Conference 7.286::digital

    	I don't know when the basenoter got this, but I got my copy in
    	mail (presumably from the same distribution list) at 20:36:11.62
    	mountain time (10:36 PM eastern time) on 12-Jan-1993, which is, 
    	of course, after the deadline for placing an order that would 
    	qualify for this program.  Therefore if I had notions of 
    	participating in the payroll deduction program I would not 
    	have been able to act on this message.
    
    	Fortunately I was not planning to participate in this program,
    	so the frustration with the timing of this is very small.
    	I think DEC could have made it effective in 48 hours.  Yes,
    	it might have precipitated a rush of orders, but it would
    	have been the honorable thing to do.
    
    	It is just "one more thing" in that growing list of changes
    	happening around here.
    
    	At least it is not hard to imagine why this change is going
    	in place.  Floating those loans costs DEC very tangible and
    	identifiable money.
    
    	Up until now I have been saying that I can live with each new
    	change in policy.  I can live with this one too because it
    	simply does not affect me.  I have to start to wonder, though,
    	how many more it will take before I start to get angry like
    	so many others already are.

    
    
    Perhaps they don't want to float any more loans 'cuz there might not be
    a company left in two years.
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob

>>    	I don't know when the basenoter got this, but I got my copy in
>>    	mail (presumably from the same distribution list) at 20:36:11.62
>>

I got mine in All-in-1 and noticed that the memo was created at about
11 PM last night, 3 hours after the deadline.

    RE: .2
    
    Or maybe they've determined it takes longer than 2 years just to
    process the paperwork involved.
    
    dnb

    Its simple.  Most of those buying won't be employees long enough to
    have the cost of the products completed deducted.
    
    :-)

Maybe we got the notices so late because of all the network hops between sender
and receiver?

COOKIE::MODELA::MODELA::MRGATE::"MROMTS::NROMTS::MRGATE::NEST::DICS_DIST"

.5>    Its simple.  Most of those buying won't be employees long enough to
.5>    have the cost of the products completed deducted.
    
    And, the kiss-off package is being reduced to less than the average
    cost of a DEC PC.
    
    :-)
    

[also posted in cam3::emppuppurpro]
    Face it - most of our benefits are not secure.  They
exist only due to the benevolence of the corporation.
The payroll deduction cancellation should be viewed in the
same light as the higher share of health care costs we pay,
the changes with respect to accumulation of vaction days, 
etc.  Ultimately, the bottom line is the most important
metric of the corporation, not perquisites, morale, or
the intangible benefit of employees owning DEC PC's.

And EPP also knows what we know: DEC makes competitive PC's...
but no more than competitive.  If EPP sales truly contributed
to the bottom line, (whether that be in $$$ revenue or political
revenue), payroll deduction would have been spared the knife.
Management knows that this cancellation is the death-knell to EPP.
So the company still looks good, but in reality, there is no
employee benefit any longer.

I'd be very interested as to the details of how the 
payroll deductions contributes to the "Liabilities" column
of the balance sheet.  I suspect that this is a 
micro-optimization that has very little effect, other then
making whichever unit manages the EPP look like "they're
doing their part".  That this information was NOT part of the
cancellation announcement also shows how little information we
truly "share" in this company.
    

  I don't know what the projected savings of this policy change are but I
  do think that it is nickels and dimes compared to the return to Digital. 
  It is shortsighted in my opinion.

  Mike

    
    One has to wonder how many of these computers would have been sold if
    not for the payroll deduction offer.
    
    
    Another thing that struck me is that they aren't taking personal checks
    from their employees.
    
    Mike
    

    I personally would not have been able to handle the expense of a
    Digital PC, if it weren't for the EPP - payroll deduction program!
    
    I would have most definately would have gone to a compeditor for a MUCH
    better price... albeit with interest..!
    
    Just one persons' perspective!
    
    Bob G.
    

    It also makes you wonder. Will more people be using Master Card or
    Visa? If so, DEC will be getting 3 - 4% less due to credit card
    companies charges. So, will our discount move to 17% instead of 20%.
    
    I guess the 3-4% loss is made up for by getting their money upfront and
    not having it on the books (like our vacations)
    
    - John

    Just a few random observations that might as well go here:
    
    The only reason in the world that my girlfriend bought a DEC PC was the
    payroll deduction.  We could easily have paid much less for the same
    amount of power elsewhere and we would have gotten more slots, a more
    standard motherboard, a more flexible case, AMI BIOS with setup in ROM,
    etc, etc.
    
    The machine, while not DOA, doesn't work right and needs service.  (A
    message comes up when you boot saying, "Time-of-day clock stopped" and
    you have to hit F1 to continue.)
    
    I've bought dozens of boards, disks, chips, cables, software packages,
    and complete systems from noname fly-by-night folks who barely spoke
    English at computer shows and had to have only one component replaced.
    
    I'm leaving the company and I have to buy a laser printer.  I KNOW
    laser printers and, since I checked and the 1125 isn't available at the
    employee discount, let alone on payroll deduction, it's not even in the
    running.
    
    FWIW,
    
    -joe tomkowitz

Eliminating the payroll deduction for EPP did employees a favor - it 
removed the one good reason for even participating in this supposed 
"benefit" in the first place.

Last year's hardware at prices that even Sears can beat with long lead 
times and lots of hassles for repairs doesn't sound like a benefit to me.

just my opinion.

Matt LaPine

    	DEC most likely does not lose 3-4% on credit card purchases.
    	I'd venture to guess that it is closer to 1%.  Only the smallest
    	and most infrequent of merchants pay more than 2%.

    
    
    A slightly different (albeit anecdotal) comment.  I bought an EPP
    computer a couple of months ago.
    
    The price seems competitive price/qualitywise compared with what I
    have read about a lot of the cheap clones available.  
    
    Delivery was early.
    
    My monitor died on Christmas Eve.  The service center replaced it on
    the spot so I could have it over the long weekend.
    
    I probably shouldn't say anything, but they haven't started deductions
    yet.  The payroll deduction was also a big reason why I bought through
    DEC.
    
    I wish I could have afforded a more powerful machine, but I am happy.
    
    I wish they would continue the program so more people could benefit 
    from this program.
    

    It has put the road block in front of me.  I was going to order a DEC
    PC because of the 0% payrole deduction just so when a customer asked me
    what PC I used I could say, "Digital, of course."  But now I'll look
    into upgrading the mother board in me 15 month old 16MHz 386 from
    Gateway.  I've got it doing so much the 16MHz is just toooooo
    sssllloooooowww.
    
    Too bad.  I really wanted to buy DEC.

    IMO,
    
    with the TFSO rapidly approaching NOTTA, just before being terminated
    order a PC on payroll deduction.  When terminated w/o a package DEC now
    needs to come after all those whom did this.
    
    being how my last day is 2/26/93 (the day before my wedding) and we
    managed to get a package DEc would have been paid back for the PC, glad
    I did not get one. now I can save money when I get one.

    re - .18 - thats the DVN explanation that they gave for ending payroll
    deduction as an option for EPP - that they were having trouble getting
    their money from TFSO'd employees.  'Someone' Russ picked from the 
    audience said that the above was stated in the memo sent to employees.

    
    My tine may change, but for now put me in the list of "NOT worth the
    hassle!"
    
    Here's the story (sad, but true...)
    
    Ordered pc from EPP on 12/16
    Phone call from them on 12/22(?) saying system would ship 12/28
    I send mail on 1/6 at 4pm requesting status
    I call my rep on 1/6 at 5:30pm.  Told that system shipped 1/5
    1/7 get response to mail from different rep, states ship date of 12/30,
    	and gives shipper/waybill info.
    Call shipper, shipper says system delivered 1/5 TO DIGITAL!! no reason
    	given...
    Call EPP and talk to different rep:  system was returned because 
    	shipper didn't cover my zip code.  system reshipped on 1/7
    
    System recieved on 1/9...NOT!!!!  Only 1 of 3 boxes arrive (just CPU)
    
    Call EPP 1/11, they put a trace on the order
    Call EPP 1/14, no status on trace.
    On 1/15, recieve memo stating "No more payroll deduction" SIGNED BY
    	EPP MANAGER!!!! (horaay...)
    On 1/15, send mail to Jane Curry, 
    	
    		Currently awaiting response.
    
    As I said in my mail to Jane, I am not blasting EPP, the reps I have
    dealt with have been very good, and have assisted me in any means 
    available to them,
    
    				BUT!  
    
    I'm still missing 2 boxes....(one of which contains the monitor!)
    
    I sure hope that I'm a real point off the curve on this one.
    
    
    Jim (who is NOT entering this from his pc at HOME!)
    

    
    It's a shame the payroll deduction plan has disappeared... but I'm not
    surprised for two reasons: the TFSO problem and the increasing
    competitiveness of the DECpc line.
    
    Aside from reasons like the horror stories in .20, do people still
    think the DECpc is not a good deal - especially after the 20% discount?
    The January Issue of "PCComputing" rates the DECPC 433DX LP as the
    "BEST VALUE" when compared to other major vendors.  Me thinks that
    a 20% discount would push this rating up a little higher - enough that
    we could be viewed favorably against the minor players.
    
    Comments?
    
    Wayne

    .-1
    >do people still
    >think the DECpc is not a good deal - especially after the 20% discount?
    >The January Issue of "PCComputing" rates the DECPC 433DX LP as the
    >"BEST VALUE" when compared to other major vendors.  Me thinks that
    >a 20% discount would push this rating up a little higher - enough that
    >we could be viewed favorably against the minor players.

    iam one of the people and i dont think it is a good deal, that is why me and
    other DECeees where i work have bought or buying Gateway PeeCee's and not 
    DEC's. plus with Gateway you can open a magazine and see different 
    packages detailing whats in them with options/upgrades, and you can call 
    any time during the day (7am-10pm) to ask questions (not only after
    5 p.m.) and you can call Saturdays also (although they are most the
    time busy because so many people are buying from them). may be DEC
    PeeCee sales department people can learn something from Gateway
    is doing.

    when DEC figures out how to market PeeCee's to the masses and do
    good advertisements and give good options and good prices, may be
    more people will buy PeeCee's from DEC, including all these DECeees
    who are going outside to buy their PeeCee's.
    i heard from well informed sources that Gateway sells 3,000 PeeCee's
    every day, any one knows how many PeeCee's DEC sells per day? on a
    somewhat related thing, I read that Intel builds 1 million 486 processors 
    per month to keep up with demand for the 486 PeeCee's.

    the Gateway PeeCee 486DX2-66V (which iam getting) was tied first with 
    another PeeCee ($1,000 more expensive that it) as the PeeCee magazine 
    choice among 76  other PeeCee's including the DEC's LP model. (see
    PeeCee magazine January 23 edition i think).

    i find buying a PeeCee from DEC very hard. IMNSHO.
    
    \bye
    \nasser

    The Digital PC (latest model) is actually a very nice machine, but it
    is somewhat limited since it is not available in a tower case and only
    has 3 spare slots (I think). For someone not interested in adding lots
    of options, it would make sense.
    
    Let's not get too carried away in singing the praises of Gateway's
    service. In my view Gateway have very good machines, but their service
    is terrible. You cannot even get through to a salesperson without
    waiting for ages. It takes ages to get through to technical support
    (the line is usually engaged), and customer services is just as
    difficult. For example, yesterday morning (Saturday) at 09:59 (EST) I
    rang the Gateway technical support line - the recored message told me
    to ring back at 10:00 (EST). I rang back one minute later (literally),
    and the message now said, please wait, all lines are busy. I waited for
    20 minutes before speaking to someone. After I had finished talking to
    the support person and had hung up, I remembered that I had forgot to
    ask about some other topic - I rang back immediately and the number was
    engaged. I couldn't even get through to the message to tell me that I
    was in a queue.
    
    On the contrary, I have always found the Digital PC people to be very
    helpful and available. I would assume that if you are buying a Digital
    PC without a discount you can call whenever you like.
    
    Richard

    re: .21    ...do people still
    think the DECpc is not a good deal - especially after the 20% discount?
    
    Product availability and desirability have been discussed at great
    length in CAM3::EMPPURPRO. Here's a snapshot good today, January 19. 
    The specifics will certainly change, although the general thrust of
    this reply applies over the past couple of years.  Reply .21 has a
    mistaken assumption, see below.
    
    <OPINION>
    Under Desktop Direct, EPP has improved in some areas.  In general...
    
    EPP is COMPETITIVE for:
      o Low end PCs
      o Laptop PCs
      o Closeouts and discontinued models
      o Many peripherals 
    
    EPP is NOT COMPETITIVE for:
      o Workhorse 486 PCs
    
    <FACT> 
    The DEC Low Profile 486 PCs, DECpc 4xxLP, are not available today at
    employee discount.  Only a single 386 model is discounted.  This is
    .21's mistake.
    
    Desktop Direct (in e-mail) claimed that the payroll deduction program
    was equivalent to at least another 10% price discount.  For non-cash
    purchases, this makes sense to me.  Its unavailability makes EPP prices
    significantly less attractive.
    
    Some of the discounted DEC PCs are competitively priced against
    reputable brands.  The LP series compete directly against Gateway and
    Dell.  While some readers may dismiss these companies, I believe the
    comparison is valid for individual buyers.
    
    re: .22-.23 Gateway 2000
    
    The "problem" with Gateway is its runaway success.  For individuals and
    small businesses, Gateway 2000 is DEC's comptetitor of choice.  Other
    than long waits on hold, most people have had very satisfying
    experiences with this company.  Note potential bias: I own a Gateway
    system.

............................................................................
|                                                                          |
|  M I S G                                                                 |
|  ======================================================================  |
|                             C O M P U T E R   I N D U S T R Y   N E W S  |
|                                                                          |
............................................................................
18-JAN-1993 -- FOR DIGITAL INTERNAL USE ONLY
(c) Dow Jones News Retrieval (Wall Street Journal)
    .
    .
    .

TECHNOLOGY: PHONE-CALL CRUSH FORCES GATEWAY TO BOOST ITS STAFF

             Mail-order computer marketer Gateway 2000 bolstered its customer
          service to help irritated consumers who, after buying Christmas
          computers, haven't been able to get through the company's jammed
          phone lines for help. The company said it expanded its phone bank
          and boosted its work force by nearly a third to cope.
             The privately held personal computer company, based in North
          Sioux City, S.D., said it has been hit with complaints in recent
          weeks from new PC buyers who can't get through on its toll-free help
          lines. The customers, according to Gateway officials as well as a
          report in today's InfoWorld trade magazine, have begun calling
          company managers to complain. Furthermore, many frustrated customers
          have filled the nation's computer bulletin-board networks with
          stories of busy signals and unreturned phone calls. "They're
          starting to let their emotions out," says Denis Lueders, the
          company's technical support manager.
    
    .
    .
    .
    

    I have many people in my area that have, have ordered, or considering
    Gateway PCs. We have all experienced some busy signals. But none have
    experienced unreturned calls or any other incidents.
    
    In fact, I ordered my Gateway 1/14 and it arrives today (1/20).
    And this is after being told it would take 3-4 weeks. I have
    called my salesrep numerous times with all kind of questions.
    If she was unavailable I simple called back (twice I got a busy
    signal) and talked to someone else. On Monday (1/18) I added a
    printer to the order (NOTE: it may not be with this shipment).
    Had no problems. I had a few questions on the color option but
    she was able to track down the answer and ALWAYS returned my
    calls with a hour to an hour and a half.
    
    SIDEBAR
    -------
    1). Whoever supervises these people rules with an iron hand
        from what I could tell. I did not want to ask too many
        question, know what I mean.
    2). Gateway will deal on price. If a rep is found to change
        a price they are terminated and replaced. End of story.
    
    Rick A

    
    
    CORRECTION !!!!!!!!
    
    
    They will NOT deal on price.
    
    Sorry
    
    Rick A

re .24

>                                                       For individuals and
>   small businesses, Gateway 2000 is DEC's comptetitor of choice.

    As a disturbing side note, some six months ago my customer representative
    was transferred from dealing with me (individual/small business accounts) 
    halfway through my initial dealing with Gateway 2000 -- he told me that he
    had been assigned to corporate accounts, as that was where his company was
    placing "... strong emphasis...."  I find this disturbing because I wonder
    what will happen if they do to the corporate market what they have done to
    the individual market.  One way that I see of combatting this is to have
    an EPP that allows system purchases at competitive prices, so that
    employees can at least do word of mouth advertising, instead of feeling
    foolish about being forced to admit that it was more cost competitive
    for them to purchase another vendor's equipment.

Regards,
Andy

Face it, this is not (entirely) about EPP.

It's about whether or not Digital can offer competetive service
and competetive products at competetive prices in the PC space.

It seems obvious (to everybody except those in the Desktop Direct organization)
that we are NOT even close to offering competetive service in our ordering
operation, let alone the service that employees get.

We may be in the ballpark with products and prices, but:
a) We certainly have no edge
and
b) We do not have even close to the flexibility in configuration that our
competition has.

If we can become competetive in the overall market, then we will be competetive
in the EPP program.  After all, those of us buying from Gateway are not getting
any special discounts.  I assume that if you got identical product, price, and
service from Digital that you are getting from Gateway, that you might be
buying from Digital. 

Kevin Farlee

    
    Just to let people know....
    
    DCU has recently reduced its computer loan rates, as well as many
    others.  They used to be 12.5% (12.0% with payroll deduction).  They 
    are now 8.0% (7.5% with payroll deduction).  The maximum amount is 
    $10,000.  The maximum term is 3 years.  System must be a DEC computer.
    
    Granted, it isn't 0% financing, but it is something to consider if you
    want a PC now but don't have the cash up front.
    

>>System must be a DEC computer.

	That's too bad.. DEC Computers cost too much.

							mike

    
>	That's too bad.. DEC Computers cost too much.
    
    	I know but there isn't much DCU can do about that.  Too bad the
    EPP program hasn't lived up to its billing (and potential).  The
    company and employees would both make out IMO.
    

    
    Does anyone know if that effected the 15% loan for other computers ?
    
    Rick (coming to you on his new Gateway via DCU loan) A.

    What they could DO about it is to not require a DEC computer!!! DEC
    pc's should have to compete for my dollar via DCu like they have to
    compete in the open market.

    
    How can this be done (It must be a DEC computer)?  I thought that the
    DCU was a seperate entity from DEC.
    
    
    Mike

    re. .235
    
    Good point Mike. Hey DCU officers, didn't we just elect you all on a
    platform of change. Well, here is your chance.
    
    - John

>  Are new DCU officers listening
	
	A couple have been known to read this conference. Reply .32 was written
	by a member of the DCU Board of Directors. This issue is also being
	discussed in SMAUG::DCU topic 640. Still more DCU BoD members read that
	conference. I recommend that as a better place to complain if you are
	actually interested in seeing things changed.

			Alfred

    re: .35 - Exactly the point. Too bad the DCU Board can't figure it out.

    At least if you are "tapped" in one of the drills, you don't have to
    cough up the remaining price (for something like a 450ST for instance).
    

RE: .39

	Yea, but with the EPP deal, you can always give it back.

	I called the DCU. I'm waiting for more info.. The woman I
	spoke with used some poor choices in words as to why
	DEC only.. I won't mention then here as it would only rathole
	the topic. I told her that's fine, but, DEC computers are too
	expensive (ie: NOT cost competitive with outfits like Gateway)
	and don't offer the features that *I* need. (tower, lots-o-slots,
	etc...) She said she'd ask further and get back to me.

						mike

    
    As Alfred has suggested, discussion is probably best in SMAUG::DCU,
    note 640.
    
    But I would like to point out that this is NOT a new loan program.  It
    has existed for over 12 years with the requirement that the computer be
    a DEC system.
    

    
            This seems to be the only active EPP note lately so I will ask
            my questions here.
    
            I am interested in buying a Digital PC thru the EPP...
            Does anybody know if there is some way to order it and then
            pick it up at one of our sites.... For instance.. order the
            normal way thru vtx or by phone and then go to say MKO or NIO
            and pick it up thus not incurring any sales tax from the state
            of Mass. Also is there freight charge (ie. delivery chg) if
            they do infact have to send it to your home.
    
            Anybody have any experience with this or know who could answer
            these questions.
    
    
    Thanks
    Bill
    

    No, you have to take delivery of it at home, and you have to pay your
    home state's sales tax.  Shipping & insurance was free for EPP orders
    last time I looked, whereas non-EPP items were shipped free, but you
    had to buy insurance if you wanted it.
    
    John

.43 is right. EPP has access to the personnel home address list. When you
place your order they bring your address up on screen and that's the only
address they'll ship to. I think the exception is if you're donating it
to a church or other 501(c)3 charitable organization.

Art
been there tried that

    When I tried to have my PC purchased through the EPP plan shipped to
    the office I was told there would be an additional charge.  The
    shipping company was able to hold my equipment at their dock for me to
    pick up on a Saturday though.  They were very workable (ABF-Arkansas
    Best Freight, I think).
    
    One of the fellow in my office (CA) did receive his equipment at the office. 
    All he did was to find out when the equipment left, recorded the
    shipping number and again contacted the shipper directly.
    
    Hopefully you can have the same service in your area.
                                        

	I had my EPP shipped to a different address than my home address.
	I needed my personnel rep to send a message to the EPP people
	okay'ing where I was having it shipped to (my parents house)

	/robin

RE: <<< Note 2322.42 by DEMAND::LEMIEUX >>>
    
>                  -< ???'s about EPP Tax + Del chg's >-


 Go through the; $ VTX EPP menu selections.

 There is a $50.00 freight delivery charge and you can't pick it up at the 
manufacturing site.

 There is a listing of states where a sales tax is collected. New Hampshire 
in not one of them Bill.
    

Anybody want to guess whether anything will be added to the EPP product list
for the holidays, as has been done in the past?

Bruce

    
    I just read in the EPP notesfile that there is an Xmas special of some
    'multimedia PC' at $700 off, but people in the know says this is $700
    off last years price!
    
    Simon

    Re: .49
    
    To be more precise, that is one possible explanation.  After I posted a
    copy of the Digital Today announcement, people started asking questions
    about whether this special really offers a $700 savings over normal EPP
    prices.  Some replies claimed you could put together a similar DECpc LP
    multimedia system, at EPP prices, for less than the Holiday Special.
    
    I am sure that people would be interested in an official explanation of
    how the $700 was calculated.
    

Digital Today                                                 November 15, 1993

EMPLOYEE PURCHASE PLAN OFFERING A "SUPER HOLIDAY SPECIAL"
By Bob Johnson

MERRIMACK, N. H. - Digital's Employee Purchase Plan (EPP) has announced that
Digital employees can now purchase Digital's latest state-of-the-art PC
technology - previously available for sale to external Digital customers only.
These products are Digital's recently announced LPv and LPx line of desktop
personal computers.

    In addition, EPP has announced a "Multimedia Holiday Special" for all U.S.
Digital employees.

    The holiday special includes: a DECpc 425sxLP with 4MB RAM, 127MB IDE hard
drive, 3.5-inch 1.44 MB floppy, CD-ROM drive, DOS 6.0, Windows 3.1, Photo CD
Ready, speakers, microphone, headphones; Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum
Soundcard, 512KB video RAM, 128KB cache ... PLUS, a 14-inch SVGA color monitor.

    The cost to employees for the entire package is just $1,499, a savings of
more than $700.  The EPP 20 percent discount is NOT available on this package.

    A full range of system packages and additional options for LPv or LPx
systems can be found on VTX.

    ...

A bunch more systems have been added today, including LPv and LPx models.

I find it rather odd that two of the systems added to EPP today
are "network ready."  Do someone really think that we have networks
at home or is this a verification of a rumor I heard that someone hopes
employees will buy a PC for office use(!)

    Re: .52:
    
       You mean you don't have a network at home??  Doesn't everybody?
    (running TCP/IP and DECnet at home... used to have a roommate who had a
    VS-3100 at home and we had a cluster... :-)
    
    					-mjg

G'Day,

	I've also got a network at home.  Alas it is Novell but that still
counts as a network :-).

	As my son gets older I'm sure my network will grow.  It's by far the
cheapest way of setting up multiple systems in the one house.

	Now if only our net.police would allow us to connect our home networks
to EASYnet.....

David.

    re: .51
    
    I just got my latest edition of the DECpc-Direct catalog, and it shows
    the exact configuration listed in .51 at exactly the same price for the
    general consumer.
    
    In other words, the "Holiday Special" is no better for employees than
    for John Q. Public....
    
    

    
    
    that offer to the public doesn't include a monitor
    
    
    Bill

>Do someone really think that we have networks
>at home or ...

Of course we have networks at home. Don't you?
No? Hmmmmm... that's odd. How do you survive?

I'm in the process of deciding how to add a Unix Usenet server to the
VAX and the Windows NT systems already on the net. Anybody know If I can run
Unix/Ultrix on one of these 486 boxes?

Mickey.

    re .57
    
    Yes, it's called SCO (Santa Cruz Operations) UNIX.  We (Digital) sell
    it.

There's also a freeware UNIX known as linux that has a rather large
and varied following...

/harley

Also NETBSD which is freely-distributed BSD R.4 Reno for MIPS, Intel, Sparc, ...

    From VTX:
    
 Digital Employee Purchase Program - 11/93

 Note:
 
 For a Complete System you MUST select a System Package from Section 1 
 and Monitor from Section 2 and you MUST select a video adapter from 
 section 3 when ordering an LPx system only.  The devices listed in 
 Sections 4-8 may be ordered as optional System enhancements.  If you 
 decide to purchase a device from sections 3-7, be sure to mark your 
 order form correctly if you want the device (s) factory installed 
 (i.e. "Y" for integrate; "N" for spare). In all instances, when 
 ordering an LPx system, be sure to mark the video adapter you must
 select in section 3 with a "Y" for integrate.
 
 SELECT A PACKAGED SYSTEM
 
 1.) Select a Packaged System.
 
 DECpc LP Systems:
 
 Package:        A1              B1
   Model:        DECpc 425sx     DECpc 433sx      
    Proc:        486sx/25Mhz     486sx/33Mhz
    Disk:        127MB IDE       127MB IDE
  Memory:        4MB RAM         4MB RAM
   Video:        1MB  DRAM       1MB  DRAM
 
 Order #:        FR-PC741-G3     FR-PC742-G3
    List:        $929.00         $1029.00
     EPP:        $743.20         $823.20
------------------------------------------------------------ 
 Package:        A2              B2
   Model:        DECpc 425sx     DECpc 433sx
    Proc:        486sx/25Mhz     486sx/33Mhz
    Disk:        245MB IDE       245MB IDE
  Memory:        8MB RAM         8 MB RAM
   Video:        1MB  DRAM       1MB DRAM
 
 Order #:        FR-PC741-G4     FR-PC742-G4
    List:        $1371.00        $1469.00
     EPP:        $1096.80        $1175.20
 

 DECpc LPv Systems:
 
 Package:        C1              D1              E1
   Model:        DECpc 433dx     DECpc 450d2     DECpc 466d2
    Proc:        486 dx/33Mhz    486 d2/50Mhz    486 d2/66Mhz
    Disk:        170MB IDE       170MB IDE       170MB IDE
  Memory:        4MB RAM         4MB RAM         4MB RAM
   Video:        1MB DRAM        1MB DRAM        1MB DRAM
 Order #:        FR-753AA-WA     FR-754AA-WA     FR-756AA-WA
    List:        $1399.00        $1499.00        $1799.00
     EPP:        $1119.20        $1199.20        $1439.20
-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 Package:        C2              D2              E2
   Model:        DECpc 433dx     DECpc 450d2     DECpc 466d2
    Proc:        486 dx/33Mhz    486 d2/50Mhz    486 d2/66Mhz
    Disk:        245MB IDE       245MB IDE       245MB IDE
  Memory:        8MB RAM         8MB RAM         8MB RAM
   Video:        1MB DRAM        1MB DRAM        1MB DRAM
 
 Order #:        FR-753AA-WB     FR-754AA-WB     FR-756AA-WB
    List:        $1769.00        $1869.00        $2169.00
     EPP:        $1415.20        $1495.20        $1735.20
 
 Note: All the above LP and LPv Packages include SVGA Integrated Video 
 Controller(1024x768), FDD/IDE Controller, 3 Full-size ISA Expansion 
 Slots, Keyboard Port, SVGA Port, Mouse Port, two 9-pin Serial Ports, 
 one Parallel Port, 2-button Mouse, 101-key Keyboard,  3.5" 1.44MB 
 Floppy Diskette Drive, MS-DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.1 (No media is 
 included with LPv packages...you only get documentation, you need to 
 copy your operating system and windows software upon receipt of the 
 system), one internal storage bay is occupied by the IDE Drive. One 
 front accessible 5.25" Storage Bay and one 3.5" internal access only 
 Storage Bays are available.
 

 DECpc LPx Systems:

 Package:        F1              G1              H1
   Model:        DECpc 433dx     DECpc 450d2     DECpc 466d2
    Proc:        486 dx/33Mhz    486 d2/50Mhz    486 d2/66Mhz
    Disk:        170MB IDE       170MB IDE       170MB IDE
  Memory:        4MB RAM         4MB RAM         4MB RAM
   Video:        ***OPTION SELECTION - SEE SECTION 3 BELOW***
 
 Order #:        FR-763AA-WA     FR-764AA-WA     FR-766AA-WA
    List:        $1399.00        $1499.00        $1799.00
     EPP:        $1119.20        $1199.20        $1439.20
----------------------------------------------------------------------         
 Package:        F2              G2              H2
   Model:        DECpc 433dx     DECpc 450d2     DECpc 466d2
    Proc:        486 dx/33Mhz    486 d2/50Mhz    486 d2/66Mhz
    Disk:        245MB IDE       245MB IDE       245MB IDE
  Memory:        8MB RAM         8MB RAM         8MB RAM
   Video:        ***OPTION SELECTION - SEE SECTION 3 BELOW***
 
 Order #:        FR-763AA-WB     FR-764AA-WB     FR-766AA-WB
    List:        $1719.00        $1869.00        $2169.00
     EPP:        $1375.20        $1495.20        $1735.20

 NOTE: All of the above LPx Packages include FDD/IDE Controller, 6 
 fullsize ISA Expansion Slots including 2 VESA VL Slots, Keyboard 
 Port, SVGA Port, Mouse Port,  two 9-pin Serial Ports, one Parallel 
 Port, 2-button Mouse, 101 Key Keyboard, 3.5" 1.44MB Floppy Diskette 
 Drive, one internal Storage Bay is occupied by the IDE drive, 
 MS-DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.1 (No media...documentation only), three 
 front accessible 5.25" Storage Bays and one internal access only 
 Storage Bay are available.
 

 SELECT A MONITOR
 
 2.) Monitors (1 Must be Selected)
 
       --------------------------------------------------------------
 Desc: |14" VGA Clr.| 14" SVGA Clr.  | 15" SVGA Clr. |17" SVGA Clr. |
       |    Color   | Multi-sync, NI | Multi-sync, NI|Multi-sync, NI|
       |            |  Low Emission  |  Low Emission |Low Emission  |
 Res:  | Max 640x480|  Max 1024x768  | Max  1024x768 |Max 1280x1024 |
 Order:| FR-PC7XV-BA|   FR-PCXBV-DE  |   FR-PCXBV-BC |  FR-PCXAV-EA |
 Price:|            |                |               |              |
 List: |   $299.00  |     $399.00    |     $499.00   |    $999.00   |
  EPP: |   $239.20  |     $319.20    |     $399.20   |    $799.20   |
       |------------------------------------------------------------|
 
 VIDEO ADAPTERS
 
 3.) Video Adapters (Applies to orders for LPx Packaged systems ONLY 
                         - Must select one per each LPx system 
                         ordered)
 
         A) Description: Hi-Res Video Adapter; 1024X768; FOR USE WITH 
                         ALL MONITORS LISTED IN SECTION 2 ABOVE; 
                         S3-805 Based.
 
            Order #: FR-PC76H-EA
               List: $150.00
                EPP: $120.00
 
         B) Description: Hi-Res Video Adapter; 1024X768; FOR USE ONLY 
                         WITH 17" MONITOR LISTED IN SECTION 2 ABOVE; 
                         S3-928 Based.
 
            Order #: FR-PC76H-EB
               List: $300.00
                EPP: $240.00
 
 INTERNAL 3.5" STORAGE BAY DEVICES (OPTIONAL)
 
 4.) Internal 3.5" Storage Bay Devices - Optional (Select only 1)
                                         ~~~~~~~~
                Description: |   85MB IDE  |  127MB IDE  |
                     Order#: | FR-PCXAR-CE | FR-PCXAR-CC |
                      Price: |             |             |
                       List: |   $199.00   |   $259.00   |
                        EPP: |   $159.20   |   $207.20   |
                             |---------------------------|
 

 FRONT ACCESSIBLE 5.25" STORAGE BAY DEVICES (OPTIONAL)
 
 5.) Front Accessible 5.25" Storage Bay Devices-Optional (Select only 1)
                                                  ~~~~~~~~
         -------------------------------------------------------------
   Desc. |3.5" 1.44MB Floppy| 5.25" 1.2MB Floppy | 120/250MB QIC Tape |
  Order# |  FR-PC7XR-AA     |    FR-PC7XR-BA     |     FR-PCXAT-BB    |
   Price |                  |                    |                    |
    List |     $75.00       |       $75.00       |       $229.00      |
     EPP |     $60.00       |       $60.00       |       $183.20      |
         |------------------------------------------------------------|
 
 CACHE MEMORY (OPTIONAL - LPv and LPx Systems ONLY)
 
 6.) Cache Memory:
 
         Description: 0-128KB Cache Memory
             Order #: FR-PC75M-BA*
                List: $90.00
                 EPP: $72.00
 
         Description: 128KB-256KB Cache Memory
             Order #: FR-PC74M-BA**
                List: $90.00
                 EPP: $72.00
 
 * To order cache memory initially, you MUST purchase the FR-PC75M-BA
   first, as it is a pre-requisite to purchasing more cache memory (** ie.
   the FR-PC74M-BA).
 
 ** You MUST have already purchased the FR-PC75M-BA as it is a pre-requisite
    to purchasing this.
         
 COMMUNICATION DEVICES (OPTIONAL)
 
 7.) Communication Devices - Optional  (Select only 1)
                             ~~~~~~~~
                      ------------------------------------------- 
         Description: |  2400/9600  |  9600/9600  |  14.4/14.4  |
                      |  Data/FAX   |  Data/FAX   |  Data/FAX   |
              Order#: | FR-PCXBF-AA | FR-PCXCF-AA | FR-PCXDF-AA |
               Price: |             |             |             |
                List: |    $69.00   |   $229.00   |   $199.00   |
                 EPP: |    $55.20   |   $183.20   |   $159.20   |
                      |-----------------------------------------|
 

 PRINTER DEVICES
 
 8.) Printer Devices - Optional (Select only 1)
                       ~~~~~~~~
         -------------------------------------------------------------
 Desc:   |  DECmultiJET   |  DECmultiJET   |  DEClaser    | DECwriter|
         |     1000       |     2000       |    1152      |     95   |
 Tech.:  | Bubble Ink-Jet | Bubble Ink-Jet |   Laser      |Dot-Matrix|
 Intrfce:|    Parallel    |    Parallel    | Par/Serial   |Par/Serial|
 Order#: |   FR-LJ16P-AA  |   FR-LJ36P-AA  |FR-LN07C-CA * |FR-LA95-CA|
 Price:  |                |                |              |          |
 List:   |     $249.00    |     $399.00    |   $999.00    | $319.00  |
 EPP:    |     $199.20    |     $319.20    |   $799.20    | $255.20  |
         |-----------------------------------------------------------|
 
 * H8571-E & BC16E-10 (Adapter & Cable) incl. for Serial Interface.
 Additional Serial Adapter is Required, See Serial Adapter below.
 
 PRINTER CONNECTION CABLES & ADAPTER KIT
 
 8A.) Printer Connection Cables & Adapter Kit
 
 (Parallel Cable MUST be ordered for DECmultiJETs and DECwriter95)
 (Parallel Cable or MMJ Serial Adapter MUST be order for 
  DEClaser 1152)
 
              ---------------------------------------------------------
 Description: |  Parallel Cable  |  Parallel Cable   |  Nine Pin MMJ  | 
              | for DECmultiJETs | for DECmultiJETs  | Serial Adapter |  
              |  DEClaser 1152   |  DEClaser 1152    | DEClaser 1152  | 
              |  DECwriter 95    |  DECwriter 95     |     to PC      | 
              |------------------|--------------- ---|----------------|
      Order#: | FR-BC19M-06 (6ft)| FR-BC19M-10 (10ft)|   FR-H8571-J   |
       Price: |                  |                   |                |
        List: |      $15.00      |      $19.00       |     $15.00     |
         EPP: |      $12.00      |      $15.20       |     $12.00     |
              ---------------------------------------------------------
 
 ACESSORIES & SUPPLIES (OPTIONAL)
 
 9.) Accessories & Supplies - Optional
                              ~~~~~~~~
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
 Desc:| Single Tape |   3 Button | Digital-WPS| Ink Cart. |Color Kit  | 
      |  Cartridge  |    Mouse   |   Gold Key |DECmultiJet| DECwriter |
      |  120/250MB  |            |   Keyboar  | 1000/2000 |    95     |
 Ord: | FR-TZK2X-CA |FR-PCXAS-AA |FR-LK450-AA |FR-LJ50X-AA|FR-LA95X-CK|
 Price|             |            |            |           |           |
 List:|    $35.00   |    $75.00  |    $75.00  |   $20.00  |   $55.00  |
 EPP: |    $28.00   |    $60.00  |    $60.00  |   $16.00  |   $44.00  |
      |---------------------------------------------------------------|
 

 CONFIGURATION ASSISTANCE
 
 o Configuration Assistance:  These configuration charts have been 
 prepared to assist you in configuring a system to your specific needs. 
 If there are any other questions or if you are in any way uncertain 
 about your needs or configuration, please call Desktop Direct at 
 800-722-9332 and push button 2 for help.  PLEASE NOTE, that our 
 30-day money-back guarantee does apply to your order, but a $100 
 restocking charge will be applied to your return. 
 
 NON-LISTED OPTIONS
 
 o Non-listed options:  Options which do not appear in this 
 configuration chart but are listed in the catalog are available under 
 EPP.  However, these options will not be integrated into your system 
 order and will ship separately under a different leadtime based on 
 product availability.  You will be responsible for integrating any 
 Optional Devices NOT listed on this VTX EPP menu.
 
 TO PLACE AN ORDER
 
 8.) To place an order:
 
 Send certified check with completed order form to:
 
         Digital Equipment Corporation
         P.O. Box 9501, MKO1-2/EPP
         Merrimack, NH 03054
 
 FOR CREDIT CARDS
 
 For Credit Cards:
 
         Call 800-722-9332 and speak with a Telephone Sales Rep
 
 FOR DIGITAL CREDIT UNION LOAN
 
 For Digital Credit Union Loan:  
 
         Contact the DCU directly or read VTX EPP for details and 
         Loan information.

 Upon receiving loan approval, forward endorsed DCU check and 
 completed order form to:
 
         Digital Equipment Corporation
         P.O. Box 9501, MK01-2/EPP
         Merrimack, NH 03054

    re .61
    
    The EPP price quoted for the DEClaser 1152 is $799.20, but the price
    advertised in this month's MacUser and MacWorld is $699.99.
    
    Peter M
    
    

    
    	Does the advertised price include the toner cartridge ($99)?
    	Lechmere sells it for $699 without the cartridge and that 
    	costs another $99.  Just an FYI.

    Please take discussions concerning EPP product pricing to the EPP
    conference.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    re .61: DEClaser 1152 is at Lechmere for $699.99 including toner cart.
    The Lechmere in Framingham was out of stock.

    Just to add to this topic.  The 1152 on sale at Lechmere does not
    include the toner cartriage, I called and that's what I was told.  The
    Toner cost another $99.00
    
    The cost of the 1152 in EPP was reduced to 599, that's including toner
    cartriage, I bought one last week, it arrived in two days and is
    working great.
    
    Now this is the first time I used PCDIRECT.  I was impressed.  I called
    last Monday and was told that there was a rumor that the price would
    come down, could I call back the next day.  When I called back the
    price reduction was confirmed and I ordered.  The helpfulness of the
    sales rep. saved me $200.