T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
2859.1 | | NYAAPS::CORBISHLEY | David Corbishley 323-4376 | Tue Jan 18 1994 16:40 | 2 |
| Page 307 in the phone book, also available in PS format on the network
some where.
|
2859.2 | NEST::ORDER | NEST::DACRI | | Tue Jan 18 1994 18:43 | 3 |
| You can order them from the warehouse in Northboro Ma. Send orders to:
NEST::ORDER or @NRO Part Number EF-A0843-50. You can also call
Publishing & Circulation Services Help Desk: DTN 234-4429.
|
2859.3 | VTX AMTABLES | DELNI::WHEELER | Chickens have no bums | Tue Jan 18 1994 21:32 | 5 |
|
Online:
$VTX AMTABLES
Option 5 Mail Reports/Fiscal Calendar
|
2859.4 | Lack of Enterprise Integration | ULYSSE::FINKA | | Tue Jan 25 1994 14:09 | 25 |
2859.5 | .4 requires application software | MUZICK::WARNER | It's only work if they make you do it | Tue Jan 25 1994 14:16 | 4 |
| That's assuming you have POLYCENTER Scheduler installed (or the older
DECscheduler).
-Ross (tech writer for POLYCENTER Scheduler)
|
2859.6 | It disappeared! | USHS01::HARDMAN | Massive Action = Massive Results | Tue Jan 25 1994 17:16 | 6 |
| re .4 Awesome. Now, how do I get it to pause on each screen so I can
read it before it goes by? Even wimpy little DOS lets me do that sort
of thing with ease. :-)
Harry
|
2859.7 | | MUZICK::WARNER | It's only work if they make you do it | Tue Jan 25 1994 17:34 | 3 |
| Did you try Hold Screen (F1)
???
|
2859.8 | Other symptoms | ULYSSE::FINKA | | Wed Jan 26 1994 08:01 | 24 |
| .5 to .7 are other proves of lack of Enterprise Integration. In such a case the
poor design (so the people, so us) of software systems is responsible.
.5 apparently requires a specific disproportionate installation as regards this
simple business problem. Yet the added-value logic to build the fiscal calendar
is a matter of 100 lines of code.
.6 VMS DCL user interface is not user-friendly. For instance there are many
options to the $ TYPE command, however the most useful one /SCROLL is missing.
These are minor details which for sure affect customer satisfaction and explain
why people for instance prefer other software products.
.7 is a wrong fix to a problem which should have never existed.
You can also try :
$ SCHEDULER SHOW FISCAL_YEAR 1994/OUTPUT=FY1994.LIS
$ TYPE/PAGE FY1994.LIS
Same conclusion :
If nothing changes, delivering real solutions may just be words...
Regards,
Jean
|
2859.9 | | SUBURB::FRENCHS | Semper in excernere | Wed Jan 26 1994 10:42 | 8 |
| Rathole...
I am note sure what you mean by /Scroll for the Type command but /page
works well for me. That one holds the output at the end of each page
until you hit return.
Simon
|
2859.10 | | MUZICK::WARNER | It's only work if they make you do it | Wed Jan 26 1994 12:26 | 16 |
|
>>> .7 is a wrong fix to a problem which should have never existed.
Hmmm, seems a little harsh to me. Try SHOW QUEUE or any other VMS
command that shows a big gob of stuff, and see what happens. Not fair
to pick on the Scheduler (which is one of the top 10 of Digital
products)!
BTW, Scheduler allows users with privs to redefine the fiscal calendar,
so there's really no guarantee that you're looking at Digital's fiscal
calendar when you use the command SCHEDULE SHOW FISCAL. (However, on a
production system at Digital, it is most likely Digital's fiscal
calendar.)
-Ross (Scheduler tech writer)
|
2859.11 | | BSS::CODE3::BANKS | Not in SYNC -> SUNK | Wed Jan 26 1994 13:22 | 10 |
| Re: <<< Note 2859.4 by ULYSSE::FINKA >>>
>You can also try from a VMS system :
>
>$ SCHEDULE SHOW FISCAL_YEAR 1994
But that doesn't show holidays. So it's really only half a calendar. Or
perhaps it's designed so people unwittingly work holidyas? :-)
- David
|
2859.12 | | AXEL::FOLEY | Rebel without a Clue | Wed Jan 26 1994 13:50 | 10 |
| >>.6 VMS DCL user interface is not user-friendly.
I certainly hope you don't think a Unix systems command
interface is more user-friendly. At least DCL is somewhat
consistent and based on real words like TYPE and SHOW.
DCL ain't perfect but it's alot better than other
command line interfaces.
mike
|
2859.13 | egocentricity alert | SMURF::WALTERS | | Wed Jan 26 1994 14:13 | 6 |
| .12
Unless you're one of the billions of people who do not speak English.
If you don't speak English, UNIX (TM) is probably more user-friendly
than DCL. Frightening Eh? ;-)
|
2859.14 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Jan 26 1994 14:46 | 3 |
| re .13:
In what language does "grep" mean search?
|
2859.15 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest? | Wed Jan 26 1994 14:50 | 6 |
|
>In what language does "grep" mean search?
UNIX and related dialects.
Alfred
|
2859.16 | exi | SALEM::GAGER | Swap Read Error-You loose your mind | Wed Jan 26 1994 14:52 | 4 |
| RE: .15
I believe that the reference was to a language other than a
programming language.
|
2859.17 | the mome raths outgrepped? | SMURF::WALTERS | | Wed Jan 26 1994 16:31 | 13 |
|
It's the fact that grep does not mean anything that may give it an
advantage over VMS. Where a programming language emulates
the syntax of a particular natural language, it may cause difficulties
for users who do not use that particular language. As examples: the
noun-verb-object ordering of English, the forming of plurals by adding
"s" and negation by adding "no". VAX/VMS and DCL are very difficult to
translate into local languages. UNIX is largely symbolic. Where UNIX
falls down is it's use of mnemonics like "m" for modify.
C
|
2859.18 | | MU::PORTER | page in transition | Wed Jan 26 1994 18:27 | 14 |
| My mind sometimes makes me type "SEARCH" when I mean "DIRECTORY".
This is because I'm thinking along the lines of "let me look
for that file", and since "search" is a verb, it seems to
spring to the fingers more readily than "directory", since despite
all evidence to the contrary, I still believe the lie that
DCL commands are all verbs.
By contrast, I can't imagine getting confused over "grep" :-)
So I think a reasonable argument could be made against
use of English words...
[English speaker for 36 or more years, VMS user for 12 years]
|
2859.19 | | SPECXN::WITHERS | Bob Withers | Thu Jan 27 1994 01:28 | 34 |
| Continuing the command discussion 8-)
No offense, Mike, but when I want to cancel a print job, I don't want to stop
queue, or more recently, delete/entry. I don't care what my entry is or even
what an entry is! As for the consistency aspect, how come it is "SHOW ENTRY"
but "DELETE/ENTRY" and don't you dare get the space and slash reversed!
IMNSHO, the DCL interface is horrendous and should have been scrapped a loooong
time ago. Worse yet, it has propogated into manging DECWindows interfaces in
an inconsistent style.
At least, when I type "command -h" on U*X or "command/?" on MSDOS, it doesn't
clear my bloody screen!
Give me the interface I had on TOPS-20 or RSTS V5 anyday.
BobW
>================================================================================
>Note 2859.12 FY94 Fiscal Calendar for Digital 12 of 16
>AXEL::FOLEY "Rebel without a Clue" 10 lines 26-JAN-1994 10:50
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>.6 VMS DCL user interface is not user-friendly.
>
> I certainly hope you don't think a Unix systems command
> interface is more user-friendly. At least DCL is somewhat
> consistent and based on real words like TYPE and SHOW.
>
> DCL ain't perfect but it's alot better than other
> command line interfaces.
>
> mike
>
|
2859.20 | awk! I've been grep'd | SLOVAX::THOMSON | , Mark DTN 544-3195 | Thu Jan 27 1994 01:38 | 9 |
| re: .17
>> It's the fact that grep does not mean anything ...
Actually, in typical computerese fashion, "grep" is a four-letter
acronym for gLOBAL rEGULAR eXPRESSION pARSER, indicative that the
pattern for which you are searching can be specified in full pattern
matching syntax (a rEGULAR eXPRESSION).
|
2859.21 | | AXEL::FOLEY | Rebel without a Clue | Thu Jan 27 1994 02:18 | 25 |
| RE: .19
The only reason that things like SHOW ENTRY and DEL/ENTRY got
screwed up is because, IMHO, the "importance" of consistancy
with regard to VMS and DCL was at an all-time low a few
years ago. Even the exhaulted "it has to be a verb" rule was
bypassed, and bypassed I might add, by some groups willing to
be a pain in the ass and push till some said it wasn't worth
it.
DCL is still better, IMHO, than most of the other command
line interfaces. Rumour even had it recently that someone
(company or person, I don't know) was looking to do a native
Windows NT version of DCL as part of a porting effort to
move something from VMS to Windows NT.
DCL isn't perfect and I've already said that.. It's still
pretty good tho. And if Dave Cantor had been given DCL to
work on/own when he was here, it would have gotten consistent,
provided he got his way. But Dave is dealing backjack in Conn.
now and DCL is the furthest thing from his concern.
mike
(don't ask me to remember who's and when's, I can't remember that much!)
|
2859.22 | ls, vlp, ... | PASTIS::MONAHAN | humanity is a trojan horse | Thu Jan 27 1994 07:33 | 3 |
| I was going to suggest that even if all DCL commands were not
verbs, and even if they were all "English only", at least they were
pronounceable. Then I remembered "CC" ;-)
|
2859.23 | | FORTY2::SHIPMAN | MOG | Thu Jan 27 1994 12:08 | 7 |
| I'm not normally one to complain about the lack of a :-), I can't stand them
myself, but I do hope nobody takes .17 seriously.
Let's all use APL as a CLI, shall we? Then nobody has an unfair advantage.
Because nobody has a chance of understanding the damn stuff.
Nick
|
2859.24 | thanks for the supporting evidence | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Jan 27 1994 12:58 | 9 |
|
.23
You mean you require the presence of a :-) symbol to be absolutely certain
of the meaning of my note, in spite of the fact that we seem to share a
common language?
Colin
|
2859.25 | Hnady DCL tip | MU::PORTER | page in transition | Thu Jan 27 1994 12:58 | 8 |
| I've just realised how to remember the DCL command you need. Simply
think of the exact opposite, and there's your command.
Want to restore some files from tape? The command is "backup".
Want to send a message to logged-in users? The command is "reply".
:
|
2859.26 | works all sorts of ways | CVG::THOMPSON | Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest? | Thu Jan 27 1994 13:08 | 4 |
| RE: .25 And the corresponding clue for UNIX is to think of a word
that you think will do it and remove all the vowels.
Alfred
|
2859.27 | | DRDAN::KALIKOW | | Thu Jan 27 1994 13:22 | 2 |
| re .26 you forgot the rot-13 trick after yours. Works every time for me!
|
2859.28 | | FORTY2::SHIPMAN | MOG | Thu Jan 27 1994 15:47 | 9 |
| re .24:
No, I don't need it. But it suddenly struck me that somebody might, and oh,
the cold chills up'n'down my spine... I've seen stupider arguments acted on,
and had to code around the awful results.
By the way, if you're from the USA, we only appear to share a common language.
Nick
|
2859.29 | | METSNY::francus | Mets in '94 | Thu Jan 27 1994 15:55 | 6 |
| minor nit
g/re/p
Global/Regular Expression/Print
|
2859.30 | | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Jan 27 1994 18:05 | 14 |
|
The argument put forward in .17 simply states that designing an
interface based on natural language rules is not good design. It
makes the product harder to use if you do not know the rules,
and it prevents *us* from easily localising the product.
You may think this stupid, but it's also in our own guidelines for
designing international products. The examples cited are specifically
dealt with in section 4 of the Software I18N handbook.
regards,
Colin
|
2859.31 | kindred spirits | CSOADM::ROTH | NRA membership: 800-368-5714 | Thu Jan 27 1994 20:11 | 6 |
| RE: a few back
'CC' as the VMS DCL verb to invoke the 'C' compiler is no more cryptic
than the 'C' language itself.
Lee
|
2859.32 | | ULYSSE::FINKA | | Fri Jan 28 1994 07:51 | 31 |
2859.33 | | STAR::VANDENHEUVEL | Will work for money | Fri Jan 28 1994 14:59 | 17 |
2859.34 | Status quo | DECC::AMARTIN | Alan H. Martin | Sat Feb 12 1994 18:11 | 5 |
| You know you're on VMS when you see pause-at-end-of-page designed into half the
applications instead of the base O/S ...
... and the users believe the deficiency is in the rest of the applications.
/AHM
|
2859.35 | The knights who say "NIH"? | VMSSPT::STOA::CURTIS | Dick "Aristotle" Curtis | Sun Feb 13 1994 13:13 | 5 |
| .34:
And the pauses count precisely 24 lines/page, of course.
Dick
|
2859.36 | Starting to plan ahead: FY95 calendar needed | SSGV01::CHALMERS | More power! | Mon Feb 21 1994 13:37 | 7 |
| At the risk of starting yet another rathole, does anyone know where a
fiscal calendar for FY95 can be found? I've tried VTX AMTABLES, using
FISCAL.095 as the report name, but it came back as 'unavailable'.
Thanks in advance.
Freddie
|
2859.37 | to save opening another note I'll enter this here | SSMPRD::FSPAIN | I'm the King of Wishful Thinking | Fri Jun 10 1994 14:00 | 6 |
| can anyone supply a .ps file of the FY1995 calendar either as a reply
here or direct to my account listed above .....
thx in advance for your help
Feargal
|
2859.38 | | XCUSME::HATCH | On the cutting edge of obsolescence | Fri Jun 10 1994 16:56 | 1 |
| see .3 in this note.
|