Conference 7.286::digital

    Use DTN 223-6000  Then 2#  General info  then 9  Customer Service
    Should be a "REAL" person

    Make believe you have a pulse-only telephone (no tone dialing) and
    don't respond to any of the directions to "press X for...."  Eventually
    the system should default to a real human being.  If it doesn't, try
    calling the VP of Investor Relations.  :-)
    
    Mac
    
    PS:  That's Al Mullin.

    i wish they also change the electronics voice on one of their
    computers, one computer voice is ok, but one is real hard to understand, 
    i keep thinking i have much more money than i actually do, start planing 
    for early retirement based on the numbers i hear on the phone, plan to 
    buy expensive gifts for the loved ones, call the airlines and make 
    reservations, and buy magazines about florida, only to get very 
    disappointed when i get the statement and realize what has happened.

    /nasser

    Call 223-4020 - there will be a live body at that number.
    
    

    I believe Al Mullin left the Company.
    

    He SERPed

    I followed the directions in .1 and indeed talked to a real person
    (though I forgot to ask her name).  She was very helpful and quickly
    answered my questions.
    
    [This was certainly non-trivial to figure out though]

    Re .5, .6:
    
    You're right, Al SERPed.  I remembered that as soon as I entered my
    reply in .2.
    
    Mac

    ....I believe Eliot Quill is the Investor Relations Manager.
    
    M
    

    ooops, NOT Investor Relations - I mean Investor Services.  Two 
    different organizations.
    
    Sorry about that!
    
    

    Interesting finding this note right now...
    
    Due to a recent unfortunate event (the loss of the car plan) I decided
    to call Investor Services to see about a SAVE loan to buy said
    DECwreck...
    
    <SET MODE=TRYING-TO-KEEP-FLAME-AT-A-LOW-SIMMER>
    
    I was astonished to find that THE ONLY NUMBER IN THE BOOK IS FOR A
    $%^&*(&^%$ COMPUTER!  But, I called and listened to the menu, and
    selected the choice for SAVE (3).  After letting ANOTHER computer go
    through ANOTHER menu I NEVER FOUND an option to talk to anything alive.
    I tried calling around locally to anyone I thought MIGHT know how to
    get to a live creature out there - noone knew.  Finally, one secretary
    said I had to choose a different option and listen to an incredibly
    long-winded computer menu that eventually told me to press 9.  Why
    doesn't the computer FIRST tell you what to hit for something with a
    pulse?
    
    Then the REAL fun started...
    
    To get a loan FROM YOUR OWN SAVE ACCOUNT I was told:
    
    1.  You MUST apply through the computer.  The live person CANNOT take
    the information.
    
    2.  Paperwork will be delivered APPROXIMATELY 2 weeks later.  You must
    sign and NOTARIZE it.
    
    3.  The paperwork MUST be returned to Investor services by the 15th of
    the month.
    
    4.  On or about (after) the 1st of the FOLLOWING month Investor
    Services will liquidate funds.
    
    5.  Money will normally arrive by THE END OF THE MONTH!
    
    BASICALLY, if I were to call and apply today, the 20th of October, I
    COULD EXPECT TO HAVE THE MONEY BY JANUARY!!!!!!!!!
    
    I figure I must be either ignorant, naive, or just plain stupid about
    how money works because this seems absolutely ridiculous and appalling
    to me.  Do I understand correctly that the "2nd" largest computer
    company in the world can't move any faster than this to enable
    employees to borrow money against THEIR OWN SAVE ACCOUNTS?  What am I
    missing?

    What are you missing?  An opportunity to "manage your money"!
    
    (Sorry for the levity, but I couldn't resist.)
    
    Seriously, if I were in your shoes, I'd cancel my SAVE account quickly.
    That is an inexcusable dis-service.
    
    Dick

    
    The reason it is so difficult to take a SAVE Loan is that the accounts
    are only updated once a month.  In order to take a "draw", you have to
    have the loan paperwork submitted before the update occurs.  If you do,
    you will have your loan check by the end of that month (approx. two
    weeks later).  
    
    If you happen to miss the update for a given month, then you have to
    wait one full month until the next update, plus two more weeks. 
    Therefore, it is possible to take out a loan in as short as one month
    or as long as 2 months plus two weeks.
    
    I have taken several SAVE Loans over the last 8 years, and except for
    the loooong lead time, the process is pretty fair.

    It's not supposed to be easy to borrow from your SAVE accout.
    That's not its purpose.  Its purpose is to be a place you
    put money for your retirement.
    If you want a quick loan, go to a bank.

Access to the collective funds in our SAVE program is limited.  That's how they 
maintain the relatively high return.  (Try finding a savings account with 7.5%
interest these days, without locking your money in for years at a time.)

Thus the access for individual contributors (regardless of the funds you 
participate in) is also limited.

SAVE is not a bank.  The fact that you can borrow your own tax-deferred money,
and pay the interest to yourself, offsets the minor inconvenience of less than
optimal access, IMHO.

Bob

    
    Re: SAVE loans
    
    First, I agree about being able to talk to someone there.  It is
    a total pain in the B***.  When I *have* been lucky enough to talk
    to someone directly, I felt as if I was being patronized and was
    a nuisance for wanting to talk to a person.
    
    Second, as has been said the process for getting a loan is purposely
    not convenient for the reasons already given, but once you understand
    how it works it's actually much better than a bank because there's
    no evaluating of you as a risk.  If you follow the process, you get
    the loan. period.
    
    Steve

I called Investor Services and asked what happens if you have a SAVE loan and
you're laid off. I was told that you have to pay the amount back in full by the 
end of the year in which your termination date falls or there are multiple 
penalties (I don't remember the details). They will not arrange continued 
payments. I suppose that is because they can't take it from your weeky check
anymore. The DCU will arrange something for a loan. They said they would mail 
bills to your home.



Linda

    
    Does anyone remember what the rules are around penalties for
    early withdrawl in the case of financial hardship?  Suppose
    I'm laid off and need my save funds to prevent foreclosure
    on my house.  Do I have to pay the 10% penalty as well
    as the taxes?
    
    

    
    Re: .18
    
    > Does anyone remember the rules?
    
    Yes, the rules for *any* permitted withdrawal are :
    
    	o First, You pay to the IRS a penalty equal to 10% of the
    	  amount you withdrew at the time you make the withdrawal.
    
    	o Second, you pay regular income tax on the entire amount
    	  you withdrew when the tax is due.  If you make the withdrawal
    	  in December, then the tax is due the following April.  If
    	  you make the withdrawal in January, then the tax is due a year
    	  from the following April.
    
    	  In both cases be careful that you also don't get nailed with
    	  a penalty for having underwithheld.
    
    	  Before you ask, yes you owe regular income tax even on the
    	  amount that they took as the penalty.  
    
    
    Steve
    

    re .13:
    
>    The reason it is so difficult to take a SAVE Loan is that the accounts
>    are only updated once a month.  In order to take a "draw", you have to
>    have the loan paperwork submitted before the update occurs.  If you do,
>    you will have your loan check by the end of that month (approx. two
>    weeks later).  
>    
>    If you happen to miss the update for a given month, then you have to
>    wait one full month until the next update, plus two more weeks. 
>    Therefore, it is possible to take out a loan in as short as one month
>    or as long as 2 months plus two weeks.
    
    I don't care that they only update once a month, I just can't believe
    their cutoff date is more than 2 WEEKS before the update.  When I
    questioned the person I spoke to she indicated that it was to give them
    time to get the applications entered into the system - now lets see,
    she said they MAY get as many as 500/MONTH and only had 2 people to
    type them in...  22 average working days, 2 people, 500 entries... hm...  
    
    Perhaps we could make use of some of the technology we brag about and
    instead of mailing papers around, then having people type them into a
    system - WE COULD FILL IN ELECTRONICALLY...  like we did when we opted
    for the new, higher-priced, disability coverage?  Then maybe instead of
    needing 2+ weeks, they would only need a day - or even less... 
    
    BTW:  I called the *&^%$# computer to apply for the loan since I was
    SPECIFICALLY told  "You can ONLY apply through the computer, no human
    can send you the paperwork"  EXCEPT THAT THE COMPUTER WASN'T WORKING
    THAT DAY!!!!!!  So, I spoke to a human who passed me to a not
    particularly cooperative SAVE loan person who once again told me I HAD
    to apply through the touch-tone computer - WHICH SHE KNEW WAS
    INOPERATIVE.  After a conversation she grudgingly agreed to go into the
    system and have the application sent - it took approximately 10 seconds
    while I was on the phone - significantly LESS time than was spent
    telling me I had to apply through the inoperative touch-tone system.
    
    re .14: 
    
>    It's not supposed to be easy to borrow from your SAVE accout.
    
    Ahhhhh.  Kind of like "Its NOT supposed to be fun, that's why its
    called WORK?"
    
re .15:
    
>SAVE is not a bank.  The fact that you can borrow your own tax-deferred money,
>and pay the interest to yourself, offsets the minor inconvenience of less than
>optimal access, IMHO.

    I agree within limits...  It isn't the idea I find appalling, its the
    bureaucratic crap.  I find the process to be significantly WORSE than
    "minor inconvenience of less the optimal access".  Dealing with DCU and
    waiting for things to arrive by mail is what I consider "minor
    inconvenience of less the optimal access".  
    
    What are these people going to do if even a minor percentage, say 5000
    people, who've lost their company car decide to use THEIR OWN SAVE
    money to buy transportation?