Conference 7.286::digital

You can buy VMS source code LISTINGS on CD for about 2K. I'm not sure, but
I believe you have to also have a VMS license. In the old days V2,3,4 you
could buy a source kit for VMS that were actual build kits that would let
you recreate the current version yourself. These kits were quite expensive,
around $20K. They contained all of the libraries and cpompilers needed to
do a build. Most customers did not want to actually build VMS, just look how
certain things were done. The build kits were then made into listing kits that
contain the compiler output listings and link maps from a build. 

You could, if you are really determined, edit the listing file and extract the
source code out for rebuilding. Some folks have done this, but it is very
time consuming. Also, you may just waste alot of time since there are libraries
that some of VMS pieces are linked against that are not part of the distributed
system.

I have not heard of anyone buying source for other things, such as layered
products. But, one never knows theses days.....

-TomR-

    Sale of source code is a decision made on a product-by-product
    basis.  Most layered products don't sell source listings nor code.
    I'm not sure if VMS even sells code anymore, just "censored"
    listings.
    
    					Steve

    have them identify the problem as reguards to our "source" then only
    provide them with a listing of the area of the code in question...
    
    this assumes they can identify the problem, if they can't they are only
    fishing...

    Having a VMS Source listing set, does not give the right to see the
    souece of, say, RDB, etc.
    

    I assume that you are writing code for a customer under contract.  If
    that's the case, then the contract should stipulate whether the source
    code belongs to Digital or to the customer.
    
    Mark

    Don't even think of doing this on your own.  Unless we offer a
    "source kit", sources are not available.
    
    If you're having a problem with a product, contact that product's
    development group for assistance.
    
    					Steve

    Check with Legal, etc.  Some customers *do* want (and get) some
    arrangement whereby sources to a product are escrowed somewhere, in
    case Digital goes belly-up or the <your-favorite-regulatory-agency>
    decides they want to examine the first character of every line in the
    source code for politically-insensitive acrostics.

    I found QB-001AB-E8 on AQS at $1935.00.  It's description is
    "VMS source lsts & Lic CDROM".  You will need a signed Source
    Code License.
    
    For more info please call 1-800-DEC-SALE.  I have not processed
    an order for one in years.  (I don't know what product you were
    interested in either.)
    

I think that's just the censored source listings.  I don't think we've
made a real source kit (that contains compilable source) for years.

					Steve

    The product in question is a standard product and not a custom
    product that was done for a Customer.  Many times we do Custom work
    and part of the contract is we give the Customer the code that we
    wrote specifically for him.  That is ok.  But I have a bad feeling
    about giving any Customer source code and listing for any of our
    products.  How do we support this?  They could make changes and we will
    never know it.  It is also like opening up your dirty laundry, having
    somebody indicating,  well this section could have a potential problem, 
    DEC you need to rewrite this section.  Your code is poorly commented,
    etc.
    
    Dave

The last compilable source kit that we produced for OpenVMS was for V5.4.  I
was the guy who produced it.  Some files needed to be censored, but were
replaced with object files.  Everything should be buildable, but it's NOT easy
and not guaranteed, as per the source code license agreement.

The person to contact is Tim Ellison.  He's looking into source kit
requirements beyond V5.4.

j.

 
 Since the issue of source code was raised in this note, I'd like to add an
 FYI:  Anyone with questions about the policy or customer requirements for      
 ULTRIX or DEC OSF/1 source code can contact the USG Source Licensing Manager   
 on SMURF::LICENSE.


 Karren Tinius
 USG Source Licensing Manager

RE: .0, .10

Standard operating procedure is that we don't sell or give away the 
source code for any of our software products.  Some products, such as 
OpenVMS, sell listings kits for reference purposes.

You should try to find out what the customer wants the sources for.  
Given the state of DEC these days, they may be satisfied to have the 
sources placed in escrow so that they get them if DEC goes belly-up.  
It may also be that they really want the sources to do active 
development on them or some such thing.

It's possible to arrange for either of those things, but it is done 
on a case-by-case basis.  A good first contact would be the product 
manager or engineering development manager for the product in 
question.

--PSW

    
    some software vendors make available "obfuscated source"
    kits which allow recompilation/relinking but encode the
    symbols, making development impossible.    
    

    re: .13
    
    I disagree...in the business that .0 is in we do a lot of projects
    where the customer pays for and get all code developed by us..it's
    their code they paid for us to develop it and they maintain it....
    
    I think .o is refering to a situation where we did this and some of
    our code interfaces to other DEC source code that isn't available to
    customers...
    

RE: .15

That's contract consulting work; the results are not DEC software 
products, which is what I was talking about in .13.

Regardless, the advice about who to contact about making arrangements 
for release or escrow of source code still stands.

--PSW

A small point:

There are RARE instances of local contract work turning into products.

I believe the PAMS/DECMessageQ product is such an example.

Grahame

The original customer for whom PAMS was developed in 1985 got the source code to
the first version.  The remaining 100 customers who bought PAMS before it
achieved corporate "producthood" in 1991 only got objects and executables.

A descendant of the the original 1985 code ran the corporate product gauntlet
in 1991 and became DECmessageQ.

Walter Stutzman
DmQ Engineering

Not to mention ALL-IN-1 ....

    and Linkworks...