Conference 7.286::digital

    >Be in the 10 to 50 million range
    
    That's been revised downward to the 1 to 10 million range
    

    
    
    
       There are a number of definitions here. If you asked 5 people you'd
    probably get 5 different answers. This question is basically the same
    as "What is Systems Integration?" The answer depends on who you ask.
    
       Personally, I don't believe either SI or complex sale have anything
    to do with dollar amount. SI is complex, but complex does not have to
    be SI. Both could be definded as non commodity, value added "solution"
    programs/sales. Solution is an over used word in this business. A true
    solution tends to be complex in nature, usually involving more then one
    vendor and some level of integration.
    
       Anyway, I'll get down off my soapbox now. Bottomline, dollar amount
    has little to do with complexity. I've worked some very complex $300K
    solutions. I've also worked simple $4 million "deals".
    
    
    
                                           Phil...

    Check with the BellSouth/Optus team for a large win in Australia...
    
    Keith R>

From:	MORO::BEELER_JE "God save us from Slick Willie" 25-FEB-1993 08:32:42.53
To:	ICS::DONNELLAN
CC:	BEELER_JE
Subj:	HUMANE::DIGITAL Note 2386

    Well .. I guess you've pushed a "hot bottom" with me ...

    I've been selling (for Digital) for 16 years - as of last look by our
    corporate bean counters longer than anyone else in the corporation.
    You could not come close to describing a sales situation that I have
    not seen in the last 16 years - I've seen 'em all - and handled most of
    'em.

    The exception comes in this 10 million to 50 million request.  I doubt
    if you'll get any kickback on this - possible but doubtful.  I've never
    in my life understood why some of our learned and esteemed friends in
    "corporate" think that they do.  Given every sale that has been made in
    the name of "Digital" since the beginning of the company I think that
    we would in all probability have no problems identifying and counting
    the number of sales that you've requested .. and we would not have to
    use a calculator to sum them up.

    Not only that, but, the MANNER in which those sales were conducted in
    the past would, I SUSPECT, have minimal impact and bearing on the way
    that they would be conducted today.  "Bang for the buck" used to be
    the ticket in the past - the recent past - but I guarantee you that
    this is *no* *more*.  It's history.  Period.  (This is one of the
    reasons why Alpha will not see the resurgence in sales that some think
    that we will see).  "Bank for the buck" and "low dollar" days are gone
    for good.

    If we don't realize this, we, as a corporation, are in deep trouble. 
    We've got to learn the art of STRATEGIC selling - and strategic in the
    true sense of the word.  We have been very tactical in the past - VERY
    tactical - even in the $10M sales.  I [honestly] don't think that most
    sales people, from the most junior to the most senior, even come close
    to realizing the *true* meaning of strategic sales.  "Strategic" to
    most people means "carpet bombing" - just put enough machines into any
    one customer and you've made a "strategic" sale.  Wrong.

    I remember one sale that I made ... my sales unit manager told me that
    I should stop calling on the customer - I didn't do it "right" - I wore
    jeans, boots, western shirt to the  site - didn't wear a suit like a
    good sales person should - wasn't calling high enough .. etc .. I
    effectively said "stand back and watch".

    For a matter of months I had to come into the DEC office in a suit -
    leave - go home and change to jeans - and then go to the customer site.
    The first purchase order from this customer was for $1M.  The next year
    they did nearly $10M .. the year after that .. another $10M .. and it
    continued in that range for quite some time.

    Why am I telling you this?  The above referenced sale does not fall in
    the $10M to $50 range that you requested .. but .. it was a damned good
    sale and not one cent of discount was applied.  It was long term, it
    was strategic, it was profitable .. but it doesn't fit into the niche
    that you've requested.

    OK, I'll turn my hot button off now.

    Thanks for listening,
    
    Jerry

    To reinforce .4
    
    How many times do sales that looked like small beer grow enormous and
    how many that look enormous end up in a trivial sale?
    
    Can anyone really identify them up front?
    
    To get anecdotal, an associate in South America told me of a sale he
    influenced for his company.
    
    A scruffily dressed peasant came into the office and asked for a great
    deal of detailed information.  He was given everything and wandered off
    happily.  A week later the order came in for so many tractors that they
    had to place orders all over the place.  He was the head of the local
    Japanese Co-Op!
    
    Well, I hope it cheers someone up.
    
    Tony

   Back in the early '80s, one of my coworker's father wanted to buy
   some computer equipment for the school district he was in charge of. 
   Being a good father, he gave his son a call and asked how he could
   buy some Digital gear.  The son dutifully tried to get sales in our
   office to call his father.  
   
   They declined (father was located 70 miles north of our office; sales
   reps then were notorious for not traveling more than 25 miles to
   visit a customer).  "Come on.  It's a school.  Not much money there. 
   Besides, education is <a-city-to-the-east>'s account."
   
   Dutiful son told his father the eastern city's phone number and to
   give them a call.  Father had to call several times (no one would
   return his call).  Father finally got p*ssed at Digital and told his
   son he was shopping elsewhere.  Son's queries were answered with "Too
   far to travel for small change."
   
   But!  There is good news.  Father was very happy and satisified in
   the end.  Seems IBM was more than happy to take his $1.5 million.
   
   What happened?  School.  70 miles away.  Education not really our
   account.  Conclusion: Not worth the effort.
   
   One customer.  One sale.  One salesrep's budget made for the year. 
   Lost; all because nobody thought of asking him how much he was going to
   spend.

   
>   One customer.  One sale.  One salesrep's budget made for the year. 
>   Lost; all because nobody thought of asking him how much he was going to
>   spend.

There's another aspect to schools:  If this system was for instructional use,
how much is it worth to our future to have all of the future-professionals come
out of that school having "cut their teeth" on Digital equipment???
Kevin

Re: .7:

   I directly attribute my presence here in Digital to the PDP-11/20, 11/44,
11/05, PDP-8/A and PDP-16 which we managed to acquire at my high school and
thereby delving into RSTS and OS/8 internals and eventually VMS.  We can
debate the value of that ;-), but it's a real effect -- students who
learned to work with DEC equipment are going to want to keep access it in
the future, even if it's just a "safety blanket" sort of feeling.

					-mjg

    re: .6
    
    That makes my blood boil.  Can our reps be that blind?  With all the
    pressure that has been put on the field over the past few years, I find
    it hard to believe that any opportunity would be passed up.
    

    re: .6 
    
    I believe that many of us have simliar stories. I won't go into detail
    but the same conclusion occurred, however, my friends father didn't
    buy IBM. I believe it was a HP. Perhaps a small sale at the time, one
    local office in the Boston area. The business now is in 10 US Cities,
    3 European and is branching out to the Pacific Rim countries. They're
    not so small now and they are not using DEC equipment.
    
    Jim C.
    

    Unfortunately, "strategic" has weird definition to Digital mgt.
    
    A couple of years ago, I attended a "Strategic Account Planning
    Session", which had a pretty simple agenda:
    
    1)  What does it take to get the customer to buy from us
    2)  What does it take to make the customer *happy* he bought from us
    3)  How much will the customer buy if we meet the first two conditions
    
    However, this session wasn't at Digital.  The Digital sessions I
    have attended over the years follow a slightly different pattern:
    
    1)  Here's how much the customer is supposed to buy from us
    2)  Here's the certs/bookings/categories/expenses numbers to follow
    3)  Here's the names of people who get credit
    4)  Ritual beating of sales rep for not "managing pipeline" to
    	    achieve the aforementioned numbers.
    
    At a couple of these meetings, there were so little discussion of
    the customer and their business that I would be hard-pressed to
    know what the customer *did* (except that the names were instantly
    recognizable to your average American consumer).  The most complex
    sales strategies seemed to revolve around the logistics of getting
    DEC VIPS to visit customer VIPS "to demonstrate Digital's committment
    to the business partnership".  The complexity was always dealing
    with Digital's internal orgs, rather than dealing with the customer.
    
    Oh, well.

    re .11
    
    Hey,  I was at that meeting!  Many times.
    
    I remember one in Irvine in 1985.  It was about the NEW Digital
    stratagy.  
    	1) How to fudge metrics
    	2) How to shift blame to the group on the other side of the
    	   building
    	3) How to make the numbers, and which ones were really important
    	4) How to position yourself for career growth
    	5) How to make you manager look good
    
    it was a 3 hour meeting.  The word customer was never used.
    WE WERE A CUSTOMER SERVICE GROUP!!  Regional hardware and software!
    Some of us went out drinking afterwards.  We knew we were on a downhill
    road and we are still on it.
    
    My brother use to be a Ditial customer.  Every time I saw him he would
    complain about how hard it was to do business with us.  Back in the
    early 80s he was with a major customer doing robotics with PDP-11s.
    He had a signed P.O. for x00,000's for some new PDP's.  The DEC
    salesman would not sell them to him.  The salesman said he was being
    evaluated on how many VAX's he sold. He had nothing to gain from
    selling PDP's.  Now if he could interest them in a nice VAx.....
    My brother took his P.O. to a OEM.  He no longer has any dealings with
    DEC and uses no Digital equipment.