Conference 7.286::digital

    Few engineers I know have moved successfully into their operation...
    
    steve

    Given the fact that Quantum was absorbing almost twice as many DEC
    employees as Quantum employed themselves at the time of the acquisition
    it is naive for anyone who decided to accept the Quantum offer to think
    that at some date there would not be big cutbacks that would hit the
    former DEC employees.
    
    In the early 80's I woorked for a company that manufactured electronic
    connectors. We were acquired by a Fortune 500 company becoming a
    Division of that company. The Division then acquired other connector
    companies. Having been both acquired and then part of the teams that
    absorbed other acquired companies I can assure that the acquirer always
    romances the employees of the acquired company with statements of how
    much we need and value you. After the honeymoon is over the weeding out
    and outright cutbacks of acquired employees begins in earnest.
    
    Lyndon

    Says a lot about Bob's statement that these sales are made with the
    best interest of the employees being a major point of the consideration
    when weeding out potential byers.
    
    Sigh,
    	Bill
    

re Note 3659.3 by STAR::PARKE:

>     Says a lot about Bob's statement that these sales are made with the
>     best interest of the employees being a major point of the consideration
>     when weeding out potential byers.
  
        Did he say *which* employees?

        Bob

    No Quatrum didn't shed all the old Digital empoyees.. according to my
    sources 75 employees were let go from all all areas and about 1% were
    Digital.
    
    It was well communicated before hand.  
    
    Cal

I don't see how Quantum could shed all ex-Digital employees. Until they 
bought up the Digital stuff, they had virtually NO manufacturing 
capacity - they had most things made for them in the Far East by 3rd parties.
This was told to me by a senior Quantum employee in Europe -so I've no reason 
to doubt it.

I'd always assumed that they'd bought up Digital to give a new dimension
to their business?

-Steve

Quantum manufactured high end disk drives in California before they bought
out the three Storage businesses.

Chris

    re: 3659.5
    
    >> It was well communicated before hand.
    >>
    >> Cal
    
    	...ummmmm the folks that I spoke with, who were let go from the
    	SHR facility, were unceremoniously walked out of the facility
    	as they were walking in the hall, returning from the mens room,
    	etc..
    
    	They were told to make an appointment to pick up their personal
    	belongings the following week. Not real well communicated
    	beforehand IMHO.
    

   re: 3659.5 <STOWOA::CCALCAGNI>

   >No Quatrum didn't shed all the old Digital empoyees.. according to my
   >sources 75 employees were let go from all all areas and about 1% were
   >Digital.

       Well, according to my inside source, Quantum is also hiring for some
   positions also.

   Tony

    Kevin,
    
    Depends on whom you spoke with.
    
    Cal

    re. 3
    
    Sounds like the same tired old "this company is supposed to take care
    of me" crap.  BP's first responsibilty is to the stockholders, not the
    employees.  If you will learn this lesson in life, you will be a lot
    better off and be better able to "take care of yourself".
    
    This is not a socialist country and this should not be a "socialist
    company".
    
    There are no guarantees in life!
    

> BP's first responsibilty is to the stockholders, not the employees.

  You're right, but you're ignoring the fact that one of the most
  valuable assets any company has is its people. When a company
  forgets this fact, they often have a tendency to fail (and,
  in failing, they fail to reward the stock holders).

  I also hope you are sufficiently honest with yourself that you
  continue to hold your Libertarian views when you're the one
  being walked out of here.

                                   Atlant

    Yes, BP's first responsibility is to the stockholders.
    
    Does this responsibility negate the possibililty of his treating
    the employees with dignity?
    
    I can fulfill my responsibilities, and still allow those who work
    with me and for me to maintain their dignity.  
    					
                                        andrew

    re. 12
    
    Yes, I have been TFSOd from a company before.  I made it into an
    opportunity for change and growth.  I am much better off because of it.
    
    re. 13
    
    It sounds like you really want to equate "dignity" with some kind of
    "job guarantee".  What did you expect BP to do?  Ask for a written
    guarantee from Quantum that they would not get rid of any DECies for 6
    months, 12 months, 10 years, forever.  Perhaps you think Quantum should
    get rid of the long time Quantum employees before any of the new DEC
    arrivals.  Maybe you think BP should run their business for them, tell
    them what to do.  I am sure that Quantum would have agreed to job
    guarantees for the DECies, and then lowered the offering price by a few
    hundred million, thus screwing the stockholders.
    
    

    
    re .11 
    
    Ben Franklin said it best:
    
    "The only guarantee in life is death and taxes."

.14>                  What did you expect BP to do?  Ask for a written
.14>    guarantee from Quantum that they would not get rid of any DECies for 6
.14>    months, 12 months...
    
    I would expect something of the kind only if said [ex]DECies were
    were not offred TFSO as an alternative to Quantum employment.
    
    IFF said [ex]DECies were told to work for Quantum or quit without TFSO,
    and IFF the alleged mass layoff from Quantum of said [ex]DECies did
    indeed take place, this could get to be a very interesting string.
    

re Note 3659.11 by MIMS::SANDERS_J:

>     This is not a socialist country and this should not be a "socialist
>     company".
  
        You seem to have bought into some ideology that teaches that
        only socialists care for workers.

        It ain't so.

        Bob

    
    		Let me rephrase my earlier comment regarding layoffs
    		being "well communicated". It WAS well communicated
    		that the layoffs were coming.
    
    		What was not communicated was who would actually be "let
    		go". Digital had a slightly modified method of occasionly 
    		pre-notifying those who were at risk.
    
    		The people that I spoke with had no idea that it was
    		coming...

    
>    IFF said [ex]DECies were told to work for Quantum or quit without TFSO,


Most of the [ex]DECies who went to Quantum went there under these
circumstances. If you were on the Quantum list, you either took the job, 
hit the street without a package, or worked your way onto the Digital list.

Chris

    The way I heard it was that if you took the offer to go to Quantum, you
    were guaranteed that if they laid you off, the package you got would be
    at least as good as the one Digital was offering at the time of the
    sale of the division.

    i have a former engineer there who made the "cut". he also stated that
    Q's package is better than Digital's...
    
    the termination exercise was very uncerimonious. you can argue the
    ethics forever. as far a pre-notification very few companies (it's
    rare) practice this for some very obvious reasons.

    
    I heard that they were chopping heads at the management level and
    hiring at the manufacturing level (machine operators, technicians,
    etc). 
    
    Steve B.
    

>    The way I heard it was that if you took the offer to go to Quantum, you
>    were guaranteed that if they laid you off, the package you got would be
>    at least as good as the one Digital was offering at the time of the
>    sale of the division.

I don't know about a 'guarantee', but this thread was mentioned repeatedly
to those involved in the transfer. This, of course, has nothing to do with
your choices before transferring to Quantum, which was what I was referring
to.

Chris

    Anyone have some numbers?  How many people were transferred/hired in
    the transition and how many were just let go?

>    Anyone have some numbers?
    
    Aw, gee.  Don't you know it's uninformed speculation that makes
    notesfiles great?
    
    
    ;-)  ;-)  ;-)
    
    
    -M(u)D

    From the 2/14/95 issue of Financial World, pg. 14:
    
    "Is the party about to end for disk-drive makers?   ...there are signs 
    that the industry could be peaking and heading down...
    
    "Paine Webber rec'ds only Seagate...there are signs of on oversupply
    coming soon...
    
    "Quantum expanded capacity by at least 30% at a time when some expect
    last year's astounding growth in pc shipments to moderate somewhat.
    
    "Investors are getting out of Quantum...who still hasn't successfully
    integrated it acquistion of Digital Equipment's money-losing data
    storage business."

    What I have heard is that Quantum cut 45 people in SHR.  I know that 5
    of them were from the Facilities group.  I also know that at least 4
    people were hit from Finance.  I also heard rumblings that all of Bill
    Lowe's direct reports were cut.  I have also seen a big add the the
    paper stating that Quantum is hiring.
    
    Nancy

Full page ad in 2-5-95 Boston Glob

All technical/production/engieering positions

    Heard from an ex-Deccie at Quantum that they cut 1% of the workforce
    accross the country. Mainly indirect labour.
    
    Charles

    My neighbor (engineer who went to Quantum in the move) said they laid
    off 138 former DECcies out of a transfer poopulation of about 5000.
    

    re. 26
    
    I would have to say that BP was brilliant if he was able to sell a
    money losing business for big bucks at the top of a market cycle. 
    Probably got top dollar.  If the market is now going to contract some,
    the price and the deal (number of DECies who went over) would probably
    be less.  Maybe BP did everyone, except Quantum, a favor.
    
    Just a different slant!
    

RE:                  <<< Note 3659.31 by MIMS::SANDERS_J >>>
     
>>    I would have to say that BP was brilliant if he was able to sell a
>>    money losing business for big bucks at the top of a market cycle. 
>>    Probably got top dollar. 

     No way. "Bottom dollar" is a more appropriate description.  However,
     it was probably a good idea to get rid of it.  It just would have
     been nice to get a better price.

                                       Greg

    re. 32
    
    Bet he got more than he would get now.

	re a few back.

   Were did you get the idea that storage was a money loosing business? At the
time it was sold, storage was one of the few businesses we had that was making
money. Why would Quantum want to buy a business that was loosing money?


Keith

Re: Ads proclaiming to hire....

Didn't Digital have ads to hire people during the largest of downsizing?
And wasn't it in here that people speculated that it is a ploy to let 
investors and the public think that things are okay on the inside?
I can publicize a job and use the resumes to heat my home (if I had a
wood stove).

Now, I'm not saying that's what's happening.  The rumors in here conflict
so wildly.  The Financial world tidbits should be of more concern, though.

MM

    ANYONE have some facts here?  Like how many people went with the deal
    and how many of them just got dropped?
    
    

>   Were did you get the idea that storage was a money loosing business? At the
>time it was sold, storage was one of the few businesses we had that was making
>money. Why would Quantum want to buy a business that was loosing money?

Quantum did not buy all of Storage, they bought basically three of the five
businesses. 

Tapes and Opticals is a business with pretty good margins but I don't know if
they were making money or not.

Hard Disks is a low margin business that was losing large amounts of money
due to the massive investment in offshore manufacturing capacity.

Heads is a low margin business that was always teetering between making and
losing money. Quantum could not get enough heads from other manufacturers to 
support their disk manufacturing so they were very interested in acquiring a 
heads manufacturing business for themselves. 

Back on the Digital side, Subsystems is making money. VIIS is poised to make
massive amounts of money if and when products start delivering in volume.

As always, IMO

Chris

    Clearly the only true "facts" will come from Quantum officials, if at
    all. So isn't .30 good enough for you?
    
    md

    re .34 in re to .26
    
    Standard analyst jabber. Q bought D, D's feet stink & stench sells, Q
    is D.
    
    
    Call it rush logic: get me to a convenient conclusion and don't bother
    me with either logic or details. And besides, it looks REAL good in
    print; those crisp, pithy, short sentences carry a certain authority in
    their comfortable oblivion to qualifications and refinements. Syntax
    follows sense. They are to ethos and nous what an eviction notice is to
    poetry, and require the same expertise.
    
    Same problem when you try to get a job after DEC - guilt by	
    association. 
    
    Now, let's see, there are by my count 2 rat holes in this reply even
    if I point out right here that the "r" isn't capitalized....
    
    bk

    
    	I think Mr. Kelsey is having a particularily bad day.

    
>>    	I think Mr. Kelsey is having a particularily bad day.

     ...but with a particularly clear view of the facts.

                                      Greg

RE: .37

>> VIIS is poised to make massive amounts of money if and when 
>> products start delivering in volume.

What is VIIS?

Thanks,
Laura

> What is VIIS?
    
    
     Video Interactive Information Systems
    
      Also known as Video On Demand (VOD).
    
            
                            Rich

    re .40
    
    point well taken. remind me not to note in the 48 hour window before
    FT1 is released....
    
    bk

    
    Interesting follow-up on this. I receive a monthly newsletter
    from Standard & Poor's (via Fidelity). This month they have a few
    paragraphs on Quantum. It includes:
    
    "However, following soaring sales and operating profits in the fiscal
     year that ended March 1995, earnings in the first half of fiscal 1996
     fell 61%, dispite a 38% increase in sales. Weaker-than-expected
     sales and high manufacturing costs at Quantum's high-capacity
     drive segment (acquired from Digital Equipment last year) were to
     blame.
     The company is taking action to restructure its high capacity 
     operations..."
    
    					Ed
    
    

    Re .45 Gee, it would certainly appear that Bob Palmer got us out of
    that business just in the nick of time. Disk drive prices have fallen
    like a rock over the last year. I would imagine that the profit margin
    on them has fallen just as drastically. What a great business NOT to be
    in!
    
    Harry
    

    
    
    yah, disk drives and PCs... bad place to be, no profit at all.
    we're waiting for the other foot to drop.  Anybody remember
    Enrico's goals when he joined us in Feb 93?
    
    gb
     

    
    	Someone asked me about the fate of Quantum, especially people who
    	used to work with us who are now working for Quantum.
    
    	Does anyone have any news of layoffs, and who would be involved?
    
    	Thanks for any info.
    

    Last week, the Worcestor MA newspaper ran a story about layoffs at
    Quantum not affecting Shrewsbury employees, then ran a correction a
    day-or-so later that said Shrewsbury is affected.
    
    Mark