Conference 7.286::digital

Re -1.0
>>    "Yes, I am aware that Digital sells PCs and notebook computers.  But
>>    those computers have not not been evaluated by the key trade
>>    publications.  Obviously Digital is not a serious contender in the PC
>>    market.

>> Where did we go wrong ?  

By not getting enough coverage in the key trade publications...

>    "Yes, I am aware that Digital sells PCs and notebook computers.  But
>    those computers have not not been evaluated by the key trade
>    publications.  Obviously Digital is not a serious contender in the PC
>    market."
>    
>    Where'd we go wrong, folks?
 
      Look back through this or through some of the PC Notes conferences
    (eg IBMPC-94, DECSTATION etc) for comments on our *repeated* failures to
    get new systems well reviewed in trade mags. Digital has at various times
    either failed to send a system for review at all, sent one in too late,
    or sent an under-specified system (eg single processor, minimum memory
    vs. multi-processor, fully configured) that performed poorly against
    the opposition. Although our systems turn up more often now in reviews,
    there are still plenty which seem to include a machine from every other
    major PC maker and several minor ones, but not us.
    
      Our systems tend to be on the expensive side; they may give better
    price/performance, but what good is that unless the extra performance
    is needed? Technofreaks may want the latest, greatest machine whatever
    the cost, but the more business oriented buyers are liable to specify
    the capabilities required, then pick the cheapest PC which can meet
    them, and seems to have reasonably reliable support.
    
      Additionally, until a couple of years ago all our systems were
    badged from other vendors (our notebooks still are). This may be a
    cheaper way to get into the market, but it also means that it is easier
    to get out of it, which smacks of 'lack of commitment'. Not only that,
    but it means that you will always be behind the competition with new
    products, and your support can suffer. DEC PC support people have at
    times been reduced to referring users to Tandy or whoever to deal with
    technical problems or to obtain upgrades/spares; we have been unable to
    get the information/parts ourselves! We recently had some 40 DECpc
    425SLC's sitting in the repair centre awaiting parts; some had been
    there for months, because AST could (or would) not supply spares.
    
      I have in front of me the September edition of PCLAN, a UK magazine
    aimed at users and buyers of networking equipment, with a 'buyers
    guide' review of Pentium fileservers from HP, Viglen, Dell, Digital,
    Olivetti, Compaq and IBM. The best buy was the HP, with the Dell highly
    reccommended. I'm not going to type it all in, but here are some
    relevant quotes:
    
    "Digital XL Server 560
    
    Never having tested a Digital server before we were extremely
    interested to see what the XL Server 560 would be like. In terms of
    build quality and overall design we were to be disappointed. This is
    another traditional tower system...."
    
    "  The DEC has got some nice ideas (drive positioning) and some really
    bad ones - the naff security door - but overall gives the impression of
    being the product of some clone PC maker, not a company with Digital's
    history. It is also at 7,080 pounds, the second most expensive server
    under test (the IBM was the most expensive - Ken) and to be quite
    honest this price seems difficult to justify. Maybe Digital's server
    R&D efforts are too focussed on the Alpha? Who knows."
    
    " ..(the HP) has an extremely keen base configuration price of 5,445
    pounds. If you get a chance to lok at a Netserver in the flesh you will
    be slightly puzzled as to how HP can produce a build quality like this
    at such a low proce.
      The Highly Recommended award goes to the Dell SP590 which won the
    1-2-3 and Wordperfect tests outright and comes in at 4,938 pounds but
    does not have quite the build quality of the HP."
    
      You can argue until the cows come home about how fair or otherwise
    the tests were in this or other reviews, and whether they were
    comparing apples and cheese. The fact is that few buyers will have the
    time, inclination or facilities to go out and test all the likely
    machines on the market, and many will rely on such reviews to at least
    screen out the less suitable systems and leave them with a shortlist
    from which they will choose what they want. If our products do not
    appear, or appear with a price tag 20-40% higher than nearly as good,
    or better, performing systems, we won't get a look in.
    
    Ken 

    Re service.
    
    	Digital is now providing Dell warranty service and we are working
    with Compaq to do the same at key sites.
    
    
    Brian V
    

    re .3, At least in the US, MCS only provides Dell warranty service on
    their File Servers. We don't (yet) provide all of their warranty
    service.
    
    Harry
    

    Get a copy of PC Computing Magazine, June 1994 and review it with  him. They
    rated the "Best 200" PC Products. 
    
    BEST 486/33: DECpc LPx 4333dx
    ------------             
    Comments:
                 PRICE: "Agressively prices...low end of the price range"       
                
                 WINDOWS PERFORMANCE:" Fastest system we tested..."
                  
                 CPU PERFORMANCE: "A screamer no matter which way you slice
                                   it..."
                         
                 DISK PERFORMANCE: "...Loca-bus IDE would make it unstoppable"
    
                 MECHANICAL DESIGN: "Plenty of slots, bays, and cache-all
                                     in the right places. One of our highest 
                                     scorers in mechanical design."
    
                 OVERALL: "Great price, killer service and support"
    
                 
    BEST 486/66: DECpc LPx 466d2
    -----------
    
    Comments:
    
                 PRICE: "For $2,248, the DECpc LPx 466d2 is full-featured
                         and backed by sterling service and support"
    
                 MECHANICAL DESIGN: "All of the upgrade options are done
                                     right-including a ZIF socket."
    
                 OVERALL: "Rock-bottom price; high-end service and
                           dependable accessible support."
     

	re: .5

	don't know if that would be to helpful since both those products
	have been end-of-life'd (actually all LPx and LPv and their
	relatvies)...presumably they are all suceeded by the Celebris line...

	_kelley

Even the cheapest Celebris is too expensive to be a replacement for the
low end of the LPv line.  But for the "middle" of the line, they're 
excellent contenders.  I'm eagerly awaiting the reviews (as well as the
delivery of the Celebris 590FP I ordered for myself.)

				Steve

    Well I'd love to change the mind of a popular lecturer to business
    leaders.  He attracts principals with imminent decisions to make.  I
    will suggest reading the June '94 PC Week article for corporate
    credibility (he subscribes).  I'll follow that up with a PC Catalog,
    and an invitation to call 1-800-DIGITAL to see just how easy it is to
    configure a system.
    
    And yes, his application suite *is* cpu performance intensive...
    
    /steve

re Note 3461.0 by THEWAV::GASSNER:

>     	"Buy only from the following vendors"
>     
>     		DELL
>     		COMPAQ
>     		IBM
  
        In the business section of USA Today sometime early last week
        there was a short item saying that HP had replaced Dell as
        the preferred choice of business customers for personal
        computers.  At the end of the item they gave the new ranking,
        which started out:  HP, Digital, Dell.

        Bob

        In the business section of USA Today sometime early last week
>        there was a short item saying that HP had replaced Dell as
>        the preferred choice of business customers for personal
>        computers.  At the end of the item they gave the new ranking,
>        which started out:  HP, Digital, Dell.
    
    Correct, per JD Powers.
    
    Mark.

    You want a good review ? Put an add in the rag, and pay for good
    placement.
    
    My experience with trade mags in the Digital (DEC) field indicates this
    is the way it works. From what I hear it is the same for cameras and so on.
    
    They will say it ain't so, but from my experience it is.
    
    							Derek.

Well, we're certainly putting a lot of ads in the US magazines.  Every
magazine I open (and not just trade rags) has a Celebris ad.  The PC 
magazines also have a one or two-page printer ad.  We haven't lately (but
used to) run those multi-page insert ads that most of the other "big names"
do.  

				Steve

I'm surprised that we don't advertise in Windows magazine.  Or am I the only
subscriber? :-)


Bruce

re: Windows magazine

I just read 3460.25.  I assume we'll advertise heavily, for the next several 
months, at least.

Bruce

    PC magazine of Sept 27 carries a review of all Pentium 90Mhz systems
    and notably absent was our Digital Pentium. 
    Once again, my customer (a global account) called me in and asked for
    an explanation......something along the lines of "is everyone in
    Digital marketing brain dead or what ???"
    How can these situations continue to happen over and over and over and
    over again ???
    

>something along the lines of "is everyone in
>Digital marketing brain dead or what ???
	
	it occurs to me that it must be the people outside of marketing
that are brain dead.  otherwise, there is no way that we'd put up with
the nothing that we get

    "You'll note that some major vendors are not represented in this
    roundup - most notably Compaq and IBM, whose Pentium/90 systems have
    been delayed while the companies design their own motherboards
    and chip sets." [p114]
    
    It's possible we opted out knowing that the Celebris models were
    coming.  The XL line hasn't done too well in reviews and is overpriced.
    
    				Steve

    
    	Haven't the magazines got some sort of major bias against DIGITAL? 
    That is the impression on the right side of the pond.
    
    				Malcolm.

No, I don't think there's a bias against Digital.  We have pretty much created
our own problems when it comes to bad reviews, etc.

					Steve

re: bias in trade magazines ...

Someone I used to work with speculated that the review
space dedicated to particular vendors was somehow related
to the vendors' advertising budgets with that publication.
They went to far to say that since Digital didn't not 
really advertise in the trade magazines, that we probably
wouldn't get much space in those mags, and the space we
got wouldn't be all that great.

fwiw,

- Tom