Conference 7.286::digital

    
    
    What did he say?

    "Let them ride Cadillacs ..."

"We must control costs."

    
    perhaps the hotel or airline recognised that he's a VP of a large
    company and travels a lot, and arranged it without his asking?
    
    How about if we concentrate on our jobs and less on others, that would
    probably save everybody looking over their shoulder before making the
    teenyist decision (yellow cab or white limo, osf or vax, etc etc)
    
    Simon

    Apparently he also uses a limo to commute to work. 
    
    John

    
    
    		Go ahead, Simon...I appreciate your sanity in this
    	matter, but these days cost-cutting IS our jobs, each and
    	everyone of us. I guess if I were offered free Limo service
    	I'd certainly enjoy the ride. However, I don't drink 
    	Champagne on a Beer budget. There is a car dealer here in
    	Albuquerque that actually uses a stretch Limo to drop off
    	it's Service customers at the customers destination. Talk
    	about service , almost makes me want to go out and buy a
    	(insert dealers car here.) NOT.
    
    		Point being that I'd prefer to see performance than
    	looks. I'd really like to know what he had to say as well,
    	but it didn't sound like good news coming to me, so I figured
    	I needed a good laugh more.....to each their own.
    
    				Pablo
    

    
    Can't he carpool in Palmer's Porsche?
    
    Seems we've come a long way from KO's Pinto.
    

     re .6
    
    
    pfffffffffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttp! 8-) Simon
    
    Perhaps given the earlier roasting for a VP that didn't attend a
    meeting, he waited 20 mins for a taxi and decided to take what he
    could, regardless of opinion.
    
    I really don't think these trial by notes contribute anything to our
    well being, they just let the usual people trot out the usual "wasn't it
    great" reminisces(sp!) and the usual "this place ain't fair anymore!".
    
    Simon

    
    
    re .5
    
    Doubt it.  I'm sure the Digital person/meeting planner who coordinated
    this trip had it scheduled for him.  
    
    re .7
    
    which is fine......if it's coming out of his pocket...but you and 
    I both know that it's not.

    re. all
    
    It definitely came out of Digital's pocket - a co-worker saw the
    charge.
    
    

	BP was here (Alpharetta, GA.) in June.  A big black limo was in front
	of the lobby.  At least he didn't use a helicopter.

Paul

    BP is the CEO of a major corporation. I,personally,am glad he didn't
    show up in a "sub-compact". The trade mags would have a "field-day"
    with *that*. You know,"Digital doing so bad..."
    
    Ken

    Oh, I kinda like the thought of these guys in a pinto.
    I bet they booked their flights 21 days in advance and stayed at 
    MOTEL ROACH like the rest of us and took a cut in pay too.
    
    BAD DAY.
    
    Reis

 I don't think they should drive in a Pinto...But when KO came
 to the Rochester, NY office, where I once dwelled, it was quite okay for the 
 Sales DM to pick him up at the airport in a Taurus.  If you are going to
 practice elitism, at least park the limo out of the way.  My God, we
 can't even buy pens these days.  I liked this company a lot more before
 it went Wall Street.  And by the way, are you any better off now than
 you were, oh say, fifeteen months ago?

 Paul

    Jeez, folks, if one of Digital's top executives is able to get a couple
    extra hours work in because they are being driven in a limo I think the
    money is well spent.  Give the guy the benefit of the doubt, unless
    you've got reason to do otherwise!
    

	At the risk of shooting off my other foot, I decline comment.

Paul

    Not to justify the expense of a limo but...Limos just aren't the big
    deal they used to be. A limo used to be a RARE sight. Now they seem to
    be on every street corner. Sometimes a stretch limo is provided (by
    travel agents and other service companies) to impress the person riding
    it that they are important customers.  
    
    I do think though that if they MUST have a driver so that they can work
    in the car, then there is no reason they can't be driven in something a
    bit more conservative. 
    
    Steve B.

    .0
    
    The money spent on the limo ride was probably equal to the amount of
    time/$ spent by Digital employees discussing this topic.   Maybe he should
    walk the walk....     maybe not its not my place to judge him.  He has 
    gotten where he is by making good business decisions and hopefully these 
    practices will turn this company around.      
    
    If you have an issue with him why don't you simply take it to him (ED) 
    instead of discussing it in this forum?
    

    Round trip ground transport choices when I have visited a customer in
    lower Manhattan:

    Rental		Cab		Limo
    ------		---		----
    ~$40-50?+parking	$50-60		$30

    The limo wins hands down. I'm not sure about rental rates in NYC, but I
    imagine they are high. And heaven forbid I should have to drive around
    there myself, I would probably kill somebody (me!). I also imagine
    parking is not the bargain it is in Boston 8^).

    Of course, the limo I'm talking about here is not a stretch (not even
    tinted windows or a bar in the back, what a shame!), but you get the
    idea. Like someone said, limos ain't what they used to be. They gotta
    compete, too.

    And even if you think someone could run out to the airport to pick him
    up, mileage, parking, and tolls can add up to be as much as the limo. I
    know Ken was a down-home kinda guy, but I don't mind keeping the
    corporate image spiffy as long as we don't get carried away. Let's just
    keep it balanced in the perceptions of the troops as well as of the rest
    of the world.

    Is .7 true? 

    STOP
    
    If .0 wants to make a point,  why doesn't he just simply call up
    Ed and make his point?     
    
    Enough said.  
    

    He may have gotten to the airport and asked if the limo had
    Bud Light!
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Dr. Galakiewitz, I presume?
    
    My .02,
    
    Edwin

    SCREW the @#!!%$#@! Limo!!!!!! More importantly, as alluded to in
    the original note, what did Ed say?  What issues did he discuss?
    
    By the way, what kind of tip did he give the driver?   
    
    
    
    
    

    Frankly I don't care what mode of transportation Lucente or BP, or *
    took to get to point B.  People who spend a good portion of their day
    micromanaging VP's cost our bottom line much more than a limo.
    
    /d.c.

    What did he say....
    
    The audience was mostly Sales and Sales Support...I'll paraphrase as
    much as I can remember.  
    
    He said ....
    
    ...Digital Consulting is to leverage DIGITAL products...(that's funny,
    huh?  I've been telling customers the opposite for a couple years!)
    
    ...Our company products are not complicated...all we have are three
    operating systems, a couple of databases and some client/server
    applications...Kids out of college could do your job.... (This was, of
    course, in reference to a more technical sales force....being in Sales
    Support, this definitely boost my ego!)  (He basically was telling the
    Sales Force to quit whining about their jobs...)
    
    Question:  What are you doing about multiple sales rep on the account
    and competing (ie. Digital Consulting and MCS)...
    Response: I don't care if there are 15 sales reps on the account, as
    long as they listen to the Account Manager....
    
    ...Our systems administratively are terrible...we know they are
    terrible and they will be fixed...but, don't expect to see any improvement
    before calendar year 1995....
    
    ...We (the SLT) have a list of 52 top projects in this company...(he
    didn't express what they were, just that the list exists)...that are
    top priorities to the SLT....
    
    ...We will be hiring 10-30% more sales folks....
    
    Quality of products was discussed.
    Our poor numbers were discussed. 
    

    .29 - you don't understand  
    
    Maybe we can end this subject once and for all - 
    
    What did Ed say when you confronted him with your observation about
    VPs, white limos  and cost cutting? 

    Re: .29
    
    	Thanks for getting to the point and posting information on Ed's
    remarks. Most helpful!

>People who spend a good portion of their day
>    micromanaging VP's cost our bottom line much more than a limo.

 Sometimes it's important to say, "Hey everybody, the Emperor's BUCK NAKED!!!"

 This argument about "micromanaging the VP's bottom line" is incredibly ironic;
if they didn't spend so much effort nickel and diming us with degraded telecom,
reduced vacation accrual, extended virtual office and other inanities, the serfs
might not be so anal about it. Don't kid yourself- there's still plenty of fat
left in this organization, much of it at the upper levels. Telling us to avert
our eyes to their self-indulgence while they continue to slice benefits from
out total compensation package and degrade our working environment will not
be met with silent acquiescence. Some of us are stockholders, a minor point 
which you seem to forget.

    RE:29  
    
    Ed Lucente's comment about "new college grads could do your job"
    reminded me of what a customer told a very seasoned, battle scarred
    sales executive; "I can't wait for the day that they take you off
    this account.  If and when DEC sends some green college grad in here
    with his Brooks Brothers suit.....we'll suck the meat right off his
    bones."  I fully agree with bringing in some new blood.  If it is
    done incorrectly, expect to see lots of skeletons populating our
    sales offices.  Like it or not, sales comes down to a dollar and
    cents deal.  At that point in a sale it is no holds barred.  
    Customers will show no compassion to a kid trying to make it in
    sales.  
    
    .33
    
    Again, the limo issue is unimportant.  Has anyone heard how
    these calls made with Ed have gone.  Does he bring something
    to the call besides his lofty title? 

    The thing about EL demanding a limo and driver to go on a sales call
    sounds bogus to me. If somebody has proof of this,it ought to be
    brought up at the next stock-holder's meeting.
    
    Ken

    Re: .32
    
    No one is telling to avert your eyes to anything.  But blaming the
    present SLT, Lucente, et.al., for the "fat" left over from the previous
    regime is ludicrous.  I never saw people get so outraged at the previous
    200 or so VP's who were responsible for the "fat", limos were a minor
    perk to them.  I'd say that the BP regime has dwon from medically
    obese-bordering on death to overweight right now.  You don't create a
    new structure overnight.
    
    What I do expect from people at Lucente's level and above is that they
    can take a limo, be well compensated, but that they be on 24 hour call,
    and produce results within a logical period of time.
    
    /d.c.

    re :35
    
    Not only that but it gets worse.  He actually wanted a black limo.  The
    one that showed up was much too large so he sent it away.  The
    secretary scrambled to find a 'smaller' limo but could only find a
    white one.  Mr. Lucente apparently doesn't like white.  Time was short
    so he went to the meeting.  While he was in the meeting there was a mad
    scramble to locate a black limo which WAS delivered to replace the
    white one.  At the end of the meeting, the black limo carried Mr.
    Lucente away.
    
    Now, how much does THIS cost the corporation?  All this talk about
    perks for VPs is fine and well but it would have been MUCH cheaper to
    ride with the sales rep in the Taurus and talk about the account
    issues!
    
    IMHO
    
    cw

    WHen you arrive a Logan, there's an area marked "Limos" where you
    have a choice of some scruffy multi-passenger vans or some Luxury cars.
    Other options are taxi or a DECwreck. In a very general sense, it would
    seem that the DECwreck option is most cost advantageous Let's consider
    though another requirement other than most cost advantageous.
    
    Digital is coming out of a slump while others in the industry are still
    trying figure how to do that. I can imagine the uncertainty in the
    minds of some of our customers as to whether Digital is a safe
    investment or will we become another Wang. I think little things such
    as Lucente's limo arrival tend to deliver a "message" of confidence and
    also of his relative ability to speak/commit on behalf of the
    Corporation. 
    
    Depending upon the customer or the business circumstance, I would even
    suggest that arrival by chopper (if practical) would have delivered
    an even stronger message of confidence and authority to the customer.
    
    As for white vs. black, the later is definitely more conservative in
    limos (by tradition I suppose). As for DECwreck vs. limo, my Pontiac
    with 90k+ miles and all its shakes and shimmies would have represented
    a risk (breakdown) that I would not have wanted to be responsible for
    had I been the person coordinating the customer visit.

    Re: .38
    
    Most of the replies here were in reference to the Lucente limo arrival 
    at a Digital Site to deliver a less than effervescent message to the
    troops.  He may have a policy of always using limos but I thought that
    the appropriateness in this case was what was being questioned.
    
    How does one determine when we have come out of our slump?
    

    Re .38
    
    	If we are emerging from a slump then we don't need to layoff
    people.  If we are laying off people or intending to layoff people,
    then we are in a slump.  Anyway you slice it, your contention doesn't
    hold water.
    
    Jim Morton

    This string reminds me of a story Ross Perot told of his experience
    during the presidential debates...
    
    It seems that those organizing the debates called him up and wanted to
    know how many limos would be in his entourage so they could plan
    appropriately.  It seems that Bush had 14, Clinton had 12.
    
    Perot's response was that he just figured that he and his campaign
    manager would just fly in pick up a car from Hertz and just drive
    over.

    re .38:
    
    We *lost* eighty three million dollars in Q1 this year, and are likely
    going to lose scores of millions again in Q2 -- if this is coming out
    of a slump, then I'd hate to see what bad times look like.
    
    					andrew

    
    re: .40
    
    Unfortunately, that's not necessarily true.  The decision of
    whether we "need" to lay off people is being made against the
    backdrop of the reigning zeitgeist amongst the captains of
    (American) industry.  Witness Zerox (Xerox?): they just reported
    a 23% earnings gain over the same quarter last year; at the same
    time, they announced the intention of laying off 10K people.
    
    Our corporate leaders are arguing (rightly or wrongly) that to
    compete in the "global" economy, they need to be lean, lean, lean.
    Whether or not that's true remains to be seen.  Welcome to late
    twentieth century capitalism (which is beginning to look more and
    more like late nineteenth century capitalism).
    
    Glenn

    Re: .43
    
    	Can not agree more with you.   It seems that corporations
    (around the globe) are in the lay-off copycat business, these days.
    Earning or loss in not important, it seems that the theme is if
    ABC can lay-off 20K so can we, we want to be leaner than then.
    What about quality, customer satisfaction, flexibility, service
    WHO CARES !!!!!
    
    	In the 80's the Theme was: 'Bigger is better'.   It seems that
    the 90's theme is: 'Small is beautiful'.    How small......time will
    tell.
    

    It's easy to prove you aren't doing anything stupid if everyone else is
    doing it.  That's one reason why it's so easy for high-level managers to 
    decide to lay people off regardless of other reasoning and
    hand-wringing.  They can always prove they did right by pointing to
    their peers.
    
    Steve

re Note 2811.38 by GUCCI::HERB:

>     As for DECwreck vs. limo, my Pontiac
>     with 90k+ miles and all its shakes and shimmies would have represented
>     a risk (breakdown) that I would not have wanted to be responsible for
>     had I been the person coordinating the customer visit.
  
        So it is OK to risk missing a commitment to a customer if you
        have a breakdown with your DECwreck?

        Bob

    American business is currently pursuing the 'Profits without people,
    just perks' mentality...

    Re: .45 (Steve Sherman)
    
    	Absolutely right on the money !!!!
    
    	Theme:
    
    		'If they can do it, so can we'
    
    				NOT !
    
    	Talking about organization that are not sensitive on employees,
    that only say 'employees are our largest, most productive assets' but
    on the other hand (earning, loss or break-even) will terminate the
    'most efficient, most productive, most important assets' north,east,
    south, west without fully evaluating the long term (sometimes short
    term) consequences or not even care if there are consequences at all.
    
    	Prediction:
    
    		Economy will finally start to turn (remember it is only and
    economy cycle - what goes up, must come down and vice-versa) and most
    of the lean-mean american corporations WILL NOT have the manpower
    resources and/or flexibility to react, therefore the situation will
    get even worst.   As I said before......TIME WILL TELL !!!!
    

>    	Prediction:
>    
>    		Economy will finally start to turn (remember it is only and
>    economy cycle - what goes up, must come down and vice-versa) and most
>    of the lean-mean american corporations WILL NOT have the manpower
>    resources and/or flexibility to react, therefore the situation will
>    get even worst.   As I said before......TIME WILL TELL !!!!

With companies wanting to be flexible to react, not wanting to over-commit 
themselves again, and not go through the pain of downsizing, the question 
is:  How prolific will temping and consulting be in the 90's and beyond?

If not already now, strategic human resource management will be big in 
the future.

>If not already now, strategic human resource management will be big in 
>the future.
    
    	I hope this means strategic rather than tactical.
    
    	I know of a DEC internal application that we are having written by
    an outside company because we no longer have the expertise to do it
    in-house. Unfortunately, the external company don't have the expertise
    either, and the project is behind schedule. The external company is
    interviewing TFSOd DEC employees who would be able to do the job, but
    because of the low price they have negociated with DEC for the project
    they can't afford to offer realistic wages. I will be surprised if DEC
    ever gets this application delivered if they don't go to a respectable
    systems integrator company with experience in DEC hardware and
    software.
    
    	So far TFSO has been a lot more tactics than strategy.

    Hmmm -- Don't know if I'm to late for this string.
    
    Limos:  U wanna know about limos -- I went
    to the DECWorld Kabookie dance a few years ago  -- I was apalled -- Outside
     of the trade center there had to be 15-20 limos parked there all day long 
    
    -- I saw people order $135.00 bottles of wine at dinner.  
    
    That was in the days of KO.  And I agree with some of the noters --
    
    Limos aren't the issue.
    
    How we get out of this morass we're in is what's important.  The trip
    to this point in our corporate journey didn't happen overnight -- The
    trip to where we need to be won't happen overnight either.
    
    I have confidence in Lucente and Palmer that they'll get the ship
    pointed in the right direction -- The rest is up to the crew.
    
    Whining about the fact that Lucente pulled up in a limo seems to miss
    the point about what's important.  
    
    IHMO
    
    Dennis
    
    
    N

    re: .52
    
    Read the topic of this notes string and you'll see that your reply
    misses the point also...
    
    cw

    I never realized what people would think about working for DEC and 
    riding in a stretch limo.
    
    Here in southern NH, DEC has a contract with First Class Limo for runs
    between ZKO and Logan.  The cost is $34 per person, and you often share
    the limo with 3 other people who may or may not be DECcies.  
    
    We used to get Hudson Bus Line rides, and I used to get very queasy on
    their buses.  I drove to Logan whenever I could (whenever the trip was
    short enough to get reimbursed).  I especially disliked stopping at 4
    or 5 hotels between ZKO and Logan.  I now get to Logan a lot less
    stressed for a difference of about $15 each way.
    
    It would also be fine with me if it was a comfortable 4 door car rather
    than a stretch limo!
    

Re: .54

Flight Line will pick you up at your door in Nashua and take you to Logan
for the same $34.  I have found them to be utterly reliable.

					Steve