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Conference 7.286::digital

Title:The Digital way of working
Moderator:QUARK::LIONELON
Created:Fri Feb 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5321
Total number of notes:139771

2260.0. "Help..DEC comprison to others..." by POBOX::RAHEJA (Dalip Raheja @CPO) Thu Dec 03 1992 13:54

    HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I've looked thru all my folders and tried finding it in this conference
    but no dice.....
    
    Someone had done an analysis of DEC's financial situation and compared
    it to the indicators of others in our industry...stuff like inventory
    turns, debt/equity ration etc. etc.  I am almost positive that I saw it
    it in this conference.
    
    I have to make a customer call tomorrow morning and the customer has
    requested that I discuss DEC's financial situation..
    
    
    Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
    
    thanks,
    
    Dalip
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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2260.1get a copy of BP's speechesVICKI::SMITHConsulting is the GameThu Dec 03 1992 16:108
       Dalip, I distinctly remember hearing Bob Palmer comparing DEC to the
    Competition (i.e, HP, etc. in one of his DVN televised speeches.
    note: He specifically mentioned some of the same financial parameters
    (metrics) that you have mentioned in your .0 base note.
    
    							good luck,
    								Bob
    
2260.2check 2139SAHQ::THRASHERThu Dec 03 1992 17:045
    Some of what you are looking for is in note 2139.0 which gives the text
    of BP's DVN.
    
    regards,
    Dan
2260.3See Sales UpdateINFACT::BEVISDig it, AL!Thu Dec 03 1992 18:524
    This was covered in great detail in the 19-OCT_1992 Sales Update:
    "Digital U.S. Business Vision, Q1/FY93 Presentation
    
    Its in VTX.
2260.4From May 20, 1992DV780::ROYForsan et haec olim...Thu Dec 03 1992 20:59341
From:	NWD002::MRGATE::"WROMTS::MROMTS::SALES::A1::NOTIFICATION" 20-MAY-1992 14:14:24.35
To:	DENVER::ROY
CC:	
Subj:	FINANCIAL COMPARISON OF DIGITAL AND COMPETITORS                        1

From:	NAME: SALES COMMUNICATIONS          
	FUNC: NOTIFICATION                    
	TEL: 297-2318                         <NOTIFICATION AT A1 at SALES at MRO>
To:	See Below


Management Notification #197 - From  DAN MARTIN, DTN-422-7415, @PTO
===========================================================================

The computer industry, or any industry for that matter, can get sick just like 
you and I.  Sometimes it is only a cold and it goes away in a short period of 
time, other times the cold is persistent, hangs around for a long time and 
turns into an pneumonia.  That's when it gets serious, we see a doctor(s) and 
maybe even go into the hospital.

As luck would have it, we all (HP/DEC/IBM/Wang/Unisys/Apollo/ETC.) visited the 
doctor about the same time and we all got admitted to the hospital, in the 
same room no less.

When the doctor checks us out the item that is most important to them is the 
health of the individual (company balance sheet) before they got sick, did the 
stay in pretty good shape, ie, did they put on too much weight (too much 
debt), did they exercise (turn those inventories) and did they have a low fat 
diet (long term debt to equity) among a host of other considerations.

I have attached the doctors report comparing a few of the patients but I'm 
saddened to say there is now an empty bed in the room as one of the patients 
has passed on, Apollo, and two others have been moved into intensive care, 
Unisys and Wang.

There has been unsubstantiated rumors circulated by some of the other patients 
(competitors) that DEC is very sick, the following information supports a 
healthy patient ready to be released when sales and revenue picks up while we 
will need to go on a leaner diet (cut more expenses) and improve our margins 
which a leaner diet will help with.

There are a host of numbers on the attached report, let me try to decipher 
them for you, I will focus mostly on DEC/IBM/HP.

The numbers are broken into three sections, results that are arrived at by 
comparing Balance Sheet items to other Balance Sheet items, the second section 
is comparing Income Statement (P&L's) items to other Income Statement items, 
and the third comparing Income Statement items to Balance Sheet Items.  There 
will be one exception, long term debt is part of section one but I will have 
the long term debt to equity figure with it, it would normally be in the third 
section.


Cash, we have alot of it, 1.547 billion to be exact, in excess of 500 million 
more than HP.  We have 36% of our current debt covered by cash alone, HP 24% 
and IBM 15%.

We also have more working capital (current assets less current liabilities) 
than HP.

Current Ratio and Quick Ratio, these are two key indicators lenders look at to 
determine the solvency of a company and the ability of a company to meet 
current obligations.  The current ratio is current assets divided by current 
liabilities and the quick ratio, sometimes referred to as the acid-test ratio 
is cash and A/R (liquid assets) divided by current liabilities.

We are nearly 2 to 1 on current ratio and better than 1 to 1 on the quick 
ratio, both are good results for this industry.  We are even with HP on the 
current ratio and better on the quick ratio and in both cases better than IBM.

Inventory turns, once again, out performing both HP and IBM, we are turning 
our inventory one time more than both IBM and HP and when you're carrying 9.8 
billion in inventory like IBM, that extra turn a year is significant.  We are 
also carrying less inventory than HP, HP is at 2.4 billion and we're at 1.8 
billion.  We can therefore do other things with the 600 million delta than 
have it sit as inventory.

Total liabilities to total assets, this is getting old but I have to say it 
again, we're the best and very well positioned also at 37%, HP 38% and IBM a 
whooping 60%.  IBM has some problems they will need to address here and it is 
tied to the next paragraph, long term debt.

Long term debt, we're outshining the pack again with just a mere 44 million 
representing just 6 tenths of one percent of our equity, I'm sure our 
stockholders are happy to hear that.  IBM has ballooned to 36% (13.2 billion) 
while HP is also well positioned at 4.5%

If we paid off our long term debt, we would still have 1.5 billion in cash, HP 
slightly more than 600K and IBM couldn't do it.

That's a review of the balance sheet, rather impressive I might add.  We are 
equal to or better than either of them in any comparisons.  Sounds like a 
healthy patient to me.

In section 2 and 3, the following items, return on assets, return on sales and 
return on equity, use profit as part of the equation.  Given that we have lost 
money, all of our number are negative.  So, while they are important 
indicators, interest, use of assets, etc., the balance sheet become a better 
indicator in negative or loss situations.

In section two there is interesting comparisons, particularly in the interest 
paid section.  While it's obvious that IBM has 4 1/2 times more revenue than 
us they paid out an astounding 1.4 billion in interest alone in the last four 
quarters compared to our 38 million.  Much of that is likely tied to their 
long term debt.  HP also paid out 80 million more than us in interest.  I can 
think of alot better ways to use my cash.

We're losing money so it shouldn't be a surprise that our margins are poor.

In section 3, we're all comparable.  In case you're wondering why our ratio of 
sales to cash is so much lower than the other two it's because we have so much 
of it compared to them.  That one is an easy one to live with.

So, now that you've see the doctors report I think you'll agree, we're busting 
at the seems to get out of the hospital and utilize the advantages we have 
both on products and services along with an outstanding financial position.

Dan Martin

PS - For those interested, I have historical information back to 1989.




                              Comparative Analysis


			    IBM	       DEC	   HP	      SUN       DG
              		    FYE         QE         QE         QE        QE
                           12/91       3/92       1/92       12/91     12/91

Last Four Qtr Revenue	  64,792M    13,970M 	14,949M	    3,355M    1,229M(1)


Cash			   5,151M     1,547M	   973M	      766M      249M
Current Assets		  40,969M     7,355M	 6,862M	    1,810M      742M
Current Liabilities	  33,624M     4,279M	 3,910M	      670M      325M 
Working Capital		   7,345M     3,076M	 2,952M	    1,140M      417M 
Current Ratio		    1.22%      1.72%	  1.75%	     2.70%     2.28%
Quick Ratio		     .88%      1.10%	  1.03%	     1.94%     1.70%
Inventory Turns	    	     6.6T       7.7T	   6.2T	     13.1T      8.7T
Days Inventory		    54.7       47.0	  58.1	     27.5      41.4
TTL Liab. To TTL Assets	    60.0%      37.6%	  38.2%	     43.4%     49.2%
Long Term Debt To Equity    35.7%        .6%	   4.5%	     26.0%     32.4%
Long Term Debt            13,231M        44M	   338M	      345M      N/A	


Interest Paid    	   1,423M        38M	   117M	       47M      3.6M
Gross Margin                49.9%      39.2%	  46.9%	     44.7%     43.6%
Operating Margin             7.5%      (8.8%)	  11.8%	      8.2%      1.7%


Sales To Current Assets	     1.9T       1.9T	   2.2T	      1.9T      1.7T
Sales To Assets               .7T       1.2T	   1.2T	      1.5T      1.2T
Sales To Cash               12.6T       9.0T	  15.4T	      5.1T      5.0T
Sales To Working Capital     8.8T       4.5T	   5.1T	      3.0T      3.0T
Sales To P.P.&E. 	     2.4T       3.9T	   4.4T	     10.0T      6.1T
Return On Assets            (3.1%)     (3.9%)	   7.0%	      8.5%      N/A
Return On Sales    	    (4.4%)     (7.3%)	   5.7%	      5.8%      N/A
Return On Equity	    (7.6%)     (5.6%)	  11.3%	     15.0%      N/A

(1) DG Revenue Number Is For Last Four Quarters as of 9/91.

The 'T' on the numbers represents times, ie., for DEC, Sales is 1.9 times larger 
than current assets.

Q&A

Question:

One point.  I saw an analysis done for 1989 which showed we needed more 
working capital to generate sales than either IBM or HP (Digital 35 cents per 
dollar of revenue, IBM 23 cents per dollar of revenue and HP a low 17 cents 
per dollar of revenue).  When one took into account the fact that we also then 
had the lowest revenue per person employed (Digital $102,886, HP $125,563 and 
IBM $163,724) it seemed to indicate to me that we were inefficient at using 
people and capital.

Am I correct in deducing from your analysis that we are now better than our 
competitors in using capital if not in using people?

Response:

The figures I have for the return on working capital or how much revenue is 
generated for every dollar of working capital is:

               IBM                    DEC                    HP
       12/91         12/89     3/92         6/90      1/92        10/89

        .11           .23       .22          .33       .20          .17
                                       
By looking at these numbers alone, one would venture to say that IBM is 
generating much more revenue for the amount of working capital they have.  
That is a true statement but as I caution people, the financial picture of a 
company is made up very much like a puzzle (some would say it is a puzzle!).  
It takes alot of pieces of information to draw an accurate conclusion.

Add the following pieces of information to the picture:

                        IBM                 DEC                  HP
                 12/91      12/89      3/92      6/90      1/92      10/89

Revenue           64.8       62.7      14.0      12.9      14.9      11.9

Current assets    41.0       35.9       7.4       7.6       6.9       5.7
Current liab.     33.6       21.7       4.3       3.3       3.9       3.7
Working capit.     7.4       14.2       3.1       4.3       3.0       2.0 


Amt of working     .11        .23       .22       .33       .20        .17
capital to revenue

IBM's 'improvement' from .23 to .11 was not a result of a dramatic increase in 
revenue, is was a result of their working capital decreasing by almost 50% and 
that decrease was not a result of a significant increase in current assets, it 
was as a result of a 50% increase in current liabilities, ie., that 7 billion 
dollar fluctuation in working capital only generated 2.1 billion in revenue.

The same can be said about us but to a smaller degree while HP has continued 
to demonstrate improvement with working capital increasing along with revenue.

So, to answer your question:

It is difficult to say that IBM is using it's working capital better than DEC 
or HP because of how it achieved those results (is it worth spending 7 billion 
to make 2 billion and what is the long term return for the 7 billion) and 
while we also demonstrated "an improvement" it was based on a similar but 
smaller trend.

Question:

You mentioned that usually in a negative or a loss situations, the balance 
sheet becomes a better indicator.  This sounds a bit weak to me.  Can you 
help give me some more ammunition regarding this.  Our competition is using 
the P/L numbers against us!!!!

In the field we are facing tremendous competition from HP.  From your 
numbers it looks like they are really the company to Beat!!!!  They also 
are $1B ahead of us in sales.  It seems like that almost in every category 
we are quite close with HP.  

One thing that would help me is a better understanding of some of the 
labels that you have chosen to highlight.  Such as "sales to working 
capital"; what does it mean to have a lower number than your 
competition????  Who looks at this figure and what deductions can I make 
about the company??

Also .. It seems that our operating margins are negative compared to the 
rest.  SO what???

Response:

Maybe a better choice of words would have been "an important indicator".

We are losing money which is no surprise to anyone, including our customers.  
That doesn't make it OK though.  The reason the balance sheet becomes 
important in those situations is that most companies need profit and positive 
cash flow to operate amd grow on and we're no exception.  When a company is 
losing money for an extended period of time or is anticipated to do so the 
only way they can survive during that period is off it's assets and the 
balance sheet is where they are, or borrowing.  Something that can hinder them 
from doing that is the debt that they have acquired over time that requires 
them to use the assets or some portion of them, usually cash to satisfy the 
debt, or resort to borrowing. (They can also be forced into selling other 
assets ( such as land, buildings, acquisitions, etc.) if cash and borrowing is 
a problem, remember, we're losing money so the operation of the company is 
eating away at cash flow).

Since we are virtually debt free we are not handcuffed with funding our debt 
along with the interest tied to it while also funding our losses and negative 
cash flow.  Two good examples are Wang and Unisys, they got themselves into 
enormous trouble because of their debt.

Put another way, your assets and working capital become your source of food 
during the period of recovery.  If you look over a period of time you can see 
that we have been using some of ours but we are still in good shape, while it 
is obvious we can't do it forever, thus programs to reduce expenses and 
increase revenue are instituted. 

There are many other examples but this should give you a flavor of what I was 
alluding to.

Regarding HP as the prime competitor, financially they are doing very well and 
I wouldn't even attempt to suggest anything else.  

Having just said that statement, we are equal to them on every balance sheet 
comparison, what would that suggest?

We are losing money though and they are not so our equal position is in 
jeopardy.  Our balance sheet will continue to erode until we turn the profit 
picture around.

Some of the other comparisons I believe you asked about are they ratio's of 
sales to items such as working capital.  They are indicators of the ability of 
a company to maximize items, like working capital, ie., what type of return 
are we getting for them.  They are all fairly even and no one of them can make 
a statement in of themselves.  They are part of a story if you will and the 
balance sheet and P&L's are they other part of the story.

Who looks at these numbers?  For the most part investors and lenders from 
outside the company and just about every senior manager at DEC.  Each on of 
those categories are assets of DEC, with the exception of equity, and those 
both inside and outside of DEC want to know if we are getting the best return 
(profit) and highest efficiency (number of times) of those items.

Regarding your question on the margins, there are two that are looked at, 
gross (profit) margin and operating (profit) margin.  Gross (profit) margin is 
revenue less cost of sales and the second is operating (profit) margin which 
gross margin less all the other costs it takes to run the company excluding a 
few items, the reserves we have posted are good examples of items that are 
excluded.

An operating loss indicates that during the normal course of business, more 
money is being expended then being brought in as revenue.  You may remember 
that when we posted our first loss at the end of Q4 it was noted that it was 
not an operating loss, that at the operating margin level we showed a profit 
but the reserve was more than the profit so we posted a net loss.

An operating (profit) margin loss simply means we are spending more money than 
revenue coming in, not a healthly long term situation.  That is what you 
mentioned your customers are focusing on.

"In general" they story is good.  We are healthy financially but like anyone 
who is sick, you have to get well as quickly as possible, an extended illness 
tends to make you weak and the recovery longer.  We are positioned to sustain 
a losing period for quite some time without having a significant impact to the 
company, obviously we don't care to do that.


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To Distribution List:

    <deleted>
    
2260.5GUCCI::HERBAl is the *first* nameThu Dec 03 1992 22:462
    Also try $VTX PROPOSAL. There are some rather well written pieces on
    Digital there designed to instill confidence as a Corporation.
2260.6Thanks!!!!!POBOX::RAHEJADalip Raheja @CPOFri Dec 04 1992 16:4211
    Thanks to all those that replied here and off-line.  I sometimes wonder
    why when we have the kind of people we have and when through technology
    we can create virtual teams of the 10's of thousands to address
    problems/requests.....why are we in the mess we are in.  I am convinced
    that it is not just external forces.
    
    Oh well...
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Dalip