Conference 7.286::digital

    Excessively "cool" here in AKO1 too...

    Hi,
    
    Here at MKO2 I find the center of the building very cool but where I
    sit, near the some windows, it is comfortable (thank goodness). Perhaps
    a more efficient AC could do better, but would probably cost $$$?
    
    Linda

Air conditioning - oh the luxury of it all, I dream of air conditioning.

Here, in winter it's too cold and in summer it's too hot... ;^(

    Unplug all those computers that are generating the heat and we could
    save twice as much.
    

    
    ......re. last time some fool did an unplug because it was too HOT....
    all the friggin systems went down and we were screwed.....
    
    horneT
    

"Balancing" an AC system is one of the most difficult things to do.  Some
areas get colder than others, and in an open environment like most of our
facilities, it's hard to do much about it.

Try complaining to your facilities people and see what they say.

					Steve

    Steve:
    
    Applies everywhere...at home, I'm always turning the AC on, the wife
    off.  At church, half the people'd be sweating, the other half
    shivering.
    
    Best thing is to find a happy medium 72 degrees, and tell everyone else
    to layoff the complaining.

Don't know if this is still current or not...

Used to be to dehumidify the air, you had to chill it below the dew point,
(to get the water vapor to turn to liquid), then heat the air back up
to the desired temperature.

I.e. the *HIGHER* you set the thermostat, the *MORE* energy you use...

		Joe

    I was teaching HVAC in a university before.  The building central air 
    conditioning is working this way:
    
    1. Pump air and cool down to the lowest temperature available 45-50F
    
    2. Send the air to every floor via duct
    
    3. Thermostat control the "HEATER" in the duct/outlet to heat the air up
       to the comfortable temperature.
    
    Thus, raise the temperature will cost more not less.
    
    How stupid it is!  So what is the best solution?
    
    1. With a big office building complex, dig a big underground water
       reservoir.
    
    2. Use the water to pre-heat the air in winter so the water temperature 
       will be lower and lower until the winter is over.
    
    3. Use the ice-cold underground water to pre-cool the air in the
       summer so the water termperature will be higher and higher to
       be used for winter recycling again.
    
    In Northeast area, the total savings can achievie to 50% of the annual
    heating-cooling bill.  Those savings can cover the cost to create the
    undergrond pool.
    
    	This is not cost effective for residential homes.  Don't try this
    for your house.  You don't gain that much.  You better just check with
    the nearby nuclear power plants to see if they can give you "free"
    heating water during the winter.

I once complained that it was too cold in a ZKO notes file, and a
facilities person was very concerned, and proved that the temp in my
office as really something reasonable like 75 degrees.  It feels
colder than that to me, but at least I can put on a sweat shirt.

Also, our facilities have regular people complaining about too hot/cold
(both at the same time) and can rarely make everyone happy.  I was fairly
impressed at the level of concern I was seeing in the guy about my complaint!

Charlie

>I once complained that it was too cold in a ZKO notes file

Wow!  When did we add virtual reality support to NOTES?

Maybe if they moved the notes server to a nice little Alpha-based
machine, the file would be a little warmer?

    
    re: .7
    
    >Best thing is to find a happy medium 72 degrees, and tell everyone else
    >to layoff the complaining.
    
    The correct term is "downsize the complaining"; we don't use the "L"
    word around here.
    

    Hi All,

    Air conditioning !!! Well here in Australia we have to put those hats
    on with corks hanging of the string to keep the flies away, when it's
    too hot meaning +40c and the windows are kept open.
    
    During winter when the fly season is over meaning it's a cold 39c we
    get to close the windows and sit in the comfort of the steamy
    atmosphere.
    
    Aren't you lucky out there you have air conditioning !!!!
    
    Apart from the above Aussie fairy tail story we have one of the most
    advanced buildings in the country.  I have always found it to be very
    comfortable dispite the food in the cafe.
    
    Regards,
    
    Sunil

    
    Here in Frankfurt it's hitting 36/37 (thats the mid 90's for you people
    stateside) regularly, there is no breeze, cloud cover that makes it
    VERY sticky, no fans and no air-conditioning.
    
    So, if you don't want it, ship it over here !
         
    
    Nigel

    
    
    Last week it was 42 degrees C in Malakoff (France)
    With some customer trainings ...

    last year we had 1 day of sunshine !!!!  I think
    
     SQF Jambo #1

    re .14

    >Here in Frankfurt it's hitting 36/37 (thats the mid 90's for you people
    
    Nigel, you forgot to mention that these are the OUTside temperatures,
    in here it's even worse!!

    >VERY sticky, no fans and no air-conditioning.

    And not even a ventilating system at the "old" building at FRS. (it was
    built in 1985!)

    Yesterday it was so hot, I had to buy me a new dry shirt during
    lunch break! This is no joke!

    Felix

    Well up here at ASO we did that two years ago. Now we sweat in our
    offices because our "comfort zones" have been adjusted to save money.
    In the winter we're cold too.
    
    dave

>                      <<< Note 3228.9 by NYOSS1::JAUNG >>>
>    1. Pump air and cool down to the lowest temperature available 45-50F
>    2. Send the air to every floor via duct
>    3. Thermostat control the "HEATER" in the duct/outlet to heat the air up
>       to the comfortable temperature.

  Do we use this system in any of Digital's New England facilities? It sounds
inefficient to me, compared to regulating temp via air flow (more air flow to
make it cooler, etc.)
    
>    2. Use the water to pre-heat the air in winter so the water temperature 
>      will be lower and lower until the winter is over.
>    3. Use the ice-cold underground water to pre-cool the air in the
>       summer...
>    In Northeast area, the total savings can achievie to 50% of the annual
>   heating-cooling bill.  Those savings can cover the cost to create the
>   undergrond pool.

  I first heard of this system 18 years ago, when the U.S. was gung-ho about
saving energy. The problem is that there is a huge capital investment and some
maintenance expense. It apparently is not practical everywhere, because it's
rarely done in New England.
  I have an idea for saving on A/C expense, which is to design computers (and
everything else that goes into a computer room) to run at a max temp of 100 F
(instead of 85 F or so) and let the computer room get hot. Of course, the 
operators and their terminals would have to be in a separate, 75 F room.

    
    RE: aren't you lucky out there you have air-conditioning.
    
    You bet! 
    
    Try my cube, 21 c (65 F) on sunny days and 20 if it is pouring
    outside. Even my backside is freezed at times......
                             

    
    	At least turn off your monitors when you are not using them -
    lunchbreaks, overnight/weekends.
    
    	That way, you don't shut down any systems 'cos only the display
    part is off and the display part is the part that produces the most
    heat usually.
    
    				Malcolm.

    re:.21
    
    	<<At least turn of your monitors when you are not using them >>
    
    	You mean you get monitors ...... we only got terminals ....
    excellent in winter for keeping warm ... especially th VT220's
    
    	Bob

    re: the pool of water underground idea
    
    It sounds impractical in New England, where the bedrock is normally
    about a foot underground, and they often have to blast just to dig a
    house basement.  It would be difficult to impossible to put one of
    these in under an existing building.
    
    --bonnie
    

    Ground water and thermal mass (dirt) heat exchangers are very practical 
    for smaller buildings and homes.  There is usually a loop of 2" PVC
    down a well or buried below the frost line with a heat transfer fluid
    flowing through it - the differential between the air temperature and
    the thermal mass is used by the heat exchanger to provide heat in
    winter and cooling in summer.  With this system you can achieve 72-74
    degrees F almost year round.  Unfortunately, this technology does not
    scale well and is harder to implement in facilities like those Digital
    occupies.
    
    

    re .20
    
    20 C is 68 degrees F
    21 C is 70 F (rounding up)....not that cold.
    
    

about 15 degrees cooler than DECpark II then? .

    SHR3 has such a heat/cooling exchange system under it's foundations.
    It has proven helpful in energy cost reductions. By mid Febuary, it's
    "rock bed" is cold, it works much better in the summer! 
    
    
    SHR Energy team