Conference 7.286::digital

    Personnel Policies and Procedures section 6.54 covers both of
    the issues you bring up.  It prohibits posting mail messages without
    permission and/or with the author's identifying information removed,
    and also lists "making defamatory statements" as an example of
    "misuse."
    
    The full text of the policy can be read by accessing
    VTX ORANGEBOOK and selecting the option to locate a particular
    policy by number (6.54 in this instance).   This and other policies
    you can read there describe actions which may be taken if you
    believe a policy has been violated.
    
    				Steve

I've been called many names in mail over the years, most of the name callers
are either nolonger here or have grown up. 

Dave.

    Face it, some people have a sense-of-humour failure every morning or
    their lives.
    
    Forget it and move on...

    Nasser,
    
     Being a Canadian my english is sometimes not so good. eh! Ask the 
     person irritating you how his second language is/was when he was in 
     "learning" mode of that second language.
    
     Dont reply much but this kind of arrogance always upset me.
    
     regards 
     Canuck

    The bum who slimed you is no better than that, pure slime!  Keep your
    chin up and the nomination is in the Mail!
    

    I n a former job, I had a boss who would send out some of the most
    venomous and profane messages that hava ever crossed the network. 
    What he didn't think about was how easy it would be for the recipient
    to simply forward the message to his manager or to personnel.
    This was done in several instances, by several recipients, and this
    particular person is no longer a problem due to being involuntarily
    transferred. He was also known for verbal and threatened physical 
    assaults against employees and co-workers. He was indeed fortunate. If
    enough persons had pressed the case, he would have been out pounding
    the pavement.
    
    Anyone who sends a threatening, or insulting message or note is clearly 
    jeopardizing their own continued employment. A good rule is to never 
    post or send anything that you would not want to appear in your
    personnel folder (as may well happen).
    
     

Nasser,
    I have a lot of respect (and jealousy) for people who can speak more
than one language.  I have tried (without much success) to teach myself 
foreign languages,  and I know how difficult it can be to get syntax and
grammar exactly right.
    You might try using a grammar checker as well as a spell checker.  It
might help you to avoid a situation like this in the future.

-nick

Nasser, is it possible that the person who called you "a liar and a
scoundrel" was only making a joke? I speak from experience (which I'm
sure Nasser can confirm) in saying that understanding humor is the last
and most difficult thing you learn when learning a new language.

Not seeing the original exchange, it's impossible to know, but not many
people these days use the word "scoundrel" in a nasty way. Furthermore,
the expression "a liar and a scoundrel" is a pretty typical cliche
which is very often used in a humorous way. Perhaps there was no more
insult intended by the sender of the mail than by you in your original
note (which I saw and enjoyed very much!). Is this possible?

In any case, as everyone has said, if the criticism really was serious,
ignore it. The author will have seen by now that he/she was wrong in
saying such insulting things. Taking such matters to Personnel is the
*last* thing you should consider doing.

    Nassar,
    
    Only you can speak to the true intent on your comments, and you need
    to understand that your comments can be interpreted as HIGHLY
    offensive.  If you can not understand why someone would question your
    true intent, I believe you need to re-think your position. 
    
    Secondly, it is EXTREMELY inappropriate for you to involve the entire
    notes community in your personal battle with this person.  By checking
    Policies and Procedures, you can find out what the policies are as they
    relate to this subject, but again you leave yourself open to the
    question of your true intent.  Did you really intend to get
    clarification on a policy - because if you did you did not have to go
    into such detail about this issue.  If you were attempting to gain
    support from the notes community to your cause, that IMO is
    inappropriate and should discontinue.  No matter what the person said
    to you, at least it was done via mail.  You brought it out into this
    note.
    
    I also think the earlier reply calling an unknown person a slime -
    without first knowing all the details involved - in inappropriate and
    should be removed from this conference.
     

    RE: .9
    
    Loosen up!
    
    Popeye
    

    re:10
    
    Although English may be your primary language, and mine is, I could use
    a translation ... what are you attempting to say???

    Nassar,
     I read what you had written in that note, and knew immediately that
    it was a typo.....sorta funny at that. I'm sure that anyone who had a
    chance to read it, and had half an idea, also knew it was a typo.
    
    Note 2124.9 can speak of "HIGHLY offensive" but if you had told the
    person in question that it was just a *keyboard error*, that person
    should have continued on with life, not start with the name-calling
    game.
    
    Is THIS what the "new DEC" will be all about?
    Hope not.
    
    Watching every letter that I type.......

    RE:  .11
    
    I mean:
    
    In my opinion, there's more than one level of humor going on in this
    string, and your reply struck me as being pompous, officious, and
    showing that you didn't take your comic-awareness pill this morning. 
    Is that clear enough?
    
    Popeye
    

    I don't know whether it is appropriate for Nassar to address the
    secondary issue here, but I DO know that Nassar's original note gave
    me one of the few good laughs I had the other day :-)
    
    Karen
    
    PS:  I've gotten better (and more appreciative) of Nassar's tongue-
    in-cheek notes and I also felt immediately that this was NOT a delib-
    erate attempt by Nassar to be offensive.  BTW, my host system does
    not have Grammar Checker installed; some of the options offered by
    the spell checker are hilarious in and of themselves :-)
    

    re:13
    
    Thank you ... that I understand.
    
    Chuck

    
    	The first time I read one of Nasser's replies to a note, I said
    	to myself 'Is this guy for real?'. When I read it again, I smiled.
    	Now, everytime I see his name on a reply I ready myself for some
    	of his humor and hilarious outlook on life. And although some of
    	the humor in his replies can be attributed to the second-language
    	thing, I strongly suspect that most of it is intentional. Whatever,
    	he's a really funny guy. I too read his original reply yesterday,
    	and belly-laughed for 5 minutes.
    
    	But, Nasser, this seems like it could best be handled between you
    	and the other person off-line, don't you think?
    
    	John

    Nasser:
    
    My wife is a French immigrant and she often makes the sort of error
    that you did, only verbally.  Because she is a charming, pretty, and
    vivacious person, her "mistakes" are always taken in a humorous way by
    those whom she is addressing or, quite frequently, by those who happen
    to overhear her.  Yet, every once in a while she will encounter an
    individual who does not or cannot appreciate her manner of speech.
    
    That used to cause her a lot of anguish, especially after being rudely
    reprimanded in a public location.  However, she eventually learned to
    master those situations and she now fearlessly challenges her
    inquistors as to their linguistic skills, foreign origins, or whatever
    else is heaped upon her.
    
    Personally, I thought your note was very funny, typos and all. 
    However, I would suggest that, because this is a work environment,
    occassional jostlings be ignored.  After all, referring to the mail
    message you received, the calibre of the sender is reflected therein.
    
    As to the appropriateness of this note, I think it is fine, as it does
    reflect the way we work.
    
    Williams

One of the few joys in life is a note from \nasser

ccb

    some are saying i should handle this off line, great , i'd love too,
    but the third party never replied back to me after last reply shown
    in .0, and even after i first potsted the mail exchanges and befor 
    reposting it i wrote to him and he did not care to reply.
    
    his reply was not a humor to me, i dont not know the guy from eve, 
    if i knew him and he a had a big smily face and he had answered
    me back after i wrote to him i might think it was some kind of humor,
    i did not know what scrundle means anyway , i had to look it up.
    
    this is not first time i got insulting mail, sometimes people
    ask, and i explain and still get screamed at me even after i explain, some
    dont even bother to ask for explainations.
    
    /nasser
    i did not spell check

    Ignore it Nasser. There are many people around who take themselves MUCH
    too seriously...
    
    Laurie.

    re:19
    
    Then take it up with that person's manager or Personnel, not in notes.
    
    Chuck

re:                     <<< Note 2124.21 by BSS::C_BOUTCHER >>>

>    Then take it up with that person's manager or Personnel, not in notes.
    
You bring up a very good point but, exactly how does one go about finding
out who the manager is?

- george

/nasser,

I've been admiring your courage and sense of humor, and have often thought of
telling you so. This note string seems like the best place to do that.

Larry

    

    I did read the original note and can see the possibility of an
    interpretation with a sexual connotation.  I do not see why anyone would
    have found this interpretation offensive.  After all, it is in the best
    American tradition to use allegory when discussing sex isn't it?  As to
    grammatical errors, I could care less how Nasser conjugates.

    So let me get this straight, this string is about Nassar getting e-mail
    calling him a liar - and this is unacceptable to the majority reading this
    note even though ithe comments were not originated on this note, but 
    calling others "nasty" and still others "slime" in an open forum 
    is acceptable.  Is there something wrong with this picture?   
    
    re;24 No matter what you think "best American tradition" is, in any for
    the general topic os "sex" in any form is inappropriate.
    
    It will be interesting to see what other insults can be used here in
    support of someone having been insulted.  The double standard is
    incredible ...

Nasser,

I try to maintain the following philosophy; I try to treat people they way I
would have them treat me.

If someone thinks I have offended (insulted,injured,etc) them and they are not
sure, then I probably have not.  I seldom intend harm, but when I do, I try very
hard to make sure there is little question about my intentions.  

So, if I have said something to someone and they feel offended, I hope that they 
are adult enough to inquire about my intentions.  I will (and do) apologize if I 
have inadvertently offended someone. I will profusely apologize if I have 
intentionally offended someone due to a misunderstanding. 

If they do not ask why I have offended them, then it is THEIR problem.

The other side of that coin is when I feel I have been offended without cause. I
will say to the other person, "Did you know you have hurt me?  Why did you do 
that?".  Usually, we work it out in an adult manner.

Unfortunately, there are a multitude of jerks in this world who are not willing
to behave in an adult manner.  Every now and then we come across one of them.
People are allowed to be jerks. And that is THEIR problem. If you let it bother 
you, then YOU have let it become YOUR problem.

By the way, if any readers think I am referring to them, I am not and I apologize
if any reader thinks I am calling them a jerk.  :-)

FWIW

Dave

    I think it is also important to understand that what is often presented
    as inadvertent errors, or groping with English as a second language, is
    in fact quite deliberate. The former I can deal with; the latter I find
    disingenuous. Let's stop pretending to be something we are not, OK?

    
    
    	I think that being able to put a humorous twist on a second
    	language, deliberate or not, is an art. I think that being
    	able to determine whether an error is inadvertent or deliberate
    	is at best an art. I think that implying that someone is
    	pretending to be something that they are not is pretty pre-
    	tentious.
    
    	I think that I don't know where this reply is going...it's a
    	sloooooow day.
    
    	BTW, did anyone hear that Bob Palmer will be doing another DVN
    	next Wednesday? The day before he officially takes over.

    re .27 "disingenuous"
    
    I agree with you, indeed, I think such is worse than disingenuous, I
    think it is scurrilous, (perhaps even scrundleous).

>     <<< Note 2124.0 by STAR::ABBASI "Spell checking is a family value" >>>

>    mail from the other person to me saying that since English is not
>    my main language he likes to point to me my misspelling of the word

Nassar,
	English may not be your first language, and your grammar may
 be a little unusual at times, but you frequently make your points a 
 lot more effectively than most native English speakers.

	Craig

p.s. I don't spell check :-)

    I was not privvy to the original note and the misspelling (did I spell
    that right?) of the word cooking.  I am at a loss to explaining how
    this can result in an offense (or "offence", take your pick).
    
    I have tried several permutations of the work and all I can come up
    with is "cocking", which I presume is smoe sort of reference to game
    birds (oh, I hope "game birds" has no offensive connotations to anyone
    from the U.K. who may read this note).
    
    English (particularly U.S. English) is quite interesting.  The number
    of "normal" words that we cannot use, or must restrict our use of, is
    growing daily.  A few years ago "faggot" meant only a "bundle of
    sticks" - that definition is no longer in the Webster's Ninth I have on
    my desk.  Then there is the word "pork", means "the fresh or salted
    flesh of swine" (if you believe Webster).
    
    In the end, somebody, somewhere, is going to find someway to twist your
    words into something offensive - because they probably have nothing
    better to do.
    
    Ignore them, Nasser.  They don't deserve the attention.
    

        re .28
    	<I think that being able to put a humorous twist on a second
    	<language, deliberate or not, is an art. 
    	I agree    
        <I think that being able to determine whether an error is
    	<inadvertent or deliberate is at best an art. 
    	I agree here too, but would like to add that -as with all talents-
    	some of us are much better artists than some others.

        There is no question in _my_ mind that Mr Abbasi has been being
    	mischievous in this conference.
        I feel sorry for those who -it seems to me- may not have sufficient
    	self-esteem to make such a judgement.
    
        As a matter of fact ... (but no that would be scrofulous)

    
    re: .32
    
    Oh, boy, now I'm confused.  (And yes, it's a slow day!)
    You believe Mr. Abassi is doing mischief, and we, who take him at
    his word, are patronizing him because we have low self-esteem?
    
    /Mike
    

    Nasser

    I predict that there will come a day when some one will read a note and
    belly laugh uncontrollably.  The person in the next cube will ask "whats
    so funny?"  The person rolling on the floor in uncontrollable laughter
    will say

                   "That was a good "Nasser" that was!"

    I do so enjoy your double and triple meanings!  Especially when I
    havn't caught them the first time threw!

    Greg

    ps: there is a lovely book about homonymous humor that every one should
	read called "When the Rough Tough Ploughs the Dough."  A little
	humour is just what the doctor ordered these days.................

    As a non English I have really admired Nasser's courage to play with
    the language. It would certainly be nice to hear some of his jokes in
    his mother tongue (if I just could understand them :-)).
    
    We all who speak and write English as a second language make errors in
    words, structure and idioms based on the features in our own language
    and culture. There is now way for us to become Anglosaxons and most of us 
    don't even want to.
    
    Lets look the incident, which Nasser described, a little less egocentric
    way then in some of the replies so far. Digital or any other American
    multinational is totally dependent on these people from different
    nations to be willing to learn English and work with it. One big Swedish
    customer said me once when I wanted to use English as a sales support
    language (before Digital times): "We do not want to buy in English.
    We want to fully understand what we are buying." And there are
    certainly nations, which take it more strongly then Swedish people,
    sometimes by necessity.
    
    So some people need to be gateways between languages and cultures for
    Digital to be succesful. Situation is not improved by arrogance,
    untolerance or any other form of stupidity. What if that arrogance
    is in occassions directed towards a client. It's not enough that
    Nasser (or me or...) ignores that behavior. People working for Digital
    can and must certainly do better then that. Digital needs all the
    business it can get.
    
    --Ritva
    

    <You believe Mr. Abassi is doing mischief, and we, who take him at
    <is word, are patronizing him because we have low self-esteem?

    No,

    I believe he is frequently mischievous
    I believe the rest actually fall into lotsa categories, some of which
    are ...
    a)those who are confident in their judgement that he is frequently
      mischievous and are irritated by it
    b)those who are confident in their judgement that he is frequently
      mischievous, approve of and maybe even envy his adriot use of a
      language that isn't even his native tongue, and are dissembling when
      they say he is being straight forward. 
    c)those who kinda feel there is something just a little bit not quite
      kosher but can't put quite their finger on it, but their intuition is
      that their chain is being jerked. This is the only group I feel a
      little sorry for. Kinda cuz they don't quite have the self-confidence
      to put into words just what they are feeling.
    d)those who have ignored the entire string
    e)many many others including ...
    f)those who think he is either a clumsy typist or an inept speller (or 
      both) and feel sorry for him.
    g)those who are being insulted and don't even know it.
    h)those who think that jerking people's chains is cute ...

    You get my drift?

    Anytime that you attempt to communicate, you run the risk of being
    misunderstood or of offending.  When this happens (assuming that they
    tell you), you need to reconcile with the other person.  Since you do
    not want to do this too often, try to communicate clearly and
    succinctly.  This is more difficult in written communications than
    verbally.  It is also more difficult when you employ humor and satire.
    
    Please continue to practice the 'art' of communicating.  Even if
    English is not your 'first' language, you should strive to improve your
    command of English because it will benefit your employer.  (Most of us
    are using the same spelling checker that we received in grade school.)
    Apologize when you offend, and thank the helpful people that tactfully
    point out your mistakes.
    
    Mark

    
    hang tough /nassar...
    
    Say what you want, how you want.....this country (and it's associated
    written, taped, and filmed media) have become much too sensitized.  The
    term 'mind your own business' has been lost in everyone's attempt
    to legislate the correct actions we should all take.  Even though
    you say you made a mistake this time, the next time may not be a
    mistake, but you'll get the same heat.  
    
    There are far too many who would make you say it the way
    they want to hear it rather than going somewhere else.  But we don't
    want to get into a discussion of 'meatheads' who want to control
    the way we think, speak, and express ourselves. 8^)  Oooops,
    anyone who's offended by 'meathead' I humbly apologize
    for making you realize who your are....8^)
    
    I guess my real point is not to sweat it if you are satisfied
    with yourself.  Someone somewhere will always disagree or
    be politically or personally offended when you haven't
    even directed it at them specifically.  
    
    As for posting e-mail in notesfiles, the P&P sounds like
    it says some things that are way too restrictive.  Anyone
    who doesn't want something to be public better keep themselves
    out of mail and make a phone call.  E-Mail has never
    been any more private than a clear telephone line.
    
    my $.02...
    
    bert  
    
    

    People are responsible for their own (mis?)interpretations of what they
    read. If a misinterpretation comes to light, then I will clarify
    as best I can, but at no time will I accept responsibility for some
    else's misunderstanding.
    
    fwiw,
    
    Dick

re:                      <<< Note 2124.22 by THATS::FULTI >>>

>>    Then take it up with that person's manager or Personnel, not in notes.
    
>You bring up a very good point but, exactly how does one go about finding
>out who the manager is?

Well that's simple ... you look it up in the latest "Who's Who at Digital" 
organizational directory!

Steve (still futilely waiting for a current edition past June 1992)
    
    P.S.  Hang in there Nasser.  You're doing just fine, and as someone
    else already mentioned, you're communicating better than many native
    "English" speakers.

    
    	Wow!  Over 40 replies without going down a rathole.
    
    	If this had been about something stupid, like the future of
    	Digital, we would have taken a left turn around 2124.30something
    	and be talking about finding multilingual babysitters.
    
    	Thanks Nasser.  This destroys my Unified Note Theory that eventually
    	all Note threads will merge into one common superstring note.
    
    	Keep up the good work Nasser, don't let the anals grind you down.
    	(How would you say that in Latin?) <<---rathole opportunity
    
    -rjc-
    

    >I predict that there will come a day when some one will read a note and
    >belly laugh uncontrollably.  The person in the next cube will ask "whats
    >so funny?"  The person rolling on the floor in uncontrollable laughter
    >will say
    >               "That was a good "Nasser" that was!"
    
    Actually this is not far from what happened a couple days ago here
    in the office.
    
    I was working when all of a sudden, out of nowhere came hysterical
    laughter from one of my coworkers cubes.  After I heard rolling on
    the floor, I walked over and asked what was so funny. After she wiped
    the tears from her eyes, she told me to read note xx.* in this 
    conference and I'd understand.  
    
    After reading the note, I walked over and said, "so, is the the first
    time you've read /nasser?"
    
    I must admit, I seldom 'next unseen' one of his replies.
    
    Keep up the good work /nasser, you're a breath of fresh air.  
    
    Jodi-
    

	Isn't language a wonderful and colourful thing?  In the
	UK a faggot is a spicey meatball served with gravy and
	regularly advertised on television by a voice which sounds
	rather similar to Timothy Dalton's.  "Brain's Faggots" he
	announces in round and ringing tones (only I can't
	remember what he goes on to say about them, being a 
	vegetarian I switch my brain off).

	I guess what I am saying is that it is possible to offend 
	some of the people some of the time and all of the people 
	some of the time and maybe you shouldn't worry until you
	are offending all of the people all of the time!  And even
	then you shouldn't if you meant to! ;-)

	Cathy

    Nuances of language notwithstanding, the word liar is unambiguous and
    Nasser is under no obligation to put up with it.  I suggest that if he
    feels strongly about it, which he probably does since he took the time
    to ask us about it, that he talk to his manager.  That's what managers
    are for.

>I suggest that if he
>    feels strongly about it, which he probably does since he took the time
>    to ask us about it, that he talk to his manager.  That's what managers
>    are for.
    
    Is that what they're for? I'd wondered. :-)
    
    		Alfred

    .26, .38, .39, .40, .45 (I think I got them all):  I couldn't have said
    it better myself!  The downfall of the world is "political
    correctness"!
    
    And to all who live in America and are not born in America and who are
    attempting to make a life in America and hopefully one day be a
    citizen:  You are NOT learning ENGLISH! you ARE learning AMERICAN! I do
    not speak English, it is as foreign to me as any other language.  To
    think that my pants are called trousers and I don't wear pants (except
    in winter) a typical American would wonder what I do wear.  BTW: which
    American would be offended by being asked "How do faggots taste?" (If I
    can believe gravy covered meatballs are called that in the UK.)
    
    Anyway, /nasser: don't worry; every single human is offensive to
    someone in their own way.  there is no way we can prevent it unless we
    reach some level of collective consciousness and eliminate all form of
    humor.  I, for one, wish to remain an individual with the ability to
    laugh; however, working collectively together to accomplish a task
    doesn't sound bad.
    
    Reg.

    Nasser (and anybody else with a sense of humor)

    The book, "The Rough Tough Ploughs the Dough," is by Dr. Seuss.

    Enjoy!

    Greg

    
    Nassar,
    
    Don't give it too much of your energy, particularly if it means
    that you won't have any left to continue with some of your famous,
    as evidenced by a number of replies, notes humor.  I've at times
    laughed out loud at some of your replies.
    
    When someone asks for an explanation and then having received it,
    rejects it, then they're playing games with you over an agenda of
    their own.  Forget them.
    
    Steve
    

    If someone can't value who you are it's their problem. I for one have
    received many notes in my mail harshly responding to notes I've
    entered in here. I usually call the folks who send me notes and work it
    out and I help them understand where I am coming from or they help me
    understand what my note meant to them. Either way, I know I don't make
    everyone happy nor could I if that was my goal, but it isn't.
     
    I read the note when it first was entered and I knew it didn't say
    what Nassar meant to write. I laughed and moved on, but it reminded me 
    of a letter Digital received from an organization we donated money to.
    It read "The (organization deleted) was very pleased with your
    donation. We would like to meet with you to present your organization 
    with a plague to show our appreciation". Hmmm, I didn't think of it
    then, but after reading a certain note in here I am wondering if that
    was a typo or maybe this organization didn't think we gave them enough.
                                                      
                           John 

    Nasser's a good ole chap, means well, tries his best with a second
    language and keeps his sense of humor.  Others should try to have such
    a happy and probably productive attitude.  BUT, Nasser is probably the
    first to admit that he needs to be canonized.
    
    Let it rest and let get on with life at Digital!

    
      It appears that a small yet vocal minority has no sense of humor.
    I guess Digital doesn't discriminate against the Comedy Challenged.
    
    In any case, I find that a good sense of humor is one of the best
    resources that I have to deal with life as it exists at DEC these days.
    
    To anyone who may be offended, please try not to take yourself or any
    of our fellow noters too seriously.
    
    Russ  :-)
    

    Nasser,
    
    Just what is your original language?  I've obviously missed the note
    where this was discussed.  Anyone got pointers (seriously)?
    
    --- Gavin

    >Just what is your original language?  I've obviously missed the note
    >where this was discussed.  Anyone got pointers (seriously)?

    my mother's tongue is the Arabic language, my father's tongue is also the
    Arabic language, we learned the English language starting the 8th grade
    at school, but my English command has improved in bounds and means since 
    i joined DEC as you can offcourse see.

    /Nasser

Re .50:

Give a hoot,
read a book!
				/AHM

    
    Nasser,
    
    >at school, but my English command has improved in bounds and means since 
    >i joined DEC as you can offcourse see.
    
    Plain curious - when did you join DEC ?
    
    tvs

    >Plain curious - when did you join DEC ?

    i've been enjoying being a DECeee for 3 years and 1 month, i started
    in 8/15/89, i remember it being a bright and sunny day, and the feeling
    of being a DECeee being immersed within my sole with a new view and outlook
    at life that i cant fully come close to describe.

    thanks for asking, gave me a chance to express some of long and kept 
    emotional feelings on this very subject.

    /nasser

You, too, can approximate the spontaneous hilarity and reckless abandon
of /nasser's notes:

Just turn the brightness on your monitor low enough so that you can't see what
you've written. Then start typing! Simply be sure to do ctl-z exit <cr> cute
title <cr> y <cr> when you're done, et voila, almost as good as a genuine
/nasser. 

Don't forget to turn your brightness back up, or you may waste a DEC field
service call.

--RS, who_doesn't_have_the_<colorful_nouns_deleted>_to_actually_try_it

    ref .59 (me)

    >of being a DECeee being immersed within my sole with a new view and outlook
                                                ^^^^

    Some kind person brought this error to my attention, i meant to type
    "soul" , al'a spirit, i did not mean it as a fish or any another 
    different meanings. wanted to say this just in case others might think
    differently.

    thank you very much,
    /nasser

Being Dutch and living in France, I also sometimes find myself in these kind
of situations. People telling you that you pronounce or write something wrong.
Most of the time people take it with some humor and I don't mind. In the 
case that somebody starts insulting me or otherwise gets on my nerfs, I just
tell them that I have a hard time understanding them and if they please can
repeat it in Dutch. That works most of the time.
Just send the guy a mail back, saying that you don't know what 'liar' means
and if he can send you the answer in Arab (since that is your mother tongue if
I understand well)..

Timo
    

>      BTW: which
>    American would be offended by being asked "How do faggots taste?" (If I
>    can believe gravy covered meatballs are called that in the UK.)
 
	faggots are balls of chopped and seasoned liver, usualy with gravy,
	but not always.

	meatballs are completely different - they're not liver for a start.

	and Haggis........................I won't put you off!!!!

	Heather

    re: -1
    
    Heather,
    
    	Haggis is great!  Especially with a great single malt Scotch
    poured over it.  It's worth a trip to Ayr.
    
    Steve D

    re -1
    I thought faggots were coals from a hot fire? Particularly in the U.K.
    No?
    

    re .65
    
    I wouldn't spoil the Scotch by pouring it over the Haggis, just put it
    straight into the tummy, and while we are at it, lets skip the Haggis.
    
    Ah, a little Glenlivet or Laphroig
    
    Larry
    

        Heather, ol' pal, I know it's been a while since we last sank a
        few pints but  this  implied  haggis-bashing will have to stop.
        It's no good, you  know  - with a good Scots name like Heather,
        even if you are an apprentice Janner, you should know better!
        
        Andy ;*> (with a tilt in the kilt)
        

	Okay, I'll leave the Haggis and malt for you, 


	if you leave the pasties and cider for me


	Heather
	       

    re .69
    
    >> if you leave the pasties and cider for me
    
    Ummm, watch it. "Pasties" means something entirely different in the US.
    
    Bob.
    

    
    please, please be careful of your word usage and selection in this
    this notes file, this is becoming an R rated notes file, it used to be 
    PG not too long ago.

    thank you for corporations,
    /nasser

    

Not a reprimand from me.

I forgot to put a "smiley" on my reply in .70

I got a chuckle out of the "pasties and cider" combination.....

Bob.

    What's so funny about a meat pie?
    
    Up in the UP of Michigan, that's what a pasty is.  Anybody who thinks
    different is a wrong-thinker!
    
    :-)
    
    Dick

re .73

Things must be pretty dull in the UP of Michigan...

Where I grew up in Texas, pasties are significantly different.

Bob. ;^)

    pasties in MD are different too!

There's a long "a" in the naughty pasties, and a short "a" in the kind
that they pack for lunch in the UP.

Ah, but you can't hear the short/long "a" in a written word....

I suppose I immediately associated it with the one that I was most
familiar with.

Bob.

	Pasties and cider are traditional fare in Devon and Cornwall.

	And I'm a Devon Dumpling, so couldn't refuse it!

	Today pasties are made from meat, potato, onion and sweede with 
	seasoning in a pastry case.

	Cider is made from apples and is alchoholic - scrumpy is better but 
	rougher and stronger.

	Pasties were made with a flour and pastry dough to cover meat and apples
	so they would be protected when down the tin or arsenic mines, of which
	there were many in Devon and Cornwall

	Heather

    pasties are made with sweede's? I'm part swede and have never been
    asked to roll around the dough (pastry case?).  8^)
    

English "swede" = American "rutabaga"

>English "swede" = American "rutabaga" 

or turnip.

    Bzzzzzt. Wrong.

    Yep, in England, swede and turnip are different vegetables.
    
    Laurie.

    Actually they're different the world over.
    
    Even in Bruxelles, eh, Laurie?

I may be wrong but aren't turnips swedes in Scotland, when I've had neeps there -
they tasted like swede to me.

Tony

ps. why are we discussing this?

	Actually,

	a swede is a large yellow type of turnip

	So, the little white things can be called turnips
	    the large yellow things can be called swedes or turnips.


	They happen to be called turnips in Devon as well as Scotland, but I 
	thought I'd call them swedes to aliviate confusion !!!!!!!!!!


	Heather

    In Norhern Ireland, they only have turnips, which are the large yellow
    ones, not the small white ones. Could it be that (some of) the English
    have got it wrong?
    
    Confused,
    Dave
    

Why can't we talk about slide rules and newspaper vending machines like in
other notes?

Paul

    RE: .89
    
    >Why can't we talk about slide rules and newspaper vending machines like
    >in other notes?
    
    Yeh, this conference isn't for vegetables.
    

    
    ref.   .88
    >> Could it be that (some of) the English have got it wrong?
    
     No, they just do not get it at all......!!!

    The definitive answer.
    
    Swede, Swedish Turnip, brassica rutabaga
    Turnip, biennial, brassica rapa.
    
    Cap'n Grammar.

    Heather,
    
    I *knew* whereof you spoke, but although rutabagas were common fare
    when growing up, my Mom/Grandmother didn't put them in pasties;
    soup yes, pasties no.
    
    Pasties were very popular amongst the Welsh (still are when we can
    get them).  According to my Dad they were popular because the meat,
    onions & potatoes encased in a folded crust fit nicely in the lunch
    pails of the miners.
    
    Karen
    
    PS:  McAfoos......your field circus heritage is showing :-)
    
    

    But, how does one use a turnip? I've seen 'em in stores, but don't know
    what to do with them.
    
    John D.
    
    

    Read the documentation...
    

>     <<< Note 2124.94 by RAYBOK::DAMIANO "Chopper Chicks In Zombie Town" >>>
>                        -< A first class rat hole.... >-

>    But, how does one use a turnip? I've seen 'em in stores, but don't know
>    what to do with them.
 
Cook as if it's a swede and eat with haggis 'n' tatties.
Get a decent whisky to drink with it too !

Craig

    Why spoil the taste of scotch?

    What the English call 'spring onions' the Irish and (I think) Americans
    call 'scallions'.
    
    Dave

    The worst confusion is:

    	What the English call Chicory the Americans call Endive

    	What the English call Endive the Americans call Chicory.

    
    Re: how to use a turnip.
    
    Peel it; boil it; and serve mashed by itself or mashed together with
    potato.  A turnip is also a MUST in a New England boiled dinner:
    corned beef or shoulder, cabbage, potato, carrots, turnip, and onions
    boiled together with a pint of dark beer added.  Yum!
    
    Steve
    

>Peel it; boil it; and serve mashed by itself ...
Gak!
Peel it, slice it and eat it. It tasts much better raw.

How did we get to food in DIGITAL, anyway?

    
    Re:
    
    > It tasts much better raw.
    
    Hmm?  Wouldn't have thought so, but I'll give it a try.
    
    Steve
    

    re .101
    
>How did we get to food in DIGITAL, anyway?
    
    It sure didn't come in via the cafeterias.

    O.K. folks.  Take the food to the cafeteria, (if your site has one) and
    keep the discussion here to the topic.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL

    If anyone has something intelligent to say about the subject of this
    topic, send mail to one of the moderators.
    
    Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL