Conference 7.286::digital

re: .0

So, she could have worded the letter better. Besides that, what was wrong with
what she did? I think it demonstrates the enterprising spirit that DEC is/was
supposed to have fostered. Was it an out right scam? If not then whats the harm?
People out of work may need insurance and if she could provide it, well...
I'm also glad the DEC didn't just hand out names but, I have to admire her
determination.

- George

    
     I am more concerned that she could take down license plate numbers,
    go to the registry and get home addresses. Why would the registry
    give out that kind of information without it being related to some
    kind of motor vehicle issue? And what about DEC security? I would
    think that what the woman was doing would fall under the suspicious
    character category and security should have noticed her and told her 
    to leave.
    
     On the other hand, maybe she should have gone to personel and asked
    them to tell TFSO candidates about her service and if they wanted to
    they could get more information from her.
    
    

    Reply to .02
    
    It doesn't take a brain scientist to be able to pull off what she did. 
    Anyone can gain access to the Registry's database.
    
    I do agree with your comment about DEC Security.  But maybe they were
    busying escorting our beloved friends who were TFSO'd out of the
    building. 

     Security did just what you suggested. She was on the property and
    security escorted her off. She then sat across the street on a public 
    street and took numbers down as folks left. BTW, I called her and told
    her that this was causing a problem (her sending out letters). She said
    she understood the problem because she was laid off from a place
    recently. She also said she would stop doing this...

    i dont see any harm if she just sends the letters to the employees, as 
    long as she does not call us at home, that will be annoying, i hate 
    those strange people who call you home trying to sell you things, like 
    these newspaper people who seems to call every other week wanting to sell 
    their paper , every time they call they get me when iam in the middle of 
    my daily nap, i keep telling them that i cant read, but they dont seem 
    to get it, i know they'll call again. 

    /Nasser

Here in Puerto Rico, we are given a three-day training in how to start 
your own business. This program is subsidized by the goverment and the 
instructors mentioned that they are having a booming business. This 
prompted some of the attendees to (half-jokingly) mention that they were
profiting from somebody else's sorrow.

I saw it as an eye-opening experience, and for the first time since March
when our layoffs were announced, I'm looking positively to my termination
date.

In a capitalist society, you try to take opportunities where they are, 
as long as they are legal and ethical. (the training I mentioned above
included a section on ethics).

Miguel A. Alvarez (first time writer)

    My thanks to security for throwing her off the property.
    IMHO there's something immoral about capitalizing on someone's misery. 
    I mean really, an enterprising insurance salesperson could have sold
    life insurance to the christians as they marched into the collisium
    too!  They probably needed it but it just smacks of opportunism. 
    It's just very tacky, unsympathic and unfeeling.  Maybe what I really
    object to is the WAY she did it and the way she worded the letter...
    YUK!!
    I don't think I would want someone that out-for-themselves handling my
    insurance.
    

    re.5  When these people call you at home tell them you are busy and you
    would like their home number so you can call them at their home at your
    convenience. When they tell you they don't like to take work related
    calls at their homes tell them you don't either..... I saw this on tv
    so I tried it and it works.....Of course this depends - if the person
    is working out of their house it won't work....

re .-1

It'd work for me even if they work at home.
My waking hours are slightly later in the day than most people
around here so "at my convenience" would probably be at, oh, 1:00am.  :-)

    
    Re:
    
>     I am more concerned that she could take down license plate numbers,
>    go to the registry and get home addresses.
    
    Welcome to the world of today and big brother. It astounds me that
    people don't realize how easy it is to get info on others. Witness my
    earlier note here. That was with the help of the Mass Registry and an
    inept DEC VTX database designer it would have been dead easy for
    someone find out the salary of any Digital employee who lived in MA who had
    a MA driving license with with their SS number as their license number.
    In case you weren't aware MASS driving records are public record.
    
    Dave 

>     I am more concerned that she could take down license plate numbers,
>    go to the registry and get home addresses.

Some people do this all the time.

When I was in CA, a young lady working for me received a letter from a man
that saw her in a gas station. 

He took her plate number and wrote to the DMV (I suppose that's "Registry"
to you in Mass.) with some story about her being involved in an accident.
The DMV gave him her name and home address with no questions asked.

Naturally, the letter was a come on, asking her for a date, etc.

Some people have no moral values at all.

Bob.

    
    Now days, could the new "stocking" laws be applied to .11
    
    i.e. - This type of activity is illegal in some states in the U.S.
    
    

    New stocking laws?  They're telling us what we can wear on
    our legs?

    
    re: .14 - thank you
    
    
    

    The Mass. Registry seems to be very cooperative!
    
    I got hit by a bus leaving a concert once. The bus driver didn't have
    his registration with him. A call to the bus lines the next day only
    produced an answer of "We insure our buses with many insurance
    companies" and he hung up on me. I called the Registry and gave them
    the license plate number. Within 30 seconds I had the Insurance company
    name and all sorts of info about the insured. It was simple.
    
    And I got my car fixed, too :-)

    Registration information is, as was already pointed out, a matter of
    public record.  This is also true in Colorado (and I would guess it is
    true in all states, though perhaps not), but there you have to pay a fee,
    show identification, and sign your name when you request that
    information.  I was told by an employee of the license branch in
    Colorado Springs (I never heard it called a "Registry" before I moved
    to Massachusetts) that those additional requirements were established
    in response to some incident where a man did get registration
    information on women he found attractive and subsequently harass them.

    -- Mike

    You at least have to come into the Registry to fill out a form; I don't
    know about a fee because I just inquired about the procedure.  They do
    give you the information, but I believe it has to be in conjunction
    with an actual motor vehicle violation.
    
    

re                    <<< Note 2130.18 by POWDML::COSTIGAN >>>
                 -< and you KNOW what the lines are like. . . >-

>  give you the information, but I believe it has to be in conjunction
>   with an actual motor vehicle violation.

not in Colorado, all you have to do is say you want to do a tag trace, they
give you a short form to fill out and you pay $3 (I think). You don't need
to give a reason at all. You can make up a plausible reason if you want, but
I don't think they care as long as they get their $3. I had a problem with some
work I'd had done on a car. I got the license plate number from the mechanics
car, got his drivers licence # and address from the motor vehicle dept. I took
him to small calims court & won. When he didn't pay I got a lein against his car
(easy to do when you have a court judgement) and he had to refund my money or
lose his car. There's no such thing as privacy any more, you can get all sorts
of information about nearly everyone, if you know where to look.


Regards
Barry 
    
    

I think it's easy to get information out of the Mass. registry even if
it's for commercial reasons. I kept getting mail shots for Toyota owners
as my 2 year old Toyota was supposedly coming up to the time when
people usually change them [I don't own a Toyotal]. I just trashed the
mail shots until one day I got a Tax demand for the car from the Town.
I found out that the town got the information about the car from the
Registry. Further investigation revealed the Registry had my car
details completely wrong, I wasn't the least bit surprised about that
but I was that the details of my car had been "leaked" for commercial
purposes. No wonder Mass. car theft is so high, the thieves can probably
get  names and addresses of all the people who have the type of
car they want to steal.

    A small company I worked for was very successful in getting the entire
    state of Nevada's license and registration records for a political
    candidate we were doing work for.  Cross-ref'ed with TRW data (SSN
    are/were you ID number on your license), very effective canvasing and
    direct mail campaigns were launched (circa 1985-86).
    
    It was very scary finding out just how much data you can get from
    'information brokers'.  I had to wash my hands for weeks after that
    project...
    
    --- Gavin

    SO.... Let me see if I got this right....?????!!!!
    
    The Privacy act is for sale.... As long as you have the $$$ you get the
    goods, on anybody, at anytime..!!!!????
    
    I love this country.... It's gettin' wonderfuller and wonderfuller
    everyday..... What a country..!
    
    

    This is a Soapbox topic, come join us!
    
    

    This is getting very far off "the Digital way of working," but to
    forestall more speculation about getting driver's records in
    Massachusetts, here are the facts.  This is from personal experience.
    
    To obtain the license and registration records for a Massachusetts
    resident, first get as complete a name and address as possible, with
    license plate number if possible.  Go to the Mass. Registry of Motor
    Vehicles, 100 Nashua St, Boston (behind North Station) to the third
    floor.  There, for a $5 fee, a Registry employee will provide complete
    records, no questions asked.  The Registry said on the phone that this
    service is not available at branches.
    
    Wes

    What registry? what fee? just go to any police station and give them
    a halfway plausible reason why you need it and they'll do it while
    you wait. I've done it a number of times. They have handed me the
    whole print out, right down to the SS # and DOB. Just look legitimate,
    I've only been questioned once and they still gave me the info. The
    letter from the "rebel without a clause" insurance agent sounds like
    a kick. I'd respond with the following letter. " Dear soon to be
    indicted insurance agent. In view of your up coming need for quality
    legal representation, my I offer the following....." should get an
    amusing response...8^)

re: .25

>    I'd respond with the following letter. " Dear soon to be
>    indicted insurance agent. In view of your up coming need for quality
>    legal representation, my I offer the following....." should get an
>    amusing response...8^)

I don't get it, just what is it that you think that she would/should be
indicted for? Is it illegal to jot down someone's license plate number
and take it to the authorities (whomever they are) and ask for the name,
address, etc, etc? If so, the authorities should be indicted for giving
it out.

The tale told in .0 strikes me as one where if she was totally successful
in her endeavor and 10 years from now she was to her company what Ken is to DEC,
people would be saying "Gee, what a creative idea she had, I wish I had thought
of it".

- George

Let me ask the following question to those who think the woman in .0
did something illegal:

What if, instead of being an insurance agent, she owned a company and
felt that she could use alot of those that were to be laid off from
DEC. Further, not wanting to pay 'headhunter' fees she decided to do
what the person in .0 did. Thus the letter that DEC people got didn't say that 
she wanted to sell them insurance but, said that she wanted those interested
to come in for an interview. What whould you say then, based on how she 
ultimately got names and addresses?

- George

    George has it right!  Anyone is free to make any observations s/he
    wants while on the public roads.  Your license tag number is not yours,
    it belongs to the state.  Your name and address are not private, they
    are public property.  There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about
    what rights and privileges people really have.  The right to be
    anonymous is not one of them.
    
    Dick

    just because it's legal, doesn't make it RIGHT!