Conference yukon::christian

                           PREFACE TO "THE TAO OF PHYSICS"
    
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Five years ago, I had a beautiful experience which set me on a road
    that has led to the writing of this book. I was sitting by the ocean one 
    late summer afternoon, watching the waves rolling in and feeling the 
    rhythm of my breathing, when I suddenly became aware of my whole 
    environment as being engaged in a gigantic cosmic dance. Being a physicist,
    I knew that the sand, rocks, water, and air around me were made of 
    vibrating molecules and atoms, and that these consisted of particles 
    which interacted with one another by creating and destroying other 
    particles. I knew also that the earth's atmosphere was continually 
    bombarded by showers of "cosmic rays," particles
    of high energy undergoing multiple collisions as they penetrated the air.
    All this was familiar to me from my research in high-energy physics,
    but until that moment I had only experienced it through graphs, diagrams,
    and mathematical theories. As I sat on that beach my former experiences
    came to life; I "saw" cascades of energy coming down from outer space, in 
    which particles were created and destroyed in rhythmic pulses; I "saw" the
    atoms of the elements and those of my body participating in this cosmic 
    dance of energy; I felt its rhythm and I "heard" its sound, and at that 
    moment I knew that this was the Dance of Shiva, the Lord of Dancers 
    worshiped by the Hindus.
    
    I had gone through a long training in theoretical physics and had done
    several years of research. At the same time, I had become very interested in
    Eastern mysticism and had begun to see the parallels to modern physics.
    I was particularly attracted to the puzzling aspects of Zen which
    reminded me of the puzzles in quantum theory. At first, however, relating 
    the two was a purely intellectual exercise. To overcome the gap between 
    rational, analytical thinking and the meditative experience of mystical 
    truth, was, and still is, very difficult for me.
    
    In the beginning, I was helped on my way by "power plants" which showed
    me how the mind can flow freely; how spiritual insights come on their own,
    without any effort, emerging from the depth of consciousness. I
    remember the first such experience. Coming, as it did, after years of 
    detailed analytical thinking, it was so overwhelming that I burst into 
    tears, at the same time,not unlike Castaneda, pouring out my impressions 
    on to a piece of paper.
    Later came the experience of the Dance of Shiva which I have tried to
    capture in the photomontage shown in Plate 7. It was followed by many
    similar experiences which helped me gradually to realize that a
    consistent
    view of the world is beginning to emerge from modern physics which is
    harmonious with ancient Eastern wisdom. I took many notes over the
    years, and I wrote a few articles about the parallels I kept discovering,
    until I finally summarized my experiences in the present book.
    This book is intended for the general reader with an interest in
    Eastern mysticism who need not necessarily know anything about physics. I 
    have tried to present the main concepts and theories of modern physics 
    without any mathematics and in nontechnical language, although a few 
    paragraphs may still appear difficult to the layperson at first reading. 
    The technical terms I had to introduce are all defined where they appear 
    for the first time and are listed in the index at the end of the book.
    I also hope to find among my readers many physicists. with an interest
    in the philosophical aspects of physics, I who have as yet not come in
    contact with the religious philosophies of the East. They will find that
    Eastern mysticism provides a consistent and beautiful philosophical 
    framework which
    can accommodate our most advanced theories of the physical world.
    As far as the contents of the book are concerned, the reader may feel a
    certain lack of balance between the presentation of scientific and
    mystical thought. Throughout the book, his or her understanding of physics
    should
    progress steadily, but a comparable progression in the understanding of
    Eastern mysticism may not occur. This seems unavoidable, as mysticism
    is, above all, an experience that cannot be learned from books. A deeper
    understanding of any mystical tradition can only be felt when one
    decides to become actively involved in it. All I can hope to do is to 
    generate the feeling that such an involvement would be highly rewarding.
    During the writing of this book, my own understanding of Eastern
    thought has deepened considerably. For this I am indebted to two men who 
    come from the East. I am profoundly grateful to Phiroz Mehta for opening 
    my eyes to many
    aspects of Indian mysticism, and to my T'ai Chi master Liu Hsiu Ch'i
    for introducing me to living Taoism. It is impossible to mention the names
    of everyone- scientists, artists, students, and friends-who have helped me
    formulate my ideas in stimulating discussions. I feel, however, that I
    owe
    special thanks to Graham Alexander Jonathan Ashmore, Stratford Caldecott,
    Lyn Gambles Sonia Newby, Ray Rivers, Joel Scherk, George Sudarshan and
    -last but not least- Ryan Thomas.
    Finally, I am indebted to Mrs. Pauly Bauer-Ynnhof of Vienna for her
    generous financial support at a time when it was needed most.
    
    Fritjof Capra
    December 1974
    

Completely inappropriate -- as a result, what you attended was not a Christian
worship service on that particular day.

/john

    Kym,
    
    I would not consider this suitable at a Christian service if
    your definition of Christian is to worship the Lord Jesus Christ
    and the Father who sent him.
    
    Mark 12:30,31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart,
    	and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy 
    	strength: this is the first commandment.  
    
    	And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor
    	as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
    
    1John 5:11-12 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal
    		life, and this life is in his Son.
    
    	He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son
    		of God hath not life.
    
    
    

    Re: .0
    
    > came to life; I "saw" cascades of energy coming down from outer space,
    > in which particles were created and destroyed in rhythmic pulses; I
    > "saw" the atoms of the elements and those of my body participating in
    > this cosmic dance of energy; I felt its rhythm and I "heard" its sound,
    > and at that moment I knew that this was the Dance of Shiva, the Lord of
    > Dancers worshiped by the Hindus.
    
    Hhhhmmmm, sounds like someone on an LSD trip. The fact that he mentions
    Casteneda (SP?) makes me really wonder. As Casteneda did actually take
    hallucinagens to get a mystical experience, in his cas Peyote (SP?).
    
    I would agree with the posts so far that this is NOT appropriate for a
    Christian worship service. No I'm really interested in how they related
    this to Christianity?
    
    If you are interested in mysticism check out some Christian mystics
    like St. John of the Cross. I can get you some references if you want.
    Maybe you could pass them on to your Pastor, these may be much more
    appropriate for a Christian service.
    
    
    Peter.
    
    P.S. Sorry for the spelling, I'm a terrible speller.
    

    The purpose of Christian worship is to worship Christ.
    
    I see no mention of Christ in the referenced article, either explicit
    or implicit.
    
    Inappropriate.
    
    /Wayne

    I agree with, Wayne.  What's the point?  What kind of church was this?

I went back and re-read .0, where you asked about this.  I was wondering if
you had posted this as something very meaningful to you, and was praying
about how to respond to you.  I see that you probably don't endorse this,
though it's not clear.  But I will address this as if you DO endorse it:

...

Kym, you may be upset that you offered something that was meaningful to you
and all of the responses so far really reject it.  I am very sorry if that is
your reaction, but I must join in the chorus proclaiming this is 'not of
Christ.'

Without long elaboration, the Holy Trinity is not the only spiritual presence
out there.  According to the truth of the Word, there are many other
spiritual beings out there who would love to deceive us into worshipping
them.  1 John 4:1 says "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test
the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets
have gone out into the world."

If you are interested in further discussion about how to tell whether a
spiritual connection is to God or not, we would be glad to continue that
discussion with you.  But for now, suffice to say that the Bible warns that
connecting with any spiritual power other than the Holy Trinity is always a
bad idea, and from all evidences the spiritual power referred to here falls
into that category.

God bless,

Paul

    Kym, after reading my brother Paul's response, I want to be sure I
    didn't draw conclusions too quickly.
    
    My first reaction was exactly as John Covert's.  If, however, this
    article were read followed by an analysis versus the Truth of God's
    Word, then we could not say you weren't in a Christian worship service.
    
    Need context, I guess.  The article taken alone is an example of NOT
    Christian.
    
    /Wayne

    
    Thanks for you ideas and thoughts. I guess its time for me to add my 2
    cents worth.  The service was a christian service ( well the rest of it
    was ).  This particular service is a more reflective service with lots
    of silence.  Often there are christian readings to reflect on.
    
    When I read in the order of service that the reading was from "Tao of
    Physics" I immediately became suspicious.  As the reading was being
    read out I became even more alarmed and worried that this was being
    read out. I *don't* think that it is Christian. It is entirely
    *non-christian* .  I almost got up and said something during the
    service but I didn't.
    
    After the service I talked to the organiser of the service and told
    him that I thought that the reading was completely inappropriate and
    that it was non-christian.  He apologised for the fact that the reading
    offended me ( he has also written to me ) but he did feel that it was
    ok.  One of his comments was that in John(?) it says that there is only
    *one* God. Since muslims etc are worshipping *a* god they must worship
    to same god as us.  This is complete nonsense !!!! and is WRONG !!! 
    The only way to the father is through the son.
    
    The man that organised the service has asked me to visit him so that we
    can discuss my concerns regarding the reading.  I am going to do some
    research first and then take him up on his offer.
    
    
    Kym

>God. Since muslims etc are worshipping *a* god they must worship
>to same god as us.  This is complete nonsense !!!! and is WRONG !!! 

Well, in fact, like Christians, both Jews and Muslims _do_ worship
the God of Abraham.  (Arabic speaking Christians use the word "Allah"
when they say "God".)

Muslims even honor Jesus as the second greatest prophet, but -- like
Jehovah's Witnesses -- don't accept him to be God incarnate.

This does *not* hold for other religions, though, and does not mean that
_all_spirits_ are actually the true and only God.

/john

    I feel lead to add that the Bible says that our God is the one true
    God but there are other spirits out there.  Remember God says that He is a
    jealous God! 
    
    Jil
    

  Hi Kym,

    I really tried to 'see' something redeeming in what was written!
    The main thing that strikes we about what was written is the 
    response of the writer to what he was seeing.  He appeared to
    be enamored by the "dance of Shiva."  What he never mentioned
    was the "wonder of creation."  I would have hoped, at the least,
    that he would have had a perspective that was inclusive of the
    awesome and wonderful truth that our God is Creator and we can
    see and revel in that as we behold His creation.

    Instead, he referred to eastern mysticism as his perspective to
    the natural beauties he was observing.

    I have a couple of thoughts on eastern mysticism.  I know a pastor
    who was once an eastern mystic.  One of the most well known practises
    is that of meditation and visualization.  He said that, in scientific
    terms, the purpose of meditation is to reduce the rate of thoughts
    (number of thoughts the meditator is having per unit time) to as low
    a number as possible.  When that _rate_ is reduced to a certain 
    range of values, it is within what is termed the alpha corridor.

    It is a range wherein people are exceptionally susceptible to 'other-
    worldly communication.'  This is where I believe the mysticism often
    lies.  It lies within what is perceived when one has placed himself
    in that alpha corridor.  I believe God, in His time and according to
    His will, places people in that corridor and gives them dreams/visions.
    When people CHOOSE (rather than God choosing) to place themselves in
    that corridor, they are susceptible to supernatural influences.

    The writer mentioned Carlos Castaneda, the person who shared his
    experiences with a yaqui indian sorcerer by the name of Don Juan.  I
    have a friend who had a wretched life.  His first conscious thought
    that he can remember is, "I don't want to live."

    He got involved in sorcery and later came upon Castaneda's books.  He
    incorporated those into his experience.  As an example, at one point,
    he believed himself to truly be a raven (this was mentioned in one
    of his books).  He was at the edge of a pretty big hill and he felt
    himself metamorphosize into a bird.  He said he actually felt feathers
    grow on his face.  He then 'lifted off' and started flying.  He was,
    so far as he was concerned, a raven flying from one hill miles away to
    another - even feeling the feathers flapping on him and the sensation
    of flight.  He told me that he doesn't know what really happened, but
    he lost consciousness and when he came to he was precisely where he
    'felt' himself to have flown to and he was miles away from where his
    car was (by the hill he felt himself to have flown off from).

    He also casted spells and said that in one instance, virtually everyone
    save himself that was where his spellcasting took place is now dead.

    This friend said that his first realization that there is a God was
    spawned by his utter conviction that there are demons.  He told me, 
    "Tony, I knew there was a God because I KNEW there is a Satan!"
    (Firsthand.)

    Kym, the absence of mention of at least Creator with the mention of
    eastern mysticism and Castaneda coupled with the physiological realities
    of being within the alpha corridor and with my personal testimony of
    a good friend...I offer all these to you as strong (and perhaps painful 
    and for that I am sorry) evidence that we're talking about something 
    that really is not a good thing!

						Sorry (but in love),

						Tony

      Hi Kym,
    
        I didn't read as far as .9 when I posted .12.
    
    						Tony

    what's worse is that Shiva is the equivalent of Satan in Hinduism and
    this guy was praising him in a church.  He is known as "The Destroyer"
    and is given responsibility (via his many manifestations) for terror, 
    overindulgent sexual relations, starvation, self-mutilation, and drug use.
    
    Mike

re.12

>it is within what is termed the alpha corridor.

I've been there. It's in the Hudson plant if I remember correctly.

8*)

      Uh oh!  I'm there all the time!!!
    
    					Tony

re.16

> Uh oh!  I'm there all the time!!!

Nothing gets by you.

8*)  8*)

      Maybe we should have a comment before and after my replies 
      much like on a pack of cigarettes.
    
      Beware, some of what Tony has written may have been induced
      by emanations from "the alpha corridor!!!"
    
      (Imagine Rod Serling saying this by the way.)
    
    						Tony

    .18
    
    bwaahahahahahahahahahaha

re.18

There's the signpost just up ahead...


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