T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
2394.1 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Mon Mar 01 1993 14:45 | 101 |
2394.2 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Mon Mar 01 1993 14:45 | 93 |
2394.3 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Mon Mar 01 1993 17:04 | 82 |
| Munich, 26-Feb-93
Dear Employees,
Recently a number of flyers have been distributed which indicate that
IGM will go on strike against our company unless we agree to their demand
for a contract.
With respect to this and to the plans for a strike as well, we would
like to communicate the following to you in order to explain your situation
and our position:
1. It is legal for a union to go on strike against an employer in order
to achieve certain demands.
2. It is legal for an employer as a countermeasure -- in the case of
negative impact on the ability to do work -- to implement a lockout.
3. In any case during the period of the above mentioned measures neither
striking workers nor those who are locked out will be paid salary or
benefits.
4. In addition, during the period of the dispute, there will be no salary
continuation for either striking workers or those who are locked out.
5. The days of the strike or lockout may not be counted as vacation days
-- requests for vacation during the dispute must be denied.
6. In addition, you should also know that the following regulations for
a strike must be followed to the letter:
a. The union may only call a strike if a so-called "initial vote" on
the matter has been carried out among the union members within the
company.
b. The strike may also only be ended in the same manner (as "a.").
c. So-called "warning strikes" may also only be called by the union.
Workers representatives who, for example, call out for a strike in
the workers meeting, may be disciplined. Be reminded that employees
who participate in a warning strike during the main working hours
will also have corresponding deductions made from their compensation.
d. In any case, picketing may only take place off company property.
Distribution of flyers by the union may also only take place off
company propery.
e. Preparation for a strike as well may not take place on company
property.
f. Also forbidden is any access to company property or the use of
any company facilities (including parking places, cafeterias, or any
other facility) by striking or locked out workers.
g. As long as no lockout has been declared, all workers who are willing
to work have free access to company property and may -- when leaving as
well -- be neither hindered nor threatened. Accesses may not be
blocked.
h. In addition, the employer has the right to permit emergency service
work to be carried out by the personnel necessary for that task. This
may also apply to a striking worker.
In any case, we hope that the union will be reasonable during this
recessionary time and place its completely extravagant demands on ice,
think them over, and withdraw them, for we cannot be accused that we
as the persons responsible for the company are not carrying out our
reorganisation measures in accordance with the framework of the social
contract common in our country -- or even much better, in fact.
Furthermore, disruption of our conduct of business, in particular in
the response-critical customer service area will not contribute to job
security -- it will endanger the continuity of our customer relationships
and thereby only serve the competition!
If you have any questions concerning this, please turn to your responsible
functional area manager or subsidiary director or on your personnel manager
or personnel representative.
With friendly greetings,
Hans W. Dirkmann Burkhard Vogel
|
2394.4 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Mon Mar 01 1993 17:30 | 64 |
2394.5 | | MIMS::PARISE_M | Southern, but no comfort | Mon Mar 01 1993 20:02 | 7 |
|
I have not read anywhere that there was a problem with or resistance to
any employee reductions in Germany. With the Ireland-Scotland debate,
even reductions in the U. S. seemed less than disasterous. Is this the
first workforce reductions to impact Germany? This seems to be a little
more serious than mere "posturing" by the corporation.
|
2394.6 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Tue Mar 02 1993 08:04 | 14 |
|
Germany has only recently started going into recession, our German sub
made a loss for the first time ever last quarter.
German interest rates were lowered recently, and are rumoured to be cut
again this week to stimulate some recovery.
The social aspects of work are very high in many EEC countries, and most
have signed up for the social charter (not the UK).
With this, and the impacts of unification, Germany, although it may be
better off than most countries, is going through very trying times.
Heather
|
2394.7 | Guessing why... | BEAGLE::BREICHNER | | Tue Mar 02 1993 12:15 | 16 |
| Too bad that we don't get the news directly from our German collegues,
but .0 etc would indicate that as a new wave of layoffs approaches
the "Betriebsrat" (= worker's council) has less confidence in their
ability of definding the worker's interest in the layoff negotiations
and therfore asked the union for support. Or were they shortcut
by the worker's base ?
In any case, I'd support whoever brings in some creativity and new
ways of "downsizing" labor than the old and repeated ad infinitum
"headcutting" based on dubious selection criteria (if any).
I'm thinking in terms of voluntary and well controlled
pay-cut, incentives to take non-paid long leave for studies etc...
From what I've seen in France, such initiatives do not originate
within unions nor company management, but the employees themselves.
One example beeing Hewlett & Packard ....
/fred
|
2394.8 | 'layoffs' are continuing | RTOVC8::UFASOLD | auf in' Augustiner | Tue Mar 02 1993 14:29 | 18 |
| Hi from Munich!
Today we had a s called "Betriebsversammlung" here in Munich.
The employees meet with the workers counsil and members of the
management and they are presented with the 'latest' news.
I'll try to get a summary together till tomorrow and post it
here. The most importend facts are:
- the layoffs are continuing (second round)
- there's a one hour 'warning' strike tomorrow
more later
Uli
|
2394.9 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Tue Mar 02 1993 14:35 | 46 |
2394.10 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Tue Mar 02 1993 14:47 | 2 |
| Notes collision..
|
2394.11 | | GVA05::STIFF | Paul Stiff DCS, DTN:821-4167 | Wed Mar 03 1993 05:11 | 4 |
| Did the employees vote to strike ? or is this just following the
union's call ?
Paul
|
2394.12 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Wed Mar 03 1993 06:24 | 7 |
| No, not yet - German law doesn't require union votes for warning
strikes (as far as I know).
Obviously, they're going to vote with their feet - either they come, or
they don't. (It's close to 9:30AM here, it's snowing and the temperature
is just around freezing). We'll see soon...
|
2394.13 | Cologne | COL01::LELIE | I/O in progress | Wed Mar 03 1993 08:08 | 11 |
| Hi,
our 'warning' strike just ended. An overwhelming lot of colleagues 'voted
with their feet'.
Exact numbers are not yet available, but I'll try to get them before my
customer date this afternoon...
Best regards,
-Peter
|
2394.14 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Wed Mar 03 1993 08:23 | 6 |
2394.15 | Approx. 200 strikers in COO (Cologne) | COL01::LELIE | I/O in progress | Wed Mar 03 1993 09:43 | 19 |
2394.16 | is the union trying to force layoffs or prevent them? | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Wed Mar 03 1993 10:40 | 15 |
| I don't know what sites in Germany are manufacturing besides
Kaufbeuren. But if I were senior management a warning strike might
make me think that perhaps I'd be better off building things in
Galway than in Kaufbeuren. Let's face it, it's not like Digital has
a shortage of people and manufacturing space right now.
Can we assume that finding new jobs is so easy in Germany that the
union doesn't have to worry about a strike making Digital decide to
make still bigger cuts? I suspect that in the US, especially New
England, Digital could replace lots of people a lot easier than people
let go could find new jobs. Though German law may make replacing
strikers harder than it would be in the US there are ways around most
things.
Alfred
|
2394.17 | | SUBURB::THOMASH | The Devon Dumpling | Wed Mar 03 1993 11:00 | 28 |
|
A report on German economy and social policy reported in the Daily Mail,
reproduced without permission.....
Helmut Khol was accused yesterday by one of its own banks cheifs of
sabotaging the world economy with his bad management of Germany's
finances.
In a condemnation of Bonn's failure to hold off recession, Bundesbank
vice-president Hans Tietmeyer urged the chancellor and his government
to "get our own house in order".
"An ailing German economy is a burden on other countries" he said.
"Germany must recognise its responsibilities for the European and the
world economy".
A quick and lasting revision of Germany's expensive social policy
should be top priority, warned the bank chief.
During protracted nogotiations under the Solidarity Pact, the unions
have moderated wage claims, industriel chiefs have promised more
investment in East germany, but Bonn has failed to secure cuts in both
the central budget and those of the 16 regional states.
Cancellor Khol meets the state leaders next week for showdown talks on
their budgets.
Heather
|
2394.18 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Wed Mar 03 1993 11:19 | 53 |
2394.19 | moving is not an issue | COWBOY::DUFRESNE | | Wed Mar 03 1993 11:19 | 9 |
| Alfred,
The issue here is about taking care of people. You just don't "dump" people out
with a package, have a good and better luck elsewhre as in the US.
There is a substantially stronger "group feeling" here. This is what is the
more fundamental message in the action.
md
|
2394.20 | Whole different approach | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Wed Mar 03 1993 11:50 | 3 |
| Again, contrast *this* action against BTO/SPO/TFO/......
Marc H.
|
2394.21 | | XLIB::SCHAFER | Mark Schafer, ISV Tech. Support | Wed Mar 03 1993 13:20 | 12 |
| What contrast? If you ask me, this sounds like the position we were in
5 years ago. (Okay, so there wasn't a strike.) The US economy was
slowing down and Digital began to realize that it wasn't expanding
at the rate that we were used to.
We had a "no layoff policy."
We offered early retirement.
We tried to retrain and reassign people.
I think there are many similarities.
Mark
|
2394.22 | Best wishes from Galway | TRIBES::LBOYLE | Act first think later then apologise | Wed Mar 03 1993 16:20 | 7 |
|
I'd like to convey my best wishes to the German workers who supported
the strike call. I don't know how effective their action can be, but
sometimes its important to just register a protest.
Liam
|
2394.23 | Guess I'm just a scab at heart | 11SRUS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Wed Mar 03 1993 22:19 | 8 |
| The sympathy for this action in this topic is disgusting.
I just got a piece of chain mail that's being forwarded around the E-net
from some yoyo in Germany who's dealing out kudos to the German strikers.
Unbelieveable!
-Jack
|
2394.24 | I don't know how to feel, or what to think | CSC32::MORTON | Aliens, the snack food of CHAMPIONS! | Wed Mar 03 1993 22:42 | 9 |
|
I have some really STRONG MIXED feelings in BOTH directions. I keep
thinking one thing over and over:
"For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction"
It will be interesting to see what that reaction turns out to be...
Jim Morton
|
2394.25 | | MU::PORTER | savage pencil | Thu Mar 04 1993 01:59 | 5 |
| re .23
Why is it "disgusting" if a group of employees seeks to
look after its own interests?
|
2394.26 | Terminology ? | GVA05::STIFF | Paul Stiff DCS, DTN:821-4167 | Thu Mar 04 1993 05:03 | 5 |
| re .23
What is a Yoyo ? What is a kudos ?
Paul
|
2394.27 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Thu Mar 04 1993 06:47 | 20 |
2394.28 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Thu Mar 04 1993 06:50 | 22 |
2394.29 | Being a scab is OK - Just respect the others | COWBOY::DUFRESNE | | Thu Mar 04 1993 07:42 | 20 |
| yoyo=nut=crazy person
kudos=congratulations
msg to mr Delbaso: Careful with the language. What was done here is is perfectly
resaonable. Remember the DEC Germany has a union contract. And so does DEC
France.The employees there have a (formal) vehicle to express their concerns
and frustrations. There are exercising their rights. You don't have to agree
with it but you are expected to respect it.
Keep in mind the first amendement to your (US) constitution.
And yes, this kind of action is a very emotional process. Sometimes you need to
go through that process before you can start thinking straight.
Msg to our German colleagues: DEC France will laying of 450 people and
reclassifying 150 (out of a current population of 3056). The process and the
number where negotiated with the worker reps, without conflict.
Food for thought..
md
|
2394.30 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Thu Mar 04 1993 10:41 | 20 |
| RE: .28
> re .23: Thank you for your sympathy with your colleagues!
What makes you think Jack doesn't have sympathy for his colleagues?
The fact that he doesn't support a strike? That's ridiculous.
I have lots of sympathy for people being laid off. I've had a lot of
friends and co workers laid off over the last 2 years. It's very sad.
This is one reason why I do not support strikes. I believe that the
main result of strikes is less profit and more layoffs. Management, in
memos posted earlier in this topic, claims that the packages that have
and will be offered are better then many others in Germany. If true, I
don't see the gripe. If not true, and I've seen no denial yet, than I
have no confidence in a union to "fix" it. Of course that may be based
on my own experience with US unions as well as what I've heard about
German unions elsewhere in this conference. I don't see either as a
positive force at all interested in the company being profitable.
Alfred
|
2394.31 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Thu Mar 04 1993 10:56 | 14 |
| re .30: If .23 has any sympathy with his German colleagues , he
certainly didn't express it. Finding the sympathy with an action
supported by the majority of the employees disgusting doesn't exactly
imply otherwise.
(To be more exact, I should say colleagues in Germany, because there
is a fair percentage of non-German employees here).
Yes, the package may be better than many others in Germany, and/or
better than what Digital offers in ther countries - but that's not the
point, and not the reason for the strike. The people don't want the
package, they'd prefer keeping their jobs.
|
2394.32 | I'd heard that the form of the package was the issue | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Thu Mar 04 1993 11:06 | 9 |
| >and not the reason for the strike. The people don't want the
> package, they'd prefer keeping their jobs.
Well, you lost me on this one. If people would rather have jobs why
would they get involved in an action, a strike, that is almost by
definition going to make it harder for the company to make enough
money to keep people on?
Alfred
|
2394.33 | yoyo=I_can't_say_it_here | 11SRUS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Thu Mar 04 1993 11:22 | 21 |
| re: Marc and Ora
It's not a question of sympathy. Sympathy belongs with those who have lost
their positions involuntarily, not with those who put their own necks on
the block. My (extensive) experience with (American) unions is that they do
more harm than good. It may very well be that workers in Germany would
prefer to have their jobs than the attractive packages being offered. My
philosophy (and I admit to being ignorant of German laws/customs), is that
unless you're in a position to influence management to keep the jobs
through rational means (say, if the company were employee owned), then
you need to roll with the punches. Some quotes that come to mind include,
"You found the door in - it swings both ways" and "If you can't stand the
heat, get out of the kitchen". If the workers are unsatisfied they should
take the initiative to quit and go elsewhere. Hiding behind the legality
of a union action to make a statement is ridiculous. I'm sure their point
has already been heard anyway, and the answer was apparently "NO". What
could be more clear?
I agree with Alfred - maybe DEC Europe should seek a different environment.
-Jack
|
2394.34 | | SDSVAX::SWEENEY | Patrick Sweeney in New York | Thu Mar 04 1993 11:31 | 12 |
| I think it's important to keep in mind that different people approach
this with different attitudes.
Company, unions, and employees share the same interests.
Company and employees share the same interests.
Company and unions share the same interests. (screw the employees)
Unions and employees share the same interests.
Company, unions, and employees do not share that same interests.
|
2394.35 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Thu Mar 04 1993 13:04 | 21 |
| re .32:
The package as such was not the issue. There's a contract made between
the Works Council (not the union) and the company about the package,
signed last spring (sometime in April if my memory doesn't fail me).
The contract was supposed to be in effect until end of June 1994. While
there was some dispute about this, it was settled long before the
warning strike.
Other than that, I don't think you should overestimate the effect of a
strike on the profitability of the company. If we supposedly have too
many heads anyway, the majority of them taking unpaid time off should
actually improve profits, shouldn't it? (BTW, the warning strike was
~1 hour).
The whole culture and history of unions in Germany is quite different
from US, or even UK, so any comparisons tend to be rather futile. Also,
note that (according to the local newspaper) an estimated 25-30% of DEC
employees here are unionized; simple arithmetic shows that a large
percentage of the strikers were not union members.
|
2394.36 | | GRANMA::MWANNEMACHER | c'mon springtime | Thu Mar 04 1993 13:25 | 11 |
|
So you'd rather have full employment until the whole corporation goes
out of business and then everyone would be out of a job without any
kind of package at all? Maybe the reason that there is little to no
understanding over here is because we've been going through TFSOs for
going on three years now, it is kind of hard to be understanding when
you have been put through this kind of thing.
Mike
|
2394.37 | Cost/man has several variables... | BEAGLE::BREICHNER | | Thu Mar 04 1993 14:34 | 16 |
| re .36
This is EXACTLY what .34 pointed out...
It all depends how you interpret our collegues in Germany's motivation
for the strike.
As far as I understood, they are not that stupid to believe that they
would win with "full employment" but they guess that they could
get management to negotiate about other/supplementary forms of reducing the
payroll.
Did I miss anything ?
Does DIGITAL want and need to reduce the personnel cost overhead
or simply the number of "heads", which used to be until not that
long ago the "company's most valuable assets".
BTW: I heard that in the latest french plan there are indeed incentives
built in for part time work which would proof that "cutting heads"
isn't the only way to reduce the payroll...
/fred
|
2394.38 | part-time work in frsance is IN ADDITION to layoffs | COWBOY::DUFRESNE | | Thu Mar 04 1993 14:56 | 17 |
| The layoff in France will occur. The part time work program is above and beyond
It is voluntary and lasts for two years.
You eithre go on 4/5th time or 3/5th time. Those over 55 can got on half time as
early retirement but that is permanent. You get a one time cash incentive based
on years of service to participate.
There are legal incentives in the French labour (no social charges ie benefits
portion to be paid by the employer). And believe me they are stiff (45% of
employee gross pay). Employee sees about 30% of his base salary go away on
social charges. Income tax is extra.
Things like that drive on way to solve the problem.
The situation in Germany is different. SO they solve it their way.
It's also influenced by internal political and economic factors.
md
|
2394.39 | | MU::PORTER | savage pencil | Thu Mar 04 1993 15:21 | 6 |
| So, the way I read some of the replies to this note, the opinion
here is that, if you disagree (for any reason) with the methods by
which management are proposing to restore DEC to profitability,
then you should make your views known by simply leaving the
company, rather than by using whatever formal, legal means
are available to you as an employee?
|
2394.40 | IMHO | FROZEN::CHERSON | the door goes on the right | Thu Mar 04 1993 15:59 | 39 |
|
re: -1
I think the point was made that the union had a contract whose terms
were supposed to be in place until June of 1994, not 1993.
re: this "whole ball of wax"
I'd just like to make a few points in regards to our current situation,
the high-tech industry, and unions. First of all labor strife is not
going to solve our current fiscal situation vis-a-vis headcount. The
factors that have affected DEC's profitability have to be identified
and addressed, if not then TFSO will be a permanent exercise. For the
past several years DEC structure kep t getting more bloated and no one
was saying a word about it, and now we're feeling the pain.
Secondly there are those who will take the time to malign labor unions
based on their bias and opinions. Unions have contributed much to our
society, many of the rules governing working conditions are the result
of the struggles fought by unions in this century. I'm not commenting
on the current state of American unions either positive or negative,
there are a few unions that are actually working for the benefit of
employees, others not.
The high-tech industry has always taken a negative view towards unions.
Instead companies have preferred the paternalistic approach, we'll take
care of you, etc., and contracted hundreds of so-called organizational
development specialists to conduct touchy-feely seminars during our
work days, and what did this get us? Nothing, they're gone and have
left their droppings on our roofs... And I hate to think of the money
spent on these "consultants", perhaps some people's jobs in Galway or
elsewhere could have been saved if this process had been monitored over
the years?
I'm not advocating at-large unionization of Digital as an answer to our
current situation. But persistance of belief in the "me vs. the world"
mythology isn't an answer either.
/d.c.
|
2394.41 | My kids never got away with it | 11SRUS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Thu Mar 04 1993 16:04 | 23 |
| re: .39, Porter
Well, I can't speak for anyone's opinion other than my own, obviously, but
I wouldn't say that in general I think people should "vote with their feet"
_IF_ they haven't had an opportunity to have their views heard.
This doesn't look like such a case, though. They (the German workers through
their guild) have had the opportunity to express their concerns already in
negotiations/contractual dealings, etc. As I said in .33, their point has
already been made. And the response has been issued and it was "NO".
That should (for me at least) settle the matter and leave it to be time
to be truckin' on if I still didn't like it. This "demo strike" or whatever
it's called is nothing short of a tantrum - pure and simple. It's the
work force saying, "We said how we felt about it before and we didn't like
your response so now we're going to say it again, only LOUDER!"
What point does that serve? It's not a question of people resorting to
legal mechanisms available to them, in my mind. It's a matter of them
having had an opportunity to present their view already, but acting
like spoiled children in an attempt to get their way.
-Jack
|
2394.42 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | No Pentium inside | Fri Mar 05 1993 05:35 | 18 |
2394.43 | | STKCSC::AHLGREN | The elephants are restless again... | Fri Mar 05 1993 06:46 | 7 |
| For those interested in layoff figures...
Sweden peaked a few heads over 1200 two-three years back. After the
downsizing last week we're down to 750 which makes a decrese of
about 37%...
Paul.
|
2394.44 | The reason behind... | HAMSUP::BAUCH | WELL NEIJ WILL DIEKEN,DE MUTT WIEKEN | Mon Mar 08 1993 06:37 | 16 |
| To make one point clear,the work force reduction of 425 heads was
a very minor issue for that "strike".The main reason behind was
the situation of contracts or better the ones we don't have for the
comming restructioring,founding of new smaller units (G.m.B.H.=limited)
and what will happen to the people.What about there pension,what about
an ERP-program and so on and the German law says clearly that
everything which is typically part of a contract between employer
and a Union can not be subject of a treaty between employer and
the Worker Counsil.Please do not assume here in Germany work mostly
dumb nuts or communist fighters,take it just as to have said:it is
a difficult time and it's that how far we proceed.By the way,in
Hamburg we were supported by an IBM delegation,carrying a transparent
saying:heute Ihr,morgen wir(today it's you,tomorrow we are concerned).
Sorry,with better English I could express myself much more appropriate.
MfG
Joachim
|
2394.45 | | TOMK::KRUPINSKI | The Clinton Disaster, Day 47 | Mon Mar 08 1993 11:48 | 7 |
| Of course the IBM folks supported the job action - More strikes of
Digital employees means a lessened ability of Digital to support
customers, which in turn means more business for IBM, which means
that *those* folks will have a better chance of keeping *their* jobs...
No wonder they are in favor of Digital going on strike...
Tom_K
|
2394.46 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Mon Mar 08 1993 12:29 | 4 |
| RE: .45 I thought the same thing. I know I'd support IBM people going
out on strike. :-)
Alfred
|
2394.47 | | MU::PORTER | savage pencil | Mon Mar 08 1993 14:39 | 11 |
| > Of course the IBM folks supported the job action - More strikes of
> Digital employees means a lessened ability of Digital to support
> customers, which in turn means more business for IBM, which means
> that *those* folks will have a better chance of keeping *their* jobs...
> No wonder they are in favor of Digital going on strike...
And there, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with
U.S. society today.
"Screw you, Jack, I've got mine".
|
2394.48 | | MIMS::PARISE_M | Southern, but no comfort | Mon Mar 08 1993 15:03 | 9 |
|
Let us not confuse what seems to be legitimate long term concerns, not
only for our fellow employees in Digital, but also those in other
companies in similar circumstances. The "today it's you; tomorrow it's
us" motto is a laudable statement of "solidarity."
In the case of this nutshell, it is a tough one to crack.
|
2394.49 | | VCSESU::BRANAM | Steve, VAXcluster Sys Supp Eng LTN2 226-6056 | Mon Mar 08 1993 15:24 | 14 |
| I agree that the labor action in Germany is probably a futile gesture,
but I can sympathize with it, even if it is only complaining that they
are unhappy with the situation. You can never expect change if you don't
say anything about the current state of affairs. If that's complaining,
so be it. The alternative is to lay down and be steamrolled by every
situation that you disagree with. Flexibility is a relative term. You
have to bend to the world, but you also have to stand up for yourself.
Therein lies room to negotiate.
While I personally would probably choose a different means, if
I were told I was about to be laid off, I would pursue every productive
avenue available to avoid it. I might just be spinning my wheels
uselessly, but I would keep it up until they escorted me out the door.
That's simple survival.
|
2394.50 | TO OUR FELLOW MEMBERS OF THE DIGITAL FAMILY IN GERMANY | NYAAPS::CORBISHLEY | David Corbishley 321-5128 | Mon Mar 08 1993 17:34 | 13 |
| Thanks to all those that have provided information on the situation in various
european countries, especially Germany. I am embarrassed by some of the replies
to see that some of us have forgotten about being human. As an employee of ANY
company we all desire to be treated fairly and to feel secure that if we perform
as we promise, that the employer will also.
My group has lost a number of people. Some have founds jobs or started business,
other are still unemployed. One had to sell his home and move in with his
parents to best protect his family. I think we can all empathise with the need
to care for ones family.
While it is easy to say our competitors will gain from our misfortune, given
IBM's announced layoff plan , I feel such beliefs are 'short sighted'.
|
2394.51 | | TOMK::KRUPINSKI | The Clinton Disaster, Day 47 | Mon Mar 08 1993 17:57 | 19 |
| > <<< Note 2394.47 by MU::PORTER "savage pencil" >>>
>
>> Of course the IBM folks supported the job action - More strikes of
>> Digital employees means a lessened ability of Digital to support
>> customers, which in turn means more business for IBM, which means
>> that *those* folks will have a better chance of keeping *their* jobs...
>> No wonder they are in favor of Digital going on strike...
>
>
> And there, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with
> U.S. society today.
>
> "Screw you, Jack, I've got mine".
>
Would you kindly explain the logic underlying that conclusion.
Tom_K
|
2394.52 | the world across the pond is different | HAMSUP::BAUCH | WELL NEIJ WILL DIEKEN,DE MUTT WIEKEN | Tue Mar 09 1993 04:48 | 7 |
| I almost hate to carry on this discussion.Some try to
understand,gathering information while other stick in there hidebound
obstinacy.It is foolish to think that IBM did send an official dele-
gation,no,a few IBM empoyees did come in there spare time to sho
us there sympathy for this typ of action,to bring the employer at
the table for negotitions.That's it.
J.
|
2394.53 | Restructuring & Digital-PCS Systemtechnik GmbH | UFHIS::MMCCREADY | Mike McCready Digital-PCS | Tue Mar 09 1993 05:17 | 16 |
| Re: .44
Until 25th January 1993 I worked for Digital Equipment GmbH, the
Digital German subsidiary. From this date onwards I and all other
employees of the EIC were transferred to a newly formed company called
Digital-PCS Systemtechnik GmbH which was a "rename" of PCS GmbH. The
official headcount is 245. PCS GmbH was part of what the Digital
Corporation took over when it bought Mannesmann-Kienzle.
Since part of the discussion in this string is about restructuring, I
thought I would add the information that our pension plan continues
just as if we had stayed with Digital Equipment GmbH. We are no longer
able to buy Digital stock but it has been said that we will be
compensated in cash for the loss of this benefit.
Mike
|
2394.54 | yes, there definitely are differences. | NASAU::GUILLERMO | But the world still goes round and round | Tue Mar 09 1993 15:34 | 9 |
|
re:.52
I'm in no position to judge your actions, that's why I've refrained
from comment.
Generally I look at unions like I look at affirmative action.
If everyone played by the rules we wouldn't need backup.
|
2394.55 | We want to talk about this! | FROCKY::MANNERINGS | | Wed Mar 10 1993 16:17 | 75 |
| Hallo,
After reading all the notes under this topic I feel there is a lack of
information about the aims of those Digital employees organising the strike.
As a member of the Frankfurt Works-Council at Digital and also a member of the
union committee perhaps I can help.
Here are a few points which may be of interest:
- The union committee of the IGMetall which has called for strike action
consists of 25 Digital employees, several of them have been with Digital for 15
years or more. There are three union officials in the committee with an
advisory role, they don't have voting rights. The decision to call a warning
strike was unanimous. The whole point of short warning strikes is to establish
whether the employees support the demands of the union and "vote with their
feet." The idea is also to give the employer a chance to negotiate without a
full strike after a union ballot. We were pleasantly surprised by the amount of
support we recieved. We hope that Robert Palmer will now realise that we are
serious and will allow Hans Dirkmann to negotiate a sensible contract with us.
This would, we believe, give Digital flexibility and stability in Germany.
- The demands we are making in the labour contract were developed in meetings
of up to 80 Digital employees all over Germany who then engaged in discussions
with the rest of the company. This is a dynamic process which is continuing and
will continue during negotiations. Top management at Digital would be well
advised to read the contract carefully. There is nothing in it which makes your
hair fall out, it is a basis for negotiations. Incidentally this contract
represents a new departure for the IGMetall. Only a few companies such as
Volkswagen have tailormade contracts, but that is what we, the Digital
employees in the union wanted.
- The most important point we are making is that we believe that Digital in
Germany has been very sucessful in the past and can be sucessful in the future.
The strength of the Deutschmark has meant that we have always had an above
average contribution margin. We are also ideally placed to take advantage of
the hugh markets which have opened up in eastern Europe and the former Soviet
Union. Many of us are disappointed and angry that invaluable personell,
organisational and facility resources are being squandered in a chaotic and
expensive manner. We are convinced millions of dollars have beeen wasted
through bad management and short term panic measures. (I could go on at length
about this but it would not be appropriate.) It is surprising but true:
we are demanding an organisational task force which plans in advance and
discusses its activities with us. We feel that those currently taking decisions
which will determine the state of the company for the rest of the century do
not realise how much potential there is in Germany, and we have little
understanding for the previous European Vice-President, Mr Fallotti,
who left the company so suddenly.
- we are calling for a guarantee for the pay and conditions of digital
employees who are transferred to other companies, a guarantee for the
accepted standards of pay and conditions in the industry, and a variety
of alternatives to redundancy packages.
- IBM, Siemens-Nixdorf, Unisys, and Digital-Kienzle all have labour contracts
with the IGMetall. Why not the Digital Equipment GmbH ?
- Having taken part in many many discussions and meetings on this subject I am
absolutely convinced that the company will have to sign a contract with us
sooner or later, so the management might as well do it sooner than later.
The energy and conviction of those involved is impressive.
- The trade union culture in Germany is very different to that in other
countries. Closed shops are illegal. People join the union because they want
to. This means that the union is pluralistic and open. The IGMetall has a
christian-democatic, liberal, social-democratic and socialist tradition which
crosses party-political boundaries. It has 3,5 million members and all union
officials are elected by the members every three years. This culture was
developed after the unions were reestablished in 1945, in order never to repeat
the mistakes which were made in 1933, when a divided democracy failed to stop
the national socialists.
Well, I hope this information will help the discussion along!
best wishes, Kevin Mannerings
|
2394.57 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Tue Jun 15 1993 11:19 | 3 |
| The 'regular' strike has started yesterday in Berlin. According to last
night's TV news (ARD, Tagesthemen) 100 DEC employees in Berlin are on
strike. (I don't know how many emplyees we have there though).
|
2394.58 | | HAAG::HAAG | Rode hard. Put up wet. | Wed Jun 16 1993 00:20 | 3 |
| would you people in germany please continue with your assessments of
what is happening. many of us here in the US hear NOTHING about this
except via this medium. and we thank you for your efforts.
|
2394.59 | Status 16-Jun-93 16:40 | COL01::LELIE | I/O in progress | Wed Jun 16 1993 14:45 | 14 |
| Hi, on request some information:
Presently the strikes are in Berlin, Hamburg, Hannover and Bremen.
According to well informed sources tomorrow at least Cologne, Essen
and Bonn will join.
Upper management still(?) refuses to start negotiations.
Rgds,
-Peter (DEC Cologne)
PS: I guess I will not be able to enter anything here within the next
few days...
|
2394.60 | | EVMS::GODDARD | | Wed Jun 16 1993 15:26 | 2 |
| Just curious...is this the first time DEC, in any country,
has ever had a strike?
|
2394.61 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Wed Jun 16 1993 16:45 | 3 |
| To the best of my knowledge, yes (except a few warning strikes at least
here in Germany, and some other European countries I think).
|
2394.62 | A view from Hannover | 50217::PAULSON | Bob Paulson @HAO, DTN 863-5207 | Thu Jun 17 1993 08:52 | 47 |
| At least what seems to be a majority of us here in Hannover are
against this strike. I estimate about maybe 20% of the people
here are striking, which would represent about most of the
IGMetall members. The flyers say 41 people, but I don't see
that many outside. They seem to all congregate around the
garage and main entrance in the morning but then as the day
wears on, they wander off into their big tent(!) in the back.
Of course people have a right to strike if they want, but those
of us who are not members of this union were not asked, so we
feel that the Worker's Council who is supposedly representing
us is not acting in our interests. A comment was made on the
respected German TV news program Tagesthemen that the
Metalworkers' Union desperately needs new members, so they are
attempting to get a foot into the computer industry.
The reasons for the strike - as I understand it - are
officially to avoid losing benefits when the German subsidiary
breaks up into a holding with several companies hanging off it.
When asked on the TV report, a colleague in Berlin replied that
she was striking to get more training, "which she needs,
especially at her age". With all respect, I could only think
"get a life!" If I want to improve my own market value, then I
want to look after this myself, thank you.
It also appears to me that most of the people on strike here do
not have first-line responsibility with customers, that is,
they are not the ones to take the heat when things like
delivery dates and installation dates stop working. We are
getting calls from concerned customers asking if these dates
will be held. [There is a story that someone from IG Metall (a
Digital customer by the way) actually called our Dresden office
during the strike and asked for a service technician to come
for an installation, but were told that they would have to wait
until after the strike!]
Anyway, if I were for example a customer of a heating company
and had a maintenance contract with them, and my heater went
out and it was the middle of winter and I was freezing, and I
called the company and they said "sorry, we're on strike", I
would certainly call another company and send the first one the
bill. And then I would cancel my service contract.
So I can't imagine that this will help the current situation
any.
Just my humble opinion.
|
2394.63 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Thu Jun 17 1993 11:14 | 15 |
2394.64 | Uniionized to what degree? | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Jun 17 1993 12:38 | 20 |
2394.65 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Thu Jun 17 1993 12:51 | 8 |
2394.66 | if you want to dwell on technicalities | 50217::PAULSON | Bob Paulson @HAO, DTN 863-5207 | Thu Jun 17 1993 14:45 | 10 |
| re .63-.64
well, if about 800 (and not all of them) out of 3000 constitutes a
democracy, then I must have missed something :-)
I guess I'm still used to the good ol' American town meeting kind of
democracy.
- Bob
|
2394.67 | | HLFS00::CHARLES | The wizzard from Oss | Thu Jun 17 1993 15:08 | 10 |
| re.66
Minor nit,but it's 800 out of 800.
The union wants to call a strike and the union members have to vote on
it. Actually, only unions can call a strike. Workers councils can't.
If they vote "yes" the union members go on strike and are not allowed
(at least here in Holland) to hinder people who do not want to strike.
If the employer decides not to pay for the days people have been on
strike usually the union pays (part of) the salary.
Charles
|
2394.68 | | LEVERS::PLOUFF | Stars reel in a rollicking crew | Thu Jun 17 1993 15:44 | 11 |
| re: .62 customer concerns about effects of strike
Strike. [American Heritage Dictionary definition] A work stoppage by
employees in support of demands made upon their employer.
Why strikes succeed [personal opinion]: Loss of production and/or
disruption of normal business practices cause economic impact on
employer too great to ignore. OF COURSE customers are concerned. That
is an intended consequence of the strike.
Wes
|
2394.69 | at town meetings VERY small numbers speak for all | LGP30::FLEISCHER | without vision the people perish (381-0899 ZKO2-2/T63) | Thu Jun 17 1993 17:56 | 13 |
| re Note 2394.66 by 50217::PAULSON:
> well, if about 800 (and not all of them) out of 3000 constitutes a
> democracy, then I must have missed something :-)
>
> I guess I'm still used to the good ol' American town meeting kind of
> democracy.
You obviously haven't been to a "good ol' American town
meeting" lately. I have. It's more like 60 to 130 out of
2000 eligible voters.
Bob
|
2394.70 | Ok, let's start another rat hole | 50217::PAULSON | Bob Paulson @HAO, DTN 863-5207 | Fri Jun 18 1993 06:18 | 22 |
| After seeing the picture of my colleagues holding up their
signs and marching through the center of Hannover in the paper
this morning, I couldn't help thinking that they are no less
just numbers and heads to the management of the IG Metall union
than we are to Digital management. The union has their own
political goals which they want to follow and I think a lot of
people are being used here. Of course it takes two...
This week's "Spiegel" referred to the "highly paid and
well-educated... and noble unionists" of Digital. I guess it's
a new world. I'm not sure where all this is leading, however.
Some people yesterday, while we were being shouted/chorused at
by our colleagues outside, were wondering how the working
atmosphere will be after we are all back at work. One person
mentioned that she was beginning to feel quite aggressive about
the whole thing, being heckled for coming to work and all that,
but as someone mentioned here, I guess we're supposed to feel
this :-) I would just prefer that we all keep cool heads. I
have this feeling of being a pawn in a much larger game, but I
suppose y'all will say "welcome to the world".
- Bob
|
2394.71 | The union pays some salary substitute | 50217::PAULSON | Bob Paulson @HAO, DTN 863-5207 | Fri Jun 18 1993 06:54 | 14 |
| re .67
Yes, the people on strike are not being paid by Digital for the
days on strike; they (the union members only) receive "strike
pay" from the union. To be a member of the union, I think you
have to pay them something like 1% of your gross monthly salary
per month.
There was a long mail last week from the German subsidiary
management explaining the "rules of the game" (as governed by
the laws of this country concerning strikes), so it's very
clear.
- Bob
|
2394.72 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Fri Jun 18 1993 07:08 | 8 |
| re .70: Welcome to the world! :-)
re .71: Yes, the union membership fee is 1% of your gross; on the other
hand, it's tax deductible, so you end up paying effectively maybe
0.6-0.7%. And the strike money is obviously a bit less than your
salary...
|
2394.73 | | 50217::PAULSON | Bob Paulson @HAO, DTN 863-5207 | Mon Jun 21 1993 09:29 | 16 |
| It occurred to me this morning, as I saw my striking Hannover
colleagues driving off to Hamburg to offer their support, that
if all the energy, comradeship, teamwork and helping each other
out which the people on both sides of this strike are
exhibiting amongst themselves, could somehow be channeled into
helping this company get back on its feet again, then we would
all be a lot better off.
From a couple of customers who have approached me about this
however, it would seem that we are becoming a bit of a laughing
stock with all this as it seems to them that people are
striking to keep some of what are considered to be excessive
fringe benefits of the 1980's, and not necessarily about losing
jobs. Some other countries and people are a *lot* worse off.
- Bob
|
2394.74 | Talks begin at last! | FROCKY::MANNERINGS | | Mon Jun 21 1993 13:35 | 85 |
2394.75 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Mon Jun 21 1993 15:51 | 114 |
2394.76 | Press release | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Mon Jun 21 1993 15:56 | 56 |
2394.77 | | 50217::PAULSON | Bob Paulson @HAO, DTN 863-5207 | Mon Jun 21 1993 17:25 | 10 |
| re .74
Kevin,
thanks for the clarification. Another good thing about a
democracy is that we can "agree to differ" :-).
I hope things settle down again soon.
- Bob
|
2394.78 | Emotions form Nuernberg | NBOFS1::HUTZLER | | Tue Jun 22 1993 07:48 | 43 |
| re .62
Bob I disagree with note .62.
<<< I estimate about maybe 20% of the people, here are striking,
<<< which would represent about most of the of the IGMetall members.
This number depends from location to location and I believe that our
location Nuernberg will see much more people going on strike than 20 %.
<<< If I want to improve my own market value, then I want to look
<<< after this myself, thank you.
That's true if you take responsiblity only for yourself.
<<< It also appears to me that most of the people on strike here do
<<< not have first-line responsibility with customers, that is,
<<< they are not the ones to take the heat when things like
<<< delivery dates and installation dates stop working.
Then I assume that our german top management team are also has no
first-line responsibility because they need more than a week to start
with negotiations with the union.
re .66
<<< well, if about 800 (and not all of them) out of 3000 constitutes a
<<< democracy, then I must have missed something :-)
<<< well, if about 800 (and not all of them) out of 3000 constitutes a
<<< democracy, then I must have missed something :-)
Some calculations:
Year IG Metall Member ( only estimated, but maybe a trend )
1991 0
1992 100
1993 1000
1994 ?????
In Germany it's the norm to be a member of an union.
So far Digital and most part the computer buisness are the exception.
I hope that the negotiations with the IG Metall come to an end very
quickly and all german DECies can do their job and improve
*** customer satisfaction ***
Helmut,
Nuernberg, CS
P.S: Bob, waere nett dich mal kennenzulernen um deinen Standpunkt
besser verstehen zu koennen.
|
2394.79 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Tue Jun 22 1993 08:11 | 3 |
| My guesstimate is about 40% across all locations which are striking.
This doesn't mean that the remaining 60% are all working, though
(vacation, sick, ...).
|
2394.80 | | PASTA::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Tue Jun 22 1993 16:44 | 15 |
| There's a note somewhere in this file from someone who said s/he was
strongly pro-union at a previous employer, but strongly anti-union
at Digital. The difference was how management treated the employees
at each place -- the previous employer had a strong "worker vs.
management" culture, but this person felt that at Digital, a union
would only get in the way of the very positive and cooperative
worker/manager relations shat s/he experienced.
Well, that was years ago. It was interesting to read complaints in .55
(e.g. "Many of us are disappointed and angry that invaluable personell,
organisational and facility resources are being squandered in a chaotic
and expensive manner") that have also been said over here in the USA. I
wonder unionization is in the future of Digital USA?
Larry
|
2394.81 | keep on talking! | FROCKY::MANNERINGS | | Thu Jun 24 1993 15:50 | 12 |
2394.82 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Fri Jun 25 1993 08:42 | 3 |
2394.83 | Except... | HAM03::VEEH | It's... | Fri Jun 25 1993 09:23 | 9 |
2394.84 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Mon Jun 28 1993 08:20 | 8 |
2394.85 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Mon Jun 28 1993 11:58 | 84 |
2394.86 | 60 Hours of talks needed! | FROCKY::MANNERINGS | | Mon Jun 28 1993 12:02 | 8 |
| Thats right: the strike was suspended at 9.30 this morning. There has
to be another ballot of the members to see if they are satisfied with
the result of the negotiations or if they want to go on striking. The
company and the union then have until 1. July to finally ratify the
agrrement, but all this is expected to be a formality.
The main details of the agreement will be published later.
Kevin
|
2394.87 | the union deal in detail | FROCKY::MANNERINGS | | Thu Jul 22 1993 16:44 | 109 |
| I've finally found time to summarise the results of the strike and make a
comparison between the union contract, the individual contract, and the
statutory minimum.
The contract between Digital and the IG Metall has essentially two elements:
the general contract applicable in Sudbaden and the Digital specific part.
The general part for Sudbaden was previously applicable to Digital-Kienzle
which was formerly part of the Mannesmann Group.
The general contract is 60 pages long and quite complex. It's most important
parts are as follows:
*36-hour week immediately
*35-hour week after 1. Oct 1995
(individual Digital contract (IDC) 40-hour week, statutory limit (SL)
48-hours)
*30 days holiday per year (IDC 30 days, SL 18)
*Termination notice
after 5 years employment 3 months
after 8 years 4
" 10 " 5 "
" 12 " 6 "
(IDC = SL. The German Government has announced that it intends to
reduce the SL to 4 weeks. This won't apply to Digital employees as a
result of the union contract)
* full sick pay for 6 weeks
(IDC = SL. The German government has announced that it intends to
introduce a law which will mean that up to 6 days per year sick
leave are unpaid)
* regular pay rises. After 1-Jan-1994 we shall all recieve the IG
Metall national ageement calculated on the full pay. It remains to
be seen how much this will be but my guess is 4-5%. Inflation is
running at 4,2%. After 1-Jan-1995 a special Digital contract will
be negotiated. This will be linked to the national agreement.
(IDC = SL = $000000000000000)
* absolute dismissal protection for employees over 53 years
(IDC = SL = only for people with disabilities or on child care
leave)
*None of these conditions can be changed or ignored by the company
unless a new agreement is reached with the union, and the union only
signs new agreements when they are better than the old ones!
(IDC = SL = you are on your own and it can be a slippery slope.)
The specifically Digital part of the contract is as follows:
* an early retirement scheme which is quite attractive
(IDC = SL = none)
* a redundancy scheme in the event of dismissal (TFSO) until
31-DEC-1995 (IDC = SL = about 60% less)
* no dismissal if a suitable position is available within the
Digital Group throughout Germany
(IDC = SL = only applies to your location and you have to go to
the labour court)
* the right to apply and be seriously considered for all vacancies
throughout Germany (IDC = SL = none)
* the right to up to 3 years unpaid leave for purposes of further
education. (IDC = SL = none)
* the right to extended child-care holiday
(IDC = SL = less)
* a binding commitment not to plunder the pension fund
(IDC = SL = Digital could have taken DM 100 Million out of the
fund by cancelling future benefits. There is DM 240 Mio in the
fund, thats about $140 Mio) By the way, do you know what Digital
is doing with the money in your pension fund? It is a very
convenient way of windowdressing the balance sheet.
* a permanent and effective structure of works' councils
(IDC = SL = Fragmentation and division of the employees. It has
happened at IBM where at present various IBM employees in works'
councils are sueing other IBM employees in "sweetheart" works'
councils at the labour court instead of working together.
They are in bad shape as a result and it is not good for
business or employee morale)
* more part-time jobs (IDC = SL = not as a right)
In the national ballot after the strike 6 members voted against
accepting the contract! About 18% didn't get round to voting.
There is widespread agreement with the German management that this
agreement provides a sound basis for the future success of Digital
in Germany.
It is worth noting the main points we did not achieve:
* more control over destructive outsourcing, vendorising and
subcontracting
* a guarantee for all locations against closure
* An organisational task force which plans for the future and
examines cost-reduction programmes from below
The result of negotiations is usually a compromise.
Kevin Mannerings
|
2394.88 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Ora, the Old Rural Amateur | Fri Jul 23 1993 15:14 | 4 |
| A minor correction: we now have a 37 hr workweek - even though most
people coose to work 40 hrs a week and take the accumulated hours as
extra time off (it amounts to 17 days / year).
|
2394.89 | Just curious ... | FINALY::BELLAMTE | Recycled RP06 mechanic. | Fri Jul 23 1993 20:25 | 3 |
| How do you devide a 37 hour week into five days? Are they all the
same length (7.4 hours), or does everyone bug out early on Friday?
|
2394.90 | | STAR::ABBASI | play chess, its good 4 u | Fri Jul 23 1993 20:53 | 7 |
| >How do you devide a 37 hour week into five days? Are they all the
>same length (7.4 hours), or does everyone bug out early on Friday?
my guess is that they work 8 hours for 4 days , and on friday
it is 5 hours day, so they leave like early afternoon on friday.
\nasser
|
2394.91 | Gone Fishing | SPECXN::BLEY | | Fri Jul 23 1993 21:27 | 4 |
|
I would go for working 10 hours for 3 days, 7 hours on Thursday, and
forget about Friday...go fishing!!!
|
2394.92 | | STAR::ABBASI | play chess, its good 4 u | Fri Jul 23 1993 21:36 | 9 |
| i think some companies started to do 4 work days, 10 hours per
day, i saw an ad once in on of the papers that come from the
west cost where they said that how they work.
i think 4 days week is more fun than 5 for like sure.
i wonder if any chance of DEC going something like this too.
\nasser
|
2394.93 | Digital has it NOW! (4/10, that is..) | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Free Stupidity Screening $5 | Fri Jul 23 1993 22:22 | 10 |
| You can probably do it now.. I've been in a couple of groups where 4
10-hour days are just fine.
This is helpful for me, given that I drive an hour and three quarters
each way to work..
But, of course, it is by manager's discretion.
...tom
|
2394.94 | | DECWET::FARLEE | Insufficient Virtual...um...er... | Fri Jul 23 1993 23:22 | 4 |
| > You can probably do it now.. I've been in a couple of groups where 4
> 10-hour days are just fine.
Hmmm... Most places I've been 5 - 10's is the norm...
|
2394.95 | | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Free Stupidity Screening $5 | Sun Jul 25 1993 11:16 | 3 |
| well, the reality has been about 4 12's, but the thought is there..
...tom
|
2394.96 | IBM Germany starts warning strike | HAM03::VEEH | uncontaminated by cheese | Thu Dec 09 1993 06:49 | 7
|