Conference govt02::basingstoke

                          WSHH Sports and Social Club
    
                       Calendar Of Events: OCTOBER 1991
    
    Date	Event						Contact	       
  October
  
       17th	Des O'Connor					   MP
       31st	RIO-RIO Mexican Restaurant			   JM
  
  November
  
       5th	TV Show: Jim Davidson				   JM
       16th	Cadbury's World Visit??				   AH
       19th	Theatre: Joseph's Technicolour Dreamcoat	   MP
       20th	A.G.M. + Cheese & Wine
       28th	TV Show: WOGAN					   JM
  
  December
  
       7th	Boulogne Shopping Trip				   ST
       8th	Clothes Show Exhibition				   KB
       13/14th	Centre Parcs Weekend				   AH
       18th	Disco at Martines				   AN
       22nd	Childrens Pantomime				   MP
  
                               ---------------
  Contacts:
  
    AB	 Andy Beale 	     7849 3324	    
    RD	 Rosalind Doidge     7849 3298	    
    JA	 Joan Allport	     7849 3275
    JH	 Jeremy Hawke	     7849 3220
    MW	 Margaret Williams   7768 5246
    AH	 Alex Horsnell	     7768 5404	    
    AN	 Alex Nicholls	     7775 3036
    MP	 Mellainie Pellet    7849 3681
    PD	 Paula Dell	     7843 6350
    JT	 Jennie Toothill     7843 6204
    ST	 Steve Tomlin	     7768 5258
    JM	 Jenny Moxley	     7768 5159
    

    Re: .0 Les, maybe you should be on the committee.
    
    Re: .1 Des O'Connor - Are you serious ?
    
    Roy

Weeeelllllll I did consider it .. but with all the other things going on
at the moment (me personally), I can't spare the hours it would require 
to do stuff.

Re .1
Surely not *the* Des 'O' Connor? The boring one on the Telly?

...Les...
"Lets all use News ... Please gateway this conference"

    
    
    Weeeeellllllll if you can't spare the time then how can you expect
    anyone else to??? The CSC S&SC is usually manned by the same people
    year in, year out who are probably just as busy as you. How about
    making some suggestions for events?  
    
    

I know and understand all this ... and I was at the AGM. I did even make
a suggestion (but it was already on the board). Are all those suggestions
going to be run .. I think not, so hows about letting us know whats actually
happening ... whats being considered, whats already booked?

Communication seems to be the greatest problem with the CSC S&SG.

...Les...
"Who'd love this to be gatewayed to News"

    Les,
        As an ex-member of the CSC SSC, I feel I am justified in answering:
    
    <FLAME ON>
    
    Yours are typical comments from most of the people in the CSC, "we are
    too busy to do anything ourselves....but why can't the SSC do...etc
    etc..."
    
    Do not forget that most of the SSC are also "Too Busy" but _DO_ find
    some time to organise events etc etc...and it is always a thankless
    task.....
    
    The answer is to get off your butt and go and find out what's
    happening....maybe even approach them and say..."I have an idea..it
    costs this much..can someone arrange it as I am "too busy"..." it 
    will then be actioned as soon as possible.....
    
    Give the SSC a break, as Karen said, it is always the same people who
    are on the committee and they get lots of flack from people who think
    they could do better but don't.....try it..you'll see what I mean...
    
    <FLAME OFF>
    
    
    Paul
       
    

    
    We all understand that the people are busy, but why is there such a
    large difference between what is going on in other S&SCs, (as seen in
    .1) and the CSC S&SC?
    
    Steve.
    

    Re -1
    
    More money, more ideas??
   
    

   >> More money, more ideas??
    
    Bit of both probably, but fundamentally 'More People'!!
    
    With ANY club you will find only a small proportion of the membership
    prepared to get off their butt and actually manage the affairs of that
    club. 
    
    Thus the larger the membership the better chance you have of finding
    those people who will do things to help others. What other
    organisations do you belong to? How much do you contribute to the
    running of that organisation??
    
    At present WSHH SSC has about 800 members but a 'committee' of about
    10. Try applying this sort of percentage to CSC and you end up with
    about 0.25 of a person.
    
    Yes more people generate more ideas and more money. There are two
    extreme of implementing them: Lots of events at very little subsidy or
    very few events at large subsudy. We (WSHH) try to strike the balance
    and, judging from comments from CSC and READING, are moderately
    successful.
    
    For once I support Paul (.6) you cant criticise ANY club unless you
    have tried to help out.
    
    
    Andy. 

Well, looks like i'm nicely cooking (all those flames :-)

Look,

I'm freshly back from being away for 8 months or so. During that time some
(ord censored) decided to remove the main communications link in the CSC
- namesly the Building Mailing List. Now there's some stupid program 
ruinning on the cluster which provides info. I see a DCL prompt maybe
once every 5 days (Ultrix !), my logins give me applications. This may
be part of the reason as to why I haven't heard anythng from the CSCSSC
folks. 

YES I AGREE ITS A THANKLESS TASK

YES I AGREE SOMEBODY SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

YES I WOULD DO IT MYSELF IF I THOUGHT I'D GET ANYWHERE

The SSC seem to be organising events for the minority in the CSC. Occaisionally
I hear about groups going to events (rarely and after the fact), but *never*
by any official channel.

I am *very* happy to have recieved (last week) the Xmas D&D sheet. It used 
to get organised for paying on October payday. Is this a reflection on the 
current overwork in the building?

Is SSC supporting the BuildingBowl being organised currently?

Okay this is scappy and incoherent - sorry ... its late (&dark).

...Les...
"This conference ... shortly gatewayed to news (Hopefully)"

    I'll tell you what Les....Let me make a suggestion to you...Why don't
    you join the CSC SSC (we have a meeting on the first Wednesday of every
    month) committee.There,you can make the suggestion of publishing a
    monthly bulletin which is physically distributed by you & edited by you
    & given to each & every person in the CSC....Then you can sit & tell
    us all about the minority trips that are currently/previously being
    organised.Finally,you can sit down & tell us about all the wonderful
    trips/events that you'd like to see being organised by the SSC.
    In this way,we can finally see the vision.
    
    	The reason why the building distribution list was replaced by 
    news was simply because we were constantly being told that too 
    many people were not receiving information about SSC events.You 
    probably have a workstation sitting on your desk.If you open up 
    another window,you could probably log into Kernel & read what 
    is being organised.
    
    	Your excuses may seem valid to you but they could be applied to 
    each & every active member of the SSC committee.As has been said by
    other noters,yours is a very typical attitude to what is being done.
    You have the potential to change/improve what is done by the SSC.This
    opportunity is offered to each & every member of the SSC at the AGM.
    You can join the SSC & put forward your proposals & organise things
    that interest you & the "majority".
    
    	If you don't want to put up,then please shut up.
    
    
    	
    Kevin

    re: .10
    
    If you've been away for 8 months...how did you manage to enter notes in
    October then...???

Re .12

Away for 8 months ... Oct 90 -> July 91

Re .11

Yeah right ... if I spend every hour of every day for the next 5 years, 
something might come right. 

Seriously though I have no beef with the current committee, I just wish they'd
listen to the units more. I'm sure all the organisation skill is there (which
I have none ... and am thus useless to the committee), the ideas put on the
board at the AGM (yes *I* *was* there) were generally good. How many of the
good (large scale) suggestions are likely to come about???

Re .14

Hello who ever you may be.

...Les...
"Here ... have another can of worms ..."

    	Would you like to list some of the events that you would so like
    to see being done???
    
    	IMHO all you've done is gripe about what is wrong with what is 
    currently done together with giving every excuse you can as to why
    you are not up to the job...If you cannot be bothered to log into
    Kernel & take the two minutes (or less) to read through the news 
    items published,tough.Just don't go griping about the lack of 
    communication by the SSC committee.Also,if we had a member of your
    unit on the committee,maybe they could put forward your case.
    
    	In the meantime,unless your going to give more than excuses &
    moans,give it a rest!!!
    
    Kevin  

>Would you like to list some of the events that you would so like
>to see being done???
 
No. I'm not going to do the committees work for it.

***FLAME ON***
Now look, I don't need you to give me shit about reading this stupid new system.
When I log into Kernel, I go straight into an application. I neve EVEN SEE 
whether there is News in the system. Kernel IS NOT MY MAIN SYSTEM. Also,
I don't need you to tell me that no one from my unit is on the committee. I 
have said this to them previously.

I am NOT trying to moan about the way the SSC treats me personally, what I 
want to see is some commitment from those on the committee to communicating
their decisions about how they spend OUR MONEY. I am not going on the 
committee. I do not have power to force other people to do so (if you
do then maybe you should exert some!).

If you don't like the way I do things, then maybe thats *my* business.
If you don't listen to what the members of the SSC say (I presume you
*are* on the committee), then maybe my money would be better spent elsewhere.

and finally

The SSC (IMHO) does not portray itself well by using you as a spokesperson,
the attitude you are presenting is not constructive. If more members of the SSC
spent some time discussing the SSC (even if they knew who was on the committee
it would help to get their gripes noted) then maybe something would be done.

I won't give it a rest and you can't make me!

...Les...
 

       Sorry to interrupt this interesting exchange.

       I'd just like to mention that to convert KERNEL NEWS items to
       MAIL messages is fairly easy, and anyone is welcome to get in
       touch with me if they require this facility.

       Carry on...

       Ian.

    It's not interesting, it's pathetic...Keith :-(
    

  
  Re .16 (Ian)
  
  > I'd just like to mention that to convert KERNEL NEWS items to
  > MAIL messages is fairly easy, and anyone is welcome to get in
  > touch with me if they require this facility.                 
  
  Let me guess ... one DECterm running NEWS, one DECterm running MAIL and
  a little bit of cut & paste between them ? :-)
  
  [ To continue the rathole ... does anyone actually find NEWS more useful
  than mail ?  Personally I find it a real pain and would much rather get
  a mail message that I can ignore/delete/file on the system of my choice
  (like I do with the junk mail that NEWS was supposed to prevent). Is it
  just me or do other people find that there are no real advantages with
  NEWS over mail ? ]
  
  Frank

    
    Re .19
    
    Speaking for most of the Ultrix unit, I think Kernel NEWS is a complete
    waste of time.
    
    What gets my goat is that we (the users) didn't get a choice.   We even 
    sent a rep from the Ultrix unit to I.S. to tell them we didn't want it.  
    We were told it was going to happen and that was that.
    
    -John

 
>No. I'm not going to do the committees work for it.

	That's good,but so far you have done a fair bit of moaning without
giving any evidence.

>***FLAME ON***
>Now look, I don't need you to give me shit about reading this stupid new 
>system.When I log into Kernel, I go straight into an application. I never 
>EVEN SEE whether there is News in the system. Kernel IS NOT MY MAIN SYSTEM. 
>Also,I don't need you to tell me that no one from my unit is on the committee. 

As has already been stated,there is a facility to change News to Mail.

>I have said this to them previously.

You seem to say a lot of things to people & expect them to do the work for
you.If you took the little bit of time it takes to read news,the question of
a lack of communication would not arise.The communication is there.You choose
not to read it.

>I am NOT trying to moan about the way the SSC treats me personally, what I 
>want to see is some commitment from those on the committee to communicating
>their decisions about how they spend OUR MONEY. 

There is commitment from every member of the committee when they join the
committee.There is committment from the committee whenever they organise an 
event.There is commitment to communicate the information everytime an event
is posted on News.You were at the AGM.You had the opportunity to influence
how that money was spent by joining the committee.You chose not to,thus
leaving the decisions to those who do take the time to attend & work out
the events.You do see how the money is spent by the events that are organised
IF you choose to read them.
 
>I am not going on the committee. I do not have power to force other people 
>to do so (if you do then maybe you should exert some!).

If you don't want to go on the committee,fine.I have no more power than
yourself to force other people to do so.

>If you don't like the way I do things, then maybe thats *my* business.

Yea,fine Les.Whatever you say.

>If you don't listen to what the members of the SSC say (I presume you
>*are* on the committee), then maybe my money would be better spent elsewhere.

The committee constantly listens to what its members have to say.Criticisms
are answered.Events are organised & subsidised to whatever degree is feasible.
Any reasonable request for a particular event and subsidy is considered & 
given by the committee for any event members may want to organise.

>and finally
>The SSC (IMHO) does not portray itself well by using you as a spokesperson,
>the attitude you are presenting is not constructive. 

I am not acting as spokesperson for the SSC committee in this case.I am merely
stating my point of view as a committee member.If you would like me to answer
it as a committee member,then as I have said before please feel free to attend
the next committee meeting on Wednesday 6th December.

>the attitude you are presenting is not constructive.

I am not trying to be constructive or destructive.I simply fail to understand
why you feel that the committee's communications channel is so inadequate
when you know it is there but choose not to use it.

>If more members of the SSC spent some time discussing the SSC (even if 
>they knew who was on the committee it would help to get their gripes 
>noted) then maybe something would be done.

This is the first time I have heard any complaint as to the communications
channel & also that we also cater mainly for minority events.You seem reluctant
to give details of events that supposedly cater for the majority.You also
seem reluctant to use the communications channel that you know exists but
do not want to take the time to use.This on top of telling committee members
to take more time organising events we didn't know about(majority events) &
to take more time communicating the events!! 

>I won't give it a rest and you can't make me!

No probs.And I suppose that means that my dad isn't bigger than your dad:-)

Kevin
 

    
    I have left me flame thrower at home, but...
    
    I wonder if non S&SC people realise the work involved in some of the
    events that are run. For instance, the annual dinner dance. It is a
    nightmare to organise. You don't just book the hotel and turn up. The
    S&SC members do everything from sorting out raffle prizes to table
    arrangements. Oh and of course take a lot of flack on the evening 
    because there is no hot water, or there is only one pillow on the bed.
    
    I have done the children's Xmas party for 4 years. This year I have
    said enough is enough.  You need to book entertainers/disco months in
    advance, sort out a location, food, forms, ages and sex for the
    presents, which all have to be bought and wrapped (approx 70), blow up
    balloons, and that is all before the event! On the day you dress up and
    smile while you supervise lots of children who are there for a party,
    who want to be fed, escorted to the toilet and kept happy.
    
    These are two extreme examples, but people expect them to happen every
    year. The S&SC may not be the same as it was, but then motivation is
    low everywhere, and the committee members are only human. But they
    still do the job, in spite of their own work/personal committments. You
    do get a little thanks occasionally, but you get a lot of s**t too.
    And if you can spare the time to have an idea for an event, then spend
    a minute or two communicating it to the committee who will discuss it's
    feasibility at the next meeting. It's YOUR Sports & Social Club, if you
    want to criticise it make it constructive criticism. And may I suggest
    that if you have a real beef then mail it to a committee member who
    will take that to a meeting, you can also request a copy of the minutes
    if you are really interested in what is happening. Once again it's YOUR
    Club. If you are not happy DO something about it!
    
    Karen
     
    

    
    WOW!
    What a time I picked to read this conference!!
    I probably shouldn't answer with my official hat on, but I will anyway!
    
    In my opinion Kevin has done a great job so far as spokesperson, even
    though that wasn't his intention. Guess what? I agree with him!!!
    
    Since I started work at Viables, I've been involved with the SSC in
    some way.  At first as a committe member & now as Chairman. During that
    time(about 4 years), I've seen several people come & go! The same few
    are left organising events & doing the work that needs to be done.
    They are busy people too, but if they left, as Tony suggested, there
    would be no CSC SSC!!
    
    The people I've mentioned are committed & do their best to organise
    popular events & use YOUR money wisely. The events organised are
    advertised on notice boards, News AND building messages!!
    
    Let me give you some idea of the "minority" events organised this year!
    In my opinion they cover the majority! Jeez! a biased Chairman to
    boot???
    Past				Forthcoming
    
    Fun night				Martines
    Chessington Zoo                     "grope"
    Alton Towers                        Pantomime trip
    Martines                            Carol service
    Beechdown Karaoke                   Kids xmas party
    Theatre trips                       Dinner dance
    Ballet trips                        Olympia
    Le Mans                             Go karting
    Hypnosis evening		        Euro Disney trip
    Olympia
    
    There are probably more past events & definitely more forthcoming!!!
    
    We try!
    We're busy too!
    We're human!!
    
    
    
    Liz					
    

    
    
    
    Here's a list of the current CSC SSC Committee. As usual, &
    understandably, they aren't all active!!
    
    
    Liz Clatworthy	(Chairman)
    Sandra Ronald	(Secretary)
    Brian Johnson	(Treasurer)
    Kevin Moriarty
    Karen Pewter
    Pat Oliver
    Nicky Hasking
    Frank Briggs
    Ann Walden
    Monique Doughty
    Lynne Hales-Owen
    Mark West
    Dave Coggon
    John Foster
    John Daby

    Go-Karting!
    
    When?
    
    Where?
    
    Steve.
    

    
    
    Liz,
    
    
    is it worth setting up a CSC SSC notesfile, so that us non-news readers
    have some idea about what's going on ?
    
    Paul

>Just don't go griping about the lack of communication by the SSC committee.

So when do we get told about the go-karting then ?  :-)

Ian.

Can I have a copy of your batch proggy to mail news.  How about entering it
as a NEWS item  :-)

    
    
    Notesfile? Good idea!!  Go for it Paul!!!
    
    The go-karting details will be distributed soon!
    
    Liz

    
    Okay Liz,
    
    I'll try and get one set up.........
    
    Any volunteers to moderate it ?
    
    Paul

Didn't we used to have one of those before.
A notesfile on SSC that is.

I think the small volume of notes entered
contributed to its demise.

    
    any idea where it is/was ?
    
    I think the amount of notes generated in this topic alone justifies
    having some form of cummunication between the S & SC committee
    members and the rest of us - it seems obvious that news isn't meeting
    that need.
    
    I must admit, until I saw Liz's note, I didn't even know who was on the
    S & SC committee or what events were being organised.
    
    Paul 

        The notes conference was KERNEL::SOCIAL_CLUB. Last new note was
        13-NOV-1989 (by coincidence).
    
        Ian.

Re .22

>As has already been stated,there is a facility to change News to Mail.

Yep, I just found out about that one. How about somebody getting hold of the
old building mailing list and doing the deed! (This needs somebody with 
VMS knowledge ... which I do not have).

> Lots of stick about not reading NEWS

Rathole. Stop castigating me for the way I choose to do things. Remember
I do not even SEE whether there is any information on NEWS or not. NICE,
Avail, router, notes are all either autostarted or run always on my systems.

>Yea,fine Les.Whatever you say.

Hmmmm

>The committee constantly listens to what its members have to say.Criticisms
>are answered.Events are organised & subsidised to whatever degree is feasible.
>Any reasonable request for a particular event and subsidy is considered & 
>given by the committee for any event members may want to organise.

If the way you have responded to my critisisms is the way the SSC in general
responds, then no wonder few people complain.

>I am not trying to be constructive or destructive.I simply fail to understand
>why you feel that the committee's communications channel is so inadequate
>when you know it is there but choose not to use it.

I did know NEWS is there. NEWS is a pain, everybody (bar the SSC committee 
and IS it seems) knows this.

Re .23

Yes agreed, morale is low everywhere. PLEASE STOP TELLING ME TO DO SOMETHING
ABOUT IT!!!

Re .24

GREAT!!! A List of forthcoming events - Hey a Kids Xmas party! Wow! Whats 
Olympia (apart from Xhibition hall)? Carol Service ... great?

Yes I know things get better at Xmas because the SSC *has* to do things for 
everyone (grope, Martines, DinnerDance), what about the rest of the year?

Re .25

GREAT!!! Finally a list of the committee members.

Re .27

Wasn't there a Notesfile already ? KERNEL::SOCIAL_CLUB, got about 4 notes 
as I recall.

Re .28

Nice one Trevor.

Overall.

Well, looks like some thinking is occurring about the SSC, nice to see after
all this time. Maybe instead of setting up a *new* notesfile, you should
post into the (already largely read) BASINGSTOKE conference? a CSC SSC topic
should go down nicely in there. I *might* take you up on the invite to the
next committee meeting (I doubt it though since I have lots of stuff going
on in early december, some work ... some not). 

I'd be interested to know what the large group who read but don't usually
post into this conference think?

...Les...
"An unlean, unmean, walking machine"

    A NEWS->mail gateway will fall into the same administration trap as
    the old building list. (ie. if the list isn't constantly maintained then
    every deleted account name on the list will return a mailing error to
    the sender of the mail.)
    
    What we need is a NEWS->News gateway. This would be a program that took
    NEWS items (NEWS being the VMS program by Peter Bailey) and posted them
    to News (USENET News for which DECUK is a sever).
    
    If we had this then us lovers of the U-word could get the S&SC updates
    automatically. 
    
    
    Stephen.
    
    PS. What do you think the GNU people mean by the Vomit Making System??

       The descision to replace the building messages with NEWS was an
       I.S. one as far as I understand, and nothing to do with the SSC.

       As it happens, most of the SSC information I've received lately
       has come via MAIL through their own distribution list.

       Those people who have contacted me have had their accounts added
       to the NEWS -> MAIL utility. If anyone wants to write a VMS NEWS
       to USENET NEWS gateway, I'm willing to lend assistance  with the
       VMS part.

       Ian.

    
    RE .34
    
    Glad you're impressed by the kids xmas party Les!! I will be when it's
    over!  As Karen said in a previous note, it's one of the more difficult
    ones to organise. A lot of work & money goes into it.
    
    The Olympia trip is a showjumping event.
    
    >Yes I know things get better at Xmas because the SSC *has* to do things
    for everyone (grope, Martines, DinnerDance), what about the rest of the
    year?
        
    Gosh! A positive statement!(The first bit anyway)
    Yes, there is more going on around xmas time, I would imagine that
    applies to most SSC's. The SSC "has" to do things for everyone the rest
    of the year too! I thought I'd shown that in the list of events. Did
    you miss that??
    
    
    Liz                                                                       
    

    
    
    I'd just like to add my thoughts about SSC in general.  In my 5 years
    as a permie with DEC (I'm a contractor now), I was always on the SSC
    committee - like the CSC SSC we agonised over ideas for events (I was
    based at the Crescent).  
    
    It does annoy me somewhat when non-committee members suggest that the SSC 
    in any building aren't trying hard enough for SSC members. 
    
    Most non-committee members have *no idea* how difficult it can be just
    to get to a meeting (not all managers support people attending meetings
    that aren't work related), then you have to come up with ideas that
    no-one has ever thought of before - perhaps if those people who aren't
    happy with the events on offer could come up with some inventive ideas
    (I'd like to see you try!).  I can pretty well guarantee that any event 
    you suggest will be greeted with a "Oh no, not again, we did that last 
    year and the year before".  
    
    So, give your reps a break, they work hard, with little or no thanks at 
    the end of the day, and yet they *still* do it!
    
    Alison
    

    
    There is in fact a Viables S&SC option on VTX. Perhaps we could utlise
    this again.
    
    And Les, don't moan at us about telling YOU to DO something about the
    S&SC, because that's exactly what you are telling us. Once again, it is
    your S&SC... I take it you do pay your 50p a month? :)
    
    Karen
    

    Rather than take sides, I want to make a suggestion.  Why doesn't the
    CSC S&SC employ someone explicitly for the task, then no one gets
    taken for granted, and there is a focus person for ideas, organisation
    and critism.
    
    Suzanne

    
    Re .41
    Suzanne, I actually put forward that suggestion!!  Guess who I had in
    mind for the job? :-)  It's not economically viable at the moment
    unfortunately!
    
    Re .40
    > Les has not made this commitment.
    No, quite right! I think what was being said though was that there are
    several people around who moan about the current SSC committee & what
    they do & don't do.  What we actually need are people prepared to do
    something about it rather than sitting around complaining!
    
    >but by agreeing to be on the committee (I presume you are... and
     did!) you are putting yourself in a position where people will tell
     you what they want you to do. 
    
    Wouldn't that be wonderful!! We generally get a few new suggestions at
    the AGM, but for the rest of the year it's up to the committee to come
    up with the ideas, cost the event, arrange the event, advertise the
    event, collect money for the event, & pay for the event. Simple!!	
    
    Liz

    
    
    RE.40
    
   >  but by agreeing to be on the committee (I presume you are... and
   >  did!) you are putting yourself in a position where people will tell
   >  you what they want you to do. Les has not made this commitment.
     
    You presume correctly, but I never said I don't want people to tell me
    what they WANT to do with regard to the S&SC, that is what the club is
    all about. I just think that negativity is counter productive. I am
    still waiting for constructive ideas.
    
                                             

    
    I couldn't get into this KERNEL::SOCIAL_CLUB notesfile, but.......
    
    IS have been kind enough to provide a new notesfile
    
    KERNEL::CSC_SSC
    
    It's up to you if you want to use it, but, Liz Clatworthy
    (Chairman/woman/person) of the CSC SSC has promised to try and put all
    forthing coming events in there......
    
    KP 7 to add.......
    
    Paul
                     

    
    Re .43
    
    ABSOLUTELY!!
    

    You can say a lot of things about Les but if he hadnt started up this
    note the S&SC wouldnt have had a new notes conference!
    Les for life president!
    Ian.
    

Re .35

No. NEWS->News is a good idea if we all used Ultrix, but ...

Re .36

There is no need for a NEWS->News gateway, if you mail to a specific 
address on decuk it will convert it to the correct newsgroup for you. (This
needs setting up, so you'll have to wait). Can you add me to the list anyways?

Re .37

You obviously don't recognise sarcasm when you see it.

I did see the list of events, sorry I forgot to ask just how many people
went or are going on this "Olympia" thing?

Re .38

Yes I understand how difficult it is for people to get to these meetings, but
if they've put their names forward for the committee, then shouldn't they be
ready to give up their evenings to go to them?

Also, whats so bad about doing the same things over and over again, if they're
still as popular as ever?

Re .39

VTX ... NO NO NO thats even worse than NEWS!!!

>I take it you do pay your 50p a month? :)

I think so.

Re .41

Hmmm, I belive the committee should be capable of finding out what people want
from the SSC. Does it *really* require one person to do the work that the others
don't want to do? And do we have to pay them from SSC funds when there are 
*voluntiers* on the SSC committee. Maybe they don't realise exactly what the
job *should* entail when they join?

Re .42

>What we actually need are people prepared to do something about it rather than
>sitting around complaining

I thought thats what the committee was for.

Re .44

Wow! Surely not a new communications channel?

Re .46

>You can say a lot of things about Les but if he hadnt started up this
>note the S&SC wouldnt have had a new notes conference!

Did I hear the words "Negativity" and "counter-productive" earlier?

>Les for life president!

Not so keen on this bit.

---

I'll get the CSC_SSC notesfile gatewayed into cscuk.notes.ssc as soon as
I get the Notes->News gateway software across. Can I have permission from 
the moderators to make it 2 way (post and read) please?

Is the committee now going to read and post to the conference?

...Les...
"Custard streaked along the side of a train"

Re .47

ABSOLUTELY!

(Somebody has to back you up!)

    
    	I am sure we should all expect as much as we can get from the S&SC
    committee voluteers and I believe that they do a lot for us, but should
    they not expect some +ve support from the us?.
    
    	It is a too easy to sit back and say that things are not being 
    communicated effectively or the events are not what "I" would want to
    do, this is the easy option out!. If you want things changed then yes
    complain BUT offer constructive ideas to effect a fix.
    
    	If you look at your pay advice you should see an entry with;
    
    		"SOC.CLUB 0.50"
    This means you're a paying member of the S&SC and if you ain't got this
    coming out then you're not a member!.
    
    Dave.

    
    
    I THINK THE ANSWER TO ALL THIS NONSENCE IS ...IF YOU WANT A PARTICULAR
    EVENT/ACTIVITY TO TAKE PLACE....ORGANISE IT YOURSELF... AND NINE TIMES
    OUT OF TEN YOU WILL GET THE SPONSORSHIP FROM S&SC.
    
    THIS POLICY WORKS...AND BY DOING IT YOURSELF YOU GUARENTEE ITS SUCCESS!

I still can't see that typing $NEWS is more of a pain than typing $MAIL.
In fact NEWS is easier to type as the last three letters are positioned very
close to one another on a QWERTY keyboard.

Personally, I like NEWS (and I don't work for IS). It saves a lot of wasted
disk space from people who don't delete their mail when they've read it, and
I don't keep getting new mail broadcast messages on my screen, just one
message a day at 2 in the morning telling me whether there is news or not.

And another thing, I wish the ULTRIX group would cut out this "ULTRIX is
better than VMS" bulls**t. It's getting boring!!


Ian

    re: .54
    
    Hear Hear
    
    
    Ultrix is VMS Spelt wrongly..!!!
    
    :-) :-) :-) 

    
    
    I have NOT made a comittment to be told what to do. I have made a
    comittment to be a S&SC member and as such welcome ideas, not abuse.
    And as Les has *not* made a comittment to the S&SC, and is not even
    sure if he pays his dues, he does not have a God given right to slag
    the comittee off. I am STILL waiting for constructive (yes there's that
    word again) suggestions to transform our poor inferior little club,
    perhaps Tony could be of assistance???
    
    Karen
     

    	Tony,I don't think you'll find any of the committee members not
    willing to take the flak - it comes with the territory..However,if
    everyone took your viewpoint of "well if you don't like the flak then
    don't do it",I don't believe there would be a SSC at all.Now you have
    already stated that this wouldn't bother you - fine - but I think 
    there would be a fair few people (including management) who would be 
    loathe to see the SSC folding.
    
    	Part of the problem is that there does seem to be a general apathy
    around SSc organised events,both in organising & in joining in the 
    events.This may well be due to some of the members being there too long
    (me included).However,if the core of people that contribute to the
    committee do disappear then I believe that to all intent & purpose so 
    does the SSC itself.
    
    	We honestly (well I'll definitely speak for myself here) do not
    mind getting criticism whether as a whole or aimed at an individual.
    All I am saying is that instead of just continually criticising,come
    up with some solutions & maybe (being as you seem to be bothered enough
    to complain) help with implementing the solution.That is not a "If you
    don't like the way I do it then do it yourself" retort,just a reply to
    try & get something closer to what you (& obviously a number of other
    people) want from the SSC.
    
    	Everyone on the committee has/is/will keep trying to organise 
    interesting/majority/varied events but a little bit of help does go a
    long way.
    
    Kevin

    
    All of this fuss about not organising enough stuff/not announcing it,
    and the first decent (IMHO) event comes along, Karting, and how many
    people want to go? 5! 
    
    Looks like the S&SC are fighting a bit of a losing battle. They don't
    organise enough events, and people complain. They organise events, and
    people don't go!
    
    Still, it keeps the Basingstoke conference moving along!
    
    Steve. (one of the karters!)
    
    PS. Hope you've got a big disk to store this on, on SAC!
    

Unfortunately I didn't hear about it!

I'd love to come!

Mark.

    
    
    RE .57
    
    Oh give it a rest Tony, most people are so apathetic about the S&SC
    they don't even bother giving flak, no chance of you joining that lot?
    I am not as active in the S&SC as I used to be, simply because of the
    apathy from the members and the hassle of it all. We do it voluntarily,
    none of us are masochists.(At least I don't think so..) If the whinge 
    brigade continue we might just as well all give it up. Then they'll have 
    to think of something else to moan about..."why haven't we got a Sports 
    & Social Club?"  Bet your life none of them will get of their backsides 
    and do anything about it. 
    
    Oh and as for flak, I don't think the committee actually deserves any
    of it. 
     

    
    Isn't it strange how it's ok to attack but defense is a no-no...
    Kevin may feel criticism comes with the territory, but as I have been
    saying all along, yeah criticise, but balance it with suggestions on
    how to improve it. If someone has a gripe then fair enough, but be
    prepared to input something useful too, then your criticism will be
    taken more seriously.
     

Karting: This was announced in the S&SCnotes conf which nobody reads therefore
there was little interest in the event.

I suggest the S&SC find a better was to distribute info on events.


Stephen.

    Is it not already done with Mail-shots to all subscribers? Seems a good
    method to me. Not that I ever read them. They're refiled in the
    Wastebasket PDQ!
    
    :)ougie
    

    Dougie
    
    In our building (Viables) we no longer use mail sent out to a building
    wide distribution list. We have a wonderful application called 'News'
    which very few people ever read!
    
    Steve.
    

    
    This would then indicate that the sports & social club are not be
    chastised for people not being aware of events..!!
    
    There were no complaints of this sort when the events were mailed 
    round the building...but...there are now that news is the media.......
    
    does this suggest something to all the budding sherlocks out there..??
    

    
    Les,
    
    
    I've read the first 16 or so replies to this article, and it makes 
    me want to chuck up, I normally speak my mind, in this case I wont
    becouse the moderator won't allow my real thoughts to be published
    and I want people to read what I have to say. Firstly, there's a 
    lot of work going on behind the scenes making things possible for
    the CSC, there's a lot of flack received for things that go wrong.
    We're all volunteers and if we don't do this, who will, you certainly
    won't. If you want sob stories about not enough time, book a couple
    of days out and I'll tell you mine !
    
    I know that people like Sandra and Liz do an excellent job on the 
    sports & social. 
    
    This is my own suggestion to you Les, come to the Kids christmas party
    next year, we'll give you jelly & ice cream. Santa will sit you on
    his knee and give you a present. You never know, you may feel at home
    with the kidies.
    
    For someone who's placed so many notes articles on this conference,
    time seems no problem to you.
    
    
    			Bestist wishes 
    
    				Dave C.