposed stuff, and I got smart enough to stay out
of the rucks I couldn't make it to.  That meant on defense I was 
able to chase down the line.

Now the only thing I have to work on is to be able to try to mess them
up when they cut back across the grain.  (When you get 235 pounds going
fast in one direction, it's a bitch to try and switch quick).

Scrumming was useless as we didn't have two full packs.  

And, in something only another prop could appreciate, last night was
the first time ever I got "grabbed".  It was a new lock (normally
a flanker).  The first scrum he was trying to wrap my inside leg, so
I took his hand, put it on my belt and explained to him what to do.

Second scrum, he reached up quickly (because the front was was already
on the way in) and grabbled a handful of 'nads.  That was the LONGEST
scrum of my life....



After practice I instituted a new Chainsaw rugby policy.  During the week
I'm on the wagon.  I feel tremendous this morning because of that.  
Beer after the games, but not after practice....


'Saw

8.814CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 23 1991 12:1625
    Yeah, Rachael, that was our tourney.  I don't think MIT called
    themselves MIT, but I can't remember what name they entered under.  I
    think they were in the semis of the plate (2nd tier).
    
    WRFC travels to New Haven tomorrow.  This is the earliest we've ever
    played a game in the fall season that I can remember.  We usually don't
    start until after Labor Day.  As a result, we only have about 25
    players going.  From what I understand we've worked it out with New
    Haven to play 3 halves so that both teams can get a look at all of
    their players before the league season starts on 9/7.  Selections for
    the game haven't been announced yet.  Looking at who isn't available
    for the weekend I'll probably get at least a half in at lock. 
    Hopefully I'll get at least a half in at prop as well, but I'm not
    holding my breath.
    
    Worcester's chances of winning the Maxwell Division may have suffered a
    set back.  We have been informed that Old Gold will be an away game
    instead of a home game.  This will give us 2 home games and 5 away
    games in the league schedule.  We have to play all of the new entries
    to the Maxwell Division away (Boston Irish, Old Gold, and Newport). 
    Something's not right here.
    
    One of the WPI guys is back to Worcester a week or so before school
    starts and came to training last night.  Sounds like they want me back
    as a coach so I'll be busy again this fall.
8.815CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttFri Aug 23 1991 12:3726
>    
>    Worcester's chances of winning the Maxwell Division may have suffered a
>    set back.  We have been informed that Old Gold will be an away game
>    instead of a home game.  This will give us 2 home games and 5 away
>    games in the league schedule.  We have to play all of the new entries
>    to the Maxwell Division away (Boston Irish, Old Gold, and Newport). 
>    Something's not right here.
    
Old Gold has fouled (I'd prefer another f-word here when discussiong Old Mold)
everything up.

They moved down, Amoskeag moved up.  We should have, by rights, had a 
home game for that slot.  Unfortunately we have to make the 3 hour trip
to play them instead of the 20 minute (for me) drive to Colt Park.

So, instead of 4 home, 3 away, we've got 3 home, 4 away.

But you guys got hosed even worse....

Sound like something NERFU should look into, unless they're the dorks
who did it in the first place....


Good luck in New Haven!

'Saw
8.8161991 US World Cup SquadCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 23 1991 12:4647
    The U.S. has named their 1991 World Cup squad.  It is made up of 13
    players from the Pacific, 7 from the East, 4 from the West, and 2 from
    the Midwest.  There are 8 players who played in the 1987 World Cup. 
    Kevin Higgins (wing/center) and Kevin Swords (lock) are the most capped
    players on the squad with 26 each.  There are only 2 uncapped players
    on the team, fullback Paul Sheehy and flanker Kay Wilkerson.  The
    Eagles' pool games are Oct. 5 vs. Italy in Otley, Oct. 8 vs. New
    Zealand in Gloucester, and Oct. 11 vs. England in Twickenham.
    
    Name		Position	Club			Territory
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Joe Burke		Center		Albany Knicks		East
    Barry Daily		Scrumhalf	San Jose Seahawks	Pacific
    Mike DeJong		Flyhalf		Denver Barbarians	West
    Rob Farley		Flanker		Philly-Whitemarsh	East
    Tony Flay		Hooker		Jersey Shore		East
    Gary Hein*		Wing		Old Blues		Pacific
    Kevin Higgins*	Wing/Ctr.	Old Blues		Pacific
    Pat Johnson*	Hooker		Louisville		Midwest
    Bill Leversee	Lock		OMBAC			Pacific
    Shawn Lipman	Flanker		Santa Monica		Pacific
    Chris Lippert	Prop		OMBAC			Pacific
    Lance Manga		Prop		South Jersey		East
    Nrom Mottram	Prop		Boulder			West
    Ray Nelson*		Fullback	Belmont Shore		Pacific
    Chris O'Brien	Center/FH	Old Blues		Pacific
    Fred Paoli*		Prop		Denver Barbarians	West
    Mark Pidcock	Scrumhalf	Pensacola		East
    Tony Ridnell*	Lock/#8		Old Puget Sound		Pacific
    Mark Sawicki	Flanker		Chicago Lions		Midwest
    Paul Sheehy		Fullback	Washington		East
    Kevin Swords*	Lock		Beacon Hill		East
    Chuck Tunnacliffe	Lock		Belmont Shore		Pacific
    Brian Vizard(c)	#8		OMBAC			Pacific
    Eric Whitaker	Wing		Old Blues		Pacific
    Jay Wilkerson	Flanker		Belmont Shore		Pacific
    Mark Williams	Center		Aspen			West
    
    *on 1987 World Cup Squad
    
    Coach:  Jim Perkins
    Assistants:  Ed Burlingham, Bing Dawson
    Manager:  Ed Schram
    Fitness Coach:  Ron Artingstall
    Trainer:  Ed Ayub
    Physicians:  Dr. Ken Carnine, Dr. Doug Straehley
    
8.817CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 23 1991 12:5318
8.818CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttFri Aug 23 1991 13:1729
>    
>    NERFU's answer is basically "That's the way it is.  Work it out among
>    yourselves."  Since we last played Old Gold in Worcester (although it
>    was a non-league game), we have to go to Boston.  
    
>    NERFU really dropped the ball in scheduling.  They have allowed 2 new
>    teams into the league, and 1 team back into the league (a team that was
>    on the verge of extinction) without any proof that they can handle the
>    league obligations (fielding 2 sides, supplying a ref, etc).  This put
>    9 teams into the division and they decided that each team would play 7
>    league games.  We don't get to play MIT.  And all of this was done and
>    announced less than a month ago!  One consolation we have is that at
>    least we don't have to travel to Burlington, VT.  They are coming here.  


Read the article on running international test matches.  The one that's
like a survey.  John D'Amico panned NERFU and the territory but good.
The provided little or no support in putting on the Scotland game...

    
>    In other US news, Steinlager will not renew their contract to sponsor
>    US rugby.

Hah!  Tasted like piss anyway...  No, I'm just kidding.  Any word on 
other potential sponsors?


'saw

8.819CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 23 1991 13:2617
8.820CAM::WAYMighty Mouse kicks buttFri Aug 23 1991 14:0233
>    I scanned it.  Looks like Hartford cleaned up on this deal.  Seeing
>    something like this, I can't understand how money was lost on the US
>    vs. Ireland game in NY last year.  Did any of the profits go to NERFU,
>    USARE, and/or USARFU?  I realize NERFU didn't help much, but they did
>    arrange to give Hartford a captive audience for the game.

Yeah, NERFU did but we had to threaten them to get them to give in.
We told them no problem, we'd go to the tournament in Newport, but 
we'd just tell USARFU that we couldn't host the Eagles 8^)

Do you know Providence filed a formal protest stating that we purposely
had the tournament in Hartford, knowing that the fields would be smaller,
and that would enable us to take advantage of Glen Judge's foot.
Course, they and New Haven were the two teams we beat on last minute
kicks... each game was 9-6.

I'm not sure if any money went back to the Unions.  I doubt it, since
we got like no help from them at all hardly.  It took a tremendous amount
of planning, and everyone pulling together.  It was a weekend I'll never
forget....

    
>    Nothing that I've heard.  There is an article that says the USARFU has
>    signed up with a firm to produce promotional items for the Eagles and
>    for clubs in the top 40 US markets.  There will be an official line of
>    rugby sportswear, athletic apparel and accessories, and stadium
>    souveniers.

Cool.  Maybe now we can buy Hawk that Special Eagle-Brand Black Ear Tape.


8^)

8.821Test matchEDUOZ::THURGARSun Aug 25 1991 23:5120
    All Blacks 6 Australia 3
    
    In a very tough dour encounter at Eden Park, the All Blacks won a hard
    game. The ground was very slippery and it was blowing a gale. Therefore
    the gane was played in the forwards. The All Blacks dominated the first
    half, whilst the Australians dominated the second. The All Blacks were
    a lot more committed than two weeks before. The refereeing was
    pathetic, over 30 penalties in the game, he never played the advantage,
    pulled everything up really quickly (just as the ball was about to come
    out). Both sides complained about his interpretations, especially in
    line outs (the wind played havoc with the throw ins). Goal kicking
    decided the day Grant Fox kicked 2 from 6 and Michael Lynagh 1 from 7
    (and these guys are the best kickers in the world - very difficult
    conditions). It was a spiteful game with some head rucking and
    late/high tackles as well. Nobody could really claim a moral victory
    which would give you a pyschological edge for the WC.
    
    If you like a shandy, try stout with 7-Up (they drink it in Ireland)
    
    Madge
8.822WRFC vs New Haven Old Black RFCCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Aug 26 1991 12:4837
    The WRFC trip to New Haven turned out better than I expected, although
    it looked pretty bleak from the outset.  Worcester only managed to
    bring about 20 players.  We agreed to play 2 games of 30 minute halves
    each.  New Haven agreed to supply some players for the second game.  I
    played the first game at loosehead prop and the first half of the
    second game at tighthead prop.
    
    It was a bright, hot, sunny day in Southern Connecticut.  The pitch was
    in perfect condition, soft with lots of green grass.  New Haven got on
    the board early with 3 quick tries as a result of good use of their
    kicking game and judicious use of the overload.  The ref was very quick
    to blow up any ruck or maul - a little too quick in most instances, but
    it did go both ways for the most part.  Worcester then appeared to wake
    up and start playing their game.  We enjoyed a territorial advantage
    for the remainder of the half, but couldn't quite punch it in before
    the halftime whistle blew.
    
    In the second half, Worcester again put on the pressure and this time
    were rewarded with a try.  The rest of the game see-sawed back and
    forth with New Haven capitalizing on a break down in the Worcester
    defense to notch another try.  The final score was something like 24-6,
    but it definitely was a closer game than the score indicated.  
    
    We played much better than we did at home against New Haven last
    spring.  New Haven was missing their usual stand off who is an
    excellent kicker.  We had one of our best wingforwards in at center as
    several of our players had other commitments this past weekend.  We
    again realized our relative lack of fitness, but this game certainly
    gives us something to build upon over the next 2 weeks before our
    league season opens in Newport, RI.
    
    The second game featured about 5 fresh Worcester players, 3 or 4 New
    Haven C side players, and the remainder Worcester players working on
    their second game.  This game turned into a rout with Worcester
    dominating just about every phase of the game.  The only disappointment
    of the game was when Worcester was not able to score a push over try
    and had to settle for one off the ensuing second phase.
8.823CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Mon Aug 26 1991 13:319
Good job dudes!

Where *was* their flyhalf anyway?  He's not as good a kicker as Glen, but
I still wouldn't wanna give up any penalties inside of 40 meters.

Which did you like better, tight or loose?


'Saw
8.824CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Aug 26 1991 14:3626
8.825CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Mon Aug 26 1991 15:0114
Toughest thing I'm finding about THP is that I've been told two things:

	a) mess up the hooker
	b) use my upper body mass to "lean" on the LHP.

If I'm doing the leaning thang, then I find it harder to try to lift
the hooker.  If I try to lift the hooker, I find I'm more susceptible to
being lifted myself.

I *am* getting better at the stance this year, and keeping my butt down.
Also, back feels a helluva lot stronger, and while all I did for the neck
was shoulder shrugs, it feels better too...

'Saw
8.826BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Aug 26 1991 15:1815
	I haven't played prop in years, so Mac should check this, but

a) Why do you want to drag your opponent down?  Sounds dangerous to me.

b) If you really do want to while lifting the hooker, do it with your 
outside arm pulling him sideways and down, binding somewhere close to
his shorts.

If someone just leaned on me, I'd do my best to drop them on the ground a 
few times.  If they tried to pull me down, either I'd try to rip their arm
off or I'd have my flanker do it.  Preferable in such a way as to either 
strongly dissuade them from doing it, or make the ref notice they're doing it 
without getting myself in trouble.

Rachael
8.827CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Mon Aug 26 1991 16:2815
It's not really drag them down, but more to tire them out.
The way it was described to me was using my weight to my advantage.

The ultimate goal is to get them to say late in the game "Not another scrum
under this guy....".

It's like that going up against Joe Norton.  Joe is a big boy, and even
when he doesn't push, it's awfully tiring to try and lift him....


Tomorrow night I'm sure we'll be doing a lot of scrumming.  That's usually
what the forwards do on Tuesday nights....


'saw
8.828CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 27 1991 15:5110
    I don't try to lift a hooker.  The only time I've been able to do it
    was kind of a fluke where our whole front row lifted their whole front
    row.  To mess up the opposing hooker, literally get in his face.  Pinch
    down on him.  Drive hard into his shoulder as the scrums engage.  Use
    your head to obstruct his vision of the tunnel.  It's probably more
    effective to bring the scrum down (not collapsed, but very low) than to
    lift.  The hooker will have difficulty seeing the ball coming into the
    tunnel and getting his foot out to strike (and stop him from bringing a
    knee up into your cheekbone).  Then again, a good lift completely
    removes their ability to push and is a severe morale killer.
8.829Talented, ain't sheCELTIK::JACOBHoneysuckle KNOWS Ping Pong ballsTue Aug 27 1991 21:3916
    
    >>I don't try to lift a hooker.
    
    Lasted time I did that, I threw my freakin' back out.  And boy was SHE
    pissed.  Anyway, isn't tit the hooker's job to "lift" you???
    
    >>The hooker will have difficulty seeing the ball coming into the
    >>tunnel 
    
    Just where are her eyes located, dese days?????
    
    (8^)
    
    JaKe
    
    
8.830CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Wed Aug 28 1991 11:0340
Well, last night was the first practice with our coach.  The past two weeks
we've had our practices run by our captain.  Last night, HellWeek began.

I handled the warmup run pretty well.  I don't run 7 minute miles to warm
up like the guys in front.  For me, an 8:15 is quick.  But I'm doing the runs
anyway.

Stretching was cool except they started the thing I hate the most about
rugby:  Power Sets.  About halfway through our stretching they throw in
a power set of 25 pushups, 25 situps, 25 star jumps, and 25 squat thrusts
(we call 'em Burpees).  With two of those sets in a stretching session,
I'm done before practice even starts.

The working out has paid off becuase the pushups were easier.  That's about
all the good I can say about those.

After that we did some fancy ball handling.  This is getting better for
me too.  We had two lines running into each other, and you had to find
a gap and hold your pass up till you were by.  It was pretty easy.

Then, the inevitable rucking and mauling drills.  They were actually 
fun.  My fitness level is better than last season, although not up to
what I'd like.  I'm trying to look at the positives.

Breakdown into forwards, backs.  Forwards worked on mauling, mauling, 
mauling.  By the end of that I was dead tired.  If we'd have had to
do a fartlek, I'd have been dead.  But we ended up doing unopposed,
(or semi-confused as one of the guys calls it).

That was interesting because I ended up in with the A side pack.  This 
particular pack has a couple of territorial players, and the back line
has an Eagle.  Fun, I thought.  I'm outta my league.  I was really
worried about keeping up with the pack, but I did ok.  I just really
opened up the stride, and was never very far away from them.  Plus, it
made me more cognizant of the line to take in pursuit.  If you play the
angle right, it's less running really.

Great practice, if a bit sore today....

'Saw
8.831OZARDZ::WASKOMWed Aug 28 1991 14:569
    Quick double check, as I am currently planning my weekend.
    
    Worcester is not playing this weekend, as it is a holiday.
    
    Hartford is playing this weekend, on Saturday, at 1:00, at the Rock.
    
    Correct?
    
    A&W
8.832CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 28 1991 14:593
8.833CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Wed Aug 28 1991 15:1618
I'm not sure where we're playing.

I won't know till Thursday at the earliest.  Last season we had a problem
with Labor Day weekend.  It was touch and go up to the morning of the game
whether we would be even in Colt Park at all, or what.

We ended up playing on another field within the park, but only the guys
who were on the pitch committee knew that for sure.  The rest of us
didn't find out until 12pm on Saturday.

Usually there's a lot going on in the park on that weekend, with Midget
football kicking off (no pun intended) and a ton of softball and
soccer.

Neither of our Captains was there at practice last night, so they were no
help.

As soon as I hear anything, I'll post it.....
8.834CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 28 1991 17:54105
    Here's a copy of an article written by Mike Barnicle in the August 11,
    1991 edition of the Boston Globe.  Another sad part about the story is
    that the USA Rugby Football Union offers insurance for rugby related
    injuries.  It wouldn't have saved his neck, but it would have helped
    his financial problems.
    
    WITH HEART, THERE'S HOPE by Mike Barnicle
    
    Glenmore, a small village in County Kilkenny, Republic of Ireland, sits
    in a valley surrounded by steep, rocky hills and a vast sky capable of
    changing color as quickly and unpredictably as some change moods. 
    There is one church, a bar, two grocery stores, and nearly all who are
    young there clamor to leave and look about them as if the fields
    surrounding the town were walls of a jail. 

    "How many people in Glenmore?" Patrick Culleton was asked. 

    "A thousand," he replied. 

    "999 now," his friend Tom O'Brien told him. 

    "Ah, that's true," Culleton said. 

    In 1986, Patrick Culleton, like so many Irish before him, tired of
    Ireland and came to America.  He is 34 years old and had been a teacher
    at a Catholic school in Dublin. 

    Bored with teaching, he arrived in Boston eager for a new adventure. 
    Using his hands and his heart, he began a contracting business.  He had
    no partners, which meant nearly all of each day was spent working.  But
    that was no problem because, when you are from a place like Glenmore,
    work is merely something that happens upon waking up.  It is a way of
    life rather than a new and terrifying experience. 

    Culleton, his business growing like young flowers, was living in an
    apartment in South Boston.  He had a girlfriend, a ton of friends, but
    always, he clung to a piece of Ireland because the new Irish have
    established a strong network among themselves with dances, socials and
    sports leagues. 

    Patrick Culleton's nickname is "Punter."  That, because he knows what
    he's doing on a rugby field.  And two weeks ago, with his team -- The
    Boston Irish Wolfhounds -- going against the Providence Buccaneers in a
    match on Martha's Vineyard, Culleton was, once again, playing hard, the
    only way he knows. 

    "There was about three minutes till half time," he was saying the other
    day. "And I went for the ball and when I went down, someone landed on
    me and I felt my neck nap like a twig.  Oddly enough, there was no
    pain.  I could feel my whole body go limp.  I knew right away what had
    happened." 

    A helicopter flew Culleton off the island to Logan Airport.  There, he
    was transported to New England Hospital Center where doctors told him
    what he already knew:  That he is a quadriplegic. 

    He cannot move his hands, arms or legs.  His shoulders respond slightly
    to signals sent from the brain, but the rest of the man's body is
    frozen forever, immobile.  One second he was healthy and well, one
    second later he was paralyzed for life. 

    Today, he is in a bed on the fifth floor of the downtown hospital.  He
    is a big, good-looking guy with brown hair and blue eyes that still
    have a smile to them when there isn't much to smile about.  The injury
    snapped his neck yet apparently did nothing but add strength to his
    heart. 

    "I have great optimism," Patrick Culleton said.  "I know what the
    doctors have told me, but I have great faith in God.  Anything is
    possible.  So far I have not conceded to depression or self-pity.  I
    don't know when -- or if -- that will come." 

    "I drew a lot of my strength from what my brother endured.  He was
    horribly injured but he recovered, and I can too." 

    In the fall of 1989, Punter's twin brother Johnnie came to Boston from
    Glenmore to visit for two weeks.  On his second night in America, he
    was hit by a car while crossing East Broadway in South Boston; came off
    the curb looking the wrong way, to the right not the left, Irish way. 

    Johnnie Culleton sustained serious head wounds.  For two weeks, he was
    at Boston City Hospital.  Later, he was sent to Spaulding
    Rehabilitation. Always, one brother was there for the other, the
    healthy caring for the wounded. 

    "Because of the way Johnnie recovered," Culleton's friend Tom O'Brien
    was saying, "the family back in Ireland thinks it's only a matter of
    time before Patrick will recover too.  They don't really comprehend the
    extent of his injury." 

    Patrick Culleton's frame is limp.  A large oval iron brace wraps like a
    collar around his shattered neck and extends upward around his head,
    resembling a halo.  Attached to this, there is a small microphone
    activated at the touch of a tongue.  This is how Culleton calls for a
    nurse.  This is his new world:  A bed, occasionally being propped up in
    a chair, looking forward to a long period of rehabilitation. 
    Naturally, he has a ton of friends and absolutely no money. 

    "We're having meetings now about how to raise some money for him," Tom
    O'Brien said.  "All I want to do is make sure that he has a certain
    quality of life when he goes home from the hospital." 

    "I'll be going home someday," said Patrick Culleton,  his smile
    momentarily beating back reality.  "I told you:  I have great faith,
    great faith. Anything's possible." 
8.835CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Wed Aug 28 1991 18:027
What can you say?  I can't think of anything, except that it could be
any number of a ruggers I know in that bed...  Sobering, sobering thought.

Mac, if you hear of an address or a fund or anything, please post it....


'Saw
8.836USRFFCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 28 1991 18:5614
8.837OZARDZ::WASKOMWed Aug 28 1991 21:069
    Injuries happen.  It is truly miserable when they are this devastating. 
    I wish I believed there was a way to avoid them.  :-(
    
    
    'Saw - I'll wait patiently for the best info you have.  Right now, it
    looks like I will be in Sturbridge Saturday morning and have to be back
    there by 9:00 pm.  Rugby in the middle feels like a good thing to do.
    
    A&W 
8.838Any of you rugbyites know this guy?CTHQ3::LEARYThu Aug 29 1991 11:1113
    'Saw et all,
    	Do any of you know a gent named Bob Manifold? He's a big English
    guy who worked for Network Equipment Tech (NET- Nodal processors) out
    of Hartford and was a rugby nut. He played locally in Hartford a couple
    of years ago (89-90) and was always talking about his upcoming rugby
    matches. Haven't talked with him in over a year so I don't know if he
    is still active in rugby (would imagine he still is). He was real
    funny, could REALLY hold his tea, and talked of his English compatriot
    soccer players as "a bunch of fairies and sissies" Anyone know him?
    
    MikeL
    
    
8.839CAM::WAYEeeee, Eeeee, Eeeee...Thu Aug 29 1991 11:2012
Mike,

I haven't heard of him.  I started with HWRFC in fall of 90, so he probably
was gone by that point.  

We've got one English guy, but not him...

I'll ask around....

'Saw
    

8.840Hey Bruce, this Bob sounds like our kind of guy.AXIS::ROBICHAUDSPORTS Goodfellows-Schneid,MrT,Jo*Thu Aug 29 1991 15:201
    
8.841Yo, 'Sawmeister...OZARDZ::WASKOMFri Aug 30 1991 16:513
    ...any idea which field for tomorrow's game?
    
    A&W
8.842CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawFri Aug 30 1991 16:5310
It was announced as the Rock, but be ready to improvise.

We had a leetle clash of sports last night as some soccer weenies wanted
to use our practice field.  Seems that the City of Hartford, in their
esteemed wisdom, gave them *and* us a permit for the same field at the
same times....

I wouldn't doubt we get screwed in the same manner tomorrow...


8.843OZARDZ::WASKOMFri Aug 30 1991 16:594
    Many thanks.  I won't be afraid to drive around 'til I find you guys
    :-)
    
    A&W
8.844CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawFri Aug 30 1991 18:1016
>    Many thanks.  I won't be afraid to drive around 'til I find you guys
>    :-)
>    

I wouldn't do too much driving around in that section of the city.
With the Dutch Point Projects and the apartments up behind Paulie O's
in that area, even us ruggers don't do too much drivin' around...

In fact, we won't even leave a guy alone at the end of practice.  It's
buddy system on the way out...

Last week, there was a bunch of dudes who had moved a sofa out under
a tree at the edge of the practice field,  and they had a_Uzi with 
them.  Not cool....

'Saw
8.845Patrick Culleton FundCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 30 1991 19:189
    Here is the address for contributions for Patrick Culleton, the rugger
    with a broken neck mentioned a few replies back.
    
    Patrick "Punter" Culleton Fund
    8 Chestnut Hill Avenue
    Brighton, MA 02135
    
    You can also contact Tom O'Brien at (617) 364-5494 for more
    information.
8.846OZARDZ::WASKOMFri Aug 30 1991 19:1911
    'Saw -
    
    Believe me, I've figured that out!!!
    
    I meant staying in my car, circling the peripheray of the park, until I
    spotted Wanderers.  Then circle until I find familiar vehicles, park as
    close to them, and go as straight as possible from parking to field.
    
    Huddle among big ruggers for remainder of afternoon  :-)  :-)
    
    A&W
8.847CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawSun Sep 01 1991 20:1973
Well, the Wanderers got off to a really good start yesterday against
White Plains.

Our series with White Plains has been a flip-flop affair since last
Labor Day weekend.  We took two of three from them last Labor Day
weekend, our C side only losing by a point on a last second penalty.

White Plains, with Lambert, beat us a lot to a little in the Ct Cup.
We returned the favor beating them to win Mad River.  They returned
the favor again, defeating us 13-9 in Monmouth last weekend.

So, that set up the matches yesterday.

First, the Hobos (Hartford Old Boys) beat the White Plains Old
Boys quite convincingly 13-3, running their undefeated streak
to 20 games.

Our A side literally took White Plain apart, shutting them out.
I believe the score was like 20-0.

Our B side also shut them out, winning a lot to nothing.

C side played against a combined A and B side players who played again.

We were down at one point in the game, but won by a score resembling
19-10.  The hallmark of the game was scrummaging.

The White Plains back line was superior to ours, and almost all of the
back line play (theirs and ours) consistently spun all the way out
to the wings, which meant that our front row was bone tired about halfway
into the first half 8^)

Our pack hadn't ever scrummed down together before the game.  Because
we had no hooker, we moved Teddy, the tighthead, to hooker, and I
switched to tight head.  Ralph (our B side loosehead) came back to
play another half with us at loosehead.

Our front row was superb, if I do say so myself.  Playing his first
ever game at hooker, Ted managed to steal several of their hooks, and
we were driving them all day.

I had a new guy behind me at second row.  He gave a good push, and once
I told him to get his shoulder a bit lower, it was just consistently 
excellent throughout the first half.

The guy I propped against was good, and his main technique on the way 
in was to try and grab my arm (which was aiming for his shoulder).  I caught
on after the first scrum, and managed to avoid getting grabbed for a good
portion of the game.  While it was competitive, it was also a very
friendly type of thing, because he and I ended up talking to each
other for most of the afternoon.

Once, as a collapsed ruck unpiled, the person on top of me got up, looked
down at me, and (as we recognized each other) we both blurted out
"You again!?"

In the second half we definitely had the toughest bit of rugby I've
ever played.  We were awarded a five meter scrum, with White Plains
and Hartford tied.   On the way in, their loosehead managed to grab
my arm, and their hooker was able to drive me really low, because I couldn't
get a bind.  I hung on like hell to our hooker, and we shoved and shoved
and managed to wheel well past ninety degrees.  The second scrum was
also wheeled, but I had no problems.  Our third time was the charm.
I know we didn't get a walkover, but we did push them back quite a bit.
After coming out of that I was *real* dead tired.

At any rate, the propping was great, and was a boost to my confidence.
Fitness still needs a lot of work, but it is getting there....

Next week, Manhattan, another Met Union team.....


'Saw
8.848CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawTue Sep 03 1991 00:4823
Well after the great start by the Wanderers, the Chainsaw decided
to go out and play some football today, just to loosen up all the muscles
and have some fun....

It has become *painfully* apparent to me that I should have left well
enough alone and stuck to rugby.

Trying my best Larry Csonka imitation today, I royally messed up the first
six weeks of my rugby season by fracturing the outside bone in my left
hand.  I mean, it weren't no leetle crack.... it were a GREAT BIG
break.  In fact the ER doc still isn't sure if it's set properly.
That's for the ortho guy to determine tomorrow or Wednesday....

I'm wicked bitchin' pissed off........


Oh well.....at least I can still run.  I'm learning how to do everything 
right handed...not easy for a lefty..... I've kind of got the one-handed
typing thang down, but in the ER I had to make an "X" on the release
form!!!!!

bummin',
the (broken-link) Chainsaw
8.849BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Sep 03 1991 12:0216
Saw,
	I'm so sorry to hear that!  Who's Larry Csonka?  Sounds like it's time
for you to be playing loosehead.  I hope it's set correctly.
	Tonight's our first practice.  I'll have to be late, as I've got to
go register for night school, (ugh), but I'm pretty psyched.  We don't have
lights yet, so we should have a good hour and a half or so if the team starts
on time.
	I hate hearing about people getting hurt that badly playing.  Usually,
it's a prop who tries to hold a wheel, but this one could have been anyone
(me included).  Every now and then I think about how playing could end me up
badly hurt,  but I think the risks, while non-zero, are pretty low and I'm not
willing to live my life that safely, I'd die of boredom.  As old what's his
face said (bob dylan, I think) "it's better to burn out, then it is to rust".
I don't take that as far as I did in my younger years, but it still holds true.

Rachael
8.850CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawTue Sep 03 1991 12:0726
>	I'm so sorry to hear that!  Who's Larry Csonka?  Sounds like it's time
> for you to be playing loosehead.  I hope it's set correctly.

LC was a HoF fullback for the dolphins, and late in his career, for the
Giants.

I won't be playing for 6 weeks, cause I doubt they'll let me on the pitch w/
a cast.  The ER doc was a former rugger, and he said "NO RUGBY".  The
ortho guy is a sports medicine guy, so hopefuly, he'll make sure U have NO
after effects....


>	Tonight's our first practice.  I'll have to be late, as I've got to
>go register for night school, (ugh), but I'm pretty psyched.  We don't have
>lights yet, so we should have a good hour and a half or so if the team starts
>on time.

Bout time you went to practice young lady!!!!!! 8^)

>face said (bob dylan, I think) "it's better to burn out, then it is to rust".

GREAT thought there.....


'Saw
8.851CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawTue Sep 03 1991 12:086
>ortho guy is a sports medicine guy, so hopefuly, he'll make sure U have NO
                                                                 ^^^



should be an I, but my typing is off today 8^)
8.852CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Sep 03 1991 12:109
    Tough break, 'Saw (no pun intended).  Any chance of just padding it and
    taping it to play?  I played a whole season with a broken bone in my
    hand and I didn't even know it.  It was one of the bones in the middle
    of the hand.  There was a bit of swelling and it was a little sore, but
    I never thought it was broken.  I wore a football handpad on it for
    protection.
    
    I see in the VNS Sports report that Scotland lost to Romania over the
    weekend by a score of 18-12.
8.853TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Tue Sep 03 1991 12:295
RE:  "It's better to burn out than to rust..."

It was Neil Young (great tune too).

Bob
8.854no pun intended either!!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Tue Sep 03 1991 12:2913
    RE: Broken Chainsaw
    
    Too bad, hope it isn't too painful but I'm under the impression that
    manly-man ruggers don't feel pain ('specially during the drink up)!
    
    Hmm, left-hand?  U R a lefty?  Hmmm......
    
    6 weeks of celibacy or are you a switch hitter?
    
    many ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.855CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawTue Sep 03 1991 12:5126
mac, 

i don't think i can do that.

It's the outside bone and i saw the xrays -- really good break.  the doc
in the ER said these have a tendency to pop out even after they're set.
(my knuckle was like disappeared -- about an inch behind the rest.....)

The cast will be set with the third and fourth fingers set down 90 degrees.
Unfortunately, i think that means rugby is out....

Course, even if that is the case i can still do fitness work....


There was not a lot of pain at first.  I managed another play, then iced up.
I've got Motrin to take, but it didn't really bother me until after the doc set
it....  I just hope it set right on the first shot.  Also, the doc
said there is a slight possibility of needing a pin....

I've got an 11:40am appointment, so if I don't come back here, I'll dial
in tonight wif a med report...

'Saw

PS  Kev, not a problem...how do you think ambidexterous people get to
    be that way??????
8.856Seriously, hope it heals quickOZARDZ::WASKOMTue Sep 03 1991 13:3312
    'Saw -
    
    YOU DUMMY!!  I can't imagine a worse fate than having a football injury
    keep you out of rugby.  :-(  Hope you are able to continue to practice
    at some level, and work out.  And I'm still gonna need directions to
    away games......
    
    The A side was more of a blow out than you reported.  Final score was
    40 to zip.  B side I stopped keeping track at 24 or so to zip.  Normal
    outstanding play from Hartford.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.857CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawTue Sep 03 1991 19:1439
Well, it will keep me out.  

The doctor told me under NO circumstances did he even want me breathing
hard near a ptich.  

Here's the deal:

It took three times of grinding bone ends together before it set to his
satisfaction.  That done, there's no cast.  These braks don't
heal correctly with a cast.  The third and fourth fingers are taped
DOWN against the palm.

With no cast, i figured, hey, tape it, play with...  The doc told me that
I don't understand too good.  Then he explained it in a way that even the
dumbest prop could figure out.  

		Drink lots of milk.
		Keep my fingers taped
		Be a good boy
		Come in for appointments on time
		Play rugby in FOUR weeks.

-OR-

		Go play rugby.
		Foul up bones in hand.
		Come back in for him to do the medieval torture thing
	           while he grates the bone ends together again.
		Play rugby again starting in the spring...


Putting it that way, I figured it out....


I'm still bummed, but at least I've got a plan....  Now, where's that
glass of milk.....


'Saw
8.858don't fret 'saw,milk+kahlua=smiliesCTHQ1::LEARYTue Sep 03 1991 19:201
    
8.859Scotland the braveEDUOZ::THURGARTue Sep 03 1991 23:187
    Scotland V Romania
    
    Scotland a real world cup power
    
    I hope Australia dont have to play Romania
    
    Magde
8.860RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOHowdy Doodee, or Ronald Reagan?Wed Sep 04 1991 14:5120
    saw -
    
    Do the smart thang.  My cousin took up rugby while an MP in the Army.
    He messed his shoulder up.  Kept playing.  He messed him hand up so bad
    (kept playing), that when he hurt it the second time, he got discharged
    fromt eh Army because he had to have permanent pins put in, and he
    couldn't hold a weapon correctly (he couldn't properly shoot his
    sidearm...)
    
    He got out of the Army, and kept playing.  He messed his ankle up so
    bad that they thought he might walk with a limp the rest of his life.
    Luckily, he got the message and quit, and he can walk, with no limp
    now.  He was thinking of going back to the sport, but the doctor's told
    him that another ankle or hand injury would leave him seriously
    impaired for life.
    
    Take the time off - but remember, don't do the 16 ounce curls too much,
    or getting back into it will be twice as hard!
    
    JD
8.861muscle bound or bound for muscles???CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Wed Sep 04 1991 15:0912
    
    
    Da Sarge is right 'Saw.  Don't do too many 16 oz. curls.  Pick
    
    either dozens of reps of the 7-8 oz variety or just a couple
    
    of 24 oz.  (I think Fosters has just the right "weight"!
    
    ;^)
    
    kev
    
8.862CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawWed Sep 04 1991 15:0918
JD --

As someone who invariably looks for something good in every bad thing,
and who says "hey, could be worse, right?" more than anyone I know,
I believe I've found a silver lining in this:

	I've been wanting to drop between five and ten pounds at least, 
	but can't do it during the seaons.  If I cut the calories a little
	I feel it big time.

	But now, now I can go on a decent diet, and do a lot of running
	and hopefully take 5-10 or do off....

So, hopefuly I can still salvage something good outta here for the
next four weeks.


'Saw (who really HEARD the doc)
8.863<2% body fat = floats like a rock! :*(CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Wed Sep 04 1991 15:1718
    Seriously 'Saw,
    
    Yesterday you mentioned he (the Doc) "ground" the bones down or
    
    something to that effect.  How did he do that?  Were you operated on?
    
    Did he cut you?  Didja get stiches?  How many?  Can you go swimming?
    
    Swimming might be a terrific way to build up more endurance,
    
    flexability and all around strength.  I'm sure that Skwak or Dan'l
    
    (being famous ex-swimming champs) would be glad to coach ya?
    
    Heavy duty laps.  Yeah, that's the ticket.  Laps.
    
    Kev
    
8.865and who the lucky one was who shaved his body!!!CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Wed Sep 04 1991 15:511
    
8.866CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawWed Sep 04 1991 16:4433
Kev, 

He didn't really grind the bones in that sense.  While he was reducing the
fracture, I was able to feel the shattered ends of the bone rubbing together
in a most odious manner.

While it was not the *most* painful thing I've ever experienced, it was
not something I'd want to go through every week...

Just before he came in, one of the other docs was working on some guy
next door who literally kept screaming.  I decided then and there that
no matter how much it hurt, I wasn't gonna make a sound.  And I didn't.

It wasn't trying to be tough or show off, it was just a way to get
psyched to deal with something I knew was going to be unpleasant.
I just decided that I *wasn't* going to cry out, I wasn't going to pass
out, and that I wasn't going to not deal with it.  Mind over matter...
This time I did it.  Another time, who knows....

As to swimming, I don't like to swim like that.  I've never been very
relaxed in the water, and I've heard that swimming uses a different
bunch of muscles than running.  

I'm not worried about running.  I've got the time now to go do it,
and like Bo, I'm just gonna rehab myself....  I just wish I could lift.

But, the gym does have (I'm pretty sure) a disability clause, so I won't
be losing any money....


Wish me luck!

'Saw
8.867neither one is detrimental to running!CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Wed Sep 04 1991 17:4720
    'Saw,
    
    True, swimming does use different muscles than running but then
    
    again, so does bo-dee-oh-doe (snicker).
    
    Does that mean you won't do a little rolling in the hay during
    
    the rugby season? Poor poor woodie!!!!
    
    I'd give up running before I gave up that!  Mountain man, I
    
    (giggle) commend you and tip my hat!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
    
    
8.868CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawWed Sep 04 1991 17:571
Yeah, but one I like, the other I don't.....
8.869BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Sep 05 1991 11:126
You guys are really perpetuating male stereotypes in your immediate concern
expressed for 'Saw's ability to masterbate and have sex.  (Oh, sorry, was
I supposed to use some cute euphamism?)  And Freud thought women were
obsessed with male genitalia.

Rachael
8.870CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawThu Sep 05 1991 11:238
>You guys are really perpetuating male stereotypes in your immediate concern
>expressed for 'Saw's ability to masterbate and have sex.  (Oh, sorry, was
>I supposed to use some cute euphamism?)  And Freud thought women were
>obsessed with male genitalia.


Maybe that's because we're all stereotypical males....;^)

8.871Must be in the genes(jeans?)!!CTHQ2::LEARYThu Sep 05 1991 12:284
    Rachael,
    	You know that most men think with their little haid!
    8^)
    
8.873CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawThu Sep 05 1991 14:1080
Yeah, I don't need a lot of concern either.  I'm sitting up, taking
nourishment, holding my own as it were.

And I don't know about what Sigmund Freud says, but I've been awfully
obsessed with female genitalia for a long time now.

-------------------
Moving right along, the drinkup after the White Plains game was good.
White Plains did a little singing.

They did a little number called Singing in the Rain.  It was a audience
participation number.

Two of the guys got up on one of the picnic tables on the patio.  They
sang a chorus of Singing in the Rain and then said:

	Knees bent.

while they bent their knees.
and the audience replied
	
	Knees bent.

They sang another chorus and said

	Knees bent (echoed from the audience)
	Back staight (echoed)

	Another chorus of SitR

	Knees Bent (echo)
	Back Straight
        Elbows In

	SitR

	Knees Bent (echo)
	Back Straight
        Elbows In
	Right Thumb in the Nostril
	Left Thumb in the Nostril
 
	Another chorus of SitR.

	Knees Bent (echo)
	Back Straight
        Elbows In
	Right Thumb in the Nostril
	Left Thumb in the Nostril
 	Stick Out your tongue

At this point, I was in hysterics, because these two guys were lookin'
awfully funny.

After the next Chorus, it got really interesting.  They did the body
things, and the next one was 

	Shirts Off.

Which was followed by Shorts Off.

Now they're in the skivvies, doing a chorus of SitR.

After that, they stopped, said that before they did the next part that
any Irish guys were invited to join them on the table, so that they 
looked better, and then started through the whole body things list,
ending with

	Skivvies OFf.

Now, completely nuded up, they did a chorus of SitR, while everyone
sprinkled them with Beer...

I laughed so hard my sides hurt!!!!


Best drinkup yet....

'Saw

8.874CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawThu Sep 05 1991 14:1718
HWRFC plays Manhattan this weekend in Colt Park.

I have this thing against Met Union teams because A) they're dirty SOBs
and B) they never bring enough guys for even two full sides, yet they
commit to three games...

Not that I have to worry about playing.

Chances are that I won't even be at the game anyway, since I've got an
opportunity to make a little cash money on Saturday, working for a friend.

If it was league season, or I was playing, it would be one thing.  
Otherwise, seein' as it's just Manhattan.....


Four weeks is seeming like FOREVER.......

'Saw
8.875SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 05 1991 14:416
    Leeds University did a rousing rendition of Singing in the Rain for the
    WRFC a few years back.  It almost cost us the use of our regular
    post-match venue.  It turned out OK in the end, though since from then
    on we got our own private room upstairs -- until some other problems
    arose.  But even that came out OK since we now frequent an
    establishment that absolutely loves us.
8.876CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawThu Sep 05 1991 15:3810
Well, it is on my personal HoF list, along with

	"It's a Long Way to Tipperary"

as performed by the lads of Pulburough RFC......


heh, heh, heh.....

'Saw
8.877BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Sep 05 1991 19:4811
I've had the great good fortune to see singing in the rain performed by
MIT a bunch of times, as well as Hatfield Polytechnic last time they toured
her, and a few French teams, (Ecole Central Polytechnic) when we were in France.
I'd have to say, I didn't watch the ending.  Even when I went out with men,
I never thought there was too much attraction in the limply flailing object.

There's a song the French sing which you GUYS  would like.  I don't know
the words, but the chorus goes "Allah, allah allah" with them all down on
their knees salaaming the might thing-that-you-GUYS-worry-about-so-much.

Rachael
8.878AITE::WASKOMThu Sep 05 1991 20:0013
    I was there for the most recent performance.  And I got an answer to a
    question asked by Mr. Needle in another string about how I remain such
    a romantic in this conference.......
    
    I work at it!  I saw what direction this one was moving in rather early
    on, enjoyed the early verses, and departed for other parts of the bar
    when the shirts came off.
    
    
    I mean heck - if the little bugger ain't sittin' up and payin'
    attention to me, why should I care anyway?
    
    A&W
8.879From the college years34873::KIRKMANOnly 9 days 'til the ceremonyThu Sep 05 1991 22:1611
    A friend of friend who is a rugby player related a stunt the team
    pulled at the wedding of one of the players.  He called it the
    "elaphant walk".  It involved the team walking through the reception,
    nude, in a line, with each guy having one hand on the shoulder of the
    guy in front of him.  
    
    Must have raised a bit of a ruckus at the reception.
    
    Commander Scott
    
    P.S. Are all rugby players that rowdy?
8.880My vote for NOTE OF THE YEAR! A&W Great line!!!!CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Thu Sep 05 1991 22:231
    
8.881CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawFri Sep 06 1991 11:3813
I dunno, I thought it was hysterical.  The mighty sword or floppy sausage
doesn't turn me on whatever state it's in.  That said, however, from 
my point of view *my* little Wermacht guy(tm) is important to *me*

But I think there is something hysterically funny about a nude man,
dancing around on a table while people sprinkle him with beer.

Ruggers get nuded up sometimes.  I don't know why.  But like the 
beer commercial says "Why ask why?"

I was just disappointed no one did "The S&M Man".....

'Saw
8.882WRFC updateCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 06 1991 12:005
    The WRFC travels to Newport, RI tomorrow to open up the league season. 
    I'll be playing lock for the second side.
    
    Sunday, Sept. 15, the WRFC will be sponsoring a college rugby clinic at
    Quinsigamond State Park.  The clinic is free.
8.883CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawFri Sep 06 1991 12:229
>
>    The WRFC travels to Newport, RI tomorrow to open up the league season. 
>    I'll be playing lock for the second side.
    


I see the  WRFC selectors are still suffering from Rectal-Cranial-Insertion.

Well, at least you cain play ;^)
8.884AITE::WASKOMFri Sep 06 1991 14:0813
    No, not all ruggers are that rowdy.  After all, while the floor show
    was going on I was able to find others to talk to.  And there were 
    more in the audience than "on stage".  However, there does seem to be 
    a tendency for the rowdy to like rugby.  And drink-ups and the like 
    provide perfect opportunities for the naturally rowdy to let it all 
    hang out.  I don't even really dislike it, except when it causes 
    problems for the host club.  It's all part of the ambiance, if you
    will.
    
    A&W
    
    PS Mac, I can't believe what they're doing to you.  What are you, the
    utility pack player or something?
8.885CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 06 1991 14:144
8.886Nude up, it'll make you feel fine....CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawFri Sep 06 1991 14:4312
Mac, you don't have to worry unless they ask you to hook.  Then you 
*KNOW* you're the Steve Lyons of the pack....

As to problems at Hartford Drinkups, since we own the bar, what problems
could there be??? 8^)


Actually, it weren't no big deal.  They asked for Irish guys to help them
out.  If they'd have asked for Scottish guys, then the Chainsaw
woulda been nudin' up for the cause 8^)

'Saw
8.888CARROL::LEFEBVREFor best results, squeeze bottomFri Sep 06 1991 15:018
    Hawk, we should try to keep in mind that there are many "non-regulars"
    that read this conference.  I can't tell you how many times I've been
    to various DEC sites and have someone ask me, "say, do you participate
    in xxxx notesfile?".  
    
    You never know when a comment made in notes can come back to haunt you.
    
    Mark.
8.889CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 06 1991 15:1214
8.890kept mumbling about pernicular appendage addiction.....CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis today??Fri Sep 06 1991 15:3510
    re: "Worcester has 3 legitimate hookers..."
    
    Nope, at least not anymore.  City vice squad arrested them
    
    last night along with some guy named "John"!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.891BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 06 1991 15:5124
Sometimes I get really frustrated because larger people often get picked over
me, and they are certainly noticed easier.  However, I am eternally grateful
that Beantown would never, ever put me at second row in a game.  In practice,
sometimes, and that's bad enough.

One of our A-side flankers is not playing this season.  In a way, I'm psyched.
But I'm still not sure what chance that gives me.  Somebody larger is thinking
of going out for flanker.  My girlfriend is sick of filling in at second
row, she's really a flanker and has been asked to go to the ERU and US camps
for that.   And who knows who else will show up.  Not to mention the current
competition.  But, in any case, I still think I'll get a chance at it.

We are also hosting a clinic Sunday the 15th, for the colleges and the weaker
women's clubs.  All are welcome, including individuals.  Cost is $10 for the
day, it'll be held at MIT.

In my opinion:
As for rowdy, well we are all rowdy on the field, you have to be to be a good
player.   I would imagine we're all rowdy in private, it just shows in different
ways.  I don't tend to drink and run around naked (sorry, Sig), but I'm not 
considered terribly conservative, either.  


Rachael
8.892Rugby players ain't rowdy ;^)CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 06 1991 20:1210
    You want to talk rowdy?  News reports in these parts show that a Gaelic
    Football team from Ireland got a little rowdy at the Sheraton Tara in
    Framingham.  Seems they got a little unreasonable when the bartender
    wanted to shut down and go home -- it was 2 am afterall.  The police
    were called in and there were several arrests.
    
    I don't know the details, but when I first heard about it it was "Hey,
    did you hear about that rugby team?"  When I heard it was the Sheraton
    Tara, I said it couldn't have been a rugby team.  The frugal rugby tour
    companies that I know of never spring for more than a Days Inn.
8.893ALDFJAL;!!!!!!!!RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOMr.Haney-ConArtist or Entrepreneur?Fri Sep 06 1991 20:409
    GUEEL GUYS IS TWO MUCHO - WAD ALI TALK ABOOT MEET???  ESPECIAIALLILLY
    SUANAAGES!!!!  VIETNNAESE SAWSACKS!! ETALIAN SAUSAGG!! WHEREMARK
    SNASAGE!  TO MACH SAUSAGEING KNOW GOD FER EWE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  AND
    MASTERTONIBASTAGNOINING!!!  DATS A SIGN ACCORDIAN THE BIBBLE!  YOU
    GUIYS AREW SICK!   SASUSAGE AND MASTERBATESTATIONS!  KNOOD DANCIN BY
    RAGBY PLAYERS ON TIBBLES IN BARS!!!  I DONOT NO PAL, BUT RUGBEE SUND
    KINDA WEERD TA ME!!!!!!!!!!   
    
    ROLPH
8.894CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawMon Sep 09 1991 11:5161
On Saturday, HWRFC played Manhattan in Colt Park.  I managed to get
my work done early, make a cool $50, and make the game.  (Ain't drug deals
great 8^))  <--- Just *kidding*......

We had a big screwup with the fields, but as things turned out, we were
on a better field anyway.  Because it was the regulation football field, 
we lined it with the goal posts on the try line, and ended up with a 120
yard pitch.  Definitely not a forward's field...

The ref for the A game was the second worst ref known to man, (the worst
ref being the old dude from the Met Union).  Hartford played like sh_t
in the first half, and at halftime they were down 12-7.  Manhattan was 
out-rucking us, beating us with the rolling maul, and their second try
had one of the best backline fakes I've ever seen, with both our inside
and outside center levelling the guy who they thought had the ball, while
the real ball carrier literally skipped untouched 8 yards into the zone.

We regrouped at half time and came out to play some hard rugby in the 
second half.  Since the ref was not calling offsides, there was a lot
of rucking into ribs going on, and guys pulling offside players out
of the way, in a rather rough manner.

Manhattan was not done, as they scored one more try early, pulling
ahead 16-7.

A penalty kick was missed by Glen Judge, but a few minutes later another
opportunity closed Hartford to 16-10.

At that point, Hartford started taking over.  As if waking from a dream,
there was some new found energy with the boys in Green and Black, and they
began a series of relentless rucks that ended with some nice back line
work, and a try for Hartford.  Glen missed the kick from a tough angle
and Hartford was now down by just 2 points, 16-14.

A few minutes later, Hartford again put it together, with some really
nice work by the pack which started from a five meters scrum.
The forwards tried to walk it over, but to no avail.  Another scrum
was whistled up, and they again tried to walk it over, getting close,
but not close enough.  The ball came out, and they tried going weak side.
Ultimately, it moved back strong side, where one of the flankers bulled
over for the try.  Glen made the kick, and the scored stood at 20-16
Hartford.  That was the way it would stay until no-side was whistled.


Hartford did a good job, but they didn't have their heads in the game
early.  I think this team has the talent to go undefeated in the league
season, but they need a bit more self discipline.  It would also help
if we stay injury free.  So far, the injuries have only hit the loose
forwards, where we are especially deep.


B Side won a lot to a like one try, scoring almost at will.

C side was non-existent.  With a back line made up of C side guys, and
a rag-tag pack made up of a couple of Manhattan guys two Hartford guys,
an Old Boy, and who knows what else, C side lost to a squad from UCONN,
16-0.....

All in all, not a bad day of rugby....

'Saw (who didn't play, but watched....)
8.896Worcester vs Newport Match ReportCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 09 1991 12:3445
    Saturday was a beautiful day for rugby, although a bit warmer than we
    were expecting.  Worcester travelled to Newport, RI for a thoroughly
    enjoyable day.  We got a scare early as 10 minutes before the game was
    scheduled to kick off, our starting scrum half and standoff were
    missing.  They turned up in the nick of time after negotiating the
    International Boat Show traffic.
    
    The game started off a little slow with both sides feeling each other
    out.  Worcester started turning up the intensity on the strength of
    their loose play.  The game turned into a 44-0 rout in Worcester's
    favor.
    
    It was good to see us win a game we were supposed to win and win it
    big.  Many times in the past we dropped our play to the level of our
    opponent and got out with some ugly wins.  Recently we've also had
    problmes scoring tries.  Such was not the case on Saturday.
    
    In the B side game we actually had more than 15 players available.  For
    a few of the guys, it was a one-shot deal (in the area for the weekend,
    students whose schedule hadn't started yet, etc.) but it was a good
    sign.  The forwards featured several players who have been on the
    A-side and hope to return in the near future.  The backs were a
    different story, however, featuring several rookies and a couple
    players out of position.  Based on this, the game was basically
    dominated by a Worcester team without a scoring punch.
    
    The Worcester forwards ruled the pitch.  Newport put on a good
    defensive stand early as we failed to punch one in even after 2 or 3
    5-meter scrums.  An inexplicable penalty took Newport off the hook and
    they were able to clear it.  We finally punched one in later in the
    half.  Soon after Newport answered back taking advantage of some missed
    tackles.  The game stood knotted at 4-4 at the half.  Worcester tallied
    the winning try about midway through the second half after being
    awarded a penalty around Newport's 35.  The scrumhalf quickly tapped it
    through the mark and started the ball moving among a combination of the
    backs and forwards.  A couple of rucks later saw a Worcester touching
    it down.  Newport mounted a late surge, but after Worcester won 2 or 3
    scrums against the head by literally driving Newport backwards 5 meters
    or better each time, the whistle for full time blew.  Worcester B 8,
    Newport  B 4.
    
    On a side note, I didn't have a chance to see much of Newport, but what
    I did see were a lot of downed trees and branches as a result of
    hurricane Bob.  One of the beaches was just jammed with downed timber
    and wrecked cabanas.  They are still digging themselves out down there.
8.897CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawMon Sep 09 1991 12:4023
Our B side game was a high spirited affair, and pretty friendly.

One of the props from Manhattan was the infamous "Heavy D", the big, huge
black dude, who ran a try in from mid-field in the Yahoo 7s tournament....


The ref for the B game was better, and at one point, some of the 
Hartford fans were good naturedly grousing about him missing an offsides
call.

In a goofing mood, I yelled out "HOOEY, Sir, that was a *hooey* call".
Well, he started to laugh, held out his whistle, and motioned for
me to come ref.  I started to laugh, and yelled back "No, Sir, you 
run faster than I do..."  

It's nice when a game can be that good natured....



Mac, glad to hear things went well.  Nothing like getting off to a
good start.....

'Saw
8.898CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 09 1991 12:5216
8.899CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawMon Sep 09 1991 12:5813
HA!  A prop rambling 25 yards...musta made his weekend!

In the B game, our 8man, Bob Hess (he got put on B's because we got an
ERU guy at A side 8man) rambled the entired length of the field.  With
one guy to beat he got by him, but got dragged down from behind (got his
jersey grabbed) a yard out from the try zone.  Our backs were up there 
supporting and we scored anyway though.

I didn't have the heart to remind Bob after the match that if it had been
a regulation pitch he'd have had a try.......


'Saw
8.900CAM::WAYChange Node Id - The B* ChainsawMon Sep 09 1991 16:0322
Phew....

Just did 3.4....  Hot, sweaty, but feeling good inside.

And I discovered something that's gonna do me fine, dietwise.
In case you folks didn't know it, the Chainsaw just has this big ol'
appetite.  And when I'm dieting, I get the munchies something fierce
at times.

So, when I was out shopping the other evening, I was looking around
for something that I could have when I get those "Prime Time TV Muchies"
and I found it....

Sugar Free JELLO!  I mean, an entire package has just 32 calories!  Hell,
I can work that off bending over to tie my shoes.  One serving is just
8 calories.

I'm so wicked pysched.  I mean 8 calories... I can work that off while
I jiggle the JELLO around in the dish before I eat it!!!!!!!


'Saw
8.901ICS::FINUCANETraveler of both time &amp; spaceMon Sep 09 1991 16:568
    
    
    Oh, yes....that culinary dee-lite, JELLO.....
    
    Gee, it just brings back all sorts of warm fuzzy memories of IV's and 
    johnnys and Demerol shots.  Well, the Demerol wasn't that bad....  8-)
    
    c-meister
8.902CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Mon Sep 09 1991 16:597
We have Jello-Shots at the bar.  They make them with Absolut.  
Nasty things really, but they sell for a buck a shot, and they go, 
believe me....

But, like I said, even with a busted paw I can burn off 8 calories....8^)

'Saw
8.903Another reason to not like rugbyWMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardMon Sep 09 1991 17:3016
    'Saw,
    
    Last night I found another reason to believe that Rugby ain't so tuff.
    
    I caught two Hurling matches on Sportschannel.Tip over Cork, and
    Kilkenney downing Dublin.
    
    These guys are nuts!  It made hockey look like playground stuff with
    all the contact.  Great action that never stopped, even when one guy
    got all bloodied.
    
    All- 
    Does anyone know if there are any videos out on this game!
    
    Conan
    
8.904CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Mon Sep 09 1991 17:4142
>    
>    Last night I found another reason to believe that Rugby ain't so tuff.
>    

Try it, then say that.  People think that it's just the collision/contact
of rugby that's tough.  It's far more than that.  A tight five player
will go through several different types of muscle strength in a short period
of time.

Imagine hunkering down and trying to move a large immovable boulder.
You push against it for 30 seconds or so, then get up, run as fast
as you can, flat out, and someone blasts you off your feet onto the
ground.  You get up, run flat out again, and then you have to stop
and Greco-Roman wrassle someone -- again you end up on the ground.

Back to the boulder.  Hunker down, push against the boulder.  Hear the
whistle, back down against the boulder.  Yet another whistle, back
down against the boulder....


Now, repeat that for 80 minutes with one 5 minute break.


>    I caught two Hurling matches on Sportschannel.Tip over Cork, and
>    Kilkenney downing Dublin.

Tough sport, but different.
    
>    These guys are nuts!  It made hockey look like playground stuff with
>    all the contact.  Great action that never stopped, even when one guy
>    got all bloodied.
    
On any given pitch, at any given time, there's a lot more than one guy
bloodied.  If you're not bloodied, you've got cleat marks on your back,
bruises on your ribs, jammed fingers, scrapes etc....


'Saw

PS  Mac and I would be more than glad to give a clinic for anyone who
    thinks they have enough "ganes" to come out and see what it's all
    about....
8.905BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Sep 09 1991 18:0013
	'Saw, I'd be happy to help you and Mac on that clinic offer, but I
wouldn't want to hurt anyone what with DEC's hiring freeze and all.


	Jello reminds me of my hospital days when I got that neat little
scar that goes tailbone to neckbone, with that foot of metal inside.  I
could tell within 5 minutes when it was time for my morphine, and I sure
didn't feel like eating.  The first thing they tried to get me to eat was
jello, which I never liked even in happier moments.



Rachael
8.907WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardMon Sep 09 1991 18:146
    hawk, if you had seen these hurler (I don't know if there are womans
    teams) swinging thier sticks at each other, and a ball flying around at
    about 100mph, you'd want more than ear tape and spacesuit.  8^)
    
    Conan
    
8.908CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 09 1991 18:221
    Just remember this:  rugby players don't need no steenkin' sticks.
8.909CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Mon Sep 09 1991 18:2716
That's right....

And you had to love Dave Krupp's remark as he came off the field midway
in the first half:

	After stripping off his sweaty jersey to give to the sub,
	he said, "It's broken".

	"What's broken, Dave?"

	"My collarbone.  It doesn't hurt, but it's broken"


Sure 'nuff, it was...

'Saw
8.910RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOMr.Haney-ConArtist or Entrepreneur?Mon Sep 09 1991 18:4910
    Saw, and to an extent, Mac -
    
    Well you engage in self-rugby-love ;-), let me tell ya something:
    
    Hurling has LONG been considered the roughest sport on the planet.
    Makes everything else tame in comparison.
    
    Now, back to the Rugby is for macho guys etc. crap.
    
    JD
8.911CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Mon Sep 09 1991 18:5716
JD, Hurl this ;^)


I'm sitting here wetting myself, I'm laughing so hard.

I noticed on my Rugby calendar that this past weekend in Lancaster PA
they held the Amishland Ruggerfest.

I like the Amish, but the funniest scene popped into my mind, of 
these Amish dudes, hats and beards and all, out there playin' rugby.

too funny!

'Saw

PS  You'd never see the Amish hurling.....
8.912ya probably adores moms mabley tooCTHQ1::LEARYMon Sep 09 1991 19:004
    Irene Ryan?
    
    Granny mighta been a babe b4 electricity, whew 8^)
    
8.913:-0RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOWasEllieMaeNaive,oraTease?Mon Sep 09 1991 19:138
    Saw -
    
    Dare ya to play some Hurling.  One game and you'd be back to Rugby,
    where its safe.
    
    And don't even try Gaelic Football.
    
    JD
8.914BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Sep 09 1991 19:474
	I've always felt a game where you had to use a stick to hit each other
was somewhat unsporting.  

Rachael
8.915Hey, stop picking on hockey ;-).VAXWRK::NEEDLEMoney talks. Mine says &quot;Good-Bye!&quot;Mon Sep 09 1991 20:060
8.916WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardMon Sep 09 1991 22:1211
    Re .914
    
    I dunno.  It seemed so equal cause every one has a stick, and when you
    lose one, someone throws one to you from the sidelines! 8^)
    
    Awesome game!  JD, where can you check out Gailic Football?
    
    Conan
    
    P.S.  Great line... Rugby_Self_Love...
    
8.917Hurling w/o sticks := poor man's rugbyCAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Tue Sep 10 1991 11:109
We have two gaelic football players on the Wanderers.  Cahal, the flanker
who moved up here from Dallas (originally he was from Jersey) and Peter,
a winger who moved here from Ireland last year.

Both say that by far and away rugby demands more fitness and is rougher
than gaelic football...

hth,
'Saw
8.918BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Sep 10 1991 11:1615
	I would never pick on hockey, I played four years of hockey in
college.  However, you have to admit, it's a lot more fun hitting people
with your body than with the stick.  Sticks are better for tripping.

	By the way, it occurs to me that we're getting all this BS about
how tuff we're not from someone that saw hurling and Gaelic Football on
TV while sitting back in an armchair and probably sipping a light beer.
I'm not too worried...  :^)

Rachael

PS

I got two of my plane tickets for the season, only one more to go.
My poor visa bill.
8.919CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Wed Sep 11 1991 15:3521
YES!  YES! YES! YES!

Went to the doc's today.  Had my X-rays taken, and the doc comes in wif
this big ass smile on his face, like a kid at Christmas.  He says to me
"You can't get a position better than that" and shows me my X-ray.

I said "Where do we go from here".  He says, we keep doing what we're
doing.  I said, "Still four weeks total?"  He says, "Nah, three should
do it!".

Then he gave me some little exercises to do for the two fingers taped
down.  He told me those joints can freeze up, and it wouldn't do to heal
the fractured bone and then have messed up joints.  So, every other day
I've got to do some therapy on those fingers....

I'm psyched!!!!

'Saw

PS  If any of you athletic types ever have need of an ortho doc, be sure
    to get on in a sports practice.  It does make all the difference....
8.920Finga sangwich?CTHQ1::LEARYWed Sep 11 1991 15:392
    Jest keep 'em away from yo' probiscus when manipulatin' HTH 8^)
    
8.921CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Wed Sep 11 1991 15:537
Have to.

The ring finger can and should get full extension.  The little finger
should stay in the position it's in, and just get the joint in the finger
itself worked.

I'm psyched...
8.922In...Out...Dig Around 2 3 4....GENRAL::WADEWed Sep 11 1991 16:325
    
    	I can see it now.  'Saw will be doing exercises to his
    	"Joe Walton's Finger Exercise Video".  :*)
    
    	Claybone
8.924CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Wed Sep 11 1991 18:177
Hawk,

You should seriously think about becoming a trainer.  Just think
how many grateful wimmin ruggers there would be when you used the
Magic Sponge on them.....

'Saw
8.925BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Sep 11 1991 20:056
> grateful wimmin ruggers ???  Hawk???

Sig, maybe.   Hawk, it'd be more like the occaisional wimmin rugger.  This
is not volleyball we're talking about, remember?

Rachael
8.926CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Fri Sep 13 1991 02:3212
>Sig, maybe.   Hawk, it'd be more like the occaisional wimmin rugger.  This
>is not volleyball we're talking about, remember?

Hawk/Sig, what's the difference?  He/She has one a them there complexes.

I ain't figured out if'n it's one of them Sybil thangs, or what.  It might
be one of them things like in the old Commander Cody song "He's in Love,
He's in Trouble".......


8^)
'Saw
8.927BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 13 1991 11:3620
	We had practice again last night and once again, we are beating the
crap out of each other in just a few drills.  Must be something about all
these rookies, usually I don't end up so beaten in practice.
	We have many, many rookies and new players who aren't rookies.  That's
great, but it also poses some real challenges.  There's not another team in 
New England with a full B-side, some of them have a hard time making an A-side.
And we might need C-games.
	We have one open A-side flanker spot, and about 8 people going for it.
There are about three who I am pretty competative with, and about five I
think I can beat.  Those of us who really stand a chance have very different
attributes, so it will be interesting to see who makes it.  I have aggression,
speed, fitness and experience going for me, but lack size and am mediocre in
lineouts (getting better, but a ways to go).  Some of the others
are larger but less fit, larger and faster but much less experienced, and 
smaller and slower but more experienced.  It'll be interesting to see how
it all shakes out. It's going to be a tough choice for the selectors.
	Congratulations on the good news, Saw.  Mac, good luck with your clinic
this weekend.  I'm really looking forward to ours.

Rachael
8.928CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Fri Sep 13 1991 13:2926
Rach --

I'm probably not telling you something you don't already know, but
lineouts for "small" folks are easy.

If you're jumping, use your hips.  Barge your hip into the other person,
and jump in front of her.  You'll win most times.  If you're stripping,
it sounds like you've got the quickness so it shouldn't be a problem.

Our lineouts work like this:


	1   2   3   4   5   6   7  
        lh  2d  th  2d  fl  8   fl

If 2 receives, 5 strips
If 4 receives, 1 strips
If 6 receives, 1 strips

3 ( usually me) always binds or follows down the line
7 binds or recieves sometimes.


And finally, If the WHOLE line barges, they won't call it 8^)

'Saw
8.929BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 13 1991 16:3329
Saw,
	You're advise is quite sound, and it's something our #8 does very
well.  She's not too tall and she doesn't jump very high, but she's very
hard to stop at the 2 jumping position.
	My problem with being short in lineouts is that I'd have to jump
about 3 feet into the air in order to take a ball that's not easily 
intercepted by all the players in front of me.  I play 6th usually.  I really
need to be at 7, so I can take a long ball thrown over, but I rarely play there.
My most frequent partner is even smaller then I am, so I take the jumping spot.
I can mess up my opponent's throws and get overthrows (past 4 or 2) pretty well, 
but I have a hard time getting a ball thrown to me.

We usually play:

	1   2   3   4   5   6   7  
       lh   8  2d  2d  th  fl   fl

My size disadvantage spans beyond lineouts though.  It is a given on our team
that size is an advantage.  So, if I have the same skills as someone larger,
they will get picked.  If I'm a little better, they might still pick the other
person and develop them, since they will see them as having more of a future.
They tend to think about people in a position relative to how you would fare
in ERU and national selections, and the ERU selectors and national selectors
are looking for larger players.  One of the National side flankers is almost
the same size as me, but she's faster.  You have to prove that you're better
at something important if you're smaller, you can't just be equal.  Not an
absolute rule on our team, but a good bet.

Rachael
8.930CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Fri Sep 13 1991 17:509
Rach -- 

I've always felt the most important thing for a flanker is being within
a yard of the ball at all times ;^)  THEN comes size.  Height is an
advantage, but it can't make up for spunkiness...

Good luck.  Keep chasing the dream....

'Saw
8.931CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Sun Sep 15 1991 19:3631
Well, Hartford's league season started with our seemingly perennial first
game opponent, Charles River.

The Old Boys won their 22nd game in a row by beating the Charles River
Old Boys a lot to a little, before the main event.

Hartford's A side annihilated River 23-6.  It really wasn't much of 
a contest, but then Charles River rarely is.

Hartford's B side did them in even better, a lot to nothing.  I touched
judged the second half, and after one Hartford try, as I lined up at
the post to judge the conversion attempt, I heard a Charles River rugger
tell his mates "Way to go boys, that's the longest we've kept them from
scoring".  

I also found out that my hand is doing fairly well.  Running down the
line to mark where the play went into touch I attempted to stop quickly
in the wet conditions, and not wearing rugby boots but rather sneakers
I landed on my a__.  Before my a__ hit, I landed on my hand.  Now I *know*
I'll be back in two weeks.

C side also beat River.  It was a chippy game, but it was fun to watch.
Ralph, our loosehead prop put on an exhibition that was fun to watch.
He was hitting everything in sight, and late in the game he even booted
a little up and under, and missed the guy who caught it by a hair's breadth.

All in all not a bad way to start the league season....

Next week is New Haven.....

'Saw
8.932BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Sep 16 1991 11:1336
	We had our coaching clinic Sunday, I think it was a great success.
We're never sure beforehand how many will show up, as it depends in large
part to how hung over the colleges are Sunday when they wake up, but we
had about 65 players attend, plus about 15 of our players and one of our
coaches.  The collegiate players came from as far as western Ma and Me.
	We did ball handling and small area skills in the morning inside.
We had just the right amount of space for the people, we could have squeezed
a few more in, but not many. In the afternoon we split them up into backs,
tight five, and loose forwards, and worked individual skills.  Then we did
2 scrimmages with 10 minutes halves each, so they all got to play.
	It was such a treat to have those players there, they have such 
spirit and a great attitude.  My college days of awful rugby are still quite
clear in my mind, it wasn't that long ago, so I welcome the chance to teach
them some skills to improve their game.  Of course, a lot of these guys
are better then we were when I was in school, but even so, it's a far cry
from club rugby.
	I played in the scrimmages as they were short in a few positions, I
played #8 in the first one and prop in the second.  Both times I went in
the scrums and did my job, then hung around in the backfield and tried to stay
out of the way the rest of the time, occaisionally catching breakaways. There
were a few other Beantown players filling in, they did the same.  It was fun,
but the girl I propped against was almost 6 feet tall and big and, well, she
had some fat on her.  She must have weighed at least 180lbs.  Luckily, she 
didn't really know how to  use it to destroy me, so I lived.
	Mac, I hope your clinic went well.  There was a men's coaching clinic
Sunday which Ed Browder was speaking at, was it yours or another one?
	Thanks for the encouragement Saw.  I calmed down a lot after last 
Tuesday, I had to or else I wouldn't have gotten any work done.  Realizing
that all of us are different, and that if someone gets picked over me it's
because of our differences and not that they're better at what I'm good at,
helped.  Also, I think the bunch of us that are trying out for the spot are
pulling together rather then tearing apart, and that's really positive.  Not
to say that we're lacking aggression in trying out, but we're not being
selfish.

Rachael
8.933CAM::WAYIrene Ryan is SUCH a babe!Mon Sep 16 1991 11:199
Then too, Rachael, I'm sure politics enters into it a bit.  As pure
as we'd like the game to be, in any human activity where humans select
others, politics will rear its ugly head.

I just play to have fun.  Someone told me that the difference between
A and C side is that C side doesn't have any heroes.  They're all out
there to have fun...  That's what I like....

'Saw
8.934News from ParisEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredTue Sep 17 1991 11:3339
8.935CAM::WAYPlayin in the UNIX playgroundTue Sep 17 1991 11:379
Congrats Ed!

And on your retiring your #7 and moving to #4 or #5, all I can say
is welcome to the Tight Five, where men are men, and everyone else is
a sissy-boy [many 8^)]

Keep your game reports coming.....

'Saw
8.936SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Sep 17 1991 13:3415
    Since Worcester had the weekend off, I took the opportunity to see the
    lads I'm coaching play a match.  WPI played Holy Cross on Saturday. 
    The game went better than I had expected.  Although WPI lost by alot,
    the score wasn't quite indicative of their play.  We've got some good
    things to build on from the match, as well as a few things to work on.
    
    Our coaching clinic wasn't quite as successful as Beantown's.  We only
    had about 25 players show up, most of them from Clark U.  The clinic
    Rachael was thinking of was probably the administrative clinic in
    Amherst.  Since there were already a couple of guys working with the
    forwards by the time I arrived, I took the day off from coaching and
    watched some of the back drills hoping to pick up some stuff to use at
    WPI's practices.
    
    Anyone from Worcester Women show up in Boston Sunday, Rachael?
8.937CAM::WAYPlayin in the UNIX playgroundTue Sep 17 1991 14:0712
Mac, 

You should have had your boys bag their game and come to the Clinic
we gave.  Oh yeah, I'd like to thank Charles River for helping out ;^)

Actually, we've had both UCONN and Central Connecticut State U coming
to watch us.

Great for recruiting, but tough for old guys like me who always fight for
a spot....8^)

'Saw
8.938BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Sep 17 1991 14:4725
Nobody from Worcester.  I was a little disappointed, it would have been really
good for them.  But it's their choice.  I gave their number to the captain of
Merrimack, she's going to call them to see if they want to mix a side this
weekend, I think.  Merrimack is in danger of folding, they've got one player
holding it together and she's interested in playing on a higher level.  I 
hope they make it, but I can't blame her for wanting more.

Congratulations on your 20th Ed.  I assume you guys count a season as a whole
year, not having the split seasons like we do?   I consider myself to play
2x season for each x years.  I remember being really excited when the number
of years was finally large enough so I could just say that instead of how
many seasons I've played.  Next milestone will be when I've played enough
years so I don't include the half, like right now I've played 6 anda half
years, this Fall will make seven.  Maybe at about 8 or 10 years I'll drop
the halves.  Have fun at lock, it'll be a nice rest after doing most of the
work on the field for so many years!  :^)  (so there, from the only true
sissy in the bunch...)

Tonight will be another tough practice, hopefully we will start putting
together some more of our game skills as we have a league match Saturday.
What with the five hours of sleep I got last night, I should have a stellar
practice...  I'll bring my dog so she can drive me home, it's about an hour
each way.

Rachael
8.939CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeWed Sep 18 1991 19:3233
Well,  I have some unhappy news to relate.

Last Thursday night at practice (which I had to miss because of the trip
to ZKO) Tom Vinick gave a very emotional speech to the Wanderers. Following
the speech, he gave, to the club, his Eagles jersey, which he had worn
in the 1987 World Cup.

It seems that Tom has been awarded a full scholarship to Life Chiropractic
in Atlanta.  Life gives out rugby scholarhips, and apparently Tom will
be a player/coach with them.  They are one of the best rugby clubs in
the nation, and every year they are contenders for a Final Four slot.

Tom Vinick is one of the best rugby players in the world.  I have never
seen a player who has such a grasp on all the facets of the game.  I have
never seen anyone hit harder than Tom.  In fact, as I write this, I can
hear the voice of an Australian commentator saying "And ooh, there's
another vintage Vinick hit".

Tom Vinick is responsible for one of my most memorable moments on the
pitch.  Losing to New Haven last year in a C side game, Vin, back out
of retirement and just wanting a game, put on a display of rugby that
still blows my mind.  He never acted superior, and he boosted my
comments several times with compliments after a play, and he inspired
the team to come back and win the game 38-10.  To have played on the
same pitch, on the same team, with an Eagle who was in the World Cup
is an experience I will carry to my grave.

I will miss Tom Vinick, and no doubt the Wanderers will miss his
leadership, but we are all better for having had the chance to
play with him.

I wish him luck, and hope that sometime in the next four years Life
will win a National Championship.....
8.940SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Sep 18 1991 19:376
    Wow, that will be quite a loss for Hartford.  So Life's buying
    themselves an Eagle since they lost Lambert ;^).
    
    'Saw, if you're cruising around up north on a rugby training night
    again let me know.  I'll gladly supply you with directions to the WRFC
    training so you won't miss out.
8.941SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Sep 18 1991 19:402
    'Saw, you mentioned that Vinick was going to be a player/coach for
    Life.  Is Titus leaving?
8.942Guess there's no shortage of lab specimensSHALOT::HUNTRumblin', bumblin', stumblin' ...Wed Sep 18 1991 19:594
 Why is it somehow fitting that a school for chiropractors would have
 rugby scholarships ???
 
 Bob Hunt
8.943CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeWed Sep 18 1991 20:0310
I don't know about Titus...  I heard player/coach, I don't know how true
it is....

Yeah, it is quite a loss for Hartford.  Vin was a great and inspirational
leader.

I'll take you up on that practice deal next time I'm up that way....8^)


'Saw
8.944IAMOK::WASKOMWed Sep 18 1991 21:5017
    I wondered why Vinick's jersey was pinned up in the bar.  Now I know. 
    It looks great, sleeves cut out and up over the cash register.
    
    I spent a lot of Saturday night with Charles River.  There were a
    couple of players who remembered me from when my ex played for them. 
    They have about 12 guys injured at the moment, and Saturday was their
    first game of the season, to Hartford's third (or fourth, if you count
    the tournament before Labor Day).  It was reflected in their play, as
    they did better in the 2nd half of each of the three games than in the
    first.  They came down expecting to get walloped.  As one guy said
    "Hell, with Glen kicking you just *expect* to be playing most of the
    game in your own end".
    
    I must say that I felt Charles River won the drink-up, even if they
    didn't prevail on the field of play :=}
    
    A&W
8.945CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeThu Sep 19 1991 01:2831
>    I wondered why Vinick's jersey was pinned up in the bar.  Now I know. 
>    It looks great, sleeves cut out and up over the cash register.

Yeah, it adds a touch of class to the place, and it'll serve it's purpose.

Vin said something about having worn it 20 times (well, they get a new
one each time, but we knew what he meant).  I don't know if they
were all caps, but I'm sure a lot of them were.

    
>    "Hell, with Glen kicking you just *expect* to be playing most of the
>    game in your own end".

We gained an Eagle and lost one.  Glen is playing with us because he
wasn't selected for the World Cup.  Glen will have his day for our
National Side, but for now, he's still with us.

And we're watching the kid from C side who was drilling those conversions.

    
>    I must say that I felt Charles River won the drink-up, even if they
>    didn't prevail on the field of play :=}

I went home to take a Motrin, so I dunno how River did.  After landing
on my hand I decided to be a weenie and use some of the prescription
I paid for.  The rest I'm saving for when I start playing again.....

I do know that River is our perennial whipping boy ;^)  Well, they did
play our A side tough last year....

'Saw
8.946BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Sep 19 1991 11:2625
	I was really excited about Life offering rugby scholarships until I
found out they only offer them to men.  That made me just a touch less excited,
although I'm not sure that the women in the school could provide a strong 
enough side to make it worth it.  Kind of a circular issue, 'cause if they
offered scholarships, they probably would get a great side.

	They have nice pitches there, I played on them last time I was in 
Atlanta. And it was great  having all the students there providing a medical 
tent.  One of the students noticed my scar from spinal fusion (it goes 
tailbone to neckbone, and I was wearing a "sport top" only as it was hot)
and he was really interested, asked if I would come over to the tent so he
could show  one of his classmates, etc.

	Charles River used to have very strong ties with Boston when I played
for Boston.  Our coaches were guys from CR at that time.  Based on this 
experience, I would have to agree with Alison sight upseen that CR won
the drinkup.

	We have not one, not two, but three games scheduled for this weekend.
Amazing!  Two against Concord and a third, for our rookiest rookies, against
Harvard.  Harvard has a pretty stong side.  For those who  will be in Boston
Saturday, we play on Storrow Drive between the Science Museum and the 
Longfellow Bridge, and the games will go approx. 1 to 6.
  
Rachael
8.947CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeThu Sep 19 1991 12:033
Rach --

I got the willies just hearin' about that scar...phew!
8.948Must be alot bad backs out there ...RHETT::KNORRCarolina BlueThu Sep 19 1991 13:5919
    For some reason or other, Life Chiropractic College seems to popping up
    more and more in my consciousness.  I went there a few months ago for 
    the NBA's 'Southern Rookie Review' and was downright stunned that such 
    a nice campus existed in absolute obscurity.  This place is stuck right 
    in the middle of a very built-up Marietta, GA and I'd never known it 
    existed!
    
    Then suddenly they started doing commericals (lots of 'em) during
    Braves telecasts.  The president of the school has the 100% look of a
    crooked televangelist.  Slicked back hair, southern drawl, ... the
    whole works.  
    
    The combination of a very impressive campus (lots of new buildings),
    hosting an NBA rookie camp, commericals during Braves games (which
    can't be too cheap these days), and now rugby scholarships convinces me
    that *somebody* is pumping some big-time bucks into Life.
    
    
    - ACC Chris
8.949SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 19 1991 14:2122
    Rugby scholarships from Life have been around for quite a while, Chris. 
    It's just that apparently you hadn't heard of them before.
    
    Another very good rugby program can be found in another Chiropractic
    College - Parmer in Illinois.
    
    Life College has been a regular at the Austin Tournament the past few
    years.  Instead of paying the tournament entry fee they set up a tent
    providing free chiropractic services to the other participants.
    
    The relationship between rugby and Chiropractors isn't that unique. 
    With the majority of rugby players coming out of US colleges (and UK
    private schools), there are quite a few professionals from all areas
    that end up playing rugby.  You'll find many lawyers, doctors (MDs as
    well as chiropractors), engineers, teachers, etc. on the rosters of
    rugby clubs around the US.
    
    The chiropractors I've known are very much into sports medicine and
    sports related injuries.  There seems to be more of a joining of these
    two professions and that might explain some of the interest in rugby. 
    Not that rugby players are more susceptible to injury, but rugby is a
    sport that can be played long after college is completed.
8.950CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeThu Sep 19 1991 14:4914
JD Call, the subject of this month's Rugby Calendar photo is a doctor.

Gary Lambert, arguably the greatest Eagle ever came from Life.


I'm really happy for Vin, because the way I see it, his chances for
a National Championship increased exponentially by this move.
It seems that every year Washington and Life fight it out for the
Eastern slot in the final four.

Chris, if you ever get a chance to see them play when Vin is playing
with them, check it out.  He's one of the best you'll ever see....

'Saw
8.951SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 19 1991 14:553
    There's some good rugby being played in Georgia.  In addition to Life,
    the Atlanta Renegades also put up a good fight for a final 4 slot in
    the East most years.
8.952IAMOK::WASKOMThu Sep 19 1991 14:597
    Mac -
    
    Are you sure you don't mean Palmer College of Chiropractic of
    Davenport, IA/Moline & Rock Island, IL fame?  That's where I saw my
    first ever rugby game, many moons ago.....
    
    A&W
8.953Rugby <> ACC ChrisRHETT::KNORRCarolina BlueThu Sep 19 1991 14:5915
    > Chris, if you ever get a chance to see them play ...
    
    Don't take this personally or anything Saw (or Mac or Rachael) but one
    of the last things I'd probably catch myself doing is trudging over to
    Marietta (not a short hike for me) to watch rugby.
    
    This note has intrigued me enough to watch rugby on cable occasionally,
    and all I can say is I find no correlation between all the technical
    details and sophistication you all talk about and the complete and
    total caos that's taking place on the field.
    
    Like I said, don't take it personally ...
    
    
    - ACC Chris
8.954When the chaos get weird enough, that's when I goSHALOT::HUNTRumblin', bumblin', stumblin' ...Thu Sep 19 1991 15:0516
8.955SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 19 1991 15:119
    That's probably the one, A&W.  I was probably confused by my
    chiropractors Texas/Iowa accent ;^).
    
    What games have you been watching on cable, Chris?  
    
    Everyone has their personal preferences.  I, for example, can't see the
    correlation between the technical details and sophistication people
    talk about and guys driving around in circles when I'm flipping through
    the channels and stumble across a NASCAR race ;^).
8.956Yep, definitely chaos the 1st time seenIAMOK::WASKOMThu Sep 19 1991 15:1217
    My personal advice to all new watchers of rugby.
    
    Try to have your *first* game ever be an Old Boys game.  The strategy,
    tactics, and play will be good, with fewer dumb penalties, but action
    will be that little bit slower so you can figure out what's going on. 
    If you're real lucky, try to figure out who is a knowledgable bystander
    and follow them up and down the pitch.  Ask that person what the
    whistle was for.  If you get really bold, ask why the players are doing
    things that don't make sense to you.
    
    Then watch some C-side games.  There, the only penalties whistled up
    are the really outrageous ones.  You'll have a chance to see them for
    yourself.  :-)  There are also likely to be folks on the sidelines
    telling the new kids what they ought to be doing, and you can learn
    some more.
    
    A&W
8.957Typical 'MericanRHETT::KNORRCarolina BlueThu Sep 19 1991 15:558
    > What games have you been watching on cable, Chris?
    
    No idea.  Only thing I cain say is the announcer always has some kinda
    British/Scottish/NewZealand/Australian accent.  (Okay, I admit it.  I
    can't tell the difference ...)
    
    
    - ACC Chris
8.958BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Sep 19 1991 16:0916
	Beantown has (seriously) it's own chiropractor.  She's really good,
and is, as noted before, very interested in sports medicine.  She treats
atheletes from many different sports.  (Or so it seems as I scoped, I mean
saw the other women waiting in her office)  Our chiropractor goes to Nationals
every year with us, this year our captain thanked her among other in her
speech as she recieved the cup.  Personally, I think it's pretty funny but
she (Dr. Karg) sure is important to the team.

	Chris, I'm not offended, I thought your observation was really funny.

	Rugby is a tough game to learn, that contributes to its limited
popularity here in the US.  I think the best way to learn is to just go
out and play, no amount of practices will ever make you ready for the first
game.  

Rachael
8.959CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeThu Sep 19 1991 16:5431
One thing that blows people away about rugby is it's simplicity.

In rugby there is very little specialization.  There are forwards and
backs, but with the exceptions of props, the forward positions are pretty
interchangible so are the back positions.  (ie a 2nd row can play flanker
or 8man and vice verse).

Backs are usually the best kickers, but forwards are certainly capable.

The object of the game is simple.  Maintain ball possession until you
get the ball into the try zone, touch it down, and score.

Rucks and mauls are variations on a theme:  They occur when the
ball carrier is stopped.  In that case, the attacking forwards cluster
around, one man "stripping" the ball, the others keeping the opposition
away from the ball.  The ball gets passed to the scrum half (the QB sort
of, and the "liason" between forwards and backs) and the next rush 
begins.  The ruck is really a special case where the ball is already
on the ground...

Passing is like laterals in football, and the ball CANNOT be knocked forward
off chest, arms or hands.  Thus, on a wet rainy day if I drop a kick
and it goes the slightest bit forward, it's a knock-on and play is
restarted with a scrum.


That's pretty much the entire outline of the game.  Much as in football,
where the team who owns the line of scrimmage tends to win, in rugby,
the team who rucks and scrums  best tends to win....

'Saw
8.961TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey is a toddler now!Thu Sep 19 1991 17:5313
Rachael

Margaret Karg is the partner of my regular chiropractor, and she has 
straightened me out on many occasions.  She and John Danchick (her partner)
treat many athletes.  I've seen Dave Cowens (former Cetlics) in the office, and
John has told me of treating Bill Rogers, Alberto Salazar (both runners), 
Marty Barett (baseball), and others I can't think of right now.  

Both Karg and Danchick have run the Boston Marathon, and have served as heads of
the physical therapy sections of the medical units.  Danchick also pitched 
briefly for the Red Sox.

=Bob=
8.962CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeThu Sep 19 1991 18:4214
Hawk --

It's not that bad.  Cuts get stitched and heal up, broken bones will mend.

There is NOTHING in the world like a good, hard, ruck when you totally
clean the other team off the ball.  There's also nothing in the world
like driving your elbow into the ribs of the opposing jumper when you're
"propping" your guy in a lineout.  

And above all, there is nothing so invigorating, nothing so hellfire
exciting, nothing so rewarding as a walk-over try.  For a forward, especially
a front row forward, that is the epitome of the game....

'Saw
8.963GENRAL::WADEThu Sep 19 1991 20:096
    
    'Saw,
    
    	Oh yes there is!  ;^)
    
    Claybone
8.964;-))RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOGail and Leadville,A Miniseries!Thu Sep 19 1991 20:3215
    Hawk -
    
    There ya go, swelling these rugbee players haids again.   Rugby?  It's
    a sport played at prep schools and Ivy League schools, by guys with
    names like Biff and Dondo - who get to wear striped shirts and act 
    tuff.  It always reminded me of childhood games like "Red Rover",
    "keepaway" and "Kill the Guy With the Ball".
    
    Heck, everytime I watch on TV, some burly looking Aussies or Kiwis are
    terrorizing some Japanese, Taiwanese, or other Asian country.
    
    Mac and Saw, or course, are exceptions to the rule.  Even though Mac
    did go to an Ivy clone - WPI.
    
    JD
8.965WPI != IVY CLONEJURAN::MCKAYThu Sep 19 1991 21:274
    JD - how did WPI enter the ivy clone category???  Not to my 
    impaired recollection. 8*)
    
    Jimbo
8.966BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 20 1991 11:4511
8.967CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeFri Sep 20 1991 11:5311
>??!!??
>
>I disagree with that in almost every instance you gave.  But hey, whatever
>works for you.

It is simple.  Compared to American Football, the game is pretty simple
and the players are not specialized...

That's all I meant....

It is however, a hard game to play well.....
8.968New Zealand shirt?GEMVAX::HILLFri Sep 20 1991 11:557
    I have a friend who is looking for a New Zealand All-Black Rugby shirt.
    Do any of you ruggers out there know where he could pick one up? I'm in
    the greater Boston area, but anyplace woud be good via mail....
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tom
8.969CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeFri Sep 20 1991 12:0610
Tom --

Matt Godek sells replica international jersies.  In fact, I have an All-Blacks
jersey myself.

I'll bring in the 1-800 number on Monday, or post it over the weekend....

It will run about $45.....

'Saw
8.970Fanx!GEMVAX::HILLFri Sep 20 1991 12:293
    Thanks 'Saw! I knew you could point me in the right direction
    
    Tom
8.971SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 20 1991 14:027
8.972CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeFri Sep 20 1991 14:055
>    The first side loosehead prop for Austin was 42 when I first started



Guess every side has a "Doc".....
8.973BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 20 1991 14:1623
	Call 1-800-555-1212 and ask for the number to Matt Godeck's Soccer
and Rugby Supply.  Rugby Imports also carries international jersey's, but
the one I got (I returned it) was not the same quality as the game jerseys.
It was really thin, and American jerseys are already a little thin.  (Except
for Land's End, they just cost $10 more per)

	Saw, maybe we're looking at this from top and bottom, sort of.
I can see how you think the game of rugby is simpler because it's not
so specialized as football, but that means every player has to be more
aware of the game as a whole, rather than just his or her particular piece.
That's why I think it's complex.  I always thought football was kind of
simplistic because each player only had to think of one little piece of
the game.  The more "special teams" you have, the simpler it gets since
each player has to consider less and less variable in decision making.
We have varying strategies as to how we will attack from center field, or
offset, in every 25 meters.  And given those general strategies, there
are variations, and then there's lineouts. etc.  Maybe it's also 'cause
I'm a flanker, where knowing where the play goes and at what angle is so
important to my effectiveness.  Being there is not enough, I have to be
there steep and at speed.  There's an incredible amount of split second
decision making involved.

Rachael
8.974WRFC Home Opener 9/21SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 20 1991 14:1824
    Rachael, I agree with 'Saw on the simplicity of the game.  That is
    something I really try to get across to the guys I'm coaching.  In
    rugby you just need to keep possession of the ball, run straight, pass
    backwards, and stay behind the ball.  But, as is the case with many
    simple games, it can take awhile to master.
    
    Tom, here are some phone numbers for rugby supply houses.  They all
    take MasterCard and Visa and are pretty prompt about shipping stuff
    out.  
    
    Matt Godek Rugby & Soccer Supply
    Merrifield, VA
    1-800-336-3446
    
    Rugby Imports
    East Providence, RI
    1-800-431-4514
    
    The WRFC kicks off it's home schedule with a game against Burlington
    (VT) RFC tomorrow at 1 pm at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  From the rumors flying around the NERFU, Burlington is
    the darkhorse to win the Maxwell division.  The have recently joined
    the Union, having in the past electing to play teams in a Canadian
    Union.  I'll again be playing lock for Worcester's B-side.
8.975CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeFri Sep 20 1991 14:5216
Rach --

You and I *are* approaching from different angles.  The concept of the
game is elegant in it's simplicity.  The "savvy" needed from the players
is very complex.

That better?


Mac, tough break.  Maybe you should walk around all hunched down so they
think you're shorter.

and Hartford could still use a good prop!

later,
fw
8.976BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 20 1991 16:0613
Beautiful wording, Saw.

In the rugby is like life saga, rugby (regards to what we're talking about)
reminds me of ASIC design.  Boolean logic is simple, timing is simple, but
take the two together en mass and well...

I don't know what I'm playing this weekend.  Definately B-side, (I'm assuming
I'm not put in the rookie game only, but only A-side selections were announced)
probably flanker or 8.  

Good luck, Mac.  I'm really psyched for our season opener.

Rachael
8.977CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeSun Sep 22 1991 00:2556
Well, Hartford travelled to New Haven earlier today.  All in all it was a VERY
good day for Hartford and the 'Saw in particular.

Our A side started out by merely winning 65-3.  New Haven played
a decent game, they just couldn't score.  Their lone 3 points came from
a drop goal.

Hartford played Hartford rugby.  Consolidating in the loose, murderous
in the scrums.  


B side played really well also.  New Haven finally scored a try in the B
side game but I don't know what the final score was.

And then it was time for C side to play.  They were short a couple of
guys, and I could feel the urge stirring, and it was just too much.
Borrowing a kit, and finding boots to fit, I grabbed a roll of tape
and had Doc tape me up.

I told the guys that I would get the job done in the scrums and lineouts,
anything else was gravy.  They were all pleased.

I played like a madman.  I figured if I was cautious I'd bust myself
up again, so I played like I was possessed.

I made the first tackle of the game, and it was a good one.  Later on
I copped one of their lineout balls, and about halfway into the first
half, I came close to taking my first minute.

New Haven had a penalty and they decided to crash. (We'd have gone for the
up and under).  Well, they gave the ball to their tighthead, and I came
out to meet him.  Took him low and it was like trying to stop a Mack truck.
I got him down, but he must've kneed my shoulder in the process.

So, I'm laying on the ground, not feeling a thing in my arm.  Tried to get
up a couple of times and no luck.  I thought I'd take a minute, but decided
to get up one last time.  That time I made it,  and caught up to the lineout.


Scrumming was good.  Played tighthead against a fairly new guy.  He was
strong, and got low, but in the second scrum I realized I was able to twist
him.  Twisting a loosehead is against the rules, but I wasn't binding wrong
to do it.  I figured I'd keep it up until I got called.  Never got called
so I did it all afternoon!  Couple of times his head was all but on the
ground....

We ultimately lost 9-6.  It was a close game, and was almost won it
but a handling the ball on the ground penalty did us in.

I'm wicked tired now, but I'd been dying to hit something all week, and
I'm glad I did.

I also played a good game, which took care of a few nagging self-doubts
I had lately.....

'Saw
8.978CanterburyEDUOZ::THURGARSun Sep 22 1991 23:1010
    Re: .968
    
    Both the Australian and New Zealand jersys and made by a group called
    Canterbury. Very good quality.
    
    They have an outlet in Sydney - if you require one. Give me a yell
    Don't know the cost. But I can find it out.
    
    
    Madge
8.979BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Sep 23 1991 11:1139
	Yell.  I'd like a jersey, can you let me know how much they cost,
and what the shipping charge (approx?) would be?
	Congratulations, Saw.  I was thinking  about you this weekend, knowing
you couldn't play, but I guess I needn't have worried.
	We played Concord, NH,for a league match, then again for a B-game,
then Radcliffe for a C-game.
	Not too much to say on the A-game.  We were, without much effort,
beating them 56-0 at the half.  They had a lot of brand new players, eg
whenever one of them went down for a minute, four of them would stand over
her before the whistle went.  They just didn't know any better, but they
played with heart and never gave up.  We cut the second half to 20 minutes
out of respect for their team.
	They came out again with the same 15 to play us in the B-game.  I'm
not sure of the score on that game, we beat them again, and again they
played, if not with experience, with a great attitude.  I played flanker
in that game and was somewhat frustrated.  I didn't feel my support so I
tended to hold the ball up instead of rucking, which is a bad, bad habit
and not our style of play.  Usually, almost all of the time when I go in
with the ball Beantown comes out with it, but not so much that game.  Yuck.
	I touched the ball down on a 5 metre scrum, but it wasn't called right
away and I was concerned I had lost track of the lines, so I picked it up
again and set a ruck, and somebody else took it and touched it down in plain
view of the ref.  Our players reffed all three games, as our union ref
ran into some difficulties.  I think they did a decent job, and we're always
grateful to whoever will do it when necessary.
	Our third match was mostly our rookies, who had never played before,
and a few fill-ins, one of them being me at 8.  I had a much better time in
that game, it seemed a lot sharper and better controlled.  It was a riot playing
#8 because our two new seconds are really tall, and it was hard for me to get
my legs out past theirs.  I set much better ball in this game, was very mobile,
and scored twice, both times were technically challenging.  

Rachael

PS  Our selectors made a point of saying they had mixed up selections to
try new things, so I didn't feel as bad not making the A-game.  Plus, the
most fun I had was playing the C-game, I work really well with the 
scrum-half there (she also wasn't a rookie, I think we were it for non-rookies)
when I'm at #8 and it's a joy to play with her.
8.980CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeMon Sep 23 1991 12:1621
>	Congratulations, Saw.  I was thinking  about you this weekend, knowing
>you couldn't play, but I guess I needn't have worried.

Thanks.

I just got so tired of hanging around.  Plus, a couple of new props came
out for practice this past week, and I figured that I'd better get back
in there.  

I hope my "stock" went up just a little....

I proved some stuff to myself.  This morning I'm sore (I'm a two-day
person -- not sore the day after, but TWO DAYS after.....)
and the only thing that doesn't hurt is my hand.  I had no chance to
warm up before the game, so I had to go in cold....

Next week can only get better!

Congrats on your win.....

'Saw
8.981Worcester vs Burlington - As lose, Bs winSMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 23 1991 12:5357
    Worcester RFC hosted Burlington (VT) RFC this weekend.  It was a great
    day for rugby -- cool temperatures, somewhat breezy, and bright and
    sunny.  The first game was an exciting one.  The match flowed back and
    forth with both teams having difficulty penetrating the opposition's 22
    meter line.  Worcester got on the board first with a penalty kick and
    an unconverted try.  Burlington picked up some momentum as a result of
    3 or 4 successive stupid penalities on the part of Worcester and took
    an 11-7 lead into halftime.  More back and forth play in the second
    half with Burlington adding a try to up the lead to 15-7.  Late in the
    game, a beatiful offensive movement set up a try between the posts and
    brought the home team to within 2 points.  With only a few minutes
    remaining, Burlington kicked the ball into Worcester's tryzone on the
    kickoff.  The Worcester wing thought he touched the ball down to get
    the 22-dropout, but the ref didn't see it that way (and in defense of
    the ref, our wing didn't make it obvious).  After diddling around with
    the ball he eventually had to come back into the try zone to down it
    resulting in a 5 meter scrum.  Worcester held and the ball was forced
    into touch.  Burlington scored on the ensuing lineout to seal the game. 
    There was only enough time left for Worcester to kickoff again.  Final
    score, Burlington 21, Worcester 13.
    
    The B match featured a Burlington team made up of some fresh players,
    some A side players, and a couple of Worcester players who thought they
    could get a game without coming to practice.  Burlington agreed to 35
    minute halves.  Worcester was giving up a bit in the size department,
    but had several players on the squad who have seen/will see playing
    time on the A side.  I was at lock for this game.  Scrummaging was
    about even which is about what we had expected.  We thought we'd be
    giving up alot in the lineouts since jumping ability isn't the greatest
    for either me or the other lock.  We were respectable, however.  The
    big difference was in the loose play.  We completely outrucked them the
    whole game, something Burlington freely admitted after the match.
    
    Burlington kicked off to start the game.  Our other lock caught the
    ball and run upfield.  I was right there in support and went in for the
    strip.  I ended up knocking us both over sending Burlington into
    hysterics and getting us called for killing the ball.  Burlington
    jumped out to a 3-0 lead on the penalty kick.  We came back and were
    able to knot the score at 3-3 with a penalty kick of our own shortly
    afterwards.  We scored a converted try shortly before the half to take
    a 9-3 lead into halftime.  Burlington then requested that the second
    half be shortened to 25 minutes.  Burlington scored a penalty to close
    within 3 points.  Worcester finally punched one in after several
    scrums, rucks, and mauls close in to the Burlington goal.  The try came
    on a scrum with the weakside flanker picking the ball up from channel 1
    and squirting past the Burlington scrumhalf to touch it down. 
    Worcester 13 Burlington 6.  Burlington was able to score once more on
    some nice ballhandling, sucked in some of Worcester's backs, and eluded
    a couple of tackles to pull within 3 again.  Worcester held on to win
    13-10.
    
    Worcester's B side scrumhalf is a bit green, but he's one tough kid. 
    He doesn't have much of an out, but he's not afraid to take the ball
    straight up the field if he feels he can't get the pass off.  This was
    probably the reason for the close score, as the backs weren't getting
    the good ball the forwards were providing, for even Burlington remarked
    that they were outplayed for the majority of the match.
8.982Last friendlyEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredTue Sep 24 1991 08:4229
8.983CAM::WAYForeverWare: Lasts a lifetimeTue Sep 24 1991 10:2040
>    full game in the second row and thoroughly enjoyed it. I also
>    discovered that playing second row requires solid ear protection!

Get some black tape or an earwig, otherwise you'll have a good set
of cauliflower ears after two or three games.

Also, some vaseline on the sides of your head and by your ears will
prevent scrum burn.

    
>    Comparing second and back row play, I can only conclude that the effort
>    is not quite the same. Lock forwards work harder in the static phases,
>    they push harder, they pull harder, and they are more involved in close
>    combat. But there is a definite difference in the pace at which the
>    game happens in the second and back rows. While I had more aches and
>    pains all over when I woke up on Monday morning, I was definitely less
>    tired immediately after the match. A full match as flanker always left
>    me totally drained and fit for bed. That was not the case in the second
>    row. Maybe I'm doing something wrong!!

I've never played flanker (hey, I'm a prop) but my take on this would
be that if you're a second row who can get around like a flanker then
you'll be more of an asset to your team.  Try for that combination
of tired AND sore.
    
>    Roll on next Sunday 3.30. Spare a thought for me. Looks like I'll be
>    stuck in the second row all season as we have about a dozen flankers
>    already!

It's a privilege to play in the tight five...don't forget it 8^)

Seriously, the game can be just as enjoyable in there as other places.
Look for the things you do well as a 2nd row and do them.  
Everybody wants to be a flanker, but somebody has to be the "engine room"
of the scrum.....

Good luck 8^)

'Saw

8.984Ear, earEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredTue Sep 24 1991 10:289
    
    
    Talking of ear protection, whatever happen to the good old leather
    scrumcaps that forwards used to wear in days of yore? They seem to have
    completely disappeared, probably for aesthetic reasons...
    Does anyone in the States still use them? Any idea where I can find
    one?
    
    Ed.
8.985BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Sep 24 1991 10:548
Ed, 
	I think scrumcaps are available here, from the mail order places.
Let me know if you want me to check into that.  Most seconds lately have
been wearing earwigs and/or tape, though.
	A dozen flankers sounds awfully familiar, and I'm too little to play
second row.  It does get me some B games at #8, though, and I love to play #8.

Rachael
8.986BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Sep 24 1991 10:552
PS also check Japan for scrumcaps, apparently the entire side (women's) wore
them at World Cup in Cardiff.
8.987CAM::WAYGot on 'shine for my shakin'Tue Sep 24 1991 10:566
We have one second row who wears a scrum cap.

The biggest complaint I've heard about them is that there's so much
"extra" for someone to grab onto....

'Saw
8.988Mac on ear protectionSMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Sep 24 1991 16:0513
    Ed, as Rachael and 'Saw have said, scrumcaps are available in the US
    at the rugby supply houses (I posted phone numbers for a couple of them
    a few replies back).  I can second what 'Saw said about their use as a
    handle in the rucks and mauls.  It also was frustrating to have to
    replace a $20 scrumcap because a $0.02 tie string broke.  Electrical
    tape is probably the best for staying power during a match.  I could
    never be bothered with putting it on and taking it off, though.  I use
    an earwig and petroleum jelly.  The earwig does tend to come off during
    a match, but it is fairly easy to put it back on.  It's great for props
    who want a little ear protection in the rucks and mauls but don't
    require a real tight fit that a lock needs in the scrum.  I use my
    earwig at lock and have opted to take the convience of it over the
    staying power of electrical tape.
8.989BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Sep 24 1991 16:181
Let's not forget that a front row in earwwigs can be pretty intimidating!!!
8.990CAM::WAYGot no 'shine for my shakin'Tue Sep 24 1991 16:3315
I haven't felt the need to wear any ear protection yet at front row.
Guess I've been lucky so far.

Scrum burn is a pain.  Locks tend to get it on their cheeks and beside
their eyes.  Props get it on their shoulders and the backs of their
necks.  I've got some on my shoulder right now that's been driving me
batty!

Scrum ear is another condition that locks are prey to.  It's basically
scrum burn on your ear, but it's really bad and bleeds.


Other than that, it's a wicked fun game!

'Saw
8.991Just because it made me feel good....CAM::WAYGot no potion for the painWed Sep 25 1991 01:0013

		E ringa pakia waewae tahahia
		E kine nei haki
		E ring e ringa e torona kei waho montonu

		Kamate!  Kamate!
		Kaora kaora
		Tenei te tangata puhuruhuru
		Kana e tiki rai whaka whiti te ra
		A hupane!  A hupane!
		Hupane kopane whiti te ra!
		
8.992Ah eee tooki tooki!CUBIC7::DIGGINSThirst N'Howl Roolz!Wed Sep 25 1991 10:497
'Saw, could you send some of those shrooms my way! 8^)




Steve
8.993CAM::WAYKamate Kamate Kaora KaoraWed Sep 25 1991 11:014
>'Saw, could you send some of those shrooms my way! 8^)

shrooms won't do it for ya.  You gotta know somethin' 'bout rugby
to know what that it....
8.994Well, which one is it?RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOGail and Leadville,A Miniseries!Wed Sep 25 1991 13:0412
    Saw:
    
    Let me guess, that's either:
    
    1)  RCASO singing the Notre Dame Fight SOng
    
    2)  Dinz typing "Jingle Bells"
    
    3)  Moses Malone's ANswering Machine
    
    
    JD
8.995CELTIK::JACOBMe&amp;MySolarPanelInColoradoSpringsWed Sep 25 1991 13:2811
    Gotta know something about rugby, eh???
    
    And here I was thinking those were the words to "Pineapple Princess" in
    Swahili!!
    
    Oh well, learn something dumb...er...I mean New every day.
    
    AMF
    
    JaKe
    
8.996CAM::WAYKamate Kamate Kaora KaoraWed Sep 25 1991 13:375
Well, since so many people don't know, maybe all the ruggers in the 
audience should keep silent, and we'll keep entertaining all the guesses
until someone gets it right....

What do you think ruggers?
8.997GENRAL::WADEWed Sep 25 1991 13:414
    
    	Isn't that "Stairway to Heaven" backwards? :^)
    
    	Claybone
8.998RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOGail and Leadville,A Miniseries!Wed Sep 25 1991 14:034
    Must be some stupid rugby drinking song or something.  It smacks of
    'prep' school hijinks.
    
    JD
8.1000HPSRAD::RIEURead his lips...Know new taxes!Wed Sep 25 1991 14:101
       I'll take it!
8.1001CAM::WAYKamate Kamate Kaora KaoraWed Sep 25 1991 14:264
>    Must be some stupid rugby drinking song or something.  It smacks of
>    'prep' school hijinks.
    
Nope.  It's older than the oldest prep school.....
8.1002Gotta beSHALOT::HUNTJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Sep 25 1991 14:314
 Nah, it's what ruggers say to each other as their lasted teefs is
 knocked outta their empty gums.
 
 Bob Hunt
8.1003CAM::WAYKamate Kamate Kaora KaoraWed Sep 25 1991 14:408
Nope.

I'll start giving hints if you want....

It's a strong part of rugby tradition, and every rugger who's been in the
game even a little while knows what it is, if not how to perform it...

'Saw
8.1004AXIS::ROBICHAUDForAGoodTimeCall 1-800-8-RAHRAHWed Sep 25 1991 15:116
    	I don't know about rugby, but that sounds a lot like what Midnight
    was babbling as he wandered through the cafeteria Monday morning
    with a blank stare and his slightly torn Houston Oilers pennant
    hanging by his side.
    
    				/Don
8.1005We wants to noCELTIK::JACOBMe&amp;MySolarPanelInColoradoSpringsWed Sep 25 1991 15:128
    Is this what a rugger screams as he kicks an opponent in the
    "vitals"?????
    
    
    AMF
    
    JaKe
    
8.1006WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardWed Sep 25 1991 15:245
    I think 'Saw was just quoting the DD calling a squaredance!
    
    8^)
    
    Conan
8.1007usually takes me a case b4 i speak in tonguesCTHQ3::LEARYWed Sep 25 1991 15:407
    Nah,
    It's a New Zealand All Black's ritual song performed by the team
    capitain jest before he performs frontal lobotomy surgery on his
    teammates. A prerequisite for all leather-balled ruggers. 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
8.1008The HakaCAM::WAYKamate Kamate Kaora KaoraWed Sep 25 1991 15:5221
Good one Mike!

Gee, I thought it would take longer.


It's called The Haka, and is performed by the entire New Zealand All-Blacks
side, at midfield prior to the start of the game.  It is an ancient
Maori war chant.

The All Blacks don't perform it at home, but before test matches in 
other parts of the world, they do.  Several of our players learned it
on their 1989 NZ tour.

It's pretty exciting to see 15 of the best ruggers in the world performing
a war chant....


Mike, I'll have to try and send ya something for gettin the guess right...


'Saw
8.1009 Or used electrical tapeCTHQ3::LEARYWed Sep 25 1991 16:0413
    'Saw,
    How's about one of them rugby -type ear-muffs, or whatever you call em.
    They kinda go with my cat-o-nine tails and trapeze and,... ah, I'll
    stop seein' that we has made great progress into becoming a "G"
    rated conference. 8^)
    
    BTW,
    I saw a show on international rugby a couple of years ago, and a
    small piece was done on the All Blacks. They mentioned the chant.
    Just lucky.
    
    MikeL
    
8.1010CAM::WAYKamate Kamate Kaora KaoraWed Sep 25 1991 16:1812
hahahahahahaha!

The All Blacks have probably been THE dominant team in rugby of late.
Up until last summer they had been undefeated in international test
matches for like 5 years.

From what I've heard, instead of having basketball backboards in their
back yards, they have rugby goal posts and the kids practice kicking.
It is their national sport.....

'Saw    

8.1011CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussWed Sep 25 1991 21:1114
I got fingers!  

I've got fingers!!!!



I saw the Doc this afternoon, and while he hasn't cleared me to play,
he did say all the tape can come off.  I've got a nice lump where my
break is, and I can't fully extend my little finger (looks like an
old jam injury) but hey, I'm ready to play.

Just fine me some tape.....

'Saw
8.1012VAXWRK::NEEDLEMoney talks. Mine says &quot;Good-Bye!&quot;Thu Sep 26 1991 03:046
>>Just fine me some tape.....

OK, 'Saw, I hereby fine you 3 rolls of duct tape and one roll of electrical
tape.

j.
8.1013The ChakaEDUOZ::THURGARThu Sep 26 1991 03:1129
    The Haka is a war chant done by all New Zealand national sides before
    sporting events. It is performed at home (I saw NZ play the Argentine
    in the 1987 World Cup). It is very awe inspiring to watch and
    inspirational. The French in the 1987 World Cup final tried to stare
    down the Haka. The current Wallabies adopt the same attitude and stand
    about 6 feet away and stare at them - saying that we are not
    intimidated. Watch the World Cup, the more hyped the All Blacks are,
    the louder the haka and the stronger the movements. They become almost
    trance like.
    
    I wouldn't be doing the Haka unless I am in a New Zealand side. They
    treat it with great respect and may not appreciate others copying it.
    
    Being an Australian who has played 13 years of Rugby and watched it for
    about 20 years ( and knowing a few of the Wallabies), a few observations.
    New Zealand has been the dominant
    team over the last 15 years, but they are on the decline, they have
    been beaten a few times in the last 5 years, but have not lost a
    series.
    
    The whole country is fanatical about Rugby, especially the Maoris. But
    not as fanatical as South Africa.
    
    There will be many late nights in the next few weeks, with the World
    Cup and the World Series. At present Australian TV is a sports lovers
    haven. Rugby, baseball, cricket, basketball. Know if I can only find
    time to go to work.
    
    Madge
8.1014CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussThu Sep 26 1991 11:3114
>OK, 'Saw, I hereby fine you 3 rolls of duct tape and one roll of electrical
>tape.

Do me Jeff ;^)

Look where the "e" and "d" are, and then realize that I just got that finger
back yesterday....

So, fine me all ya want 8^)

I still owe the team $50 for breaking a bone NOT playing rugby.....


'Saw
8.1015CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussThu Sep 26 1991 11:3335
>    The Haka is a war chant done by all New Zealand national sides before
>    sporting events. It is performed at home (I saw NZ play the Argentine
>    in the 1987 World Cup). It is very awe inspiring to watch and
>    inspirational. The French in the 1987 World Cup final tried to stare
>    down the Haka. The current Wallabies adopt the same attitude and stand
>    about 6 feet away and stare at them - saying that we are not
>    intimidated. Watch the World Cup, the more hyped the All Blacks are,
>    the louder the haka and the stronger the movements. They become almost
>    trance like.

It is intense.  I've got part of it on the end of my 1987 WC highlights
tape.  They are doing it in the locker room, obviously after their
victory over the French, in shirts and ties...
    
>    I wouldn't be doing the Haka unless I am in a New Zealand side. They
>    treat it with great respect and may not appreciate others copying it.

I believe our guys were taught it by ruggers they stayed with in New
Zealand.  They don't do it before a game or anything, just pass it on
as part of the wonderful lore that surrounds rugby...

    
>    Being an Australian who has played 13 years of Rugby and watched it for
>    about 20 years ( and knowing a few of the Wallabies), a few observations.
>    New Zealand has been the dominant
>    team over the last 15 years, but they are on the decline, they have
>    been beaten a few times in the last 5 years, but have not lost a
>    series.

Yeah, I've got that feeling too.  In fact, I wouldn't bet against
England in this upcoming WC....
    

'Saw
8.1016CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussThu Sep 26 1991 13:1720
From a humorous little section of the WRFC newsletter.

Reprinted w/o permission:


		The Props:  (nos 1 and 3):

			Props are the hairy ones you see getting
			up last from a collapsed scrum yet first
			into the club bar.

			They happily grunt away the afternoon
			in the darkness of the scrummage, hoping
			to provide ball for the backs, all of
			whom they consider to be fairies anyway.


8^)

'Saw
8.1017IAMOK::WASKOMThu Sep 26 1991 14:226
    OK, so does anyone know if we here in the States will get any rugby
    world cup coverage, on any channel, at any odd hour of the late
    night/early  morning?  Or are we doomed to getting all our info via
    notes?  :-(
    
    A&W
8.1018No US TV coveraged announced yetCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 26 1991 14:332
    A&W, I haven't heard anything yet.  One of our players even contacted
    "Rugby" a couple of weeks ago and they hadn't heard anything yet.
8.1019VideosEDUOZ::THURGARThu Sep 26 1991 22:5825
    Only a week to go before the first game of the World Cup. Australian
    practice has been interrupted by drug testing. Everybody is complaining
    about the brand of footballs. They are hard to kick (they float a lot)
    are hard to handle (slippery) and go out of shape. I would hate to see
    good rugby spoiled by the use of this 'pill'.
    The first game is England V All Blacks, which should be tremendous.
    This may knock one of the more favoured teams campaigns on the head
    very early. Nick Farr Jones (the Aussie captain) said that he thought
    England had a good chance, if they were not intimidated by the All
    Blacks.
    
    The other big game will be the expected semi-final. Australia V All
    Blacks. Who did the seedings for this World Cup. Wales seeded #3.
    Zimbabwe could beat Wales.
    
    Do you have access to a PAL VHS system ?. If so I can record the games
    and air freight them over ASAP. We have in Educational Services a 3
    way VHS player. I could try to convert the tapes (but it could take
    longer). So tell me if you aint getting no coverage and we will try to
    amend this oversite of American TV stupidity.
    
    Getting neervous just thinking about it. Come on you WALLABIES.
    
    
    Madge
8.1020CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 00:4621
Well, on more Mundane level, I had my first practice tonight since
busting my hand.

Got all taped and padded up, and overall had a good practice.  Am
getting around MUCH better, and got a tighthead selection.

The main problem is my lock.  This guy is this old prop who's even
more outta shape than I am, and he just ain't giving me a good push.
The flanker is a new flanker too.  I just hope I don't wind up going
against a good loosehead.....

Oh well, feels good to be running with the pack again....




By the way, Madge, I'd be interested in an All-Blacks jersey if you
could find out the price for me...

latah,
'Saw
8.1021Dead meat - illegal exportEDUOZ::THURGARFri Sep 27 1991 04:0214
    I could get shot supplying All Black jerseys. How come nobody wants a
    Wallabie jersey (ok - it is an awful gold colour). There is a special
    edition (200 only) World cup jersey for sale. Cost approx $180US.
    
    Saw and Rachael - I will need to know what sizes you are for jerseys
    (there is a cost difference S,M,L,XL etc). Do you live near each other,
    or see each other, therefore I may be able to reduce the mailing cost
    by only sending one package. I am teaching next week, but will get the
    cost ASAP.
    
    Q: Will anybody referee have the guts to send somebody off in the World
    Cup ?.
    
    Madge
8.1022CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 10:1932
>    I could get shot supplying All Black jerseys. How come nobody wants a
>    Wallabie jersey (ok - it is an awful gold colour). There is a special
>    edition (200 only) World cup jersey for sale. Cost approx $180US.

One of the former Eagles on our squad used to wear the Australia jersey
that he traded for in the WC in 1987.  That awful gold color looks
better once it fades out a bit 8^)

Wow, $180!  That's steep for a jersey.

    
>    Saw and Rachael - I will need to know what sizes you are for jerseys
>    (there is a cost difference S,M,L,XL etc). Do you live near each other,
>    or see each other, therefore I may be able to reduce the mailing cost
>    by only sending one package. I am teaching next week, but will get the
>    cost ASAP.

I'm an XL probably (44-46 our sizes).

Rachael and I have never met, but I'm sure we could work something out.
(Rach, I *promise* I won't bring Hawk with me).....

    
>    Q: Will anybody referee have the guts to send somebody off in the World
>    Cup ?.

Tough question, there Madge.  Doesn't a send-off result in a suspension
for the next game?

'Saw

8.1023CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 10:2950
Well, on the  HWRFC rugby news front, we play Amoskeag this weekend.

The have a lot of former Boston players, and as everyone knows, Boston
is our arch-rival....

Brian Shell is still out with his knee.  He'd been wearing a brace and
rehabilitating it after missing two games, and he played a half last
week.  Some bas___d from New Haven purposely took his knee out.
It might have been really ugly because there were about 5 of us on
the sideline who started out after the guy.

Brian isn't playing this week obviously, but he is back to where he's
able to run the track at practice.


Dennis Harrington, the guy who's been playing with a plate in his arm
had some really unfortunate luck last week.  Denny broke the same
bone, same arm, just above the plate.  Plate held, arm-bone didn't.
Out for the season.  Career ending?  Well, he's still walking and
breathing, so who knows.


The Chainsaw is doing okay with his hand, as long as it's padded a little
and taped.  Don't look for the Saw to carry the ball much however, because
last night in our drive and slip drills, every time I carried the ball,
the defender would knock it out of my hand.  If I'm carrying it at all,
it'll have to been in tight, and I have to hope I can post it neatly
for the rucks.

Learned how to prop last night.  We did some scrummaging against A side,
and playing tighthead, I had to go up against Doc.  This guy is 46
and hard as tempered steel.  He "schooled" me last night, because he
was playing loosehead the way it should be played.  His head was so close
to the hooker that I had no room to get in there.  Normally, I can grab
the loosehead's shoulder and pull him out a tad on the way in, but
you can't do that with Doc.  You have to EARN that spot in there, and
that comes at the price of yo' haid.  I've got a few lumps this morning.


Looking ahead, October 5th sees us at home against Beacon Hill.  That
should be a really interesting day because there will be a HUGE (65-70,000
people) anti income tax rally at the State Capitol.  The State Police
are talking about shutting down highways and roads, and the whole 
contingent from East Hartford is thinking of marching across the river,
which will mean shutting down a bridge.  I may just camp out in my
truck at the pitch.....


Psyched to play,
'Saw
8.1024CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 11:4711
Oh yeah, 

I have DIRECTIONS to the Amoskeag game, but they're out in the 
truck.

If I can get this big ol' prop butt outta my seat, work the kinks
outta my hamstrings, and walk out there, I'll post 'em later
this morning....


'Saw
8.1025BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Sep 27 1991 12:1417
	Actually, I'd go for a Wallabies jersey rather than an All-Blacks.
I wear a size 40 jersey, I don't know what that converts to.  Usually in
shirts I take a large.  They're usually big but that's how I like my clothes.
	Speaking of jerseys, I scored big last night.  A friend of mine gave
me one, a tour jersey from Hatfield Polytechnic.  It's by Mansfield, if that
means anything to anyone, it's all cotton and weighs about a ton.  Blue, with
a red and white (Chevron? Vthingee?) on the front, with the school name and
mascot on one side and an eagle on the other.  Plus, it's a #6 jersey, so it's
even my number.  I'm wearing it today and it is sooooo nice.  This will add
to my "international collection" (I think this makes 5) and it's my second
"polytechnic" (I've also got Ecole Central).  Today I feel like, who cares
about A-side, they're all stuffy anyways, but I've got this heavenly jersey!
	We've got two home games this weekend, again on Storrow Drive 
between Science Museum and Longfellow bridge, from 11 till 1:30 if anyone's
around in Boston.

Rachael
8.1026IAMOK::WASKOMFri Sep 27 1991 12:587
    Thank you for the wonderful offer to tape the World Cup matches.  *I*
    don't, unfortunately, know anyone with PAL format, but I'll check
    around.
    
    Sorry to hear about the injuries, 'Saw - especially Brian's.
    
    A&W
8.1027CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 13:0024
HERE ARE THE DIRECTIONS TO HWRFC @ AMOSKEAG:



	84 EAST to the MASS Pike

	290 to 495 NORTH

	93 NORTH into MANCHESTER, NH.

	93 NORTH to 293-101 WEST.

	Take the FIRST South Willow Street Exit

	At top of exit take a left, go one mile
	to Goffs Falls RD.

	Take a right, go 3/4 mile and the school
	we are playing at is on the RIGHT.


	A SIDE steps off at 1pm.....

'Saw
8.1028Alot can happen in 4 yearsCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 27 1991 13:045
8.1029CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 27 1991 13:118
    WRFC takes on Springfield at Quinsigamond State Park tomorrow at 1:30
    pm.  The Faded Blacks (Worcester's Old Boys side) play Providence Old
    Boys at 11:30.  I'm still at B side lock.
    
    From what I saw of Amoskeag last fall, 'Saw, you will be facing a mixed
    bag at C side.  We travelled to NH with a few extras, Amoskeag had a
    few extras, so we had a 25 minute match to try and get everyone playing
    time.  Being in Division I, Amoskeag is obligated to put out 3 sides.
8.1030CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 13:2429
    
>    Sorry to hear about the injuries, 'Saw - especially Brian's.


He'll be back before the end of the season, if I know him.

I could not believe what I saw.  I mean, the guy from New Haven
(he was a short little flanker with a BIG attitude) purposely tried
to injure him.  Brian went balistic and all you could hear was him
screaming "You f___ing bast__d" as he went after him.  And no hooey,
there were about five of us on the sidelines that moved forward
about two steps to head out there.

The ref admonished everyone involved (two captains, Bri and the guy)
and they resumed play.

Late in the game Glen got the guy good.  The guy was giving glenn
some hooey, and Glen just kneed him in the face.  Glen was good
before the Eagles, but Eagles camp has given him something -- an edge,
a little bit of temper, I don't know, but I'm getting the impression that
this kid is tough as nails now....

Brian was running at practice last night, and I predict he's out there
against Boston on Oct 12.

No Hartford rugger wants to be on the sidelines when we play Boston....


'Saw
8.1031WPIRFC vs WPIOBCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 27 1991 15:015
    I forgot to mention that I'll be playing in a rugby doubleheader this
    weekend.  It is Homecoming Weekend at Worcester Polytechnic Institute
    and the annual game between the WPIRFC and their alumni will be played
    on Sunday.  After matches on 2 consecutive days, don't be too surprised
    if you don't hear from me on Monday ;^)
8.1032CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 15:138
>After matches on 2 consecutive days, don't be too surprised
>    if you don't hear from me on Monday ;^)



No worse than being on tour dude!

8^)
8.1033You also don't have to go to work when on tourCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Sep 27 1991 15:173
    Even on tour, there are usually a couple of days between matches.  That
    is of course unless you underestimate the number of tourists and tell
    your hosts you are bringing 2 full sides.
8.1034CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussFri Sep 27 1991 16:546
re .-1:

	8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^) 8^)


'Saw
8.1035CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussSun Sep 29 1991 13:1567
Well, Hartford continued its fall season winning streak yesterday, beating
new Division I entry Amoskeag 54-3.

To this point in the league season (Charles River, New Haven, Amoskeag)
Hartford has not allowed an opponent to score a try.

Yesterday's game showed Hartford rugby at its best, the pack supporting
so well that Amoskeag's backs were drawn in, creating a lot of overloads.
If Glen's kicking had been better I dare say the score might have been
in the 70s.

And a remarkable display of team unity took place when an Amoskeag rugger
cheap-shotted Doc.  Bob Hess took the guy to task in a pugilistic manner,
while Hartford pushed deep into Amoskeag territory.


B side also won, but I don't know the score.


Now that Amoskeag is in Division I, they have to field three sides.  What
this meant was that the largest part of their third side was really their
A side.

We started well.  Our rucks and mauls were pretty even.  Very early 
in the game, as we were pushing into their territory a fight of sorts broke
out.  The Amoskeag back made the cardinal mistake of going after the guy
he was mad at, instead of minding his defensive position.  Our man went
and scored the try, while two Amoskeag ruggers were beating up on our
other guy.

One of the Amoskeag ruggers, and our fellow were sent off.  We marked the
Amoskeag rugger who wasn't sent off for treatment later.  (Late in the
game he was viciously tackled by one of our backs.  He got his).

Amoskeag was outscrumming us.  Their pack, with the exception of their
loosehead, was all A side.  For my part I had NO push behind me whatsoever.
In fact, whenever I hear a lock, talking to another lock about shoulders
and stuff, I know that he's basically sucking blue whale (as Wayne would
say).

Plus, their front row was constantly trying to push DOWN.  The scrum
must've collapsed eight times all afternoon.  I was ready to just beat
the sh_t out of the guy opposite me, because I think he was responsible for
a lot of it.   If we had had a decent ref (he was one of their A side
who wasn't playing) that might have been stopped, but as it was the scrum
was untidy all afternoon.


It was an experience.  I spent more time untangling myself from the
front rows heap on the ground that I did anything else.  I'm surprised
their hooker didn't break his neck, because it was that messy.
(And Mac, I finally got a good nose shot from a hooker's knee...ouch)

At half time, we were down 16-6.  Their backs were overloading us
pretty well.

We came back in the second half to tie at 16-16, but a late try left
us losing at 20-16 when no side was whistled.

We were proud of what we accomplished against what amounted to their A side.
My neck, shoulders, and back aren't doing to well today, and I hope that
I never have that particular lock behind me again.  It took all of my
self discipline not to just blow up at him on the field.

Next week is Beacon Hill at home, I think.....

'Saw
8.1036CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussMon Sep 30 1991 09:4418

	All I want for Christmas is a lock who'll push,
	A lock who'll push, A lock who'll push.
	All I want for Christmas is a lock who'll push,
	I can't hold the scrum up alone.

	All I want for Christmas is a flanker on my hip,
	A flanker on my hip, a flanker on my hip.
	All I want for Christmas is a flanker on my hip,
	who'll push me all the way home.


If any of you folks have an in with old St. Nick, pass this along,
okay????

thanks,
'Saw
8.1037Well pissed offEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredMon Sep 30 1991 11:4224
8.1038CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussMon Sep 30 1991 11:5226
Hi Ed....


Say, you wanna pop on over to the States?  I'll buy ya a beer, and we can
talk about you locking behind me, because I need someone who can push 8^)


Let me say this.  I'm no expert, I haven't been playing long, but here's
my cut at it.

For every bummer of a game like the one you just had, there are bound
to be four or five or ten where everything clicks, there's good competitive
sportsmanlike rugby, and win or lose there's a satisfaction.

Don't put up your boots now.  Hang in there a little.  There will be
a time in the future when you play that team again, and when that time
comes you'll have a better ref, and your team will be pumped up, and
you'll take no prisoners, as the saying goes.


Hang in there.  I can feel for that prop, believe me.

there's always next week, dude....hang in there....


'Saw
8.1039WRFC defeats SpringfieldCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 30 1991 11:5938
    Worcester hosted Springfield on Saturday in a battle of long time
    divisional rivals.  The A game was fairly uneventful with most of the
    action occurring between the 22 meter lines and no tries being scored. 
    Worcester squandered away a few excellent scoring opportunities. 
    Springfield dominated the set pieces which allowed them to kick
    themselves out of trouble.  Worcester ruled in the loose however.  The
    final score was Worcester RFC 6, Springfield Rifles RFC 0.  Worcester
    is now 2-1 in league play and 2-2 overall.
    
    The B side got its first true test of the season.  Springfield is the
    only team to date that has fielded 2 full sides.  This allowed us the
    chance to play against fresh competition in a full length match.  The
    second side fared much better in the set pieces than the first side and
    showed the same dominance in the loose play.  The backline is finally
    getting comfortable with each other and as a result we were able to
    score some tries.  There was a bit of a letdown/breakdown late in the
    second half as Springfield must have spent at least 10 minutes inside
    our 22.  They were finally rewarded with a try with a couple of minutes
    left in the match to spoil Worcester's shutout bid.  Final score was
    Worcester B 16, Springfield B 4.  The B side is now 3-0 in league play
    and 4-0 overall.
    
    Sunday was the annual WPIRFC Homecoming game.  Turnout was low again
    this year.  We had to settle for playing a game of 8 on 8.  The alumni
    showed up with 8 players and the undergrads with about 15.  We played 2
    10 minute periods (that seemed more like 20) with the undergrads making
    substitutions at halftime.  The Old Boys were a bit surprised and
    humbled as the undergrads were able to take a tie into halftime. 
    Experience and guile once again triumphed over youth and enthusiasm as
    we were able to shut them out in the second half and add 3 or 4 tries
    to our score.  A good time was had by all.  Hopefully we'll be able to
    go back to full 15-a-side games in the coming years.
    
    'Saw, Doug Annesser and I are working on getting you another lock.  One
    of the alumni who played yesterday lives in Middletown, CT.  He hasn't
    played since he graduated a couple of years ago.  He's got some wheels
    and is a decent jumper.  I'm not sure about scrummaging technique since
    he propped in the 3 man scrums, but he did OK.
8.1040CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussMon Sep 30 1991 12:2345
>    
>    'Saw, Doug Annesser and I are working on getting you another lock.  One
>    of the alumni who played yesterday lives in Middletown, CT.  He hasn't
>    played since he graduated a couple of years ago.  He's got some wheels
>    and is a decent jumper.  I'm not sure about scrummaging technique since
>    he propped in the 3 man scrums, but he did OK.


NOW I know why he said he didn't have far to drive.  I never put two and
two together.

Yeah, we could use another good lock.

The problem was that the guy behind me is really a prop.  He *always*
whines about playing second row.  Well, come to think of it, he whines
about playing prop too.  In fact, since he has been coming to practice,
and I was only going a running, I'm suprised I got the prop selection
and not the second row selection.  I could have given him a much
better push than he did me.

We had an older Irish guy playing 8man.  John (forget his last name).
Anyway, he's a GOOD player.  All I kept hearing him say was "second
rows keep your asses down"....  So I know things werent' great back
there.

The left side of the scrum had the strongest second row, and a good
flanker.

Well, it's only a game.


I did get one carry in.  With my hand taped it's very hard to pick up
the ball, and believe me, I got cleaned good a couple of times while
I was trying.   The one carry I had, I was in a maul, and as I broke
off to come back in from behind, the ball bounced down on the ground
up and into my hands.  I took off, got about three yard and felt the
hit coming so I turned.  Fortunately, my good hand was on the shoulder
I turned, and the guy had that one grabbed.  I managed a little flip
up pass with the bad hand, and John got us out of where we were (inside
our 22).  Every other time the ball was on the ground, and I either
knocked on trying to pick up, or got cleaned as I was doing it...

Oh well, next week is another week....

'Saw
8.1041CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 30 1991 13:3214
8.1042CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussMon Sep 30 1991 13:3414
>    If you can't pick the ball up easily whether due to bad hands or the
>    opposition bearing down, initiate the ruck.  Step over the ball and
>    plow into the first available opponent.  Let one of your teammates pick
>    the ball up.

Yeah, I thought in retrospect on one of them that's what I should have done.

On the others, I figured I had time, but didn't count on the quickness
of one of their flankers.

Live and learn....8^)

'Saw

8.1043US will have to pay to watch matches 1 month lateCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 30 1991 13:465
    I don't have confirmation on this yet, but it appears the World Cup
    will be televised in the States.  From what I've heard, SportsChannel
    will televise the matches starting in November and run them into
    February.
    
8.1045CAM::WAYRIP Dr. SeussMon Sep 30 1991 13:5511
>    I don't have confirmation on this yet, but it appears the World Cup
>    will be televised in the States.  From what I've heard, SportsChannel
>    will televise the matches starting in November and run them into
>    February.


And at that, they're only highlight matches, from what I've heard...


'Saw    

8.1046IAMOK::WASKOMMon Sep 30 1991 17:2612
    Well, I guess that highlight matches, late, is better than nothing --
    but not a whole lot.
    
    Ed, you have my sympathies.  I dislike watching matches like that, and
    there are/were a few teams around here that one always *anticipates*
    that the play will be a brawl, rather than a game.  To have the ref
    make the situation worse rather than better never helps.  Hope everyone
    heals up quickly and completely, and you get your revenge the next
    time.  And if you must quit, but the last game you play be a good one,
    rather than that BS situation...
    
    A&W 
8.1047CAM::WAYThank you, Thank you, Sam I amMon Sep 30 1991 18:168
And Ed, you've got to admit that every once in a while you've had the
itch to put someone's lights out.

I'm the easy-goingest guy around, but man, on Saturday.....

Hang in there big guy.  And next time that ref does one of your matches,
just accidently run over him while he's on your "blind" side 8^)
[JUST KIDDING!]
8.1048BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Sep 30 1991 20:0542
    Ed,	Sorry to hear about your match.  That kind of thing really
    degenerates quickly.  I know that if someone pulls a cheap move on me
    or one of my teammates, I will do my best to discourage that behaviour.
    I know it just tends to escalate things, but when you're in the heat
    of play, you're not at your most rational.
     	
    We had two more major injuries this weekend, to add to an already scary
    season.   To start with,  one of our A-side flankers broke her
    collarbone at Saranac.  Then, another top flanker/hooker  dislocated
    her arm badly last weekend. A lock/flanker has been out with back
    spasms, and possibly fractured her finger last Saturday.  Also on
    Saturday, one of our wings fractured her nose and a flanker/scrumhalf
    did something serious to her knee.   (Yes, we have a lot of flankers,
    that's not all of them)   Not to mention 5 stitches on one
    of our rookies knees, and a wicked black eye on another rookie.  We
    are all knocking on wood.  We usually only have about one major injury
    a season, which we regret but it doesn't seem any worse than soccer
    or any other sport.   I personally have minor injuries in both
    shoulders and had to take a minute Saturday as I got kicked hard in
    the knee.  It's still sore, but not serious.  This will be remembered
    as Beantown's injured Fall, as far as I'm concerned.
    
    We played Merrimack Saturday, the A-side won about 62-0 and the B-side
    played the same side over again plus 3 Beantown A-side players to an
    8-4 victory.  Merrimack is a very frustrating team to play, they tend
    to not know the game very well but play very hard.  That means there
    players tend to be hanging out all over the field and will do just
    about anything.  So all your forward actions to draw in the opposing
    forwards don't work, and they play the ball in an amazingly random
    way.  Our play against them tends to be very sloppy.  They definitely
    posed a threat against our B-side.
    	I had an OK game.  My tackling is a bit off because I hesitate 
    due to my shoulders hurting, but I haven't completely wiffed it
    any more than usual.  They are getting stronger through playing, I
    managed to rest them just enough before the beginning of the season.
    But I'm not too strong in either arm.
    	Next weekend we host a college tourney, so we don't play at all.
    Then we go down to Philly to play our two strongest rivals on the
    East Coast, after not having had a challening game this season.
    Should be interesting.  
    
    Rachael
8.1049WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardMon Sep 30 1991 21:5211
    Re: 'Saw, Mac, et al,
    
    The show that I've been catching on Sportschannel for updates is on
    sunday nights 7:00-10:00.  I don't know if this is same time  fro the
    world cup action, but it seems to be when they (Sportschannel) runs
    most international sports competition.
    
    Conan
    
    
    PS... I just got my first hurly and I caint wait to try it out!  8^)
8.1050WalllabbiiesEDUOZ::THURGARTue Oct 01 1991 20:5811
    First coverage of the first game of the World Cup starts Thursday
    11.00pm (Australian time). Can't wait England Vs All Blacks. Big
    problem is that I may have to fly to Melbourne to teach DECforms for an
    ill instructor and there is no coverage in Melbourne. I will fill you
    in with details as they come to hand. Monday is a public holiday here
    and I am away Tuesday, the rest of the week I am teaching SQL on-site
    at a client. But I will endeavour to give as much info as I can.
    
    Prediction time - Australia to win (I am not biased)
    
    Madge 
8.1051CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodWed Oct 02 1991 13:179
Sorry Madge, gotta go with New Zealand.

I'd like to see England, or Scotland as an outside chance take it, 
but I think that the Lions, while they've been playing excellent,
won't stand up to the All Blacks...

Just a hunch though.....

'Saw
8.1052CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodWed Oct 02 1991 15:4911
Well, for those of you who can't stand New Zealand, I'll pass this
little piece of information on:


	On my "Gren" rugby calendar, which has some awfully funny	
	rugby cartoons, and witty sayings for some of the days,
	it says that October 11 is the Official 'Hate the All-Blacks'
	Day.....

fyi,
'Saw
8.1053CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodWed Oct 02 1991 16:2314
Well, I just got a last minute call from my captain.  Seems HWRFC
has a little game going against Trinity College this evening.

I have to get out of here and get ready to go play.

Should be interesting.  I'm still a little beat up from playing
against an A side pack last Saturday, and now, now I have to go play
against some college studs...

Damn, I wish I was on steroids!  [only KIDDING].....


later,
'Saw
8.1054CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 02 1991 17:257
    Good luck, 'Saw.  Trinity crushed my boys from WPI on Saturday to a
    tune of 36-0.  This was their worst defeat of the year and most of my
    vets said it was the best team they have played.  Their backs are big
    *and* fast.  They are very good in support play and try to maintain 3
    players around the ball carrier at all times.  I'll freely admit that
    WPI is still in a rebuilding mode, but I wouldn't take Trinity too
    lightly.
8.1055BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Oct 02 1991 19:1410
	And here I was thinking October 11 was National Coming Out day...

	I'm not so sure the All Blacks will take it.  I don't follow 
international men's rugby outside this conference too much, but from
what I've heard, there are teams that can beat them.  That being the
case, it will come down to who plays with the most heart.
	
	Hope your game was fun, 'Saw.  

Rachael
8.1056Game 1 soonEDUOZ::THURGARWed Oct 02 1991 20:324
    I think I may change my birthday to 11 October.
    Late night tonight with the first game. Updates tomorrow.
    
    Madge
8.1057Go EnglandEDUOZ::THURGARThu Oct 03 1991 01:228
    Party at my place tonight, to watch the World Cup opener. 
    
    Prediction England beat the All Blacks by 6 points. The All Blacks get
    caned unmercifully by the ref.
    
    Wishful Thinking ? We will see
    
    Madge
8.1058CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 09:575
Madge, have a beer or two for me.  I'm rooting for England btw....
(oops, sorry, I should say I'm "supporting" England...I forgot you
folks have some different word meanings down under....)

'Saw
8.1059CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 10:1175
Okay,

Game report against Trinity.  

I'm not sure of the score (never am when I play) but we won. I know
that we scored three tries, but I don't know about conversions....
So it was at least 12-0.

It wasn't really a match in the strictest sense, however.  We played
a series of 15 minute "periods", after which Mike Fox, one of our coaches
who was working with Trinity for the evening, would circle them up
and, well, coach them.

Faustie would call us aside and remind us of what we weren't doing etc etc.

Prior to the match we were told to keep our spikes in their holsters,
and to just play hard, clean, Wanderers rugby.

I started out at Tighthead, but we were scrumming really shitty.  I was
having a problem hanging onto my bind on the hooker (that's the bad hand).
I'd get set, but then Teddy, our loosehead, would bind and really 
jack the hooker, and I'd lose it. 

I had a great lock behind me.  Bull was playing, and I was getting good
push, but between a combination of me having problems staying tight
on the hooker, and the left side collapsing because everyone's favorite
lock (old Prop Joe B.) was, as usual, failing to push, we were not
winning very many scrums.

After the first period, Faustie made a change.  After that we scrummed
REALLY well, and pretty much owned them there.   The change was
that they moved Teddy to tighthead, pulled Joe up from lock to loosehead,
moved the hooker to flanker and the flanker to lock.

That left one opening in the middle of the front row.  Guess what?

Yep, the Chainsaw hooked for the first time in his life.  What an
experience.  In fact, I loved it!

It felt kind of weird with both arms out, and we did have one scrum
collapse (and I'll honestly say I was never more scared in my life
than when that baby went down), but for the most part, I was really
getting into it.

I just took charge up there, calling for fronts, then seconds, and
on our put-ins, I made sure that I was the one bringing the scrum
together.

I made all of my hooks (quite well too), and all we did on their
hooks was just push over.  I didn't try to steal it or anything.
In fact, I've got to talk to one of the other hookers on how
to do that....I mean, can you use your left foot to try to steal
it?

The guy who was playing hooker before me kept throwing the lineout
ball, because I'm left handed and with the hand taped, I can't throw.


I played okay in the loose.  Trinity fringed A LOT, but it was more
inexperience than intentional.

On the last play of the game, they were driving, trying to score, and
I hit their ball carrier about 5 meters out.  Like Mac said there
were immediately three guys there.  I had hands on the ball, and
was just trying to get all my body between him and the ball and the zone.
One of my backs came up to help.

We ended up on the ground in the try zone, but because I never let go
of the ball, it was on my chest, not on the ground.  The ref said
5 meter scrum, but as I was dragging my fat old tired body off the
ground, he blew no side....


All in all a fun evening, which helped Trinity a lot.  After each
period they would improve....
8.1060BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 03 1991 10:5518
Oh my god the world's largest hooker.  Not really actually, it sounds like a
blast.  You must have terrified the other team, though.

You can use your nose to steal their ball so long as you don't have your
foot up when the ball's put in.  Seriously, hookers will often use left
foot to steal the opponent's ball, some use right foot anyways, and sometimes
they don't bother but their scrum operates an "eight man push", so that
they can blow the opponent  off the ball.  In that case, the hooker doesn't
hook at all but has both feet down and is pushing.  Timing is important
on that, the whole scrum needs to pop at once.

Sounds like a fun game against Trinity.

And hey out there you guys in the world where rugby is on TV.  Thank you
so much for your input and I can't wait to hear your reports on the
games.

Rachael
8.1061CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 11:1548
>Oh my god the world's largest hooker.  Not really actually, it sounds like a
>blast.  You must have terrified the other team, though.

When Faustie told me to hook, he told me, "You hooked good last Saturday".
I said "I was tighthead, not hooking".  He replied "Yeah, but
Timmy (the hooker) said you hooked all his missed hooks"...

After the game, one of our guys said "You know, there are such things
as BIG hookers...."

I don't know if I terrified them or not.  Their loosehead was shorter
than their hooker.  I just wanted to "seem" to take charge.  A lot
of times, if you don't know what you're doing, but you can give
the *illusion* that you do, things work.


>You can use your nose to steal their ball so long as you don't have your
>foot up when the ball's put in.  Seriously, hookers will often use left
>foot to steal the opponent's ball, some use right foot anyways, and sometimes
>they don't bother but their scrum operates an "eight man push", so that
>they can blow the opponent  off the ball.  In that case, the hooker doesn't
>hook at all but has both feet down and is pushing.  Timing is important
>on that, the whole scrum needs to pop at once.

Okay, I'll try the left foot.  I'm left footed anyway, so that might
help....

On their hooks we did the 8 man push almost exclusively.  It worked
well, because a lot of the time they'd win the hook but we'd be pushing
them off the ball....


The biggest difficulty I had was knowing when to signal the scrumhalf
to put the ball in.  The "movement" of the front rows is a lot more
pronounced at hooker than at tighthead, at least to me, and I don't
think that I should wait too long for it so settle some...

We'll see how it goes Saturday.  If I have to hook for C side to
have a decent scrum (because old Prop Joe B. can't push worth a damn)
then I'll hook.....


>Sounds like a fun game against Trinity.

They gave us a good game.  I enjoyed the fact that we were helping
them improve their game skills.  I liked that...

'Saw
8.1062BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 03 1991 12:1217
From my small but nonzero attempts at hooking,

Most common for put-in is the tap of the hooker's hand, or just have
the scrumhalf put the ball in on contact (of the scrums).  I like the
latter, then you receive the ball on the forward surge of initial impact. 
It's quick, and it's sharp.  It also allows the rest of the pack to know
the timing of the ball coming in, while on a signal only the hooker and
the scumhalf know.  Playing channel side flanker most often, it makes me
a lot more effective if I know when the ball's coming in.  Same for #8.
In fact, only reason I can see for a signal is to toy with the opposing
hooker sometimes, if he/she is stealing your balls, so that you mess his/her
timing.

Maybe someone else can fill me in on more reasons you'd want to signal.


Rachael
8.1063CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 12:2932
The way we do it is like this. (The Ritual).....

I get on the mark, and put my hands on my head and yell "Fronts".
Once both props have bound on, I get my arms set on them, and
yell "Seconds".  The locks and the flankers come in.  

That's the part that's tricky, because the surge feels so different
than at prop.

Then, on our put in, I yell in a rhythm "Grips...Sync...In" and
we come together.

When I'm ready, I yell "GREEN" and tap my hand.  All eight of us
yell NOW as I hook the ball.


The tricky part of that is that the "ripple" along the front row
feels so much different at hooker than at prop.  Last night, they
barged on one, so I didn't call for the ball.  If I had, they would
have been over it before I had a chance to hook it.  I was thinking
that the ref might have whistled it up, and reset us, but he ended
up giving them the ball because we failed to put in.  Guess I
blew that one.


It's kind of fun.  I don't know how long my neck will last.  It's
awfully sore this morning, but I am looking forward to getting
a chance to throw some lineout balls....

Talk about something completely different!!!!!!

'Saw
8.1064CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 03 1991 12:3225
8.1065CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 12:4835
8.1066BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 03 1991 12:5916
Being a utility player will be to your advantage when you try out for select
sides.  :^)

I think your cadence sounds great. (saw)

By the way, I think I was playing rugby for about 5 years before I found
out that one of the props was supposed to bind first, and that the tighthead
should lead in.  

I'm psyched for the college tourney we're hosting this weekend.  So far,
ten teams coming.  That might drop still, but we'll see.  I just don't
know what to wear, I hardly ever go to games to watch!  Someboday gave me
a really pretty dress yesterday, maybe I could wear that to play touch for
the colleges.  Just so long as it's warm enough and not too muddy.

Rachael
8.1067CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 03 1991 13:124
    It may be just a personal preference, but I don't like announcing to
    the other front row that I'm coming in.  When I used to be a tighthead
    prop I developed a sense of when our scrum was ready and just took us
    in.
8.1068CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 13:2630
Rachael....

That will be the day... Old Beatup Chainsaw trying out for a select side.
Say, does anyone know if there's such a think as Wheelchair Rugby?


Mac....

I've noticed since the spring that the refs are watching the coming
together thing a lot more closely.  In the past couple of games
the other side has said nothing, and just come in, and he'll pull
them up and say something like "I want Touch-Pause-Engage Gentlemen".

From the Wanderers point of view (and it's probably just a philosophy
thing) it's very much an attitude of "Here we come.  How are you 
gonna stop us?"

I still have a lot to learn about playing in the front row, but
it makes the game so much more fun.  I have noticed that you take
a lot more of a beating up there, so much that I think more of my
fatigue in a game is coming from the scrummaging, whereas at second
row, it was a case of just plain getting tired from running around...


Phew....

The worst part is I have practice tonight.  I hope I still have a tube
of BenGay in my kit for my neck.....

'Saw
8.1069Blacks triumphEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredThu Oct 03 1991 13:5914
    Y'all,
    
    For those of you who are interested, the All Blacks beat England 18-12
    in the opening match, which finished a couple of minutes ago.
    
    I didn't see the game, but apparently, the Blacks took the English pack
    to the cleaners in the second half and gave them a real roasting in the
    front row. The Blacks scored one try, with all other points coming from
    place kicks or drop goals.
    
    As they say here in France - "Le rugby commence devant".
    
    Salut,
    Ed.
8.1070CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 14:084
>                              -< Blacks triumph >-

So much for my prediction..... 8^(

8.1071Maul,srum,prop,hook, #$#@%??CTHQ2::LEARYThu Oct 03 1991 14:187
    Can any of you guys and gals recommend a "Understanding basic rugby"
    pamphlet or small book?  I don't know what in the hail you're all
    talking about, but it sure looks like you'se all enthused.
    Danke
    
    MikeL
    
8.1072RE: MikeL - The Moonies were enthused too!AXIS::ROBICHAUDDOCKERS...Pants for Champions!Thu Oct 03 1991 14:271
    
8.1073CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 03 1991 14:3010
    Mike, send me your mailstop and I'll post something to you.  I have
    some pamphlets, flyers, etc. giving some good, basic info on the game. 
    'Saw might even have a softcopy of one I posted in the conference a
    while back.
    
    Interesting doings in the Maxwell League this season.  Typically one
    team goes undefeated to capture the crown.  Because of this we in
    Worcester were a bit down after being beaten by Burlington.  We have
    since found out that Old Gold defeated Burlington last Saturday.  We
    play Old Gold in 3 weeks, so our destiny is back in our own hands.
8.1074CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 15:1559
>
>    Can any of you guys and gals recommend a "Understanding basic rugby"
>    pamphlet or small book?  I don't know what in the hail you're all
>    talking about, but it sure looks like you'se all enthused.
>    Danke

Mike --

I just fired off Mac's Most Excellent Rugby Primer.

One interesting thing about the game is that it is an ancestor of
American Football.  What is the Line of Scrimmage in football directly
relates to the "tunnel" in the scrum, and in fact the word Scrummage
is the full name of what we refer to as scrums.

Rugby originated at Rugby School in England, when an enterprising
young lad decided he was tired of playing football (soccer) only
with his feet, and picked up the ball and ran with it.  Today, on
the grounds of Rugby School there is a monument and a plaque in
his honor.

Originally in the game, when you carryed the ball across the goal line
you were allowed to try a kick at goal.  You received no points for
the "touchdown".  That is why it's called a TRY.  As the game evolved
you got points for the try.  (btw, in rugby a touchdown is what we refer
to in football as a touchback).


In 1924, the United States defeated France for the only Gold Medal awarded
in the Olympics for Rugby.  I believe the score was 17-3.


In today's game, there are 7 teams considered in the upper echelon of
International Rugby:  New Zealand, Australia, France, and the home
nations of Scotland, England, Ireland, and Wales.  South Africa has
just been allowed back into international competition, so they would
naturally round out the upper echelon.

The US Eagles are considered to be at the next level down...


In the US, all club level rugby is presided over by the USARFU (USA Rugby
Football Union).  There are four regional unions -- The Pacific, Midwest,
East and West.   These unions preside over the individual leagues, and
in addition choose their Select Sides, an all-star squad of sorts.
Most of the Eagles are chosen from the four select sides.

Every year, the leagues play.  Here in New England Division I the
Wanderers play league games against the 7 other opponents in the New
England league.   Then there are playoffs.  Similar to the NCAA playoff,
there are regionals, and you ultimately make it to the Final Four.

Mac could tell you more about Divison II.


Hope this helps a bit....

'Saw    

8.1075BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 03 1991 15:3422
I thought of  suggesting the offical lawbook for Mike, just kidding, hahaha.
(For those of you not in the know, it's completely greek)

Ditto on most of what Saw said.  He forgot to mention that the teammates of the
enterprising young lad responded to his actions (so legend has it) by jumping
on him.  Thus, the tackling aspect of the game.

And, if you want to get technical, the East is a territory.  Used to be called
the ERU, (Eastern Rugby Union) but people who want publicity and money for 
rugby decided that sounded too much like labor strife, so it's since been
renamed USA Rugby East.  Similarly, the USRFU I think has been named USA Rugby
or something like.  New England, which is a region (the subdivisions of the
ERU are called regions) has maintained their traditional title of NERFU by
a narrow margin in a union vote several years ago.

What's devant mean?

Thanks for the up-to-the minute on the All-Blacks game.  I'm still leaning
towards Australia for the win, but maybe the All-Blacks will do it again
after all.

Rachael
8.1076FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Oct 03 1991 15:386
    Cecil Fielder was a runner on first last for the Tigers.  Mo Vaughn was
    the firstbaseman.  I was heard to remark "Mac, now *THOSE* are a couple
    of prop butts if I ever saw them."  Mac replied "Too bad 'Saw isn't
    here."
    
    John
8.1077CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 15:4414
Rachael --

Thanks for the correction on the Union/Territory thang.  I knew I wasn't
right, but it was the concept I was after ;^)



John Hendry --

Watch it.  I *resemble* that remark!  8^)


'Saw_who_has_to_work_on_getting_a_hooker_butt....

8.1078just call me Gunga DinCTHQ2::LEARYThu Oct 03 1991 15:498
    Thanks 'Saw,
    Wif my build, 5'7", 160 lbs and with a MPH to match yours, I think I'll
    stick to water boy. 
    
    I'm gonna start readin me primer.
    
    MikeL
    
8.1079RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOIn Harm's WayThu Oct 03 1991 15:529
    Saw -
    
    Actually, that's a typical Brit claim.  It's well known the Brits stole
    the idea of Rugby from other games, such as gaelic football, which was
    played way before Rugby.
    
    The only thing the Brits ever invented was rotten food.
    
    JD
8.1080:-)FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Oct 03 1991 16:096
    'Saw,
    
    I know you resemble that remark but it wasn't me who made it, it was
    Mac.  Blame him.  Settle your differences in combat on the pitch.
    
    Ninj
8.1081CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 03 1991 16:116
    Mike, that sounds like a definitive hooker build to me.
    
    Actually there were 2 Olympic gold medals awarded in rugby.  The US won
    them both in 1920 and 1924.
    
    JD, pppttthhhhhpppppttttt
8.1082CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 16:3222
>    Mike, that sounds like a definitive hooker build to me.

Yeah, or a scrappy scrum half...8^)
    
>    Actually there were 2 Olympic gold medals awarded in rugby.  The US won
>    them both in 1920 and 1924.

I wasn't totally sure of it being just the one, but in keeping with my
new hooker mentality, I decided that forging ahead as if I knew what
I was doing was my best bet 8^)
    
>    JD, pppttthhhhhpppppttttt

Yeah, JD, double ppppttttttthhhhhhppppppttttt

I mean, if the Irish had been so great they would have taken gaelic
football and made it into the noblest and greatest of all games, rugby ;^)


John Hendry,

Ok, I'll believe ya THIS time....8^)
8.1083nope, water boy buildCTHQ2::LEARYThu Oct 03 1991 16:4210
    No sir, don't confuse me wif' Xaviera Hollander! ( haven't read me
    rugby definitions yet!)
    
    'Saw and Mac,
    Perhaps JD should have gotten a leetle more definitive and said
    Englishmen, not Brits. After all, ye Scotsmen have no love lost for
    the Anglo-Saxon/Normans too, correct?  8^) 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
8.1084CAM::WAYJack Daniels and RedMan - SOME goodThu Oct 03 1991 16:5630
>    No sir, don't confuse me wif' Xaviera Hollander! ( haven't read me
>    rugby definitions yet!)

Nope, Hooker it is.  And your secret rugby nickname will be Hamster.

    
Go home and practice in front of a mirror.  Stand on the mark, put
your hands on your head (and make sure your shirt is tucked in, because
props hate to move a shirt to find your waistband).  Yell in a loud
and commanding voice:  FRONTS!

Now, in your mind imagine that the props have bound on and jacked you
up.  At this point your shorts are riding high, and it's not uncommon
for a portion of your anatomy, still protectively cradled in your
athletic support, to be peaking out the bottom of your right short leg.

Now, in the same voice, yell SECONDS!

Imagine you are at the beach, and your are at water's edge facing back
towards the lifeguard chair looking at the bodacious life guard.  Now,
imagine a large wave hitting you in the back of the legs.  That's you're
second row coming in....


Practice this faithfully Hamster, and one day you might be pledged to
the Fraternity Delta Tau Rugby....


'Saw

8.1085sounds like a circus nicknameCTHQ2::LEARYThu Oct 03 1991 17:129
    Sheesh, I ain't gettin mine in a sling.
    Why do I picture you lookin' like Tim Curry directing me in this folly
    
    Humph,
    Hamster indeed
    
    MikeL
    
    
8.1086BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 03 1991 17:193
Saw, you forgot the turn to the left, then your props violently propel you
back to facing forwards as the bind.

8.1087CAM::WAYBenGay and Motrin - SOME good!Thu Oct 03 1991 17:4015
>Saw, you forgot the turn to the left, then your props violently propel you
>back to facing forwards as the bind.

Rachael,

I didn't want to scare the Hamster off.  Some of these folks you have
to *ease* into it....


But for the record, that's my favorite part.

I thought my shorts used to ride high at second row!  Sheesh...

'Saw

8.1088CELTIK::JACOBYou Trying to make ME sick????Thu Oct 03 1991 17:5718
    
>>I didn't want to scare the Hamster off.  Some of these folks you have
>>to *ease* into it....
>>
>>
>>But for the record, that's my favorite part.
    
    'Saw:
    
    I'm shocked.  You aren't starting to do the samw thing with hamsters
    that Richard Gere allegedly did, are you????
    
    Or did he use gerbils????
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    
8.1089CTHQ2::LEARYThu Oct 03 1991 18:117
    Careful, Jake
    The Jack Valenti Decency Police (JVDP) will be a knockin' us off
    our G rating
    We'll be classified as a Triple AAA Junk Conf 8^), 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
8.1090CAM::WAYBenGay and Motrin - SOME good!Thu Oct 03 1991 18:1226
>    'Saw:
>    
>    I'm shocked.  You aren't starting to do the samw thing with hamsters
>    that Richard Gere allegedly did, are you????
>    
>    Or did he use gerbils????
    
No, no.  That's MikeL's new secret rugby nickname.....

We have certain traditions in rugby, and on occasion someone gets
a nickname.  For instance one guy who just came out, Eric Johnson
was immediately EJ...   Sometimes the nickname comes from
an incident that is really incongrous....  Last season one of our
second rows took a ball on a bounce and ran it 50 yards... he's
only a little faster than I am, yet his nickname is now "FlyBoy".
One of our wingers is "PrimeTime"....

Other rugby nicknames are really appropriate ones, like for the
prop from Manhattan, who is as big as the Fridge.  His nickname is
HeavyD....

My nickname seems to be "Frank will you get it right!".  At least
that's what they're always yelling from the sidelines 8^)

'Saw    

8.1091Right margin, wrong teamEDUOZ::THURGARThu Oct 03 1991 20:2240
    Oh my head hurts.
    Too many beers watching the World Cup.
    
    The first gane was won 18-12 by the All Blacks. I got the margin right.
    Just the wrong team.
    
    It was a typical 5 nations type game. Kick,kick,kick. Wait for a
    mistake. Get a penalty goal. Kick all over again. Not very
    entertaining. The lead see-sawed the whole first half, 3-0 england,
    3-3, 6-3 England, 6-6, 9-6 England, 9-9. All on penalty goals. A lot of
    these were on scrum infringements. The English pack (Dads Army -
    average age over 30), especially the tight 5 held there own against the
    All Blacks. Near half time England kicked a field goal to put them
    ahead 12-9 at the half. The conditions were overcast with light rain.
    Handling was not good and both sides looked nervous. The All Blacks did
    not seem in gear in the first half.
    
    The second half proved that the All Blacks and Australia will have an
    advantage in the World Cup, in conditioning. Both have just come off
    there seasons, whilst most other sides are just going into theres. The
    All Blacks played pressure rugby. Kept possession of the ball and wore
    the English down. Michael Jones scored a try on a run around, out to
    Kerwin and he backed up on the inside. The penalties killed England in
    the second half 9-1 at one stage. They kept trying to kill the play and
    they got canned for it. Fox kicked a penalty goal and that was the
    match. If the All Blacks get ahead in the 2nd half they are very hard
    to beat.
    
    Another late night tonight.
    
    Rachael and Saw - Jerseys - I checked the cost yesterday. For an all
    Black jersey (in black or white!!) $90 Australian Appox = $75US. New
    Australian jersey $100Aus = $80US. They also have the souvenir world
    cup jersey for $90Aus (gold with all the flags on the front). If you
    want one just tell me.
    
    Wont be around much next week. But I will try to keep in contact.
    
    Madge
    
8.1092WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardThu Oct 03 1991 21:3712
    Re .last few
    
    To parphrase Billy Joel:
    
    "It's still squaredancin to me!"
    
    8^)
    
    Conan
    
    PS... HURLING ROOLZS
    
8.1093CAM::WAYBenGay and Motrin - SOME good!Fri Oct 04 1991 09:5620
Madge --

Yeah, I'd like an All-Blacks in black please.  There's no rush, and
I'll have to figure out how to try and pay you, but that's no problem.


One my teammates had a copy of last Sunday's London Times, which was
devoted to the World Cup.  I caught snatches of a story about 
Campese, throwing a bad pass or something which ended up giving the
series to the Lions.  

That's about all I caught, except for the fact that it was something
of a scandal.

Can you give any insight?


And Best of Luck to the Aussies against the Argentinians...

'Saw
8.1094More beat up this season than ever before...CAM::WAYBenGay and Motrin - SOME good!Fri Oct 04 1991 10:0228
And back to the way bottom of the ladder at the club level....

Damn I am sore today.  The game on Wednesday, followed by a practice
last night...phew.  A lot of the guys who played (especially the forwards)
didn't show up.  I did 8^(

We worked a lot on kickoffs, and some near-goal offense.  It was
interesting, but the frustrating part for me was trying to will my
old body to do what a young mind wanted it to do.  I kept thinking
of Danny Glover in "Lethal Weapon" saying "I'm too old for this shit".

Big game tomorrow against Beacon Hill.  They are the friendliest
rivalry we have, so in that sense, it's the "biggest" game of the
season, excepting that in three more weeks Mystic River and Hartford
will me to (hopefully) decide who's league champs.

Hooked against the B-side last night.  Tougher than Trinity.  We
were short one second row, but that's okay, because they select
old prop Joe B (no push) to be second row (no push) for tomorrow's
game (no push) and he'll be making (no push) tons of excuses (no push)
anyway....


Got a night to get this old body back in playing shape.  Better stop
and get a BIG tube of BenGay on the way home.  Between, some Motrin,
and some Mineral Ice maybe...just maybe...

'Saw
8.1095BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Oct 04 1991 10:3128
$80 for a jersey is way out of my price range, but thanks for checking.  Maybe
someday, when my ship comes in, or I get my tax refund or something.

Practice last night was kind of fun, kind of frustrating.  We worked on some
new weak side plays, which was interesting.  We had two full packs exactly,
and they were switched in very regularly, which hasn't always been the case
for us.  I played flanker and #8, both of which were fun.  The frustrating
part was, for the pack where I was #8, we have two great big second rows who
just don't push much.  So the ball was stuck way up under them, which made it 
a trifle hard to dig out, much less make any plays with. I played #8 in a
game behind them, too, and it was the same story.  Very frustrating because
you can't do anything and it makes the 8 look bad.

We also did a drill I haven't done before, but I like.  You have about
6-8 people line up like a lineout, except very close together.  Then
you have two people go at them, one carrying the ball.  The two
people have to drive through the others with the second player securing
the ball in such a way as to be able to set it down at any point.  Meanwhile
the opposition is bumping and hitting them.  You can also do it with
more players in opposition and offense.  It's supposed to teach you to
get through a crowd, especially at the try line.  I thought it was pretty
realistic, and if we can get that kind of focused drive in a similar 
situation in a game, it will work well. 

Mac and Saw, you'll have to play for me this weekend, as we don't have any
games.  

Rachael
8.1096CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsFri Oct 04 1991 11:0235
>We also did a drill I haven't done before, but I like.  You have about
>6-8 people line up like a lineout, except very close together.  Then
>you have two people go at them, one carrying the ball.  The two
>people have to drive through the others with the second player securing
>the ball in such a way as to be able to set it down at any point.  Meanwhile
>the opposition is bumping and hitting them.  You can also do it with
>more players in opposition and offense.  It's supposed to teach you to
>get through a crowd, especially at the try line.  I thought it was pretty
>realistic, and if we can get that kind of focused drive in a similar 
>situation in a game, it will work well. 

As you describe this, I could hear Count (our coach) yelling
"Go in with somebody! Go in with somebody!"


I've noticed in the past two games I've got a problem with one skill.
Twice I've blown this, and I think it's because I try to think because
there is no "instinctual reaction".


I'll be coming back across the field from a ruck or maul, and the 
ball spins out the back line.  As I'm hustling to the other
side they crash back in right by me.  It seems I'm *always* caught
out of position to get on the guy and go in for the ruck or maul.
The first time, it was a back who was doing it, and my whole body
was just in the wrong place.  He jinked by me and got another ten
yards or so.

On Wednesday night it was a flanker, and he was looking I think to
go in with me.  I'm not sure.

I've got to figure out some way of not messing this up any more....8^)


'Saw
8.1097CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 12:1921
    Worcester RFC travels to Billings Field in West Roxbury tomorrow to
    take on the Boston Irish RFC.  Game time is 1 pm.  I'll be playing lock
    for the first side.  The scouting report says that these guys are
    young, athletic, and scrappy.  They have also allegedly wrested the
    title of smallest scrum in the union from the WRFC.  It will be a good
    test of our discipline on the field.  We have to concentrate on playing
    our style of game and take control.
    
    'Saw, I've been playing for almost 10 years now and I still find myself
    in that same situation every once in a while.  While in Austin I could
    have sworn that I had this big bullseye on the front and back of my
    jersey that only our standoff could see.  The more I tried to get out
    of the way, the worse the collision.  Don't worry about it, you're
    doing the right thing -- following the shortest pursuit lane to where
    you expect the ball to be.  You might try sweeping around a little
    deeper in your pursuit so that you come up behind the backline a little
    more.  The backs should be letting the forwards know via the scrumhalf
    if the ball is going to be run back at them.  They should also be
    running fast enough to put us slow tight five players on-side after the
    breakdown, but you know how those backs are ;^).
    
8.1098CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsFri Oct 04 1991 12:2048
    
>    'Saw, I've been playing for almost 10 years now and I still find myself
>    in that same situation every once in a while.  While in Austin I could
>    have sworn that I had this big bullseye on the front and back of my
>    jersey that only our standoff could see.  The more I tried to get out
>    of the way, the worse the collision.  Don't worry about it, you're
>    doing the right thing -- following the shortest pursuit lane to where
>    you expect the ball to be.  You might try sweeping around a little
>    deeper in your pursuit so that you come up behind the backline a little
>    more.  The backs should be letting the forwards know via the scrumhalf
>    if the ball is going to be run back at them.  They should also be
>    running fast enough to put us slow tight five players on-side after the
>    breakdown, but you know how those backs are ;^).


Thanks Mac.

I'm officially a "Utility Tight Five Player" now.  I've played every
position in the tight five.

The scariest thing:  a scrum collapsing while you're hooking!  I've
developed infinitely more respect than I've ever had for hooker in 
just two evenings.  One of our hookers told me last night he felt
sorry for me with my hand all taped.  He said "The thing you look
forward to all game is throwing in the lineouts.  The rest is just
hard, hard work"

Propping is hard work, but at least you've got a hand to help fend
off the guy coming into the scrum.  With my arms around the props,
when we start in I've got to admit to being a tad apprehensive.....

To quote on of the Irish guys that plays 8man with us:

	So yer playin' hooker, eh?  Well, I'll say yer daft
	but I won't say yer a Nancy....

Translation:

	Yer crazy, but you ain' no sissy...



Hey, Hamster!  Where were you last night?  I expected to see you
at practice!  You've got a lot of work to do if you're gonna play this
season....


'Saw
8.1099and muchin' some corn mealCTHQ2::LEARYFri Oct 04 1991 12:252
    Combing my whiskers
    
8.1100Participation FiguresCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 12:4329
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 127.7                Tabard RFC... Heard of them?                    7 of 8
49563::KENNEDY "Keith Kennedy FT1.0-001"             21 lines   4-OCT-1991 10:52
                      -< Registered players per country >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    As a matter of interest, how many rugby players are registered in
>    England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland?

    From my special rugby world cup copy of "Le Sport" (reprinted w/o
    permission) I can give you the following figures for the WC teams:


Country		# Registered players	Country		# Registered players
	
England		300 000			Scotland	 15 000
NZ		100 000			Ireland		 15 000
USA		 70 000			Japan		100 000
Italy		 40 000			Zimbabwe	 10 000

Australia	110 000			France		230 000
Wales		 15 000			Fiji		 20 000
Argentina	 40 000			Canada		} No figures
W Samoa		  4 000			Rumania		} "     "


Keith
    
8.1101Ha!RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOVon Ryan's ExpressFri Oct 04 1991 13:1214
    First off, Mac 'Thanks' for the little mail package.  
    
    Second - Saw and Mac - HAHAHAHA back at ya.
    
    If Saw's story of the origin of RUbgy is true, it just solidifies its
    standing as a preppy, upperclass, snob sport.  
    
    I know demographically, rugby is played by those who mostly fit the
    Yuppie or DINK category (in the US...)
    
    ;-)
    
    JD
    
8.1102CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsFri Oct 04 1991 13:2143
    
>    I know demographically, rugby is played by those who mostly fit the
>    Yuppie or DINK category (in the US...)


Wrong, Gaelic Football Breath!!!!


On a serious note, demographically, ruggers vary widely.  In fact,
if you wanted to start a business, a rugby team would typically
be a great place to start:  You'd probably have legal, accounting,
construction (all phases), MIS department, security, and groundskeeping
all covered right off the bat.

On our team we have:	

		lawyers
		accountants
		mechanical/chemical engineers
		heating/plumbing
                carpenters
		electricians
		landscapers
		teachers
		a State Police Trooper
		Salesmen
		a Physical Therapist
		a Chiropracter
		Software Engineer
		State Senate Aide

And that's just the short list.  

We have two English guys, two Irish guys, and the rest are Americans.


It really cuts across all types of people, and that's one reason why
I like it because the variety of  people really adds a certain something
to any of our functions.

We're also a fairly close knit group....

'Saw
8.1103Rugby - a ruffian's game played by gentlemenCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 13:3612
    It is true that in England, rugby is played in the private schools
    while soccer is played in the public schools.  However, most of the
    rugby clubs have their own youth programs which really leads to a
    diversity in team makeup down the line.  Now look at Wales and you'll
    see most of the teams are made up of farmers and coal miners.  Here in
    the US it makes sense that most of the players are college educated
    since the sport's roots are in the college campuses.  You don't find
    very many youth rugby programs in the schools or parks departments -
    yet.  The diversity in the US program stems from the recruiting efforts
    of the club in the gyms and bars and from people just walking by and
    taking an interest in that crazy game of kill the guy with the ball
    ;^).
8.1104WC ResultCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 13:454
    Latest World Cup news courtesy of the Rugby notesfile:
    
    Australia Wallabies 32
    Argentina Pumas     19
8.1105CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsFri Oct 04 1991 13:5311
When we played New York Rugby Club last spring, there was a fellow on their
team who really was trying to get a thing going whereby a few rugby
volunteers taught rugby to inner city kids.

He had a lot of reasons why, but he felt that the teamwork and the
cooperative concepts so necessary to good rugby would go a long way
towards helping these kids out.

Sounded like a good idea to me...

'Saw
8.1106RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOVon Ryan's ExpressFri Oct 04 1991 14:005
    I caint bnelieve the Argies could lose to some Australian Wallabies -
    the damn things are so small and fragile, and cute as heck.  Hell, you
    can feed em right out of your hand.  Amazing.
    
    JD
8.1107CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsFri Oct 04 1991 14:097
yeah, Mate, but when they box you with their paws, it hurts like hail 8^)


btw, nothing unexpected about that match...


'Saw
8.1108TSN WC Schedule WantedCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 14:246
    I need some help from our Canadian noters.  Bsed on a couple of
    responses in the Rugby Conference, it seems that TSN is carrying the
    World Cup Matches.  I'm pretty sure a sattelite dish in the US can pull
    in the Canadian feeds and my father-in-law has a dish and a VCR, so...
    
    Can someone post the TSN World Cup schedule?
8.1109CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsFri Oct 04 1991 15:1413
Hope someone can post the France-Romania score.

They should be kicking off at 2pm EST, and should be done by 4pm EST,
so I'd like to see a score before I head home 8^)


Also, I'd sincerely appreciate anyone posting the USA-ITALY score
and Scotland-Japan score from tomorrow.  (I'll dial in over the
weekend) The rest of tomorrow's games I don't care about as much...


thanks,
'Saw
8.1110CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 16:102
    'Saw, you'll proably have better luck checking for results in
    SHAWB1::RUGBY.
8.1111US WC TV coverage and US Ref in WC Pool MatchCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 04 1991 17:2110
    SportsChannel will be broadcasting 1 hour highlight programs on
    Saturday mornings at 10 EST starting Oct. 26 and running until Feb. 15. 
    Local cable affiliates have the final say in regards to scheduling, so
    check your local listings or call your local cable company for more
    information.
    
    US Referee Don Reordan will be officiating the Scotland Zimbabwe match. 
    Don is one of 17 referees named to the World Cup officiating squad and
    only 1 of three referees not from a country represented on the IRB
    Executive Council.
8.1112World Cup newsEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredMon Oct 07 1991 07:0164
8.1113CAM::WAYBill Swerski's Super Fans...Da BearsMon Oct 07 1991 09:5834
>    Italy       30   United States  9
    
    
>    I didn't see the Eagles' game, but reports indicate that the Italian
>    scrum and fly-half swung the match and that the Americans showed a
>    clear lack of imagination when it came to making good use of hard-won
>    possesion.
    

Wow.  This one hurt.  This was our *ONE* chance at a victory in this 
World Cup.  Now the only way we could obtain a victory would be to
stage, literally, the greatest rugby upset ever 8^(

There's been a lot of talk on our club lately about selections for the
Eagles and the way the Eagles play.  Those who know more than I point
to the fact that the largest part of the Eagles tend to be made up
of Pacific Territory ruggers, and that their hold on key positions is
very tight.

I don't doubt the clear lack of imagination either.  I've heard that
before, and when I saw the Scotland game I thought out back line
kind of weak.

Also mentioned has been this apparent US "letdown" about 60 minutes
in.  It's almost like they say "Ok, we've done better than expected
against these guys...let's just coast".


Well, from what I've heard (and it's just scuttlebutt) the All-Blacks won't
run the score up on the US, because they don't want to be accused of
embarassing lesser teams.  Therefore I'd say that tomorrow afternoon
they'll only put up around 50 points, to the Eagles' 6....

'Saw
8.1114Lost againEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredMon Oct 07 1991 10:0621
    
    Our second game of the season resulted in another defeat, but under
    very different circumstances ffrom last week's disgraceful punchup. 
    My faith in the game was restored by a thoroughly enjoyable match
    against a team who were clean, fast, fit, strong, and much better than us.
    But we never lost heart, and even though seven of our first-choice players 
    were injured, we managed to put more than 20 points on the board.
    
    We have the misfortune of meeting the three toughest teams in the
    division in our first three games. As captain, my main job at the
    moment is keeping club morale on course in preparation for the "easier"
    games later in the season. The younger players in particular seemed
    rather disheartened after yesterday's game. Personally, I thoroughly
    enjoyed it, even if we did lose. In any case, there's no disgrace in
    losing if you give everything you've got.
    
    Roll on next Sunday.
    
    Salut,
    Ed.
                       
8.1115CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneMon Oct 07 1991 10:1788
Well, onto subjects of lesser stature...


The Wanderers played Beacon Hill RFC Saturday at Colt Park in Hartford.
This game has always been the biggest for the Wanderers, as relations
between the two clubs go back a long way, and it's a fierce yet friendly
rivalry (as opposed to our bitter rivalry with Boston)

The game started out as a much more competitive game than the Wanderers
had seen in recent weeks.  Beacon was rucking and mauling well, and
the ref was perhaps the best in NERFU, so the game was well paced.
Beacon spent a lot of the first ten minutes in the Hartford end, but
thanks to our forwards and Glen's foot, no points went up on the board.

Soon the tide swung, and while Beacon was perhaps out-scrumming us,
and winning their fair share of rucks and mauls, they weren't doing
anything with the ball.  They also were NOT tackling well.

Early in the game Pete Velcojski went down with a shoulder injury.
Bob Hess, who's normally an 8man went in to replace him at second row.
The Wanderers are extremely deep at loose foward, in fact three are out
with injuries right now, yet we aren't feeling the pinch.

The Wanderers started scoring tries soon after.  While we were not scoring
at will, we were playing Hartford Wanderers rugby, and it started to show.
Al Dekin, our fullback scored a couple with some burst of pure speed through
the line.  Howie "Jet" Rosenburg scored two or three -- all he did was
cut in the afterburners and it was history.  (Of course, the overloads
did have something to do with it).

The fowards got their share, with both flankers scoring.  

Bob Hess made a sterling defensive play late in the game deep in our end.
With Beacon pushing towards the goal, the ball squirted loose at about the
five meter line.  Bob jumped on it and we rucked over really well.
Unfortunately for Bob, he took a blatant spike rake to the head, which
split the back of his ear.  After the game though, it looked as if
it had already started to heal up.

The final score was 52-4.  Beacon Hill did break our streak of three
games without giving up a try.


In case anyone is wondering, these high scores are not a case of running
up the score.  In the tie-breaking scheme of NERFU, points and number
of tries all figure, somewhere after head-to-head competition, in breaking
a tie.  Because you only play each team once, it is entirely possible and
probable to have teams tied at the end of the league season.

With that in mind, it was Hartford's third consecutive week of scoring
over 50 points in a match, and to date they have held the league opposition
to just 13 points.


B side played awesomely, winning 29 or so to 10.

C side.  Hmmm...  Well, C side face what was essentially Beacon's A side
again.  We played well, and were dominant in the lineouts.  We scrummed
well against them, and for the most part my job hooking was made
easy by their hooker.  He beat me to the ball almost every one of our
put-ins, but he'd only knock it back on our side.  We did win two
against the head by an 8 man push, so I can't take credit for that.

We rucked and mauled okay, but our back line was a tad sloppy.  Beacon's
wasn't, and except for one blown tackle, all of their tries came from
hellacious overloads.  The final score was 16-3.

As we came off the field, our coach (Count) told us "If you guys ever
played a legitimate C side, you'd kill 'em".

It has been tough, as I'm not accustomed to losing on C side.  But, playing
the higher caliber teams, even though they're tired, has been good for
our rugby.  I think we're rucking really well, and for the most part our
tackling has improved tremendously.

I'm at the point in the season where lots of little injuries are getting
annoying.  Perhaps the most annoying this week was that somehow, someone's
fingers ended up in my mouth in a ruck.  They were gone before I could
chomp down, but not before they could scrape up the inside of my mouth....

But at least today I feel more human than I did last week.  I'll be glad
to be able to play untaped, because I still can't carry the ball worth
shit......

Next week, Boston.


'Saw
8.1116BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Oct 07 1991 10:1929
	Our coach gets some kind of international radio station, and he said
the odds of the Eagles winning the world cup were posted at 5000:1.  Almost
seemed optimistic to me.  I think the level of play on the lower levels has
to go up before the National team can.  Plus funding.  Them women's Eagles
are going to suffer from both, especially the latter, in the next world cup.
	Having a large country also doesn't help.  The select side games I've
seen have always been a trifle disappointing, because I expect much more
from the combined talent than I sometimes see. A team really needs to practice
together to play well together, and that's a lot harder over 3000 miles.
Of course, Japan's tiny, but...
	'Saw, what is the relative strength of the Pacific Union?  
	Ed, thanks for the scores, especially for posting all of them and
giving comments on the games.

	We hosted our college tourney this weekend.  I think it went well,
the teams seemed to really enjoy it.  We assigned each team a liason, I
was the one for U. Vermont and they were a complete joy to work with.
They came in third, Dartmouth was second, and BC was first.  The Dartmouth
BC game was like watching ping-pong, there was way too much kicking.  In 
general, the teams played well and we were all impressed with the development
of college rugby.  Me especially, since my college team was awful.
	U. Conn. decided to go home and not attend Sunday, therefore forfeiting
the consolation finals and leaving U. Vm. without a game on Sunday.  So we put
together a side of rookies, out-of-position-players, and borrowed college 
players to give them a game.  It was a great time, I got to be captain and
the scrum half.  My passing could use some work, but the decision making was
good and everybody involved had a great time.

Rachael
8.1117CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneMon Oct 07 1991 10:4711
>	'Saw, what is the relative strength of the Pacific Union?  

They're good, don't get me wrong, but from what I've heard, the East has
given them all that they can handle and more of late.

I've heard that it's primarily political in nature.  

But, being new to rugby, I don't personally have a handle on all of the
ins and outs of the Politics of US Rugby....

'Saw
8.1118IAMOK::WASKOMMon Oct 07 1991 11:5113
    Ed -
    
    Like others - many thanks for the scores and comments.  Please keep it
    up.
    
    For those of you who want to see a really close, good match, and
    believe in planning ahead... The Oct 26 match between Hartford and
    Mystic River should be the one you see.  It will be played in Malden,
    MA.  (Do Hartford/Worcester for the partying and SPORTS comaraderie.)  
    Both clubs are apparently playing very, very well this fall, and this 
    one could decide the league championship.
    
    A&W
8.1119CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneMon Oct 07 1991 12:037
Mystics are gonna find out ONE thing:


		Payback's a BITCH....


'Saw
8.1120CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneMon Oct 07 1991 12:2112
The way I see it, IF Hartford gets past Mystic, and then can beat up 
Old Blue in the Northeasts, it'll be Disneyworld time.

I don't wish Mystics any hard luck, but I hope they have a few injuries along
the way.  I don't think that anyone in New England is as deep as we are.
I mean, when you have a flanker who played in the Final Four last year,
playing on your B side a good portion of the time, you know you are deep.

We're a little thin at prop, so let's hope that doesn't become an issue...


'Saw
8.1121WRFC vs BIRFCCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 07 1991 13:3334
    Worcester travelled to West Roxbury on Saturday to take on Maxwell
    League newcomers Boston Irish.  They were everthing we expected them to
    be.  Other than the couple of guys speaking with a thick Irish accent,
    there wasn't much playing experience on their side.  They were pretty
    athletic and scrappy.
    
    The day was warm and partly sunny.  The pitch was in good shape, but
    tiny.  Lineouts were the order of the day.  Boston came out strong and
    actually controlled the first 10 minutes of the game.  Worcester
    finally woke up and started taking control of the match.  One of the
    amazing things about the day was that despite the narrow pitch, the
    WRFC wings got a lot of ball.  In fact, one of our wings scored 3
    tries.  Final score was WRFC 51, Boston Irish RFC 9.  As 'Saw said, the
    way the league is structured you need to score as many points as you
    can each week.
    
    One of the perks about playing on the first side is that you can lounge
    around the sideline, have a few beers, and cheer on the B-side after you
    finish the A-side match.  I was really looking forward to doing that
    this week.  Unfortunately the ref from the first game chose not to
    officiate the second and the Boston Irish didn't have a backup plan. 
    Our coach was absent and a couple of other guys who have reffed on
    occasion were too banged up to take the pitch, so somehow I found
    myself on the pitch with a whistle in my hand.  With the inexperience
    of the Boston Irish B-side the game was quite sloppy and I probably
    would have run out of breath from blowing the whistle.  Instead I
    simply played the long advantage and wasn't too picky and let the game
    flow.
    
    The B-side pack was a bit depleted this week with some guys not
    available due to either personal committments or being moved to the
    A-side.  The backs helped pick up the slack, however.  Worcester
    controlled just about every facet of the match and emerged victorious
    by a score of 23-0.
8.1122CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneMon Oct 07 1991 18:2210
Congrats there, Mac.  You're 2-1 now?

We've got two Irish guys on our team, now.  Peter Dolan and John Gilmore.
I get such a kick out of them, and they're both super guys.

I'm hoping to round out the British contingent with a Scotsman and
a Welshman, but it might take a while 8^) 8^) 8^)


'Saw
8.1123CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 07 1991 18:265
8.1124Unless they be from Ulster, 8^)CTHQ3::LEARYMon Oct 07 1991 18:276
    'Saw,
    Tell yer two Irishmen about "rounding out the British contingent" and
    see what their reaction is. 8^) 8^)
    
    MikeL
     
8.1125CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneTue Oct 08 1991 10:0930
Mac,

You guys should handle Old Gold fairly well.  They've probably got an
attitude, but they're not much of a rugby club.  Amoskeag gave us
a much better game than Old Gold ever could have hoped to, and
they could barely field three sides.



Mike,

HAHAHAHAHA....  They're both pretty cool.  John has been in the States
for quite a while I think, because his oldest son is wicked into baseball.
John was showing us one day how to bowl in cricket.  (And you think
pitching is hard!).

Peter's been here for a little over a year, but he's settled in nicely.

Both know I'm of Scottish descent, so they kid me about that from
time to time....

Mike, our new hooker, (the Englishman) has been here for two years.
In the Beacon Hill game, he started wailing on some guy, and a guy
from Beacon Hill turns to a couple of us and says "What kind of rugby
do you call that???"  We looked at the guy and said "Hey, he's just
over from England..."  When we told Mike afterwards he almost pissed
himself....


'Saw
8.1126USA 0-2 in WC competitionCAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneTue Oct 08 1991 11:5217
Well, it's over:


	New Zealand 46  USA 6


Without a doubt the All-Blacks chose not to run up the score.  I don't
question for a second the fact that the All-Blacks could probably have
put up 70+ points on this Eagles squad...

Oh well.  Our chance at any victory in the World Cup went away when
Italy beat us.

I think this Eagles squad needs a little shaking up.....


'Saw
8.1127CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneTue Oct 08 1991 13:441
England just demolished Italy, 36-6
8.1128CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneTue Oct 08 1991 14:4820
New Pool 1 Standings
---------------------

New Zealand	2 0 0
England 	1 1 0
Italy		1 1 0
USA		0 2 0  8^(



Seems like this is a VERY poor showing for the Eagles this year.

I dont' have any details on the NZ disaster, but I'm more inclined
to think that it wasn't a case of the US holding them to just 46,
more a case of New Zealand not wanting to embarass a hapless club..

I hope that perhaps this is the wakeup call that USA Rugby needs!


'Saw
8.1129Bad NewsEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredWed Oct 09 1991 07:2249
    Y'all,
    
    Here are some details on the Eagles games that Frank asked for in
    SHAWB1::RUGBY.
    
    French TV did not screen the game so I haven't actually seen anything,
    but reports in this morning's press indicate that the Blacks were well
    below par and that the Eagles just tried to limit the damage.
    Apparently the game was punctuated by gross handling errors by both
    sides and inaccurate kicking. The Blacks ran in eight tries and the
    Eagles notched up two penalties. The journalist from L'Equipe seemed to
    think that the Blacks would have doubled the score on a good day.
    
    As regards the US team, the terms that keep on coming back are
    "predictable", "stereotyped", and "uninspired". I know little about US
    rugby, but maybe you have a word or two to say about three-quarter play
    stateside? Who manages the team? What is the US approach to play in the
    three-quarters? It seems to me that your team is a mirror image of
    teams like the Fidjians, who are weak up front but
    inspired and, sometimes a bit zany, when it comes to running with the
    ball. The same criticism has been levelled at the Canadian team. Maybe
    you aspire to emulate the English model of all-conquering forwards with
    little or nothing to speak of beyond the flyhalf. Correct me if I'm
    wrong.
    
    The French beat the Fidjians last night by 33-9 in a thoroughly
    entertaining game.
    
    Salut,
    Ed.
    
    PS. The full gory details
    
    NZ 46 US 6 (20-3 at halftime)
    
    NZ: 8 tries (Earl (22), Wright (25, 29, 80), Purvis (45), Timu (53),
    Tuigamala (73), Innes (78). Two penalities (15, 39) and 4 conversions
    by Preston.
    US: 2 penalties (35, 56) by Williams.
    
    NZ:
    Wright, Tuigamala, Innes, Machill, Timu, Preston, Bachop, Jones, Earl,
    A. Whetton, G. Whetton, Jones, Purvis, Fitzpatrick, Mcdowell
    
    US:
    Sheehy, Hein, Williams, Burke, Whitaker, O'Brien, Pidcock, Lipman,
    Rindell, Sawicki, Tunacliffe, Swords, Mottram, Johnson, Lippert
    (replaced by Manga after 50)
                                
8.1130CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneWed Oct 09 1991 10:0663
>    
>    French TV did not screen the game so I haven't actually seen anything,
>    but reports in this morning's press indicate that the Blacks were well
>    below par and that the Eagles just tried to limit the damage.
>    Apparently the game was punctuated by gross handling errors by both
>    sides and inaccurate kicking. The Blacks ran in eight tries and the
>    Eagles notched up two penalties. The journalist from L'Equipe seemed to
>    think that the Blacks would have doubled the score on a good day.

Rumors that I've heard via a long grapevine from England state that the
All-Blacks are very conscious of "running up the score" in this World Cup.

    
>    As regards the US team, the terms that keep on coming back are
>    "predictable", "stereotyped", and "uninspired". I know little about US
>    rugby, but maybe you have a word or two to say about three-quarter play
>    stateside? Who manages the team? What is the US approach to play in the
>    three-quarters? It seems to me that your team is a mirror image of
>    teams like the Fidjians, who are weak up front but
>    inspired and, sometimes a bit zany, when it comes to running with the
>    ball. The same criticism has been levelled at the Canadian team. Maybe
>    you aspire to emulate the English model of all-conquering forwards with
>    little or nothing to speak of beyond the flyhalf. Correct me if I'm
>    wrong.

Again, I haven't played long enough to be any kind of authority on this
but here's a few things I see (and have heard).

Personally, I don't think the Eagles have any kind of consistent style.
The report on the Italy game that I received from our Eagle flyhalf
(Glen Judge) who wasn't selected for the WC and called home (England)
to get the report was this:  the Eagle forwards won a lot of ball,
but the back did NOTHING with it.  DeJong did no tactical kicking,
and every back row play was a crash.

From what I've seen, the American's experience with American football
hurts their back line play.  They almost seem to hold on to it far too
long, instead of instinctively looking to pass (like the Scots did
back in May against the Eagles).

The Eagles are an *old* team.  Their average age is less only than England.


There is a large opinion that the Eagles World Cup squad is not the 
best 15 that America could put forth.  There's been grousing that selections
are highly political and NOT motivated by what's best for American rugby.

Specific mention has been made that two of our flankers have very little
rugby experience.  (I don't know if that's true or not)
    


Those are just some of the opinions I've formed and have heard.  Perhaps
Mac or Rachael could give some more...


Thanks Ed, for the report.  I'm very disturbed that we have NO coverage
over here.  If it weren't for folks like you, we'd be up the creek without
a paddle...


'Saw

8.1131Latest scoresEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredThu Oct 10 1991 06:5829
    
    Mes chers amis,
    
    Here are yesterday's scores:
    
    Group 2
    
    Ireland 32 Japan 16
    Scotland 51 Zimbabwe 12
    
    
    Group 3
    
    Australia 9 Western Samoa 3
    Wales 16 Argentina 7
    
    
    Group 4
    
    Canada 19 Roumania 11
    
    
    England, New Zealand, Ireland, Scotland, France, Canada, and Australia
    are already qualified. The only place still up for grabs will be
    decided by the games Wales-Australia and Samoa-Argentina.
    
    Salut,
    Ed.
    
8.1132CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneThu Oct 10 1991 10:0614
>    England, New Zealand, Ireland, Scotland, France, Canada, and Australia
>    are already qualified. The only place still up for grabs will be
>    decided by the games Wales-Australia and Samoa-Argentina.
    
Thanks Ed.

Just a sanity check:  England qualifies with one loss because they've
won the head-to-head with Italy, and the best they could both finish
is 2-1?

Looks like England will be traveling to Paris....


'Saw
8.1133Point takenEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredThu Oct 10 1991 10:477
    'Saw
    
    You're quite right. England are not yet definitively qualified. If
    Italy beat the All Blacks by a wide margin, then Italy will qualify...
    I think we can assume that England will scrape through.
    
    Ed.
8.1134CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneThu Oct 10 1991 10:5211
>    You're quite right. England are not yet definitively qualified. If
>    Italy beat the All Blacks by a wide margin, then Italy will qualify...
>    I think we can assume that England will scrape through.

But I thought on the basis of Head-to-Head (England beating Italy 36-6)
that that would break the tie, and thus that meant England was in.

Do you know, off hand, what the tie-breakers are?  I know that number
of tries scored is part of it somewhere...

'Saw
8.1135CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneThu Oct 10 1991 10:5413
Also, tomorrow, England beats the USA fairly big (have the Eagles even 
scored a try in WC competition?  NOT)....

New Zealand takes out Italy no problem.


I am almost ashamed of the Eagles showing in this world cup.  Granted,
they were in perhaps the toughest division of all (up against the defending
WC champs, and the Five Nations champs) but I think this squad has really
belied all of the good growth in rugby in the USA.....8^(


'Saw
8.1136BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 10 1991 11:0113
	Ed, thanks for the scores.  I've been extracting those and the ones
from shawb1::rugby, and giving them to my coach (Welsh) and mailing them
to my rugby buddy at MIT (source of my most excellent new jersey).  Our
coach especially loves the commentary you and the others provide, I think
it's special for him to hear someone talk intelligently about the game after
his living in the US for so long.

Saw,
	If you are ashamed, be ashamed of the administration, not the players.
I'm sure they're all doing their best.  I'm sure that's what you meant anyways.

Rachael
8.1137CAM::WAYWith Malice Toward NoneThu Oct 10 1991 11:2015
>	If you are ashamed, be ashamed of the administration, not the players.
>I'm sure they're all doing their best.  I'm sure that's what you meant anyways.

Yeah, that's what I'm bummed about.  I mean, with a country as large as ours
and with a plethora of clubs out there, I'm sure that we could really
put together a fine team of ruggers who could be "second-echelon" 
competitive.  It'll be a while before we can compete with the Englands
and the New Zealands...

Oh well...

'Saw



8.1138BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Oct 11 1991 10:2633
	Well, you've all heard of wearing your heart on your sleeve, I
can now wear my ego on my back.  We just got our new jackets, they're
crew jackets with all the flaps, etc.  On the back, in letters about 3-4 inches
high, it says "Beantown Rugby" (Rugby is under Beantown), and on the front
there's stitching which has a ball, above which it says "Beantown RFC", and
below which it says "National Champions".  Red jackets with white letters,
and blue matching windpants.  (Red and Blue are our colors)  (Royal and
Scarlet if you want to sound fashionable)
	Cyndy and I were talking about how we're going to have our first
two hard games this weekend, after not having a challenge since last May,
and we'd best win if we're all going to be wearing these obnoxious jackets.
Actually, even if FSU beats us, they still can't take away the fact that
we walked over them last Spring when it really counted.  So there.

	I finally remembered to bring in our schedule, as we swing into
the second third of the season.  Here goes:

10/12  	Philly Tourney 		away
10/19	Boston 			home (15th ann. match, much hoopla & old girls!)
10/26	Hartford		away
11/02	Washington		home
11/08	USARE Camp		Bethlehem, PA
11/16	Region 1 playoff	??
11/23	Georgia Ruggerfest	Atlanta
11/30	Thanksgiving, no game
12/7	Territorials		Baton Rouge

I'm so happy I'm flying to Philly, even though it will cost me...  I've
done more "weekends" to Philly and Monmouth, NJ, then I care to think about,
and I just can't stand being at work at 7:30 Monday morning after driving
7 hours each way and attending a tourney.

Rachael
8.1139Worcester @ HBSCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 11 1991 12:327
    Worcester is travelling to Cambridge tomorrow to take on Harvard
    Business School RFC.  Despite their size advantage in the pack, we
    handled them pretty easily last Spring in the New England tournament. 
    It will be interesting to see if they've picked up any new players.  We
    should do pretty well tomorrow.  Practices this week have been pretty
    intense.  My stint on the A-side was shortlived.  I'm back with the
    undefeated B-side at lock this week.
8.1140BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Oct 11 1991 13:175
Mac,
	Isn't that the "Hahvahd B-school"?  Don't want to sound like a 
plebian, don't you know...

Rachael
8.1141CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 11 1991 13:5426
We play Boston tomorrow.  I blew off practice last night, as I've been
fighting off this hellacious cold or flu or whatever.  All my joints
feel like they've got ground glass in them...

From what I hear, a celebrity panel of Don King, Howard Cosell and
George Foreman will be at Colt Park to score the inevitable pugilistic
sideshow that happens every time we play Boston.

I just hope we get a good ref.

I don't know if I got selected, but I'll go play whereever they want
me....


Oh, by the way, the doc officially told me yesterday I can start playing
again in 10 days 8^)

The best part about that is that I can get back to the gym in 10 days
too.  That is one thing that DOES hurt my hand, and I hope 10 days
is enough time for it not to be so sore when i try to lift....


later,
'Saw

PS  Good luck Mac and Rachael...
8.1142CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 11 1991 15:4519
Well, the US made it a clean sweep in the World Cup, losing
to England earlier today at Twickenham.

Final score:  England 37  USA 9


I don't have the score breakdown, but I'd bet a week's pay that
the US didn't find the try zone.  If so, that's also a clean sweep
for this WC.

A sad day for US rugby, folks.


One can only hope that in the next four years, the politics and 
prejudices that surround the selection process for our national squad
get resolved.


'Saw
8.1143BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Oct 11 1991 17:4022
	I still think it's got to be more the admin than the actual bodies.
There's no reason why any group of eligible players from the US can't make
a better stand then they have, even if they're not the absolute best.
	Do you know what I mean?  Like, even if they picked the #3 and #4 
flankers instead of #1 and #2, those players would still be among the best
in the nation and should be able to produce.  But the team needs to play
together and to have a game plan, and the US reportedly seems to lack that.
	Either they need more time together, or the coaches are not making them
cohesive in the time they have.  Or perhaps the players are being too
arrogant, thinking they can play their game instead of going with the Eagles'
plan.
	To have success in rugby, you need players who are good enough, and
you need a game.  The US, even with politics, must surely have good enough
players out there.  But they don't have a game; either the players are not
making enough of an effort to understand the team strategy, or it's not
being made clear to them.
	I don't follow the mens' game that much, so maybe I'm way off base, but
just from what I know of the game and high level play in general, that's what
I think.

Rachael

8.1144CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 11 1991 17:5618
One of the biggest drawbacks I've heard about our men is that they
have this mindset from about the 60th minute on, of "okay, we gave them
a good game, that's all anyone expects, so that's that"

One other drawback is that in this country we still have to think rugby,
whereas the Scots, the English etc etc etc just DO it, having done it
for so many years.

A group of British schoolchildren interviewed on CBS morning news this
am said "The Americans are so slow, we could beat them".  They weren't
referring to speed (Kevin Higgins runs a 6.5 60 or better) but to
rugby "instinct".....


I guess that stuff just takes time....


'Saw
8.1145SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 11 1991 17:584
    The US development plan seems to have gone out the window.  They
    started to put together a US B team to look at a larger talent pool and
    to get some players international experience but that seems to have
    gone nowhere.  The US is the oldest team in the World Cup.
8.1146BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Oct 11 1991 18:4410
	I see what you mean about slow, Saw.  Watching the colleges last
weekend, there were so many talented atheletes that could run me into the
ground, but their games were SO SLOW!   It would have been a tackling
field day  for me.
	I think that comes down to decision making, which comes down to
experience.

	Have a nice weekend all.  Good luck in your games.

Rachael
8.1147Back from the deadEDUOZ::THURGARMon Oct 14 1991 03:2865
    Go away for a week and spend a day reading all the new replies.
    
    Firstly re: .1093
    David Campese threw a blind pass on the Australian goal line in the
    third test against the British Lions in Sydney. The Australian full
    back Greg Martin actually called for the ball. Campo turned it inside
    without looking and the pass was intercepted. Try and game. He has
    lived with it ever since. He is known as a great attacking footballer,
    except when he starts thinking. Instinct. He scares the sh*t out of me
    every time he catches the ball, he may run from his own 22, not make
    touch with a kick, throw a stupid pass or score a brilliant try. So far
    in the World Cup he has been very reliable. Known for not having his
    brain in any way connected to his legs.
    
    After reading all the replies on US rugby, here are my thoughts.
    Politics is always going to be there, but you must start afresh. It
    helps if rugby is in your blood and there is some tradition (look at
    the Welsh and there current rebuilding). I do not know about the US
    being in the toughest group. Should have seen the way the Argies and
    West Samoa played, it hurt just watching some of the tackles. The only
    decent player I have seen in the US team is one of your breakaways.
    Until changes are made you will never go any further.
    
    Somebody said something about bowling a cricket ball. Once again it is
    very easy if you have been brought up with it. I was once timed in the
    high 80's (mph) and missed selection in the Australian youth team.
    Living across the road from a school with rugby grounds and cricket
    fields was the best thing that could ever happen to you. Live eat and
    breathe sport (tennis,basketball,cricket,rugby,swimming).
    
    Now onto the World Cup
    
    - Western Samoa and Canada are the two surprises. both have played
    really well and have impressed. If Canada play so well and controlled
    why cant the US take a leaf (no plug intended) out of there book. The
    Western Samoans are dangerous. They play like the All Blacks but tackle
    harder. They wiped out Wales in a great game, Wales showed a lot of
    courage. The tackling was ferocious. Excellent game. Against Aust the
    game was played in torrential rain and it was a very hard game, which
    maybe West Samoa sould have won. Experience got Aust through. We lost
    Nick Farr Jones (capt and half back) when he tried to take on the
    Samoan pack and lost - medial damage to his knee (may be back for the
    quarter finals). Peter Slattery the replacement is a great half back
    but does not have the leadership skills of NFJ. NFJ has always, since
    school thought he was invincible, he now knows he is not.
    Aust has played scrappily but won all games. They are starting to play
    themselves into form. The are not as sharp as they were earlier this
    year.
    The All Blacks fall into the same boat of winning ugly, but looking
    better each time - they need a real hard game very soon to sharpen
    themselves up.
    Forget about England,Scotland and Ireland as they are not in the same
    class. On there day they could cause some trouble - but have not shown
    enough at this stage.
    France are the team that worry me. Winning effectively and putting
    there game together nicely.
    
    Rachael and Saw, I may be able to do some deal with the jerseys (you
    may end up with 2nd hand jerseys used in the WC) at no cost. Keep your
    fingers crossed
    
    Could do with some sleep. Between the baseball playoffs and the WC
    sleep is a thing of the past.
    
    Madge
8.1148CAM::WAYParty on, GarthMon Oct 14 1991 09:5011
>    Rachael and Saw, I may be able to do some deal with the jerseys (you
>    may end up with 2nd hand jerseys used in the WC) at no cost. Keep your
>    fingers crossed

I've got me fingers and toes crossed!  8^)


And thanks for the stuff about Campese.  Now I know what the hoo-hah was
about....

'Saw
8.1149Tough day in Hartford....CAM::WAYParty on, GarthMon Oct 14 1991 10:09108
Well, Saturday was a VERY bad, sad day in Hartford.  The final of the
Boston game was 23-12, but that's only a small part of the story.

The game started out decently enough.  Boston was FAR superior in the
scrums.  I personally have thought that the Wanderers as a club have spent
way too much time rucking and mauling this season, at this point going over
the same stupid drills ad nauseum, and not enough time scrumming.

It seems our scrum sled was broken, and we're still waiting for a part
of it to be welded.  We haven't done a lot of live scrummaging either.

There were a couple of other problems too, in that our second rows hadn't
worked together since the start of the season.  Brian Shell was making
a second comeback from his knee injury and he was working with Waz.
Pete the Dick was away on business this week, and he and Waz had been
sharing the duties while Brian was injured.

At any rate, Boston was beating us up pretty easily in the scrums in the
first twenty minutes, but the game was close.  We were overcoming the
scrum problems, little by little.

And then, for all intents and purposes, the game was decided by the referee.

At one end of a ruck, I saw Waz punch up some guy.  Stupid move, but
not untypical in the Boston game.  The ref, who'd been anal retentive
all day, tossed Waz.  At that point, all of the ground we'd gained in
overcoming the scrummaging problem was lost, as our scrums were down
a man.  ( I had thought there was a rule that if one of your forwards
gets tossed, on your put in the other team must give up a man in the
scrum, but I guess I'm mistaken, or it's been changed)...

At half time the score stood Boston 16-12.  Hartford put up a valiant
effort in the second half, as we have much better backs that Boston, but
being down a forward cost us in the lineouts somewhat.  Also, every single
time we threw a long lineout, the ref made sure he whistled it for not
in straight.

We came closest with about 15 minutes left, but after that another Boston
try and a penalty sealed the win.


Without a doubt it was the worst officiated game I have ever seen.  The
ref should have been wearing a black jersey (Boston's color) for all 
the impartiality he showed.

Granted, Waz did a stupid thing.  However, at this point in the season, with
two undefeated teams playing each other, most other refs would have
given a warning, and called the Captains for a conference.  It was early
enough in the game that that might have solved the problem.

What really hurt was five minutes later, a Boston player blatantly stomped
a Hartford guy who'd made a tackle, right in front of the ref.  No call.
Stomping, like punching, is an offense that'll get you sent off.

Late in the game, (like less than 3 minute left) he did send off a Boston
player in a token gesture.


In talking with the Boston players afterwards, they were upset.  They said
they'd have rather have played and beaten Hartford 15-on-15 than have had
the ref decide it for them.


The B side game was not much better.  There the ref never had control
from the outset.  I guess there was a ton of fighting, because after
we (C side) had warmed up and came back, both teams were down two men,
another fight broke out, and the ref whistled no-side, telling the
teams to go fight on the sidelines....


Our C game was yet another rag tag jumble of guys.  Boston put out a very
well trained, young stud C side, mostly college kids recently graduated
I'd say.  Their hooker was very good, a former ERU College All-Star.
He took two of my hooks, but I did manage one of his.

The young college studs aren't as "friendly and sportsmanlike" on the
pitch as some of the older guys are.  I guess they have a lot to prove
and they don't tend to get into the fun of it.  He did tell me "good strike"
when I took his hook though.

They won, but not by a whole lot.  I came the closes I ever have to scoring
a try.  Late in the game, big John Gilmore, our 8man, took the ball off the
back of a ruck and was stopped half a yard out.  I dove for the ball to
drive it over, but one of our props, Dan, beat me by the slimmest of margins.


Our "British contingent" is getting bigger.  Our fullback for the C side
game was a fellow from western Wales.  I hope he comes out again because
he has a great foot, and a really good sense of the game.


Congrats go out to Boston, much as it pains me to say it, for they
swept us, and it's been a long time since any team could ride out of 
Hartford with a broom attached to their mast.

Boston is 5-0, I'm sure Mystics are 5-0 after playing Providence.  Hartford
is 4-1, and our playoff hopes seemingly went out the window on the anal
retentive whim of a ref who wanted to make the game happen, rather than
control the game.....



The brightest note is that the Old Boys ran their undefeated streak to
something like 23 or 24 beating the Boston Old Boys......


(sigh)
'Saw
8.1150BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Oct 14 1991 10:2248
	Madge, I'll keep fingers, toes, and possibly my hair crossed.  (It's
pretty out of control anyways, I don't know if I could tell the difference...)
	I've certainly learned a lot about international rugby this month.
Lot's of really interesting stuff written.  I talked to one of my teammates
who was on the Eagles for a long time about what's happening with them.  
She said two things, 1) The USRFU is not spending any $ on developing the
game locally, they are only concentrating on the National team, and 2) they
waste money, some of the airfares they pay are outrageous, etc.  This is what
she's been told by friends of hers that have played for the men's eagles.
	
	As for game wrapup for the weekend... I still don't know how 'Saw
and Mac come in here and give play by play, I just have a feel for how
our games went but not that detailed.
	
	We traveled to Philadelphia and had four matches.  The first match
was against SouthEast, which used to be a very strong team but has come down
a ways.  They still have some talented players, however, and picked up a very
good back.  The game was uneventful, OK but not brilliant, but good for our
first real competion of the season.  We won 20 or 30 something to something
low, 0 or 3...  
	The second match was agains Gotham, a team from (obviously)
New York that used to be terrible but was actually fairly decent.  I don't
remember the score, either, it was about the same as the first match.  We
had almost a completely new side out, I played #8 and had a great game.  I
love playing #8, it absolutely feels the best to me.  Too bad I'm so short.  :^)
For the first time this season I played #8 behing good locks, and we won
some nice ball, with good movement off the back row.
	The third match was against Monmouth (NJ), and it was a very punishing
match.  They were not incredibly good, but they sure hit us hard.  I played
flanker in that match, and I got pounded.  We played well in the first half,
they backed off and let things get really sloppy in the second half for
a while.  The game was mostly fought in the forwards.  The score was 24-0 at
the half, and 28-0 final.
	The finals was really the big match of the season, played against our
archrivals Florida State (FSU).  We generally split games with them, although
we've managed to beat them for about two years now.  They were second at
Nationals last year, and have won it four times to our five.  In addition, 
they were supplemented by two Eagle locks and another huge forward.  These
women were, at a guess, 6'2", 6'3", and 6'6", and mobile.  Honestly.  They
gave us a bigger challenge then our pack's seen in a long time, but we still
took about half the lineouts, and won our scrums.  We scored early on a kick,
then a try in the corner, then fought like hell for the rest of the match.
The halves were 35 minutes, and we spent most of the second half within or
near our 22.  Disappointing that we couldn't move the ball out of our end,
but absolutely heroic defense in holding them scoreless.  The final score
was 7-0.

Rachael
8.1151CAM::WAYParty on, GarthMon Oct 14 1991 11:1413
Pairing for the Quarter Finals of the World Cup:


		Scotland   v.  Western Samoa  @  Pontypridd, Wales

		France     v.  England 	      @  Paris, France

		Australia  v.  Ireland	      @  Dublin, Ireland

		N. Zealand v.  Canada 	      @  Lille, France


'Saw
8.1152WRFC vs HBSRFCSMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 14 1991 12:0430
    Just my luck.  Rachael compliments me on my post match reporting, and I
    don't have much to say this week.  My recall of the games is a bit
    muddled probably because they were both sloppy.
    
    Worcester played Harvard Business School on the banks of the Charles on
    what proved to be a nice day weatherwise despite the weatherman's dire
    predictions.  The A-side discovered early they were in for a battle
    from the opening kickoff.  HBS kicked the ball directly out of bounds
    and Worcester was awarded a scrum at midfield.  HBS won the ball
    against the head.  Our best jumper was outsized by at least 2 inches. 
    It looked like it was going to be a long day in the set pieces. 
    Worcester staked itself to an early lead despite committing several
    penalties.  Fortunately the HBS kicker was 1-3 in his first half
    attempts.  Worcester was able to more or less hold thier own against
    the bigger HBS pack.  What we do give up in size we do make up in
    quickness and fitness as evidenced by our loose play.  We took a lead
    into halftime, but HBS came roaring back in the second half and their
    kicker found his foot again.  Worcester was able to score a try late in
    the game to seal a 22-12 victory.
    
    The B-side match featured a strong Worcester pack and a makeshift
    backline vs. a mixture of HBS A and B side players.  The Worcester pack
    absolutely dominated the play and if the backline had been able to
    capitalize on even half of the ball they got, the game would have been
    a runaway.  As it was, it was the closest game the B-side had been
    involved in all season.  The outcome of the game was in question the
    whole match.  Worcester was able to come back, however and keep their
    hopes of an undefeated season alive as they won 17-16.
    
    
8.1153CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 14 1991 14:109
    'Saw, are you sure about Scotland playin W.Somoa in Wales?  I would
    have thought the match would be played in Murrayfield (Edinburgh,
    Scotland).
    
    Madge, I'd appreciate it if you could include the original SPORTS
    rugger (me!) in your WC distribution list.
    
    Tough break for Hartford.  Perhaps the ref knowing the reputation of
    the Hartford/Boston rivalry decided to take control of the game early?
8.1154CAM::WAYParty on, GarthMon Oct 14 1991 14:5538
>    'Saw, are you sure about Scotland playin W.Somoa in Wales?  I would
>    have thought the match would be played in Murrayfield (Edinburgh,
>    Scotland).

Damn, I'm gonna need glasses, I guess.  I copied the wrong line there
Mac.  Argentina vs W. Samoa was in Pontypridd on the Rugby Calendar, and
I got the wrong line
    
>    Madge, I'd appreciate it if you could include the original SPORTS
>    rugger (me!) in your WC distribution list.

Me too 8^)
    

>    Tough break for Hartford.  Perhaps the ref knowing the reputation of
>    the Hartford/Boston rivalry decided to take control of the game early?


I don't know.  If that were the case, then how could he have let the
stomping incident go?  It happened right in front of him, he couldn't
have missed it if he wanted to, yet he chose to let that go.  

Granted, Waz was stupid to do what he did, and if it were the first league
game of the season, I could see it, but at this point in the season, where
two of the three undefeated teams left are playing each other, I'd think
that you could start with a warning.


The ref was a former Boston rugger (bald guy, wears a Chicago Lions
hat a lot, and his touch flags are blue with owls on them) and the
Boston guys were telling me that he usually screws them in trying to
appear unbiased.  They were more surprised than anyone about him sending
Waz off.


I dunno,  I guess it's just the way the chips fall....8^(

'Saw
8.1155IAMOK::WASKOMMon Oct 14 1991 15:2135
    I was in Hartford Saturday, too.  The ref should have thrown a Boston
    player at the same time he threw Waz.  For once I saw the whole thing. 
    It was in the middle of a maul, and the Boston guy got Waz square in
    the stomach with a good punch.  However, he came in from the *inside*
    of the pack, and threw the punch underhanded and between two other
    players.  Very hard to see.  Waz came back with a flurry of overhand 
    shots - at least two and probably three connected.  Pretty flagrant. 
    Given that the pack was already having problems (they moved backwards
    all day, even on the occasions that they won the ball) it was the last
    thing Hartford needed.
    
    The Boston players were unbelieveably up for this game, while Hartford
    for whatever reason seemed a little flat.  One of the Boston players
    told me that they rented a couple of hotel rooms in Hartford and got
    the whole team together for pre-game speechifying and spirit building. 
    Apparently last springs NE Tournament loss to Hartford really bothered
    them.
    
    At this point, the best thing to hope for is that Mystic River beats
    Boston, and Hartford beats Mystic River.  That gives each of the top
    three teams one loss, and tie-breakers take over.  Providence is the
    wild-card in that scenario, since no one I've talked to knows how they
    are doing.  
    
    
    Last three weeks of the season pairing look like this:
    
    10/12  Hartford v Boston           Mystic River v Providence
    10/19  Hartford v Providence       Mystic River v Boston
    10/26  Hartford v Mystic River     Providence v Boston
    
    As far as I know, all four teams were undefeated going into the 10/12
    round of games.  Nothing like a close race to keep things interesting!
    
    A&W
8.1156CAM::WAYParty on, GarthMon Oct 14 1991 15:4941
>    It was in the middle of a maul, and the Boston guy got Waz square in
>    the stomach with a good punch.  However, he came in from the *inside*
>    of the pack, and threw the punch underhanded and between two other
>    players.  Very hard to see.  Waz came back with a flurry of overhand 
>    shots - at least two and probably three connected.  Pretty flagrant. 
>    Given that the pack was already having problems (they moved backwards
>    all day, even on the occasions that they won the ball) it was the last
>    thing Hartford needed.
    
Well, knowing that Waz played for Boston last fall, there is no doubt
in my mind that the offending Boston rugger threw the punch knowing
full well what Waz's reaction would be.  Waz is as predictable and volatile
as a fission reactions -- pull out the control rods and you get a meltdown.

I do agree that the ref should have been looking to even the tables, if 
not then, then right afterwards.  I still cannot believe that the stomping
I saw take place right in his field of vision (it had to if the a__hole
was watching for the ball like he should have been) was not enough to get
a Boston rugger tossed.


As to Hartford coming out flat, I think there's a couple of reasons.
First, when you're undefeated, and the smallest margin of victory
you've had has been 28 points, then there's an inevitable let down.

Also, all weak the scrumming was bad.  Count diddled around with what
was happening in the scrum, and I'm not sure if that was the right
thing to do.  We've definitely missed the scrum sled on EVERY side this
season.


Boston had plenty of reason to want this game more.  The one bright
spot is that Hartford will not forget this spanking, and the next time
the two teams play there will be blood and honor to be played for...


As to that ref, well, I won't go into that too much.  It was the WORST,
absolute WORST display of officiating I've ever seen....


'Saw
8.1157WC updateEDUOZ::THURGARTue Oct 15 1991 00:4533
    Predictions:
    
    Western Samoa beat Scotland by 3 points (huge upset)
    France walk over the Poms by at least 9 points
    Aust beat Ireland by 6 points (unless it rains then it could be real
    close)
    All Blacks beat Canade by 30 points.
    
    Out of todays paper:
    
    - Ireland are praying for rain against Aust
    - All Blacks 11-8 favourites Aust at 2-1
    - Roebuck may take the goal kicks for Aust instead of Lynagh
    - Bob Dwyer said that Ireland are a very good attacking side
    - All Blacks complain over whistle happy refs killing the game by not
    allowing them to flow. This causes 10 man rugby - BORING. The ruck has
    disappeared and too many penalties.
    - All Blacks made too many mistakes Vs Italy and Itlay gave them a real
    scare. NZ are missing Michael Jones who cannot play on Sundays
    (religious beliefs)
    - First send off of the tournament West Samoa V Argies for fighting
    (two punches thrown - overreaction by the ref)
    
    That is all.
    
    What is meant by my WC distribution list ??
    
    Please explain as I am only a dumb Aussie (who has played hooker,
    breakaway, lock, and five eight).
    
    
    Madge
   
8.1158CAM::WAYParty on, GarthTue Oct 15 1991 02:264
>    - First send off of the tournament West Samoa V Argies for fighting
>    (two punches thrown - overreaction by the ref)
    
Could it be the same....?   NAH...
8.1159CAM::WAYParty on, GarthTue Oct 15 1991 10:0019
Final Standings for the WC Opening Rounds:


Pool 1        W   L   T               Pool 3       W   L   T
------        -   -   -               -------      -   -   -
New Zealand   3   0   0               Australia    3   0   0
England       2   1   0               W. Samoa     2   1   0
Italy         1   2   0               Wales        1   2   0
USA           0   3   0               Argentina    0   3   0



Pool 2        W   L   T               Pool 4       W   L   T
------        -   -   -               -------      -   -   -
Scotland      3   0   0               France       3   0   0
Ireland       2   1   0               Canada       2   1   0
Japan         1   2   0               Romania      1   2   0
Zimbabwe      0   3   0               Fiji         0   3   0

8.1160SMARTT::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Oct 15 1991 11:333
8.1161OfferEDUOZ::THURGARTue Oct 15 1991 21:206
    Both 'Saw and Rachael expressed an interest in jerseys. Just trying to
    satisfy there requests. Would do teh same for you also.
    
    As long as you all back the Aussies to win the WC.
    
    Madge
8.1162BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Oct 16 1991 10:293
Well, then, I'm all set, I called for Austrailia to win in .1075

Rachael
8.1163CAM::WAYParty on, GarthWed Oct 16 1991 11:0829
Throw another shrimp on the barby, mate, and pass me a Fosters.

"Tie me kangaroo down, tie me kangaroo down"

Waltzin' Matilda is my favorite song....

I can't believe Campese could have been so stupid as to throw a blind
pass.

Say, did you see how the Wallabies beat up on the Yanks two years ago?
Remember that game when both props and the hooker scored tries?  Great
Australian rugby....

Funny, on the way in this morning I had the urge to drive my car
on the left side of the road!



(How am I doin' Madge?)

And finally, the SPORTS Seal of Approval:

		The Australian Wallabies.  What a team!  My favorites
		for years!!!!!


'Saw


8.1164Go All Blacks! Don't want no steeenkin' shirt 8^)CTHQ3::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Oct 16 1991 11:181
    
8.1165Thanks, MadgeCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 16 1991 11:326
    People keep countin' out the Scots.  In fact I've heard several
    predictions that the Western Somoans will win in Murrayfield.  Scotland
    isn't flashy, but they have an excellent back row and a tenacious
    defense.  The Scots play a NZ style of game.  It should be an
    interesting semi-final should the Scots meet the All Blacks, and I
    think they will.
8.1166SemisEDUOZ::THURGARWed Oct 16 1991 21:2513
    Bribery and corruption is alive and well in the SPORTS note. 'Saw I
    loved it, next thing you know you will start liking cricket. Who is
    this Leary character anyway (obviously not a sheep as he doesnt follow
    the flock - but a sheep lover instead). Kiwi joke. 
    
    If Scotland win, they would play the winner of France v England, while
    Aust will play the All Blacks (assuming they both win). Then I'd be
    praying for an Aussie win. If they lose I'd have to go for the All
    Blacks in the final.
    
    Nick Farr JOnes should be fit for the quarter final.
    
    Madge
8.1167Cricket, Sport of Fine Gentlemen Everywhere...CAM::WAYParty on, GarthWed Oct 16 1991 22:3419
>    loved it, next thing you know you will start liking cricket. Who is

Oh, cricket is a fine sport.  I used to watch it late in the evenings
on SKY channel while I was in France.  I can't profess to understanding
much of the game, but like any fine sport it requires much skill and
practice to do well.

btw, I even have a cricket card from some Ashes Tournament, out of a 
pack of Stimorol chewing gum!  (thanks JD!!!!)


>    this Leary character anyway (obviously not a sheep as he doesnt follow
>    the flock - but a sheep lover instead). Kiwi joke. 

He has a little wooly butt-boy.... 8^)

    
later,
'Saw
8.1168BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 17 1991 10:2413
Saw,
	I have to agree, you've got it down, you're probably having a 
vegamite sandwich for lunch today, too.  
	Look for a listing of our game in the Globe for the weekend.  I'm
not sure if that comes out Thursday or Friday, could someone tell me?
It's under something like "Things to do" for the weekend, I think it's part
of the sports section.  They are not interested in covering us, but they
will give us a bit of publicity.  Better than nothing, I suppose.
	Practice tonight, brrr.  I can't wait till the end of November,
that'll be really cheery.  I like the spring season so much better than
the fall...

Rachael
8.1169CAM::WAYParty on, GarthThu Oct 17 1991 10:2922
>	I have to agree, you've got it down, you're probably having a 
>vegamite sandwich for lunch today, too.  

Oh, I've had vegamite before.  It's OK, but I wouldn't walk to the corner
store for it 8^)


>	Look for a listing of our game in the Globe for the weekend.  I'm
>not sure if that comes out Thursday or Friday, could someone tell me?
>It's under something like "Things to do" for the weekend, I think it's part
>of the sports section.  They are not interested in covering us, but they
>will give us a bit of publicity.  Better than nothing, I suppose.

typcial paper....

>	Practice tonight, brrr.  I can't wait till the end of November,
>that'll be really cheery.  I like the spring season so much better than
>the fall...


I love the fall, but I'm not up for freezing my ass off in the rain
this evening.
8.1170I've got Maori feverCTHQ3::LEARYBetter than LDSThu Oct 17 1991 13:5714
    Hummph,
    Wooly whatever. What's this wif sheep? Dagummit let's leave smut in
    Washington where it belongs.
    Madge, steel tryin' to understand Aussie rules foosball (occasionally
    seen on ESPN) You could deo away with the funny-lookin twits with the
    white shorts, white knee-sox and purty white flags. Looks downright
    cricket-like if ya ask me. Do they drink tea whilst officiating.
    How British( and I know Aussie's love being British 8^) 8^) )
    
    I still say Go All Blacks, crush the weasaly Wallabees! 8^)
    
    
     MikeL
    
8.1171BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 17 1991 15:005
	I just went and found Western Samoa on the map.  It's not even
filled in, it's too small a (set of) dot(s) to color in.  Doesn't even
look big enough for a pitch on a world map.

Rachael
8.1172RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOAvery ROOLZThu Oct 17 1991 15:3812
    Saw -
    
    I have some Vegamite that I brought back from Australia - unopened.
    Just waiting to spring on some unsuspecting soul.
    
    Also, Madge - when the Cricket starts, could you post results -
    especially international results.
    
    I still have some cricket cards left, in case anyone out there in
    SPORTS land would like to have one!
    
    JD
8.1173If it's related to "Marmite"....GEMVAX::HILLThu Oct 17 1991 16:491
    Vegamite is NAS-TEEE!! Unsuspecting is right...
8.1174Vegemite, pies and sausages rollsEDUOZ::THURGARThu Oct 17 1991 22:4628
    Vegemite - the breakfast of champions. On toast with a cup of coffee,
    nothing better to cure a hangover. Americans are too used to sweet
    things. It has a lot of yeast in it (the excess from brewing beer) and
    is an acquired taste. Like your root beer tastes like cough medicine.
    MikeL hasn't got Maori fever more like yellow fever. I am glad you dont
    understand Aussie Rules football. Being from NSW we hate it, it is
    played mainly by Victorians - we call it aerial pingpong, but they can
    really kick a ball and are men enough not to wear pads and helmets like
    other so-called contact sports we know.
    
    Cricket updates on the way. We have the World Cup of 1 day cricket in
    Australia and NZ this summer (yes it is our summer now). I already have
    tickets to 3 games. Australia is looking strong, both the Waugh
    brothers scored centuries in a interstate game during the week - the
    equivalent of batting 1.000 witha couple of grand slam home runs and
    heaps of RBI's.
    
    I hate Marmite - cheap imitation of Vegemite.
    
    Great piece in the news last night on Western Samoa, they have a huge
    TV screen set up and about 5000 people sit up all night watching the
    game and then they go to church the next morning and pray. Really cool
    lifestyle in the islands.
    
    Big weekend in Sport coming up.
    
    Madge
    
8.1175CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 18 1991 10:2316
NEXT SPORTS GET-TOGETHER IN:


		Australia!


We charter a plane.  Instead of dropping Oxygen masks from the ceiling,
little tubes that run from the liquor supply drop down.

We'll call it the HellPlane.  

Who's gonna fly it?  I can help take off, and flying up there is no
problem, but my landings are not up to par.....


'Saw
8.1176How's about Leslie Neilson?CTHQ3::LEARYBetter than LDSFri Oct 18 1991 11:051
    
8.1177BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Oct 18 1991 11:3511
One of my teammates is a pilot for TWA, I'll ask her how to land a jet
then I'll do it.

Madge, I don't see how you can say we're too used to sweet things.  There
are plenty of foods here which have no sugar.  They have msg.

Hey, somebody here was kind enough to show me our announcement.  It's
a tiny thing on page 72 of today's globe, don't miss it.


Rachael
8.1178CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 18 1991 12:2821
>One of my teammates is a pilot for TWA, I'll ask her how to land a jet
>then I'll do it.


Good.  If there's someone else in the cockpit then you don't get as
nervous...

Actually, if there's not too much of a cross wind, and if I can
remember to level off and bleed off A LOT of airspeed once I'm over
the numbers, then I'm not too bad.  Course it's been a FEW years.
My biggest problem was not letting the airspeed bleed off and not
letting the plane settle before trying to flare....  nasty nasty!


Great.  Let's go to Australia!

Madge, put some shrimp on the barbie, and spread some toast with
Vegamite.  Plus, I wanna try some Stimorol, The Sportsman's Gum....


8^)
8.1179Worcester vs Old GoldCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 18 1991 12:3118
    Big game for Worcester tomorrow.  We go up against undefeated Old Gold. 
    Old Gold was dropped from Division I last year and they are still
    ticked off about it.  They even petitioned the NERFU board to let them
    stay up.  Somehow they were able to schedule most of their league games
    at home, and take off in the middle of the league season for trip to
    the UK.  Our club captain ran into them while he was there last week to
    catch some World Cup action.  Apparently there was a lot of trash
    talking and arrogance coming from the Bostonians.
    
    Some of the pressure is off of us.  We found out that the second place
    team in Div.II will get into the Eastern playoffs as a wildcard.  Since
    we do have 1 loss, we still need to win, but we don't have to worry
    about point differential as much.
    
    The game is being played at Clifford Eustis Field in Spyder Park in
    Boston (on Proctor Ave. near City Hospital).  I'm back in the front
    row, but I'll be trying to help the Bside extend their undefeated
    season.
8.1180CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 18 1991 12:4029
Good luck.

When you go into your first scrum, just kind of say that all of the
Wanderers you know say that "Old Gold Sucks Donkey"....8^)

I didn't make either practice this week.  I've been fighting off this
cold that just won't go away.  I played last week, and came off the
field DEAD tired and wiped.

I've got to try to get some directions to the game.  I'll have to get
lucky and perhaps track down Tom Faust at work...

We've got Providence.  Big game.


As to C side, I've been thinking about trying to move back to second
row for this game.  We've got Joe Bishop back there, and we're getting
eaten alove with NO push.  I could probably do more for the scrum there
than at hooker.  I'll have to see what happens tomorrow.   I know that
I can get my big ol' prop butt down lower than Joe, and I've got the
hip thrust right too....8^)


I've also got to get out and get a lineman's hand pad sometime today.....


Lots to do.....

'Saw
8.1181IAMOK::WASKOMFri Oct 18 1991 12:476
    'Saw -
    
    If you don't get directions by the time you leave today *WHO DO I
    CALL*?  I really, really want to be at the game tomorrow.
    
    A&W
8.1182CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 18 1991 12:494
8.1183CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 18 1991 16:3226
I've got directions to the Providence game, but I've got them from
Hartford.  


	Rt 6 East to RI 195.
	Take RI 195 to I95 North

	I95 North to Branch St exit (might be #24)

	Bear right.

	Bear right again by Bennies (a store)

	This is No. Main St.

	Go left onto Olney St (near a McDs)

	Game at Hope High School.


That's all I got...


Now all I gotta do is get that hand pad.....

'Saw
8.1184CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 18 1991 16:473
8.1185CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 18 1991 17:0910
Thanks, but I got a ton of stuff to do.

I've got a sports store on the way home.  It's a chain (Champs)
and has okay stuff.  Not as good as Herbs, the little corner sports
store on the way to practice, but it'll do...

good luck against Old Mold....


'Saw
8.1186CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 18 1991 17:472
    I thought Champs was a sports BAR not a sports STORE.  Oh, it is Friday
    ;^)
8.1187CAM::WAYParty on, GarthFri Oct 18 1991 17:5211
>    I thought Champs was a sports BAR not a sports STORE.  Oh, it is Friday
>    ;^)


It could be, I don't know.  But in Ct we have two Champs sports stores
that I know of.  First, there's the one in Buckland Hills Pavilion Mall
near my house, and then the one in Danbury Fair Mall, about 1:15 away.

There is a Challengers Sports Bar in Hartford....

8^)
8.1188IAMOK::WASKOMFri Oct 18 1991 18:007
    'Saw -
    
    Many thanks for the directions.  Those and a map should get me there.
    
    Good luck to everyone tomorrow and over the weekend.  
    
    A&W
8.1189Heart stopperEDUOZ::THURGARSun Oct 20 1991 20:4051
    Oh my god.
    What a scary weekend.
    
    I only went 2-2 with my predictions (almost 1-3)
    
    Scotland completely outplayed Wset Samoa. The Samoan didnt have the
    drive or intensity. The number of games caught up on them, you cant
    play every game on emotion. Scotland looked very good. Forwards tight,
    backs steady and willing to run.
    
    England beat France. No France lost to England. They didnt have a game
    plan and lost the plot completely. England played well, there old pack
    go to the breakdown quick and dominated the ball. There backs were
    good. G & G in the centres were great. Very dangerous (the whole back
    line).
    
    Australia beat Ireland in a cliff hanger 19-18. Nick Farr Jones went
    off after Austs first try (by David Campese - brilliant broken field
    run) and from then on it was a real struggle. 6-0 Aust, ended up 6-6
    with some penalties. The refs in all games could not keep out of the
    play. I am sick and tired of seeing refs who want centre stage. We got
    marched 10 metres for our captain questioning a decision (Penalty goal
    ensued). Aust up 9-6, then 9-9. Australia scored a great backline try
    (David Campese again to go up 15-9) and we are looking good. Another
    penalty goal 15-12. 6 mins to go Ireland kick through from there own
    half. Campo doesnt dive on the ball and Ireland end up scoring in the
    corner and it was converted. The crowd went bannanas. 18-15 Ireland.
    4 mins to go I was alomost in tears and I was screaming. Deep kick off,
    mistake by the Irish, Aust scrum out the backilne Campo tackled a metre
    out pops the ball to Lynagh who dives over in the corner for the win.
    What a heart stopper. That performance showed poise, but we lack the
    leadership of Farr Jones and our scrum was only fair. The lineouts are
    a joke, anything goes. Offside is not a penalty withe these refs. Glad
    for the win, but we have to play better to beat the All Blacks.
    
    The All Blacks beat Canada in the pooring rain in France. Godd tough
    game. The AB's should be worried as they too did not look convincing.
    
    Next weekend
    
    Scotland V England
    Aust V NZ
    
    'Saw dont you get Stimorol in the US ???
    
    Education time - we dont call them shrimps, just prawns. Shrimps are
    really tiny prawns. That is why you call short people shrimps.
    
    Still recovering from heart failure.
    
    Madge (a very relieved Madge).
8.1190CAM::WAYParty on, GarthMon Oct 21 1991 07:3616
To wrap up the Quarters then, we have:


	Scotland    28	Western Samoa  6
	England     19	France	      10
	Australia   19	Ireland	      18
	New Zealand 29  Canada        13


The Semis will be

	England vs. Scotland
	Australia vs. New Zealand


'Saw
8.1191CAM::WAYAin' no sunshine when she's goneMon Oct 21 1991 08:00119
Well, the Wanderers again found their winning ways on Saturday in
Providence.

After a lovely ride out Route 6, complete with breath-taking fall foliage
and no State Cops, I managed to negotiate the mixmaster that surrounds
Providence and find my way to the High School.

Providence was just finishing setting up the pitch, and Glen Judge was
out practicing his kicking.  I helped by shagging balls.  After a few
kicks, Glen said to me "They keep making these posts higher and narrower,
but when are they going to learn it doesn't bother me."

The field, in addition to having the narrow, high posts, was also wide
as an ocean.  Not a forwards' field by any means, but great for out backline.


The A side stepped off at 1pm.  As usual, the officiating was very
inconsistent.  Providence has been known for it's big forwards and
tough pack, but Hartford's scrummaging, the complete opposite of last
week's debacle against Boston, handled them easily.  Howie Rosenberg,
the Jet, got Hartford on the board first with a try.  Glen missed the
conversion, but later made a penalty kick and Hartford went up 7-0.

Soon after, Hartford got a rare penalty for going into the scrummage too
soon.  Granted, they went in hard, and before Providence was ready, but
I've never seen that penalty called.  Count, our coach, said that he'd
take a penalty for that any day.

The halftime score was 10-3, Hartford.  The second half was owned by
Hartford.  I guess it started with the loose forwards.  The were playing
like a house on fire.  Ed Brewer and Johnny Moran, the flankers, each
made long runs in the loose.  A few minutes later they combined on 
a play that looked as if it came from and international highlights film.
Ed was running with the ball, and just as he took the hit, Johnny stripped
him and continued the run.  The beautiful part about it was that Johnny
"popped" just as he took the ball.  Sweetness.

A few minutes after that, Bob Hess, our 8man, had an early Christmas present. 
As Providence was trying to set a maul, the ball popped out and directly
into Bob's hands.  Bob was off to the races, heading for the try line
50 meters away.  Bob made it interesting, as he runs with what he
terms "Barney Rubble steps", but he did beat the fastest of Providence's
backs, to put the ball down just outside the post.

Other try scorers included Tom Faust, Al Deken, and Glen Judge.  Glen took
advantage of an errant pass that was on the ground.  He fly hacked it,
and took off, again, narrowly beating a Providence back line player.

I was touch judging in the 2nd half, and I was getting darn tired
from running back and forth to judge the conversion attempts.

The final score was 41-3 in Hartford's favor.

The B side was playing like a bunch of studs.  We only had 4 C side
players there for the C side game, so the plan originally was to
add an extra half to the B game so we could play.  Providence nixed that
idea when they had a bunch of college kids show up.

So, B side won handily 30-something to 3, and then most of the B side
came back out to play in the C game.


I was again selected hooker, and on this day, I'd actually get a chance
to throw in on lineouts.

The game started slowly, but we were out-rucking them.  My first throwin
was pretty bad, I thought, but Bull, the first jumper, managed to tap
it to Billy the scrumhalf.  As the game wore on I got better quick.

We got an early try, and a penalty, so we had a little cushion heading
into half time.

I was thoroughly enjoying playing hooker, since I seemed to get more
ball than ever before.  I got a lot of ball off taps in the lineouts,
both theres and ours, and I got the ball in the open field a couple
of times.

It's funny.  I've got a foward's body, but a back's mind, I guess, because
the one time I got the ball from Billy, I wanted to put a move on this
guy.  My mind goes "make a move", my body went "DUH", and I got hit.  I
did managed to post the ball and we kept possession on the ensuing ruck.

Our scrummaging was fierce.  Early in the second half Providence was 
awarded three five meter scrums in a row.  On each they won the hook
(uncontested) but we just drove over and regained possession.

This week, Joe Bishop played loosehead prop.  Joe must be getting
old or something.  Their tighthead, a young college kid, had his head
in my jaw all damn day, and it hurts like hell this morning.  Joe didn't
do much to keep him off me, but I pretty much ignored it.

Joe did take a penalty for twisting the kid, and the ref told him to
bind up on the kid's back.  I think the ref may have mixed up the sides,
because it's generally the tighthead who has to bind like that.  The
loosehead is not required to bind with his outside arm at all....

One really nice play in the second half was a penalty kick by our
flyhalf, Todd Cuhna.  He kicked the ball 40 yards square through
the uprights.  Some of us on the field yelled towards the sidelines,
"Glen WHO???"

Late in the game, we were about 20 meters out, and we decided to go
for a walkover try on the scrummage.  We walked them into the try
zone, in fact, our front row was there, but Billy got impatient and
tried to pick up and score, and was thwarted.  No side was whistled
a few minutes later.


It felt good to get back on the winning track.  Especially since it
was Providence.  They complained at the New England tournament that
our fields were narrow and short, to take advantage of Glen.  We
beat them big on their own field (a SWEEP no less) which was wide
and long, with narrow posts....

Next week, our destiny is still in our own hands as we go to Malden
to play Mystic River.....


'Saw
8.1192Worcester vs Old GoldCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 21 1991 11:4353
    Worcester took on Old Gold in Boston on Saturday.  A loss would pretty
    much eliminate Worcester's chances for post-season play.  It was a
    beautiful day for rugby despite being a bit on the warm side.  The game
    started off as a kicking duel as both sides tested the referee's
    interpretations of the laws.  Mike Mullen of Worcester made good on 3
    of 4 of his opportunities at goal while the Old Gold kicker made only 1
    of 3.  Worcester took control for the remainder of the half and played
    most of the time in Old Gold's end.  Worcester scored a try or two off
    some nice backline play set up by aggressive rucking.  Old Gold came
    storming back in the second half on the strength of their mauling. 
    Worcester was under heavy pressure for the first 15-20 minutes of the
    second half.  Worcester finally broke the pressure when wing Doug Dillon 
    raced about 75 yards for a try.  Worcester again assumed control of the
    game and ended up cruising to a 21-9 win.
    
    This helped to muddle up the playoff picture in the Maxwell Division. 
    As far as I know, there is a 3 way tie for first place (assuming
    Burlington won which is pretty much a given).  Worcester, Burlington,
    and Old Gold all have only 1 loss with one week left to play.  Old Gold
    still has to play Springfield at home which should be a good match. 
    Burlington has a match against one of the second tier teams which
    Springfield, Worcester, and Old Gold have been beating up on. 
    Worcester travels to Portland next week.  Portland is always tough at
    home, but they are nowhere near their form of a few years ago when they
    dominated the Maxwell League.
    
    Worcester's Bs faced a very formidable opponent in Old Gold.  This was
    easily the best side we have played to date.  Their pack was pretty
    good sized yet mobile.  Their backline was very aggressive and they
    have a real speedster on the wing.  The game was very physical, but
    very clean.  The scrummages were owned by Worcester.  I enjoyed being
    back in the front row.  It was especially sweet when they had to switch
    their props in the second half to put a bigger player on me, but it
    didn't help.  The lineouts were 50/50.  They had a height advantage (as
    usual), but we did a good job of disrupting.  The loose play was pretty
    even with Old Gold using the maul and Worcester using the ruck.  The
    backline play was the difference with some help from the backrow (our
    backrow had a couple of props in it).  Most of the ball we won, we had
    to go backwards to regain.  We managed to salvage some pride with a try
    late in the second half.  Final score was WRFC 6, OGRFC 23.
    
    To add insult to injury, most of us had to trot onto the field for a
    C-side match.  Fortunately we played 20 minute halves (although when
    they were recruiting players they said it would only be 15s).  I ended
    up playing 2nd row as one of the first side props and one of the B side
    flankers took positions in the front row.  Our backline was much
    improved over the 2nd game as several A side players took the field. 
    Old Gold had a few A and B side players intermixed with a fresh side. 
    I lumbered along from set piece to set piece, occasionally mixing it up
    in ruck or maul that came back towards the forwards and even handled
    the ball occasionally.  The remainder of the time I was admiring the
    flair of our backs.  I don't know what the final score was, but it was
    alot to nil.
8.1193BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Oct 22 1991 12:0429
	Well, I'd give long stories about what happened this weekend but I
missed a lot of it so I can't really.  But here goes.
	Our A-side game against Boston was very nice.  Very controlled,
well executed, etc.  The pace was very solid, not fast but not slow either.
As usual, I have no idea what the final score was, it was about 20-something
to 4.  Boston played a good game, it was enjoyable to watch.
	The B-game wss about the same, with less differential.  Also, the
Boston players in that match were incredibly dirty.  I haven't seen that
much punching in a game in ages. Somebody hit me in the eye, (accident)and while
I was  getting rinsed out, they scored.  (ie while they were up a player)
I went back in, but eventually had to come out.  Handily, we play right
across from Mass Eye and Ear, so I went over there.  Best moment of the 
day wsa getting numbing eye drops, turned out I had a scratched cornea.
Heals very quickly but hurts unbelievable for a day.
	The old girls game apparently went well, Beantown won.  Rumor has
it the banquet was a great time, but i was out in the car sleeping most
of the time so I don't know.  It looked nice, but I had to go shut my 
eyes.  Every time I moved one eye, the other moved, and for anyone that's
had this injury, well, it makes you want to not move your eyes.
	Luckily, I'm mostly better now.  My biggest problem is that I have
to put ointment in my eyes for another day and a half, and the ointment
makes my vision blurry.  So I can type,since I touch type, but I can't
see the screen unless I cover my treated eye. I can see things at a distance
fine, but I can't read too well.
	I'm going to skip practice tonight, but I'll be back Thursday
and will hopefully play on Saturday, unless I'm the one to sit out this
weekend (we usually have about 33-35 available, and two games)

Rachael
8.1194CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Tue Oct 22 1991 12:3223
Ouch!

Tough break Rachael.

I won't talk too much about it.  I've always had a problem hearing about,
or dealing with eye injuries.  Even when I worked on the ambulance I could
not deal with an eye injury.  My partner would do those, and I'd drive.

I think it was because when my dad had his cataract operations I had to
change his dressings.  Between him telling me in vivid terms about the
operation (you're awake but incredibly numb) and actually changing the
dressings, I've never been able to deal with eyes since.

Here's hoping you have a quick recovery, and your vision is fine.

Congrats on the wins.


Practice tonight for our last league season game.  Biggest game of
the year.  Since it's so big, that means that most of us will just
be "cannon fodder" for the A side.....

'Saw
8.1195CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Oct 22 1991 13:173
    That field across from Mass Eye & Ear has got to be the worst field in
    New England.  We played HBS there 2 weeks ago.  It's a thin layer of
    dirt and grass over a quarry, and I'm being generous.
8.1196CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Tue Oct 22 1991 13:4231
>
>    That field across from Mass Eye & Ear has got to be the worst field in
>    New England.  We played HBS there 2 weeks ago.  It's a thin layer of
>    dirt and grass over a quarry, and I'm being generous.


I have to disagree wif ya Mac.  Worst pitch in New England is where
we played Old Mold last season.  You got to the end of the Mass pike,
get on I93 South and take like the first exit (Albany something or
other)>

You got down a couple of blocks and there's this sorry ass excuse of a 
park, complete with old busted up factories, homeless dudes, and rats.

The pitch was mostly dirt with a manhole cover in the middle which they
circles with lime and tried to fill in.  There was glass all over the
pitch.  

The pitch was narrow, and five feet from the touchline on one side
was a fence.  Two feet behind the fence was a five story abandoned
factory.   Glen decided his first kick to touch would land on the
factory roof.  It did.  Of course, considering Old Mold was the
home team, it was *their* ball 8^)


Toughest pitch ever was in the Bahamas.  Pieces of coral and sea-shells
don't make it nice to go down.....


'Saw

8.1197BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Oct 22 1991 14:1314
8.1198CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Tue Oct 22 1991 15:4819
>	This discussion reminds me of Randall's island, but I guess (according
>to Saw, I think) that's been cleaned up quite a bit.


Randall's seemed a lot better last season, from the comments I've heard.
It was my first time, and it didn't strike me as being a terrible pitch.
It weren't great, but....


>My eye is about better by today, but this ointment is really driving
>me nuts with how blurry it makes my vision.


Rachael... when my vision gets blurry I just go home, lay down, close
my eyes, and think lots of dirty thoughts....  Makes me feel better
EVERY time....


'Saw
8.1199IAMOK::WASKOMTue Oct 22 1991 18:489
    Rachael -
    
    You have my utmost sympathy.  I *tore* my cornea once, and it hurts
    like a summuvabeach.  Actually, that's probably my only rugby injury
    ever, since it happened at a drink-up a gazillion years ago.  :-)
    
    Hope you recover quick.
    
    A&W
8.1200please resume your normal sports talkOURGNG::RIGGENRiggamotis RULEZTue Oct 22 1991 19:571
.1200 rugby replies and I have probably next unseen every one of them...
8.1201A game or a war?EUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredWed Oct 23 1991 07:0848
    Y'all,
    
    Sorry about the lack of news recently, but I've been away.
    
    Last weekend was one of very mixed emotions for me rugby-wise. First,
    we notched up our first victory by 17-3 after a thoroughly enjoyable
    and rewarding game. Second, I was at the Parc des Princes on Saturday
    to witness the WC quarter-final between France and England. You all
    know the result, but rather than the final score, I personally will
    remember this game for the rotten spirit in which it was played and
    some highly questionable decisions by the ref that had a decisive
    effect on the outcome of the game.
    
    I think that the WC is having some negative effects on the game. Let me
    explain; there was so match at stake in the game on Saturday that the
    tension and pressure were practically unbearable. This was immediately
    apparent on the field of play, with deliberate late tackles, violent
    retaliation to violent provocation, and a a strategy adopted by the
    English that consisted in booting high balls over Serge Blanco and then
    smashing him in, irrespective of whether he had the ball or not. They
    had singled him out as a target. It was obvious, even if they state the
    contrary. The Scots did the same to Irish full-back Staples a week
    earlier.
    
    As a result, the game was ill-tempered, messy, and littered with
    scrappy incidents, blows below the belt, and sly kicks behind the ref's
    back.
    
    The British press has since been lambasting the French XV for its
    retaliation. This seems odd. The English came on itching for a fight,
    and they got one. So whom do you punish? Those who provoke, or those
    who retaliate? I was well pissed off by the whole affair.
    
    You can expect plenty more of the same at Murrayfield this Saturday,
    when the stakes will be even higher. I just hope against hope that the
    Scots blow them off the park.
    
    On a more positive note, everything came right on Sunday, when we won
    our first game of the season. We won the game up front, and all three
    of our tries were scored in forward movements. It was very important
    for us to win, as morale was low, and the coach has resigned after
    three successive defeats in the first three games of the season. I hope
    that this victory will create some momentum for the following games.
    
    Salut,
    
    Ed.
        
8.1202CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Wed Oct 23 1991 10:1122
>    I think that the WC is having some negative effects on the game. Let me
>    explain; there was so match at stake in the game on Saturday that the
>    tension and pressure were practically unbearable. This was immediately
>    apparent on the field of play, with deliberate late tackles, violent
>    retaliation to violent provocation, and a a strategy adopted by the
>    English that consisted in booting high balls over Serge Blanco and then
>    smashing him in, irrespective of whether he had the ball or not. They
>    had singled him out as a target. It was obvious, even if they state the
>    contrary. The Scots did the same to Irish full-back Staples a week
>    earlier.
    

Sounds like a typical Hartford-Boston game. If it was played in Ireland
you'd call it a Donneybrook....8^)


Ed, Congrats on the WIN. Nothing like a win to pick up fallen spirits.

The abuse that rugby does to your body is so much more bearable when
you've put more points on the board than the other side.....

'Saw
8.1203CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Wed Oct 23 1991 10:1842
And so it's all come down to this:


	Saturday, Mystic River defeated Boston 10-9.

	For Hartford to ensure ourselves a playoff sport, we must
	beat Mystic River by 6 points or more.

	Obviously, a loss, and we'll all be doing the Pee Wee thing
	on the 16th when the Northeast Regionals take place.....


With that in mind we had a hellacious practice last night.  The scrum
sled came out for the first time this season -- pretty damn late if you
ask me.  Actually, it had been broken (the bar the head pad goes on 
was messed up).

We used it anyway.  We had to concentrate much more on going in lower,
and the most unpleasant part was the without the head pad, much, much
more of the strain was placed on your shoulders.  Oh well.

Apart from that, everything else in the practice was a non-stop
exercise.  Our first drill was ball handling up fifty yard, then coming
back down the other side of the field, we'd split the line of 6
into two groups of three, and alternate rucks over 6 skittles in a
single file line back to the goal line.

As luck would have it, I ended up in a line with several of the
fastest flankers, and one of our faster backs.  Every 50 yards of
ball handling was, for me, a flat out sprint.  Sheesh!



The strategy against Mystics is simple:  Win the game, and for any 
penalties in their half, go to goal.  Points, points, points.

Hartford still has a chance at the League Championship, but I'm not
sure how.  I believe Boston would have to outright lose to Providence
for that to happen.


'Saw
8.1204BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Oct 23 1991 10:2714
Good, I feel much better now that I've gotten more pity.  What a relief.

Ed, I'm glad your game is picking up.  I'm surprised your coach resigned.
Did you mean he quit, or that he was resigned to yoor losing?  I don't see
why losing three in a row would make someone give up, we all have streaks
where we play abysmal.  And yours, as you showed this weekend, was fairly
brief. When I was in college, we lost almost every single game the last
two years, but we had a great team and we had a good time.  Sometimes I 
was very frustrated and I wanted to quit and go out for club ball, but
I stayed because the team was worth it.

Everything is still very blurry...

Rachael
8.1205CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 23 1991 10:3922
    The Maxwell League (aka NERFU Div.II) playoff picture was explained to
    us last night.  Burlington, Worcester, and Old Gold are all tied for
    first with 1 loss each.  Barring any upsets this weekend, that
    shouldn't change.  The tie breaker is point differential among the 3
    first place teams in head-to-head matches.  Burlington will win the
    division outright with a differential of +5, Worcester comes in second
    and takes the wildcard spot with a differential of +4, Old Gold misses
    out with a point differential of -8.  Our winger's mishandling of the
    kickoff with only about a minute left in the Burlington match was a
    costly error.  If he had downed it and taken the dropout, we'd be in
    first place.  He didn't and Burlington scored with no time left.
    
    So, provided we beat Portland this weekend (we certainly can't look
    past them, they are always tough at home) we will host the second place
    team from Upstate NY Div. II on Nov. 2.  The winner will play in the
    Met-NY Union on Nov. 16.  Our coach is starting to crank up the fitness
    training again.  It's almost like preseason.
    
    From what I understand, Burlington plays MIT and Old Gold hosts
    Springfield this Saturday.  Burlington should romp over MIT.  The Old
    Gold/Spfld. game should be a good one, but I think Old Gold will want
    to make up for losing to us and they'll be at home.
8.1206CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Wed Oct 23 1991 11:2017
Good luck to you, Mac.   Just beat up on Portland and you should be
all set....

We did all the fitness stuff too.  YUK.  At this point in the season, 
with all them little aches, pains and bruises which never seem to go
away, doing all that fitness stuff is a real test of mental discipline.


Question for you, since you played in another territory.  I know that
the other territories' league seasons span fall and spring.  Do they
play each team in the league just once?

When you play each team just once, it gets to the point where one
loss can kill your entire season.....


'Saw
8.1207CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 23 1991 12:4639
8.1208CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Wed Oct 23 1991 12:5343
>    second place team from the north and vice versa.  The winner of these
>    matches take on the first place finishers.  With this system there is a
>    bit more room for error than what we have in NERFU.

Oh.....

    
>    Seeing Old Gold finish third in the Maxwell League is even sweeter
>    after hearing them complain about being dropped and how they deserved
>    to stay in the Umbro League.  HAW HAW HAW

Old Mold.  A sorry excuse of a rugby team.

    
>    It will be interesting to see what the league alignments will be like
>    next year.  Amoskeag and New Haven haven't won a match in Umbro league
>    play.  There are rumors that they both might want to drop down to the
>    Maxwell League.  Burlington will have the option of moving up, but they
>    haven't been able to field 2 full sides so I don't see them going to
>    the Umbro League where they will be required to field 3.  That is what
>    kept Portland from going up in their heyday.

Wow.  They have not won a game???

So, let's see....  Mystic 6-0, Boston, Hartford 5-1,  Providence 4-2,
                   New Haven, 'Skeag 0-6....Beacon?????


If I was a bettin' man, I'd bet that Amoskeag stays.  They play a very
phsycial brand of rugby, and they really want to do well.  They have
their heads on remarkably straight for a team just up to Div I.  I'd
say, they stay.

New Haven?  I do so love to play that team.  We always do well against
New Haven.

I'd hate like hell to have to drive to Burlington for a game....

Be interesting to see what happens....


'Saw

8.1209BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Oct 23 1991 13:0114
8.1210IAMOK::WASKOMWed Oct 23 1991 13:0910
    Saturday promises to be a real nail-biter.  I'm sending up the incense,
    spinning the prayer wheels, and generally importuning the heavens
    starting now.  I'm not sure my stomach can take this.......
    
    On the other hand, I'm now in possession of Providence's spring
    schedule, and a standing invite to *please* come to any of their games
    I can make  :-)  [plus assorted phone numbers - some drink-ups are
    better than others :-) ]
    
    A&W
8.1211CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Wed Oct 23 1991 13:1823
Yeah, but what could be more exciting?

To have your own destiny in your own pocket.  If we go out there and do
what we have to do, then we deserve it.  If we do a Dean(tm) and gag on
the chicken bone, then we deserve that too.

Nothing more exciting that a mano-a-mano, High Noon, no holds barred
cage match between the two best rugby clubs in New England.


Analytically speaking, I'm thinking it's pretty even.  Mystic has not
beat any of the team we have beaten anywhere near a convincingly as 
we have.

Last season, in a driving downpour, we owned Mystic for 60 minutes.  
Unforunately they tied us, and then battled us to a stalemate in the
last 20 minutes.  

Bottom line, I think it comes down to our pack.  If our pack is on, 
then we should do well.....


'Saw
8.1212BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 24 1991 10:4611
Color me subdued.

I found out that our selectors assumed I was an "i" (for injured), and as that
left 29 people for two games with just one hooker, I am sidelined this weekend.
We were supposed to have a third game but the opponent cancelled.
	
I might get to play if someone else cancels, I'd give that a 40-50% chance.
Otherwise, I'll have to practice up on my spectating.  We're playing
Hartford away, Alison, if you want to see some games.(ie, we'll be in Hartford)

Rachael
8.1213BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 24 1991 10:472
I didn't realize, I had reply 1212.  For someone working on futurebus+, and
me concentrating on the CSR's, that's very exciting.
8.1214CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Thu Oct 24 1991 11:2081

	IT's what every rugger craves.  IT's what every rugger exists
	for.

	IT's in the back of your mind on that Tuesday night in mid-August,
	when the fall season starts.  The Captain with his new running
	shoes, says "On me" and a pack of men, all shapes, all sizes,
	starts running.  IT's in the back of your mind at the end of
	that practice, where all you've done is handle the ball and
	run, run and handle the ball, when the Captain says "Okay,
	a 10-minute fartlek, on the line."

	The summer heat and humidity robs your lungs of air, and makes
	your thighs feel like lead as those 10 minutes feel more like
	10 hours.  Your mind blanks, your eyes stare ahead, not seeing
	anything in particular, and the white hot pain centered square
	in your chest takes everything over when the Captain blows the
	whistle and you have to "stride it out."  Your mind has gone
	away, but there, center stage in your skull, IT sits and waits.


	A few weeks later, you're playing those first two non-league
	games.  They're fun games, and the temptation to let down and
	say "It's not the league season" is quickly snuffed out by the
	hellacious practices planned by Captain and Coach.  Because while
	you try to ignore IT, the Captain and Coach never will.

	IT's there every time you hit the scrum sled, that monstrosity
	of metal and pads that plays the role of your opponent every
	Tuesday night.  IT's really there everytime you walk the sled,
	hearing the 8man calling the cadence:  "Walk it, walk it,
	walk it, Steady.... Drop - DRIVE",  and IT's there when the
	guys playing ballast yell for "more meat on the sled".


	The league season starts.  You've finished well the year before,
	so you get the easy teams up first.  You squash them like
	ants under your heel, and you feel good.  You feel so good that
	your body doesn't really hurt as much on Sunday morning when
	you roll out of bed.  You feel good right up until Tuesday
	evening, when the Captain and Coach (who have never forgotten
	about IT) make you feel downright lousy.  And so it goes.


	IT.  IT is Saturday.  THIS Saturday.  IT is the game you have
	prepared for, the game you have sweated for, the game you've
	bled for, and the game that takes center-stage in your Universe.

	They say Mystic River is the best.  At six wins and no defeats
	they are arguably so.  But you know from looking at the scores
	that Mystic has not crushed an opponent this season.  You know
	that Hartford has romped and stomped over all but one of 
        the lesser opponents.

	But, in the rarefied air of Division I rugby, at the very top
	of the mountain, one loss can mean ALL the work goes down the
	drain.  All the work is thrown away with the words "Next season."
	One bad day, one mistake such as getting tossed, or such as
	arguing with the ref so that he tacks on an additional 30 yards
	to a penalty, which brings the opponent into range of goal, is
	enough to make you second best.

	You are second best coming in.  IT's still there.  But now,
	nestled down next to IT is another little thought.  Despite
	the world saying Mystic River is the best, despite everyone
	saying Mystics are the team to beat, you know, as you've known
	all week through the rucking drills, the mauling drills, the
	Indian run, and the scrum sled, that YOU are the best.

	It's what every rugger craves.  It's what ever rugger exists
	for.  It's the chance to hold your destiny in your hands.  It's
	the chance to make all of the sweat, blood, work, and pain have
	a purpose.  It's the chance to say, "We will NOT be denied."

	It comes down to six points.  A victory by six points.  After
	all the tries, all the penalty kicks, all the huge margins
	of victory, it comes down to SIX points.

	It's what every rugger craves.

8.1215IAMOK::WASKOMThu Oct 24 1991 11:3612
    Rachael -
    
    Thanks for the invite, but I'm going to be at that game 'Saw is talking
    about.  I've been waiting for it all season.  Mystic River was the team
    I followed first, and I want to see them play.
    
    
    And LOSE.  I'll be rooting for Hartford with every bone in my body.
    
    Go Wanderers!
    
    A&W
8.1216Or took some 'shrooms! 8^)CTHQ3::LEARYBetter than LDSThu Oct 24 1991 14:227
    Fess up 'Saw,
    You watched "Knute Rockne, All-America" last night didn't ya?
    
    Good luck Sat.
    
    MikeL
    
8.1217CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Thu Oct 24 1991 16:2520
>    Fess up 'Saw,
>    You watched "Knute Rockne, All-America" last night didn't ya?
>    
>    Good luck Sat.
    

No, actually I did was our Captain wanted us to do.  One of the last
things he said to us on Tuesday night ( a hellacious night of practice
btw) was "Remember what it took to get here".

So I did.  

Even as a C side player, this game is major league important.  While
I'm not out there with A side when they play, I am one of the many
people that they have rucked over during the week....8^)


'Saw
    

8.1218BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 24 1991 18:148
Hey Saw, take a look for me, our coach plays C-side for Mystics sometimes,
last I heard at scrumhalf.  His name is Kevin O'Brien, look for a medium
sized, greying man about 50 with a Welsh accent.

I've been printing stuff out of notes for him on the WC, he knows of you
and Mac.

Rachael
8.1219I hate spectatingCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 24 1991 19:071
    Now I feel real bad for you Rachael.  Get well quick!
8.1220WC SemisEDUOZ::THURGARThu Oct 24 1991 19:4513
    Best of luck for all your games on the weekend.
    
    The WC semi finals will be a war.
    I am backing Scotland by 8
    and Australia (who else) by 3.
    
    But dont forget I only went 50% last weekend.
    
    Will be intersate at a client site until Thursday - so no news updates.
    
    My apologies.
    
    Madge
8.1221CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Fri Oct 25 1991 10:5666
Hellacious practice last night.

A side had that HUNGRY look in there eyes, and I took my than my share
of lumps in our drills.  Lineouts were the worst.  Someone caught me
square on the top of the haid wif an elbow...  

Reminded me of the time I hit myself in the haid wif a ball peen hammer,
you know, just to see what it feels like....


From what I understand the playoff picture is like this:


		Boston plays Providence and is expected to win.

		Assuming Boston wins:


			a) If Hartford beats Mystic River by 6 or more,
			   we are the wildcard, and Boston is the champs.

			b) If we beat Mystic River by 16 or more, Hartford
			   is the league champs.


		If Boston loses, I don't know what happens.

We added quite a few new plays for this game, which concerns me, because
they never seem to work the first game out.  Hope they do this time.

The lineup:

		LHP  Pat Precourt
		H    Joe Meucci
		THP  Joe Norton
		L    Brian Shell
	 	L    Brooke Ablon
		F    Tom Brewer
		F    Johnny Moran
		8    Bob Hess

		SH   Deke Annesser
		FH   Glen Judge
		IC   Frank Kraemer
		OC   Danny O'Brien
		W    Howie Rosenberg
		W    Tommy Faust
		FB   Al Deken

Those are the 15 ruggers our hopes are pinned on.  Waz was demoted to
B side this week (and there are indications he might not show -- cheeky
bastard) but that's SOP after missing a game (He was ineligible to play
last week after being tossed against Boston).




In other Wanderers related news, the Club now OWNS the bar.  The liquor
permit has been officially changed to show that the permittee is our
guy Hal, who manages the bar.  There was a one-day lapse (yesterday)
and the bar was closed for business.  However, the bar was open for the
team, and they had a free keg for the team to celibrate.....

The bar is now officially called "Johnny's".   It's called that because
that was the name of the bar when the Wanderers first bought it, before
the place was called "Fleming's Up and Under".....
8.1222CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Fri Oct 25 1991 10:5816
Directions to the Mystic River game.....


	I-93 NORTH

	Take Exit 60 (Malden Exit)

	EAST on 60.

	Follow 3 or 4 miles till Main St in Malden.  Landmarks
		are Richard's Pub and Hanlon Shoes

	Take a left onto main, and about 50 YARDS later bear RIGHT
		onto SALEM ST.

	Roosevelt Park is about 3/4 mile on the right.
8.1223CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Mon Oct 28 1991 10:4563
Well, the Hartford Wanderer's hopes for advancement into the playoffs
this league season were abruptly dashed on Saturday by Mystic River, 30-12.

The game started out well enough, Hartford picking up points on a try,
and two penalties, one of them a phenomenal 60 yard boot by Glen Judge.
The ball was spotted on the "dotted" line, ten back from midfield, with
a slight angle.  The angle might have made it 61, but I couldn't say for
sure.

At any rate, Hartford was up 12-6 at halftime.

Unfortunately, Mystic River opened the game up in the second half, 
with some good runs by their fullback, and a couple of overloads,
and by the time there were 10 minutes left, all the Wanderers were playing
for was pride.

Mystic River finished their season 7-0.  They've taken the New England
League three years in a row now, 1989, 1990, 1991.  The sad part is
these guys always make the tournament but then pull a Snuff job.
Boston got the wildcard at 6-1, and Hartford slipped to a paltry 5-2.


It was a disappointment to say the least.  With the personnel we had,
and the depth we had, we should have at least picked up the wildcard
slot.  In looking back and analyzing, I could say that I think we spent
way too much time on rucking and mauling (which were good ALL season)
and not emough time on the scrum sled.  Also, I think we missed Tom
Vinick's leadership on the field.  I can only hope that Life College
beats up on everyone and attains the National Championship.



B side went out, played hard, but lost 13-7.  I don't remember much
of that game because I was getting ready for my game.

C side.  No one really felt like playing this game.  I mean, A side
had lost, and all the hard work of a long, long season had gone down
the drain.  But, it was up to C side to avoid a sweep.  We took the
pitch against Mystics with 7 regular C siders, a couple of Old Boys,
and a couple of A siders filling in.

The game was a really good game.  Our forwards did our job really 
well, I think.  Personally, I had an okay game.  I guess I'm proudest
of stealing at least 8 of their hooks.  Got a couple of good hits
in too.

We won, by a score of 9-3 I think.


And so, it's come down to the last two game of the season on the schedule
card.  Games which mean nothing in the long run, games which will be
played because commitments have been made.


All in all, it was not a great sports weekend for me.  Everyone that
I was pulling for lost.....

But, there's always next season.  Time to hit the roads a little harder,
and time to try and lift a little more weight in the gym.  If I could
drop 15 pounds or so, I'd get around a helluva lot better.....


'Saw
8.1224CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Mon Oct 28 1991 11:0525
World Cup Update!



		England  9
		Scotland 6

		Australia   16
		New Zealand  6



FINAL:


		England vs Australia


Consolation:

		Scotland vs New Zealand



'Saw
8.1225BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Oct 28 1991 11:4945
	We played Hartford on Saturday, and I'm not sure why, but our B-side
played first.  Our B-side played their A-side minus about 2 players, they
didn't have many substitutions.  It was a hellacious game, those of us
watching were absolutely enthralled.  Two of our rookies scored with 50-60
yard runs down the field, just slipping out of Hartford's fingertips as
they went.  Those two runs happened within minutes of each other, and we 
went nuts.  It was just a great, great game.  We lost by one point, the 
first game that any side of ours has lost this season, but I thought it
was one of the best B-side games I've seen in a long time, especially since
they were playing what was effectively a club A-side.
	The A-game was much less exciting.  We beat them somewhere around
20 or 30 something to 0, I think.  Steady and interesting, but not nearly
the excitement of the first match.  I ended up playing after all, thanks
to my girlfriend who went out with a first degree seperation of her shoulder.
We were kidding around about how it was so nice of her to go out so I could
play.  I got about 20 minutes, which was fun.  Cyndy is in lots of pain but
should heal relatively quickly.  Biggest bummer is she's an auto mechanic
and in that kind of job, you have to go to work or else you risk getting laid
off.  So, she's at work, probably cussing a lot.  Another of the freak injuries
which have plagued us this season.
	I got to watch the Oz-NZ game on Sunday, which was just great.
Austrailia dominated almost the entire match.  I thought the forwards
were pretty well match, the NZ were winning more lineouts and the Aussies
were better/quicker in the loose, but the NZ backs were terrible and the
Austrailian backs played well.  Basically, the way the game went was both
teams kicked for field position, but the Austrailians were  able to keep
the ball downfield once they kicked it there, while the All Blacks  just
got it kicked back to them.  The All Blacks did not try to run the ball
hardly at all until the end of the game, at which point their inside center
ran into the forwards and got caught, or their outside center dropped the
ball (bad passing, actually, I thought the drops were usually not the fault
of the receiver) or the wing got caught with the ball.  The NZ fullback played
the best of the backs, but it wasn't enough.  The Austrailians tended to run
the ball into the loose forwards, then get it out again for the second phase
with a lot more room on the field.  They also had very good gut to gut work
near the line, and just kept the ball alive beautifully.  The Austrailian
flyhalf had one of his kicking shoes on, he missed at least one penalty from
in front and a conversion.  But he made another conversion and two penalties.
	NZ scored on two penalties.  There was one time where they were d*mn
close to a try, but they couldn't work in in and Oz ended up taking the kick.

It was a great game to watch, and very inspiring.


Rachael
8.1226Worcester vs Portland Match ReportCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 28 1991 11:5142
    Worcester RFC travelled to Portland, Maine on Saturday to take on
    Portland RFC.  The Faded Blacks started the day of rugby off against
    Portland Old Boys.  I got there around half-time.  It wasn't a pretty
    sight.  I don't know what the final was, but it was alot for Portland
    to nothing for the Old Boys from Worcester.
    
    The As took the field against Portland As and looked a bit flat for the
    first 5-10 minutes.  That changed to outright dominance by Worcester as
    the rucks and mauls turned out beautiful ball to the Worcester backs
    who showed some nice handling and running.  Most of the scoring was
    done in the first half.  The unseasonable warmth of the day slowed the
    tempo down a bit in the second half (which will probably mean extra
    fitness work this week at training).  Final score, Worcester 23,
    Portland 0.
    
    The B match featured a full Worcester side (as usual) against a mixture
    of Portland Bs, As, and Old Boys.  They agreed to 35 minute halves. 
    The only time Worcester played in their own end was to field the
    kickoffs from Portland.  I even got in on the action when I took a pop
    up pass from the flyhalf as he was being tackled.  I lowered the
    shoulder and bulldozed by way toward the try zone.  I heard shouts of
    "put it down!  put it down!" and I figured someone was on me, so
    instead of trying to put it between the posts I kept straight ahead
    with my head down looking for the try line.  I spotted it and put it
    down, only to discover it was the deadball line.  I had run completely
    through the tryzone and instead of scoring my first try of the season
    (and first one in years), I ended up giving Portland a 22 meter
    dropout.  The Worcester domination continued in the second half.  So
    much so that after Worcester knocked a ball on while trying to touch
    down for yet another try, the ref (a Portland A-side player) blew full
    time with 10 minutes left in the match.  Final score, Worcester 28,
    Portland 0.
    
    The win over Portland gave us a 6-1 record in the Maxwell League.  This
    was good enough to guarantee us a wild card spot in the Eastern
    Territorial Division II playoffs.  We will play the second place team
    from Upstate NY Union next Saturday (Nov. 2) in Worcester.  The winner
    of that game will go on to face Monmouth, winner of the Met-NY Union,
    in NJ on Nov. 16.  Burlington (NERFU Maxwell League Champs) will play
    the Upstate NY champs that Saturday.  The winners of these games will
    meet on Sunday, Nov. 17 in NJ to decide who will go on to compete for
    the USARE Div. II crown in New Orleans on Dec. 7.
8.1227WRFC Schedule ChangesCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 28 1991 11:558
    Because Worcester earned a spot in the USARE Div. II playoffs, there
    have been some schedule changes.  The schedule for the remainder of the
    year is as follows:
    
    Nov.  2	Runner-up Upstate NY Union	Home
    Nov.  9	No match
    Nov. 16	Northeast Regionals		NJ
    Dec.  7	USARE Div. II Championship	New Orleans
8.1228Damm, I was really looking 4ward to seeing my 1st matchCST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Mon Oct 28 1991 12:239
    Re:-1
    
    Does that mean that the 'Saw vs. Mac contest which was scheduled for
    11/9 isn't going to happen?
    
    Does that mean I have to erase that date from my calendar?
    
    Kev
    
8.1229CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Mon Oct 28 1991 12:4935
Damn you, MacNeal, I was hoping for a chance to let you see if you
could get yer head into my jaw for the better part of an afternoon.  8^)


Seriously, CONGRATULATIONS! And BEST O' LUCK TO YA!


Guess the vaunted Worcester-Hartford match has to wait until the spring.


And Mac, a big "Unlucky" on the try.

I came almost close myself.  We were awarded a penalty on about their
two meter line.  Normally we have a play called "Denver" down there, but
the scrum half was from the old Boys, and he didn't give us a direction
or anything.  We forwards were set to run Denver.

He clapped, moved the ball through the mark, and we forwards charged.
I was closest to him, and he put the ball into my gut, and I saw try
line, and was starting to get low to dive, but as I clamped my arms
down, no ball.....  He'd pulled it at the last second (faked me outta
my shoes) and spun it out the back line.

If he'd have left it there, I'd have scored, I'm sure....8^(

Oh well....



On a serious note, is it official that the fixture against HWRFC is
abandoned?  If so, it probably means that we will end up our season
in Albany this Saturday.....


'Saw_who's_happy_for_WRFC_but_as_sad_as_the_Braves_for_HWRFC....
8.1230CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 28 1991 14:3810
8.1231CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Mon Oct 28 1991 15:0435
8.1232BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Oct 28 1991 15:2828
8.1233CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Mon Oct 28 1991 16:3539
8.1234CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 28 1991 17:4421
8.1235IAMOK::WASKOMMon Oct 28 1991 18:1915
    'Saw is being somewhat modest here, folks.  In my opinion, he played
    his best game ever on Saturday.  Several of the A-side players (and I
    wish I could remember who they were for him) had lots of good stuff to
    say about his game.  I particularly remember one really tremendous
    tackle, which in all probability saved a try for Mystics.
    
    I'm disappointed that the Worcester/Hartford match is off.  I was
    planning on using it as a recruiting tool for my kid -- and both teams
    lose on that one.  I was also looking forward to having a Noters
    get-together in conjunction with it.  :-(  
    
    This also means that Saturday was probably my last game of the season,
    as I won't be going to Albany.  Bummer.
    
    A&W
8.1236CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 28 1991 18:454
8.1237CAM::WAYGo Wahoos!Tue Oct 29 1991 10:1115
A&W --

Thanks for the good words.  

I think sometimes I concentrate so hard on what I have to work on to
improve that that's all I think about.


Mac --

If I wasn't going to Albany I'd be on the sidelines, sucking down rugby
fuel, rooting you on.....


'Saw
8.1238BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Oct 29 1991 12:2526
Mac,
	What's the point of the playoffs?  We're going to have one, too,
against the New York Union.  Does it seed us somewhere?  Territorials 
next year?  I thought all 8 regions were offered slots at Territorials, so
I don't see the point...  Don't they usually seed from the previous year's
Territorials?
	I told Cyndy about your "try".  She said to tell you about what
she did in Philly.  She got the ball (she was playing second row) and
made a great run down the field, pulled all sorts of moves on the oppostion
(I think this was the FSU game, too, the big game), got way down field,
and passed the ball to the other team.  I think the moral of the story
is, let he/she who hasn't pulled a really dumb move in a game throw the
first stone.  
	Whenever I hear about someone else making that sort of boo-boo, I'm
happy for them because it makes me feel better about the ones I make.  Nice,
huh?  But it's nice to know other people make errors too.  We're all humans
out there playing that game.

Alison, you could always come to Boston and watch us play Washington.  But
your son would probably get more attention at the men's game.  :^)

And Saw, congrats on being a star.  


Rachael
8.1239CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Oct 29 1991 12:4218
8.1240CAM::WAYFunky Cold EdwinaTue Oct 29 1991 12:5940
For Division I, this is the way I've been told that it works.


Three Unions are involved in the Northeast Regional Playoffs:

		Upstate New York
		New England
		Met Union

The winners of each make up three of the four teams in the tournament.

The fourth team is decided in a wildcard game between the second place
team in the Upstate and the second place team in New England.  Met Union
is smaller so gets no wildcard.

The four teams, play each other on a Saturday.  I'm not sure how the
pairings work.  Last year it was Old Blue (Met) vs Hartford (WC) and
Albany (Upstate) vs Mystic(NE)...

On Sunday the two winners have a grand and glorious punch up to see
who's going to the Eastern Regional (the Sweet 16 if you will).
This is usually held in Florida or Atlanta, due to the weather up north.

The winner of the Eastern Regional will advance to the Final Four
held in the spring.


As to seedings, I don't know how other leagues work, but in New England,
your schedule is determined by how you finished the year before.
Thus, Mystic River's first game next year will be against the last
place finisher of this year.   If you finish high, your schedule goes
easiest to hardest.  If you finish low, you get the painful games
outta the way and end easier...


hope this helps,
'saw


PS  Rachael, thanks (blush, blush)
8.1241Havard NERFU ChampsCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 30 1991 11:3412
    Harvard captured the New England Collegiate Div. I crown this past
    weekend in Worcester.  They breezed through the regular season allowing
    only 15 points to be scored against them the entire fall.  They beat
    Brown so badly in the tournament final on Sunday that I was told Brown
    just packed it in early and went through the motions.
    
    I found out last night that Worcester will face the Rochester Colonials
    this Saturday in the wild card game.  Since they apparently travel
    light, our B-side will be playing Boston's C-side.  The games will be
    played at Quinsigamond State Park in Worcester.  Kick-off of the first
    match will be at 1 pm.  We are very glad it is New England's turn to
    host the wild card game this year.  Rochester would be quite a haul.
8.1242CAM::WAYMUNG, the #1 WORST TreatWed Oct 30 1991 11:4423
>    I found out last night that Worcester will face the Rochester Colonials
>    this Saturday in the wild card game.  Since they apparently travel
>    light, our B-side will be playing Boston's C-side.  The games will be



Boston's C side -- Bunch of Young Studs.

If you are playing prop, please, please, please drive your skull into
their hookers jaw for me, will you?   He was the most un-fun guy
I've ever played against.  8^)

Actually, he was All-East in college, and a very good hooker.


Of course, I have a feeling that you'll be playing A side tighthead...



And Mac, you know you'd look really good in GREEN and BLACK...hint, hint....


'Saw
8.1243CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 30 1991 11:579
8.1244CAM::WAYMUNG, the #1 WORST TreatWed Oct 30 1991 12:2518
8.1245CAM::WAYMUNG, the #1 WORST TreatWed Oct 30 1991 13:3210
In the Consolation Game to determine 3rd and 4th place in the 
World Cup, played at Cardiff:


		NEW ZEALAND  15
		SCOTLAND      3



'SAW
8.1246CAM::WAYMUNG, the #1 WORST TreatWed Oct 30 1991 15:1715
A saying a friend of mine told me, which applies to marathon running,
but while thinking on it today during my measly 3 miler, I thought it
applies just as well, if not better, to rugby:


	
		It's not the commitment to win,
		it's the commitment to prepare to win.


Hope that helps a few ruggers during those long off-season workouts...



'Saw
8.1247Wallaby World ChampionsEDUOZ::THURGARWed Oct 30 1991 20:5242
    I am glad to see that you have had WC updates in my absence. A quick
    summary on the games of last week:
    
    England V Scotland
    
    Typical 5 nations rugby. Kick into the bos, get territory. Kick a goal.
    Very dour and not entertaining, but effective. Especially the forward
    play. It was not a good game to advertise or promote rugby. The backs
    never got to touch the ball.
    
    Aust V New Zealand.
    
    This was the best match of international rugby I have ever seen. I
    could not sleep for hours afterwards. The first 35 minutes was the best
    attacking rugby with David Campese playing brilliantly and the backs
    running the angles superbly. The next 45 minutes was the best defensive
    rugby. The All Blacks had possession but couldn't score. It was huge.
    The Wallabies played like a team possessed and determined to win the
    WC. If you get a chance to watch one game of rugby on video this would
    be it. It was a clinic by both sides in all aspects. The team showed so
    much composure beating the Irish and now the Blacks. I just wonder if
    they have anything left. I hope they dont think that the Blacks game
    was there final.
    
    I have said all along that England are a good side and they will be
    hard to beat at home. If they refuse to run the ball against the
    Wallabies, and we play as we did against the All Blacks, then running
    rugby will rule. I cant wait till Saturday night.
    
    Scotland V New Zealand.
    
    Both teams tried hard and blew lots of opportunities. They just could
    not complete back line movements - incompetence in the backs. Gavin
    Hastings of Scotland is the best fullback in the world. The All Black
    forwards were dominant and Michael Jones is the ultimate breakaway.
    
    What do you want to be??
    
    
    A WALLA WALLA BE !!!
    
    Madge
8.1248CAM::WAYMUNG, the #1 WORST TreatThu Oct 31 1991 09:167
I had the score of the All-Blacks - Scotland match wrong.  (thank the folks
in the rugby file)

Correct score

		NZ       13
		Scotland  6
8.1249CAM::WAYAnd all I got was a rockThu Oct 31 1991 12:406
Went back into the gym lasted night, for the first time since I busted
up my hand.

Boy, does 6 weeks off tell when you start pumping iron again!

'Saw
8.1250Good luck to AustraliaCTHQ3::LEARYBetter than LDSThu Oct 31 1991 13:2416
    Madge,
    All my joshing about the Wallaby's aside, congratulations on 
    defeating NZ and good luck in the finals. I hope you beat the English 
    team to a bloody pulp! 8^)
    
    'Saw, Go get 'em,but watch those wrist and finger curls!
    
    Do any of you RugbyKrishnas know where the rugby finals can be found 
    on TV, either live or hilites? Much obliged.
    I'm still a-studyin' my rugby primer. As I told Mac, maybe I'll meet
    you at the pitch while you're scrummin fer a maul. Or is it meet you
    at the maul while you're pitchin fer a scrum!! 8^)
    
    
    MikeL
    
8.1251And always remember to shake hands....CAM::WAYAnd all I got was a rockThu Oct 31 1991 14:0837
Madge --

	I'm still keepin' my fingers crossed.  #2 is FINE with me!!!!

	Go Wallabies!

    
>    'Saw, Go get 'em,but watch those wrist and finger curls!

Heh, heh, heh....

I'd be satisfied with muscle mass, not necessarily definition.
    

>    Do any of you RugbyKrishnas know where the rugby finals can be found 
>    on TV, either live or hilites? Much obliged.

Sports Channel is running highlights, but they are behind.  Rachael
evidently found a bar that showed last weeks England Scotland game.

You must be able to get it on Satellite or something, because the
Mystics Club house was showing a tape of England-France.  You should
have seen the French prop blubbering away during La Marseillese....


>    I'm still a-studyin' my rugby primer. As I told Mac, maybe I'll meet
>    you at the pitch while you're scrummin fer a maul. Or is it meet you
>    at the maul while you're pitchin fer a scrum!! 8^)

Ok, Mike, here's a rule of thumb for you:

	You maul on defense, especially in your own end,
	You ruck on offense, especially in their end.
    

As a spectator, stay in touch and you're all set. 8^)

8.1252CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 31 1991 14:3514
8.1253RugbyKrishnas - MikeL better (tm) that baby!CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Thu Oct 31 1991 15:341
    
8.1254BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Oct 31 1991 16:0113
I saw it in a bar across from the Commonwealth Brewery, I don't know the name
but it was extremely Irish.  Something like Paddy O'Rourkes or the equivalent.
They had a BFTV,  (Large Screen TV), as well as two regular ones.

Madge, 	I had the same reaction to that game that you did.  It was so exciting,
it's hard not to get riled up when I think about it.

Rachael

PS We're supposed to play Washington this weekend.  They're going to come
up and play us and Boston.   I'll be really surprised if they show, but
our captain thinks they will.  More news tomorrow.

8.1255Thumbs up for Plough & StarsGEMVAX::HILLThu Oct 31 1991 17:1616
    Plough & Stars is a_excellent bar for viewing Rugby/Soccer. I was there
    for the Olympique Marseille-Red Star Belgrade Soccer Club Cahmpionship
    last spring. They have a sattelite dish,as they picked the game up live
    from Bari on Italian TV. The flavoUr of the bar was definitely Irish, and 
    they had lots of rugby parephenalia on disply.
    
    Here's an item from "The Economist" that you ruggers would enjoy:
    
    "Teachers were warned not to join in staff-against-pupil rugby matches.
    The Assistant Masters and Mistress Association is worried that World
    Cup euphoria may set off `some combative, over robust performances;'
    teachers who tackle and injure a child could be sued."
    
    Rugby players over-robust?? Say it ain't so!
    
    Tom
8.1256Mucho graciasCTHQ3::LEARYBetter than LDSThu Oct 31 1991 17:546
    Thanks all. Doubt if I will be able to catch it live(9:30 AM in a bar
    and they ain't showin' ND foosball.Don't think the wife would buy
    this one!). Have to catch the hilites.
    
    MikeL
    
8.1257Fingers CrossedEDUOZ::THURGARThu Oct 31 1991 20:3226
    At least you get the coverage at a decent hour. The coverage starts
    1.00am Sunday in Sydney. So it will be a very late drunken evening.
    
    No predictions, but I pray that Australia win.
    
    My concerns are that we may be let down after beating the All Blacks
    and the fact that we are playing them on there own home ground with
    there crowd. It will be a great truimph for Australia. England have
    done well to get this far, but they are not the team to call World
    Champions. Aust beat them earlier this year and the All Blacks beat
    them in the first round of the WC. Aust has only been beaten by the All
    Blacks in the Bledisloe Cup game (9-6) in the pouring rain in New
    Zealand. We have beaten the All Blacks twice this year. So in my books
    the Wallabies are the best side in the world. Now they just have to
    prove it.
    
    I just hope you all dont have to console me on Monday.
    
    What do you want to be ???
    
    
    A WALLA WALLA BE.
    
    Go Australia 
    
    Madge
8.1258BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Nov 01 1991 10:317
Well, it looks like our game is on for tomorrow.  We'll be at the bar
I mentioned earlier for the finals, then over to the field.  Mac, if
you're in town for the finals, you could come watch our game...

I'm hoping for Wallabies as well.  I think England could win, but shouldn't.

Rachael
8.1259CAM::WAYAnd all I got was a rockFri Nov 01 1991 10:508
Tie me kangaroo down sport, tie me kangaroo down....


I'll go a-waltzin' with you....



Go Wallabies!
8.1260Lots o' Rugby in Worcester TomorrowCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Nov 01 1991 11:3221
    Thanks for the offer, Rachael, but there is a full slate of rugby going
    on in Worcester on Saturday.  Hopefully it will include breakfast while
    watching the WC final.  We have a lead on a place that has a dish and
    we're just waiting for confirmation.
    
    The Worcester Shamrocks (the women's team) have a game at 11 am at
    Chandler Jr. High on Chandler St. in Worcester (across from Worcester
    State).  They played their first (maybe their second) game last week
    and put in a respectable performance against Boston.  Boston was
    supposed to send out their B side since the Shamrocks only have 2 or 3
    players who have ever played the game before.  The side turned out to
    be primarily their A side with only 5 B players on the roster.
    
    The Faded Blacks (Worcester's over-30/35 team) plays the Boston Old
    Boys at 11:30 am at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave in Worcester. 
    Believe it or not, I'll be refereeing the match.
    
    Worcester's A-side will play the Rochester Colonials at 1 pm at
    Quinsigamond State Park in the Northeast Regional Wild Card Match.  The
    B-side will take on Boston's C-side immediately following.  I'll be at
    lock for the Bs.
8.1261What I say vs. what I do...be warned....;^)CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Fri Nov 01 1991 13:1021
    Hey, I gots my own religion, thank you but ya see I have this
    friend who is a RugbyKrishna and who plays on on of those
    Over-the-Hill-35 teams and he told me that he'll be playin in Woostah
    on Saturday.
    
    I have it on excellent authority that on Monday, we'll be able to,
    without fear of lawsuits based on slander, be permitted to officially
    label a certain occasional-non-democratic-type (hint, lasted name
    starts with MacNeal ;*)
    
    
    
    
    			a CLEMSON REF!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    schlep THAT.....
    
    Kev
    
    
8.1262ModestEDUOZ::THURGARSun Nov 03 1991 03:2723
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS
    
    Madge
8.1263Not Happy at allEDUOZ::THURGARSun Nov 03 1991 03:2814
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    12-6 Australia win WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS
    
    Madge
    
8.1264DeservingEDUOZ::THURGARSun Nov 03 1991 03:3827
    Apologies for the last two notes but I am so happy and excited. This is
    the biggest sporting victory for Australia since we won the Americas
    Cup (IMHO).
    
    The game was not the dour spectacle that everyone expected. England
    tried to run the ball. Australia played OK, but not as well as they
    played against the All Blacks. The referee was shocking. When will they
    learn that people come to watch rugby and people want to see Campese
    run and Guscott and Underwood run. Not watch some ref want to be the
    centre of attention by constantly blowing the play up. International
    line outs are a joke. The resetting of scrums after collapse or through
    the 90 when the ball is about to come out is ridiculous. The Northern
    Hemisphere refs better learn about a rule called offside if they want
    to open the game up more as a spectacle.
    
    Australia made the most of its opportunities, whilst England could not
    crack our sensational defense. I am glad that we are champions as IMHO
    we truly deserve to be.
    
    I take my hat off to my team as they are the best I have ever seen. I
    look forward to seeing them when they get back.
    
    A good game overall but not a great final. The two games that will
    stick in my mind from this WC will be Aust V All Blacks (#1) and Aust V
    Ireland (#2). Watch them if you ever get a chance.
    
    A Very Happy and Delighted Madge
8.1265In VerseEDUOZ::THURGARMon Nov 04 1991 03:4914
    There's a spirit in the Wallabies
    Mere words cannot describe
    It's as if they had descended
    From some legendary tribe
    
    There's a kinship, a tradition,
    As in days so long since past
    Of crusades, of knights in armour
    And of men before the mast
    
    Verse told to the Wallabies before the World Cup final
    
    Madge
    
8.1266The Running GameEDUOZ::THURGARMon Nov 04 1991 03:5111
    It isnt just the winning
    Nor the scoring, nor the cheers
    It's the friendship and the memories
    That last you through the years
    
    It's the camaraderie
    That's born of valour, not of fame,
    It's the sheer exhiliration
    When you play the RUNNING GAME.
    
    Madge
8.1267PomsEDUOZ::THURGARMon Nov 04 1991 03:5510
    Alan Jones, ex Wallaby coach and no friend of current coach Bob Dwyer
    said in his column : "He's got his team now at the top of the tree, and
    anyone who seekd to diminish that is a mug".
    
    The column by Evan Whitton (English writer) proclaimed that England
    deserved to win and Australia were just lucky. He said England were the
    better team. If I find him he is dead. Poms just cant stop whingeing.
    
    Madge
    
8.1268CAM::WAYTo shuffle off this mortal coilMon Nov 04 1991 08:5228
Madge -- HEARTIEST CONGRATULATIONS!


We here in the States who DON'T have satellite dishes, got to see the
Wallabies first game (Argentina) highlights yesterday afternoon on 
Sports Channel.  Nick Farr-Jones was complaining about the Wallabies
scrumming.  Phil Kearns got hurt, and was replaced. 8^(


At any rate, I am very, very happy for you.  


And now I'll relate a funny story another Aussie friend of mine sent
me:

	It seems that late in the second half of the Final, the
	Australian coach jumped up and exhorted his team to "Kick
	it to the shithouse".

	Only as he sat back down did he remember that the lady in
	red seated behind him was Her Majest, the Queen of England.


I thought that was pretty funny.....


Congrats again!
'Saw
8.1269Hartford Ends the Season on an Up Note, Saw gets schooled.CAM::WAYTo shuffle off this mortal coilMon Nov 04 1991 09:1866
In a much more modest setting on Saturday, Hartford, Springfield and
Albany got together in Springfield.  It was to be the wrapup of
Hartford's season.....


The first game, Hartford's Bs against Springfield's As was of great interest
to me, as I got selected at hooker.  Before the game started I was
a nervous wreck, because I've never played as a B, nor have I ever played
against As.

The match started out fairly well.  Hartford out-rucked and out-mauled 
Springfield, but their backline was better than ours.   The lineouts
were about 50-50, but I thought I was throwing very poorly.

A stupid play by one of our flankers resulted in Springfields first try.
With out lineout almost formed, and me about 5 meters from the mark,
he decided to chuck the ball long on a quick lineout.  It fooled no one,
and what ended up happening was me trying to defend against two Springfield
backs near the sideline about 15 meters out.  I didn't get suckered and
stayed with the outside back when the pass came.  All I got was a bit
of jersey however as he blew by.

I got burned on the sidelines two more times like that during the game.
The last time I had the guy, but a quick, rising forearm to my throat
persuaded me to release my grip.  Unfortunately, the old forearm to the
throat is quite a persuader.

We didn't have a scrummage until about 30 minutes into the game, and
Springfield's hooker took me to school.  

He also schooled me on their lineouts.  They run a tap play alot that
runs back up the alley formed between the beginning of the lineout,
and the sideline.  As a hooker, that's my area to defend.  Everytime
time they ran that play, I'd be just planting and ready to make the tackle
and their hooker would plow me into the end of the lineout.  He and I 
talked about it afterwards, and as I thought, it is illegal, but most
refs never call it.

Hartford ended up losing something like a thousand to three.


Springfields Bs played Albanys Bs, but I didn't watch.  As it was our
last game of the season, I was getting in a bit of socializing before the
offseason, and swapping phone numbers.

Hartford's As played Albanys As.  Albany had Eagle Joe Burke, just returned
from America's illustrious 0-3 showing in England, playing center for them.
Glen Judge, our Eagle, was out with a twisted ankle, so Al Deken filled
in at flyhalf.

We just overwhelmed them.  I don't remember the final score but we scored
tries like they were going out of style.  Albany scored one, I believe.


It was a nice way to end the season.  While we wanted a shot at the tournament,
my body is saying "I'm glad the season is over"....   Losing like B side
did, I learned a lot about what I have to work on over the offseason.

Cahal said to me after the game "You've lost weight."  I thought he was
bustin' on me (good-naturedly) because all the guys know I have a problem
with my weight.  I said "Sure, bust on the fat guy", but he said "No, it
looks like you've dropped some pounds".  Got on the scale this morning
and I'm at 227.  Now, if I can get under 220 for the spring season.....


'Saw
8.1270CAM::WAYTo shuffle off this mortal coilMon Nov 04 1991 09:2838
At the drinkup following the game, I learned some very interesting tidbits
from Joe Burke, Eagle center, who was in England for the World Cup.


There's a lot of unrest on the team.  

Some folks are disgruntled about the fullback, who, in wanting to preserve
his selection, doesn't want to make any mistakes.  He'll run back behind
the 22 and kick for touch more often than not, instead of trying to make
something happen running forward.

Kevin Higgins, the fastest guy on the team, has been concussed four times
in the last two months.  When I remarked that if he wasn't careful he'd
end up like Ali, Joe told me that if he wasn't careful, he'd end up dead.

I guess Daly, the Kiwi scrumhalf was really pissed about not getting selected
for the New Zealand game, as he wanted to play against his former countrymen.
I'm not sure if it was before or after, but at one point, the coaches
caught him in a bar at 2am, and he wasn't drinking coca-cola.

Probably the biggest gripes though, are that the foreign born players
on the team feel we can't win, and that tends to color their play.  Younger
Americans, who want to get out there and take it to them, and try to
win, aren't getting selected.

And of course, the perennial argument about the fact that the ERU select
side has beaten up the other territories recently, yet the selections
are still coming from Pacific Coast....


Hopefully, but the time 1995 rolls around, we'll have a bunch of young
studs wearing the red jersey, who want to kick ass and take names....


Oh, to have Lawrence Taylor on the squad 8^)


'Saw
8.1271The right team wonEUSEBE::STURTTotally wiredMon Nov 04 1991 09:3846
8.1272BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 04 1991 11:5453
8.1273Old Pacific SeaBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 04 1991 12:0143
I had to write back to MIT for this one.  Brought to their men's team
by a Kiwi.

Rachael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old Pacific Sea

Chorus:
	Drink it up, drink it up, drink it up,
	Crack another dozen tubes and prawns with me,
	If you want to throw your voice
	Mate, you've got no bloody choice,
	But to chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

	I was down on Bondi pier,
	Drinking tubes of ice-cold beer,
	With a bucket full of prawns upon my knee.
	When I'd swallowed the last prawn,
	I had a technicolor yawmm
	And I chundered in the old Pacific Sea.

	I was sitting in the surf,
	When a mate of mine called Murph
	Asked if he could crack a tube or two with me.
	The bastard barely swallowed it,
	WHen he went for the big spit,
	ANd he chundered in the old Pacific Sea!

	I've had liquid laughs in bars,
	ANd I've hurled from moving cars,
	And I've chuckled where and when it suited me.
	But if I could choose the spot,
	To regurgitate me lot,
	Then I'd chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

	From the snowy mountains high,
	TO the rocky deserts low,
	Australia has the finest scenery.
	But the tourists in their flocks,
	All go down to Sydney docks,
	Just to chunder in the old Pacific Sea!

8.1274CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Mon Nov 04 1991 12:2327
>Old Pacific Sea


I am ROLLING!


And yes Rachael, it's true, it was a flanker that made that mistake.
And I don't want to upset you too much, but he made another deadly
one too.  This time we were five meters out, awarded a penalty, and
as we were setting up to run Denver (our forwards crash) he moved the
ball through the mark and spun it out.  Our backs got murdered about 10 yards
back.

Doc, who's normally very quiet even when Captaining a side, yelled out
"What the f___ are you DOING?"


Not a good day.....

I'm still sore, but the season is over...  

The toughest thing I'm finding about hooker is that I had just learned
to keep my butt down as a prop, and now I'm having to do it all over
again as a hooker, and I really haven't figured it out yet 8^)


'Saw
8.1275What would Al Davis say about such a sport?GUSHER::WAUGAMANMon Nov 04 1991 12:428
    
    Ruggers suspended for being out at night drinking, 'Saw?  For shame!
    You guys have just blown your cover!  This isn't crocquet, is it?
    
    ;-)
    
    glenn
    
8.1276CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Mon Nov 04 1991 13:0531
>    Ruggers suspended for being out at night drinking, 'Saw?  For shame!
>    You guys have just blown your cover!  This isn't crocquet, is it?
    
heh, heh, heh....

Believe it or not, the Eagles have a very strict regime that probably
closely parallels what goes on on some football teams.  They've got
a curfew, and they have to stay in shape and all....

When they were in Hartford, I had a chance to talk with their trainer.
I was very impressed because he was knowledgable and friendly.

But Daly wasn't suspended.  He'd not been selected for the NZ game and
he was pissed, but I don't think being in the bar had anything to do
with not getting a selection in the England game.

(BTW, the player of the game in the England game was an American, or
so I heard).....


I don't know where the Eagles are going from here.  They have a new
coach, and I know Glen was saying that it's entirely possible that he
might never play with the Eagles again, because when you get a new
coach things get shaken up.  He is however gonna be in the ITT, and
a good performance there will definitely go a long way towards Eagle
selection (another 60 yrd penalty kick couldn't hurt either...)    


Have to wait and see.....
'Saw

8.1277CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Mon Nov 04 1991 13:5713
Oh yeah, I had another first this weekend:

	My first collapsed scrum at hooker.   YIKES!


Now I know what Christ felt like on the Cross....


It was scary.  Fortunately my head kinda slid sideways and not directly
DOWN under my neck....


'Saw
8.1278Worcester advances in USARE PlayoffsCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 04 1991 14:1035
    Saturday was a great day for Worcester.  The Faded Blacks got us
    started off with a 25-12 victory over the Boston Old Boys.  This was
    their first victory of the season.  It was a good team effort as the
    forwards won a good amount of ball in the setpieces and in the loose. 
    The backs handled what ball they got very well.
    
    The As then took the pitch against the Rochester Colonials for the
    Northeast Region Wild Card spot.  The game was never in doubt as
    Worcester scored early on a penalty kick and then started piling up the
    points.  Unlike the Portland and Old Gold games where we came roaring
    out in the first half and then faded in the second half, Worcester kept
    up the pressure and the scoring for the whole match.  We won 39-0 and
    will play Monmouth in New York in 2 weeks.  The Upstate New York champ
    was Windover (they play outside of Schenectady) who will play
    Burlington that weekend.
    
    The B-side played Boston's Cs with a few Worcester players thrown in. 
    This was easily the best pack of forwards we had faced all season.  If
    it weren't for our backs, we would have been in deep trouble.  Lineouts
    were about 50/50, but our scrummaging was weak.  I started out as a
    lock but ended up at tight head prop due to an injury.  Boston's
    loosehead was the best I've played against since I came back from
    Texas.  I was not particularly happy with my performance in the scrums. 
    After the match, the Boston players commented that the major difference
    between the two squads was our forward's effort in the loose play. 
    Looking back I'd say he was probably right, but only in the second
    half.  We were getting beaten to the ball in the first half but changed
    that around in the second half.  Boston forced us to make a couple of
    tenacious defensive stands, but in the end, Worcester came out on top
    16-4.  Boston avoided the shutout by scoring a try in the corner off a
    lineout with no time left.
    
    'Saw, you were right about their hooker.  I did bore in a couple of
    times just for you (well, for me too).  Our coach was reffing the game
    and quietly warned me to stop during an injury timeout.
8.1279CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Mon Nov 04 1991 15:409
>    'Saw, you were right about their hooker.  I did bore in a couple of
>    times just for you (well, for me too).  Our coach was reffing the game
>    and quietly warned me to stop during an injury timeout.


Congrats! Mac....


And thanks 8^)
8.1280CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Mon Nov 04 1991 15:5811
And for all us ruggers:

	Tomorrow, 11/5 is:

		National "My Wife doesn't understand my need for Rugby" Day


Straight off my Gren calendar....


'Saw
8.1281CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 04 1991 18:1417
    Congratulations to the Wallabies.  From what I've been able to read
    about the WC, they certainly earned their World Championship.
    
    There will be some changes in the US squad.  Jim Perkins, the coach,
    announced his retirement.  Two players have also retired (I want to say
    Hein and Higgens, but I'm not sure).  Rumor has it that the US may not
    qualify for the WC in 1995 due to some changes in the qualification
    criteria.  The US has invited Italy, Hong Kong, and a couple of other
    "minor" rugby playing nations to come over and supplement the annual
    tests against Canada.
    
    Kevin Swords, lock from Beacon Hill (Boston, MA), is the most capped
    player in US history.  He captained the squad against New Zealand since
    the tour captain was injured and the vice captain was not selected. 
    This was only the 2nd or 3rd time in 28 chances that Swords was named
    to the captaincy.  One of the British papers selected Swords to their
    World XV team as captain after his performance against the All Blacks.
8.1282BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Nov 05 1991 12:1111
Hey Mac, 
	Congratulations on a great season.  If you win against upstate New
York, does that mean I'll be seeing you in Baton Rouge in December?  That
would be fun, assuming the KKK hasn't gained control of the state by then.

Saw, I alternate between being bummed that we only have three weekends left,
two of which I might not play in, and being jealous that you can already
start regular running and lifting.  The weights in our house are calling
my name, they look very lonely.

Rachael
8.1283Off season work out...testosterone rush!CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Tue Nov 05 1991 13:2325
Rush and a half last night.


Never having worked extensively with free weights, and belonging to a
small gym that's never too crowded, I decided to make the switch to
free weights, and get some instruction in proper technique.  I guess
being a prop has clued me into "technique being everything".

So, I spent last evening getting to know those iron plates and metal
bars.  The way my program will work is a transition from Nautilus to
free weights, working basic free weight exercises into my routine.

We worked out good starting weights for squats, straight bench press,
lat pulldowns, dumbell lateral raises, straight bar curls, tricep pushdowns.

I'm psyched....

I can already see why squats are vitally important to a front row player.


Now all I have to do is get my diet in order, and hopefully things will
work out well.   Any rugger diet tips are welcome....


'Saw
8.1284CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 05 1991 15:128
8.1285CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 05 1991 15:156
8.1286Squats -->MegaButt!GENRAL::WADEGimme the beat boysTue Nov 05 1991 15:4810
    
    	Attaboy 'Saw!  You're finally doing some real lifting :^)
    
    	Make damn sure you use correct form when squatting.  Also,
    	always ask for a spot and use the safety bars.  Get yourself
    	a good belt too.  Let's see, what else?  Oh yeah, wrap those
    	knees when you start getting up to 300 and over.  You'll have
    	to find somebody who knows the wrap technique to teach you.
    
    	Claybroon
8.1287CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Tue Nov 05 1991 16:0747
8.1288'Saw: Future RoboProp in Training :^)GENRAL::WADEGimme the beat boysTue Nov 05 1991 16:381
    
8.1289sore glutes if done rightGENRAL::WADEGimme the beat boysTue Nov 05 1991 16:406
    
    	Oh, and one other thang.  If you're doin' 'em proper,
    	your butt will grow too!  You'll be stackin' plates in
    	no time.  ;^)
    
    	Claybroon
8.1290CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 05 1991 18:053
    For ideas on proper diet, pick up the books "Eat to Win" and "The
    Athlete's Kitchen".  The second one is really good for the single
    athlete without much time/motivation to cook.
8.1291Hernia ???EDUOZ::THURGARTue Nov 05 1991 18:2412
    'Saw - as a weight lifter also, and it being in my blood (my
    father was an Australian Champion), I will pass on his advice to me:
    
    It is not what you lift, but how you lift it (technique not weight).
    
    For building bulk - high weight low reps
    
    For more strength and stamina - lower weight higher reps
    
    Good Lifting
    
    Madge
8.1292CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Tue Nov 05 1991 18:4135
Thanks all.

Yes, Claybone, my butt is sore today.  So are my quads, biceps (back of leg),
and ankles.


Mac, I've got Eat to Win, I'll have to read it.  I'll look for the Athlete's
kitchen....



>    'Saw - as a weight lifter also, and it being in my blood (my
>    father was an Australian Champion), I will pass on his advice to me:
>    
>    It is not what you lift, but how you lift it (technique not weight).
    
Thanks!

Mike stressed technique with me last night.  He also told me NOT to
be self-conscious about how much (or really little) weight I might be
using.  

He told me that if I work correctly, and steadily, and am consistent,
that results will come, both in the mirror and on the bar.


BTW, Madge, your buddy Phil is quite the speciman.  I don't know how
tall he is, but he's pretty bulked up, and DAMN is he fast!



Ran 2.5 at lunch today.  Legs felt strangely light after the squats last
night, and the run went smoothly ( I figured it would be hell)....

'Saw
8.1293WRFC Spring '92 ScheduleCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 05 1991 18:4517
    The Worcester Spring Schedule is now available.
    
    March 26	Connecticut Yankees	Stamford, CT
    April  4	MIT			Cambridge, MA
          11	Central MA Collegiate 
    		 Tournament		Worcester, MA
          18	Berkshire		Pittsfield, MA
          25	Charles River		Home
    May    2	Rockaway		Home
           9	Albany			Home
          16	New England Tournament	TBA
    	  30	Old Gold		Boston, MA
    June   6	Portland Tournament	Portland, ME
          13	Alumni Social Event	TBA
    
    All home games are played at Quinsigimond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Matches start at 1 pm.
8.1294CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Tue Nov 05 1991 18:5936
>    The Worcester Spring Schedule is now available.
>    
>    March 26	Connecticut Yankees	Stamford, CT
>    April  4	MIT			Cambridge, MA
>          11	Central MA Collegiate 
>    		 Tournament		Worcester, MA
>          18	Berkshire		Pittsfield, MA
>          25	Charles River		Home
>    May    2	Rockaway		Home
>           9	Albany			Home
>          16	New England Tournament	TBA
>    	  30	Old Gold		Boston, MA
>    June   6	Portland Tournament	Portland, ME
>          13	Alumni Social Event	TBA
>    
>    All home games are played at Quinsigimond State Park on Lake Ave. in
>    Worcester, MA.  Matches start at 1 pm.


[with my best Scottish accent]

	Ah ye sissies, yer afraid to play the Wanderers cause ye
	know it would cost ye dearly.  We'd leave yer asses on
	the pitch, and ye'd have ta carry yer heads to the drinkup
	under yer arms.....


	But we love ye, we love ye...oh it hairts, it hairts


[lots of 8^)]

'Saw


PS  I'm bummed we don't get to play....
8.1295IAMOK::WASKOMTue Nov 05 1991 19:0911
    Further, neither of you plays Providence next spring, and it's looking
    more and more like I'll be watching their matches.  Going to be an
    interesting juggling act figuring out which of my buddies to go watch
    play.
    
    Have to talk to the match secretaries about this egregious scheduling
    error....... [mutter, mutter, mutter]  
    
    :-)  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1296CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Tue Nov 05 1991 19:5016
>    Further, neither of you plays Providence next spring, and it's looking
>    more and more like I'll be watching their matches.  Going to be an
>    interesting juggling act figuring out which of my buddies to go watch
>    play.

Never play a league opponent in the spring except for Tournaments. 8^)


Sounds like your best bet is the NE tournament in Newport.  Babe-a-lon
city!

Hell, if I've got my genetically superior musculature in place by then
I should clean up.....


'Saw
8.1297"The chairs around here sure are hard!"GENRAL::WADEGimme the beat boysTue Nov 05 1991 20:0710
re. squats again
    
    	'Saw, my electronic buddy, it's the day after the day after
    	that will have you moanin' and groanin'.  heh heh :^)
    
    	Claybroon
    
    	ps  I've heard lunges will help out in the speed department.
    	    You might even be able to beat Rich Gedman if you do them!
    	    I've never done them myself.........
8.1298Nobody but Chainsaw should read this! Private !!!!!CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Tue Nov 05 1991 22:1614
    Psst, hey 'Saw,
    
    
    
    
    	Wanna buy some 'roids????  If In the Spring you really a true
    hunk of masculine testosteronecarvedfromhurculese,  I won't tell'm
    how you did it!!!!!!!
    
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1299HUGEEDUOZ::THURGARWed Nov 06 1991 00:206
    'Saw
    
    Kearnsie is huge. About 5 foot 10 inches and over 16 stone. About 8%
    body fat. He trains every day. Now that is something to aim for.
    
    Madge7
8.1300CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Wed Nov 06 1991 09:3036
>    	'Saw, my electronic buddy, it's the day after the day after
>    	that will have you moanin' and groanin'.  heh heh :^)

Oh, I've always been what I call a 'second day' person.  
Quads are sore this morning, but isn't too bad.  Probably because my
butt's in better shape 8^)

>    	ps  I've heard lunges will help out in the speed department.
>    	    You might even be able to beat Rich Gedman if you do them!
>    	    I've never done them myself.........


What are lunges?  I've heard that squats can improve your speed.  I know
that my run yesterday felt easier, even though my quads were a little tight
on the downhill sections.  (I hate downhills anyway).



re Kev and the Juice...


Not on your life 8^).  First off, I don't want my 'nads to look like
Sun-maid Raisins.  Second, if I ever went into a roid rage on the field
I'd kill someone.  Third, I don't need zits on my arms and back, and
finally, I don't have a receeding hairline, and don't aim to get one
now 8^)

heh, heh, heh.....



Back in the gym tonight.  All I'm worried about are the squats.  Now I 
know why the guys don't do them during the season.....


'Saw
8.1301CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Wed Nov 06 1991 09:4813
>    Kearnsie is huge. About 5 foot 10 inches and over 16 stone. About 8%
>    body fat. He trains every day. Now that is something to aim for.
    
Madge,

A stone is 14 pounds, right?  So I've got him at at least 225!  Wow, that's
a BIG hooker.


I'll bet you folks down under are still elated!   


'Saw
8.1302BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Nov 06 1991 11:2230
Squats ==> explosive power ==> speed  
Also good for this are cleans.  I think lunges are marginally useful, but
they're a hell of a lot of fun to do.  

Saw, how to do lunges, at the risk of being corrected by everyone else in
the file.  We all have our pet ways of doing free weights.

First, hold the weight on your shoulders, perhaps a touch higher than for
a squat.

One way:
	Stand feet about shoulder lenght apart.  Take a big step forward, then
"lunge" till your back knee is near but not on the ground.  Front knee should
be over your foot, I think if it's in front of your foot too far, it will strain 
your knee.  Come back up without bouncing, feel the pull.  Adjust step size, 
foot placement, weight height, etc for safety, comfort, and effectiveness.
Alternate legs.

Other way:
	Step out in front.  Go up and down without moving your feet.  More
stable, less range of motion.

Oh yeah, keep your chin up, it's nice to do these facing a mirror so you can
make sure you're steady.

Rachael
  

PS My rugby diet = Eat all foods as desired.  But I think it I ate better, I'd
do better.  I'll look for The Athelete's Kitchen, also.
8.1303GENRAL::WADEGimme the beat boysWed Nov 06 1991 13:3515
    
    	Rachael's got it right on lunges.  I've always observed that
    	people alternate legs rather than reps on one then change.
    	Your resident gym rat can show you the proper form if you're
    	interested.  Like I said, I don't do 'em.  I prefer squats.
    	Alot of folks do both.
    
    	Don't forget your leg extensions, leg curls, and calf(sp?)
    	raises.  Strong calves will help with speed too.  Stretch 
    	them on the down motion as far as they will go and get all the
    	way up on your tippy toes on the up motion.
    
    	Dips are good for your lower pecs and tris.
    
    	Claybroon_who's_here_to_<CLAP>_PUMP_YOU_UP!
8.1304About 100 kilosEDUOZ::THURGARWed Nov 06 1991 18:3416
    'Saw,
    
    You are right 14 pounds = 1 stone
    		  1 kilo    = 2.2 pounds
    (we are metric here but I converted to stones for you, then I forgot
    that you may know how much a stone was).
    
    The whole Australian pack (or at least the tight five average 100
    kilos). Now you know why playing international rugby is so tough.
    
    Still smiling about the win. In fact we are going out tonight
    celebrating (more than likely rewatch one of the games)
    
    Keep training
    
    Madge
8.1305CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Thu Nov 07 1991 09:4929
>    You are right 14 pounds = 1 stone
>    		  1 kilo    = 2.2 pounds
>    (we are metric here but I converted to stones for you, then I forgot
>    that you may know how much a stone was).

I vaguely remember what a stone was from working with that English 
tech writer while I was in France.  When I first heard the expression,
it struck me as really funny.  Oh, he's about 14 stone, he'd say.....
    
>    The whole Australian pack (or at least the tight five average 100
>    kilos). Now you know why playing international rugby is so tough.

Whoa...

    
>    Still smiling about the win. In fact we are going out tonight
>    celebrating (more than likely rewatch one of the games)

I'm going out tonight too.  The Wanderers are having a little get
together in our bar to celebrate the end of the season.  While we
didn't make the playoffs (and the loss to Mystic River was anything
but an excellent loss) we did improve the quality of our play
immensely this year....
    
>    Keep training

Will do.  Was in the gym last night.  Felt SO pumped when I left.

'Saw
8.1306CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Thu Nov 07 1991 11:1321
The two Eagles who retired following the World Cup were

	Williams (FB) and Higgins (W)

Williams stated that his doctor told him in January to retire, because
he has damaged his neck and continued play could cause paralysis.

I'm sure Higgins retired because he didn't want his brains looking
like cauliflower after another concussion....


Both have been pretty banged up.



Of all the Eagles, Kevin Swords by far has won the most respect from the
rest of the world.  Look to see Swords named Captain more often in the
future, I'd bet.


'Saw
8.1307BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Nov 07 1991 12:1615
When I watch international matches, I notice that even the little tiny backs
had huge legs like a prop.  They are huge but can move.  Kind of like me,
right Mac?

Well, much of our A-side will be at the ERU select side camp this weekend,
but we might have a game for those of us who are left up at Dartmouth.  I
don't really want to go up there, but agreed to play for the sake of anybody
else who wants to.  Our recycling is really stacking up and Saturday is the
day to go to the dump...

Saw, it's almost time for the rugby dinner.  Our season ends in four weeks,
and my final for class is on the 18th of December.  I think we should invite
ourselves over to Keith's, since it's roughly in between.

Rachael
8.1308CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Thu Nov 07 1991 12:329
>Saw, it's almost time for the rugby dinner.  Our season ends in four weeks,
>and my final for class is on the 18th of December.  I think we should invite
>ourselves over to Keith's, since it's roughly in between.

The firsted annual Digital SPORTS Noter-Ruggers Rugby Banquet.   I'll bring
the Scotch....8^)


Sounds like a great idea, heh, heh, heh....
8.1309I'm *still* not ready for this season to endIAMOK::WASKOMThu Nov 07 1991 14:2510
    Ooohhh - I love it!
    
    Gots ta decide on a date an' venue.  Include those who enjoy the game,
    have been to a couple (like Ninj & Hawk & yours truly) or just wanna do
    great party.  (I mean, after all, since Worcester cancelled the
    Hartford/Worcester match in the interests of doing well in the ERU
    finals, and thereby cancelled the Sports Noters Rugby Get-Together, we
    can use this as a substitutue -- *right*?!?
    
    A&W
8.1310CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Nov 07 1991 14:498
8.1311I'm not the social director & don't play one on tee veeCSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Thu Nov 07 1991 15:009
    I don't wanna wait that long.  How about everybody meeting at
    El Torito's in Framingham on Tuesday (11/12) after work?
    We could have a min-drink up, 'saw and Mac could have a_arm wrestling
    contest instead of the "Battle of The Prop Butts" and then
    we could go across the street to the Tara & watch the fireworks coming
    from the DCU meeting?????
    
    Kev
    
8.1312CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Thu Nov 07 1991 15:5930
Normally I'd say yes Kev, but I wanna be in the proper frame of mind
on Tuesday.

I couldn't enjoy the drinkup knowing that I had to go be a good listener
and participate in an important vote.   I wouldn't "enjoy" the meeting
knowing that I'd cut short a bitchin' drinkup.

Mac would kill me in a_arm wrasslin' contest.  You ever see that guy's guns????
(Although I gotta tell ya, mine were so pumped lasted night I thought they
was gonna bust through my skin like David Banner and his shirts!)


Pick a time AFTER the season, when Rachael has some time. Plan a place
midway and we'll take it from there.


Finally,

	Mac, we *all* know you guys just didn't have the 'nads to face
	us.  And we all know that you all were quakin' in your boots
	over the thought of facing the large, 3rd side hooker....

BUT 
	I for one am damn glad you cancelled out.  We can have our little
	party tonight, my body is healing, and I can set my sights on 
	my February goals and enjoying the upcoming holidays....


'Saw

8.1313BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Nov 07 1991 17:0614
 My brother decided to get married next Spring.  He picked one weekend
before Nationals.  I don't know what I would have done if he had picked
the weekend of Nationals.  I would seriously consider not going.  My mother
is having an engagement party in Feb or March, and had told me that I will
attend.  I told her I will probably attend.  I probably will, but I might
have been disowned if my brother had picked a date one week later for the main
event.

I'm probably going to the DCU meeting, too.  I'll have to skip practice,
right before we go to Atlanta, which won't be trivial, but I think it's 
probably the right thing to do.  Were you guys serious about going, or
just kidding?

Rachael
8.1314CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Thu Nov 07 1991 17:1316
>probably the right thing to do.  Were you guys serious about going, or
>just kidding?


I'm definitely going.

I don't make all that much money (had to forego a second HWRFC jersey
to swing tht All-Blacks one from Madge) and I don't like folks 
messin' around with it.  

I want to go to this meeting to hear for myself and decide what the
deal is up there.....


'Saw

8.1315CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Nov 07 1991 17:363
    Sorry, 11/12 is out for me.  I'll be attending a conference in RTP, NC
    and even if I wasn't our season is still going on and that is a
    training night.
8.1316A plan within a plan......CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Thu Nov 07 1991 17:4523
    Fer sure I'm going too.  As I understand it, some folks are
    meeting at MRO1 near the helipad @5:00PM and then off to El
    Torito's for a bit o' dinner and then off to the Tara.
    
    Other than 'saw, Denny and me, who else is planning to go?  Mac,
    you going?
    
    Kev
    
    ps - 'saw about that comment that Mac would whup ya.  Listen, the
    way I got it planned, Tuesday afternoon everybody mis-place replies
    into all the different topics.  Ya know like dog sledding in Rugby,
    Snuffy stuff in bowling, T&F in the NCAA Basketball, and the like.
    First, MacTheMod will be kept busy allll afternoon making things
    right (probably sportin a woodie at the same time) and I figure his
    arms will be all tuckered-out and rubbery. Fatigue, lactic acid
    build-up, weak, drooping and all that tired stuff will be his (just)
    reward and THEN you challenge him to the contest.
    
    Cain't lose that way!
    
    Kev
    
8.1317notes collision!!!!1 :*(CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Thu Nov 07 1991 17:471
    
8.1319CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Thu Nov 07 1991 17:551
Hawk, they probably were scared you'd beat them wif a_aluminum bat otherwise...
8.1320Lets PartyEDUOZ::THURGARFri Nov 08 1991 00:2112
    Re: .1310
    
    Dumb attack - the date of the wedding or getting married ??
    
    On your get together. Count me in (in spirit anyway). What we did to
    celebrate last night was to have a drink for every point Aust scored in
    the WC. Seemed sensible at the time. I think we are now at about half
    time in the Welsh game. 
    
    Why was my classroom spinning this morning ?
    
    Madge
8.1321CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Fri Nov 08 1991 09:349
>    Why was my classroom spinning this morning ?
    
Too much there Madge!

What were you drinking?  



'Saw
8.1322CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Fri Nov 08 1991 09:4340
Well, the Wanderers had their end of season party last night at
our bar (called Johnnies now).

It's GREAT. They put in a pool table, and it really spices up the bar.


We had a little "awards" ceremony.  However, it wasn't like a regular
one or anything, it was more a "rugby" one.  The recipients got to get
up in front of the group and drink a double shot of either Cuervo
or Jagermeister, whichever you didn't like.


Bull got an award for ALWAYS doing to the pitch.

Doc got the "Ponce de Leon" Fountain of Youth award.


And I was the recipient of the Roger Mills Rugby Citizenship award.
Roger, aka "The Dude", was a prop who used to play with us before
I started.  He was a powerlifter who had a prediliction for Burger 
King.   Since I tend to call everyone dude, and I like BK too, well....

Double shot of Cuervo -- OUCH!   The funniest part was as I was 
walking back to my chair, half the bar shouted out "Way!", and then
the other half shouted out "NO Way!".....


The best award was to Count, for his speech last Tuesday after the
Mystic River game.  The award was for

		Speech Most Likely to make the ENTIRE club
		jump off the Charter Oak Bridge



Great night all around....  even broke down and had a cigarette, which
made one guy remark "No wonder why we have to time you with a calendar!"


'Saw
8.1323IAMOK::WASKOMFri Nov 08 1991 14:3410
    'Saw -
    
    Wish I coulda been there.
    
    Where in the world did they find *space* to put a pool table?
    
    A&W
    
    
    PS - OK if I bring a not-so-mystery guest to this bash we're plannin'?
8.1324Gotsta admit it...SHALOT::MEDVIDLake Geneva to the Freeland StationMon Nov 11 1991 09:588
    Spent last week on business in Geneva, Switzerland.  I must admit that
    I watched the last part of the championship Rugby match on the telly. 
    Didn't quite know what the hell was going on, but it was enjoyable.
    
    However, I don't think I'll be doing much writing in this topic just
    because of this one experience.
    
    	--dan'l
8.1325CAM::WAYIf it's no' Scottish it's CRAP!Mon Nov 11 1991 10:099
Well, dan'l, I'm jealous.  

You know how it is in the States...if it ain't football, hoops, or
baseball, they don't show it....

Did you have an English broadcast?


'Saw
8.1326SHALOT::MEDVIDFrom Lake Geneva...Mon Nov 11 1991 10:227
    'Twere a French broadcast, mon sewer (or is that mon sawer).
    
    But I watched it anyway, just like I watched the German and French
    flesh flicks that came on regular TV every night about 10 PM.  Like the
    Rugby game, I didn't understand a word but I enjoyed all the action.
    
    	--dan'l
8.1327BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 11 1991 10:2635
Hawk, to be sure, one of the things we'll be bringing up  at the meeting
will be bad loans...

Still not sure if I'm going.  Like Mac, I've got practice, which is the #1
commitment.  But, you've got to do your civic duty too, else you've no right
to complain.

We took a B-side up to Dartmouth this weekend, having about 12 players at
the ERU camp and a few injured.  I was a little worried about how the game
would go, as they are one of the best college teams in New England.  However,
when we scored on kickoff we realized that we were probably pretty safe.  We
took it easy but not too easy on them for two halves, then took it even
easier on their B-side for a third half.  Their coach thanked our 
captain-de-jour afterwards for not slaughtering them.
	
It was interesting because they were big, but not very effective.  Couple
of times I received the ball on a kick, and would be running one on one
with some huge Dartmouth player.  I thought I would get creamed, but all 
they tended to do was run into me.  So, when I turned into them with my 
shoulder and hit them a little, all we did was go "wumph", and I had all day
to wait for my support and to place the ball down.  It was so bizarre to have
that much time in that kind of play.

It was an OK game but not the best ever.  When I let up in how intense I play,
I tend to make mistakes that I wouldn't have otherwise.  The first two
halves I was a flanker and was OK, but the third half I was #8 and played
abysmal.  Also had a scrumhalf who was really a fullback, and we didn't work
together too well.

Went to MIT hockey practice Friday, to shoot on my buddy Allie, who's the
goalie.  Sometimes in practice she ends up standing there a lot and I miss
skating, so...  It sure was fun but, boy, so my skates need sharpening.  They
feel like they've got rounded edges.

Rachael
8.1328Rugby made easyEDUOZ::THURGARWed Nov 13 1991 01:4293
    From the Sydney Morning Herald, before the World Cup, an article by
    Peter Fitzsimmons (ex-Wallaby). Explaining Rugby to Rip Van Winkle:
    
    "It's not that hard once you get the hang of it"
    
    If you had to explain to an awoken Rip Van Winkle about major modern
    sports, how long would it take?
    Soccer. About 30 seconds: one ball two teams, two goals, put ball
    through goal, fall about on ground all over each other. the only
    complexities that he would have to grasp are the offside rule and the
    fact that when any player gets even the mildest tap on the ankle he has
    to writhe about on the ground for a good minute or so until the penalty
    is milked.
    Golf. Another 30 seconds: one ball, several clubs, 18 holes, much
    cursing, long walks.
    Ten Pin Bowling. Three seconds. The name of the game says it all.
    Darts. Ditto.
    Tennis. 5-10 minutes.
    Rugby Union. Listen Rip, sit down here and make yourself comfortable,
    this is going to take a while. And dont start to nod off.
    For the uninitiated, rugby is not an easy game to comprehend and its
    very complexity is enough to ensure that it will never get the 60-70
    per cent following that soccer is able to garner in many countries.
    Despite reports, it's not just any moron who is able to play or watch
    Rugby. It takes a special type.
    To  the novice, a game of Rugby looks like an impossible tangle of arms
    and legs that occasionally dissembles, forms up into humans, charges
    across field to then become another impossible tangle.
    It is only by knowing about the rulesof the game, that it all starts to
    make sense, but therein lies another problem.
    Unlike most other sports, what the rules say should happen in Rugby,
    and what actually happens, are only second cousins once removed.
    Take for example the lineout.
    This, like many parts of the Rugby game, is generally a cross between a
    bowl of spaghetti and the fall of Saigon, and according to the strict
    letter of the sporting law, all lineouts are illegal.
    Well and verily might it say in the official and most blessed Rugby
    rule book that "...and God said unto Moses, from this point forth there
    will be a metre of space between the shgoulders of teammates in the
    Rugby lineout and a half-metre corridor between them and their
    opponents and Yea, so too will there be no movement across this
    corridor until the ball has landed on the furthest fingertips of one of
    the players".
    There hasn't been a lineout like this ever and certainly not in the
    World Cup.
    Someone with one eye on the TV and one eye on the rule book would no
    doubt still have no idea of what is going on.
    In fact, the real name of the game is for both teams to charge across
    the narrow corridor separating them as soon as the ball has left the
    hands of the thrower.
    They do this with much the same alacrity with which the Germans charged
    across the Rhineland all those years ago, and for much the same
    reasons.
    It is done both to bustle the opposition and to enlarge your territory
    so as to maximise the chances, that when the ball spills downwards, it
    will fall to you and not the opposition.
    Savvy Rippa ?
    It's like this all through the Rugby game.
    It may actually say in the rule book that "...and Yea, when a penalty
    is awarded, all infidels and heathens and opposing teams will move back
    across the River of Jordan, a distance of precisely 10 metres".
    In fact the convention is that this does not mean "that distance
    between 9 and 11 metres". It means "back a bit". (Usually about 5
    metres).
    When it says in the rule book that "a player will release the ball as
    soon as his body is on the deck", it means "only if he stands a good
    chance of being seen by the referee"
    Do you get it Rip ?
    It's a game that is such a natural expression of the basic urge that
    some people feel to run into each other, that the rules don't actually
    fit precisely over the game itself, and never have been able to.
    You need a referee who understands taht and will let the booger go.
    And the really curious thing about it is that, more than any other
    game, Test teams tend to play in a fashion evocative of their national
    spirit.
    In the World Cup we have seen the flair and derring-do of the French,
    the dour grittiness of the New Zealanders, the technically excellent
    precision of the Japanese,the overwhelming exuberance of the Western
    Samoans and the solid, stolid, stuffy and downright boring play of the
    English.
    And how have our guys played ?
    In the spirit of the nation from which they've sprung.
    If you could take one of our most famous sporting phrases: "Have a go
    yer mug", and turnit into a style of playing football, then that has
    been the Wallaby way.
    What's that Rip?. You think you've got the drift and you'd like to go
    and have a good lie down ?
    OK, but make sure you set the alarm for 1am tomorrow.
    
    Hope you enjoyed it.
    
    Madge
    
8.1329BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Nov 13 1991 11:1019
Saw, were you there?  We have to stop bothering to even attempt to meet in
large crowds.  I saw lots of guys in flannel shirts, but none of them seemed
like they'd be you.  Did you even go, or did you get stuck at El Torrito's?


I was there till a little before 10, standing against the wall to the 
speaker's left.

As luck would have it, we cancelled practice last night so I didn't miss
that.  I had a feeling about that, I wasn't too surprised.  I wonder if
we're going to have a playoff this weekend or not.

Rachael

PS  Madge, that's really funny.  Thanks for typing it all in.

PPS  Oh yeah, Cyndy made the ERU travelling side as a second row.  She'll
be going to Tallahasee (sp?) for ITT's at the end of January.  Florida in
January sounds good to me, I think I'll be a dutiful wife and attend.
8.1330IAMOK::WASKOMWed Nov 13 1991 12:526
    Madge -
    
    Many thanks.  OK if I pass it on?  (to some who have the misfortune to
    play without access to the net)
    
    A&W
8.1331BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Nov 13 1991 17:221
Hey, what happened?
8.1332Your on a missionEDUOZ::THURGARWed Nov 13 1991 20:159
    A&W,
    
    Pass it on to all and sundry. Spread the word of the only true code.
    That is now your mission in life. To convert every American into a
    rugby loving person.
    
    Oh yeah, by the way - Good Luck.
    
    Madge
8.1333More storiesEDUOZ::THURGARThu Nov 14 1991 00:4987
    OF GLORY AND VAINGLORY by Simon Carr - The Independent in London
    
    - pre final in the WC.
    
    "Pursuant to the second semi-final of the Rugby World Cup, and given
    the resultant circumstances of the Australian representatives playing
    England in the final of the said competition, the Board of teh Rugby
    Football Union announces the following rule chnages to be made in the
    laws of the game
    
    		- SCORING
    
    In response to public demand, the practice of running with the ball has
    increased in the last 10 years. This reaction to market forces is a
    form of professionalism and is contrary to the spirit of Rugby. Rather
    than expel or suspend persistent offenders under existing laws
    governing amateur status, the scoring system for Cup Finals shall be
    amended:
    a) Tries scored by fancy wingers with Italian names shall be worth: 1
    point
    b) Tries scored by hard-working forwards inching an invisible ball
    onwards under a maul of men through a period of a quarter of an hour
    shall be worth: 6 points
    c) Grovelling in scrums and releasing the ball reluctantly and
    immediatelykicking for touch shall be worth : 2 points
    
    		- PENALTIES
    
    The laws concerning foul play shall be extended to cover incidents as
    dishonest in intent or against the spirit of the game. Free kicks by
    way of penalties shall be awarded if any player:
    a) Runs forward with the ball as if to engage the opposition
    three-quarter line, but at the last moment chips the ball over their
    heads and bursts through the legitimately constructed defensive line to
    score under the posts. The kick shall be awarded on the grounds of
    wilful deception.
    b) Comes in from the wing to take the ball and runs diagonally across
    the pitch to score. The kick shall be awarded on grounds of careless
    individualism.
    c) Take a kick ahead on the first bounce, wrong foots a full back,
    takes three oppsoition players out and throws the ball over his
    shoulder without looking to see if he is supported but knowing that he
    is, because he is Australian of Italian descent. The kick shall be
    awarded for vainglory.
    d) Chases a ball the length of th epitch to frighten the opposition
    fullback on his tryline, and 15 seconds later makes a try saving tackle
    on his own line in the opposite corner. The kick shall be awarded for
    trying too hard.
    
    Note: the attention of the referees is specially drawn to the necessity
    of rigidly and immediately enforcing the new law, with particular
    attention to the case of fancy wingers with Italian names who run
    faster than a racing ostrich with a bee in its bum.
    
    		- ELIGIBILITY TO PLAY
    
    National representatives shall be expected to belong morally as well as
    legally to their represented country. Players with double barrelled
    names shall be recognised as clearly being English. Names ending in
    -agh shall be deemed Irish and shall not be allowed to play except for
    Ireland. Names ending in -ese shall be deeemed Italian. All
    nationalities shall be required to play for their morally national
    teams, or for England.
    
    		- COMPENSATORY TRIES
    
    (a) After 15 minutes of almost motionless scrummaging under the posts,
    a try in compensation shall be awarded to the attacking team.
    (b) If the host team attempts three times to penetrate the defence,
    starting from play originating inside the 22, the third attack shall be
    deemed successful and awarded a try.
    (c) If the visitors score a try in the corner with three men over there
    shall be a try awarded against them on grounds of excess in times of
    recession.
    
    		- RATIFYING WINNERS
    
    The result of the final shall be provisional until both highest
    circulating British tabloids have carried front page admissions that
    Australia is culturally, economically and sexually superior to England,
    and that Australia should be compensated with large cash sums for
    Gallipoli, nuclear testing on Australian soil, and Britain's entry into
    the EC."
    
    
    Madge
     
8.1334Rach, obviously MacThe Mod's BACK!!!!!! :*(CSTEAM::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Thu Nov 14 1991 00:551
    
8.1335CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Thu Nov 14 1991 10:0418
Madge --


Wingers of Italian descent?  Wingers with names ending is "ese"?

Pitching it blind over the shoulder?



I am SEVERELY ROLLWARD, mate!  hahahahahaha... too funny.


(I liked the part about the 6point tries for forwards though 8^))


'Saw
    

8.1336BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Nov 14 1991 14:205
The highest compliement of all, "SEVERELY ROLLWARD".  I'd have to agree,
that was great.


Rachael
8.1337IAMOK::WASKOMThu Nov 14 1991 14:254
    Well, they're both about to be shared at the Providence RFC Board
    Meeting tonight.  Thanks Madge, they're great.
    
    A&W
8.1338CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Thu Nov 14 1991 14:4711
>    Providence RFC 


Still a bunch o' nancies that haven't figured out a way to beat us
yet 8^)


and another 8^) for good measure.....


'Saw
8.1339:-) :-) :-)IAMOK::WASKOMThu Nov 14 1991 17:283
    Why do you think they're still having meetings ??
    
    A&W
8.1340CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Thu Nov 14 1991 18:1425
>    Why do you think they're still having meetings ??
>    
>    A&W


I can hear it now:


	Okay, we tried making the field wider and the post narrower,
	and it didn't work, Glen still kicked good against us.

	Say, why don't we water down the field so he can't get a 
	good plant to kick.

	No, let's put fire ants in his jock.

	Nah, let's get him drunk the night before.

	No way, he's english.


	and what are we gonna do about their third side hooker?


8^)
8.1341CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Nov 14 1991 18:435
8.1342IAMOK::WASKOMThu Nov 14 1991 21:245
    'Saw -
    
    Have the third side tighthead clobber him  :-).  
    
    A&W
8.1343BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Nov 15 1991 10:4045
8.1344North Eastern Regionals TomorrowCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Nov 15 1991 13:236
    I'm heading for the Big Apple tonight in preparation for the
    North-Eastern Regional Playoffs.  Worcester will be playing Monmouth
    tomorrow at 1 pm at Wards Island Rugby Center, Wards Island, NY, NY. 
    I've been named to the travelling squad and am one of 3 being decided
    on for the other lock spot.  Hopefully I won't be making the trip just
    to stand around.
8.1345IAMOK::WASKOMFri Nov 15 1991 14:173
    Good luck to WRFC.  Hope you get to play, Mac, and not due to injury.
    
    A&W
8.1346CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Sat Nov 16 1991 10:5953
8.1347MAY04::BERMANgive blood play rugbySat Nov 16 1991 20:5126
    'Saw,
    	No flame on, I'm not upset but here's a response to hopefully
    generate understanding:
    	Not in a long time have I thought anything about you other than
    you're very open minded and I'd really like to meet you.  I still
    do.  I guess communication via notes is a little limited and I
    think we've run into that.
    	Calling a man a woman is considered an insult to the guy.
    That in itself I find very insulting to women, and I think someone
    who does it in front of me is insulting me.  All I wanted, which 
    probably wasn't clear, was for you to think about it.  Would you 
    have said "so and so works like a black"?  If not, idea being that
    the latter is pretty rude, why would you say "so and so plays
    like a bunch of nancies (implication being women=weaklings)".
    	I understand what you meant about it being a team thing. One
    of my old teams used to have a team thing about "testosterone
    poisoning" to explain why anybody  would act like an asshole.
    But I sure wouldn't drop a line like that in front of you, I think
    it's pretty rude.  Some thing when among friends you understand
    they're a joke and you're not cutting down a race/gender as a whole,
    but might be best left unsaid in public.
    	And finally, I realize it's a common figure of speech.  But I
    don't believe that's an excuse to keep it, "nigger" used to be 
    common, too.
    
    Rachael 
8.1348PSMAY04::BERMANgive blood play rugbySat Nov 16 1991 20:555
    PS I'm under the impression that a Nancy refers to a woman.  If not,
    I take it all back and would only say, Saw, be careful, that could
    easily be interpreted to be a cut on women.
    
    Rachael
8.1349I've suffered from testosterone poisoning before 8^)CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Sun Nov 17 1991 13:2319
It probably does refer to a woman, and I'm not Irish so I couldn't tell
ya the background behind it, but every usage I've ever heard it in
translates more closely to "wimp".

To me, there are men wimps and women wimps, and even dog wimps.   So
wimps is a non-sexual term as far as I'm concerned.  And nancy equates
with wimp, at least in HWRFC usage...


btw, I probably would have peed my pants over the "testosterone poisoning"
thang.  I think that's pretty funny.   (Then again, I'm one of those
folks who doesn't take himself too seriously and can heartily laugh at
what I see in the mirror every morning....)


So, now that we've gotten that outta the way, I'm dying to know if
Mac and the burly brutes in black beat those wimps from Monmouth!!!

'Saw
8.1350EDUOZ::THURGARSun Nov 17 1991 18:149
    re 8.1343
    
    Rachael,
    
    I would love to come and watch the Wallabies train, but I thought they
    where going to be at a parade in Sydney on Wednesday. Tight schedule
    those guys have.
    
    Madge
8.1351BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 18 1991 11:0126
Well, Madge, you're not the only one who missed our practice Saturday.  I
was just over an hour late myself.  What a rotten Saturday in general...
I suppose it just makes the good ones look better.  I did have fun in the
half hour that I was there.  Figured out some interesting stuff at #7 in
the lineout, I've been playing #6 this last bunch of years.

'Saw, I see what you're getting at a lot more than I did before.  Sometimes
the same words can mean different things depending on where they're coming
from...

Mac, what happened with your match?

I found out we only have two games in Atlanta.  I, like the sap I am, offered
to split a game with Whatleigh if I would be playing and she wouldn't.  It'd
be hard to only play a half, but I wouldn't want her to go all that way for
no games.  Of course, I don't have any guarenteed games either, this was
marked as "one side" on the schedule, but we'll see.  I'm more likely to get
at least one game.  We have 25 people planning on going, probably only 7 of
which are flankers.

Baton Rogue could be even worse.  Depending on how many teams show up, we 
could just have one game.  I guess last Fall only three teams came.  If 
that happens again we'll get a bye for the first game and just play in the
finals.

Rachael
8.1352CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 18 1991 11:0524
>Well, Madge, you're not the only one who missed our practice Saturday.  I
>was just over an hour late myself.  What a rotten Saturday in general...
>I suppose it just makes the good ones look better.  I did have fun in the
>half hour that I was there.  Figured out some interesting stuff at #7 in
>the lineout, I've been playing #6 this last bunch of years.


This season, I played #3 exclusively.  Love it....


>'Saw, I see what you're getting at a lot more than I did before.  Sometimes
>the same words can mean different things depending on where they're coming
>from...

Ain't English a wonderful language?  8^)


>Mac, what happened with your match?

Yeah, Mac, don't be holdin' out on us!



The Sawman
8.1353CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 18 1991 12:576
C'mon Mac, yer holdin' out on us.

If'n you cain't put in a report, at least put in a score!


You gots people here turnin' blue!
8.1354BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 18 1991 13:339
Maybe this is a sign that they made it, Mac is still home in bed recovering
from the celebration.

Here's hoping.

I'm so glad I don't have to go to a state with David Duke for governer
for Territorials.  I was worried.

Rachael
8.1355Worcester vs Monmouth Match reportCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 18 1991 14:1166
8.1356CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 18 1991 14:5315
Tough luck there Mac....  

I could try to buck up your spirits by saying something witty, or consoling
or whatever, but you and I both KNOW that words can't touch that feeling
that's been living down inside you since Saturday.


Best of luck next season.  I hope they treat you a little more fairly.
If not, the offer in Hartford is always open!  It ain't that far
from you, really! 8^)

Take a week or two off, then hit the gym, son....


'Saw
8.1357IAMOK::WASKOMMon Nov 18 1991 15:2712
    Mac -
    
    Thanks for the report.  I'll pass on the Army results to the interested
    party in that one, too.  Here's hoping Mystics beat Old Blue.
    
    Also, Providence is actively recruiting for additional players if you
    want to consider trying them out.  (I sat through a *long* discussion
    of ways to attract different/more players last week.)  Gots ta say that
    Hartford is the better team from a lot of perspectives, but Providence
    may be closer.
    
    A&W
8.13588^)CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 18 1991 15:469

	Providence :== Nancy rugby

	Hartford   :== Superb, excellent, hard-hitting, high scoring,
		       extremely workmanlike, deeply satisfying rugby.


Mac, you make the call......
8.1359CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 18 1991 16:1020
    I have alot of thinking to do in the offseason.  When I relocated back
    here I was considering a position in FXO which had me seriously
    considering Providence.  A couple of our players have played for
    Hartford at one time.  Charles River is also a possibility.  They are
    closer since they practice in the Maynard area and I work in Hudson.  I
    realize They are not as good as Providence or Hartford.
    
    At this stage of my life I'm really wondering if it would be worth
    checking out another rugby club, especially one that will increase my
    travel time and thus the amount of time spent on rugby.  I have alot of
    friends on the WRFC.  At the risk of damaging my reputation as a modest
    person, I've put alot into the WRFC that has gotten them where they are
    today, both on and off the field.  I still have some unfinished
    business in that regard as well, especially in trying to get Worcester
    the USARE championship and a chance to move to Div. I while maintaining
    our social and administrative excellence and perhaps host a national
    event.  Then there is the other part of me who has tasted what it's
    like playing in Division I and was starting to get a shot at playing
    representative rugby.  And of course there is the nagging doubt that
    maybe I am really not as good as I think I am.
8.1360Ya gots me MAD, MacCAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 18 1991 17:1031
>    representative rugby.  And of course there is the nagging doubt that
>    maybe I am really not as good as I think I am.


HEY!  Do I have to come up there and smack some sense into you???

You don't play A side in Division I against teams like Dallas if you're
NOT any good.  

I've not played against you personally, but my teammates have, and you've
always gotten good reviews from them.  I know what it's like to play
against a Division II A side, and it left my wounded, tired, dejected,
with a healthy dose of pride flushed down the sh_tter.  If can't imagine
playing Division I A side.


Just because the Bozos that are selecting have their own agenda, and their
own politics, doesn't mean that you're not as good as you think you are.

Bullshit.


I can understand what you're trying to do with the club.  That makes a lot
of sense to me, and that would be one reason for staying.  I'm offering
Hartford out of selfishness for the team, because as a prop, the last thing
*I* need is another prop on the team, but we could sure use you.

If you want someone to talk to, you know how to get in touch with me ;^)


'Saw
8.1361FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Nov 18 1991 17:434
    Frank, you don't have to worry if Keith comes down to Hartford to prop. 
    You're doing quite well at hooker.
    
    :-)
8.1362And the makings of an ugly team photoCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 18 1991 17:461
    Me and 'Saw together in the front row.  Now that's a scary thought ;^)
8.1363CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 18 1991 18:0122
    I'll have to get and stay motivated to keep fit (and hopefully improve
    my fitness) during the offseason.  There are parts of me that aren't
    disapointed that the season is over - my shoulders and my left ankle
    ;^).  So after a little rest it'll be time to get on the excercise bike
    and either see if I can weasel onto some of my teammates weights or
    breakdown and spring for a membership at the Y.
    
    I don't know what I'm going to do with myself on Tuesdays, Thursdays,
    and Saturdays over the next couple of months, but judging from the
    little whoop of joy my wife let out last night, I'm sure she has plenty
    of ideas.
    
    WRFC elections have been moved to January because of the possibilty of
    us making the playoffs (won't happen now, but we had to plan with that
    possibility).  A couple of people have talked to me about running for
    Prez again.  I apparently did such a good job with the newsletter, that
    I wonder if the club will let me do anything else - I was held out of
    other offices a few years ago because I did too good of a job at match
    secretary.  I've even thought about making a political statement and
    run for the B-side captaincy ("Well, since it was obvious in the fall
    that I'm not considered A side material, I'll devote myself to keeping
    the B-side as competitive as possible").
8.1364BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 18 1991 18:0229
A-side versus B-side is a big trip.  You have to have a lot of confidence
to continue to believe in yourself if you make a bid and don't make it.
Trust me, I know.  :^)

Mac, we probably all have that nagging doubt.  But the reality is that you're
never really going to know how good you are.  Rugby is very subjective in
terms of how you're measured.  So you might as well blow off what the selectors
are telling you and just feel it from within.  The selectors views are input
to that internal feeling, as are the opinions of others and yourself.

So much of this game is what you make it.  A small person makes themselves
big, a team may get their butts kicked but win the day.

Last Fall, I took the season off from Beantown and played for my college
again.  I couldn't stand the politics anymore, I just felt so screwed over.
When I came back it was with the realization that I might not always like
selections, but I love the game and I love playing on Beantown (despite
occaisional disagreements) and that's what I'm there for etc etc etc.
And I've had a blast.  I played in the semi's at Nationals, the finals
at Saranac, the C game in the beginning of the season, and I've had so
much fun in almost all of the games.  Everybody on the team is one of my
teammates, and I enjoy being on the field with almost all of them.  (Worst
is playing flanker with my girlfriend as the other one, Lord, let me never
do that again...with her at second row it's fine...)

That's all a long winded way of saying f*ck self doubts, rugby is so much
fun and you know you're a hero.

Rachael
8.1365My thought for Mac to ponder ;^)CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Mon Nov 18 1991 18:4011
    
    
    	Providence :== Better drink-up's, close to a brewery
    
    	Haffahd :== Connecticut River Water?????  Gimme a break - Yecch!
    
    
    hth,
    
    Kev
    
8.1366follow the logic........CST17::FARLEYHave YOU seen Elvis Today?Mon Nov 18 1991 18:4317
    Input
    
    
    	Re: Naggin doubts about not being as good as thinks
    
    	re:	Great job writing the newsletter, etc.
    
    Conclusion
    
    	Those who can do, those who can't, write about it!
    
    
    many -> ;*)
    
    Kev
    
    
8.1367IAMOK::WASKOMMon Nov 18 1991 19:1621
    Well, actually, apparently the Providence clubhouse is the largest
    illegal bar in RI  :-)
    
    But then, the Wanderers own their own legal bar.
    
    Providence does have hot showers in the clubhouse, if that's a factor. 
    Hartford is still working on that little detail.  And I can walk back
    to my car at night alone in Providence.
    
    :-)
    
    
    Charles River does great drink-ups.  :-)
    
    
    And in all seriousness, I've watched you play.  You ought to have
    gotten A-side selections with Worcester.  You may start out with
    B-sides in Division I, but I don't think you'd stay there.  Only you
    know how important the loyalty/admin issues are.
    
    A&W
8.1368CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 18 1991 19:244
8.1369CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 18 1991 22:4627
Rachael, 

That was a GREAT note kiddo.  Says it perfectly.


As to me playing hooker, to tell the truth, I really don't like scrumming
at hooker.  I may be a nancy 8^), but going into the scrum with both arms
out like Christ on the Cross definitely takes one's breath away.

Or maybe I'm just a little gun-shy since the Springfield game.

Hopefully, by the time spring season rolls around I'll be pumped up enough
that they'll select me at prop 8^)

But as Rachael said, the game is what you make of it, and I have enjoyed
the game at every position I've played.  Who knows, I might be the
Steve Lyons of the Tight Five 8^)


Just back from the gym, and do I feel PUMPED.  Mac, definitely go for the
Y.  I mean, I've made some buddies, and when I go in now, it's almost
like logging into SPORTS in the morning....just not as crazy.

Claywad calls it the Brotherhood of Sweat, and believe me, he is right!


'Saw
8.1370BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Nov 19 1991 10:0316
Charles River Drinkups ==> Bruce and Danny  "You've got your green alligators,
your long necked geese, your humpty backed camels and your chimpanzees.
Cata and rats and elephants and sure as you're born, you just can't find
that unicorn!"
	When I played for Boston Women's we were coached by guys from
Charles River.
	Only two and a half weeks then I join you guys in Doritos, I mean
in the gym!
	Cyndy's shoulders are still hurt, she seperated one of them in Hartford
just a little bit.  If she doesn't play in Atlanta, then one of our flankers 
will probably be at second row and I stand a decent shot at flanker in the
finals.  Not a guarentee, but a chance.  So, last night, I was shaking her by
the shoulders.  :^)  A mercenary rugby household we have.


Rachael
8.1371CAM::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Nov 19 1991 10:3732
>Charles River Drinkups ==> Bruce and Danny  "You've got your green alligators,
>your long necked geese, your humpty backed camels and your chimpanzees.
>Cata and rats and elephants and sure as you're born, you just can't find
>that unicorn!"

Oh, I dunno, I kind of liked "Singin' In the Rain" by White Plains 8^)

>	Only two and a half weeks then I join you guys in Doritos, I mean
>in the gym!

Feel the burn!  Try doing squats to the Red Hot Chili Peppers "Give it Away".
Whomp on yerself.

(Just tryin' to psyche you up)


>	Cyndy's shoulders are still hurt, she seperated one of them in Hartford
>just a little bit.  If she doesn't play in Atlanta, then one of our flankers 
>will probably be at second row and I stand a decent shot at flanker in the
>finals.  Not a guarentee, but a chance.  So, last night, I was shaking her by
>the shoulders.  :^)  A mercenary rugby household we have.


Run into the room, tackle her about the waist, lifting her as you
do so.  Dash her to the floor like the guy from Green Bay did to
Jim McMahon when he was playing for Chicago, making sure that the
separated shoulder hits first.   No doubt after that you'll be playing
in Louisiana.... 


Glad to be of assistance....
'Saw
8.1373BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Nov 19 1991 12:465
Hawk,
	You're just fretting because there's been no mention of electical
tape in ages.

Rachael
8.1374BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Nov 20 1991 13:4711
Atlanta:

	2 games, 25 people, 5 flankers.  I'd guess I rank above 1 flanker
that's going, below 2, and probably below the third although I still can't
figure why.  I offered to split a game with Whatleigh, (I'd probably play
over her) and it would be awful to get just half a game, but I'd rather
she got to play.  Still don't know if I'll even be playing, but if not
I play to have a great time anyways.  Anyone know what the weather would
be like in Atlanta this weekend?

Rachael
8.1375CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 25 1991 12:0817
Watched the US vs New Zealand last evening.

What a pathetic showing by the Americans.  I cannot believe how many times
the All Blacks got on overload on the strong side by sucking a back
in....

The Americans scrummaging, at least in the highlights sucked also....


Oh well.  Hopefully next time around USARFU will have their thinking caps
on when they make selections.

Kevin Swords is God(tm)...  IMO he would fit in admirably on any of
the top 7 international sides....


'Saw
8.1376I still haven't found out who won, thoughCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 25 1991 12:4444
    Some late thoughts on the USARE Northeast Regionals held in NYC a few
    weeks ago:
    
    The fields were on Ward Island in NYC.  This is a tiny island just
    South of Manhatten.  The only other thing on the island is a waste
    water treatement plant and the supports for the Triboro Bridge.  I'm
    amazed that the Met-NY Union was awarded the bid (unless there wasn't a
    bid which wouldn't surprise me).  The fields were nowhere near
    regulation size.  There was debris (some of it dangerous) all over.
    
    The event was run very well, though.  They brought in portable
    bleachers for the specatators, had portable toilets, and had a nice
    concession stand set up.  All of the matches went off on time.  Team
    check-ins were handled in an orderly fashion and the pre-registration
    packets were sent out in a fairly timely manner.  They were very strict
    in enforcing the USARFU eligibility requirements.  All participants
    were required to show either a passport or a birth certificate to prove
    citizenship.  Foreign born players were required to show green cards if
    they had them.  Anyone that didn't have this was classified as a
    non-citizen.  Teams were allowed to have 4 non-citizens on the roster
    and only 2 could be on the pitch at the same time.  Social security
    cards and drivers licenses were not acceptable.  All of the players on
    our roster at the current time are either US born or have green cards
    or citizenship, yet because a few guys forgot to bring proper ID, we
    had 3 or 4 "non-citizens" on our roster.
    
    The referees for the event were the best available from the 3 Unions
    participating.  I thought it interesting that the colleges and Div. II
    clubs had to provide their own touch judges for the matches on
    Saturday, yet the Div. I clubs were given touch judges (idle referees).
    
    I guess NYC charged the Met-NY Union a good chunk of change for the
    fields.  As a result, they charged a $5 admission to the games.  The
    ticket was good for the whole weekend.  Each team playing in the
    tournament was given 20 or so tickets (the amount of players allowed on
    the roster).  There was no running water available, so the concession
    stand sold water ($1/cup or $3/gal.).
    
    Although we were gouged during the tournament, they did treat us right
    at the Saturday night party.  We went to a bar on the East side of
    Manhatten.  There was a $5 cover charge, but the beer was flowing from
    5:30 pm to about 9:30 pm.  Looking at the advertisements around the
    bar, they do this kind of thing all of the time for Friday happy hours
    and such.
8.1377CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 25 1991 12:5820
Wards Island?

What you described sounded exactly like Randall's Island, where NY RFC
plays.  

Was there mega-seagull poop and lotsa mud under the bridge?


Oh well.  That green-card thing sounds like a first, although when we
were in Malden last year I was not there for registration, and as a
spectator I wouldn't have known anyway.....


Best of luck nexted year Mac.  

Do we play youse guys in the spring?????


'Saw

8.1378CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 25 1991 13:0523
8.1379Bingo Halls can be dangerous to your well being!CST17::FARLEYDSA = Drood(tm) Supporters AnonymousMon Nov 25 1991 13:0615
    I know this doesn't belong here but I don't recall ever
    seeing Madge in any other note and I was wondering if
    he can expand on a news item I heard about a happening
    in Oz.
    
    Apparently a bunch of wimmen beat up some lady at a bingo
    hall after she won her *14th* consecutive game!
    
    Sheesh, talk about a bunch of sore loosers and I'm suprised
    that the granny's would be capable of such violent behavior!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1380Mac & WRFL wimp out again! Film @11:00!!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYDSA = Drood(tm) Supporters AnonymousMon Nov 25 1991 13:091
    
8.1381CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 25 1991 13:1614
Mac, I think you did post it, which was why I had a_inkling that
you might not....


Kev's right, you guys did wimp out again.  8^)


I know one thing.  I'm going to hate giving up squats for spring practice.
I'm just starting to get the hang of them.....


'Saw
    

8.1382We ain't playing Boston this season eitherCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 25 1991 13:332
    We've played Hartford alot in recent years and decided to broaden our
    horizons.
8.1383CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 25 1991 13:4620
>
>    We've played Hartford alot in recent years and decided to broaden our
>    horizons.

Um-hmm.....;^)


Isn't that just special....


You should enjoy Albany.  They will give you a game, no doubt.
Charles River should bring your level of competitiveness up also.


I applaud your decision against Boston.  I hate playing them when we
have to, so why should you when you don't......8^)


'Saw

8.1384sorta like the ACC cancelling the ACC-BE Tournament? nt? ;^)CST17::FARLEYDSA = Drood(tm) Supporters AnonymousMon Nov 25 1991 13:481
    
8.1385BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 25 1991 15:5238
quick update:
	speaking of broadening horizons... We went to Atlanta this weekend
and played FSU twice in preparation for playing them in LA in two weeks
at territorials.  Other than that, our only big game for the season was
playing FSU a month or so ago in Philly.

	We also played SouthEast, first game  on Saturday.  They are a good team,
but not phenomenal.  I have no idea what the score was, something (20-40)-0.
I was at flanker and had a really nice game.  I learned something about
blocking kicks recently in practice which I used in the game and ended up
blocking 2 kicks that I remember, about 5 that Cyndy remembers but she's
biased.  One was in the try zone and we scored a pushover on the resulting
scrum.  Another high point:  there was a ruck, I saw that enough people
were in so I stayed out and called to our scrumhalf for a punch weak.  She 
didn't do that, but took the ball weak herself with me in support, got
stopped right before the try line, passed the ball to me where I skillfully
sidestepped two of them and scored.  Yeah me!  Then, I also tackled their scrum
half several times, stopped, with the help of our #8, their attempts at weak
side back row plays, chased kicks with our winger and thus encouraged their
wings and fullback to drop our kicks...  It was a lot of fun.
	Then we played FSU.  Combination of our surging and relapsing, plus
two players on the field who were selected to get them a game in Georgia
but wouldn't normally play FSU, we only beat them in overtime by a try.
We really should beat them by a lot more, but we have to be on else we're
in trouble.  They are a team that can very easily capitalize on our mistakes.
It was a very exciting game to watch, being very tough and very close, but
we don't want that much excitement when we play them, we want to dominate
more.
	Then we played mostly FSU again on Sunday, they picked up a few more
players because they didn't have enough to send out against us again, and
beat them a lot more decisively.
	Territorials will be a hell of a match, the outcome is very much
up in the air.  I really think we should win, we have a more thoroughly 
integrated team than they do, but if we don't play as hard as we can and
really concentrate, they can beat us.

	
Rachael
8.1386CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Nov 25 1991 16:1517
Congrats Rach!


Listen, what was it you learned about blocking kicks.  See, when I play
hooker, there are two times when I have the potential to do that.

One is their lineout, deep in their territory.  If they win it, chances
are great that their flyhalf gets it and tries to go for touch.  So,
in that situation, that's all I key on.

The other is, obviously, the 22 meter drop....


Waiting for you help.....


'Saw
8.1387BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Nov 25 1991 23:1340
'Saw,
	I didn't write it on purpose because it seemed so obvious that
I was embarassed, but our coach happened to mention to us to watch which
foot they were kicking with.  I used to run at them and try to position
myself in front of the ball, but watching their foot gave me a tremendous
amount more precision.  I think it also gave me more focus which allowed
me to run at the kicker faster.  If you are running at them but aren't
as sure of your body position, it'll make you hesitate more.

	Kind of like in hockey (defense, of course), when you're backing up
and covering someone, there's a big difference between just watching them in
general knowing you don't want them to sidestep you or pass/shoot around you
versus watching a particular part of their body which allows you to distinguish
the moves from the fakes.  Plus, if you have a tight enough control on their
body movement as you take them, you not only can control their skating, but it's
also very easy to stick-check them and thus take away passes or shots.

	More about this weekend, it was so confusing.  SouthEast was really
a good team to play, and I was very happy with how I played.  I know I did
well.  I also know that my teammates think I played well, and I feel like
they respect how I play.  I definitely feel like I'm taken seriously.  But, 
I'm still bummed about not playing FSU, especially as there were two games
against them.
  
	I think the point I'm at now is that they certainly wouldn't consider
it a liability to have me in one of our top games, but there are other flankers
they'd rather have for one reason or another.  The former makes me feel great,
and the latter bums me out.

	I hate being so competetive sometimes.  It'd really be much easier
to just be a sludge.  But, then I'd be a sludge.

	Good thing I've got my rugby buddies here to back me up on tough
Mondays.  :^)

Rachael

PS  You guys would have liked the Miss Ruggerfest contest Saturday night.
The crowds went wild, there we many dollar bills tucked, etc.  One of those
aspects of tournament parties that the men's game just doesn't get....
8.1388CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Nov 26 1991 01:0917
>'Saw,
>	I didn't write it on purpose because it seemed so obvious that
>I was embarassed, but our coach happened to mention to us to watch which
>foot they were kicking with.  I used to run at them and try to position
>myself in front of the ball, but watching their foot gave me a tremendous
>amount more precision.  I think it also gave me more focus which allowed
>me to run at the kicker faster.  If you are running at them but aren't
>as sure of your body position, it'll make you hesitate more.


And hey, when I can't sleep, there's always rugby notes!

Rachael, you know, that makes perfect sense, yet I've never thought
of that.  Mark down a big DUH for me, eh?

thanks, this will help,
'Saw
8.1389BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Nov 27 1991 10:4824
Well, last  night I threw on a pair of tights, my shorts, some sweatpants,
windpants, a silk undershirt, my heaviest jersey, a sweatshirt, and jacket,
and a pair of gloves and then rolled out to practice...

	We worked on some new back row plays on the channel side, which were
fun.  Sometimes playing channel side flanker can be really frustrating,
because if the hooker puts channel one ball in different places each time,
it's impossible to channel.  The wide channel one ball is the worst, even if
you get it, it's hard to move it back to the eight.  It's also slow.  These
plays were quick, and I think they'll work well.

	I realized last night, that even if I don't play FSU at Territorials,
I'm going to play Boston or Maryland.  Maryland is probably the third team
in the East.  Boston is not ranked that high, they can be quite good or really
awful within the same year.  In any case, I'm pretty sure that I'll get a game
against one of them so I'm pretty happy.  

	What should I expect for weather in Baton Rouge in a week and a half?  
About the same as Atlanta?  I hope it's warmer.

Mac, what's the rumor about Mystics chartering a flight with Boston?  I heard
they're going down for $200 each.

Rachael
8.1390Northeast Regional ResultsCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Nov 27 1991 11:5616
8.1391IAMOK::WASKOMWed Nov 27 1991 12:205
    Go Mystics!
    
    Glad to hear they won.  (Already knew the college outcome.)
    
    A&W
8.1392CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Nov 27 1991 12:4128
>    England teams took 2 out of 3 of the slots for Baton Rouge.  In Div. I
>    action, Mystic River (Boston) defeated Old Blue (NY).  From what I
>    hear, Mystic quietly kept extending their lead.  In Div. II, Burlington


Glad to hear this.  They are a good squad!

I know the point is moot, but we had a powerhouse team this year in 
Hartford.  We were very deep at flanker, and our only weak spot
was at Prop.   (Lots of comments about the A side tighthead being 
BIG, but not trying and not doing any weightwork.  First time I've
heard those since being on the team).

In our victories, we blew EVERYONE out, big.  Our loss to Boston
was not a blowout, but Mystic really took us apart.


It is a small consolation to think that we lost to the team that
went on to the Eastern Regionals.  I believe that happened to us
last year against Old Blue, but at least we were in the Northeasts
at the time.


Mac, they kept quietly extending their lead against us too....8^)



'Saw
8.1393CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Dec 02 1991 09:1714
Well, not really rugby, but it was, for obvious reasons, a quiet
week in the gym last week.  Friday night saw three stalwarts in lifting.

I guess maybe I was lazy, but on Wednesday and Friday I cut out the
abs part of my workout.  It didn't hurt because the stomach is getting
a little smaller.

Got a run in on Saturday too.  I won't say it was a breeze, but I will
say that it seemed a little easier that runs in the past.


Back in there sweating tonight.....

'Saw
8.1394BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Dec 02 1991 13:2223
Ahnold thinks that abs are very important, if you work nothing else you should
work abs.  Just check in "AS's Bodybuilding for Men"

We practiced Sunday.  You may think "oh, what fun on a holiday", but it was
actually a nice break from being in the lab here, which is where I was 
before and afterwards...

Tuesday and Thursday we will practice in Malden with the Mystics, as we are 
SOF and SOL.  (Rugby puzzler, who gets it?)

I am really looking forward to Territorials.  There will be lots of rugby
there.  Unless I don't play at all, which I think is very unlikely, I will
get to play against a team that I've never played before, although I'm
not sure who it will be.  I am willing it to be warm in Louisiana, and
for us to beat FSU in the finals by at least 25 points.

And maybe the Rugby Imports truck will be there, or Matt Godeck's.  I need
some new cleats.

Rachael



8.1395CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Dec 02 1991 13:3940
>Ahnold thinks that abs are very important, if you work nothing else you should
>work abs.  Just check in "AS's Bodybuilding for Men"

Yeah, I know...make me feel guilty why don't ya 8^)

Nah, I guess maybe it was my one concession to the holidays.

I've been doing crunches on the inclined board (lowest setting -- I ain't
Ahnold yet), and I try to add between 1 and 5 more each time.  I'm up
to 45.  Then I rest, and do another set of 10.

Then I go on the Nautilus hip flexion machine...

Back at it tonight...

>We practiced Sunday.  You may think "oh, what fun on a holiday", but it was
>actually a nice break from being in the lab here, which is where I was 
>before and afterwards...

Early yesterday was a nice day for rugby.  I notice on Friday that it
would have been superb to have played also.


>Tuesday and Thursday we will practice in Malden with the Mystics, as we are 
>SOF and SOL.  (Rugby puzzler, who gets it?)

Got me stumped.

>And maybe the Rugby Imports truck will be there, or Matt Godeck's.  I need
>some new cleats.

Well, I got the shoemaker to repair my boots.  They will become the
official practice boots, and I'll buy a new pair of boots for the spring.
I'll also get some extra cleats...


'Saw



8.1396FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Dec 02 1991 14:574
    Were the Nationals held this past weekend and if so, what were the
    results?
    
    John
8.1397CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Dec 02 1991 15:0213
>    Were the Nationals held this past weekend and if so, what were the
>    results?
    
Nationals won't be held until the Spring.

It's my understanding that the other three Unions (Pacific, Western,
Midwestern) don't hold their tournaments until the spring.

Eastern is the only one who knows their Final Four entry prior to 
Christmas....


'Saw
8.1398Lions win MidwestCHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 02 1991 15:046
8.1399FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Dec 02 1991 15:085
    I was under the impression from reading all these notes and hearing
    rumors about a trip to Orlando that the nationals were held in late
    Fall.
    
    John
8.1400CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Dec 02 1991 15:5721
>    I was under the impression from reading all these notes and hearing
>    rumors about a trip to Orlando that the nationals were held in late
>    Fall.
    
No, that would be the Eastern Regionals.   

In New England, Mystic River won the league, and competed against three
other area teams (Albany, Old Blue, ?) for the Northeast Regional title.
They won it.

Now they travel to Baton Rouge to compete for the Eastern title.

If they win the Eastern title, they'll play Chicago or one of two 
other teams, one from the West, and one from the Pacific, for the
National crown in the spring.


Mac,  I'm surprised about the Midwest...  Oh well.


'Saw
8.1401FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Dec 02 1991 15:585
    Saw, I stand corrected.  Thanks.  I'll be looking forward to hearing
    those results when they become known.  I believe the 4th team in the
    Northeast Region was Boston.
    
    John
8.1402CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Dec 02 1991 16:0311
>    Saw, I stand corrected.  Thanks.  I'll be looking forward to hearing
>    those results when they become known.  I believe the 4th team in the
>    Northeast Region was Boston.


I kinda thought that, but if you know a little bit about the Hartford-Boston
um, er, "rivalry", you'll know that neither would like to acknowledge the
others exist 8^)


There's always the New Englands for us to get revenge!!!!
8.1403CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 02 1991 16:064
8.1404CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Mon Dec 02 1991 16:199
8.1405BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Dec 02 1991 17:218
'SAW, AHEM! CARE TO INCLUDE THE 5TIME NATIONAL CHAMPS IN THAT SUMMARY OF WHO
GOES TO TERRITORIALS?

Thanks,

Rachael

PS I'll give you a hint.  We're going and Boston Women's is going as a wildcard.
8.1406Division I Tunnel Vision at its best ;^)CHIEFF::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 02 1991 17:361
    Racheal, 'Saw didn't mention the Div. II or Collegiate either.
8.1407BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Dec 02 1991 20:3713
Well, Mac, I guess I should take it easy on him, since he's just a rookie!
Those Wanderers might not have told him that anyone else is going...


:^)

Rachael

PS  So, John, if you really want to know what's happening in Baton Rouge
this weekend, it's the Championships of the East for the Division I and II
men, men's and women's Collegiate (I assume the men's will be there) and the
women's club division.  I'll try to catch the full results for you guys,
but I have a hard enough time remembering our scores...
8.1408CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Dec 03 1991 09:3329
	Cut me, and I'll bleed Green and Black.

	Boston doesn't exist.  However I do remember playing
	   a bunch of hooligans from that area who wore
	   black jersies with white collars....

	Providence is a bunch of wimps who couldn't figure a way
	   to beat us if they had Einstein on their team.

	Amoskeag gave us a better game that Old Gold could EVER
	   hope to.

	What's Division II?

	Women play Rugby????


So there 8^)......


Actually, the reason I only mentioned Division I is that it is the only
Division that I'm sure of how it works.


Have a happy....

'Saw

8.1409BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 03 1991 11:1928
8.1410CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Dec 03 1991 11:4936
8.1411GENRAL::WADEthe buck of the IrishTue Dec 03 1991 13:205
    
    	That's nothing 'Saw.  Wait'll you see all the New Years 
    	Resolutioners! :^)
    
    	Claybone
8.1412CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Dec 03 1991 13:348
>    	That's nothing 'Saw.  Wait'll you see all the New Years 
>    	Resolutioners! :^)
    
Funny, Claybone, I was thinking the SAME thing on my way home lasted night.

8^)

'Saw
8.1413Maybe a race or a contest is in order?????CST17::FARLEYDSA = Drood(tm) Supporters AnonymousTue Dec 03 1991 14:149
    U Cal - Irvine released a study yesterday which said the
    average 'merican will put on 7 pounds between turkey-day and
    noo years.....
    BTW, the average 'merican will also LOSE 5 of those pounds after
    the first.
    
    Has anybody here gotten to that plateau yet?
    
    Kev+2
8.1414CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Dec 03 1991 14:356
Well, you can't count me because I've been eating less, but the
workouts are actually putting a little weight on.

I suppose it's highly probably though.....

'Saw
8.1415BUUUUUUUUURRRRRRPPPPP!CTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSTue Dec 03 1991 15:331
    
8.1416BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 03 1991 17:3911
No practice, no meeting, no nothing.

So I get to:

a)  Go home and watch my dog leap up and down in the snow.  (She likes snow), or

b)  Stay here and play with my xilinxes.

Sigh.  Guess who wins.  But I'm out of here noon Friday no matter what...

Rachael
8.1417CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Tue Dec 03 1991 17:4714
>a)  Go home and watch my dog leap up and down in the snow.  (She likes snow), or
>
>b)  Stay here and play with my xilinxes.
>
>Sigh.  Guess who wins.  But I'm out of here noon Friday no matter what...


hey, there's always go to the gym and work out....8^)


I've got to go home and figure out why the furnace ain't running...


'Saw
8.1418Thanks in advance, you can mail me if you wantRUNAWY::CBULLS::MBROOKSWed Dec 04 1991 10:2016
    Ok Ive never played rugby or watched a game live so Id like the real
    truth.  How rough is it ?  How big do you have to be ?  Can a little
    guy play or is it that rough. 
    
    Im only 5'8" and currently at 177lbs (down from 216 I may add) and am
    starting to get some of my speed back (I still hold records at my home
    town JHS in maynard)  Would there be a place for a medium sized, weight
    and fast guy like me on a rugby team ?  If so where around the Hudson
    Marlboro/Maynard area do they play ? How do you get started ? and is it
    expensive ? (I think you just ne da shoes, right).
    
    I joke around and put down rugby and soccer but that all in fun, rugby
    sounds intresting (Soccers still for wimps).
    
    							Curiousity Kills
    							M.Air.Brooks
8.1419CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 11:0249
>    Ok Ive never played rugby or watched a game live so Id like the real
>    truth.  How rough is it ?  How big do you have to be ?  Can a little
>    guy play or is it that rough. 

In rugby, really there is a spot for everyone.  Look at it this way:
If *I* can play the game, ANYONE can.

Rough, hmmm.  That's hard to say.  I've gotten used to it, so if something
seems rough to me, it's probably REALLY rough.   Let's just say the game
has it's moments.  

Typically, you end up scraped up a little, maybe scratched up a little, 
bruised up more often.  Rare occasions see some cuts that require stitches,
and even more rare is a broken bone.  Really though, you learn how to
take a hit, and for me, I get to the point where I'm having so much
fun, I don't know if I hurt or not.

As to big, big isn't important to play rugby, but fitness is.  It never
hurts to run, run, run, and lift, lift, lift...
    
>    Im only 5'8" and currently at 177lbs (down from 216 I may add) and am
>    starting to get some of my speed back (I still hold records at my home
>    town JHS in maynard)  Would there be a place for a medium sized, weight
>    and fast guy like me on a rugby team ?  If so where around the Hudson
>    Marlboro/Maynard area do they play ? How do you get started ? and is it
>    expensive ? (I think you just ne da shoes, right).


Sure.  We've got a fullback/wing who's 5'8" and used to weigh around 150.
Fast as lightning, and when you tackled him, it was like tackling a
bag full of elbows.   He's bulked up a little recently.

In short, YES, there would be.


Expensive?  Well, a medium price range pair of boots will run you $80,
but it might be less if you buy low cuts (I'm a tight five forward and they
almost always where high cuts for ankle support).   You'll need to
buy a jersey from your team.  And there's club dues, but on the whole
it really isnt' that expensive.


Where to start?  Contact Mac, because he plays for Worcester, and that's
right in your area I think.

    
Good luck.

'Saw
8.1420the Sport of the godsCTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 11:2112
    Brooksie,
    Ever play soccer? Tis not fer wimps. Cain be rough and is a
    GREAT sport.
    
    In fact, went to a high school grudge match coupla months ago.
    Two players were carried off, one with a broken collarbone, the
    other with a compound fracture of the laig. Things got a little
    rough round the penalty area in the second half. You needs Cojones
    ta play soccer. Take it to da bank.
    
    MikeL
     
8.1421How 'bout tractor pulls?TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHDr. Seuss - RIPWed Dec 04 1991 12:139
>   Two players were carried off, one with a broken collarbone, the
>   other with a compound fracture of the laig. Things got a little
 
Gee, I guess that makes it a good sport.  Mikey, you probably like 'Merican 
Gladiators too.

[lotsa 8^)]

=Bob=
8.1422purely unintentionalCTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 12:1911
    Jest their costumes Bob. 8^)
    Didn't mean to overemphasize the violence of this particular match
    as it was unintentional. No one weas red-carded, just yellow-carded.
    In the heat of combat things happen. Guees I conveyed the wrong
    message. I'll just give meself acoupla dope slaps. Soccer is a great
    sport, and it cain git rough. Mea culpa.
    
    MikeL
     
    
    
8.1423Gof for it.BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Dec 04 1991 12:4051
I'll second everything 'Saw said and add my own.

As for size, well, I used to play occaisionally for the men's B-side at school
and I'm 5'4", and weighed about 135lbs at the time.  That's a little extreme, 
but you don't really have to be big.  You just hear about all the galoots all
the time because 'Saw, Mac, and I are all forwards, those two really are
pretty big and I think I am.

I don't think you need to be blindingly fast, either.  Generally, at some
point you either have to be big enough to hit or fast enough not to get
hit that much, but I think you'd have to be much smaller than you said to
worry about it.  Plus, in the second side games, which is where you start,
you play other second sides and it's not the same as playing somebody as
tremendous and powerful and the Wanderer's A-side. (Give me $5, 'Saw)

Is it really rough?  Well, I think that depends.  To us,  it feels pretty
normal.  Like, the rougher the game, assuming it's kept clean, the better.
To go out and play a hard game, to run fast and hit hard, it's the greatest
feeling on Earth.  I have very clear visions of the hardest hit I ever took,
it was from a fairly large guy, an open field tackle.  It took me a moment
to get going again, but it was very clean and it was a great tackle.  Doesn't
bother me a bit.  

I think your perspective changes as a player.  If you took an average sloth
and put him in the game, (or her, but since you're all guys I'll use him),
he might come out, look at all the bruises and/or scrapes, etc, and think
"my god that's brutal".  But, once you learn that, yes, if you cut 'Saw
he'll bleed green and black but so what?, then it doesn't phase you anymore.
We are not made of china, it's ok if we bump into each other and a few bruises
won't kill you.

The other thing to remember is, we were all rookies once.  Nobody was born
knowing how to play.  Any team that's worth a sh*t will welcome completely
inexperienced players.  Worcester is probably the team you want, given
where you live, and I'm sure they will be fine.  Mac's a good teacher.

And, lastly, it' OK to try it, you don't have to go out the first day and
commit yourself.  Nobody will expect that.  Saw's got nice cleats, but you
don't need those right off the bat, any pair of soccer cleat will do to
start you, and you can get those down about $25.  Plus $1.50 for your
mouthguard, and a pair of shorts and a shirt that you're not saving for
anything.  On our team, you can get by without a jersey as you can always
borrow one from somebody who's not playing in your game.  I have two, long
sleeved and short sleeved, and a poor friend of mine wore my second one all
season.   Shorts are a little harder, you really want rugby shorts as most
others won't last through the game and that can be darned embarassing.  They
cost about $17, but you can get by without them if you have others close
enough in color that will survive.


Rachael
8.1424Come to Worcester!CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Dec 04 1991 12:5427
    Sorry Mike, but any sport that has to resort to cheapshots and
    penalties to get a reputation of being rough doesn't measure up in my
    book.
    
    M. Brooks, all I could do is duplicate what 'Saw and Rachael said, so I
    won't.  I will add that our club, the Worcester RFC would be very happy
    to have you.  We have a very good coach, and several experienced
    players that are glad to take some time and work with newcomers.  We
    practice on Tuesday and Thursday evenings in Worcester.  We'll probably
    start in a gym (or on the artificial turf at WPI if there isn't much
    snow) towards the end of February.  I think Worcester strikes a very
    good balance between being a competitive team on the field and a good
    social club off the field.  Games are on Saturdays at 1 pm beginning
    the first week of April or so and running until the first week of June
    or so.
    
    In the interest of equal time, there is another club in your area (or
    at least they were the last time I played them about 3 years ago). 
    Charles River plays(ed?) their games in Maynard.  They are a Division I
    club who just manages to stay out of Div. II each year.  I think you'd
    be happier playing for Worcester (and you don't sound like prop
    material, so you won't be taking my job ;^) ), but if you want a
    contact at Charles River, send me mail.
    
    If you'd like to meet some of the WRFC players during the off season,
    we are having another Blood Donor night in Worcester on Dec. 12, and
    our annual Christmas Party/Awards banquet is on Dec. 13.
8.1425CTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 13:0513
    Sorry Mac,
    Disagree. soccer is a great sport, IMO. It does not resort to
    cheapshots and penalties. Good clean hard tackling in soccer can
    be rough. Don't use my poor and stupid example of what can happen
    in a hotly-contested soccer match as a judgement of the sport.
    Not trying to be patronizing as I don't know if you are aware,but
    a yellow card usually indicates a foul of an unintentional nature.
    Unintentional meaning no attempt to injure. Red cards, or deliberate
    attempts to injure are rare. But they do happen as I'm sure they do
    on the rare occasion in rugby.
    
    MikeL
    
8.1426CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 13:2817
Last time we played AT Charles River, it was at Hanscom AFB.

Air, I've got to say that Rachael and Mac said about all of it.


The toughest hit I ever took was in the New Haven game earlier this
fall.  They ran a penalty crash play, with their biggest prop carrying
the ball.  He must've outweighed me by 40 pounds anyway.   I hit him
as hard as I could and slowed him up a little. It stunned me, and I was
a bit numb for a minute.  But I managed to get up and jog after the
play, and all was fine...  That's the way it is 99% of the time on 
a tough hit.

The rest of the time it's pure fun....


'Saw
8.1427TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHDr. Seuss - RIPWed Dec 04 1991 13:4510
OK, to get serious on soccer vs. rugby.

I've played some soccer and no rugby, but it seems that the emphasis is different
in each.  Soccer is based on running, kicking and position.  The hits you take 
on tackles don't necessary have to be violent to be effective.  In rugby (most  
of my knowledge comes from this note), a large part of the strategy comes from 
hitting the other team harder than thye hit you.  To me, to compare the two for
'toughness' is like apples and oranges.

=Bob=
8.1428CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 13:5528
>OK, to get serious on soccer vs. rugby.

I view it as two branches of the same tree.

I've played both.  Ruggers tend to have the reaction that the Eagles
did when i told them I had played soccer before.  They said 
(direct quote) "What are you, a fag?"....

But from my perspective, there are parts of soccer that can be physical.
I've played both forward and defense, and have had collisions.  I've 
also played goalie and had ribs so sore from collisions that I could
barely put my arms at my side.


To me, the difference is this:  

	Soccer gets physical from time to time.  It demands fitness,	
	but not quite as much as in rugby (ie you can sneak a little
	rest from time to time).....


	Rugby is physical much more of the time, and the fitness demands
	are of a more mixed nature.  (For example, if I didn't have to
	scrum, I could make it through a game a lot easier.  Or if all
	I had to do was scrum and not pursue full out).

JMHO,
'Saw
8.1429c'est finiCTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 14:158
    Thank you wise sages for your comments. I agree with you both.
    I never intended to get into a rugby vs soccer debate. Apples vs
    oranges is correct. I was reacting to Mr Brooks' comments that
    soccer is for wimps which i believe he made half tongue in cheek
    (kinda like his idol! 8^) ). 
    
    MikeL
    
8.1430Careful Mike, we don't want to waken the BOSSCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Dec 04 1991 14:194
8.1431Ya got me!CTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 14:226
    Hah,
    I saw that Mac, simply slipped my mind. was a good one.
    Looked like MY 8th grade soccer team (of which I was a proud geek!)
    
    MikeL
    
8.1432Important advice for those considering playing RugbyCST17::FARLEYDSA = Drood(tm) Supporters AnonymousWed Dec 04 1991 15:1922
    Brooksie,
    
    *IF* ya decide to look seriously into Rugby,
    
    *AND* decide ya want to play,
    
    *AND* ya decide what team to play for
    
    *AND* ya actually go out and play........
    
    
    
    
    
    	Cain *I* have your car when you're DAID?????  Put me in your will
    OK?  
    
    
    
    Kev_who_knew_better_after_he_talked_to_his_All-England_Team_Boss!!!!!!!!!
    ;^)
    
8.1433CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 15:3228
To refute the comments of the esteemed Mr. Farley (Farley?  where did I 
put that danged filter code???)  I'll say this:


	I've played three full seasons.  My "injuries" have been:


		a) jammed little fingers on each hand, one in the first
		   season, one this past fall.

		b) numerous bruises.

		c) one black eye

		d) some cleat marks

		e) scrapes, scratches and the like.


I didn't break my hand playing rugby, however two weeks after I broke
it I was back playing, with no detriment to the hand -- in fact in the
five weeks that followed my return, I had ONE hit that hurt the hand.


So, you ain't gonna wind up daid......


'Saw
8.1434If you put in the rules, any game can be as "rough" as you wantGUSHER::WAUGAMANWed Dec 04 1991 15:3212
    
    Forget about "toughness", which game requires more *skill*?  That's
    what counts.
    
    One of the major reasons that baseball is my favorite sport is because
    I believe it requires more different skills at a higher level of
    refinement than any other.  Not athleticism, but skill.  There are
    elements of toughness involved, and that's good (we're not talking
    golf here), but skill is paramount.
    
    glenn
    
8.1435yer just LUCKY Mr. Droodmaster(tm) - taunting fate I say!CST17::FARLEYDSA = Drood(tm) Supporters AnonymousWed Dec 04 1991 15:341
    
8.1436CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 15:3627
>    Forget about "toughness", which game requires more *skill*?  That's
>    what counts.
    
I would say rugby.

All players are expected to carry the ball (which believe me, I've learned
is one of the hardest things to do well).

All players must know how to pass.

They are also expected to tackle well.

Scrummaging is a skill which is extremely important for a forward, and
most important for a tight-five forward.

Hookers have a special skill set on top of scrummaging -- that of hooking,
AND throwing lineout balls.    


These are "off the top o' my haid", and say nothing of rugby strategy
(ie knowing when to pass and when not to pass etc etc etc)...


Having played both, that's my opinion....


'Saw
8.1437CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 15:3710
>         -< yer just LUCKY Mr. Droodmaster(tm) - taunting fate I say! >-


I have found in my experience that if you are worried about being
injured, you will be.  If you say "Aw f___ it, I'm gonna play", you usually
turn out quite okay...


'Saw    

8.1438Are you as good as Mac or Rachael??CTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 15:4211
    Well 'Saw, I for one was completely aghast and agog with shock and
    surprise when you said "Rugby" 8^)
    
    As far as injuries:
    Don't fergit your porous "wound" where you pin your "Rugby is a Way of
    Life" badge directly to your chest. After all you is a charter member
    of the RugbyKrishnas!!  Mucho 8^)'s
    
    MikeL
    
    
8.1439"Usually" could mean "Not Always" too!CST17::FARLEYMcDroodburgers - toss em up or down!Wed Dec 04 1991 15:4610
    In that famous "Wizard of Oz" Voice:
    
    "MISTER BROOKS - PAY NO ATTENTION TO THOSE CORPSES BEHIND THE CURTAIN"
    
    hth
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1440COBRA::BRYDIEHoward Roark laughed.Wed Dec 04 1991 15:556
    
     In regards to the discussion about which sport takes a higher degree 
    of skill baseball or rugby, it has been said that the hardest thing to
    do in all of sport is to hit a baseball. When you consider that someone
    who gets three hits for every ten at-bats is considered exceptional it
    becomes difficult to argue the point.
8.1441CTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSWed Dec 04 1991 15:595
    The hardest thang to do is clear knock down that spread eagle
    in candlepin bowling! A loser every time
    
    MikeL
    
8.1442CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 16:0410
We weren't comparing rugby and baseball.

Hitting a baseball is pretty danged complex.

Soccer and rugby are related so it's easier.


Of course, when you're hitting a baseball you don't have someone trying
to level you either. 8^)    

8.1443BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Dec 04 1991 17:3639
For a more serious answer,

Rugby requires both a great deal of thought, and no thought at all.  Pretend
to stop time, poof, while a game is going on.  What you have there is a 
situation.  The better the team is, the quicker they will identify a particular
situation, and the more cohesively they will approach it.

For example, if we win their put-in, I expect our #8 to pick up the ball
and go weak.  There are countless points like that which you just have to
know to play well.  If you wait to see where the ball goes and then follow
it, offensively or defensively, you will be too late.  You have to be able
to predict and cover.  However, you can't stand there on the field and think
about what to do and then do it, you must be well versed so that it becomes
instinct during the game.

As a play is happening, the closer you can get to instinct, the better you
are.  (Only thing is, your whole team has to have the same instinct)  This
is done by thinking about situations beforehand, and practicing them.  You
also have to be heads up enough to follow the flow of the game, so that if
a particular situation goes well, you push it, if you're losing that one,
you avoid it.  Thus, the combination of thinking and not thinking.

My team is not the biggest team in the US, nor the fastest.  We don't have
the best kickers.  We have plenty of talent, but so do the other teams.  We
are the best because we play a thinking game, and because we play together.
One of the best compliments we ever got, IMO, was somebody who said we were
the only true women's "club" in America.  Not just a team, but a club.

As for injuries, the fitter you are and the harder you play, the safer you are. 
But there are no guarentees.  But, then, what in life is really guarenteed?
You just take your risks where you like.  Some people drive fast, some drink
and drive, some ski, some play rugby.  Personally, I tend to drive like
someone's grandma and people behind me on little roads get very testy
sometimes...  I'm probably going to give away my motorcycle because it's
a pain to maintain (it's almost as old as me) and also because I don't feel
like taking the risks anymore...  But I love rugby and intend to play till
I'm about 40 or more.

Rachael
8.1444CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Wed Dec 04 1991 18:0249
Rachael brings up an excellent point.

The HARDEST part for me is getting to know the game.

First you go through a period of learning the rules, and things like
where to be.  You learn where to stand on the kickoff.  You learn things
like the team that SCORES the try, gets to RECEIVE the kick, not kickoff.

The most important thing to learn is that as much of a dork as he may
be, the Ref is addressed as "Sir", and you'd better have a tad of
respect attached.  Best rule of thumb is unless your the captain of the
side on the field (and a first year guy WON'T be) keep your mouth shut
unless you are injured and need a minute.

After you get the basics down, then you start with the "situations" like
Rachael talked about.

One thing that I learned this year, when I played hooker for a time, was
that if a team wins their  lineout deep in their own end, chances are really
high that the flyhalf will get the ball and kick for touch.  From my
position in the lineout I'd key on the flyhalf, and assume he'd be getting
the ball.  If anything else happened I could adjust.

The other thing you learn is "fitness management".  For example, if the
other team booms a kick that our fullback is going to handle easily,
and will most likely turn around and loft a clearing kick of his own,
then I won't head back hell bent for leather.   I'll be moving back that
way, but I'll try to manage my "fuel tank" a little.  Of course, if he
drops it, then I'll be motoring back....


So, as you progress you learn more and more about the game, and it really
starts to be absolute fun when things start coming like reflexes...

I experienced that this past fall, because rucking (or actually WHEN to
ruck) started to just feel like I'd known it forever....


I'd say do this:  Contact Mac and Woostah, and do some running in the
offseason.  Do a little lifting too.  Then go to some practices.

Listen, listen, listen, work your butt off, and next thing you know,
you'll be lining up for your first game.

When you're done with that first game, the feeling of accomplishment
is wonderful.....


'Saw
8.1445BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Dec 04 1991 18:4016
I don't know if either of you guys ever got reffed by JoAnn, but I used to
call her Sir when I was captain in school.

I believe it's the law that you have to call the ref sir (or madam) and also
that nobody except the captain is permitted to speak to the ref.  (As opposed
to just custom).  If a player or a fan mouths off to the ref, he/she will
generally call a penalty against that team.

I believe that no matter what you do, you'll never be ready for your first
game.  You just have to play it anyways, then afterwards you realize you
were ready after all.

'Saw, do you ever just feel like sitting down in the middle of the field
when the fullbacks are playing ping-pong?

Rachael
8.1446I'm Back (from the dead)EDUOZ::THURGARWed Dec 04 1991 20:4434
    Sorry, but I have been away.
    
    RE: 8.1379 Didnt hear about the fighting grannies. But I wouldnt
    discount it either. We breed them tough down here. Plus Bingo is a
    pretty tough game.
    
    RE: 8.1418 M_Air_Brooks - get on the paddock and start playing. Watch
    some videos of international rugby and there are players of all
    different sizes and builds. The centres may suit your stocky (?) build
    and speed. Learning the rules and positions is tough (like any new
    game), but instinct play comes with time. A hard thing to get used to
    (for Americans) is getting hit without any padding. Lots of bumps and
    bruises. The best thing is the friendship and closeness you develop.
    Rugby is an old sport, full of tradition and pride. You join a world
    wide fraternity
    
    RE: 8.1423 Rachael, what do you mean that we are not born to play. If
    you are born in Australia or New Zealand you have special rugby genes.
    If you concieve whilst wearing that orange jersey on, the offspring is
    bound to be a champion. Ever heard of the special properties of the
    maroon jersey to get the "sloop pointing north".
    
    RE: 8.1433 For M_A_B's benefit I will not list the injuries sustained
    from playing rugby for 14 years. The worst thing was a constantly
    dislocating thumb (kept playing for the rest of the season). Also I
    hate getting rucked out. Getting spiked on a cold day and then they
    really hurt when you have a hot shower or bath. Also opposition hookers
    lifting the back of there heads into your face is unpleasant. Also
    having your testicles grabbed is not too nice. I could go on for hours.
    
    Last thing: Get M_A_B a copy of teh Aust V NZ semi from the WC. He will
    be hooked
    
    Madge
8.1447CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Thu Dec 05 1991 10:07119
Rachael --

I didn't see anywhere in the laws about calling the ref "Sir".  It could
be in there.

It's been my experience that if you're not a captain, the ref usually
doesn't mind a question, as in you've just run from halfway across the
field, and you say "What's the call sir?".

Also, in a game that's been pretty good natured, they'll allow some little
stuff to go on like "He's been offsides all day Sir"...

And they usually don't mind a hooker telling them "Please keep an eye
on their scrumhalf Sir, he's feeding him..."  They'll always pass it
off with something like "If I see it I'll call it", but you've planted
the seed anyway...


Fullback ping-pong.   Yeah.  I just sit there, when my guy kicks I put
my hand in the air until I hear "You're ON!", and then move slightly
towards them.  Their fullback boots and and we repeat the process 8^)


Madge,

>                      <<< Note 8.1446 by EDUOZ::THURGAR >>>
>                         -< I'm Back (from the dead) >-

So you WERE on tour with Jerry Garcia and the boys....



>    A hard thing to get used to
>    (for Americans) is getting hit without any padding. Lots of bumps and
>    bruises. The best thing is the friendship and closeness you develop.
>    Rugby is an old sport, full of tradition and pride. You join a world
>    wide fraternity


I didn't have a problem with getting hit.  I noticed that if I was attempting
to play our brand of rugby (maul in our half, ruck in theirs) that most
times I was taking a hit in the back.  I guess you could say I'm a
conservative player.  90% of the time if I take a kickoff, I turn and
set the maul -- hell they can hit my back all day and it won't bother
me.

If I'm carrying the ball, I'm running low anyway (as a forward should)
so it doesn't seem to hurt.  I have been hit really hard a couple of
times, but I guess you get used to it.


The place where I get wanged the most is lineouts.  I've had more locks
plant their elbows in the top of my head (THAT HURTS), and taken more
whacks in the face during lineouts than any other phase of the game.

And oh, the hooker's knee into my cheek/nose when I'm playing tighthead isn't
really fun either.


Tradition --

YES. I agree with that 100%.  One thing I noticed when I started playing
rugby is that everyone shakes hands.

YOu get to practice, see a guy you saw at practice two nights before,
you shake hands.  Saturday morning Game Day, you arrive, shake hands.
After the game you line up and shake hands....

In fact, one of the things I like the most about rugby is that it's probably
a Noble War.  You go out, play as hard as you can, HIT as hard as you can,
tackle, run, scrum....  And win or lose at the end of the game you
line up and shake the other teams hands and there's a mutual respect
there.   It's almost as if the teams are saying "Okay, you were better
today, but we BOTH survived the contest, and there will be a next time..."

    
>    RE: 8.1423 Rachael, what do you mean that we are not born to play. If
>    you are born in Australia or New Zealand you have special rugby genes.
>    If you concieve whilst wearing that orange jersey on, the offspring is
>    bound to be a champion. Ever heard of the special properties of the
>    maroon jersey to get the "sloop pointing north".

Madge -- Maybe I'd better order a Wallabies jersey from you.  I want
my kid to be a prop.  I'll want him to be about 6', weigh around 220
(100 kg), have a physique that won't quit, have speed, have a hard
head that takes stitches well.  And he'll be lean too....


    
>    RE: 8.1433 For M_A_B's benefit I will not list the injuries sustained
>    from playing rugby for 14 years. The worst thing was a constantly
>    dislocating thumb (kept playing for the rest of the season). Also I
>    hate getting rucked out. Getting spiked on a cold day and then they
>    really hurt when you have a hot shower or bath. Also opposition hookers
>    lifting the back of there heads into your face is unpleasant. Also
>    having your testicles grabbed is not too nice. I could go on for hours.

Worst thing in the world when you play prop:

	Late in the game, you're leading by 3 points.  They have
	pressure on you and they've just been awarded a 5 meter	
	scrum.

	You bind on the hooker, he calls for the second row while
	you're starting to try and stare down the opposing prop,
	getting your arm up to fend him off.
	
	Just as you start to go in, your lock grabs a handful of
	gonads, because he hasn't found the waistband of your shorts.

	What are ya gonna do?

	Just scrum, baby....just scrum.    


yeah, we'll get M_A_B out there... No problem...


'Saw
8.1448BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Dec 05 1991 11:1427
Whoops, I take it back,  those people running around upside down were born
knowing how to play.  Now, for the rest of us mortals...

'Saw, I'm impressed that you read the laws.  Last time I saw them they didn't
seem to be written in English.  Maybe some Latin dialect...

I'm surprised that you have people talking to the ref like that.  With some
refs I could see asking what the call was like you said, but I would never
ask them to watch a particular thing unless I was the captain.  Closest I'll
come to that is saying "Patty, please ask the ref to watch xxx" and if the
ref happens to hear, well, then they heard.  If I miss the call and I want to 
know what it is, I just ask one of my teammates. Usually, if the ref is nearby 
and they hear me and they feel like answering, they do.

The refs we get range from completely conversational to very rigid about
the code.  It is not infrequent that our captains get warned in the pre-game
meeting that no player (except the captain) will be suffered to speak to
the referee.  I've also had several refs tell me, in post game chatting,
that our team is very quiet and how nice that is.

I am a purist in this regard, I will admit.

Rachael

PS Madge, it's about time you got back.
PPS I bet we'll be indoors today.  I would have skated to my car, but my
skates are in the back of my car...
8.1449CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Thu Dec 05 1991 12:0215
>The refs we get range from completely conversational to very rigid about
>the code.  It is not infrequent that our captains get warned in the pre-game
>meeting that no player (except the captain) will be suffered to speak to
>the referee.  I've also had several refs tell me, in post game chatting,
>that our team is very quiet and how nice that is.

It's very rare that the Wanderers mess up on this score.  A&W will
attest to the Boston debacle however.

Actually, we are very quiet usually.  I've only slipped up once in 
three seasons while on the pitch.  Usually I'm the one telling the other
guys to "be quiet"....


'Saw
8.1450IAMOK::WASKOMThu Dec 05 1991 12:2612
    I've noticed from the sidelines that the leniency of the ref in regards
    to speaking directly to players is dependent on the level of the game
    and its importance.  C side games, the ref can get positively chatty,
    as those are generally regarded as a learning opportunity.  A side
    games with a championship at stake, don't even look at the guy unless
    you're the captain, and then be very, very careful.  :-)  I've been on
    the sidelines of a game where a team was penalized for the very vocal
    complaining of the bystanders.  A couple of guys were not-so-gently
    escorted back to the parking lot after that one (after car keys were
    confiscated so they wouldn't be a hazard on the road).
    
    A&W
8.1451heh heh hehLUNER::BROOKSStardate 12.06.91 - BE THERE !Thu Dec 05 1991 13:066
    Rugby is for 1/2 humans who like their meat raw, their women wild, and
    clothes unwashed.
    
    And that's a fact,
    
    Doc
8.1452CAMONE::WAYThe King of the Droods(tm)Thu Dec 05 1991 13:1622
Actually, I think it's quite the opposite.

Ruggers come from all walks of life.  On our team, we have carpenters,
electricians, nuclear engineers, software engineers, computer sales types,
lawyers, biologists, salesmen, teachers...

We ALL like measuring ourselves on the toughness yardstick, and in that
regard we are no different than mountain climbers, sky divers, stunt
pilots...


I think where the quality shows though is at the national level, where
you have men who make the commitment of the professional athlete, and
also have the responsibility of holding down real jobs.  There's only
one non-rugger I can think of who does that too, and that's Pat Peterson,
the marathoner.


As to liking my women wild, yes Doc old boy, you've hit the nail on the head!


'Saw
8.1453BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Dec 05 1991 16:136
I also beg to differ.  I never eat raw meat, and we do many loads of laundry
a week, especially during the season.

:^)

Rachael
8.1454CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 05 1991 16:2327
    Here's an approximate cost breakdown.  'Saw and Rachael gave some good
    info.
    
    Club Dues - $55/season (this works out to about $5/week.  In Worcester
    you get fed after every home game and get a few beers on the club. 
    Away games you are the guest of the opponent and they spring for the
    beer and sometimes food.  For point of reference, the DEC basketball
    league dues were $63 this year)
    
    Kit (uniform)-  As 'Saw and Rachael said, you can get by for awhile
    without buying a shirt and borrow one from someone.  WRFC jerseys are
    $35 each.  We wear black shorts ($15-$18 depending on style), and black
    knee socks ($5-$7).  Acrylic jerseys will last a lifetime, cotton needs
    to be replaced every couple of years.  Socks will also pretty much last
    a lifetime, but shorts need to be replaced every year or two.  Boots
    range in price from $25 to $125 depending on make and model.
    
    As Madge said, it is a world wide fraternity.  I have played in
    England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Grand Cayman, Texas, Washington
    D.C., Atlanta and Baltimore as well as throughout New England and New
    York.  Players from Oklahoma, Wales, Ireland and England have stayed at
    my house while playing my club.  I have friends in all of those places
    thanks to rugby.
    
    Doc, I'd even welcome you to the WRFC ;^).  You have a chance to become
    the 3rd Worcester Touch Footballer in the history of the WRFC to play
    for the club.
8.1455CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackThu Dec 05 1991 16:3651
>    Club Dues - $55/season (this works out to about $5/week.  In Worcester
>    you get fed after every home game and get a few beers on the club. 
>    Away games you are the guest of the opponent and they spring for the
>    beer and sometimes food.  For point of reference, the DEC basketball
>    league dues were $63 this year)


And to contrast, and show you what a GREAT deal you get with Worcester,
in Hartford dues are $100/season.  It used to be $75 with a $3-5 fee per
home game to cover food and beer after, but they went to $100 and 
did away with the game fee.

Our club owns the bar "Johnnies" which is about 200 yards from our pitch.
Our drinkups are there, and again, the clubs usually buys 2 kegs, and
sometimes food.


    
>    Kit (uniform)-  As 'Saw and Rachael said, you can get by for awhile
>    without buying a shirt and borrow one from someone.  WRFC jerseys are
>    $35 each.  We wear black shorts ($15-$18 depending on style), and black
>    knee socks ($5-$7).  Acrylic jerseys will last a lifetime, cotton needs
>    to be replaced every couple of years.  Socks will also pretty much last
>    a lifetime, but shorts need to be replaced every year or two.  Boots
>    range in price from $25 to $125 depending on make and model.

Our jersies are $45. Shorts are the same price.  I prefer the New Zealand
style over the English, just because I play in the front row and like
the extra leg room.

Our jersies are cotton (Mac, don't the acrylic ones get HOT?)

Boots:  depending on where you play they can take a beating.  Mine lasted
three seasons before they blew out, but again, playing in the front row will
do that.

Backs hardly EVER get new boots 8^)



>    As Madge said, it is a world wide fraternity.  I have played in
>    England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Grand Cayman, Texas, Washington
>    D.C., Atlanta and Baltimore as well as throughout New England and New
>    York.  Players from Oklahoma, Wales, Ireland and England have stayed at
>    my house while playing my club.  I have friends in all of those places
>    thanks to rugby.
    

Amen.

8.1457CTHQ2::LEARYBetter than LDSThu Dec 05 1991 16:559
    
    Anyone seen Mr Brooks lately? All you rugby types probably scared
    the livin bejeezus out of him with yer unabashed zeal. Easy boys and
    girls, he's a-probably lookin' at yer with a jaundiced eye.
    Use the soft sell.  8^)
    
    MikeL
     
    
8.1458Pondering the Posibilities...RUNAWY::CBULLS::MBROOKSThu Dec 05 1991 18:0817
    Luckily I dont scare easily, its funny I mentioned to one of my
    buddies that I was seriously considering this and he siad "what
    are you crazy"..."Ill go to your funeral".  But he also said Id
    proberbly be good at it......He knows I like to hit and get hit
    so its very tempting.  Im glad I have a few months to think it
    over and get into shape.  I recently joined "The Clue" fitness
    center in marlboro and go over every day for an hour at lunch.  
    I have to start spending some extra time on the tread mill....
    
    Ill let you know (saw) what I decide but will more than likely
    at least attend some practices/scrimmages to see what its all
    about.
    
    Just think I use to next/unseen this note and I could one day be
    entering and reading it like scripture....
    
    							MairBrooks
8.1459Reason #137 to prefer football ...EARRTH::BROOKSStardate 12.06.91 - BE THERE !Thu Dec 05 1991 18:102
    Rugby players also wear the tackiest uniforms this side of the 1960
    Denver Broncos ....
8.1460CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackThu Dec 05 1991 18:1335
>    Ill let you know (saw) what I decide but will more than likely
>    at least attend some practices/scrimmages to see what its all
>    about.
    

MAB,

That's the way I started.  I wondered what it was all about, so I went
to a practice.

My first practice I was a nervous wreck.  I knew a little bit about what
mauls were, and that was about it.

So I get to the practice, and we start a twenty minute jog.  Okay,
no problem.

Then we do some ball handling.  I didn't really know what I was doing,
but I tried really hard, and didn't seem to screw up too much.  And the
neatest thing was that all the guys were introducing themselves etc etc
and were really warm and welcoming.

After the ball handling, we ran INTERVALS.  When they read off what
we would do, I thought, "shit, if I can get through this alive...."

I did.  And the next day I wasn't too sore, so I went back to the next
practice...and the next...and the next.....

8^)


Good luck.


PS  Stick close to Mac if you go to Worcester.  Like Rachael said, he is
    a really good teacher....
8.1461IAMOK::WASKOMThu Dec 05 1991 19:104
    At least with a rugby kit, you know that what you're looking at is the
    player, and not stuffing  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1462Air RugbyEDUOZ::THURGARThu Dec 05 1991 19:5115
    M_A_B,
    
    Did you know that Michael Jordan was seriously considering playing
    rugby instead of basketball. He thought he would be great in the
    lineouts, also jumping to take the high kick. Said he wanted to play
    breakaway or fullback. In fact he said that if it wasnt for his current
    contract with the Bulls that he would play rugby (and golf). He is very
    upset that he missed his chance to play in the World Cup as he knows
    that the champions of that are truly international World Champions. Big
    problem was that no position on the rugby field wears a number 23.
    
    Madge
    
    
    PS. That should get him.
8.1463CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 05 1991 19:5713
    $100/season 'Saw?  Now that you guys own your own clubhouse and tavern,
    I hope they look into dropping your dues.  Especially since you guys
    cleared $25K at the US/Scotland game.  The Austin clubhouse bar was
    only open for practices and games.  Take over the bar ($0.50/can
    profit) helped keep our dues costs down to $50/season there.  The
    annual rugby tournament plus donations from some kind founding members
    helped us pay the mortgage on the clubhouse and grounds.
    
    re Acrylic:  I used to wear acrylic jerseys all the time until I went
    to Texas.  I got in the habit of wearing cotton down there and now I
    can't go back.  The acrylic jerseys are warmer, but they don't get as
    weighted down with water (rain, sweat) as much as the cotton due and
    they are virtually indestructible.
8.1464CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackFri Dec 06 1991 10:0236
re Madge and Michael Jordan:


	One of the favorite pastimes in the bar over a couple of cold
	ones after practice, is to come up with an all-star rugby side,
	composed of athletes from some of America's more popular sports.

	
	Jordan would be great as a second row (beef him up a tad) or
	a #8.

	Could you imagine LT crashing the line as an inside center, or
	better yet, as a flanker?

	

Totally off the subject:

	Madge, whatever happened to that guy Jacko?


Mac:


	Yes, they went up in the fall to $100.  I don't think they're
	going down either.  The did cut out the game fee, which I figured
	made the dues around $93 bucks per season, so I guess they rounded
	it up.

	I don't know how the bar is doing financially.

	$100 is awfully steep, but then I don't know how much of
	that is required to go to NERFU etc etc etc....


'Saw
8.1465BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 06 1991 11:4243
Oh my Gawd, $100 a season?

Our dues are $46 ($1 for a somewhat theoretical injury fund), $25 for students,
shorts cost the same as the others shorts, jerseys $32, socks the same, cleats
the same.  We have to bring food to our home games, so whatever that costs.
Granted, four home games in a season is a hell of a lot.

Then there's plane fair.  Average, $500 or so a season.  Hotels, about $10-15
a night, usually ~8 nights a season.  Rental cars, about $7 per day, 
same frequency as hotels.  Food on away weekends, usually $20-25. Parking
at the airport, $infinite.

Then there's Beantown arrogance wear.  National championship T-shirts $8-14.
National Championships warm-up jackets, $50.  Matching pants, $33.  National
champion kit bags, $35-45, depending on the size.  Recruitment T-shirts, $10.
(They say Beantown Rugby in large letters on the front, and "Play women's
rugby, inquire within" on the back)  I'm really surprised we've never made
underwear.  We sold Beantown tights at one point, our one sponser provided
those as a fundraiser.  The team has made about 30+ sets of T-shirts in it's
15 years of existance.

I told a friend of mine I didn't want to play club league hockey becasue it
cost too much, $200-300 a season, while rugby was only $46.  She righteously
pointed out my travel costs.  I guess I don't play league hockey because I
have no money left, as well as no time.

About the fraternity, nothing is truer.  I went to CXO once, made a few
phone calls, and practiced with the AFA right there in Colorado Springs.
I made a friend there I still keep in touch with.  I'm going to LA this
Xmas to see the rental units, and will also visit the Locks from Hell, who
will take me out the all the places my parents won't take me.  I don't
know them hardly at all, but they will take me out, I can stay at either
of their places, etc.  Anywhere you go, if you can dig up the numbers, you
can go practice with the local club.  Somebody from Georgia was up here
a few weeks ago, she practiced with us.  When I was a co-op in Santa Clara,
I practiced with the local club.  I don't travel non-rugby much, but when
I do, I will always look up the local club if it's during the season.

As for travel, I've seen fields, hotels, and airports in all of New England,
Pennsylvania, New York, Atlanta, Minneapolis, New Jersey, DC, Virginia, 
California, France, England, Wales, and, after this weekend, Louisiana.

Rachael
8.1466CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Dec 06 1991 11:5026
8.1467BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 06 1991 11:532
We can't secede.  It would really screw up the pairings for Nationals.
Somebody would have to have a bye.
8.1468CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Dec 06 1991 12:0012
8.1469Barbarians AnnouncedCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Dec 06 1991 17:1312
VNS UK SPORTS REPORT                             Ken Merrick, VNS Sports Desk
                                                 Valbonne, France

RUGBY UNION

    David Campese and Serge Blanco will play together for the first time when
    they line-up for the Barbarians in the traditional Christmas fixture against
    Leicester on December 27. THe Barbarians team is Blanco (Biarritz),
    Campese (Milano), Sella (Agen), Mesnel (Racing), Lafond (Racing), Stephens
    (Llanelli), Moon (Llanelli), Linnet (Moseley), Allan (Edinburgh
    Academicals), Burnell (London Scottish), Ackford (Harlequins), Bayfield
    (Northampton), Jeffrey (Kelso), Robinson (Bath), Lewis (Llanelli)
8.1470CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackFri Dec 06 1991 17:4328
>VNS UK SPORTS REPORT                             Ken Merrick, VNS Sports Desk
>                                                 Valbonne, France
>
>RUGBY UNION
>
>    David Campese and Serge Blanco will play together for the first time when
>    they line-up for the Barbarians in the traditional Christmas fixture against
>    Leicester on December 27. THe Barbarians team is Blanco (Biarritz),
>    Campese (Milano), Sella (Agen), Mesnel (Racing), Lafond (Racing), Stephens
>    (Llanelli), Moon (Llanelli), Linnet (Moseley), Allan (Edinburgh
>    Academicals), Burnell (London Scottish), Ackford (Harlequins), Bayfield
>    (Northampton), Jeffrey (Kelso), Robinson (Bath), Lewis (Llanelli)


Questions:

	Campese (Milano)...  Does that mean that he plays his club rugby
	for Milano, like Glen Judge plays his club rugby for Hartford?


	Secondly, by tradition, one of the Barbarians is always a player
	who has never been capped.  Which one in this list?


	Have any Americans ever made the Barbarians?????


'Saw
8.1471BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Dec 09 1991 12:3541
For the men's results, I'm not sure who won Division II.  I remember seeing
part of the game, I think Burlington was losing to a team in red jerseys and
black shorts.  Division I, Mystics beat Life in an extremely tough game, by
a margin of (I think) 10 points or so.  Very, very tough and hard fought.
The Mystics number 8 had a cut on his head and bled profusely throughout
the game, leaving huge blood stains on his lock and anyone who brushed his
head.  We all thought he should go out, he must have lost close to a pint
of blood.

We played Boston in the first match, and beat them about 44-0.  The game was
a lot more challenging then it sounds, they played hard throughout.  We 
scored some brilliant trys, with many, many hands touching the ball on the
way.  It was a tremendous game, they kind we want to play against Boston.
Sometimes we let down when we play them, and it all goes to slop, but not
this time.  It was so crisp.  One of their players was on the sidelines
complaining about the calls, the light (it was getting dark), etc, but then
she said to her teammate "not that it makes any difference, though".  I went
in for the last 10 minutes of so, which was fun.

Sunday we played Florida State.  I was selected and played the toughest
game of my life.  I haven't played 40's in about a year to begin with, and
this was the second team in the US.  We ended up beating them 22-4.  First,
after the game, a lot of us were disappointed that we didn't do better.  Our
coach wanted 30 points on them.  I was very upset, I've never been so tired
in my life and made a lot of errors I don't usually make as a result.  But,
then I thought about it, this was FSU we were playing, and I was used to 
playing teams that we beat by at least 40 points.  22 points is the most
anybody on our team could remember ever scoring on them.  It's quite a different
game when you're truly challenged.  I want to play more of them, but probably
won't get the chance.  They have a center who's probably the quickest player
in the US, as well as the back row from the World Cup squad.

I want to write more on the game later, it was absolutely mind blowing.  But,
I have to get some work done sometime today, and my fingers are kind of
hurting anyways.  I don't think there's a part of me that didn't take hard
impact yesterday (except my head, which is nice), and I am so sore I can 
barely move.  Anytime I drop anything on the floor, it's a major disaster.

Big, big difference playing FSU...

Rachael
8.1472CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 09 1991 13:552
    Congratulations Rachael, both for the selection to play in the finals
    and for the win.  
8.1473News from South AfricaCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 09 1991 13:5710
VNS UK SPORTS REPORT                             Ken Merrick, VNS Sports Desk
							Valbonne, France

::: RUGBY UNION

    The South African Rugby Board and the South African Rugby Union have
    announced that they will merge, with the new ruling authority, South
    African Rugby Union, starting in March. This will clear the way for South
    Africa's application to host the 1995 World Cup and commence tours against
    other IRB nations.
8.1474CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackMon Dec 09 1991 16:1020
>For the men's results, I'm not sure who won Division II.  I remember seeing
>part of the game, I think Burlington was losing to a team in red jerseys and
>black shorts.  Division I, Mystics beat Life in an extremely tough game, by
>a margin of (I think) 10 points or so.  Very, very tough and hard fought.
>The Mystics number 8 had a cut on his head and bled profusely throughout
>the game, leaving huge blood stains on his lock and anyone who brushed his
>head.  We all thought he should go out, he must have lost close to a pint
>of blood.


So Mystic is in the Final Four?


Also, I'd give my eye-teeth to know if Tom Vinick was playing for Life...


Congrats Rachael!  Good stuff....


'Saw
8.1475BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Dec 09 1991 16:1813
8.1476either that or byob (bring your own bandages!)CST17::FARLEYMcDroodburgers - toss em up or down!Mon Dec 09 1991 16:248
    M.A.B;
    
    read very carefully Rach's description of Mystic's #8 "boo boo"!
    
    hth,
    
    Kev
    
8.1477Kev...don't be a weenie....CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackMon Dec 09 1991 16:289
Well, well, congrats to Mystic.  They spanked us good.  Mabye we'll be
able to say we lost to the National Champs....


Rachael, my subscription might have lapsed by a month, but I'll be looking
once it starts again....


'Saw
8.1478CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 09 1991 16:452
    I still have a subsrcription to "Rugby", Rachael.  If I remember I'll
    make a copy of the ad and mail it to you.
8.1479CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackMon Dec 09 1991 18:3131
Had my toughest workout yet on Friday night.

Mike (the trainer) wasn't there, because he was going to a concert,
and Pete and Paul (my two new friends) werent' there.  The only
folks in the free weight section were a father and son who really
didn't know what they were doing.

So, the 'Saw went through his workout all by himself.  It is TOUGH
when no one is there to push you through peer pressure.  I just did
the reps, and sweated, while Father and Son ripped the sh_t outta there
muscles by trying to cram a week's worth of workouts in one night.


Sunday, ran in a road race.  It's the Annual Santa's Road Race in 
Glastonbury.  It's only 3.5, but it's tough because the last half mile
is uphill.  My buddy Chris, the marathoner, ran it with me, and he actually
ran at my snail's pace.

Thank God he did run with me because he got me through the last half mile.
I'll take the Manchester Race (longer) any day, over that last half mile
of the Santa's run.

So, got on the scale this morning, and I'm hovering around 225....


Our AGM for HWRFC is January 9th, so I'm trying hard to get into great
shape by then.  That's about 1 month before practice starts again (shudder
shudder)....


'Saw
8.1480BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 10 1991 10:5640
Maybe I'll break down and subscribe to rugby again for a little while, if
one of you guys could give me the info...

More on the FSU game.

At first I couldn't remember why I'm so sore.  Then, the memories started
flooding back.  Catching their ball in the back of the lineout (way back
and alone) turning to set on them, getting pounded, both teams coming
in to ruck over me.  Going for their center and just getting jersey, so
pulling her down with that, going thump-thump-thump along the ground with
her.  Pulling people down on top of me because that was the only way to 
get them down.  Getting pounded every time I had the ball.  I'm so used to
being able to set cleanly, but FSU is a different story.  I think we regained
possesion of most of the ball I set, but it sure was a hell of a lot more 
punishing.  Got hit on back row plays, hit in loose play, they were just
so much better than any of our opposition regularly is.  

The more I look back on the game, the happier I am about it.  I've wanted to
play FSU for a long time, to know what it feels like to be in a tough
game, and now I certainly know.  My everyday chances of playing them
are fairly slim, my selection on Sunday involved a lot of chance happenings,
but I am so excited that I at least got my one chance.  It really gives me
something to work for over the winter.  ie more speed and more strength.
I want to run today but I can still barely move, so I think I'm still on
vacation.

As for that guy on Mystics, well, I really wouldn't let that scare off the
average rookie.  This guy was the #8 to begin with, which probably means
he's the leader of the forwards if not the whole team.  Also means he had
to be damn good and that means experienced.  Further, they were playing
for a spot in Nationals.  Only the top team from each Territory goes to
Nationals for the men.  The chances of them having a player to replace him
who was of the same caliber are marginal.  So, yes, he stayed in the game
bleeding all over.  But that's about 10 years off being an issue for
your average rookie, and that's only assuming they join the team which
goes to the championships.  
	I think if you take a close look at the NFL and what injuries they
play on, you'll understand.

Rachael
8.1481I guess it has to do with what WASN'T reported....CST17::FARLEYMcDroodburgers - toss em up or down!Tue Dec 10 1991 11:0411
    So Rach,
    
    What you're saying is that one of the most(ed) experienced guys on the
    team got mauled, mangled and damaged - right?
    
    M.A.B., take note and wonder what could happen to the neophite!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev_retired_EMT
    
8.1482"Rugby" subscription infoCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 10 1991 11:1413
8.1484IAMOK::WASKOMTue Dec 10 1991 12:009
    Rachael -
    
    Congrats on the game and the win.  Sounds like you did a really good
    job.
    
    Question [reasons probably obvious :-) ]  Any idea who won the
    collegiate divisions?
    
    A&W
8.1485BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 10 1991 13:3521
In the collegiate mens, all I know is that Harvard lost their first match.
I think it was BC and U.Conn in the finals for the women (not sure about BC
but I can't imagine they didn't make the finals) and if I had to guess
I'd say BC should have beaten U.Conn.

Alison, if you write some team names down for me, it might jog my memory
(the only part of me which will jog today...) or I can call one of my
teammates and ask them.

John Logan (sp?) was at the tourney rooting for all the New England teams.
In that spirit, when we arrived back at the hotel on Saturday, a bunch
of guys from the Burlington team stood outside and clapped us in.  I thought
I had written that but I can't find it, forgive me if I repeat myself.  It
was one of the nicest things, I'll honestly never forget that feeling of
returning home to cheering fans.  Mac, when you play them next, let them
know they are appreciated.  We stayed for a while to watch their game
and cheer them on before moving over the men's Division I finals, which
is where our stronger affiliation is (with Mystics, one husband, one
fiance, various friends, and our coach)

Rachael
8.1486CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 10 1991 13:435
    Alison is looking for Army results, I'm sure.  Army won the Northeast
    Regionals over Brown.
    
    I didn't realize there was a playoff system for the college women's
    teams.
8.1487CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackTue Dec 10 1991 13:4727
What Rach was saying about the #8 is that when you're in that situation,
there is NO tomorrow.  You play.  It's like a World Series 7th game
where you get your starting pitchers in as relievers.

Obviously in rugby you can get cut.  Head cuts bleed a lot (or appear to)
and are more often worse looking than they truly are.

Front row players tend to get cut on the eyebrows, but like most cuts
a little tape and you're all set.


Rachael is also right in that your #8 HAS to be a STUD (in men's rugby).
He, along with the two flankers, are always supposed to be on the ball.
When your flankers and #8 are firing on all cylinders, and your tight
five is winning scrum ball, chances are you'll win the game.


I think it's great that Mystics is in the Final Four.  I'm pulling for
them to win the Nationals....


'Saw


PS  Hawk, Madge is not that far off on his Jordan thing.  If the best
    athletes in the US were playing rugby, I seriously doubt that anyone
    would not rate us in the Top 7 or 8 in the world....
8.1489~/~CST17::FARLEYSki Drood(tm) Valley-Great Moguls!Tue Dec 10 1991 14:068
    "...chances are you'll win the game." (or bleed to death) ;^)
    
    Whatever comes first.......
    
    (giggle, this is fun!)
    
    Kev
    
8.1490CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 10 1991 14:0713
8.1491Mac, why don't you go back to movin notes? party-pooper!CST17::FARLEYSki Drood(tm) Valley-Great Moguls!Tue Dec 10 1991 14:131
    
8.1492IAMOK::WASKOMTue Dec 10 1991 14:2313
    Rachel -
    
    Mac's right, I am specifically interested in Army's results.  I'm
    dating a former coach of theirs :-) and he wanted to know.  He sez that
    Navy was also down there, and was wondering how Harvard got there,
    having read the Harvard/Brown result (the Providence paper gives Brown
    rugby results).  At least I've gotten the answer to one of his
    questions already, without having to ask :-)
    
    
    And I've got to say, I'm also rooting for Mystics in the Nationals.  
    
    A&W
8.1493CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 10 1991 14:289
8.1494CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackTue Dec 10 1991 14:3819
Jordan might not make a bad rugger.  What is he, 6'9"?
I wouldn't mind having Barkley on the pitch either.


The worst part about knowing that Mystics is in the final is having to
wait a few months to find out how they do....

UCONN is NOT a bad rugby club.  Their coach is an English guy who has
a lot on the ball.  I've talked with him, as he has the kids come to 
a lot of our matches.  I guess he feels that a strong bond with a club
in the area is good.  I know I do.  Also, it helps if you don't have 
enough to fill out the C side, because you can tap the college ranks
if need be.


Also, one of our guys coaches the UCONN women's team....


'Saw
8.1495CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 10 1991 14:425
8.1497HPSRAD::RIEURead his Lips...Know new taxesTue Dec 10 1991 15:022
       Army sips!!
                                       Denny (ex-sailor)
8.1498they bleed in (U.S.) footaball too!CST17::FARLEYSki Drood(tm) Valley-Great Moguls!Tue Dec 10 1991 15:199
    anybody else get a chance to watch the Army-Navy (US) footaball
    game on saturday????
    
    A&W - why doncha ask yer main squeeze to tell ya 'bout it!
    
    hehehe
    
    Kev
    
8.1499BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 10 1991 15:3431
'Saw,
	Does one of your players help coach the women's team, or is he
THE coach?  Their coach has a terrible reputation for being an asshole,
to be perectly blunt about it.  U.Conn women are known for being dirty 
players.  We played them in 10's this summer, and when they were tackled
they would thrash about on the ground wildly hitting with their elbows.
Their coach was thrown out of the game, he was such a jerk.  Granted,
we were scoring every time we had possesion and beat them about 40-0
without trying in 20 min of play, but it's not just us.  We didn't really
think too much of it, but we figure it's their problem.  The other colleges 
don't want to play them, though, and have complained to the union.  They wanted
us to sign a letter to the union, but we decided to stay out as it's really
not any of our business.  It's the business of the colleges and we didn't
want to throw our strength as a club behind it as we are generally  not 
involved in their games, only in coaching.
	This weekend I was watching their first game with, shall we say, an
important union official who was checking out the complaints.  He did
not see any dirty play, but noted that they were dominating the game.
He did note some poor behavior on the coaches' part, coaching on the
field (as opposed to in touch) (way on the field), giving the girls
water when there was no water break, etc.  On Sunday it was hot enough
so the ref allowed us to go to the sides for water when there was a 
minute, but it was not that hot on Saturday.  He (union) expects the situation
will police itself, ie if nobody will play them then they will probably
smarten up, but is keeping an eye on it just the same.

Alison,
	I think Army made the finals but I'm not sure how they did.  We
saw them in the airport and they looked pretty happy, though.

Rachael
8.1500CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackTue Dec 10 1991 16:1214
>'Saw,
>	Does one of your players help coach the women's team, or is he
>THE coach?  

If the guy I'm thinking of IS their coach, your observations wouldn't be
far off.  He can be terribly obnoxious, but I put it down to being
young.  It took me a long time before I could get to engage in a conversation
he was in without him making some snide remark.  I finally had to do
to him what he does to other folks -- treat him like shit...

If the individual has a rather large butt for a fullback, it's one
and the same.

'Saw
8.1501IAMOK::WASKOMTue Dec 10 1991 18:4510
    re the Army/Navy football game.....I watched some of it, between phone
    calls from friends (my intentions were good).  My main squeeze was
    there  :-}  with friends and family.  (Among other things, he's an
    Academy grad and still on active duty, the team is a big deal to him.) 
    We have discussed the problems with the Army football team at some
    length.  :-)  
    
    Rachael, thanks for the report.  I'll pass it on.
    
    A&W
8.1502Influence peddling - send me $$$!CST17::FARLEYSki Drood(tm) Valley-Great Moguls!Tue Dec 10 1991 18:5412
    Ok. lessee, a_academy_grad and still on active duty.  That makes him
    somewhere around 28-29 years old right?  A&W you ol' cradle wobber
    you......
    
    btw, I have a cuzin who was a 'point grad ~71 and is a Lt.
    Col/battallion commander.  If yo main squeeze would like a_inside
    track or sumfin, lemme know.  I may be short but I can be bought!
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1503Meaningless (to me), but still fun to watchGUSHER::WAUGAMANTue Dec 10 1991 18:598
    
    The result of the Army-Navy game was vivid proof of the adage that
    you can throw the records out when it comes to that game.  Navy
    was just about the putridest team in all of Division 1-A this year,
    yet they handled a heavily favored Army team pretty easily...
                                                 
    glenn
    
8.1504IAMOK::WASKOMTue Dec 10 1991 19:087
    Uh, Kev - he's 10 years older than I am, and I'm one of the "old farts"
    in this conference  :-)  Any influence peddling would probably run in
    the other direction, as he out-ranks your relative.
    
    Small bills will do nicely.
    
    A&W
8.1505HPSRAD::RIEURead his Lips...Know new taxesWed Dec 11 1991 09:523
       A&W's right Kev, the guys obviously a career main (lifer). Those
    guys cain hang around for 20 or 30 years!
                                             Denny  ;^)
8.1506CAMONE::WAYSay no to Baby Butt CrackWed Dec 11 1991 10:1510
Well, believe it or not, there was a time in my life when I would
have given my left you-know-what to be a Naval Officer.  My dad was
Navy, and I've always rooted for Navy in the big game.


I won't be tellin' tales out of school if I tell you that Alison's
"Dude" is quite good lookin' also....


'Saw
8.1507BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Dec 11 1991 10:285
Alison, you'd better watch it, 'Saw said...

Oh yeah, he plays MENS rugby.  It's probably OK.

Rachael
8.1508CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 11 1991 10:306
>Alison, you'd better watch it, 'Saw said...
>Oh yeah, he plays MENS rugby.  It's probably OK.

Rach,

You slay me, kiddo, you really do...8^)
8.1509HPSRAD::RIEURead his Lips...Know new taxesWed Dec 11 1991 10:382
       Gee, and I always thought 'Saw aspired to be a Gyreen!!
                                   Denny ;^o
8.1510CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 11 1991 10:4421
>       Gee, and I always thought 'Saw aspired to be a Gyreen!!


Denny, you hit the nail sort of on the head.  My uncle was a Fightin
Leatherneck in the Big One Double-You Double_You Eye Eye, in the Pacific.

Till he quit smokin a few years back, he was a cigar chompin, whiskey
drinkin man's man, but now he just has the occasional highball.  (Guess
living longer is better than chompin cigars).


But for me there was always something about the ocean...  I would have
loved subs like my dad too....


If I'd have gone into the Marines, I'd have had to choose between
being a_officer, or gettin' to be a DI.....8^)  (Maggot is such a great
word, ain't it....)


'Saw
8.1511BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 13 1991 10:4935
OK, we got our stats last night at our AGM.   Here's our record:

Our A-side went 14-0.  Our B-side went 8-1, only loss being against a
fresh Hartford A-side by one point.

Our A-side outscored our opponents 512-25, the B-side was 177-22.
The A-side had 107 tries, 33 conversions, and 6 penalties.  The B-side
went 37, 13, and 1.

For me personally, I played 12 games, 4 A, 8 B.  Scored one A-side try
and 3 B-side tries, 8 games at #6, 3 games at #8, and 1 each at #9 and
#7.  (I know that doesn't add up, the game at #7 I was a replacement,
I also had another game at #7 as a replacement which didn't get noted.)

Pretty good season.  Too bad I'm so depressed.  I also found out last night
that Nationals are being held the weekend of my brother's wedding.  I 
would almost definitely play Saturday at Nationals if I was there.  As it
is, I might not even make the roster if I'm just there Sunday, and probably 
(we're talking act of God here) won't play.  Further, chances are good
it will impact my whole season, as every game we play is in preparation
for Nationals, and if I'm known to not be there...  

I have two choices as I see it so far.  One is to just go for it, try to
do my best at flanker and hope to have a spot saved for me on the roster 
(we will definitely have more qualified people then spots, and if I'm going
to miss two games out of three...).  The other is to be resigned about it,
maybe try for B-side captain, maybe learn to play scrumhalf this season,
and try to find more meaning out of life than just playing at Nationals.
At least I got to play last year, and will in all likelihood get to play
other years.  Cyndy pointed out I'm lucky I'm on a team that goes every
year.

We'll see.

Rachael
8.1512He should've known betterCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Dec 13 1991 11:062
    Rachael, you left out option 3 - have your brother reschedule his
    wedding.  At least the invitations haven't been sent out yet. ;^)
8.1513BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 13 1991 11:2210
I asked him that last night.  

At least he understands if I leave halfway through the party to get to 
the airport. I think he'd even understand if I didn't go at all, but
he'd be hurt.  But don't think I didn't consider it.  I've never been
one for the formalities of life to begin with, I know I love my brother
so actually being there is kind of irrelevent to me.  But I think it will
mean something to him, so I'll go.

Sad, sad Rachael.
8.1514Just kidding of course...CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 13 1991 11:2810
Rach,

Would you like me and Mac to go "persuade" your brother to change
the date?


let us know 8^)


'Saw
8.1515Hows this for a plan???????CST17::FARLEYfeed your Xmas Drood(tm) BethleHAM and CheeseFri Dec 13 1991 12:0216
    Rach,
    
    If your real worry is getting to the airport on time, I could "arrange"
    for fellow oh about 27 years old to arrive at the church with two
    siblings in tow and have one of the curtain crawlers cry out "MOMMY,
    MOMMY"......
    
    I figure that should speed up the ceremony considerably and assure you
    of making the flight.
    
    My rate chart will be sent to your office at no charge!
    
    ;*)
    
    Kev_the_Un_Matchmaker_in_Waiting
    
8.1516BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 13 1991 14:358
You guys are great.  You've got me to smile over this, no easy task.


So, back to winter training.  Running starts again next week.  I'm looking
forward to it, I enjoy running in the winter.  Adds special excitement when
it's that cold.

Rachael
8.1517TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHDr. Seuss - RIPFri Dec 13 1991 18:0910
Rachael

You can start trainign now for nexted year's Corp. Track meet.

'Saw and Mac

Before you go to "talk to" Rachael's brother, how do you know he isn't a prop 
hisself!!1111

=Bob=
8.1518CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Dec 13 1991 18:119
8.1519Hoe Hoe HoeEDUOZ::THURGARSun Dec 15 1991 18:3726
    Just got back from a week away and couldn't stop laughing about some of
    the notes.
    
    Congrats Rachael and sorry about your brothers untimely accident, what
    with his wedding coming up and all. Never ever heard of anybody getting
    stampeded by wild prop forwards before. He can reschedule his wedding
    for the summer (yours not mine). If you were here you could play and 
    go to the wedding (with the time differences).
    
    Did somebody say they want to party with me. When, where, what time.
    
    Michael Jordan as fullback. Karl Malone as a second rower. Charles
    Barkley as a breakaway.
    
    'Saw: Jacko - Wacko Jacko (ace weirdo). Failed Aussie rules footballer,
    wrestler, comedian. Does battery commercials. Very big boy. Basic drop
    kick in life. Without sport he would be working on the roads etc.
    
    Train hard in the off season. I hope it is cold. Summer here 85-90 F.
    Best thing about Xmas is having a freezing cold beer on Xmas day. Great
    time to party. Warm weather, cold beer and willing ........
    
    Bye for now
    
    
    Madge
8.1520CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 16 1991 10:0819
Mac ---

Train, train, train!

Go into da gym und feel how good it feels when you ah pumped up....


Seriously, you ought to get into the gym.  I don't know about you, but
I found out when thing when I went into the gym.  When the day comes
that I either can't, or don't feel like lacing up my boots anymore, I'll
still be going to the gym....


Madge --

Don't tell anyone, but I enjoy icy cold beer on Christmas....8^)


'Saw
8.1521CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 16 1991 10:108
Saw Tom Vinick over the weekend.

He played with Life against Mystic River, and said that Mystic dominated
the game.  The final score was 20-0....  He said that Mystic looked
VERY good....


'Saw
8.1522NERFU AGM HighlightsCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 16 1991 12:0972
    The NERFU AGM was a marathon session.  The meeting was so long (how
    long was it?) that quite a few folks left after the first break, we had
    to move to another conference room to make way for another function,
    they had to search the bylaws when it was discovered there weren't
    enough representatives from appropriate areas left to nominate area
    directors.  The meeting lasted over 6 hours.
    
    Some highlights:  bylaws were changed to reflect the way the board has
    actually been operating over the past 5 years or so.  Term limitations
    for board members were removed.  An additional position on the board
    was opened up, Collegiate Director at Large, which is to be filled by
    an undergraduate college student.  The Union has decided to petition
    USARFU to secede from USARE and become their own territory.  The Union
    has the backing from USARE (the USARE president was at the AGM).  By a
    narrow margin, the purchase of club liabilty insurance in compliance
    with the USARFU policy was made mandatory for all clubs in New England. 
    Application and payment for the insurance policy must be submitted to
    the Union treasurer along with Union dues.  The Union has called for a
    special meeting to be held in 1992 to discuss the impact of the
    Individual Payment Program whereby individuals will pay dues rather
    than the club.
    
    There were a few changes to the NERFU board of directors.  A woman from
    Boston Women's RFC is the new treasurer.  The position of College
    Director is unfilled.  John Logan will assume the duties of USARE
    Director in addition to his role as NERFU president.  "Doc" Lawrence,
    long time board member, will be absent from the board this year.  He
    did not win his bid to remain USARE Director, and refused the
    nomination for Collegiate Director.  The New Hampshire Director is a
    member of Amoskeag RFC.  Glen Lawson of Berkshire RFC is now the
    Director at Large (he lost his bid to retain Western Mass. Director). 
    Keith MacNeal of the Worcester RFC is the new Western Mass. Director. 
    A student from UMass Amherst was elected to the new position of
    Collegiate Director at Large.
    
    There is some controversy brewing already around the league structure. 
    Up until a few years ago, a challenge could be issued by the to top
    club in Division II to the bottom club in Division I.  A match would be
    played in the spring with the winner going to Division I and the loser
    going to Div. II.  If the top team from Div. II did not wish to
    challenge, the right to challenge was given to the rest of the Div. II
    clubs in their order of finish.  The Div. II challenger never won a
    challenge match.  In order to promote movement between the divisions,
    the NERFU board decided to make the movement automatic and cancelled
    the challenge.  However, they forgot to rewrite the bylaws which
    allowed lower finishing teams to move up a division if the teams ahead
    of them declined to move.  This year, Burlington and Worcester won the
    division and both declined to move to Div. I.  Old Gold, who finished
    third outright due to a 5-2 record (losses to Portland and Worcester),
    elected to excercise the option and will move up to Div. I.  Because of
    this, Amoskeag was forced to move back to Div. II.  When Worcester won
    Div. II in 1987, they declined to move to Div. I.  Amoskeag, who
    finished 2nd that year, was never given the option to move up due to an
    oversight by the NERFU board.  Needless to say, Amoskeag is not very
    happy.  The board has corrected the league rules by allowing only the
    first place team the option to advance, however they felt that since
    this correction was instituted after the league season had been played,
    they would have to abide by the rules that were in place before the
    change.
    
    This whole thing may become moot as both Div. I and Div. II may have to
    be restructured.  Division II has 9 teams at the current time.  An
    informal affiliate member championship was crowned this year
    (Berkshire) and this might spark the restoration of Div. III.  The
    Albany Knicks and the Schnectady Reds have made inquiries about joining
    NERFU.
    
    I finally found out who won the USARE Div. II title.  Burlington made
    it to the finals by crushing the Connecticut Yankees 44-0.  They then
    lost in the finals in a close match to Battleship RFC from Mobile, AL.
    
    UCONN Women won the USARE Women's collegiate title.
8.1523RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOAbove the FrayMon Dec 16 1991 12:2421
    Well, I opeened my firsted Christmas presents over the weekend - my
    folks sent 'em out, and being that we are leaving in a few days,
    decided to open them.  Well, guess what, my folks got me a RUGBY shirt.
    
    I had it on Saturday as the wife and I went shopping.   I started
    having uncontrollable urges to tape my ears.  My butt started sticking
    out, and waitresses were running after me with stacks of plates.  Near
    Kiddy-Land, someone dropped a fat spheroid-type thing, I yelled "SCRUM
    MY BOYS, SCRUM LADS" and went too it.  Twas ugly.  After that, I
    started drinking bears and signing roady songs.   
    
    What a shirt.  You know, I was thinking that malls signify mankind's
    quest to understand the intricacies of a Rugby match.  Scrum and props
    and wings and baggy shorts.  The malls are filled with propbutts and
    scrumhaids and  wings - a smorgasboard of ruggers.  Big, tall, small,
    squat, male, female, young and old.....
    
    
    Ahh, Rugby, what a life!
    
    JD
8.1524CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 16 1991 12:3513
JD, my boy, you have seen the light!!!!!

Did you FEEL the bloodlust?  Did you feel the naked, raw, urge to hit
another human being so hard he poops in his pants?

What color is the shirt?  (That's important for ruggers...)


Great stuff JD...  Watch that butt though, if it gets big enough, they'll
wanna put you in the front row...


'Saw
8.1525CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 16 1991 12:3821
Mac --

I think that SUCKS about Amoskeag having to drop.

I think the Amoskeag drinkup was the one I enjoyed MOST this year, because
I got to know some of their team (including Frank, their tremendously
blond, fair skinned flyhalf...)

Anyway, they seemed to be a very serious bunch of ruggers, bent on
improving their game and really competing in Division I.  They had some
monster locks on their A side (who gave our C's a hard time scrumming
and lining out for their second game of the day)....


I contrast that with Old Gold, who've never done jack in Division I.


I'm really disappointed, as I feel Amoskeag were worthy opponents.
Not Old Gold....

'Saw
8.1527Almost got some more title meat, Bob H.CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 16 1991 13:132
    According to a T-shirt I saw on Saturday, Charlotte was represented in
    the Men's Div. I final four in USARE.
8.1528CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 16 1991 13:179
    I learned a few things about the finances of NERFU and USARE.  NERFU
    decided to not fund select side play this year.  It may be no
    coincidence that the only select side match NERFU has played was
    against Bermuda last spring.  NERFU was scurrying to find players for
    that match (gee, wish they had called me).  There have been no efforts
    to put a select side team together as of yet.
    
    USARE on the other hand approved a budget in which almost 60% of the
    spending by the territory will be on select side play.
8.1529CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 16 1991 13:2212
Hawk --

I cannot remember seeing vertical stripe jersies.

There's versions of horizontal stripes (hoops, pinstripes, one color band
etc) and then there's the Harlequin pattern (four squares)....


Hope this helps....


'Saw
8.1530CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Dec 16 1991 13:266
8.1531CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 16 1991 13:3822
>    
>    You obviously haven't received your copy of Matt Godek's catalog yet.
>    

Got me there, Mac_attack....  I haven't received a new catalog from them
in a while.

I've got to buy boots before the spring, so I'll ask them to send some
extras....

>    Worcester State College sported a vertically striped jersey for awhile. 
>    Blue & gold 1" verticle stripes.

Oh....


I like our hoops much better than our solid greens, and I wish the A
side wore the hoops more often....


'Saw

8.1533CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 09:1914
Wow!

I got the Godek's catalog in the mail yesterday.  Boy, do I like their
new layout.  I also like the School House jersey...


What I'm not so thrilled about is that Adidas decided to "improve"
the Flanker.  What that means is that they changed the color along the
top of the boot to blue, and they're now charging $109 for it....

Oh well.....


'Saw
8.1534CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 09:3127
There's just you, and the bar, and some iron plates.

That's all that exists in the world.  There is no pain, there is
no anguish, there is no pleasure.  Just you, and the bar, and
some iron plates.

You focus your entire being on the bar.  Somewhere, deep in the
recesses of your mind, a belt is cinched a little tighter, the
higher, more civilized part of your being prepares to open the
cage, just a little, to let some of the animal in you out.

You place your hands on the bar, feeling the cold, hard reality
of it all.  Here there are no judgements, no failings, no losses.
Here there are no regrets.  There's just you and the weight.
An absolute.  You and the weight.

You begin to lift, body working, mind focused, your heart seeking
what you truly desire.  

Soon, it comes.  It is there like an old friend.   The pain.


The pain washes you clean, the more you lift.  You push, and 
struggle, but in your little absolute world, just you and the bar,
there is no failing, only chances to try again.

The pain numbs you, and at the same time makes you whole again....
8.1535BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 17 1991 10:3223
Nice writing 'Saw.

You guys crack me up.  Especially the phonetic NERFU.

Mac, I've played for New England Select side.  No big thrill.  I'm beginning
to think playing for ERU would even be no big thrill.  Unless you're a 
serious contender for the Eagles, it kind of seems like another place to
go spend money.  I'd rather play with my own team then with New England
fer shur, as the cremdelacrem are not well coordinated and don't tend
to play to their promise.  First time I played select side I was very
disappointed.  However, it is good for your ego, and it's fun to hang with
the other teams' players and be on the same team with them.

Madge, it's good to hear from you again.  I happen to be wearing the old
World Champions jersey today.  I saw some for sale here (in Baton Rogue)
which were supposed to be authentic.  They were Canterbury's, but a poor
shadow of the one you sent me.  

They've had them vertical stripes at K-Mart for a while.  The Washington
Furies wear a dark jersey with a corner to corner sash-like band on the
front.   My least favorite jersey.  What's a school-house jersey look like?

Rachael
8.1536CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 10:3818
>They've had them vertical stripes at K-Mart for a while.  The Washington
>Furies wear a dark jersey with a corner to corner sash-like band on the
>front.   My least favorite jersey.  What's a school-house jersey look like?

Black and white 1" hoops, with a Skull and Crossbones patch.

Evidently School House was the first house at Rugby School to play together,
and the first to wear uniforms...

I'm definitely getting one...it looks bitchin'.....


'Saw


PS  Thanks for the compliment.  I realized last night that no matter
    how much life sucks, when it's just you and the bar and nothing
    else, life means so much more....
8.1537Uh Hummm, and all that shrink stuffCST17::FARLEYfeed your Xmas Drood(tm) BethleHAM and CheeseTue Dec 17 1991 11:188
    re: "now much life sucks."
    
    'Saw,
    To help ya put thangs in perspective, do what I do.  When it really
    gets bad, I ask myself - "Considering the alternative, is it THAT bad?"
    
    Father_Kev
    
8.1538CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 11:4710
>    To help ya put thangs in perspective, do what I do.  When it really
>    gets bad, I ask myself - "Considering the alternative, is it THAT bad?"
    


There's just me, and the bar, and some iron plates....


;^)    

8.1539They use lead forks there???RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOPlato,Homer,Voltaire,BKnightTue Dec 17 1991 12:146
    Jeepers Saw - what kinda bar do you go to!! IRON PLATES!! Yowza  - what
    the heck do they make the mugs outta - titanium or something!  Wow. 
    Iron plates.  Wadda they serve on them iron plates at this bar you
    talking about????  Steelhaid fish?  
    
    JD
8.1540CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 12:2015
>    Jeepers Saw - what kinda bar do you go to!! IRON PLATES!! Yowza  - what
>    the heck do they make the mugs outta - titanium or something!  Wow. 
>    Iron plates.  Wadda they serve on them iron plates at this bar you
>    talking about????  Steelhaid fish?  


Yep.  With neutronium sauce.....



If you wanna run cool you got to run with very heavy fuel.....



'Saw
8.1541CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 17 1991 14:279
8.1542CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 14:4013
>    
>    Supposedly it's made of better quality leather, provides more support,
>    etc., etc.  Personally I passed on them and bought one of Godek's last
>    remaining pairs of Flanker I's in my size.  I saw an ad in the most
>    recent issue of "Rugby" where one of the supply houses is offering the
>    Flanker II at Flanker I prices.


If it lasts more than two seasons, and that box in the toe last more
than one half, then I might buy em..... 8^)


'Saw
8.1543BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Dec 17 1991 17:297
	I don't know why you people in tight five insist on stepping on each
other's feet, especially with those hard-toed boots.

	Us back row players tend to aim for much softer body parts, like
arms, legs, and faces.  It's better for your cleats.

Rachael
8.1544CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 17 1991 17:345
8.1545~/~CST17::FARLEYfeed your Xmas Drood(tm) BethleHAM and CheeseTue Dec 17 1991 17:3710
    Oh M.A.B.........
    
    Didja happen to see Rach's last entry??????
    
    M.A.B :== MAULED AND BRUISED
    
    hth,
    
    Kev
    
8.1546wCAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomTue Dec 17 1991 18:0226
This is for Rachael....  It will make your day kiddo....


I'm in the gym last Friday night, and Cahal was there, telling me
that one of our flankers is soon departing for Atlanta.  So,
we're bantering back and forth, and I said

	"hey, flankers are a dime a dozen.  Now a good prop,
	that's a commodity that's hard to find"

Cahal shoots back:

	"Yeah, that's why we don't have any on the Wanderers!"


Boy did I walk into that.



In lineouts I worry more about the elbow to the top of the haid.
But that's only because I play next to Chuck "The Texas Elbow" Curtis,
who's elbows are more dangerous than a chainsaw.....



'Sa
8.1547BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Dec 18 1991 13:4314
That was a nice setup, 'Saw.  Poor prop.  You'd better watch it, if you keep
working out like you are you're going to find yourself not selected for the
C games and you're going to have to get tense like me and Mac.

I used to play #1 in lineouts, for 4 years.  Now that I'm playing club,
however, I tend to just bounce off the other #1 if I try to occupy the
tunnel for a throw to 1.  Boink!!
	
Mac, it's about time to start planning our rugby players and adoring fans
dinner.  'Saw and I think it should be at your house, so we can see the 
baby.  Can I bring my dog?  We'll have to pick a date soon so Madge can
buy his plane tickets.

Rachael
8.1548CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Dec 18 1991 13:473
8.1550CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 18 1991 14:0025
>    Waitaminute!  "...so Madge can buy his plane ticket."?
>    				       ^^^
>    
>    I thought all along that Madge was a `she', not a `he'...
>    
>    So, Madge, what are ya?  :-)
>    
>    Hawk.


Madge is indeed a he.  In fact, I know Madge's REAL first name, since
Madge is only a nickname, but since we're "mates" I wouldn't want
to divulge it unless he decides to....


I'm available just about any time....


As to moving up to Bs from C, I think I have a way to go.  The fitness
aspect is still suspect, and my technique still needs work I think.
I'd like to find a real good prop coach...  Doc Lyons gives me really
good tips, but then he's got to worry about what he's doing also...


'Saw
8.1553CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 18 1991 14:5019
Hawk,

I've heard WONDERFUL tales about you and the Palmolive Dish Detergent lad.
Something about lederhosen, and soaking in it right now.....
    
8^)


Madge was boasting to me the other day about the beautiful Australian
summer weather they will have for Christmas, with warm temps and
sunny skies, and that he'd have a frosty cold one on Christmas Day.

He made me promise him that I would have a frostly cold beer at
precisely 10am on Christmas morning.  I will, too, since it will
be after NOON somewhere in the world at the time.  I have a 6pack
of Foster in the fridge right now, earmarked for Christmas....


'Saw
8.1555put it towards a new car......CST17::FARLEYI gots a foamy Burma-Drood(tm)Wed Dec 18 1991 15:2313
    'saw,
    
    Remember that little noters get together a few weeks ago?  Or
    was it the DCU metting????  I don't remember exactly which one it was
    but you told me what Madge's real name is too!  So, ol pal Hawk,
    if 'sawmain insists on charging ya for that info-jem, I just wanna
    let ya know that I'll tell ya what he was gonna tell ya for dollar
    less!
    
    helping_you_save_a_buck
    I remain,
    Kev
    
8.1556IAMOK::WASKOMWed Dec 18 1991 18:356
    'Saw -
    
    I think I know a good prop coach, if'n you're interested.  Problem is
    he ain't in Harfaa.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1557BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Dec 18 1991 18:5413
	I played prop in a former life, but I imagine you've learned more
in your years with the Wanderers than I did at MIT, so I couldn't help
much.
	Aren't you just supposed to get a good 5 o'clock shadow and rub
it on the hooker until his face bleeds?  How much technique can there be to
that?
	Just kidding, I have the utmost respect for any FORWARD.

	FYI, I propped for about 10 or 15 scrums warming up our side for 
the Boston game down in Baton Rogue, and I still have prop-neck from it.
You props are just so tough!

Rachael
8.1558Him/herEDUOZ::THURGARWed Dec 18 1991 19:0033
    Yes Madge is a him.
    
    It is a nickname from school - been in the family for 20 years, got
    handed down from my brother. It has something to do with the Palmolive
    lady. A friend of mine for 8 years never knew my real name. A lot of
    people I play basketball with dont know my real name. People wonder
    about the personalised number plates on my car with the initials (sorry
    - I cant tell). Gotta keep Hawke in suspenders.
    
    Nobody at Digital Australia knows my nickname. Only a select band of
    people are allowed to call me that.
    
    When is this party ?? Too cold outside. Why not all fly down here and
    get a tan. I dont mind. I would really like to meet the people in this
    notes conference. Imagine trying to put names to faces and bodies. I
    could continue on this vain, but it may insult. Why not do a profile on
    people you have never met.
    
    First question: What sex are you (M/F/Unsure/Still making my mind
    up/Soccer player/Depends on the day/What do you want me to be).
    
    Second question: Height (metic or imperial) ?
    (Tall/short/midrange/depends on who I am standing next to/the right
    height/basketballer/jockey/garden gnome)
    
    Got the idea
    
    To all my Rugby friends have a great,safe Merry Xmas and may 1992 be
    a year of rucking and mauling with running rugby in yer veins.
    
    All the best
    
    Madge (MADA)
8.1559CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 18 1991 19:0345
>	FYI, I propped for about 10 or 15 scrums warming up our side for 
>the Boston game down in Baton Rogue, and I still have prop-neck from it.
>You props are just so tough!

Keep talking Rach,  I love hearing it...


I know that I learned a lot between my first and second seasons at
prop.  

My best prop games this fall were White Plains (against their A side
loosehead playing a second game) and New Haven, where I was able to
twist their loosehead a lot.   Oh yeah, Amoskeag was the hardest,
but I think their locks were just doing a GREAT job, and their loosehead
was pushing me DOWN....


Anyway, I know that the WRONG thing is to get lifted.  But knowing what's
WRONG, and knowing how to do it right are two different things.

Biggest problem this past season, before switching to hooker, was
getting split from the hooker.  I think the broken hand had something
to do with it...


All I know is to crouch like you're making #2 on a hunting trip,
MEET the other prop halfway (don't catch him on your side), arch
your back and drive...


Technique is everything I've been told....


I hope all this working out will help....



'Saw


PS A&W, I think that particular prop coach might be TOO busy with
   other stuff....


8^)
8.1560IAMOK::WASKOMWed Dec 18 1991 19:1311
    'Saw -
    
    I wouldn't be too sure.  The medicos told him it was time to hang 'em
    up this week.  :-(  He's none too sure that he'll follow through on
    that recommendation, but knows he can't prop any more, and isn't sure
    that he'll get even C-side selections at another position due to lack
    of speed.  
    
    Plan B is to be a ref, serious-like.
    
    A&W
8.1561nice hint there Madge!!!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYI gots a foamy Burma-Drood(tm)Wed Dec 18 1991 19:141
    
8.1562CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 18 1991 19:1557
>    It is a nickname from school - been in the family for 20 years, got
>    handed down from my brother. It has something to do with the Palmolive
>    lady. A friend of mine for 8 years never knew my real name. A lot of
>    people I play basketball with dont know my real name. People wonder
>    about the personalised number plates on my car with the initials (sorry
>    - I cant tell). Gotta keep Hawke in suspenders.


Madge.  We have a guy on our team called Pete The Dick.  When I asked
him how he got that nickname, he told me in college his roommate had
been nicknamed Ed the Dick.  When Ed graduated, Pete got the nickname.
Guess they do get transferred...
    
>    When is this party ?? Too cold outside. Why not all fly down here and
>    get a tan. I dont mind. I would really like to meet the people in this
>    notes conference. Imagine trying to put names to faces and bodies. I
>    could continue on this vain, but it may insult. Why not do a profile on
>    people you have never met.

The first time I ever went to a noter get together, everyone was shocked.
They had all thought I was a 5'8" (don't know the cm for that sorry)
ex-Marine, with tattoos and a crewcut.

I was 6' tall with long hair and a beard...

Now I'm 6' tall, no beard, moustache and a crew cut....hahahahahah


>    First question: What sex are you (M/F/Unsure/Still making my mind
>    up/Soccer player/Depends on the day/What do you want me to be).

Sex?  Whenever I can get it...
    
>    Second question: Height (metic or imperial) ?
>    (Tall/short/midrange/depends on who I am standing next to/the right
>    height/basketballer/jockey/garden gnome)

180 cm  (if there are 2.5cm /inch)....  6'...

Weight 104.5kg, 16.4 Stone, 230lbs...

Believe it or not folks, the propbutt is getting smaller....8^)
    
    
>    To all my Rugby friends have a great,safe Merry Xmas and may 1992 be
>    a year of rucking and mauling with running rugby in yer veins.
    

Madge,

May your every ruck find you keeping possession, may all your rolling
mauls score tries, and may your drinkups be better than your winning
matches....

Here's to ya, mate,
'Saw

8.1563CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 18 1991 19:2020
>    I wouldn't be too sure.  The medicos told him it was time to hang 'em
>    up this week.  :-(  He's none too sure that he'll follow through on
>    that recommendation, but knows he can't prop any more, and isn't sure
>    that he'll get even C-side selections at another position due to lack
>    of speed.  

Depending on the injury (can't remember if you've mentioned it)
at his age I wouldn't be trying to prop if the docs said nay.

There's always flanker, they don't do much  8^) 8^) 8^)

Weak side wing.  Lots of time to brush your hair...  


Actually, the reffing sounds good too [learn offsides] and it would
always be [learn offsides] helpful to the league [learn offsides]
to have another good ref [learn offsides] in the stable....


'Saw
8.1564nice hint there 'Saw! ;^)CST17::FARLEYI gots a foamy Burma-Drood(tm)Wed Dec 18 1991 19:231
    
8.1565CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomWed Dec 18 1991 19:2614
Kev,

We gotta get you out to watch a game this spring.

Ideally, the coolest thing would be to have a SPORTS gettogether
which coincides with the New England Tournament in Newport.

I seriously doubt if I'll be playing (we only have a 19 man panel for
tournaments I think) but I'd be available for explanations and such...
We could get a keg, do a tailgate or something....


later,
'Saw
8.1566tell Mac not to wimp out (again) and I'll come ~/~CST17::FARLEYI gots a foamy Burma-Drood(tm)Wed Dec 18 1991 19:301
    
8.1567CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Dec 18 1991 19:329
    Actually, with the state of referring in New England (and probably the
    US), it doesn't matter if he is a good ref as long as he is willing to
    pick up a whistle and get on the pitch.  There just aren't enough
    referees to go around.  I have that info first hand every week during
    rugby season when the captain of the WPIRFC asks me if there is
    anything I can do about getting a ref.  At the NERFU AGM someone
    actually had the nerve to suggest that college teams be required to
    supply refs to the Union.  Heck, most college teams can't even find
    coaches.
8.1568The only bid so farCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Dec 18 1991 19:369
8.1569Yes I do and they're better than YOURS!!!!!CST17::FARLEYI gots a foamy Burma-Drood(tm)Wed Dec 18 1991 20:0319
    Mac (my pal),
    
    My refusals to go have been based on you wimping out of the 
    "Match Of The Decade" against the 'Sawman - TWO times!!!!!
    This isn't a "Mac's My Hero" fan club, ya gotta earn this
    guy's admiration.  Ya see, the way I figger it, when 'Saw was
    tellin me how he was gonna trash ya, again and again, I was
    really looking forward to the match.  I wanted to see if you were
    half the man as the Mountain Man........
    
    Then you came up with some wimpy excuses.   :*(
    
    So, if you can have excuses, *I* can have excuses ('cept *my* excuses
    are good ones!)!
    
    ta ta   ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1570CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomThu Dec 19 1991 09:5730
>    My refusals to go have been based on you wimping out of the 
>    "Match Of The Decade" against the 'Sawman - TWO times!!!!!

I think it was only once.

WRFC chose not to play our fixture this past fall because they had
made the playoffs.  That's cool.

We did play them last spring, and I'll be a sport and just say that
we won.  I didn't get a chance to play against Mac.  He played B side
and didn't come back out (I think?) for the C side match.

We played them in the Connecticut Cup and won, but they put up
a GOOD fight.

WRFC is a FUN team to play.  They do more funky shit with lineouts 
than any other club I've seen, and their ruggers are just FUN ruggers,
as opposed to the ruggers from Boston, who play like they've got
a corn-cob stuck someplace uncomfortable...


If you folks go to Newport, and Mac and I aren't playing, he and I will
play one-on-one rugby if ya want 8^)


btw, I HOPE Newport gets it.  I DON'T WANT it in HARTFORD.  (too much
work)....8^)


'Saw
8.1571BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Dec 19 1991 10:4456
8.1572CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomThu Dec 19 1991 10:5926
8.1574and attend a club member's weddingCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 19 1991 11:565
8.1575I'm (advance) counting Spring, 1992! hth... ;^)CST17::FARLEYDashing throught da Droods(tm)Thu Dec 19 1991 14:091
    
8.1576BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Dec 19 1991 14:1317
'Hawk. 
	You know I'd love to wrap you up in tape and stomp on you with my
cleats, but I just this morning made arrangements with one of my friends
to meet her and her boyfriend for dinner.  Maybe next weekend.  Oh, no,
I'll be away.  It'll have to be in January sometime...  At least the
ground will be quite frozen by then, we could do it outside somewhere to 
add to the thrill.

Hey Mac, what's an aslo or whatever?  My doggie's a Laprador.  (You know,
a lab that think's she's a teacup poodle and belongs  in your lap)  And
you still haven't told us what night is good for us all to come over.
Seriously, now, I want to meet for dinner but it doesn't have to be
at Mac's house.  Maybe somewhere in Worcester, that should be close to
halfway as I'll be living in JP for January, most likely.  Unless someone
knows a good truck-stop on 84 or the Pike.

Rachael
8.1577CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 19 1991 14:336
    Rachael, a viszla is a Hungarian birddog related to the Weimaraner and
    German Pointer.
    
    As for dinner recommendations, there is a restaurant in Worcester that
    is owned by a retired Irish rugger who is now a social member of the
    WRFC.  It's a great Irish pub type place.
8.1579Lets go!!HPSRAD::RIEURead his Lips...Know new taxesThu Dec 19 1991 14:492
       Magic LAntern, I've heard nasty things about this place!!
                                         Denny
8.1580do thet still employ UMass coeds? 8^)CTHQ3::LEARYbusted flat in baton rougeThu Dec 19 1991 14:581
    
8.1581BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Dec 19 1991 15:305
	I think I'll take recommendations from Papa Mac, thank you.  Then
again, good Irish food?  Is that anything like good English food?  I couldn't
wait to get back in the states and get to a McDonald's.

Rachael
8.1583CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 19 1991 15:565
    The food is not Irish, but the atmosphere is.  The food is kind of a
    Continental Irish.  The Guinness Pie puts normal Beef Pot Pies to
    shame.  He even manages to jazz up Corned Beef and Cabbage and serves a
    good fish & chips.  They have some pasta, chicken and seafood items on
    the menu as well.
8.1585IAMOK::WASKOMThu Dec 19 1991 16:356
    Well, with Mac coming up with a reasonable suggestion for a location,
    I'll try for a day/time.  (Freudian slip.  I almost entered "date" for
    "day/time".  I don't think I need that grief.)  Howzabout Friday, Jan
    17 around 6 or 6:30?
    
    A&W
8.1586CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 19 1991 16:483
    I don't know about this get together thing.  Having my wife and
    daughter around rugby players is one thing (and on the whole, a good
    thing), but around Freakin' Lunatics?  I dunno...
8.1587Are we about to see "Wimp-out #3"??????? ;^)CST17::FARLEYDashing throught da Droods(tm)Thu Dec 19 1991 17:001
    
8.1589CTHQ3::LEARYbusted flat in baton rougeThu Dec 19 1991 17:036
    What's wrong wif the Freakin' Lunatics, Mac??
    Yer family would be in fine company unless JaKe hopped a plane from
    Pittsburgh. Then he could reopen  Just ask JaKe file.  8^)
    
    MikeL
    
8.1590CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomThu Dec 19 1991 17:0517
I could deal with mixed grill.

I'd love to have haggis sometime too....8^)


Anyway, Hawk, to answer your question, Mikey might make a superb fullback.
He's no prop...   I'd like to see LT as a flanker...

And I guess if I ever go to England, I'd better watch the pain medication
because I'm really allergic to codeine...


Mac, you're wife and daughter have been around me, and I'm both....



'Saw
8.1591CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Dec 19 1991 17:053
    My wife and daughter are rugby groupies, not rugby groupie wannabees
    like some guys in here who we won't mention (their initials are Kev
    Farley and John "Hawk" Szabo).
8.1592CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomThu Dec 19 1991 17:0910
>
>    My wife and daughter are rugby groupies, not rugby groupie wannabees
>    like some guys in here who we won't mention (their initials are Kev
>    Farley and John "Hawk" Szabo).


[In the most staid Aussie rugby commentator voice]

	Oh, and look there, there's the prop, Macneal single-handedly
	rucking over and preserving possession for the Yanks...
8.1593great spin move Mac, too bad it failed! try again?CST17::FARLEYDashing throught da Droods(tm)Thu Dec 19 1991 17:181
    
8.1595BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Dec 19 1991 18:2210
	I think that's a good time for me, too.  The food sounds good.  In
fact, I'd like some right now, do they deliver to the center of the universe,
I mean Maynard?
	Mac, I think it'd be fun to have your wife and baby, so long as
they're not too bored or anything by the fabulous tales we'll tell about
ourselves.

	I'll just double-check that date...

Rachael
8.1596Ho Ho EDUOZ::THURGARThu Dec 19 1991 20:0029
    Panadeine and a coke - nothing better for a headache. Except Digesics -
    instant buzz.
    
    Stats:
    
    Height 6" 1/2'
    Weight 175 lbs (8% body fat)
    Build  Flanker or centre
    Hair   Fair - used to be fairer and long and curly - now short
    
    Single as of 10:00 am on Friday 20 December 1991.
    And happy.
    
    No pets.
    
    Did somebody mention about a daughter (hehehe)
    
    Age 29 (turning 30 nexted year)
    
    Motto: Live hard die young, you may not be around tomorrow
    
    Have a drink for me over Xmas.
    Take care for the holidays.
    
    Talk to you all in the New Year.
    
    BesT wishes
    
    Madge - Adam (Xmas present for those who didnt know) 
8.1597CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 09:3840
I've noticed a couple of times in talking with Madge about heigh and
weight that he's mentioned % of body fat.

I think that's a trend nowadays, because really a height and weight
doesn't mean a whole lot.

I mean, I started working out 6 or 7 weeks ago.  Since that time I have
been staying steady between 225 and 230.  However, I've noticed other
things happening.

For example, the first night I went to the gym after returning from
my busted hand, and I started free weights, Mike handed me a belt
so he could show me squats.  There are two "communal belts" in the gym.
Well, he handed me the small one, and I could literally not get the
end into the buckle.

On Wednesday night, when I went to squat, I could not find the bigger belt.
I definitely wanted a belt, and so, kind of desperate I tried the
smaller belt, figuring if I could get the first hole it'd work.

I managed to buckle the thing FOUR holes down...   


No weight loss, but stomach went somewhere....


Anyway, the %body fat statistic is becoming more important, because
a lot of insurance companies were refusing to insure police officers.
Now a lot of the cops I know work out like madmen, and they have
very "heavy" height/weight combos, which would, on any insurance chart,
appear as obese  (as I'm sure 6' 230 must)....  However, the cops I know
who work out must have a very low % body fat.



Anyone know how tough it is to get test for that?????



'Saw
8.1598CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 09:4223
8.1599BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 20 1991 09:5616
'Saw,
	There's a few tests for body fat that I know of.  One is the pinch
test, there's a little hand held device (kind of like a tricorder) that
they pinch you with in a few key places and come up with a result.  It's
not tremendously accurate but gives you a ballpark idea.  I think it's +-
about 5%.  They're very common, I'd ask your club or the nurse at work if
they can do it for you.  PT's would also have one, if you feel like going to
a clinic.  

	The other one is the submersion test, they estimate your density on
the water you displace or some such thingee.  It's a lot more accurate but
harder to find.

	
Rachael

8.1600BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 20 1991 09:588
The one thing I do hate about men...
	They get in shape so damn quickly. 

I am not the only woman I know who is annoyed by this.

	Of course, when they get out of shape,  it tends to go further too.

Rach  :^)
8.1601CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 10:0222
>The one thing I do hate about men...
>	They get in shape so damn quickly. 


I have one friend (a woman) who'd be a superb body builder.  She
puts muscle on quicker than ANYONE I've ever met....


>	Of course, when they get out of shape,  it tends to go further too.

It starts with my ass.  If I eat too much ice cream (a PASSION), or
too many cookies, all of a sudden, the prop_butt gets BIGGER.

From my ass it goes to my love handles, then my stomach.

The cool thing about working out is that my butt is, for now, getting
smaller (yippee) and the stomach is getting relatively flatter.  Now
the love handles are still there, but they will go away....


'Saw

8.1602BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 20 1991 10:394
OK, so it'll be just me and Alison at the restaurant in January.  We'll have 
a grand old time and talk about you all.

Rachael
8.1603CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 11:137
>OK, so it'll be just me and Alison at the restaurant in January.  We'll have 
>a grand old time and talk about you all.

I'm planning on coming, avec guest....


'Saw
8.1604I'll bring the tunesFRETZ::HEISERelectric warrior/acoustic saintFri Dec 20 1991 12:181
    
8.1606BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Dec 20 1991 12:304
You know, Hawk, sometimes it's hard to get a grip on the little tricorders,
so they wrap the handle in electrical tape.

Rach
8.1607CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 12:4817
Dammit KWAK!

Here we are, none of us KNOW our schedule.  I KNOW that I'd have to give
up a night in the gym.  I KNOW that I'll be in Nashua and then Boston
the day before, so that'll be TWO trips north in TWO days, yet *I'M*
going...

Why don't you just put yer foot down, clear the decks and come out and
have fun sometime. 

I think yer just afraid of Rachael is what *I* think....

50-50 my ass....get yer buns to da party, or we may just take a road
trip North to Have-her-hill and bust up yer fern bar.....8^)


'Saw
8.1609IAMOK::WASKOMFri Dec 20 1991 15:149
    Hawk -
    
    If you actually show, I will break a long-standing tradition and buy
    you a beer.
    
    If you fail to show, I will personally organize the road trip to your
    place of alternate employment  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1610CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 15:307
Hawk...

I will buy you a man's beer...a rugger man's beer.


hth,
'Saw
8.1611Rugger beers galoreCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Dec 20 1991 17:281
    O'Connors serves both Murphy's and Guinness stouts.
8.1612CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 17:347
Is 1/17 at 6pm confirmed?

I'm game, and I will bring a Mystery Guest....



'Saw
8.1613Rugby is a lot like rugby...AXIS::ROBICHAUDMorT - NoMain's NOTYFri Dec 20 1991 17:351
    
8.1614CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomFri Dec 20 1991 17:366
>                       -< Rugby is a lot like rugby... >-

NOT

Rugby is a way of life....    

8.1615HPSRAD::RIEURead his Lips...Know new taxesFri Dec 20 1991 17:391
       Life is a microcosm of Rugby.
8.1616CARROL::LEFEBVREWorld leader pretendFri Dec 20 1991 17:461
    Pygmies are a microorganism of Life.
8.1617MCIS1::DHAMELWe *all* put the yeast in!Fri Dec 20 1991 17:463
    
    There is *nothing* like rugby, or so I'm told.
    
8.1618IAMOK::WASKOMFri Dec 20 1991 17:536
    As far as *I'm* concerned, 1/17 at 6:00 is confirmed.
    
    I have it written in in my datebook and everything -- although like
    everything in my datebook, it's in pencil.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1620Ain't that right Vern !!QUASER::HUNTERBad_Boy of ::SPORTSFri Dec 20 1991 19:177
    Rugby is a lot like bobbing for water...
    
    
    	Ya Can't miss...
    
    BG
    
8.1621Heaven with Leather and CleatsEDUOZ::THURGARSun Dec 22 1991 20:0024
    Ok its all set. 17th January 1992, 6:00pm.
    
    'Saw thanks for the offer to fly me over to be your mystery guest.
    Invitation gladly accepted.
    
    Hawk - you better turn up. Otherwise you may get a visit from the
    runaway props that ran over Rachaels' brother just before his wedding.
    
    Drink some real beer (for me - not Fosters - its too sweet).
    
    Body Fat % - the pincer test is OK and fairly accurate. Water emmersion
    is the best way. Think I may have undone all the good work on Saturday
    night. But what a way to go. The hardest thing I find with training is
    getting definition in your stomach muscles (I work hard on the
    abdominals - like flat as a board but little definition).
    
    Maybe we could all go to the gym on the 17th and work out before hand
    ??
    
    All the best.
    
    The meaning of Rugby _ "Heaven"
    
    Madge
8.1622!CSTEAM::FARLEYDashing throught da Droods(tm)Mon Dec 23 1991 01:081
    Christmas morning, with kids, is a lot like rugby!
8.1623CAMONE::WAYI believe I'll dust my broomMon Dec 23 1991 09:2218
Well, I'm having TWO whole workouts off at Christmas.

Tonight I'm off, and of course Wednesday I'm off.  


I guess I've got the bug though, because I was up early on Sunday morning
to watch Lee Haney's Championship Workout on ESPN.  I'd never want to be
that big (and besides, if I were that big, I'd look more like a football
lineman than a body builder) but the exercises are good...


My stomach might be flat SOMEDAY.  I'm doing crunches now, along
with jacknifes at the end of the workout...

Will probably do more stairmaster than running this winter too....


'Saw
8.1624CARROL::LEFEBVREWorld leader pretendMon Dec 23 1991 09:5315
    Saw, some other ab routines you could try which will help maintain your
    interest in this muscle group:
    
    Leg raises
    Obliques (sit on a decline bench with your feet under the supports 
    	      and work both sides of your abdomen)
    Knee raises (if you have a knee raise station at the gym)
    Bicycle pedaling while on your back
    
    Also, there's a bunch of routines you can do while on your back...
    Check out the ab portion of an aerobics class.
    
    Pretty soon you'll be able to play checkers on your tummy...
    
    Mark.
8.1625CAMONE::WAYWake up mama, turn your lamp down lowMon Dec 23 1991 13:0019
8.1626CAMONE::WAYWake up mama, turn your lamp down lowMon Dec 23 1991 15:4310
So, we are definite on January 17, 6pm?

I'll put it in my book....


I'll need directions.


Thanks,
'Saw
8.1628CAMONE::WAYWake up mama, turn your lamp down lowMon Dec 23 1991 16:0222
|    > I'll put it in my book....
|    
|    > I'll need directions.
|    
|    Find book that has "Weekly Minder 1992" on the front cover.  Open to
|    "Week Beginning 13 Jan".  Find "Fri 17".  Write, "Rugby/Sports Noters
|    get-together, 6pm.  Bring Eagles jersey and tape.  Remember belly
|    wrap."
    

Oh, I've got a Day Timer, so I can put it right in there.  

I can wear my Eagles jersey, although I try not to wear that around
other ruggers, since I don't want them to think I'm pretentious.
Tape is not a problem.

I don't use a belly wrap.  Never hurt my ribs, so no need to use one.
Besides, props should have a bit of a stomach, I think....  A bit of
a stomach and no neck.....


'Saw
8.1629Detailed directionsEDUOZ::THURGARMon Dec 23 1991 19:509
    Hawk - how about directions for me.
    
    Get up, catch taxi to airport, get on plane etc etc etc
    
    'Saw - 1993 I am pysched. Save up your money and be prepared to have ya
    butt kicked by the best club rugby in the world. Look forward to seeing
    you. It should be huge.
    
    Madge
8.1631C'mon Hawk, no prop-butt jokes 8^)CTHQ1::LEARYbusted flat in baton rougeTue Dec 24 1991 11:561
    
8.1632Directions for 1/17 get-togetherIAMOK::WASKOMMon Jan 06 1992 19:5821
    Cross-posted from the get-togethers topic, so that none of those
    planning on going miss out on this.
    
    
    Mac sent me mail, with the following information:
    
    O'Connor's Restaurant
    West Boylston St.
    Worcester, MA

    Take 290 West to 190 North.  Get off at Exit 4 (Route 12).  Take a
    right at the end of the ramp onto 12 South/West Boylston Street. 
    O'Connor's will be on your left.

    This place is pretty popular, so I suggest you make reservations.

    
    Given the reservations suggestion, I will volunteer to coordinate that
    bit.  Please *send me mail* if you are planning to come.
    
    A&W
8.1633CAMONE::WAYHigh-toned son of a bitchTue Jan 07 1992 10:3126
Well, the gym is starting to fill up with those well-meaning, misguided
individuals who think they can pack a full year's worth of fitness into
January.  I have to admit, however, that the aerobics classes are certainly
starting to get more distracting.


Did my workout last night, but still wimped on the aerobics part (either
Stairmaster or bike).

Heard a neat conversation between two of my buddies, who happen to play
football.  One is, by trade, a lineman, who occasionally plays LB.  He
was complaining about being outside, getting ready to make the tackle
and being blocked.  The other, a LB by trade, was commiserating with him.

I couldn't help but smile and think how rugby differs from football
in that regard, but when the conversation turned to running backs who
can fake you out of your jock, well, THAT I knew something about.

Nothing in the world feels worse than drawing a bead on a guy and having
him juke you....nothing.


Lifting is going well, and i'm still enjoying it....


'Saw
8.1634BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jan 07 1992 12:1031
Well it's been about 4 weeks so it't time to get going.  I (gasp) did some
circuits yesterday at the old gym, and went to an hour and a half of hockey
practice last night.  Today, I'll do nothing, as I have to run errands
at lunch and have a meeting tonight.  Tomorrow I'll lift again, and then
Thursday... I'm going to go to rugby practice.  We haven't actually started
yet but the MIT men will start tonight indoors.  I really like practicing
with them, they are really nice guys and have fun practices.  Very challenging
for me, I'm about the slowest and weakest one there.

I've done very close to no exercise since the end of the season, having run
about once or twice a week and that's it.  But I did help debug a board,
go to California for a week, and move to Cambridge.   My weight has actually
dropped since the season, but I think it is probaby muscle loss and flab gain.
I really enjoy taking time off, and now I'm really psyched to get back into
shape again.  The Spring is our serious season, pretty good motivation to
start working out now.  Plus I'll need to be in my finest shape to wow the
babes in the Spring.

Right now I'm pretty sore, but probably not as sore as I would have been if
I hadn't played hockey.  I think that loosened me up.

My plan right now is to work out pretty regularly for the month of January,
via lifting, rugby practice, and hockey, and then take stock of where I am 
and what to work on next.

Yesterday when I was curling my arms looked so good, I want them to look
that good all the time.

I'm ready for dinner the 17th.  I told my roommates they'll have to doggy-sit.

Rachael
8.1635CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteTue Jan 07 1992 12:2929
>Plus I'll need to be in my finest shape to wow the
>babes in the Spring.


Me too!  heh, heh, heh....


>Yesterday when I was curling my arms looked so good, I want them to look
>that good all the time.

You too?  

Damn, my arms pump up wicked good, and they pump up so much that they
feel like my skin is way too tight.  

The only problem is that by the time the next morning rolls around,
I've don't have these bitchin' pythons any more, I've got little
milk snakes....8^(


>I'm ready for dinner the 17th.  I told my roommates they'll have to doggy-sit.

I can't decide whether I want meat and potatoes, or pasta....


I did the most crunches I've EVER done last night....


'Saw
8.1636???????CST17::FARLEYR.I.P. Grandma, say Hi to Mom &amp; Dad :*(Tue Jan 07 1992 13:009
    I've heard of curling hair and I've heard of curling pretzels
    but this is the first I've heard of curling arms!
    
    Doesn't that make it difficult to pick your nose?
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1637CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 13:034
    I should probably start my training regimen soon.  I have a game in
    mid-February.  By a stroke of luck, a business trip will take me back
    to Austin, TX.  I talked to the coach down there recently and he's
    already reserving a spot for me in that week's game.
8.1638WRFC Spring '92 ScheduleCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 13:0819
    The Revised Worcester Spring Schedule is now available.
    
    March 26	Connecticut Yankees		Stamford, CT
    April  4	MIT				Cambridge, MA
          11	Manhattan			Home
          18	Berkshire vs B-side		Pittsfield, MA
          25	Charles River			Home
    	  26 Central MA Collegiate Tournament	Home (9 am)
    May    2	Rockaway			Home
           9	Albany				Home
          16	New England Tournament		TBA
    	  30	Old Gold			Boston, MA
    June   6	Portland Tournament		Portland, ME
          13	Alumni Social Event		TBA
    
    All home games are played at Quinsigimond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Matches start at 1 pm unless otherwise noted.

    
8.1639ducking Haffa again, eh Mac????? ;^)CST17::FARLEYR.I.P. Grandma, say Hi to Mom &amp; Dad :*(Tue Jan 07 1992 13:101
    
8.1640CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 13:144
    At next week's NERFU board meeting, we'll be discussing the Albany
    Knickerbockers request to join NERFU and compete in Division II.  Other
    things to be discussed include the expansion of Division I to 10 teams
    and the organization of a graduate school league.
8.1641CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteTue Jan 07 1992 13:1419
A schedule listing I saw in RUGBY listed the New England tournament
as Newport....

Kev, I don't think Worcester is ducking Hartford.  It might be that 
Hartford elected not to play Worcester this spring.

In the spring, Hartford has a hard time finding teams which can field
three sides.  I'd be very surprised if we play New York Irish this
spring, due to the way they stiffed us last spring.

It might be that we decided not to play WRFC because of the difficulty
they might have in fielding three sides.  


I'm just guessing, because I'm not the Match and Fixtures Secretary....



'SAw
8.1642CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteTue Jan 07 1992 13:1721
>    At next week's NERFU board meeting, we'll be discussing the Albany
>    Knickerbockers request to join NERFU and compete in Division II.  Other
>    things to be discussed include the expansion of Division I to 10 teams
>    and the organization of a graduate school league.

Albany in Division II?

I'm really surprised.  They've played us well the times they've played
us, and they can field three sides.  I'm very surprised they'd look to
Division II.

Division I to ten teams?  That might be interesting.

Graduate school league?  Why not let them join the nearest men's club?


Just curious.....


'Saw

8.1643CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 13:2117
8.1644CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 13:2510
8.1645here's the facts and the only conclusion!!!!!!CST17::FARLEYR.I.P. Grandma, say Hi to Mom &amp; Dad :*(Tue Jan 07 1992 14:1819
    
    OK Mac,
    
    Lemme guess.
    
    Maybe you guys have been playing Haffa for the last few years. Right?
    
    Probably been beating them too!
    
    Then ya heard about that one tough dude out of Hebron and his animal
    workouts and ya got skeered!  Right?
    
    and then, as they say, ya wimped out!
    
    That's how I see it.
    
    Kev
    
    
8.1646CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 14:576
8.1647BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jan 07 1992 14:5918
re: The grad school thing

Mac's right on target, of course.  MIT cannot field a competetive undergrad
team, many of their better players are grad students or alumni.  Some of
those guys had been playing for years when I started rugby.  They're not
as quick as they used to be, of course...

'Saw, you're probably wondering why they stay with MIT, instead of going
to play club.  Well, the answer is that they are a club, in the true 
sense, not just a college team.  They have a tradition, they've been around
since the 50's, they are really good buddies with each other, etc.  Only
problem is, since it's a college based team, the amount of them that do 
stick around for those reasons are enough to disqualify them for collegiate
play, but not enough to make them competetive at the club level.

Rachael

PS Mac be kind to them.  Like I said, they're my buddies.
8.1648CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 15:1210
8.1649CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteTue Jan 07 1992 15:3313
Oh, I didn't understand they were a club.  I see now.


Well, Newport in May or whenever will be nice!


Mac, have you gotten the Rugby Calendar issue yet?  Or did I miss that
in the lapse in my subscription?

Rach, did you get anything in the mail yet?


'Saw
8.1650CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 16:126
8.1651Hoot,monCTHQ1::LEARYbusted flat in baton rougeTue Jan 07 1992 16:4710
    
    What! No Rugby calendar! Jeez and this was the year when they were
    supposed to publish the combination Worcester-Hartford Scottish
    Bikini Team. I'm severely disappointed.
    
    MikeL
    8^)
    
    
    
8.1652BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jan 07 1992 16:5620
8.1653CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 07 1992 17:007
    Sounds like 'Saw beat me to it.  I threw that issue of "Rugby" into my
    briefcase the day I got it so that I could send a copy of that article
    to Rachael, but I forgot.
    
    Speaking of that issue, I see that a member of the Wanderers has been
    invited to next week's Eagles' camp.  It wasn't Glenn Judge.  Judging
    by the size of him, I figure it must be one of the locks.
8.1655Lonely Guy HawkEDUOZ::THURGARTue Jan 07 1992 18:465
    Re: 8.1654
    
    Hawk still trying to find somebody to party with.
    
    Madge
8.1656It True... really !QUASER::HUNTERBad_Boy of ::SPORTSTue Jan 07 1992 20:2011
    
     Well,
    
     Who the heck would want to party with Sqwak any how.  All the guy does
    is make totaly outragous comments about how great John (Big Bad John)
    Elway is and how the Donks are gonna win the SB...  I heard everyone
    out here was glad when he finaly went home.
    
    Many  ;^)
    
    Big Game
8.1657CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteTue Jan 07 1992 20:3616
Wow, Mac, I completely missed that...

It's Tom Brewer.  8man actually....  He commutes to play with us, from
down in Westchester.  His brother Ed was one of our props last spring,
but he didn't play this fall...

I'm bummed that Glen didn't get invited....



Rach, glad you liked it.  I was hoping it would make your day.  I'll 
try to remember to bring the issue on the 17th so we can figure out
who it is....


'Saw
8.1658Major Wreck My Day Phonecall! :*(CSTEAM::FARLEYR.I.P. Grandma, say Hi to Mom &amp; Dad :*(Tue Jan 07 1992 22:5717
    Major Bummer time Mannnn,
    
    Just got a phone call from my son's Cub Scout leader who informed us
    that the monthly meeting will be held on the 17th, starting at 6:30!
    :*(
    
    Unfortunately, at this time is looks like I won't make it.
    
    Damm!
    double damm!
    
    I was yer,
    happy participant,
    Kev
    
    ps - who knows?????  maybe I can get there late like Hawk
    
8.1659More off-season work.BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jan 08 1992 09:5123

6:30 Boy Scouts should be OK.  Don't know about the rest of these guys,
but with the amount of food I plan on eating, we should be there for a
while...  I hope you can make it late.

Last night I changed my plans and went and practiced with MIT.  We ran a
tad of fitness, then a few lines, then played touch forever.  I didn't 
learn much, but it's great fitness work for me.  Especially the latter
two activities, as I have to keep up with persons generally much larger
and faster than myself.  I don't really like playing touch, I get bored,
but it's good fitness work and also good for ball handling and mobility.

Today will be my day off, I think.  I don't want my body to go into shock,
doing athletic stuff 3 times in 2 days after lounging around for a month.
That leaves me Thursday to go to rugby practice again, and Friday to lift
and go to hockey practice.  I am much closer to the rink now in my new home, 
so it's really easy for me to go to hockey practice whenever I want, and
the coach doesn't mind.  I'd be so psyched if I started this season in good
shape.  It's been a while since I've really felt like I was in good shape.


Rachael
8.1660CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteWed Jan 08 1992 10:0810
Jeez, Rachael, yer making me feel guilty!


Just a correction (sort of) on Tom Brewer's invitation to the Eagles camp.

It's the Eagles 7s camp (which is probably why Glen's name didn't appear).
It should be interesting to see if he makes it....


'Saw
8.1661IAMOK::WASKOMWed Jan 08 1992 10:5619
    Kev -
    
    I am major league bummed that you can't make it.
    
    Participants in the outing so far:
    
    	me
    	'Saw
    	Mac
    	Rachel
    	Ninj
    
    	Hawk - coming late  (hope, hope)
    
    Others are cordially invited.  We're actually a very nice group of
    folks, and promise to leave electrical tape and such-like home on this
    occasion.  
    
    A&W
8.1663BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jan 08 1992 11:466
Hawk,
	Not to get you too excited or anything, but the full name of the
game is "Two Hands Below the Waist Touch".  I'll tell you, we were all
exhausted afterwards.

Rachael
8.1665CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jan 08 1992 12:131
    Well since Kev and Hawk are going to wimp out I guess I'll go too.
8.1666'Saw's gonna be there Mac. Gonna reconsider? ;^)CST17::FARLEYR.I.P. Grandma, say Hi to Mom &amp; Dad :*(Wed Jan 08 1992 12:471
    
8.1667On a wing and a prayerEDUOZ::THURGARWed Jan 08 1992 18:449
    If you shout me the air fare I will be there.
    Zubaz pants and all (thanks 'Saw).
    
    Alternatively you can all come to my place. There are 24 pubs in the
    suburb were I live in Sydney. Plus a 10km harbour run.
    
    Run then drink
    
    Madge
8.1669VoyeurEDUOZ::THURGARWed Jan 08 1992 23:203
    And I bet that you like to watch as well.
    
    Madge7
8.1670loud enuf shout?CSTEAM::FARLEYR.I.P. Grandma, say Hi to Mom &amp; Dad :*(Thu Jan 09 1992 00:416
    
    
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
    
    ;^)
    
8.1671CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 09 1992 09:4115
Well, tonight it the Wanderer's AGM.

I have no idea what we're going to talk about, but I'd bet some things
on the agenda will be:

	1. The bar (now called Johnnies)
	2. A captaincy election
	3. The August 1993 Australia Tour
	4. The spring schedule


I hope it doesn't take all night.  I've usually been turning in between
9:30 and 10pm and I get tired these days with all this working out....

'Saw
8.1672CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 09 1992 12:473
    'Saw, if your AGM runs according to all the other AGM's I've been at,
    you won't be home until after midnight - especially if the AGM will be
    held at Johnnie's.
8.1673CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 09 1992 13:0015
>    'Saw, if your AGM runs according to all the other AGM's I've been at,
>    you won't be home until after midnight - especially if the AGM will be
>    held at Johnnie's.


Well, in keeping with my new non-alcohol based outlook on life, I'm 
going to go to Johnnies after work, and have a pint of Newcastle.
Before I go upstairs to the meeting, I will grab a pint of either
club soda, tonic water, or ginger ale.

I'll sit through the meeting, and if I fall asleep, I fall asleep...8^)


'Saw_whose_cut_WAYBACK_on_the_beer_consumption

8.1674QusetionsEDUOZ::THURGARThu Jan 09 1992 19:574
    When does Sports_91 become Sports_92. 'Saw what was said about your
    Aussie tour in 1993 at the AGM.
    
    Madge
8.1675CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 10 1992 09:5562
8.1676CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 10 1992 10:0238
8.1677BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 10 1992 10:309
	Well, my body had something to say about all that sudden exercise,
I got quite sick and it took me about 2 hours to get out of bed and leave
voice-mail for my supervisor yesterday.  Another 2 hours of napping and I
managed to call a live person, as he doesn't always listen to his messages.
And here I am now, barely breathing but here for at least a few hours as I
have lots of work to do.  I'm sure my coworkers will admire my dedication as
they catch my  germs.

Rachael
8.16782 bucks say's Mac lobbies for a fall wimp-out! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 10 1992 10:311
    
8.1679CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 10 1992 10:3629
>            -< 2 bucks say's Mac lobbies for a fall wimp-out!  ;^) >-

I doubt it.

There are a couple of things which could happen:


	- I heard last night that WRFC was interested in Division I.
	  If that is the case, and they get it, then we automatically
	  play them.

	- If WRFC does not go into Division I, I think it would probably
	  be Hartford not wanting to play them, for the following reason.

	  As I stated earlier, Hartford has a very strong goal of
	  getting to the nationals.   They will want to play top flight
	  division I clubs as much as possible.  Nothing against Mac
	  or WRFC, but playing them will not make Hartford push to
	  excel as Hartford would have to against say, the Chicago Lions
	  or Denver Barbarians....


I don't think you'll see Hartford playing Worcester unless it's in the
Connecticut Cup....


'Saw
    

8.1680A wimp-out by any other name..... ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 10 1992 10:481
    
8.1682CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 10 1992 11:1433
>    re: Aussie Tour fundraiser...
>    
>    'Saw, sent me a candy bar and I'll send ya a buck.
>    
>    Hope this hals.
    
I'm not sure of what the fund raisers will be at this point, but
several things that have been done in the past:


	- A raffle.  Two round trip tickets to Hawaii.
	  Tickets were $5 last time.


	- Several golf tournaments.



Andy, the new Manager of Johnny's has expressed an interest in doing
some fundraisers at that bar (Hawk, that's right up your alley! 8^))


I think the general goal it that the Team fundraisers go towards
fully paying for the tour merchandise -- i.e. kit bags, blazers/sweaters
and/or ties, warm up suits, etc.

Then, there are personal fundraiser to offset your personal costs.
One guy, on the NZ tour, ended up raising so much money through fundraisers
that his cost was actually about $200.....


'Saw    

8.1683friendly advice....CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 10 1992 12:2110
    'Saw,
    
    Stay away from the ties since nobody in this file can teach ya
    the right way to tie.
    
    Bruce and MrT use clip-ons!
    
    yer fashion consultant,
    Kev
    
8.1684Aaiieee, a 'Krishna in me midstCTHQ1::LEARYLook what they've done to my song,MawFri Jan 10 1992 12:4625
    
    Was working out at the gym last night when I overheard a guy I know
    muttering "Gotta get in shape for spring rugby" I thought to myself,
    Sheeeit, anudder 'Krishna, 8^).  After some conversation come to find
    out that the guy( name is Al Norton) plays for the Beacon Hill club.
    He mostly plays prop(some hooker also) but wants to do hooker
    permanently as he says he's kinda on the small side for prop(
    5'10,195). Only reason he can play prop is because of a wrestling
    background ( strong neck and shoulders) but it's wearin on him.
    Asked him if he knew any of you guys and gals, but he said nay, as
    this is only his third year on Beacon Hill. He also plays mostly
    B-side in the fall and some A in the spring. I guess his club hasn't
    played Worcester recently but has played agin Hartford. Told me ta
    tell ya 'Saw, that they'll be psyched to kick yo' butts in the NE
    tournament8^). Said he enjoyed the drinkups at your old clubhouse, and
    when I asked him how good they were, he just shook his haid and smiled.
    Wonder if'n he remembered!
    
    I asked the crowning question, "What do you think of the Boston Club?"
    Quick answer "They're assholes!" I guess it's a universal feeling.
    
    MikeL
    
     
    
8.1685CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 10 1992 14:3610
8.1686CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 10 1992 15:006
8.1687CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 10 1992 15:0715
8.1688CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 10 1992 15:2824
MikeL --

	Tell him that the only guy I know well on the Beacon Hill
	side is Soldier.  I hooked against Soldier this year in
	the C side match.

	Tell him that Hartford will whup their sorry Blue and Yellow
	asses at New Englands.....8^)

btw, the Hartford-Beacon Hill "rivalry" is probably one of the friendliest
and most respectful around.  I always enjoy playing them....


Mac -
>    Wednesday's board meeting agenda.  Fortunately, I'll be there to clear
>    up the situation.

So we're stuck again with Boston's Dregs....

Did Amoskeag go down?  I hope not, they have such a disciplined approach
to the game.....


'Saw
8.1689CTHQ1::LEARYLook what they've done to my song,MawFri Jan 10 1992 15:399
    'Saw,
    Al did mention that the Hartford-Beacon Hill was a friendly rivalry.
    Said that some of the now Wanderer players used to play for Beacon
    Hill. I'll relay the message about the New Englands. I'll also tell
    him about your new bar. Still bet he hardly remembers your old
    clubhouse 8^)
    
    MikeL
    
8.1690CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 10 1992 15:477
8.1691CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 10 1992 16:0515
MikeL --

If he had a problem remember the old bar, he'll have more of a problem
remembering the new bar -- Andy is GREAT, and the place is gonna ROCK!


Mac --

I agree!  

If not the challenge then the automatic move up of the 1st place
club.  If they don't want it, then fine, it stays the same....


'Saw
8.1692looks like Mac's gonna owe me 2 bucks! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 10 1992 18:491
    
8.1693IAMOK::WASKOMFri Jan 10 1992 19:585
    Just be sure to let him know that the "new" bar is simply renamed and
    new management at the "old" bar location  :-).  So he won't have to
    remember a new route for getting there.
    
    A&W
8.1694Golf Day ??EDUOZ::THURGARSun Jan 12 1992 18:5915
    'Saw
    
    The AGM for my cricket club never ends before about 1.30am. We have
    done some fundraising for our cricket tour of England. We have had
    trivia nights, sportsmans lunches etc. We have raised about $15,000 a
    year so far, along with raffles and auctions.
    
    I love golf. So I am in for the golf day. What is my tee time. I play
    golf like Seve. Hit the ball as hard as you can, find the bal. Hit the
    ball as hard as you can, find the ball. Hit the ball as hard as you can,
    find the ball.
    
    Anything I can do to help please give me a yell.
    
    Madge
8.1695CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteMon Jan 13 1992 09:4144
>    The AGM for my cricket club never ends before about 1.30am. We have
>    done some fundraising for our cricket tour of England. We have had
>    trivia nights, sportsmans lunches etc. We have raised about $15,000 a
>    year so far, along with raffles and auctions.


Our President (and now our Chairman of the Board Elect) is a very
efficient, very curt, get-things-done person.  He'd make a great fascist
moderator, since he doesn't allow many rat-holes.

For the New Zealand tour, the Club managed to raise enough money on
the club fundraiser to give each man a kit bag, a warmup suit, sweater
and tie, all for free.

I'm gearing up for my fundraising efforts....8^)



    
>    I love golf. So I am in for the golf day. What is my tee time. I play
>    golf like Seve. Hit the ball as hard as you can, find the bal. Hit the
>    ball as hard as you can, find the ball. Hit the ball as hard as you can,
>    find the ball.


I play what they call Army Golf:   Left, Right, Left, Right, and each
hole ends up being about 1500 yards...8^)
    

>    Anything I can do to help please give me a yell.
    

Just make sure that before I go, you make sure we have a place where you
and I (and possibly one more person) can meet when I get to your town.
YOu let me know what that place is, and how to get in touch with you when
I get there.

For my part, I will try to make sure I'm in good enough drinking shape to
have a few beers with you.


No worries, mate.

'Saw
8.1696Glenlivet perhaps????CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteWed Jan 15 1992 10:3917
On the first six days, God created Beer.


	On the Seventh, he played rugby!



Hey, Mac.  I don't know about you, but I'm thinking I might just have
some Scotch on Friday, instead of that first beer.  Might be just the
thing to take the edge of this week.

If you'll join me, we can make a toast to the "bonnie hielands" and
to all ruggers everywhere who are tough enough to lace up the boots
and take the pitch...especially those hearty souls in the front row.


'Saw_who's_psyched....
8.1697FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Jan 15 1992 10:488
    As a friend of mine who played back in rugby put it:
    
    "Rugby is what goes on outside the pack after the forwards are done
    rooting around in the mud."
    
    Have at it, gentlemen.
    
    John
8.1698Backs...only there to make the field look less emptyCAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteWed Jan 15 1992 11:0525
>    As a friend of mine who played back in rugby put it:
>    
>    "Rugby is what goes on outside the pack after the forwards are done
>    rooting around in the mud."
>    
>    Have at it, gentlemen.
    


Hmmph....musta been one of those Nancy backs, who combs his hair while
we Clydesdales get all the work done 8^)


All you have out there is a bunch of male model types who are busy 
trying to get the ladies' phone numbers, while we produce ball.
Once we produce ball, they proceed to throw it around for a while
an promptly lose it, so that we have to go to work again...


On a serious note, the thing I HATE as a forward, is when EVERY single
ball we produce gets spun out to the wing, only to die, because the
winger won't try a little up and under back to the center of the field.


'Saw
8.1699IAMOK::WASKOMWed Jan 15 1992 11:285
    And we have a get-together Friday that is (I believe) all forwards.
    
    I'm rolling.
    
    A&W
8.1700A&W, print that note (-.2) and bring it!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsWed Jan 15 1992 11:361
    
8.1701FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Jan 15 1992 11:368
    That's why he said there wouldn't be any rugby talk since forwards
    don't really play rugby.  Of course, he did say that if the owner of
    the restaurant wanted the bar moved then *that* would be easy to take
    care of.
    
    He had many, many implied smiley faces when he said it, too.
    
    John
8.1702BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jan 15 1992 14:5611
8.1703IAMOK::WASKOMWed Jan 15 1992 15:0420
    I'm going to be making a reservation for us on Friday around noon.  The
    reservation will be for 6:45, to give all of us a chance to get there
    from wherever we work.  Any who want to meet earlier, at the bar, are
    welcome to do so.  I anticipate actually arriving between 6:00 and
    6:30, probably closer to 6:00.  The reservation will be in my name, and 
    as "Digital Sports".  That should be enough to confuse everyone :-)
    
    If you want to be included in the dinner reservation, you *must* send
    me mail, indicating how many folks you will be bringing.  If you're
    going to be coming later (Hawk, Farley - this means you!), letting us
    know is nice but not necessary.
    
    There is a possibility that "my guy" will also be able to attend, for
    those of you who are curious.  He's also a forward :-)  (He wants to
    come and meet y'all, but there's a possibility he'll have to attend a
    work-related function instead.)
    
    This is shaping up to be a fun time....
    
    A&W
8.1704CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteWed Jan 15 1992 15:131
Forwards rule.....
8.1705BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jan 15 1992 17:274
Oh my Gawd, I just found out we start informal practices tomorrow.  Floor
hockey or basketball in the gym.  Not mandatory, which has marginal meaning.

Rachael
8.1706Leaving nowEDUOZ::THURGARWed Jan 15 1992 20:0018
    OK rugby noters.
    
    I have my bags packed - got my vegemite, panadeine (extra
    strength), Wallaby team poster and I am all ready for dinner.
    
    The plane (QF2) leaves at 8.00 am on Friday, get to LA at 10.00am
    Friday (because of time differences). Catch a midday flight to Chicago,
    then a later afternoon flight to Boston. From there a taxi to the bar.
    Then a few quiet lemonades with the eloquent rugby noters gathering.
    
    Saturday fly back home for work on Monday. Lucky I am not teaching next
    week.
    
    Should be a fun night. Jet lag could be a problem though.
    
    On my way
    
    Madge
8.1707CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 16 1992 09:429
>    On my way
>    
>    Madge


Something tells me that this Aussie is just crazy enough to do this....8^)


'Saw
8.1708BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 16 1992 10:0423
Madge,
	Tell me it's true!  I really wish you could be there with us.
Alas, we'll just have to talk about you if you're not there.

	I'm going to go to pracice tonight.  Tonight's practice will
have that special twist known only to women's rugby, practicing with
the ex who will not speak to one.  She's a little peeved at me for leaving.
Thank gawd that I have always loved the game for it's own sake, it's never 
been tied to her.  If she just doesn't kill me I should still have a fun 
season.
	I also talked to this same woman (happens to be an ex-Captain of
Beantown) about my status considering I won't be there Saturday of Nationals.
She had to agreee, I'm pretty screwed for the whole season, as far as playing
goes.  But she reminded me of our prop last Spring who broke her leg and 
didn't end up playing at Nationals at all.  She's the best loosehead in the
country and a great teammate to play with.  But she stayed with the team
and was part of our victory, although not the same as if she had played.
That's what I'll probably have to do, unless some kind of plague strikes
our 17 other flankers.  That made me feel better, although it will still be
very difficult, mostly due to the blows my ego is going to take each time
I get selected over.

Rachael
8.1709CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 16 1992 10:1151
>	I'm going to go to pracice tonight.  Tonight's practice will
>have that special twist known only to women's rugby, practicing with
>the ex who will not speak to one.  


Rachael, Rachael, Rachael...  I'm surprised at you.  After all the times
you've chastised me for thinking that things happen only in Men's rugby,
you insinuate that something like this could only happen in women's 
rugby.  8^) <-- wry little smile here....

Actually, I couldn't resist saying that, but I suppose in a universe
where ANYTHING is possible, there may be a men's club somewhere in the
world where that situation could happen......8^) <- Big ol' Frank grin...


>She's a little peeved at me for leaving.

Ruck over her a couple of times.  That tends to take the peeve right
outta anyone...

>	I also talked to this same woman (happens to be an ex-Captain of
>Beantown) about my status considering I won't be there Saturday of Nationals.
>She had to agreee, I'm pretty screwed for the whole season, as far as playing
>goes.  But she reminded me of our prop last Spring who broke her leg and 
>didn't end up playing at Nationals at all.  She's the best loosehead in the
>country and a great teammate to play with.  But she stayed with the team
>and was part of our victory, although not the same as if she had played.
>That's what I'll probably have to do, unless some kind of plague strikes
>our 17 other flankers.  That made me feel better, although it will still be
>very difficult, mostly due to the blows my ego is going to take each time
>I get selected over.

Remember:

	That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

If you were like 33 or so, and it looked like it might be your last
shot at it, then I'd say worry.

Just remember every time you get selected over that a) this is a little
bump in the longer road of your rugby career, and b) someday, when you
stand there on the pitch after playing in the National Championship
Game and emerging victorious, the victory is going to all the sweeter
for this little bump.....

Take those words to heart and you won't have a problem....


'Saw


8.1710That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 16 1992 11:3332
Oops I did a cut and paste error.  I took something out.  The woman I
talked to is not my ex, she's someone else I talked to about Cyndy but
I cut that part out.  Does that make sense?  Cyndy was never a captain
of Beantown, she holds no offices...

So, basically, I had deleted a pronoun reference, "this same woman" meant
someone else, not Cyndy.

Anyways, I'm not sure how effective rucking over her would be.  She's got
4 inches and about 40lbs (of muscle) on me.  I think I will try to get in
the "other group" for contact drills.  A friend of mine has offered to run
Cyndy over in a Jeep, though,  I think that would work.

About Nationals, thanks for the encouragement.  I feel pretty good about how I 
will fare.  I think a few years ago this would have been a near-death experience
for me, but I am getting a little calmer in my old age and able to see things
more in perspective.  I keep reminding myself, we are not one of those teams
that only makes Nationals in their wildest dreams.  We go every year.  My
brother has promised me that he'll only get married once.  My sister is
already married.  My other sister is already married.  And divorced.  And
married,  And divorced....    So the future looks pretty secure.

'Saw, I know you  will believe me when I say I thought about it before making
an exclusive comment about women's rugby.  But it seemed based in fact.
I only know one gay male in rugby.  Not that there might not be more, but
I've never heard of any, through the gay community or the rugby community.
He doesn't play anymore, he's gone where old players go and is reffing.
I've never heard any of the guys complain about him being gay, but he, um,
shall we say, is not the best ref in the league and I have heard some comments
on that.  :^)

Rachael
8.1711CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 16 1992 11:4524
>Cyndy over in a Jeep, though,  I think that would work.


Jeep would work.  Bulldozer's probably better though.

>'Saw, I know you  will believe me when I say I thought about it before making
>an exclusive comment about women's rugby.  But it seemed based in fact.
>I only know one gay male in rugby.  Not that there might not be more, but
>I've never heard of any, through the gay community or the rugby community.
>He doesn't play anymore, he's gone where old players go and is reffing.
>I've never heard any of the guys complain about him being gay, but he, um,
>shall we say, is not the best ref in the league and I have heard some comments
>on that.  :^)

Rachael, 

I HAD to take the opportunity to yank your chain just a little 8^)

I've never heard of any gay male ruggers either, but it's always a 
possibility....


'Saw

8.1712IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomThu Jan 16 1992 12:119
    I hate the G&*(#mn Army!   (I can say that here.  Other times and
    places I bite my tongue.)
    
    My sweetie won't be able to make it tomorrow night.  :-(
    
    It's gonna be a great time anyway.
    
    A&W
8.1713VLAB::RIEURead his lips...Know new taxesThu Jan 16 1992 12:165
       You reminded me of M*A*S*H (the movie) Allison. Remember the scene
    where they're in Japan and the sarge in the jeep is driving them
    around? He keeps saying #$%&#Army every few seconds! One of my favorite
    movie scenes.
                                               Denny
8.1715BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 16 1992 12:2510
8.1716Jan. NERFU Board Meeting HighlightsCNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 16 1992 12:4659
    I attended my first NERFU board meeting last night.  They could learn
    something from Hartford's AGM as I didn't get home to Worcester from
    Acton until after midnight.  We did get a lot of good accomplished and
    didn't have to move too many things to next month's agenda.
    
    Some of the highlights:
    
    The Albany Knickerbockers have been granted membership in the New
    England Rugby Football Union.  Whether they will play in Div. I or II
    will be decided at the next board meeting in February.
    
    The rules for movement between the first and second division have been
    rewritten in order to remove the gray areas that have been present for
    at least the last 5 years.  Beginning with the Fall 1992 league season,
    the first place team in division II will have the option of moving to
    the first division displacing the last place team in that division. 
    Should the div. II champ decline to move up, the second place team in
    div. II can issue a challenge to the last place team in div. I.  A game
    will then be played in the spring before the NERFU Tournament at the
    home field of the div. I team with the winner going to div. I and the
    loser going to div. II.  Should the second place team in div. II
    decline the right to challenge, the right to challenge will pass down
    through the teams in div. II according to the order in which they
    finished the season.
    
    Until this time, there has been no written policy of what to do should
    the first place team in div. II elect not to go to div. I.  This has
    been handled arbitrarily in the past on a case by case basis.  This
    year the top two teams in div. II each decided not to move up.  Old
    Gold who finished third decided that they wanted to move up and should
    based on some decisions made in the past.  Amoskeag, the last place
    finisher in div. I felt they should not be displaced by a third place
    team from div. II, especially since they were not offered the option of
    moving up in 1989 when they finished 2nd to Worcester and Worcester
    declined to move up.  The board granted Old Gold the right to issue a
    challenge to Amoskeag for the right to play in div. I.
    
    A professional/graduate school division will be formed for the NERFU
    tournament in 1992.  If this is successful, a prof/grad division will
    be formed for the Fall 1992 season.  MIT and HBS will have the option
    to play in this division or continue to play in div. II.
    
    The actual league structure will hopefully be decided at the next board
    meeting.  One proposal is to form a 10 team first division by adding
    Albany and Old Gold to the division.  This would leave an 8 team second
    division.  If HBS and MIT opt to go to the newly formed grad/prof
    school division, that will leave 6 teams in div. II.  Albany requested
    to be placed in div. II so as not to appear they would be getting
    special treatment by being allowed to play in div. I in their first
    season of NERFU membership.  They have said they will play in which
    ever division the board decides is best.
    
    Rachael and 'Saw, I met teammates of yours.  Jan Rutkowski of Beantown
    is the Women's Coordinator.  Frank Craemer of Hartford is the
    Connecticut Director.  There are a couple of other women on the board,
    but I don't know which club they play for.  Betsey Kimball is the
    Secretary and Grace Collins is the treasurer.  There will be a board
    meeting in Hartford on June 10.  Perhaps that can be the date for our
    next get together.
8.1717CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 16 1992 12:5617
Frank Craemer is a good guy.  Very personable...


I don't like the rules of relegation.  Personally, I'd prefer the
Div II 1st place team either comes up, or not, and that's that.

If you finish 3rd or 4th in Division II, meet the last place team
on a day when they're devastated by injury or something, they could
come into the division and be real dogs.....


But, at least the plan is now written down....


Good work Mac!

'Saw
8.1718yawn....... ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsThu Jan 16 1992 13:031
    
8.1719CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 16 1992 13:3411
8.1720CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 16 1992 13:3722
|    I see what you're saying, but historically in both Div. I and Div. II,
|    there hasn't been much of a difference between the top 3 teams.  Many
|    times the division championship has been decided based on point
|    differential or been the result of 1 extra mark in the loss column. 
|    Considering that the regular season is only 8 games or so, that doesn't
|    leave alot of margin for error and a 1 game difference in the records
|    may not mean all that much.


That's a good point, Mac.

Bsides, I don't know many division II clubs that can field a 3rd side.
Hell, even most of the Met Union divisoin II clubs can't field a 3rd
side, despite being in Division I....


If Old Gold comes up, and we have to play them away again, I'll be
sorely pissed.  That'll be the third year in a row....8^(  (Well,
Amoskeag had their slot this year, and it was a longer, albeit
nicer trip)....

'Saw
8.1721CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 16 1992 13:538
8.1722Air MadgeEDUOZ::THURGARThu Jan 16 1992 20:121
    And I am leaving on a jet plane
8.1723CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 10:2612
>    was said last night, more and more Div. I clubs are having trouble
>    fielding three sides.


We had a legitimate 3rd side this year, however injuries on the 1st and
2nd side caused our 3rd side to be more ragtag that in Fall's past.

Boston has a legit 3rd side, but beyond that, I saw an awful lot of
A side guys getting a second game this fall....


'Saw
8.1724BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 17 1992 10:5111
OK OK  

In honor of the occaision I am wearing full Beantown regalia.  I've got
my jersey on, it's red and blue hoops.  Blue jeans, white sneakers with
little blue doo-dads on them, and red Beantown jacket.  If you can't see
these colors, either something is wrong with your TV, or we're not in the
restaurant, yet.
	The dog's all set for the night, I've got the directions, I have
money for the tolls on the way home...  And Madge will be here, right?

Rachael
8.1725CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 10:5812
>And Madge will be here, right?

Rach,

Bring the words to that chunder song, just in case Madge (crazy Aussie)
DOES show up!


Oh, btw, what are "doo-dads"?????  8^)


'Saw
8.1726Absolutely true!!!!!!!!!CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 17 1992 11:1944
    So last night while shopping I did my peeping Tom (aka mimiking 'Saw) 
    thing by pressing my face up against the window of a fitness club
    so I could watch the babes do their aerobics  ;^)
    Any way I observed some guy in a rugger outfit, complete with black
    tape on his ears and I immediately figgered out what sport he
    was in training for.
    I went into the club (partially to set a better look) and sauntered up
    to this rugby guy and started up a conversation.  "Play rugby?"
    "Yup".  
    "That's neat, who do you play for?"
    "Team in Hardford"
    "Name the Wanderers?" I asked.
    "Yep, how'd you guess?" he replied.
    "Well, I sort of know this guy who claims to be on the team, names
    Frank Way.  Ya know him?"
    
    "Frank WAy!!!!!! Sure I know him.  Tries real hard, a good sport and
    all that but Frank's got this physical problem, besides, he's a bit
    weird."
    
    "Whattya mean Frank's got a problem?" I replied.
    
    "Frank's a pretty slow runner."
    
    "Oh, I said, how slow is he?" I inquired.
    
    "Well, I'll give ya an example.  That should clarify it, no doubt."
    
    "Do you know what Frank says when he hitches a ride on a turtle?"
    
    
    
    
    		WHEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!
    
    
    
    
    ta boom!
    
    Kev
    ;^)
    
    
8.1727COBRA::BRYDIEHoward Roark laughed.Fri Jan 17 1992 11:2410
    
     I heard Frank and one of his co-workers were standing around when
    Frank spots a snail on the ground and stomps on it. The co-worker
    "What the hell did you do that for ?!?" Frank replies,
    
    
    
    " That bastard's been following me around all day !"
    
    Ba-doom
8.1728CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 11:327
Aw c'mon guys!

I'm not that SLOW.  I mean, I'm faster than Heavy D of the 
Manhatten rugby club 8^)


'Saw
8.1730CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 12:1518
>    #1- I'm a little tight on time today to search, so can someone please
>        mail me directions to tonight's brew ha-ha?  And, now that I know
>        how Rachael's dressing, I guess I won't be wearing my tux... :-)
    
I'll mail them to you.

>    #2- Last night at class, I noticed the guy in front of me was wearing
>        a sweatshirt with a million rips in it, and was labeled "Wesleyan
>        Rugby" (I am not making this up!) including an outline of a rugby 
>        ball.  Unfortunately, he bolted before I had a chance to inquire
>        about it, but I will the nexted time.  I did chuckle a few times
>        to myself though, think of this place, of course... :-)

If he is indeed a former Wesleyan rugger, ask him if he knows Kevin Sarr
or Joe Norton....
    
'sAw    

8.1731BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 17 1992 12:2316
Doo-dads, in this case, refer to the little bits of trim which indicate
the shoes are Saucony and spice them up a little.

The fitness story is pretty good except it's be more likely to happen behind
a tree...  We rarely have bathrooms at the practice field, let alone a club.
to dress in.

Can one of y'all bring a copy of rugby?  I'd like to see the photo in
non-xerox form.

Thanks,

Rugby

PS And Hawk, I am dressed up!  I consider anything with long sleeves to
be dressy, and if it's got buttons down the front, that's really formal.
8.1733CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 13:2431
>    Rachael, could you please remember to bring a copy of your Spring 
>    practice schedule with you tonight?
    
That is not that unusual, Hawk.

Many, many times during spring and fall season, this guy's prop butt
has seen the light of day in the parking lot by the Rock in Colt Park.

Probably the funniest night was late fall lasted year (1990).  It had
warmed up, and we had a brutal rainstorm, at practice.  I mean, it
was raining so hard the drops almost hurt, and to get a drink all you
had to do was open your mouth -- the water would run in, around your
mouthpiece and down your throat.

So, after practice, we're all totally soaked through to the bone (thank
God it was warm out).

So, in the parking lot at Colt Park, 35 guys nuded up at the back of
their cars and trucks as they took off their wet clothes, then walked
around, climbed into their cars and trucks to put on their dry clothes.

If there were any women around, I'll be they got an eyeful of all they
could handle....8^)


'Saw

PS  Got my Eagles jersey on today -- my red one.  White one came in the
    mail yesterday, but I chose red today....


8.1734QUASER::HUNTERSteelers To The Super Bowl In `93Fri Jan 17 1992 13:533
    I've been arrested and jailed for less than that...
    
    
8.1735CNTROL::CHILDSLOD faux-pas ChampionsFri Jan 17 1992 14:158
>>    I've been arrested and jailed for less than that...
    
  
 Wasn't the officer's fault he mistook your face for a MOON....

 ;^)<-many times over  

8.1736QUASER::HUNTERSteelers To The Super Bowl In `93Fri Jan 17 1992 14:226
    
     Set myself up like a 10 pin for that one...  Shouda known better
    with the likes of a Mikey Childs out there lurking in the conference.
    Actually, it was for....  Nahhhh...  I won't go into it.
    
    Big Game
8.1737CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 17 1992 14:273
    All of you noters who are coming tonight, feel free to tranlate all
    those moderator thank-yous and accolades into some pints of Guinness
    ;^)
8.1738Mucho :^)CARROL::LEFEBVREWatcher of the skiesFri Jan 17 1992 14:333
    Jack, they bust you for impersonating a male?
    
    Mark.
8.1740QUASER::HUNTERSteelers To The Super Bowl In `93Fri Jan 17 1992 14:443
    Mark... Thats a pretty cheepshot !
    
    BG
8.1741IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Jan 17 1992 15:078
    Just called O'Connor's.  They don't feel that we need a reservation 
    :-)
    
    See y'all at the bar.  I've got my big orange down parka,
    affectionately known as the pumpkin, with me.  Should make it easy for
    us to find each other.
    
    A&W
8.1743BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 17 1992 15:4618
Hawk,
	( >75 F ) + ( me not playing ) = jogbra & shorts.  I feel like having
to not only wear a shirt when it's hot out, but effectivey two is a tyranny of 
women that I will not be subjected to.  (Although I would never want to go
around topless, so give that up)  Maybe you should try to come to one of 
our multiple-game weekends when it gets warmer out.  

	I got over being shy in a locker room when I played hockey in school.
You smell too bad after hockey not to shower.  And I got over being shy
being in a jogbra in front of guys when I played rugby with the MIT men's
team, we all had to put on game jerseys and it's really no big deal.  I
figure that anybody who gets that excited about it, well, it might be
the closest they ever got to a girl and I don't mind doing someone that
favor.

:^)

Rachael
8.1744CARROL::LEFEBVREWatcher of the skiesFri Jan 17 1992 15:473
    Is that a cold shower I hear being turned on at TWO Building A?
    
    Mark.
8.1745CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 15:5022
Hawk,

We have no place to change.  If it's extremely cold (below 25 say)
I'll change in the front seat of the truck, but that's tough because
there is not much room.

So, we are all very discrete about it.  I personally, have all my
stuff ready to go before I take anything off.  I definitely have
my Lycra shorts ready.  Usually, I put on my jersey first, because
that has a long tail and covers most everything.  Then I stand behind
the door of the truck, drop trou' and quickly put on my lycra shorts.

After that, the regular shorts and I'm all set.

For games, it is a Wanderers rule that no lycra shorts can be worn.
In that case I usally come in sweats and quickly put on my shorts
before warmups, or come in my shorts, depending on weather.

Afterwards, it's into a pair of nice baggy Zubaz pants...8^)


'Saw
8.1746BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 17 1992 16:056
8.1747CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 17 1992 16:109
8.1748QUASER::HUNTERSteelers To The Super Bowl In `93Fri Jan 17 1992 16:223
    `Saw...  Lycra is for sissies.... ;^)
    
    BG
8.1750BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 17 1992 16:3712
Mac
	Perhaps I spoke too soon, but I'm not sure.  I know uniform colored
is better, though, and that it was to discourage boxers.  I used to wear
long boxers when I played in college.  I was bummed when I started playing
club and wasn't allowed anymore, but now I wouldn't do it if I could.  A
maturity thing, perhaps, or maybe I'm just getting even more conservative
in my old age.
	I thought it was a law at the club level as well, because none of
the (serious) clubs seem to do it, (except shorts colored, for injuries).
But maybe it's just an ethic.

Rachael
8.1751Animal house II ?????CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 17 1992 16:4511
    re: things flyin @ Hawk
    
    We planning on having a food fight too????????
    
    Since this is gonna be the only time thisted season that Saw and Mac
    gonna "play together", are hip boots also recommended?
    
    I will be,
    dipped in teflon so there's no _____ on me!
    Kev
    
8.1752CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 17 1992 16:5116
    As was clearly pointed out in the "Who can move to Div. I" fiasco,
    there is a lot of hearsay, recollection, and speculation in the NERFU
    laws.  What is written is very open to interpretation, hard to get
    ahold of, and seldom enforced.  I have a copy of the NERFU laws at home
    somewhere.  They were last published during the 1987-88 season.  There
    have been several changes made that really haven't been documented
    outside of the board and AGM meeting minutes.
    
    I do have a copy of the 1991-92 edition of the USARFU Handbook and Laws
    of the Game here in the office.  There is no mention in this book about
    prohibiting lycra (or any other type) of shorts underneath the rugby
    shorts.  Other than directives that effect player safety, the only
    regulation regarding what may be worn is this statement:  "All players
    are required to wear appropriate uniform and the referee has the power
    to decide whether non-compliance is dangerous".  The NERFU Collegiate
    Committee did deem that boxer shorts were inappropriate.
8.1753CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteFri Jan 17 1992 16:5316
BG --

Actually, those lycra shorts have saved my hamstrings numerous
times in practice.  What would probably be a pull without, seems
to be a treatable strain with them...

I love the extra support you get from them.

Why did I originally start wearing them?


Best way in the world to prevent Fat Boy Rub(tm).....

8^)
'Saw

8.1754Ouch !!! QUASER::HUNTERSteelers To The Super Bowl In `93Fri Jan 17 1992 17:289
    
     No Kidding...  Well at my young and studly age I don't have to worry
    about aches, pains and pulls.  I suppose if I could remember when the
    first lake froze (Like You, `Saw) then I'd probably have to wear
    support hose as well...   Have a Nice Day !!   ;^)
    
    HTH
    
    Big Game
8.1755IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Jan 17 1992 17:5810
    Hawk -
    
    I discard the orange parka when the temps exceed 50, or the wind chill
    is over about 40  :-).  For New England pitches, that means that I
    effectively wear it from about mid-October through mid-April -
    sometimes into May.  Then it lives in the trunk of my car, along with
    wool hat, mittens, and long johns, for the balance of the year.  It's
    my way of dealing with being a human ice cube :-)
    
    A&W
8.1756Ever heard of Maytag???????? ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollarsFri Jan 17 1992 18:3311
    A&W,
    
    Yecch!!!!  Doncha wash it?  PeeYoooo!!!!!
    
    I don't think I wanna party wif you
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    Mr_Clean_Kev
    
8.1757Turn Left where ?????EDUOZ::THURGARSun Jan 19 1992 20:4735
    Ok,
    
    There I was on the plane. A beautiful Qantas 747. In business class of
    course (we know how Digital take good care of there employees). Of
    course it was business - the Sports_91 Rugby note get together = real
    serious business. Saw the piolt on the way in and said to him: "Look,
    time is at a premium here, dont muck around, get this thing in gear,
    get out of here, turn left at the Sydney Harbour heads and get this
    bird to LA". He says "Yes Mr Madge" (first name basis with the pilot).
    
    So I decide to miss the inflight movie etc to catch a bit of a kip so
    as I am in good form for the get together/party. Next thing I know we
    have landed in LA. Then the troubles start. What do you mean I cant
    bring the Rugby World Cup into this country. Customs says "That is an
    illegal import, no way will we ever get that Cup in the USA (especially
    with the way the Eagles play)". I say "Believe it buddy - it is staying
    in Australia forever". Then they say that my school Rugby jersey is
    unsafe to bring into the country because of all the blood stains. I
    said "Look I play Rugby - give blood. Besides I havent played bball
    with Magic". Then they find out my name is Madge. And you know
    Madge/Magic pretty close sounding names. Another strike against me.
    Then they want to quarantine my boots (cleats as you call em). Foreign
    dirt. I say "Holy ground - dirt from the SCG". They say "No way". Then
    they saw these Zubaz pants that look like the American flag (A real hit
    'Saw everybody loves em - get me some more and I will pay you - you are
    a legend). They put me back on the plane saying something about
    desecrating the flag and how I should be shot.
    
    So I didnt quite get there.
    
    Besides the directions were lousy.
    
    Please fill me in on the goings on.
    
    Jet Lagged Madge 
8.1758CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteMon Jan 20 1992 10:2227
8.1759CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteMon Jan 20 1992 10:2326
Five Nations results:



<><><><><><><><>  T h e   V O G O N   N e w s   S e r v i c e  <><><><><><><><>

 Edition : 2496               Monday 20-Jan-1992            Circulation :  8093 


::: RUGBY UNION

    Five Nations Championship

    Ireland ................  15   Wales ............. 16
     Try: Wallace 48'               Try: Davies 68'
     Conversion: Keyes              Penalties: Jenkins 22',62',64'
     Penalties: Keyes 4', 8'        Drop goal: 38'

    
    Scotland ...............   7   England ........... 25
     Try: White 38'                 Tries: Underwood 27'
     Penalty: Hastings 4'                  Morris 78'
                                    Conversion: Webb 78'
                                    Penalties: Webb 10',19',51',59'
                                    Drop goal: Guscott 75'

8.1760BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jan 20 1992 10:5717
There was much electrical tape, for sure, and I got to take home all the
leftover tape!

I had a great time, got one new recruit for women's rugby (right 'Saw?),
ate till I was round (that was the original goal set up by me and Saw)...

Next time I'll bring the tape back and my cleats, just for you-know-who.

==========================================================================

Hey Mac, the thing about the shorts is a law, but maybe under the jurisdiction
of the Women's Committee or the National Committee.  Ask Jan about it next
time you see her.

Madge, I missed having you there.  

Rachael
8.1762CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jan 21 1992 18:5224
    Friday night was a great start to a great weekend.  It was nice seeing
    you all again and nice meeting Tommie (ISFH) Brydie for the first time. 
    I'm glad you liked my choice of venue.
    
    The weekend was wrapped up with the WRFC Annual General Meeting.  True
    to form, it was another marathon affair, but not as long as some.  It
    was scheduled to start at 1 pm, but didn't get rolling until well past
    1:30.  The owner of Stoney O'Brien's put on some food for us at half
    time which was most appreciated and the meeting was over around 6ish
    with the post-meeting wrapup going on well past 7.  Once again I was
    defeated by my ability to do a job well.  I was defeated in my attempt
    to regain the presidency, lost to the incumbant for treasurer, and ran
    uncontested for Club Secretary/Newsletter Editor.  If I had kept my
    trap shut, I could have been B-side captain, but in the end the club
    did what I felt was correct and postponed the election until the spring
    season.  They just wouldn't give me the satisfaction of being right and
    had to decide this while I was out of the room while they were
    discussing the candidates.
    
    The new club captain is a winger!  Even if he wasn't I think we'd still
    have to kill him because he thinks that the coach's training sessions
    are too easy.  That's because he spent too much time practicing with
    the backs!  First training session is this Thursday night at the
    Belmont Hill School gym in Worcester.
8.1763CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteTue Jan 21 1992 19:1819
>    The new club captain is a winger!  Even if he wasn't I think we'd still
>    have to kill him because he thinks that the coach's training sessions
>    are too easy.  That's because he spent too much time practicing with
>    the backs!  First training session is this Thursday night at the
>    Belmont Hill School gym in Worcester.


If your vice-captain is a forward, then do this:

	Take the Cayman trip.  Pay off one of the other guys to
	break the Captain's leg.

	Vice Captain runs practice.....


Worked for us last year 8^)


'Saw
8.1764BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Jan 22 1992 11:1812
Oh, Mac, you are going to do some running in practice!   But just think how
good you'll feel when it's over.  I am eating brownies as I write this,
seems sacreligious one way or another.  

This rugby stuff seems to be having other advantages.  I was in Lechmere's
this week, and this woman tried very hard to pick me up.  I'm sure it was
because of my rugby jacket.  Usually, even gay women can't tell that I'm gay
without talking to me, since, as one enlightened guy I work with put it,
I'm not ugly.  She was cute but not my type, and so forward that she
frigtened me.  It was a riot, though.

Rachael
8.1765CAMONE::WAYNude up and noteWed Jan 22 1992 11:3332
>Oh, Mac, you are going to do some running in practice!   But just think how
>good you'll feel when it's over.  I am eating brownies as I write this,
>seems sacreligious one way or another.  

No, no.  Brownies are okay.  SEe, they have Milk, Eggs, Flour... which
are ALL good for you.  8^)


Running?  What does a prop need to run for?  A prop needs to scrum,
then lumber along to a ruck or maul where he or she ;^) roots around
in the mud for while, then lumber off to the next one.  Then you scrum
some more....



With that said, on a serious note, I saw the coolest ruck in the 
England France game a week or so ago.   The two English props and
a flanker I think, managed to join up BEFORE going into the ruck.
The looked like a tidal wave cleaning out the French opposition!

>This rugby stuff seems to be having other advantages.  I was in Lechmere's
>this week, and this woman tried very hard to pick me up.  I'm sure it was
>because of my rugby jacket.  Usually, even gay women can't tell that I'm gay
>without talking to me, since, as one enlightened guy I work with put it,
>I'm not ugly.  She was cute but not my type, and so forward that she
>frigtened me.  It was a riot, though.


Rachael, I'm rolling.  This story is just too funny.....  


'Saw
8.1766Pickup JacketEDUOZ::THURGARWed Jan 22 1992 20:1310
    Rachael,
    
    I cant wait for my jacket so women (hopefully not men) will pick me up
    in department stores.
    
    How can somebody tell that you are gay, by looking at you or by talking
    to you (unless you tell then you are gay). Unless you have "I am Gay"
    tatooed across your forehead 8^). ?
    
    Madge (on one leg) 
8.1767IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomWed Jan 22 1992 21:4216
    Madge -
    
    Since it's late and Rachel probably ain't in just now, I'll take a stab
    at it.
    
    Beantown specifically, and women's rugby in general, have a reputation
    for having a very high proportion of the team be gay.  The woman trying
    to pick Rachel up probably knew this, and figured that her odds of
    success were improved 'cause Rachel was a member of this club.
    
    Hopefully that reputation won't extend to Oz, and you will be seen as a
    guy who appreciates athletic women - who will then try to pick you up.
    
    :-)
    
    A&W
8.1768More questionsEDUOZ::THURGARThu Jan 23 1992 00:0214
    A&W,
    
    Does that infer that the mens Beantown team has a high proportion of
    gays ? 8^)
    
    I wonder if that extends to women's rugby on an international level as
    well.?
    
    Makes you wonder about the proportion of homosexual men who play rugby,
    but never publicise this fact.
    
    At the moment I will talk about anything to stop doing CDD prep
    
    Madge
8.1769BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 23 1992 11:1013
	Saw is just about right.  Only qualifier being that it's club rugby
we're talking about, college rugby can be a completely different story.  

	Maybe the reputation would be good if it extends to Oz, then all the
chicks will be so impressed that I, who _clearly_ hate all men, sent Madge
a jacket.  :^)  He'll get walks on water status.

	Madge, I'll have to send you info on the other ways (besides playing
club rugby) that one could guess that a particular femme might be gay.  
Otherwise, Mac the mod will get upset...  or so I would assume from the dinner 
conversation.    

Rachael
8.1770CAMONE::WAYNude up and NoteThu Jan 23 1992 11:4315
>	Madge, I'll have to send you info on the other ways (besides playing
>club rugby) that one could guess that a particular femme might be gay.  
>Otherwise, Mac the mod will get upset...  or so I would assume from the dinner 
>conversation.    

Well, Rach, you showed me one way at dinner.  You could put that one
in here....8^)



Madge, you are going to be quite the fashion plate, between the jacket,
the pants, and the bandana (if I can find one)....


'Saw
8.1771IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomThu Jan 23 1992 15:548
    re .1768
    
    Ummmm - there *isn't* a men's Beantown club.  :-)  I believe that
    Boston, Beacon Hill, and Old Gold are the Boston-based men's club.
    
    But it is one of those things that makes you go "hmmmmm", isn't it?
    
    A&W
8.1772CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 23 1992 16:002
    A&W, you forgot Mystic River, Charles River (kind of), Harvard Business
    School, and MIT.
8.1773IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomThu Jan 23 1992 16:109
    Not really - I thought about it, but they don't play in *Boston*. 
    Mystic River is in Medford, Charles River is reputed to party in
    Maynard, which means they must play in the suburbs someplace.  MIT and
    Harvard B-School are a kinda special case, especially since you guys
    set up a special division for 'em.  And I think MIT is Cambridge.
    
    So maybe I should have included HBS in my list of Boston men's teams.
    
    :-)   A&W
8.1774CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 23 1992 16:172
    I'll give you that, A&W, but in this Bostonocentric Universe we live
    in, anything East of 495 these days is Boston based.
8.1775CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Thu Jan 23 1992 16:1815
>    Not really - I thought about it, but they don't play in *Boston*. 
>    Mystic River is in Medford, Charles River is reputed to party in
>    Maynard, which means they must play in the suburbs someplace.  MIT and
>    Harvard B-School are a kinda special case, especially since you guys
>    set up a special division for 'em.  And I think MIT is Cambridge.
    
Mystic River plays in Malden.  I hate that pitch because we've never
won there.  Well, C side did, but that don't count.

Charles River plays their home games (or did in the 1990 season) at
Hanscom AFB, probably because they merged wif one of da Air Force clubs.


Hal Tried Hard(tm),
'Saw
8.1776IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomThu Jan 23 1992 16:429
    I will admit to being geographically challenged regarding the north-of-
    Boston suburbs.  Medford, Malden, and Melrose all sort of blur in my
    brain (sorry Ninj  :-) ).  And Hanscom Field is partly in Lexington and
    partly in some other town (Arlington? Acton?).
    
    And 'Saw - it ain't the pitch, it's the team.  I don't think you guys
    have played them at the Rock the last coupla years, have you?
    
    A&W
8.1777FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Jan 23 1992 16:509
    Hanscom Field is in Lexington, Bedford and Lincoln.  Doesn't quite make
    it to Concord but it comes close.
    
    Medford, Malden and Melrose are slightly out of my old stomping
    grounds.  Peabody is where I grew up and am most familiar with Danvers
    (since I went to school there), Salem, Lynn, Swampscott, Beverly,
    Marblehead, Saugus and even Gloucester.
    
    John
8.1778FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Jan 23 1992 17:016
    Oh, and with both parents, all grandparents and most of my aunts and
    uncles from Chelsea, I have good knowledge of Chelsea, East Boston and
    Reveeah.  Malden was a city we passed through on our way to Chelsea. 
    We sort of bypassed Melrose and Meffa.
    
    John
8.1779CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Thu Jan 23 1992 17:2529
John --

I used to consult for the City of Peabody.

Peeb-dy as it was called by folks up there.....


A&W, 

Yeah, we played Mystics on The Rock in the fall of 1990.  We tied
them 6-6 in the biggest mud bath I've ever been involved in.  I was
still getting mud out of body orifices after THREE showers!

We had them 6-3, and dominated for 60 of the 80 minutes.  A late
penalty allowed them to tie.  That tie cost us first place.  If we'd
have beaten them, we'd have been 5-1 and they'd have been 5-1, and a 
first place tie.  Instead we went to 4-1-1 and they to 5-0-1.
They finished 6-0-1 and we finished 5-1-1 with a solid lock on second
place.

But, a few weeks later we lost to Old Blue on that field, 21-17 in 
the Northeast Tournament.


We get Mystics on The Rock next fall too.  We're gonna beat 'em.
It will be great to beat the National Champs  8^)


'Saw
8.1781Anyone remember the RNO Cafe in EB?CTHQ1::LEARYLook what they've done to my song,MawThu Jan 23 1992 17:335
    Don't forget Victor's and the Shipwreck Lounge in Reveeah, Hawk.
    And Ninj, steer clear of the Pony Lounge in Easta Bost.
    
    MikeL
    
8.1782BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 23 1992 19:5512
oops, I screwed up again, it was Alison, not Saw who put in the afore-
mentioned accurate reply.  Sorry, A&W.

'Saw, I totally forgot about my little friend at dinner.  I didn't point
her out to the whole crowd, but there was the BIGGEST DYKE sitting at
the table next to us.  Was I the only one who noticed?   Biggest in the
sense of she was so obvious, she wasn't really all that large.  When I
saw her I just turned to 'Saw and told him "I've got company".  I think the
woman next to her was her girlfriend, too, but I'm not sure.  She didn't 
peg me, hooker that I was that night.

Rachael
8.1783BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 23 1992 19:576
For the sake of Madge, my hooker comment refers to the fact that
I was seated between two props, them being male props and me looking
fairly straight and everybody else looking completely straight, she 
didn't even notice me.

Rachael
8.1784My place next timeEDUOZ::THURGARThu Jan 23 1992 20:226
    I am really annoyed that I missed dinner. It sounds like you had so
    much fun. Next time we organise something a little bit closer to my
    home (an away game for you people). I know a number of good places in
    Sydney (is that OK Mac)? Just a suggestion.
    
    Madge
8.1785CNTROL::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 23 1992 20:246
8.1786IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomThu Jan 23 1992 21:0915
    I wanna go with the Wanderers on that trip too.  Don't know if I'll be
    able to swing it.  :-(  The reasons aren't financial or having
    sufficient vacation time, they relate to
    the political difficulties of taking along supporters who a) don't play
    and b) aren't related to anyone who plays/has played/is a member of the
    club.
    
    'Saw - Does Hartford do a social membership?  Would taking out such a
    membership assist in getting approval to go along on the trip?
    
    
    Hmmmm - I think I'm up to about 4 clubs that I ought to be a social
    member of.  Kev's "gifts" to me are more and more "rite on, bebee".
    
    A&W
8.1787EDUOZ::THURGARThu Jan 23 1992 21:495
    The more the merrier.
    Come on Rachael, 'Saw, Kev, Mac, A&W and everybody else.
    Get down here.
    
    Madge
8.1788CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 24 1992 10:2425
>    'Saw - Does Hartford do a social membership?  Would taking out such a
>    membership assist in getting approval to go along on the trip?
    
Unfortunately, no, they don't.

The only way you can be a member of the Wanderers is if you are a playing
member and pay your $100 per season, OR if you play for the Old Boys
and pay your $75 per season.  (Old Boys are less because they play less
games).


If the Wanderers DON'T get enough players committed to going by April 15,
they will, I believe, open it up to other players on other clubs.


They do allow S.Os to go, but even some of the members frown upon that.
At the meeting, when Bob mentioned that this tour was open to wives and
girlfriends, a fair portion of the meeting voiced displeasure at that.
But, the retort was that it was a long tour (perhaps 18 days).


Unfortunately, dems da facks...


'Saw
8.1789CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 24 1992 10:259
Madge....


Why not split the difference....

Dinner in Hawaii next time????


'Saw
8.1791We ain't rabbits no more :*( :*( :*(CST17::FARLEYSon, you can make hundreds o' dollars...Fri Jan 24 1992 12:2510
    Besides, after ya been married for a bunch o years, 18 day's
    is nothing new!!!!
    
    That should only be of concern to newlyweds and single folk!
    
    ;^)
    
    Hal Tried Hard,
    Kev + 19 years
    
8.1792CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 24 1992 12:5826
>    Now, why in the hail would anyone with a SO want to take said SO on an
>    awesome party trip like the Aussie tour?  And, what the hail kind of
>    justification is the fact that it's going to be an 18 day trip?  Heck,
>    I might begin to start to think about missing my SO (gawd, I hate that
>    acronyn & term!) on the 18th day, before the noontime keg is tapped,
>    that is...  :-)
    
Mainly because when you come right down to it, there are two kinds of
ruggers.  Older ruggers, who aren't just out of college, and who enjoy
partying, but not the kind where you drink till you puke, 16 out of the
18 days.  Younger ruggers, just out of college tend to want to do the 
drink till you puke thing.

Personally, I, as an older person, look at it more as a vacation where 
I happen to be playing rugby, than a rugby tour where I have to party 
and drink every night.


That being the situation, a lot of the "older" (relative term) guys
tend to want to bring wives and/or girlfriends...


Hope that explains it.....


'Saw
8.1793IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Jan 24 1992 15:4631
    I keep remembering the tour that Mystic River hosted a club from
    Traedegar, Wales.  It was a big deal for them, the first time they'd
    done a tour to the States.  The visitors stayed in team members homes
    for about 4 or 5 days, and over at least two games - one with Mystics
    and the other with some other Boston area team.  We also took them up
    to the Portland Tournament.  They'd never played the weekend tournament
    style of rugby that we do.  
    
    This was back 13 years ago, the week before my ex and I split up, so 
    some of the memories are fuzzy.  We had two gentlemen stay with us who 
    were supporters only.  They had never played for the team.  But they 
    *were* active supporting members of the club, they could pay the 
    freight, they went to every game, and we all had a ball including them 
    in our activities.  I vividly remember trying to explain a Red Sox
    game to them, which we went to just the three of us.  (They thought it
    was kinda dull  :-). )  I still have and wear the club sweater that
    they gave me as they left.
    
    I've never had the chance to go on tour with a club.  I've never had a
    chance to go to Australia.  I'd love to do both, and they're on my list
    of things to do "someday".  I know that women on rugby tours can work -
    a number of wives and girlfriends had gone on the Mystic's tour of the
    Soviet Union the year before my ex started playing for them without any
    problems.  I know that a tour doesn't have to be a nightly drunk and
    can have sight-seeing space if you choose to use it.  I know that
    having non-players along can be a positive - it means the visitors have
    a cheering section too!
    
    Just seems a shame, somehow.....
    
    A&W
8.1794BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 24 1992 16:2032
Alison, you're absolutely right, women can go on tour, and they don't even
have to work!  Beantown toured England and Wales, about 2 years ago, we didn't
work at all.  We played 5 games, toured, made up silly rules, and drank a lot.
I, along with a few of my teammates, went to France with MIT men my
senior year.  Again, I didn't have to work.  I played, toured, and drank.
Also got very sick for a day or so, missed a match.

And on a serious note, Hawk, I'm sorry, please don't take it personaly
or anything but it is my role as a lesbian to hate all men.  And, like
the guy here at work told me, I really need to cut my hair and gain
some serious weight.  I think that if society has spent all this work and
thousands of years defining our roles for us, the least we can do is
follow them.  I'm sure you understand.

Now, on a really serious note, I mean it this time, I went and practiced
with the MIT guys last night.  Two of my teammates also came with.  We had
a wonderful time, ran around, played touch, did a few drills, then went
out to the bar with them after.  My dog was a super girl last night.
I tied her up in sight of us and she didn't bark at all.  When tied, she 
often barks and cries if she can see me, so I have to  hide her.  But that
makes me nervous, since I can't see her, either.  Later I brought her to
the bar (it's a school bar) and she was so good, she wandered around a
little, vacumned the rug, then went to sleep at my feet.

All three of us had a better time practicing with MIT then we do with our
own team indoors.  Two reasons, one is much larger space, so more fun.  Also,
there's no pressure and no competition for us, so it's a big difference.
I love playing on a good team, but things like this make me realize how
hard we are all competing.  It doesn't seem like much when you're in it,
but a contrast really tells a lot.

Rachael
8.1795CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 24 1992 16:447
8.1796CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 24 1992 16:489
8.1797DECWET::METZGER/Slasher welshes on a bet?Fri Jan 24 1992 17:297
If I was going to Autralia for 18 days I couldn't imagine not taking my wife.

AM I unusual in that I enjoy my wife's company?


Metz
8.1799dittoFRETZ::HEISERimagination &gt; knowledgeFri Jan 24 1992 17:505
    I feel the same as Metz.  I bring my wife with whenever possible, even
    on business trips.  Afterall, part of the reason we married them is
    because we want to be with them.
    
    Mike
8.1800CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 24 1992 18:0318
Well,  I don't make the rules.

Personally, I'd prefer to have wives and girlfriends along.  I was just
telling what happened at the meeting.

I know that there's still a lot of grousing and some resentment at the
last long overseas tour that wives and girlfriends went.  I personally
don't know what the problems, if any, because I wasn't a member of the
club at the time.

I can say, off the record, that Hartford tends to have certain cliques, 
and I think that tempers a lot of the things that they do....  But 
if anyone asks, I never said that....


Oh well.....

'Saw
8.1801This discussion always hits a nerve with meCRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 24 1992 18:0521
    Sorry, Hawk, it's just that I have to go through this with teammates
    every time a rugby tour comes up.  My wife has been on every tour I've
    been on.  She has had a great time every time, despite some attempts by
    others to make her feel very unwelcome.  I agree with everything you
    said.  She & I should have the right to determine whether or not both
    of us will go on the trip.  Others should not have the right to do so. 
    There were times on the tours where she went her way (usually to bed
    ;^) ) and I went mine.
    
    I think that part of the problem with women on tour (speaking from the
    point of view of a men's rugby club, Rachael) stems from the ties to
    the UK.  Folks in Europe get a lot more vacation then those of us in
    the US.  As such for a guy to take a week or two away from the family
    is no big deal since he has 2 or 3 more weeks of opportunity to take a
    vacation with the family.  We don't have that luxury in the US.  I used
    all of the vacation I had on my first tour to the UK.  If my wife
    didn't accompany me on the trip, we wouldn't have been able to take a
    vacation together for at least another 6 months.  The ones I see that
    raise the biggest objections to having women come along are usually
    British ex-pats or confirmed bachelors.  Both usually cite rugby
    traditions and other such rubbish.
8.1802RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOR U pre-mousse or post mousse?Fri Jan 24 1992 18:0714
    I agree with Metz.  I didn't like having my wife around, I never would
    have gotten married.
    
    As for Australia - great place.  Everyone should go there at least
    once.   We had a hell of a time.  18 days is a decent amount time.  We
    had 25.    You need even more time then that.
    
    The Great Barrier Reef should not be missed.  SNorkeling there was
    fantastic.  Go to both the outer and inner reefs to get a good cross
    section of aquatic life.    Go to Tasmania.   Drive to the western part
    of Tassie.  Go on a beach that's 35 KM long and no one else is there
    (that's what we found!)
    
    JD
8.1803Hey Mike, did you and Metz marry sisters in a package deal?NAC::G_WAUGAMANFri Jan 24 1992 18:0712
    I'd bring my wife 'cuz she's good company and very good about letting
    me do what I want (within reason) without any hassles at all.  Plus,
    she's an excellent designated driver and would make sure I got home
    sometime before the next afternoon.  And this is after seven years of
    marriage now.  ;-)
    
    Believe me, I've seen the other side with some friends and other
    acquaintances and I'm very grateful...
    
    glenn
    
8.1805CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 24 1992 18:1325
I think Mac has hit the nail on the head.

The division I see is between the older, more settled guys (married or
with long term girlfriends) and the younger, "wilder" guys, usually not
long out of college, who wanna grab life by the horns.

The difference I have found is that the older guys are content to let the
younger guys do what they want, but the opposite isn't always true...


I'm not using younger/older so much in a chronological age sense, but
in a maturity sense.

I'm past the point in my life where I have to get drunk, or find amusement
in seeing others get drunk.  I'll drink to be social, but to get falling
down all over myself puking up green bile drunk isn't something I enjoy
any more.

And as I have gotten older the hangovers have gotten WORSE.


I'm all for wives/girlfriends....


'Saw
8.1806BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 24 1992 19:288
'Saw,
	I wanna go to Austrailia and snorkle and meet Madge.  Wanna go
on a date?

Rachael

PS  I want to say , you husband types, including Hawk, are so sweet 
with what you've been writing.
8.1807CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 24 1992 19:5414
>'Saw,
>	I wanna go to Austrailia and snorkle and meet Madge.  Wanna go
>on a date?
>
>Rachael


I might just have to become a Morman, to accomodate all the women that
want to go on this tour....

hahahahah..

'Saw

8.1808FRETZ::HEISERimagination &gt; knowledgeFri Jan 24 1992 20:122
    On the other hand, I once heard boxers abstain while in training
    because it makes the knees weak.  Ruggers should probably do the same.
8.1809CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 24 1992 20:135
8.1810yeah they struck out on the field too!FRETZ::HEISERimagination &gt; knowledgeFri Jan 24 1992 20:191
    
8.1811ROYALT::ASHEPop Pop goes the weasel, the weasel...Fri Jan 24 1992 20:201
    How many championships have the Vikings won?
8.1812matched pair -> weak knee & weak brain=normal4them!CSTEAM::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Sat Jan 25 1992 01:281
    
8.1813does this get me in trouble? hope not.....CSTEAM::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Sat Jan 25 1992 01:3918
    
    Too Bad MikeC didn't make the "award ceremony!"   :*(
    
    Rach, don't cut your hair. fwiw, I kinda liked it although I do
    question the fashion taste of whomever/whatever designed that
    jacket/coat you were wearing.
    
    Color schemes=yecch!
    
    We won't go into the (purple?) triangle pointed towards your Derry-aire
    too much.
    
    I'll go along with the a couple o' more lbs. however.....
    
    large -> :^)
    
    Kev
    
8.1814BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jan 27 1992 10:5313
Kev, you're hardly one to talk about adding a few pounds.  And it's a 
blue rectangle, not a  purple triangle.  I think you're allowing your
jealousy to control your writing when you try to discredit it.  You just 
wish you had a little flap to sit on.

All this talk of abstaining yet bringing wimmen points to only one
thing, 'Saw...

We start real practices Feb.  Oh boy.  I can't wait to run a thousand 
stairs.  Supposedly our Tuesday gym is even smaller than the Thursday
one, which is really small.

Rachael
8.1815they still sell Geranimals too!!!!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Jan 27 1992 12:4912
    Rach,
    
    Ya see, if I did add a a few pounds, then I'd be forced to buy
    my clothes in the Adult section instead of the children's section and
    I couldn't afford to pay for the extra material!  ;^)
    
    My life is to shop till I drop in the Children's section!!!!!
    
    <grins>
    
    Kev
    
8.1816BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jan 27 1992 12:598
	I can buy boys shoes.  Saved me about $20 on my hockey skates.  
Boys pants are a big laugh though.

	Somebody here who I don't even know except by sight dropped in
when I was talking to my manager and handed me a program to the 
Wales-Ireland match, Jan 18.  I am so psyched!  

Rachael
8.1817IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomMon Jan 27 1992 18:1814
    I watched the Superbowl at the Providence Rugby Club's facility
    yesterday.  Interesting phenomena, but of the players there, somewhere
    between 60% and 80% were forwards.  Seems we here in Sports are not the
    only ones to have forwards be the party-hardy folks, while the backs 
    wimp out and don't participate in the "game" much.  [Lots 'n lots o'
    :-) .]  At any rate, it was a good party, great atmosphere in which to
    watch the game.
    
    Oh yeah, my honey got elected secretary of PRFC.  Takes another night
    out of the week that we can't get together.  :-(  The good news is that
    the club needs the new blood in its officers, and a lot of his ideas
    are getting adopted.
    
    A&W 
8.1818BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jan 27 1992 18:5325
Alison, 
	I didn't realize that blood that age constitued "new blood".  :^)

By the way...
	There's a horribly misleading article in today's Herald with a picture
of my ex.  He's a member of a men's club which was protesting Sunday.  They
are formed to fight violence against women, and were having awareness rallies
yesterday because Superbowl Sunday and monday are the busiest days of the
year for shelters for battered women.  The Herald article made out like
they were protesting team sports, it was so slanted.  They didn't mention
in their photo captain that one of the people shown played high school
hockey and football, college (U.Penn) hockey, more college hockey (MIT)
and rugby, not to mention coaching college hockey for four years.   (nudge
nudge wink wink.  women's hockey, that's how we met.)  There was a radio
show this morning too, which made the men in the group out to be real
pansies.   In reality, they have no problem with team sports.  They have
a problem with men getting violent and beating women, and it just so 
happens that the SuperBowl correlates to an increase in this.

Rachael

PS  I wouldn't do the rep of the forwards too much good.  I was invited to
two superbowl parties, but I decided to stay home and finish up some of
my moving in instead...  I went through my kitchen stuff, and had a really
nice time.  
8.1819EDUOZ::THURGARMon Jan 27 1992 19:3321
    What ever happened to equal rights ? If your wife/girlfriend or
    husband/boyfriend wants to go on tour , let them. As long as they pay
    there way. This is yet another form of discrimination that I am
    against. I fought this battle with my cricket club. The decision to
    go should be your partners, they know what they are getting themselves
    in for (or should have a good idea).
    
    What does SO stand for ?
    
    Please bring your wives and girlfriends with you.
    
    Some other more unusual things to do in Australia:
    
    The Blue Mountains near Sydney
    The Twelve Apostles out of Melbourne.
    
    I can think of lots of other things to do if you like.
    
    'Saw and Rachael - what is this about dating Hmmmmmmmmm.
    
    Madge
8.1820CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jan 27 1992 19:4313
8.1821ISOEDUOZ::THURGARMon Jan 27 1992 20:545
    Therefore does 
    
    ISO stand for insignificant other (many smileys).
    
    Madge
8.1822CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Tue Jan 28 1992 10:3313
>    ISO stand for insignificant other (many smileys).
>    
>    Madge


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.....


In some cases, and in one case that I can think of personally, 
most DEFINITELY!


'Saw
8.1823Good deals avaliable on all sorts of shoes.BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 30 1992 14:0924
I just went to Joe Lynch's sporting goods in Norton, and got a pair 
of Umbro screw-in (soccer) cleats and a pair of Reebok ERS running shoes
for $55.  He will give anyone who is a friend of a Beantown player a
good discount.  He doesn't carry high-top cleats, but has shoes for indoor
and outdoor soccer, baseball, football, running, etc.  Especially ASICs in 
the running shoes.  If you have something particular in mind you can call
ahead and tell him your shoe size, and he'll tell you if he has anything
so you don't drive for nothing.  He'll also order shoes for you, with  about
a three day turnaround.  Call/write me for the number if you're interested.
I know you big props don't wear soccer shoes though.  Just us tiny little
flankers.  But maybe you want a nice pair of hightops to lift in or run
in the gym in.

Tonight's my last night to practice with MIT.  I'll be sorry to stop, I
really enjoy their practices.  Plus I get invited to nice parties so their
captain can spill beer all down my pants.  He doesn't remember, of course.
I thought it was a riot, I can't remember the last time a male spilled
beer on me.  It brought me way back.

Tuesday we start official Beantown practices, in the two tiniest gyms
in New England.  Well, actually, in only one of them, we go in the other
one on Thursday.

Rachael
8.1824CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 30 1992 15:1417
    Worcester started practicing last week.  I'm glad our coach said he's
    going to take it easy on us for a few weeks - he almost killed me last
    week ;^).
    
    Rachael, something caught my eye while going through the NERFU
    directory.  When and why did the MIT Men's RFC start calling themselves
    the Rucking Beavers?
    
    I spoke with John Logan, NERFU president, last night.  Sounds like the
    league structure will be settled well before the NERFU Tournament in
    May.  This makes sense since that might not allow enough time for
    scheduling if we wait that long to determine the leagues.  What looks
    like may happen is MIT and HBS will move from Div.II into a
    Graduate/Professional School League.  Albany will move into Div.II. 
    This will put 8 teams in Div.I, 8 teams in Div.II, and 7 in the
    Grad/Prof School Division and make scheduling a heck of a lot easier
    and maintain good competion levels in the division.
8.1825Rucking Beavers DOES have a nice ring to it! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Thu Jan 30 1992 15:211
    
8.1826BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jan 30 1992 16:128
They've always been the Beavers.  Rucking Beavers is probably just a formal
name.  The school mascot is a beaver, because it is industrious, does 
engineering stuff, and is nocturnal.  Plus some other reasons which I forget.
Most of the other teams refer to themselves as the Engineers.  

In light of recent personnel memos, that's all I'll say on that.

Rachael
8.1827CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jan 30 1992 16:2810
8.1828BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jan 31 1992 11:1222
8.1829CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 31 1992 11:4016
>e to the u du dx
>e to the x dx
>cos sec tan sin (that's cosine secant tangent sine, for you non-nerds)
>3.14159
>integral radical u dv
>slipstick sliderule MIT!!!

Gee, and I thought we were being sophisticated at Central when we
cheered:

	Pursue them, pursue them, make the relinquish the spheroid....



(sigh)
'Saw_just_another_music_major....
8.1830CRLPS::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Jan 31 1992 15:173
    Well, I won't be playing rugby in the islands.  Worcester couldn't get
    enough people together for the Cayman trip.  We'll be going back to
    Washington, D.C. for the St.Patrick's Day Tournament on Mar.14&15.
8.1831CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Jan 31 1992 17:1321
Whoa, bummer.

But hey, Mac, look at it this way:

	First, you don't have to worry about having to scrum with
	a sunburn.

	Second, you won't have to worry about hangovers from the
	potent island rum.

	Third, you won't have to worry about clearning Customs with
	all the rum you bring back.

	Fourth, you won't have to worry about a homer ref looking for
	the opportunity to help the home team out, mon.

	Fifth, there's always nexted year.


hth,
'Saw
8.1832Arrest that school!ROYALT::ASHEHis name is Honest Abe &amp; he's here to say...Fri Jan 31 1992 20:1720
>e to the u du dx
>e to the x dx
>cos sec tan sin (that's cosine secant tangent sine, for you non-nerds)
>3.14159
>integral radical u dv
>slipstick sliderule MIT!!!
    
    
    No way, that's stolen from RPI... just the last 2 lines are different
    and should read...
    
    square root, cube root log of pi...
    dis-integrate them, RPI....
    
    or e to the x dx dy
    dis-integreate them, RPI...
    
    proven to go back into at least the early 60's...
    
8.1833BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Feb 03 1992 13:554
	I got it from my mom and dad, from their day, you'll have to go back a 
little farther.  

Rachael
8.1834CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Mon Feb 03 1992 18:298
I'm seriously thinking of taking the spring season off.

I can't exactly say why, just that it seems like it might be the right
thing to do.  I guess I have a couple more weeks to make up my mind, but
right now I'm leaning towards spending my spring lifting weights and 
running.

'Saw
8.1835I may need a friend on the sidelinesIAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomMon Feb 03 1992 20:268
    'Saw -
    
    *DON'T DO IT*  
    
    You need the comraderie of the team.  You need to get out and beat on
    an opposition.  
    
    A&W
8.1836Dont stop till you get enoughEDUOZ::THURGARMon Feb 03 1992 22:188
    'Saw,
    
    Stop now and you may never start again. I would like to quit work and
    just train  run and play basketball for evere.
    
    Madge
    (in All Black territory - and am I telling them who won the World Cup
    ????).
8.1837BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Feb 04 1992 11:203
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo.......................

Rachael
8.1838FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Tue Feb 04 1992 11:254
    'Saw, don't quit for the Spring.  You cain work on conditioning all you
    want but the only way to improve as a player is to play.
    
    John
8.1839CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Tue Feb 04 1992 11:3727
Bless me ruggers, for I have sinned......


Actually, I'll tell you what was motivating my thoughts of taking some 
time off.

Last spring, we practiced the entire month of February, outside, in the
parking lot at Bulkley HS in Hartford.  Aside from the minor hamstring
pull, the thing I literally could not endure was that from the first
practice, until I went to the Bahamas, my joints killed me.

Knees, shoulders, knuckles.  They hurt all the time.  


So, I was thinking about spending Feb and March like that this year,
and I said, NO WAY.


But, late yesterday, when I got the mail, I got some good news.
We're practicing INSIDE.  Biggest difference between the new captain
and old is that the new captain got us a gym!

In about two weeks, look for me to be complaining about running 
stadium stairs....8^)


'Saw
8.1840CNTROL::CHILDSRodney Dangerfields &gt;&gt; The Dream TeamTue Feb 04 1992 12:357
 besides Saw now that you're working out all the time lifting and running your
 joints are in better shape and will not hurt as much from the Rugby workouts.

 Besides could you actually live without the Drink ups???

 ;^)
8.1841Calling Doc Manyzero's - work on 'Saw pleezze????CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Tue Feb 04 1992 12:441
    
8.1842CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Tue Feb 04 1992 12:5518
Mikey --

Actually, the drink ups are the worst part of my "game".  I'm finding that
I can't put down the suds like I used to.

Actually, I think what it is is that I do my best beer drinking when I'm
not totally exhausted.


I'll definitely be playing now that I found practice is indoors for a while.
It will probably be mostly running, which means I can continue with
my squats in the gym also.

Once we start scrumming, I'll have to put the squats on hold till the
end of the season....


'Saw
8.1843T'weren't autographedd though! :*(CSTEAM::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 00:3762
    
    (I suppose this is the best way to start it)
    
    To Whom it may concern,    ;^)
    
    Thank you for lighting up my life and enlightening my conscienseness
    with your little packy in today's interoffice snail.  My life wouldn't
    be complete without Volume 13 - Issue 1 of the WRFC Newletter!
    
    Why it's just *CHOCKED* full of neat and interesting thangs!!!!
    
    Hey!! Didja'll know that the WRFC is gonna buy a block o' tickets for a
    Sox game on Patriots day?????  Betcha didn't.....
    
    Here's a little gem I know life would be incomplete without;
    from the "1991 Rugby Hostel Review" section,
    
    "...MacNeal's Mexican Mirage - A lovely place that offers a Tex-Mex
    breakfast.  Outdoor basketball court with glass back boards.  Nintendo,
    no Spice Channel."
    
    Sorta makes ya wonder, don't it??????  When was the last time *WE*
    (Loonies & RON's) were asked to partake in a lovely Tex-Mex Breakfast
    there??????
    
    Anybody else get the impression somebody wimped out and was skeered?
    ;^)
    
    But, as they say, "better late than never...", there was also a nice
    prose entry titled "A Visit From Saint Nicky".....  sorry sportsters
    but in February, his memory is refreshed only by the Visa, Discover and
    American Express bills!  
    
    It also had a neat (illegally copied I'll bet) extract from the Sidney
    Morning Herald writen by a Peter Fitzsimmons) about explaining rugby to
    Rip Van Winkle.
    
    I am not going to type it all in here since my fingers will get real
    tired 1/2 way through so anybody who wants a copy, semd me your fax #
    and I'll do it the lazy way!  ;^)
    
    Funny thing though, Greg (remember him???) saw me studiously reading
    the thing and he asked me, "Dad, what's rugby?"
    
    I said, "Well Greg, that's not an easy question to answer because
    rugby is soo many things......it's a way of life, it's a way to give
    blood, it's a way to get all muddy and sweaty and most of all, it's a
    way to get yerself kilt!"
    
    "Dad?"
    
    "Yes Greg?"
    
    
    
    
    "Let's go and play Nintendo..."
    
    
    
    
    
8.1844BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 07 1992 11:5430
Kev you are an irreverent man fer sure.  Poor editor in chief of the WRFC 
newsletter, you picked an ingrate to bless with your publication.  :^)
(I put in a stupid smiley cause Hawk can never tell when I'm serious or
not)

I went to my first official practice last night.  We were indoors and
nobody showed up with the balls, so we just did fitness for two hours.
We ran stairs, then warmed up, then ran laps in the gym where we kept
having to sprint.  We did high knees, butt kicks, majorettes (kind of
like a goose step with more of a kick out), lunges, fast feet in every
direction, jumps, frog leaps, backwards from leaps, grapevines, shuffles
to both sides...  We did what my roommate called "playing reindeer games".
As in the games all the other reindeer wouldn't let rudolph play.  She
had me laughing so hard I could barely move.  We tucked a (try not to get
too excited, for the low class audience we have here) sock hanging out the back 
of our shorts and our partner had 30 seconds to try and grab it as many times
as possible.  Another one, 30 seconds of one person trying to tap the other
on the back of the ankle.  30 seconds in pushup position with one person
trying to knock out the hands of the other.  Several repeats of each, of
course.  Running stations, a minute at each of situps, wall jumps, pushups,
and jumping over pylons.  Two reps.  More running.  It was hellacious, I
loved it.  I was so inspired that when I got home I took my dog out for 
a run, too, about a mile and a half.  My roommate declined.

I am so psyched for this season.  Turns out we're not going to San Diego.
Big relief budget-wise, although I would have loved to go.  Tickets were 
going to cost over $300, though.  We will be going to Chicago, DC, and
Minnesota, though, so I'll have plenty of tickets to charge.

Rachael
8.1845CAM3::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Feb 07 1992 12:0948
>I went to my first official practice last night.  We were indoors and
>nobody showed up with the balls, so we just did fitness for two hours.
>We ran stairs, then warmed up, then ran laps in the gym where we kept
>having to sprint.  We did high knees, butt kicks, majorettes (kind of
>like a goose step with more of a kick out), lunges, fast feet in every
>direction, jumps, frog leaps, backwards from leaps, grapevines, shuffles
>to both sides...  We did what my roommate called "playing reindeer games".
>As in the games all the other reindeer wouldn't let rudolph play.  She
>had me laughing so hard I could barely move.  We tucked a (try not to get
>too excited, for the low class audience we have here) sock hanging out the back 
>of our shorts and our partner had 30 seconds to try and grab it as many times
>as possible.  Another one, 30 seconds of one person trying to tap the other
>on the back of the ankle.  30 seconds in pushup position with one person
>trying to knock out the hands of the other.  Several repeats of each, of
>course.  Running stations, a minute at each of situps, wall jumps, pushups,
>and jumping over pylons.  Two reps.  More running.  It was hellacious, I
>loved it.  I was so inspired that when I got home I took my dog out for 
>a run, too, about a mile and a half.  My roommate declined.


Rachael, why do I feel that the person who ran your practice was
R. Lee Ermey, straight out of "Full Metal Jacket".


They're bringing me oxygen right now, and all I did was READ the damn
thing.....


>I went to my first official practice last night.  We were indoors and
>nobody showed up with the balls, so we just did fitness for two hours.

I'm really tempted.  But no...


>We ran stairs, then warmed up, then ran laps in the gym where we kept
>having to sprint.  We did high knees, butt kicks, majorettes (kind of

Okay.  Stairs would have done me in.  Warm up?  No, take this guy 
to the hospital....


Phew!

8^)

'Saw


8.184658205::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Feb 07 1992 12:367
    It is becoming painfully clear why Beantown is the perennial champion
    of women's rugby.  THEY EARN IT!  (Picture a big, older guy, looking
    over his glasses straight at you  (-: )
    
    I hurt just *thinking* about this.  
    
    A&W
8.1847CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 12:4716
    I know this really belongs in another note but for dramatic
    effect I'd rather put it here in da rugger note.
    
    
    Howcome God made man first?
    
    
    
    'cause he didn't want any advice on how to do it!!!!!
    
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    Pig_Man!!!!!!!
    
8.1848CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Feb 07 1992 12:558
>    I know this really belongs in another note but for dramatic
>    effect I'd rather put it here in da rugger note.
>    Howcome God made man first?
>    'cause he didn't want any advice on how to do it!!!!!
    
Kev,

So what's the point?
8.1849the point is..... PIG_MAN LIVES!!!!!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 12:561
    
8.1850BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 07 1992 13:0220
Kev,
	I think it's quite clear from the results that _he_ didn't get any
advice!  Be that as it may...


'Saw and Alison, all I can do is blush and have a silly smile.  "perrenial
champion" happens to be my favorite thing in the entire world to hear about
Beantown, and coming from an expert, too!  

Our fitness coach is an ex-flanker for the team.  A perrenial Eagle in her
day.  Watching her play was like watching a tiger chase hedgehogs.  After
practice, she told us we were in the worst shape she'd seen the team in
for three years, but that we were trying hard and she appreciated that.
She does just the right mix all season of goading us and praising us.
I remember last Spring, Kerri finally telling us before Nationals that
we were in great shape, on her scale.  Hearing that from her makes you
feel like you could just walk right out and stop a train by hand.  I am so
excited that she is joining Kevin and ME in coaching us this Spring.

Rachael
8.1851yer too easy !!!!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 13:0610
    Good one Rach!  I knew I'd get ya to take the bait!  You've been
    too quiet here for the last(ed) few days.
    
    Share something with me though, did somebody forget to tell me that
    *I'm* coaching ya'll???????  
    
    deen to wonk,
    I remain,
    the_ORIGINAL_Kev!
    
8.1852BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 07 1992 13:458
Kevin,
	What else could I say?  I had to say it!  I've been quiet because
of the latest corporate scolding on notes.  And will continue to stay a tad
more subdued in notes, although this note is the calmer of the two I follow.

Yours corporately,

Rachael
8.1853PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 07 1992 15:2726
8.1854CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Feb 07 1992 15:3627
>    
>    If the US is going to better their standings in the world rugby
>    community we must start teaching our younguns about the game as early
>    as possible.  Kids start playing rugby around age 8 in the rugby
>    superpower nations.


A rugger from New York Rugby Club had an interesting idea, that I
hope he gets to try out.

His solution to help with the gang situation in inner cities is
to start teaching little kids rugby from age 6 or so.

He said "What do you need for rugby?  A ball, and maybe some cleats".
And a place to play.


The team concepts that rugby stresses (especially succesful rugby)
would help young people immensely. It would also blow off some
of the stress that life imposes on our youngsters these days.

I'm not gonna be evangelistic about it, but it sounds like an idea
worth trying...


'SAw

8.1855Betcha the USoA has world class Nintendo players NOW! Rugby?????CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 16:181
    
8.1856FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Feb 07 1992 16:208
    With the cutbacks in sports in our high schools, I think rugby clubs
    could get a good start on future recruits by talking to high school
    football coaches to get kids to play rugby.  The only sport that really
    helps football players is track, and I think a sport like rugby with
    its hitting and emphasis on conditioning would be a great complement to
    high school football.
    
    John
8.1857PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 07 1992 16:518
    Absolutley, John.  Rugby might also be a viable alternative for those
    schools who cannot afford a football program.  The equipment and
    officials costs are much, much lower than that for football.  As an
    aside, the WRFC has been helping Sports Alive raise money for the
    Worcester Public school system.  Football players are expected to pay
    $100 each season to play (it's $50/player/sport for other sports). 
    Sports Alive hopes to raise $50K to distribute among families who can't
    afford to pay these fees.
8.1858FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Feb 07 1992 16:524
    I'm thinking of rugby not only as an alternative to football but as a
    spring time sport for high school football players.
    
    John
8.1859PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 07 1992 16:554
    I know you were, John.  I was just presenting another scenario.
    
    There are a few rogue coaches out there who do encourage their football
    players to play rugby.  They are very few and far between though.
8.1860I dunno, high school rugby a little too risky, IMHO...SASE::SZABOIt's the New Mother Nature taking overFri Feb 07 1992 17:1820
    Don't forget about liabilities though.  I'd think that high school
    level rugby would be considered a higher injury risk than high school
    football.  The issue of improper coaching has been a key factor in many
    serious football injuries.  If you can't get enough properly trained
    football coaches, where do you think you'll find the fundamentally
    sound rugby coaches?
    
    Another thing is, if I were a parent of a football star, a senior,
    already guaranteed a full football scholarship at Bigtime U, do you
    think I'd encourage my boy to play rugby in the Spring, for
    conditioning?
    
    Sorry if I sound negative on this, but I think they're real scenarios.
    
    Now, maybe starting-out high school rugby on an intramural level just
    might be the way to go.  Or maybe a little rucking in gym class instead
    of some stupid co-ed field hockey...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.1861CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Feb 07 1992 17:2517
That's really strange that this topic came up.

Big Pete, one of the guys I work out with, plays center for the
New England Crusaders, a minor league football team.

He was trying to recruit me to play OL the other night.


I have enough problems trying to become a good rugger, never mind trying
to learn how to pull and lead a sweep.

(But what a woodie I get when I think of sweeping around the end, and 
getting a leetle old CB in my sights, and whamming him onto his butt
and into nexted week, while my FB powers through that hole)...


'Saw
8.1862FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Feb 07 1992 17:2930
    I wasn't thinking about high schools starting rugby teams.  I was
    thinking about the clubs going out and recruiting high school football
    players to play rugby during the spring and summer seasons.  I still
    think it's a great complement to high school football and the clubs
    should encourage these kids to continue playing football in the fall.
    
    I'm also not thinking about going after the superstar high school
    players either.  There are lots of marginal high school players who
    will never be good enough to go on and play college ball.  What I'm
    thinking though is for them to start playing in high school, go off to
    college and play for their college club if there is one, they can play
    for their home club in the summer (sevens, tens) or come home on
    weekends if they're close enough and there is no college club and then
    they can play after they get out of college.
    
    I'm not a member of a club so I can take a more global view - the more
    kids who play rugby, the better off rugby is as a whole - even if they
    end up never playing rugby for the club that recruited them.
    
    As far as injuries go, after watching rugby since last spring I feel
    there's far less risk of injury in playing rugby than there is in
    football.  The amount of padding and helmeting on football players
    makes them too brave and they don't respect each other for it - in
    other words, there's a headhunting element that's not there in rugby
    and the techniques in rugby promote safety.  It's the same theory as
    with hockey facemasks - there are more high sticks with the facemask
    because kids don't learn to respect the stick as a dangerous weapon.
    
    John
    
8.1863CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Feb 07 1992 17:3015
>    Don't forget about liabilities though.  I'd think that high school
>    level rugby would be considered a higher injury risk than high school
>    football.  The issue of improper coaching has been a key factor in many
>    serious football injuries.  If you can't get enough properly trained
>    football coaches, where do you think you'll find the fundamentally
>    sound rugby coaches?

It's safer.  Mac has put in some injury statistics.  Yeah, so you get
black eyes, and perhaps some cuts, but there are far, far fewer 
knee injuries.

    
'Saw
    

8.1864Lies!!! damn lies!!!!! play Nintendo instead!!!!!!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 18:201
    
8.1865SASE::SZABOIt's the New Mother Nature taking overFri Feb 07 1992 18:236
    Well, I may be very wrong then, when it comes to injuries- I haven't
    seen any statistics.  For some reason though, I keep conjuring up this
    image of cleats all over my face...
    
    Hawk
    
8.1866I'm a visionary too!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 07 1992 18:507
    That's funny Hawk!  *I* keep seeing your dentures splattered
    all over the field like chicklets!!!!!
    
    ;*)
    
    Kev
    
8.1867GENRAL::WADEWhose idea was it to hang these ferns?Fri Feb 07 1992 19:006
    
    	Don't get too big of a woodie dreamin' about pasting some
    	poor CB.  Some of us were pretty ornery and welcomed the
    	challenge! :*)
    
    	Claybroon (ex CB)
8.1868Nintendo Is Alot Like Rugby, A Girly Mon Sport !!QUASER::HUNTERTwo JaKes... Your Worst NightmareFri Feb 07 1992 19:211
    
8.186958205::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Feb 07 1992 19:4117
    The liability insurance costs for rugby are lower than they are for
    football.  There's no spearing in rugby  :-) and the tackling
    techniques and laws around tackling promote safer play.  As far as
    cleats in the face, it's no worse in the maul than it would be in the
    line, as far as I can see.
    
    It does need to be age-group segregated for high-schoolers, however. 
    My son pointed this out to me when he met my friend on the Providence
    club.  Basically, the 49-year-old would break the 18-year-old in little
    pieces on a tackle :-).  It's a difference in bulk, muscle mass, and
    understanding of the physics of a tackle.
    
    But there's an awful lot to recommend the sport to those youngsters who
    enjoy beating on each other.  Channels a lot of aggression in socially
    acceptable ways while teaching some real good values in the process.
    
    A&W
8.1870CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Fri Feb 07 1992 20:2048
>    	Don't get too big of a woodie dreamin' about pasting some
>    	poor CB.  Some of us were pretty ornery and welcomed the
>    	challenge! :*)
>    
>    	Claybroon (ex CB)


Get outta my way, leetle main, my FB is coming through.  If you gets outta
my way, I will not hurt you.  If you get in my way, you gonna be a 
hurtin' puppy....8^)


Best way I heard it put was like this:


		And then the cornerback plays matador to the
		charging bull of a pulling guard...


'Saw


PS  What A&W said was correct.  The laws around tackling are pretty
    strict, and believe me, you DON'T wanna spear anyone in rugby.

    Cleats and stuff happen, but that's just cuts and bruises, nothing
    major.  

    Teeth?  Wear a mouthguard.  I have only played ONCE without a mouthguard
    and I would never do it again.

    Dangerous?  No.  I don't even wear a cup when I play.

    In rugby, the name of the game is ball possession.  Most of the time
    when you are about to get tackled, you try and turn, to take the
    hit on your back, and get your body between the opponent and the ball.
    This allows you to either ruck or maul properly.  In fact, sometimes
    it hurts more MAKING the tackle, if the ball carrier is savvy and
    give you a forearm as you hit him.

    There is no blocking.  That's called obstruction, and results in
    a penalty.

    




8.1871Heck - it ain't even a_olympic sportRIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOU of W Huskies=fraud chickens!Fri Feb 07 1992 20:5311
    Of course, if rugby had the nubmers and the popularity of football, I'm
    certain the injury stats would go up.  I remember when soccer made the
    same claim - but as popularity has skyrocketed, so have injury rates.
    
    Of course, we cain rest assured rugby will never attain that status. 
    Not enough yuppie rugby-jersey material in the world to clothe all them
    wannabe's from other sports~!
    
    ~/~
    
    JD
8.1872o-linemen=fresh meat for CB's!!!GENRAL::WADEWhose idea was it to hang these ferns?Fri Feb 07 1992 21:298
>		And then the cornerback plays matador to the
>		charging bull of a pulling guard...
    
    	Ever see what happens in a bullfight? :^)
    
    	And besides, I said *some* of us.  That doesn't mean me! :*)
    
    	Claybroon
8.1873Spelling Lesson60528::THURGARSun Feb 09 1992 19:1711
    Kev,
    
    Oh PIG_MAN_ORIGINAL_WHO_CANNOT_SPELL
    
    Sydney not Sidney.
    
    Rugby at High School is fine. It is done in New Zealand, Australia and
    England etc. No wonder we are the powers of international rugby. To
    improve your standard you have to start at a younger age.
    
    Madge (The Educator)
8.1874I can also tell the future60528::THURGARMon Feb 10 1992 00:225
    As well as being an educator, I am also psychic (read 8.779)
    
    Lots of smilies
    
    Madge
8.1875CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Mon Feb 10 1992 10:5419
Rugby was an Olympic Sport.  In fact, the US won the last gold medal
awarded for it, in 1924.

There are over 3500 men's clubs in the US, and over 1500 college clubs.
I have to apologize for not having figures for women's rugby, but maybe
Rachael could provide those.   Those figures do not include national level.


Injuries in rugby are different overall than football.  You don't see
as many knee injuries for example.

Madge hit a nail on the head.  In Australia, New Zealand and the British isles
little kids are brought up on rugby.  In NZ, you won't see basketball
backboards in the back yard, but goal posts, and the kids can kick.

It's quite something.....


'Saw
8.1876ANGLIN::SHAUGHNESSYJohn (Big Bad John)Mon Feb 10 1992 15:085
    >It's quite something.
    
    Hey Frank, you're not going teabag on us are ya?!
    
    MrT
8.1877Anchors a-weigh, my boys, anchors a-weighRUGBY1::wayA single-minded purposeMon Feb 10 1992 17:4620
I've always loved Scottish and British things (in that order 8^))

Some of their expressions are pretty neat, and stuff, but no 
matter how you cut it, I'm still an American.  Baseball stirs me
as much as a good rugby match.


I like to see how different folks in the world live, and the
thought of dozens of houses in a New Zealand neighborhood with
goal-posts in the back make me smile...


By the way, I made oatcakes yesterday afternoon (oot-caykes) as the
Scots would call them.   They go best with Ale I found out...


'Saw


PS  Practice starts tomorrow night at 8....
8.1878I hate it when they do that!!!!!!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Feb 10 1992 18:007
    'Saw,
    
    Do I have to redefine ya in my login.com since you have a new
    node?
    
    Keve
    
8.1879RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Mon Feb 10 1992 18:3915
No, not really.

RUGBY1 is my risc-ultrix box, and I don't get
much mail on it.  I just wanted the ability to
use NOTES.

Actually, this notes application is pretty
cool, since it's all MOTIF.   When I note
from CAM I never use windows notes.....


If CAM isn't up, you can always send me mail
here on rugby1....

'Saw
8.1880Set Margin bell <ON> pleeezzzeeee!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Feb 10 1992 18:565
    Well, I certainly hope thatwhen you are doing windows
    you remember to hit the return key ~72 characters.  I
    HATE those little diamondy-thangs!!!!!
    
    
8.1881RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Mon Feb 10 1992 19:1013
This is a pretty decent windows implementation.

The information on it says it's all rudimentary and stuff,
but down at the bottom here is a little button that
says "Wrap Text".  

I haven't gotten near the margin on this guy (it's a fairly large
window) so I haven't had to wrap the text yet.

Pretty handy though....


'Saw
8.1882This Note Is A lot Like Rugby !!QUASER::HUNTERTwo JaKes... Your Worst NightmareMon Feb 10 1992 21:241
    
8.1883BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Feb 11 1992 12:1535
My high school had a rugby team.  It was pretty popular.  I didn't follow it
though.  In fact, I never even saw my high school play football.  I meant to
before I graduated, but didn't get around to it.  (WWHS in Maryland)
	
I remember hearing about women's rugby when I was in high school.  I worked
in a deli in the District with some guys who played for American University.
They told me there was women's rugby but the women who played were all huge
(ie ugly), had short hair and were "you know".  I thought, "oh, that doesn't
sound like something I'd be interested in".  ha ha ha ha ha.  Also reminds
me of when I quit crew and went out for rugby, my crew coach told me she
thought I wouldn't like it because I didn't have the killer instinct and
was the wrong sexual preference.  HA HA HA HA HA.  Probably the strongest
point in my game is aggression...


But, anyways, we would not, as a club, want a high school female to
play with us.  Nothing quite like taking someone underage across state lines
and getting them drunk, not to mention injured.  We've had underage people
on the team go to parties with us and say they're not going to drink, but
they lie.  We also discourage college players from playing with us if their
college has a team, or if they live near another college they could play
for.  (The rule aren't as tight for the women's colleges in the B division)
We think it is detrimental to the development of the sport to lure the college
players away from the college game.  Not to mention the fact that we are too
expensive and travel too much for a student, they would have a hard time 
getting a lot out of playing with us.

Good luck at practice, Saw.  Hey, I met a guy this weekend who played a season
for the Wanderers and knew you.  His name is Jack, I think he played center
and wing.  He's pretty young, played for Burlington and/or Vermont.  He
said he got put right into some A games, I think it was last Spring.  Fiance
named Brandy.  He was really nice.  He's not playing now though, because he's
trying to get a PhD.

Rachael
8.1884RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Tue Feb 11 1992 13:3619
Cool.

Yeah, Jack is a GREAT guy.  He's into biology and stuff, and the night
I had to do parking lot duty with him he was catching all these bugs
and stuff and he was explaining them biologically to me.

Brandy is a sweetheart.  She plays #8 for Hartford Rose, but as you may
have guessed she's of a different sexual preference than most women ruggers.


I'm just going to go to practice tonight and do whatever it is we have
to do.  I have no idea -- we've got a new captain and that's always 
scary.  You never know if the guy is a Mengele disciple or not.


I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes...


'Saw
8.1885PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Feb 11 1992 21:2334
>    Don't forget about liabilities though.  I'd think that high school
>    level rugby would be considered a higher injury risk than high school
>    football.  The issue of improper coaching has been a key factor in many
>    serious football injuries.  If you can't get enough properly trained
>    football coaches, where do you think you'll find the fundamentally
>    sound rugby coaches?
    
    Studies have shown that rugby is no more dangerous than football and
    may be less dangerous.  Proper coaching is indeed key.  Currently the
    high school coaches are being drawn from the club ranks.  A
    semi-retired member of the WRFC is coaching the team at St. Peter
    Marion HS in Worcester.  The bigger problem these days is referees.  I
    think we need to do the same things that the other high school athletic
    programs do to get their refs, but that's another issue.
    
>    Another thing is, if I were a parent of a football star, a senior,
>    already guaranteed a full football scholarship at Bigtime U, do you
>    think I'd encourage my boy to play rugby in the Spring, for
>    conditioning?
    
    Some college programs at somewhat Bigtime Universities are giving the
    OK to play rugby in the spring.  If parents are going to keep their
    kids from playing rugby, they should also take away those skis during
    Christmas vacation.
    
>    Now, maybe starting-out high school rugby on an intramural level just
>    might be the way to go.  Or maybe a little rucking in gym class instead
>    of some stupid co-ed field hockey...  :-)    
    
    Out of the mouths of babes...
    
    As a matter of fact, some of my teammates in college ran a rugby gym
    class at a local elementary school.  They followed the principles of
    the New Zealand Youth Leagues and also used flags instead of tackling.
8.1886PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Feb 11 1992 21:266
>Big Pete, one of the guys I work out with, plays center for the
>New England Crusaders, a minor league football team.
    
    We share our practice field at times with the Worcester minor league
    football team (The Tigers?).  They just stand in awe while watching us
    practice and call us crazy...
8.1887PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Feb 11 1992 21:3218
>    I wasn't thinking about high schools starting rugby teams.  I was
>    thinking about the clubs going out and recruiting high school football
>    players to play rugby during the spring and summer seasons.  
    
    That's kind of what we'll be doing in Worcester.  St. Peter Marion
    didn't have quite enough players on their own last year so the coach is
    going to recruiting at the other high schools in town.  Since the
    schools themselves aren't that interested in getting programs going
    (although SPM did supply uniforms last year) this is about the only way
    we'll get it off the ground.
    
    There are some problems with this approach that come up because of the
    fact that these kinds are younger, smaller, and not fully developed. 
    They need to be worked to be worked as their own group for most of the
    drills.  There's also the time factor.  The best time for the kids and
    their parents is after school.  The best time for the club is after
    work.  None of these are insurmountable but they need to be taken into
    account.
8.1888PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Feb 11 1992 21:4017
>    Of course, if rugby had the nubmers and the popularity of football, I'm
>    certain the injury stats would go up.  I remember when soccer made the
>    same claim - but as popularity has skyrocketed, so have injury rates.
    
    Are you really talking about a rate, JD or the total numbers.  I'd be
    surprised if the rates (injuries/game or injuries/100 players) have
    gone up.  Are you lumping in soccer supporter injuries ;^).  Worldwide,
    rugby has a much higher popularity than (American) football.  Some of
    the injury information I've seen has been based on an international
    study.
    
>                   -< Heck - it ain't even a_olympic sport >-
    
    It used to be.  Wanna know who holds the only 2 gold medals ever
    issued?  The US and the Soviets at one time were pushing to get rugby
    back into the Olympics.  The problems is, the International Rugby Board
    doesn't want to relinquish any "power" to the IOC.
8.1889"It's a GREAT day for rugby!"|RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Wed Feb 12 1992 11:0648
Many thoughts on the last few:


Re Big Pete and football:

	I explained to Pete the other night some of the rugby terms
	and concepts.  He had not realized that real tackling goes
	on.  He thought that you just went for the ball.  I explained
	that the rules around tackling were that you must wrap and
	that you can't tackle around the head.  He was in awe....


Re rugby and youngsters:

	That's the time to do it.  Plus, the coolest part about rugby
	for little kids is this (and it's something I know *WELL*)

	On a 15s side, there is a position for EVERYONE.  If you have
	a short little peanut of a kid, that's the hooker.  You got
	that chunky kid with a crew cut and a big self-conscious smile,
	there's your tighthead.   


	With rugby in gym class, you're not going to get that "I got picked
	last syndrome" that you get with basketball or kickball.  I was
	one of those kids that always got picked last, because I was a 
	stocky fellow (I believe the term back then was husky).  I was
	not FAT, but I was solid and slow as a rock warming in the sun.

	But there is not one rugger alive who possesses 4.5 speed and
	plays wing who doesn't really appreciate the big slow cauliflowered
	ear prop who will ruck the living sh*t out of the other team
	once the aforementioned winger has been tackled.

	Those are the kinds of things little tykes can learn from rugby.
	Yes, the fitness, and yes the skills that will eventually make
	the US one of the upper echelon clubs, but more importantly these
	kids will learn:

		- to function as part of a team
		- to value ALL the other shapes and sizes of kids
		- to have FUN



Guess I have to get out of the pulpit now....8^)

'Saw
8.1890RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Wed Feb 12 1992 11:2388
8.1891BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Feb 12 1992 11:4817
Sounds like a great practice there, Saw.  Rugby is like life, in that if you
can survive it, you will be fit enough.  :^)  We had another practice like
Thursday's, except it felt easier.  I don't know if it was or not.  I had a 
great practice, I ran well and did well in most things except pushups, which
I am abysmal at for right now.  

It looks like Chicago will be a really fun trip.  We're getting hosted by 
Chicago, which means we'll have relatively few costs beyond our airfare, 
which will be really nice.  No rental cars, no hotels, and we'll probably
be fed a lot, too.  We're leaving Thursday night, and we'll be taken around
on Friday.  Then an A and a B game on both Saturday and Sunday.

I don't know if I mentioned it within the last few minutes, but I am so
psyched for this season!!  Saw, I'm glad you are going to be playing after
all.

Rachael
8.1892RUGBY1::wayIt's only a flesh wound!Wed Feb 12 1992 12:0126
>Sounds like a great practice there, Saw.  Rugby is like life, in that if you
>can survive it, you will be fit enough.  :^)  

Well, it's funny, because my goals this season are so small.  I'm not thinking
about games, I'm not thinking about playing.  My one goal is to improve
my fitness.


While I probably should have been running over the break, I didn't.  But
I think that the squats I did have really served me well.  I pushed myself
to the limit last night (in the suicides, when I was finished, I was
seeing "stars" and felt REALLY lightheaded).   I don't care if I'm not
selected, I just want to try to give 100% in the drills for practice.


And I want to try to keep on lifting, and not scale back.  Don't know if
I can do that, but I'm gonna try.


Pushups :== bench press and shoulder dumbell press.  Work those in the gym
and see if your pushups don't EXPLODE...


8^)

'Saw
8.1893BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Feb 12 1992 13:5720
cross-posted in the rugby notesfile.

The US Women's Eagles were honored last Friday at a reception given by
Barbara Bush.  The reception was in honor of women's sports in general,
with the US rugby team and possibly the US women's soccer team (also won
World Cup last year) as the spotlight.  Apparently they stood with
Barbara Bush while she was speaking to the rest of the room.

Fourteen of the Eagles were able to attend, including six of my teammates.
My coach, who also coached the Eagles from their inception (I think) through
their World Cup victory, was also present.  He is Kevin O'Brien from Cardiff,
for you UK types.

This is the first time any rugby players have been honored as such in the
White House.

Of course there was no news coverage of it that I saw, but if I get any,
I'll type it in.

Rachael
8.1894SASE::SZABOIt's the New Mother Nature taking overThu Feb 13 1992 14:4516
    Just a comment on Mac's reply a few back about taking away the ski's
    from the high school football stars (ie. skiing being more an injury
    risk than Spring rugby).
    
    Interesting point.  Someone recently mentioned to me how she and her
     basketball teammates in high school and college refused to ski because
    they were afraid that they'd get an injury that could easily end their
    season.  Made me think since my daughter's so into basketball, and she
    skiis(sp?).  But then, she's also becoming a very good piano player,
    thanks to 4 years of hard work and my $8K investment, and playing hoops
    where finger injuries are common could easily disrupt the piano
    playing.  I guess my point is that you really can't worry about things
    to the point where you wind up doing nothing...
    
    Hawk
    
8.1895RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Thu Feb 13 1992 15:194
One of our best locks is out for the season...  Why?  Skiing injury.


'Saw
8.1896CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Thu Feb 13 1992 15:292
    Skiing is a lot like rugby (and more that you'll ever believe!)
    
8.1897RUGBY1::wayCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Thu Feb 13 1992 16:2913
"Skiing is stupid if you're a rugger"

			- Brad Esthus


I have never seen a more pained guy.  I saw him in the gym last night,
and I said "Bull, you missed a good practice."  He said "Dude, I did something
stupid."

Oh well, better the spring season to miss than the fall....


'Saw
8.1898MCIS1::DHAMELForgot to cut my imbecilical cordThu Feb 13 1992 19:346
    
    'Saw, today is the anniversary of your P-name.  So what the hell does 
    it mean????
    
    Dickstah
    
8.1899CNTROL::CHILDSbig imagination, better than real lifeThu Feb 13 1992 19:496
 Dickstah, must have been the first organized Rugby game or the birth of
 Ray Handley's offensive technique...

 I know both are very dear to Saw's heart....

8.1900Massacre at Glencoe, February 13, 1692CAMONE::WAYCuimhnich, 13 February 1692Thu Feb 13 1992 20:1133
Actually, I was going to put a note into the Junk NOtes file about it.


Here's the story behind 13 February 1692, Three Hundred Years ago today.


	In the early morning of the 13th of February, 1692, government
	troops, under the command of Campbell of Glenlyon, turned on 
	their hosts and murdered them in their beds, men, women, and
	children, in a brutal massacre that violated the code of the
	Highlands and shocked the world.  Actually, this was not
	so much a reprisal of Campbells against their ancient 
	enemies, the MacDonalds, as it was a politically motivated action
	by Dalrymple, Master of Stair, and endorsed by Campbell of
	Breadalbane.


Three hundred years ago today was the Massacre of Glencoe.  I forget all
of the political details, but I could bring them in and print them.  What
did happen was that the MacDonald's offered their hospitality, and in 
return they got murdered.  Of course, not too many folks liked the
Campbells anyway.

My father's ancestry is of Clan Donald, and the Glencoe massacre always
makes one pause.

The word Cuimhnich is Gaelic for "remember".


Rugby started at Rugby school two hundred years later....8^)


'Saw
8.1901Speed killsEDUOZ::THURGARThu Feb 13 1992 21:278
    You can get hurt playing any sport - basketball, cricket, rugby etc
    etc. You shouldnt run your life on the basis that you could get hurt
    otherwise you would spend your whole life wrapped in cotton wool.
    
    Live life dangerously and to the fullest and at full speed (which is
    about 1mph for some speedy props we know 8^).
    
    Madge
8.1902RUGBY1::wayCheesed a big one offFri Feb 14 1992 11:5910
Ouch, Madge, that HURT....


Saw a picture of your buddy Kearnsy in the parade after the World Cup.
(My brother got me this EXCELLENT rugby magazine from England.)

I've got an article I'll type in later...


'Saw
8.1903PrescriptionEDUOZ::THURGARSun Feb 16 1992 20:048
    'Saw,
    
    I know a good cure for HURT. Same as the one for bad ankles. Dr Madge
    prescribes that treatment for you. Please have it filled ASAP.
    
    Many 8^)
    
    Madge
8.1904CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offMon Feb 17 1992 11:1812
Caught a major portion of the World Cup final yesterday afternoon, following
the Daytona 500.

It seemed like quite a match.


Madge, your buddy Kearnsey got some good comments from the announcers,
at one point they said "And Australia has found themselves a hooker
as big as a prop and mobile besides".


'Saw
8.1905BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Feb 17 1992 13:3719
Here's our schedule for the Spring, so far:

April 4 	Philadelphia, Merrimack, and Portland		Home
April 11-12	Washington Tourney				Washington, DC
April 18-19	Chicago, Minnesota, Amazons			Chicago, IL
April 25-26	USARE Select Side tourney			Philadelphia, PA
May 2		Richmond, England				Home
May 9		Monmouth, TBA, Gotham				Monmouth, NJ
May 16-17	Regionals					Newport, RI
May 23-24	Nationals					Blain, MN

We will also be presenting coaching clinics for the University of Vermont
and for the Upstate New York region in Burlington on March 8, and in Albany
on March 21, respectively.

The real trick will be getting my laundry done the latter three weeks of 
April and May.

Rachael
8.1906BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Feb 17 1992 13:395
I got the word on the England - France game.  (Finals of the 5 nations?)
England won 31-15 or so, France used up all three subs and had two players
sent off for misconduct.

Rachael
8.1907Austin vs. San AntonioPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Feb 17 1992 15:2027
8.1908CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offMon Feb 17 1992 15:4025
Congrats Mac.

Last week showed me some things.  By Thursday, I could hardly move
my legs.  The only real problem was low on the biceps in back of the
leg, just above the knee.

Didn't lift on Friday, but I did get out for a run yesterday.  Did two.
Legs stiffened up at a mile but I ran through it.  Gonna catch a run
in a few (might try 2.4) and see how it goes.

Back in the gym to lift tonight.


I'm amazed at my attitude this season.  Since yer buddy Pete Wrable
is back out for the team, there's already 6 props not including Eddie
Brewer, so I might be hooking.

But I don't care where I get selected, I don't even care if I get
selected.  I just want to get in shape.   The rest is frosting...


Well, time to run.

See y'all later,
'Saw
8.1909CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offMon Feb 17 1992 16:2011
Just did 2.


Legs are dead.  Totally dead.  Maybe I'm going too fast.  I can't
figure it.  Usually I'm not this bad off.  Even last season I wasn't
this bad off.

Oh well....no Gold for me 8^)


'Saw
8.1910BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Feb 17 1992 17:0024
Hey Mac, congratulations!  In looking over our schedule I'm bummed we
don't play till April.  But the coaching clinics are a lot of fun.

I ran 4.5 at lunch today and (sorry 'Saw) did well.  I ran with a real
runner and kept up.  She said it was a pretty normal pace.  I've been 
lifting here and there these last few weeks (minus a few days for my
puking spree last week) and I am pretty weak but have confidence that
I will get stronger, soon.  I was able to do three sets of dips, 10-8-5,
yesterday.  They're one of my favorite exercises so I was psyched.  I also
benched 95lbs once, which is pretty good for me also.  I weighed myself
today and was a heiferish 126.5, I decided to blame it on water retention
becaue I am not interested in really weighing that much.  Unfortunately it
is about a week and a half off from me realistically retaining water, (I'm
sure you guys totally know what that feels like) but I'll use the excuse 
anyways.

So I'm happy with my running and pretty unhappy with my strength, but am
just trying to keep working out and being patient.  Gotta run more, though,
if I get under 125 lbs I'll never have to stop running!

Saw get psyched!  Improvement comes so quickly!  Mac, no sitting on the
laurels here, get going!

Rachael
8.1911I believe I'll have 'nuther onoe 'keep!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Feb 17 1992 17:1217
    Rach,
    
    I'd need about 4 pounds of lead weight to balance the see saw if'n
    you were on the other side!   ;^)
    
    Yes, the weather today certainly made me wanna go outside and run a few
    miles
    
    
    
    NOT!
    
    have a nice day
    
    grins,
    Kev
    
8.1912CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offMon Feb 17 1992 17:2128
Rach....


If you're retaining water, try this:

	Take plenty of vitamin B complex.

	Drink plenty of water.


Now, I don't know much about the whole 'woman thing' and for that you'll
have to forgive me, but here's what I know about water and the body.

If your body thinks you aren't getting enough, it'll horde it like a miser.
So if you drink plenty of water, you fool your body into thinking you 
don't need it.

Vitamin B is a natural diuretic....


hope this helps.


'Saw


PS trade you some running for some strength.  Last week I got a new PR
   on the bench.  It ain't much, but for me it was a first...
8.1913LegsEDUOZ::THURGARMon Feb 17 1992 20:4820
    'Saw
    
    Dont worry about the running, after doing weights (squats) you are
    using the same muscles for running. It will take time for them to
    adjust, slow twitch/fast twitch fibre composition rebalancing. You have
    to find the right mix of leg work on weights and running. I know a lot
    of professional athletes (because I massage an athletics squad) and
    they all suffer from this juggling act. One day they feel great, the
    next like lead. Just your bodies way of letting you know to rest up a
    bit.
    
    Tell you what is embarressing is running with these people. Talk about
    having a lack of style when I run. They think my mechanics are awful.
    Then I got a few of the guys on a basketball court, my turn to laugh.
    
    What ever happened to M_Air_Brooks ?.
    
    I just had a thought how good Michael Jordan would be in a lineout.
    
    Madge 
8.1914RUGBY1::wayCheesed a big one offTue Feb 18 1992 10:5324
Madge,

Thanks for the info.

I've adjusted my squatting routine, and it should help out a bit.
I'm doing a light squat workout (sets of 5 at a lower weight) on Mondays
and I'll be doing a heavy squat workout (sets of 2 at a higher weight) on
Fridays.

Wednesday, which is sandwiched between two rugby practices, will be a
rest day for squats.


The one thing I have noticed is that all the squatting has actually helped.
While my legs felt like lead, it was a little easier to force myself to
keep going, whereas in the past I would have wanted to quit.

I've got practice tonight, so we'll see how it all works out....


I still might need that ankle treatment though....8^)


'Saw
8.1915BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Feb 18 1992 10:566
I'm not really retaining water, I just weigh more than I want to so I decided
to use that as an excuse.

And where is our latest rookie?

Rachael
8.1916good matchCTHQ2::LEARYBeano:PreventGasBeforeItStartsTue Feb 18 1992 12:4010
    He fainted watching the World Cup on sunday. still hasn't recovered.
    Says he doesn't look good in electrical tape. Also wants to keep all
    his teef ( gruesome sight those Aussie,what Madge 8^))).
    
    MikeL
    I watched some of the re-broadcast on Sunday and was quite impressed.
    Quite a mainly sport, rugby. Tell me, can any of these guys walk
    unaided past the age of fifty??
    
    
8.1917RUGBY1::wayCheesed a big one offTue Feb 18 1992 13:0628
Mike,


Not only do they walk unaided past 50, but they still play after 50.


Believe it or not, I read in Rugby magazine that there is an over 50 league
some place.   Believe me, once you get the needle in your arm, it's awfully
tough to get it out.

The difference between an A side game at club level, and an Old Boys game
is primarily that of pace.  In fact, Old Boys games are great to watch if
you're trying to teach someone the game.


The thing that amazed me no end in the broadcast on Sunday was that every
time a back was tackled, or about to be tackled, the flankers were right there,
to either support (ie take a pass and continue the rush) OR to ruck over.
The props and locks were not far behind.

From watching that, and from having played the game and knowing the tolls that
rucking, getting up, charging off, supporting, and rucking again take on
your energy level, I would put forth the assertion that those four flankers
(Both English and Australian) are probably four of the most all-around fit
people on Earth.


'Saw_(who really appreciates flankers)
8.1918BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Feb 18 1992 13:3518
prrrrr.  We like to run around, we do.  smile smile

When I watch the OZ back row, it just puts me in a frenzy of inspiration.  I 
just want to run and run.  

Saw, have you noticed any increase in bursting speed from doing squats?
That's where I'd expect to see the most improvement, rather than endurance.

I want to get wicked cut so I'll have all the girls swooning by summer.  I 
mean, uh, so I'll play really well as we head into Nationals.

My roommate and I were packing our lunches today and we were both bringing
in huge amounts of food since we have practice tonight.  I can't wait.  The
gym we're at doesn't have any stairs, so last week we did aerobics.  I hope
we do them again tonight, I love aerobics.  We'll get back to stairs after
public school vacation.

Rachael
8.1919CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offTue Feb 18 1992 14:3337
8.1920EDUOZ::THURGARTue Feb 18 1992 20:3314
    Gotta admit something. The best flanker (breakaway) I have seen is
    Michael Jones from NZ. He is awesome, but cannot play on Sundays due to
    religious beliefs. The Aussie pack is very big (over 100 kilo per man
    average), but very mobile. They have just announced a test against the
    Springboks later this year in Sth Africa. It will be very interesting
    to see the standard.
    
    Of course people play rugby past the age of 50.
    
    
    If they live that long. 8^)
    
    
    Mr Brooks where are you ????
8.1921Rugby - the toughest sport you'll ever love.CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 10:2332
>    Gotta admit something. The best flanker (breakaway) I have seen is
>    Michael Jones from NZ. He is awesome, but cannot play on Sundays due to
>    religious beliefs. The Aussie pack is very big (over 100 kilo per man
>    average), but very mobile. They have just announced a test against the
>    Springboks later this year in Sth Africa. It will be very interesting
>    to see the standard.
    
Huge, fast men.  What a concept 8^)


Madge, perhaps you could give us (or me actually) the Aussie names
for the positions.  I know that "stand-off" is a fly-half, but I'm 
not sure what some of the others are....

And regarding South Africa and the 'boks, I've heard that South Africa
has the best pitches in the world.



>    Of course people play rugby past the age of 50.

One of our props is approaching fifty, and believe me, if he hits
you, you're gonna know it.

    
    
>    If they live that long. 8^)


Oh, they live... they just end up paralyzed sometimes....
    
'Saw    
8.1922It's Hammer time 8^(CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 10:4641
Well, I went and did it last night....8^(


Went to practice.  Got my a__ in gear, got there early, and did a major
league stretching session.  Got my achilles, my back, and spent a lot
of time doing hurdlers, to really stretch out my hamstrings and quads.

Okay, four lap warmup, feeling good.  Group stretch, feeling better.

Line up for a timed mile.  In the last lap (yes, I was last, but my
mile was the fastest I've run since before last September) I felt
some twinges.

Stopped after the mile to stretch out again, left hammer felt funny.


Got set to run lines.  First line -- WHAM.  It didn't just pull, it
kind of "popped".  Not good.   


I made sure that for the rest of the night I didn't stop and that I kept
it warm.  We did some really fun drills, and even when we did suicides
at the end I gave it all I had.

As soon as I got home I iced it.  Today it's not quite as bad, but
I have a feeling this is gonna be uncomfortable for a couple of weeks.
I'm going this afternoon to buy a neoprene brace for it, to keep it
tight and compressed....


Always something.  This was the FIRST season that I actually felt 
comfortable doing the drills we were doing.....


On another note, Al Deken (Captain) and Bob Hess (Vice Captain) are doing
a superb job with the team, especially in terms of MAKING IT A TEAM.
There's a lot of support -- even for an old slow guy like me.....


'Saw

8.1923BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Feb 19 1992 11:4317
What is the left hammer?  Leg, ankle, knee?  I hope it feels better, soon.
Neoprene sounds good.  I used to worry about wearing a brace because I
thought I might develop a dependancy, but my doctor told me that's a myth.
Proabably varies from individual to individual.

We didn't have practice last night after all, we must not have had a gym.
So I went home and ate a lot and did chores.

I have such a hard time running or lifting when I get home from work because
I'm so hungry by then that I just want to eat instead.  Today I'm going to
eat lunch around 2 or 2:30, then the plan is to lift tonight.  I have to go
somewhere at lunch, so I won't be eating or working out at noon.

MIT hockey alumni game is Sunday, March 15, if any of y'all are going to
be in Boston and want to watch me skid around a rink.

Rachael
8.1924CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 11:5428
8.1925Like James Herriot, I'll help the animals! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Feb 19 1992 12:4021
    'Saw,
    
    Sounds to me like you prepped the 'string with the stretching before
    realling warming up.  Did/do you slow jog for ~10 minutes before
    the stretching?  If ya don't you really should to get it "warm". 
    
    Describe the stretching you do and in what sequence OK?  I'd like to
    visualize what you do so perhaps I can offer some help on a faster
    recovery and what to do to avoid doing it again.  Remember, a pulled
    'string can take 8-10 weeks to fully heal.  Severe damage can happen
    if it's stressed real bad during the healing period.
    
    I'm not a trainer, and I don't play one on tee vee but I figure that
    6 years of major sprinters experience (50 yd. dash, 100 yd dash, 440 yd
    relay) with *NEVER* having a muscle pull gotta make me ever-so-slightly
    qualified to toss in $.02!
    
    I remain,
    limber_enough_to_palm_the_floor_without_knee_bends_@41
    Kev
    
8.1926RUGBY1::wayCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 12:5753
I don't do 8-10 of running before hand.  I've never done that, because
it doesn't do much for me.

What I did was a couple of times up and down the hoops court, slowly.
Just enough to get the blood flowing.


I started with back stretches -- that takes the most time for me.
I lay on my back, knees up, legs bent, and move the legs to the right,
keeping my shoulder blades on the floor.  Then over to the left.

After that I rocked a while, to loosen up my whole back.  Then over and
hold, back to rocking.

Loosened up my achilles (standard  lean against wall stretch... you've seen
it) followed by the push-up position achillies stretch.


Next I did my groin.  Feet together (sole to sole) in front, push down
on legs.


The I did hurdlers.  Hammer, back on quad, hammer.  After that was done,
I did a modified hurdlers, where instead of the other leg back out, 
I put the sole against the side of the other knee.


When I was done, I felt really good.  Couple more hoops courst (slow)
and then we did our four laps to warm up.

Went through the entire group streching, and the timed mile.



I think the problem is from last week.  I didn't do any stretching before
last Tuesday's practice, and by the time the night was over, I had a lot
of lactic acid build up.  I blew off Thursday (shouldn't have) because
they were really tight.....   


That's about it.


Last night I iced it for half an hour, stretched it out (hurdlers) and
iced it again.  then went to bed.  (Didn't have any atomic balm, so put
mineral ice on it over night).

Doesn't feel TOO bad to walk on, but I'd have to spend some serious time
stretching it out to run.....



'Saw
8.1927IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomWed Feb 19 1992 13:3812
    On folks over 50 playing.....they sure do.  I have a friend who's only 6
    months away from it, and planning on continuing for a long time :-)  He
    tells of being in an old boys game down in Argentina where the scrum
    half was a gentleman of about 70.  The rule was "Don't tackle the scrum
    half", which must have made for an interesting game.  The biggest
    down-side for my friend of still playing is that he gets very stiff
    after a game.  And he's been warned that he shouldn't really prop
    anymore, as he's got a compressed disc in his neck.  But for some 30+
    years of playing as a prop and 2nd row, all over the world, that ain't
    so bad.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1928CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 13:4015
If you're a prop or a hooker, and your neck holds up, then you're
golden.

One of the reasons I ended up playing hooker last hear was that
one of our hookers had a neck operation.  He's not out this spring
either.  He was thinking of coming back as a center.


fwiw, I think that in the future, hookers are gonna look more and
more like Madge's friend Kearns -- big, mobile, muscular...

In fact, we might be seeing some evolution going on....


'Saw
8.1929RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOSeinfeld roolz!Wed Feb 19 1992 14:1918
    Frank -
    
    There is one word you need for the Hammer.  STRETCH.
    
    Hamstrings (and other muscles) need to be stretched and warmed up -
    especially in cooler weather.  
    
    Bend oveand without forcing, reach for the floor - feel somethinkg in
    the back of your legs?  Thems tight hamstrings, boy.  
    
    Back in my competitive days, I stretched before and after every workout
    - a total of about 45 minutes - but now I do very little, and I've
    had some hamstring problems myself.  
    
    If you are tight, work into a stretch.  Remember, NEVER force yourself
    while stretching - you can do damage.   
    
    JD
8.1930CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 14:2319
I usually have no problems with these guys.

I think the problem relates back to last week, where I didn't get
in early and stretch out before practice.

Honest, before practice last night everything in the back of the leg
felt pretty loose.  Really.


But I hear you.  I'm gonna keep doing the ice and slow stretch (I NEVER
bounce my stretches)...


When I stretch, I take a deep breath, do the stretch, let it out as
I stretch farther.  The longer I stretch, the farther I can go.....



'Saw
8.1931CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 14:236
btw,

thanks for all the advice so far, folks...8^)



8.1932FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Feb 19 1992 14:2710
    You can have someone stretch you too.  Lie on your back with your knees
    locked.  Have someone pick up your leg and stretch it towards your haid
    while keeping your knees locked.
    
    For stretching groins, an isometric stretch is good.  Lie on your back
    with your feet between someone else's feet, while he's standing up. 
    Lift your legs slightly, and push out on his ankles.  Then, put your
    feet on the outside of his ankles and push in.
    
    John
8.1933CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 14:3716
>    You can have someone stretch you too.  Lie on your back with your knees
>    locked.  Have someone pick up your leg and stretch it towards your haid
>    while keeping your knees locked.
    
That's a good idea.  

I've done that before (although not for rugby).  Usually you watch the
guys eyes.  When they start to tear up, stop stretching 8^)


Seriously, that is a good exercise, and if I can get to the point
(like say next week) where I can deal with that, I'll try to incorporate
it into my pre-practice stretch....


'Saw
8.1934Sharing some secrets to remain injury free!CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Feb 19 1992 15:1892
    'Sawmaim,
    
    ;^)
    
I don't do 8-10 of running before hand.  I've never done that, because
it doesn't do much for me.
***

-You absolutely MUST do 8-10 to warm up the muscle fibre.  Getting the blood
flowing really doesn't help.  A warm rubber band (or elastic as you N.E.'rs
call 'em) stretches better than a cold one.  Try it!
**

What I did was a couple of times up and down the hoops court, slowly.
Just enough to get the blood flowing.
***
-not enough and don't think because you may be sweating a tad the muscles
are warmed up.
**
I started with back stretches -- that takes the most time for me.
I lay on my back, knees up, legs bent, and move the legs to the right,
keeping my shoulder blades on the floor.  Then over to the left.

After that I rocked a while, to loosen up my whole back.  Then over and
hold, back to rocking.

Loosened up my achilles (standard  lean against wall stretch... you've seen
it) followed by the push-up position achillies stretch.
***
-IMO this is more prone to injure you than benefit you, especially if you
haven't worked the tendon with ankle rotating (make pointed toes make circles)
for a few minutes.  Also, if you insist on the pole/wall tendon stretch, first
you should have sat down, legs straight and together and see if your hands
can go over the toes and grab your instep and hold.  This stretches the calf
muscles, 'string and if you can pull/push your toes towards your shin, then
the tendon will stretch.  Hold that position.
**

Next I did my groin.  Feet together (sole to sole) in front, push down
on legs.
***
-Not necessary if you follow below.
**
The I did hurdlers.  Hammer, back on quad, hammer.  After that was done,
I did a modified hurdlers, where instead of the other leg back out, 
I put the sole against the side of the other knee.
***
-The "true" hurdlers exercise has 90 degree angles at the ankle, groin,
other knee and other ankle. Ankle #1 (toes pointed up) is grabbed, preferably
with both hands.  Slight twist/swivle the shoulders to stretch back muscles.
Do not drop arms, slowly move hands/arms parallel to floor and (try to) touch
floor with chest when arms are midpoint between knee#1 and knee#1.  This will
stretch groin without bounce and provide equal stretching at the groin. Raise
chest, keeping arms straight and swing over to ankle #2 (the one lying flat).
Try to grab it. Hold.
If you really wanna impress your friends, try keeping your legs where they are
and raise at the hips and try to rotate so ankle and leg#1 twists into the 
position ankle&leg#2 formerly had, keeping the 90 degree angles.  Formerly
ankle&leg#2 should assume the position A&L#1 had.  Repeat the stretching.
***

When I was done, I felt really good.  Couple more hoops courst (slow)
and then we did our four laps to warm up.

Went through the entire group streching, and the timed mile.



I think the problem is from last week.  I didn't do any stretching before
last Tuesday's practice, and by the time the night was over, I had a lot
of lactic acid build up.  I blew off Thursday (shouldn't have) because
they were really tight.....   


That's about it.


Last night I iced it for half an hour, stretched it out (hurdlers) and
iced it again.  then went to bed.  (Didn't have any atomic balm, so put
mineral ice on it over night).

Doesn't feel TOO bad to walk on, but I'd have to spend some serious time
stretching it out to run.....
***
-Almost automatic but don't forget the aspirin.
***

'Saw


-Kev_who_forgot_to_mention_earlier_he_was_also_a_hurdler!

8.1935WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardWed Feb 19 1992 15:278
    re .1934
    
    Kev,
    
    Didn't they take points away for running under the hurdles?  8^)
    
    Conan
    
8.1936rollward Mr. Cook! That's how I got a "Montross" haircut!yCST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Feb 19 1992 15:521
    
8.1937stretching? bah!!GENRAL::WADEWhose idea was it to hang these ferns?Wed Feb 19 1992 17:545
    
    	Sheesh Kev, by the time 'Saw got done wif all that, practice
    	would be over!
    
    	Claybroon
8.1938CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Feb 19 1992 18:216
    Yer right Claybroom but he'd show everybody how smart he was
    by stretching and mimik'n Doc Manyzeros by not getting hert!
    
    schop schlep schrauch,
    Kev
    
8.1939CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 18:3321
Actually, if I ran for 8 to 10 minutes before practice, never mind the
stretching, I'd have nothing left.


Strangely enough, the BEST games I've had on the pitch are the ones
where I've had little warm-up.  New Haven, Providence, Mystic River...

The C side was up in the air on each of those games.  Hell, in New Haven
I'd already had 5 beers (but I wouldn't recommend that).

I'm not a big warmup person.  Just a little to get the juices going, and
get me out there to hit someone....


Leg is starting to feel normal to walk on now.  Hopefully with proper
care, I'll be okay for practice...

AND for my major squats night on Friday....


'Saw
8.1940CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Feb 19 1992 19:0210
    When yer a young pup you can get away with not warming up and
    the fact that 8-10 minutes of easy jogging wastes ya tells me
    you are in TERRIBLE shape (no pun intended) cardiovascular wise.
    
    'aw you should target being able to run ~50 minutes without stopping
    at any pace you choose by early-mid June to really get into good,
    fast recovery shape.  What's your pulse right now?  
    
    Coach_Kev
    
8.1941CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 19:0628
>    When yer a young pup you can get away with not warming up and
>    the fact that 8-10 minutes of easy jogging wastes ya tells me
>    you are in TERRIBLE shape (no pun intended) cardiovascular wise.

Actually, I'm in pretty good shape 8^)

    
>    'aw you should target being able to run ~50 minutes without stopping
>    at any pace you choose by early-mid June to really get into good,
>    fast recovery shape.  What's your pulse right now?  
    
 
Right now it's 72.   


Hopefully, over the course of the season, that will get lower.  My body
right now is kind of going nuts, because I'm putting muscle on, and
trying to take fat off....  Hopefully, it's all working towards a newer
leaner me come summer time.


I hear ya though.  Once this hammer heals, I'll be running on the off days.



'Saw


8.1942RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOSeinfeld roolz!Wed Feb 19 1992 19:084
    72 ain't bad Sawman.    My pulse was 45 when I went to the Doctor
    lasted week.  ;-)
    
    JD
8.1943CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 19:1113
>    72 ain't bad Sawman.    My pulse was 45 when I went to the Doctor
>    lasted week.  ;-)
    
I've had it as low as 60, but not really recently.

I've always had excellent BP though...


'Saw


PS  Your pulse is so low because it takes a long time for the blood to
    flow through those HUGE lats!
8.1944rumor has it Arthur Fedler's pulse is ZERO though ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Feb 19 1992 19:219
    Thanks JD for the goo numbers.
    
    Hey 'sawmain,  mine's 72 also!  And you know about my vices! :^)
    How's THAT!
    
    You should be mid-high 50's.
    
    Coach_Kev
    
8.1945Mine was 200+ this morning...SASE::SZABOSox Tix take Quantum Leap. Film @11.Wed Feb 19 1992 19:231
    
8.1946CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offWed Feb 19 1992 19:276
Watch us get to da game and find *36* ruggers in our seats....

Mac and I would have to negotiate wif 'em....


'Saw
8.1947EDUOZ::THURGARWed Feb 19 1992 21:2312
    Positions:
    
    Backs - Fullback, wingers, centres (inside & outside), five eight, half
    back.
    
    Forwards - Lock, Breakaways, second rowers, props and da hooker.
    
    After all this talk about ya hammy. Any advice for curing my ankle
    (torn ligaments). The doctor wants to open it up and sew them back. I
    told him that I would do the same to his ankle.
    
    Mdage
8.1948DYPSS1::ROPERBRoper DTN-433-4336Wed Feb 19 1992 23:368
    I suffered town ligaments in my ankle several years ago playing
    football.  My doctor told me it would've been better for me to have
    broken my ankle then to have torn ligaments.  It takes a much longer
    time to heal ligaments then bone.  The only advice I can give you is to
    be patient, and to stay off the ankle.  If it's swollen, you probably
    should be on crutches.
    
    WILDCAT
8.1949EDUOZ::THURGARThu Feb 20 1992 02:495
    Dont think I am ever going to win the thin ankles award. Not swollen,
    just a mass of scar tissue etc. It looks huge. Would have been better
    if I broke the ankle (I agree).
    
    Madge
8.1950BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Feb 20 1992 11:0714
Can somebody write in a few replies telling me to start and stop timing so I
can check my pulse, too?  I don't have a watch.

Lowest mine ever was (recorded) was 56, the day after I ran a marathon.  It
was recorded because I was giving blood that day.  I also went to track 
practice.  That was when I was young and strong.

I agree with Kev on the 8-10 minutes of running before stretching thing.  If 
I am serious about stretching, I need to run at least a half mile first.  As
a team, we run between a quarter and a half a mile before stretching, at a 
slow pace.  For a serious game, we will start warming up over an hour before
game time, starting with a long, slow run.

Rachael
8.1951CAMONE::WAYCheesed a big one offThu Feb 20 1992 12:0333
Madge --

Thanks for the positions.  It seems that in the forwards, what we
call an 8man (or #8 for Rach ;^)) you call a lock, and our flankers
(or wing forwards) are called breakaways...  I see now....

As to the ankle, I still say that my remedy is best.  It may not HEAL
your ankle, but you certainly can have fun while you rest it....
I'm still looking by the way, so if you find any of that, um, er,
"medicine" over there that might help my hamstring, PLEASE send "it"
over via Federal Express....(along with some beers 8^))



Rachael --

What is this "when I was young and strong" bullshit ;^)  You're in pretty
damn good shape now, from what I hear of the things you endure for
practice!




BTW --

Measured my thigh last night, to buy that support.  27", which is bigger
than I thought.  I had to get an XL support.....



'Saw


8.1952NEWS FLASH!! Hell froze over - Rach agreed w/me!! ;^)CST17::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Thu Feb 20 1992 12:081
    
8.1953CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsThu Feb 20 1992 12:286
>>          -< NEWS FLASH!! Hell froze over - Rach agreed w/me!!  ;^) >-


Well, that's better than a Hot flash....8^)
    

8.1954MCIS1::DHAMELForgot to cut my imbecilical cordThu Feb 20 1992 12:319
    
    > check my pulse, too?  I don't have a watch.
    
    pssssst.... Hey Rach, they sell 'em to anybody.
    
    [isfh]
    
    Dickstah
    
8.1955RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOSeinfeld roolz!Thu Feb 20 1992 14:1524
    Re ankles.
    
    I've sprained mine very badly many times.  Latest was last may.
    
    One great exercise to do is to 'write' the alphabet using your foot -
    this moves the ankle around, and in time, will make it stronger.  Start
    with all Caps - then smalls.  You cain do script if you want.  It
    works.
    
    Next best thing to do is go to a local pharmacy and see if they have
    these big, thick rubber bands.  Put one end of the band around
    something strong (something you can't move with leg strength) and the
    other around your ankle.   Gently start moving and stretching the band.
    
    As for it being better to be 'broken' - shop around - this is an old
    wives' type tale.  It's never better to break a bone in your body. 
    However, treatment is easier for a doctor if it is broken - cuz they
    can either set it and cast it, or just immobilize it and forget about
    it for a few weeks.  With a sprain, it takes CONSTANT work to get back
    - no breathers.  Of all the sports medicine doctors, trainers and
    therapists I've been to, they have all scoffed at the "would have been
    better to have broken it" line.  A broken bone is forever. 
    
    JD
8.1956BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Feb 20 1992 16:3944
You guys have me ROLLWARD!

My grandparents got me a watch once.  All I could think of to say was "Oh
Thanks, I don't have one".  Implication being it was filling a big void in
my life.  Unspoken finish being "because I have never wanted one".  

I just went looking.  First guy didn't have a watch.  Second one didn't,
either, but had a little clock with seconds on it.  I was 10 for 10 seconds,
then tried again and was 32 for 30 seconds. 

Saw don't ever stop saying nice things!  I am really looking forward to trying
to live through another one of them practices tonight.  Especially since we
didn't get to have one Thursday.

I can't believe there is such a long time until our first game.  It's hard
to be getting so pumped up and we won't play till April.  Of course, Mac
probably doesn't know what that feels like, havnig scammed a game down 
South...

We had to submit our team and personal goals for the season.  I had to really
think mine through, because of my brother's wedding and the impact it will
have.  

I finally realized that I'm only going to miss two games, one of
which will be very easy.  But I will be there for the finals, as well as
every other game and practice this season.  So I intend to be a contender,
I am not going to roll over and die.

Once I decided that, I figured out the following three goals.

One was to lift more during the season, because I really need it and we
don't have enough of an off-season to do it then.

Two is to work on my ball handling skills more, and kicking.  One of our
team mottos is "Forwards don't kick", but I want to learn anyways.

And my third goal is to capitalize on my strengths.  I've spent a lot of energy
working on the things I'm not so good at.  But now, I think I'm at a point in
my game where focusing on what I am good at can really pay off.  I have a lot
more confidence as a player, I know I can do things, and I intend to do it.

I want to play every game like the opponent is FSU.

Rachael
8.1957Kick, kick, kickEDUOZ::THURGARThu Feb 20 1992 20:2316
    Thanks for all the advice on the ankle. 'Saw I am still looking for
    that miracle cure. I may have trouble with doing the alphabet because
    us Australians speak differently.
    
    Rach - what do you mean forwards dont kick. I played breakaway and it
    was very handy at times when I would cover for the fullback to have
    somebody who can torpedo a ball 50 metres. Everybody should practice
    there kicking it is a much a part of rugby as is tackling, passing etc.
    Plus it can win games. I remember being down 6-4 with a few minutes
    left in a game and taking a deepish 25 metre drop kick and potting a
    field goal to give us a 7-6 win. My coach thought I should have ran it,
    but hey we won. Insane saying about forwards not kicking. Like saying
    backs can't get in rucks. 
    
    Madge
    
8.1958CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 10:3135
>    Thanks for all the advice on the ankle. 'Saw I am still looking for
>    that miracle cure. I may have trouble with doing the alphabet because
    
Get some crutches.  Get a cooler full of beer.  Get a beach umbrella.

Drive to the beach and cruise for awhile until you find someone who
looks like she might be the miracle cure.  

Once you have found her, hobble around on your crutches, grabbing up the
beer and the beach umbrella, towel, other necessities.....

As you walk past her (it's best if she is alone), fall.


The rest is up to you, mate, but my guess is that you'll have the
Chainsaw's miracle cure all wrapped up........




Re Forwards kicking:

	Flankers kick occasionally, but it's not something they 
	encourage us props to do.  However, knowing how to do
	a little up and under wouldn't be a bad idea.

	My problem is that this body runs (sort of), or this
	body can kick (that's REALLY stretching it), but never the
	twain shall meet...




'Saw

8.1959WMOIS::COOK_TSkysurfinonmyBoogieBoardFri Feb 21 1992 12:076
    re .1951
    Does this mean that there is more to shudder with when you talk about
    scrumming? 8^)
    
    Conan
    
8.1960'Saws thighs shudder, register 6.4 on the Richter ScaleCAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 12:2920
>    Does this mean that there is more to shudder with when you talk about
>    scrumming? 8^)
    

Thighs like this don't shudder.  If they did, they would register on the
Richter scale.


I just mentioned that because I had never measured my thighs before.
I mean, to me they don't feel huge or anything, and they're certainly
not in league with Earl Campbell ("skoal brother"), but I definitely
know there is some potential in these thighs.   If I keep working them,
these babies are gonna rip steel....

It dawned on me after I measured them, that 27" is bigger around than
some girls waistlines!


'Saw    

8.1961BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 21 1992 12:5145
Why our forward don't kick.

We don't need to and the risks are not worth the potential gains.

Currently, our forwards do not have a good enough foot to be consistent.  We
could work on it, but why bother?  There are a lot of fancy things we could
add to our game, but we like to play very basic rugby very well rather than
doing anything particularly unusual.

I think if we had a weaker back line, there would be more call  for it.  But
our backs run very well, and when the flanker receives the ball, it's usually
not in a strategic place to kick.  Too great a chance of being blocked.

Drop goals are fairly uncommon here, even less common in the women's game.
We scored our first points in Nationals last year on a drop goal, and it
was demoralizing for the other team that we had the confidence to pull that
off.

Our #8 will kick once or twice a season, but usually in a pretty low key
game.

You've really got me thinking on this.  To be honest, having a forward kicking
strikes me as the kind of thing you'd see in a lower level game, where 
individual effort has more of an impact than team play.  I don't remember
ever having seen any forward kick in the international matches I've seen.

About practice last night.  I did not shine, we had too much emphasis on 
strength type things and hardly any running, so we worked my weaknesses and 
ignored my strengths.  Good for me, but hard on the ego.  We did aerobics 
(but slowly, that's so much harder) for about a half hour, then did pushups 
almost the rest of the time.  By the end I was having a hard time doing 
"girl pushups".  I am so disgusted with my abilities (or lack thereof) in 
pushups, I wish I could take a pill and just be much stronger in my arms and
shoulders.

I have to lift more...

And run...

And eat good foods...

Sigh.

Rachael

8.1962CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 13:0926
In the 1987 World Cup Fiji had a drop goal scored by a flanker.


I've seen the Wanderers do drop goals from time to time.  We made it
into the wildcard game in 1990 on a Chris McGrath drop goal which
beat Beacon Hill 23-20.  (We were down 14-7 at the half).

Tom Vinick, when he would play with us C-siders would attempt them, just
for kicks....8^)

Howie Rosenberg booted a monster drop goal from our side of the field
against WRFC in the Connecticut Cup last year.

Glen Judge will boot them on occasion, and he usually hits them...



For the most part, like Rach said, our forwards don't kick....


Wanderers rugby is defined by ball possession.  Maximize possession, and
you'll score, or get a penalty which will put points on the board too.
Forwards kicking doesn't tend to maximize possession....


'Saw
8.1963BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 21 1992 13:279
Let me add that I think you should never say never.  The rule "forwards don't
kick" is unwritten (but spoken).  However, it is mostly to guide the less 
experienced players, the experienced player is expected to make her own 
decision.  

PS I like that miracle cure.  I think my ankle feels a little wobbly.


Rachael
8.1964BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 21 1992 13:319
Madge,
	Like I said, you've got me thinking.  I just reread your reply, and
kicking while covering for the fullback is completely different.  I cover
for the fullback pretty regularly from flanker, and a good boot would be
especially useful if we ever played anybody who could kick at us.  It hasn't
been much of an issue because usually when the fullback inserts, we maintain
possession past the time I'm covering for her.

Rachael
8.1965CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 13:3415
I covered for the fullback once.

Me, this big old slow footed prop.......


The fullback said "I've gotta go take a leak, cover for me".   So, when
the captain came and asked why the fullback wasn't ready to take the field,
I said "He's taking a leak, he'll be right back".


I did a good job, but I didn't have to kick.....


hth,
'Saw
8.1966CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 15:0916

	"Well, there I was with the line in front of me, and I
	 thought to myself how DAFT to risk dribbling the ball
	 with the foot, so I simply picked up the thing and ran
	 over the line and touched down.  I didn't get half a 
	 wigging from our skipper, and as for the Head, he was
	 FURIOUS."

				- William Webb Ellis, traditionally
					the originator of modern rugger (1823)

	"Rugby is a game played by men with peculiarly shaped balls"

				- William Webb Ellis

8.1967CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 15:2023


	"Git um oot o' there!"
                       
		   Heard at rugby grounds the length and breadth
	  	   of Scotland and particularly in the border country.
		   Roughly translated it means "kindly remove that
		   chap from the ruck or maul"

	"I dinna much like sides that have to kick off more
	 than once"

		   Scotland coach Jim Telfer in a typically dour
		   response to a fellow coach's litany of kickoff ploys.


	"I love what rugby is, brain as well as brawn and then beer
	 together afterwards.  There's no other sport which caters
	 for all shapes and sizes, or where players and spectators mix
	 so naturally after a match"

                   Roy Laidlaw, 1987
8.1968PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 21 1992 15:3237
8.1969IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Feb 21 1992 15:336
    Anybody know if the Bermudian season is currently "happening" or not? 
    How I find out about matches down there?
    
    Many thanks for any help.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.1970CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsFri Feb 21 1992 16:309
>    Anybody know if the Bermudian season is currently "happening" or not? 
>    How I find out about matches down there?
>    
>    Many thanks for any help.  :-)
    
Probably.....

Just be prepared for some very SLOW game.  No one rushes any-ting in
de islands, mon.....
8.1971MCIS1::DHAMELForgot to cut my imbecilical cordFri Feb 21 1992 17:1616
    
    >    Anybody know if the Bermudian season is currently "happening" or not? 

    The Bermudian season is happening as we write.  The weather is
    gorgeous, and the outlook is grand.  Their season is much better
    than the season in New England, so I hear.
    
>    How I find out about matches down there?

    They usually hand them out free when you buy a pack of cigarettes,
    but I understand they are also sold seperately in packages.
    
    HTH
    
    Dickstah
    
8.1972EDUOZ::THURGARSun Feb 23 1992 19:3412
    Drop goals - easy money. We had a guy at school who was deadly from
    about 45 metres out, but had range to about 60 metres. We held the ball
    for about 5 minutes one game and were up 9-0. All the opposition did
    was kick off, were they pissed off.
    
    In internationals you dont usually see forwards kicking as everything
    is so organised. Plus the half and five eight kick so well. Usually the
    only kicking done by a forward is a grubber in to touch.
    
    Rach - maybe we could find twins to share for our bad ankles.
    
    Madge
8.1973EDUOZ::THURGARTue Feb 25 1992 20:043
    Is there anybody out there. Have you all gone into hibernation.
    
    Madge
8.1974SCHOOL::RIEUSupport DCU Petition CandidatesWed Feb 26 1992 10:362
       It's raining, so they must be out rolling around in the mud!
                                         Denny  8^)
8.1975BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Feb 26 1992 11:2143
We're not allowed to roll around in the mud this early in the season.  It
destroys the fields.  Too bad, because it's lots of fun.

Last night was relatively easy.  Here's the list for those of you avidly
following our training schedule.

10 sets of stairs (about 4 flights)
Only 30 pushups in warmups.  {30 pushups is not bad, it's the ones she makes
us hold down (close to but not on the ground) which really hurt}
3 lengths per in a small gym for plyometrics (sp?){high knees, butt kicks,
high skips, straight-legged jumps, frog leaps, lunge walks, and a new 
favorite, one-legged butt kicks.)
Partner drills, two times around the gym each 
	One person drags another, running with high knees, by a 
		sweatshirt around first persons hips
	One person pushes another, running with butt kicks, second person
		leans in opposition
	Wheel barrow
	Piggy-back
About 20 minutes of grid work, passing and tag games in limited space.
Two fairly easy circuits 
	A minute each of
		situps
		falling onto a mat and getting up
			stepping up and down on a bench
			leg exchanges
Then we chased each other in circles around the gym.
And finishes with 10 sprints out in the hallway, probably about 75m.

My partner in the partner drills was much bigger than I am.  She's a wing,
but she knocks the opponent backs on their a**es.  She easily weighs 160 lbs.
I had more work providing adequate opposition for her than I did just doing
the drills.  She found someone else to carry on her turn to piggyback, though,
I was not much of a challenge!  

I am so glad we are doing practice this way.  The amount of real ball work
you can do in a small gym (we have a small gym Thursday and a really small
gym Tuesday) is so limited, I would be bored to tears if we were doing that
for another month.  Instead, we are taking the time now to develop a solid
fitness base which will keep us stronger and less injured during the season.
Sounds good to me.

Rachael
8.1976PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Feb 26 1992 12:2314
    Well, Madge, it is winter in this hemisphere.  Not much rugby going on
    except for some pre-season training in our part of the country.
    
    Our practice was cancelled last night due to the weather.  Freezing
    rain on top of snow covered astroturf is not conducive to good
    training.  We'll be in the gym tomorrow night.
    
    My wife signed up the whole family for a membership at the YMCA
    yesterday.  I have an appointment tonight for a fitness assessment and
    a workout schedule to begin Nautilus and indoor aerobic training
    (stairmaster, bike, that kind of stuff).  I'm not sure how much of this
    I'll be able to do once the season starts between coaching and playing,
    but a month in the gym should do me some good.  A good friend of mine
    from the team is also a member so we should help motivate each other.
8.1977BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Feb 26 1992 12:288
Playing rugby on astroturf in snow can be a great deal of fun, especially
for slower people.  It allowed me to take a corner once on a guy once at MIT 
who ordinarily could catch me in two steps.

Are you guys tackling on turf?  I've found that to be especially conducive
to rug burns, even with sweats on.  Not to mention it's kind of hard.

Rachael
8.1978PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Feb 26 1992 12:5619
8.1979RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOSeinfeld roolz!Wed Feb 26 1992 14:3010
    SNOW?
    
    Geez, I had the shrimp on the barby lasted night.  Sunny in the 60's.
    
    Trees are flowering, tulips are a bursting from the ground.  Ran 10
    with shorts and t-shirt...
    
    ;-)
    
    JD
8.1980Cold+snow+rain=yukEDUOZ::THURGARWed Feb 26 1992 19:3812
    Not shrimps - prawns. What do you call a very short person - not being
    rude - a shrimp. A small prawn is a shrimp. I've had prawns the size of
    a hand (definitely not shrimps). If I ever meet Paul Hogan I'll kill
    him for that commercial.
    
    No Americans selected in the World XV to play the All Blacks. Couple of
    Australians (two from my old school - Nick Farr Jones amd Phil Kearns).
    Also a couple of South Africans.
    
    Today is sunny and 26 C (about 85 F) 8^).
    
    Madge
8.1981SCHOOL::RIEUSupport DCU Petition CandidatesWed Feb 26 1992 19:392
       Well then, what's a jumbo shrimp? A shrimpy prawn?
                                      Denny
8.1982RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOSeinfeld roolz!Wed Feb 26 1992 19:4310
    Madge -
    
    Actually, out here in Seattle, all you find is prawns.  But if Hogan
    had said "Put another Prawn on the Barby" - a lot of Americans would
    have been really confused - many would have thought you Aussies were
    into abusing chess pieces.
    
    ;-)
    
    JD
8.1983DECWET::METZGERNot long until March Madness....Wed Feb 26 1992 20:175
Btw - It's 70 and sunny here in Seattle today. :-)


Metz
8.1984BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Feb 27 1992 11:4315
Well it's cool but not cold and clammy in the old town full of beans today.
Satisfied?  It's just not pleasant at all.  I can't wait for summer.

Wanna here some more?

I enjoy winter because it makes summer seems even greater.  I like ups and
downs in life.  I think bad days are important else good days won't be
worth as much.

I can't wait for Spring.  

Everybody should plan on coming to Newport, then you can see all of our
teams play.  That's the weekend before Memorial Day, right?

Rachael
8.1985MAPVAX::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Feb 27 1992 12:457
8.1986MAPVAX::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Feb 27 1992 12:464
8.1987Mike JN says hey !!QUASER::HUNTERTwo JaKes... Your Worst NightmareThu Feb 27 1992 12:4614
    
     'Saw...  Had lunch with MikeJN yesterday.  He wanted me to say hi
    to all of the ::SPORTS boys for him but especially you.  He said that
    he sent you some kind of letter over the holidays when he was and has
    yet to get a reply.  He's wondering if you don't have the same feelings
    yyou had for him when he was a regular member of this conference. ;^)
    What should I tell him.
    
    BG
    
    P.S. 
    
    Mike Says that Womens Figure Skating, Ballet, and Dwarf Tossing are all
    alot like RUGBY
8.1988I guess rugby is zen-likeCAMONE::MAZURIt ain't the meat, it's the lotion.Thu Feb 27 1992 13:579
    >I like ups and downs in life.  I think bad days are important else good 
    >days won't be worth as much.
    
    Ahhh...you need the yin to see the yang.  Do you repair motorcycles ? :-)
    
    
    

    
8.1989BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Feb 27 1992 16:0642
As a matter of fact, I've spent quite a bit of time repairing motorcycles.
So much time, that I just gave my motorcycle to one of my roommates.  It
was a pain in the butt.  Drain the carbs, charge the battery, kick it for
a while (kick the starter over, not kick at it), and start it for the spring.
Ride it once.  Replace the mandatory cable which has stretched too much 
or broken.   Change the oil.  Ride it another time.  Take off the headlamp,
wiggle the wires there and under the seat until you find the erratic electrical
problem.  Or, better yet,, take off the side cover and find the blinker
relay.  Take off the lid, look at it, put it back.  (It works now).  Ride it
once.  Replace the air filter.  Get it inspected.  Register it.  Insure it.
Inflate the tires, check the spokes, adjust the chain, lube the chain,
try to adjust the mirrors, de-corrode the mirrors so you can move them...
I won't tell you about when I tried to adjust the valves with straight feeler
guages (they need bent ones, to start with), but take my word for it, it wasn't
pretty.  I did put on new sprockets, though, and there were some parts of my
body afterwards that weren't covered in oil.  (Don't get too excited, Hawk)

And then there's the weather here.  It is generally too cold to be pleasant
riding in the morning.  (Remember, I don't like cold weather much)  Then there's
about two days of good riding weather for morning and evening.  Then it gets
hot and you're riding around in jeans, boots, a leather jacket and gloves
with a box over your head sitting on an engine wondering just what you're
doing every time you go slower than 50mph.  Leap off the bike and try to
take off as much outerwear as soon as you can (once it's stopped) before
you swim in a sea of sweat.

Best time to ride a bike would be Spring and Fall weekends, when it's 
cool in the morning and evening (commuting time during  the week) but
pleasant in the middle of the day.  And guess what I do on Spring and
Fall weekends, to keep this note on topic?

Combine the hassle with the fees ($1%% to insure, $?? to register, $15 to
inspect, $n in the limit as n approaches infinity in parts) with the fact 
that I already have something expensive and dangerous to do, and you'll see
why I gave it away.  

I might get another bike someday, but it will be one that's significantly 
younger than I am.  

Rachael, formerly zenlike.

PS Motorcyle repair is like rugby.
8.1990Ah HaH!!!!! Finally the truth comes out!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Thu Feb 27 1992 17:5720
    
    AHEM, It appears that Rach is slowwwly coming around to Doc
    Manyzero's way of thought!  I offer the following as ironclad
    evidence:
    
    "...I already have something that's expensive and DANGEROUS to do....."
    							/\
    						   my caps, her words!
    
    
    
    Doc, continue to pay no attention to those behind the curtain!
    
    hth
    
    I remain, 
    protective o' my buddy and against injury in general!
    
    Kev
    
8.19917389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Thu Feb 27 1992 18:1910
    Apologies to Doc manyzero's for the boo boo!
    
    Meant to direct those remarks to M.A.B!
    
    oops!  ka ka happens!
    
    I remain,
    only human after all,
    Kev
    
8.1992TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey IS two!!!Thu Feb 27 1992 18:4515
Rach

Your motorcycle stories remind me of when I owned an MGB.  Greatest car on the 
road when it ran.  Unfortunately that was about 30% of the time.  Cruising on
the open road with the top down was about as much fun as you could have with
clothes on.

For me this has been a long, cold (not snowy) winter.  As I would get ready to 
go running, wearing three layers of hi-tech stuff, I couldn't help but think
that my sister who moved to San Diego 20 years ago might know something I don't 
know.

Oh, to stay on topic - freezing your buns off is a lot like rugby.

=Bob=
8.1993ShatteredEDUOZ::THURGARThu Feb 27 1992 19:1111
    Kev 
    
    You disappoint me. You are human after all.
    You have just shattered all my elusions.
    First Magic Johnson, then Freddie Mercury
    Now this
    Next you will tell me that Santa Claus isn't real
    Or that the USA is going to win the next World Cup (mens Rachael)
    
    
    Madge
8.1994The things you put up with when you don't know betterANGLIN::KIRKMANBack to shoveling snow again (Uugh)Fri Feb 28 1992 02:4612
    re: =Bob=
    
    That reminds me of the coldest winter I personally experienced: My 1st
    year in college.  I ran X-country/Track and spent the entire winter
    running workouts in Saginaw, Michigan.  
    
    One of my vivid memories was that on several occasions I went into the
    shower after workouts with a stocking cap still on.  Why?  Because the
    cap had become frozen to my hair (I sweat profusely, even in that
    temp).
    
    Scott
8.1995BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Feb 28 1992 11:2927
From what I've heard of MG's, they are very similar to my (ex)bike.  But
enough, before Mac locks me out of the conference.

Last night we were all really sore and we whined a lot.  Luckily, our fitness
dominatrix was not there last night, so it wasn't so hard.  The same set
of exercises with more stairs, but without Kerry watching it wasn't as
intense.  

One more month till games.  I can't wait!  I think we are going to be pretty
fit, I think my arms might actually be bigger.  They sure hurt enough.
Actually it's mostly my shoulders (those darn pushups).  I hurt yesterday
from inside my shoulder blades down through the base of my deltoids.  But
it's good pain.

Speaking of pain.  Yes, I think rugby is dangerous.  It is more dangerous
to play rugby than it is to sit in an arm chair.  Or than running, although
running can be pretty damaging.  But so what?  You know old Bob what's
his face who can't sing...  "It's better to burn out, than it is to rust".
I kind of feel that way.  I know I am more likely to break a collar bone
or something playing rugby than I am if I played softball.  But I have such
a great life, I enjoy it so much and I feel so alive playing, it's worth
the risk.  I know I am truly living (yes rugby is not only like life, it
is life) and that's worth a lot more than staying 100% safe.

Besides which I don't ski so I think I gain a lot of safety points there.

Rachael
8.19967389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Feb 28 1992 11:5523
    Since Mac's having a mental dilemma on moving notes and I know this
    should go in the General Motor Sports note but that one's currently
    reserved for cub scouts pinewood derby stuff, I figure this should go
    here!
    
    Hey!  I owned and drove daily a 1970 MGB (Many Girls Bait) (see Intro
    note) and put 108K miles on it before trade in.  Mechanically it was
    a cherry and the only things it (regularly) needed was a new pair of
    batteries every year and frequent welds to the muffled (bottoming out
    at driveways).  :*(
    
    Used to race it in SCCA gymcana events & frequently placed 2nd or 3rd
    in my class.
    
    Wish I had it back......
    
    Kev
    
    Oh yeah, sticking to the topic, welding exhaust pipes is alot like
    rugby!
    
    Kev
    
8.1997ZEKE::SAIAFZR Madness....Fri Feb 28 1992 12:1914
    
    
    re.-1
    
    What tracks have you raced at ? I used to watch the open testing at
    Lime Rock of some SCCA cars when I was dialing in my bike there. 
    
    (Those hot sh*ts at L.R. would let us out for an hour at lunch brake)
    Some really neat cars though and a great track.
    
    I even met Paul Nueman there, he's a cool guy. Sems like an average
    Joe, at least he comes off that way.
    
    -TH
8.1998MAB should go for it...TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Fri Feb 28 1992 12:3818
8.1999PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Feb 28 1992 15:054
8.2000RUGBY1::wayHand me down my shootin' iron...Mon Mar 02 1992 11:2945
A few free association thoughts:

	Phil Kearns is a nukewidebodystud...  He's not too tall, but
	as the wonderful commentator said in the World Cup, it's nice
	to have a hooker, built like a prop, who's very mobile.

	
	Kevin Swords got jobbed.   Swords is so good, they've taken
	Gary Lambert (sorry, but I don't like him -- he has all the 
	personality of a prawn on the barby) out of the Moussy ad
	and put Swords in.

	Pain is good for you -- it builds character, extends your 
	limits, and keeps your ego in check, because it reminds you
	that you are indeed mortal.


	Nice to see the South Africans back in World Rugby.  Although
	the addition of a formerly banished Super Power will set the
	Eagles back a notch, it will raise the level of the Sport...

	
	Curiousity question:  Are there any Americans on the Barbarians?
	And who is the uncapped player on that squad?  (By tradition,
	one of the Barbarians is always an uncapped player.)


	My hamstring feels a lot better.  In fact, no more twinges.
	The week off didn't do my lungs very much good but it did help
	the hammer.

	
	Like Madge, I seriously doubt the Yanks will win the next World
	Cup, although it would be wonderful if the Cup could be held
	here sometime.  I'd just like to see us hold the All-Blacks to
	less than 30 points, and to give the Wallabies something that
	resembles a game....


	Prediction:  Watch for some new, young blood on the Eagles over
	the next couple of years.  Watch for some Eastern players, as the
	ERU has been dominant of late....


'Saw
8.2001SASE::SZABOMon Mar 02 1992 11:5616
    Geez, I take some time off to "get my xxxx together", and I get back in
    here and see my name associated with motor oil...
    
    BTW, what a coincidence about motorcycles and broken collar bones
    (playing rugby).  I just happened to have broken a collarbone (among
    other broken bones) from riding a motorcycle.  Well, not really "just"-
    it happened in '79 (4 months before wedding day- think my bride was
    concerned? :-)).  And, wasn't from riding either.  Let's just say that
    a person of the female gender :-) decided to block my right of way with
    an object of much greater mass, and I did a wallenda into nowhere...
    
    Getting right back on a motorcycle with shoulder brace and chest wrap
    still on is a lot like rugby...
    
    Hawk
    
8.2002RUGBY1::wayHand me down my shootin' iron...Mon Mar 02 1992 12:1313
Actually, a broken collarbone is one of the few injuries that I've seen
sideline ruggers.  The problem, I think, is that you cannot adequately
immobilize the break, so continuing contact would just keep breaking
whatever has started to heal.

Shoulder separations are another injury that I've seen sideline ruggers.


Other stuff (including broken hands) just seems to get taped up, and
in you go.....


'Saw
8.2003PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 02 1992 12:3613
8.2004Betcha sentence is more than gettin his pee pee whacked!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 02 1992 13:2714
    
    found in the local paper NOT filed under the "kindler-gentler side" of
    Sports and Rugby in particular.
    
    Don't remember the exact words but if pleaded with, will try to bring
    in the whole thang tomorrow.  Here's the gist:
    
    (AP) reprted that some rugby player in England is going to trial
    because he injured a player during a rugby match!
    
    Hal Tried Hard(tm)
    
    Kev
    
8.2005CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsMon Mar 02 1992 13:359
There was a case several years back brought against a Met Union player.

It didn't involve a criminal action, but there was a civil suit.  The
Union did suspend the player (for either life or a long time, I think).

Mac, do you remember that one -- where the guy got kicked in the face?


'Saw
8.20067389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 02 1992 13:505
    
    Criminal actions must be alot like Rugby!!!!!
    
    ;^)
    
8.2007CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsMon Mar 02 1992 14:0715
It's probably not a lot different from some of those hockey
situations where one player will press charges against another...

In rugby there are stiff penalties for fighting, or misconduct, and
if it is serious enough, or habitual, teams can be tossed out of the
Union, and announcement goes out that no one is supposed to schedule
matches with them and things like that.

If you fight in a game, and the ref catches you, you are tossed from the
game.  In addition, you incur a one-game suspension.  If things are 
bad enough, the situation can be reviewed by the Union I think....


hth,
'Saw
8.2008PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 02 1992 14:258
    Each Union has a Disciplinary Committee.  They review reports from
    referees (primarily) and decide on appropriate actions.
    
    There have been a few civil suits here in the States as 'Saw pointed
    out.  I haven't heard of any outcomes yet.  This situation did help
    usher in the USARFU requirement that all rugby clubs have liability
    insurance.  At least they did negotiate a decent group rate and didn't
    just go tell everyone to get their own policy.
8.2009CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsMon Mar 02 1992 15:3055
			Numbered For Life


Rugby is a running game, but not everyone travels at the same speed.
No-one knows this better than the schoolmaster in charge of the
beginner's class.  It is September, and thirty boys aged eight and nine
stand shivering before him on the edge of a windswept field.  The
annual casting session is about to begin.

The schoolmaster has learned to be quite ruthless in his task of selection.
If Nature had not given him a helping hand by moulding
boys in several distinct shapes, his job would be a lot more difficult.
Fortunately, Nature has done her bit more than adequately with this year's
intake and he knows he would be a mug not to take full advantage.

Seconds later, the four tallest boys have become second-row forwards.  Next
come the props.  The four fattest boys, also presumed the slowest, are
appointed.  They seem delighted, within the limits of their intelligence,
and immediately retire to one side and start butting each other.

Now it gets harder, because the mast in charge is looking for ball-players
he can turn into half-backs, but he has little to go on except the 
brief kickabout he allowed before the squad lined up.  Two or three
boys boys had looked vaguely promising, he remembers, and on the
further basis that they are of average height, they are told to be
scrum-half or stand-off.  Another boy who was seen to catch the ball when
someone punted it to him becomes one of the full-backs.  The other
is the boy who punted it.  

Next the master chooses his wingers.  This he does by a slightly different
process, which involves a subtle piece of applied psychology.  The boys he
picks are undoubtedly the biggest weeds in the group; every one physically
is a broken reed -- sniveling, knock-kneed, spiritless, arms clutched
across his puny chest to keep out the wind, eyes staring down wetly and
with extreme distaste at the alien grass.  All four look perfect
for the part, and the master has to hope that there are no freaks among
these boys who really would like to play rugby.  For this is the critical
point:  they have been turned into wingers because it is assumed that they
hate the whole idea of the game and, in time, when they have learned
to cope with the extreme loneliness out there on the touch-line, will feel
only gratitude that no-one wants to give them a pass, and at the same time
admire the beautiful symmetry of playing opposite a boy of equal weediness
who will never need to be tackled.

Seventeen or eighteen boys have now been placed in the field and given
a mission in life.  The rest are pushed around them like pieces of 
temporary filler, and now the boys are ready for their first taste of
the real thing.




Reprinted w/o permission from "Bedside Rugby" by Bill Beaumont

8.2010CTHQ3::LEARYBeano:PreventGasBeforeItStartsMon Mar 02 1992 15:5011
    Well 'Saw,
    The guy I know from Beacon Hill was working out the other night
    and he says they'll be down in DC in March and Newport in May,
    and will eventually kick yo' butts in one of these tournaments. 8^)
    And he's a certified RugbyKrishna. As he was leaving he turns and
    says to me, "Remember, rugby is a way of life" (Actual quote).
    Another glazed-looked one.
    
    
    MikeL
    
8.2011CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsMon Mar 02 1992 15:5519
>    Well 'Saw,
>    The guy I know from Beacon Hill was working out the other night
>    and he says they'll be down in DC in March and Newport in May,
>    and will eventually kick yo' butts in one of these tournaments. 8^)
>    And he's a certified RugbyKrishna. As he was leaving he turns and
>    says to me, "Remember, rugby is a way of life" (Actual quote).
>    Another glazed-looked one.
    
There was a time when Beacon Hill was a better club.   I like playing
them because, as I've often mentioned, we have a great rivalry and
a fine social relationship.....


And your buddy is more right than you realize.   The very fact that he
was in the gym is because of rugby.......    8^)


'Saw

8.2012with or without light......7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 02 1992 15:5912
    
    
    Bedside Rugby.......
    
    Sounds a lort like my luv life.....
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    panting,
    Kev
    
8.2013FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Mar 02 1992 16:023
    But 'Saw, how did they pick the hooker?
    
    Ninj
8.2014CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsMon Mar 02 1992 16:058
Didn't say.

Probably, before the advent of your SupersonicNukeWideBodyStud hooker
like Phil Kearns, they just picked the smallest kid who wouldn't mind
getting squished between to fat boys....8^)


'Saw
8.2015BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 02 1992 19:0919
You know, running quarters is like rugby...

Last night I went (actually, Sassy and I went) to the track at MIT and
I did some quarters.  She did a few quarters and spent some time searching
in the grass for snacks.  

During different parts of each quarter I focused on different parts of
my stride, applying things we've been doing in the gym with plyometrics (sp?).
100 metres per  of driving off my feet (butt kicks), long strides  and high
strides (high knees, lunges), fast turnover.  When I put them all together
my legs actually got moving pretty fast with lower effort, I really had to
work my arm swing to keep balanced.

Sassy, of course, could catch up to me from way behind.  She doesn't think
about her stride at all, she just runs with her ears flopping and her tongue
hanging out the side of her mouth.  But she does quite well.  I think if she
were a person, she'd be an outside center.

Rachael
8.2016TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Mon Mar 02 1992 19:277
The outdoor track at MIT?   Bbbbbbbbrrrrrrrrr.

I thought I was nuts going to some dingy Jr. High School to run quarters on an
11 laps/mile track!  At least I was indoors.

Do they have an indoor track?  They have one at Harvard, and it is as nice as 
any I've ever been on.
8.2017BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Mar 03 1992 12:1117
I think you're nuts, too, to do 11 laps per mile.  I've never run on Harvard's
indoor track, but their outdoor track is really nice.  It's so spongy, I'm sure
I run faster on it.

There's an indoor track at MIT.  It's an eigth of a mile.  I hate running on an
indoor track, unless I'm doing short distance work.  It wears out the left side 
of my shoes.

Running outside doesn't really bother me at any temperature, although my 
performance will vary.  It's about a mile from my house to the track, so I was 
pretty well warmed up by the time I got there.  Plus it wasn't that cold Sunday 
night.

I hate being outside when it's cold and I'm not moving, though.  I am so 
psyched it's March and will be getting warmer sometime.

Rachael
8.2018RUGBY1::wayYou'll be left with empty armsTue Mar 03 1992 12:3018
The track in the gym at Bulkely HS is 1/10 of a mile.   I never bother to
count laps though, when we run our timed miles.

I run at my pace (which the last time was quick for me, around 8:15) and
I count how many times the leader laps me.  then, when he is done, I do
that many more laps.



Got back in the gym last night, and learned a knew tricep exercise with
dumbells.  (A couple of dweebs were hogging the pulldown machine, and I 
didn't wanna wait through 57 more sets of seated rows to do tricep pushdowns).


The rest of the workout went fine.....


'Saw
8.2019TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Tue Mar 03 1992 12:496
The eleven laps per mile stuff is a drag.  I agree, I can't wait until it gets 
warmer out, and I can run my speed work outside.  I have to admit though, at the 
beginning of winter it feels good to know that you are getting outside on days 
that most people wouldn't think of it.

=Bob=
8.2020Mix BreedAXIS::CHAPPELFor DUTY and HUMANITYTue Mar 03 1992 13:0819
8.2021PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 03 1992 13:202
    I wonder if last night's snow is going to put a damper on our first
    official training session tonight.
8.2022RUGBY1::wayYou'll be left with empty armsTue Mar 03 1992 14:026
Well, Mac, you could always exercise your option to exercise your ebbo.

I'll even buy your first.....8^)


'Saw
8.2023for a good time, try it w/o spikes in the rain! 7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Tue Mar 03 1992 14:4617
    For a sprinter, the 11 lap track is absolute heaven!!!!
    
    Start in the middle of the straightaway, blast towards the turn, enter
    the turn and drop your left shoulder and power drive through with high
    elbow pumps.  Coming off the turn feels like a downward slope and
    another blast-off through the straightaway.
    
    My high school had a wooden 11 lap track in the parking lot every
    winter, modelled after the same in the "old" Madison Square Garden so
    we had a slight "advantage" when indoor track meets were held.
    
    Absolutely the most exhilarating (sp?) experience *IF* the track has
    banked turns,
    
    
    Kev
    
8.2024RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOGetting Rich: The United WayTue Mar 03 1992 14:4810
    Rach -
    
    A tip.  Don't stop after yo do the quarters.  Make believe the finish
    is 50 feet beyond the line.  Run through, then walk/jog the interval to
    the next one.  Resist the temptation to search for lost objects on the
    ground.   Will make the workout much better - and achieve more.
    
    HTH
    
    JD
8.2025BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Mar 03 1992 14:5613
I think indoor tracks might be good for sprinters with a short expected 
career.  I can't stand having my legs do different motions consistantly,
all my joints complain.

I jogged a quarter, then ran 4, then ran a really slow 800, then jogged another
quarter.  I was walking 100 meters between the quarters I ran (as opposed to 
jogged) Then we ran home.  Next time I'll take your suggestion and jog between 
quarters.

Mac, maybe it'll all melt by tonight!  Have fun.  We're in the tiny gym
again, I don't think it'll be too bad.  Probably a lot of stairs, though.

Rachael
8.2026TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Tue Mar 03 1992 18:267
Knock yerself out on those turns Kev.  My knees and ankles hurt at the end of 
every workout on the 11/mi track.  It is, however, better than doing no speed
workouts at all.

Mac it really is quite warm out.  Certaonly no reason to call practice.

=Bob=
8.2027Short lived fun while it lasted7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Tue Mar 03 1992 18:5133
    
    Another great thing about those 11 lap tracks is when (so I heard cause
    *I've* never been in such a situation) ya are running against a tall
    fast guy, ya know maybe 5'8" or bigger ;*) who can run so fast the
    rubber soles can melt.  The thang to do is run the 1st straightaway
    like it was a 50 yard dash then (staying in your lane of course) slowly
    drift towards the outside of your lane making Mr. Speedo run about
    3 yards further. (Naturally this assumes you're quick enough to hit the
    turn first and own the inside).
    At the straight, if all went well, You'd have about a 2-3 step lead
    over Mr. Speedo.  Go like a bat outa hell and by the time ya get to the
    nexted turn Mr. Speedo would probably be either a half step ahead or
    maybe at your shoulder.  Same maneuver on the turn = 2-3 step lead in
    your favor.  Repeat process. Frustrate Mr. Speedo.  Hand baton (if
    relay race) to next runner. Stop.  Smile (no make that BIG SMILE)
    at Mr. Speedo.
    Wait for Mr. Speedo to say, "You just wait for outdoor track".
    Remember this moment because on cinders you know you are TOAST!
    
    standard disclaimer - The above instruction is purely fictional and any
    similiarity to any person(s) living or daid is purely coincidential,
    especially if anyone ever watched the (indoor) Nat'l Juco Track
    championships '72 and the Queens-Iona relays (outdoors at Randalls
    Island '72)!
    Further disclaimer - Mr. Speedo DID run a 47.something outdoors and
    absolutely roasted, toasted, sliced and diced.  As a matter of fact, 
    the ~20 yard lead went POOF! before the end of the first turn.
    :*(  
    
    I remain,
    shorter than Mr. Speedo by at least 6 inches (in height)
    Kev
    
8.2028CAMONE::WAYYou'll be left with empty armsTue Mar 03 1992 19:0134
Randalls Island was your hook into the rugby note Kev 8^)


All I can say to that is to re-tell the story from my first rugby
season.


Chris McGrath was our A-side fullback, and he was, on any given day,
one of the three fastest guys on the team.

After the Beacon Hill game, I asked him as I got into my first beer,
what it was like to be fast.  I said, just once before I'd die I'd
like to know what it's like to burn someone, flat out on the run,
and feel FAST.

He looked at me, and perhaps thinking back to my game against Old Gold,
he said "What's it like to hit and totally crush someone with all your
weight and might?"

I smiled a broad smile, and looked at him and said "It's the GREATEST
feeling in the world."  

He replied "That's what it's like to be fast"



The only way my soles would melt would be if I left them in the sun
too long.   Hell, I'm so slow, entire species have evolved while I've
run the quarter....


8^)

'Saw
8.2029BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Mar 04 1992 11:3415
Saw,
	When you talk about how slow you are I think of you talking about
how fat you are and I just go phtt!  You don't have much credibility for
lack of athletic prowess anymore, now that I've seen you.

Kev, I remember doing that to not one, but two girls at the indoor track
at the University of Maryland when I was in high school.  I think it was
the indoor version of the half-mile, and I kept pushing them out and
staying just ahead.  Boy were they pissed.  One managed to pass me in the
last straigtaway, and one didn't.  

We actually had a fun and not too hard practice last night.  Two more sets
of stairs, but pretty easy other than that.

Rachael
8.2030PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 04 1992 12:327
    They must have chillers under the turf at WPI.  I think it was the only
    place in town still covered in snow.  We practiced anyway and got some
    good work in.
    
    Looks like I'll have to pass on the Other Place again tonight.  I'd
    have to leave real early anyway and I should hit the gym before going
    to the WRFC Excecutive Committee meeting.
8.2031RUGBY1::wayYou'll be left with empty armsWed Mar 04 1992 13:0016
Rachael,

I *AM* slow.   Believe me, entire species have evolved while I've run
a mile.  Rich Gedman lapped me in the 100 yard dash....8^)


But, wif all this working out I've been doing, I'm gonna make a new (sort of
borrowed) motto for myself:

	
		I may be slow, but if I catch ya, I'll kill ya!



8^)
'Saw
8.2032TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Wed Mar 04 1992 13:147
Rachael

I agree. After meeting Saw for the first time lasted night, I would say that he
appers to be a fine specimin of athletic prowess.   I think this slow thing is
just a case of anti-reverse sand bagging.

=Bob=
8.2033RUGBY1::wayYou'll be left with empty armsWed Mar 04 1992 13:381
OUCH!!!!!!
8.2034Would you repeat that in a high-level corporate meeting?SASE::SZABOWed Mar 04 1992 13:381
    Rich Gedman did WHAT to you, 'Saw?
8.2035RUGBY1::wayDread ChainsawThu Mar 05 1992 12:5018
Regarding the question of removing the tape from your ears....


It doesn't really hurt that much.  There's a couple of reasons.  First,
by the end of the game, you are usually sweating like Dominique.  That
has a tendency to loosen up the tape a little.   But more importantly,
the rest of you hurts so much that you really don't notice a little bit
of prickly things as you take off the tape.

What REALLY used to hurt was when I was getting my hand taped.  We didn't
use pre-wrap (Real Men don't) and man would that sucker hurt when I'd
pull it off....


Hope dis helps, mon....


'Saw
8.2036BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Mar 06 1992 11:1210
    My shoulder hurts today.  I think it is fatigued from doing thousands
    of pushups.  I'd best watch my form, I must be doing something uneven.  
    
    Practice seems to be getting easier.  I thought we were doing less, but
    my roommates think we're just getting used to it.
    
    We are giving a coaching clinic at U.VM this Sunday, we're expecting
    upwards of 60 college players.  It should be a fun time.
                      
    Rachael
8.2037RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Fri Mar 06 1992 12:0918
I bagged practice last night.

I had to go over to my brothers with some anti-viral software and ended up
being there longer than I planned.  Plus I'm a bit sore from Wednesday
night's workout.


I'm having some serious motivational problems this spring.  Part of me
wants to play, and the other part doesn't really care.   I think it might
be because this fall I'm going back to school and I know that's seriously
going to affect my availability.

We have had several guys on the team doing the school thang, and the best
they can manage is showing up on Saturday hoping to get a game....


sigh,
'Saw
8.2038"Drink-ups" sure cure for anestithizing (sp?) pain!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Mar 06 1992 12:1023
    
    Found in the "you gotta be kidding department"
    
    Today's Glob has several ads in the sports section for folks interested
    in doing severe damage to their body.  Interested?  Contact the folks
    in the following organizations:
    		Worcester Rugby Club
    		Mystic River Club
    		Boston Wimkmins Rugby Club (Rach, did I mess up the name?)
    		Some other club, I think it was the Fall River Contingent
    
    So, if the idea of black and blue marks, cuts and scratches, bruises
    and probable broken bones, tape burns and maybe missing teath really
    sounds attractive and not to be passed up, call now!
    
    Operators are standing.......
    
    ;^)
    
    I remain,
    intact!
    Kev
    
8.2039And remember, Life is to short to stay small...RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Fri Mar 06 1992 12:1816
Kev, I hate to burst your bubble, but most of the pain comes the
morning after (and not from the hangover).

I've never busted a bone playing, but I can honestly say that from the
end of the game, through the drinkup, until I get into bed on Saturday
night, I feel a tad tired, mabye a little stiff if the front row has
been testy, but not much pain.

Sunday morning however.....   Get me some Motrin wif my scrambled eggs...



But hey, no pain, no gain....


'Saw
8.2040people can be soooo cruel!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Mar 06 1992 12:2610
    'Saw,
    
    Don't sweat it.  My bubble was bursted when I was told I couldn't play
    center in the CYO basketball league cause I wasn't too tall!
    (Shocking revelation)!!!!!
    
    I remain,
    stunned!
    Kev
    
8.2041SASE::SZABOFri Mar 06 1992 12:5416
    Yesterday afternoon, as I pulled into the Northeatern U parking garage,
    I noticed what appeared to be a 1st of the year practice gearing up on
    the adjacent (soft, muddy) field.  What caught my attention was this
    overgrown Caucasion football that a couple of the guys were kicking,
    not passing, around.  I watched a bit out of curiosity to what they
    were going to start-out doing, but they were still trying to get
    organized, and I had a friggin lab in 5 minutes.  Tried to get the name
    of the club from someone's jacket, but it was a bit too far to read. 
    Looked almost like Brockton, maybe?  Definitely started with a `B', but
    it wasn't Boston (it had at least 7 or 8 letters)...
    
    The way the lab went (sucked), I would've been better off practicing
    with these guys... :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.2042TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Fri Mar 06 1992 13:324
8.2043BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Mar 06 1992 19:2821
8.2044EDUOZ::THURGARFri Mar 06 1992 23:278
    'Saw
    
    Kernsie would never quit.
    The All Blacks never quit.
    Plus I want to see you getting your butt kicked on your tour of
    Australia. Now you cant deny me that pleasure.
    
    Madge
8.2045I still cain't pull the needle out...RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 09 1992 10:3029
Well, Madge and Rachael, you both provide fine arguments.  

Rachael, I don't have a personal life ;^)

Madge, I think it was the comment about Kearnsie that clinched it.  And you
forgot to say that the Wallabies never quit -- I think a certain mate of
mine had totally swayed me to the "proper way of thinking".

btw, I'm sporting my Kearnsie haircut again.  Saturday morning, with nothing
better to do I went to the barber shop.  I hadn't been in for about six
weeks, but the barber remembered me, and just how I like my hair....


Friday night was good in the gym.  I've been blasting my chest lately,
simply because it seems like the right thing to do.  It was also heavy
squats night, and I set a new PR.  (I've still got a ways to go before
I max out....)



So, in case anyone is wondering, and knowing that the Chainsaw does not
quit, I'll be at rugby practice on Tuesday night!


'Saw


PS  Madge, it doesn't take a bunch o' Aussies to kick my butt.  All it takes
    is someone who knows the game better than I (which is just about everybody)
8.2046BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 09 1992 11:2111
'Saw,
	I'm so psyched that you are rejuvanated.  I've never really felt like
quitting but it does get quite overwhelming at times and I did take a season
off from club and play with MIT a while ago.

	We gave a clinic at U.Vm. this Sunday, for U.Vm, Dartmouth, Middlebury,
and Amherst.  We had 72 college players attend, and it went really well.
We are giving a second clinic for the upstate NY region two weeks from
now in Albany.

Rachael
8.2047RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 09 1992 11:2918
Thanks kiddo.

I'm not really, but I figure that sometimes, when the going gets really
tough, you have to "dance with the one that brung ya".  Rugby has done
a lot of things for me:  self-confidence, got me in the gym where I'm
putting on lotsa muscle, given me a different outlook on life, helped me
make new friends....


So after all that, to just quit wouldn't be me....


So, despite the hard times, I'm gonna do what I always do:  bear down,
tough it out.   The "front row of life" can't be any harder than some
of the front rows I've faced on the pitch....


'Saw
8.2048Image is everything...SASE::SZABOMon Mar 09 1992 11:3510
    'Sawmain, I really think you should become a trend-setter/fashion plate
    for the sport of rugby by letting your hair grow wicked long and grow a
    beard.  Be radical.  Way too many pretty boys on the pitch.  It's a
    psychological edge too- unruly hair, scruffy beard.  You'd be one
    feared wild main (kinda like that rassler King Kong Brodie, or whatever
    his professional name is these days).  Add a haid twitch and a mean
    growl/grunt, and you be wicked....
    
    Hawk, who'd grow his hair down to his butt-cheeks, if he could...
    
8.2049RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 09 1992 11:4322
Hawk, 

I hate to burst your bubble, BUT, if you look at any of the pictures of
past Wanderer teams, say mid-70s, that's exactly what you will find.


The first fall I played, one of my teammates had wicked long hair.  Then
he cut it.  It was too hard to tape up with all the hair....


But probably the BEST argument against it, was the story I've heard several
times.  Back in the mid-70s, there was a winger with a wicked long
pony-tail.   One day he was flying down the sidelines, sure to score,
when the only oppoenent close to him made a last second, desperate lunge.
He grabbed the pony-tail, and the try was prevented.....


Nope, the look that's "in" now is the Phil Kearns look 8^)



'Saw
8.2050Dare to be different!SASE::SZABOCassandra is such a babe!Mon Mar 09 1992 12:138
    Yabbut, that was the '70s, and it's now the '90s.  I think a revival is
    in order.  And, to go with the look, part of your uniform should be
    bell bottoms.  On the sidelines, you should wear a very-worn jean
    jacket, with flowers and cannibis leaves, of course.  Actually, I think
    Rachael would look rather dashing in such garb...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.20516602::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 09 1992 14:537
8.2052England is 5 Nations Champ6602::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 09 1992 15:302
    England captured their 2nd consecutive Grand Slam in the 5 Nations
    Tournament with a 24-0 victory over Wales.
8.205319226::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 09 1992 15:3220
Re the guy from Danbury.


That's Jerry Garcia.  Well, that's what everyone calls him.  He's a prop,
and probably the most talkative s.o.b I've ever run into.  He's pretty
funny.

The most displeasing thing about that game was that he was their loosehead,
and I was playing tighthead.  I'd get into the scrum sucking serious wind,
and all his hair would get into my mouth...

YUK...


I prefer the Phil Kearns look.  I may not be able to play like him, but
it's much better to look good than to play good, and Dahling, I look
Mahvelous!


'Saw
8.205426372::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 09 1992 16:2315
8.205526372::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 09 1992 16:242
PS I think 'Saw looks really cute with his hair short.

8.205619226::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 09 1992 16:3412
I got on the scale on Sunday and weighed 245.  I'm sure some of it
I picked up while away at training.  But the rest is muscle....


Rachael, a TON?  Boy, do you make me feel light....8^)


I'd like to get my fat pinched too, but unfortunately, they don't have
XXL calipers....


'Saw (who's probably 50% body fat)
8.2057best giggle in weeks!!!!!!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 09 1992 17:0010
    'Saw (who 's probably 50% body fat)
    
    Yeah, in yo dreams dude, you get down to 50%
    
    ha ha ha 
    
    I remain,
    svelte!
    Kev
    
8.205819142::WAYSon House RULES!Mon Mar 09 1992 17:047
Yeah, hahahahah...


I'm jiggleward(tm)!


'Saw
8.205960528::THURGARTue Mar 10 1992 01:119
    England Five Nations Champions and still the 4th best side in the
    world.
    'Saw glad to hear about ya hair cut. Mine is a Chris Mullins 'do
    (really wicked). Kearnsie would love it. So would MAB (where are you)
    as you look like Michael.
    Current weight 175lbs (still cant gain weight - negligible body fat).
    Hawk sounds like he is built like a zipper.
    
    Madge
8.206015558::SZABOCassandra is such a babe!Tue Mar 10 1992 11:4213
    > Hawk sounds like he is built like a zipper.
    
    Hmmm, this requires alot of deep thought.  Any type of zipper in
    particular?
    
    BTW, my 'do: reverse mohawk au naturel.  Gets awesomer every day. 
    Kearnsie would love it...
    
    Also, current weight: 190 clothed.  Desparately seeking a mutual pinch
    test relationship, plutonic, of course...  :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.2061RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Tue Mar 10 1992 13:0415
Madge,

175 and cain't gain weight?  Lift, mate, lift...


I went to the gym last night and had a MONSTER workout.  It was a heavy
chest night, and I think I got over one of the plateaus I was at.
Also did light squats, which believe it or not, are tougher than heavy
squats, because you do 'em long enough to get a burn....

Everything else I just attacked....   Still have to work on my stomach,
though....


'Saw
8.2062BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Mar 10 1992 15:526
8.2063Uh, his weight goes up and down?? 8^)CTHQ3::LEARYBeano:PreventGasBeforeItStartsTue Mar 10 1992 15:551
    
8.2064RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Tue Mar 10 1992 16:3918
Personally, I don't really know.


I know there's a few harmless little American words that would cause an
Aussie lass to slap one's face if uttered in her presence, but I don't
know about zipper.

Then of course there is the age old story about our software (rdb?  dataheave?)
which had a definition of "wombat" as being something that "eats roots and
leaves".   The Aussies had a field day with that because the word "root"
down there has quite a different meaning.....



Okay, Madge, what's a zipper (or as they say in Massachusetts) a zippah?


'Saw
8.2065EDUOZ::THURGARWed Mar 11 1992 01:0113
    What the hell do you think a zipper is. Not as cryptic as it seems. But
    now Hawke has put his weight down in writing, he maybe bulkier than I
    imagined. 
    
    'Saw I lift 4 times a week, usually 1 - 1 1/4 hour sessions. Eat enough
    for three people. But no weight gain. Has to be my metabolism and being
    hyperactive.
    
    Gotta go for a swim (it is 98 F in Melbourne today)
    
    Haha
    
    Madge
8.2066BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Mar 11 1992 11:4519
Madge -
ha ha to you, too, Spring is coming here which means winter (if you can call
your other season that) is coming down there.  You'll have to start wearing 
your new jacket.  Maybe even a long sleeved shirt.

I was completely unpsyched for practice last night.  I thought I was going to
really drag my, um, behind, and I wasn't looking forward to it.  Turns out it
was great and I did  fine.  We worked pretty hard last night, starting out
with 16 sets of stairs and going through the entire range of torture including
plyometrics, running around (and around) (and around) the gym, several loops of
circuit torture (one min per of cone jumps, bench step ups, pushups, and leg 
exchanges) running lines, buddy resistance drills, and sprints down the hall of 
the school at the end.  Not too bad, probably just under 100 pushups total.

We really want to run over teams at Nationals.

Still too many weeks until our first match.

Rachael
8.2067SCHOOL::RIEUSupport DCU Petition CandidatesWed Mar 11 1992 12:243
       Speakin' a zippers. If Manute Bol stands sideways and sticks out his
    tongue, he looks just like one!
                                  Denny
8.2068If you don't hurl, you're not practicing hard enoughRUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 13:0797
Madge, re your swim:

	We have a little expression here in the States, and it's one
	that I reserve for people I call "mate".... It goes like this:

			DO ME!

8^)

	Actually, I can only imagine what it's like to be on the beach
	there in Australia, with some bitchin' babes all around, some
	fine Aussie beer in the cooler....(please don't tell me if the
	babes are topless, I don't think I could deal with that).



re Practice:


	I got home last night at 6pm, and almost fell asleep twice before
	leaving for practice.

	I think someone replaced Al Dekin with Josef Mengele, because our
	practice was Hell.   

	Have you ever seen the Gary Larsen "Far Side" called "Aerobics 
	in Hell"?  Where the devil says "Now, five million legs lefts, and
	four and three....."  That was our practice last night.


	We started out by running around the track.  Every four laps or
	so we'd stop for a power set.  A power set is pushups, situps,
	star jumps and squat thrusts.  First set was 15, Second was twenty,
	third was 30.

	Then a "quick stretch" with two more power sets (30s) embedded just
	to keep us on our toes.

	AFter that, running lines.  This was fun, because Al and another
	guy actually tried to "defend" against the lines, and several times
	I had to make quick passes (not bad for a prop) and got complimented.

	If you dropped the ball, your line had to do 25 pushups.  I guess
	I ended up doing 75 or so.  Our line did get out of doing one set
	on one drop though.

	We were running a line that's kind of like a football sweep.  As
	you pass the ball to the man on your right, you break from the line
	and sweep to the right, and you run up the sideline in file.  The
	last man on the right makes a little pop up pass to the first guy
	in the file, then drops back to the end of the file, while the
	ball is popped up all the way down the file.

	Anyway, I was behind Glen Judge, and we were running flat out.
	I couldn't believe I was keeping up with them.  Most times, I'm
	a tad farther back that then other guys, so the guy giving the pass
	puts jus a little bit more height on the pop pass (say head high
	instead of chest high).  I called for the ball and Glen gave a 
	normal pass.  Not thinking about the gym floor (rubber composite)
	I extended as far as I could, the ball brushed my fingertips and
	was gone.

	Realizing I was going down (and it would be fast and hard) I managed
	what was probably the most athletic move of my life, by pulling my
	arm back in quickly, tucking and rolling.  I came up after one roll
	and the F word quickly and forcefully came out. 
	
	I figured it was another 25, and it was all my fault.  But Al said,
	no pushups guys.  If you're diving for the ball, we'll let it go...

	Phew.

	After that it was rucking and mauling.   And then fitness.


	Fitness was cruel.  We ran a bunch of suicides, then partnered up.
	I partnered with a friend of Mac's, Pete Wrabel.  We're close to
	the same size.   We ran a ton of piggy back drills and stuff.
	Then more suicides....  Then more piggy backs.   Then a couple of
	power sets.  Then more piggys backs...   


	Finally practice was over.   But the best was yet to come, because
	on my  way out to the truck, I found a nice little spot beside the
	building and did something I haven't done since a hot summer practice
	when I was in Midget Football in 4th grade... I hurled.


	The worst part about last practices like that is you go home, drink
	a bunch of water, go to bed, and you're so pumped you don't get to
	sleep for hours....


Gee, I wonder what Thursday holds!


'Saw
8.2069BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Mar 11 1992 14:266
re .2068

Saw, I'm jealous.  Sounds like excellent pain.  No wonder the Wanderers are
so good.  Can I print that and give it to someone? 

Rachael
8.2070Gotta love it -- Exquisite Pain....RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 15:1433
If you'd like.  

Al, our new captain is very hyped on fitness.  I have to say that missing
some practices has hurt me this season, because I'm the last one in everything.

However, I have one rule -- never quit.  I don't care if I have to crawl on
my hands and knees to finish a drill, I will never quit.  I'll die before
I'll quit.  If that's all I can offer to the team, well, that's the best
I can do.


I honestly believe that the Wanderers are not that far away from the day
when they will play for the National championship.   If our fitness improves,
and if we can continue to play heads-up, Wanderers style rugby, I have no
doubt that we can play with the likes of OMBAC and Old Blue.

Mystic was great this year, but we are not far behind Mystic in terms of
ability or fitness.  Mystic has some GREAT backs.  However, I remember
a year ago, we owned Mystic for 60 minutes, and only were tied on a late
penalty to them.


I hope Mystic takes it all, because that will show the Wanderers just how
close we are.   

I may only be a C side player, who's out for fun, but I do believe in our
team...


'Saw


PS I hope I don't hurl on Thursday night -- I'd hate to make a habit of it...
8.2071BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Mar 11 1992 15:436
We usually have one or two of our newer players who are last in drills, we'll
all be standing there while they  struggle in.  They will commonly get an
honest and respectful round of applause for their efforts, and for not quitting 
when it is so hard for them.

Rachael
8.2072RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 15:5314
Yeah, I get a lot of that, even though I'm not new any more.

I was driving home last night, wishing I'd have brought along some money
to stop and buy some 10K or something, and I was thinking how old I felt.
I'm getting into the best shape of my life, but I'm working out with
wunderkinden!

I'm usually last, either me or Joe Norton, but I'm still working at it....

I have noticed that as hard as the drills are, I'm still giving it 100%
and it seems just a wee bit easier than last year....


'Saw
8.2073Been there. Felt alot like rugby!SASE::SZABOCassandra is such a babe!Wed Mar 11 1992 15:5520
    > I'll die before I quit.
    
    Reminds me of the 1st day of JV basketball tryouts, my sophmore year
    (uh-oh, another high school story!).  The coach was a real asshole who
    got off on seeing kids in pain.  Anyway, he had us runing wind sprint
    after wind sprint after wind sprint until kids were literally dropping. 
    But, if you dropped, you knew that you could pretty much write off
    making the team.  So, I pushed myself until I puked, literally.  But
    the worst part was hyperventilating at the same time.  I really, really
    felt like I was dying.  I became very scared, but managed not to freak
    out and eventually composed myself, only to let the asshole have more
    sadistic fun.  A painful week later, I didn't make the final cut.  My
    disappointed didn't take long to turn into relief.  And, I wound up to
    be a team MVP and league all-star in CYO, not to mention the great time
    that I had.  The following year, Mr. Sadistic Asshole *asks* me if I'm
    trying out again, and I just walked away.  A month or so later, he was
    fired (parents fed up)...
    
    Hawk
    
8.2074CAMONE::WAYSon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 16:1516
I hear ya big guy!


There are limits, and a lot of people don't realize that if you 
constantly push to the limit, you're not gonna get anything out of it.

I was amazed to find out (a while ago) that when you lift weights, all
of your growth occurs on your rest days.....when the muscle builds back
up to handle greater stresses.


Our practices are definitely geared toward the A-side players, which
is good for everyone, but it's tough sometimes....8^)


'Saw
8.2075BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Mar 11 1992 16:556
'Saw, just remember:

Our A-side tighthead just turned 40.  And she plays more games per season than
almost anyone on the team.

Rachael
8.2076RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 17:1713
I always look at Doc.  He started at 27 (four years before I started) and
he's probably 46 now.  He's occasional A side...


My problem right now is that I'm trying to do what the A side folks are doing,
but I still don't have the "rugby fitness" base yet.  The guys on the team
have told me you don't start feeling that until after you've put in about
two years.  I've been at it 1.5 now, and I have been bustin' my butt lately...

I'll just keep on keepin on....


'Saw
8.2077masochists!!!!!GENRAL::WADEShe knowed he had a MercuryWed Mar 11 1992 17:304
    
    	Geez!  Glad I play softball........
    
    Claybone who had enough of that crap playing football! :*)
8.2078TNPUBS::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna be a sister!!!Wed Mar 11 1992 17:453
8.2079RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 17:5116
What I find to be the hardest thing is that, in the game, you never really
feel the hits, you feel tired but you don't feel dead, you feel sort of okay.

But practice...man I HATE practice....


Now, when you step off the pitch after the handshake...that's a different
story....8^)


btw, I read of an interesting ritual the Springboks do after test matches.
Just after shaking hands with their opponent, they give them a light 
head-butt....  interesting, eh?


'Saw
8.2080WRFC Spring '92 SchedulePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 11 1992 17:5420
    I think this is the final version of the WRFC Spring Schedule.  There
    are a couple of changes since I last posted it.
    
    March 14-15	St. Patrick's Day Tournament	Washington, D.C.
	  21	Springfield Rifles		Springfield, MA
    	  28	Connecticut Yankees		Stamford, CT
    April  4	MIT				Cambridge, MA
          11	Manhattan			Home
          18	Mad River 			Mad River, VT
          25	Charles River			Home
    	  26 Central MA Collegiate Tournament	Home (9 am)
    May    2	Rockaway			Home
           9	Albany Knickerbockers		Albany, NY
          16	New England Tournament		Newport, RI
    	  30	Old Gold			Boston, MA
    June   6	Portland Tournament		Portland, ME
          13	Alumni Social Event		TBA
    
    All home games are played at Quinsigimond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Matches start at 1 pm unless otherwise noted.
8.2081specially running to 1st base w/ a brew ! ;^)7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Wed Mar 11 1992 17:581
    
8.2082CAMONE::WAYSon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 18:4816
I don't have all of mine with me, but from memory:


	3/21	White Plains	Away
	3/28	Florida 	Away  (tournament, A side only)
	4/4	Manhattan	Away
	4/11	NYAC		Away
	4/18	Amoskeag	Home 

After that I forget.  I think we might be home for most of the rest
of the season.

Late in the season we host a team from Vancouver (eh)....


'Saw
8.2083IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomWed Mar 11 1992 20:245
    You host the Vancouver Cats on a Tuesday night in late May.  Their
    visit east is going mostly through Providence :-), who will be playing
    each other the following weekend.
    
    A&W
8.2084EDUOZ::THURGARWed Mar 11 1992 20:4514
    re: Zipper 8.2067 exactly - I have to build a mental picture of
    everybody, so that is what I thought Hawk lokked like. Next time you
    have a get together, take a photo and send it to me.
    
    'Saw - if any Springbok gave me a little headbutt (Liverpool kiss),
    there would be an all in brawl (from one who has had his nose broken by
    a similair incident). I also remember a great way for flattening your
    stomach from my karate days (real painful). They had a winch system
    with a rope which would be tied around your feet (with a towel so it
    didnt burn) and then you would be winched up and do situps in midair.
    Hardest part was try to stop spinning and avoiding throwing up. Try it
    you'll love practice after that.
    
    Madge
8.2085CAMONE::WAYSon House RULES!Wed Mar 11 1992 21:1425
Hey Madge!


Liverpool, eh?  They're my favorite soccer team!


I'm not a big headbutt fan either.  I'd prefer a high five...

I hear you on the situps.  We used to have ankle thingies with a hook
on them, and we'd hook over the pull-up bar.  Of course we didn't spin.

I haven't been in a brawl in a long time.  Usually I'm the one on the
pitch breaking everyone up....


So, how was swimming????


A&W, I couldnt' remember the name of the Vancouvoer(eh) team...


Probably not gonna make it to the gym tonight.....


'Saw
8.2086BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Mar 12 1992 12:3715
This morning on my chair was  a  1992 Royal Bank of Scotland
commemerative calendar for the men's World Cup.  It has  really
beautiful (large) pictures, including the haka haka and the Aussie dude
holding the world cup over his head.  I wrote the guy who left it for me
and told him I'm his best friend forever, it's really sharp.

Sigh.  I am changing rooms in my apartment at the end of this month, I am
looking forward to putting the calendar up in my spacious new digs.

Hey Mac, you'll be in Cambridge same day as we're home.  I think we'll go
later, you could probably catch our third game.  (I hope I'll be playing 
something fun in that, like #8 or scrumhalf)  We're two stops away on the
T.  I'll try to stop by Father's, too, and see you and my MIT buddies there.

Rachael
8.2087RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Thu Mar 12 1992 12:404
Aussie Dude, was Nick Farr-Jones, I *think*......


'Saw
8.2088Boston Irish Wolfhounds join NERFUPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 12 1992 13:1018
    Just when we thought we had the Fall League season all figured out, a
    new team has applied for membership in NERFU.  The Boston Irish
    Wolfhounds have been provisionally admitted (they'll be fully admitted
    once they fill out the paperwork and pay their dues) and have been
    assigned to Division II.  The Wolfhounds got started a couple of years
    ago as a touring side made up of Boston area players of Irish descent. 
    They primarily drew their players from Boston RFC, Beacon Hill RFC and
    Mystic River RFC.  Apparently their interests have gone beyond just
    going an a tour once a year and they have decided to form an offical
    club and compete in NERFU.  They won't be competing in the NERFU
    tournament since many of thier players want to keep their ties with the
    clubs they came from through the spring season.
    
    This now means the Maxwell League (Div. II) is back at 9 teams (MIT and
    HBS have been moved into the Graduate/Professional School League).  A
    motion was defeated to move Albany from the Maxwell League into the
    Sullivan League (Div.I) which would have left the Maxwell League with 8
    teams and put 9 teams into the Sullivan League.
8.2089Duz that mean ya STEEL ain't gonna play da Wanderer's?7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Fri Mar 13 1992 01:321
    
8.2090EDUOZ::THURGARFri Mar 13 1992 08:3915
    Rachael,
    
    That Aussie dude is Nick Farr Jones, captain of the Wallabies, captain
    of the World XV, very good school friend of one Madge. 'Saw thanks for
    setting her straight. Wearing that gold jumper must have loosened a few
    screws up there.
    
    Liverpool great soccer team, my favourite (come on you Reds - they are
    in the FA cup semi finals).
    
    Swimming was OK, I am not big on swimming. And I am more a lover than a
    fighter (and I have never been in a fight on the street in my life - in
    football - Yes, karate - Yes, on the street - NEVER).
    
    Meek and mild Madge
8.2091BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Mar 13 1992 11:1221
I know who NFJ is, I just didn't know him by sight.  That is, I know him by
reputation, I wasn't even sure which position he was.  But I know he's 
a great player and everybody was worried about his knee at World Cup.
The TV I saw the OZ-NZ game on was large screen, very grainy, and in direct 
sunlight.  Madge, I am so  wowed that you know him.  Can you get his autograph 
for me?  Do you still talk to him?  If so, let him know their play is  
inspiring.  I might even frame that picture,  I think it's so powerful.  

Saw, I showed our coach your description about practice.  Minus the part in
the beginning about the babes, those not immeshed in our soap opera might
not get the jokes.  She got a kick out of it.

I was barely moving last night.  My body was just tired out, and I didn't
perform very inspirationally in any exercise.  But I felt OK, we all have
good days and bad days.  It doesn't bother me to be lagging if it's from
working hard before.

So Mac, Betsy got home at 1 on Wednesday, what the heck were you guys talking
about for so long?

Rachael
8.2092RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Fri Mar 13 1992 11:1325
Gotta love the way the Aussies pronounce "Farr-Jones".  I mean, they
make it sound like he's a dude who just sauntered into town, six-guns strapped
on his hips, silver star on his chest, king of the wild frontier.

And boy did ol Nick blast his team after their first match against Argentina
in the WC.  I watched the game, saying to myself "I wish the Eagles could
play like this" and then Nick does the interview after the game, saying
in essence "We sucked at this, we sucked at that, and we sucked at the
next thing"

(Madge - do the Aussies use the word "suck" the same way we do up here?)


I haven't been in a fight in a while.  The last time I got popped in a game
the guy was gone before I knew he hit me, so it didn't make any sense
to track him down...


Madge, whether you're a swimmer or not, with today's highs only in the 30s,
hearing about your 98 weather really made me jealous.  Peronsally, I like
to body surf, but when I make it to shore, people have a tendency to
push me back into the water saying "Swim, be free....", and one time
they even reported that there was a beached whale on the shore...

'Saw
8.209360528::THURGARSun Mar 15 1992 20:1124
    Rachael,
    
    Nick FJ (actually it was just Jones then they added the Farr) and I
    used to sit next to each other in Biology at school. He got me thrown
    out regularly, I almost failed. My school biology book has his
    autograph on every page along with some sketchings (16 year old boys
    sketches that is - leave it up to your imagination). We see each other
    occassionally, next time we see each other I will get you his
    autograph, plus maybe one for 'Saw (even though he has an All Blacks
    jersey), I even want him to sign a poster for me.
    
    Yes sucked means exactly the same down here. I remember that interview.
    I was with a friend and I said to her that as Nick was waiting to be
    interviewed that he was extremely p*ssed off. I could read it in his
    face. God I have seen that look before when we played rugby at school
    together. And Yes he did rip shreds off the team. This girl was
    impressed that I could tell his mood just from the TV (but it wasn't
    hard).
    
    Just bought 4 videos of the World Cup (Mens). Aust V Ireland, All
    Blacks and the Final plus a compilation as well. You can see them when
    you come and visit.
    
    Madge 
8.2094Free fund-raiser!BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 16 1992 11:5216
OK, all you sports noters, don't next unseen this one.

Star Market allows promotions where you turn in your receipt with a coupon,
and the organizaton that distributed the coupon gets some percent of what
you spent.  

Beantown will be participating the last weekend of March.  Anyone who shops
at Star who would be willing to take the time to hand in their receipt at
the courtest desk for me, please send me your (real) address and I'll mail 
you a coupon.

Madge, that is so wild.  Someone who is famous so far away, and you've
known him since he was young.  Was he really outstanding as a young player?
Could you tell he'd go as far as he has, or did he develop later?

Rachael
8.20957389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 16 1992 11:588
    Sorry Rach,
    To the best of my knowledge, since my F-E-W does the food shopping,
    there isn't a Star Mkt. nearby Grafton/Shrewsbury/Northboro.
    
    How about a carnival instead?
    
    Kev
    
8.2096RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 16 1992 11:5914
Okay, Madge, ENOUGH with the All-Blacks jersey stuff.   I never knew what
REAL rugby was till I saw the Wallabies in this past WC.  (And in their
63-9 drubbing of the Eagles two years ago)...

(Have I done enough craven pandering now???? 8^))


Madge, we'll have to set up a swap, more pants for a jersey???  You know,
a Wallabies jersey?????


lemme know, mate....

'Saw
8.2097BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 16 1992 13:136
I have to just bow down and admire someone who can use "craven pandering" in
conversation.

And Kev', tell the FEW (fat enough wife?) to just head into town to shop!

Rachael
8.2098RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 16 1992 13:579
I have to give credit for craven pandering to MrT....  It's actually
quite a common sports expression.....8^) 8^)8^)


'Saw -- a CRAVEN Panderer


PS But I *do* know the origin of the word "Pander".  I should get points for
that at least
8.2099MCIS1::DHAMELSmith &amp; Wesson back-to-school-saleMon Mar 16 1992 14:078
    
    > But I *do* know the origin of the word "Pander".
    
    Me too.  It's what we Massachusettsians call a black and white
    bear-like animal that's native to Chiner.
    
    Dickstah
    
8.2100BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Mar 16 1992 14:422
Linder, thahs a pander in the yahd!

8.2101RUGBY1::waySon House RULES!Mon Mar 16 1992 15:3211
Actually, it comes from the character Pandarus in the play "Troilus
and Cressida" by Shakespeare.

Pandarus displayed the behavior commonly known today as "pandering", and
thus the word was coined....


Now, I'll go to Hahvahd Street and get em a pizzer and a beah....


'Saw
8.2102EDUOZ::THURGARMon Mar 16 1992 20:1327
    Panda - bear
    Pander - to pander
    
    'Saw - deal done. Should be the new jersey out soon. Might make a nice
    birthday present for somebody.
    
    Rachael. Nick was quite small at school. Good athlete (runner), didnt
    play in the school 1st XV (we won the championship that year, Phil
    Kearns also went to the same school, a few years after us and he also
    didnt make the firsts !!!!!). Just shows you how people develop after
    school. NFJ was quite a good high jumper and tennis player, fancied
    himself as a cricketer but played tennis instead. The thing that really
    annoyed me was the amount of work (political) that his parents did at
    the school to make sure Nick got far. Overall he is a very nice genuine
    person with a fierce competitive streak who grew and developed
    after the age of 18. We played a lot of football together at school.
    See each other on an irregular basis now. BTW he is a very keen
    gambler, almost addicted. For his bachelor party rhen went to the horse
    trotting races (very boring).
    
    If either of you come down to Aussie I wil try to arrange an
    introduction to NFJ for you. He has done me favours in the past.
    
    'Saw havent seen or heard from Phil in a while. But I believe he is in
    serious training.
    
    Madge
8.2103FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Tue Mar 17 1992 11:237
    Madge, but us New Englanders (New Englandahs) very often reverse the
    pronunciations - so that "ers" come out "ahs" and "ahs" come out "ers". 
    President Kennedy was a great example of doing this.
    
    I, of course, can do it without adding superfluous apostrophes.  :-)
    
    Ninj
8.2104CAMONE::WAYSon House RULES!Tue Mar 17 1992 12:0016
Madge, 

Sounds cool to me (re the jersey)...


Impressed with your NFJ stories.


BTW, what do you hear of the prop, Ewan McKenzie(?) [I know the first name
is right].

I've heard reports touting him as the next Captain when NFJ takes a year
off....


'Saw
8.2105PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 17 1992 13:386
8.2106WRFC @ St.Patrick's Day Tourney in D.C.PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 17 1992 14:4488
    I'm back from our annual Spring Road Trip.  With the miserable weather
    in our nation's capitol, I think I have the ball rolling for a match or
    two in a warmer climate for next year.  Temperatures never got above
    the mid 40s and snow flurries were in the air.  A strong breeze blew
    off the Potomac all weekend.  It was so cold on Sunday that most of us
    sat in the vans between games.  The Washington Irish are getting a
    little better at holding a tournament.  They did arrange reasonably
    priced accomodations for teams this year and had concession stands set
    up.  They took a step backwards though, with the unavailablity of free
    beer.  If there was a tournament party it was held on Sunday which is
    not very good for anyone outside of the D.C. area.  I left right after
    the tournament final and still didn't get home until 2:30 am.
    
    The WRFC touring party consisted of 22 members, but only 18 players. 
    Of those 18, there were only 5 real tight five players, so yours truly
    saw alot of playing time.  I played in every match at tighthead prop. 
    There were 5 divisions in the tournament; an A division which featured
    Division I powerhouses such as Washington, NOVA, and Mystic River; 3
    Open divisions which was basically everyone else; and a college
    division.  I think there were 8 teams in each division.  All matches
    were played with 25 minute halves.  If you won your first match, you
    were moved to the winner's bracket.  Lose and you were moved to the
    consolation bracket.  Lose again and you were out of the running for a
    trophy, but you would still get a 3rd match.  All teams were guaranteed
    2 matches on Saturday and 1 on Sunday.
    
    Our first match of the tourney was at 10 am on Saturday against Severn
    River.  For our first match of the season, we didn't do too badly, but
    we did play sloppily at times.  We allowed Severn River to tie the
    match up with a try with no time left.  Fortunately, their kicker
    missed a tough conversion which left the score at 10-10.  Ties were
    broken by a kick-off.  Each team appointed one player to kick a "field
    goal".  The first attempt was from the 22 meter line.  If each kicker
    missed or was successful, the placement for subsequent attempts was 5
    meters further out.  This would go on until one finally missed.  The
    Severn River kicker led off and missed wide to the left.  Our kicker
    went up to the line and proceeded to hit the upright with his attempt. 
    Each kicker went on to hit their next three attempts.  The Severn River
    kicker missed his next one and ours notched it through for the win.
    
    Our second match was against the Rochester (NY) Aardvarks who also won
    their first match of the day.  The game was never close.  The Rochester
    pack was very scrappy and did their best to try and disrupt us as much
    as possible but it didn't help the final outcome.  We won 22-4 with the
    Aardvards' only score coming on a defensive lapse by our backline just
    before the final whistle blew.
    
    Our third match was played at 11:30 am on Sunday against Chateauguay, a
    team from Montreal.  They were a young, spirited side and they did
    succeed in taking us out of our game plan abit.  After watching them
    defeat Roanoke (VA) on Saturday we decided our best option was to play
    10 man rugby and get their forwards beat up in the loose play for the
    first 20 minutes of the match.  I'm not sure exactly how or why, but we
    got away from this very early and got our centers and wings involved. 
    As it turned out, it didn't really matter.  We ended up winning by a
    score of something like 18-4 and earned a spot in the division final.
    
    In our 4th and final match of the weekend, we faced the Metropolitan
    New York Rugby Union's Under-25 Select Side.  They defeated Windover,
    the Upstate NY 1991 Div. II champ, in the other semifinal.  This team
    was talented, fit, and well coached.  Easily our toughest opponent of
    the weekend.  Their pack was huge, especially at lock.  One of them
    (Bill Ding I think was his name) must have been at least 6'4" and 285
    lbs.  They totally dominated play in the first half.  They were getting
    to the loose play in numbers and driving us off the ball.  Their fly
    half was very good with both his foot and his ball distribution and
    kept us pinned in our end of the field for most of the first half. 
    They took a 10-0 lead into halftime which could have been bigger if
    their kicker was more accurate.  The second half was pretty much a
    stalemate.  Both teams were showing signs of fatigue and I think they
    came out a bit flat at the half expecting us to lay down (most of their
    matches prior had been won by 20+ point margins).  We elevated our game
    a bit and shook off the intimidation of the first half.  The final
    score was 10-0.
    
    All in all, a very successful weekend.  We took home a second place
    trophy and a 3-1 record.  The only downers were a lack of participation
    by more members of the club (we had originally hoped to enter 2 sides
    and get a look at some players) and a knee injury to one of our backs
    during the finals.  I was personally happy with my own performance but
    realize I still need to work on my fitness (as does the whole team).
    
    New England was very well represented in the tournament.  Albany, Old
    Gold, Amoskeag, Mystic River, Charles River, New Haven, and Worcester
    were all in attendance.  Amoskeag took home a trophy for the
    consolation bracket in the A division with a 3-1 record (their only
    loss was in the first match), Worcester and Albany won 2nd place in
    their divisions.
8.2107BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Mar 18 1992 12:0312
Mac, congratulations on your successes at the tournament.  It sounds like a
really good time, although too cold.  I hate playing in cold weather.  I hate
being a sub in cold weather even worse.  

We have a new drill for plyometrics.  They're called FTD's.  You leap into
the air with your front leg bent and driving upwards, and the back leg
extended behind.  You're supposed to look like the little FTD (florist) symbol
when you're in midair.  The trick is doing them one after another on every
step.  They were hard at first because they are difficult to coordinate, but
once you get the trick they're just fun.  

Rachael
8.2108MAPVAX::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Mar 18 1992 12:5629
    I didn't think it was too cold to play, but the backs were complaining. 
    Based on the number of scrumdowns after knockons, I guess they had a
    point.  The worst was the waiting around for games to start.  Our first
    game on Sunday was delayed by about 15 minutes.  After getting a good
    warmup in I must have taken my warmup suit off and put it back on at
    least 10 times waiting to get on the field.
    
    The regular season starts on Saturday with a match against the Rifles
    in Springfield.  Looks like we'll only be taking 1 side.  Coach is
    getting organized.  I think he's finally heard enough grumbling about
    the neverending practice.  He had a schedule last night and stuck to
    it.  The first part was some pretty intense fitness work.  He says
    we're nowhere near match fit and we probably won't be until mid-season
    the way we're going.  He started out with some ball slipping and pop-up
    passing drills up and down the field to get everybody warmed up.  We
    then paired up and did sprints (10 and back, 20 and back, ... 80 and
    back) with the only rest coming when your partner was running.  One
    partner went out to the 10 yard line with his back to the rest of the
    group.  The other partner had to go in low and drive his partner for 5
    yards, go back to the start, drive again for 5 yards, and so on up to
    the 40.  Then it was a rucking drill in groups of 6 where the group
    would link up and drive into 3 players 20 yards out, turn around and go
    back to the start where another group of 3 was waiting, and so on
    through 4 groups and then repeat the whole sequence 2 more times.  Then
    it was on to running some lines followed by another rucking drill where
    1 player would drive into an oppenent, lay the ball back, a teammate
    would scoop it up and pop pass to another teammate on his right or left
    and then do this all the way down the field and back for awhile.  We
    finished up running unopposed up and down the field a few times.
8.2109RIPPLE::DEVLIN_JOGo Fordham Rams!Wed Mar 18 1992 14:445
    What is the FTD drill suppossed to achieve?  bouncing motions aren't
    that great for your muscles.   for the life of me, I can't understand
    what good they could possibly do, other than looking a little silly ;-)
    
    JD
8.2110RUGBY1::wayDon't hurt me, don't hurt me Johnny!Thu Mar 19 1992 11:3519
Okay, with the vote in South Africa yesterday to abolish aparteid, it looks
as if the Springboks will be playing rugby in the world again.

This is going to make things VERY interesting (and shove the struggling
Eagles down one more peg)....

Anyway, opinions, ideas, statements on the chances that the Rugby World
Cup of 1995 will be played in South Africa?   If I were a betting man,
that's where I'd be putting my hard earned cash....

They say the best pitches in the world are in South Africa (although I 
know for sure our pitch at Dillon Stadium in Hartford last May was sweet).


I bet the folks who make the decisions on WHERE are drooling right now
with the prospect of having the tournament on those pitches...


'Saw
8.2111ftd'sBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Mar 19 1992 12:4711
    re:  FTD's
    
    You're not supposed to be pounding up and down.   You're supposed to
    have enough drive to do it lightly.  You have to work to drive your
    front leg up, and to extend your back leg.  I'm not totally sure what
    it's supposed to work, I don't question, I just do.  But if I had to
    guess, I'd say it's main purpose is running mechanics, to help you
    develop a powerful stride.
    
    Rachael
    
8.2112PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Mar 19 1992 12:534
    There is alot being made over SA coming back onto the International
    rugby scene and how they will once again be one of the rugby powers. 
    It'll be interesting to see how much lack of international competition
    for several years will effect this once great program.  
8.2113EDUOZ::THURGARFri Mar 20 1992 03:244
    SA have played rebel teams from NZ and have walked all over them.
    I think they will be very competitive.
    
    Madge
8.2114BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Mar 20 1992 12:4833
Wasn't the SA union integrated (in word, at least) many years ago?  My 
understanding was that the union was integrated, but a non-white person still
had a poor shot at making it due to discrimination at earlier phases.

Madge, did you get your tickets to Chicago yet?

Happiness is having the cost of our tickets to DC go from $268 to $120.  I
might just fly to Philly, now.

Our president and captain informed my roommate, who is in her fourth year as
an undergraduate, that the policy of the club is that she is more than welcome
to come to practice with us, but as MIT has a rugby club, she can't play for
us.  The idea is that it is not really good for anyone involved.  The college
player in general cannot afford the time and money to play with us.  As a
club team, having people who just play their senior year and then most likely
move on to another part of the country, is unsettling.  But the main reason
is that we, as a club, do not wish to sabatoge the collegiate programs and
tap off their best players in their last years of school.  It's an interesting
problem.  MIT is so bad, I don't blame Annette for wanting to play with us.
They don't really have a full side, so their practices and games are a little
wanting.  However, I stayed all four years on purpose, even though I was dying
to go play club, because I believed in what Beantown is saying.  If I had 
left when I learned enough about rugby to realize there was something better,
then I would not be helping keep my college team afloat, and might be ruling
out rugby for future generations.  I think Annette is worthy of an exception,
as she probably won't play rugby if she has to play for MIT, but I don't think
we can make exceptions.  It wouldn't be fair to other college kids who want
to play for us.  I think we already turned someone else down in the Fall. 

Very tough, we always want recruits, but we also want to foster the sport in
a less short-sighted way.

Rachael
8.2115S.A. is integrated in some respectsSALES::THILLFri Mar 20 1992 14:2010
Amazing that people are actually looking at the long-term growth of the sport,
which seems al the more rare these days.

Re integration in South Africa, I think rugby is somewhat integrated, but soccer
is really the most truly integrated sport. S.A.'s most popular club, the Kaiser 
Chiefs, have been racially integrated for at least 15 years. The supporters are
mainly black, but also include some whites and Indians as well. Other teams 
with primarily white suport have black and Indian players as well.

Tom
8.2116PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Mar 20 1992 17:0520
    I for one agree with what Beantown is doing, Rachael.  As it turns out,
    we're going to be facing a similar situation in Worcester.  A senior
    from Holy Cross and another from WPI have expressed interest in playing
    for us.  I don't think either has played rugby before.  Both have been
    informed that their colleges have programs and that WRFC players are
    coaching at those colleges.  Both said they'd still rather play club
    than college rugby.  Definitely something to bring up at the next WRFC
    Exec. Comm. Meeting.  The WPI kid is going to get an earful before
    then...
    
    If I remember correctly, there were two unions in South Africa.  One
    was aligned with the Apartheid government, the other was much more
    liberal.  I believe they have since merged and there are integration
    requirements for clubs now.
    
    Madge, I realize there have been rebel tours to SA, but I still
    question the competition level.  Many of the top players did not leave
    their respective countries either due to personal beliefs or fear of
    repurcussion at home.  I don't think those rebel sides were
    representative of true international level competition.
8.2117EDUOZ::THURGARSun Mar 22 1992 01:257
    Rachael - You better send me that ticket to Chicago real quick,
    especially with the basketball playoffs just around the corner.
    
    SA made the semi finals in the cricket World Cup. I believe that they
    will be just as competitive in Rugby.
    
    Madge7
8.2118WRFC vs Springfield Match ReportPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 23 1992 13:0722
    Believe it or not, there was a rugby game in Springfield, MA on
    Saturday.  In fact there were 2, WNEC hosted someone too.  
    
    It was cold.  The ground was frozen.  There were patches of snow and
    ice.  Springfield kicked our butts.  It wasn't a pretty sight.  They
    scored on us in the first couple of minutes of the game and had a 9-0
    lead at half time.  We came out strong to start the second half but
    quickly faded into the lousy play of the first half.  The final score
    was 20something to 3.  Not a good day.  I played lock since we brought
    3 props, 2 hookers, and only 1 lock.
    
    Our second side was made up of primarily Holy Cross College players. 
    They put out a valiant effort against a more experienced Springfield B
    side.  They managed a comeback in the second half and tied the game
    with only a few minutes left to play.  Springfield scored on some poor
    cover defense to put the game away.
    
    Hopefully next week's game against the Connecticut Yankees will be
    better.  
    
    These late snows have forced another change in our schedule.  The game
    on April 18 against Mad River (VT) has been cancelled.
8.2119Providence v NYACIAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomMon Mar 30 1992 14:1951
    I spent Saturday afternoon bundled up on the sidelines of a pitch in
    Providence.  What follows is more of a scouting report, as Hartford
    plays NYAC in two weeks and I *think* I remember seeing them on
    Worcester's schedule as well.
    
    Providence won the A-side game 7-0.  They won the B-side game 4-0, but
    the game was whistled up by the ref about 10 minutes into the second
    half (more on that later).  NYAC won the C-side game, but I don't
    remember the score.
    
    General impressions from the A-side game.  First of all, Providence is
    nowhere near as good as Hartford, which wasn't a surprise.  Providence
    won most of the scrums, generally by wheeling the scrum to the left. 
    The NYAC pack in general didn't seem to have a lot of strength.  Rucks
    and mauls were a little closer, but Providence had the edge there as
    well.  NYAC's backs were very quick and had lots of good moves for
    ducking away from tacklers.  They frequently got an overload, but then
    would run inside instead of outside, giving Providence a chance to get
    two or three guys on them.  I'm not sure if it was poor tackling on
    Providence's part, or good running on NYAC's part (probably a
    combination of the two), but once the ball got to the backs NYAC was
    off to the races.  I have a suspicion that there was a lot of dirty
    play going on amongst the forwards.  Wind and field conditions were
    definite factors in the game, and neither team could kick worth two
    cents.  I now realize just how much of a weapon Glen's leg is for
    Hartford.  :-)
    
    The B-side game was a mess.  NYAC came in with lots of high tackles (up
    around the neck), some forearm/stiff arms to the throat and chin, and
    generally really dirty play.  The ref warned several folks during the
    first half, and was trying to call a really tight game.  I saw inside
    punches in the pack during rucks and mauls, a couple of times two
    opposing players would bind on each other and even when they disengaged
    from the pack would stay locked up for quite a while.  You could kind
    of feel a fight coming.  About ten minutes into the second half, the
    ref whistled up a ruck, and the opposing packs didn't come up.  He
    whistled up twice more, the two packs continued to beat on each other
    (I suspect there were punches being thrown inside of there), and the
    ref called the game.  He did the right thing, even though it's the
    first time that I've seen it happen.
    
    By the C-side game, it had started to rain snow and was blowing hard. 
    Several Providence players realized that they'd seen me before
    someplace (the ancient rugger wasn't there Saturday, so I was on my
    own) and came over to talk and find out what was going on, so I didn't
    see much of the game.
    
    Fun afternoon in spite of everything.  Felt good to be prowling the
    sidelines again.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.2120PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 30 1992 15:278
8.2121WRFC @ Connecticut Yankees RFCPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 30 1992 18:3941
    Worcester RFC travelled to Bridgeport, CT on Saturday to take on the
    Fairfield County Connecticut Yankees RFC.  The Yankees were runners-up
    in the Met-NY Union Div. II and made it to the Final Four of the East
    Coast Div. II Championship last fall.  We played in some park on the
    shores of Long Island Sound.  The pitch was in pretty good shape except
    for one corner between the 22 and the goalline and from the touchline
    and extending out to almost the goal posts.  Here it was certified
    swampland.  The skies were clear, but there was a bitter-cold wind
    blowing all day long.
    
    We took the wind in the first half.  As ususual, we were giving up a
    bit of size in the pack.  The Yankees did a good job of retaining ball
    possession after the tackle and mauled well.  The scored a try fairly
    quickly to take a 4-0 lead.  Worcester came back on the strength of the
    rucking game and some good running from the backs.  We hit 2 of 3
    penalty kicks to take a 6-4 at the half.  The Yankees took advantage of
    the wind at their backs in the second half.  They kept kicking into the
    swampland near our goalline.  They exploited our weakness in our
    backrow (usually one of our strongpoints, but several of our regulars
    were not available on Saturday).  They hit a penalty kick to pull ahead
    7-6.  Then, after pinning us in our end, there was a lineout at the
    goalline.  We decided to go with a 2 man lineout and opted to throw to
    the second man.  The wind blew the ball back a bit and thier jumper
    ended up with it and just fell into the tryzone for the easy 4 points. 
    The conversion was missed and the score stood 11-6.  They kept up the
    pressure for the final 5 minutes or so and ended up scoring from a 5
    meter scrum with virtually no time left.  The conversion left the final
    score Yankees 17, Worcester 6.  It was by no means an excellent loss,
    but it was much better than the loss to Springfield the previous week.
    
    Our B-side was a combination of our own players and players from Sacred
    Heart College.  I almost went into this game just because it would be
    warmer playing than standing on the sideline watching.  Fortunately
    there were plenty of players and I just bundled up and cheered them on. 
    It was a fairly good match, but the Worcester team just didn't have the
    experience to match the Yankees and ended up on the short end of the
    score.  I'm not sure what the final was, but it was fairly close, 10-4
    or something like that.
    
    Next week it's off to Cambridge, MA to take on the Rucking Beavers of
    MIT.
8.2122Updated WRFC SchedulePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 30 1992 19:1326
    The WRFC Spring schedule has changed again.  Because of the recent
    return to winter in New England, Mad River had to cancel the game on
    April 18.  A touring side from the London, England area was still
    looking for a match that weekend to round out there tour.  We happily
    obliged them.  Below is the updated schedule.
    
    March 14-15	St. Patrick's Day Tournament	Washington, D.C.
	  21	Springfield Rifles		Springfield, MA
    	  28	Connecticut Yankees		Bridgeport, CT
    April  4	MIT				Cambridge, MA
          11	Manhattan			Home
          18	Belsize Park RFC (London area)	Home
          25	Charles River			Home
    	  26 Central MA Collegiate Tournament	Home (9 am)
    May    2	Rockaway			Home
           9	Albany Knickerbockers		Albany, NY
          16	New England Tournament		Newport, RI
    	  30	Old Gold			Boston, MA
    June   6	Portland Tournament		Portland, ME
          13	Alumni Social Event		TBA
    
    All home games are played at Quinsigimond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Matches start at 1 pm unless otherwise noted.

    
    
8.2123New England All Star Game April 5PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Mar 30 1992 19:153
    The New England Select Side will take on the Upstate New York Select
    Side on Sunday, April 5 at Quinsigmond State Park in Worcester, MA. 
    The game will kickoff at 12:30 pm.
8.2124I notice the WRFC dodged Haafa again! ;*)7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 30 1992 19:511
    
8.2125CAMONE::WAYShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Mon Mar 30 1992 20:1310
>                -< I notice the WRFC dodged Haafa again!  ;*) >-


Nope.  Hartford wouldn't schedule WRFC....



'Saw
    

8.2126I know...there are limits to how low haffa will go!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Mon Mar 30 1992 20:241
    
8.2127Clash of the Moderating Titans!SALES::THILLMon Mar 30 1992 20:285
That's too bad...We coulda had a "Clash of the Titan Moderators" or somethng
like that. Serious wagers could be made on head-to-head action and we could
see if Mac could contain Saw's agility on the fly-half prop side hooker position,
while bowling two overs, 643 in and none out, for 4 trys and a warm six pack of
Rheingold..... (or maybe Red Stripe, Mon) 
8.2128RUGBY1::wayShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Tue Mar 31 1992 12:5521
I keep telling you all that Mac would eat me for lunch, spit me up, and
eat me all over again.   Mac is a rugger extraordinaire.  Me, I'm just
chopped liver.


Mac's only problem is that he plays for Woostah.  If he was playing on
a Division I club that didn't have quite as much blatant politics concerning
selections (just a little of that behind the scenes stuff) he'd be golden.



But the real reason that Hartford wouldn't schedule Worcester was because
Hartford is really making a push to get to National Championship level,
and they felt that in order to do that, they had to confine their play
to very difficult opponents all the time.   Worcester was looked at as an
easy win (although that's not ALWAYS the case) and the last few times we
played them, we won.   Nothing against Woostah....



'Saw
8.2129poppycock!!! balderdash!!!!can you say chicken!!!!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Tue Mar 31 1992 13:3014
    'Saw,
    
    How much did MtW pay you to say those wonderful lies?  C'mon
    fess up boy, let the truth be known!!!!!!
    
    Like Jimmy Carter, in my heart, I KNOW the WRFC (and MtW) is skeereed
    of you nutmegs!!!!!
    
    I remain,
    knowing the rest of the story,
    
    Kev
    ;^)
    
8.2130PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 31 1992 13:404
    'Saw's exaggerating a bit.  I'd only eat him up once ;^).  For a guy
    that started playing the game as late as he did and with only a couple
    of seasons under his belt, I'm quite impressed with his play.  Don't
    let him throw you the Mr.T sandbag.
8.2131PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 31 1992 13:493
    Now Kev, don't make me tell everyone how you asked to play for the WRFC
    and mysteriously disappeared before the recruiting party was held,
    nevermind the first practice...
8.2132Rugby IS a strange sport....SALES::THILLTue Mar 31 1992 13:525
So you mean you only schedule top-flight teams, risking A_EXCELLENT loss instead 
of the Dean Smif school of thought where the more weaklings to beat up on, the 
better? 

Tom
8.2133RUGBY1::wayShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Tue Mar 31 1992 14:1033
All humor aside, Hartford is on a mission.  They want the National Championship.


Playing Worcester is fun, don't get me wrong.  And not because we win.
Worcester is a fun club, and I really envy the fact that they are a more
social club than Hartford.  


But, Hartford feels that to be able to compete fully against teams like
Life Chiropractic, Mystic River (who we do compete well with), Washington
RFC, and *especially* the West Coast rugby powers of Old Blue, OMBAC and
the like, they have to continually play against tougher, top flight
opponents.


That's why the fall schedule is filled with teams like Chicago Blaze and
the Chicago Lions....


So, no lies, Worcester didn't back off of us.  We didn't schedule them.




In Hartford, there are no excellent losses  8^)



And Mac, thank you for the compliment.....



'Saw
8.2134Some thoughts on scheduling philosophyPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Mar 31 1992 14:1744
    That depends on the time of year and the area of the country you're in,
    Tom.  Here in New England (and in the Eastern and Midwestern Rugby
    Unions) the Conference (there are 4 Unions/Territories in the US, each
    Union/Territory is divided into Sub-Unions/Conferences) establishes a
    league schedule for the Fall season.  In most places this means all of
    your games are league games and individual clubs simply cannot
    accomodate additional matches.  There is complete flexibility in the
    Spring with a couple of exceptions.  In general, teams try to schedule
    opponents they don't usually play in the Fall.  That can mean either
    scheduling a match with a team from another Conference or from another
    Division within the Conference.
    
    In Worcester we try to schedule oppenents from the neighboring
    Conferences of Metroplitan New York and Upstate New York.  We also try
    to get some games with the Division I clubs (we are in Division II) in
    New England and accomodate some foreign sides touring the US. 
    Scheduling these games accomplishes a few things.  We get to see teams
    and places we don't normally get to see in the course of our league
    season.  We get to see what the competition is like a level above us. 
    The latter helps our rugby developement because we feel the only way we
    can get better is to play better competition.  Of course, the Div. I
    clubs feel the same way so sometimes there are scheduling conflicts
    such as those seen with the Hartford/Worcester match that has been
    mentioned (and mentioned, and mentioned...).  The Division I teams are
    looking outside of their home conference to play the elite of the other
    Conferences.  This does present an added travel/financial burden on the
    participants of this truely amatuer sport.
    
    A couple of Springs ago, Worcester had an overzealous match secretary. 
    That Spring we played 2 touring sides and 2 Div.I New England sides
    (Boston and Hartford) in a 4 week stretch with both Div.I games being
    played away.  We had a couple of other matches against Div. I teams
    that year as well as some very tough out of Conference games.  I think
    we went something like 3-9 that year and might have scared off a few
    players.  The moral of the story is moderation in scheduling.  This
    season we play 1 touring side, the Div.II runner-up and USARE
    semifinalist from Met-NY (Connecticut Yankees), the Upstate NY Div. I
    champ (Albany), and Div. I clubs from Met-NY (Manhattan) and New
    England (Charles River).  We also have games against our Div.II rivals
    (Springfield, Old Gold), a Div.II team we didn't play last year because
    of the way the schedule worked out (MIT), and a Div.II Met-NY team with
    whom we have alot of personal ties (Rockaway).  Then of course there
    are the Washington, D.C. and Newport Tournaments.  All in all, a very
    balanced schedule.  
8.2135Spin Control, part XVIII!!!!!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Tue Mar 31 1992 15:001
    
8.2136CAMONE::WAYShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Tue Mar 31 1992 15:0517
>                       -< Spin Control, part XVIII!!!!! >-


Nah, just the facts.


Quite frankly, Hartford won't schedule Woostah.  I'm sure Woostah would
like to play Hartford, to improve their abilities, but because Hartford
has the same goal, there won't be a match....

Probably the easiest team Hartford plays this spring is Amoskeag.
And you can't take those boys lightly -- they have a helluva lotta fire.


'Saw
    

8.2137when you two gonna swap spit? Blecch!!!!7389::FARLEYSon,you can make hundreds o'dollars...Tue Mar 31 1992 15:451
    
8.2138CAMONE::WAYShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Tue Mar 31 1992 15:5612
>                 -< when you two gonna swap spit?  Blecch!!!! >-


actually, I've never had the pleasure of being on the pitch at the same
time with Mac.

He played B's last time Worcester played Hartford in Hartford, and he
played and I didn't in last year's CT Cup....


'Saw    

8.2139BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Apr 02 1992 12:5916
    For us, the Fall is the more developmental season.  We play our league
    games, but try to schedule some harder matches towards the end, since
    we go to Territorials in December, now.
    
    The Spring is vere intense.  We travel all over trying to get good
    games to prepare for Nationals.  We also have one big rival in the
    SouthEast, (FSU) but look to California for out hardest matches.  We
    are doing our fitness now to prepare to play a California team Memorial
    Day weekend.  
    
    Finally, this weekend, we play.  We are scheduled to play Philadelphia
    and Merrimack.  I'll believe it when I see it, Philly will have a hard
    time getting a full side up here.  We are doing everything possible to
    help, putting them up and  making players available for them to borrow.
    
    Rachael
8.2140game summary, April 4BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Apr 06 1992 12:3523
    shhh!  Be wery, wery qwiet, I'm hunting wabbits!


    Seriously now, we played Philadelphia for the A-game and Merrimack for
    the B-game this weekend, for the opening of our Spring season.  A fun
    time was had by all, I believe.  I got to play in both games, but not
    the usual way.  I played wing in the A-game, for Philadelphia.  I got
    beaten many, many times by my own teammates, but mostly on overloads so
    I didn't feel too badly.  Sometimes one-on-one, but not too bad.

    Then I played at flanker second game (for Beantown this time).  The
    great thing about the b game is the terrific support we got from the
    A-side in warmups and during the game, and the basic level of play
    itself.  Usually in the b game, we don't play too strategically, we
    just play solid, basic rugby.  Saturday, we did plays, there was a lot
    of communication, our newly recruited scrumhalf and flyhalf did
    awesome, our rookie #8 did awesome, and we all just had a great time
    playing together.

    Final scores, Beantown-Philly 	38-0
    		  Beantown-Merrimack    44-6

    Rachael
8.2141Probably not, but...SASE::SZABOFrank Way is the write-in way!Mon Apr 06 1992 13:484
    Rachael, is this Merrimack *College*?
    
    Hawk
    
8.2142WRFC @ MIT Match ReportPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 06 1992 15:1328
    For the first time since anyone in Worcester can remember, Worcester
    was defeated by MIT.  The final score was 19-9.  Worcester lost their
    composure during the game and it hurt them.  At least 6 MIT points (and
    perhaps 9) were directly attributable to players mouthing off to the
    ref.  MIT was coming off of a successful tour of Scotland and were
    fired up for their home opener.  They had the wind behind them in the
    first half, and an MIT alum blowing the whistle, and staked themselves
    to a 15-0 halftime lead.  Worcester regrouped for the second half and
    started taking advantage of the wind, but the hole they had dug for
    themselves on the scoreboard and with the ref proved to be too deep to
    climb out of.  Worcester scored a converted try and a penalty kick, but
    MIT put it away with a converted try.
    
    The B-side provided a bright spot for the WRFC.  For starters, it was
    the first match of the season that we were able to field a B-side with
    only Worcester players.  Only 5 or 6 of the first team had to pull
    double duty for the day.  The Bs rolled to a 13-3 victory.
    
    I'd like to thank John Hendry for stopping by and cheering us on.  I'm
    just sorry we couldn't show him a better game.
    
    Worcester's home opener is this Saturday against Manhatten RFC.  We'll
    be looking to end our 3 game losing streak.  We have to start turning
    it around soon as we're heading into the tough part of our schedule and
    are building towards the New England Tournament.  Game time is 1 pm at
    Quinsigamond State Park on Lave Ave. in Worcester.  Admission, as
    always, is free.
    
8.2143FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Apr 06 1992 15:278
    If this was football, part of my analysis would have been that the WRFC
    had trouble scoring once they were in the "red" zone.  There were at
    least 3-4 times in the second half when they had possession within 5
    yards of the goal line and couldn't score.
    
    It was good to be back watching rugby again.
    
    John
8.2144PRFC v Old GoldIAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomMon Apr 06 1992 15:2746
OK, so this week was Providence v Old Gold.  It was a PRFC sweep, in three
well-played matches.  A-side was 24-12, B-side was 21-6 (?), C-side was 6-0.

Play looked closer than the score was during the A-side game.  I spent most
of the second half talking with the Old Gold coach, and missed some of the
play.  Providence is still having trouble making their tackles "stick", but
it looked better this week.  Basically, seemed like Old Gold was having 
tackling problems of their own, and not doing well in their kicking game.  
Providence had a couple of break-away runs that resulted in most of their
scoring.  Things got real chippy 2/3's of the way through the second half, 
but the ref called in the captains promptly and got it back under control.

'Saw, there's another player out there who gets timed with a sun-dial.  
Saturday was my first opportunity to see the "ancient rugger" play.  After 
reffing the B-side, he played the C-side game.  He's late getting to the 
rucks and mauls, although he does a beautiful job of anticipating where the
play is going to be.  But once he got there, Providence would start to 
really move forward.  

Biggest controversy of the day was when the "ancient rugger" sent off a 
Providence player (forward-type) during the B-side game for doing a 
slam-dunk on an opposition back.  The back had just kicked the ball 
down-field and was running up to get everyone onsides.  In evading one PRFC 
player, the back ran into another guy from PRFC -- totally unintentional 
contact in the ref's opinion, and he was watching the whole thing from less 
than 5 yards away.  The PRFC player took offense, and as the back ran past 
him, reached out and grabbed him by the neck of his jersey and introduced
the back to the ground rather forcefully.  Whistled up instantly and sent
off.  Doesn't help that this particular player has a reputation for a bad
temper.  And the "ancient rugger" is of the opinion that PRFC needs to play
the game a lot 'cleaner' than some of the club is wont to do.  Made for a 
couple of interesting conversations during the drink-up.  :-)  [Just for
'Saw, he did call the offsides correctly for the whole game -- I watched
for it  :-p ]

It may take me a while to live down the drink-up.  :-)  'Twas a great, great
party.  Some guy sat down at the piano and we had a sing-a-long, with your
friendly reporter the one who knew most of the words to most of the songs.
And I generally knew who was ahead during the NCAA basketball.  And when
the singing was over, I was the one who started the dancing......and there
weren't very many dancers.  At least I danced with several of the guys - 
but for good swing, it was just me & the "ancient rugger".  :-)  We'll find
out the next time I show up.

A&W

8.2145Some New England NewsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 06 1992 15:2829
    In New England rugby news, I hear that Boston stomped all over Mystic
    River on Saturday.  On several occasions in the scrum, the Boston front
    row had the entire Mystic front row up in the air and going backwards. 
    The ERU champ Mystic River RFC is having some tough times this spring. 
    They certainly haven't been building any momentum for the Final Four.
    
    The Selectside match (All Star game) between New England and Upstate
    New York wasn't played on Sunday afterall, but trials were held.  It
    wasn't as "open" as I'd hoped as there were some noticable individuals
    and clubs missing and the coach appeared to have a team already picked
    out.  As is the case with most Select sides, it's not so much what you
    know, but who knows you.  A little over 30 players showed up on the
    field on the banks of Lake Quinsigamond in Worcester.  It was a cold,
    blustery day.   Some coaching and drilling was done while the field was
    occupied by a match between the Worcester Faded Blacks and the
    Connecticut Greys.  Once the Old Boys match ended, there was a
    scrimmage between those showing up for the trial consisting of 2 30
    minute halves.  I played for the second 30 minutes.
    
    Even though I wasn't selected, I'm glad I went.  I picked up a couple
    of good drills to use at my college practices.  I showed myself that I
    can still scrummage with the big boys and that I need to work on my
    fitness.  I even got an "attaboy" from the coach on my scrummaging
    work.  I have to give some of the credit to the Charles River lock
    playing behind me.  All I really had to do was prop, something that I
    haven't had the luxury of doing the past couple of weeks.
    
    A couple of my teammates had a good showing.  I'm pretty sure they'll
    get invited to the ERU Under 25(years old) camp later this month.
8.2146We've had better days...PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 06 1992 15:4317
8.2147merrimack and nerfu tryoutsBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Apr 06 1992 18:2518
    Merrimack is a club team, no school affiliation that I know of,
    although they tend to be a little younger on average than the other
    clubs.  I think that's just because they're a relatively new club,
    though.  
                      
    Sunday was also tryouts/practice for the NERFU women's select side.  I
    went, even though New England has two Eagle flankers and another two on
    Beantown who are better than I am.  We scrimmaged for 4 short halves
    with different combinations.  They selectors tend to already know how
    most of the players play, they just want to see how some combinations
    work together.   It was pretty laid back and fun to play with different
    people.  I have no idea what the results will be.  They may not make
    cuts at all, to increase their flexibility, or they may cut a few.  I
    am coming to grips with the fact that, given my competition, I may
    never make the ERU.  I decided to try out anyways, just for fun and for
    the experience, but not to worry about the outcome.
    
    Rachael
8.2148RUGBY1::wayShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Tue Apr 07 1992 16:478
You know, I hate to say this, but it sounds like Boston's pack
might just be becoming awesome.  They manhandled us last fall.

Our excuse was a broken scrum-sled and not enough live scrumdowns, but
now I don't know....


'Saw
8.2149Made me glad I wasn't playing LHPPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 07 1992 17:252
    I think the tighthead prop that was at the trials on Sunday was from
    Boston.  He was HUGE.
8.2150RUGBY1::wayShore,Schmidt,Orr,Espo,Cam,Moog,GOD!Wed Apr 08 1992 13:5211
Not much you can do under a huge guy like that, especially if he
decides to push and not just lean in.....

I guess all you can do is to try and get your head into his sternum and
push up....  

The other alternative is to see if you can't get the hooker to give him
a good knee to the nose... that'll slow him down a bit 8^)


'Saw
8.2151NERFU Welcomes Richard TarditsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 10 1992 14:3027
    There is a new addition to the New England Rugby Football Union (NERFU)
    slate of officers.  Richard Tardits has been named Public Relations
    Coordinator.
    
    Some of you may ask, who is Richard Tardits?.  Well, I'll tell you.
    
    Tardits is a linebacker with the New England Patriots.  Richard grew up
    in France and played rugby.  At the height of his career, he was named
    to the French National Under-21 year old side.  He then visited the US
    and liked it so much he wanted to stay and attend college.  But, he had
    one small problem - no money.  He found out rather quickly there were
    no scholarships for rugby.  So, while visiting the University of
    Georgia he noticed some people playing American Football.  He thought
    it looked similar to rugby and got himself a tryout.  He earned a spot
    on the team and a full scholarship.  He played football in the fall and
    rugby in the Spring.  He graduated in 4 years with a BS and an MBA and
    was drafted by the Phoenix Cardinals.  He was left unprotected after
    his first year and was picked up by the Pats via Plan B and has been
    with them for about 3 years now.  
    
    Richard is playing rugby with Mystic River this Spring.  The Pats know
    he is playing, and he knows that an injury in the spring could
    jeopardize his playing career (but so could a traffic accident).  He
    says his first love was rugby and life is too short to worry about the
    what ifs.  It also helps to have a real degree to fall back on if
    something did happen either on the rugby field or on the football
    field.
8.2152FSDEV::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Apr 10 1992 15:180
8.2153FSBIC::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Fri Apr 10 1992 15:299
    I lost the link when I tried to enter this the first time.  Richard
    Tardits is one of the few current players I've met and I think he'll be
    a tremendous asset to NERFU.  I ended up sitting next to him at
    breakfast when I last travelled with the team to a game (1990 in
    Montreal) and he is bright and articulate with lots of off-field
    interests.  Not only that, the waiters thought he was tremendous
    because he spoke to them in fluent French.
    
    John
8.2154IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomFri Apr 10 1992 16:269
    Wow.  I'll have to try and catch Mystics down at the tournament.  :-)
    
    For those in the Worcester area, I'm planning to be at Worcester's game
    tomorrow and next Saturday.  As always, any Sports Noter who wants a
    running play-by-play of the game is encouraged to come out and stand
    next to me, and I'll do my best to explain what-in-the-h*** is going
    on.  :-)  Come meet Mac the Mod, A&W, and whoever else shows up!
    
    A&W
8.2155WRFC vs. Manhattan RFCPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 13 1992 14:3940
    When is spring ever going to arrive?  More cold temperatures, sleet,
    rain, and snow greeted Worcester for their home opener.  The
    precipitation did pretty much stop for the games and the wind wasn't
    bad, but boy was it cold.  
    
    The day started with a match between Worcester's Under 18 year old side
    vs. Marshfield.  Everything that could go wrong did.  Their uniforms
    hadn't arrived, the referee hadn't arrived, and their players were
    still arriving by the scheduled kickoff time.  This is Worcester's
    second season with an U-18s side.  Last spring, they played under the
    auspices of St. Peter Marion HS, but with a football player going down
    with a knee injury, the AD decided to terminate the program so it is
    now completely under the umbrella of the WRFC.  I don't know what the
    final score was, but they lost by quite a bit to a more experienced
    Marshfield side.
    
    WRFC took on Manhattan RFC looking to snap their 3 game losing streak. 
    Manhattan plays in Div. I of the Metropolitan NY Union.  The first half
    was fairly even.  Worcester put alot of pressure on Manhattan and spent
    quite a bit of time in their end, but generally came up empty. 
    Manhattan, on the other hand, were very efficient whenever they got
    into Worcester territory.  Manhattan blew the game open in the second
    half with effective use of the rolling maul and the quickness of their
    backs.  I think the final score was WRFC 6, MRFC 27.  On the positive
    side for Worcester, this was our best performance since the Washington
    Irish Tournament.  The forwards played much better as a group than they
    have over the past 3 weeks.  Our scrummaging was vastly improved as
    well.  I'd like to thank A&W and Ninj for coming down to cheer us on in
    that weather.  My wife and daughter didn't even stick around for the
    second half (and I can't blame them).
    
    Neither Manhattan nor Worcester had a full B side, so both teams filled
    in with first side players and played shortened halves.  I ended up
    refereeing the match.  It seemed like a better alternative to playing a
    second game or shivering on the sidelines.  It wasn't a pretty showing
    for the Bs.  The forwards were getting pushed all over the field and
    the backs weren't getting good ball.  Worcester's usual depth in the
    forwards is very much lacking this season.  The final score was
    something like WRFC 8, MRFC 28 with Worcester's two tries coming in the
    last couple of minutes of the game.
8.2156IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomMon Apr 13 1992 15:3525
    Interesting weekend.  I had failed to wear my long underwear, and a
    pair of extra socks that I *thought* were in my pack, weren't. 
    Fortunately, at the last second Saturday morning I dumped my down coat
    in the car on the off chance that I would need it.  I did :-), but I
    was still cold.  :-(  
    
    Interesting game at Worcester.  A lot of the mauls were very loose and
    untidy, on both sides.  Manhattan won it on very speedy backline play. 
    Sounds like it's a good thing I didn't stay for the second game.
    
    Sunday I spent down in Providence at their college tournament.  Again,
    far too cold, but at least this time I had prepared for the weather. 
    Started by watching a semi-final between Brown and Army that was tied
    at the end of overtime.  Brown won it based on having scored the first
    try.  The Division I final was between Brown and Harvard, and Harvard
    won handily.  The Harvard team was big and very well coached.  There
    were a few times when a lack of backfield kicking hurt them, but not
    badly enough to matter.  The Division II final was won by Colby against
    Plymouth State.  That was a much closer game (final score difference
    was 4 points, I think).
    
    Today, I'm glad I have a job where I sit down - my legs are tired from
    two days of walking up and down sidelines.  :-)
    
    A&W
8.2157PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 13 1992 15:385
8.2158IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomMon Apr 13 1992 15:555
    It was about third on the depth chart of tie-breakers.  Everything else
    had been even.  They had the tie-breakers posted, so everyone knew
    before hand what the story would be.
    
    A&W
8.2159EDUOZ::THURGARMon Apr 13 1992 22:556
    Have a look at note 8.2152.
    Very slow to write one note.
    Obviously a master piece in the making.
    I cant wait for it.
    
    Madge
8.2160Gene Shalit is a lot like rugbySHALOT::MEDVIDNew Dream Date LogThu Apr 16 1992 16:331
    
8.2161RUGBY1::waySchmiede, mein Hammer, ein hartes SchwertFri Apr 17 1992 15:5111
I think it's great that Tardits is involved.  I've followed his story
since 1988 when I was in France.  He was a guest commentator on the 
French broadcast of the SanFran-Cincy Super Bowl, and he did a segment
in his underwear explaining the equipment as he put it on.   He was at
Georgia at the time.


Mystics have got a good one.    What position?  Flanker?  Or Center?


'Saw
8.2162PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 17 1992 15:573
8.2163CAMONE::WAYSchmiede, mein Hammer, ein hartes SchwertFri Apr 17 1992 22:2814
Somebody sent me this great issue of Rugby World and Post with a picture
of Will Carling on the front, autographed by Will Carling.


To whomever did that, my humblest and biggest THANKS!   I thought it might
have been Madge, since he's gone to school with just about every
international rugger that speaks anything resembling English (well, it
seems that way....)


Thanks again, to whomever!


'Saw
8.2164EDUOZ::THURGARTue Apr 21 1992 01:0013
     'Saw thanks for the ego boost, but I only know a few of the Wallabies,
    most of them are pretty average approachable people who like rugby and
    enjoy a beer. It helps having gone to a respected rugby school and
    university. So you get to meet people. Most of them dont speak English
    though - Ausspeak would be better.
    
    If whoever sent you that mag has another copy I would really like it
    (face it 'Saw I am jealous).
    
    BTW the World XV crushed the All Blacks in the first game, something
    like 28-16. Good entertaining game.
    
    Madge
8.2165RUGBY1::waySchmiede, mein Hammer, ein hartes SchwertTue Apr 21 1992 12:0513
Madge,

Pretty average approachable people who just happen to be world champs 8^)


Ausspeak -- I like that.  Actually, I could sit and listen to Aussies talk
all day long.  Same with the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish.  I've always
been fascinated by our "English" language, that has so many variations....

I've also been fascinated by Australia since long before Crockodile Dundee!


'Saw
8.2166Beantown goes to Chicago.BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Apr 21 1992 15:3827
We met our first real opposition this weekend, Chicago and the (Minnesota)
Amazons.  In Chicago.  An A and B game both days, except their B games only
had a few new players in them, it was more like tired-A games.

We beat the Amazons in the first game, but not very well.  They beat our
B side (me) 16-0.  We played much better against Chicago, and the A side
beat them by a better point spread.  Then, the B-side tied in a truly exciting
match.  The people on the sides said it was the best game of the weekend.
I know I had an excellent time, I was playing #8 and was incredibly fired
up.  My tackling was finally on, for the first time this season.  I was running
like hell and diving into the loose.  The rest of the team was at the same
level, and we had a hell of a time.  The ending was a heartbreaker, though.
It was 0-0, we had a 5 metre scrum, and we were walking it in.   I had the
ball well in control under my foot, and all of a sudden our scrumhalf picked
it up and tried to run it in.  She got flattened, a scrum was assigned to us,
and then no-side blew.  I almost cried.  But she's (the scrumhalf) a rookie
and is doing really well... I wanted to kill her for a few minutes but 
eventually became more charitable.  I appreciate the fact that she is willing
to take risks when she plays.  It  makes for a better game in general.  And
we shouldn't have had to win it in the last 5 seconds.

Sigh.  I wanted it.

Biggest problem against the Amazons was trying to tackle incredibly fat women
who turned and set their butt into me.

Rachael
8.2167Belsize Park RFC @ Worcester RFCPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Apr 21 1992 16:3924
    Worcester RFC hosted Belsize Park RFC from London, England this past
    weekend.  They were a great bunch of guys on and off the pitch.  They
    are in the middle of a 2 week tour of the Northeast US.  They started
    the tour in Boston and defeated Old Gold 30-9.  They then went on to
    Lake Placid, NY and defeated the Saranac Lake Mountaineers.  They
    arrived in Worcester on Friday from Lake Placid.  They left Worcester
    yesterday for the Big Apple and a meeting with the New York RFC this
    Saturday.
    
    The weather on Saturday was the best we've played in all spring.  It
    almost qualified for spectator weather.  It was overcast and on the
    cool side with very little wind.  According to the Belsize players,
    this was the best rugby they had so far on tour.  The game was very
    closely contested with the lead changing hands a couple of times.  The
    highlight of the game was probably a Worcester try where it seemed that
    just about everyone on the team handled the ball.  Belsize employed the
    traditional English mauling style while Worcester attacked with the
    ruck.  The final score was Worcester 21, Belsize 22 with Belsize
    scoring the gamewinner, an unconverted try, with about 2 minutes left
    in the match.
    
    I was glad to spend some time with 'Saw and A&W on the sidelines during
    the match.  Thanks to both of you for coming out.  It's nice to have
    spectators at a match.
8.2168IAMOK::WASKOMGoofy's MomTue Apr 21 1992 17:248
    It really was a beautifully played game.  It's the first time I've seen
    mauling really used a lot, and it impressed me.  WRFC picked up their
    play a *ton* from the previous weekend -- best I've seen them play yet. 
    Worcester had some excellent chances to go ahead in the last few
    minutes, but fine defensive play by Belsize Park kept them from getting
    in.  
    
    A&W
8.2169Need info on women's teams in Seattle.BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Apr 21 1992 17:318
'Saw or Mac,
	Could you look up what's listed for women's teams in Seattle for me?
I have had someone interested in the information for ages, but I don't have
the National directory and I keep forgetting to ask my teammates.

Thanks,

Rachael
8.2170CAMONE::WAYSchmiede, mein Hammer, ein hartes SchwertTue Apr 21 1992 17:4714
>It was 0-0, we had a 5 metre scrum, and we were walking it in.   I had the
>ball well in control under my foot, and all of a sudden our scrumhalf picked
>it up and tried to run it in.  She got flattened, a scrum was assigned to us,
>and then no-side blew.  I almost cried.  

The only person that hates this more than a #8 is a front row player.
You see the goal line go by under your feet, you know you've got about
two steps more to go, you're pushing so hard, you're breathing heavily,
and expecting the whistle any second, then NOTHING.

You pick your head up and say "What the F***?"


'Saw
8.2171CAMONE::WAYSchmiede, mein Hammer, ein hartes SchwertTue Apr 21 1992 17:5230
>'Saw or Mac,
>	Could you look up what's listed for women's teams in Seattle for me?
>I have had someone interested in the information for ages, but I don't have
>the National directory and I keep forgetting to ask my teammates.

I'll try to post it tomorrow...


re Worcester:

	GREAT game of rugby.

	The try that Mac mentioned was truly highlight film material.
	The back line on that run was superb, and the support from the
	forwards was incredible.  The fullback finally touched it down,
	after he cut in the afterburner, center post....


	The rolling maul is a great way of carrying out an attack.  It
	is almost indefensible (usually have to go down and start
	pulling legs down -- illegal but it works).


	I could not get over the number of English players who came
	off the pitch and lit up cigarettes.  If I smoke, I feel
	it big time the next day when I run.  These guys play,
	then light up -- unreal.


'Saw
8.2172Women's team in SeattlePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 22 1992 13:5512
>	Could you look up what's listed for women's teams in Seattle for me?
    
    Puget Sound Breakers
    c/o Sue Brooks
    705 N.62nd Street
    Seattle, WA 98103
    (206) 781-0504
    
    Other Club Contacts:
    Billie McCallum		Marie Bussard
    H:(206)789-9396		H:(206)632-1407
    W:(206)255-3817
8.2173CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed Apr 22 1992 17:2724
Mac,

Can you give us a rundown on the new rules:

What I remember is:



	1. Try worth 5 points.

	2. If a ball is fielded in front of the 22, then the player
	   runs behind the 22 to kick for touch, and it goes directly
	   out, the lineout is where the ball was fielded.

	3. Lineout taken where it went out or any place farther beyond.


	4. No "fakes" on the scrumhalf picking up behind the scrum.


What else?


'Saw
8.2174More on 1993 Law changesPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 22 1992 17:5021
8.2175Law Changes for 1993PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 22 1992 17:5784
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 162.83                      NEWS and VIEWS                         83 of 93
TRUCKS::SANT "Drainpipetrousertastic!"               18 lines  16-APR-1992 08:30
                          -< Changes to the laws... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	Also from the IRB meeting in NZ...
    
    	Tries next season will be worth five points. All others remain
    	the same. 
    	Players will not be allowed to kick direct to touch from within
    	the 25 if they have received the ball outside the 25 and taken 
    	it into the 25 for the kick.
    	Some penalty offences (mostly set-piece offences I think..) will
    	be down-graded to free-kick offences.
    	Lines-out can also be taken from any point "behind" were the ball
    	actually found touch. Make sense? I haven't explained that too
    	well...
    	
    	There are more but those are the main ones (ie. the ones I can
    	remember!)
    
    	Andy.
    
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 162.84                      NEWS and VIEWS                         84 of 93
HEART::DIDCOCK                                       14 lines  16-APR-1992 14:51
                              -< More new rules >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	No dummy-passes from base of scrum (no doubt that's why England
    dropped Hill,  in the expectation that he'd never be able to change his
    game).   
    
    	Also, you don't have to wait for the rest of your team to retire
    behind the infringement point before taking kicks.   Do the Neath
    forwards still take quick tapped kicks?   Might be worth seeing.
    
    	One more I remember was that drop goals aren't allowd from free
    kicks.   (I'm not certain about this one,  I wasn't giving Bill M. my
    full attention at the time).
    
    Cliff
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 162.86                      NEWS and VIEWS                         86 of 93
58632::FELDBRUEGGE                                    8 lines  16-APR-1992 17:13
                         -< No Goal From A Free Kick >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LAW 28 - FREE KICK
    
    A goal shall not be scored by the kicker from a free kick unless the
    ball has first been played by another player.
    
    Cheers
    
    John
             <<< SHAWB1::DISK$USERS1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RUGBY.NOTE;1 >>>
                    -< Rugby (Union and League) Conference >-
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Note 162.88                      NEWS and VIEWS                         88 of 93
ESSB::TSHAUGHNESSY "Electric Shaughs!"               15 lines  18-APR-1992 16:19
                                 -< Two more >-
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Two other rule changes;

The team that kicks to touch from a penalty keep possession for the line-out.

Experimental rule where a maul collapses or the ball is not released in time,
the team NOT in possession get the put in the ensuing scrum.

Nothing regarding non-nationals playing for another country. While on the 
subject, John Etheridge of Northampton and former England "B" has been declared
for Ireland to travel to NZ in place of Neil Francis. Gordon Hamilton is ruled
out on medical advice and his place will go to either Denis McBridge or Ger 
Earls.

Rgds,
TS
8.2176Blechy law changesBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Apr 22 1992 18:536
    I don't like any of the law changes, especially concerning making a try
    5 points.  That changes the character of the game.
    
    Thanks for the contacts.  I forwarded the note off.
    
    Rachael
8.2177CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed Apr 22 1992 19:1511
>    I don't like any of the law changes, especially concerning making a try
>    5 points.  That changes the character of the game.
    
When I said the same thing, Mac said that the reason was to make the
try a more enticing thing to go for, instead of going for the drop goal 
to try for the tie....

Should make for more exciting rugby....


'Saw
8.2178Some thoughts on the Law changesPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 22 1992 19:2642
8.2179EDUOZ::THURGARWed Apr 22 1992 23:3614
    Rachael,
    
    Did you see me in Chicago. I was the dark skinned guy who looked like
    Michael Jordan.
    
    'Saw,
    A friend of mine sat next to the Macho Man Randy Savage on a plane
    flight and said he was really nice (albeit with a very deep voice).
    
    Rule Changes - can anybody remember the days when a try was worth 3
    points, a conversion/field goal only 2. I can. Am I showing my age or
    the fact that I started playing rugby back in the sixties.
    
    Madge
8.2180EDUOZ::THURGARThu Apr 23 1992 06:2522
    'Saw,
    
    Did you receive my mail the other day.?
    What is your new mail stop.?
    
    Rachael,
    
    Do you leave yourself logged in all the time. I tried to call you on
    the Vax Phone but you didnt answer me. Typical woman.
    
    Second game of the NZ centenary series
    
    All Blacks 54
    World XV   26
    
    No defense game. Lots of tries
    John Eales dislocated his shoulder and Brendon Nassau broke his hand.
    This was not a good day for Australia.
    One try by the Japanese winger was sensational. Full length dive on the
    run to collect a kick through to score.
    
    Madge
8.2181CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownThu Apr 23 1992 12:0131
>    Did you receive my mail the other day.?
>    What is your new mail stop.?


Which mail, Madge?  I got some VAXmail from you, but nothing interoffice.

I don't think they have sorted out all our inter-orifice mail yet.


The new mail stop is SPO 102-2



Re Macho Man --

	I'm not suprised.  From the stories I've heard these guys
	are pretty much decent people in real life.

	Someone told me one time they met Bobby "The Brain" Heenan,
	and he was really nice.  They said he even stopped to chat
	with a lady who had a baby and he was playing with the little
	tyke.....



A try worth 3 and a goal worth 2?   Wasn't that about the time that
in Europe they would go from house to house yelling "Bring out yer
dead, Bring out yer dead"?


'SAw
8.2182typical woman votes for the fakeBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Apr 23 1992 13:1612
    I can't remember the last time I was called a typical woman.  I loved
    it!  Yes, I am not only logged in all the time, I am generally logged
    into 5 different machines on two different sites.
    
    About the pump, I actually like it when the scrumhalf can fake.  I
    think it's a little dangerous for them when they can't, as they have no
    way of keeping the opposing flankers onsides.  I am very protective of
    the scrumhalf, I hate it when they get squished.  On their put-in, 
    I also like the fake because it makes the game more interesting.  It
    takes a lot of the challenge out if the scrumhalf can't fake.  
                                                
    Rachael     
8.2183CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownThu Apr 23 1992 13:268
I tend to agree on the fake.  Of course, as a front row player, the
only time *I* see the fake is when I'm spectating...


Why the rule change on this?


'Saw
8.2184PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Apr 23 1992 13:456
8.2185PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Apr 23 1992 13:5011
8.2186sports made for tvBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Apr 23 1992 17:377
    Note most of the participants in the Rugby notesfile are spectators,
    not players.  
    
    I never heard of a three point try.  But I was around in the 60's, at
    least for the last 3.35 years or so.
    
    Rachael
8.2187CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownThu Apr 23 1992 17:3915
(spoken through a toofless mouth)

	Heh, heh, heh....

	I remember when a try was simply touching the ball over the
	goal line, and then they ALLOWED you a TRY to kick the ball
	through the uprights.   No points for touching it down...

	Heh, heh, heh.....


	Nurse, nurse, I need a bedpan!


Old'Saw
8.2188East of EdenSASE::SZABOThu Apr 23 1992 18:085
    I remember when ruggers used fig leaves to protect their ears...
    
    Hawk
    
    
8.2189RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownThu Apr 23 1992 20:036
Too tough, Hawk.

Rugby started in the 1800's.  By then, they had invented leather 8^)


'Saw
8.2190EDUOZ::THURGARThu Apr 23 1992 22:319
    You guys (and the proto-typical women) are too much.
    I am not that old. I just have a good memory (I think).
    
    Reason I heard for all the rule changes was to speed up the game.
    Therefore being more marketable.
    
    Madge
    
    PS. Rachael - when is your birthday (got the year 66 - right).
8.2191RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownFri Apr 24 1992 12:469
Actually folks, Madge is younger than I am....



Madge, how's that ANKLE coming along?



'Saw
8.2192PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 24 1992 13:1812
    Big rugby weekend in Worcester.
    
    Saturday Worcester hosts Charles River RFC at Quinsigamond State Park
    beginning at 1 pm.  There will be 2 matches.
    
    Sunday, Worcester is holding the Inaugural Central Mass. Collegiate
    Tournament at Quinsigamond State Park.  Participating teams include
    Worcester State College, Framingham State Collge, WPI, Holy Cross,
    Clark, UMASS @ Lowell, and Babson.  The tournament starts at 9 pm.
    
    At 5 pm on Sunday, Worcester's Under-18 side has a match.  This will
    aslo be played at the State Park.
8.2193?????????????SALES::THILLFri Apr 24 1992 13:3614
    I would think these rule changes must be a very big deal inthe Rugby
    community. Since the sport is over 100 years old and naturally relies
    on a lot of tradition, how can it be that easy to just change the value
    of points for certain scoring plays? What about records, etc. 
    
    For example, even tinkering with the offiside rule in soccer is causing
    a big fuss. Not to mention the old NASL being de-certified by FIFA
    (beginning of the end for them) for inventing its own 35-yard line
    offside rule. All this to "make the game more marketable?"
    
    Puzzling
    
    
    Tom 
8.2194RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownFri Apr 24 1992 13:4322
Dread,

I wouldn't even begin to admit to being an expert on this, but it seems
that in the rugby world, it's easier to modify the rules.  

A while back, it was illegal to wheel the scrum.  Now it's okay.

Plus, rugby league (an abomination if you ask me) has different scoring
still.


I'm sure plenty of people said, like I did, that the 5 points for the try
sucks, but I guess we're stuck with it.


The one I really don't like is the rule where if you run behind the 22
and kick for touch, the lineout is where it's kicked.  I dislike that
rule a lot.  But that might be that in the American game you don't tend
to get the kick for touch duels that the home countries tend to get....


'Saw
8.2195PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Apr 24 1992 13:5524
8.2196Charles River @ WRFCPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 27 1992 15:3219
    Worcester RFC hosted Charles River RFC this past Saturday.  Once again
    the weather bordered on miserable.  It wasn't too bad to play in, but
    it certainly wasn't a day for spectating.
    
    The A & B matches were very similar to each other.  Worcester dominated
    in the forwards, but the Charles River backs were too much for
    Worcester to handle.  It was very frustrating looking up from hard won
    ball to see our backs not doing much with it.  I never did hear the
    final score for either game (and my Sunday paper arrived very late),
    but I do know that Worcester lost both games but they were much closer
    than the score indicated.
    
    I was a bit apprehensive about playing for the B-side this week.  We
    haven't come close to fielding 2 full sides at practice or games. 
    Fortunately things turned out much better than I anticipated.  None of
    our first side played in the second match.  We borrowed 3 players from
    Charles River.  I had a rookie lock behind me, but the prop across from
    me didn't give me enough trouble to make it matter, and the rook did a
    pretty good job.
8.2197Central Mass. Collegiate InvitationalPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Apr 27 1992 15:4828
    The Central Massachusetts Collegiate Invitational Tournament was a big
    success.  The day started off a bit rocky with one team not showing up
    (well, 3 of their players did) and a mass scramble to reorganize the
    pairings.  Holy Cross College, Framingham State College, Worcester
    Polytechnic Institute, Clark University, Babson College, and Worcester
    State College all participated.  The six teams were divided into 2
    brackets for a round robin.  The winners of the brackets faced each
    other in the championship game.  All games were played with 25 minute
    halves.
    
    WPI (my alma mater and the team I coach) played quite well despite
    posting an 0-2 record.  I think they are finally on the road to
    rebuilding the program.  They opened the tournament with a match
    against Framingham State.  Framingham hit two penalty kicks and
    defeated WPI 6-0.  WPI's second game came against heavily favored Holy
    Cross, the only Div.I college team in the tourney.  The match was
    scoreless at the half despite Holy Cross being camped out inside of
    WPI's 22 almost the entire half.  WPI's defense ended up finally
    succombing to the pressure in the second half as Holy Cross scored 2
    converted tries.  WPI did penetrate into Holy Cross territory a few
    times but were turned away by a strong Crusader defense.  Final score
    Holy Cross 12, WPI 0.
    
    Holy Cross later defeated Framingham State 12-0 to win a spot in the
    finals.  Babson defeated Worcester State and Clark to earn the other
    spot.  Worcester State defeated Clark in the other bracket matchup. 
    The final was pretty closely contested, but Holy Cross came out on top,
    once again by a score of 12-0.
8.2198I'm a Leo, big surprise there!BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Apr 28 1992 17:297
    My birthday is August 3, 1966.  Please send presents.  I like stuffed
    animals, smelly soaps, jewelry (on the delicate side, none of that
    stuff you can see 20 feet off) and chocolate.  All the typical
    girl-stuff.  Now that I am going to be single for the rest of my life,
    it is up to my friends to provide me with lovely birthday presents!
    
    Rachael
8.2202CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed Apr 29 1992 11:5922
>    In love with 'Saw and I am next in line.

Thanks Madge, it would have looked tacky if I had said it...


    
>    'Saw the ankle is still bad. Spent the last 4 days away getting
>    treatment. I still think I need a lot more treatment.

I would say that you should continue to have it massaged, preferably
with hot oil.  Keep in mind that oil spillage isn't a bad thing, so
if the oil happens to hit other body parts, then that's okay too.

Wine will help it, preferably a nice wine, not too expensive, not too
cheap.

Candlelight will relax the body and help your ankle....

The rest is up to you!
    

'Saw
8.2203femmy thingsBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Apr 29 1992 14:0712
    Well, I'm glad you two have cleared things up for me.  I'd hate to lead
    the poor soul on...
    
    I told my father I wanted something girly for my 16th birthday and he
    got me a curling bar wrapped in a pink ribbon.  I have to say, I loved
    it.  
    
    Mac, who are you playing this weekend?   We are playing Richmond,
    England at 1 and Portland (that's my game) to follow.  We're at MIT in
    case anyone is in town and wants to spectate.  I love fans!
    
    Rachael
8.2204Rock, rock, Rockaway Beach...PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 29 1992 14:151
    Worcester is playing at home against Rockaway (NY) RFC this Saturday.
8.2205FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Apr 29 1992 15:0518
    Rachael, it sounds like your Dad did for you what I'm trying to do for
    my cousin's 2 girls and my niece, who's supposed to be born next month
    (unless my sister has a problem with her pregnancy).
    
    I let my mom, my aunt and everyone else get them the frilly, girly
    stuff.  When both of my cousin's kids were born, they got nerf
    footballs from me and I intend to do the same thing for my sister's
    daughter.  I've given my cousin's kids things like tool sets, an indoor
    basketball set and other presents along that line.  The older girl
    likes figure skating but says her favorite show on TV is hockey.  So
    her Christmas present thised year will be a hockey stick and a puck. 
    I'm even thinking about bringing the older one to her first Red Sox
    game nexted Patriots Day - my cousin will kill me if I bring her into
    the Rat though (she'll be 7).
    
    Sounds like your dad and I would be kindred spirits.
    
    John
8.2206CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed Apr 29 1992 17:1011
John,

If there is one thing that is sacred at Rugby drinkups, it is children.
They're welcome, and protected.

I've gotten the same "feel" from our Patriots Day group.  I'm sure
a 7 year old Ninja Niece would be welcomed and cherished by our 
crew....


'Saw
8.2207SASE::SZABOWed Apr 29 1992 17:289
    What 'Saw said, about kids being welcomed at Rugby drinkups, is very
    true.  At least, that's what I saw at my one and only Rugby drinkup
    where I had my kids with me.  I think I was the only person who felt a
    bit awkward at the "club" because of having my kids there.  The kids
    had a ball (pizza & cokes constitutes a good time for kids), and the
    ruckers, maulers, and scrummers went on their usual drinkup business...
    
    Hawk
    
8.2208PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 29 1992 17:457
    You guys oughta talk to my wife the next time you see a match.  There
    is no way, no how, you'll see my 16 month old daughter at a home
    drinkup.  Away maybe since my wife and I realize we must both make
    concessions (they come along and I don't stay as long).  And my wife
    has been around the game for as long as I have (11 years or so).
    
    If we had our clubhouse, I know it would be a different story though.
8.2209RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed Apr 29 1992 18:1010
There have always been a large number of children at Johnny's at 
our rugby drinkups.

Of course, with the layout being what it is there, it's very conducive
to allowing things like "Singin' In The Rain" to go on out on the patio,
while the kids are tucked safely away playing video games in the main
bar.....


'Saw
8.2210Drinking and MadgeBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed Apr 29 1992 18:3917
8.2211PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Apr 29 1992 19:2442
8.2212RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed Apr 29 1992 19:3613
Right on Mac.

Our drinkups are run the same way.  Two "free" kegs (club pays for them out
of dues) and then you're on your own.  Food had been on a pay as you go
basis at the bar, but sometimes a spread is laid on.


The irony of the beer comment from the guy in SI is that the ONLY drink
advertisement by any US rugger is for Moussy, a NON-alcoholic brew.
The rugger is Kevin Swords, a US Eagle lock.


'Saw
8.2213FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Apr 29 1992 19:5229
    I wouldn't have a problem bringing my cousin's kid to either the Sox
    game on Patriots Day or even a rugby game and drinkup - unless her dad
    is hung up on the idea that he's going to be the one to bring her to
    her first game.
    
    For insight, my cousin's kid is a little scared of this baby coming
    because my sister is her Godmother.  She's afraid that when my sister
    has her baby, she won't be "special" anymore.  This particular child is
    the first of her generation in this part of the country so everyone in
    my immediate family has always treated her that way.  She's probably
    worried that my brothers and parents will be more interested in my
    sister's child (who will be my parents' first grandchild) than her. 
    Part of what has caused this is that this particular cousin (who's an
    only child) is more like an older sister to me and immediate family (my
    4 brothers and 1 sister) than a cousin.
      
    So, when I'm up visiting (and I don't visit all that often, so she
    won't notice any difference from me) I want to try to make her feel
    special.  I want to get her to a high school football game this fall
    to start with because it's right up the street from where that part
    of the family lives.  If she does OK there, then I'll try her on high
    school basketball and hockey next winter and if she's still doing OK,
    next year's Patriots Day game is what I'm shooting for.  There are
    enough people around to take her to so-called girl things - I want to
    do stuff like this with her - she's getting old enough to appreciate
    it.  In a couple of years, I'll probably do the same things with her
    little sister.
    
    John
8.2214EDUOZ::THURGARThu Apr 30 1992 00:4815
    Is the moderator at work.
    What was wrong with my previous note.
    A question was asked and it was answered in a delicate polite fashion.
    
    'Saw - got any mail yet.
    
    Castlemaine breweries sponsored the Rugby series last year. I suppose
    commercialism, sponsorship, money are all intertwined. Rachael did you
    Wallaby jersey have a XXXX insignia on it anywhere (it is a beer).
    
    I spoil my neices and nephews and always try to give them different
    , unusual things. Gives them a good impression of there uncle. I am
    taking my nephew to his first rugby test this year (at age 6).
    
    Madge
8.2215FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Apr 30 1992 12:3612
    Here's something I've wondered about while watching the USA - Scotland
    game lasted May and it recently came to mind again.
    
    Why are some rugby games called test matches?
    
    The name doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, since when I think
    of test in this context, I think of experiment first, and I don't
    really know what's experimental about it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    John
8.2216RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownThu Apr 30 1992 13:5021
Madge, no mail yet.  It might not have caught up from the move.
You ARE talking Interoffice, right?


Re Test Matches:

	I honestly don't know.  It is no doubt an English expression,
	considering that's where the game originated.  

	Usually the phrase is International Test Match, and denotes
	a match between two international teams.   

	Personally, I view the "test" part as being similar to a 
	test of strength, or a contest.

	
	In Rugby and Cricket they are called tests.  



'Saw
8.2217PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Apr 30 1992 14:464
    The US/Scotland match wasn't an official test either.  No players were
    capped from either team.  While there have been tours to the U.S. by
    other countries' teams, there hasn't been a test match in the U.S.
    other than the U.S./Canada matches in quite a while.
8.2218RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownThu Apr 30 1992 14:474
Oh, so it was what they would call a "friendly" in soccer?


'Saw
8.2219EDUOZ::THURGARThu Apr 30 1992 22:535
    'Saw - yes interoffice mail. Should be there in the next week.
    
    No idea why cricket, rugby and league internationals are called tests.
    
    Madge
8.2220RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownFri May 01 1992 12:0214
I'll keep my eyes open for it then, mate.


re Tests:

	It's probably some silly little reason, like a newspaper article
	said that one side was 'tested' by another, and somehow the term
	stuck.

	That's the way the All Blacks got their name....



'Saw
8.2221Check your local listings!!!SNOC01::KNIPFERMCloudy but FineMon May 04 1992 07:1839
Hi again,

I know this is primarily a Union note and League is looked upon with much 
disdain by Union enthusiasts, but I thought some of ya'll might be interested in
the Rugby League State of Origin Series starting Wednesday night in Sydney.

Every year, New South Wales and Queensland butt heads in a three game series, 
which produces the most exciting and intense League action anywhere. There is
no love lost between the 'Blues' and 'Maroons' and the anomosity of this rivalry
can be likened to an Alabama -vs- Auburn game.

Queensland go into the contest for the first time in years without the services
of League legend Wally Lewis. 'King' Wally captained Queensland to a thrilling
2-1 series win last year, and then stepped down from rep football. Australian
captain Mal Meninga is set to captain Queensland this year, having taken the
Australian captaincy from Lewis in controversial circumstances 2 years ago. The
player to watch for Queensland is Australian test halfback Allan Langer, who is
without a doubt the best halfback in the game today, and arguably the best ever.

New South Wales is led by Laurie Daley, who many league experts judge to be the
most talented player in the game. Daley usually play centre with his club team
Canberra, but is slotted into the 5/8 position for this game, to take advantage
of his tremendous ball handling skills. Another player to watch is the versatile
Andrew Ettinghausen, who can play in the centres, or on the wing, but has been
put at fullback for Wednesday's clash. His attacking flair is unquestioned, but
many believe his defense may be lacking.

Queensland have dominated the series over the years, mainly due to Lewis' 
tactical play and leadership. New South Wales usually go into the series as
favorites on paper but not this year. I'm cheering for New South Wales but
I think Queensland may just squeeze in.

I read where ESPN is showing this game on tape delay, so check it out!!

seeya,
matt

PS 
If you want I'll post the lineup in here tomorrow!!
8.2222RUGBY1::wayAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownMon May 04 1992 11:4513
Thanks Matt,


I'm not a big League fan (you hit the nail on the head about the way Union
players feel) but please post the stuff in here.


If I'm not mistaken there are only 13 players per side in League, and I know
the scoring is different.  Can you post some of the differences?


Thanks,
'Saw
8.2223WRFC vs. Rockaway RFCPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 04 1992 13:0830
    Busy rugby day in Worcester this past Saturday.  The Worcester
    Shamrocks (the Women's team) took on Merrimack at 11 am.  Yours truly
    refereed.  Worcester RFC hosted Rockaway (NY) RFC.  The weather in
    these parts finally improved as we seemed to have jumped right from
    winter into summer.  The sun stayed behind clouds most of the day, but
    temperatures were in the low 70s.  Isn't it funny how you can be in
    shape when the temps are in the 40's and feel out of shape when the
    temps are 30 degrees higher?
    
    The Shamrocks ran into a much more experienced team in Merrimack.  Many
    of the Worcester women are still learning the laws.  The on the job
    training cost them alot of points.  Merrimack was also able to take
    advantage of the Shamrock's swarming defense as they were constantly
    able to work the overload.  Final score was Merrimack 46, Worcester 0.
    
    Rockaway arrived in Worcester with 10 players.  Realizing that this
    meant there would be absolutely no chance of a B-side match, I and 4 of
    my teammates donned blue jerseys and took the pitch for Rockaway.  I
    was kind of looking forward to a bit of a breather after reffing the
    women's match, but at least I was good and loose.  Rockaway dominated
    about the first 10 minutes of play, but couldn't cash in.  Worcester
    took over from there on the strength of their rucking and cruised to a
    47-0 victory.  About the only lowlight of Worcester's play was the
    scrummaging.  Worcester lost a couple against the head and were driven
    back on others, while the Rockaway pack stayed pretty stable throughout
    on their ball.
    
    Next Saturday Worcester travels to Albany, NY to take on the
    Knickerbockers in their final tuneup for the New England RFU Tournament
    in Newport on May 16&17.
8.2224CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownMon May 04 1992 13:1916
>    
>    Next Saturday Worcester travels to Albany, NY to take on the
>    Knickerbockers in their final tuneup for the New England RFU Tournament
>    in Newport on May 16&17.


Mac,

Look for Cahal, who was one of our flankers.  He got transferred to 
Albany for his job and will be playing with them.  Chances are he'll
be an A side player.  He either moved this past weekend or this coming
weekend....


'Saw

8.2225NERFU vs Richmond, England May 4BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue May 05 1992 19:3727
    Yesterday, {NERFU Select Side - (Beantown players who played Richmond
    on Saturday) } played Richmond England.  Richmond is one of the best
    clubs in England, either #1 or #3, I heard both.  They put out a
    slightly weaker side than faced Beantown on Saturday, but as they came
    with 21 players, it couldn't have been too much weaker.
    
    Upshot is, it was NERFU's first internaional and we beat them.  I heard
    21-12, I lost count at 15 for us.  Kevin (Beantown and NERFU coach) was
    so proud he was about to burst open.  They played very weakly, their
    tries were more because we let down than because they did anything
    particularly brilliant.
    
    The other flanker was Anne Derzon, also from Beantown.  We tackled the
    flyhalf in the first half and bonked heads.  We bled all over and were
    taken off to be treated.  Our team scored 2 (!) tries while missing
    both flankers, I think they overcompensated.  We felt unneeded.  Then
    we both went back in taped up like second rows, and finished up.  We
    decided to go to the hospital first and drinkup last.  Bad move, by the
    time we got out it was midnight, so I not only got six stitches but
    also missed the party.   
    
    John Logan was there and he was psyched!  As were we all.  What a good
    time.  Only bummer is I can't wash my hair for another day at least. 
    It's a good thing I have big hair, it doesn't need to be washed every
    day anyways.
    
    Rachael
8.2226PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 05 1992 19:574
    Congrats on making NERFU Selects, Rachael!  Sounds like your team needs
    to recruit a doctor.  We have 2 and they also carry a suture kit. 
    Nobody has to miss out on the 3rd half because they were sitting in
    waiting room waiting to be stitched up.
8.2227CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownTue May 05 1992 20:1212
Rachael!

Congrats!!!!!  YOu bled from the head.  That's still a goal of mine.
I had a bloody ear once, but that doesn't count.  I've bled from 
being gouged and spiked, but never from a good head shot.

Whoa, I'm like woodyward here.  How many stitches did you get?


Too cool!

'Saw
8.2228EDUOZ::THURGARTue May 05 1992 22:1317
    Rachael,
    
    I wont congratulate you on bleeding, I know how unpleasant it can be.
    Looks very spectacular, especially on a white jumper. Head cuts always
    bleed a lot. Congrats on making the trials.
    
    How can you have BIG hair.
    
    At cricket we have a doctor in the team. Very handy if you get hit with
    the ball. Except this year he got hurt and nobody could treat him.
    
    Now if you were a real woman, you would have stitched em ya self at the
    drinkup with no anaesthetic.
    
    How you feel better soon
    
    Madge 
8.2229CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed May 06 1992 12:2353
Rachael,

I'm going to try to get my money back on my speed-reading course.  I
missed the part where you said you got six.  Six is a good number
of stitches -- that's VERY cool.


Madge,

>    How can you have BIG hair.
    
Big hair is an American expression, I guess.  A lot of women, when they
do their hair up, do it up so that it's really, well, "big".  I'm getting
into territory here I know nothing about, really, because how can a guy
with a USMC flattop talk about big hair.  

Anyway, the way it is styled it's kind of a big and fluffed-out do, and
they say it's "big".

Rachael's hair is kinda curly, if I remember right and so it looks
"big".

Let's just say that it's the opposite of my flat-top.....



>    At cricket we have a doctor in the team. Very handy if you get hit with
>    the ball. Except this year he got hurt and nobody could treat him.

Guess he never read the Bible, where they say "Physician heal thyself".


What kind of injuries do you get in cricket?  Is it like baseball where
you get hit with the ball type injuries?

    
>    Now if you were a real woman, you would have stitched em ya self at the
>    drinkup with no anaesthetic.
    
When I was an EMT and did my required time in the Emergency Room at the
hospital, it was common practice to stitch little kids up with no
anaesthetic.  The feeling was that you'd stick 'em with a big needle which
would cause massive mental trauma, you'd wait for them to numb out, and
then you'd stitch them up...it would take forever and hurt the kid more.


I've never been stitched with no anaesthetic, but I've always wanted
to try it....8^)


'Saw


8.2230My son, the war zone...SASE::SZABOWed May 06 1992 12:5810
    My son had 4 stitches above the eye when he was 5 years old.  Played
    ice hockey the next morning.  He now wears a way cool scar.  He's also
    sporting a decent shiner from a regulation Little League baseball 2
    nights ago.  Same eye as the scar too.  Considering the collarbone that
    he snapped in half a couple of years ago, along with the numerous cuts, 
    lumps, and bruises that he's managed over his 8.5 years, would he 
    qualify for the Rubgy Injuries Hall of Fame?
    
    Hawk
    
8.2231CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed May 06 1992 13:4513
>    qualify for the Rubgy Injuries Hall of Fame?
    
He's got to play the game first.

But, he sounds like a_excellent candidate.  Put him in the back row at
stand off and he'll have an excellent chance of getting banged up some
more....8^)

He could be a scrum half too.....


'Saw    

8.2232PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 06 1992 15:161
    He probably would have been better off playing rugby, Hawk.
8.2233:^)RANGER::LEFEBVREPCs 'R UsWed May 06 1992 15:583
    Only in rugby can you have a "3rd half".
    
    Mark.
8.2234Is rubgy a lot like rugby?RANGER::LEFEBVREPCs 'R UsWed May 06 1992 16:003
    Hawk, what is rubgy?
    
    Mark.
8.2235SASE::SZABOWed May 06 1992 16:096
    Prof. Markie, rubgy is the Gumby version of rugby.  HTH.
    
    Hawk
    
    P.S.  Celts > Broons.  HTH.
    
8.2236No brain, no painBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed May 06 1992 16:3035
I think the worst part was when the EMT tried to put an IV in my hand.  I have
small veins to begin with, and the reason they were putting it in was that
I was dehydrated (ie even smaller veins).  He fished around inside my hand for
about 2 minutes before giving up.  

When the surgeon was giving me anethesia for my head, there was a little jab,
then she'd poke and see if it was numb, little jab, etc, then all of a sudden
SHE DROVE THE NEEDLE DIRECTLY INTO THE CENTER OF MY BRAIN.  It was quite
painful, I saw rockets going off and muttered a small cry.  The stitches 
didn't hurt, although I could feel a few of them in the least sedated part.

Thanks for the congrats on the NERFU thing.  It's not really a big deal,
everyone who tries out makes it as it's not that popular.  Further, the
selections for this game were minus the Beantown players who had played 
Richmond on Saturday, so minus our A-side.  That opens up the select side
a lot, our A players would have bumped over 2/3 of the side if they were
being considered.  As it was, we had at least 6 players in the match.  New
England is a very strong Union for women at the moment.

I went to practice last night, but stayed out of overtly contact drills.  I
felt fine.  I'll probably do the same Thursday, and I get the stitches out
Friday.  

We cancelled our matches this weekend, as our team is incredibly ragged out
and we have Nationals in less than 3 weeks.  It would have been a five hour
drive each way.  We'll have practice, instead.

BC won women's collegiate Nationals.  I am a little peevish at their coach
at the moment, so I was not too excited.  But it is wonderful for the kids
on the team.

Madge, did you send that autographed Rugby news?  It's wonderful, but I
don't know where it came from...

Rachael
8.2237PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 06 1992 16:4211
8.2238CAMONE::WAYAt 6', 245, from Parts UnknownWed May 06 1992 19:1723
>    'Saw gets one.  Rachael gets one.  The original SPORTS rugger is
>    emptyhanded once again :^(


So who have Rachael and I been sucking up to lately that Mac hasn't?



Rachael, why did they use your hand and not the inside of your elbow?
Veins in the elbow are much easier to find....

Rach, did you get a Will Carling too?


One of the most painful things in the world, in my book, is having
arterial blood drawn from the wrist.   As a firefighter, I was 
overcome by smoke one time, and I swore never again, because they
take aterial blood from your wrist, to do blood gases on.... It hurts
like hell.....


'Saw

8.2239EDUOZ::THURGARWed May 06 1992 22:3912
    Rachael,
    
    Sorry but it wasnt me. Some mystery present giver could send one to me.
    
    C/- Adam Thurgar   Mailstop: SMP
    
    Dont worry Mac I feel left out too.
    
    I once had stitches above my eye, they split open and I got them
    restitched on the sidelines and then kept playing. No brain - no pain.
    
    Madge
8.2240Who knows Will?BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu May 07 1992 14:0818
Now I'm really confused.  Yes, it was a Will Carling.  Awesome.  I love it.
Where did it come from?  Sorry Mac, I'll let you look at mine sometime...

I don't know why they tried my hand first.  The EMT said the hand is the 
hardest on the patient, but they always try it first.  Sounds kind of sick
to me.  I've got a bruise on  my hand the size of a half dollar from where
he tried to stick the needle in.  

I am getting really psyched for Newport.  I'm not sure if I'll play, since
I won't be playing in Nationals and we have close to a dozen flankers, but
we'll see.  It'll be fun no matter what.  Saw, you'd best be there.  We have
two games Saturday and one Sunday.

Madge, you are more butch than me.  I was just taped up and went back in, I 
would not let someone stitch me up on the sidelines.  I don't like 


Rachael
8.2241CAMONE::WAYI think I thought I saw you tryThu May 07 1992 14:2430
>                              -< Who knows Will? >-
>
>Now I'm really confused.  Yes, it was a Will Carling.  Awesome.  I love it.
>Where did it come from?  Sorry Mac, I'll let you look at mine sometime...

Rachael,

Did it come in an "international" type mail envelope, through Interoffice
Snail?

Here in the US we use though manilla envelopes, but the ones I often
get from England/Scotland are a light brown and a different type of
paper than we have here...


All I can say is Thanks, and I wish I knew who sent it!


>I don't know why they tried my hand first.  The EMT said the hand is the 
>hardest on the patient, but they always try it first.  Sounds kind of sick
>to me.  I've got a bruise on  my hand the size of a half dollar from where
>he tried to stick the needle in.  

That doesn't sound right to me.  My brother was an EMT-I (an 'IV tech")
and they always started with the elbow.  

Sounds like he was practicing on you!


'Saw
8.2242Rachael's a typical woman... :-)SASE::SZABOThu May 07 1992 14:267
    Rachael, unless I had more beers than I thought before going to that
    Irish pub get-together, I swear you don't have an ounce of butch in
    ya.  At least, you don't appear to be butch.  I ain't saying that
    you're a lady either... :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.2243Mystery Will, butch -- not!, and icy practices BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu May 07 1992 14:3916
It had foreign handwriting on it.  I was wondering how it could be Madge,
as it is a British publication.  All the ads were local to GB.  So where
did it come from?  I say thanks, also, to whoever.  But I wonder, Madge, 
are you just fooling with us?  It really wasn't you?

As for butch, I used to think I was sooooo butch.  I even got a crew cut once.
Now, that was small hair.  But it ended up being curly and looking cute, not
butch.  Lately, I have been into looking femmy and even wore a (mini) skirt
to drinkup Saturday.  Unfortunately, no women fell at my feet, but it was
fun to wear anyways.

Can't wait for practice tonight.  I brought my silk long undershirt, two 
jerseys, and wind jacket, sweats, windpants, and gloves.  Pretty nice for
the middle of May.  I can't believe Nationals are in 2.5 weeks.

Rachael
8.2244Nice EMTBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu May 07 1992 14:404
PS  The EMT was really  young and quite nice so I didn't get mad at him
even though he was making a mess of the job.

Rachael
8.2245EDUOZ::THURGARThu May 07 1992 21:5015
    If it is Will Carlings autograph check your English sources. Or beware
    of forgeries. Last time I was in LA I went to a Lakers game and they
    gave out team photos. The guy I went to forged Magics signature on it
    and sent it to a friend of mine who was a Lakers fan. He loved it till
    I told him the truth. To make up for it, about a year later I got him
    Kareems autograph (for real).
    
    So are you sure it is the real thing.
    
    Me thinks me smells a rat.
    
    Madge
    
    PS. I could be over soon. Next round of retrenchments Friday 22 May. If
    I go then get ready to party.
8.2246CAMONE::WAYI think I thought I saw you tryFri May 08 1992 12:1531
>    If it is Will Carlings autograph check your English sources. Or beware
>    of forgeries. Last time I was in LA I went to a Lakers game and they
>    gave out team photos. The guy I went to forged Magics signature on it
>    and sent it to a friend of mine who was a Lakers fan. He loved it till
>    I told him the truth. To make up for it, about a year later I got him
>    Kareems autograph (for real).

Well, there's only two guys I know from the UK.  One is in Scotland, and
it wasn't him (besides, he would've sent me Doddie Weir or Ian Milne!)
and then there's PJ, who never, ever, ever lets me forget when Arsenal
beats Liverpool, but otherwise I never hear from him....

    
>    So are you sure it is the real thing.
>    Me thinks me smells a rat.

No.  I have no way of knowing that it's Will Carling's signature.
But it's just signed Best Wishes, so it's not like it's highly personal
and that my lessen the "rat factor"....

    
    
>    PS. I could be over soon. Next round of retrenchments Friday 22 May. If
>    I go then get ready to party.


Mate, if you come over here, we'll party till we drop, wake up and
party some more!

'Saw

8.2247Faux Will is still good...BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri May 08 1992 13:3311
    	It had occured to me that it might be a joke.  But it was a very
    tasteful joke if it was a joke, so in either case I'll treasure it!
    I loaned it to our (Welsh) coach, he was excited to see it and promises
    to take very good care of it while he reads it.
    
    Rachael
    
    PS Stitches out today or tomorrow, whenever I get around to it...
    
    PPS Beantown might enter a B-side in Newport...
    
8.2248CAMONE::WAYI think I thought I saw you tryFri May 08 1992 14:1527
>    	It had occured to me that it might be a joke.  But it was a very
>    tasteful joke if it was a joke, so in either case I'll treasure it!
>    I loaned it to our (Welsh) coach, he was excited to see it and promises
>    to take very good care of it while he reads it.
    

Jokes are cool, as I've been both the instigator and the receiver of
a number of fine ones in my lifetime.

However, you should never, ever joke with a prop about something as
sacred as international rugby....



>    PS Stitches out today or tomorrow, whenever I get around to it...

Please, please, please tell me you're gonna do it yourself.

    

And speaking of Newport -- does anyone have a schedule (or at least a
starting time) and directions?    


thanks,
fw

8.2249self stitch removal, nationals, and nerfuBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri May 08 1992 17:2921
    I looked at them in the mirror this morning to see if I could take them
    out myself, but they are pretty darned small and I'd have to  cross my
    eyes to be able to see them as they are on my forehead.  So, I'll get
    someone else to do them.  Either I'll go back to St. E's tonight, or
    have an ex-player of ours take them out tomorrow after practice.  She's
    a surgical nurse.  Seems like it might be worthwhile to leave them in
    until after practice tomorrow, I'm going to try to hit and hope I don't
    bust my head open again.  I'm a little nervous at there is still quite
    the cut on my head, but I'll get it taped up well.
    
    I saw the list of who's going to Nationals last night and wants to be
    on the roster.  Eighteen forwards and I forget how many backs, for a
    roster limit of 28.  I don't think I'll make it, what with missing two
    out of three games.  
    
    I'll post a schedule for NERFU as soon as I have one, but they are
    subject to change.  We are currently scheduled to play at 9am on
    Saturday, but the Shamrocks have dropped out and we might add a B-side
    (didn't I mention that?).
    
    Rachael
8.2250Where's Fort whats-it?BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 11 1992 12:1112
    Hey Mac, can you post directions to Newport?  I need them for someone
    else (I'll get them for me eventually, but need these earlier) and I'm
    sure all our Sports fans will want them.
    
    I am stitch free.  I ended up having one of my roommates do it.  Funny
    how some people were too queasy for it, I am pretty easily grossed out
    but it didn't phase me.  I would have done it if I could have seen
    them.  
    
    No games this weekend but a 3.5+ hour boring practice.  
    
    Rachael
8.2251CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelMon May 11 1992 12:5417
Yes, need directions to Newport also.....


Stitches coming out are the easy part, because there's no blood.  All you
need is some small sharp scissors and some forceps.   Don't see how people
can be queasy about that. 

Putting them in is harder.  Once, when I was doing my EMT training, I 
had to do 4 hours of ER work.  I had an opportunity to watch a plastic
surgeon do some preliminary stitch work on a girl whose face got REALLY
bashed up in a car accident.   He was magnificent.  His stitches were
SO small, and he said that by the time he was through, you'd never know
that she'd been in an accident.



'Saw
8.2252PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 11 1992 13:4616
8.2253Merrimack-Shamrocks 40-0?BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 11 1992 13:5920
    Mac,
    	Seeing as the Shamrocks got creamed by Merrimack and Merrimack gets
    creamed by the rest of us, I think I could guess why they dropped out. 
    Let me know, though, if I'm on target or if there was another reason. 
    I think they'd have fun if they went, it's really too bad they dropped
    out.  
    
    What about directions?  I am trying to recruit a groupie!  (just
    kidding, not really a groupie in the traditional sense of the word)
    
    Rachael
    
    PS 5 days till 'Saw, Mac and Rach in the same park!  Is the world ready
    for such a gathering of stud muffins?
    
    PPS If you want to see butch, you should see me in the dress I got for
    my brother's wedding!  Flanker turned princess...  Although I think it
    would truly flatter Kev, with his trim figure.
    
    
8.2254PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 11 1992 15:3516
8.2255CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelMon May 11 1992 15:3711
8.2256Worcester @ Albany KnickerbockersPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 11 1992 16:0241
    We actually had good weather for a rugby game!  It was almost too warm,
    but the small field helped compensate.  Worcester arrived in Albany, NY
    to take on the Knickerbockers.  We actually arrived at the pitch before
    Albany did.  Unfortunately our game didn't arrive until about 10
    minutes after we took the pitch.  We staked the Knicks to an 18-0 lead
    as they easily scored and converted 3 tries.  The remainder of the game
    was pretty much controlled by Worcester from that point onwards,
    however.  We were able to close to 18-6 at halftime behind a penalty
    kick and a drop goal.  The drop goal was a thing of beauty.  I had just
    piled into a ruck and heard the "ball out" call and started pulling out
    to get into support.  I heard the kick and looked upfield and saw the
    ball go through the uprights.  The scrumhalf had picked the ball up
    from the base of the ruck, passed to our flyhalf, who dropkicked one
    right down the middle.
    
    In the second half Worcester continued the pressure on the Knicks and
    were rewarded with 4 penalties inside the Knick 22-meter line.  Our
    kicker was able to make good on 3 of them to bring the score to 18-15. 
    Albany made a late surge and were held off with 2 or 3 5-meter scrums
    before finally capitalizing with a try on a cutback by center Joe Burk,
    former Eagle, to bring the score to 24-15.  Worcester answered back
    with a flurry and penetrated deep into Albany territory.  Albany won
    the ball back, but an errant pass was picked off by Worcester's
    standoff who moved it out to the insided center who scored between the
    posts.  The try was converted and the score stood at 24-21 with just
    minutes left to play.  Albany held Worcester at bay for the final
    minutes and came out with a 24-21 victory.
    
    Albany's forwards didn't show me very much.  Worcester controlled most
    of the lineouts, and did a very good job in the scrums.  The Knicks'
    strength was in their backline, particularly in their tactical kicking.
    
    The B game saw alot of Worcester A players on the pitch.  Fortunately
    for us, the Syracuse Chargers match was cancelled and a few of their
    lads came down to watch the Albany match and ended up playing for our
    second side.  I was relegated to water boy for the second match as I
    was nursing a bruised knee/thigh and a twinge in my lower back from the
    A-side match.  I don't remember the score, but it was a fairly close
    game with Albany coming out on top.  Fatigue was definitely a factor.
    
    All in all, it was a good tuneup match for the New England Tournament.
8.2257Too fun a tourney to play in, I want to party!BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 11 1992 16:5210
    Tough game, Mac.  Sounds like it was exciting, though.  
                            
    If we enter a B-side, I will probably end up playing 3 games.  Could
    seriously cut into my tanning time.
    
    I'll be awaiting them directions.
    
    Saw, I am in a party mood.  Save some beer for me!
    
    Rachael
8.2258CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelMon May 11 1992 17:238
Mac,

You said "former Eagle Joe Burke".  Did he retire?

Rach, I'll save some BREWS for you....


'Saw
8.2259PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 11 1992 17:265
    'Saw, I was probably pre-mature in that statement.  I also couldn't
    remember if he was on the World Cup squad.  I wasn't that impressed
    with him.  He did score the game-winner, but other than that the thing
    most noticable about him was his voice.  He used it to ride his
    teammates all game.
8.2260CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelMon May 11 1992 17:3324
>    'Saw, I was probably pre-mature in that statement.  I also couldn't
>    remember if he was on the World Cup squad.  I wasn't that impressed
>    with him.  He did score the game-winner, but other than that the thing
>    most noticable about him was his voice.  He used it to ride his
>    teammates all game.


Yes.  He was on the World Cup squad.

As to being impresed, he's nice enough off the field, but I'm not that
impressed either.  In fact, to be honest, I'm not that impressed with
MOST of the Eagles.  Swords is the only one who approaches World Class
I think.

The rap on the Eagles back line is that the Centers are always looking
to crash, rather than spin it out....  At least that's what I've heard.


Was he the Captain?  Was he trying to direct the backline or just
ride them in general....


'Saw

8.2261PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 11 1992 18:048
8.2262CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelMon May 11 1992 18:058
>    those rucks and mauls.  They said he was constantly yammering at his
>    teammates.


Like Gary Lambert, only Lambert does it to the other team....


'Saw
8.2263PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 11 1992 20:257
    The challenge match between Amoskeag and Old Gold was held on May 2. 
    The winner of the match would play in Division I this fall, the loser
    in Division II.  Amoskeag finished in last place in Div.I last fall;
    Old Gold finished 3rd in Div.II.  The match was played on Amoskeag's
    home field in Manchester, NH.
    
    Amoskeag thrashed Old Gold 32-16.
8.2264CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelMon May 11 1992 20:4713
>    Amoskeag thrashed Old Gold 32-16.


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'll tell you, those ruggers from Amoskeag are a nice bunch of guys.
They play hard on the field, and throw an excellent drinkup after.

And they have a NICE pitch.....


'Saw
8.2265PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 12 1992 16:212
    I have an unconfirmed report that Old Blue RFC from California are the
    National Club Champions.  They defeated Mystic River 32-9 in the final.
8.2266CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelTue May 12 1992 17:599
Wow.....

First reaction:  Not another California champ...


Guess all the rugby whores will be playing for Old Blue next season. 8^)


'Saw
8.2267back from the land of carpetsBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed May 13 1992 12:597
    Bummer about Mystics.  We have a coach, a husband, and a fiance that
    play or played with them.  But second in the nation is not so bad!
    
    Rugby is like DECWORLD because everyone is in @#$% uniform.  Except me. 
    I'll have to shop at Ann Taylors next time.
    
    Rachael
8.2268Directions to Ft.Adams State ParkPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 13 1992 14:1232
    Here are the official directions to the New England Rugby Football
    Union Tournament to be held this Saturday and Sunday in Newport, RI.
    
    From CT and NY:
    
    Take I-95E to 138E.  Follow the signs to Cape Cod via Newport Bridge. 
    Once across bridge, take first right, "Scenic Newport", Downtown exit. 
    Go right at end of ramp.  At second light turn right onto America's Cup
    Ave. and go straight through 6 lights.  At seventh, turn right onto
    Lower Thames St. and follow map below (I'll describe it).
    
    From MA, NH, ME, and VT:
    
    Get to 24S from 128 (I-95) in MA and follow signs to Newport. 
    Remember, you go from 24S to 195W to 24S again in Fall River, then
    south to Newport.  At end of 24 you get on 114S (W.Main Rd.) and
    continue 7-8 miles until you see Dunkin' Donuts on your left.  Turn
    left at next light onto Valley Road and go straight through 3 more
    lights.  Continue and you will pass First Beach on your left.  Go up
    hill then down and at third major intersection turn left onto Lower
    Thames St. and follow map below.
    
    Map:
    
    The intersection where you turn onto Thames St. has a Post Office and
    places called the Ark and the Bay Club on the corners.  Thames St. is
    One Way in this direction.  Follow Thames St. to the Shell gas station
    and bear right onto Wellington Ave.  Wellington Ave. follows the water. 
    Wellington Ave. then bends to the left.  At the stop sign after the
    bend, turn right and follow to the next stop sign.  Turn right onto
    Harrison Ave. and then right onto Ft. Adams Road.  This will take you
    right into the park.
8.2269Maxwell Cup PairingsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 13 1992 14:2327
    Here are the pairings for the NERFU tournament.  Sorry, Rachael, all
    that I was given so far are the Men's pairings:
    
    Saturday, May 16
    
    Maxwell Cup - Field B
    
    A.  Worcester (2) vs Newport (7) -- 9 am
    B.  Old Gold (3) vs. Albany (6) -- 11 am
    C.  Portland (4) vs. Springfield (5) -- 10 am
    D.  Burlington (1) vs. Boston Irish (8) -- 12 noon
    
    E.  Winner A vs. Winner B -- 2:15 pm
    F.  Loser A vs. Loser B -- 1:00 pm
    G.  Winner C vs. Winner D -- 4:40 pm
    H.  Loser C vs. Loser D -- 3:30 pm
    
    Sunday, May 16
    
    Consolation Final -- Winner F vs. Winner H -- 10 am
    Maxwell Cup Final -- Winner E vs. Winner G -- 11:20 am
    
    Note:  First round matches:  25 minute halves
           Second round matches:  30 minute halves
           Final round:  40 minute halves
    
           Number in parentheses denotes league standing
8.2270Sykes Trophy PairingsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 13 1992 14:3024
    Saturday, May 16
    
    Sykes Trophy -- Field C
    
    A.  Boston (2) vs New Haven (7) -- 11 am
    B.  Hartford (3) vs. Charles River (6) -- 12 noon
    C.  Mystic River (1) vs. Amoskeag (8) -- 10 am
    D.  Providence (4) vs. Beacon Hill (5) -- 9 am
    
    E.  Winner A vs. Winner B -- 4:40 pm
    F.  Loser A vs. Loser B -- 3:30 pm
    G.  Winner C vs. Winner D -- 2:15 pm
    H.  Loser C vs. Loser D -- 1 pm
    
    Sunday, May 17
    
    Consolation Final -- Winner F vs. Winner H -- 10 am
    Sykes Trophy Final -- Winner E vs. Winner G -- 1:20 pm
    
    Note:  First round matches:  25 minute halves
           Second round matches:  30 minute halves
           Final round:  40 minute halves
    
           Number in parentheses denotes league standing
8.2271SASE::SZABODangerous neophyte technoweenieWed May 13 1992 14:414
Mac, feel free to crash at Kev's this weekend...

Hawk_for_Kev

8.2272CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelWed May 13 1992 14:5614
>    A.  Boston (2) vs New Haven (7) -- 11 am
>    B.  Hartford (3) vs. Charles River (6) -- 12 noon
    
>    E.  Winner A vs. Winner B -- 4:40 pm


Look for a rematch of last year's New England Tournament Championship
match to be played at 4:40 pm on Saturday.   It will be a helluva
match to watch......


'Saw


8.2273Old Blue (CA) RFC National US Club ChampsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed May 13 1992 17:575
    Well, I have a confirmation on the results of the Men's National Club
    Championship.  Mystic River stuffed the Dallas Harlequins in the
    semi-final.  The first half of the final was very close with Old Blue
    enjoying a 12-6 edge at halftime.  They pulled away in the second half
    and ended up winning 30something to 9.
8.2274CAMONE::WAYA&amp;E - the World War II channelWed May 13 1992 18:2611
>    semi-final.  The first half of the final was very close with Old Blue
>    enjoying a 12-6 edge at halftime.  They pulled away in the second half
>    and ended up winning 30something to 9.


Ah.  That's the way that Mystics beat us.  In fact the half time score was
the same....


'Saw

8.2275US National Championship UpdatePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 14 1992 13:4340
    Here's the scoop on the National Championships (except for the Women's
    Club which will be played on Memorial Day Weekend, Men's Div.II Club
    which were held either last weekend or will be held this weekend).  The
    Championships were held on May 9-10 in Denver, CO.
    
    Men's Div. I Club
    
    Semifinals -- Mystic River defeated Western Champ Dallas Harlequins
    29-4, holding them scoreless until the second half.  Pacfic Coast Champ
    Old Blue (CA) defeated Mid-West Champ Chicago Lions 32-9.  Old Blue led
    13-9 at the half but poured it on in the second half.
    
    Finals -- As reported earlier, Old Blue defeated Mystic River 33-9. 
    The score was 12-6 in favor of Old Blue at the half, but as in their
    semifinal match they pulled away in the second half.  Dallas Harlequins
    took third place by defeating the Chicago Lions 30-7.  The Harlequins
    came out strong and built up a 26-3 lead in the first half.
    
    Men's Colleges
    
    Semifinals -- U. of Cal. (Berkley), Pacific Coast champs, defeated
    Mid-West champs Penn State 28-6.  USA Rugby East champ Army defeated
    Western champ Air Force 30-15.
    
    Finals -- UCal(Berkley) defeated Army 27-17.  Air Force captured third
    by defeating Penn State by a score of 20-13.
    
    Women's Colleges
    
    Semifinals -- UConn defeated Western champ Air Force 12-8 while Boston
    College defeated Colorado State 28-0.
    
    Finals -- UConn over BC by a score of 12-6. This was UConn's first
    national championship in women's rugby.  Ironically, this was UConn's
    first victory over BC this season.  In the fall, UConn lost to BC 12-10
    in the New England Championships and lost again 7-6 in the USA Rugby
    East final.  Rachael Jackson of BC was named the most valuable back and
    Karen Siganik of UConn was named the most valuable forward.  The
    Pacific Coast and Western Territories failed to send teams to the
    tournament.
8.2276CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseThu May 14 1992 14:0216
>    Finals -- UConn over BC by a score of 12-6. This was UConn's first
>    national championship in women's rugby.  Ironically, this was UConn's
>    first victory over BC this season.  In the fall, UConn lost to BC 12-10
>    in the New England Championships and lost again 7-6 in the USA Rugby
>    East final.  Rachael Jackson of BC was named the most valuable back and
>    Karen Siganik of UConn was named the most valuable forward.  The
>    Pacific Coast and Western Territories failed to send teams to the
>    tournament.


Well, congrats to the Lady Huskies and their coach (a Hartford Wanderer)...


'Saw


8.2277FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu May 14 1992 14:584
    A national championship game in *ANYTHING* between Boston College and
    the University of Connecticut is enough to make me barf.  Excuse me ...
    
    Ninj
8.2278CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseThu May 14 1992 15:088
>    A national championship game in *ANYTHING* between Boston College and
>    the University of Connecticut is enough to make me barf.  Excuse me ...
    
Like having to choose between a barium enema, and a prostate exam by
a half-drunk protologist, eh Ninj?


;^)
8.2279CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseFri May 15 1992 12:1227
I had heard via the grapevine that there was an incident at last week's
Hartford-Springfield match.

Last night, at my brothers graduation, I bumped into another Wanderer
(whose wife was in my bro's class) and asked him about it.

It happened during the A-side game.  Springfield had been rather chippy
all game, and I guess late in the first half, Hartford 8-man Bob Hess
got stomped and then kicked in the face.  A brawl broke out, which
spilled onto the sidelines and involved some supporters.

After things calmed down, Hartford came back out in the second half,
let their play speak for it self, and promptly shut the Springfield club
down.


Steve downplayed the incident, saying it wasn't that bad (except for
Bob Hess's face) and we talked about how we played Springfield at the
end of last fall....

I don't guess we'll be scheduling Springfield for a while now...

Glad this didn't happen during the league season.   Can't wait to go
to Newport!


'Saw
8.2280Schedule for our games Saturday @ NewportBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri May 15 1992 12:5611
    I think it was BC that won Nationals, not U. Conn.  Can you check that?
    
    We have three games for each side this weekend.  B-side plays at 10 on
    Saturday, and A-side at 1.  Then, each side has two games Sunday. 
    I'll be in the B game, unless I can't run... I slammed my knee pretty
    hard into the ground yesterday and it is a little swollen and pretty
    painful.  This season has been so discouraging for me, I keep having
    one petty injury after another.  Not so bad I can't play, but bad
    enough so I can't play very well.  Sigh.
    
    Rachael
8.2281CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseFri May 15 1992 13:3124
>    This season has been so discouraging for me, I keep having
>    one petty injury after another.  Not so bad I can't play, but bad
>    enough so I can't play very well.  Sigh.
    

Take heart Rachael, there's always next season.  

I got a compliment last night from Steve Muecci at my brother's grad thing.
He wrapped me in the shoulder and said "Getting big -- you look like you've
been hittin' the weights pretty hard".   So, at least all the work I've
been doing is starting to show.

If I can just keep on doing the runnin' thang all sumer, then maybe this
fall will be a good season for me.


As for your knee, ice it every minute you can between now and tomorrow 
morning.

I'm going to try to be there by ten.  I know your colors are red/blue,
but what's the pattern?  Hoops or one big hoop right????


'Saw
8.2282PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 15 1992 13:377
8.2283BC and IceBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri May 15 1992 14:4313
    Yeah, but all the BC players who showed up at the NERFU match last
    Monday were pretty convinced that they had won.  Or so said my
    teammates, who talked to them.  I didn't.  So I'm wondering.
    
    By the way, I enjoy your coverage of the National, Mac.  
    
    I thought about icing it at work today, but I'm shy to.  I've got
    shorts on, though.  I thought it was probably a little cool, but I'm in
    such a mood for shorts and at least one of the buildings I work in is
    about a thousand degrees.  (That's relavent, it's easier to ice a knee
    in shorts.) (Not the knee wearing shorts, me wearing shorts)
                           
    Rachael
8.2284GENRAL::WADEGranma'sBiscuits&amp;TomatoGravyROOLZ!Fri May 15 1992 14:467
    
    Mac,
    
    	I coulda swore our local rag (where the tourney was held)
    	had BC as the women's champ........
    
    Claybone
8.2285PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 15 1992 15:212
    Hmmmm, I'll have to verify my sources this weekend.  Noone from UCONN
    turned down the congratulations from the BoD on Wednesday night...
8.2286just to break up a monotonous drive 2morrow7389::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeFri May 15 1992 19:4318
    Anybody who is heading down to Newport tomorrow and will be coming from
    the "West" on the Mass Pike;
    
    After exit 11A (approx mile marker 96) "Grafton-Millbury", get ready
    for mile marker "100".  At this point the road will start to go
    downhill.  Just before mile marker "101" the Pike crosses over a local
    road. As soon as you reach it mile marker "101" (or a bit earlier if
    you prefer, look over your left shoulder and you'll see about 4 houses,
     the nearest one being about 60 yards from the Pike.
    
    That's where I live!  ~150 yards away from the Mass Pike @ mile marker
    101.  Feel free to stop by!
    
    BTW, the next exit (after my house) is #11A - 495.
    
    hth,
    Kev
    
8.2287CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseFri May 15 1992 19:467
I'll be there tomorrow, but I won't be going that way Kev.

Mac and Rach, I'm looking at being there by around 10am.  I'm figuring
90 minutes to 2 hours to get there.....


'saw
8.2288Almost Friday evening, then Rhode IslandBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri May 15 1992 20:029
Saw,
	10 sounds good, then you can see me in action!  Day of dreams!  Don't
forget your camera, and keep in mind Newport is a little cool.

	We wear 4 inch hoops.

	I'm psyched to see you guys!

Rachael
8.2289PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 15 1992 20:138
8.2290CTHQ2::MCCULLOUGHLindsey's gonna HAVE a sister!!!Fri May 15 1992 20:215
I cain testify to the traffic in Newport.  I went there to run a marathon a 
couple of years ago, and on race day, the traffic was backed up all through 
town.  Had me sweating bullets about getting to the start on time.

=Bob=
8.2291FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 18 1992 12:2825
    An A&W siting took place on Saturday at the NERFU tournament in
    Newport.  She says it's your loss for not showing up.  She's happy with
    her new job, is doing well and misses all of youse.
    
    It was a good day for rugby on Saturday.  There were some upsets, most
    notably Amoskeag's 11-0 win over Mystic.  Amoskeag was 8th in NERFU
    Division 1 in the Fall while Mystic played in the National Championship
    game a couple of weeks ago.
    
    I got to see both Keith and Rachael play.  The Worcester RFC played in
    the consolation final yesterday after losing to Newport in their first
    game on Saturday and beating Old Gold in the second game.  Rachael
    played for Beantown's B side and lost its first game, and I don't know
    what happened after that.
    
    Frank came down to watch.  Hartford blew out Charles River in their
    first game and won a real nail-biter against archrival Boston on
    Saturday, and was to play Beacon Hill in the championship game
    yesterday.  I'll let the participants add more when they get in - they
    do a better job than I.
    
    Neither Frank, Alison nor I stayed for Sunday.  My activities for
    yesterday can be summed up as follows - "I paint, therefore I am"  :-(
    
    Ninj
8.2292newport summaryBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 18 1992 12:4012
	The rugby was the usual, lots of people running around hitting each
other, cleat marks all up  and down my  legs, etc, but the socializing
was great!  I didn't pick up any babes but wasn't really trying.  I had a 
great time seeing 'Saw and Alison and John and Mac.  I think Mac and I are
tied for the big-hair-in-games award.  
	'Saw, I'll leave it up to you to tell you-know-who about you-know-what 
rugby activity that took place this weekend.
	Mac, who were the guys in the red with white pinstripes that you were
playing?  That was a good game, lots of action.  I didn't like their uniforms,
though, too busy.

Rachael
8.2293CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 13:1350
The Wanderers played some truly inspired rugby in the game against Boston.
In addition to that they displayed some true mental discipline in NOT
giving in to Boston's chippiness.   In Newport, if you get tossed from
a game on Saturday, you're out on Sunday, so that mental discipline is
really important.

Try of the game goes to Al Deken, who managed to picked off a Boston
pass as it was being spun out the back line between the centers, (and
stay onside while doing it) and then he cut in the afterburners.
One of the Boston wings had the angle on him, but raw speed (and I mean
RAW speed) will beat the angle any time.  

The final was 16-13, which avenged last fall's loss to Boston.

The interesting thing about the Boston game is that the pace is always
close to afterburner mode, and it is one of the most intense rugby matches
you'll ever seen.  There is a true hatred between these two clubs, and
it comes out on the field.   Lots and lots of subtle cheating away from
the ref goes on too.


I'm a little concerned about Hartford's style of play in the back
line these days.  The ball comes out of a ruck, maul or scrum and
gets as far as Glen "Gary Owen" Judge, and the Wanderers game is 
starting to look like a Five Nations tournament with constant tactical
kicking.   

The loss of players like Tom Vinick and Tony Gimilaro seem to have 
lessened our games sense in the centers, and the wingers don't seem
to have much work these days (although when they do, it's intense)....



One funny thing occured during the Charles River game.  Howie Rosenberg,
who's Jewish and has played for the US in the Maccabiah Games, is one
wing.  Tommy Faust, who's rumored to be part Lebanese is the other, and
our Vice Captain is Bob Hess.  In the Charles River game, several tries
were scored on Tommy's wing, and of the try possibilities on Howie's
wing, the center rarely passed the ball (Howie only got one try).

On the sidelines, we were telling Howie that it was blatant anti-Semitism,
but what could he expect on a team with a Captain named Hess.  Howie
said he wasn't worried, because the Mossad was coming to town for the
Mossed Invitations XV's......


Other than that a grand day in Newport....


'Saw
8.2294Hawk and Kev -- Dweebs with Excuses.CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 13:1725
And to those dweebs (Hawk and Kev) who wimped out of coming, you 
missed it.

After the Beantown game, Rachael and Watleigh (another flanker) and 
two other Beantown ruggers whose names I didn't get, wrassled me to
the ground, taped me up with electrical tape, and stomped me senseless.

It took five Beantown ruggers to control and wrassle Mac, and I think
it took four of them to subdue John "Ninj" Hendry, who put up a fight
worthy of his nickname.

However, once subdued and taped, we all made like Connie Chung, and
just laid back and enjoyed it.


So Hawk, you not only missed the Bottomless Mug of Bear, you also missed
the best rugby experience *I* ever had......


'Stomped_Saw


PS  I kept trying to get A&W to grab my camera and take pictures, but
    she was laughing so hard and cheering on the Beantown ruggers, that
    she couldn't have gotten a good pic if she'd wanted to......
8.2295FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 18 1992 13:577
    I didn't want to mention how abused I was because I was hoping Frank
    would forget about it, but no such luck.  Took me a while to get the
    electrical tape off and I'm lucky I don't have much body hair.
    
    Ninj
    
    PS - Rachael, the team with the "busy" uniforms was Portland
8.2296NERFU Tournament ResultsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 14:0224
    Just a quick note to post the highlights of the tournament.  I have a
    meeting in a few minutes, so I'll post details later.
    
    Div. I Men's
    
    Hartford wandered all over the field and posted a fairly easy victory
    over Beacon Hill.  I don't recall the score, but Beacon Hill only
    posted 1 try and a couple of kicks.
    
    Div. II Men's
    
    A very exciting final that was a see-saw battle all the way finally saw
    the Albany Knickerbockers victrious over Burlington (VT) RFC.  Based on
    the results this weekend, Div. II is going to be very tough this fall.
    
    Men's Professional Schools
    
    MIT defeated Harvard Business School
    
    Women
    
    I don't know.  I didn't see the results posted.  Their round-robin
    format made it tough to keep track of who was ahead of who.  I'm sure
    Rachael can fill us in.
8.2297But did anyone spot "RONY" Salmon???CNTROL::CHILDSSir Psycho SexyMon May 18 1992 14:050
8.2298SASE::SZABODangerous neophyte technoweenieMon May 18 1992 14:1310
Promise to tape me, and I'll never miss a rugby tourney again!

Too many jobs, not enough time, forced me to be at home.  Lately, the kids
have been calling the milkman daddy...  :-)

All this taping and stomping sounds like great fun, but I gotta know, was 
Rachael in her usual post-game attire during all of this?  :-)

Hawk

8.2299CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 14:249
>All this taping and stomping sounds like great fun, but I gotta know, was 
>Rachael in her usual post-game attire during all of this?  :-)

I'll never tell, but short of single-handedly rucking over three opposing
backs, this was the most wonderful experience of my life.....


'Saw

8.2300CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 14:5227
Well, after sitting here for a while, savoring the victory, I'll put
in some thoughts.


It sure is good to know that The Plate is coming back to our trophy case.
It's sweet knowing that we repeated as New England Tourney champs.


I think the crucial games were Amoskeag beating Mystic River and Hartford
beating Boston.  Of course, Amoskeag was the upset of the tournament, but
I think that Mystic was feeling a major letdown after their loss in the
national championship game.  

Hartford vs Boston was the game that really decided the champ.  I was
apprehensive about the championship game, knowing that a psyched up
Beacon Hill team could give Hartford a problem IF Hartford took Beacon
Hill too lightly.   But evidently that was not the case.


(Mac, did Swords play for Beacon Hill????  I don't recall if he was 
there or not.....)


Must've been a GREAT day for Hartford, now I wish I'd gone back down.,....


'Saw
8.2301PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 15:042
    Yes, Kevin Swords did play for Beacon Hill.  Boy he's big.  Very easy
    to pick out of a crowd.
8.2302FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 18 1992 15:054
    So Keith, how did the consolation finals go?  Have you peeled off all
    the tape yet?
    
    John
8.2303CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 15:1612
Yes, what John said.

Also, how'd Beacon do in the lineouts?  Usually Brian Shell (6'4", big blond
guy) goes up against Kevin.  Since Kevin took Kerwan to school in the
New Zealand game in the World Cup, it'd be interesting to know how
Brian did against him.....


And Rachael, what was Beantown's luck yesterday????


'Saw
8.2304Tape in my cleatsBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 18 1992 15:2817
Beantown A's won the tourney, Beantown B's won the consolation bracket.  The
B's played Boston first and lost about 18-10, not bad against a team with an
Eagle and some ERU players on it.    Boston was second, Hartford was third, and
I don't know who Merrimack and Portland did against each other.  (5th and 6th)


It's going to take me forever to get all that darned tape out of my cleats!
But it was a good time.  As for post-game, well, to be honest, it was too
cold.  I was bummed.  No tan for me.

I have to say, I don't feel like John Hendry or Mac were fighting that hard.
But it was quite a wrassle to get 'Saw on the ground.  I guess we can tell 
who the shy one is!  

I've got to run, I'm late for three things...

EB  (ask 'Saw!)
8.2305AXIS::CHAPPELNyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk, That's a pipen !Mon May 18 1992 15:339
8.2306NERFU Div. II RecapPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 15:4076
    It was a very good tournament this year.  The weather cooperated to
    some extent, there were a few upsets, and a lot of good, clean rugby. 
    Saturday's weather was cloudy with occasional rain.  It didn't effect
    the players much, but it certainly kept down the crowds.  Sunday was
    beautiful and sunny (as my sunburned face will attest to).  It was fun
    seeing A&W, 'Saw, Ninj, and Rachael and having them cheer us on.  I was
    able to watch one of Rachael's matches and was very impressed with the
    depth of Beantown overall, and her play in particular.  Allyson did
    come back on Sunday.  Nonone came up to me over the course of the
    weekend and identified himself as RON, so I don't know if he was there.
    
    No. 2 seed Worcester kicked off the Div. II tournament with a game
    against No. 7 seed Newport.  The first round games had 25 minute
    halves.  Newport came out fired up in front of the home town crowd. 
    They have improved immensely over the past season or so.  They took a
    3-0 lead on a penalty kick in the first half.  Worcester was beating
    Newport to the loose ball, but Newport regained possession several
    times by pushing Worcester back off the ball once they did get there. 
    They were very tough on defense putting constant pressure on the
    Worcester backs.  Newport added an uncoverted try early in the second
    half.  Worcester started to rally, but it was too little, too late as
    they went down to a 7-0 defeat.  Newport, one of the perrenial doormats
    of the second division is going to be a force to be reckoned with this
    fall.  They have stepped up recruiting and are getting some good
    coaching.
    
    In other first round action, Albany defeated Old Gold, Burlington
    crushed the Boston Irish, and Portland got by Springfield.
    
    Worcester's second round match (30 minute halves) was against rival Old
    Gold.  This game was controlled by Worcester from the opening kickoff
    to the final whistle.  I don't know what the final score was, but it
    was a convincing victory for Worcester which put us in the consolation
    final on Sunday.
    
    In other second round action, Newport put up a good fight against
    Albany, but went down something like 18-0.  Burlington defeated
    Springfield and Portland crushed the Boston Irish.  This set up a Div
    II championship match between newcomer Albany and Div.II champ
    Burlington with a consolation match between Worcester and Portland.
    
    Worcester and Portland agreed to shorten the game from a full 40 minute
    halves to 30 minute halves.  In hindsight, it was probably a bad
    decision for Worcester.  Worcester spotted Portland a 10-0 lead in the
    first 10 minutes.  Portland was beating us to the ball, breaking
    tackles, and generally making us look bad.  Worcester started turning
    it around in the later stages of the first half and really started
    taking control in the second half.  After what seemed forever as we
    camped out in Portland's end of the field, we finally scored a try and
    converted it to cut Portland's lead to 10-6.  Worcester smelled the
    chance at a come from behind victory and put alot of pressure on
    Portland.  Portland withstood the onslaught on and the last flurry by
    Worcester with only minutes left in the game, Portland launched a
    clearing kick which did not make it to touch.  However, Worcester's
    wing was not able to handle the kick and Portland scooped it up and
    scored with some nice ball handling to ice the game.  Final score
    Portland 14, Worcester 6.
    
    As I said earlier, the Div. II Championship game between Albany and
    Burlington was nip and tuck all the way.  It was an exciting game to
    watch, probably one of the best of the weekend.
    
    I saw action in 2 of the 3 matches Worcester played.  Unfortunately, it
    was in the 2 that Worcester lost.  I played tighthead prop against
    Newport and lock against Portland.  Despite the dissapointing 1-2
    record, it was a good weekend for the Club.  After having dropped the
    first game against Newport, we gave alot of new/up-and-coming club
    members playing time against Old Gold.  We're building a good, solid
    core of 20 or so members.  Several players came down to Newport for
    both days with no guarantee of playing time to support the club.  As it
    turned out, everyone who had been coming to practice and who travelled
    to Newport got at least one game.  We did lose another player to
    injury.  Our first side hooker sustained a knee injury towards the end
    of the first match.  Preliminary diagnosis was that it was relatively
    minor and this essentially being our last action of the season, he'll
    be nice and healthy for the Fall.
8.2307CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 15:4613
>EB  (ask 'Saw!)


Hint:  When Rachael is on the pitch, she keeps


GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING AND GOING...


I got tired just watching her....


'Saw
8.2308PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 16:083
    I must correct an earlier posting (he typed sheepishly).  Boston
    College did indeed defeat UCONN for the Women's Collegiate National
    Championship.
8.2309JURAN::MCKAYMon May 18 1992 16:1810
    Mac is the consolation final for 3rd place or 5th.  If it's for
    3rd how come you only have to win 1 loser's bracket game to get there?
    It would seem to me if you lose in the quarter's, you would have to
    play another quarterfinal round loser and then a semifinal round
    loser to play for 3rd.
    
    It figures UCONN lost that's three pieces of bad news (Womens rugby,
    softball, mens baseball) in one lunchtime!
    
    Jimbo
8.2310PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 16:2313
8.2311PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 16:264
    'Saw, I really can't give you many particulars on the Hartford/Beacon
    Hill game.  I was sitting up on the hill, working on my tan, working on
    finding the bottom of my bottomless mug-o-beer, shooting the breeze
    with teammates and opponents, and casually watching the match.
8.2312CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 17:2731
>    'Saw, I really can't give you many particulars on the Hartford/Beacon
>    Hill game.  I was sitting up on the hill, working on my tan, working on
>    finding the bottom of my bottomless mug-o-beer, shooting the breeze
>    with teammates and opponents, and casually watching the match.


Damn, can't ever count on a post-game rugger for a decent account of
the next game 8^) 8^)

And I don't BLAM(tm) you one bit!


Regarding the plate round, it is kind of disconcerting.

For example, Charles River and New Haven lost, Mystic River and Providence
lost all in the first round.  Boston won.

Charles River played New Haven in the loser's bracket and Mystic played
Providence.  Providence beat Mystics, and New Haven beat River, so 
Providence v New Haven was the loser game yesterday.  (At least I THINK
Providence beat Mystics)

Boston, who one in the first round, but lost in the semi-final, got 
nothing.  Seems a bit unfair in a way.



re the BC thing:  I'm sure this makes John Hendry even HAPPIER 8^)


'Saw
8.2313FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon May 18 1992 18:4218
    I just spoke with Alison.  She has recovered from the shock and humor
    of the attack of the Rugby Krishnas and is able to talk about it
    without breaking into gusts of laughter.
    
    She ended up going back yesterday because painters were coming to work
    on her house and she wouldn't have gotten anything done.  She felt
    Albany vs Burlington was the best game she saw all weekend, even better
    than Hartford vs Boston because it was clean rugby without the feeling
    that a fight or a hockey game would break out at any second.
    
    The Hartford vs Beacon Hill game was closer than expected, 28-15
    Hartford with the Wanderers scoring a try and conversion right at the
    end of the game.  Beacon Hill missed 5 penalty kicks that would have
    given them a narrow win in the match.
    
    She says hello to everyone.
    
    John
8.2314CAMONE::WAYWe don't go in for self-abuseMon May 18 1992 18:4925
>    than Hartford vs Boston because it was clean rugby without the feeling
>    that a fight or a hockey game would break out at any second.
    

Actually, that's what I love about the Hartford-Boston matchups.  

You know these two teams HATE each other.  You know that not only want to
win, but want to hurt the other guys.   The only fight I've ever seen
Doc Lyons get in was against Boston...

It's one end of the extreme.  On the other end of the rivalry extreme
you have perhaps the truest rivalry in the rugby sense, Hartford-Beacon
Hill.

Last year it was damn sweet to beat Boston in the final.  It was kind
of an In Jo' Face type thing, and Boston didn't stay to drinkup after.

This year, I'm sure it was more like two WWI flying aces facing off
against each other with a lot of respect but both wanting to win.
After No Side is blown, you'll hear a Beacon Hill rugger say to a
Hartford rugger "Right mate, now how 'bout a beer"....



'Saw
8.2315No need to be jealousBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 18 1992 19:004
FYI, The only teams that got any awards were the Division A champs, mens and
womens.  It is up to the Union to provide awards, and that's all they brought.

Rachael
8.2316PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon May 18 1992 19:1411
8.2317Let's not quibble on this, OK?BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon May 18 1992 21:169
Mac, what is it, you don't believe anything I say these days?  

Let me rephrase myself. 

The entire remembered time Newport Club has hosted the tourney, the union
provided the trophies.  Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know and I
don't really care.

EB
8.2318CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldTue May 19 1992 12:1219
>The entire remembered time Newport Club has hosted the tourney, the union
>provided the trophies.  Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know and I
>don't really care.

When it was in Hartford last year, because of the Scotland-USA game the
same weekend, the only hardware I saw was the plate which we won, and
it was presented to us by John Logan.

I assume Amoskeag got something for winning Division II, but I never saw
it...


At any rate, I hope that Hartford can transfer this hard work and
good rugby into the fall, when the league season is on the line.
It's not out of the question that Hartford could soon be playing in
the Final Four...


'Saw
8.2319PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 19 1992 17:0610
8.2320EDUOZ::THURGARTue May 19 1992 22:174
    Will you two with the big heads, OOPs sorry "big hair" stop having a
    domestic in this note.
    
    Madge
8.2321CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldWed May 20 1992 13:2310
>    Will you two with the big heads, OOPs sorry "big hair" stop having a
>    domestic in this note.
    
Actually, Mac's hair is on the long side, if not "big"....


Could anyone imagine Mac in a Chainsaw-style flattop????


'Saw
8.2322Reverse Mohawk more my style... :-)SASE::SZABODangerous neophyte technoweenieWed May 20 1992 13:355
No, I couldn't imagine Mac in a flat-top.  I can't imagine Rachael as butch,
for that matter...  :-)

Hawk, who's getting closer to a Sean Connery/Major Dad hair cut...

8.2323Hey Moe! How 'bout a beer?RANGER::LEFEBVREPC's 'R UsWed May 20 1992 13:363
    More like Larry fine if you axe me.
    
    Mark.
8.2324CNTROL::CHILDSSir Psycho SexyWed May 20 1992 13:465
 I can't picture you with one Saw, let alone Mac....I can picture Hawk with
 one though..kinda look like JD without the Lats...

 ;^)
8.2325@#$% XilinxesBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyWed May 20 1992 14:453
    Sometimes even the EB gets a little touchy.
    
    Rachael
8.2326Even the kids know when to "walk softly"! :-) SASE::SZABODangerous neophyte technoweenieWed May 20 1992 15:156
    >Sometimes even the EB gets a little touchy.
    
    Those of us who live with women understand these things.  :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.2327Especially when you get hit with a ball OUCH !!QUASER::HUNTERTwo JaKes... Your Worst NightmareWed May 20 1992 20:503
    Golf is a lot like rugby
    
    
8.2328ROCK::GRONOWSKIthe dream is always the same...Thu May 21 1992 14:222
    
    Rugby is a lot like rolling in the mud/dirt/grass with other men.
8.2329CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldThu May 21 1992 14:4847
>    Rugby is a lot like rolling in the mud/dirt/grass with other men.


Actually, rugby is a lot of fun, tremendously addictive, amazingly satisfying,
and is one of the few games I know where almost anyone can play.

With fifteen positions demanding a variety of body sizes, shapes, and
speeds, a rather stocky, squat individual like me can play, as could
a fast speed-merchant stork.

A cameraderie develops on a squad, much like during war time, and
the naturally evolved rugby "rivalry" between fowards and backs suddenly
takes a back seat if the person attempting the intimidation is from 
another team.


Rugby truly illustrates life in that there is a finely tuned balance
on a rugby team, and players of all sizes and shapes, and mentalities,
work together towards a common goal, sacrificing themselves for the
advancement of those goals...

Rugby transcends attempts to compare it with other worldly things, and
one cannot truly explain rugby unless one has played it.  

Why play rugby?  As the bumper sticker says "Rugby because..."


You measure yourself, and you find where you're lacking and you go back
and prepare.  For some, like me, that means the weight room.  For a
winger or fullback, it might mean kicking hundreds of times after practice,
searching for the technique that makes the ball drop on the edge of
the pitch and skitter into touch.


Yeah, in an elementary sense it's rolling around in the grass with
other men, but if you've ever seen a winger take a deep kick, run
up the field, bobbing and weabing, and then cut into the middle, where
the fray is the thickest, and put his thin, fleet body on the line
as he gets tackled, faith in his heart that his forwards will be
there, and then you see the forwards come from behind, manage to
get their feet high enough as they lift those beefy legs, so the spikes
won't grind their man, and then just ruck for all their worth, it's
like the cavalry coming in those old westerns....


Rugby is all that and more.......

8.2330PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 21 1992 14:553
    Paul, come on out to practice with me this fall and you'll find out
    what rugby really is all about.  Or come out this summer and we'll
    break you in slowly with 7-a-side rugby.
8.2331ROCK::GRONOWSKIthe dream is always the same...Thu May 21 1992 15:319
    
    re: .2330
    
    What you're really saying is come out and practice and you'll take
    a couple of shots at me, right?
    
    I'd consider playing.  I've never tried, but I'm sure it would be
    fun.
    
8.2332Indians looking for pitcherDEMING::MCKAYThu May 21 1992 15:374
    Paul play wing and as soon as you touch the ball get rid of it!,
    and don't hurt your right arm.  8*)
    
    Jimbo
8.2333CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldThu May 21 1992 15:5621
Paul,

No one will take shots at you.  


My first rugby experience, as someone who knew only the terms "ruck" and
"maul" and "scrum" and not what they were, was very positive.

Ruggers tend to welcome new players very warmly, and are extremely helpful
in showing you skills and stuff.  No one has ever turned me down when
I've asked for help.

Mac is right -- come out for 7s.  That's a fun way to start to learn
the sport.


And, as the t-shirt says, "It's the second most fun thing you can do with
your body"......


'Saw
8.2334FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu May 21 1992 15:564
    And if you're worried about getting hurt, "I remember when sex was safe
    and rugby was dangerous."
    
    John
8.2335I'd consider giving Rugby another try - but I've forgotten allLUNER::BROOKSI am the margin of error.Thu May 21 1992 16:227
    Uh 'saw, what is the *most* fun thing you can do with your body ?
    
    Besides football ?
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. Good one John !
8.2336hula hoopin' 8^)CTHQ1::LEARYSix, two, and even.Thu May 21 1992 16:251
    
8.2337nude twister?SOLANA::MAY_BRhow big is 20 quintillion?Thu May 21 1992 16:341
    
8.2338Go for itBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu May 21 1992 16:556
Rookies are not beaten on, they are generally given extra time and space to
make their moves.  On all teams, all levels.

EB

PS  'Saw, I'm sure I can't figure out the first best thing...
8.2339CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldThu May 21 1992 17:1510
>PS  'Saw, I'm sure I can't figure out the first best thing...


Why do I have these temptations?  Why do I have these temptations?


'Saw


PS  Hint:  chandeliers.....
8.2340PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 21 1992 18:164
8.2341paranoia is a strange thingFRETZ::HEISERnetwork partner excitedThu May 21 1992 18:171
    
8.2342CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldThu May 21 1992 18:2717
If Paul was playing for Worcester, he'd only have to worry about players
from Old Gold taking shots at him.

If Paul was playing for Hartford, he'd only have to worry about players
from Boston RFC taking shots at him.


There are some intense rivalries in NERFU, and like Mac told me last
Saturday: 

	Albany is new in the league, and they were going to have
	t-shirts printed up which said:

		We don't hate anybody yet.


'Saw
8.2343PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 21 1992 19:116
8.2344RANGER::LEFEBVREPC's 'R UsThu May 21 1992 19:121
    hahahahahahaha !!!!! (tm)
8.2345CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldThu May 21 1992 19:2514
There is a football league in this area that's real football.  

I mean with pads, and hitting and full teams and stuff like that.
I forget what the league is called but the local team is called the
New England Crusaders.

One of the guys I work out with is their center, and he made 1st team
all star last season.  It was a record of sorts, since it's the first
time a rookie ever did that in that league.

So there is "real" football to be found  8^)


'Saw
8.2346LUNER::BROOKSI am the margin of error.Thu May 21 1992 20:2013
    Mac, full contact flag *sounds* wimpy ... but I found out otherwise
    real quick. Talk to anyone who has mixed it up in Worcester's league.
    
    Or ask Jimbo McKay about the hazards of playing QB in Woburn ... :-)
    
    Big difference bub - and I don't see too many rugby people rushing to
    play once they found out the real deal.
    
    Doc
    
    p.s. Once my life settles down, I'd like to give semi-pro ball a shot.
    I'd probably wind up being a poor man's George Plimpton :-), but what
    the hell ....
8.2347I played flag in college, against fraternity teamsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 21 1992 20:2914
8.2348EDUOZ::THURGARThu May 21 1992 22:597
    If you have to wear pads and helmets forget it. Might as well ride a
    motor bike.
    
    2nd best use of body - ankle treatments (for you 'Saw)
    
    
    Madge
8.2349CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldFri May 22 1992 14:1011
I've never seen anyone get his so hard in flag football that they
actually shit themselves.

I do know of one Wanderer who got that response out of a guy from Old Gold,
however.


Ankle treatments are the best, ain't they?


'Saw
8.2350EARRTH::BROOKSI am the margin of error.Fri May 22 1992 15:326
    UUUGGHHH !!!!! That's really gross 'Saw !
    
    Mac, I really didn't think the guys in the Worcester league were trying
    to relive past glory.
    
    I just thought they were plain psychotic - or on work release ....
8.2351I'm starting to get nervousBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri May 22 1992 15:3510
I think my ankle hurts.  I need a chandeliar.

Nationals this weekend...  I am, as we all know, missing two out of three
games, so I doubt I'll even make the roster.  But I am looking forward to
it.  Hope for good news on Tuesday!

I don't have any idea how we'll do.  My guess is either first or third,
given the seeding.  It's out of my hands, now.

Rachael
8.2352Boston International TournamentPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri May 22 1992 16:2512
    Good Luck to Beantown in Nationals!
    
    Those of you in the Boston area are in for a treat this weekend.  The
    Boston Rugby Club is hosting the Boston International Tournament at
    Monsignor Daly Field in Brighton.  The US will be represented by Boston
    RFC and the Atlanta Renegades RFC.  There will be a team from Canada,
    Scotland (Kelso RFC), and I think Bermuda.  Admission is $5/day (at
    least 3 matches are played each day) or $12 for all three days.
    
    Kelso played a warm-up match for the tourney last night against Beacon
    Hill.  They were crushed as Beacon Hill rolled to a pretty easy 35-7
    victory.
8.2353CAMONE::WAYTWO people can change the worldTue May 26 1992 12:5321
Got some bad news this weekend.

Tommy Vann, one of the backs who used to play with me a lot on C side
was killed this weekend in a car accident.  He was 39 years old.

We used to kid each other on just how out of shape we were, and no matter
what drill we were doing, if we were in the same group doing it, we
would end up laughing, or making rude remarks or something.

Tommy didn't play last fall, and I didn't play this spring.  The last
time I saw him was at the Manchester Road Race on Thanksgiving Day.
He and I had and my buddy Chris stood around chatting by my truck, having
a cold brew, and talking about stuff in general.  Around noon time
Tommy headed off to his sister's for Thanksgiving Dinner, and I headed
off to my Mom's....


I'll miss him.


'Saw
8.2354Uninspired performance at NationalsBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue May 26 1992 14:2324
    I got to Minnesota on Saturday night to find out that we had barely won
    our first match against Chicago, and lost to BASH (Bay Area SheHawks)
    10-4.  In the Chicago game, we scored 2 tries when we had the wind,
    they scored 2 tries when they had the wind, and we got the wind in
    overtime and scored for a sudden death win.  In the BASH game, we just
    didn't do enough, and also got a lot of penalties.
    
    We beat Florida State for third place, and BASH beat Berkley for the
    championsips.  I think the best team won.  I saw the finals and BASH
    was playing great, like we did last year.  We have been playing fairly
    uninspired all season, and did not have it to win.
    
    Chicago took 5th, the Amazons (Minnesota) took 6th, the Colorado Old
    Girls (not really an old girls team) took 7th, and Colorado State took
    8th.  I've never heard of Colorado State, they could be one of those
    faux-college teams like Florida State.
    
    I made the roster after all, which made me happy, it was one of my
    goals for the season.  
    
    My brother's wedding was awesome, I was glad I went even before I found
    out we were out of the finals.
    
    Rachael
8.2355apples and orangesJURAN::MCKAYTue May 26 1992 16:325
    Well I've played both flag football and rugby(only for about a month)
    and you can't really compare the two.  I will say that people can get 
    crushed, creamed, stomped, injured, etc... in both and I have.  
    
    Jimbo
8.2356PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 26 1992 17:429
    My condolences to 'Saw and the teammates, friends, and family of Tommy
    Vann.  Man, that's hard.
    
    Rachael, too bad Beantown didn't repeat.  That has to be tough to
    repeat, though.  Knowing a bit about US women's rugby, I'd say the
    teams that were in the Nationals probably saw their only tough
    competetion all year in this tournament.  It's tough to stay on top in
    that environment.  Congrats on your selection to the roster.  Did you
    get to play at all?
8.2357FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Tue May 26 1992 17:5314
    I was happy to see the Boston International Rugby Tournament get some
    coverage on Channel 7 news last evening.  2 complaints about the piece,
    one minor and one major.
    
    The minor complaint has to do with the footage they showed.  Instead of
    showing one of the international teams in action, the footage was of an
    old boys game between Beacon Hill and Boston.
    
    The major complaint has to be the beer-drinking angle.  Instead of
    showing it as a sport that is taken seriously by its players and fans,
    it showed a player drinking a beer after the game and playing up the
    party angle instead of the competitive angle.
    
    John
8.2358CAMONE::WAYTwo Bullets and a LadyTue May 26 1992 17:5413
>    My condolences to 'Saw and the teammates, friends, and family of Tommy
>    Vann.  Man, that's hard.
    
Thanks Mac.

Vann played in the C side back line the last time our two teams met.


Wanderers have a game tonight against the Vancouver KATS, a club which 
has three players on it who play for the Canadian national side...


'Saw
8.2359Hypocrites...PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue May 26 1992 17:5914
8.2360RUGBY1::wayTwo Bullets and a LadyWed May 27 1992 12:0741
The Wanderers did not play the Vancouver KATS last night.  Instead, because
the KATS tour schedule had shifted by a day, it was the welcome party
at Johnny's.

It was a very enjoyable evening.  First off, it'd been a while since I'd
had any Newcy Broon on tap, and second, Johnny's has a couple of new bartenders.
(Andy, a close friend of Matt "Guitar" Murphy, still manages the bar for the
Wanderers).   One of the bartenders really livens the place up, and gives
it some much needed scenery behind the bar.

The Vancouver KATS are a great bunch of guys, eh.  Actually, of the ones
I talked to, more were Kiwis than Canadians.  There are six very good
New Zealand ruggers who play for the KATS.  I was very careful when I heard
the accent to ascertain where the lads were originally from, not wanting
to cause a punch-up by asking if they were from Oz.

I did talk to one player who was Vancouver born and bred, and surprisingly
enough, unlike almost every other Canadian I've heard who hails from west
of Quebec, his speech was not peppered with "eh"s.  I asked him about that
and he said that he spends a lot of time in the States and has learned not
to use "eh" when he's down here.   One of the guys standing next to me
used the old Army expression F***ing-A, and this guy laughed his a** off.


All in all it was a good time. 

As to the game this evening, it should be a good one.  The KATS beat Boston,
and so did we recently, so it should be a good one.


In other Wanderers news, Brian Shell broke his thumb last Saturday.  I believe
he was playing in the tournament, and he managed to crack some guy in the
head in a ruck, and the thumb just shattered.   He taped it up to play on
Sunday, but now he has a cast on it -- a major league cast too....


Not much else is new in Wanderer land.  If any of you are down Hartford
way, and you don't manage to call me up, by all means, check out Johnnys....


'Saw
8.23613 New Englanders to represent the USPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu May 28 1992 13:387
    Two New England RFU players have been named to the Eagles squad which
    will take on Canada in Denver on June 13.  Joe Burke of the Albany
    Knickerbockers and Kevin Swords of Beacon Hill will be making the trek
    to Denver.
    
    A Charles River player was named to the Junior (Under 25-years old)
    Eagles.
8.2362RUGBY1::wayTwo Bullets and a LadyThu May 28 1992 14:1530
Burke and Swords -- perennial Eagles.


Joe Burke has played professional football for the Jets and the Cowboys, and
his rugby shows that.   (Looks to crash too often instead of spinning it out).


Kevin Swords, perhaps the most respected Eagle by other internationals.
Captained the US squad in the World Cup when the regular captain (forget who)
couldn't start due to injury.  Was named to the All-World-Cup XV (as the 
Captain?).


Of course, Brian Shell has a different view of Kevin Swords, since the
Wanderers play against Beacon Hill often:


	"God I hate packing down in the scrum and looking across
	 at his ugly mug."


Brian did well against Swords in the recent Beacon Hill-Hartford championship
game in Newport, only getting one penalty in the lineout all day.



I'm surprised the Eagles have given up on Glen Judge....


'Saw
8.2363RUGBY1::wayTwo Bullets and a LadyMon Jun 01 1992 12:3013
Mac,

A report on the Connecticut Cup, please.


After the going away party for my manager on Friday night I was in NO shape
to travel south....or travel anywhere for that matter.....


I was singing the Keg Beer Blues....


'Saw
8.2364FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Mon Jun 01 1992 12:3417
    Alison says hello to everyone, I spoke with her last night.
    
    She wanted me to post the following in no particular order:
    
    1.  Sympathies to 'Saw and the Hartford gang about Tommy Vann.
    2.  She was in Chicago last week and will be spending much of the next
    few months there.  Her company has several apartments near where she'll
    be working so she'll get to spend a few weekends out there (and see a
    few Cubs games while she's at it).  Mac, if you have addresses and
    phone numbers of any of the rugby clubs in the Chicago area, get them
    to me off-line and I'll make sure she gets the info.
    3.  Totally bummed about the Blackhawks.
    4.  Providence beat Vancouver 10-8 this weekend.  The first ruck, 15
    seconds into the game, resulted in a fight and the ejection of the
    Providence hooker and a Vancouver player.
    
    John
8.2365Connecticut Cup RecapPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 01 1992 14:2953
    It was a pretty strong field for the 14th Annual Connecticut Tournament
    despite no-shows by Beacon Hill and Boston.  There were 9 teams in the
    Cup division and slightly less (6 or 8?) in the Plate division.  The
    Cup division was broken into 3 brackets.  The first round was a
    round-robin within the bracket with matches of 2 22-minute periods. 
    The winners of each bracket, plus a wildcard team advanced to the
    semifinals.
    
    Worcester was placed with Manhattan RFC and Old Gold RFC in one of the
    three brackets in the Cup division.  Worcester travelled to Stratford
    with 17 or 18 players on the squad, a few of whom were college kids
    home for the summer looking for a little extra rugby.  The WRFC put in
    a respectable performance, but "dropped two and barbecued".  Our two
    matches were pretty exemplary of our whole spring season.  We dug
    ourselves into holes early with slow starts.  We then poured it on in
    the second half but had trouble converting once inside the red zone. 
    
    Our first match was against league rival Old Gold.  Old Gold was
    supplemented with the services of a Gloucester standoff who was
    extending his visit to New England after the Boston International
    Tournament.  Worcester came out flat and found themselves trailing 6-0
    fairly quickly.  Old Gold scored a pushover try on a 5 meter scrum to
    extend the lead to 12-0.  Worcester cut the lead to 12-3 at the half on
    a penalty kick.  Worcester started taking control in the second half. 
    The pressure was almost rewarded when our scrumhalf went bursting up
    the middle and into the tryzone, only to drop the ball before he could
    touch it down.  Old Gold cleared it out on the ensuing 22-meter
    dropout.  The resulting momentum swing had Old Gold exerting some
    serious pressure in Worcester's half, but the Worcester wing
    intercepted a pass and raced about 60 yards for a try.  The conversion
    was good to bring the score to 12-9, but time had expired and Worcester
    had let one get away.
    
    In the second match Worcester faced a much stronger Manhatten side than
    the one they had faced earlier in the spring.  Their pack was huge and
    dominated us in the scrums and mauls.  Worcester came out a bit
    intimidated and Manhatten jumped out to a commanding 15-0 lead on 2
    quick tries and a penalty kick.  Worcester cut the lead to 15-3 on a
    penalty kick after showing some signs of life.  At halftime we realized
    that we really could play with these guys and went into the second half
    with a much better attitude and started using our rucking game much
    more effectively.  Most of the play in the second half was spent in
    Manhattan's half of the field.  Worcester's improved play was rewarded
    late in the second half with a try to bring the score to 15-7.  That's
    where it remained as time ran out shortly after.
    
    In the Cup semifinals, Manhattan easily handled Hartford while White
    Plains squeaked one out against wild card New Haven.  White Plains
    captured the Cup for the 4th consecutive year as they manhandled
    Manhattan.
    
    In the Plate division, the Hartford Old Boys defeated the Connecticut
    Yankee B-side in the finals to capture the Plate.
8.2366CAMONE::WAYTwo Bullets and a LadyMon Jun 01 1992 14:4729
>    In the Cup semifinals, Manhattan easily handled Hartford while White
>    Plains squeaked one out against wild card New Haven.  White Plains
>    captured the Cup for the 4th consecutive year as they manhandled
>    Manhattan.

Not surprising.

Hartford rarely brings an A-side to the Connecticut Cup.  The strategy
is usually one of "Bring the B side, let them have the day".  I don't
totally agree with this strategy, because you have to win four games
to win the Connecticut Cup, and when you only bring 4 props, and you
have a warm day......


White Plains, not surprising either.  Did they have what's his name
playing for them?  Gary Lambert?????

    
>    In the Plate division, the Hartford Old Boys defeated the Connecticut
>    Yankee B-side in the finals to capture the Plate.

Hartford Old Boys are still a force.  Despite losing to Mystics Old Boys
last fall, they have consistently won far more than they have lost.
Their pack, and their front row especially, is formidable....



'Saw

8.2367Eagles take on DragonsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 01 1992 14:5015
    The US Eagles defeated Hong Kong 23-16 in San Francisco on April 18. 
    This was the first ever meeting between these two teams.  The US jumped
    out to a commanding 17-4 lead on the strength of tremendous loose play
    by the forwards.  Late in the first half, the Hong Kong forwards
    started contesting more and the US started relying on the foot of
    flyhalf Glen Judge (Hartford).  Hong Kong was able to close the gap to
    17-16 with about 20 minutes left in the match.  Hong Kong was awarded a
    penalty with 8 minutes remaining, but the kick sailed over the top of
    the left goalpost and the touch judge and referee both ruled it no
    good.  Eagle wing Rich Schurfeld (Belmont Shore) scored a converted try
    with no time left to seal the Eagle victory.
    
    The Eagles next test will come against Canada on June 13 in Denver, CO. 
    New England will be represented on the Eagle squad by center Joe Burke
    (Albany), and lock Kevin Swords (Beacon Hill).
8.2368Summary of Law ChangesPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 01 1992 15:1479
    Here are the law changes which will go into effect September 1.  There
    is a moratorium on further law changes for the next 4 years to allow
    for implementation and evaluation.  The next law changes, if any, will
    take place following the next World Cup.  This is taken from the May
    25, 1992 edition of "Rugby).

    1.  Tries will be worth 5 points.  Conversions remain 2 points; drop
    and penalty goals stay at 3 points.

    2.  After a free kick is awarded, a drop goal may not be taken until
    after the ball next becomes dead -- i.e., no more free kicks followed
    by an immediate pass to a second player for a drop goal attempt.  After
    a free kick is taken, the ball must be played normally, become dead (as
    occurs when the whistle is blown for a scrum, lineout, or penalty) and
    then play restarted before a drop goal may be taken.

    3.  Players offside in general play and more than 10 meters from an
    opponent waiting to play the ball may not advance until they have been
    put onside -- i.e., no more running up and stopping 11 meters away from
    the ball catcher to await being put onside.

    4.  No scrumhalf dummying at the base of the scrum.

    5.  If a player catches the ball outside his 22-meter-line, runs back
    behind the line, and then kicks for touch, "he may not gain ground from
    the kick" -- i.e., the lineout would be held opposite where he kicked
    it.

    6.  A free kick directly into touch results in a lineout back at the
    point of the kick.

    7.  When a penalty kick goes directly into touch, the resulting lineout
    will be thrown in by the same team which was awarded the penalty and
    kicked into touch.  For example, if on a penalty to the Red team, Red
    kicks directly into touch, then it's Red's lineout.

    8.  At a penalty or free kick, the kick may be taken quickly without
    waiting for teammates to retire behind the kicker, provided they do not
    become involved in play; i.e., a penalty or free kick isn't brought
    back just because a teammate happened to be in front of the ball when
    it was quickly kicked -- provided the offside teammate does not take
    part in play.

    9.  At a quick throw-in (but NOT AT A FULL LINEOUT), the ball may be
    thrown in anywhere between the line-of-touch (where the ball went into
    touch) and that team's goal line; i.e., if the ball goes out on your
    22-meter-line, you can do a quick throw-in at the 22, or, if you
    prefer, back at your 5-meter-line.  However, once there is a full
    lineout set up at the line of touch, you cannot do a quick throw-in
    somewhere else.  Presumably, you must still do the quick throw-in
    correctly:  straight and at least 5 meters.

    10.  Kickoffs going untouched into in-goal (where the ball is made
    dead) will result in a scrum at midfield, not a dropout as now occurs.

    11.  Kickoffs after a score will be by drop kick, not by place kick. 
    Each half will still be started with a place kick.

    12.  Twelve penalties have been changed to free kicks.  We have only
    been told that they involve intentional knock-ons, lineout boosting,
    moving long in the lineout, hands in the scrum or ruck, and delay of
    game.

    Experimental Variations:

    13.  If the ball becomes unplayable in a ruck or maul, the resulting
    scrum will be awarded to the team NOT IN POSSESSION at the BEGINNING of
    the ruck or maul.  For example, Red runs with the ball and is tied up
    in a ruck/maul.  Red then drives the the ruck/maul 15 yards downfield
    and is moving forward when the pile collapses, the ball gets trapped,
    and the referee blows the whistle for a scrum.  The ball will now be
    put in not by Red but by Blue, since Red had possession at the
    beginning of the ruck/maul.

    14.  The lineout gap between teams is doubled to 1 meter, but the
    requirement of a 1-meter space between teammates is eliminated.

    15.  Lineout jumpers may catch the ball with both hands, or just the
    inside arm, but not the outside arm alone.
8.2369PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 01 1992 15:195
8.2370CAMONE::WAYTwo Bullets and a LadyMon Jun 01 1992 15:2028
>    13.  If the ball becomes unplayable in a ruck or maul, the resulting
>    scrum will be awarded to the team NOT IN POSSESSION at the BEGINNING of
>    the ruck or maul.  For example, Red runs with the ball and is tied up
>    in a ruck/maul.  Red then drives the the ruck/maul 15 yards downfield
>    and is moving forward when the pile collapses, the ball gets trapped,
>    and the referee blows the whistle for a scrum.  The ball will now be
>    put in not by Red but by Blue, since Red had possession at the
>    beginning of the ruck/maul.

Not sure if I like this.  I can understand the intent:  Red is stalled
in their attach, reward Blue's defense, but so often I'll see a ref
whistle something up way to quickly.  Not good.


>    14.  The lineout gap between teams is doubled to 1 meter, but the
>    requirement of a 1-meter space between teammates is eliminated.

Don't like this.  Makes it harder to get across and f*** up their
line out, harder to get across and grab their guy to keep him down.


>    15.  Lineout jumpers may catch the ball with both hands, or just the
>    inside arm, but not the outside arm alone.

Hmmmmm........


'Saw
8.2371Congrats to the men's EaglesBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jun 01 1992 15:577
My impression of the giving possession to Blue when Red is driving thing
is a safety issue.  Get the ball out fast or lose it.  Mac, what's the story.

Also, don't mean to be rude, but is this the US's first international victory?
First in a while?  I've never heard of the men's Eagles winning in 15's.

Rachael
8.2372Details on laws...BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jun 01 1992 15:598
And, while I'm quibbling,

I didn't think it was legal to hold your opposite jumper down anyways.  And I
thought the requirement was 1 metre anyways, was it half a metre?  Seems like
forwards will have to be more assertive about taking possesion of the tunnel
as a unit.

Rachael
8.2373CAMONE::WAYTwo Bullets and a LadyMon Jun 01 1992 16:1720
>I didn't think it was legal to hold your opposite jumper down anyways.  And I
>thought the requirement was 1 metre anyways, was it half a metre?  Seems like
>forwards will have to be more assertive about taking possesion of the tunnel
>as a unit.

It's not legal.  But if the ref is at the other end of the lineout from
where *I* stand, the rule is amended to

	"Do unto others before they do unto you"



AS to the men's 15s, they were quite good last year, beating Japan
twice and losing to Scotland.  In recent times they've also beaten
Canada, but DID get routed by them last year....

But they haven't won since before the World Cup....


'Saw
8.2374PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 01 1992 16:4118
8.2375EDUOZ::THURGARTue Jun 09 1992 00:0314
    To my friends in this note,
    
    As some of you already know. The whole of Educational services in
    Sydney was retrenched on Friday.
    
    So as of the 26th of June I am out of here.
    
    I will miss this notes conference, but I look forward to seeing you all
    very soon (late July early August). Just depends what pans out with the
    work situation.
    
    Going to see Aust V  Scotland on the weekend. Should be good.
    
    Madge (who is quite happy)
8.2376EDUOZ::THURGARTue Jun 09 1992 00:055
    PS.
     What a nice birthday present from Digital.
     It was my 30th on the 8th of June
    
    Madge
8.2377Depressing...SASE::SZABOA Day In The Life.Tue Jun 09 1992 13:079
    Good luck, Madge.  You're not alone.  I believe that in the next few
    weeks, many more will get notices that their jobs have "gone away".  I
    feel very uneasy about it myself, as joining my wife in the
    unemployment line will most certainly ruin us financially...
    
    Good luck to all of us!
    
    Hawk
    
8.2378WRFC take on Providence BuccaneersPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jun 10 1992 20:014
    Just when I thought I was done playing for the season we have a match
    against the Providence Buccaneers at Stonehill College in North Easton,
    MA this Saturday.  Kickoff is at 3 pm.  It is an exhibition game going
    on as part of the Irish Cultural Festival.
8.2379CAMONE::WAYTake not counsel of your fearsWed Jun 10 1992 20:2913
>    Just when I thought I was done playing for the season we have a match
>    against the Providence Buccaneers at Stonehill College in North Easton,
>    MA this Saturday.  Kickoff is at 3 pm.  It is an exhibition game going
>    on as part of the Irish Cultural Festival.


Fun is.

Well, I hope you have good weather.


See you later,
'Saw
8.2380EDUOZ::THURGARMon Jun 15 1992 01:5424
    Australia V Scotland
    Saturday 13 June at the Sydney Footbal Stadium
    Crowd - 40,000 (est)
    
    Result 27-12 Australia
    
    4 tries to 1.
    
    The first half was  very close with Australia looking like a team who
    had not played together. There where a lot of changes to the World Cup 
    winning team. Jason Little (centre)out with glandular fever, Thombs in,
    Podeivin out (breakaway retired), Tim Gavin in, one winger gone
    (Carozza in).
    
    Some good tries were scored . It always seemed like we were going to
    win. In the last 20 minutes they started to click. Some good tries
    were scored. This was there first game since the World Cup and Scotland
    had 6 lead up games. Gavin Hastings played well for Scotland.
    The Aussie forwards looked good, the backs lacked co-ordination. Good
    lead up game for the All Black tests.
    
    Gotta go
    
    Madge
8.2381Weekend WRFC match reportsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 15 1992 13:3856
    Well, I got plenty of rugby in this weekend.  I saw A&W on Saturday. 
    She says hello and that she really misses the gang.
    
    Saturday WRFC took on the Providence Buccaneers at the Irish Cultural
    Festival at Stonehill College.  Since it was only an exhibition game
    and it was hot, we opted to play 3 20-minute periods with an option for
    a 4th period.  The field they set up for us was behind the exhibtors
    tents and was narrow, a bit short, and irregularly marked.  A section
    of the touchline was very close to the exhibitors parking lot, so the
    ref used a quick whistle to avoid collisions with a parked Buick.  The
    ref (the Ancient Rugger, BTW) called the game very tight as he felt
    that it was best to keep control on a hot day in front of folks who had
    never seen the game before.  He probably didn't need to call it that
    tight since both teams were primarily interested in having a good time
    and putting their best foot forward.  That was probably the largest
    crowd either team ever played in front of.  The match was also a good
    recruiting tool for Worcester as we were able to get a game for several
    college students who were either home on break, or had just graduated
    and are looking for employment in the Worcester area.  As a result, we
    were a bit short on experience and cohesiveness, especially with a few
    guys playing out of position.  The Buccaneers were also a bit short in
    cohesiveness as they are basically a summer social side with current
    and past players from Providence and Newport, RI.
    
    The first period was a back and forth ordeal (actually side to side as
    the narrow field led to a lot of lineout play) as both sides worked to
    feel each other out and get used to the play of their own teammates. 
    The only scoring opportunity of the period was a missed penalty kick by
    the Buccaneers.  The second period was highlighted by a good rush from
    the Worcester forwards with some great support play capped off by a 20
    yard by one of the Worcester rookies playing his first game ever at
    flanker (he played lock in college) for a try which was converted.  The
    Buccaneers almost answered back at the end of the period, but
    Worcester's defense held after a few 5 meter scrums.  Providence
    continued the pressure in the opening minutes of the third period and
    finally punched one in to tie the score.  That was the way the score
    remained (6-6) as neither team showed much interest in excersizing the
    option for another 20-minute period.
    
    On Sunday, I made my debut with the Worcester Faded Blacks, our
    old boys team.  Technically I'm not yet eligible for old boys rugby
    since the age has been moved up to 35, but neither Worcester nor
    Harvard Business School could protest as neither had enough players to
    field a full side.  The club had originally scheduled the date as a day
    for the Faded Blacks and retired players to play with the current
    players, but the Faded Blacks scheduled a game against HBS.  As it
    turned out, both sides played with several current WRFC players so the
    original purpose was served.
    
    Although it was a bad day for the Faded Blacks, it was a good day for
    Worcester as all the scoring was done by members of the current club. 
    I think the final score was something like 18-6 in favor of HBS.  It
    was a fun time.  I hadn't played with a lot of these guys since I first
    joined the club and they were regular players.  After the match we
    headed for the beach and a family cookout.  A good time was definitely
    had by all.
8.23827389::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeTue Jun 16 1992 12:4419
    
    (from my 8 year old with a "sports" twist added to keep it legal)
    
    
    Why was the skeleton of the rugby player afraid to cross the road?
    
    
    
    
    
    	CAUSE HE HAD NO GUTS!!!!!!!
    
    
    
    yuk, yuk, yuk.....
    
    
    Kev
    
8.2383Saranac considering dropping womenBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jun 16 1992 13:1412
The Saranac planning committe is apparently considering dropping the women's
bracket entirely because:

a)  A women's team trashed some hotel a few years ago.  (Like the men's
teams never have, and years ago?)

b)  There's been explicit shows of affection among lesbians at the tournament.
(Like heterosexuals don't)

Very nice.  Our president had that direct.

Rachael
8.2384International resultsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jun 16 1992 17:066
From VNS:


::: RUGBY UNION
    Test Match : Australia 27, Scotland 12
    Tour Match : Southland 16, England B 31
8.2385US (men) loses to Canada againPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jun 17 1992 15:387
    The Eagles were defeated by Canada this past weekend in a match in
    Denver, CO by a score of something like 30-9.  Anyone from Canada have
    any details?
    
    The USARFU's failure to replace Steinlager with another sponsor helped
    contribute to several players being unavailable as they were not able
    meet travel expenses.
8.2386BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyThu Jun 18 1992 17:195
Interesting that the US women won the World Cup with _no_ funding and the
US men can't even get their butts to Canada.  Now they know what we've
been up against for the last 12 years.

Rachael
8.2387EDUOZ::THURGARSun Jun 21 1992 22:1214
    Rugby International
    
    Australia 37 Scotland 13 (?) at Ballymore Queensland.
    Fairly easy win for Australia 5 tries to 2.
    Australia win the series 2-0
    
    Tour Match
    
    All Blacks 80 Western Australia 0
    
    Sounds like a tough match :-)
    
    Madge
    
8.2388CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorMon Jun 22 1992 12:0821
>    All Blacks 80 Western Australia 0
>    
>    Sounds like a tough match :-)
    

I can hear it now:

	
	Okay, right, who wants to score the try this time?
	Should we give it to one of the forwards?  Okay, let the
	hooker do it.

	No, he had one in the first half?  Okay, how bout the tighthead.
	Alright then.

	Lads, the tighthead will score this time.  No circus plays, just
	a straight old Clydesdale run?  Okay then, let's go.....


'Saw    

8.2389EDUOZ::THURGARTue Jun 23 1992 02:436
    'Saw
    
    One All Black winger scored four tries. Talk about being greedy.
    Those wingers never learn to pass a ball :-)
    
    Madge
8.2390CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorTue Jun 23 1992 12:3818
>    One All Black winger scored four tries. Talk about being greedy.
>    Those wingers never learn to pass a ball :-)
    
Must've been a babe in the stands he was trying to impress.

Did you notice if he was combing his hair just before taking the pass?


How many times have I seen a winger barrel up field, and in those last
five yards or so there's a prop nearby yelling "With you with you",
and the winger just gets that look in his eyes and dives over himself.  8^)


The only time a winger will pass anything when someone yells "With you, with
you" is when he's got a pitcher of beer.


'Saw
8.2391EDUOZ::THURGARWed Jun 24 1992 00:375
    8.2390
    
    Applies to all backs. :-)
    
    Madge
8.2392Framingham State/WRFC Player named All AmericanPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jun 24 1992 13:547
    Steve Nault, a teammate of mine has been named to the 1992 All American
    squad.  He played his college ball for Framingham State College and
    played the spring season of his senior year with Worcester RFC while
    doing his student teaching.  Steve was the only player selected from
    New England this year and is the only player to ever make the squad
    from a Division III school.  The All Americans will play a series of
    matches in Canada in the next week or so.
8.2393CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorWed Jun 24 1992 17:0610
>    Steve Nault, a teammate of mine has been named to the 1992 All American
>    squad.  He played his college ball for Framingham State College and
>    played the spring season of his senior year with Worcester RFC while
>    doing his student teaching.  Steve was the only player selected from
>    New England this year and is the only player to ever make the squad
>    from a Division III school.  The All Americans will play a series of
>    matches in Canada in the next week or so.


Is that Super Prop?
8.2394PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jun 25 1992 13:458
8.2395WRFC wins RockawayPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jun 25 1992 13:464
    The Worcester RFC (aka 'The Flying Disciples') captured their first
    ever 7s tournament champeenship down at Rockaway, NY this past weekend. 
    They went 5-0 capped off with a win against a Holy Cross Alumni side
    (basically Beacon Hill players).
8.2396CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorThu Jun 25 1992 14:0628
>    Yeah ;^).  He is quite a good player.  He needs work on his scrummaging
>    techinque.  Right now he's just getting by on his lack of height and
>    his stocky, strong build.  I hate playing against guys built like that,
>    but I don't have much problem with him.  Where he really impresses
>    people is in his loose play.  He can cover the field almost like a
>    flanker.


What specifically doesn't he do right.  I mean, you keep your butt down,
arch your neck, and push up, right?  8^)

He is damn fast in the loose, and I think that he is of the mold of the
prototype prop of the future.  Just as Phil Kearns is changing the
image of what a hooker is, guys like Super Prop, and Ewan McKenzie
will make guys like you and me obsolete....



re the Rockaway 7s:

	Congrats!  A fine trophy for your trophy case.

	Are you coming to the Yahoo 7s?  If so, a get together
	is probably in order.....


'Saw

8.2397PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jun 25 1992 14:2612
8.2398CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorThu Jun 25 1992 14:4613
>    He does most things right.  The problem is, he has trouble with big
>    guys like me because he doesn't do the little things that counteract
>    the size/strength mismatch and really make me work.
    

Like twisting, putting his head in your sternum?  Stuff like that?

I have all kinds of trouble under Joe Norton (when I scrum loosehead)
because I can't get a good grip with my left hand.  I don't feel comfortable
NOT having my hand there, but I don't get up very high.


'Saw
8.2399PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jun 25 1992 18:506
8.2400CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorThu Jun 25 1992 21:5118
8.2401MCIS2::DHAMELMorganna: an osculating fanFri Jun 26 1992 13:265
8.2402Rugby denied USOC Class C status and Pan Am Game berthPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 29 1992 15:5717
    USARFU hit another road block in its quest to legitimize rugby in this
    country.  The International Rugby Board (IRB) turned down USARFU's to
    seek recognition from the International Olympic Committee as the
    worldwide ruling body of rugby.  The IRB concluded that countries
    should seek Olympic recognition individually.  The problem with that is
    the U.S. Olympic Committee will not recognize a sport that doesn't have
    a single, recognized ruling body.  USARFU had applied for Class C
    status which would have allowed them to apply for financial grants from
    the USOC.  
    
    In related news, the newly formed Pan American Rugby Association was
    turned down in its request to have rugby included in the 1995 Pan Am
    games.  The reason:  rugby doesn't have a recognized international
    ruling body.
    
    The IRB is recognized by the worldwide rugby community as the ruling
    body.  Why the IRB won't acknowledge that fact is beyond me.
8.2403CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorMon Jun 29 1992 16:1412
Sounds like a Catch-22.


Mac, when is the Acton Ten Men tourney.  (I think it's called Ten Good Men).


For anyone who is interested, July 25 is the Yahoo 7s, in Hartford.
I probably won't be going, but if anyone is interested in attending,
I'll make directions available.....


'Saw
8.2404PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jun 29 1992 16:425
8.2405CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorMon Jun 29 1992 17:0611
>    Sunday, July 19 at the Acton(-Boxborough?) High soccer fields.  The
>    post tournament festivities will be at the Sitting Bull in Maynard
>    starting at around 9 pm.


Guess I won't make that one either 8^)

I'll be in the Poconos....


'Saw
8.2406Canadian Content!!!OTOOA::FELDBRUEGGEMon Jun 29 1992 17:5125
    Hi!
    
    I'm new to this conference. I just found out about it late last week.
    
    Here is some background on myself.
    
    Name: John Feldbruegge
    Home: Ottawa, Ontario Canada
    
    Rugby History: 10 years playing flankker or #8, in Ottawa before I was 
    forced to retire due to a serious injury. I dislocated my hip (on the 
    pitch). I didn't walk for 4 months. I started Refereeing two years ago.
    
    I would not want to be on the loosing side, of a match recently played
    in Ottawa. 
    
    			Ottawa Irish 108	Kingston Panthers 9
    
    Needles to say it was an impressive display by the Irish.
    
    
    Cheers
    
    John
    
8.2407CAMONE::WAYDeath before DishonorMon Jun 29 1992 18:0018
>    Rugby History: 10 years playing flankker or #8, in Ottawa before I was 
>    forced to retire due to a serious injury. I dislocated my hip (on the 
>    pitch). I didn't walk for 4 months. I started Refereeing two years ago.
    

Alright!  Another forward.  So far we're running forwards 4 backs 0.
(well, 5 if you count Madge!)


Welcome aboard John.....


'Saw


PS Sometime (not today because I've just eaten lunch) you can describe
   HOW you got injured.  Sounds pretty serious!!!!    

8.2408What kind of tape is popular in Canada? :-) SASE::SZABOA Day In The Life.Mon Jun 29 1992 18:081
    
8.2409Let's be even more elitest!BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Jun 29 1992 23:199
re .2406

Not only another forward, but another back row player.  Thank gawd I won't
be outnumbered by the props anymore!

Rachael

PS Hawk, I've seen those Canadien players, pay me large sums of money and I'll
tell all.
8.2410CAMONE::WAYYou think slower when you grazeTue Jun 30 1992 13:2613
>Not only another forward, but another back row player.  Thank gawd I won't
>be outnumbered by the props anymore!

Well, Rach, if you count Madge, the score is

	Loose Forwards: 3
	Tight Five    : 2


So younze guys are ahead.....8^)


'Saw
8.2411I love to run and tackle and run and tackle and...BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jun 30 1992 13:546
Can't resist,

We are always ahead of the props, that's why we're back row!!!!


Rachael
8.2412CAMONE::WAYYou think slower when you grazeTue Jun 30 1992 14:0612
>
>We are always ahead of the props, that's why we're back row!!!!

Yes, but where would you be, when you run and tackle, and then you
ruck and the entire ruck is at a standstill, if a big ol' beefy
prop like me didn't come along and give it one good push!  8^)


Props rool!  8^)  (hookers do too, if I have to play hooker)


'Saw
8.2413BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jun 30 1992 18:503
Careful with your wording 'Saw, you're going to excite Hawk.

EB
8.2414CAMONE::WAYYou think slower when you grazeTue Jun 30 1992 19:244
EB,

It don't take much to excite Hawk.  Hell, a good stiff breeze makes
his day.....8^)
8.2415You people know me all too well!SASE::SZABOA Day In The Life.Tue Jun 30 1992 19:309
    > It don't take much to excite Hawk.  Hell, a good stiff breeze makes
    > his day.....8^)
    
    Yeah, and so does the new JC Penney catalog ("underwear, women's")...
    
    HTH.
    
    Hawk
    
8.2416OTOOA::FELDBRUEGGEThu Jul 09 1992 11:536
    This weekend should be very interesting. The Ottawa Indians are hosting
    their 15th annual XVs tournament. They have decided to run the
    tournament under the new laws.
    
    The tournament has 8 'A' divisions teams, 16 'B' division teams and
    10 womens teams confirmed. 
8.2417CAMONE::WAYValhalla I am coming!Thu Jul 09 1992 12:4411
Let us know how the new rules affect play, ok?

I mean, personally, as a prop, the rules don't really affect me, per se.
However, if I play hooker, I might have to remember the rule about where
the line out can be.


I still don't like that new "no-fake" rule.....


'Saw
8.2418CAMONE::WAYValhalla I am coming!Fri Jul 10 1992 14:0114
Last night, on the way to Toad's Place from the parking lot, 
I passed a store called the Boola Boola Shop.  (Toad's is almost ON
the Yale campus).

The t-shirts in the window were for "Yale Football"  "Yale Soccer",
and wondering aloud if they had one for Yale Rugby I went in.

Sure 'nuff they did.

So, today I've get my Yale Rugby t-shirt on.  I feel so, so... so Ivy League.



'Saw
8.2419that's funny, you don't look itCNTROL::CHILDSAndre Marrou for PresidentFri Jul 10 1992 14:520
8.2420CAMONE::WAYValhalla I am coming!Fri Jul 10 1992 15:586
>                      -< that's funny, you don't look it >-

Yeah, I know, that's why I love this shirt so much.....8^)



8.2421Isn't YALE the company that makes locks?AXIS::ROBICHAUDNewYorkSaysNoSLAPingFri Jul 10 1992 16:011
    
8.2422love - 15CNTROL::CHILDSAndre Marrou for PresidentFri Jul 10 1992 16:212
 nice return...
8.2423CAMONE::WAYValhalla I am coming!Fri Jul 10 1992 17:135
Actually, /Don just made the best rugby pun that we've had in here
in quite a while.... and he probably didn't even know it.....


'Saw
8.2424Did so know it...AXIS::ROBICHAUDNewYorkSaysNoSLAPingFri Jul 10 1992 17:251
    
8.2425EDUOZ::THURGARMon Jul 13 1992 03:2018
    Count me as a backrower.
    
    Just a brief hello. I have been away in Perth and am waiting to be 
    transitioned (today).
    
    Australia won the first test against the All Blacks 16-15 in a tough
    encounter. Under the new rules there was more kicking. It will take a
    while for everybody to adjust.
    
    Yesterday the All Blacks beat Queensland in a game that Queensland
    should have won. Next test this weekend (18th). Hopefully Australia
    will win and take the Bledisloe Cup.
    
    Rachael yourt birthday is getting closer.
    
    Bye for now. Hope I can keep in touch on a regular basis.
    
    Madge
8.2426PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Jul 13 1992 14:573
8.2427Almost 26 and over the hillBODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyTue Jul 14 1992 15:1513
	After much waffling, I've decided to play seven's this Saturday in
Hyannis.  I'll post directions when I get them, in case anyone's in the area.
Great chance to see women play rugby in long pink dresses.  The finals are
almost always the pink dresses versus the all Mary's, with the all Mary's
taking it.  We'll see.

	B-day is three weeks from yesterday.  Hope you've all blocked
out large amounts of your weekends for shopping!

	I dream of presents.  But a nice mail message will do.


Rachael
8.2428COBRA::DINSMORESlash, the 2nd coming of AndelmenTue Jul 14 1992 19:085
    in hyannis?  where in hyannis, i will bne in the area this weekend
    
    and would  love to watch the sevens roll..
    
    dinz
8.2429I still dream of a good taping... :-) SASE::SZABODances with unemployedTue Jul 14 1992 19:195
    dinz, you should go.  I'm sitting here rolling at the thought of
    Rachael taping you up and generally main-handling you!  :-)
    
    Hawk
    
8.2430COBRA::DINSMORESlash, the 2nd coming of AndelmenTue Jul 14 1992 19:242
    TAPING ME UP?  please explain.. im  baffled and bemused..
    
8.2431CAMONE::WAYI'm a crawling king snake, babyTue Jul 14 1992 19:4632
It's a long story Dinz.

Let me start it like this:

	If you play certain positions on a rugby team (second row, 
	props (sometimes), the hooker), mainly positions in the
	scrummage, your ears can take a beating and eventually
	you get cauliflower ear, or the backs of the spilt open
	and bleed.

	To prevent that, a lot of those players wrap tape around them
	(like a headband), and that holds your ears back on your head
	so none of that bad stuff happens.

	Nowadays, most of them use black electrical tape to do that.


Hawk, for a long time, has had this fantasy of being taped up by a
lady rugger, and being generally man-handled, and stomped with rugby
cleats....



Now, totally seriously, you should go.  7s Rugby is a great way to learn
to watch the game -- it's quick, it's fun.   A lot of these summer 
tournaments are all tongue-in-cheek as some teams will play in costume
etc etc....

Go check it out.....


'Saw
8.2432COBRA::DINSMORESlash, the 2nd coming of AndelmenTue Jul 14 1992 19:507
    i will, im running a race in osterville saturday  morn, and sundays
    plan
    
    arent  etched in stone yet..
    
    always knew  that hawk was a  animal :)
    
8.2433CTHQ2::LEARYSix, two, and even.Tue Jul 14 1992 19:5723
    Gots a question fer you RugbyKrishnas(TM),
    Was channel surfin' the other day ( love dat term, who TM'd it) and
    saw a rugby club match televised on NESN. It was billed as the UK
    vs. ( some Aussie team that began with C). It turned out to be 
    Wigan, recent Cup winners in the UK, vs the Aussie team. Great game
    with the Aussie club up 16-10 with under 2 minutes to play. However
    the Aussie club blew it big time whilst they tried to kill the clock
    and fumbled around mid-pitch. Mighty Wigan blew down the field to tie
    with a try and kick and raored through the Aussie club in sudden death
    for a 20-16 win. What a match. Anyone catch it.
    
    And one question. Sometime during the match, the Aussie center(er prop,
    hooker?) didn't center it back to his back, he just picked up the ball,
    kicked it forward and downed it in the endzone for a try. A real
    heads-up play, but looked illegal ( I know it wasn't but nobody else
    tried it during the match). What do you call this maneuver ( don't say
    a try either!) ?
    
    MikeL
    
    
    
    
8.2434CAMONE::WAYI'm a crawling king snake, babyTue Jul 14 1992 19:5918
>    And one question. Sometime during the match, the Aussie center(er prop,
>    hooker?) didn't center it back to his back, he just picked up the ball,
>    kicked it forward and downed it in the endzone for a try. A real
>    heads-up play, but looked illegal ( I know it wasn't but nobody else
>    tried it during the match). What do you call this maneuver ( don't say
>    a try either!) ?
    
If it was Wigan, I'm thinking that this might have been rugby LEAGUE and
not UNION.  

I think the rules might be slightly different.  I'm not sure though.


'Saw    
    
    
    

8.2435Water Polo is a lot like channel surfin'SHALOT::MEDVIDdancin' pretzelsTue Jul 14 1992 20:066
    RE: Channel Surfin' - that would be my TM, thank you.
    
    RE: tape - you should wear caps like us water polo players, not that it
    did my lip much good last Wednesday.
    
    	--dan'l
8.2436CTHQ2::LEARYSix, two, and even.Tue Jul 14 1992 20:1415
    Why dan'l
    With your watery background, ah shoulda known twas you!!
    
    'Saw,
    Not sure if it was UNION or LEAGUE, but in retrospect, I saw a
    similar type play during that Cup final in England. A back from
    Wigan had just received a pass and was running down the sideline
    when he kicked it forward into the endzone diagonally towards the
    opposite corner. His teammate dove onto it into the endzone justy
    ahead of the defender and was awarded a try. Not quite the same
    as the Wigan-Aussie match, but a similar maneuver. 
    
    MikeL
    
    
8.2437Not just any lady rugger, 'Saw... :-) SASE::SZABODances with unemployedTue Jul 14 1992 20:159
    > RE: tape - you should wear caps like us water polo players, not that
    > it did my lip much good last Wednesday.
    
    Ya musta looked like a Lithuanian Mick Jagger....  :-)
    
    Hawk
    
    P.S.  For anyone wondering, that was vintage dInz!  :-)
         
8.2438other sports need this featureFRETZ::HEISERHey Mildred, check this out!Tue Jul 14 1992 20:291
    I think Dennis Rodman should tape his ears too.
8.2439PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jul 14 1992 20:4722
8.2440Tens Tournament in Acton on SundayPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Jul 14 1992 20:555
    And for those of you in GMA who would like to see some rugby but can't
    make it to the Cape, Sunday is the day of the Annual 10 Good Men
    Tournament at Acton-Boxborough HS starting at noon.  I'll probably be
    there.  I just don't know yet if I'll be playing for the WRFC or the
    WPI Old Goats.
8.2441EDUOZ::THURGARTue Jul 14 1992 22:5214
    If Wigan was playing it was definitely League (Yuk).
    
    Michael Jordan should tape his ears.
    
    On the "kick and chase scenario". Australia has scored a few tries
    this year with that manouever. Having very fast wingers and centres,
    the defense standing flat, someone who can kick well - and away you go.
    Try time.
    
    Madge
    
    PS. Rachael being a poor retrenchee, a present may be out of the
    question, but you will have my best wishes. And maybe a visit in the
    future
8.2442CAMONE::WAYI'm a crawling king snake, babyWed Jul 15 1992 12:4460
re "scrum caps":

	Dan'l, they have scrum caps like that, and in the old days
	a lot of second rows would wear them.  

	However, the biggest complaint I've heard is that it gives
	an opponent one more thing to grab onto.


re kicking ahead:

	Yep, you can always kick the ball forward in rugby, however, 
	if another player is going to play the ball (other than the
	kicker) he must:

		a) either be BEHIND the kicker when the ball is kicked.

			or

		b) be put "onside" by the kicker (or another player
		   who was behind the kicker) passing him.


	If you're a relatively slow forward like me, you are quite often
	put into an offsides position.   Say I'm at midfield, and the
	opponents back line lofts a long kick over my head, and my
	fullback takes it deep.   He runs it up a ways, but he's still
	behind me, and then he strategically kicks the ball ahead.

	I cannot simply run to play the ball.  If I do so, I'll be called
	for offsides.  So, to let the ref know that I'm aware I'm in
	an offsides position, I'll raise my hand, and make no attempt
	to play the ball.   In addition, I'll kind of make it look
	like I'm backing up to get onsides (but, being a relatively slow
	and tired forward, this is just for show).

	As soon as the fullback has kicked the ball, he knows he has men
	in an offsides position, so he'll start racing up the field.
	(Other backs who may have been behind him will do that too).

	Once he has passed us "offside players", he'll yell "You're all
	on", and at that point we can pursue and attempt to play the ball.


	
	You usually see a kick into the try zone like the one mentioned,
	when a back realizes that he can't beat the defender on foot speed
	alone (perhaps the defender has the angle), so he'll boot it, 
	trying to get it to drop or roll into the try zone.   Hopefully
	the other wing or a center will be motoring to get to it.
	
	And of course the back who kicked it no longer has the ball, so
	the defender must turn and go for the ball.  So the back who kicked
	it might, at that point, be able to beat the defender in a flat out
	race.....



'Saw

8.2443PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jul 15 1992 12:547
    Someone once told me that putting your hand up to signal you are
    offsides is just begging to be called offsides.  I don't do it and
    don't coach it.
    
    'Saw, with the new laws you need to add a (c) to your explanation of
    offsides.  A player can no longer just wait around to be put onsides no
    matter where he is on the field.  He must retreat.
8.2444CAMONE::WAYI'm a crawling king snake, babyWed Jul 15 1992 13:0735
>    Someone once told me that putting your hand up to signal you are
>    offsides is just begging to be called offsides.  I don't do it and
>    don't coach it.

The way I was taught was this:

	If you're within ten yards of the player attempting to play the
	ball, retreat.  
	
	If you get "popped" out of the wrong side of a ruck or maul,
	put your hand up, and move (don't dawdle) to the proper side,
	coming fully around to rejoin.  If you don't intend to rejoin,
	back off 5 yards on your side of it.

	If it's a kick situation, start to retreat, put your hand up,
	letting the ref know that you are offsides, and that you are
	not making any attempt to interfere, or play the ball.

I've never been called offsides because of that.   As long
as you're not making an attempt to play the ball, I've never
seen a ref call it.  But, like we both know, there probably is a 
ref out there who will.......


>    'Saw, with the new laws you need to add a (c) to your explanation of
>    offsides.  A player can no longer just wait around to be put onsides no
>    matter where he is on the field.  He must retreat.

Yeah, I agree.  I don't wait around, I start moving back.  I'm just
not running 8^)


'SAw


8.2445CTHQ2::LEARYSix, two, and even.Wed Jul 15 1992 16:4113
    Thanks for the information guys.
    
    Actually I painted the incorrect scenario for the UK League
    Cup game involving Wigan. As the Wigan wing raced down the sideline
    and he kicked the ball diagonally towards the opposite end of the endzone,
    his teammate did not gain possesion of the ball for a try rather he
    dove and touched it and was awarded some points. Now I know it wasn't a
    try, so do any of you know what the ref could have decided?
    
    Memory starting to click in correctly,
    
    MikeL
    
8.2446CAMONE::WAYI'm a crawling king snake, babyWed Jul 15 1992 17:1836
>    Actually I painted the incorrect scenario for the UK League
>    Cup game involving Wigan. As the Wigan wing raced down the sideline
>    and he kicked the ball diagonally towards the opposite end of the endzone,
>    his teammate did not gain possesion of the ball for a try rather he
>    dove and touched it and was awarded some points. Now I know it wasn't a
>    try, so do any of you know what the ref could have decided?
    

Possession is not required to score a try.  Merely downward pressure exerted
on the ball.


Case study:  Hartford vs New Haven, Connecticut Cup 1991.


	Hartford was awarded a penalty and elected to kick.  A missed
	penalty kick is a live ball.

	The kick went wide, bounced in the try zone.  The New Haven
	defender mistakenly assumed, as it bounced high in the air,
	that it would bounce out the back of the zone.  It did not,
	it bounced back in towards the field.

	One of our players was following up, sprinting towards the
	ball.  The New Haven rugger recovered and dove at the ball
	with outstretched arms.   

	He and Dennis (our guy) touched the ball at the same instant.
	The New Haven player grasped the sides of the ball, Dennis
	touched on top and pushed down.   

	A try was awarded to Hartford.


'Saw    

8.2447CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeWed Jul 22 1992 21:0412
    This is Great!
    
    
    
    Seven whole days without a note!
    
    ;^)
    
    BTW - where's Rach?
    
    Kev
    
8.2448CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meThu Jul 23 1992 12:2617
>    Seven whole days without a note!
    
This is the off-season.

Summer is taken up mainly with 7s tournaments, and you don't often
find props playing 7s.  That covers Mac and me, and Rach played
recently, and I think is trying to rest up a little to get ready for
fall.


It's a common complaint among ruggers about midway through the fall
season, if they've played a lot of 7s during the summer, that they
feel really rundown....


'Saw    

8.2449The rolls were coloed too!CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Jul 23 1992 12:3710
    Yabut there's always the (boring!) exercise schedule
    updates!
    
    ;^)
    
    Rach, ya coming on the 31st?  Becha Hawk would like to use the
    'lectrical tape he got last winter!
    
    Kev
    
8.2450OOps make that *colored* (breaking in new fingers today)CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Jul 23 1992 12:381
    
8.2451SCHOOL::RIEURead his lips...Know new taxesThu Jul 23 1992 12:432
       Nice going Kev, you had to start it up again eh?
                                Denny 8^)
8.2452Double dare?CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Jul 23 1992 14:349
    Don't worry Denny,
    
    3 to 1 MtM moves my note elsewhere.  He's sort of a purist when it
    comes to polluting this particular note!
    
    many ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.2453CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meThu Jul 23 1992 14:4451
Well, hell, I can give you an exercise schedule update:


	Monday, Friday:   Chest, Back, Biceps

			  usually Bench Press,
				  Flies (flat or inclined)
				  Nautilus Super Back Machine for lower
				    back.  Mike won't let me do dead lifts.

				  Lat Pulldowns,
				  Seated Rows or Row Pulldowns
			 	  Bent Over dumbbell rows

				  Bar Curls
				  Dumbbell Curls.

				  Crunches, Lower Ab exercise

	Wednesday
	Saturday:	  Legs, Shoulders, Triceps

			  usually Squats,
				  Leg Extensions
				  Leg Curls

				  Military Press
				  Lateral Dumbbell Raises
				  Bent Over Lateral Dumbbell Raises
			
				  Shrugs (switch off w/ Upright Rows)

				  Close Grip Bench Press (for tris)
				  Tricep Pushdowns
				  Kickbacks

				  Dips (if I'm feeling good)

				  Crunches, Lower Ab exercise



Am seeing pretty decent results from this schedule.....


Hope this helps, Kev.

Oh yeah, I also put air in my rugby ball last week....


'Saw
8.2454CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Jul 23 1992 14:578
    Re: Air
    
    Dumb move, doncha know you'll have to change the air in the fall?
    Summer air in the ball during the fall will not be good for the
    scrum!
    
    Kev
    
8.2455Awards ceremony...SASE::SZABOKen &amp; me: gone fishin'!Thu Jul 23 1992 15:114
    Hey Kev, ya bringing 2 shopping bags full of props to the get-together?
    
    Hawk
    
8.2456mebbe, mebbe not.....y'll find out nexted weekCSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Jul 23 1992 15:151
    
8.2457PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Jul 23 1992 15:211
    I don't think 'Saw nor I will fit in a shopping bag...
8.2458CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meThu Jul 23 1992 15:238
>    I don't think 'Saw nor I will fit in a shopping bag...


Hell, I don't think I could get one cheek in a shopping bag, never mind
my entire butt.


'Saw
8.2459AXIS::CHAPPELNyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk, That's a pipen !Thu Jul 23 1992 15:5310
8.2460AXIS::ROBICHAUDRIP Howard SternThu Jul 23 1992 16:3135
Well, hell, I can give you an exercise schedule update too:


	Monday-Friday:   16:00-16:30
			 Watch Inside Edition
			 Drink beer
			 Eat Doritos

			 16:30-17:00
			 Watch Now It Can Be Told
			 Drink beer
			 Eat Lays Potato(e) Chips

			 17:00-17:30
			 Watch Hardcopy
			 Drink beer
			 Eat Hostess Cupcakes

			 17:30-18:00
			 Watch Current Affair
			 Drink beer
			 No Food (Don't want to spoil supper)

			 18:00
			 Break for supper

			 19:00-20:00
			 Watch Married With Children
			 Drink Beer
			 Eat Pringles Lite


Am seeing pretty decent results from this schedule.....

				/Don
8.2461AXIS::CHAPPELNyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk, That's a pipen !Thu Jul 23 1992 16:371
Thanks /'r.  That's a much more acceptable schedule.
8.2462CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meThu Jul 23 1992 16:414
I think ruggers prefer Hostess Twinkies with their beer....


'Saw
8.2463SCHOOL::RIEURead his lips...Know new taxesThu Jul 23 1992 16:462
       You forgot the breakfast of Cap'n Crunch and beer Slash?
                                 Denny
8.2464That's the advanced workout DennyAXIS::ROBICHAUDRIP Howard SternFri Jul 24 1992 10:181
    
8.2465SCHOOL::RIEURead his lips...Know new taxesFri Jul 24 1992 11:372
       Yeah, we all know you aren't ready for THAT yet!!
                                 Denny
8.2466CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meFri Jul 24 1992 12:367
The one thing that I should have been doing a lot of, I haven't been doing
much of, is running.

I think I'm going to pay for that heavily once practice starts....


'Saw
8.2467Great running weather...CTHQ1::MCCULLOUGHComing soon: Lindsey's Sister!!Fri Jul 24 1992 14:076
Sawmain

Da cool early morning or early evening hours this time of year are a perfect 
backdrop to a few casual miles.  Just make sure to pump up the fluid intake.

=Bob=
8.2468Was it you on TV??SALES::THILLFri Jul 24 1992 14:3211
    Rachael,
    
    Was that YOU on TV yesterday??? I watched the news on Channel 5, and
    naturally they had interviews with several people outside the Mill, with 
    the "Digital Employee" tag line. One woman with curly brown hair was ID 
    as Rachael Berman, so I thought it was you...
    
    I wasn't sure, but if'n you said something like, "Quarterly earnings
    reports are a lot like Rugby..." there would be no doubt....
    
    Tom
8.2469AXIS::CHAPPELNyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk, That's a pipen !Fri Jul 24 1992 14:378
8.2470Autographs at T.O.P. -> only $2.50ea ;^)CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeFri Jul 24 1992 15:2811
    
    YOWZA!!!
    
    First I'm on radio and then Rach is on tee vee!!!!!
    
    whatta country!
    
    I remain,
    a verbal celebrity!
    Kev
    
8.2471CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meFri Jul 24 1992 15:5410
Never mind the autograph, I'm waiting for the poster to come out (of
Rach, not Kev!)


Running.  I usually run in the evening, just after work.  I enjoy running
when it's hot.  A couple of summers ago I used to run at noon time.
It's really not bad once you get acclimated....


'Saw
8.2472SASE::SZABOKen &amp; me: gone fishin'!Fri Jul 24 1992 16:124
    Hey, I want one a them Rachael posters!  Youse have my address...
    
    Hawk
    
8.2473XCELR8::DHAMELFri Jul 24 1992 17:038
    
    >Running.  I usually run in the evening, just after work.
    
    I usually run in the morning, just after my prune juice and bran
    muffin.
    
    Dickstah
    
8.2474Endomorphs on the wayCTHQ4::LEARYChainsaw: Possible ND convert?Fri Jul 24 1992 18:045
    Ah Dickstah,
    Don't you love that runner's high?
    
    MikeL
    
8.2475CUPMK::DEVLINJe voudrais boire quelque chose.Fri Jul 24 1992 18:415
Saw,

Real men run at lunch, in the heat of day.   Real women do tooooo...

JD
8.2476CTHQ2::MCCULLOUGHComing soon: Lindsey's Sister!!Fri Jul 24 1992 18:554
8.2477CAMONE::WAYNeed a remedy for what's ailin' meFri Jul 24 1992 18:5813
>Real men run at lunch, in the heat of day.   Real women do tooooo...

That's what I used to do when we were in Bloomfield.  Two or three summers
ago I prided myself on the fact that we had a run of like 17 days where
it was above 95 degrees, and I ran every one.

But here in SPO we have NO SHOWERS.  Running at lunchtime is no longer
really an option, unfortunately.

Believe me, in the area we are in here in the city, I'd get plenty of
speedwork in too.

'Saw
8.2478VisitingEDUOZ::THURGARTue Jul 28 1992 03:1630
    Rachael was on the news. What about.
    I want my poster too.
    Dont forget she is having a birthday real soon.
    
    Now on to rugby.
    
    Aust beat the All Blacks in the 2nd test by 2 points. Very close
    exciting game. This means that Aust won the Bledisloe Cup.
    Richard Loe (Kiwi prop) broke Paul Carozzas nose after Carozza had
    scored a try. Deliberate elbow to the face. No action taken by the ref
    or the NZ rugby. One of the ugliest despicable incidents I have ever
    seen on a rugby field. It made me sick. It was an act of cowardice.
    Plus no action being taken makes it worse.
    
    The 3rd test was won by the All Blacks by 3 points. Aust was flat.
    
    But now they have the World Cup and The Bledisoe Cup and really are the
    best.
    
    The All Blacks now go to South Africa for a test then the Wallabies go
    to SA for a test. I think Nick Farr Jones, Michael Lynagh and David
    Campese will all retire after South Africa. IMHO.
    
    I think that both teams will beat SA as they maybe big but will be left
    behind with the pace of the game. It is very hard to prepare for that
    high standard of rugby unless you have played against it.
    
    Bye
    
    Madge (just in for a visit)
8.2479EDUOZ::THURGARFri Jul 31 1992 01:3615
    Thought I would get in early and wish Rachael a very happy 26th
    birthday on Monday August 3.
    
    I hope that you get the present I sent you (via internal mail - you may
    be 60 by the time you get it).
    
    Have a wonderful day and may the next year be injury free, trouble free
    but with lots of rucking and mauling.
    
    All the best 
    
    Madge
    
    PS. I will continue to try and get in this note. Even though it may
    only be once a month. Gone but not forgotten.
8.2480BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyFri Jul 31 1992 16:3149
First off, thanks Madge!

I got the greatest present, you will all be jealous, this awesome book from
the Sydney something Herald (it's at home) all about the greatest men's team
in the world, with lots of pictures so even Hawk could read it.

You guys are going to have to do some serious shopping this weekend to 
catch up to that one.

Second,
	Where have I been?  On a rugby vacation...  I've been playing DEC 
soccer.  I have no clue how to play, but everyone says I'm very, um,
aggressive.  The goalie last Tuesday told me I should drink decaf.  I told
him I don't drink coffee and he suggested I start.  They have a lot of funny
laws in soccer but it's a good time and someday I will hopefully learn to
break less of them per unit time.
	I am considering bagging rugby in the Fall, playing for DEC intramural
soccer, DEC women's soccer, and DEC coed (men's) intercorporate soccer, and
playing water polo on Saturdays.  With the money I save, I am considering a
trip to Germany and Scotland in the Fall, and am almost definite to go to the
Caymen Islands in January with some ole' hockey buddies.

Third,
	Yep that was me on the news.  I was completely embarassed because I 
found out later we're not supposed to talk to reporters.  I didn't catch the
clip because I had to go to class, but one of the guys I work with taped it
for me and we had a viewing the next day in the Sheridan-HeathCliffe (?)
CR.  They knew I felt bad so they all made fun of me to excess until I couldn't
help but feel all warm and fuzzy.  They being my coworkers, who are the most
excellent in the world.  I thought my hair looked OK, but I sounded nerdy.
But, I am nerdy, so no big surprise there.  Mom and Dad went to MIT, too.

Fourth,
	What thing on the 31st?

I decided to get myself a birthday present, I'm going to get a pair of running
shoes from Brine's, my favorite sporting goods store in the universe.  If you
ever go to the one in Harvard Square, be sure to tell the owner (Jim Brine,
usually downstairs) that you know me.  My roommate is going to wrap it for me
and give it to me when we have a cake on Saturday night.  But don't tell me,
I love surprises.

My teammates told me that last Tuesday, I ran clear from the center of the 
field to the edge, hauled off and kicked some guy from behind, and ran off.
I recollect no such thing, but they all said it so I don't think they're
making it up.  I guess I have a ways to go before I become a slick soccer
player.

Rachael
8.2481MSBOS::DINSMOREMARLINS, AND SHARKS FEASTFri Jul 31 1992 16:512
    go  rachael  go!!!!!!!!!!!!!! out that ball in the netskie!
    
8.2482CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityFri Jul 31 1992 17:3011
Poor Rach....

You're going backwards, kiddo.  It was William whats-his-name all those
years ago at Rugby school who picked up the ball and liberated soccer
players forever -- and made the world's coolest game in the process 8^)


Water polo?  Better send dan'l some mail.....


'Saw
8.2483Hand up, not!BODICA::BERMANgive blood play rugbyMon Aug 03 1992 14:3214
And Saw, by the way, about the hand up thing.

If you're offsides and visibly making an effort to get onsides, in the
cases where it makes a difference, you won't get called.

If you are offsides and making a visible effort to get onsides but are
still obstructing the play somehow, you will get called.

Putting your hand up does not make a difference and is generally frowned upon
where I come from as a way of drawing the ref's attention to the fact that 
you're offsides.  I've had refs tell me they wouldn't have noticed/called me
if I hadn't had my hand up (I was taught to do that in college).

Rach the old lady.
8.2484CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityMon Aug 03 1992 15:176
>Putting your hand up does not make a difference and is generally frowned upon
>where I come from as a way of drawing the ref's attention to the fact that 
>you're offsides.  I've had refs tell me they wouldn't have noticed/called me
>if I hadn't had my hand up (I was taught to do that in college).

Okay, from now on I'll only put my hand up when I want to pee then.....8^)
8.2485Worcester 7s -- August 8MAPVAX::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 04 1992 19:108
    This Saturday the Annual Worcester 7s Tournament will be held at
    Burncoat High School on Burncoat Street in Worcester.  The tournament
    will run from 9 am to 5 pm.
    
    Come see this exciting, wide-open style of rugby featuring teams from
    throughout the Northeast.
    
    For more details, send me mail.
8.2486WRFC Fall 1992 ScheduleMAPVAX::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 04 1992 19:1611
    Sept.  12	Newport RFC				Home
    	   19	Boston Irish Wolfhounds RFC		Framingham, MA
    	   26	TBA
    Oct.    3	Old Gold RFC				Home
    	   10	Springfield Rifles RFC			Springfield, MA
           17	Portland RFC				Home
    	   24	Albany Knickerbockers RFC		Home
    	   31	Burlington RFC				Burlington, VT
    
    Home games are held at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Matches kickoff at 1 pm.
8.2487Worcester Shamrocks Fall 1992 ScheduleMAPVAX::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 04 1992 19:359
    Sept.  19	Hartford Wild Roses RFC			Home
    	   26	Merrimack Valley RFC			Away
    Oct.    3	Beantown RFC				Away
    	   17	Portland Women's RFC			Home
    	   24	Boston Women's RFC			Home
    
    Home games are played at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester.  Kickoff is 11 am except for Sept. 19 which is at 1 pm.
    
8.2488CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeWed Aug 05 1992 13:207
    Any takers on the bet that the "open" date on Sept. 26
    WON'T be filled with a certain team from Haffa?????
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.2489CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityWed Aug 05 1992 13:2310
>    Any takers on the bet that the "open" date on Sept. 26
>    WON'T be filled with a certain team from Haffa?????
    
It'd be a dumb bet, because Hartford doesn't have an open date then.
We're smack in the middle of our league season, probably playing
New Haven, or Amoskeag....


'Saw    

8.2490SpinControl(tm) ALERT!!!!!!!CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeWed Aug 05 1992 13:251
    
8.2491CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityWed Aug 05 1992 14:1319
No, it's not spin control.

After the second week of September, for the nexted 7 weeks, it's always
league games.  By then it's the end of October.

Early season has some traditional fall opponents -- White Plains, 
sometimes Manhattan.  Late fall after season used to be OMEX (sometimes),
Albany (every year)....

Simply put, we have no open dates excepting LATE in the season (read
that early November) and only then if we are not in the playoffs.

Spring is a better time to play Worcester, but again, Hartford doesn't
like to schedule them because playing a Division II club isn't gonna
raise your level of play.  (Although I'd rather play a NE League
Divison II club than some of the "dirty" clubs from the Met Union)


'Saw
8.2492CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityWed Aug 05 1992 14:143
And besides, Kev.  You get your butt out there playing hooker or wing
for WRFC, and I'll start lobbying our fixtures secretary to get WRFC
back on the schedule....8^)
8.2493PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 05 1992 14:563
    Div. I in New England has 8 teams, Div. II has 9.  This results in
    teams in Div. II having a bye week during the league schedule while
    Div. I teams do not.
8.2494CUPMK::DEVLINJe voudrais boire quelque chose.Wed Aug 05 1992 14:578
Frank -

What the hell does a 'fixtures secretary" do?   Make sure all you guys have
yer light bulbs screwed in right?   Make sure yer plumbing doesn't leak?

Perplexed,

JD
8.2495PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Aug 05 1992 15:076
8.24966th Annual Worcester 7sPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Aug 10 1992 16:2643
    Another successful Worcester 7s Tournament has come and gone.  19 teams
    took to the pitch at Burncoat HS in Worcester on Saturday.  The
    tournament was played using the Hong Kong format.  There were 5 pools
    of 3 teams and 1 pool of 4.  The winners of each pool went into the
    Championship round, the second place teams went to the Plate round, and
    the last place teams went to the Bowl round.
    
    Rockaway RFC captured the Tournament Championship with a convincing
    victory over the Flying Disciples from Worcester.
    
    I didn't catch the Plate finals as I was busy flipping burgers.  The
    match was between Central Connecticut State University and New Britain,
    CT.
    
    The Pterodactyls (a team of Amoskeag forwards) won the Bowl by
    defeating the Dead Smileys of Worcester.
    
    I once again put together a team of WPI alumni.  Alumni turnout was
    small this year, so I had to supplement with a WPI senior and a friend
    of an alumnus.  Due to transportation problems I even had to recruit a
    Flying Disciple for our first match in order to field a full team.
    
    Our first match was against the Pterodactyls.  It was a very physical
    game as they forced us to play their forward style.  We ended up
    prevailing with a 12-0 victory, featuring a try by yours truly.  We
    lost our second match 36-0 to Spare Parts, a team from Beacon Hill. 
    With a 1-1 record we advanced to the Plate Round.
    
    Our first match of the Plate round pitted us against Central
    Connecticut.  It was an exciting game with each side trading tries and
    putting up some good defensive stands.  In the end though CCSU pulled
    away with 2 unanswered tries in the closing minutes.  I think the final
    score was 20-8.  I notched my second try of the tournament.  The loss
    pretty much put us out of the hunt for hardware, but we took the field
    for our fourth match of the day looking to salvage some pride and a
    chance to even our record.  The opponents were Not the Eagles from the
    University of Vermont.  Not the Eagles appeared to score at will in the
    first half, we tightened up a bit in the second half and may have even
    prevented them from scoring and avoided the shoutout by scoring a try
    with no time left.
    
    So, we went 1-3 on the day, but we all had a great time which was our
    goal for the tournament.
8.2497CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityMon Aug 10 1992 16:4419
>    I didn't catch the Plate finals as I was busy flipping burgers.  The
>    match was between Central Connecticut State University and New Britain,
>    CT.

Was there a team from New Britain AND a CCSU team?  I know that CCSU
is IN New Britain....

    
>    So, we went 1-3 on the day, but we all had a great time which was our
>    goal for the tournament.


Best way to play a 7s tournament if you're built like me and Mac?

Lose Three and Bar-b-que....8^)


'Saw

8.2498PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Aug 10 1992 17:5728
8.2499Law Changes and some USARFU InterpretationsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 13 1992 16:59172
8.2500CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityThu Aug 13 1992 17:1113
8.2501PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Aug 13 1992 19:258
8.2502CAMONE::WAYThere are monkey boys in the facilityThu Aug 13 1992 19:5914
>    That's the way I read it.  It's also consistent with the other lineout
>    rules -- not being able to use only the outside hand to catch/tap the
>    ball will eliminate reaching across to hold down an opposing jumper or
>    using him for a boost, and more spacing in the tunnel between
>    opponents.


Then in my best Irish rugger accent:

	"Why that'll turn the lineouts into a bunch o' nancy boys
	at tea!"


'Saw
8.2503SNOFS2::THURGARTue Aug 18 1992 02:3815
    The All Blacks beat the Springboks on Saturday night 27-24. It was a
    good game that the All Blacks had under control. They lead by as much
    as 17 with 10 minutes to go, but let in two late tries. They dominated
    the lineouts. They were also on top in teh scrums until the Boks
    changed one of there props, then the Boks looked superior.
    
    The Blacks backline showed that the Boks dont tackle too well. The high
    altitude saw kicks going over 60 metres. Nass Botha the boks' skipper
    and five eight had an off day kicking. He also stands a mile away from
    any action (doesnt like it very physical).
    
    Wallabies play them next weekend. Hoping for a win for the World
    Champs.
    
    Madge
8.2504Where is he when this has so much potential?CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeTue Aug 18 1992 13:0719
    I thought I heard that at a rugby tournament, held somewhere, involving
    South Africa (1st time International competition in what 12 years?) and
    New Zealand there was a problem.
    
    Apparently the African National Congress didn't want the S.A. national
    anthem played at the match becasue of it's (alleged?) segregationalist
    theme.  It was reported that if the anthem was played the SA team would
    leave.  Tournament officials said "OK, no problem, we won't"
    
    Tournament officials spoke with forked tongue, played the anthem.
    
    Nelson Mandella went ballistic.
    
    Didn't hear if the SA team left or stayed.
    
    I remain,
    mourning Doc's departure  :*(
    Kev
    
8.2505PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 18 1992 13:307
8.2506PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Aug 18 1992 13:367
8.2507CAMONE::WAYCrucial TauntTue Aug 18 1992 15:2915
Seems like there are a lot of backs that just kick the ball and watch 8^)

It's great to have the Springboks back in competition, but I agree there
are still problems to be solved.  

From what I've heard, the pitches in South Africa are the best in the
world....

And at least this time, the All-Blacks who played didn't get suspended
for doing so.


Good luck to the Wallabies...

'Saw
8.2508USARFU CIPP (Club & Individual Participation Program)PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Aug 21 1992 18:1122
    USARFU is introducing a new dues policy for 1993.  Under this policy,
    each US Club is required to pay $10/year to USARFU.  Each player is
    also required to pay yearly dues with the amount dependent on age of
    player with an $11 max. for those over 24.  Dues paid to local and
    territorial Unions remain essentially unchanged.
    
    In the past, clubs paid dues to the local union, who in turned paid
    dues to the territory, who forwarded $50/club to USARFU.  The reason
    for the change is to provide more revenue to the USARFU.  Steinlager's
    new ownership chose not to renew the sponsorship agreement and Land's
    End is scaling back on their rugby merchandise promotions (so
    basically, USARFU is broke).
    
    According to the new policy, USARFU cannot use the money raised through
    dues for select side programs (i.e. the Eagles).  The money is to be
    used to run the national office and provide developmental programs for
    Youth, College, and Senior rugby.  This includes coaching and referee
    clinics and certification, and national championships.  Each club will
    be provided with a directory listing names, addresses, and phone
    numbers of all member clubs.  Each individual will get a semi-annual
    newsletter.
    
8.2509Undisputed ChampionsSNOFS2::THURGARSun Aug 23 1992 23:5749
    Wallabies  26
    Springboks 3
    
    Wallabies UNDISPUTED World Champions.
    
    Well those arrogant, opinionated South Africans have been put in there
    place. No longer can they say "How great they are". We all know how
    good they are. They are good but not great like the All Blacks and the
    current Wallabies. In fact I think that England would beat them (it
    would be a very close match). So they may be the 3rd or 4th best team.
    But not World Champions. The Wallabies have proved their class only
    losing one game since the start ofthe World Cup and that was a very
    demotivated display against the All Blacks in the third test when they
    were up 2-0 anyway.
    
    The scoreline against teh boks is a bit misleading, the game was closer
    but the Wallabies always had it in hand. The goal kicking was terrible.
    Michael Lynagh kicked 4-8 and Naas Botha kicked about 1-7 (this guy is
    overrated - I dont care what they say about him being a legend, there
    must be a better five eight in South Africa).
    
    Aust scored first with a penalty goal 3-0, SA answered 3-3. Close to
    half time a blind side movement from Farr Jones (playing in his last
    test) to Lynagh (maybe also in his last test) who gave a lovely pass to
    Carozza who scored in the corner 8-3.
    
    The second half Aust continued to dominate the lineouts, and the scrums
    were pretty even. The backrow was quick to the breakdown and plenty of
    ball was coming Aust way. Tim Horan was having a sensational game.
    Midway through the second half he sliced through from inside his own
    half, kicked ahead, put it on the toe, tackled Van Rensburg (the SA
    fullback) who had picked the ball up, stole the ball, passed it to
    David Campese (maybe in his last test) who scored his 50th test try.
    
    Later on Paul Carozza went up the blind side  from about half way,
    kicked ahead, regathered to score his second try.
    
    It was a great win.
    The Boks will only get better and will be a force to be reckoned with
    in the 1995 World Cup as long as there are no upheavals in there
    country. There seemed to be none of the problems in this test that
    marred the test with the All Blacks (the crowd behaved themselves).
    
    A great rivalry is resumed.
    
    
    BUT we are the champions.
    
    Madge
8.2510CAMONE::WAYCrucial TauntMon Aug 24 1992 12:499
Madge,

Could it be they are just rusty from lack of International competition???? ;^)


Congrats on the victory.....


'Saw
8.2511NERFU Coaching ClinicPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Aug 24 1992 13:5424
8.2512SNOFS2::THURGARThu Sep 03 1992 03:104
    Has rugby died in the USA
    Or are you people just bored
    
    Madge
8.2513FSOA::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Thu Sep 03 1992 13:0212
    No, it hasn't died.  In this part of the country anyway, summer rugby
    seems to be rather informal, being mostly "tens" and "sevens".  Since
    most of our rugby fans are in this part of the country, rugby talk
    seems to die over the summer.
    
    The clubs open up their play this weekend so I imagine we'll be having
    a regular Worcester recap, a regular Beantown recap and a semi-regular
    Hartford recap depending on how many games 'Saw goes to.
    
    Finally, with A&W gone, one other major source of rugby talk has ended.
    
    John
8.2514SOLANA::MAY_BRI need a bambulanceThu Sep 03 1992 16:291
    I thought we were just being spared.  8^)
8.2515CAMONE::WAYFeed My FrankensteinThu Sep 03 1992 17:4812
>    I thought we were just being spared.  8^)


Nah, most people but the regulars next unseen this note anyway.....


Hartford starts their league season this weekend I believe, or next
weekend, forget which....


'Saw

8.2516PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Sep 08 1992 17:5113
    League season in New England starts on Saturday, September 12.  The
    college league season starts on September 19.
    
    Worcester played in a social tournament this past weekend down in
    Newport, RI.  It was designed as a fun weekend to get the kinks worked
    out and have a look at the new laws before heading into the league
    season.  From what I hear (I wasn't able to go), 8 teams showed up. 
    Pairings were drawn out of a hat and each team got 1 game.  Worcester
    ended up paired against the Connecticut Yankees.  About 20-25 Worcester
    players made the trip.  Worcester led at the half by a score of 24-3,
    substituted heavily at halftime and ended up losing 25-24.  It was a
    good opportunity to get the rookies into a game and give the selectors
    a look at some players before the real season starts.
8.2517PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 14 1992 13:475
8.2518WRFC vs Newport RFC Match ReportPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 14 1992 14:1452
8.2519Updated WRFC SchedulePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 14 1992 14:2913
    Sept.  12	Newport RFC				Home
    	   19	Boston Irish Wolfhounds RFC		Framingham, MA
    	   26	Harvard Business School RFC
		Sudbury River RFC			Home
    Oct.    3	Old Gold RFC				Home
    	   10	Springfield Rifles RFC			Springfield, MA
           17	Portland RFC				Home
    	   24	Albany Knickerbockers RFC		Home
    	   31	Burlington RFC				Burlington, VT
    
    Home games are held at Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave. in
    Worcester, MA.  Matches kickoff at 1 pm.
    
8.2520PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 17 1992 15:134
    If anyone wants to make a get-together out of this Saturday's game
    between the Worcester RFC and the Boston Irish Wolfhounds RFC let me
    know.  I have directions to the field.  The matches will be played at
    the Marist House on Route 30 (Pleasant St.) in Framingham, MA.
8.2521First one in, last one outPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 17 1992 15:514
    Looks like I'm an endangered species in this file -- the only active
    rugger.  'Saw is out pumping iron and pounding the pavement looking for
    the endorphin high, and Rachael is off playing some wimpy sport where
    you can't pick up the ball...
8.2522CAMONE::WAYAnd monkies might fly outta my buttThu Sep 17 1992 16:0229
>    Looks like I'm an endangered species in this file -- the only active
>    rugger.  'Saw is out pumping iron and pounding the pavement looking for
>    the endorphin high, and Rachael is off playing some wimpy sport where
>    you can't pick up the ball...


I'm just on Sabattical!

I knew there was no way this body (as it was) was going to even make it
to the start of the season.  So I bit the bullet and am doing the
"Bo and the Big Bad Hip" thing.

So far so good.  

In the gym, I've been beating myself up (no pain no gain) and I can really
feel the pump these days.  I wouldn't go so far as Arnold, who said
in 'Pumping Iron' that being pumped was like coming, but it certainly
does feel good....

Been pounding the pavement regularly.  Last night's run felt like the
wind....

Finally, the weight situation is finally moving in the right direction.

If I can get down to 220, be mostly muscle, and maybe be a bit more
mobile, I'll be in a good spot to play loosehead OR hooker...


'Saw
8.2523just like the Dodo bird! ;*)CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Sep 17 1992 16:251
    
8.2524shoulda been a snail darter - 'dey wuz SAVED!CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Sep 17 1992 16:261
    
8.2525(8^)*PFSVAX::JACOBIf I only had a bulldozer!!Thu Sep 17 1992 16:465
    Re the dodo bird comment, Hey Kev, but which one was smarter????
    
    JaKe
    
    
8.2526simple.....CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Sep 17 1992 19:3813
    simple 'nuff JaKe,
    
    Which one didn't subject itself to mindless bruises and bodily injury
    for no productive reason??????
    
    Yer a smart main, I ain't gonna give ya the answer,
    
    I remain,
    a nice *smart* guy!
    
    Kev
    ;^]
    
8.2527CAMONE::WAYAnd monkies might fly outta my buttThu Sep 17 1992 19:5210
>    Which one didn't subject itself to mindless bruises and bodily injury
>    for no productive reason??????
    
Hey.  I'll be back there next spring.

The only padding that a rugger has is his muscle.  And I just wanna make
sure i've got a little more than what i have now....8^)


'Saw
8.2528CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Sep 17 1992 20:0615
    stay outa this 'saw,
    
    we're talking DoDo's.......
    
    Oh, what's that????   
    
    Oh.
    
    Never mind, 'saw,   you can stay....
    
    
    
    grins,
    Kev
    
8.2529PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Sep 17 1992 20:307
>    Which one didn't subject itself to mindless bruises and bodily injury
>    for no productive reason??????
    
    But which one's daid?
    
    At least I didn't spend my athletic years merely running around in
    circles...
8.2530CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeThu Sep 17 1992 21:018
    either did I - 5.4 50; 10.1 100; 22.7 180LH, x-c, and a few ovals!
    
    (if that reply was directed towards me!)
    
    I guess I'm overly sensitive,
    NOT!
    Kev
    
8.2531PFSVAX::JACOBIntro to Employee Interest Noting 101Fri Sep 18 1992 12:066
    My athletic years have been spent lifting weights.
    
    12 ounces at a time!!!!
    
    JaKe
    
8.2532Worcester @ WolfhoundsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 21 1992 14:3721
    On Saturday Worcester travelled to Framingham to take on the Boston
    Irish Wolfhounds.  This is the Wolfhounds first season in the league. 
    They lost their opener the previous week to the Albany Knickerbockers
    by a score of 28-25.
    
    The Wolfhounds used good tactical kicking to keep Worcester penned down
    in their own end of the field for most of the first half.  If it wasn't
    for poor goal kicking on the part of the Wolfhounds, this match could
    have been over in the first half.  Even still Worcester was in a deep
    hole by halftime.  Worcester started coming around in the second half,
    but it was too late as the Wolfhounds' backline continued a good day
    with the boot and was able to clear the ball on many occasions where
    Worcester was poised to put some points on the board.  The final score
    ended up being something like 25-11.
    
    Worcester Bs dominated in the second match, particularly in the
    forwards, and romped to a 35-7 win.  No C match this week.
    
    Next week Worcester takes on Harvard Business School RFC and Sudbury
    River RFC in a non-league match at home.  HBS will play our A & B
    sides, and Sudbury River will take on our Cs.
8.2533CAMONE::WAYAnd monkies might fly outta my buttMon Sep 21 1992 15:004
Any word on how that paralyzed guy from the 'hounds is doing?


'Saw
8.2534WPI rugbyPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 21 1992 15:0613
    My lads at WPI opened their league schedule with a home game against
    Tufts on Saturday.  They emerged with an 11-0 victory in their
    Collegiate Division II debut (they were in Division III last year). 
    The B side was also victorious.
    
    On Sunday the team took on the Alumni, looking to end their 8 year
    losing streak.  Turnout for the Alumni side was pretty dissapointing
    with only 8 alums showing up.  The undergrads loaned the alums a few
    players and an 11-a-side match was played.  I ended up refereeing (I
    didn't mind too much since I was feeling a bit beat up from playing on
    Saturday).  The match was played with 4 ten minute periods.  The alumni
    were leading by a score of 14-10 going into the final period, but the
    undergrads pulled it out with 2 late tries and won 22-10.
8.2535CAMONE::WAYAnd monkies might fly outta my buttMon Sep 21 1992 15:1013
>    The alumni
>    were leading by a score of 14-10 going into the final period, but the
>    undergrads pulled it out with 2 late tries and won 22-10.

Only a guy from WPI could add like this.

If the Alumni were leading 14-10, and the undegrads scored 2 late tries,
it would either be 24-14 or 20-14.   



8^)

8.2536PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 21 1992 16:0912
    'Saw, Punter seems to be doing OK.  He was at the match in his
    wheelchair.
    
    As for my reporting of the score, lessee:
    
    The undergrads had 10 points
                      + 5 for try #1
                      + 2 for conversion
                      + 5 for try #2
                      + 0 for missing the conversion
                    ---------
    That comes out to  22
8.2537CAMONE::WAYAnd monkies might fly outta my buttMon Sep 21 1992 16:1716
>    The undergrads had 10 points
>                      + 5 for try #1
>                      + 2 for conversion
>                      + 5 for try #2
>                      + 0 for missing the conversion
>                    ---------
>    That comes out to  22


Okay.  But you reported the final score as 22-10.  It was 22-14  8^)


I do freely admit that I didn't think up that permutation....


'Saw
8.2538PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 21 1992 16:251
    You're right.  Final was 22-14.
8.2539SNOFS2::THURGARWed Sep 23 1992 01:386
    A regular contributor to this notesfile is having a birthday within the
    next week.
    
    I'll give you a hint - he used to have 30% body fat.
    
    Madge
8.2540CAMONE::WAYAnd monkies might fly outta my buttWed Sep 23 1992 12:5618
>    I'll give you a hint - he used to have 30% body fat.
>    
>    Madge

I didn't know Mac was that bad 8^)



In some Rugby News from the Chainsaw, lasted weekend, Central Connecticut
State University (Chainsaw's Alma Mater) completely and utterly
ANNIHILATED their ARCH RIVALS Southern Connecticut State University.

I work out with a fellow who plays for Central, and when I heard
the news, it made my night....


'Saw

8.2541Worcester host Harvard Business SchoolPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Sep 28 1992 17:0524
    Worcester hosted Harvard Business School RFC this past Saturday in a
    "friendly".  The match was played in a steady drizzle which coupled
    with the scrappy play of HBS kept the match closer than it could have
    been.  Worcester was in control for most of the match but still showed
    problems inside the red zone.  Worcester came out victorious by a score
    of 25-7.
    
    The B-side match was scrappy even before the teams took the field.  HBS
    didn't have a full B-side.  Sudbury River RFC who was scheduled to play
    Worcester's Cs showed up with only 4 or 5 players so they filled in for
    HBS and the C match was scrapped.  This meant that some of Worcester's
    Cs played for HBS Bs, some split the game with players on Worcester's
    B-side, and others didn't get a match at all (but they hadn't been at
    practice so they noone to blame but themselves).  One of Worcester's
    A-side players, who has been on hiatus for over a year and is not that
    familiar with the new rules, was pressed into service as a ref.  The
    result was a very scrappy game with a bit of a lackluster performance
    by the Worcester Bs.  All of the scoring was done by Worcester in the
    first half and they held on to win 14-0.
    
    Worcester As are now 2-1 and the Bs are 3-0.  Next match is at home
    next Saturday against Old Gold RFC.
    
    On the college scene, WPI tied UNH.  WPI is now 2-0-1.
8.2542Important datesSNOFS2::THURGARMon Sep 28 1992 21:386
    Today is the 29th of September, a very important day in the US Rugby
    world.
    
    Does anybody know why ?
    
    Madge
8.2543SNOFS2::THURGARMon Sep 28 1992 21:397
    RE: 8.2542
    
    Answer 'Saws birthday.
    
    Happy Birthday big fella
    
    Madge
8.2544Hawk loved the tapeFRETZ::HEISERtragically coolMon Sep 28 1992 22:441
    I thought it was the day everyone taped their ears back.
8.2545CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicThu Oct 01 1992 19:0213
Got a call last night.

Seems they need a tight five guy to help out the C side in the upcoming
matches.

Guess I'm playing again.....


I think this hole in my ear probably won't close up if the stud comes
out for about 70 minutes....


'Saw
8.2546couldn't resistMKFSA::LONGI miss Billy the Kid...Thu Oct 01 1992 19:0513
>>I think this hole in my ear probably won't close up if the stud comes
>>out for about 70 minutes....


>>'Saw


	No telling how much brain cells will leak out, though, but
	then again.   ;^)


	bill
8.2547PFSVAX::JACOBWhere the Hell am I??Thu Oct 01 1992 19:0724
    
>>>>I think this hole in my ear probably won't close up if the stud comes
>>>>out for about 70 minutes....


>>>>'Saw


>>	No telling how much brain cells will leak out, though, but
>>	then again.   ;^)


>>	bill
    
    bill,
    
    there gotta be brain cells there in the firsted place in order fer them
    to leak out.  'Sawmain has killed most of his cells wif alchohol, so he
    ain't gots any worries.
    
    (8^)*
    
    JaKe
    
8.2548PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 01 1992 19:161
    I guess you'll hafta play wing now...
8.2549SCHOOL::RIEURead his lips...Know new taxesThu Oct 01 1992 19:171
       I thought that;'s what the tape was for!
8.2550CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicThu Oct 01 1992 19:3518
>       I thought that;'s what the tape was for!

No.  I think there's a rule, no jewelry allowed.  The only time I 
saw any jewelry was when this guy couldn't get his wedding band off,
so the ref made him tape it up, and inspected it.

The stud will have to come up, but it shouldn't be a problem for the 
length of the game....


I'm psyched....

'Saw


Mac, could you really see me on the wing?  why, I'd have to grow me some
long hair to style.....

8.2551PFSVAX::JACOBWhere the Hell am I??Thu Oct 01 1992 19:3712
    
>>The stud will have to come up,
    
    Is this something playing with a bunch of sweatty smelly dirty guys
    always does to you, 'Saw????????
    
    Is this team REALLY desperate, axing you and all????
    
    Many (8^)*'s
    
    JaKe
    
8.2552CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicThu Oct 01 1992 20:2421
|>>The stud will have to come up,
|    
|    Is this something playing with a bunch of sweatty smelly dirty guys
|    always does to you, 'Saw????????
|    
|    Is this team REALLY desperate, axing you and all????
    
OUT.

Too many time slices going, plus a headache fit for a king...

Actually, they've had some problems getting players this season and
in field three sides.  I guess some of the A side guys were
playing three games!

They know I can prop, hook or lock depending on need (although the lock
part is a bit rusty), and if it means one of the A side guys doesn't
have to play I don't mind helping out.


We'll see if the Chainsaw's mobility has improved.....
8.2553Just Wait One Garl Darn Minute Here!!!!!!!!!!CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeeFri Oct 02 1992 00:1755
    
    AWWRIGHT!!!!! Enough of this transformation of Francis Way's 
    metaphysical transformation from the Hebron girly-mon, pierced ear
    bucket o' lard, classical book reading, whacko musical listening wimp
    into MOMBO BOFFO KILLIN MACHINE **RECRUITED HIRED GUN** KILLER RUGBY
    RINGER!!!!!@#$%^&*()  stuff.
    
    ('scuse me while I barf a bit.....
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    OK , that's done (sniffffff)
    
    So MEEESTER MOUNTAIN MAIN MARINE (almost) 'TERBAKKY CHAWIN' GUY, I gots
    ta ask.....
    
    <set mode JUROR>
    
    ''scuse me......
    
    
    
    
    
    'scuse me, ah mister chainsaw sir......
    
    
    
    
    
    ah, um , w'al, uh,
    
    
    
    where and when ya playin?      EYE mean, that MtFD posts HIS schedule
    so
    even if'n we don't go, we had the pleasure of knowing we've stood him
    up that day!  ;^)
    
    Y'aint gonna deny us the same opportunity 'r ya?
    
    
    
    pleezze tail us where y'er and when the games iz.
    
    
    I remain,
    feeling relieved to let that go!
    Kev
8.2554CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicFri Oct 02 1992 01:4716
I'm not 100% positive.

I know that HWRFC is awy this Saturday and next in the Boston area,
probably playing Chalres River and Boston.  (They are currently 2-1,
losing to a much improved Beacon Hill team last week).

On the 17th they are home, probably against Providence, then home
against Mystic River, then home against one other team -- I don't know
who but it is non-league...

So I'm playing on the 17th against whoever, at home....and then the rest o' the
sesaon....



'Saw
8.2555PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 02 1992 12:0810
8.2556CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicFri Oct 02 1992 12:0914
8.2557PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 02 1992 12:176
8.2558CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicFri Oct 02 1992 13:0027
8.2559Whatsa time slice?PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Oct 02 1992 14:161
    Oh, software technoweenie speak.  No wonder I didn't understand it.
8.2560WRFC hosts Old GoldPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 05 1992 13:1342
    Worcester hosted longtime rival Old Gold RFC this past Saturday.  It
    was a beautiful, sunny, breezy day at Quinsigamond State Park, although
    a bit warmer than expected.
    
    Worcester flat out dominated in the first half of the A match (except
    for the scrummaging where our rookie tighthead was having a tough day). 
    Almost the entire first half was played in Old Gold's end of the pitch. 
    Old Gold came out hard in the second half, though, and started cutting
    into Worcester's lead.  Worcester was able to add a couple of penalty
    kicks to keep Old Gold at bay and held on to win 24-14 (or something
    like that).
    
    The B match was the usual physical match between these two clubs.  Old
    Gold did end up having to substitute a few A players in as some of
    their players didn't make the trip.  Again, Worcester controlled the
    match in the first half, but Old Gold came out tough in the second
    half.  Worcester Bs hung on to win by 7 points (17-10?).
    
    Worcester Cs took the field against WPI in the third match of the day. 
    An Old Gold player or two along with a couple of Sudbury River players
    filled out the C side for Worcester.  It was a decent closely contested
    match throughout with WPI emerging victorious on the strength of their
    youth, fitness, cohesion, (and coaching? ;^}) by the score of 10-3 (the
    paper reported 5-3, but I'm pretty sure Tech scored 2 tries).
    
    The Worcester Shamrocks played Beantown earlier in the day and had an
    extremely tough time against the national powerhouse losing 76-0.  The
    Shamrocks took it in stride as a learning experience and consoled
    themselves with the fact they didn't let Beantown crack the century
    mark like Merrimack did earlier this season.  Either Rachael has
    definitely gone to soccer full time, or didn't stick around to say
    hello as I didn't see her on Saturday.
    
    Worcester is now 3-1 (2-1 in league play) on the season.  The B-side is
    4-0 and the Cs are 0-2.  Next match is against the Springfield Rifles
    next Saturday in Springfield.
    
    From what I've heard around the league (this is incomplete), Albany is
    4-0, Springfield is 0-3, Old Gold is 1-3, Boston Irish Wolfhounds are
    2-1, the Boston Irish are on the verge of folding (forfeited a home
    game to Albany this weekend), Newport is 1-1, Portland is 1-1 (losing a
    close match to ALbany), and Burlington is 2-1.
8.2561Worcester @ SpringfieldPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 12 1992 13:2833
    Worcester travelled out to Springfield, MA to take on the Springfield
    Rifles RFC.  After a rainy morning, the skies cleared and the
    temperature rose to make a beautiful day for a match.
    
    The first half was a bit back and forth with both teams looking
    sluggish.  Worcester scored the only points of the half when the wing
    picked off an errant Rifle pass to set up a try.  The onversion was
    good and Worcester took a 7-0 lead into halftime.  A few minutes into
    the second half, Springfield closed the gap with a penalty kick and a
    few minutes later took the lead on a converted try (10-7).  The Rifles
    added a second try after good pressure in Worcester's end of the field. 
    The conversion was missed.  Worcester was able to work the ball into
    Springfield's end and closed the gap to 15-12 on an unconverted try
    with just a few minutes left in the match.  That's the way the score
    stood at the end as Springfield recorded their first victory of the
    fall.
    
    The B side helped dull the blow of the A side loss as they rolled over
    the Rifle's Bs by a score of 36-0.  I played lock for the first time in
    quite awhile in this match.  The Bs showed much more heart and desire
    than their A side counterparts.
    
    In the C side match, I was drafted to play prop and was even given the
    captaincy.  Fortunately it was for only one 30-minute period. 
    Springfield's C side was made up of Springfield A & B players as well
    as several of Worcester's A & B players.  The majority of Worcester's
    Cs were fresh players.  "Springfield" ended up winning going away 24-0
    as they capitalized on the inexperience of Worcester.
    
    Next week Worcester will host a Portland team which is rumored to be
    much improved.  With Worcester dropping to a 2-2 league record, it's
    starting to look like the remainder of Worcester's season will be
    played for pride instead of hardware.
8.2562DEC to stop sponsorship in IrelandPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Oct 13 1992 15:3513
8.2563CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicTue Oct 13 1992 16:297
They shouldna wasted the money on those stupid commercials last
year, that EVERYBODY was laughing at....

I'll be we still sponsor that Egghaid show McNeil-Lehrer.....


'Saw
8.2564WMOIS::COOK_TShow us your 2 inch verticalTue Oct 13 1992 17:399
    re .2562
    
    Isn't the node ESSB a small software house?  Do you think its the
    same..
    
    Naa..
    
    Conan
    
8.2565OURGNG::RIGGENThe worst 4-2 team in the NFLTue Oct 13 1992 19:073
ESSB

European Software Supply Bussiness
8.2566New England Division II UpdatePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 14 1992 13:1225
    Well from what I can piece together from talking with folks around the
    league, the New England Division II standings look something like this.
    
    Albany Knickerbockers
    Boston Irish Wolfhounds
    Portland
    Worcester
    Burlington
    Old Gold
    Newport
    Springfield
    Boston Irish
    
    Albany is still undefeated the last I heard.  The Wolfhounds and
    Portland each have a loss a piece.  Worcester and Burlington each have
    two losses.  Springfield and Old Gold each have 3 losses.  Newport has
    either 2 or 3 losses (I haven't heard much about them), and I'm
    assuming that the Irish haven't won a game yet.
    
    If a second place finish in New England is still good enough for a
    wildcard slot in the Northeast regionals, Worcester still has a shot at
    post season play.  We play Portland at home this week and Albany at
    home the next and close the season out in Burlington.  Portland and the
    Wolfhounds haven't played each other yet and Albany still has to play
    Burlington.
8.2567CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicWed Oct 14 1992 13:3221
>    Albany is still undefeated the last I heard.  The Wolfhounds and
>    Portland each have a loss a piece.  Worcester and Burlington each have
>    two losses.  Springfield and Old Gold each have 3 losses.  Newport has
>    either 2 or 3 losses (I haven't heard much about them), and I'm
>    assuming that the Irish haven't won a game yet.
    
They might well stay that way.

Joe Burke plays with them, and while he *is* Mr. Attitude sometimes, he's
still an Eagle.  Chances are he's with the team now, as I haven't heard
of anything big going on with the national team.

Cahal is playing for them also.  I don't think he's good enough to be
an Eagle, but he has had final four experience, and there is something
to be said for that.

Finally, Albany, in my mind, is really a division I caliber club.  I don't
know why they went into division II....


'Saw
8.2568MSBCS::BRYDIEAccidentally like a martyrWed Oct 14 1992 13:362
    
     Since when is Albany in New England ?
8.2569FSBIC::JHENDRYJohn Hendry, DTN 297-2623Wed Oct 14 1992 13:396
    Probably because Albany is closer to more of the teams in the New
    England Union than they are to the teams in whatever New York State
    Union they'd play in.
    
    John
    
8.2570CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicWed Oct 14 1992 13:4020
>     Since when is Albany in New England ?


They used to be in the Upstate NY League, and were the perennial
representatives of that league in the Northeast Tournament.

Last year, NERFU (New England Rugby Football Union) allowed their petition
to play in our league.   I'm not sure why that is.  I think it might
be because they felt that the caliber of competition up there was not
as high as the New England Leauge could offer.

So they joined.  I fully expected them to join Division I, but they 
joined Division II.... don't axe me why......


My guess is that the team in the Northeast Tournament this season
from the Upstate league will be Buffalo.....


'Saw
8.2571PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 14 1992 13:5714
8.2572PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Oct 14 1992 13:599
8.2573CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicWed Oct 14 1992 14:0724
>    The went into Division II to prove on the field that they belong in
>    Division I.  If they win Division II, they will be promoted to Division
>    I and the last place team in Division I will be relegated to Division
>    II.  There were some politics involved, but the decision overall made
>    sense.  There are some good Division II clubs that deserved a shot at
>    Division I just as much as Albany and noone wanted to tick them off. 
 
Okay.  I hadn't heard of that before.

>   Also, after Amoskeag successfully defended their right to stay in
>    Division I, it didn't seem right to relegate them to the second
>    division just because Albany came on board.  

They are a good club, and work very hard.  I admire their work ethic
quite a bit.  Plus, they have the HUGE locks that are a BITCH to scrum
against...


>That would have been the
>    only option since heaven forbid we unbalance the first Division.  It's
>    much better to do that to the second division.

Amen.  I couldn't agree with you more!  ;^)

8.2574NERFU League Results to datePATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 15 1992 17:4766
    Here are the results that have been reported to the NERFU secretary as
    of yesterday.  Not all match results have been reported.
    
    Division I
    
    Sep. 12:  Mystic River 9  Beacon Hill 5, Providence 33  Amoskeag 8
    Sep. 19:  Mystic River 61 Charles River 3, Boston 49 New Haven 32,
    	       Beacon Hill 11 Providence 5
    Sep. 26:  Mystic River 71 New Haven 6, Beacon Hill 29 Hartford 10
    Oct.  3:  Mystic River 19 Amoskeag 13, Beacon Hill 32 Boston 18,
    	       Hartford 24 Charles River 9, Providence 28 New Haven 20
    
    Mystic River	4-0
    Beacon Hill		4-0
    Providence		2-1
    Boston		1-1
    Hartford		1-1
    Charles River	0-2
    New Haven		0-3
    Amoskeag		0-2
    
    Division II
    
    Sep. 12:  Burlington 53 Springfield 0, Worcester 29 Newport 10, Old
    	      Gold 31 Boston Irish 0, Albany 28 Boston Irish Wolfhounds 25
    Sep. 19:  Burlington 72 Boston Irish 0, Boston Irish Wolfhounds 24
    	      Worcester 11, Albany 33 Portland 20, Newport defeated
    	      Springfield
    Sep. 26:  Boston Irish Wolfhounds 20 Burlington 16, Portland 23 Old
    	      Gold 15, Albany 36 Springfield 7
    Oct.  3:  Portland 5 Burlington 3, Worcester 24 Old Gold 14, Boston
    	      Irish Wolfhounds 39 Newport 15, Albany 5 Boston Irish 0
    	      (forfeit)
    Oct. 10:  Springfield 15 Worcester 12, Portland defeated Boston Irish
    
    Albany Knickerbockers	4-0
    Portland			3-1
    Boston Irish Wolfhounds	3-1
    Worcester			2-2
    Burlington			2-2
    Old Gold			1-2
    Newport			1-2
    Springfield			1-3
    Boston Irish		0-4
    
    Note:  Because of the uneven number of teams in Division II, Portland
    will not play the Wolfhounds.
    
    Women
    
    Sep. 19:  Beantown 106 Merrimac 0, Boston 80 Portland 0, Hartford 71
    	      Worcester 7
    Sep. 26:  Beantown 5 Portland 0, Boston 19 Hartford 0
    Oct.  3:  Beantown 76 Worcester 0, Boston 63 Merrimac 5, Hartford 25
    	      Portland 0
    
    Beantown	3-0
    Boston	3-0
    Hartford	2-1
    Merrimac	0-2
    Worcester	0-2
    Portland	0-3
    
    Professional School
    
    Sep. 12:  Albany Law 5 Yale 0 (forfeit)
8.2575CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicThu Oct 15 1992 18:0736
>    Sep. 12:  Mystic River 9  Beacon Hill 5, Providence 33  Amoskeag 8

	Hartford beat New Haven this week, I don't have the score.


>    Sep. 19:  Mystic River 61 Charles River 3, Boston 49 New Haven 32,
>    	       Beacon Hill 11 Providence 5

	Hartford beat Amoskeag this week, I don't have the score



>    Sep. 26:  Mystic River 71 New Haven 6, Beacon Hill 29 Hartford 10
>    Oct.  3:  Mystic River 19 Amoskeag 13, Beacon Hill 32 Boston 18,
>    	       Hartford 24 Charles River 9, Providence 28 New Haven 20
>    
>    Mystic River	4-0
>    Beacon Hill	4-0
>    Providence		2-1
>    Boston		1-1
>    Hartford		1-1

	Hartford	3-1

>    Charles River	0-2
>    New Haven		0-3
>    Amoskeag		0-2
    

Also, if Mystic beat Beacon Hill 9-5 on 9/12, then Beacon is something and
1, not 4 and 0.



'Saw

8.2576PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Oct 15 1992 18:2217
    Oops, you're right.  Beacon Hill should be 3-1.  It's tough sorting out
    all those 1 vs 5, 2 vs 8, etc.
    
    If Hartford wants to make the playoffs this year, they'll need help
    since they've already lost to Beacon Hill.  I don't think it will
    happen.  Hartford still has to play the Mystics, Boston (which was
    played last week), and Providence while Beacon Hill has Amoskeag (last
    week), New Haven, and Charles River.
    
    Worcester needs some serious help to make the playoffs as well.  We
    play Portland, Albany, and Burlington in the next three weeks. 
    Portland plays us, Newport, and Springfield.  The Wolfhounds played Old
    Gold last week, then Springfield, a bye, and Boston Irish.  Albany
    played Newport last week, and have Burlington, Worcester, and Old Gold
    left.  It could get real interesting if Albany loses to Worcester and
    Burlington.  If Springfield can build on their win over us last week,
    they could have a say in the playoff picture as a spoiler.
8.2577CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicThu Oct 15 1992 18:3224
>    If Hartford wants to make the playoffs this year, they'll need help
>    since they've already lost to Beacon Hill.  I don't think it will
>    happen.  Hartford still has to play the Mystics, Boston (which was
>    played last week), and Providence while Beacon Hill has Amoskeag (last
>    week), New Haven, and Charles River.


They won't do it, I'm afraid.   They have been decimated by injuries
on the A side.
    
Plus, I hate to admit this, and I can't say for sure not having seen them
play this season, but lately Hartford had become far too dependent on
Glen's foot, letting him get them out of trouble, and quite often opting
for the 3 instead of working really hard to get the try.


Now Glen is gone, and the style will have to change.


Hartford is in transition, and I think it might be a couple of seasons
before they return to top form.


'saw
8.2578SNOFS2::THURGARSun Oct 18 1992 21:474
    South Africa 20 beat France 15.
    No details.
    
    Madge
8.2579CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicMon Oct 19 1992 11:5479
Well, the Chainsaw returned to the active roster this weekend.

Mystic River was in Hartford to play a league match.  Mystic, the second
best team in the nation, came into Hartford 5-0.  Hartford, at 4-1, 
needed a win to stay in the playoff hunt.

I cannot believe the number of injuries that Hartford has sustained.
(Mac, you'll appreciate it if I tell you that Wrabel is playing B side
hooker).

The A side game was pretty boring, actually, in terms of any real
action.   Late in the game the score was tied 6-6.   A late breakaway
try, with conversion, preserved Mystic's perfect record, with a 13-6
victory.  Hartford was eliminated from playoff contention.

Hartford played really well, their forwards producing a lot of good
ball, unfortunately, the backs didn't do anything with it.

Hartford actually could have pulled to within two very late in the game.
A break down the left wing had an overload.  Howie pulled the defender
in, but his pass out was just slightly ahead of our winger's fingertips......


I have no idea who won the B side game.


I was asked to play prop in the C side game.  I started out in the
warmups at tighthead, which is the position I'm a little more comfortable.
The other prop, a guy named Sean, had only propped once before.  About
halfway through the warm up, he asked me if I could switch to loosehead,
because he felt more comfortable on the tighthead side.  I said sure.


I was just a little tentative when things started out.  I was afraid
my skills would be rusty.  I actually had a lot to do, because on 
our lineouts, our loosehead prop is responsible for stripping the ball
from the last two jumpers, so I had a great potential for handling
the ball.

Mystic had a good side.  Their tighthead prop (my opposite number in
the scrums) was not built like a tighthead, but he was strong.  As for
me, I realized immediately that the deadlifting I've been doing in the
gym was key to my scrummaging ability.


I made a couple of good tackle early in the game, and late in the
first half had the longest run of my career.   Not being highly mobile,
I arrived late to a ruck, just as the ball was coming out the Mystic
side.  I followed one of our centers into the backfield as he plowed
the Mystic flyhalf.  The ball dropped on the ground, and the Chainsaw
picked it up in full stride, which was about 2 Mister Potato Heads.

I ran about 15 yards with the ball, and I had open field in front
of me, with about 10 yards to the try zone.   I felt the first grab
from behind, and had thoughts of carrying the guy to the zone, but
out of the corner of my right eye I could see their fullback coming
to the rescue.   

Giving up any thought of scoring, I did what all good forwards are supposed
to do.  I turned and posted the ball.  On the ensuing play we were awarded
a penalty, and we made the kick.


In the first half we took a big lead.  The forwards were producing great
ball, and our backs WERE doing something with it.  There is nothing 
a forward likes more than to come out of a ruck and see the back who
has the ball turn the corner, cut in the afterburners, and touch it
down in the zone.   We saw that at least three times in the first half.

In the second, our fitness because an issue, coupled with the stepped up
play of Mytic.  They actually went ahead late in the game.   Scrummages
were still pretty even, although they were really barging a lot.

In the end, we had pulled back to within two points when no-side was
called.


All in all, not a bad day back on the pitch,
'Saw
8.2580Worcester vs. PortlandPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 19 1992 13:3035
    Portland game into Worcester looking to get back into the Northeast
    playoffs after a 4 or 5 year hiatus.  Worcester neeed a win to keep
    their playoff hopes alive.  It was a sunny, crisp, cool autumn New
    England day with a blustery wind.
    
    Worcester had the wind behind them in the first half but was only able
    to capitalize on it for a 13-8 halftime lead.  The second half was a
    see-saw battle with Portland eventually pulling away with a 29-19
    victory.
    
    Worcester's Bs then took the field looking to extend their unbeaten
    streak.  Portland only brought along a few extras, so their A side
    filled in for alot of positions and the game was shortened to 30 minute
    halves and Portland was allowed to substitute at halftime.  Portland
    drew first blood with a converted try about midway through the first
    half.  Worcester answered back with an unconverted try with some nice
    ball movement by the back line.  The score stood at 7-5 Portland at the
    half.  That's the way the score remained for a good portion of the
    second half as neither side could penetrate the opponent's defense. 
    With about 5 minutes left in the match, Portland was awarded a penalty
    deep in Worcester's zone which they used to extend their lead to 10-5. 
    Worcester then went on a furious attack started by a beautiful kick
    from their standoff to the opposing fullback behind the Portland 22
    meter line.  Worcester players swarmed the fullback, tied up the ball
    and were awarded a scrum.  Worcester won the hook and the ensuing
    second and third phase ball.  Portland, however, broke up a pass
    between the centers and were able to clear the ball.  Moments later
    fullside was blown and the Worcester Bs were looking at their first
    defeat of the season.
    
    Unfortunately, the C-side match did not take place as no opponent could
    be found.
    
    Earlier in the day, the Worcester Shamrocks (the women's club) earned
    their first league victory by defeating Portland Women.
8.2581CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicMon Oct 19 1992 14:1125
I had the biggest "insult" of my life on Saturday.

On the way into the bar, I let out this big sigh, and said "I'm getting
too old for this shit".   A couple of the guys I was with laughed, and
said "Yeah, when you hit 27, 28 you really start to feel it, eh?"

I looked at them and said "I'm 34 guys...."  Well, we all laughed and stuff.

So, we're having a couple of beers later and it turns out some of the guys
were from CCSU (my alma mater), so we got talking about the place.
It seems that they have taken the anatomically correct Blue Devil (our
masco) out of the main floor of the student center, and place it upstair,
after "modifying" the statue a bit by removing its "package".   Downstairs
they replace it with this abstract sculpture....

The guys asked why I was asking about the Blue Devil and I said that I  had
graduated from there a while ago.   One of the guys says "Oh, did you go there
when it was still State Teachers College?"   (That was like YEARS AND YEARS
ago).


Man, what a shot!


'Saw
8.2582International ResultsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 19 1992 14:5334
From the VNS:


        International Matches
        England 26, Canada 13              

        At Wembley, England ran in four tries to Canadas' one as the
        home side triumphed 26-13. The scoreline flattered the English who were 
        not on form. New cap Ian Hunter scrored two tries with Guscott and
        Winterbottom. Webb missed all the conversions, but scored two penalties.
        The Canada outside-half Garath Rees scored two penalties their first
        ever try against England came from scrum half John Graf 13' before
        time which Rees converted..                     

        France 15, South Africa 20

                 South Africa's first international in Europe for 18 years ended
        in victory as they beat France 20-15 in Lyon. Two tries either side of
        half-time gave the tourist their historic win. South Africa dominated 
        the first part of the match with Botha outstanding at fly-half to lead 
        13-0 - a drop and a penalty from Botha and a goal from Gerber - at 
        half-time. In the second period, the French came back with two tries
        from Penaud. Poor goal kicking from Sebastian Viars who converted one 
        try but missed four other goalable kicks. The sides meet again next 
        week in Paris.

        Tour Match:
        Leinster 11, Australian XV 38
                Australia started their tour of Ireland and Wales with a win.
        Trailing 8-6 at half-time, the Australians took control of the second
        half, running in five tries with two each from Campese and Lynagh. 

        Representitive match
        London Division 26, Ulster 15                
8.2583CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicMon Oct 19 1992 16:2213
So okay, we get to the huddle just before the game starts on Saturday.
We put our hands in, and our captain says "Anyone have anything to say?"

One of the locks says "Yeah.  Let's have a big Home Improvement Grunt".

With the exception of one guy who didn't know what Home Improvement is,
14 guys, stood there and went "arggghh-uh-uh-ugh".....  It was great.....


THEN we did our Wanderers thing....


'Saw
8.2584CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicMon Oct 26 1992 12:3451
Hartford took on Providence in a basically meaningless game on Saturday
at Colt Park in Hartford.


The day started out partly sunny but by the end of the day deteriorated
into a steady rain.


Hartford gave up two quick trys to Providence, going down 14-0 inside
the first ten minutes.  Hartford did get an opportunity around the
10 minute mark, and Howie Rosenberg booted the penalty through the
uprights from around 40 yards out to make it 14-3.

The game was hard fought, and throughout the first half, Hartford
chipped away at the Providence lead on the strength of Howie's kicking.

In the second half, Providence converted two penalty kicks, and very
late in the game, had a 20-15 lead.   Time was running out for the
Wanderers, and though they were moving the ball and were deep in the
Providence zone, they couldn't put it into the try zone.

With about three minutes (minus injury time) left, Al Dekin took a second
phase ball and booted it long.  Benny, a new guy from my Alma Mater, 
streaked down the sideline for it.   

The Providence fullback was running full out for the ball but it bounced
in front of him.  As he grabbed the ball above his head, Benny was right
there.  Instead of tackling him, he tipped the ball up, grabbed it, and
ran the last 20 yards into the Providence end zone unmolested, touching the
ball down behind the right post.

Howie converted, and Hartford had their first lead, 22-20.   

Providence came back with a vengeance, but only managed to attempt one
drop goal, and the game soon ended with Hartford on top.


Hartford finished their season at 5-2, out of the playoffs behind
Mystic River and Beacon Hill.


The B side won a lot to a little.


There was no C side game, because Providence brought so few guys that
when their B side started to get injured they were playing their A side
guys again.   Both teams mutually agreed to can the C game and go
drink -- a decision that was fine with me.....


'Saw
8.2585Worcester vs. AlbanyPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 26 1992 19:5244
    The Albany Knickerbockers came into Worcester this Saturday looking to
    extend their unbeaten streak.  Worcester was looking to gain back some
    self-respect, play spoiler, and prevent Albany from clinching the
    Division II championship on their home turf.
    
    The weather wasn't too much of a factor during the first match.  The
    skies were cloudy and there was occasional drizzle.  The wind was
    fairly calm.  Worcester did tend to play a bit tentatively in the first
    half, perhaps intimidated by Albany's unbeaten streak.  The game was
    pretty much nip and tuck throughout with each team matching the other's
    scoring.  Albany finally was able to put the match away with about 10
    minutes remaining and held on to a 24-13 win and clinched the NERFU
    Division II championship.
    
    In the B game the skies openend up and the match was played under a
    constant rain.  The Worcester forwards played well, but Albany was able
    to capitalize on a relatively inexperienced Worcester backline. 
    Playing the match, I thought it was a close game and was quite
    surprised to learn that the final score was 22-7 in Albany's favor.
    
    Unlike in the Providence/Hartford match, C side match was held in
    Worcester.  Albany had about a half dozen extra players while Worcester
    had an extra 8 or 9.  Each team filled in with their A and B side
    playes.  I reffed the match because I felt it would be better to do
    that than stand around on the sidelines getting soaked or being forced
    to play another match.  Much to my (and all of the A&B players filling
    in) surprise the captains opted to play 2 30-minute halves.  This game
    wasn't even close.  I ended up putting a stop to it around 25 minutes
    into the second half with the score Albany 47, Worcester 0.
    
    The Shamrocks lost to Boston Women earlier in the day making it a sad
    day in Worcester all around.  Worcester As are now 2-4 in league play,
    3-4 overall with the last match of the season coming up next Saturday
    in Burlington, VT.  The Shamrocks finished 1-4 in league play with
    their sole victory coming at the expense of Portland the previous week. 
    They have 3 more matches coming up in the next 2 weeks.
    
    WPI was crushed by Trinity this past weekend and had lost to Brandeis
    the week prior.  I suppose that is to be expected when players miss two
    weeks of  practice to study for finals and go on break.  Unfortunately
    that meant that they will not have an opportunity to play for the New
    England Div. II College championship.  So my coaching is over for the
    season and my playing will be over for the season next Saturday.  Then
    it will be time to heal up and keep fit over the winter.
8.2586CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicMon Oct 26 1992 20:1915
>    WPI was crushed by Trinity this past weekend and had lost to Brandeis


Trinity is a really good squad.  We scrimmaged with them a year ago,
putting on a clinic for them.   Good bunch of kids....


Too bad Mac, about Albany....


Guess for you and me we're talking Next Year.....8^)


'Saw

8.2587PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Oct 26 1992 20:223
8.2588CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicMon Oct 26 1992 20:2619
>    I'll be there.  Will you?


Yes.


I found that the lifting I have done has been a big help.  The running
too, but I have to concentrate more on that.

I hate practice, though.  I truly hate it....


If I can get over hating practice, it should be a fun spring.....


8^)


'SAw
8.2589Betcha Woostah wimps out (again) ~/~CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeeTue Oct 27 1992 12:341
    
8.2590PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Oct 27 1992 13:005
    Beat that equine corpse, Kev.
    
    'Saw, I don't particularly care for practice either, but going to
    practice is the only way to do something that I really like to do --
    play.
8.2591CAMONE::WAYWe're the dance band on the TitanicTue Oct 27 1992 13:0612
>    'Saw, I don't particularly care for practice either, but going to
>    practice is the only way to do something that I really like to do --
>    play.


Yes, you are right.   I'll be there.  You wants to play, you gots to pay.


Lots of deadlifts this winter should help, too....


'Saw
8.2592Worcester @ Burlington, VTPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 02 1992 14:3628
    Worcester finished up the Fall '92 season with a roadtrip to
    Burlington, VT.  Both teams were looking to salvage a disapointing
    season.  Burlington and Worcester were tied for first place after the
    Fall '91 season.  This season, both were looking at a no better than
    4th place finish.
    
    The weather was overcast and cold.  Pretty good for rugby.  Worcester
    started off flat and it took a few hard hits from Burlington players,
    and a couple of tries to wake up the men in black.  From then on out it
    was a furiously contested match, with neither team able to penetrate
    the try zone.  The score at the half stood at 10-0 in favor of
    Burlington.  Burlington added a hard fought try in the second half to
    extend their lead to 15-0.  Worcester almost spoiled the shutout with a
    furious rush near the end of the match, but the Burlington defense held
    strong as time expired.
    
    In the B match, Burlington was a bit surprised seeing 14 of the 15
    Worcester players fresh for the match.  Not many teams travel all the
    way up there with close to 2 full squads.  I ended up reffing the
    second match after having played lock in the first.  This was another
    good, hard-fought match.  This time Worcester prevailed, however, by a
    score of 15-7.
    
    The A side finished with a 2-5 record in the league, 3-5 overall.  The
    B side went 6-2.  The Cs were 0-4.  Overall, a dissapointing season for
    the A side.  Some of the highlights of the season were the continued
    strong play of the B side, the reformation of a C side, and a strong
    recruiting class with some blue chippers.
8.2593CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicMon Nov 02 1992 14:5733
>    The weather was overcast and cold.  Pretty good for rugby.  Worcester
>    started off flat and it took a few hard hits from Burlington players,
>    and a couple of tries to wake up the men in black.  From then on out it
>    was a furiously contested match, with neither team able to penetrate
>    the try zone.  


Sounds like a date I had once!  8^)



>    The A side finished with a 2-5 record in the league, 3-5 overall.  The
>    B side went 6-2.  The Cs were 0-4.  Overall, a dissapointing season for
>    the A side.  Some of the highlights of the season were the continued
>    strong play of the B side, the reformation of a C side, and a strong
>    recruiting class with some blue chippers.


Sounds like your selectors have their heads up their collective bum.





Harfaa did not play this week.  A fixture had been scheduled with
a touring Potomac side, but for some reason it was cancelled.


Harfaa's nexted game is a week from this coming Saturday against 
Life College, one of the premier teams in the nation.....


'Saw
8.2594CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicMon Nov 02 1992 18:598
My brother is getting married next October, and I'm the Best Man.


DAMN KID IS GETTING MARRIED DURING RUGBY SEASON!



'Saw
8.2595Lets play can you top thisACESMK::FRANCUSMets in '93Mon Nov 02 1992 19:106
    stop bitchin 'Saw. My brother got married in Israel smack in the middle
    of the Gulf War. Actually we flew over during the war; it ended a day
    or so before his wedding.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
8.2596QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesMon Nov 02 1992 19:183
    I bet that was an interesting flight !!!
    
    BG
8.2597kicker is ...ACESMK::FRANCUSMets in '93Mon Nov 02 1992 19:337
    Actually it was a very routine flight, except the baggage check part
    in the US with an airline that didn;t have automatic scanners at Logan
    (British Airways). Had to take El Al from Europe to Israel, no one else
    was flying.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
8.2598Man, I woulda been REAL noivousCTHQ1::LEARYJackie Sherrill won't STEER ya wrong.Tue Nov 03 1992 12:258
    Don't tell me TCM. 
    The wedding was in Tel Aviv?? 
    
    Hope you was wearin' yo' Depends in case you heard a whooshing
    noise from above!!  8^)
    
    MikeL
    
8.2599lots to do with Rugby :-)ACESMK::FRANCUSMets in '93Tue Nov 03 1992 12:3112
    Wedding was in Rehovot, just south of Tel Aviv. We spent the weekend
    near Jerusalem. As I said the wedding was the Sunday after the war
    ended. If the war was still going on the wedding would have been during
    the day rather than at night. Sunday night was the first day since the
    war had begun that weddings were done at night. Well you know how you
    get an X% of people that cannot make it to any given wedding, with X
    being a double digit number? Well at this wedding X was a low
    single digit. The caterer needed to set up extra tables. An interesting
    experience. If I recall it was also a heck of a party.
    
    The Crazy Met
    
8.2600CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 03 1992 12:5319
You guys don't get it.

Only Rachael or Mac would get it.


My brother is getting MARRIED during rugby season......


Mac, explain it to them.  Explain to them what I will endure for the
rest of my entire rugby playing career.  Explain to them the abuse
I will take, the stigma I will be carrying.  Explaing to them the
scarlet "W" I will be forced to wear on my practice jersies.....


My brother is getting married DURING rugby season.



'Saw
8.2601ACESMK::FRANCUSMets in '93Tue Nov 03 1992 13:059
    Boo hoo! 'Sawmain haven't 'ya figured out that you're going to get
    zero, zip, nada sympathy from this crowd? and that would be even if we
    understood whatever it is that only Mac and Rachael "get".
    
    And 'Saw always struck me as an intelligent moderator, the
    disappointments just keep cascading today :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    
8.2602CUPMK::DEVLINJe voudrais boire quelque chose.Tue Nov 03 1992 13:125
Saw,

I got married during Rugby Season !

JD (Who is celebrating his 2nd wedding anniversary today!)
8.2603MSBCS::BRYDIEAccidentally like a martyrTue Nov 03 1992 13:146
    
  >> My brother is getting married next October, and I'm the Best Man.

  >> DAMN KID IS GETTING MARRIED DURING RUGBY SEASON!
    
     Maybe your teammates put him up to it.
8.2604We've finally found something!!SCHOOL::RIEUSay Goodbye George!Tue Nov 03 1992 13:142
       So does this mean that marriage ISN'T "a lot like rugby"?
                                     Denny
8.2605CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 03 1992 13:4818
I'm not asking for sympathy, I'm just blowing off steam.....


As to the teammates, nope.  No rugger would ever suggest to another's
sibling that they get married during the season.   That's like suggesting
to a rugger that he not release the ball after he is tackled....


No, he did it, and I'm stuck with it.  It's October, so it will probably
be one of the more important games of the League Season that I miss.
Well, with luck, it'll be an away game I miss -- if there's to be any 
good here, not having to drive might be it....


sigh,
'Saw


8.2606NERFU NewsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Nov 06 1992 17:2332
    New England Rugby Football Union results:
    
    Division I
    
    Mystic River finished in first place.  They automatically advance to
    the Northeast Regionals to be held on Nov. 21.  Beacon Hill finished in
    second place and play a wildcard game tomorrow against Schenectady in
    Schenectady to determine who will go on to the Regionals.  Charles
    River finished in last place and will most likely be relegated to
    Division II next fall.
    
    Division II
    
    Albany Knickerbockers finished in first place and will advance to the
    Northeast Regionals.  Boston Irish Wolfhounds and Albany tied for
    second place, but the Wolfhounds get the wildcard spot on the
    tiebreaker.  They will travel to Buffalo tomorrow to take on Lockport
    with the winner going on to the Regionals.
    
    The Boston Irish are going to merge with the Boston Irish Wolfhounds
    next season bringing the second division back to 8 teams.  Albany
    Knickerbockers will undoubtably elect to move into the first division
    which will relegate Charles River to Division II.
    
    The Div. III New England College Championship is taking place tomorrow
    in Worcester, MA.  The games will be played at Phil O'Connell Field on
    Grove St. and Quinsigamond State Park on Lake Ave. starting at 9 am. 
    The final is scheduled to kick off at Quinsig. at 2:00 pm.
    
    Competing in the tournament are:  Wentworth, Rhode Island College,
    Connecticut College, Keene State, Mass. Maritime, Bentley,
    St.Michael's, and Western New England College Law School.
8.2607CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicFri Nov 06 1992 17:5315
>    Division I
>    
>    Mystic River finished in first place.  They automatically advance to
>    the Northeast Regionals to be held on Nov. 21.  Beacon Hill finished in
>    second place and play a wildcard game tomorrow against Schenectady in
>    Schenectady to determine who will go on to the Regionals.  Charles
>    River finished in last place and will most likely be relegated to
>    Division II next fall.
    
Do you have the full standings?

I'm assuming Hartford finished 3rd, at 5-2.....


'Saw
8.2608PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Nov 06 1992 18:312
    Sorry, 'Saw, that's all I was able to get for now.  I'll probably have
    the full standings next Thursday after the NERFU board meeting.
8.2609ACESMK::FRANCUSMets in '93Sat Nov 07 1992 21:234
    'Saw you'll get the final list at your brothers wedding :-)
    
    The Crazy Met
    
8.2610SNOFS2::THURGARMon Nov 09 1992 03:137
    'Saw,
    
    I dont doubt your intelligence, but ya gotta dumb brother.
    
    Anybody heard from the big head Rachael lately.
    
    Madge
8.2611You guys may have lost one from the ranks (rugby ranks that is)CTHQ1::MCCULLOUGHMelanie's formula - $70/caseMon Nov 09 1992 12:468
8.2612NERFU College RoundupPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollMon Nov 09 1992 13:1919
    In Division I College, Dartmouth squeaked by Harvard 6-5 to capture the
    New England Championship.  Harvard had a chance to win on a penalty
    kick with no time left, but missed the attempt.  UConn defeated UMass
    to take third place in New England.  The top two finishers go on to the
    ERU playoffs.  I think the third place team does as well.
    
    In Division II College, Coast Guard defeated Brandeis for the
    Championship.  
    
    In Division III College action, St. Michael's defeated Wentworth in
    overtime 10-7.  Wentworth scored with less than 5 minutes left in the
    match but St. Mike's scored with no time left in regulation to force
    the OT.  St. Mike's took the OT kickoff deep into Wentworth's territory
    with some nifty ball handling and good aggressive forward play. 
    Wentworth was penalized for killing a ball in a ruck, and the St.Mike's
    kicker slotted it through for the victory.
    
    There are no ERU playoffs for Division II or III, although a Div.II
    championship has been slated for 1993.
8.2613CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 12:3519
>I spotted ol' Rach in my building late this summer.  She reported that she was 
>playing soccer, and made no indication if she was going to switch back to rugby
>this fall, althohg her team was assuming she was.

I think Rach got a little bit burned out.

She was playing 15s spring and fall, and then playing 7s all summer.

I've heard a lot of flankers that I play with really complain about being
burned out when they do that.  (Funny, I've never heard the backs complain.
Probably cause in 15s they're just window dressing)....

So few tight five players play serious 7s that they don't have the problem...

So I think soccer was a change of pace for her, and she needed the time off....



'Saw
8.2614SOLANA::MAY_BRInside IntelTue Nov 10 1992 14:163
    besides, soccer is a good game FOR WIMMENS!
    
    BOSS
8.2615Soccer: Sport of the 80's....haSALEM::DODADon'tWorryBill,NoDraftInaTradeWar...Tue Nov 10 1992 14:180
8.2616QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesTue Nov 10 1992 14:346
     Brews...  Thems fighting words girly mon !!!
    
     Rugby is for the brain dead...  
    
    BG (Sorry `Saw)
    
8.2617SOLANA::MAY_BRInside IntelTue Nov 10 1992 14:476
    
    While that may be true, bg, at least it's a game for the mainly brain
    dead.
    
    Brews, wondering how long we will be able to keep this stuff up in the
    mod's favorite topic.
8.2618CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 15:0655
Actually, you cain't be brain dead to play rugby.

One of the most difficult things I found when I started was concentrating
on all the mental stuff in addition to the fitness demands.

Late in the game, when your body is DEAD tired (especially if you're
a forward) if you're not careful your concentration begins to wander.

To the uninitiated, the action on the field looks like chaos, but there
are game plans just like in football.   For example, once the ball
comes out of the scrum/ruck/maul, your scrum half and backs have to
keep in mind what the opponents are susceptible to.

For example, in certain parts of the field, it may be to your advantage
for the scrum half NOT to spin the ball out to the backs but to
keep it and go "weak" alone (go to the weak side of the scrum/ruck/maul).

With other teams, you might know that your backs are better, so all
afternoon you try to spin it all the way out to the wings (forwards 
inherently dislike that style -- we call it "east-west" rugby -- side
to side instead of up and down the field).

Yet other teams might be susceptible to your inside and outside
centers "crashing" -- bringing the ball back into the middle of things
instead of continuing the pass out to the wings.


Those are mostly back strategies.  Forwards have to know what's going
on in what are called the set pieces -- scrums, lineouts, penalty plays.

Aside for the physical exertion of just plain vanilla scrummaging, 
there are defensive wheels, which are indicated by one of the props
calling some sort of signal.   Another defensive scrummaging tactic
is the 8 man push, where the hooker attempt to steal the other team's
put in, but rather will push along with the other seven guys.
On our team, the hooker makes that call, and it's usually "88".

Offensively on a scrum there are a million back row plays, where even
the front row players (usually the last to untangle from a scrum)
are involved.

Lineouts are another area where late in the game concentration is important.
Knowing the lineout calls, the special plays, take a lot of mental effort.
For me, when I play loosehead prop, and knowing I have to strip the ball
from two of the three jumpers, can take a lot of concentration to remember
that late in the game.



Nope, it ain't for the brain dead.   The only dumb ruggers are the ones
too stupid to keep from bad-mouthing the referee.....


'Saw

8.2619SCHOOL::RIEUSay Goodbye George!Tue Nov 10 1992 15:422
       Rugby is a lot like rocket science, or brain-surgery!
                                Denny
8.2620CSTEAM::FARLEYHail to Bill Long and TcMTue Nov 10 1992 15:473
    
    No Denny....
    
8.2621PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 10 1992 15:515
8.2622 ~/~ ;^)CSTEAM::FARLEYHail to Bill Long and TcMTue Nov 10 1992 15:5215
    
    So what *I* wanna know MtM is 
    
    
    
    
    
    What are you doing there?
    
    grins!
    
    I remain,
    your worste nightmare!
    Kev
    
8.2623Who'd a thunk it ?MSBCS::BRYDIEAccidentally like a martyrTue Nov 10 1992 15:586
    
  >> The WRFC does have 3 doctors (2 emergency room, 1 pediatrician), 1 med
  >> student (who is also a PhD microbiologist), and 3 physicists on the
  >> roster.
    
     Gee, you don't mean rugby is a yuppie sport ? 
8.2624;^)QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesTue Nov 10 1992 16:103
    Boy...  I got outa that one alot easier than I thought I would.
    
    BG
8.2625CUPMK::DEVLINRead our Lips: Get a New Job! ;-)Tue Nov 10 1992 16:196
All Mac's note shows is that Rugby is a preppie, yuppy, ivy league type
sport.  Of that there is no denying.   It's one of them sports shown
in Docker commercials and the like.  The players have gone to them preppy
schools and all.  

JD
8.2626CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 16:2945
Some Wanderers professions:


	Software Engineer (me)
	Teacher (Biology)
	Registered Physical Therapist
	Mechanical Engineer
        Chemical Engineer
	Northeast Utilities Lineman
	Plumber
	Sales (a few of the guys)
	Machinist
	Electrician (several)
	Connecticut State Trooper
	Insurance Company Exec
	Accountant
	Architect
        Heating and A/C guy
	Factory worker....
        Lawyers (several)
 	Construction business owner


We have a pretty good mix.  In fact, that is a big help when we go to
put on things like the Scotland-USA game last year.  People who have
law enforcement experience, for example, are great at know the ins and
outs of security.


The physical therapist is great to have, and the Biology teacher was
also a football trainer for years, so if you need to be taped, splinted,
or whatever, we don't have to go too far.	



I wouldn't call rugby a yuppie sport.  In fact, in the States it's not played
at the prep school/high school level that much.  More college actually.


In England however, it started at Rugby school.  (Mac, I'm wearing
my School House home jersey today, but I like the away jersey better).


'Saw

8.2627CUPMK::DEVLINRead our Lips: Get a New Job! ;-)Tue Nov 10 1992 16:315
Saw -

ALmost every rugby player I ever met attended Prep school.

JD
8.2628MCIS2::DHAMELThing of beauty and a boy foreverTue Nov 10 1992 16:3413
    
    Compare to Soccer players:
    
    Hairdresser
    Interior Decorator
    Fashion Model
    Wine Taster
    Cake Decorator
    Seamstress
    Florist
    Ice Cream Salesman
    Patriot's Quarterback
    
8.2629PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 10 1992 16:359
8.2630CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 16:3734
>ALmost every rugby player I ever met attended Prep school.

I'd be surprised if they started in prep school.  I'm sure Mac has the
stats, but at the high school level in this country rugby is by far the
exception.

Most players start in college, and come from several backgrounds:


		1. Football players
		2. Wrestlers
		3. British/Aussie/Kiwi guys going to college in the
		   States.


Group 1 have a lot to UNLEARN.  Even as someone who only played football
at the Pee-Wee Level, I had an ingrained reflex to HOLD ONTO THE BALL
when tackled.  In rugby, you have to release.  The first time you get
tackled in a game, most everyone I know gets called -- I did.

Group 2 is pretty cool -- they have strength, and an ability to do what
a lot of us try to do on tackles -- get the guy turned to face your
own team, to hopefully strip the ball.

Group 3 needs no explaining -- the dudes can ALWAYS kick.  



Actually, at the prep schools around here the big sport has always been
Lacrosse, and in some places, Crew.  But I can only speak for what I
know of CT.....


'Saw
8.2631MCIS2::DHAMELThing of beauty and a boy foreverTue Nov 10 1992 16:3813
    
    Compare to hockey players:
    
    Janitor
    Sanitation Engineer
    Unemployed
    Truck Driver
    Unemployed
    Custodian
    Short-Order Cook
    Amway Salesman
    Unemployed
    
8.2632CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 16:3811
>    Britain and got its US start in the Ivy League colleges.
    
The guy who started the Wanderers was from Dartmouth, which is a very
big reason why Green is our primary color.

The black was added because "it was a manly color"  and "because black
shorts are easier to keep clean than white ones"



'saw
8.2633ROYALT::ASHEWhoa Black Betty, bam-a-lamTue Nov 10 1992 16:4613
    Compare to Soccer players:
    
    Hairdresser   - For Grace Jones
    Interior Decorator - For Mike Tyson?
    Fashion Model - For Madonna
    Wine Taster - Bartles or James?
    Ice Cream Salesman - Ben or Jerry
    Patriot's Quarterback - then Rugby players would be what?  Pat's
                            Offensive lineman? (oops, he's coming...)
    
    

    
8.2634PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 10 1992 16:547
    Well, JD, you met me and 'Saw and neither of us went to Prep school.  I
    can't think of anyone that I've played with that did go to Prep school. 
    Very few that I've played with started the sport before college.
    
    As far as colleges go, I've played with players from UTexas, UMass,
    UConn, Southwest Texas, Framingham State, Worcester State, Holy Cross,
    WPI...
8.2635PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 10 1992 16:576
8.2636What did you do to him?CSTEAM::FARLEYHail to Bill Long and TcMTue Nov 10 1992 17:088
    
    Did you say the end was defensive when he tried to kick off the top of
    yo' haid?
    
    I remain,
    hard o' hearing....
    Kev
    
8.2637CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 17:279
Don't forget Joe Burke, who played with the Cowboys and the Jets before
becoming a US Eagle....


The only player I know who went to what we would call prep school was
Glen Judge.  But that's just cause he's from England.....


'Saw
8.2638PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 10 1992 17:284
8.2639CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicTue Nov 10 1992 17:299
>    Did he actually play or just get a tryout?  What position did he play?

No, he played.  He was with the Jets and the Cowboys, a season each
I think.   Don't hold me to it but I think he was a running back.....

At least that's what he told me when I axed him....


'Saw
8.2640CTHQ1::LEARYJackie Sherrill won't STEER ya wrong.Tue Nov 10 1992 18:448
    Jeez Mac and 'Saw,
    After this string I was awaiting the definitive statement at the end
    of your notes.
    You know...... is a way of life"??
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    
8.2641EXQUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesTue Nov 10 1992 19:593
    RUGBY IS A LOT LIKE BEING A MEMBER OF THE GLEE CLUB !!
    
    BG
8.2642PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Nov 10 1992 20:101
    BG, allow me to put you in touch with some Colorado Springs ruggers. 
8.2643QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesTue Nov 10 1992 20:334
    No Problem, Mac...  I used to beat up on band members in 
    middle school all the time...
    
    BG
8.2644LAGUNA::MAY_BRInside IntelWed Nov 11 1992 13:435
    
    Running is for people without the coordination or smarts to play
    soccer.  And you know what kind of people play soccer...
    
    BOSS
8.2645CTHQ1::MCCULLOUGHMelanie's formula - $70/caseWed Nov 11 1992 18:1015
8.2646LAGUNA::MAY_BRInside IntelWed Nov 11 1992 18:178
    
    Now Bob, if'n I did, I'd be running, which I don't do.  Go ask one of
    those sissy soccer players to go runnin with you.  The only running I
    do is towards the fridge during commercials.  Howcum all you little
    short skinny guys get riled so easy?  Maybe if you played mainly
    sports, you would have your aggressions taken out already.
    
    BOSS
8.2647I'd drop after the first 3 or 4 I'm sure !!QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesWed Nov 11 1992 18:208
    =Bob=,
    
     Thats not manly,  Thats crazy !!!
    
    
    ;^)
    
    BG
8.2648CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicWed Nov 11 1992 18:2617
>How 'bout goin' out with me sometime and doing a dozen repeat quarter miles 
>at 75 seconds each, and a 22 recovery.  When we're done, you can tell me if 
>running is a mainly sport.

Pardon me while I hurl....

I mean I would, literally, if I tried this.

We had some pretty tough drills last spring for rugby fitness (suicides
with a guy on your back and all) but this sounds brutal.

First, I don't believe I could DO a 75 second quarter.  That's a five minute
mile pace, right?   I think I'd have a hard time with a 90 second quarter,
these days....


'Saw
8.2649CUPMK::DEVLINThe bill is due for the last 12 years...Wed Nov 11 1992 18:265
So Boss, what sports do you play anyway?  

Just wondering, (besides Volleyball, of course...)

JD
8.2650CUPMK::DEVLINThe bill is due for the last 12 years...Wed Nov 11 1992 18:289
Saw, 

That's a nothing workout.  Try 20 440's, or 36 220's, or 12 880's.   Those are
real workouts.   Of course, wif Bob, we'd do a warm up warm down to getin 10-12
miles fer da day.

In college days, we ran 100 mile weeks....

JD
8.2651maybe 100 miles a year I do now ;o)CSTEAM::FARLEYHail to Bill Long and TcMWed Nov 11 1992 18:3510
    JD, 
    
    just to put your 100 mile/week in perspective.....
    
    Sid does that in 24 hours (mo o' less)
    
    ;^)
    
    Kev
    
8.2652CUPMK::DEVLINThe bill is due for the last 12 years...Wed Nov 11 1992 18:396
Kev -

I have the utmost respect for Sid - don't know how anyone could run that far
all at once (or why)....

JD
8.2653LAGUNA::MAY_BRInside IntelWed Nov 11 1992 18:516
    jd, 
    
    see .2644
    
    GtBoH,
    Brews
8.2654CUPMK::DEVLINThe bill is due for the last 12 years...Wed Nov 11 1992 18:543
    
    Yeah, so what sports do you play.  
    
8.2655CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicWed Nov 11 1992 18:5576
>That's a nothing workout.  Try 20 440's, or 36 220's, or 12 880's.   Those are
>real workouts.   Of course, wif Bob, we'd do a warm up warm down to getin 10-12
>miles fer da day.

I know.

But what I need for rugby is a combination of things.

I've always likened my position to the following:

	Push a big boulder.
	Stop pushing, run flat out for a while.
	Tackle or get tackled.
	Get up.
	Run flat out for a while.
	Go push the boulder again.


I need the endurance for the running, but I also need the raw strength
for the scrummaging (pushing the boulder).


My first night of rugby practice we did 1920 of interval work and for
me that was a lot.


The two toughest things that I have encountered in rugby are:

	1. The repeated live scrummaging drills

		You scrum, you might walk the scrum a bit (tougher)
	 	and then you come up, run to a fresh patch of ground
		then scrum again.
	
		We have repeated this as much as forty times in a row.

	2. Scrum sled drills

		How bad these are depend on what you do.

		You load "meat" on the sled (ie all the guys not scrummaging)
		and the pack that's up scrums.  You always do at least
		three walks -- (basically a drive on the put-in, a walk
		which is usually 3-5 forward steps, a drop, which is basically
		a unison "cocking" to drive again, a walk, a drop, a walk).

		After that, you've got a head rush.  The kicker is that
		there is a lot more weight on the sled than what you'd
		actually scrum against live.

		The worst of these drills happened a week after we
		were beaten by Mystic River in my first season.   
		Mystic was getting to the mark before us, and thus
		were formed and ready to engage before we were.

		We spent 90 minutes on the sled doing the following:

			- a scrum with one walk.
			- on the call "ball's out" we'd sprint to
			  whereever the captain had tossed the ball on
			  the ground, and form a maul.

			- He'd then call "scrum to Hartford, at the mark"
			  and we'd run back to the sled, form, scrum,
			  one walk, and then ball's out again.



To be a forward, you've got to love to scrum.  To be the BEST of the forwards,
you have to love playing the front row.  

I have to admit that when I hear other forwards who have propped once or
twice say that I'm nuts for propping, I really do feel a bit of pride.


'Saw
8.2656which way to the looney bin...CNTROL::CHILDSBig Imagination, better than real lifeWed Nov 11 1992 18:593
that's our man Saw, taking pride in being NUTS!!!!

;^)
8.2657CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicWed Nov 11 1992 19:006
>that's our man Saw, taking pride in being NUTS!!!!
>
>;^)


8^)
8.26588^)CTHQ1::LEARYJackie Sherrill won't STEER ya wrong.Wed Nov 11 1992 19:1214
    'sawmain,
    You gonna kill yourself!! 
    
    And let me tell ya, I can't fathom the workout JD and Bobby describe.
    Man I run occasionally and I think a five miler is strenuous. And
    I ran wif Bobby onced and actually kept up with him. 'Course he was
    runnin' backwards.
    
    The BOSS only has one sport: playin' Twister with the tarantulas on
    Friday nights.  And Lord hep ya Brews if you ever ran into a 
    finely-toned soccer player. He'd have you cryin' for yo' mama.
    
    MikeL
    
8.2659PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Nov 11 1992 19:174
8.2660manly sports according to BOSS...DECWET::METZGERHail to Bill and tCmWed Nov 11 1992 19:2024
Sports played by Bruce May:

  Pillow fluffing....a strenuous game in which the contestant must simultaneously
                   reach behind the back and lean forward extracting the pillow
                   from behind the back. Then the pillow is fluffed using a dual
                   armed motion and replaced..

  10 yard biathalon.. the contestant must heave themselves from the couch and 
                  negotiate a trecherous course from the bathroom to the fridge
                  and back during 1 commercial break. Points are lost for 
                  leaving the toilet seat up, failing the retract your johnson
                  before zipping your trousers and shaking up the beer

  mini van extraction...the participant must back the manly mini van out of the
                  garage into the driveway so that it can get nice and warm for
                  the significant other. Points are lost for getting off the 
                  couch after the first request, running over bicycles, backing
                  through the garage door and failing to set the emergency break
                  allowing the manly van to roll down the street into the 
                  neighbors....


Metz
8.2661CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicWed Nov 11 1992 19:2656
>    'sawmain,
>    You gonna kill yourself!! 
    
Yabbut Mike, lemme set the stage for ya:

	Late in the game.  You're deep in your own zone, up by four
	points.  Your backs appear to be getting the ball moving
	out of your end, but one of the knocks on.

	The ref, who's been blind in one eye all afternoon, somehow
	doesn't miss the knockon.  He calls a scrum, awarding the
	put-in to the other team.

	You rush to the mark, bind on the hookers waistband, get
	your feet set.  You look the other prop square in the eyes
	with the coldest look you can give. 

	You scrum, hold your own, but this time THEIR fly-half knocks
	on as he gets that pass out from the scrum half.  Another
	scrum.

	Your body is tired, your neck is really sore, and even lifting
	your head is an effort.   You bind up again, and go up against
	their prop one more time.   Somewhere, you find the strength
	to hold him off, because you're still deep in your own zone.....


The scrum sled training has always, in my mind, been for THOSE occasions
more than any other.  The endurance, the strength when it's late in the
game.

There are other situations where it's even more intense, like if you're
awarded a five meter scrum late in the game.   Forwards, when they're awarded
a five meter scrum, react like lions being thrown raw meat.  You're five
METERS out of the try zone, it's YOUR put in (which means that chances
are 98% you'll retain possession of the ball).

Five meter scrums are the two packs going mano-a-mano, head to head,
when a score is on the line.


There are a lot of nuances I won't go into.  Mac has had far more experience
than I, but I can say that the live scrummaging practice helps you handle
the nuances.  For example, the tighthead who weighs 270 who's main scrum
technigue is to lay his weight on you the whole game, or the loosehead
who keeps his head so close to his hooker's head that every scrum engagment
becomes a head-butting contest.....


I know we always kid about it being a way of life, but one thing I can
say is that, from my point of view, there has never been a time in my
life where I could see exactly and entirely what I was made of, as
those little battles late in a match.....


'Saw
8.2662Ooops, wrong sportCTHQ1::LEARYJackie Sherrill won't STEER ya wrong.Wed Nov 11 1992 19:286
    
    I thought you was gonna tell me ya lined up for a fake punt!!
    
    8^),
    MikeL
    
8.2663CNTROL::CHILDSBig Imagination, better than real lifeWed Nov 11 1992 19:303
Howlin' Metz over "the loosing points for getting off the coach on the first
request"....
8.2664CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicWed Nov 11 1992 19:3264
8.2665QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesWed Nov 11 1992 19:596
    Re: .2655 and the other 2 by `Saw...
    
     So what the hell does all that mean when translated from Neanderthal
    into English...  ;^) ;^)
    
    
8.2666CUPMK::DEVLINThe bill is due for the last 12 years...Thu Nov 12 1992 11:353
Classic Metz, absolutely classic!

JD
8.2667What's a FARTLek???CNTROL::CHILDSBig Imagination, better than real lifeThu Nov 12 1992 11:500
8.2668CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicThu Nov 12 1992 11:5263
>     So what the hell does all that mean when translated from Neanderthal
>    into English...  ;^) ;^)

Get on out and learn the game, and you'll know 8^)


A knock-on is when the ball hits your hands, shoulders, chest, and goes
forward to the ground.  In rugby there is no forward passing, so the
ball cannot move foward unless kicked.


The scrummaging stuff:

	When you scrum, there are 8 men from each team on opposite
	sides of the ball trying to push the other pack back off it.
	(kind of a reverse tug of war effect).

	All you really need is about 6" to ensure that your hooker
	can take the put in.

	Obviously, your 8 men need to work as a unit.  There's a
	kind of cadence we use to build that synchronization.
	Just after we've bound, as we're about  to "engage" the other
	pack,  the hooker calls out "Grips, Synch, In", and we engage
	them.

	At that point, it's kind of like a stasis -- you're in contact	
	with the other pack, but you haven't started to push. You're
	like a coiled spring....

	When the ball comes in, the pack pushes as a unit.  The hooker
	actually signals the scrum half to put the ball in.  On the
	Wanderers, the hooker makes a hand-signal that the scrum half
	can see, the scrum half yells "Green", and puts the ball in.
	We  yell "now!" as we push.   


	"Walking" a scrum is just that -- if you are really dominating
	the other pack, you can walk them (ie push them backwards).
	The 8man (rear most guy in the scrum) has a cadence that he uses
	to keep things in synch.   He also will hold the ball "in the
	scrum" with his foot.  As long as the ball in in the scrum, 
	there are rules which govern what the other team can do.

	So, let's say that we're scrumming, and dominating the other
	team, and we decided to walk them.   The start of the scrum
	is the same, but as soon as the hooker strikes the ball,
	the 8man will start calling "Walk it, walk it, walk it, DROP, DRIVE".
	That means that we walk them (pushing them back), and on drop,	
	we coil again, and on drive we start walking them.

	Against Providence last fall, our packed walked their pack
	20 meters back almost into their try zone, when our scrum
	half got impatient and picked up the ball.  Otherwise we
	would have had a walk-over try.


Hope this helped Big Game.....


'Saw
    

8.2669CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicThu Nov 12 1992 12:0227
>                            -< What's a FARTLek??? >-

Fartlek is a training method for runners, developed in Sweden.
The word, in Swedish, means "Speed Play".  Instead of boring
interval work, speed work is incorporated into cross-country
style runs.

Perhaps it can be like an Indian run, where the last man in the pack
must sprint to the front on a signal, or just a combination of
jogging, sprinting, walking etc.


In our practices we have several variations.  The first is
we line up on the goal line, and the basic thing is a jog.  On
a double whistle, we sprint to where the captain is.  Sometimes
we sprint till a single whistle.

We also do Indian runs, but in packs.  There's about 5 meters
separating each pack, and on the double whistle, the rearmost
pack will sprint to the front of the line.   (I never last through
these things -- after about two sprints to the front, I'm just
jogging on the outside of the track.  But I don't feel bad, all the
rest of the props are too!)


'Saw

8.2670NERFU Teams still in National Championship HuntPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Nov 12 1992 12:2013
    In other NERFU news, Boston College once again defeated UConn to take
    the Women's Div.I College title.  Colby defeated Southern Connecticut
    to take the Women's Div.II College championship.  Beantown repeated as
    Women's Club Champs.  BC, UConn, and Beantown will go on to their
    respective Eastern Championships to be held next spring.  I think
    Boston Women also advance for finishing second in New England.  There
    is no College Women Div.II Eastern Championships.
    
    In the Northeast Region Wildcard games, New England teams pulled a
    clean sweep with Harvard defeating Fordham and UConn defeating Syracuse
    in Men's College Div.I, Beacon Hill defeated Schenectady in Men's Club
    Div.I, and the Boston Irish Wolfhounds defeated Lockport in Men's Club
    Div.II.
8.2671Rugby is a lot like a foreign languageQUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesThu Nov 12 1992 13:424
    
     Thanks `Saw...  I think ??
    
    BG
8.2672TORREY::MAY_BRInside IntelThu Nov 12 1992 14:059
>  And Lord hep ya Brews if you ever ran into a 
>         finely-toned soccer player. He'd have you cryin' for yo' mama.
    
>    MikeL
 
    I don't have to worry about that Mike.  I used to live in SF and know how
    to politely turn down their advances.  
       
    BOSS
8.2673Hotdamn! And this from a fascist mod!! 8^)CTHQ::LEARYJackie Sherrill won't STEER ya wrong.Thu Nov 12 1992 15:161
    
8.2674a girly-mon sport if there ever was oneFRETZ::HEISERI jam, therefore I amThu Nov 12 1992 17:584
>    Running is for people without the coordination or smarts to play
>    soccer.  And you know what kind of people play soccer...
    
    The same kind that play wolleyball.
8.2675fyiFRETZ::HEISERI jam, therefore I amThu Nov 12 1992 18:121
    I have first-hand knowledge that Brews plays volleyball with wimmin.
8.2676CNTROL::CHILDSBig Imagination, better than real lifeThu Nov 12 1992 19:300
8.2677CNTROL::CHILDSBig Imagination, better than real lifeThu Nov 12 1992 19:313
>>   I have first-hand knowledge that Brews plays volleyball with wimmin.

 Raise my opinion of him and the sport    ;^)
8.2678ACESMK::FRANCUSMets in '93Thu Nov 12 1992 20:007
    
    Yeah when I saw Brews out in SF a few weeks back he said he had to be
    sure to catch his flight because he was playing volleyball that night
    and some of the women on the team looked dynamite in shorts. And no he
    was not referring only to his wife!
    
    The Crazy Met
8.2679PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollThu Nov 12 1992 20:122
    Women play rugby, lacrosse, soccer, football (touch and full contact),
    hockey, basketball, etc.  You have a problem with that, Mike?
8.2680LAGUNA::MAY_BRInside IntelThu Nov 12 1992 20:155
    
    Hey Mike, if you had seen the wimmens on my team (which won the city
    league, btw), you'd want to learn real quick.  
    
    Brews   
8.2681LAGUNA::MAY_BRInside IntelThu Nov 12 1992 20:173
    re .2674
    
    or were you talking about walleyball?  fun game
8.2682Co-Ed Soccer, Softball, and Volley ball are for me !!QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesThu Nov 12 1992 20:187
    
     Personally,  I like to play Co-Ed sports...  Wimmins are much better
    sports than most mens...  let alone the obvious benefits !
    
    ;^)
    
    BG
8.2683CAMONE::WAYWe're the Dance Band on the TitanicThu Nov 12 1992 20:547
Hey, this is da rugby note.

If you wanna talk about wimmins playing sports, go to the wimmins sports
note!


'Saw
8.2684LAGUNA::MAY_BRInside IntelThu Nov 12 1992 20:585
    hail, you weren't whinin when we were talkin about soccer and runnin in
    here.  
    
    brews
    
8.2685PFSVAX::JACOBThe Set Hidden Patrol is Riding aginThu Nov 12 1992 21:369
    When I was in the Air Farce, we used to play touch football with the
    WAF squadron, we called it
    
    
    TWO HAND GRAB!!!!!!!
    
    
    JaKe
    
8.2686I mean MtM *plays* with youngsters, right? ;^)CSTEAM::FARLEYHail to Bill Long and TcMFri Nov 13 1992 00:533
    Yamean this *isn't* da wimmiins note??????
    
    
8.2687CUPMK::DEVLINThe bill is due for the last 12 years...Fri Nov 13 1992 11:517
Nice discussion of other sports, and the wonderful, fantastic, great game of
rugby.   Its nice to see three of our moderators in here giving insightful notes
on sports, and for folks to be always on the creative edge of noting.

Keep up the good work.

JD
8.2688Rugby is a Wimmins Sport !!QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesFri Nov 13 1992 14:224
    
     Are you sick dude....????
    
    BG
8.2689FRETZ::HEISERI jam, therefore I amFri Nov 13 1992 14:258
>    Women play rugby, lacrosse, soccer, football (touch and full contact),
>    hockey, basketball, etc.  You have a problem with that, Mike?
    
    Women also play baseball, softball, motocross, mud bogs, drag racing, 
    groupies, and facsist moderators.  Do you have a problem with that, Mac?
    
    It's a sad day when ya can't raz a friend for degrading soccer, even if
    I didn't care up until 4 weeks ago.
8.2690PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollFri Nov 13 1992 14:295
8.2691FRETZ::HEISERI jam, therefore I amFri Nov 13 1992 14:414
>    It's a sad day when you have to denigrate a group of people to razz a
>    friend.
    
    Sorry Mac, didn't know I was denigrating facsist mods.
8.2692does this make sense ??QUASER::HUNTERDenvers Line, Maddox, Dan ReevesFri Nov 13 1992 16:009
    
    AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRR    AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR	  AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR !!!
    
    
    Besides,  Soccer is one of the most manly sports...  Wimmins make
    great soccer players...  I have Wimmins on my Co-Ed team that are
    much better than most Mens I've seen !!
    
    BG
8.2693Life Chiropractic dominates HartfordCAMONE::WAYCheez-Whiz, Choice of ChampionsMon Nov 16 1992 13:1849
In their final game of the LONG fall season, the Hartford Wanderers
were soundly beaten by a touring Life Chiropractic College.

Life, one of the top teams in the USA, came into the game primed and
ready, on the first stop of their New England tour.  (They were scheduled
to play Providence on Sunday and I forget who else).

Life got out to an early 7-0 lead, and increased it to 10-0, before
Hartford got on the board late in the first half, for their only score
of the day.  Benny, one of the new guys from Central Ct State, intercepted
a Life pass and raced fifty yards to touch it down dead center between
the posts.

From that point on, it was all Life.


There was tremendous disparity in the game, evident from the outset.
Life was geared up for their tour, while Hartford, after finishing 3rd
in the New England League for the second year in a row, seemed to be
just finishing up the season.  Indeed, injuries were costly to the
team this season, and even the players on the pitch this past Saturday
were pretty beat up.  The contrast with Life was astounding.

Life has a massive pack, and it was noticeable from the start how mobile
they are.   The routine arrived at the rucks and mauls much quicker
than Hartford, and in the second half, scored two walkover tries, one
against the head.

I wasn't suprised to learn that one of Life's props is on the Eagle panel.


While Life did beat up on Hartford (who had to resort to using one of the
Old Boys at lock) it was still a good game to watch.


The final score was 30-something to 7.


The Wanderers were clearly glad the season was over, and there are a lot
of injuries that have to heal in the next couple of months, from broken
wrists, to shoulder separations to cuts and bruises.


The second game was a tens game, made up of a bunch of college players
who wanted to get a game.  It was run as a clinic.  By that point, the
wind had come up, the sun had gone behind the clouds, and I headed home.


'Saw
8.2694PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Nov 25 1992 15:089
    The Canadian Under 21 team has forfeited its match against the US
    Collegiate All Americans held earlier this year.  It seems that Canada
    fielded 2 players who were over 21 on that squad.  The match was
    originally won by Canada by a 1 try margin.  A teammate who played for
    the US said it really didn't matter.  As far as he's concerned they
    still lost, but he's proud of his and the team's effort.
    
    If anyone has a recent CompuAdd brochure.  Inside you'll see some of my
    former teammates from the Austin RFC.
8.2695USARE ResultsPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollTue Dec 08 1992 16:548
    Harvard captured the USA Rugby East title.  Their road to the Final
    Four included victories over defending champ Army, and Navy.
    
    The Albany Knickerbockers lost to Severn River in the USARE Men's
    Division II finals.  Albany was leading with about five minutes to go
    in the match, but couldn't hold on.
    
    I haven't heard who won the Men's Div. I USARE championship.
8.2696No respectPATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jan 06 1993 14:124
    A player from the Maryland Old Boys was invited to play with the US
    National 7s team in Sicily awhile back but was not allowed time off
    from work.  He recently won a spot on "American Gladiators" and was
    given the time off he needed to participate.
8.2697or vice-versaACESMK::FRANCUSCubs in 93Wed Jan 06 1993 14:275
    Life is a lot like rugby
    
    The Crazy Met for Hawk
    
    
8.2698CUPMK::DEVLINRAY IS GONE! RAY IS GONE! RAY IS GONE!.Wed Jan 06 1993 16:093
So, what's the problem?

JD
8.2699PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jan 06 1993 16:441
    What's what problem?
8.2700echoing electrons?CSTEAM::FARLEYMegabucks Winner WannabeeWed Jan 06 1993 16:541
    
8.2701CUPMK::DEVLINRAY IS GONE! RAY IS GONE! RAY IS GONE!.Wed Jan 06 1993 17:253
The Sicily/Gladiators thang, Mac.  What's the problem?

JD
8.2702PATE::MACNEALruck `n' rollWed Jan 06 1993 18:335
    Like I said in the title, No Respect.
    
    The guy was offered an opportunity to represent his country in athletic
    competition.  He wasn't allowed to take the time off.  He is offered an
    opportunity to himself on TV and can take all the time he needs.
8.2703CUPMK::DEVLINRAY IS GONE! RAY IS GONE! RAY IS GONE!.Wed Jan 06 1993 18:504
Agree wif ya Mac.   In a way, I was hoping it was a joke.  I mean,
c'mon, American Gladiators?    I can see if they didn't give time
off for either, but for that trash, and not the rugby thang, is
unreal.
8.2704CAMONE::WAYCheez-Whiz, Choice of ChampionsThu Jan 07 1993 12:154
That really does suck.....


American Gladiators?  Sheesh.