Conference 7.286::digital

    Ken has an office at Stow, so MTS mail to ken olsen @ogo would probably
    get there. 
    
    q
    

Re 2644.0  

>  I have been trying for years to get a PC donated by DIGITAL. local and 
>  corprate brick walls everywhere.

Your local office should have a contact name for Corporate Contributions. If
you have no luck there, drop a mail to Lewis Karabatsos @MSO.  He is in
Corporate Community Relations which is responsible for the Corporate
Contributions activity.  However, if the answer is no, with a good reason,
accept it gracefully and request elsewhere.  The company cannot give every time
it gets a request and there are criteria laid down for donations by Lew's
office.

>  I have been trying to get DIGITAL to be a Corporate sponsor for our
>  upcoming fund raising dinner.  "Dosn't fit our giving catagories".

This does not sound like the kind of activity Digital would be interested in.
Contributions are mainly by equipment allowances.

Shalom
Baruch 

What about GE and all the Consolidated's, the companies Edison founded? Don't
they care about their own founder? I visited his home in Fort Myers this spring,
they seem to be prospering. Have they helped out with his birthplace? I agree,
Edison left us (the *global* us!) with a legacy that has shaped our century, and
it should be commemorated and preserved.

  I agree with -.1. Digital is only peripherally related to Edison, but GE and
may of the largest U.S. electric utilities evolved from companies founded by
Edison. So they are more likely to donate to this project. Also, don't forget
the Japanese. Their electrical industries are almost as indebted to Edison as
the U.S. electrical industry is, and Japanese companies may be more willing to
spend money on things like this.
  I don't know why the Edison birthplace is going broke. If it's because they
don't have enough visitors, it could be because northern Ohio is not a tourist
mecca like Florida is. 
  I wish you luck. I have never been to Ohio, but I would like to see this 
place if I'm passing thru by car, and would not want it to close.

While we're at it, Tesla should get the credit for the power distribution
system... Edison/GE fought hard for direct current, Tesla/Westinghouse
favored alternating current (Tesla invented/developed AC generators
and motors).

As a matter of practicality, alternating current won the battle.

Nearly all power trasmission today is alternating current.

Lee

>Nearly all power trasmission today is alternating current.

Really?  I was reading an article in some soft-tech magazine the other day
about the LA power grid, and while the local transmission was certainly AC,
the long distance grid (the national grid?) was mainly DC.

--Scott

        ref. about electricity being AC or DC.

    i think DC electricity is easier to haul over long distances because it 
    dont loss power and dont need regenerators along the way, while AC losses
    power, this is due to the EM radiation AC electricity generates, (DC
    current dont generate EM radiations ) that is why you see 2 wires on the 
    street to carry AC electricity, on one electricity goes one way, on 
    the other, the other way, this way EM radiation cancel each other out
    from the 2 wires and reduces the loss of the power of transmission.

    but in the final case, both AC and DC are made of the same thing
    and both need a wire to go over. 

    i like electricity, but it is very dangerous, please dont let children
    play around it or with electric equipments, because only like 1 amp.
    can kill a person, so please be very careful.

    \nasser

From Compton's Interactive Encyclopedia:

   Transmission and distribution systems. The electricity generated in the
power plant must be transformed to higher voltages for long-distance
transmission. It is most efficient to use the maximum voltage, especially for
long distances. Modern transmission systems operate at voltages of from 66,000
to 765,000 volts.
   The interconnection of transmission systems forms a so-called power grid,
which permits the interchange of electricity between utilities. A failure in
one part of the system, however, can lead to a power outage for the whole
system unless emergency disconnect devices can be actuated.
   Transmission lines terminate at substations in which the voltage isreduced
to the primary distribution voltage, usually 23,000 volts. This voltage is then
supplied directly to large industrial users or further transformed down to
2,300 or 4,100 volts for local distribution.
   To this point all transmission takes place as three-phase power using four
wires. Residences usually require only lower voltage single-phase power, or one
phase of the three-phase system. Most residential customers are supplied with
220 to 240 volts (nominally 230 volts) using three wires. The secondary winding
of the distribution transformer has a center tap that is usually grounded at
both the transformer and at the customer's service entrance, resulting in a
voltage from the center tap to the end of either winding of 115 volts (see
Transformer). This is the voltage generally used at outlets for small
appliances and lights. Large appliances-such as water heaters, large air
conditioners, and ovens-use 230 volts directly.
   A different distribution system is sometimes used in high-density
residential areas such as New York City, where power is taken directly from a
three-phase system. Here the so-called line-to-line voltage is 208 volts, while
the line-to-neutral voltage is 120 volts. Although most large appliances are
designed for 230 volts, they will work at 208 volts with some loss of
performance.

Whoa, lets get back on subject.


    Without getting bogged down in old stories, both GE and Ohio Edison 
  were approached, and for various reasons, we were turned down.  We are
  trying again.  They are being approached again for this campaign, which 
  is titled "Don't let the lights go out".

    There are a number of Edison sites around the country, the 4 big ones:
1  Fort Myers FLA. is operated by the City of Fort Myers
2  Natl. Historic Site W. Orange NJ is operated by the Park Service (Feds)
3  Edison Institute is operated by Ford Museum/Greenfield Village
4  Edison Birthplace is operated by our Assn. - the ONLY Edison site
     with family involved. 4 Trustees are Great-grand-children.

 All are operated independantly - we have more communication with the 
 Nat.historic Site than any others.  The Nat. Historic Site was put on 
 the ENDANGERED list earlier this year, due to lack of climate control etc.
 This is the site that is under National Park Service control.

    I was under the impression Digital supported community/educational 
  projects that employees were involved in.  I an asking for support for 
  a project that one employee, me, is *VERY* involved in, perserving the 
  home where  "the age of invention started".  As I mentioned before, 
  I am the only local family member in addition to being President of 
  the board, this keeps me quite busy.

  Edison developed the "feeder and main" and parallel circuits with 
  high resistance lamps as a way to distribute power.  I wonder if he 
  preferred DC to AC because he couldn't understand AC.  Remember, he
  went to school 3 months, and was self-taught.  DC you can visualize 
  as a water system.  Water towers as batteries/capacitors, height as
  voltage, pipes as wires, etc.

 Thank you to those who have contacted me offline and the replys online, 
    please keep responding.

Would the folks at Greenfield Village in Dearborn be of any assistance?

Lee

    Quick rathole...
    
    re: .9
                                                   
    > I wonder if he preferred DC to AC because he couldn't understand AC.
    >  Remember, he went to school 3 months, and was self-taught.
                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Actually, he was 'home schooled' primarily by his mother. His learning
    after that, however, could be called 'self taught.'  He is one of many
    outstanding examples used by the home schooling community to show the
    possible results. His intelligence, though unseen by his public school 
    teacher, was quite remarkable. 
    
    The basis for the DC vs AC confrontation appears to have been mostly 
    a question of business and not one of ignorance. The quite studied tone 
    of his private papers at the time contrast greatly with the wild, 
    sensational claims touted in the press.
    
    You have a great deal to be proud of in your ancestor and quite an
    accomplished past to maintain and build upon. No small task. Regardless
    of the results of your current requests, keep up the good work and good
    fortune in your endeavors.
    
    John B.
    (inspired by a never to be forgotten vist to Menlo Park in my youth)
    
                                                                        

>    Actually, he was 'home schooled' primarily by his mother. His learning
>    after that, however, could be called 'self taught.'  He is one of many
>    outstanding examples used by the home schooling community to show the
>    possible results. His intelligence, though unseen by his public school 
>    teacher, was quite remarkable. 

Edison was learning disabled, which is probably why the public schools didn't
know what to do with him.  Like many LD people, he was a brilliant visualizer.
This aspect is discussed in Thomas West's book "In the Mind's Eye."

    
    i think it was Edison who said this if iam not mistaken.

    "genius in 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"

    \nasser

    Attributed to Edison:
    
    Itemized bill:
    
                         Chalk:        .05
    Knowing where to put Chalk:  $9,999.95
    
                    Total Bill: $10,000.00                          
    

    Re DC transmission (modern)
    
    The quarter-wavelength of 60Hz is about 750 miles (from memory).  
    If you send AC over a transmission line that is longer than that, 
    most of the power radiates off into space.
    
    DC transmission was first used on a large scale to bring power from
    hydro generators in the far north of Canada (Hudsons Bay, also, in 
    Siberia I believe), at 700KV or above. This was in the 1960's.
    
    I don't know if DC is used elsewhere in the power grid. 
    
                               

>    Without getting bogged down in old stories, both GE and Ohio Edison 
>  were approached, and for various reasons, we were turned down.  We are
>  trying again.  They are being approached again for this campaign, which 
>  is titled "Don't let the lights go out".

I guess you've been in contact with the media (T.V., newspapers).  Sounds
like a positive human interest story with GE and Ohio Edison playing the
'I-don't-care' roles.  

Hopefully, someone in GE/OE marketing or folks further up in the corporate 
ladder would see it and make amends.  Good luck.

re: .15  - The new power lines that come down from Hydro Quebec,
through New Hampshire to Tewksbury, MA, are running 900KV DC.

Art

    
    To extend this rathole, my understanding is that the Hydro Quebec lines
    are running at 450KV above and below "ground" potential.  You can then
    get 900KV of forcing voltage.  In a DC circuit, power is just
    voltage times current.  You would get close to a megawatt per amp
    carried.  This is an insulation advantage that you do not have with AC
    transmission. But overload protection must be a monster.  With DC, 
    the fault current arc is not naturally extinguished, and you must 
    employ some other means of quenching it.
    
    As I understand it, that was one of the main reasons for the
    Westinghouse AC system's success over Edison's DC system.  You could
    transform it to high voltages easily with the technology of the day,
    minimizing transmission losses, and you could protect against fault 
    currents at the high voltages.

    re: rathole... why not take this topic into it's own place...I think
      it's a good discussion, just somewhere else.
    
    re: Edison, basenote, request for financial assistance from Digital...
      what's the current status??