Conference 7.286::digital

I expect that the moderators will continue to be willing to post anonymous
replies for those who do not (for whatever reason) wish their names known.
I am frankly beyond caring who knows that I've had these problems, but 
I don't expect most people to feel that way.

	Larry

    Larry, though I have no proof, I've felt since its inception that
    the Office of Ethics was just pablum for the masses. Much the 
    same as the "Open door" business. Until I'm shown otherwise my
    perception will remain as it is, poor.
    
    Good luck with your efforts.
    
    Jim C.
    
    

    Assuming that the Office of Ethics is being successful here at Digital,
    how would we know?  Or, if it is failing miserably, how would we know?
    
    Steve

     Everyone probably has doubts about the office of ethics and the open
door process, but I believe that you should give them a chance before 
condemning them.  If they live down to your expectations, then you will
have justification for doubting them.  

     As I am currently finding out, there are still major ethical problems
within Digital.  Whether Digital, as a whole, approves of it, some 
representatives of the corporation have ethical problems.  At least the 
creation of an office of ethics is an attempt at correcting the problem.

     It's effectiveness remains to be seen.

                                       Greg

    My experience with the Ethics Office has been, shall we say, 
    disappointing.
    
    Upon hearing of the new Ethics Office, I brought to it/Win several 
    unresolved problems I had had within the company. Win responded to the
    first by assigning to review my case ... one of the principal people 
    about whom I had brought the complaint. I still have had no response
    regarding the second issue despite repeated calls to the Ethics Office.
    
    Whether by design or ineptitude, this showed me that the Ethics Office
    is of no value in resolving employee issues. What other value it might 
    have I must leave to others to document.
    
    My experience is particularly disappointing when viewed against the
    statements the Company has recently made regarding commitment to 
    corporate and personal integrity.
    
    I have since pursued other avenues in resolving my issues.
    
    
    kbs
    

    Interesting debate!I will try to asnwer the base question-when would
    one raise an issue and under what circumstances.
    Firstly,I don't think the Ethics office has been introduced with
    employee/manager/Digital ethics in mind as much as company trading
    ethics and business ethics externally.So,I doubt that its the right
    forum for what seem to be employee complaints about Digital management.
    I can see Win being concerned about the ethical issues involved in
    getting software written in third world slave factories(a totally
    hypothetical case) but not in an issue of a manager collaborating with
    another to block a persons career because they are both Masons(thin ice
    here!)We do have mechanisms to solve this latter(don't we?)
    Secondly,if I had to raise an issue to this level to get it resolved
    and it was a personal issue,then I would bet next years salary(which
    obviously could be zero,so take your chances)that the management party
    with whom I had the conflict would get me back in spades-this is human
    nature.The fact that we make it easier for human nature to take its
    course within Digital is another debate..

    .6 raises an interesting point, if I may rephrase it.  It is that the
    mission of the Office of Ethics has not been defined as far as the
    general employees are concerned.  What is its main function?  Is it
    intended that employees in general have anything to do with the Office
    of Ethics?  Other than the announcement of the creation of the Office,
    I've heard nothing official that would indicate that average employees
    should involve themselves with the Office of Ethics.  Delta, Open Door
    Policy and other programs where it is clear that employees should
    participate have been accompanied by announcements and such
    encouraging employee participation.  Have I missed something?
    
    Steve

re .6:

"What is the Office of Ethics for" is ineed one of my pressing questions.
Most of what Palmer said about it before it was started was indeed about
ethical business practices outside the company, but I think there were 
at least two occasions where he referred to its being for inside ethics
issues as well.

As for having mechanisms already in place to solve internal ethics
issues... what are they?  The only ones that I know about are:

	Go to a manager whom you know personally.  It must be a
	manager at a higher level than the one who caused the problem,
	and one who is willing to risk his/her career for you.

	Use the Open Door policy.  The same caveats apply.  Also,
	Open Door is run by Human Resources -- what if your problem
	is with someone high up in Human Resources?  Or someone whom
	the folks in HR don't wish to (or dare to) offend?

	Go to Corporate Security.  I believe their charter is protecting 
	the company, not individual employees.  Someone who harmed *you*
	didn't necessarily harm the company.

	Go work somewhere else and try to forget about it.

	File a lawsuit or other official complaint.  It seems to me that
	working somewhere else is probably a precondition for this one!

The only other solution that I can think of is to establish a VP of Ethics,
who reports only to the President and who has broad powers to fix ethics 
problems.  While this wouldn't work for problems with the President or
the VP of Ethics, it could work for problems with anyone else, no matter
how highly placed, PROVIDED that the VP of Ethics cares more about ethics
than about anything else (including the careers of his/her fellows).  
"Let the chips fall where they may" has to be the byword of the VP of
Ethics for it to work.  Also, the information the VP of Ethics uses to
make decisions cannot be filtered by people who have a stake in what
decision he/she makes!

I have no idea whether the above is part of what Bob Palmer intended when
he set up the Office of Ethics.  I thought it was, and I'd like to believe
that it is.  However, regardless of what Bob Palmer intended, I have some
good reasons to question whether this is what the Office of Ethics is doing.
I would *love* to be proved wrong.  

Does anyone know of any other mechanisms for pursuing ethics problems?
Of course, whatever else one does about it, one must get out from under
whatever manager caused the problem (assuming it is a problem with your
own management chain), and must find a manager who cares about integrity
and fair treatment of his/her people (regardless of who caused it).

	Larry

    
    The Ethics Office, quite frankly when this new organizational entity
    
    was formed, I felt it was a wise and strategic move on behalf of our
    
    CEO, Bob Palmer, and his executive committee to have in place a means
    
    for us "digital" to have a system that would handle the many new
    
    worldly issuues facing our corporation today.
    
    I don't believe it was designed to handle the internal micro business
    
    issues that are very important to us here within the digital domicile.
    
    An Executive committee, such as the Ethics Office, is one that is needed
    
    to keep the corporation strategy in-line with the many diverse
    
    situations that face us as a business and a corporate name as we deal
    
    in this rapid and ever changing expanding global marketplace.
    
    But on the other hand if your problem is one that would adversely
    
    effect digital or our name and its not being responded to, then I too
    
    would be concerned. There are many ways to get from point A to point B
    
    the challenge is choosing the right one...
    
    	
    							G.W.

    i support the ethics office.
    
    \nasser

From my observation (and from talking with Win), officially the Ethics office
is supposed to worry about external ethics, not internal retribution types of
things. However, unofficially, the ethics office *is* supposed to worry about
treatment of employees, etc. So which is it? That's a good question.
Unfortunately, Win has blind faith in the Human Resource function of DEC
(personnel and strategic resources). I've found the HR department in
DEC to be disfunctional. Unless Win is able to overcome his blind faith
in the integrity of the HR department, I see no hope for reasonable things
to come from the Ethics office.

This may very well turn out to be wrong, but what I *heard* is that Bob said
to Win,

"Win, what Digital is missing, and what you can provide for us, as a Vice 
President, is an Office of ...hmmm...uhhhhh...lesseee... *Esthetics*.  Yeah,
that's the ticket, ESTHETICS.  Please take care of that, wudja Win."

Win heard incorrectly and the rest is history. ;-)

Dennis

    Digital has only made the front page of the New York Times a few times. 
    Two that I can recall were the illegal sales of "equipment" to
    Communist nations and the imposition of a fine of $22 million, the
    largest ever for export license violations.
    
    It's in the self-interest of the corporation to fix these sorts of
    problems.  Digital seen in this light was an ethical basket-case.
    
    As for the customer  or employee who has been treated below their
    expectations, their recourse is left as an exericse to the reader.

I received the following much-forwarded message last night.  I've taken off
the forwards (which Digital policy allows) and left on the header of the
original sender (which Digital policy requires).  My reaction to this is
in the following note.



From:	NAME: JOSE RAMIREZ_ER               
	FUNC: CORPORATE EMPLOYEE RELATIONS    
	TEL: 223-9584                         <RAMIREZ.JOSE AT A1 at ICS at PKO>
Date:	22-Apr-1993
Posted-date: 23-Apr-1993
Precedence: 1
Subject: ETHICS OFFICE OPENING                                                  1
To:     See Below




The position of the Ethics Program Manager has been posted for the past 
two to three weeks.  We have received a number of resumes from employees
expressing an interest in the position.

I have summarized below the job description and responsibilities in the 
event you have any knowledge of an individual that would be appropriate to
consider for this  position.

Any names or resumes of potential candidates should come to my attention
no later than Friday, April 30th.

Regards,

Jose







POSITION AND RESPONSIBILITIES:

o Manage and develop an educational/communication strategy.
o Establish standards and processes that provide employees worldwide with
  the means to raise ethical issues and questions and receive a timely and
  honest response.  
o Complete and gain acceptance for a worldwide Code of Conduct for Digital.
o Establish and manage contacts with outside experts to provide consulting
  and services necessary to complete defined work.
o Establish and manage a virtual Ethics Support Team made up of people from
  within the Company's geographical, functional and business units.
o Support the Business Conduct Committee.
o Manage the change and development of Policies and Standards.
o Follow up on all matter referred by the V.P. of Ethics. 


To Distribution List:

_TPSYS::ABBETT AT A1 at ICS at PKO,
Lois Drumm @AKO,
Ron Glover @MSO,
Bill Hill @MSO,
Tom Mathias @GNO,
Tom McEachin @MSO,
Bill Mersch @AKO,
NAME: JOHN MURPHY <MURPHY.JOHN AT A1 at ICS at PKO>,
michael peterson @wnp,
Vic Pompa @PKO,
Jose Ramirez @MSO,
Sy Sackler @MSO,
Jeff Schneider @DER,
Remy Siegrist @GEC,
ROB AYRES @CORE,
JAMES BAHRNES @MLO,
BONNIE BEDELL @CORE,
ROSS BROWN @MSO,
RALPH CHRISTENSEN @MLO,
ED COTTER @ZKO,
DICK FARRAHAR @CORE,
HOPE GREENFIELD @MLO,
KAREN HOWARD @OGO,
JERRY LOPORTO @AKO,
LYNNE MCEVOY @MLO,
BOB MULKEY @MLO,
KAREN O'CONNOR @MSO,
ADRIANA STADECKER @MLO,
MAURICE VANDERPOT @MLO,
WAYNE WATTERS @GEO

The following is my reply to Jose Ramirez about the new Ethics program
Manager position (which he says has been posted for weeks).  I'm not
certain that he's received the message yet (I've tried several addresses
that bounced for network related reasons), so I'll confirm that he gets it.

I have this sick feeling that they're only considering high level Human
Resources (e.g. Personnel) people for this position.  



From:	PASTA::SEILER "Larry Seiler, x223-0588, MLO5-2  29-Apr-1993 0854" 29-APR-1993 08:54:37.43
To:	WRL::"jose.ramirez@mso.mts.dec.com",WRL::"jose.ramirez@mso.mts.dec.com"
CC:	SEILER
Subj:	About the new Ethics Manager position

Dear Jose,

Yes, I had a person to recommend for the position of Ethics Program
Manager.  I mailed my recommendation directly to Win Hindle and Bob Palmer 
on April 13th.  I wasn't aware that there was any attempt to fill such a 
position.  However, my memo made it clear, based on my own experience 
attempting to have the ethics office resolve a serious issue, just why 
such a position is needed and just why the candidate I suggested is an
ideal choice for this position.

However, I have an important question for you about this position.  You've
made it clear what the responsibilities of the positon are, but what are
the criteria by which a candidate will be chosen?  Is "credibility with 
the employees on ethics issues" the most important criteria?  Is it even
one of the criteria?  

Whoever fills such a position will be entirely ineffective at *genuinely*
addressing the numerous serious ethics problems within Digital without
established credibility on ethics issues.  The reason I'm so sure of this
is because of the many people I've spoken with who (unlike me) will not
bring accusations to the Ethics Office because their earlier attempts to
raise their problems were suppressed -- in some cases by people currently
associated with the ethics office.  Will the new ethics manager be someone
whose background convinces them that there is now real concern about ethics?

Incidentally, I have received no reply from Win Hindle or Bob Palmer
regarding my memo.  I am very much hoping that I receive a reply from you.

	Yours sincerely,
	Larry Seiler

    I know of one Deccie who interviewed with Win for a similar position.
    This Deccie is known and trusted by *many* at Digital.  However,
    (and correct me if I'm wrong) one of the reasons he could not be
    considered was that he didn't trust management enough.
    
    Steve

re<<< Note 2474.16 by ECADSR::SHERMAN "Steve ECADSR::Sherman DTN 223-3326 MLO5-2/26a" >>>

   >  (and correct me if I'm wrong) one of the reasons he could not be
   > considered was that he didn't trust management enough.
    
    Steve,

    That eliminates everyone that I'd recommend :-(

   Barry

>o Establish and manage a virtual Ethics Support Team made up of people from
>  within the Company's geographical, functional and business units.

Is that a virtual team to support ethics, or a team to support virtual ethics?
How about a virtuous Ethics Support Team?

	Set up an ETHICS.NOTE. That will accomplish the following items of the
	job description:

>o Establish standards and processes that provide employees worldwide with
>  the means to raise ethical issues and questions and receive a timely and
>  honest response.  
>o Complete and gain acceptance for a worldwide Code of Conduct for Digital.
>o Establish and manage a virtual Ethics Support Team made up of people from
>  within the Company's geographical, functional and business units.

	Send the check for the money saved to me at ZKO.

					Tom_K

    What sort of person should fill this role? What sort of person will
    actually get the job? Will they be the same? In an ideal world those
    in the rank and file and those in management would have the same basic
    idea as to what sort of person should be in this job.

    I think the first qualification should be that they person be trusted
    by a wide segment of the company. More than just by management.

    Management skills and more specifically people skills would be second.
    Experience managing virtual teams or volunteer efforts would rank high
    just because I see this job relying more on persuasion than pure
    authority.

    Specific experience in creating policy would be third but down a bit
    below the other two items.

    I also think that someone from outside the usual staff line of command
    would be a good idea if only to avoid the appearance of the "old boy
    network" being at work. Perhaps even someone not currently a manager?
    			Alfred

Re: .16
	I was the person who volunteered for the job even though I had seen
	no posting about it when I last met with Win on April 8 and was
	turned down (suprise!).

	I believe that Win's exact words were:
	"I don't think you'd be good in that job because you don't trust
	management."

	I corrected him by saying that I think some managers are good, and
	some are not, but it is accurate to say that I don't trust personnel.

    That's like asking an internal affairs police officer "Do you trust
    lieutenants and captains?"
    
    To which the correct answer is "I trust the honest ones and want to
    nail the dishonest ones."

Per earlier, we learn:

>>From:	NAME: JOSE RAMIREZ_ER               
	FUNC: CORPORATE EMPLOYEE RELATIONS    
	TEL: 223-9584                         <RAMIREZ.JOSE AT A1 at ICS at PKO>
>>Date:	22-Apr-1993
>>Posted-date: 23-Apr-1993
>>Precedence: 1
>>Subject: ETHICS OFFICE OPENING                                                  1
>>To:     See Below

>>The position of the Ethics Program Manager has been posted for the past 
>>two to three weeks.  We have received a number of resumes from employees
>>expressing an interest in the position.

Really? Posted where? There is no position in VTX JOBS_US with the
keyword Ethics. Could not find it posted anywhere.

>>POSITION AND RESPONSIBILITIES:

>>o Manage and develop an educational/communication strategy.

We all saw the big interest generated by the announcement of Communications 
Program Office. I believe it is the only note ever posted in
::DIGITAL to get not even _one_ reply. We need communication. We have 
    had more than enough announcements of pending communication. Employees
    are still replying upon the Internet and phone calls from friends to 
    find out what's happening within DEC. Time to put up or shut up.

>>o Establish standards and processes that provide employees worldwide with
>>  the means to raise ethical issues and questions and receive a timely and
>>  honest response.  

This was to be the explicit job of the New, Revitalized Open Door Policy.
Why should a replacement for the ODP work when both my experience and that of 
others with whom I've shared notes demonstrated that the ODP doesn't work?

>>o Complete and gain acceptance for a worldwide Code of Conduct for Digital.

What happened to 'Do the Right Thing'? Too straight-forward? 

>>o Establish and manage contacts with outside experts to provide consulting
>>  and services necessary to complete defined work.

An admission that our employees can't define ethical behavior? Then we need 
more than consulting help.

>>o Establish and manage a virtual Ethics Support Team made up of people from
>>  within the Company's geographical, functional and business units.

Establishing an Ethics Support Team in the current DEC climate is like 
stationing a Celestial Mechanics Education Team at the headquarters of 
the Flat Earth Society.

Per Larry Seiler's reply:

>>Whoever fills such a position will be entirely ineffective at *genuinely*
>>addressing the numerous serious ethics problems within Digital without
>>established credibility on ethics issues.  The reason I'm so sure of this
>>is because of the many people I've spoken with who (unlike me) will not
>>bring accusations to the Ethics Office because their earlier attempts to
>>raise their problems were suppressed -- in some cases by people currently
>>associated with the ethics office.  Will the new ethics manager be someone
>>whose background convinces them that there is now real concern about ethics?

Absolutely correct.


kbs
             

    
    re-.2
    
    << "..don't trust management.."
    
    My response is not to trust anyone. The correct person for this job
    will strandle the fence. Placing no more trust than needed in any
    one person, organization or matrix. Truely a balancing act.
    
    -Mike Z.

  60MB MANUFACTURING GROUP MGR                     WC: 4 (Exempt)
      Title: Corp.EH&S Manager                  Shift: 1  Travel: 25%  Hours: 40

Recruiter:  Wayne Louder                        Requisition Number:  G220457
   E-mail:  USPMLO::LOUDER                                    Date:  14-APR-93
  LOC/DTN:  MLO5-5/A37  223-7898                  Relocation Funds:  No

       Job Site:  MSO MAYNARD SCOTT PLANT, MA
Job Description:
Respon.for managing EH&S WW strategic direction.Manage overall dev. &
implementation of co.wide EHS policies,plans & programs.Manager high
level,sensitive and or strategic EHS issues of major importance to the corp.Lead
corp.committees & task forces dealing w/proactive and/or reactive
multi-disciplinary issues.Represent DEC EHS on an ongoing basis w/major SRI 00
geographic,country mgmt.and organ.executives both internal and external.Have
functional relationships and specific staff respon.for EHS.Speaks for Corp.EHS
and DEC on issues pertaining to environ.protection and employ.health & safety.

Re: -1

No EH&S is Environmental Health and Safety.

  U.S. JOBS BOOK          Digital Internal Use Only
    
  12CO BUSINESS OPER SUPP MGR 3                    WC: 4 (Exempt)
      Title: BUS OPS SUPPORT MGR 3              Shift: 1  Travel: 15%  Hours: 40

Recruiter:  Marty Dorfman                       Requisition Number:  H443174
   E-mail:  USPMLO::DORFMAN                                   Date:  06-APR-93
  LOC/DTN:  MLO5-5/A37  223-4593                  Relocation Funds:  No

       Job Site:  MLO CORP HDQTRS/ENG/MFG MAYNARD, MA
Job Description:
Mng & devlp an educational/comm staff.Establish stndrds & proc that provide ee's
w/w with means to raise ethical issues & questions & receive a timely & honest
response. Complete & gain acceptance for a w/w Code of Conduct for DEC.
Establish & mng contact w/outside experts to prov consltng & svcs nec to
complete defined work. Establish & mng a virtual Ethics Support Team. Suppt the
Business Conduct Committee. Mng the change & dev of Policies & Standards. Follow
up on all matter referred by the V.P.of Ethics. Knowl of DEC structure & ops &
decision proc.Exp w/Bus Ethics,Custmr Reltns,Bus Mgt,ER,Values & Phil. SRI 42

If this is indeed the position, its posting demonstrates most of the problems
such a position is ostensibly to fix.


  U.S. JOBS BOOK          Digital Internal Use Only
    
>>  12CO BUSINESS OPER SUPP MGR 3                    WC: 4 (Exempt)
>>      Title: BUS OPS SUPPORT MGR 3              Shift: 1  Travel: 15%  Hours:
									 40

Nowhere is Ethics a keyword. Bad start. Business as usual.

>>Job Description:
>>Mng & devlp an educational/comm staff.Establish stndrds & proc that provide
>>ee's w/w with means to raise ethical issues & questions & receive a timely 
>>& honest response. 

The Open Door Policy has failed at this. How will a Business Ops Support 
Manager 3 make this work? 
Discuss.

>>Complete & gain acceptance for a w/w Code of Conduct for DEC.

More "buying-in." BP said this was the past. How does one build 
acceptance of a worldwide code of conduct when employees no longer trust 
management? 
Discuss.

>>Establish & mng contact w/outside experts to prov consltng & svcs nec to
>>complete defined work. Establish & mng a virtual Ethics Support Team. 
>>Suppt the Business Conduct Committee. Mng the change & dev of Policies & 
>>Standards. 

The Orange Book has taken on the aspects of a medieval bible, written and 
rewritten and rerewritten by monks for hundreds of years, to the point that
it is impressive but of little practical value. We do not need new policies 
and standards. We need adherence to accepted principals and behaviors, and 
punishment of those who do not so adhere.

>>Follow up on all matter referred by the V.P.of Ethics. 

Wrong! If management is seen as a big part of the problem, how can employees 
expect management to be the conduit through which action will flow in 
response to problems and issues raised by employees about management? What 
about freedom to examine issues _other_ than those brought to it by the Ethics 
Office? You can't have a suspect system examining itself.

>>>Complete & gain acceptance for a w/w Code of Conduct for DEC.
>
>More "buying-in." BP said this was the past. How does one build 
>acceptance of a worldwide code of conduct when employees no longer trust 
>management? 
>Discuss.

    Employees will believe in a code of conduct when they see management
    live up to one. I believe that trust can be rebuilt by an active
    management that does what it says it will do. If this position actually
    does something about unethical conduct it will help build trust. It
    appears that this position is really outside the usual chain of
    command. Win reports to Bob Palmer. This position reports to Win. Or
    appears to in at least dotted line fashion. Thus it, theoretically,
    has the power to actually do something while not being dependent on
    middle management.

    I suspect that the only buying in of a code of conduct will be by Win
    and Bob. After that, if I read Bob Palmer right, management will accept
    it or answer to Bob. It will only take on VP or other high level person
    getting called on the carpet for this code to start becoming a real
    part of a rebuilt corporate culture.

>>>Mng & devlp an educational/comm staff.Establish stndrds & proc that provide
>>>ee's w/w with means to raise ethical issues & questions & receive a timely 
>>>& honest response. 
>
>The Open Door Policy has failed at this. How will a Business Ops Support 
>Manager 3 make this work? 
>Discuss.

    The current ODP uses people in the normal chain of command. This
    position appears to be independent and outside that chain of command.
    This is important.

>>>Follow up on all matter referred by the V.P.of Ethics. 
>
>Wrong! If management is seen as a big part of the problem, how can employees 
>expect management to be the conduit through which action will flow in 
>response to problems and issues raised by employees about management? What 
>about freedom to examine issues _other_ than those brought to it by the Ethics 
>Office? You can't have a suspect system examining itself.

    I don't read that follow up line as a limitation. That is to say I do
    not think that this position is limited to only those matters referred
    to it by the VP of Ethics. And again I see this as a new system with,
    hopefully, new people.

    As for the job posting itself, postings are like resumes. Their purpose
    is to get people interested in finding out more. It's said that resumes
    are to get interviews not jobs. I view postings as a means to get
    resumes. Interviews are where a candidate finds out what a job is all
    about while the hiring manager finds out about the person behind the
    resume.

    			Alfred

Yep, that's the job Jose Ramirez was referring to.  In his mail to me 
the description is formatted in a way that makes it less obscure.  I'll
post his message to me if he gives me permission to do so.

In the meantime, if you know someone of publicly demonstrated integrity
who could be even remotely interested in such a position, PLEASE try to 
convince them to submit their name by the end of the day TODAY.  (Or
later if you can't get them to do it today).  I have not yet given up
on Digital -- I've only faced up to the fact that I'll have to if things
do not change.  I feel that it is essential that this job be filled by
someone who has the proven credibility (and independence) to let them be 
trusted by those who feel that they are victims of ethical abuses --
no matter how highly placed the person who caused the problem.

	Larry

A professor of mine in graduate school was writing a book on
ethics.  To his credit, he tried to boil down various dilemmas
to simple "tests".  Two of them spring to mind:

   1. The Mom Test

      If you are considering doing a thing, ask yourself whether
      your mother would approve.  Would you be embarrassed if
      she knew you were doing this thing?

   2. The TV Test

      If the thing you were doing ended up on TV, how would
      you feel about it?

I don't know if the book was ever published, so I can't quote
a publisher or title.  I also know that this has very little
to do with this string, but what the hell.  

Glenn

    Some people may be horrified by what I am about to suggest, but
    here goes:
    
    The fastest way to straighten out the ethics situation, and improve the
    effectiveness of the open door and the ethics office would be to
    establish a fair ethical guidebook and get employees to read and sign
    this guidebook every year, thereby stating that they understand the
    ethical guidelines and that if they are caught breaking any of them
    they will be risking immediate dismissal.
    
    This is something that helped the military, IBM, EDS and other
    organizations.
    
    It doesn't seem to fit with what I've seen of Digital's corporate 
    culture, but it's been proven effective, and anyone who doesn't want
    to sign is welcome to leave.
    
    Dan

re: .32

Why would signing such an agreement constrain those who lie and backstab
on a professional basis anyway?  Sounds like the infamous "loyalty oaths"
of the '50s...a real Communist spy had no qualms about signing those either.

								paul

    RE: .33 Perhaps signing such a document would not constrain people.
    It would however remove the "I didn't know the rules" excuse when
    they did break the rules. That would make it a bit easier to remove
    people for unethical behavior. Let's face it the only way to make
    ethics part of the corporate culture is to punish the guilty and
    reward the innocent (those who correct the errors of the guilty.)

    This may be a little bit of a turn around in some groups. :-)

    People need to know that the rules are important. They need to hear
    this from their management. Most importantly they have to hear stories
    of people who act unethically being punished and of people who go the
    extra mile to act ethically being rewarded. Actions speak far louder
    than words printed, read and signed.

    			Alfred

    ???  What happened to the Corporate Philosophy??  When I first joined
    DEC in 1981, we practically had to memorize that one page of "WHO AND
    WHAT WE ARE".  I used to have an engraved copy of it.  They were the
    words we lived by.  There was also a list of deadly sins, things that
    could get you fired on the spot.  We all knew them by heart.
    
    Last year, I was looking for a copy of the Philosophy and I ask my 
    personell rep if she had one (We were at a customer site so we did not
    have the usual access to documentation).  She laughted and said "Oh, no
    one pays any attention to that silly old stuff any more."
    
    I was stunned.  "Silly old stuff...."  I try to live by it!!!  No
    wonder I have trouble understanding the new Digital.
    
    Judy (still trying to do the right thing)
    

                   Digital Equipment Corporation Philosophy


Overview

THE FOLLOWING POLICY IS REPRINTED FROM THE CORPORATE POLICY
MEMORANDUM.

The Executive Committee feels that the following statement of
PHILOSOPHY may be helpful for guidance in communicating the kind of
Company we would like to be to employees and people outside of
Digital.

Honesty

We want to be not only technically honest, but also to make sure
that the implication of what we say and the impressions we leave
are correct.  When we make a commitment to customers or to employ-
ees, we feel the obligation to see that it happens.

Profit

We are a public Corporation.  Stockholders invested in our
Corporation for profit.  Success is measured by profit.  With
success comes the opportunity to grow, the ability to hire good
people and the satisfaction that comes with meeting your goals.  We
feel that profit is in no way inconsistent with social goals.

Quality

Growth is not our primary goal.  Our goal is to be a quality
organization and do a quality job which means that we will be proud
of our product and our work for years to come.  As we achieve
quality, growth comes as a result.

The product we are selling includes the engineering, the software,
the manufacturing, and the services, which include field service,
software support, sales, order processing, training and manuals.

Responsibility

Plans are proposed by individuals or teams.  These plans may be
rejected until they fit Corporate goals or until the Strategy
Committee feels confidence in the plans.  But when they are
accepted, they are the responsibility of those who proposed them.
The impetus for the plan may come from outside the group making the
proposal, but when it is accepted, the implementation of the plan
is the responsibility of the one who proposed it.  Others who need
to participate in plan implementation are expected to support
approved plans.

Management

We particularly want to be sure that management jobs are clear and
well defined.  Because so many people are dependent on the plans of
managers, it is very important that their plans have regular
automatic measurements built into them.  Meeting financial results
is only one measure of a plan; other measures are satisfied
customers, development of people, meeting long range needs of the
Corporation, development of new products, opening new markets, and
meeting the commitments made to others in the Company.  We believe
that our commitment to planning assures our freedom to act.

Society

We are committed as a Corporation to taking affirmative action in
providing equal opportunity for employment and promotion for all
persons regardless of race, color, creed, age or sex.  We encourage
all employees to take responsibility in community, social and
government activities.  We are always open for proposals as to what
the Corporation or an individual on Corporation time may want to do
in these areas.  However, activities to be done on Company time or
with Company funds should have a formal proposal including ways of
regularly measuring success toward goals.

Environment

As good citizens, we believe we have a responsibility to keep our
environment free of pollution and to set an example.

Customers

We must be honest and straightforward with our customers and be
sure that they are not only told the facts, but that they also
understand the facts.

To the best of our knowledge and ability, we want to be sure that
the products we sell solve the needs of the customer even when the
customer is inexperienced.  We want our products and services to
meet the customer's expectations, and to do this we must clarify in
advance all of those expectations in a way that the customer will
understand.  When we sell a product to a customer, we want to be
sure the Corporation fulfills the obligations we took on with the
sale.  We sell our Corporation, its products and its services, not
a single individual.  We must be sure all Digital commitments are
met.

Suppliers

We wish to be viewed by suppliers as a desirable customer.
Business transactions with suppliers will be conducted on an
honest, fair and open basis.  Suppliers and potential suppliers
will be treated courteously and given an opportunity to present
their goods and services for consideration.  Competition is
encouraged.  Our business ethics require that our employees not
accept from suppliers any gifts, gratuities, or entertainment that
exceed common courtesy or are of nominal value.

Competitors

We never criticize the competition publicly.  We sell by presenting
the positive features of our own products.  We want to be respect-
ful of all competition, and collect and analyze all public informa-
tion about competitors.  When we hire people from competitors, we
should never ask them for confidential, competitive information,
nor should we use confidential literature they may have taken with
them.

Simplicity and Clarity

We want all aspects of Digital to be clear and simple and we want
simple products, proposals, organization, literature that is easy
to read and understand, and advertisements that have a simple,
obvious message.  We have thousands of employees and many thousands
of customers.  We have to keep things simple to be sure that we all
work together.  Our decisions must always consider the impact on
the people who will be affected by them.

Standard Products

Standard products are the base of our business.  At times, in
certain areas, we will invest in software and hardware specifically
for special markets.  But we should never lose sight that the base
of our business is our standard products.

OEMS

Selling to OEMs is very important to us.  There are more
applications for our products than we could ever develop.  When
OEMS take risks and are very successful in a market, we should
respect the risk they took.

However, we may compete with OEMs in very large markets or where
the OEM covers only a small segment of the market.  When we decide
to enter a market, we make this decision independently on the basis
of the facts.

Thereafter, we look to see if we have an OEM who focuses on that
market, so that we can openly communicate our future plans to that
OEM.  If we do compete with an OEM, we do it openly and fairly.
Conversely, we will respect the right of our OEM to compete with
us.  When OEMs are in trouble with their customers, we tell them so
they can improve.

Personnel Development

We encourage people to develop technical skills, breadth of
knowledge, and expertise in a specific area.  We also encourage
people to develop supervisory and management skills.  We believe
that individual discipline should be self-generated.

Promotion

We promote people according to their performance, not only their
technical ability but also their ability to get the job done and to
take the responsibility that goes with the job.  Ability is
measured not only by past results, but also by attitude and desire
to succeed.  Performance results are also used to decide whether
individuals should remain in their current jobs.

Hiring from Customers

We should be exceedingly careful when hiring employees from
customers.  Sometimes this is reasonable and desirable; but we
should do it with all caution and by being sure that the employee
first tells the customer.

First Rule

When dealing with a customer, a supplier, or an employee, do what
is "right" to do in each situation.

    Among the first notes entered in this conference is the comment that
    Ken Olsen's values expressed in the "philosphy", in the orientation
    video, etc. were being ignored and considered "quaint" by many.  This
    also came up in "The Ultimate Entrepreneur".
    
    Over and over again, we asked in this conference why, if Ken Olsen
    spoke and wrote so highly of these values, why were they not reflected
    in the people _he_ picked to run the company.
    
    There's no satisfactory answer to that question.

.35>	"Oh, no one pays any attention to that silly old stuff any more."

	That truth is in large measure why this company finds itself
	in the shape it is in.

				No_one

re: .37... I don't know how "satisfactory" this answer is, but clearly the
	answer is that the folks near the top believe that they are above the
	system of ethics enumerated in the policy and procedures book.

	To paraphrase another person who was brough down recently...

	"Only the little people pay attention to ethics and rules of conduct."

Re .35:

While those points of philosophy did indeed end up in the Orange book, they were
removed from the _Internal Guide to Digital Organizations_ when it went online
on VTX a couple of years ago.  I mailed a suggestion that they be put online to
Standards and Methods Control at the time, but I've yet to receive the courtesy
of a response.
				/AHM

Re: .40

Alan,

    My apologies you didn't receive a response from us relative to the 
    omission of the Digital Philosophy from the VTX GUIDE.  The feeling 
    was that it was available from many other sources, including 
    VTX CORP_POL, which is also provided by SMC.
    
PS: My managers decided to stop supporting VTX GUIDE entirely because we 
    couldn't afford the labor necessary to keep up with the daily, wholesale 
    changes.

- Jim

Re .41:

Thanks for getting back to me now.  I know how well-intentioned "user-response"
channels can lose items due to pressure from things like "real work".

At the time, I didn't know that any of the "non-orgchart" portions of the
(extremely useful) hardcopy guide were available elsewhere.  I still keep my
hardcopy right at hand, partially because I still don't know where some of the
other articles might have gone.
				/AHM/THX

    Re .37, regarding Ken Olsen who valued honesty, integrity etc and why
    the persons _he_ chose didnt match this.
    
    I just had to answer this issue. Of course, I don't know the answer
    but over many years of starting projects at work and outside work, I
    have noticed that it is far easier to have values and keep to them
    than it is to insure that people that build up around you keep to those
    values.
    
    I've been in on the ground floor of a few projects with certain values
    that were entirely lost by corrupt management that built up around it.
    If you have a lead postion, it certainly helps alot, but it simply is
    not entirely possible to figure out every individual that you
    establish and far difficult to replace them even if you want to. In
    our society it is not easy, and corrupt people do band together to
    help each other. Collusion is a natural precept for the corrupt.
    
    For those of us who want to do our jobs and have some impact, we're
    pretty occupied and try to be optimistic about people. While we become
    occupied doing what we should we can have little time to correct some
    horrors.
    
    I've gained an appreciation for fulltime management, perhaps will
    do it someday so that there can be a full effort used when needed.
    But even still, there are those above and those on the sides that
    become corrupt and immovable. I wouldnt want to work with them.
    
    I startede on one project and as it built up it became horrifying
    when the management cronies gravitated around it to take the credit
    and makes people miserable. That happened once again while I was
    in more of a lead position. Its painful to see self serving management
    grow into an ugly nightmare so I left it.
    
    I also once started a study group outside of work which I had to leave
    because the participants went down a morass.
    
    You've heard the expression, a bad apple sours the bunch. Its
    unfortunately true. It takes longer to build up a healthy organization.
    
    Don't be suprised that Ken was told to leave. There's another scenario,
    getting thrown out of your own company.
    
    We live in a free society. Corrupt people have their rights too, and
    the burden of proof is always harder when it must be proven that
    someone is at fault. I'll never agree with the corruption in this
    company anymore, but I am thankly for freedom.  Those of us who want to
    do something right can always leave and take up elsewhere perhaps where
    the leadership wants more of the same.
    
    Never forget the option of leaving! When you aren't appreciated, there
    are always those elsewhere who do appreciate honesty and integirty. I
    wouldn't work anywhere without it.
    
    Tom
    

One reason I started this note was in hopes that somebody, ANYBODY, would
report a positive experience with the Office of Ethics or its equivalent.
That is, an experience in which they were mistreated by someone more
powerful than they, they took it to the people who own ethics, and it
was satisfactorily resolved.  C'mon, isn't there at least one case?

I heard something on the news last night (APR's Marketplace) that might
be relevant to my questions in the base note.  They said that when federal
senticncing guidelines changed, they doubled the maximum fine for
corporate ethical misconduct from $1M to $2M.  But the fine can be reduced
to as little as $50K if the company has an ethics program in place.

	Larry

    re:.44
    Well, I do know of stuff they're doing that's real, but it's very
    confidential.  Real ethics stuff doesn't get broadcast.

Of course the ethics office doesn't broadcast what it has done.  And
people who have had ethics problems resolved should probably not
broadcast who it was they had a problem with.

However, please read my questions (in .0 and .43) again.  I'm not 
(in this notes string) interested in whether the ethics office is 
doing anything about outside business conduct.  Presumably it does --
Digital can get big fines for that sort of stuff, and the phrase
"business ethics" is in Win Hindle's title.  

What I'm asking is very simple and focussed:  is there any employee who
had a problem with unfair treatment by a higher level Digital employee,
and who was able to get the problem resolved by means of the ethics office
or its equivalent?

	Thanks,
	Larry

PS -- Thanks, .45, for your assurance that the Ethics Office is doing
real stuff.  I wish I could know what they are doing regarding business
ethics, but I understand why they and you cannot talk about it.  However, 
I see no reason why someone who was vindicated by the Ethics Office could 
not make that fact known (if nothing else).  LS

Worldwide News                                 LIVE WIRE
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
Business ethics principles stated (26-Jul)      m            Date: 26-Jul-1993
qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq

                      Business ethics principles stated 
 
         (The following message is from the Senior Leadership Team.)
 
         Many employees have asked why we need an Office of Ethics and 
   Business Practices at Digital and why we need to publish new statements 
   about Digital's ethics. They wondered whether this indicates a belief 
   that Digital people are not ethical. To the contrary, our consistent 
   experience across the company confirms Digital's basic commitment to 
   ethical practices.
         But we also recognize that over the last few years nearly everything 
   about our business has changed. We compete in increasingly global, complex, 
   and competitive markets characterized by accelerated economic, social, 
   political, and technological change. We also compete in markets and areas 
   of technology that didn't even exist 10 years ago. 
         Like many large multinational companies, Digital faces increased 
   scrutiny and complex regulation from governments around the world. These 
   governments can impose substantial financial and criminal penalties on the 
   corporation and on individual employees for violations of their laws. These 
   changes make it increasingly difficult to know what is ethical in every 
   instance. The pressure to succeed can also cause individuals to question 
   or ignore our ethical standards.
         At the same time, maintaining a reputation for ethical excellence 
   is essential to our long-term success. Customers, suppliers, investors, 
   and the communities in which we operate must believe that we are trustworthy 
   or they simply will not do business with us in the long term. The ethical 
   decisions that each of us makes every day will help them to decide if 
   Digital is a trustworthy partner.
         Maintaining a sense of what is ethical in the face of change requires 
   more focus than it did in the past. The Office of Ethics and Business 
   Practices was created to help bring that focus and to establish a resource 
   to provide guidance and standards for all employees.
         Today, we are releasing this statement of Digital's Business Ethics 
   Principles as a key step in defining, communicating, and reinforcing our 
   commitment to ethical business practices across the company. Every employee 
   should read and understand this important statement. Along with existing 
   policies (such as Corporate Policy 2-2, "Digital Business Ethics," and 
   other Personnel policies such as "Conflicts of Interest" and "Information 
   Protection"), these principles provide guidance about Digital's ethical 
   standards and expectations. Employees who fail to adhere to these standards 
   should know that the company will have a swift and appropriate response, up 
   to and including termination and legal action.  
         Over the next quarter, the Office of Ethics and Business Practices 
   will publish a worldwide Code of Business Conduct that will provide further 
   detailed standards. The Office will also establish a Business Ethics Line 
   (BE-line), so that employees can communicate questions, issues, and concerns 
   directly.
         Any employee who believes Digital's ethical standards are being 
   violated should first consider discussing the issue with his or her 
   manager. If that is not appropriate, then contact Human Resources, Law, 
   or Security for help. Any employee may contact the Office of Ethics and 
   Business Practices immediately if none of the above resources seem 
   appropriate. These notifications will be treated confidentially and will 
   result in prompt investigation and appropriate corrective action.
 
         Senior Leadership Team:
         
                 Henry Ancona            Ed McDonough
                 Gresham Brebach         Vin Mullarkey
                 Larry Cabrinety         Bob Palmer
                 Bobby Choonavala        Enrico Pesatori
                 Charlie Christ          Dick Poulsen
                 Dick Farrahar           John Rando
                 Russ Gullotti           Bruce Ryan
                 Win Hindle              Willow Shire
                 John Klein              Tom Siekman
                 Paul Kozlowski          Adriana Stadecker       
                 Ed Lucente              Bill Steul
                 Frank McCabe            Bill Strecker
 
                            Business Ethics Principles 
                          Digital Equipment Corporation 

         In conducting business, each of us must always remember and 
   adhere to Digital's first principle: to do what is honest, lawful and 
   fair in all that we say and do. This principle is the cornerstone for 
   all of our values and is the foundation on which we build our relationships 
   with customers, business partners, employees, investors, suppliers, and 
   the communities in which we operate. The following additional principles 
   help to define expected behavior for anyone conducting business on behalf 
   of Digital: 
 
         o   We are, first and foremost, honest in all of our dealings   
             with one another, with customers, business partners, 
             investors, suppliers, and the communities in which we 
             operate.  We are not only honest in the technical sense of 
             the word but also seek to ensure that the impressions we 
             leave are accurate.
             
         o   We never give or accept gifts of more than nominal value 
             (as defined in company or country policy) and exercise 
             care to ensure that we never give or accept gifts which 
             are intended or perceived to be for purposes of improperly 
             influencing business decisions.  We never give or accept 
             bribes of any kind.

         o   We always comply with applicable law wherever we do 
             business.   
                          
         o   We take special care to comply with the precise 
             regulations governing business conduct in our relationship 
             with governments and their officials, agents, employees, 
             and contractors to ensure that the information we provide 
             to them is accurate and that we do nothing to create even 
             an appearance of undue influence.
         
         o   We protect and respect the confidentiality of any 
             information provided to us by others, and neither seek nor
             accept such confidential information from improper or 
             unauthorized sources.           
             
         o   We avoid business or personal arrangements that create or 
             appear to create any conflicts of interest or divided 
             loyalty.  
         
         o   We never use company assets for private or personal gain.  
             We protect the company's assets and ensure that they are 
             used responsibly and in support of the company's business.

         o   We encourage, expect, and support open, honest dialogue 
             among all employees as a critical part of the decision-making 
             process. Each of us works to ensure that the information we 
             provide during these dialogues is as timely and as complete 
             as possible. In all activities, we record and report all 
             information accurately and honestly.
             
         o   We treat each other with respect and dignity. We work together 
             in teams to make Digital successful, and recognize that the 
             success of the company takes precedence over individual success 
             or the success of any single organization. We never secure 
             individual success at the expense of our colleagues or the 
             company.
             
         o   We reward performance. Promotions and other advancement 
             decisions are based on competence and demonstrated contribution.
          
         o   We respect and support our business partners because of the 
             work they do, the investments they make, and the risks they 
             take to be successful in the marketplace. We take special care 
             in negotiating and meeting our commitments to our business 
             partners because we understand that they and our customers 
             rely on us once those commitments are made. 

         As employees working in a global corporation, we are sometimes 
   confronted with complex ethical issues as we engage in the daily conduct 
   of our business. Complexities can arise from differences in customs or 
   practices in the countries and cultures in which we do business, or from 
   established standards in the industries and businesses in which we 
   operate. We will strive to respect these customs and practices but only 
   to the extent that they are consistent with our ethical principles. 
         Similarly, we are sometimes confronted with situations that appear 
   to require us to make choices between complying with these principles and 
   completing a given business transaction. In these situations, we should 
   always try to identify alternatives that will allow us to complete the 
   transaction and adhere to these principles. In all cases, however, these 
   principles must be followed.
         Determining the correct response in these situations is not always 
   easy, but it is always worth the effort. Doing what is right by our 
   customers, business partners, shareholders, employees, and the communities 
   in which we live and work is of foremost importance to us. It is expected 
   that all employees will adhere to these standards. The response that each 
   of us makes to these issues helps to establish Digital's reputation. If we 
   are to continue to succeed we must maintain a very high standard of ethical 
   behavior. 
         All of us are responsible for adhering to these principles and for 
   reporting violations to appropriate company officials. Each of us is also 
   expected to take personal responsibility for understanding what is required 
   by these ethical principles and under applicable law. Employees should know 
   that a failure to meet ethical standards will result in disciplinary 
   action and possibly legal action. Managers have a special responsibility 
   for acting in ways that demonstrate their commitment to these principles 
   and for creating a work environment that supports and assures the highest 
   level of ethical conduct and respect for law. They are particularly 
   responsible for communicating these principles and ensuring that everyone 
   in their organization follows them.

    Saw a note from Bob Palmer this am saying Win Hindle is retiring.
    
    Mark
    

    That'll save the company $450k/year; Hindle was the second highest paid
    employee in the company.

Worldwide News                     LIVE WIRE
Win Hindle announces plans to retire from ...   
     
         Win Hindle, vice president of Quality, Ethics and Business Practices, 
   has annnounced his plans to retire from Digital at the end of June.
         Hindle joined Digital in 1962 as assistant to company founder Ken 
   Olsen.  During his years with Digital, Hindle held management positions 
   with responsibility for Marketing; Information Systems; Planning; Business 
   Units; Communications; Security; and most recently, Quality, Ethics and 
   Business Practices.  He was named vice president of Corporate Operations 
   in 1978 and senior vice president in 1986.
         Hindle also chairs several internal boards, including the Investment 
   Committee and the Canadian Board of Directors.
         "It's very difficult to leave Digital after all these years," Hindle 
   said.  "The company has made solid progress along its road back to 
   profitability.  I leave with the knowledge that Bob Palmer and his 
   management team are providing the leadership needed for Digital to succeed. 
   I feel very fortunate to have had the opportunity of being part of this 
   exciting venture." 
         Bob Palmer, Digital's president and chief executive officer, 
   commented, "In his latest assignment, Win has worked in an area of great 
   importance to me and has championed Digital's dedication to the highest 
   level of values and ethical standards. His commitment to customer 
   satisfaction and employee involvement will stand as a lasting contribution 
   to Digital.  We're grateful for Win's accomplishments on behalf of the 
   corporation, and we wish him well in his retirement."

    2 digit badge number?
    
    ed

    Win has a 3 digit badge number. It's under 600.
    
    			Alfred

Just who is the longest serving current employee in Digital and what is his/her
badge number?  Does Digital still employ Ken BTW?

                              James.

    
>Just who is the longest serving current employee in Digital and what is his/her
>badge number?  Does Digital still employ Ken BTW?
    
    I believe that Robert Reed has the lowest number of any Digital
    employee. Badge 11.
    
    My understanding is that Ken is officially retired - not employed by
    Digital. Though we do still provide him with an office and office
    support. He's not in ELF FWIW.
    
    			Alfred

>Just who is the longest serving current employee in Digital and what is his/her
>badge number?  Does Digital still employ Ken BTW?

You can find this information yourself.  Get into elf and type F for "find"
then <RETURN>.  Go to the badge field and start with number 1 <GOLD> <ENTER>,
then try 2, 3....  Robert Reed at #11 indeed has the lowest number badge that I
could find.

Jim

re Note 2474.56 by HPCGRP::BURTON:

> You can find this information yourself.  Get into elf and type F for "find"
> then <RETURN>.  Go to the badge field and start with number 1 <GOLD> <ENTER>,
> then try 2, 3....  Robert Reed at #11 indeed has the lowest number badge that I
> could find.
  
        A friend of mine, John Rodenhiser, has a badge number in the
        600's and automated the above to find out where he stood in
        seniority -- he came in at about 25th lowest.

        Bob

 >      A friend of mine, John Rodenhiser, has a badge number in the
 >      600's and automated the above to find out where he stood in
 >      seniority -- he came in at about 25th lowest.

Can you send me a copy of this automated process ...

	PENUTS::PBAXTER

re Note 2474.58 by DASPHB::PBAXTER:

> Can you send me a copy of this automated process ...
> 
> 	PENUTS::PBAXTER
  
        I don't have it (my badge number doesn't warrant it!).

        If you have a command-line version of elf it should be pretty
        easy to iterate over the badge numbers up to some point and
        count the hits.

        Bob

re -last_few

On my ELF there is no Robert Reed?

                           James.

    I suspect you ELF is broken.

$ elph robert reed
              Name:  ROBERT REED
               DTN:  226-2977
    DECnet address:  RDVAX::REED
Internal Mail Addr:  LJO2/E4
          Org Unit:  CORP RESEARCH & ARCH
                    

    Page: 1                        Find an Employee             ELF
    Infobase: 12MANY
    
    Common Name:   ROBERT REED
    Search Surname:  REED  Search Given Name:  ROBERT,  ROBERT J,  BOB
    DTN:  226-2977  Intrnl Mail Addr:  LJO2/E4  Location:  LJO  Node: 
    RDVAX
    Username:  REED  Org Unit:  CORP RESEARCH & ARCH
    
    

    Careful about badge numbers. The only people who see badge numbers are
    the people who have access to VTX servers in Europe. Badge numbers are
    not displayed on VTX servers in the U.S. Displaying badge numbers was a
    requirement for ELF in Europe.
    
     -John (old time ELF maintainer/developer - before VTX)

    	Will we lose with no Win?

re .64

I'm in Europe and I wasn't able to get the info on Mr. Reed by badge number, or
by anything else, for that matter?

                           James.

    RE: robert reed
    
    I went to school with his son and I remember him coming into our first
    grade class and demonstrating something that he designed. If I remember
    correctly it was some sort of computer simulation where you would land
    a rocket. This was back in 73-74 mind you!
    
    Bw...

    
    
    Yup, I remember that too!  I'm #11's daughter....
    
    Cheri (Reed) Flecca

	The demo was known as Lunar Lander  ran on a GT40  a 11/05 based
graphics system. It was a great test, but the landscape of the moon ending up
being burnt into the screen.


Keith

    I just had the unexpected pleasure of meeting Cheri, and in the company
    of her Dad, here in the corridors of MSO2, where she works.  Bob's in
    Corporate Research still (where I had the pleasure of working with him
    for a couple years not so long back), and now (as he's been for awhile)
    working on Intellectual Property Protection.  As well befits someone
    who produced a good deal of such for DEC!  Talk about embodying the
    best of the great and not-quite-departed-thankfully DEC culture, Bob
    is, simply, IT.
    

    
    
>    Yup, I remember that too!  I'm #11's daughter....
    
   ....and your badge number is?...
    
    :-)
    
    Anyway since we're all coming out of the closet here my dark
    secret is that my badge nr is 710601 which is absolutely amazing
    since it is the highest prime combination on 007116 itself
    of course a number of uncommon importance... but I digress..
    what i was curious about is: Have seven hundred and ten thousand
    and six hundred DECeeees (\nasser, \pay \attention) preceded
    me on the road to fame and fortune?
    
    Signed,
    	inquiring minds etc etc

There's a note in here that discusses badge numbers.  They were originally
given out in sequence, so Robert Reed was indeed the eleventh employee.
Later they were allocated to countries and/or sites in blocks.  I know
someone who was hired at the same site as I was perhaps four years later.
His badge number was within 50 of mine.

    
    I'm 213278...  Dad pratically laughed me right out of the room when I
    told him!
    
    Cheri

	I think it's terribly unfair to keep mentioning Mr. Reed's badge
	number - given current trends it's like being deep behind enemy
	lines and waving a flag over his head. ;)

	Larry	(#319213)

	PS: Hi Bob - never met you, I was a customer back when it was fun
	to work here - then I became a Digit just as the door started to
	drop in '90 ... oh well; I'll trust the others that once at least
	the snow didn't slush upon the hillside and by 8am the morning
	fog disappeared.

    A place you'd want your kids to work.
    
    M

    The place that damned near killed their parents

    
    
     My dad Eddie Mayall (badge 84) worked in the Mill for 30 years.  He
    took the first TFSO package and retired.  I'm glad he left when he did.
    I started working for Digital 17 years ago because my dad had worked
    here for years and was always taken care of.  
    
     Life changes but I don't regret following my fathers footsteps. 
    Digital has provided for me as well.
    
    Mark

    RE: .64  by ACTVAX::LEWIS 
    
    >Careful about badge numbers. The only people who see badge numbers are
    >the people who have access to VTX servers in Europe. Badge numbers are
    >not displayed on VTX servers in the U.S. Displaying badge numbers was a
    >requirement for ELF in Europe.
    
    It depends on how you ask for the information.  For example, if you ask
    for Dennis Ahern's badge number, it won't tell you, but if you ask who
    has badge number 303712, it will tell you.
    

	Well, FWIW I was hired on May 1st 1968 in Reading, Berkshire,
England.  As a previous note indicates, "overseas" locations got
pre-allocated blocks.  I think England (or maybe "Europe", since the
European HQ was at Arkwright Road at the time) was assigned >5000 on
the assumption that dec wouldn't need those numbers in the US for the
forseable future.  I got 5316, other people on my PDP 9 course who 
were hired in Maynard around the same time got numbers around 3400 -
giving grief to people with (relatively) high badge numbers was
already in full swing (-:   About a year later I was smug because new
hires were getting 8K series numbers - pretty soon after that
"Ya just didn't talk to them five digit badge folks" (-: 

	Reg	{probably outta here RSN}

    Re .77:
    
    How is Eddie, is he still calling locally or did he fly south }8-)}
    
    Bill

	Sheesh, I feel old at having a 5 digit badge number...

						mike
						96598

      
    >>>         <<< Note 2474.81 by AXEL::FOLEY "Rebel without a Clue" >>>
    
    
    >>>        Sheesh, I feel old at having a 5 digit badge number...
    
    >>>                                                mike
    >>>                                                96598
    
      	Yeah?  You're not THAT old, mine's 23071 and I know a guy hired a
    month or so after me, had 23456 and nobody would believe him!
    
    				Malcolm.

    
    A DECee noted my badge number recently and said with a nervous
    twitter, "My gosh, you're an endangered species!"
    
    -------
    
    At a DECUS symposium a few years back, a session chairperson introduced
    me as having worked at DEC "since it had 8,700 employees." A member of
    the audience called out, "When was that?" Another immediately
    responded, "1995!"
    
    -------
    
    Bill
    20690 -- 07-Mar-1973
    

    i must have like the largest badge number of DEC, iam 314,721  :(
    
    \nasser

>         <<< Note 2474.75 by DECWET::CONNORS "Myles F. Connors Jr." >>>
>                             -< The Old Digital? >-
>
>    A place you'd want your kids to work.
    
    Rather, "this is not your father's Digital."
    
    Mark.

    Nasser,
    
    Not even close.  Mine is 317,430 and I know of lots of people who have 
    larger ones than mine.  Part of it depends on where you were hired, 
    since they distribute badge numbers in batches to different sites.  I
    was hired in February 1990, in Landover, Maryland.
    
    Jim

    re: 77
    
    I worked with Eddie in the Engineering Model Shop on 5-3
    back in '74...a very nice man.   Mark, please tell him I said
    hello.
    
    We also had George Geralds (#12 I think), who retired the same
    time as Eddie. 
    
    Noranne
    #25148
    

    Gosh, this brings back memories.  I worked on 1-3 for Grant Saviers
    back in 72 when I was hired.  We interfaced a lot with George Geralds.
    DEC was a great company then.  Does anyone ever remember breaking into
    Stockrom 17 to get parts to complete a prototype? How about the RP06
    Disk Drives.
    
    I feel really old!
    
    Jane [#17711]

    don't feel old.....I started with the LA30 in Westfield in 1971
    (15192), and I don't feel old at all.  course they say sales leads to
    regressive behavior.. :>)
    

    I joined DEC (which was even then becoming Digital) because I thought
    IBM wouldn't take as good care of me as they did my Dad.  At least I
    can't say I was wrong :-)

re Note 2474.88 by NEMAIL::MCDONALDJ:

>     Does anyone ever remember breaking into
>     Stockrom 17 to get parts to complete a prototype? 

        Wow!  Today one can get fired for sending Email!

        Our ethics sure have progressed in these many years. :-{

        Bob

    re stockroom 17...ah the old days of field service logistics, the
    toxic waste pits of Woburn, fslpic, cd kits, redtag doas, IGOS
    (Intergalactical Goals & Objectives to those not familiar with the 
    term), etc.
    
    Mark
    

	Stockrooms were great.  Remember before logistics and to order a
	part you had to *describe* it or tell them over the phone where
	the part you wanted was located on the computer?  Took a long time
	for part numbers to become useful.

	Charles

    I've been here two years, and I FEEL much older.
    
    Thanks to \nasser for reminding me I am young with the 
    highest badge number to date - 319750.
    
    Anybody who can top that one?
    
    Dan

    Remember when one of the "perks" of being in FSL woburn was doing the 
    inventory. You got to order a pair of those steel toed boots and then
    the let you loose driving a forklift or a platform to count parts at
    the top of the part racks.
    
    Saul
    

    All this badge number stuff is fascinating, but if anyone comes across
    any information as to whom the new head of Ethics will be, I'd love
    to hear it.  I'd look into it, but right now I'm a bit busy with 
    other stuff... DCU issues, employee input to manager's reviews...
    and my regular job, too!
    
    	Thanks,
    	Larry

    Not exactly the lowest, but I wanted to be a part of this string.
    
    Bob (66915)
    

    I think it's neat that folks keep posting their badge numbers
    and hire dates.  It makes it much easier to sell their stock.

    
    
    	Had to put at least one 4-digit number in here..
    
    ed
    PS I don't have any stock to sell, sorry.
    

    what stock?????
    

    If someone *does* sell your stock, you may thank them in a few months!
    
    8-{

Heard that DEC stock is now going to be printed on cigarette paper...

    As alluded to in the Bonus topic, here is how a corporate ethics office
    can work:
    
         Company creates ethics office.  Ethics office publishes
         simplistic, vague articles about ethics in internal
         publications.  Employee does something bad.  Company gets
         sued.  Defense lawyer points to publications and says "Look,
         company told employees to be good."  Company gets off hook,
         maybe even if employee was doing what the company really
         wanted.  Employee takes the fall, may be fired, blacklisted,
         or charged in court.
    
    Obviously, creating this sort of ethics office is one of the most
    unethical things a company can do.  An ethical ethics office exists not
    as a legal strategem but as an office with the power to make changes in
    the company, to compel a bonus as promised, or to call the company to
    account when it makes ethical errors -- BEFORE there is legal action.
    
    Which kind of ethics office does Digital have?  Let the evidence speak.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

I don't think the SLT sees any ethical issue in not paying these bonuses.

Jim

    Am I the only one who has no idea what SLT stands for?
    

	S  enior
	L  eadership
	T  eam

    Even the need for an Ethics Office should have raised flags 

    Even taking a few poles should have raised flags.

    By coincidence, after entering .105 yesterday, I turned on the radio to
    NPR and caught the end of a discussion by an anthropology professor
    about trying to teach ethics to business majors!  I didn't catch much,
    but he didn't sound optimistic about trying to teach right and wrong to
    people who just didn't get it.
    
    I do like the idea of an anthropologist examining business majors as if
    they were curious specimens of a strange breed.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

Date:	 9-SEP-1996 10:26:15.95
From:	TLE::ZEKE::HURLEY "09-Sep-1996 0939 -0400"
Subj:	Ethics Office staff in ZK


     +---------------------------+ TM
     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
     | d | i | g | i | t | a | l |		INTEROFFICE MEMORANDUM
     |   |   |   |   |   |   |   |
     +---------------------------+


     TO:  ZKO Site Distribution			DATE:  9-September 1996
						FROM:  DAVE SMITH
						DEPT:  UNIX Business Operations
						EXT:   381-2460
						LOC:   ZK03-3W20
						ENET:  AOSG::DSMITH
     CC:  Vic Pompa


    Subject:  Ethics Office in ZKO
    
    
    As part of a corporate program, Digital's Ethics Office staff
    will be visiting various sites throughout the year to discuss 
    current ethics issues in Digital and listen to employee opinions. 
    ZKO and MRO have been selected as the first two sites in this program.

    Accordingly, one of Ethics Office staff will be in ZKO on each of the 
    next four Tuesday mornings from 9:00 to 12:00.  I encourage all 
    of you who are interested to stop into the office to listen and to 
    express your views.  No appointment is necessary.
    
    The location and times are as follows.
    
    Date      Time 	     Place
    	      	   
    9/10      9AM - Noon     Aiken Conference Room (ZKO1-1/F3C)
    9/17      9AM - Noon     Aiken Conference Room (ZKO1-1/F3C)
    9/24      9AM - Noon     Aiken Conference Room (ZKO1-1/F3C)
    10/1      9AM - Noon     Aiken Conference Room (ZKO1-1/F3C)
    
     
Thanks,

Dave