Conference 7.286::digital

    Actually, it goes to re-imburse Digital for time spent writing
    the basenote (and this one).	:-)

    
    i think most of food related activities in DEC facilities is handled
    by independent contarctors, and sort of independent from DEC itself.
    
    iam sure i will corected if the above is not true. but i think iam
    right, i buy the cookee from LKG cafteria for less than the cookee from 
    ZKO cafteria, they are close size to each others too, and taste almost the 
    same, but for some reasons cookees at ZKO are really more expensive.
    
    it is better if you buy cooffe from a coffee station than from the 
    cafteria, it cost less that way, we have coffee stations here where
    it cost 25 cents and some cost 15 cents , but the cafteria coffees cost
    more than that. how much does coffee at your coffee stations costs in
    NY ? is the same as here ? 
    
    byu,
    /nasser

re: .0

Why not ask the vendor?

(I didn't know we let contracts to "name-brands". That's kind of interesting.
 I'll take a dozen French crullers to go! :^)

-Jack

    We have Legal Seafood chowdah here at LJO on Wednesdays and Fridays.
    
    Mark.

    Just remember, when you pay extra, you're paying for "atmosphere" 
    :-)!!
    
    Lynn

    
    It is called FREE ENTERPRISE, you charge what the market will pay,
    for your product; don't get enough business then you lower the 
    cost.

    So what exactly is the point of the base note?  If you think you are
    being charged more than you would outside - buy your coffee outside.
    
    Just having a cafeteria is a luxury that many DEC sites don't have -
    never mind Dunkin Donuts, Legal Seafoods, and the rest.   
    
    JD

    It was in the past, and could still be for all I know, that Digital
    subsidized the cost of the cafeteria and vending machines.  The
    percent of that subsidy would vary from site to site and
    organization to organization, which accounts for why soda is 60 cents
    some places and 65 in others.

NYC sales tax is 8.25%.

       Uno's pizza is coming to LTN. I talked to the cafe. manager. It'll
    be frozen when he gets it!
                                   Denny

    Uno's is also coming to BXB1
    
    -Alkesh

    how come you all getting uno's and ZKO is not? 
    i like uno too.
    /naser

    Hey, this is a FUN note! What's made available at a site is a small
    thing, but overall morale and espirit are often directly related to
    many such small things. I can envision such things as  "Pro Anchovies" 
    petitions wherever there are pizza concession, and everybody can have
    fun with these kinds of things.
    
    Botton line is there's a lot of various serious things happening that
    deserve serious thought, consideration, and discussion. So we need
    something not so serious that people can jump into and relieve the
    stresses and tensions that build up.
    
    So tell me: do these pizza concessionaires offer anchovies already, 
    or do we have to start a petition drive???? 
    
    Ciao,  Fred  :^)
    
    

    .12  
    
    Could it be because there is an UNO's restaurant down the street?
    
    .14 
    
    We are catered by CANTEEN.  But there was pizza on the menu today -
    looked pretty good (if you like pizza which I don't)....
    
    -sandy
    

       MRO has Legal Chowdah and they're Tobins.
                                      Denny

    Re .recent
    
    The proximity of a Uno's has nothing to do with getting Pizza in the
    LTN/BXB cafeterias. They are probably getting them from from the same
    warehouse (in chicago, no doubt), that many local supermarkets do.
    These sources seem to be cheaper than buying direct from Uno's anyway.
    
    Legal's Chowders are available because Legal's do a special deal on
    bulk chowder. (ring their 800 number and ask for a quote on a 55 gallon
    drum of chowda :-) )
    
    The Dunkin Donuts deal is probably the same that many 7-11's and the
    like do with them. Nothing more than a display case, that they stock
    every morning. I have a feeling that the morning donuts in several
    cafeterias are probably sources from DD's, they just don't come with
    the fancy packaging (Which of course, they need for all of the
    marketing folks over at MRO1 to make them feel warm and fuzzy about
    buying the right donuts...)
    
    Peter Q (currently on assignment from ZKO down to LTN2, and very
    seriously considering driving back across the border for lunch).
    

       As I understand it Tobin bought the franchise for the DD in MRO1.
                                           Denny

  How does the (frozen and reheated) Uno's pizza served at BXB/LTN compare with
what is served at Uno's?
  Here at LKG we have Papa Gino's pizza and Legal chowder. 
  If Tobins' wants to serve Dunkin Donuts donuts, fine. But I don't understand
the coffee deal. How much did coffee cost at MRO1 before Dunkin Donuts got the
contract? Does the staff get D.D. coffee and brew it themselves, or does D.D.
ship in coffee already brewed? Were there complaints about the coffee that
Tobin's served at MRO1 before D.D. got the contract?

    The UNo's at LTN/BXB hasn't arrived yet. It's a watch this space....
    
    
    q
    

       The DD at MRO1 is a small franchise store. They brew DD coffee
    right there. Tobin still sells their own also, at about $.20 a cup
    (16oz) cheaper.
                                     Denny

    
    it is still free enterprise

           Uno pizza's here at NIO, too.... next week.
           
           Steve

    re: .0 and .19
    My initial complaint was that I could purchase a cup of coffee from
    a DD francise located in one of the most expensive cities in the 
    world (new York at Madison square garden) cheaper than I could buy
    the same coffee as a capitivated audience to Tobin corp. I know I can
    buy Tobin's standard coffee for .20 less.  But I can't understand
    why I have to pay more for their DD coffee in MRO than I do in New York.
    
    sounds like they are taking advantage of Digital employees
    
    Pat

    
.24>  sounds like they are taking advantage of Digital employees
    
    that situation predates the DD franchise by a fair number of years
    

    
    it is still called FREE ENTERPRISE, don't like it don't pay it and
    the price will go down, remember a water fall starts with just one
    drop of water, so one person can make a difference in the price of
    a cup of coffee, it just takes a lot of 1's to get the message across
    sometimes

    i agree with .26 too, what every one can do to remedy this problem is to
    buy a thermos (that thing that keeps tea and coffee hot for a day)
    and bring your coffe or tea with you in the morning to work.
    i did this once and worked really well, i stopped doing it though because
    i had to get up more early to boil water and my coffee, and i dont
    have that mr coffee thing, so now i am back to buy coffee at work.
    
    i thing if we become more imaganitives like i did in the example
    outlined above we all can solve this coffee problem, we know we need 
    coffee to function in our work.
    
    there is also another solution to this if i may suggest it, that may be
    sheeper too, what you do is buy those tablets that have concetrated caffine
    squezzed in them, i read on the box that one tablet is like two 12oz
    coffee mugs, and the whole box will last you a week or so, and it comes
    out sheeper than buying coffee by the mug, iam sure. and one good
    thing about this solution too is that you can have you cafeeine with
    no suger this way, because there is nothing to stear the coffee with
    offcourse, also this way you coffee never get cold, and also you dont
    have to warry about laundying your coffee cup every moring and all that
    mess. i think this solution is clean, easy, conveneint, and sheep, i
    wander why not many peoples do it.
    
    another solution is not to drink decavinated coffee, and just drink the
    caffinated one, this way you get your daily quota of caffine
    but you buy less coffee mugs than
    if you had bought the decafiniated coffee. this way you save mony and
    still get the same caffine amount. this is why i could never figure
    out why some strange peoples buy decafinated coffee? they pay the
    same price as i do, but they are getting less caffine? 
    
    i can provide more such ideas about this suitations if iam asked for.
    
    thank you,
    regards
    /naser

>                     <<< Note 1806.26 by MEMIT::CANSLER >>>

>    it is still called FREE ENTERPRISE, don't like it don't pay it and
>    the price will go down, remember a water fall starts with just one

I was in Brussels recently - the coffee is free there, like it is in
many continental sites. Perhaps Digital there realises that free
coffee makes for more productive employees? In Newbury, where I am
based, it isn't free -  but 14p for fresh filter coffee is nothing to
complain about.

They also have beer and wine in canteens on the continent - truly
an enlightened attitude.

Craig

    re .24
    
    Bear in Mind, that a DD Franchise in NYC probably has a significantly
    higher turnover, and makes its money on volume...  Not the case in a
    cafeteria.
    
    q
    

        Re: .27

>    there is also another solution to this if i may suggest it, that may be
>    sheeper too, what you do is buy those tablets that have concetrated caffine
>    squezzed in them, ...  [Advantages omitted.  B.J.]
>    i think this solution is clean, easy, conveneint, and sheep, i
>    wander why not many peoples do it.

        I suspect that part of the reason is that some coffee drinkers
        don't know, or don't want to admit, that they are drug addicts. 
        Taking a pill for  your caffeine just makes the addiction too
        obvious, especially in this time of `Just Say No' propaganda.

        This is not to say that all coffee drinkers are caffeine addicts,
        but millions are.

        					B.J.

    
    but B.J. i dont think it fair to call coffee lovers a drug addicts,
    i mean the word drug addict itself is used to describe bad drugs only, and
    coffee is not like that, it is not bad or anything like cokains and
    all the other bad ones.
    
    i drink coffee only at work, i can go for ever without
    consuming caffine if iam not near the work place, like vacations , but 
    once i come to work and enter my cube, suddenly i want caffine? why is that?
    
    sometimes even when i see the building i work at , i
    start wanting coffee? strange, is other listneners feel the same way
    too?
    
    is it maybe a subconsiuose thing that the brain tells us to
    do? 
    
    may be the brain associates your cube with stress and automaticlly
    asks for coffee to release the stress? may be this is i notice peoples who
    work in cubes with flowers and green plantes in them seem to drink less
    coffee than those with cubes that is dull and have no flowers and green
    plants in them like mine?
    
    i think i might have hit on something big here.
    
    i think that this is a very intersting and important topic, because
    coffee is an integral part of working life . 
    
    ..off to make another mug of strong coffee so that i can think better..
    
    /naser

    mr. abbassi, 'drug addict' also describes those who become addicted to
    medically-prescribed drugs.  'drug addiction' includes an addiction to
    any drug.  alcohol, the caffeine in coffee, and the nicotine in
    cigarettes are drugs as much as are cocaine and heroin.  there are
    differences, of course, such as the medical effects and the legal
    consequences if found out.

    remember the hoary old cliche of the drug addict that he can quit
    whenever he wants to.	:-)

    
    but i dont understand, there are a lot of poples who cant go without
    water , does this means they are addicted to water? the body asks
    for water, not me, so i must have it, this is the same description
    of a coffee lover too. so why do we desriminate against coffee and
    not water?
    
    i think my arguments above is very strong. i dont see any weak point
    on it. this means if you drink coffee you are not addicted to it, in
    as mcuh as if you are drink water you are not addicted to water.
    
    ..i think i should become a politicians, i keep comming with strong
    arguments like the above, good for debates and stuff like that..
    
    thank you,
    /nasser
    

Water is needed by all human beings and is not a drug.  Caffeine is a drug. 
Whether a particular drug is legal or not is irrelevant.

I hear many coffee drinkers say that they can't start their day without coffee. 
That sounds like an addiction to me, but I'm sure not all coffee drinkers are
addicted.

There also seems to be quite a ritual around coffee drinking that amuse those of
us who don't drink it.

Paul, who can't start his day without a nice cold glass of grapefruit juice

    your argument is indeed amuzing, as i'm sure you intended it to be, but
    for the sake of those poples who might be interested in the different
    kinds of drugs, i'll give the list from the american red cross:
    
    o  cannabis
    o  depressants (including alcohol)
    o  hallucinogens
    o  inhalants
    o  narcotics
    0  stimulants  (including cocaine and caffeine)
    o  tranquilizers
    
    the red cross defines 'drug dependence' as:
    
    	"... the interaction between the drug and the body when the
    	interaction involves an effect on the central nervous system.
    	It is characterized by a behavioral response that always
    	includes a compulsive desire to continue taking the drug,
    	either to experience its effects or to avoid the discomfort
    	of its absence.  Dependence always involves psychic craving
    	and sometimes involves physical, organic disturbance (physical
    	dependence)."

    
    DEC have a program for drug addicted employees i assumes? right?
    in this case can some one who is coffee addicted apply to enter the 
    program too? since it is according to red xross an addict drug?
    
    by the way, is an employee still get paid their salary while they
    are in drug dehabilitation program untill they are cured? 
    
    but what i dont understand why cannabis poeples are cosidered drug addics?
    
    i mean it is very terrible thing but i dont cosider it an addict?
    a while i read that some tribes in the forrests of Africa still practice 
    such bizzar pratices on their own peoples during their ritual ceromonies, 
    and some in the amazon forrests too. 
    
    i hear water is boiling, got to go and make more coffee .
    
    thank you for this important list about the drugs, it is very intersting.
    /nasser

    all of dec is a dehabilitation program

    re  .36
    
    Nassar, your arguments don't seem to hold much water, so to speak. On
    one hand, you are saying that coffee drinking should be treated as an
    addiction, even though it is an acceptable social behaviour in this
    society, yet on the other hand you are condoning the use of Cannabis
    because, as you put it, it is used by tribes in the forests of africa
    and the amazon as part of their rituals. Firstly, use of Cannabis for
    ritual purposes doesn't exist in either area. Amazon indians, may chew
    coca leaves, but certainly not as part of any special rituals, and as
    for tribes in Africa, I don't recall any using Cannabis, they mostly
    use fermented fruits etc. The only ethnic groups that use Cannabis in
    rituals are the Rastafarians of the Carribean, and the Hippies of the
    U.S. West coast. :-)
    
    Coffee is acceptable because it is only a mild stimulant, unlike
    massive stimulants like cocaine, or narcotics which significantly
    impair ones ability to be part of normal society.
    
    Now, can you take this discussion to one of the existing drug related
    notes (716 or 1282) and leave this note to talk about the price of
    coffee, and related foodstuffs.
    
    q
    

    re: last few^2
    
    First, if anyone tries to get me to stop drinking coffee, I'll send
    invitations to their funeral!  :)  side-tracking, Mr. N.A. (or is it
    n.a.?)  brings up an interesting point on coffee.  During the week, the
    only thing I think of as I enter the building is where my coffee cup
    may be, and (hopefully) if the coffee is ready.  On weekends, for the
    most part I don't even think about drinking coffee, even though I have
    2-3 lbs. of gourmet coffee in the fridge.
    
    As for pricing of coffee, if the prices go up in our coffee club, I'll
    bitch.  I'll still pay, but I'll bitch.
    
    --- Gavin

    
    Re: .36  nasser
    
    No, No, No.... not cannibals ... cannibis! It's a plant that 
    when you.....            ---           --
    
    		oh... never mind.
    
    LaDonna 

    wow - that makes me the caffeine "dealer" in my corner.  Do i get to
    appear on "Maynard Vice" ??
    
    bob

    
    I thought this note was about money addiction. subtitled 
    						(or is the coffee to much).

    RE: the last several...
    
    Once again, Mr. Abassi is funnin' with you people, and so many
    get worked up over it!  I'm sure he's probably rolling on his
    office floor right about now.
    
    Rick

    re: .43
    
>    Once again, Mr. Abassi is funnin' with you people, and so many
>    get worked up over it!  I'm sure he's probably rolling on his
>    office floor right about now.
    
    ...and I find that at the least, pitiful, and at the worst, cruelly
    insensitive.
    
    Back when I was a child, I didn't find Bill Dana's Jose Jiminez
    character very funny.  Even then, it seemed to me that playing an
    ignorant stereotype was too easy and cheap a shot at humor for my
    taste.  
    
    Abassi's luring trusting people into bogus conversations and then
    probably laughing while they waste their time attempting to honestly
    help his projected false persona is starting to get on my nerves.  
    
    I sure as hell won't enter a dialogue or answer what appears to be a
    serious question asked by Abassi.  Why would anyone waste their time on
    what has great potential of being a practical joke on them?
    
    Even my six year old konws that crying "Wolf!" is not only often
    dangerous, but always impolite.  
    
    -joe tomkowitz

    if i knew for sure that mr abassis ee cummings-style noting was part of
    his humor, then i wouldnt mind, but i dont know that, and therefore
    replies such as this have a considerble risk of not being pc.

    
    re .45:
    
    ...which is not to say that replies such as .44 do not ring strongly of
    truth and sensibility.
    

re: .31, .33, .36
    
    
wal, nasel (ah hopes yew dont mind if'n ah yewses yor 1st name), yew shoor
r puttin' won over on them fokes, oh that is sum sens of humidor yew got
ther, boy, and keep up th good werk, cuz we needs the liks of yew to keep us
laffin threw these her hard timz.  hoot, ah cn out-msspel 'n 
out-ungrammertyz yew annie time, and ah was edjikated in the yew 
ess and aaa.

ps: i admits yew mite git a ty by tryyng to out-bad sintax to me, i tink.

Bret Harte
    

    this open letter is to Mr Joet, but other lisneters can listen if they
    want too, since itlains some of my deeper thought on the subject.
    
    ref .44
    
    Mr Joet, i dont agree with you, as i explained to you in the mail i send
    you yesterday trying to resolve this big conflict like two gentle mens
    i did not know that there is a plant
    called cannbilis ! honest i did not know!, if a see a cannilis plant today
    i would not know iis a cannbilis !, i thought it what peoples in jungles 
    do, so why blast me on the air like you did for that?, and in front of
    the hunder of thousands of frindly lisnteners too !
    
    if you dont agree with my writings and publications, please write to
    me directly, and i'll be more than happy to explain to you.
    
    what you said is not very nice. my feelings got a little hurt too.
    espcialy since i did not say anything not nice about you.
        
    iam a very sentivite person, and iam not a crul at all, one time i saw a cat
    in front on my building, she seemed very hungery, i go to shop just
    for here, buy milk and come back and give it to it. is this the act of
    an insentivive person? i ask you, you tell me?.
    
    i also, like you , have so many experiences from childhood i can keep
    talking about,till the cows come home, but iam not sure the lisnters want
    to or not? 
    
    and also iam not ignorant, please ! i bet i can beat you in 
    chess with my eys closed too ! if you want more proofs that iam not
    ignorant, i can look more, give some time please. 
    
    and i no luring anyone ! what you talk about? i think you are
    a little too seriuos my friend, but that is ok, you probably had
    a hard day yesterday, and were just abset, i understand, i really
    do, we all have these hard days once in a whiles.
    
    so in the bottom line, if you dont like my writings, please hit the
    next unseen key, but i'd rather offcourse you enjoy my writings and deep
    thought instead, but i guess i'll always have peoples who disagree with
    my philosphy in life. 
    
    thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to outline my
    poistion on this subject.
    /naser
    

    Naser,
    
    	Star:: has the spell checker installed. Before you finish a note,
    hit DO, spell, and follow the instructions. Your rambling trains of
    discussion irk me, your inconclusive arguments amuse me, but your
    atrocious spelling annoys me...
    
    q
    :-)
    

    q,
    i try to put my thoughts in theri original form, and that is how they
    come out, sorry that my spellings irks you, i did not know of a rule
    that says i should spelled cheked befor i write here.
    but thanks again for your sinsere suggestions.
    regards,
    /nasser

    There is no rule, it's simply a matter of common courtesy to one's
    fellow employees.
    
    And, in your case, where your last reply, had 6 spelling mistakes in 4
    lines of text, it is also common sense. 
    
    Spell checking your notes, will do no damage to your originality, but
    it will certain assist in the credibility of your notes as viewed by
    other noters.
    
    q
    

    q,
    this subject is deeper than that, i really beleives that spell checkers
    are like calculators and math package, using them at the wrong
    stage can be bad to you.
    
    example in points:
    i seen school kids who are so used to calculators and computer math 
    packages so that they cant divide two numbers or factor a low order 
    polynomial and other such basic things , without such a device , they 
    dont know how , because they just have these things do it for them, and 
    they never learn the basics.
    
    same with spell checkers, if you just use them to correct misspelled
    words , how will you ever learn yourself? there will be no need
    for person to learn, since they say , just run it through spell checkers
    and it will do it for me.
    
    but if you first write it without spell checkers, untill you are very good 
    *without* spell checkers , you can then use the spell
    checker, knowing then that you know how to spell, but use spell checkers
    to speed things for you.
    
    offcourse, i use spell checkers in all official documents, and design
    papers and documentations and others such related materials.
    
    thank you , i hope i dont have many bad spellings in this one too.
    /nasser

    >this subject is deeper than that, i really beleives that spell checkers
    >are like calculators and math package, using them at the wrong
    >stage can be bad to you.
    
    I think "Bad for you" is a bit much. The comparision between a spell
    checking program and a calculator is a little inaccurate. Using a
    calculator can obviate the need for understanding the underlying
    mathematical principles, but writing a document is far different to
    making a calculation. If you use your head and/or a pen/paper to make a
    calculation, and you are incorrect, then the answer is wrong. However,
    not using a spell checker/grammar checker/ dictionary/ thesaurus etc,
    you can still labor under the misconception that what you are saying is
    correct, literate, and understandable by those people that you are
    trying to communicate with.  The degrees of freedom with regard to
    accruracy in written or spoken word, are far greater than that required
    of mathematical representation.
    
    q

    God help the code.

    Re: .53
    
    It appears that .53 should have used the spell checker for the sake of
    "accruracy".  But no worries, mate.  i dont tink i will be offended.
    
    :-)

              ...Howzabout taking it to THEBAY::JoyOfLex?   :-)  Dan

  Re .52 (Nasser)

> this subject is deeper than that, i really beleives that spell checkers 
> are like calculators and math package, using them at the wrong          
> stage can be bad to you.                                                

    As a follow-on to Andy's .54, as you [Nasser] are apparently happy to
  use a tool such as a compiler to turn original programming ideas into a
  message that the computer can understand,  why not use a tool such as a
  spell checker to turn original discussion ideas into a message that the
  English-reading world can understand ?

  Frank

To all those who want Nasser to use DECspell:

      Just extract the memo and use it yourself if you can't
      extend your reading skills to encompass Nasser's style.
      I consider his style very entertaining but I wouldn't
      cross the aisle to read a DECspell'd version.  Just like I
      won't watch a Spanish movie with English subtitles.
      
:-)

Dick

    RE: LTNUP::QUODLING

    If you don't like the way he spells, don't read his replies. BUT, what
    does this have to do with DONUTS anyway?????

    I am real tired of all these self-appointed English teachers, in this
    file.... BUT, that in and of itself is not about DONUTS... Nor should I
    impose my dislike on the noting public..

    PLEASE....! TAKE A CHILL PILL..! If something as "small" as spelling
    annoys you that much, what does a REAL problem cause you and your
    ulcer. Let us worry about some REAL problems in this life. Life is to
    short to worry about the small stuff. 
    
    HAVE A NICE DAY...	DISPITE THE SPELLING!
    
    Bob G.
    

I don't like the way you're all spelling doughnuts.

    BUT.... that is how Dunkin spells DONUTS...!!! 8^)
    
    Bob G.
    

re .61:

Precisely -- the topic's title is misspelled.  Where are the trademark police
when you really need them.

BTW, installing DECspell is not as easy as it seems.  I looked in both the
VIA::DECSPELL and FDCV14::EASYNET_KITS and nobody seems to know where the
official network kit is.  Does anybody own this product?

    i suspects it is owned by the langauges and tools folk, because it
    had to do with languages and such, the langauges and tools engineers
    they sit down in ZKO2 ZKO1 near the cafeteria , i'll walk over today 
    and look for someone in that area who looks like a langauges engineer
    when i go to lunch and ask for sure, they are very good and well know 
    about these things, and well call again and confirm.
    
    thank you
    /nasser

re .59 
    I'm sorry, but this is the Digital conference, and I believe that
    correct and professional communication is the responsibility of all of
    us, whether we be directly involved in customer contact or not. Granted
    we all make the odd typing mistake and will occasionally guess at the
    correct spelling of a word, when we realy should refer to a dictionary,
    bu in the Case of our esteemed colleague, Nasser, it would appear that
    a more concerted effort is required. My criticism was constructive,
    unlike "Take a chill Pill" approach. I'll read each and every reply
    that suits me, and if someone hasn't defined a point of debate clearly,
    I will point it out to them, equally, if the debate becomes bogged down
    because the grammar and spelling makes the argument incoherent, then I
    will say so.
    
    And it's Despite, not Dispite.
    
re .60
    
    Hear, hear. I pulled into a Dunkin' Donuts for a coffee this morning,
    and they want people to work nites. Not nights, but nites.
    
    re .61
    
    The DECspell kit, should be on the Consolidated Distribution CDroms. It
    was the last time I installed it.
    
    Peter Q.
    

    re .63
    
    Nasser, how do you tell what a Languages and Tools Engineer looks like?
    I have never been able to discern any specifically identifiable visual
    characteristics about them (Well, at least not any that I could repeat
    in public without threat of discriminiation :-) ).
    
    The GRAMMAR_CHECKER and DECSPELL nots conferences on VIA:: would be a
    good starting point. I believe both products are effectivly in
    retirement now.
    
    q
    

>    and they want people to work nites.

	Should that be werk nites?

    
    re .65
    
    	If you are an American, it may not be possible for you to visually
    	identify a Language Engineer, however I suspect that Nasser is not
    	of US origin, therefore it is distinctly possible that he can.
    
    	I remember when I was based in Frankfurt, Germany and the locals
    	could identify Americans in civilian clothes about 3 blocks
    	distance, even although they and the local population were mostly
    	Male, White, Caucasians.
    
    	:-)
    
    	N.

    RE: .64
    
    >    And it's Despite, not Dispite.
    
    Well that blows the "USE SPELL CHECKER" theory all to H***, cause I ran
    that reply through spell checker, just before I finished the reply.....
    
    BTW, your constant "corrective attitude" is annoying, in and of itself!
    
    Bob G. (WHO BE HUMAN, MAKING HUMAN ERRORS) 
    
    NOW, LET'S GET BACK TO "DONUTS"
    

    ... that there are at least THREE obvious typos of a sort that would be
    caught by a spell-checker in .65 ...
    
    "Quis Correctiet Ipsos Correctiores," if I may bastardize some Latin...
    
    And now, having apologized for deepening this rathole with an ablative
    absolute, I return this discussion to your collective control.  Ha Ha... :-)

As I said in my note requesting the location of the DECSPELL network kit,
I looked in the DECSPELL conference and nobody seemed to know where the
network kit was.  If it's in retirement, how can it be on the CONDIST CDROM?

    Having seen Beeb 1 last night at 8 o'clock Mr Abbasi is an even bigger
    plonker than Rodney.

    what is a plonker means , please ?
    is it good to be a plonker?
    thank you much,
    /nasser

    Re: .-1
    
    a simple rule:
    
    if you don't understand it, then its bad

    well, i looked at all the dictionaries i have and cant find the word
    plonker in it, iam starting to have some strange feelings about this word
    and i dont like what i think it might mean. 
    
    so i like to ask herbys the moderators of this file in their
    next group meeting to consider my requests that they delete note
    1806.71 by mr arrods doolabh claiming that iam a plonker , since
    iam definitly iam not one, and i never been a plonker befor in my life.
    
    i dont like it when someone tell iam something and espicialy when
    iam not it, and i dont know what it is either they are telling iam to be.
    
    thank you moderators for your quick actions iam sure on this matters at 
    hand.
    
    /nasser

    Well Nasser the word is fairly modern slang, so it would only be in a
    specialised dictionary. 

    A kind definition of the word plonker would be "someone who is totally
    innocent and as yet uncorrupted by the harsh realities of life."

    I trust this helps.

    Jamie, who has in his time been called many things worse than a plonker.

    
    RE.75
    
    	I Think that if the  definition given is correct, then why should
    	.74 object to being a Plonker.
    
    	Sometimes when I have attended meetings, some of Digital's Senior
    	Managers have been referred to as Plonkers, and I an told that one
    	Ex VP was also one..
    
    	Perhaps you need to be one to get a High Position.
    
    	:-)
    	

    i objected because mr eggers, whome i highly regards his opnions on
    these maters, said it is bad to be a plonker, but a next caller said it 
    is not too bad to be caled a plonker, and now .-1 says it is bad to be a 
    plonker only if you are a big manager?
    
    iam totaly confused now, never mind, it does not really matter any mores .
    
    thank you very much,
    /nasser

    I certainly have gotten a good laugh out of this note.  The more I
    read, the more I figured "these guys MUST be kidding".  Poor Nasser.
    Don't be too concerned.  I was born and brought up in this country and
    I had no idea what a "plonker" was either (new one on me).
    What ever happened to the Dunkin' Donuts discussion?
    
    Marie

   Re:      <<< Note 1806.78 by HUMANE::PROXY::HOPKINS "All one race - Human" >>>

We all exercise our sense of humor in our idiosyncratic ways.
Don't feel too sorry for Nasser.  He has twitted us all
repeatedly.  Fair's fair.

Dick

    I said it was bad to be a plonker?  Really?  Where? I don't know what a
    plonker is either, and I haven't received an answer yet from the noter
    who first posted the word in this topic.

    It's nice to see that my opinions are so highly respected, but in this
    case the only opinion I offered was that if you don't know the meaning,
    then something negative is very likely going on.  I still believe that,
    even though I don't know what a plonker is.  I'll even offer odds that
    plonker is not a positive description.  I suspect, but don't know, that
    the "totally naive and innocent" definition in an earlier note is a
    wonderful euphemism.

    This is a great discussion, far better than the original topic. Why
    can't we do these more often.	:-)

    sorry mr eggers, i did not mean to put the words in your mouth ,
    what i cant beleive for the life of my day that in a big company like
    digital, the second computer company in the whole world, and all 
    the experts and smart peoples we have, and know one knows what a plonker 
    is and if it bad to be a plonker or not.
    
    and why have not the moderators responded to me yet?
    
    never minds, i dont care any more about this, it is too late to fix,
    the damage is allready done, whatever it is..
    
    /naser
    

    Is it fair to say that this topic has been doughnut-holed?
    jc

    Nasser,
    Relying on anyone in this conference to be your interpreter of modern
    slang is like relying on Congress to do the right thing!
    
    Ken

English as she is spoke
-----------------------

This being a family notesfile, I can't be explicit about 
describing the meaning of "plonker".  Suffice it to
say that BEING a big plonker is usually considered bad,
but HAVING a big plonker...

    I should have guessed.	:-(

    "Plonker" *must* be a British term,hence you won't find this in *any*
    dictionary.
    
    Ken

                                 plonkers ARISE!

    Topic 954 in thebay::joyoflex has some definitions of plonk and
    plonker.

    "Plonker" is a term popularised by a TV series in the UK calleds "Only
    Fools and Horses".
    
    As with the word "naff", it was used in place of 'real' swear words.
    
    /a

>    "Plonker" *must* be a British term,hence you won't find this in *any*
>    dictionary.

        I assume by `*any* dictionary' I assume you mean `any cheap
        dictionary restricted to the American subset of the English
        language'.  I looked in the Oxford English Dictionary and found
        definitions for three noun forms of `plonk' as well as `plonked'
        and `plonker'.  I also looked in `The Random House Dictionary of
        the English Language', an American dictionary, and found `plonk'.

        					B.J.

    >    I assume by `*any* dictionary' I assume you mean `any cheap
    >    dictionary restricted to the American subset of the English
    
    what do you means by this? american english is not cheap !! it is
    very rich language too, more words in it than the british english
    i bet .
    
    we in the digital notes file commmunity talk only american english,
    so please no one should use british english from now on here, if 
    it is not american english, it is not english.
    
    i think the moderators should write this rule in the official notes
    files rule book, and deletes any note that do not use the american
    english language.
    
    thank you very much,
    /nasser 

    
    > talk only american english,
    >    so please no one should use british english from now on here
    
    I wouldn't lower myself that far :-)
    
    > more words in it than the british english i bet .
    
    You'd loose :-)
    
    As previously stated...american English is a SUBSET of English...

    
    Re .91
    
    	If American English had more Words than British English, how come
    	"Plonker" is not there
    
    	:-)
    

>          <<< Note 1806.91 by STAR::ABBASI "i^(-i) = SQRT(exp(PI))" >>>
>                  -< american english is not cheap !! no way >-

>    what do you means by this? american english is not cheap !! it is
>    very rich language too, more words in it than the british english
>    i bet .
 
Havers!
   
>    we in the digital notes file commmunity talk only american english,
>    so please no one should use british english from now on here, if 
>    it is not american english, it is not english.
    
>    i think the moderators should write this rule in the official notes
>    files rule book, and deletes any note that do not use the american
>    english language.
    
Is this note supposed to be serious or have Americans started to cotton
onto the British speciality of winding up foreigners, (or should that be 
aliens?)

Craig.

        Re: .91

>    i think the moderators should write this rule in the official notes
>    files rule book, and deletes any note that do not use the american
>    english language.

        Nasser, are you sure this wouldn't cause all of your notes to be
        deleted?  Your grammar and capitalization don't quite fit the
        rules of American English.  Be careful what you ask for.  :-)

        					B.J.

English is the native language for many countries, including England, but 
neither Jamaican English, nor American English, nor South African English, nor
Guyanan English, nor Canadian English, nor English English is a subset of any of
the others.  

And what they talk in Alabama is not a subset of what they talk in Glasgow.

    American English is an extended subset of English English.
    
    	Andrew.

>    American English is an extended subset of English English.
    
Right on. Both flavours evolve.
								- Ian W.

    Hey,you British types! Will you knock off this crazy habit of adding a
    "u" to everything? The word is "flavor" not "flavour"...the word is
    "color" not "colour"...for pete's sake,stop it!
    
    Ken (not a Britisher)

    
    The Word is "Donut" not "Doughnut"
    
    :-)
    

My American dictionary says a "subset" is a "a set each of whose elements is an
element of an inclusive set".  I've never studied set theory, but "extended
subset" sounds suspiciously like "American English is a distinct form of
English".

English is our language too.  We've spoken it here since 1620 (which is as
long as we've been here) and we've done at least as much as the English have 
to contribute to its spread.

Incidentally, it was Noah Webster who got rid of the "u" in all those words.
This Noah Webster, an American, is one of two towering figures in regularizing
and settling the English language.  The other, who preceded him by about 
50 years, was Brit Samuel Johnson.  

    
    ooops!! After reading .101, I realize it should be "Dunkin Dognuts"
    if only the "u" is missing.
    
    Do they taste anything like  "Rocky Mountain Oysters"?
    :-)

    i went home tonite thinking about this issue and what some callers
    said about amercian english is subset of british english.
    
    then around the corner near my apt, i relized there is a hole in this
    observations.
    
    we in the america are about 250 millions and in british only 2.5 millions 
    peoples (i might be off a bit here, iam not too sure about this number,
    any way the ideas remains), so it dont make sense that 250 millions will 
    get by one a smaller vocabularly than only 2.5 millions ! 
    
    it just dont make sense !
    
    more peoples have more problems and issues to solve than 2.5 millions ,
    right? so this means they need more words than smaller number of
    peoples , to express themselves and the more problems and issues and
    more things they have to deal with, hence by logical reasoning alone , 
    it means that americans english vocabularly is bigger than the british 
    ones to meet the higher demands of more peoples !
    
    i bet no one have thought about this from this angle befor me.
    
    any way, i dont want to drag this issues to mute and to flip over, i just 
    thought i just share this thought with my fellow DECes.
    
    we can go back to original subjects.
    
    good night and best regards,
    /nasser

    Wrong again, Nasser. 

    The argument of numbers of people speaking a "language" is irrelevant. 
   
    However, if you must... The British Isles, have a population of around
    60 Million people, not 2.5 Million. Add to this the population of
    Australia, South Africa, and many other member countries of the British
    commonwealth, and you soon start to see a significant number,
    particularly when you realize  that a significant proportion of the
    population of the United states also do not speak English  as their
    primary language, or are functionally illiterate.
    
    Another point of interest. The average English speaking individual uses
    a day to day vocabulary over only about 3000 words. The English
    language has in the vicinity of around 100,000 words of which only a
    small percentage (probably only a hundred or two) have been "modified"
    for American use.

    The suggestion that you make that a larger population requires a larger
    vocabulary is a fallacy. American's do have a quaint habit of finding
    names for everything, but the population in general, aided by the
    media, are keeping the growth of the language at bay.

    Peter Q

    i dont believe this ! i thought i was only weired person not sitting 
    watching the silly oscars tonite
    i think that peter Q makes a good point, i did not
    releize that british peoples were so many , and his numbers about the
    words statistics i must admit has damaged my theory a little bit,
    but i still think that more peoples need more words in general. i agree
    with you , this is hard to proof.
    
    to mr kailkow, i have a donuttes vocher from dunketts donuttes, if you mail
    me you inter-zonal digital office address and i mail the vocher , you get 1 
    dollars off if you buy a dozen, any flavourse it says.
    
    thank you very much,
    /nasser

    Well English in its many and varied forms, including Nasser's, is the
    world's second most used language in the world. (Canton Chinese has
    more users but they are mainly confined to China.) So it is not really
    surprising that English has many variations. However I feel that I must
    point out to Nasser that Americans do not represent the majority of the
    world's users of the language.
    
    As to the number of words in the language, English has the most, not
    because more people use it, but because of it's origin. It is a mixture
    of many languages and tends to have several words for things, each
    having its source in a different language. However compared to the
    other major European languages it is the most concise. You can say more
    with fewer words in English.       

    The Oxford English Dictionary ran to 17 volumes in its initial version
    published in 1935 and since then a massive appendix has been added. I
    don't know how many volumes the second edition runs to. How many
    volumes does the definitive dictionary of American English run to? I
    doubt if it is bigger than the O.E.D.

    Our American users of English made a half hearted attempt at improving
    the spelling mainly by removing spurious "u" and playing about with
    double and single "l"s. However they didn't go far enough as an example
    look at what they did to the word "neighbour".

    The population figures were slightly out. Here are the 1986 estimates.

    England and Wales	50,075,000
    Scotland		 5,121,000
    Northern Ireland	 1,575,200
    			----------
    Total UK		56,771,200

    The 1989 estimate for the USA population was 248,800,000.

    Jamie.
            

I'm not sure the removal of the 'U' was an american act; old english didn't
have the 'u's in either if I remember Chaucer correctly.

The comment on brevity is correct. When we translate DECdirect catalogues
here into French, German, Spanish, Italian etc you normally see the same
page real estate carrying 1/3 less meaningful text.

								- Ian W.

    
    re .108
    
    The 30% Increase is actually beneficial to Digital in the  Countries
    where the languages are usesd as it means we can sell more Storage
    Products like Disks./Tapes.
    
    Also, the Local PTT's benefit as the lines are in use longer for
    data transmission purposes.
    
    Perhaps we should make German the Common Digital language.
    
    If we want things to be more concise, then Arabic, however we would
    need to have the Disks rotate the other way.
     
    :-)
    

The definition of a PLONKER:

For the Americans to understand the real meaning of a PLONKER I would be well 
justified in saying "Take Dan Quayle" as an example.

From the Oxford Dictionary :-

PLONKER - Idiot, deriving from Plonk.

PLONK - 2 meanings - 1. To drop or be dropped, esp. heavily: he plonked the
                        money on the table.

                     2. Alcoholic drink, usually wine, esp. of inferior
                        quality.

For anyone wanting to know whether they are PLONKERS or not you can write to:-

MR DEREK TROTTER
c/o TROTTER INTERNATIONAL TRADING CO (TITCo) LTD
JULIUS NYERERE ESTATE
NELSON MANDELA HOUSE
PECKHAM
LONDON
UNITED KINGDOM

Mr. Trotter would appreciate a stamped addressed envelope for any prompt 
replies.

    Re: .109
    
    I remember a conversation once with a German engineer who was a
    student of American history.  He told me that in the early days
    of settlement the American founding fathers, being a mix of
    European nationalities, decided to hold a referendum of what the
    official language of America should be.
    
    As we now know the result favoured English but only because three
    German speaking voters were ill and couldn't vote!
    
    Now as to the reliability of the story, I leave that to your individual
    judgement  :^)
    
    Calvin
     

    Re .111

    Actually it is a load of tripe. There once was talk of having a
    referendum but I don't think it really came to the vote. However
    Hitler's propaganda machine converted it into that sort of tale to
    convince Germans that America would never go to war with Germany, "why
    but for a few votes they would all be speaking German, how could they."

    Interesting how stories spread.

    Jamie.

    However, I seem to recall, that Lowell, MA tried to change the primary
    language from english to spanish in their school system.
    
    q
    

re: .110

>The definition of a PLONKER:

>PLONKER - Idiot, deriving from Plonk.

>For anyone wanting to know whether they are PLONKERS or not you can write to:-

>MR DEREK TROTTER
>c/o TROTTER INTERNATIONAL TRADING CO (TITCo) LTD
>JULIUS NYERERE ESTATE
>NELSON MANDELA HOUSE
>PECKHAM
>LONDON
>UNITED KINGDOM
>
>Mr. Trotter would appreciate a stamped addressed envelope for any prompt 
>replies.

If I did this then I would be a "Plonker" by the above definition.
As I would be sending to England a self addressed envelope using U.S. stamps.
Now I don't know for sure but, I believe that U.S. stamps would not be valid
for use in the British postal system.

- George

re .113:

Bzzzt!  A prominent (though ideosyncratic) member of the Lowell school board
is a supporter of the idea of English as the official language of Massachusetts
and the United States (neither of which has an official language).  I don't
know if accusations such as that in .113 were part of the acrimonious debate,
but it wouldn't surprise me.  I suspect that the number of Khmer speakers
exceeds the number of Spanish speakers in the Lowell schools.

    i gets the feeling that our friends across the pond thing that we
    in america are lunitics or something like that to fall for this trick.
    
    we are very smart here in america, much smarter than what you think.
    
    so, please stop it right now !!
    
    thank you very much,
    /nasser

    re .117
    <we are very smart in america, much smarter than you think>
    
    Mmm... that's a relief !
    
    :-)
    
    John

    
    
    
    
    In the states, a plonker is a type of doughnut.
    Mr. Abassi was just checking on the spelling before
    he entered it in his personal dictionary.
    
    :-)
      Ken
    

    Okay, everyone, let's go to our nearest Dunkin" Do???ts and ask for a
    "plonker" and see what happens...
    
    	:-)
    Peter

We all need some humor in these stressful times, but this has gotten completely
off any relevance to the way we work at Digital.

If anyone wants to make a relevant reply, send me mail and I'll unwrite-lock
the topic.

Bob - Co-moderator DIGITAL