T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
1944.1 | | TEXAS1::SOBECKY | It's all ones and zeros | Tue Jun 16 1992 15:51 | 4 |
|
Quite a generous package, I'd say. One question..what did you
mean, 60% to 80% of your base pay if you relocate to one of the
remote sites? Are those people being asked to take a pay cut?
|
1944.2 | So, basically yes. | BALZAC::BULMER | Pretend that we're dead | Tue Jun 16 1992 15:55 | 8 |
|
Basically, yes.
In theory, there's some way to earn a "commission" of up to
(read maximum) 100% of your original salary. However, since many
of the reclassified people weren't sales but techies, it,I just wasn't
to obvious how this would happen.
|
1944.4 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Ren, what's `TFSO' mean ? | Tue Jun 16 1992 17:46 | 9 |
| I don't know about that ... based on .0, I'd bring home 22 weeks.
Based on the last TFSO package that floated through GSO, I'd bank 33
weeks ...
Who knows, the next "package" may consist of a stack of boxes for you
to pack your office in ... oh yeah, and a t-shirt of some kind.
Jerry
|
1944.5 | Not by my math.. | TEXAS1::SOBECKY | It's all ones and zeros | Tue Jun 16 1992 23:13 | 10 |
|
re .4
You must be a relative newcomer..based on .0's formula, I'd
take home 72 weeks pay plus an extra $30K+...that is more
generous than the current package being offered in the states,
if my math is correct...
|
1944.6 | Age Discrimination | BSS::C_BOUTCHER | | Wed Jun 17 1992 03:41 | 3 |
| BUT, it does discriminate against those that are under 40 years of age.
I have been with DEC for 15 years and am only 34. Why should those
under 40 that have worked the same number of years walk away with less?
|
1944.7 | | PRSSOS::MAILLARD | Denis MAILLARD | Wed Jun 17 1992 07:52 | 14 |
| Re .6: The reason for the extra money for people over 40 is simply that
it is much more difficult to get a new job when you're over 40 (all
other aspects being the same).
One detail: on June 30th 1992, about 3/5 (I think) of the layoffs are
taking place, the rest will take place (with the same benefits) at some
time between now and June 30th 1993, which is the end of the social
plan that DEC France negotiated with the French labor authorities.
Until that date it will be extremely difficult for DEC France to layoff
more people, as it would mean having a new layoff plan agreed on by the
French labor authorities (which are not very keen on the idea). After
that date, if the situation still requires it, other layoffs would be
easier to be accepted, but it is also very doubtfull that these new
layoffs would go with a package as substantial as the present one.
Denis.
|
1944.8 | A vision for 1995 | DCC::HAGARTY | Essen, Trinken und Shaggen... | Wed Jun 17 1992 08:17 | 34 |
1944.9 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Bitte ein Bit? Bitte 64 Bit!! | Wed Jun 17 1992 08:35 | 16 |
1944.10 | ? | DCC::HAGARTY | Essen, Trinken und Shaggen... | Wed Jun 17 1992 08:43 | 3 |
1944.11 | We're DEF and you're DEC | BALZAC::BULMER | Pretend that we're dead | Wed Jun 17 1992 11:35 | 71 |
|
RE: All replies
Please remember that Digital Equipment Corporation and Digital
Equipment (fill in your favorite European country) are completely
different from one another. We do not belong to the "C" in DEC: we
are not part of the Corporation. The strategies, regulations, and
official policies in Digital Equipment France (DEF) are sometimes
shockingly different from DEC. They are sometimes shockingly different
from the rules of Digital Equipment Europe (DEE) a completely separate
company who happens to have people who sit right next to me. We are
_barely_ part of Digital. We are more like a souped-up Radio Shack.
(Denis, feel free to contradict me...I respect your opinion more than my
own sometimes.)
Point by point:
RE: .3 (the difference in U.S. packages vs French packages.)
Though many French people won't believe this, I did my research into
the official "layoff package" and it only guarantees the 3-month
"warning period" plus something like 12% of one year's salary. What
really has the power in Europe are the negotiating power of each
company's "union". Unlike, for example, the UAW, who has members in
Ford, Chrysler, etc. plants, french laws require each company to have
its own labor-representing union that negotiates things like salary changes
layoffs, etc. The union (the CE) is made up of regular DEF employees
voted in by colleagues. In France they have strong influencing powers
but no veto power. Our head boss, Michel Ferreboeuf, must present all
plans before them. I believe it was the union (CE) who "won" the
generous package for us.
I understand Germany's "unions", are much much stronger and can
completely veto a head honcho's plans.
RE: .6 ( Why discriminate against those under 40?)
As Denis said, after 40 (and this is not true in the U.S. nearly as
much) it is much more difficult to get a job. I was STUNNED the first
time I looked in Le Monde's help technical help wanted section as
say many "Wanted: Young Software Engineer. Must be between the age
of 25-30." I even think I recall a Digital in Annecy advertising like
that. However, I simultaneously had trouble defending Eurodisney
against outraged French people furious about rigid hiring requirements
(no tatoos, no dyed hair, no facial hair) AND the special
deal Eurodisney cut with the French labor force to pay all its
employees (also known as "actors", which I think is important here)
_less_ than legal minimum wage.
RE: .8 (DEC is trying to replace all its technical people with
lower cost people from the outside.)
DEF makes no secret of this. They announced the replacement of all the
terminal repairers, all the small-systems hardware support guys with outside
contractors. Why? Because DEx people cost more per person than
contractors. The thing that puzzles me is that all the contractors I
work with receive _much_ higher salaries than I do. I find this to
mean that there's too much overhead per employee at DEC.
BTW, we bought Philips out, moved a bunch of their folks here and just
canned them.
RE: .9 (German law explicitly forbids using performance as a criterion
for layoffs)
This makes me want to shout "That's horrible", except that I can't
resolve that fact with the fact that the Germans still manage to
be the most productive, highest-quality folks in Europe.
Just how do they do that (plus they have more vacation than everyone
else...incredible!)
|
1944.12 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Ren, what's `TFSO' mean ? | Wed Jun 17 1992 12:16 | 5 |
| I re_read the bsase note ... I transposed 1 MONTH's salary for every
year with 1 WEEK's salary ... I attacked the calculator again, and YES,
this is a VERY good package ... 8^)
Jerry
|
1944.13 | | PLAYER::BROWNL | Clapton; Gent; 16.06.92; KinBrill! | Wed Jun 17 1992 12:30 | 14 |
| RE: .8
I don't think you're too far off the mark here. In the June 92
Recruitment Monitor (comes free with Computing, a UK magazine), there
is much discussion on this very subject. In fact, DECexecutive,
currently being piloted in the UK, is an initiative by DEC to address
this very need in other comapnies in the UK. Looking around me, I see
more contractors being used than ever before (proportionately at
least), right across Europe. Some contractors have been with DEC a long
time, and have worked in several countries, on several sites. There
seems to be more evidence of a decision to use contrators on more than
a long-term basis. Not that I'm complaining of course, I'm one of them.
Laurie.
|
1944.14 | | SOS6::MAILLARD | Denis MAILLARD | Wed Jun 17 1992 13:11 | 22 |
1944.15 | | DCC::HAGARTY | Essen, Trinken und Shaggen... | Wed Jun 17 1992 13:27 | 4 |
1944.16 | DEC U.S. vs DEF/DEE | UNYEM::HALLC | | Wed Jun 17 1992 20:26 | 9 |
| I found this note file very interesting. I would like to know
what kind of package you have heard that the U.S. DEC employees
are going to get hit with starting June 29th? This will be our
third layoff in a year. We had a pretty good package offered
for the SERP program, early retirement but no one seems to know
what will be offered this next go around.
Can anyone help?
|
1944.17 | | CVG::THOMPSON | Radical Centralist | Wed Jun 17 1992 20:35 | 20 |
| Typically what happens in this company is that lots of ideas are
discussed, for example what the package will be, before anything is
decided. Often some of the ideas "get out" before a some option is
picked. Sometimes the press gets a hold of it; sometimes DECcies do.
However, just because an idea gets out doesn't mean it's been approved.
Also typically, those whose job it is to announce these things hear
a bunch of these ideas. News releases, LIVEWIRE and MGMT MEMO articles,
etc are prepared for (sometimes) several of the options. None of this
means they'll happen. Once an option is picked the news usually goes
pretty fast. You can count on it showing up in LIVEWIRE for example.
But until the option gets final approval KO himself can't tell you
what it's going to be. Asking in Notes seems like one of the silliest
things to do. If there was an option that was actually going to happen
(ie. had final approval) it would probably be posted already and you'd
get 2-4 copies of it by mail. (And two weeks later your boss would send
it. :-) )
Alfred
|
1944.19 | | NEWVAX::PAVLICEK | Zot, the Ethical Hacker | Thu Jun 18 1992 16:44 | 6 |
| re: "See 1904.110"
But make sure you read another reply or two to find out that the
memo is from 1991 or so.
-- Russ
|
1944.20 | Sweden too.... | SWETSC::WESTERBACK | Mimsy were the borogroves | Thu Jun 18 1992 20:17 | 10 |
| Since we're talking Europe here, Digital Sweden laid off ~150 of a
total of ~950, that would be like 16%, on June 1.
Severance pay is four months salary plus one extra month for every
year you've been employed in DEC. I think if you want to, you can work
the four month period of notice, but if you want you can also leave
earlier. But your manager can demand that you work one month to get the
full severance pay.
Hans
|
1944.21 | | BHAJEE::JAERVINEN | Bitte ein Bit? Bitte 64 Bit!! | Mon Jun 22 1992 08:25 | 18 |
1944.22 | Finland too ... | KIPPIS::LOD | Just Do It ...! | Tue Jun 23 1992 09:40 | 17 |
|
Finland has 'voluntarily' cut its work force of ~450 by 25-40 persons,
exact number not known since all have not been accepted/decided yet.
The offer was public to all DEC Finland employess, with employers
option to veto. Final offer date was June 11.
Severance pay was as follows:
0 - 9 years with Digital 9 months salary
9 - 12 years with Digital 10 months salary
12 - 15 years with Digital 11 months salary
over 15 years with Digital 12 months salary
* This information is marked INTERNAL USE ONLY in Finland VTX and *
* should be treated accordingly *
- tomi
|
1944.23 | Bye | DCC::HAGARTY | Essen, Trinken und Shaggen... | Tue Jun 30 1992 10:27 | 7 |
1944.24 | | VICE::BROWN | | Tue Jun 30 1992 14:39 | 5 |
| Enjoyed your notes.
Good bye & we wish you well.
dave
|
1944.25 | Life after DEC | FIELD::LOUGHLINI | William the Complacent | Tue Jun 30 1992 14:51 | 10 |
| To Mr Hagarty and 508 other German employees :-
Before you leave, send me a mail with your address/home phone if you
are looking for a business in your life after_Digital.
Best wishes for the future.
Ian Loughlin
|
1944.26 | Sorry to see you leave us, Dennis. I guess as of today ... | YUPPIE::COLE | Neck-deep in the Big Muddy, ... | Tue Jun 30 1992 15:46 | 4 |
1944.27 | | CHEFS::HEELAN | | Tue Jun 30 1992 20:10 | 4 |
| All the best Dan....
John
|
1944.28 | Its allmost over over there! | SWAM1::TRENT_JO | | Mon Jul 06 1992 17:01 | 2 |
| To all our ex European co-workers. Good luck, your the lucky ones!! No
word over here in the old USA yet!
|