Conference 7.286::digital

    Are Alpha PCs in the PC Direct catalog?
    
    			Alfred

	Yes they are..

	FWIW, the XL system can be upgraded to an Alpha later in '94.

							mike

    The other mail order people would probably get you the PC at the price
    you paid as an employee with 2-3 day delivery. Not weeks. 
    
    Customers (internal & external) need/demand quick delivery.
    
    SOS. If it ain't a VAX, you're 'gonna wait.
    
    BTW: Enjoy your new PC! (when you get it)
    

	RE: .3

	That totally depends on what you order. I have been told that
	Gateway Pentium PCI systems are taking upwards of 6-8 weeks for
	delivery. My boss ordered a system from them a few months ago
	and got quoted a 3 week delivery. 6 weeks later it arrived. So,
	it depends on what you ordered. Myself, I'm happy with 2 weeks
	on a system in high demand.

	>>    BTW: Enjoy your new PC! (when you get it)

	I will. thanks,

						mike

    Are there active matrix color laptops with PCMCIA & built-in pointing
    devices on sale?  I'm in the market & would LOVE to buy a DIGITAL
    laptop.
    

    An ANALOG laptop would be so much more unique, though.

    Open it up in a meeting ... start wiring those op-amps together on the
    patch panel ... mutter stuff about Fourier analysis ...

    
    Also, keep in mind that expectations of reliability are very low for
    some mail order systems. I forget the brand, but I think it began with a G,
    which users in a PC magazine study reported 100% failure rate within the 
    first year (!). They also reported amongst the highest satisfaction with 
    their systems (I the conclusion was that the price accounted for the
    vast majority of the satisfaction rating). Another article which looked 
    at a DECpc said the construction was so sturdy that it was overkill for 
    the PC market. Myself, I'd wait a few weeks for {Digital, HP, Apple} 
    levels of design quality and reliability. Especially now that we 
    make our own PCs.
    
    erik

    For laptops, I can't see brand loyalty anymore than desktop units.
    Apple (in my opinion) has the best design with the wristpad and
    trackball and someone recently announced a PC laptop that cloned that.
    
    I once had a 320 from DEC that I "gave away" and went to a Powerbook
    primarily because the screen was (much) easier to read, it would not
    lose the mouse pointer on the screen, and the keyboard/trackball was
    *so* much easier to work with.
    
    I think people purchase a laptop because they want convenience and they
    choose based on convenience features. At least in my case, the 2nd time
    around, this was the primary criteria.

re: .7

What actually happened was that Gateway sold a very large number of systems
to a company.  They had several motherboards fail and Gateway suspected that
they had received a bad batch of motherboards.  Therefore, Gateway offered to
replace ALL motherboards for the customer to avoid any possible future
problems.

The magazine that did the reliability report explained what had happened in
the fine print but they still chose to report this as a 100% failure rate. 
In my book, I would call it 100% customer support.  (And 100% lousy
journalism).


 - Ken  (NOT a Gateway customer, but still tired of hearing this
         mis-information repeated as fact)

Can you tell me the basic info about this PC? And the price?

Raj

Re: .10

Basic and more info in the GIADEV::DECPC_ENG conference (a repository of
PC product specs).

Discussions in STOWOA::PCPROD_INFO and also GIADEV::DECSTATION.

U.S. pricing in VTX PRICE.

...petri

The NOTED::IBMPC-94 conference has some details on Gateway and other
vendors...  press <KP7> to add to your notebook. DECcies that are buying
non-DEC PCs often report there experiences there.

When in that conference, there are many 'canned' topics... use this
command to find them:
        
        Notes> DIR/TITLE=OFFICIAL

Or, for a specific vendor:
        
        Notes> DIR/TITLE=GATEWAY

There is also a NOTED::IBMPC-93 conference that is now closed. Look
through there as well.

Lee

    How does one go about getting/ordering a PC BY DEC Catalog?

    Well, I'd try by calling 1-800-PCBYDEC and asking for one. 
    
    		Alfred

re .9:

A failure is a failure even if the manufacturer is nice enough
to replace the dead board. 

At least potential buyers of such systems should know that batches
of bad motherboards in customer PC's happen. Wouldn't you
want to know about it?

The magazine report about failure rates is consistent with reports 
I've heard from owners of such systems.

    erik

    If you buy DEC you may want to shop around with in DEC.  I just purchased 
    a 535mB SCSI disk drive through EPP.  The list price for the PC version 
    FR-PCXAR-AH was $1,099.  However, you can get the exact same drive 
    under the RZ25L part number for a list price of $775.  With a non-PC 
    product discount of 40% that made the price $465.  The PC version would 
    have cost me $879. Furthermore the RZ disks carry a 5 year warranty
    while the PC disks carry a 3 year warranty.  I believe you will see 
    similar price differences on all the SCSI disks.  Another place to look 
    is in the back of PC Magazine or the Computer Shopper, there are dealers 
    carrying DEC disk drives under the DSPxxxx part number also for much 
    cheaper than the 20% off PC prices.

    The only drawback I know of to the RZ version of the disk is possibly 
    not getting the correct mounting brackets.  For the $400+ price
    difference I can buy plenty of mounting brackets.
    
    /Bob

    
    
    		Re:.16 bob , Now there's a man who knows how to milk
    	the system. Question is , how DOES the system get so hosed-up
    	with prices like this ?? Parts is parts and they should have
    	similar price tags across the products, but they don't. The
    	major difference being the brackets, as Bob said, maybe a 
    	variance of $10.00.  The qualification of the hardware may
    	be more costly on some products, and the support of drivers
    	that change with each new Revision of OS, or controller modules.
    	But the drive is still the same. Our systems seem to be non-
    	competetive as well.........
    
    				Pablo
    

    The same situation existed with at least one monitor.
    
    It was cheaper to order a VRC16 that the PC equivalent.
    (But apparently they shut that door recently...)
    
    Dave

    Re: Gateway PCs
    
    We have a Gateway 486 33DX system at home. Have had it for over a year
    with not one problem to report. Great machine. We would have gotten a
    DEC PC but they were too expensive.
    
    DEbbie
    

Re: .18

And this has been the case for a while. I remember some 6-7 years ago
a colleague discovering that if he wanted an RD54 disk, it was cheaper
to buy a MicroVAX 2000 (CPU, memory, VT220 console, RD54) than just
the RD54 alone.

...petri

    Hmmmm, so if I buy a Jensen running VMS or OSF, it'll be 40% off,
    whereas if I buy a Jensen running WNT it's only 20% off?  - I'd hope
    the powers that be will come up with a plan that 'splits the
    difference', and gives us 30% off on everything.
    
    Or better yet, 50%.... (yeah, I know, dream on...) 

        Yea ... Now here's an Employee Discount Deal of the Month...

        I purchased the LA95 at Lechmere for $199.98 and they added
        the Color on Command Kit for $0.01 for a total of $199.99.
        I checked with EPP and they quoted me a price of $255 for the
        LA95 and $44 for the Color on Command Kit for a total of $299.

        Boy am I glad I get an employee discount! Now I can purchase the
        exact same product with an employee DISCOUNT direct from the
        manufacturer for only a 50% premium above what my friends can
        get it for ???

        To top this off there's money to be made...
        Digital has as their inventory cost for these two pieces $223.95.
        Perhaps Digital should buy a bunch of them from Lechmere for
        $199.99 and save some purchasin dollars.  Then they can sell them
        to us for $255.

    
    re.22     That is a sad story!!! I thought I'd heard it all...
              When will this EPP madness end? Hopefully before we're
              all out of work...
    
              /Charlie

    Well, Lechmere has regular equipment sales, EPP has too few of them.
    
    But that was a good price.