Conference 7.286::digital

If this is the same meeting cited in February 20 issue of "Digital Today" (Vol Vi, Issue 7),
Then perhaps you can also post directions to Bali, the site of the next DECathalon.

    
    	Nice going Roelof; we all knew you would amount to something
    someday:-)
    
    	BTW, are these .PS files, or standard text? My VAX wants to know.
    
    	Us US field sales types don't have *real* Internet capabilities.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    Did these per chance come from the S.D. zoo? I`m still waiting to hear
    that message.

    
>   Nice going Roelof; we all knew you would amount to something
>   someday:-)
    
    Funny, the only other person who says that is my Mom :-)
    
>   BTW, are these .PS files, or standard text? My VAX wants to know.
    
    PDF is...well..PDF. Portable Document Format and is known and
    loved by advanced Webbabublites. It is a sort of compressed
    Postscript and comes from the same folks who gave us Postscript
    in the first place, and no, your VAX printer will choke and belly
    up as soon as it sniffs it.
    
    The .exe files are the same ones Bill Gates eats for breakfast. It'll
    explode to a PPT presentation. For that you have to get one of
    those little PC-thingies that you're always claiming to be 
    selling millions of...
    
    

    
    	Show what? I'm now so confused I better call Marketing.
    
    		the Greyhawk
    
    	  

    PDF?  Where is the viewer for the OSF/1 system??

     I am gald he at least posted that legacy system directory file name
    location. Since I have internet at home and at my customers site, but
    not when dialed into digital "'cus we no hav slip man". 
    
    From the outside trying to look in. Or trying to get in from the
    inside.
    
    Thanks from the one who still cannot surf.
    
    -Mike Z.

    
    re. 6
    
> both a comprehensive _and_ coherent strategy.

  The WPS-8 "File Document" coommand.  I think it was a "Luddite" joke.

                                   Atlant

    
     re.-1
    
    Ohhh, couldn't figure out why he'd call marketing, though.  :)

>>    The .exe files are the same ones Bill Gates eats for breakfast. It'll
>>    explode to a PPT presentation. For that you have to get one of
>>    those little PC-thingies that you're always claiming to be 
>>    selling millions of...

With Powerpoint installed on it, I assume.

So...uh, I've copied over the .exe files to my PATHWORKS disk...now how do I get
these to "explode" into a .PPT file?  Are these view only files, or what?

I have Powerpoint v4.0 on my pc, and want to look at these presentation slides!

(Incidently, its a DECpc, LPv466d2...a nice machine!)

Thanks!

    Re .14 You have to execute the .exe file first. From the description,
    it's probably compressed with PKzip, then run through their zip2exe
    program that creates a self extracing archive. Just copy the .exe file
    to it's own subdirectory, then type xxxx.exe (where xxxx is the file
    name) and it'll do it's thing.
    
    Then you should be able to figure out the rest from there. :-)
    
    Harry
    

    The .exe files do self-extract into .ppt files ... BUT then Powerpoint
    returns the error message "Not a PowerPOint File".  Examination of the 
    reputed ".ppt" file using View seems to indicate it may be a Corel Draw 
    (.cdt?) file...
    
    Anyway, that's true of the first two (corp_sgy.exe and csd_sgy.exe).
    
    Help?  Suggestions?
    

    My rev of PowerPoint is old, and when I hand it .PPT's done by a more
    recent one, it also reports "Not a PowerPoint file."  FWIW...?
    

RE: .14-.17 (problems viewing the files)

I copied the .EXE files to my local system, down-loaded them using WRQ (I 
have heard that KERMIT or Z-Modem will work, but I didn't happen to use them)
specifying BINARY file transfer, and then executed the .EXE files.  I got
.PPT files out, which PowerPoint V4.0a and PowerPoint Viewer V4.0 read with
no problems at all.  There are even speakers notes...

Copying them to your local Pathworks file server, then executing the .EXE
files, should again produce .PPT files which can be read by PowerPoint V4.

I looked over several of them.  There is some good information here.  Nothing
astonishing, but nicely put together.  The CORP_STRATEGY.PPT (aka CORP_SGY.EXE)
has some nice financial graphs which show that our business fundamentals have
been growing solidly over the last 3-4 quarters, and give some reasons for
confidence in the future.

None of the presentations that I looked at would be sufficient unto themselves
to really make a good talk, but when you take a few slides from here and a few
slides from there, they could form a solid financial and business portion of a 
larger presentation.


RE: .0 > for the one or two of you out there without Web access...

No criticism intended, but looking over the replies to this string, *NOT ONE*
of the people here tried to access the files using the WWW.  *ALL* of us used
the after-thought method of copying them over the Easynet.

For those of us in the Field, many of whom are "participating" in the
Telecommuting program, with no Digital office anywhere near us, Web access 
is a dream.  Yes, the offer went out a few weeks ago concerning a company
which would offer us discounted rates if we signed with them.  But notice
the locations they offer with local dial-ups.  I for one can only access
them using long-distance phone numbers.  So for me the offer was useless,
and WWW access remains an idea of "maybe someday"...

-- Ken Moreau

    re: .-1                     
    
    I know it may not be immediately obvious with all those Web-surfers
    talking about all the neat graphics they've found, but if you have
    dial-up access of any kind to a Digital system, which most of those in
    here seem to have, you have access to the Web.
    
    If your dial-up host has TCP/IP (for example, VMS with UCX), you have
    access to the Web directly from there. If not, you have acccess via a
    set host to a guest account.
    
    You don't need anything fancier on your end of the wire than a VT100 or
    a VT100-compatible terminal emulator.
    
    -Tom

    re: .18
    
    > No criticism intended, but looking over the replies to this string,
    *NOT ONE*
    > of the people here tried to access the files using the WWW.  *ALL* of
    us used
    > the after-thought method of copying them over the Easynet.
    
    
    Ummmm.....you are right - those that replied did not use the Web. But
    others of us *did* in fact use the Web, and had not problems, thus we
    did not need to write.
    
    There are many of us trying real hard to get the Web everywhere
    possible within Digital. If you believe it would help make your job
    easier I hope you have told the right folks that.We can't make a solid
    business case for this unless senior management believes there is a
    need/demand. 
    
    /thorgan

    Please note that I have a _new_ and more permanent location for the
    files:
    
    	HLDE01:USER_02:[VUURBOOM.STRATEGY]
    
    (They are still also at the old location for the time being).
    
    The presentations are indeed in V4.0 Powerpoint. 
    
    In order to help our many friends in One-Release-Behind-Land I 
    could use a little help from my friends in Up-To-Date-Release-Land 
    since having to re-save _all_ these files in 3.0 format is really 
    time consuming. 
    
    So...
    
    ...If you've downloaded the files and found them useful and have 
    Powerpoint 4.0 will you - as a token of gratitude :-) - save 
    just _one_ presentation in 3.0 format and upload either the PPT (or 
    .zip or .exe if you have the tooling). Put in a reply which one 
    you're doing so others will pick a different one...
    
    If the file is called xxx_sgy call it xxx_s30 so for example
    corp_sgy.exe becomes corp_s30.exe (or .ppt or .zip).
    
    As they say at Intel  6.99997999 hands make light work.
    
    I'll convert any PPT or .zip to .exe if you don't have the
    tooling.                                                        
    
    The directory to upload to is HLDE01::USER_04:[TEMP.STRATEGY]
    which is open for business..ehh...writing.
    
    
    re roelof
    
    

    Roelof:
    
    Please check the file protections ... just tried copying and got
    insufficient privs error.

>RE: .0 > for the one or two of you out there without Web access...
>
>For those of us in the Field, many of whom are "participating" in the
>Telecommuting program, with no Digital office anywhere near us, Web access 
>is a dream. [...]  So for me the offer was useless, and WWW access remains 
>an idea of "maybe someday"...
>
> --Ken Moreau

Ken,

I am very well aware that your situation is typical of many in the field
today and I am pleased when you complain - long and hard - both here 
...and to your management and IMT.

As Tim pointed out, many of us are working hard to move the
World of Wide Webs into Digital and the best way to do this is to
create a demand for it (as well as creating a resulting complaint stream 
when that demand cannot be satisfied). This is a grass roots effort with 
no formal coordination what so ever...which as you know makes the chance 
of success a lot higher. 

What you also know (but others may not) are the reasons we are going
to all of this trouble:

	1. Our customers are moving onto the Web in droves and so is our 
	   competition. This implies that Web access and Web awareness 
	   has already become a competitive tool and differentiator for 
	   field and sales people in any company in our market space. 

	2. The Web is rapidly becoming the most potent wide area 
	   delivery mechanism to the market and right now Digital's weakest 
	   point and Achilles' heel is  exactly its delivery mechanism to 
	   the market. 

	3. Digital's understanding and expertise of internet(working) 
	   technology gives us the capability to drive this faster
	   and harder than most - if not all - other key players.
	     
In other words, rapid and wide acceptance and use of the Web in Digital may 
allow us to leverage what is possibly our strongest point to protecting 
and strengthening what is possibly our weakest point. 

As Tim also pointed out even VT100 access will get you onto the Web and
for the one or two of you :-) who don't even have this, engines are now 
starting to come on line which will even bring you web access through 
_email_ as the mail below indicates. (Note that this particular engine isn't 
working today but the trend is what's important).

And maybe none of us should ever forget that dreams are made reality by 
people just like you and me...

re roelof

*************************************************************

From: s.panter@dce.vic.gov.au (Steven Panter)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.users
Subject: World Wide Web by email
Message-ID: <s.panter.115.000FD1A8@dce.vic.gov.au>
Date: 20 Feb 95 15:49:01 GMT
Organization: DCNR
Lines: 39
NNTP-Posting-Host: dandpc02.dce.vic.gov.au
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

According to "Accessing The Internet By E-Mail, Doctor Bob's Guide to Offline 
Internet Access" I can get html pages sent to me via email by using the 
following commands.

"you can retrieve it by sending e-mail to either of:

   listserv@www0.cern.ch
   listproc@www0.cern.ch

In the body of your note include one of these lines, replacing "<URL>"
with the actual URL specification.

   send <URL>

This will send you back the document you requested, with a list of all
the documents referenced within, so that you may make further requests.

   deep <URL>

There is another WWW-mail server whose address is:

   webmail@curia.ucc.ie

This server requires commands in the form:

   go <URL>
"

I have tried these a couple of times and got absolutely nothing back.  When I 
tried to contact BobRankin@Delphi.com about this my email bounced.

Does any one know why the above is not working, or know of another way to get 
the html pages sent back.

Any help appreciated.  Please email directly, my usenet feed has been a little 
tempormental lately.

Steven Panter
s.panter@dce.vic.gov.au

    Let me repeat my request.  Is there PDF viewer available for OSF/1?  I
    consider myself Web-aware.  My experience suggests that out in the real
    world PDF format is used very sparingly.  It is mostly html files
    sprinkled with .gif and .jpeg along with .ps files.  In fact, apart
    from Adobe and Tandem, I have yet to see the links to PDF documents.
    
    If PDF is universal format, it has still a long way to go.
    
    Please, please provide the document in .ps/.html/.gif/.jpeg so that
    multiplatform clients can access them.
    
    Lot of engineers DON'T have PCs on their desk.
    
    - Vikas

    > Is there PDF view available for OSF/1?
    Negative. Windows. DOS. Macintosh. Solaris. But no OSF/1.
    
    > In fact, apart from Adobe and Tandem,...
    Note that Intel took to producing its reports in PDF during
    the Pentium controversy.
    
    For Windows enabled I have also put the PDF browsers (in self
    extracting format) into the new directory.
    
    Now lets see...we have requests for 8 files in 3.0 format and
    8 files in .PS format. All you folks out there rushing to the 
    rescue please get into two lines...
    
    I'll see what I can do...(sigh)
    
    re roelof

    The presentations have been added to The Web Pages
    (http://www-iu.mro.dec.com/public/front.html), or directly at
    http://www-iu.mro.dec.com/public/strategy.html. 
    
    As far as I know there is no PDF viewer available for OSF/1 (or as it
    is now known, Digital UNIX. We will be looking into creating a
    postscript version of the PDF file.
    
    /Tim

    The trouble with pdf is that Adobe is not releasing the sources for the
    client.  Apart from Sun, no other Unix workstation can view pdf files.

    Come get your Postscript while they're hot!
    
    I generated these using a Digital LN03R ScriptPrinter driver.
    According to Distiller this gives Postscript Version 2012.017.
    
    All Postscript files end in .ps and can be found at
     
    	HLDE01::USER_02:[VUURBOOM.STRATEGY]
    
    For the one or two of you with Web access :-) I've also
    put the Postscript files at:
    
    	http://www.apd.dec.com/lnx_int/ps
    
    For the PPT V3.0 followers: no luck (yet) I'm afraid. I get
    a "Sorry, 304 error. Here's Bill's private phone number:" text
    when I try to save the V4.0 in V3.0 format.
    
    Anybody else want to try? As usual, all volunteers in two lines
    only please...
    
    re roelof
            

Supposedly there is a freeare PDF viewer ala GhostScript 
being developed.

   erik

re. <<< Note 3715.29 by HLDE01::VUURBOOM_R "Roelof Vuurboom @ APD, DTN 829 4066" >>>

>    	http://www.apd.dec.com/lnx_int/ps

Fatal Error 403

Access forbidden: 


-Avinash

    Anyone out there want to share how you can get web access with a
    dumb terminal like at VT 100 or VT220.

     In the Chicago All-in-1 cluster, Lynx is installed. This is a
    charactor-cell based web viewer. 
    
    You might ask your IPMT group.
    
    jim
    

   The LYNX Web Browser software for VT terminals is installed on all South
   Central Cluster ALL-IN-1 clusters, for your "surfing" pleasure ... Injoy!

>Supposedly there is a freeare PDF viewer ala GhostScript being developed.
>
>   erik
    
    Erik, is this "free as air" viewer meant for OSF/1?
    
    re roelof

>    	http://www.apd.dec.com/lnx_int/ps
>
>Fatal Error 403
>
>Access forbidden: 


The program automatically checks for your National Security Clearance...
    (Ok, ok, so i forgot to set the directory to browsable, should
    be ok now)

    re: .32
    
    If you do not already have Lynx installed on your host/cluster, you are
    welcome to copy ours. I have attached the README explaining the 3
    simple steps to make you "Web-enabled" with even the most ancient of
    equipment. :-)
    
    I believe this provides Web access to everyone in Digital, except for
    those who are completely off the Easynet or are restricted to a
    pre-VT100 class terminal,
    
    -Tom
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are on a CNS site server, you may already have Lynx installed. At the
DCL prompt, type

	$ HELP LYNX

to find out.

Lynx requires TCP/IP (on VMS, you'll need UCX, TGV Multinet, or another TCP/IP
package). If you only have access to DECnet, see the note at the end for access
to a guest account. 
    
Instructions for installing Lynx on VAX/VMS are included here. We suggest
installing these in a public directory so that others on your cluster or system
can also use them. 
    
This is LYNX V2.3 for VMS, the last "fully released" version. This is not the
"current official kit" (beta), which can be found at TECO::SYS$PUBLIC: (see the
LJSRV2::INTERNET_TOOLS conference, note 126, for details), but this will get
you running with your home page set to the Digital internal home page. You can
customize your startup page using the "options" command within Lynx. 
        
    		VAX/VMS Installation of Lynx
                ----------------------------

To install Lynx, the character-cell interface:
    
 $SPOOL COPY CFSCTC::DISK$CFSUSER03:[SMITH.LYNX_PUBLIC] [public-directory]*.*;*
    
Each user then does the following:
    
 1) Add the following to your LOGIN.COM:
    
    	$ @[public-directory]LYNX.COM
    
 2) Type LYNX at the command-line prompt (after logging in or
    manually executing the above .COM file).
    
    
    		Using Lynx if you only have DECnet
                ----------------------------------

The following was announced in LJSRV2::INTERNET_TOOLS
    
    The Network Systems Laboratory is offering a service to provide Mosaic and
    lynx to DECnet nodes. To try this service: 
    
    1. [to use Mosaic, the X-interface,]
      Use the Session Manager's "Customize Security" option to allow X access
      from node W3DEMO:: (Use 10941:: if you don't have an up-to-date DECnet
      node database).
    
    2. SET HOST W3DEMO, log in as w3demo. Please make sure you type w3demo
      exactly as you see it here, in lowercase. 
    
    3. If you select Mosaic, you will be prompted for your display name. Type 
      NODE::0, where NODE is the DECnet node name of the machine on which you
      performed step 1. 
    
   IP hosts can telnet to host w3demo.pa.dec.com. If you use X over IP, please
   remember to specify a fully-qualified domain name for your display. Send mail to 
   w3demo@w3demo.pa.dec.com (or W3DEMO::W3DEMO) if you have any
   questions or comments. 

    

    While at it, can you nuke those pesky "^D" at the begining and at the
    end of the the postscript files? Viewer choke on it :-(

    I've removed the pesky "^D"'s at the beginning and end of
    each file as well as those darned "^M"'s at the end of each
    line.
    
    The file mkt_sgy.ps is not complete, I'll try and replace
    tomorrow...

Free as GhostScript is free, I think. I'll go back to
wherever I found that rumor and double-check.

   erik

    Just for the sake of clarity (to others): the PDF viewer from
    Adobe (called Acrobat Reader) which runs under Windows, DOS,
    Macintosh and Solaris (strike OSF) is free and can be downloaded
    from http://www.adobe.com
    
    There have been some grumblings and mumblings here about PDF.
    So why PDF?
    
    (1) There's a damned good viewer for it that really works. I've 
    _never_ had a properly working Postscript viewer under Windows.
    
    (2) The viewer allows you to search for words in the text.
        It also supports bookmarks.
    
    (3) Its about 60% the size of Postscript.
    
    (4) It'll print on any donkey ear, inner tube printer
        that you might have floating in your swimming pool.
    
    (5) It runs on a number of popular platforms (all together now:
        except ....)
    
    (6) The viewer is free _and_ comes from the guys who brought you
        Postscript so there's a chance it'll stay up to date and stay
    	good quality.
    
    (7) Last but not least, you don't have to get up at dawn to shoot
        people. I hate getting up early.
    
    re roelof 
    

ghostscript 3.28, now in beta test, handles PDF files.  Not a rumor.

___Pete

    
    Ref: .37
    
    Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!
    
    After spending days trying to get lynx set up here, trawling through
    endless notes files and getting more and more confused, I come across
    this wonderful piece of concise writing and half an hour later I,m
    surfing :-)
    
    Now if someone could tell me how i can view web graphics using Keaterm in a
    "window" on a PC well..
    
     

    The SI presentation listed in 3715.0 looks as though it lost some
    information as it was prettied up.
    
    Note the following from the European Systems Integration Engineering
    Newsletter February 1995 (editor Elia Perrina @AEO) which includes a
    more readable version and some more detailed business numbers:
    
    Mike

-------------    
    3. SI PRESENTATIONS
    
    There are two presentations available as Powerpoint files. One presentation 
    is on the Objectives and Strategies of SI. The other is on the SI Portfolio 
    for the worldwide SI Practice.
    
    The following presentations are in Powerpoint 4.0 format and can be copied 
    from DOTTY::CS$PUBLIC: (.PPT or .PS)
    
    -Systems Integration: Objectives and Strategies Presentation (SI_STRGY.PPT)
    -Worldwide Systems Integration Practice Presentation (WWSI95.PPT)
    
    You can also contact Linda JOHNSON @OHF for further information.
    

>    Just for the sake of clarity (to others): the PDF viewer from
>    Adobe (called Acrobat Reader) which runs under Windows, DOS,
>    Macintosh and Solaris (strike OSF) is free and can be downloaded
>    from http://www.adobe.com
    
Note that the Acrobat reader/PDF viewer doesn't run on Windows NT either.




-Andy

    re: .43 (RE: .37)
    
    Thank you!
    
    Note one _small_ problem in the README. It should read:
    
        You can customize your startup page by adding the following to your
        LOGIN.COM:
    
            $ DEFINE "WWW_HOME" "<startup_URL>"  ! be sure to quote the URL
        
    -Tom

Actually the rumor I heard was that Aladdin (of Stuffit fame)
was working on a PDF viewer.

I'm glad to hear that GhostScript is going to support PDF.
That's great news!

   erik

RE: .20
    
>    Ummmm.....you are right - those that replied did not use the Web. But
>    others of us *did* in fact use the Web, and had not problems, thus we
>    did not need to write.

No criticism or insult intended.  Take whatever emotion you read in my comments
as frustration and perhaps a little envy, not malice or anger...
    
>    There are many of us trying real hard to get the Web everywhere
>    possible within Digital. If you believe it would help make your job
>    easier I hope you have told the right folks that.We can't make a solid
>    business case for this unless senior management believes there is a
>    need/demand. 

I have been told that I have been perhaps a little too forceful in passing
this message along to my management chain, and that perhaps I should moderate
my tone, but your statement is exactly on target.  We should reinforce the
message that we **NEED** WWW access **EVERYWHERE** inside Digital.

    
RE: .37 -< Web Access - How. >-
    
>    If you do not already have Lynx installed on your host/cluster, ...
>
>    I believe this provides Web access to everyone in Digital, ...

I just tried it.  

It was installed on the system I get service from, the CNS ODIXIE VMScluster.
I just accessed the WWW for the first time, and ***I **LOVE** IT***!  I did
it over a VT220 emulator on a PC over a 9600 dial-up (WATN), and it was still
quite acceptably fast.  I browsed, I changed home pages (thanks to .46 for the
method of changing the root), I followed links, I had a *great* time...

Bless you for the pointer!  I love Notes, and the helpful people who populate
this notesfile.  :-)E6

-- Ken Moreau
   (who now won't get a bit of work done tomorrow, either by spending all my
    time browsing the Web when I should be working, or by falling asleep at
    my terminal because I stayed up all night tonight browsing the Web :^))

> I have been told that I have been perhaps a little too forceful in passing
> this message along to my management chain, and that perhaps I should moderate
> my tone, but your statement is exactly on target.  We should reinforce the
> message that we **NEED** WWW access **EVERYWHERE** inside Digital.
    
    Don't ever change.
    
    You are right.  Management that wishes to obstruct access to the Web is
    misinformed.  And short-sighted.
    
    Imho.
    

> I have been told that I have been perhaps a little too forceful in passing
> this message along to my management chain, and that perhaps I should moderate
> my tone, but your statement is exactly on target.  We should reinforce the
> message that we **NEED** WWW access **EVERYWHERE** inside Digital.
 

    Sigh...

A couple of notes ago, the writer spoke about the CSD Management Meeting
(Feb 8-10).  There was a takeaway kit attendees received that contained 
slides from most of the presentations (in Powerpoint) on 12 diskettes.
Since most CSD managers attended, you may be able to borrow a set 
from your manager.  If not, I've attached some ordering instructions.
Costs about $40 (w/o shipping).

In addition, there is a 15 min. videotape -- overview of meeting -- you
can order from VTX IR.  Good messages about the CSD and the
meeting in general. 

Lynne

HOW TO ORDER THE MANAGERS' IMPLEMENTATION KIT

  Supply this EY number:  EY-N231E-PO
  Quantity
  Description: CSD Managers' Implementation Kit
  Your name
  Your badge number
  Your DTN
  Your mailstop
  Your complete shipping address: street number, town, country, and country 
	or zip code
  The name of the recipient
  Your cost center
  Your cost center manager's name
  Date of request
  Type of carrier (normally UPS).  If you request FED-EX, you must pay for 
	shipping

Send Electronic Mail to : MAILPO@MKO or MKOTS4::MAILPO


HOW TO ORDER THE CSD MANAGEMENT MEETING: Making the Turn VIDEO

The "CSD Management Meeting: Making the Turn" video is orderable via the 
Integrated Repository (VTX IR) video express service.   Order number 
VI563Z -- both NTSC (U.S.) and PAL (Europe) tape standards.
   

    Roelof,
    
    hlde01::user_02:[vuurboom.strategy] has still got access restrictions.
    
    John

    As far as I could see only on the .PDF files but should be ok now.

    
    .48 et al-
    
    	Sometime, someday, somewhere we (as in Digital's exercise of its
    	basic [read:mgmt] *core* competency) are going to realize that
    	when a customer talks to us it is not something "to be taken with
    	a grain of salt".
    
    	I suppose I should be amazed at our leadership's ability to "miss
    	the boat" everytime the shipping schedule gets published, but after
    	two days with 'em - I ain't!
    
    	Like Ken, I have been asked to "develop a more positive focus to
    	our company". Clearly, I have a very positive focus. I think, and
    	have stated repeatedly, our product set can't be beat.
    
    	Our execution of basic business functions, however, leave a whole
    	lot to be desired. I'm not going into a long song and dance, but
    	one thing was made real clear. We still do not understand cause
    	and effect at the more elevated levels in this company. Sorry,
    	guys, but parading around in your underwear is *still* not
    	amusing.
    
    			the Greyhawk

>    	Like Ken, I have been asked to "develop a more positive focus to
>    	our company". Clearly, I have a very positive focus. I think, and
>    	have stated repeatedly, our product set can't be beat.
    
    My, God, Greyhawk, are you kidding?  YOU have been told you don't have
    a sufficiently positive view of Digital?  Jeez, I frequently find you
    ALMOST overwhelmingly positive in here, and I can't believe your
    management doesn't think so too...  Who are they looking for - Pollyanna?
    
    BTW:  This DOESN'T mean I necessarily agree with you, just that
    compared to some of the folks who are somewhat more pessimistic, you're
    pretty damn positive and upbeat without clamping your blinders down so
    tight you can't see any reality at all...

    
    	Well, thank you for the vote of confidence, Mr. Perez. It is very
    much appreciated.
    
    	I think the attitude results from my apparant inability to spend
    more time on my knees with my lips puckered. C'est la vie.
    
    	Have a great weekend.
    
    		the Greyhawk

    
    
    Not without dinner first, eh Greyhawk?

    I have here a specific question. There was papers about software
    strategies. I didn't notice too much about, what is the selling
    strategy for software. At least we in this country don't have a single 
    person responsible of software sales to channels. We do sell software
    in SI projects but that doesn't bring in the volume. So who sells all
    of the software, which we are doing ourselves or software of our
    partners (e.g. Netscape browsers).
    
    --Ritva
    

     
 >   I think the attitude results from my apparant inability to spend
 >   more time on my knees with my lips puckered. C'est la vie.
 >   
 >   	Have a great weekend.
 >   
 >   		the Greyhawk
    
    Gosh, Greyhawk, you simply have to get a more positive focus on
    getting on your knees with your lips puckered :-)
    
    Have a great weekend (practising :-)
    
    re roelof

Greyhawk, I think their perceptions might be more accurate than many of us
are willing to admit.  Sure, sure, you keep praising our products to the
skies and heaping positive words on all the hard-working digits who bust
their butts to produce and sell and maintain them.  But then you keep
raising the question of whether management is ever going to make even a
V24 2.4KBaud connection to reality.

You see what I mean?  You're being negative about our core competency.

Steve ;-)

    
    	Thanks, Steve - I'm going to take Tex's "read my lips" advice and
    doctor-up my Wheaties each morning. What's even more amazing is my
    singular lack of desire to become a Digital core compentency. Goes
    to show what three years of constant turmoil, downsizing,
    reengineering, and reorganization can do to one human being. What,
    IMHO, is so amazing is that ICs still maintain such a passion for
    Digital. Maybe there is *truth* to the rumour of foreign substances
    being added to the water....
    
    
    		the Greyhawk

Nah, it's not something we're drinking.  We're just a bunch of highly
addicted technoweenies who can't get used to the idea that being the
best isn't good enough.

Actually, Greyhawk, it's you guys in Sales I don't understand.  A good
salesman can sell stuff that's considerably less than the best, and make
a pile doing it.  Why have you hung around at Digital when you could
probably have made better bucks with one of our competitors?

Steve

    
    	Used to ask myself the very same question, Steve; but I like
    underselling quality and performance, and having delighted customers
    after the sale. True, it's a little trickier than overselling SUN or
    H-P stuff, but I've also had a little "rebel" in me for years.
    
    	And one never has to say "I'm sorry" when the quality shows!!!
    
    		the Greyhawk
    		

    
     I second the thought of not understanding you sales weenies. We have
    a high level of respect for you all. I mean really, do you think
    channels are going to save this company? Do you think partners are
    going to save this company? Do you really think VARs and OEMs and
    insert favorite industry niche are going to save *this* company.
    
     While divesting from a sole source of resource is good, the more
    you have in your camp is good, the overall quality, passion and
    expertise of your local "digit" will *save* this company.
    
     Look around, see who is left, look at their skills and desire,
    do they *burn* for digitals success, do they have passion? Do they
    understand what they are doing? Can they sell, market, build, fix
    sooth or deliver?
    
     A lot of us can............ a lot of us sorley..... have not a clue.
    
    -Mike Z.
    
    Vaction time *still* for sale, interested?

    Channels marketing....phbbbbfft!  Half of the ones I work with are
    totally clueless on our hardware, software, licensing, how to place an
    order, how to follow up, getting a loaner pak, or other areas in which
    our clients appear to have an interest.  They rely totally on
    consultants spending non-billable time to fix their messes while they
    wait for the commission check.
    
    At some point, it appears that all Digital customers will be
    permanently running on loaner paks, thus creating a black market
    the Columbians will eventually dominate.  Fast faxes, flying low at
    night on secured lines will be delivering the contraband to quivering
    customers, waiting for their pak fix to let them keep processing until
    the next time.
    
    Folks, it just ain't a pretty site...er, sight.
    
    							Tex

    
    	I'm not sure what the last two are getting at...
    
    	Channels sales and channels marketing are two different beasts. I
    think marketing sucks, to put it bluntly. Sales types are working their
    little fannies off fixing Digital's inability to do almost anything
    that is customer-centric, like shipping workstations on time, with
    the right software and documentation, invoicing properly, being able
    to ship to the *correct* address (try multiple drop ships by line items
    sometime if you really want to have a fun day), just getting sales
    collaterals for VARs is an effort (anybody seen an updated SOC
    lately?).
    
    	And as much as I like you, Tex, we don't get *commission* checks
    in sales. If we make our numbers, we get our base salary BACK!!!
    
    	Ain't life in the fast lane grand?....
    
    		the Greyhawk

    T'ain't you, Greyhawk.  I'm referring to the Flakes in CA we discussed
    earlier.  Might be my terminology is off.
    
    The Digital salesfolk I've worked with have been impressive, let me
    leave no doubt.  Their work keeps us in Friskies.  It's some of the
    third party folk that, I believe, snort their breakfast.
    
    							Tex

re: .65

>                                        I mean really, do you think
>    channels are going to save this company? Do you think partners are
>    going to save this company? Do you really think VARs and OEMs and ...


A few suggestions directed toward our business partners (resellers):

1) Eliminate ECP credits.  Just being there 1st is not sufficient. It's
   possible that competition will require they evolve 'added-value'
   differentiators to compete (in addition to price).

2) Establish a certification system (aka Gold, platinum, Silver levels).
   Each certification level would also have two parts; business and technical.

Have our 'business partners' demonstrate they technically understand our
marketing messages and technical configuration rules.  Measure via testing.
Charge a small fee for the training and testing.  (Others do it, why not us?)

Depending on their # of unit sales coupled with the amout of sales / technical
staff they 'certify/maintain' the greater the margin we provide to them.
(To do more unit volumes, they may have to consider doing demand creation
not just order fulfilment...hmmmm?)

I submit that if they are _serious_ about reselling our products - and the
margins (carrot) we hang out to those who really sign on to do this - resellers
will ante up.  Granted they'll need to invest, but the reward (read:margin) 
will be worth it.

Bottom line, our customers (and ourselves) would be (more) assured that not
just every Tom, Dick and Harry (with no added value) is selling our product.

- Taylor

    Gee must be the ones you guys deal with over there. I find the vast
    majority of the ones I deal with way smart and professional and how as
    a whole we deal with them way dumb and unprofessional.
    
    Bet Ford never deliver the cars to their dealers without vital bits
    like we do. !
    
    There is avery long way for this company to go, the $ related to each
    box is getting smaller and we have to move more. We can only do that if
    we cover more of the market. Partners greatly assist with that. 
    
    In NZ we do about 10% of total local market. Given that we won 1 in 3
    deals we only covered 30%. Interesting. Either that or we lost 9 out
    10. Scary.
    
    All my partners find us hard to deal with, I do to. Some days nearly
    impossible.
    
    Worst thing is that we seem thinkwe are so smart and think our partners so
    dumb. We treat them like s*** some days.  
    
     

From my interpretation of this I would like to point to

HUMANE::HUMOR note 810.8 as a summary


#:')

    eeek
    

>    Bet Ford never deliver the cars to their dealers without vital bits
>    like we do. !
    
    I once took delivery of a brand new Ford Pinto.  In the trunk, under
    the spare tire, was a piece of (clean) toilet paper with this scrawled
    on it in crayon or grease pencil:
    
    		+-------------------------------+
    		|				|
    		|				|
    		|  Please excuse third-grade	|
    		|				|
    		|  s*** paper, but I don't	|
    		|				|
    		|  have no more damn PGM	|
    		|				|
    		|  bolts.			|
    		|				|
    		|				|
    		+-------------------------------+
    
    At least they *documented* their mistake!  :-)
    
    -Mark
    
    P.S. I showed the note to the dealer, who had a good laugh but didn't
    know what PGM bolts were (either).  And I drove the car about 100,000
    miles and it never did break down from PGM bolt failure.

    on the contrary, that was simply a "quality record" as required
    by the QS9000 standards. 
    
    bk

        The slides of the Corporate Strategy presentation as given by
        the CSD/Business Strategy Group can be found on the internal
        Web at:

        	http://gigi64.mro.dec.com/slides/corpstrt/start.html

        Bob
        (Technical complaints to me, strategy complaints to CSD.)

        The slides of the Corporate Strategy presentation as given by
        the CSD/Business Strategy Group have been revised.

        The revised slides can be found on the internal Web at:

        	http://gigi64.tay1.dec.com/corpstrt/start.html

        Bob
        (Technical complaints to me, strategy complaints to CSD.)