Conference 7.286::digital

    
    At home I have THREE computers - a Rainbow, a 286, an old Mac.  All
    of them I got for FREE, practically.  The 286, for example, was for
    dogsitting for somebody's 2-week vacation (a non-Dec friend).  I also
    have 2 free printers, a free DEC modem (and a cheap second-hand Hayes),
    and mucho FREE software, bootlegged and undocumented.  I bet I get a
    free 386 within 2 years.  A free Alpha, by 2000.  In America, if you
    are willing to be late, you can get yesterday's in-thing for a song.
    

    >    Am I the only one who finds this policy moronic and spiteful?
    
    No you are not. I too have a Rainbow at home. It doesn't get much
    use since I bought a 486 system but I could get some more use out
    of it if I could add some memory and/or disk. But it would have to
    be cheap or free to be worth it. I suspect that there are idle memory
    upgrades and disk around Digital I could use.
    
    		Alfred

Re .0:

Just ask to borrow it for home use.  You should be able to keep it at home with
no hassles as long as you work for the company.  The inventory/asset management
hassles which keep you from buying the system or getting it as a gift don't seem
to apply to home loan equipment.
				/AHM

    No, you are not the only one who has a problem with this process.
    	
    I tried to get some components that were excess and being shipped
    to the scrap pile (at that time, in Phoenix, now in New Hampshire?)
    that were sorted so that there were no DEC part numbers on them
    donated to the local college for lab use.  I got it done once, it took an
    act of congress, and was told not to try it again.
    
    This was not a local decision, but rather a corporate one.
    Right now, any scrap components from here in NM gets trucked to
    New England to get crushed.
    
    

    
    i have a pro-350 PeeCee too at home, 5 MB hard disk, 640 K memory
    and Venix (unix flavour) OS inside it.
    
    i tried to sell it for 50 bucks so i can use the table space it is
    taking, but was not lucky, i want to try again sometimes.
    
    .0
    did DEC make Rainbow after or before the Pro-350 PeeCee? 
    i kind'a liked the PRO-350 when i used it , i did not used Rainbow, but
    i did use VAXmate. i like the VAXmate too.
    
    \nasser
    
    

    Old computers and their components, as well as all sorts of other
    interesting obsolete or no-longer-used stuff used to go to Corporate
    Salvage, which used to be in Maynard.  There was some sort of scandal a
    few years ago about the most-useable of the stuff being siphoned off
    and ending up in used-computer warehouses, or even at customer sites
    (same serial numbers as things that were supposedly scrapped, anyhow),
    and the facility was closed down.  (From the dealings I had with Salvage
    when it existed, it wouldn't surprise me too much if the allegations
    were true.)  Now we have the PDC store, which is good if you are looking
    for a sturdy workbench for your basement without paying a fortune for
    it, as I was last weekend (haven't reassembled it yet, but it was
    $25!), but the computer components are all scrapped out instead.  You
    can still get oscilloscopes and various emters, sometimes, though the
    'scopes are no longer $100, which is what I paid for mine (modulo the
    cost of the parts to get it back into working order).  I, too, think
    that I could make better use of a lot of scrapped-out stuff than having
    it crushed for the recycleable metal it's made of, but I guess the
    old scandal caused too much trouble at high levels or something.
    
    /Charlotte 

    Fine. Now please explain how .7 relates to my asking for several
    components to use in my Rainbow. Even if I were dastardly enought to
    try and *sell* them, it seems unlikely that the $25 or so I'd realize
    would jeapordize DEC's revenue stream. This assumes I could *find*
    someone else out there also using a Boat Anchor 100+.
    
    DEC is simply terrified that it might somehow do something _nice_ for
    its employee. Can't have that.
    
    kbs
    
    
    

    ...to get Rainbow pieces.
    
    I had great luck.  Often they will provide a trade-in allowance (on the
    same plan as a car dealer:  You can have the new (&(& for $20,000, or I
    can give you 4,000 for your JJJ and you can get a similarly equipped
    but serial-numbered differently (&(& for $24,000 and the other dealer
    will give you back the full 12,000 purchase price of your JJJ and sell
    the (&(& for a mere 32,000.
    
    The dealer (computer dealer) get's nothing for the Rainbows, and often
    will give them away.  One of mine was even shipped to me by courier
    from 500 miles away! 
    
    Not only will you get hard disks and memories, you'll get a good
    supply of spare parts which are becoming harder to find.
               

    
    I can think of a few reasons:
    
    1.  There is always a risk that scrapped material ends up "for sale"
        somewhere, and:
    
    	o Having written it off and scrapped it, DEC could inadvertantly
          commit some small book-keeping error.
    
    	o DEC does not want to risk creating a black market for scrapped
          parts that might encourage pilfering of and dealing in scrap.
          (as per .7)
    
    	o DEC does not want to "back door support" obsolete products.
          It's expensive and doesn't help us sell new models.
    
    2.  DEC may still be getting some fiscal advantage from the scrap.
    
    	o There may still be some kind of inventory value offsettable
          against corporate taxes.  (a writeoff would not apply
          if the material was not subsequently scrapped.)
    
    	o There may be a contract to supply x quantity of scrap per
          month for precious metal recovery.  (Thar's a motherlode
          in them thar motherboards).
    
    3. The processes in place to manage excess inventory & scrap are probably
       tuned efficiently to getting rid of it en masse.  Generating internal
       requests costs time and money - far more than the part is
       worth.  Too many ad hoc requests and you have a significant overhead.
    
    That's a few reasons why DEC might *appear* to be being mean.  They all
    have a potential -ve revenue impact, could just be good business sense.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    

    re: .8
    
    Everything connected to the scrap and salvage of unused, unwanted, and
    obsolete equipment has been a major headache for the company.
    
    It's just simpler to designate all this stuff for a landfill than deal
    with the problems other replies have mentioned.
    
    Who wants another scandal?

    Re: .8-
    
    >Everything connected to the scrap and salvage of unused, unwanted, and
    >obsolete equipment has been a major headache for the company.
    
    	What's really ironic is that we are being forced to drop
    maintenance contracts at sites ready and willing to continue paying 
    big $ because of non-available/ obsolete parts.
    
    	The site I'm referring to has custom CSS h/w for a realtime system
    which was developed with government funding in the 1970s. They simply
    do not have the resources to upgrade.
    
    	I've suggested that we buy used complete machines while they can
    still be found to continue the contract, but it appears the logistics
    of this is too much despite the pennies-per-pound cost of spare iron.
    The real obstacle is the CSS devices. This stuff was largely hand-made,
    some of it on W series modules with wire wrapped interconnects. We've
    had to repair these to the chip level for years already though, so
    I still consider dropping the contract to be an unnecessary move.
    
    Phil

I believe that there's also been discussion (either in here or in EMPPURPRO)
about some IRS considerations. Apparently if DEC makes some of their used
products directly available to employees, it needs to be treated as income
or a benefit or something or other. I can't recall the specific details.

-Jack

    I think Jack may be right.  We had a "used furniture" sale here in
    Marlboro and I had to sign a paper that essentially says "Digital is
    not in the furniture business."
    
    Mark

>>    I think Jack may be right.  We had a "used furniture" sale here in
>>    Marlboro and I had to sign a paper that essentially says "Digital is
>>    not in the furniture business."
  
    That explains it! If DEC sold obsolete computers, you'd have to sign a
    paper saying that "Digital is not in the computer business"!
    
      
    			8*)

    re: .5 - Rainbows & PROs were made over the same time period, circa
    1983/4/5.  The PRO models were 325, 350, 380. Rainbows were 100 and
    100+. DECmate IIs also came out at this time.

     
           We built the rainbow/pro/decmate boxes here in WFO around
      83-84 till they phased them over to the Far East.A friend here
      bought a top model rainbow thru EPP for $3K+.At the first TFSO
      here people who left could buy a rainbow/pro/decmate for $200
      if a manager signed it off as being that particular persons own
      desktop system.I got two friends to get me a Pro380 and Rainbow
      190 that way.I wish I could get half that for  them now after
      building a 286 clone that'll run rings around either!
    
                                                  John Grabowski WFO
    

    I use my rainbow 100+ ( with my 10mb drive partitioned for CPM and
    DOS) as the base stand for my VAXmate.  Building on the natural
    evolution, I hope to someday have an Alpha PC
    
    Mark
    

re .7:  I remember the early stories about this.  They referred to major
thefts from Digital warehouses.  I don't recall anything aobut its being
thefts of salvaged parts.  And it was acutal theft -- including using
subverted security guards to get physical access -- not misappropriation
of stuff that was destined for landfills.  Who would sneak into a
warehouse to steal salvage?  Are we talking abvout different stories?

	Thanks,
	Larry

Maybe different stories, but the truth is the same.  The people that run
salvage operations don't know what's valuable and what is not.  If you do
the paperwork and send a new Alpha AXP system to salvage, my guess is that
they would destroy it.

Mark

 See topic 1535.  

1535  EMIRFI::SEGAL        16-JUL-1991     0  DEC Lawsuit & FBI
				    Indictment RE: DEC Salvage Scheme

I had it explained to me in some detail a few years ago.  The current publicity
is a separate incident.

What was happening with salvage was that employees could buy things dirt cheap
from them.  They had no way of knowing the good from the bad and sold anything
they got.  Unfortunately some people realized this and shipped perfectly good
items to salvage and then raced over and bought it as it arrived.  So because
of a few bad eggs, it was cheaper and easier to can the whole employee purchase
rather than try and fix the system.

	Dave Brunell

    Re:  .19
    
    "Who would sneak into a warehouse to steal salvage?"
    
    Why, the same bright people paying the rent to store it, that's who!