Conference 7.286::digital

    These should be eliminated
    

    I feel these should be increased. I feel their value goes beyond
    dollars and cents,that they pay big dividends which aren't obvious
    to*some* of us;moreover,if the funding is the issue,my I suggest that
    the cost of desk lamps,monitors,electric staplers,coffee pots,restroom
    lights,parking lot lights,etc.,if only left on when used,would offer
    us a monitary savings to dwarf any club or team subsidy. If your focus
    is on realizing a saving,reducing waste,cutting unnecessary costs....
    ask the janitorial help who see it the way*perhaps*you and I don't,
    can't,won't....but could!
    
                                                 Peace,
                                                 -RAM-

    RE: .2  by TRACTR::MOODY 
    
    >I suggest that the cost of desk lamps,monitors,electric staplers,coffee
    >pots,restroom lights,parking lot lights,etc.,if only left on when
    >used,would offer us a monitary savings to dwarf any club or team subsidy.
    
    I think there's a lot to be said for this, except the parking lot
    lights, which if turned off after, say, midnight, would cause a
    security problem for those who work odd shifts.
    
    As for the rest, MKO has recently installed detector switches for the
    vestibule lighting of restrooms.  There used to be a toggle switch. 
    Now, the light goes off during periods when there is no traffic. 
    Probably not a significant savings in electricity, but a small step in
    the right direction.
    
    A larger savings would be realized if people turned off equipment and
    lights they were not using.  There's no need to leave your desk light
    on all weekend, or even overnight.  Monitors could be turned off over
    the weekend at least.  Just turn them back on Monday morning and by the
    time you've gotten your coffee it will be just as bright as you are.
    
    Last week I helped do an inventory of our groups equipment.  It was
    disconcerting to see how many people who were away on vacation or
    otherwise offsite for an extended period had left monitors and lights
    on in their cubes.  In checking one VT220 that somebody had as a
    terminal in case their workstation went down, I found that it had been
    logged out to the LAT more than three months ago, but had never been
    turned off.  Worse yet, another person who's one week into a three week
    vacation had left their workstation, not just on, but logged in and wide
    open, unpaused or anything.
    
    I would not like to see the formation of a juice squad going around
    unplugging things at night, but if everyone was a little more
    thoughtful about turning things off when not in use, we could indeed
    save significant amounts of money.  If the power usage statistics on
    display in the lobby of ZKO are accurate, they wouldn't need Seabrook
    if we didn't have Spitbrook.
    
    - Dennis Ahern [who's noting in this EINF on a Sunday morning, and might
      otherwise have been in church, but who logged in from home to check the
      results of something he ran last night]  OK, OK, I'm just using that
      as an excuse.  I probably wouldn't have gone to church this morning
      anyway.  ;-)
    

    Whoa there, Dennis...  You saying that HUMANE::DIGITAL is an
    *employee interest* notesfile?  Fwiw, not in mho.
    
    :-)
    

>    I would not like to see the formation of a juice squad going around
>    unplugging things at night, but if everyone was a little more
>    thoughtful about turning things off when not in use, we could indeed
>    save significant amounts of money.  

Based upon what?  

>If the power usage statistics on
>    display in the lobby of ZKO are accurate, they wouldn't need Seabrook
>    if we didn't have Spitbrook.

What stats?  Is what is posted in the lobby the ACTUAL use or an estimate
based on listed power consumption?  How much of that posted usage is for
equipment that CAN be shut off everynight (terminals etc) vs what cannot
(machines in the machine room)?

    
    	Back to the topic at hand.
    
    	I have been a member of the Coed soccer league for about 6 years.
    Digital normally subsidizes about 50% of the cost of running the
    league (referees,supplies,...).   This has supported a league that 
    included from 200 - 300 players per year.
    
    	It is unfortunate that this benefit is under fire.  I believe 
    that the benefits of spending time with co-workers in a non-business 
    situation far outweigh the cost to the corporation.  It has also been
    a great way to stay in shape.
    
    			Just one more benefit slashed,
    
    					DanF
    			

> 	Just one more benefit slashed,

	Correct. And, like the real or proposed cuts in vacation accrual,
	matching gifts, employee-interest notesfiles, tuition reimbursement,
	and wellness centers, let's target something that only some of the
	people use. That way we can play off some of the employees against
	the others to justify our slash and burn policies.

	It is clear that all this cost cutting has turned from the original
	"lets get more efficient" to "lets cut costs anywhere we can,
	whether or not it makes sense."

	Quick - name a benefit that hasn't been cut in the past 18 months.

	Roy

>	Quick - name a benefit that hasn't been cut in the past 18 months.

	Pension benefits for men in the UK

	Heather (who doesn't fall into this category)

    
    Re: .5
    
    The information posted in the ZKO lobby is an actual average monthly
    cost for electricity used at Spitbrook.  It averages over $300K a month
    or nearly $11,000 a day.  There are some monitors and workstations that
    by themselves use more electricity than we use at my house!  In thinking
    about it I realized that someone could make a comfortable living by
    starting a service business of going around ZK after 5:00 turning off
    monitors and desklamps.  After paying for the service Digital would
    still save money.
    
    fwiw,
    Steve
    
    

    	Actually, it's nice to finally see an official announcement of this
    cut since I believe it's been the case since the start of the fiscal
    year. At least I knew the DEC soccer and golf leagues had felt the
    pinch. Looks like it might be in best interest to become a big, fat,
    lazy slob again, unable to move from my desk and workstation, working
    my fingers to the bone for Mother DEC...Yeah, that's the ticket.

    
    What's the beef here???? I am in the field and they cut this stuff
    years ago.

    
    Re: .11
    
    > What's the beef here???? I am in the field and they cut this stuff
    > years ago.
    
    The beef is whether it was/is wise to cut it at all.
    
    Steve
    

A 'little' company called Fujitsu recently announced it would pay all membership
fees at health clubs for their employees.  In addition, if they participated in
an event, such as a bike rally, the company would pay the entry fees.

Sounds like they know something about employee exercise, health, and company
profits.

Bob

    Sheila,
    
        I have been associated with Digital leagues since I began working
    here over 16 years ago, and I believe there is a strong need to
    continue subsidizing these leagues.  I've been an officer in softball,
    golf, bowling and volleyball leagues at different times, and must say
    that there MUST be an outlet for people in today's working environment
    to vent whatever stress and discomfort that arises each day.  
        Digital leagues make it easier for the average person to sign up,
    participate, and establish friendships without the many external
    hassles.  Most folks participate because of a co-worker or employee
    friend who is also participating. This helps to build relationships
    that help build character, team spirit in some cases, and in turn improve
    morale.  So many days are easier to get through knowing there's an 
    activity that follows the working day.
        Today's rising costs also scare away many people and without a
    subsidy the leagues would become extinct.  I can tell you first hand
    that as our golf league president this year we cannot function without
    a subsidy.  There needs to be some incentive to get people's interests
    perked, even if it's only a couple dollars off.  I'm sure the bowling
    leagues feel the same way.
        On behalf of the many leagues here in Salem I'm asking you to
    really take a hard look at this, and don't underestimate what these
    leagues mean to the workforce. 
    
    					Art Mansor
                              

    I've been associated with the Woman's Basketball & Softball Leagues for
    several years. I can understand Digital's need to cut back their
    sponsorship, which they have done over the past few years. 
    It is unfortunate for the leagues that rely heavily on funding due 
    to the nature of  the sport, ie: needing to rent a court or rink etc. 

    Even as an active participant in these leagues, I can not justify
    spending money for players when we don't have enough to support workers.
    
    My hope is that if funding is cut out totally, they will still allow 
    leagues to use Digital property to play sport on, ie: tennis courts, 
    softball fields etc. 
    
    
    Gail

Just last night on the CBS evening news on "Eye on America" the Quaker Oats
company was highlighted as an example of how "larger companies" are expanding
their encouragement of participating in health-promoting programs. 

At Quaker, employees who participate in company-sponsored excercise programs 
are eligible to receive extended benefits such as additional vacation, extra 
life insurance, or even a year-end bonus.  According to the report, Quaker has
recognized the benefit to the company of having more healthy employees. 

Says something when Digital is cutting back on similar benefits...  :-(

-  David

    Dissenting opinion follows:
    
    I pay for all of my outside activities and do not solicit
    Digital's support.  I might not turn it away if it showed
    up :-) but I see no reason that the company should pay
    employees to take good care of themselves -- they should
    be doing that anyway.
    
    Ok, I'll go back into my hole and close the door...
    
    ed

    cut the leagues. I'd rather have the expense money contributing to the
    companies bottom line. It is not available in the field and it is just an
    unfairly distributed perk for those who live in the greater maynard area. 
    Exercise comes from personal motivation. If you are not motivated to 
    execsize and play sports on your own what difference does it make if 
    digital pays or not? I do both and digital pays for neither and I do
    not expect them to.
    

    Earth to New England........Earth to New England.......come in!!!
    
    Out here, over the horizon (MASS. state line) we haven't seen anything
    like sponsored leagues, health centers. We haven't even been able to
    get partial team sponsorship for employees. 
    
    Sorry to here of your *loss*.
    
    Dave Z

    Amen to all those "extraterritorial" replies, i.e., not in the greater
    maynard-marlborough area.  I'm within reach of this geographical sphere
    (you mean that the world doesn't revolve around it?), but I've never
    asked Digital to subsidize my responsibility to keep myself in
    half-decent shape.
    
    I still don't think that it is clear that the company is reviewing
    *all* of it's costs and expenditures.  Now I hope that the end result
    of this review will be that scrapping post-it pads isn't worth it, but
    perhaps that subsidizing a soccer league is.  And don't give me that
    "corporate investment in its' employees health" crap.  When and if you
    get TFSOed let's see you try and gain entrance to a corporate wellness
    center...
    
    /d.c.    

I agree with the previous replys also. I have read and chuckled over
the years as the various activities are discussed by the people in
Mass. The cannobie lake thing etc. Here, in the field...you know the
places where the things that DEC makes are sold? and those services
that we sell are bought? we never see any of this stuff. I once wondered
how we could have a blood drive when most of the people in the office 
are out of the office. 

Fred

    omigosh, 5 consecutive "dump 'em" replies!  I guess GMA hasn't punched
    in yet.
    
    fwiw, I am in the GMA and still think "the leagues" should be self
    supporting.
    
    ed

    I feel so sorry for the long neglected and long suffering "field". 
    It's an on-going passion play as the "field" wrings its hands at the
    center of the universe GMA crowd gets all the perks and all the bennies
    that a worldwide corporation can muster.  
    
    When are you going to wake up?  Working in the GMA, Marlboro and
    Maynard in particular, stinks.  Corporate 'suits' running around
    looking for ways to get in your hair, traffic jams coming in and going
    home, soulless working environments with bad air, high taxes.
    
    You poor "field" person working in, say Memphis, I feel for you.  Your
    $35K goes a lot farther than my $35K.  Working in the GMA is no bargin.
    
    Regards,
    
    Marv
    

    FWIW:  Some of us that work in the exaulted GMA nevertheless commute
    long distances to work and find it inconvenient to participate in
    various leagues and clubs.  So I, for one, won't be affected by
    dropping the subsidies.

  I heard another rumor today that seems to go with this topic. The rumor was
something to the effect that the senior officers were considering withdrawing
use of Digital fields for things like softball because the insurance cost are
too high. 

  NOTE: This rumor has been passed along enough times so that details may be
missing or substantially altered. 

  George 

    Re .23
    
    >When are you going to wake up?
    
    I am quite awake, thank you.
    
    >                                Working in the GMA, Marlboro and
    >Maynard in particular, stinks.  Corporate 'suits' running around
    >looking for ways to get in your hair, 
    
    We have Sales Managers.  We also have the Hierarchy.  I don't think you
    have it any worse then we do.
    
    >                                      traffic jams coming in and going
    >home,
    
    Ever try to drive around Santa Clara or San Francisco at rush hour? 
    I'll take Highway 3 any day!!
    
    >      soulless working environments with bad air,
    
    The environments are identical!  The same 64 square foot cubes,
    unimaginitive decor.  At least your air is invisible.
    
    >                                                   high taxes.
    
    Our tax rates may be lower, but our property value is higher.  And with
    governor Wilson trying to increase sales and income tax.  
    
    Larry
    

     plus in California they have SMOG !! 
    
    here in New Hamshire and mamsmshsustettes we at least dont
    have SMOG and i take clean air over SMOG any day of the year
    if any at that.
    
    and speaking of traffic jam, here a traffic jam is like 10 miles
    stretch, while in California, there traffic jam is like goes
    for hundred miles on end. 
    
    no, i take mammsmshsustststes and new hamshire over california
    any time thank you.
    
    \nasser 
    

	I see my point about playing groups off against each other has been
	born out. The fact is that league/club sponsorship is another
	benefit that looks like it's being cut. For those who will not be
	affected by this (and I won't be affected, since I'm not currently
	in any leagues or clubs), ask yourself which of your benefits will
	be next...
	- Locker and changing facilities for people who exercise at lunch?
	- EAP?
	- Reimbursement accounts?
	- Stock purchase plan?
	- etc...

	Roy

The GMA "sucks" and I feel for every Digit that lives there, having lived
there for a year. I think Digital should move out of New England for all
the reasons already identified as a problem and a few more. i.e. bugs, lousy
weather, bugs, bad pizza, bugs, etc.

I think headquarters should move to a more friendly enviroment and anyone
who wants to can follow.

John I.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

    John, John, John, John, John........
    
    You ONLY lived in GMA for a year... and you feel the way you do...
    
    That's the problem... You have to live there for a lifetime in order to
    feel the way most New Englanders feel about the area.. Most like it
    alot..!
    
    That's not to say Digital shouldn't consider an alternate Corporate
    Headquarters... 
    
    No arguing the bug problem or lousy weather... BUT the pizza.. Well
    that's a different issue.... There are some great pizza places in GMA.
    There are some BAD... BUT lotsa good...!
    
    Maybe Headquarters should be here in Colorado Springs...!
    
    Smile, life's to short..!
    
    Bob G.
    

    
    RE: -1
    
    I was there for 4 (LIFE TIME) years.  Don't forget those black flies.
    And how about the time I burned up 50 miles worth of gas sitting in
    traffic because an 18 wheeler jack-knifed across route 2 in a snow
    storm.
    
    ART
    

Well I don't live in the Greater Maynard area (I did for 6 years, thank you!) 
and I don't belong to any Digital-sponsored organizations.  But I think this is 
just another example of cutting expenses which are already down in the noise
level and aren't going to make any significant difference to the bottom line
but *are* going to take a toll on morale. 

IMHO the focus *has* to shift to increasing revenues.  That's how this company
will turn around.  And I hope it does soon...

-  David

    
    Some real information for the discussion...
    
    Funding for leagues and clubs has already been cut over the years.  It
    used to be real funding but what is left is merely a token so its loss
    might not be a big deal in some cases.  But some leagues that are more
    expensive (golf?,hockey?) might cease to exist.
    
    If Digital eliminates facilities like softball fields that currently
    reside on company property, then these leagues will cease to exist. 
    There is simply no place else to play.  The statement about liability
    costs seems a bit ridiculous IMO.  I'm sure a multi-billion dollar 
    company carries liability insurance anyways.  I doubt we pay more
    because we have 9-10 softball fields.
    
    The worse part about this is the lack of recognition by those at the
    controls that these employee activities (that cost relatively peanuts)
    provide *many* employees with opportunities to meet and socialize with
    other employees in a non-work enviroment.  It is really no different
    than the non-work notes conference issue.  The same benefits to the
    company and employee apply to the leagues.  They are a big part of what
    sets Digital apart from other companies.  It is the things that set
    Digital apart from the pack that will get and keep the best and
    brightest on board to return Digital to profitability.
    

    .33>  It is really no different than the non-work notes conference
    issue.  The same benefits to the company and employee apply to the
    leagues.
    
    Plus, the participants get more physically fit while they (literally!)
    "team-build," rather than more couch-potato-oid.  Said he while sitting
    in his leather easy-chair, noting from home.		            :-)
    

    It is rather strange..... While Digital takes steps to cut these so
    called bennies, due to cost (what ever that is).... Companys like HP
    and others are increasing these activities and facilities. Their
    reasoning is..... 

    	"During these times of cutbacks and layoffs, it is important that
    	our employees have a way to "positively vent" their frustrations."

    If other companys see these things as positive and necessary, WHY is it
    that Digital see them as negative and frivolous?

    How can the costs be so out of line for Digital, and so insignificant
    for these other companys..? 

    I guess I will never understand how this company operates, even after
    12 years....!!!
    
    Just an observation..!
    
    Bob G.
    

    .23 was so amusing, corporate suits, bad air, blah, blah.  If you don't
    like working for Digital in the GMA than I am quite sure that one of
    our TFSOed colleagues would gladly trade places with you.
    
    /d.c.

    	It would be interesting to find out which types of leagues
    get/require the highest amount of corporate funding. I'd have to think
    it would be hockey, basketball, and softball since you need to rent
    ice time, court time, and referees/umpires. The golf leagues would 
    probably cost less since the golfers pay their own greens fees, DEC
    may subsidize in some leagues and mostly contyributes to an outing. The
    same would hold true for the bowling leagues where DEC probably
    contributes for the banquets.

There are formulas for calculating the amount of money that a league was
*eligible* to recieve.  The amount was usually 25-50% of that number.

Bowling and basketball have a hi rate due to facilities rental (basketball also
has officials at $40-50/game).  Hockey ranks right up there I'm sure.  The
softball league I am the treasurer of (which recieved no funding *this* year)
last year recieved $2000, or about $5/employee participating.

I can't see that the bottom line savings would be much more than $250k, and I
honestly feel it's probably closer to $100k.  Of course, all of the support
people from personell have either been TSFO'd or moved on to other positions,
so the infrastructure is not there at this time...

    Pay for Leagues when DECUS funding is being Cut?
    
    Pay for health clubs?
    
    Pay for Team building?
    
    You want a friend ... Get a dog.
    
    You want to team build, go on a salescall with your team, 
    or help them in front of a customer.
    
    You don't sell, help your team to make some more money for 
    the company by being more efficient, suggesting improvements,
    and taking better care of your own little piece of the company,
    or better yet, taking care of a customer.
    
    Companies and Employees are a business arrangement.  
    
    We do the work and get well paid for performing it successfully.
    (If you're not well paid for what you do-- who's fault is that?)
    
    You want to socialize don't ask for the company to pay for it,
    and if you don't like GMA, move. The cost of living is very 
    low in some places and with the money you save -- You could 
    fund your own softball league...
    
    Take away all the perks -- I'll take 10% in cash of the 
    any BENEFITS (after healthcare) that any company would 
    wish to spend on me anytime...
    
    Does someone up in GMA still have a cache of lead-tainted
    bottled water?
    
    Let's get real... Folks are losing their jobs out here and 
    some people are wanting us to fund thier social life...
    
    Get Cable...

    I agree with those who would like to see Digital continue to sport
    clubs and leagues. Bottom line is productivity. Study after study has
    shown that if you have employee activities, you will have heathier
    employees with a greater attendance record,less illness, less major
    illness and much better working atmosphere. You save more in health
    costs than you put out to subsidize your leagues. I would like to see
    it across the board.....for both 'field' and headquarters....not less.
    I would prefer the company to make 10 million a year instead of 12
    million if it means that the workforce is heathy and productive. I am
    truly sorry about those are have been laid off (been there) but that
    should not diminish the company. At this point in the company we need
    to sell more products and to do that we want our employees to be the
    most productive they can be.... I see these activities as a part of
    the equation that will make it all work.
    
    
    diminish the company that is left

    That's just it, though.  Increasing productivity might not be an issue.
    Reducing excess capacity for a shrinking market might be.  Who could
    doubt that Digital wants to get rid of more of its workforce?  Cutting
    back on benefits such as this might be the way to give folks a gentle 
    hint that it's time to go, especially if other companies want them and 
    are willing to entice them with better benefits.
    
    Steve

    re: Note 2621.37 by NACAD::NISKALA
    
    Subsidizing banquets, outings, and such was cut out years ago.
    According to the subsidy rules that came out around '88, the only
    things eligible are equipment, facility rental (on a contractual
    basis, not, say, renting a tennis club for an annual outing), and
    trophies. These effectively put the EMass and So. NH tennis leagues at
    the bottom of the totem pole. With the format of the leagues as they
    are (matches played on mostly public courts with personal equipment),
    trophies are the only thing we can get help with, and at that only 20%
    of up to $400. Fortunately, these leagues are now self-sufficient and
    will not be affected by subsidy cutbacks.
    
    Ken.... 

    
    RE: .39
    
    I wish I could count the number of times I *WAS* able to help a
    customer or get information to do my job becuase I knew the right
    person to call.  And the reason I knew the right person to call was
    from an employee activity such as softball, volleyball, racquetball
    (non-funded), etc.  It is a method of networking and developing contacts, 
    as well as friendships and meeting fellow workers.
    
    I have no problem with paying for the activities I participate in.  As
    has been pointed out, the current level of Digital funding is nearly
    non-existant.  But I do get concerned when I hear that the company may
    drop its support of on-site facilities that cannot be replaced, such as
    softball fields.  Nearly 1000 people participate in softball alone in
    the Mass/Southern NH area alone.  Many employees would be adversely 
    affected for *very* little savings.
    
    Hopefully, management will realize that there *is* a threshold for
    cost-cutting, after which the payback is negative.  I believe some of
    the current proposals being considered have crossed that threshold.
    

    
    
    >the same 64 sq foot cube
    
    oooh rough........we've got 2 people to 96 sq foot cube. But the
    "smurf cube" story is for another day.
    
    I think that the biggest thing I missed this year was getting together
    with a bunch of fellow deccies to play softball and play teams like
    Kaman Science, and Hewelett Packard, and Underwater Connection and
    MCI and GM. All these people were playing FOR THEIR companies. It was a kind
    of inter-company rivalry (my company is better than YOUR company).....
    Some pride. Actual pride in your company.....(try to remember)
    
    We played all right. But we weren't Digital. We were the Blue team. 
    No DIGITAL logo on our shirts (since we had to pay for them ourselves)
    and no DIGITAL spirit. 
    
    We lost every game.
    I s'pose that says it all right there.
    

    re -.1
    >>>We lost every game.
    >>>I s'pose that says it all right there.
    
    At least you were in the game, playing! And trying! Winning isn't
    everything. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Being in the game
    is what is important. Don't equate sports to business, especially the
    business of this company.
    
    -Mike Z.

    
    
    
    re -1
    
    >think positive, feel positive, WIN
    >at least you were in the game, playing! And trying! Winning isn't
    >everything. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
    
    oooh...excuse me while I hoark big wholly chunks  ;-)
    

    When the Senior Management Team cuts expenses by reducing employee
    benefits the only message it sends is that we are continuing down the
    path to oblivion.  Obviously, they are not being open with us, they are
    saying that we are turning things around, but we still need to cut
    another perk or two to save money?  If our Senior Managers have no more
    faith in our future, maybe we should all find jobs elsewhere.  After
    they cut the perks, they cut the pay, cut more jobs and downsize to
    excellence...
    
    If you want me looking confidently and positively to the future, then
    enhance the perks...