Conference yukon::christian

    
    	I'm all for it!
    
    	;-)
    

	...Provided, of course, that it is appropriately, responsibly,
and lovingly applied...

Proverbs 13:24
    "He who spares the rod, hates his son, but he who lives him is careful to
     discipline him."

Proverbs 13:18
    "He who ignores discipline comes to poverty and shame, but whoever heeds
     correction is honoured.


    If you love your children, you will teach them how to live.  This
    includes using corporal punishment, according to the first verse quoted.

    Corporal punishment is out of vogue these days, because it implies that
    some things are wrong - sin - and that there is accountability to more
    than just man's standards.

    God has designed this world wonderfully, so that the people first
    responsible for training the a child - including administering
    discipline/corporal punishment, are the people who should naturally
    possess both a love and empathy for the child.  They are physically
    involved in the child's formation, and coming into the world, via the
    most intimate and exciting combination God has invented in the material
    realm.  Children are produced from their parents own bodies.  Children
    also inherit their characteristics from their parents, who should
    therefore be in the best position to understand, make allowances for
    shared weaknesses, and be firm with glimpses of traits they know they
    have to be firm with in themselves!  That is the 'natural' which God has
    wonderfully designed.  Under its 'ideal' conditions, discipline should be
    applied lovingly, under control, and not out of parental stress or anger.

    Sadly, as a result of a fallen world, discipline has become distorted -
    sometimes so that, say, brutal bullying - or worse - is falsely labelled
    discipline, and discipline itself is given a bad name!  The removal of
    controlled discipline from a child's upbringing means that the child is
    not taught proper social or moral behaviour, and its understanding is
    liable to omit vital elements.

    Todays' world tends to substitute formal processes, such as 'verbal
    warnings' etc instead of corporal punishment.  At an early age, a
    multitude of words are confusing to a child, when a brief physical
    adminition, quickly applied, should clearly show them what's right and
    what's wrong.  Immediacy is an important factor for a child, with a short
    memory time!

    The 'formal warning' method for a child tends to go unheeded, as something
    'adult', and a later deprivation of privileges (or whatever follow-up to
    failure is applied) is too far distant in the child's mind to associate
    with the transgression.  The result is a feeling of indignation and
    resentment at what feels like prolonged victimisation, and is more likely
    to result in mental anguish and a disturbed background than a balanced
    individual.  

    While it is good to be able to explain simply where right and wrong
    boundaries are to a child, logical 'reason' comes later in understanding
    than the capability of right and wrong perception.  To wait until they
    understand your words, or can argue their case, is leaving it to late,
    and a child who has learned to reason prior to understanding loving
    discipline has been left too long.

    Sorry, not much in the way of verses, as I'm short on time!

					God bless
							Andrew

I really don't understand the current hoopla about corporal punishment.

'Psychologists' say that it teaches children that violence is an acceptable way
to solve problems.  That when they are adults, they would not be able to
respond to someone who did something that displeased them by hitting them, so
doing so to a child teaches them inappropriate solutions.

The problem is that this line of reasoning effectively eliminates all
discipline altogether.  It's not appropriate to deal with another adult by
imprisoning them (sending them to their room) or depriving them of privileges,
either.  This line of reasoning ignores the fact that the parent-child
relationship is NOT a peer-peer relationship.  It is a special and unique
relationship, in that the parent is charged with the task of teaching the child
appropriate behavior. 

And part of that teaching must include some form of punishment for
inappropriate behavior.  Sending kids into a 'time out' is no more humane to
the CHILD than a swat on the behind is, it just eases the parent's consciences.
The immediate purpose of ALL forms of punishment is to cause discomfort.  (The
long-term purpose can be seen in Heb 12:11 "No discipline seems pleasant at the
time, but painful.  Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness
and peace for those who have been trained by it."  The purpose of a swat on the
behind is likewise to produce discomfort.  The purpose of putting a kid in a
'time out' is ALSO to cause them discomfort - emotional discomfort, as they are
isolated from what they want to do - NO MORE and NO LESS than a swat on the
behind.  The same with revoking privileges.

All of these forms of discipline are INTENDED to cause discomfort.
All of them are inappropriate in interactions between peers.

I do understand that some people associate corporal punishment with abuse.  But
there is such a thing as verbal and emotional abuse too, and we don't try to
tell people not to EVER discipline their kids because some people verbally
abuse their kids.  Judiciously administered corporal punishment is not one whit
closer to abuse than any other form of punishment.  I just don't understand why
corporal punishment is singled out as being somehow 'bad.'

Paul

      I think a study of the word "rod" would indicate that it is
      the Word.
    
    						Tony

    Actually Tony that is not what my study wrought.  A rod is a flexible
    instrument i.e., a leather belt or a switch that is thin and bendable
    without breaking.
    
    

 ABC's 20/20 ran a program Friday night that was a good advertisement for
 improving discipline..I had to turn it off or I would have climbed into the
 TV and spanked the parents and the kids.


 Jim

    Without spanking I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of behavioral
    problems my youngest would have.  He is so strong willed that he
    literally walks all over you if you are not watchful.
    
    Having my sister here for 2 weeks only encouraged me more that spanking
    is the right way to discipline rebellion, disrespect and disobedience. 
    You do not spank a child for childish things i.e., spilling their drink
    on the table [inless they purposely pushed it over].
    
    What a spanking represents is TOTAL submission to the authority.  And
    if that authority is proper and metes out just discipline, then you
    have taught your children a lesson in life that will reap rewards as
    he/she grows into adulthood.  Imagine the public school system with
    kids that actually show respect to the teachers moreso than disrespect.
    
    My children know that authority is represented in several areas; i.e.,
    teachers, adult neighbors, adult relatives, etc.  Along with that my
    children have been taught what is right and wrong.  If one of these
    authorities ask them to do something that is wrong, they then have
    permission to disobey, otherwise they must always submit to the
    authority that is around them.
    
    In today's society children are taught by example to question all
    authority to the point that disorder prevails in most situations which
    house the youth of today.  Corporal punishment should be re-instated in
    our school systems.
    
    

/// Me laughing, picturing Jim bursting through the camera during the filming
of 20/20 to spank the parents...  :-)

Paul

 ;-)

Re: .5  (Tony Barbieri)

>      I think a study of the word "rod" would indicate that it is
>      the Word.
    
Proverb 26:3 says, "A whip for the horse, a halter for the donkey,
and a rod for the backs of fools!"

Proverb 14:3 says, "A fool's talk brings a rod to his back, but the
lips of the wise protect them."

Proverb 10:13 says "Wisdom is found on the lips of the discerning,
but a rod is for the back of him who lacks judgment."

    ...your rod and your staff, they comfort me. (Psalms 23:4)
    

    .12
    
    Amen Jill.  The rod brings comfort actually a sense of safety to the
    person on whom it is used.

 picture a shepherd using a rod and staff..what purpose did they serve?




 Jim

        One of the best books I've seen on child rearing is
        _To_Train_Up_a_Child_ written by Michael and Debi Pearl, an Amish
        couple that had 13 children at the time they wrote the book.  Only
        108 pages, and written so that even I could understand it.

	An excerpt from Chapter 11, "Potty Untraining"

        On a missionary trip to Central America, we were amazed by the
        practice of the primitive Maya Indians in not diapering their
        babies prior to stuffing them into a carrying pouch.  The infants
        are all potty trained.  After experimenting on our own and further
        observation, we discovered that an infant is born potty trained.
        The parents "untrain" them by forcing them to become accustomed to
        going in their pants.

	You can get a copy by sending check or money order for $5.49 along
	with your name and address to:

		The Church at Cane Creek
		1000 Pearl Road
		Pleasantville, TN 37147