Conference yukon::christian

    The bible says to pick up our cross and follow Jesus.  Thats rather
    painful.  How can a God of love allow us to suffer this way?  How can a
    God of love allow His son to suffer this way?  
    
    
    Jill

1 Peter 2:21  
    For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
 leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
    
4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try
 you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
4:13  But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that,
 when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
4:14  If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit
 of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but
 on your part he is glorified.
4:15  But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an
 evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him
 glorify God on this behalf.
4:17  For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if
 it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel
 of God?
4:18  And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the
 sinner appear?
4:19  Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the
 keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

I think you answered the 'what,' Mike, but not the why.

Yes, it is very true that Christ suffered, and it is very true that as
believers we share in His sufferings.

I think Jill is asking deeper.  Why?  Why is this necessary?

Paul

    
    Because it is the reality which God has created.  It is the means He
    has chosen to achieve His ends.  The view of God's immeasurable
    goodness and riches is most clearly seen in its contrast with wickedness,
    poverty, and suffering.
    
    jeff

    I've got a question that I'd like opinions on (I certainly have my own 
    8^) ).
    
    Should we continue to help someone who continually puts themself into a
    position in which they need to be bailed out (due to bad decision
    making)?  Someone who seems positively unwilling to help themself?
    
    My view on this is that such a situation borders on co-dependency, and
    at some point, you have to stop helping or you make the problem worse.
    
    I realize this is a rather general question, and I can supply more
    details if necessary.  But the whole situation boils down to the above
    comments.
    
    Any comments?                                                    

    Ok, I'll jump in since no one else seems to want to...
    
    I really don't think that there is a clear answer here.  Every case is
    different.  The only thing to do is to seek the Lord's direction on
    this.  His will and timing are what is needed.  
    
    
    Jill
    

 re .6


 no.

As Jill and Jim say, this is so situation specific that no template answer 
can be rubber stamped onto it.

Often it boils down to whether you are more interested in blessing for 
the asked or the asker; whether you put more value on the material 
need/sacrifice or the person behind the request; maybe whether the 
motivation behind the request is deteriorating (making them more dependent 
/ selfish / greedy), or improving (is there percieved repentance or regret).

If you are really more interested in blessing the person who receives the 
request, their main spin-off is apparently patience, and a genuine yielding 
up of material goods and setting apart fropm worldly motivation.  So in 
that case, they should be prepared to give as the LORD gave...

If you are really more interested in blessing the person who makes the 
request, you're onto a much more difficult wicket, because unless you have 
direct revelation, you don't know at exactly what stage, and to what 
degree, resistance is going to bless rather than discourage them.

So it comes back to seeking the LORD for the specific situation, each time. 
Which is very possibly whay He allows one into the situation - to learn how 
to learn from Him continually...

							Andrew

    re: -1
    
    	AMEN!

    I can answer this question, but you many may disagree.  You don't help
    an adult get out of suffering consequences for their behaviors/actions,
    period.
    
    You can help in assisting them to discover why they made such wrong
    decisions.
    
    Love,
    Nancy

    Thanks for the comments.
    
    I tend to agree with you, Nancy (and Jim), but I'll keep praying on this 
    one.  Unless God tells me to do otherwise, I'm withdrawing my
    assistance.
    
    This is not a quick decision on my part, either.  I've been helping
    this person for well over a year (money, favors, and generally putting
    myself out for him) - even letting him stay with me for a
    while at one point (and I have a very small place).  I see no improvement, 
    only an increased dependance upon others due to his bad decision making 
    and unwillingness to hold down a job (this is the only conclusion I can
    come to, he has a trade and he is smart).
    
    I thought I was being too harsh in my opinion until I had a few
    enlightening conversations with his girlfriend.  It seems he is not
    above deception to get his way (it's amazing what a little shared
    information can peice together... she came right out and asked me "Do
    you have any clue as to why he doesn't want to work?"). 
    
    I'll admit that part of my motivation is simply "enough's enough".  I'm
    tired of this never-ending string of "favors".  But also, it is my best
    judgement that as long as someone continues to shield him from the 
    consequences of his own behavior, I don't see any change taking place in 
    the future.  

 Hmm...this isn't my son, Sean you are talking about, is it Steve?




 1/2 :-)

    Uh... no.  8^)
    
    If he were, you'd have to be a lot older than I imagined you.  8^) 

    heh heh heh, he is, he is, :-) 

 Watch it!

    What happened to chit-chat?
    
    Is there a note for comments on 28 (Prophesies & Visions), especially
    the last 10 or so, "gloom, doom, and misery on earth" ones?
    
    While these two questions may not be of the "frequently asked" variety,
    what do you think the most FAQ's after the devastation predicted there
    in 28.* will be?
    
    JPR 

The Note-Gobbler frequently eats the Chit-Chat base note.

Someone should fix it.

Whenever the Note-Gobbler has done its ravenous deed, ANY participant
in the conference can WRITE a new Chit-Chat base note and then
SET NOTE/NOTE=14 to put it into the customary place.

/john

    My son just asked me if Eve wasn't surprised that the serpent could
    talk in the garden of Eden because God perhaps made all animals with
    this ability to communicate.  And if not, then why wasn't Eve
    surprised?
    
    I couldn't answer... can you?

    well...
    
    (just a guess) but if everything is still pretty "brand new", perhaps
    the surprise would be that everything else _couldn't_ talk - after all,
    Adam talked to her, the Lord talked to her, why shouldn't the serpent?
    (and other animals).
    
    Let's face it, how many people talk to their pets nowadays, and insist
    that, in some way, the pets answer back?
    
    hth,
    
    H

    .20
    
    Best answer so far. :-)

    um... er... yeah ;'}

    "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the
    LORD God had made." (Ge.3:1a)
    
    "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his
    subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that
    is in Christ." (2Co.11:3)
    
    Make no mistake.  The serpent was different, intelligent and more
    beautiful than any animal the LORD made.  In my opinion, Eve wasn't
    surprised by the serpent because she was so attracted.
    
    Good lesson for our times!

>    Let's face it, how many people talk to their pets nowadays, and insist
>    that, in some way, the pets answer back?
    
 
<sheepishly raises hand>

    you have a pet sheep!? ;')

 ewe knock it off..that was baaaaad..

    No pulling the wool over your eyes, I see.

    I'm in shear shock at you two!